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beloved57
June 23rd, 2011, 10:42 AM
John 3:7

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

When Jesus told Nicodemus that except a man be born again he cannot see [perceive] the Kingdom of God as per vs 3

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

In essence, what Jesus meant, except ye are of that seed in Me, by being Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World [Eph 1:4] ye cannot see or understand the Kingdom of God, which is to include it's Gospel, The Gospel of the Kingdom or of the Kingdom of God. Matt 24:14

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


Mark 1:14

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Which are also the Kingdom Mysteries Luke 8:10

And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Now, even though Jesus was giving a condition " except ye be born again ", yet He was not giving a imperative or duty for one to perform to become born again; because there is nothing a person can do to be born; even if it was for us to go back into our mothers womb, [ which its not] how could we accomplish that ? Could we make ourselves fetuses again ? Would that be in our ability ?

But nevertheless, Christ meant what He said in stating that 'Ye must be born Again " !

beloved57
June 23rd, 2011, 11:45 AM
To be born, one must first be in something, in order to be born out of it.

Peter said 1 Pet 1:23

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The word of here is the greek word ek and it means:

out of, from, by, away from

This denotes that being born is out of a seed ! Those who are born physically out of Adam, the corruptible seed, they were in Adam from the beginning of creation. Their physical lives were included in the them . Gen 1:27

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Gen 5:2

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.


When Adam was first created he had created within him his wife and his offspring that he was to bring forth, this we know because God said to him after He created him Gen 1:27-28

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:

Adam had a seed to bring forth of his kind as all living creatures did.

We know God had given them a seed from these words Gen 3:15

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her [Eve] seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Of course Eve's seed was Adam's seed.

Gen 4:25

25And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

Now hopefully we see the concept of being born entails first having a existence in a seed. Unfortunately being of ones seed is not determined by the offspring.

For instance, Levi did not determine himself to be of the seed of Abraham, to be in Abraham's loins as here Heb 7:9-10

9And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

10For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Who determined that Levi was of the seed of Abraham ?

DAN P
June 23rd, 2011, 12:22 PM
To be born, one must first be in something, in order to be born out of it.


Hi , and I know that I have asked you this question on other sites .

Where does Paul say that the MEMBERS of the Body of Christ need to be " born again " ???? and I personally ony accept what Paul says in this OUT of context question , bet you can not !!! dan p

Refractive
June 23rd, 2011, 01:40 PM
He came to Jesus at night and said to him, "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God, for no one can do these signs that you are doing unless God is with him."
3
Jesus answered and said to him, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above."


Footnote to verse 3:

3 [3] Born: see the note on John 1:13. From above: the Greek adverb anothen means both "from above" and "again." Jesus means "from above" (see John 3:31) but Nicodemus misunderstands it as "again." This misunderstanding serves as a springboard for further instruction.

----------

The word appears 13 times in Scripture. It is translated in the KJV as "again" only in John and in Gal 4:9. In every other case it is translated "from above" "from the top" and "from the beginning."

Nicodemus misunderstood Jesus, Who was trying to tell him that without our spiritual nature, we cannot perceive that which is of God.

beloved57
June 24th, 2011, 03:55 AM
No one has addressed the question, on how did Levi become of the seed of Abraham, hence ensuring he would be born to Abraham's Family ? This will help to understand Jesus statement, ye must be born again !

beloved57
June 26th, 2011, 08:51 AM
I find it to be no better time to include in this thread the Truth of regeneration while witnessing to the need of being born again. The truth of the matter is this, in order to be born again, one must first be regenerated. I know many think they are the exact same thing, but they are not, however they are related or connected to one another. Only those being regenerated by their Union with Christ shall be born from above . Now understand this, Regeneration is corporate or collective, and occurred all at once for the entire body of Christ or seed together, by virtue of their union with the risen Christ.

The New Birth is Individual and occurs to each of the regenerated appointed time by God. Ecclesiastes 3:1-2

1To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2A time to be born, and a time to die

This applies equally to spiritually being born. The word born here is the hebrew word yalad and means:


to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail

to beget

The word is used in Isa 66:8

8Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

Each of the regenerated shall be brought forth in their New Birth. Remember when James wrote James 1:18

18Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

The word beget here means to bring forth, James here is describing the New Birth of those who had been regenerated. The word of Truth, which is the Gospel brings this New Birth to light or to manifestation.

Again, Regeneration is corporate, its the sum total of every member of Christ seed, having been in Him when died, was buried, and risen again, they rose together with Him, that was their regeneration from the dead as well, and their being seated together with Him in the Heavenlies [above]. You see when Christ laid down His Life for the Sheep, the Life of the church was laid also [ 2 Cor 5:14], and when He took it again and rose from the dead [Jn 10:17], it was a reproduction or regeneration. Isa 26:19

19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

This is the describing in prophecy, the regeneration of Christ [after death] and His Church in Union with Him see [ Eph 2:6] !

beloved57
June 27th, 2011, 09:38 AM
In coming to a biblical understanding of the word regeneration, we shall define the word. Its used only Twice in the NT :

Matt 19:28

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Titus 3:5

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The word in the greek is the feminine noun paliggenesia:

) new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration

a) hence renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God, a radical change of mind for the better. The word often used to denote the restoration of a thing to its pristine state, its renovation, as a renewal or restoration of life after death

Its made up of two greek words palin which means:

anew, again

a) renewal or repetition of the action

b) again, anew

And the word genesis which means:

source, origin

a) a book of one's lineage, i.e. in which his ancestry or progeny are enumerated

2) used of birth, nativity

3) of that which follows origin, viz. existence, life

It also means generation as in Matt 1:1

1The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

So the word can mean a New Generation, A new beginning, A New existence, or origin, A New source, a New reproduction.

Again, the New Birth is a outcome of this Regeneration.

One of the definitions of regeneration is :


a renewal or restoration of life after death

This Our Lord experienced, in His resurrection.

Acts 3:15

And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

Acts 13:34

And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.


Rom 6:9-10

9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

I could multiply scriptures, but the point is to show that in the sense of restoration of life after death, Christ experienced a regeneration.

I believe this is what He meant in Matt 19:28, when He says in the regeneration when the Son of Man shall sit on the Throne of His Glory.

When did this occur if not after His resurrection ? Scripture plainly intimates that after His suffering, His death and resurrection, He shall enter into His Glory. Lk 24:26,20

26Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

Suffer what things ? see vs 20

20And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.

When He rose from the Dead He became Lord of both the dead and the Living Rom 14:9

For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

This word revive means the same as regeneration, a restoration of life after death.

After Christ's humiliating death, and His resurrection, He entered into His Mediatorial Glory as both Lord and Christ Acts 2:36

Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

He was invested with [from the Father] all power in both Heaven and Earth Matt 28:19

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

If these things were not entering into His Throne of Glory as stated in Matt 19:28, I don't know what is ?

And if so, thats the regeneration He spake of.

Now one more thing about the Matt 19:28, in the original there is no punctuation, that is the translators supply them as they deem it best to their Judgment. In light of that, there should have been a period after the words followed me instead of the comma.

And so it would read Matt 19:28

28And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me. In the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Jesus was specifically telling His Disciples, the ones who followed Him, the Twelve, that they would be Co Rulers with Him in the Spread of His Gospel Kingdom throughout the Earth. Perhaps what Jesus had in mind was this what He spake unto them earlier in Matt 16:17-19

17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

This I believe is a direct fulfillment of Isa 32:1

1Behold, a king[Jesus Christ] shall reign in righteousness, and princes[The Twelve] shall rule in judgment.

Now the main point hitherto is that Jesus Christ resurrection from the dead, is a regeneration and entering into His Glory !

beloved57
June 28th, 2011, 08:16 AM
Now I have previously shown how the word regeneration can and does mean a renewing, a reviving, a restoring to Life after death, and that Christ's rising from the dead was a regeneration, whereby afterwards He entered into His Glory.

Again, the word regeneration is composed of two greek words, one being :

the word genesis which means: genesis

source, origin

a) a book of one's lineage, i.e. in which his ancestry or progeny are enumerated

2) used of birth, nativity

Notice, its a birth.

Now how many scriptures are there that indicates Jesus Christ being a birth or begotten ?

Acts 13:33

God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

The word begotten here is the greek word gennaō and means:


to be born

b) to be begotten

1) of women giving birth to children



The raising up again and the begotten thee are analogous.

Col 1:18

18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

The word for firstborn here in describing the resurrection of Christ, is the word tiktō and means:


to bring forth, bear, produce (fruit from the seed)

a) of a woman giving birth

Rev 1:5

5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

So, it can be biblically established that Christ Resurrection from the dead was a Birth or a Generation.

Now, with that mind, He was the Federal Head of a seed that was in Him, and when He rose from the dead, His seed rose to, that is His regeneration from the dead, was also there regeneration from the dead, for He rose not as a private individual, but as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb 13:20

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

This is what paul means also in Eph 2:6, that we were raised up together with Christ. Eph 2:6

6And hath raised us up together,[with Christ] and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

This is the regeneration of the Church, collectively, with their Head.

It is by this regeneration, the elect, who were in Christ when He arose, receive their New Birth.

1 Pet 1:3

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Now notice this word begotten us again here, its the same word used in Acts 13:33, and peter uses the plural pronoun us, meaning He and all those who rose up with Christ from the dead.

The NIV translates 1 Pet 1:3 as this:

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


ESV Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

GWT Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! God has given us a new birth because of his great mercy. We have been born into a new life that has a confidence which is alive because Jesus Christ has come back to life

And so, this is the regeneration of the Church, collectively with Christ's resurrection from the dead, and this sets the stage for each member of that seed in Christ, to be born again individually and experimentally.. This is why they are said to be born from above where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Cp Jn 3:3

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again[from above], he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Col 3:1

1If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

To be born again is to be born of that regenerated seed of Christ, where He sitteth on the right hand of God with all of His seed with Him.

coulter4president
June 28th, 2011, 11:52 AM
in St Jn 3:3 it says that you must be born of WATER and the SPIRIT..

not just one or the other..

"Baptism now saveth you"

IXOYE
June 28th, 2011, 11:55 AM
in St Jn 3:3 it says that you must be born of WATER and the SPIRIT..

not just one or the other..

"Baptism now saveth you"

And yet there were those that were filled with the Spirit and hadn't been baptised yet....

Does the Spirit inhabit non "saved" people?

Were they not Saved?

IXOYE
June 28th, 2011, 11:57 AM
Beloved, can you define what "BORN AGAIN" is?

And you do realize the "BORN AGAIN" concept most people hold today, didn't exist until a few years back when Wesley was teaching in the states, right?

chrysostom
June 28th, 2011, 12:00 PM
To be born, one must first be in something, in order to be born out of it.


so you are not born again?

coulter4president
June 28th, 2011, 12:01 PM
And yet there were those that were filled with the Spirit and hadn't been baptised yet....

Does the Spirit inhabit non "saved" people?

Were they not Saved?

well, God is big enough to save someone who has the desire to be saved..

its just that water baptism is the normative means of achieving salvation...

but salvation can be lost...

hence the sacrament of Reconciliation, or Confession

coulter4president
June 28th, 2011, 12:03 PM
Beloved, can you define what "BORN AGAIN" is?

And you do realize the "BORN AGAIN" concept most people hold today, didn't exist until a few years back when Wesley was teaching in the states, right?

yes, we need to go back to our roots.. the Original Church

and if ppl will only study history they will see that this Church is the Roman Catholic Church..

it did NOT apostatize in the 4th century with Constantine as some say..

if the Church went into apostacy, that means that Jesus did not keep his word to protect His Church..

"I will build My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it" (St Mt 16:18)

Sherman
June 28th, 2011, 12:52 PM
Beloved, can you define what "BORN AGAIN" is?

And you do realize the "BORN AGAIN" concept most people hold today, didn't exist until a few years back when Wesley was teaching in the states, right?

The born again phrase is much older than that.
John 3:2-4

The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

beloved57
June 28th, 2011, 02:23 PM
Titus 3:5

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Now again, the view I have been sharing is making a distinction between regeneration and the new birth or being born again or born from above.

Regeneration is collectively having to do with all the members of Christ seed, that He is the Head of, The Church, and regeneration occurred when they in Him, were raised up together from the Dead. Eph 2:6 and Isa 26:19.

As Jesus was begotten from the dead Rev 1:5, so where they, His death to the Law was their death also. Rom 7:4a

Now, what occurred when Christ died for His seed ? A washing took place. Rev 1:5

5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

You see that ? Having Loved us and washed us, this is collectively all at once John is speaking of. This washing took place with Christ blood.

I believe this is the same washing of Titus 3:5, the washing of regeneration. The word for washing here is the greek word loutron and means:

bathing, bath, the act of bathing


And it's from the root word louō which means:

to bathe, wash

And is the same word used in Rev 1:5 for wash.

Loutron the word in Titus 3:5 is also used for the washing described in Eph 5:26

26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Notice also that the word washing of water by the word. Notice how the word is said to be washing, so this is not water baptism, but its the water of the Word.

The word water is the same word used in Jn 3:5 and its usage there is primarily in the same subject manner as here.

Also, it is stated, that after Christ resurrection, that before sitting down at the right hand of the Father, He had what ? Why, He had purified us from our sins. Heb 1:3

3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

This again is a corporate or collective purging of all the seed He represented. The word purge is the word katharismos and means:

cleansing, purification, a ritual purgation or washing

a) of the washing of the Jews before and after their meals

b) of levitical purification of women after childbirth

c) a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

So again, a washing,a cleansing is being emphasized, and because its associated with the removal of guilt, blood must have been involved and redemption.

So, this is regeneration, and its corporate, and has to do with the cleansing and washing from sin of all the elect seed in Christ, and this sets the stage for the New Birth which I will deal with next.

coulter4president
June 28th, 2011, 02:54 PM
none of those psgs contradicts the fact that sin still affects us humans DEEPLY!

none of those psgs implies that it is OK to sin

or even that its not OK... but no biggie if you do

If you believe in Once Saved Always Saved..

you need to read St Mt 18:23




Matthew 18:23-35
King James Version (KJV)


23Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.

24And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.

25But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.

26The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

27Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

28But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.

29And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

30And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.

31So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.

32Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:

33Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

34And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

35So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.


this guy was TOTALLY forgiven...

yet he lost this gift... through SIN, specifically a lack of forgiveness toward others..

coulter4president
June 28th, 2011, 02:56 PM
St Mt 18:23

is a good one to explain Purgatory...

and it is not the o nly one..

coulter4president
June 29th, 2011, 10:15 AM
again, Truth has the last word...

you ppl had better HOPE there is a Purgatory..

because from what i have experienced/observed...

most people i know do NOT at all deserve to be in Heaven (if their treatment of yours truly is any indication...)... No, they are far from Heaven since they violate St Mt 25:31-46 on a regular basis... far from being with a Holy God in a Heaven

where - HELLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

There is NO sin...

NO hate

NO viscious name calling

NO telling others they are going to Hell

etc...

etc....

IXOYE
June 29th, 2011, 03:28 PM
well, God is big enough to save someone who has the desire to be saved..

its just that water baptism is the normative means of achieving salvation...

but salvation can be lost...

hence the sacrament of Reconciliation, or Confession


No argument from me. Just trying to keep the chat honest.

IXOYE
June 29th, 2011, 03:30 PM
yes, we need to go back to our roots.. the Original Church

and if ppl will only study history they will see that this Church is the Roman Catholic Church..

it did NOT apostatize in the 4th century with Constantine as some say..

if the Church went into apostacy, that means that Jesus did not keep his word to protect His Church..

"I will build My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it" (St Mt 16:18)


It's the E.O. church. It was an Eastern thinking religion. The west took it and tried to turn it into aristotlean logic and fit all the mysteries in a box.

Neener neener. :P

IXOYE
June 29th, 2011, 03:33 PM
FIrst, I wasn't commenting on the phrase, which btw isn't in the verse you quoted, I was commenting on the concept people consider born again, today. It was remade by a disciple of Wesley's. Study the History of the Church, any book will talk about it. I am sorry I can't remember his name.

The actual words to what you quoted says born from above. Which would be reflected in gal 2;20, it's no longer I who live but HE who lives in me. And thus, show you romans 8:9 and gal 5:16. Do read them in that order, if you read them. :) Please.






The born again phrase is much older than that.
John 3:2-4

The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

beloved57
June 30th, 2011, 03:06 PM
Titus 3:5

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

After and following and connected with the Regeneration [The washing by the blood of Christ] comes the renewing of the Holy Ghost, or the New Birth. The New Birth of the individual is based on the washing of regeneration or simply put, Christ Blood, they having been purged [legally] from the guilt of their sins that had been laid upon Christ. Let's look again at this purging Heb 1:3

3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our[collectively] sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

This word purged is the greek word katharismos and means:

cleansing, purification, a ritual purgation or washing

a) of the washing of the Jews before and after their meals

b) of levitical purification of women after childbirth

c) a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

Notice that it states, its a expiatory sacrifice. What does that mean ? It means to make amends, to atone, so its related to the atonement.

The word atonement is used throughout the OT with that Ideal

Its the word kaphar and it is translated many times as purge:

Isa 6:7

7And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

So here its related to having sin taken away !

Ps 79:9

9Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of thy name: and deliver us, and purge away our sins, for thy name's sake.

So all those whose sins were purged by the blood of Christ, shall be renewed by the Holy Ghost, which is the New Birth. The word renewing is the greek word anakainōsis and means:

a renewal, renovation, complete change for the better, Its from a root word which means to make new. To be changed into a new kind of Life.

You see, because the person has been regenerated, has been forgiven of all legal guilt before God, A New Life which corresponds to their Justification by the blood of Christ, is given them, the New Birth. This New Birth is given to all for whom Christ died and rose again for. Remember Paul said of Him, who was delivered for our offences and raised for our Justification Rom 4:25

All these shall be Born Again, born from above where Christ sitteth on the Right Hand of God !

chrysostom
June 30th, 2011, 03:56 PM
are you born again?

coulter4president
July 1st, 2011, 12:07 PM
No argument from me. Just trying to keep the chat honest.

so when is th last time you went to Confession?

;)

coulter4president
July 1st, 2011, 12:09 PM
It's the E.O. church. It was an Eastern thinking religion. The west took it and tried to turn it into aristotlean logic and fit all the mysteries in a box.

Neener neener. :P

not sure i get your drift..

But i know that if someone were to tell me i could go somewhere, even some place i had always been tuaght was "evil".. in order to spend time with Jesus Christ Himself..

i would check it out...

coulter4president
July 1st, 2011, 12:10 PM
are you born again?


i was born again of water and the Holy Spirit when i was baptized as an infant...

Thank you SO much, Mother and Father... :)

coulter4president
July 1st, 2011, 12:11 PM
infant baptism:

sometimes if you don't get something early,

you never really get it at all.... :nono:

beloved57
July 3rd, 2011, 06:38 AM
In John 3, Jesus was presenting an analogy, the Spiritual Birth with the earthly or natural birth of a person when He made the statement " Ye must be born again " or another time, and this birth must be from above. The flesh cannot be born over again, but within the Old Man a New Man is born, a New Man is Created as Per Eph 4:24

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

This word created is the greek word ktizo and means:

to create
of God creating the worlds
to form, shape, i.e. to completely change or transform

This is describing the renewing of the Holy Ghost as per Titus 3:5, which the word renewing means:

a renewal, renovation, complete change for the better

So we see in comparing nature and The Spirit, when a natural child is conceived in the mothers womb, there was nothing on the part of the child that could cause it's own generation. It had no ability to command life. It does not choose whom its parents are, neither the time and place of it's birth. Ec 3:1-2

1To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

Nor does it choose of its individuality and physical biology. The child is altogether passive as the words to be born again denotes. Its in the passive voice. It receives the nature that the parents pass on to it. It receives this life at inception, and so, the Spiritual Birth, the one being born again or from above had nothing to do with his or her spiritual birth any more than they had to do with their natural birth, they receive that spiritual life from a seed implanted within by the Holy Spirit.

beloved57
July 4th, 2011, 07:42 AM
The New Birth in and of itself was nothing New for the Children of Faith [OT Saints], it was just at that time a nameless reality, and began to be elaborated in the NT. For Abraham saw this Kingdom of God, which one needs to born again to see, and so did the Patriarch David, hence they were born again or from above. Now this will no doubt come as a shocker to those who are being deceived into believing that water baptism plays a part in being born from above. For who water baptized Abraham, Isaac and Jacob or King David ?

The New Birth is not declared as fact in the OT scriptures but it's blessed effects were made evident in the lives of the those Saints, the Patriarchs, and Gentiles i.e Rahab, Ruth and perhaps Job,I say perhaps with Job because some contend he was a jew, but nevertheless, he was born again.

Heb 11:13 reads:

13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Speaking of all the preceding Characters of Faith in vs 4-12, it is stated that they died in Faith having seen the promises afar off. The word seen here is the greek word eidō and it is the same word Jesus uses in Jn 3:3

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Thats what they saw or understood, the promises of the Kingdom. James 2:5

Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

Those that died in faith in Heb 11, Loved God ! They saw by Faith the Kingdom promised them.

All of these therefore had been born from above, born of the water and Spirit. If not, they could not have seen or believed or embraced the Promises or the promised Kingdom.

So the New Birth was not New at all.

chrysostom
July 4th, 2011, 07:48 AM
are you born again?

beloved57
July 4th, 2011, 02:26 PM
John 3:7

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Ye must be born again is a fundamental doctrine of Christ, and is the difference between God Revealed Religion[Christianity] and man made religions.

If we take away the necessity of the New Birth then Christianity becomes another foul and hateful bird Rev 18:2

2And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, [B]and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

The prevailing concept of men in all man made religions is that man has the ability to reform himself, change himself, yes even give himself a new birth, or have a hand in it. Yet scripture says Jer 13:23

Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

The BBE Translation reads: Is it possible for the skin of the Ethiopian to be changed, or the markings on the leopard? Then it might be possible for you to do good, who have been trained to do evil.

The natural man believes in himself and believes through self effort, religious instruction, and a conducive environment, they can become Christians or acceptable characters before God; This no doubt was King Agrippa reasoning when he replied to paul thusly Acts 26:28

Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

A man must be born again[or from above] to receive Christ [who is from above],His Doctrine, to believe on His Name, thats taught here Jn 1:12-13

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Vs 13 explains or gives reason for vs 12

chrysostom
July 5th, 2011, 03:50 AM
are you born again?

beloved57
July 5th, 2011, 04:47 AM
are you born again?

This thread is not about me !

chrysostom
July 5th, 2011, 04:52 AM
This thread is not about me !

do I have to start a thread about you just to find out if you are born again?

beloved57
July 5th, 2011, 06:47 AM
do I have to start a thread about you just to find out if you are born again?

Thats up to you. But this thread is not about me. And I will not participate in any thread that is. If anything I will report it to the moderators.

chrysostom
July 5th, 2011, 06:54 AM
To be born, one must first be in something, in order to be born out of it.


we are now in our body
so
we must come out of this body in order to be reborn

coulter4president
July 5th, 2011, 10:20 AM
Jesus said that if you do not EAT his flesh and drink His blood you have no life in you - St Jn 6

you protestants are in big trouble...

wiseserpent101
July 5th, 2011, 10:32 AM
Part of the reason why Jesus said you must be born again is because of the Jewish understanding at the time. Many people in Jesus's day were born Jews and lived a cultural lifestyle of the Law. This didn't help the Jews to escape from the lusts of the World nor did it prevent them from becoming the world for Jesus it was all about conversion. Now some Gentiles do convert to Judaism but to be born a Jew and to convert to Judaism would be unthinkable and therefor impractical. So thus converting a Jew to become a Jew would pose a problem. Therefor Jesus brought the command to be Born from above that is to be born from Heaven.

Jesus Christ the Righteous wants us to be born again which gives us a new spiritual understanding. This helps us to break off from the lusts of the world and to stop becoming like the rest of the world. He was speaking in this way to bring them out of the religious thinking that just because we have a unique relationship with God doesn't mean we are born of God. We need to be born of God which is to be born of love.

beloved57
July 5th, 2011, 05:25 PM
Jn 3:6-7

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Ye must be born again is not Jesus giving a command for people to do. No more would Jesus command a person to be born Spiritually as He would command a person to be born physically, for its just not in mans power to be born.

vs 6

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

When speaking of that which is born, its always in the passive voice, not the active voice.

However though it is not a imperative for one to go do, it is a biological necessity ! When I say biological, I means as in biology, having life. Man cannot give himself life, though its necessary to have in order to perform functions in life.

