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beloved57
September 18th, 2012, 05:40 PM
Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


All for whom Christ died, have been reconciled to God, by His death alone, not by their obedience, not by their faith, not by their repentance, but even while they were being enemies, unbelievers, children of wrath as others BY NATURE, now if this be the case, their being reconciled, they cannot be under condemnation and wrath as others Jn 3:18,36 even while being unbelievers !

You see, they cannot be both condemned and under wrath as enemies and reconciled to God as enemies at the same time !

beloved57
September 21st, 2012, 10:07 AM
One of the reasons why everyone Christ died for are reconciled to God by His Death only, even while they are enemies or unbelievers , is because there is no sins against God's Law imputed to them, Christ's death has paid in full for them, and God has nothing against them, even while they themselves are enemies and unbeliers.

So its impossible for unbelievers whom Christ died for, to at anytime be considered one of the unbelievers pointed out here Jn 3:18 or Jn 3:36 !

Those are only unbelievers Christ did not died for and did not reconciled to God by His Death !

ChristNU
September 21st, 2012, 10:42 AM
It is truly amazing to watch those who claim to be able to see, not see what is a plain as the nose of their face.

Reconciled by His death.

Saved by His life.

Miss His life and you will miss more than just the nose on your face.

beloved57
September 21st, 2012, 10:55 AM
It is truly amazing to watch those who claim to be able to see, not see what is a plain as the nose of their face.

Reconciled by His death.

Saved by His life.

Miss His life and you will miss more than just the nose on your face.


Do you understand the point I made in the post ? Explain it to me !

beloved57
September 21st, 2012, 10:06 PM
All those reconciled to God by the Death of His Son, even while they were experientially being enemies in and of themselves by nature, even children of wrath as others by nature, yet through being reconciled to God, and accepted in His Favor, they must therefore be Perfect in His sight, because God accepts no one or thing less than Perfection, for His Holiness demands it. Whatever, if its not absolutely Perfect, Cannot be accepted with God ! But that Death of Christ, by which all for whom Christ died, and did reconcile to God thereby, even while being enemies, that Death of His or His Offering of Himself for them, made them Perfect before God ! Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering[His Death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

OMEGA
September 21st, 2012, 10:09 PM
Beloved77,

You have to answer this question.

Who are the Santified and what does Reconcile mean ?

keypurr
September 21st, 2012, 10:15 PM
All those reconciled to God by the Death of His Son, even while they were experientially being enemies in and of themselves by nature, even children of wrath as others by nature, yet through being reconciled to God, and accepted in His Favor, they must therefore be Perfect in His sight, because God accepts no one or thing less than Perfection, for His Holiness demands it. Whatever, if its not absolutely Perfect, Cannot be accepted with God ! But that Death of Christ, by which all for whom Christ died, and did reconcile to God thereby, even while being enemies, that Death of His or His Offering of Himself for them, made them Perfect before God ! Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering[His Death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

I disagree, If we have faith in him, he cleans our sins and makes us acceptable to his Father. We can not be perfect for we have human nature. Paul talks about how he fight ourselves to keep his Law but we must fight human nature. The law being spiritual is a stumbling block it not kept from the heart.

Peace beloved57

beloved57
September 23rd, 2012, 07:14 PM
keyp


I disagree, If we have faith in him, he cleans our sins and makes us acceptable to his Father.

Thats in your false religion. The Christ I serve cleansed my sins by His Blood alone, my faith came later after He revealed to me what He had done by His Blood !


We can not be perfect for we have human nature.

Again, that is in your false religion, The Christ I serve perfected forever those He offered Himself for by His Blood. This perfection is not in ourselves, its in Christ !

beloved57
September 23rd, 2012, 07:16 PM
Beloved77,

You have to answer this question.

Who are the Santified and what does Reconcile mean ?

I have answered those questions before, you need to read through my posts.

beloved57
September 23rd, 2012, 07:40 PM
What the adversaries of Truth have failed to acknowledge, and is why they are guilty of diminishing the Merit's of Christ's Death alone, apart from the application work of the Spirit, that is, even though these Christ died for, and by His Death did reconcile them to God Legally, even while they are being enemies; while others, whom Christ did not die for, and while they are being enemies, they are under God's Wrath and Condemnation as Per Jn 3:18,36

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

See, the Wrath of God cannot abide on any for whom Christ died, because for them, His Wrath has been appeased solely by the Blood of Christ !

Now clearly the only difference from one group being reconciled to God while being enemies, and another group being under God's Wrath and Condemnation while being enemies, the only difference is the Death of Christ ! If this cannot be acknowledged then we are against Christ, against His Death, against His Blood, and The Accomplishments of it before the Law and Justice of God for those He died for !

beloved57
September 26th, 2012, 09:52 AM
Even though I'm convinced that non imputation of sin preached in 2 Cor 5:19 was that of the Terms of the Everlasting Covenant Established before the World began and at which time Christ was confirmed as the Surety of the Covenant Heb 7:22 or Testament, yet for the opposer's of this great Gospel Truth, lets say that 2 Cor 5:19 is referring to the Cross at its actual time in Human History in or around 33 ad, then it would stand for reason that the Non Imputation described here is the one and same with the imputing of sins unto Christ, in order for Him to die for them 1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

And that being the case, for who can deny that Christ had to have had their sins imputed to Him, in order for Him to die for them ! Then at least no one Christ died for since 33 ad can be born in their sins, yes they can be born sinners, but they are born sinners that do not have the legal guilt and condemnation of breaking God's Law against them, and they are born sinners already reconciled to God by THE DEATH OF HIS SON !

Because it was His Death that satisfied God's Law and Justice for them against every transgression they will ever commit against it, God's Law. So, legally they are born Justified and Reconciled sinners In God's Sight !

beloved57
September 26th, 2012, 10:13 PM
2 Cor 5:19-20

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

The Gospel Call of Reconciliation in 2 Cor 5:20 " be ye reconciled to God" in the greek this is a command, an imperative, and it is also in the passive voice, meaning quite frankly the command is instrumental in actually reconciling those the summons is issued to, and this command is not to all men without exception, as false teachers that lie, would have us believe, but it is only to those that belong to that world before in Vs 19, that had not its trespasses imputed to them, and hence a forgiven world, a redeemed world ! And the OT confirmation of this premise is here Isa 43:25;44:22

25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

Or it can very well say, be reconciled to me Ye were reconciled to me by the Death of My Son Rom 5:10 !

Clearly Remission of sins is the foundation for the imperative, return unto me, which is but the OT counterpart for "be ye reconciled to God" and both appeals are made upon the doing away of their sins before God's Sight !

Those trespasses that were not imputed to that World in 2 Cor 5:19 were done away with by the Lamb of God Jn 1:29 ! And it is to them only, the Call goes out '"Be ye reconciled to God " !

God's Truth
September 27th, 2012, 12:38 AM
Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


All for whom Christ died, have been reconciled to God, by His death alone, not by their obedience, not by their faith, not by their repentance, but even while they were being enemies, unbelievers, children of wrath as others BY NATURE, now if this be the case, their being reconciled, they cannot be under condemnation and wrath as others Jn 3:18,36 even while being unbelievers !

You see, they cannot be both condemned and under wrath as enemies and reconciled to God as enemies at the same time !

Are you kidding? Paul implores people to be reconciled to God!

2 Corinthians 5:20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.

We have access to this grace by faith! See Romans 5:2. Where does our faith come from? Our faith comes from HEARING the word, see Romans 10:14. From hearing the word and being TAUGHT, Colossians 1:5, 7. From continuing in what we have been CONVINCED of, see 2 Timothy 3:14, and being PERSUADED, 2 Corinthians 5:11.

You say we do not have to believe and repent! It is not how you say! The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

beloved57
September 27th, 2012, 03:43 PM
gt


Are you kidding?

No. I put the proof right infront of you !

God's Truth
September 27th, 2012, 09:19 PM
gt



No. I put the proof right infront of you !

I think that you do not love God’s Truth you love your relationship with John Calvin.

beloved57
September 29th, 2012, 01:59 AM
I think that you do not love God’s Truth you love your relationship with John Calvin.

I do not love your god that is for sure, a dumb idol of your imagination !

beloved57
October 10th, 2012, 09:53 PM
2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

When Preaching the Word of reconciliation as the Apostle Paul did, it is imperative to Preach the Non Imputation of sin or trespasses unto those Christ died for and reconciled to God by His Death Rom 5:10, for in our text we read in 2 Cor 5:19 how was God reconciling the World [The Church] unto Himself, for it is put quite plainly " by not imputing their trespasses against them !

The word trespasses here is the greek word paraptōma and means:


to fall beside or near something

2) a lapse or deviation from truth and uprightness

a) a sin, misdeed

Its also where we get the word fall away as here Heb 6:6

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

So when one for whom God reconciled falls away, that one or ones does not have that laid to their charge. All for whom Christ died did fall away at first in Adam, that was not laid to their charge.

Now understand, everyone of that World in 2 Cor 5:19 is freed or Justified from all sin, they have a clean slate before God, God views them, even as sinners and dead in sin, He views them with no sin charges against them Rom 8:33 ! He views them as the blessed man here Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

The word man here is used generically to denote a group of both men and women, and we can very well understand Vs 8 to read this way:

8 Blessed is the world as in 2 Cir 5:19 to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Such a world is freed or Justified from the legal charge of sin before God !

beloved57
October 11th, 2012, 07:27 AM
I have shown from scripture that the Word of Reconciliation does include non imputation of sin 2 Cor 5:19, which means all those reconciled to God by the death of His Son are born into this world, yes as sinners by nature and depraved and enemies to God, but with no sin legally charged unto them ! They have a clean slate before God. Now for the next Gospel point of reconciliation and non imputation, it also means for those reconciled remission or forgiveness of sins, Notice Rom 4:7

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

The word forgiven here in the greek means this:

"to send away, set free;" also "to let alone," To be cancelled !

The idea is also that their sin debt to God's Law and Justice has been covered ! They are no longer in the face of God with regard to punishment due unto them !

Now Vs 8 helps clarify Vs 7, that is sins are forgiven and cancelled, and covered because they are not charged to them, because they are or have been charged to their Surety, the Lord Jesus Christ.

In light of this, the Reconciled world of 2 Cor 5:19, this Blessed World that the Lord WILL NOT IMPUTE SIN, is a forgiven World, the sins and trespasses of this World are covered !

So let it be known that the Reconciled World of 2 Cor 5:19; Rom 5:10a is a blessed, forgiven and justified World ! And for any to appeal to this verse to prove that Christ died for all without exception, they are guilty of wresting the scripture, and showing their willful ignorance of the Truth of the Gospel !

beloved57
October 12th, 2012, 08:53 AM
All those that Christ died for are legally, but not experimentally reconciled to God in Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Yes here in Rom 5:10a Paul is only speaking of Reconciliation legally before God, no sin has been imputed to our charge. Even when those Christ died for are yet enemies and unbelievers they have been reconciled to God; However he does goes on to speak on their experimental Reconciliation as a sure event to transpire in their life, this he does when he states " Much more, being Reconciled [while enemies] we SHALL be saved by His Life" Now this phrase 'shall be saved by His Life" means their experimental reconciliation is certain, which is what he means here Col 1:21-22

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, [B]yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Now in the Rom 5:10a passage Paul teaches that all for whom Christ died are reconciled to God legally, even while experimentally they were being enemies; and because of that reconciliation legally, they shall be saved from being enemies, which is what Paul stated to the believing Colossians here in Col 1:21, where Paul states they were once [past tense] enemies. But remember, even while being enemies in their mind, they had legally still been Reconciled to God by Christ's Death, but now they have been experimentally Reconciled.

So Paul Teaches by the Death of Christ a Twofold Reconciliation effected by Christ's Death, One which is solely legal, it being effected even while they are being enemies Rom 5:10a; and #2 One that is effected that saves them experimentally out of being enemies in their minds Col 1:21, and Both are effected by the Death of Christ Col 1:22

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through[because of His] death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Now understand this also, This also confirms that its Through Christ's Death as the Meritorious cause it effects both legal and experimental Reconciliations to God, even as it is called 'being saved by His Life" in Rom 5:10b !

So for anyone to say that Christ's Death alone, in and of itself does not save one experimentally, they are LIARS and ANTICHRIST !! For anyone to tamper with the Saving Efficacy of the Meritorious Death of Christ, His Blood and Cross, they are a Child of the Devil,m who perverts the Right ways of the Lord Acts 13:10

10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

The challenge is out for anyone to prove anything, any one point not true in this post, that sets forth truthfully the Gospel of Reconciliation by the Blood of Christ !

beloved57
October 19th, 2012, 07:41 AM
We do believe and preach that every Justified and or Reconciled sinner before God, and that solely premised upon His Death and or Blood as Per Rom 5:9-10, that sometime in their sinful physical lifetime that they shall receive a actual Spiritual Application of Justification and their Imputed Righteousness whereby they will receive a knowledge of it by Faith !

beloved57
October 28th, 2012, 03:46 PM
One who has been legally reconciled to God by the Blood of Christ or to say by His Death Rom 5:10, even while being enemies and unbelievers, this reconciliation is also their Justification before God, simply because reconciliation legally denotes the non imputation of their sins unto them 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So , legal reconciliation and non imputation of sin go hand and hand, and that can be the case only if God does not reckon them to be lawbreakers, because of the Blood of Christ shed for them alone, for Christ's sake alone, God hath accepted their persons as Righteous, not for anything in them by Nature, nor wrought in them by New Birth or the Spirit, but while they are being enemies by nature, and not for anything done by them , but for Christ's Sake alone ! It is not because of any Gospel Obedience such as repenting and believing, but because also of imputing the Righteousness and Obedience of Christ unto them, and this also while they themselves are being enemies by nature as well as being ignorant of their own Justification, and Reconciliation to God, solely by the Death of Christ !

ttruscott
October 28th, 2012, 05:18 PM
My problem with Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

is that it implies I was alive and an enemy when Christ died.

Even clearer here:
Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Were you a sinner, an enemy of GOD, when Christ died?

Peace, Ted

beloved57
October 28th, 2012, 08:35 PM
tt scot


Were you a sinner, an enemy of GOD, when Christ died?

This is not about me personally, just read the thread, for within it I have explained the Truth of reconciliation and what I believe about it ! And Rom 5:10, is pretty plain !

beloved57
October 29th, 2012, 08:58 PM
Everyone the Lord Jesus Christ died for was first and foremost or primarily reconciled to God objectively / legally . This did also occur when they themselves were sinners, ungodly, and without strength Rom 5:6-8

6 For when we [The Elect] were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we[God's Elect Rom 8:33-34] were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

For those scriptures have pointed out Christ's Death for those He died on the behalf of Rom 5:8 !

And so while or when ungodly sinners, Christ hath died for them or us, and by that Death, He did reconcile them unto God as plainly stated in Rom 5:10, now the word reconciled is the aorist passive indicative of katallassó which means legal and objective reconciliation is a finished work in the behalf of of those Christ did die for, while they are being in a ungodly and sinful condition Rom 5:6-8; and hath been reconciled [legally] by His Death alone, and so are they by the same death or blood Justified legally Rom 5:9. This is the word dikaioo and its an aorist passive participle denoting Just as when the elect were being enemies and ungodly sinners, Christ died for them, and by that death or blood passively reconciled them to God, so likewise, by that same death and blood referred to in Rom 5:9, passively and legally Justified them [made righteous] while being ungodly Rom 4:5.

The sinful condition of the Elect, those Christ died for, does not cancel out the legal benefits, the objective blessings of the blood of Christ, and so for this cause it is gross error to teach that the unbelieving elect vessels of mercy are ever in a legal state of condemnation by God as those who who believe not are in here Jn 3:18

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: [B]but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

To say that is false teaching !

beloved57
October 30th, 2012, 04:19 AM
Reconciliation in both Rom 5:10 ; 2 Cor 5:18-19 is objective or legal , it primarily consists of two things, the non imputation, and by the death of Christ, the satisfaction of God's Law, which also is the propitiation Heb 2:17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people

Reconciliation here is the greek word hilaskomai and means:

to be propitious, make propitiation for

I have mercy on, show favor to, (b) trans. with object of sins: I forgive, pardon.

This reconciliation is whereby God through Christ's Blood or Death hath reconciled sinful men [ the elect or the people] unto Himself ! Now because of Christ's Blood, God's anger and wrath has been laid aside and the sinner for whom He died [sinfulness and all] has God received into His Favor, for the word reconciled means:

to receive one into favour

Therefore, all for whom Christ died, regardless of their spiritual condition by nature, God accepts them and looks at them with favor and mercy, and frees them from any condemnation and or wrath !

beloved57
October 30th, 2012, 10:02 AM
Something to know about legal and objective reconciliation of the Elect, and that is this, that all the Elect while being enemies to Christ and God, are nevertheless legally still reconciled, received into God's Favor up until they are born again by the Spirit, or saved by Christ's Life Rom 5:10b. This means, but I do not teach it from scripture, but it does mean if an elect person were to die before new birth, that they would still be saved from the penalty of their sins, by the blood of Christ, that they would die objectively and legally reconciled into God's Favor by Christ's Death alone ! All of the sin and enmity the Elect by Nature have against God,while they are yet unconverted , and alienated from the life of God, and yes unbelievers, all that has been satisfied for by the blood of Christ ! In fact legal and objective reconciliation by Christ's Death Alone is that Propitiation John writes of in 1 Jn 2:2 !

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Propitiation:

akin to hileos ("merciful, propitious"), signifies "an expiation, a means whereby sin is covered and remitted."

The whole world of 1 Jn 2:2 is a world that has all of its sins remitted or covered. Like David said about the blessed Man Ps 32:1

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven or remitted, whose sin is covered.

Thats the blessing of Legal Reconciliation/ Propitiation !

beloved57
October 30th, 2012, 02:16 PM
Something to know about legal and objective reconciliation of the Elect, and that is this, that all the Elect while being enemies to Christ and God, are nevertheless legally still reconciled, received into God's Favor up until they are born again by the Spirit, or saved by Christ's Life Rom 5:10b. This means, but I do not teach it from scripture, but it does mean if an elect person were to die before new birth, that they would still be saved from the penalty of their sins, by the blood of Christ, that they would die objectively and legally reconciled into God's Favor by Christ's Death alone ! All of the sin and enmity the Elect by Nature have against God,while they are yet unconverted , and alienated from the life of God, and yes unbelievers, all that has been satisfied for by the blood of Christ ! In fact legal and objective reconciliation by Christ's Death Alone is that Propitiation John writes of in 1 Jn 2:2 !

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Propitiation:

akin to hileos ("merciful, propitious"), signifies "an expiation, a means whereby sin is covered and remitted."

The whole world of 1 Jn 2:2 is a world that has all of its sins remitted or covered. Like David said about the blessed Man Ps 32:1

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven or remitted, whose sin is covered.

Thats the blessing of Legal Reconciliation/ Propitiation !

The whole world of 1 Jn 2:2 that Christ is the propitiation in behalf of ,is a Justified World, because God has been propitiated for it, in the same manner that God had been propitiated towards the Publican in the story of Christ Lk 18:13-14

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

That word merciful is the greek word hilaskomai and means:


to render one's self, to appease, conciliate to one's self

a) to become propitious, be placated or appeased

b) to be propitious, be gracious, be merciful

2) to expiate, make propitiation for

The noun form of the same word is found in 1 Jn 2:2

hilasmos:

an appeasing, propitiating

2) the means of appeasing, a propitiation

Now Jesus enlightens here, that a sinner for whom God is propitiated for is a Justified person before God:

"I tell you, this man went down to his house justified "

The word Justified is the greek word:dikaioō:


to render righteous or such he ought to be

2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

So those who appeal ignorantly to 1 Jn 2:2 to prove that Christ died for the Whole World without exception, you are teaching falsely universalism, and that the whole World without exception has been declared Righteous before God !

God's Truth
October 30th, 2012, 02:27 PM
My problem with Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

is that it implies I was alive and an enemy when Christ died.

Even clearer here:
Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Were you a sinner, an enemy of GOD, when Christ died?

Peace, Ted

You proved to Beloved 57 that his doctrines are false, for he thinks he was always saved, even before he ever heard of Jesus. However, the scripture you gave explains that we are enemies of God until we come to Jesus in faith.

beloved57
October 30th, 2012, 05:52 PM
Reconciliation = Justification !

Many who are ignorant of the blessed effects of the death of Christ, by not realizing, and rejecting the Truth that reconciliation to God by the Death of His Son Rom 5:10 is the same exact thing "as now being Justified by His Blood" Rom 5:9 !

God's Truth
October 30th, 2012, 06:11 PM
Reconciliation = Justification !

Many who are ignorant of the blessed effects of the death of Christ, by not realizing, and rejecting the Truth that reconciliation to God by the Death of His Son Rom 5:10 is the same exact thing "as now being Justified by His Blood" Rom 5:9 !

through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:2.

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13.

We are not saved until we believe and have faith!

beloved57
October 30th, 2012, 06:44 PM
Many false teachers, those who teach that Christ died for all without exception, but only some of them shall be saved and those who teach that Christ died for all and all without exception shall be saved with none lost, they both teach that the World here in 2 Cor 5:19 means all mankind without exception ! However the rest of the words in the verse 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Proves them to be liars, and that world here is restricted first by the words " theirs" and "them" which refer to God's Chosen or Called as Per 1 Cor 1:2

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

1 Cor 1:24

But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

1 Cor 1:27-28

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;


And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

also the fact that these in 2 Cor 5:19 World had not their sins laid to their charge or they were not by God counted against them, reason being they were charged against Christ, so that He would die for them and satisfy their sin debt against God's Law and Justice, it was paid in full, for non imputation of sin is an key component of the Reconciliation of the World in 2 Cor 5:19, and all men without exception cannot be said not to have their sins counting against them since they are said to be condemned already Jn 3:18

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And some men are said to be abiding under God's legal and Judicial Wrath Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

The word abideth is a present indicative active, meaning they are in a state of God's Wrath or Vengeance !

However this cannot be True of any of that World of 2 Cor 5:19 because they are in a state of favor with God !

Also notice about those in Jn 3:36 who are under God's Wrath, there is a promise annexed to them, which is that they shall not see Life !

