"Ask Five" for chair

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Chileice

Chileice

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Chair,
I want to ask you five questions just for an answer. This idea is taken from AMR's idea on this thread:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=40575
to ask five questions of a fellow member.

1. What branch of Judaism are you from?
2. How do you view the Torah, Nabiya'im and the Ketabim (The law, the prophets and the writings)... are they equal or is the Torah the only "scripture" to you.
3. Do you think Jesus was a good rabbi?
4. What do you think of Gamaliel's advice as found in Acts 5.27-42?
5. What is your biggest objection to seeing Jesus as the Messiah prophesied in the law,prophets and writings?
 
Chileice

Chileice

New member
Chair,
Just in case you didn't see this earlier. I am still interested, if you are willing to give these five questions an answer. Thanks.
 
C

chair

Well-known member
Chileice said:
Chair,
I want to ask you five questions just for an answer. This idea is taken from AMR's idea on this thread:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=40575
to ask five questions of a fellow member.

1. What branch of Judaism are you from?
2. How do you view the Torah, Nabiya'im and the Ketabim (The law, the prophets and the writings)... are they equal or is the Torah the only "scripture" to you.
3. Do you think Jesus was a good rabbi?
4. What do you think of Gamaliel's advice as found in Acts 5.27-42?
5. What is your biggest objection to seeing Jesus as the Messiah prophesied in the law,prophets and writings?
Click to expand...

1. Orthodox
2. They are all part of the Tanach, our Bible. The Torah has special status within this Tanach. It is the basis of the Law. I am not sure what connotations the term "scriptures" has for you, so I am wary of using that English term.
3. It is quite possible that Jesus was a good Rabbi. I do not know. All of our reports about him are from Christian sources that I consider unreliable. It does seem that many of the statements attributed to him follow the rabbinic and Prpphetic traditions.
4. As I have said, I do not consider the New Testament a reliable source of information. This bit looks like a bit of propaganda - using a respected Jewish Rabbi to give a stamp of approval to othe Christian message.
5. Despite what Christians usually think, Jesus did not fulfill the basic expectations of a Messiah, even according to the Christian Bible - which, as I have said (twice so far), I do not consider a reliable source at all. See Isaiah 11 as the best example of unfulfilled prophecy. The "second comiing"is a lame excuse to explain this away.

Isaiah 53, which is usually thrown around in discussion like this, is not a Messianic text at all.

Also, note that we do not have room for a man-god in our monotheistic religion, not do we have Original Sin, so the major Christian claims are completely foriegn to Judaism. I suspect that Jesus himself would be apalled to hear of them.

Chair
 
Chileice

Chileice

New member
chair said:
1. Orthodox
2. They are all part of the Tanach, our Bible. The Torah has special status within this Tanach. It is the basis of the Law. I am not sure what connotations the term "scriptures" has for you, so I am wary of using that English term.
3. It is quite possible that Jesus was a good Rabbi. I do not know. All of our reports about him are from Christian sources that I consider unreliable. It does seem that many of the statements attributed to him follow the rabbinic and Prpphetic traditions.
4. As I have said, I do not consider the New Testament a reliable source of information. This bit looks like a bit of propaganda - using a respected Jewish Rabbi to give a stamp of approval to othe Christian message.
5. Despite what Christians usually think, Jesus did not fulfill the basic expectations of a Messiah, even according to the Christian Bible - which, as I have said (twice so far), I do not consider a reliable source at all. See Isaiah 11 as the best example of unfulfilled prophecy. The "second comiing"is a lame excuse to explain this away.

Isaiah 53, which is usually thrown around in discussion like this, is not a Messianic text at all.

Also, note that we do not have room for a man-god in our monotheistic religion, not do we have Original Sin, so the major Christian claims are completely foriegn to Judaism. I suspect that Jesus himself would be apalled to hear of them.

Chair
Click to expand...

Very interesting, chair. Thank-you for your thoughts and taking the time to answer. Obviously, I think your answers to #4 and #5 are a bit of a sidestep. Could you humor me with a thought just in case the words of Acts 5 are true. And can you name some specific messianic prophesies that Jesus really failed to fulfill in your eyes? You don't have to, but it would be a nice finish to those two questions.
 
C

chair

Well-known member
Chileice said:
Very interesting, chair. Thank-you for your thoughts and taking the time to answer. Obviously, I think your answers to #4 and #5 are a bit of a sidestep. Could you humor me with a thought just in case the words of Acts 5 are true. And can you name some specific messianic prophesies that Jesus really failed to fulfill in your eyes? You don't have to, but it would be a nice finish to those two questions.
Click to expand...

After many months I stumbled across this thread again, and saw that I have not replied to your last post.

My answers to #4 and #5 are not a "sidestep". I don't accept the New Testament as being an accurate historical document. If I asked you, in a similar context, "what do you think of this passage in Grim's Fairy Tales", it would not be sidestepping to point out that you don't consider the tales to be accurate.

As far as unfulfilled prophecies, this is the one I usually bring up, from Isaiah 11:

10 In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his place of rest will be glorious. 11 In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, [c] from Elam, from Babylonia, [d] from Hamath and from the islands of the sea.

12 He will raise a banner for the nations
and gather the exiles of Israel;
he will assemble the scattered people of Judah
from the four quarters of the earth.

Please let me know by PM if you respond, since I do not usually look at this part of TOL.
Chair
 
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