You see men by nature is only flesh, and corrupt sinful flesh, so says Jesus in vs 6. The flesh can be reformed, cultured and instructed, but it remains sinful flesh. The word flesh is generic as well and scripture uses it to constitute man as a whole, soul and body and spirit; And men by nature [flesh] is dead, dead in trespasses and sins Eph 2:1

1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; See Matt 8:22

Eph 2:1 is a biological condition. This does not mean that man has no living vitality, but its in a sphere that is alienated from the Life of God Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Take plant life for example and Animal life, both have life, however there is a biological difference in their type of lives, Animal Life is of a Higher order than plant life, so it is with the Spiritual that is of the incorruptible seed Christ, and that Natural Life in Adam of corruptible seed. See 1 Pet 1:23.

We by natural birth are alive only in that Life derived from Adam, the sphere of the flesh Rom 8:5

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

And we are dead and alienated to the things of God all the while in the flesh. Even when and if we are super religious, and very sincere and serious about it, we are still only functioning in the sphere of the flesh. That is what Jesus was telling a very religious man at the time.

Nicodemus, ye must be born again, or there is no life in you. Jn 6:53

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

To eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man is a evidence of life, of spiritual life. To believe on Him, for thats what to eat and drink mean here, we must have already have been given life from the dead. For its a spiritual eating and a spiritual drinking by Faith.

Nick M
July 5th, 2011, 11:03 PM
John 3:7

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.



Why don't you explain verse 8 to us, oh great teacher of the cosmic lottery?

beloved57
July 7th, 2011, 09:08 AM
Jn 3:7

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Marvel Not ! The word marvel is a word that denotes astonishment, wonderment. Its the word used in Lk 8:25

25And he said unto them, Where is your faith? And they being afraid wondered, saying one to another, What manner of man is this! for he commandeth even the winds and water, and they obey him.

Its the word admired as in 2 Thess 1:10

10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

What Jesus was saying to Nicodemus is that a man must receive a second life, a second communication of life. He was not telling Nicodemus to do that for himself, for that's impossible, for men cannot communicate to themselves a new birth or a new life, though many delude themselves into thinking they can .

Lets think about birth for a moment, as we see the analogy of it from natural birth. Does Natural Life exist before it's manifestation at Birth ? When a Mother gives birth to a child for the first time, was that the very beginning of that Child's Life ? If any has any sense at all of the bio of a birth, then you know that the actual birth of a baby was not the beginning of its life, but only the manifestation of a conception and a development, that conception being 9 months prior, under normal circumstances. If this be true of natural birth, then I hesitate not that its equally true of a Spiritual Birth, that is, that a life existed [Spiritually Jn 1:4]] before it is brought into manifestation by Birth.

In order to be born, we must first be the offspring of the One giving Birth. To have been given physical birth into this physical world, we had to be the offspring of our Physical Father, His seed, and so likewise to be given Spiritual Birth, we had to be the offspring of a Spiritual Father ! Isa 53:10

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Now I would venture to say that most would agree that this verse is referring to Jesus Christ, and it indicates that He has a seed. The word seed here is the hebrew word zera`and means:

seed, sowing, offspring

a) a sowing

b) seed

c) semen virile

d) offspring, descendants, posterity, children

Jesus has a offspring, Just as a Physical Father has a offspring, so Christ as a Spiritual Father has a offspring, spiritual descendants.

Jesus in the realm of redemption is a Father, even from everlasting, that's what's indicated in Isa 9:6

6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

We know this verse is speaking of the Son of God, and all the different titles belong to Him, one of which is the Everlasting Father. This is not designating Him God the Father,But pointing to His being a Father of a spiritual seed given Him. The word Father is the Hebrew word 'ab and means:

of producer, generator (fig.)

A Generator ! Whats that ? it means:

to bring into existence; cause to be; produce.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the generator of His spiritual offspring, He brings them into existence, produces them, cause them to be !

Their[His Offspring or seed] Life was in Him. Jn 1:4

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

What Life ? The Life of His seed, His Offspring.

All of what I am showing here is important to Jesus statement, "Ye must be born again " and exactly what that means. Jesus means, that one must have a second communication of life given them.

beloved57
July 7th, 2011, 11:36 AM
In continuing to understand what Jesus means by " Ye must be born again " we will be more specific as to what a birth is. The greek word in our text is the word gennaō and means:


of men who fathered children

a) to be born

b) to be begotten

1) of women giving birth to children

2) metaph.

a) to engender, cause to arise, excite

b) in a Jewish sense, of one who brings others over to his way of life, to convert someone

c) of God making Christ his son

d) of God making men his sons through faith in Christ's work

As stated earlier, we must be first the offspring of the One giving birth, mainly the Father.

A birth is a continuing of a Father, a Progenitor , of whom they [the seed] take their image after. Remember Gen 5:3-4

3And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

4And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

The word for beget and begotten in this passage is the Hebrew word yalad and means :

to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail

a) (Qal)

1) to bear, bring forth

a) of child birth

b) of distress (simile)

c) of wicked (behaviour)

2) to beget

b) (Niphal) to be born

c) (Piel)

1) to cause or help to bring forth

2) to assist or tend as a midwife

3) midwife (participle)

d) (Pual) to be born

e) (Hiphil)

1) to beget (a child)

Now how did Seth become Adam's offspring or seed ? Remember Eve said at his birth Gen 4:25

25And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed[Offspring] instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

Did Seth become Adam's Offspring by His own will ? Was it His choice to be born of As Adam's seed ? Or was it as Eve stated, that God hath appointed Him their seed or Offspring. We may learn that it's up to God's appointment who belongs to whose offspring and whom they will receive birth.

So its only one way that Seth became the Offspring of Adam, that was by the Sovereign purpose of God.

A birth, a seed, is determined by God, not the freewill of men. Its the continuation of a man's image and likeness.

beloved57
July 11th, 2011, 07:17 AM
A birth is a continuing of a Father, a Progenitor , of whom they [the seed] take their image after. Remember Gen 5:3-4 (http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Gen%205.3-4)

3And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

4And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

The word for beget and begotten in this passage is the Hebrew word yalad and means :

to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail


Remember Jesus words In John 12:24

24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jesus here is actually telling us how one is born again, why one is born again. No doubt the Lord Himself is the Corn of Wheat that is about to fall into the ground and die, and if He dies, the resultant effect is that it will bring forth much fruit.

The word bringeth forth is the greek word phero and means:

To produce

The word fruit is the greek word karpos and means:

the fruit of one's loins, i.e. his progeny, his posterity

Jesus is saying, that if He did not die, He would abide alone as a corn of wheat, but if He dies, This would produce more wheat liken unto Himself, for the law of reproduction is for the seed to bring fort after it's own kind. Lets look at this law put into motion in Gen 1:11-12

And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Notice, whose seed was in itself !

Jesus is saying, that as a Corn of Wheat, He has a seed in Himself, and if He dies, this seed of His will be reproduced, it will be brought forth , He will be reproduced. Now how does this reproducing take place ?

Its by being Born Again, receiving a New Birth, His death, His dying, falling into the ground and dying, produces this New Birth, His Spiritual Offspring, His much Fruit.

This is why Peter says in 1 Pet 1:23

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Jesus Christ is that incorruptible seed [Corn of wheat] of which we are born again. How do we know this ? Because His resurrection from the dead showed that He was incorruptible !

Ps 16:10; Acts 2:27;13:35

And it is by this resurrection of the incorruptible Seed [Corn of wheat] that we [True Believers, Elect] are born again 1 Pet 1:3

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

From the dead ! Remember Jesus said if the Corn of wheat falls into the ground and what ? And dies , be dead. But if it dies , it brings forth much fruit, this Jesus said knowing that He would be raised from the dead. Matt 16:21

From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Matt 17:9

And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

So Jesus knew in Jn 12:24 that He would be risen from the dead as that Corn of wheat that died !

beloved57
July 18th, 2011, 09:43 AM
1 Pet 1:23

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Jesus said to Nicodemus these words Jn 3:7

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Jesus was telling Nicodemus that he must be born again of [out of] incorruptible seed !

Notice the phrase " but of incorruptible" speaking of seed ! As by Nature all men are born of [out of] corruptible seed.

The word of is the greek word ek a preposition denoting:

A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative

out of, from, by, away from


So ones birth must originate out of an source or cause.

In this case the source must be an incorruptible seed. The word of God, which is Christ, The Logos of God Jn 1:1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Rev 19:13

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

The Incarnate Word Jn 1:14 had a seed in Him, that is Life Jn 1:4

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.


This is seed Life and so it is incorruptible seed life.

This Life was in Him , Just as seed life was in Adam which however was corruptible life.

So in the same way one was born of corruptible seed of Adam, so likewise one must be born of incorruptible seed, The Word of God, to partake of Spiritual Life.

But one must have had life already in Adam to have been born out of him, and so likewise, one must have life already in The Logos to be born out of Him.

We know that Life was in Him before the incarnation by Jn 1:4

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

The word life is singular and the word men is plural, denoting it was one life for many, a seed Life, a Generation who had life in Him.

beloved57
August 6th, 2011, 09:58 PM
1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Being born again not of corruptible seed [adam] but of incorruptible seed, the word of God [Christ the Logos Jn 1:1,4,14].

Now understand, in order to have been born of adam of corruptible seed, our very existence in the flesh proves or is evidence that God gave us natural physical life in the earthly adam. This means adam was our natural father or progenitor. Now we did not will our way into adam, ask to be in adam, but this was determined by God. God also determined who, when and where our physical life would be manifested by child birth Acts 17:26

26And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Ecclesiastes 3:1-2

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

The key here is understanding that in order to have been born physically, God must have purposed and chose in adam, and gave us physical life in him even before it was developed and manifested. Yes, God chose us in adam.

Now, in order to be born of incorruptible seed into a spiritual life, one must have been in Christ the Spiritual Father or Progenitor, we must have been given to Him for His Spiritual Offspring, in other words, we must have been chosen in Him as part of His seed. If one is truly born again, it demonstrates that we were Chosen in Him and God gave us Spiritual Life in Him before the world began. Eph 1:4 and 2 Tim 1:9.

So when Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born again, in essence Jesus was telling him that he must be one of the chosen ones in Him before the world began. To be born of incorruptible seed, which is Christ, the Logos of God..

beloved57
August 15th, 2011, 04:29 PM
A Birth is not the Creation or origination of Life, but the manifestation of life and is termed procreation. The natural man that a believer has [ as by nature children of wrath] is also called the old man Eph 4:22; Col 3:9, for this was created in Adam, but procreation by natural generation. That New Man Eph 4:24

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Also see New Creature 2 Cor 5:17

Immortal Life in a Believer [Eternal or Everlasting Life], or the inward man as Rom 7:22; 2 Cor 4:16, This Life was given us in Christ Jesus before the World began, and is made manifest by Spiritual Generation when Born of God, and presented with the Gospel, for the Gospel brings this immortal life to light or manifestation 2 Tim 1:9-10

Thats why Jesus says, those believing on Him during His Public Ministry, were having Eternal Life Jn 6:47

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Those believing on Him were born of Incorruptible Seed !

beloved57
August 19th, 2011, 10:34 PM
1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

When Peter writes of being born again of incorruptible seed, there is no reason why it is not the seed we read of in Isa 53:10

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

This is the seed of the Suffering Servant, which is the word of God made flesh John 1:1,14

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Also see Rev 19:13

For Peter goes on to write, being born again,of that incorruptible seed, by the word of God !

The Logos of God. Yes the Logos of God, was given a Seed Isa 53:10

And as He it was and is incorruptible. In order to enter the Kingdom of God, one must be born of this incorruptible seed,

The only way to be born of this incorruptible seed, we would have to be in that seed, and that's done solely by God's Sovereign and Eternal Purpose.

beloved57
September 13th, 2011, 01:31 PM
Titus 3:5

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

New Birth or Regeneration of any individual is an act of of Mercy, not a offer of mercy. It is stated here that its according to His Mercy that He saved the Elect, by New Birth. Its also stated that God will have mercy on whom He will have Mercy, mans will or effort does not dictate whom God has Mercy upon Rom 9:13-16

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

So New Birth or Being born again is governed by that same principle, we did not determine our first birth either, it also was determined by God's Sovereignty. It is insane thinking for one to teach and believe they receive a New Birth or are born again or regenerated because of an act they do , like believe ! For New Birth or Regeneration in scripture is described also in what is a metaphor and that is a Creation! Scripture says Isa 43:7

Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. cp Acts 15:7

That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

The word for created in Isa 43:7 is the Hebrew word bara' and means:

to create, shape, form

a) (Qal) to shape, fashion, create (always with God as subject)

1) of heaven and earth

2) of individual man

3) of new conditions and circumstances

4) of transformations

b) (Niphal) to be created

1) of heaven and earth

2) of birth

3) of something new

4) of miracles


Now notice of the varied meanings of the word that one of them is of birth !

So its not unscriptural to classify a New Birth as a New Creation. Paul writes in Eph 4:24

24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

And so we have depraved and sinful men claiming to become a New Man by an act of their freewill, they assisted or cooperated with God in His Creation..

Now I can understand why the Man of Sin sits in the Temple of God saying that he is God, because he shares in a prerogative that Only God should have, and that is to be the Creator. In Isa it is said of God, that all whom are called by His Name, that is to be a Christian, that He Created for His Glory. Those who teach they are Born again because of a decision they made, an exercises of their choice and freewill, call God a Liar and boldly proclaim that they played a part in their being created and so they share the Glory that belongs only to God.. Isa 42:8

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Cruciform
September 13th, 2011, 03:02 PM
Ye must be born again!
Addressed in an earlier thread here (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2769727&postcount=1).


Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

beloved57
September 13th, 2011, 06:53 PM
Eph 4:24

24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

2 Cor 5:17

17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gal 6:15

15For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

To create is to bring something into existence that had not a being before, So New Birth or Regeneration if answers it figure, must mean something brought into existence; And yet proud man will insist that they contributed to their creation, that they had a choice in the matter ! That is equivalent to saying they had a choice to be formed in the womb Job 31:15

Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did not one fashion us in the womb !

God declares, All who are called by His Name [ Christian], He created them for His Glory Isa 43:7

7Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

"Even everyone that is called by my name…
That is called by the name of God, a son or daughter of his; or by the name of Christ, a Christian; whoever belongs to the Lord, whom he calls by his name; and who, being called by his grace, call upon his name, make a profession of his name, and serve and worship him: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him, yea, I have
made him;
all which is expressive of the power and grace of God, in the regeneration and conversion of his people; which is a creation, a formation, a making them for himself, for the glory of his grace, and to show forth his praise; and therefore he will gather them in, and bring them into a body together, into a church state, that this end may be answered. " John Gill


The Freewillers and Arminians oppose God in this Truth, by insisting that their wills had part in their being created His People, What utter Blasphemy and Arrogance !

beloved57
September 21st, 2011, 04:20 PM
Be careful man is not and God only He creates !

Contrary to the logical conclusions of those who believe in a freewill salvation, creation or new creation was not accomplished through offers of mercy. If Faith comes before New Birth or Regeneration, and they mean becoming a New Creation, then according to them, man's faith is the cause of becoming a new creature, and since creating work is only a work of God, for only God can Create, then man makes himself God !

some other dude
September 21st, 2011, 04:22 PM
Squeaky can give you directions on how to do it, step by step.

beloved57
March 10th, 2012, 05:22 PM
Jn 3:8

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

To be born again is not a command for people to go out and try to make themselves born again, by things they must do, for that is not what Jesus is Talking about. What Jesus is saying is that another you must be born again, a whole New Creation apart from Being born of the Flesh, or natural Childbirth. The you that we are by Nature, is not changed or altered, but an additional you, from another source must be born. You see, we must be born out of an incorruptible seed. The life we [The Elect] were given in Adam was out of an corruptible seed 1 Pet 1:23

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed[Adam], but of incorruptible[Christ], by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

However, in order to be born again there must be a Life that we already have in the Incorruptible Seed, which is The Word of God, or the Logos of God, who is Jesus Christ, the Seed Gal 3:16

16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

We must have had a seed substance Life or existence in Christ, as we had in Adam, to be born again of the Spirit. So Jesus in His conversation with Nicodemus was informing him, unless a man has a seminal[Spiritual] existence in the incorruptible seed [Christ], they shall not see or enter the kingdom of God. Folks the Spiritual Birth that John writes of in Jn 3, is in no way related to the flesh, its origin is out of a whole different realm Jn 3:6a

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

And what is really insane today is the false teaching that a Spiritual New Birth is a product of the flesh, the natural mans faith or his freewill or his decision causes it, in total contradiction to Jn 1:12-13

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

They are teaching that the right to become a Child of God was by the will of the flesh, but that right was not because of the will of the flesh or of man, but it was out of the Will of God ! The fact of the matter is this, we had no choice or say so in being born physically out of adam, nor out of Christ, if we belong to Christ !

beloved57
March 11th, 2012, 10:18 PM
Being born of the incorruptible seed, is being born out of Christ, being in or of His Seed. Christ is the Logos of God ! 1 Pet 1:23

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Jesus Christ was the Logos made Flesh Jn 1:1,14 and When He died and rose again, He had His Seed in Him. Now everyone belonging to that Seed is Born Again by the Resurrection of the Word of God, Jesus Christ from the Dead. 1 Pet 1:3

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Now notice how this is complemented . Being born again by incorruptible Seed, the Word of God.

Being Born Again here is the greek word anagennaō and it means:


to produce again, be born again, born anew

2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

Now this word is used again in 1 Pet 1:3

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

That confirms what 1 Pet 1:23 is saying, Being born out of the incorruptible Seed, who is the Lord Jesus Christ.

Now, one had to be seminally in Christ's Incorruptible Seed Substance to be born out of it, in the same manner they would have had to been seminally in Adam's Seed Substance to be born out of Him !

So New Birth is impossible without having been Chosen in Christ before the foundation [Eph 1:4], because thats when He received His Seed or generation, so believers were a Chosen Generation 1 Pet 2:9

But ye are a chosen generation or Offspring], a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

So Eph 1:4 and 1 Pet 2:9 complement one another Those Chosen in Christ before the foundation are the Chosen Generation of 1 Pet 2:9 !

beloved57
March 12th, 2012, 06:18 AM
If a person is born again by a decision of the will or the flesh, then they are born by the will of the flesh, of which conclusions clearly contradict Jn 1:13

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

alwight
March 12th, 2012, 06:51 AM
If a person is born again by a decision of the will or the flesh, then they are born by the will of the flesh, of which conclusions clearly contradict Jn 1:13

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Some theists here will argue for a body-soul dualism, for another realm beyond the material for the mind, not me of course. Perhaps they might then argue that the soul makes the decision to be born again, not the material body? What would you say to that I wonder?

beloved57
March 12th, 2012, 07:18 AM
alw


What would you say to that I wonder?

I'll say what I said, read post 54ff

alwight
March 12th, 2012, 12:25 PM
alw



I'll say what I said, read post 54ff

:liberals:

beloved57
March 16th, 2012, 10:58 AM
To be born again means that another you must be born, but this time out of a Incorruptible Seed. The Natural Life of the Elect came out of Corruptible seed, that is of Adam, but now, if we are to be saved, one must be born out of a Incorruptible Seed 1 Pet 1:23. Again, the Life the Elect had in Adam and developed and manifest in time was of a corruptible seed, however to be born again a second time of incorruptible seed, one must have Life already existing in the Incorruptible Seed, as they had Life already existing [in seed substance] in the corruptible seed. The Incorruptible Seed is the Word of God, the Logos, who is Jesus Christ. In order to be born out of the Logos, we must have had a seed substance In Him, a Life existence in Christ, as we did in adam.

So Jesus also in His discourse with nicodemus was informing him, unless a man has a seminal existence in Him, the Living Word, that Incorruptible Seed, they shall not see or enter into the Kingdom of God.

Folks the Spiritual Birth that John writes about in Jn 3 is no way related to the flesh, or any activity of the flesh, its origin is out of whole different realm Jn 3:6a, and what is really insane these days is that the false teaching of a Spiritual Birth is the product of a decision of a man of flesh, the natural mans freewill, in contradiction to Jn 1:13.

The Antichrist followers will always contradict scripture to promote their lies against the Truth, but they shall soon answer to God in the Judgment !

Cruciform
March 16th, 2012, 11:48 AM
Post #50 above.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

beloved57
March 16th, 2012, 10:21 PM
Squeaky can give you directions on how to do it, step by step.

I know right ? Lol..

Gurucam
March 17th, 2012, 09:22 AM
John 3:7

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

When Jesus told Nicodemus that except a man be born again he cannot see [perceive] the Kingdom of God as per vs 3

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

In essence, what Jesus meant, except ye are of that seed in Me, by being Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World [Eph 1:4] ye cannot see or understand the Kingdom of God, which is to include it's Gospel, The Gospel of the Kingdom or of the Kingdom of God. Matt 24:14

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


Mark 1:14

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Which are also the Kingdom Mysteries Luke 8:10

And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Now, even though Jesus was giving a condition " except ye be born again ", yet He was not giving a imperative or duty for one to perform to become born again; because there is nothing a person can do to be born; even if it was for us to go back into our mothers womb, [ which its not] how could we accomplish that ? Could we make ourselves fetuses again ? Would that be in our ability ?

But nevertheless, Christ meant what He said in stating that 'Ye must be born Again " !

Jesus spoke of a waxed gross heart. He said those whose hearts were waxed gross were not given to know the mysteries of God's kingdom.

These were everyone who Jesus encountered except His disciples. (re. Matthews: 13 verses: 10 to 16)

What is a waxed gross heart and how is this related to being 'born again'?

This seems important because one must be given to know the mysteries of God's kingdom before one can actually know the mysteries of God's kingdom. And one need to know the mysteries of God's kingdom in order to be saved and delivered.

beloved57
March 17th, 2012, 03:36 PM
Jesus spoke of a waxed gross heart. He said those whose hearts were waxed gross were not given to know the mysteries of God's kingdom.

These were everyone who Jesus encountered except His disciples. (re. Matthews: 13 verses: 10 to 16)

What is a waxed gross heart and how is this related to being 'born again'?

This seems important because one must be given to know the mysteries of God's kingdom before one can actually know the mysteries of God's kingdom. And one need to know the mysteries of God's kingdom in order to be saved and delivered.

Read the Thread !

Gurucam
March 19th, 2012, 03:26 AM
John 3:7

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

When Jesus told Nicodemus that except a man be born again he cannot see [perceive] the Kingdom of God as per vs 3

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

In essence, what Jesus meant, except ye are of that seed in Me, by being Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World [Eph 1:4] ye cannot see or understand the Kingdom of God, which is to include it's Gospel, The Gospel of the Kingdom or of the Kingdom of God. Matt 24:14

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.



The gospel of the kingdom of God is nothing in the O.T. and a very small amount of the things in the KJV N.T.

The gospel of the kingdom of God is seriously mistake to be the entire Bible. It is really only the gospel of un-circumcision which was committed only onto Paul.

When Jesus was physically on earth, it was given for only his disciples to know the mysteries of God's kingdom. If at all, at that time, these mysteries were delivered, they were delivered only to His disciples in very private session among only them and not delivered to anyone else (re. Matthews: 13 verses: 10 to 30)

It seem that (at the end of it all) only Paul received this gospel, directly from the Spirit of Jesus through his own heart or spirit and not in physically spoken or physically written words.

After Jesus physically left those precincts, Paul had communion with the regenerated the Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Jesus and this Spirit revealed the Gospel of un-circumcision to him through his own heart or spirit. This was the first revelation of the Gospel of un-circumcision to anyone in that area of earth and to anyone who has come up through the Moses-ian path way.

This gospel was committed onto only Paul. This is founded on righteousness of God without the law.

This is the gospel which must be published and made know in accuracy, totality and clarity in all land. This is the gospel of un-circumcision. It is not the entire Bible. It is the Bible freed of parables and free of guidance for the unaware and freed of Moses-ism whether original or revised. It is the purified Bible. The Gospel of God's kingdom of heaven is Truth and only Truth, in totality, accuracy and clarity.

I am called to this purpose, by God, in the body of Christ. Those who empower me will be among the chosen few.

Access to this gospel is gained only when one's hearts is not or no longer waxed gross (re. Matthews: 13 verses: 10 to 30).

Moving from having a heart that is waxed gross to having a heart that is not waxed gross is the act of becoming 'born again'. This is the act of awakening to (or becoming aware of) one's own heart or spirit. Then one can search one's heart or spirit to discern the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth which God sent into one's own heart or spirit (re. Galatians: 4 verses: 5 & 6), as Paul did. This Spirit passes all Truth, intuitively, privately and directly from within one's own heart or spirit and not through the physically spoken and physically written scriptures. The physically spoken and physically written scriptures does not deliver All Truth.

JonahofAkron
March 19th, 2012, 06:27 AM
The gospel of the kingdom of God is nothing in the O.T. and a very small amount of the things in the KJV N.T.

The gospel of the kingdom of God is seriously mistake to be the entire Bible. It is really only the gospel of un-circumcision which was committed only onto Paul.

