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beloved57
July 3rd, 2011, 08:18 AM
This is why I believe this is True !

2 Thess 2:1-4

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Isa 14:13-14

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:


I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Man's own freewill by far is the most believed and popular religious conviction throughout the whole world. Rev 13:1;5-8

1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It's adherents are linked to all the various denominations, and sects, yes, even the non religious adhere to man's freewill.

So John writes Rev 13:16

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

That is all follow this deadly concept or philosophy of man's freewill !

beloved57
July 3rd, 2011, 10:19 AM
This teaching of man's freewill in the matter of Salvation is not just of those who loudly proclaim it, but even to those in the reformed faiths, who in the final analysis, make faith and or repentance, the basis for a man's Justification before God. Even if it is supposedly God given Faith. Hence any that attribute any part of Justification in part or in whole to what man does is an Idolater and it does not matter who it is and what their credentials or reputation may be. Even though they may say the right things , like salvation by grace, election and new birth, yet they worship themselves, mans freewill ultimately is what determines if one is saved or lost, what man does or not do, it never fails. When all is said and done, freewill religionists makes man his own savior, and that is what I believe the text is saying, it is the exaltation of man. Freewill religion is a form of will worship as per Col 2:23

23Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

This will worship is ethelothrēskia and it means:


voluntary, arbitrary worship

a) worship which one prescribes and devises for himself, contrary to the contents and nature of faith which ought to be directed to Christ

b) said of the misdirected zeal and the practice of ascetics

Its self made religion, not according to Faith and what has been revealed.

This is the religion of cain. Cain instead of by Faith making an offering to God that was accepted, he instead, did what he thought or believed to be acceptable to God. It was his own self made worship, and no doubt done in sincerity and his best the fruit of the ground could offer. This is exactly what the freewillers are doing today, rejecting the revelation of scripture of how Justification and Salvation is wrought by the lamb of God, and do that which is right in their own eyes. Prov 14:22

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

There own self made religions, why you think its so many different suasions ?

Will worship is also the worship of ourselves. Did not The serpent tell Eve, that she could be as God !! Gen 3:5

5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Ambition, to be as God. cp Isa 14:14

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Yes, this is what fuels freewill religion ! The word God in Gen 3:5 is the same exact word as in Gen 1:1

Satan was telling eve she could be, what he himself desired to be, like the Most High !

beloved57
July 4th, 2011, 06:03 AM
Freewill ism, and Legalism and all other ism's is men worshiping themselves, having confidence in their flesh [ Jer 17:5;Phil 3:3], their ability, their decisions, their prudence or wisdom or good behaviour, their freewill. Folks if we have the least degree of confidence in ourselves in this matter of Justification before God, we are lost, and nothing but a Divine Supernatural Intervention of God's Grace can save us. The religion of the beast, no matter what denomination or religious organization will always without fail be manifested to the True Child of Grace, because it will always have a exalted view of man and resting Salvation or Justification before God on what man decides to do. 2 Thess 2:4

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. By insisting that Salvation depends on my will finally instead of God's will.

When a person thinks like that, that Justification and Salvation depends finally on them, what they do, then they usurp the prerogative of God, who alone made the decision within His Eternal Decree and for His own Glory, who is Saved.

2 Tim 1:9

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

beloved57
July 4th, 2011, 04:56 PM
Freewill religion or the Man of sin religion will as stated earlier will always have a Pretentious view of Man !

This is True, because even though scripture, God's word declares man in a helpless lost condition, dead in sin, and only evil continually, without the ability to do good, yet men boast of their freewill which denies our total depravity and inability.

The scripture says none doeth good, no not one Ps 14:3

They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

This is repeated in Rom 3:12

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

This is describing all mankind as being born sinners by nature.

Scripture says here that man is filthy by nature, unprofitable , useless or unserviceable.

That word filthy in Ps 14:3 means became morally corrupt. All men by nature are born helplessly morally corrupt, even our religious efforts in that state are corrupt and as filthy stinking rags before God Isa 64:6

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

But you know, man by nature cannot and will not submit to this Divine Declaration.

None says the Divine Verdict of fallen man, doeth good. None is exempt ! God is saying, there is absolutely none that acts rightly or that does well.

The WNT
All have turned aside from the right path; they have every one of them become corrupt. There is no one who does what is right--no, not so much as one."

And so because the freewill religion or the man of sin religion does not accept what God says [about mankind] in His word, The Man of sin opposeth what God says:

2 Thess 2:4

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This word opposeth is the greek word antikeimai

to be set over against, opposite to

2) to oppose, be adverse to, withstand


It means to be contrary, withstand the Truth in God's Temple, in the Church, or what supposes to be the Church, the pillar and ground of Truth.

Whenever we oppose God's Truth, we are in fact exalting ourselves over God !

Freewill religion or philosophy is contrary to sound doctrine ! 1 Tim 1:10

10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

You see, man's freewill in the matter of Salvation and Justification
before God is contrary to and opposes sound doctrine of the scripture.

So man of sin religion has a pretentious view of man !

crossnote
July 4th, 2011, 09:11 PM
Free will or self will? As redeemed we have a 'free will' to serve Him.

beloved57
July 5th, 2011, 03:49 AM
cross:


As redeemed we have a 'free will' to serve Him.

That is a lie also ! Phil 2:13

13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

beloved57
July 6th, 2011, 07:38 AM
So we see that the Man of Sin Religion That Man has a freewill in this Matter of Salvation has a Pretentious view of Man ! Man denies his total inability in Spiritual matters, denies that he is dead to God.

Next, this Freewill or Man of sin religion has a Degrading view of God !

The Natural religions of men think of God as liken to themselves Ps 50:21

21These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.

One of the main comments the man of sin religion makes in his defense of freewill, but man is made in the Image and Likeness of God, and since God has Freewill, surely we men must have freewill to do as we please since God does and we are in His Image !

Being made in the Image and Likeness of God has nothing to do with being given the Divine Prerogatives that God Alone has, men are God's creatures, and made lower than the Angels, and these Holy Creatures [The Ones who did not sin] can not but blush and be astonished at the thinking of sinful men.

The freewillers denies and opposes God's Sovereignty, oh sure with lip service they will acknowledge that God is Sovereign, but not over all things. In many things they believe God's will is subservient to the will of men. They will deny that ultimately the person is saved or delivered from this evil world by the will of God as per Gal 1:4

4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

And instead, they proclaim, this deliverance cannot occur unless man's will gives God consent !

They do not come right out and deny the Death of Christ and the accomplishments of His blood, but they limit its efficaciousness to finally be decided by the mighty freewill of Man !

They deny the work of the Holy Spirit as being the effectual applier of the Life that proceeds from the risen Christ to all for whom He died, and proclaim that ultimately the freewill of man decides who has Spiritual life applied to them, for this is degrading to the Work of the Spirit. It is the work of the Spirit of God Paul writes to bring one unto belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Faith or believing the Gospel [The word of Truth [Eph 1:13] is the result or fruit of the Sanctifying work of the Spirit, and not the freewill of man. !

So this man of sin religion, the religion of freewill sovereignty, has a degrading view of Almighty God, the Triune God whom Alone should receive the Glory for the Salvation of a Man..

beloved57
July 6th, 2011, 10:12 PM
The Man of sin religion or the freewill religions all have one thing in common, they require man to do something to be come saved and some will require something to done to stay saved ! Even those groups who proclaim Grace ultimately make Justification before God a act of man, mans faith or believing or repentance. The Man of sin religion will always give man a occasion to boast in the flesh. Oh no he will not come right out and brag about it, he will say, but all i did was accept a gift, as that is suppose to mean he is not considering his final decision to accept the gift took away the fact that salvation for him was decided by something he did, he ACCEPTED the gift.

The word accept is a VERB and it means:

to take or receive (something offered); receive with approval or favor: to accept a present; to accept a proposal.

2. to agree or consent to; accede to: to accept a treaty; to accept an apology.

3. to respond or answer affirmatively to: to accept an invitation.

A verb denotes a performance of an action.

So if one denies that they did anything to become saved , but only accepted a gift, they have just lied to you.

The difference between saved and lost for them was their performance, whereas another who had the same gift offered them but refused to accept it, then it was because they did not perform the action of accepting. So they made themselves to differ, thats boasting, thats the religion of the man of sin, the freewill religion. Its a flat out repudiation of Salvation by Grace.

In my opinion the freewill religion is of Lucifer Isa 14:12-14

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

This my friends epitomizes the concept of freewill, I WILL..

beloved57
July 8th, 2011, 08:57 AM
The Man of sin religion or the Freewill religion are all religions that gives space for men to Glory in the flesh for the salvation of the soul. It should always be God who is entitled to the praise and Glory of Salvation, even when one Trusts in Christ after hearing the word of Truth, the Gospel of their Salvation. This is seen in Eph 1:12-13

12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ones Trusting, believing in Christ as a result of having their Salvation made known to them by the Gospel, should be to the Praise of His Glory, not the glory of freewill, or my decision or my choice.

Paul Thanked God when people received the word and believed 1 Thess 2:13

For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

You see, God is to be Thanked for believers because it meant God effectually worked in them !

The man of sin religion, the freewill religion takes credit to themselves for believing the word of Truth, and in doing so, takes credit for their trusting, resulting in their salvation..

beloved57
July 8th, 2011, 11:19 PM
Even though scripture plainly indicates that salvation is not of the will of man, the freewillers, the man of sin religion, disregards that and insist that their salvation is of their will. Even in light of scriptures like Rom 9:16

16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Now what is it that I mean about this expression freewill ? It means when one has determined or done something to obtain God's Salvation, in my opinion its the religion of Lucifer Isa 14:12-14

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

I will be Like the Most High. 2 Thess 2:4

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

In this deadly religion, No more is it God's Sovereign will in Election that decides whom will be saved by the Blood of Christ, but Man's Freewill. This is taking the prerogative From God and putting the crown on our own heads..

Ktoyou
July 8th, 2011, 11:34 PM
B57,

You take the cake! :kookoo:
goodnight

beloved57
July 19th, 2011, 05:10 AM
Dethrones The Sovereignty of God in Salvation !

I believe that the teaching of Freewill dethrones the Sovereignty of God in ones Salvation, making the creatures will the deciding factor in Salvation, I believe that speaks to 2 Thess 2:4

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

beloved57
July 20th, 2011, 06:10 AM
The Man of sin, those preaching free-will" without question ignores the Sovereign work of the Holy Spirit, who is God. These preachers proclaim what supposes to be the Atonement of Christ, then end up saying that it will be effective for you if you will believe or exercises your faith or now accept the atonement. This is making the free-will of man the deciding factor in one's salvation and not the Sovereign application work of the Spirit unto all whom the Atonement was made for and which God accepted at the hands of Christ. So the free-will of man preachers and believers ignore the Power of the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost.

griffinsavard
July 20th, 2011, 07:24 AM
The Man of sin, those preaching free-will" without question ignores the Sovereign work of the Holy Spirit, who is God. These preachers proclaim what supposes to be the Atonement of Christ, then end up saying that it will be effective for you if you will believe or exercises your faith or now accept the atonement. This is making the free-will of man the deciding factor in one's salvation and not the Sovereign application work of the Spirit unto all whom the Atonement was made for and which God accepted at the hands of Christ. So the free-will of man preachers and believers ignore the Power of the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost.


I understand your position but I think you should reason out what you are saying....

Since we are the 'bride of Christ' then just like in the natural world the woman must love the man back. Not because she is forced to, but because she wants to. Essentially what you are teaching is a forced love, something I cant see God doing. Freedom is a foundational principle in love. In my estimation fear can lead men to believe they cannot fall from grace. God wants people to worship him in spirit and in truth, not some robotic forced love. I know the verses you are looking at but this is where the Spirit is very important. Examine what you are saying critically, you are teaching Robotism. :chuckle:

beloved57
July 20th, 2011, 09:35 PM
The freewill religionists in defiance to the Truth that Salvation is of God, that He alone determines to whom it shall be bestowed upon at His prerogative, the freewillers declare in essence that God has not determined anything regarding the effects of Christ saving death, but that those saving effects are determined by man's freewill, that its the will of man that has the final say ! That man has the power to either accept or refuse of Christ's saving work, and that they do as they please with Him ! That it is the freewill of man that determines if the death of Christ shall be effective in salvation or not ! What horrible blasphemies ! They, even after all Christ hath done to save sinners, that it is still up to the freewill of man to determine all or none,many or few shall be saved !

Jay Walk
July 20th, 2011, 09:40 PM
I understand your position but I think you should reason out what you are saying....

Since we are the 'bride of Christ' then just like in the natural world the woman must love the man back. Not because she is forced to, but because she wants to. Essentially what you are teaching is a forced love, something I cant see God doing. Freedom is a foundational principle in love. In my estimation fear can lead men to believe they cannot fall from grace. God wants people to worship him in spirit and in truth, not some robotic forced love. I know the verses you are looking at but this is where the Spirit is very important. Examine what you are saying critically, you are teaching Robotism. :chuckle:

Good thing he isn't saying people are forced against their will to love God.:cool:

beloved57
July 21st, 2011, 06:26 AM
Good thing he isn't saying people are forced against their will to love God.:cool:

Only those Born of God can and do Love God !

beloved57
July 26th, 2011, 06:19 PM
The Antichrist freewill religions exalts the will of the creature into the place of the Creator, making the will of God subject to the will of man the creature, which is Blasphemy, it makes the Eternal Purpose of God subject to man's will as this implies 2 Thess 2:

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Thats right, when we make God's will subject to the will of the creature, we are setting in the temple saying " I am God" I determine my destiny, not God.

This Antichrist spirit makes Salvation [Which is to the Glory of God] dependent upon mans will, it makes men feel good about themselves, to trust in himself and his abilities.

beloved57
July 28th, 2011, 11:31 PM
Rev 13:1

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Why I believe universal atonement is blasphemy against Christ. If Christ's death is universal, meaning that He died for all without exception, then His death in and of itself, cannot be effectual to any He died for. This lie is actually telling sinners that Christ saves, but at the same time tells them His death alone cannot save you [Which is lie 1 Pet 2:24] ! You see the problem here ? This false notion also means that Christ's death does no more for saved sinners in heaven, than it does for sinners who are eternally damned. What this logically boils down to is that the sinner himself gives the efficacious saving value to the death of Christ ! This teaching is against Christ. This teaching is blasphemy.

beloved57
July 29th, 2011, 12:11 AM
I know thats a odd title, but perhaps the deadliest blasphemy in religion today is that of the perversion of Faith. Most in organized religion today have crowned faith or the act of believing as their saviour. Their faith speaks loud and clear as a witness, that Christ death alone has no power to save a sinner from their lost condition. It is their act of believing or faith that finally appeased God on their behalf and not solely the Blood of Christ ! For this act of believing is setup next to Christ. Faith or the act of believing is their ground of salvation and not the imputed righteousness of Christ which is revealed to Faith. Their Faith and not the blood of Christ makes them right with God, and so this must be seen as a damnable heresy, denying the very Lord who supposedly bought them. 2 Pet 2:1

1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

beloved57
August 6th, 2011, 06:47 AM
The Antichrist and man of sin religion are people who promote themselves and their freewill over and above God's will in determining who is saved ! 2 Thess 2:3-4

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This Antichrist sentiment believes that Salvation is accomplished by a synergy [a cooperative effort with God and man]. They say God has done all He can in providing a salvation plan through Jesus Christ and that this plan or provision is at everyones avail without exception, but its man's response that is the determining factor, for he has freewill to accept or reject the offer of Salvation ! So it is man who plays the most important role, and not God on who is saved eternally. This blasphemy is an attempt to dethrone God as the Sole Author of a Man's Salvation. God the Father chose who should be saved, God the Son died for them thus redeeming them from death, and God the Holy Spirit makes Christ redemptive death effectual, and gives Faith and Repentance, and so it is God who decides who shall be saved, and not man !

Ted L Glines
August 7th, 2011, 12:25 PM
This is why I believe this is True !

2 Thess 2:1-4

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Isa 14:13-14

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:


I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Man's own freewill by far is the most believed and popular religious conviction throughout the whole world. Rev 13:1;5-8

1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It's adherents are linked to all the various denominations, and sects, yes, even the non religious adhere to man's freewill.

So John writes Rev 13:16

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

That is all follow this deadly concept or philosophy of man's freewill !

So, what else is new? Sounds like 7:30 PM in East Los Angeles. Most of us have a care to stay outta there.

Free will is what you make it, on your own, by yourself, all the time. It will hurt you if you make that choice.

beloved57
August 26th, 2011, 07:24 AM
Freewill in Salvation is a lie and a denial of man's depraved and dead state spiritually by nature. That God hath concluded all under sin !

Gal 3:22

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

The words concluded and under are very strong words !

The word concluded is the greek word sygkleiō and means:


to shut up together, enclose

a) of a shoal of fishes in a net

2) to shut up on all sides, shut up completely


It denotes an imprisonment, shut under completely, on all sides !

All that is in us by nature and all that is done by us, are under the power and dominion of sin. That is all the members of our bodies, all the faculties of the soul, all thoughts of our minds Per Gen 6:5

5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

All the emotions of the heart Jer 17:9

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

This desperately wicked actually means incurable !

All the intentions of our wills, all of our choices, our works, even our righteousness is as filthy rags Isa 64:6

6But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

And yet, men are teaching that they are saved by their freewill..Its a demonic teaching ! 1 Tim 4:1

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

beloved57
August 28th, 2011, 07:14 AM
1 Jn 2:18

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many Antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Contrary to popular opinion the Antichrist is not one man, but One devil working through many men, just like the Man of God 2 Tim 3:17 is not one man, but many whom the Spirit of God instructs and teaches with the word of God.

What characterizes the man of sin ? 2 Thess 2:3

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The Man of Sin Opposes God ! So the Antichrist opposes God and or God's Truth, His servants. The word for opposeth is the greek word antikeimai and means:

to be set over against, opposite to

2) to oppose, be adverse to, withstand

To be an adversary against the Truth. Paul wrote on one occasion 1 Cor 16:9

9For a great door and effectual is opened unto me, and there are many adversaries.

or Many opposer's, or as John calls them many Antichrist, they simply oppose the Truth !

The man of sin exalts himself above God

The man of sin sits himself up in the Temple of God [Where the Worship and Presence of God should be] and is worshipped as God, showing that he is God.

The Man of sin, the Antichrist,is any system of religion, any man or group of men, any preacher, of any church or denomination that teaches that salvation is dependent upon or conditioned upon the will, or works or the merit of man, instead of the will and work of God through Christ, for God's Elect. It does not matter what denomination, baptist, presbyterian, pentecostal, or any other mainland cult. 2 Tim 4:3

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

This phrase turn away is the greek word apostrephō:


to turn away

a) to remove anything from anyone

b) to turn him away from allegiance to any one

c) tempt to defect

2) to turn back, return, bring back

a) of putting a sword back in its sheath

b) of Judas returning money to temple

3) to turn one's self away, turn back, return

4) to turn one's self away from, deserting


It also means to pervert Lk 23:14

14Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:

The Ideal here is the perversion of the Truth, the turning away from it by perverting it !

Acts 13:10

10And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

The word pervert here is greek word diastrephō and means:


to distort, turn aside

a) to oppose, plot against the saving purposes and plans of God

2) to turn aside from the right path, to pervert, corrupt

You see how all this ties in to what Paul teaches of the Man of sin in 2 Thess 2:3-4 They oppose the Eternal Saving Purpose of God through Christ of God's Elect People, those Chosen in Christ before the foundation..

beloved57
August 29th, 2011, 06:57 AM
The Teachings of the man of sin, the Antichrist that opposes God and His Truth:

Those who teach that God's Eternal Purpose regarding the Salvation of those Christ died for can be altered, or hindered or even thwarted by man's will, are according to Col 2:23 will worshippers, for they do not really worship God, but their so called freewill, thats their god. They believe their freewill determines God's Eternal Purpose in saving a Soul, and not God's will alone.

Case and point, these will teach that those God wills to be saved 1 Tim 2:4

4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

The greek word for will is thelo strongs says:

Desire (Noun and Verb), Desirous:

"to will, to wish," implying volition and purpose, frequently a determination, is most usually rendered "to will

That this will or resolve of God to have all men saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth is dependent on the will of man for it to be a reality, thats Antichrist.

For God the Father has committed to His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ to save all whom He desires to be saved. So if one of those all men in 1 Tim 2:4 that God desires or intends to be saved and come into the knowledge of the Truth , is not, then that suggests failure on Christ behalf, because God sent Him to seek and to save that which was Lost Lk 19:10

10For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

So thats why to teach that 1 Tim 2:4, the success of it depends on man's will is Antichrist, against and opposes Christ saving work !

beloved57
August 29th, 2011, 06:15 PM
Those who are teaching that the Merits and Efficacy of Christ death to save, that it is dependent upon man's will, his freewill decision or man's act of believing, thats Antichrist, for it's clearly a teaching against the accomplishment of Christ to save whom He died for, and makes it the deed of the sinner who finally decides the efficacy of His Death ! For the Truth of the matter is, all those Christ died for, the efficacy of it, has perfected them forever before God Heb 10:14

14For by one offering[His Death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

beloved57
September 2nd, 2011, 09:46 AM
Those who deny that saving Faith, that Faith to believe in Christ as Heb 10:39

But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Those that deny that this is a Sovereign Work of God the Holy Spirit, in the New Birth Jn 3:3-8; 6:29; 2 Thess 2:13 given to all for whom Christ died and for His Sake Phil 1:29

29For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Those who deny this are Antichrist and follow the man of sin !

logical1
September 2nd, 2011, 11:30 AM
This is why I believe this is True !

2 Thess 2:1-4

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Isa 14:13-14

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:


I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Man's own freewill by far is the most believed and popular religious conviction throughout the whole world. Rev 13:1;5-8

1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It's adherents are linked to all the various denominations, and sects, yes, even the non religious adhere to man's freewill.

So John writes Rev 13:16

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

That is all follow this deadly concept or philosophy of man's freewill !

i feel i speak for many other posters who read this:

What the devil are you talking about????

are you saying that humans do not have free will? they dont have the freedom to sin or not sin??? I mean, i can't figure out what you are saying at all...

If you say that you believe in Once Saved Always saved... that's a heresy

beloved57
September 2nd, 2011, 12:43 PM
log:


i can't figure out what you are saying at all...

Then maybe this thread is over your head. What I have stated , I have stated plainly..

logical1
September 2nd, 2011, 04:23 PM
log:



Then maybe this thread is over your head. What I have stated , I have stated plainly..

i would expect such an answer from a Catholic hater...

oh well...

again, you peple have no arguemnts... so you just say anything...

you dont want an intelligent answer becasue then you may not have an answer yourself...
so youjust say ... non response types of things.. like What i have stated, i have stated plainly.

no, Jesus stated thingsplainly...

you... Ha! different freaking story....

i u/stand everything Jesus says...

you... far from it..

logical1
September 2nd, 2011, 04:24 PM
Those who deny that saving Faith, that Faith to believe in Christ as Heb 10:39

But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Those that deny that this is a Sovereign Work of God the Holy Spirit, in the New Birth Jn 3:3-8; 6:29; 2 Thess 2:13 given to all for whom Christ died and for His Sake Phil 1:29

29For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Those who deny this are Antichrist and follow the man of sin !
you OSAS ppl act like a persobn who once knew Jesus and accepted Him can never be free again to go against Him...

geeze... do you people know yourself at all???

i am thinking of the ostrich for some reason....

logical1
September 2nd, 2011, 04:25 PM
Good thing he isn't saying people are forced against their will to love God.:cool:

when you love God even when you feel He is against you...

what a great thing that is...

its easy to love a God who never allows any pain into your life..

but then... who is without pain???

beloved57
September 5th, 2011, 06:31 PM
Those who teach against and deny the Eternal Security of the Believer, they are the man of sin. For this teaching is dishonoring to and against what Christ has accomplished and obtained for His People. Their Eternal Redemption Heb 9:12

Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Teaching against The Eternal Security of the Believer based solely upon Christ, makes Eternal Security dependent upon what man does. This is Anti Christ, against Christ. For scripture teaches Jn 10:27-30

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30I and my Father are one.

