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beloved57
June 2nd, 2011, 09:35 AM
Matt 24:31

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Does God have a elect people ? There is one scripture that says God's own elect. Lk 18:7

7And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

Is the fact that God has an election a theory of a man name calvin, or is it a scriptural truth ? I believe those who in unbelief and disdain, that shrug off election and other similar truth's of scripture as that of being the mere opinion of a man, will have much to answer for in the day of Judgment, which is not far away.

I will by God's Grace provide scriptural proof that election is the word of God, in that God, before the world began, made a distinction, a election among His creature man, choosing who would be objects of His special and peculiar Love and Favor. To begin lets look at a few verses of scripture.

Deut 7:6; Ps 135:4; Isa 41:8-9

Deut 7:6

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

What is truly amazing, is that most adversaries of the blessed Truth of election, have no problem receiving this Truth here in Deut, however they accept it as being applied to a carnal, natural people, Natural Israel, ethnic jews, but they reject the ideal of it applying to a Spiritual People, of all different ethnicities, having been Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

I have news for you, the Chosen in Deut 7:6 are the same exact Chosen in Eph 1:4.

The Love God Loved them with in Deut 7:7

7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

This is the same Love spoken of in Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

God does not have different Love, its always grounded in His elective purpose in Christ Jesus per Rom 8:39

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Now what makes us believe that this Love in Rom 8:39 is any different from the Love of God spoken of in Deut 7:7 ?

There is no difference, its the same Love, for the same People, just that in Rom the Love is found out to be of a wider dimension than first revealed in Deut 7:6-7. For God so loved the World in that same manner Nicodemus. Jn 3:16. Thats Jesus point in Jn 3:16, that God had a Chosen, special, peculiar, people unto Himself, above all other People upon the Face of the earth.

James describe them here Acts 15:

13And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:

14Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

This is part of the same People God spoke to in Deut 7:6-7, but it was not known then, but they too are of the Seed of Abraham Gen 17:5

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

The Seed of Abraham, no matter what race or geographical location, are the Chosen or Elect of God.

bling
June 2nd, 2011, 10:48 AM
can you help me, I have been discussing this on another board:
1. Was there a time when Jewish Christians (elect) taught that a good Christian also had to be a good Jew (following especially the dietary requirements, Sabbath and circumcision)?
2. Was there at the same time these Jewish Christians teaching you a good Jew, Christians (elect) teaching you did not have to follow the old Jewish Laws (esp. Sabbath, circumcision, and food)?
3. Was this a significant issue in the first century church, did Paul address this problem in his letters, and when did this problem cease to be a problem?
4. Could there have been and were there Jewish Christians (elect) in Rome at the time of Romans teaching other Gentile Christians (elect) they had to (be circumcised, obey the Sabbath, and/or fool the Old Jewish dietary requirements)?
5. Was Roman written to non-Christians or to some non-Christians (non-elect)?

beloved57
June 3rd, 2011, 10:57 AM
There is absolutely no question, the meaning of Election is that God Almighty has made a clear Choice, for the very word signifies a selection and appointment. God has exercised His own Sovereign prerogative and picked out from among His creatures of mankind, those whom He purposed to save by His Grace. Ps 135:4

4For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.

Notice unto Himself ! Now compare that statement with this one Titus 2:14

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Same People are they not ? Remember Paul addressed this epistle as unto the Faith of God's Elect Titus 1:2

1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect [Chosen], and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Now it should be understood, there is no election or selection or choice, without a deliberate singling out, and no singling out without passing by or rejection of the rest as per Rom 11:7

7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

The rest ! The word rest is the greek word loipos:

with a certain distinction and contrast, the rest, who are not of a specific class or number

The rest here means those jews who are not of a specific class or number, which would be the Election of Grace, God's Chosen People. You see, just being an ethnic jew born in the Nation of Israel, did not make one Chosen of God, one of His elect.

bling
June 3rd, 2011, 11:01 AM
Could you just answer the questions: yes, no, or maybe?

coulter4president
June 3rd, 2011, 11:04 AM
Matt 24:31

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Does God have a elect people ? There is one scripture that says God's own elect. Lk 18:7

od.

the elect are tjhose who do what God wants... which probably means that some nonChristians may be getting to Heaven sooner than so called Christians...

I have been most abused by "Christians" than nonChristians... but maybe thats mor due to numbers... I mean, virtually everyone thinks he is a Christain... even says so... i guess what i mean is i have most been abused by those who SAY so....

talk is cheap

beloved57
June 3rd, 2011, 11:19 AM
Could you just answer the questions: yes, no, or maybe?

If you cannot perceive an answer to your inquiry from what has thus been posted, then no !

coulter4president
June 4th, 2011, 10:53 AM
If you cannot perceive an answer to your inquiry from what has thus been posted, then no !

i KNOW the feeling!!!!

(see thread "Y or N... hero or murderer"):dizzy:

beloved57
June 6th, 2011, 11:08 PM
Lets look at this principle of Divine Election within the writings of the NT. Matt 24:22,24, and 31

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And no, these scriptures do not pertain to all earthly jews, but people of every tribe and tongue.

Lk 18:7

7And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

Rom 8:33

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Rom 9:11

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

Paul preached the purpose of God according to election in His Gospel.

2 Tim 2:10

10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

This points to Eternal Salvation in Christ is for the elect's sake ! Christ must have died only for the elect !

bling
June 7th, 2011, 08:58 AM
If you cannot perceive an answer to your inquiry from what has thus been posted, then no !

So if Calvins cannot answer these simple questions, how can they expect to address the really hard questions?

beloved57
June 8th, 2011, 12:22 AM
Paul writes of the Elect Angels 1 Tim 5:21

21I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

If there are elect Angels, this presupposes there were non elect ones as well. It appears with these creatures as well God made a Sovereign Choice of them who would be vessels of Honor and those who would be vessels of dishonor. The elect Angels who maintained there integrity were made vessels of Honor to serve His Holy Purposes, but the non elect angels He made to rebel with their leader and apostatize to also serve His Purpose. Rev 12:4

4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

In regards to these apostate creatures we read 2 Pet 2:4

4For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

But these were different from those of the Elect Angels, the Election of Grace among them, for because of their Election they were confirmed in their Holiness. Their election was before their Holiness, hence securing it, just as some men are by election, Chosen unto Holiness Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

And note, the none elect angels that rebelled, God had no mercy on them. This is vital because many religionists appeal to God as being too merciful and too loving to punish sinners everlastingly, but this account refutes that heresy, for are not angels His creatures ? Was God not still Love, even though He obviously did not Love these rebellious creatures to be merciful unto them for their sin ? The Chosen among Men partake of His Great Love and Mercy in spite of their Sin Eph 2:4-5

4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

But, God chose not to show this rich mercy and great Love to the sinning angels. Could He if He so willed ? Yes He could have, but He chose not to. Was He still a God of Love as Per 1 John 4:8

He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

But that fact did not obligate God to Love and be merciful to those angels, as well as it does not obligate God to be Love and be merciful to non elect men and women who have sinned also. So it is, we have an biblical example of Election with the Angels, and so it is with men.

beloved57
July 26th, 2011, 01:59 PM
Things to know about all those God hath Chosen to Salvation !

2 Thess 2:13

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

That they were Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4 ! Thats why Paul says they were bound to give Thanks to God for them. Not their freewill choice or decision as the antichrist followers would have us believe.

That they are redeemed by the precious blood of Christ because they are Elect 1 Pet 1:2,18,19

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Lets look at the word redeemed here. It is the greek word lutroo and means:

to release on receipt of ransom
to redeem, liberate by payment of ransom
to liberate
to cause to be released to one's self by payment of a ransom
to redeem
to deliver: from evils of every kind, internal and external

Because the ransom price has been paid, the blood of Christ, they must be delivered from evil of every kind. One of the Evils they all are delivered from is unbelief. Yes Unbelief is a evil Heb 3:12

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

If one Christ died for, gave His life a ransom for, never becomes a believer or dies in unbelief, then that means Christ blood was defective.

That word unbelief is also used for paul here 1 Tim 1:13

13Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

But because Christ gave Himself for Paul , God delivered Him from unbelief .

So those Chosen before the world began are in time redeemed from evil or delivered from evil, especially that of unbelief, thats the power of the ransom blood of Christ.

beloved57
July 28th, 2011, 10:56 AM
Paul writing to those Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4 writes thusly

Eph 2:1-4

1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Even though by Nature the Elect, the Chosen are Children of wrath [deserving God's wrath] as others, they are nevertheless preserved under the Covenant of Grace, by that Grace given them in their Covenant Head Christ Jesus their Mediator before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

This Grace Given before the world began regards that Everlasting Covenant of Grace that Christ became the Surety of before the world began, and all them He represented, were given Grace in Him as He was their Head, and they His Spiritual Seed.

The elect of God , though by nature are prisoners and captives to satan, yet because of their Covenant Relationship in Christ, they are captives or prisoners of Hope ! God's elect are prisoners but their condition as such, though not known to them, is much different from others in the same condition. They are Covenant Prisoners,in a Covenant with God through their Mediator, the Lord Jesus Christ.

The rest have no hope ! Eph 2:12

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

beloved57
September 5th, 2011, 03:30 PM
Election, it is God's Sovereign work, so God must be Thanked for it, since He did it. 2 Thess 2:13

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

The cause of Election is God's discriminating Love to them from Everlasting, all who were Beloved of God, were chosen to salvation in Christ, for Jacob have I Loved !

Election took place in Eternity, for God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation.

Not as how the Antichrist ministers teach, that God from the beginning merely chose a plan ! See Eph 1:3-6

Election is unto Salvation [ Conversion]

Chosen to be saved through sanctification of the Spirit [ which is new birth] and Chosen to be saved through belief of the Truth !

beloved57
September 19th, 2011, 09:20 PM
Election is God's Sovereign work Rom 9:11-13

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

2 Thess 2:13

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Many will contend that this word chosen does not mean election, but it does. It is the greek word haireō:


to take for oneself, to prefer, choose

2) to choose by vote, elect to office

Its used 3 times as the word choose , our present verse, Phil 1:22 and Heb 11:25

Also the word is in the greek in the middle voice meaning He has chosen or preferred them for Himself !

So since it is God's work and His Sovereign choice or preference, Paul writes that God must be Thanked for it !

2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

The cause of Election is God's discriminating Love from Everlasting, all who were beloved of God were chosen to Salvation in Christ, and it was discriminating from Rom 9:13

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Election took place in Eternity, God hath from the beginning Chosen you to Salvation also see Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This is not as the false teachers today teach that God hath only chosen a plan of salvation.

Election is unto Salvation, that is deliverance and conversion in this life. God has chosen to save His preferred people by the means of Sanctification of the Spirit [regeneration] and belief of the Truth [faith]

This mean all for whom God has chosen to salvation, shall be given new birth and Faith. All this is God's Sovereign Work in Election, for each chosen vessel of mercy..

sky.
September 19th, 2011, 10:17 PM
Isaiah 59:17

17 For He put on righteousness as a breastplate,
And a helmet of salvation on His head;
He put on the garments of vengeance for clothing,
And was clad with zeal as a cloak.

Bradley D
September 19th, 2011, 10:56 PM
Scripture does indicate that God has a chosen elect. The thing is that we do not know who they all are. A sinner who seems to be heading to hell may see the light and be saved. A person who seems to be a perfect Christian may turn to a sinful life for the rest of their lives. Therefore I must not judge. I must live a good Christ-filled life and proclaim the Gospel.

beloved57
September 20th, 2011, 03:44 AM
brad


Scripture does indicate that God has a chosen elect.

Sure it does, that is Gospel, if not, there was no reason for Christ to die, no reason for the Gospel to be preached !


The thing is that we do not know who they all are.

So, God does !


A sinner who seems to be heading to hell may see the light and be saved


Thats right, Like the Apostle Paul. His Testimony is this 1 Tim 1:13-15

13Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

The other Apostles before him knew of his past history in persecuting the Church, but when they heard his testimony of the gospel they could perceive the grace of God in him and gave him the right hand of fellowship.

Gal 1:23-24

23But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.

24And they glorified God in me.

Gal 2:7-9

9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

And so it is now, if one has a testimony of the True Grace of God, the True Gospel of God, then out of charitableness we should count them among them who exhibit the Faith of God's Elect Titus 1:1

1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Thats it, if we can perceive that one acknowledges the Truth, more than likely they are of the Elect, if they persevere in that Truth against all opposition !



A person who seems to be a perfect Christian may turn to a sinful life for the rest of their lives.

Thats True, but one should not judge merely by outward appearance. Just because a person has a very religious life style, good morals and all of that, does not mean they are a Christian or were a Christian ! Did they acknowledge the Truth of the Gospel ?


Therefore I must not judge.

We must not Judge who is going to heaven or who is going to hell, but the Christian is to judge who to have fellowship with, to deny that is insanity.. How could we do as Jesus said in Jn 7:24

24Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. or the Apostle John 1 Jn 4:1

1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

How can you try the spirit of a prophet without judging the content of their testimony in order to tell if it is according to the Truth of scripture ? To forbid all judging is foolish and contrary to the scripture.


I must live a good Christ-filled life and proclaim the Gospel.

Oh really ? What is the Gospel to you ? Does it include that Christ died only for His Elect ? You do not have to know who they are to testify to that Truth..

Bradley D
September 21st, 2011, 12:03 AM
Thats True, but one should not judge merely by outward appearance. Just because a person has a very religious life style, good morals and all of that, does not mean they are a Christian or were a Christian ! Did they acknowledge the Truth of the Gospel ?

Isaiah 16:7 "But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."

Only God can truly see the inward man. Although I believe one's true intentions will show themselves eventually.

"How can you try the spirit of a prophet without judging the content of their testimony in order to tell if it is according to the Truth of scripture ? To forbid all judging is foolish and contrary to the scripture."

One knows if one is telling the truth by knowing their scripture. When judging another one better make sure their intentions are right.

As for preaching the Gospel. One has to determine whether a listener is ready for "meat" or is still on "milk" (I Corinthians 3:2). I must be careful not to cause anyone to trip up.

beloved57
September 21st, 2011, 05:10 AM
brad


Isaiah 16:7 "But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."


Not talking about God right now. Jesus said for Christians to Judge righteous Judgment Jn 7:24 and John wrote that Christians should try the spirits of those teaching Christ 1 Jn 4:1

1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

That takes making a Judgment. Now if it was no possibility at all for a believer to make a distancing as to what is True and False doctrine,this imperative is futile. If you cannot acknowledge something as reasonable as this, then this conversation is over, for you would not be showing reasonableness..and I don't time for that.

Bradley D
September 21st, 2011, 09:00 PM
I'm not saying we do not make judgements. But a Christian must be very careful when doing so. We must not make judgements to puff up ourselves. There must always be concern for others, even our enemies. "love your enemies."

beloved57
September 22nd, 2011, 01:53 AM
brad


I'm we do not saying not make judgements

You are a liar, you did say that ! Look, keep this thread about the fact that God has an Elect, all your other comments are not needed. You either believe God has an elect People, special from all others or you do not.

This thread is not about Christian duty ! What a Christian must do ! Its about what God has done !

