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beloved57
October 28th, 2012, 04:34 AM
2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Peter in this scripture does inform us where precious Faith comes from ! Its certainly not of ourselves Eph 2:8.

It comes in or with the Righteousness of God and Our Saviour, this Righteousness is the free gift that Christ purchased and bestows upon all for whom He died Rom 5:17

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ)

This Righteousness as well as that referred to in 2 Pet 1:1 is the imparted Righteousness of Christ we receive at New Birth. It is through this imparted or communicated Righteousness at New Birth we receive of, that with it we are given precious Faith.

Peter goes on to say 2 Pet 1:3-4

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Faith or precious Faith is of the many things Given to us by New Birth which gives us to live a life of godliness !

So 2 Pet 1:1 is but another scripture that proves biblically that Faith is the product of New Birth, partaking experimentally of the Divine Nature !

Grosnick Marowbe
October 28th, 2012, 07:18 AM
2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Peter in this scripture does inform us where precious Faith comes from ! Its certainly not of ourselves Eph 2:8.

It comes in or with the Righteousness of God and Our Saviour, this Righteousness is the free gift that Christ purchased and bestows upon all for whom He died Rom 5:17

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ)

This Righteousness as well as that referred to in 2 Pet 1:1 is the imparted Righteousness of Christ we receive at New Birth. It is through this imparted or communicated Righteousness at New Birth we receive of, that with it we are given precious Faith.

Peter goes on to say 2 Pet 1:3-4

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Faith or precious Faith is of the many things Given to us by New Birth which gives us to live a life of godliness !

So 2 Pet 1:1 is but another scripture that proves biblically that Faith is the product of New Birth, partaking experimentally of the Divine Nature !

In Ephesians 2:8, it's not the faith that is the gift; the Grace is the gift!!

beloved57
October 28th, 2012, 03:06 PM
In Ephesians 2:8, it's not the faith that is the gift; the Grace is the gift!!

Can you explain the points I made in the OP ?

beloved57
November 4th, 2012, 11:09 PM
Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Do we understand what this is saying or promising ? Its an declaration that everyone Christ hath died for, whom sins He hath bore, that everyone of them shall live by Faith ! Yes it is a absolute guarantee that every sinner Christ died for shall live by Faith or his faith [ Hab 2:4] because it [faith] will be given them. Now the reason why this is True, that all for whom Christ died shall live by Faith, its because scripture states the Just shall live by by Faith Rom 1:16-17; Gal 3:11

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Now some translations like the ESV substitute the word Just for the word Righteous :

11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.

But thats ok because the greek word for Just is also rendered Righteous its the word dikaios:


righteous 41, just 33, right 5, meet 2

So to be Just or to be Righteous are both the same ! Now with that in mind, we will see how scripture proclaims how one is made Righteous or Just before God, Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous or just.

Note the Obedience of One [Jesus Christ] many shall be made Righteous or Just ! The obedience here of this ONE is speaking of the Obedience of Christ unto Death of the Cross Phil 2:8

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

beloved57
November 5th, 2012, 08:40 AM
The purpose of this title is to establish from scripture that all for whom Christ died shall live by Faith, because it was by His Obedience unto death, dying for their sins, that they are made Righteous or Just Rom 5:19b, and the promise is that the Just or Righteous shall live by Faith !

The promise God's Word gives to them that are Just is this according to scripture Hab 2:4

4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Rom 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 3:11

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Heb 10:38

38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

The Promise is that the Just shall live by Faith, and how did they become Just in the First place, for it was by the obedience of Christ or His Blood, so there you have it, all for whom Christ died shall live by Faith, or shall believe in Him. Thats why Jesus stated in Jn 8:24, it meant that His Death, or His Blood never Justified them Rom 5:9, never made them Righteous Rom 5:19b, because He never died for them or for their sins, so instead of believing on Him, which would have been proof that His Death made them Righteous or Just, so that they should live by Faith, then consequently their not believing is but evidence that by His Death they have not been made Just, and their sins unpaid for and still charged against them by God's Law and Justice, so they shall die in their sins !

Believing in Christ proves that God gave Him for your sins out of His Love, for that is the True meaning of Jn 3:16, God gave His Son for those believing, which by His Death for them, they were made Just or Righteous, and as the promise goes, the Just shall live by Faith in Christ.


Thats why Paul first states what the Gospel of Christ is in Rom 1:16 and what it reveals to them believing, which produces the end result and fulfills the promise Rom 1:17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Princely
November 5th, 2012, 02:12 PM
Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.



What Paul never said is that the just man speaks wisdom as in the verse "The just mans mouth speaks wisdom and his tongue does what is right". This is why scripture has also said and the Lord said "Do what is right and just." Jesus and I have also said "The man who has faith in me will do the works I do" and also "By your words you'll be justified or by your words you'll be condemned." See how the just speak wisdom. It is a necessary work and to do that work is speaking what is right. What is right is defined in the verse ;"I the Lord speak the truth I say what is right". So the truth is what is right.This is why the Lord says "Speak the truth to one another" and that is what Jesus taught us. Christianity does not teach this as a necessary work but Jesus did. That is why there is the verse "All those who do right shall rise to live..." You see the righteous do what is right that is why they are called righteous.

"The Lord is righteous and He loves righteous works."

"He who speaks the truth is the Lords delight and those who do what is right He loves."

beloved57
November 5th, 2012, 03:29 PM
princ


What Paul never said is that the just man speaks wisdom as in the verse

Do you understand my points in posts 4 and 5 ?

Princely
November 5th, 2012, 03:58 PM
princ



Do you understand my points in posts 4 and 5 ?

Yes. But to believe in the son of man is to do the works he did/does.

beloved57
November 5th, 2012, 04:02 PM
Yes. But to believe in the son of man is to do the works he did/does.

Ok, then explain what the points are I made in those posts ?

sky.
November 5th, 2012, 04:41 PM
In Ephesians 2:8, it's not the faith that is the gift; the Grace is the gift!!

That is a good point. I was taught that faith and belief in Christ are the same thing. Grace if offered to everyone but only applied by the work of the Holy Spirit to those who exercise their faith and believe.

By exercise I was taught that "the moment you believe" you are saved.

Grosnick Marowbe
November 5th, 2012, 04:59 PM
Beloved57 is a, "hyper-Calvinist!" His beliefs are extreme, that's why He's in his "own little camp!!'' He's what I would call a, "Calvinist cultist!!"

Princely
November 5th, 2012, 08:19 PM
Ok, then explain what the points are I made in those posts ?

What I get from your posts is that to believe that Jesus died for your sins will somehow make you righteous. But scripture does not back that up. Paul is a confuser. The blood of the son of man does save but His blood is the word as His flesh is the word. That is why scripture has it :"The words of the upright save them". It was so when that was written and still stands to this day. Without being born from above no one can see the kingdom of God. I'm sure you have read that, but Paul never said that and Jesus said He gave the words that the Father gave Him to His followers but Paul never spoke the words Jesus did except one time. That is what has people so confused. They are too busy following Paul and not the son of man.

Romans 5:19 is for heretics. Jesus death on the cross was merely a precursor for His resurrection. He was saying that if you continue in His teaching by doing the same works of God He did, like spreading the word as he did, you would rise from the dead. Being dead in spirit is not following Jesus footsteps and walking in the light as He did. Once everyone walks in the light of the Lord as He did He will come back. He's waiting.

Scripture says "The Lord is righteous", Jesus says "God is spirit". Jesus also said the words He spoke are spirit. So you can conclude from those verses that the Lord is His words. Then if the Lord is His words then His word is righteous because the "Lord is righteous and He loves righteous works". Then that is what makes you righteous, the word. But one must speak the word to be righteous because Jesus also said by your words you'll be justified or by your words you'll be condemned. That is why scripture says as the Lord says "The words of the Lord are upright and all His works are truthful, He loves justice and right."

It is written:

The Lord is faithful in all his words, and holy in all his works.

The Lord is just in all his ways, and holy in all his works. The Lord is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth.

I am the light of the world no one who follows me shall ever walk in darkness because they will possess the light of life. Jesus and I are One. He sent me. I came down from heaven to do His will not my own.

If you do not come to believe I Am son of man, you will surely die in your sin.

Grosnick Marowbe
November 6th, 2012, 12:27 AM
What I get from your posts is that to believe that Jesus died for your sins will somehow make you righteous. But scripture does not back that up. Paul is a confuser. The blood of the son of man does save but His blood is the word as His flesh is the word. That is why scripture has it :"The words of the upright save them". It was so when that was written and still stands to this day. Without being born from above no one can see the kingdom of God. I'm sure you have read that, but Paul never said that and Jesus said He gave the words that the Father gave Him to His followers but Paul never spoke the words Jesus did except one time. That is what has people so confused. They are too busy following Paul and not the son of man.

Romans 5:19 is for heretics. Jesus death on the cross was merely a precursor for His resurrection. He was saying that if you continue in His teaching by doing the same works of God He did, like spreading the word as he did, you would rise from the dead. Being dead in spirit is not following Jesus footsteps and walking in the light as He did. Once everyone walks in the light of the Lord as He did He will come back. He's waiting.

Scripture says "The Lord is righteous", Jesus says "God is spirit". Jesus also said the words He spoke are spirit. So you can conclude from those verses that the Lord is His words. Then if the Lord is His words then His word is righteous because the "Lord is righteous and He loves righteous works". Then that is what makes you righteous, the word. But one must speak the word to be righteous because Jesus also said by your words you'll be justified or by your words you'll be condemned. That is why scripture says as the Lord says "The words of the Lord are upright and all His works are truthful, He loves justice and right."

It is written:

The Lord is faithful in all his words, and holy in all his works.

The Lord is just in all his ways, and holy in all his works. The Lord is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth.

I am the light of the world no one who follows me shall ever walk in darkness because they will possess the light of life. Jesus and I are One. He sent me. I came down from heaven to do His will not my own.

If you do not come to believe I Am son of man, you will surely die in your sin.

You seek to degrade and diregard the Apostle Paul therefore, that makes you a heretic and false teacher!! You're also, a "nutcase extraordinaire!!"

beloved57
November 6th, 2012, 04:57 AM
prin


What I get from your posts is that to believe that Jesus died for your sins will somehow make you righteous.

Nope that is not what I stated, so you do not even understand what my posts are saying.

Until you can follow what I stated with scripture, there is no basis for debating what I did show from scripture !

beloved57
November 6th, 2012, 05:00 AM
Beloved57 is a, "hyper-Calvinist!" His beliefs are extreme, that's why He's in his "own little camp!!'' He's what I would call a, "Calvinist cultist!!"


You reject the Truth and teach a salvation by works, which is what the majority of false religion teaches ! You are on that broad way to destruction that many travel on Matt 7:13-14



13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The Truth I witness to is the very narrow way, few find it !

Princely
November 6th, 2012, 01:51 PM
You reject the Truth and teach a salvation by works, which is what the majority of false religion teaches ! You are on that broad way to destruction that many travel on Matt 7:13-14



13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The Truth I witness to is the very narrow way, few find it !

Paul is not the narrow way. I am the gate, anyone who enters by me will be saved. Have faith in God and faith in me. Jesus sent me.

Scripture has it; "One heart and one way is what I shall give them so they shall revere me always for their own good and the good of their children after them."

Those are not my words but the words of the Lord who sent me.He commanded me what to say and how to speak and since I know His commandment is eternal life what I say is spoken just as He commanded me. I do nothing on my own, I only say what the Lord has taught me for the One who sent me is with me He has not deserted me because I always do what pleases Him.

Grosnick Marowbe
November 6th, 2012, 02:18 PM
Paul is not the narrow way. I am the gate, anyone who enters by me will be saved. Have faith in God and faith in me. Jesus sent me.

Scripture has it; "One heart and one way is what I shall give them so they shall revere me always for their own good and the good of their children after them."

Those are not my words but the words of the Lord who sent me.He commanded me what to say and how to speak and since I know His commandment is eternal life what I say is spoken just as He commanded me. I do nothing on my own, I only say what the Lord has taught me for the One who sent me is with me He has not deserted me because I always do what pleases Him.

Either you're insane or you're trying to make yourself look greater than you are?? I vote for both!!

beloved57
November 6th, 2012, 03:15 PM
prince


Paul is not the narrow way.

Where do you see in that quote anytrhing about Paul being the narrow way ?

Princely
November 6th, 2012, 03:56 PM
Either you're insane or you're trying to make yourself look greater than you are?? I vote for both!!

Why would I say the things I do when people just reject me as they did Jesus. I tell you what the Lord commanded me. I am exactly what I declare. So I am either who I say I am and you reject the son of man who comes to separate the flock or I am not. If I am the son of man then surely if you do not put faith in me, you will die in your sin. "The son of man will come at a time you least expect". This is that time.

Grosnick Marowbe
November 6th, 2012, 10:44 PM
Why would I say the things I do when people just reject me as they did Jesus. I tell you what the Lord commanded me. I am exactly what I declare. So I am either who I say I am and you reject the son of man who comes to separate the flock or I am not. If I am the son of man then surely if you do not put faith in me, you will die in your sin. "The son of man will come at a time you least expect". This is that time.

You are a fraud, and a complete nutball!!

Grosnick Marowbe
November 6th, 2012, 10:54 PM
Princely insinuates he's some "specially chosen" messenger!! I believe he may have mental issues warping his sense of reason and logic!! Or perhaps someone who just likes to get on others nerves. Either way he's a complete nuisance!!

beloved57
December 2nd, 2012, 04:02 PM
Faith in Christ for Salvation is restricted to and is a Divine Summons to only those who are spiritually hungry for the bread of Life. This call to faith was even the case in the OT under the OC, for observe Isa 55:1-2

Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

2 Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that[Bread] which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.

Bread here is the Lord Jesus Christ and those OC Doctrines which set Him forth as the object of Faith Jn 8:56 !

In other words men do seek to come to God other than by a Election in Christ, For those who will believe and Trust in Christ, the bread from heaven Jn 6:32,33,41,50-51,58, they first need to be made to hunger for that bread or for His Righteousness as Per Matt 5:6.

The Righteousness here is Christ's Righteousness, the bread of life Jn 6:35

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

And it is the Holy Spirit who creates this Spiritual Hunger and Thirst for Christ, the Bread of Life and His Righteousness, as we see in Jn 16:8,10,14 !

And so pay attention, for those who truly have a Spiritual Hunger for the Bread of Life,and Christ's Righteousness, its all satisfied in Christ the Bread of Life, and Christ our Righteousness, and thus the Gospel reveals to such a Righteousness of God, revealed to from to faith, thus confirming Jesus promise Matt 5:6

6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

That word filled also means satisfied or fulfill as to fulfill a desire ! Also to feed !

They shall be fed by the Gospel sent to them revealing to them the Righteousness of God, which is Christ Righteousness Imputed to them, and now this being made known to them consciously to God given Faith, and this is how Faith in Christ is accomplished in the Purpose of God for Salvation !

beloved57
December 2nd, 2012, 08:55 PM
Many false teachers teach that Salvation is offered by the Gospel to all without exception, and that many to whom it is offered, that they just do not want it and so refuse it. This however is nothing but a lie, for the Salvation call is always directed to a specific set of characters like, Whosoever will [spiritual desire], but this call does exempt those who have no will to come as here Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. or whosoever is laboring and are heavy laden Matt 11:28

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. OR

Whosoever thirst Jn 7:37

In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

Matt 5:6

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

So for those who do not hunger and thirst, or who are not laboring and heavy laden, there is no call for them unto Faith in Christ.

To such Christ would not be precious, but unto us who believe, He is Precious 1 Pet 2:7

Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

The call to faith in Christ does not go out to any who are content and or indifferent in their sin. Do not be fooled by the deceivers; For listen, if you invite a hungry man to bread, he comes and eats, if you summon a thirsty man to drink, he thankfully comes and drinks, you summons a laboring burdened to rest and refreshment, he gladly receives it. If we recall Esau how he sold his birthright to his brother Jacob, it was while Esau was in a weary/ exhausted condition Gen 25:27-30

27 And the boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a plain man, dwelling in tents.

28 And Isaac loved Esau, because he did eat of his venison: but Rebekah loved Jacob.

29 And Jacob sod pottage: and Esau came from the field, and he was faint:

30 And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage; for I am faint: therefore was his name called Edom.

Notice Vs 29-30, when a person is weary, exhausted from working, his body craves or desires meat, rest and refreshment as Esau, such persons will not reject and treat with indifference that which they do desire and crave ! So it is in the Spiritual realm of things, with the Gospel feast, for it is prepared for them for whom God prepares them beforehand to receive it ! Lk 1:17

And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

2COR12:9
December 2nd, 2012, 10:45 PM
2 Peter 1:1 (NASB)
1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours,
by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:


a faith of the same kind as ours the gentiles, can now partake in the same saving faith as the Jews.


by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christmade available by the righteous act of Christ on the cross.

This passage is not intending imputed righteousness.

2COR12:9
December 2nd, 2012, 11:14 PM
2 Pet 1:1

Peter in this scripture does inform us where precious Faith comes from ! Its certainly not of ourselves Eph 2:8.



Every commentator I know of, according to the grammatical structure of the sentence in the Greek, the gift of God only refers to the grace by which you are saved. It does not make sense for it to refer to faith, the way it was written. Even your boy Calvin agrees, look it up.

However that doesn't mean that Faith can be produced apart from God, for even the ability to make a choice to believe is a gift. Though I know you're trying to imply in such a way that that only Faith can be enacted if God does it for us, then it would no longer be me having faith in God, but God believing in himself, and saying I had faith in God would be a lie. Faith in God has to be enacted on our part, enabled by God, in order for it to be genuine. Nowhere does it say God believes for us.

beloved57
December 3rd, 2012, 05:45 AM
Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


Every commentator I know of, according to the grammatical structure of the sentence in the Greek, the gift of God only refers to the grace

Faith is from the Grace, hence one believes by Grace the Gift of God Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

So it does not matter, the Grace is not of ourselves, so quite naturally neither is the Faith !

See where faith comes from also from 2 Pet 1:1


However that doesn't mean that Faith can be produced apart from God

Its a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22, one receives faith to believe from the New Birth !

1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

That lively Hope and Faith are one and the same, that is Hope is born out of Faith !

The scripture here is plain that this lively hope / faith comes from being begotten again. The word begotten here is the greek word anagennaō
which means:

produce again, be born again, born anew

2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

That new life is a Life of Faith opposesd to a life of unbelief !

Now I have presented this many many times before on this board !

beloved57
December 3rd, 2012, 05:52 AM
2 Cor 12:9


made available by the righteous act of Christ on the cross.

Thats a lie, what scripture says anything about being made available by the righteous act of Christ ?


This passage is not intending imputed righteousness It is, actually its the imparted Righteousness of Christ which is communicated at the New Birth !

beloved57
December 6th, 2012, 05:47 PM
Faith is a Gift of God's Favor to a person, in other words all for whom Christ died, even while being enemies in themselves, they had nevertheless been reconciled to God, strictly by the Death of His Son. Now to be reconciled also means to be received into God's Favor ! The word reconciled is the greek word katallassō and means:


to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value

a) to reconcile (those who are at variance)

b) return to favour with, be reconciled to one

c) to receive one into favour


Hence all those favored ones, God gives them Faith to know and understand what Christ has done for them by His blood !

Thats why Paul writes this Rom 8:32

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

That word give is the greek word charizomai which means to:

to do something pleasant or agreeable (to one), to do a favour to, gratify

a) to show one's self gracious, kind, benevolent

b) to grant forgiveness, to pardon

c) to give graciously, give freely, bestow

1) to forgive

2) graciously to restore one to another

3) to preserve for one a person in peril

And its the same word Paul uses here Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Its a must for all whom Christ died, for them to be given Faith in behalf of Christ, for them to believe upon Him for Salvation !

beloved57
December 7th, 2012, 08:56 PM
Isa 43:10

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Remember Jesus said Jn 17:3

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

And John also wrote 1 Jn 5:20

20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Every True Believer is one of God's Elect, and Faith or Believing is what they were Chosen unto, and not because of !

Lets look at 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Notice unto obedience, not because of obedience ! Now this obedience is Faith, meaning the obedience of Faith Rom 16:26

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Also 2 Thess 2:13 is to the same purport 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Princely
December 8th, 2012, 12:17 PM
Isa 43:10

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Remember Jesus said Jn 17:3

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.



What you fail to see is that the chosen are those who witness for the Lord and serve Him.

Another thing is that Jesus would have never called himself Jesus Christ in that other verse, that was added in. The verse goes like this;

"Now this is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and the One whom you sent."

The Lord says this;

I will change and purify the lips of the people so they shall all call upon the name of the Lord to serve Him with one accord."

beloved57
December 8th, 2012, 05:24 PM
All them of God's Elect shall obtain like precious Faith 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

This verse lets us know unquestionably that Faith is a Salvation Blessing and not something man has by nature !

And it is also termed the Faith of God's Elect, for its from God's Elect [Christ Isa 42:1] to God's Elect [ Those given to Him or Chosen in Him Eph 1:4]

It is peculiar only to them, so the Elect only obtain this precious faith, and the rest of mankind is blinded Rom 11:7

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

The Election obtained it by Faith that was given ! Paul said the blinded ones sought it not by Faith Rom 9:31-32

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

They were the Election !

The rest Paul writes were blinded Rom 11:7; And this being blinded prevents one from believing the Gospel of Christ 2 Cor 4:3-4

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

So it is upon the evidence of one believing that Paul could reasonably conclude that the Thessalonians were of the Election of Grace 1 Thess 1:4-6

4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.

Yes, their receiving or believing the Gospel in much affliction convinced Paul of their Election of God !

beloved57
December 10th, 2012, 06:52 AM
Something to know ! It is impossible for any sinner that Christ died for, to live and die an unbeliever. For such case would overthrow the purpose of God giving His Son Jn 3:16, and would have defeated the Purpose of His Saving Death. One scripture that confirms this Truth is the latter part of Rom 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The Just SHALL live by Faith !

The whole Truth of this stated assertion, hinges upon the word SHALL, a Promise of God's Word depending upon His Ability to perform it. Just like this statement Rom 4:20-21

20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

The promise being Gen 18:10-14

10 And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.

11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age; and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.

12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?

13 And the Lord said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?

14 Is any thing too hard for the Lord? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.

This is to Illustrate that God's Shall's are contingent upon His Ability to perform it.

So, that the Just shall live by Faith is of that same quality of promise !

Now who are the Just ? Its all whom Christ, by His Obedience made Righteous Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The word Righteous here is the same word Just in Rom 1:17b the greek word dikaios.

So the conclusion is That all for whom Christ died [His Obedience] shall be made to live by Faith ! This is brought about by God's Ability !

beloved57
December 11th, 2012, 01:00 PM
That Repentance [a change of mind] and Faith are of the same Essence / Substance, for this is shown here 2 Tim 2:25

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them[B] repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

That is repentance from God is unto discerning and acknowledging the Truth or belief of the Truth or Faith in it ! See Eph 1:13

Paul writes in Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Faith acknowledges God's Truth, which is what 2 Tim 2:25 means !

So in the Evangelical sense, this Repentance in Lk 24:47; Acts 5:31,11:18,17:30,20:21 is unto Faith or belief or acknowledgment of the Truth !

And Both must come from God 2 Tim 2:25

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Neither Faith or Repentance comes from within the Natural man as false teachers teach !

beloved57
December 21st, 2012, 08:53 AM
That Faith and Hope are of the same Essence or Substance, hope being born out of Faith, the Expectation of what Faith Reveals and causes Trust, well this is seen here 1 Pet 1:21

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Now notice how this purpose [of faith and hope in God] follows the fact of God's raising Christ from the dead [ His Resurrection See Vs 3] God gave Him Glory, so that they [to whom Peter was writing] would have Faith and Hope in God. This is the same referred to earlier in Vs 3 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Being begotten again unto a Lively Hope by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, so a Believers Faith and Hope is directly connected to and resultive of Christ's Resurrection from the Dead and His Glory.

Paul said in Eph 1:12

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

In other words, its to the Praise of Christ's Glory whenever one Trust's in Him for Salvation !

beloved57
January 8th, 2013, 08:18 AM
Faith is Spiritual , and its living [as in a lively hope 1 Pet 1:3] for it is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen ! This definition in and of itself confirms that the Natural Man cannot have Faith, because as so, we walk by sight 2 Cor 5:7

(For we walk by faith, not by sight )

Faith is the evidence of the Spiritual Life and without Spiritual Life there can be no Living Faith. The Blessed Saviour said once Jn 5:24

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Jesus is not saying if one believes they will get Eternal Life, no but quite the opposite, rather He s saying, the one believing, already has Everlasting Life, for ones believing gives Evidence of having Everlasting Life ! For Faith or the act of Believing does not produce Life, but Rather Life produces Faith.

There is no Spiritual Persuasion to one who is yet spiritually dead and alienated from the Life of God, and consequently have no life in them Jn 6:53

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Eating and Drinking are metaphorically symbolizing Believing on Christ, appropriating Him, acts of life, and ones not doing that give evidence of having no life [Spiritual] in them !

Jesus is not speaking of natural and physical life, for of course they had that !

beloved57
January 17th, 2013, 11:17 AM
Faith in Christ does not give us a spiritual union with Christ, but is the evidence of such a Union with Christ. For faith is the evidence of things hoped for Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

And so it is Faith cannot be the thing it evidences as a reality,and the reality that is unseen must exist before . Now the Reality is that believers, before believing were the Children of God by Union with Christ. Yes we are already Children of God by Union before Believing on Christ which is the evidence of that Union.

And it is because of that Union with Christ before we become believers, of which we are the Children of God, God sends His Spirit in our Hearts Gal 4:6

6 And because ye are sons r descendants, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

By which Spirit we receive a witness to ourselves that we are the Children of God Rom 8:16

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

And so, those who do believe in Jesus have the witness in themselves 1 Jn 5:10

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness or evidence in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

The Spirit being given as in Gal 4:6 is the Evidence that we had a Union with Christ before believing that we were by that Union, Children of God. We were Joint Heirs with Christ in the Eternal Counsels of God ! Rom 8:17

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

That word Joint denotes Union with Christ !

beloved57
January 20th, 2013, 06:47 PM
One of the most obvious truths of scripture, which is that New Birth or being born of the Spirit must have first occurred before one can believe on Christ for Salvation, this is true simply because such an act is pleasing to God Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


1 Jn 3:22-23

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Now surely from here we see that Believing on the Name of Jesus Christ is a commandment we do or keep that pleases God.

And yet we know that they which are in the flesh [Unregenerate] cannot please God Per Rom 8:8 !

Hence if one does please God by by believing on the name of Jesus Christ, then it stands to reason, that such a one had to be not in the flesh, not in a unregenerate state, but one who instead that had been born of the Spirit be able to do it and to please God !

beloved57
February 12th, 2013, 06:48 PM
All those Christ died for are given a portion or dealt a portion of His Faith, The Faith of the Son of God Gal 2:20

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

By which He in their stead and in their behalf overcome the World Jn 16:33

33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Now understand, Jesus statement here is not as a Private Individual Person, but as an Head and Representative of His Church, and the Overcoming Faith that He has, it is communicated to All His Members in the New Birth and so they become overcomer's by their Gift of Faith given them from Him, the faith of the Son of God 1 Jn 5:4-5

4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Its easy to see here that the Faith is born of God !

In the original Faith of the Son of God is genitive which means:


For the most part, the genitive is often viewed as the case of possession. In more technical terms one noun in the genitive case helps to qualify another noun by showing its "class" or "kind". The genitive case has more uses than most other cases, but in general a noun in the genitive case helps to limit the scope of another noun by indicating its "kind" or "class".

http://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/nouns1.htm

Thats what Kind of Faith Paul had " Of the Son of God" which is a overcoming Faith !

Lazy afternoon
February 12th, 2013, 08:08 PM
One of the most obvious truths of scripture, which is that New Birth or being born of the Spirit must have first occurred before one can believe on Christ for Salvation, this is true simply because such an act is pleasing to God Heb 11:6

!


