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chrysostom
October 16th, 2011, 09:05 AM
the beasts of Daniel


we need to use the Jewish temple to tie the four together
or
in other words

don't mess with the temple

The first two temples were destroyed by the Babylonian and Roman empires
so
they have to be our first two candidates
now
what is preventing the third temple?

the Dome of the Rock
so
Islam is our third candidate
and
different from all the rest

we are really looking for the second beast
since
Babylonian would be the first
Roman would be the third
Islam the fourth
so
that leaves us with the Median, Persian, and Greek kingdoms
and
all you have to do is ask which one messed with the temple
and
as it turns out Antiochus IV Epiphanes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiochus_IV_Epiphanes) in 167 BC took over the second temple an installed the Greek god for them to worship
so
the Babylonian, Greek, and Roman empires
and
Islam are the four beasts of Daniel

I will also show how the last two beasts of Daniel are the two beasts of Revelation (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3750229#post3750229)

back to the apocalypse (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?102616-the-apocalypse&highlight=)

jerzy
October 16th, 2011, 09:22 AM
the beasts of Daniel

I have revised my views on the beasts of Daniel
and
here is my last thread on the subject

The Four Beasts of Daniel (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38129)

I now think we need to use the Jewish temple to tie the four together
or
in other words

don't mess with the temple

The first two temples were destroyed by the Babylonian and Roman empires
so
they have to be our first two candidates
now
what is preventing the third temple?

the Dome of the Rock
so
Islam is our third candidate
and
different from all the rest

we are really looking for the second beast
since
Babylonian would be the first
Roman would be the third
Islam the fourth
so
that leaves us with the Median, Persian, and Greek kingdoms
and
all you have to do is ask which one messed with the temple
and
as it turns out Antiochus IV Epiphanes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiochus_IV_Epiphanes) in 167 BC took over the second temple an installed the Greek god for them to worship
so
the Babylonian, Greek, and Roman empires
and
Islam are the four beasts of Daniel

I will also show how the last two beasts of Daniel are the two beasts of Revelation

You better don't

It is enough, as it is, of your silly attempt to divert attention away from your horrible sect.

Nick M
October 16th, 2011, 09:39 AM
I will gladly participate in the thread when he formats correctly.

chrysostom
October 16th, 2011, 10:00 AM
I will gladly participate in the thread when he formats correctly.

so I will not benefit from your input
if
I don't change my format






I can live with that

Selaphiel
October 16th, 2011, 10:17 AM
Why engage in unfounded futurism when the imagery makes sense within the historical context of the book? Put aside your irrational hatred of Islam for just one second and do not read your own prejudice into texts that were written 800-900 years before Islam was even founded.

The four beasts in Daniel 7 are: Babylonians, Persians, Medes and the Greek empire of Alexander the great.
The ten horns are the ten kings of the Seleucid empire that preceeded Antiochus IV Epiphanes who is referred to in Daniel 7:25 for persecuting Jews and attempting to destroy Judaism so they would adapt Greek customs.
It also matches the entire theme of the Book of Daniel which is to preserve Judaism when faced with other cultures and traditions.

chrysostom
October 16th, 2011, 10:19 AM
Why engage in unfounded futurism when the imagery makes sense within the historical context of the book? Put aside your irrational hatred of Islam for just one second and do not read your own prejudice into texts that were written 800-900 years before Islam was even founded.

The four beasts in Daniel 7 are: Babylonians, Persians, Medes and the Greek empire of Alexander the great.
The ten horns are the ten kings of the Seleucid empire that preceeded Antiochus IV Epiphanes who is referred to in Daniel 7:25 for persecuting Jews and attempting to destroy Judaism so they would adapt Greek customs.
It also matches the entire theme of the Book of Daniel which is to preserve Judaism when faced with other cultures and traditions.

how is the Greek empire different from all the others?

Selaphiel
October 16th, 2011, 10:23 AM
how is the Greek empire different from all the others?

How about you finish the verse? They are different in that the author thinks they will conquer the entire earth, which probably was not too crazy of an idea to have about the Greek empire of Alexander the great in that time.
The king (Antiochus IV Epiphanes) is different in that he attempts to suppress Judaism in a very militant fashion.

Your reading is simply another example of reading present hatred into ancient texts in an attempt to justify it. It has been done so many times throughout the history of scriptural interpretation, just as wrong every SINGLE time. You can read whatever you want into texts like that if you want it bad enough, which is an excellent reason for understanding the text in its historical context.

chrysostom
October 16th, 2011, 10:24 AM
How about you finish the verse? They are different in that the author thinks they will conquer the entire earth.

what the author thinks?

isn't this just more than the opinion of Daniel?

what verse?

jerzy
October 16th, 2011, 10:29 AM
The four beasts in Daniel 7 are: Babylonians, Persians, Medes and the Greek empire of Alexander the great.

Is that how they come about in Da 2?

Selaphiel
October 16th, 2011, 10:30 AM
what the author thinks?

isn't this just more than the opinion of Daniel?

what verse?

It is a prophecy about the era of the author. As is typical of most Old Testament prophecy, they are about current situations.

The verse is the same you alluded to with your question, Daniel 7:23:

"Thus he said: 'The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it."

jerzy
October 16th, 2011, 10:31 AM
They are different in that the author thinks...

The author (God) thinks and He is proven wrong.

chrysostom
October 16th, 2011, 10:41 AM
It is a prophecy about the era of the author. As is typical of most Old Testament prophecy, they are about current situations.

The verse is the same you alluded to with your question, Daniel 7:23:

"Thus he said: 'The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it."

prophecy about current situations?

that does not make sense

who currently has the best chance at conquering the world?

Selaphiel
October 16th, 2011, 10:48 AM
prophecy about current situations?

that does not make sense

who currently has the best chance at conquering the world?

That is because you bring certain popular connotations with you when define prophecy. Read the Old Testament prophets, there are plenty of prophecies about immediate situations (The Syro-Ephraimite war in Isaiah is one example of this), it is the norm rather than the exception.

You can keep your wild conspiracy theories about Islam to yourself. They are not attempting to conquer the world anymore than anyone else. As for potential to conquer the world: The west and China are far more powerful empires. Of course, the book of Daniel is not about those either anymore than it was about the nazis during WW2 or the Soviets during the cold war.

chrysostom
October 16th, 2011, 10:54 AM
You can keep your wild conspiracy theories about Islam to yourself.

sorry it's my job

OMEGA
October 31st, 2011, 05:09 PM
Daniel 7:25 refers to the last 3 1/2 years before Armageddon.

Da 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

OMEGA
October 31st, 2011, 05:25 PM
The end time "beast" or political structure from the Book of Revelation
says that the PRIMARY characteristic is that of a "leopard."

Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard , and
his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion:
and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority .

What does this Leopard Represent? Turn to the Book of Daniel for the
answer. Here we find Daniel's vision describing the successive "World"
empires.

THE FIRST KINGDOM WAS BABYLON
Daniel 7:4 The first was like a lion , and had eagle's wings: I beheld
till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth,
and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it .
THE SECOND KINGDOM WAS MEDIO-PERSIA
Daniel 7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it
raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it
between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much
flesh.
THE THIRD KINGDOM IS THAT OF ALEXANDER THE GREAT (GRECIAN)
Daniel 7:6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which
had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four
heads; and dominion was given to it .
This " leopard " was divided into 4 "heads." The kingdom of Alexander the
Great was divided into Thrace, Macedonia, Syria, and Egypt . The final
kingdom of Revelation 13:2 has the body of a " leopard ". Therefore, the
primary attribute of the final kingdom is that of Alexander the Great's.
See Assyria for more information . This is not the EU (European Union).
THE FINAL KINGDOM FOR THE ENDTIME
Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth
beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great
iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with
the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before
it; and it had ten horns .

Notice that a " little horn " arises " before whom THREE of the FIRST
HORNS are PLUCKED UP BY THE ROOTS ."

Daniel 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them
another little horn , before whom there were three of the first horns
plucked up by the roots : and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the
eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things .

Continuing with Daniel's endtime beast, we see that " another...shall
SUBDUE THREE KINGS ."

Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that
shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse
from the first, and he shall subdue three kings .

We have already shown that the body of this beast is a " leopard ". What
territory predominates from Alexander the Great's (leopard) kingdom? -
Answer: Assyria.

Where was this kingdom of Assyria? Follow these links to read about the
Modern territories of Jordan , Syria , Iraq , and Iran (all 4 part of
ancient Assyria). Three of these are on the "Axis of Evil" list (Syria,
Iraq, Iran).. Other potential possibilities for the "three horns" are
Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt. [ When this was originally written, it was
BEFORE the Iraq war. Now that Iraq has been invaded, this takes Iraq off
the candidates list. ] However, see 04-13-2002 and 11-16-2003 below.

Now, where is this leading us?

Therefore, if the "leopard" body (Assyria) is the primary part of the
kingdom, would not many of its "horns" be found there too, including the
"other...diverse from the first"? The "other" is the antichrist. These
"three kings" he will "subdue."


Alexander's empire stretched over Europe, Africa (Egypt) and parts of Asia
More on Asia Minor where a great deal of Alexander's conquests show on the map.
Asia Minor, extreme W Asia, generally coterminous with Asian Turkey, also called
Anatolia, is bordered by the Black Sea in the north, the Mediterranean Sea in
the south, and the Aegean Sea in the west. The Black and Aegean seas are linked
by the Sea of Marmara and the two straits of the Bosporus and the Dardanelles.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

genuineoriginal
October 31st, 2011, 05:34 PM
the beasts of Daniel

I now think we need to use the Jewish temple to tie the four together

The four beasts of Daniel 7 are the four empires that control the land of Israel from the time of the destruction of the Temple by the Chaldeans to the destruction of the Temple by the Romans.

The four beasts are the Chaldean empire, the Media-Persian empire, the Seleucid empire, and the Roman empire.

chrysostom
November 1st, 2011, 05:04 AM
The four beasts of Daniel 7 are the four empires that control the land of Israel from the time of the destruction of the Temple by the Chaldeans to the destruction of the Temple by the Romans.

The four beasts are the Chaldean empire, the Media-Persian empire, the Seleucid empire, and the Roman empire.

how is the Roman empire different from all the others?

