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beloved57
January 2nd, 2014, 12:42 AM
That the Lord Jesus Christ was a Man before the incarnation and birth out of the virgin Mary, is seen when we carefully weigh the words of John the Baptist here Jn 1:29-31

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.

31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.

Now notice in Vs 30 the phrase "After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me."

The object here is a man, and John states these 3 things about this particular man, That this man comes after him, and is preferred before him, and he [the man] was before him !

Now we know from other scripture that John the Baptist in regards to his physical birth by his Mother, that he is six months older than Jesus and so , in that regard John is not speaking of.Lk 1:34-36

34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

But John does acknowledge that Jesus Christ was a Man before Him.

In fact, when John said the he was preferred before him, that word is the greek word ginomai and means:

I.
to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being

II.
to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen

John knew that The Man Jesus Christ was that Man of God's Right Hand, the Son of Man Ps 80:17

17 Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand, upon the son of man whom thou madest strong for thyself.

Also in connection with that, John knew that Christ, the Man coming as a Bridegroom for His Bride Jn 3:29

He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

Now Jesus was the Man Christ Jesus, the Mediaror between God and Men before the foundation 1 Tim 2:5

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Now for this to be True, Adam , who was the beginning of Men, had to have the Man Christ Jesus as the Mediator between God and Men !

beloved57
January 14th, 2014, 10:40 AM
The Lord Jesus Christ in His Mediator Being 1 Tim 2:5 as the Son of God, did delight in the sons of men [the Election of Grace] before the Creation of the World Prov 8:31

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

I believe this is linked to Pauls comment here Acts 17:26

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

The places and times of the Elect of God had been predetermined, where they would make their dwellings and the time in Human History.

Again, who are these Sons of Men in particular in Prov 8:31 ? We have stated before they are the Elect, but they also are His Members, the Church, in fact they are the members of the Church of the Firstborn which are written in Heaven Heb 12:23

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

The Lord Jesus Christ before all things, existed as the Firstborn of the Church Col 1:17-18

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Whats the Firstborn from the Dead ? This denotes His Resurrection from the dead, but not literally, for He had not yet came into the World, for it was not yet Created, and died, however, Just as He was in the Eternal Purpose slain from the foundation of the World 1 Pet 1:20, Rev 13:8 He was also from the Eternal Purpose the Firstborn from the Dead before all Creation, and the Head of the Church before all Creation.

These are the Ones the Father Loved, Chose them in His Beloved Son, they were gave to Him, those whom He was appointed Surety and Head in behalf of in the Everlasting Covenant. They are those whose Names were Written in the Lambs Book of Life, as His Bride, before the Foundation, that's why He delighted in them Prov 8:31

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

His delight was for them as a Bridegroom for His Bride Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Remember also this Mystery Eph 5:31-32

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Who has more of the Love, tender passionate affection from a Man than His Wife ? Whom more in the Providence of God does God provide for a Mans delight ? Prov 5:18-19

18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.

19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.

Its those He delighted in and Purposed to bring to Glory with Him Heb 2:10

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

beloved57
February 4th, 2014, 01:29 PM
We know that Christ existed First as the Last Adam or Heavenly Man, and that adam the earthy was made after His Image and Likeness, he was patterned after Him who was in Heaven, for that's a Divine principle. Now there is the Adam earthy and Heavenly as per 1 Cor 15:45-49


45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Now please notice verses 46-47 Adam first is natural and earthy and the Last Adam is Spiritual and Heavenly [see Jesus words Jn 8:23 ]

Now Christ is the Creator of Adam earthy Col 1:16

16 For by him [Christ] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him[Christ]:

Now lets look at how we derive this principle of the earthy being patterned after the heavenly Heb 8:4-5

4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Adam was a shadow, a figure of heavenly things !

Heb 9:23-24

23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

And then Paul tells us that Adam was the earthy figure of Him [Christ] to come Rom 5:14

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

This does confirm what is indicated, that the earthy adam was Created by the Heaveny God Man Mediator Christ Jesus, after His Image and Likeness Gen 1:26, for this must be if we follow the rule of pattern laid down in Heb 8:4-5;9:23-24

And that in all things Christ has the preeminence Col 1:18

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Now that would not be true if adam from the ground was a Man before Christ the Mediator !

beloved57
April 15th, 2014, 06:44 AM
Was Jesus Christ Created ? The answer is absolutely Yes,He was Created or we can say He was begotten, that He did have a derived Existence. Now, I already know my enemies are going to use this what i am about to say against me, and claim by it that I deny the Deity of Christ or that He is God, but by no means do i deny that, because Jesus is also 100 % Very God as much as the Father, and within the Divine Essence of the Godhead He as the Father has a underived, uncreated, unbegotten, Self Existence along with the The Holy Ghost as well !

However, there is yet another part of His Being that was Created or derived an Existence out of the Father, hence He has titles like Col 1:15

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

The word firstborn is the greek word prōtotokos and means:

I.the firstborn
A.
of man or beast

B.
of Christ, the first born of all creation

first-born, eldest.

Now the word is actually Two words #1 prōtos which means:

I.
first in time or place
A.
in any succession of things or persons


II.
first in rank
A.
influence, honour

B.
chief

C.
principal


III.
first, at the first

This is why He said to be before all things Col 1:17

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

He existed as God's Creation before all other things that would be Created !

The other word #2 is tiktō and means:

I.to bring forth, bear, produce (fruit from the seed)
A.
of a woman giving birth

B.
of the earth bringing forth its fruits

C.
metaph. to bear, bring forth

He was the very first produced, brought forth !

The word produce itself denotes Creation, for our english dictionary defines it as:

to create, bring forth, or yield offspring, products,

And finally He is said to be the firstborn of every creature, the word creature being the greek word ktisis and means:

I.the act of founding, establishing, building etc
A.
the act of creating, creation

B.
creation i.e. thing created
i.
of individual things, beings, a creature, a creation
a.
anything created

So this verse in Col 1:15 is evidence that in some capacity the Lord Jesus Christ was Created before all things else were Created.

Another verse that collaborates this thought is Rev 3:14

And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Its plain and simple that He is Identifying Himself as the Beginning of the Creation of God, or the Firstborn of Every Creature as in Col 1:15 !

beloved57
April 15th, 2014, 09:35 AM
Now when was Jesus Christ Created and why ? The Lord Jesus Christ was Created before the World began, in order to partake in the Creation of the World, for again, it was made by Him and for Him Col 1:16.

We find that Jesus Christ was Created here Prov 8:22

22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

First I will say that this is Christ the Wisdom of God speaking 1 Cor 1:24

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

And He says the Lord possessed Him in the beginning of His Way, the word possessed here giving us the first hint of Him being a Creation, for its the hebrew word qanah :

get, acquire, create, buy, possess
A.
(Qal)
i.
to get, acquire, obtain
a.
of God originating, creating, redeeming His people

The NIV reads:

"The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;

Thats quite similar to Him being the Firstborn of Creation Col 1:15 where the word firstborn is made up of two greek words, one being tiktō which means:

I.to bring forth, bear, produce (fruit from the seed)
A.
of a woman giving birth

B.
of the earth bringing forth its fruits

C.
metaph. to bear, bring forth

The Holman Christian Standard Bible reads:

The LORD made me at the beginning of His creation, before His works of long ago.

The ISV reads:

"The LORD made me as he began his planning, before his ancient activity commenced.