Act 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

beloved57
February 13th, 2013, 05:07 AM
Act 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Ok Your point for posting that scripture in light of the comment I had previously made or you just quoted ?

Epoisses
February 13th, 2013, 09:22 AM
2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Peter in this scripture does inform us where precious Faith comes from ! Its certainly not of ourselves Eph 2:8.

It comes in or with the Righteousness of God and Our Saviour, this Righteousness is the free gift that Christ purchased and bestows upon all for whom He died Rom 5:17

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ)

This Righteousness as well as that referred to in 2 Pet 1:1 is the imparted Righteousness of Christ we receive at New Birth. It is through this imparted or communicated Righteousness at New Birth we receive of, that with it we are given precious Faith.

Peter goes on to say 2 Pet 1:3-4

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Faith or precious Faith is of the many things Given to us by New Birth which gives us to live a life of godliness !

So 2 Pet 1:1 is but another scripture that proves biblically that Faith is the product of New Birth, partaking experimentally of the Divine Nature !

Jesus demanded faith from every person that he performed miracles for. Faith is a gift from God and the Holy Spirit but it can be exercised or hid under a bushel.

The new birth happens in the lives of some and not others. This is proof that even in our sinful state we can still exercise faith and surrender to the Holy Spirit or resist and die. This is not proof that God predestined some to salvation and not others.

As I already said you make Jesus into a liar with this belief. How could he command us to love our enemies when he himself was not even willing to die for his enemies (non-elect). Calvinism turns a loving and just savior into a bigoted tyrant who treats sinners with disdain.

beloved57
February 25th, 2013, 02:19 PM
Jn 1:12-13

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

They that believed on His Name, did so, because #1 It had been given to them to believe on Him for His Sake Phil :29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

And #2 Because they had been born of God. " They were Spiritual offspring

The word born in the greek is γεννάω passive indicative and it means:

I beget, bring forth, give birth to


properly, beget (procreate a descendant), produce offspring; (passive) be born, "begotten."

They were born of God passively in order to believe on His Name, because its commanded 1 Jn 3:23


23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Now this is True,[ that they were born passively in order to believe on His Name because its commanded] because by nature they would be only of the flesh [not having been born again] and in that condition we cannot ,please God or be subject to His Commands Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law/command of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

And Believing on God's Son is pleasing God 1 Jn 3:2-23

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Who in their right mind can deny that keeping the commandment to believe on the Name of God's Son is pleasing in God's sight from this passage ! Which pleasing man cannot do in the flesh Rom 8:8.

Also Faith is pleasing to God Heb 11:6


6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

But this cannot be done if we are merely in the flesh, Hence, thats why to believe in His Name, one must have been born of God Jn 1:12-13 !

beloved57
March 18th, 2013, 08:33 PM
Zech 12:10

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

It appears clear from this text that faith to look to see the Son Jn 6:40 and godly sorrow unto repentance 2 Cor 7:10, that these are the effects of the Spirit being poured out upon them in regeneration and new birth which we are saved by like stated in Titus 3:5-6

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed [poured] on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

beloved57
March 18th, 2013, 09:49 PM
The Blessings of Christ death for those He did die for and in behalf of, will cause them to believe in Him, For believing in Christ is given to them He died for, on His Behalf Phil 1:29. God makes them believe as promised here Zep 3:12

12 I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the Lord.

And Romans 15:12

12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

Or in Him shall the gentiles seek as in Faith. The word Trust is the same word hope as in Heb 11:1,6

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

OMEGA
March 18th, 2013, 10:14 PM
2 Pet 1:1

1. God and Jesus Christ are righteousness and want you to be Righteous too.

2. You are righteous when baptism washes your Past Sins away.


3. Jesus did righteousness all his Life and we must do that too.

This Righteousness as well as that referred to in 2 Pet 1:1 is
the imparted Righteousness of Christ we receive at New Birth.
It is through this imparted or communicated Righteousness at
New Birth we receive of, that with it we are given precious
Faith.

-----------Sounds NICE BUT NO CIGAR--:cigar:.---------

Peter goes on to say 2 Pet 1:3-4

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things
that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of
him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

--What did HE give to US. === His MIND to help us Overcome our Proclivity to Sin !!---

1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord,

But we have the mind of Christ.

partakers of the divine nature == WE ARE GOING TO BE GODS.----"YE ARE GODS."-SONS OF THE MOST HIGH."

Faith or precious Faith is of the many things Given to us by
New Birth which gives us to live a life of godliness !

-------???????????????????--------

So 2 Pet 1:1 is but another scripture that proves biblically
that Faith is the product of New Birth, partaking
experimentally of the Divine Nature !

---- WRONG === faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


------Ro 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written,
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

beloved57
April 4th, 2013, 10:55 PM
Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Faith in God and Christ is a matter of Mercy , in other words, in order to become a believer in Christ for Salvation, we must obtain Mercy, or God must have Mercy on us. Paul says 1 Tim 12-13

12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

Salvation is undeserved, Faith in Christ is undeserved, and God's Mercy finds us in unbelief or disobedience and ignorance !

Paul is saying nothing nothing different than what he wrote here to the Romans Rom 11:30-32

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy[To believe] through their unbelief:

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy[To believe].

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

This shows us actually that instead of of faith or believing being conditions one must meet to become saved or to get mercy, instead being in unbelief and disobedience is the condition one must be in to obtain mercy that saves us. That we are saved by Mercy is Taught here Titus 3:5

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Many adversaries of the Truth will say that God does not save unbelievers, but in fact what has been just testified to in scripture proves, evidences that He does, for if He did not, there would be no need of His Mercy, and there would never be any believers, for believers are unbelievers saved by God's Mercy !

beloved57
April 19th, 2013, 06:31 PM
Eph 2:8

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Religionists, no matter what, believe that Salvation is of themselves. However, that Faith is not of man that believeth, but by the Grace and Power of God, can not be more plainer than here written in Rom 11:18-20

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

The standing by Faith is not anything we do, so it excludes boasting, as something man does as a condition to get saved ! Faith is part of the grafting in procedure that God does. Yes Vs 18 above excludes boasting for faith as well as Eph 2:9

The only way one can stand by faith is by God's Ability, not by the flesh. The word stand in Vs 20 is the greek word histēmi:

to cause or make to stand, to place, put, set

So they were caused or made to stand by Faith !

The same word is used here Rom 14:4

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

God is able and does enable according to His Purpose, those He so desires to stand by Faith as in Rom 11:20

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

That should humble us, but it doesn't, because religionists erroneously believe the faith they stand by is of themselves, which makes them boasters !

Epoisses
April 19th, 2013, 07:45 PM
Do you believe that Jesus came into the world to save sinners?

beloved57
April 20th, 2013, 03:53 AM
Jn 17:19-20

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Even though many do not realize it here, but Jesus is praying that all for whom He died, which is the meaning of sanctifying Himself here, He prays is praying for them to receive the Gift of Faith, and this petition of Christ is the primary reason all for whom He died shall be Sanctified by the Spirit of Truth unto the Belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Folks it is impossible for anyone that Christ died for, whom He sanctified Himself for Jn 17:19-20, for them not to by the Work of the Spirit, believe the Truth of the word of Truth, if so, then His petition here in Jn 17:19-20 as well as His Death were of no avail. However His Death does ensure that all for whom He died has true Light communicated unto them Jn 1:9

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man[Whom He died for] that cometh into the world.

The word lighteth here is the greek word phōtizō and means:


) to give light, to shine

2) to enlighten, light up, illumine

3) to bring to light, render evident

a) to cause something to exist and thus come to light and become clear to all

4) to enlighten, spiritually, imbue with saving knowledge

a) to instruct, to inform, teach

b) to give understanding to


This is also what Paul means here 2 Cor 4:6

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Thats the True Light of Jn 1:9 that gives the Knowledge of Christ through the Gospel, a Saving Knowledge which Faith is an component of !

beloved57
April 20th, 2013, 03:56 AM
Do you believe that Jesus came into the world to save sinners?

Uh, lets stay on topic here . No rabbit trails. Now did you understand post 47 and the points I made ?

beloved57
April 21st, 2013, 04:12 AM
A quick recap, the Lord Jesus Christ in Jn 17:19-20 in His Petition statement that by His sanctifying Himself that they whom He is dying for may as a result be Sanctified through the Truth See Vs 17 too ! In this statement Jesus is petitioning their Faith and belief of the Truth. There basically is no difference in their being Sanctified through the Truth or being Sanctified by Faith Acts 26:18

18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and [B]inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Yes, this here is the effect of what Jesus requested in Jn 17:19-20 !

Its the Spirit that accomplishes this work on behalf of Christ's death and its accomplishment, for He is sent into the world Christ died for by the Father and through Christ, and to them He is a Spirit of Truth that the world at large cannot receive Jn 14:17

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

That being the world that Christ did not pray for Jn 17:9 and so did not die for ! But for that World he died for and prayed for He is sent as the Spirit of Truth Jn 16:13

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you [The Church, His Body] into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

He to them brings the Spirit of Faith 2 Cor 4:13

We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

Notice here, the Spirit of Faith precedes believing what is written. The Gospel is composed of things that had been written as in scripture See 1 Cor 15:3-4 !

So thats why a Sanctification of the Spirit is necessary and given to the Elect, those Christ died for, unto the Belief or Faith in the Truth 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

If one is not experimentally Set apart by the Spirit, producing in them the fruit of Faith Gal 5:22, they will never in a savingly way believe the Gospel Truth ! But all whom Christ sanctified Himself in behalf shall believe it ! Jn 18:37

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Jn 10:16

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

beloved57
April 25th, 2013, 08:25 PM
All those who have been Chosen to Salvation from the beginning, they have also been Chosen to Faith or Belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Therefore all them Whom God Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4 shall be given Faith to believe the Truth, no ifs buts, or maybes about it, its sure ! This is an indictment against any and all who teach that no one is Chosen to Believe the Truth in Fact thats why its called the Faith of God's Elect Titus 1:1, for Faith and Election go hand and hand !

beloved57
May 10th, 2013, 06:28 AM
1 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Before any person can savingly believe the Glorious Gospel of God, he or she must first be rescued or delivered out of the power of satan and his darkness, which blinds the minds of them which believe not.

Acts 26:18

18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Col 1:13

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Thats deliverance from unbelief, being delivered from the power of darkness !

The word darkness is the greek word skotos:

darkness

a) of night darkness

b) of darkened eyesight or blindness

2) metaph.

a) of ignorance respecting divine things and human duties, and the accompanying ungodliness and immorality, together with their consequent misery in hell

b) persons in whom darkness becomes visible and holds sway

Its this blindness one must be delivered from, blinded by satan, the god of this world 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

We must be delivered from that blindness of mind before we can believe the Glorious Gospel.

Now either God delivered us or we delivered ourselves. If we say we believed before we were saved and in order to get saved, then we believe we saved ourselves out of the power of darkness and bondage of satan !

beloved57
May 14th, 2013, 08:13 AM
2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

The religionist are always boasting about their faith, as if precious Faith is that which man contributes as an act of theirs to secure their salvation, for that is such pride and boastful arrogance. The word describing faith here is precious, its the greek word isotimos which means:


equally precious

2) equally honoured, to be esteemed equal to


Its made up of Two root words isos:

equal, in quantity or quality

and timē:


valuing by which the price is fixed

a) of the price itself

b) of the price paid or received for a person or thing bought or sold

2) honour which belongs or is shown to one

a) of the honour which one has by reason of rank and state of office which he holds

The emphasis is on the value of the Faith and the like privilege of the Faith

It can also read:


From Simeon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ, have been granted a faith just as precious as ours.

b) deference, reverence

Notice that precious is an adjective describing faith, and to be sure there is nothing precious or of value in the flesh of man, the natural man. Jesus says Jn 6:63

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Rom 3:12

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable or good for nothing; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Now does man , who in the flesh, as pertaining to godward things, is good for nothing, does that sound like precious Faith, which believes on Christ, comes from the flesh ? God forbid, thats Blasphemy.

The Truth be told is this, Precious Faith can never, not in a trillion years, be found in one who is flesh, dead in trespasses and sins, what can possible be Precious about such a one or in such a one ? Matt 23:27

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

Jess said this to perhaps the most moral and religious people of His Day. He once said of them from a human moral perspective Matt 5:20

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Their lives outwardly and unto men appeared as beautiful outward, thats what successful religion does, it impresses men naturally !

But none of that foolishness impresses God, and none of it is precious in His Sight, or of any Value, and whatever type faith comes of it, is no more than that of a devil !

TheWingsOfWisdom
May 14th, 2013, 09:58 AM
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

How do you know if your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees?

Epoisses
May 14th, 2013, 10:38 AM
How do you know if your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees?

If it's better than what you have then it exceeds. Because what you have is garbage.

TheWingsOfWisdom
May 14th, 2013, 10:42 AM
If it's better than what you have then it exceeds. Because what you have is garbage.
You need to seek out a man of God, who has the power of the Holy Ghost that can cast out demons.

Epoisses
May 14th, 2013, 10:50 AM
You need to seek out a man of God, who has the power of the Holy Ghost that can cast out demons.

You need to go back to your 'synagogue of Satan' with Jezebel your queen.

beloved57
May 14th, 2013, 11:12 AM
Therefore, Precious Faith that has to do with Salvation, with Faith in the Messiah, its obtained or received by being a alloted Gift of God, and that only to His Elect !

The CJB:

To: Those who, through the righteousness of our God and of our Deliverer Yeshua the Messiah, have been given the same kind of trust as ours:

The ERV:

Greetings from Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ.

To all of you who share in the same valuable faith that we have. This faith was given to us because our God and Savior Jesus Christ always does what is good and right.

The GNT:

To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have been given a faith as precious as ours:


Its an Gift of God Eph 2:8; Titus 1:1-2; The word obtained in 2 Pet 1:11 is lagchano:

obtain (receive) by lot, my lot (turn) is, (b) I draw lots.

to receive by divine allotment

Now lets understand what an allotment is. The word is not in scripture, but the word lot is See Ps 16:5.

The english word means:

to assign as a portion,the part of an estate that goes to an heir or a next of kin,to furnish with a portion, as with an inheritance or a dowry

Precious Believing Faith is an portion of an assigned Inheritance.

A Family Inheritance, and it that sense its a Gift Bestowed on the Heirs of that Inheritance.

Now what this means is that Faith is an alloted Gift, a portion of an Inheritance, to all the Heirs of Promise Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. or

Children of Promise Rom 9:8

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

And all the Heirs or Seed obtain by allotment Precious Faith through the Righteousness of their God Man Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ 2 Pet 1:1

TheWingsOfWisdom
May 14th, 2013, 11:20 AM
Therefore, Precious Faith that has to do with Salvation, with Faith in the Messiah, its obtained or received by being a alloted Gift of God, and that only to His Elect !

The CJB:

To: Those who, through the righteousness of our God and of our Deliverer Yeshua the Messiah, have been given the same kind of trust as ours:

The ERV:

Greetings from Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ.

To all of you who share in the same valuable faith that we have. This faith was given to us because our God and Savior Jesus Christ always does what is good and right.

The GNT:

To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have been given a faith as precious as ours:


Its an Gift of God Eph 2:8; Titus 1:1-2; The word obtained in 2 Pet 1:11 is lagchano:

obtain (receive) by lot, my lot (turn) is, (b) I draw lots.

to receive by divine allotment

Now lets understand what an allotment is. The word is not in scripture, but the word lot is See Ps 16:5.

The english word means:

to assign as a portion,the part of an estate that goes to an heir or a next of kin,to furnish with a portion, as with an inheritance or a dowry

Precious Believing Faith is an portion of an assigned Inheritance.

A Family Inheritance, and it that sense its a Gift Bestowed on the Heirs of that Inheritance.

Now what this means is that Faith is an alloted Gift, a portion of an Inheritance, to all the Heirs of Promise Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. or

Children of Promise Rom 9:8

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

And all the Heirs or Seed obtain by allotment Precious Faith through the Righteousness of their God Man Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ 2 Pet 1:1

When you watch grown men play the game of football do you do it in FAITH IN CHRIST?

beloved57
May 15th, 2013, 06:25 AM
When you watch grown men play the game of football do you do it in FAITH IN CHRIST?


You quoted post 59, but evaded all the points thereof, please rehearse each point with me !

beloved57
May 15th, 2013, 07:34 AM
Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,


The Spirit is the Fruit of Christ's Death Jn 12:24

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Most religionist in their desire to boast, reject the Truth that Faith to believe in Christ for Salvation, that its the fruit, the operation of the Spirit in one for whom Christ died Phil 1:29; 2:13 and it is not a natural mans response to the Gospel or some offer !

For it takes this fruit of Faith given by the Spirit, or it can be called the Spirit of Faith 2 Cor 4:13

13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

13 The Tanakh says, “I trusted, therefore I spoke.” Since we have that same Spirit who enables us to trust, we also trust and therefore speak;

The Same Spirit that produced Faith in the OT Saints does also in the NT Saints in accordance with what is written in the scripture !

The Spirit gives persuasion and reality to the Divine Testimony or Report, which causes such Testimony to have a deep impression on the renewed mind [for you cannot put New Wine into Old Bottles] receiving the Testimony of God.

When it comes to Salvation, the Gospel is God's testimony to one who has been saved by His Son's Blood 1 Thess 2:13

13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Believing the Gospel of Salvation also has an element of entrusting or committing oneself in Gospel Obedience which the natural man of the flesh cannot do Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God

Now understand something about the law of God in Vs7. This word is not restricted to the mosaic law, but its meaning is much broader, for instance its defined as nomos:

usage, custom, law; in NT: of law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general.

any system of religious thinking (theology), especially when nomos occurs without the Greek definite article.

Notice, the Old Testament scriptures in General is considered Law, and the Gospel is Preached from the Old Testament Scriptures according to Paul 1 Cor 15:1-4

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

During Paul's time only the OT Scriptures had been completed.

So to Believe Savingly into what the Scriptures reveal, would have been impossible for those yet in the flesh and carnal ! Only God given Faith by God the Spirit, the fruit of New Birth can and does cause one to Believe !

beloved57
May 20th, 2013, 01:57 PM
Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

This Faith is not that which is of the human nature, the natural man, or of the flesh. This is True because its gives evidence of things not seen by the natural eye, and the natural man is not capacitated to walk outside of its realm of creation, which is natural and things that are seen, for which reason Paul can say only to the regenerate or born again, We walk by Faith and not by Sight 2 Cor 5:5-7

5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight )

To begin a Walk by Faith we must first have been Given the Spirit.

The natural man can no more have this Faith [ Heb 11:1] in God as can a elephant ! Man by nature are as beasts. You can preach the Gospel of God to an elephant all day long, and it will never be able to believe it, so it is with the natural man, not born of the Spirit. Man before a miraculous New Birth is only natural 1 Cor 15:46

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

That's why it is written, 1 Jn 5:1

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

In the original it would read " whosoever is believing that Jesus is the Christ, has been born of God !

In other words, the believing in the Christos is an evidence of having been born of God. For its not until one is born again that we can believe things not discerned by human reason or sense 1 Cor 2:13-15

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. Note: Paul is speaking of the Gospel as the things he speaks !

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

This is key, notice, he that is spiritual Judgeth all things, that is Doctrines of the Gospel.

The judging here is not natural matters, but spiritual matters, Spiritual Gospel Truths, Spiritual realties of the Person and Work of Jesus Christ, Christ Crucified as stipulated in Vs 2 of the same passage 1 Cor 2:2

And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

2 For I determined not to know any thing among you,[B] save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

And Natural Human Faith cannot understand the Truths regarding this, but only a God Given Faith such as described in Heb 11:1,6 !

beloved57
May 22nd, 2013, 03:50 PM
Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified (praised and gave thanks for) the Word of God; and as many as were destined (appointed and ordained) to eternal life believed (adhered to, trusted in, and relied on Jesus as the Christ and their Savior).

48 This message made the Gentiles glad, and they praised what they had heard about the Lord. Everyone who had been chosen for eternal life then put their faith in the Lord.

The False teachers of our day would pervert this text and have it mean, as many as did believe were ordained to Eternal Life, but that is called wresting scripture, which all who do such, shall shortly give in account in the day of Judgment.

Believing because of having been ordained to eternal life is of the same Truth s that of being ordained to walk in good works Eph 2:10

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

10 For we are God’s [own] handiwork (His workmanship), recreated in Christ Jesus, that we may do those good works [B]which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live]. AMP

For Believing is merely one of many of those Good Works God ordained the Chosen in Christ [Eph 1:4] to walk in . To walk in Faith as their Father Abraham Rom 4:12

And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Because they were Abraham's Seed Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Hence they are the Elect to Faith Obedience through Sanctification of the Spirit 1 Pet 1:2

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience [of faith] and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

And that this Obedience is Faith or belief of the Truth is confirmed in Paul's similar comment here 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Its the obedience of Faith that the Spirit causes in them Rom 16:26

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Yes, that's the Blessing of Abraham Gen 17:5

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

So those believing in Jn 3:16 are exactly those ordained to Eternal Life Acts 13:48, who had been ordained to walk in Good Works like their Father Abraham Jn 8:39

They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Believing is a Work, and a Good Work. Who can deny that Abraham's Works consisted mostly in evidences of His Faith or Believing God ?

Believing is a work, a act of the Mind or Heart, an obedience, however in this case its the act of the Newly Created man or woman Eph 2:10

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Yes, we must First be Created unto the Good Work of Faith or Believing, then we can walk in the Faith of our Father Abraham !

beloved57
May 27th, 2013, 07:19 AM
The Natural Man cannot believe in Christ !

How can the Natural man, he that has never been born again of the Spirit of God, how can such a one believe into Christ, resulting from an Gospel Command 1 Jn 3:23

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

For scripture states plainly of the Natural Man Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law / Command of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Does Believing on Christ Please God ? Yes, Look at 1 Jn 3:22


22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep[give heed to] his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

Now how can anyone born only of the flesh, meaning by natural childbirth alone, Jn 3:6

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

How can such a one have a mind set on anything other than things of the flesh ? The Mindset is only consistent with what we are by nature. The Mindset of an Gorilla can only be that of an Gorilla and not a Sparrow, Two different natures ! If we are of the Flesh, the mind set is set on things of the Flesh,which mindset Paul says is enmity against God, and so enmity against Christ !! and thats just the way it is,so the remedy Jesus states Jn 3:6-7

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Even the mindset man had in the beginning, in Adam, it was enmity against God, evidenced when tempted by the serpent !65

beloved57
May 29th, 2013, 12:29 PM
Faith in Christ and Repentance towards God Acts 20:21

21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Faith in Christ and Repentance toward God are acts from those who have a much superior quality of life given them than the life they had from adam, or out of the flesh. They are acts indicative of having Spiritual Life from Christ communicated to them by His Spirit.

Its only an Holy Life that can respond to a Holy Calling 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

With a Holy Faith Jude 1:20

20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Such would require a True Holy Man already Created Eph 4:24

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

That's the man who responds in Faith to the Holy Calling 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

beloved57
May 30th, 2013, 09:31 AM
Faith in Jesus Christ and Repentance toward God are blessings of the Everlasting Covenant or at times termed The Covenant of Grace, or The New Covenant, which is ordered in all things which pertain to Salvation, which the saintly David acknowledged 2 Sam 23:5

5 Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.

That word ordered is the Hebrew word `arak and means:

to arrange, set or put or lay in order, set in array, prepare, order, ordain,

The Triune Covenant God has provided in it [Everlasting Covenant] all that is needed and required for full Salvation to be experienced by all the Elect, from Time to Eternity, which does include believing on Christ Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

This could very well and truthfully read "For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ to believe on him ".

When ungodly men teach that Faith in Christ is an condition performed by men to secure their Salvation, they corrupt the Covenant, and Pervert its Blessedness.

That both Faith and Repentance are blessings of the New or Everlasting Covenant is pointed out in these words Ezk 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Its then we are made meet to obey the Gospel ordinances [ a decree or command] Gospel Commands of God Acts 17:30

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now [God] commandeth all men every where to repent:

1 Jn 3:23

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Acts 16:31

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Believe here is an Gospel imperative, a command ! If this Gospel Imperative is obeyed its because of this Ezk 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

beloved57
May 31st, 2013, 10:10 PM
Before a person can believe in Christ unto salvation, a new creature he or she must be ! By being a New Creation, we are given by the Spirit both light and Life, by which we receive New Spiritual faculties appropriate to receive Spiritual and Divine Truths. That's why Jesus said that he with good ground received the word and understandeth it Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

That's because the New Spiritual faculties of the New Creation.

It is then also we are given spiritual eyes to see Jesus Jn 6:40

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Heb 2:9

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.


But we see Jesus,.... Not with bodily eyes, but with the eyes of the mind, and understanding; that he is Jesus, as the Syriac version reads; and that he is designed in the above words; and that he has all things made subject unto him; and that he was humbled, and now exalted, as follows: JG

It is then we receive spiritual ears to hear the glad tidings of the Gospel of our Salvation Eph 1:13 We need to be of God to hear God's words as such is the Gospel Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

We cannot be of God without having God's Life in Us by His Spirit ! We are given a spiritual palate to begin to hunger and thirst for the things of God Matt 5:6

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Yes, even the word of righteousness Heb 5:13

For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

Without these things from a New Life, and are remaining natural and in the flesh, then we are war and enmity with Christ and the hings of God Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


14 But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.AMP

beloved57
June 2nd, 2013, 04:17 PM
Those who believe the Truth of God, the Gospel when sent to them in the providence of God, its because they were or had been ordained to Eternal Life. Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified (praised and gave thanks for) the Word of God; and as many as were destined (appointed and ordained) to eternal life believed (adhered to, trusted in, and relied on Jesus as the Christ and their Savior).AMP

48 This message made the Gentiles glad, and they praised what they had heard about the Lord. Everyone who had been chosen for eternal life then put their faith in the Lord.CEV

The word chosen is appropriate in that its meaning is one selected or appointed or chosen for an office. All whom Christ died for had been chosen for an spiritual priesthood. Christ by His Blood converts those He died for into a royal priesthood. Rev 1:5-6

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Heb 7:5

And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

1 Pet 2:5

Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Being chosen to this royal priesthood we were ordained to Eternal Life and to believe.

Each chosen member of this priesthood, being such they are beforehand prepared by the Holy Spirit, which is also called by Paul 2 Thess 3:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Those who were prearranged to Eternal Life in the Eternal Counsels of God, are in time set apart by a work of the Holy Spirit, to believe the Truth of the Gospel !

beloved57
June 11th, 2013, 09:49 PM
Rom 10:17

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Now a great many appeal to this, but its doubted that its really understood by them. Faith comes by Hearing the Word of God or the Word of Christ, or the Word of Truth. Now understand, everything we hear from preachers today is not the Word of God, or Truth or of Christ, and therefore our believing is not True Faith, because True Faith acknowledges the Truth, and is persuaded of the Truth Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

That word acknowledging is the greek word epignósis:


knowledge of a particular point (directed towards a particular object); perception, discernment, recognition, intuition.

Its a recognition of the Truth or a discernment of it. Remember Paul says this of the Gospel Truth 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned or recognized.

Now let me be more clear, if we have embraced or believed a supposed gospel message that states that Christ died for everyone sins in the World without exception, or that God Loves all people without exception, then quite simply we have not heard and believed the Word of God, or of Truth or of Christ, so consequently that's not the Faith written of in Rom 10:17. Faith does not cometh by hearing the word of men. That Christ died for all without exception or God Loved every human being, those things are not the Word of God. So that's not the Faith of God's Elect that cometh by Hearing.

beloved57
June 12th, 2013, 06:52 AM
There simply is no Gospel Conversion [which is what Rom 10:17 means] apart from acknowledging the Truth Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

1 Tim 2:4

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Tim 2:25

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

And apart from the Truth of the True Gospel,there is no True Faith from hearing. True Faith which is given by the Spirit of Truth can only be stirred into action by God's Truth, the Word of Truth Eh 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

There must be true and accurate scriptural facts set forth as to the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. Paul says that His Gospel was according to scripture 1 Cor 15:3-4

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

The scripture of Truth Dan 10:21


But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

It must be the Truth about the Redemption He gives Lk 1:68

Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people [The Elect or those He foreknew Rom 11:2],

There must be the Truth of His Person as God-Man 1 Tim 3:16

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.CP Jn 1:1,14

Matt 1:23

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Also the Truth about what He accomplished for His People as God-Man, the message is incomplete without specifying who His Redemptive Work was in behalf of, which is God's Elect, or the Church the Body of Christ or the Sheep, again this cannot go unspecified. Without these biblical facts set forth from the scripture, we are not preaching the Word of Truth, which only incites the Hearing of Faith. The Word of Truth is never set forth in any given setting in its entirety, but its a constant continuum of declaring the Whole Counsel of God Acts 20:24-27

24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.