Gerald
November 1st, 2011, 02:04 PM
sorry it's my jobHow much are you being paid?

chrysostom
November 1st, 2011, 03:13 PM
How much are you being paid?

haven't been paid yet
but
I believe I will be

it is one of those things that you just want to do

I have been obsessed with it for over 15 years

Jacob
November 1st, 2011, 05:08 PM
how is the Roman empire different from all the others?
The four beast of Daniel... one hypothesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_7).This hypothesis is different it appears, but still has the Roman Empire as the fourth empire.

And the historicism view in this link says the fourth beast is not the Roman empire.

chrysostom
November 1st, 2011, 05:27 PM
And the historicism view in this link says the fourth beast is not the Roman empire.

and I agree

Jacob
November 1st, 2011, 05:48 PM
and I agreeI don't know what to believe, which is why I think it would be important to start with the first beast.

chrysostom
November 2nd, 2011, 02:19 AM
I don't know what to believe, which is why I think it would be important to start with the first beast.

most agree it was Babylon

jerzy
November 2nd, 2011, 02:39 AM
most agree it was Babylon

:thumb:

Jacob
November 2nd, 2011, 06:47 PM
most agree it was BabylonWhat about

Daniel 7:17 'These great beasts, which are four in number, are four kings who will arise from the earth.

tetelestai
November 2nd, 2011, 07:51 PM
The four beasts in Daniel 7 are: Babylonians, Persians, Medes and the Greek empire of Alexander the great.

I agree that the prophecy has nothing to do with Islam.

However, I disagree that the Persians and Medes are to be counted as two different beasts.

If we count the Medo-Persian empire as one beast, that leaves the Roman Empire as the fourth beast.

Daniel's prophecy was to conclude with the destruction of the temple in 70AD.

(Matt 24:15) “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand

It wouldn't make sense for the Roman Empire to not be included.

It's obvious that beast #1 is Babylon, but it wouldn't make sense for Daniel's prophecy to conclude with the Greek Empire, when Jesus made it clear that Daniel's prophecy was fulfilled in 70AD

tetelestai
November 2nd, 2011, 08:09 PM
I have been obsessed with it for over 15 years

Well, here is some insight.

The word "sea" represents pagan gentile nations, and the word "land" represents Israel.

(Dan 7:3) Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea.

Once you understand the representation of "land" and "sea", other verses will make sense:

(Matt 4:19) Come, follow me,” Jesus said, “and I will send you out to fish for people.”

And of course:

(Rev 21:1) Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

There are dispensationalists/futurists/pre-millennialists on TOL who actually think there will be a new planet earth with no literal seas on it.

OMEGA
November 2nd, 2011, 08:40 PM
Re 19:10 ... worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

chrysostom
November 3rd, 2011, 01:06 AM
If we count the Medo-Persian empire as one beast, that leaves the Roman Empire as the fourth beast.

how is the Roman empire different from all the others?

genuineoriginal
November 3rd, 2011, 02:18 PM
how is the Roman empire different from all the others?

It can't be represented by a mammal like the other three.

chrysostom
November 4th, 2011, 04:44 AM
It can't be represented by a mammal like the other three.

how is that significant?

genuineoriginal
November 4th, 2011, 04:19 PM
how is that significant?

If you really want to find out how the Roman Empire was different from the preceding empires, look at Roman Law and governance.

In the preceding empires, the King was the law. In the Roman Empire, the law was separate from the King.

In the preceding empires, the governance was done only by royalty. In the Roman Empire, the governance was done by a ruling body comprised of the aristocracy and the plebeians under a system of checks and balances that used a separation of powers and followed the guidelines outlined in a constitution.

chrysostom
November 5th, 2011, 02:28 AM
If you really want to find out how the Roman Empire was different from the preceding empires, look at Roman Law and governance.

In the preceding empires, the King was the law. In the Roman Empire, the law was separate from the King.

In the preceding empires, the governance was done only by royalty. In the Roman Empire, the governance was done by a ruling body comprised of the aristocracy and the plebeians under a system of checks and balances that used a separation of powers and followed the guidelines outlined in a constitution.

most think that the Roman Empire is one of the beasts of Revelation

do you agree?

genuineoriginal
November 5th, 2011, 02:41 AM
most think that the Roman Empire is one of the beasts of Revelation

do you agree?

No.

The beast of Revelation 13 has traits similar to all four beasts of Daniel 7, but doesn't match any of them.

The time of the four beasts ended a long time ago.
The beast of Revelation 13 is an empire that will be in existence at the time of the return of Jesus.

chrysostom
November 5th, 2011, 02:50 AM
No.

The beast of Revelation 13 has traits similar to all four beasts of Daniel 7, but doesn't match any of them.

The time of the four beasts ended a long time ago.
The beast of Revelation 13 is an empire that will be in existence at the time of the return of Jesus.

so why doesn't it say 'Christ will reign' in Rev 20?

genuineoriginal
November 5th, 2011, 02:53 AM
so why doesn't it say 'Christ will reign' in Rev 20?

I already gave you the answer in the premillennialism thread.

chrysostom
November 5th, 2011, 02:56 AM
I already gave you the answer in the premillennialism thread.

and you can't repeat it?

chrysostom
January 13th, 2014, 07:17 AM
Daniel 7:24
King James Version (KJV)
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Revelation 17:12
King James Version (KJV)
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

the fourth beast of daniel
and
the second beast of revelation
both
have ten horns

genuineoriginal
January 13th, 2014, 07:28 PM
and you can't repeat it?
Your timeline is off.
You have people reigning while Christ is absent from the earth, then being beheaded and staying dead.

Here is what the scripture states:

Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Here is the correct timeline according to scripture:
First the people witness about Jesus and the word of God.
Then they refuse to worship the beast.
Then they are beheaded.
Then they are resurrected.
Then they reign with Christ for 1000 years when He rules the nations with a rod of iron.

Saved.One.by.Grace
January 14th, 2014, 10:38 AM
what the author thinks?

isn't this just more than the opinion of Daniel?

what verse?

Wait a minute. You don't believe the book of Daniel was inspired by God? It's not Daniel's opinion, it's God's word. That's good enough for me.

chrysostom
January 14th, 2014, 10:41 AM
Wait a minute. You don't believe the book of Daniel was inspired by God? It's not Daniel's opinion, it's God's word. That's good enough for me.

of course I believe that

you have to look at what I was responding to
which
I didn't appreciate at all

Saved.One.by.Grace
January 14th, 2014, 10:52 AM
No.

The beast of Revelation 13 has traits similar to all four beasts of Daniel 7, but doesn't match any of them.

The time of the four beasts ended a long time ago.
The beast of Revelation 13 is an empire that will be in existence at the time of the return of Jesus.
True.

The beast of Revelation 13 will form within territories Daniel has wrote about, but it won't be the same beast. Premillenials have the correct chronology of events between Daniel, Matthew 24-28 and the Revelation of John.

chrysostom
January 14th, 2014, 10:57 AM
True.

The beast of Revelation 13 will form within territories Daniel has wrote about, but it won't be the same beast. Premillenials have the correct chronology of events between Daniel, Matthew 24-28 and the Revelation of John.

how can you ignore the fact that the fourth beast of daniel and the second beast of revelation both have ten horns?

Saved.One.by.Grace
January 14th, 2014, 11:00 AM
of course I believe that

you have to look at what I was responding to
which
I didn't appreciate at all

I jumped the gun on you here. I apologize. I disagree with the point you're trying to make though.

chrysostom
January 14th, 2014, 11:02 AM
I jumped the gun on you here. I apologize. I disagree with the point you're trying to make though.

can you do it reasonably?

Saved.One.by.Grace
January 14th, 2014, 11:09 AM
how can you ignore the fact that the fourth beast of daniel and the second beast of revelation both have ten horns?

The Jewish Religion has an attachment to numbers. Books have been written about Jews and numbers. Maybe that's why I like them so much. I had thought of becoming a Mathematician at one time, before I ended up as a Design Engineer. Numbers like ten and twelve, six and seven, etc, show up throughout the Bible. I think of God as the Ultimate Engineer since He designed and holds together the Universe.

The fact that ten is referred to in two different prophesies, by two different authors, for two different times. I don't find that significant.

chrysostom
January 14th, 2014, 11:11 AM
The Jewish Religion has an attachment to numbers. Books have been written about Jews and numbers. Maybe that's why I like them so much. I had thought of becoming a Mathematician at one time, before I ended up as a Design Engineer. Numbers like ten and twelve, six and seven, etc, show up throughout the Bible. I think of God as the Ultimate Engineer since He designed and holds together the Universe.

The fact that ten is referred to in two different prophesies, by two different authors, for two different times. I don't find that significant.

the second author was well aware of the first
and
would not use ten horns
if
there was no connection

Saved.One.by.Grace
January 14th, 2014, 11:14 AM
It can't be represented by a mammal like the other three.

What is your rationale behind this statement? Please be specific to this statement only, mainly because we are in agreement on most everything else, at least I think we are.

Saved.One.by.Grace
January 14th, 2014, 11:17 AM
the second author was well aware of the first
and
would not use ten horns
if
there was no connection

The second author, John, would record what he saw. If he saw ten, ten is what he would record. He was inspired by the Holy Spirit. I don't see the connection you see.

Saved.One.by.Grace
January 14th, 2014, 11:22 AM
Have I been reasonable enough? My lunch break is coming to an end. I may not have enough time for further discussions until much later.

chrysostom
January 14th, 2014, 11:29 AM
The second author, John, would record what he saw. If he saw ten, ten is what he would record. He was inspired by the Holy Spirit. I don't see the connection you see.

well open your eyes
the author of revelation borrows heavily from the old testament
and
it is not an accident

Saved.One.by.Grace
January 14th, 2014, 01:39 PM
This is going to be a respectful conversation right? Telling me to open my eyes doesn't seem all that respectful to me! You are the one touting this Science Fiction writer as an equal to Biblical scholars.

Posted from the TOL App!

genuineoriginal
January 14th, 2014, 04:13 PM
What is your rationale behind this statement? Please be specific to this statement only, mainly because we are in agreement on most everything else, at least I think we are.

The prophecy of Daniel 7 has four beasts.
The first three beasts are represented by known animals: a lion, a bear, and a leopard.
Unlike the other three beasts, the fourth beast is not described by comparing it to a known animal.

