Blog Comments

  1. freelight's Avatar
    Hi Freelight,
    Thanks for your response. I am a very language oriented person but as I age am finding language to be inadequate to the task of expressing my sense of union with life and the Creator of life.
    Hi pat,....yes,..but 'language' is our primary tool for conveying ideas, communicating, sharing knowledge, translating concepts, etc. At best in 'theology', words serve as 'pointers', symbols, descriptions.

    I struggle with how little we know of each other or ourselves(myself) and yet we presume to judge.
    We can help but judge to some degree as a natural reflex, but are called to be careful of our judgments, withholding such, until more light, wisdom, genuine discernment is afforded us. Its a delicate thing, as we would hope to be true arbiters of knowledge. Here is where surrender to Spirit is essential, if we would be portals of love.

    It is necessary while living in society to have some standard of normative behavior but beyond that we waste our time and risk doing immense harm to one another.
    The challenge of society, community and where we are going, what is our true values? Much to consider and put into practice to effect real change.

    When I really look into the eyes of another person I usually see Light. But not always.
    Its always a blessing to have 'light meet light', an inner luminosity. It encourages life. If we see one with darkness, we can only hope to shine the light.

    bless u,


    paul
  2. bybee's Avatar
    Hi Freelight,
    Thanks for your response. I am a very language oriented person but as I age am finding language to be inadequate to the task of expressing my sense of union with life and the Creator of life.
    I struggle with how little we know of each other or ourselves(myself) and yet we presume to judge. It is necessary while living in society to have some standard of normative behavior but beyond that we waste our time and risk doing immense harm to one another.
    When I really look into the eyes of another person I usually see Light. But not always.
  3. freelight's Avatar
    Hi pat,

    Thank you

    Let me qualify up front, that I use the term 'universalist' in its pure sense, as one who accepts the universality of 'God', 'truth', 'Spirit' and recognizes truth in all religious traditions and teachings that do indeed have true meanings and values to share that reflect the nature and consistency of true reality, and its relative forms.

    I also have often taken a more 'universalist' position on 'soteriology', as its typically defined as one who believes that all souls will ultimately be reunited with God, however have also expounded on and explore the 'soul-death' (annihilationst position), and am still inbetween the two, but my eternal optimism favors the former. However, I can respect the latter, only if God has allowed for soul-death, the dis-integration and de-struction of individual existence. - I've explored the metaphysics involved with this process, so keep this open for further elaboration

    Thanks for being a patron of mutual respect and courtesy as we share our points of view; to me its all about learning and 'creative dialogue', maximizing the art of language to constructive ends, ultimately expanding our consciousness for the better. After all, what is Life about?


    Namaste!


    paulie
  4. bybee's Avatar
    Hi Freelight, I always read your comments. In some regards I consider myself a Universalist. All shall be saved or perhaps retained? that wish to be saved. What shall become of the unsaved? Can there ultimately be the choice to not be?
    I've thought of a double infinity symbol but realized that the infinity symbol is simply a looping circle. peace, pat
  5. curtisloew's Avatar
    i think that the 'mysterious' aspects to 'God' are a great point for discussion! The true knowability is severely limited in so many ways. Great extract.

    Ps, I can't seem to leave visitor messages!
  6. John Mortimer's Avatar
    Quote:
    Does the original structure of the I AM disentegrate or is it more the 'ego-self' operates within a false structure which is 'unreal' and so is 'dis-integrated' in nature already?


    The I AM Presence creates the soul-vehicle by:
    1. designing it in the Spiritual Realm
    2. releasing the design to the Conscious You

    (Bear in mind that the Conscious You is the Conscious You of the I AM Presence as well as the soul)

    So the Conscious You brings the original soul-vehicle into existence by:
    1. providing the matter light for the structures
    2. projecting the design upon the matter light

    The Conscious You then ditributes ItSelf between the I AM Presence and the soul in a way that can be envisioned as a figure-8 flow, as described by Mother Mary.
    So, after the soul is created:
    The Alpha manifestation of the Conscious You is the I AM Presence in the Spiritual realm
    The Omega manifestation of the Conscious You is the soul consciousness in the material realm

    The Conscious You flows between the Spiritual realm and the material realm, maintaining Its eternal infinity at the nexus point of the figure-8 flow.