The NET reads:

The LORD created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago.

The Aramaic Bible in Plain English reads:

“Lord Jehovah created me at the beginning of his creation and from before all of his works.”

The Septuagint reads :

The Lord made me the beginning of his ways for his works.

This is crucial because it establishes the fact that He was Created before all Things to assist in the Work of Creation !

Now I am going to make this point clear, this Character of Jesus Christ being Created, was not His Deity as God, I repeat this has nothing to do with His Being as the Uncreated Word of God Jn 1:1 which is His Deity as God, but this only has to do with His Begotten Sonship and the Mediator Man 1 Tim 2:5 and as the Last Adam and the Head of His Body the Church 1 Cor 15:45-47

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

In this character He was Created with His Bride the Church in Him Col 1:18

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

And that is why when He Created Adam in His Image and Likeness, Adam was Created with His Bride in him, which was Eve, and called their Name Adam Gen 5:1-2

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Thats why Adam was the Head of his wife, even so as it pictured that Christ in Heaven was Created as the Head of His Wife the Church and called Christ !

Hence as there was No Adam without Eve in him, Neither was there No Christ without the Church, His Eve in Him !

I already know this is a Truth that will not be received by the natural man, for it cannot be !

Quantrill
April 16th, 2014, 04:13 AM
Why is Jesus called the Second Man?

Quantrill

beloved57
April 16th, 2014, 05:34 AM
Why is Jesus called the Second Man?

Quantrill

You have evaded all of my two previous posts, and now want me to go into more detail, nothing doing until you respond to what I have already took time to explain and review those points with me ! Thanks !

Caino
April 16th, 2014, 06:55 AM
This may help:

From my religion, the UB revelation.



Self-Distribution of the First Source and Center

(108.4) 10:1.1 It would seem that the Father, back in eternity, inaugurated a policy of profound self-distribution. There is inherent in the selfless, loving, and lovable nature of the Universal Father something which causes him to reserve to himself the exercise of only those powers and that authority which he apparently finds it impossible to delegate or to bestow.

(108.5) 10:1.2 The Universal Father all along has divested himself of every part of himself that was bestowable on any other Creator or creature. He has delegated to his divine Sons and their associated intelligences every power and all authority that could be delegated. He has actually transferred to his Sovereign Sons, in their respective universes, every prerogative of administrative authority that was transferable. In the affairs of a local universe, he has made each Sovereign Creator Son just as perfect, competent, and authoritative as is the Eternal Son in the original and central universe. He has given away, actually bestowed, with the dignity and sanctity of personality possession, all of himself and all of his attributes, everything he possibly could divest himself of, in every way, in every age, in every place, and to every person, and in every universe except that of his central indwelling.

(109.1) 10:1.3 Divine personality is not self-centered; self-distribution and sharing of personality characterize divine freewill selfhood. Creatures crave association with other personal creatures; Creators are moved to share divinity with their universe children; the personality of the Infinite is disclosed as the Universal Father, who shares reality of being and equality of self with two co-ordinate personalities, the Eternal Son and the Conjoint Actor.

(109.2) 10:1.4 For knowledge concerning the Father’s personality and divine attributes we will always be dependent on the revelations of the Eternal Son, for when the conjoint act of creation was effected, when the Third Person of Deity sprang into personality existence and executed the combined concepts of his divine parents, the Father ceased to exist as the unqualified personality. With the coming into being of the Conjoint Actor and the materialization of the central core of creation, certain eternal changes took place. God gave himself as an absolute personality to his Eternal Son. Thus does the Father bestow the “personality of infinity” upon his only-begotten Son, while they both bestow the “conjoint personality” of their eternal union upon the Infinite Spirit.

(109.3) 10:1.5 For these and other reasons beyond the concept of the finite mind, it is exceedingly difficult for the human creature to comprehend God’s infinite father-personality except as it is universally revealed in the Eternal Son and, with the Son, is universally active in the Infinite Spirit.

(109.4) 10:1.6 Since the Paradise Sons of God visit the evolutionary worlds and sometimes even there dwell in the likeness of mortal flesh, and since these bestowals make it possible for mortal man actually to know something of the nature and character of divine personality, therefore must the creatures of the planetary spheres look to the bestowals of these Paradise Sons for reliable and trustworthy information regarding the Father, the Son, and the Spirit.

beloved57
April 16th, 2014, 06:59 AM
caino


This may help:

You reading post 4 and 5 will help, then reviewing with me the points made, hows that ?

Caino
April 16th, 2014, 07:44 AM
caino



You reading post 4 and 5 will help, then reviewing with me the points made, hows that ?

I did read them, The evolved religion of Judaism contaminates the religion of Jesus. Adam himself was an incarnate son, but he was full grown, translated to the evolved, populated earth. While the creator Son is conscious of being ancestral to the I AM, there never was a time when he did not exist.

It would be accurate to say Satan was created in time, betrayed his sacred trust, mislead and was defeated, but the son is eternal.

beloved57
April 16th, 2014, 08:54 AM
I did read them, The evolved religion of Judaism contaminates the religion of Jesus. Adam himself was an incarnate son, but he was full grown, translated to the evolved, populated earth. While the creator Son is conscious of being ancestral to the I AM, there never was a time when he did not exist.

It would be accurate to say Satan was created in time, betrayed his sacred trust, mislead and was defeated, but the son is eternal.

If you have read them, then please read and review them with me !

Posted from the TOL App!

Quantrill
April 16th, 2014, 07:00 PM
You have evaded all of my two previous posts, and now want me to go into more detail, nothing doing until you respond to what I have already took time to explain and review those points with me ! Thanks !

No, I read them. You simply quoted the verse that Christ is the Second Man.

So what?

Im asking you why is Christ called the Second Man.

Im aware that you will hide behind your several posts and try and indicate that you explained it already. But you haven't. And anyone can read and see you haven't.

You produce a mass amount of posts to provide a smoke screen. A place to hide. If you have explained it, prove me wrong and show me where.

Why is Christ called the Second Adam? Of course if you don't know what you are talking about, just tell me to look for it in your posts.

Quantrill

beloved57
April 16th, 2014, 07:58 PM
No, I read them. You simply quoted the verse that Christ is the Second Man.

So what?

Im asking you why is Christ called the Second Man.

Im aware that you will hide behind your several posts and try and indicate that you explained it already. But you haven't. And anyone can read and see you haven't.

You produce a mass amount of posts to provide a smoke screen. A place to hide. If you have explained it, prove me wrong and show me where.

Why is Christ called the Second Adam? Of course if you don't know what you are talking about, just tell me to look for it in your posts.

Quantrill

That's all you saw in those two posts ? Yes you are a evader !

Posted from the TOL App!

1Mind1Spirit
April 16th, 2014, 08:27 PM
That's all you saw in those two posts ? Yes you are a evader !

Posted from the TOL App!

They believe in evolution and life on other planets.

You done good bro.

Adam was the figure of Him who was to come.

Revelation 19:10 KJV
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Quantrill
April 16th, 2014, 08:53 PM
That's all you saw in those two posts ? Yes you are a evader !

Posted from the TOL App!

Im not evading. Im asking. Consider me ignorant. But tell me why Christ is called the Second Man. I don't see you explaining it anywhere.

Surely you want me and others to know?

Quantrill

beloved57
April 16th, 2014, 09:58 PM
quan


Im not evading.

Yes you are !