The description claims that it is diverse from the other three.

Daniel 7:7
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

The description is unusual and makes it seem to be comparable to Leviathan and Behemoth, dinosaurs (dragons) from the book of Job.

http://www.eborg2.com/Spiritual/BibleLists/Daniel-FourBeasts.jpg
http://www.quickandpowerful.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/4beasts.jpg

The fourth beast is completely different in this respect from the beast of Revelation 13, which is described as being like the first three beasts of Daniel 7 instead of being described as being diverse from them as the fourth beast was.

Revelation 13:1-2
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Saved.One.by.Grace
January 14th, 2014, 08:43 PM
The prophecy of Daniel 7 has four beasts.
The first three beasts are represented by known animals: a lion, a bear, and a leopard.
Unlike the other three beasts, the fourth beast is not described by comparing it to a known animal.

The description claims that it is diverse from the other three.


Daniel 7:7


7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.


The fourth beast is completely different in this respect from the beast of Revelation 13, which is described as being like the first three beasts of Daniel 7 instead of being described as being diverse from them as the fourth beast was.


Revelation 13:1-2

1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.



What makes more sense to me is that the beast in Revelation is a hybrid of the beasts of Daniel, not the same as any one of them. The Bible Knowledge Commentary, a Conservative Commentary from scholars at the Dallas Theological Seminary, state the following:

The beast out of the sea introduced (Rev_13:1-2)
Rev_13:1-18 presents a most important personage of the end time — a beast coming out of the sea. His 10 horns and 7 heads, with 10 crowns on his horns, depict the revived Roman Empire, which was also represented by the fourth beast of Daniel, which also had 10 horns (Dan_7:7-8; cf. Rev_13:3; Rev_17:3, Rev_17:7). In Rev_13:1-18 and Rev_17:1-18 the beast is the world ruler, whereas in Dan_7:1-28 the little horn on the beast was the world ruler.
The fact that the beast comes out from the sea indicates that he is a Gentile, for the sea of humanity is involved as his source (cf. Rev_17:15).
Many have said that the beast refers to some character in past history, but the context clearly refers to the final three and one-half years before Christ’s second coming. Under the control of this central ruler in the Middle East during the Great Tribulation will be 10 nations (cf. Dan_7:24, "The 10 horns are 10 kings"). (For discussion of various alternative views, see Walvoord, Revelation, pp. 198-99.)
In Rev_13:2 the beast was seen to gather in the symbolism of the three preceding empires — Greece (a leopard, cf. Dan_7:6), Medo-Persia (a bear, cf. Dan_7:5), and Babylon (a lion, cf. Dan_7:4). The power of the beast was derived from Satan himself: the dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. This accords with Paul (2Th_2:9) who referred to "the lawless one" (i.e., the Antichrist, this first beast of Rev_13:1-18) as working "all kinds of counterfeit miracles [dynamei], signs [sēmeiois], and wonders [terasin]."
Maybe this is what you're trying to say. But to say John borrowed from Daniel is to lessen John's Revelation. I take exception to that.

chrysostom
January 15th, 2014, 10:31 AM
This is going to be a respectful conversation right? Telling me to open my eyes doesn't seem all that respectful to me! You are the one touting this Science Fiction writer as an equal to Biblical scholars.

Posted from the TOL App!

sorry but you seem to be ignoring the connection between daniel and revelation

chrysostom
January 15th, 2014, 10:35 AM
What makes more sense to me is that the beast in Revelation is a hybrid of the beasts of Daniel, not the same as any one of them.

the beast of revelation
was, is not, and is to come
that is why the first has seven heads and ten horns
the second which is of the first only has ten horns like the fourth beast of daniel

genuineoriginal
January 15th, 2014, 11:08 PM
What makes more sense to me is that the beast in Revelation is a hybrid of the beasts of Daniel, not the same as any one of them. The Bible Knowledge Commentary, a Conservative Commentary from scholars at the Dallas Theological Seminary, state the following:
The Dispensationalists from the Dallas Theological Seminary mean well, but their interpretations of Daniel and Revelation form an errant eschatology.

Maybe this is what you're trying to say. But to say John borrowed from Daniel is to lessen John's Revelation. I take exception to that.
John was shown a vision of what would take place from the time that the tribulation began in 70 CE until the time Jesus returned to set up His kingdom, and beyond.

The beast that John was shown is like all four of the beasts that Daniel was shown. John did not borrow from Daniel. John was shown a vision of a time unrelated to the time of Daniel's prophecy. In the time of John's prophecy, the world power will be an empire that is a hybrid of the four empires from Daniel's prophecy.

chrysostom
January 17th, 2014, 11:39 AM
John was shown a vision of what would take place from the time that the tribulation began in 70 CE until the time Jesus returned to set up His kingdom, and beyond.

what is that based on?

genuineoriginal
January 17th, 2014, 02:06 PM
what is that based on?

The prophecy in Daniel 7 about the four beasts (empires) was brought to a close in 37 CE at the end of the 490 year prophecy of Daniel 9 when the children of Israel failed to repent in fulfillment of Jeremiah 18:9-10.

Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 CE to fulfill the prophecy from Jesus in the Olivet Discourse (Luke 21), and the end of the war made the land desolate by 73 CE in fulfillment of Daniel 9:27.

These events of the Roman/Jewish war of 70-73 CE are represented by the four horsemen of the apocalypse recorded in Revelation 6:1-8.

The remaining years of the great tribulation from 73 CE till this time are represented by the fifth seal.

Revelation 7:9-17 gives the account of the large number of Jews and Gentiles from every nationality and tongue that became believers during the time of the great tribulation.

The sixth seal is about the signs in the stars, moon, and sun that happen immediately after the end of the great tribulation (Matthew 24:29; Revelation 6:12-14.

The time of the beast in Revelation 13:1 is the last 3-1/2 years of the time of the seven trumpets.

chrysostom
January 18th, 2014, 06:01 AM
The prophecy in Daniel 7 about the four beasts (empires) was brought to a close in 37 CE at the end of the 490 year prophecy of Daniel 9 when the children of Israel failed to repent in fulfillment of Jeremiah 18:9-10.

Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 CE to fulfill the prophecy from Jesus in the Olivet Discourse (Luke 21), and the end of the war made the land desolate by 73 CE in fulfillment of Daniel 9:27.

These events of the Roman/Jewish war of 70-73 CE are represented by the four horsemen of the apocalypse recorded in Revelation 6:1-8.

The remaining years of the great tribulation from 73 CE till this time are represented by the fifth seal.

Revelation 7:9-17 gives the account of the large number of Jews and Gentiles from every nationality and tongue that became believers during the time of the great tribulation.

The sixth seal is about the signs in the stars, moon, and sun that happen immediately after the end of the great tribulation (Matthew 24:29; Revelation 6:12-14.

The time of the beast in Revelation 13:1 is the last 3-1/2 years of the time of the seven trumpets.

I have no idea what you are talking about

Saved.One.by.Grace
January 18th, 2014, 02:47 PM
The Dispensationalists from the Dallas Theological Seminary mean well, but their interpretations of Daniel and Revelation form an errant eschatology.

John was shown a vision of what would take place from the time that the tribulation began in 70 CE until the time Jesus returned to set up His kingdom, and beyond.

The beast that John was shown is like all four of the beasts that Daniel was shown. John did not borrow from Daniel. John was shown a vision of a time unrelated to the time of Daniel's prophecy. In the time of John's prophecy, the world power will be an empire that is a hybrid of the four empires from Daniel's prophecy.

John wrote Revelation in 94 AD, not 70 AD. That's a well known error people make trying to push a liberal point of view with respect to biblical interpretation.

Saved.One.by.Grace
January 18th, 2014, 02:52 PM
sorry but you seem to be ignoring the connection between daniel and revelation

Hardly. I mentioned early in our conversation I studied Daniel in depth which lead me to Matthew 24-28 and Revelation as well as various other scriptures.

Saved.One.by.Grace
January 18th, 2014, 03:01 PM
the beast of revelation
was, is not, and is to come
that is why the first has seven heads and ten horns
the second which is of the first only has ten horns like the fourth beast of daniel

By parsing your above response, you seem to imply support for an earlier writing of Revelation, not 94 AD as commonly accepted by Biblical scholars. If this is so, further discussion on this matter seems pointless.

chrysostom
January 18th, 2014, 04:00 PM
By parsing your above response, you seem to imply support for an earlier writing of Revelation, not 94 AD as commonly accepted by Biblical scholars. If this is so, further discussion on this matter seems pointless.

you got that right

do you know why John mentions his name three times in the first chapter?

there are three different ones

the first is John the Baptist

and that is the truth

Saved.One.by.Grace
January 18th, 2014, 04:05 PM
you got that right

do you know why John mentions his name three times in the first chapter?

there are three different ones

the first is John the Baptist

and that is the truth

:kookoo:

chrysostom
January 18th, 2014, 04:09 PM
:kookoo:

do you know Victorinus of Pettau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorinus_of_Pettau)?

yeshuaslavejeff
January 18th, 2014, 04:17 PM
.....

chrysostom
January 18th, 2014, 04:21 PM
do you know (experientially) Yhwh ?

I don't know what that means

Tambora
July 22nd, 2014, 04:05 PM
The first three beasts of Daniel are described with animal characteristics of known earthly creatures.
lion
bear
leopard

But the fourth beast is described with characteristics of no known earthly animal.

Could it be that the fourth beast is different from the rest because it is like an unearthly creature?


Ephesians 6 KJV
(12) For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

genuineoriginal
July 22nd, 2014, 11:45 PM
John wrote Revelation in 94 AD, not 70 AD. That's a well known error people make trying to push a liberal point of view with respect to biblical interpretation.

Revelation was written before 70 CE (http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/revelation.html).

The only reference used to claim it was written in 94 CE is a remark from Eusebius during the time of the first council of Nicaea.
Eusebius claimed that Irenaeus said that Polycarp saw something, presumably the book of Revelation, near the end of Domitian's reign.

The internal evidence of the book of Revelation shows that it was written before 70 CE.

chrysostom
May 30th, 2015, 01:58 PM
The first three beasts of Daniel are described with animal characteristics of known earthly creatures.
lion
bear
leopard

But the fourth beast is described with characteristics of no known earthly animal.