1 Cor 1:8

8Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Phil 1:6

6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

beloved57
October 22nd, 2011, 07:31 PM
Eph 1:6

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Salvation is to the Praise of the Glory of His Grace, and not the freewill of man. One may reply, but we must believe ! Yes, this is True, but we believe by or through Grace Acts 18:27

27And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace, and this is a evidence of Salvation by grace, and not a condition of it. The Man of sin has changed a evidence of salvation by Grace [Believing] into a condition for salvation, a performance man must do before his sins are forgiven and have Eternal Life.. So the Praise of believing goes not to grace, but to mans freewill..

SuperMonkey
October 22nd, 2011, 07:40 PM
The biggest lie ever told is that man is, or can become, G-d. Of that there is no doubt!

But I do believe that there will be a "man of sin" who does personally exalt himself and blaspheme the Most High. He will put to death those who refuse to take his name and worship him, and Christ will return in victory to establish His millennial kingdom.

beloved57
October 22nd, 2011, 07:47 PM
sm


But I do believe that there will be a "man of sin" who does personally exalt himself and blaspheme the Most High.

Thats man's freewill religion ! Its not one individual.

SuperMonkey
October 22nd, 2011, 07:50 PM
sm



Thats man's freewill religion ! Its not one individual.

I disagree. There's too many references (OT and NT) to the man of sin/Beast/Antichrist as a physical person that make no sense interpreted in that light.

naatmi
October 22nd, 2011, 07:55 PM
sm



Thats man's freewill religion ! Its not one individual.Free will is self-evident. You have no mental accountability whatsoever if you deny self-evident truth.

beloved57
October 22nd, 2011, 08:29 PM
sm


I disagree.

No problem..

SuperMonkey
October 22nd, 2011, 08:37 PM
sm



No problem..

Cool. :)

beloved57
October 24th, 2011, 01:52 PM
What Grace ? Salvation is to the Praise of the Glory of His Grace. Which Grace is Paul speaking of ? Well go back up to Eph 1:3-4

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Its the Election or Choice of Grace Rom 11:5-6

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Now if Grace is unmerited, undeserved favour toward sinful and rebellious man, as we all are by nature, and God has determined to save only some men by Grace [Election of Grace], then why is God Charged with being an unfair monster? Such thinking reveals a spirit of pride, and believes that God is indebted to man. This thinking therefore denies Salvation by Grace, and makes it out of debt. Yes, Grace is now reduced to something that God owes sinners. If God does not give give all all sinners without exception Saving Grace, then God is labeled as a Monster ! This is True with some Freewillers and its True with the Universalist; for each of these groups operate from the premise in their thinking that God is indebted to man, and so quite frankly both of these groups deny Salvation by Grace, because Salvation by Grace means Salvation by God's discriminating Grace, which He only gives to some men and not all. If God is Unjust if He does not save or offer to save all without exception, then Salvation cannot be by Grace, but of debt, there is no other conclusion.

Rom 11:

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

beloved57
October 24th, 2011, 05:19 PM
The Natural Man in Our Pride, charge God with being Unfair, if He does not give guilty man a chance at being saved. Well if that is the case, you may as well call God unfair and unjust for not giving the the Angels that sinned a Chance , none recorded in scripture. 2 Pet 2:4

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

This word here sinned, it is the greek word hamartanō and means:


to be without a share in

2) to miss the mark

3) to err, be mistaken

4) to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong

5) to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin

Those Angels sinned against God's Law ! This presupposes that Angels were under Law to God in Heaven.

Now scripture indicates that God showed them no mercy, but the severity of God as Paul mentions in Rom 11:22

22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity;

I personally believe God did not Love those Angels that sinned.

But now if God is Love, which He is 1 Jn 4:8,16, then Why did He not out of Love and Pity and Mercy deal with these Angels that sinned, with Mercy ? They were His Creatures, they were called Sons of God, probably referred to here Job 38:7

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


We know that there are Elect Angels 1 Tim 5:21, So we know God had a High Esteem for them, and no doubt God Loved them. Look at Gabriel. Now does this mean God is no longer Love, that He is not Merciful, and not Gracious since He showed none of these to the Angels that sinned ? Now if we are consistent in our thinking, and do agree that God has dealt with the Fallen Angels Unmercifully, then we must Charge God with being an Unjust God.

If not, then we are saying that we are better than God's Angels that sinned and that is pride, the pride of man thinking.

beloved57
November 27th, 2011, 04:56 PM
Exposing a false religion !

Prov 14:5

5A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies.


Any religion or person who says they are separated from religion, that teaches that Salvation is in any way conditioned on man, in that man is required to perform anything, make any choice, is a false religion, it does not matter who it is, the pope or a popular reform pastor teacher, it is a false gospel, that is under strong delusion..

beloved57
November 28th, 2011, 05:45 PM
Every profession of religion that teaches that one's salvation is in any way dependent on the sinner, is a false religion, and unless God grants them repentance, they are on their way to an Christless Eternity and damned forever ! Those who are teaching that one must do something, to add man's effort to the Sovereign Grace of God, which alone saves a man, that man must add his will to the Sovereign Will of God,Paul says we are delivered by the Will of God Gal 1:4

4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

or some say that man must make a decision before the will of God can deliver or rescue us from our sins, indicating that the blood of Christ alone did not complete the Job, all such teaching is the man of sin. Any religion that teaches that God wants to save everyone, however He can't or will not without man's cooperation, or that Christ died to redeem everyone but it does not come to past unless man chooses to allow it, all these lies are from the man of sin !

beloved57
November 29th, 2011, 03:24 PM
Jesus told His disciples that wolves would come in Sheep Clothing, however He assured them that they would know them by their fruits, not by outward appearance, but by the Fruit of their understanding of Salvation. Matt 7:18-20

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

All false religions, no matter how close they may resemble the Truth, will always fall short of Salvation entirely of Grace. They will always finally sneak a work of man into the equation as to how God save sinners.

Many will teach that one is saved by keeping commandments of God ! Repentance is such a commandment. Acts 17:30

30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

It would hard to deny that repentance is not a commandment of God from this verse !

Or they teach that man is saved by his doing good as in Rom 2:7

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Or that one is saved by getting water baptized or some other religious observance ! Many use Acts 2:38 to teach that a man is not saved until he gets water baptized, and some take it a step further and say that this water baptism must include say it is done in the name of Jesus Christ before it is valid !


What is common in our day, the teaching that one must make a decision to accept Christ as their Saviour !

This can go on and on, but one thing for certain, these deceived ones cannot at anytime give a plain unadulterated Testimony of salvation by the Sovereign grace of God, because Jesus said it here Matt 7:18

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

A corrupt tree, one not born again, cannot, has not the ability, to bring forth good fruit, meaning a good testimony of the Gospel of God's Grace and Salvation through Jesus Christ !

beloved57
December 11th, 2011, 09:17 PM
Gal 3:11

11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

The word law here is the greek word nomos and means:


anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command

a) of any law whatsoever

1) a law or rule producing a state approved of God

a) by the observance of which is approved of God

2) a precept or injunction

Often times when we see the word law in scripture we immediately think of the Ten Commandments or the Mosaic Law which the scriptures do call the Law. However the word here inspired by God through Paul means more than the Mosaic Law or the Commandments, but does include any command whatsover, a law or rule producing a state approved of God, like Faith Heb 11:6

6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

For a person to insist that they are Justified before God, or in His sight because of their faith, that God declared them Righteous before Him because they exercised faith, then that person is claiming Justification by his work of the law ! Matt 23:23

23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Faith according to the Saviour was one of the more important things of the Law which should not be left undone ! Faith in God and His Promise of the Messiah, all the sacrifices they did pointed to Him. Lk 24:44

And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Jn 5:46

For had ye believed[Faith] Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.

Faith was not something new to the people of God, for the Prophets preached Faith Hab 2:4

4Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

The Righteous or Justified man in the OT lived by Faith of the coming Messiah, who they realized was their Justification before God. The Father of the Faithful saw His Day and was Glad Jn 8:56

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

beloved57
December 12th, 2011, 06:21 AM
The jews whom Jesus was speaking to and of in Matt 23, above all people had been given the law, in all its ceremonies, sacrifices and institutions, which all prefigured and foreshadowed Christ, and pointed to Him, to have Faith in His Blood as the basis of their acceptance and righteousness before God, this Paul points out in Rom 3:25,27

25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

This was the Law of Faith vs 27

27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

And this is what Jesus meant as to Faith being a more weighter matter of the Law Matt 23:23. So again, if one insists they are Justified before God, on the account of their Faith, then they are claiming Justification before God on account of keeping the Law, and such thinking is condemned by scripture !

beloved57
December 12th, 2011, 07:31 AM
You see Faith is not something that man was supposed to do as a condition to get justified before God, that's works, but it was a God given grace that revealed a Persons Justification before God based on Christ's Christ's obedience alone, and His imputed Righteousness laid to their account, so Faith revealed to them the object [Christ] who was their Justification and Righteousness before God Phil 3:9, His Blood Rom 3:25.

So it depends on how one understands Justification by Faith Rom 5:1, if they understand it as a condition one must meet and exercise in order to become Justified before God, which is works of the Law Justification, or if you view it as an God given grace by the Spirit of God, that reveals to you, your already Justified state before God because of Christ's blood and imputed righteousness on your account. This is no trifling matter but of momentous importance, for it makes the difference on whether one is saved or reprobate, for what a man thinketh in his heart, so is he Prov 23:7

For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.

If you or i believe that we are Justified before God, in His sight, because of our Faith, then we base it upon Law, and we defined the word law in the verse it is nomos :

anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command

a) of any law whatsoever

1) a law or rule producing a state approved of God ***

a) by the observance of which is approved of God

2) a precept or injunction

3) the rule of action prescribed by reason

b) of the Mosaic law, and referring, acc. to the context. either to the volume of the law or to its contents

c) the Christian religion: the law demanding faith, the moral instruction given by Christ, esp. the precept concerning love

d) the name of the more important part (the Pentateuch), is put for the entire collection of the sacred books of the OT

If that is your thinking, and God knows, you are a debtor to do the whole Law, for you have fallen from grace !

beloved57
December 14th, 2011, 10:10 AM
The Man of sin religion will deny that Salvation is sure to its recipients solely based upon the Will of God ! They believe and teach that even though God wills all men to be saved and come into the Knowledge of the Truth, that this will of God can and is frustrated by the will of man ! 1 Tim 2:4

4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

The word for will here is the greek word thelō:


to will, have in mind, intend

a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose

b) to desire, to wish

c) to love

1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing

d) to take delight in, have pleasure

They teach that God's desire, wish or resolve and determination is not enough to save a person and bring them into a knowledge of the Truth.

They teach that God's unwillingness for some not to perish, that its not enough for them not to perish ! 2 Pet 3:9

9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

God not willing these not to perish, is not enough for them not to perish according to these false teachers. Man's will trumps His ! There will is superior to God's !

So When Paul says that the saved were delivered by the will of God Gal 1:6

4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

They will add, that in order for that deliverance to have occurred, it must have also been according to the sinners will too or God's will would not have been enough !

beloved57
December 20th, 2011, 05:32 PM
The man of sin religion denies the Truth of scripture that God is He who works [All things] after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL !

Eph 1:11

11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

And no it does not matter what context this truth about God is found. Just because a certain truth about God is found in a particular context, does not limit that which was said about God to that particular context. A pagan King said something very similar about God in a entirely different context Dan 4:35

35And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Also the Spirit said in Dan 4:25

25That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.

Now if this be True, why should we not believe that the Most High giveth the Kingdom of Heaven to whomsoever He will ?? Lk 12:32

Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

The man of sin religion teaches that God's own will cannot and will not overcome man's own will, but that God's will shall succumb to man's will, if man chooses not to cooperate with God's Will, and so man's will prevails, lest God shall be charged with forcing man to do something against his freewill ! So God gives way to man's superior will !

Scripture should be changed to:

11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of mans freewill will:

beloved57
December 22nd, 2011, 09:28 AM
Gal 1:4

4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

5To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.


God's intention and purpose and will behind Christ dying for the sins of those He died for as per 1 Cor 15:3-4

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

It was so that he would deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God the Father !

Now if this does not occur for each and everyone Christ gave Himself in behalf of [The Church Eph 5:25], God the Father's will is frustrated, thwarted, defeated. Those who teach such things are Antichrist, and anti God, neither do they give God the Glory due His Name vs 5 !

All those who preach a Gospel that does not have God through Christ, Saving all for whom He died or gave Himself in behalf of, they are preaching a false gospel, a gospel of man, the man of sin ! They teach God's will is frustrated by men !

beloved57
December 30th, 2011, 11:34 PM
The man of sin religion falsely preaches that the objects of God's Love in giving His Only Begotten Son Jn 3:16, is all of humanity , every single individual, however the scripture tells us otherwise. Scripture makes it quite clear that only a particular People are the Objects of Christ's Love and Death ! Matt 1:21

21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Jn 13:1

1Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

Eph 5:25

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Jn 10:11,15

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

The Purpose of the Incarnation was to save His People from their sins, to save His Church ! Jesus has clearly stated this. Also Jesus makes it clear that not all sinners are His Sheep Jn 10:26

26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

All men are sinners, but not all sinners are sheep. That Christ's Sheep are sinners is seen from the fact that Christ must lay down His Life for them Rom 5:8

8But God commendeth his love toward us[The Church], in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

So all men without exception are sinful sinners, but not all men without exception are sinners that are Sheep, and Christ only specified that He layed down His Life for the Sheep !

beloved57
January 2nd, 2012, 12:41 AM
Since the man of sin religion rejects the Truth of God's discriminate Election of some to Salvation by Grace, then those who shall be the objects of God's Justice were not determined by God, but by men. In their false gospel men, not God determines who are objects of God's Saving Grace or of His Divine Justice, which contradicts Rom 9:20-23

20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

This passage of the Gospel that Paul Preached tells us God made and determined which vessels were made for destruction and which ones made for His mercy !

The man of sin religions deny God this prerogative and gives it to man and his so called freewill, making him God over his own destiny !

beloved57
January 2nd, 2012, 01:42 AM
Matt 24:24

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Jesus warned His Church of these things, and what to expect in the very end time right before His Second Coming ! Most False preachers of our day, who call themselves preachers of Grace, that is, Salvation by Grace instead of the Law, these have fallen prey to a subtle heresy called neonomianism :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonomianism

Which basically teaches that the Gospel is a New Law prescribed by the New covenant, a much easier or duty or requirement or obligation that man can perform in order to get saved, however this subtlety undermines Salvation by Grace, for all it does is replace the mosaic law keeping for salvation, with evangelical duties and laws such as believing and repenting, which still makes Salvation to be by works or law keeping, and falls short of the biblical teaching of Salvation by Grace ! Its a False Gospel, a extremely popular and accepted in organized religion today ! But Thank God for Election, for His Elect will escape this deadly deception !

tudorturtl
January 2nd, 2012, 02:25 AM
Quite simply my friend, if there is not free will, there can not be love, and we are all just robots doing what we were programmed to do, so leave us alone.
Because we have no free will to change our minds and follow what you say. so why huff and puff?

meshak
January 2nd, 2012, 07:20 AM
Belove,

You make up your own Gospel and following violent man Calvin, you should not call yourself Christian. You are lying to God and to the world.

beloved57
January 2nd, 2012, 08:19 AM
tud


if there is not free will, there can not be love

Freewill is a doctrine of the devil, not taught in scripture, no matter how you try to spin it !

beloved57
January 2nd, 2012, 08:20 AM
Belove,

You make up your own Gospel and following violent man Calvin, you should not call yourself Christian. You are lying to God and to the world.

Yeah right, you just reject the Truth, call it what you may ! We will see at the Judgment !

meshak
January 2nd, 2012, 08:38 AM
Yeah right, you just reject the Truth, call it what you may ! We will see at the Judgment !

When you make up your own doctrine and follow man, you are rejecting the Truth, man.

And you dont know the fact that you are not the judge of yourselvs claiming to be elect or saved or born again or whatever. You guys are in a mess.

You don't know the Lord is. Get back to the basics instead of pretedning to be know-it-all.

ThePresbyteers
January 2nd, 2012, 09:27 AM
I found lots of free will instructions in this book
and still haven't found any in the Bible

http://stump-parrish.xomba.com/sites/xomba.com/files/how_to_get_to_heaven_for_dummies.png

beloved57
January 2nd, 2012, 11:07 AM
mes


When you make up your own doctrine and follow man, you are rejecting the Truth, man.

We will see at the judgment what Doctrine you rejected ! I am telling you now it is God's !

beloved57
January 2nd, 2012, 11:26 AM
Dan 4:26

26And whereas they commanded to leave the stump of the tree roots; thy kingdom shall be sure unto thee, after that thou shalt have known that the heavens do rule.

The Heaven's do rule means God rules, His Kingdom [Throne] rules as per Ps 103:19

19The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.

The man of sin religions of the world does not know the True and Living God, who rules all, even every man. The man of sin religions believe that man rules through his so called freewill, yes, even that it rules and overrules God's Purposes and Decrees ! Dan 4:25

25That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.

It is just impossible for one to believe in man's freewill and to believe in the True God as per Jn 17:3

3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Dan 4:34-37

34And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

35And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

36At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.

37Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

No one can worship God aright without [experientially knowing] that He rules the world, the universe, absolutely and at all times, in all places, and all people ! Those who know this God will never bow to the idol god of man's freewill..

meshak
January 2nd, 2012, 11:29 AM
mes



We will see at the judgment what Doctrine you rejected ! I am telling you now it is God's !

I don't reject Jesus like trins.

Your selfrghtious religion will not save you, friend.

beloved57
January 2nd, 2012, 06:04 PM
meshak


I don't reject Jesus like trins.

Yes you do. You believe in salvation by works ! The performance of man !

beloved57
January 2nd, 2012, 10:33 PM
Ps 132:14

This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.

The word desire is the hebrew verb 'avah which means:


) desire, incline, covet, wait longingly, wish, sigh, want, be greedy, prefer

a) (Piel) to desire, crave (food and drink)

b) (Hithpael) to desire, long for, lust after (of bodily appetites)

If God, The Almighty desires something, then He will cause it to be so ! Job confirms this in Job 23:13

13But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

This is about God, and Holy Inspiration states that what He souls desireth, even that [what He desireth] He Doeth ! The word doeth is the hebrew verb`asah and means:


to do, fashion, accomplish, make

a) (Qal)

1) to do, work, make, produce

a) to do

b) to work

c) to deal (with)

d) to act, act with effect, effect

What God Almighty desires, He will effect, or He will produce it !

Its the same word translated perform here in Isa 9:7

7Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Now this Truth about God presents to the man of sin ministers and followers a gigantic problem ! You see, they falsely teach that God desires all men without exception to be saved and to come into the Knowledge of the Truth, based upon a perverted understanding of 1 Tim 2:4

4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

They wickedly teach that God does not get what He wishes for, or wants, or desires in contradiction to Job 23:13 !

The word for will in 1 Tim 2:4 is the greek word thelō and means:


to will, have in mind, intend

a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose

b) to desire, to wish

c) to love

1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing

d) to take delight in, have pleasure

They teach that what God desires, wishes for does not happen in regards to 1 Tim 2:4 !

And if you notice the word also means determined, so they also teach that what God determines here in 1 Tim 2:4, shall not come to pass ! Folks thats Blasphemy and impious. Its a attack against the very Character of God to teach that the Almighty desires something to be done, and He does not do it !

The scripture teaches that even the desire of a righteous person shall be granted Prov 10:24

The fear of the wicked, it shall come upon him: but the desire of the righteous shall be granted.

But yet the desire of the Righteous God, does not accomplish what He desires ! Ps 11:7

For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.

beloved57
January 6th, 2012, 07:29 AM
Matt 7:13-16

13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Ye know them by the fruit of their doctrines and understanding !

The antichrist ministers and followers manifest their antichrist sentiments by opposing the Truth of Christ's Work on the Cross as actually not potentially, saving all for whom He died, to that of not saving any at all, but only making all men without exception savable ! By savable, I mean only potentially saved, the crowning touch must be provided by man, hence men according to them are finally saved by what man does, and not by what Christ did, hence crowning themselves as their own saviours by their wisdom !

beloved57
January 10th, 2012, 05:17 AM
1 Jn 4:3

3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The Antichrist folks is not a person, but a spirit, a Spirit that comes in the name of Christ Rev 13:11, but denies His Gospel Doctrines !

beloved57
January 10th, 2012, 06:47 PM
If Faith or believing in Christ, or even repentance be a prerequisite , a condition, a requirement or any of that, then they become works, yet the scriptures make it clear that works are antithesis to Faith; however if Faith becomes a duty or requirement for getting saved, and Salvation is by Grace, but yet its through a work of duty, such nonsense mixes Grace with Works or Grace with Duty or law, and consequently Grace is no more Grace, Paul's very point here Rom 11:5-6

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Many teach what is called Duty Faith ! Lets look at that word duty: The dictionary says:


something that one is expected or required to do by moral or legal obligation.

2.
the binding or obligatory force of something that is morally or legally right; moral or legal obligation.

3.
an action or task required by a person's position or occupation; function: the duties of a clergyman.



4.
the respectful and obedient conduct due a parent, superior, elder, etc.

Notice, a Task :

a definite piece of work assigned to, falling to, or expected of a person; duty.

any piece of work.

So, you see,once we begin to enter Faith and Repentance as duties to be performed to get saved, we depart from Salvation by Grace and proclaim salvation by Works !

beloved57
January 11th, 2012, 04:22 AM
Instead of the Work of Christ being the sole determiner of a person's Eternal destiny unto Glory, the followers of the man of sin religions insist that it is the freewill of man, or man's consent that determines who goes into Eternal Glory. They teach that God's Salvaic Purposes are thwarted unless man concurs with it ! Making God's will dependent upon man's will. They teach God's Will 1 Tim 2:4 is contingent upon man's will acquiesce ! So God's creature determines The Sovereign's will, this if course is nothing short of Blasphemy !

beloved57
January 11th, 2012, 12:50 PM
Lets briefly examine some of the text that the man of sin followers manipulate and pervert to their own destruction, in order to give man the praise for his own salvation !

Joshua 24:15

15And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

The issue here is not with spiritually dead sinners alienated from the life of God, but to the jewish nation, who had already been established in a national covenant which began back in Ex 20. Here in Joshua they were being exhorted to serve God that had redeemed them out of the House of Bondage in Egypt instead of the strange gods of the Land they now occupied. There is no semblance here because this exhortation goes to people already in a covenantal relationship with God, whereas the unregenerate have no Covenant relationship with God, unless it is still a secret in the counsels of God. However, the Exhortation here is in light of being in a confirmed relationship whereby they had experienced corporate redemption as a people, and in fact had moved into the promised earthly inheritance !

beloved57
January 11th, 2012, 01:37 PM
Another abused scripture that the man of sin followers abuse to their own destruction is Rom 10:9-10

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

The issue here is if a unregenerate heart is meant. The heart here performing belief into Christ is a Regenerated Heart, a new Heart given in the New Birth, a Heart that will Trust in its Progenitor, the Lord Jesus Christ. All who do Trust in Him were His Seed, and born of an incorruptible seed.

A heart that is not regenerated is wicked Jer 17:9

9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

And by Nature it is under the dominion of satan and opposes belief in Christ 2 Cor 4:4

4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Blindness of mind is the same as blindness of heart Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

The conditional if's here as if they shall confess or if they believe in their heart, these are not conditional if's but evidential ifs, evidence if whether or not they have been born again and given a new Heart. Paul knew that if anyone would, as a result of Gospel Preaching, confess Christ with their mouth [especially jews] and believe in their heart, that God hath raised Him from the dead, such ones would be in a saved regenerated state. These were not if conditions for men to do, to get themselves saved as the work mongrels of the man of sin religions teach. I do not care what no one says, the scripture no where calls on a sinful, devil controlled heart to believe into Christ, and neither can it !

beloved57
January 11th, 2012, 04:48 PM
1 Jn 3:23

23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Acts 17:30

30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

For it is consistent with God to command those Having Spiritual Life to perform Spiritual acts or deeds, Like Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. This is consistent with the promises of the New Covenant. It reads Ezk 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Now notice what is First in the divine Order. The Giving of a New heart and a New Spirit, this is New Birth or Regeneration !

And as a consequence of that, God said He would cause them to walk in His Statues ! One of which is Faith, He will cause them to walk by Faith Rom 4:12

And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

2 Cor 5:7

For we walk by faith, not by sight

Also that word for walk, as walk in my statues [commandments] the hebrew word means:

to go, walk, come

a) (Qal)

1) to go, walk, come, depart, proceed, move, go away

2) to die, live, manner of life (fig.)

b) (Hiphil) to lead, bring, lead away, carry, cause to walk

So God will cause them to Live by Faith or to walk by Faith !