Bradley D
September 22nd, 2011, 09:20 PM
You took my quote out of context.

beloved57
September 23rd, 2011, 04:11 AM
You took my quote out of context.

No I didn't, you are just trying to make amendments to what you first stated because now you realize how foolish and unreasonable it was. But you meant it, and you still do, and i am finished with it..This thread is about the biblical teaching of God's elect and then you intrude with accusations of one being Judgmental and lacking in love. God's election of people has nothing to do with Christian behaviour and duties.

Ted L Glines
September 23rd, 2011, 04:34 AM
can you help me, I have been discussing this on another board:
1. Was there a time when Jewish Christians (elect) taught that a good Christian also had to be a good Jew (following especially the dietary requirements, Sabbath and circumcision)?
2. Was there at the same time these Jewish Christians teaching you a good Jew, Christians (elect) teaching you did not have to follow the old Jewish Laws (esp. Sabbath, circumcision, and food)?
3. Was this a significant issue in the first century church, did Paul address this problem in his letters, and when did this problem cease to be a problem?
4. Could there have been and were there Jewish Christians (elect) in Rome at the time of Romans teaching other Gentile Christians (elect) they had to (be circumcised, obey the Sabbath, and/or fool the Old Jewish dietary requirements)?
5. Was Roman written to non-Christians or to some non-Christians (non-elect)?

The gut hunch that bubbles up from my studies is that there was a major schism among the Jews following the murder of Jesus; that many Jews went from Israel to Greece, and some to Rome, and others traveled into the Arab lands. The schism was about the status of Jesus. Under the pressure of this max exudus of Christian Jews, we saw the foundation of the new Christianity. At about the same time, the Christian Jews who fled into the Arab lands became the catalyst (spreading the story) for the new Islam. The Christian Jews would have been followers of the dietary laws, circumcision, etc., but I have read nothing about any controversy regarding these practices. Jesus appears to have been the prime mover with all else taking second place. In all probabilities, at least in Greece and Rome, the major controversy centered around converting people from the prevalent pagan practices and worship, and perhaps this was true in the beginnings of Islam, as well. I see no other way that Christianity could have been created the way it was, and, at the same time, to have had so much focus on Jesus in the Koran. I would like to learn more about this.

beloved57
September 30th, 2011, 12:03 AM
We know that there is a Elect People in the world by the designation in Rom 11:5

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

The Remnant of the Election of Grace. Now many adversaries of this Truth will object, that this scripture is referring to ethnic jews only, but that would be a assumption, it is speaking of the remnant of the election of grace among the jews, in this context, particularly Paul's kinsmen of the flesh, however the remnant of the election of grace is not limited to ethnic jews, Paul's kinsmen according to the flesh, but there are gentiles also of the remnant of the election of grace, who are not ethnic born jews. The Election of Grace is simply Salvation by Grace through Faith. To say therefore that the remnant according to the election of grace is restricted to only ethnic jews, Paul's kinsmen according to the flesh, is tantamount to saying that Salvation by Grace through Faith is limited to only ethnic jews ! How erroneous is that ? So the Elect is comprised of a remnant out of Mankind, some jews, and some gentiles !

beloved57
October 3rd, 2011, 04:38 PM
If there is an determined elect number that must and will be saved based upon the Person and Work of Christ, and this determined and fixed number will be no more or less than what it is, then some ask, why Preach the Gospel ? Why not Preach it is my answer ?

All things are said to be for the elect's sake Paul writing to God's Elect/Chosen in Corinth writes 1 Cor 3:21-23

21Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's;

22Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's;

23And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

So the Preaching of the Gospel is for their sakes, the Elect's sake 2 Tim 2:10

10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Paul endured much of His sufferings for Preaching, so that would be included in the all things that he endures for the Elect Sake. Just so they can hear the good news of their Salvation in Christ, their Election in Christ !

You see if there were no elect in the world, the preaching of the Gospel would not be needed, in fact, there would be no gospel if it had not been for God's Elect..

beloved57
October 3rd, 2011, 06:17 PM
We should know that Salvation is for a Specified group, by the term Children of Promise. This term cannot denote or be in line with a man freewill salvation, conditioned on man.

The Children of Promise Rom 9:8

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The Children of Promise is a seed. No one chooses by their freewill to be part of a seed.

Gal 4:28

Now we, brethren[Jew and Gentile Believers], as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

The Children of promise are not Children of promise because they believe on Christ, or because they accepted Jesus Christ in their heart, or because they repented of their sins, in fact, they did not do anything to be Children of Promise. Did Isaac do anything to be a Child of Promise ? Now who are the Children of Promise ? Rom 9:8

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The Children of Promise and the Children of God are the exact same Children. Now that means, they did not do anything to be the Children of God. They did not believe , they did not accept Christ as their Saviour, they did not repent of their sins, they did not do anything to become the Children of God, no more than they did to become the Children of Promise as Isaac .

Its by Election!

Salvation is for the Children, the Children of Promise ! Or the Children of the Covenant. Remember Peter said in Acts 3:25

Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Yes, The Children of the Promise and of the Covenant are the Same, and they are the Elect of God, Abraham's Children.

beloved57
October 4th, 2011, 12:00 PM
The scripture makes it quite clear that God has a Elect People, A Special People whom He set His Love upon from Everlasting, and it is all those He Loved and Chose in His Son before the world was Jn 17:23-24

23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

God Loved them [The Church] as He Loved His Son ! And as He Loved His Son before the foundation of the world, so Loved He all those Chosen in Him before the foundation of the world !

Lets notice how that phrase "before the foundation of the world" is used here and in Eph 1:4


4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Now we see how and why The Chosen were Loved by the Father before the foundation of the world, because they were One with Christ then, He the Head, they His Seed. For it is written Heb 2:11

11For both he that sanctifieth[Christ] and they who are sanctified [Those He offered Himself for]are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Just Like Adam and Eve were of One ! Gen 5:2

2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

So it should not be any misunderstanding who it is that is God's Special Chosen People Loved in Christ before the foundation of the world. These are not ethnic jews either, though some of them included, but its everyone, gentile or jew Chosen in Christ. Now was the book of Ephesians wrote only to ethnic jews ? No sir, but both jew and gentile believers in Christ ! Now these Chosen ones Eph 1:4 are God's Elect, a People He has Chosen to Salvation, and the Only People that God will Save, His Israel. It is these only that have been redeemed by the precious blood of Christ, because they were God's Elect or Chosen. Writing to them in 1 Pet 1:2,18-20

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Peter tells them [The Elect] this in verses 18-20


18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Notice, but was Manifest in these times FOR YOU ! That is the Elect of vs 2, not everyone without exception..

Now it should be noted that the Chosen in Eph 1:4 and the Elect in 1 Pet 1:2 are the same Persons, the same greek word is used in the greek ! The word in Eph 1:4 is:eklegomai and means:

to pick out, choose, to pick or choose out for one's self

a) choosing one out of many, i.e. Jesus choosing his disciples

b) choosing one for an office

c) of God choosing whom he judged fit to receive his favours and separated from the rest of mankind to be peculiarly his own and to be attended continually by his gracious oversight

In 1 Pet 1:2 it is the word eklektos:

picked out, chosen

a) chosen by God,

1) to obtain salvation through Christ

a) Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God

This word is from the preceding one of Eph 1:4 The obvious connection is picked out, Chosen by God.

This is just as the Israelites were Chosen or picked out separate from all other People of the Earth Deut 7:6-7

6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

As we can see, God's Love and God's choosing go hand and hand. God does not Love whom He did not Choose in Christ !

A word about Deut 7:6-7, God was talking about His Elect in Christ here that He Loved and Chose, and not the whole Nation as a Whole, remember, many were called, but only few were Chosen ! The words of those verses therefore could not apply to all of that Nation without exception, because all without exception were not Chosen ! It was only a remnant according to the Election of Grace Rom 11:5

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

That would be those ethnic jews who were given Grace in Christ Jesus before the world began, along with elect gentiles 2 Tim 1:9

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

beloved57
October 5th, 2011, 05:12 AM
1 Peter 1:1-3

1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Pet 2:9


9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Many adversaries of the Truth try to tell us that 1 Peter is written to only ethnic jews, and so would have us to believe that where Peter calls them the Elect and a Holy Nation, that this is only to the ethnic jews. There is two reasons for this. #1 Because of the designation of an Holy Nation found in Exodus 19:6

And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

And because Peter calls them strangers scattered in vs 1

They believe it only pertains to jewish believers who were scattered from the persecution here Acts 8:1

1And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

Scripture here plainly informs us that it was the Church scattered. Yes it may have been comprised early on with believing ethnic jews, but nevertheless it was still the Church. What Church ? This One Matt 16:18

18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

It was Christ's Church, His Body !

This Church Acts 20:28

28Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.


It is the Church that was purchased with His own Blood ! Now, is this Church restricted to only ethnic jews ? If not, then neither is the Church in Acts 8:1

So the question is asked again, was 1 Peter written only to ethnic jews ? No it was not, it was written to believers in Christ, His Church, where there is neither jew or gentile, but both are One in Christ Eph 2:14

14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

This letter was written to believers, Christ Sheep, scattered throughout the Roman Province, Pontus, Galatia [as in Galatians where we know gentile believers existed] Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia. This was a very ethnic diverse province, influenced by Grecio Roman Culture. That some of the recipients were probably gentiles is true because of 1 Pet 1:14

14As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

The term former ignorance is a gentile perception Acts 17:30

30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Acts 14:15-16

15And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

16Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.

We are also aware that ethnic jews ,who before conversion, though very zealous in the jews religion, also were in Ignorance Rom 10:1-3

1Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

So 1 Pet 1:14 can actually apply to either or, jews or gentiles, but the point is now, that they are Believers in Christ, together they make up an Holy Nation 1 Pet 2:9..

beloved57
October 5th, 2011, 11:58 PM
Eph 1:3-4

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

All of the Elect, the Chosen of God shall be given in time, all necessary spiritual blessings to save them experientially by Grace, By Grace through Faith. They will be given a New Birth, they will be Called, and shall be experientially saved because they are the Special Chosen of God, and through Christ death all has been secured for them, He is a Complete Saviour unto them ! For God hath raised up unto Israel [ Elect People] a Saviour ! Acts 13:23

Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel[His Elect] a Saviour, Jesus:

beloved57
October 6th, 2011, 07:52 AM
All of these Elect shall be preserved unto Eternal Glory, simply because they are God's very own Elect.. 1 Thess 5:23

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Who is Paul writing to here but those Chosen of God 1 Thess 2:13

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

1 Thess 1:4

Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

BTW, this statement indicates for sure that Paul preached Election to them in His Gospel, how else would he refer them back to that subject ? " Knowing your election of God ? The word knowing here is the greek word eido and means:

to see
to perceive with the eyes
to perceive by any of the senses
to perceive, notice, discern, discover
to see

They had discovered their Election of God, they perceived it. The word also is in the perfect tense in the greek, it was perceived in the past, a completed perception, once and for all, resulting into present perception, they will always know it !

They know it to be an act of the Father, He having Chosen them in Christ before the foundation of the world, this was Gospel Truth !

This also was can be understood as the Knowledge of the Apostle had of them being of God's Election by the way they received the word of God. They had received it as the Word of God and not of men.. 1 Thess 2:13

For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

This is the same way the Elect Disciples received the word of God from Christ ! Jn 17:8

For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Thats an evidence of Election when one receives the words of God, His Gospel..

beloved57
October 31st, 2011, 08:52 PM
Rom 11:5

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

First of all, the Election of Grace is not jewish people. Yes it includes some of them, as the context where this verse is found implies, but the Election of Grace simply means and applies to everyone who is saved by the Grace of God ! For Salvation is by Election of Grace, not of works, lest any man should boast. The Election of Grace merely are all those that the Father hath Chosen in His Dear Son before the foundation of the world, for the Praise of His Grace Eph 1:4-6


4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Now what does God do for these The Election of Grace, who by nature as other men, are children of wrath Eph 2:3 but are not of the Election of Grace ? Note: Though all men without exception are sinners by nature, not all men without exception are of the Election of Grace !

Now God by Grace, and for the Glory and Praise of His Grace, He imputes their sins to Christ, and imputes Christ Righteousness to them, so they are Justified by His Grace Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

" justification is an act of God's gracious will conceived in his mind from eternity, by which he wills not to impute sin to his people, but to Christ their surety; and that they should be accounted righteous through the righteousness of his Son;" John Gill

Its through the Work of the Holy Spirit and the Preaching of the Gospel of God's Electing Grace Acts 20:24, when the Lord reveals this Truth to the redeemed sinners heart; and so Paul says that through the Gospel a Righteousness of God is revealed 2 Cor 5:21; Rom 1:16-17 Now who is it revealed to ? To those who are believing Rom 1:16. This Righteousness is being revealed to them having God given Faith, so its from Faith to Faith. The fact that this Righteousness is being made known, makes it clear that the Righteousness existed for that one believing before it was revealed or made known to them, and this shall be True of the Entire Election of Grace,Jew or Gentile !

beloved57
December 20th, 2011, 05:34 AM
Election is the Father's Sovereign Choice from Everlasting, of a Special Loved People, Chosen in Christ for Salvation.

Eph 1:3-4

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Jer 31:3

3The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

Deut 7:6-7

6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:


Predestination is God's pre arrangement of all the decree's from everlasting, to bring about the experiential Salvation of His Elect in Christ !

beloved57
December 22nd, 2011, 11:43 AM
Jude 1:3

3Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

The Doctrine Election is revealed in the scriptures, and His People will take their stand and contend for this Blessed Gospel Doctrine, regardless of what men may say or think !

Even Angels were Elected of God 1 Tim 5:21

charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

The word is eklektos

picked out, chosen

a) chosen by God,

1) to obtain salvation through Christ

a) Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God

2) the Messiah is called "elect", as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable

3) choice, select, i.e. the best of its kind or class, excellence preeminent: applied to certain individual Christians

The Elect Angels are the ones Chosen by God as to associates with the Heirs of Salvation among Chosen men Heb 1:13-14

13But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?


Yet there were angels whom God decreed to destroy for their sin 2 Pet 2:4

4For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Its the same with men, some of them God determined to spare them not for sin, they are the non elect of men !

beloved57
December 23rd, 2011, 07:36 AM
The bible teaches Election even of the One who died for His Seed Isa 53:10

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

The Lord Jesus Christ . Scripture records the Father saying Isa 42:1

1Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Peter writes as well 1 Pet 2:4,6

To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

Christ was Chosen of God to be the Head of the Church, His Body ! So now, if the Head is Chosen, so must be His Members, His Body ! Unless the Father chose a bodiless Head ! And because of this, He had to be the Saviour of the Body Eph 5:23


For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body.

He is the Chosen foundation stone, and Those He is Saviour, His Body, are the chosen stones 1 Pet 2:5

Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

A Chosen Priesthood at that 1 Pet 2:9

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

beloved57
December 24th, 2011, 06:53 PM
Election is taught by the Type the Nation of Israel Isa 65:9

9And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

Deut 7:6-8

6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

8But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

This language is fitting to Spiritual Israel comprised of both jews and gentiles 1 Pet 2:9

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

faramir77
December 24th, 2011, 07:22 PM
Message Board Evangelanine! -what's up, man?