    The original structure of the soul-vehicle can now expand and grow OR it can experience the beginning of a real process of disintegration, depending on the consciousness of the soul. The disintegration is a long process, (over many lifetimes), but it is existential as well as experiential. It is not necessarily a case of either/or... there can be expansion & growth and disintegration observed in any given time frame.


    Quote:
    Previous acts or karmic over-lays may seem to affect our 'conscience' or its ability to react or 'repent', but how much, I'm not sure. - can the conscience be recovered/restored by Love?


    Most assuredly.

    Quote:
    - and is there a 'point of no-return' after a final choice of 'self-destruction' is 'sealed' as it were, and the soul undergoes a final death of sorts? (the second death).


    Not really... the Second Death is always consciously chosen by the soul. Here is another quote of mine from BeingMoreIAM:
    because of the eternal reality of the Conscious You the indirect connection to the I AM Presence can never be lost so long as the soul exists. That's why Jesus has made it clear that before the second death, a soul will always be able to perceive exactly what the God-reality of it's situation is. If a soul passes into the second death it is always because it chooses that option... the second death is never imposed as some sort of ultimate punishment.

    A soul such as Hitler or Lucifer would choose the option because:
    1. the prospects for any future embodiment are too dismal to realistically entertain, given the karmic returns due
    2. the genuine desire for non-being due to the hatred of the realization that existence is always IN God
    3. because the defiance-to-the-end -"I'd rather not exist at all, than have to exist with you!" - gesture is a gratifying demonstration of utter loathing and contempt for all that is Divine

    A soul such as Geraldine Innocente might choose the second death because a profound soul-tiredness leads to the assessment that it would be better to allow the I AM Presence to create a new soul to replace the current one and start again from scratch with a totally clean sheet, as it were.


    Quote:
    - I'd like to hold out a universal salvation for all, where LOVE ultimately prevails and divine Will triumphs, but if free will does have power to forfeit the life-potential of an individual life-stream, then it may be so.


    Yes, I understand... hopefully the quote above helps?

    Quote:
    But I'm not sure the convoluted ego can affect the original integrity(reality) of the I Am's original infrastrucure within the soul's constitution. The Hindu view is that the 'atman' is essentially the same as 'Brahman' so ever maintains its original purity, no matter the distortion of the 'ego', whose nature anyways is 'illusory'.


    Ironically, it is precisely because the atman IS of the same essence as Brahman that the ego can indeed affect the energetic and informational structure of the soul IF the soul consciousness identifies with the individualized duality consciousness that constitutes the ego. The power of the soul consciousness is so great that its flame can either warm, comfort and illuminate OR it can become a wildfire of destruction.

    Quote:
    I suppose itís most interesting how we designate or appropriate 'consciousness' in its various modifications or 'qualities' within whatever interface or context they exist or function. How we identify these will vary in our applied schools, so still tinkering a bit with the 'Conscious You' as being a part of the entire conscious experience of the soul's sojourn. On a general level I tend to Identify as Consciousness itself,....so this in the ascended master schools will be mediated thru the higher I Am Presence, Holy Christ Self (Higher Self serving as mediator) and the evolving soul in physical form.


    The Conscious You can identify as consciousness itself... for it IS.


    Quote:
    In any case,...blessings to your I Am Presence !


    ...and to yours!
  7. freelight's Avatar
    I'd really like your thoughts on the following statement:

    The I AM Presence is a direct and immediate presence in the Spiritual realm only; it is an indirect presence in the Material realm, mediated by the Conscious You.

    By way of what is (hopefully) an elucidating reference, I will paste here part of a response I gave to dear Janise at BeingMoreIAM...

    "This is an important question as to where conscience comes from and the sense of right and wrong.