27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

That word declare means to rehearse:

to relate the facts or particulars of; recount.

God uses the Gospel to establish the believer the rest of their pilgrimage upon earth Rom 16:25

Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

beloved57
June 12th, 2013, 08:03 AM
The Faith that is the Gift and Fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22, born out of the Spirit is a infallible Faith, one which will not embrace lies, but it is custom for the reception of only the Truth.

Its a grace of the Spirit suitable only for Divine Revelation to be received, and not the wisdom of men, for this Faith cannot believe a Lie, for its the Faith of God's Elect. So Jesus can say of them that have it this Jn 10:4-5

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

This Faith is given custom made to hear only the voice of their Saviour " They know His Voice"

Jesus says of His Elect also Matt 24:24

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Remember Jn 10:4-5, So that's basically the meaning of Matt 24:24, The God given Faith will not cleave to lies.

beloved57
June 18th, 2013, 04:31 PM
Faith is part of True Repentance,and True Repentance is part of Faith. For True God given repentance is to acknowledge the Truth 2 Tim 2:25

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

That's very important to understand. We have no repentance toward God while embracing lies and false gospels. An acknowledgment of the Truth is a knowing and belief of it without a doubt.

The knowing of the Truth is an experiential knowing with the heart, not a mere nominal knowing as here 2 Pet 2:20-21

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Also Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Note: Acknowledging the Truth is Godliness !

2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Repentance and Acknowledging the Truth are effects of the Spirit's Sanctification of us.

So when Peter Preaches that the risen and ascended Saviour Christ gives Repentance to Israel [God's Elect of both jews and gentiles] Acts 5:31, that does involve giving also to Israel [The Elect] belief in or an Acknowledgment of the Truth ! We cannot separate what God hath joined together.

beloved57
June 19th, 2013, 12:31 PM
To some it has not been given to them to believe the Gospel, but to some it has been See Matt 13:11; Mk 4:11 and Phil 1:29. Mk 4:11 also adds the comment to them which are without Mk 4:11

11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Matt 13:11

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Now one may object and say that Jesus is speaking of the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven and not the Gospel; but that s but a foolish and unlearned reply, because they are the same. Yes Gospel Truths and or Mysteries are the same as the Kingdom of Heaven Mysteries. One would be hard press to separate The Gospel which is a Mystery Eph 6:19, The Mystery of Christ Eph 3:4,which is joined with Preaching Christ in the Gospel Rom 16:25

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

In other words to Preach Christ now under the New Covenant dispensation, and not Preach the Mystery of Christ, it is to Preach a half Christ which is no Christ at all. The Mystery of the Faith is the Gospel 1 Tim 3:9; Here Paul means the entire Counsel of God in the Salvation Purpose Acts 20:24-27 and the combination of all these these things forms the Gospel of the Kingdom of God, which is inclusive offal the various Mysteries, and its given to know to only some, to know the Mysteries of the Kingdom !

beloved57
June 25th, 2013, 12:19 PM
Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith here is of Divine and Heavenly origin John 3:27

27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

James 1:17

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

It is by the Righteousness of God their Saviour they have obtained it 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

The word obtained means:

to receive by divine allotment, obtain

Faith is of Divine Origin created in the souls of them who are born of the Spirit, which being born of Him, we then partake of Spiritual Life, Faculties, Senses and Perceptions, hence thereby capacitated to receive the Gospel of Our Salvation, the Word of Truth, to Spiritually discern its Truths and rest in them.

beloved57
July 1st, 2013, 07:58 AM
1 Jn 5:4

4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

This is the victory that overcometh the world, even our Faith. Yes this is speaking of the Believers Faith, only its not his Faith from being born out of the flesh, but of that new constitution which was born of the Spirit, the New Man of Eph 4:24

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Or Born out of incorruptible seed 1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

This Man is Created or born unto True Righteousness and Holiness. But as men of the flesh who had nothing but a human birth, we have no Faith that is pleasing to God, let alone Victorious over the World, Flesh and Devil ! Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Its not the natural man that becomes a Believer in Christ 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

And Christ in Preaching is set forth by the Spirit of God, the Preacher merely delivers the spoken message, but its the Spirit that must reveal Christ out of the Spoken Word. 1 Thess 1:5

For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

So its not the natural man that receives Christ in Faith, but the Spiritual Man, born of God, that's who Believes. John states that here also John 1:12-13

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Those who received Him during His Public Appearance had been Born of God.

Now I know that some proud religionists will think that the faith that overcomes the World was their own natural faith out of the flesh of them, a faith they had within apart from being made a New Creature. So in essence they became overcomers of the world by their own faith in the flesh, that's quite an accomplishment for the natural man to boast and glory about, if it was true.

So The " even our Faith" is the Faith of the Believer, but its the Believer who had First been made a New Man by New Creation Eph 4:24

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

The word new here for new man is not new in time, but in kind "new" as to form or quality, of different nature from what is contrasted as old.

beloved57
July 9th, 2013, 08:04 AM
2Thess 1:11

Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

Its denied by those in organized religion that Faith , which believes in Christ in a conversion salvation experience, is effected by the power of God. Its not the natural ability of man.

The work of Faith with Power was began by the Power of the Holy Spirit within one and its carried out to its completion by that same Power.

Now that this Faith or Believing is first effected by God's Power is seen in Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Plain and simple, who believe according to the working of His Mighty Power, that power being usward !

Rom 1:16 confirms the same


16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Its God"s power being exercised when the results are one is believing the Gospel.

One believes when the Gospel comes in the power of the Spirit 1 Thess 1:5

5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

And that's what Paul is stating about being fulfilled in them here 2 Thess 1:11

11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

Peter writes that believers are kept in Faith by the Power of God 1 Pet 1:5

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

This Faith is of the New Creation and it is sustained by the same Power that Created it or begat it , this to the Glory of God, particularly, God the Spirit !

False Prophet
July 9th, 2013, 08:37 AM
God is going to restore his people.
Thus saith Jehovah: Behold, I will turn again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have compassion on his dwelling-places; and the city shall be builded upon its own hill, and the palace shall be inhabited after its own manner.
19And out of them shall proceed thanksgiving and the voice of them that make merry: and I will multiply them, and they shall not be few; I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small.
20Their children also shall be as aforetime, and their congregation shall be established before me; and I will punish all that oppress them.
21And their prince shall be of themselves, and their ruler shall proceed from the midst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me: for who is he that hath had boldness to approach unto me? saith Jehovah.

22And ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Jer 30:18

beloved57
July 9th, 2013, 09:31 AM
God is going to restore his people.
Thus saith Jehovah: Behold, I will turn again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have compassion on his dwelling-places; and the city shall be builded upon its own hill, and the palace shall be inhabited after its own manner.
19And out of them shall proceed thanksgiving and the voice of them that make merry: and I will multiply them, and they shall not be few; I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small.
20Their children also shall be as aforetime, and their congregation shall be established before me; and I will punish all that oppress them.
21And their prince shall be of themselves, and their ruler shall proceed from the midst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me: for who is he that hath had boldness to approach unto me? saith Jehovah.

22And ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Jer 30:18

Did you understand post 77 and the points made ?

beloved57
August 26th, 2013, 12:00 AM
Phil 1:29

29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,

All those who shall believe on Christ as a result of Salvation, it is because it has been granted/given to them to do so. The reason why it has been so granted , was because of His Blood Shed for them, and because its being granted to Him, in other words, He prays that for those He died for to be be made believers through the Word of His chosen messengers Jn 17:19-20

19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.


20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;

All for whom He died and rose again, them He also maketh intercession for in behalf of in heaven Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.

34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

The word intercession is the greek word ἐντυγχάνω

I meet, encounter, hence: (b) I call (upon), make a petition, make suit, supplication.

It means a prayer to God on behalf of another.

Christ by His Presence before God, constantly intercedes on behalf of all for whom He died, He makes Petitions for them.

Believers are the answer to Christ's petition and intercession. Lets look at a Psalm here Ps 2:7-8

“I will declare the decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.

8 Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.

Hence it was these that Christ interceded for in the Nations, and whom Paul understood would be made obedient to the Faith as Christ's possessions Rom 15:18

18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

The ESV :

18 For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me to bring the Gentiles to obedience—by word and deed,

They are made obedient in the day of His Power Ps 110:3, the day of Gospel Power Rom 1:16

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

The Gospel power here converting them makes manifest that they were part of the possessions, inheritance the Father gives the Son upon His Intercession for them.

Rom 1:5

5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:


Rom 16:26

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, aaccording to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Paul here is asserting that in answer to Christ's Intercession to the Father, the messengers are sent out with the Gospel to all nations to bring about their obedience to Christ, or to faith !

All this obedience is in accordance with Christ's Intercession for those He died world wide, and their obedience to the Faith is granted for His Sake or on His Behalf Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

In other words, the privilege of trusting in Christ for Salvation was a bestowing upon all for whom He died and makes Intercession for, and their believing is an answer to His petition of interceding, for Believers are but manifestations of the Son's Redeemed Possessions Ps 2:7-8

7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

beloved57
September 16th, 2013, 07:22 PM
Acts 3:16

16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

The word by is the prep dia which means:

through, on account of, because of

Faith to believe in Christ, and His Power is because of Him. Many false teachers tell us that Faith is an human attribute of the natural man, that is a lie. Faith is an Spiritual Grace given in New Birth of the Spirit, the Spirit of Christ. Its a Grace alloted to all the Heirs, the Seed, the Children of Promise. Peter writes in 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:


The word obtained is the word λαγχάνω

I obtain (receive) by lot, my lot (turn) is, (b) I draw lots.

The word lot denotes: allotted share or portion: to receive one's lot of an inheritance.

The Holy Spirit is given as part of their Inheritance Eph 1:13-14

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest or down payment of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

And its as a result of the Spirit Given, that the Fruit of Faith is given Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit[Given] is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

And so Faith to believe and rest in Christ is by Him. Its given to all the Joint Heirs with Him Rom 8:17

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

For Christ is that Heir [Seed]of Abraham to whom all the Promises were made Gal 3:16-18

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

All the Seed shall receive Faith as an down payment of their Inheritance with Christ, the Seed of Abraham.

beloved57
September 27th, 2013, 10:19 PM
2 Thess 3:1-2

Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:

2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

What this means in a primary regard is that all men have not been given born again of the Spirit, for the natural man does not have faith, for faith has to do with Spiritual things not seen or visible to the natural eye, as well as Hope Rom 8:24

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Yes this Hope comes from the New Birth, which is the fruit of Christ's Resurrection, which is the evidence of His Saving Death 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,;

And man by nature can only walk by sight, to what he see's, whereas to walk by Faith is the opposite as depicted here 2 Cor 5:7

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight ), and it is written also Heb 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Its unnatural for the natural man to walk by Faith !

For Faith is the fruit/product of the Spirit, hence we receive in New Birth the Spirit of Faith 2 Cor 4:13

13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

To say that the natural man has faith Heb 11:1,6 is not true, it's anti scriptural, something those in the flesh have no capability of doing !

Christian Liberty
September 27th, 2013, 10:37 PM
Beloved57 is a, "hyper-Calvinist!" His beliefs are extreme, that's why He's in his "own little camp!!'' He's what I would call a, "Calvinist cultist!!"

I'd throw him in with Carpenter, but OTC and B-57 would anathemize eiach other over the duty-faith issue.

I don't think B-57 is the only one who holds the beliefs he holds, but they are an extreme minority.

I'm what you'd call "Calvinist" and I still say he's nuts.

beloved57
September 29th, 2013, 02:55 PM
2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Saving Faith or belief of the Truth, is the Result of the Saving Work of the Spirit in Regeneration Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

And so Faith or Belief of the Truth is but evidence of a saved state, a New Life given, because a person in a lost state cannot exhibit a consious act of Faith or belief, for such an act of Faith is Spiritually and supernaturally induced by the Power of the Spirit working within one ! Phil 2:12-13

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh[putting forth power] in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

We believe by God putting forth power in us, so Paul says Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, !

beloved57
September 29th, 2013, 11:22 PM
Why does one believe on Christ ? Because they have been made righteous or just by the obedience of Jesus Christ Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The word righteous here is the word dikaios:

righteous, observing divine laws

in a wide sense, upright, righteous, virtuous, keeping the commands of God

of those who seem to themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves in their virtues, whether real or imagined

innocent, faultless, guiltless

used of him whose way of thinking, feeling, and acting is wholly

conformed to the will of God, and who therefore needs no rectification in the heart or life

only Christ truly

approved of or acceptable of God

The word is also translated 33x as the word Just, and its used here Rom 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

So Rom 5:19 can read:

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made Just !

And what is the Promise to the Just in Rom 1:17 ? The Just shall do what ? The Just shall live by Faith. Meaning everyone Christ died for, shall be made to live by Faith.

All for whom He died Righteousness has been imputed to them, and the Just or Righteous shall live by Faith [Heb 11:1].

All who have been made Righteous by the obdience of Christ, shall be made Godly in this present world , which Godliness begins with the acknowledging of the Truth Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

So everyone whom Has Christ's Righteousness imputed to their charge, shall be made to Live by Faith or Believe on Christ !

beloved57
September 30th, 2013, 05:42 AM
Is Faith the Gift of God too ? Yes, of course Faith is the Gift of God also, given through Christ. Wheb God gave Christ, He gave with Him, all things for Life and Salvation Rom 8:32

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The word Gift here is the greek word charisma and means:

a favour with which one receives without any merit of his own

the gift of divine grace

the gift of faith, knowledge, holiness, virtue

the economy of divine grace, by which the pardon of sin and eternal salvation is appointed to sinners in consideration of the merits of Christ laid hold of by faith

grace or gifts denoting extraordinary powers, distinguishing certain Christians and enabling them to serve the church of Christ, the reception of which is due to the power of divine grace operating on their souls by the Holy Spirit

You see that ? The Gift of God is Eternal Life through Jesus Christ, and with that Gift comes The Gift of Faith !

Faith is the Gift of God because it accompanies Salvation Heb 6:9 and Christ, for those He was given in behalf of, He is their Salvation Lk 2:30
For mine eyes have seen thy salvation !

Faith is the Fruit of the Spirit of God Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

The word fruit here also means:

work, act, deed

So the work of the Spirit[in us] effects love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Our Believing is the result of the Work of God the Spirit in Us Jn 6:29

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work or fruit of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Faith is the fruit of the Spirit which Spirit we receive when quickened from the dead as Per Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

And such is the work of the Spirit of God mediated through Christ Jn 6:63

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

This proves also that Christ's Disciples that received His words at this time, all except judas, had been already quickened by the Spirit, because they were receiving Christ's words which were to them Spirit and Life. Remember Peter said Jn 6:68

68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

Jesus also said of them Jn 17:8

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

This could only be possible if they were quickened to Life by the Spirit, and So Faith that embraces and rests in Christ for Salvation is the Gift of God issuing from New Birth or Quickening of the Spirit. David said Ps 80:18

18 So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name [in Faith].

This doctrine is even found in the OT scriptures !

Now if this were not the case, Faith that Pleases God would not be possible because #1. A person in the flesh, not yet quickened or born of the Spirit, such a one cannot please God Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. and Faith does please God Heb 11:6.

And #2, A spiritually dead person cannot spiritually understand the Word of God, which words are Spirit and Life Jn 6:63.

For man by nature does not understand Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Notice also here that the word understandeth is coupled with the word seeketh, the same word joined to Faith Heb 11:6 which pleases God ; and Saving Fruitful Faith does have an element of Spiritual Understanding as denoted here Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty,
some thirty.

Thats the same word understandeth in Rom 3:11. That should let us know that the man in Matt 13:23 is a born again man ! And these verses denotes the natural man's inability to understand Divine Truth 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know[understand] them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Christ and His Gospel in order to profit us must be spiritually discerned !

Jn 3:3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

And the Gospel is the Gospel of the Kingdom of God Mk 1:14-15

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching [U]the gospel of the kingdom of God,

And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

beloved57
September 30th, 2013, 09:34 AM
Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The difference in saved on account of Faith and by means of Faith, it is this, our God given Faith in New Birth is the means by which the Holy Spirit uses for an application of the Knowledge of ones Salvation Lk 1:77

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

That Salvation comes through having their sins forgiven, which is by and through the Blood of Christ Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

John the baptist knew about this because He knew that Christ was that Lamb of God Jn 1:29 that taketh away the sin of the world[of God's People], which is another way of saying remission of sins, and so Faith is given to those who have had their sins remittied that they come to know of it spiritually !

Faith is an instrument of means to convey spiritual Knowledge ! Thats because Spiritual Knowedlge cannot be conveyed to the mind of the flesh, which is enmity against God Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

And it can only mind the things of the flesh Rom 8:5

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

beloved57
October 14th, 2013, 07:23 AM
We know Faith is a Spiritual Grace from a Supernatural Source because we read of it this comment 1 Pet 1:7

7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

When genuine Faith is tested by the varius trials, it cannot perish, because its born out of that Incorruptible Seed. 1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The word incorruptible [aphthartos] means:

uncorrupted, not liable to corruption or decay, imperishable

Now certainly , this kind of Faith is not t o be found in the nature and flesh of unregenerate men !

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Author and Finisher of this type of Faith, whom Himself endured many trials with it ! Heb 12:2-3

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

Thats the type Faith given the believer who was begotten out of the Incorruptible Seed, the Word of God, which is Christ Jn 1:1, who is the Author of this type Faith !

Those who falsely teach that this Faith is in the old man of the flesh by nature, are liars and deceivers, and they are attempting to steal the Praise, Honour and Glory of it for themselves !

beloved57
October 23rd, 2013, 12:23 PM
Many of the religionists who are full of themselves, they boast of Faith in Salvation being something that is in man by nature, but they are liars. The Faith that pleases God as Per Heb 11:6 is not in the natural man, for the natural man cannot please God Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

The natural man is anyone born of natural generation by our natural parents. That makes us carnal by nature. The word carnal sarx means:

B.used of natural or physical origin, generation or relationship
i.
born of natural generation

And so in this condition, we cannot please God, which Faith that Pleases God does according to Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

And yet proud religionists will still insist that the carnal natural man has Faith !

Now here in Heb 11:1,6 the Faith that Pleases God comes from the Author and Finisher of It, the Lord Jesus Christ Heb 12:1,2

Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

In other words religionists, that Faith which pleases God Heb 11:6, Jesus Christ is the Author and Finisher of !

The Father has said on many occasions this Matt 3:17

And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

The Prophet of old speaking of Christ writes Isa 42:21

The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Now, it is this Faith, that of the Son of God, whom the Father is well Pleased, that is the Faith that Pleases God.

This is the Faith Paul means here Gal 2:20

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

All for whom Christ died, He gives them a portion of His Faith in the New Birth.

That's why Peter calls it this 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

That word obtained λαγχάνω:


obtain by lot
A.
to receive by divine allotment, obtain


II.
to cast lots, determine by lot

An allotment is a portion ,to furnish with a portion, as with an inheritance or a dowry

the part of an estate that goes to an heir or a next of kin.

So Faith is allotted to all the Joint Heirs of Jesus Christ whom He died for. Remember Rom 8:17

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

And Christ allots them a portion of their Inheritance in Him, Faith. Rom 12:3

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

We know this is not speaking of all natural men, for they cannot please God. This is speaking of every man who are Heirs of God and Joint Heirs of Jesus Christ, remember, before Rom 12:3 we read of Rom 8:17 !

So Faith that pleases God Heb 11:6 cannot be out of the flesh, its out of the Son of God, the Author and Finisher of it and gives it to all His Joint Heirs, Chosen in Him before the foundation. Eph 1:4.

beloved57
October 29th, 2013, 08:58 AM
Rom 10:17

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

This statement is extremely important, and abused by religionists. They suppose that Hearing here is done by the natural man in the flesh, not born again, however that is not even close to the Truth. Let me explain, Jesus made a very important statement as to who Hears the Word of God, or the Words of God; Jn 8:43

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Jesus told some jews that they cannot hear His Word, meaning they did not have the ability to hear it, yes the could hear it physically and Audibly, naturally, however what Jesus means by this statement is that they COULD NOT hear it Spiritually, they did not have Spiritual Ears by New Birth.

Listen, when Jesus says He that hath a Ear, as here Rev 2:7,11,17,29 let him Hear, He means he that has spiritual ears from New Birth from His Resurrection 1 Pet 1:3,23.

Now lets look at another statement Jesus said about the ability or lack of ability to hear God's word. Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

That's it folks, He that is of God heareth God's Words. Now what does it mean to be of God ?

The word of is the prep ek and means I.out of, from, by, away from, Its etymology is:


A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative

So what Jesus is saying, He that is Born out of God is the one who hears God's Words Spiritually.

Born of God scriptures to consider in this matter 1 Jn 3:9

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 Jn 4:7

Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

1 Jn 5:1

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

This scripture specifically collaborates Jesus Words of Jn 8:47, its being stated here exactly who it is that Believeth Jesus is the Christ, those having been born of God !

1 Pet 1:23

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Here the prep ek is used as to being born out of the incorruptible Seed, by the Word of God [The Living Word] Jn 1:1 who was God in the Flesh Jn 1:14.

So these things scripture testifies to, it does not matter who the person is, how religious they are, how learned they are, unless a person has been born of God, they cannot hear [spiritually] God's word, and so the Faith they have is not the Faith of Rom 10:17.

Also I say this, if any man, say they heard and believed the Gospel unto Salvation before they were Born of God, they are a Liar, and the Truth is not in them !

beloved57
November 5th, 2013, 10:15 AM
Scriptures which signify that Faith is from God , that is Faith to believe on Christ, to come to Him, because its not in man by nature Rom 8:8. Now here they are Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jn 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Also its plain from these scriptures that the natural man cannot believe in Christ. That's made clear by the words " no man can come" man lackes the ability to come/believe in Christ.

Paul teaches the same thing here Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

You see the word come denotes coming in Faith Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

The word cometh here in Heb 11:6 is the same word in the above Jn 6:37,44,65 verses.

This Faith or Coming ability must be given by God, for it does not reside in human nature !

Also that Faith or Coming to Christ is a work is seen here in Heb 11:6 because its stated that the ones who do come in Faith God is a rewarder. Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

The word rewarder is the greek word misthapodotés:

misthapodótēs (from 3408misthos, "reward" and 591 /apodídōmi, "give from") – properly, someone "paying what is due; a rewarder" (Abbott-Smith); a paymaster (A. T. Robertson), giving rewards in keeping with his own values. 3406 /misthapodótēs is only used in Heb 11:6.

one who pays wages

Wages:

Often, wages. money that is paid or received for work or services,

So this also condemns those who teach that God saves people for their Faith, that's translates still into salvation by works !

beloved57
November 5th, 2013, 02:06 PM
Lk 18:7-8

7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

That Faith which is precious and bestowed in Salvation is very rare,
2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Yes, its only a small amount of the "Them that have obtained it"

This Faith is not through Adam, the natural man knows nothing of it, So

and all men do not have it 2 Thess 3:2

2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

In Fact, Faith is the God given seal with the Spirit 2 Cor 1:22

22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Now let me show you the correlation of Faith and Sealing. Faith is defined here Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Now the word sealed is the word sphragizō and means:

I.to set a seal upon, mark with a seal, to seal
A.
for security: from Satan

B.
since things sealed up are concealed (as the contents of a letter), to hide, keep in silence, keep secret

C.
in order to mark a person or a thing
i.
to set a mark upon by the impress of a seal or a stamp

ii.
angels are said to be sealed by God


D.
in order to prove, confirm, or attest a thingI.

to confirm authenticate, place beyond doubt
a.
of a written document

b.
to prove one's testimony to a person that he is what he professes to be

Now the word attest means:

to give proof or evidence of

Then the word prove means to:

to establish the truth or genuineness of, as by evidence or argument

Faith is that which marks us as Children of God, born of God !

Gal 3:26

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Here in Heb 11:4

4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Abel had Faith in Christ Jesus, to him He was that coming Seed of the Women Gen 3:15 !

And So all who belong to God are sealed with the Spirit to produce the fruit of Faith.

This also proves the necessity of the New Birth prior to Faith in Christ, and f we have not the Spirit, we are none of His Rom 8:9

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Yes even the OT Prophets had the Spirit of Christ in them as Per 1 Pet 1:9-11

9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

The Prophets in the OT had the Spirit of Christ in them as the Believers in the NT do Rom 8:9 ! Which Spirit seals us with Faith in the Testimony of God !

beloved57
November 7th, 2013, 11:01 AM
1 Tim 1:1

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

1 Jn 3:23

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Believers become Believers by the Commandment of God, in the same effectual manner in which Paul the Apostle became a Believer/ Apostle 1 Tim 1:1

In fact, all believers to one degree or another are Apostles of Christ or sent ones !

Notice again that his apostleship was according to the commandment of God OUR Saviour and Jesus Christ, If God is Our Saviour and Jesus Christ He has Commanded our Faith, by Decree/injunction;

This verse more than indicates that Believers become believers according to the Command of God. It equally as well means that we become believers according to the will of God as here it also regards Paul's Apostleship Eph 1:1

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

That word will is thelēma:

I.
what one wishes or has determined shall be done
A.
of the purpose of God to bless mankind through Christ

B.
of what God wishes to be done by usI.

commands, precepts



II.
will, choice, inclination, desire, pleasure

Remember, an Apostle, though a Unique Office, is nevertheless only part of an whole of the Body of Christ, a member of it Eph 4:11-13

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

1 Cor 12:27-30


27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

28 And God hath set some in the church ,[B] first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

What be more clearer that Apostles as well as other subordinate offices are assigned by God to the Mystical Body of Chris, the Church Vs 27

The Apostles are merely members of that Body along with other members who are not Apostles by Office, but members together none the less. Scripture says God has Sovereignly set them in their stations Vs

28. The word set τίθημι:

It means to appoint,I.to set, put, place, to choose,to give a place in.

The point is this, the Appointment of God to be a Apostle like Paul or Peter is no more important, less appointed that His setting those into the office or work of helps 1 Cor 12:28

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

All have been appointed in the same manner as the Apostles were 1 Cor 12:14-21

14 For the body is not one member, but many.

15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?

20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.

21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

The Apostles cannot boast and say, Well I was made an Apostle by the Commandment of God as 1 Tim 1:1 or the Will of God Eph 1:1 and you were not ! That would be inaccurate !

In fact the same word will Paul uses in Eph 1:1 is the same one he uses here in 1 Cor 12:18

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

So, this is undeniable scripture proof that those of us who are True believers in Christ, became so by the Sovereign Commandment of God 1 Tim 1:1 and Will of God Eph 1:1.

To deny this is to deny truth of scripture. !

beloved57
November 9th, 2013, 03:39 PM
Another way to define Faith Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith is that which gives spiritual evidence or persuasion of our Saving Interest in the Person and Work of Christ for God's Elect !

Nanja
November 9th, 2013, 04:38 PM
Another way to define Faith Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith is that which gives spiritual evidence or persuasion of our Saving Interest in the Person and Work of Christ for God's Elect !