Preaching to the , who. what? -and better yet, why?

Yo. the lord teacheth (ps: the th equils [=] an 's') my hands to war.
To WAR man! what's the deal with that?

Yea, hey. Hi.
long-time-listener, first-time caller,
uh, um, yea, right, like, it's um like yea, ya know?

Seriously though, two peanuts are walking down the street, and one is a salted.
-get it!
a salted!
~pffttt, yea, high-brow humor... TOTALLY LOST on the aerostrocratic power elete.

and now,
submitted for your acadeny consiteration:
Keyboad Kitty! (http://youtu.be/J---aiyznGQ)-now, nolonger avalable in HD!

OMEGA
December 24th, 2011, 07:40 PM
Behooved58 said,

Election took place in Eternity,
God hath from the beginning Chosen you to Salvation
also see Eph 1:4
------------------------------

Wrong again.
------------------
God did not choose them individually Before the Earth was created.

God decided to choose a group of people down through History

to Receive His Holy Spirit and Represent Him on the Earth.

God chose certain people that He thought would be Receptive to

His Bible and Humble and Obedient before Him .

beloved57
December 25th, 2011, 07:41 PM
Jesus in His very first sermon recorded in Holy Writ Preached God's discriminating Election of some and the passing by of others who had the same needs of blessing !

Lk 4:25-27,28

25But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;

26But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow.

27And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.

And the wicked natural mind was enraged at the teaching vs 28

28And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,

Jesus preached a doctrine that God only chooses some out mankind to bestow His Saving Mercy upon, though all need saving !

beloved57
February 2nd, 2012, 01:12 AM
Many of the adversaries of the biblical and Gospel Doctrine of election of individuals to mSalvation like to explain it away by just stating that Election exclusively applies to the Lord Jesus Christ; however what these deceivers do not know is that He and they [His Body] were Chosen by the Father in the same Election, hence we have Heb 2:11

11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one:[/B] for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

And Paul writes Eph 1:4

4According [B]as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

So True Gospel Believers were in Christ [His Spiritual Seed] from before the foundation of the world. God the Father chose Him as the Head and all that shall believe as His Body, His Members. Psalm 139 a Messianic Psalm of Christ alludes to this Ps 139:14-17

14I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

15My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

16Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

17How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!

See Spurgeons Comments on Ps 139:16

http://www.studylight.org/com/tod/view.cgi?book=ps&chapter=139&verse=016

beloved57
February 2nd, 2012, 07:27 AM
The Lord Jesus Christ was and is the Fathers Elect Isa 42:1; 1Pet 2:4 in which He was also made the Representative Head to all persons who shall believe in Him. These had been Blessed with all Spiritual Blessings In Him, because He was their Head; and consequently they are save and called with a Holy calling 2 Tim 1:9, and it was because of this Eternal Union, of Head and Body [members] which lays the foundation [2 Tim 2:19] by which His obedience unto death and His Righteousness is imputed to their account, and their acceptance with God, and the forgiveness of all their sins !

beloved57
February 2nd, 2012, 08:04 AM
The Lord Jesus Christ was and is the Fathers Elect Isa 42:1; 1Pet 2:4 in which He was also made the Representative Head to all persons who shall believe in Him. These had been Blessed with all Spiritual Blessings In Him, because He was their Head; and consequently they are save and called with a Holy calling 2 Tim 1:9, and it was because of this Eternal Union, of Head and Body [members] which lays the foundation [2 Tim 2:19] by which His obedience unto death and His Righteousness is imputed to their account, and their acceptance with God, and the forgiveness of all their sins !

beloved57
May 11th, 2012, 09:38 AM
One of the most erroneous conceptions in false religion today is that God's Elect are ethnic jews only, but that is a lie from the pits of hell, in fact many of the ethnic jews during Paul's Time were not God's Elect, for that is plain from Rom 11:7

What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Israel here is National Israel, and Paul says that in her was a election of jews, and the rest were blinded, which was the nation in general, so how could the rest that was blinded be God's Elect , when they are here being distinguished from God's Elect ??

However, we know that not only that election in Israel was God's Chosen the Elect, but we know also that God's Chosen were also among the gentile Nations ! How do we know that ?

By this 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

If Paul being a special selected Apostle to the Gentiles as stated 2 Tim 1:11-12

11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

That they[Gentile Elect] also may obtain the Salvation which is in Christ Jesus with Eternal Glory

Notice the word obtain is used here in 2 Tim as referring to the Elect obtaining Salvation among the Gentiles, which is used by Paul in Rom 11:7 for the Election obtaining Salvation in National Israel !

So Paul's personal Testimony as the Apostle to the Gentiles, was that He endured all things for the Elect's Sake, so it must be concluded that even Gentiles are amongst God's Elect, not just some ethnic jews 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.


In the greek the Elect here is touv eklektouv, the word elect is preceded by the definite article, meaning that these gentiles were of God's only special elect People as Per Lk 18:7

And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

Also the same as in Matt 24:22

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The elect's sake here is the same the elect's sake in 2 Tim 2:10 which refers to Gentiles !

This poses a serious problem for those of you who have been deluded to thinking that only ethnic jews were God's Elect People !

beloved57
May 11th, 2012, 11:41 AM
1 Pet 1:1-2

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

The Elect here are not elected because of the obedience or faith, but unto obedience or faith Rom 16:26

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

The Obedience is produced by the work of the Spirit, for His sanctification work is the cause of their obedience, so Peter could say this in Acts 5:32

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

In other words, those obeying God, is a sure evidence of God having gave them the Holy Ghost, and His Sanctifying Graces unto obedience !

Obedience to the Gospel of God is evidence of having been born of the Spirit ! And this belongs the Elect only !

beloved57
June 6th, 2012, 12:34 PM
As Great as the Apostle Paul was, and used mightily of the Lord, nevertheless he was Just one of God's Elect as anyone else Christ died for. That being the case, what applied to him here is applied to each Elect Vessel of Mercy !

Acts 22:14

14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.

Chosen to hear His Voice. Remember when Jesus made this statement ? Jn 10:16

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Though Paul was of that jewish fold, nevertheless He partook of the same promise that Jesus here promises of Gentile Sheep that also had been Chosen to hear His voice !

Princely
June 6th, 2012, 12:57 PM
Keep seeking.

The Lord who sent me says this;

"My chosen ones shall inherit the land ,my servants shall dwell there."

"Zion shall be redeemed by judgement and all her repentant one by justice."

"The Lord fills Zion with justice and right and the riches that save her are wisdom and knowledge, her treasure is the fear of the Lord."

That's the word of the Lord who sent me. I am the good shepherd, I know my sheep and my sheep know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; To these sheep I will give my life.

You are not my sheep. I do not know you.

No one can come to me unless the Lord who sent me draws him.

beloved57
June 7th, 2012, 12:27 AM
Acts 22:14

14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.

We see that the Elect, as Paul is an Illustration of, is Chosen to Hear God's or Christ's Voice, and this Spiritually. This coincides with Christ saying that His Sheep shall hear His voice via the Gospel.

Secondly, they are Chosen to Know God's Will, Spiritually and Experientially. Col 1:9

For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

For this cause they receive a Spirit of revelation

Eph 1:17

That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:



Eph 1:9

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

beloved57
June 7th, 2012, 09:36 PM
Acts 22:14

14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.

The word for see here is the greek word eidō and is the same word used for see in Jn 3:3


3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

And the word does mean understand; But Paul saw Him both with the eye of understanding through the New Birth, and He of course saw Him Physically with His own eyes on the road to damascus, which qualified Him to be an Apostle.

However all the Elect of God, whom Christ did die for, have been Chosen to see Jesus with the eye of understanding through New Birth ; for to see Jesus is to see the Kingdom of God, and this seeing is a precursory to believing in Him Jn 6:40

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jesus through His Ministers does open their eyes, the eyes of their understanding Acts 26:28

18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Eph 1:18

The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Princely
June 7th, 2012, 10:54 PM
It is written;

The Lord is the strength of his people; the saving refuge of his anointed.

For the word of the Lord is upright, and all his works are truthful. He loves justice and right;

The Lord is good; blessed are those who take refuge in him. Revere the Lord, you his holy ones, for nothing is lacking to those who revere Him. The great grow poor and hungry but those who seek the Lord want for no good thing.

The Lord has eyes for the just, and ears for there cry. When the just cry out, the Lord hears them, and rescues them from all distress.

Trust in the Lord, and do good; so you will live in the land, and enjoy security. Take delight in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart. Commit your way to the Lord; trust in him, and he will act. He will make justice dawn for you like the light; bright as the noon day will be your vindication.

The meek shall inherit the land, and delight themselves in abundant peace.

Depart from evil, and do good; so you shall abide forever. For the Lord loves justice; he will not forsake his faithful ones. The righteous shall be kept safe forever, but the children of the wicked shall be cut off. The righteous shall inherit the land, and live in it forever. The just man’s mouth speaks wisdom, and their tongues speak what is right. The law of their God is in their hearts; their steps do not stumble.

That's the Lord who lives in me and I in Him.

I am the resurrection and the Life, anyone who believes in me even though he died will come to life and anyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. The Lord and I are One.

ttruscott
June 8th, 2012, 03:39 PM
Well, I got to post #28 and decided to say that I accept all this about election EXCEPT the meaning of the foundation of the world and foreknowledge as being in a time before our creation.

1. First we were created as ingenuous immocent spirits in the spirit world.

3. Then the earth was created along with the physical universe.

In between these two creations is

2. the time called before the foundation of the world and from the beginning, the time of HIS foreknowledge and election of HIS people.

Peace,
Ted

beloved57
July 2nd, 2012, 01:22 AM
Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 2 Tim 1:9


9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Those who were chosen in Christ before the foundation [Eph 1:4] are the ones also given to Him by the Father to give unto them eternal life Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

He shouldn't give it [eternal life] to all without exception, but to only as many as given to Him Eph 1:4 !

So these would be given to Him as a reward for His suffering, which was the Joy set before Him Heb 12:2, they were given also to come to Him in Faith as for His Reward Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Those who do come to Christ in Faith had been given of the Father, and so it was given to them [who come] to believe on His Name, not for their sakes, but for Christ's behalf Phil 1:29

29 For unto you[That Believe] it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Notice, it is given in behalf of Christ ! Thats because believers are given to Christ as The Father's Reward to Him for His Cross Work. Ps 2:8

8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

All Saints are Christ's Inheritance Eph 1:18, neither does it matter if they are the Son's Inheritance or the Fathers because Jesus did say Jn 17:10

And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

Now those given to Christ by the Father before time, is the foundational cause for which they come to Him in time, so that it comes to past as Per 2 Tim 2:19

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his[His Inheritance]. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

BTW this excludes these from ever being the Lords, those He knows Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Now this departing from iniquity as per 2 Tim 2:19 for those who are Christ's and He knows that are His, this departing from iniquity is effected by His Redeeming Death for them as Per Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

For it is of the Righteousness of God that the Son of His Love has in possession those he purchased with His own Blood ! And so Faith is alloted to them all 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Thats why it is said of Paul it is given to believe on Christ on Christ's Behalf Phil 1:29 !

beloved57
July 2nd, 2012, 08:54 AM
Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Those given to Christ, that do come to Him or do believe in Him, as it is evidenced by His Chosen disciples that were presently before Him when He was saying these words of Jn 17, now if any of those given Him by His Father, be lost, then He has failed His Fathers will for Him, for it is written Jn 6:37-38

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will/desire/pleasure of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.


Now vs 39 is in regards to all the Father hath chosen in Him Eph 1:4

And vs 40

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

again emphasizes those Chosen, with the added comment of what is the result or effect of God's choice of them, they see [spiritually] the Son and Believe in Him. They must see Him because, as the father gave them to Him, He also Gave Him to them as a Covenant to them, which results in this Isa 42:6-7

I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

Yes, once their blind eyes are opened from their natural state of blindness, they see the Son, and Believe in Him as their Salvation, but if just one for whom was given to Him by the Father, should perish and be lost, Christ did fail His Father's will, desire, and pleasure; and those false teachers that teach that Christ died for any who shall be lost, they do preach Christ as a failure of His Father's will, which is Blasphemy at it's Highest. Simply Put, if we believe any for whom Christ died shall perish in their sins, we do blaspheme !

beloved57
July 3rd, 2012, 07:34 AM
1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Of Him the Father are any in Christ Jesus [ by which in Him is No Condemnation Rom 8:1], it is because of the Father's choice of some of us, that we are in Christ, and this choice was before the foundation of the World Eph 1:3-4

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This Choice of the Father is also called Sanctification by the Father according to Jude 1:1

Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Whereby, by His Eternal Purpose of Election, He set us apart for His Son Jesus Christ. This Truth is also seen in Christ's Parable here Matt 22:1-5

And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,

2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

But vs 14 lets us know that all were not chosen Matt 22:14

14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

And those few are those here Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

godzilla
July 3rd, 2012, 09:50 AM
And you just so happen to be one of His elect?

beloved57
July 3rd, 2012, 10:18 AM
And you just so happen to be one of His elect?

Deal with the scripture, this is not about me !

beloved57
July 25th, 2012, 01:29 AM
Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Whose the we here Paul is referring to ? Its those Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

That the Redemption God gives is only for the Elect People is seen from the OT Scriptures which gives a Covenant Command Ps 130:7-8

7 Let Israel hope in the Lord: for with the Lord there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.

8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

Israel is another name for God's Elect. Notice vs7, Its only the Elect that are called to Hope in God, and to find Mercy in Redemption, and only the Elect [Israel] that is promised to be redeemed from all His iniquties.

Its Israel or the Elect here also Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Remember who Paul is writing to here in Titus ! Titus 1:1-2

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Notice that the promise in Ps 130:8 for Israel is this:

8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

And notice what Christ came to do in His Death for His Elect in Titus 2:14

that he might redeem us from all iniquity !

You see its the same thing, to redeem from all iniquity a certain People, the Elect of God or the Israel of God. This also means that Israel and the Church are the same !

beloved57
August 3rd, 2012, 07:26 AM
1 Jn 2:1

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

It is no secret that God's Elect are great sinners, simply because they as all men are, born sinners, and are by nature enemies to God and what is all Holy and Righteous, But, Christ who died and rose in their behalf will always defend them before God's Law and Justice from all deserving accusations !

This is vividly set forth with the case of Joshua the High Priest of the Lord Zech 3:1-4

And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.