When Jesus was physically on earth, it was given for only his disciples to know the mysteries of God's kingdom. If at all, at that time, these mysteries were delivered, they were delivered only to His disciples in very private session among only them and not delivered to anyone else (re. Matthews: 13 verses: 10 to 30)

It seem that (at the end of it all) only Paul received this gospel, directly from the Spirit of Jesus through his own heart or spirit and not in physically spoken or physically written words.

After Jesus physically left those precincts, Paul had communion with the regenerated the Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Jesus and this Spirit revealed the Gospel of un-circumcision to him through his own heart or spirit. This was the first revelation of the Gospel of un-circumcision to anyone in that area of earth and to anyone who has come up through the Moses-ian path way.

This gospel was committed onto only Paul. This is founded on righteousness of God without the law.

This is the gospel which must be published and made know in accuracy, totality and clarity in all land. This is the gospel of un-circumcision. It is not the entire Bible. It is the Bible freed of parables and free of guidance for the unaware and freed of Moses-ism whether original or revised. It is the purified Bible. The Gospel of God's kingdom of heaven is Truth and only Truth, in totality, accuracy and clarity.

I am called to this purpose, by God, in the body of Christ. Those who empower me will be among the chosen few.

Access to this gospel is gained only when one's hearts is not or no longer waxed gross (re. Matthews: 13 verses: 10 to 30).

Moving from having a heart that is waxed gross to having a heart that is not waxed gross is the act of becoming 'born again'. This is the act of awakening to (or becoming aware of) one's own heart or spirit. Then one can search one's heart or spirit to discern the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth which God sent into one's own heart or spirit (re. Galatians: 4 verses: 5 & 6), as Paul did. This Spirit passes all Truth, intuitively, privately and directly from within one's own heart or spirit and not through the physically spoken and physically written scriptures. The physically spoken and physically written scriptures does not deliver All Truth.

Do you ever write anything that doesn't have to do with getting rid of the Scriptures?

beloved57
March 19th, 2012, 06:58 AM
gur


The gospel of the kingdom of God is nothing in the O.T. and a very small amount of the things in the KJV N.T.

Do you understand the essence of what I am saying in the quote ? Please explain what I am saying !

Gurucam
March 19th, 2012, 07:23 AM
gur
Do you understand the essence of what I am saying in the quote ? Please explain what I am saying !

I perceived that post # 65 was spot on.

You quoted: "if one is not 'born again one cannot see the kingdom of God."

I agree with the above, it is scriptural.

You also quoted: "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world."

I also agree with the above, it is scriptural.

Being satisfied that those statement were scriptural, I then sought to address the common misunderstanding that people have about what is the Gospel of the kingdom of heaven by providing the exact verses in the KJV N.T. where it was identified and described.

I also sought to address the common misunderstanding that people have about what is to be 'born again' by giving the revelation in the KJV N.T. which confirms what it means to be 'born again.

It is no point enunciating that "if one is not 'born again one cannot see the kingdom of God." and "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world." if one's ideas about what is that Gospel is wrong and one is also misinform about what it means to be 'born again.

Isn't this, which is the essence of my post # 65, also the essence of your post.

You are making the point and supporting it with revelations from the KJV N.T., that one must be 'born again', in order see the kingdom of God. You are spot on with those guidance.

The underlying Truth is that the mysteries of God's kingdom cannot be delivered through physically spoken and physically written words. Any preaching of the Gospel of God's kingdom is simply to convey that one must become 'born again' and seek the mysteries of God's kingdom directly and intuitively from the Spirit through one's own heart or spirit. This is the only path to salvation and deliverance.

These can be and must be, obtained only intuitively and directly from the Spirit of Jesus through one's own heart or spirit. Fact is one must be born again in order to have access to one's own spirit and the Spirit of Truth within one's own spirit.

Being 'born again' is not about acquiring the Spirit as one's own spirit. It is about being led by this Spirit. It is not about loosing the essential identity of one's own spirit and replacing it with the Spirit. Becoming 'born again' is simply about become aware of one's own spirit so that one can then search one's own heart or spirit to discern precisely what the Spirit has in mind for one to pray fro, say and do and be led into all of one's works by that. This is to be Christian. This is how to be saved and delivered into God's kingdom of heaven.

May be I pedal my point too aggressively. I do apologize if you find that is so. However it will take a lot of effort to communicate these ideas which are at the very root of Truth which saves and delivers humans and which are not held or known in traditional Christianity.

Establishing these points seem to to be essentially to the base of your central point which is that, becoming 'born again' is something totally out side of one's control.

I cannot disagree with your central point if these basic things are not established in common grounding.

Fact is one is told by revelations in the KJV N.T., to search one's own heart to know what the Spirit has in mind for one to pray for say and so. This indicates the work that is related to being 'born again'.

There is something that one must do, as prescribed in the KJV N.T., in order to open the path way for becoming 'born again'.

Being 'born again' is necessary or related, to being given to know the mysteries of God's kingdom.

How does one become given to know the mysteries of God's kingdom? Matthews: 13 verses: 10 to 16 is a good place to start.

Do you perceive that 'God's kingdom' and 'the kingdom of heaven' is the same thing and why?

Another revelations which adds light is John: 16 verses: 7 to 14. It is the Spirit which delivers All Truth. This is where Paul got it.

beloved57
March 19th, 2012, 07:48 AM
gur


I perceived that post # 65 was spot on.

If you wanna comment on what I am saying, please reveiw posts 54,55, and 60 and then explain what my point is that you perceive, regardless if you agree with it. But you should be able to follow my reasoning !

Gurucam
March 19th, 2012, 10:59 AM
Jn 3:8

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

To be born again is not a command for people to go out and try to make themselves born again, by things they must do, for that is not what Jesus is Talking about. What Jesus is saying is that another you must be born again, a whole New Creation apart from Being born of the Flesh, or natural Childbirth. The you that we are by Nature, is not changed or altered, but an additional you, from another source must be born. You see, we must be born out of an incorruptible seed. The life we [The Elect] were given in Adam was out of an corruptible seed 1 Pet 1:23

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed[Adam], but of incorruptible[Christ], by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

However, in order to be born again there must be a Life that we already have in the Incorruptible Seed, which is The Word of God, or the Logos of God, who is Jesus Christ, the Seed Gal 3:16

16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

We must have had a seed substance Life or existence in Christ, as we had in Adam, to be born again of the Spirit. So Jesus in His conversation with Nicodemus was informing him, unless a man has a seminal[Spiritual] existence in the incorruptible seed [Christ], they shall not see or enter the kingdom of God. Folks the Spiritual Birth that John writes of in Jn 3, is in no way related to the flesh, its origin is out of a whole different realm Jn 3:6a

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

And what is really insane today is the false teaching that a Spiritual New Birth is a product of the flesh, the natural mans faith or his freewill or his decision causes it, in total contradiction to Jn 1:12-13

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

They are teaching that the right to become a Child of God was by the will of the flesh, but that right was not because of the will of the flesh or of man, but it was out of the Will of God ! The fact of the matter is this, we had no choice or say so in being born physically out of adam, nor out of Christ, if we belong to Christ !

Your conclusions seem confused.

If I simply take your first quote: Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Your opening point seem to be that this not a commandment from Jesus.

It is at least a declaration of fact.

A few verses down Jesus added to that first confirmation: "Except a man be born of water and of Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven."

This seems to suggest that first one is born of water (most of man's physical body is water). Then one must have a second birth where the body of this second birth is the fabric of Spirit.

Our first body is our natural body or physical body. Our spirit is our second body or inward man. We have both, always.

After physical birth one does not loose awareness of one's natural man.

However one can remain unaware of one's inward man which is also called our heart or spirit. This state where one is not aware of one's own inward man or spirit or heart is described as having a heart that is waxed gross (i.e. covered). It is also called being dead within. It is also called being 'the dead'.

The message is that our inward man or spirit is from heaven.

Our spirit or inward man conforms to precisely what the Spirit has in mind for us to pray for, say and do, in our life on earth, as discern within this very spirit or inward man.

This state of not being 'born again' is described every were in the KJV N.T. with the word 'dead'.

Jesus has also revealed things that killeth.

Therefore becoming 'born again' requires works for those who are not 'born again'. They must avoid or drop those things which killeth!

beloved57
March 19th, 2012, 11:12 AM
gur


Your conclusions seem confused.

If I simply take your first quote: Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Your opening point seem to be that this not a commandment from Jesus.

It is at least a declaration of fact.

You have failed to prove that you understand what I am saying within my posts, you give no analysis of the components the posts, you are too much in a hurry to give your opinion on things. Until you do that, I have nothing else for you, since you do not seem to grasp what's being said as to why one is Born Again ! I spent a lot of time showing that !

Gurucam
March 19th, 2012, 11:56 AM
[COLOR="Blue"]
gur



You have failed to prove that you understand what I am saying within my posts, you give no analysis of the components the posts, you are too much in a hurry to give your opinion on things. Until you do that, I have nothing else for you, since you do not seem to grasp what's being said as to why one is Born Again ! I spent a lot of time showing that !

Why go though all of that?

Why not simply say in simple words why one is 'born again'?

Then you can provide the KJV N.T. support if necessary.

Letters discernment kills my intuitive discernment.

beloved57
March 19th, 2012, 12:30 PM
gur


Why go though all of that?

I beg your pardon, I went through all of that to put there to make a point !

JonahofAkron
March 19th, 2012, 02:23 PM
[COLOR="Blue"]

Why go though all of that?

Why not simply say in simple words why one is 'born again'?

Then you can provide the KJV N.T. support if necessary.

Letters discernment kills my intuitive discernment.


You are ridiculous. Intuitive discernment?

Gurucam
March 20th, 2012, 03:24 AM
beloved57,

Bottom line is that, to be 'born again' is to be no longer 'dead'.

Becoming 'born again' requires works from those who are not 'born again'.

They must avoid or drop those things which killeth! They must also drop those things which does not give life. Jesus identified those things.

Jesus also identified what delivers All Truth. Those who seek to be 'born again' must seek out that thing which delivers All Truth.

Jesus also identified what giveth life. It is the seam thing that delivers All Truth.

Gurucam
March 20th, 2012, 03:31 AM
gur
I beg your pardon, I went through all of that to put there to make a point !

O.K.

State your point clearly then provide the proof.

To hide or even put, your point in a maze of letters, is to effectively kill any possibility of awakening anyone with your point.

This is precisely how the letter killeth. Your appraoch will effectively keep those who dwell on your letter 'un-born-again'

At this point in time, if you want to say things to those who are seeking to be born again, you must deliver accurately, totally and clearly.

Grosnick Marowbe
March 20th, 2012, 05:56 AM
John 3:7

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

When Jesus told Nicodemus that except a man be born again he cannot see [perceive] the Kingdom of God as per vs 3

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

In essence, what Jesus meant, except ye are of that seed in Me, by being Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World [Eph 1:4] ye cannot see or understand the Kingdom of God, which is to include it's Gospel, The Gospel of the Kingdom or of the Kingdom of God. Matt 24:14

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


Mark 1:14

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Which are also the Kingdom Mysteries Luke 8:10

And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Now, even though Jesus was giving a condition " except ye be born again ", yet He was not giving a imperative or duty for one to perform to become born again; because there is nothing a person can do to be born; even if it was for us to go back into our mothers womb, [ which its not] how could we accomplish that ? Could we make ourselves fetuses again ? Would that be in our ability ?

But nevertheless, Christ meant what He said in stating that 'Ye must be born Again " !

In order for someone to become "born again" they must place all their faith in Christ as Lord and Savior, be convicted, indwelt, and sealed, then placed into the "body of Christ" by the Holy Spirit......

beloved57
March 20th, 2012, 10:13 AM
gm


In order for someone to become "born again" they must place all their faith in Christ as Lord and Savior,

Thats a Lie and its works, and it is something the Natural Man cannot do !

beloved57
March 20th, 2012, 10:14 AM
gur


O.K.

State your point clearly then provide the proof.

Done that, I have told you what to do !

Grosnick Marowbe
March 20th, 2012, 12:08 PM
gur



If you wanna comment on what I am saying, please reveiw posts 54,55, and 60 and then explain what my point is that you perceive, regardless if you agree with it. But you should be able to follow my reasoning !

You're reasoning??? That's a laugh!!!!

chrysostom
March 20th, 2012, 12:10 PM
he is what they see when a Calvinist looks in a mirror

Gurucam
March 20th, 2012, 03:31 PM
beloved57,

Bottom line is that, to be 'born again' is to be no longer 'dead'.

Becoming 'born again' requires works from those who are not 'born again'.

They must avoid or drop those things which killeth! They must also drop those things which does not give life. Jesus identified those things.

Jesus also identified what delivers All Truth. Those who seek to be 'born again' must seek out that thing which delivers All Truth.

Jesus also identified what giveth life. It is the same thing that delivers All Truth.

Finally Jesus also identified where we find that thing which giveth life, delivers All Truth, saves and delivers one.

It in within our own individual hearts or spirits and not in any physically delivered words (whether these are spoken or written for example, the scriptures).

Gurucam
March 20th, 2012, 06:00 PM
gm
Thats a Lie and its works, and it is something the Natural Man cannot do !

You reply the above to:
gm

Quote:
In order for someone to become "born again" they must place all their faith in Christ as Lord and Savior,

Indeed one cannot have faith in anything if one is not first 'born again'.

Faith and love are things of one's heart.

To be not 'born again' is to have a heart which is waxed gross (i.e. to have a heart which is closed, blocked off from one's awareness or covered in 'wax'). This is also to be 'the dead'.

Those whose hearts are waxed gross cannot be aware of things like faith and love, for these arise and are sustained only within one's heart.

Also one cannot confess with one's mouth that Jesus is Lord and know in one's heart that God raised Him from the dead, if one has not first sough and captured God's kingdom within one's own heart.

Confessing with one's mouth is nonsense without knowing in one's heart. One whose heart is waxed gross cannot know anything in one's heart and so his or her mouth confession is nothing.

Seek ye first the kingdom of God which is within, then All things will be added.

beloved57
March 22nd, 2012, 07:35 AM
gur


beloved57,

Bottom line is that, to be 'born again' is to be no longer 'dead'.

Well that is certainly True, however to be born, one must first exist vitally in that which to be born out of !

The Elect existed vitally in Adam when He was Created, so they were born accordingly out of His Corruptible seed 1 Pet 1:23

Had not their physical lives already existed in Him , they could not have been brought forth or born in their generation.

So likewise, to be born spiritually, to make alive again, one had to exist vitally in Christ when He was Created before the World Began, and so they were Chosen in Him Eph 1:4, so they are born out of Christ that incorruptible seed in their generation 1 Pet 1:23.

There must be Life before that Life is brought forth. The Elect had Life in Adam, but before that they had Life in Christ the Word Jn 1:4

4In him[Christ the word] was life; and the life was the light of men.

beloved57
March 22nd, 2012, 09:33 PM
Jn 3:3-5

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

After New Birth, a Birth into the Spiritual Kingdom of God, Being born of the Spirit,now in possession of Spiritual Life, which now means in possession of Spiritual Eyes, Ears, and Heart to understand Spiritually. It is now the Elect are in a condition to do spiritually the commands of God and His Kingdom, to Repent, to Believe the Gospel, to see the Son and Believe on Him Jn 6:40

40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Yes, the seeing and Believing are Spiritual !

beloved57
March 28th, 2012, 06:32 AM
After one is born again, birthed into a Spiritual Kingdom of God, or God's Dear Son Col 1:13

13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: [which is accomplished by New Birth] Now born of the Spirit into the Kingdom of Grace, also now in possession of Spiritual Light and Life, they now have spiritual eyes that are open to spiritual things [1 Cor 2:12-13], they now have spiritual ears to hear spiritual tidings [ Eph 1:13], are given a spiritual heart to understand spiritual Truth [ Matt 13:23], one understands with their heart as indicated in Matt 13:15

For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Now after New Birth the Elect are in a suitable spiritual condition, to do spiritually the commands of God, to repent and to believe on Christ, to Love the brethren ! 1 Jn 3:23

23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Those Spiritual Kingdom laws, only those birthed into that Kingdom can and will comply !

beloved57
May 19th, 2012, 05:51 PM
That men are regenerated before God sends them the Gospel as the word of their Salvation, in order for them to believe and be saved, is taught in the scripture in many places. It is certainly implied here Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed[Gospel] into the good ground[New Birth] is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

It is good ground because it has been given a spiritual capacity by New Birth to understand the things of God, which the Gospel is ! The good ground is a good heart as per Lk 8:15

But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Now, if we are true to scripture teaching, by nature, no one has a good and honest heart, but one that is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked Jer 17:9

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

So, its proved from this that New Birth precedes the Gospel of Salvation !

But it is also Illustrated by Cornelius, who was regenerated or born again before God sent him the Gospel to believe through peter. Now how do we know that Cornelius was regenerated or born again ? Because scripture says about him as it said about Job, that he feared God ! Job 1:1

There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

Acts 10:1-2,22,35

There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,

2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Now when a person is said to fear God, that is a testimony of the Grace of God in them, that God hath wrought in them Jn 3:21

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

This is True because we men by nature have no fear of God before our eyes as per Rom 3:10-18

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Now who dare dispute what has been shown thus far from The Word of Truth ?

beloved57
May 19th, 2012, 07:33 PM
Yes, So Romans 3:10-18, those verses describe the unregenerate world of both jew and gentile, to deny or reject any of this is simply denying and rejecting God's Truth. Now if it's God's Testimony that Cornelius feared God, it is evident the God has wrought in him a New heart to fear Him. David prayed Ps 86:11

Teach me thy way, O LORD; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name.

It [ A Heart that fears God] is a Covenant Blessing Jer 32:39-40

And this was not Gospel Regeneration or synergism of any kind, because Cornelius had not yet heard nor believed the Gospel of his Salvation ! Now if by God's Word we have established that Cornelius was regenerate because he feared God, which man by nature cannot do, then our next proof of scripture states that it is to such that fear God, is this word of Salvation sent Acts 13:26

26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.

The word of Salvation is sent by God to those who shall hear it ! Rom 10:13-15

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Acts 28:28

Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

That is, His Regenerated Sheep among them as per Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

OMEGA
May 19th, 2012, 09:11 PM
Mt 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry,

but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Mr 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry,


but are as the angels which are in heaven.

Gurucam
May 20th, 2012, 12:15 AM
John 3:7

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

When Jesus told Nicodemus that except a man be born again he cannot see [perceive] the Kingdom of God as per vs 3

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

In essence, what Jesus meant, except ye are of that seed in Me, by being Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World [Eph 1:4] ye cannot see or understand the Kingdom of God, which is to include it's Gospel, The Gospel of the Kingdom or of the Kingdom of God. Matt 24:14

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


Mark 1:14

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Which are also the Kingdom Mysteries Luke 8:10

And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Now, even though Jesus was giving a condition " except ye be born again ", yet He was not giving a imperative or duty for one to perform to become born again; because there is nothing a person can do to be born; even if it was for us to go back into our mothers womb, [ which its not] how could we accomplish that ? Could we make ourselves fetuses again ? Would that be in our ability ?

But nevertheless, Christ meant what He said in stating that 'Ye must be born Again " !

You do not believe that seeking ye first the kingdom of God within your own heart can help one to be 'born again'

. . . . you do not believe that doing the works of seeking first the kingdom of God within your own heart can help one to be 'born again'

Don't you believe that you should seek and capture the kingdom of God within your heart first then seek it in scriptures?

. . . . seeking is works? Not so? This is works that one must do in order to capture the kingdom of God. Not so.

There is works to be done in order to come under Grace of God. Why do you blasphemy Jesus? You want to sit down and wait to get every thing? And you are encouraging every one to sit down and wait to get every thing.
.

Jesus instructed: Seek ye first the kingdom of heaven, within your own heart, then All things will be added.

Seem that you must initiate the first act, i.e. by seeking first the kingdom . . . .

'to seek ye first' means 'the first thing is you seek'

Seeking is works. Seeking is works you must do first in order capture the kingdom of God within your heart, this is the the same as coming under grace of God. Therefore to come under Grace of God you have to do the works of seeking first, the kingdom . . . . .

Remember the revelations: "seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be open onto thee". Seeking and knocking are works which one must do in order to come onto All things including, Grace of God. And this works is an inward intuitive search of one's own heart. This is not a search of scriptures.

You have to do this works (of seeking) first, then God will add All things.

If it was not incumbent for humans to make the first move (by doing works of seeking and knocking) then nothing would stop the good God from adding All thing to us freely.

Fact is if humans do not seek ye first, the kingdom of God within their own individual hearts, nothing (not Truth, not salvation, not deliverance, etc.) will come to them.

Seeking things in one's heart is big works which one must do to come under grace of God. . Do not be denying this Truth. . It is blasphemy of the Spirit to deny this Truth.

.
The mystery of the kingdom of God is that 'the kingdom of God' resides within the hearts or spirits of each human and they must discern it directly, individually and intuitively within their own hearts or spirit and not through their carnal or physical side through physically hearing or physically reading (re. 1 Corinthians: 2 verses: 9 to 14 and 2 Corinthians: 3 verse: 17).

This simple statement is the gospel which must be published in all land 'before the ends comes'. This is the gospel of un-circumcision which was committed onto Paul. This is the Gospel of Truth (it is without parables, ideals, laws, commandments, etc. which make up most of the Bible). The gospel which must be published in all land 'before the ends comes' is not the Bible.

Clearly your conclusions are erroneous and misleading, even Antichrist.

Do you see this? If yes, then repent and stop trying to teach aspiring Christians. Instead become a student, for now.

An uninformed teacher to aspiring Christians is a false prophet who came in Jesus' name. He misguides many who are called to him and hs church affiliate for Truth. The results? . . . . . many are called and the very great majority (all but a few) are misled, they err and do not make it.

What a legacy indeed.

Burning Bush
May 20th, 2012, 09:29 AM
:thumb: @ Beloved 57......I enjoyed a lot of what you've written here. It is born from above, for one very important reason: we go into the womb of the morning of our heavenly mother (NO, NOT Mary), by being CAUGHT UP.

beloved57
May 20th, 2012, 08:01 PM
:thumb: @ Beloved 57......I enjoyed a lot of what you've written here. It is born from above, for one very important reason: we go into the womb of the morning of our heavenly mother (NO, NOT Mary), by being CAUGHT UP.

Heavenly mother ? That is Blasphemy !

beloved57
May 20th, 2012, 08:05 PM
Mt 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry,

but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Mr 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry,


but are as the angels which are in heaven.


Do you understand what I posted in posts 87 and 88 ?

beloved57
May 20th, 2012, 08:25 PM
So God sends the Gospel as a message of Salvation to those who are fearing Him through New Birth Acts 13:26

26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.

Feareth God is in the present tense, those fearing God is the Gospel sent. Why ? It was sent to them that they should believe ! Acts 15:7

7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

Remember, Jesus has prayed for these already here Jn 17:20

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Note: When God sends the Gospel of Salvation to the heart that fears Him by New Birth, it is to them the Gospel of their Salvation Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

The fact that they are regenerated tells us why it is called the Gospel of their Salvation, because they are already in a saved state by New Birth Titus 3:5.

Also note this, although a person as Cornelius is already Born Again and saved in that sense, yet in another real sense he was not saved until he believed the Gospel; of which there is a Gospel Salvation referenced here in Acts 11:13-14

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

There is a Gospel Conversion Salvation, of those who are already saved by regeneration; So the saved shall be saved by the preaching of the Gospel to them, Paul's point in 1 Cor 1:21

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

In other words, Believing the Truth is a salvation, from error and delusions !

Eeset
May 20th, 2012, 09:16 PM
Please tell me what is so difficult about the concept of being born again. I believe Jesus. Literally I believe Jesus. Not some hokey malarkey about being instilled with this or that but literally being born again. God is not a God of the dead but of the living.

Burning Bush
May 20th, 2012, 09:18 PM
Heavenly mother ? That is Blasphemy !

:confused: Does anyone on this board ever consider what is said before casting labels around?

Galatians 4:26 KJV
But Jerusalem which is ABOVE is free, which is the MOTHER of us all.

SimplyHisSheep
May 21st, 2012, 12:18 AM
:confused: Does anyone on this board ever consider what is said before casting labels around?

Galatians 4:26 KJV
But Jerusalem which is ABOVE is free, which is the MOTHER of us all.

Yes, brothers and sisters we must be slow to anger and slow to speak... you never know... you could be speaking to a prophet.

beloved57
May 21st, 2012, 05:23 AM
:confused: Does anyone on this board ever consider what is said before casting labels around?

Galatians 4:26 KJV
But Jerusalem which is ABOVE is free, which is the MOTHER of us all.