    The soul-vehicle is initially created by the I AM Presence and therefore has the character of the Presence woven into the energetic and informational structure of the soul. As the embodied soul consciousness moves along in its journey - creatively making decisions - it alters the structure of the soul-vehicle.
    Initially, "conscience", is simply one informational aspect of the soul-vehicle in which the embodied consciousness resides. The decisions made by the embodied soul consciousness simply reflect the nature of the soul-vehicle.
    The question becomes, after many embodiments, how much of the original structure created by the I AM Presence remains... hopefully much and hopefully much that is a creative and progressive expansion of that original structure.
    Sadly - for those, such as ourselves, who took on the initiation of the duality consciousness before we were ready for it - the creation of an individualized duality consciousness, (which is what the ego is), produces the reverse process... the disintegration of the original structure.
    Hi John,

    Does the original structure of the I AM disentegrate or is it more the 'ego-self' operates within a false structure which is 'unreal' and so is 'dis-integrated' in nature already?

    Thus the conscience of an individual can become completely warped. There were many Nazis, for example, who would genuinely have experienced a "bad conscience" if they had not actively persecuted Jews in the 1930s & 40s. There are souls who develop a strong theft habit and actually experience a "bad conscience" when they have the opportunity to steal but don't take that opportunity.
    Previous acts or karmic over-lays may seem to affect our 'conscience' or its ability to react or 'repent', but how much, I'm not sure. - can the conscience be recovered/restored by Love? - and is there a 'point of no-return' after a final choice of 'self-destruction' is 'sealed' as it were, and the soul undergoes a final death of sorts? (the second death). - I'd like to hold out a universal salvation for all, where LOVE ultimately prevails and divine Will triumphs, but if free will does have power to forfeit the life-potential of an individual life-stream, then it may be so.


    So the I AM Presence does exert an upward influence... but only by means of the degree of integrity of the original soul structure. (This applies not only to conscience, of course, but also to the innate drive toward self transcendence).
    The dualistic consciousness of the ego could therefore utterly destroy a soul simply through the process of deconstructing every last nuance of the the original soul design.
    But I'm not sure the convoluted ego can affect the original integrity(reality) of the I Am's original infrastrucure within the soul's constitution. The Hindu view is that the 'atman' is essentially the same as 'Brahman' so ever maintains its original purity, no matter the distortion of the 'ego', whose nature anyways is 'illusory'.

    The Conscious You provides the link between the soul, (in whatever state), and the I AM Presence. The Conscious You provides immediate access to infinity and God.
    I suppose its most interesting how we designate or appropriate 'consciousness' in its various modifications or 'qualities' within whatever interface or context they exist or function. How we identify these will vary in our applied schools, so still tinkering a bit with the 'Conscious You' as being a part of the entire conscious experience of the soul's sojourn. On a general level I tend to Identify as Consciousness itself,....so this in the ascended master schools will be mediated thru the higher I Am Presence, Holy Christ Self (Higher Self serving as mediator) and the evolving soul in physical form.

    "I Am Presence" chart.

    Hindu Version


    Just a few dimensional construct issues I presume as 'consciousness' interprets itself or 'relays' thru the various templates.

    In any case,...blessings to your I Am Presence !



    pj
  8. John Mortimer's Avatar
    Hi Paul,

    There are some fundamentally important anthropological issues being addressed here.

    Just for clarification - when I use the expression "material realm/universe/world" I always mean the entire spectrum below the Spiritual realm. i.e. Physical, Emotional, Mental, Identity.

    I'd really like your thoughts on the following statement:

    The I AM Presence is a direct and immediate presence in the Spiritual realm only; it is an indirect presence in the Material realm, mediated by the Conscious You.

    By way of what is (hopefully) an elucidating reference, I will paste here part of a response I gave to dear Janise at BeingMoreIAM...

    "This is an important question as to where conscience comes from and the sense of right and wrong.