4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

Joshua the High Priest was wearing filthy garments, analogous of all God's People by nature, and no doubt satan the accuser of the brethren had brought accusation against him Rev 12:9-10

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Now there is no doubt Joshua as well as all the Elect of God can be accused of something amiss in their lives here in this flesh Rom 7:18-19

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

However notice the response from the Lord, for the Lord did not deny the filthiness of His Servant, but said:

The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even [B]the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee

Yes, God pointed out that Joshua was part of that special Chosen People, the Jerusalem of God, even those Chosen in Christ Eph 1:4, in essence the Lord was echoing Paul's words here Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

And then the Lord gives us to see, that He has clothed His Chosen People with His Own special woven Garments for them to wear

The Lord said


4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

Notice, God has taken away his iniquity, which speaks of the completed Work of Christ for the sins of His People, and then He clothes us with His Garments of Salvation, which is Christ's Righteousness Imputed to us ! Isa 61:10

I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

You see that ? Thats Free Grace , that is The Election of grace. The Lord Jesus Christ defends as a Defensive Attorney, an Advocate in the Court of law, all the Chosen of God, the Election of Grace, no matter how sinful it they can be seen to be, simply because they are the Chosen, as such, converted or not, believers or not, they are Reconciled to God [In His Law and Justice] and Clothed in the Imputed Righteousness of Christ !

beloved57
August 12th, 2012, 03:05 PM
Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

That Election gives one a special interest in Christ before they believe in Him, because even before they do so, Christ claims them as His Own " Other Sheep I have"

This word have is the greek word echo and means:

to have, i.e. to hold

to have i.e. own, possess

to be closely joined to a person or a thing

And its rendered in the present tense, Other Sheep I am having or owning !

And this True of them before hearing His Voice which is a prerequisite before believing, even before they listen to Him or Hearken; But the key here is that before such, He still is having them by Election ! Eph 1:4 In fact, If Christ had no interest in His Sheep by Election, for His Father gave them Him Jn 10:29a " My Father, which gave them me" there would have been no basis for Him to die for them and redeem them !

beloved57
August 15th, 2012, 04:00 PM
Limited Atonement and Election !


The fact that God called and separated Israel from the rest of the Nations of Mankind, and even in that Nation called in Abraham Gen 12:1-3, there was only a remnant of the True Chosen to Salvation Matt 22:14

For many are called, but few are chosen.

Rom 9:27

Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

BTW, this scripture confirms that God never purposed to save all Israel the ethnic Nation !

So God's Salvation is restricted to God's Purpose of Election, His Israel Spiritual Isa 45:17

But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Rom 9:11

For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

For God has only promised to save Israel, that is why the Apostle to the Gentiles said Acts 13:23

Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Isa 45:15

Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

And even as God's saving Purpose went beyond the physical boundaries of the called nation israel, and into the other Nations of the World, it was still only to gather in Israel or the Elect among the Nations, so we see language like this Rom 11:26

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

And once all Israel is gathered and saved, that is God saving His World, the Total Collection of the Israel of God !

And we never understand the True God aright until we are made to bow and embrace the Gospel Truth of God's Gracious Sovereign unconditional Election, and that it is not purposed that God gives Saving Grace equally to all men without exception, for with some He did Purpose Rom 9:11, and the rest He did not Rom 11:7, according to His Own Will, and if this True fact is not settled in the heart, and you even find yourself in opposition to it, you serve an idol of your own imagination and not the God of Israel, who is the God of the Whole Earth ! Isa 54:5

For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

beloved57
August 15th, 2012, 10:54 PM
Unconditonal discrminatory Election does not make God a respector of persons, for if that was the case, it could not be rightfully called The Election of Grace Rom 11:5

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

And to top that off, His Election of Grace has not been restricted to just one particular ethnicity, but it accounts for The redeemed that is out of every nation, tongue, kindred and people Rev 5:9

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

And these all constitute the Israel of God

Notice vs 10

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Now who was this said to before ? Ex 19:6

And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Now Rev 5:10 has been renedered thusly:

ESV and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.”

beloved57
August 17th, 2012, 04:10 PM
Ps 65:4

4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

The word choosest is the hebrew word bachar:

to choose, elect, decide for

a) (Qal) to choose

b) (Niphal) to be chosen

c) (Pual) to be chosen, selected

And this being chosen is what causetst one's approach in faith, hence the faith of God's Elect. The word causets is the word qarab:

to come near, approach, enter into, draw near

a) (Qal) to approach, draw near

b) (Niphal) to be brought near

c) (Piel) to cause to approach, bring near, cause to draw near

d) (Hiphil) to bring near, bring, present

The person is being passively brought near, being caused to approach, its the working of God in a person both to will and do of His good pleasure, its the effect of the Cross of Christ also Eph 2:13.

This is but God calling whom He will into blessed fellowship with Himself and the Lord Jesus Christ 1 Cor 1:9

9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

And this is also called the Election of God of which He is the Sovereign cause 1 Thess 1:4

4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

beloved57
August 17th, 2012, 04:53 PM
Election is in Christ or some have been chosen in Christ, When ? Before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

And let it be known, that this Election puts one in Christ that early, and that of God are they in Christ Jesus 1 Cor 1:30a

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Not of our faith, our choosing or our repentance, but of God's Sovereign choice by Grace. This Election gave one a Representative Being in Christ, like Levi had in the Loins of Abraham Heb 7:9-10

9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

It also gives a Representative Union with Him, and it is at conversion when believing the Truth, that Union is made manifest openly, and is evidence of having been in Christ before. This is the same as Eve's open marriage to Adam, did but give Evidence that She previously had a Union with him before, and of course Paul likens that to the Church and Christ Eph 5:28-32

28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

That Eve had this Union with Adam at Adam's Creation is clear from Gen 5:1-2

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

And so Later God brought the woman to the Man Gen 2:22

22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

God caused her to come to the man, Just like He causes The Church, Christ's Bride to come to Him Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Which in the final analysis will be all those Chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4 !

beloved57
August 28th, 2012, 01:38 AM
Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Chosen that we should be Holy and without blame before Him in Love ! Some ignorantly say that scripture does not teach an election to believe in Christ, but that is another lie from the father of lies and his minions, for our present scripture teaches that very thing; for in being Chosen to be Holy, accompanied with that is Sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13, for its by the sanctifying Work of the Spirit [New Birth] see Eph 4:24 that we become experientially Holy, which answers the Purpose of Eph 1:4

beloved57
August 28th, 2012, 07:03 AM
The Elect or Chosen are predestinated to Faith in Christ as it is taught in Eph 1:5

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

For we are openly, manifestly the sons of God by Faith in Christ Gal 3:26

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. also Gal 3:7

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

However before faith or our adoption is revealed, we are as others by nature foreigners and strangers, enemies, even children of wrath as others, but because our being the Children of God by election is before faith not known or yet discovered, however our Adoption in time by Jesus Christ makes it known , which Adoption is the End of Predestination ! Also more of that making known of Adoption will occur at the Second Coming ! That also was the End of Predestination !

beloved57
December 23rd, 2012, 01:13 AM
Deut 7:6-8

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

It baffles me on how today organized religion rejects the Truth of God that God has a Chosen People on this Earth, a People that He Loved and Loves and values over and above all other people, for what can be plainer from the words of our text. This special people was not only Chosen but Loved by God above all other people, they were also Holy Holy to the Lord.

With this in mind, why is it that people reject the Truth that God has a special people whom He shows special preference above and over all others ?

Now many will say that the text refers to ethnic jews, and at that time it did, but not to all of them without exception, but only those that belonged to a remnant according to the Election of Grace, having been Chosen first Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4, and those Loved in Christ Jesus Rom 8:39 ! Also there are no people that is Holy to God outside of Christ Jesus, now with that in mind, it should be easier to understand who the Chosen People are God is referring to in Deut 7:6-8, why its the Church of Eph 1:4-3:21 !

Grosnick Marowbe
December 23rd, 2012, 01:16 AM
Do you ever stop and think; "Does ANYBODY really
read all the stuff I post??" I doubt they do!! I for one
wouldn't have the patience to "endure" one of your
"lengthy diatribes," that seem to go absolutely, "nowhere!!"

beloved57
December 23rd, 2012, 03:35 PM
gm


Does ANYBODY really
read all the stuff I post??"

I know God does !

beloved57
December 23rd, 2012, 04:25 PM
Now however at the time of Deut 7, the church was comprised of Chosen ethnic jews called Israel, but as time would go on it would be revealed that this Chosen People Israel whom God Loved was not only made up of ethnic jews, but of all people of different Nations, and that had been a Mystery, though hinted at in prophecies like Isa 49:6

6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Lk 2:32

A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

Also the Mystery was that Elect Israel, Whom God Loved was not an ethnicity according to the flesh, but a spiritual seed, hence the seed of Israel Isa 45:25 and Gal 6:16

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.


16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Isa 45:25 This Glory of Israel is the same as the Glory of the Church Eph 3:21

21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

beloved57
December 23rd, 2012, 06:49 PM
Now that the Chosen People of Eph 1:4, the Church, are the same as those in Deut 7, notice Deut 7:6

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

Yes, they are both Holy unto God, the fact is, there are not Two different sets of Chosen Holy People, however this is no issue at all when we understand that both objects of God's Choice here are the same people under different economies or administrations ! This is why those under the New Covenant are called with an Holy Calling 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

He dwells among them[The Church] as His Holy People 2 Cor 6:14-18

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Now Paul here is writing the Church the Body of Christ and He is applying this OT Scripture to it:

Leviticus 26:11-12 ; Ezk 37:26-27

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

The Church, the Body of Christ is an Holy Temple unto the Lord Eph 2:21

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

1 Cor 3:16

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

See the OT Tabernacle and Temple of the People of Israel were merely Types of the Church, the Israel of God.

Now it we fail to see the fulfillment of Deut 7:6 here in the Church, we are blind to the Truth !

beloved57
January 28th, 2013, 07:40 AM
This question is answered in the affirmative,lets look at Isa 42:1

Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

1 Pet 2:4,6

4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

Now if He is God's Elect or Chosen as scripture doeth testify Lk 23:35, then so are the ones Chosen in Him that constitute His Body and it's Members; for God did not choose the Head Christ with no Body members,but in God's Choice of the Head, all the Members of that Head's Body were with Him Chosen Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Thats why His Members are called an Chosen Generation 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation or offspring, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Paul tells us that in the beginning, He was the Head of the Body, the Church Col 1:17-18

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.


What does " who is the beginning" mean ? Vs 17 tells us , in that He as the Head " is before all things"

Remember it is written of Jesus this Rev 1:8

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 3:14

14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

The Beginning of the Creation of God is that He is the Head of the Church, His Body, which is the Creation of God, which was Created for God's Glory Isa 43:7

Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

And also in that capacity, as the Head of the Church, all things were Created by Him and for Him Col 1:16-17

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he[The Head of the Body] is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Now this Union of Christ and His Body existed and predated their [His Body] existence and union with their earthly head Adam after Creation. The only way to deny the Election of some in Christ, is to deny Christ's Election as well, for His Election is irrelevant if its not as the Head of His Body the Church !

beloved57
February 11th, 2013, 09:24 AM
Election is in Christ . The fact that Christ Himself is God's Elect, makes it imperative that those who are Joint Heirs with Him [Rom 8:17] are also of God's Election.

Just as Believing spouses are Heirs together 1 Pet 3:7

7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.


And we know the Mystery of Christ Eph 5:31-32

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

For Christ is God's Elect as He chose Him to be the Head of the Body [His Wife] the Church which hath many members Col 1:18

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

1 Cor 12:12

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

And so the Members of His Body consequently are Joint heirs with Him Rom 8:17, As Christ is the Son of God, they in Him are the Children of God, as the Son of God, He is Chosen Lk 23:35,those Chosen in Him are God's Chosen Eph 1:4 and they are Children of God, His Brethren Heb 2:13

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

We cannot consistently believe that Christ is God's Elect without embracing His Members of His Body not being God's Elect as Well !

beloved57
March 30th, 2013, 04:16 PM
Those who were Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

They actually had a Election Being in Him, before they had one in their Earthy head of Adam at Creation. This is because Christ's Headship was before Adam's, and before Creation no other Headship existed save that of Christ, and so in all things He must have the preeminence; being that He is before all things, and by whom all things consist, and He is the Head of the Body, the Church Col 1:17-18

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

This is key, Paul is saying here that in the beginning, Christ is the Head of the body the Church , before all things else !

This is proof, if we can receive it, that Christ was the Head of the Church before all things, and He was the Head of those Chosen in Him as Early !

This Truth establishes eternal election in Christ, or He could not have been the Head of the Church, His Body in the beginning !

To deny Eternal Election therefore in Christ, is to deny His Eternal Headship in the beginning, and then our Christology becomes a false Christ !

beloved57
March 30th, 2013, 05:25 PM
Now this Election in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4, where He existed as the Elect Head of the Church, His Body, before all things Col 1:17-18

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

It is then in Him, in the beginning before anything was made by Him, in Him was Life Jn 1:1-4

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

And which life was Eternal Life 1 Jn 1:2;5:11

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us )

1 Jn 5:11


11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Now being Chosen in the Son Eph 1:4, they were Chosen in to Eternal Life, hence it was given to the them then in the Son, its that Grace given them in Christ before the World Began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Peter calls it the Grace of Life 1 Pet 3:7

Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
The syric version renders the phrase " Grace of Life" as " The Gift of Eternal Life !

The phrase also could read as Heirs of Eternal Life Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

beloved57
March 30th, 2013, 08:07 PM
Now all the Elect of God, who died to God in Adam, and became alienated from the life of God as Per Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

This blindness is the same as here 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

And they are dead in trespasses and sins, but yet because Christ has shed His Blood for them, washed them from their sins, having satisfied for them all of God's Law and Justice, they are quickened to life by Christ with that Eternal Life they had in Christ their Head before the world began; it is then they are born again of that incorruptible seed 1 Pet 1:23, and then they are manifested as His Chosen Seed as well as the Sons of God !

beloved57
April 8th, 2013, 06:37 PM
2 Tim 2:8-10

8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

The word Elect here is the greek word eklektos and means:

picked out, chosen

a) chosen by God,

1) to obtain salvation through Christ

Its from the root word eklegomai which means:

to pick out, choose, to pick or choose out for one's self

Its those people God has chosen for Himself !

Now Paul is saying in our passage that he basically endures all things, all the adverse circumstances he encounters in Preaching the Gospel of Vs 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

For the Elect's Sake, God's Election of Grace, those He has reserved unto Himself Rom 11:4-5

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

BTW There was an Election of Grace in the time of Elijah as it was then in Paul's time under the New Covenant, that proves the connection of the OT Believer and the NT Believer !

This brings us to understand the supreme importance of the Truth of Eternal Election in Christ, in Preaching the Gospel. Both the Election of Grace in Elijah day as well as that in Paul's day had to be Chosen in Christ in order to be of the Election of Grace.

This Election is foundational because without it, there would be no Only Begotten Son from Everlasting, for then there would have been no Elect in Him before the Foundation Eph 1:4, then no Chosen to Salvation, for which Purpose, no need to send His Son to save His People from their sins Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

His People here are the Chosen, the Elect, The Israel of God; and so the Gospel of God finds its origin in God's Purpose of Election !

For the Gospel reveals to the Elect ones the Covenental Blessings of God to His Chosen, which Blessings are theirs according to His Choosing them in Christ before the foundation of the World Eph 1:3-4

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Which things God reveals to them by His Spirit 1 Cor 2:6-12 ! For as one has believed the True Gospel of God, they perceive that their Salvation comes to them from God's Eternal Election, and this cannot be unless Election from Eternity is a foundational theme in Gospel Preaching. For what meaneth this if not Election 2 Tim 2:19,10

Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Remember what Paul had just stated a few lines earlier in Vs 10 !