Quantrill
April 17th, 2014, 02:47 AM
beloved57

Your post #1 gives no mention of Christ as the Second Man.

Your post #2 gives no mention of Christ as the Second Man.

Your post #3 gives the verse which declares Christ as the Second Man but you give no explanation. You speak of Christ as the Last Adam, but even here you don't explain why Christ is called the Last Adam.

Your post #4 gives no mention or explanation of why Christ is called the Second Man or the Last Adam.

Your post #5 gives the Scripture again which declares Christ as the Second Man, but no explanation of why He is called the Second Man is given.

If I missed it, please show me where. Why is Christ called the Last Adam and Second Man?

Quantrill

Nanja
April 17th, 2014, 05:06 PM
The Lord Jesus Christ in His Mediator Being 1 Tim 2:5 as the Son of God, did delight in the sons of men [the Election of Grace] before the Creation of the World Prov 8:31

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

I believe this is linked to Pauls comment here Acts 17:26

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

The places and times of the Elect of God had been predetermined, where they would make their dwellings and the time in Human History.

Again, who are these Sons of Men in particular in Prov 8:31 ? We have stated before they are the Elect, but they also are His Members, the Church, in fact they are the members of the Church of the Firstborn which are written in Heaven Heb 12:23

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

The Lord Jesus Christ before all things, existed as the Firstborn of the Church Col 1:17-18

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Whats the Firstborn from the Dead ? This denotes His Resurrection from the dead, but not literally, for He had not yet came into the World, for it was not yet Created, and died, however, Just as He was in the Eternal Purpose slain from the foundation of the World 1 Pet 1:20, Rev 13:8 He was also from the Eternal Purpose the Firstborn from the Dead before all Creation, and the Head of the Church before all Creation.

These are the Ones the Father Loved, Chose them in His Beloved Son, they were gave to Him, those whom He was appointed Surety and Head in behalf of in the Everlasting Covenant. They are those whose Names were Written in the Lambs Book of Life, as His Bride, before the Foundation, that's why He delighted in them Prov 8:31

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

His delight was for them as a Bridegroom for His Bride Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Remember also this Mystery Eph 5:31-32

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Who has more of the Love, tender passionate affection from a Man than His Wife ? Whom more in the Providence of God does God provide for a Mans delight ? Prov 5:18-19

18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.

19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.

Its those He delighted in and Purposed to bring to Glory with Him Heb 2:10

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.


That's an amazing fact, and precious to those who Love Him (Mat. 22:37 KJV)... that
He rejoiced and delighted, and I believe even determined, the precise plot of land on
this Earth where His Elect would live. For they are the apple of His eye ! (Psalm 17:8 KJV)

~~~~~

beloved57
April 17th, 2014, 05:10 PM
That's an amazing fact, and precious to those who Love Him (Mat. 22:37 KJV)... that
He rejoiced and delighted, and I believe even determined, the precise plot of land on
this Earth where His Elect would live. For they are the apple of His eye ! (Psalm 17:8 KJV)

~~~~~

Amen !

Posted from the TOL App!

Nanja
April 17th, 2014, 05:24 PM
Amen !

Posted from the TOL App!

I am delighting in this thread, Jesus the Man Before John !

TY! Praying Our Lord bless you richly!

~~~~~

beloved57
April 17th, 2014, 05:31 PM
I am delighting in this thread, Jesus the Man Before John !

TY! Praying Our Lord bless you richly!

~~~~~

Bless the Lord, for not many can receive that truth !

Posted from the TOL App!

Nanja
April 17th, 2014, 05:55 PM
Bless the Lord, for not many can receive that truth !

Yes, that is apparent from viewing the negative and unlearned responses.

God reveals His Truth to His Elect: 2 Thes. 2:13-14. "Belief of the Truth"
is a promise only to the Elect in the New Birth. For Faith / Belief is a Gift
of the Holy Spirit: The result or evidence that one Has been given the Holy Spirit.

~~~~~

beloved57
April 17th, 2014, 06:24 PM
The Person of Christ is very fascinating !

Posted from the TOL App!

Nanja
April 24th, 2014, 08:03 AM
Now when was Jesus Christ Created and why ? The Lord Jesus Christ was Created before the World began, in order to partake in the Creation of the World, for again, it was made by Him and for Him Col 1:16.

We find that Jesus Christ was Created here Prov 8:22

22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

First I will say that this is Christ the Wisdom of God speaking 1 Cor 1:24

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

And He says the Lord possessed Him in the beginning of His Way, the word possessed here giving us the first hint of Him being a Creation, for its the hebrew word qanah :

get, acquire, create, buy, possess
A.
(Qal)
i.
to get, acquire, obtain
a.
of God originating, creating, redeeming His people

The NIV reads:

"The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;

Thats quite similar to Him being the Firstborn of Creation Col 1:15 where the word firstborn is made up of two greek words, one being tiktō which means:

I.to bring forth, bear, produce (fruit from the seed)
A.
of a woman giving birth

B.
of the earth bringing forth its fruits

C.
metaph. to bear, bring forth

The Holman Christian Standard Bible reads:

The LORD made me at the beginning of His creation, before His works of long ago.

The ISV reads:

"The LORD made me as he began his planning, before his ancient activity commenced.

The NET reads:

The LORD created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago.

The Aramaic Bible in Plain English reads:

“Lord Jehovah created me at the beginning of his creation and from before all of his works.”

The Septuagint reads :

The Lord made me the beginning of his ways for his works.

This is crucial because it establishes the fact that He was Created before all Things to assist in the Work of Creation !

Now I am going to make this point clear, this Character of Jesus Christ being Created, was not His Deity as God, I repeat this has nothing to do with His Being as the Uncreated Word of God Jn 1:1 which is His Deity as God, but this only has to do with His Begotten Sonship and the Mediator Man 1 Tim 2:5 and as the Last Adam and the Head of His Body the Church 1 Cor 15:45-47

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

In this character He was Created with His Bride the Church in Him Col 1:18

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

And that is why when He Created Adam in His Image and Likeness, Adam was Created with His Bride in him, which was Eve, and called their Name Adam Gen 5:1-2

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Thats why Adam was the Head of his wife, even so as it pictured that Christ in Heaven was Created as the Head of His Wife the Church and called Christ !

Hence as there was No Adam without Eve in him, Neither was there No Christ without the Church, His Eve in Him !

I already know this is a Truth that will not be received by the natural man, for it cannot be !


TY for taking the time to present this excellent study; I needed that, and receive the truths therein!

The Lord Bless you! ☺

~~~~~

beloved57
April 24th, 2014, 09:48 AM
TY for taking the time to present this excellent study; I needed that, and receive the truths therein!

The Lord Bless you! ☺

~~~~~

May God continue to Bless you and cause you as He does myself to:

2 Pet 3:18

But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Nanja
April 24th, 2014, 01:44 PM
May God continue to Bless you and cause you as He does myself to:

2 Pet 3:18

But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.


TY. Amen!

~~~~~

1Mind1Spirit
April 24th, 2014, 01:59 PM
Im not evading. Im asking. Consider me ignorant. But tell me why Christ is called the Second Man. I don't see you explaining it anywhere.

Surely you want me and others to know?

Quantrill

Romans 5:14 KJVA
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come .

Quantrill
April 25th, 2014, 04:07 AM
Romans 5:14 KJVA
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come .