    The soul-vehicle is initially created by the I AM Presence and therefore has the character of the Presence woven into the energetic and informational structure of the soul. As the embodied soul consciousness moves along in its journey - creatively making decisions - it alters the structure of the soul-vehicle.
    Initially, "conscience", is simply one informational aspect of the soul-vehicle in which the embodied consciousness resides. The decisions made by the embodied soul consciousness simply reflect the nature of the soul-vehicle.
    The question becomes, after many embodiments, how much of the original structure created by the I AM Presence remains... hopefully much and hopefully much that is a creative and progressive expansion of that original structure.
    Sadly - for those, such as ourselves, who took on the initiation of the duality consciousness before we were ready for it - the creation of an individualized duality consciousness, (which is what the ego is), produces the reverse process... the disintegration of the original structure.
    Thus the conscience of an individual can become completely warped. There were many Nazis, for example, who would genuinely have experienced a "bad conscience" if they had not actively persecuted Jews in the 1930s & 40s. There are souls who develop a strong theft habit and actually experience a "bad conscience" when they have the opportunity to steal but don't take that opportunity.
    So the I AM Presence does exert an upward influence... but only by means of the degree of integrity of the original soul structure. (This applies not only to conscience, of course, but also to the innate drive toward self transcendence).
    The dualistic consciousness of the ego could therefore utterly destroy a soul simply through the process of deconstructing every last nuance of the the original soul design. The Conscious You provides the link between the soul, (in whatever state), and the I AM Presence. The Conscious You provides immediate access to infinity and God.
    Oh, how grateful we should be - how ready to praise - God for the marvelous design of His Creation.... and how fitting it is to bless that Creation, Who is our Divine Mother!"


    Btw... I feel a bit pompous quoting myself as an elucidating reference, but I honestly am not aware of anyone else who has this perspective at this time.
  9. freelight's Avatar
    Hi John,

    I understand the idea of a 'God-fragment' or a 'Father-fragment' as indwelling the mind of all qualified evolving mortals is 'dualistic', yet the Universal Father is ever One Unified Being, and only individes/distributes himself within individual life expressions. The Urantia Papers uses dualistic terms for our own dimensional understanding and point-reference. That infinite God-presence within is the Thought-Adjuster (Father-fragment, Mytstery-monitor, God-flame)...also referenced as the 'I Am' presence. So, we are touching on slight perspective naunces of the same 'thing', within our reference points, which will be resolved with further defining

    The 'Conscious You' concept may need further clarification, beyond it merely being the Identity and Light of Pure-God-Consciousness, which is slighly modified in the 'I Am' Presence within the evolving soul. I agree the 'soul' is an 'animate interface', and the physical body is a part of that 'soul' (at least while incarnated). Since All pertaining to the soul is "consciousness" we are articulating differing aspects or qualities of consciousness. Essentially we have shared the same things, although varying in some contextual-perspectives of 'process'.

    We can continue here, or summarize and link to this sharing, then continue in my I Am thread, for easier dialogue relay.


    pj
  10. John Mortimer's Avatar
    Hi again, Paul...

    Having done some more reading in the Urantia revelations I would suggest that what is meant there by , "a fragment of God", correlates most closely with the AM concept of the God-flame. The God-flame is pre-personal and is a consequence of the design of the I AM Presence. However the I AM Presence IS personal, growing and conscious within the limits of the Spiritual Realm. This limitation of consciousness is chosen by the I AM Presence - it is not aware of the lower vibrations of the matter realm, although of course the Conscious You is. The I AM Presence is not aware of the ego and the duality consciousness, but the Conscious You is.
    In a very real sense we can say that we are 2 finite existences in 2 "places" at once. In the Conscious You we are infinite and simply One.
    Furthermore the I AM Presence is beyond the duality of the individual vs collective split - and is thus a polar-dynamic individual collective.
  11. John Mortimer's Avatar
    Hi Paul

    I wanted to comment on your first comment:
    "The I AM Presence is an individual fragment of 'God', further individualized within the soul-complex of the evolving soul, as they inter-relate and converge in evolutional experience and ascension-potential."

    It may be that this comment comes very much from the perspective of the Urantia revelations. I have begun the process of educating myself in that paradigm, but I am still largely ignorant of it at this time.

    Some of the things I will say here may seem to be contradictions of what you state in your comment, but I would make it clear that I am in no way saying, "this is incorrect", or, "you have this wrong"... I'm just going to try to express where my understanding of the concepts seems to differ from yours.

    I understand the I AM Presence to be an individualization of God, rather than an individual fragment of God. The idea of a fragment of God does not ring true to me because it carries with it the idea that God can be fragmented. A fragment is usually associated in my mind with a piece-broken-off...

    You go on to say that the I AM Presence is further individualized when the soul is formed. I see the soul-vehicle as an energetic and informational environment into which the Consciousness of the I AM Presence descends. This environment includes the physical body - and thus I see the physical Body as one facet of the soul.
    I'd be interested in your view of that.

