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chrysostom
October 16th, 2011, 09:47 AM
the seven heads

the seven heads are the seven dynasties of the Roman Empire

Julio-Claudian dynasty 68
Flavian dynasty 96
Adoptive and Antonine Emperors 192
House of Severus 235
Tetrarchy and the House of Constantine 364
House of Valentinian 455
Family of Leo I the Great 476

many have been counting the kings

not many understand that there were seven dynasties
but
the historians are the ones who determined this when they came up with the Byzantine Empire to separate the eastern Roman empire from the western one

isaac newton agrees they are dynasties (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4434546#post4434546)

back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

faramir77
October 16th, 2011, 09:53 AM
Sounds like Jesuit Popery to me.

The "Holy Roman Empire" was neither Holy nor Roman.

Your Pal,
St. Faramir the Devine

chrysostom
October 16th, 2011, 09:56 AM
Sounds like Jesuit Popery to me.

The "Holy Roman Empire" was neither Holy nor Roman.

Your Pal,
St. Faramir the Devine

we are not talking about the Holy Roman Empire

jerzy
October 16th, 2011, 10:07 AM
the seven heads

the seven heads are the seven dynasties of the Roman Empire

Julio-Claudian dynasty 68
Flavian dynasty 96
Adoptive and Antonine Emperors 192
House of Severus 235
Tetrarchy and the House of Constantine 364
House of Valentinian 455
Family of Leo I the Great 476

many have been counting the kings

not many understand that there were seven dynasties
but
the historians are the ones who determined this when they came up with the Byzantine Empire to separate the eastern Roman empire from the western one

Pity but there were 10 horns and no heads if you are trying to explain Da 7 away.

chrysostom
October 16th, 2011, 10:13 AM
Pity but there were 10 horns and no heads if you are trying to explain Da 7 away.

the ten horns come later
and
they are the ten Islamic dynasties

jerzy
October 16th, 2011, 10:19 AM
the ten horns come later
and
they are the ten Islamic dynasties

Ten Islamic dynasties of the fourth beast of Da 7.

Long leap, Chrys.

chrysostom
October 16th, 2011, 10:22 AM
Ten Islamic dynasties of the fourth beast of Da 7.

Long leap, Chrys.

how is the fourth beast different from all the others?
if
not Islam

jerzy
October 16th, 2011, 10:24 AM
how is the fourth beast different from all the others?
if
not Islam

Check Da 2.

chrysostom
October 16th, 2011, 10:46 AM
Check Da 2.

can you help me understand that chapter?

jerzy
October 16th, 2011, 11:45 AM
can you help me understand that chapter?

Da 2?

chrysostom
October 16th, 2011, 11:58 AM
Da 2?

yes

jerzy
October 16th, 2011, 12:24 PM
yes

Just read it. :wave:

chrysostom
July 30th, 2014, 11:19 AM
the seven heads

the seven heads are the seven dynasties of the Roman Empire

Julio-Claudian dynasty 68
Flavian dynasty 96
Adoptive and Antonine Emperors 192
House of Severus 235
Tetrarchy and the House of Constantine 364
House of Valentinian 455
Family of Leo I the Great 476

many have been counting the kings

not many understand that there were seven dynasties
but
the historians are the ones who determined this when they came up with the Byzantine Empire to separate the eastern Roman empire from the western one

back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

many have tried counting kings
with very little success
so
it is time to count dynasties
and
see if that works

chrysostom
August 5th, 2014, 03:25 AM
lots of emperors
but
only seven dynasties

List of Roman emperors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_emperors#Theodosian_dynasty)

chrysostom
August 18th, 2014, 07:33 AM
so why seven dynasties?

they represent the first beast that was mortally wounded
paganism of the western roman empire was the first beast

when constantine moved the capital to constantinople
and
changed it to a christian empire that would last 1000 years

paganism was mortally wounded

chrysostom
August 31st, 2014, 07:32 AM
the seven heads

the seven heads are the seven dynasties of the Roman Empire

Julio-Claudian dynasty 68
Flavian dynasty 96
Adoptive and Antonine Emperors 192
House of Severus 235
Tetrarchy and the House of Constantine 364
House of Valentinian 455
Family of Leo I the Great 476

many have been counting the kings

not many understand that there were seven dynasties
but
the historians are the ones who determined this when they came up with the Byzantine Empire to separate the eastern Roman empire from the western one

back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

the key here is

the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed 13:12 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev+13%3A12&version=KJV)

instead of empires or kingdoms
we should be looking at religions as the beasts
it was the religion of the roman empire that was the real problem
paganism
it was mortally wounded st the beginning of the byzantine empire
but
it was soon replaced by islam
the black stone is at the kaaba, a sacred shrine of muslims, which was originally a pagan shrine

chrysostom
September 23rd, 2014, 04:31 AM
Revelation 17:7 (KJV)

7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

the key here is the word

mystery

everyone knew rome had seven hills

it was not a mystery

chrysostom
October 5th, 2014, 04:32 AM
five have fallen
one is
and
one is yet to come

at that time chyrsostom was in ephesus replacing seven bishops

chrysostom
October 22nd, 2014, 03:02 AM
five have fallen
one is
and
one is yet to come

at that time chyrsostom was in ephesus replacing seven bishops

it was the end of the fourth century
and
the bishop of ephesus had sold the bishoporic to six other churches in the area
so
john was asked to replace all seven of the corrupted bishops

it took a few months to do it
did he visit patmos?
did he find a copy of the apocalypse?
did he edit it?

jerzy
October 22nd, 2014, 04:47 AM
it was the end of the fourth century
and
the bishop of ephesus had sold the bishoporic to six other churches in the area
so
john was asked to replace all seven of the corrupted bishops

it took a few months to do it
did he visit patmos?
did he find a copy of the apocalypse?
did he edit it?

You are trying to pervert the clear God’s word of Da 2, Da 7 and the barbaric history of your organisation.

You don't want to know what happened to your "Holy and Infallible" in 1798, do you chrysostom?

chrysostom
November 10th, 2014, 04:36 AM
thanks for stopping by

chrysostom
May 30th, 2015, 02:24 PM
the seven dynasties of the roman empire

Anto9us
May 30th, 2015, 02:28 PM
I am interested in the ambiguities of the Apocalypse regarding a "city of 7 hills' (which alludes to Rome

-- and a "city where also our Lord was cruficfied" which clearly would be Jerusalem -- though they are alluded to as Sodom, Babylon and Egypt

city where the Lord was crucified can only be Jerusalem

patrick jane
May 30th, 2015, 02:37 PM
]the seven heads[/U]

the seven heads are the seven dynasties of the Roman Empire

Julio-Claudian dynasty 68
Flavian dynasty 96
Adoptive and Antonine Emperors 192
House of Severus 235
Tetrarchy and the House of Constantine 364
House of Valentinian 455
Family of Leo I the Great 476

many have been counting the kings

not many understand that there were seven dynasties
but
the historians are the ones who determined this when they came up with the Byzantine Empire to separate the eastern Roman empire from the western one

back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)



8 Heads ! In A Duffel Bag ! -

19817

daqq
May 31st, 2015, 04:24 AM
When the prince of the power of the air unclean spirit of the world is gone out of a man he walks through the dry-arid places seeking rest: and finding none, he says, I will return to my house from where I came out. And when he comes he finds it swept and garnished, (with idols). Then he goes and associates unto himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. And the eighth is of the seven because he is the first goat which was cast out into the desert in the commencement with all the sins upon his mortally wounded head, (for an atonement to be made at a later date which no man knows). No exceptions to the rule: each in his or her own appointed times, and none shall be alone in his appointed times. :)

patrick jane
May 31st, 2015, 07:54 PM
When the prince of the power of the air unclean spirit of the world is gone out of a man he walks through the dry-arid places seeking rest: and finding none, he says, I will return to my house from where I came out. And when he comes he finds it swept and garnished, (with idols). Then he goes and associates unto himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. And the eighth is of the seven because he is the first goat which was cast out into the desert in the commencement with all the sins upon his mortally wounded head, (for an atonement to be made at a later date which no man knows). No exceptions to the rule: each in his or her own appointed times, and none shall be alone in his appointed times. :)



Matthew 12:43 KJV - Matthew 12:44 KJV - Matthew 12:45 KJV -


Luke 11:24 KJV - Luke 11:25 KJV - Luke 11:26 KJV -

tell us more about the goat -

you connect that to Revelation 17:11 KJV - ?

daqq
June 1st, 2015, 06:01 PM
Matthew 12:43 KJV - Matthew 12:44 KJV - Matthew 12:45 KJV -


Luke 11:24 KJV - Luke 11:25 KJV - Luke 11:26 KJV -

tell us more about the goat -

you connect that to Revelation 17:11 KJV - ?

It is a stream of typology running through and occurs in quite a few places one would not think unless he or she is paying close attention, and in prayer, seeking to understand the kingdom of Elohim, (which is within you). I will therefore attempt to begin with the typology from the beginning while first stating that the live goat is the sa`iyr to-for `Aza'zel. The High Priest lays his hands upon the head of the goat confessing all the sins of the people upon his head, (a mortal head wound). Then the twin goat is aphiemi-sent away into the wilderness of dry-arid desert places to roam the erets-outlands of Nod until a later appointed time of which no man knows the day or the hour. The sa`iyr goat, (seeking rest and finding none) then takes together in association with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself:

1) a nomad Iyradi-fugitive wandering spirit.
2) a blotted out Mchuyael stricken-smitten spirit.
3) a full grown Mthushael manly man-faced spirit.
4) a tent dwelling Yabal spirit acquiring cattle and fatlings of Bashan.
5) a musical Yubal spirit of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, psaltery, and dulcimer.
6) a feminine Naamah tribal spirit of pleasantness and pleasure.
7) a Tubal-Cain spirit of brass and iron who brings forth Cain.

So the eighth is of the seven because he is the first to go out from the man: but when he returns to the house, which is the man with all his land, he is the fully leavened lump mixed in with all the other seven. The same are called "permanent dwellers" upon the earth because although their names are written in the book of the dead, (Genesis 4) still yet they are never written to have lived, for their names are not found written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, (Genesis 5). Likewise there are seven mountains of the land which is the man: the Chittiy, the Girgashiy, the Emoriy, the Kanaaniy, the Prizziy, the Chiviy, and the Ybuciy, seven heathen nations greater and mightier than the sons of Yisrael. You shall smite them and utterly destroy them: you shall make no covenants with them nor show mercy unto them: neither shall you make marriages with them as in the days of Noach. You shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire. Beware of the anthropon-man-faced, for they are deceitful and work wilily: they cannot be seen with the eyes of the flesh, for anthropon-man-faced they are which creep in unaware as you feast in the Word. They will deliver you up to the sanhedrins, and they will scourge you in their synagogues, and you shall be brought before governors and kings for the sake of name of Yeshua, for a testimony against them and against the heathen. But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what you shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour of trial what you shall speak, for it is not you that speak but the Spirit of your Father which speaks in you. And when the power of the people is completely beaten asunder-- holiness, all these things shall be finished. :)

Anto9us
June 1st, 2015, 09:56 PM
I repeat

a "city where also our Lord was cruficfied" which clearly would be Jerusalem

chrysostom
June 2nd, 2015, 04:58 AM
I repeat

a "city where also our Lord was cruficfied" which clearly would be Jerusalem

this is a tough one
and
the only way I can make it fit

is the kingdom of jerusalem
which ended 1291
but
not in jerusalem
but
in acre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Acre_(1291))

chrysostom
June 19th, 2015, 03:30 AM
seven dynasties of the roman empire

chrysostom
September 1st, 2015, 04:55 AM
isaac newton believes the seven heads are the seven dynasties of the roman empire

"The heads are the seven successive dynasties, or parts, in which the Roman Empire becomes divided by the opening of he seven seals."

heads are the seven successive dynasties (https://books.google.com/books?id=wp1zAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA245&dq=heads+are+the+seven+successive+dynasties&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAGoVChMI6PS4ltTVxwIVCI-ACh06yAa9#v=onepage&q=heads%20are%20the%20seven%20successive%20dynasti es&f=false)

you have to scroll down to page 245

Interplanner
September 1st, 2015, 07:17 AM
The Rev is not prognostication of world events. If a doctrine is not absolutely clear from a NT letter, do not generate it out of the Rev. It is a pastoral montage to help the 1st century Judean Christians as they had to leave everything and relocate in Little Asia.

chrysostom
September 1st, 2015, 07:32 AM
The Rev is not prognostication of world events. If a doctrine is not absolutely clear from a NT letter, do not generate it out of the Rev. It is a pastoral montage to help the 1st century Judean Christians as they had to leave everything and relocate in Little Asia.

this is not prophecy?
so
what is this?

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass

daqq
September 2nd, 2015, 06:55 AM
this is not prophecy?
so
what is this?