But those Reconciled to God by Christ's Death while they are enemies and unbelievers, being reconciled, the promise to them is that they shall be saved by Christ's Life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This destroys arminianism as well as universalism with one stroke of the pen !

beloved57
October 30th, 2012, 06:45 PM
through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:2.

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13.

We are not saved until we believe and have faith!

You reject the Truth and teach salvation by works, an antichrist teaching !

beloved57
November 19th, 2012, 06:07 AM
As in Justification, there is a difference between Objective/Legal Reconciliation and Subjective/ Experiential Reconciliation.

These must be kept distinct in that there is a big difference in what the Lord Jesus Christ did for His Sheep when He died on the Cross and what shall take place in them because of it; For the Apostles Doctrine taught both of objective and subjective Reconciliation. Now to understand the difference, Paul is teaching objective Reconciliation / Justification in Two places we shall observe #1 in Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Also 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

This Reconciliation [Legal and Objective] began in the Eternal Counsels of the Eternal Covenant, when it was agreed upon between the Father and the Son, the Surety of the People of the Elect or Sheep, that instead of trespasses that the Sheep will commit being charged or imputed to them, that they would instead be charged to their Shepherd, the Son, hence they were reconciled by the mere fact of Non Imputation of Trespasses of which Paul teaches in 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So Non Imputation equals Reconciliation, this is Objectively / Legally ! This Legal act of God had nothing to do with the actions of the sinners themselves, but only with the Divine Purpose to not to impute the Sins of the Sheep unto them but instead unto Christ their Shepherd ! So Christ is said to be slain from the foundation of the World for the sins imputed Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Secondly, Objective Reconciliation was accomplished,finished,fulfilled in time by Christ's Death and that alone Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This Reconciliation also is not based upon anything the sinner did, but solely " By the Death of God's Son " ! So what Paul has taught is that Reconciliation/ Justification began with the Offended Justice of God being satisfied for those Christ died for, and not with the offenders themselves whom Christ died for ! They themselves while this accomplished Reconciliation has taken place, are yet being enemies !

beloved57
November 19th, 2012, 07:53 AM
Now this legal and objective Reconciliation does presuppose an alienation of God to man because of their sins as here Isa 59:2

But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Yet this alienation hath been removed God ward by the Propitiation sacrifice of Christ 1 Jn 4:10

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Or to say by His Blood, consequently enabling God to receive them into His Favor, this Favor of Reconciliation is a Reality to God, accomplished solely by the Blood of Christ, even while the subjects themselves are not yet reconciled to Him, but they are being in a state of enmity and enemies by nature. The word reconciled is the greek word katallassō
and means:

to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value

a) to reconcile (those who are at variance)

b) return to favour with, be reconciled to one

c) to receive one into favour

God can Look at unreconciled sinners and receive them into His Favor as He does because of what the Death of Christ did against all their iniquities legally before His Law and Justice ! It took them all away ! But however, those have a Promise unto them, They all shall be saved by His [Christ's Life] See Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now why is that ? Because they still need to be saved from being in themselves enemies to God, for God is reconciled to them, before they are reconciled to God, because their nature hates God and is at enmity with Him, so They shall be saved from that disposition !

beloved57
November 19th, 2012, 05:50 PM
They shall be saved by Christ's Life which means, because of the accomplishment of objective reconciliation, they shall be saved out of being enemies, into subjective reconciliation by the Life of Christ, which life is communicated to them by New Birth by the Spirit, thats why for all whom He died and objectively reconciled, by His Mediation, a Life Giving Spirit He became 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

As Risen Saviour and Head, He must communicate Life to His Body of which He is the Saviour of Eph 5:23

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body.

The Spirit is given to all for whom He died through Him, which is Paul's meaning here Titus 3:5-6

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Please notice that the renewing Work of the Spirit, that saved them, was poured out or shed forth on them Through Jesus Christ our Saviour, hence, they were saved by His Life !

So in essence both objective and subjective Reconciliation of the sinner are of God 2 Cor 5:18

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Objectively by the Death of Christ, and Subjectively by the communicated Life of Christ by the Spirit in New Birth ! Any not hearing and receiving this Gospel Witness of reconciliation are in darkness even now and are rejecting the Truth !

IMJerusha
November 19th, 2012, 06:57 PM
I'm just trying to find the word "impute" anywhere in the Scriptures! (sorry, couldn't resist).

If I'm understanding the gist of this thread, I think of where John dedicated his writing of the revelation of Yeshua "to him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father -- to him be glory and power for ever and ever!" This same revelation clearly states that overcoming the evil of the end times and the beast "calls for the patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus." Does Yeshua's own revelation to John contradict His own sacrifice? No, of course not, yet there it is plain as the nose on one's face, a twofold requirement for reconciliation and the ability to overcome. The freedom we have in His blood does not negate the necessity for obedience and faithfulness.

IMJerusha
November 19th, 2012, 10:48 PM
You reject the Truth and teach salvation by works, an antichrist teaching !

Can Yeshua teach against Himself? Luke 24:45-47
Repentance is a work. Forgiveness is a work. Works such as love and repentance, obedience and forgiveness are evidence of Ruach HaKodesh in our lives, the lack of which results in our being lopped off from the vine and cast into fire (Matthew 7:19). By these works, fruit of the Spirit, are we recognized and such is not antiChrist. Yeshua said, "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather" (a work) "with me scatters. And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit."
Again, in John 15:1-10, Yeshua Himself places a caviat on our salvation. "If" we remain in Him. "If" we bear fruit. "If" we are obedient. If, If, If! I can not ignore Yeshua's "If's".

beloved57
November 20th, 2012, 12:01 AM
im


If I'm understanding the gist of this thread

Please rehearse the points I have made in posts 33-35 to see if you understand where I am coming from !

beloved57
November 20th, 2012, 12:31 AM
Now scripture that teach Subjective Reconciliation by Christ's Death Col 1:21-22

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Now notice here how Paul is attributing Subjective Reconciliation out of being enemies or a state of enmity, to Christ's Death in Vs 22, because he understands that, whet he called saved by His Life in Rom 5:10b is but the fruit of Christ's Death, whereby they were reconciled objectively, even while being enemies in their minds and doing hostile works, but because of the communication of His Life, Christ's Death is said to even reconcile them Subjectively out of being alienated and enemies, so again Col 1:22-23 teaches Subjective Reconciliation !

God's Truth
November 20th, 2012, 10:05 AM
You reject the Truth and teach salvation by works, an antichrist teaching !

Only Satan would like what you teach and say to me. Who else is behind telling people to obey Jesus is wrong and accursed!!!!


The works no one has to do for a relationship anymore is circumcision, various external washings, various offerings, and the observance of special days! We still have to believe and obey Jesus.

beloved57
November 20th, 2012, 10:39 AM
1 Pet 3:18 teaches Subjective Reconciliation by Christ's death !

1 Pet 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

The phrase here " That He might bring us to God" denotes Subjective Reconciliation, for His suffering and being put to death in the flesh, His dying on the Cross, was for the Purpose of bringing the Elect of God to God, and He did accomplish that. This bringing to God means to draw near, it means to render one acceptable to God !

This denotes that the enmity they had has been dealt with by the death of Christ as well and now they come into communion and fellowship with God !

Now this vital Truth of Reconciliation is important because when properly understood as it is taught in scripture, there is no room for the false teaching of Jesus Christ having died for everyone without exception, simply because, everyone without exception shall not be saved by His Life, as it is promised to all that were reconciled by His Death !

Jesus tells us that there are many who shall not see life Jn 3:36- This statement cannot apply to any for whom Christ died, and thereby reconciled them to God by His Death.

Also those who falsely teach that no one was actually reconciled to God objectively solely by the Death of His Son, but only they are given a basis for Reconciliation to God, if they believe, those are teaching lies and a false Gospel, for scripture is plain that all for whom Christ died were objectively Reconciled , and that the same shall be subjectively reconciled in time by a communication of Christ's Life to them by the Spirit of God !

OMEGA
November 20th, 2012, 10:43 AM
BELOVED,

It is good of you to study and search out God's truths.


Here are some more Truths for you to consider.

First we have to define Works and the Law.

Works can be Jewish Rituals/Mosaic Law or Good Deeds.

Law can be Mosaic, Ten Commandments, Jewish Tradition.

--Rom3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith?
God forbid yea, we establish the law.

--Eph_2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

--Heb_8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old.
Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

--Heb_9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service,
and a worldly sanctuary.


------------------------------------------------------------
Act17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at;

but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood,

before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

Act_2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call

on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

1Ti_2:4 Who will have all men to be saved,

and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

beloved57
November 20th, 2012, 11:20 AM
omega


BELOVED,

It is good of you to study and search out God's truths.

You have evaded all my comments on this thread,please start at post 33 and let me see if you understand my points !

IMJerusha
November 20th, 2012, 12:13 PM
im



Please rehearse the points I have made in posts 33-35 to see if you understand where I am coming from !

Rehearse? No thank you, Brother. I'm fairly certain Ruach HaKodesh has instructed me according to His will. The Gospel message is simple. To what end the in-depth explanations of God and His purposes?...to make man feel like more than what he is?... as if man is even capable of explaining Him. In Matthew 18:3 Yeshua said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." It's interesting to note who Yeshua spoke this to... His own...those whom He chose, and yet there it is, another caviat.

We do have the right to explain ourselves, however. My name is Jerusha. The "IM" before my name is for "I'm" as in I'm Jerusha.

beloved57
November 20th, 2012, 12:16 PM
im


Rehearse? No thank you,

Ok , Then I holler at you later. I have put much work into my posts just to have them blowed off !

IMJerusha
November 20th, 2012, 01:22 PM
im



Ok , Then I holler at you later. I have put much work into my posts just to have them blowed off !


You misunderstand. I haven't blown your posts off at all. Speaking of blown off posts, did you miss the part where I explained my name? If you can not address your fellows with the love of the Spirit, a very basic attribute of Christianity, how can you expect any Christian, or pagan for that matter, to pay any heed to your hollering?...and hollering is all it will ever be, much like a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

beloved57
November 20th, 2012, 01:26 PM
im


You misunderstand. I haven't blown your posts off at all.

Ok then:


Please rehearse the points I have made in posts 33-35 to see if you understand where I am coming from !

IMJerusha
November 20th, 2012, 01:48 PM
re·hearse/riˈhərs/
Verb:

Practice (a play, piece of music, or other work) for later public performance.
Supervise (a performer or group) that is practicing in this way.

Synonyms:
repeat - recite


Basically, what you are wanting is unconditional acceptance of your teaching. So sorry!

beloved57
November 20th, 2012, 01:56 PM
im


Basically, what you are wanting is unconditional acceptance. So sorry!


No, I am not asking you to agree with it, but just prove to me that you understand my points and how I derived them from scripture !

IMJerusha
November 20th, 2012, 02:03 PM
im




No, I am not asking you to agree with it, but just prove to me that you understand my points and how I derived them from scripture !

I do beg your pardon, Brother, but I'm not the one who has difficulty utilizing the English language (I'm Jerusha) and if I didn't understand your points, I certainly couldn't and shouldn't be disagreeing with them. To demand that I reiterate your points is fruitless, to put a fine Scriptural point on it.

beloved57
November 20th, 2012, 02:21 PM
im


I do beg your pardon, Brother, but I'm not the one who has difficulty utilizing the English language

Perhaps you are on the wrong site, we speak English here !

IMJerusha
November 20th, 2012, 02:32 PM
im



Perhaps you are on the wrong site, we speak English here !


Yes, we do. Thank you for your loving witness. :carryon:

beloved57
November 21st, 2012, 11:04 PM
When the Apostles, having been directed by the Spirit of God and His Divine Providence, did send forth the Gospel Exhortation or Imperative in Christ's stead 2 Cor 5:20

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Understand that it was not an invitation for everyone in the world without exception, neither was it to men and women dead in trespasses and sins or in a lost state, whom they were attempting them to cooperate with God, But it was an exhortation to them that had been given Faith, to believe, to embrace and receive experientially their Atonement or reconciliation Rom 5:11

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

The word atonement here is the greek word katallagē which is also translated reconciliation in 2 Cor 5:18-19


18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Also the imperative ' Be ye reconciled" in Vs 20 is aorist imperative passive, which means this exhortation was the means by which God reconciled them subjectively to Himself. Remember what Paul said of his mission to the gentiles Acts 28:18

18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Notice that words to turn them Its the word epistrephō which means:


transitively

a) to turn to

1) to the worship of the true God

b) to cause to return, to bring back

And that is what the imperative " be ye reconciled to God" did, it cause a return to God, it brought them back !

Also finally Rom 5:11 Please notice in this verse by whom they received the reconciliation, it was not by their own freewill, but it was by or through Jesus Christ !

Rom 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Christ was responsible for them receiving it experientially by Faith ! Thats because He is a Total Saviour !

beloved57
December 31st, 2012, 04:46 PM
2 Cor 5:18-19

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Listen to Paul's Gospel, His Word of Reconciliation here in our text. First lets look at Paul asserting in Vs 18, for this is a Key Gospel Truth

#1 All things are of God ! We recall when Jesus told His disciples after they having inquired of Him, who then shall be saved What was Jesus response ? Matt 19:25-26

25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

So hence, all things pertaining to Salvation, Reconciliation are of God !

Yes, this Reconciliation is one of those all things possible with God. Ones being Reconciled to God is of God Himself ! And how ? By Jesus Christ, that is by His Death, His Blood for they mean the exact same thing !

Turn to Rom 5:10 where the same word for reconciled is used as in 2 Cor 5:18 !

Reconciliation consisteth in Vs 19 God not imputing [ for the ones Christ died for] their guilt of Trespasses unto them, which in itself is pardon and Justification ! Now why is that also Justification ? Because God is not charging us with sin that we deserve, which means God Justifieth us Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

That is we are acquitted by this act of Non Imputation which is Justification :

Non Imputation of sin is another way of God saying I will not lay any charges against us, which constitutes forgiveness and Justification by God before His Divine Tribunal in Heaven, even though our enemies, and the devil and our own conscience can lay charges against us !

Princely
December 31st, 2012, 06:51 PM
Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


All for whom Christ died, have been reconciled to God, by His death alone, not by their obedience, not by their faith, not by their repentance, but even while they were being enemies, unbelievers, children of wrath as others BY NATURE, now if this be the case, their being reconciled, they cannot be under condemnation and wrath as others Jn 3:18,36 even while being unbelievers !

You see, they cannot be both condemned and under wrath as enemies and reconciled to God as enemies at the same time !

You misunderstand scripture and the power of God because you belong to Satan and not the One who lives.

I am anointed with the spirit of the Lord who sent me, God is my Father,
I do the will of my Father and live in His wishes.

Whoever speaks on his own seeks his own glory, but whoever seeks the glory of the one who sent him is truthful, and there is no dishonesty in his heart.

I did not come on my own, the one who is true sent me, Him you do not know.
I know him, because I come from him, he’s the one who sent me.

If you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.
When you honor the Son of Man, then you will realize that I AM, and that I do nothing on my own, but I only say what the Lord has taught me, for the one who sent me is with me. He has not deserted me, because I always do what pleases him.

The Lord says this;

"Your own wickedness chastises you your own infidelities punish you, know then and see how evil and bitter you are in forsaking the Lord your God and showing no reverence of me."

"Do what is right and just."

"Offer righteous worship and trust in the Lord."

"Let the righteous rejoice in the Lord and take refuge in Him ,let all the upright of heart glorify Him."

Those are the words of the Lord who sent me. I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Lord except by me.

Anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood shall live forever and I shall raise him up on the last day.

Anyone who drinks the water I give him shall never become thirsty, the water I give him will be like a fountain inside him rising up to provide eternal life.

The Lord and I are One. I am son of man. I came for judgment.

Anyone who hears my words and does not keep them I am not the one who condemns him for I did not come to condemn the world but to save it. Anyone who rejects me and does not accept my words they already have their judge namely the words I've spoken that is what will condemn them on the last day.

beloved57
December 31st, 2012, 07:16 PM
princely


You misunderstand scripture and the power of God because you belong to Satan and not the One who lives.

lol as long as i do not belong that false god you serve !

beloved57
January 11th, 2013, 04:40 AM
Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Now this Reconciliation solely by Christ's Death or Blood is by Atonement, in other words Reconciliation is by Atonement through Christ's Blood.

Dan 9:24

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The word Reconciliation here is the hebrew word kaphar d means:


to cover, purge [Heb 1:3], make an atonement, make reconciliation, cover over with pitch

to cover over, pacify, propitiate

2) to cover over, atone for sin, make atonement for

So Paul writes after the Psalmist Rom 4:7

Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. See Ps 32:1

Now notice whats next in Dan 9:24 following Reconciliation of Iniquity, its to bring in Everlasting Righteousness !

This is the Righteousness of God imputed to all for whom Christ was made sin for 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

This is that Everlasting Righteousness that Christ hath wrought out and Established for all them He was made a sin offering for, an Atonement for !

Ps 119:142

Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth. Law Here is likely the Gospel !

For that Righteousness of God that was established by Making Reconciliation of Iniquity, Atonement, the Covering of Sin, that Righteousness is Revealed to all the Beneficiaries by the Gospel Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

So the Reconciled World of 2 Cor 5:19 and those Reconciled to God by the Death of His Son even while they are Enemies, have all been covered by and clothed with that Everlasting Righteousness by Imputation, and that before they know about it or believe into it !

beloved57
February 13th, 2013, 06:23 PM
Those that Christ died for and reconciled to God by His death, even while they were being enemies/unbelievers, but reconciled nonetheless, they shall [promise] be saved by His Life. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now what does that mean, they shall be saved by His Life ? That means by His resurrected Life they shall believe and be saved Luke 8:12

Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Acts 16:31

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

So in Essence, Rom 5:10 guarantees that all for whom Christ died for and reconciled to God by His Death even while they were unbelievers/enemies, that they shall become believers and be saved by His Life !

beloved57
February 21st, 2013, 02:46 AM
Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

"much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life"

Now to whom does this promise apply ? Why it applies to all whom were reconciled to God by the Death of His Son while they were being enemies/unbelievers, whomever they are. Now some will contend that Paul here is writing to believers, which fact is True, However they willfully neglect to understand what he wrote to the believers of Rome, some fact about them that was true when they were not believers, but enemies and in unbelief, and that was, even then as enemies in their minds by wicked works as per Col 1:21, they were nevertheless reconciled to God [in His Favour] solely by the Death of His Son for them, and thus being reconciled [ as enemies/unbelievers] they shall be saved by His Life !

Now what does it mean that they shall be saved by His Life ? Well after His reconciling Death, He now forever lives to make Intercession for those He died Heb 7:25

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Meaning all those He died for shall be saved by His Life, His Intercession, which lives on doing as an addendum to His reconciling Death.

Those who are reconciled by His Death [ in any age of world history from the beginning of the world to its end] as an added benefit and blessing thereof, they shall be saved by His Life, out of being enemies and unbelievers Col 1:21 by His Intercession which He ever liveth to perform on their behalf. The Saving Here means that they shall be saved through His Life of Intercession, and thoroughly converted to God, and that is what " They shall be saved by His Life means Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

beloved57
February 26th, 2013, 02:53 PM
Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This scripture teaches a Blessed Truth that very few can receive, and that is there is a Saving or Salvation that comes after Reconciliation and it applies only to those that were reconciled to God by Christ's Death, while they were being Enemies.

That word enemies in the original is present tense, denoting while being in a state of being enemies/unbelievers, they were reconciled, which is past tense, and all such reconciled, while being enemies, shall be saved by His Life, that is Salvation shall be applied to them !

beloved57
February 26th, 2013, 08:19 PM
Now understand this, Christ's Death does save in a way of Justification solely by His Death, the conversion experience of both faith and repentance of the ones saved by way of Justification before God is not needed, but only His Death Rom 5:18-19

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience [death] of one shall many be made righteous [or Just as in Justified.

Isa says the same thing here Isa 53:1

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

The He shall bear their iniquities is the same and equals to in Rom 5:19 " So by the Obedience of One " that Obedience consisted in bearing their iniquities at His Death. And by that Obedience alone they are Made Righteous or Justified. The word Justify in Isa 53:11 is the Hebrew word tsadaq :


to be just, be righteous

to have a just cause, be in the right

2) to be justified

3) to be just (of God)

4) to be just, be righteous (in conduct and character)

b) (Niphal) to be put or made right, be justified

c) (Piel) justify, make to appear righteous, make someone righteous

So Yes, Justification of Life here as Per Rom 5:18, and 19 being made Righteous equals to Salvation in that they are saved from, delivered from the penalty of all their sins and the condemnation thereof of God's Law ! This Justification of Life came solely upon Christ's One Act of Righteousness, as opposed to Adam's one act trespass that did merit condemnation. The Justification of Life by one [Christ's act] is just as real as the condemnation was for Adam's one act; Hence all for whom Christ died, have to their credit forever, Justification of Life, saved from the penalty of Sin which was against God's Law and Justice, and that forever, even while they are unbelievers and enemies, though they will become believers in their lifetime [The Just shall live by Faith] But until then, they are saved [by Justification of Life] !

beloved57
March 8th, 2013, 06:03 AM
Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.



Who is it that shall be saved ? I like that word shall in scripture, for it denotes certainty, ,it will occur ! It means something is sure to happen by the promise and word of Him that cannot lie. Now here is a for sure promise to everyone Christ died for, and by His Death Reconciled them to God, even while they were being enemies/unbelievers, they all, everyone of them, Shall be Saved ! How ? By His Life !

So who is it that shall be saved [By His Life] ? All those whom were reconciled to God by Christ's Death while they were enemies and unbelievers, thats who !

beloved57
March 16th, 2013, 03:51 AM
The difference between the enemies that God Loves through Christ as Per Rom 5:10 whom Christ died for, and His enemies whom He did not Love through Christ and for whom Christ did not die for is this: Now those enemies God does Love, when Christ died for them, by His Death they were reconciled to God [received into His Divine Favor] even while being enemies Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled[as enemies, we shall be saved by his life.