Explain what you mean ?

beloved57
May 27th, 2012, 05:00 PM
2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

The Sanctification of the Spirit is the same Divine Work as the Justification of the Spirit of 1 Cor 6:11

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Through His Work, the Spirit, The Work of God The Spirit, the Elect are enabled and caused to believe and embrace the truth, and that becomes their manifest Salvation or manifest Justification ! It [The sanctification of the Spirit] is also synonymous with the New Birth !

Princely
May 27th, 2012, 10:15 PM
No one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born from above. No one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and spirit. Flesh makes flesh spirit makes spirit.

God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.

Father your word is truth.


It is written;

They shall be my people and I shall be their God. One heart and one way is what I shall give them so they shall revere me always for their own good and the good of their children after them.

This is the covenant I shall make with them. My spirit which is upon you and my words which I have put into your mouth shall never leave your mouth nor the mouth of your children nor the mouth of your children's children from now on and forever."

The one who comes from above is above all; He who is of the world belongs to the world and speaks in a worldly way. The one who comes from heaven is above all. He testifies to what he has seen and heard, yet no one accepts his testimony. Whoever accepts his testimony certifies that God is truthful. The One whom is sent by God, He speaks the words of God. His gift of the spirit is not rationed. The Father loves the Son and has given everything over to him. Whoever believes in the Son possesses eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure the wrath of God.

Gods bread comes down from heaven and gives life to the world. I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst.
Everything that the Lord gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me, because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me.

Those are not my words but the words of the Lord who sent me. I do nothing on my own I only say what the Lord has taught me for the one who sent me is with me He has not deserted me because I always do what pleases Him. I do nothing on my own ,the Lord who sent me commanded me what to say and how to speak and since I know His commandment is eternal life, what i say is spoken just as He instructed me.

Anyone who drinks the water I give him will never become thirsty, the water I give him will be like a fountain inside him rising up to provide eternal life.

No one has gone up to heaven except the one who came down from there the son of man.

I am son of man.

beloved57
May 28th, 2012, 03:54 AM
There is no doubt in my mind that Nicodemus was an Elect of God because scripture indicates later that he became a believer ! Jesus said to him, knowing of course that he was one of His Sheep that He was about to give His Life for this Jn 3:1-7

There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

There is a message to be conveyed to all for whom Christ died, but it is not a carnal message, a message of this worlds origin, but a spiritual one !

And the Elect of God , for them to be able to see it, hear it and know of the things of the Spirit of God, such as the Gospel of their Salvation, the voice of the their Shepherd or Heavenly Bridegroom, they must be born from above.

Now the analogy can be taken from the first birth into this our natural world, before birth, they neither see nor hear or know anything of the natural world to which they shall be born, and so likewise, before they are born of the Spirit, they cannot see, hear or know anything of that Spiritual Kingdom they are to be born, hence they must be already born into it that Spiritual Kingdom to see [perceptively] or hear [perceptively] the Gospel of that Kingdom. Remember Jesus calls it the word of the Kingdom Matt 13:19

When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

The New Birth into that Kingdom Spiritually, is imperative before the Elect can hear Spiritually and Understand spiritually as indicated in Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Please notice the difference from the hearer of vs 19 and the one of vs23, what is the difference Jesus points out ?

The one in vs 23 who hears also understands the word of the kingdom ! Why is that ? Jn 3 gives us our answer Jn 3:3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

The word see here is the greek word eidō and means:


to know, i.e. get knowledge of, understand, perceive

So evidently the one in Matt 13:23 who understands the word of the Kingdom preached unto him or her, had to be born again into the Kingdom of God, a Spiritual Kingdom !

And that is why the Elect must be born Again, to hear and understand the Gospel of their Salvation Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard[Spiritually] the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

beloved57
May 29th, 2012, 10:11 PM
If man had the ability in the flesh to do something that caused his salvation, then why the imperative necessity from the Saviour that one must be born again ?

beloved57
May 30th, 2012, 12:33 AM
The Application of Redemption is the New Birth, a New Life. When Jesus says that if I be lifted up, shall draw all men unto me, He is speaking of the Application of His Atoning Death, which causes all for whom He died to be begotten again by His Glorious Resurrection 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

It,s also what Paul terms the Power of His Resurrection Phil 3:10

10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

Jn 12:32

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Drawing is just another way of saying New Birth or Regeneration, for drawing is one of the properties of the New Birth !

The word draw is the greek word helkō and means:


to draw, drag off

2) metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

Jesus is using it here in the metaphorical sense, In that by New Birth, putting His Spirit in us, He causes us to be lead by Him. Its like here Jn 10:3

To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

The english word for draw also means:


to bring toward oneself or itself, as by inherent force or influence; attract:

Inward and inherent are the same and denote:

existing in someone or something as a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute:

In other words, the New Birth, the indwelling of the Spirit, the unction we now have, shall abide with us forever ! John says Jn 14:17

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Yes, the Spirit of God is the Application of Christ's Redemption Work, and that is why immediately after His Victorious Death and Resurrection and Ascension He did receive from the Father this Acts 2:33

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Yes, The Holy Ghost completes and makes Effectual the Saving Death of Christ by giving them New Birth as Per Titus 3:5-6

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

The shed on us abundantly is the application of Redemption !

beloved57
June 11th, 2012, 06:18 AM
Isa 44:3

For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:

Jn 3:5

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Being born of water and of the Spirit is no different from what Jesus stated in vs 3 Jn 3:3,6,8 and that is being born of the Spirit !

Now false religion has corrupted the words of the Saviour and have introduced the false notion that water here means water baptism, a sort of water baptism regeneration from actual literal water ! However when Jesus speaks of being born of the water, its merely further clarification of being born of the Spirit, because of the Spirit's Purifying and cleansing effect, in the washing of regeneration and His Renewing Titus 3:5-6

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

And that is why Paul says right after describing the Holy Spirit's merciful Saving Work of Regeneration and Renewal, that He [The Spirit] had been poured out on them abundantly vs 6

6 Which he shed or poured on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

The word shed or pour is key and denotes Water being poured. The Pouring of the Spirit as water on Christ's seed Isa 44:3

3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:

Jesus in John 3 is actually referring to an OT Prophecy, Nicodemus being a Teacher of the Law should have been familiar with Ezk 36:25

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

And also Isa 44:3, of which all these OT Prophecies connect together about Regeneration and Spiritual Cleansing, the Blessed effects of Christ's Finished Covenant Work of the Cross ! Of course Jesus did know that Nicodemus Ignorance was due to the fact that his understanding of the scriptures had yet to be opened as Jesus will do to all His True Disciples as here Lk 24:44-45

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Without this Work of Christ upon our Minds by His Spirit, we shall never Understand the Scriptures ! And so it is with this Deadly Teaching of water baptism salvation or regeneration, the only hope of deliverance from this demonic error is that they themselves become born again, which is absolutely out of their control !

meshak
June 11th, 2012, 06:38 AM
Readers,

We are not born again if we refuse to obey Jesus' commandments by saying you cannot earn salvation by works (obeying) Jesus.

meshak
June 11th, 2012, 06:41 AM
Please tell me what is so difficult about the concept of being born again. I believe Jesus. Literally I believe Jesus. Not some hokey malarkey about being instilled with this or that but literally being born again. God is not a God of the dead but of the living.

They dont know what they are talking about. They just pretend they know by lengthy and complicated posts that no one wants to read.

TomO
June 11th, 2012, 08:07 AM
They dont know what they are talking about. They just pretend they know by lengthy and complicated posts that no one wants to read.

...as opposed to your incoherent babbling idiocy. :Plain:

beloved57
June 12th, 2012, 07:43 AM
Regeneration or New Birth is the Spiritual Application and implantation of that Spiritual Life as a result of being quickened together with Christ, when He was Raised [As our Surety and Head] from the Dead Eph 2:6

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

The word raised synegeirō and means:

to raise together, to cause to raise together

2) to raise up together from mortal death to a new and blessed life dedicated to God

So the New Birth in Time is the evidence of all whom were in Christ when He rose as their Surety from the Dead. Hence we are Born Again by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the Dead 1 Pet 1:3


3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Before this, we are spiritually dead Eph 2:5

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

And this is what it means to be Saved by Grace, to be given a New Birth because of the Resurrection of Christ from the Dead as Our Federal Head and Shepard, who gave His Life for the Sheep !

Cruciform
June 12th, 2012, 12:04 PM
Regeneration or New Birth is the Spiritual Application and implantation of that Spiritual Life as a result of being quickened together with Christ, when He was Raised [As our Surety and Head] from the Dead Eph 2:6
Addressed here (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2769727&postcount=1).



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

beloved57
June 24th, 2012, 05:50 PM
1 Pet 1:3


3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

This being begotten again means being born again, anew 1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

This being born again or begotten again by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead means that because He lives after death, all who He died and rose again must live also Jn 14:19; 1 Cor 15:22, this because He lived and died as their Federal Head and Surety Representative, and for that, all whom He represented must partake and do partake of His Resurrection See Phil 3:10. All for whom He died and rose again in behalf of have a title to it. Also in light of that it is written Rom 5:19b

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Being made Righteous here is Experientially Righteous, just as by the disobedience of the one [Adam] the many were made experientially sinners ! We become experientially righteous by New Birth !

The word made above as in made righteous is the greek word kathistēmi and does mean:


to constitute, to render, make, cause to be

To make Righteous, the word make means:

to bring into existence by shaping or changing material, combining parts

to produce; cause to exist or happen; bring about

to cause to be or become; render

And so through Christ's one act of obedience the may He died for shall be caused to be righteous, constituted righteous which carries the idea of being created Eph 4:24

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

All for whom Christ died shall be by New Birth from partaking of His Resurrection created into this New Man, created in Righteousness and True Holiness, Thank God for His Unspeakable Gift of Jesus Christ !

beloved57
June 25th, 2012, 05:46 PM
When God gives the New Heart in New Birth, He is giving these things as well

Ezk 36:26

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

The word heart here is the word leb and means:


inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding

a) inner part, midst

1) midst (of things)

2) heart (of man)

3) soul, heart (of man)

4) mind, knowledge, thinking, reflection, memory

5) inclination, resolution, determination (of will)

6) conscience

7) heart (of moral character)

8) as seat of appetites

9) as seat of emotions and passions

10) as seat of courage

The same word is translated understanding here Prov 6:32

32 But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.

As wisdom here Job 36:

5 Behold, God is mighty, and despiseth not any: he is mighty in strength and wisdom.

Its translated Mind Num 16:28

28 And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the Lord hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind.


So in New Birth He gives as a Gift of Grace a New Heart which means New Will, Understanding, Affections , Mind and other Faculties, that is needed to Live a New Life unto the Glory of God, to begin with Faith and Repentance, which is a change of mind !

Eeset
June 25th, 2012, 10:17 PM
Born again means exactly that. Forget all the obfuscation. It means reincarnation.

Cruciform
June 25th, 2012, 11:05 PM
Born again means exactly that. Forget all the obfuscation. It means reincarnation.
Jesus and his apostles were Jewish. The notion of reincarnation would hardly have been believed or taught by any 1st-century Jew. Rather, Jesus and the apostles taught resurrection, a wholly different idea.

Jesus' phrase "born again" has nothing to do with the afterlife. If you want to know what it actually refers to, see here (http://www.catholic.com/tracts/are-catholics-born-again) and here (http://www.catholic.com/tracts/born-again-in-baptism).

Be well.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Eeset
June 25th, 2012, 11:13 PM
Jesus and his apostles were Jewish. The notion of reincarnation would hardly have been believed or taught by any 1st-century Jew. Rather, Jesus and the apostles taught resurrection, a wholly different idea.

Jesus' phrase "born again" has nothing to do with the afterlife. If you want to know what it actually refers to, see here (http://www.catholic.com/tracts/are-catholics-born-again) and here (http://www.catholic.com/tracts/born-again-in-baptism).

Be well.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
You mirror the very words of Nicodemus. How can this be?

TruthSetsFree
June 26th, 2012, 04:31 PM
in Jn 3:1

it speaks of baptism

and says

baptism... now SAVES

Cruciform
June 26th, 2012, 04:42 PM
You mirror the very words of Nicodemus. How can this be?
Answered in the brief articles cited in Post #113.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

beloved57
July 2nd, 2012, 05:08 PM
Ps 9:10

10 And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, Lord, hast not forsaken them that seek thee.

Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

It seems this scripture Ps 9:10 gives us to understand that a Knowledge of God or Christ is a qualification in order for one to put their Trust in His Name or in Him; but the knowledge comes as a fruit of the New Birth Heb 8:11

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Jer 31:34

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

beloved57
July 2nd, 2012, 07:36 PM
2 Cor 7:9-10

Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Now Godly Repentance or Sorrow must come from a Godly Source, The New Birth is that source. New Birth is that Sovereign giving of a Godly Principle that disposes one unto actions that are Godly, Holy, and well pleasing unto God by Jesus Christ; Without whom we can do nothing of any Spiritual good ! For faith and repentance are the principle actings of the New Birth, which is a communication of the Life of God in the Soul. If man of the flesh can perform such godly actions, what needs be for the New Birth, the New Heart ? All one has to do is continue in such well doing in the flesh !

beloved57
July 10th, 2012, 09:27 AM
What many in organized religion do not understand is that New Birth is a promise New Covenant Blessing. Here it is stated Jer 31:33

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Yes, the promise is here clearly stated, that God will given New Birth to all for whom Christ died for, because He satisfied by His Blood all the conditions of the New Covenant that procured for them a New Life dedicated to God ! Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament or covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

When God says " I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, He is speaking of the components of New Birth !

This is why all for whom Christ died, by His Resurrection they shall be begotten again ! 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

The word begotten again means:

to produce again, be born again, born anew

2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

New Birth must be effected by the Blood of the Covenant for the many it was shed for Matt 26:28

beloved57
July 24th, 2012, 07:54 AM
The New Birth and Regeneration are distinct, but yet they go hand in hand and cannot be really divided. One is a Noun in scripture, a Place in Christ, that is Regeneration, and the other is the Effect of being in that Place, New Birth !

The fact is this, everyone Christ died for, His Body the Church Eph 5:23-25

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body.

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Has been or are Regenerated, or in the Regeneration ! Its a Place ! Matt 19:28

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

beloved57
August 5th, 2012, 01:31 AM
That the Hope we receive from the New Birth by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead as Per 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

That this Hope is the same as Faith, is because we could not Hope [Spiritual Hope] for Eternal Things as Per Col 1:23

23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

They are joined together here 1 Pet 1:21

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Because the Gospel brings to Faith's Eye, things we hope for that are naturally unseen, so Faith is the Substance of things Hoped for, the evidence of things not seen, of which Christ Himself set forth in the Gospel Hope is Unseen 1 Pet 1:7-8

7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

It takes that New Birth to See and Rest in a Unseen Christ, who is spiritually set forth in the Gospel Gal 3:1

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

beloved57
January 14th, 2013, 04:48 PM
Jn 3:3,7

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

That word born again in the greek is γεννάω-
ἄνωθεν and means: I beget, bring forth, give birth to

from above, from the beginning, again


So its actually being given birth from above !

And its meaning is given birth from Him that is above Col 3:1

If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.


In other words, that is where being born again comes from, from the Risen Christ who sitteth on the Right Hand of God.

Now one of the mistakes of false religionists, is that of their failure to understand the New Birth. For the most part, all religionists believe and teach that man plays a part in being born again from above, that man plays an active part in a spiritual birth and or that new birth concerns the sin nature, that some kind of way the sin nature is born again,however these are delusions and lies.

In the New Birth, a New and Distinct Nature is Created or begotten Eph 4:24

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

And this New Creation entity is added to the Old Nature of flesh, which is flesh Jn 3:6

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

This is Two Separate entities Gal 5:16-17

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


The Person having been born again is now joined to and exists in each distinct nature,and this without altering his former personality, but yet there is an adaptation of his individuality into submission to the New Creation or Nature, so Paul can say, put off the Old Man and Put on the New Man !

Understanding this confounds those who say they live a sinless life, and those who teach lost of salvation because of sin, for the New Creation cannot sin because born of God !

skinker
January 14th, 2013, 05:33 PM
Paul had no idea what "born again" meant because he wasn't privy to the whole baptist spiritual consecration lineage of kings and high priests that Jesus was part of. Thus no Pauline Christians know what "born again" refers to, as they rely on Paul's lack of knowledge and guess work about "natural man" vs. "spiritual" man hokey b.s. swallowed by millions of Pauline clones.

You see God led me to discover the original Celestial Torah (http://biomystic.org/celestialtorah.htm) spiritual knowledge of God the Father and the Sign of Man from which the whole Messiah/Christ/Anointed One theology rests. And this Messiah/Christ/Anointed One theology is far older than the Bible which now cannot be used for any spiritual authority because of the Armageddon/Megiddo findings. Born again refers to putting on the Mantle of Aquarius, putting on the Man Sign in the heavens who holds the Living Waters as this is the Christ/Messiah heavenly Sign that rides in the "clouds of heaven" which are not clouds of earth but the Milky Way. If Paul knew about the astrological connection he would have talked about it but there's not a hint of his knowledge of it, only a tiny remnant of astrological lore known to him with his mentioning of knowing a man taken up to the "third heaven" which is one of the seven concentric shell "heavens" stacked on on top of the other above an earth-centered cosmos.

The Jewish priesthoods deliberately divorced astrological connection to their borrowed theology taken from several pagan sources, many from Egypt, because living in tents and mud brick hovels they Jewish priesthoods could not hope to compete with the professional astrologers like the Magi with their access to established astrological computation devices built into the monumental temples and pyramids. So instead of using the universal astrological systems directly they used them for story telling like the ancients but embedded the astrological lore in "Word of God" Scripts that they wrote and therefore could control while they had no control over the stars, moon, sun or planets. Paul dragging Christianity back into the Jewish foundation where Jesus split it off, made Pauline Christians as ignorant of the astrological basis for bible stories as he was and as ignorant of the astrological meaning of being "born again" (http://biomystic.org/astromeanbornagain2.htm), like all of you using Paul as reference not knowing anything at all about the astrological connection.

Cruciform
January 14th, 2013, 05:40 PM
Paul had no idea what "born again" meant because he wasn't privy to the whole baptist spiritual consecration lineage of kings and high priests that Jesus was part of.
Incorrect, since Paul himself wrote in his canonical documents about "new birth/regeneration" (Titus 3:5).



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

skinker
January 14th, 2013, 05:53 PM
Incorrect, since Paul himself wrote in his canonical documents about "new birth/regeneration" (Titus 3:5).



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Cruciform, Paul cannot be used for any spiritual authority because God didn't give Paul the wisdom to question the Jewish myths he took for granted as real history. Armageddon has come at Megiddo for all Pauline Christians following the Bible which is now thoroughly debunked as a historical record with the archeological evidence found at Megiddo (named after the Canaanite Divine Assembly called "Armageddon" in Greek). No archeological presence of Hebrews in Canaan/Palestine before 700 BC can be found which means all the Bible stories tracing Hebrews back to Abraham and Moses and David and Solomon, all bogus myths of origin meaning the Bible writers were liars and told lies. There is no spiritual authority derived from liars and lies.

Pauline Christianity swallowed the Jewish Bible stories and thus Pauline Christianity faces its End Times along with Judaism and Muhammad's Islam, all using the Bible stories as foundation.

Only the Gnostic Christian path is spiritually valid as it never was Bible centered and actually rejected the Jewish Fraud of Israel. I've known for over 33 years now that the Bible could not be used as spiritual authority because God told me so in my original religious conversion experience of Gnosis of God.

Cruciform
January 14th, 2013, 06:00 PM
Cruciform, Paul cannot be used for any spiritual authority because God didn't give Paul the wisdom to question the Jewish myths he took for granted as real history. Armageddon has come at Megiddo for all Pauline Christians following the Bible which is now thoroughly debunked as a historical record with the archeological evidence found at Megiddo (named after the Canaanite Divine Assembly called "Armageddon" in Greek). No archeological presence of Hebrews in Canaan/Palestine before 700 BC can be found which means all the Bible stories tracing Hebrews back to Abraham and Moses and David and Solomon, all bogus myths of origin meaning the Bible writers were liars and told lies. There is no spiritual authority derived from liars and lies. Pauline Christianity swallowed the Jewish Bible stories and thus Pauline Christianity faces its End Times along with Judaism and Muhammad's Islam, all using the Bible stories as foundation. Only the Gnostic Christian path is spiritually valid as it never was Bible centered and actually rejected the Jewish Fraud of Israel. I've known for over 33 years now that the Bible could not be used as spiritual authority because God told me so in my original religious conversion experience of Gnosis of God.
Wow. You are way out beyond Pluto, aren't you. Unfortunately, I simply do not accept the opinions of your chosen man-made anti-Catholic sectarian tradition which, being what it is, possesses no doctrinal authority whatsoever. :nono:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

skinker
January 14th, 2013, 06:08 PM
Wow. You are way out beyond Pluto, aren't you. Unfortunately, I simply do not accept the opinions of your chosen man-made anti-Catholic sectarian tradition which, being what it is, possesses no doctrinal authority whatsoever. :nono:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

You mean I don't bow down before a paper and ink word Idol like you think is the mark of a Christian believer? Silly you who didn't read Jesus' words about people following the doctrines of men vs. those of God. And if you really think doctrines of men are Word of God then explain why the Word of God led Jews to expect another Davidic Messiah, and not Jesus Christ? Then explain how Hebrews writing in the 700's BC but claiming history going back more than a thousand years prior, are telling the truth that God's record in stone and earth doesn't match?

Cruciform
January 14th, 2013, 06:14 PM
You mean I don't bow down before a paper and ink word Idol like you think is the mark of a Christian believer? Silly you who didn't read Jesus' words about people following the doctrines of men vs. those of God. And if you really think doctrines of men are Word of God then explain why the Word of God led Jews to expect another Davidic Messiah, and not Jesus Christ? Then explain how Hebrews writing in the 700's BC but claiming history going back more than a thousand years prior, are telling the truth that God's record in stone and earth doesn't match?
Thanks for merely proving my point in Post #126. Moving on...



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Sherman
January 14th, 2013, 08:52 PM
Cruciform, Paul cannot be used for any spiritual authority because God didn't give Paul the wisdom to question the Jewish myths he took for granted as real history.Oh really? Do you honestly think folks on this forum are going to buy this rot? This is something you trumped up out of your head. I've seen the balderdash on your website. At least you are not link dropping anymore. I have read material from other gnostics. They don't Bible bash like you.

Armageddon has come at Megiddo for all Pauline Christians following the Bible which is now thoroughly debunked as a historical record with the archeological evidence found at Megiddo (named after the Canaanite Divine Assembly called "Armageddon" in Greek). No archeological presence of Hebrews in Canaan/Palestine before 700 BC can be found which means all the Bible stories tracing Hebrews back to Abraham and Moses and David and Solomon, all bogus myths of origin meaning the Bible writers were liars and told lies. There is no spiritual authority derived from liars and lies. It looks like you have come to this board with an agenda. That agenda is going to make you one of the most disliked posters. One time Freelight gave you some advice about toning down your rhetoric. I suggest you take it. All views are welcome here, but this is a conservative Christian site and you have to remember who's house party this is. Paul and Bible bashing will wear out your welcome.

Pauline Christianity swallowed the Jewish Bible stories and thus Pauline Christianity faces its End Times along with Judaism and Muhammad's Islam, all using the Bible stories as foundation.Wrong. It will be your idiot theology that will face its end times. So far you are the only person I have ever met that promotes this tripe. How many Pauline Christians are there--- Hmmmm?

Only the Gnostic Christian path is spiritually valid as it never was Bible centered and actually rejected the Jewish Fraud of Israel. I've known for over 33 years now that the Bible could not be used as spiritual authority because God told me so in my original religious conversion experience of Gnosis of God.Utterly ridiculous, stupid, moronic. Your elevator obviously doesn't go ding. Did you leave your brains at the bus stop? That is all to easy to infer reading something like this. :kook:

skinker
January 14th, 2013, 11:01 PM
Name-calling, slander, these are the tools of school-yard nine-year-olds and they mean nothing to anyone who looks at your complete lack of addressing any of the historical facts that back my Christian belief system while yours is going down the End Times tubes because God was never with Paul and Pauline Christianity. God was with us Gnostic Christians who knew better than to use the Bible as foundation for Christian beliefs. My Christian beliefs are anchored in the heavens.

As for Freelight's "advice", he's not a Gnostic because he's forgotten one of the primary concerns of Gnostics which that spiritual authenticity can only come from direct spiritual relationship with God. Freelight's into Hinduism's guru/Masters system which contains all the problems of spiritual confusion found in the Tower of Babel example of too many voices of God competing for attention. And he lasts here precisely because he's willing to kow tow to conservative Pauline Christians who own and run this forum. Me, I lock horns with Knight and challenge him to censor or ban me for posting modern Gnostic Christianity because it's always more important to me to be able to express mine or anybody's religious beliefs honestly with no forum owners or monitors playing god with other people's beliefs and opinions. And if you happen to read the Bible you might discover that my kind are notorious for not abiding by any man's decisions or opinions when they are working as prophesy bearers for God.