Because faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal.5:22), a person cannot bear spiritual fruit
unless they first have experienced the new birth. (1 Pet. 1:23)

This kind of faith which God gives to all His saints is an amazing spiritual confirmation;
a profound assurance of the eternal life Christ has accomplished for them in His death and resurrection!

~~~~~

beloved57
November 9th, 2013, 05:52 PM
nanja


Because faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal.5:22), a person cannot bear spiritual fruit
unless they first have experienced the new birth. (1 Pet. 1:23)

Yes. If you notice in 1 Pet 1:23 it is this one born of incorruptible seed, the Logos of God, that Peter says the Gospel was preached to 1 Pet :25

25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

So in Salvation, the Preached word bears fruit in the ones having been born out of the Word of God !

Nanja
November 9th, 2013, 06:19 PM
nanja



Yes. If you notice in 1 Pet 1:23 it is this one born of incorruptible seed, the Logos of God, that Peter says the Gospel was preached to 1 Pet :25

25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

So in Salvation, the Preached word bears fruit in the ones having been born out of the Word of God !

Amen. The word which by the gospel preached unto you...and me.
Thanks for pointing that out :cool:

beloved57
November 12th, 2013, 10:30 AM
Faith by which one receives Christ, or believes on His Name, is only ascribed to those who have been born of God Jn 1:12-13

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

For the natural man cannot receive the things of God 1 Cor 2:14, which the Person and Work of Christ is, that which pertains to God Heb 2:17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Heb 5:1

For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:

BTW the scriptures are of those things which pertain to the things of the Spirit of God 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Now the scriptures are said to 2 Pet 1:20-21

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

2 Tim 3:15-16

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

So its only logical that, that which the scriptures declare 1 Cor 15:3-4

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Be revealed by its Author 1 Cor 2:10-12


10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

beloved57
November 21st, 2013, 12:35 AM
Jn 15:4-5

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Before we can bear fruit, we must be in Christ, and Christ in us, So before we can believe [Faith] we must be in Christ and again, Christ in us by His Spirit, For Faith/ Believing is a Fruit of His Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

We know believers are in Christ before they believe, because Christ says of His Sheep before they Hear and Believe and follow Him this Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

The word have is the greek word echo:

I.
to have, i.e. to hold
A.
to have (hold) in the hand, in the sense of wearing, to have (hold) possession of the mind (refers to alarm, agitating emotions, etc.), to hold fast keep, to have or comprise or involve, to regard or consider or hold as


II.
to have i.e. own, possess

A.to be closely joined to a person or a thing

Yes if He has them, they are in Him. Also all believers were ordained to Eternal Life before they believed Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

For they were ordained to Eternal Life because they were heirs of promise Gal 3:29

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Heb 6:17

Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

And to all the Heirs of Promise its given to them to believe on Christ Phil 1:29. They had been ordained to Eternal Life by being in Union with Christ their Mediator Head before the world began, when this Eternal Life was promised Titus 1:1-2

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Here it was promised to Christ and His Seed Chosen in Him Eph 1:4. Remember Gal 3:16-19

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Now the Promised Inheritance in Vs 18 is Eternal Life, and the Promise was initially made to Christ in Eternity Past, indicated in Vs 16,17,19, God's Promise was made to Christ before the world began Titus 1:2, and those Chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4, they were ordained with Him as joint Heirs with Christ Rom 8:17, and they believe Acts 13:48.

Truster
November 21st, 2013, 04:12 AM
Can you explain the points I made in the OP ?

You didn't make any points in the OP you just cut and paste scripture and made no tangible comment on them. Which leads me to the inevitable conclusion…You haven't got any understanding of what the scriptures convey. You may have an idea, but the true meaning is just over the horizon of your thought process.

So can you explain the points you made in the OP?

beloved57
November 21st, 2013, 08:28 AM
truster


You didn't make any points in the OP

Yes I did, you are just scared of them and evade them.

beloved57
November 30th, 2013, 06:41 PM
Gal 2:20

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Everyone Christ die for were crucified with Him [Rom 6:6], and as the fruit thereof they shall live by His Faith Rom 1:17,Heb 12:2, which denotes Faith out of Jesus Christ, He is the Author of it, and its out of or because of His Faithfulness. Now why is this so ? Its true because all for whom He died,in Covenant Obedience Rom 5:19, He is made a quickening Spirit by His Resurrection 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

45 Thus it is written, The first man Adam became a living being (an individual personality); the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving Spirit [restoring the dead to life].AMP meaning He gives them Life, wherefore Adam gave them death. He gives them Life to live as stated here Jn 6:33

33 The bread of God comes down out of heaven and breathes life into the cosmos.

Jn 10:10

10 The thief cometh not but to steal and to kill and to destroy. I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.


10 A thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy. But I came so that my sheep will have life and so that they will have everything they need.

So its the World of His Sheep. Yes in this Life He gives them Life by His Spirit Jn 6:63

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The Spirit here is being mediated by Him, that's why we have 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The Spirit comes in His Name "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name"

And by this The Spirit that comes in His Name. Now by sending them His Spirit, He gives them the Fruit of Faith Gal 5:22, that's why He says this Jn 12:24


24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He bringeth forth much Faith !

beloved57
December 1st, 2013, 08:10 PM
The Lord Jesus Christ by New Birth imparts Faith to all for whom He died, so that the Life and Faith a True Christian Lives by is from out of the Son of God, who gave Himself for them Gal 2:20

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

The Life a Believer lives in the flesh, is a Spiritual Life from New Birth. One of the sure evidences of Christ having died for one, is that they shall live by Faith or His Faith of which He is the Author and finisher of Heb 12:2

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2 Looking away [from all that will distract] to Jesus, Who is the Leader and the Source of our faith [giving the first incentive for our belief] and is also its Finisher [bringing it to maturity and perfection]. He, for the joy [of obtaining the prize] that was set before Him, endured the cross, despising and ignoring the shame, and is now seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

This is True of the OT Saints just recapitulated in Hebrews Chapter 11, Yes, Jesus is the source of their Faith also.

Now this is true because the scripture makes the promise to the Just :

Hab 2:4;Rom 1:17;Gal 3:11;Heb 10:38 "The just shall live by faith" !

The reason for this based upon the obedience of Christ Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

By this, all for whom He Lived and Died [His Obedience] made then Righteous. The word Righteous here is the greek word dikaios:

I.righteous, observing divine laws
A.
in a wide sense, upright, righteous, virtuous, keeping the commands of GodI.

of those who seem to themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves in their virtues, whether real or imagined

ii.
innocent, faultless, guiltless

iii.
used of him whose way of thinking, feeling, and acting is wholly conformed to the will of God, and who therefore needs no rectification in the heart or life
a.
only Christ truly


iv.
approved of or acceptable of God

Its also the word translated Just as it is here Rom 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

So Rom 5:19 can read thusly:

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made Just.

And what is the promise in Rom 1:17 about the Just ? The Promise of God is that they shall live by Faith.

So having been made Just by His Obedience, He must quicken them into a life of Faith, and so it cometh to pass, that the Just, made so by His Obedience do come to live by Faith. They must first be made alive, given the ability to here, and from that ability to Hear, from the Life given out of quickening, comes Faith Rom 10:17

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The hearing of the Gospel as in Rom 1:16-17. All for whom Christ died shall live by Faith, or His death for them was a utter failure to God, for that's His Fruit unto God !

beloved57
December 19th, 2013, 08:32 AM
That Faith that embraces/Receives a Knowledge of Salvation, its a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

This is also reaffirmed to be true here seeing that Faith is the belif of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Apart from This His[The Spirit] Sanctifying Work, man could not believe in Christ to embrace Salvation Knowledge.

Paul writes and indicates that True Faith in Christ as Lord has been wrought by the Spirit 1 Cor 12:3

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

The word by here is en and denotes instrumentality, means, agency, So Pauls point is that no man can truly Say Lord and mean it save by the agency working of the Spirit. John means the same thing here Jn 3:21

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

So Scriptures like Rom 10:9-10

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

They are describing the Evidence being manifested, The Believing and Confessing, as the Fruit of the Spirit, of the Sanctification of the Spirit unto belief of the Truth ! 2 Thess 2:13 ! Its His Work in the regenerated heart casing belief of the Truth as it is in Christ Jesus !

beloved57
December 21st, 2013, 05:32 AM
Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

There is not a more plainer statement in Holy Writ that should shut the mouths of false believers, freewillers, arminians and the such, who make their arrogant boast about their faith so called, generated from their flesh, because they deny that Faith is a Gift and Fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22.

Faith here by the inspired Apostle writer is clearly stated to be " NOT OF OURSELVES " Lest any man should boast, its the Gift of God.

Yes I know many will now begin their dispute and opposition to this Truth with the greek gender arguments, of neuter vs feminine and the Like, but in the end it does not matter one bit about that, simply because Paul is teaching that the Totality of Salvation by Grace through Faith is the Result of the Gift of God, Salvation itself is by Grace Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

Because its a Raising from the dead, and Faith is merely something that accompanies Salvation as alluded to here Heb 6:9

9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

Salvation, Faith are One Unified whole. So no matter how the false believers and enemies of Righteousness attempt to pervert the Gift of God, this verse stands here as a testimony against them, that Faith in Salvation is not of ourselves, but the Gift of God, so we cannot boast, but yet in still, that's exactly what they do with Faith in this verse, make it their own and boast ,as to that's why they are saved opposed to one who is not ! Their so called faith made the difference, and that's boasting !

Nanja
December 21st, 2013, 07:29 AM
beloved57
Salvation, Faith are One Unified whole. So no matter how the false believers and enemies of Righteousness attempt to pervert the Gift of God, this verse stands here as a testimony against them, that Faith in Salvation is not of ourselves, but the Gift of God, so we cannot boast, but yet in still that's exactly what they do with Faith in this verse, make it their own and boast as to that's why they are saved opposed to one who is not ! Their so called made the difference, and that's boasting !

Agree. Faith is a gift: a revealing to the one Christ died for, that the Righteousness of Christ has been imputed to him.
The result is a profound trust in the work of Christ on their behalf. And for this reason, faith is a fruit of the Spirit;
for it is only given (Phil. 1:29) in the New Birth.

It is impossible for any person to acquire salvation by their own believing, receiving, confessing, etc.,
because before the New Birth he is still in the flesh, and all his works are as filthy rags before God (Isaiah 64:6-7).

It is impossible for anyone to please God before the New Birth:

"So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." -Rom. 8:8

But after the New Birth:

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.

Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. -Rom. 8:9

So, faith which is a Fruit of the Spirit, can only be present if the Spirit of God dwells in that person.


2 Peter 1:1-4
v1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us
through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: v2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you
through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, v3 According as His divine power hath given unto us
all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
v4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature,
having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

~~~~~

beloved57
December 21st, 2013, 03:39 PM
nanja


It is impossible for anyone to please God before the New Birth:

"So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." -Rom. 8:8

So True !

beloved57
December 30th, 2013, 08:25 AM
The Truth of the Gospel is so repugnant to the natural man, that it must by special distinguishing Grace be given to us to believe it, it must be of particular Election or Choice of God, of which others, or the rest are not given .

Lk 8:10

10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Lets remember that the Gospel Paul preached and the others was a Mystery 1 Cor 2:7

But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery [ Wisdom of God 1 Cor 1:24], even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1 Cor 4:1

Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.

This is the stewardship of the Gospel Paul means here.

1 Tim 3:9

Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

The Mystery of the Faith here is the Doctrines of the Gospel.

Now it must be given to us to believe those things, while it is not given to others to believe them.

Phil 1:29

For unto you [in distinction of others] it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Its not given to all men to believe on Christ !

Jn 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Those who teach that God has given all men the ability to believe on Christ for Salvation are out right liars and deceivers !

beloved57
December 30th, 2013, 04:36 PM
It must be a honest heart to believe on Christ. Lk 8:15

15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

It must be an honest and good heart that brings forth the fruit of Faith.

Now this scripture more than any other should enlighten us to the fact that this heart, is not the heart we have by nature. Its nothing good about our heart given in our fleshly birth. The heart we have by nature is descrbibed here Jer 17:9

9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Its evil Gen 6:5

And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Gen 8:21

And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

Now the heart here in our text is described as an honest and good heart.

Now we know deceitfulness as Per Jer 17:9 is quite the opposite of honest !

The word honest here is the greek word kalos and means:

B.good, excellent in its nature and characteristics, and therefore well adapted to its ends, I. genuine, approved

Its an heart given in new birth , its constituted as to answer the purpose for which that class of things were created.

Remember how it is stated in Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

That word made is kathistēmi and means:

D.to constitute, to render, make, cause to be

To be constituted Righteous. That means to compose; form,to create .

In New Birth a New Heart is given to answer a purpose, which comes through being made Righteous by the Obedience of One. So we are given a New Heart Ezk 36:26

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Then Jesus says its not only a Honest Heart, but a Good Heart. The word good agathos means:

I. of good constitution or nature

Again this speaks to the New Nature and Heart given in New Birth, a New Constitution.

It is this Heart Jesus says Lk 8:15

But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

That word keep means:

C. to hold fast, keep secure, keep firm possession of

The same as Heb 3:6

But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

The if is contingent upon whether or not they received the Word of God into a honest and good heart, if they did, they will have patience

Heb 10:36

36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

So it takes from the outset, a Honest and Good Heart given in New Birth to believe on Christ. And no man has this type of Heart by Nature. If you say we do, you do lie and speak against the Truth !

beloved57
January 30th, 2014, 12:35 AM
Faith is believing God's Promise ! Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of Gd Rom 10:17

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God or promise of God !

Faith takes God at His Word of Promise, for its not a condition one must meet or do before God acts out His Spoken or declared promise, for instance, God's declared promise to Abraham and Sarah was that they together shall bring forth a son in their old age, to be named Isaac; Now this bringing Isaac into existence for His Purpose was something determined by God from old, even from His Eternal Counsels from before the foundation, but now it was revealed by Him to them Gen 18:9-15


9 And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent.

10 And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.

11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age; and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.

12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?

13 And the Lord said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?

14 Is any thing too hard for the Lord? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.

15 Then Sarah denied, saying, I laughed not; for she was afraid. And he said, Nay; but thou didst laugh.

And notice Vs 12 That was a laugh of unbelief ! However this promise was of Grace, and God's word of promise would effect Faith in Her, and it is written later this Heb 11:11

11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

This means that She eventually believed through Grace Acts 18:27, but her first natural reaction was unbelief, and not only her, but Abraham also, observe earlier when he first heard the promise before Gen 17:15-17

15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.

16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

17 Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?

That also was initially a sneer of unbelief !

But after God gives Faith, She Judges Him Faithful who promised. You see, God's word of promise that He would give them a Son in their advanced years was not conditioned on their Faith in believing Him or not, but Faith is given in accordance with the Promise, then Faith given by God through His word of promise and the Spirit's application, then she embraces the Promise, the declared Truth of God; and God's Truth and Faithfulness to His People is in no way contingent upon their Faith in Him to perform His promise or purpose. A similar point is made here 2 Tim 2:13

13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

You see, even if Sarah believe not at first God's Promise that she in her very advanced age would bare Abraham a son, that could not prevent God from performing His Promise to her. True Faith is born out of God keeping His word of Promise, and God's promise is not contingent or based upon what we believe or don't believe, but God will give Faith so we can rest in His Faithfulness !

beloved57
February 8th, 2014, 05:09 PM
Rom 10:17

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Faith cometh by hearing of the Word of God or the voice of God, or the voice of Christ, who is God. Now who is it specifically that hears the word or voice of God/ Christ ? The word for word Rhema means:


that which is or has been uttered by the living voice, thing spoken, word any sound produced by the voice and having definite meaning
speech, discourse what one has said

a series of words joined together into a sentence (a declaration of one's mind made in words) an utterance
a saying of any sort as a message, a narrative 1c

concerning some occurrence

subject matter of speech, thing spoken of so far forth as it is a matter of narration
so far as it is a matter of command
a matter of dispute, case at law

In the original is reads:

ἄρα ἡ πίστις ἐξ ἀκοῆς ἡ δὲ ἀκοὴ διὰ ῥήματος Χριστοῦ or Faith cometh by hearing the word or voice of the Christ, the living voice of Christ !

The ASV:

So belief [cometh] of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Now Jesus tells us Himself this mighty truth as to who specifically it is who is hearing His Voice Jn 18:37

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Jesus states that the ones of the Truth heareth His Voice, So exactly what does the Truth mean ?

beloved57
February 9th, 2014, 04:14 AM
Jesus states that the ones of the Truth heareth His Voice Jn 18:37, So exactly what does the Truth mean ? Well Jesus here uses the prep ek which means away from, out of, out from the Truth indicating from the interior to the outward, so it is " he that is out from the truth, which I believe Jesus means by this the Spirit, for the Spirit is the Truth 1 Jn 5:6

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

See also Jn 14:17; 15:26;16:13

The definite article precedes truth , reading the Spirit is the Truth ! So Jesus is saying " The ones hearing my living voice or my words" are the ones out of the Spirit, which means of course born of the Spirit Jn 3:8

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

or having been born out of the Spirit, and of course the Spirit is the Truth !

So when Jesus does declare in Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

He means His Sheep that have been born out of the Spirit of the Truth shall hear His voice, and of course such hearing is by which faith cometh by Rom 10:17

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

So the Lord Jesus Christ without question teaches the necessity n of a Spiritual Birth in order to the Hearing of Faith, and man by nature, in the flesh cannot have or experience the hearing of faith, because only being in the flesh he hath not been born of the Spirit [God] !

Now this can be debated and denied until the world ends, but the Truth of it shall stand, and by the Grace of God I will proclaim it and defend it with scripture !

Nanja
February 9th, 2014, 07:16 AM
beloved

So the Lord Jesus Christ without question teaches the necessity of a Spiritual Birth in order to the Hearing of Faith, and man by nature, in the flesh cannot have or experience the hearing of faith, because only being in the flesh he hath not been born of the Spirit [God] !

Now this can be debated and denied until the world ends, but the Truth of it shall stand, and by the Grace of God I will proclaim it and defend it with scripture !


You declare the Truth!

Hearing is a result of having life.

New Life is accomplished only when the Spirit indwells a person in the New Birth.
Then they can hear God's Words because they have been made spiritually alive;
they are the Sheep of God.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me

John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

So before the New Birth, the only hearing ability one has is in the flesh, and that can never please God:

Romans 8:5-8
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

~~~~~

beloved57
February 9th, 2014, 03:30 PM
beloved



You declare the Truth!

Hearing is a result of having life.

New Life is accomplished only when the Spirit indwells a person in the New Birth.
Then they can hear God's Words because they have been made spiritually alive;
they are the Sheep of God.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me

John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

So before the New Birth, the only hearing ability one has is in the flesh, and that can never please God:

Romans 8:5-8
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

~~~~~

May the Lord continue to bless you, for you have a heart for the Truth, very rare !

Nanja
February 9th, 2014, 06:12 PM
beloved

May the Lord continue to bless you, for you have a heart for the Truth, very rare !



And may the Lord continue to bless you also for your persistent witness of the Truth.
For He is the One who gives His People a new heart, by His Grace alone.
And His Death alone is the Perfect Accomplishment in His Salvation of them.

All Praise and Glory to our God and Saviour Jesus Christ!

~~~~~

beloved57
February 9th, 2014, 06:34 PM
beloved



And may the Lord continue to bless you also for your persistent witness of the Truth.
For He is the One who gives His People a new heart, by His Grace alone.
And His Death alone is the Perfect Accomplishment in His Salvation of them.

All Praise and Glory to our God and Saviour Jesus Christ!

~~~~~

beloved57
February 10th, 2014, 06:38 PM
Jn 17:19-20

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Who are those that shall believe on Christ through their [ The Apostles word ? This shall believe is in the future tense, and the indicative mood. What does the future indicative mean ? The indicative means:

Indicative Mood


The indicative mood is a statement of fact or an actual occurrence from the writer's or speaker's perspective. It may be action occurring in past, present, or future time. http://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/verbs1.htm


This is a certain fact Jesus is stating, for believers in Him by their testimony is the Fruit that He ordained them to bear Jn 15:16

Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

They were instruments in Christ's hand whereby a large harvest of souls should believe on Christ through their preaching and writing. Remember Paul said to the Corinthian Believers 1 Cor 3:5

Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

Believers who come to Faith in Christ through the preaching and writings of the Apostles, they are their fruit , the fruit of their Labor Phil 1:22

22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.

Even all subsequent believers on Christ after the Apostles died off, are still fruit of their Labour aforetime, since the scriptures and doctrines they taught and preached must be adhered to in the conversion of sinners Acts 2:42

And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Now Jesus is speaking also of all them whom He died for and rose again, for they in Him as their Head did die and rise together with Him. They are those who even though they were not yet physically born and alive when they died and rose again with Him, and were made to sit with Him in the heavenlies Eph 2:6

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: Note: This proves they were in Him before they believed !

This fact does therefore ensure that they shall be made alive, given Faith and Hearing, and they shall believe the Gospel of the Apostles, as it is Faithfully Preached, and that's why they shall believe on Him through their word !

beloved57
February 13th, 2014, 01:07 PM
Jn 5:24

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Jesus is teaching us here that hearing and believing are evidential of having everlasting life experimentally , by New Birth, for one cannot spiritually hear and believe the Word. We know this by Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Jn 18:37

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

So understand the point, hearing and believing are evidences of possessing experimentally Everlasting Life by New Birth of the Spirit !

beloved57
February 24th, 2014, 06:13 PM
Faith that Believes in Christ, that rests in His finished work for God's People, God's Salvation to His Israel, this Faith originates in the Grace of God, its the Grace of the Spirit of God Zech 12:10

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look[with Faith or Hope] upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Its a Gift of Grace to put Faith in Christ, we believe through Grace Acts 18:27

And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through [on account of] grace:

That word through is the greek word dia and is translated on the account of Grace, the Grace of the Spirit !

For Faith is strictly of a Divine Source , and it cannot be found in the natural man of the flesh, and so as Paul teaches, it is not of ourselves, it is the Gift of God, the Gift of God's Grace which also is the Spirit !

Faith is the fruit of having been quickened to Life by the Spirit Gal 5:22

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Its been given to us that Truly believe, in order that we would truly believe, and so it was not an act of our so called freewill, but it has been granted to us on behalf of Christ to believe on Him Phil 1:29; And it was not just being given the ability to believe, to do when we will or not, but it is the actual conferment of Faith the act, hence it is given given to us to believe , in that its the result and effect of spiritual life communicated and the inner working of the Spirit of God, to will and do of His Good Pleasure !

beloved57
March 25th, 2014, 11:10 AM
Acts 15:9

And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

If Faith in Salvation was the condition men in the flesh, unregenerate were to act to get saved, then it can be said that men in the flesh, without the Spirit, purified their own hearts by their own faith generated out of their own sinful nature, which makes them as these Prov 20:9

9 Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?

beloved57
April 1st, 2014, 05:17 AM
Rom 11:20

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Probably no other scripture in the bible gives the explicit indication that Faith is not of ourselves, save maybe for Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Faith springs from Grace, which is God's Gift ! Faith is by the Gracious enablement of God [The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Grace which worketh in us who are believing Zech 12:10]

Faith is not of man, but the fruit and enablement of the Spirit Gal 5:22, and in fact, thats why in Rom 11:20 the now Gentile belivers had no reason to boast or be highminded, for the only reason why they were not in unbelief as the majority of the unbelieving jews were which becuse of it were broken off, because God made the difference in them giving them Faith to stand. Notice the explicit declaration to them Rom 11:20

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

You see, to stand by Faith equates to standing by the Divine Ability, not ones own abilty ! This we know by Rom 14:4

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Standing and not falling is solely by the Power and Ability of God causing it.

The word falleth here in Rom 14:4 is the greek word piptō and is the same word the Spirit uses here in Rom 11:22

Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

If God wanted to, if it was His Will and pleasure, He could have caused them that fell in Rom 11:22 to stand by Faith, He was able to MAKE them stand, so says the word of Truth, because Faith to stand was in His Power to give them !

Now this confirms Peters 1 Pet 1:5

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

This means that their standing through Faith is by the Power of God ! The word Power here and able in Rom 14:4 are both from the root word dynamai:

I.
to be able, have power whether by virtue of one's own ability and resources, or of a state of mind, or through favourable circumstances, or by permission of law or custom

II.
to be able to do something

III.
to be capable, strong and powerful

They are being able to stand by Faith, by God's Ability and Resources causing it, in other words, God's Power causes us to stand by or through Faith.

If the Gentiles standing by Faith in Rom 11:20 was of their own ability, they would have reason or cause to boast or be high minded, but the case is not so.

This is also a Judgment against those of us who believed that Faith was a condition man in the flesh had the ability to do to distinguish himself from others who remained in unbelief , such ones are condemned as being highminded or proud !

beloved57
May 8th, 2014, 11:23 PM
Rom 10:17

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Listen, all for whom Christ died shall hear about it, they shall be prepared by the Spirit, the shall be killed by the Spirit with the Law, for Paul refers to that here Rom 7:9-11

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

The Law in the hand of the Spirit will cause and show every elect sinner the experience of being captive to sin in the flesh, and its helplessness, its imprisonment, and its at this time the spiritual prisoner, while smarting under the law by the hand of the Spirit, is made meet to receive the Message and Messenger of God, telling of its Justification and Righteousness before God, this is part of the Good News or Glad Tidings that the Gospel brings to Justified sinners, and then Faith is the evidence that these things are true, they are done and made real to our soul; And it does not matter if we believe not because his or her unbelief cannot make their Justification before God not true, not a fact, because the Truth of it does not depend on the act of the captive, for its a true fact even while the captive is in unbelief and before he believes it, though at last unbelief will be overcome by the Spirit of God, for it is written: " THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH", and all for whom Christ died has been made Just Rom 5:19b and the SHALL means God shall make sure of it, and because of the superlative preparatory work of the Spirit upon the Heart and Mind of the Elect sinner with the Law of God, giving the sinner to know and experience its captivity, it sets the foundation for these words to come to pass Isa 61:1

The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

They have made that way by the Spirit !

Lk 4:18

18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

That word deliverance is the greek word aphesis and means:

a sending away, a letting go, a release, pardon, complete forgiveness.

forgiveness, pardon, of sins (properly, the letting them go, as if they had not been committed (see at length Trench, § xxxiii.)), remission of their penalty:

This spells Justification from sin ! Thats why its good news to them, for the Spirit makes them prepared by convicting them of their sinfulness before God and Helplessness by the Law working in their members sin and death !

beloved57
May 9th, 2014, 09:55 PM
Rom 10:6

6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above )

Rom 9:30

30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

The Righteousness which is of Faith , is that because of Righteousness Imputed , which is only revealed to the Spiritual Grace of Faith Rom 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Uderstand, that Faith is a Grace of the Spirit Gal 5:22 ! Naturally we are ignorant to it [Imputed Righteousness] and therefore as the natural jews did, we by nature go about to establish our own Righteousness Rom 10:3

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Now even though Paul was speaking of the jews here, what is stated is nevertheless befitting for all men by nature.

By nature we all trust in some kind of work, action or performance that we do as the key factor in becoming Justified before God.

Paul's point indeed when speaking of the natural jews, Abraham's natural descendants Rom 10:3-6; 9:30-32 ! Also here in Rom 9:32

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

The main reason for that was because they were not born of the Spirit and did not have the Fruit of Faith that only He gives Gal 5:22, and God witheld the Gift of Faith from them on purpose, so that they would stumble at the Word of Faith 1 Pet 2:8

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

But the Righteousness of Faith is that Righteousness we have as a Free Gift of Imputation because of Christ, and its revealed or made known to God given Faith ! Rom 1:17 !

beloved57
May 11th, 2014, 03:20 AM
Now understand something, Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22, so therefore all who had Faith in the OT, had the Spirit of fruit of Faith from the Spirit, and without the Faith of the Spirit of Christ, man by nature has no true Faith in God in regards to Salvation; and this Faith out of the Spirit is limited to God's Elect Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Note: Whenever talking about Salvation by Grace through Faith Eph 2:8 it only pertains to God's Elect !

And this goes for both testaments, for speaking of this faith, Paul quotes an OT Saint 2 Cor 4:13

13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

Ps 116:10

10 I believed, therefore have I spoken: I was greatly afflicted:

It could very well read" the same faith from the same Spirit "

For the word of Truth, the Gospel of Salvation is how faith cometh, also known as the word of Faith Rom 10:8

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;


Note: Thats why when it comes to Salvation, the Gospel is Preached to the already Saved thus hearing the Gospel of their Salvation cometh Faith, everyone that is saved, God sends them the Good News of their Salvation so they can hear about it and Live by Faith, for the Just shall live by Faith Rom 1:16-17 !