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass

things which must shortly come to pass

1) How long is "shortly come to pass" according to you? Is it nearly 2000 years as if even now many things in the book are yet unfulfilled? If so then your understanding of the statement and the entire book immediately breaks Torah commandments and we are not to fear or pay any heed to that prophet, (Deuteronomy 18:22). This does not mean the prophet is wrong in this case but rather it is clearly YOUR OPINION of what he writes that is in critical error for disregarding what the Torah says concerning such things. The same applies to your understanding of the prophetic statements of Yeshua found in the Olivet Discourse because Peter clearly states that Yeshua is the Prophet of Deuteronomy 18:15-19 which is quoted by Luke in Acts 3:22-23. In addition, if one would honor the commandments that are set forth in Deuteronomy 18:15-22, then the same must acknowledge that the only way anyone could have adequately verified whether or not what the prophet said had followed, and his words had come to pass, would be to wait absolutely no more than the whole lifetime of the observer himself. Therefore anything more than seventy years is enough time to know whether or not what the prophet said has come to pass or not. Two thousand years is absolutely out of the question because no observer has a lifespan of nearly two thousand years to wait around and see if what the prophet says will come to pass or not. In other words you are dreaming if you think your understanding complies with reality and the reality of what is written in the Torah. Your understanding is therefore invalid because the words of your version of the prophet never came to pass in an acceptable amount of time in which anyone living at the time the words were spoken could have verified as having come to pass.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him,

2) Do you suppose Yeshua sat down at the right hand of God upon being resurrected and then some 65 years later, around 95 AD/CE, Yeshua received a new revelation from the Father? How do you expect anyone to believe such nonsense? How can the one who is seated at the right hand of God receive any more revelation than has already been received? And especially 65 years or so AFTER he already sat down at the right hand of God? Would not such a one already know everything there is to know? How can he receive any more revelation whatsoever? It appears your understanding of the entire book does not even get past the opening statement without falling apart. The Son of God cannot have received the Revelation after being resurrected and seated at the right hand of the Father. In fact the scripture actually states when Yeshua was in the wilderness forty days fasting, and tempted of the Satan, that he was also with the wild beasts, which is the same word "therion" that is employed throughout the book of the Revelation of Yeshua in both singular and plural forms:

Mark 1:13 KJV
13. And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; [GSN#2342 therion] and the angels ministered unto him.

3) Do you think Yeshua was with literal-physical lions, bears, and leopards in the desert or, even worse, the evil empires of Babylon, Media-Persia, and Yavan? :crackup:

everready
September 2nd, 2015, 08:38 AM
I am interested in the ambiguities of the Apocalypse regarding a "city of 7 hills' (which alludes to Rome

-- and a "city where also our Lord was cruficfied" which clearly would be Jerusalem -- though they are alluded to as Sodom, Babylon and Egypt

city where the Lord was crucified can only be Jerusalem

i wondered about that too, actually it was outside of the city.


everready

daqq
September 5th, 2015, 03:09 AM
There is likewise much more evidence in the Scripture itself, regarding who penned the Book of the Revelation of Messiah Yeshua, and if one believes what is written over and above the church father speculations and elaborations then the same can know that circa 95AD/CE is completely out of the question:

Matthew 11:10-15 KJV
10. For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
11. Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
12. And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
13. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
14. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
15. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Of men having been born of women there had arisen none greater than Yochanan the Immerser, none, period, (for Messiah is not born of a woman). Likewise, if one will receive it, Yochana the Immerser is Eliyahu. And again, in the Textus Receptus version of Luke, Yeshua also states that of men having been born of women there had not arisen a greater prophet than Yochanan the Immerser:

Luke 7:28 KJV
28. For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

If therefore Yochanan the Immerser is the greatest of all the prophets out of men having been born of women then where are the writings of Yochanan the Immerser?

Luke 7:19-24 ~ Yochanan Eliyahu the Immerser, having been praying and writing in the Machaerus (http://www.bible-architecture.info/Machaerus.htm) Patmos-Prison of Herod during the Day Kuriake, (which acceptable Great Day of YHWH commences in Luke 4:17-21) calls unto him a certain duo of his talmidim and sends them unto the Master Yeshua, saying, Are you the one coming or should we watch for another? And the andres-men having approached Yeshua say unto him: Yochanan the Immerser has sent us unto you, saying, Are you the one coming or should we watch for another? And in that hour many were cured of diseases, and plagues, and evil spirits; and on many that were blind, sight was bestowed.

And Yeshua responding COMMANDS them:
Go forth, and announce to Yochanan what things you have seen and heard:

1) The blind see:
2) The lame walk:
3) The lepers are cleansed:
4) The deaf hear:
5) The dead are awakened:
6) To the poor the good news is proclaimed:
7) And blessed is he whosoever is not offended in me!

So the TWO ANGELON depart to Yochanan and announce to him all these things:
And Seven Thunders utter their voices . . .

Machaerus-Patmos Fortress Prison of Herod
http://www.bible-architecture.info/Machae3.jpg
Machaerus (http://www.bible-architecture.info/Machaerus.htm)

When Yochanan penned the words, "things which must shortly come to pass", he indeed meant them literally and immediately within the same Kuriaki-Day of YHWH that had commenced in Luke 4:17-21 according to the command of Messiah Yeshua the Commander of the Covenant. Yochanan likewise meant the same words truly in accordance with Torah commandments concerning such things as prophets and prophecy. And those things occurred first and foremost at Olivet Moriah Golgotha, and then afterwards to those who follow in the footsteps of Messiah, in Messiah, crucified with Messiah, each in his or her own appointed times which appointed times are appointed by the Father, (when a child becomes a son). :)

chrysostom
October 15th, 2015, 05:16 AM
things which must shortly come to pass

this makes sense
if
john the baptist wrote it

daqq
October 15th, 2015, 08:42 PM
this makes sense
if
john the baptist wrote it

Well he was after all "the half of the kingdom" right? Herod swore it by oath, (Mark 6:23, Herod quoting Ahasuerus-Xerxes, Esther 5:3, 5:6, 7:2) and why else would that old battle axe Herodias the queen desire the head of Yochanan Eliyahu be delivered on a pinaki writing tablet? (Matthew 14:8, 11, Mark 6:25, 28, Luke 1:63). Perhaps she wanted to know what else about her and her new hubby might be found in the "diary" of Yochanan? After all that is the very reason Herod seized him and shut him up in the prison, (for rebuking Herod over marrying his brother Philip's wife, Herodias).

Mark 9:13
13. But I say unto you, That Eliyahu is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they desired, as it is written of him.

Where is it written of Eliyahu that they would do unto him whatsoever they desired and karath-cut-off his head? Perhaps the priests are sometimes understood as Nashiym? Yes indeed, and of those born of nashiym there had arisen none greater than Yochanan!

Zechariah 14:1-2
1. Behold, the day of YHWH comes, and your spoil shall be divided in the midst of you.
2. For I will gather all nations against Yerushalaim to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the nashiym ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, (Yochanan is the half of the kingdom and holds it in his head) and the residue of the people shall not be karath-cut-off from the city.

Did Yochanan go into captivity? Yes, to the fortress prison of Herod at Macherus. Not long after, (at the blood moon) he was karath-beheaded-cut-off. This word karath is indeed used in multiple places for beheading, (1 Samuel 17:51, 1 Samuel 31:9, 2 Samuel 20:22) and likewise appears in Daniel 9:26 concerning the mashiyach anointed one therein, (but not the Nagiyd-Commander of the Covenant, Yeshua). :)

daqq
October 15th, 2015, 09:42 PM
By the way that passage from 2 Samuel 20:22, which was referenced in the previous post above, also pertains to your thread title:

2 Samuel 20:21-22 KJV
21. The matter is not so: but a man of mount Ephraim, Sheba the son of Bichri by name, hath lifted up his hand against the king, even against David: deliver him only, and I will depart from the city. And the woman said unto Joab, Behold, his head shall be thrown to thee over the wall.
22. Then the woman went unto all the people in her wisdom. And they cut off [karath] the head of Sheba the son of Bichri, and cast it out to Joab. And he blew a trumpet, And they retired from the city, every man to his tent. And Joab returned to Jerusalem unto the king.

They karath-cut-off the head of Sheba but his name means Seven. It is like a masculine typology of the queen of the south, (Sheba) but nevertheless the typology is along the same lines. The queen of the south rises up in the judgment according to the Testimony of Yeshua, (Matthew 12:42). At first it may seem like a marriage made in the heavens because her doctrines are so enticing and delightful. But by the end of the times knowledge has increased and one begins to understand that perhaps it has become more like a marriage as in the days of Noah: a great lioness given the heart of the man, a she-bear robbed of her cubs, a four headed leopardess, and a terrible seventh head with great iron teeth like swords and jaw teeth like knives. Who shall live when God does this? And when the Son of man comes will he find faith in your earth? Each in his or her own appointed times, (and none shall be alone in his appointed times). :chuckle:

chrysostom
November 5th, 2015, 06:32 AM
counting dynasties makes more sense
and
it fits

Wick Stick
November 5th, 2015, 11:19 AM
this is not prophecy?
so
what is this?

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass
I'm glad you asked.

There is a literary style called an apocryphon, which was used in Judaism and some of the mystery religions. An apocryphon is a book in which all the names and places have been changed, usually using a theme.

This is done so that a person found in possession of the apocryphon won't be arrested and executed when found in possession of literatury that, say... promotes sedition or accuses the current emperor of improprieties.

An apocalypse, then, is when someone initiated into the mysteries of the book sits down with an apocryphon, and explains what the symbols mean so that the average reader can understand the book's meaning.

In the case of The Apocalypse, there are a series of "visions" which act as the apocryphon (and which closely mirror Daniel). The apostle John is the one who is receiving the explanation thereof, and it is Jesus doing the 'splaining.

So basically, everything that John SEES ought to be interpreted, while a large portion of what is SAID to him, is literal. An example:

This needs interpretation:
1:12 And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks.

This IS the interpretation, so don't try to reinterpret it, as well:
1:20 The mystery of the ... seven golden candlesticks. The ... seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

When people get lost in Revelation, half the time it's because they are trying to interpret something literal as if it were figurative. The other half of the time, it's because they're trying to apply it to themselves in this day and age, which is not the place or age the book was written for.

Jarrod

chrysostom
November 19th, 2015, 06:36 AM
many are not supposed to understand

chrysostom
December 6th, 2015, 06:00 AM
can you count dynasties?

historians can

daqq
December 6th, 2015, 06:24 AM
can you count dynasties?

historians can

I thought this thread was for counting heads with blasphemous names?

1) Nbuwkadre'tsar (Hebrew) - Jeremiah 25:1
2) Nbuwkadre'tsowr (Hebrew) - Ezra 2:1, Jeremiah 49:28
3) Nbukadne'tsar (Hebrew) - 2 Kings 24:1, Daniel 2:1
4) Nbuwkadne'tsar (Hebrew) - 2 Kings 24:11, Jeremiah 27:6, Daniel 1:1
5) Nbuwkadnetsar (Hebrew) - Esther 2:6, Daniel 1:18
6) Nbuwkadnetsar (Aramaic) - Ezra 5:12, Daniel 2:28, Daniel 3:13
7) Nbukadnetsar (Aramaic) - Daniel 3:14
8) Nbuwkadre'tsar (Hebrew) - Ezekiel 29:18-21

First year of Nbuwkadre'tsar is Jeremiah 25:1

Jeremiah 25:1
1. The word that came to Jeremiah concerning all the people of Judah in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, that was the first year of Nbuwkadre'tsar king of Babylon:

Ezekiel concerning Tyre-Tyrus, (Tsowr) and Nbuwkadre'tsar:

Ezekiel 26:7
7. For thus says Adonay YHWH; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus, Nbuwkadre'tsar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.

Ezekiel 29:18-21
18. Son of man, Nbuwkadre'tsar king of Babylon caused his army to serve a great service against Tyrus: every head was made bald, and every shoulder was peeled: yet had he no wages, nor his army, for Tyrus, for the service that he had served against it:
19. Therefore thus says Adonay YHWH; Behold, I will give the land of Egypt unto Nbuwkadre'tsar king of Babylon; and he shall take her multitude, and take her spoil, and take her prey; and it shall be the wages for his army.
20. I have given him the land of Egypt for his labor wherewith he served against it, because they wrought for me, says Adonay YHWH.
21. In that day will I cause the horn of the house of Yisrael to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am YHWH.