Yes, Adam was a figure of Christ who was to come later. All of which is described in Christ as the Last Adam and Second Man.

But, in reality, Jesus Christ was not the second man. Many were born between Adam and Christ. So why would God call Him the Second Man? And, why would God call Him the Last Adam?

Quantrill

beloved57
April 25th, 2014, 05:43 AM
quan


So why would God call Him the Second Man? And, why would God call Him the Last Adam?

Why dont you explain your comments, you made them !

Quantrill
April 25th, 2014, 05:25 PM
quan



Why dont you explain your comments, you made them !

What comments?

Quantrill

beloved57
April 25th, 2014, 05:28 PM
Bless the Lord, for not many can receive that truth !

Posted from the TOL App!

Don't worry about it !

Posted from the TOL App!

beloved57
October 21st, 2014, 04:54 AM
Not only was Christ Jesus the Man before John the Baptist Jn 1:30

This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.

But He was the OT figure the Angel of the Lord as well as Michael the Great Prince Dan 12:1

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

I also believe that the Angel here is Christ, Michael the Arch Angel Rev 10:1-6

And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: See Vision of Christ here Matt 17:2

2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,

3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,

6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

I believe, the Lord Jesus Christ, Michael and the Angel of the Covenant are the Same Judges 2:1

And an angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.

The Messenger of the Covenant Mal 3:1

Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.

I believe this Angel is Michael, Christ Gen 48:16

The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

No ordinary Angel could do this, redeem a man from all Evil, Gill writes :


The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads,.... Ephraim and Manasseh, now about twenty years old or upwards: this is not to be understood of a created angel he wishes to be their guardian, but of an eternal one, the Son of God, the Angel of God's presence, the Angel of the covenant; the same with the God of his father before mentioned, as appears by the character he gives him, as having "redeemed him from all evil"; not only protected and preserved him from temporal evils and imminent dangers from Esau, Laban, and others; but had delivered him from the power, guilt, and punishment of sin, the greatest of evils, and from the dominion and tyranny of Satan the evil one, and from everlasting wrath, ruin, and damnation; all which none but a divine Person could do, as well as he wishes, desires, and prays, that he would "bless" the lads with blessings temporal and spiritual, which a created angel cannot do; and Jacob would never have asked it of him:

I believe Jacob had an Eye to the Death of the Messiah whom Paul writes Gal 1:4

4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

keypurr
October 25th, 2014, 11:33 AM
The universe was not created through a man.
That is just silly theology.
It was not an Angel neither.

jerzy
October 25th, 2014, 01:27 PM
Originally Posted by beloved57

He was the OT figure the Angel of the Lord as well as Michael the Great Prince Dan 12:1

Says who????

Before Jn 1:

2Sa 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.


Jn 1:

Jesus and the NT writers almost always referred to prophets.

Which prophets you would say Jesus referred to in Jn1:1-3 if not to these?

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Psa 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
Psa 33:9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

It is confirmed in the NT:

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word (rhema-never Jesus, always utterance) of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

The origin of Jesus is clearly stated here:

2Sa 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

Peter declares it fulfilled here:

Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

and Paul here:

Act 13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:


So where is your story coming from?

beloved57
October 25th, 2014, 06:07 PM
jerzy


Says who????

Who says He wasnt ?

Truster
October 26th, 2014, 12:40 AM
The Angel / messenger in Rev 10 is not the Eternal Son, but the personal messenger of the Eternal Son. The Angel of the Yah Veh or the Messenger of the Yah Veh.

Your fantasies are getting worse, but the more ridiculous they become the greater exposure you receive at the hand of Him who will not be mocked.

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 02:12 AM
The Angel / messenger in Rev 10 is not the Eternal Son, but the personal messenger of the Eternal Son. The Angel of the Yah Veh or the Messenger of the Yah Veh.

Your fantasies are getting worse, but the more ridiculous they become the greater exposure you receive at the hand of Him who will not be mocked.

See you at the Judgment !

Truster
October 26th, 2014, 02:25 AM
See you at the Judgment !

I was waiting for that and being unable to prove me wrong you obliged.

You are confused about gospel/evangel and that confusion leads to your heresy regarding angel. They both, evangel and angel, have the same root meaning, but don't let this fact interfere with you stupid fictions.

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 02:26 AM
I was waiting for that and being unable to prove me wrong you obliged.

You are confused about gospel/evangel and that confusion leads to your heresy regarding angel. They both, evangel and angel, have the same root meaning, but don't let this fact interfere with you stupid fictions.

Your not a believer in Christ, see you at the Judgment !

Truster
October 26th, 2014, 02:29 AM
Your not a believer in Christ, see you at the Judgment !

You are correct in what you say. I am in fact a truster in Messiah.

Your lack of understand between belief, faith and trust is yet again leading you into the realm of stupid remarks.

Truster
October 26th, 2014, 02:31 AM
And your avatar shows where your thoughts and veneration really are.

Truster
October 26th, 2014, 02:32 AM
Idolator.

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 02:33 AM
Idolator.

See you at the Judgment !

Truster
October 26th, 2014, 02:33 AM
Your judgement has already taken place as your blindness proves.

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 02:34 AM
Your judgement has already taken place as your blindness proves.

See you at the Judgment !

Truster
October 26th, 2014, 02:37 AM
Prove me wrong then bright spark:

Believe means........
Faith means............
Trust means............
Gospel means...........
Evangel means..........
Angel means...........

Secular meanings and dictionaries cannot give the spiritual interpretation of these words.

OK bright spark lets go for it.

jerzy
October 26th, 2014, 02:44 AM
Who says He wasnt ?

The molester of God's word like you.


It is beyond your molestation skills to molest the proof of Jesus' origin:


2Sa 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

Peter declares it fulfilled here:

Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

and Paul here:

Act 13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 03:44 AM
The molester of God's word like you.


It is beyond your molestation skills to molest the proof of Jesus' origin:


2Sa 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

Peter declares it fulfilled here:

Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

and Paul here:

Act 13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Neither one of you believe in Christ !

Truster
October 26th, 2014, 03:58 AM
Prove me wrong then bright spark:

Believe means........
Faith means............
Trust means............
Gospel means...........
Evangel means..........
Angel means...........

Secular meanings and dictionaries cannot give the spiritual interpretation of these words.

OK bright spark lets go for it.

You seem to thrive at cut and paste, but when understanding or reason for hope are called for you realise that this pair only come from experience. Being a hypocrite you lack that experience and so you refuse to give reason or explain your understanding, because in doing so you know your hypocrisy will be revealed.

jerzy
October 26th, 2014, 03:58 AM
Neither one of you believe in Christ !

Whatever you say must be true.

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 04:01 AM
Whatever you say must be true.

See you at the Judgment !

jerzy
October 26th, 2014, 04:05 AM
See you at the Judgment !

Have a good luck with your scriptures molesting.

Nanja
October 26th, 2014, 04:49 AM
Neither one of you believe in Christ !


I believe that to be a true statement!

~~~~~

jerzy
October 26th, 2014, 04:53 AM
I believe that to be a true statement!

~~~~~

What convinced you that I don’t believe in Christ?

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 05:17 AM
Have a good luck with your scriptures molesting.

See you at the Judgment !

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 05:20 AM
What convinced you that I don’t believe in Christ?

It's easy, she just reads your posts like I do, for they reveal a lot of what you believe !

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 05:23 AM
What convinced you that I don’t believe in Christ?