All the Spiritual Blessings one is given in time, such as New Birth, Faith, and Repentance, are due because of Election or having been Chosen in Him, their Covenant Head before the foundation.

beloved57
April 11th, 2013, 12:18 AM
What is meant by being chosen in Christ before the foundation ? Its not just something to say because it sounds good, but its an actual truth revealed in scripture Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Remember what Paul writes of Christ as being the Head of the Body, the Church, who is the beginning ? Col 1:17-18

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.


So being chosen in Him before the foundation means that we [the chosen] were chosen in Christ , then as the members of His Body before all things.

beloved57
April 13th, 2013, 04:30 AM
Lk 19:14

But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

The natural man does not submit too the pure doctrine of Election because it does not submit to God's Sovereignty. For the natural man cries unfair, unjust is the God who shows the discriminating grace of Election to Salvation. That God purposed it for some and not others is a Sovereign prerogative. It says loud and clear that God has a right and does what He wills with His own creatures, which is Paul's point here Rom 9:11-15

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

And as vs 14 shows us the natural mans response to Election, we know this by Paul's answer:What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God?

By no means Paul says, for God has the right to have mercy and elective love on whomsoever He will [Sovereignty], meaning He did not show elective love and mercy to esau, but He did to Jacob, and this without any consideration of good or evil done by them, and that by doing so God has not wronged esau ! The natural man does not except this premise as being fair !

beloved57
April 13th, 2013, 03:34 PM
The same Election Principle of God's Sovereignty over His creatures is seen again in my Lords story here Matt 20:3-15

3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,

4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.

5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.

6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?

7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.

8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.

9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.

10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.

11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,

12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.

13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?

14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.

15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

And because God chose to give the same payment for labor done by those who worked much longer than the one worked much less. Its like if Two people get a job at a factory to work, and one started on Monday and Worked hard up to Friday Payday and that one is paid 150 dollars for the days worked, but another who was hired Friday Morning and worked only a eight hour shift, and at on the same day he is also paid 150 dollars for his eight hour shift of which you found out about, naturally when that is found out its reasoned to be unfair, for why should he be compensated the same as you and you worked much longer and harder than he, and the factory owner knew it. But Jesus answers in Vs 15

15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

And this Illustrates God's Sovereignty that none of by nature will submit to !

beloved57
April 13th, 2013, 08:19 PM
At the beginning immediately after the entrance of sin into the World by Adam's transgression, God did disclose His Election of a People by stating the fact that in mankind two manner of people shall be brought forth; That being the seed of the woman [Eve] which meant Christ and His People, His Body the Church, and the serpents seed, which are the children of the devil or of the wicked one Gen 3:15

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Matt 13:38

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

And God Sovereignly put an enmity between these Two Seeds. Now the Seed of the Woman is the Elect of God, even as Christ is the Elect of God Isa 42:1; and the seed of the serpent is the non elect ! Abel gave evidence of being of the Election of Grace, while cain gave evidence of being of the wicked one 1 Jn 3:12

12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

beloved57
April 22nd, 2013, 04:21 AM
Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

This scripture sets forth unto us the Divine Regulation of Election to Salvation, for the Election Purpose here is the same as it is set forth here Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

And here Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Yes, this passage is about Election, faith here is the Faith of God's Elect Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

And the point is this, That Salvation by Grace or Election [the same] in it God has no regard to any work, performance of a condition or requirement, our will or desire, which is summed up in Rom 9:11,16

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

The word done in Vs 11 "neither having done any good or evil"

This is the greek word prassō:


to exercise, practise, to be busy with, carry on

a) to undertake, to do

2) to accomplish, perform

a) to commit, perpetrate

3) to manage public affairs, transact public business

a) to exact tribute, revenue, debts

4) to act

It also means require as in Lk 19:23

23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?

So Salvation by Grace or Election does not come from one doing something required by God, like believing or repenting or etc !

Salvation is not based upon the so called freewill of man, for if that was ever the case it reverts into Salvation by works Rom 11:6,5

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Election of Grace or Salvation by Grace through Faith is only possible if we are part of a Chosen remnant, out of all mankind, Vs 5

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

This is another foundational principle, Election of Grace, Salvation by Grace only is about a remnant, its never about saving all without exception, but only all the remnant without exception !

We take away this Element of remnant, we undermine Salvation by Grace !

That part denotes a remaining, and a small part as in Isa 1:9

9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

Thats Salvation by Grace and Election by Grace, the Lord reserving some for Himself ! See Rom 11:4

This is the only Salvation the bible teaches and its the only one that Christ represents in His Death, so He says Jn 14:6

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

And His Way is by being Chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4 !

Salvation no other way Acts 4:12

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

No other way of Salvation than by being of the Election of Grace in Christ Jesus !

Its not the popular but very narrow way Matt 7:14

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

That few is a remnant that God reserved for Himself !

beloved57
April 22nd, 2013, 07:20 PM
Rom 9:8

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The Elect are the Seed here also !

These are Truths that the scripture teaches, and even before they are believers or born again, and while they are yet enemies, in a state of enmity, in a state of nature Rom 5:10; Eph 2:3 they are and God sees them as His Children, Like the Father of the prodigal seen His son while he was estranged Lk 15:11ff.

And God Loved them as such in that condition 1 Jn 3:1; Jn 3:16. Now at the time of New Birth and Faith, it is then that they have the right to become openly and by profession, the Children of God Jn 1:12-13

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power or privilege to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

But understand again, that before they are communicated Life or New Birth, they are still Children; Lets look at Isa 54:13

13 And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

Which Jesus applied here Jn 6:45

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Which indicates that they were the Lord's Children or sons before being taught of Him.

Again Jn 11:52

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

They are God's Children before being gathered by the Call of the Gospel; Heb 2:14

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Again here, they are children before partaking of flesh and blood, before creation and before physical birth !

beloved57
April 26th, 2013, 04:21 AM
Called according to His Purpose !

Rom 8:28

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Now who are the called according to His Purpose ? Why its His Own Elect, and the purpose meant here is His Purpose of Election which Paul writes about here Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

Notice Purpose of Election and Call; and this Call of the Purpose of Election is not limited to just jews as some falsely teach, but also includes Gentiles which are Elect Rom 9:24

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

beloved57
April 28th, 2013, 03:31 AM
Ps 106:4-5

4 Remember me, O Lord, with the favour that thou bearest unto thy people: O visit me with thy salvation;

5 That I may see the good of thy chosen, that I may rejoice in the gladness of thy nation, that I may glory with thine inheritance.

The writer here recognizes an Election, A Chosen People for Salvation. No he is not referring to the physical nation of israel itself, but an Israel in Israel, a Chosen People in her, the Election as here Rom 11:7

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Thats who the writer has in mind. Notice he calls them thy chosen as in Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Thats the only chosen God has, those Chosen in Him [Christ]

But notice also he refers to them as thy Inheritance, which again corresponds to Eph 1:18
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

The Saints are God's True Chosen People, whether jew or gentile ! Deut 33:3

Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words.

They shall receive God's Words. Remember Jesus said of those given to Him by the Father Jn 17:8

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Ps 85:8

I will hear what God the Lord will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly.

Ps 148:14

He also exalteth the horn of his people, the praise of all his saints; even of the children of Israel, a people near unto him. Praise ye the Lord.

Dan 7:27

And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Back to our text, the Psalmist calls them His Nation 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

That would be a Nation that brings forth fruit Matt 21:43

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

beloved57
May 6th, 2013, 04:22 PM
Isa 44:7

7 And who, as I, shall call and shall declare it, and set it in order for Me, since I appointed the ancient people? And the things that are coming and shall come, let them show unto them.

God here states that He appointed the ancient people or it can be rendered the people of eternity, this because the elect in the Purpose of God are a People from Eternity as they were Chosen in Christ Jesus before the world began, of which also they had their Names inscribed in the Lambs Book of Life befre the foundation, which appointed or made certain their beings in time !

Their beings were foundationed from everlasting !


God had from old detrmined them everlasting Life in everlasting habitations, through the Lord Jesus Christ !

beloved57
May 26th, 2013, 05:16 PM
Is Election Salvation ? The answer is both Yes and No. Its yes in that the elect, those chosen to Salvation in Christ are Eternally Saved by the Purpose of God 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

But we must answer No in the sense that even the Elect are not born experimentally saved from the power of sin. Like all men they are born experimentally lost, dead in trespasses and sins, and are by nature children of wrath even as others Eph 2:3. This being True, Election in Christ does make certain experimental Salvation [conversion] in time, they shall have bestowed upon them [according to their Election in Christ] all Spiritual Blessings needed to bring about their conversion Eph 1:3-4

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The Salvation the Elect experience in time is described in 2 Thess 2:13, a Salvation effected by Sanctification of the Spirit, which results always in belief of the Truth. Believing the Gospel is Conversion. This Saving Work of the Spirit is also pointed out by Paul in Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, [B]]by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

This is Spiritual Salvation by the Spirit, foundational upon the Finished Work of Christ. This is the Elect's Time Salvation.Before Time Began however based Upon God's Eternal Purpose they have Salvation from the Penalty of their Sins, and are Justified before God .

beloved57
June 5th, 2013, 10:09 PM
Those who pervert the Gospel Doctrine of the Election of Grace, do teach that Election is based upon foreseen acts of faith or believing, or what some would say, the accepting of an offered gift, all of which are untrue, false teaching; For the natural man, all the while he is in the flesh, and not born again of God, he is in a lost state of unbelief 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Furthermore his mind is at enmity with God, not able to be subject to the Law of God, and cannot by any means please God in the flesh Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Now how God was to foresee them with an act of Faith [which pleases God Heb 11:6] is beyond scripture.


Now when one is Saved by Grace through Faith, the Faith is not their own, for its all the Gift of God. The Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22, and is the result of Sanctification of the Spirit unto belief [Faith] of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

That's Faith here, belief of the Truth, in fact the word faith in Eph 2:8 and the word belief in 2 Thess 2:13 are both the noun pistis:


conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it

Faith here has nothing to do with man's freewill, for again, if Not for Spiritual New Birth, Faith man in nature cannot have, for Faith pleases God Heb 11:6, but those merely in the flesh [unregenerate] cannot please God Rom 8:8, so how could it possible have been their own faith that God foreseen to elect them to Salvation ? It wasn't, that's all lies.

beloved57
June 23rd, 2013, 10:45 PM
Isa 42:1

Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Christ's Election only confirms the Election of others, those chosen in Him Eph 1:4.

Now Christ is the first person elected or chosen of God, for in all things he has the preeminence Col 1:18. Isa 42:1; Matt 12:18.

He is called the Elect stone, which makes Him the foundation of Election Pet 2:6

Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

Now if it be understood that Christ is God's First Elect, then it should be also understood in connection with that, that He is the First Elect Head as such with members, which members are said to be given to Him, and so that is why Paul writes in Col 1:18 which states that in the beginning [of the world] He was the Head of his body the Church, which Headship is that of His and their Eternal Election together, so Jesus said of the Fathers Love for Him and them Jn 17:23-24

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

And so they were Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The AMP:

4 Even as [in His love] He chose us [actually picked us out for Himself as His own] in Christ before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy (consecrated and set apart for Him) and blameless in His sight, even above reproach, before Him in love.

By this we were always accepted in the beloved Eph 1:6

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Here He is called the beloved as here Matt 12:18

18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

Now because Christ is the Father's first Chosen and as Head He is the Heir of all things, and His Body members Chosen with Him and in Him, He is the Heir of all things Heb 1:2

Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

and so His Body Members Chosen in Him are His Joint Heirs with Him Rom 8:17

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

All the Elect Chosen in Him before the foundation are , co-inheritors with Him.

A Believers joint heirship with Christ isn't conditioned upon them believing in time, but their Election in Him before time does, and their believing in Him in time makes manifest that fact, the fact that they were Chosen joint heirs with Him before the foundation.

beloved57
June 25th, 2013, 07:08 PM
Both Faith and Repentance are fruits of Election of Grace, and they both are sure to be performed by all for whom Christ died as their Covenant Head Isa 42:6

6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

All the means of experimental salvation has been provided for by the Triune God, to include Sanctification by the Spirit unto belief of the Truth [which is Faith in Christ] 2 Thess 2:13.

Faith that is given is a Covenantal Blessing d is also called the Faith of God's Elect, because its Given only to God's Elect Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

And its why they believe and others do not; For Jesus says to some who believed not Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep or Elect, as I said unto you.

The Sheep and Elect are the same persons. When Jesus says to them ye are not of my Sheep, He means they are not of those the Father chose in Him Eph 1:4.

Now in spite of what all freewillers or arminians may say, Christ's words are true here, and He gives the real reason why some Truly Believe on Him and others do not. So believing on Him is the Gift of God's Electing Grace Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

In Election God is pleased to give Faith and Repentance to some and deny them to others, as it seems Good in His Sight.

beloved57
July 2nd, 2013, 01:03 PM
The Elect of God are also the Called of God, for not all men are God's Elect, and so not all men are the Called of God. " The Called" are distinguished from all others s so are the Elect as seen Rom 8:28

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

The Called according to His Purpose. The same is noticed here Rom 9:24,23


24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

All without exception are not recipients of this Call, but the Vessels of Mercy Vs 23

Again 1 Cor 1:24,26

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

Rom 1:6

Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

These the Called are distinguished from all of mankind in general ho are not the called.

Now understand this, The Called according to God's Purpose, is not speaking of an general external call of the Gospel preached in word only 1 Thess 1:5

5 For our gospel[call] came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

But this Call is internal and drawing, and the Spirit is the author of it as Acts 13:2

As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

In Truth, all Believers had been called and separated for the Works God has before ordained for them to walk in them Eph 2:10

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

This Call also is unto Grace and Glory 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Remember they are the Vessels of Mercy being Called who Paul said Rom 9:23-24

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

beloved57
August 22nd, 2013, 11:44 PM
It's no secret from scripture that Christ is God's Elect, The Chosen of God Isa 42:1

Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Lk 23:35

And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

And that being the case, all those God chose in Him Eph 1:4 are the chosen of God.

Let me explain further, Adam the first man created on earth was a figure /type of Him to come, which was Christ the last Adam Rom 5:14

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.ESV

Christ the Last Adam 1 Cor 15:45

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam[Christ] was made a quickening spirit.

Now in the type, Adam had within him [at his beginning], his bride to be, or wife, and his offspring/ descendants or generations. Gen 5:1-2

This is the book of the generation descendants of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Now if Christ is God's Elect as scripture states, then also His Bride/ Wife and Descendants/Offspring/Generations were in Him as His Type, and so that would make them Elect, thats only reasonable

Also Notice again Lk 23:35, it reads Christ, the Chosen of God, and we know there is no Christ apart from His Members, 1 Cor 12:12

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

Christ is the Head of the Body, which body has many members, composed of His wife and descendants [spiritually] He was the Head from the Beginning Col 1:18

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

The only was to do away with a elect people or a chosen generation 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation/offspring, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

To do away with that, you would have to do away with the Chosen Head Christ Lk 23:35

35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

There simply is No Christ without His Body, and when we deny particular Election of a People, we deny Christ.

beloved57
November 18th, 2013, 10:41 AM
Rom 11:5-7

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

The Election of Grace Rom 11:5-7, folks that is what Salvation by Grace through Faith without works is all about. Its rooted in the Election of Grace. Now for it to be of the Election of Grace, and not of works Vs 6, then its unconditional and not influenced by anything outside of God own good pleasure within Himself.