And the promise to those reconciled enemies is that they shall be saved by His Life [future indicative]

So clearly there is Hope of Salvation promised to all reconciled enemies/unbelievers by Christ's Death alone ! Whereas those enemies that Christ did not die for while being enemies, instead of being reconciled to God, the wrath of God is abiding on them Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Not only is the wrath of God abiding on them [not reconciled] they have a promise of NOT SEEING LIFE ! Future indicative, they have no promise of being saved by His Life as those enemies have in Rom 5:10, the difference being, the Death of Christ. Christ's Death guarantee's all those enemies He died for shall be saved by His Life !

beloved57
May 25th, 2013, 02:29 PM
Most of my teaching has been on the objective side of Reconciliation, that all for whom Christ died, even while they are enemies, nevertheless they have been objectively, legally reconciled to God, and that solely by His Death. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies/unbelievers, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, [B]much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now there is another truth about the Reconciliation that the Work of Christ for His People provides and effectuates, and that is a Reconciliation in His People, through Christ. Col 1:21-22

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

It cannot be denied here that Paul is acknowledgment to Christ's Death " In the body of his flesh through death" to be the cause why they were no longer " alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works",which they were by nature. If you recall in Rom 5:10 when just objectively Reconciled by Christ's Death, they were still enemies but here in this verse Paul's extends the Reconciliation by Christ's Death to save them out of that state of enmity.

This is so because the Reconciling Death is the meritorious cause or reason for them receiving New Life from the Spirit, and by this New Spiritual Life, they are Now Reconciled experientially, which is but the fulfillment of the promise in Rom 5:10 b They shall be saved by His Life ! The Saving by His Life there is experiential Reconciliation or Conversion ! In other words, those who are objectively reconciled by Christ's death while still being unconverted, the promise is that they shall be converted or saved by His Life !

For all this is in line with the Purpose of His Death, which was to bring those He died for back to God 1 Pet 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins[His Death], the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

The word bring is a strong word and it means:

to cause to come to or toward oneself; attract

Or we can say it means to reconcile us experientially to God.That was a main Purpose for Christ being put to death for those He died for, in order to convert them to God. If that does not happen for each one He died for, God's Purpose in His Death has failed ! So each Person He died for shall be Reconciled inwardly to God also !

beloved57
May 31st, 2013, 08:50 AM
Those who are reconciled to God while they are yet enemies/unbelievers, by Christ's Death, The promise to them is that they SHALL be saved his life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The Life here is His resurrected Life, whereas He after Resurrection, forever liveth to make Intercession for them, which results in their coming to God by Him. Heb 7:25

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth [His Life] to make intercession for them.

So, the promise for the reconciled in Rom 5:10 is a promise of the application of salvation to the reconciled. This means that conversion is owing to the ever living intercession of Christ, the one who died for them.

The requirement for Christ interceding for any, isn't that they be believers already, but that He died and rose again in their behalf Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

So Christ's Intercession saves those He died for in that it ensures the Spiritual application of all of His saving merits,carried out by or executed by the Holy Spirit.

As a result the Holy Spirit saves them experimentally Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

This saving here by the renewing of the Holy Ghost is ensured by the ever living intercession of Christ, to all for whom Christ died and reconciled to God, up to the end of the age,this is a guarantee as Long as Christ Liveth !

lovemeorhateme
May 31st, 2013, 08:53 AM
Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

All for whom Christ died, have been reconciled to God, by His death alone, not by their obedience, not by their faith, not by their repentance, but even while they were being enemies, unbelievers, children of wrath as others BY NATURE, now if this be the case, their being reconciled, they cannot be under condemnation and wrath as others Jn 3:18,36 even while being unbelievers !

You see, they cannot be both condemned and under wrath as enemies and reconciled to God as enemies at the same time !

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. - 1 John 1:9

How can we be reconciled or forgiven without repentance?

beloved57
May 31st, 2013, 09:21 AM
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. - 1 John 1:9

How can we be reconciled or forgiven without repentance?

You are avoiding the Truth. Please rehearse the points with me of the post you quoted, then evaded.

beloved57
June 18th, 2013, 06:05 PM
All those whom Christ died for, by His Death alone, apart from any obedience of their own, and in fact while they were being enemies, they have been reconciled to God [received into His Favor], again solely by His Son's Death Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we [B]were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now these reconciled enemies, unbelievers here in Vs 10 are the same ones of that World Paul states this of in 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

But now how does this square with what is written, the imperative in Vs 20 ?

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Here is the meaning, in Rom 5:10 and 2 Cor 5:19, those whom Christ died for are Reconciled to God objectively while still in the flesh[sin nature] and very much unconverted and at enmity with God, but now when the imperative is issued, a summons to Gospel Faith and Obedience, " Be ye reconciled to God" It is when they are in their New Nature, Born of God, and now it is time for them to have a special apprehension of that Reconciliation that Christ has already accomplished or Established with God for us. Its a calling into fellowship 1 Cor 1:9

God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

Before and without a New Birth and Nature we are not fit vessels for Communion and Fellowship with God.

So that's the difference, When merely objectively reconciled, we are still in a state of nature and enmity against God, and hence the Need of New Birth Jn 3:7, then we are reconciled to God inherently.

The imperative in Vs 20 is actually a turning us to God, because though it is an imperative, its in the passive voice, meaning By the Command God is actually reconciling us to Himself, we are the subjects of God's Command, it works upon us. That's why the Gospel is called the Power of God unto salvation to everyone who is believing.

beloved57
June 19th, 2013, 07:31 AM
Now who does this apply to [Reconciliation of the reconciled], for it only applies to believers, for only believers were reconciled to God by Christ's Death while being unbelievers. They were reconciled to God apart from any previous conditions performed in them or by them, it being solely perform by Christ's One Act of Obedience upon the Cross [Phil 2:8], meaning His Death/ Blood.

beloved57
July 16th, 2013, 10:34 AM
2 Cor 5:19,17

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Exactly what is this word of Reconciliation ? The Word of Reconciliation is actually found in Vs 17, All for whom Christ died are by His Death alone, legally before God's Law and Justice, a New Creature or Creation :

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Everyone Christ died for and rose from the dead in behalf of, are in Him and by that a New Creature !

This Message of Reconciliation is a fact accomplished for all whom He died, and all of them have a declared standing of having been Reconciled to God, and no sins can be imputed to/against them Vs 19

All for whom He died, their sins against God have all been purged away Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Because of what Christ has done, all for whom He died are in a New Relationship with God .

The point is, their Faith is not what made them New Creatures, the Work of Christ did that alone, not even the Spirit did that at first; but Faith is called forth in the preaching of the Word of

Truth/Reconciliation, that those who are Spiritually alive are persuaded of that accomplished fact; So it is that we Trust Christ if we are already New Creatures.

In this we do not Trust Christ in order to be made New Creatures, but we Trust Him because we were made New Creatures. All who are made New Creatures positionally by His Death and Resurrection, are given life and Faith to become New Creatures experientially.

Paul Preaches in Reconciliation, that all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ 2 Cor 5:18

18 [B]And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Because of His Death alone, believers had a New Creation status of being Reconciled to God [while enemies], all that had been written against them as Per Col 2:14

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

All things pertaining to their sins and transgressions against God's Law, that made us guilty have been taken away from the record books, expunged,wiped out, so that they have been exonerated from them,so that not any of them will ever have to fear this scenario Rev 20:11-15, even though their names will concern one of those books then [The Book of Life] but for all others, the books record their evil deeds and iniquities against God's Holy Law and Gospel, and they shall be sentenced accordingly.

But the Message of Reconciliation is that the very sins the reprobate will be punished for, those very same type sins were never charged to those Christ died for, for in His Death, God was not charging them their Trespasses against them. This is the Word of Reconciliation.

False Prophet
July 16th, 2013, 12:10 PM
And the word of Jehovah came unto me, saying, 2Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, even to the shepherds, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Woe unto the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the sheep? 3Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill the fatlings; but ye feed not the sheep. 4The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought back that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with rigor have ye ruled over them. 5And they were scattered, because there was no shepherd; and they became food to all the beasts of the field, and were scattered. 6My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my sheep were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and there was none that did search or seek after them .

7Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of Jehovah: 8As I live, saith the Lord Jehovah, surely forasmuch as my sheep became a prey, and my sheep became food to all the beasts of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my sheep, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my sheep; 9therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of Jehovah: 10Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my sheep at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the sheep; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; and I will deliver my sheep from their mouth, that they may not be food for them.
Ezek 34

beloved57
July 17th, 2013, 07:37 AM
All for whom Christ died have been objectively reconciled to God solely on the merits of Christ's Death. Now this means that by Christ's Death alone, those He died for are restored into a right relationship with God, even to a higher degree than they had in Adam before he sinned, even while they themselves in themselves are enemies, unbelievers, ungodly. Now how is this so ? Through the Lord Jesus Christ !!

Yes, that's the purport of Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

That word reconciled means:

to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value

a) to reconcile (those who are at variance)

b) return to favour with, be reconciled to one

c) to receive one into favour

Its to be now approved of God ! Ps 5:12

For thou, Lord, wilt bless the righteous; with favour wilt thou compass him as with a shield.

Now again, those Christ died for have been given this favor with God, even while they are enemies in themselves, they are Justified Rom 5:9 !

However, this objective reconciliation which put them in the favor of God, a right relationship with Him, it precedes and effects subjective life, which is experiential Salvation by Christ's Life. One translation reads:

10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, it is much more [certain], now that we are reconciled, that we shall be saved (daily delivered from sin’s dominion) through His [resurrection] life.AMP

Now understand Paul's point here, that all whom have been objectively reconciled to God by Christ's Death [which is all for whom He died] being thusly objectively reconciled [while enemies, unbelievers] THEY SHALL BE [A Promise] SAVED/ Delivered/ Reconciled [Subjectively] by His Life !

Now understand, those whom Christ died for are not reconciled to God objectively when they believe, no, for they were reconciled objectively [put in a right relation with God, in His Favor] solely by Christ's Death and Blood, while being unbelievers and enemies.

Now not until that reconciled one is born again with Life from Christ and by the Spirit, they remain alienated from the life of God subjectively.

So in light of this, all for whom He died and reconciled to God[objectively] while being enemies,they must also be born again or made alive in accordance with their favorable relationship status they already have by Chris's Death for them.

The New Birth by the Spirit is the answer to the promise " THEY SHALL BE SAVED BY HIS LIFE" that is by His Resurrected Life which gives them New Birth.

Proof of that is seen here 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Notice what Peter declares the Father did through the Resurrection of Christ from the dead. He hath begotten us again. The words for begotten us again in the original are anagennaō:

to produce again, be born again, born anew

2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

Some translations read :

May the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ be blessed! On account of his vast mercy, he has given us new birth. You have been born anew into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.CBE

That's how those that Christ died for and reconciled to God [objectively] while they were enemies and unbelievers, this is how God makes Good the Promise, that those so reconciled while enemies, SHALL BE SAVED BY HIS LIFE, this is the fulfillment of the Promise , Their New Birth !

This New Birth is also called being saved according to His Mercy here Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Is that not the same " according to His Mercy " here in Peter 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Yes it is, Peter just adds abundant mercy to his statement. So New Birth to live and New Life to God is granted to all for whom Christ died and reconciled to God while they were enemies. This cannot be denied without denying the Truth of scripture.

beloved57
July 17th, 2013, 11:47 PM
Romans 5:10 is actually a Gospel declaration of what God through Christ has done for His Elect, and what He shall yet do for them through Christ. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

For He that spared not His Son but gave Him Up for us all [ The Elect] how shall He not along with Him bestow upon us all things, which includes giving us life by Him. Rom 8:32

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

2 Pet 1:3

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

You see, the giving of His Gift, His Son would be incomplete if by giving Him He did not with Him bestow Eternal Life upon us or subjective Spiritual Life. That is how one is saved out of death, by God communicating to them spiritual life, and that is what Christ's death merited for all whom He died. That's why Eternal Life [subjective spiritual life] s called the Gift of God through [by means of] Jesus Christ our Lord !

beloved57
August 26th, 2013, 08:26 AM
Reconciliation is Salvation because it puts them whom Christ died for into a experimentally saved state, which was promised here Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Reconciliation puts those Christ died for into fellowship with God, and His Son the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.

Yes, the reconciliation that Christ has accomplished by His Death has a double effect, first, those sinners He died for, He has by His Death reconciled God to them, for God could have no fellowship with them if sin has not been removed from them by His Law and Justice. Without God having been reconciled to those Christ died for, their sin would have been their eternal ruin, their fall in adam would have been fatal and without remedy. Yes even before that death occurred in time [in adam], God was reconciled by Christ's death, for He was the Lamb slain from the foundation Rev 13:8, if this had not been true, sin in adam could not have been atoned for, mercy could not have been shown; However the wrath and enmity the elect did incur by their sin in adam, and within themselves, was charged to Christ, because He Loved them, and had become their Surety before they sinned. This is the reconciliation Paul writes of in Rom 5:10a and 2 Cor 5:19 which consisted in not having their trespasses imputed to them, and so even while they were being enemies by nature, they had already been reconciled to God by the Merits of Christ's Death, even though Christ had not yet even died in time !

Then secondly, those Christ died for, they themselves personally shall be reconciled to God subjectively, by the Work of the Holy Spirit in them by New Birth, producing the spiritual gifts of Faith and Repentance; and thats why its said of those who have been reconciled by His death they are or shall be saved[reconciled subjectively] by His Life, this doctrine proves that all for whom Christ died shall be saved.

The Reconciliation of Christ death is ineffective if it does not turn all for whom He died from their sins as Per Acts 3:26

26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Thats the great blessing promised Abraham Gen 12:3

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

The blessing is being turned away from our iniquities, That granting Faith and Repentance.

The ISV gives the proper sense to Acts 3:26

26 When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.”

The word bless here is crucial to understand, its the word verb eulogeó and means:

(lit: I speak well of) I bless; pass: I am blessed,properly, to speak (reason) which confers benefit; hence, bless.

In other words to bless both in Gen 12:3 and Acts 3:26 means the conferring of a benefit upon ! Or to bestow it upon them !

Its speaking of the Application of the Benefits of Christ's Death; Thats what being blessed means, Christ Himself is responsible for the application of the Merits of His death to those He died for, which application turns them away from their sins, or wickedness or evil ways.

And thats part of the Blessing of the Reconciliation that Christ accomplished by His Death ! Christ in it is actually active in turning those He died for from sin. So He completely saves [reconciles] His People from their sins Matt 1:21 !

beloved57
August 31st, 2013, 03:15 PM
Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

When it is promised that those who were reconciled to God while they were enemies, by the Death of God's Son Christ, and being those reconciled, they shall be saved by His Life; We must understand that His Life is their's also, for He neither died or rose again as an private person, hence He rose from the dead as their Head and Representative, as the Head of the Church, His Body Col 1:18

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Yes, again, He rose from the dead as the Head of the Body, the Church; so thats why His Life is their life, He lives from the dead they shall live from the dead.

It's guaranteed that they shall be saved by His Life, the Life of their Head. Jesus speaking to His Church Jn 14:19

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

Jesus here is speaking to members and representatives of His body the Church, His disciples. Yes at this time when He spoke those words they did believe on Him already, but many more[of the Body] shall believe on Him through their word Jn 17:20

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

And they shall believe because He Lives as their risen Head and Saviour to give them their share of His Life for them 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

As with adam they received from him physical life as he was their head, so too with Christ as their Risen Head they shall receive Life from Him, so all for whom He died shall be saved by His/their Life, for Christ is their Life Col 3:4

When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

And thats why they shall be saved by His/ their Life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

beloved57
September 1st, 2013, 02:55 PM
Shall be saved by His Life ! What exactly does this mean ? To be saved here in Rom 5:10 is conversion, its to be saved from the power of sin like here Acts 26:18

18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

So it means to be saved from the power of sin or satan, but what it does not mean is being saved from the penalty of sin, no that comes exclusively by the blood or death of Christ; Thats why it is said of them right before that promise [they shall be saved by His Life] it reads that they had been reconciled to God by His death, while they were being enemies or unconverted. Yes, one can be saved from the penalty of their sins by forgiveness through His Blood, without being saved from the power of sin yet. The saved here in Rom 5:10 is that Salvation God's Elect experience through the Sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13 and that of Titus 3:5; however having been saved from the penalty of sin must precede being saved from its power.

All those Christ died for are always saved from the penalty of sin and from the legal guilt of it Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

3 God’s Son has all the brightness of God’s own glory and is like him in every way. By his own mighty word, he holds the universe together.

After the Son had washed away our sins, he sat down at the right side of the glorious God in heaven.CEV

They are saved from the penalty of sin even while they themselves are dead in trespasses and sins, but however they are ensured to be delivered or saved from the power of sin by Christ's Life.

So the sequence is saved from the penalty first, then saved from the power of sin, and one day shall they be saved from the very presence of sin !

beloved57
September 2nd, 2013, 05:45 PM
They all shall live whom He died for and redeemed. Redemption is from death Hosea 13:14

I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.

The devil had the power of death Heb 2:14

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Through Christ's Death, all for whom He died have been delivered/redeemed from death, to include Spiritual Death. If Christ's death does not deliver from spiritual death, we would ever remain spiritually dead.

You see death is the wages of sin, but by Redemption all sins have been taken and forgiven. He obtained Eternal Redemption for us, those He died for Heb 9:12

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The word redemption lytrōsis means:

deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin

Again the penalty of sin is death Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

By Christ's death all for whom He died have been delivered from the wages of sin, which is death, and therefore for Christ's Sake should be awarded Life, and that more abundantly.

If all for whom Christ died do not receive New Life because of being delivered from the penalty of sins by His Death, then His death was not redemptive at all.

God's Truth
September 2nd, 2013, 06:36 PM
Reconciled while enemies is about GENTILES; they were reconciled to God while still enemies---they did not have to clean themselves first with any of the old laws ceremonial external cleanings before being saved.

beloved57
September 2nd, 2013, 07:25 PM
gt


Reconciled while enemies is about GENTILES;

oh Yeah, Was Paul a Gentile ? Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

God's Truth
September 2nd, 2013, 08:43 PM
gt



oh Yeah, Was Paul a Gentile ? Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


to men without Law as if I were without Law--although I am not without Law in relation to God but am abiding in Christ's Law--in order to win those who are without Law.
1 Corinthians 9:21

beloved57
September 2nd, 2013, 09:04 PM
to men without Law as if I were without Law--although I am not without Law in relation to God but am abiding in Christ's Law--in order to win those who are without Law.
1 Corinthians 9:21

Was Paul a Gentile ? Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Eph 2:16

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Do you know who the both are here being reconciled to God ?

God's Truth
September 2nd, 2013, 09:23 PM
Was Paul a Gentile ?


to men without Law as if I were without Law--although I am not without Law in relation to God but am abiding in Christ's Law--in order to win those who are without Law.
1 Corinthians 9:21




Do you know who the both are here being reconciled to God ?

When Jesus came to earth and had his earthly ministry---God had cut off and hardened the Jews who did not have faith in HIM before Jesus came. God cut off those Jews and left them all to disobedience WITH THE GENTILES.

Now, Jews like the Gentiles have to come to God through FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST.

Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

beloved57
September 2nd, 2013, 09:27 PM
to men without Law as if I were without Law--although I am not without Law in relation to God but am abiding in Christ's Law--in order to win those who are without Law.
1 Corinthians 9:21



When Jesus came to earth and had his earthly ministry---God had cut off and hardened the Jews who did not have faith in HIM before Jesus came. God cut off those Jews and left them all to disobedience WITH THE GENTILES.

Now, Jews like the Gentiles have to come to God through FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST.

Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Do you know who the Both are here ? Eph 2:16

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

You said:


Reconciled while enemies is about GENTILES;

God's Truth
September 2nd, 2013, 10:08 PM
Do you know who the Both are here ? Eph 2:16

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

You said:


When Jesus came to earth and had his earthly ministry---God had cut off and hardened the Jews who did not have faith in HIM before Jesus came. God cut off those Jews and left them all to disobedience WITH THE GENTILES.

Now, Jews like the Gentiles have to come to God through FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST.

Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

beloved57
September 3rd, 2013, 06:48 AM
gt


Reconciled while enemies is about GENTILES;

That statement is error, its false and here is why Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Paul Identifies himself with one of the ones reconciled while being an enemy. Now Paul is a jew, Phil 3:4-5

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Also this scripture shows you are in error Eph 2:16

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Both here means both jews and gentiles, which means both jews and gentiles needed to be reconciled by His Death of the Cross which is what Rom 5:10 means by we being reconciled by His Death. So you are in error !

beloved57
September 3rd, 2013, 07:10 AM
Many today refuse to acknowledge that the Reconciliation of the Cross of Christ of all those He died for is their Salvation. Yes Rom 5:10 actually informs us that all for whom Christ died shall be saved.

The reconciliation here informs us that those reconciled to God by Christ's death shall also be saved by being brought back into a relationship of fellowship with God. Thats what being saved entails, it means as well as other things [like saved from the penalty of sin] it means also to bring into the Fellowship with God and the Lord Jesus Christ. All those Christ died for are at first by nature alienated from the Life of God, estranged from Him, dead in trespasses and sins, and are enemies in their minds towards God by wicked works, but the Death of Christ, effects reconciliation of them to God as taught here Col 1:21-22

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Notice here Paul says that they had been reconciled from a state of being at enmity in their minds by wicked works, that they had been reconciled out of that How ? In the Body of His flesh through Death ! That is the same Death Paul mentions here Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now I challenge anyone to prove that Christ's Death here in Rom 5:10 that Paul focuses on is not the same one in Col 1:22 that Paul focuses on.

This proves from scripture that Christ's death in and of itself saves them He died for and puts them into a right relationship and fellowship with God.

To deny this is to simply deny the Cross of Christ, which constitutes an unbeliever. A believer does not and cannot deny that the Cross of Christ saved those He died for.

God's Truth
September 3rd, 2013, 08:46 AM
gt



That statement is error, its false and here is why Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Paul Identifies himself with one of the ones reconciled while being an enemy. Now Paul is a jew, Phil 3:4-5

Paul was not saved as the other apostles were saved. Paul was not of the remnant who was saved by faith when Jesus was alive on the earth. Paul was an enemy of God, he tried to destroy the Church.