By reading your posts !

jerzy
October 26th, 2014, 05:27 AM
By reading your posts !

You mean by reading my quotes like these?

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

It is confirmed here:

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.


Or these?

sa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Psa 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
Psa 33:9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

It is confirmed in the NT:

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word (rhema-never Jesus, always utterance) of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

The origin of Jesus is clearly stated here:

2Sa 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

Peter declares it fulfilled here:

Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

and Paul here:

Act 13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 05:42 AM
You mean by reading my quotes like these?

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

It is confirmed here:

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.


Or these?

sa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Psa 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
Psa 33:9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

It is confirmed in the NT:

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word (rhema-never Jesus, always utterance) of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

The origin of Jesus is clearly stated here:

2Sa 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

Peter declares it fulfilled here:

Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

and Paul here:

Act 13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Scripture quoted is fine, it is your unbelief and not understanding scripture !

jerzy
October 26th, 2014, 05:44 AM
Scripture quoted is fine, it is your unbelief and not understanding scripture !

But I believe and understand like a babe all what scriptures states.

So what are you trying to molest this time?

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 05:52 AM
But I believe and understand like a babe all what scriptures states.

So what are you trying to molest this time?

We will see at the Judgment how you understood things !

jerzy
October 26th, 2014, 05:59 AM
We will see at the Judgment how you understood things !

How many times you are going to post similar stupid rhetoric instead of responding with a fool-proof text/s as a Christian is commanded?

Perhaps you aren’t a Christian after all.

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 06:01 AM
How many times you are going to post similar stupid rhetoric instead of responding with a fool-proof text/s as a Christian is commanded?

Perhaps you aren’t a Christian after all.

You want to know what I believe, read my threads and posts where I explained my views and beliefs !

jerzy
October 26th, 2014, 06:05 AM
You want to know what I believe, read my threads and posts where I explained my views and beliefs !

I care less for your molestations of the scriptures and for your wise and prudent "logic".

Have a good day beloved.

Nanja
October 26th, 2014, 06:10 AM
It's easy, she just reads your posts like I do, for they reveal a lot of what you believe !

Yes. A man's heart is revealed by the fruit of his understanding of the scriptures, especially with regard to Salvation. Mat. 7:18-20

~~~~~

jerzy
October 26th, 2014, 06:14 AM
Yes. A man's heart is revealed by the fruit of his understanding of the scriptures, especially with regard to Salvation. Mat. 7:18-20

~~~~~

And this:

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

It is confirmed here:

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Nanja
October 26th, 2014, 06:18 AM
And this:

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

It is confirmed here:

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.


That's just quoting scriptures.

Do you believe the Gospel of God's Grace as illustrated in the Truths of TULIP?

~~~~~

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 06:31 AM
I care less for your molestations of the scriptures and for your wise and prudent "logic".

Have a good day beloved.

See you at the Judgment !

jerzy
October 26th, 2014, 06:31 AM
That's just quoting scriptures.

So what is wrong with this scriptures?

Do you need to molest it?

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 06:32 AM
That's just quoting scriptures.

Do you believe the Gospel of God's Grace as illustrated in the Truths of TULIP?

~~~~~
He is far from believing the Gospel of God's Grace !

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 06:35 AM
And this:

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

It is confirmed here:

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Anyone can quote scriptures, but what about believing them and understanding them, that is what you lack !

jerzy
October 26th, 2014, 07:08 AM
Anyone can quote scriptures, but what about believing them and understanding them, that is what you lack !

The scripture states exactly what I need to believe and understand.

I don't need a molester like you to tell me what it should mean.

But don’t worry.

There are tens of thousands of “Christians” who molest it making it mean contrary to what it states.

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 07:19 AM
The scripture states exactly what I need to believe and understand.

I don't need a molester like you to tell me what it should mean.

But don’t worry.

There are tens of thousands of “Christians” who molest it making it mean contrary to what it states.
Anyone can quote scriptures, but what about believing them and understanding them, that is what you lack !

Nanja
October 26th, 2014, 07:49 AM
Anyone can quote scriptures, but what about believing them and understanding them, that is what you lack !


Because he has not been given belief in the scriptures pointing to the foundational principles of the
Gospel of God's Grace, as a consequence he will also wrest with understanding of all other scriptures.

~~~~~

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 07:50 AM
Because he has not been given belief in the scriptures pointing to the foundational principles of the
Gospel of God's Grace, as a consequence he will also wrest with understanding of all other scriptures.

~~~~~

Amen !

jerzy
October 26th, 2014, 08:00 AM
Anyone can quote scriptures, but what about believing them and understanding them, that is what you lack !

So you reject the command to say as it is written.

You reckon that you are appointed to molest it do understand it differently.

jerzy
October 26th, 2014, 08:02 AM
Because he has not been given belief in the scriptures...

You mean he rejected the fables produced by scripture molesters like you.

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 08:02 AM
So you reject the command to say as it is written.

You reckon that you are appointed to molest it do understand it differently.

Anyone can quote scriptures, it is understanding them that is key, which you don't, you not even a believer !

jerzy
October 26th, 2014, 08:05 AM
Anyone can quote scriptures, it is understanding them that is key, which you don't, you not even a believer !

So God did poor job and you are to correct Him.

I see.

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 08:06 AM
So God did poor job and you are to correct Him.

I see.

Anyone can quote scriptures !

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 08:07 AM
So God did poor job and you are to correct Him.

I see.

Since when did you start believing in God ?

jerzy
October 26th, 2014, 08:13 AM
Anyone can quote scriptures !

This is what Jesus and the NT writers did.

This is what Jesus' followers are to do but you have to molest it because you are not his follower.

jerzy
October 26th, 2014, 08:14 AM
Since when did you start believing in God ?

Before you were born.

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 08:15 AM
This is what Jesus and the NT writers did.

This is what Jesus' followers are to do but you have to molest it because you are not his follower.

You not Jesus and the NT writers !

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 08:17 AM
Before you were born.

You don't believe in God, not the God of Scripture !

jerzy
October 26th, 2014, 08:18 AM
You not Jesus and the NT writers !

I only do as commanded:

Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

I suppose you have to molest this to your "standard"?

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 08:20 AM
I only do as commanded:

Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

I suppose you have to molest this to your "standard"?

You don't believe in God !

jerzy
October 26th, 2014, 08:21 AM
You don't believe in God, not the God of Scripture !

And you know it because I believe in every word of God instead of believe in your baloney.

jerzy
October 26th, 2014, 08:22 AM
You don't believe in God !

You know it because I quoted my Lord Jesus Christ instead of your baloney.

I see.

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 08:24 AM
And you know it because I believe in every word of God instead of believe in your baloney.
You don't believe in God nor His Gospel !

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 08:25 AM
You know it because I quoted my Lord Jesus Christ instead of your baloney.

I see.

You may quote Christ, but you don't believe in Christ !

jerzy
October 26th, 2014, 08:27 AM
You don't believe in God nor His Gospel !

You know this because I don’t believe in your baloney.

jerzy
October 26th, 2014, 08:28 AM
You may quote Christ, but you don't believe in Christ !

You know this because I quoted Christ not your baloney.

I see.

beloved57
October 26th, 2014, 08:30 AM
You know this because I quoted Christ not your baloney.

I see.



You may quote Christ, but you don't believe in Christ !

jerzy
October 26th, 2014, 08:32 AM
You may quote Christ, but you don't believe in Christ !