Paul explains the principle involved in God's Election of Grace here in Rom 9:11-13

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Basically in a nutshell, Paul is stating that the Election of Grace, having been chosen by God before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4, that God's choice of them was not influenced by anything He did foresee , but that its solely according to His own will and good pleasure Eph 1:5

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

God never considered the actions or deeds of the Election of Grace whether good or bad ! God's choosing of His elect, the election of Grace, which is also the purpose of election in Rpm 9:11, was before any foreseen works, conditions , steps by them, but solely, that the Purpose of Election should stand, according to His own good pleasure.

Anyone therefore who teaches that God's Election of Grace to Salvation of some is based on anything He foresaw of them, like faith, repentance, or anything else, they deny Salvation by Grace through Faith, not of works, and are nothing but proud boasters, probably on their way to hell unless God converts them !

The reason why all this is True is because God chose them in Christ, and not out of adam or in adam. If this be not true, then the Elect were in adam before they were in Christ, who was before in the Eternal Godhead, [See Jn 1:15] But scripture says they were Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world or before adam existed Eph 1:4 !

beloved57
December 15th, 2013, 05:41 PM
Christ's Eternal Election is His church's as well, for many of the adversaries of the Truth of Election, who oppose the Divine Election of individuals in Christ from the foundation, they attempt to subvert it by stating that only Christ is God's Elect Isa 42:1

Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Which of course is True, but that fact only makes individual election of others Chosen in Him Eph 1:4 a certain fact as well !

Whebn Christ was made God's Elect [an Eternal Act], He was chosen or elected as a Head, the Head of His Body the Church, which is what Paul means here Col 1:15-18


15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

When it says in Vs 17 that He is before all things, this includes His Being as the Head of the Body the Church., He was before all things as the Head of the Body, the Church !

Also Christ is the Antitype of the first adam out of the earth, or adam was a type or figure of Christ Rom 5:14, hence the Last Adam and the First adam, and when adam was brought into existence, it was not him as a mere private person or single individual, God created him with his wife and seed in him, So stated here Gen 5:1-2

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Well Christ as the First born of Every Creature Col 1:15, had His Bride the Church in Him Col 1:17-18.

Adam from the standpoint of natural creation, was the firstborn, but he had others in him, which are called his Generations Gen 5:1

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

He had his generations [I.descendants,] in him, and likewise Christ as the Firstborn of every creature had His Generations in Him, the many brethren Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

So when our adversaries attempt to deny the Election of some by dogmatically insisting that Christ alone is God's Elect, they are only reaffirming, though ignorantly, the Election also of the Many Brethren, the Church, His Body with Him, Just as Adam's Election in Natural Creation, his descendants were in him !

beloved57
December 25th, 2013, 06:49 AM
When Christ was Chosen and set up as the seminal Head and Spiritual embodiment of the Election of Grace, all there individual persons, though uncreated, were foreknown by God. This is typed out here with the inspired words of David Ps 139:14-16

14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

Hence they are the Elect according to the foreknowledge of God 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Because of their Election Union with Christ who was the Foreknown of God 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

These are the same words in the original, foreknowledge and foreknown !

And Just as Christ here was foreknown or foreordained " before the foundation of the world"

They, the Election 1 Pet 1:2 were also Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him "before the foundation of the world", that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

As Christ was the Beloved of the Father before the foundation, and the elect Chosen and accepted in Him Eph 1:6

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

That relates even more to them being the beloved of the Lord and their being chosen in Him 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

This their Election in Christ is Eternal for the existence of Christ as their Chosen Head is Eternal, so again when Christ was setup as God's Elect, then were all the Chosen in Him Elected and Chosen, and Grace was given them in Christ before Adam was created from the dust of the ground, before there was any ground at all Prov 8:25-26

25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

Christ's delight was in them as the Fathers delight was in Him then Prov 8:30-31

30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men[Adam].

beloved57
January 18th, 2014, 04:27 PM
2 Thess 2:13

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Whenever we contemplate a Divine Act of this sort from the Eternal God, we should view it as an act occurring outside of time or the temporal and in the sphere where God is Eternal Deut 33:7

The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say , Destroy them.

Isa 57:15

For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones .

So what does the words "from the beginning" purport in this Salvation statement ?

From scripture I believe it means from Everlasting as stated here Prov 8:23

was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

Or " ever the earth was". The scheme, counsel, purpose was founded, the recipients of it Chosen Prov 8:31

Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

These Son's of men we believe to be the same as those called the Beloved of God in 2 Thess 2:13

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

One of the meanings of Beloved is to take pleasure in or to say to be well pleased, to be contented at or with a thing

As does delights in Prov 8:31 So those the Preincarnate Christ delighted in, are also those from the beginning beloved of the Lord ! So from Everlasting, the Beloved of the Lord, those He delighted in, were Chosen to Salvation from Everlasting !

beloved57
January 19th, 2014, 04:46 AM
Another scriptural way of determining what " from the beginning" means in 2 Thess 2:13 in this matter of being Chosen by God to Salvation, and that it does mean from everlasting or before the foundation of the world, lets look at another scripture about being Chosen by God Eph 1:4

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The Us here are the Church, the Body of Christ whom He Loved and gave Himself for Eph 5:25. So here again Paul tells the Church that God hath Chosen us in the Beloved, When ? before the foundation of the world or as Solomon wrote Prov 8:23

I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

Now only those whose minds are blinded by the god of this world reject or twist these Divine and sublime Truths of the Kingdom of God !

beloved57
February 25th, 2014, 03:46 PM
Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

Rom 11:5,6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

The antichrist followers , those who reject the clear testimony of scripture, that God's Election Purpose and Principle is not based upon works, or any foreseen act of man, whether good or bad, they will nevertheless with contempt and a high hand against God's Truth, they will take a scripture like 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

and wickedly and blatantly assert, that God Elected a Person by His Foreknowledge when He looked into the future and saw who was going believe on Christ by exercising their own freewill, or accept Him, hence imposing upon us to believe that God chooses people for Salvation based upon the very things that His Word declares He did not DO, that is to choose them based upon their works, their doings, their acts, their step ; because rest assured, believing ,or Faith is a work that man does mentally !

The biblical definition of a work is gathered from the greek word ergon :

work, task, employment; a deed, action; that which is wrought or made, a work.


érgon (from ergō, "to work, accomplish") – a work or worker who accomplishes something. 2041 /érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose).

any product whatever, anything accomplished by hand, art, industry, mind

And so the antichrist teachers, in outright highhanded rebellion to the clear scripture testimony Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

Teach contrary to it, we cannot be more defiant than that against the Authority of God's Word !

beloved57
April 20th, 2014, 06:45 PM
Col 3:12

12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

Being the Elect of God is God owning that they are One with His Son, The Elect of God Isa 42:1

Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Also indicated here Lk 23:35

35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

Note: Christ the Chosen of God ! The same word for Elect in Col 3:12 !

Its the same Word because they are both of One Heb 2:11

11 For both he[Christ] that sanctifieth and they[Church] who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Just as Christ and His Members are One and Called Christ 1 Cor 12:12

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

If Christ is God's Elect, who is the Head Isa 42:1 so then are His Members of His Body Elect, for they are One Whole !

Remember Christ is designated as a Seed Singular Gal 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Yet that One Seed is composed of many members 1 Cor 12:12 and so those members are the same, the Elect of Chosen of God as He is Isa 42:1

Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Lk 23:35

35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

So in essence to deny Election is to Deny Christ , and when was Christ first God's Elect ? 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Does not Christ say here Jn 17:24

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Nanja
April 21st, 2014, 06:22 AM
Col 3:12

12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

Being the Elect of God is God owning that they are One with His Son, The Elect of God Isa 42:1

Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Also indicated here Lk 23:35

35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

Note: Christ the Chosen of God ! The same word for Elect in Col 3:12 !

Its the same Word because they are both of One Heb 2:11

11 For both he[Christ] that sanctifieth and they[Church] who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Just as Christ and His Members are One and Called Christ 1 Cor 12:12

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

If Christ is God's Elect, who is the Head Isa 42:1 so then are His Members of His Body Elect, for they are One Whole !

Remember Christ is designated as a Seed Singular Gal 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Yet that One Seed is composed of many members 1 Cor 12:12 and so those members are the same, the Elect of Chosen of God as He is Isa 42:1

Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Lk 23:35

35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

So in essence to deny Election is to Deny Christ , and when was Christ first God's Elect ? 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Does not Christ say here Jn 17:24

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.


Christ's Elect Bride will finally be with Him; They yearn to be with Him just as He yearns to be with Them.
They will finally be all together...forever! Luke 1:33 KJV

"The king's daughter is all glorious within: her clothing is of wrought gold. She shall be brought unto the King
in raiment of needlework: the virgins her companions that follow her shall be brought unto thee. With gladness
and rejoicing shall they be brought: they shall enter into the king's palace." Psalm 45:13-15 KJV

"That He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing;
but that it should be holy and without blemish." Eph. 5:27 KJV

~~~~~

beloved57
April 21st, 2014, 06:34 AM
nanja



"The king's daughter is all glorious within: her clothing is of wrought gold. She shall be brought unto the King
in raiment of needlework: the virgins her companions that follow her shall be brought unto thee. With gladness
and rejoicing shall they be brought: they shall enter into the king's palace." Psalm 45:13-15 KJV

Yes, thats about the Church of Christ in the OT, many today do not believe the OT saints are of the same Body the Church as the NT Saints !

Nanja
April 21st, 2014, 06:46 AM
nanja
Yes, thats about the Church of Christ in the OT, many today do not believe the OT saints are of the same Body the Church as the NT Saints !


And that's because to them is was appointed. 1 Peter 2:8KJV

~~~~~

beloved57
April 21st, 2014, 08:21 AM
And that's because to them is was appointed. 1 Peter 2:8KJV

~~~~~

True dat !

Nanja
April 21st, 2014, 08:30 AM
True dat !

Yup! ☺

~~~~~

beloved57
May 21st, 2014, 08:16 AM
Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Even though scripture teaches that in regards to Salvation, being Saved, man has no reason to boast, yet false teachers tell us that faith, mans act of believing, is an condition man must perform to get saved, which does nothing but bring up a reason for man to boast. Aperson can say to another who is not saved, the reason why you not saved and i am is because I performed Faith or believed and you didn't, folks that is boasting !

But Paul worte 1 Cor 1:28-29

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Boastful and prideful man believes that their act of believing is what caused them to get into Christ Jesus, and Paul knows the deceitful heart, So Paul tells us how any come to be in Christ Jesus, Vs 30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

In other words, the only reason why one is in Christ Jesus, is solely because of their unconditional Election, God's Sovereign choice of them !

"That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord."

Glory in God's Election !

beloved57
July 16th, 2014, 03:24 AM
What makes the Chosen or Elect of God in Deut 7:6-7 and different of a group than God's Chosen or Elect People in Eph 1:4 ?

Deut 7:6-7

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

There is no difference except for dispensation or time, lets begin the comparison that shows they are the same. First both are said to be God's Chosen or Elect Cp Deut 7:6 with Eph 1:4, next both are Loved Deut 7:7; Eph 1:4

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Next, both are Holy before Him Deut 7:6

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Both are a special people unto the Lord Deut 7:6

For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

That word special means:

I.possession, property
A.
valued property, peculiar treasure

B.
treasure

Eph 1:18 says of the chosen in Eph 1:4

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

That word inheritance means :
I.
an inheritance, property received (or to be received) by inheritance

II.
what is given to one as a possession

Also Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

That word peculiar means:

I.that which is one's own, belonging to one's possessions
A.
a people selected by God from the other nations for his own possession


Does not that agree with Deut 7:6

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

Ok The word special in Deut 7:6 actually means possession, property, treasure !

The word inheritance in Eph 1:18 means proprty, possession !

These comparisons have been brought to light to show that the Chosen are the same in both places, both refer to the Chosen in Christ, Israel, the Church, Just under different dispensations, The Old Deut 7 and the New in Eph 1, under the old the chosen was made up of mostly jews, under the New mostly Gentiles Rom 11:25-26

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

beloved57
September 3rd, 2014, 07:39 AM
1 Pet 2:4,6 ; Isa 42:1

4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

Isa 42:1

Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Many of the most staunches enemies of our Election in Christ , attempt to deny the Glorious Truth by stating that only Christ is God's Elect, and by that they deny individual election of persons ! Yet they are ignorantly correct when they say that only Christ is God's Elect, but with that what they wilfully fail to understand, is that Christ's Election is also His Seed's Election in Him. Paul once wrote here Gal 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Christ clearly here is being Identified as Abraham's One Seed, yet later on in Vs 29 many individuals that belong to Christ this One Seed, are also identified as Abraham's Seed Gal 3:29

29 And if ye [As an Individual] be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Do you see that ? In Vs 16 Christ alone is called Abraham's Seed,Just one ! Then in Vs 29 many inviduals who belong to Christ are also Called Abrham's Seed !

What this does is establish a Election Union with Christ and those who belong to Him by Election in Him Eph 1:3-4

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him[Christ Abraham's Seed Gal 3:16] before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

So understand, what the deceived and foolish opposers of individual Election dont understand, is that Christ's Election 1 Pet 2:4,6 ; Isa 42:1 is also the Election of His Seed Chosen / Generation in Him !

beloved57
September 3rd, 2014, 08:00 AM
Understand, The Man Christ Jesus 1 Tim 2:5 the Last Adam 1 Cor 15:45

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

His Election is also the Election of His Seed or Generation in Him, just as His Types Adam the first man as his Seed or generation had a election existence in him ! It was written of the first Adam this Gen 5:1-2

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

Seth with the rest of the individuals following in the chapter are all individuals that had a elective physical being as Adam's Seed or Generation, and who because of it, would be manifested by physical birth in God's Time and Purpose Ecc 3:1-2

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

Seth was born to Adam, to carry on his image and likeness when God purposed it !

Well Believers are but the Chosen Generation of Christ coming into manifestion after their birth 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Speaking to and only of believers, Peter refers to them as a Chosen Generation, this goes back to their having been Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4, and hence they were His Generation or Seed, for a Seed and a Generation are the exact same, Ps 22:30-31

30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

beloved57
September 3rd, 2014, 10:56 PM
Now just as the first adam had a generation/seed in him, that must be begotten in his image and likeness Gen 5:1-3

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Note: God Created Adam with his generations in him !

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

So likwise, the Last Adam, The Man Christ Jesus, those of His generations must He beget in His Image and Likeness ! Thats why He is also called the firstborn of many brethren, those who shall be conformed to His Image Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

These are also His Seed Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed or generation, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Now lets observe something here, believers, before becoming believers and before being born, they are a Chosen Generation / Seed according to 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Also they had been said to be born of incorruptible seed 1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Proving that they were the Generation of Christ, the logos of God, and therefore Chosen in Him whom Himself was the Chosen of God 1 Pet 2:4,6

4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

beloved57
September 4th, 2014, 06:32 AM
Now all of this is being brought forth to show and prove that Christ's Election is the same as the Election of His Seed, just as Abraham's Election is the Election of His Seed Ps 105:6; Isa 41:8, which of course is comprised of individual members. Now to make this truth even the more obvious, we will look at David as a Type of Christ, and how that God made a Covenant with him as His Chosen, which denote certain promises to David's Seed Ps 89:1-4


I will sing of the mercies of the Lord for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.