And was it not already said in another of your threads how historicism is fallacy? When did Nebuchanezzar ever conquer Egypt and fulfill the things prophesied in the several above passages of Ezekiel? They were never fulfilled because clearly from a purely historical context Nebuchadnezzar never conquered Egypt. Therefore I said to you elsewhere: Nbuwkadre'tsar the terrible of the heathen is on his way, and the eighth is of the seven, the head-sum of the gold, O king, so that the words of God be fulfilled, (Rev 17:17). Perhaps in the afterglow of the aftermath days you will consider it perfectly, O king. :)

chrysostom
December 6th, 2015, 06:34 AM
I thought this thread was for counting heads with blasphemous names?

why did you think that?
the woman is a city
she is full of names of blasphemy

daqq
December 6th, 2015, 07:58 AM
why did you think that?
the woman is a city
she is full of names of blasphemy

The women are the cities are the covenants:

Galatians 4:22-27 KJV
22. For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband .

Yerushalaim of above is my mother covenant and this is Spirit. Those who see the covenant according to the flesh do not yet have a renewed covenant because they see all things according to the eyes and mind of the flesh carnal man, including the commandments of God and the covenant, as pertaining to physical meanings and physical things. They are therefore either in bondage to a physical understanding of the commandments; or they choose to completely "abolish" the Torah from their carnal minds, because they do not and cannot comprehend Torah as understood by and through the Spirit of the Testimony of Yeshua. It is the same old allegory of the same old war concerning the Spirit against the Flesh:

Horeb (Spirit) -vs- Sinai (Flesh)
Isaac (Spirit) -vs- Ishmael (Flesh)
Freewoman (Spirit) -vs- Bondwoman (Flesh)
Sarah (Spirit) -vs- Hagar (Egypt, "great of flesh", Eze 16:26 KJV)
Yerushalaim of above (Spirit) -vs- Yerushalaim of below ("the Flesh")

Also in the above passage Paul quotes from Isaiah 54:1 and its CONTEXT:

Isaiah 54:1-4 KJV
1. Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord [Gal 4:27].
2. Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3. For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
4. Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood [[I]the opposite of the woman of Rev 18:7] any more.

Note that all of the things written in Isaiah 54:2 pertain to the Mishkan-Tabernacle: "thy tent", "the curtains of thy habitations", "thy cords", "thy tent stakes", all these things clearly reveal from the context of Gal 4:22-27 that Paul speaks of the Desert Tabernacle as our mother, that is, our mother covenant by the allegory from the passage. Therefore the women are the cities are the covenants. Yea, and when it pleased Elohim, who separated me from the womb of my mother, and called me by His grace, to reveal His Son in me, immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: and from a babe have I known the holy scriptures. :chuckle:

patrick jane
December 6th, 2015, 08:06 AM
I strongly suggest that everyone read Daqq's posts. The man has a handle on scripture, Old and New Testament. I dare to say, genius. Plus, he seems like a nice guy.

daqq
December 6th, 2015, 09:07 AM
I strongly suggest that everyone read Daqq's posts. The man has a handle on scripture, Old and New Testament. I dare to say, genius. Plus, he seems like a nice guy.

Friend, believe the words of Yeshua which I quote below, and do not fear to enter into the waters of the Word of Torah, Prophets, and Writings; for you will not "fall from grace" if you enter in with a repentant heart, and in prayer, so long as you continue in the Spirit of the Testimony of Yeshua, and so long as you do not seek to justify yourself by the law:

Matthew 13:51-52
51. Yeshua says unto them, Have you understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Master.
52. Then he says unto them: Therefore every scribe which is discipled unto the kingdom of the heavens is like unto a man that is an householder who brings forth out of his thesauros-treasury things new and old.

Therefore, in the context of the above statement, all of the parables of Matthew 13 pertain to both the "old", (covenant) and the "new", (covenant). And therefore the parables of Messiah expound the Torah, the Prophets, and the Writings, and the "new" is the "old" as it is understood through the "lenses" of the parables, allegories, doctrines, idioms, and sayings of Messiah Yeshua. I have no wisdom of my own. :)

OCTOBER23
December 6th, 2015, 09:20 AM
I think that Chrys is finally understanding his bible.

Right Divider
December 6th, 2015, 09:34 AM
many are not supposed to understand
You're one of them.

Right Divider
December 6th, 2015, 09:35 AM
can you count dynasties?

historians can
Keep up the good work Mr. Illogical.

OCTOBER23
December 6th, 2015, 09:58 AM
Daqq,

So, basically

Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

---------------------------------------
Leviticus 19:20 And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free.

RBBI
December 6th, 2015, 10:23 AM
Friend, believe the words of Yeshua which I quote below, and do not fear to enter into the waters of the Word of Torah, Prophets, and Writings; for you will not "fall from grace" if you enter in with a repentant heart, and in prayer, so long as you continue in the Spirit of the Testimony of Yeshua, and so long as you do not seek to justify yourself by the law:

Matthew 13:51-52
51. Yeshua says unto them, Have you understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Master.
52. Then he says unto them: Therefore every scribe which is discipled unto the kingdom of the heavens is like unto a man that is an householder who brings forth out of his thesauros-treasury things new and old.

Therefore, in the context of the above statement, all of the parables of Matthew 13 pertain to both the "old", (covenant) and the "new", (covenant). And therefore the parables of Messiah expound the Torah, the Prophets, and the Writings, and the "new" is the "old" as it is understood through the "lenses" of the parables, allegories, doctrines, idioms, and sayings of Messiah Yeshua. I have no wisdom of my own. :)

It's amazing what you've posted in this thread, yet you must have ears to hear to receive it. Don't stop sharing. :)

Right Divider
December 6th, 2015, 11:20 AM
It's amazing what you've posted in this thread, yet you must have ears to hear to receive it. Don't stop sharing. :)
So the minister of the circumcision ministered to the circumcision? I'm stunned.
Rom 15:8-12 KJV Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: (9) And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. (10) And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people. (11) And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people. (12) And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.Later in the same passage, Paul explains some things about his ministry:
Rom 15:16-21 KJV That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. (17) I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. (18) For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, (19) Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. (20) Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation: (21) But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.
Paul was careful NOT to build on "another man's foundation" and yet he ALSO says that he laid the foundation:
1Co 3:10-11 KJV According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. (11) For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. How can this be? TWO foundations laid and YET there is ONLY ONE foundation.

daqq
December 6th, 2015, 11:27 AM
why did you think that?
the woman is a city
she is full of names of blasphemy


Daqq,

So, basically

Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

---------------------------------------
Leviticus 19:20 And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free.


It's amazing what you've posted in this thread, yet you must have ears to hear to receive it. Don't stop sharing. :)

The reason I posted this:


I thought this thread was for counting heads with blasphemous names?

1) Nbuwkadre'tsar (Hebrew) - Jeremiah 25:1
2) Nbuwkadre'tsowr (Hebrew) - Ezra 2:1, Jeremiah 49:28
3) Nbukadne'tsar (Hebrew) - 2 Kings 24:1, Daniel 2:1
4) Nbuwkadne'tsar (Hebrew) - 2 Kings 24:11, Jeremiah 27:6, Daniel 1:1
5) Nbuwkadnetsar (Hebrew) - Esther 2:6, Daniel 1:18
6) Nbuwkadnetsar (Aramaic) - Ezra 5:12, Daniel 2:28, Daniel 3:13
7) Nbukadnetsar (Aramaic) - Daniel 3:14
8) Nbuwkadre'tsar (Hebrew) - Ezekiel 29:18-21

First year of Nbuwkadre'tsar is Jeremiah 25:1

Jeremiah 25:1
1. The word that came to Jeremiah concerning all the people of Judah in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, that was the first year of Nbuwkadre'tsar king of Babylon:

Ezekiel concerning Tyre-Tyrus, (Tsowr) and Nbuwkadre'tsar:

Ezekiel 26:7
7. For thus says Adonay YHWH; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus, Nbuwkadre'tsar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.

Ezekiel 29:18-21
18. Son of man, Nbuwkadre'tsar king of Babylon caused his army to serve a great service against Tyrus: every head was made bald, and every shoulder was peeled: yet had he no wages, nor his army, for Tyrus, for the service that he had served against it:
19. Therefore thus says Adonay YHWH; Behold, I will give the land of Egypt unto Nbuwkadre'tsar king of Babylon; and he shall take her multitude, and take her spoil, and take her prey; and it shall be the wages for his army.
20. I have given him the land of Egypt for his labor wherewith he served against it, because they wrought for me, says Adonay YHWH.
21. In that day will I cause the horn of the house of Yisrael to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am YHWH.

And was it not already said in another of your threads how historicism is fallacy? When did Nebuchanezzar ever conquer Egypt and fulfill the things prophesied in the several above passages of Ezekiel? They were never fulfilled because clearly from a purely historical context Nebuchadnezzar never conquered Egypt. Therefore I said to you elsewhere: Nbuwkadre'tsar the terrible of the heathen is on his way, and the eighth is of the seven, the head-sum of the gold, O king, so that the words of God be fulfilled, (Rev 17:17). Perhaps in the afterglow of the aftermath days you will consider it perfectly, O king. :)

Is because the scripture says this:

Revelation 13:1 KJV
1. And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Revelation 13:1 ASV
1. and he stood upon the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns, and seven heads, and on his horns ten diadems, and upon his heads names of blasphemy.

As one may see it really does not matter whether the Prophet says "names of blasphemy", (plural, ASV) or "name of blasphemy", (singular, KJV) because all seven names are the same name only with slightly different variant spellings. And truly it is a blasphemous name because it means "Nebu protects the/my boundary", (see Thayers definition). The "boundary" of a man is likewise symbolized in the number six hundred as well because the outer portion of the Ezekiel Temple, the "profane-commons area" outside the wall of the Temple, is fifty cubits roundabout. This means the profane area adds fifty cubits to each end of the side measurements of five hundred for a total of six hundred cubits for each of the four side measurements of the square. The wall itself is five hundred cubits roundabout and therefore the profane area measures out at six hundred cubits roundabout, (which is "the flesh" in the symbolism of the body-temple of the man because the Ezekiel Temple is the Temple of a man, that is, the man Yeshua Messiah). In the Old Greek Septuagint version of Daniel 3:1 king Nebuchadnezzar sets up the image of gold in this exact place, immediately outside the wall of Babylon, that is, in the "rampart" common area which lies roundabout the outer wall of the city of Babylon. The symbolic number of this area is six hundred. Thus king Nebuchadnezzar himself, whom the Prophet Daniel says is the head-sum of the gold, (for resh/ro'sh not only means the head but the sum) has the number which is six hundred, sixty, and six: for those are the measures from Daniel 3:1 if the measurement of six hundred from the outer boundary commons-profane is understood from the Ezekiel Temple measurements. Likewise in the Ezekiel Temple the gates are sixty cubits high, (enter by the narrow gate) and the wall itself is a reed which is six cubits by the cubit and the handbreadth. The number of the man, Nebuchadrezzar, is six hundred, sixty, and six:

Daniel 3:1 Septuagint Old Greek
1. ετους οκτωκαιδεκατου ναβουχοδονοσορ βασιλευς διοικων πολεις και χωρας και παντας τους κατοικουντας επι της γης απο ινδικης εως αιθιοπιας εποιησεν εικονα χρυσην το υψος αυτης πηχων εξηκοντα και το πλατος αυτης πηχων εξ και εστησεν αυτην εν πεδιω του περιβολου χωρας βαβυλωνιας

Daniel 3:1 Septuagint Old Greek Translation
3. The eighteenth year of the administration of king Nebuchadnezzar over cities, and territories, and all the permanent dwellers upon the earth from India to Ethiopia, [Ethiopia near the Philistines, Gaza, and Arabia, 2 Chr 21:16, Acts 8:26-27] he made an image of gold: the height of it sixty cubits, and the breadth of it six cubits, and he stood it in the field of the rampart-wall-roundabout [symbolic six hundred cubits] the territory of Babylon.

However the symbolic number of six hundred could not be written into this passage because the city of Babylon was clearly much greater in the circumference of its outer perimeter wall. Therefore the number is left out and explained in the Ezekiel Temple which is also the Temple of a Man. Again this symbolism is portrayed in that king David gave for the whole threshing floor of Ornan six hundred shekels of gold by weight, (1 Chr 21:25) and this represents the total area including the fifty cubit roundabout "commons-profane" area immediately outside the outer wall in the Ezekiel Temple measurements. :)

False Prophet
December 6th, 2015, 01:59 PM
9 “You need a wise mind to understand this. The seven heads on the beast are seven mountains where the woman sits.
The seven heads are seven mountains or the seven hills of Rome.

daqq
December 6th, 2015, 03:02 PM
9 “You need a wise mind to understand this. The seven heads on the beast are seven mountains where the woman sits.
The seven heads are seven mountains or the seven hills of Rome.

Who is wise but he that has the Testimony of Yeshua?
The devils are likened unto "evil mountains" in the doctrine of Yeshua:

Revelation 19:10 KJV
10. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.