You know this because you are sick.

beloved57
October 29th, 2014, 11:47 AM
You know this because you are sick.

Rev 12:7-9 Michael here is Christ and His Victory over the Dragon Who is the Devil ! :-)

jerzy
October 29th, 2014, 02:12 PM
Rev 12:7-9 Michael here is Christ and His Victory over the Dragon Who is the Devil ! :-)

You are sick.

You have no idea who the great red dragon who is "called" the Devil, and Satan really is.

beloved57
October 29th, 2014, 02:15 PM
You are sick.

You have no idea who the great red dragon who is "called" the Devil, and Satan really is.

See you at the Judgment !

beloved57
December 11th, 2014, 11:06 AM
Rev 12:7-9 Michael here is Christ and His Victory over the Dragon Who is the Devil ! :-)

The Lord Jesus Christ is none other than Michael the Archangel, The Lord/Prince of all the Angels of God,who by the way [The Angels of God] were Created for the Redemptive Purpose in Christ as indicated Heb 1:13-14

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

And no other Angel but Michael, the Chief of them could execute what happens to satan in Rev 12:7-9

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

And its also Christ/ Michael here when the Angel did this Rev 20:1-2

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

That Angel was Christ that bound satan, the strong man ! Matt 12:29

Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Mk 3:27

No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

The word bind in both Matt 12:29 and Mk 3:27 is the same exact word bound in Rev 20:2 ! Thats because its Christ by His work of the Cross binding the strong man satan and that is what is happening in Rev 12:7-9 !

Nanja
December 13th, 2014, 09:00 AM
The Lord Jesus Christ is none other than Michael the Archangel, The Lord/Prince of all the Angels of God,who by the way [The Angels of God] were Created for the Redemptive Purpose in Christ as indicated Heb 1:13-14

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

And no other Angel but Michael, the Chief of them could execute what happens to satan in Rev 12:7-9

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

And its also Christ/ Michael here when the Angel did this Rev 20:1-2

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

That Angel was Christ that bound satan, the strong man ! Matt 12:29

Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Mk 3:27

No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

The word bind in both Matt 12:29 and Mk 3:27 is the same exact word bound in Rev 20:2 ! Thats because its Christ by His work of the Cross binding the strong man satan and that is what is happening in Rev 12:7-9 !


Amen to all you posted here, and also in Post #32 !

Christ our Saviour is The Man, Who rescued / delivered all His Elect Children,
by His Death alone, from the bondage of the strong man.

Praise Him!

~~~~~

beloved57
December 13th, 2014, 09:24 AM
Amen to all you posted here, and also in Post #32 !

Christ our Saviour is The Man, Who rescued / delivered all His Elect Children,
by His Death alone, from the bondage of the strong man.

Praise Him!

~~~~~
Amen !

beloved57
June 23rd, 2015, 12:33 AM
Phil 2:5-6

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

The answer is a resounding YES ! Most people believe, and I also believed once, and without warrent, that the Being of the Man Christ Jesus, the Mediator 1 Tim 2:5, that He did not exist until after being born of the virgin mary, but this was because if spiritual ignorance, for He was the Only Begotten Son of God, in the form of God, before His Incarnation, and so says our text Phil 2:6

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

For it was while in this Preincarnate form, He had the Mind of Christ Jesus ! It was then in pre creation that Christ Jesus as Mediator was in the Form of God, prior to taking on a entirely different form, the form of a servant by the incarnation !

beloved57
June 23rd, 2015, 12:51 AM
Another scripture that proves the same, that reveals that the Lord Jesus Christ in His Mediator Man Person, Glorified before the incarnation, it is 2 Cor 8:9

9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

He had been rich in His God Man Mediator Glory, equal with God, before the World began Jn 17:5

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Phil 2:5-6 Now I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ in His Preincarnate existence as God Man Mediator, looked the way He did to James Peter and John here on the Mount Matt 17:1-3

And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

2 Pet 1:17-19

17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

I believe Moses had seen Him before and so did recognize Him on the Mount when with Him ! When did Moses see Him before ? Ex 24:10-18


10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.

11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

12 And the Lord said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

13 And Moses rose up, and his minister Joshua: and Moses went up into the mount of God.

14 And he said unto the elders, Tarry ye here for us, until we come again unto you: and, behold, Aaron and Hur are with you: if any man have any matters to do, let him come unto them.

15 And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount.

16 And the glory of the Lord abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud.

17 And the sight of the glory of the Lord was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.

18 And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.



Notice Vs 10, they saw something under His Feet, So this was a Person existing as the God of Israel, this would have been the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Mediator between God and Men, in Union with the Godhead.

Jonh Gill writes on Ex 24:10


And they saw the God of Israel,.... The Targum of Jonathan restrains this to Nadab and Abihu whereas it is doubtless true of Moses and Aaron, and the seventy elders, who all saw him, and who were witnesses to the people that it was a divine Person that spoke to Moses, and delivered the laws unto him, to be observed by them; which seems to be the reason of their being called up, and favoured with this sight which must not be understood as of anything criminal in them, as if they curiously looked and pried to see something they should not, for which they deserved some sort of punishment, as the Targum intimates; but of a privilege, and a very high one they were favoured with: and this sight they had was not by a vision of prophecy, or with the eyes of their understanding, but corporeally; they saw the Son of God, the God of Israel, in an human form, as a pledge and presage of his future incarnation, who is the Angel that spoke to Moses on Mount Sinai, as Stephen says, and the Lord that was among the angels there, who afterwards became incarnate, and having done his work on earth, ascended on high, Acts 7:38.

and there was under his feet; which shows that there was a visible form, and that human; nor is this contrary to what is said, "ye saw no similitude"; Deuteronomy 4:12, since what is here related does not respect the same time, nor the same persons; this was after the giving of the ten commands, that at the time of it; this is said of the seventy elders, with Moses, Aaron, and his two sons, that of all the people:

beloved57
July 5th, 2015, 03:07 AM
Col 1:18

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

This scripture sets forth a profound Mystery and Truth, that Christ as the Head of His Body the Church, was in the beginning, in other words, He existed in this capacity as the Head of the Body, His Church, at the beginning of the World, and it is what is referred to here Rev 3:14

14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Prov 8:23

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

And He was set up the Head of His Body the Church, which are called the Sons of men in Prov 8:31

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

Thats His Church, members of His Body, that He takes delight in, and it is those He made in His Image and Likeness, who are the ones to be conformed to His Image through redemptive blessing Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

The Ones Created in His Image Gen 1:26

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Matt 13:37

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed[offspring, descendants] is the Son of man; See Gen 1:26 !

As the beginning the Head of the Church, He is also the originating cause Eph 3:9

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

In other words, Creation had an Redemptive Purpose hidden in Christ, it was a Mystery !

It was the redemptive purpose for that world[The Church He is the Head of ] chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

beloved57
August 31st, 2015, 05:21 AM
Job 15:7

7 Art thou the first man that was born? or wast thou made before the hills?

Jn 1:30

This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he[a man] was before me.

I already know that the consensus will say Adam the First 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

But that pertains only to manifestation, also Adam was not born or beget or fathered, he was created, or made, and that after a pattern of another Man, the Man Christ Jesus, His Mediator 1 Tim 2:5

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

This statement is false if Christ Jesus was not the Mediator of men in Adam at Creation, at Creation, men had One God and One Mediator, the Man Christ Jesus, the thing was, Christ Jesus the Mediator was not yet manifested as He would be later I jn 3:8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

He became Manifested through means of the Incarnation, the Virgin Birth !