Also God says they shall keep my Judgments and DO THEM !

Perform them ! If God commands them to Repent as Paul states in Acts 17:30, then they shall perform it, do it !

So that is why God through the Apostles commanded men to Repent and Believe, because if they did, that would be evidence of them having been partakers of the New Covenant and that they had been given a New Heart and a New Spirit put in them !

Now understand this, If believing in Christ unto salvation is not a Spiritual Act, performed by those who have been given Spiritual Life, then we must conclude that men performed something in the flesh, that awarded them Everlasting Life ! That friends is Antichrist !

Grosnick Marowbe
January 11th, 2012, 04:52 PM
1 Jn 3:23

23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Acts 17:30

30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

For it is consistent with God to command those Having Spiritual Life to perform Spiritual acts or deeds, Like Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. This is consistent with the promises of the New Covenant. It reads Ezk 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Now notice what is First in the divine Order. The Giving of a New heart and a New Spirit, this is New Birth or Regeneration !

And as a consequence of that, God said He would cause them to walk in His Statues ! One of which is Faith, He will cause them to walk by Faith Rom 4:12

And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

2 Cor 5:7

For we walk by faith, not by sight

Also that word for walk, as walk in my statues [commandments] the hebrew word means:

to go, walk, come

a) (Qal)

1) to go, walk, come, depart, proceed, move, go away

2) to die, live, manner of life (fig.)

b) (Hiphil) to lead, bring, lead away, carry, cause to walk

So God will cause them to Live by Faith or to walk by Faith !

Also God says they shall keep my Judgments and DO THEM !

Perform them ! If God commands them to Repent as Paul states in Acts 17:30, then they shall perform it, do it !

So that is why God through the Apostles commanded men to Repent and Believe, because if they did, that would be evidence of them having been partakers of the New Covenant and that they had been given a New Heart and a New Spirit put in them !

Now understand this, If believing in Christ unto salvation is not a Spiritual Act, performed by those who have been given Spiritual Life, then we must conclude that men performed something in the flesh, that awarded them Everlasting Life ! That friends is Antichrist !

glorydaz
January 11th, 2012, 06:52 PM
Lets briefly examine some of the text that the man of sin followers manipulate and pervert to their own destruction, in order to give man the praise for his own salvation !

Joshua 24:15

15And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

The issue here is not with spiritually dead sinners alienated from the life of God, but to the jewish nation, who had already been established in a national covenant which began back in Ex 20. Here in Joshua they were being exhorted to serve God that had redeemed them out of the House of Bondage in Egypt instead of the strange gods of the Land they now occupied. There is no semblance here because this exhortation goes to people already in a covenantal relationship with God, whereas the unregenerate have no Covenant relationship with God, unless it is still a secret in the counsels of God. However, the Exhortation here is in light of being in a confirmed relationship whereby they had experienced corporate redemption as a people, and in fact had moved into the promised earthly inheritance !

It's quite convenient to dismiss what's written in the Old Testament as not being applicable to us today, but that's error.

This is why Scripture was quoted so often by Jesus and His followers....because it is applicable to us.

Those words about "choosing" were not just for Israel, any more than any of the promises and admonitions contained in Scripture were just for Israel. (As you should be able to see from reading verses such as the following.)

Deut. 29:13-15 That he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he hath said unto thee, and as he hath sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath; But with him that standeth here with us this day before the LORD our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day:

beloved57
January 12th, 2012, 12:31 AM
The Followers of the man of sin religions just love to take scripture out of context of meaning in order to promote their ungodly philosophy. One such passage is Isa 1:18-19

18Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

19If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

They somehow apply this text to mean that God is reasoning spiritually with all the ungodly sinners in the world to do something that get them saved. Now the scripture plainly says this about the unregenerate mind which is the center of our reasoning ! Col 1:21

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

Eph 4:18

18Having the understanding or mind darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

But here, in Isa 1:18-19 it is only God's Covenant people being spoken to here, that nation apart from all others that was under a National Covenant. God had become weary with their evil ways, and in so many words, calling for them [not any other people] to repent, in which compliance to this call, that physical nation, had absolutely nothing to do with Life Everlasting in Christ Jesus, but that they should eat of the good of the Land vs 19

Isa 1:19

19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

Disobedience would lead to national ruin. Now of course the appeal God made here, may indeed make some in that wicked nation sorry for their sins, and seek mercy and reformation, but no spiritual application is at all in this passage. The sins of vs 18 are national sins !

Now if any spiritual application can be derived from it otherwise, it would be that by the power of the holy Spirit, that regenerated sinners would be made sensible and reasonable sinners like the prodigal son Lk 15:17

17And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

or the Publican Lk 18:13

13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

Or those Jesus specifically addresses here Matt 11:28

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

For only such can be spiritually and sensibly reasonable, who have been given spiritual life, it is then only Divine facts can be received to the good of ones soul !

Grosnick Marowbe
January 12th, 2012, 12:44 AM
The Followers of the man of sin religions just love to take scripture out of context of meaning in order to promote their ungodly philosophy. One such passage is Isa 1:18-19

18Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

19If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

They somehow apply this text to mean that God is reasoning spiritually with all the ungodly sinners in the world to do something that get them saved. Now the scripture plainly says this about the unregenerate mind which is the center of our reasoning ! Col 1:21

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

Eph 4:18

18Having the understanding or mind darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

But here, in Isa 1:18-19 it is only God's Covenant people being spoken to here, that nation apart from all others that was under a National Covenant. God had become weary with their evil ways, and in so many words, calling for them [not any other people] to repent, in which compliance to this call, that physical nation, had absolutely nothing to do with Life Everlasting in Christ Jesus, but that they should eat of the good of the Land vs 19

Isa 1:19

19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

Disobedience would lead to national ruin. Now of course the appeal God made here, may indeed make some in that wicked nation sorry for their sins, and seek mercy and reformation, but no spiritual application is at all in this passage. The sins of vs 18 are national sins !

Now if any spiritual application can be derived from it otherwise, it would be that by the power of the holy Spirit, that regenerated sinners would be made sensible and reasonable sinners like the prodigal son Lk 15:17

17And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

or the Publican Lk 18:13

13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

Or those Jesus specifically addresses here Matt 11:28

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

For only such can be spiritually and sensibly reasonable, who have been given spiritual life, it is then only Divine facts can be received to the good of ones soul !

beloved57
January 12th, 2012, 05:31 AM
You're just an "Island of your own" aren't you?

Address the post with it's scriptural presentation !

Grosnick Marowbe
January 12th, 2012, 06:52 AM
Address the post with it's scriptural presentation !

ThePresbyteers
January 12th, 2012, 07:53 AM
If you would present the truth without running it through your "Calvinist filter" I might.
If you stop taking your BibleBlocker pills, You'll see the difference between General calls
and Effectual calls. Over-dose filters will cause you to see doubles. Both calls are the
same when given out to everyone. The Effectual calls are only for the Elects.

Escape from your arminian doctor


http://bp3.blogger.com/_JgqeBIFA25Q/RdPLlWuVLsI/AAAAAAAAAKI/-15UB3usgpQ/s400/calvinix.gif

Grosnick Marowbe
January 12th, 2012, 08:19 AM
If you stop taking your BibleBlocker pills, You'll see the difference between General calls
and Effectual calls. Over-dose filters will cause you to see doubles. Both calls are the
same when given out to everyone. The Effectual calls are only for the Elects.

Escape from your arminian doctor


http://bp3.blogger.com/_JgqeBIFA25Q/RdPLlWuVLsI/AAAAAAAAAKI/-15UB3usgpQ/s400/calvinix.gif

ThePresbyteers
January 12th, 2012, 08:36 AM
You're a genius.
Thank you !
I even installed a Rapture Hatch

http://itodyaso.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/9uwwa.jpg

beloved57
January 14th, 2012, 05:57 PM
If you would present the truth without running it through your "Calvinist filter" I might.

Calling God's Truth calvinism is not going to help you in the day of Judgment !

beloved57
January 15th, 2012, 04:52 AM
Jn 3:17

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

One of and perhaps the Main Purpose of Christ's coming into the world, was that it Might Be Saved. Now according to antichrist followers, this Purpose of God failed, because if world as they say means every single person without exception, then unless everyone without exception be saved, God's Purpose has failed. You see, the clause " Might Be Saved" is stating a Divine Purpose, conditioned upon Christ coming into the World ! But if World means His Church, then God's Purpose for sending Christ into the world to save it has been successful. Not one of those shall perish, who He has purpose to be saved !

beloved57
January 15th, 2012, 11:55 AM
The Man of sin religions who preach that Christ died for everyone without exception, they deny the efficacy of Christ's Death or Blood to save who He died for. The word efficacy means:

Power or capacity to produce a desired effect; effectiveness.

They deny that Christ's Death and Blood Produces, Effects Salvation for all whom He died.

They preach the offers of saving Grace, they will argue that even though that by the Grace of God, Christ tasted death for every man without exception, yet everyone without exception whom He tasted death for will not be saved, because they did not do something ?? If they must still do something, then Christ's death in and of itself did not save them !

So there you have it folks, they deny the efficacy of Christ's Death to save those whom He died for, His death does not save ! Thats a Blasphemy ! To say that Christ's Blood does not save those it was shed for, what worse Antichrist sentiment can be expressed ?

Jesus plainly Says of the Efficacy of His Own Death, this Jn 12:32

32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

In other words, If I be lifted up, meaning His Cross, by that, He will save all for whom He was lifted up in behalf of ! To be drawn to Christ is to be saved by Him !

beloved57
January 15th, 2012, 07:54 PM
Acts 16:30-31

30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Once again another passage of scripture that the man of sin followers pervert and teach as though Paul was himself teaching belief in Christ is a condition man must do to get saved ! Yes Paul was responding to the inquiry of "Sirs, what must I do to be saved ?"

And of course we have his reply in vs 31 "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. "

In the greek Paul gave an imperative ! We conclude that the Apostle judged this person to be a spiritually awakened sinner, a sinner that evidenced New Life had been given by God's Spirit and Grace; which in such cases it's appropriate to give Testimony of the Word of God [vs 32] evidencing that they are in a saved condition, for one must be in a saved state in order to believe the message of the Cross, or otherwise it is foolishness 1 Cor 1:18

18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Saved is in the present tense in the greek, and should be rendered " being saved" The Gospel is the being the power of God unto us that are being saved, that means in a saved state !

beloved57
January 20th, 2012, 04:21 PM
Rev 13:6

6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

The Blasphemous Freewill man of sin doctrines, repudiates the Efficacious Nature of the Work of Christ and of the Holy Spirit, who is an extension of Christ's Finished Work, and they exalt the creatures ability. The Spirit's Sovereign Working in Redeemed sinners both to will[desire] and to do [effect] of God's Good Pleasure and produce Faith in Christ, has been been substituted to mans freewill to do it !

They also disdain the Eternal Decree's of the Father's Personal Choice and Election of some in Christ before the world began Eph 1:4, they speak degradingly of the Saviour's Redeeming Death, that actually gives Life. I have had some tell me, that Christ's death in and of itself saved no one !! They arrogantly despise the efficacious Work of the Holy Spirit, to that of a resistible influence that they can or cannot yield to according to their own freewill ! All of that is Blasphemy Against God and His Temple !

beloved57
January 20th, 2012, 10:11 PM
Those who say they believe in Salvation by the Grace of God, but yet insist on man performing a condition before he is Justified or saved, such as faith or believing, repentance or accepting Christ, water baptism or whatever, they only ascribe Salvation to God in word, but their real feelings are different and actually ascribe Salvation to themselves, the act of the creature, their performance or their doing. This will be brought to light in the Day of Judgment !

beloved57
January 22nd, 2012, 09:44 PM
Anti-Christ, the Man of sin is nothing but False Christianity, the deceived who thought they were saved Matt 7:22-23

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

beloved57
January 24th, 2012, 04:17 PM
1 Jn 4:1

1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

To Try the spirits is a present tense imperative in the greek, the True Child of God is commanded to be continually trying the spirits. That word try is dokimazō and means:

to test, examine, prove, scrutinise (to see whether a thing is genuine or not), as metals

We are to continually, ongoingly examine, scrutinies the teaching of others who confess Christianity, to determine or prove whether they are of God !

There is one notable characteristic that will without fail manifest who a false teacher is, and cannot be sent from God, and that is, anyone who does not believe or Teach that every single person Christ died for shall be saved. They will teach or Preach a christ that his death, his blood, in and of itself does not save anyone, but only makes it possible to get saved. These deceivers teach that Christ's Death saves or becomes effectual by means of a fallen mans faith, and or man's freewill decision !

beloved57
January 24th, 2012, 05:51 PM
2 Pet 2:1

1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.


The Most Popular Damnable Heresy in this generation is that of Christ died for everyone in the world to make salvation possible ! The word damnable is the greek word apōleia and means:

destroying, utter destruction

a) of vessels

2) a perishing, ruin, destruction

a) of money

b) the destruction which consists of eternal misery in hell

The word heresy is the greek word hairesis and means:

) act of taking, capture: e.g. storming a city

2) choosing, choice

3) that which is chosen

4) a body of men following their own tenets (sect or party)

a) of the Sadducees

b) of the Pharisees

c) of the Christians

5) dissensions arising from diversity of opinions and aims

It is the choosing of a opinion that is opposed to the Christian Faith revealed in scripture !

These opinions are erroneous and destructive !

Now one of the reasons that the lie of Jesus Christ dying for all without to make Salvation merely possible, is because this way man can become his or her own saviour or deliver. If the Death of Christ only provided an opportunity to get saved, if it only made salvation possible or available, then one is saved actually not because of what Christ did, but because of what man does !

This makes man saved or justified by their works, and they become righteous by their obedience, which opposes the Gospel Truth Paul preached here Rom 5:19

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

beloved57
January 25th, 2012, 07:51 AM
So the Lie that Christ died for all men without exception is a damnable heresy because when all said and done it gives man the foundation to become his own saviour !

This damnable heresy also makes God's Eternal Love to be void, that it has no effect !

Sure, from a humanistic standpoint, to say that God Loves everyone is seems really nice of God, and for Him to only Love some, namely the Elect, makes God seem unloving ! So whats more popular ?

But God's Love effects results to those He Loved. It was because of His Great Love, that He quickened those He Loved when they were dead in trespasses and sins Eph 2:4-5

4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

You see, First of all, God's Love is Great Love because He is The Great God ! And His Love is in action and deed, so because of His Love to some dead sinners, who are without strength, dead in sin, He quickens them together with Christ Jesus.

The word quickened is the greek word syzōopoieō and means : to make one alive together .

All whom He Loved He makes them alive together with Christ. Also Col 2:13 teaches the same thing

But if God Loved all without exception as it is falsely taught, and all without exception are not made alive together with Christ, then that makes God's great Love void, and that it had nothing to do with saving ones soul from death.

So thats another blasphemy of the false teaching of Christ died for all without exception !

beloved57
January 26th, 2012, 06:29 AM
Eph 3:9-11

9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Another indictment against the False Teaching of Christ died for everyone without exception is that its a direct insult to the very Wisdom of God centered in His Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus. It makes of God purposing to save His People whom Christ died for even knowing that it would not accomplish all His desire. He would sacrifice His Only Begotten Son for millions who would wind up in hell. This makes scriptures like Rom 11:33-36

33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

It makes God out to be liken unto the foolish builder Lk 14:28-30

28For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

29Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,

30Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.


Yes, God had the perfect plan in place to execute to save all for whom He Loved, to only have it come up short, He was not able to finish it !

beloved57
January 29th, 2012, 07:02 PM
The man of sin religions, preaching that Christ died for all men without exception, and yet all men without exception shall not be saved and shall die in their sins, it therefore deny's the Justice of God !

The scripture gospel states that Christ died for our sins according to the scripture 1 Cor 15:3

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Isa 53:5

5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Now if Christ was punished for ones sins, and that same one must be punished for their own sins, God's Justice is a lie, its non existent !

Christ appeasing God's Justice or propitiation was false !

beloved57
January 30th, 2012, 01:24 PM
The antichrist ministers and followers Blaspheme because they Teach that even those Christ hath satisfied the Demands of God's Law and Justice in behalf of, that they will still in the end have the Law in force against them Matt 25:41

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


ye cursed;
for having sinned against God, and his righteous law, they are cursed by it, which curses everyone that is under its works, as these were, and do not perfectly fulfil whatsoever it requires; and so were justly rejected of God, and hated by him: and therefore are condemned and sent, John Gill

The antichrist followers say that even though Christ, for whom He died, redeemed them from the curse of the Law, being made a curse for them Gal 3:13

That nevertheless, because they did not do something, They will be pronounced cursed again by God's Law as we see here ! This makes God Unjust, a God of Double Jeopardy ! He acquitted them once for Christ's sake, but because They did not perform a condition, He took away the acquittal and charged them with the crimes they had committed and punishes them for them..

beloved57
February 1st, 2012, 06:33 AM
The man of sins religions corrupt the Justice of God, because they are teaching millions for whom Christ died, shall go to hell for their sins. God's Justice can be called into question if that is True, simply because everyone Christ died for have a Legal Right and entitlement to Eternal Life, based upon the Righteousness of Jesus Christ Rom 6:23

23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 5:21

That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

The wages of sin Paul mentions in Rom 6:23, which is death, has been paid by Christ, for all that He died for, hence 1 Cor 15:3

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Thats the Legal Death for the sins wages Rom 6:23, God's Justice has been satisfied through Christ, now Grace must reign through Righteousness [Christ's Righteousness] unto Eternal Life through Jesus Christ.

In Rom 5:21 the word for righteousness, as through righteousness,it means:

in a narrower sense, justice or the virtue which gives each his due

God's Righteousness and Justice must give what is due for all those Christ acted as a Surety in behalf of, and that which is due, since their is no sin recorded against them, is Life, and that Everlastingly. Righteousness demands Life Prov 12:28, Rom 5:18, Now if all for whom Christ died do not receive Life Everlasting, as an Experiential Enjoyment for ever, God is Unjust to the Accomplishment of Christ's Surety Work for all He contracted to be their Surety before the foundation of the World !

beloved57
February 2nd, 2012, 09:55 AM
Rom 3:26

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

The man of sin religions and followers make God out to be a Unjust God, in that they falsely teach that many, yes millions upon millions for whom Christ died, shall died in their sins, because they did not meet some kind of condition. This however must be false teaching because the Imputation of all their sins had been laid upon Him Isa 53:6, and in consequence of that, He endured their punishment, yes all the punishment that their sins deserved by Divine Justice, He was even made a curse for them Gal 3:13, that is [in their stead], The Father's sword of Divine Justice smote Him Zech 13:7.

The Lord Jesus Christ paid all of the penal consequences for all whom He died, so Paul proclaims of them Rom 8:33-34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

And now all Law and Justice has been fully Satisfied, so that God is and must be Just in Justifying all that are believing in Jesus. God must be Just in putting away and forgiving all sin of those Christ died for or in behalf of ! The Man of sin religions deny God's Justice !

beloved57
February 3rd, 2012, 01:15 AM
It is not our believing that makes God Just to forgive our sins, nor ones confessing 1 Jn 1:9, but solely the Blood of Christ, for it was His Blood that put away the sins of the Church, even before they become Believers; Nor does it take for one to believe in Jesus, in order for Jesus to have died for them and put away their sins.

Before a modern day believer is even born a sinner, all of their sins and trespasses are already forgiven based on redemption through His Blood and for Christ's Sake. Eph 1:7

7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Eph 4:32

And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Note: Forgiveness of sins is not for the sake of our believing, or repenting, but God does it for Christ's Sake ! Ps 25:11

For thy name's sake, O LORD, pardon mine iniquity; for it is great.

Isa 43:25

I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

Now this forgiveness for Christ's Sake, who is God Man, takes in the consideration of all sins, before and after New Birth, and all types of sins, of omission and comission, with all sins of the heart and thoughts, and tongue !

beloved57
February 7th, 2012, 06:32 AM
The man of sin religion comprised of many religions, have this in common, they deny that God has been successful in His Purpose for sending Christ to die for sinners. They teach God has failed. For scripture teaches that Christ came to give His Life for many Matt 20:28, that He should suffer for their sins, The Just for the unjust 1 Pet 3:18, with the fruit being that He would bring them to God, that is Repentance Towards God Acts 20:21 ; Heb 6:1; 1 Thess 1:9

For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

That we being dead to sin [through the body of Christ] should live unto Righteousness 1 Pet 2:24

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

They Teach that God's Purpose has failed in Christ in bringing all for whom He Gave Christ to die for, That all will not experience Turning to God in Repentance and from serving Idols to serve the True Living God. They teach that millions whom God desired this for through Christ's Work, shall yet perish in their sins as unbelievers, hence God's Purpose failed !

beloved57
February 7th, 2012, 04:19 PM
Scripture presents a Truth of Christ giving Himself for a People for a specific Purpose as Per Eph 5:25-26

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Also Gal 1:4-5

4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

5To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

False Religion teaches that God's objective for which He willed for all those Christ gave Himself for, was not successful.

If they all were not sanctified and cleansed by the washing of water by the word, God failed;

And if they all were not delivered from this present world, according to the will of God, God has Failed.

Those who teach such, are antichrist !

beloved57
February 12th, 2012, 06:16 PM
One of the biggest lies ever told in apostate religion these days is that Salvation, Eternal Life is an offer, however no such lie is ever taught in scripture.

The Gift of God is given, and its received only as its been given. In other words, God giving automatically means it's received !

The dictionary defines the word Gift as:


gift
   [gift] Show IPA

noun
1.
something given voluntarily without payment in return, as to show favor toward someone, honor an occasion, or make a gesture of assistance; present.

2.
the act of giving.

3.
something bestowed or acquired without any particular effort by the recipient or without its being earned: Those extra points he got in the game were a total gift.

4.
a special ability or capacity; natural endowment; talent: the gift of saying the right thing at the right time.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gift

Its [Eternal Life] said to be the Gift of God Rom 6:23

23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The Gift of God is received Just as the wages of sin were received.

The Gift is bestowed or confer upon all for whom Christ died. It also means to impart or communicate the Gift of Eternal Life.

The main Truth is that its something that is done effectually. Now those of us who teach that Eternal Life is offered, thats telling a Lie.

Jn 10:28

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Jn 17:2

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

1 Jn 5:11

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.


Lk 1:77

To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

beloved57
February 13th, 2012, 04:27 AM
1 Cor 15:3

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1 Pet 2:24

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Unbelief is a sin according to God's word Rom 14:23

And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

This apply's to the believer and unbeliever ! Unbelief in the unregenerate makes God a Liar 1 Jn 5:10

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Even the Elect, while unregenerate, and opposing the external revelation of the Gospel, its doctrines and Truth's, we are sinning and making God a Liar, because at that time we believe not the record or testimony God gave of His Son, through a faithful witness of the Gospel of Christ, as to who He is, and what He has accomplished for God and God's Chosen People !

Ps 78:31-32

31The wrath of God came upon them, and slew the fattest of them, and smote down the chosen men of Israel.

32For all this they sinned still, and believed not for his wondrous works.

Another scripture that clearly identifies unbelief as a sin !

Now, if Christ died for ones sins, it covers all their trespasses Col 2:13

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Ps 85:2

Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people, thou hast covered all their sin. Selah.

If Christ died for our sins, then unbelief is included and it would be unjust for God to punish anyone Christ died for because of their unbelief, and in fact He doesn't, because He cannot deny Himself His Faithfulness to the accomplishments of His Son's Death , so Paul writes 2 Tim 2:13

If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

God must be Faithful and Just to forgive our sins, for Christ's sake 1 Jn 1:9

9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This action of God's is not predicated upon our confessing our sins as it may seem to be saying, but upon the Work of Christ on our behalf !

Anyone teaching that people go to hell for unbelief, in spite of the fact that Christ died for all their sins, they teach a false gospel, and make God to be unjust !

beloved57
February 16th, 2012, 11:32 AM
Rev 5:9

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Now the antichrist followers say that Christ redeemed by His own Blood, many that shall be in hell, in other words, they should have been able to sing the New Song here, but instead they will here these words from the one that redeemed them with His Blood Matt 7:23

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

This even after He redeemed them from all iniquity Titus 2:14

14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

But what utter blasphemy against the blood of Christ, for Redemption is by His Blood alone. Many in their ignorance appeal to 2 Pet 2:1 in support of their Blasphemy.