4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Also this scripture shows you are in error Eph 2:16

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Both here means both jews and gentiles, which means both jews and gentiles needed to be reconciled by His Death of the Cross which is what Rom 5:10 means by we being reconciled by His Death. So you are in error !

The Jews who were saved when Jesus had his ministry on earth---those were the only Jews saved at that time---the rest of the Jews God cut off and left to disobedience with the Gentiles.

When Jesus was crucified, then all men can come to him, but remember that first he came for the remnant of Jews saved by faith. If the rest of the Jews do not persist in unbelief, God can graft them back in.

beloved57
September 3rd, 2013, 08:55 AM
gt


Reconciled while enemies is about GENTILES;


That statement is error, its false and here is why Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Paul Identifies himself with one of the ones reconciled while being an enemy. Now Paul is a jew, Phil 3:4-5

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Also this scripture shows you are in error Eph 2:16

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Both here means both jews and gentiles, which means both jews and gentiles needed to be reconciled by His Death of the Cross which is what Rom 5:10 means by we being reconciled by His Death. So you are in error !

God's Truth
September 3rd, 2013, 09:28 AM
gt




That statement is error, its false and here is why Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Paul Identifies himself with one of the ones reconciled while being an enemy. Now Paul is a jew, Phil 3:4-5

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Also this scripture shows you are in error Eph 2:16

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Both here means both jews and gentiles, which means both jews and gentiles needed to be reconciled by His Death of the Cross which is what Rom 5:10 means by we being reconciled by His Death. So you are in error !

All the Jews who God cut off when Jesus was on earth, they can now be grafted back in if they do not persist in unbelief. See Romans 11:23.

beloved57
September 3rd, 2013, 10:10 AM
gt


Reconciled while enemies is about GENTILES;

That statement is error, its false and here is why Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Paul Identifies himself with one of the ones reconciled while being an enemy. Now Paul is a jew, Phil 3:4-5

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Also this scripture shows you are in error Eph 2:16

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Both here means both jews and gentiles, which means both jews and gentiles needed to be reconciled by His Death of the Cross which is what Rom 5:10 means by we being reconciled by His Death. So you are in error !

beloved57
September 7th, 2013, 03:35 PM
2 Cor 5:20

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Those who are bidden here in this verse " be ye reconciled to God", are the Spiritually born who were previously already reconciled to God by His Son's Death while they were enemies Rom 5:10, but they are now in the Spirit, because if they were not already, they would be yet still in the flesh and with a carnal mind and at enmity with God Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Until one is born again of the Spirit, and now have new life, they do but only abide in death by nature 1 Jn 3:14

14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

Also when in a unregenerate state, we as men abide in darkness and are darkness Jn 12:46

I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

Eph 5:8

For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

And while we are darkness, we cannot comprehend the Light Jn 1:5

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

comprehend[katalambanó] here means :

a) I seize tight hold of, arrest, catch, capture, appropriate, (b) I overtake, (c) mid. aor: I perceived, comprehended.

The darkness, which we all are by nature, does not appropriate the Light, does not capture it, cannot receive it,

Cannot receive the Light of the Truth or the Gospel.

And God will not call darkness to Himself, nor welcome it to Himself for Fellowship, darkness is never reconciled to God, not even possible it should be. It is not possible to walk in unregenerate darkness and yet have Fellowship with God 1 Jn 1:6

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

So we must discard any notion that the Imperative in 2 Cor 5:20 "Be ye reconciled to God " is an call or appeal to the unregenerate. Light does not call darkness, and God is Light 1 Jn 1:5

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Light does not call darkness into Fellowship, but seeks Fellowship with Light !

beloved57
September 12th, 2013, 10:21 PM
More on the Reconciliation that Christ's Death accomplished for all whom He died. First of all, Christ's death did reconcile sinful sinners to Himself, not that He did not Love them and needed to be reconciled in that regard, but in that their sins forbade Him to be in personal fellowship and communion with them. It is an alienation of His Life of Fellowship like the prodigal son experienced with his Father Lk 15:12-13

12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.

13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.

What the wayward son lost was fellowship with his Father but not His Father's Heart of Love .

But not only that, its strictly by the reconciliation in Christ's death, that those He died for, that God reconciles them [subjectively] to Himself, in other words it deals with the sinners personal alienation from God in his own mind, the issue being in the sinner and not in God. The enmity is in the sinners mind against God, not in God's Mind towards the sinner, as stated here Col 1:21-22

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

That word reconcile in Vs 21 is the word apokatallassō and means:

to reconcile completely

to reconcile back again

bring back a former state of harmony

Notice again who Paul states that was alienated and enemies in their minds in Vs 21, not God, but You writes Paul.

But Christ's Death and it alone effects the change of mind in the sinner, in the sinner Christ died for. Yes, Christ's death is responsible for the reconciling of sinners in their minds back to God. In other words, when the prodigal son experienced a change of mind as here Lk 15:17-20

17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.

20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

What all this pictures is the effects of the Death of Christ bringing back an wayward sinner back to God, for he no longer has any enmity and hostility in his mind towards his Father and returns, and his doing that is to be credited to the praise of the Death of Christ, its effects, and nothing else; for that was one of the Great and Splendid purposes of His Death, as Peter says here 1 Pet 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that[purpose] he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Which He did succeed in doing. In other words, Christ's death is 100 % responsible for any sinner's true conversion to God in Faith and Repentance, and no man Preaches the Word of reconciliation aright as Per 2 Cor 5:19-20 without understanding that ! For the word of reconciliation is preached to produce, bring to light the blessed effects of the reconciling death of Christ !

beloved57
September 13th, 2013, 07:48 AM
We know that the scripture teaches that Reconciliation is Salvation when we consider its use in its contrast with national israel rejection and the reconciling of the Gentiles / World here Rom 11:15

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

And Paul makes the same exact contrast earlier in Vs 11 Rom 11:11

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Through their fall, corresponding to their being cast away in Vs 15

Salvation is come to the Gentiles , corresponding to Reconciliation in Vs 15

Salvation is also the Riches that come upon the Gentiles Vs 12 Rom 11:12

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Its the riches of His Grace upon them as Per Eph 1:7

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Eph 2:7

That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Eph 3:8

Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

beloved57
September 13th, 2013, 10:06 PM
Shall be saved by His Life ! Who shall be saved by His Life ? All those who were by His Death reconciled to God while they were enemies Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The words much more denotes , now even better , being reconciled, we shall be saved His Life ! One of the things this means is this, all for whom Christ died, and now has been raised again for their Justification [Rom 4:25], after for them having satisfied God's Law and Justice, He now lives to make evident the success of His Redeeming Death, to apply the benefits of His Vicarious Obedience to all for whom He died and reconciled to God, which is the Church that He Loved Eph 5:25, or His Sheep Jn 10, or God's Elect Rom 8, by the efficacious Grace of His Spirit !

beloved57
November 1st, 2013, 10:57 PM
Reconciliation is Justification for the simple fact its acceptance, reception, approval with God ! Its the greek word katallassō:

I.to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
A.
to reconcile (those who are at variance)

B.
return to favour with, be reconciled to one

C.
to receive one into favour

In God's Favor they are in a state of being approved !

We are approved of God by Christ's Death Rom 5:10. Remember what God said to cain here Gen 4:7

If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

God is telling him , if thou do what ir right,do thoroughly and thou wilt be approved, received into favor, lifted up !

Now God told him that knowing that none doeth well or right ! Ps 14:1

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Ecclesiastes 7:20

For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Rom 3:12

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

However God's People, the Seed of the Women, are accepted with Him by the Seed of the Women Rev 12 doing well, and so we are reconciled [received into favor] by the Death of His Son + nothing ! which pleased Him for us, Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

God told cain that if he did well he would be received/accepted, but the Holy Seed, its if Christ doeth well that we should be accepted, See the difference ? Those who base their acceptance with God by them doing well, that's the way of cain Jude 1:11

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

Seeking acceptance with God in themselves doing well ! And Acceptance with God is Our Justification !

God's Truth
November 2nd, 2013, 10:58 AM
Beloved57,

You should be reported and given infractions for posting this way. You are spamming the threads. You do not care about discussing the scriptures. No one is even reading about your false ideas.

ttruscott
November 2nd, 2013, 12:42 PM
Rom 5:10

...when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son...

Does this apply to you and me? Were we HIS enemies at His death before we were supposedly even created... This would imply that our enmity with HIM was before our creation so either HE created us as evil by HIS eternal plan as B57 contends

OR

we were created as innocents pre-earth and in sheol we made our true free will decisions to reject all or part of HIS purpose for us and self created ourselves as HIS enemies needing reconciliation by the death of HIS Son.

Peace, Ted

Nanja
November 2nd, 2013, 01:15 PM
Beloved57


However God's People, the Seed of the Women, are accepted with Him by the Seed of the Women Rev 12 doing well, and so we are reconciled [received into favor] by the Death of His Son + nothing ! which pleased Him for us, Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.


Absolutely! It was God's purpose to punish Christ for the sins of all those He had chosen to eternal life before the foundation of the world. That's what it means to be reconciled to God. No other way! Christ was their Redeemer before He ever was the Creator. (Rev. 13:8; 2 Tim. 1:9; 2 Thes. 2:13)

Knowing that the Bible teaches these truths, how is it that anyone can imagine that they can satisfactorily please God based solely on trusting in their own good works of accepting Christ, repenting, obeying His commandments...?

But once we know we have been accepted by God through the death of Christ, revealed by the gift of faith given to us in the new birth (Eph. 2:8), then our good works please God!

Heb. 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. (Who can come to God? John 6:44)

~~~~~

beloved57
November 2nd, 2013, 03:53 PM
Beloved57,

You should be reported and given infractions for posting this way. You are spamming the threads. You do not care about discussing the scriptures. No one is even reading about your false ideas.

Why did you evade the Truth ? You hate it !

beloved57
November 2nd, 2013, 03:54 PM
Beloved57




Absolutely! It was God's purpose to punish Christ for the sins of all those He had chosen to eternal life before the foundation of the world. That's what it means to be reconciled to God. No other way! Christ was their Redeemer before He ever was the Creator. (Rev. 13:8; 2 Tim. 1:9; 2 Thes. 2:13)

Knowing that the Bible teaches these truths, how is it that anyone can imagine that they can satisfactorily please God based solely on trusting in their own good works of accepting Christ, repenting, obeying His commandments...?

But once we know we have been accepted by God through the death of Christ, revealed by the gift of faith given to us in the new birth (Eph. 2:8), then our good works please God!

Heb. 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. (Who can come to God? John 6:44)

~~~~~

You made some good points !

God's Truth
November 2nd, 2013, 04:25 PM
Why did you evade the Truth ? You hate it !

You are the one who hates God's Truth.

You love John Calvin's teachings.

beloved57
November 2nd, 2013, 04:44 PM
You are the one who hates God's Truth.

You love John Calvin's teachings.

You hate the Truth and avoid discussing it. All you want to do is boast about your fake obedience to that fake god you worship.

God's Truth
November 2nd, 2013, 09:27 PM
You hate the Truth and avoid discussing it. All you want to do is boast about your fake obedience to that fake god you worship.

You blasphemy.

beloved57
November 3rd, 2013, 04:37 AM
You blasphemy.

Yeah, right and you hate the Truth of God. Change your screen name" I Hate God's Truth !"

God's Truth
November 3rd, 2013, 11:26 AM
Yeah, right and you hate the Truth of God. Change your screen name" I Hate God's Truth !"

Your demons are having you personally attack me. Submit to God and resist the devil. Start believing what God says, and not what John Calvin says.

beloved57
November 3rd, 2013, 02:33 PM
Your demons are having you personally attack me. Submit to God and resist the devil. Start believing what God says, and not what John Calvin says.

Yeah, right and you hate the Truth of God. Change your screen name" I Hate God's Truth !"

God's Truth
November 3rd, 2013, 03:28 PM
Yeah, right and you hate the Truth of God. Change your screen name" I Hate God's Truth !"

Your hairy crown is showing.

beloved57
November 3rd, 2013, 03:45 PM
Your hairy crown is showing.

Yeah, right and you hate the Truth of God. Change your screen name" I Hate God's Truth !"

beloved57
February 1st, 2014, 08:26 PM
Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

One for whom Christ died does not have to be a believer in Christ in order for His Death to reconciled them to God, they can and are unbelievers while reconciled !

God is 100 % completely reconciled to all for whom His Son died, and His death did also redeem them from the curse of the Law Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Note, it was not the believers faith that did this, neither their repentance did it, but solely by the fact that He died and was made a curse for them, that's what did it, that reconciled them to God and it redeemed them from the curse of the Law, it put them into the favor of God, the word reconciled in Rom 5:10 is the greek word Katallasso:

to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value to reconcile (those who are at variance)
return to favour with, be reconciled to one
to receive one into favour

Rom 5:10

For if, when we were haters of God, the death of his Son made us at peace with him, much more, now that we are his friends, will we have salvation through his life; BBE

God's Law and Justice can never charge them with law breaking or sin, nor their Surety anymore, for all that they owed to God's Law and Justice is finished Jn 19:30

30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished [redemption and reconciliation]: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

That word finish in the greek also means pay Matt 17:24

24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

Rom 13:6-7

6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

In other words, Christ for all those He died, hath fulfilled or paid in full and completely all that was due to God's Law and Justice, regarding their debts, and nothing else can be owed or charged to them He hath redeemed and reconciled.

Also the word finished in Jn 19:30 is in the perfect tense, which means action that has been once and for all completed in the past, yet its results carry on into the present ! The Elect or those He died for are born as sinners and ungodly in themselves into the world, yet already sin debt free and reconciled into God's peace and favour !

God's Truth
February 1st, 2014, 11:03 PM
Yeah, right and you hate the Truth of God. Change your screen name" I Hate God's Truth !"

I know you do hate God's Truth.

SeraphimsCherub
February 2nd, 2014, 12:53 AM
I know you do hate God's Truth.

No this is absolutely UN-true. The B57...is like the great wall of adamant who never wavers from giving any one but exactly what is written...the way it is written. And for that i admire him. He gives you what you see...is what you get from the Scriptures. He's not tossed to~&~fro from every sleight of new libertarian~Jesuit Schemed~doctrines futile attempts to overthrow the WORD OF GOD...

God's Truth
February 2nd, 2014, 12:59 AM
No this is absolutely UN-true. The B57...is like the great wall of adamant who never wavers from giving any one but exactly what is written...the way it is written. And for that i admire him. He gives you what you see...is what you get from the Scriptures. He's not tossed to~&~fro from every sleight of new libertarian~Jesuit Schemed~doctrines futile attempts to overthrow the WORD OF GOD...

He is a liar and a slanderer. He said I hate God's Truth. He is the one who hates God's Truth.

1Mind1Spirit
February 3rd, 2014, 05:28 PM
He is a liar and a slanderer. He said I hate God's Truth. He is the one who hates God's Truth.


MAYBE...... Hating Gods truth was a little strong.

John 3:19 KJV
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Then again....... Maybe he said it right.

John 15:18 KJV
If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

Nanja
February 3rd, 2014, 06:29 PM
No this is absolutely UN-true. The B57...is like the great wall of adamant who never wavers from giving any one but exactly what is written...the way it is written. And for that i admire him. He gives you what you see...is what you get from the Scriptures. He's not tossed to~&~fro from every sleight of new libertarian~Jesuit Schemed~doctrines futile attempts to overthrow the WORD OF GOD...

Succinctly stated, SC.