The Man Christ Jesus is the First Man Born and by that is meant :


I.first in time or place

A.in any succession of things or persons



II.first in rank

A.influence, honour


B.chief


C.principal



III.first, at the first

In all things, including being a Man He must have the Preminence Col 1:18

18 And he is the head of the body, the church[As Mediator]: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

The word preeminence means :

I.to be first, hold the first place

That word first in Job 15:7 for first man is the hebrew word ri'shown :

I.first, primary, former

A.former (of time)

i.ancestors


ii.former things



B.foremost (of location)


C.first (in time)


D.first, chief (in degree)

Christ the Mediator Man [1Tim 2:5] was before Adam as He was before John 1:30, in fact Adam took the form and shape of a Man after being made in the Image and Likeness of his God Man Mediator, Christ Jesus !

beloved57
August 31st, 2015, 05:56 AM
Job 15:7

7 Art thou the first man that was born? or wast thou made before the hills?

The second portion of this verse gives us more insight into who this First Man Born is, by the words of inquiry"or wast thou made before the hills?"

The word made here is the hebrew word chuwl and means:


ii.to be brought forth



D.(Hophal) to be born

Which is its meaning in Prov 8:24-25

24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

Did you notice again the phrase "before the hills" ? Where did we see it before ? Here Job 15:7

7 Art thou the first man that was born? or wast thou made before the hills?

The First Man was born, brought forth before the Hills were ! Prove 8:24-25 is speaking of the Wisdom of God, which is Christ 1 Cor 1:24

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

And who is Christ ? Why He is the The Man Mediator between God and Men 1 Tim 2:5

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

He delighted as Mans Mediator before they were Created Prov 8:31

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

Some Translations of Prov 8:25

25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: are:

before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth,NIV

before the mountains were set in place— before the hills—I was born,NET

And before the mountains would be established, and before the hills, I was formed in the womb.Aramaic Bible in Plain English See Ps 110:3

The Septuagint reads:

25 before the mountains were settled, and before all hills, he begets me.

which terms relate to being born, Hence the First Man to be born is the Lord Jesus Christ as The Mediator between God and Men 1 Tim 2:5, The Man Wisdom, and we are His Children if we receive this Mystery Lk 7:35

But wisdom [Christ] is justified by all her children.

Nanja
August 31st, 2015, 07:13 AM
Job 15:7

7 Art thou the first man that was born? or wast thou made before the hills?

Jn 1:30

This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he[a man] was before me.

I already know that the consensus will say Adam the First 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

But that pertains only to manifestation, also Adam was not born or beget or fathered, he was created, or made, and that after a pattern of another Man, the Man Christ Jesus, His Mediator 1 Tim 2:5

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

This statement is false if Christ Jesus was not the Mediator of men in Adam at Creation, at Creation, men had One God and One Mediator, the Man Christ Jesus, the thing was, Christ Jesus the Mediator was not yet manifested as He would be later I jn 3:8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

He became Manifested through means of the Incarnation, the Virgin Birth !

The Man Christ Jesus is the First Man Born and by that is meant :


I.first in time or place

A.in any succession of things or persons



II.first in rank

A.influence, honour


B.chief


C.principal



III.first, at the first

In all things, including being a Man He must have the Preminence Col 1:18

18 And he is the head of the body, the church[As Mediator]: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

The word preeminence means :

I.to be first, hold the first place

That word first in Job 15:7 for first man is the hebrew word ri'shown :

I.first, primary, former

A.former (of time)

i.ancestors


ii.former things



B.foremost (of location)


C.first (in time)


D.first, chief (in degree)

Christ the Mediator Man [1Tim 2:5] was before Adam as He was before John 1:30, in fact Adam took the form and shape of a Man after being made in the Image and Likeness of his God Man Mediator, Christ Jesus !


Amen, very enlightening study!

~~~~~

beloved57
August 31st, 2015, 07:31 AM
Amen, very enlightening study!

~~~~~

My Sister, very few can receive this !

Nanja
August 31st, 2015, 01:50 PM
My Sister, very few can receive this !


So True, My Brother, and that's because Christ gives only those of us He died for
an understanding to believe the Truth about Him 1 John 5:20. He is Our Wisdom 1 Cor. 1:24, 30!

~~~~~

beloved57
August 31st, 2015, 01:55 PM
So True, My Brother, and that's because Christ gives only those of us He died for
an understanding to believe the Truth about Him 1 John 5:20. He is Our Wisdom 1 Cor. 1:24, 30!

~~~~~

Amen!

beloved57
September 9th, 2015, 06:30 AM
Zech 13:7

7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

This Prophecy ensured that the coming redeemer of Gods People, His Sheep, would be a Man, its the Man Christ Jesus [which means "Yahweh saves" (or "Yahweh is salvation").]

Christ Jesus is the Man Mediator 1 Tim 2:5 , and He would be also God and Man, in fact earlier the same Prophet identifies that Man as Jehovah Himself Zech 12:10

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

The piercing here is equivalent to the sword in Zech 13:7 they both belong to the Justice of God rendered in His Redemptive and substitutionary Death for the Sheep, So the Prophet knew that the Shepherd Man the fellow was God, and again that He was known to be a Divine Man by the Prophet is seen here Zech 6:12

12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the Lord:

This Man shall build the Temple of the Lord ! See Matt 16:18 ! The Man Christ Jesus is responsible to build the Temple of the Lord, not a material , physical temple, but a Spiritual One made of Lively stones that He through His Spirit quickens to Life !

The same ones it is written of them this Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Its said soon after this Eph 2:19-22

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

This Temple was Built by the Shepherd Man who is God Zech 6:12;13:7;12:10 !

beloved57
September 12th, 2015, 04:18 AM
Judges 13:10,11;15-23

10 And the woman[Sampsons Mother] made haste, and ran, and shewed her husband, and said unto him, Behold, the man hath appeared unto me, that came unto me the other day.

11 And Manoah arose, and went after his wife, and came to the man, and said unto him, Art thou the man that spakest unto the woman? And he said, I am.

15 And Manoah said unto the angel/messenger of the Lord[The Man of Vs 10-11], I pray thee, let us detain thee, until we shall have made ready a kid for thee.

16 And the angel of the Lord said unto Manoah, Though thou detain me, I will not eat of thy bread: and if thou wilt offer a burnt offering, thou must offer it unto the Lord. For Manoah knew not that he was an angel of the Lord.

17 And Manoah said unto the angel of the Lord, What is thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour?

18 And the angel of the Lord said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret? This word secret is the same word wonderful in Isa 9:6 which describes Christ !

19 So Manoah took a kid with a meat offering, and offered it upon a rock unto the Lord: and the angel did wonderously; and Manoah and his wife looked on.

20 For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the Lord ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on it, and fell on their faces to the ground.

21 But the angel of the Lord did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the Lord.

22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God[elohim]
. This is a Testimony that the Man, the Angel of the Lord they seen was God ! It was God as a Man, the Mediator, the Man Christ Jesus, I believe !

23 But his wife said unto him, If the Lord were pleased to kill us, he would not have received a burnt offering and a meat offering at our hands, neither would he have shewed us all these things, nor would as at this time have told us such things as these.