They deny that His Divine Work of Redemption effectually ransomed from hell and the penalty of sin, all for whom He died. They deny that they are freed from the penalty of the law, by Christ's propitiation and Satisfaction of the Divine Justice Rom 3:24-26; Gal 3:13; Heb 9:12.

This ransom price was paid for a definite People Rev 5:9; 14:3

Most also feel this issue of Limited Atonement is just a matter of opinion or something a man named john calvin made up, but I warn you that it's a Essential Truth of the Gospel; In fact those who teach that Christ died for all without exception, and knowing from scripture evidence that all without exception will be saved, they deny the power and Efficaciousness of Christ's saving and Redeeming Blood, for there is just no other way to put it. It also makes God the Father a failure, the Son a Failure, and the Holy Ghost a failure.

Redemption is an Act of God's Power Neh 1:10

Now these are thy servants and thy people, whom thou hast redeemed by thy great power, and by thy strong hand.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Power of God in Redeeming His people 1 Cor 1:24

But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

beloved57
February 20th, 2012, 04:23 AM
Prov 16:5

Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

The one thing that all apostate religions have in common despite their many diversity, and giving of lip service to the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ, to them, all would say ultimately a persons Salvation depends upon and is determined by man himself !

Another thing, although this antichrist harlot religious system is comprised of many different factions, and even disagree with one another in many things, they still all have in common their opposition to the Gospel of Sovereign Grace, in order to promote their various systems of Salvation by self righteousness, freewill and or good works ! These are the proud in heart !

beloved57
February 21st, 2012, 06:05 AM
The man of sin religion is that religious philosophy that has captivated the whole world Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

of all whose names had not been written in the book of Life, Note: John calls that a world of all whose names had not been written in the book of life, that implies that a world had been written in that book of life, who did not worship the beast !

Now this religion which worships the beast, is the religion of mans freewill and or salvation by works or mans personal obedience ! This religious philosophy is inspired by satan and comes up out of the abyss Rev 9:1-4 and God has ordained that all the reprobates be deceived by it as they also shall hate the Truth 2 Thess 2:10-12

10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness [freewill religion].

All of these deceived souls have one thing in common, they all conclude that Salvation is determined by man. This freewill or works orientated religious thought is very popular in the masses all over the whole world, in all stations of life. It is embraced by the rich and the poor, the young and the old Rev 13:16

16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Yes, freewill and works orientated religious thought is the religion of the whole world as we speak !

beloved57
February 25th, 2012, 07:32 PM
To those False teachers and antichrist followers who say Christ did not die for the sin of unbelief, then unbelief would damn everyone, because all are unbelievers. You would have to rewrite scripture and instead of Paul proclaiming in His Gospel 1 Cor 15:3

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

It should read Christ died for our sins except for unbelief ! This would be adding or taking away from the Gospel !

Also, if Christ did not die for the sin of unbelief, and man is saved from sin by his act of believing, then man becomes his own saviour, for he was saved apart from the atoning blood of Christ for sin, since as they say, Christ did not shed His Blood for that sin, there is no other alternative.

You see, if Christ did not die for the sin of unbelief, and we all are unbelievers by nature, then even after we become believers, God in Justice would still have to condemn us in that Great Day for that one sin that was not covered by the Blood of Christ, Unbelief !

beloved57
February 25th, 2012, 08:37 PM
How do wicked men make their ability to believe their saviour from sin. Most who believe that Christ did not die for unbelief, do believe that their ability to believe on Christ is what saved them, and so consequently it was their believing that removed the consequences of all their other sins, since Jesus said plainly this Jn 8:24

24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins [plural].

So this results in not Christ's blood cleansing from all sin, but mans act of believing causing God to cleanse from all sin. Folks all this madness is due because the antichrist believers reject Limited Atonement !

If Christ did not die for the sin of unbelief, then unbelief would send everyone to hell, hence Christ should not have died for any sins !

beloved57
February 26th, 2012, 07:20 PM
A sure indication of a false religion, no matter how much with their lips they honor God and Christ [Isa 29:13] and their message of salvation seems to be true [ Matt 24:24; 2 Cor 11:13-15], yet without fail, they will add the works of man, something man must do [to perform (an act, duty, role, etc.)] like believe, or accept, in order to get saved; In some kind of way, Salvation must be conditioned on man ! Every false way or religion teaches this, even if they never say it , or even if they deny it, the inference is telling !

Folks anyone teaching that Salvation is conditioned in any way, shape or form upon man doing something, is Antichrist; for Christ alone saves a sinner from A to Z. Every aspect of One's Salvation, past present and future is solely conditioned on Christ's Work of the Cross plus nothing !

So you religionists who appeal to Eph 2:8 in support of your false conclusion that faith is a condition to perform by man in order to get saved, then you should consider the very next verse that reads Eph 2:9

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Not of works means conditions or performances by man, lest any man should boast !

beloved57
March 2nd, 2012, 09:37 PM
Deut 30:19

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

I am sure this gets the attention of those who promote the error of man's freewill. These dreamers deny that all men by nature are dead in sin and slaves to sin, the flesh and the devil, but believe however they by their own freewill can choose to serve God, from such Scriptures they twist as Josh 24:15

15And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Men in our pride and self righteousness believe because a choice is given, we have the ability to do so, that is to make a good and holy choice Jer 13:23

Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

You give a meat eating lion the choice to choose between a fat juicy zebra steak to eat and a bowl of salad, which one will he choose every time ? The zebra steak f course, and thats because he is being governed by his nature, with this in mind, we can understand Jere 13:23 above !

The natural man cannot make choices that Glorify God, because he is dead to God !

The scripture in Jer speaks again about the heart of the natural man Jer 17:9

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? We by Nature cannot know how wicked our hearts really are and how deceitful until a New Birth takes Place !

Most people read this verse about the wickedness of the human heart and immediately think of people who are murderers and fornicators and thieves and drunks, which deeds are wicked, but the verse also describes the very sincerely religious, the moralist, the kind hearted toward our fellow man and etc, and thats how the heart is deceitful, because by nature we see these things not as wicked. Men see these things as good and things that recommend us to God, however when it comes to having a Right relationship with God, and these things be our Hearts Trust, they are wicked works and dead works before God. They are the dead works that the Blood of Christ purges His Elect from Heb 9:14

14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

The Blood is applied to all the Elect, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit 1 Pet 1:1-2

2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Sprinkling means application of the blood. The word sprinkle means:

a sprinkling (purification)

a) blood of sprinkling

1) i.e. appointed for sprinkling (serving to purify)

There is nothing an unregenerate heart can do to please God, so Paul wrote Rom 8:8

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

They cannot, so they will not ! Our repentance in the flesh cannot please God, Our Faith or believing in the flesh cannot please God, nothing can, and yet many deceived souls believe that while unregenerate, they exercised faith that pleases God Heb 11:6, and that gave them a right to everlasting life, in direct opposition to God's Word. So again Jer 17:9

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

We cannot choose Life ! It must be Given by Grace !

beloved57
March 5th, 2012, 06:02 AM
The Antichrist followers preach and believe today that sinful, spiritually dead, unregenerate sinners, has the ability to believe on Christ; however this is a lie, one which scripture does not teach, in fact it is said of some that they could not believe, even in light of many miracles Jn 12:39,38

39Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

Thats because the Arm of the Lord had not been revealed to them vs 38

38That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

Mans ability to believe on the Lord is a lie against the Truth, if this were so or true, then the natural man, the carnal man, the man of flesh can do something spiritually that pleases God Heb 11:6, but in the flesh man cannot please God Rom 8:8

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

The unregenerate man cannot or does not have the ability to please God, which believing on Christ does please God. Being in the flesh is antithesis to being born of the Spirit Jn 3:6-7

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

There is no in between, one is either born of the Spirit or not ! So consequently the flesh cannot [without ability] to obey God's Commands, which one is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ Acts 16:30-31

30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

The word believe here is in the greek an imperative which is:

The imperative mood corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding. Thus, Jesus' phrase, "Repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mk.1:15) is not at all an "invitation," but an absolute command requiring full obedience on the part of all hearers.

That this command is something that pleases God cannot be denied 1 Jn 3:22-23


22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Anyone therefore teaching that man, the unregenerate man, the man not born of the Spirit can believe on Christ Savingly, a Spiritual Act, they are Liars, they lie against the Truth. That even goes for myself ! If me or anyone teaches that, they are Liars !

beloved57
March 5th, 2012, 07:07 AM
Also, scripture teaches that its not of ones own ability to believe, but that its by the exceeding greatness of God's Power, it is put forth to them that believe Eph 1:19-20

19And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

The word believe here in this passage and the same word believe in Jn 3:16, are both in the greek present tense participles, meaning , they are believing, and so Eph 1:19 informs us that this believing is a effect of God's Mighty Power !

The word working is the greek word energeia and means:

working, efficiency

its with note that it is the same word Paul used to describe how Christ made Him an Apostle and Believer Eph 3:7


7Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

So anyone teaching about man's ability to believe, or that the natural man has the ability to believe on Christ, they are Liars, in fact lying against the Holy Spirit of God, who alone as the Spirit of Grace causes an Person to Believe, Faith to believe is of His working, His effecting, His Fruit Gal 5:22 ; Jn 6:29 !

He is the Spirit of Grace Zech 12:10

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Heb 10:29

Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Believing comes from the Spirit of Grace folks, and not mans freewill ability, those who believe otherwise have been greatly deceived !

SeraphimsCherub
March 5th, 2012, 07:25 AM
beloved 57 i always thought Mr. "free-will" Adam,and "I will" Lucifer are the best of friends!

SeraphimsCherub
March 5th, 2012, 07:34 AM
And just like a "serpent","freewill" is the most "subtle" of all lies.

beloved57
March 6th, 2012, 08:31 AM
Christ's Death was meted out in proportion for those He definitely died for, their sins !

More on this erroneous concept that Christ's Death could save more than for whom it was intended to save, for thats a lie, for God does not operate that way, but in Just Measures Prov 16:11

A just weight and balance are the LORD's: all the weights of the bag are his work.

God will mete out punishment according to a mans works ! Jer 25:14

For many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of them also: and I will recompense them according to their deeds, and according to the works of their own hands.

Matt 16:27

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

God is of exactness, accuracy, Justice and Equity. Now if He shall Judge each of the wicked according to their works in strict justice for their sins, then He Judged Christ accordingly for each man Christ stood in the place and stead of, that is Just God's Nature to do so because He is a Just God Deut 32:4

He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Christ was given a Cup to drink Matt 26:42, a cup among other things is a unit of measure or capacity !

And so thats why it is said in the day of Judgment, that He will open of the books , and everyone will be meted out punishment according to their works or violations committed against God's Law, that Christ did not die for. So likewise the Cup of Christ's suffering was meted out according to the exactness of the violations of each man of God's Elect, it was according to their sins 1 Cor 15:3

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

To go beyond this is human conjecture, guess work,assumption and not found in scripture !

beloved57
March 9th, 2012, 10:42 PM
Those who teach that Salvation is a result of their act of faith, have no real love for Christ for saving their soul, for if they had not themselves appropriated Salvation by their act of faith or freewill, then they would have remained lost, this kind of teaching produces self love, conceit, and vanity , Lovers of themselves 2 Tim 3:2

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

For the efficacy of the Saviour's Death was not in and of itself that saved them, but their appropriating act of the benefits was their Salvation !

beloved57
March 10th, 2012, 08:35 PM
Those who are teaching a false Gospel, deny that all for whom Christ died, that even before they believe, are Justified before God, evidenced by by His Resurrection Rom 4:25

25Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

Folks, this is a very serious sin against the accomplishment of Christ's Death on behalf of those He died for [1 Cor 15:3] before God the Father !

beloved57
March 14th, 2012, 04:56 AM
Those who are teaching that Christ death was for all men without exception, and many of them shall and have died in their sins, eternally separated from God, these are preaching a defective Cross of Christ. They are saying in essence, the Christ work failed to redeem from death those He died for, and that the Cross of Christ failed to reconcile them completely back to God ! This is a extremely serious claim against Christ's Work ! These false teachers say that Christ made only a one sided reconciliation [if that] that God was reconciled to man, but it left man unreconciled to God, unless man does something, but this is a grievous error, and not biblical at all. The Reconciliation that Christ effects by His Cross is in fact complete and full, nothing lacking. For reconciliation entails bringing together in harmony of Two separated parties. Its defined:

To become friendly with (someone) after estrangement or to re-establish friendly relations between (two or more people)

To make (two apparently conflicting things) compatible or consistent with each other

So therefore, if Christ's Cross Work did not both reconcile God to Men and Men to God in Fellowship, His Cross Work failed. Scripture teaches through Paul when writing to believers that Christ reconciled US to God by His Cross 2 Cor 5:18

And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us [The Church] to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Col 1:21

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

This scripture clearly ascribes conversion work to the Cross of Christ. Christ, by way of His Spirit, premised on His Cross Work, reconciles those who were enemies by nature, alienated from God experimentally, enemies in their minds, yet now has He reconciled. That is Faith and Repentance , those fruits that evidence one returning to God, are fruits of Christ's Death bringing back[reconciling] one into a right relationship and fellowship with God ! Nothing Illustrates this Blessed Truth more than the point made by the Lost Son that came to himself and returned to his Father Lk 15:17-32, yet the Father had been reconciled to the Son all the Time !

So, if every single sinner that Christ died for does not end up like the Lost Son, then Christ's Work on the Cross of reconciling those He died for back to God, has failed ! And many false teachers teach that, because of those who die in their sins, who simply were not objects of Christ's Love and Death !

beloved57
March 29th, 2012, 07:26 AM
Most in the religious world believe a false gospel, a very deceptive false gospel which is a derived from what is called Neonomianism !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonomianism

What basically is meant is the the Gospel is but a much milder law that men must adhere to in order of being saved or Justified before God; this is just as evil as teaching to be Justified by the Law Rom 3:20

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin !

The word deeds here is the same word ergon for work or works, and the word law nomos means:

anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command

a) of any law whatsoever

1) a law or rule producing a state approved of God

a) by the observance of which is approved of God

2) a precept or injunction

3) the rule of action prescribed by reason

Now how many really and sincerely believe that if they obey the command to believe on Jesus Christ that it produces them into a state of approval of God ? 99.99 % of professing Christianity believes this or that if they repent it brings them into this state of approval before God. In other words God now Judges them favorably because of what they did !

And the scripture says, by the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified before God. Flesh here merely means anyone born of the flesh as Jesus indicates here Jn 3:6

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Flesh is anyone who has not been born again of the Spirit. And so these neonomians, most deny New Birth before Faith, they are therefore advocating Justification before God by the deeds of the flesh ! To be honest with you, all who believe this are deceived and reject Salvation by Grace through Faith, not of works, lest any man should boast !

beloved57
April 4th, 2012, 08:10 AM
Rom 3:20

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

This proud man cannot accept, cannot believe ! What is Paul saying here ? This is not just the jewish law of moses, the Decalogue, the Ten Commandments, it includes all preceptives and conditions and proposals,or offers made to men ! Making terms , that men must do this or that in order of the obtaining of everlasting Life all fall under, doing the deeds of the law to obtain salvation, and all who preach this, which are millions, are servants of the devil !

Folks man in a fallen condition are incapable of fulfilling any commands of God, and Laws of God, obeying any precepts of God per Rom 8:7-8

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

And yet the antichrist ministers present a Gospel format that that gives men the impression they can obey a command of God and obtain Life Everlasting ! But alas, how many are there in religion today believe that while in the flesh, an unregenerate, that they pleased God by their act of Faith Heb 11:6

6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

These rebels believe and oppose the very Truth of Rom 8:8 and assert with all the venom of the devil, that they performed this pleasing act of Faith while in the flesh or unregenerate ! Nor being born again, folks nothing but a child of hell will make such claims ! Matt 23:15

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

They are asserting against all Light of scripture, that they are being justified by the deeds of the law in God's sight !

SeraphimsCherub
April 4th, 2012, 09:16 AM
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Free will is a lie straight from the pits of hell! For it would be to assume that a man could choose something "outside" of GOD'S BEING and WHAT GOD'S SOVEREIGNTY HAS ALREADY PROPOSED THAT WHICH "IS NOW",AND WHAT "SHALL BE"!
COULD RIGHT "NOW" BE ANY DIFFERENT THAN IT IS??

Christian_Nerd
April 4th, 2012, 09:30 AM
What if it is the Will of God that man have a Free Will.
God offers salvation and we are to accept or deny His offer.
We are not saving ourselves, for God is still the One saving us.
How is God given glory if He makes us turn to Him?
That would be like God programming a robot.
But if we choose to accept Him and follow Him then God is given Glory.

beloved57
April 4th, 2012, 09:32 AM
sc


Free will is a lie straight from the pits of hell!

Thats correct !

beloved57
April 4th, 2012, 09:39 AM
What if it is the Will of God that man have a Free Will.
God offers salvation and we are to accept or deny His offer.
We are not saving ourselves, for God is still the One saving us.
How is God given glory if He makes us turn to Him?
That would be like God programming a robot.
But if we choose to accept Him and follow Him then God is given Glory.


This is prime example of antichrist thinking ! Seeking the Glory of man. He wants to attribute salvation to what man does, which is expressed when he says:


and we are to accept or deny His offer.

So salvation depends upon his action. To Accept is a verb, an action verb, something the subject does !

Here is the definition of accept:

verb (used with object)
1.
to take or receive (something offered); receive with approval or favor: to accept a present; to accept a proposal.

2.
to agree or consent to; accede to: to accept a treaty; to accept an apology.

3.
to respond or answer affirmatively to: to accept an invitation.

4.
to undertake the responsibility, duties, honors, etc., of: to accept the office of president.

So he believes in salvation by works of man , something man does !

Christian_Nerd
April 4th, 2012, 10:01 AM
This is prime example of antichrist thinking ! Seeking the Glory of man. He wants to attribute salvation to what man does, which is expressed when he says:



So salvation depends upon his action. To Accept is a verb, an action verb, something the subject does !

Here is the definition of accept:

verb (used with object)
1.
to take or receive (something offered); receive with approval or favor: to accept a present; to accept a proposal.

2.
to agree or consent to; accede to: to accept a treaty; to accept an apology.

3.
to respond or answer affirmatively to: to accept an invitation.

4.
to undertake the responsibility, duties, honors, etc., of: to accept the office of president.

So he believes in salvation by works of man , something man does !

I did not say that salvation is a work of man. Christ paid the price so I could be saved. God offers this salvation to all, but only some accept it. This way it is not by man's power that we are saved but by Christ's sacrifice. God comes to us with the offer of salvation; we don't go to Him, for God reveals Himself to all men so that none are without excuse.
But if God gives some the ability to be saved and leaves the rest then those who die in their sins will have the excuse, "If we had the same chance to be saved we may have turn to You also." Calvinism makes God unjust and makes Him a hater of men. You never answer anyones questions; you won't even say that you're a Christians so, why should anyone listen to what you say? I am a Christian, and I am not afraid to say that to anyone.

beloved57
April 4th, 2012, 10:16 AM
cn


I did not say that salvation is a work of man

Indirectly you are saying that ! You say man must do something, perform a act, such as to accept something offered, did you not say that ?

Christian_Nerd
April 4th, 2012, 10:35 AM
cn



Indirectly you are saying that ! You say man must do something, perform a act, such as to accept something offered, did you not say that ?

We must accept His offer to be saved;but this does not make salvation a work of man. If man came to God and asked to be saved, God could Justly turn away all men and let them die in their sins, but since God is loving, He gave everyone a chance to be saved. Thus, it is God who saves us; we do not save ourselves.
The only Just things for God to do were to either give no one the offer of salvation or to give everyone the offer of salvation.

Grosnick Marowbe
April 4th, 2012, 10:49 AM
We must accept His offer to be saved;but this does not make salvation a work of man. If man came to God and asked to be saved, God could Justly turn away all men and let them die in their sins, but since God is loving, He gave everyone a chance to be saved. Thus, it is God who saves us; we do not save ourselves.
The only Just things for God to do were to either give no one the offer of salvation or to give everyone the offer of salvation.

.

beloved57
April 4th, 2012, 12:00 PM
cn


We must accept His offer to be saved

Thats works salvation, to accept is a performance of man. You teach and believe a antichrist doctrine !

beloved57
April 4th, 2012, 11:49 PM
Eph 2:8-9

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

You can tell the antichrist followers because they will blatantly oppose the scripture with highhandedness !

They in spite of the clear assertions of the Word of God, that Faith, along with being saved,is not of ourselves, but is the Gift of God, not of works [conditions] lest any man has reason to boast; And yet the antichrist followers say faith is of themselves, and because they exercise it, believe, they get saved, relegating Salvation by works , which was the very thing Paul was teaching against, its unbelievable, for they are very presumptuous ! Folks Faith cannot come from the flesh of man,because it pleases God, and scripture states this Rom 8:7-8

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

And yet they will oppose this clear declaration of scripture !

Christian_Nerd
April 5th, 2012, 08:17 AM
Eph 2:8-9

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

You can tell the antichrist followers because they will blatantly oppose the scripture with highhandedness !

They in spite of the clear assertions of the Word of God, that Faith, along with being saved,is not of ourselves, but is the Gift of God, not of works [conditions] lest any man has reason to boast; And yet the antichrist followers say faith is of themselves, and because they exercise it, believe, they get saved, relegating Salvation by works , which was the very thing Paul was teaching against, its unbelievable, for they are very presumptuous ! Folks Faith cannot come from the flesh of man,because it pleases God, and scripture states this Rom 8:7-8

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

And yet they will oppose this clear declaration of scripture !

No one should listen to anything you say. You won't even say that you are a Christian.
The verses you have given don't go against Free Will, by the way.

beloved57
April 5th, 2012, 08:33 AM
cn


No one should listen to anything you say.

You can't ! You do not have the ability to listen to spiritual truth. All what you read from me is going to make you more accountable in the day of Judgment !


You won't even say that you are a Christian.

What is a Christian ? You do not even know, you are not one ! So explain to me what you mean when you ask me am i a christian ? Explain in detail and I will give you a honest response !


The verses you have given don't go against Free Will, by the way.

You believe a man is saved by what he does ! To accept ! That is a works salvation, man being saved by what he does, no Christian would say that !

Christian_Nerd
April 5th, 2012, 08:38 AM
It is God who saves us; we do not save ourselves.
Our accepting Him is not the same thing as us saving ourselves.

beloved57
April 5th, 2012, 08:53 AM
It is God who saves us; we do not save ourselves.
Our accepting Him is not the same thing as us saving ourselves.

Yes it is. You are admitting that if you did not do something "accept" you would remain unsaved !

beloved57
April 5th, 2012, 10:33 AM
How False preachers pervert the scriptures is done most frequently in what is called the invitations to Salvation to all without exception. Some of the most common, we will show that these invites are actually efficacious calls of Grace, to most unworthy Elect sinners, and not to the spiritually dead in trespasses and sins ! Now remember, these invites are the words of God Speaking, the God Man, and they are spirit and they are Life Jn 6:63

63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Now ponder on this for a moment is Christ saying that His words are Spiritual ? He says they are spirit ! They are quickening and they give Life !

Now Jesus prefaced this statement with the fact of the Spirit must give Life or quicken, and the words He is speaking are both spirit and Life, but Life must first be given by the Spirit to receive His Spiritual and Living Words, This also confirms that the Gospel is thew Word of Life

Phil 2:16

16Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

And Peter states later this of Christ's words Jn 6:68

68Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

The words of Life, the Gospel, is spiritual, and cannot be received or comprehended by the natural man 1 Cor 2:14

14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Which Christ's Words are, for they are Spirit Jn 6:63 !

Now though the Gospel Call can be legitimately an Invite, it is none the less a Divine Command or Imperative, an invite founded upon a Divine Authoritative Command ! We will examine next Matt 11:28 to substantiate this claim Matt 11:28

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

beloved57
April 6th, 2012, 12:10 AM
Matt 11:28

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

First notice here, as previously stated that this what the antichrist ministers and followers call a offer invitation for all without exception, is really a command a imperative. The greek word for come here is a strong adverb deute and means:

come hither, come here, come

interjection, come!, come now!