This Word of Faith of the Gospel reveals the Righteousness of God to Faith, for it comes with power and the Spirit to the Chosen Elect, even though it may be proclaimed to all who is in the physical hearing of it 1 Thess 1:4-5

4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

When the Elect are sent the Gospel of their Salvation, it comes to them, not in word only, but also in Power and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance, making them believers, to live by Faith ! Thats proof of their Election, and hence the Faith of God's Elect is made manifest Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

The Apostles mainly were sent to get the Word to God's Elect 2 Tim 2:10


10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Folks, Salvation which is in Christ Jesus is only for them, the Elect !

beloved57
May 17th, 2014, 03:27 PM
Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Its given to believe on Him and to suffer, One of the accompanying virtues of God given Faith to believe on the Name of Christ for Salvation, is perseverance or the ability to stay a course of action, a purpose, or a state , n spite of difficulties and suffering ! In this case its for the words sake, be it the Living Word,Christ or the Written Word, His Truth. Now if a man or women who claims to have Faith in Christ, but yet because of the fire of persecution or suffering 1 Pet 1:7, they begin to fall away, that person was not given Faith or the ability to believe by God, because if so, an accompanying virtue would be to endure suffering for the words sake. Lets read something here Lk 8:13

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

That word temptation peirasmos means:

iv.adversity, affliction, trouble: sent by God and serving to test or prove one's character, faith, holiness

Mk 4:5-6

5 And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:

6 But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.

Matt 13:20-21

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

The word offended, the greek word skandalizō and does mean:

I.to put a stumbling block or impediment in the way, upon which another may trip and fall, metaph. to offend

i.to cause to fall away

But those who Truly have been given Faith by God to believe, they shall successfully suffer persecution 2 Tim 3:12

12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Because the Just shall live by Faith in the word and shall because of it suffer persecution, and they do not fall away in persecution, but indeed persevere in patience as here Lk 8:15

15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Understand, those who may have received the Truth initially like here in Matt 13:20

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

But later they draw back like here Heb 10:38

38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

That means they were not nothing but stony heart hearers in the first place, who had no root, and consequently showing that they had not been given by God to believe and suffer for Christ's sake as Per Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

beloved57
May 19th, 2014, 03:30 AM
So in essence Phil 1:29 is an declaration that it has been given to be Faithful to the Faith of Christ, that we continue in the Faith inspite of severe persecution for the words sake, such perseverance is an token that our Faith in Christ has been given by God, because it gives us to both believe and suffer, which equates to Perseverance and Faithfulness, which things accompany salvation Heb 6:9

9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. or

Heb 10:38-39

38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Notice there are a group called Of them who dont draw back. That means they do not "A.of those who from timidity hesitate to avow what they believe"

They do not depart from the Faith of what they believe, or apostatize, but remain faithful !

Of those which Jesus says Rev 2:10

10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer[Phil 1:29]: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Its said about an certain individual Rev 2:13

I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

All chosen in Christ before the foundation are called the Faithful Eph 1:1,4

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Understand, being faith is the result of this Phil 1:29

For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Both believe and suffer are in the present tense active. The present tense denotes a continual kind of action, so they are given to be continually believing and to be continually suffering !

The word faithful in Eph 1:1 pistos actually means :

properly, faithful (loyalty to faith; literally, fullness of faith); typically, of believing the faith God imparts.

In other words, the believing that God gives causes faithfulness, loyalty to the cause of Christ !

For it is only suitable that a God given Faith or believing would cause one to be faithful to the end 1 Pet 1:7-9

7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

beloved57
May 19th, 2014, 12:01 PM
Jn 1:12-13

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

One must be born of God to believe on His Name, such it has been given to them to do that as Per Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Its a right or privilege given to some to believe on His Name !

Believing on Christ is not of the will of man but of God, this is confirmed also here 2 Cor 3:5

5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

Paul in things Spiritual, even denies having the sufficiency or ability to even think anything of themselves, meaning things related to God and the Gospel and Ministry ! The sufficiency came from God !

That word sufficient is the greek word hikanos:

(a) considerable, sufficient, of number, quantity, time, (b) of persons: sufficiently strong (good, etc.), worthy, suitable, with various constructions, (c) many, much.

It means not to be adequate in ourselves, lacking the ability !

The word think is logizomai and means:

I reckon, count, charge with; reason, decide, conclude; think, suppose.

to suppose, deem, judge:

This has to do with the mind, to understand in the mind, to put together !

Now who can deny that believing the Gospel takes reason, judgment, for believing is the result of having the mind persuaded which means:

to induce to believe by appealing to reason or understanding; convince

Thinking comes before the act of believing, for no one believes anything before thinking reasonable about it, in order to believe it !

And Paul as well as other True believers deny that they has ability, sufficence of themselves to think in these sacred matters and duties !

The Sufficiency, adequacy, comes from God, the Holy Spirit !

beloved57
May 20th, 2014, 06:26 PM
Eph 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Believing on Christ, is one of the Good Works that we as New Creations hath of God been Created that we should walk in !

The word works is the greek word ergon and means:

/érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose).


1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied
1. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
3. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

We were Created to walk in the steps of Faithful Abraham as his Children Rom 4:12

And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Remember when Jesus said this Matt 3:9

9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Thats what God did, in order to keep His Promise to Abraham to give him a believing seed. That word raise , as in raise up in Matt 3:9, it is the greek word egeirō and means:

I.to arouse, cause to rise
A.
to arouse from sleep, to awake

B.
to arouse from the sleep of death, to recall the dead to life

C.
to cause to rise from a seat or bed etc.

D.
to raise up, produce, cause to appear
i.
to cause to appear, bring before the public

ii.
to raise up, stir up, against one

iii.
to raise up i.e. cause to be born

iv.
of buildings, to raise up, construct, erect

Interesting enough to produce also means as a verb :

to create, bring forth, or yield offspring, products,

And so believers are God given Offspring to Abraham, given according to His Promise Gen 17:2-5

2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,

4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

And so, believers are Abraham's Seed according to Promise Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Remember Jesus said to some jews who boasted of being Abraham's seed according to the flesh ? Jn 8:39

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Meaning they would do this Rom 4:12

And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Thats because, they would have been also like Abraham was Eph 2:10

10 For we are his workmanship, created or produced in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

So Faith or Believing is Good Work that identifies us as a Child of Abraham !

beloved57
May 30th, 2014, 06:48 AM
Faith is but the fruit of that abundant Life Christ the Shepherd gives to all the Sheep for whom He died. Jesus expressly stated that a purpose of His coming should result in Him giving Life to His Sheep Jn 10:10

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they [The Sheep] might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

The word that is the conjunction hina and means:

I.that, in order that, so that

It denotes purpose and end, the Sheep having abundant Life is the stated end and purpose of God for Christ the Shepherd coming into the world.

So now if His coming into the World does not result or end in every last one of His Sheep receiving Life and it more abundantly, He has failed His Fathers Purpose, and the statement He made here has been proven a lie. However This abundant Life that is purposed for them comes through Him giving them His Spirit as He quickens them to New Life 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [The Shepherd of the Sheep]was made a quickening spirit. or :

45 So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

For that answers to His Purpose for coming for His Sheep, and He was raised from the dead specifically as the what according to Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Thats right, He was raised from the dead as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep, and so He becomes to them, by sending His Spirit to them, a Life giving Spirit, giving them abundant Life, and because its His Spirit being given them through Him, of which Faith is the fruit of Gal 5:22, then Faith is an evidence of having been given Life from Christ, and that more abundantly !

This is what Paul means, as one of The Sheep, He was given this abundant Life from Christ to believe 1 Tim 1:14

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

The result of Christ coming for the Sheep Jn 10:10

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.


If we never believe, then simply, it was because Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

beloved57
May 30th, 2014, 06:49 AM
Faith is but the fruit of that abundant Life Christ the Shepherd gives to all the Sheep for whom He died. Jesus expressly stated that a purpose of His coming should result in Him giving Life to His Sheep Jn 10:10

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they [The Sheep] might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

The word that is the conjunction hina and means:

I.that, in order that, so that

It denotes purpose and end, the Sheep having abundant Life is the stated end and purpose of God for Christ the Shepherd coming into the world.

So now if His coming into the World does not result or end in every last one of His Sheep receiving Life and it more abundantly, He has failed His Fathers Purpose, and the statement He made here has been proven a lie. However This abundant Life that is purposed for them comes through Him giving them His Spirit as He quickens them to New Life 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [The Shepherd of the Sheep]was made a quickening spirit. or :

45 So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

For that answers to His Purpose for coming for His Sheep, and He was raised from the dead specifically as the what according to Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Thats right, He was raised from the dead as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep, and so He becomes to them, by sending His Spirit to them, a Life giving Spirit, giving them abundant Life, and because its His Spirit being given them through Him, of which Faith is the fruit of Gal 5:22, then Faith is an evidence of having been given Life from Christ, and that more abundantly !

This is what Paul means, as one of The Sheep, He was given this abundant Life from Christ to believe 1 Tim 1:14

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

The result of Christ coming for the Sheep Jn 10:10

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.


If we never believe, then simply, it was because Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

bsmitts
May 30th, 2014, 07:15 AM
You seek to degrade and diregard the Apostle Paul therefore, that makes you a heretic and false teacher!! You're also, a "nutcase extraordinaire!!"

I like that! ("extraordinaire!!!")

beloved57
May 30th, 2014, 07:17 AM
I like that! ("extraordinaire!!!")

Post 130, you understand the points I made ?

Nanja
May 30th, 2014, 07:45 AM
If we never believe, then simply, it was because Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.


Yes. These are the goats of whom Christ will declare "I never knew you" Mat. 7:23 KJV

For only the sins of the the Sheep were laid upon Him. John 10:11 KJV.
The "us all" in Isaiah 53:6 KJV is referring to Christ's Sheep; but not the goats.

~~~~~

beloved57
May 30th, 2014, 08:01 AM
Yes. These are the goats of whom Christ will declare "I never knew you" Mat. 7:23 KJV

For only the sins of the the Sheep were laid upon Him. John 10:11 KJV.
The "us all" in Isaiah 53:6 KJV is referring to Christ's Sheep; but not the goats.

~~~~~

Exactly ! :up:

beloved57
May 30th, 2014, 11:02 PM
Faith also is the witness that we are righteous before God Heb 11:4

4[B] By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

We believe this witness is that of the Spirit that Abel obtained Rom 8:16

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

The Children of God by Faith Gal 3:26 !

Now remember, all for whom Christ died , meaning His Obedience unto death Rom 5:19 ; Phil 2:8 and by that they are made Righteous, and so as an evidence of having been declared Righteous because of His Obedience unto the Cross, Faith is the fruit thereof, and none have the right to believe on Christ, not unless His death made them Righteous; So ones Faith in Christ is not what made them Righteous, but is given in New Life and Birth to be an evidence/witness of having been made and declared Righteous, because of Christ's Obedience Rom 5:19b; now the antichrist followers attempt to twist this Truth, as they attempt to deify the so called freewill of man !

bsmitts
May 31st, 2014, 02:09 PM
Post 130, you understand the points I made ?

I understand "nutcase extraordinaire."

beloved57
May 31st, 2014, 03:09 PM
I understand "nutcase extraordinaire."

Insults huh ? Its for the Gospel Sake ! Let me know when you want to review those points in post 130 !

beloved57
June 22nd, 2014, 02:47 AM
Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

The word through is the prep dia :

(a) gen: through, throughout, by the instrumentality of, (b) acc: through, on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, because of.

Paul acknowledges that he is a believer/apostle by the Grace of God 1 Cor 15:10

But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

We become believers by Grace because the Grace is bestowed upon us and it begins its work in us, as it did with Paul. Its an effectual work Eph 3:7

Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

That word given means the same thing as bestowed upon in 1 Cor 15:10 its the greek word didōmi:

I.
to give

II.
to give something to someone
A.
of one's own accord to give one something, to his advantage
i.
to bestow a gift

All for whom Christ died have this Gift of God's Grace bestowed upon them Rom 5:15

But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.


Abounded here means to have been bestowed upon them, or hath been bestowed upon many !

And its by this Grace, God's effectual power at work in us, that we believe ! Paul says the same thing in Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

Again, we believe according to, or in sync with, or in agreement with, or in consonance with and by means of the working of His Mighty Power !

So thats what is meant by believing because of Grace Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

To say that men believe by their own freewill choice is an outright attack upon the Grace and Power of God !

Nanja
June 22nd, 2014, 03:36 PM
Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

The word through is the prep dia :

(a) gen: through, throughout, by the instrumentality of, (b) acc: through, on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, because of.

Paul acknowledges that he is a believer/apostle by the Grace of God 1 Cor 15:10

But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

We become believers by Grace because the Grace is bestowed upon us and it begins its work in us, as it did with Paul. Its an effectual work Eph 3:7

Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

That word given means the same thing as bestowed upon in 1 Cor 15:10 its the greek word didōmi:

I.
to give

II.
to give something to someone
A.
of one's own accord to give one something, to his advantage
i.
to bestow a gift

All for whom Christ died have this Gift of God's Grace bestowed upon them Rom 5:15

But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.


Abounded here means to have been bestowed upon them, or hath been bestowed upon many !

And its by this Grace, God's effectual power at work in us, that we believe ! Paul says the same thing in Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

Again, we believe according to, or in sync with, or in agreement with, or in consonance with and by means of the working of His Mighty Power !

So thats what is meant by believing because of Grace Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

To say that men believe by their own freewill choice is an outright attack upon the Grace and Power of God !


Definitely!

~~~~~

beloved57
July 8th, 2014, 05:36 PM
That Faith is a Promise of the Gospel, to be Justified by Faith is a Promise, instead of Faith being a condition man meets and performs to get Justified, which is what the antichrist followers teach.

How it faith, is a promise, and those whom Christ died for receive it, this we know by that Gospel Promise to Abraham Gen 12:1-3

Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

For Paul quotes this as an Gospel Promise to Abraham Gal 3:8

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

So God , having determined to Justify the heathen through Faith, is the foundation on which He said to Abraham in Gen 12:3

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Now who can deny that from this, the Promised Blessing is for God to Justify the heathen through Faith, for , Justification by Faith is given with Christ Rom 8:32

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

And Justification by Faith is given to all the Seed Isa 53:10 ; Rom 4:16

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

The seed here does include Gentiles Gal 3:8

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Thats why also it is written, The Just shall live by Faith ! To Live by Faith is a Promise of the Gospel !

beloved57
July 8th, 2014, 08:03 PM
That Faith is a Promise of the Gospel, but to Abraham and his Seed, its also evidenced when God spake these words to Abraham Gen 15:1

After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

God here promised to be Abrahams shield, abd this shield He would be to his Seed, this is the shield of Faith Eph 6:16

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

And the blessing that the Lord pronounced on Abraham in Gen 15:1,5 was for him and his seed Vs 5

5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

Its the blessing of Abraham upon all his seed, Faith or the shield of Faith is given as a blessing to all the Seed of Abraham Rom 4:16

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Gal 3:9

So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Thats the proof that God is the God of his seed Gen 17:7

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

Heb 8:10

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

When God puts spiritual laws in our minds and hearts, thats putting the Law of Faith in our heart Rom 3:27

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

No man can boast about having Faith, because it was received, its not natural to man ! 1 Cor 4:7

7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

If faith was something every man had naturally and was wise enough to use it, it is a reason why to glory !

But Faith is of Grace and its sure to all the seed !

beloved57
July 9th, 2014, 04:06 AM
That Both Faith and Repentance, which are conversion blessings, blessings that effect Gospel obedience, that they are blessings and effects of the New Covenant, which is confirmed by the Blood of Christ is seen here Jer 24:7

7 And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the Lord: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart.

Remember Jesus said Jn 17:3

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Both Faith and Repentance are evidences, proof of both redemption and regenration through the blood of Christ, For God who gives His Elect His Son, along with Him gives us all things that pertaineth to life and godliness Rom 8:32; 2 Pet 1:3 which both Faith and Repentance pertain to Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;= Faith in the Truth

2 Cor 7:10,11

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Its also of note that this godly repentance is said to be wrought in them

For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

And that these things, conversion blessings, are the direct effects of the death of Christ is seen here 1 Pet 2:24-25

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

That word returned means the same thing as it does in Jer 24:7

7 And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the Lord: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart.

Notice, here in Jer 24:7 the hebrew word for return is shuwb and means:

I.to return, turn back

And the greek word returned in 1 Pet 2:25 is epistrephó and means:
to turn, to return

So we know that the Jeremiah passage of the promised return to God had a view to the effects of the death of Christ 1 Pet 2:24-25 !

beloved57
July 9th, 2014, 05:31 AM
I love the shall's of God ! Lets read:

Hab 2:4

Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Rom 1:17

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 3:11

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Heb 10:38

Now the just
live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Now exactly who are the Just ? Its those who are approved of God and acceptable to God, who are at peace with God, are in a right standing with God.

Its all whom have been reconciled to God and by that received into His Favor as Per Rom 5:10, The word reconciled in this verse means:

to receive one into favour

Te Just are all for whom Christ by His Obedience unto death shall make Righteous Rom 5:19b

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The word righteous here comes from the same greek adjective dikaios also translated Just !

So it would be just as proper to say Rom 5:19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made Just.

So therefore it is sufficient to say that all for whom Christ, by His one act of obedience,they shall be made Righteous or Just, that they all shall live by Faith ! Now who can deny this conclusion ? Thats exactly why Christ says of those who never come to believe on Him, this Jn 10:26

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

You see, if they were of His Sheep, then He died for them Jn 10:11,15 and if He died for them, they shall be made Just Rom 5:19 and if they are made Just, the promise comes into effect, The Just shall live by Faith !

beloved57
July 13th, 2014, 03:02 PM
Faith comes with the Spirit of Adoption ! All for whom God chose in Christ before the foundation, were also predestinated to the Adoption of Sons or Children in Time, hence we read Eph 1:3-5

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

It is this Spiritual Blessing the gives Faith out of the Spirit. All whom had been chosen in Christ before the foundation, Christ also came to be made under the Law in their behalf Gal 4:4-6

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons[huios].

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Faith is born after God sends the Spirit of His Son in Our hearts, for the Covenant does state Ezk 36:26-28

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.



27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Now when God promises that they shall be His People, and He will be their God, its the same also as saying they shall be His children 2 Cor 6:16-18

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons[huios] and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

You have the same greek word for Son [huios] in all the scriptures cited Eph 1:5, Gal 4:5-6 ; 2 Cor 6:18 !

So when God says that they shall be His People its also respecting their Adoption as Sons from being redeemed Gal 4:4-6 ! So this being made Sons speaks to be given Faith Gal 3:7

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children[huios] of Abraham.

The word for children here in the origial is huios, usually translated Sons, and the Sons or Children of Abraham are also the Sons or Children of God Rom 9:7-8

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Gal 3:26

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Faith comes from the Spirit given in our hearts in Adoption Gal 4:6

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Remember, Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

bsmitts
July 13th, 2014, 05:06 PM
Beloved57, I would like to ask you a very important question. I've been contemplating Calvinism a lot lately and I wonder this:

You make a great point when quoting Ephesians 2:8-9. However, how do you explain Romans 10:9-10. Here, works are actually mentioned. What about Acts 2:38? And in Ephesians 1:11, couldn't that mean that the "body of Christ" is predestined and not a person individually? Like I said: Ephesians 2:8-9 is an awesome verse of scripture. We cannot be saved of ourselves and we cannot boast. I was only curious how you fit these other scriptures into the picture of what you believe?

beloved57
July 13th, 2014, 05:09 PM
Beloved57, I would like to ask you a very important question. I've been contemplating Calvinism a lot lately and I wonder this:

You make a great point when quoting Ephesians 2:8-9. However, how do you explain Romans 10:9-10. Here, works are actually mentioned. What about Acts 2:38? And in Ephesians 1:11, couldn't that mean that the "body of Christ" is predestined and not a person individually? Like I said: Ephesians 2:8-9 is an awesome verse of scripture. We cannot be saved of ourselves and we cannot boast. I was only curious how you fit these other scriptures into the picture of what you believe?

Please review with me and explain my points made by me in the two previous posts !

Posted from the TOL App!

bsmitts
July 13th, 2014, 05:14 PM
Please review with me and explain my points made by me in the two previous posts !

Posted from the TOL App!

Are the answers to my questions in these posts?

beloved57
July 13th, 2014, 05:15 PM
Are the answers to my questions in these posts?

You better get started !

Posted from the TOL App!

bsmitts
July 13th, 2014, 05:17 PM
Please review with me and explain my points made by me in the two previous posts !

Posted from the TOL App!

I get it! You're very well versed in scripture. I don't know scripture quite that well or as well as you. When you ask me to review your posts, I don't fully get what it is you want.

beloved57
July 13th, 2014, 05:20 PM
I get it! You're very well versed in scripture. I don't know scripture quite that well or as well as you. When you ask me to review your posts, I don't fully get what it is you want.

I take it that you are going to deny my request right ? No problem, to answer your questions, read my threads and find what I believe !

Posted from the TOL App!

bsmitts
July 13th, 2014, 05:27 PM
I take it that you are going to deny my request right ? No problem, to answer your questions, read my threads and find what I believe !

Posted from the TOL App!

And I take it that it isn't easy for you to be polite to anyone and answer a simple question.

beloved57
July 13th, 2014, 05:57 PM
And I take it that it isn't easy for you to be polite to anyone and answer a simple question.

I have said what I said! Are you going to do as I asked or not ?

Posted from the TOL App!

bsmitts
July 14th, 2014, 06:02 AM
I have said what I said! Are you going to do as I asked or not ?

Posted from the TOL App!

no I wont sorry

Truster
July 14th, 2014, 06:52 AM
Anyone who uses the term 'faith to believe' has no understanding of what pistuo/pistoo means.

beloved57
July 14th, 2014, 07:07 AM
no I wont sorry

No problem, if and when you change your mind, i will address your questions ! Have a good day !

beloved57
July 15th, 2014, 04:30 AM
Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

No matter how much scripture indicates that Faith, along with all Salvation blessings is the Gift of God, and not of ourselves yet the antichrist followers still want opportunity to boast of themselves, of what they did, but scripture testimony states different, Faith, yes even the act of believing, is God's Gift to His Elect, that they may acknowledge the Truth, we have the above Eph 2:8, then we have Phil 1:29

For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

What can be more plainer than what Paul says to believers, that it was given to them to believe ! Their believing is an evidence that it had been given to them, lest it was not given. Its only given to Christ's Sheep Jn 10:26

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Also the word given in Phil 1:29 is the greek word charizomai from which it comes from charis which is the word grace, and so believers believe because of Grace, not because of themselves Acts 18:27

And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

The word through, the prep dia means:

ii.on account of

A.the ground or reason by which something is or is not done

Credit is given to Grace as to why one believes on Christ ! They believed on account of Grace.

Paul said he was what he was, to include being a believer as well as an apostle, by the Grace of God 1 Cor 15:10

But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Paul is just saying what all scripture says, he was a believer/ apostle on account of the Grace of God given or bestowed upon him !

Also more scripture corroboration that Faith is not of ourselves but the Gift of God Acts 5:31

Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 11:18

When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

The words here give in Acts 5:31 and granted in Acts 11:18, its the greek word didōmi and means they are caused to repent, the giving or granting repentance is what causes them to repent !

Repentance is put in their minds, in fact thats what Heb 10:16 means by this:

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put or give my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

That word put is the same greek word didōmi and so here we see the force of the word as the giving denotes an Sovereign act of God putting His Laws into their Hearts, the spiritual laws of Faith and Repentance !

Its the fufillment of the Covenant blessings Ezk 36:27

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Thats God giving and or granting repentance Acts 5:31;11:18 !

Now, one may say, but thats speaking of repentance and not Faith ! My answer is that is true, however, Faith and Repentance are Twins joined at the hip, because repentance leads to and effects acknowledgement of the Truth 2 Tim 2:25

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give [ didōmi] them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Thats the number one priority of repentance, to lead to the acknowledging of the Truth, a persuasion of Faith !

Its a turning from darkness of false religion and false beliefs to the Light of the Gospel and the Truth it reveals Acts 26:18

18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Thats their call from or out of darkness to marvelous light 1 Pet 2:9

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Thats the turning spoken of in above Acts 26:18 ! Its a Gift of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13 ; Gal 5:22 !

But I know the antichrist followers will find a way to ignore this scripture proof that Faith, believing on Christ, is not of ourselves, but it is given as a Gift of God, to everyone that is believing !

beloved57
July 22nd, 2014, 03:19 PM
1 Jn 5:13

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

It was given to believe on His Name as stated in Phil 1:29

For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

To those of us who Truly believe, it was given to us to believe as an evidence to know that God has given us Eternal Life, which Life was in His Son Jn 1:4, in other words believing on Christ is given to be proof positive that God did quicken us together with His Son when He raised Him up from the dead Eph 2:1-6

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

This quickening with Christ is outside of any Gospel Obedience, we were totally passive therein and included the whole Body of Christ for which He died, but there comes a time when each member must be quickened individually as proof that they were part of the Body that was quickened together with Christ, when He was quickened from the dead, and that is what believing on Him signifies, and that quickening is a consequence of having Eternal Life Legally imputed !

Nanja
July 22nd, 2014, 03:58 PM
This quickening with Christ is outside of any Gospel Obedience, we were totally passive therein and included the whole Body of Christ for which He died, but there comes a time when each member must be quickened individually as proof that they were part of the Body that was quickened together with Christ, when He was quickened from the dead, and that is what believing on Him signifies, and that quickening is a consequence of having Eternal Life Legally imputed !


Yes. If we are in Christ, Who sits at the right hand of God,
that's what it means to sit in heavenly places Eph. 2:5-6;
our New Birth is hid in Christ above. He quickens us with
His Life; hence we are Born from Above.

~~~~~

beloved57
July 22nd, 2014, 05:38 PM
Yes. If we are in Christ, Who sits at the right hand of God,
that's what it means to sit in heavenly places Eph. 2:5-6;
our New Birth is hid in Christ above. He quickens us with
His Life; hence we are Born from Above.

~~~~~

Amen, all for whom He died were raised up together with Him, and sit together with Him at the Right Hand of God, and that was before they were even born sinners. But They have a Life in Christ to be communicated to them while they are yet dead in sin, that Life comes from above where Christ [and they in Him] are sitting. Thats what Jesus meant by being born again, it literally means to be born from above Jn 3:3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

The word again is the greek word anōthen and means:

I.from above, from a higher place

So all for whom He died and rose again in behalf of Shall be born from above where They sit at the Right Hand of God Col 3:1

If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

We could pray for the New Birth of all whom were risen with Christ, because they are above in Him !

Nanja
July 23rd, 2014, 04:15 AM
Amen, all for whom He died were raised up together with Him, and sit together with Him at the Right Hand of God, and that was before they were even born sinners. But They have a Life in Christ to be communicated to them while they are yet dead in sin, that Life comes from above where Christ [and they in Him] are sitting. Thats what Jesus meant by being born again, it literally means to be born from above Jn 3:3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

The word again is the greek word anōthen and means:

I.from above, from a higher place

So all for whom He died and rose again in behalf of Shall be born from above where They sit at the Right Hand of God Col 3:1

If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

We could pray for the New Birth of all whom were risen with Christ, because they are above in Him !


Amen!

~~~~~

beloved57
August 5th, 2014, 08:29 AM
Rom 8:6

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Before anyone can believe on Christ in a conversion sense, they would have to be first made spiritually minded, given a mind that is spiritually capacitated, and not blinded.

Jn 12:39-40

He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Rom 11:17

What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

2 Cor 3:14

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

2 Cor 4:4

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Col 1:21

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

See a mind that is not spiritually minded is a mine that is alienated from God by wicked works, such a mind is at enmity to embracing Christ !