Revelation 19:10 YLT
10. and I fell before his feet, to bow before him, and he saith to me, 'See - not! fellow servant of thee am I, and of thy brethren, those having the testimony of Jesus; bow before God, for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of the prophecy.'


Matthew 17:18-21 KJV
18. And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
19. Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
20. And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
21. Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

Deuteronomy 7:1-6 KJV
1. When the Lord thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
2. And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
3. Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
4. For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the Lord be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
5. But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.
6. For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

This kind of "marriage" is not the kind which may be witnessed with the eyes of the flesh; it is a "marriage" like as in the days of Noah, (or the Queen of the South, Sheba-Seven) and every devil has its doctrine: seven mountains of the heathen-nations of the Land. The same was true of the duo of the Gergesenos in Matthew 8:28, (possessed of the Girgashite-heathen-devils).

chrysostom
December 7th, 2015, 07:11 AM
9 “You need a wise mind to understand this. The seven heads on the beast are seven mountains where the woman sits.
The seven heads are seven mountains or the seven hills of Rome.

everyone knew rome had seven hills
so
how is that a mystery?

daqq
December 7th, 2015, 08:07 AM
So the minister of the circumcision ministered to the circumcision? I'm stunned.

Rom 15:8-12 KJV Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: (9) And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. (10) And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people. (11) And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people. (12) And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.
Later in the same passage, Paul explains some things about his ministry:

Rom 15:16-21 KJV That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. (17) I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. (18) For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, (19) Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. (20) Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation: (21) But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.
Paul was careful NOT to build on "another man's foundation" and yet he ALSO says that he laid the foundation:

1Co 3:10-11 KJV According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. (11) For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
How can this be? TWO foundations laid and YET there is ONLY ONE foundation.

Paul tells us that his foundation is Messiah, and Messiah is the Memra-Logos-Word, (ALL of it from the beginning). Also Messiah HAS BECOME the Minister of the circumcision, (not "was") just as Messiah is the new eternal Mediator and Nagiyd-Commander of the Covenant having become the final and eternal High Priest after the order of Melki-Tzedek. Even the NKJV disputes the old KJV rendering, (Romans 15:8 NKJV).

Romans 15:8 ASV
8. For I say that Christ hath been made a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, that he might confirm the promises given unto the fathers,

Romans 15:8 YLT (Young's Literal Bble)
8. And I say Jesus Christ to have become a ministrant of circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises to the fathers,


Paul was careful NOT to build on "another man's foundation" and yet he ALSO says that he laid the foundation:

1Co 3:10-11 KJV According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. (11) For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
How can this be? TWO foundations laid and YET there is ONLY ONE foundation.

Have you ever noticed that Paul only writes to seven congregations after the pattern of Revelation of Messiah Yeshua? It is a body-temple template hidden in the parables, doctrines, idioms, and sayings of Yeshua: right eye, left eye, right arm and hand, left arm and hand, right leg and foot, left leg and foot: if your right eye offends you, remove his lamp, for the eye is the lamp which lights the inside of the body-temple of the man: if therefore your eye be single, your whole body shall be full of light. But if your eye be evil, your whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you be darkness, how great is that darkness! And of course there is that little horn member, the tongue, which is the seat and throne of the Adversary and boasts great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindles; the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defiles the whole body, and lights on fire the course of nature, and it is set on fire of Gehenna. For every genos of beast, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and has been tamed by man: but the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. And the forked double tongue has a baal of two horns like a lamb that speaks like a dragon. :chuckle:

patrick jane
December 7th, 2015, 08:19 AM
Paul tells us that his foundation is Messiah

Was - Has Become - No difference

patrick jane
December 7th, 2015, 08:22 AM
Friend, believe the words of Yeshua which I quote below, and do not fear to enter into the waters of the Word of Torah, Prophets, and Writings; for you will not "fall from grace" if you enter in with a repentant heart, and in prayer, so long as you continue in the Spirit of the Testimony of Yeshua, and so long as you do not seek to justify yourself by the law:

Matthew 13:51-52
51. Yeshua says unto them, Have you understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Master.
52. Then he says unto them: Therefore every scribe which is discipled unto the kingdom of the heavens is like unto a man that is an householder who brings forth out of his thesauros-treasury things new and old.

Therefore, in the context of the above statement, all of the parables of Matthew 13 pertain to both the "old", (covenant) and the "new", (covenant). And therefore the parables of Messiah expound the Torah, the Prophets, and the Writings, and the "new" is the "old" as it is understood through the "lenses" of the parables, allegories, doctrines, idioms, and sayings of Messiah Yeshua. I have no wisdom of my own. :)

Genius again. We need more unto your fashion

patrick jane
December 7th, 2015, 09:02 AM
8 Heads In A Duffle Bag

daqq
December 7th, 2015, 09:17 AM
8 Heads In A Duffle Bag

Haha, I remember that post from early on in this thread. And when the eighth returns from the dry-arid places of the desert, like a nomad wanderer back from the erets-outer-boundaries of the land of Nod-wanderings, he leagues unto himself all seven of the wicked rulers of the dominion and brings them with him, (Daniel 3:2 KJV, Matthew 12:43-45, Luke 11:24-26) and the last state of the man is worse than the first. So shall it be in the fourth generation of the first age of the man, (each in his or her own appointed times, and no man knows the day or the hour, and none shall be alone in his appointed times). :)

EDIT ~

Like so:

Daniel 3:2-3
2. Then Nebuchadnezzar the king sent to gather together the princes, [1] the governors, [2] and the captains, [3] the judges, [4] the treasurers, [5] the counsellers, [6] the sheriffs, [7] even all the rulers of the provinces, [8] to come to the dedication of the image which Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up.
3. Then the princes, [1] the governors, [2] and the captains, [3] the judges, [4] the treasurers, [5] the counsellers, [6] the sheriffs, [7] even all the rulers of the provinces, [8] were gathered together unto the dedication of the image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up; and they stood before the image that Nebuchadnezzar had set up.

Right Divider
December 7th, 2015, 07:47 PM
Paul tells us that his foundation is Messiah, and Messiah is the Memra-Logos-Word, (ALL of it from the beginning). Also Messiah HAS BECOME the Minister of the circumcision, (not "was") just as Messiah is the new eternal Mediator and Nagiyd-Commander of the Covenant having become the final and eternal High Priest after the order of Melki-Tzedek. Even the NKJV disputes the old KJV rendering, (Romans 15:8 NKJV).

Romans 15:8 ASV
8. For I say that Christ hath been made a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, that he might confirm the promises given unto the fathers,

Romans 15:8 YLT (Young's Literal Bble)
8. And I say Jesus Christ to have become a ministrant of circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises to the fathers,

The POINT is the same either way, Mr. BibleCorrector.

When Jesus Christ was on earth, He was "a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:".

The RISEN and GLORIFIED Jesus Christ gave Paul MORE and DIFFERENT revelation. Paul points this out over and over again. Most people simply ignore or reject it.

Yes, Jesus Christ is the foundation of BOTH the KINGDOM and the BODY. Paul made sure that HE did NOT build upon the KINGDOM by striving "to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:"

If you can't understand how Paul could "lay the foundation" and yet Jesus Christ is the foundation.
1Co 3:10-11 KJV According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. (11) For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
And yet there was ALREADY a foundation on which Paul made SURE NOT TO BUILD UPON.

Once you can understand that, you have a chance.


Have you ever noticed that Paul only writes to seven congregations after the pattern of Revelation of Messiah Yeshua? It is a body-temple template hidden in the parables, doctrines, idioms, and sayings of Yeshua: right eye, left eye, right arm and hand, left arm and hand, right leg and foot, left leg and foot: if your right eye offends you, remove his lamp, for the eye is the lamp which lights the inside of the body-temple of the man: if therefore your eye be single, your whole body shall be full of light. But if your eye be evil, your whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you be darkness, how great is that darkness! And of course there is that little horn member, the tongue, which is the seat and throne of the Adversary and boasts great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindles; the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defiles the whole body, and lights on fire the course of nature, and it is set on fire of Gehenna. For every genos of beast, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and has been tamed by man: but the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. And the forked double tongue has a baal of two horns like a lamb that speaks like a dragon. :chuckle:Gobbledygook.

daqq
December 8th, 2015, 06:39 AM
The POINT is the same either way, Mr. BibleCorrector.

When Jesus Christ was on earth, He was "a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:".

The RISEN and GLORIFIED Jesus Christ gave Paul MORE and DIFFERENT revelation. Paul points this out over and over again. Most people simply ignore or reject it.

Yes, Jesus Christ is the foundation of BOTH the KINGDOM and the BODY. Paul made sure that HE did NOT build upon the KINGDOM by striving "to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:"

If you can't understand how Paul could "lay the foundation" and yet Jesus Christ is the foundation.

1Co 3:10-11 KJV According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. (11) For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
And yet there was ALREADY a foundation on which Paul made SURE NOT TO BUILD UPON.

Once you can understand that, you have a chance.

Gobbledygook.

Speak for yourself, but to others it is not the same, and it is important, if you think it does not matter go back and talk to some of your other friends like Heir who neg-repped me for presenting the same thing from the scripture which was just said to you because it interfered with her hardcore dispensationalist paradigm. Yeshua HAS BECOME or HAS BEEN MADE the Minister of the circumcision, (not "was a minister"). When people such as yourself are carving out imaginary dispensations for yourselves and drawing divisionary datum lines at Golgotha and Shavuot such minute things are necessary to refute your various heresies. Did I make it into a more evil section of your signature yet? :crackup:

:sheep:

daqq
December 8th, 2015, 07:53 AM
Originally Posted by Right Divider http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/images/bluesaint/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4543992#post4543992)
Very confused: Squeaky, God's Truth, Jason0047, Redeemed-777, Rightglory, DansingWall, Nang, glew, wordsponge, Princely, jerzy, elohiym, PneumaPsucheSoma, kayaker, IMJerusha, drws, Cross Reference, republicanchick, Arsenios, Hawkins, Puppet, rougueone, Dan Emanual, StanJ, Interplanner, Sancocho, Shasta, Cruciform, Robert Pate, Nazaroo, Livelystone, fzappa13, iamaberean, disturbo, Timotheos, daqq, brewmama, False Prophet, themuzicman

Totally bonkers: Gurucam, CherubRam, LoverOfTruth1, Wednesday Addams, chrysostom, beloved57

Complete perverter of scripture: tetelestai

Christ deniers: Lazy afternoon, meshak, oatmeal, Caino, JosephR, freelight, csuguy, 1Mind1Spirit, genuineoriginal, Jamie, Aner, KingdomRose, ZacharyB

Christ haters: aikido7, Zeke, Ben Masada

Immensely confused and proud of it: turbosixx

Right Divider: Prizziy-Perizzite-Divider in the Land

And the Perizzite-Dividers are "Giants", born of the Rapha, Rephaim:

Genesis 13:7-10
7. And there was a strife between the herdmen of Abram's cattle and the herdmen of Lot's cattle: and the Canaanite and the Perizzite-Divider [Prizziy] dwelled then in the Land.
8. And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we be brethren.
9. Is not the whole land before thee? separate thyself, [parad] I pray thee, from me: if thou wilt take the left hand, then I will go to the right; or if thou depart to the right hand, then I will go to the left.
10. And Lot lifted up his eyes, and beheld all the plain of Jordan, that it was well watered every where, before the Lord destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, even as the garden of the Lord, like the land of Egypt, as thou comest unto Zoar.

Genesis 15:20
20. And the Hittite, and the Prizziy-Perizzite, and the Rephaim:

Joshua 17:15-18
15. And Yhoshua answered them, If thou be a great people, then get thee up to the wood country, and cut down for thyself there in the land of the Prizziy-Perizzite and the Rephaim, if mount Ephraim be too narrow for thee.
16. And the children of Yoseph said, The hill is not enough for us: and all the Canaanites that dwell in the land of the valley have chariots of iron, both they who are of Beth Shean and her towns, and they who are of the valley of Yizreel.
17. And Yhoshua spoke unto the house of Yoseph, even to Ephraim and to Manasseh, saying, Thou art a great people, and hast great power: thou shalt not have one lot only:
18. But the mountain shall be thine; for it is a wood, and thou shalt cut it down: and the outgoings of it shall be thine: for thou shalt drive out the Canaanites, though they have iron chariots, and though they be strong.

Original Strong's Hebrew Ref. #6522
Romanized Prizziy
Pronounced per-iz-zee'
for HSN6521; inhabitant of the open country; a Perizzite, one of the Canaanitish tribes:
KJV--Perizzite.

Original Strong's Hebrew Ref. #6521
Romanized praziy
Pronounced per-aw-zee'
or prowziy {per-o-zee'}; from HSN6519; a rustic:
KJV--village.

Original Strong's Hebrew Ref. #6519
Romanized prazah
Pronounced per-aw-zaw'
from the same as HSN6518; an open country:
KJV--(unwalled) town (without walls), unwalled village.