And it is a imperative which means:


The imperative mood corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding. Thus, Jesus' phrase, "Repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mk.1:15) is not at all an "invitation," but an absolute command requiring full obedience on the part of all hearers.

This word come is the same word Jesus spoke when He called Peter and his brother Andrew Matt 4:18

18And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.

19And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.

20And they straightway left their nets, and followed him.

Vs 20 shows us the result of Jesus telling them to follow me or come !

Mark has the account reading like this Mark 1:17

17And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men.

So folks, this dispels of the false notion that the antichrist followers put upon this verse of scripture, its not a general invite , but a attracting, a bringing ! Remember when Jesus said of His Other Sheep, He said Jn 10:16

16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

That word bring is ago and means:

to move, impel: of forces and influences on the mind

Those in Matt 11:28 were being brought to believe in and follow after Christ, by His command of come unto me !

beloved57
April 6th, 2012, 08:25 AM
We have Looked at the popular phrase of the antichrist followers Matt 11:28 and have found thus far to the honest reader that Jesus here is not inviting all without exception, but is actually issuing out an imperative, a command ! Next, Jesus command is not to all without exception here, but to a definite group of people with specific characteristics notice Matt 11:28

28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

You see that ? Jesus specifically is speaking to those that are labouring and are heavy laden ! The word labour here in the greek is in the present tense, they were actually in a continual state of labouring , the labouring of the guilt of experimental sinfulness in their minds, and Jesus says that they are heavy laden, sin is a burden to them. It is a matter of concern of concern or care for them Ps 55:22

22 Cast thy burden upon the LORD, and he shall sustain thee: he shall never suffer the righteous to be moved.

1 Pet 5:7

7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

This should let us know that these in Matt 11:28 Jesus was speaking directly to are God's Spiritually born people convinced of their sinfulness and hopelessness. Folks for a man or a woman to come to that realization is a gift of God. It is a burden or Gift that God gives all His people to prepare them for the Gospel of Jesus Christ. In fact the word burden in Ps 55:22 is the hebrew word yĕhab and means:


burden, lot (that which is given)

This burden is given by lot to all whom Christ died for their sins ! Its called a gift . Its a great blessing from God when sin is our burden ! Thats why Jesus says Matt 5:3-4

3Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.


Thats why it is false teaching when false teachers say that God offers one salvation as a gift, but people refuse it because they did not want it. All that is foolish talk, all for whom Salvation is intended for, God makes them quite sensible of their need for it, and they desire it !

God through Christ will sustain His sin burden people all the days of their life. In Matt 11:28 the word heavy laden is in the perfect tense ! God;s People while on this Earth will always have sin as a burden, its been given, it aids God's people in keeping their eye on Christ's Imputed Righteousness, and dependent of God's Mercy and Grace. Have you notice that the epistles always begin or end with the writer wishing his readers Mercy and Grace ? Notice:

1 Tim 1:2


Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord. 2 Tim 1:2

To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

Why did Paul wish Mercy from God to Timothy a Child of Faith ?

Titus 1:4

To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Heb 4:16

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Were not these believers the writer was writing to ? Why would they have a need for mercy ?

2 Jn 1:3

Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

I made this point because, many are deceived into thinking that a believer does not sin after conversion. Folks Matt 11:28 contradicts that delusion, for the burden of sin in a True believer will remain with them all their days of this pilgrimage, while in the flesh !

Finally, the call in Matt 11:28 is directed to a specific character of people, it is Authoritative in that it also enables, to bring about the intended results, Rest !

If any teach otherwise, that it is a call to all without exception, they are liars !

beloved57
April 7th, 2012, 04:19 PM
Rom 3:20

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Why is it that apostate religion ignores the clear teaching of this verse ? They in spite of it's testimony, teach that one by the deeds of the flesh or the law can and do Justify themselves before God or in His sight. They do this most often when they say by their act of Faith or believing, while in a unregenerate state, yet dead in sin, they did something to cause God to be pleased and Justify them in His sight ! They reject the clear dictum of this verse, they defy it, and unless God grant them repentance from this evil,it will surely be their Eternal Ruin ! Anyone right now who believed they did anything that caused God to Justify them in His sight, you are a debtor to do the whole law of God perfectly before you will ever see heaven. That means you bet not say, think , do any evil, ever against God's Law !

Christian_Nerd
April 9th, 2012, 07:55 AM
We are justified through Christ and not by our own works. I have said nothing contrary to that.

beloved57
April 9th, 2012, 01:53 PM
The man of sin religions preaches a uncertain redemption that is made available to all men without exception, it proclaims that the decree's of God are mutable [liable or subject to change or alteration] depending on the will of God's creature's, that Christ's Suretyship is Uncertain, and that the Operation,s of The Spirit is often times rendered ineffective or frustrated by the mighty freewill of man, which all of this is Blasphemy, it is religious atheism, and it is very popular all over the world today, except for those whose names had been written in the Lambs book of Life from the foundation of the world Rev 13:8-9

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9If any man have an ear, let him hear.

beloved57
April 11th, 2012, 09:39 PM
In essence what the majority of antichrist followers believe as to being saved by Grace through Faith is this, that a person is either saved or Justified before God, as a reward for their act of Believing. ; for that my friends is salvation or Justification by works. This thinking rejects salvation or Justification by grace alone !

beloved57
April 12th, 2012, 10:01 AM
The first sin that brought sin into the world, it was against God's Law, a Law of prohibition, so it became an act of doing; That was the sin [doing], and that established the evil principle of doing. This evil principle is Now the evil principle that motivates fallen man Gen 11:1-4

1And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.

2And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.

3And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.

4And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.


This is why fallen depraved men must always rely on our performances. This evil principle is only overcome by the New Birth. This evil principle of doing, pride, and unbelief was instilled in the flesh of man by satan dealing with Eve, and that is why Adam followed suite, and He did eat also. Note: Eve from satan's behesting desired to be something more than what God created her to be, hence the installment of the evil principle of Justification by our performances or works ! Thats what cain brought to the Lord, his best efforts !

Now, Adam died at the time Eve his wife ate, because she was accountable only through His headship, the law prohibiting, being first given to Adam while she was yet in her head Adam !

Gen 2:15-17

15And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

[B]16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

beloved57
April 16th, 2012, 05:38 AM
Acts 15:11

But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

Rom11:5

Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


The remnant of jews, the election of grace, are saved no different than from the gentiles who are saved through grace, they too are of the election of the same grace !

Now those of us who reject the Truth of unconditional election, that God has chosen only a portion out of mankind for grace and glory, and hath purposely decreed from all eternity that the rest shall be hardened and damned in their sins for the Glory of His Justice, the Elect being the Election of Grace, let it be known here and now, we reject Salvation by Grace through Faith ! There is no way around it or any other way to put it, it cannot be watered down or rationalized away ! Now any of us rejecting the revealed will of God, in how He saves certain sinners, you have no other hope ! If one says this is hyper calvinism, that is fine, but you still have rejected salvation by grace, and therefore for all intents and purposes without hope !

beloved57
April 17th, 2012, 06:59 PM
In essence, what the majority of antichrist followers believe, as to being saved by grace through faith is this, that a person is either saved or justified before God, as a reward for their act of believing or act of faith; for that my friends is salvation or justification by works. This type of thinking rejects salvation or justification by grace alone !

SummaScriptura
April 19th, 2012, 12:11 PM
You certainly have some innovative ideas! Novel in fact.

ttruscott
April 19th, 2012, 04:40 PM
In essence, what the majority of antichrist followers believe, as to being saved by grace through faith is this, that a person is either saved or justified before God, as a reward for their act of believing or act of faith; for that my friends is salvation or justification by works. This type of thinking rejects salvation or justification by grace alone !

Not if grace brings you to the act of saving faith...

Peace, Ted

beloved57
April 20th, 2012, 05:18 AM
Not if grace brings you to the act of saving faith...

Peace, Ted

If you are disagreeing with my statement, you believe in salvation by works !

beloved57
May 8th, 2012, 05:41 AM
Anyone believing that man has a freewill, does not believe in the Sovereignty of God, and anyone that does not believe in the Sovereignty of God, does not believe in God, not the God of the Bible.

For scripture says Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

That He is Sovereign !

ttruscott
May 8th, 2012, 11:00 AM
Good morning beloeved57,

you may have noticed that I have supported every essay of yours I have read since joining here... I like the way you think; it is very similar to the way I have been led.

But in this I have a difference. You suggest
Isa 14:12-14
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

2 Thess 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

indicates that his will is the essence of his sin and therefore free will is the devil's method to entice us into sin. I contend that free will is of GOD but what Lucifer did with it was sin against all GOD's counsel and warnings.

GOD's attributes of sovereignty and HIS love must be perfectly aligned and evident together in all things, not 'one on, one off' periodically.

Many verses tell us GOD wants all men to be saved but we know some are not saved so we look for reconciliation since it seems to say GOD is not sovereign. Also scripture tells us that GOD's plan for our creation is so that we may love and be loved by HIM and to praise and worship HIM forever, which can only be achieved in truth by free will.

Maybe you have read my supposition that we had our time of free will in our pre-earth spiritual existence. Our choice was completely uncoerced by anything in our own creation or in the rest of creation forcing us to choose for GOD or against GOD by force of truth, even to the point where GOD cloaked HIS divine attributes so as to not over-power our decision making.

That is, all we understood of life was the possibilities before us of which we could choose the perfect life we hoped to have with the perfect relationship with a god we thought to be perfect for us, or no god or with the self proclaimed GOD Almighty, our supposed creator.

For a choice to be a true choice and not just a guess, we had to know all the possibilities and supposed consequences of each decision open before us, but all without proof as the truth about reality would coerce our choice.

Therefore we must have known, but without proof, the nature of the consequences of their choice. Such a choice, is described as making a choice based on faith.

Religious faith as apart from secular trust is defined:
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

substance = essence, the substantial quality, nature
hoped for = exactly that
evidence = conviction
not seen = not proven, not discovered by use, not known by experience

This tells us that to have faith is to be convinced of unproven things; thus implying that proof destroys faith one way or another.

Learning the full details of the (supposed, unproven) consequences of our decision made the choice a true choice and not just a guess, but also, knowing these (supposed, unproven) consequences gave us a framework from which we could choose,

which kind of life we wanted to have, which kind of life we hoped to have by making this choice:

1. a life with a GOD who was perfect and created us to join HIM in that perfection and in loving holy communion forever
or
2. a life in which we were just as important as the false god, better in fact because we were not liars about ourselves. A life in which we are our own GOD and our laws and our love is the epitomé of perfection. A life in which we bow to no one.
or
3. a life with any one else who claimed divinity, because we liked their definition of reality the best.

From the Christian pov, the vast majority of those who made the choice by faith, ie on hope without proof, chose to bow to GOD's plan for our creation, choosing to become loving spirits and elect members in His Church with their names written into the Book of Life,

but a few rejected the Three, calling Them liars and boasters and claimed they were the equal of the Three and so refused to bow, declaring that they too were worthy of worship and that the love they had already was as good as Godly love anytime. And thus from their deepest hopes for that kind of life, they became the eternal enemies of GOD, condemned to be damned.

This is perfectly described in Isa 14:12-14 and 2 Thess 2:4, the free will choice to reject GOD and HIS plan for us because it was their deepest desire to be worshipped as the most high themselves, choice 2.

[The problem with Lucifer's fall if he had no free will is that GOD made HIM to do what HE did, GOD created HIM that way and set HIS end in hell against HIS stated desire that no one be damned and all be saved.]

These decisions separated all creation into sheep or goats, elect and non-elect, and the elect were separated into the faithful elect and the fallen sinful elect who had to be redeemed by the blood of the Lamb of GOD.

But once every spirit created in HIS image had finalized their position, had put their faith in the hope for the perfect life they wanted to live,

GOD revealed HIMself in all HIS gory by the creation of the physical universe as HIS proof of divinity before all creation so the apostle Paul could write:
Rom 1:20
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that were made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

This of course ended our free will two ways: all creation now knew the truth of reality so they could never make a choice outside or against that truth, ie the truth of HIS divinity held sway over everyone from then on. As well, those of us who fell into sin became enslaved by the addicting qualities of sin, unable to please GOD or even to seek HIM.

But this does not imply we have no will at all like a robot or computer. It is a will of our own, a self will as Titus 1:6 wherever there is a man of blameless life, true to his one wife, having children who are themselves believers and are free from every reproach of profligacy or of stubborn self-will. It is an attenuated will circumscribed by our awareness of truth and by GOD's plan for us.

GOD promised us both the free gift of election if we chose HIS plan for our creation as our plan for our life and the gospel promise if we fell into sin pre-earth as Paul writes about: Eph 1:4-5 According as he hath chosen us [elected us] in him before the foundation of the world, [ie before the creation of the physical world], that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: and 1 Peter 1:20 He [Christ] was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. and in Colossians 1:23 ...if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven,

Therefore to fulfill HIS promise to us after we fell, HE created earth and human lives, for us to live on earth, (forgetting our pre-earth lives), to feel the suffering sin causes and the unrelenting evil of HIS enemies, the damned. Our lives HE planned to be perfectly suited to each one of us to bring us to redemption and sanctification by HIS will, not our own; by HIS grace, not our works, according to HIS promise.

Only true free will allows us to fulfill HIS plan for us to love, praise and worship HIM in truth and not like a robot and only true free will allows us to reconcile HIS desire to save all with the damnation of some. And only pre-earth theology reconciles the verses that define our lives a with and without free will. And so I accept it though it makes me the most foolish in the eyes of those who have spent their lives fighting to prove either the supremecy of HIS sovereignity or love..

Peace, Ted

beloved57
May 8th, 2012, 11:53 PM
The Man of sin followers do not believe in the True God, for they do not believe that God is absolutely Sovereign over all things, and especially over who is Saved by Him.

Anyone who believes that God desires to save all men without exception, because of their willful perversion of 1 Tim 2:4

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

I say willful because most in the religious circles have had explained to them that all does not always mean all without exception in scripture,

But in any case, the man of sin followers say that God desires the Salvation of all men without exception, but God's desire is not realized, for scripture clearly reveals all without exception shall not be saved !

For anyone to say that God's desire is not realized, is not done, they reject the Sovereignty of God, simple as that, for intents and purposes they are atheist ! There is no God if He is not Sovereign over all things especially Salvation !

Ps 115:3

3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

That word pleased is the hebrew word chaphets and means:


to delight in, take pleasure in, desire, be pleased with

Its translated desire 9 times in the OT !

And the word done is the greek word asah and means:


to do, fashion, accomplish, make

a) (Qal)

1) to do, work, make, produce

a) to do

b) to work

c) to deal (with)

d) to act, act with effect, effect

So whatever God desires, He effects by His Power !

So be it known to everyone one of us, who interpret 1 Tim 2:4 to mean that God desires the Salvation of every single individual in the world without exception, and yet does not actually effect it and realize it, you deny the Sovereign God of the scripture, you reject the God of Ps 115:3 and serve an idol of your imagination !

beloved57
May 15th, 2012, 12:49 PM
The man of sin gospel and preaching is a false gospel, which makes it appeal to the natural man and his creature abilities. It is a gospel with a man centered approach, and not a Christ centered one. It gives the sinner who is dead in sin, alienated from the life of God, at enmity with him by wicked works, it gives him a ability to do something to save himself from the penalty of his sins, in total disregard to God's Saving Purpose in Election, the saving work of Christ upon the cross, and the saving work of the Spirit in New Birth, because of and the fruit of the saving work of the cross ! It is a false Gospel not grounded in God's Electing Grace Rom 11:5-6; Eph 2:8-9 !

beloved57
May 15th, 2012, 05:17 PM
What the man of sin preachers and followers want us to believe, but they do lie, that man by nature, dead in sin, can perform a righteous act [Rom 3:10] mainly referring to believing, that merits them everlasting life. Yes they will deny that it is their merit, but they do lie, because in their antichrist thinking, God rewards them for something they did. Many of them point to Heb 11:6 for confirmation of this wicked thought process, where scripture says of Faith, that God is a rewarder [wage payer] of them that diligently seek Him [Rom 3:11], and without it, it is impossible to please Him ! Faith here that pleases God is the New Birth ! So in essence, the followers of the man of sin say God does reward them, pays them wages because of their act of in the flesh, that pleased God ! The man of sin religions totally disregards man's condition by nature, that man does not seek God ever, not the True God anyway Rom 3:11. Seek here and in Heb 11:6 is the same. If we really believe and understand Rom 3:11, we would know that the natural man does not have that faith, that diligently seeks after God, as described in Heb 11:6, so the one there must be a born again person who seeks Him in Spirit and in Truth !

The man of sin followers deny that, and teach that the natural man in the flesh, does rightly seek after God in Faith !

beloved57
May 17th, 2012, 12:25 AM
Isa 14:27

27 For the Lord of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?

Ps 33:10

11 The counsel of the Lord standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.

Even as God thinks [His Thoughts] so shall it come to pass, what He has purposed so shall it stand. Now in 1 Tim 2:4, the word will here means purpose :

It is the greek word thelō:


to will, have in mind, intend

a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose

b) to desire, to wish

c) to love

1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing

d) to take delight in, have pleasure

1 Tim 2:4

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Now the false religionists says that God, the Lord of Hosts, can purpose, be resolved, to intend, even determine for a man to be saved, but that man by his freewill can and does often times disannul it ! They say God's purpose for a man can be defeated and frustrated by mans freewill, this is some of the highest blasphemy that can come from a persons mouth about God, and shows a total lack of the Fear of God !

beloved57
May 17th, 2012, 11:43 AM
Isa 46:9-10

Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

The God of the Bible states, My Counsel shall stand ! What Counsel ? Eph 1:11

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

The Counsel of His Own Will, thats what Counsel !

Yes, even when men reject His Counsel [Lk 7:30], That is still the Counsel of His own Will standing !!

God's Own Counsel will stand regardless of man's idol freewill ! The God of the Bible states " I will do all my pleasure" This word pleasure means desire, purpose !

Now in light of this, how can it be the will or pleasure or desire of God, for all men without exception to be saved and come into the Knowledge of the Truth, and he not do it ? What prevents Him ? Is it the almighty freewill of man ? That is what false religionists would have us to believe ! They teach that God's counsel will not always stand !

beloved57
May 20th, 2012, 09:42 PM
The difference between True Religion that Honors Christ and His Atoning , Saving Death, and false religion that does not, but is antichrist of His Saving Death is this, the antichrist say Christ's Death becomes effectual by the sinners receiving of it, whereas True Believers say ones receiving is because Christ Death was effectual ! That Christ's Death produces the redemptive qualities of Faith and Repentance, for they are fruits of His Death ! The antichrist followers deny that Christ's death alone secures the Salvation of the sinner and relegates that act to the act of the sinner's appropriation. Those who hold such antichrist views should never be considered of the Household of Faith, but should be earnestly contended against !

beloved57
May 21st, 2012, 04:10 PM
Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

"after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise" !

Now many of those who handle the word of God deceitfully, have hijacked this this scripture and forced it to say , that after one believes the Gospel, he is then born again of the spirit; however that is not what it says, it says that they were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise after they believed. The sealing here is a work the spirit does after believing, and it has more to do with authenticating, or certifying a thing. I believe it is the Spirit's work begun of witnessing to our spirits that we are the sons of God Rom 8:16

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Its that inner testification of the Spirit that Paul refers to here 1 Tim 2:6

Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

He confirms the Testimony of the Gospel in them as per 1 Cor 1:6

Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

So upon believing the True Gospel, its confirmed in us by the Sealing Ministry of the Spirit ! This is a spiritual sealing also designating us as an Heir, a Child of Promise Rom 8:16-17

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

For remember, the Ephesians Believed or Trusted After they heard the Gospel of their Salvation, so it was already theirs or as Paul said yours, when they heard it Spiritually and is why they heard it Spiritually. So everyone believing on Christ through the Gospel, has the right to be called a Child of God, and Heir of God, and as a Heir received the seal of the covenant, circumcision, so does the Spiritual Child of the Covenant receive the seal of spiritual circumcision in the heart Rom 2:29

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

beloved57
May 21st, 2012, 06:41 PM
Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

The word heard here is the greek word akouō:


to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf

2) to hear

b) to attend to, consider what is or has been said

c) to understand, perceive the sense of what is said

3) to hear something

a) to perceive by the ear what is announced in one's presence

b) to get by hearing learn

c) a thing comes to one's ears, to find out, learn

d) to give ear to a teaching or a teacher

e) to comprehend, to understand

This is important, because we know those who are not born again cannot hear spiritually, by nature we are deaf to spiritual things.

Also by nature we do not comprehend spiritual Truth, nor understand !

Paul writes Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Also he writes in 1 Cor 2:14

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Now this is important because the word receive here is the greek word dechomai and means:

to receive favourably, give ear to, embrace, make one's own, approve, not to reject

The natural man cannot give ear to spiritual things as to embrace them or not to reject them !

Paul goes to write that neither can they know them ! This word know is the greek word ginōskō and does mean:


to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of

a) to understand

So the Natural man has no ability to hear the Gospel spiritually as in Eph 1:13.

So, if they did hear, as the verse plainly states they did, then we know that they had to be people who were not of nature and had to be already born again in order to Hear and Understand the Gospel, which is also confirmed by the teaching of Christ here Matt 13:23

But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

The good ground both hears the word and understands it ! Good Ground is a New Heart given in New Birth.

So this exposes the false teachers who teach that Eph 1:13 is teaching New Birth after believing, its impossible, simply because if they had not been already born again, they could not hear [spiritually] or Understand spiritually, the word of Truth. I challenge anyone to prove this conclusion wrong !

beloved57
May 22nd, 2012, 05:25 AM
Those who do hear spiritually the word of Truth are Christ's Sheep made spiritually alive, for it is promised they shall hear His voice, which the Gospel of Salvation is,m His Voice to them Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

They are His Spiritual seed, by birth of His Spirit, which are born Heirs of an Inheritance 1 Pet 1:3-5

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

And the sealing of the Holy Spirit, seals them Heirs as an Birth Right !

Their believing the word of Truth was because of the Sanctification of the Spirit as Paul states here 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

So those who spiritually heard the word of Truth in Eph 1:13, did so because of the Spirit's work of 2 Thess 2:13 !

Cross Reference
May 22nd, 2012, 05:32 AM
Good morning beloeved57,

you may have noticed that I have supported every essay of yours I have read since joining here... I like the way you think; it is very similar to the way I have been led.

Peace, Ted

Now that I know what the problem is, I will just pray for you.

jannie1967
May 22nd, 2012, 08:33 AM
Now that I know what the problem is, I will just pray for you.




To: BELOVED57

Paul is not Jesus , I hear a lot of misquotes and misinterpretations from Paul, what about Christ. What about what he wants and requires from a Christian.???



WHY is Jesus telling them "I never knew you"? If we look just a few verses prior to this, you'll have the answer. Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.. So what was the will of the Father if it wasn't just to prophecy and cast out devils?

A few verses prior it says Mat 7:19-20 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

This ties perfectly together with being cast out in verse 23. They did not bear fruit, as many 'mighty' men of God who think they do so much for the Lord, with their evangelizing, and building churches from their thick wallets, have not bore any fruit of the Spirit.

I've met a few of them, they can be vile people, and all the charities and mission trips won't mean much to God on their account. Is there more proof for this? Yes, John 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. It is and always has been Faith+Works neither one alone will do.

Church
Communion
Commandment keeping are part of Faith and love for Christ
this is his Teaching. The Lord Jesus demands for his true followers

Jannie

jannie1967
May 22nd, 2012, 08:36 AM
Matthew 26:26-28-- "And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."


Christ is telling us we must partake in communion in rememberance and also for the remission of our sins... Per Jesus


John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

If we dont follow his commandments, then we are cut off from God.

1 John 2:3-4 We do know that we know him, IF we keep His commandments. If you say you abide in Him you ought to WALK in the same manner as He walked.


3:24 And he that keepeth His commandments dwelleth in Him, and He in him. And hereby we know that He abideth in us, by the Spirit which He hath given us.