A spiritual mind is one that is under the govenment and influence of the Holy Spirit versus one such as this Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Secondly to believe on Christ in the sense of conversion, requires a Mind that will yield subjection / obedience to Christ, which the carnal mind cannot do Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

The Law of God here is not limited to or even in this context speaking of the mosaic law, but law and commands of God in general. Its the greek word nomos, without the definite article and it means :

I.anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command
A.
of any law whatsoever
i.
a law or rule producing a state approved of God

Now to believe on Christ in a conversion sense is a command. What did Paul say to the Jailor when asked the question, what must I do to be saved ? Paul replied "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved"

Now understand something here, the word believe here is an Imperative in the greek, which is :


The imperative mood corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding. Thus, Jesus' phrase, "Repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mk.1:15) is not at all an "invitation," but an absolute command requiring full obedience on the part of all hearers.

Now, this required obedience, it is not possible to be rendered by the carnal mind, for it is not subject to the Law of God and cannot be states Paul.

So that leaves us with no alternative but to relaize that one has to be spiritually minded to believe on Christ in a matter of conversion and obedience and that produces life and peace ! Rom 15:13

Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

Thats Spiritually minded believing, when its done through the Power of the Holy Ghost / Spirit !

beloved57
August 5th, 2014, 01:56 PM
To believe on Christ, even though a person does it, for God does not believe for man, but its a work of God Jn 6:29

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

It is God's business, Employment that ye believe on Christ His Son, whom He hath sent !

There are certain ones God sent His Son to save, like Matt 15:24

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Now primarily its the Work of God the Holy Spirit, when He comes to one of the Sheep of the Lost Sheep of Israel, whether jew or Gentile [Jn 10:16] with the Gospel, causing it to be unto them the Power of God, which causes them to believe Rom 1:16

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

That word power here is the same greek word here attributing believing to the Power of the Holy Ghost Rom 15:13

Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power G1411 of the Holy Ghost.

The word is the greek word dynamis and means:


I.strength power, ability
A.
inherent power, power residing in a thing by virtue of its nature, or which a person or thing exerts and puts forth

B.
power for performing miracles

C.
moral power and excellence of soul

D.
the power and influence which belong to riches and wealth

E.
power and resources arising from numbers

F.
power consisting in or resting upon armies, forces, hosts


Gill writes:


"through the power of the Holy Ghost"; not by might or power of man, but by that same divine power which first began the good work, and must fulfil it; which at first implanted the grace of hope, and must perform the work of that, as of faith. The same power is requisite to cause grace to abound, or saints to abound in the exercise of it, as was to the first production of it.

Paul indicates that believers did believe by the working of His Great Power Eph 1:19-20

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Now the way to know whether or not the Spirit energized the Gospel with Power, its when the one is caused to believe Rom 1:16, believing is the result of the Gospel being energized by the Spirit ! It gives it positive effectiveness and application, resulting in their believing !

But wonder if one does not believe the Gospel, or believe on Christ ? That means merely they were not of His Sheep Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

They are not even suppose to believe because they are not His Sheep and therfore He did not come to save them Matt 15:24 !

So we are impelled to believe that when Jesus made the statement in Jn 6:29, it can only mean to His Sheep, for it was many that it was not God's will to believe, but had been appointed to disobedience 1 Pet 2:8

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

In fact they were made to stumble at the word by the decree and purpose of God ! That too was the work or doing of God Matt 21:42

42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

beloved57
August 21st, 2014, 11:33 AM
Yes, Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God Rom 10:17

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

But, where does Hearing come from ? Jesus will tell us Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

He that is of God simply means, he that is born of God ! 1 Jn 3:9

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Thats why this very same writer says in his epistel 1 Jn 5:1

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is[or has been] born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

This is true because it gives support to what Jesus said in Jn 8:47

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Then cometh hearing, which cometh Faith or believing ! See the consistency and symmetry of God's Truth ?

And what happens says Jesus if we are not of God ? Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Then you dont hear them, consequently no Faith ! Yes we may hear God's word physically and audibly with the natural ear, but thats meaningless when it comes to producing Faith, Jesus speaks of spiritual hearing !

Now who is it that Hears the Apostles Preaching of the Gospel ? Jn tells us here 1 Jn 4:6

We are of God as in Jn 8:47]: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God as in Jn 8:47 heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Again, the Key to hearing the Gospel as a word of Salvation to you, is being Of God !

Of ek God, the prepostion ek which means:

I.out of, from, by, away from and :

A primary preposition denoting origin

This denotes being born out of God, by New Birth, or by Spiritual Birth. So no one can hear as it speaks of in Rom 10:17 which results in Faith, unless they have been Born of God or unless they are of God !

beloved57
August 24th, 2014, 04:33 AM
Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

The Gospel cannot be and is not the Gospel of ones Salvation who is yet in a lost state, that would be a false message, but it is so when one has been saved already !

The Gospel as a word of Salvation is sent to them that have been born of God, since such ones are in a saved state experimentally, here is proof of the same !

Peter writing in 1 Pet says 1 Pet 1:23

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Those who obeyed the Truth, did so through the Spirit, which meant they had been born of the Spirit, or Born again, and the Gospel is said to be preached unto them in Vs 25 !

beloved57
September 24th, 2014, 07:20 AM
Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Many in false antichrist religion, who exalt the flesh ability of man in their false salvation profession, do refuse to bow to the scripture testimony that Faith as it pertains to Salvation and the Spiritual things of God that its not of the natural man, but its a Gift of God through His Spirit, for the scripture teaches us that Faith is the fruit of the Spirit of Christ Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith/faithfulness,.

Fruit of the Spirit is in the Genitive Case , meaning describing what kind of fruit, its fruit out of the Spirit, not out of the flesh, and faith or faithfulness is that kind of fruit, its out of the sphere of the Spirit !

Even the word fruit clarifies the origin of Faith, its the word karpos and one of its meanings is :

I.
fruit
A.
the fruit of the trees, vines, of the fields

B.
the fruit of one's loins, i.e. his progeny, his posterity


II.
that which originates or comes from something, an effect, result
A.
work, act, deed

B.
advantage, profit, utility

C.
praises, which are presented to God as a thank offering

D.
to gather fruit (i.e. a reaped harvest) into life eternal (as into a granary), is used in fig. discourse of those who by their labours have fitted souls to obtain eternal life

In this case its the Spirit, faith and the other graces of Vs 22 are the effect, or result of the Spirit !

Grosnick Marowbe
September 24th, 2014, 08:39 AM
B57, Are you affiliated with the Lutheran church? Are you, in fact a Lutheran?
Another poster said you might be?

beloved57
September 24th, 2014, 08:59 AM
Faith is the Gift of God, or believing in Christ which is the same, its a Gift of God, because its the result / effect of God's[The Spirit] working Power, in fact that same Power Utilized when Christ was raised from the dead Eph 1:19,20

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Also its called the Operation of God Cor 2:12

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Faith is the evidence of our Spiritual Union with Christ when God raised Him up as Our Head from the dead after having been delivered for their offences Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

So Faith to believe and trust and rest in Christ for Salvation accompanies Him as the Gift given to them by God Rom 8:32

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

beloved57
September 24th, 2014, 09:18 AM
For believing in Christ for all of Salvation was not left to chance and human freewill, for those Christ died for, but along with the Gift of Him to them a provision was made to effect it by the very same Power that raised their Head and Saviour from the Dead, after He had died for their sins; So this is another way the Scripture validates that Faith , the Gift of God, belief in Christ, was given with the giving of Christ Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

These words are within this scripture of Truth "it is given in the behalf of Christ to believe on him"

The word given here , the greek word charizomai is the same word used for give in Rom 8:32

He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

This certainly solidified that Faith itself accompanies the giving of Christ, when He was delivered up for the Elect.

Now finally To say man believes on Christ for Salvation as a result of his or her freewill decision out of their nature, it is nothing short of a outright attack on the Very Power of God that Raised up Christ from the dead, its an exaltation of the flesh of man over and above the Power of God ! 2 Thess 2:3-4

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Grosnick Marowbe
September 24th, 2014, 09:26 AM
Thanks for not answering. That always helps a discussion!

beloved57
September 24th, 2014, 09:28 AM
Thanks for not answering. That always helps a discussion!

Do you understand the points I made from the last 3 Posts ? Please explain them back to me ! Thanks !

Grosnick Marowbe
September 24th, 2014, 09:31 AM
Do you understand the points I made from the last 3 Posts ? Please explain them back to me ! Thanks !

Nah! You didn't answer GMs questions, so I don't feel like
answering your silly stuff. I hope you don't take it too
personal? It's not personal, it's just business. Get it?,
got it?, good!

Grosnick Marowbe
September 24th, 2014, 09:33 AM
Now, I'm leaving this thread and going back to the "SANE" world!

beloved57
September 24th, 2014, 09:51 AM
Nah! You didn't answer GMs questions, so I don't feel like
answering your silly stuff. I hope you don't take it too
personal? It's not personal, it's just business. Get it?,
got it?, good!

Ok, See you at the Judgment !

beloved57
September 25th, 2014, 06:47 AM
Saving Faith or we may also call it converting Faith, that Faith which gives EVIDENCE Heb 11:1 of being converted to the Truth as it is in Christ Jesus Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Now its the Faith of God's Elect, mainly because its Faith which God's Elect Christ Isa 42:1

Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

He is the Author and finisher of it Heb 12:2

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Its Faith / Trust that He had first Himself, and which He communicates to His Seed Heb 2:13

13 And again, I[Jesus ] will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

That word Trust is but an synonym for Faith, its the greek word peithō and means:


I.
persuade
A.
to persuade, i.e. to induce one by words to believe

B.
to make friends of, to win one's favour, gain one's good will, or to seek to win one, strive to please one

C.
to tranquillise

D.
to persuade unto i.e. move or induce one to persuasion to do something


II.
be persuaded
A.
to be persuaded, to suffer one's self to be persuaded; to be induced to believe: to have faith: in a thing
i.
to believe

ii.
to be persuaded of a thing concerning a person


B.
to listen to, obey, yield to, comply with


III.
to trust, have confidence, be confident



Yes, His Children or Seed or offspring will be characterized by Trust in God.

Abraham was a Type and was given a Seed , children that would follow in his steps Rom 4:12

12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Christ the antitype was given Children that walk in the steps of that Faith or Trust He had per Heb 2:13

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

Christ ensures they will put their Trust in God's Word and Obey as He did ! Thats why scripture is written to the Faith of God's Elect, it is to them who have been given Faith liken unto their Head and Saviour Christ, who is also God's Elect Isa 42:1

Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

beloved57
December 1st, 2014, 04:50 AM
Rom 3:22

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

That word faith pistis also means faithfulness Which would render Rom 3:22

Even the righteousness of God which is by faithfulness of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Now the prep by here is the word dia which means:

A.the ground or reason by which something is or is not done

i.by reason of


ii.on account of


iii.because of for this reason


iv.therefore


v.on this account

So its even the Righteousness of God which is, on the account of, the Faith/Faithfulness of Jesus Christ !

The word Faith/Faithfulness is in the Genitive case which means:


Genitive Case
For the most part, the genitive is often viewed as the case of possession. In more technical terms one noun in the genitive case helps to qualify another noun by showing its "class" or "kind". The genitive case has more uses than most other cases, but in general a noun in the genitive case helps to limit the scope of another noun by indicating its "kind" or "class". It is generally translated into English with a prepositional phrase starting with the word "of". The most common use of the genitive is to show possession (although it does not necessarily indicate actual, literal ownership).
For instance: "the servant of the high priest" (Mark 14:47). The words "of the high priest" are in the genitive case in Greek and modify the word "servant". (In Greek the word "of" is not present, but it is supplied in English in the translation of the genitive case). Here the genitive helps to qualify "which" servant the writer is referring to. It is helping to limit the sphere of all servants to a particular one.
And: "But you have received a spirit of sonship..." (Rom 8:15). Again the word "sonship" is in the genitive case, telling what kind of spirit we have received. http://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/nouns1.htm


Faith/Faithfulness therefore is Of Jesus Christ, its His Subjective Faithfulness that supply's believers with the Righteousness of God.

The Faith / Faithfulness of Jesus Christ is the ground of a Believers Justification / Righteousness before God !

Their Righteousness before God is contributed to the Faithfulness of Jesus Christ, which Righteousness is also Justification before Him !

Then, the Fruit of this, is God given Faith in Christ . Thats right, Faith to believe in Christ is the fruit of having been Justified or declared Righteous by the Faithfuness of Jesus Christ !

Now to confuse this matter is deadly. So understand, the grounds, bases and the meritorious cause of the believers Justification before God, is Christ's Faith/ Faitfulness to the Covenant of Redemption, or simply His Obedience unto Death Rom 5:19; Phil 2:8, but the believers Faith in Christ is the fruit or effect of that Justification they received by Christ's Faith/Faithfulness, or His Obedience unto Death.

Jesus obedience unto death is the same as when He told the believers in sardis to be Faithful unto death Rev 2:10

10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

For faithfulness unto death and obedience unto death are the same thing, Hence Jesus Christ's Faithfulness unto Death resulted in the believers Justification before God, thats before they believe, which believing is the fruit of Christ's Faithfulness, So in actuality, ones believing in Christ, is but the fruit of Christ's Faithfulness or obedience unto Death !

Nanja
December 1st, 2014, 07:47 AM
For faithfulness unto death and obedience unto death are the same thing, Hence Jesus Christ's Faithfulness unto Death resulted in the believers Justification before God, thats before they believe, which believing is the fruit of Christ's Faithfulness, So in actuality, ones believing in Christ, is but the fruit of Christ's Faithfulness or obedience unto Death !

Yes! Excellent post.

~~~~~

beloved57
December 1st, 2014, 08:37 AM
Yes! Excellent post.

~~~~~

Praise the Lord, May He continue to establish us in His Truth !

Nanja
December 1st, 2014, 11:37 AM
Praise the Lord, May He continue to establish us in His Truth !


Praise Him, I know He surely will!

~~~~~

beloved57
December 2nd, 2014, 06:32 AM
Phil 1:6

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

That word begun is the greek word enarchomai and means to:

I.to begin, to make a beginning, to originate; be the originator of:

Now that same word enarchomai made up of the word archomai which also means:

I.to be the first to do (anything), to begin


II.to be chief, leader, ruler


III.to begin, make a beginning

Is also where the word author is from here Heb 12:2

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

So Christ by sending His Spirit in us, giving us Life from the Dead, by that is the Author or beginner of our Faith. He begins the Work of Faith in those He died for, His Seed Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Its a fatal mistake to believe and or teach that Faith in the matter of the things of God, begins from the natural man, that it originates in the mind of the flesh, for that is nothing but an attempt to steal Glory from Christ and the accomplishment of His Works. He begins it un us and shall perform it in us until the Day of Christ Phil 1:6

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

This is also the basis for the P in TULIP the final perseverance in Faith for the Saints, its being performed by Christ through His Spirit !

Nanja
December 2nd, 2014, 08:38 AM
Phil 1:6

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

That word begun is the greek word enarchomai and means to:

I.to begin, to make a beginning, to originate; be the originator of:

Now that same word enarchomai made up of the word archomai which also means:

I.to be the first to do (anything), to begin


II.to be chief, leader, ruler


III.to begin, make a beginning

Is also where the word author is from here Heb 12:2

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

So Christ by sending His Spirit in us, giving us Life from the Dead, by that is the Author or beginner of our Faith. He begins the Work of Faith in those He died for, His Seed Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.


Gal. 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.




Its a fatal mistake to believe and or teach that Faith in the matter of the things of God, begins from the natural man, that it originates in the mind of the flesh, for that is nothing but an attempt to steal Glory from Christ and the accomplishment of His Works.

Absolutely. All human efforts are futile; it's all God's action from start to finish!



He begins it in us and shall perform it in us until the Day of Christ Phil 1:6

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

This is also the basis for the P in TULIP the final perseverance in Faith for the Saints, its being performed by Christ through His Spirit !



Amen!


1 Cor. 1:3-9
Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge; Even as
the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: So that ye come behind in no gift;
waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall also confirm you unto the end,
that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom
ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.


God bless you richly!

~~~~~

beloved57
December 6th, 2014, 10:59 PM
Gal 3:26

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Understand this, the evidence that one is a Son of God by Creation, it is that they shall be manifested to be one by regeneration and consequently Faith in Christ, which has been the case since the beginning of time or the world. Adam the first man was a Son of God in the beginning Lk 3:38

Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

No Adam did not have Faith in Christ immediatelty at his creation, but because he was the Son of God by Creation, Faith in Christ had been predetermined through his sin, For the Law / Commandment was given to bring him to faith in Christ, [The Seed of the Woman] Gal 3:24

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The Command not to eat of that tree was in reality a schoolmaster to bring him a Son of God to Faith in Christ the Messiah, the Seed of the Woman. Them also in Gen 6:1-2

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Are called the Sons of God were believers in Christ, the coming seed of the women, or else they could not have been Sons of God.

In fact, all mankind that was first Created in Adam, are as Adam a Son of God Lk 3:38

38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

And as such they must be born again and given the Gift of Faith in Christ, for we are manifested Children of God by Faith in Christ Jesus Gal 3:26 !

beloved57
December 8th, 2014, 04:24 AM
Rom 10:17

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

2 Cor 2:14-16

14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

Faith comes by Hearing and Hearing by the Word of God /Christ ! Now whenever in the purpose of God, the Gospel is to be a Savour of Life unto Life, its when it [The Gospel] is being heard by them which are Spiritually Alive, who have quicken and opened ears, so then by the Gospel, immortailty and Life are brought to Light as Per 2 Tim 1:10-11

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

In the economy of Salvation, the Gospel Preacher has been appointed to Preach and teach the Gospel to the Spiritually alive that Life Spiritual may be brought to Light /made evident !

Now to them, the Spiritually alive, the Gospel works in them both Faith and Repentance; Yes the Gospel to the Spiritually alive works Faith, Paul writes 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Its only when one has God given Faith, a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22, that one then believes the report of the Gospel, for the Prophet asked Isa 53:1

Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

Jn 12:38

38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

Rom 10:16

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

This by nature indicates that men by nature alone, they cannot believe the Gospel, the Doctrine ! When Paul makes an appeal such as this one recorded in Acts 20:21

21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

It can only be unto them that have been already made alive, so that Life and immortality can be brought to Light by the Gospel. Thats what those duties[Faith/ Repentance] do, bring to Light the New Spiritual Life they have been given in Christ !

patrick jane
December 8th, 2014, 04:31 AM
i'll read my Bible. thanks. you don't have to post a page of scripture like it's something you wrote or actually practice. you minimize your own input by just citing verses only

beloved57
December 8th, 2014, 04:33 AM
pj


i'll read my Bible. thanks

Ok ! But remember whenever you want to know what I believe, read my threads and you will find out !

patrick jane
December 8th, 2014, 04:35 AM
ok b57

beloved57
January 12th, 2015, 05:31 AM
Most religionist believe that Faith is something the natural man has or has the ability to do, but they are dead wrong and deceived ! See, Christ has been the author of a believers Faith Heb 12:2

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

The writer here is very precise in stating to believers of like precious Faith, that it was not of themselves, but Christ was the Author of it. Now what does this word Author mean ? Its the greek word archēgos and means:


I.the chief leader, prince

A.of Christ



II.one that takes the lead in any thing and thus affords an example, a predecessor in a matter, pioneer


III.the author

That word predecessor denotes that He is the Father of Our Faith, much like it is said of Abraham regarding believers, that he is the Father of the Faithful Rom 4:11,12,16

And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:


And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Gal 3:7,9

Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

But what Abraham could not do, he could not produce Spiritual Children with Faith,

But Christ could, so He is the True Father of the Faithful, which He produced in Abraham's stead.

Another definition for that word author in Heb 12:2 which is neglected is :


I.beginning, origin


II.the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader


III.that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause


IV.the extremity of a thing

A.of the corners of a sail



V.the first place, principality, rule, magistracy

A.of angels and demons

Christ is the active cause of our Faith if we believe in Him. Our Faith begin to be because of His causation !

See, the natural man wants to take credit for faith as being of his ability, which is a lie, and it steals credit due to Christ !

beloved57
January 12th, 2015, 07:33 AM
So Faith is the Gift of God in that Christ, the Gift of God Jn 4:10

Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Because Christ, who is the Gift of God, is its Author causer , the effectual producer of it, and thats why, all who Live by Faith, do so because they live by the Faith of the Son of God, who Loved them and gave Himself for them Gal 2:20

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Christ as the Head does communicate His Faith to each of His Members of His Body Rom 12:3

3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

He does this by giving them His Spirit Rom 5:5;Titus 3:5-6 and of course Faith is the fruit of His Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

So its the work of Christ's Spirit in us that effects Faith in Christ and our beginning to Live by Faith, hence we Live by the Faith of the Son of God, So are believing is not of us, but of Christ that by His Spirit now lives in us ! And its all the Gift of God !

Nanja
January 12th, 2015, 08:52 AM
Most religionist believe that Faith is something the natural man has or has the ability to do, but they are dead wrong and deceived ! See, Christ has been the author of a believers Faith Heb 12:2

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

The writer here is very precise in stating to believers of like precious Faith, that it was not of themselves, but Christ was the Author of it. Now what does this word Author mean ? Its the greek word archēgos and means:


I.the chief leader, prince

A.of Christ



II.one that takes the lead in any thing and thus affords an example, a predecessor in a matter, pioneer


III.the author

That word predecessor denotes that He is the Father of Our Faith, much like it is said of Abraham regarding believers, that he is the Father of the Faithful Rom 4:11,12,16

And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:


And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Gal 3:7,9

Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

But what Abraham could not do, he could not produce Spiritual Children with Faith,

But Christ could, so He is the True Father of the Faithful, which He produced in Abraham's stead.

Another definition for that word author in Heb 12:2 which is neglected is :


I.beginning, origin


II.the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader


III.that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause


IV.the extremity of a thing

A.of the corners of a sail



V.the first place, principality, rule, magistracy

A.of angels and demons

Christ is the active cause of our Faith if we believe in Him. Our Faith begin to be because of His causation !

See, the natural man wants to take credit for faith as being of his ability, which is a lie, and it steals credit due to Christ !


Amen! Excellent study.

The Faith that Christ gives His Children is a continual state of them being assured
that they are one for whom Christ gave His Life for; and consequently they have
His Righteousness Phil. 3:9, and are partakers of the divine nature 2 Pet. 1:4.

But it's impossible for the natural man to perform an act of believing,
or have the kind of faith that pleases God, without first being given
the Spiritual ability that accompanies the New Birth Eph. 2:8; Gal.5:22.

~~~~~

beloved57
January 12th, 2015, 09:40 AM
Amen! Excellent study.

The Faith that Christ gives His Children is a continual state of them being assured
that they are one for whom Christ gave His Life for; and consequently they have
His Righteousness Phil. 3:9, and are partakers of the divine nature 2 Pet. 1:4.

But it's impossible for the natural man to perform an act of believing,
or have the kind of faith that pleases God, without first being given
the Spiritual ability that accompanies the New Birth Eph. 2:8; Gal.5:22.

~~~~~

Amen you have spoken well !

beloved57
January 21st, 2015, 04:45 AM
Faith to believe on Christ is not our own, but the work of God! Its the Work of God the Holy Spirit in us to Truly Believe on the Son, who died for us, if indeed He did die for us Jn 6:29

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Christ was sent to save some Jn 3:17

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

This World is not all without exception, but all of God's Elect without distinction, the World of Spiritual Israel, the Church ! The Body of Christ, for God has only Promised to save one world of people, Israel Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Here again Jn 6:40

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The End result of God the Father sending His Son was for the purpose of them believing on Him who were seeing Him spiritually, with a God given spiritual sight ! Now their seeing and believing on Him was not their own natural ability, credit is given to it being the Work of God Jn 6:29, God the Holy Spirit, He produces that Faith which is of the operation of God Col 2:12

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

That word operation is the greek word energeia and means:

working, action, productive work, activity; in the NT, confined to superhuman activity.

This describes that its of the power of the Spirit that produces our act of believing or Faith in Christ, its His operation or working in us both to will and to do of God's pleasure which in this case is to Believe on the Son whom He has sent to seek and to save !

Again believers believe by the working of His Power Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working or operation of his mighty power,

Believe it or not the Mighty Power is the Spirit of God, See Believers are but building materials for Gods Spiritual Temple being Built by Christ, and a Type was that Temple to be built that was prophesied in the OT Zech 4:6

6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.

I quote John Gills comments on this verse Zech 4:6:



Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

Then he answered, and spake unto me, saying,.... In great condescension, in order to instruct him into the true meaning of the vision:

This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel; this signifies what was said by the Lord to Zerubbabel, by some one of the prophets sent unto him:

saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, saith the Lord of hosts: that is, that as the candlestick was supplied with oil, from the two olive trees by the side of it, without the help of any man, to pour in the oil, and trim the lamps; so the temple should be built by Zerubbabel, not through the multitude and strength of men, but through the Spirit of God, animating, exciting, encouraging, and strengthening them to go through the work. The temple was a type of the church, and Zerubbabel a type of Christ; he was so in the high esteem he was had in by the Lord; he was chosen by him; made as a signet, and was precious to him, Haggai 2:23 in his titles and characters, a servant of the Lord, and governor of Judah, Haggai 1:1 and in his work, in bringing the Jews out of captivity, and in rebuilding the temple: so Christ is the chosen of God, and exceeding dear and precious to him; is his righteous servant, and Governor of the church, or King of saints; and who has redeemed and delivered his people from the captivity of sin, and Satan, and the law; and is the builder of his church; who has laid the foundation of it, and will bring in the headstone; and which church is built up in all generations through the conversion of sinners; and that is done, not by external force, by carnal weapons, or moral persuasion; but by the sword of the Spirit, the word of God; and not by the power of man's free will, but by the efficacious grace of the divine Spirit: it is indeed done by power and might, but not of the creature: man, whatever power he has to do things natural, civil, outwardly religions, and materially moral, or however in appearance, has no power to do anything spiritually good; not to think a good thought, nor do a good action, in a spiritual manner; much less to work such a work as the work of regeneration, conversion, and sanctification; since he is dead in sin, and can not quicken himself; his understanding is darkened, yea, darkness itself, and he can not command light into it; his will is stubborn and obstinate, and he can not bend it, and subdue it; his heart is hard as a nether millstone, and he cannot soften it, and repent of his sins, in a truly spiritual, gracious, anti-evangelic manner; his affections are inordinate; and he is a lover of sinful pleasures, and not of God, nor of anything divine, to which his carnal mind is enmity; he cannot believe in Christ of himself; faith is not of himself, it is the gift of God, and so is repentance, and every other grace. The work of grace on the soul is expressed by a regeneration, a resurrection from the dead, a creation, and the new man, or a transformation of a man into another man; all which require almighty power to effect: regeneration is not of the will of man, nor of the will of the flesh, but of God, of Jehovah the Spirit: sanctification is called the sanctification of the Spirit, and every grace of it is a fruit of his; it is he who is the Spirit of life from Christ, that quickens men when dead in trespasses and sins, and enlightens their dark minds with spiritual light, in divine things; it is he that produces evangelical repentance in them, and faith in Christ is of his operation; it is he that begins the work of grace on the heart, and carries it on, and causes to abound in the exercise of every grace, and performs the work of faith with power. The Targum, instead of "by my Spirit", renders it "by my Word".


When we believe, its just the manifestation of us being of those chosen building materials God has Chosen in Christ to construct the Building of His Spiritual Temple 1 Pet 2:5

5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

A Spiritual House is another way of saying a Temple or habitation of God Eph 2:20-22

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

So by understanding this, Faith is not of our own by nature, but its a work or production of the Spirit of God in us, to manifest our lively stone status in the building of the Spiritual Temple of the Lord !

beloved57
January 21st, 2015, 09:02 AM
Basically, when Jesus says that believing on Him is a work of God, God the Holy Spirit, in essence He is indicating, that believing on Him is the Fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

The word fruit karpos :


I.fruit

A.the fruit of the trees, vines, of the fields


B.the fruit of one's loins, i.e. his progeny, his posterity



II.that which originates or comes from something, an effect, result

A.work, act, deed

So the effect or result of the Spirit is Faith ! Or the Work, Act/Action, deed of the Spirit is Faith !