Could it be that the fourth beast is different from the rest because it is like an unearthly creature?


Ephesians 6 KJV
(12) For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

the first beast of the apocalypse was like a leopard

jamie
May 30th, 2015, 02:06 PM
The ten horns of the fourth beast are ten successive governments that heal the deadly wound suffered by the seventh head (Roman Empire) in 410 CE (Daniel 7:23-24)(Revelation 13:3).

Another little horn (Daniel 7:24) subdued three of the Roman governments and plucked them up by the roots (Daniel 7:8). The little horn presents itself as a lamb; it appears to represent Christ, but it actually speaks on behalf of Satan (Revelation 13:11). This is the pseudo-Christian church of Revelation 17.

The third instance of the seven-headed symbol is in Revelation 17:3. The seven heads portray the last seven of the ten horns of the fourth beast (Revelation 17:9-10).

The first three horns of the fourth beast were plucked up by the little horn (Daniel 7:8). The seven horns that are left are represented in Revelation 17 as seven heads. These seven heads represent seven successive resurrections of the political system sanctioned by the little horn church (Revelation 17:1-10).

The ten horns represent ten concurrent governments (Revelation 17:12-13). These ten horns correspond to the ten toes of the image seen in the dream of Nebuchadnezzar (Daniel 2:31-35).

At the last trumpet, Christ will smash the toes of the fourth beast and set up the Kingdom of God (Daniel 2:34).

keypurr
May 31st, 2015, 02:28 PM
how is the Roman empire different from all the others?

It's what came after the Roman Empire. A different kind of beast arose. One that made it rough for the saints. The Church itself.

chrysostom
June 16th, 2015, 06:46 AM
the king of the south must be the Umayyad Caliphate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_Caliphate), which established the dome of the rock, the abomination of desolation
and
this makes islam the fourth beast of daniel

chrysostom
July 15th, 2015, 04:40 AM
the king of the south must be the Umayyad Caliphate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_Caliphate), which established the dome of the rock, the abomination of desolation
and
this makes islam the fourth beast of daniel

still working on this
but
the umayyad caliphate is the king of the north
and
chapter 11 is all about the struggle between muawiyah who started the umayyad caliphate
and
ali who married fatimah, the daughter of mohammed and khadija

Daniel 11:6 (KJV)

6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times.

chrysostom
August 1st, 2015, 09:28 AM
Observations Upon The Prophecies Of Daniel And The Apocalypse Of St. John (http://www.amazon.com/Observations-Upon-Prophecies-Daniel-Apocalypse/dp/1603864024)

by isaac newton

he also believes the last two beasts of daniel are the two beasts of the apocalypse
and
he also believes mohammed is the king of the south

go figure

I am now reading it a second time

chrysostom
August 2nd, 2015, 05:51 AM
Observations Upon The Prophecies Of Daniel And The Apocalypse Of St. John (http://www.amazon.com/Observations-Upon-Prophecies-Daniel-Apocalypse/dp/1603864024)

by isaac newton

he also believes the last two beasts of daniel are the two beasts of the apocalypse
and
he also believes mohammed is the king of the south

go figure

I am now reading it a second time

you can read this online

Part II. Observations upon the Apocalypse of St. John.
Chap. 3. (https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/newton_isaac/prophecies/apocalypse03.cfm)

chrysostom
August 3rd, 2015, 04:32 AM
The fifth trumpet sounded to the wars, which the King of the South, as he is called by Daniel, made in the time of the end, in pushing at the King who did according to his will. This plague began with the opening of the bottomless pit, which denotes the letting out of a false religion: (https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/newton_isaac/prophecies/apocalypse03.cfm)

isaac newton
connects daniel and the apocalypse

chrysostom
August 4th, 2015, 05:09 AM
The third and fourth Beasts of Daniel are the same with the Dragon and ten-horned Beast of John, but with this difference (https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/newton_isaac/prophecies/apocalypse03.cfm)

I also agree the last two beasts of daniel are the two beasts of the apocalypse
but
I don't agree with the difference

dialm
August 4th, 2015, 09:40 AM
the beasts of Daniel


we need to use the Jewish temple to tie the four together
or
in other words

don't mess with the temple

The first two temples were destroyed by the Babylonian and Roman empires
so
they have to be our first two candidates
now
what is preventing the third temple?

the Dome of the Rock
so
Islam is our third candidate
and
different from all the rest

we are really looking for the second beast
since
Babylonian would be the first
Roman would be the third
Islam the fourth
so
that leaves us with the Median, Persian, and Greek kingdoms
and
all you have to do is ask which one messed with the temple
and
as it turns out Antiochus IV Epiphanes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiochus_IV_Epiphanes) in 167 BC took over the second temple an installed the Greek god for them to worship
so
the Babylonian, Greek, and Roman empires
and
Islam are the four beasts of Daniel

I will also show how the last two beasts of Daniel are the two beasts of Revelation (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3750229#post3750229)

Maybe this is why you can't discern morality? Busy chasing ghosts. Halloween will soon be here. I'm partial to pope outfits.

chrysostom
August 4th, 2015, 10:17 AM
Maybe this is why you can't discern morality? Busy chasing ghosts. Halloween will soon be here. I'm partial to pope outfits.

so what are you chasing?

the thread is clearly identified
and
the post is a reasonable position

you don't need to understand this
you just have to let others do it

HisServant
August 4th, 2015, 10:24 AM
Why would God forsake his son and allow a 3rd temple to be built?

chrysostom
August 4th, 2015, 10:27 AM
Why would God forsake his son and allow a 3rd temple to be built?

why should we be discussing this?

chrysostom
October 13th, 2015, 01:46 PM
babylon
greese
rome
islam

genuineoriginal
October 13th, 2015, 04:01 PM
babylon
greese
rome
islam

Chaldea
Medio-Persia
Macedonia
Rome

chrysostom
November 4th, 2015, 05:14 PM
I think it has something to do with the temple

chrysostom
November 18th, 2015, 04:27 AM
don't mess with the temple

it makes you a beast

chrysostom
December 4th, 2015, 04:48 AM
the two beasts of the apocalypse
are
the last two beasts of daniel

chrysostom
December 26th, 2015, 05:09 AM
mohammed was the king of the south dan 11:16 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+11:6&version=KJV)
fatimah was his daughter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatimah)

JosephR
December 26th, 2015, 07:02 AM
mohammed was the king of the south dan 11:16 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+11:6&version=KJV)
fatimah was his daughter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatimah)

you are the army of the North....

JosephR
December 26th, 2015, 07:04 AM
and the Prophet wrote... the army of the North and of the South will stand against Yisrael...

and they both shall be smited by HaShem....

but a blessing also is in the book..

and Lo, our Prince Michael, will stand for the just.

chrysostom
December 26th, 2015, 07:11 AM
you are the army of the North....

shirely, you can't be serious

the king of the north
is
the Umayyad Caliphate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_Caliphate)
and
it is responsible for the

abomination of desolation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abomination_of_desolation)

JosephR
December 26th, 2015, 07:16 AM
shirely, you can't be serious

the king of the north
is
the Umayyad Caliphate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_Caliphate)
and
it is responsible for the

abomination of desolation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abomination_of_desolation)

Yes ROME did make the abomination of desolation as it was LAW to put a statue of the Roman God man in every temple.. word for word.. you are that..

JosephR
December 26th, 2015, 07:17 AM
shirley you may read some history now........

False Prophet
December 26th, 2015, 10:26 AM
The first beast was Babylon.
36 “That was your dream. Now we will tell the king what it means. 37 O king, you are the greatest king. God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength, and glory. 38 Wherever people, wild animals, and birds live, God made you ruler over them. King Nebuchadnezzar, you are the head of gold on that statue. Dan 2
Daniel identifies the first beast here. Nebuchadrezzar was king of Babylon. The head of gold, the breast of silver, the belly of brass, and the feet of iron make up the statue. Babylon is the first beast.
9 “Another kingdom will come after you, but it will not be as great as yours. Next a third kingdom, the bronze part, will rule over the earth. 40 Then there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron. In the same way that iron crushes and smashes things to pieces, the fourth kingdom will smash and crush all the other kingdoms. Dan 2
The next kingdom or beast is Persia. The beasts are identified as four great kingdoms that rule the earth. The center of the world at that time was the fertile crescent.
17 ‘The four great animals are four kingdoms that will come from the earth. 18 But the holy people who belong to the Most High God will receive the power to rule and will have the power to rule forever, from now on.’ Dan 7
Babylon fell to Cyrus after the fall of the Assyrian Empire. Nineveh was razed to the ground by Caxeres the Mede and Nabopolazzar the Chaldean in 612 BC. Cyrus made his decree for the Jews to return from Babylonian exile in 536 BC.
20 “You saw a male sheep with two horns, which are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 The male goat is the king of Greece, and the big horn between its eyes is the first king. 22 The four horns that grew in the place of the broken horn are four kingdoms. Those four kingdoms will come from the nation of the first king, but they will not be as strong as the first king. Dan 8
Alexander the Great was the first king, and his kingdom was divided up after his death. Ptolomy took over Egypt, and Seleucus took over Syria. Greece and Turkey made up the other two kingdoms. They all fell to Rome after the Punic Wars; the beast that was, that is not , and will rise again.

False Prophet
December 26th, 2015, 10:28 AM
The king of the north is Syria, and the king of the south is Egypt. Greece was separated into four kingdoms after the death of Alexander the Great in Babylon.

chrysostom
December 26th, 2015, 11:09 AM
The king of the north is Syria, and the king of the south is Egypt. Greece was separated into four kingdoms after the death of Alexander the Great in Babylon.

so who placed the abomination of desolation?

daqq
December 26th, 2015, 01:12 PM
so who placed the abomination of desolation?

The first type was Antiochus IV Epiphanes and the primary fullfilment came to pass by way of Ananus ben Seth, (woe to the house of Ananus ben Seth! who by the arms of the branches of his family members, whom he set up within the court of the holy place, turned the House of Prayer into a house of slaughter and blood). But now, by the Testimony of Yeshua, the desolating abomination takes place in the heart: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the eyes of Elohim, (Luke 16:15) and the man is the temple of Elohim.