JESUS

beloved57
May 28th, 2012, 09:05 AM
For those of you who teach and believe that God is not willing that any should perish Per 2 Pet 3:9, and that He desires all men without exception to be saved and come into the Knowledge of the Truth Per 1 Tim 2:4; Then how do you explain that scripture that states, for this cause God shall send them a strong delusion that they may believe a Lie ! 2 Thes 2:11

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

And that they all might be damned vs 12

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

So why would God, who desires one to come to the knowledge of the Truth, then why now does He send them a strong delusion that they may believe a Lie ? For which is it, does He want them to be saved and come to a Knowledge of the Truth or does He want them to believe a Lie and be damned ?? Can God make up His Mind ? How does one know that when you tell a person that God desires them to be saved and come into the knowledge of the Truth, if that person is not one whom God has sent a strong delusion, that they may be damned ?

oatmeal
May 28th, 2012, 09:11 AM
This is why I believe this is True !

2 Thess 2:1-4

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Isa 14:13-14

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:


I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Man's own freewill by far is the most believed and popular religious conviction throughout the whole world. Rev 13:1;5-8

1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It's adherents are linked to all the various denominations, and sects, yes, even the non religious adhere to man's freewill.

So John writes Rev 13:16

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

That is all follow this deadly concept or philosophy of man's freewill !

B 57,

are you talking about freewill or stupidwill?

oatmeal

beloved57
June 8th, 2012, 08:20 AM
Heb 2:9

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

The false teachers of the man of sin religions have had a field day with their wilful ignorance and erversion of this text, Alleging that it teaches that Jesus Christ has by the Grace of God tasted death for all mankind without exception, and yet that is not what it says, but that He tasted death for[in behalf of] every or all . For the word man is not in the original, but granted we add the word man as did the translators, it still would read only that He tasted death in the behalf of every man, and not all mankind without exception, in the context it would be for every man He tasted death or died for. Simply put, He tasted death for everyone He died for or in the behalf of !

Now before I expose this vicious, Christ dishonoring perversion of scripture, let it be known that those who espouse this ungodly view, are saying therefore that Christ's tasting of Death in the behalf of those He died for, that His Death for them in and of itself did not save them, and for this reason such a view must be viewd as antichrist, meaning against Christ, its against His Saving Death, in and of itself. So when He said it is finished upon His death, that in and of itself did not save anyone, their salvation was not finished, their sins were not forever put away and forgiven, no not yet according to them , for they must still do something, instead of having something revealed to them as already done !

Now lets look at other ways how this perversion of scripture is error !

By the simple fact that the words every man are to mean every man of mankind without exception. Lets look at Luke 16:16

The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Now would every man here mean every single man of mankind without exception presseth into the Kingdom of God ? I think not !

beloved57
June 8th, 2012, 10:16 PM
Secondly,it is recorded in the same letter to the same people that Christ did bare the sin of many Heb 9:28

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Now the writer is speaking is speaking of the same exact death as in Heb 2:9, whereas here he is stating that Christ tasted or bare the sins of many or The Many ! Not all mankind without exception. This verse corresponds with the Prophet Isa 53:12

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

The Many was limited then as it is now in Heb 9:28, and so the all or every man of Heb 2:9mis limited!

beloved57
June 9th, 2012, 04:47 AM
Thirdly- If Heb 2:9 meant that Christ tasted or experienced death for or in behalf of every man without exception, then the consequences would be, that once and for all, all without exception have been sanctified by that Offering ! Heb 10:10

By the which will we [Whom He tasted Death for Heb 2:9] are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

For His Tasting Death and His Offering of His Body are one and the same !

The word sanctified here is in the perfect tense in the greek, the Perfect tense is described as such :

This tense is like the aorist in that it also sees the action as taking place in a point in time. The difference is that the perfect also emphasizes continuing results. It denotes completed action in the past with finished results in the present.

Everyone Christ died for In Purpose sets them apart for the service of God ! Yes, even though they are born as sinners as other men and women, yet they have in distinction from other men, already in God's Purpose been set apart for Good works that He hath before ordained that they should walk therein Eph 2:10.

Now, we know that scripture never teaches that all men without exception have been set apart for God's Holy Purpose. In fact, the scriptures speaks of them who set themselves apart , having not the Spirit Jude 1:19


These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

Those who teach that Heb 2:9 means that Christ died for everyone in the world without exception, are of those who have seperated themselves and have not the Spirit, because if they did have the Spirit, they would not teach error of that nature !

beloved57
June 9th, 2012, 02:06 PM
Fourthly,If Christ tasted death for everyman without exception, then quite frankly, every man without exception shall be saved by His Life, for this is true because scripture says those whom Christ died in behalf of, were, even while being enemies, reconciled to God, and how ? By the Death [tasting Death for them] of His Son Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The promise of shall be saved by His Life, is for them who have been reconciled by His Death. Now if we know all men without exception are not going to be saved by His Life, its a perversion of scripture to force Heb 2:9 to be all men without exception in mankind !

beloved57
June 11th, 2012, 04:44 PM
Fifthly, If He tasted death for every man without exception, then by that, He became the Captain of their Salvation in bringing them to Glory, because of His Suffering or Tasting of Death ! Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings

Now His Sufferings and Tasting of Death are the same things, and by it, He becomes the Captain of their Salvation, which Brings them to Glory !

The word bringing in vs 10 is the greek word agō and it means:


to lead, take with one

a) to lead by laying hold of, and this way to bring to the point of destination: of an animal

b) to lead by accompanying to (into) a place

c) to lead with one's self, attach to one's self as an attendant

d) to conduct, bring

e) to lead away, to a court of justice, magistrate, etc.

2) to lead,

a) to lead, guide, direct

b) to lead through, conduct to: to something

c) to move, impel: of forces and influences on the mind

Its a strong word , and its used here also 1 Thess 4:14

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

It denotes His determination Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Its the same also as His Gathering them Jn 11:50-52

50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

The word gather together is the same Greek word ago, just has the prefix sun which means with !

And how does He do this ? Vs 51 That He should die, or Taste Death ! And By that, He brings or gathers together all those He tasted death for, The Many Sons Heb 2:10

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

They were Sons because they were Chosen in Him, and He Represented in His Life and Death God's Son's Chosen in Him the Son !

Those who carelessly and flippantly teach Heb 2:9 as meaning all men without exception, have no excuse i the Day of Judgment fir their willful twisting of scripture to glorify the freewill of man !

beloved57
June 11th, 2012, 09:33 PM
Acts 7:51

51 “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

The proud, self exalting freewill believers, do think that this verse supports The God Hating views that man, by his powerful freewill doth resist the Holy Spirits work of New Birth or Regeneration, but the verse teaches no such abomination. Stephen here recognizes that he is preaching to those who are dead in sin, those who are void of any Life of God in them, for those he knows that have not been born again, like those Peter spoke to in Acts 2. Those who have been born again, they are provided with a circumcised heart and ears by the New Covenant Blessings through Christ's Blood. and that they were not True Jews according to God's Standard which is Rom 2:28-29

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Notice, Stephen calls them uncircumcised heart ! How does one become circumcised of heart ? It was a Promise that God gave to a certain seed ! Deut 30:6

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

So the resisting in the text is not a resistance of New Birth, but a resisting of the word of God, its truth as it is Preached, and reveals the enmity of the heart of the natural man against it, who opposes its sacred doctrines. New Birth takes place in the inward man, and man has no power to resist a New Birth, he is totally passive therein, and its like he had no power to resist his natural birth, which also is according to the purpose of God Ecclesiastes3:1-2, and man's will is not relevant in either case, but only God's Will James 1:18

18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.NIV

beloved57
June 12th, 2012, 08:18 PM
2 Pet 3:9

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Another scripture that the man of sin followers, those who wrest scripture to their own destruction, like to employ to teach the great lie, that God Loves all mankind without exception and desires them to come to Repentance so they won't perish. Now that this is not the proper sense is seen in the fact that Peter had just wrote in the same letter Chapter 2:12

12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

That there were false teachers, according to God's Purpose were made or born to be taken and to be destroyed ! 2 Pet 2:12, so why would God be patiently waiting them to Repent unto life ?

beloved57
June 13th, 2012, 07:34 AM
Secondly, Why would God be patiently waiting for all men without exception to repent, when many men are being reserved for Judgment 2 Pet 2:9

9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Reserve the unjust, those Christ did not die for, unto the day of judgment to be punished !

The book of Job speaks to this also Job 21:30

That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

beloved57
June 14th, 2012, 07:07 AM
Those who believe and teach that Christ's Blood does not save all for whom He shed it for, they deny the Truth of the Testimony of these Rev 5:9-10

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

None of these singing this New Song, would ever state that Christ's Blood failed to Redeem unto God everyone it was shed in behalf of, out of every kindred, tongue and people and nation !

And their witness would be and is a Testimony against all who Teach that Christ dishonoring doctrine !

beloved57
June 14th, 2012, 09:02 AM
John 12:32

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

If here, the conjunction ean, should be translated when or since I am going to be Lifted up, for the if should not denote a possibility but a certainty of Him being lifted up [On the Cross], for that had been determined by God Acts 2:23

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified[Lifted up] and slain:

Lk 22:22

And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!

Now what does Jesus mean by His utterance in Jn 12:32 ? Jesus is speaking of it's efficacious results, that is the results of His Death or having been lifted up, and the results are , that all for whom He was lifted up in the behalf of, it will cause them to come to Him in Faith ! Ps 65:4

Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

The word here approach means:

to come near, approach, enter into, draw near

a) (Qal) to approach, draw near

b) (Niphal) to be brought near

c) (Piel) to cause to approach, bring near, cause to draw near

d) (Hiphil) to bring near, bring, present

Yes it also means to bring, remember Jesus words Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

The word bring here is the greek word ago and means:

to move, impel: of forces and influences on the mind

Now back to Jesus words in Jn 12:32, the word draw, what does it mean ? Its the greek word helkō and means:


to draw, drag off

2) metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

You see the word impel here also, its a bringing by an inward power, that leads those that Christ was lifted up in behalf of , He is bringing them to Himself as stated He must do in Jn 10:16, which also says they which He must bring also shall hear His Voice ! Now, what is the Result of Hearing His Voice ? Rom 10:17

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Faith, that is the end result of Hearing the Word of God ! The word for word here is rhema and means:

that which is or has been uttered by the living voice, thing spoken, word

So the Word here is the Living Voice of their Shepherd heard through the preach Gospel to them , which produces Faith ! Thats why I said that the end results of Christ's being Lifted up for those He was lifted up in behalf of, was that they shall be brought to believe in Him by Faith ! Now those of us who deny this, we have serious problems, and we are attempting by our unbelief to make Jesus out of a Liar !

beloved57
June 14th, 2012, 11:59 PM
Jesus is saying, all for whom He dies He draws them to Himself and consequently they become His Followers. Lets understand something right now, the drawing Christ speaks of here and that of the Father Jn 6:44-45 is the New Birth. This drawing is not a mere external call to a choice or decision, but an inward impelling responding to the effectual call of the Gospel. This is that Newly Created Man, Begotten Again by the Resurrection of Christ from the dead 1 Pet 1:3, beginning his new life unto God. The drawing here is not the dragging of sinners dead in trespasses and sins, and at enmity with God, and being forced against their freewill, they kicking and screaming against it, but it is the willing submission of a person newly formed by His Power Ps 110:3

Thy people shall be[B] willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

They believe according to God's Power Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

They will be willing to follow Christ and serve Him because they are His Spiritual Seed Ps 22:30

A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

beloved57
June 15th, 2012, 07:10 AM
Thats who Christ's means when He says He will draw all to Him if He be lifted up, His Seed, from among the jews and gentiles. Also what He means here Jn 12:26

26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

Now who are those that serve Him ? Its His Seed Ps 22:30

30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

They because He was Lifted up, shall serve Him and Follow Him. The only ones who hate their lives in this world as Per Jn 12:25 are those who have been born again of incorruptible seed. The Natural Man cannot but Love his own life, over the life of God which he is alienated from, for yielding to the serpents temptation proved that and so the fall. For eve was captured by the three things that constitutes love of self and the world 1 Jn 2:15-17, which are

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

These things were present in eve at the time of her temptation see Gen 3:6- For she saw that the Tree was good for food [lust of the flesh], the Lust of the eyes [ The Tree was pleasent to the eyes], and the Pride of Life [desired to be wiser than what God made her], and all this proves that the Natural man even before the fall, that the Love of God was not in us ! But alas, the proud freewillers and God haters, do believe man has the freewill ability to do what God requires for discipleship Jn 12:25 and gain for themselves Eternal Life. These duped people in their devilish pride and conceit, claim to do what even a created Innocent and very good Adam and Eve could not do. If only they had been there with Adam and Eve in the beginning, they could have been to them a good example of how to deny themselves, how to hate their own lives and to serve God and to continue to follow Him ! But thanks be to God, those who are Created anew because of Christ being Lifted up, those men born out of incorrptible seed, shall serve Him and follow Him forever !

beloved57
June 16th, 2012, 06:37 PM
Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Salvation being a Gift is not due to the fact that God offers it to everyone, and then its up to them to accept or reject, for that is a lie from the pit of hell Rev 9:1-2, but its a Gift for Two Reasons, one is in the fact that God hath accepted the Offering of His Son as a satisfactory Offering, to pay the whole sin debt of those He was made a Surety in behalf of. So the Gift is in the fact that God the Father hath accepted at the hands of His Son, His Offering, His Blood in the place of Chosen guilty sinners, which again satisfies His Law and Justice. That the Gift of Eph 2:8 is of that sort is by the use of the word for Gift, it is the greek word dōron and means:


gift, present

a) gifts offered in expression of honour

1) of sacrifices and other gifts offered to God

2) of money cast into the treasury for the purposes of the temple and for the support of the poor

2) the offering of a gift or of gifts

Its the same word gift used here Matt 5:23

23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

See Matt 2:11 and Matt 23:19

And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

So the Gift of God in Eph 2:8 is the Gift of Christ's Offering to the Father in doing His Will Heb 10:7-10

In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This Offering of Christ of His Body, is the Gift offered unto God, the Gift of Himself as an sin Offering for the sins of God's People, and this Gift Offering is How the Church is saved by Grace through Faith, because of the Gift Offering of Christ to the Father's Law and Justice. It has not one thing to do with Salvation being an offer to men in order for them to accept or reject it ! The word offering in Heb 10:10 above is the greek word prosphora and means:


the act of offering, a bringing to

2) that which is offered, a gift, a present. In the NT a sacrifice, whether bloody or not: offering for sin, expiatory offering

Now that this Gift of God has satisfied completely His Law and Justice, what remains to be done to those Chosen sinners is to Have that Gift of God [Offering of Christ] revealed to them, it is to make known this Gracious Transaction to those who are the beneficiaries of it, for which purpose the Gospel is for, and it becomes the Gospel of their Salvation Eph 1:13. What the Gospel does is to communicate the good news of one's Salvation to them, so that they come to know of it and rejoice in it to the Praise of God's Grace ! Now those who are preaching Salvation as an gift, and do mean by it a offer to them that they ca neither accept or reject, they are simply preaching a false gospel, and the message is from satan,and Not God !

Strefanash
June 16th, 2012, 07:37 PM
to the OP:

so your worship, not coming from your own free will, even a freewill informed and corrected by the grace of God, for you do not allow such a thing, is only coerced?

you are only an embittered slave who hates the God you worship as the prayer and praise you have for Him is coerced on threat of eternal damnation?

If not then you have committed gross equivocal fallacy in the use of the term Free will

beloved57
June 16th, 2012, 09:42 PM
Secondly, Salvation is a Gift in that the benefits of it are given or bestowed upon the recipients [Sovereignly], and this is in New Birth. Since God hath accepted the Gift or Oblation of His Son in the behalf of His Elect, the real culprits, this being an act of God's Grace as well, they in turn shall be given a New Life that enables them to live unto God and for His Glory, this is The Gift of Eternal Life experientially, and this comes by New Birth. Yes to be given New Birth is the Gift of God James 1:17-18

17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

James uses Two different Greek words here for gift, but they are both similar. The first one is the word dosis and means

a giving

2) a gift

The Ideal here is not offering something to someone, but simply giving of a Gift ! Its bestowing a Gift !

The second word dōrēma and means:

a gift, bounty, benefaction

This Gift given is a benefaction of the The Lord Jesus Christ having given His Life as an gift Offering in behalf of others. The benefaction, which means:

an act of conferring a benefit; the doing of good; a good

to bestow upon as a gift, favor, honor

Notice that James stated that this Gift is from above !

The word from above is the same word used in John 3:3,7

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Jesus is telling him,He must be born from above or by that Gift from above !

For we should understand the Gift to be New Birth because in the next vs 18 He writes

Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

The word begat here means :

to bring forth

a) from the womb

b) give birth to

2) produce

The Gift of God is a New Birth, a New produce or bringing into existence !

beloved57
June 17th, 2012, 04:45 PM
The Gift of God ! cont


The New Birth is the Perfect Gift the Father of Lights gives to all for whom Christ died. He is called the Father of Lights alluding to Him as a Creator, the Creator of Lights such as Ps 74:16

The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun.

Ps 136:7-9

7 To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:

8 The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:

9 The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Gen 1:14-16

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

God made Lights according to His own Will, and So is the Gift of He giving those Christ died for New Birth James 1:17-18

17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

And as the Creating of the Great Lights were according to God's Mercy Ps 136:7

So likewise is the begetting us again 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

This being begotten again and the beget He us of James 1:18 are primarily the same,one follows the other !

The Gospel or the word of Truth brings forth that New Life, like a New Born being brought out of the womb at first birth. There was life preceding the birth of which Created the Life to be brought forth by the word of Truth.

Regeneration or New Birth is a Perfect Gift ! The word Perfect here is the same word used in 1 Cor 2:6

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among or at them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

Them that are Perfect are those whom Have Been given the Perfect Gift of Regeneration or New Birth, which capacitates them Hear and believe and embrace the word of truth, the Gospel of their Salvation !

beloved57
June 17th, 2012, 09:51 PM
The word pleasure here is the hebrew word chephets and means:


delight, pleasure

a) delight

b) desire, longing

c) the good pleasure See Eph 1:5,9 for good pleasure

d) that in which one takes delight

The word is translated over 10 times desire

So the desire or good pleasure of God shall prosper in His Hand !

The word prosper is the word tsalach and means:


Qal) to rush

2) to advance, prosper, make progress, succeed, be profitable

a) (Qal) to prosper

b) (Hiphil)

1) to make prosperous, bring to successful issue, cause to prosper

2) to show or experience prosperity, prosper

The word also means effected as here 2 Chron 7:11

11 Thus Solomon finished the house of the Lord, and the king's house: and all that came into Solomon's heart to make in the house of the Lord, and in his own house, he prosperously effected.

He shall successfully effect the desire of the LORD,by His Hand.

The word hand is the word yad and means:


hand

a) hand (of man)

b) strength, power (fig.)

Its the same word used in Job here Job 1:12

And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

Jesus because of His Work on the Cross for those God wanted to Save was given Power as Here Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Matt 28:18

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

The scripture says that the pleasure or desire of the LORD shall be effected by His Power, Speaking of Christ executing His Father's good pleasure.

This of course would be the pleasure of His God and Father, and what would be His Pleasure or Desire ?

1 Tim 2:3-4

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

The word will here is the greek word thelō and means:


to will, have in mind, intend

a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose

b) to desire, to wish

c) to love

1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing

d) to take delight in, have pleasure

His desire or wish is that all men be saved and to come into the knowledge of the Truth !

Now Christ's coming into the world, being sent by the Father was to come and to seek and to save that which was Lost Lk 19:10

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Would not that be those of 1 Tim 2:4 ? I am sure it is ! Now did not Christ say specifically that came here to do His Father's will ? John 6:38-40

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The word will here is the greek word thelēma and means:

what one wishes or has determined shall be done

a) of the purpose of God to bless mankind through Christ

b) of what God wishes to be done by us

1) commands, precepts

2) will, choice, inclination, desire, pleasure

So it is plainly seen from scripture what God's will or wish or desire is concerning His Son, and it is that all men be saved and come into the Knowledge of the Truth. Scripture says that through Christ, God's desire shall be effected, and be prosperous. Now if one soul perishes in their sins, and Christ did come by the command of His Father to seek and to save that which is Lost, and one do be Lost, then how did the Pleasure of the Lord prosper in His Hand ? Not one should be Lost Jn 6:39

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Meaning none should perish. Now if Christ does not effect this pleasure of the Lord, then He has failed, and Isa 53:10 is a false witness, for nothing short of 100 % of the Sheep shall be found Lk 15:4-5

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

I do believe the scripture, that Christ hath effected the Father's desire, and all whom the Father desires to be saved and come into the Knowledge of the Truth shall do Just that, By Christ's successful Death. The false religionists does not believe that, for they believe many whom God desires to be saved and come to the Knowledge of the Truth shall be Lost ! This thinking is against Christ, and makes Him to be a failure in that which He should have effected !

beloved57
June 19th, 2012, 08:03 PM
Many false teachers are deliberately ignorant of this matter Isa 53:6

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Of when God did lay all the iniquities of His Elect to the Charge of Christ ! They teach it as though God does not do it, not until one believes, however that is a serious mistake in judgment !

There is a different time element involved as to when God laid the sin of the elect upon Christ, and when one finds peace through believing of that fact. God's act of laying the sins of the elect is solely an act of God alone, however the act of believing belongs to the one believing. The believing is merely coming into the Knowledge of God's act done in the past, an act that only involved He and Christ their Surety ! Now the application of the blessing can be in the present or the future, but the act of God's Non imputation of the sins of the elect, is always a thing of the past, for Paul preached it so to the Corinthians 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Also this non imputation and the blessing of it was known by the OT Saints as Here Ps 32:1-2

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Paul preached an past act of God, whereby God instead of imputing or charging sin on the elect world, He made Christ sin [by an act of imputation] instead, also Christ was made unto a guilty sinner by imputation, and by that all the actual transgressions of God's elect world were laid to His Charge or account. Now the Truth of the matter is this, no one can be a True Believer that Christ died for their sins, unless their had been an aforetime Act of God, of imputing their sins to Christ in the past !

beloved57
June 25th, 2012, 06:57 AM
Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Those who insist that Faith in this passage is something they do or an condition they perform to become created in Christ Jesus unto good works, then they are arrogantly, and blasphemously stating that they had an active part in God's Work of Creation. They assisted God in Creating them, for this is the epotime of the wicked heart saying Isa 14:14

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

2 Thess 2:4

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

beloved57
June 30th, 2012, 05:48 PM
Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

A work is a thing done ! The word for works is ergon and means:

business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

Righteousness here means:

integrity, virtue, purity of life, rightness, correctness of thinking feeling, and acting

Things that we do which are right or correct, correctness of thinking.

The word done means:

to act rightly, do well

1) to carry out, to execute

b) to do a thing unto one

1) to do to one

That word is used with works in many places as here:

Matt 7:22

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

John 7:21

21 Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.

Believing in Christ is one of many works of Righteousness a man does, so if one says they are Justified before God because of their act of believing

The word believing, pisteuo means :

to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in

Thinking right or correct is a Righteousness according to the definition above for Righteousness from Tit 3:5

So those of you that insist you get saved or Justified before God based on your believing, you reject the fundamental teaching of Titus 3:5, and espouse a false teaching of Salvation by your works ! You see, being saved is not by works or acts of Righteousness which we have done !

beloved57
July 4th, 2012, 10:19 AM
He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second !

Heb 10:9

Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Many today are deluded into believing that there is a future time coming, the millennium they call it, when God restores and earthly jewish nation that brings back the OC system of worship, all this because they canalize OT Prophecies, especially in Ezk, but this is a most grave error, and only those whom Christ died for shall escape this deadly deception. The Truth of the matter is, since the oblation of Christ, there is no more need for such sacrifices and offerings, and His Offering has once and for all has done away with them, for God has now no pleasure in them, except for that temporal purpose that led up to Christ. In this regards look at Heb 7:18-19

18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Heb 9:6-10

6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

For the sake of space please read Heb 10:1-9 to clarify this point !

Now that Christ has come and offered up Himself under the New Covenant Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Its no more time to revert back to that which God has taken away, but now and ever since, God has been about establishing the Second, that is the New Covenant and its attending blessings to a specific People Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:6-12.

The word establish Heb 10:9 is the greek word histēmi and means:


to cause or make to stand, to place, put, set

to make firm, fix establish

Now for men to teach a reverting back, is very dishonoring to God and to Christ, the Mediator of the New Covenant. It would be insane for God to go back to a system that made nothing perfect. Also it would make no sense at all that such reverting would be commemorating of the Lord Jesus Christ and His offering, for he gave instruction for that here 1 Cor 11:23-26

23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

beloved57
July 5th, 2012, 08:49 AM
Self Righteousness , by nature we are all this, and except a New Birth from above, we will be deceived with this ! For the scripture says not in vain Jer 17:9

9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Notice what was said a few verses before ! Jer 17:5

Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.