And not only do I concur completely, but I also thank God for beloved57 and his valuable contributions on this forum.

~~~~~

God's Truth
February 4th, 2014, 12:58 AM
MAYBE...... Hating Gods truth was a little strong.

John 3:19 KJV
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Then again....... Maybe he said it right.

John 15:18 KJV
If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.


Beloved57 is the one speaking of hate first.

With the measure he used against me is the measure he will be judged.

glorydaz
February 4th, 2014, 01:46 AM
Beloved57 is the one speaking of hate first.

With the measure he used against me is the measure he will be judged.

Yep, when you accuse someone of lying and then you do it yourself, you will be judged. You finally got one right, GT. :thumb:

glorydaz
February 4th, 2014, 01:47 AM
Your hairy crown is showing.

Lovely...just lovely, GT.

1Mind1Spirit
February 4th, 2014, 01:25 PM
Yep, when you accuse someone of lying and then you do it yourself, you will be judged. You finally got one right, GT. :thumb:

Gt is the one who said B57 lied, then he lied by calling him a slanderer.


Originally Posted by God's Truth
He is a liar and a slanderer.

You cosigned him so you may partake of his judgement also.:thumb:

beloved57
March 4th, 2014, 06:42 AM
Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

All those Christ died for, by His Death alone, have been Reconciled to God, while they themselves are enemies, now if that is True, then they had to be also Justified, because Reconciliation entails that they have been put in a Right standing with God, in His Favor ! The word for reconciliation is katallassō means:

I.to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
A.
to reconcile (those who are at variance)

B.
return to favour with, be reconciled to one

C.
to receive one into favour

To be in God's Favor denotes being approved by Him, being accepted by Him much like Eph 1:6

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved

It means Highly Favored !

Now for this to be, they have to be Justified from all sin, which they are if and since Christ died for them, having all sin of theirs imputed to Him and not them, leaving them free from the charge of sin, which = Justiciation Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

So Rom 5:10 could read and be true like this Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were Justified before God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

No harm is Done !

beloved57
March 14th, 2014, 11:01 PM
Many today in organized, apostate false religion, whether from church going folk or folk who have separated themselves from organized religion unto their own form of apostasy, they are liars when they tell us that Christ's Death that effects Reconciliation to God for those He died for Rom 5:10, that its only one sided ! For the Truth of the matter is that His Death effects both, for it reconciles God to man and man to God, because man by nature are at enmity to God, yet it reconciles them to God from their estrangement causing them a return to God, much like what happened with the prodigal son when he said Lk 15 :18,20

18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

And he arose , and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off , his father saw him, and had compassion , and ran , and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

Now his returning back to his Father is a beautiful picture of what the Death of Christ alone accomplished and effected upon all those He died for 1 Pet 2:24-25

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

wordsponge
March 14th, 2014, 11:12 PM
Hello brother,

How does someone become an enemy of GOD?

Just give me what you have.....

I had a discussion about it a few years ago with a Hindu.
He insisted to the end that GOD was too great to have enemies.

Keep well,

beloved57
March 15th, 2014, 03:55 AM
Hello brother,

How does someone become an enemy of GOD?

Just give me what you have.....

I had a discussion about it a few years ago with a Hindu.
He insisted to the end that GOD was too great to have enemies.

Keep well,

Post 120, did you read it ?

beloved57
March 15th, 2014, 03:15 PM
Now 1 Pet 2:24-25 , this passage shows us if we have eyes to see, how that the death of Christ in Vs 24, called there His Stripes, how that it caused them He took the stripes for, or died for, to return to the Bishop and Shepherd of their Souls in Vs 25 because His Stripes healed them 1 Pet 2:24-25

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

The proof or evidence of the Healing is their return to God, which is also reconciliation of them to Him. The word returned here in the greek is epistrephó and means:

I turn (back) to (towards), (b) intrans: I turn (back) (to [towards]); I come to myself. However its an aorist indicative passive, meaning the person who is turning or returning is being turned, acted upon, its the efficaciousness of the Stripes of Christ that causes the person to turn, who was once gone astray ! Thats the end desired and purposed by God for the death of Christ, to return the lost sheep back to Him, and it was very successful !

The proof of the healing is the sinners being returned to God as exemplified here in the prodigal son Lk 15:18, 20

18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

This is evidence from the scripture that Christ's Death also reconciles those gone astray , estranged men and women who are His Sheep, they are brought back to God or again as the Apostle Peter writes 1 Pet 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

That's reconciliation also ! His suffering for our sins, was for the purpose of bringing us back to God if indeed we were of His Sheep or Elect !

beloved57
March 16th, 2014, 01:59 AM
Another scripture passage that proves that Christ's death reconciles the estranged sinner back to God is here Col 1:20-22

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Notice for emphasis "And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled"

And how was that Paul ? "In the body of his flesh through death"

Folks what can be more plainer than that, that the Apostle here attributes the reconciliation of the ones " that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works,"

He attributes their reconciliation to God to Christ's Death !!!! He writes that it was through Death ! The word through dia means " on the account of"

This tells us that His death is the causative basis for being reconciled to God experimentally from our enmity and estrangement that we naturally have with Him !

Also the word reconcile here apokatallasso literally means :

to reconcile COMPLETELY, to change from one state of feeling [enmity] to another, to bring back to a former state of harmony, harmonious relations, this depicts the relation man had in Adam with God after his Creation and prior to his fall and disobedience.

The Death of Christ reinstates, restores that harmony with God but on a Higher Level through Spiritual Life given by Christ through New Birth. This was effected through His Death or was on the account of it, for the sake of it !

So with this in mind, whosoever among us who teaches that #1 Christ's Death alone does not effect the complete Salvation of the Ones He died, or #2 That the Reconciliation of His Death is ONLY ONESIDED Reconciliation, they are liars and antichrist's, and this what we have here proves it !

God's Truth
March 16th, 2014, 04:47 PM
Gt is the one who said B57 lied, then he lied by calling him a slanderer.
I see you have a hard time making righteous judgments.
B57 said I did not love God's Truth. That is a lie, and he slandered me with his lie. It is not that hard to understand.




You cosigned him so you may partake of his judgement also.:thumb:
Just because you say I am guilty of something, it does not make it so. You have a hard time making any kind of righteous judgment. B57 lied about me, and you want me not to say so. Jesus says with the measure you use it will be measured to you. But you do not want me to say so. That is your problem not mines.

I love God's Truth, and he lied and slandered me by saying I did not love God's Truth. He judged himself with the measure he used.

God's Truth
March 16th, 2014, 04:52 PM
B57,

Do you think that Jesus has something against those who chose to be a Pharisee and those who chose to be teachers of the law?

Do you think God hated people and made them choose to become a Pharisee, or teacher of the law?

Do you think that God loved people and made them choose to be prostitutes and tax collectors?

Please answer my questions, then I would like to continue what I am trying to show you.

beloved57
March 17th, 2014, 04:19 AM
B57,

Do you think that Jesus has something against those who chose to be a Pharisee and those who chose to be teachers of the law?

Do you think God hated people and made them choose to become a Pharisee, or teacher of the law?

Do you think that God loved people and made them choose to be prostitutes and tax collectors?

Please answer my questions, then I would like to continue what I am trying to show you.

Please review with me and explain the points I made in posts 120,123,124 they go together. Lets see if you understand them !

Rightglory
March 17th, 2014, 07:58 AM
Another scripture passage that proves that Christ's death reconciles the estranged sinner back to God is here Col 1:20-22

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Notice for emphasis "And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled"

And how was that Paul ? "In the body of his flesh through death"

Folks what can be more plainer than that, that the Apostle here attributes the reconciliation of the ones " that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works,"

He attributes their reconciliation to God to Christ's Death !!!! He writes that it was through Death ! The word through dia means " on the account of"

This tells us that His death is the causative basis for being reconciled to God experimentally from our enmity and estrangement that we naturally have with Him !

Also the word reconcile here apokatallasso literally means :

to reconcile COMPLETELY, to change from one state of feeling [enmity] to another, to bring back to a former state of harmony, harmonious relations, this depicts the relation man had in Adam with God after his Creation and prior to his fall and disobedience.

The Death of Christ reinstates, restores that harmony with God but on a Higher Level through Spiritual Life given by Christ through New Birth. This was effected through His Death or was on the account of it, for the sake of it !

So with this in mind, whosoever among us who teaches that #1 Christ's Death alone does not effect the complete Salvation of the Ones He died, or #2 That the Reconciliation of His Death is ONLY ONESIDED Reconciliation, they are liars and antichrist's, and this what we have here proves it !

If you only understood what you wrote. If you believed exactly what you wrote, then you would be on the right track of understanding the atonement of Christ.

You make the same error with Rom 5:6-10. You insert a limitation upon the text that is not present.
Christ's reconciliation was for all sinners. Every single human being, including the world. Christ gave life to the world. Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:22.

Your view as you state it with its limitation, means that all other human beings are not sinners. What they might be is unknown, but we know they were NOT sinners. As in your view, ONLY sinners were reconciled to God.

But I know you will not even attempt to understand what I have stated.
You will use your ole fall back mantra and show your inability to actually comprehend an argument against your view.

beloved57
March 17th, 2014, 08:01 AM
If you only understood what you wrote. If you believed exactly what you wrote, then you would be on the right track of understanding the atonement of Christ.

You make the same error with Rom 5:6-10. You insert a limitation upon the text that is not present.
Christ's reconciliation was for all sinners. Every single human being, including the world. Christ gave life to the world. Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:22.

Your view as you state it with its limitation, means that all other human beings are not sinners. What they might be is unknown, but we know they were NOT sinners. As in your view, ONLY sinners were reconciled to God.

But I know you will not even attempt to understand what I have stated.
You will use your ole fall back mantra and show your inability to actually comprehend an argument against your view.

Explain to me what I wrote in those three posts !

Posted from the TOL App!

Rightglory
March 17th, 2014, 09:30 AM
Explain to me what I wrote in those three posts !

Posted from the TOL App!

This is the point. You cannot follow a theological argument. I explained to you precisely what the text states, and how you interpret it.

Yet, you ask, explain what i wrote. amazing.

The only reason you ask these silly questions is that you did not comprehend what I stated. You cannot comprehend a statement that might be in opposition to your view, and counter it with some logic and evidence of your view.

Making assertions is not an argument or evidence. This is why you are incapable of holding a discussion of your view.

beloved57
March 17th, 2014, 12:34 PM
rg


This is the point.

Explain to me exactly what I explained in posts :

120,123,124 they go together. Lets see if you understand them !

Rightglory
March 17th, 2014, 01:05 PM
rg



Explain to me exactly what I explained in posts :

120,123,124 they go together. Lets see if you understand them !


Obviously I understand what you stated. I refuted them with scripture that you have consistently avoided. Same here. What is so difficult in understand what someone else states to your statement?

I refuted them using the very same texts you are using. However, I showed a logical scriptural reason why your view is inconsistant with the text and scripture.

So, the ball is in your park. Either support your texts with additional scripture, or refute with scripture what I stated.

beloved57
March 17th, 2014, 01:31 PM
rg


Obviously I understand what you stated.

Its not obvious to me, so please review with me each point the followng posts :

120,123,124 they go together. Lets see if you understand them !

Rightglory
March 17th, 2014, 04:14 PM
rg



Its not obvious to me, so please review with me each point the followng posts :

120,123,124 they go together. Lets see if you understand them !

Oh, I understood that a very long time ago. If I explained them again, you still would not understand.

What I stated was quite simple. Maybe because you are cutting and pasting, you are cutting and pasting someone else's statement, thus you actually do not even understand what it might be saying.

Which is why you insist that someone else actually explain your view to you before you can even reply. I'm not sure that will even help.

beloved57
March 17th, 2014, 04:25 PM
Oh, I understood that a very long time ago. If I explained them again, you still would not understand.

What I stated was quite simple. Maybe because you are cutting and pasting, you are cutting and pasting someone else's statement, thus you actually do not even understand what it might be saying.

Which is why you insist that someone else actually explain your view to you before you can even reply. I'm not sure that will even help.

so please review with me each point the followng posts :

120,123,124 they go together. Lets see if you understand them !

Rightglory
March 17th, 2014, 06:14 PM
so please review with me each point the followng posts :

120,123,124 they go together. Lets see if you understand them !

Here is my response to your post 124.
I can cut and paste just like you.

"If you only understood what you wrote. If you believed exactly what you wrote, then you would be on the right track of understanding the atonement of Christ.

You make the same error with Rom 5:6-10. You insert a limitation upon the text that is not present.
Christ's reconciliation was for all sinners. Every single human being, including the world. Christ gave life to the world. Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:22.

Your view as you state it with its limitation, means that all other human beings are not sinners. What they might be is unknown, but we know they were NOT sinners. As in your view, ONLY sinners were reconciled to God.

But I know you will not even attempt to understand what I have stated.
You will use your ole fall back mantra and show your inability to actually comprehend an argument against your view."

beloved57
March 19th, 2014, 07:08 AM
rg


Here is my response to your post 124.

I asked you to review with me the following posts and the points I made therein:

120,123,124 they go together. Lets see if you understand them !

Now are you going to do what i asked or not ?

Rightglory
March 19th, 2014, 07:33 AM
rg



I asked you to review with me the following posts and the points I made therein:

120,123,124 they go together. Lets see if you understand them !

Now are you going to do what i asked or not ?

I understand your position B57, you don't understand what I am asking which is why you can never reply. If you think I don't understand your position, then you should clarify it by restating it. That is what a discussion is all about.

beloved57
March 19th, 2014, 07:58 AM
rg

I understand your position B57,


Prove it by:

review with me the following posts and the points I made therein:

120,123,124 they go together. Lets see if you understand them !

Now are you going to do what i asked or not ?

Rightglory
March 19th, 2014, 08:13 AM
rg


Prove it by:

review with me the following posts and the points I made therein:

120,123,124 they go together. Lets see if you understand them !

Now are you going to do what i asked or not ?

Your posts 120, 123 are not different from 124.

Here is my response to your post 124, which I have repeated once before.

"If you only understood what you wrote. If you believed exactly what you wrote, then you would be on the right track of understanding the atonement of Christ.

You make the same error with Rom 5:6-10. You insert a limitation upon the text that is not present.
Christ's reconciliation was for all sinners. Every single human being, including the world. Christ gave life to the world. Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:22.

Your view as you state it with its limitation, means that all other human beings are not sinners. What they might be is unknown, but we know they were NOT sinners. As in your view, ONLY sinners were reconciled to God.

But I know you will not even attempt to understand what I have stated.
You will use your ole fall back mantra and show your inability to actually comprehend an argument against your view."

And guess what, you have used your ole fall back mantra to avoid answering it. If you do not understand what I have stated, just ask an question of what you might not understand.

If you think I am incorrect, don't repeat the same statement, but give additional support to what you stated.

beloved57
March 19th, 2014, 09:21 AM
Your posts 120, 123 are not different from 124.

Here is my response to your post 124, which I have repeated once before.

"If you only understood what you wrote. If you believed exactly what you wrote, then you would be on the right track of understanding the atonement of Christ.

You make the same error with Rom 5:6-10. You insert a limitation upon the text that is not present.
Christ's reconciliation was for all sinners. Every single human being, including the world. Christ gave life to the world. Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:22.

Your view as you state it with its limitation, means that all other human beings are not sinners. What they might be is unknown, but we know they were NOT sinners. As in your view, ONLY sinners were reconciled to God.

But I know you will not even attempt to understand what I have stated.
You will use your ole fall back mantra and show your inability to actually comprehend an argument against your view."

And guess what, you have used your ole fall back mantra to avoid answering it. If you do not understand what I have stated, just ask an question of what you might not understand.

If you think I am incorrect, don't repeat the same statement, but give additional support to what you stated.
review with me the following posts and the points I made therein:

120,123,124 they go together. Lets see if you understand them !

Now are you going to do what i asked or not ?

beloved57
March 31st, 2014, 12:21 PM
2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The world here in this scripture cannot possibly mean everyone without exception, or every individual without exception as the False teachers tell us , simply because this world is comprised of all inviduals who do not have any sins imputed or charged to them ! Everyone in this world meets the criteria of being this Man Rom 4:8

Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. And that equates to reconciliation according to 2 Cor 5:19;

But we know this blessing does not apply to all without exception, because by other scripture we are informed of those who do have their sins charged to them Jn 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Which makes it impossible for any of those to be any of that World in 2 Cor 5:19, who had no sins charged or imputed to them, how is it therefore even remotely possible for them to die in their sins ? To be more clear on this matter, the reconciled world in 2 Cor 5:19 is a Saved World because its reconciled Rom 11:11-12,15

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

The reconciling of the world here in Vs 15 is the same as "Salvation is come to the Gentiles" in Vs 11 !

It actually means it [Salvation has come in the application of it] by the Spirit.

Reconciliation by Christ is Twofold, it Reconciled God to man and it reconciles man to God !

So the World in 2 Cor 5:19 is a Saved, reconciled world and 2 Cor 5:20 is a Call to Faith in the Truth of what has already occurred ! Faith cometh by Hearing the Word of Truth, and everyone who has been Reconciled to God, will hear the Truth of it, the Gospel of their Salvation !

So there is no way possible to equate the World in 2 Cor 5:19 with the Unbelievers and them who shall die in their sins Jn 8:24 !

beloved57
April 14th, 2014, 02:42 PM
Rom 5:10-11

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Many today in organized apostate religion, ignorant are they to the Merits of Christ Saving / Atoning Death, but yet would tell us that they do believe in Christ's Saving, Atoning, Reconciling Death, but then will tell us that millions for whom Christ died, reconciled to God, will yet some how die in Unbelief and in their sins Jn 8:24 and spend eternity in separation from God, so much for Christ's Atoning Death wouldn't you say ?

This scripture is very informative, because it makes a declaration, and that is, those reconciled to God by the Death of His Son in the previous verse Rom 5:10 while they were being enemies, they also BY HIM, the prep DIA is used, receive the Reconciliation or Atonement !

The word atonement in the greek is the word katallagē :

I.
exchange
A.
of the business of money changers, exchanging equivalent values


II.
adjustment of a difference, reconciliation, restoration to favour

Its translated reconciliation

Now Christ causes them to receive it, He bestows it upon them, or He quickens them into an vital and living experience of it, its being saved by His Life.

You see, if Christ's death is an atoning death, it must atone both parties to one another. If His Death reconciled God to them, but yet left them unreconciled to God, then His Death was not an Atoning Death, if He only reconciled God to man, and neglected to reconcile man to God, what good is that ? Was His work perfect and complete ? No it would not have been, but He did also reconcile men to God, men who were enemies to Him in their mind by wicked works, He reconciled them to God Col 1:21-22


And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Thats how they received it BY HIM, not by their freewill, but through Christ !

Nanja
April 14th, 2014, 03:46 PM
Rom 5:10-11

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Many today in organized apostate religion, ignorant are they to the Merits of Christ Saving / Atoning Death, but yet would tell us that they do believe in Christ's Saving, Atoning, Reconciling Death, but then will tell us that millions for whom Christ died, reconciled to God, will yet some how die in Unbelief and in their sins Jn 8:24 and spend eternity in separation from God, so much for Christ's Atoning Death wouldn't you say ?

This scripture is very informative, because it makes a declaration, and that is, those reconciled to God by the Death of His Son in the previous verse Rom 5:10 while they were being enemies, they also BY HIM, the prep DIA is used, receive the Reconciliation or Atonement !

The word atonement in the greek is the word katallagē :

I.
exchange
A.
of the business of money changers, exchanging equivalent values


II.
adjustment of a difference, reconciliation, restoration to favour

Its translated reconciliation

Now Christ causes them to receive it, He bestows it upon them, or He quickens them into an vital and living experience of it, its being saved by His Life.

You see, if Christ's death is an atoning death, it must atone both parties to one another. If His Death reconciled God to them, but yet left them unreconciled to God, then His Death was not an Atoning Death, if He only reconciled God to man, and neglected to reconcile man to God, what good is that ? Was His work perfect and complete ? No it would not have been, but He did also reconcile men to God, men who were enemies to Him in their mind by wicked works, He reconciled them to God Col 1:21-22


And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Thats how they received it BY HIM, not by their freewill, but through Christ !


LIE: Today's antichrist, apostate religions, that's most all churches and religious speakers,
teach that Christ died for all mankind.

TRUTH: Christ died only for His elect People, His Sheep. All 100% of them will be saved!
These are the ones chosen in Him before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4 KJV;
the ones who were appointed unto salvation, it's guaranteed they will believe. Acts 13:48 KJV

All the rest will die in their sins, for their only saviour was their own freewill choice;
but they were deceived. 2 Cor. 4:4 KJV

~~~~~

beloved57
April 14th, 2014, 04:03 PM
LIE: Today's antichrist, apostate religions, that's most all churches and religious speakers,
teach that Christ died for all mankind.

TRUTH: Christ died only for His elect People, His Sheep. All 100% of them will be saved!
These are the ones chosen in Him before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4 KJV;
the ones who were appointed unto salvation, it's guaranteed they will believe. Acts 13:48 KJV

All the rest will die in their sins, for their only saviour was their own freewill choice;
but they were deceived. 2 Cor. 4:4 KJV

~~~~~

Amen. That Acts 13:48 passage and the word ordained to Eternal Life, its the greek word tassō and means:

I.to put in order, to station
A.
to place in a certain order, to arrange, to assign a place, to appoint

This has to do with the arrangements in the Everlasting Covenant, David wrote 2 Sam 23:5

Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.

That word ordered is the word `arak and means:

I.to arrange, set or put or lay in order, set in array, prepare, order, ordain, handle, furnish, esteem, equal, direct, compare

Remember David also said something about God shewing His Covenant to those that feared Him Ps 25:14

14 The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

Thats the Everlasting Covenant that was confirmed in Christ Gal 3:17

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

And Eternal Life comes from that Covenant ,a Promise to Christ and His Seed Titus 1:2

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

That hope of Eternal Life is the same as that here Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

May the Lord bless you !

Nanja
April 14th, 2014, 04:59 PM
Amen. That Acts 13:48 passage and the word ordained to Eternal Life, its the greek word tassō and means:

I.to put in order, to station
A.
to place in a certain order, to arrange, to assign a place, to appoint

This has to do with the arrangements in the Everlasting Covenant, David wrote 2 Sam 23:5

Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.

That word ordered is the word `arak and means:

I.to arrange, set or put or lay in order, set in array, prepare, order, ordain, handle, furnish, esteem, equal, direct, compare

Remember David also said something about God shewing His Covenant to those that feared Him Ps 25:14

14 The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

Thats the Everlasting Covenant that was confirmed in Christ Gal 3:17

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

And Eternal Life comes from that Covenant ,a Promise to Christ and His Seed Titus 1:2

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

That hope of Eternal Life is the same as that here Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

May the Lord bless you !


Amen to all you posted.

May our Lord bless you richly!

~~~~~

beloved57
April 27th, 2014, 02:37 PM
Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Yes Paul is speaking as a Believer to other believers, but it is instructive as to what he writes accordingly, he writes that they were or had been reconciled to God, while they were enemies, unbelievers, by His Son's Death !

How can and are sinners, who by nature, and while being active enemies to God, hating Him and at enmity with Him in their minds by wicked works Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

How could they nevertheless have been at that time reconciled to a Holy God ?

The scripture tells us, it was by the Death of His Son, Rom 5:10, which means His Death alone, while they were being enemies, had legally removed their guilt before God's Law and Justice, their slate had been wiped clean,and except for that men, cannot be legally reconciled to God and be guilt and condemnation free !

Now this applies only to believers , when they were not yet believers !

All others, while unbelievers and enemies are yet condemned already Jn 3:18 and under God's wrath without hope of ever seeing life Jn 3:36 !

Rightglory
April 27th, 2014, 02:45 PM
Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Yes Paul is speaking as a Believer to other believers, but it is instructive as to what he writes accordingly, he writes that they were or had been reconciled to God, while they were enemies, unbelievers, by His Son's Death !

How can and are sinners, who by nature, and while being active enemies to God, hating Him and at enmity with Him in their minds by wicked works Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

How could they nevertheless have been at that time reconciled to a Holy God ?

The scripture tells us, it was by the Death of His Son, Rom 5:10, which means His Death alone, while they were being enemies, had legally removed their guilt before God's Law and Justice, their slate had been wiped clean,and except for that men, cannot be legally reconciled to God and be guilt and condemnation free !

Now this applies only to believers , when they were not yet believers !

All others, while unbelievers and enemies are yet condemned already Jn 3:18 and under God's wrath without hope of ever seeing life Jn 3:36 !

You need to show from scripture, that ALL SINNERS was ONLY in reference to future believers.
If so, does this mean that all other peoples are NOT sinners and do not need to be reconciled to God?

Also, where does it say that the word, reconcile to God means "not guilty"? Either by scriptural definition or another text or context, or by dictionary, or better a biblical dictionary.

beloved57
April 27th, 2014, 02:51 PM
rg


You need to show from scripture, that ALL SINNERS was ONLY in reference to future believers.


Ok, Now I am glad you responded. Please review the post with me, explain to me the logic I used in making the post, each point ! Post 147 !

Rightglory
April 27th, 2014, 02:57 PM
rg




Ok, Now I am glad you responded. Please review the post with me, explain to me the logic I used in making the post, each point ! Post 147 !

I did, I even asked questions. Can you answer them. Do you understand the questions?

beloved57
April 27th, 2014, 02:59 PM
I did, I even asked questions. Can you answer them. Do you understand the questions?

Ok, Now I am glad you responded. Please review the post with me, explain to me the logic I used in making the post, each point ! Post 147 !

Rightglory
April 27th, 2014, 03:21 PM
Ok, Now I am glad you responded. Please review the post with me, explain to me the logic I used in making the post, each point ! Post 147 !

Hey, you forgot to turn your broken record off.
I already responded.
Do you not understand my questions?

beloved57
April 27th, 2014, 04:36 PM
Hey, you forgot to turn your broken record off.
I already responded.
Do you not understand my questions?

Ok, Now I am glad you responded. Please review the post with me, explain to me the logic I used in making the post, each point ! Post 147 !

Rightglory
April 27th, 2014, 05:52 PM
Ok, Now I am glad you responded. Please review the post with me, explain to me the logic I used in making the post, each point ! Post 147 !

Obviously you again have the same problem, Cannot understand what someone else says, nor can support your own assertions.

I must simply assume you have no answers for my questions.

beloved57
April 28th, 2014, 02:06 AM
Obviously you again have the same problem, Cannot understand what someone else says, nor can support your own assertions.

I must simply assume you have no answers for my questions.



Ok, Now I am glad you responded. Please review the post with me, explain to me the logic I used in making the post, each point ! Post 147 !


Posted from the TOL App!

beloved57
June 18th, 2014, 11:59 AM
All for whom Christ died, by His death alone, even while they were enemies, unbelievers, by nature children of wrath, they even then were by His death reconciled to God Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies[unbelievers],[B] we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now, being reconciled to God while enemies, they had the promise of being saved by His Life.

Also they have another promise to look forward to Col 1:21-22

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death[Rom 5:10], to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

All those Christ's death alone reconciled to God while they were enemies, they shall all be by that be presented Holy, and Unblameable, and unreprovable in His sight !

If this does not happen to all for whom He died, then His death was an utter failure !

beloved57
September 16th, 2014, 06:31 AM
Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The antichrist folks attempt to distort this blessed Truth of this verse, however they shall be proven liars and inconsistent everytime. The Truths here are most gracious, and cannot be received by the natural mind of man, to give credence to 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

This verse condemns all who falsely believes that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception, the only way that could be true according to the Truth in this verse, one would have to become an Universalist, which is also a condemned belief !

Now heres how and why. Paul here is writing to believers, however he states of them, including himself, that even while they were enemies, unbelievers, they were reconciled to God by the death of His Son ! Now to be reconciled to God is to be saved from the penalty of your sins, and to be received into the favor of God. Its the word katallassō and means:

I.to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
A.
to reconcile (those who are at variance)

B.
return to favour with, be reconciled to one

C.
to receive one into favour

They are not now in a condemned state before God, but yet they are still enemies !

Now, what is said / promised of those who are reconciled while yet being enemies according to this verse : Notice Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled [while enemies], we shall be saved by his life.

Understand, those already reconciled while being enemies, much more being reconciled, the Promise to them is that they shall be saved by His Life !

There it is, if Christ died for all without exception, and they were reconciled, then the promise of scripture is that they shall be [ A Divine Promise] saved by His Life !