Interplanner
December 27th, 2015, 07:36 AM
The first type was Antiochus IV Epiphanes and the primary fullfilment came to pass by way of Ananus ben Seth, (woe to the house of Ananus ben Seth! who by the arms of the branches of his family members, whom he set up within the court of the holy place, turned the House of Prayer into a house of slaughter and blood). But now, by the Testimony of Yeshua, the desolating abomination takes place in the heart: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the eyes of Elohim, (Luke 16:15) and the man is the temple of Elohim.


Sorry Daqq, way off.

There is only one direct NT interp of the AofD and it is saying that it is a person who will be in the temple (mistaken as Messiah Mk 13:6, 21), in the 1st century at the end of that generation. When that is seen, or any rumor of it coming, the Christians of that generation were supposed to get the heck out. They left Judea and went to were many of the Christian leaders were, Little Asia, which is why there are 7 churches John writes to.

In Dan 8:13, the AofD as an expression actually began as the 'rebellion that desolates.' The rebellious leader would ruin the country says ch 8, while the exact timeline for that is in 9, overshadowed by the Gospel of what Messiah accomplishes before it. Only 9:27 picks up where ch 8 left off.

Both Josephus and Caiaphas were aware of this figure coming along. Caiaphas thought he could intervene; that he could keep the nation alive by appeasing Rome with the sacrifice of Christ, Jn 12, 18. But the rebellion problem was way too deep and was generated by Judaising. The only cure for Judaizing was faith in the Gospel and work in its mission; ask Paul!

Tragically the AofD leader did ruin the country at the end of that generation.

daqq
December 27th, 2015, 10:22 AM
Sorry Daqq, way off.

There is only one direct NT interp of the AofD and it is saying that it is a person who will be in the temple (mistaken as Messiah Mk 13:6, 21), in the 1st century at the end of that generation. When that is seen, or any rumor of it coming, the Christians of that generation were supposed to get the heck out. They left Judea and went to were many of the Christian leaders were, Little Asia, which is why there are 7 churches John writes to.

In Dan 8:13, the AofD as an expression actually began as the 'rebellion that desolates.' The rebellious leader would ruin the country says ch 8, while the exact timeline for that is in 9, overshadowed by the Gospel of what Messiah accomplishes before it. Only 9:27 picks up where ch 8 left off.

Both Josephus and Caiaphas were aware of this figure coming along. Caiaphas thought he could intervene; that he could keep the nation alive by appeasing Rome with the sacrifice of Christ, Jn 12, 18. But the rebellion problem was way too deep and was generated by Judaising. The only cure for Judaizing was faith in the Gospel and work in its mission; ask Paul!

Tragically the AofD leader did ruin the country at the end of that generation.

Sorry Interplanner, it is you who are way off, and the reasons you are way off are because of the Preterist historical fullfilment paradigm and for denying that your body is the temple of Elohim. The Master only uses bdelugma three times in all of the Gospel accounts and two of them are companion passages recording the same statement from the Olivet Discourse in Matthew and Mark. Therefore Yeshua employs the word bdelugma only twice in all of his earthly ministry, that is, at least according to what we have written. The one statement therefore expounds the other for those who put their faith and trust in the Teacher Yeshua. For those who do not believe him and his words: please feel free to continue making up your own private interplanner interpretations and plans but do not expect to begin to have the veil removed from your heart, mind, and eyes when you read such things, until your heart turns back to the Father. :)

Interplanner
December 27th, 2015, 10:40 AM
Sorry Interplanner, it is you who are way off, and the reasons you are way off are because of the Preterist historical fullfilment paradigm and for denying that your body is the temple of Elohim. The Master only uses bdelugma three times in all of the Gospel accounts and two of them are companion passages recording the same statement from the Olivet Discourse in Matthew and Mark. Therefore Yeshua employs the word bdelugma only twice in all of his earthly ministry, that is, at least according to what we have written. The one statement therefore expounds the other for those who put their faith and trust in the Teacher Yeshua. For those who do not believe him and his words: please feel free to continue making up your own private interplanner interpretations and plans but do not expect to begin to have the veil removed from your heart, mind, and eyes when you read such things, until your heart turns back to the Father. :)



The feel of Mt 24 etc is that it is speaking about actual realities for them to be aware of, alert to, forewarned of. There is no abstraction when it comes to AofD. You are ignoring 1st century history and commentary by Josephus and Caiaphas. You are ignoring how Dan 8&9 develop the term.

Get off of your sanctimonious horse about whether my heart is turned to the Father, and answer the real literary/historical questions. You are in no position at the far end of the i.net to say that my heart is not in step with the Father. I think it is, because I love Rom 3:21-26.

daqq
December 27th, 2015, 11:25 AM
The feel of Mt 24 etc is that it is speaking about actual realities for them to be aware of, alert to, forewarned of. There is no abstraction when it comes to AofD. You are ignoring 1st century history and commentary by Josephus and Caiaphas. You are ignoring how Dan 8&9 develop the term.

Get off of your sanctimonious horse about whether my heart is turned to the Father, and answer the real literary/historical questions. You are in no position at the far end of the i.net to say that my heart is not in step with the Father. I think it is, because I love Rom 3:21-26.

You call the Testimony of Yeshua a "sanctimonious horse" which proves yet again that you deny that your own body is the temple of Elohim by way of your flesh and physical minded doctrines. Yeshua clearly tells his disciples what things defile a man and it has everything to do with the HEART. You reveal your own heart by your own words and such a thing is acceptable to be judged because we are speaking of doctrine and the tree is known by its fruits.

Matthew 15:18-20 KJV
18. But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20. These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Luke 16:14-15 KJV
14. And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
15. And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination [bdelugma] in the sight of God.

For the same reason the beast of Revelation 13:1-5 speaks with the mouth of a lion; for what comes forth from the mouth proceeds from the heart in the doctrine of Yeshua:

Revelation 13:1-5 KJV
1. And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5. And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

And the Spirit of the Prophecy is the Testimony of Yeshua, (Rev 19:10) and the beast of the man from Revelation 13 has the mouth of a lion-like beast because his heart has been given over to the first beast of Daniel 7 which is the lion:

Daniel 4:16 KJV
16. Let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given unto him; and let seven times pass over him.

Daniel 7:4 KJV
4. The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

Yeshua expounds all things Torah and Prophets.
You simply do not fully believe his words . . . :nono:

daqq
December 27th, 2015, 12:13 PM
You are ignoring 1st century history and commentary by Josephus and Caiaphas. You are ignoring how Dan 8&9 develop the term.

You are both the head-sum of the gold, (Dan 2:38) and the tree, (Dan 4:22) O king! :crackup:
And the tree is known by his fruit, (Matthew 12:33). :)

Interplanner
December 27th, 2015, 12:35 PM
You are both the head-sum of the gold, (Dan 2:38) and the tree, (Dan 4:22) O king! :crackup:
And the tree is known by his fruit, (Matthew 12:33). :)


Let's play 'jump all over Scripture'! What about Dan 8&9 and the fact that the NT makes only one direct interp of them?

chrysostom
December 27th, 2015, 01:03 PM
You are ignoring how Dan 8&9 develop the term.

not all translations have the 'holy place'
so
they may not know what we are talking about

Daniel 9:24New International Version (NIV)

24 “Seventy ‘sevens’[a] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish[b] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.[c]

Interplanner
December 27th, 2015, 08:13 PM
True. I was referring to the 'rebellion that desolates' in 8:13 and what happened to it.

False Prophet
December 27th, 2015, 08:28 PM
Haram al-Sharif includes the Dome of the Rock, the Aqsa Mosque, and a host of other shrines. ISIS is the king of the north. The king of the north will show up in the holy place proclaiming that he is God. ISIS will enter Haram al-Sharif proclaiming that they are God.

daqq
December 27th, 2015, 08:42 PM
Let's play 'jump all over Scripture'! What about Dan 8&9 and the fact that the NT makes only one direct interp of them?

You see it as "jumping all over Scripture" because you lack the foundation in Scripture to understand what you read. It is you who is cherry picking because while you ignore the Testimony of Yeshua, as you have done just now with my previous posts, you likewise use the void that you leave so as to fill up the meaning with your own imagination and so-called historical fulfillments. My foundation is the Testimony of Yeshua which expounds these things.


True. I was referring to the 'rebellion that desolates' in 8:13 and what happened to it.

If you understood the Law according to the Testimony of Yeshua you would likewise understand what was already said as well as what you put forth now. The sons of Israel are commanded to make a little miqdash-sanctuary, patterned after the Mishkan-Tabernacle, and the reason for this is clearly stated; it is so that the Father will dwell among them:

Exodus 25:1-9
1. And YHWH spoke unto Moshe, saying:
2. Speak unto the sons of Yisrael, that they bring Me an offering: of every man that gives it willingly with his heart shall you take My offering.
3. And this is the offering which you shall take of them: gold, and silver, and brass:
4. And blue, and purple, and scarlet, and shesh-fine linen, and goats:
5. And skins of rams tanned adamim, and skins of tchashim, and shittiym-acacia thorn-wood:
6. Oil for the light, spices for anointing oil, and for sweet incense:
7. Onyx stones, and stones to be set in the ephod, and in the breastplate.
8. And let them make Me a miqdash-sanctuary-chapel, that I may dwell among them:
9. According to all that I show you, according the pattern of the Mishkan-Tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall you make it.

Which one is found in Daniel 8:11? Is it a miqdash-sanctuary, (see Ezekiel 11:16) or is it the Mishkan-Tabernacle? And what is ha-tamiyd from the same Daniel passage and its corresponding companion passages that mention tamiyd in Daniel? Tamiyd simply means "continual" and not necessarily the twice-daily "sacrifice" as it is generally rendered in most English translations. The Tamiyd concerns all of the tamiyd-continual holy things of the Mishkan Tabernacle which are the supernal holy things of the Father. Moreover the altar of adamah, (which is the earthen foundation-base of the bronze or brazen altar of sacrifice) is the altar of the heart because the first man-adam is taken from dust of the adamah-soil. The same is the adamah-soil of the heart from the Parable of the Sower. This is not new but rather hidden from the foundation of the world and revealed in Messiah, that is, by the Testimony of Messiah Yeshua. The altar of adamah is your heart because the man is the temple of Elohim:

Genesis 2:7a
7a. And Elohim formed man of the dust of the adamah

The sons of Israel are commanded to make an altar of adamah:

Exodus 20:24a
24a. An altar of adamah shall you make unto Me

The companion passage to Exodus 20:24a, by the contexts, is Deut 5:29a:

Deuteronomy 5:29a
29a. O that there were such an heart in them!