This is freewillism to the T and Self Righteousness !

Self righteousness is the thought process of men whereby we think God saves us or blesses us with Eternal Blessings based upon who we are or our performances or us meeting certain conditions. It has to do with our achievement or who we are. This thinking believe it or not is the mark of the beast in the forehead which denotes the mind, where we think or the right hand denoting how we work or perform.

This is what it means Rev 13:16

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Folks, this mark is our own by nature self righteousness before God ! It is trusting in our own ability to perform some kind of conditions to make it right with God !

beloved57
July 5th, 2012, 10:34 PM
Many in apostate religion have corrupted the ordinance of water baptism from it's biblical usage. Water baptism has never been a condition for salvation, but it was a confession openly of what was believed to have already taken place !

It was the answer of a good conscience, following conversion and giving evidence of it ! 1 Pet 3:21

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

beloved57
July 6th, 2012, 08:08 AM
Gen 15:6

And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Rom 4:3

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

What was counted to Abraham for Righteousness ? The antichrist crowd have sorely abused this passage, and would have us believe that Paul is teaching here as well as Moses in the previous in Gen 15 that God counts one Righteous because of an act of believing ! You see, it cannot mean that because believing is an act of man, and God nowhere reckons man righteous because of an act of man, but only for the act of Christ. Paul writes that by the obedience of ONE, that being Christ, shall many be made Righteous Rom 5:19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Believing is man's obedience Gal 3:1

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? See Gal 5:7 also !

You see what I mean, if one is made righteous because of their believing or act of Faith, then that overturns the clear Truth of Rom 5:19 that the many are made righteous by the obedience of one, that being Jesus Christ !

So what was it that was accounted to Abraham as Righteousness ? First lets understand that it is first said that Abraham believed God ! This means God said something or revealed something to him in order for him to believe ! What was it that God revealed to him ?

God revealed to him a promise Rom 4:20-22

20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

Now what was the promise ? The first promise scripture gives that was made to Abraham and was continually developed was this one Gen 12:1-3

Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Now Paul reveals to us later in the NT that this promise was the Gospel preached unto Abraham Gal 3:8

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

The Gospel revealed to Abraham was that Christ , His Seed should die for his sins 1 Cor 15:1-3

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Now, Paul also wrote that in it [The Gospel] that the Righteousness of God is Revealed to Faith Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

This Righteousness of God is made to us because God made Christ to be sin for us, why ? 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Now how was Christ made sin for us ? Was it not by imputation ? How are we made the Righteousness of God ? By Imputation.

The word imputation is the same word for counted in Rom 4:3

So you see, the word impute or counted is used in regards of sin or righteousness, that is Our sins to Christ or His Righteousness to us is what is imputed or counted.

So what was imputed to Abraham for Righteousness in Rom 4:3 ? It was Christ Righteousness, the object of His Faith after it [Christ Righteousness] was revealed to him in the Gospel Gen 12:3; Gal 3:8; Rom 1:16-17

Christ's imputed Righteousness was counted to Abraham for Righteousness and that is what Abraham believed God About !

Now for those who hold that Abraham's Faith as in his act of believing in and of itself is his righteousness, you are guilty of preaching a false gospel, a gospel of works !

beloved57
July 6th, 2012, 09:12 AM
Christ is what God promised to perform and it was through Him and By Him the Abrahamic Seed was made Righteous. This is what Abraham believed and what was counted to him for Righteousness.

Rom 4:20-25

20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of that promise to be performed. Now this is seen here Lk 1:67-75


67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

He is the Righteousness and Holiness imputed to Abraham, the performance of the promise, that Abraham Believed God about !

That is what had been Imputed to him for Righteousness, Christ ! For Christ is the Righteousness of the believer, not their act of believing ! Jer 33:16

In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.

Faith imputed to him as Righteousness Rom 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

This means, instead of working or meeting conditions for Righteousness, Faith embraces the revealed Righteousness we have, by what Christ [the object of our Faith] accomplished, and His Righteousness is what was imputed, so we read Rom 4:6

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Works here meaning nothing we have done. It is the greek word ergon and means:

business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

Now believing is something done by the Mind or heart of a Man ! So it would be inconsistent with Paul's point if Abraham or us are Righteous because of our act of believing or Faith, thats works, and Righteousness is imputed without works says the scripture of truth ! Rom 4:6

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

beloved57
July 9th, 2012, 07:10 PM
If repentance and faith are conditions for man to perform in order to secure to one spiritual life, then man was not spiritually dead in sin and without the life of God as scripture declares he is by nature. Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

The word alienated is a strong word and means:

1) to alienate, estrange

2) to be shut out from one's fellowship and intimacy

belonging to another

2) foreign, strange, not of one's own family, alien, an enemy

And so man in this state could perform vital acts such as faith and repentance.

For all such acts must proceed from life. Also Jesus must have been mistaken when He said Jn 6:53

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

The point and truth is this, those vital living actions proceed from Life, a Living Faith which is opposed to a dead faith James 2:17, a Living hope and Godly repentance do proceed from from Life given in the New Birth which is a blessing of the Covenant ! 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Contrary to the Antichrist followers teaching, before man can perform anything pleasing to God, such as Faith Heb 11:6, he must have first received spiritual and resurrected life from the dead Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

beloved57
July 12th, 2012, 06:26 AM
We know that Free Gift of Justification is not a offer as the antichrist followers teaches, simply by understanding Paul's analogy in Rom 5:16

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

So then just as Judgment to condemnation came to all by one, in contrast to that the Free Gift unto Justification is to all by one. Now was the Judgment to condemnation an offer ? So then neither is the free gift of Justification, if both are not an offer then the analogy looses its force of comparison !

The Free Gift through Christ's Obedience offsets the judgment and condemnation of Adam's disobedience and further more it [Christ's obedience] eliminates all the actual transgressions of the whole election of Grace ! That is it goes far beyond offsetting that one act of disobedience of Adam !

Now those who are teaching that this free gift of Justification is merely made available to all or that is an offer to all without exception are teaching antichrist doctrines ! Because they are teaching against the accomplishment of Christ's Work to the sole Justification of those He died for !

beloved57
July 13th, 2012, 08:21 AM
Prov 10:24

The fear of the wicked, it shall come upon him: but the desire of the righteous shall be granted.


Now who is more Righteous than the Lord Jesus Christ ? 1 Jn 2:1

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

The man of sin followers place the desires of men and them being granted, moreso than the Righteous God and His Christ and their desires being granted and done. For God say they does desire many things to occur that does not come to pass, as in His desire that all men be saved and come into the knowledge of the Truth as Per 1 Tim 2:4, yet this desire will not be granted Him !

beloved57
July 13th, 2012, 09:34 PM
Scriptures that contradict man's idol freewill, that man acts independent of of God's Sovereignty !

The words of Jeremiah the Prophet Jer 10:23

23 O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

This scripture is against freewill of man most definitely !

The GWT O LORD, I know that the way humans act is not under their control. Humans do not direct their steps as they walk.

The DBT I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.


The wise man Solomon says Prov 16:9

9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.

In case you did not know, the word steps is another word for a man's will !

The word means course of life, the Lord directs a mans curse of Life. This denotes that God is in control of the thinking process that determines they choices we make to choose our course of life !

This Truth demolishes the God forsaken concept of man has a freewill, a accountable will yes, but a freewill no way !

ttruscott
July 14th, 2012, 05:20 PM
Scriptures that contradict man's idle freewill, that man acts independent of of God's Sovereignty !


Only on earth, only on earth, only on earth...

not in our pre-earthly existence. You know, the time before the foundation of the world when He knew Jeremiah?
Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

Christ repudiated many who claimed his name, "I never knew thee!" So I knew thee must mean I loved and accepted thee in a personal relationship.

As for Solomon, do you forget he said:
Ecclesiastes 12:7 - Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto GOD who gave it.

Job 1:21 - And Job said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb and naked shall I return thither.

Obviously Job was not going to re-enter his mother's womb, right? So then why is his death described as a return to his mother's womb? Why didn't he say, Naked was I born and naked shall I die?

1 Peter 2:25 - For ye were as sheep going astray: but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

This is written to believers about their new belief being a return to Christ - how can one return to where he has never been?

Peace, Ted

beloved57
July 14th, 2012, 05:33 PM
tt


Only on earth, only on earth, only on earth...

Thats in your religion !

ttruscott
July 14th, 2012, 08:28 PM
tt



Thats in your religion !

Cool, where do they return too in your religion?

Peace, Ted

beloved57
July 15th, 2012, 01:49 AM
Cool, where do they return too in your religion?

Peace, Ted

I am witnessing now of the Truth, just read my threads and posts !

beloved57
July 15th, 2012, 02:20 AM
David perceives that God is in control of man's will so He states Ps 33:10-11

10 The Lord bringeth the counsel of the heathen to nought: he maketh the devices of the people of none effect.

11 The counsel of the Lord standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.

That David knew of this experientially is seen by his prayer to God regarding the counsel of Ahithophel 2 Sam 15:31

31 And one told David, saying, Ahithophel is among the conspirators with Absalom. And David said, O Lord, I pray thee, turn the counsel of Ahithophel into foolishness.

This prayer shows that David believed that God controls the wills of men, and what they can or cannot bring to pass, He believed as all True Saints do, of God's Sovereignty over mens so called Freewill !

Davids prayer here also indicates that He believed in God's control over mens wills and hearts Ps 119:36

36 Incline my heart[or will] unto thy testimonies, and not to covetousness.

Such a request as here gives us to know that fearing God was something not natural for men and must come from God Ps 86:11

Teach me thy way, O LORD; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name.

David prays for a Covenant Blessing Jer 32:39

And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:

beloved57
July 23rd, 2012, 07:59 AM
Luke 17:10

10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

The Anti Christ followers are big on this doing a duty or obeying a command in order for God to save them, as though they did something to deserve it !

But look at the fate of the unprofitable servant that relies on his commandment keeping for salvation ! Matt 25:30

And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

But the Natural man is always going to have that mentality that salvation comes through them paying a debt of duty, and they neglect that Jesus Christ has paid that debt which God's Chosen People owed, but they will refuse to bow to that Revelation in the Gospel of God !

beloved57
July 23rd, 2012, 07:22 PM
1 Tim 1:15

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Many do not believe this verse even though they quote it often. What the religious world believes about this verse is that it should read:

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to make sinners savable; of whom I am chief.

However, Paul had it correct, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, and so sinners He must and will save, for He is God Man ! Lets look at a few more verses Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Believe it or not folks, the sinners He came to save and shall save here are the same people !

The same also here Lk 19:10

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

The same to save as in 1 Tim 1:15 . Now did He come to save all sinners without exception ? No He did not, for Matt 1:21 makes that pinpoint clear, however it is understood that the Father sent Him for this specific purpose,m to save sinners, that is the work the Father gave Him to do, not to attempt to do it, but to do it and finish it ! Jn 4:34

34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Jn 17:4

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Now either He finished the work the Father gave Him to do, which was to save sinners that were Lost, or He did not; Now if He did not save all sinners of whom the Father wanted to be saved and come into the Knowledge of the Truth as Per 1 Tim 2:4, after having finished His work, then Two things are amiss and defective of His Work #1. Christ lied when He said the words it is finished Jn 19:30

When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished or paid: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

#2. He failed to accomplish to accomplish the Fathers work which He gave Him to do; and hence scripture also lies when it states Christ was faithful to Him that appointed Him, or that the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His Hand Heb 3:2;Isa 53:10 !

But I am here to Proclaim Loud and Clear, that when Christ died, His Father was Glorified in that matter, for His Justice was satisfied, His Law was magnified, and all the chosen sinners of God were saved. Now were the men of God sent forth to Preach Repentance and the Remission of sins, and all who Repent and Believe the Gospel do but give evidence of Having been saved by Christ's Finished Work, that Work which He said It is Finished to ! Jn 19:30


30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Which work is this Lk 19:10

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

That word seek means to Labor, to Work to Endeavor !

beloved57
July 25th, 2012, 08:06 AM
Rom 4:20-22

20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

What is the it here which was imputed to him for righteousness ? This word imputed is the greek word logizomai and means:



to reckon, count, compute, calculate, count over

a) to take into account, to make an account of

1) metaph. to pass to one's account, to impute

2) a thing is reckoned as or to be something, i.e. as availing for or equivalent to something, as having the like force and weight

b) to number among, reckon with

c) to reckon or account

2) to reckon inward, count up or weigh the reasons, to deliberate

3) by reckoning up all the reasons, to gather or infer

a) to consider, take into account, weigh, meditate on

b) to suppose, deem, judge

c) to determine, purpose, decide

It was the object of Abraham's Faith, the Promise. What was Abraham promised ? Lk 1:67-73

67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

That Promise was Christ Our Righteousness ! 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Abraham looked for the promise mercy of Christ being his Righteousness and Sanctification or Holiness before God !

That is the it that was imputed to Abraham for Righteousness, the promised mercy.


Abraham like any other believer had the Righteousness of God revealed to him by the Gospel, for it is written Gal 3:8

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

And like it was in the day of Paul and forward the Gospel is according to Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein[The Gospel] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Christ's imputed Righteousness was revealed to Abraham in the Gospel Preached to him, and that is the it, that was imputed to him for Righteousness. For only Two things are ever referred to in scripture as imputed, that be sin and Righteousness, faith is not imputed, it is given !

Rom 4:3

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Again what is the it that was counted or imputed to him for Righteousness ? It was the Promise that was believed, that was his Righteousness. God unconditionally stated to him Gen 15:1

After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

Now Paul asked Rom 4:4

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

God did not announce to Abraham that He was his exceeding great reward because of anything Abraham did or believed, but it was an announcement of God's Grace unto him.

God first announced this great blessing to Abraham here Gen 12:1-3

Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

All this being revealed to Abraham was God's Sovereign promising, and what had already been settled in His Eternal Decrees, He was now only beginning to reveal to Abraham his interest in these Eternal settlements !

beloved57
July 26th, 2012, 07:37 AM
So what it is, it is that Faith merely discerns that which God hath imputed of Christ Righteousness 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Faith embraces this imputed Righteousness of God that is revealed to Faith from Faith by the Gospel Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The Righteousness of God is not offered or made available to faith, but it is revealed ! The word revealed is the greek word apokalyptō:


to uncover, lay open what has been veiled or covered up

a) disclose, make bare

2) to make known, make manifest, disclose what before was unknown

It the Gospel, makes known or discovers to Faith that Righteousness of God that has been charged to your account because Christ was made sin for you as an Individual and because of that you have been made the Righteousness of God in Him. The disclosing of it is not the cause of it !

The fact that the Righteousness is revealed from to faith lets us know for sure that faith is not the Righteousness itself !

beloved57
July 27th, 2012, 07:00 AM
Rom 4:11

And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also

The whole seed Elect believes in time because Righteousness has been imputed to them also !

All down through the end of the age ! And so wherever the Righteousness of God has been imputed [2 Cor 5:21], the Spirit of God shall be given to effect Faith that it will be realized, even down to the end of the age. Now understand, the Righteousness has always been Imputed, just as their sins had always been imputed to Christ, but not the Grace of the Spirit that reveals it to them in their Lifetime according to God's Time and Purpose for them !

beloved57
July 31st, 2012, 06:14 AM
The man of sin religionists have hijacked the Gift of Faith that is given in Holy Spirit wrought conversion, and have made it instead, the one good work man can do to get himself saved ! This is flat out denial of Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Also Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

However this their vile act will so be exposed at Judgment Day, which is rapidly approaching !

beloved57
August 2nd, 2012, 06:12 AM
Many today in organized religion teach the false doctrine that ones faith or act of believing is that which God accepts from us a condition for them to Justify us, however this is a lie, even a damnable heresy, for this makes Christ less successful in this matter than our act of faith, something we do, and is giving honor to our act over and above Jesus Christ, and so it actually dishonors Him. They do not altogether eliminate Christ, but the saving honor goes to our act of believing and not to Christ. These deceivers will say that we are Justified by Faith, and that is True, and it is also True that Christ is called Faith Gal 3:23

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

And so we are Justified by Christ as Promised Isa 53:11

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

And He is the object of our Faith, His Blood Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Its the Blood of Christ or the Grace of God that actually Justifies one before God, not their act of believing; for if one is Justified before God by our act of Faith or believing, then we are saying that God Justified us because of what is in us, what was in our heart ! Rom 10:9

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Thats Salvation by our Works, our Righteousness, which is unscriptural !

Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

beloved57
August 6th, 2012, 10:34 AM
God has already began His Punishment of the non elect world of the antichrist, man of sin followers and worshippers ! That is by sending them strong delusions that they believe a lie or even lies ! All lies are the lie, because fostered by the Father of them.

2 Thess 2:7-11

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Jn 8:44

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

And so it is quite becoming, that his children believe his lies, that is what manifests them 1 Jn 3:10

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness[Believe the Truth] is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Now one of those strong delusions of those under the power of sin and the Antichrist as described in 2 Thess 2:11, is that man has a freewill in this matter of salvation !

beloved57
August 6th, 2012, 01:58 PM
Now one of those strong delusions of those under the power of sin and the Antichrist as described in 2 Thess 2:11, is that man has a freewill in this matter of salvation !

Now even more to the point, that man can freely believe on Jesus Christ, whenever he chooses, and by doing so, gains to himself, eternal life or eternal salvation as in Heb 5:9

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

But all superstitious none sense denies man's spiritual dead state by nature ! Yes, man has a natural will and a reasonable soul by nature, but nevertheless, we are still alienated from the life of God as per Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

This applies to all men by nature, jew and gentile. Though man by nature has many carnal abilities with his will and mental faculties, he has none spiritually, we cannot do one spiritual act, because there is no spiritual life in us as here Jn 6:53

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Without which we can not even think a spiritual thought that is pleasing to God, we cannot even pray a spiritual prayer, that is not an abomination before God Prov 15:8

The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.


Man's freewill ability is limited to what he is by nature, a sinners will, much like that of a lion's will, is limited to what he is by nature as an lion, so his will cannot be that of a Dove ! Man, his will is limited to that of a sinner dead in sin and alienated from God, and cannot be as the will of a Person who is born again of an incorruptible seed !

The false teachers of today tell us man has the ability above that of his degenerate nature, and that he can perform spiritual acts of life activity, and that he can spiritually come to Christ and spiritually see Him and Spiritually believe on Him unto Salvation, in direct contradiction of Jn 6:44. The reason why he cannot come is because by nature he is dead, because coming denotes life, motion , progress ! A motion as in a Living Body. By nature mans will is at enmity to God, and therefore cannot be subject to the law of God. This is important because the coming of Jn 6:44 denotes a submission in coming ! And the coming is the response of a command to come, like this here Matt 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Any command whatsoever, such as come or to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and though shalt be saved Acts 16:31

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

That word believe in the original is an command or an imperative ! Now scripture says that the man of the flesh cannot be subject to the law or Command of God Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Now before New Birth we are all in the flesh !

beloved57
August 6th, 2012, 04:23 PM
The Apostle Paul was giving a spiritual command to the Jailor to Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, of which if the Jailor was but an Natural Man in the Flesh, not yet born again, he could not have obeyed such an command, because he would have still been at enmity with the Word of God, that Paul had just spoke to him before he could believe as per Acts 16:32

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

This word spake is also translated preach in the NT Acts 16:6

6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,

Now, the Word of God must be understood to a degree in order to receive it, embrace it, believe it Matt 13:23,19

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

For it was the word of the Kingdom vs 19 which word Paul Preached Acts 20:25

25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

Now for the Jailor to obey and embrace the word of the Kingdom or the Word of God, he could not have had only a natural mind at enmity with God, or he could not have believed and been saved, its impossible, however the Antichrist followers say that the natural man has the spiritual ability and will by nature to believe to the saving of the soul, but they do lie, and they only by such lies, give evidence of being under strong delusion to believe such a lie !

beloved57
August 6th, 2012, 08:47 PM
Rev 13:8

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It is written, all shall worship him, the beast ! Only those whose names are written in the book of life of the Lamb will not worship and follow this deceptive beast, for it is none other than the false prophets and preachers with false gospels, so close to the real, that if it were possible they would deceive the very elect, those whose names are written in the book of life !

Matt 24:23-24

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Now this worship of this beast by the whole world, by all that dwell upon the earth comes by reason that all men by nature are freewillers, and conditionalist, and so man by nature cannot help but to cleave to some kind of form of conditional salvation; That it is something man must do, or think, some sorta duty that he must perform before getting saved, and it does not matter what religion it is, from hinduism, Islam, Buddhism to protestant reform, arminianism to calvinism, all set forth some condition, and only God's Elect will escape, for their Salvation was not based upon any condition or act they did perform, but purely as it was a matter revealed to them by the Gospel; But it is that conditionalism is a built in principle operating in all men all over by nature !

beloved57
August 8th, 2012, 05:54 AM
Lk 24:47

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

The Antichrist crowd as with faith to believe in Christ, so also with repentance [to turn to God] they teach it as a condition that man must fulfill [ a work] and so we make ourselves worthy for salvation, but this is but another cheat upon Christ and His Finished Work, who as the Exalted Saviour of His People, He gives or bestows Repentance upon His Redeemed People Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel[His Elect or Sheep], and forgiveness of sins.

For Repentance does not originate in men, at least not that which is joined with remission of sins. That any man repents toward God as per Acts 20:21

21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

It is because of the Sovereign Grace and Spirit of God, working within us for us to will and do of God's good pleasure Phil 2:13

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Now what is said in Acts 5:31 is also what was stated in Acts 3:26

26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

That is what giving repentance does, it turns us from our sins, that is the blessing of Gen 12:3

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Thats the Blessing, being given repentance or being turned away from our iniquities. Notice how both repentance or being turned from ones sins are both premised on Christ's resurrection and Exaltation Acts 3:26 & Acts 5:31.

Christ is no man's Saviour, that does not Repent Towards God, and believes in Him as Saviour and Lord, because these are fruits of His Death having been for them !

beloved57
August 9th, 2012, 07:05 AM
What is Savation by works or by keeping of Law ?



It is very very rare that one is found to truly believe in Salvation by Grace apart from works or commandment keeping which is Law. Let me make it plain and simple for you, Salvation is by works or by law keeping whenever in our thinking, that the affairs of Salvation are governed by that work or law principle, ingrained in each of us by nature " This do and thou shalt live", Yes it is the do and live principle Lk 10:27 (http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Lk%2010.27),28 (http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Lk%2010.28)

27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Deut 4:1 (http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Deut%204.1)

Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.

Yes even if it is obeying the Law or Command to Repent Acts 17:30 (http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Acts%2017.30) or to believe Acts 16:30-31 (http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Acts%2016.30-31)

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Or water baptism Acts 2:38 (http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Acts%202.38)

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:48 (http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Acts%2010.48)

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Now if that is one's thinking, that by obeying any command of this nature, is the basis , the prerequisite for one to get saved, then you are saved by works of the law or works of law, this thinking proves that one is still married to the Law, it does not matter their profession to be of Christ, this type thinking betrays that confession, and such a one is a debtor to do the whole law to Live ! Christ profits you nothing !

beloved57
August 12th, 2012, 05:19 PM
Jn 6:29

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.


Folks the end result in God giving His Son for those He saves from their sins, is their believing in Him whom He sent to do that, to save them from their Sins !

That is God would not have His Son die for nought, but that all those He died for would come to Faith in Him that died for them, and that is the Work of God. Faith to believe in Christ as He is set forth in the Gospel, is worked in one by God Himself [The Holy Spirit of God], the Operation of His Power Eph 1:19 and Col 2:12, So it is the Faith of the New Creation or Creature that performs the act of Believing, its done by the Workmanship of God the Spirit Eph 2:10 ! So it is, that whosoever is believing in Him [Christ] by the Power of the Holy Spirit, shall have Everlasting Life, for they did not earn it because of an performed condition, but they were in possession of it when they began to believe ! Jn 6:47

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. In other words, [B]The believing on Him is evidence of that one being in possession of Everlasting Life by the Spirit dwelling in him !

freelight
August 12th, 2012, 07:57 PM
Freewill is a doctrine of the devil, not taught in scripture, no matter how you try to spin it !