Now, does the bible teach anywhere that all without exception shall be saved by Christ's Life ? The answer is absolutely no !

beloved57
September 16th, 2014, 06:54 AM
Now what exactly is that which they shall be saved from if they are already, by being reconciled, saved from the penalty of their sins ? They shall be saved by His Life from being enemies, for remember they are alreay saved from the penalty of their sins by Christ's death, but still remaining enemies , this they shall be saved from as well. Here is a verse of scripture that is instructive here Lk 1:71-74

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

As unbelievers and enemies we are being held bondage to the enemy of our soul the devil, for it is he that holds us in unbelief the prison, so that we may not believe and be saved as Per Lk 8:12

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Yes, the devil is the Strong man that binds us in a state of nature, thats why it is written Matt 12:29

29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

This means that by nature we are the devils goods, and his ownership is known by our enmity and disobedience and unbelief against God !

We need to be delivered from this strong man the devil, saved from him as implied i Lk 1:71,74,75

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

While we are in unbelief we are in the hand of our enemie the devil. Now, to those who are reconciled to God by His Sons death, while they are enemies, hence being so reconciled, they shall be saved fromm all their Spiritual enemies by His Life, so that they can serve without fear

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

So if we falsely teach that Christ died for all without exception, then the consequences of that if we are consistent with the Truth of Rom 5:10 will be Lk 1:74-75

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

beloved57
September 17th, 2014, 02:28 AM
Rom 5:10-11

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Those Christ died for, they did absolutely nothing to receive reconciliation with God, in fact, they by His death alone had been reconciled to Him even while they were enemies / unbelievers Rom 5:10 ! Christ's death did not just make reconciliation possible, and not its up to the sinners He died for to accept it, or repent, or even believe, so that it becomes a fact, no, the reconciliation took place even while they were enemies. When Christ was raised from the dead as their Head, He was reconciled to God, for because of their sins being imputed to Him, He experienced the Father forsaking Him Matt 27:46

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

However upon Christ's resurrection from the dead, it was a evidence that that God had been reconciled to Him and not only Him, but those whom sins He died for, and so by Him alone those He died for receive the reconciliation, it was applied to them !

Jerry Shugart
September 17th, 2014, 10:36 AM
Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

All for whom Christ died, have been reconciled to God, by His death alone, not by their obedience, not by their faith, not by their repentance, but even while they were being enemies, unbelievers, children of wrath as others BY NATURE, now if this be the case, their being reconciled, they cannot be under condemnation and wrath as others Jn 3:18,36 even while being unbelievers !

You fail to understand that the world was reconciled to God and that reconciliation is a two way street:


"Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God" (2 Cor.5:18-20).

beloved57
September 17th, 2014, 11:04 AM
You fail to understand that the world was reconciled to God and that reconciliation is a two way street:


"Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God" (2 Cor.5:18-20).

All without exception were not reconciled to God by the death of Christ while they're enemies and unbelievers per Rom 5:10 because many as enemies and unbelievers are condemned already and under God's wrath John 3:18,36 !

Grosnick Marowbe
September 17th, 2014, 11:15 AM
B57, you still here? Practically nobody agrees with anything you have
to say! And, you're annoying as well! Of course, you already knew that!

Jerry Shugart
September 17th, 2014, 11:44 AM
All without exception were not reconciled to God by the death of Christ while they're enemies and unbelievers per Rom 5:10 because many as enemies and unbelievers are condemned already and under God's wrath John 3:18,36 !

Paul's words speak of the reconciliation of the WORLD:


"Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God" (2 Cor.5:18-20).

Anyone is condemned when he does not believe in the Lord Jesus but that condemnation is not necessarily permanent. If a person changes him mind at a later time and believes the gospel then he will not be condemned.

The Lord Jesus did not come to judge men but to save them (Jn.12:47). If a person remains in unbelief then he will be judged in the last day (Jn.12:48).

Jerry Shugart
September 17th, 2014, 11:54 AM
B57, you still here? Practically nobody agrees with anything you have
to say! And, you're annoying as well! Of course, you already knew that!

He is just doing his duty as a good Calvinist, staying around in order to change the word "world" into the "world of the elect" whenever the occasion arrives.

beloved57
September 17th, 2014, 11:58 AM
jerry


Paul's words speak of the reconciliation of the WORLD:

Thats the elect world !


Anyone is condemned when he does not believe in the Lord Jesus

Thats a invalid and false statement. Those Christ died for are not condemnd as unbelievers, they are said to be reconciled to God while enemies Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So your statement is false and contradicts the Truth !

God's Truth
September 17th, 2014, 11:59 AM
Reconciled while enemies is about the GENTILES.

Paul is explaining that Jesus did not just die for the Jews, the Jews who performed the commanded various laws and regulations. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, even for the sins of the enemies of God. The Gentiles were the enemies.

Colossians 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.

Reconciled while enemies is about the GENTILES not having to become a Jew first and get CIRCUMCISED.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

beloved57
September 17th, 2014, 12:02 PM
He is just doing his duty as a good Calvinist, staying around in order to change the word "world" into the "world of the elect" whenever the occasion arrives.

The word world means:

any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort

Jerry Shugart
September 17th, 2014, 02:36 PM
Reconciled while enemies is about the GENTILES.


"And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven" (Col.1:20).

Not just "some" things but instead "all" things.

God's Truth
September 17th, 2014, 03:02 PM
"And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven" (Col.1:20).

Not just "some" things but instead "all" things.

That scripture does not nullify the scriptures that say the GENTILES were enemies because of the UNCIRCUMCISION of their flesh.

God has bound everyone over to disobedience.

Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Again, that does NOT take away from the scriptures that say the Gentiles were enemies on account of their not obeying God and circumcising their flesh.

Jerry Shugart
September 17th, 2014, 03:17 PM
That scripture does not nullify the scriptures that say the GENTILES were enemies because of the UNCIRCUMCISION of their flesh.

When Paul uses the phrase "all things" he is not limiting the reconciliation to the Gentiles:


"And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven" (Col.1:20).

The world was reconciled to God when the Lord Jesus tasted death for every man:


"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Heb.2:9).

The world was reconciled to God by the Lord Jesus, who is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the whole world:


"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world" (1 Jn.2:2).

God's Truth
September 17th, 2014, 03:19 PM
When Paul uses the phrase "all things" he is not limiting the reconciliation to the Gentiles:


"And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven" (Col.1:20).

The world was reconciled to God when the Lord Jesus tasted death for every man:


"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Heb.2:9).

The world was reconciled to God by the Lord Jesus, who is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the whole world:


"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world" (1 Jn.2:2).

Paul is explaining WHY the Gentiles did not have to get circumcised when they were enemies of God.

Jerry Shugart
September 17th, 2014, 03:20 PM
The word world means:

any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort

Here is what John Calvin wrote in his commentary on John 3:16:

In his commentary on John 3:16 John Calvin says that the whole world has been reconciled to God:


"He has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term world which He formerly used [God so loved the world]; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet He shows Himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when He invites all men without exception [not merely 'without distinction'] to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life" (John Calvin, Commentary at John 3:16).

Jerry Shugart
September 17th, 2014, 03:24 PM
Paul is explaining WHY the Gentiles did not have to get circumcised when they were enemies of God.

So when Paul used the words "all things" he really meant only the Gentiles? And when he used the word "world" he really meant only Gentiles?

I see nothing in the context of the two verse which even hints that only Gentiles were spoken of.

God's Truth
September 17th, 2014, 03:38 PM
So when Paul used the words "all things" he really meant only the Gentiles? And when he used the word "world" he really meant only Gentiles?

I see nothing in the context of the two verse which even hints that only Gentiles were spoken of.

Paul says they were reconciled to God when they were uncircumcised in the flesh.

Just think, the Jews had to be circumcised in the flesh. The Jews had the ceremonial laws to keep them clean after they sinned...the Gentiles were dead in their sins, not having the laws to clean themselves.

How is it then that God would save them, and allow an unclean person to be the temple of the living God? Paul tells us that it is by faith in Jesus' blood that we are washed clean, even while we are still enemies, in the uncircumcision of our flesh.

beloved57
September 17th, 2014, 04:27 PM
Reconciled while enemies is about the GENTILES.

Paul is explaining that Jesus did not just die for the Jews, the Jews who performed the commanded various laws and regulations. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, even for the sins of the enemies of God. The Gentiles were the enemies.

Colossians 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.

Reconciled while enemies is about the GENTILES not having to become a Jew first and get CIRCUMCISED.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,


Invalid comments !

beloved57
September 17th, 2014, 04:29 PM
When Paul uses the phrase "all things" he is not limiting the reconciliation to the Gentiles:


"And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven" (Col.1:20).

The world was reconciled to God when the Lord Jesus tasted death for every man:


"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Heb.2:9).

The world was reconciled to God by the Lord Jesus, who is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the whole world:


"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world" (1 Jn.2:2).

The world of Israel or the Election was reconciled to God, not all men without exception, because many are under God's condemnation and wrath as enemies John 3:18,36 !

beloved57
September 21st, 2014, 03:08 PM
Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

When the Apostle writes to believers here these words, He is teaching by and large what it means to be saved by Grace . Grace means the favor of God, and all for whom Christ died, even while they are enemies, and before they believe, and while yet being disobedient, they are saved into a state of reconciliation and Favor , which is Grace, with God, in fact they stand in a state of Grace Rom 5:2

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

The word stand here , the greek word its in the perfect tense, and its an established and fixed station whereby we stand safe, and this is before Faith !

We are in this fixed state of Grace while unbelievers because while unbelievers we have been reconciled to God by Christ's Death, and that word reconciled katallassō means:

B.
return to favour with, be reconciled to one

C.
to receive one into favour or Grace

God for Christ's sake alone, has received into Favor, a state of Grace, while those He died for are enemies, unbelievers and disobedient ! Now thats what it means to be saved by Grace, as by the Gift of God. See this way Grace the more shines forth, for God to have us in His Divine Favor, once and for all, while we are disobedient sinners and the ungodly, this magnifies the Grace of God because we did nothing to deserve it, but at the same time we are doing everything and more to forfeit it.

beloved57
September 21st, 2014, 03:54 PM
The fact is, its not Salvation by Grace Grace or Justification by Grace unless we are by the Grace of the Death of Christ alone Heb 2:9, saved and or Justified before God while we are still disobedient, ungodly, and unbelievers, its only then can it be said when we do come to believe by the Power of the Holy Ghost, that we believed on Him that Justifieth the Ungodly Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

So if we were anything but in a active state of ungodliness, and disobedience and unbelief when Christ's death alone reconciled us into the state of Divine Favor and Grace, we immediately have fallen from Grace, and any scripture testimony of being saved by Grace, and can only be judged as one who professes Salvation and or Justification by their works, which is condemned by the Word of God !

beloved57
September 30th, 2014, 11:12 AM
When the Apostle writes to Believers @ Rome these words Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

He is teaching by and large what it means to be saved by Grace . Grace is the favor of God, and all for whom He died, Even While They Are Enemies, before they believe, repent or act any Gospel Obedience, and while they are actively disobedient, If Christ died for them, they are saved and received into the Favor of God ! The word for reconciled in Rom 5:10 is the greek word katallassō and means:

I.to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
A.
to reconcile (those who are at variance)

B.
return to favour with, be reconciled to one

C.
to receive one into favour

And thats what Grace is, God's Favor, and in His Favor is Life Ps 30:5

For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.

And that Life is Salvation ! It's Life that Lasts a Lifetime here and ushers them into Life Eternal !

beloved57
September 30th, 2014, 11:34 AM
Now that is what it means to be saved by Grace, as by the Gift of God. Its to be in a state of Favor and Blessing and Grace and Peace with God EVEN while we are at the same time being sinners, ungodly and disobedient and unbelievers,that is how God's Grace is Magnified the More, when its Saving Merit is applied when we have donr nothing to deserve it, and while we are doing everthing in our power to forfeit it.

Listen the fact is, its not never Salvationby Grace, or Justification by Grace unless we are by the Death of Christ alone, Saved, and or Justified before God, while we are yet still being disobedient, and ungodly, and unbelievers, then and only then can it be truthfully be said that we believed on Him that Justifieth the Ungodly Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

This means we were Justified/ reconciled to God, while being Ungodly. Now if we were anything but ungodly, disobedient sinners when Christ's Death as a Free Gift Gift, Justified us before God or Reconciled us to God, then we immediately forfeit any claims of being Saved and or Justified by Grace, we can only be Judged as one who makes a profession of Salvation or Justification by Grace, but in actuality you believe in Justification by your works !

Right Divider
September 30th, 2014, 11:46 AM
I'm just trying to find the word "impute" anywhere in the Scriptures! (sorry, couldn't resist).

If I'm understanding the gist of this thread, I think of where John dedicated his writing of the revelation of Yeshua "to him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father -- to him be glory and power for ever and ever!" This same revelation clearly states that overcoming the evil of the end times and the beast "calls for the patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus." Does Yeshua's own revelation to John contradict His own sacrifice? No, of course not, yet there it is plain as the nose on one's face, a twofold requirement for reconciliation and the ability to overcome. The freedom we have in His blood does not negate the necessity for obedience and faithfulness.

Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

Rom 4:20-25 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; (21) And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. (22) And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. (23) Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; (24) But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; (25) Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Was it that hard to find these?

glorydaz
September 30th, 2014, 11:58 AM
Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

Rom 4:20-25 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; (21) And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. (22) And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. (23) Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; (24) But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; (25) Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Was it that hard to find these?

It must be that pesky (past tense) "ed", or the lack of available translations or something. :idunno:

Romans 4:8
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

beloved57
October 2nd, 2014, 07:38 AM
Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

What the false teachers are ignorant of, with their using this verse to teach that Christ reconciled all humanity to Himself through the Death of Christ, that they are also stating another lie, which is all without exception shall be saved by Christ's Life, simply because that is the Promise to them that were reconciled to God by His Death while they were enemies !

Now with that stated, who is it in this verse that it is promised they shall be saved by Christ's Life ? And what does this mean ? To answer the first question, Its all whom were reconciled to God, by Christ's Death, while being enemies and unbelievers !

The Promise to them is "being reconciled[while enemies], we shall be saved by his life."

The word shall puts this statement in the indicative mood which means:


The indicative mood is a simple statement of fact. If an action really occurs or has occurred or will occur, it will be rendered in the indicative mood.http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rom&c=5&t=KJV#s=t_conc_1051010

Now this is True because His Life spoken of here Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

His Life is also their Life, for it would be just as appropriate for it to read, Tey shall be saved by their Life, since His Life is theirs, He rose with their Life in Him,as their Head; Paul wrote Col 3:4

When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

The Our here is His Body the Church, for whom He is the Head of Col 1:18

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

He was the Head of the Body the Church as the Firstborn from the dead, speaking of His Resurrection and the Life Rom 5:10 refers to !

Each Member of His Body was raised together with Him, and by virtue of that, each member of His Body shall be saved by His ? Their Life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

beloved57
October 13th, 2014, 09:15 AM
Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now listen, those who were reconciled / saved by His Death shall also be saved by His Life !

False Teachers hijack this verse to say that the Death of Christ doesn't save anyone, but that His Life does !

But what these filthy blasphemers don't know is that this verse does not say that no one is saved by Christ's death, simply because that would be a lie, in fact they are saved from by His death from the penalty of sin which is Death Rom 6:23 and because of that, His death for them abolishing Death 2 Tim 1:10

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

And sine they have no more penalty of sin charged against them, which caused death, then Justice demands that they now be saved out of death by Christ's Life.

That Resurrection Life of Christ is theirs as He is their Head, and as Their Head and Saviour He must communicate to them Resurrection Life to raise them from the Spiritually Dead, this proves His Headship of them and His being their Saviour. When this occurs in the life of anyone Christ died for 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Or Eph 2:4-6

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Thats saved there in Vs 5 is what Paul meant in Rom 5:10 of the reconciled while they were enemies ! Because of reconciliation which indicates free from the charges of sin imputed 2 Cor 5:19, they therefore must be saved from Spiritual Death by His Life Giving Spirit 1 Cor 15:45 ; Eph 2:5 !

This Life giving was made possible because His Death saved them from the Penalty of sin which incurs death, which their death for them satisfied God's Law and Justice, so now they must be according to Justice saved by Christ's Resurrected Life, quickening them from the Spiritually dead !

beloved57
March 22nd, 2015, 01:32 AM
Understand something, We know that Christ did not die for all mankind individually without exception, if we believe the Truth about His Death, in how it secures and ensures that those He died for shall be saved by His Life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now lets consider here that its an stated fact that those Christ died for, even while they were enemies, that is to say unbelievers, even then they were reconciled to God; and the promise to them now reconciled to God while enemies, by His Death is " THEY SHALL BE SAVED BY HIS LIFE" !

So now if He reconciled all mankind without exception to God while they were enemies and unbelievers by His Death [supposing He died for them] and yet these same enemies thus reconciled by His death are not SAVED BY HIS LIFE AS PROMISED then the scripture has been proved to be false and a lie.

The only way for it not to be proved false is if all humanity without exception shall eventually be saved by His Life, which equates to universalism, another false teaching of the ungodly, or that Christ's Death was Limited to only the saved, which is limited atonement, or limited reconciliation !

So which do you believe today ? Let us examine our hearts before God and His Truth ! If you believe Christ died for all humanity without exception and reconciled them to God while enemies as Per Rom 5:10 then you either believe in Universal-ism or you believe that the scriptures teach limited atonement, you cant straddle the fence !

beloved57
April 29th, 2015, 03:35 PM
Christ's death in reconciliation has a Two Fold purpose, it was to reconcile God to man and man to God! If it doesn't do this, it was a failure to Gods purpose , but it did Reconcile both sides as scripture teaches !

beloved57
June 3rd, 2015, 11:20 PM
Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

What does being reconciled to God mean ? Yes even when unbelievers and enemies !

It means that even as enemies and unbelievers God has no sins to charge against them, because all their sins have been put away by the Lord Jesus Christ.

These also God in Justice will not and cannot deal in wrath towards them for their sins as He will with others in a state of disobedience Eph 5:3-6

3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things[In Vs 3-5] cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

This wrath of God here does include the second death Rev 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Notice a similar list of sins are here mentioned like those in Eph 5:3-5 !

I believe its the Wrath to come 1 Thess 1:10

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

And its the wrath spoken of here 1 Thess 5:9

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Now all whom Christ by His death reconciled to God, they were not appointed to wrath, and that even while enemies and unbelievers, even then they are saved from the Wrath to come through Him Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Through Him here means through His Death ! In fact the word through here in Vs 9 is the same word BY in Vs 10:

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Its the prep dia, which means "on account of" and so we were saved from wrath and reconciled to God on account of His Death, because of it, and no other cause can be considered without turning into idolatry !

beloved57
June 7th, 2015, 02:44 PM
Col 1:20

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Did you know that all for whom Christ died, they have Peace with God before Faith ? Yes they have it[Peace with God] even though by nature they are enemies in their minds against Him and in Unbelief, because this Peace they have with God is established by the Blood of Christ, or by His Death, and its a True fact even while they are being enemies, hating Him and His Son the Lord Jesus Christ.

This Peace they have as enemies and unbelievers is true also because again as such they have been reconciled to God ! How was it they were reconciled to God ? It was not by their Faith, but by His Death Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Hence as reconciled enemies they have Peace with God, they are established in His Favor through the Lord Jesus Christ !

beloved57
June 8th, 2015, 12:16 AM
Now the word peace in Col 1:20

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Its the greek word eirénopoieó: I make peace, reconcile.

to make peace, establish harmony:

Now Christ by His death establshed Peace and Harmony, reconciliation between the Parties of Men and God, the relationship was mended on both sides !

Now one may ask how could this be, when those Christ died for are born into this world as sinners and enemies like others are See Rom 5:10 ! They are by nature aliented from the Life of God ! But heres how it was done. When Christ rose from the dead, after having died for the sins of God's Sheep, sins that had been charged to Him, He rose reconciled to God on their behalf, their sins having been put away, purged away Heb 1:3

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Now God was reconciled to Christ and the Sheep in Him, having been alienated from Him in Divine Justice because of their sins; Christ for sins imputed was forsaken of God the Righteous Judge Matt 27:46

46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? See also Ps 22:1 !

You see when God the Father was executing His fierce wrath upon the Son Shepherd and Surety for the sins of His People , He was as the Prohet wrote:

Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity:

And at this time God was not at Peace with His Son for Justice sake, He abandoned Him to the curse and condemnation for the iniquities of His Chosen, He turned away from, was alienated from Him, because of the blackness of sins charged upon Him !

But yet after He exhausted His Justice, and to give evidence that He has been exonerated, God raised Him from the Dead as the God of Peace Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace/reconciled, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

The word for peace here means:

eirḗnē (from eirō, "to join, tie together into a whole") – properly, wholeness, i.e. when all essential parts are joined together; peace (God's gift of wholeness).

Christ was raised from the Dead, reconciled to God, and God to Him, but not for His sake, but for the sake of the People He died for, and put away their sins. God now sees all for whom He died as being in Harmony with Him, because Christ their Head is. Its just like with Adam, before the fall of the elect in him, they in adam were in harmony and friendship with God ! The harmony between both Parties has been restored by Christ blood establishing Peace, and this is the Message of Peace in the Gospel Rom 10:15

And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Not a possibility of Peace if they do this or that, but Peace in that they have in Christ, been reconciled to God, and God to them !

beloved57
June 13th, 2015, 03:56 AM
2 Cor 5:18

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

According to this scripture, how did God reconcile to Himself ? Was it by their faith or repentance ? Was it by their obedience ? Does it say it was by their own freewill ? No, it was none of that which they did, no act of theirs, but He did it by Jesus Christ, meaning by His Death on the Cross 1 Pet 2:24-25

24[B] Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned or reconciled unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

His death, and all it effected, set in motion reconciled those He died for back to God, the word reconciled in 2 Cor 5:18 is the greek word katallasoo , which means : I change, exchange, reconcile, change as when Two parties reconcile together, like marriage partners who had been estranged and at odds 1 Cor 7:11

11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

The word also denotes a change from enmity to friendship ! Not Gods enmity towards them, but their enmity towards God. By nature those whom Christ died for and reconciled to God were themselves enemies in their minds towards God, for so says the scriptures Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

All men by nature are with a carnal mind, thats natural for men 1 Cor 3:3

For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he[Jesus Christ] reconciled

Now understand, this enmity we have by nature against God is overcome by the effects of Christ's death, causing us to come into a friendship/ fellowship in our hearts and affections towards God and the things of God, and of course our Faith to come to Him in a pleasing manner Heb 11:6 arises out what Jesus Christ by His work of the Cross effected ! Thats what Paul taught in 2 Cor 5:18 and Col 1:21 !