If we recall earlier we showed how Faith is of the operation of God Col 2:12 and that the word operation energeia means also :

I.working, efficiency working, action, productive work, activity. It means the same exact thing as fruit in this, act deed, work !

Heres why. The word energeia is actually Two words combine #1en #2.ergon from which we get the word work :

III.an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

So that energia is the Activity of the Spirit that effects, produces Faith and or Believing on Christ or on His Name !

Thats the only way we can put Faith in Christ, if its the effect of the Spirit in us producing that result, so where is Boasting ? Why do religionist erroneously think that Faith to believe on Christ is something man can do naturally when the scripture teaches the exact opposite ? Its because of pride in mans heart, any man or women who believes Faith in Christ is a natural ability, they are proud and deceived, and in unbelief to this day ! Its the Work of God Jn 6:29, the Fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 !

Nanja
January 21st, 2015, 09:18 AM
Faith to believe on Christ is not our own, but the work of God! Its the Work of God the Holy Spirit in us to Truly Believe on the Son, who died for us, if indeed He did die for us Jn 6:29

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Christ was sent to save some Jn 3:17

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

This World is not all without exception, but all of God's Elect without distinction, the World of Spiritual Israel, the Church ! The Body of Christ, for God has only Promised to save one world of people, Israel Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Here again Jn 6:40

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The End result of God the Father sending His Son was for the purpose of them believing on Him who were seeing Him spiritually, with a God given spiritual sight ! Now their seeing and believing on Him was not their own natural ability, credit is given to it being the Work of God Jn 6:29, God the Holy Spirit, He produces that Faith which is of the operation of God Col 2:12

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

That word operation is the greek word energeia and means:

working, action, productive work, activity; in the NT, confined to superhuman activity.

This describes that its of the power of the Spirit that produces our act of believing or Faith in Christ, its His operation or working in us both to will and to do of God's pleasure which in this case is to Believe on the Son whom He has sent to seek and to save !

Again believers believe by the working of His Power Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working or operation of his mighty power,

Believe it or not the Mighty Power is the Spirit of God, See Believers are but building materials for Gods Spiritual Temple being Built by Christ, and a Type was that Temple to be built that was prophesied in the OT Zech 4:6

6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.

I quote John Gills comments on this verse Zech 4:6:




When we believe, its just the manifestation of us being of those chosen building materials God has Chosen in Christ to construct the Building of His Spiritual Temple 1 Pet 2:5

5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

A Spiritual House is another way of saying a Temple or habitation of God Eph 2:20-22

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

So by understanding this, Faith is not of our own by nature, but its a work or production of the Spirit of God in us, to manifest our lively stone status in the building of the Spiritual Temple of the Lord !


Faith to believe on Christ is not our own, but the work of God!


TY for an excellent study!

You can't make it any clearer than this, Brother, that all of the work of Salvation
in those Christ died for is all by the Working or Operation of the Mighty Power of the Spirit of God.

By God's Grace there may be even one who may read this and God give the understanding!

Also, excellent commentary by John Gill on Zech. 4:6!

~~~~~

beloved57
January 21st, 2015, 09:25 AM
Faith to believe on Christ is not our own, but the work of God!


TY for an excellent study!

You can't make it any clearer than this, Brother, that all of the work of Salvation
in those Christ died for is all by the Working or Operation of the Mighty Power of the Spirit of God.

By God's Grace there may be even one who may read this and God give the understanding!

Also, excellent commentary by John Gill on Zech. 4:6!

~~~~~
Bless you, May God continue to bless your Spiritual seeing and hearing ! :-)

Nanja
January 22nd, 2015, 08:58 AM
Basically, when Jesus says that believing on Him is a work of God, God the Holy Spirit, in essence He is indicating, that believing on Him is the Fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

The word fruit karpos :


I.fruit

A.the fruit of the trees, vines, of the fields


B.the fruit of one's loins, i.e. his progeny, his posterity



II.that which originates or comes from something, an effect, result

A.work, act, deed

So the effect or result of the Spirit is Faith ! Or the Work, Act/Action, deed of the Spirit is Faith !

If we recall earlier we showed how Faith is of the operation of God Col 2:12 and that the word operation energeia means also :

I.working, efficiency working, action, productive work, activity. It means the same exact thing as fruit in this, act deed, work !

Heres why. The word energeia is actually Two words combine #1en #2.ergon from which we get the word work :

III.an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

So that energia is the Activity of the Spirit that effects, produces Faith and or Believing on Christ or on His Name !

Thats the only way we can put Faith in Christ, if its the effect of the Spirit in us producing that result, so where is Boasting ? Why do religionist erroneously think that Faith to believe on Christ is something man can do naturally when the scripture teaches the exact opposite ? Its because of pride in mans heart, any man or women who believes Faith in Christ is a natural ability, they are proud and deceived, and in unbelief to this day ! Its the Work of God Jn 6:29, the Fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 !


Yep!

~~~~~

beloved57
January 28th, 2015, 01:29 PM
The scripture that many religionist like to refer to as they attempt to make their act of Faith/Belief the cause why they are Justified before God is Rom 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Now myself, I believe the Faith here belongs to Christ, His Faithfulness / Obedience, and by it, all for whom He died have Peace with God !

However if it does refer to the individuals Faith, whereby their Justification is made known to them through God given Faith, a fruit of the Spirit, and they receive the peace of God in their souls, even at that, Faith is not a product of the natural mind ! All men by nature, are carnal and the scripture is plain with this indictment against the carnal mind and God Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Folks the carnal mind and the natural mind are one and the same, and it is void of any experimental peace with God ! Faith also has along with it understanding as in Heb 11:3

3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Yet the natural mind cannot understand the things of God 1 Cor 2:14

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know G1097/understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

But [fn]a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually [fn]appraised.NASB

So these things considered it makes it impossible for natural human faith to any part to do in Justification before God. It would have to be Faith from the New Born Spiritual Man, which means they were already a New Creature before they exercised Faith as their own act !

beloved57
March 4th, 2015, 11:51 AM
Jn 11:26

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Man by nature are sinners and dead to God, and not Living in the Spiritual sense.

By nature, though we live physically, yet we be dead spiritually, as to say, dead while we live 1 Tim 5:6

But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.

The word dead here means simply to be spiritually dead !

Also remember the comment Jesus made here Mark 8:22

But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. See Lk 9:60 !

Well the dead here that is to bury the dead, again means the spiritually dead, those destitute of the Life of God,

and thats how we are by nature, dead to God, alienated from the life of God Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Thats being dead, not physically, but spiritually !

Now, because of this lack or destitution of life by nature, sinners by nature cannot believe on Christ, not as the scripture requires to experience salvation/conversion, because by nature we are dead in sin Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Col 2:13

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

The word IN as dead in your sins, its a predisposition en and means:

A primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between

By nature we are in a permanent fixed state of spiritual death and alienation, destitute of spiritual life !

So to have Faith in Christ requires life, to be made free from death, we must be living, and the Spirit quickens or gives Life Jn 6:63 and the Fruit of the Spirit is Faith or Believing Gal 5:22 !

Without the Spiritual Life from the Spirit, there can be no Faith, not even no Seeking God. True Faith Seeks after Christ/ God Heb 11:6, and pleases God, yet without the Spirit and in the flesh man cannot please God Rom 8:8, nor does he seek after God Rom 3:11

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

And the word seek here in Rom 3:11 is the same seek that describes the activity of Faith in Heb 11:6 !

So this is proof positive that in order to believe on Christ in a salvation sense of conversion, man must first be made to Live, and that Spiritually, then comes to past the Words of the Blessed Saviour Rom 11:26

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Nanja
March 5th, 2015, 09:05 AM
Jn 11:26

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Man by nature are sinners and dead to God, and not Living in the Spiritual sense.

By nature, though we live physically, yet we be dead spiritually, as to say, dead while we live 1 Tim 5:6

But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.

The word dead here means simply to be spiritually dead !

Also remember the comment Jesus made here Mark 8:22

But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. See Lk 9:60 !

Well the dead here that is to bury the dead, again means the spiritually dead, those destitute of the Life of God,

and thats how we are by nature, dead to God, alienated from the life of God Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Thats being dead, not physically, but spiritually !

Now, because of this lack or destitution of life by nature, sinners by nature cannot believe on Christ, not as the scripture requires to experience salvation/conversion, because by nature we are dead in sin Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Col 2:13

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

The word IN as dead in your sins, its a predisposition en and means:

A primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between

By nature we are in a permanent fixed state of spiritual death and alienation, destitute of spiritual life !

So to have Faith in Christ requires life, to be made free from death, we must be living, and the Spirit quickens or gives Life Jn 6:63 and the Fruit of the Spirit is Faith or Believing Gal 5:22 !

Without the Spiritual Life from the Spirit, there can be no Faith, not even no Seeking God. True Faith Seeks after Christ/ God Heb 11:6, and pleases God, yet without the Spirit and in the flesh man cannot please God Rom 8:8, nor does he seek after God Rom 3:11

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

And the word seek here in Rom 3:11 is the same seek that describes the activity of Faith in Heb 11:6 !

So this is proof positive that in order to believe on Christ in a salvation sense of conversion, man must first be made to Live, and that Spiritually, then comes to past the Words of the Blessed Saviour Rom 11:26

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?



This excellent study clearly illustrates
how the Scriptures prove that Salvation
is all the Work of God.

No amount of man's mythical freewill can
cause himself to become Spiritually Alive
and Believe on Christ in a way that pleases Him!

~~~~~

beloved57
March 5th, 2015, 10:36 AM
This excellent study clearly illustrates
how the Scriptures prove that Salvation
is all the Work of God.

No amount of man's mythical freewill can
cause himself to become Spiritually Alive
and Believe on Christ in a way that pleases Him!

~~~~~

Thanking God for your fellowship in the Truth !

Nanja
March 5th, 2015, 11:35 AM
Thanking God for your fellowship in the Truth !


And thanking God for yours also.
It's a great blessing He's given me!

~~~~~

Robert Pate
March 5th, 2015, 11:42 AM
And thanking God for yours also.
It's a great blessing He's given me!

~~~~~


The blind leading the blind.

Robert Pate
March 5th, 2015, 11:44 AM
This excellent study clearly illustrates
how the Scriptures prove that Salvation
is all the Work of God.

No amount of man's mythical freewill can
cause himself to become Spiritually Alive
and Believe on Christ in a way that pleases Him!

~~~~~


That is not the Gospel.

Your Gospel does not reconcile the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

beloved57
March 5th, 2015, 12:03 PM
That is not the Gospel.

Your Gospel does not reconcile the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

You teach that Christ saving death is a failure!

Nanja
March 5th, 2015, 03:59 PM
That is not the Gospel.

Your Gospel does not reconcile the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.


Oh yes it does! That's the world that God Loved in John 3:16-17,
His Elect chosen in Him, in love Eph. 1:4, before Creation.
And they have forgiveness of sins because Christ gave His life for them Mat. 1:21,
that's what reconciliation is 2 Cor, 5:19, being declared Righteous:
a New Creature in Christ:

2 Cor. 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature:
old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


All the rest of mankind, however, have no forgiveness of sins,
so consequently they are all workers of iniquity whom God hates Psalm 5:5!

~~~~~

beloved57
March 5th, 2015, 04:21 PM
Oh yes it does! That's the world that God Loved in John 3:16-17,
His Elect chosen in Him, in love Eph. 1:4, before Creation.
And they have forgiveness of sins because Christ gave His life for them Mat. 1:21,
that's what reconciliation is 2 Cor, 5:19, being declared Righteous:
a New Creature in Christ:

2 Cor. 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature:
old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


All the rest of mankind, however, have no forgiveness of sins,
so consequently they are all workers of iniquity whom God hates Psalm 5:5!

~~~~~

He doesn't believe 2 Cor 5:19 nor understand it!

beloved57
March 8th, 2015, 02:51 PM
Col 2:12

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

This is the same as saying that Faith is the fruit , operation of the Spirit of God, Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Lets demonstrate by word study. The word operation is the greek word energeia and means:

I.working, efficiency

A.in the NT used only of superhuman power, whether of God or of the Devil

effectual working as in Eph 3:7

Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Eph 4:16

From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Now the word fruit in Gal 5:22 is the greek word karpos:

II.that which originates or comes from something, an effect, result

A.work, act, deed

The english word for operation means:

effect, functioning, performance, working

workssimilar words:act, enterprise, procedure, process, project, undertaking

Also another scripture that lends to the fact that believing is of the fruit , operation of the Spirit of God is Eph 1:19-20

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

That word working in Vs 19 is the greek word used for operation in Col 2:12, and Paul plainly says the Ephesian believers had believed according to the working, operation of His Mighty Power.

That Mighty Power is the Spirit of God who raised up Christ from the dead 1 Pet 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

The Holy Ghost is sometimes called the Power of God like 2 Cor 6:7

By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,

This no doubt refers to preaching accompanied by the Holy Ghosts Power as in 1 Thess 1:5

For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

So Faith / believing in Christ is the result of the Operation, Fruit, and or Power of the God the Holy Spirit , His Power and Grace !

beloved57
March 9th, 2015, 04:38 AM
The Spiritual Life that is before and requisite to believe is from Christ the Head of the Church, His Body ! He communicates it as the Last Adam, the Head of His Body the Church 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; [B]the last Adam was made[by the purpose of God] a quickening spirit.

So Christ's Members of His Body believe with the Life we receive from Christ through His quickening Spirit Jn 6:63

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The Spirit quickening here is in response to Christ being a quickening Spirit from 1 Cor 15:45, the Spirit carries out the Will of Christ in giving Life to one of His once dead in sin members ! And so by this Christ is the Author of Our Faith Heb 12:2

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

That word author means:


II.one that takes the lead in any thing and thus affords an example, a predecessor in a matter, pioneer


III.the author


I.beginning, origin


II.the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader


III.that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause


Christ is the active cause of our Faith, it begins to be primarily because of Him as the Last Adam.

Now the wicked religionists in the pride of his heart would tell us that faith is a product of his own freewill according to the flesh, exalting their human will over Christ's Spirit !

beloved57
March 14th, 2015, 03:55 AM
Those who come to Faith in Christ were predestinated thereunto, whereby we read in Eph 1:4-5

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Predestinated to the adoption of Children or Sons by Jesus Christ ! The word for Children is actually the greek word huiothesia made up of Two words tithēmi :

I.to set, put, place

And the word huios :

I.a son

Hence to set or place as a Son through or by [dia] Jesus Christ !

And we are declared to be the Children/ Sons of God by Faith in Jesus Christ Gal 3:26

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Yes that word children here is the same greek word huios = Son !

And its because we were always Sons secretly even in Adam Lk 3:23, because of the Work of Christ to deliver us from the fall in him, The Spirit of Adoption is sent into our hearts to declare our Adoption Gal 4:6

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

And with the Spirit is effected the Fruit of Faith Gal 5:22 by which we come to Faith in Christ Jesus Gal 3:26.

Also Gal 4:6 is the fulfillment of the Covenant Promise to Ezk 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

All of this was Predestinated by God according to His choosing us in Christ before the foundation !

Nanja
March 14th, 2015, 08:01 AM
Those who come to Faith in Christ were predestinated thereunto, whereby we read in Eph 1:4-5

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Predestinated to the adoption of Children or Sons by Jesus Christ ! The word for Children is actually the greek word huiothesia made up of Two words tithēmi :

I.to set, put, place

And the word huios :

I.a son

Hence to set or place as a Son through or by [dia] Jesus Christ !

And we are declared to be the Children/ Sons of God by Faith in Jesus Christ Gal 3:26

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Yes that word children here is the same greek word huios = Son !

And its because we were always Sons secretly even in Adam Lk 3:23, because of the Work of Christ to deliver us from the fall in him, The Spirit of Adoption is sent into our hearts to declare our Adoption Gal 4:6

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

And with the Spirit is effected the Fruit of Faith Gal 5:22 by which we come to Faith in Christ Jesus Gal 3:26.

Also Gal 4:6 is the fulfillment of the Covenant Promise to Ezk 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

All of this was Predestinated by God according to His choosing us in Christ before the foundation !


Amen!

To have been given this awesome manifestation of the Spirit in our hearts
is to experience His continual presence: a Powerful Assurance/Faith
of who we are In Christ; and our constant calling on Father witnesses
to our Spiritual Identification of being a Son of the Living God,
Chosen and Predestinated to an Eternal Inheritance Eph. 1:14 KJV!

Ps. 36:8 They shall be abundantly satisfied with the fatness of thy house;
and thou shalt make them drink of the river of thy pleasures

Ps. 107:9 For he satisfieth the longing soul, and filleth the hungry soul with goodness.

~~~~~

beloved57
March 14th, 2015, 08:04 AM
Amen!

To have been given this awesome manifestation of the Spirit in our hearts
is to experience His continual presence: a Powerful Assurance/Faith
of who we are In Christ; and our constant calling on Father witnesses
to our Spiritual Identification of being a Son of the Living God,
Chosen and Predestinated to an Eternal Inheritance Eph. 1:14 KJV!

Ps. 36:8 They shall be abundantly satisfied with the fatness of thy house;
and thou shalt make them drink of the river of thy pleasures

Ps. 107:9 For he satisfieth the longing soul, and filleth the hungry soul with goodness.

~~~~~

Amen!

beloved57
March 15th, 2015, 08:51 AM
Faith is the effect of election this week know by the inspired text of 2 Thessalonians 2:13, where it is stated that certain men had been beloved of God, chosen to Salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief/Faith in the Truth. That word belief being the Greek word pistei, a noun meaning Faith, so it actually can read and faith in the truth, which springs from having been beloved and Chosen, it is also why Paul calls it the faith of God's elect or Chosen Titus 1:1 ! Because Faith is the fruit of Gods Election in Christ!

Nanja
March 15th, 2015, 03:56 PM
Faith is the effect of election this week know by the inspired text of 2 Thessalonians 2:13, where it is stated that certain men had been beloved of God, chosen to Salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief/Faith in the Truth. That word belief being the Greek word pistei, a noun meaning Faith, so it actually can read and faith in the truth, which springs from having been beloved and Chosen, it is also why Paul calls it the faith of God's elect or Chosen Titus 1:1 ! Because Faith is the fruit of Gods Election in Christ!


Amen, it is, simply because of their being the Beloved of God,
the Elect whom He had Chosen in Christ from the beginning
to an eternal Inheritance 1 Pet. 1:4; Eph. 1:11;
chosen to have Faith in the Truth 2 Thes. 2:13.

~~~~~

beloved57
March 15th, 2015, 05:50 PM
Amen, it is, simply because of their being the Beloved of God,
the Elect whom He had Chosen in Christ from the beginning
to an eternal Inheritance 1 Pet. 1:4; Eph. 1:11;
chosen to have Faith in the Truth 2 Thes. 2:13.

~~~~~

Exactly!

Nanja
March 15th, 2015, 05:52 PM
Exactly!

Amen, My Brother!

~~~~~

beloved57
March 16th, 2015, 03:39 AM
Amen, it is, simply because of their being the Beloved of God,
the Elect whom He had Chosen in Christ from the beginning
to an eternal Inheritance 1 Pet. 1:4; Eph. 1:11;
chosen to have Faith in the Truth 2 Thes. 2:13.

~~~~~

That inheritance of 1 Pet 1:4 and Eph 1:11 is the same as that Abraham's Faith sought after Heb 11:8

By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Most in false religion think that the Inheritance Abraham was to receive was carnal, earhly and physical, but it wasnt, it was heavenly Heb 11:16

16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

So it was a Heavenly Inheritance, the same as the one in 1 Pet 1:4

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Abraham's Gentile Seed will also receive this Inheritance Acts 26:17-18

17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Nanja
March 16th, 2015, 07:23 AM
That inheritance of 1 Pet 1:4 and Eph 1:11 is the same as that Abraham's Faith sought after Heb 11:8

By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Most in false religion think that the Inheritance Abraham was to receive was carnal, earhly and physical, but it wasnt, it was heavenly Heb 11:16

16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

So it was a Heavenly Inheritance, the same as the one in 1 Pet 1:4

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Abraham's Gentile Seed will also receive this Inheritance Acts 26:17-18

17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.


Yes, the Inheritance is Heavenly.
It's Eternal Life given Rom. 6:23
to all God's Elect Sons in Christ:
the Heirs of Promise.

Gal. 3:29 And if ye be Christ's,
then are ye Abraham's seed, and
heirs according to the promise.

~~~~~

Robert Pate
March 16th, 2015, 07:52 AM
That inheritance of 1 Pet 1:4 and Eph 1:11 is the same as that Abraham's Faith sought after Heb 11:8

By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Most in false religion think that the Inheritance Abraham was to receive was carnal, earhly and physical, but it wasnt, it was heavenly Heb 11:16

16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

So it was a Heavenly Inheritance, the same as the one in 1 Pet 1:4

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Abraham's Gentile Seed will also receive this Inheritance Acts 26:17-18

17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.


Abraham was justified by faith, Romans 4:1-5.

The Bible does not say that Abraham was predestinated to salvation.

If you are justified by faith you don't need to be predestinated.

beloved57
March 16th, 2015, 08:35 AM
Abraham was justified by faith, Romans 4:1-5.

The Bible does not say that Abraham was predestinated to salvation.

If you are justified by faith you don't need to be predestinated.

Evasion of the point ! Besides that, when did you believe Rom 4:1-5 ?

beloved57
April 2nd, 2015, 04:51 AM
Faith is not a natural ability but a Spiritual Blessing ! Its one of the many blessings Spiritual that God blesses His Chosen in Christ with Eph 1:3-4

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

And therefore its also called the Faith of God's Elect or Chosen Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

The word elect here is from the word chosen in Eph 1:4, the word eklegomai:

I.to pick out, choose, to pick or choose out for one's self

One translation is :

Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, [fn]for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness,NASB

The Bible teaches that Faith is a Spiritual Blessing as it is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith/faithfulness,

So this Faith is given to us of God as a Spiritual Blessing in accordance with He having Chosen us in Christ before the foundation !

Also this means that we were in Christ before we received Faith, so Faith is a consequence/ evidence of having been Chosen in Christ before the foundation !

Yes this means that a person is in Christ before they have Faith in Him !

Nanja
April 2nd, 2015, 07:43 AM
Faith is not a natural ability but a Spiritual Blessing ! Its one of the many blessings Spiritual that God blesses His Chosen in Christ with Eph 1:3-4

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

And therefore its also called the Faith of God's Elect or Chosen Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

The word elect here is from the word chosen in Eph 1:4, the word eklegomai:

I.to pick out, choose, to pick or choose out for one's self

One translation is :

Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, [fn]for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness,NASB

The Bible teaches that Faith is a Spiritual Blessing as it is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith/faithfulness,

So this Faith is given to us of God as a Spiritual Blessing in accordance with He having Chosen us in Christ before the foundation !

Also this means that we were in Christ before we received Faith, so Faith is a consequence/ evidence of having been Chosen in Christ before the foundation !

Yes this means that a person is in Christ before they have Faith in Him !



Amen!

Contrary to what false religion teaches, faith is not something the natural man can exercise
by his "freewill" to become saved, (e.g. placing one's faith in Christ). For scripture attests
to the fact that faith, believing, or any other action one does while still in the flesh,
is void of any spiritual value when it comes to pleasing God.

Rom. 8:7-8 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God,
neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.



But all the Election of Grace, Chosen in Christ to the Adoption of Sons before the foundation
Eph. 1:4-5, at some point in their life, they shall experience New Birth: powerfully evidenced
by God giving them His Spirit, of Whom Faith is a Fruit of.


Rom. 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear;
but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Gal. 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth
the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.


Rom. 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


Christ in you, the hope of glory! Col. 1:27

~~~~~

beloved57
April 2nd, 2015, 09:36 AM
Amen!

Contrary to what false religion teaches, faith is not something the natural man can exercise
by his "freewill" to become saved, (e.g. placing one's faith in Christ). For scripture attests
to the fact that faith, believing, or any other action one does while still in the flesh,
is void of any spiritual value when it comes to pleasing God.

Rom. 8:7-8 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God,
neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.



But all the Election of Grace, Chosen in Christ to the Adoption of Sons before the foundation
Eph. 1:4-5, at some point in their life, they shall experience New Birth: powerfully evidenced
by God giving them His Spirit, of Whom Faith is a Fruit of.


Rom. 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear;
but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Gal. 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth
the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.


Rom. 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


Christ in you, the hope of glory! Col. 1:27

~~~~~

It appears God has given you the ear of the Learned ! Isa 50:4 !

Nanja
April 2nd, 2015, 03:25 PM
It appears God has given you the ear of the Learned ! Isa 50:4 !


TY! I love that verse:
"...he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned."

Yes, that certainly describes what is a daily occurrence for me ☺!
Thanking and Praising Him always for the Holy Spirit's abiding presence 2 Cor. 1:21-22!

And the Spirit's unction and anointing are continuously with all His Saints,
Teaching them The Word of Truth 1 John 2:20, 27, because they were Chosen to
Salvation and Belief of the Truth 2 Thes. 2:13; Eph 1:4; and then sealing their minds
Eph. 1:13; 4:30 from the false gospels Eph. 4:14 of already accursed men Gal. 1:8.

Psalm. 92:1-2 It is a good thing to give thanks unto the LORD, and to sing praises unto thy name,
O most High: To shew forth thy lovingkindness in the morning, and thy faithfulness every night.

~~~~~

beloved57
April 2nd, 2015, 03:32 PM
TY! I love that verse:
"...he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned."

Yes, that certainly describes what is a daily occurrence for me ☺!
Thanking and Praising Him always for the Holy Spirit's abiding presence 2 Cor. 1:21-22!

And the Spirit's unction and anointing are continuously with all His Saints,
Teaching them The Word of Truth 1 John 2:20, 27, because they were Chosen to
Salvation and Belief of the Truth 2 Thes. 2:13; Eph 1:4; and then sealing their minds
Eph. 1:13; 4:30 from the false gospels Eph. 4:14 of already accursed men Gal. 1:8.

Psalm. 92:1-2 It is a good thing to give thanks unto the LORD, and to sing praises unto thy name,
O most High: To shew forth thy lovingkindness in the morning, and thy faithfulness every night.

~~~~~
Amen!

Nanja
April 2nd, 2015, 03:36 PM
Amen!

Praying the LORD continue to richly bless you!