I recommend a 'different spin' definitely, for the one you're on is getting a bit 'dizzy' :)

First of all,....freedom of choice is a natural grant of intelligence, a provision of 'God' himself, giving all sentient beings a certain liberty within any given space or context to choose among multiple options. The scriptures and many other inspired writings, besides common sense and experience reveals such to be true, which makes people truly 'responsible' for their choices and actions. An intelligent Being would not encourage other sentient beings to 'choose' if they hadnt the ability to do so, so some freedom is granted within any given paramater. - such is the grounds of a truly coopertive, mutually engaging relationship which a 'covenant' is built on. One could go on.......

It might be easier to let go of all the passage-quoting (which tends to complicate matters), and take a spiritual chill pill,....some Zen might do you good ;) really.....take a breather.


:cool:


pj

beloved57
August 16th, 2012, 08:06 AM
James 2:19

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

That believing in Christ is a work, a doing well, can be seen here by this scripture, even though this is about believing in the existence of God, it nevertheless presents to us the principal of doing, which is a work.

The word for doest here is the greek word poieō and means:


to make

a) with the names of things made, to produce, construct, form, fashion, etc.

b) to be the authors of, the cause

c) to make ready, to prepare

d) to produce, bear, shoot forth

e) to acquire, to provide a thing for one's self

f) to make a thing out of something

g) to (make i.e.) render one anything

1) to (make i.e.) constitute or appoint one anything, to appoint or ordain one that

2) to (make i.e.) declare one anything

h) to put one forth, to lead him out

i) to make one do something

1) cause one to

j) to be the authors of a thing (to cause, bring about)

2) to do

a) to act rightly, do well

1) to carry out, to execute

b) to do a thing unto one

1) to do to one

c) with designation of time: to pass, spend

d) to celebrate, keep

1) to make ready, and so at the same time to institute, the celebration of the passover

e) to perform: to a promise


The word is used for work or joined to works several times as per here:

Matt 7:22

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?[/B]


Matt 23:3

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after [B]their works: for they say, and do not.

Jn 7:3

3 His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest.

So it is, those who believe and teach that salvation is contingent upon ones believing, in God or in Christ, or in the Gospel then that one believes and promotes a salvation by works, by doing well !

James 2:19

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

If we recall, this very similar statement was made to one cain here Gen 4:7

If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

If we base our Salvation and acceptance with God upon our doing well, then are hopes are built upon the sandy grounds of a works salvation, and unless God delivers us, we are bound to hear these words Matt 7:22-23

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

beloved57
August 16th, 2012, 09:39 PM
1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

The end of Christ's Death or the bearing of our sins on the Tree, not for everyone, but for God's Elect 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

The end design was that we should Live unto Righteousness, that is a Life converted to God or to live by Faith, if this end was not obtained, in this life, for each and everyone Christ bare their sins, then His Death was failure to the Purpose of God, but if it was not a failure, which I do testify it was not, then all whom die in their sins unconverted and consequently all who meet with Eternal Damnation Matt 25:41; Matt 7:23, then He did not bare their sins in His Body on the Tree !

Christ's Death is a Saving Death, a Converting Death ! To deny this is Antichrist !

beloved57
August 17th, 2012, 02:45 PM
Acts 13 :48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

What is meant by this sacred passage of scripture ? For certain it stands for God's Predestination and Individual Election of men to Salvation in Jesus Christ, and its indicative of only individual persons and that not all without exception, so it is phrased " as many as" and by this eternal decree grace was secured for them to believe by grace Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace: Or believed because of Grace. Grace must receive the credit for anyone believing the True Gospel !

beloved57
August 18th, 2012, 08:14 PM
The False faith today of multitudes of deceived souls is this, they profess faith in Christ, but not that which sees Christ as accomplishing Salvation and having it bestowed upon the Elect of God, but that He did die for sin, and then gives every man a chance , a opportunity to get saved, by their acceptable acts of faith and or repentance, acts of theirs which secure unto them Eternal Salvation, that is what passes for the Faith of God's Elect today. This is a false gospel !

beloved57
August 19th, 2012, 04:23 PM
There are those who utter terrible blasphemies against the Death of Christ, and what it alone accomplished, apart from the subsequent work of the Spirit; Even though the Spirit should later confirm the saving Death of Christ to all for whom Christ died. Now by His death alone, apart from the Spirits applicatory Work, Christ hath reconciled all for whom He died to God, even while they themselves are enemies to God, by nature Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now to deny this reconciliation or to darken its counsel in any way, is antichrist ! To say that Christ's Death is Worthless apart from the Work of the Spirit is antichrist !

beloved57
August 19th, 2012, 05:20 PM
Christ by His Death alone, apart from any subsequent work of the Spirit, hath purged our sins Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

This entails the taking away of our sins [If he died for us], their full expiation once and for all ! This Work was in striking contrast to the levitical priesthood which stood daily Heb 10:11-12

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; Heb 1:3

Because the offerings of their priesthood could not take away sins, as Christ offering of Himself did Jn 1:29 ; Heb 1:3 and this He accomplished through Death, with no subsequent Work of the Spirit, and therefore, anyone saying that Christ's Death in and of itself and or without the subsequent Work of the Spirit is worthless, is a liar and antichrist !

beloved57
August 19th, 2012, 06:43 PM
To Blaspheme and say arrogantly that Christ's death in and of itself is worthless, is saying that God's Law and Justice has not been met with saving satisfaction for the sins of those that Christ hath died for, not until the Holy Spirit does a work in those that Christ hath died for, making it so that it was not only Christ's Death that was needed to satisfy God's Law and Justice, but in addition the Spirit's applicatory work assisted in paying for sin ! This is utterly false and Blasphemous and contrary to Christ's very statement concerning the work of the Spirit here Jn 16:13-14

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

The Spirit does nothing but take what is Christ's [His Saving Meritorious Death] and shews it to the Members of His Body, He declares it to them, but to say that Christ's Death is worthless without this work of the Spirit, that is an horrible blasphemy that none but a child of the devil could utter in such confidence and arrogance !

beloved57
August 20th, 2012, 01:36 AM
By His Death Alone apart from any other subsequent work of the Spirit, Christ hath obtained Eternal Redemption for us, the us being all for whom He died Heb 9:12

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption or eternal life for us.

This eternal redemption is nothing but eternal life in essence, and yet their be those under the guise of being preachers of righteousness, who tell us, that Christ's death in and of itself, and apart from the Workings of The Spirit is Worthless, what Blasphemy !

beloved57
August 20th, 2012, 04:57 AM
Christ's Death is that which obtained for all whom He died, their New Birth. For New Birth is by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, which Resurrection confirms the success and value of His Death for those He died for ! 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

NIV 1984 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

NLT 2007 All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is by his great mercy that we have been born again, because God raised Jesus Christ from the dead. Now we live with great expectation,

ESV 2001 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

And Christ's Resurrection was only possible because of His Death !

Yet there be those of the wicked that tell us that Christ's Death in and of itself does not save anyone, and that apart from the Spirit it is worthless ! Such Blasphemy shall be given account for in the Day of Judgment !

beloved57
August 20th, 2012, 12:34 PM
Heb 9:12

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

That Eternal Redemption that Christ obtained for us, in the original its middle voice and would mean He obtained for Himself as Well, signifying that He and those He died for are all of One, and so they are His Possessions unto Himself in Eternal Redemption, namely His body the Church. This Eternal Redemption must be imparted to them, it must be shewed them [experientially] because it is theirs, and so the good news of it is sent to each of them by means of the Gospel of their Salvation or Redemption Eph 1:13-14

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation or Redemption: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Now it is this the Gospel of their Redemption because Christ hath obtained it for them, and upon being given ears to hear it [The Good News] they are thereby sealed unto the day of Redemption Eph 4:30, The Eternal Redemption Christ hath obtained, ensures and effects the Redemption of our bodies Rom 8:23, which whether we sleep or awake, at His Coming ! Paul also refers to this Redemption of the Body here Phil 3:21

21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Taliesyn
August 20th, 2012, 02:37 PM
Sorry beloved57 but I'm compelled by God (according to your own doctrine) to rain on your parade :rain:

If there is no free will there is no sin either.

Extremist Calvinists teach free grace, free salvation ... AND free wrath, free damnation.

To say there is no free will is equal to saying there is no such thing as human moral nature.
Morality can ONLY apply to those possessing volition, choice.

No free will means the author of this thread did not write it himself freely but was constrained to do so.
It thus also implies that no one else responding does so of their own free will but by "fate" or the "will of God", and that no matter what they say.

Thus how can anyone, at any time, accept the author's point of view? They cannot and reason, logic, scripture have nothing to do with any discussion ever, anywhere. All is "God's will" and nothing else, ever.

The doctrine of no free will is thus a pernicious doctrine of demons for it relieves men from any guilt whatsoever as there can be no guilt without self-determination.

The bible recognizes this everywhere. God ordains human governments and human courts of law based on the FACT of free will.

The Calvinist anti-free will doctrine is utterly foolish, illogical and contra scripture. Those preaching it always contradict themselves by the very preaching of it!

The best refutation of this extremist and unbalanced type of Calvinism was given centuries ago by John Fletcher in his "Checks to Antinomianism" -available online at archive dot org - check it out.

Beloved57 & others interested by the truth, you really need to read it before giving more of such unbiblical, unreasonable, salient falsehoods.

:)

Robert Pate
August 20th, 2012, 03:29 PM
This is why I believe this is True !

2 Thess 2:1-4

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Isa 14:13-14

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:


I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Man's own freewill by far is the most believed and popular religious conviction throughout the whole world. Rev 13:1;5-8

1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It's adherents are linked to all the various denominations, and sects, yes, even the non religious adhere to man's freewill.

So John writes Rev 13:16

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

That is all follow this deadly concept or philosophy of man's freewill !

I have been avoiding this thread because I hate to admit that anyone can be so far gone as to write something like this. B57 has been to heresy school and has graduated at the head of his class.

rwe2156
August 20th, 2012, 04:24 PM
Calvinism = no free will = NOT TRUE

if you check that you find the reformed view is mans will is depraved, deranged, and derailed.

His nature is corrupted and his will is in bondage to sin.

Only by being regenerated can man choose Christ, and he does so freely, not by coercion, because he WANTS to, in fact, he is compelled by a grace unknown -- an grace that is irresistible.

Only a Calvinist warped by hyper C thinking and determinism will deny free will.

The problem is post modern man simply cannot come to grips with the idea he is not in charge. He worships a God he doesn't know, a God who is sovereign.

A God whose sovereignty knows no limits and does not end where mans free will begins.

So I reiterate: mans will is certainly free, but free only to sin because it is regulated by his sinful nature.




[Q UOTE=Taliesyn;3185683]Sorry beloved57 but I'm compelled by God (according to your own doctrine) to rain on your parade :rain:

If there is no free will there is no sin either.

Extremist Calvinists teach free grace, free salvation ... AND free wrath, free damnation.

To say there is no free will is equal to saying there is no such thing as human moral nature.
Morality can ONLY apply to those possessing volition, choice.

No free will means the author of this thread did not write it himself freely but was constrained to do so.
It thus also implies that no one else responding does so of their own free will but by "fate" or the "will of God", and that no matter what they say.

Thus how can anyone, at any time, accept the author's point of view? They cannot and reason, logic, scripture have nothing to do with any discussion ever, anywhere. All is "God's will" and nothing else, ever.

The doctrine of no free will is thus a pernicious doctrine of demons for it relieves men from any guilt whatsoever as there can be no guilt without self-determination.

The bible recognizes this everywhere. God ordains human governments and human courts of law based on the FACT of free will.

The Calvinist anti-free will doctrine is utterly foolish, illogical and contra scripture. Those preaching it always contradict themselves by the very preaching of it!

The best refutation of this extremist and unbalanced type of Calvinism was given centuries ago by John Fletcher in his "Checks to Antinomianism" -available online at archive dot org - check it out.

Beloved57 & others interested by the truth, you really need to read it before giving more of such unbiblical, unreasonable, salient falsehoods.

:)[/QUOTE]

beloved57
August 20th, 2012, 05:43 PM
tali


If there is no free will there is no sin either.
Please deal with post 220 ! Do you understand what I posted ?

beloved57
August 20th, 2012, 05:45 PM
rwe


Calvinism = no free will = NOT TRUE

What I posted in 220 is True, can you prove it wrong from scripture ?

beloved57
August 20th, 2012, 05:46 PM
I have been avoiding this thread because I hate to admit that anyone can be so far gone as to write something like this. B57 has been to heresy school and has graduated at the head of his class.

I know you been avoiding it, you should, but it will come up again at the Judgment !

Taliesyn
August 20th, 2012, 06:30 PM
tali


Please deal with post 220 ! Do you understand what I posted ?

You merely quoted some scripture in 220, there's nothing to deal with since it has little to do with the topic anyway.

And why in the world are you writing in Kings James English?

Taliesyn
August 20th, 2012, 06:33 PM
Calvinism = no free will = NOT TRUE

if you check that you find the reformed view is mans will is depraved, deranged, and derailed.

His nature is corrupted and his will is in bondage to sin.

Only by being regenerated can man choose Christ, and he does so freely, not by coercion, because he WANTS to, in fact, he is compelled by a grace unknown -- an grace that is irresistible.

Only a Calvinist warped by hyper C thinking and determinism will deny free will.

The problem is post modern man simply cannot come to grips with the idea he is not in charge. He worships a God he doesn't know, a God who is sovereign.

A God whose sovereignty knows no limits and does not end where mans free will begins.

So I reiterate: mans will is certainly free, but free only to sin because it is regulated by his sinful nature.



I never said all Calvinists are against free will. The so-called hyper Calvinists certainly are, but others are not.


"Free only to sin" is not true either as it brings us back to the inevitable consequence that man is no longer a moral agent. No choice = no moral agency.

But that's a different subject.

beloved57
August 20th, 2012, 06:36 PM
2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that or in order that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

That we [The Church, the Called and Chosen] should be made [poieō] the Righteousness of God in Him; and for this cause God purposed that through Death for sin, God condemning the sins of those Christ died for in Christ's Flesh Rom 8:3, and as a Result and fruit thereof, they were to be made [experientially] New Creatures, Living to God for His Eternal Purpose 1 Pet 1:3; and this is to be preached as an achievement of Christ's Work , Thats the Message of the Cross that Paul Gloried in Gal 6:14; Even here Paul is expressing the Blessed Effects of the Cross of Christ, for it brings about an crucifixion or separation from this evil world, according to the Will of God Gal 1:4, particularly the evil world of false religion, The evil false religious systems that hated and crucified Christ Jn 15:18-19


18 If [B]the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Baptist Bob
August 20th, 2012, 07:16 PM
Dude, are you for real or is this a project for your Sophistry class? People who don't agree with your philosophy are like an alternative to the Antichrist? What are your plans, to declare your town an independent canton, round up some heretics and watch 'em burn???

beloved57
August 20th, 2012, 07:17 PM
Dude, are you for real or is this a project for your Sophistry class? People who don't agree with your philosophy are like an alternative to the Antichrist? What are your plans, to declare your town an independent canton, round up some heretics and watch 'em burn???

Can prove anything wrong in post 229 ?

FiveSolas
August 20th, 2012, 08:16 PM
Some Seventh Day Adventists teach that meeting on Sunday is the mark of the beast. And now you are teaching that the man of sin is belief in freewill. Wow, what a convenient way to persuade people. Threaten that they will go to hell if they do not believe as you do! And how inflating to the ego. All Christians who believe like you are the elite. The rest of us are all going to hell, even though we have placed our faith in Jesus, because we do not completely agree with you! Don't you realize how much you sound like the leader of a cult? Don't you see how Satan is inflating your flesh in all of this? Can't you see how heretical and sectarian you are being? Christ is not divided! May our Lord Jesus remove the scales from your eyes, so that you may clearly see the body of Christ!

larssc
August 20th, 2012, 10:37 PM
I believe in absolute predestination, the Bible teaches it. I guess I would be call HyperCalvinist also.

God does not need our love. We do not have to have free will to glorify God. This Glorification is the reason for our existence.

"God, the great Creator of all things, doth uphold, direct dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by his most wise and holy providence, according to his infallible foreknowledge, and the free and immutable counsel of his own will, to the praise of the glory of his wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy.

II. Although in relation to the foreknowledge and decree of God, the first cause, all things come to pass immutably and infallibly

God from all eternity did by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will,freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin; nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.


III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death."

The above excerpts from the Westminster confession assert both Providence and free-will, but only in the compatibilist sense. It's is ALL God all the time, for His Glory.

Determinism is the way things work. God gives this meanining.

beloved57
August 21st, 2012, 01:46 AM
Some Seventh Day Adventists teach that meeting on Sunday is the mark of the beast. And now you are teaching that the man of sin is belief in freewill. Wow, what a convenient way to persuade people. Threaten that they will go to hell if they do not believe as you do! And how inflating to the ego. All Christians who believe like you are the elite. The rest of us are all going to hell, even though we have placed our faith in Jesus, because we do not completely agree with you! Don't you realize how much you sound like the leader of a cult? Don't you see how Satan is inflating your flesh in all of this? Can't you see how heretical and sectarian you are being? Christ is not divided! May our Lord Jesus remove the scales from your eyes, so that you may clearly see the body of Christ!

What about post 229 ? Can you prove it wrong from scripture ?

beloved57
August 21st, 2012, 01:48 AM
You merely quoted some scripture in 220, there's nothing to deal with since it has little to do with the topic anyway.

And why in the world are you writing in Kings James English?

If you cannot deal with that post, I have nothing to say unto you, you are all wind and no sail !

beloved57
August 21st, 2012, 01:51 AM
lar


III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death."

Do you believe Christ's Death saved all for whom He died ? Do you believe that in any way Christ's died for those predestined to everlasting death ?

Baptist Bob
August 21st, 2012, 08:45 AM
Yes, your original "interpretation" of II Thes. 2:3-4 violates one of the first principles of hermeneutics - a text cannot mean today what it has never meant before! What Paul had in his mind was the 16th-21st century debate about free will???? Non-sense!

larssc
August 21st, 2012, 11:34 PM
lar



Do you believe Christ's Death saved all for whom He died ? Do you believe that in any way Christ's died for those predestined to everlasting death ?

I'm afraid I don't have a firm answer to that. In the near past I would have said yes to the first, no to the second, which is traditional.

I am lately tending toward a calvinistic-universalism, ultimate reconciliation, with everlasting being not quite that.

I have no special revelation, just the Bible and guided discernment (I hope). God is merciful, loving and just. His will is done.

tbuitendyk
August 21st, 2012, 11:53 PM
Dear b57 --

I think I can help... you may have missed Romans 4:5 and become confused, thinking belief is a work:

"But to him that WORKETH NOT, BUT BELIEVETH on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

To believe the gospel is not a work -- it is simply trusting in Jesus' work.

Saying that God commands all to obey the gospel, as the scriptures do, does not imply that God is thereby telling man to WORK for his salvation -- on the contrary, He's telling man to NOT WORK, BUT RATHER BELIEVE.

Jesus: "Repent ye, and believe the gospel!" -- even though they couldn't?!?!?

t.

beloved57
August 22nd, 2012, 01:09 PM
tb


I think I can help... you may have missed Romans 4:5 and become confused, thinking belief is a work:

No you are no help, and yes believing is a work, something man does !

beloved57
August 22nd, 2012, 01:17 PM
lar


I'm afraid I don't have a firm answer to that.

Thats bad, you should know that. Do you profess to be a christian or a believer ?


I am lately tending toward a calvinistic-universalism, ultimate reconciliation, with everlasting being not quite that.

Wow !

beloved57
August 22nd, 2012, 01:35 PM
Now that Faith or Believing is a work can be discerned by Jn 6:29

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Whereby believing is stated to be the Work of God, and if we take this to mean that ones believing in Christ is an effectual Work of God in us to will and to do of His good pleasure as Per Phil 2:13 or that believing is the Work or duty that God requires men to do in order to believing in Christ, Now if the former, then God must be given all the credit for working in one to believe in His Son, but if the latter, that our believing is that work God requireth of us, to believe on His Son unto Salvation, then we are saved by our work. Either way believing is a Work here, the Work of Believing, So if it is our work of believing that got us saved, then that is Salvation by works and contrary to Scripture which saith Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

tbuitendyk
August 22nd, 2012, 01:45 PM
tb
No you are no help, and yes believing is a work, something man does !

"But to him that WORKETH NOT, BUT BELIEVETH on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

You contradict scripture when it is plain, proving that you are not rightly dividing the word of God.

b57: "believing is a work"
God: "believing is NOT a work"

Evidently I have to take your word or God's. Let's see...

beloved57
August 22nd, 2012, 01:51 PM
"But to him that WORKETH NOT, BUT BELIEVETH on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

That scripture does not say believing is not a work, for it is, it is something man does !

also deal with post 242

beloved57
August 22nd, 2012, 04:23 PM
Freewill gives man reason to boast , which is contrary to Grace Salvation through faith Eph 2:8-9, not of works lest any man should boast. Arminians and freewillers make themselves to differ in that they obeyed the command to repent to be saved, and so made himself to differ from him who did not obey the command to repent. So they overthrow the principle that Paul sets forth here in 1 Cor 4:7

7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

The True Christian knows for certain that their obedience to the Gospel was given them from Heaven Jn 3:27 where Christ sitteth at the Right hand of God Col 3:1

So those who believe and teach that their obedience made the difference for them of saved and lost, congratulations, for you are officially a boaster 2 Tim 3:2

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

For they are too proud to say that God Only makes one to differ in the acts of Gospel Obedience because that Deny's their idol freewill !

tbuitendyk
August 22nd, 2012, 05:02 PM
That scripture does not say believing is not a work, for it is, it is something man does !

also deal with post 242

Perhaps the words in Romans 4:5 "WORKETH NOT, BUT BELIEVETH" mean something different to you than to me. In this case I don't think we can communicate effectively.

It seems to me that Ephesians 2:8-9 only reinforces the fact that saving faith is not a work. Clearly we are saved "through" faith in God's graceful work (not "by" faith), which FAITH is further clarified to NOT BE WORK.

Both passages tell us that our believing faith IS NOT A WORK.

Mixing it up, that is, making FAITH unscripturally into a WORK, is the root of Calvinist confusion.

"I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, therefore repent ye and live!"

t.

DeaconAl
August 22nd, 2012, 05:54 PM
From Satan and Adam and Eve,free will has caused many to be lost to God.Please think things through before posting them.If free will doesnt exist,then God chose for only a few to be saved?Even though He loves all mankind and wishes that none shall perish(these are His words)?If He prevents most from being saved,how can a person be judged fairly?In fact no person can be judged whatsoever,good or evil,because this same logic says we only respond to God by irresistable grace.So why does irresistable grace "force" people to sin?Or is the kingdom of God spiritually divided against itself?We are called to repent-failing to do so means we sin willfully and are lost(there is no more sacrifice for sin,and we are sanctified unholy).Why would Jesus/God say"do this or dont do this".Why even have a bible ?Why preach the gospel~nobody can willingly hear the truth and accept Christ.Why does God expect us to obey if we are robots?How could God say"I love all mankind,I just wanna watch most of them burn and suffer in eternal hell for not doing the things which I called them to do,even though Iprevented him from doing them?This makes God,unjust,unloving,and downright evil and vendictive.Jesus said He came for the sick, NOT the righteous.ANd works based faith is not the same as being faithful and obedient.If we have nothing to do with following,why did Jesus say we must(parable of the wise and foolish builders).He equates a man who hears the words(but doesnt follow) as lost,aka dead.This is a believer who doesnt follow.Same story in the parable of the ten bridesmaids.Same as Jesus saying"not all who come to me and say to me lord,Lord,shall enter the kingdom but He who does the will God"

DeaconAl
August 22nd, 2012, 05:57 PM
the first lie in the bible was the devil saying to Eve "you will surely not die" when God said "you surely will die"(not sure if that is exact wording tho)Amen bro-keep the word!

beloved57
August 22nd, 2012, 06:55 PM
tb


Perhaps the words in Romans 4:5 "WORKETH NOT, BUT BELIEVETH" mean something different to you than to me. In this case I don't think we can communicate effectively.

Rom 4:5 says nothing about believing not being a work. Believing is a Work, it is something man does ! Post 242

beloved57
August 22nd, 2012, 06:57 PM
dea


Even though He loves all mankind and wishes that none shall perish

Thats a Lie, You must be talking about the god of your imagination !