2 For I have said, Mercy shall be built up for ever: thy faithfulness shalt thou establish in the very heavens.

3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,

4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.


See how David is called God's servant and Chosen in Vs 3 ? Thats the same titles as in Isa 42:1

Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Christ's being God's Elect / Chosen servant, So now notice the Promise to David in Vs 4 as he is God's Chosen and Servant Ps 89:4

4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.

This also applies to Christ's Seed, David's Antitype, therefore it applies to Christ's Seed those Chosen in Him Eph 1:4 and they shall be Established forever, which Christ has a view of here Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him[His Chosen Servant Isa 42:1]; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

According to God's Promise to David, Christ shall see His Seed Established ! Because His soul for them was made a offering for sin ! Thats why we read of believers being established or stablished, Paul wrote to believers here this 2 Thess 3:3

But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

No doubt this word of promise looks back to the Promise made to David the Type of Christ Ps 89:1-4

I will sing of the mercies of the Lord for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.

2 For I have said, Mercy shall be built up for ever: thy faithfulness shalt thou establish in the very heavens.

3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,

4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.

beloved57
September 4th, 2014, 11:28 AM
David the Antitype, which is Jesus Christ, because He made His soul an offering for sin, for His Seed Isa 53:10, satisfying for them God's Law and Justice, hence if His seed does transgress [which they shall by nature], Yet God's Promise unto them for David's sake is Ps 89:30-37


30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;

31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;

32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.

34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.

36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.

37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.




Notice how God says if they [plural] sin Vs 31-32 God would visit their sins with stripes or chastisements [Heb 12:5-11]

And by that God is keeping Covenant Faithfulness with Him, that is David / Christ Vs 33 because they are His Seed !

God's Mercy is for David and His Seed for ever more Ps 89:28-29

28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.

29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.

All of this Great Mercy is because they are God's Chosen within His Chosen One;

Now with all this stated before us, for any to deny that the very Election of Christ Himself is also the very Election of His Seed, individual persons in Him Eph 1:4 is tantamount to denying the Very Election of Christ the Head Himself which is utter Blasphemy !

Nanja
September 5th, 2014, 02:53 PM
"Chosen in Christ the Chosen one !"

This is an excellent, strictly Biblical,
5-part study on this very crucial,
but widely misunderstood topic. TY! ☺


beloved

Now with all this stated before us, for any to deny that the very Election of Christ Himself is also the very Election of His Seed, individual persons in Him Eph 1:4 is tantamount to denying the Very Election of Christ the Head Himself which is utter Blasphemy !


Yes. Absolutely!

~~~~~

beloved57
September 5th, 2014, 09:01 PM
"Chosen in Christ the Chosen one !"

This is an excellent, strictly Biblical,
5-part study on this very crucial,
but widely misunderstood topic. TY! ☺


beloved


Yes. Absolutely!

~~~~~

May God bless you !

beloved57
September 5th, 2014, 10:46 PM
Most religionist of the antichrist suasion, would have us to believe that God's Election of an individual to Salvation is based upon what He foreknows and sees of their actions, which is nothing but a absolute lie, even if the word foreknow is used in its connection as Per 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Now Paul defines the Purpose of Election in Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

And that God's Purpose of Electing Individuals toSalvation is solely of Himself, or from within Himself, His Own Purpose and Grace, according to the pleasure of His Own Will Eph 1:5, for He has Mercy in Salvation on whom He will Rom 9:15-16

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

And Yes experimental Salvation is an Effect of God's Mercy Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; !

A Great Truth about God's Election of men to Salvation Mercy is revealed in the sacred account of Jacob and Esau; and in this narrative Paul makes it clear that God took no regard to the good or evil of these individuals, but that His Purpose concerning them in Election was established before their beings came into existence, before they had any existence and ability to do anything, and hence in this Light He Loved the One, and Hated the other, according to His Own Eternal Purpose of Election Mal 1:1-3

The burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi.

2 I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob,

3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Daniel1611
September 5th, 2014, 10:54 PM
Calvinism is a lie from the pit of hell. But what do you expect from a wicked apostate like John Calvin?

Truster
September 5th, 2014, 11:17 PM
Could you just answer the questions: yes, no, or maybe?

All he can do is cut and paste scripture.

Truster
September 5th, 2014, 11:22 PM
Calvinism is a lie from the pit of hell. But what do you expect from a wicked apostate like John Calvin?

I'm not a calvinist myself, but I have studied his works and read the Institutes and his sermons on Job. You have made a bold statement and I wonder of you would clarify which part of calvinism is from the pit? I ask this because his works contain a great deal of scriptural fact.

beloved57
September 6th, 2014, 04:06 AM
Calvinism is a lie from the pit of hell. But what do you expect from a wicked apostate like John Calvin?

Post 112, did you read it ?

beloved57
September 6th, 2014, 03:33 PM
You see if God's Foreknowledge meant as the antichrist followers tell us it means, that God foreseeing ahead of time who shall believe and who shall not believe, then that collides headlong with God's very specific stated purpose of election, not of works but of Grace Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election [purpose] of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

It is evident that in God's first forming of the Purpose of Election, that it had nothing to do with with man might do [being unborn] and so He is claiming to not have been influenced one iota by any outside of Himself considerations, but that He merely Sovereignly chose some and rejected others, according to His own will !

beloved57
September 8th, 2014, 01:06 AM
Again, Foreknowledge connected with Election 1 Pet 1:2

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied ,

Again as it has been pointed out before, that God's Foreknowledge in Election has nothing to do with what God foresaw of the acts of His creatures in time as Per Illustrated with Jacob and Esau here Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

God did not make His Purpose of Election Choice after seeing what a person was going to accept or reject, simply because, if that was True, Paul lied here when its being said that the Choice was made before the men were born ! Thats clear indication that God did not look to see how they would respond, since that would entail them having to had been born, for what sense would it make to say that God foresaw them acting out before they were born into existence ??

Not only that, such a blasphemous teaching as that is, it argues that God became enlighten by His Creatures, that He gained knowledge of them and their actions, obviously He could not have had before He actually saw it, He had to wait and see how they would act after He Created them ! This is the end result of the fallacious teaching of all those who teach that God's Elective choice and foreknowledge is dependent upon what God foresaw the choices men would make ! Thats is utter Blasphemy and dishonoring of God !

beloved57
September 8th, 2014, 03:02 AM
The Purpose of God according to Election Rom 9:11 !

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

As stated previously, those of the antichrist who pervert this Gospel Doctrine of Divine Election, by lying and saying that its contingent upon God foreseeing the acts and responses of men, that such teachings are a absolute lie, and that it opposes and contradicts the very revealed Mind of God upon this Most Holy and Blessed Truth, its read here in Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

This verse very simply and succinctly yet absolutely tells us that God had no consideration of men [in this Purpose of Election] after they had been born, to determine their Election or Rejection.

Understand something, If God did chose or elect men based upon knowing [after they were born] beforehand how they would act or choose, then Rom 9:11 gives us a false witness of the Mind of God, because they could do no good or evil until after they had been born !

So you who stubbornly insist that Election is based upon a faulty understanding of Foreknowledge, in that it is based upon God foreseeing the actions of men to determine His Election of them, you outright call God a Liar by contradicting clear scripture testimony found here in Rom 9:11 !

Nanja
September 8th, 2014, 03:36 PM
The Purpose of God according to Election Rom 9:11 !

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

As stated previously, those of the antichrist who pervert this Gospel Doctrine of Divine Election, by lying and saying that its contingent upon God foreseeing the acts and responses of men, that such teachings are a absolute lie, and that it opposes and contradicts the very revealed Mind of God upon this Most Holy and Blessed Truth, its read here in Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

This verse very simply and succinctly yet absolutely tells us that God had no consideration of men [in this Purpose of Election] after they had been born, to determine their Election or Rejection.

Understand something, If God did chose or elect men based upon knowing [after they were born] beforehand how they would act or choose, then Rom 9:11 gives us a false witness of the Mind of God, because they could do no good or evil until after they had been born !

So you who stubbornly insist that Election is based upon a faulty understanding of Foreknowledge, in that it is based upon God foreseeing the actions of men to determine His Election of them, you outright call God a Liar by contradicting clear scripture testimony found here in Rom 9:11 !


False Religion does pervert the Sovereignty of God in His Elective Salvation process.
As with regard to His Foreknowledge, it erroneously teaches that God's Election of an
individual is based on what He foreknew of their future actions, and consequently He
reacts favorably by electing them. I believe that this false doctrine actually credits the flesh
of man for his freewill choice of making an acceptable contribution to God's Election process.

But when we understand that God has known and loved His Elect People 1 John 4:19 before
they are even born, all of man's freewill efforts to try and make himself one of God's People
by some action on his part, is of no value whatsoever with regard to achieving eternal Salvation.
For God's choosing and predestining them to the adoption of His children, that they should be
holy and without blame before Him in love, was strictly according to the good pleasure of His Will!
Eph. 1:4-5 KJV

~~~~~

beloved57
September 8th, 2014, 04:09 PM
nanja


As with regard to His Foreknowledge, it erroneously teaches that God's Election of an
individual is based on what He foreknew of their future actions, and consequently He
reacts favorably by electing them. I believe that this false doctrine actually credits the flesh
of man for his freewill choice of making an acceptable contribution to God's Election process.


But when we understand that God has known and loved His Elect People 1 John 4:19 before
they are even born, all of man's freewill efforts to try and make himself one of God's People
by some action on his part, is of no value whatsoever with regard to achieving eternal Salvation.

Yes, since Paul writes and makes clear that the Purpose of Election was determined before the children had not yet been born, that makes it clear that God did not consider their actions of good or evil, simply because we cannot of ourselves do any actions before we are born, am i right ? Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

Nanja
September 8th, 2014, 04:45 PM
nanja





Yes, since Paul writes and makes clear that the Purpose of Election was determined before the children had not yet been born, that makes it clear that God did not consider their actions of good or evil, simply because we cannot of ourselves do any actions before we are born, am i right ? Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)


Yes, of course!

I didn't reference that verse (Rom. 9:11) 'cause the post of yours I responded to had already referenced it 4 times! ☺

~~~~~

beloved57
September 9th, 2014, 01:44 AM
Yes, of course!

I didn't reference that verse (Rom. 9:11) 'cause the post of yours I responded to had already referenced it 4 times! ☺

~~~~~

That's ok !

beloved57
September 16th, 2014, 09:13 AM
Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Salvation is promised to and only provided for in Christ, God's Elect, Israel !

The Salvation that is in Christ Jesus, even Christ Jesus the Mediator 1 Tim 2:5

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Is a Salvation not for all mankind, but for God's own Elect 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

This is that also that David prayed for Ps 106:4-5

4 Remember me, O Lord, with the favour that thou bearest unto thy people: O visit me with thy salvation;

5 That I may see the good of thy chosen, that I may rejoice in the gladness of thy nation, that I may glory with thine inheritance.

beloved57
September 23rd, 2014, 04:03 AM
Salvation is and always has been and will be only for God's Elect, The Israel of God, which has nothing to do with ethnicity 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Notice THAT THEY may obtain the Salvation which is in Christ Jesus ! There isnt Salvation for anyone Else in Christ Jesus but that of the Elect , for this is a clear cut connotation !

And the Salvation here Paul is referring to 2 Tim 2:10 which is about the Church of the Eklect Gentiles, could be no other than the Salvation Promised here for God's Elect Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

The words The Elect are in the original with the definite article indicating that the Elect Paul is speaking of is the one and only Elect of God, yet they do include Gentiles !

διὰ τοῦτο πάντα ὑπομένω διὰ τοὺς ἐκλεκτούς ἵνα καὶ αὐτοὶ σωτηρίας τύχωσιν τῆς ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ μετὰ δόξης αἰωνίου

Nanja
September 23rd, 2014, 07:37 AM
Salvation is and always has been and will be only for God's Elect, The Israel of God, which has nothing to do with ethnicity 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Notice THAT THEY may obtain the Salvation which is in Christ Jesus ! There isnt Salvation for anyone Else in Christ Jesus but that of the Elect , for this is a clear cut connotation !

And the Salvation here Paul is referring to 2 Tim 2:10 which is about the Church of the Eklect Gentiles, could be no other than the Salvation Promised here for God's Elect Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

The words The Elect are in the original with the definite article indicating that the Elect Paul is speaking of is the one and only Elect of God, yet they do include Gentiles !

διὰ τοῦτο πάντα ὑπομένω διὰ τοὺς ἐκλεκτούς ἵνα καὶ αὐτοὶ σωτηρίας τύχωσιν τῆς ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ μετὰ δόξης αἰωνίου



Yes, it is. Christ gave His Life for His Elect Church Eph. 5:25 : ISRAEL Is. 45:17 . That's it!

~~~~~

beloved57
September 23rd, 2014, 09:03 AM
Yes, it is. Christ gave His Life for His Elect Church Eph. 5:25 : ISRAEL Is. 45:17 . That's it!

~~~~~

Amen, Thats the World He so Loved ! Rom 9:13

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Nanja
September 23rd, 2014, 03:06 PM
Amen, Thats the World He so Loved ! Rom 9:13

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.



That's True. And God's love and hate wasn't determined
by anything either of them had done or not done Rom. 9:11,
but was strictly according to His Perfect Will and Purpose.

Jacob represents all the Elect World that God so loved; the Israel of God Ps. 22:23 KJV;
while Esau represents all the non-elect which God hated. His hating of them, speaks
of their being deprived of the love that God had exclusively for His Elect, who were
chosen in Christ before the foundation:

Eph. 1:4, 7
v.4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world,
that we should be holy and without blame before him in love
v.7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins,
according to the riches of his grace

~~~~~

beloved57
September 23rd, 2014, 10:23 PM
That's True. And God's love and hate wasn't determined
by anything either of them had done or not done Rom. 9:11,
but was strictly according to His Perfect Will and Purpose.

Jacob represents all the Elect World that God so loved; the Israel of God Ps. 22:23 KJV;
while Esau represents all the non-elect which God hated. His hating of them, speaks
of their being deprived of the love that God had exclusively for His Elect, who were
chosen in Christ before the foundation:

Eph. 1:4, 7
v.4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world,
that we should be holy and without blame before him in love
v.7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins,
according to the riches of his grace

~~~~~

You have spoken words of wisdom !

beloved57
November 7th, 2014, 11:34 PM
Election in Christ Essential to the forgiveness of sins , for when we read the passage Eph 1:3-8


3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

Its plain from these sacred words that Redemption through His Blood with the Forgiveness of sins has for its foundation Election Vs 4, Yes having been Chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation, results in the bestowing of the Spiritual Blessings, of which one of many is Forgiveness of sins .

Therefore its quite appropriate that when preaching the Forgiveness of sins as Per Lk 24:47

47 And that repentance and remission/forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 13:38

38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

Acts 26:18

8 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

They did not neglect the foundation of this forgiveness of sins, having been Chosen in Christ for it Eph 1:3-4,7 !

Nanja
November 8th, 2014, 08:43 AM
Election in Christ Essential to the forgiveness of sins , for when we read the passage Eph 1:3-8



Its plain from these sacred words that Redemption through His Blood with the Forgiveness of sins has for its foundation Election Vs 4, Yes having been Chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation, results in the bestowing of the Spiritual Blessings, of which one of many is Forgiveness of sins .

Therefore its quite appropriate that when preaching the Forgiveness of sins as Per Lk 24:47

47 And that repentance and remission/forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 13:38

38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

Acts 26:18

8 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

They did not neglect the foundation of this forgiveness of sins, having been Chosen in Christ for it Eph 1:3-4,7 !


Amen!

Forgiveness / remission of sins is not an offer, or made available, to all of mankind.
But the prerequisite is that one must have been Chosen in Christ before the foundation.
And so forgiveness of sins must be preached so that the Elect of God can be informed
that the Blood of Christ has Saved them Eph. 1:13 !