The Only One who could be God and Man at the same time is the Mediator Christ Jesus, 1 Tim 2:5 who is also God the Word Jn 1:1 !

Who is also Wonderful and the Mighty God Isa 9:6 !

beloved57
September 12th, 2015, 04:33 AM
Jesus was a Man before He came down from Heaven , this is a Great Mystery of our Faith, the Faith of Gods Elect, for we read in 1 Cor 15:47

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. What can be a more clearer testimony of scripture that Christ was a Man from Heaven or from above as stated also here Jn 8:23

And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

Jesus is speaking in this context as the Son of Man Jn 8:28

28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

So as the Son of Man He is from above Jn 8:23 !

Also we read Him say as a Man on Earth Jn 6:38

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

This is Christ as the Mediatorial Man, between God and Man 1 Tim 2:5, and this Manhood of Christ is not from Mary but from Heaven Jn 8:23, its origin is not the womb of the virgin, but its from the womb of the Morning Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

Nanja
September 12th, 2015, 07:44 AM
Job 15:7

7 Art thou the first man that was born? or wast thou made before the hills?

The second portion of this verse gives us more insight into who this First Man Born is, by the words of inquiry"or wast thou made before the hills?"

The word made here is the hebrew word chuwl and means:


ii.to be brought forth



D.(Hophal) to be born

Which is its meaning in Prov 8:24-25

24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

Did you notice again the phrase "before the hills" ? Where did we see it before ? Here Job 15:7

7 Art thou the first man that was born? or wast thou made before the hills?

The First Man was born, brought forth before the Hills were ! Prove 8:24-25 is speaking of the Wisdom of God, which is Christ 1 Cor 1:24

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

And who is Christ ? Why He is the The Man Mediator between God and Men 1 Tim 2:5

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

He delighted as Mans Mediator before they were Created Prov 8:31

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

Some Translations of Prov 8:25

25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: are:

before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth,NIV

before the mountains were set in place— before the hills—I was born,NET

And before the mountains would be established, and before the hills, I was formed in the womb.Aramaic Bible in Plain English See Ps 110:3

The Septuagint reads:

25 before the mountains were settled, and before all hills, he begets me.

which terms relate to being born, Hence the First Man to be born is the Lord Jesus Christ as The Mediator between God and Men 1 Tim 2:5, The Man Wisdom, and we are His Children if we receive this Mystery Lk 7:35

But wisdom [Christ] is justified by all her children.


As God's Children are led by His Spirit to delve deeper into these precious Truths of His Word,
there surely comes with it a Powerful Spiritual Blessing, a Delightful Awe of Him! ☺

This First Man Born is Christ, The Mediator for His Body chosen in Him before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9.
What Great Love 1 John 4:19 He has only for these, His Seed! Even to the predetermining of
where He would place them upon the Earth as they are born in time!

~~~~~

beloved57
September 12th, 2015, 09:09 AM
As God's Children are led by His Spirit to delve deeper into these precious Truths of His Word,
there surely comes with it a Powerful Spiritual Blessing, a Delightful Awe of Him! ☺

This First Man Born is Christ, The Mediator for His Body chosen in Him before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9.
What Great Love 1 John 4:19 He has only for these, His Seed! Even to the predetermining of
where He would place them upon the Earth as they are born in time!

~~~~~

Yes, scriptures like these indicate that Prov 8:31

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth[where the elect would be]; and my delights were with the sons of men.

Acts 17:26

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

God determined when and where His Elect would enter upon the earth scene, our geographical location , are race and culture !

Nanja
September 12th, 2015, 10:42 AM
Yes, scriptures like these indicate that Prov 8:31

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth[where the elect would be]; and my delights were with the sons of men.

Acts 17:26

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

God determined when and where His Elect would enter upon the earth scene, our geographical location , are race and culture !



Yes, and He knew we would be talking about Him often on this forum!

Mal. 3:16
Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another:
and the LORD hearkened, and heard it,
and a book of remembrance was written before him
for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

~~~~~

beloved57
September 12th, 2015, 10:52 AM
Yes, and He knew we would be talking about Him often on this forum!

Yes, He ordained it Eph 2:10 !

Mal. 3:16
Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another:
and the LORD hearkened, and heard it,
and a book of remembrance was written before him
for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

~~~~~

Nanja
September 13th, 2015, 07:07 AM
Judges 13:10,11;15-23

10 And the woman[Sampsons Mother] made haste, and ran, and shewed her husband, and said unto him, Behold, the man hath appeared unto me, that came unto me the other day.

11 And Manoah arose, and went after his wife, and came to the man, and said unto him, Art thou the man that spakest unto the woman? And he said, I am.

15 And Manoah said unto the angel/messenger of the Lord[The Man of Vs 10-11], I pray thee, let us detain thee, until we shall have made ready a kid for thee.

16 And the angel of the Lord said unto Manoah, Though thou detain me, I will not eat of thy bread: and if thou wilt offer a burnt offering, thou must offer it unto the Lord. For Manoah knew not that he was an angel of the Lord.

17 And Manoah said unto the angel of the Lord, What is thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour?

18 And the angel of the Lord said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret? This word secret is the same word wonderful in Isa 9:6 which describes Christ !

19 So Manoah took a kid with a meat offering, and offered it upon a rock unto the Lord: and the angel did wonderously; and Manoah and his wife looked on.

20 For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the Lord ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on it, and fell on their faces to the ground.

21 But the angel of the Lord did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the Lord.

22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God[elohim]
. This is a Testimony that the Man, the Angel of the Lord they seen was God ! It was God as a Man, the Mediator, the Man Christ Jesus, I believe !

23 But his wife said unto him, If the Lord were pleased to kill us, he would not have received a burnt offering and a meat offering at our hands, neither would he have shewed us all these things, nor would as at this time have told us such things as these.

The Only One who could be God and Man at the same time is the Mediator Christ Jesus, 1 Tim 2:5 who is also God the Word Jn 1:1 !

Who is also Wonderful and the Mighty God Isa 9:6 !



Amen!

They are One God (elohiym).

God is the First and the Last.

Is. 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts;
I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Rev. 2:8
And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write;
These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;


Also, and being that He, the Mediator Man Christ Jesus, ascended in the flame of the altar Judges 13:20,
it proves that, as God, He accepted and received the burnt offering that Manoah prepared for Him.

Gen. 1:26a
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

The man Adam was made in the Image of the God Man Mediator from Heaven.

~~~~~

beloved57
September 13th, 2015, 08:54 AM
Amen!

They are One God (elohiym).

God is the First and the Last.

Is. 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts;
I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Rev. 2:8
And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write;
These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;


Also, and being that He, the Mediator Man Christ Jesus, ascended in the flame of the altar Judges 13:20,
it proves that, as God, He accepted and received the burnt offering that Manoah prepared for Him.

Gen. 1:26a
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

The man Adam was made in the Image of the God Man Mediator from Heaven.

~~~~~

Amen!

beloved57
February 9th, 2017, 08:57 AM
Who is this Angel Jacob speaks of here?

Gen 48:16
The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

beloved57
February 9th, 2017, 09:42 AM
Who is this Angel Jacob speaks of here?

Gen 48:16
The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

The Angel Jacob speaks of here is The Preincarnated Jesus Christ, the Angel/Messenger of the Covenant who would in the future give Himself for the sins of His People and redeem them from all sin, evil, and iniquity Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.