The adamah is the soil of the heart as revealed in the Parable of the Sower. The abomination of desolation takes place in the heart, just as it did with Judas "Sikariy", (whose name means "my price", Zechariah 11:12) who was a son of perdition according to typology and according to the Testimony of Yeshua, (John 17:12). The Father does not dwell in temple building structures made with the hands of men: never has, never will, (Isaiah 66:1-2, Acts 7:49-51) O stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! :chuckle:

:sheep:

chrysostom
January 18th, 2016, 05:19 AM
the fourth beast of daniel
is
the second beast of the apocalypse

genuineoriginal
January 18th, 2016, 10:17 AM
the fourth beast of daniel
is
the second beast of the apocalypse

No, there is no similarity between the two beasts.

The first beast of the apocalypse has features from all four of the beasts of Daniel, which has been misinterpreted by many who claim the first beast of the apocalypse is the same as the fourth beast of Daniel.

The second beast of the apocalypse comes from the land (of Israel) and not from the sea (of nations).

chrysostom
January 18th, 2016, 10:22 AM
No, there is no similarity between the two beasts.

The first beast of the apocalypse has features from all four of the beasts of Daniel, which has been misinterpreted by many who claim the first beast of the apocalypse is the same as the fourth beast of Daniel.

The second beast of the apocalypse comes from the land (of Israel) and not from the sea (of nations).

who do you think the two beasts are?

genuineoriginal
January 18th, 2016, 10:29 AM
who do you think the two beasts are?
My studies indicate that America would be the first beast and Israel under the two-country solution would be the second beast.

chrysostom
January 18th, 2016, 10:36 AM
My studies indicate that America would be the first beast and Israel under the two-country solution would be the second beast.

can you make that fit with the rest of the apocalypse?

chrysostom
February 10th, 2016, 07:20 AM
not everyone can make the pieces fit

Totton Linnet
February 10th, 2016, 09:33 AM
The beast from the sea [the nations] is the lawless world ruler antichrist

The beast from the land [Israel] is the false prophet

chrysostom
February 10th, 2016, 09:37 AM
The beast from the sea [the nations] is the lawless world ruler antichrist

The beast from the land [Israel] is the false prophet

to make sense of this
you have to connect the dots

the false prophet must be the antichrist
who
must be mohammed
so
the beast from the land must be islam
and
the fourth beast of daniel
diverse from all the others (https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=%22the+fourth+beast%22&qs_version=KJV)

SaulToPaul
February 11th, 2016, 07:08 AM
the false prophet must be the antichrist
who
must be mohammed


:chuckle:

Zeke
February 11th, 2016, 08:17 AM
When you figure out the CAPITAL letters and who owns that WORLD the beast will be obvious, even a STRAW MAN can figure it out once ya stop using the mark for a few DAYS.

DAGG pretty much nailed the LETTER to the right cross for labelist gamers, which makes the EXOTERIC theatrics a distraction/opioids for the PERSONA/Soul Trap owned by the WORLD of paper kingdoms that have become steel bars for the mind.

chrysostom
February 11th, 2016, 10:57 AM
When you figure out the CAPITAL letters and who owns that WORLD the beast will be obvious, even a STRAW MAN can figure it out once ya stop using the mark for a few DAYS.

DAGG pretty much nailed the LETTER to the right cross for labelist gamers, which makes the EXOTERIC theatrics a distraction/opioids for the PERSONA/Soul Trap owned by the WORLD of paper kingdoms that have become steel bars for the mind.

do you think there is anyone here who understands your post?

Flaminggg
February 11th, 2016, 02:07 PM
(The Antichrist will reach his final 40 days of life beginning tomorrow on 2/12/2016. The Ninth Planet will be engaged, along with the Tenth Planet our Earth's Moon. Out of the Ten Planetary Bodies in our Solar System, only two of eight are engaged. You have just solved the equation of Jehoiachin's Reign of 8 or 18 years, and Solomon's Stalls of 4,000 or 40,000. The Equation is one Equation, and the Equation has one Solution = Tribulation of 40 Days, ending the Antichrist's Lifespan)

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2q8tGqnOYo ... (va243 SEAL that shows 10 Planets indicating Nibiru is shown in the pattern of the door when it is first struck) ... the Antichrist has formerly forgiven the Christian Community for Challenging his Walk of Faith, for challenging his literal walk with the Prophets and with Jesus, and their great love in seeing the events of revelation satisfied, for the equal potential the gospel program affords ... ... ... ... Moses built the Ark of the Covenant, to house the "Rod of Joseph"/the Antichrist, so that when it was time for the Hebrews to go into Jerusalem, the Hebrews would be reminded of their great inheritance by showing them a glimpse of the reality of their future. David went a step further, and destroyed the Ark of the Covenant, seeking the mercy of God to reveal the truth about the Antichrist, and very briefly that action produced fruit)

1st Beast of Daniel = Moses was Silenced by being made dumb, when the Law was Given.
2nd Beast of Daniel = Zacharias (Zechariah) was Silenced by being made dumb, when the Old Testament Books were Completed.
3rd Beast of Daniel = John of Revelation was Silenced by being made dumb, when the New Testament Books were Completed.
4th Beast of Daniel = Jesus is Silenced (Rev. 8:1) by being made dumb, when the "Two Witnesses" are slain, beginning 153 Days.

The above is a spiritual answer, this is the Carnal/Sin Answer: Egypt, Jerusalem, Rome and finally the USA. Moses brought a people into Egypt, like the other examples above, so we can simply exchange values for example, Moses brought the Medes into Egypt, to announce the Exodus of the Hebrews. This satisfies the claims of Daniel.

Unifying the Media and the Authorities of the Agenda of the Antichrist

So it follows the Antichrist will identify with Babylon during these 40 days, the current program of torture, and cruelty, behavior and chemical, as well as lethal measures are no longer necessary. God needs to resolve this mental illness of "Suicide by Antichrist", in one form or another as well as encourage the Gospel's Program. This should be begin to be done, soon. Love and Blessings.

chrysostom
February 12th, 2016, 06:55 AM
the antichrist denies the Father and the Son
and
you need not look any further
if
he should have over a billion followers

SaulToPaul
February 12th, 2016, 06:57 AM
the antichrist denies the Father and the Son
and
you need not look any further
if
he should have over a billion followers

How many catholics are there?

Flaminggg
February 12th, 2016, 10:59 AM
the antichrist denies the Father and the Son
and
you need not look any further
if
he should have over a billion followers

(We have now officially reached the final 40 days, of the Antichrist's Lifespan, at present, with have both the "Sign of Antipas/Antiparticle/Divorce" indicated by Nasa ... ... ... ... perhaps we will also have an event that releases many people of the burden of living by natural and explainable causes ... ... ... ... we should also have a persistent level of force in terminating the Antichrist. These are very positive things, this indicates that God is not allowing the potential to be threatened, even in part as a consequence of sin ... ... ... ... that being said, this should be viewed as an opportunity to release our suffering and pain on the Antichrist, by doing damage to him, continually)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54Sja1eozQU

Initial Statement = 40 Days of Tribulation Largely Invalidated
EZEKIEL 10:6 And it came to pass, [that] when he had commanded the man clothed with linen, saying, Take fire from between the wheels, from between the cherubims; then he went in, and stood beside the wheels.

The Antichrist is Confirming the Covenant (Joseph is called the Fire of Star Wormwood/Nibiru)

Continual Statement = 40 Days of Tribulation may not be a Dead End
EZEKIEL 10:7 And [one] cherub stretched forth his hand from between the cherubims unto the fire that [was] between the cherubims, and took [thereof], and put [it] into the hands of [him that was] clothed with linen: who took [it], and went out.

God lifts the Antichrist up into heaven, eliminating the Four Genetic Lines of Dan from the face of the earth, killing the Four Horsemen with the Four Beasts ... ... ... ... that is the conclusion being reached if we continue this statement in Ezekiel.

At Present ... it is unprofitable for God to either reprove the heavens with a sign, or to reprove Satan by eliminating the Devil immediately. The level of sin is simply an assault on the potential, that being said, we will strive to continue in our pattern (10 hour walk today, I leave in about an hour, to assist in your release).

chrysostom
March 12th, 2016, 05:30 AM
-the antichrist
-the king of the south
-is responsible for the the fourth beast of daniel
-unlike all the others
-and
-the second beast of the apocalypse

chrysostom
March 27th, 2016, 09:54 PM
the king of the north is responsible for the abomination of desolation

Epoisses
March 27th, 2016, 10:07 PM
the king of the north is responsible for the abomination of desolation

And that's future from our day. The thing that throws most people off is that the battles of Daniel 11 take place with horses, chariots, swords and arrows. We don't fight like that anymore but the angels still use those modes of transportation and weapons. The battles of Daniel 11 are Angelic warfare similar to Revelation 12 and Joel 2.

chrysostom
April 12th, 2016, 01:20 AM
And that's future from our day.

and that's just too easy
-it can be anything you want it to be
-all you have to do is ignore history

Epoisses
April 12th, 2016, 07:36 AM
and that's just too easy
-it can be anything you want it to be
-all you have to do is ignore history

The books of Daniel and Revelation are end-time books. Even the first six chapters of Daniel which are historical show in type and symbol things which will happen in the last days. Nebuchadnezzar is a type of Satan who will set up his kingdom of Babylon and he is even called the king of Babylon in Isa. 14. Nebuchadnezzar set up an image for all to worship on pain of death just like Satan will set up his image to the beast. Nebuchadnezzar was changed into a beast for seven years. Satan the true beast will be transformed into the false messiah to rule as the antichrist for seven years. There are even more parallels in the other chapters.