Original Strong's Hebrew Ref. #6518
Romanized paraz
Pronounced paw-rawz'
from an unused root meaning to separate, i.e. decide; a chieftain:
KJV--village.

Original Strong's Greek Ref. #139
Romanized hairesis
Pronounced hah'-ee-res-is
from GSN0138; properly, a choice, i.e. (specially) a party or (abstractly) disunion:
KJV--heresy [which is the Greek word itself], sect.

Original Strong's Greek Ref. #141
Romanized hairetikos
Pronounced hahee-ret-ee-kos'
from the same as GSN0140; a schismatic:
KJV--heretic [the Greek word itself].

Poor, poor, "Right Divider", because he cared not to heed the Testimony of Torah, the Testimony of the Prophets, and the Testimony of the Writings, all in the Light of the Testimony of Yeshua, now the "unwalled villages" in the outlands of his badlands are overrun with Perizzite-Dividers and hairetikos: Mene, Mene, Tekel, uw-PARCIYN-(Perac). :crackup:

:sheep:

OCTOBER23
December 8th, 2015, 07:40 PM
DAQQ,

NICE CUT AND PASTE

EDIT ~

Right Divider
December 8th, 2015, 07:59 PM
Speak for yourself, but to others it is not the same, and it is important, if you think it does not matter go back and talk to some of your other friends like Heir who neg-repped me for presenting the same thing from the scripture which was just said to you because it interfered with her hardcore dispensationalist paradigm. Yeshua HAS BECOME or HAS BEEN MADE the Minister of the circumcision, (not "was a minister"). When people such as yourself are carving out imaginary dispensations for yourselves and drawing divisionary datum lines at Golgotha and Shavuot such minute things are necessary to refute your various heresies. Did I make it into a more evil section of your signature yet? :crackup:

:sheep:
Jesus was or became, which ever you like, a MINISTER OF THE CIRCUMCISION to confirm the promises made to the fathers.

I guess that is too hard for you to understand.

You, very quickly (maybe a new record time), made the very confused list.

Right Divider
December 8th, 2015, 08:00 PM
Right Divider: Prizziy-Perizzite-Divider in the Land

And the Perizzite-Dividers are "Giants", born of the Rapha, Rephaim:

Genesis 13:7-10
7. And there was a strife between the herdmen of Abram's cattle and the herdmen of Lot's cattle: and the Canaanite and the Perizzite-Divider [Prizziy] dwelled then in the Land.
8. And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we be brethren.
9. Is not the whole land before thee? separate thyself, [parad] I pray thee, from me: if thou wilt take the left hand, then I will go to the right; or if thou depart to the right hand, then I will go to the left.
10. And Lot lifted up his eyes, and beheld all the plain of Jordan, that it was well watered every where, before the Lord destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, even as the garden of the Lord, like the land of Egypt, as thou comest unto Zoar.

Genesis 15:20
20. And the Hittite, and the Prizziy-Perizzite, and the Rephaim:

Joshua 17:15-18
15. And Yhoshua answered them, If thou be a great people, then get thee up to the wood country, and cut down for thyself there in the land of the Prizziy-Perizzite and the Rephaim, if mount Ephraim be too narrow for thee.
16. And the children of Yoseph said, The hill is not enough for us: and all the Canaanites that dwell in the land of the valley have chariots of iron, both they who are of Beth Shean and her towns, and they who are of the valley of Yizreel.
17. And Yhoshua spoke unto the house of Yoseph, even to Ephraim and to Manasseh, saying, Thou art a great people, and hast great power: thou shalt not have one lot only:
18. But the mountain shall be thine; for it is a wood, and thou shalt cut it down: and the outgoings of it shall be thine: for thou shalt drive out the Canaanites, though they have iron chariots, and though they be strong.

Original Strong's Hebrew Ref. #6522
Romanized Prizziy
Pronounced per-iz-zee'
for HSN6521; inhabitant of the open country; a Perizzite, one of the Canaanitish tribes:
KJV--Perizzite.

Original Strong's Hebrew Ref. #6521
Romanized praziy
Pronounced per-aw-zee'
or prowziy {per-o-zee'}; from HSN6519; a rustic:
KJV--village.

Original Strong's Hebrew Ref. #6519
Romanized prazah
Pronounced per-aw-zaw'
from the same as HSN6518; an open country:
KJV--(unwalled) town (without walls), unwalled village.

Original Strong's Hebrew Ref. #6518
Romanized paraz
Pronounced paw-rawz'
from an unused root meaning to separate, i.e. decide; a chieftain:
KJV--village.

Original Strong's Greek Ref. #139
Romanized hairesis
Pronounced hah'-ee-res-is
from GSN0138; properly, a choice, i.e. (specially) a party or (abstractly) disunion:
KJV--heresy [which is the Greek word itself], sect.

Original Strong's Greek Ref. #141
Romanized hairetikos
Pronounced hahee-ret-ee-kos'
from the same as GSN0140; a schismatic:
KJV--heretic [the Greek word itself].

Poor, poor, "Right Divider", because he cared not to heed the Testimony of Torah, the Testimony of the Prophets, and the Testimony of the Writings, all in the Light of the Testimony of Yeshua, now the "unwalled villages" in the outlands of his badlands are overrun with Perizzite-Dividers and hairetikos: Mene, Mene, Tekel, uw-PARCIYN-(Perac). :crackup:

:sheep:
I believe ALL of God's Word.... You should too.

daqq
December 8th, 2015, 08:46 PM
DAQQ,

NICE CUT AND PASTE

EDIT ~

Are you not by default insinuating that when you have four or five definitions you want to post you manually type them all out? Why would anyone do such a thing when the chances of error are so greatly increased?


Jesus was or became, which ever you like, a MINISTER OF THE CIRCUMCISION to confirm the promises made to the fathers.

I guess that is too hard for you to understand.

You, very quickly (maybe a new record time), made the very confused list.

I understand it according to what was quoted from the scriptures that were already posted. Messiah also HAS BECOME High Priest after the order of Melki-Tzedek. Messiah also HAS BECOME the new Mediator of the Covenant whose blood speaks better things than that of Abel. When you say "was" in the past tense you pervert the truth because it clearly is not the same to anyone of the hardcore dispensationalist mindset. If you want to bury your head in the sand over it what is that to me?


I believe ALL of God's Word.... You should too.

So do I, however, I do not pick and choose then turn and pit the scripture against itself so as to nullify what I do not like, as you do, which is why your judgment of others places you under judgment, under the Torah, and under the Prophets, according to the clear emphatic undeniable Testimony of Yeshua:

Matthew 7:1-12 KJV
1. Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4. Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5. Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
6. Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
7. Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8. For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
9. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10. Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11. If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
12. Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Do you not know what it means that Yeshua has become the Minister of circumcision? Circumcision is of the heart just as surely Moses wrote first, (Deuteronomy 10:16 KJV, Deuteronomy 30:6 KJV) and then likewise Paul. There is but one decree for you and it does not come from myself, 430+430+430, (1290) and let seven times pass over him, and the fourth beast, (1260) will be the one who tears away that chestplate of iron you have for a caul upon your heart, (Hosea 13:7-8 KJV). And Zerubbabel himself will be the one to remove that head stone of a heart you have so that indeed it may be circumcised. There will be shoutings, "Grace, grace to him!" (if indeed you overcome in your hour of power, O king of seven kings). You have no clue about grace and neither will you until you die, (the way Yeshua and the Prophets mean it). :crackup:

:sheep:

Right Divider
December 8th, 2015, 10:11 PM
I understand it according to what was quoted from the scriptures that were already posted. Messiah also HAS BECOME High Priest after the order of Melki-Tzedek. Messiah also HAS BECOME the new Mediator of the Covenant whose blood speaks better things than that of Abel. When you say "was" in the past tense you pervert the truth because it clearly is not the same to anyone of the hardcore dispensationalist mindset. If you want to bury your head in the sand over it what is that to me?

I simply quoted the Bible, you're the one that needed to "correct" it.

The Messiah came to His people and He will again. During HIS time on earth, Romans 15:8.

The dispensation of the grace of God is were God is NOT dealing with people based on their relation to His earthly people, Israel.

But folks like you are too wrapped up in your "story" to understand the truth.
2Co 5:14-21 KJV For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: (15) And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. (16) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. (17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (18) And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; (19) To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. (20) Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. (21) For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Funny that PAUL would say, "though WE have known Christ after the flesh", seeing as how PAUL NEVER DID.


So do I, however, I do not pick and choose then turn and pit the scripture against itself so as to nullify what I do not like, as you do, which is why your judgment of others places you under judgment, under the Torah, and under the Prophets, according to the clear emphatic undeniable Testimony of Yeshua:

Matthew 7:1-12 KJV
1. Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Joh 7:24 KJV Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Quite the contrary Mr. BibleCorrector. I have kept everything in the Bible in its proper context, unlike yourself.

Do you not know what it means that Yeshua has become the Minister of circumcision? Circumcision is of the heart just as surely Moses wrote first, (Deuteronomy 10:16 KJV, Deuteronomy 30:6 KJV) and then likewise Paul. There is but one decree for you and it does not come from myself, 430+430+430, (1290) and let seven times pass over him, and the fourth beast, (1260) will be the one who tears away that chestplate of iron you have for a caul upon your heart, (Hosea 13:7-8 KJV). And Zerubbabel himself will be the one to remove that head stone of a heart you have so that indeed it may be circumcised. There will be shoutings, "Grace, grace to him!" (if indeed you overcome in your hour of power, O king of seven kings). You have no clue about grace and neither will you until you die, (the way Yeshua and the Prophets mean it). :crackup:

:sheep:[/QUOTE]

Yes, no doubt that was what God meant through Paul, NOT!

This is what God meant through Paul:
Mat 15:24 KJV But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

1Mind1Spirit
December 9th, 2015, 12:16 AM
Do you not know what it means that Yeshua has become the Minister of circumcision? Circumcision is of the heart just as surely Moses wrote first, (Deuteronomy 10:16 KJV, Deuteronomy 30:6 KJV) and then likewise Paul. There is but one decree for you and it does not come from myself, 430+430+430, (1290) and let seven times pass over him, and the fourth beast, (1260) will be the one who tears away that chestplate of iron you have for a caul upon your heart, (Hosea 13:7-8 KJV). And Zerubbabel himself will be the one to remove that head stone of a heart you have so that indeed it may be circumcised. There will be shoutings, "Grace, grace to him!" (if indeed you overcome in your hour of power, O king of seven kings). You have no clue about grace and neither will you until you die, (the way Yeshua and the Prophets mean it). :crackup:

:sheep:

Some folks never see it until literal death.

I've seen the cold die and become enlightened before their last breath.

I have no idea what's in store for the lukewarm deceived.:think:

fzappa13
December 9th, 2015, 02:28 AM
the seven heads

the seven heads are the seven dynasties of the Roman Empire

Julio-Claudian dynasty 68
Flavian dynasty 96
Adoptive and Antonine Emperors 192
House of Severus 235
Tetrarchy and the House of Constantine 364
House of Valentinian 455
Family of Leo I the Great 476

many have been counting the kings

not many understand that there were seven dynasties
but
the historians are the ones who determined this when they came up with the Byzantine Empire to separate the eastern Roman empire from the western one

isaac newton agrees they are dynasties (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4434546#post4434546)

back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

Dude, Isaac Newton predicted Jesus to have returned by now.

daqq
December 9th, 2015, 09:34 AM
Funny that PAUL would say, "though WE have known Christ after the flesh", seeing as how PAUL NEVER DID.

If you would at least believe Paul and begin to walk according to the Spirit of the Testimony of Yeshua then perhaps you would begin to understand. Two of your anthropon-man faced countenances must breathe out their last, (Zec 13:7-9, Mat 26:31) and it is you who are required to do the will of Elohim and at least begin to cut them off. Simon, Simon, Petros, Kephas, and absolutely no way is Paulos going to stand up in front of the whole congregation and rebuke another literal physical human being and especially not the one who received three commissions from the Master and is the leader of the congregation at Jerusalem chosen by the Captain of the Host, (as you and your flesh minded friends like to imagine). Paul says he preached to all the Jews first throughout all Judea, Peter says that God had shown him that the Gentiles should hear the good news gospel by his mouth. Paul says he has known Messiah after the flesh. You are all mixed up because of your physical mindset: Kephas is the only one that was rebuked and it was by Petros-Paulos the little. :crackup:


Some folks never see it until literal death.

I've seen the cold die and become enlightened before their last breath.

I have no idea what's in store for the lukewarm deceived.:think:

Perhaps the lukewarm get set on fire when they get spewed out? One way or another we are all going to go through the fiery trials of the faithful. But the Father always brings His people through the fire: it is the Amorites, Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Jebusites, Girgashites, and Evite fleshmongers, that get left behind in the dross. :)

Wick Stick
December 9th, 2015, 10:05 AM
Dude, Isaac Newton predicted Jesus to have returned by now.
And he created Calculus. Now that right there is proof positive that he was evil.