"And so it was, at noon, that Elijah mocked them and said, "Cry aloud for he is a god; either he is meditating, or he is busy, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is sleeping and must be awakened!" This, the Spirit of Elijah, is what Freelight wants to extinguish lest it shake up the meditating gods he confuses Christ with.

beloved57
March 25th, 2013, 05:47 AM
Something to know about the New Birth ! New Birth is not the cause of Life, but Life is the cause of the New Birth. For Birth is nothing but the advancement of Life already began, which life is the product of quickening. Quickening gives Life, and The New Birth makes it manifest. For instance, when a Child is born or birthed into this world, its not the beginning of its life, however it is being manifested or brought to light in its new Physical environment, BUT the Life itself is a Miracle Production of God Himself, and from that point it begins its advancement unto an actual Birth. The generator of the Life is the Father, which is Christ, the Head of His Seed, and so gives it Life 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The word quickening here is zōopoieō:

to produce alive, begat or bear living young

2) to cause to live, make alive, give life

a) by spiritual power to arouse and invigorate

b) to restore to life

c) to give increase of life: thus of physical life

d) of the spirit, quickening as respects the spirit, endued with new and greater powers of life

3) metaph., of seeds quickened into life, i.e. germinating, springing up, growing

Remember how it is said that so and so beget so and so Gen 5:3

3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

So in this sense Jesus begets His Seed. The Word Father means:

father of an individual

2) of God as father of his people

3) head or founder of a household, group, family, or clan

4) ancestor

a) grandfather, forefathers -- of person

b) of people

5) originator or patron of a class, profession, or art

6) of producer, generator (fig.)

7) of benevolence and protection (fig.)

8) term of respect and honour

9) ruler or chief (spec.)

And so Christ is the Head of His Church, He gives it Life 1 Cor 15:45

And Just as Seth was in Adam's loins in order for Adam to beget him, Then all those Born Again/New Birth had their origin in the Loins of Christ, their Head !

So New Birth is linked to Election in Christ Eph 1:4 !

chrysostom
March 25th, 2013, 05:53 AM
are only the elect born again?

beloved57
March 25th, 2013, 07:39 AM
are only the elect born again?

Please rehearse with me all the points I made in Post 131, to see if you understand them, though you may not agree with them !

chrysostom
March 25th, 2013, 03:35 PM
are only the elect born again?


Please rehearse with me all the points I made in Post 131, to see if you understand them, though you may not agree with them !

why can't you just answer the question?

beloved57
March 25th, 2013, 03:47 PM
chry


why can't you just answer the question?

Why cant you rehearse with me all the points I made in Post 131, to see if you understand them, though you may not agree with them !

TruthSetsFree
March 27th, 2013, 10:03 AM
I've read the whole Bible

heard it read to me also

every day for many years (daily Mass)

so i can answer your Q

uh... whatever it was...

beloved57
March 27th, 2013, 12:01 PM
tsf


I've read the whole Bible
Are you ready to discuss post 131 now ?

beloved57
June 3rd, 2013, 09:22 AM
James 1:18

18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

The New Birth that the Elect experience in time by means of the word of Truth[The Gospel], its a producing of God's own Eternal Will Eph 1:11

In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Its Blasphemy to suggest in any way that New Birth results because of what the creature does. Also the believing of the Truth is part of that process of God bringing us forth, for believing the Truth is culminative of having been brought forth; For the creatures will does not determine God's will, but God's will determines the creatures will.

Also that's why when it comes to Salvation, why the Gospel is to be preached, that it should, according to His Will, bring forth and make manifest the New Birth.

beloved57
July 10th, 2013, 01:41 AM
Jn 3:7

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Jesus here speaking to Nicodemus says that it is needful, essential,its what must happen, and its inevitable.

Now its all that if Christ died for one ! This New Birth is only proper and appropriate for all that He died. This is True because all for whom He died has been Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Which means declared Righteous or made Righteous Like Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

So its incumbent upon the Spirit [For Christ's Death sake] to make them Righteous inherently or constitutionally so.

The word made is the greek word kathistēmi which means:

to set down as, constitute, to declare, show to be

d) to constitute, to render, make, cause to be

So those declared Judicially Righteous by the obedience of Christ, His Death, must be made constitutionally Righteous which is by New Birth, New Creation, Bring into existence a New Life.

This can also be called imparted Righteousness, which synchronizes their practical lives with their legal state before God based upon Christ's Blood.

Understand, its the same principle whereas in adam they were made sinners legally then constitutionally sinners by natural birth, so constitutional Righteousness must follow legal Righteousness to accord and agree, this is imparted Righteousness or New Birth.

beloved57
September 19th, 2013, 10:12 AM
The New Birth is actually equivalent to a Spiritual Resurrection from the dead, this is true, and in stating it again, it should be understood that the will of man does not contribute to it at all Jn 1:13

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

man contributes no more in the New Birth or Spiritual Resurrection from the dead, for this reason , man's condition before resurrection is that he is dead, just as Lazarus was dead before he was resurrected to life, remember Jesus words right before Jn 11:14

14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

And so it is with each human being naturally, having died in Adam, until we experience Spiritual Resurrection, the Spirit finds us dead in sin, and separated from the life of God Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

That is the essence of Spiritual Death, alienation from the Life of God, the word alienation means:

to be shut out from one's fellowship and intimacy

And just as Lazarus could not act until after life was given, the same as quickening in Eph 2:5, man cannot act until after the Spirit quickening or giving them Life from the dead. Jn 6:63 !

David understood this, that man cannot call upon the Name of the Lord until quickened Ps 80:18

18 So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.

Now this Life or quickening the Spirit gives us is through Christ, because as our risen Saviour, He has become a Life giving Spirit 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening or life giving Spirit.

The word quickening here means to:

to cause to live, make alive, give life !

Christ through His Resurrection became a Life giving Spirit, for the implantation/impartation of Life for all whom He died Jn 10:10b

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

He does this for them because His Death for them has abolished death for them.

However, before this impartation of Life, the condition the Spirit finds us in, we are dead, like Lazarus Jn 11:14.

One of the major reasons why false religion and works salvation flourish in the world today is because, the scriptural testimony of mans depravity and spiritual alienation/death from God is not believed or received.

beloved57
October 30th, 2013, 11:24 PM
Jn 3:7

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Understand, those Christ has died for must be born again for the purpose of conversion, a newness of life. By New Birth ability is now given the soul by which the new born to be converted is enabled to Spiritually hear and believe on Christ for all of Salvation and Righteousness, as He is revealed to them in the Gospel Rom 1:16; for without it, the Gospel, the things of God cannot be spiritually received and understood as per Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

The word understandeth here is the greek word syniēmi and means:

I.
to set or bring together
A.
in a hostile sense, of combatants


II.
to put (as it were) the perception with the thing perceived
A.
to set or join together in the mindI.

i.e. to understand: the man of understanding

ii.
idiom for: a good and upright man (having the knowledge of those things which pertain to salvation)

Now, Paul writes of the plight of the Lost man by nature and writes this Rom 3:11

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Yep that includes you and I by nature, we do not understand the things of God, we cannot bring or join them together in our mind.

Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

The unregenerate man and mind cannot put together the things of God together in their minds because its enmity against God and the things of God !

Paul writes something similar to that notion here 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

14 But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated. AMP

Please note something here, this by no means does not mean that the natural man cannot have a natural intellectual ability to receive the Gospel Truths, but we do deny as does scripture that he has spiritual ability to do so. In the New Birth the Spirit of God immediately begets in the new born one a capacity for spiritual understanding, a spiritual will, spiritual affections, all Spiritual sensitivity faculties, to prepare them for the embracing with the New Heart, the Word of the Kingdom Matt 13:23.

beloved57
November 12th, 2013, 05:50 AM
Jn 3:7

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

The word must dei:

I.it is necessary, there is need of, it behooves, is right and proper
A.
necessity lying in the nature of the case

Without it, men by nature are only flesh as Per Jesus statement Jn 3:6

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

And when it comes to God, obeying God, Pleasing God Jesus says Jn 6:63

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

This confirms one of the assesments of God's inditement of mankind by nature here through Paul Rom 3:12

They are all gone out of the way, they are G889 together become unprofitable; G889 there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

We as men by nature are unserviceable and useless to God.

With that in Mind, Not until a man is born again spiritually, does he have the ability to perform any acts of spiritual obedience, exercises, such as Repentance towards God and Faith in Christ as Per Acts 20:21

21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

The natural man of only natural generation cannot perform these charges, exhortations !

But only those who are of the Regeneration, who have been born again !

Since God knows this obviously, then He knows that those whom He desires to Repent and put faith in Christ, needs to first be Born Again, hence the Necessity of the New Birth from the Divine Perspective.

Those whom God is not willing that they perish, but come to Repentance 2 Pet 3:9

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Then He has also willed their New Birth First to Accomplish His will !

beloved57
November 12th, 2013, 07:27 AM
New Birth or Regeneration is the Spiritual Application of Justification or Imputed Righteousness, for Imputed Righteousness necessitates an Impartation of Righteousness which is New Birth or Regeneration. All whom God Justifies through the Death of His Son, must have that spiritually applied.

In this Regeneration the Justified one is now enabled to Repent and be ye Converted and receive the Gospel of their Salvation, for without New Birth however, this Conversion is impossible, Jesus said Matt 18:3

And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

That's just another way of Jesus saying what He said here Jn 3:7

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

The word become in Matt 18:3

And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Its the word ginomai:

I.to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being

Its speaking of New Birth, a coming into existence a second time, to receive a New Being, Existence, Nature, conscious, existence; life

Without this, Our Conversion to God is non existence ! Without it, man cannot see the Kingdom of God, nor the things of it. Without it he is blind to those things mentally and cannot perceive them, and they are foolishness to him, for they are only spiritually discerned. One of the things that is Spiritual that is foolishness to him, as per 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Is the Preaching of the Cross 1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

The preaching of the Cross is to them that are in a lost state foolishness. The word for perish here in 1 Cor 1:18 is the word lost here in 2 Cor 4:3

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

As long as man is in a unregenerate state by nature, he is experientially lost and in that case he is in a perishing state, and consequently to him in that state, the Preaching of the Cross, when its preached truthfully, is foolishness !

So one must be in a saved regenerate state of New Birth before the Gospel to them is not foolishness !

beloved57
November 13th, 2013, 08:22 AM
Jn 3:7

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

This is not an imperative given by Jesus to nicademus or anyone else, its an expression of need or necessity the word must dei:

I.it is necessary, there is need of, it behooves, is right and proper
A.
necessity lying in the nature of the case


The Need of the New Birth before the Elect of God can Repent and Believe the Gospel, is because of what they are by nature, for by nature all men are without exception are 1000% percent totally depraved corrupt, wicked, or perverted, and that incurably so, and so are not capable of anything on a spiritual level good ! Rom 3:10-12

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Now I already know the proud freewillers and arminians do not believe this truth about themselves, but do relegate it to others, but not to themselves by nature.

In fact however we are all by nature spiritually dead ! That's why is incurable, death is final !

Now all of us by natural birth are what Jesus says here Jn 3:6

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

That's it folks, no matter how refined, cultured, religious, educated, moral and on and on, That which is born of the flesh [natural birth] is flesh ! And Paul writes about that this Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Basically it means they which only have had a natural birth by their natural parents, cannot please God !!!!

All of us are born totally dead in trespasses and sins, hence we walk according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit which now worketh in the children of disobedience. Eph 2:2

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

The word walked means i.to regulate one's life according to a course of the age. The word according to is strong here , it means motion and direction, after the manner of:

Its to follow the rule of a destructive spiritual power.

Under the control of an spirit of operation ! Under the control of a Strong man Matt 12:29

Hence by nature, all of us, elect and non elect alike, we are in the realm of satan's kingdom, which Paul mentions here Col 1:13

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

All by nature, that which is flesh Jn 3:6a is under the Power of darkness:

That word Power means:

The power of rule or government (the power of him whose will and commands must be submitted to by others and obeyed)

We are under in his Kingdom. Jesus said Matt 12:26

26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

We are all by nature under his Power of darkness Acts 26:18

18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

All the while we are in nature, we can do nothing spiritually good, but only comply to satans will Jn 8:44

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Even though Jesus is speaking to the children of the devil here, nevertheless, those He came to redeem of the Children of God, do have the same nature by birth as they do, and by that nature, we do only the lusts of the devil , which is disobedience to God again Eph 2:2-3


2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

This describes Spiritual death ! Which we are by nature, elect and non elect !

beloved57
November 13th, 2013, 10:45 AM
Now again, this must be made clear, even though the Elect of God BY NATURE are not the children of the devil or of disobedience, nevertheless by nature they share the same type of nature, sinful, and as long as they merely remain in an unregenerate state in the flesh, we are remaining in satans power and kingdom, and cannot Hear, nor Understand God's words Jn 8:43

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

We by nature as the devil's children by nature cannot hear it when preached nor when its read, and True Faith is birthed by Hearing the Word of God Rom 10:17

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Not only by nature we cannot hear the word of God, but neither do we understand it Again Jn 8:43

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

And understanding is needed to hear spiritually and bear fruit Matt 13:23


23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Hearing without understanding it is not the Hearing of Rom 10:17.

Also the Natural man by nature does not understand spiritual things of God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

I know many proud religionists like arminians and freewillers exempt themselves from the None here ! And they proudly claim that while they were in nature of the flesh, that they both sought after the True God and Understood Him !

But Rom 3:11 is by Paul here under Inspiration being applied to all men without exception Universally from age to age.

Listen, not one person under heaven, born of a woman, understands or seeks for the True Living God nor hears and understand His Word of Truth, and if we say otherwise, we are liars and the truth is not in us; Before any of us can Spiritually Hear God's Words, and begin to understand it, we must first be of God Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

And We must be delivered out of the kingdom of satan, of which Paul gives thanks to God for here Col 1:12-13

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered [set free, rescued] us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Which is the result of the New Birth, and its when we are in the Kingdom of His Dear Son experientially by New Birth that we can Hear the Gospel of the Kingdom !

Its only men and women born of God into the Kingdom of His Dear Son, that shall be able to hear God's Words Jn 8:47, and hence its only they that can be those in this category Rom 10:17 ! Life from God must be before we can have the ability to hear, understand and believe, and that is why all for whom Christ died and redeemed, must be born again Jn 3:7

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

beloved57
November 18th, 2013, 12:24 PM
The scripture is full of the teaching of the New Birth or Regeneration because men by nature are spiritually dead, both the Elect[Children of God] and non elect [the children of the devil].

Here are a few scriptures that indicate the same. Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

The word dead nekros:

I.
properly
A.
one that has breathed his last, lifeless

B.
deceased, departed, one whose soul is in heaven or hell

C.
destitute of life, without life, inanimate


II.
metaph.
A.
spiritually dead
i.
destitute of a life that recognises and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins
ii.
inactive as respects doing right


B.
destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative

All in red applies to us all by nature, being dead !

Luke 15:24

24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

The speaker here is God the Father, and notice He calls the one that was dead, My Son, meaning a Child of God by nature, but being dead !

Now also understand something else about this verse, when the child of God is by nature dead in sin, he is also in a state of being lost "he was lost, and is found"

The word Lost apollymi is the same word Paul used here 2 Cor 4:3

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Now understand something from Lk 15:24, while we are dead, we are Lost, and so all the while we are in this state or condition, the Gospel is being hid from us, so before believing the Gospel we must be saved out of a lost condition, which is what being made alive means Eph 2:5, which is also New Birth / Regeneration !

Truster
November 18th, 2013, 01:00 PM
John 3:7

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

When Jesus told Nicodemus that except a man be born again he cannot see [perceive] the Kingdom of God as per vs 3

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

In essence, what Jesus meant, except ye are of that seed in Me, by being Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World [Eph 1:4] ye cannot see or understand the Kingdom of God, which is to include it's Gospel, The Gospel of the Kingdom or of the Kingdom of God. Matt 24:14

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


Mark 1:14

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Which are also the Kingdom Mysteries Luke 8:10

And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Now, even though Jesus was giving a condition " except ye be born again ", yet He was not giving a imperative or duty for one to perform to become born again; because there is nothing a person can do to be born; even if it was for us to go back into our mothers womb, [ which its not] how could we accomplish that ? Could we make ourselves fetuses again ? Would that be in our ability ?

But nevertheless, Christ meant what He said in stating that 'Ye must be born Again " !

The correct term is born ''above''. The Greek ''anothen'' is used only here twice and once in Galatians where it is correctly translated as ''upper mostly''.
It's interesting to note that ''anothen'' also means 'from the beginning' So when you consider the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, at the beginning, the true sense is born from the beginning when the Lamb was slain….lovely!

beloved57
November 18th, 2013, 06:19 PM
Now more scriptures on us , man by nature, being dead Matt 8:22

22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Here in this verse nekros dead means for the first mention, the spiritually dead, the second mention means the physically dead person who is being funeralized !

This scripture also gives us to know that those Christ called to follow Him are not Spiritually dead. We know also who it is He calls to follow Him, His Sheep Jn 10:1-4

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

Another passage that indicates that men are dead by nature spiritually Ezekiel 37:1-5

The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones, Indicating death or being dead !

2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.

3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest.

4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.

5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:

This is analogous to being quickened, or being made alive ! Paul writes to the Spiritually alive Elect Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

Man can do nothing towards God without first being made alive by Christ, the Spirit of Christ ! So man must be born again !

beloved57
November 19th, 2013, 06:39 AM
The Necessity of the Elect to be born again in order to do anything spiritually good and acceptable to God, lies in the facts, that not only are they dead to God by nature, but also because they as well as all men have hearts of stone Ezk 36:26

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

All men by nature, jew or gentile have stony hearts ! The word stony here means perverse and hard !

Perverse means:

willfully determined or disposed to go counter to what is expected or desired; contrary.

wayward or cantankerous,persistent or obstinate in what is wrong.

turned away from or rejecting what is right, good, or proper; wicked or corrupt.

Jesus said once of mens hearts Matt 17:17

Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.

This indicates that that man's heart by nature is faithless !

Now remember what Jesus also said about the stony heart hearers of His Gospel . Matt 13:20-21

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

At best they can become a false believer, but they shall eventually fall away /apostatize ! But Jesus tells us why Look"Yet hath he not root in himself"

Now exactly what does that mean ? It means they had no real change of heart by New Birth, they still had the same stony heart they had by nature, they just were able to be outwardly reformed.

The same heart is seen here from the lukean account Luke 8:13

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

You see that ? They for a time believe or as Matt wrote it receive the word with Joy Matt 13:20. But notice what shall happen to them, in time of persecution, suffering, they fall away !

Its the same word here 1 Tim 4:1

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from G868 the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Now why do they fall away or depart the Faith ? Jesus told us in Lk 8:13, because they still had hearts of stone, no root, no Christ ! Remember what Paul wrote to the Gentile believers, lest they become over confident because of the fall of the jews Rom 11:18

Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Its only because of Christ's Grace communicated to us in New Birth that we become believers, and there is no reason to boast !

This falling away or departing from the faith was common in first century Christianity, and what is the writer of Hebrews points out here Heb 10:38-39

38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

The writer identifies them that draw back as a separate group, He knows they are those Jesus spoke of here Lk 8:13

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

So those who draw back Heb 10:38-39 are no more than stony heart hearers or believers who had no root in themselves, no Christ in them by New Birth. You see those who are given True Faith to believe on Christ, in addition with that is given the ability to suffer for His Truth Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

So in time of temptation for His Word, they shall not fall away !

beloved57
November 19th, 2013, 10:36 AM
Acts 7:51

51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

By nature ladies and gentlemen, both the elect and non elect are uncircumcised in heart and ears.

Now I know Stephen here is speaking to jews, but that does not matter gentiles, we by nature are no better than they are ! All men by nature have uncircumcised hearts and ears and cannot stand the Word of Truth ! Its enmity to Truth ! All hearts of men resist the Holy Spirit. That word resist means II.to be adverse, oppose, strive against.

If we deny this, its because of pride ! Our Hearts being uncircumcised is darkness , they are covered to Divine Instruction.

This Truth Necessitates New Birth !

beloved57
November 19th, 2013, 12:43 PM
Another reason why the Elect need to be born again, all men by nature to the exclusion of none have impenitent hearts Rom 2:5

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

The word impenitent is the greek word ametanoētos:

I.admitting no change of mind, unrepented, impenitent

Folks that is what repentance is, a change of mind. Here is the word repentance as Per Lk 24:47

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Its the word metanoia:

I.a change of mind, as it appears to one who repents, of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done

Folks by nature, no man alive has a repentant heart towards God as Per Acts 20:21

21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

That's impossible for any one to do who has not been given a New Heart from above !

Notice to whom Paul refers this comment to back up in Rom 2:5, lets look two verses prior Rom 2:3

3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

This applies to all spiritually dead men, dead in trespasses and sins. Now listen, in a Lost state, with our native hard hearts, uncircumcised hearts, we can never truly repent towards God. This condition that man is in by nature, both elect and non elect sets the stage for the Necessity of the New Birth, in fact, if men were not regenerated before the Gospel is sent to them, there would be no conversions to God at all. If Their were no regenerate to hear the Gospel and Believe, Jesus would not have needed to send Preachers to Preach the Gospel. For no one would believe, no one would repent Acts 17:30

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Where does Repentance come from ? 1 Pet 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

It comes from being begotten again. This word is anagennaō:

I.
to produce again, be born again, born anew
II.
metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

That's it folks, it comes from above, from being born again. That's it, no other way can man have a repentant heart towards God Acts 20:21

21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

beloved57
November 19th, 2013, 05:15 PM
I have shown why God's Elect need to be born again, because they are by nature, as well as the non elect, are Spiritually Dead and have Uncircumcised hearts that cannot Savingly believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Now we will look at the many sayings, or phrases in scripture that mean or imply New Birth or Being Born Again.

Now the Term Circumcision of the Heart is one Deut 30:6

6 And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

That's why some men do Love God Rom 8:28

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

1 Jn 4:19

19 We love him, because he first loved us.

Folks if God really Loved us in Christ, He by New Birth gives us a circumcised heart to love Him Back, This is a Circumcised Heart Rom 2:29

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

That's New Birth !

beloved57
November 19th, 2013, 08:03 PM
Now this circumcision of the heart is imperative because circumcision as it was under the Old Covenant indicated that the one being circumcised had been born into the Covenant People, hence Abraham was told to circumcise the males. Now understand this, Abraham in this was a Type of Christ in that as Abraham's Seed was circumcised, so it is with Christ's Seed Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he[Christ] shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

The difference is this, Abraham's Seed according to the flesh must receive a physical circumcision, whereas Christ Seed, which is Abraham's Spiritual Seed, must receive a Spiritual Circumcision of the Heart, indicating they were His Seed Isa 53:10.

Now Jesus coming into the world in the flesh was in line with God's Covenant Command to Abraham's Seed Lk 1:72-73

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

And Jesus as a babe was circumcised according to the Abrahamic Covenant Lk 2:21

21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child,Gen 17:12 his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

Remember God's word to Abraham Gen 17:10-14


10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

Now its for certain that Christ is Abraham's Seed Gal 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

And so Christ's Seed is Abraham's Seed Isa 53:10, however Abraham's Seed through His Seed Christ is a Spiritual Seed, not a ethnic physical seed. So now understand, Abraham's Seed through His Seed Christ, to evidence that they are Abraham's Spiritual Seed, they must according to the Covenant Gen 17:9-13, they must receive Spiritual Circumcision, and that's why Abraham's Seed that belongs to Christ, must be born again Jn 3:7, their New Birth is their Spiritual Circumcision according to Covenant, manifesting them as Abraham's Seed and Heirs according to Promise through His Seed Christ Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

beloved57
November 20th, 2013, 06:03 AM
Now understand something, the Circumcision of the son in the covenant family was not the responsibility of the child, nor was it according the child's own will, as neither his birth, but it was the responsibility of the progenitor of the child, Lets read back in Gen 17:9-12


9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

Who is responsible for the son's circumcision here ? Also when Christ was born as a babe, who was under responsibility to have him circumcised ? Lk 2:21-27


21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;

23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord )

24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.