    You say the soul evolves. I would certainly say that it can evolve, but I would also say that it can degenerate and descend in vibration, depending on what the state of the embodied consciousness is.

    I agree that the I AM Presence and the soul inter-relate. This can be all one way, however. There is a continual stream of energy and information that descends from the I AM Presence, via the Conscious You, to the soul. Without this constant down-flow there could be no soul.
    As Mother Mary says in the message, the Omega aspect of the Conscious You in the world of form is the Mother Light itself.
    My understanding is that the flow of the Mother Light represents the talents in Jesus' parable... we can multiply our talents by qualifying the "blank canvass" of the Mother Light in oneness with the Christ Consciousness. Everything we create with the Mother Light and our individual Christ Consciousness is able to ascend back to the I AM Presence, where it is multiplied.
    Many people never qualify the Mother Light with the Christ Consciousness and nothing can ascend back to the I AM Presence to be multiplied. This is when the talent is "hidden in the earth". So for a soul to continue in embodiment there will always be a down-flow but not necessarily an up-flow.

    There IS however a point of convergence... and that is the Conscious You.
  12. freelight's Avatar
    Indeed,...spirituality, theology, philosophical exploration...all requires the appropriate investment of time, meditation, which alone produces the results of discovery and experience. Those not willing or inspired to ask, seek and knock...cannot receive, find or discover. Those alive to the Spirit's calling pave the way forward. Some things must be 'earned' in life, as this is justice and according to universal laws.
  13. Yazichestvo's Avatar
    I like your tying this in with "sacrifice", and it helps me more fully appreciate the overall meaning. Even the ancients were aware that an oblation poured onto the ground was not literally physically whisked off to its recipient. Old writings have referred to it as holy wastefulness- it is the personal act of release that counts, not where it goes.

    I think what keeps many people from being spiritual in these days are the things that many people in this age can't bear to sacrifice; time and thought. You have to devote a lot of time and thought to understanding and forming any theology. In this era, both your wristwatch and your brain are taxed by every day demands, and I notice sometimes how much I give of myself to just reading things, and forming coherent ideas from what I find. How many take such studies upon themselves today? Still, if you do, you become a more complete person overall.
  14. freelight's Avatar
    In the uncharted and pre-creative space of Light, we draw, figure and determine thru freedom of choice, our directives in the unfolding dimensions before us. The horizon of eternity is therefore ever open, the paramaters of Infinity ever expanding.
  15. freelight's Avatar
    ~*~*~

    Indeed,...most wonderful it is, that our mind cannot be seperate from the One Universal God-Mind, it being its derivative. We may have a limited finite scope of individualized consciousness, but its source, substance and infinite potential is 'God'.

    The 'purification' is the process of recognizing, coordinating, integrating the mind's awareness back into its innate, original and divine Source, thru renewing and programming it with truth. - also recognizing what is of the illusory ego-self, and accepting one's true Self, in divine Sonship. Various methods may be used all towards purification, renewing the mind, affirmations/prayer, towards Self-Realization.



    pj
  16. John Mortimer's Avatar
    The power of mind itself can inspire us to purify our individual minds... how wonderful then to contemplate the truth that our individual minds are not separated in any essential way from the One Universal Cosmic Mind!
    But why then, (given no essential separation), is purification necessary? From whence came the pollution?
  17. freelight's Avatar
    Hi 4string,

    The fundamental principle in 'The Secret' is the law of attraction, however.... this commentary is showing the productive/creative nature of mind, with the seed-illustrations showing how our thoughts and feelings produce after themselves, as we plant them in our hearts and souls. - especially in prayer and meditation...we sow positive seeds into the soil of our consciousness....and we will reap a harvest...according to the 'kind' of seeds we plant. This is a universal law. We see its reality in the matterial world, so also consider its application in the mental/spiritual world.


    pj
  18. Stripe's Avatar
  19. 4string's Avatar
    Is this something akin to 'the secret' or are you going for something more karmic like the spread of goodwill encourages the continuance of good will?
  20. freelight's Avatar
    ~*~*~

    Ah, 'waffling' - now there's a new concept

    All things are open for one's consideration, as Life is all about discovery. Only by opening one's consciousness, can one consider new ideas, insights and dimensions of any subject.


    pj
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