Now in 2 Cor 5:18 who are the Us ? 2 Cor 5:18

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Its all them He reconciled to God while they were being enemies Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The Us of 2 Cor 5:18 is consistent with the we of Rom 5:10, in fact that word reconciled is the same in both places !

And folks ultimately thats who Christ died for, those who by Him come to Faith/ Friendship and Fellowship experimentally with God Triune !

BTW, thats who the world is in 2 Cor 5:19, a world of men and women of all nations, whose natural enmity against God has been overcome, and they be experimentally brought into the Fellowship/Friendship with God again through Jesus Christ, to whom be all the Glory !

whitestone
June 13th, 2015, 04:59 AM
who is the enemy,who was reconciled while still an enemy?,,,
Was there anyone in scripture who "hated Jesus and his followers" and set out to kill them?(see Acts 9),
Was there a man who was "fully unrepentant" in his position of Jesus and his followers and God appeared to him "while he was an enemy"? (see Acts 9)

If it is scriptural that someone who detest Jesus,stalks down his followers to kill them,holds the coats of the killers of Christians while they kill them and Christ appears to him "WHILE HE IS AN ENEMY",,,well then of a truth we are reconciled "while still enemy's",,,see acts 9 Paul hated Jesus,was not repenting of it,ect.ect.,,,

Nanja
June 13th, 2015, 08:10 AM
2 Cor 5:18

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

According to this scripture, how did God reconcile to Himself ? Was it by their faith or repentance ? Was it by their obedience ? Does it say it was by their own freewill ? No, it was none of that which they did, no act of theirs, but He did it by Jesus Christ, meaning by His Death on the Cross 1 Pet 2:24-25

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned or reconciled unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

His death, and all it effected, set in motion reconciled those He died for back to God, the word reconciled in 2 Cor 5:18 is the greek word katallasoo , which means : I change, exchange, reconcile, change as when Two parties reconcile together, like marriage partners who had been estranged and at odds 1 Cor 7:11

11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

The word also denotes a change from enmity to friendship ! Not Gods enmity towards them, but their enmity towards God. By nature those whom Christ died for and reconciled to God were themselves enemies in their minds towards God, for so says the scriptures Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

All men by nature are with a carnal mind, thats natural for men 1 Cor 3:3

For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he[Jesus Christ] reconciled

Now understand, this enmity we have by nature against God is overcome by the effects of Christ's death, causing us to come into a friendship/ fellowship in our hearts and affections towards God and the things of God, and of course our Faith to come to Him in a pleasing manner Heb 11:6 arises out what Jesus Christ by His work of the Cross effected ! Thats what Paul taught in 2 Cor 5:18 and Col 1:21 !

Now in 2 Cor 5:18 who are the Us ? 2 Cor 5:18

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Its all them He reconciled to God while they were being enemies Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The Us of 2 Cor 5:18 is consistent with the we of Rom 5:10, in fact that word reconciled is the same in both places !

And folks ultimately thats who Christ died for, those who [B]by Him come to Faith/ Friendship and Fellowship experimentally with God Triune !

BTW, thats who the world is in 2 Cor 5:19, a world of men and women of all nations, whose natural enmity against God has been overcome, and they be experimentally brought into the Fellowship/Friendship with God again through Jesus Christ, to whom be all the Glory !


Amen!

Thanking God for you, and this very edifying study!

~~~~~

beloved57
June 13th, 2015, 08:26 AM
Amen!

Thanking God for you, and this very edifying study!

~~~~~

Thanks to God we're able to rejoice together in that Truth!

Nanja
June 13th, 2015, 10:47 AM
Thanks to God we're able to rejoice together in that Truth!


Yes indeed, and truly a great blessing from Him! ☺

~~~~~

beloved57
July 31st, 2015, 06:23 AM
Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Reconciled to God, by Christs death, while being Enemies, even enemies in our ninds by wicked works Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

Thats right, even while being alienated, estranged from God by nature and in nature, those Christ died for were reconciled to God by His death.

Now this is a Truth about Grace that the natural man cannot and will not receive, being void of the Spirit of God, it is foolishness to him, even a great stumblingblock !

You see it does mean, while those for whom Christ died are in themselves rebellious against God, they have been nevertheless been reconciled or received into Gods Favor/Grace, which implies they have no sin, or iniquities, trespasses charged against them before God, for all these must be taken away, in order for God to receive us into His Favor/Reconcilition !

The word reconciled in Rom 5:10 is the greek word katallassō and means:


to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
to reconcile (those who are at variance)
return to favour with, be reconciled to one
to receive one into favour
So we know that their sins , iniquties have been removed because they cause separation from God as stated here Isa 59:2

But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Christ's death does away with that separation and reconciles God to them into His Favor and Blessing ! This separation is done away with for them in the facr of Jesus Christ their Surety !

Both Parties are reconciled, God to them, they to God by the Perfect Law obedience they have imputed to them through Christ's Obedience Rom 5:19, and all this is True while they themselves are in a state of nature children of wrath as others Eph 2:3

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. See Col 1:21 !

God's Truth
July 31st, 2015, 06:55 AM
Reconciled while enemies is about the GENTILES.

Paul is explaining that Jesus did not just die for the Jews, the Jews who performed the commanded various laws and regulations. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, even for the sins of the enemies of God. The Gentiles were the enemies.

Colossians 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.

Reconciled while enemies is about the GENTILES not having to become a Jew first and get CIRCUMCISED.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,


The GENTILES WERE ENEMIES BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT CIRCUMCISED IN THE FLESH.

Jesus still saved them WHILE THEY WERE UNCIRCUMCISED ENEMIES.

beloved57
July 31st, 2015, 09:04 AM
Reconciled while enemies is about the GENTILES.

Paul is explaining that Jesus did not just die for the Jews, the Jews who performed the commanded various laws and regulations. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, even for the sins of the enemies of God. The Gentiles were the enemies.

Colossians 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.

Reconciled while enemies is about the GENTILES not having to become a Jew first and get CIRCUMCISED.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,


The GENTILES WERE ENEMIES BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT CIRCUMCISED IN THE FLESH.

Jesus still saved them WHILE THEY WERE UNCIRCUMCISED ENEMIES.

I said that the truth here can't be received by the natural man!

God's Truth
July 31st, 2015, 01:22 PM
I said that the truth here can't be received by the natural man!

I am not a natural man. I live through the Spirit of Jesus.

oatmeal
July 31st, 2015, 05:08 PM
Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


All for whom Christ died, have been reconciled to God, by His death alone, not by their obedience, not by their faith, not by their repentance, but even while they were being enemies, unbelievers, children of wrath as others BY NATURE, now if this be the case, their being reconciled, they cannot be under condemnation and wrath as others Jn 3:18,36 even while being unbelievers !

You see, they cannot be both condemned and under wrath as enemies and reconciled to God as enemies at the same time !

True

beloved57
August 1st, 2015, 06:34 AM
True

Do you understand that which you are saying true to ?

oatmeal
August 1st, 2015, 06:35 AM
Do you understand that which you are saying true to ?

Romans 5:1,9

Ephesians 1:3-4 etc., etc., etc.......

beloved57
August 17th, 2015, 05:35 AM
Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This is one scripture with the Truth it contains, it assures us that Christ did not die for the sins of all mankind, unless all mankind shall be saved by His Life ! And we know the bible does not teach that all mankind without exception shall be saved by the Life of Christ !

However we know from this scripture #1 Those Christ died for were, while yet being enemies/unbelievers, reconciled to God ! How ? By the Death of His Son, thats how !

Now this being reconciled to God by His Sons death denotes forgiveness of sins, and heres why !

The word reconciled here katallassō and its the same word Paul uses in 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

And this reconciliation consists of non imputation of their sins, which is forgiveness of sins according to scripture Ps 32:1-2

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


So those in the world of 2 Cor 5:19, because of non imputation of their trespasses unto them, they are most blessedly forgiven and reconciled to God Rom 5:10, which is solely by the death of Christ for them, not because of their repentance, or believing, because it occurred while they were still being enemies !

beloved57
August 17th, 2015, 06:00 AM
However, this aspect of their reconciliation and forgiveness by the death of Christ, still leaves them in spiritual death, or dead in trespasses and sins as in Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

So by nature, even though those Christ died for are dead in sin, they still have been forgiven of all them, and reconciled to God, even while they are spiritually dead !

But here is where the Promise comes in, which states, those reconciled to God by Christ's death, while they are yet enemies, dead in sin, they shall be saved by/in His Life !

This means that they shall be saved out of that dead state of enmity and being enemies, by His Life, they shall be quickened by His resurrected Life ! Thats what Paul means here 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Thats right, in His Resurrection from the dead, He was made a life giving Spirit, to give life to those for whom He lived and died for. They already have total forgiveness of sins, but now they need Life out of the dead. Christ, their Adam rose from the dead and was seated on the Right Hand of God to give them Life, which is also His resurrection Life for them ! Same thing is implied here Rom 6:4-5

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

In order to conform us into the Likeness of His Resurrection [which was for us anyway if He died for us] then we must be given to partake of that resurrection life which He does for us as a Life giving Spirit 1 Cor 15:45, which in turn saves us out of our spiritual death and being His enemies Rom 5:10 ! So the reconciled in Rom 5:10, while being enemies, shall be saved from being enemies, by Christ's Life.

This must happen and is promised to happen to everyone Christ died for !

So how could Christ had died for all without exception, when all without exception are not #1 Reconciled to God by His Death, and #2 Saved out of Spiritual death by His Life ? This saving is the same Paul speaks of also in Titus 3:5 by the renewing of the Spirit, which is the result of Christ being a Life giving Spirit 1 Cor 15:45 !

Nanja
August 18th, 2015, 07:55 AM
However, this aspect of their reconciliation and forgiveness by the death of Christ, still leaves them in spiritual death, or dead in trespasses and sins as in Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

So by nature, even though those Christ died for are dead in sin, they still have been forgiven of all them, and reconciled to God, even while they are spiritually dead !

But here is where the Promise comes in, which states, those reconciled to God by Christ's death, while they are yet enemies, dead in sin, they shall be saved by/in His Life !

This means that they shall be saved out of that dead state of enmity and being enemies, by His Life, they shall be quickened by His resurrected Life ! Thats what Paul means here 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Thats right, in His Resurrection from the dead, He was made a life giving Spirit, to give life to those for whom He lived and died for. They already have total forgiveness of sins, but now they need Life out of the dead. Christ, their Adam rose from the dead and was seated on the Right Hand of God to give them Life, which is also His resurrection Life for them ! Same thing is implied here Rom 6:4-5

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

In order to conform us into the Likeness of His Resurrection [which was for us anyway if He died for us] then we must be given to partake of that resurrection life which He does for us as a Life giving Spirit 1 Cor 15:45, which in turn saves us out of our spiritual death and being His enemies Rom 5:10 ! So the reconciled in Rom 5:10, while being enemies, shall be saved from being enemies, by Christ's Life.

This must happen and is promised to happen to everyone Christ died for !


Appreciated this 2-part study on Rom. 5:10 very much!



So how could Christ had died for all without exception, when all without exception are not #1 Reconciled to God by His Death, and #2 Saved out of Spiritual death by His Life ? This saving is the same Paul speaks of also in Titus 3:5 by the renewing of the Spirit, which is the result of Christ being a Life giving Spirit 1 Cor 15:45 !


If Christ was made a Quickening Spirit for all without exception,
then all without exception would be made a new man Eph. 4:24.

Contrariwise, the scriptures speak of many that were designated beforehand
to be cursed / condemned Mat. 25:41; Jude 1:4; their father is not God. Mat. 13:38-39; John 8:44.

~~~~~

beloved57
August 18th, 2015, 08:58 AM
Appreciated this 2-part study on Rom. 5:10 very much!





If Christ was made a Quickening Spirit for all without exception,
then all without exception would be made a new man Eph. 4:24.

Contrariwise, the scriptures speak of many that were designated beforehand
to be cursed / condemned Mat. 25:41; Jude 1:4; their father is not God. Mat. 13:38-39; John 8:44.

~~~~~

You have understood wisely ! God has blessed you !

beloved57
August 18th, 2015, 07:37 PM
2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Is this world everyone without exception ? By no means, in fact the verse tells us who are comprised of this World.

Its everyone that has been reconciled to God, that God has reconciled to Himself ! Now does that apply to every human being without exception ? No it does not !

Secondly, its everyone that has not and God will not impute their sins unto them !

In other words, its a world of blessed men and women who Favid clls blessed here Ps 32:1-2

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

And Paul quotes the same in Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Its a world full of men and women whose iniquities are forgiven and whose sins are covered !

Its a world full of folk that God will not impute sin, lay it to their charge ! And please note it says He will not do it, ever, not now, not in the future !

John Gill comments on Rom 4:8


Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. As he does not to those whom he justifies in Christ, and by his righteousness; for the sins of such he has imputed to his Son, as their surety; and he has bore them, took them away, having made full satisfaction for them; so that these persons will never be charged with them: they now appear before the throne without fault, and are blameless and irreproveable in the sight of God, and therefore must be eternally happy; for he will never think of their sins any more to their hurt; he will remember them no more; he "will never reckon them to them", but acquit them from them, justify and accept them; wherefore they must be secure from wrath and condemnation, enjoy much peace and comfort now, and be happy hereafter.

Thats who the World is in 2 Cor 5:19, those who are #1 Reconciled to God, #2 Have no sins charged to them !

Is that all without exception ? Jesus shall say to many who evidently have iniquity laid to their charge this Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Now how could they possibly be of those which it is said Ps 32:1-2

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile. See Rom 4:7-8

which are those in 2 Cor 5:19

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

beloved57
August 18th, 2015, 07:56 PM
The world in 2 Cor 5:19 cannot be inclusive of any individual who is not reconciled to God, or who is unreconciled !

Therefore the message in Vs 20 2 Cor 5:19-20

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

This message or command cannot be to the unreconciled, that would contradict Vs 19, that they were already reconciled to God also Vs 18

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

So the Gospel command in Vs 20 " be ye reconciled to God" is not to anyone who is not already reconciled to God, the unreconciled !

Then why does Paul tell reconciled folk to be ye reconciled ? Its because, the word of Truth begets Faith in them, its a call to Faith, for Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing the word of God Rom 10:17 !

The Truth is that they already are reconciled to God by and through Christ, and when they hear that Truth by the power of the Holy Spirit, they are commanded to believe it, they are commanded to believe what is already True ! There believing it doesn't make it true, it was true before they believed, and when they were enemies Rom 5:10 ! There believing it was Gods way of giving them personal knowledge of it and assurance of it !

beloved57
September 23rd, 2015, 10:51 PM
Rom 5:9-10

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now heres Grace, Being Reconciled to God, Justified before God, by the Death of His Son, while being enemies, thats the purport of these verses, meaning while those Jesus Christ died for were in a active state of rebellion, enmity, fighting and resisting God, they were completely Righteous before Him, and on their way to Eternal Glory ! For example, to further Illustrate what i mean, remember Paul the Apostle, when he was saul the persecutor of the Church / Believers in Christ, as here Acts 9:1

And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

Yes, while he was actively breathing out threatening and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, he was nevertheless reconciled to God, Justified and Righteous before Him, and on his way to Eternal Glory, even at that very moment ! He did not need to repent, believe, pray, or be water baptized or any of that, it was already a fact as much as Christ his Surety and forerunner was already in Glory in his behalf, and thats a fact, and the reason for that is simply the death of Christ, Gods Son for him, thats it ! And so it is with all for whom Christ died !

Nanja
September 24th, 2015, 07:22 AM
Rom 5:9-10

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now heres Grace, Being Reconciled to God, Justified before God, by the Death of His Son, while being enemies, thats the purport of these verses, meaning while those Jesus Christ died for were in a active state of rebellion, enmity, fighting and resisting God, they were completely Righteous before Him, and on their way to Eternal Glory ! For example, to further Illustrate what i mean, remember Paul the Apostle, when he was saul the persecutor of the Church / Believers in Christ, as here Acts 9:1

And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

Yes, while he was actively breathing out threatening and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, he was nevertheless reconciled to God, Justified and Righteous before Him, and on his way to Eternal Glory, even at that very moment ! He did not need to repent, believe, pray, or be water baptized or any of that, it was already a fact as much as Christ his Surety and forerunner was already in Glory in his behalf, and thats a fact, and the reason for that is simply the death of Christ, Gods Son for him, thats it ! And so it is with all for whom Christ died !


Precisely!

Because Christ was made a Surety for all the Elect chosen in Him before time,
according to God's Eternal Purpose, they were already reconciled to God in Him.
Therefore, all the sins they would ever commit were imputed to Christ to die for.
Just like the Apostle Paul, all of God's Sons were always in His Favor Rom. 3:24.

~~~~~

beloved57
September 24th, 2015, 08:29 AM
Precisely!

Because Christ was made a Surety for all the Elect chosen in Him before time,
according to God's Eternal Purpose, they were already reconciled to God in Him.
Therefore, all the sins they would ever commit were imputed to Christ to die for.
Just like the Apostle Paul, all of God's Sons were always in His Favor Rom. 3:24.

~~~~~

Excellent!

Tambora
September 24th, 2015, 08:52 AM
Romans 11 KJV
(28) As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

beloved57
September 24th, 2015, 11:50 AM
Romans 11 KJV
(28) As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Post 208, did you understand the points I made with scripture ?

beloved57
November 15th, 2015, 03:45 PM
False religionists, who reject Salvation by Grace, do also reject the Truth of God's Grace, that those Christ has died for, had been reconciled to God, by that Death, while they were enemies Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This reconciliation to God was without them meeting any conditions, not any requirements, in fact it occurred while they were in a state of hostility and hatred and enmity against God;

And it was while they were being so, that they were actually reconciled, that is brought into harmony and agreement with God, received into His Favor and Friendship ! Dont be deceived by false teachers, they were reconciled to God, not potentially reconciled to God, it was not just possibly and not actually, they were reconciled to God on the bases of the Death of Christ. If it was only made possible, Christ's Death fell far short of the Glory of God. They were all reconciled to God and put in harmony with Him, as they had been when they were in harmony with God in Adam before the fall !

The fleshly carnal mind ruled by pride cannot receive this Grace Truth, it rejects it every time !

beloved57
November 29th, 2015, 01:22 AM
As stated before, this is a Truth of the Gospel that proud religionist cannot and will not receive Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This Truth to them that perish is foolishness, but yet again its the message of the Gospel of the Grace of God in Christ; yes that Believers, back before they became believers, when they were unconverted, unbelievers, in fact while even being active enemies, nevertheless they had been reconciled to God, how, by the Death of Gods Son for them.

The word enemies echthros means:

hated, hostile; subst: an enemy.

properly, an enemy; someone openly hostile (at enmity), animated by deep-seated hatred. 2190/exthros ("enemy"), implies irreconcilable hostility, proceeding out of a "personal" hatred bent on inflicting harm

Remember how the Apostle Paul acted towards the Church when he was unconverted and inflicting harm out of hatered for Christ and His followers as here Acts 9:1-2

And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

Well, when believers had that same spirit and hostility towards God/Christ, they had been Reconciled to God.

The word enemies also indicate that even when believers were under the power and control of the devil, as stated here Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

While being adversaries to God, opponents of His, enemies in our minds towards Him by wicked works Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

even then, by the Grace of God, they were reconciled to God, meaning they were in a Right and pleasing relationship with Him, in His Favor, at Peace and Harmony with them ! He raised up Christ from the dead after He had died for their sins as the God of Peace Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Yes, even while they were enemies, God was reconciled to them and at Peace with them, and they with Him, through Christ !

This the natural man, self righteous religionist cannot receive !

beloved57
December 19th, 2015, 04:10 PM
Many out of spiritual ignorance do deny that reconciliation and Justification are equivalent, because they are ignorant to the things of God. Now to be reconciled to God while being enemies as stated in Rom 5:10, that it also means they are Justified/Declared Righteous while enemies by the same Death of Christ is seen in scripture comparison, for the being reconciled in Rom 5:10 is the same in 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ,[B] reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation

But here in 2 Cor 5:19 we are enlightened as to what being reconciled entails, the Non Imputation of sins ! So those reconciled while enemies in Rom 5:10 also are blessed with the non imputation of sins. Now the non imputation of sins equates to Justification and or being declared Righteous, this we know by more scripture comparison, for when David wrote Ps 32:1-2

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

The same non imputation as in 2 Cor 5:19 which is joined to reconciliation, hence when Paul quotes David later from Ps 32:1-2, which clearly speaks of Non Imputation, here in Rom 4:6-8

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


Paul attaches Gods Imputation of Righteousness without works, by stating and quoting Davids non imputation of sin blessedness Rom 4:7-8 Cp Ps 32:1-2

So its scriptural to declare, those reconciled to God while enemies in Rom 5:10, have no sin imputed to them as Per 2 Cor 5:19, which declares them Righteous without works in Rom 4:6-8 ! To deny this is to deny scripture Truth. To deny that those reconciled to God by Christ's death while enemies as Per Rom 5:10 that they are Righteous and Justified before God while enemies, is to deny clear teaching of scripture and puts one in Unbelief !

beloved57
December 27th, 2015, 03:29 AM
This is that Blessed Truth of Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This teaches us a very blessed and gracious Truth, which the proud antichrist religionists cannot receive, and that is, even when those Christ died for are being enemies, unbelievers, ungodly, God has accepted them into His Favor, sees them as Just, and Righteous, and reckons them as if they never had sinned.

The word reconciled in Rom 5:10 is the greek word katallassō and means:

I.to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value

A.to reconcile (those who are at variance)


B.return to favour with, be reconciled to one


C.to receive one into favour

And these have been Justified, which are reconciled while enemies because God will not impute sin unto them 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So those reconciled here in 2 Cor 5:19 are the same ones of Rom 5:10 and so the reconciled enemies in Rom 5:10 dont have sin charged to them, even when they are unbelieving enemies, nor is faith and repentance required, no they are totally accepted of God without them,

So to teach, even suggest that any for whom Christ died[He did not die for everyone] must first come to Him in repentance in order to be accepted of God, saved or Justified before God, made right with Him, they are liars, and scripture here Rom 5:10 condemns them as such !

beloved57
January 16th, 2016, 07:43 AM
Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now we know that Justification and Reconciliation are one and the same, or simultaneously concurrent, because in order for a sinner to be reconciled to God, sins must be discharged and viewed as no longer debts to Gods Law and Justice, and must be reckoned as Righteous, no unrighteous person is reconciled to a Holy God ! Hence, them that are reconciled to God by Christ's Death while enemies, must also be Righteous and discharged of all iniquity before Gods Law and Justice as enemies !

beloved57
January 28th, 2016, 12:14 AM
If anyone tells us that Reconciliation is not Salvation, dont believe it, its a lie. The fact is reconciliation is Salvation in that its Peace with God. We read Col 1:20

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

This peace through reconciliation by the blood of Christ is Preached as good tidings of Salvation, for we read again in Rom 10:15

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Now Rom 10:15 is taken from Isa 52:7

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

The Gospel of Peace which is the result of reconciliation Rom 10:15

And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Eph 6:15

And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

Eph 2:17

And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

This is also the Gospel of Salvation Isa 52:7

How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

Its the word of reconciliation established by the Blood of Christ 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

If anyone through the blood of Christ has been reconciled to God, they have with God Peace and Salvation, and it will be Preached to them !

Nanja
January 28th, 2016, 09:26 AM
If anyone tells us that Reconciliation is not Salvation, dont believe it, its a lie. The fact is reconciliation is Salvation in that its Peace with God. We read Col 1:20

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

This peace through reconciliation by the blood of Christ is Preached as good tidings of Salvation, for we read again in Rom 10:15

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Now Rom 10:15 is taken from Isa 52:7

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

The Gospel of Peace which is the result of reconciliation Rom 10:15

And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Eph 6:15

And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

Eph 2:17

And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

This is also the Gospel of Salvation Isa 52:7

How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

Its the word of reconciliation established by the Blood of Christ 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

If anyone through the blood of Christ has been reconciled to God, they have with God Peace and Salvation, and it will be Preached to them !


Amen, Reconciliation Is Salvation!

Those who have been Reconciled to God by Christ's death on their behalf Titus 1:1-2; 2:14 KJV,
because they are in a state of being at Peace with God, He shall give them Hearing ears Prov. 20:12
and Faith Gal. 5:22 in New Birth to Believe the Gospel of their Salvation Eph. 1:13,
for the Word of Truth shall be Sent and Preached to them Rom. 10:15.