26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
The progenitor or the Father is responsible for the seed that God gives him, and so it was with Christ, He is responsible to His Covenant God and Father to circumcise the seed, children given Him, for they are Christ's Seed Isa 53:10, Christ is their Everlasting Father Isa 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

So if He does not circumcise His Seed given Him, He does not fulfill the obligations of the Everlasting Covenant as it is stated in type Gen 17:13-14

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

The Elect are children given to Christ Heb 2:13,16

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

Which by the way are the seed of Abraham :

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Therefore Christ must see to it that they Love God, by the their circumcision Deut 30:6

6 And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

This is New Birth, and this is why also the Crowning achievement of Christ's Exaltation was the Father gave Him the Holy Spirit to pour out on His Seed, that the Spirit should circumcise their hearts. Acts 2:32-33

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

All for whom Christ died, must receive the Circumcision of Christ Col 2:11

11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

If we do not receive this circumcision by New Birth, we were none of His Rom 8:9

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

beloved57
November 21st, 2013, 09:50 AM
Another scriptural saying that denotes New Birth/ Regeneration is Ezk 36:26

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

No man can believe on Christ with the Heart without first receiving the Gift of a New Heart ! Rom 10:9-10 is describing the action of the New Heart, its the New Heart of Flesh !

Another is Gal 6:15

15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

beloved57
November 21st, 2013, 11:13 AM
Col 2:11

11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

The circumcision of Christ ! Its been stated before that Christ, the Seed of Abraham Gal 3:16, does as His Type Abraham did, circumcises His Seed, but with a Spiritual Circumcision or New Birth. Now to add to that point, even His Death portends this Spiritual Circumcision in that Christ's Death is called a Circumcision Col 2:11, its that having been crucified with Christ [The Old Man], putting off that body of the flesh Rom 6:6

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

In Christ's Crucifixion for those He substituted for, died in their stead and behalf, that old life we have in adam has been put to death of crucified in a allegorical way as the dead skin is circumcised or cut off, and this follows a living reality of a New Life by New Birth, and the Spiritual Circumcision of Heart to serve God in Newness of Life.

That's why it can be said about all for whom Christ died and rose this 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

This being begotten again through His Resurrection means this, the word begotten again is the greek ἀναγεννάω:


I beget again, beget into a new life.

anagennáō (from 303 /aná, "up, again," which intensifies 1080 /gennáō, "give birth") – properly, born-again or "born from on high."

That's what Christ's Death effects, for all whom He died, this is the Circumcision of Christ, a New Life unto God by New Birth.

beloved57
December 1st, 2013, 11:06 PM
Who are the ones who shall be born again ? Remember Jesus words Jn 3:7

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. to Nicademus.

Well, all the ones that Jesus came to redeem and did in fact redeem, by His Blood Gal 3:13; Eph 1:7.

Now all who have been redeemed by His Blood are sprinkled with it 1 Pet 1:1-2

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

The sprinkling of the Blood here denotes Redemption, and Christ's Blood redeems those He died for, from a vain manner of life 1 Pet 1:18-19

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation[manner of life] received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

A vain manner of life is contrasted to a Holy Manner of Life as in 1 Pet 1:15

15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

Now in a unregenerate state, no matter how religious and moral we may have been, are lives are vain, unprofitable [Rom 3:12],our walk or manner of life before New Birth is stated here Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Now understand, lust of the flesh here does include being religious. Paul writes here 2 Tim 4:3

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

This is not talking about sexual lusts and all that, but religious lusts, false doctrines apostate from the Truth; But Christ's precious blood redeems those He died for from that vain manner of Life by New Birth. Lets go back to Vs 18 1 Pet 1:18

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

This is key here as to understanding the power of the Cross and Redemption, those Christ died for are redeemed FROM a vain manner of life. The word from is the greek preposition ek and it means:

A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative

I.out of, from, by, away from

His death/blood redeems them He died for out of,away from a vain manner of life !

The redemption delivers from evils of every kind, internal and external.

Now lets go back to 1 Pet 1:1-2, and the result of the sprinkling f the blood, which again denotes redemption, it is that we are begotten again by the resurrection of Christ from the dead 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

This being begotten again is a New Life ! The word for begotten again anagennaō means:

I.
to produce again, be born again, born anew

II.
metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

This New Life here is obtained for them and applied because of the redemption of His Blood.

So the ones who are to be born again, are the ones Christ died for and redeemed with His Blood

beloved57
December 2nd, 2013, 08:06 AM
First I hoped to show who it is that shall be born again, by showing that its all those Redeemed by the Blood of Christ, that by His Blood He redeems them out of a vain manner of Life by the New Birth 1 Pet 1:18-19 and they are the ones of 1 Pet 1:2, the objects of the sprinkling of the blood, which again refers to redemption by His Precious Blood.

Now, Secondly and joined to the first, the redeemed, the subjecs of New Birth or Regeneration are those of the Elect of God or the Election of Grace. Here in 1 Pet 1:2 they are called those that are Elect according to the foreknowledge of God as seen here 1 Pet 1:1-3

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

See the progression here? They are Elected, Redeemed, and Begotten Again ! That's the Work of the Triune God. The Father Elected, the Son Redeemed and the Spirit quickened them !

The Foreknowledge of God in Vs 2 refers to the foreknown People of God Rom 11:2

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

And Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

New Birth is of Necessity to be conformed to the Image of God's Son !

So they are the ones Elect according to the Father's Foreknowledge, also they are said to be a Chosen generation 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

That word chosen means:

I.picked out, chosen
A.
chosen by God,
i.
to obtain salvation through Christ


In fact its the same word for Elect in 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect or Chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Now of course, some false teachers shall say that 1 Pet 2:9 refers to only ethnic jews because of the words Holy Nation there and of course here Exodous 19:6

And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

But they do lie, and that's why they are false teachers, but 1 Pet 2:9 applies to all who are begotten again through the Resurrection of Christ unto a Lively Hope 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Does that apply only to ethnic jews ? Did Christ die and was Resurrected for only ethnic jews ? God forbid !

Also we know that it also applies to Gentiles by a simple comparison of scripture, for scripture explains scripture. Compare 1 Pet 2:5

5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Notice, They are as lively stones built up a Spiritual House or Temple. Remember Jesus made a reference to stones and Temple Matt 24:1-2

And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

So the idea of 1 Pet 2:5 is that of being built into a Spiritual Temple or House for God to dwell in !

Now lets compare that to Eph 2:21-22 where Gentiles are being written to:


19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Which we know these to be the Chosen of God also from Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

So how could the Chosen in Eph 1:4 who are a Spiritual Temple in the building, be different from those in 1 Pet 2:5,9 who are being built a Spiritual House , Temple ? Is the Spiritual Temple divided again like the OT was ? Then that refutes Eph 2:14,19

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

The partition has been abolished. The word means:

I.
a hedge, a fence

II.
that which separates, prevents two from coming together

So the Spiritual Temple of Eph 2 is the same as the One in 1 Pet 2:5 which is the same as that in 1 Pet 2:9 which fulfills Ex 19:6 which was directed to Israel !

Now, this is all to prove that its the Chosen ones of God, who shall be born again, which are the Redeemed ones.

beloved57
December 24th, 2013, 12:25 PM
When one is born again as Christ stated here Jn 3:7

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Now understand something here. When Jesus gives this Necessity, its not that the sinner must be born over again, nor that the sinners sin nature is born over again, for the word is born anew :


I.from above, from a higher place

A.of things which come from heaven or God



II.from the first, from the beginning, from the very first


III.anew, over again

Jesus is speaking of a Birth which comes from above, being born anew, a birth from heaven.

its a Birth that comes from here Eph 2:6

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Col 3:1

If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Yes, those who were raised up together with Him, are also sitting with Him on the Right Hand of God in Union Representation. He is there [at the Right Hand of God] making Intercession for them Rom 8:34

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at [the right hand of God], who also maketh intercession for us.

So this one receives a Birth from above, a New Birth also in Kind. Its not the birth the sinner had in the flesh, so Jesus said Jn 3:6

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

In fact that which they are by nature and the first birth remains the same, that's why Paul as well as True Believers can Say as Born Again Ones 1 Tim 1:15

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Yes being born again anew, does nothing to change us from being sinners in the flesh. Rom 7:18

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

We even still serve sin in the flesh Rom 7:25

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

We know Paul is speaking as a Dual Person and One that is Born Again because He says here with His Mind He serves the Law of God, verses in the flesh he serves the Law of sin.

Now, he has to be born of the Spirit to serve the Law of God with his Mind because of this Truth Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

If Paul was not Born Again, he could not with the Mind he has by nature serve God because that mind is enmity against God, and it is NOT subject to the Law of God !

You see what He says he does in Rom 7:25 with his Mind serving , submitting to the Law of God, its what he cannot do with his mind in Rom 8:7, CANNOT !

beloved57
December 24th, 2013, 12:48 PM
So since the sin nature we have by nature out of the corruptible seed of Adam is not born again, the saints are as Paul said of Himself 1 Tim 1:15

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

I am chief of sinners here is in the present tense, its a present indicative verb, I am presently chief of sinners, because his sin nature which he received from his union with adam the corruptible seed 1 Pet 1:23, it has not been changed or altered in any way, its just as depraved as it was coming out of his mother's womb, as it is with all the Election of Grace.

So to be Born Again is not the New Birth of the Old Man Adam, but it is the addition or the uniting,adjoining of a New Man, Born from Above out of Incorruptible Seed, The Word of God, who sits on the Right Hand of God, and herein this New Man lies Righteousness and True Holiness Eph 4:23-24

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

We know the Old Man is still near by what is said in Vs 22

22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

That's we can say with Paul Rom 7:21

I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil[of a bad nature] is present with me.

That's the old man, the flesh, because as Jesus said Jn 3:6

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

beloved57
January 8th, 2014, 05:11 AM
Rom 8:10

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

The Lord Jesus Christ, the Last Adam was made a quickening Spirit unto all for whom He represented, and did satisfy God's Law and Justice in behalf of 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

As the Elect received their physical life from the first adam, so they receive their Spiritual life from the Last Adam.

Now all for whom Christ acted in the capacity as a Mediator Head, to them Righteousness has been Imputed, and all to whom this Righteousness has been Imputed, the Spirit is directed by the Mediator Head to give Life to them, because of Righteousness. Where there is Righteousness the result is Life Prov 11:19

As righteousness tendeth to life: so he that pursueth evil pursueth it to his own death.

Prov 12:28

In the way of righteousness is life: and in the pathway thereof there is no death.

Rom 5:17

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Now because of His Righteousness Imputed to them, Life is their reward and due, not for their sakes, or anything they acted, but on account of Christ's active obedience being imputed to them as their Righteousness Rom 8:2

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

All for whom Christ Jesus died, have been set free from death by the Law for their sin and accounted Righteous, and so as proof of the same, they receive the Spirit from Christ which quickens them to Life !

Quirkybird
January 8th, 2014, 07:51 AM
Having been subjected as a child to the horrible 'born again' dogma, I think it nasty and abusive. The crazy idea that a person like Hitler can supposedly make a deathbed conversion and get waved through the pearly gates, yet a good atheist would go to hell, is not only unpleasant, it is evil!

SaulToPaul
January 8th, 2014, 09:46 AM
The crazy idea that a person like Hitler can supposedly make a deathbed conversion and get waved through the pearly gates, yet a good atheist would go to hell, is not only unpleasant, it is evil!

How is it evil?

neither one deserves to go to heaven

Quirkybird
January 8th, 2014, 10:20 AM
How is it evil?

neither one deserves to go to heaven

If heaven exists it should be for all, even if some have to spend sometime earning their place there. No one is bad enough to spend an eternity in hell.

SaulToPaul
January 8th, 2014, 11:18 AM
If heaven exists it should be for all, even if some have to spend sometime earning their place there. No one is bad enough to spend an eternity in hell.

If there is a God and if he is perfect, how could you earn your place there?

SaulToPaul
January 8th, 2014, 11:27 AM
No one is bad enough to spend an eternity in hell.

If there is a God, and if he is perfect, and if he in his justice must quarantine all imperfection, then everyone is bad enough to spend an eternity in hell.

Quirkybird
January 8th, 2014, 11:45 AM
If there is a God, and if he is perfect, and if he in his justice must quarantine all imperfection, then everyone is bad enough to spend an eternity in hell.

The deity featured in the Bible is far from perfect, totally evil, in fact!

SaulToPaul
January 8th, 2014, 12:01 PM
The deity featured in the Bible is far from perfect, totally evil, in fact!

Okie dokie

Cruciform
January 9th, 2014, 03:35 PM
The deity featured in the Bible is far from perfect, totally evil, in fact!
Go ahead and post your proof for this claim.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

beloved57
January 23rd, 2014, 12:32 AM
Because of the depravity of man by nature, and its so bad, its called spiritual death or being spiritually dead, and hence in order for him [generically] to make any act Godward or towards God like Acts 20:21

21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

He would have to be born again. Jesus makes it clear here Jn 3:3-5

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Or he would have to be born anew, or quickened / made alive, begotten again 1 Pet 1:3, or given new life by the Spirit, or he cannot see or enter the Kingdom of God.

The word see in Jn 3:3 greek word Eido, it means :

to see to perceive with the eyes
to perceive by any of the senses
to perceive, notice, discern, discover
to see i.e. to turn the eyes, the mind, the attention to anything
to pay attention, observe
to see about something 1d


i.e. to ascertain what must be done about it to inspect, examine
to look at, behold
to experience any state or condition
to see i.e. have an interview with, to visit

to know to know of anything
to know, i.e. get knowledge of, understand, perceive

Its a mental/spiritual perception, not physical seeing with the physical eye gate, but its comprehending spiritual realities with the heart. Unless man is given a celestial birth from above,he will never have a heart that understands the Truths about the Lord Jesus Christ and His Cross, nor ears to hear it, because of mans corrupt nature, the things of God and His Son are beyond his ability to understand; and not until a New Birth from above, into that Kingdom, Zion man cannot receive with understanding its Gospel Mysteries Matt 13:11-13


11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

beloved57
January 23rd, 2014, 09:17 AM
In speaking on the subject of being born again, Jesus uses the analogy of birth for a good reason simply because as it is in a man's physical birth, likewise the New Birth from above is not something the man does to or for himself, yet its something done unto him, man is totally passive and did absolutely nothing to cause it or bring it about, his will was not needed or consulted at anytime, neither did he make a decision about it ! John summed it up Jn 1:13

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

of His own will James 1:18

18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

The begetting of us by His Own Will is a Gift from above James 1:17 The Gift is not something offered for ones acceptance, but something done for one in a Sovereign manner !

The New Birth is what is called a benefaction, its a Gift in that respect. A benefaction means:

an act of conferring a benefit; the doing of good; a good deed

Now being Born again is all God's Will and decision and purpose, not the one whose going to be born, neither does God force anyone to be born again, as much as He did not force anyone to be born physically ! Even that life is a Sovereign Gift !

Now Listen ones Spiritual Birth is of God's own will in the same manner as Isaac was to Sarah and Abraham. Now God promised them a son Gen 18:10,14

10 And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.

14 Is any thing too hard for the Lord? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.

Now whose will was it that Isaac would be born ? Whose will determined it ? Was it Isaacs will or decision that he be born ? Did God force Isaac to be born ? Was it even Abraham's and Sarah's will that Isaac be born ?

Gen 21:1-2

And the Lord visited Sarah as he had said, and the Lord did unto Sarah as he had spoken.

2 For Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him.

That word bare means to :

I.to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail

The same Idea as in James 1:18

18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

And as we saw with Issac's birth by the will of God, so it is with all who shall be born of the Spirit or born again,in fact all believers are as Issac was to Abraham, Children of Promise Gal 4:28

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

This means that believers in Christ come to be in the same manner as Isaac became Abraham's son, by God's promise to Abraham !

And this entails being born again after the Spirit as Isaac was Gal 4:28-29

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

beloved57
January 23rd, 2014, 11:40 PM
This is more on why the New Birth is of necessity to believe the Gospel. What religionists do not realize is that Faith or believing in Christ in a Gospel conversion experience, that having understanding is a must. Remember what Jesus said about the different soils which represented the hearts, on which the word or the Gospel is sown ? Notice that the only one that had a positive fruitful conversion result was this one Matt 13:23

But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Yes Hearing and Understanding go together in Hearing the Gospel. Remember Jesus stated once Jn 8:43

Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Yes the one which hears the word and understands it brings forth fruit of Faith.

You see we believe with and understand with the heart Rom 10:9-10

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Now also we must understand with the Heart for conversion Jn 12:40

He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

This verse definitely points out the need to understand with the heart to be converted ! See Matt 13:15 also to this point !

The word converted means change as in change ones mind which is repentance !

beloved57
January 24th, 2014, 12:02 AM
We have seen that in conversion, Faith and Repentance, Gospel hearing, that understanding is a must Matt 13:23 and without it, there cannot be any conversion as described in Rom 10:9-10, for there simply is no believing in the heart and with the heart without understanding.

Now scripture is quite clear in informing us that man by nature, the natural man, the unregenerate man al of them are without understanding Read Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Mine you, the word understaneth is the same greek word for understandeth in Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

That should tell us something about the one in Matt 13:23, the good ground hearer with understanding ! Its a born again person with a new heart !

As you can see the indictment of the natural man in Rom 3:11, nor does he seek after the True God which is actually the same word used in Heb 11:6 when identifying Faith that pleases God Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

This should tell us something to ! That the one seeking God is also not a man by nature, but an born again one, because none by nature seek God according to Rom 3:11 !

Now this is spiritual understanding we are referring to, and by nature we do not understand. Eph 4:18 our understanding is darkened by nature, and so in this spiritual condition by nature we are not capable of believing in a conversion experience the Gospel of God. Its only if we have been born again that Gospel Preaching is going to convert us, but if its preached just to the natural man, its worthless as to conversion, and it conversion is not even possible, unless its a counterfeit one ! That's why all for whom Christ died, He gives them New Birth to prepare them for Gospel Obedience and Conversion !

beloved57
February 13th, 2014, 12:33 AM
Jn 3:7

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.


Now who shall be the subjects of Regeneration or New Birth or Quickening, for they are all the same Blessing and indicative of New Life; But who does the scripture as the subjects of this New Life or New Birth ?

First they are the Elect of God 1 Pet 1:2-3

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

They are the objects of His Great Love Eph 2:4-5


4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Those whom Christ redeemed are subjects of New Birth again 1 Pet 1:18-19

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

These redeemed with the precious blood are said to have been begotten again by the Resurrection of Christ from the dead back in Vs 3, which correlates with Eph 2:4-5

He quickens those who are dead Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

For if one was not dead, as many religionists falsely believe, then they needed not to be made alive !

beloved57
March 6th, 2014, 11:15 AM
By nature, all men, to include the elect themselves, are given and are energized by a spirit of disobedience/ unbelief Eph 2:1-3

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

This is an undeniable fact ! All the Elect of God due to the fall in adam, God consigned them all [jew and gentile elect] to disobedience or as it is called unbelief here Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.


The word unbelief here is the greek word apeitheia and means:

I.obstinacy, obstinate opposition to the divine will

And its Translate 3 times in the NT as disobedience : One here Eph 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: G543


And we all are under the control of that spirit while in a spiritually dead state of unregeneracy.

Now in the New Birth, God gives the redeemed a Spirit of Obedience, that's conducive to obeying God's Will !

The Prophets of old foretold it Ezk 36:25-27

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Notice, after putting His Spirit in them it causes a different walk as opposed to the walk in the flesh [Eph 2:2] by the spirit of disobedience, but this Spirit causes them to walk in God's statutes, judgments and do them or obey them !

Peter knows that those who are obeying have been given the Spirit as projected in Ezk 36:27 when He writes here Acts 5:32

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

The obeying of God is an evidence of having been given the Spirit that causes obedience as Per Ezk 36:27

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Folks it cannot be made more plainer that this is the fulfillment of that prophecy !

Peter again states that Obedience is the result of the Spirit here 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Again, this is describing what was foretold here Ezk 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

To do them, means to perform them, to comply with them, to act them, to behave them !

Paul preached the same doctrine, that the Spirit causes Obedience to the Truth 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Or obeying the Truth as Per Gal 3:1

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Gal 5:7

Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

or obey the Gospel of Truth 2 Thess 1:8

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

And unfortunately, but according to God's Will of purpose, none can obey the Truth unless energized by the Spirit of Truth, a Spirit of obedience given in New Birth, because before New Birth, we only are being energized by the spirit of disobedience Eph 2:2

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

To produce obedience, God gives the Spirit of Obedience in New Birth Ezk 36:27

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

beloved57
July 11th, 2014, 07:41 AM
Jn 3:7

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

And this means for one, that we must be in Christ as His Seed, when He was raised from the dead, after having been delivered to death for the sins of His Seed Isa 53:10 ; 1 Pet 1:3; Rom 4:25; New Birth can only be ours through that means; In other words there had to be a Union with Christ when He died, was buried, and was raised again; and its that Union with Him that ensures our being born again, and thats part of the Gospel 1 Cor 15:3-4 !

Just as Christ, the Head was raised from the dead, so likewise, shall His seed walk in newness of Life Rom 6:4

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Which newness of Life comes from being begotten again by the Resurrection of Christ from the dead 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

The word begotten again is the greek word anagennaō and means:

I.
to produce again, be born again, born anew

II.
metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

Thats the newness of Life indicated in Rom 6:4

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Thats describing New Birth, so in other words, everyone Christ died for, because of their Union with Him when He died and rose, should be born again into Newness of Life !

Truster
July 12th, 2014, 02:06 AM
John 3:7

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

When Jesus told Nicodemus that except a man be born again he cannot see [perceive] the Kingdom of God as per vs 3

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

In essence, what Jesus meant, except ye are of that seed in Me, by being Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World [Eph 1:4] ye cannot see or understand the Kingdom of God, which is to include it's Gospel, The Gospel of the Kingdom or of the Kingdom of God. Matt 24:14

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


Mark 1:14

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Which are also the Kingdom Mysteries Luke 8:10

And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Now, even though Jesus was giving a condition " except ye be born again ", yet He was not giving a imperative or duty for one to perform to become born again; because there is nothing a person can do to be born; even if it was for us to go back into our mothers womb, [ which its not] how could we accomplish that ? Could we make ourselves fetuses again ? Would that be in our ability ?

But nevertheless, Christ meant what He said in stating that 'Ye must be born Again " !


The term used in the original is not ''again'', but above.

beloved57
July 12th, 2014, 04:17 AM
The term used in the original is not ''again'', but above.

Its both foolish person, Now review the points I made in the post with me to see if you understood them !

Truster
July 12th, 2014, 04:22 AM
Its both foolish person, Now review the points I made in the post with me to see if you understood them !

I got as far as ''born again'' and no further. The fact you use the term means you either don't understand the doctrine behind the words or that you don't care about spreading false interpretations. Either way I wouldn't waste the time of day reading your tailored dogma.

CatholicCrusader
July 12th, 2014, 04:38 AM
From another thread:





"Born Again" the Bible Way
By Tim Staples
http://www.catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/born-again-the-bible-way (http://www.catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/born-again-the-bible-way)



"Have you been born again, my friend?" Thousands have been asked this question by well-meaning Christians. Of course, by "born again" they actually mean: "Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior through the recitation of ‘the sinner’s prayer?’" How is one to respond?

The simple response is: "Yes, I have been born again—when I was baptized." In fact, Jesus’ famous "born again" discourse of John 3:3–5, which is where we find the words "born again" in Scripture, teaches us about the essential nature of baptism:


Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God." Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?" Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
When a Fundamentalist or Evangelical hears the Catholic position on the matter, the response is mostly predictable: "Baptism does not save you, brother; John 3:5 says we must be born of water and the Spirit." The Catholic will then be told the "water" of John 3:5 has nothing to do with baptism. Depending on the preference of the one to whom the Catholic is speaking, the "water" will either be interpreted as man’s natural birth (the "water" being amniotic fluid), and "the Spirit" would then represent the new birth—or the water would represent the word of God through which one is born again when he accepts Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior.