Jarrod

daqq
December 9th, 2015, 03:12 PM
I simply quoted the Bible, you're the one that needed to "correct" it.

Quite the contrary Mr. BibleCorrector. I have kept everything in the Bible in its proper context, unlike yourself.

"BibleCorrector" is nothing more than a "KJV Only" tool used by the likes of yourself and your associate Heir who also likes to use the same taunt against those who do not accept your KJV Only buffoonery. The "New Testament/Covenant" is written in Greek, not Ye olde king James English: better to believe what is actually written in the original languages than to put all of your trust in king Jimmy and his court. If you are going to continue perverting the Scripture someone needs to correct your perversions. What you call the Bible is full of errors because you put all of your trust into one English translation that has already clearly been shown to be erroneous. It is not the Bible that I corrected but rather your spurious rendering that other translators have corrected in their versions of the Bible.


Yes, no doubt that was what God meant through Paul, NOT!

This is what God meant through Paul:

Mat 15:24 KJV But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


What are you talking about? That is rather what God meant through the Master Teacher Yeshua, for those are clearly words given to Yeshua from the Father, and that statement has never been rescinded, altered, or explained away by Paul or anyone else. Therefore it is we who must change our own paradigm-mindsets because Messiah will not be changing his mind for you or anyone else, ever. Therefore if you are not willing to become a lost sheep of the house of Israel, like the Canaanite woman of Tyre was willing to do, BY FAITH, then Yeshua clearly and emphatically states that he was not sent to you, period, and likewise he says that the heavens and the earth shall pass away but his words shall not pass away. Do you have anything to say about the thread topic, O king? :)

:sheep:

1Mind1Spirit
December 11th, 2015, 11:31 AM
Perhaps the lukewarm get set on fire when they get spewed out? One way or another we are all going to go through the fiery trials of the faithful. But the Father always brings His people through the fire: it is the Amorites, Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Jebusites, Girgashites, and Evite fleshmongers, that get left behind in the dross. :)

Perhaps........ :)

It's a fearsome thing to fall into the hands of the living God and to realize Jesus' face is set like flint.

1Mind1Spirit
December 11th, 2015, 01:07 PM
Originally Posted by daqq View Post

Perhaps the lukewarm get set on fire when they get spewed out? One way or another we are all going to go through the fiery trials of the faithful. But the Father always brings His people through the fire: it is the Amorites, Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Jebusites, Girgashites, and Evite fleshmongers, that get left behind in the dross.


Perhaps........ :)




Therefore it is we who must change our own paradigm-mindsets because Messiah will not be changing his mind for you or anyone else, ever.



It's a fearsome thing to fall into the hands of the living God and to realize Jesus' face is set like flint.

1Mind1Spirit
December 11th, 2015, 01:10 PM
All's well that ends well. lol

chrysostom
January 2nd, 2016, 04:46 AM
the seven heads

the seven heads are the seven dynasties of the Roman Empire

Julio-Claudian dynasty 68
Flavian dynasty 96
Adoptive and Antonine Emperors 192
House of Severus 235
Tetrarchy and the House of Constantine 364
House of Valentinian 455
Family of Leo I the Great 476

many have been counting the kings

not many understand that there were seven dynasties
but
the historians are the ones who determined this when they came up with the Byzantine Empire to separate the eastern Roman empire from the western one

isaac newton agrees they are dynasties (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4434546#post4434546)

back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

can you count them?

daqq
January 2nd, 2016, 05:36 AM
can you count them?

They have already been counted! :)
Perhaps the only reason you do not see it is because you do not want to:


I thought this thread was for counting heads with blasphemous names?

1) Nbuwkadre'tsar (Hebrew) - Jeremiah 25:1
2) Nbuwkadre'tsowr (Hebrew) - Ezra 2:1, Jeremiah 49:28
3) Nbukadne'tsar (Hebrew) - 2 Kings 24:1, Daniel 2:1
4) Nbuwkadne'tsar (Hebrew) - 2 Kings 24:11, Jeremiah 27:6, Daniel 1:1
5) Nbuwkadnetsar (Hebrew) - Esther 2:6, Daniel 1:18
6) Nbuwkadnetsar (Aramaic) - Ezra 5:12, Daniel 2:28, Daniel 3:13
7) Nbukadnetsar (Aramaic) - Daniel 3:14
8) Nbuwkadre'tsar (Hebrew) - Ezekiel 29:18-21

First year of Nbuwkadre'tsar is Jeremiah 25:1

Jeremiah 25:1
1. The word that came to Jeremiah concerning all the people of Judah in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, that was the first year of Nbuwkadre'tsar king of Babylon:

Ezekiel concerning Tyre-Tyrus, (Tsowr) and Nbuwkadre'tsar:

Ezekiel 26:7
7. For thus says Adonay YHWH; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus, Nbuwkadre'tsar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.

Ezekiel 29:18-21
18. Son of man, Nbuwkadre'tsar king of Babylon caused his army to serve a great service against Tyrus: every head was made bald, and every shoulder was peeled: yet had he no wages, nor his army, for Tyrus, for the service that he had served against it:
19. Therefore thus says Adonay YHWH; Behold, I will give the land of Egypt unto Nbuwkadre'tsar king of Babylon; and he shall take her multitude, and take her spoil, and take her prey; and it shall be the wages for his army.
20. I have given him the land of Egypt for his labor wherewith he served against it, because they wrought for me, says Adonay YHWH.
21. In that day will I cause the horn of the house of Yisrael to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am YHWH.

And was it not already said in another of your threads how historicism is fallacy? When did Nebuchanezzar ever conquer Egypt and fulfill the things prophesied in the several above passages of Ezekiel? They were never fulfilled because clearly from a purely historical context Nebuchadnezzar never conquered Egypt. Therefore I said to you elsewhere: Nbuwkadre'tsar the terrible of the heathen is on his way, and the eighth is of the seven, the head-sum of the gold, O king, so that the words of God be fulfilled, (Rev 17:17). Perhaps in the afterglow of the aftermath days you will consider it perfectly, O king. :)

Acts 13:40-41 KJV
40. Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;
41. Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you [Habakkuk 1:5].

Habakkuk 1:5-10 KJV
5. Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for I will work a work in your days which ye will not believe, though it be told you.
6. For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not theirs.
7. They are terrible and dreadful: their judgment and their dignity shall proceed of themselves.
8. Their horses also are swifter than the leopards, and are more fierce than the evening wolves: and their horsemen shall spread themselves, and their horsemen shall come from far; they shall fly as the eagle that hasteth to eat.
9. They shall come all for violence: their faces shall sup up as the east wind, and they shall gather the captivity as the sand.
10. And they shall scoff at the kings, and the princes shall be a scorn unto them: they shall deride every strong hold; for they shall heap dust, and take it.

Again, this genos of "bitter and hasty Chaldean" cannot be seen with the natural eyes of the flesh of the carnal minded man; and they do indeed come to possess houses not their own, and every man is indeed likened to a house:

Luke 11:24-26 KJV
24. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

And if the first unclean spirit of the world and prince of the power of the air goes out from the man, and wanders like a scapegoat in the dry-arid places of the desert, seeking rest and finding none, and then associates in league with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself; would that not make him "the eighth and of the seven", (Rev 17:11)? Did you not notice the spelling of the names in my list quoted above? The first is the same as the eighth for reasons not my own. :chuckle:

Habakkuk 2:2-3 KJV
2. And the Lord answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it.
3. For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry [Hebrews 10:37-39].

:sheep:

chrysostom
January 2nd, 2016, 05:46 AM
daqq

what exactly is your religious affiliation?

daqq
January 2nd, 2016, 05:49 AM
daqq

what exactly is your religious affiliation?

Disciple of the Word of the Father. :)

Zeke
January 2nd, 2016, 11:37 AM
"BibleCorrector" is nothing more than a "KJV Only" tool used by the likes of yourself and your associate Heir who also likes to use the same taunt against those who do not accept your KJV Only buffoonery. The "New Testament/Covenant" is written in Greek, not Ye olde king James English: better to believe what is actually written in the original languages than to put all of your trust in king Jimmy and his court. If you are going to continue perverting the Scripture someone needs to correct your perversions. What you call the Bible is full of errors because you put all of your trust into one English translation that has already clearly been shown to be erroneous. It is not the Bible that I corrected but rather your spurious rendering that other translators have corrected in their versions of the Bible.



What are you talking about? That is rather what God meant through the Master Teacher Yeshua, for those are clearly words given to Yeshua from the Father, and that statement has never been rescinded, altered, or explained away by Paul or anyone else. Therefore it is we who must change our own paradigm-mindsets because Messiah will not be changing his mind for you or anyone else, ever. Therefore if you are not willing to become a lost sheep of the house of Israel, like the Canaanite woman of Tyre was willing to do, BY FAITH, then Yeshua clearly and emphatically states that he was not sent to you, period, and likewise he says that the heavens and the earth shall pass away but his words shall not pass away. Do you have anything to say about the thread topic, O king? :)

:sheep:

I see you're Slaying the seven headed Hydra of the KJO mid acts dragon, spewing lukewarm flames of rhetoric to guard their fools Gold Fleece of literal perversion.

chrysostom
January 23rd, 2016, 06:12 AM
dynasties

the historians know how to count them

daqq
January 23rd, 2016, 06:37 AM
dynasties

the historians know how to count them

The first head is Nebuchadnezzar himself, the man, the king, a king of kings:
You are the head-sum of gold, (O king) ~ Dan 2:38 :)

KingdomRose
January 23rd, 2016, 06:52 PM
A fascinating subject!!! There is so much info that I can't post it all. If you want to know all about the beasts of Revelation, there is a web-site that will explain it all.

www.jw.org


Click on "search" in the upper right-hand corner and type in what you're looking for.

chrysostom
February 14th, 2016, 06:38 AM
thanks for your interest

fzappa13
February 14th, 2016, 07:26 AM
five have fallen
one is
and
one is yet to come

at that time chyrsostom was in ephesus replacing seven bishops



At that time Jesus walked the earth ...



John 4:When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,

2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

3 He left Judaea, and departed again into Galilee.

4 And he must needs go through Samaria.

5 Then cometh he to a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph.

6 Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour.

7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.

8 (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.)

9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.

10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?

12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?

13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:

14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

15 The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw.

16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither.

17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband:

18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.



At that time five were, one is and one is yet to come. There is still one yet to come. The Bible says this:

Rev 17:10 “And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.”

The Bible says these 7 are kings. Better for your doctrine to conform to what the Bible says rather than lop off words from it to have it fit your doctrine, don't you think?.

Flaminggg
February 15th, 2016, 12:41 AM
the seven heads

the seven heads are the seven dynasties of the Roman Empire

Julio-Claudian dynasty 68
Flavian dynasty 96
Adoptive and Antonine Emperors 192
House of Severus 235
Tetrarchy and the House of Constantine 364
House of Valentinian 455
Family of Leo I the Great 476

many have been counting the kings

Spiritual
Lets Start Fresh! Enoch is the Seventh from Adam and there are Seven SEALS, (Enoch, Moses, Elijah, Jesus, Lazarus, John from Revelation, "Two Witnesses"), God takes only Seven Personalities into Heaven, Body and Soul to testify of his Gospel. ("Two Witnesses" are now, and they will be resurrected to Reign for 5 Months, Rev. 17:10). Lets Continue:

Earthly

MATTHEW 22:20 And he saith unto them, Whose [is] this image and superscription?
MATTHEW 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

(After the 144,000 of Reuben (Melchisedek, High Priest before Earth), and 144,000 of Benjamin (Zachariah/Zechariah, High Priest (Buddha) were completed God came as a representative of the 144,000 of Joseph, pictured as Jesus Christ (Salvation Divisions: 1 Chronicles 5:1, Judges 20:15 = 70 for Reuben of Luke 3, 6000 of Benjamin of Earth's Age or Genesis ... 200,000,000 of Joseph, not literal, 20 Generations of Gen. 5 and 11 given to Satan)

The First time God uses an army instead of a prophet to deliver the Jewish people out of sin was in the New Testament, and that began with Caesar (Thing is another reference to "Joseph the Blessing"):

1. Caesar - Calls an Army to Crucify Jesus Christ 28-33 A.D. (Jews saved from keeping the Bible)
2. Titus - Roman Army Called to Destroy the Temple of Jerusalem 70 A.D. (Jews Saved from Jerusalem)
3. Popes - Knights Templar 1100 A.D.
4. Nicholas II – last Tsar of Russia calls an Army to the Nation of the Jews (World War 1 - Europe) 1914 A.D.
5. Hitler calls an Army to the Nation of the Jews (World War 2 - Europe) 1939 A.D.
6. Son of Perdition calls Army to the Nation of the Jews/USA (40 Days of Tribulation) 2016 A.D.
7. Antichrist calls Babylon to the Jews (5 Months) 2016 A.D.