~~~~~

beloved57
April 2nd, 2015, 03:47 PM
Praying the LORD continue to richly bless you!

~~~~~
Thanks, and you too!

beloved57
May 2nd, 2015, 02:27 AM
Many in false religion believe that the natural man can put faith in Christ in regards to Salvation, but that is a lie, Faith is a Gift bestowed upon redeemed man, and comes from his Head and Saviour Jesus Christ, Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance/faith to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Repentance and Faith are the same blessing, identical twins. The word repentance is the greek word metanoia:

repentance, a change of mind, change in the inner man.

Its a change of mind in turning from dead works to Faith in God Heb 6:1

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Paul exhorted what in Acts 20:21

21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Repentance from God and or Christ persuades the Mind which gives birth to Faith !

Man in Adam did not have Faith in Christ because before the fall man had no need for it, being that Faith in Christ is connected with Christ as the Saviour from sin, it[Faith/Repentance] was not in man naturally by creation, it was a Gift stored in Christ for Redemptive Purposes, part of that fulness that in Him dwelled Col 1:18-19

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

And those of us who were Chosen in Him who is the head of the Church His Body, we receive from His fulness grace for grace Jn 1:16

16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Thats how we receive both Faith and Repentance, out of His Fulness as He is Our risen Saviour and Head Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

The word Prince is equivalent to the word Head in Col 1:18

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

The word head kephalé:

(a) the head, (b) met: a corner stone, uniting two walls; head, ruler, lord.

anything supreme, chief, prominent; of persons, master, lord

And the word Prince in Acts 5:31 is the word archégos:

originator, author, founder, prince, leader

the chief leader, prince:

So Both words define the preeminence of Christ over His Body, in Acts 5:31 His Body is Israel, in Col 1:18 His Body is called the Church !

And the point is this, only as members of His Body/Israel do we receive Faith/ Repentance to believe in Him, its not in man by nature, hence Jesus says Jn 6:64-65

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me[naturally speaking], except it were given[redemptively] unto him of my Father.

Its given to us redemptively when He gave us His Son in whom all redemptive fulness dwells, and if we be Christ's Church / Israel, we receive of His fulness, Grace for Grace Jn 1:16 !

beloved57
May 5th, 2015, 02:05 AM
Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith is the Gift/Fruit of the Spirit to convince the Heart and oe Conscience of Divine Realities !

This Divine Gift gives substance and reality to things we otherwise by nature could not believe !

By nature it was not possible for Sarah to believe that she would have a child naturally with Abraham her husband, but when God gave her Faith, she was able to rest in God's Promise that she was going to have the child Heb 11:11

11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

The Truths of the Gospel are against what men by nature can believe, so, its not possible until God gives us the Spirit, so we can believe by means of His Grace and Power , hence we believe by Grace Acts 18:27

And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

That word through is the prep dia and denotes the intrumental means by which they believed:

gen: through, throughout, by the instrumentality of, (b) acc: through, on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, because of.

They believed on account of Grace !

This way God[The Holy Spirit] receives the Glory for their believing !

Nanja
May 6th, 2015, 06:43 AM
The Spiritual Life that is before and requisite to believe is from Christ the Head of the Church, His Body ! He communicates it as the Last Adam, the Head of His Body the Church 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made[by the purpose of God] a quickening spirit.

So Christ's Members of His Body believe with the Life we receive from Christ through His quickening Spirit Jn 6:63

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The Spirit quickening here is in response to Christ being a quickening Spirit from 1 Cor 15:45, the Spirit carries out the Will of Christ in giving Life to one of His once dead in sin members ! And so by this Christ is the Author of Our Faith Heb 12:2

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

That word author means:


II.one that takes the lead in any thing and thus affords an example, a predecessor in a matter, pioneer


III.the author


I.beginning, origin


II.the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader


III.that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause


Christ is the active cause of our Faith, it begins to be primarily because of Him as the Last Adam.

[B]Now the wicked religionists in the pride of his heart would tell us that faith is a product of his own freewill according to the flesh, exalting their human will over Christ's Spirit !


Yes, but they are deceived. The natural man in the flesh, being spiritually dead, has absolutely no ability in themselves to believe on Christ for Salvation.


But for all those who were in Union with Christ, His Body, before the foundation Eph. 1:3-4, for them He is the Author of their Faith. When Christ died, and rose again from the dead, they did also Gal. 2:20; Col. 2:13.

Having Spiritual Life is a requirement for one to have Faith, so each one of the Election of Grace Rom. 11:5 is given the Gift of Faith in the New Birth Eph. 2:8, through Grace Rom. 5:15.


So, believing unto Salvation was never an offer to every man, but it is solely the Work of God in Christ for those discriminately chosen of God.

~~~~~

beloved57
May 6th, 2015, 07:07 AM
Yes, but they are deceived. The natural man in the flesh, being spiritually dead, has absolutely no ability in themselves to believe on Christ for Salvation.


But for all those who were in Union with Christ, His Body, before the foundation Eph. 1:3-4, for them He is the Author of their Faith. When Christ died, and rose again from the dead, they did also Gal. 2:20; Col. 2:13.

Having Spiritual Life is a requirement for one to have Faith, so each one of the Election of Grace Rom. 11:5 is given the Gift of Faith in the New Birth Eph. 2:8, through Grace Rom. 5:15.


So, believing unto Salvation was never an offer to every man, but it is solely the Work of God in Christ for those discriminately chosen of God.

~~~~~

Amen!

beloved57
May 13th, 2015, 09:36 AM
One of the greatest lies going today in false religion circles, is that Faith which has to do with Salvation, that accompanys Salvation, is that its a product of the natural man ! That all men by nature can believe unto Salvation is a total lie and insult to Christ Our Saviour and His Spirit ! The natural man cannot please God which Faith that has to do with Salvation does ! Paul writes of the natural man in the flesh Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Folks, all men by nature are in the flesh ! Paul speaking of Believers before they are converted says Rom 7:5

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

The word were here in the greek is in the imperfect past tense !

Believers are no longer in the flesh, period because the Spirit intervened into their lives Rom 8:9

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The Spirit comes into the Lives of all whom Christ is a Saviour unto, in order to give them Faith, Precious Faith 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Folks Christ is not the Saviour of any who does not through Him obtain a like precious Faith as a Token of His Saviorship !

Its Like as a Savior He also gives Repentance, the flip side of of Faith Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

A Saviour gives Faith and Repentance ! The False Teachers of our day tells us that the natural man generates out of his flesh both Faith and Repentance, claiming themselves savors !

beloved57
May 24th, 2015, 01:51 AM
1 Pet 2:4

4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

Those who come to Christ are first made into living stones, then they come to Christ ! For its only as New Born Babes Spiritually that we can even desire the sincere milk of the word 1 Pet 2:2

2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow/increase thereby:

And the milk of the word entails both repentance and faith towards God as Per Heb 5:12-6:2

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Now its clear from this passage that the milk of the word involves the foundation of repentance from dead works see Heb 9:14 and of Faith toward God See Acts 20:21!

That word coming in 1 Pet 2:4

4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

Its the greek word proserchomai:

I come up to, come to, come near (to), approach, consent (to).

The word consent means:

To indicate or express a willingness; to yield to guidance, persuasion, or necessity; to give assent or approval; to comply.

Also proserchomai is the verb used here in this coming to God verse Heb 7:25

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Also Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Now to summarize, judging from Heb 5:-6:2 The Teachings of Repentance, Faith, Baptism are doctrines for New Born Babes, like those Peter commanded to repent and be baptized Acts 2:38

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

To them, who had just asked in 37

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

the command to repent, comply to baptism was the Milk of the Word they being new born babes spiritually from the outpouring of the Spirit upon them !

They had been born again 1 Pet 1:23-2:4


23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

2 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,

2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

Now all this proves that Gospel commands of Repentance toward God Acts 17:30

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Is relevant only to spiritually newborn babes in their coming to God in Christ !

beloved57
May 26th, 2015, 04:05 PM
Jn 10:3,4,16,27

To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Jesus Promises that His Sheep shall hear His Voice !

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Jesus ensures that His Sheep that He lay down His Life for Jn 10:11,15 He promises they shall hear His Voice and Follow Him !

Now how do we know who Christ's Sheep are ? Those He laid down His Life for ? They will #1 Hear and # Believe and Follow Him.

And Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God, or the Word of Christ;

17 So faith comes by hearing [what is told], and what is heard comes by the preaching [of the message that came from the lips] of Christ (the Messiah Himself).AMP

The word for word rhḗma means:

a spoken word, made "by the living voice"

That Living Voice would be Christ, and so Its a fulfillment of His Propmise that His Sheep shall hear His Voice and follow Him and believe in Him, its guaranteed !

Understand something, one of the consequences of Christ laying down His Life for the Sheep, is that they shall hear His Voice and follow Him in Faith.

Remember when Jesus said these words Jn 10:16, that hearing results in Faith Rom 10:17, and again the believing results from being a Sheep of His, and not believing, remaining in unbelief results from not being a Sheep of His that He layed down His Life for Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Bright Raven
May 26th, 2015, 04:08 PM
Jn 10:3,4,16,27

To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Jesus Promises that His Sheep shall hear His Voice !

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Jesus ensures that His Sheep that He lay down His Life for Jn 10:11,15 He promises they shall hear His Voice and Follow Him !

Now how do we know who Christ's Sheep are ? Those He laid down His Life for ? They will #1 Hear and # Believe and Follow Him.

And Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God, or the Word of Christ;

17 So faith comes by hearing [what is told], and what is heard comes by the preaching [of the message that came from the lips] of Christ (the Messiah Himself).AMP

The word for word rhḗma means:

a spoken word, made "by the living voice"

That Living Voice would be Christ, and so Its a fulfillment of His Propmise that His Sheep shall hear His Voice and follow Him and believe in Him, its guaranteed !

Understand something, one of the consequences of Christ laying down His Life for the Sheep, is that they shall hear His Voice and follow Him in Faith.

Remember when Jesus said these words Jn 10:16, that hearing results in Faith Rom 10:17, and again the believing results from being a Sheep of His, and not believing, remaining in unbelief results from not being a Sheep of His that He layed down His Life for Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Why do you need faith to believe in Christ. I thought you were of the elect and didn't have to do anything.

beloved57
May 26th, 2015, 04:13 PM
Why do you need faith to believe in Christ. I thought you were of the elect and didn't have to do anything.

Did you read the Post you quoted ? Please review with me each point I made to see if you understood them !

Bright Raven
May 26th, 2015, 04:15 PM
Did you read the Post you quoted ? Please review with me each point I made to see if you understood them !

So do you need to have faith or not?

beloved57
May 26th, 2015, 04:47 PM
So do you need to have faith or not?

Are you going to do as I asked or not?

beloved57
May 27th, 2015, 02:58 AM
Those Christ died for, His Sheep Jn 10:11,15 and or His Church Eph 5:25, do believe in Him in due time, as a result of of the Work of God in them, God the Spirit, in the New Birth, So believing in Him is a Work of God the Spirit in them Jn 6:29

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Christ's Death was a Covenantal Death, that of the Everlasting Covenant, as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb 13:20-21

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,


21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

The Effect of the shedding of the Blood of the Everlasting Covenant is to Make those it was shed for Perfect in every good work, to do His will, causing a working in them which is well pleasing in God's sight.

Now it is Gods will that everyone Christ died for believes in Him, for that is well pleasing in His sight, 1 Jn 3:

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

One of the Commandments we do that is well pleasing in Gods sight is that we should believe on the Name of His Son Jesus Christ !

In order to do that, we must Hear His Voice, and God the Spirit in New Birth gives us ears to Hear ! Our Hearing is of the Work of God the Spirit in us, for one must be of God to hear God's Words Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. or

He that is of the Truth as stated here by the Shepherd of the Sheep Jn 18:37

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

John Gill on Jn 18:37 " Everyone that is of the Truth heareth my voice"


everyone that is of the truth; that is of God, belongs to the sheep of Christ, knows the truth as it is in Jesus, and is on the side of truth, and stands by it:

heareth my voice; the voice of his Gospel; and that not only externally, but internally; so as to approve of it, rejoice at it, and distinguish it; and the voice of his commands, so as cheerfully to obey them from a principle of love to him.

beloved57
June 5th, 2015, 06:39 AM
1 Jn 5:1

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

False teachers shall never acknowledge this Truth, but its taught throughout the scriptures literally and in principle ! In fact its literaaly being stated here in 1 Jn 5:1 that Faith/Believing is the fruit of being born of God; Whosoever is believing [present tense] That Jesus is the Christ, {the Anointed Messiah Son of God} has been born of God [perfect passive], and perfect in the greek means:


The perfect tense in Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated.

Birth is passive and believing is active, one must have been born before they act ! A Baby cannot Cry [action] until after it has been born, given life !

So Birth in the past is an imperative before action in the present can take place, action takes Life to act !

The same thing in principle applies in Jn 3:6,16, for instance the whosoever believing in Jn 3:16, its because and the result of the Birth of the Spirit in Jn 3:6-8

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

The scriptures affirm that Believing Faith is the fruit, product of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith/faithfulness,

People try to argue whether or not the word Faith here means Faith or Faithfulness, it means both, those who have been born of the Spirit shall believe initially, and persevere in their Faith which equates to Faithfulness ! Thats why the writer of Hebrews writes of True Believers Heb 10:38-39

38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

And finally, its taught that men and women in the flesh, born merely of the flesh, after the flesh like in Jn 3:6

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Thats means born merely by natural birth, born of the flesh, its taught that those in the flesh, CANNOT PLEASE GOD Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Everyone not born again is in the flesh, PERIOD !

Hence therefore its impossible for the unregenerate to Please God by Faith in Christ, since that is something that Pleases God Heb 11:6, so the conclusion is, If any one does Truly Believe in Christ unto the Saving of the Soul as Per Heb 10:39

39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Then its the Fruit of the New Birth, of having been Born of God, the Spirit !

beloved57
June 21st, 2015, 02:02 AM
The scripture says not in vain that Christ is the Author and Finisher of our Faith, if we are believers Heb 12:2

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Its impossible for anyone that Christ died for to die in their sins in unbelief, for the simple reason, all for whom He Lived and died have already believed in Him, you see their believing in time in Him is only a manifestation that they already believed in God while in Him !

Does this sound like a strange doctrine ? Well its not, its taught in the scripture, its in the principle of Headship !

You see, the fact of the matter is, we became disobedient and unbelievers first of all in Adam, so as when he disobeyed and fell into unbelief, so did we in him, thats why Paul says in Rom 5:12

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Before any of us were born, who were represented by Adam, we sinned when he sinned, all sinned in him.

Its called disobedience here Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

All whom Adam represented became disobedient, were made sinners and unbelievers by his actions, not theirs, and because this principle of headship is so real, we are born by nature what we are by our sin in adam, sinners and unbelievers !

So in a real sense adam is the author of our unbelief and disobedience ! In case you did not know, unbelief and disobedience are one and the same, for example in Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

That word unbelief is also translated disobedience See Eph 2:2;5:6; Col 3:6

Its the greek word apeitheia:

I.obstinacy, obstinate opposition to the divine will, I.impersuasible, whereas Faith denotes being persuaded, A.to persuade, i.e. to induce one by words to believe !

So by nature in adam we became unbelievers, impersuasible !

Now heres the good news if Christ was our Head when He came into the world to live and die for our sins !

beloved57
June 21st, 2015, 02:27 AM
Now heres the good news if Christ was our Head when He came into the world to live and die for our sins !

Just as Christ in our behalf obeyed God, in His Obedience Rom 5:19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Listen, just as adams disobedience was an headship disobedience, so likewise Christ's Obedience here was an Headship obedience ! And its an obedience of Faith/ Trust in God, this we know by this scripture Heb 2:13

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

The speaker here is the Lord Jesus Christ stating that He will put His Trust in God, and to show that it is a Headship Trust, the promise follows, that not only Himself shall put His Trust in God, but so will the children which God has given Him, which is His Seed.

The word Trust is the greek word peithō which is to :

A.to persuade, i.e. to induce one by words to believe

The word Faith comes from this word, heres proof, the word Faith as in Eph 2:8 is the greek word pistis and means:

I.conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it

In fact the word pistis is from the word peithō !

The same word used in Heb 2:13 Trust ! It also means to obey Gal 3:1

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should G3982 not obey G3982 the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

So Jesus is saying that #1 He shall have Faith in God, obey God, Trust God, be persuaded in God, and #2 so will all His Seed given Him !

Its the same principle as when adam disobeyed and all his seed in him !

So the words of Jesus makes more sense when He says to unbelieving jews, Ye believe not because you are not of my Sheep Jn 10:26, which denotes, if they would have been of His Sheep, they would believe because, He as their Head has already believed for them !

John 5:24 is to the same purpose Jn 5:24

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Now who are they which are believing, Trusting in Him who sent Christ ? Its all of them that He was believing God in behalf of, Heb 2:13 !

Its not possible for anyone Christ came and died for not to believe as it was not possible for anyone adam sinned and disobeyed for not to be born as unbelievers, because they already sinned and or disobeyed in Adam, and so those Christ obeyed and Trusted for, must be born again to believe and obey since they have already did so in Christ !

beloved57
June 21st, 2015, 04:21 AM
Its like this, as evidence of our Union and solidarity with Adam when he sinned and disobeyed, we are born sinners/unbelievers, likewise as an evidence of our Union and solidarity with Christ, we are born again into obedience and Faith ! There was a Union with Both Heads, Adam and Christ ! The Union with adam cause , or authors our unbelief, The Union with Christ causes or authors our Faith ! Hence Jesus unto believers is the Author and finisher of Our Faith ! See Heb 12:2 !

beloved57
June 27th, 2015, 03:18 PM
Col 2:10

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

The word complete plēroō means:

C.to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise

i.of matters of duty: to perform, execute


iii.to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment

Now for this to be True, the believer, before he or she believed, was first made a believer by Christ or in Christ their head, All that the Law required of a man, like what Solomon wrote Ecc 12:13

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Christ has fulfilled the same for him, if indeed He acted in their behalf as a Surety, hence Christ for them caused God's Will, as it is made known in His Law, to be obeyed as it should be ! This entails such obedience to God as the First Commandment, which commands Love to God; Remember Jesus words here in reply to the young lawyer Matt 22:35-40


35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Please notice Vs 37, thats what God requires of man, and Christ has obeyed it for the Believer, and that this obedience implies Faith is seen when we compare these Two passages of scripture, Love to God is to be done in obedience to the Law Lk 11:42

42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone !

Now in Matthews version of the same it reads Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

As we can see Faith and Love to God are used interchangeably as that which ought to have been done as a weightier matter of the Law of God !

Christ fulfilled the Law for those He Lived and died for, so He would have fulfilled Love to God and or Faith in God as that which ought to have been done.

Similar, Micah says it like this, what is required of man Micah 6:8

8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

Christ Fulfilled this requirement in our stead if He was our Surety !

beloved57
June 28th, 2015, 03:50 AM
Taking up from Micah 6:8

8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

That word require means that its a demand, One Translation captures the sense of the word here :

Human being, you have already been told
what is good, what Adonai demands of you —
no more than to act justly, love grace
and walk in purity with your God.CJB

And what is demaned/ required here in this verse of man/adam ? Micah 6:8

8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

And how is that to be done ? To walk humbly with thy God ? One way scripture states is to walk by Faith, for that pleases God ! Remember Enoch, it is written that he walked with God Gen 5:24

24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

And the writer of hebrews informs us it was by Faith Heb 11:5,6

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

That same word pleased in Vs 5 is used in Vs 6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

So thats how Enoch walked with God in a pleasing manner, walking by Faith, thats how man humbly walks with God as required Micah 6:8

8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

Which keeps the Law Matt 23:23; Lk 11:42, which Law Christ has already fulfilled for us as our Surety before God, which makes us complete in Christ, even before we believed !

Christ , before we believed, pleased God for us, Heb 11:6 does apply to Him as a Man, when here on earth Heb 5:7-8

7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Certainly when He offered up prayers, He prayed in Faith James 5:15

And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

So in Him, we were made complete, even people of Faith, else it could not have been said this Col 2:10

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Neither would it be True that He for us has fulfilled and obeyed God's Law for us !

beloved57
July 22nd, 2015, 06:05 AM
It is written, that the doers of the Law shall be Justified Rom 2:13

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God,[B] but the doers of the law shall be justified.

And since the Lord Jesus Christ as a Covenant Head, like Adam, did actually keep/do the Law in its entirety for those He was a Surety for, those He both Lived and died for, Note: Christ could not have died for us unless He also Lived for us as a substitute;

Now they in the Just reckoning of God, since He is their Surety Head, reckons them as doers of the Law, and therefore Justified as such, according to the promise of the text Rom 2:13, hence they are Justified by the Faith of Jesus Christ Gal 2:16

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law [in himself], but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

This scripture along with many others proves that while Christ lived on earth as a Second Adam, A Surety Head, that He in that capacity did what adam could not do in the flesh being too weak Rom 8:3, He obeyed God's Law perfectly for them, lived by Faith for them ! How do we know that ? Its simple, because without Faith it is impossble to please God Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Jesus had Faith in the Reward of His Covenantal engagement with God the Father, that once He Lived in Obedience to the Law, and layed down His Life for the People given to Him by the Father, and He to them as a Covenant Isa 42:6, that He would be raised from the dead, for in Heb 12:2

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

That Joy set before Him was to be post after His death, after His resurrection, thats because He believed God His Father Jn 10:17-18

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Remember David speaking as a Type of Christ Ps 16:9-11

9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.

10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

No doubt that Joy in Vs 11 is referring to that Joy He looked forward to as a Man of Faith Heb 12:2 ! Also see Acts 2:31-32 !

This si to prove that as a Surety, the Man Christ had Faith in the Word of Promise to Him, as the Surety of the People, so His Faith is theirs, the Faith of Jesus Christ Gal 2:16 !

beloved57
August 3rd, 2015, 04:18 PM
Heb 12:2

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Looking away [from all that will distract] to Jesus, Who is the Leader and the Source of our faith [giving the first incentive for our belief] and is also its Finisher . He, for the joy [of obtaining the prize] that was set before Him, endured the cross, despising and ignoring the shame, and is now seated at the right hand of the throne of God.AMP

The word incentive here is very helpful to understand the Truth here being presented, it means:

a motivating influence; stimulus

looking away [B]to the Initiator and Completer of that trusting, Yeshua — who, in exchange for obtaining the joy set before him, endured execution on a stake as a criminal, scorning the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.CJB

The word initiator is enlightening, meaning:

To set going by taking the first step; begin

The believers life of faith began in Christ Jesus, when He for them kept the Law. Its just like the believers life of sin began in Adam when he disobyed the Law God gave him !

That Faith which we began to have in Christ our Head is communicated to us in new birth, just as unbelief and sinfulness we began to have in adam was communicated to us in our natural birth, for neither our life of faithlessness or Faith began in ourselves !

Bright Raven
August 3rd, 2015, 04:22 PM
Glad to see you are having a conversation with yourself. It will keep you out of trouble.

beloved57
August 3rd, 2015, 05:10 PM
Glad to see you are having a conversation with yourself. It will keep you out of trouble.

Did you understand the points made in the previous post?

Nanja
August 3rd, 2015, 05:28 PM
Glad to see you are having a conversation with yourself. It will keep you out of trouble.


You the one who's in trouble big time!

Mat. 7:21-23
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (v.22) Many will say to me in that day,
Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils?
and in thy name done many wonderful works? (v.23) And then will I profess unto them,
I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

~~~~~

beloved57
August 4th, 2015, 02:34 AM
The Faith and Trust that Christ had in God in His Covenant engagments for us Heb 2:13

13 And again, I[Christ the Covenant Head] will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children[Christ Members] which God hath given me.

This word Trust is the greek word peithō and means:



persuade
to persuade, i.e. to induce one by words to believe
be persuaded
to listen to, obey, yield to, comply with
Its translated believed here Acts 17:4

And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.

Acts 27:11

Nevertheless the centurion believed the master and the owner of the ship, more than those things which were spoken by Paul.

Acts 28:23-24

And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

In fact the word Faith as in Eph 2:8 is the greek word pistis and it is from the same verb peithō , so peitho is the parent of Faith !

And Christ speaking as the Covenant Head swaers that He as the Head shall put His Faith/Trust in Him [God] and the Children [His Members] given to Him !

The Faith we have in God in Christ He gives it to us, as He is the Head and Mediator of the Covenant, and so the Faith of the Head becomes the Faith of His Members.

When we believe in time as per Jn 3:16, it only reveals that we had believed in our Head before our time, just like when we sinned in time it revealed we had sinned in our head adam before our time.

It also reveals that we by Him have obeyed Gods Law in the Most God Gloryfying way it could have been, so it is written Isa 42:21

21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable

Christ did this not as a private individual, but as a Covenant Head and Represenative !

So those who never believe and die in their sins Jn 8:24;3:18,36 means that Christ never believed for them. never obeyed Gods Law for them, so consequently they remain under the curse and condemnation of the Law, and cannot believe, for they were never His Sheep, His Children Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you

If they would have been His Sheep, they would have to believe because He already has Believed/Trusted for them Heb 2:13 !

beloved57
August 4th, 2015, 04:48 AM
Ye must be born again ! Jn 3:6-7

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

This is True for everyone Christ lived and died for, His Sheep, because it is through New Birth of the Spirit Christ's Faith is communicated to them !

Again the comparison is as with Adam, as the Elect had Adam as their natural Head and sinned in him, disobeyed in him, believed not in him Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

As a evidence of their oneness with adam in his disobedience Rom 5:19a

For as by one man's disobedience/unbelief many were made sinners/unbelievers, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Now as evidence of this fact, that they were one of the many made sinners/unbelievers, they are born physically of the flesh as sinners and unbelievers confirming their identification in adams sin !

So likewise, as an evidence of their oneness with Christ their Spiritual Head by Election in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4, and having obeyed in Him, having Trusted/believed in Him Heb 2:13

13 And again,I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

Now as evidence of this fact they are born again Spiritually and become believers/Trusters confirming their Identification in Christ's Obedience/ Faith !

They were given a nature of the flesh to identify with their natural head, and they are given a nature by or of the Spirit in newbirth to identidy with their Spiritual head !

Christ's Faith is communicated by His Spirit, when we are born again of the Spirit, which proves that we belonged to Christ Rom 8:9

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

So Christ's Sheep must be born again of the Spirit and they must believe ! If one never believes, they were not Christ's Sheep that Christ Lived and died for Jn 10:26 !

A matter of fact, if anyone Christ lived and died for goes to hell in their sins in unbelief Jn 8:24, it would be like saying a Believer has went to hell for their sins in unbelief ! See what a contradiction that would be ? thats because, even when they are unbelievers while in the flesh, they are or had been made believers already in their union with Christ when He believed for them !

beloved57
August 4th, 2015, 07:23 AM
Jesus said this Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Jesus here means by this, that He had other Sheep besides those He had in the jews, that He had Gentile Sheep too !

The key word here is Have Jesus says He has them ! The word have is the word echō and means:



to have, i.e. to hold
to have (hold) in the hand, in the sense of wearing, to have (hold) possession of the mind (refers to alarm, agitating emotions, etc.), to hold fast keep, to have or comprise or involve, to regard or consider or hold as

to have i.e. own, possess
Notice that it means not only to possess, but to own !

And such that He owns and possess shall hear His Voice and believe, because faith cometh by hearing the voice of Christ Rom 10:17

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Some Translations read:

So faith comes by hearing [what is told], and what is heard comes by the preaching [of the message that came from the lips] of Christ (the Messiah Himself).

So belief cometh of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

They shall hear Christ's voice through the Preaching of His servants as they Preach about Christ !

Now , concerning our text, even though Christ own and possed Sheep, they had yet to believe, however by the simple fact that they were His Sheep that He owned/possed they must believe; and heres why:

Those who belong to Christ, as a token or seal of His ownership of them, His Spirit is given to them, to mark them as His, and to reveal them as His, and so we read in Rom 8:9

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Now of course even the Sheep before New Birth dont have the Spirit of Christ experimentally, however thats why they must be born again, to show that they are Christ's Sheep, that they belong to Him !

Now this means that if a person never receives the Spirit of Christ, then they were never of His Sheep that He owned and Possed. Now understand, Christs Sheep were His Sheep before they believed and received the Spirit, but there was no evidence of them being owned by Christ and being His Sheep until they believe !

Its just not possible for anyone of Christ's Sheep to live and die without the mark of ownership [The Spirit], which is His Spirit Rom 8:9, and upon believing He seals them as Christ's Sheep Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard[Jn 10:16] the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Now the word sealed is the greek word sphragizō and means:

sphragízō (from 4973 (http://www.theologyonline.com/greek/4973.htm) /sphragís, "a seal") – properly, to seal (affix) with a signet ring or other instrument to stamp (a roller or seal), i.e. to attest ownership, authorizing (validating) what is sealed.

sphragízō ("to seal") signifies ownership and the full security carried by the backing (full authority) of the owner. "Sealing" in the ancient world served as a "legal signature" which guaranteed the promise (contents) of what was sealed.

The Holy Spirit is Christ's signature attesting to the Sheep being His.

Now where they His Sheep before the attesting of the Spirit ? Yes, we know this because He said, other Sheep I have that are not of this fold and they shall hear my voice Jn 10:16.

And of course they seal is applied after believing, which is the Fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

The Spirit gives us Faith to believe because we belonged to Christ, and because of that we must spiritually hear His voice and Believe as Promised Jn 10:16 !