Amniotic Fluid vs. Baptismal Water


To claim that the "water" of John 3:5 is amniotic fluid is to stretch the context just a smidgen! When we consider the actual words and surrounding context of John 3, the waters of baptism seem to be a more reasonable interpretation of what it means to be "born again." Consider these surrounding texts:

John 1:31–34: Jesus was baptized. If you compare the parallel passage in Matthew’s Gospel (3:16), you find that when Jesus was baptized, "the heavens were opened" and the Spirit descended upon him. Obviously, this was not because Jesus needed to be baptized. In fact, John the Baptist noted that he needed to be baptized by Jesus (see Matt. 3:14). Jesus was baptized in order "fulfill all righteousness" and "to give knowledge of salvation to his people in the forgiveness of their sins" (cf. Matt. 3:15; Luke 1:77). In other words, Jesus demonstrably showed us the way the heavens would be opened to us so that the Holy Spirit would descend upon us—through baptism.
John 2:1–11: Jesus performed his first miracle. He transformed water into wine. Notice Jesus used water from "six stone jars . . . for the Jewish rites of purification." According to the Septuagint as well as the New Testament these purification waters were called baptismoi (see Num. 19:9–19; cf. Mark 7:4). We know that Old Testament rites, sacrifices, etc. were only "a shadow of the good things to come" (Heb. 10:1). They could never take away sins. This may well be why John specifies "six" stone jars—to denote imperfection, or "a human number" (cf. Rev. 13:18). It is interesting to note that Jesus transformed these Old Testament baptismal waters into wine—a symbol of New Covenant perfection (see Joel 3:18; Matt. 9:17).
John 3:22: Immediately after Jesus’ "born again" discourse to Nicodemus, what does he do? He baptizes. This is the only time in Scripture we find Jesus actually baptizing.
John 4:1–2: Jesus’ disciples then begin to baptize at Jesus’ command. (Note: John 4:1–2 appears to be a further clarification of 3:22. But it is unclear. It appears to say that Jesus only baptized his disciples and then they baptized everyone else. Some hold it to say Jesus never baptized at all.)
In summary, Jesus was baptized, transformed the "baptismal" waters, and then gave his famous "born again" discourse. He then baptized before commissioning the apostles to go out and baptize. To deny Jesus was teaching us about baptism in John 3:3–5 is to ignore the clear biblical context.

Moreover, John 3:5 is not describing two events; it describes one event. The text does not say "unless one is born of water and then born again of the Spirit . . . " It says "unless one is born of water and Spirit . . ." If we hearken back to the Lord’s own baptism in John 1 and Matthew 3, we notice that when our Lord was baptized, the Holy Spirit descended simultaneously upon him. This was one event, involving both water and the Spirit. And so it is with our baptism. If we obey God in being baptized—that’s our part of the deal—we can count on God to "open the heavens" for us concurrently and give us the Holy Spirit.

And finally, it would be anachronistic to read into Jesus’ use of "water" to mean physical birth in John’s Gospel. In fact, John had just used a word to refer to physical birth in John 1:12–13, but it wasn’t "water:" "But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God; who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."

John here tells us that we are not made children of God by birth ("of blood"), or by our own attempts whether they be through our lower nature ("of the flesh") or even through the higher powers of our soul ("the will of man"). Rather, we must be born of God, or by God’s power. Notice John refers to natural birth colloquially as "of blood," not "of water."


Washing of Water by the Word

It is perhaps an even greater stretch to claim that the "water" of John 3:3–5 represents the word of God. At least with the amniotic fluid argument, you have mention of "birth" in the immediate context. However, a Protestant will sometimes refer to Ephesians 5:25–26 and a few other texts to make this point: "Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word . . ."

"See?" he may say, "The ‘washing of water’ is here equated to ‘the word’ that cleanses us." If you couple this text with Jesus’ words in John 15:3—"You are already made clean by the word which I have spoken to you"—the claim is made, "the water" of John 3:5 would actually refer to the word of God rather than baptism. And finally, he might add Romans 10:9–10 to the mix: "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation" (KJV).

Though John 3:3–5 does not explicitly say man is born again by accepting Jesus, some Protestants connect all of these verses together and conclude that the Bible teaches we are saved or "born again" by professing faith in Jesus, not through baptism.


The Catholic Response

Both Catholics and Protestants agree that the word of God is said to "save us" and "cleanse us" inasmuch as it is an instrument used by God to bring his salvation to us that he won for us on the cross. Catholics and Protestants also agree, however, that more is needed than just the word of God for man to be saved. For Protestants, the salvation promised by God’s word is communicated through the individual profession of faith, so that is when a man is "born again." For Catholics, it is through faith and baptism; more specifically, it is through baptism that a man is "born again." The question is: What does the Bible say?

First, confessing Christ is certainly an essential part of the process of salvation. Romans 10:9–10 clearly teaches the one who believes and confesses his faith in Christ will be saved. But it is important to note that Scripture uses this same word—salvation—in various forms to describe many other things man must do in order "to be saved." The one who "believes and is baptized shall be saved" (Mark 16:16). The one who "endures to the end shall be saved" (Matt. 10:22). Indeed, the very same words used by Paul in Romans 10:10, translated as "unto salvation" in the Douay-Rheims Bible (Greek eis soterian), are used to teach Christians we must ". . . long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up to salvation" (1 Pet. 2:2). They are also used to challenge Christians to repent of their sins: "For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation" (2 Cor. 7:10). The fact that we must repent, be baptized, grow, confess Christ, and endure until the end in order to be saved indicates salvation is a process. There is no doubt that Paul was speaking of part of this process in Romans 10:9–10. However, there is nothing in that text that would lead us to believe he is speaking of how a person is born again.

This leads us to the most important point. Both Catholics and Protestants agree that Jesus’ words—unless one is born anew (or, again)—speak of man’s initial entrance into the body of Christ through God’s grace. The texts mentioned above by Protestants do not necessarily refer to the initial grace of salvation. What does the Bible teach is the instrument whereby one first enters into Christ? This would be precisely what we are talking about when we speak of being "born again." The good news is Scripture makes it abundantly clear: We are incorporated into the Body of Christ through baptism.

Romans 6:3–4: Are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life.
Galatians 3:27: For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:13: For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit (see also Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, and Col. 2:11–13).
If baptism is the way the unsaved are brought into Christ, no wonder Christ spoke of being "born of water and spirit." Baptism is the instrument of new birth according to the New Testament.


Spirit vs. Water

Many Fundamentalists will claim we are confusing spiritual baptism with water baptism. Again, they would say, water baptism does not save you. And they will often point to 1 Corinthians 12:13, quoted above, to "prove" their point. Notice, they say, the text teaches it is the Spirit who baptizes us into Christ, not a man!

The Catholic Church agrees that it is the Holy Spirit incorporates us into Christ, just as it is the Holy Spirit who "convince[s] the world of sin and of righteousness and of judgment," according to John 16:8. But the Holy Spirit uses human instruments to convey the message. "How shall they hear without a preacher?" (Rom. 10:14). The Bible certainly teaches that baptism is the Holy Spirit’s instrument to bring humanity into the Body of Christ as we have seen. But because God uses human beings to baptize, this does not mean it is any less the work of the Spirit through them.

As far as baptism saving us, the Bible could hardly be plainer. In Acts 2:38, St. Peter declared: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." In Acts 22:16, Ananias announced to St. Paul who had already professed faith in Jesus as Lord in verse 10: ". . . rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name." And 1 Peter 3:20–21 records these plain words: ". . . in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ." According to the Bible, baptism is not the mere removal of dirt from the body, but Christ’s instrument in purging our conscience from sin. That is what being "born-again" is all about!

beloved57
July 12th, 2014, 05:05 AM
I got as far as ''born again'' and no further. The fact you use the term means you either don't understand the doctrine behind the words or that you don't care about spreading false interpretations. Either way I wouldn't waste the time of day reading your tailored dogma.

So you are not going to do as asked, no problem !

Posted from the TOL App!

Truster
July 12th, 2014, 05:25 AM
So you are not going to do as asked, no problem !

Posted from the TOL App!

Do as asked? I am a man under authority and always do as I am bid, but you wouldn't understand that.

CatholicCrusader
July 12th, 2014, 05:40 AM
........I am a man under authority and always do as I am bid.........
You are a man under delusions, and I shudder to think who's bidding you do.

beloved57
July 12th, 2014, 05:53 AM
Do as asked? I am a man under authority and always do as I am bid, but you wouldn't understand that.

See you at the Judgment !

Posted from the TOL App!

beloved57
November 1st, 2014, 11:34 PM
Why the necessity of the New Birth to Believe and or receive the Truth ? You see believing the Truth is receiving the Love of it, its not just an Intellectual mind acceptance, though an mind comprehension is required, For Paul writes that the reprobate receive not the Love of the Truth 2 Thess 2:10

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Receiving the Love of the Truth denotes an Heart felt affection for it, which is given in the New Birth as described in Heb 8:10

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Please notice here the law of God being put into the Mind and written in the Heart, which Law converts the soul Ps 19:7

7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Its put into the Mind, the Intellect for Spiritual persuaion and intelligent understanding, for by nature the mind is darkened Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

The word understanding dianoia means:

the mind as a faculty of understanding, feeling, desiring

But the Heart goes deeper, its root into the affections, and it becomes something we love, David said Ps 119:97

O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.

Ps 119:163

I hate and abhor lying: but thy law do I love.

See David as well as all True Believers had experienced the New Covenant Mercy of Heb 8:10, God's Gospel Laws in Christ written in his heart.

Recall how Jesus implied that some receive the Truth in their minds only, yet without it being rooted in their hearts and affections, the stony heart hearers Matt 13:20-21

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

As you can see, it was received in the mind with joy Vs 20 but in Vs 21 it took no heart root !

See Mark 4:16-17 ; Luke 8:13 !

This happens when we have but a carnal intellectual acceptance of the Truth, much like the ones of 2 Peter 2:20-21,

But it was not both Intellectual and affectionately heart felt and embraced by the Power of the Holy Spirit, when Believing is the result of the New Covenant Blessing, it reaches both Mind and Heart and so Heb 8:10 is evident. The Sanctifying Work of the Spirit in us, not only gives us belief of the Truth as Per 2 Thess 2:13, but Love of it as well 2 Thess 2:10

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

In order to receive it in the Love of it, the Truth, threin lies the necessity of the New Birth Heb 8:10 !

oatmeal
November 1st, 2014, 11:36 PM
John 3:7

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

When Jesus told Nicodemus that except a man be born again he cannot see [perceive] the Kingdom of God as per vs 3

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

In essence, what Jesus meant, except ye are of that seed in Me, by being Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World [Eph 1:4] ye cannot see or understand the Kingdom of God, which is to include it's Gospel, The Gospel of the Kingdom or of the Kingdom of God. Matt 24:14

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


Mark 1:14

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Which are also the Kingdom Mysteries Luke 8:10

And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Now, even though Jesus was giving a condition " except ye be born again ", yet He was not giving a imperative or duty for one to perform to become born again; because there is nothing a person can do to be born; even if it was for us to go back into our mothers womb, [ which its not] how could we accomplish that ? Could we make ourselves fetuses again ? Would that be in our ability ?

But nevertheless, Christ meant what He said in stating that 'Ye must be born Again " !

Well, I am born again of incorruptible seed, I Peter 1:23

I received that when I did Romans 10:9-10

God saved me from corruptibility

beloved57
November 1st, 2014, 11:37 PM
Well, I am born again of incorruptible seed, I Peter 1:23

I received that when I did Romans 10:9-10

God saved me from corruptibility

We will see at the Judgment, however you dont even believe the Gospel !

Truster
November 2nd, 2014, 12:41 AM
John 3:7

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

When Jesus told Nicodemus that except a man be born again he cannot see [perceive] the Kingdom of God as per vs 3

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

In essence, what Jesus meant, except ye are of that seed in Me, by being Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World [Eph 1:4] ye cannot see or understand the Kingdom of God, which is to include it's Gospel, The Gospel of the Kingdom or of the Kingdom of God. Matt 24:14

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


Mark 1:14

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Which are also the Kingdom Mysteries Luke 8:10

And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Now, even though Jesus was giving a condition " except ye be born again ", yet He was not giving a imperative or duty for one to perform to become born again; because there is nothing a person can do to be born; even if it was for us to go back into our mothers womb, [ which its not] how could we accomplish that ? Could we make ourselves fetuses again ? Would that be in our ability ?

But nevertheless, Christ meant what He said in stating that 'Ye must be born Again " !

You must be physically and spiritually born above (again) and not just accept the theology of it. It matters not how much zeal you have for the doctrine of salvation, because unless you've experienced salvation you are just a resounding gong and a clanging cymbal.

beloved57
November 2nd, 2014, 01:40 AM
You must be physically and spiritually born above (again) and not just accept the theology of it. It matters not how much zeal you have for the doctrine of salvation, because unless you've experienced salvation you are just a resounding gong and a clanging cymbal.

You are in unbelief, thats an evidence that one has not been born again !

Truster
November 2nd, 2014, 02:12 AM
You are in unbelief, thats an evidence that one has not been born again !

And you have no idea what belief means....so....

beloved57
November 2nd, 2014, 03:05 AM
And you have no idea what belief means....so....

I know you dont believe the Gospel and in Jesus Christ !

beloved57
January 7th, 2015, 04:14 AM
The New Birth is that evidence that Jesus Christ both died and rose again as our Surety and Saviour . Its very simple here, for instance, when adam sinned as our natural head, the consequences thereof is that we all by nature are born with a nature suitable to evidence that we are sinners, we inherit it; So likewise, when Christ our Spiritual Head obeyed the Law for us, the consequences thereof is that we all shall be given a Nature by New Birth suitable to evidence that we are made Righteous.

This is also what Rom 5:19 means

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The word made is the greek word kathistémi and one of its meanings is:

I set down, bring down to a place; I set in order, appoint, make, constitute.

This word constitute conveys Two Ideals,#1 to declare, show to be

In other words, we shall be declared or showed to be sinners based upon what adam did as our head !

#2 to render, make, cause to be"

This denotes the creation aspect of being shown to be either sinners or righteous . If Christ died for us and made us righteous just as sure as adam sinned for us and made us sinners, then just as sure as we did receive a birth and nature evidencing it, so likewise just as sure we shall receive a birth and nature evidencing we have been made Righteous !

Peter means this very thing here 2 Pet 1:3-4

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

By Divine Nature we understand a Spiritual Nature by New Birth, which is of a Divine Source !

And so we partake of a Spiritual Nature as Proof/evidence of Christ obeying and making us Righteous, just as we partook of a corrupt nature as proof/evidence of adam disobeying and making us sinners !

Nanja
January 7th, 2015, 07:43 AM
The New Birth is that evidence that Jesus Christ both died and rose again as our Surety and Saviour . Its very simple here, for instance, when adam sinned as our natural head, the consequences thereof is that we all by nature are born with a nature suitable to evidence that we are sinners, we inherit it; So likewise, when Christ our Spiritual Head obeyed the Law for us, the consequences thereof is that we all shall be given a Nature by New Birth suitable to evidence that we are made Righteous.

This is also what Rom 5:19 means

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The word made is the greek word kathistémi and one of its meanings is:

I set down, bring down to a place; I set in order, appoint, make, constitute.

This word constitute conveys Two Ideals,#1 to declare, show to be

In other words, we shall be declared or showed to be sinners based upon what adam did as our head !

#2 to render, make, cause to be"

This denotes the creation aspect of being shown to be either sinners or righteous . If Christ died for us and made us righteous just as sure as adam sinned for us and made us sinners, then just as sure as we did receive a birth and nature evidencing it, so likewise just as sure we shall receive a birth and nature evidencing we have been made Righteous !

Peter means this very thing here 2 Pet 1:3-4

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

By Divine Nature we understand a Spiritual Nature by New Birth, which is of a Divine Source !

And so we partake of a Spiritual Nature as Proof/evidence of Christ obeying and making us Righteous, just as we partook of a corrupt nature as proof/evidence of adam disobeying and making us sinners !


Excellent analogy, and simple to understand.
And the action on the one receiving it
is completely passive on both accounts:
Adam's sin nature, and the New Nature in Christ.

~~~~~

dreadknought
January 7th, 2015, 08:03 AM
Passive, :up:

Nanja
January 7th, 2015, 08:17 AM
Passive, :up:

Amen!

~~~~~

beloved57
January 7th, 2015, 08:57 AM
Excellent analogy, and simple to understand.
And the action on the one receiving it
is completely passive on both accounts:
Adam's sin nature, and the New Nature in Christ.

~~~~~

Amen, and Glory to God !

beloved57
January 14th, 2015, 12:44 PM
One of the reasons, and a important one at that, as to why one must be born again before they believe on Christ, Obey the Gospel as these did not do Rom 10:16

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

And how these do Rom 6:17

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Its because By nature, all men are at enmity to God and not subject to the Law of God, and more importantly" NEITHER INDEED CAN BE "

Dont just take my word for it, here its stated by the Word of God Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

You may say, but that says, they are not subject to the Law of God ! Thats Right, which means they cannot be subject to God Period ! God is His Law, there is No God without God's Law !

Also the word Law in Rom 8:7 is not just specifically speaking of God's Law of Moses or the Ten Commandments, Paul Law in general, because the enmity is against God, so the word Law NOMOS:

usage, custom, law; in NT: of law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general.

(nómos) is used of: a) the Law (Scripture), with emphasis on the first five books of Scripture; or b) any system of religious thinking (theology), especially when nomos occurs without the Greek definite article.

The Carnal mind is not subject to the Commanding of God, and it cannot be.

Now with this fact established any Gospel Commands such as Repentance Acts 17:31

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Believing on the Name of Christ as Commanded by God 1 Jn 3:23

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

So without first being Born Again, to bring one out of the domain of the carnal flesh, man cannot obey any Gospel Command of Faith and Repentance toward God Acts 20:21

21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

And remember the carnal mind is enmity against God Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

So it cant have repentance toward God, its Impossible !

Nanja
January 15th, 2015, 09:26 AM
One of the reasons, and a important one at that, as to why one must be born again before they believe on Christ, Obey the Gospel as these did not do Rom 10:16

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

And how these do Rom 6:17

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Its because By nature, all men are at enmity to God and not subject to the Law of God, and more importantly" NEITHER INDEED CAN BE "

Dont just take my word for it, here its stated by the Word of God Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

You may say, but that says, they are not subject to the Law of God ! Thats Right, which means they cannot be subject to God Period ! God is His Law, there is No God without God's Law !

Also the word Law in Rom 8:7 is not just specifically speaking of God's Law of Moses or the Ten Commandments, Paul Law in general, because the enmity is against God, so the word Law NOMOS:

usage, custom, law; in NT: of law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general.

(nómos) is used of: a) the Law (Scripture), with emphasis on the first five books of Scripture; or b) any system of religious thinking (theology), especially when nomos occurs without the Greek definite article.

The Carnal mind is not subject to the Commanding of God, and it cannot be.

Now with this fact established any Gospel Commands such as Repentance Acts 17:31

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Believing on the Name of Christ as Commanded by God 1 Jn 3:23

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

So without first being Born Again, to bring one out of the domain of the carnal flesh, man cannot obey any Gospel Command of Faith and Repentance toward God Acts 20:21

21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

And remember the carnal mind is enmity against God Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

So it cant have repentance toward God, its Impossible !


Amen, totally impossible!

Yet that's what false religion teaches:
that repentance, believing on Christ,
or "placing one's faith in Christ",
are actions a person must perform to get himself saved.

But when a person is truly Born Again / Born from Above,
it's the evidence that they are of the Elect Seed, Chosen in Christ
before the foundation of the world; given to the Son of the Father
to be set-apart as His adopted Son Eph. 1:4-5. These are the only ones
who will obey, from their circumcised heart Rom 6:17; Rom. 2:29,
these Gospel commands perfectly because they are of "the many"
made Righteous by Christ Rom. 5:19 on their behalf.

~~~~~

OCTOBER23
January 15th, 2015, 09:28 AM
YOU WILL GET BORN AGAIN IN A NEW SILICON BODY

A SILICON BODY IS RESISTANT TO HEAT AND DOES NOT GROW OLD

YOU WILL PROGRESS TO NEWER MORE ADVANCED BODIES AS YOU DEVELOP IN CHARACTER.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Daniel 10:6 His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning,

and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass,

and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.


Revelation 10:1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven,

clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head,

and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3dwl_H3CHw

beloved57
January 15th, 2015, 09:49 AM
nanja


Yet that's what false religion teaches:
that repentance, believing on Christ,
or "placing one's faith in Christ",
are actions a person must perform to get himself saved.


Thats exactly what false religion teaches , with emphasis on FALSE !


But when a person is truly Born Again / Born from Above,
it's the evidence that they are of the Elect Seed, Chosen in Christ
before the foundation of the world; given to the Son of the Father
to be set-apart as His adopted Son Eph. 1:4-5. These are the only ones
who will obey, from their circumcised heart Rom 6:17; Rom. 2:29,
these Gospel commands perfectly because they are of "the many"
made Righteous by Christ Rom. 5:19 on their behalf.

Sure you right !

iamaberean
January 18th, 2015, 05:57 AM
John 3:7

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

When Jesus told Nicodemus that except a man be born again he cannot see [perceive] the Kingdom of God as per vs 3

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Jesus also said:
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

In essence, what Jesus meant, except ye are of that seed in Me, by being Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World [Eph 1:4] ye cannot see or understand the Kingdom of God, which is to include it's Gospel, The Gospel of the Kingdom or of the Kingdom of God. Matt 24:14

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
The gospel has been preached in all the world:

Col 1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
Col 1:6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

Mark 1:14
Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Which are also the Kingdom Mysteries Luke 8:10
And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
The mysteries are known by Christians:
Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Now, even though Jesus was giving a condition " except ye be born again ", yet He was not giving a imperative or duty for one to perform to become born again; because there is nothing a person can do to be born; even if it was for us to go back into our mothers womb, [ which its not] how could we accomplish that ? Could we make ourselves fetuses again ? Would that be in our ability ?

But nevertheless, Christ meant what He said in stating that 'Ye must be born Again " !

Peter was given the keys to the kingdom and he would preach about being born again of the water and the Spirit:
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The gift of the Holy Ghost is eternal life
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.
(Peter knew they had received the Holy Ghost because they heard them speak in tongues, that is the Spirit) Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water(this is the other part of being born again of the water and Spirit) , that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Peter didn't just tell them, he commanded them to be baptized.

beloved57
January 18th, 2015, 06:10 AM
What is your point ?

beloved57
March 2nd, 2015, 05:22 PM
Repentance in Gospel Obedience is required as an evidence of a work of grace in ones heart, thats why the Apostles were commanded to preach it Lk 24:46-47

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 20:21

21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Repentance towards God denotes a turning from evil, a departing from it Ezk 14:6

Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.

Ezk 18:30

Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

Man by nature however cannot repent towards God, neither can he be subject to God Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

But in the Covenant of Mercy, God has provided for His Covenant Peoples repentance, for He has promised in Covenant Faithfulness to put the Fear of God in them that they shall not depart from Him Jer 32:40

And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

God does them good, by putting His Fear in their hearts, for you know , man by nature has not this fear of God before their eyes Rom 3:18

There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Yet its only when we receive of this Fear of God in our hearts, a product of regenerating Grace from the Spirit, its then we depart from evil Job 28:28

And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

But the Fear of the Lord is Just the beginning of Wisdom Ps 111:10

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

Prov 9:10

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Christ gives us the Spirit of Wisdom in measure because He is the Head of the Body Isa 11:1-3

And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;

3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

Prov 14:27

]The fear of the Lord [/U]is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death.

Thats how we depart from evil, from the snares of death, by the Fear of the Lord !

Yet the Fear of the Lord is non existent in every unregenerate man and women !

But without it, there is no Repentance towards God, so when one does Truly Repent towards God as exhorted, its an evidence of Regenerating Grace by the Spirit at work bringing forth fruit unto repentance !

wordsponge
March 3rd, 2015, 05:13 AM
The SECOND birth is the BIRTH of the Human Spirit.
CORRECT Baptism, calling on Our Maker, is critical.

chrysostom
March 3rd, 2015, 05:16 AM
born means to come out of

you first came out of your mother
and
then you come out of your body

beloved57
March 6th, 2015, 11:34 PM
Jn 14:9

Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

Yes, Jesus was speaking to His Disciples at the time He stated this Truth, but yet it was not limited to them alone, but was a promise for all those whom He died and rose again in behalf of. He Lived again / resurrection after having died for or because of their offences Rom 4:25, and because He Lived afterwards, hence they[those whom sins He died for] shall Live also, that was the point in Him rising from the dead, for their Justification.

Now what Jesus is promising to the entire ransomed Church of God is Life from the dead, regeneration or new birth. Because the Head Lives, the Body shall live also !

The Promise of their regeneration is stated again here Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

We become willing servants of Christ in the Day of His Spirit regenerating us, much like how Paul did who was moments before saul the persecutor ! In the Day of Christ's Power see how willing he became Acts 9:1-6

And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

This was Christ's Power that wrought this change in saul, it was not his own freewill as many deceivers would tell us !

Paul was not forced into submission to Christ, no he did it voluntarily, but yet it was effected by the Power of Christ, his volunteerism was the effect of the Day of Christ's Power !

The reason why all of the sudden he was so willing to serve Him that only moments ago he hated, its because he was by the Power of regeneration given a New Mind Heb 8:10

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Heb 10:16

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Because the Old mind is enmity towards Christ, even as saul demonstrated before becoming paul Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Thats why regeneration for the People of God is a absolute must and why its Promised through the Merits of Christ's Death !

Truster
March 7th, 2015, 01:47 AM
''Paul was not forced into submission to Christ, no he did it voluntarily, but yet it was effected by the Power of Christ, his volunteerism was the effect of the Day of Christ's Power !''