(There playing a suicidal game with the Antichrist right now, we are not yet inside what constitutes the 40 Days of the Tribulation, but I'm sure he will correct us in a few days, so don't worry about the statements made claiming that we are now inside the Tribulation of 40 days)

Mark 3:23, "How can Satan cast out Satan"? or a Nation against itself. The USA has a unique population where its diversity treats its general population very poorly, and receives great benefit. No where on earth will you find this kind of relationship, so it is not only explosive but it is a public threat of magnitude waiting to happen. So far, this behavior has largely not left the scope of the Antichrist's influence, but it will. God does not want the Antichrist to reign at all except to give a law, before the 5 months, otherwise God would be obligated to terminate human life that will eventually be done, because God has no purpose for a large amount of it, other than to convict the nations of sin, and to remove a threat, based on that sin. ... ... ... ... How ever the Antichrist wants to play his hand, so far that means he intends to have your sin portray the 40 days of Tribulation as a period of scientific discovery leading to an abundance in this universe, and also on earth, so he is not concerned about the leaderships, either political or religious. So he may even have already decided to promote them, as a partial answer to challenges of his authority. Love and Blessings. (We will make a minor correction to the Tribulation Period in a few days, but we are still close anyway, if not immediately there as we have been lead to believe thus far).

chrysostom
March 15th, 2016, 05:26 AM
the seven heads

the seven heads are the seven dynasties of the Roman Empire

Julio-Claudian dynasty 68
Flavian dynasty 96
Adoptive and Antonine Emperors 192
House of Severus 235
Tetrarchy and the House of Constantine 364
House of Valentinian 455
Family of Leo I the Great 476

many have been counting the kings

not many understand that there were seven dynasties
but
the historians are the ones who determined this when they came up with the Byzantine Empire to separate the eastern Roman empire from the western one

isaac newton agrees they are dynasties (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4434546#post4434546)

back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

this is just one of the pieces
-you need many pieces for the puzzle

SaulToPaul
March 15th, 2016, 10:51 AM
this is just one of the pieces
-you need many pieces for the puzzle

:chuckle:

chrysostom
March 28th, 2016, 10:21 AM
how many pieces do you have?

chrysostom
April 13th, 2016, 05:05 AM
isaac newton thinks they are dynasties

chrysostom
May 11th, 2016, 03:04 AM
the historians counted them

chrysostom
June 9th, 2016, 04:57 AM
thanks for watching

chrysostom
July 1st, 2016, 10:07 AM
historians can tell you about what has happened
-but
-they can't tell you what will happen
-ignoring the past will not help you with the future

SaulToPaul
July 1st, 2016, 10:28 AM
-ignoring the past will not help you with the future

Forcing prophecy into the past, and disregarding hundreds of details, will not help you understand the Bible at all.

chrysostom
July 25th, 2016, 12:07 PM
this is not a biggie
-just find something that fits
-or
-just put it in the future
-no problem

SaulToPaul
July 25th, 2016, 12:41 PM
this is not a biggie
-just find something that fits
-or
-just put it in the future
-no problem

If it does not fit in the past, there is only one option.

chrysostom
August 12th, 2016, 05:03 AM
If it does not fit in the past, there is only one option.

not true -
you can always change your interpretation of scripture as to what is supposed to happen

SaulToPaul
August 12th, 2016, 05:27 AM
not true -
you can always change your interpretation of scripture as to what is supposed to happen

If it does not fit the past, it does not fit the past.
There is only one option if you're going to be a believer.

chrysostom
August 12th, 2016, 09:30 AM
If it does not fit the past, it does not fit the past.
There is only one option if you're going to be a believer.

do you understand the word interpretation? -
it is in your bible, 43 times

SaulToPaul
August 12th, 2016, 09:43 AM
do you understand the word interpretation? -
it is in your bible, 43 times

What's to interpret?

chrysostom
September 22nd, 2016, 04:17 AM
What's to interpret?

and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand

SaulToPaul
September 22nd, 2016, 06:49 AM
and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand

:chuckle:

Am I wicked?

chrysostom
October 1st, 2016, 01:30 AM
the seven heads

the seven heads are the seven dynasties of the Roman Empire

Julio-Claudian dynasty 68
Flavian dynasty 96
Adoptive and Antonine Emperors 192
House of Severus 235
Tetrarchy and the House of Constantine 364
House of Valentinian 455
Family of Leo I the Great 476

many have been counting the kings

not many understand that there were seven dynasties
but
the historians are the ones who determined this when they came up with the Byzantine Empire to separate the eastern Roman empire from the western one

isaac newton agrees they are dynasties (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4434546#post4434546)

back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

this is just one piece of the puzzle
-but-
it does fit

Rondonmonson
October 1st, 2016, 07:21 AM
the seven heads

the seven heads are the seven dynasties of the Roman Empire

Julio-Claudian dynasty 68
Flavian dynasty 96
Adoptive and Antonine Emperors 192
House of Severus 235
Tetrarchy and the House of Constantine 364
House of Valentinian 455
Family of Leo I the Great 476

many have been counting the kings

not many understand that there were seven dynasties
but
the historians are the ones who determined this when they came up with the Byzantine Empire to separate the eastern Roman empire from the western one

back to
the apocalypse
the key here is

the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed 13:12

instead of empires or kingdoms
we should be looking at religions as the beasts
it was the religion of the roman empire that was the real problem
paganism
it was mortally wounded st the beginning of the byzantine empire
but
it was soon replaced by islam
the black stone is at the kaaba, a sacred shrine of muslims, which was originally a pagan shrine

These are nowhere close to being the Seven Heads. In Rev. 17 we are told the Mystery, so it is no longer a Mystery. The woman that sat on Seven Mountains (Rode the Seven Headed Beast)is explained.

Rev. 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

{{ The Seven Mountains have absolutely nothing to do with 7 Hills. It is self explanatory, the angel says come I will show you the MYSTERY of the Woman and the Beast she rides. IT IS NO MYSTERY anymore. The Seven Mountains are Seven Kings, not Hills, just like the Seven Heads on the Beast are Kings, they are Rulers that Arose. Five have Fallen (before AD 96) One is (Rome) and one is YET TO COME (Revived Rome/Anti-Christ and the 10 Kings) so there are your 7 in a nutshell. }}

Each Kingdom has a King at its helm when it falls hence 5 Kings had Fallen. Each head of the Beast have one thing in common, they conquered or enslaved Israel. Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece are the Five that had Fallen. Rome was the one that IS [Currently ruling at Johns time] and the one that is to come is the Anti-Christ/Little Horn and his 10 Confederate Kings.

chrysostom
October 14th, 2016, 05:35 AM
Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece are the Five that had Fallen. Rome was the one that IS [Currently ruling at Johns time] and the one that is to come is the Anti-Christ/Little Horn and his 10 Confederate Kings.

what is a beast
-if-
they are kings?
-
beasts are empires
heads are dynasties
horns are dynasties
antichrist is a man
the harlot is a city
-
how can you confuse all that?

Rondonmonson
October 14th, 2016, 12:09 PM
what is a beast
-if-
they are kings?
-
beasts are empires
heads are dynasties
horns are dynasties
antichrist is a man
the harlot is a city
-
how can you confuse all that?

A Beast is an Empire per Daniel 7, a Beast or empire has a King, they are one and the same. An Empire or Beast though has many kings not just one. But there is only one king at the helm when the empire loses its "power". The reason Kings are used in Rev.17 is the Angel did not want to confuse us about the last Beast, he will be A MAN not a Beast Kingdom per se. And then there will be an 8th King also, it will be Satan possessing the Anti-Christ. In order to keep us from thinking the last two will be NATION KINGDOMS instead of a MAN that is evil and a Demon that possesses a man, the BEASTS were presented as Kings that have Fallen. That is true, all of the Kingdoms had a KING at the helm when the nations fell. So there was 7 KINGS and five had fell, one King was at Johns time, and the Anti-Christ King is yet to come, then the 8th King will be Satan who is of the 7. THAT'S WHY KINGS WAS USED....

The Harlot is not a City, it is a METAPHOR.

Babylon is not Mecca, Rome, NYC, USA, Jerusalem, Old Babylon and it is not a Mystery, the Angel said COME and I will show you the Mystery of the Woman and the Beast she rides on. Since the Angel is telling the Mystery in Rev. 17, it looks like we have erred in not understanding the angels explanation. The Beast with 7 Heads is explained, it is 7 Kings, 5 have fallen, one is and one is yet to come. THERE IS THE BEAST Explained. Since this 7 headed Beast in Rev. 13 has the Leopard, Bear and Lion integrated in it, we understand these seven are kingdoms that have conquered or enslaved Israel. So Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece are the 5, Rome was the one that was in Johns time still intact, and the Anti-Christ and his 10 Kings will be the coming 7th Head. MYSTERY SOLVED/EXPLAINED.

Woman was on waters, which the Angel says is many Nations, Peoples, Tongues and Multitudes. Which means she is all over the world. She is destroyed by the Kings. and she is that Great City that rules over Kings. So lets add this up. She is all over the world, she gets killed of in the end times by the Kings in league with the Beast and the Angel calls her a city that reigns over many Kings. In the vision BABYLON THE GREAT was Written on her forehead !! The Angel is explaining the vision John SAW !! It is Babylon not Rome, the Seven Mountains are Seven Rulers, they are not 7 HILLS. Since Babylon will never again be a city per prophecy we understand this is metaphorical. So we have a metaphorical city that represents the woman, she is all over the world and the last clue is the Kings Destroy her. Who can she be ?

So since she is killed off how can she be metaphorical ? Because she is a Slut Harlot !! She is all over the world !! Hmmmmm what could that be ? Only ONE THING, she is False Religion.

False Religion is no doubt all over the world, False Religion is a Harlot prostitute, False Religion will be Destroyed by the Anti-Christ and his Kings because they will demand the Beast be worshiped as GOD !! There will be no room for Islam, Buddhism, or any Religion, they will also come after Christians and the Jews will have to Flee Judea, but the Harlot is JUDGED just like Rev. 17:1 says, she is destroyed.

This can't be the Babylon of Rev. 18 because the Kings cry and lament her destruction....What gives ? Well the Babylon of Rev. 18 is the False Gov. System, the Last Head of the Seven Headed Beast. God destroys her with Plagues, Grasses and Tress burn, the Devils are loosed out of the Pit (Apollyon and his horde of Demons)and the earth/Babylon is become a habitation of devils.

There is NO MYSTERY......The Angel explains the Mystery.

Seven Headed Beast is Seven Governments which come against Israel.

Woman is False Religion which is a Harlot before God and has murdered the Saints and Martyrs of God.

chrysostom
October 24th, 2016, 04:55 AM
The Harlot is not a City,

did you read 17 and 18?

Rondonmonson
October 24th, 2016, 09:19 AM
did you read 17 and 18?

EVERYTHING IN THE POST WAS ABOUT 17 AND 18.

Read Rev. 16, when the NATIONS FALL, Babylon comes into remembrance before God. The Nations mentioned in Rev. 16 are seen as Babylon by God. Rev. 16 ends Revelation until Jesus comes in Rev. 19 to conquer, Rev. 16 is Jesus conquering at Armageddon. There is no Rev. 17 and 18 in Reality, its just a retelling of things that have already happened. Rev. 16 at the 7th Vial says what ? IT IS DONE !!

Rev. 17 is only God explaining how False Religion is destroyed (All Islam and Religions will be destroyed by the A.C. right after the Abomination of Desolation).

Rev. 18 is only God telling us about the Seal, Trump and Vial Judgments on Babylon.(World/Last Gov System)

chrysostom
November 1st, 2016, 05:50 AM
EVERYTHING IN THE POST WAS ABOUT 17 AND 18.


city is mentioned in 18 seven times

Rondonmonson
November 1st, 2016, 01:22 PM
city is mentioned in 18 seven times

So, it is still a metaphor. Babylon will never be again, that is foretold. The Key is Rev. chapter 16. You must remember there is no Rev. 17 or 18 as per time equation. The key is Rev. 16 and how it ends,


The Sixth Vial brings forth the battle of Armageddon, or should I say draws the armies of the nations towards Jerusalem to destroy her, but Jesus meets them at Armageddon. Then the SEVENTH VIAL is the Key:

Rev. 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. { There is no Rev. 17 and 18 in essence. }

Verse 18 says there was a GREAT EARTHQUAKE....THEN Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts,and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath[/SIZE].