~~~~~

beloved57
November 8th, 2014, 08:51 AM
Amen!

Forgiveness / remission of sins is not an offer, or made available, to all of mankind.
But the prerequisite is that one must have been Chosen in Christ before the foundation.
And so forgiveness of sins must be preached so that the Elect of God can be informed
that the Blood of Christ has Saved them Eph. 1:13 !

~~~~~

Amen, stated very well !

beloved57
December 16th, 2014, 04:28 AM
I hear many times people say that Election, in and of itself, or Election itself is not Salvation, but that its merely unto Salvation, based upon a scripture here 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Now understand something, that verse does not say that Election is not Salvation, but its speaking of the fruit of Salvation in time, inbelieving the Truth, resulting from Sanctification of the Spirit. In a real sense, being able to believe the Truth is a Saving or Salvation [from error]. Thats what Paul means here 1 Cor 1:21

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

For preaching does not save anyone from hell or the penalty of sin, Christ's Death alone done that !

Again here to Timothy 1 Tim 4:16

Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Doctrine does not actually save anyone from the penalty of sin, but it does save from the delusions of sin and false gospels and doctrines , to belief of the Truth !

The Truth however is that ELECTION is ones Salvation from the Eternal Perspective, in the Eternal Realm, wherein from Eternity Past, the Elect ones, Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world as Per Eph 1:4, are by that Divine choice, saved in the purpose of God from the penalty of sin 2 Tim 1:9, and so that shall result in time, a Salvation wrought by the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13, which is but the fruit of Salvation they already had in the Eternal Purpose of God, which is Election Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
)

These Two purposes being the same , here in Rom 9:11 and 2 Tim 1:9, God's Purpose of Election in Christ,

So its concluded, it is not biblically correct to say Election is not Salvation, without clarification of the same !

beloved57
December 16th, 2014, 05:58 AM
All who have been Chosen to Salvation in Eternity Past, or from the beginning , shall in time be called by the Gospel to believe the Truth 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Vs 14 being called by the Gospel, is precipitated by the Work of the Spirit unto belief of the Truth , which is the Gospel !

The Calling of the Gospel in Time reveals who was Elected before Time, so we come to know in time of our election before time by our calling, and thats what Peter means here 2 Pet 1:10

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Calling will always result from Election, and so its an evidence in time of election before time !

So in the scheme of Salvation, there is a Calling restricted to the Election, which of course cannot be the same that are called here without being of the election Matt 22:14

14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

FYI, this called refers to the natural seed of Abraham in the formulation of the Covenant Nation of Israel, However within that Nation resided only a very small remnant of the Election of Grace !

Nanja
December 16th, 2014, 09:06 AM
All who have been Chosen to Salvation in Eternity Past, or from the beginning , shall in time be called by the Gospel to believe the Truth 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Vs 14 being called by the Gospel, is precipitated by the Work of the Spirit unto belief of the Truth , which is the Gospel !

The Calling of the Gospel in Time reveals who was Elected before Time, so we come to know in time of our election before time by our calling, and thats what Peter means here 2 Pet 1:10

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Calling will always result from Election, and so its an evidence in time of election before time !

So in the scheme of Salvation, there is a Calling restricted to the Election, which of course cannot be the same that are called here without being of the election Matt 22:14

14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

FYI, this called refers to the natural seed of Abraham in the formulation of the Covenant Nation of Israel, However within that Nation resided only a very small remnant of the Election of Grace !


Many are confused on this issue of "Is Election Salvation?".

Parts 1 and 2 provide excellent clarification for those who have ears to hear.

~~~~~

beloved57
December 16th, 2014, 09:09 AM
Many are confused on this issue of "Is Election Salvation?".

Parts 1 and 2 provide excellent clarification for those who have ears to hear.

~~~~~

Bless You !

beloved57
December 16th, 2014, 01:51 PM
1 Cor 1:29

That no flesh should glory/boast in his presence.

That word glory is also translated boast as in Eph 2:9 !

Now, we as men by nature hate Election because it gives us no reason to boast about our so called freewill; Thats right, we cannot boast that I chose to believe with my own freewill and so God saved me because of it, and you didn't so God has not saved you ! Thats boasting whether we say it like that or not, but if in the final analysis one can say i am saved as a result of my freewill to believe, and since you didn't use that same opportunity of freewill afforded you, you are still lost, thats boasting or a cause to boast.

But the Pure Doctrine of Election takes that boast away, so the natural man hates that Doctrine !

Nanja
December 16th, 2014, 04:56 PM
1 Cor 1:29

That no flesh should glory/boast in his presence.

That word glory is also translated boast as in Eph 2:9 !

Now, we as men by nature hate Election because it gives us no reason to boast about our so called freewill; Thats right, we cannot boast that I chose to believe with my own freewill and so God saved me because of it, and you didn't so God has not saved you ! Thats boasting whether we say it like that or not, but if in the final analysis one can say i am saved as a result of my freewill to believe, and since you didn't use that same opportunity of freewill afforded you, you are still lost, thats boasting or a cause to boast.


Exactly stated!

It's boasting in what they did: "I chose, because I am more wise than that other guy, who let his opportunity slip away".



But the Pure Doctrine of Election takes that boast away, so the natural man hates that Doctrine !


Amen! Because God's Election is the determining factor in Salvation, not any action of man,
It leaves no room for boasting. But only Praise to God for the riches of His Grace!

Eph.1:6-7 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace

~~~~~

beloved57
December 16th, 2014, 05:51 PM
nanja


It's boasting in what they did: "I chose, because I am more wise than that other guy, who let his opportunity slip away".

Right On !


Amen! Because God's Election is the determining factor in Salvation, not any action of man,
It leaves no room for boasting. But only Praise to God for the riches of His Grace!

Eph.1:6-7 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace

There you go !

beloved57
December 17th, 2014, 03:29 AM
Let me illustrate this freewill boasting concept and how Election puts a stop to it ! Jn 1:12-13

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Now whats makes the difference between those who receive Christ and those who dont ?

The one who is a boaster will say that it was his own freewill that made the difference, but the ones who believe in Election says God's Election made the difference.

See Election points to God making the Difference, but boasting points to their freewill making the difference in saved and lost, or who receives Christ or not.

So thats why Election to Salvation is so hated by the natural man, for then he cannot find cause to boast about what he had done to win God's approval over the other guy !

Nanja
December 17th, 2014, 06:56 AM
Let me illustrate this freewill boasting concept and how Election puts a stop to it ! Jn 1:12-13

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Now whats makes the difference between those who receive Christ and those who dont ?

The one who is a boaster will say that it was his own freewill that made the difference, but the ones who believe in Election says God's Election made the difference.

See Election points to God making the Difference, but boasting points to their freewill making the difference in saved and lost, or who receives Christ or not.

So thats why Election to Salvation is so hated by the natural man, for then he cannot find cause to boast about what he had done to win God's approval over the other guy !


Also with Election, the natural man can't boast, because according to Scripture,
he doesn't even have the ability to receive Christ.

1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

~~~~~

beloved57
December 17th, 2014, 09:05 AM
nanja


Also with Election, the natural man can't boast, because according to Scripture,
he doesn't even have the ability to receive Christ.

1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Correct, they boast about an ability they did not have anyway, that adds fuel to the fire !

Nanja
December 17th, 2014, 03:15 PM
nanja



Correct, they boast about an ability they did not have anyway, that adds fuel to the fire !


Yep. So much for their "freewill" false gospel!

~~~~~

beloved57
January 29th, 2015, 11:18 AM
1 Thess 1:4

4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

The Beloved of the Lord are His Election !

The word beloved is the greek word agapaō, yes the same word found in Jn 3:16

For God so loved/beloved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The ones Paul calls #1 The Beloved and Brethren in 1 Thess 1:4 are the ones Jn 3:16 says God so loved, and so since the beloved brethren are the Election of God in 1 Thess 1:4, so it is with the beloved ones , believing in Jn 3:16, the Election of God !

The ones in Jn 3:16 are the Election of God, evidenced by their believing, for God's Love causes, effects both election and believing !

Lets look back at the context of 1 Thess 1:4-6

5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.

To the beloved and the Election, the Gospel comes to them not in word only but also in POWER !

The word Power in Vs 5 dynamis is the same word used in Rom 1:16

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Thats why they are believing because to them the beloved Rom 1:7

To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Gospel comes to them not in word only BUT " but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance"

Also the word assurance actually means to be fully persuaded, the same word is used here Rom 4:21

And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

So the Holy Ghost Fully Persuades with the Gospel those who are the Beloved of the Lord, the Election ! Thats why TO THEM it [The Gospel] is the Power of God, evidenced by their Believing ! Thats Why those in Jn 3:16 are Believing as well !

beloved57
January 30th, 2015, 09:26 AM
Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Those that are given to Christ are the Election, given to Him initially before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4;Heb 2:13

And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

And the word of promise concerning them, they shall come to Christ, or they shall seek for a intimacy with Him, to become a follower, and it denotes that they have been given Live, which contrasts to them Jesus says earlier these words Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Now the difference in the former ones coming to Christ Jn 6:37, they had been given to Christ by the Father [Election]

They were doing what those in Jn 5:40 would not and could not do, and that is to come to Christ in living Faith, with a Spiritual Hunger and thirst having been created in them for Him by the Spirit Jn 6:35

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Now understand something, the coming in Jn 6:37 is a Spiritual Coming seeking an intimate fellowship with Christ, which naturally a man cannot do.

By nature we do not seek God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Now remember the coming in Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Its the greek word hēkō and means to:

A.to come to one, i.e. to seek an intimacy with one, become his follower: to come upon one (unexpectedly)

Yet that is something we by nature do not do according to Rom 3:11, so therefore those given to the Son by the Father are coming Spiritually, having been given a New Nature that now desires and seeks after Intimacy for Christ ! The men in Jn 5:40 would not come to Christ in that matter , and frankly could not unless they had been given a New Nature as well ! This New Nature is given in accordance with Election !

beloved57
January 31st, 2015, 12:07 AM
Again, the men of Jn 5:40 did not come to Christ in their attempts to attain to Eternal Life, for they would have thought themselves already on that path, Jesus had just said to them Jn 5:38-39

38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

And if ye notice in Vs 38 Jesus indicates that their unbelief is due to a lack of the word of God abiding in them, which i believe speaks of being born of God 1 Jn 2:14

14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

Whenever one is Born of God, the word is engrafted, rooted in them permanently James 1:18-21

18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:

20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

And so its always through the Spirits effecting His power in them ; So Jn 6:37 is speaking of those given to the Son by Election, and by regeneration/being born of God come to Christ seeking and to believe on Him and become His disciples indeed !

beloved57
July 28th, 2015, 04:29 AM
Some in false religion give the lie that the Elect of God dont become so until after they believe, but that is false. There are scriptures that indicate this, titles they[the elect] have before they believe: One such title is God's Sheep or Sheep, or Chosen and these are one and the same ! And they are Sheep before they believe and while they are in a lost state ! This will be shown to be true by a few scriptures; Jn 10:16,26

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Now in Vs 16 they are Sheep that Christ has, but are yet to hear His Voice in the Gospel, they canr become belivers until they hear His voice, because Faith cometh by hearing Rom 10:17

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.

So faith comes by hearing [what is told], and what is heard comes by the preaching [of the message that came from the lips] of Christ (the Messiah Himself).AMP

Because they are Sheep they are given hearing ears Prov 20:12

The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the Lord hath made even both of them.

The hearing of Rom 10:17 is Christ giving Faith or Creating Faith, its the greek word akoé:

hearing, faculty of hearing, ear; report, rumor.

properly, hearing; used of inner (spiritual) hearing that goes with receiving faith from God (Ro 10:17), i.e. spiritual hearing (discerning God's voice; see also Gal 3:2,5, Gk text).

Also in Lk 15:4-7

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Clearly the Sheep was a Sheep/Elect while being in a Lost state or condition ! Even before Repentance

Jesus also said once this Matt 15:24

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Does not this statement indicate that they are Sheep/Elect while Lost ? Yes it does !

Even while Sheep in a Lost state they still belong to Christ their Shepherd, so Christ says of His Lost Sheep, other Sheep I have, and they shall hear His Voice Jn 10:16 ! So they are Elect before Faith !

beloved57
July 28th, 2015, 11:06 AM
Also God's Elect before Faith or believing or their conversion are the Children of God, they only lack the Spirit of Adoption in their hearts which makes their Sonship manifested ! By it they become the Manifested Children of God by Faith ! Jn 11:52

52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

In their ungathred state they are unregenerated alientated away from their Shepherd !

That word gather together is the same word for bring in Jn 10:16

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Thats because the Children of God, the Sheep and the Elect are all the same People !

The only difference is that the word gather/bring is joined with the prep syn which means accompaniment, or together.

Its talking about the joining together of both the jew and gentile Sheep or Children of God under the Headship of Christ !

With both of them joined together under Christ we have the entire household of Faith Gal 6:10 the whole Family Eph 3:15

Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

Note: Even in unregenerecy, the Elect children of God, are not the children of the devil, though they share a common fallen nature, and when the children of God have the Spirit of Adoption sent into their heart, they are manifested from the children of the devil 1 Jn 3:10

10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

The children of God are manifested by Faith in Christ Gal 3:26

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Faith is the evidence we are the redeemed children of God, Gods Elect !

God's Truth
July 28th, 2015, 11:08 AM
Beloved57,

It is nice that you have a friend, or relative here to support you in your beliefs; however, Jesus died for all, and God does not control all our sins and believings.

All can be saved if they humble themselves and repent of their sins.

beloved57
July 28th, 2015, 11:34 AM
Beloved57,

It is nice that you have a friend, or relative here to support you in your beliefs; however, Jesus died for all, and God does not control all our sins and believings.

All can be saved if they humble themselves and repent of their sins.

Posts 147-148 did you read them and understand the points I made ?

God's Truth
July 28th, 2015, 11:40 AM
Posts 147-148 did you read them and understand the points I made ?

God does not make anyone believe. You are a Calvinist and are in great defiance to God's Truth.

beloved57
July 28th, 2015, 11:43 AM
God does not make anyone believe. You are a Calvinist and are in great defiance to God's Truth.
So you don't want to debate the points I made?