~~~~~

beloved57
January 30th, 2016, 03:29 AM
Amen, Reconciliation Is Salvation!

Those who have been Reconciled to God by Christ's death on their behalf Titus 1:1-2; 2:14 KJV,
because they are in a state of being at Peace with God, He shall give them Hearing ears Prov. 20:12
and Faith Gal. 5:22 in New Birth to Believe the Gospel of their Salvation Eph. 1:13,
for the Word of Truth shall be Sent and Preached to them Rom. 10:15.

~~~~~

Amen ! Also Reconciliation and Salvation are seen to be the same when we consider what it says in Rom 11, observe first Rom 11:11

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Here Paul writes that through national israels fall, Salvation is come to the Gentiles !

Then in Vs 15 Rom 11:15

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Here Paul says that their casting away, which is the same as their fall in Vs 11 results in the reconciling of the World or Gentiles !

The reconciling here is the same as the Salvation in Vs 11 !

The word reconciling in Vs 15 is the greek word katallagé and literally means:

restoration to favor,reconciliation (restoration) as the resulting of Christ exactly (precisely) exchanging His righteousness (blood) for our guilt.

Thats Salvation to be put in favor with God and covered with Christ's Righteousness in exchange for Him taking their guilt and sin punishment ! Thats Salvation !

Nanja
January 30th, 2016, 07:13 AM
Amen ! Also Reconciliation and Salvation are seen to be the same when we consider what it says in Rom 11, observe first Rom 11:11

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Here Paul writes that through national israels fall, Salvation is come to the Gentiles !

Then in Vs 15 Rom 11:15

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Here Paul says that their casting away, which is the same as their fall in Vs 11 results in the reconciling of the World or Gentiles !

The reconciling here is the same as the Salvation in Vs 11 !

The word reconciling in Vs 15 is the greek word katallagé and literally means:

restoration to favor,reconciliation (restoration) as the resulting of Christ exactly (precisely) exchanging His righteousness (blood) for our guilt.

Thats Salvation to be put in favor with God and covered with Christ's Righteousness in exchange for Him taking their guilt and sin punishment ! Thats Salvation !


Amen! That's an excellent example! And the World that God reconciled to Himself 2 Cor. 5:19 was comprised of Israel,
the Spiritual Seed of Abraham Gen. 17:5; Gal. 3:16, the only People Christ died for Rom. 5:10, that were promised Salvation, Is. 45:17!

~~~~~

beloved57
January 30th, 2016, 07:30 AM
Amen! That's an excellent example! And the World that God reconciled to Himself 2 Cor. 5:19 was comprised of Israel,
the Spiritual Seed of Abraham Gen. 17:5; Gal. 3:16, the only People Christ died for Rom. 5:10, that were promised Salvation, Is. 45:17!

~~~~~
Exactly!

Interplanner
January 30th, 2016, 08:54 AM
Those in the ethne Israel could believe right now and that would be the life from the dead he meant, such as himself.

beloved57
February 14th, 2016, 03:30 AM
Those Christ died for, unlike them He did not die for, are reconciled to God while even being enemies and unbelievers, because of Christ's death for them Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now the unbelieving antichrist world religions do not believe this great blessing that attends the Death of Christ, however it is a True fact nevertheless and heres why.

Its because by the Death and Blood of Christ alone, Gods punitive Justice against their sins has been totally satisfied, and as a result of that, despite themselves, God is 100% reconciled to them, solely by the Death of Christ, and they are totally reconciled to God, no not in themselves, but in their Surety Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ. Its just like all men in Adam before the fall were in a right relationship with God, Upright, not in themselves, but in the Upright Adam Ecc 7:29

Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man[adam] upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

Because of Christ therefore, those He died for are reconciled to God and Justice can never cannot and will not charge them with anything Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

So as long as Christ died for one, whether they are a believer or not[though they shall believe in due time], they are totally reconciled to God, God reconciled to them, and no charges can ever be laid to their account, not in this world or the world to come !

Nanja
February 14th, 2016, 08:21 AM
Those Christ died for, unlike them He did not die for, are reconciled to God while even being enemies and unbelievers, because of Christ's death for them Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now the unbelieving antichrist world religions do not believe this great blessing that attends the Death of Christ, however it is a True fact nevertheless and heres why.

Its because by the Death and Blood of Christ alone, Gods punitive Justice against their sins has been totally satisfied, and as a result of that, despite themselves, God is 100% reconciled to them, solely by the Death of Christ, and they are totally reconciled to God, no not in themselves, but in their Surety Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ. Its just like all men in Adam before the fall were in a right relationship with God, Upright, not in themselves, but in the Upright Adam Ecc 7:29

Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man[adam] upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

Because of Christ therefore, those He died for are reconciled to God and Justice can never cannot and will not charge them with anything Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

So as long as Christ died for one, whether they are a believer or not[though they shall believe in due time], they are totally reconciled to God, God reconciled to them, and no charges can ever be laid to their account, not in this world or the world to come !


Amen!

The Elect, Christ's Sheep, given Him of the Father John 10:29
were always Blessed, and in a permanently Reconciled state with God,
Righteous in His Sight, because no sin was ever imputed to them Rom. 4:8
but was laid on Christ their Surety Head and Chief Shepherd from Everlasting.

Is. 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one
to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Praise the Lord!

~~~~~

beloved57
February 14th, 2016, 09:30 AM
Amen!

The Elect, Christ's Sheep, given Him of the Father John 10:29
were always Blessed, and in a permanently Reconciled state with God,
Righteous in His Sight, because no sin was ever imputed to them Rom. 4:8
but was laid on Christ their Surety Head and Chief Shepherd from Everlasting.

Is. 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one
to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Praise the Lord!

~~~~~
Amen!

beloved57
March 15th, 2016, 02:04 AM
Shall be saved by His Life !

This promise is made of all for whom Christ died and reconciled to God by His death while they were enemies Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This scripture guarantees that these enemies Christ died for shall be saved by His Life ! They have been already reconciled to God, yet further blessing is promised. That they shall be saved by His[Christ] Life means that they shall be saved from being Gods enemy experientially, and that they shall believe the Truth, which is another aspect of salvation. We read of this here 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

In other words its an aspect of Salvation, a Saving, to be sanctified by the Spirit unto belief of the Truth. So in essence, those enemies in Rom 5:10 who were reconciled to God by Christ's death, its promised of them that they shall be saved by Christ's Life unto belief of the Truth. Christ's Life is His Spirit being given to them He substituted for as their Surety, thats why He is as the second or last adam made a life giving Spirit 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening[life giving] spirit. That is His Life referred to in Rom 5:10 that they shall be saved by !

And so we know this is not true of all mankind without exception, hence Christ did not die for all mankind without exception , unless we come to embrace the heresy of universalism and make the false claim that all mankind without exception shall be saved by Christs Life !

Nanja
March 15th, 2016, 03:56 PM
Shall be saved by His Life !

This promise is made of all for whom Christ died and reconciled to God by His death while they were enemies Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This scripture guarantees that these enemies Christ died for shall be saved by His Life ! They have been already reconciled to God, yet further blessing is promised. That they shall be saved by His[Christ] Life means that they shall be saved from being Gods enemy experientially, and that they shall believe the Truth, which is another aspect of salvation. We read of this here 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

In other words its an aspect of Salvation, a Saving, to be sanctified by the Spirit unto belief of the Truth. So in essence, those enemies in Rom 5:10 who were reconciled to God by Christ's death, its promised of them that they shall be saved by Christ's Life unto belief of the Truth. Christ's Life is His Spirit being given to them He substituted for as their Surety, thats why He is as the second or last adam made a life giving Spirit 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening[life giving] spirit. That is His Life referred to in Rom 5:10 that they shall be saved by !

And so we know this is not true of all mankind without exception, hence Christ did not die for all mankind without exception , unless we come to embrace the heresy of universalism and make the false claim that all mankind without exception shall be saved by Christs Life !


Amen!


No person can choose to partake of Christ's Life-Giving Power by any action of his own.

But it's a Gift of God which is received passively by all those Christ died for.

Rom. 8:14-16
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear;
but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Gal. 4:6
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.


The only portion of mankind that Christ died for are His Adopted Sons / Children Eph. 1:4-7 who were reconciled to God by their Surety Christ Jesus. So they shall be quickened by the Power of the Spirit of Christ given them during their lifetime. For they were already made Righteous / Justified in God's Sight from Everlasting 2 Cor. 5:19, 21.


Many today falsely believe that it's their own faith or believing which is the causative factor for their justification before God, but they are deceived.


~~~~~

Bright Raven
March 15th, 2016, 04:29 PM
Amen!


No person can choose to partake of Christ's Life-Giving Power by any action of his own.

But it's a Gift of God which is received passively by all those Christ died for.

Rom. 8:14-16
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear;
but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Gal. 4:6
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.


The only portion of mankind that Christ died for are His Adopted Sons / Children Eph. 1:4-7 who were reconciled to God by their Surety Christ Jesus. So they shall be quickened by the Power of the Spirit of Christ given them during their lifetime. For they were already made Righteous / Justified in God's Sight from Everlasting 2 Cor. 5:19, 21.


Many today falsely believe that it's their own faith or believing which is the causative factor for their justification before God, but they are deceived.


~~~~~Romans 10:8-13 You loose.

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.”

12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;

13 for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Is Paul wrong?

Nanja
March 15th, 2016, 05:05 PM
Romans 10:8-13 You loose.

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.”

12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;

13 for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Is Paul wrong?


Because Belief / Faith is a Gift and Fruit of the Holy Spirit, it's not something we DO to become saved, but we do them as a result that we have become Saved and under the Power of the Holy Spirit!

~~~~~

Bright Raven
March 15th, 2016, 05:07 PM
Read the RED!

Nanja
March 15th, 2016, 05:20 PM
Read the RED!



9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.




Man by nature has a wicked heart Jer. 17:9. Only when God intervenes and gives one a New Heart Ezek. 36:26-27 and a New Spirit in New Birth will he be capable of confessing, believing, or doing anything whatsoever that pleases God Rom. 8:7-8!

~~~~~

God's Truth
March 16th, 2016, 12:41 AM
Man by nature has a wicked heart Jer. 17:9. Only when God intervenes and gives one a New Heart Ezek. 36:26-27 and a New Spirit in New Birth will he be capable of confessing, believing, or doing anything whatsoever that pleases God Rom. 8:7-8!

~~~~~

The scriptures do not say what you claim they do.

Nanja
March 16th, 2016, 05:04 AM
The scriptures do not say what you claim they do.


They certainly do, but you aren't able to receieve Truth 1 Cor. 2:14.

~~~~~

God's Truth
March 16th, 2016, 07:31 AM
They certainly do, but you aren't able to receieve Truth 1 Cor. 2:14.

~~~~~

You have been ensnared.

2 Timothy 2:26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.


Just listen to yourself. You are going against someone for saying to believe and obey Jesus to get saved, and to stay saved.

You do not see that something is wrong with you, because you have been ensnared.

Even sense that is common escapes you.

God's Truth
March 16th, 2016, 07:36 AM
Who says to the one that tells a child, "Do whatever your parents tell you to do" that they are wrong and teach falseness?

Only someone without any sense would say that. Only someone ensnared by the devil.

The Calvinists teach against those that preach believe AND OBEY. God says to do this and that, but Calvinists say, "No, we cannot, not until you save us first."

The faith alone crowd says, "No, I will believe, but not obey anything, until you save me first."

It is a false doctrine to go against obeying God, for any reason.

God's Truth
March 16th, 2016, 07:38 AM
Believe and obey Jesus to be saved, and to stay saved.

How in the world can anyone go wrong by doing that?

Nanja
March 16th, 2016, 08:15 AM
You have been ensnared.

2 Timothy 2:26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.


Just listen to yourself. You are going against someone for saying to believe and obey Jesus to get saved, and to stay saved.

You do not see that something is wrong with you, because you have been ensnared.

Even sense that is common escapes you.


To sum it up quickly, I've been reading your posts for 3 years now, in which you constistenly preach a false gospel of salvation by works of the law Gal. 1:8.

~~~~~

beloved57
March 19th, 2016, 02:18 AM
Men and Women whom Christ died for, they partake of His Saving Benefits, because Hes their Saviour, while they themselves are enemies and unbelievers. They, unlike the rest of mankind whom He did not die for, are reconciled to God, and abide in His acceptance and favor Rom 5:10, while others are under His Wrath and Condemnation while they are being enemies and unbelievers Jn 3:18,36 ! So thats how we know that some have taken part of Christ's Saving Death when enemies and unbelievers, and some have not while enemies and unbelievers, so how do you explain that ?

beloved57
March 19th, 2016, 02:19 AM
To sum it up quickly, I've been reading your posts for 3 years now, in which you consistently preach a false gospel of salvation by works of the law Gal. 1:8.

~~~~~

Sure you right !

beloved57
March 19th, 2016, 02:20 AM
Believe and obey Jesus to be saved, and to stay saved.

How in the world can anyone go wrong by doing that?

False statements nowhere found in scripture !

beloved57
March 19th, 2016, 02:24 AM
Because Belief / Faith is a Gift and Fruit of the Holy Spirit, it's not something we DO to become saved, but we do them as a result that we have become Saved and under the Power of the Holy Spirit!

~~~~~


He like all false teachers, teach salvation by works, by what a person does !

Nanja
March 19th, 2016, 05:03 AM
Men and Women whom Christ died for, they partake of His Saving Benefits, because Hes their Saviour, while they themselves are enemies and unbelievers. They, unlike the rest of mankind whom He did not die for, are reconciled to God, and abide in His acceptance and favor Rom 5:10, while others are under His Wrath and Condemnation while they are being enemies and unbelievers Jn 3:18,36 ! So thats how we know that some have taken part of Christ's Saving Death when enemies and unbelievers, and some have not while enemies and unbelievers, so how do you explain that ?


That's a perfect description of Christ's Sheep He died for John 10:11-15,
and the cursed goats which remain permanently under God's Wrath John 3:36; Mat. 25:33, 41.

~~~~~

beloved57
March 19th, 2016, 05:05 AM
That's a perfect description of Christ's Sheep He died for John 10:11-15,
and the cursed goats which remain permanently under God's Wrath John 3:36; Mat. 25:33, 41.

~~~~~
Good Morning and Amen!

Nanja
March 19th, 2016, 05:07 AM
Good Morning and Amen!


Good morning! :)

~~~~~

beloved57
March 19th, 2016, 07:28 AM
No conditions to be reconciled !

Not all men are reconciled to God by Christ's death while being enemies, and thats simply because Christ's death was not for everyone without exception. Thats why some are reconciled to God while being enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10 and why some are under Gods wrath and condemnation while being enemies and unbelievers Jn 3:18,36 !

There is simply only one explanation for this, Christ died for some who are enemies and unbelievers and did not die for others who are enemies and unbelievers !

The enemies and unbelievers that Christ died for are reconciled to God by it, did not perform any conditions whatsoever, because they were actively enemies and unbelievers, So Christ fulfilled all the conditions necessary for them to be reconciled to God while being enemies and unbelievers !

Nanja
March 21st, 2016, 07:57 AM
No conditions to be reconciled !

Not all men are reconciled to God by Christ's death while being enemies, and thats simply because Christ's death was not for everyone without exception. Thats why some are reconciled to God while being enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10 and why some are under Gods wrath and condemnation while being enemies and unbelievers Jn 3:18,36 !

There is simply only one explanation for this, Christ died for some who are enemies and unbelievers and did not die for others who are enemies and unbelievers !

The enemies and unbelievers that Christ died for are reconciled to God by it, did not perform any conditions whatsoever, because they were actively enemies and unbelievers, So Christ fulfilled all the conditions necessary for them to be reconciled to God while being enemies and unbelievers !


Amen!

The Reconciled ones Rom. 5:10 shall Believe on Christ because it was God's Purpose in Election 2 Tim. 1:9, that His Sheep He died for John 10:11, 15 would never have any sin imputed to them, but were laid on Christ their Surety Heb. 7:22 instead Eph. 1:4-7; Is. 53:6; Rom. 4:8. Thus, they were delivered from the wrath to come 1 Thes. 1:10.


But all the others, the goats, are not given to believe on Christ John 10:26; He never knew them Mat. 7:23, that's why they were condemned already, for the wages of sin is death Rom. 6:23.


Mat. 25:31-34, 41
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

~~~~~

beloved57
March 21st, 2016, 08:41 AM
Amen!

The Reconciled ones Rom. 5:10 shall Believe on Christ because it was God's Purpose in Election 2 Tim. 1:9, that His Sheep He died for John 10:11, 15 would never have any sin imputed to them, but were laid on Christ their Surety Heb. 7:22 instead Eph. 1:4-7; Is. 53:6; Rom. 4:8. Thus, they were delivered from the wrath to come 1 Thes. 1:10.


But all the others, the goats, are not given to believe on Christ John 10:26; He never knew them Mat. 7:23, that's why they were condemned already, for the wages of sin is death Rom. 6:23.


Mat. 25:31-34, 41
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

~~~~~
Amen!

beloved57
May 8th, 2016, 02:51 AM
Reconciliation by Christs death is not just unilateral !

The terrible mistake of false religion is to believe and teach that Christs death is only unilateral in its effect, but that is a grave
mistake. You see, that makes the death of Christ falling short of reconciling , bringing man to God, which the scripture teaches that it does. Peter writes of the death of Christ this fact 1 Pet 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

See, His suffering for our sins was for the purpose of bringing us to God ! He by it, leads us to God. It also :



to render one acceptable to God

It does that which God told cain that if he did well he would be accepted Gen 4:7

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?



Well Christ death, for all whom He suffered and died for causes them to be accepted of God, without them doing anything !

Christ's reconciling death will also cause us to come to God in being saved to the uttermost Heb 7:25

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Notice " them that come to God BY HIM ! Meaning His reconciling work which brings them to God 1 Pet 3:18 !

Paul writes also Col 1: 21,22a

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled. How ?

22a 22 In the body of his flesh through death,

So those who teach that Christ's death effected only a unilateral reconciliation, they teach lies, they teach ignorantly, and do Christ's death accomplishment a disservice !

Nanja
May 8th, 2016, 07:35 AM
Reconciliation by Christs death is not just unilateral !

The terrible mistake of false religion is to believe and teach that Christs death is only unilateral in its effect, but that is a grave
mistake. You see, that makes the death of Christ falling short of reconciling , bringing man to God, which the scripture teaches that it does. Peter writes of the death of Christ this fact 1 Pet 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

See, His suffering for our sins was for the purpose of bringing us to God ! He by it, leads us to God. It also :



to render one acceptable to God

It does that which God told cain that if he did well he would be accepted Gen 4:7

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?




That perfectly describes antichrist freewill religion, doing something well in the flesh, to get themselves saved!







Well Christ death, for all whom He suffered and died for causes them to be accepted of God, without them doing anything !

Christ's reconciling death will also cause us to come to God in being saved to the uttermost Heb 7:25

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Notice " them that come to God BY HIM ! Meaning His reconciling work which brings them to God 1 Pet 3:18 !

Paul writes also Col 1: 21,22a

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled. How ?

22a 22 In the body of his flesh through death,

So those who teach that Christ's death effected only a unilateral reconciliation, they teach lies, they teach ignorantly, and do Christ's death accomplishment a disservice !




Amen! Christ's death had a twofold effect, in that it effectively reconciled, and brings back to God all His Elect, His Sheep He died for John 10:11,15, which sinned in their federal head Adam when he sinned. And It's not contingent on anything they do, but solely according to God's Eternal Purpose for all those chosen in Union with Christ before the foundation 2 Tim. 1:9.

~~~~~