Do you notice that when the NATIONS ARE DEFEATED (FELL) Great Babylon came into God's Remembrance ? YOU CATCH THAT ? God sees them as Babylon, and thus pours at His Wrath on them, and we know the Seven Vials are Gods Wrath !! It is not a LITERAL CITY.........It is GODS PERCEPTION of how evil these Nations have become.

chrysostom
November 13th, 2016, 02:29 PM
So, it is still a metaphor.

when is it literal for you?

Rondonmonson
November 14th, 2016, 08:40 PM
when is it literal for you?

The Message is literal, as were the parables of Jesus' message, you just have to dig for the truth. Revelation is encoded by the Old Testament. Once we realize that, it is not hard to decipher. Is there a Beast with Seven Heads ? Is there a Lamb that was Slaughtered in Heaven ? Is there woman dressed with the Sun, moon and 12 Stars ? NO............etc etc. etc.

REVELATION IS ENCODED FOR A REASON, Just like Jesus spoke in parables for a reason. An intense, in depth study of Rev. 17 and 18 show exactly what they are, and it shows Rev. 17 and 18 to be a retelling of things that have passed by the time Rev. 16 is finished.

chrysostom
November 28th, 2016, 07:02 AM
Is there a Beast with Seven Heads ?

the roman empire had seven dynasties

Rondonmonson
November 28th, 2016, 12:45 PM
the roman empire had seven dynasties

So....they could have 50, it is not relevant to the facts, unless each dynasty conquered Israel. Each Head represents a Beast that has conquered Israel.

God Bless.

chrysostom
November 29th, 2016, 09:45 AM
So....they could have 50, it is not relevant to the facts, unless each dynasty conquered Israel. Each Head represents a Beast that has conquered Israel.

God Bless.

where does it say that?

Rondonmonson
November 29th, 2016, 03:47 PM
where does it say that?

Why do you think in the book of Daniel that Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome are called Beasts ? What common thread do they have ? They each Conquered, enslaved or Ruled Israel for a period of time and they were Super Powers of their time. NOW...Why wouldn't the USSR or the United States or even the British Empire be a BEAST? Because they never conquered Israel, and even though the Brits as well as the Ottoman Empire ruled the land Israel once was, Israel was not a nation at that time, thus Ezekiel's prophecy was fulfilled, the BONES WERE DEAD, but now they are ALIVE AGAIN (Circa 1948).

So how do we get to the Seven Beasts or the Seven Headed Beast ? Well looking at the Seven Headed Beast of Rev. 13 and 17, we see in Rev. 13 that the Lion (Babylon) Bear (Persia) and Leopard (Greece) are represented as a part of this Seven Headed Beast, so the symbolism continued, each nation (Head/Beast) had to of conquered Israel. On to Rev. 17, we see the Harlot riding the Beast with Seven Heads here, and in verse 7 the Angel says why did you Marvel ? Come and I will show you the MYSTERY of the Harlot and the Beast she Rides on.........so we get told exactly what the Seven Headed Beast is by the Angel of the Lord in Rev. 17.

The Angel starts out by saying there are Seven Kings, Five have Fallen, ONE IS, and ONE IS YET TO COME.....So we understand this Beast with Seven Heads represents Seven Kingdoms, Kings are used because each Kingdom had to have ONE KING at the helm when they lost power, BUT MAINLY, because the last Kingdom will be Dominated by ONE MAN/ONE KING the Anti-Christ/Little Horn who is the last BEAST !! So we have to figure out who the other Three Beasts are besides Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome. WHO COULD IT POSSIBLE BE ?

We were told from Babylon on there would be Five Kingdoms, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and Revived Rome or the Anti-Christ and his 10 Kings, so who could the other Two Be ? WELL, THAT'S EASY.

Egypt, and Assyria also Conquered/Enslaved Israel, so let is now add it up using Rev. 17.

Five have Fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and Greece) ONE IS (We know that Rome was Ruling Israel and most of the Known world at the time John wrote Revelation) and ONE IS YET TO COME (The Anti-Christ and his 10 Kings who WILL CONQUER Israel, see the Abomination of Desolation.)

Revelation is Coded, you have to use the Old Testament to figure it out, plus God is revealing much these days. God is giving me many things in these last days, because I sought out the truth, I banged my head against the wall day after day, learning a bit more till it all fit together. God is Revealing much in these last days. AMEN.

chrysostom
December 2nd, 2016, 06:04 AM
Why do you think in the book of Daniel that Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome are called Beasts ? What common thread do they have ? They each Conquered, enslaved or Ruled Israel for a period of time and they were Super Powers of their time.

okay - assuming that is true -
what makes rome different from all the rest?

Rondonmonson
December 2nd, 2016, 04:04 PM
okay - assuming that is true -
what makes rome different from all the rest?

The Pax-Romana and using one "common language", throughout much of their empire (Koine Greek) was a big factor in what was different about the Fourth Beast.(Rome) They unlike the Beasts (Babylon, Persia and Greece) pretty much allowed home rule, and local religions to abide, as long as the taxes were paid and the countrymen did not try to overthrow Roman Rule. They were very heinous also, they would crucify many people when they conquered a nation, and leave their bodies lining the streets for days, for "effect".

Without this Pax-Romanus which allowed free travel over much of Europe, Asia-Minor and the Middle-East the Gospel would never have been able to spread and get off the ground, and the Koine Greek being a common language was also very important for the spreading of the Gospel. Without this "ROMAN PEACE" the Gospel would have had a hard time getting off the ground, spreading around the region, then the world eventually.

Rome thus was different from all the others in that they ruled in a far different manner. Jesus came at just the perfect time. Isn't God great with His timing ?

chrysostom
December 3rd, 2016, 03:50 AM
Rome thus was different from all the others in that they ruled in a far different manner. Jesus came at just the perfect time.
wouldn't you expect the fourth beast to still be with us today?
-
it would still be around after the thousand years

Rondonmonson
December 3rd, 2016, 08:21 AM
wouldn't you expect the fourth beast to still be with us today?
-
it would still be around after the thousand years

No sir, when the Beasts are Beasts Israel has to be a Nation/Peoples who are Conquered/Subjugated by the Beast/Nation. The framework is still there of course, Rome was the Fourth Beast, and at he End Time a Little Horn arises out of the Fourth Beast. (I have a blog explaining this is detail, where the Anti-Christ is born {Greece} and what country he comes to power in {European Union once it gets reduced to 10 Kings/Nations} if you would be interested, It explains this in further detail.) http://mrrondonmon.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-birthplace-of-anti-christ.html

Once this Man of Sin/Anti-Christ conquers Israel and forces an Idol of himself to be worshiped in the Temple of God, this is when Israel is Conquered, and this is why the "Beast" only rules 42 months over Israel or is given power of the Saints for 42 months, he doesn't become a Beast until he conquers Israel. He arises out of the Fourth Beasts Ruins so to speak or out of their "Footprint". (Europe). This is why the Ottoman Empire is not a Beast, they ruled the land of Israel, but never ruled the land of Israel while the Jews were in the Land.

But you are correct, it will be Rome so to speak (Europe) in which the Beast/Anti-Christ comes to power at the end times. Daniel 7 and 8 describes this perfectly, that is what my blog is about, how this Anti-Christ or Little Horn arises out of Two-Kingdoms at once, Greece is where he is/was born and Europe is where he comes to power via the E.U. (After it is realigned to 10 Kingdoms/Nations no doubt).

This all lines up with Ezekiel's prophecy of Dry Bones also, Israel becomes Dead Men's Bones (they were no more a nation) and God disperses them unto all the nations around the world for their disobedience. Then Ezekiel is asked, Can These Bones Live Again ? And we know the answer to that, they were revived in 1948. Thus they can now be conquered again, setting up the Fourth Beast to be Revived.

S.T. Ranger
December 4th, 2016, 12:03 PM
How about a broader view?



Revelation 17:7-13

King James Version (KJV)

7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.



We are told the seven heads and ten horns are to be explained.



8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.


A total of seven Kings for the seven Mountains.

Five are fallen: Egypt, Assyria, Medo-Persia, Babylon, and Greece.

One is: Rome.

The other is not yet come: the Empire the Anti-Christ rules, though he is not the first ruler, the seventh King is.




11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.



He is of the seventh Kingdom/Empire, but arises to take the Kingdom (and I place this as likely at the mid-point of the Tribulation.



12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.



These are not in power at the time of the writing, just as the Seventh Kingdom is not yet arrived (which makes it unlikely that Rome, which was in power at the time can be considered). Their rule is limited to a short time.

They support the base authority that is the Beast from which the seven heads arise/arose:



13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.



God bless.

Rondonmonson
December 5th, 2016, 07:19 AM
How about a broader view?

Revelation 17:7-13

King James Version (KJV)

I have went over this on the previous page, POST 108,110,112 and 120 so no need in reposting, you can get my view there.


We are told the seven heads and ten horns are to be explained.
This is true, the "Mystery" is explained, here is no Mystery.


A total of seven Kings for the seven Mountains.

Five are fallen: Egypt, Assyria, Medo-Persia, Babylon, and Greece.

One is: Rome.

The other is not yet come: the Empire the Anti-Christ rules, though he is not the first ruler, the seventh King is.

I agree with all but the last sentence. The Anti-Christ is the Seventh King, it is the 8th that is of the 7, because of course Satan has ruled all 7 kings by proxy. Satan gives the Seventh King his power, just as Daniel chapter 8 says.

The Confusion is people actually think there is an 8th King or Man, but the Anti-Christ never gives up his power, he only becomes a "BEAST" when he conquers Israel at the 42 month mark or midway mark. The 8th King is only Satan, who was Lord over all of the 7, just like Jesus was Lord over all 12 (counting Paul) disciples. Jesus is our King and Lord. Satan is their King or Lord.

chrysostom
December 13th, 2016, 05:51 AM
the seven heads are the seven dynasties of the roman empire -
the first beast of the apocalypse -
it destroyed the temple

chrysostom
December 24th, 2016, 04:20 AM
the first beast with seven heads was mortally wounded
-and-
replaced by the second beast with ten horns
-
unlike all the others

chrysostom
January 6th, 2017, 05:32 AM
think bigger -
individuals are big -
dynasties are bigger -
empires are biggest -
very few individuals are big enough to be mentioned in the apocalypse
very few dynasties
very few empires

balut55
January 8th, 2017, 09:13 AM
Yes. Empires always equal heads or beasts.


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balut55
January 8th, 2017, 09:15 AM
Pope Francis is aligned with the new Holy Roman Empire.


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balut55
January 8th, 2017, 10:35 AM
Is the United States mentioned in the Bible? The strongest and richest country in history should be in there, right


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balut55
January 8th, 2017, 10:52 AM
the first beast with seven heads was mortally wounded
-and-
replaced by the second beast with ten horns
-
unlike all the others

Same countries Germany and Turkey. Pope Francis is the Islamic Imam. The fourth Reich is world wide.


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balut55
January 8th, 2017, 10:53 AM
Yes, exceedingly dreadful.


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chrysostom
January 26th, 2017, 05:26 AM
love francis
-he is feeding His sheep

chrysostom
February 28th, 2017, 03:56 AM
the seven heads

the seven heads are the seven dynasties of the Roman Empire

Julio-Claudian dynasty 68
Flavian dynasty 96
Adoptive and Antonine Emperors 192
House of Severus 235
Tetrarchy and the House of Constantine 364
House of Valentinian 455
Family of Leo I the Great 476

many have been counting the kings

not many understand that there were seven dynasties
but
the historians are the ones who determined this when they came up with the Byzantine Empire to separate the eastern Roman empire from the western one

isaac newton agrees they are dynasties (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4434546#post4434546)

back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

look for dynasties

chrysostom
March 29th, 2017, 04:29 AM
you should be looking -
stp is watching

chrysostom
May 3rd, 2017, 05:08 AM
the seven heads are the seven dynasties of the roman empire

SaulToPaul
May 3rd, 2017, 06:34 AM
the seven heads are the seven dynasties of the roman empire

:chuckle:

chrysostom
June 1st, 2017, 03:58 AM
:chuckle:

thanks for watching

chrysostom
July 8th, 2017, 05:24 AM
historians are watching

Epoisses
July 8th, 2017, 08:58 PM
the seven heads are the seven dynasties of the roman empire

The seven heads are seven 'ancient aliens' who will show up at the end and deceive everyone.

The aliens are coming! The aliens are coming!

chrysostom
August 8th, 2017, 02:51 AM
The seven heads are seven 'ancient aliens' who will show up at the end and deceive everyone.

The aliens are coming! The aliens are coming!

you must be a futurist

Epoisses
August 8th, 2017, 06:04 AM
you must be a futurist

Isn't everybody?

chrysostom
August 31st, 2017, 04:33 AM
Isn't everybody?

no, just the ones whose interpretation of prophecy can't be found in history

Epoisses
August 31st, 2017, 06:25 AM
no, just the ones whose interpretation of prophecy can't be found in history

Is your first name John?