This is simply guess work on your part. If you'd had the experience of regeneration yourself you wouldn't think nor write such rubbish.

beloved57
March 7th, 2015, 04:54 AM
''Paul was not forced into submission to Christ, no he did it voluntarily, but yet it was effected by the Power of Christ, his volunteerism was the effect of the Day of Christ's Power !''

This is simply guess work on your part. If you'd had the experience of regeneration yourself you wouldn't think nor write such rubbish.

You are a unbeliever !

Truster
March 7th, 2015, 04:57 AM
You are a unbeliever !

To believe means to psych up the mental attributes and anyone can do this. Belief is not a spiritual gift and is inherent in man.

beloved57
March 7th, 2015, 05:11 AM
To believe means to psych up the mental attributes and anyone can do this. Belief is not a spiritual gift and is inherent in man.

You havent believed the Gospel, so there is no proof you are saved, your experiences mean nothing !

newbirth
March 7th, 2015, 06:43 AM
Hi , and I know that I have asked you this question on other sites .

Where does Paul say that the MEMBERS of the Body of Christ need to be " born again " ???? and I personally ony accept what Paul says in this OUT of context question , bet you can not !!! dan p

Paul does not use the words born again...

Colossians 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Ephesians 4:23
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

2 Corinthians 4:16
For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Paul says follow him as he follows Christ...he did not say take your eyes off Christ...

1 Corinthians 11:1
Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Truster
March 7th, 2015, 06:58 AM
You havent believed the Gospel, so there is no proof you are saved, your experiences mean nothing !

My regeneration and life run in parallel with all the scriptures teach. When I read the Psalms it like reading a commentary on my life. When David rejoices I know how he feels. When he asks O my soul why are thou cast down? I know why he's asking.
When he says, 'I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments' I know why David is saying this and I can empathise with him.

You are nothing but a proselyte, an arminian in Calvinistic clothing and an antinomian. You can't trust that a man is saved by grace, because you think a man is saved by creeds, Tulips and twisted doctrines.

beloved57
March 7th, 2015, 07:34 AM
My regeneration and life run in parallel with all the scriptures teach. When I read the Psalms it like reading a commentary on my life. When David rejoices I know how he feels. When he asks O my soul why are thou cast down? I know why he's asking.
When he says, 'I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments' I know why David is saying this and I can empathise with him.

You are nothing but a proselyte, an arminian in Calvinistic clothing and an antinomian. You can't trust that a man is saved by grace, because you think a man is saved by creeds, Tulips and twisted doctrines.

If you have been regenerated you should believe the gospel!

oatmeal
March 7th, 2015, 07:35 AM
We will see at the Judgment, however you dont even believe the Gospel !

What would you know?

I John 5:13 I know I have eternal life, why don't you?

beloved57
March 7th, 2015, 07:41 AM
What would you know?

I John 5:13 I know I have eternal life, why don't you?

When did you believe the gospel? Tulip is the Gospel!

Nanja
March 7th, 2015, 08:56 AM
Jn 14:9

Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

Yes, Jesus was speaking to His Disciples at the time He stated this Truth, but yet it was not limited to them alone, but was a promise for all those whom He died and rose again in behalf of. He Lived again / resurrection after having died for or because of their offences Rom 4:25, and because He Lived afterwards, hence they[those whom sins He died for] shall Live also, that was the point in Him rising from the dead, for their Justification.

Now what Jesus is promising to the entire ransomed Church of God is Life from the dead, regeneration or new birth. Because the Head Lives, the Body shall live also !

The Promise of their regeneration is stated again here Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

We become willing servants of Christ in the Day of His Spirit regenerating us, much like how Paul did who was moments before saul the persecutor ! In the Day of Christ's Power see how willing he became Acts 9:1-6

And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

This was Christ's Power that wrought this change in saul, it was not his own freewill as many deceivers would tell us !

Paul was not forced into submission to Christ, no he did it voluntarily, but yet it was effected by the Power of Christ, his volunteerism was the effect of the Day of Christ's Power !

The reason why all of the sudden he was so willing to serve Him that only moments ago he hated, its because he was by the Power of regeneration given a New Mind Heb 8:10

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Heb 10:16

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Because the Old mind is enmity towards Christ, even as saul demonstrated before becoming paul Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Thats why regeneration for the People of God is a absolute must and why its Promised through the Merits of Christ's Death !


Amen to all posted!

Those who shall be made willing in the Day of His Power are those Chosen in Christ
before time to the Adoption of Sons, Eph. 1:4; 2 Tim. 1:9, just as Paul was Acts 9:15:
Christ's Body, of which He is the Head, the only ones His Death was for Eph. 1:7; Rom. 4:25.
They all shall be born into His Kingdom by becoming Spiritually Alive in the New Birth!

~~~~~

beloved57
March 7th, 2015, 09:01 AM
Amen to all posted!

Those who shall be made willing in the Day of His Power are those Chosen in Christ
before time to the Adoption of Sons, Eph. 1:4; 2 Tim. 1:9, just as Paul was Acts 9:15:
Christ's Body, of which He is the Head, the only ones His Death was for Eph. 1:7; Rom. 4:25.
They all shall be born into His Kingdom by becoming Spiritually Alive in the New Birth!

~~~~~

I knew you would be the only one who would be able to understand this truth praise the Lord!

Nanja
March 7th, 2015, 09:03 AM
I knew you would be the only one who would be able to understand this truth praise the Lord!

O Praise Him!

~~~~~

Truster
March 7th, 2015, 09:04 AM
If you have been regenerated you should believe the gospel!

You don't even understand the words you use are not true translations. You are just repeating things you've heard without checking to see if its correct.

beloved57
March 7th, 2015, 09:08 AM
You don't even understand the words you use are not true translations. You are just repeating things you've heard without checking to see if its correct.

How can you claim to be regenerated when you reject the gospel?

beloved57
March 7th, 2015, 09:10 AM
One of the primary reasons for regeneration is that men might believe the gospel because by nature man cannot believe the gospel!

oatmeal
March 7th, 2015, 09:38 AM
One of the primary reasons for regeneration is that men might believe the gospel because by nature man cannot believe the gospel!

Noah never believed? Moses didn't ?

Abraham? David?

Really?

beloved57
March 7th, 2015, 09:46 AM
Noah never believed? Moses didn't ?

Abraham? David?

Really?

I have no idea what you talking about you are in a totally different religion than I am!

Truster
March 7th, 2015, 09:59 AM
How can you claim to be regenerated when you reject the gospel?

I don't reject the evangelism.

beloved57
March 7th, 2015, 10:01 AM
I don't reject the evangelism.

You reject qospel, that is a indicator that you are not regenerate!

Truster
March 7th, 2015, 11:12 AM
You reject qospel, that is a indicator that you are not regenerate!

You wouldn't have an indicator that could make the judgement.

beloved57
March 7th, 2015, 11:35 AM
You wouldn't have an indicator that could make the judgement.

How can a regenerate person be so mixed up about the Gospel as you are?

beloved57
March 7th, 2015, 04:48 PM
The Promise of Psalm 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

Whenever we see the word shall as it pertains to Divine Things it generally will mean predestination, something shall be because God predetermined it to be, and that is a sure foundation ! This promise looks to regeneration, for after we are regenerated or born anew by the Spirit we seek to please God and obey His statues Ezk 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Thats being made willing in the Day of His Power !

I will put my Spirit within you ! And what does the Spirit do ? Jn 6:63

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The Spirit He puts within us quickeneth us, the word zōopoieō means :


I.to produce alive, begat or bear living young


II.to cause to live, make alive, give life

A.by spiritual power to arouse and invigorate

to excite or activate, to fill with energy, strength, or vigor.

The Spirit activates us unto Living and obeying God, to submit to God !

By Nature we are at enmity with God and will not be subject to Him Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Notice 3 things here about the carnal mind we all have by nature :

1. It is enmity against God !

2. It is not subject to the Law of God, so therefore it is not subject to God !

3. Neither can it be subject to God, it does not even have the ability to be !

man by nature opposes God and rebels against Him . So the Resurrected Christ provides for that enmity and rebellion by regeneration, the Gift of the Spirit, and so we read Ps 68:18

Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the Lord God might dwell among them.

Yeah for the rebellious ! That word means:

I.to rebel, be stubborn, be rebellious, be refractory,

Those fallen away, those who refuse to submit !

Well the Risen and ascended Christ gives gifts for that in order that God may dwell among them, and they become His Temple ! 2 Cor 6:16

And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Christ subdues God's People unto Him, so that they shall Live unto God Rom 6:10-11

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Because He lives and is alive to God, so shall them He died and arose again, shall liveth unto God, through Him !

They shall be Born Again, Guaranteed !

Nanja
March 8th, 2015, 07:46 AM
The Promise of Psalm 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

Whenever we see the word shall as it pertains to Divine Things it generally will mean predestination, something shall be because God predetermined it to be, and that is a sure foundation ! This promise looks to regeneration, for after we are regenerated or born anew by the Spirit we seek to please God and obey His statutes Ezk 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Thats being made willing in the Day of His Power !

I will put my Spirit within you ! And what does the Spirit do ? Jn 6:63

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The Spirit He puts within us quickeneth us, the word zōopoieō means :


I.to produce alive, begat or bear living young


II.to cause to live, make alive, give life

A.by spiritual power to arouse and invigorate

to excite or activate, to fill with energy, strength, or vigor.

The Spirit activates us unto Living and obeying God, to submit to God !

By Nature we are at enmity with God and will not be subject to Him Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Notice 3 things here about the carnal mind we all have by nature :

1. It is enmity against God !

2. It is not subject to the Law of God, so therefore it is not subject to God !

3. Neither can it be subject to God, it does not even have the ability to be !

man by nature opposes God and rebels against Him . So the Resurrected Christ provides for that enmity and rebellion by regeneration, the Gift of the Spirit, and so we read Ps 68:18

Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the Lord God might dwell among them.

Yeah for the rebellious ! That word means:

I.to rebel, be stubborn, be rebellious, be refractory,

Those fallen away, those who refuse to submit !

Well the Risen and ascended Christ gives gifts for that in order that God may dwell among them, and they become His Temple ! 2 Cor 6:16

And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Christ subdues God's People unto Him, so that they shall Live unto God Rom 6:10-11

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Because He lives and is alive to God, so shall them He died and arose again, shall liveth unto God, through Him !

They shall be Born Again, Guaranteed !


Powerful, edifying study. TY!

~~~~~

beloved57
March 8th, 2015, 07:49 AM
Powerful, edifying study. TY!

~~~~~

Bless the Lord!

Nanja
March 8th, 2015, 07:53 AM
Bless the Lord!

And the Church says, Amen!

~~~~~

beloved57
March 11th, 2015, 10:33 AM
Jesus said to one that would belive on Him these words Jn 3:4-7

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

The word Ye here is in the singular, for Jesus is specifically speaking of Nicodemus, who would later believe on Him as the record indicates Jn 19:38-40

38 And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.

39 And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight.

40 Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.

Jesus said to him Ye must be born again ! The word must is the greek word dei and means:

I.it is necessary, there is need of, it behooves, is right and proper

A.necessity lying in the nature of the case

And that necessity in the nature of the case is that all men, but in particular the Elect of God are without it are in a state of spiritual death, along with the non elect vessels of wrath, they are dead in sin Eph 2:1,5

And you[plural] hath he quickened, who were [B]dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

The word dead here in Vs 5 and vs 1 is the greek word nekros and means:

II.metaph.

A.spiritually dead

i.destitute of a life that recognises and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins


ii.inactive as respects doing right



B.destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative

This is the case of the Elect of God by nature that necessitates their need to be born again,

Luke 15:24

24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Matt 8:22

But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Its Illustrated what the Elect are by nature as dead here Ezk 37:2-4


The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,

2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.

3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live[from death]? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest.

4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.

5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:

6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

Without the breath of God in them, we are as dead man bones without Life and movement towards God.

We dont Live until breath is put into us, the breath is the Spirit of God in New Birth

That word breath in Ezk 37:5-6 also can be translated wind, which points to Jesus words here as it pertained to being born again Jn 3:7-8

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Thus the necessity of being Born Again in order to become Believers and followers of Jesus Christ, because of the elects dead spiritual state by nature !

beloved57
March 13th, 2015, 04:27 AM
Regeneration / New Birth is essential if we are ever to believe the True Gospel or Believe upon the True Christ from or with the Heart as Per Rom 10:10

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Now the Heart here does not mean that bodily organ that pumps blood throughout the physical body, it means :


ii.the centre and seat of spiritual life

a.the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavours


b.of the understanding, the faculty and seat of the intelligence


c.of the will and character



But now by nature, the unregenerate to include the Elect of God do have a heart of stone Ezk 36:26

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

In fact, the very words " I will give you an heart of flesh." is synonymous with New Birth or Regeneration,

Also the heart of the Elect by nature as well as the non elect is uncircumcised Acts 7:51

51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

But in regeneration we receive this Rom 2:29

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Thats what is meant in Ezk 36:26

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

By nature the heart is blinded and the understanding darkened Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

The word blindness here is the greek word pōrōsis:


I.the covering with a callus


II.obtrusiveness of mental discernment, dulled perception


III.the mind of one has been blunted

A.of stubbornness, obduracy

B.to grow hard, callous, become dull, lose the power of understanding

And in order to properly believe with the heart there must be a degree of understanding spiritually Jn 12:40

He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Matt 13:19,23

When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

This means the person received the seed of the word into good ground and understandeth it, it means they had been given an heart of flesh Ezk 36:26 in New Birth, a Circumcised Heart, else they could not have believed the Word of God !

beloved57
March 13th, 2015, 08:37 AM
The best the natural man can do without a new heart given in New Birth is to become a superficial believer, he may attain to a natural reception pf the Kingdom Truths of the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ as is pointed out here by the Lord Matt 13:20-21

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Now this shows that the unregenerated heart can receive the Gospel Truth in some manner, perhaps merely intellectually, yet notice that it does not take root in their heart, and sooner or later they stumble at it and become offended ! Luke states it that they shall fall away Lk 8:13

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

They believe only temporary is the awful indictment against them, then they must fall away in testing.

Now the word for fall away is aphistēmi and means:



I.to make stand off, cause to withdraw, to remove

A.to excite to revolt



II.to stand off, to stand aloof

A.to go away, to depart from anyone


B.to desert, withdraw from one


C.to fall away, become faithless


D.to shun, flee from


E.to cease to vex one


F.to withdraw one's self from, to fall away


G.to keep one's self from, absent one's self from


They do what John writes of here in His Epistle 1 Jn 2:19

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

In fact the word is the very same Paul uses here 1 Tim 4:1

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith of the Gospel, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Thats evidence of them having been stony heart hearers who later fall away like Jesus stated ! Its also evidence that they never had a regenerate heart, but they still have the heart of stone Ezk 36:26

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

So the stony heart here is the same as the Matt 13:20-21

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Yes they can receive it, but only to fall away from it, neither did they truly understand it, because they are contrasted with those who did receive it, but they understood it and bare fruit Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Please note, it was never stated that the stony ground hearer understood it !

And Understanding the Word with the heart is vital to conversion Jn 12:39-40

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Thats the indictment against the unregenerate heart in its inability to believe the Gospel, it may believe it superficially, but thats about it !

Thats why its essential for the Elect to be born again to believe the Gospel !

beloved57
April 29th, 2015, 04:19 AM
First of all it should be made clear that the New Birth is the answer [response] to the effects of Christ's Meritorious Death ! Its Merits, the Merits of His Blood is the Meritorious Cause of why is effected !

The New Birth is the Impartation of Spiritual Life inwardly See Ezk 11:9;36:26 into all for whom He died, and as a result abolishing death for them 2 Tim 1:10, and since this is True, to them He abolished for, He becomes a Quickening/ Life Giving Spirit which results in the New Birth ! Jn 5:21

21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth or gives life to whom he will.

And the Spirit is the Instrumental means by which He quickens Jn 6:63

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth or gives life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Now for all whom He died, He abolished death for them, which as a result and motive, He gives life from the dead, which is a confirmation that for them He has abolished their death !

IHaveGodInMe
April 29th, 2015, 04:21 AM
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth or gives life to whom he will.


Correct! They do not listen to His Word or understand his second coming. This is basic to His Word. :peach:

Nanja
April 29th, 2015, 05:51 AM
First of all it should be made clear that the New Birth is the answer [response] to the effects of Christ's Meritorious Death ! Its Merits, the Merits of His Blood is the Meritorious Cause of why is effected !

The New Birth is the Impartation of Spiritual Life inwardly See Ezk 11:19;36:26 into all for whom He died, and as a result abolishing death for them 2 Tim 1:10, and since this is True, to them He abolished for, He becomes a Quickening/ Life Giving Spirit which results in the New Birth ! Jn 5:21

21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth or gives life to whom he will.




And the Spirit is the Instrumental means by which He quickens Jn 6:63

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth or gives life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Now for all whom He died, He abolished death for them, which as a result and motive, He gives life from the dead, which is a confirmation that for them He has abolished their death !



Amen! All the Chosen Elect of God Eph. 1:4-5, Christ's Sheep,
were in Union with Him before the foundation, and they were also
raised with Christ when He was raised from the dead Col. 2:13; Heb. 13:20.
He abolished Spiritual Death for them, and because as their Head,
He Lives John 14:19 KJV, they shall also, which means to be regenerated,
made Spiritually Alive Col. 1:18 by the Power of the Holy Spirit 1 Pet. 1:3; Ps. 110:3 KJV!

~~~~~

wordsponge
April 29th, 2015, 05:55 AM
How is someone born a SECOND time?

beloved57
April 29th, 2015, 06:24 AM
Amen! All the Chosen Elect of God Eph. 1:4-5, Christ's Sheep,
were in Union with Him before the foundation, and they were also
raised with Christ when He was raised from the dead Col. 2:13; Heb. 13:20.
He abolished Spiritual Death for them, and because as their Head,
He Lives John 14:19 KJV, they shall also, which means to be regenerated,
made Spiritually Alive Col. 1:18 by the Power of the Holy Spirit 1 Pet. 1:3; Ps. 110:3 KJV!

~~~~~

Amen, because He was their Surety when He died, His rising from the dead was also as their Surety, and as their Surety Head, He gives Life to the them, a Spiritual Resurrection from Spiritual Death, as Death could not hold Him in Death, it cannot hold those He died for in death, spiritual or otherwise !

Nanja
April 29th, 2015, 06:41 AM
Amen, because He was their Surety when He died, His rising from the dead was also as their Surety, and as their Surety Head, He gives Life to the them, a Spiritual Resurrection from Spiritual Death, as Death could not hold Him in Death, it cannot hold those He died for in death, spiritual or otherwise !

TY, perfectly stated!

~~~~~

beloved57
April 29th, 2015, 08:25 AM
Also in addition, the New Birth is the attending fruit of Christ's Righteousness having been Imputed to those He died for, because Righteousness demands Life Prov 12:28

28 In the way of righteousness is life: and in the pathway thereof there is no death.

And because Christ's Obedience unto death makes them He died for Righteous Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Then Life , Spiritual Life, must be granted to spiritually dead sinners whom He makes Righteous by His Obedience !

beloved57
April 30th, 2015, 05:19 AM
Life must follow Imputed Righteousness, and that is what Paul means in Rom 5:18

even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Because of Christ's Death, those He died for receive both Justification and Life. Life flows to them that have been Justified or made righteous by the obedience of one Rom 5:19b, and for all whom He rose again because of their Justification Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

And they receive the attending life for Prov 11:19

As righteousness tendeth to life: so he that pursueth evil pursueth it to his own death.

Prov 12:28

In the way of righteousness is life: and in the pathway thereof there is no death.

This is Spiritual Life and Eternal Life, and again Rom 5:18 informs us that Both Justification and Life are the fruits of Christ's Death ! The word Justification here in the text

I.the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him

II.abjuring to be righteous, justification

So Life given validates being made Righteous, which Life is New Birth !

beloved57
October 20th, 2015, 09:57 PM
1 Pet 1:3,23

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible[seed], by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Now understand something, before there can be a birth, life must exist, before a baby is born into the world Jn 16:21, they had life hidden inside the womb by creation power, and so one that is born again, a life they had already before it was manifested.

In the text this birth is of incorruptible seed, even the word of God, the Logos of God, the Lord Jesus Christ in preincarnate and prexisting state, before His Incarnation in which He was made flesh Jn 1:1,14

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

14 And the Word[logos] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Now in Him as the Logos/Word of God was Life Jn 1:4

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

And this Life which was in Him, was for men, but what men ? It was His Offspring, His Seed, which were all men who had been Chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4, His Church/Bride/Wife/Offspring, and they had a life in Christ the Logos, it was hidden in Him before all worlds Col 3:3

3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

And Paul directed this comment to the Elect of God Col 3:12

12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

Now again, this Life hid in Christ, the Elect of God had in Him before the foundation, even before the life natural they had in Adam at the beginning of the world, for Christ was their Head before Adam was, which life they had in Adam was corruptible, it fell by temptation of the flesh, and any fellowship with God was lost by it, and any hope of a restored Life and Fellowship with God, is in that Life they have hid in Christ, the Logos of God, which comes by Election Union Eph 1:4. Being born again of incorruptible seed, the Word/Logos of God is only possible if one had been Chosen in Him before the foundation, and by that had Life in Him Jn 1:4

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

And the Light is the Light of Life Jn 8:12

Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

beloved57
December 7th, 2015, 05:35 AM
Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

All for whom Christ died, tasted death for by the Grace of God Heb 2:9, have been Justified before God, cleared of all guilt and punishment due, Justified by His Grace also by Redemption Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: See Eph 1:7 also.

Now having been Justified by Grace, they shall be made Heirs according to the Hope of Eternal Life, that is made Heirs subjectively.

The word made here in Titus 3:7 is important, its the greek word ginomai and means:

I.to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being,

to cause to be, to be generated, create, evolve, originate

Here in the Salvation context of being made Heirs it speaking of being made a New Creature, New Birth or Generation. It agrees with Rom 5:19b How that by the obedience of one many shall be made Righteous, that is subjectively Righteous, just as by the disobedience of one Adam, many were made subjectively sinners, hence being born sinners with a nature to match, so being made righteous by Christ's obedience one shall be born righteous by New Birth of the Spirit, which makes them experimentally Heirs by Faith !

beloved57
February 24th, 2016, 03:18 AM
The New Birth/Spiritual Resurrection is one of the proofs/evidences that Christ died for us and was raised again for our Justification Rom 4:25 and that we were in Union with Him when He did it. This is what ensures our spiritual resurrection from being by nature dead in trespasses and sins Eph 2:1,5.

This is whay Jesus told nicodemus that he must be born again Jn 3, for by tellling him this it was a direct indication that nicodemus was one for whom He would die, and that being so, because He would rise from the dead, he must be born again or given new spiritual life from spiritual death.

Again thats why Paul writes to the Ephesian Believers this Eph 2:1-6

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

And why Peter wrote to believers saying 1 Pet 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


Because they were in Union with Him when He rose from the dead after having been delivered for their offences Rom 4:25, So Christ's resurrection from the dead was theirs, and receiveng spiritual life is proof of the same; this is so much so, that if one is not born again in this life, its a sure proof that they had no part in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, He did not die and raise for them !

Nanja
February 24th, 2016, 08:29 AM
The New Birth/Spiritual Resurrection is one of the proofs/evidences that Christ died for us and was raised again for our Justification Rom 4:25 and that we were in Union with Him when He did it. This is what ensures our spiritual resurrection from being by nature dead in trespasses and sins Eph 2:1,5.

This is whay Jesus told nicodemus that he must be born again Jn 3, for by tellling him this it was a direct indication that nicodemus was one for whom He would die, and that being so, because He would rise from the dead, he must be born again or given new spiritual life from spiritual death.

Again thats why Paul writes to the Ephesian Believers this Eph 2:1-6

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

And why Peter wrote to believers saying 1 Pet 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


Because they were in Union with Him when He rose from the dead after having been delivered for their offences Rom 4:25, So Christ's resurrection from the dead was theirs, and receiveng spiritual life is proof of the same; this is so much so, that if one is not born again in this life, its a sure proof that they had no part in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, He did not die and raise for them !

Precisely! ☺

~~~~~

beloved57
February 24th, 2016, 08:39 AM
Amen Sister!

jamie
February 24th, 2016, 08:50 AM
Those who are born of the flesh are flesh and flesh bleeds.

Those born of the Spirit do not bleed. They are invisible and immortal.

ClimateSanity
February 24th, 2016, 09:01 AM
Then nobody alive today is born of the Spirit.

jamie
February 24th, 2016, 09:04 AM
Then nobody alive today is born of the Spirit.


Jesus is born of the Spirit. He is immortal and invisible.