SaulToPaul
April 12th, 2016, 07:37 AM
-all you have to do is ignore history

Forcing square pegs into round holes does not work.

chrysostom
May 10th, 2016, 05:17 AM
keep watching

chrysostom
June 8th, 2016, 05:04 AM
they all had something to do with the temple

chrysostom
July 1st, 2016, 04:53 AM
please don't delete

chrysostom
July 25th, 2016, 12:04 PM
way too many beasts in the kjv
-that may be why they are so confused as to who the real beasts are

chrysostom
August 11th, 2016, 11:19 AM
and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it -
this one shouldn't be that hard to find

SaulToPaul
August 11th, 2016, 11:56 AM
and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it -
this one shouldn't be that hard to find

You won't find it in the past. You will find it just before the LORD returns.

chrysostom
September 22nd, 2016, 04:14 AM
You won't find it in the past.

you should at least look

SaulToPaul
September 22nd, 2016, 06:48 AM
you should at least look

It it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit.
Forcing it to fit will not help anyone get to the truth.

chrysostom
September 30th, 2016, 04:20 AM
It it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit.
Forcing it to fit will not help anyone get to the truth.

are you talking about your interpretation?

SaulToPaul
September 30th, 2016, 05:58 AM
are you talking about your interpretation?

I am talking about walmart salads.

Rondonmonson
September 30th, 2016, 09:19 PM
the beasts of Daniel


we need to use the Jewish temple to tie the four together
or
in other words

don't mess with the temple

The first two temples were destroyed by the Babylonian and Roman empires
so
they have to be our first two candidates
now
what is preventing the third temple?

the Dome of the Rock
so
Islam is our third candidate
and
different from all the rest

we are really looking for the second beast
since
Babylonian would be the first
Roman would be the third
Islam the fourth
so
that leaves us with the Median, Persian, and Greek kingdoms
and
all you have to do is ask which one messed with the temple
and
as it turns out Antiochus IV Epiphanes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiochus_IV_Epiphanes) in 167 BC took over the second temple an installed the Greek god for them to worship
so
the Babylonian, Greek, and Roman empires
and
Islam are the four beasts of Daniel

I will also show how the last two beasts of Daniel are the two beasts of Revelation (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3750229#post3750229)

The Beast all have one thing in common, they all conquered or enslaved Israel. And it has nothing to do with the Temple per se. It is actually Five Beasts spoken of by Daniel. Nebuchadnezzar was shown all Five that lay in the future, he was not shown the Two Beasts that were already passed. Rev. 13 and Rev. 17 describe a Beast (conglomerate) with Seven Heads and Ten Horns. in Rev. 17 we are told the "Mystery: of the Beast that the Woman sit upon. It was Seven Mountains (7 Rulers that Arose not 7 Hills, the very next verse describes them) Five Kings had Fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece) ONE IS Rome, and One is YET TO COME,Revived Rome or the Anti-Christ and his 10 Confederated Kings.

Islam can not be a Beast, it could not have Conquered or enslaved Israel because God dispersed the Jews the world over until he brought them back per his Valley of Dry Bones Prophecy, and made them live again in 1948/1967 Six Days War. If Beasts could be anybody, then the USA, Soviet Union and the British Empire would be "Beasts" because they were more powerful. But these Beasts had to conquer Israel and the Jewish peoples.

Thus the last Beast, the one to come, can now emerge, since Israel is back in her homeland. It will arise out of the vestiges of the old Roman Empire just like Daniel chapter 7 says, the 10 Horns will Arise out of the Fourth Beast.........the Beast that is no more, but his head wound is healed. The Little Horn or Anti-Christ arises among them and the Abomination of Desolation then happens, according to Jesus' own words, the AoD can not happen until after the Gospel is preached unto all the world (Matthew 24:14) then the AoD comes in Matthew 24:15, then Israel is told to Flee (Matthew 24:16) then comes the times of trouble (Tribulation) like has never been seen (Matthew 24:21). The Last Beast arises at this times, brings a false sense of Security (Peace) to Israel, who let down their guard, then are conquered.

The Anti-Christ will destroy Islam along with all Religions. He wants to be worshiped as the ONLY GOD. The Harlot is False Religion, the A.C. and his Kings Destroy her.

Rondonmonson
September 30th, 2016, 09:29 PM
Why engage in unfounded futurism when the imagery makes sense within the historical context of the book? Put aside your irrational hatred of Islam for just one second and do not read your own prejudice into texts that were written 800-900 years before Islam was even founded.

The four beasts in Daniel 7 are: Babylonians, Persians, Medes and the Greek empire of Alexander the great.
The ten horns are the ten kings of the Seleucid empire that preceeded Antiochus IV Epiphanes who is referred to in Daniel 7:25 for persecuting Jews and attempting to destroy Judaism so they would adapt Greek customs.
It also matches the entire theme of the Book of Daniel which is to preserve Judaism when faced with other cultures and traditions.

I agree with a lot of what you say. But the 10 Kings can not be of the Seleucid empire nor is Antiochus the one that defiles the Temple. Revelation chapter 17 explains this with much clarity:

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

{{ So these 10 Kings were not in power or had no Kingdom at Johns time AD 90ish. But they were to receive their Kingdoms/power, one hour (short time) with the Anti-Christ (end times). And these King make war with JESUS when Jesus comes back. Now how can this be anything but 10 Kings that come to power at the End with the Beast/Anti-Christ and wage battle with Jesus Christ ? Jesus was born much later then your reference point. }}

masmpg
October 1st, 2016, 11:21 AM
The "beasts" of Daniel seven are perfectly explained in Daniel and Revelation. First off what does the word "beast" signify in bible prophecy? There are rules to interpreting prophecy. All definitions of terms applies to all prophecy. In Daniel 7:17: "These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth." This is how the bible interprets itself. We never need to guess at anything the bible states otherwise we are calling God, and His holy word the KJV bible incomplete. Everything written in the bible is interpreted by the bible. We do not need any pastor priest nor whole denomination telling us their opinions about what the think it means.

chrysostom
October 14th, 2016, 05:41 AM
We never need to guess at anything the bible states otherwise we are calling God, and His holy word the KJV bible incomplete.

there are only 296 beasts in the kjv
-and-
that is not a guess

chrysostom
October 24th, 2016, 04:48 AM
it is hard to find four
-when-
you call everything a beast

chrysostom
November 1st, 2016, 03:58 AM
This is how the bible interprets itself.

how do you explain all the different interpretations?

chrysostom
November 12th, 2016, 05:47 AM
all four beasts of daniel had something to do with the temple
-babylon
-greece
-rome
-islam

chrysostom
November 23rd, 2016, 06:05 AM
there are too many beasts to pick from
-so-
what would distinguish four from the rest of them?

chrysostom
December 7th, 2016, 05:04 AM
the temple
-
what did they do to the temple? -
what did they do to the holy place (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+24:15&version=KJV)?

chrysostom
December 16th, 2016, 05:46 AM
there will not be a third temple

There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down - mat 24:2 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mat+24%3A2&version=KJV)

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) - mat 24:15 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+24:15&version=KJV)

SaulToPaul
December 16th, 2016, 08:13 AM
there will not be a third temple

There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down - mat 24:2 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mat+24%3A2&version=KJV)

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) - mat 24:15 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+24:15&version=KJV)

:chuckle:

chrysostom
December 29th, 2016, 03:25 AM
the beasts of Daniel


we need to use the Jewish temple to tie the four together
or
in other words

don't mess with the temple

The first two temples were destroyed by the Babylonian and Roman empires
so
they have to be our first two candidates
now
what is preventing the third temple?

the Dome of the Rock
so
Islam is our third candidate
and
different from all the rest

we are really looking for the second beast
since
Babylonian would be the first
Roman would be the third
Islam the fourth
so
that leaves us with the Median, Persian, and Greek kingdoms
and
all you have to do is ask which one messed with the temple
and
as it turns out Antiochus IV Epiphanes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiochus_IV_Epiphanes) in 167 BC took over the second temple an installed the Greek god for them to worship
so
the Babylonian, Greek, and Roman empires
and
Islam are the four beasts of Daniel

I will also show how the last two beasts of Daniel are the two beasts of Revelation (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3750229#post3750229)

it is all about the temple

chrysostom
January 12th, 2017, 04:21 AM
:chuckle:

thanks for watching

chrysostom
January 30th, 2017, 06:42 AM
what makes a beast a beast?
-
you have to mess with the temple -
that gets their attention

chrysostom
March 6th, 2017, 05:58 AM
we are looking for a beast that -
"was diverse from all the beasts (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=daniel+7%3A7&version=KJV)"
-
how can you not consider islam?

Epoisses
March 6th, 2017, 03:07 PM
A beast is an angel and the horns on each beast are the human kings they control. For instance the Lamb-like beast who speaks as a dragon in Revelation has two horns. This beast is Satan the antichrist and the two kings that attend him when he appears will be the final pope and a Jewish high priest of a restored temple. Rome and Jerusalem will combine forces at the end when Satan appears as the false messiah.

SaulToPaul
March 6th, 2017, 03:08 PM
we are looking for a beast that -
"was diverse from all the beasts (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=daniel+7%3A7&version=KJV)"
-
how can you not consider islam?

:chuckle:

keypurr
March 8th, 2017, 10:51 PM
we are looking for a beast that -
"was diverse from all the beasts (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=daniel+7%3A7&version=KJV)"
-
how can you not consider islam?
It was a different kind of beast.
A religion that took over the Roman Empire. RCC.

Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app ('https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=78367')

chrysostom
April 5th, 2017, 07:47 AM
It was a different kind of beast.
A religion that took over the Roman Empire. RCC.

Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app ('https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=78367')

who do you think will win?
-
islam or the church

keypurr
April 5th, 2017, 08:24 AM
Jesus Christ

Sent from my A622GL using TOL mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)

chrysostom
May 13th, 2017, 05:36 AM
islam has already won because you guys were so afraid of the church

chrysostom
June 6th, 2017, 05:15 AM
don't worry about the church -
worry about islam -
worry about communism

chrysostom
July 14th, 2017, 04:03 AM
please check my blog

chrysostom
August 16th, 2017, 09:09 AM
many do not even know what a beast is -
they think the antichrist is a beast - not -
they think the four horsemen are beasts - not -
they think the church is a beast - give me a break

SaulToPaul
August 16th, 2017, 10:59 AM
many do not even know what a beast is -
they think the antichrist is a beast - not -
they think the four horsemen are beasts - not -
they think the church is a beast - give me a break

:chuckle:

harebrained schemes are a waste of time...

chrysostom
August 16th, 2017, 11:00 AM
:chuckle:

harebrained schemes are a waste of time...

thanks for watching

SaulToPaul
August 16th, 2017, 11:01 AM
thanks for watching

:e4e:

I love fiction.

chrysostom
August 16th, 2017, 11:07 AM
the beasts of Daniel


we need to use the Jewish temple to tie the four together
or
in other words

don't mess with the temple

The first two temples were destroyed by the Babylonian and Roman empires
so
they have to be our first two candidates
now
what is preventing the third temple?

the Dome of the Rock
so
Islam is our third candidate
and
different from all the rest

we are really looking for the second beast
since
Babylonian would be the first
Roman would be the third
Islam the fourth
so
that leaves us with the Median, Persian, and Greek kingdoms
and
all you have to do is ask which one messed with the temple
and
as it turns out Antiochus IV Epiphanes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiochus_IV_Epiphanes) in 167 BC took over the second temple an installed the Greek god for them to worship
so
the Babylonian, Greek, and Roman empires
and
Islam are the four beasts of Daniel

I will also show how the last two beasts of Daniel are the two beasts of Revelation (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3750229#post3750229)

back to the apocalypse (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?102616-the-apocalypse&highlight=)

messing with the temple makes you a beast

SaulToPaul
August 16th, 2017, 11:09 AM
messing with the temple makes you a beast

Why not let Daniel define the beasts for you?

chrysostom
August 16th, 2017, 11:12 AM
Why not let Daniel define the beasts for you?

did you? - what are they?

SaulToPaul
August 16th, 2017, 11:15 AM
did you? - what are they?

Who did Daniel say they are?

chrysostom
August 16th, 2017, 11:15 AM
Who did Daniel say they are?

you tell me - please

SaulToPaul
August 16th, 2017, 11:24 AM
messing with the temple makes you a beast

Daniel 7
17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

chrysostom
August 16th, 2017, 11:26 AM
Daniel 7
17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

so you are looking for four kings to come out of the earth?

SaulToPaul
August 16th, 2017, 11:29 AM
so you are looking for four kings to come out of the earth?

No. We know who 3 of them were. Daniel told you.

chrysostom
August 16th, 2017, 11:46 AM
No. We know who 3 of them were. Daniel told you.

who were they?

SaulToPaul
August 16th, 2017, 11:51 AM
who were they?

Study Daniel. He will tell you.
Do you want to listen to him? Or come up with a harebrained scheme to be unique?

chrysostom
August 16th, 2017, 12:01 PM
Study Daniel. He will tell you.
Do you want to listen to him? Or come up with a harebrained scheme to be unique?

why can't you tell me what daniel told you?

SaulToPaul
August 16th, 2017, 12:02 PM
why can't you tell me what daniel told you?

I want him to tell you. Are you willing to read the entire book of Daniel to find out?
Would you rather read wikipedia, and concoct more harebrained schemes?

chrysostom
August 16th, 2017, 12:06 PM
I want him to tell you. Are you willing to read the entire book of Daniel to find out?
Would you rather read wikipedia, and concoct more harebrained schemes?

why can't you tell me what daniel told you?

SaulToPaul
August 16th, 2017, 12:07 PM
why can't you tell me what daniel told you?

Why can't you read Daniel, and let him tell you?
You'd rather me tell you, so you can say "well that's your interpretation".

Why are you scared to read it for yourself?

chrysostom
August 16th, 2017, 12:31 PM
Why can't you read Daniel, and let him tell you?
You'd rather me tell you, so you can say "well that's your interpretation".

Why are you scared to read it for yourself?

I have read daniel and he told me babylon, greece, rome, and islam are the beasts
-so-
what did daniel tell you?

SaulToPaul
August 16th, 2017, 12:32 PM
I have read daniel and he told me babylon, greece, rome, and islam are the beasts
-so-
what did daniel tell you?

:chuckle:

No, he didn't. Why did you make that up?

chrysostom
August 16th, 2017, 12:48 PM
:chuckle:

No, he didn't. Why did you make that up?

now it is your turn to tell me what daniel told you?

chrysostom
August 16th, 2017, 01:42 PM
can anyone explain why stp won't tell me what daniel told him?

SaulToPaul
August 16th, 2017, 01:45 PM
can anyone explain why stp won't tell me what daniel told him?

He told everyone the same thing. He told you the identity of the first 3 beasts, and you ignored him in favor of a harebrained scheme.

Why did you make something up?

chrysostom
September 12th, 2017, 03:22 AM
Why did you make something up?

it is my interpretation
-so-
what is yours?

SaulToPaul
September 12th, 2017, 05:14 AM
it is my interpretation
-so-
what is yours?

Why did you leave out Medo Persia. Daniel told you point blank.

Zeke
September 12th, 2017, 10:48 AM
Take dan and look in the mirror while reading it Luke 17:20-21, that is where the kingdom of I AM is located where these imaginary beast sit on the throne/ego seeing Acts 17:24, 1Cor 3:16 tells you where that throne is located, all this traditional outward searching is in a circular void that will never end until you realize they are symbolic Galatians 4:24 like all scripture concerning the spiritual vs the carnal paths, one kills the other 2Cor 3:6. Galatians 4:20-28 makes the genealogies of Abraham the same type of teachings not secular history 2Cor 5:16, 1Cor 13:11 because the eternal does not deal with history or the future, there is only the NOW! 2Cor 3:6 like Luke 17:20-21, Matt 11:11 is another stepchild ignored by hagar's sons still partaking of the tree of good and evil forever waiting for a none existent kingdom based on times illusionary mirror of reality to come, when Gods kingdom never left your house Psalm 139:8 you just fell asleep Galatians 4:1, awake from the duality dream of good and evil, birth and death Ephesians 5:14, Luke 15:17.

Rondonmonson
September 15th, 2017, 10:14 AM
we are looking for a beast that -
"was diverse from all the beasts (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=daniel+7%3A7&version=KJV)"
-
how can you not consider islam?

Of course my answer will confound you and you will go missing,but alas I will answer this in detail.

For starters, you do not take this verse into consideration AT ALL: Daniel 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

So, as we see all of the Beasts were different from each other. So the contention that the Fourth Beast was different is NOT A SURPRISE at all, but what is a surprise is that you miss a major clue later on regarding this clue above about all the Beasts being different from each other.

Now lets look at Gabriel's interpretation of Daniels dream.

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms (Of course, they are ALL Different), and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another (Little Horn/Beast) shall rise after them; and he (Little Horn) shall be diverse from the first (BOOM He will be different from THE FIRST, not All), and he shall subdue three kings.

There are two different Beasts mentioned in verses 23 and 24, its very clear. The Fourth Beast Rome, is different from ALL THE BEASTS just like verse 3 says, they were all different from each other. But in verse 24 it says the Little Horn was different from the FIRST BEAST, meaning the Little Horn that arises out of the Fourth Beast in the End Times, will be different from Rome. (WILL HE BE? Of course, Rome was a Long lasting, great empire, the Last Beast will be a Man, he will be the only King that starts an Empire/Kingdom/Beast Head and dies as the King that Falls.

Can we see these Five Beasts in Revelation chapter 13? Of course we can in verses 2 and 3.

Rev. 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard (Greece), and his feet were as the feet of a bear (Persia), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion (Babylon): and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death (ROME); and his deadly wound was healed (Little Horn/Anti-Christ/Beast): and all the world wondered after the beast.

So what is a Beast according to Daniel chapter 7 ? It is a Kingdom that Conquers, Enslaves or Rules Israel in some capacity or another. We see that Revelation ch. 13 incorporates all of Daniels Beasts into it.

You have Babylon (the Lion), Persia (the Bear), Greece (the Leopard) and Rome (the fierce Beast [Head] who receives a Head Wound) and the Little Horn (Who is a revived Beast Head).

What does all of this mean? This can be understood by understanding Ezekiel's Prophecy of Dry Bones and putting it all together. The supposed "Gap Theories" are not in truth theories but FACTS. Ezekiel prophesied that Israel would be as Dead Men's Bones for a long period of time (close to 2000 in reality) and then all of the sudden those Bones would come alive again. (Son of Man, can these Bones LIVE AGAIN?)

There can be NO BEAST without Israel in the Land, thus the Beast suffered a Mortal Wound, figuratively speaking when Rome destroyed Jerusalem and dispersed the Jews all around the world circa 70 AD to 125 AD. Thus Rome though still a Great Kingdom, was not a BEAST....Remember, being a Great Kingdom doesn't make a Kingdom a Beast, else Great Britain, the USA, China, Ottoman Empire etc. would all be Beasts, but it is only a Kingdom or a Nation that is Ruling over Israel which is a Beast. So Rome ceased being a Beast when they dispersed Israel around the world and Israel was a Dead Men's Bones for almost 2000 years.

Then 1948 happened and Israel was Reborn/Revived, the Bones came alive again !! Now and only now can we have the Last Beast come forth. When this Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem he will become the BEAST for 42 Months. Thus the Mortal Wound of this figurative Beast will be HEALED !!

So why do we have Seven Heads instead of Five? Because this is a Beast that runs the WHOLE LIFE SPAN of Israel. Not just from Daniel forth. The Seven Heads includes Egypt, Assyria, Babylon Persia, Greece, Rome and the Little Horn/Anti-Christ.

Now to the "Gap Theories". We are painted a picture of Israel as pertaining to their WHOLE LIFE SPAN in the bible. The Daniel 2 Statue covers Israel's LIFE SPAN from Babylon on !! The Beasts cover Israel's WHOLE LIFE SPAN when we include the Revelation Seven Headed Beast. The Daniel 70th Week Decree takes into account that Israel would be as Dead Men's Bones for almost 2000 years also.

So the Statue goes like this, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome......2000 year SKIP/Israel Dead......Little Horn and Ten Kings Arise together. That is your Statue.

Beasts = Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome.....Israel is no more, the BEAST is NO MORE...Little Horn/Anti-Christ/Last BEAST HEAD comes Forth, the BEAST is Revived. That is your Seven Headed Beast that the Woman (Harlot/False Religion)sits on or is co-mingled with throughout history.

Then the 70th Week Decree can be understood as well, there was no Israel, so they could not pay full PENANCE until the week of Jacobs Troubles.

SaulToPaul
September 15th, 2017, 12:21 PM
Islam? :chuckle: