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beloved57
November 19th, 2010, 09:01 AM
Ps 103:17

17But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

I do not think it will be argued that Justification by Faith is a very great mercy to experience in this life. This mercy was not just random or by chance , or by freewill, but was established as a sure mercy from everlasting. God, the everlasting God, Preached the gospel of Justification to Abraham centuries ago Gal 3:8

8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

which is referring to Gen 12:3

3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

But now what was the previous bases for this Mercy ? I believe it was the everlasting Covenant which is what Ps 103:17 is referring to, as the Mercy from everlasting.

I believe Jesus coming in the incarnation was a effect of that Covenant and why He is called the promised mercy.

Lk 1:67-73,77,78

67And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,


77To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

78Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us, !

So Christ coming to die for His People is the fruition of the everlasting covenant. His coming was an act of mercy, in that He would give himself, his soul an offering for sin, for the transgressions of God's People.

beloved57
November 19th, 2010, 09:19 AM
Justification from everlasting ! continued


So Christ coming to die for His People is the fruition of the everlasting covenant. His coming was an act of mercy, in that He would give himself, his soul an offering for sin, for the transgressions of God's People.

Isa 53:8-11

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Now no one can read this and not perceive that Christ came into the world with the sin burden [imputed] of His People was to die for. Was not that evident from His prayer right before his crucifixion in the garden. Was not the cup He was to drink, the punishment for the imputed Transgressions of the Elect of God Matt 26:38
-42
38Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

39And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

40And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?

41Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

42He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

Lk 22:44

And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

I believe this vividly shows That sin had been laid to His charge already.

Now here is the big question that needs to be answered, When was this cup laid to His Charge ? We know it was before the actual cross, for the foregoing event in the garden supposes that ! The cup of the imputed guilt of The sins of God's People was laid on Him from everlasting, as the Surety of the Everlasting Covenant.

He struck hands as it were with the Father to become its Surety Prov 6:1

My son, if thou be surety for thy friend, if thou hast stricken thy hand with a stranger,

Now if this be True, then it must also be True, that God, from everlasting, never laid to the charge the iniquities of them Christ had become a Surety for, because God could not now hold them both responsible, that is Christ and them He covenanted for.

This would be therefore their Justification from everlasting. How can those who God will not impute sin, not be Justified ? Thats why Paul wrote in Rom 8:33

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

We plainly see here that non imputed charges = God Justifying !

Here we have it, God not laying any charges on His elect, because they were laid upon their surety, constitutes their Justification before Him.

The only way this Truth can be denied, or not true, is Christ not having become a surety for the sins of Gods elect from everlasting..

beloved57
July 9th, 2011, 10:21 AM
What is Justification ? This word as used in scripture is never used in the physical sense as to produce an inward work in the sinner, but it is strictly forensic, and it is opposed not to our condition as sinful creatures and enmity towards God, but to a state of legal condemnation.

The greek word is dikaiōsis and means:

the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him

2) abjuring to be righteous, justification

The word is used twice in the NT:

Rom 4:25 ;Rom 5:18

It is a term of Law and utilized in Judicial affairs conducted in a court. Those whom Christ died for stand Justified, not guilty before God, solely on the principal or ground work of Christ Blood Rom 5:9 ! And that while they are in a state of impurity and sinfulness. See Rom 5:10

beloved57
July 10th, 2011, 10:19 AM
Justification is a external act of God as a Judge, acting in a Court of Justice on guilty sinners, and not the internal work of the Spirit on the heart as in 2 Thess 2:13. God is acting upon the principal of Justice,according to His Law, He Justifies the Ungodly, and those be the Elect of God. This Justification is not based upon having been renewed by the Spirit as per Titus 3:5, nor because they have repented or believed, nor any such obedience of theirs, but [U]solely on the Obedience and Blood of Christ. Rom 5:19

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Rom 8:33-34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

beloved57
July 10th, 2011, 10:10 PM
Justification is not the act of man, nor is it contingent upon his knowledge of it, but it is solely the act of God the Judge, and is valid from the date that Judge decided the case. God decided on the case of His own Elect before the world began, and Chose them in Christ Eph 1:4;2 Tim 1:9, and in His Righteous verdict gave them Grace and Every Spiritual Blessing for Time and Eternity. Their iniquities which were foreknown by Him, were laid on Christ as He was constituted the Surety of the Everlasting Covenant of Grace Heb 13:20; Isa 53:6, and so God will not impute [lay to the charge] their sins unto them.

These are they that David said Ps 32:1-2

1Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

See Also Rom 4:7-8 ; 2 Cor 5:19; Jn 1:47. God will not impute sin to His Elect because He has laid them already on Christ, and so they are Blessed Matt 25:34

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

beloved57
July 12th, 2011, 09:27 PM
Some who call themselves believers and upholding the Faith of Christ, so understand Justification as a decree to Justify, meaning they believe God will Justify a sinner in the future, but until such time they are born again and brought to act in faith or believing on Christ, and then by this act of reliance, God will then Justifies them. THATS WORKS. So Justification is made like a reward or payment for ones act of believing. This teaching is not of God, but it opposes the work of Christ. For if God declares a sinner righteous because they believe in Christ, it is faith or believing as an act or obedience of ours, and not the blood and righteousness of Christ which is the cause of our Justification. Yet scripture is clear, that as a Judge, God Justifies us because Christ died for us, or because our sins where imputed to Him; and not because we believed it. For Faith is the evidence of Justification and not the cause of it !

Sealeaf
July 13th, 2011, 06:40 AM
Is "justification" different from "forgiveness" and if so how?

beloved57
July 13th, 2011, 07:19 AM
Is "justification" different from "forgiveness" and if so how?

They are different but connected. Forgiveness is because of the redemption we have through the blood of Christ. Eph 1:7

7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Justification is a legal term and means to be declared not guilty and to be declared righteous. This was so when God decided in eternity past that He was not going to impute sin upon the elect world 2 Cor 5:19. Where there is not sin imputed, there is no Transgression, and hence Justification. 2 Cor 5:21

The very fact that the elect world did not have it sins laid to its charge, gives birth to the fact that they were forgiven of them because of the work of Christ, His shed blood.

beloved57
July 13th, 2011, 07:44 AM
In line with this truth of Justification from everlasting, I believe that the Justified had their names written in the Lambs book of life at the same date that God purposed that their sins would be sentenced upon Christ, and that He must die their death, and for them to live through Him. 1 Jn 4:9

In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

Notice that God sent His Son. When was it determined that He would be sent and that the elect would live [spiritually] through Him ? I believe it was determined in the Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Which had to do with the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20

20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

I see the Eternal Purpose and the Everlasting Covenant as the Same !

I believe all whom had their names written in the Lambs book of Life from the foundation, were Justified from all things, as early !

Rev 21:27

And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

beloved57
July 13th, 2011, 08:56 AM
That God had made a Judicial decision not to punish the elect for their sins [Justification] but to impute them unto Christ, in order that He may bear the Justice of them, is seen from the words we read "slain from the foundation " Rev 13:8

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

This is a revelation of the Mind and Purpose of God ! The word slain here is in the greek a perfect passive participle, and denotes that He had been slain once and for all in the Past with results or effects into the present. And by it being from the foundation denotes its none association with time, as it pertains to what is True in the Mind Of God. That is, Christ death in time did not have to yet occur for the reality of it and its benefits were real in God's Reckoning.

Its like what Paul states in Rom 4:17

17(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not[In time] as though they were[already happened].

So from the foundation, Christ had already died for the sins of those He was to die for in God's reckoning, and so they had to be Justified or reconciled to God by His Death as Early in God's Mind. Because scripture states Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

" we were reconciled to God by the death or slaying of His Son " So according to what we see of Rev 13:8, they were Reconciled to God from the foundation ! And to be Reconciled is to be Justified !

Sealeaf
July 15th, 2011, 02:00 AM
They are different but connected. Forgiveness is because of the redemption we have through the blood of Christ. Eph 1:7

7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Justification is a legal term and means to be declared not guilty and to be declared righteous. This was so when God decided in eternity past that He was not going to impute sin upon the elect world 2 Cor 5:19. Where there is not sin imputed, there is no Transgression, and hence Justification. 2 Cor 5:21

The very fact that the elect world did not have it sins laid to its charge, gives birth to the fact that they were forgiven of them because of the work of Christ, His shed blood.

So we are not forgiven of our sins because God grants forgiveness to those who ask it in the name of Jesus but rather have our transgressions not be counted as sins at all because we are elect. A people chosen from eternity to be saved?

Sealeaf
July 15th, 2011, 04:05 AM
The idea that one imagines himself to be a member of a elite group selected from eternity for salvation seems so incredibly arrogant that I want to say that believing oneself to be a member of such a group immediately disqualifies you from membership. You can't both believe in election from eternity and be one of those elected from eternity.

However I can't really say that because I don't believe there is any such thing. Nor would I actually dare to say that belief in one's elected status would disqualify one from salvation. If I believed it, it would be the most arrogant form of spiritual pride and would most likely damn me. But I can't say what it might do to you.

beloved57
July 15th, 2011, 04:44 AM
sl:


So we are not forgiven of our sins because God grants forgiveness to those who ask it in the name of Jesus

Not in my Religion and according to the God I serve and worship, His forgiveness was granted to them that Christ shed His blood for Matt 26:28

28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The word remission here is the greek word aphesis and means:


forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty

It is translated forgiveness six other times in the NT one of which is Acts 5:31

31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

The exalted Christ gives Israel [ His Chosen or His Church] the forgiveness of sins.

Its totally by His Grace, they don't need to ask for it, they have it without asking, without knowing about it, until it is revealed to them. Eph 1:7


7In whom we [The Chosen of vs 4] have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;


This is what believers in my religion believe, i don't know about yours.

The blood of Christ is the basis of the elects forgiveness even from the foundation, because according to God's Purpose He was already slain. Rev 13:8


8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It can be said that way because God had already determined that Christ would die for the sins of all those whose names had been written in the lam's book of life. God in making that determination, never imputed their sins upon them, but upon the Lamb of God.

beloved57
July 15th, 2011, 04:46 AM
sl:


The idea that one imagines himself to be a member of a elite group selected from eternity for salvation seems so incredibly arrogant that I want to say that believing oneself to be a member of such a group immediately disqualifies you from membership.

Sorry, this thread is not about me.

beloved57
August 18th, 2011, 10:35 AM
Isa 45:17

But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Israel here is merely All of God's Elect, Chosen In Christ [Israel] before the foundation !

When is an Elect Person, Chosen in Christ ? Before the foundation Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

When are they saved ? Now this is going to shock most if not all of you, but an Elect one Chosen in Christ before the foundation, they have been saved from everlasting !

Everlasting has regard to no beginning and no ending Prov 8:23

23 I [Christ the wisdom of God] was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

So what does that mean if we were Chosen in Christ before the foundation ? How long have we existed ?

Lets look at Ps 103:17

17But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

Notice that David writes under the inspiration of God, that the Mercy of the LORD is FROM EVERLASTING, upon certain individuals " Those who are fearing Him in Time" to Everlasting.

Now are the Elect saved by Mercy ? Yes Titus 3:5

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

What can be more plainer ? When in God's Estimation were the Elect not reckoned as Vessels of Mercy ? Rom 9:22-23

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

The Elect in the Eternal Purpose of God, have always been Saved by His Mercy in Christ, from Everlasting to Everlasting !

beloved57
August 22nd, 2011, 08:08 AM
Romans 3:24

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

This Grace whereby those whom Christ died for, and by which they are Justified before God, was given them in Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Everyone Christ died for, God out of Grace towards them through Jesus Christ, declares them Justified freely without any cause.

The word freely here in the text is the greek word dōrean and means:

undeservedly, without cause. The word is translated without a cause here Jn 15:25

25But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

There is not a cause within them why God Freely Justified them by His Grace, the Merit is in Christ Jesus, His Redemptive work. Its nothing they did such as believing, nor repentance or water baptism, absolutely nothing they did, said or even thought, but entirely through what Christ did for them.

Christ was slain for them in God's Purpose before the foundation Rev 13:8 and as previously stated the Grace which they are Justified by was given them in Christ Jesus before the world began !

This Justifying Grace was given to us [If we are Elect] prior to when the world began, Thats Eternal Justification !

beloved57
August 22nd, 2011, 05:50 PM
Rom 8:33,34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

If we are Elect, we are Justified. Its no such thing as being God's Elect and not Justified by Him. Now I dare not hold back the idea that at the same date God considered us His Elect, its the same date He Justified us, and is the same date the challenge goes forth " Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's Elect" Shall God who chose them and Justified them lay anything to their charge ? Shall God who Loved them with an everlasting Love lay any charge to them ? I say No ! How long have they been God's Elect ? It was before they were born according to the principle set forth in Romans 9:11

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

Who is He that condemneth the Elect ? vs 34

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

This question refers to the Elect in the previous verse ! When did God ever condemn His Elect ? If He did, then He must have layed a charge or charges against them, which is contrary to the thoughts of vs 33

Who condemneth, because it is Christ that died ! Meaning He was condemned to die for them. If Christ was condemned to die for them, then who condemned Christ ? It was God. God charged Christ with their condemnation that they incurred here Rom 5:18

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Now God either charged the All Men with condemnation or He charge their condemnation to Christ to die for, which one ? it cannot be both.

And when did God Purpose not to Charge the Elect and to Charge Christ ? Whenever that date was, thats how long the elect have been Justified. For it is God that Justifieth !

beloved57
August 28th, 2011, 10:15 PM
Rom 8:28-30

28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

All the aorist tense verbs foreknow,predestinate, called, Justified, and glorified, all these are things God did in timeless Eternity before the world began. Paul here is not enumerating events that transpired in time, but events of God in His Eternal Purpose and Decree. They are all done as far as God is concerned, even though we, the elect in Christ do not come to experience them until time. So the elect, according to God's Eternal Purpose of Grace are already foreknown, predestined, called or named as His Children], Justified and Glorified.

beloved57
September 2nd, 2011, 08:21 AM
Acts 13:48

48And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

All those or the "as many as" were ordained to eternal life, were eternally Justified, they had already Christ Righteousness imputed to them, and their sins imputed to Him in the counsels of the Everlasting Covenant ! To have been ordained to eternal life is not a time or temporal doing, it was accomplished in Eternity by God based upon the Lamb slain from the foundation !

beloved57
September 4th, 2011, 08:37 AM
The scripture teaches Eternal Justification in Rom 8:29-30


29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Paul in these verses is not speaking so much as to what has or will transpire in time, but what has been accomplished and is a done deal in the Eternal Purpose of God. These things are done in His Purpose before the world began, and before we come to experience them in time.

The Prophecy of Isa 53 of the suffering servant proves the basis of Eternal Justification, by placing all the events of His suffering in the past tense, not the futre tense, because Isiah's Prophecy was declaring the decree of God.

Yes, I know that the events would have an accomplishment in time, but that would only be the manifestation of what was a done deal from the standpoint of God's Eternal Purpose ! Ecclesiastes 3:15

15That which hath been[In God's Eternal Purpose] is now; and that which is to be hath already been[In God's Eternal Purpose]; and God requireth that which is past.

beloved57
September 5th, 2011, 10:08 AM
Before the world began God saved and called [named] His Elect with a calling of Grace given them in Christ from Eternity, 2 Tim 1:9-10


9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

10But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Now the word called in both 2 Tim 1:9 and Rom 8:30 are speaking about a calling or a naming that took place before the world began. It is the greek word kaleō and means:


to call i.e. to name, by name

a) to give a name to

1) to receive the name of, receive as a name

2) to give some name to one, call his name

b) to be called i.e. to bear a name or title (among men)

c) to salute one by name

They were named or called the Children of God by their Union with and being Placed in the Son of God. The Children of God Heb 2:13-14

13And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

They were named or called Children before partaking of flesh and blood in Adam !

Yes, before the world began, before the foundations thereof were laid, God named all His Chosen the Children of God, even at that date they were sanctified or set apart from all others who would populate the world Jude 1:1

1Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

And so being called or named as Children in the Eternal decree of Election in Christ, they were Justified then in God's Eternal decree, or named in the Everlasting Covenant for their Surety of the Covenant.

beloved57
September 5th, 2011, 01:12 PM
Now all who were named or called, at the same time, by the same Divine Purpose and Decree, Justified by the Grace of God, given them in Christ Jesus 2 Tim 1:9, through the redemption of Christ Blood, as the Lamb slain from or before the foundation of the world.

Rom 3:24

24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rev 13:8

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The trespass they would commit in time, first in Adam their head, and their personal sins when after they are born sinners, they were never laid to their Charge legally, and because of non imputation they were already forgiven of all sin, for David writes of that Ps 32:1-2

1Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile. See Rom 4:7-8 also !

They also were declared Righteous by Imputation of Christ Righteousness, that He would faithfully work out in Time. All this was accomplished before one speck of dust was created to this world !

beloved57
September 6th, 2011, 09:23 AM
In God's Eternal Purpose, the Elect were predestinated to be conformed to the Image of His Son Rom 8:29

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

So this Fact tells us that God already reckoned them as Sons, so they were Justified in His Eternal Decree, He viewed them in Christ, His Only Begotten Son. This means consequently, all their sins were forgiven before they were committed, the curse withdrawn before it was incurred, God's Justice completely satisfied before the Law was broken, they were Justified in Christ before they sinned in Adam, accepted or Highly Favored in the Beloved before they were made sinners. The Redemption of the Elect was done, accomplished, when the Father accepted Christ as their Surety, and had respect unto His sacrifice, as the Lamb slain from the foundation ! Rev 13:8

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

beloved57
September 10th, 2011, 10:22 AM
One would have to be blind completely not to see that scriptures indicates that Justification of God's Elect by God's Grace is an Eternal Act. This Truth is plainly an Apostles Doctrine and not something just read into scripture. In Both 2 Tim 1:9 and Rom 8:30 Paul is showing the Eternal Purpose of God, by which all things work according to Eph 1:11. He[Paul] is declaring the Decree of God, and in God's decree, all of the Elect were Saved, Justified, and Glorified from Everlasting in Christ.

beloved57
September 13th, 2011, 10:50 AM
Paul who taught the Eternal Justification of all who are True Believers in Christ, who come to believe in Him in time, that they were accepted in the beloved before the foundation of the world, in accordance with having been Chosen in Him at that date Eph 1:3-6

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

The verb accepted is the greek word charitoō and means:


to make graceful

a) charming, lovely, agreeable

2) to peruse with grace, compass with favour

3) to honour with blessings

This has to do with the gracious and favorable acceptance of the Chosen Ones of their Persons in the Beloved, which is Christ. Now when was this ? Why its when He chose them in Him before the foundation of the World. Remember this acceptance is according to and to the Praise of the Glory of His Grace to them. When was this Grace given to them ? 2 Tim 1:9

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

It was given them in Christ Jesus before the world began.

As such, God considered them Righteous, if Righteous, then Justified. This is what is meant by being Justified by His Grace.

Rom 3:24

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

This Justification by Grace here had nothing to do with being done in time, yes it was through or on the grounds of the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus, meaning His Death, but, God reckoned that as a done deal in His Eternal Purpose and so He was the Lamb slain from the foundation Rev 13:8

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

No, the cross had not occurred yet in the temporal, but it did in the Eternal, because God's realization of things are always present to Him and Eternal.

beloved57
September 18th, 2011, 04:09 PM
Eternal Justification is Taught in scripture by the fact that there is a book of Life with names inscribed in it from the foundation of the world Rev 13:8;17:8. These are the ones that God called or named in His Eternal Purpose Rom 8:30;2 Tim 1:9. In both of these verses the word called is the greek word kaleō and means:


to call

a) to call aloud, utter in a loud voice

b) to invite

2) to call i.e. to name, by name

a) to give a name to

to receive the name of, receive as a name

2) to give some name to one, call his name

b) to be called i.e. to bear a name or title (among men)

c) to salute one by name

Thats why its written that Jesus calls His own Sheep by Name Jn 10:3

To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

See, they were named in the Lambs Book of Life before the foundation, and they are His Own !

The Book of Life is the Book of Election, it knows and names everyone Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4. Its the names of all for whom Christ was made a Surety for in the Everlasting Covenant Heb 7:22;13:20.

It is the book of all whom have laid to their charge the Righteousness of their Surety Jer 23:6;33:16

In this book are the names of all for whom the Surety was slain for them from the foundation Rev 13:8. In this book are all the names of all whom God has Promised Eternal Life Titus 1:1-2


1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

1 Jn 2:25

25And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

This was their Eternal Justification, their sins were never laid to their Charge, but unto Christ...

beloved57
September 19th, 2011, 10:21 AM
Eph 3:11

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Its quite appropriate to say a word on God's Eternal Purpose when considering such a subject matter as Eternal Justification.

Most religionists fail in their understanding of God's Eternal Purpose or Decree. The Decree is Eternal [Timeless] but it is executed as well in time, however by it being Eternal in the Mind of God who is Eternal Deut 33:27;1 Tim 1:17, its completed from His Eternal Perspective ! An Eternal Being cannot but view things from an Eternal Perspective, since He is God. For God's realization of His Eternal Purpose is not dependent upon the succession of Time or neither is it in Him a process that needs fulfilling before He realizes the completion of it. Now it does for us, His creatures, but that's why we are not God, and can never be God, because our rational being's is Temporal. There is succession of God's Eternal Purpose only as it is revealed in Time to the creature. For us to think that God only realizes His Eternal Decree or Purpose as it is realized in time by us His creatures is to bring God down to our level as a Temporal Being, or it is exalting ourselves to be equal with Him. For God's realization of things are not governed by temporal means, such as time.

The fulfillment of God's Eternal Purpose in time, is not bring realization of His Purpose to Himself, but to bring realization of it to His creatures in time Heb 6:17-18, He shews to the Heirs of Promise the immutability of His Counsel. God's Eternal Decree comprehends all things before time, throughout time and after time !

beloved57
September 20th, 2011, 10:12 AM
The Justification of the Elect before they believed is Taught in Rom 4:25

25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Here all the elect or the church were Justified in their Head and Representative, when He rose from the dead after being delivered for their offences!

The YLT: who was delivered up because of our offences, and was raised up because of our being declared righteous.

Christ resurrection from the dead was a testification or gives testimony that all for whom He died have been legally aquitted or discharged from all their sins. It was more than just an acquittal of Christ, because He was not delivered for His own offences, but the offences of others.

For Christ was their Surety, made so from Eternity in the Everlasting Covenant when He had their sins laid to His charge [imputation], by which He became legally liable by the Justice of God, and in due time, He gave Himself as an Offering for their sins, and when He arose from the dead, not as an private person, for He did not die as a private person for his own transgressions, but for the sins of the Many. So when He rose Justified and acquitted, then those for whom He died were also acquitted and Justified. For if He was delivered for their sins, then He was raised for their Justification, therefore all for whom Christ died and rose for , are Justified, even if they have not yet been born sinners, for God knows whose sins He bare , because it was for all those the Father hath given Him Jn 17:2. To deny this, one may as well deny Christ's resurrection from the dead. All this was accomplished [their Justification] before they believed a thing !

beloved57
September 20th, 2011, 06:09 PM
If one is of the Elect, they are Justified as Early as their Election was. Now Paul writes in Rom 8:33

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Election and Justification go hand in hand. Paul writes that it is God that Justifieth. Who ? Why the Elect, which is quite plain from the scripture, for this cannot be gainsaid, and from it we read that nothing can be laid to the Charge of God's Elect, but He has Justified them. Now how long has God viewed them as Chosen or Elect in Christ ? Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

How long ? Before the foundation of the world, then scripture teaches the Elect before God, have been Justified before the foundation of the world.

Also it should be noted that scripture teaches that God viewed His Elect in Christ before the world began, and scripture plainly teaches that there is no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus Rom 8:1 and 2 Tim 1:9

beloved57
September 21st, 2011, 05:47 AM
If we read the sacred writings in Rom 8:33-34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

It cannot be denied that Paul points to God's Elect as being the Ones God Justifies !

Now Who shall lay any Charge upon God's Elect ? Mind You Paul was not Just speaking of God's Elect in his present, but even of those who were yet to be born in the future ! Who would be able to lay charges against them ? Would they be born sinners as other men ? Of course they would. Would they be under the same legal condemnation as other men ? No they would not ! Why ? Because they are God's Elect, and others were not. Thats a benefit of being one of God's Elect, that other men do not have.

So God's Elect can not have anything laid to their Charge, for God has Justified them. Now when did they become God's Elect ? Was it when they believed ? No, they were His Elect from everlasting, they were Chosen in Christ before the world began, and given grace in Him Eph 1:4;2 Tim 1:9. If this be True, then as His Elect then, they were ['declared not guilty] and declared Righteous at the same time.

Also it was by Electing Grace that they were placed in Christ, and reckoned as in Him before the foundation of the world, and if this be so, then they must be reckoned as Righteous, for there is no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.

beloved57
September 22nd, 2011, 02:41 AM
Justification has it's beginning [ If we can call it a beginning], not when a sinner believes or is converted, not even when Christ died upon the cross [in time] but before the world began in the Eternal Counsels of the God Head, in the Everlasting Covenant, at which time [ If we can call it time] many were chosen in Christ Jesus, The Only Eternally Begotten Son and Mediator, and they were Predestinated to the Adoption of Children see Eph 1:3-5 and 2 Tim 1:9, here it is stated that many in Christ were given Grace and Justification is freely by Grace Rom 3:24

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. The word freely here is important. It is the greek word dorean and means undeservedly ! Not because of ones Faith or Repentance or anything they did or did not do, not even their accepting it, for they did not even exist yet except in God's Mind and Eternal Purpose.

Now this being True, The Elect were viewed by the God Head in Christ and having Union with Him from Everlasting, and this Eternal Union is the foundation of the communicating of all the spiritual blessings or saving benefits [from the fall] which they the elect receive in time, all for the Glory of God's Grace freely given them in Christ before the world began Eph 1:6; 2 Tim 1:9 !

beloved57
September 22nd, 2011, 04:27 PM
Justification is not a work that was wrought in the elect sinner [inwardly], for it is not the New Birth, however it is the fruit of it. In other words all whom are Justified from everlasting will in time be the recipients of the New Birth by the Spirit. This is when God causes the elect sinner to partake of a nature that corresponds with His declaration of them as Justified or Righteous because of the obedience of Christ. However Justification is just a legal term that defines the elect sinner as righteous in the Mind of God, even when the sinner is unrighteous in themselves and their manner of life. What they do or are doing or what they have not done has nothing to do with it, but it only has to do with what Christ done in their behalf, and the Father hath accepted it.

beloved57
September 27th, 2011, 04:43 AM
Justification is legally and declaratively a right standing before God as Judge. One can be before God either Justified or condemned, there is no middle ground. One is either born into this world as Justified or condemned before God, though all are born sinners. These are both what is termed forensic words, having to do with a courtroom setting. Now reconciliation, propitiation, justification and remission of sins are all joined together and all are dealt with by the blood of Christ. His blood has satisfied God's Justice in all these area's. Everyone Christ died for, having been slain in the Eternal Purpose of God before the foundation of the world, are reconciled, propitiated, justified and have remission of sins when they are born in this world dead in Trespasses and sins. This is True only Legally before God without them knowing about it.

beloved57
October 11th, 2011, 12:06 PM
Rev 13:8

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

If in the Eternal Purpose of God, the Lamb has been slain from the foundation of the world, what was He slain for ? It was for the sins of those He was actually slain for in time ! God's Elect. We know this because Peter writing to God's Elect in 1 Pet 1:1-2 writes this to THEM 1 Pet 2:24

24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Whose our sins ? Its the Elect according to the foreknowledge of God !

Now, if Christ was slain in the Eternal Purpose of the Father, it was for the sins of the foreknown Elect of God.

And that means their sins had been imputed to His Charge, in the Eternal Purpose of God before the foundation of the world. See 1 Pet 1:20 !

It was before the foundation of the world that the Triune God, The Father, Word, and Holy Spirit, The God-Head, in the Counsel of the Everlasting Covenant, Christ being the designated Surety thereof, The Father imputed, laid to the Sureties charge, in His Mediator Office 1 Tim 2:5, the sins of all His Elect. Also they received from Him the Imputed Righteousness of His future obedience unto the Law of God.

This imputation concerns only the Election of Grace among men, and not that of the reprobates, men or angels !

beloved57
November 9th, 2011, 04:24 AM
Everyone who is truly believing in the Son of God for their Salvation Jn 3:16, for the word believing there is in the present tense hence "whosoever is believing" was eternally Justified in the Purpose of God by the Grace of God Rom 8:30; 2 Tim 1:9

Rom 8:30

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

2 Tim 1:9

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

The Justification of the Elect of God did not begin in time, but from everlasting. Paul when revealing in His Gospel the eternal decree of God and of predestination, states clearly that all of God's Elect were Justified in His Eternal Purpose of Grace ! Thats what Paul also points to in Titus 3:7

7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

What Hope of Eternal Life ? This right here Titus 1:2

1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

The Elect were made Heirs of Eternal Life before the world began, by Grace, and they were Justified by that Grace before the world began !

The writer John Gill once said " God's will to elect is the election of His People; so also His will to Justify them is the justification of them" !

God's Justification of His People is an act of Grace and based upon the redemption that is in Christ Jesus Rom 3:24

24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Now this redemption, took place in the mind and purpose of God before the foundation of the world 1 Pet 1:20 and Rev 13:8


20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Rev 13:8

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

beloved57
November 9th, 2011, 06:43 AM
The religious people of our time have shown profound irreverence to God, as though, when something in the Mind of God means nothing to them, as though what's in His Mind as True cannot be True unless its true in the minds of his creatures, reducing God to their levels, which is blasphemy !

However in the Mind and Purpose of God, the Lord Jesus Christ was the lamb Slain from the foundation of the World Rev 13:8

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

This is not saying that He was literally slain in time from the foundation, but that He was slain in the Mind and Eternal Purpose of God from the foundation of the World !

You see God the Father constituted His Son as an Surety of the Covenant, the Everlasting Covenant before the world began. He was designated a substitute and redeemer before the world began, and as such God in His own Mind looked upon His Son as having been slain, put to death for the Sins of His Elect from Eternity. This was prefigured with Abraham and Isaac. Even though Abraham did not literally put his son to death, he certainly had purposed to do so in his mind ! This purpose was so real that it was said that he received his son back from the dead ! Heb 11:19

19Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

Abraham looked at his son as good as dead, and believed that God could raise him from the dead to establish His earlier promises regarding him !

And so, The Father looked at His own beloved Son as already scarified for His Sheep from everlasting, according to the agreement in the Everlasting Covenant , when Christ became Surety !

Its dishonoring to God to despise and treat with contempt that which He See's as real and complete in His Mind, because it was not so in the minds of His creatures..

beloved57
February 4th, 2012, 05:04 PM
As we should consider the Gospel Truth of Eternal Justification, we Look at Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

For it cannot be honestly denied that God the Father did view the Chosen as In Christ before the Foundation of the World, for they were Loved in Him Before the foundation of the world Jn 17:23-24

23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Now, If God the Father did view them in Christ before the foundation, did He view them in a state of condemnation or Justification ? We dare not conclude condemnation because that is impossible for those which be in Christ Jesus Rom 8:1, So it must be Justified, for also He did not lay their sins to their charge in Adam Rom 8:33-34; 2 Cor 5:19. The conclusion is obvious, they were Justified before the foundation of the world !

beloved57
February 4th, 2012, 06:17 PM
I have some points derived from scripture Truth, why all those Christ died for are Justified from Eternity, from their sin adam and consequently all sin following. I have listed six reasons, and I am indebted to God through one John Brine from his treatise on Eternal Justification.

Point #1 Justification is an immanent, and consequently an eternal act. This argument must be allowed conclusive, unless it can be proved that Justification is a transient act.

What is meant by an immanent act ? Well the word itself means:


remaining within; indwelling; inherent.

2.
Philosophy . (of a mental act) taking place within the mind of the subject and having no effect outside of it. Compare transeunt.

3.
Theology . (of the Deity) indwelling the universe, time, etc. Compare transcendent ( def. 3 ) .

It means it's a inward act of God's reckoning. Its a Judgment of God based on nothing outside of Him, and so such a act would be Eternal simply because God is Eternal Deut 33:7

The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

This is why David could write regarding God's Mercy Ps 103:17

17But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

You see that ? The mercy of the Lord is from Everlasting to Everlasting, to who ? Those who fear Him or the Vessels of Mercy Rom 9:23

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

An Immanent Act of God is different from an transeunt act of God which produces effects outside of God ! An example of that would be Creation, it's accomplishment is outside of God and by His Power !

beloved57
February 5th, 2012, 02:57 PM
2. The elect were by God considered and viewed in Christ from everlasting; which is excellently expressed by Dr. Thomas Goodwin in these words:

"Look, as God did not, in his decrees about creation, consider the body of Adam singly and apart from his soul, nor yet the soul without the body (I speak of his creation and state thereby) neither should either so much as exist, but as the one in the other: so nor Christ and his church in election, which gave the first existence to Christ as a head, and to the church as his body, which each had in God's decrees." Exposition of the First Chapter of the Epistle to the Ephesians, London, 1681, Pt. 1, p. 72.

Now as God considers His elect in Christ, they are either objects of condemnation, or Justification. The former must be denied, and therefore the latter evidently follows; except, as God beholds the elect in Christ, they are neither objects of condemnation, nor Justification; which is an absurdity that none will admit.

There is no doubt that God viewed His Chosen In Christ before the Foundation Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

beloved57
February 6th, 2012, 08:50 PM
Eph 1:3-4

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The Elect were blessed with all spiritual blessings in Christ before the foundation of the world, and therefore with Justification, for that is a spiritual blessing !

It was then they were taken into covenant relationship with and in Him, to be God's peculiar people, and were thereby eternally Justified in Him from all things. It was then that Christ their Chosen Head became their Surety, and covenanted to pay all their sin debts as Justice due, for the sin they shall commit in Adam along with all the sins they shall commit after their personal manifestation into the world !

This Grace by which they are Eternally Justified, was given to them In Christ [Their Surety Head and Mediator] before the world began, from Everlasting, because from everlasting God Loved them in Christ and made them accepted in Him !

beloved57
February 7th, 2012, 09:47 PM
When Christ, as a surety, engaged for the elect, they were Justified. "At the same time in which Christ became a surety for us, and our sins were imputed to him, we were absolved from guilt, and reputed just; that is, actively justified:" Which was from everlasting, or before the foundation of the world.

I believe God the Father constituted His Son a Surety in the Counsel of the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20
20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Prov 8:22-23,31

22The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

31Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

beloved57
February 8th, 2012, 10:49 PM
God eternally decreed not to punish sin in his people, but in his Son. His decree to punish sin in his Son, includes his will to impute it to him; and his purpose not to punish it in his elect, takes in his will not to impute it to them, and must be their Justification from all sin in his sight.

I believe this is why Paul wrote 2 Cor 5:19

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

This has to do with God's Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

This Eternal Purpose in Christ is the same as the Everlasting Covenant with Christ, and God never purposed to impute sins to the Elect, but upon Christ, so this was their Justification !

beloved57
February 9th, 2012, 11:46 PM
6. "Christ's atonement and bearing sin was in the eye of God from eternity, as if already done: hence the patriarchs were actually and personally justified by it,"

as Dr. Isaac Chauncy well observes. Neonomianism Unmasked, London, 1692, Part 2, p. 53. Therefore why may it not be concluded that the elect were justified from everlasting, since God had the atonement of Christ then in His eye? I should be glad to see these arguments thoroughly examined, and solidly refuted, if they do not sufficiently prove what they are brought for.

We know this point to be True because of such scriptures as 1 Pet 1:20

20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Rev 13:3

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

beloved57
March 25th, 2012, 03:38 PM
Justification before the foundation for the Elect of God is True because of Christ's Suretyship in the Everlasting Covenant Heb 7:22

22By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

This is Pre Creation within the Eternal Purpose Eph 3:11

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Also called the Everlasting Covenant, Christ the Lamb slain from the foundation Rev 13:8, He agreed and took upon Himself all the sins of the Elect to sponsor, hence it was God's Purpose not to charge them [sins and lawbreaking] against His Elect, but confirmed Christ's Suretyship, therefore He became the main debtor to God's Law and Justice for their sins, and they being made free from any and all accountability, to for themselves to satisfy God's Law and Justice ! To deny this Justification is to deny a foundational blessing of Christ's Suretyship for His Sheep !

beloved57
April 1st, 2012, 04:36 PM
As the fruit of Eternal Justification, there will be subsequent declarations of Justification and or manifestations of Justification. For example, the Resurrection of Jesus Christ as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep, declares that the Sheep are Justified Heb 13:20

20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Rom 4:25

25Who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for our justification.

So The Resurrection declares Eternal Justification because the sins Christ died for, He was given Suretyship of them before the World began,

And Faith declares the sinner Justified as they receive experimental peace and joy and spiritual Knowledge of Justification by Faith Rom 5:1

But these are fruits of Eternal Justification !

TruthSetsFree
April 2nd, 2012, 12:48 PM
[INDENT]Ps 103:17

17But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

I do not think it will be argued that Justification by Faith is a very great mercy to experience in this life. This mercy was not just random or by chance , or by freewill, but was established as a sure mercy from everlasting. God, the everlasting God, Preached the gospel of Justification to Abraham centuries ago Gal 3:8

]

If you read the Bible you will find that there is no such thing as eternal security

I've read the whole thing so dont bother printout out long passages...

SeraphimsCherub
April 2nd, 2012, 12:55 PM
If you read the Bible you will find that there is no such thing as eternal security

I've read the whole thing so dont bother printout out long passages...

thats a complete lie straight from the pits of hell!


Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

beloved57
April 2nd, 2012, 06:47 PM
If you read the Bible you will find that there is no such thing as eternal security

I've read the whole thing so dont bother printout out long passages...

Go fly a kite somewhere !

beloved57
August 18th, 2012, 07:48 PM
Where the man of sin ministers and followers greatly error, is they fail to understand the origin of ones Justification before God, in the Eternal Mind of God, for it is God that Justifieth Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

And as it is God's act, it is immutable from Everlasting, founded upon the Covenant Engagements of the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ, hence Justification from Eternity, because its origin is an act of God's Mind, which acts are Eternal and Immutable, not subject to change Mal 3:6

For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

There is also a Justification at the Resurrection of Jesus Christ,m the Covenant head raised from the dead Rom 4:25, and this being more clearer revelation of the Immutability of His Eternal act of Justification, and then of course at the time of New birth, there is another revealing of God's Eternal act of Justification, in the conscience of the redeemed one, which this is Justification by Faith ! Rom 5:1; Rom 8:30

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

beloved57
September 15th, 2012, 03:02 AM
God's Purpose and Will not to punish sin in the Elect is their Justification from all sin, for God's Purpose not to punish sin in His Elect is Revealed in His Purpose of Christ's Death before the World began, Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain[For the sins of the Elect] from the foundation of the world.

1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained[To Be slain for sin] before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

These scriptures reveal a valuable FACT that God not never at one Time before the foundation of the World purposed to punish the sins of the Elect in them, hence He never imputed them [their sins] to their charge, this non imputation of their sins from before the foundation of the world, was their acquittal and Justification from all sin from the foundation of the World, for we read of the blessedness of non imputation here Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

beloved57
September 18th, 2012, 10:48 AM
What about Justified in Rom 8:29-30 ?

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


In this sequence given by inspiration of the Eternal Purpose of God in Election to Glorification coming to fruition,Paul places call [in time] before Justification, which means as God's Eternal Purpose unfolds in time to each vessel of mercy or the [them], we see not why to confess that in a point of time, the elect individual called by the Gospel is Justified by Faith given to them in the New Birth, for this fulfills the Gospel promise to Abraham that God made here Gal 3:8

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

This is part of the Eternal Decree, that God purposed. That God would Justify the heathen through Faith is something God decreed to do, and also these would be Abraham's Seed !

So God had decreed to give the Elect evidence [Faith] of their Eternal Justification to their own consciousness in time, by sending the Holy Spirit to set them apart to Faith or the belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13, in this, Christ is revealed to them and they are given a Knowledge [spiritual] of Salvation or Justification by the remission of their sins Lk 1:77 which took place before the world began by non imputation, because they [their sins] were imputed to their Covenant Head and Surety before the World Began ! But yes, there is time in time, when the Elect are Called, then Justified by Faith in their consciousness as God Promised to do here Gal 3:8 !

beloved57
September 18th, 2012, 01:00 PM
The Justification of the Elect, an immanent act of God, was always abiding in Him by Covenant Engagement, as something hid in Himself or hid in God Eph 3:9

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Col 3:3

3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

The Eternal Justification of all of God's Elect has always been a hidden Truth, hidden with Christ in God. Its that Justification of life Paul speaks of in Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

There comes a time when these hidden Mysteries in God, that are for us, that the Spirit of God makes them known, that we may know experientially those things Freely given us of God as stated 1 Cor 2:12

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Thats important because one of the things we have freely of God, is Justification in Christ by His Grace and Redemptive Work Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Which Work originated in the Eternal Engagements of the Everlasting Covenant, when Christ became the Surety by the imputation of our sins unto His Suretyship, so that in a time appointed by God, He would e made of a woman, made under the Law, and be sacrificed for those sins already imputed !

beloved57
October 13th, 2012, 09:04 PM
There is a Justification in the mind of the believer which doth occur in time, and is what the scripture calls Justified by Faith Rom 5:1 , but there is another Justification which is before time and even from eternity Ps 103:17, and that is the Elects Justification in the Mind of God ! Eternal Justification rests upon what is an Eternal Act in God's Mind and not what is a revealed fact of the Mind of God in the mind of the Justified ones ! The Elect are Justified by God from Eternity by the Eternal act of the Decree of God, and by the Eternal Arrangement of the Everlasting Covenant between the Father and the Son and The Spirit Witnessed, these are God's Acts; That is His Decree's are His Acts of Old Pd 93:2

Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.

His entering Covenant with His Son is His acts; and all acts of His are foundational in His Being as the Eternal God, where time as we know it,past , present and future, are all One in His Mind !

beloved57
October 15th, 2012, 07:41 AM
Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Many false teachers try there best to destroy the Truth of this verse that John was inspired to write, and that is that Christ the Lamb was actually slain from the foundation of the World !

Yes, I said actually which means actual or existing fact !

He was actually slain from the foundation of the World by God's Decree and Purpose, which makes it an Actual Existing Fact in the Mind of God. John here is revealing to us the Mind of God on this matter !

And with that, this verse speaks to the Truthfulness of the Eternal Justification of all God's Elect in His Mind, Purpose and Decree from the foundation of the World, Yes for all them that Christ did come and die for in time, they were already Justified by the Purpose of God before Time Began. This is so much so, that in the Purpose, Decree, and Mind of God they were already Saved 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Or it can read "Who hath saved or Justified us according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began"

Paul states the same here Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

That is, Freely Justified by that Grace which was Given Us in Christ Jesus before the World Began !

This is a Gospel Truth, for Paul Just stated in Vs 8 2 Tim 1:8-10

8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;


Which Gospel Truth He Proclaims in Vs 9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

The Gospel is that Testimony of that Eternal Grace Given in Christ, which we are Justified by, before the World began.

Paul said the same also here Acts 20:24

24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

This Testimony of the Gospel of the Grace of God refers to 2 Tim 1:8-9 which enlightens of the Church's Eternal Justification by the Grace of God , premised on the Covenant Engagement of Christ being Slain for their Sins !

And to omit this Truth of the Gospel of the Grace of God is to consequently Preach No Gospel. Yes, Eternal Justification of the Church is a GOSPEL TRUTH,m and I just proved it with scripture !

beloved57
October 15th, 2012, 04:27 PM
Christ's Death for the Elect was an Eternal Offering, given through the Eternal Spirit Heb 9:14

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

It the Death or Offering of Christ was from a Human perspective offered in time, but ordained before time for its objects 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, The Church or the Elect of God 1 Pet 1:2, They would also be the foreknown of God Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Rom 11:2

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

All those that would believe in God by Him 1 Pet 1:20-21

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.


And it's Meritorious Effects, His Death, are from Everlasting to Everlasting. The Effects of it had Eternal Influences on all that are Justified it from Pre Cross to Post Cross, and by it they all had been sanctified and perfected forever !

dreadknought
October 15th, 2012, 06:03 PM
B57, I do hope you have grasped @ faith. Your eternal life is predicated upon what God has provided to us for Himself........ in created time.

beloved57
October 15th, 2012, 06:09 PM
B57, I do hope you have grasped @ faith. Your eternal life is predicated upon what God has provided to us for Himself........ in created time.

Please rehearse over the points of posts 54 ,55 and tell me each point that is wrong ! Thanks.

beloved57
October 16th, 2012, 11:00 PM
2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

It cannot be plainer than this, That according to the Truth of the Everlasting Gospel, all the Elect of God were Saved, Justified, Given Grace in Christ before the World began, according to His OWN Purpose !

What is this Purpose ? First the scripture says according to HIS OWN PURPOSE, Pertaining to Himself, so this purpose takes place first and foremost within God's ownself ! Also the word purpose means here determination and the idea of decree is associated with this set purpose or determination.

Its also the foundation of God's Predestination as in Eph 1:11

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

In Justification, this Eternal Purpose or Decree, this Determination within God Himself, God never appointed the Elect to Wrath, but to obtain Salvation ! So consequently within the Eternal Decree or Purpose of God the Elect were Justified from all sin before the World Began ! They were saved by the Purpose and Grace of God before the World Began, which is the foundation for their Call and Faith and Justification in Time Rom 8:28-29

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

According to this Eternal Purpose God did Justify them before Himself by Non Imputation Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

This Justification by God of the Elect had nothing to do with their faith in time, but His Purpose Given them before Time ! 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

TruthSetsFree
October 17th, 2012, 09:49 AM
a person CAN lose salvation

u r spouting off a doctrine held and first propogated by LUTHER

aka HUMAN

(not to mention that i feel he was totally possessed)

If you keep teaching people that thye can sin all they want and not lose salvation (i am speaking of mortal sin only)

u r leading peole into error and SIN (the wages of which is.. What???)

and ultimately into Hell...

beloved57
October 17th, 2012, 09:50 AM
a person CAN lose salvation

u r spouting off a doctrine held and first propogated by LUTHER

aka HUMAN

(not to mention that i feel he was totally possessed)

If you keep teaching people that thye can sin all they want and not lose salvation (i am speaking of mortal sin only)

u r leading peole into error and SIN (the wages of which is.. What???)

and ultimately into Hell...

Yeah Yeah Yeah, Why not debate or deal with the scripture points of post 58 ?

TruthSetsFree
October 17th, 2012, 09:52 AM
Yeah Yeah Yeah, Why not debate or deal with the scripture points of post 58 ?

Yeah Yeah Yeah, Why not debate or deal with the scripture points of... the Bible

beloved57
October 17th, 2012, 09:57 AM
Yeah Yeah Yeah, Why not debate or deal with the scripture points of... the Bible

Yeah Yeah Yeah, Why not debate or deal with the scripture points of post 58 ?

beloved57
October 19th, 2012, 08:56 AM
In teaching the Justification of the Elect before Faith, even before the World Began, it is not a denial of the condemnation and guilt of Adam's sin their natural head, which condemnation the scripture teacheth here Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

That word condemnation is a very strong word ,it is the greek word katakrima and means:

damnatory sentence, condemnation

Its used twice more here Rom 5:16 and Rom 8:1

We do not deny this condemnation incurred by the Elect in their natural head Adam, however, God because of a previous Covenant Engagement before the World began, with the Surety of the Elect, God, instead of charging the Elect with that their condemnation Rom 5:18, instead had charged it upon Christ ! Yes, that damnatory sentence of Eternal Death was laid charge to Christ's Account due to the previous stipulations of the Everlasting Covenant.

You see, if that condemnation of the elect was not real, then there would have been no reason for Christ to have had their sins imputed to Him, and the Gospel fact is according to Paul 1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

If the damnatory sentence the Elect incurred was not real and factual, then Christ's Death would be null and void, because His Death was the consequence of their damnatory sentence laid to His Charge instead of theirs. In fact the word for in 1 Cor 15:3 is the greek prep hyper and means:


in behalf of, for the sake of

And so Christ died in behalf of our sins, that damnatory sentence we deserved to die for eternally, instead, Christ died in our behalf !

So the Justification of the Elect before Faith, is not because of condemnation was not merited by them, but because the merited condemnation Rom 5:18 was not laid to their charge 2 Cor 5:19; Rom 4:8 !

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

That blessed man is each one Christ died in behalf of !

beloved57
October 19th, 2012, 10:26 PM
To deny Eternal Justification of the Elect before God is a flat out denial of the Gospel, which Gospel is nothing short of Preaching the Everlasting and New Covenant, and the denial lies in this:

Its a denial of the purpose and agreement and Surety-Ship of Christ before the beginning of the World, which is the whole foundation of Eternal Justification of the Chosen in Christ before God Eph 1:4. It also denies God's Eternal act of setting apart or sanctification of the Elect which Jude alludes to here Jude 1:1

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Now for Jude to write this statement in the opening of a letter that is regarding our common Salvation and The Faith delivered unto the Saints vs 3

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Then it is feasible that they have heard the blessed Truth before i in the Gospel of being in the Eternal Decree of the Father Sanctified or set apart, that would be in their Eternal Election Eph 1:3-4 !

This setting apart of the Father from Election in Christ does ensure, make certain the application of Christ's Righteousness in Time by New Birth, this Eternal Act is the very substance of Eternal Justification, deny this, you become an Enemy of the Gospel !

beloved57
October 22nd, 2012, 07:02 PM
Eternal Justification is a act of Justification before God, an Eternal Act of God, whereby He does not impute sin upon all for whom Christ will die, hence, discharging them from all guilt and condemnation solely premised upon Christ's Promise to Perform the Covenant obligations for them in Time !

So, before the Mind of God, The Performance of dying for the sins of the Elect was performed, by Promise Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Thats why even from the beginning of His Public Ministry, The Father's Testimony of Him was this Matt 3:17

And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Thats because of His Promised Covenant Engagement which did culminate in His Death !

The Father was no more Pleased for the accomplishment of Christ's sacrifice after His Death as He was before it and even when He Covenanted it before the World began !

beloved57
October 23rd, 2012, 08:18 AM
The contractual agreement between the Father and the Son, the covenant of peace, this agreement forbade the Father to charge His Elect with condemnation and sin upon their transgressing in Time, yes they would sin indeed in Adam, but because of the Everlasting Covenant, their condemnation for their sin could not be laid to their charge, simply because the agreement was , when they sin and became indebted to God's Law and Justice, that the charge would not be imputed to them, but to Christ their Surety, leaving them therefore Justified from all sin by non imputation Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

The elect were discharged based upon the Promise of the Surety to in time, the fullness of time to be exact, to die for their sins !

The Father could only [covenant agreement] look for payment for their sins from the death of Christ vs 34

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Christ was even before His Incarnation on the Right Hand of God as their Surety, that is the Glory He had with the Father before the World Began Jn 17:5

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

beloved57
October 24th, 2012, 07:23 AM
Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

This scripture is very clear as to who Justifies, it is God's act first and foremost, and it was conceived in His Mind from Eternity , and when that act is finally terminated on the elect sinners conscious, it is Justification by Faith Rom 5:1. However , for it to ever come to be Justification by Faith in time, it had to be conceived first as Justification from Eternity by Him that conceived it originally ! God never laid to charge to the Elect, their condemnation due to their sin, that began their Justification before Him in Eternity !

beloved57
November 8th, 2012, 09:53 AM
Ps 50:21

21 These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.

Evil men, with corrupt minds, do blaspheme God, and think of God as one like himself, when in our thinking, they join what God has seperated in point and time, and that more specifically being His Eternal Justification of the Elect in His own Mind in Christ, due to His own innate Purpose within Himself, and then the declaring the Elect Justified in their own conscience in time. This is an willful confounding of Eternity with time, the Eternal with the temporal, the Creator with the creature.

For God in His Own Eternal Purpose, He did act immanently, Justifying the Elect in Christ within His Own Counsel from Everlasting, so from Everlasting He is their God Ps 90:1-2

Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.

Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God[In Covenant].

Thats why it is written of His Mercy Ps 103:17

17 But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

But this is different and opposed to when He would Justify them in their own persons and hearts in time.

If God does not in His own Mind consider the Elect Justified from Eternity by His Own immanent act, but not until the Elect in their own mind in time are Justified by God given Faith [The Faith of God's Elect Titus 1:1-2], then this would speak of an mutability in God, a Change from what His Mind was in Eternity towards His Elect, which would make God out to be as one of His creatures, and Eternity is governed by time. This is Blasphemy against God, and unless repentance is granted , those teaching such and believing such shall not go unpunished in Hell !

And everyone who disbelieves in the Eternal Justification of God's Elect are in serious peril of damnation !

beloved57
February 1st, 2013, 05:24 AM
2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Why this world of 2 Cor 5:19 was Eternally Justified in the Mind of God. It was because it resteth upon God's Eternal Purpose and Decree NOT to impute to it its sins, its transgressions against His Law.

There in God's Eternal Purpose of Election in Christ, there was from Everlasting an Immutable Decree and Will in God, not to punish sin, not to Eternally penalize and punish His Elect for their Transgressions against His Law both in Adam and themselves. Ps 103:12,17

He purposed before the World began, that He was not going to Punish them in a Way of Justice as He would others of the Non Elect World 1 Thess 5:9

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath[As others like Rom 9:22], but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

But He purposed from everlasting to deal with them in Mercy [as Per Rom 9:23] through their Righteous Mediator and Surety, so the Mercy of the LORD to them was from Everlasting to Everlasting Ps 103:17, that is to as many as were Chosen in Him Eph 1:4.

God also with this World 2 Cor 5:19, did bestow from Eternity [By Promise] Eternal Life to this Chosen World in Christ Eph 1:4, through the Blood of the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20; Matt 26:28, this was determined before the World Began Rev 13:8 and 1 Pet 1:20 !

Princely
February 1st, 2013, 09:18 PM
No one can come top me unless the Lord who sent me draws him.


The Lord says this; Listen Israel, Jacob, you who are my servant. I formed you to be a servant to me. I am the Lord your God, the one who stirs up the sea till its waves roar, the Lord of Host by name. I have put my words into your mouth and shielded you with the shadow of my hand."

"Don't my words promise good to those who walk uprightly? Do what is right and just.

"If you repent so that I restore you, you shall stand in my presence. If you bring forth the precious and not the vile you will be my mouthpiece. Then it will be they who turn to you and not you yo them and I will make you like a solid wall of brass to this people. They will fight against you but they will not prevail for I am with you to deliver you. I shall rescue you from the grasp of the wicked and keep you from the hand of the violent."

If only you recognized God’s gift, and who it is that’s speaking to you, you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.

Anyone who drinks the water I give him will never become thirsty the water I give him shall be like a well inside him rising up to provide eternal life.

beloved57
February 1st, 2013, 10:37 PM
prince


If only you recognized God’s gift, and who it is that’s speaking to you, you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.

Do you understand the point i made in post 69 ?

Princely
February 1st, 2013, 11:54 PM
prince



Do you understand the point i made in post 69 ?

I know the Lord and I keep His word. You misunderstand scripture and the power of the Lord.

No one can come to me unless drawn by the Lord who sent me and I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the prophets, "And they shall all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Lord comes to me.

Everyone that the Lord gives me will come to me, and anyone who comes to me I will never reject because I did not come down from heaven to do my own will but the will of the Lord who sent me.

beloved57
February 4th, 2013, 12:00 PM
Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Why was Christ said to be slain from or before the foundation ? See also 1 Pet 1:20.

The reason being is because the Father did in His Eternal Purpose had already Judicially determined to impute or Charge all the sins of His Own People on their Surety, the Lord Jesus Christ, He being their Surety and Mediator before the World Began, and also they [God's Own Elect] did in the same manner receive His Righteousness by Imputation. What this tells us, in that Christ in the Eternal Purpose being slain from the foundation, that also in that Divine Purpose He received by Imputation, the wages of sin [death] for all those He would die for in time, namely His Sheep !

Though Christ did not experientially receive death for their sins before the world began, He did receive it within the Divine Purpose imputatively by the Godhead, and actually in time in 33 ad, at this time this Eternal Judgment was manifested. So before the World began, the Godhead, particularly the Father, the Spirit as an Witness, did Judicially impute the sins of the Elect, the Sheep, onto the Son, their Existing Mediator, and Surety ! Yes they were also Justified before God because of this Eternal Purpose to impute sin on Christ !

beloved57
April 27th, 2013, 03:48 AM
Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs[experimentally by New Birth] according to the hope of eternal life.

This verse is packed with Divine Truth, but we will focus on the fact that believers in Christ, were Justified by Grace, before they believed and before the world began .

Yes, a True Believer in time, was Justified before God before the world began by that Grace which was given them then in Christ Jesus according to the Divine Purpose. 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Now according to this scripture testimony, when was Grace given the Believer ? And it was by this Grace they were Justified Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

To deny this is to deny the Gospel of God's Grace , simple as that !

beloved57
April 27th, 2013, 03:34 PM
Justification from Eternity is True of all whom Christ died, because it was from Eternity/Everlasting that He Covenanted with The Father and became their Surety, and such, He became at that instance totally responsible before God's Law and Justice for their transgressions which is imputation, which legally acquitted them before Him, and counted as blameless and Holy before Him in Love ! Eph 1:3-4

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

It was not yet before them, but it was before God, and it ensured that God would make them that way in their lives !

beloved57
April 29th, 2013, 07:00 PM
The Elect, have always, before they believed, or even before they were born sinners, they have always been free from condemnation, solely premised on the Death of Christ, as far as God was concerned, He was slain for their sins before the foundation ! Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain[In Purpose] from the foundation of the world.

1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

God at no time charged them with their sins 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So this World has always been free from condemnation, free from the Law. Thats the only way they could not have sins imputed to them, they would have to be free from the Law !

Rom 7:3-4

3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ[His Death]; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

TruthSetsFree
April 30th, 2013, 01:56 PM
Ps 103:17

17But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

I do not think it will be argued that Justification by Faith is a very great mercy to experience in this life. le.


as you will kindly note by reading the REST OF THE BIBLE

God has mercy on those who FEAR HIM

meaning

those who FEAR to offend His Absolute Holiness through egregious sin

beloved57
April 30th, 2013, 03:00 PM
tsf


God has mercy on those who FEAR HIM

I already went over that in the OP and Post 2 of this thread. Please rehearse with me those points of thoses posts, instead of evading them !

TruthSetsFree
May 1st, 2013, 10:14 AM
tsf



I already went over that in the OP and Post 2 of this thread. Please rehearse with me those points of thoses posts, instead of evading them !

you went over something?

who are you?

a priest?

a pope?

i don't know u from Fido down the street...

I don't get my Bible interpretations from just anyone

and it is the height of absurdity to believe that sin was sin in the Old Testament days but nowadays we can sin all we want and it doesn't matter and we will still go to Heaven

SOOOOOOOOOOOOO illogical!!!!!

there is NO

ZERO

ZILCH

sin or dirty effects of... residual from... sin in Heaven

Revelation about Heaven: It is "where no impure thing will enter"

beloved57
May 21st, 2013, 05:18 AM
The Elect are Justified before God from Everlasting simply because they are God's Elect. Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

All of God's Elect in all generations, God does not charge them with their sins.

All the Elect were free of condemnation before God from everlasting based upon what Christ would accomplish for them in time upon the Cross, and so nothing can ever be laid to their charge, hence that constitutes them to [before God legally] in a state of Justification.

beloved57
May 30th, 2013, 06:22 AM
By the mere fact that one is God's Elect, that alone, apart from any other consideration, means they are Eternally Justified before Him, from Eternity, hence Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

There are none that can lay any charge to God's Elect, in fact, because of Christ, they cannot even from God Himself be under any condemnation.

Now what is the criteria for this ? Is it because of their faith or believing, what about their repenting, or water baptism, or maybe their accepting a gift offered, or because they called upon the name of the Lord ?, No, its not judged based any of those things, but upon the sole fact that it is Christ that died or who shall die, when speaking of it from God's Eternal Perspective into time.

Because it is He that has died and risen again [for their Justification Rom 4:25], and who is now at the Right Hand of God making intercession for them, not for all the world of mankind, but for them , God's Elect of Rom 8:33.

And again, by the mere fact that it is God who Justifieth, its an Eternal Act in His Eternal Mind, for He is Eternal and so must be His reckoning something to be Ps 33:11

The counsel of the Lord standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.

The thoughts of God's Heart are founded in Eternity and from Eternity, and so it is of His Reckoning or accounting something to be Rom 4:17

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

God's calling or naming something to be in His Mind is an Eternal Act that is not bound by Time, its outside of Time.

Now some may argue, from what were they Justified if Justified from everlasting ? Answer, from their sins and condemnation they were incur from their sins against God's Law that shall commit to begin in Adam, and to follow in their own Persons as they are born sinners and by nature children of wrath even as others Eph 2:3, and from this they were Eternally Justified for it is God that Justifieth !

TruthSetsFree
June 5th, 2013, 07:37 PM
[INDENT]Ps 103:17

17But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

I do not think it will be argued that Justification by Faith is a very great mercy to experience in this life. This mercy was not just random or by chance , or by freewill, but was established as a sure mercy from everlasting. God, the everlasting God, Preached the gospel of Justification to Abraham centuries ago Gal 3:8

[]

if a person commits a mortal sin, and then repents, he is forgiven by God

but there are consequences to his soul from every mortal sin (and to some extent venial sins also)

it would be like... committing adultery and then expecting your marriage to be exactly as it was b4 the adultery

unrealistic... There are consequences to every sinful act we commit...

and i am not just speaking of how relationshiops are affected, as in the above example

i am speaking of one's relationship with God... we "divorce" oursleves from Him through mortal sin...

we are restored to Him through the sacrament of Reconciliation (confession) and doing good and holy things in order to "undo" the bad effects of the sin

Princely
June 5th, 2013, 08:30 PM
[INDENT]Ps 103:17

17But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;



"But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;"

A great verse but sinners cannot see the secrets of the Lord. God will not allow them because they reject the One whom He has sent.

You will not see the light until you say, "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord."

beloved57
June 5th, 2013, 10:20 PM
prince


But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;"

I just quoted that !

Epoisses
June 6th, 2013, 12:11 AM
The Elect are Justified before God from Everlasting simply because they are God's Elect. Rom 8:33-34

Wrong! The elect are those who abhor sin and repent of their evil lives. They are filled with the Holy Spirit and reflect Christ's image. God simply knows who they are before they were born. The Calvinist gospel leads to cheap grace and saved in sin.

beloved57
June 6th, 2013, 06:08 AM
epo


Wrong!

Right ! Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Epoisses
June 6th, 2013, 08:03 AM
epo



Right ! Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Are you a Calvinist or of some other extreme variety?

beloved57
June 6th, 2013, 08:43 AM
Are you a Calvinist or of some other extreme variety?

Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Epoisses
June 6th, 2013, 11:16 AM
No Calvinist will claim you as one of their own. You're a Calvinist wannabe.

beloved57
June 6th, 2013, 11:40 AM
No Calvinist will claim you as one of their own. You're a Calvinist wannabe.

Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Princely
June 6th, 2013, 10:12 PM
prince



I just quoted that !

But you do not hear it fully because you think as a man and not as the son of man.

"No one knows the son except the Father and no one knows the Father except the son and whoever the sons wishes reveal Him.

"If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels."

Is He ashamed of you for following Paul and not the One He sent?

Indeed.

The son of man comes eating and drinking.

I come eating and drinking and you fail to accept me but let someone come in His own name and Him you will accept.

How can you believe when you will not come to me to have life.

beloved57
June 20th, 2013, 10:28 PM
The Gospel teaches Justification in Eternity by the will / decree of God the Father; Yes before all worlds or ages commenced, the Elect or God's Chosen, their Justification was an established fact by the Purpose of God. In the Mind and Purpose of God, all His Elect were Justified from Everlasting. This Justification was finished by God's Sovereign Purpose of Grace in Eternal Election and Predestination before the foundation, and this is a matter of biblical fact and revelation Rom 8:30

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

The Justification of God's People did not start in time, but before the ages. Paul here in this Passage declares all the Elect of God, the foreknown were Justified in the Eternal Purpose of Grace, as well as in 2Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

This Justification of God's Elect from Eternity is an Eternal act of God's Grace, hence Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

They were Justified by His Grace before being made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. This is in conjunction with Grace given in Christ before the ages commenced 2 Tim 1:9

9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,ESV.

beloved57
June 21st, 2013, 06:52 AM
You see, in the Mind and Purpose of God, Christ is the Lamb of God already slain from the foundation of the world Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Hence, that is why Prophets Like Isaiah could prophesy of His Death as if it had already occurred for the many Isa 53:6-12


6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10
when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

It was before the ages began that in the Eternal Purpose of God Christ was set up, constituted as Surety Representative and Redeemer, and Substitute, hence Peter did write of His Redeeming Blood 1 Pet 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Christ before the the foundation was appointed to be the sacrificial lamb for the sins of His People,to be a propitiation for the sins of God's People Heb 2:17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

John Gill writes :


for all God's decrees and appointments, relating either to Christ, or his people, are eternal; no new thoughts, counsels, and resolutions, are taken up by him in time. The affair of redemption by Christ is no new thing; the scheme of it was drawn in eternity; the persons to be redeemed were fixed on; the Redeemer was appointed in the council and covenant of peace; and even the very Gospel which proclaims it was ordained before the world, for our glory.

The writer of Hebrews states that He was made a Surety of a Better Covenant Heb 7:22

22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

This we believe to be what Peter writes of in 1 Pet 1:20 when He was foreknown or predestined for Redemption Vs 18-19.

And because of this God viewed Christ in His Own Eternal Perspective as having been already slain for the sins of His People from Everlasting Rev 13:8. This should be Preached in the Everlasting Gospel Rev 14:6

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

beloved57
June 21st, 2013, 09:37 AM
Why its [Justification before God by the Divine Purpose] a done deal by His Purpose in and of itself. That by it He viewed the slaying of Christ for the sins of His People as a done deal.

It typed and pictured to how Abraham did in purpose sacrifice his beloved son [Isaac] in purpose/intent of his heart Gen 22:12

12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

In Purpose and intent Isaac was just as good as dead to Abraham, he had thoughts of God bringing him back from the dead Heb 11:19

19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

So Christ in God's Purpose being sacrificed Rev 13:8 made those He was sacrificed in behalf of Justified and accepted in the Beloved before the world began.

beloved57
July 20th, 2013, 03:16 PM
In the Eternal Justification of God's Elect, it lies in this, there has been from everlasting [Ps103:17] the immutable counsel of God, that He would not Impute Sin, nor Punish sin, nor bring under condemnation of His Law, hence in this lies their Justification om everlasting Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

This being True Paul could to Chosen ones of 1 Thess 5:9

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Or it can read :He did not decree us to be subject to wrath! Like He did the Vessels of wrath Rom 9:22

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

That word fitted is the greek word katartizō:

to render, i.e. to fit, sound, complete

a) to mend (what has been broken or rent), to repair

1) to complete

b) to fit out, equip, put in order, arrange, adjust

1) to fit or frame for one's self, prepare

c) ethically: to strengthen, perfect, complete, make one what he ought to be

Which has a very similar definition as the word appointed in 1 Thess 5:9 which is the greek word tithémi:



I put, place, lay, set, fix, establish.

And these are Eternal Decisions Made by God in His Eternal Purpose before the world began.

They were not appointed to wrath because God had appointed in their place and stead, their Surety Shepherd to wrath 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

20 It is true that He was chosen and foreordained (destined and foreknown for it) before the foundation of the world, but He was brought out to public view (made manifest) in these last days (at the end of the times) for the sake of you.AMP

Our English word foreordain means also:

to ordain or appoint beforehand

Christ was appointed to wrath for the Sheep before the world began, which means they were not appointed to wrath.

They were instead appointed to obtain Salvation by Their Shepherd Jesus Christ.

The same Salvation Paul means here 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Notice also that its for the Elect, for they were never appointed to wrath but to Eternal Glory, as the Vessels of Mercy they were made. Rom 9:23

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
This Is Eternal Justification from sin before the world began !

beloved57
July 26th, 2013, 09:29 AM
As for Eternal Justification it is contemporaneous with Eternal Election. According to scripture when did Election appear in the Purpose and Mind of God ? It was before the foundation of the world, by His own Eternal Choice of them in Christ Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Now if its established hat God considered His Elect, by His Own Choice and Purpose as His Elect before the foundation, then by the simple fact of that alone, they being His Elect, they had nothing by Him laid to their Charge indicated here Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth

The word chosen in Eph 1:4 and Elect here in Rom 8:33 are the same word !

Now by them having nothing Charged against them by God, by that fact they are Justified as God's Elect,being such before the foundation of the World.

This makes them acquitted ad Justified from their sins before the foundation !

For it was Electing Grace that put them in Christ Rom 11:5

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace

And this Grace of Election was given them in the Divine Mind and Purpose before the World Began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

And so by that Grace were they Justified before the world began Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

How is it possible for them to have Grace given them y God in Christ Jesus that Early, and them not being Justified in His Mind and Purpose by Grace that Early ?

beloved57
July 31st, 2013, 04:31 AM
Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

This fact alone in and of itself is enough to declare all of God's Elect Justified by Him. Whenever the scripture mentions Justification, its restricted to His Elect Isa 45:25

25 In the Lord[Jesus Christ] shall all the seed of Israel[God's Elect] be justified, and shall glory.

Now, since when did God have the will to Justify His Elect ? It was conceived in the Mind of God from Everlasting not to impute or charge sin to those of His Elect. For that must be the case if it was anything of an Everlasting Covenant struck with His Son, on their behalf, and so we have that which is called in scripture " the Blood of the Everlasting Covenant " Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

This Covenant will be revealed to all who have a Covenant Interest in it, like David had it revealed to him 2 Sam 23:5

5 Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.

Which at least by the Divine Purpose, and according to this Covenant, Christ is the Lamb that had been slain from the foundation Rev 13:8; 1 Pet 1:20, and if so slain, He was slain in the Divine Purpose for the sins of His Elect imputed to Him. In the Divine Purpose Christ had already been made sin for the elect 2 Cor 5:21 that He may in the fulness of time actually be slain for in our time.

So if God purposed to impute their sins to Christ, then when did He not impute them to Him ? See Ps 33:11 And when did He impute their sins to them ?

By this purpose conceived in the Mind of God, not to impute sin to His Elect from everlasting would at the least account for them to be by Him Justified from all their sins [by non imputation] from Everlasting. Paul preached of some being Justified from all things Acts 13:39

39 And by him all that believe[B] are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Justified here means to be cleared, absolved ,freed from every charge against them before God's Law and Justice, which could not have been done by the code of moses and the Levitical Priesthood.

So you see here in Acts 13:39 to be justified more so of being set free from sin and it's guilt and penalty, from which the mosaic administration and ts priesthood could not do, however it was done by that once and for all oblation of Christ, and made it count for all whom He died, Justified from all things, as it pertaineth to the things of God and the People Heb 2:17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Again, this reconciliation or justification from all things, was restricted to the sins of the People of the Elect !

And God never charged them with their sins, but charged them to Christ, before the world began !

Now do not misunderstand, they were charged with sin, but those charges never were laid or imputed to them, but to Christ. The charges were real and Christ bore a real punishment for them.

beloved57
December 9th, 2013, 05:21 PM
Justification by Faith in Time is only possible and a reality because of Justification in Christ before time. This Justification is given them [Those Justified by Faith in Time] in Christ their Surety Head before the World Began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us [B]in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Paul refers to it as Justification by Grace here Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

When were they made Heirs specifically ? By their being Chosen in Christ, The Heir of the World before the foundation Eph 1:4


4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Heb 1:2

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;


Justification by Grace in Titus 3:7 has nothing to do with being Justified by Faith, that they should be made Heirs according to the Hope of Eternal Life, for it is an Eternal Act of God's Grace towards them in Christ, whereby Grace was given them in Him according to God's Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11 before the World Began. Now this Justification was not as of yet in their Own Persons and Consciences, but Christ being their Surety before the World Began.

Now when they sinned in the time state, by an act of Eternal Grace, God did transfer the guilt and condemnation incurred by them, from them and did impute or charge it to their Surety, who did receive them, and they received a discharge from them, which is Justification by Grace in Titus 3:7 and Rom 3:24. This is True because the Justification by Grace before the World Began, was based on the Surety's Covenant Engagement to be slain, to shed His Blood in Time 1 Pet 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

So according to this Purpose, its the Blood of the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Since the Suretyship was setup from Everlasting Prov 8:23

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

So both Rom 3:24 and Titus 3:7 refer to Eternal Justification in Christ in God's Perception and Sight before the foundation of the World, and this is a Gospel of God's Grace Truth Acts 20:24

24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

beloved57
December 13th, 2013, 11:24 PM
If No Justification from Eternity ? Then what ? Its impossible to be Justified by Faith in time Rpm 5:1, if we don't believe in Eternal Justification prior to ones believing. For Justification by Faith does receive Knowledge of having been Justified from eternity by the blood of the slain Lamb appointed and slain from the foundation 1 Pet 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

He was slain already for the sin of the Elect from God's Eternal Perspective. You see because God is Eternal, everything to Him is in the present because He is Outside of Time, Yet controls it. The Eternal God needed not the progression of time up to 33 ad to have rekoned Christ slain for the sins of the Many, before Him all whom He died for were eternally Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Sorry but we cannot bound God by the Laws of Time as we His creatures are. Eternal Justification is the Justifying of the Persons of the Elect before Him, not them, For the sentence begins with God, because it is written " It is God that Justifeth " Not faith Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Now who can tell me when God ever lay anything to the charge of God's Elect ?

beloved57
December 14th, 2013, 05:27 AM
If No Justification from Eternity ? Then what ? 2

The we have not been Justified by Faith, and our faith is in vain ! Now Justified by Faith in Time means that we by Faith receive the knowledge of what is already known by God; That is why Faith is stated here as Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

For Faith cannot be the substance and evidence of a thing that does not previously exist ! That which it is a evidence of must substantially exist before God ! Ones act of faith in time cannot actualize something to exsist and have substance before the Eternal God, that's nonsensical and insulting to the Eternal I AM ! Now what is it that is revealed to God given Faith ? Why its the very Righteousness of God via the Gospel Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Notice that it is revealed which means :

I.to uncover, lay open what has been veiled or covered up

II.to make known, make manifest, disclose what before was unknown

It makes known to those Justified by Christ's Work and own Righteousness to them that have it charged to them from Everlasting. Dan 9:24

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Its Everlasting because it has no beginning or ending before the Law and Justice of God, Its an Eternal Righteousness all whom had been Chosen in Christ had to their credit before the world began !

Some deem it the "or "the righteousness of ages" , of ages past; Or it can be, bring in Everlasting Justification. Now this is what is revealed in the Gospel ! So how can one deny Eternal Justification before God based on the Merits of Christ's Righteousness and have the Faith of God's Elect ? Its impossible !

beloved57
December 16th, 2013, 06:38 AM
All those who are Justified by His Blood as Per Rom 5:9

Much more then, being now justified by or in his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

All as such have been Justified before God from Eternity, because Christ being slain and redeeming them by His Blood as per Rev 5:9

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

This was in the Mind of God from Everlasting, as if had already been done Rom 4:17

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not[as yet in time] as though they were [already accomplished]

For instance, He called Abraham the Father of Many Nations, when he was not !

Therefore it stands to sanctified reason, all for whom He died, was already Justified by His Blood as Early as the Eternal Mind could conceive of it.

Nanja
December 16th, 2013, 09:05 AM
beloved57

Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

This was in the Mind of God from Everlasting, as if had already been done Rom 4:17

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not[as yet in time] as though they were [already accomplished]

For instance, He called Abraham the Father of Many Nations, when he was not !

Therefore it stands to sanctified reason, all for whom He died, was already Justified by His Blood as Early as the Eternal Mind could conceive of it.

Yes. Christ was the Redeemer of His Sheep before He ever was the Creator.

~~~~~

beloved57
December 16th, 2013, 09:56 AM
Yes. Christ was the Redeemer of His Sheep before He ever was the Creator.

~~~~~

Correct because the World was Created for a Redemptive Purpose in Christ. That's why the World was Created, so God could demonstrate His Grace towards His Church. Eph 3:8-11

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Eph 2:7

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

People think that Redemption was a secondary purpose of God, but it wasn't, it's primary , for in all things Christ has the Preeminence !

Nanja
December 16th, 2013, 04:26 PM
beloved57 That's why the World was Created, so God could demonstrate His Grace towards His Church.

What an amazing, wonderful truth!

Christ loved His Church and gave Himself for it (Eph. 5:25).

Psalm 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is Yehovah;
and the people whom He hath chosen for His own inheritance.

This nation consists of all of the Election of Grace (Rom. 11:5).
They are the Israel of God (Psalm 22:23, 28:9);
the Chosen People (Eph. 1:4); the Chosen Seed (Isaiah 44:3, 53:10); etc.

All was according to God's Eternal Purpose in Christ, to redeem His Body, the Church He So Loved!



beloved57 People think that Redemption was a secondary purpose of God, but it wasn't, it's primary , for in all things Christ has the Preeminence !


Amen!

~~~~~

beloved57
December 16th, 2013, 04:38 PM
nanja


This nation consists of all of the Election of Grace (Rom. 11:5).
They are the Israel of God (Psalm 22:23, 28:9);
the Chosen People (Eph. 1:4); the Chosen Seed (Isaiah 44:3, 53:10); etc.

Yes, and that's the World that was first in Adam as well, The Election of Grace !

Nanja
December 16th, 2013, 04:51 PM
beloved57
Yes, and that's the World that was first in Adam as well, The Election of Grace !



Yes!
~~~~~

beloved57
December 16th, 2013, 05:03 PM
Yes!
~~~~~

He federally represented the Godly Seed in the beginning when they were made One, He and Eve Mal 2:15

15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.

Therefore 2 Pet 2:9

9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

That's what He did for the Godly Seed that fell through temptation !

Nanja
December 16th, 2013, 06:22 PM
beloved57
He federally represented the Godly Seed in the beginning when they were made One, He and Eve Mal 2:15

15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.

Therefore 2 Pet 2:9

9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

That's what He did for the Godly Seed that fell through temptation !


That is because the Godly, the Election of Grace, are the Vessels of God's Mercy.

The non-elect God purposed to be vessels of His wrath.

Rom. 9:21-23 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour,
and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known,
endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory

~~~~~

Nang
December 16th, 2013, 06:57 PM
If Justification happened in eternity, then the Incarnation would have been unnecessary.

All things were ordained in eternity by decree, but God willed His decrees be manifested and accomplished in a created world and in proper time.

Justification happened historically on the cross of Christ, and is realized by the elect in their physical lifetimes.

Otherwise, all could have been accomplished by divine fiat, and Jesus and His church would have never experienced earthly life in the flesh.

beloved57
December 16th, 2013, 07:26 PM
nang


If Justification happened in eternity, then the Incarnation would have been unnecessary.

That's what it was based on, The Incarnation and Cross of Christ. In fact, that is what the whole Creation of the World was about, the Work of the Cross !

beloved57
December 16th, 2013, 07:31 PM
nang


Justification happened historically on the cross of Christ,

Yes Historically you are Right, but that's not when it happened with God. The Eternal God is outside of History in How He views things as Accomplished,His Purpose of something makes it a done deal before Him, but not before creatures of time like you and I .

For instance, what you will experience in the future 5 years from Now, is already a very present done deal before God !

beloved57
December 19th, 2013, 08:55 AM
The Eternal Justification of God's Elect is foundationed upon Christ's Eternal Suretyship, and we know He was an Surety of a better Covenant from here Heb 7:22

22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

The question is when did this take place ? I believe it reaches as far back as from Everlasting Micah 5:2

But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Ps 103:17

17 But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

John Gill writes of this verse :


By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. Or "covenant", for the word signifies both; and what is intended may be called both a testament and a covenant; a testament, because it is founded in the good will and pleasure of God, and respects an inheritance bequeathed by God the Father to his children, which was confirmed and comes to them by the death of Christ the testator; and a covenant, it being a compact or agreement made by the Father with Christ, as the representative of all the elect; in which promises and blessings of all sorts are provided and secured for them in him; and is called in Scripture a covenant of life and peace, because these are things concerned in it; and is commonly by men called the covenant of grace, because it springs from the grace of God, the subject matter of it is grace, and the end of it is the glory of God's grace: now this is better than the covenant of works broken by man, and which exposes him to the curse and condemnation of the law; or than the covenant of the Levitical priesthood, by which was no perfection; and the form of administration of it under the Gospel dispensation is better than that under the law, for it is now revealed more clearly, and administered without types, shadows, and sacrifices; and the extent of its administration is larger, reaching to Gentiles as well as Jews; and besides, it is now actually ratified and confirmed by the blood of Christ, which is therefore called the blood of the everlasting covenant: and of this testament or covenant Christ is the "surety"; the word signifies one that draws nigh: Christ drew nigh to his Father in the council of peace, and undertook to be the Saviour and Redeemer of his people he substituted himself in their place and stead; he interposed between the creditor and the debtor, and became surety for the payment of the debts of the latter, and so stood engaged for them, and in their room: Christ is not the surety for the Father to his people, but for them to the Father; as to satisfy for their sins, to work out a righteousness for them, to preserve and keep them, and make them happy; which is an instance of matchless love.

Now let us look at the word surety, its the word eggyos:

I.a surety, a sponsor

Now what is a sponser ? Its defined as:

a person who vouches or is responsible for a person or thing. or it can be in the plural as for persons !

I believe it was in the Everlasting Covenant, a Covenant formed by the Triune God before the World began, that the Son of God was made Surety of God's People of the Elect Heb 13:20, and in this Eternal Suretyship, the Sins and Condemnation of the Elect were agreed upon to be His responsibility to Satisfy all of their Violations of God's Law, and so, by this agreement, as far as God's Law and Justice was concerned, they were Justified from all their sins and free from any punishment due to them personally, but it would be meted out in the Person and Work of their Surety, and they were Justified from all sin then !

beloved57
March 21st, 2014, 10:32 PM
Just as important as the Elect's Justification before God by the death of Christ alone before any Gospel Obedience by the Justifed, just as true and factual was their Justification from the Punishment of their sins by Christ's Suretyship engagement for them in the Everlasting Covenant, when He was constituted their Surety from Everlasting Heb 7:22

22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Now even though He did not actually die in Eternity past, He did in Eternity Past become responsible for our guilt,as Surety, hence their punishment due to them was due unto Him instead of them because of Surety Responsibility. This Eternal Surety was based upon what He would do in for them enduring their wrath and punishement, after having been made of a women and under the Law Gal 4:4-5

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Since His Death of Redemption was appointed for the before the foundation 1 Pet 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

20 It is true that He was chosen and foreordained (destined and foreknown for it) before the foundation of the world, but He was brought out to public view (made manifest) in these last days (at the end of the times) for the sake of you.AMP

So this being True, so did they have Justification before God's Law and Justice from the Punishment of their sins before the foundation of the world !

beloved57
May 5th, 2014, 09:31 AM
Denying Eternal Justification is quite serious in that it disregards God as a Judge, also it disregards what is from scripture, an obvious Judgment of God from before the foundation, this we know from scriptures like Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain[In Eternal Purpose Eph 3:11] from the foundation of the world.

1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Foreordained for what Purpose ? 1 Pet 1:18-19

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Foreordained for certain foreknown Elect Individuals 1 Pet 1:2 to be redeemed by the Precious blood of the Lamb, which was slain from the foundation Rev 13:8 !

Now by this it is very clear that God the Judge has already decided that the sins of the Elect foreknown should be laid on Christ, thus He should be slain for them and again raised for their Justification Rom 4:25, for this obviously He had already decided as Judge before all worlds.

Now when a case of a person has been thus decided for that individual, their Justification or condemnation, that official decision stands from the date thereof . Now when was the date of God's decision on redeeming His Elect by the Blood of Christ ? 1 Pet 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

He was manifest in time for specifically these 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Peter was very specific on this, for He wrote manifested FOR YOU !

Now this also means that God before the foundation had Judged and determined not to impute the transgressions of the elect upon them, but instead on Christ the Lamb for them, and by virtue of the Divine Reckoning, Christ was a slain Lamb from the foundation, slain for the sins of specific foreknown individuals, and these foreknown Individuals were recorded in the Lambs Book of Life Rev 13:8;17:8, and His coming to accomplish the Work Heb 10:7,9 ; Ps 40:6-8, and those whose names that had been written in the Book of Life, also had imputed to them, based upon the coming of Christ for them, Justification of Life, so if their Names were written in the Lambs Book of Life before the foundation, then also was God's Judging them to Justification of Life ! Denying this is very serious and anti gospel !

beloved57
November 28th, 2014, 11:17 PM
Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

When Preaching about Christ died for our sins 1 Cor 15:3 we cannot shun the whole counsel of it. 1 Cor 15:3 is only part of a whole, with many more sublime Truths accompanying it, such as He being slain from or before the foundation of the World ! Now because of this, those Christ died for as the Lamb slain before the foundation, they never had their sins and condemnation, which He was slain for, charged directly on them, which fact means their Justification from them and its condemnation. In the Eternal Purpose of Christ Jesus Eph 3:11

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

God had predetermined / decreed that Christ should be charged with and die for their sins and condemnation, even though He had not actually died until in Time at the Cross in the fulness of time.

When those who had been chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4, He also before the foundation received with them their liability/ and Suretyship, for their sins and condemnation in the Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus, again though He did not die before the foundation,He did receive the sentence of Death for their sins before the foundation, to be carried out at an Hour set in Time, and in fact that was the foundation for His Incarnation Heb 10:5-10,14

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

beloved57
November 29th, 2014, 04:41 PM
Jn 6:38

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Jesus here makes it plain as to why He came down from Heaven, it was to do His Father's and God will, the same will in Heb 10:7,9-10

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This lets us know that before He came down from heaven, He knew it had to do with His previous Suretyship engagement, to be an Offering for sin Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Thats the Offering in Heb 10:10,14 ! So all the time before His coming into the world, the sins of those He was charged with, were never charged to them, a whole World of men 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Those whom Christ had been charged with their sins,they never legally by God, had them charged to them, which makes them even before the Incarnation, legally Justified, Acquitted from them, and the condemnation of them, even too, when they are dead in trespasses and sins they are Acquitted before God of all sin ! All this is True from the fact that In the Eternal Purpose of Christ, before the foundation, He was already slain by Eternal Decree, which means that God had already determined that Christ should die in their stead for their sin and condemnation, making them free from all condemnation !

Nanja
November 29th, 2014, 05:02 PM
Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

When Preaching about Christ died for our sins 1 Cor 15:3 we cannot shun the whole counsel of it. 1 Cor 15:3 is only part of a whole, with many more sublime Truths accompanying it, such as He being slain from or before the foundation of the World ! Now because of this, those Christ died for as the Lamb slain before the foundation, they never had their sins and condemnation, which He was slain for, charged directly on them, which fact means their Justification from them and its condemnation. In the Eternal Purpose of Christ Jesus Eph 3:11

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

God had predetermined / decreed that Christ should be charged with and die for their sins and condemnation, even though He had not actually died until in Time at the Cross in the fulness of time.

When those who had been chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4, He also before the foundation received with them their liability/ and Suretyship, for their sins and condemnation in the Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus, again though He did not die before the foundation,He did receive the sentence of Death for their sins before the foundation, to be carried out at an Hour set in Time, and in fact that was the foundation for His Incarnation Heb 10:5-10,14

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


All those chosen in Christ to become the Sons of God Eph. 1:4; 2 Tim. 1:9
were eternally sanctified by the offering of Christ's Body as the Lamb Slain
before the foundation of the world, their Head and Surety, in the Purpose and Mind of God.
These comprise the same, and only ones; the specific People He shed His Blood for in 33 AD:
His Church Eph. 5:25; the Israel of God Is. 45:17.

So, the Body God prepared for Him points to His Body also in a mystical sense:
His Church He gave His Life for; they are one Body! Eph. 5:23-27

~~~~~

beloved57
November 29th, 2014, 06:07 PM
All those chosen in Christ to become the Sons of God Eph. 1:4; 2 Tim. 1:9
were eternally sanctified by the offering of Christ's Body as the Lamb Slain
before the foundation of the world, their Head and Surety, in the Purpose and Mind of God.
These comprise the same, and only ones; the specific People He shed His Blood for in 33 AD:
His Church Eph. 5:25; the Israel of God Is. 45:17.

So, the Body God prepared for Him points to His Body also in a mystical sense:
His Church He gave His Life for; they are one Body! Eph. 5:23-27

~~~~~

You made a very good point !

Nanja
November 29th, 2014, 06:32 PM
You made a very good point !


Thx... You are a blessing to me ! ☺

~~~~~

beloved57
November 29th, 2014, 07:45 PM
Thx... You are a blessing to me ! ☺

~~~~~

And you too !

beloved57
January 6th, 2015, 06:52 AM
All who were in Christ Chosen before the foundation Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Were also from the Divine Perspective, which Perspective is Preeminent/foremost above all else, they were before the foundation Justified from all things as stated of these Acts 13:39

And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

In the original that word by is the prep en the same as in Eph 1:4 " Chosen in en Him before the foundation "

Those believing therefore learn via the Gospel of their Justification from all things in Christ before the foundation, a Justification they could not have by the Law of Moses !

Now again, this is to be understood as a Justification they had before and without Faith or Believing in Christ, but due to the fact of the Divine Perspective that they had a Union with Christ [in Him] before the foundation.

The Truth of the Gospel is to be so explained that God from everlasting had Justified those Chosen in Christ, all the Elect, The Church of Christ, as He always saw them in His Beloved Eph 1:6

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

This Truth in Vs 6 " made accepted in the Beloved" is an Eternal act , not an temporal one, though the Truth of it is revealed to the Justified ones in Time !

This Justification was not because of any foreseen act of believing in the Justified sinner, for it was an fact before they were born, as they were viewed as the members of Christ's Body Ps 139:16

16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

Note: All my members were written" this alludes to Christ's members written in the Lambs Book of Life , written before the foundation Rev 13:8

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Rev 17:8

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

beloved57
February 20th, 2015, 05:56 AM
Did you know that all who are in time converted by the Gospel, which is a saving in and of itself, saved by the Power of the Gospel Rom 1:16

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation[conversion] to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:18,21

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved[converted] it is the power of God.

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Saved by the Spirits Renewing/Sanctification Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

2 Thess 2:13,14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel[The Power of God Rom 1:16], to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

These were already saved in te Purpose of God 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Now understand, In the Purpose of God, all for whom Christ would die for in Time @ the Cross of Calvery, to bare their sins in His own Body 1 Pet 2:24, they were already saved from their sins penalty incurred by Adam Rom 5:12 and with regard to their own personal sins Rom 5:16 and here the many offences comes from all the personal sins of those who at first sinned in their Federal and Natural head Adam, Adams sin was their inlet sin for the avalanche of sins they would commit upon physical birth;

Yet in the Purpose of God, they were Saved from, Justified from them by the Non Imputation of their sins unto them, and this blessing before the foundation is a vital branch of Eternal Salvation Heb 5:9, in that there was a world of people Chosen in Christ before the foundation, whom God would not charge or impute with their sins 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Truster
February 20th, 2015, 06:09 AM
Philipp Melanchthon disagrees with you in his article on original sin. THE AUGSBURG CONFESSION. A.D. 1530.

Also they teach that, after Adam's fall, all men begotten after the common course of nature are born with sin; that is, without the fear of God, without trust in him, and with fleshly appetite; and that this disease, or original fault, is truly sin, condemning and bringing eternal death now also upon all that are not born again by baptism and the Holy Spirit.

How can all men be born with sin if they have already been justified?

beloved57
February 20th, 2015, 07:31 AM
Philipp Melanchthon disagrees with you in his article on original sin. THE AUGSBURG CONFESSION. A.D. 1530.

Also they teach that, after Adam's fall, all men begotten after the common course of nature are born with sin; that is, without the fear of God, without trust in him, and with fleshly appetite; and that this disease, or original fault, is truly sin, condemning and bringing eternal death now also upon all that are not born again by baptism and the Holy Spirit.

How can all men be born with sin if they have already been justified?

Evasion and Rabbit Trail comments !

Truster
February 20th, 2015, 07:35 AM
Evasion and Rabbit Trail comments !

Evasion? Facts my boy, that you have chosen to ignore, because the fly directly in the face of your twisted doctrine.

beloved57
February 20th, 2015, 07:37 AM
Evasion? Facts my boy, that you have chosen to ignore, because the fly directly in the face of your twisted doctrine.

You don't believe the Gospel if you don't believe in Eternal Justification, in fact you don't believe in God if you don't !

Truster
February 20th, 2015, 07:45 AM
Why is it you state and continue to state that Tulip is the Evangel and yet you deny the teaching of J Calvin which states:THROUGH THE FALL AND REVOLT OF ADAM, THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE MADE ACCURSED AND DEGENERATE.

Truster
February 20th, 2015, 07:49 AM
You don't believe the Gospel if you don't believe in Eternal Justification, in fact you don't believe in God if you don't !

If justification were eternal then Adam should not and could not have fallen. Because according to your dogma he was already justified and the sentence of death was illegal. A justified man cannot be condemned.

Nanja
February 20th, 2015, 07:59 AM
Did you know that all who are in time converted by the Gospel, which is a saving in and of itself, saved by the Power of the Gospel Rom 1:16

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation[conversion] to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:18,21

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved[converted] it is the power of God.

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Saved by the Spirits Renewing/Sanctification Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

2 Thess 2:13,14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel[The Power of God Rom 1:16], to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

These were already saved in te Purpose of God 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Now understand, In the Purpose of God, all for whom Christ would die for in Time @ the Cross of Calvery, to bare their sins in His own Body 1 Pet 2:24, they were already saved from their sins penalty incurred by Adam Rom 5:12 and with regard to their own personal sins Rom 5:16 and here the many offences comes from all the personal sins of those who at first sinned in their Federal and Natural head Adam, Adams sin was their inlet sin for the avalanche of sins they would commit upon physical birth;

Yet in the Purpose of God, they were Saved from, Justified from them by the Non Imputation of their sins unto them, and this blessing before the foundation is a vital branch of Eternal Salvation Heb 5:9, in that there was a world of people Chosen in Christ before the foundation, whom God would not charge or impute with their sins 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


Thank God! It is a Chosen "Justified World".

In the Mind and Purpose of God, by the Lamb Slain before the foundation Rev. 13:8; 1 Pet. 1:19-20,
they were declared to be Righteous because they were Chosen In Christ before time.

So being that His Righteousness was imputed to them, they were declared holy and without blame
before Him in love, even before the foundation of the world Eph. 1:4.

~~~~~

Truster
February 20th, 2015, 08:08 AM
Thank God! It is a Chosen "Justified World".

In the Mind and Purpose of God, by the Lamb Slain before the foundation Rev. 13:8; 1 Pet. 1:19-20,
they were declared to be Righteous because they were Chosen In Christ before time.

So being that His Righteousness was imputed to them, they were declared holy and without blame
before Him in love, even before the foundation of the world Eph. 1:4.

~~~~~

So although you state that Calvin's Tulip is the gospel you believe he was wrong in his teaching on the application of redemption? for some reason....
Redemption was decreed before the foundation of the world, but must be applied to the elect, in time and on earth.

Nanja
February 20th, 2015, 08:45 AM
So although you state that Calvin's Tulip is the gospel you believe he was wrong in his teaching on the application of redemption? for some reason....
Redemption was decreed before the foundation of the world, but must be applied to the elect, in time and on earth.


No contradiction.

Christ was the Redeemer of the Election before He was the Creator.

Ps. 74:2 Remember thy congregation, which thou hast purchased of old;
the rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed; this mount Zion,
wherein thou hast dwelt.

Any Purchase of God is solely by the Blood of Christ.

The ones declared holy and without blame before the foundation of the world Eph. 1:4
are the same who will become Born of the Spirit in time when they hear the Gospel of their Salvation Eph. 1:13.

~~~~~

Truster
February 20th, 2015, 09:09 AM
No contradiction.

Christ was the Redeemer of the Election before He was the Creator.

Ps. 74:2 Remember thy congregation, which thou hast purchased of old;
the rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed; this mount Zion,
wherein thou hast dwelt.

Any Purchase of God is solely by the Blood of Christ.

The ones declared holy and without blame before the foundation of the world Eph. 1:4
are the same who will become Born of the Spirit in time when they hear the Gospel of their Salvation Eph. 1:13.

~~~~~

The very man whose works you call the gospel, which they are not. Denies your doctrine and you say there is no contradiction when there is flat denial.

beloved57
February 20th, 2015, 09:35 AM
If justification were eternal then Adam should not and could not have fallen. Because according to your dogma he was already justified and the sentence of death was illegal. A justified man cannot be condemned.

Thats one of the dead give aways that you are not a believer, you reject the Gospel Truth of Eternal Justification ! No one who rejects Eternal Justification is in a experimentally saved state ! For all intents and purposes they are in a lost and blinded state !

Truster
February 20th, 2015, 09:38 AM
Thats one of the dead give aways that you are not a believer, you reject the Gospel Truth of Eternal Justification ! No one who rejects Eternal Justification is in a experimentally saved state ! For all intents and purposes they are in a lost and blinded state !

I deserve eternal damnation.

Truster
February 20th, 2015, 09:39 AM
But you seem to think your dogma will save you.

Nang
February 20th, 2015, 09:55 AM
If justification were eternal then Adam should not and could not have fallen. Because according to your dogma he was already justified and the sentence of death was illegal. A justified man cannot be condemned.

Exactly correct.

B57 does not comprehend the corporeal necessity of the atonement being worked in flesh in the fullness of time.

The justification worked by Jesus on the cross was decreed in eternity, but was necessarily and willingly accomplished as a Man, through His bodily death and resurrection.

beloved57
February 20th, 2015, 09:58 AM
Yet in the Purpose of God, they were Saved from, Justified from them by the Non Imputation of their sins unto them, and this blessing before the foundation is a vital branch of Eternal Salvation Heb 5:9, in that there was a world of people Chosen in Christ before the foundation, whom God would not charge or impute with their sins 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The reason being, for non imputation of sin upon that world of people, God in His Eternal Purpose has already charged the condemnation of their sins to Christ [God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them]

Hence He was in the Purpose of God, the Lamb slain [for sins imputed] from the foundation Rev 13:8

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Appointed before the foundation 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

And so the Gospel Message is that of Non Imputation of Sin 2 Cor 5:18-19

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The question is when exactly was God in Christ reconciling the World to Himself, and not imputing their trespasses to them ? It was before the foundation in the Everlasting Covenant !

In John Gills excellent Paper on Eternal Justification, we read this:


. The everlasting transaction, the same excellent writer thinks, is imported in #2Co 5:19. "God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them". And the very learned Witsius {17} is of opinion, "that this act of God may be called, the general justification of the elect." And, indeed, since it was the determination of God, and the scheme and method he proposed to take in Christ for the reconciliation of the elect, not to impute their sins to them, but to his Son, their Surety; then seeing they are not imputed to them, but to him; and if reckoned and accounted to him, then not to them; and if charged to him, then they must be discharged from them, and so justified; and a non-imputation of sin to the elect, is no other than a justification of them; and thus the apostle strongly concludes the imputation of Christ's righteousness; which is the "formalis ratio", or the form of justification, from the non-imputation of sin, and the remission of it, #Ro 4:6-8.

http://www.mountzionpbc.org/Index/index04.htm

So the Non Imputation of sin is an Gospel Doctrine[2 Cor 5:19]is based upon Paul's Knowledge of the Eternal Purpose of God in Christ 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace[In the Everlasting Covenant], which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Truster
February 20th, 2015, 10:02 AM
Exactly correct.

B57 does not comprehend the corporeal necessity of the atonement being worked in flesh in the fullness of time.

The justification worked by Jesus on the cross was decreed in eternity, but was necessarily and willingly accomplished as a Man, through His bodily death and resurrection.

It has to be experienced to be understood, but he laughs at experiential spirituality. He's got his books you see Nang, but by the looks of things, he's torn out some pages to suit his dogma.

Nang
February 20th, 2015, 10:03 AM
None of the above fits your teaching of eternal justification, B57.

You are reading your views into scripture and various sound teachings; not comprehending that they are not in alignment with your presuppositions.

Truster
February 20th, 2015, 10:05 AM
Yet in the Purpose of God, they were Saved from, Justified from them by the Non Imputation of their sins unto them, and this blessing before the foundation is a vital branch of Eternal Salvation Heb 5:9, in that there was a world of people Chosen in Christ before the foundation, whom God would not charge or impute with their sins 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The reason being, for non imputation of sin upon that world of people, God in His Eternal Purpose has already charged the condemnation of their sins to Christ [God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them]

Hence He was in the Purpose of God, the Lamb slain [for sins imputed] from the foundation Rev 13:8

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Appointed before the foundation 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

And so the Gospel Message is that of Non Imputation of Sin 2 Cor 5:18-19

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The question is when exactly was God in Christ reconciling the World to Himself, and not imputing their trespasses to them ? It was before the foundation in the Everlasting Covenant !

In John Gills excellent Paper on Eternal Justification, we read this:



http://www.mountzionpbc.org/Index/index04.htm

So the Non Imputation of sin is an Gospel Doctrine[2 Cor 5:19]is based upon Paul's Knowledge of the Eternal Purpose of God in Christ 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace[In the Everlasting Covenant], which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

''Blessed is the man to whom Adonay does not no way account sin''.

This is scripture and the scripture is correct. Prior to regeneration however sin is accounted to the man and when the burden is lifted and sin is not longer put to his account that man knows the difference.

Nang
February 20th, 2015, 10:06 AM
It has to be experienced to be understood, but he laughs at experiential spirituality. He's got his books you see Nang, but by the looks of things, he's torn out some pages to suit his dogma.

I am a Clarkian, so I am not big on experientialism either, but I do not disagree with you in this instance.

Truster
February 20th, 2015, 10:09 AM
If justification prior to birth were correct Messiah would have contradicted Peter:

'When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus' knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord'

Did Messiah turn to Peter and say, no Peter you are justified?

Truster
February 20th, 2015, 10:10 AM
I am a Clarkian, so I am not big on experientialism either, but I do not disagree with you in this instance.

Is that anything to do with Clarkian Kentian?

Nang
February 20th, 2015, 10:23 AM
Is that anything to do with Clarkian Kentian?

:D

No.

I read a lot of Gordon H. Clark. See my sig.

Truster
February 20th, 2015, 10:39 AM
:D

No.

I read a lot of Gordon H. Clark. See my sig.

Have you come across this nonsense about justified from everlasting without the need for the application of redemption anywhere else Nang?
I know the puritans didn't teach it and I know Calvin didn't teach it. Which I find really strange because B37 says Tulip is the gospel and seeing as he worships Calvin I would have thought he just might have read some of his works.

beloved57
February 20th, 2015, 11:23 AM
''Blessed is the man to whom Adonay does not no way account sin''.

This is scripture and the scripture is correct. Prior to regeneration however sin is accounted to the man and when the burden is lifted and sin is not longer put to his account that man knows the difference.

Quoting a scripture is not believing the Gospel !

beloved57
February 20th, 2015, 11:25 AM
None of the above fits your teaching of eternal justification, B57.

You are reading your views into scripture and various sound teachings; not comprehending that they are not in alignment with your presuppositions.

Nang, that is why I have never considered you a believer in Christ ! To oppose Eternal Justification is to be a enemy against the Gospel !

Truster
February 20th, 2015, 11:25 AM
Quoting a scripture is not believing the Gospel !

I deserve to be cast into Hades and then the Lake of Fire.

Truster
February 20th, 2015, 11:29 AM
Quoting a scripture is not believing the Gospel !

You obviously don't understand the scope and effect of the scripture. Nowhere does it state, blessed is the man who is justified from everlasting.

beloved57
February 20th, 2015, 11:32 AM
You obviously don't understand the scope and effect of the scripture. Nowhere does it state, blessed is the man who is justified from everlasting.

I understand that you appear to be Apostate !

beloved57
February 20th, 2015, 11:33 AM
I deserve to be cast into Hades and then the Lake of Fire.

It looks like God is going to see to it that you get what you deserve !

Nang
February 20th, 2015, 11:35 AM
Have you come across this nonsense about justified from everlasting without the need for the application of redemption anywhere else Nang?
I know the puritans didn't teach it and I know Calvin didn't teach it. Which I find really strange because B37 says Tulip is the gospel and seeing as he worships Calvin I would have thought he just might have read some of his works.

Yes, I have read that belief in Eternal Justification is a mark of Hyper-Calvinism, but Calvin did not teach such.

beloved57
February 20th, 2015, 05:02 PM
Yes, I have read that belief in Eternal Justification is a mark of Hyper-Calvinism, but Calvin did not teach such.

Don't matter if he taught it or not, the scriptures teach it, and if you don't believe it, you don't believe the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ !

Bright Raven
February 20th, 2015, 05:13 PM
Don't matter if he taught it or not, the scriptures teach it, and if you don't believe it, you don't believe the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ !

:rotfl:

Nanja
February 20th, 2015, 06:14 PM
Don't matter if he taught it or not, the scriptures teach it, and if you don't believe it, you don't believe the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ


Amen!

~~~~~

beloved57
February 21st, 2015, 04:12 PM
This Non Imputation of sin within God's Purpose also includes full pardon or forgiveness of sins, Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

And so just as Non Imputation of sin here denotes sins forgiven, covered, so it does in 2 Cor 5:19 , the blessing of it is secured by Non imputation, which we have a scriptural reason to believe it was before the foundation, so hence 2 Cor 5:19 is one of the clearest scriptures for Eternal Justification, which makes it a Gospel Doctrine !

beloved57
February 22nd, 2015, 01:20 AM
Now many enemies of the Gospel Doctrine of Non Imputation, which does equate to Eternal Justification, they make the slanderous accusation that , for one to believe in Eternal Justification, it must mean they have no regard for the Cross of Christ, but that is a slander and misrepresentation, and here is why:

Justification is derived from non imputation of sin, which we have reasonably concluded to be first and foremost from before the foundation of the world, based upon these Two scriptures 1 Pet 1:20; Rev 13:8, where its obvious God has purposed to impute sin on Christ, in order for Him to die for them in the fullness of time Gal 4:4; 1 Cor 15:3;

Hence Eternal Justification, Non Imputation of sin has its premise on God imputing the sins of the elect upon Christ, so that He in the fullness of time would come and die for them, and so this shows the enemies of the Gospel [EJ is an Gospel Truth] that their accusations are false and unjust, for EJ has everything to do with Christ's Death for Imputed sins of the Elect to Him !

Nanja
February 22nd, 2015, 08:34 AM
Jn 6:38

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Jesus here makes it plain as to why He came down from Heaven, it was to do His Father's and God will, the same will in Heb 10:7,9-10

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This lets us know that before He came down from heaven, He knew it had to do with His previous Suretyship engagement, to be an Offering for sin Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Thats the Offering in Heb 10:10,14 ! So all the time before His coming into the world, the sins of those He was charged with, were never charged to them, a whole World of men 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Those whom Christ had been charged with their sins,they never legally by God, had them charged to them, which makes them even before the Incarnation, legally Justified, Acquitted from them, and the condemnation of them, even too, when they are dead in trespasses and sins they are Acquitted before God of all sin ! All this is True from the fact that In the Eternal Purpose of Christ, before the foundation, He was already slain by Eternal Decree, which means that God had already determined that Christ should die in their stead for their sin and condemnation, making them free from all condemnation !



Amen!

God's Election, the World of the ones Christ died for,
were never under God's Wrath at any time.
How could they be if their sins were never imputed to them?

David was a Son of God and clearly understood that fact:

Ps. 32:1-2 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity,
and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Consequently, the only ones who have their sins charged to them,
are those whom Christ did not die for Rom. 9:22; they were not chosen in Christ Mat. 13:14-15 KJV
to receive the adoption of sons Eph. 1:4-5, not included in that Justified World that God Loved John 3:16.

~~~~~

beloved57
February 22nd, 2015, 09:02 AM
Amen!

God's Election, the World of the ones Christ died for,
were never under God's Wrath at any time.
How could they be if their sins were never imputed to them?

David was a Son of God and clearly understood that fact:

Ps. 32:1-2 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity,
and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Consequently, the only ones who have their sins charged to them,
are those whom Christ did not die for Rom. 9:22; they were not chosen in Christ Mat. 13:14-15 KJV
to receive the adoption of sons Eph. 1:4-5, not included in that Justified World that God Loved John 3:16.

~~~~~

Excellent Summation ! Thanking God !

Nanja
February 22nd, 2015, 11:09 AM
Excellent Summation ! Thanking God !


Thanking Him right along with you for a very edifying thread! ☺

~~~~~

beloved57
February 22nd, 2015, 11:36 AM
Thanking Him right along with you for a very edifying thread! ☺

~~~~~

Thanks to God that He gave me the privilege of feedIng His Sheep !

Nanja
February 22nd, 2015, 03:23 PM
Thanks to God that He gave me the privilege of feedIng His Sheep !


Amen, and thanking Him for predestining you to feed this Sheep!


Ps. 92:4 For thou, LORD, hast made me glad through thy work:
I will triumph in the works of thy hands.

Acts 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Job 23:14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.


Praise Him!

~~~~~

beloved57
February 22nd, 2015, 04:11 PM
Because of the Non Imputation of sin, and that from before the foundation, there can never be condemnation to them which are in Christ Rom 8:1

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

How could it be when those in Christ where Chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

And Grace was given them in Him [Christ Jesus] before the World began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

So in reality they themselves have never been condemned by God ! That is not to say they were not guilty of sin and condemnation Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

However the Guilt and Charge of it was Charged to Christ before the World Began 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained[For Redemption] before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain [for sins charged to Him] from the foundation of the world.

So the deserved condemnation of Rom 5:18 was not legally charged to them personally in Christ Rom 8:1 !

beloved57
February 24th, 2015, 02:41 AM
What does it mean to you, to walk in the spirit?

Rabbit trail question. Stick with the theme of this thread , which is Eternal Justification !

beloved57
June 1st, 2015, 02:11 AM
Christ , if He died for us was Our Surety Heb 7:22

22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Christ shedding His Blood was out of a Suretyship responsibility to a better covenant or testament Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new/better testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The many here are them He was made a surety for !

Now the question is, when did Christ become their Surety ? It was before the foundation of the world, thats why we have scriptures like 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained[to die] before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

He was slain in His Suretyship Purpose from the foundation of the World, meaning though He had not already in time died, yet it had already before time been detrmined that He would die as a Surety, so Jesus said Lk 22:22

And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!

It had been determined by the Eternal Counsels of the Godhead that Christ would come and die a Surety Death for the sins of God's Chosen People, those Chosen in the Surety before the foundation Eph 1:4.

beloved57
June 1st, 2015, 03:00 AM
As Our Covenant Surety, it was agreed upon from Everlasting in the Eternal Counsel/Purpose of the Godhead Eph 3:11

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Notice that this purpose was in the Mediator Surety Christ Jesus ! Christ Jesus is His Mediator designation like here 1 Tim 2:5

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

And also here 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus The Mediator Surety before the world began,

It was agreed upon from everlasting that when Gods Chosen People would become guilty debtors to His Law by their sin and disobedience, that instead of them having to pay that sin debt, Christ would in their place pay the debt they incurred against God.

This Suretyship agreement went something like along the lines of that which Paul had with Philemon, who had a runaway slave, that Paul had met, which he became a believer through Pauls Ministry of the Gospel, and upon the slave returning to his master, Paul said these words Philemon 1:18-19

18 If he hath wronged thee, or oweth thee ought, put that on mine account;

19 I Paul have written it with mine own hand, I will repay it: albeit I do not say to thee how thou owest unto me even thine own self besides.

You see that ? To put any wrong doing he had done against him, to put it on Pauls account, so Paul could repay it ! Thats the Principle of Suretyship that Christ was made for them He died for !

Christ unto the Father was made Surety for the sins of God's Elect, the Sheep, when they would sin in Adam initially and then in themselves as they are born physically into the world dead in trespasses and sins, even as others.

In the Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph 3:11 Christ was their Surety before the foundation, their sin in Adam and all their own sins had already been realized beforehand in God's Purpose and Charged to His Account, and so they for all intents and purposes were already in the Purpose of God Justified from them before they ever happened, by Suretyship agreement, which equates to Eternal Justification !

Nanja
June 1st, 2015, 05:49 PM
As Our Covenant Surety, it was agreed upon from Everlasting in the Eternal Counsel/Purpose of the Godhead Eph 3:11

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Notice that this purpose was in the Mediator Surety Christ Jesus ! Christ Jesus is His Mediator designation like here 1 Tim 2:5

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

And also here 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus The Mediator Surety before the world began,

It was agreed upon from everlasting that when Gods Chosen People would become guilty debtors to His Law by their sin and disobedience, that instead of them having to pay that sin debt, Christ would in their place pay the debt they incurred against God.

This Suretyship agreement went something like along the lines of that which Paul had with Philemon, who had a runaway slave, that Paul had met, which he became a believer through Pauls Ministry of the Gospel, and upon the slave returning to his master, Paul said these words Philemon 1:18-19

18 If he hath wronged thee, or oweth thee ought, put that on mine account;

19 I Paul have written it with mine own hand, I will repay it: albeit I do not say to thee how thou owest unto me even thine own self besides.

You see that ? To put any wrong doing he had done against him, to put it on Pauls account, so Paul could repay it ! Thats the Principle of Suretyship that Christ was made for them He died for !


Christ unto the Father was made Surety for the sins of God's Elect, the Sheep, when they would sin in Adam initially and then in themselves as they are born physically into the world dead in trespasses and sins, even as others.

In the Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph 3:11 Christ was their Surety before the foundation, their sin in Adam and all their own sins had already been realized beforehand in God's Purpose and Charged to His Account, and so they for all intents and purposes were already in the Purpose of God Justified from them before they ever happened, by Suretyship agreement, which equates to Eternal Justification !


Amen!

Parts 1 and 2 perfectly illustrate from the scriptures, the meaning of
Christ's Suretyship in the Everlasting Covenant, and who it is
that He was made a Surety for: God's Chosen Elect in Christ Eph. 1:4,
who were given Grace in Christ before the foundation of the world 2 Tim. 1:9.
And they are but a remnant of all of humanity: Justified from Everlasting.

~~~~~

beloved57
June 1st, 2015, 11:09 PM
Amen!

Parts 1 and 2 perfectly illustrate from the scriptures, the meaning of
Christ's Suretyship in the Everlasting Covenant, and who it is
that He was made a Surety for: God's Chosen Elect in Christ Eph. 1:4,
who were given Grace in Christ before the foundation of the world 2 Tim. 1:9.
And they are but a remnant of all of humanity: Justified from Everlasting.

~~~~~

Amen Sister!

beloved57
July 23rd, 2015, 11:01 PM
Though its not specifically stated, it is strongly indicated and signified in 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

This Grace was given [True Believers] us in Christ Jesus [when] before the world began, and yes this is one of those deep things of God of the Gospel that the natural man cannot receive, it must be revealed by the Spirit 1 Cor 2:10-14, this Grace was given believers in Christ Jesus their Covenant Head and Mediator, before the world began, in which Grace comprehended all spiritual blessings Eph 1:3-4


3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

That we enjoy in time, and so it compreheded our Eternal Justification, for its plainly stated that we were Justified by Grace Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

And again, This Grace was given us in Christ Jesus, when ? Before the world began !

glorydaz
July 23rd, 2015, 11:11 PM
beloved57, what's the benefit to believing in Calvinism over someone else who does not believe in it?

Better not use that word "believe". Believing is a "work" according to b57.

beloved57
July 24th, 2015, 05:59 AM
beloved57, what's the benefit to believing in Calvinism over someone else who does not believe in it?

Are you responding to post 170 ?

Nanja
July 24th, 2015, 03:00 PM
Though its not specifically stated, it is strongly indicated and signified in 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

This Grace was given [True Believers] us in Christ Jesus [when] before the world began, and yes this is one of those deep things of God of the Gospel that the natural man cannot receive, it must be revealed by the Spirit 1 Cor 2:10-14, this Grace was given believers in Christ Jesus their Covenant Head and Mediator, before the world began, in which Grace comprehended all spiritual blessings Eph 1:3-4


3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

That we enjoy in time, and so it compreheded our Eternal Justification, for its plainly stated that we were Justified by Grace Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

And again, This Grace was given us in Christ Jesus, when ? Before the world began !



Very True!

Also, Eph. 1:7 witnesses to the fact that the Elect who were chosen (eklegomai) in Christ
before the foundation of the world Eph. 1:4-5, they already have forgiveness of sins:

Eph. 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood,
the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace

So having forgiveness of sins is a declaration that all the Election of Grace are Justified;
for no sin was ever charged to them, but charged to their Surety Christ Jesus in their stead.

Rom. 4:7-8 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Rom. 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

This Justification from Everlasting, according to the riches of His Grace,
will be revealed to every one of them in time, by Faith given in New Birth.

~~~~~

beloved57
July 24th, 2015, 03:10 PM
Very True!

Also, Eph. 1:7 witnesses to the fact that the Elect who were chosen (eklegomai) in Christ
before the foundation of the world Eph. 1:4-5, they already have forgiveness of sins:

Eph. 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood,
the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace

So having forgiveness of sins is a declaration that all the Election of Grace are Justified;
for no sin was ever charged to them, but charged to their Surety Christ Jesus in their stead.

Rom. 4:7-8 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Rom. 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

This Justification from Everlasting, according to the riches of His Grace,
will be revealed to every one of them in time, by Faith given in New Birth.

~~~~~

Yes, that is so true, the Elect had forgiveness of sins before the foundation because their sins that they were going to commit in Adam and in themselves had already been charged to Christ as their Everlasting Surety ! They were also in Christ of which there is no condemnation Rom 8:1 !

Nanja
July 24th, 2015, 03:26 PM
Yes, that is so true, the Elect had forgiveness of sins before the foundation because their sins that they were going to commit in Adam and in themselves had already been charged to Christ as their Everlasting Surety ! They were also in Christ of which there is no condemnation Rom 8:1 !


TY! Absolutely! ☺

~~~~~

beloved57
October 21st, 2015, 07:08 AM
1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This scripture indicates the absolute Truth of the Gospel of Eternal Justification or believers having been Justified before God before the world began. See God the Father put believers in Christ, or how could scripture read here in this text "But of him are ye in Christ Jesus"

Now the question is, how long has then been so with God, that He put believers in Christ Jesus ?

Paul answers that question in 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own[B] purpose and grace, which was given us[believers] in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Before the world began, because before it began, God gave us believers Purpose and Grace in Christ Jesus, and so at that same date, He viewed us and made us to be in Christ Jesus, and even then Christ was made unto us [in Him] Righteousness 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Which Righteousness imputes also to us Justification, for Justification is declaring one Righteous ! So being in Christ Jesus before the World began, with Purpose and Grace given us in Him 2 Tim 1:9, we had to be Righteous in Christ before the world began, hence Eternal Justification, a Gospel of Gods Grace Truth !

Nanja
October 23rd, 2015, 03:34 PM
1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This scripture indicates the absolute Truth of the Gospel of Eternal Justification or believers having been Justified before God before the world began. See God the Father put believers in Christ, or how could scripture read here in this text "But of him are ye[believers] in Christ Jesus"

Now the question is, how long has then been so with God, that He put believers in Christ Jesus ?

Paul answers that question in 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us[believers] in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Before the world began, because before it began, God gave us believers Purpose and Grace in Christ Jesus, and so at that same date, He viewed us and made us to be in Christ Jesus, and even then Christ was made unto us [in Him] Righteousness 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Which Righteousness imputes also to us Justification, for Justification is declaring one Righteous ! So being in Christ Jesus before the World began, with Purpose and Grace given us in Him 2 Tim 1:9, we had to be Righteous in Christ before the world began, hence Eternal Justification, a Gospel of Gods Grace Truth !



Just as you have effectively shown, the scriptures do testify of this Great Truth of Eternal Justification,
solely by God's Purpose and Grace, given to them He had chosen in Union with Christ, before time began.

This fact totally negates the false teaching that persons must perform some work of the flesh
such as believing, repenting, etc. in an attempt to make themselves righteous before God.

It's either that one was Righteous in Christ before time began (His Sheep),
or he will remain unrighteous before God to the end (goats) Mat. 25:33-34, 41, 46.

~~~~~

Grosnick Marowbe
October 23rd, 2015, 03:44 PM
B57 is a fanatical hyper-Calvinist. His number one follower is, Nanja. They
are a majority of two.

Bright Raven
October 23rd, 2015, 03:45 PM
B57 is a fanatical hyper-Calvinist. His number one follower is, Nanja. They
are a majority of two.

Yep!

beloved57
February 21st, 2016, 06:09 AM
Heb 7:22

22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament/covenant.

The word testament diathéké is also translated covenent. So Jesus was made a Surety of a Better Covenant, which is the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

The Shepherd is the Surety of the Sheep, set up in the Everlasting Covenant, wherein His Blood was purposed to be shed 1 Pet 1:19-20

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

So, hence Jesus engaged in His Suretyship responsibility before the foundation of the world.

This meant that the debt of sin that would be incurred by the sheep in Adam and in themselves became Christ's, and not theirs. Gods vindictive Justice looked for the payment not from them, the principals, but from the Surety, Jesus, the Great Shepherd/Surety of the Sheep ! This is a Legal transaction from Heaven whereby the debt that shall be incurred by the sheep in Adam against Gods Law, became the debt of their Surety, hence discharging them from all their sin debt, making them perfectly Righteous/Justified from their sins before God, even before the foundation of the world ! Jesus was made a Surety before the foundation of the world !

Nanja
February 21st, 2016, 09:16 AM
Heb 7:22

22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament/covenant.

The word testament diathéké is also translated covenent. So Jesus was made a Surety of a Better Covenant, which is the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

The Shepherd is the Surety of the Sheep, set up in the Everlasting Covenant, wherein His Blood was purposed to be shed 1 Pet 1:19-20

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

So, hence Jesus engaged in His Suretyship responsibility before the foundation of the world.

This meant that the debt of sin that would be incurred by the sheep in Adam and in themselves became Christ's, and not theirs. Gods vindictive Justice looked for the payment not from them, the principals, but from the Surety, Jesus, the Great Shepherd/Surety of the Sheep ! This is a Legal transaction from Heaven whereby the debt that shall be incurred by the sheep in Adam against Gods Law, became the debt of their Surety, hence discharging them from all their sin debt, making them perfectly Righteous/Justified from their sins before God, even before the foundation of the world ! Jesus was made a Surety before the foundation of the world !


Amen, Christ's Sheep are truly Blessed! :)

The Sheep Christ was made a Surety for before the foundation of the world are the same ones
given Him of the Father John 10:29; 17:2 and chosen In Union with Him before the foundation of the world
to have forgiveness / remission of sins Eph. 1:4-7, meaning no sins were ever charged to them,
but to their Surety instead Rom. 4:8. God has declared them Righteous / Justified even from Everlasting,
according to His Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph. 3:11; Rev. 13:8 before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9.

~~~~

beloved57
February 21st, 2016, 09:28 AM
Amen, Christ's Sheep are truly Blessed! :)

The Sheep Christ was made a Surety for before the foundation of the world are the same ones
given Him of the Father John 10:29; 17:2 and chosen In Union with Him before the foundation of the world
to have forgiveness / remission of sins Eph. 1:4-7, meaning no sins were ever charged to them,
but to their Surety instead Rom. 4:8. God has declared them Righteous / Justified even from Everlasting,
according to His Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph. 3:11; Rev. 13:8 before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9.

~~~~
Amen Sister! [emoji1]

beloved57
March 6th, 2016, 01:42 AM
Justification before the foundation for certain sinners is so true simply because from everlasting their Surety, the Lord Jesus Christ was ordained in the counsels of God to satisfy God against their sins and iniquities that they would commit in time, so we read 1 Pet 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;


19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:


20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

And God from everlasting rested in that fact Heb 4:3

3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Matt 25:34

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

God in Covenant with His Son from everlasting, imputing the sins of the elect to His account, so that He would in time come and be a propitiation sacrifice 1 Jn 4:10, at that time He Justified His elect people from all their sins.

Nanja
March 6th, 2016, 08:31 AM
Justification before the foundation for certain sinners is so true simply because from everlasting their Surety, the Lord Jesus Christ was ordained in the counsels of God to satisfy God against their sins and iniquities that they would commit in time, so we read 1 Pet 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;


19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:


20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

And God from everlasting rested in that fact Heb 4:3

3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Matt 25:34

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

God in Covenant with His Son from everlasting, imputing the sins of the elect to His account, so that He would in time come and be a propitiation sacrifice 1 Jn 4:10, at that time He Justified His elect people from all their sins.




What a Great Truth!

God's Elect People were chosen in Christ their Surety Heb. 7:22 before He ever Created the world, to have redemption through His Blood Eph. 1:4-7.

They were Justified from Everlasting according to God's Eternal Purpose Eph. 3:11; Rev. 13:8; 2 Tim. 1:9.
And as each one was born in time, they were regenerated and given Justifying Faith in New Birth, which is a Fruit of the Spirit of God.

Yes, it was from Everlasting when the Elect's sins were imputed to Christ Is. 53:6, and His Righteousness imputed to them Rom. 4:8.
Thus God was propitiated for this Elect World, abjuring them Righteous!

Praise the Lord!

~~~~~

beloved57
March 6th, 2016, 10:04 AM
What a Great Truth!

God's Elect People were chosen in Christ their Surety Heb. 7:22 before He ever Created the world, to have redemption through His Blood Eph. 1:4-7.

They were Justified from Everlasting according to God's Eternal Purpose Eph. 3:11; Rev. 13:8; 2 Tim. 1:9.
And as each one was born in time, they were regenerated and given Justifying Faith in New Birth, which is a Fruit of the Spirit of God.

Yes, it was from Everlasting when the Elect's sins were imputed to Christ Is. 53:6, and His Righteousness imputed to them Rom. 4:8.
Thus God was propitiated for this Elect World, abjuring them Righteous!

Praise the Lord!

~~~~~
Welcome to the fellowship of the saints and the truth as it is in Christ Jesus.

Nanja
March 6th, 2016, 04:58 PM
Welcome to the fellowship of the saints and the truth as it is in Christ Jesus.



Amen, I receive it by His Grace! Articulately spoken, Brother!

Father Loves His Son and the Body He Elected in Him from Everlasting: They are One Body, the Body of Christ.

It was God's Purpose from Everlasting that He would not impute sin upon His Elect World.

2 Cor. 5:19, 21
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

~~~~~

beloved57
March 6th, 2016, 05:17 PM
Amen, I receive it by His Grace! Articulately spoken, Brother!

Father Loves His Son and the Body He Elected in Him from Everlasting: They are One Body, the Body of Christ.

It was God's Purpose from Everlasting that He would not impute sin upon His Elect World.

2 Cor. 5:19, 21
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

~~~~~
Yep!

beloved57
November 3rd, 2016, 04:35 PM
Eternal Justification based upon the Suretyship of Christ !


It cant be denied by the adversaries of Truth that Christ was made a Surety for a better Covenant Heb 7:22

By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament, which I believe refers to the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting

covenant, Now basically a Surety has agreed to take on the debt,liability, payment for another; Now in this a pact is made by the Surety and the Creditor, the Creditor having accepted the Suretyship. Its like a striking of hands, or a hand shake like as here Prov 6:1

My son, if thou be surety for thy friend, if thou hast stricken thy hand with a stranger,

Prov 17:18

A man void of understanding striketh hands, and becometh surety in the presence of his friend.

Now once the Creditor approves of this, those whom should incur a debt, a debt the Creditor knows the debtor cannot pay, by pledge of agreement, the Creditor must look for payment of the debt from the Surety and not the debtor, which discharges the debtor.

And so the debtors have been legally discharged or acquitted, justified from having to undergo any legal condemnation of the law, not to receive any meted out justice. Now lets ask ourselves, when did the Son Of God, Jesus actually become the Surety of an better Covenant ? Was it before the world began, or after. Was it before the Cross ? Whenever it was, thats when the debtors, for whom Christ was made Surety, were Justified in the eyes of the Law, from all condemnation they would occur upon themselves !

Nanja
November 5th, 2016, 05:30 AM
Eternal Justification based upon the Suretyship of Christ !


It cant be denied by the adversaries of Truth that Christ was made a Surety for a better Covenant Heb 7:22

By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament, which I believe refers to the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting

covenant, Now basically a Surety has agreed to take on the debt,liability, payment for another; Now in this a pact is made by the Surety and the Creditor, the Creditor having accepted the Suretyship. Its like a striking of hands, or a hand shake like as here Prov 6:1

My son, if thou be surety for thy friend, if thou hast stricken thy hand with a stranger,

Prov 17:18

A man void of understanding striketh hands, and becometh surety in the presence of his friend.

Now once the Creditor approves of this, those whom should incur a debt, a debt the Creditor knows the debtor cannot pay, by pledge of agreement, the Creditor must look for payment of the debt from the Surety and not the debtor, which discharges the debtor.

And so the debtors have been legally discharged or acquitted, justified from having to undergo any legal condemnation of the law, not to receive any meted out justice. Now lets ask ourselves, when did the Son Of God, Jesus actually become the Surety of an better Covenant ? Was it before the world began, or after. Was it before the Cross ? Whenever it was, thats when the debtors, for whom Christ was made Surety, were Justified in the eyes of the Law, from all condemnation they would occur upon themselves !


Amen! These debtors, God's Elect, were legally abjured Righteous according to the Law by the Creditor, based solely upon the Blood Work of their Surety.

And this was when they were in a state of being at enmity against the Creditor Rom. 5:10, and before they come to Believe in their Surety and His Work on their behalf Rom. 4:25, 5:9, even before they call upon Him, or do anything else! ☺

~~~

beloved57
November 5th, 2016, 06:26 AM
Amen! These debtors, God's Elect, were legally abjured Righteous according to the Law by the Creditor, based solely upon the Blood Work of their Surety.

And this was when they were in a state of being at enmity against the Creditor Rom. 5:10, and before they come to Believe in their Surety and His Work on their behalf Rom. 4:25, 5:9, even before they call upon Him, or do anything else! ☺

~~~

Amen Sister !

beloved57
November 5th, 2016, 06:34 AM
Also, it should go without saying, to deny eternal justification based upon the Cross in time, is to deny Justification by the Cross in time, they are inseparable. Even though the Cross did not actually occur until 33ad, it by no means subjected God to have to wait until then to acquit His Elect based upon it. Neither did have to wait until 33 a d to actually charge the sins of His elect upon their Surety Jesus Christ, He very well could have done that before the world began, which doing, acquitted the elect from all the charges they would incur in time, by #1 Their natural head adam, and #2 their own personal individual acts of transgressions after their physical life began in time ! So to deny eternal justification, is to deny Justification by the blood of Christ at anytime !

Nanja
November 5th, 2016, 07:04 AM
Also, it should go without saying, to deny eternal justification based upon the Cross in time, is to deny Justification by the Cross in time, they are inseparable. Even though the Cross did not actually occur until 33ad, it by no means subjected God to have to wait until then to acquit His Elect based upon it. Neither did have to wait until 33 a d to actually charge the sins of His elect upon their Surety Jesus Christ, He very well could have done that before the world began, which doing, acquitted the elect from all the charges they would incur in time, by #1 Their natural head adam, and #2 their own personal individual acts of transgressions after their physical life began in time ! So to deny eternal justification, is to deny Justification by the blood of Christ at anytime !


Eloquently stated Brother!

~~~

beloved57
November 5th, 2016, 08:11 AM
Eloquently stated Brother!

~~~

Bless you my Sister ! There are many who inconsistently deny eternal justification, but claim to believe in justification at the cross. Thats inconsistent. Also those very same ones who claim to believe in justification at the cross, will say that sinners died for on the cross, are born into the world condemned !

Nanja
November 5th, 2016, 03:33 PM
Bless you my Sister !

Bless you too my Brother!



There are many who inconsistently deny eternal justification, but claim to believe in justification at the cross. Thats inconsistent.

True. I believe the reason for their misconception is that the Lord hasn't shown them His Covenant Ps. 25:14.

By Christ being the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world Rev. 13:8 means that in The Mind of God, all His Elect chosen in Christ and predestinated to be God's Adopted Sons/Children to have remission/forgiveness of sins Eph. 1:4-7 [the exact same ones represented in their Federal Head Adam before he sinned], were in the reckoning of God already abjured Righteous in their Covenant Head and Surety Christ Jesus by non-imputation of sin Is. 53:6, and imputation of His Righteousness to them Rom. 4:6-8.



Also those very same ones who claim to believe in justification at the cross, will say that sinners died for on the cross, are born into the world condemned !

But they are deceived!

The Elect can never be condemned and yet be one Chosen in Union with Christ Rom. 8:1.

It's only that they partake of the same nature as the non-elect do Eph. 2:2, until they are given a New Nature / Born Again, that identifies them as a Child of God 1 Pet. 1:3!

~~~

beloved57
November 5th, 2016, 04:13 PM
Bless you too my Brother!




True. I believe the reason for their misconception is that the Lord hasn't shown them His Covenant Ps. 25:14.

By Christ being the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world Rev. 13:8 means that in The Mind of God, all His Elect chosen in Christ and predestinated to be God's Adopted Sons/Children to have remission/forgiveness of sins Eph. 1:4-7 [the exact same ones represented in their Federal Head Adam before he sinned], were in the reckoning of God already abjured Righteous in their Covenant Head and Surety Christ Jesus by non-imputation of sin Is. 53:6, and imputation of His Righteousness to them Rom. 4:6-8.




But they are deceived!

The Elect can never be condemned and yet be one Chosen in Union with Christ Rom. 8:1.

It's only that they partake of the same nature as the non-elect do Eph. 2:2, until they are given a New Nature / Born Again, that identifies them as a Child of God 1 Pet. 1:3!

~~~

Excellent Speech!

beloved57
November 14th, 2016, 01:08 PM
Eternal Justification is true because Justification by Grace is true Rom 3:24;Titus3:7; and since Grace had been given believers before the world began 2Tim1:9

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Then believers had been Justified by that same Grace before the world began!

Nanja
November 14th, 2016, 04:59 PM
Eternal Justification is true because Justification by Grace is true Rom 3:24;Titus3:7; and since Grace had been given believers before the world began 2Tim1:9

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Then believers had been Justified by that same Grace before the world began!


Yes they were! ☺

Christ was foreordained in Eternity to be the Mediator Head and Surety Heb. 7:22 of all the Sheep the Father elected in Him before the foundation Eph. 1:4-7, or before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9. And that's why it's referred to as the Everlasting Covenant, for that is when their Justification by Grace occurred, and it was when Eternal Life was Promised to God's Elect, it was before the world began Titus 1:2.

So it was from Eternity that every one of The Sheep that Christ was Surety for was abjured Righteous according to God's Law and Justice, thus His Wrath against them was propitiated Rom. 5:9; Rev. 13:8.

Rom. 4:25
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Heb. 13:20
Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant

~~~

beloved57
November 15th, 2016, 02:20 AM
Yes they were! ☺

Christ was foreordained in Eternity to be the Mediator Head and Surety Heb. 7:22 of all the Sheep the Father elected in Him before the foundation Eph. 1:4-7, or before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9. And that's why it's referred to as the Everlasting Covenant, for that is when their Justification by Grace occurred, and it was when Eternal Life was Promised to God's Elect, it was before the world began Titus 1:2.

So it was from Eternity that every one of The Sheep that Christ was Surety for was abjured Righteous according to God's Law and Justice, thus His Wrath against them was propitiated Rom. 5:9; Rev. 13:8.

Rom. 4:25
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Heb. 13:20
Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant

~~~

Amen Sister!

beloved57
November 16th, 2016, 04:19 AM
The Elect were Justified in Christ before the world began !

Now this is True on Two grounds. #1 They are in Christ due to their election in Him Eph 1:4 and 1 Cor 1:30

It is because of him[God the Father] that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.NIV

And He chose them in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love

And we know that there is no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus Rom 8:1

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

Therefore they are them that are Justified. Justification is the antithesis to condemnation as seen here Rom 5:18

Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

John Gill writes of Rom 8:1 "them who are in Christ Jesus "


which are in Christ Jesus; not as mere professors are in Christ, who may be lost and damned: but this being in Christ, respects either that union and interest which the elect of God have in Christ, from everlasting: being loved by him with an everlasting love; betrothed to him in a conjugal relation; chosen in him before the foundation of the world; united to him as members to an head; considered in him in the covenant of grace, when he engaged for them as their surety; and so they were preserved in him, notwithstanding their fall in Adam; in time he took upon him their nature, and represented them in it; they were reckoned in him when he hung upon the cross, was buried, rose again, and sat down in heavenly places; in consequence of which union to Christ, and being in him, they are secure from all condemnation: or this may respect an open and manifestative being in Christ at conversion, when they become new creatures, pass from death to life, and so shall never enter into condemnation: hence they stand further described, as such

So the mere fact that some were Chosen by God in Christ before the foundation, necessitates their Eternal Justification before the foundation. You cant believe in Election, and deny Eternal Justification as some men do !

beloved57
November 17th, 2016, 03:57 AM
Accepted in Him equates to Justification in Him !


In line with the fact that Gods elect/chosen are Justified in Christ before the foundation as Per Eph 1:4, because they are in Him, and theres no condemnation to them in Him Rom 8:1

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.esv

Just as clear is that those Chosen in Christ before the foundation, were as early accepted in Him the Beloved Eph 1:6

to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He has freely given us in the Beloved One,

This agrees with 2 Tim 1:9 that Grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began:

He has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

And so they were accepted in the Beloved. Eph 1:6

6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

That word in the greek χαριτόω means:

I favor, bestow freely on.

properly, highly-favoredbecause receptive to God's grace. 5487 (http://biblehub.com/greek/5487.htm) (xaritóō) is used twice in the NT (Lk 1:28 and Eph 1:6), both times of God extending Himself to freely bestow grace (favor).

And of course we are Justified freely by His Grace Rom 3:24;Titus 3:7

And then the english word itself for accepted means:

to have a favorable opinion of, Approved.

Remember when God told cain that if he did good he would be accepted Gen 4:7

If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?


Well, Gods chosen are accepted in Christ before the foundation without doing anything good, it was by free grace ! And this Justified them before God !

Nanja
November 17th, 2016, 09:08 AM
Accepted in Him equates to Justification in Him !
Well, Gods chosen are accepted in Christ before the foundation without doing anything good, it was by free grace ! And this Justified them before God ![/FONT][/COLOR]


Excellent posts, and comment by John Gill!

Just as you have shown, God's Elect were Justified in their Covenant Head and Surety from Everlasting before they are born in time or have the opportunity to do anything, but simply because they were Chosen and Accepted In Union with Him Eph. 1:4,6.

Unlike false religion which teaches that a person is justified based upon works they do in the flesh:
Exercising their own faith, or believing on Christ, obeying His commands, etc., which makes what they DO result in their justification, as a type of reward which gives way to boasting Eph. 2:8-9.




[B]So the mere fact that some were Chosen by God in Christ before the foundation, necessitates their Eternal Justification before the foundation. You cant believe in Election, and deny Eternal Justification as some men do !


Amen to that!

beloved57
November 19th, 2016, 02:46 AM
Blessed with all spiritual blessings means eternal Justification !

Back in the book of Ephesians, Paul writes these words to Believers, Gods Chosen Eph 1:1-4

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

According to our election in Christ, God blessed the elect with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ. Some of these spiritual blessings we partake of only after were born into the world, like regeneration and faith, both spiritual blessings, however Justification before the Mind of God is a Spiritual blessing we have in Christ as early as our election in Him was, before the foundation of the world.

Yes, all the elect like other men are born dead in sin, and are by nature children of wrath as others, but different from the non elect portion of mankind, they have been chosen in Christ before the foundation, and in Him have been given all spiritual blessings, such as Justification, and so unlike the non elect, they are still born Justified before God, even as they are born, by nature, children of wrath as others !

Nanja
November 19th, 2016, 07:50 AM
Blessed with all spiritual blessings means eternal Justification !

Back in the book of Ephesians, Paul writes these words to Believers, Gods Chosen Eph 1:1-4

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

According to our election in Christ, God blessed the elect with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ. Some of these spiritual blessings we partake of only after were born into the world, like regeneration and faith, both spiritual blessings, however Justification before the Mind of God is a Spiritual blessing we have in Christ as early as our election in Him was, before the foundation of the world.

Yes, all the elect like other men are born dead in sin, and are by nature children of wrath as others, but different from the non elect portion of mankind, they have been chosen in Christ before the foundation, and in Him have been given all spiritual blessings, such as Justification, and so unlike the non elect, they are still born Justified before God, even as they are born, by nature, children of wrath as others !



True, even though God's elect are born dead in sin and are by nature children of wrath, as the devil's children are, they were never under any condemnation Rom. 8:1 because they were chosen In Union with Christ their Surety Head Heb. 7:22 before the world began, being Saved and Called according to God's Purpose and Grace 2 Tim. 1:9 to be His Adopted Children Eph. 1:4-5, they receive all Spiritual Blessings on account of His Blood Work on their behalf Rev. 13:8. So when Christ was Raised from the dead as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb. 13:20, they being In Him were raised with Him, evidence of their being reconciled to God Rom. 5:10; Rom. 4:7-8, and shall in Time be born again of His Spirit and given a new nature which identifies them as being Children of God Gal. 4:6. All these Spiritual Blessings are evidence of their being Justified in God's sight from Everlasting!

~~~

beloved57
November 19th, 2016, 11:31 AM
2 Cor 5:19 can very well be a scripture on Eternal Justification, I believe it is, and therefore a vital part of the message of reconciliation, or the word of reconciliation 2 Cor 5:19

That is, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

That word in en as in Christ can sometimes be translated with, and so can be rendered :", that God was with Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them.



This could very well be the transaction agreement of Suretyship, when before the foundation, God the Father made His Son an Surety of an Better Covenant, which was the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,



Now its hard to deny that an Everlasting Covenant was made regarding the blood of Christ. And we know that His Blood shed was determined before the foundation of the world when we consider these two scriptures #1 Rev 13:8

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

1 Pet 1:20

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

I believe this has to do with being preappointed the redeemer of Gods elect before the foundation. This preappointment I believe was in establishing the Surety engagement of Christ, wherein the sins of Gods elect would be charged to Him, and Suretyship Righteousness and Obedience would be charged to the Elect, so Vs 21 of 2 Cor 5:21 supplements Vs 19 !

Nanja
November 20th, 2016, 09:17 AM
2 Cor 5:19 can very well be a scripture on Eternal Justification, I believe it is, and therefore a vital part of the message of reconciliation, or the word of reconciliation 2 Cor 5:19

That is, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

That word in en as in Christ can sometimes be translated with, and so can be rendered :", that God was with Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them.



This could very well be the transaction agreement of Suretyship, when before the foundation, God the Father made His Son an Surety of an Better Covenant, which was the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,



Now its hard to deny that an Everlasting Covenant was made regarding the blood of Christ. And we know that His Blood shed was determined before the foundation of the world when we consider these two scriptures #1 Rev 13:8

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

1 Pet 1:20

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

I believe this has to do with being preappointed the redeemer of Gods elect before the foundation. This preappointment I believe was in establishing the Surety engagement of Christ, wherein the sins of Gods elect would be charged to Him, and Suretyship Righteousness and Obedience would be charged to the Elect, so Vs 21 of 2 Cor 5:21 supplements Vs 19 !


Yes, I Know you are right!☺

I believe that 2 Cor. 5:19 tells us that the World God was reconciling to Himself, not imputing their sins to them but to Christ, His preappointed Redeemer of the World, were those He elected in Him, to be Holy and without blame before Him in Love Eph. 1:4-7. And that, they being In Union with Christ, were "made the Righteousness of God in Him" 2 Cor. 5:21: The World of The Sheep that God Loved John 3:16; 10:15. And when the Sheep were reconciled to God by the Lamb Slain before the foundation Rev. 13:8, they were even then, in the Mind and Purpose of God Eph. 3:11, Justified from Everlasting by His Righteousness and Obedience on their behalf!

~~~

beloved57
November 21st, 2016, 12:04 AM
Gods Eternal Purpose/will in Christ demands Eternal Justification of His Chosen !

Eph 1:7-11

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8 (http://biblehub.com/ephesians/1-8.htm)Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9 (http://biblehub.com/ephesians/1-9.htm)Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10 (http://biblehub.com/ephesians/1-10.htm)That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11 (http://biblehub.com/ephesians/1-11.htm)In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

This purpose is the same purpose as that Paul will write of later in this same letter Eph 3:11

According to the et​ernal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

This purposed involved the forgiveness of sins Eph 1:7. This informs us that its always been the eternal purpose of God to forgive the sins of His people in Christ according to the riches of His Grace. Its always been from everlasting, not to punish His Chosen for their sins, but to punish their sins in the person of Christ. This is why David wrote of an mercy from everlasting to everlasting Ps 103:17

But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

This is why Christ was set forth, foreordained before the foundation in this redemptive purpose 1 Pet 1:18-20

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 (http://biblehub.com/1_peter/1-19.htm)But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 (http://biblehub.com/1_peter/1-20.htm)Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you

Rom 3:24-25


Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Those words "set forth" is the greek word protithémi which means:

I purpose, design beforehand, determine.

"to place, set") – properly, to place before, setting forth in advance to achieve a particular purpose.

("to purpose") is the root of 4286 (http://biblehub.com/greek/4286.htm) /próthesis ("God's providence, eternal purpose),

The Purpose of God to remit the sins of His people through Christ was set forth from the beginning, because it His Eternal will to do so, by imputing the sins of His people unto Christ. All the Old Testament Saints were given Faith in His blood.

And since Gods will to forgive the sins of His People according to His Eternal Redemptive Purpose in Christ, Their Justification from their sins was from the establishment of that same Eternal Purpose !

beloved57
November 21st, 2016, 09:57 AM
By the way, I'm deeply indebted to God for His servant John Gill for his piece on Eternal Justification:
http://www.mountzionpbc.org/Index/index04.htm

With that stated I quote him here:


It deserves regard and attention, that the saints under the Old Testament, were justified by the same righteousness of Christ, as those under the New, and that before the sacrifice was offered up, the satisfaction given, and the everlasting righteousness brought in; for Christ's blood was shed for the remission of sins that were past, and his death was for the redemption of transgressions under the first Testament, #Ro 3:25 Heb 9:15.Now if God could, and actually did, justify some, three or four thousand years before the righteousness of Christ was actually wrought out, taking his Son's word and bond as their Surety, and in a view of his future righteousness; why could he not, and why may it not be thought he did, justify all his elect from eternity, upon the word and bond of their Surety, and on the basis of his future righteousness, which he had engaged to work out, and which he full well knew he would most certainly work out? and if there is no difficulty in conceiving of the one, there can be none in conceiving of the other.


Basically the point here is that if God Justified the OT Believers based upon the blood of Christ, many many centuries prior to His incarnation, then why doubt that He justified the elect from eternity based upon the blood of Christ that would be shed for them in time. Certainly He could trust His Son to come into the World and shed His blood of the everlasting covenant!

Nanja
November 22nd, 2016, 08:20 AM
Basically the point here is that if God Justified the OT Believers based upon the blood of Christ, many many centuries prior to His incarnation, then why doubt that He justified the elect from eternity based upon the blood of Christ that would be shed for them in time. Certainly He could trust His Son to come into the World and shed His blood of the everlasting covenant!


Excellent point! All Christ's Seed chosen In Union with Him from Everlasting were also Justified from Everlasting by the blood of their Surety regardless of when they are born in Time; before or after His incarnation. And I don't see how it's even possible that any elect child of God, Sanctified by the Work of the Spirit, could have any doubt with regard to this monumental Truth of scripture. For the Promise is that God shall show them His Covenant Ps. 25:14, and they have a genuine Interest in it because they are Beneficiaries of it :). Secondly, all God's Children are Taught by Him Is. 54:13 and shall be given understanding to Believe this Truth.

~~~

beloved57
November 22nd, 2016, 08:40 AM
Nanja

And I don't see how it's even possible that any elect child of God, Sanctified by the Work of the Spirit, could have any doubt with regard to this monumental Truth of scripture. For the Promise is that God shall show them His Covenant Ps. 25:14,

Exactly! Gods people will be taught all things by the Spirit relevant to their Salvation in Christ.

beloved57
April 11th, 2017, 01:34 AM
Being Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9 means Justification by God from the foundation of the World. Why and how can that be ? Because from God's Eternal Purpose and perspective Christ was slain from the foundation of the World Rev 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


Rev 5:9

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

So Christ being slain denotes His Blood which denotes Justification by His Blood Rom 5:9

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Nanja
April 11th, 2017, 06:23 AM
Being Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9 means Justification by God from the foundation of the World. Why and how can that be ? Because from God's Eternal Purpose and perspective Christ was slain from the foundation of the World Rev 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


Rev 5:9

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

So Christ being slain denotes His Blood which denotes Justification by His Blood Rom 5:9

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.


Amen Brother!

According to the Eternal Purpose of God Eph. 1:11, the Election of Grace, chosen of the Father in Christ before the foundation Eph. 1:4, were already Justified by the Blood of the Lamb, their designated Surety / Saviour Heb. 7:22 from Everlasting. And Justification entails all that Salvation is: Complete reconciliation to God Rom. 5:10, according to the riches of His Grace Eph. 1:7, for all sins they would ever commit in Time: Saved from the penalty of sin before they sinned!

And being declared by God to be Saved and Called before the World began 2 Tim. 1:9, they were also Glorified in Christ Jesus!

Rom. 8:30
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

beloved57
April 11th, 2017, 07:23 AM
Amen Brother!

According to the Eternal Purpose of God Eph. 1:11, the Election of Grace, chosen of the Father in Christ before the foundation Eph. 1:4, were already Justified by the Blood of the Lamb, their designated Surety / Saviour Heb. 7:22 from Everlasting. And Justification entails all that Salvation is: Complete reconciliation to God Rom. 5:10, according to the riches of His Grace Eph. 1:7, for all sins they would ever commit in Time: Saved from the penalty of sin before they sinned!

And being declared by God to be Saved and Called before the World began 2 Tim. 1:9, they were also Glorified in Christ Jesus!

Rom. 8:30
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Amen Sister!

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beloved57
April 14th, 2017, 05:41 AM
Due to the fact that in the mind and purpose of God, Christ was slain from the foundation of the World, it must be the sins of the Elect in His mind and purpose had been imputed upon Him, then must the Elect have been Justified from their sins from the foundation.

Nanja
April 14th, 2017, 06:35 AM
Due to the fact that in the mind and purpose of God, Christ was slain from the foundation of the World, it must be the sins of the Elect in His mind and purpose had been imputed upon Him, then must the Elect have been Justified from their sins from the foundation.


True! The Elect were chosen in Christ their Surety from Everlasting to have remission of sins before the foundation.

So according to God's Law and Justice every one of them were Legally abjured Righteous in the Eternal Purpose of God because all of their sins were transferred to Christ the Lamb. Consequently, they are born into this world Justified.

beloved57
May 4th, 2017, 12:20 PM
Contending for Justification from Eternity for Gods Elect !

Now Justification is totally of God Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Yes it emanates from His Mind ! God is Eternal Deut 33:27

27The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

Its an Act/Work of His Eternal Mind premised upon the Lamb slain from the foundation Rev 13:8;1 Pet 1: 20, and all His Works are known from the beginning Acts 15:18

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Acts of God Mind are Eternal and Immutable Ps 33:11

11 The counsel of the Lord standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.

Nanja
May 4th, 2017, 03:56 PM
Contending for Justification from Eternity for Gods Elect !

Now Justification is totally of God Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Yes it emanates from His Mind ! God is Eternal Deut 33:27

27The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

Its an Act/Work of His Eternal Mind premised upon the Lamb slain from the foundation Rev 13:8;1 Pet 1: 20, and all His Works are known from the beginning Acts 15:18

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Acts of God Mind are Eternal and Immutable Ps 33:11

11 The counsel of the Lord standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.


Amen Brother! In the Mind and Eternal Purpose of God Eph. 3:11, the Lamb Slain Rev. 13:8 has from Eternity been wounded for the transgressions of all the Elect of God Is. 53:5 which He has Chosen In Union with Christ before the foundation Eph. 1:4: The sins they would commit in time were imputed to Christ and His Righteousness imputed to them in Eternity Ps. 32:1-2. Hence, they are Justified / Saved from Eternity !

2 Tim. 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

beloved57
May 4th, 2017, 04:31 PM
Amen Brother! In the Mind and Eternal Purpose of God Eph. 3:11, the Lamb Slain Rev. 13:8 has from Eternity been wounded for the transgressions of all the Elect of God Is. 53:5 which He has Chosen In Union with Christ before the foundation Eph. 1:4: The sins they would commit in time were imputed to Christ and His Righteousness imputed to them in Eternity Ps. 32:1-2. Hence, they are Justified / Saved from Eternity !

2 Tim. 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

Truly Amen!

beloved57
May 5th, 2017, 03:26 AM
Contending for Justification from Eternity for Gods Elect !2

Redemption by the Lamb was concieved in the Mind of God before the foundation 1 Pet 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

And the elect are Justified through the redemption that is in the Lamb Christ Jesus Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Nanja
May 5th, 2017, 06:32 AM
Contending for Justification from Eternity for Gods Elect !2

Redemption by the Lamb was concieved in the Mind of God before the foundation 1 Pet 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

And the elect are Justified through the redemption that is in the Lamb Christ Jesus Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:


Yes, we know from the scriptures, that it was from Eternity, before the World was created, that Christ the Son pledged as Surety to Redeem all His Seed, His Sons He delighted in Prov. 8:31, which were already considered holy and without blame before Him in Love Eph. 1:4-7, by His transferring their sins upon Himself through the Blood of the Everlasting Covenant of Grace Heb. 13:20. So when Christ, the Surety of His Sheep John 10:15, was raised again as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep, they being In Union with Him were declared Justified Rom. 3:24; 4:25!

Truster
May 5th, 2017, 06:38 AM
Your false doctrine, when applied to reality, denies that the children of Yisra'El were slaves in Egypt. You deny the need for redemption to be applied to the sinner, to save the sinner from the wrath of the law under which he was born and lives. Your doctrine actually flies in the face of the evangelism and the power it possess to set the captives free, because you deny captivity. If Adam was justified then why did he hide and why do the children of Adam run...

beloved57
May 5th, 2017, 07:34 AM
Yes, we know from the scriptures, that it was from Eternity, before the World was created, that Christ the Son pledged as Surety to Redeem all His Seed, His Sons He delighted in Prov. 8:31, which were already considered holy and without blame before Him in Love Eph. 1:4-7, by His transferring their sins upon Himself through the Blood of the Everlasting Covenant of Grace Heb. 13:20. So when Christ, the Surety of His Sheep John 10:15, was raised again as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep, they being In Union with Him were declared Justified Rom. 3:24; 4:25!
Absolutely correct!

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Epoisses
May 5th, 2017, 07:37 AM
Your false doctrine, when applied to reality, denies that the children of Yisra'El were slaves in Egypt. You deny the need for redemption to be applied to the sinner, to save the sinner from the wrath of the law under which he was born and lives. Your doctrine actually flies in the face of the evangelism and the power it possess to set the captives free, because you deny captivity. If Adam was justified then why did he hide and why do the children of Adam run...

Clavinist fight, Clavinist fight! Get the popcorn and hopefully they will cancel each other out.

Truster
May 5th, 2017, 07:40 AM
Clavinist fight, Clavinist fight! Get the popcorn and hopefully they will cancel each other out.

Try and watch your language.

Nanja
May 5th, 2017, 07:45 AM
Absolutely correct!

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TY Brother for this very enlightening and scripturally accurate thread.

Epoisses
May 5th, 2017, 12:18 PM
Try and watch your language.

My words are sanctified by the Spirit of grace as drops of dew and honey from the land of promise.

beloved57
May 15th, 2017, 02:51 PM
Eph 1:6 Accepted in the Beloved !

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

This verse speaks to Eternal Justification, or Justification from before the foundation. Its to the Praise of the Glory of Gods Grace that those Chosen in the Beloved before the foundation Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

That they were accepted in Him as Early.

To be accepted of God is inclusive of Justifciation. Its God bestowing His Divine Approval and Favor upon one in Christ. Thats why they are freely Justified by Grace Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Nanja
May 16th, 2017, 06:52 AM
Eph 1:6 Accepted in the Beloved !

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

This verse speaks to Eternal Justification, or Justification from before the foundation. Its to the Praise of the Glory of Gods Grace that those Chosen in the Beloved before the foundation Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

That they were accepted in Him as Early.

To be accepted of God is inclusive of Justifciation. Its God bestowing His Divine Approval and Favor upon one in Christ. Thats why they are freely Justified by Grace Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:



Amen! From Eternity the Elect were In Union with Christ, and were Accepted in Him, God's Beloved Son, and their Surety, to have forgiveness of sins according to the riches of His Grace Eph. 1:7. And so it had to be just as Early that they were Justified by His Blood in God's Sight Rev. 13:8; Rom. 5:9, as the sins they would commit in time were imputed to Christ Is. 53:6, and His Righteousness imputed to them Ps. 32:1-2. They were Saved according to God's Purpose and Grace given them in Christ before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9 .

beloved57
May 16th, 2017, 08:32 AM
Amen! From Eternity the Elect were In Union with Christ, and were Accepted in Him, God's Beloved Son, and their Surety, to have forgiveness of sins according to the riches of His Grace Eph. 1:7. And so it had to be just as Early that they were Justified by His Blood in God's Sight Rev. 13:8; Rom. 5:9, as the sins they would commit in time were imputed to Christ Is. 53:6, and His Righteousness imputed to them Ps. 32:1-2. They were Saved according to God's Purpose and Grace given them in Christ before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9 .
Amen Sister!

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beloved57
June 28th, 2017, 12:32 PM
Because in the Purpose of God Christ was slain for the sins of those whose names had been written in the Lambs Book of Life Rev 13:8

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Christ had been preappointed to be slain 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Hence, all the Chosen of God were Justified in Christ from the time of Christ's appointment to be their redeemer, He became their Surety, so that no sin of theirs would be charged to their account, but to His, and that's why He came on the earth, by Divine Appointment ! And this Justification is that Justification of Life Rom 5:18 because they're names are written in the Book of Life !

Nanja
June 28th, 2017, 03:52 PM
Because in the Purpose of God Christ was slain for the sins of those whose names had been written in the Lambs Book of Life Rev 13:8

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Christ had been preappointed to be slain 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Hence, all the Chosen of God were Justified in Christ from the time of Christ's appointment to be their redeemer, He became their Surety, so that no sin of theirs would be charged to their account, but to His, and that's why He came on the earth, by Divine Appointment ! And this Justification is that Justification of Life Rom 5:18 because they're names are written in the Book of Life !


Amen!

Christ was preappointed as Surety and Covenant Head of His Sheep, to be the Lamb Slain before the foundation of the world, which of course preceded God's Creation of Adam and all His Elect Seed he was originally Federal Head of, so that the sins they would ever commit in time were already imputed to Christ Ps. 103:12. Praise the Lord!

"Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile." Ps. 32:1-2

Is. 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Rom. 5:9-10
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Nanja
July 1st, 2017, 06:12 AM
Ps 50:21

21 These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.

Evil men, with corrupt minds, do blaspheme God, and think of God as one like himself, when in our thinking, they join what God has seperated in point and time, and that more specifically being His Eternal Justification of the Elect in His own Mind in Christ, due to His own innate Purpose within Himself, and then the declaring the Elect Justified in their own conscience in time. This is an willful confounding of Eternity with time, the Eternal with the temporal, the Creator with the creature.

For God in His Own Eternal Purpose, He did act immanently, Justifying the Elect in Christ within His Own Counsel from Everlasting, so from Everlasting He is their God Ps 90:1-2

Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.

Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God[In Covenant].

Thats why it is written of His Mercy Ps 103:17

17 But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

But this is different and opposed to when He would Justify them in their own persons and hearts in time.

If God does not in His own Mind consider the Elect Justified from Eternity by His Own immanent act, but not until the Elect in their own mind in time are Justified by God given Faith [The Faith of God's Elect Titus 1:1-2], then this would speak of an mutability in God, a Change from what His Mind was in Eternity towards His Elect, which would make God out to be as one of His creatures, and Eternity is governed by time. This is Blasphemy against God, and unless repentance is granted , those teaching such and believing such shall not go unpunished in Hell !

And everyone who disbelieves in the Eternal Justification of God's Elect are in serious peril of damnation !


Amen 100% !

beloved57
August 14th, 2018, 06:23 AM
Justified by Eternal Purpose in Christ before creation

This Truth will have many adversaries, but scripture supports the sacred notion. That from everlasting based upon Gods settled and immutable purpose in Christ Eph 3:11, that God would not charge nor punish sins in the persons of His Elect/Chosen in Christ before the foundation Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain [in purpose] from the foundation of the world.

See if Christ was in the purpose of God from the foundation for the sins of the elect, its reasonable to conclude that in Gods purpose the sins of the elect and their punishment had been charged to Christ, so it was never Gods purpose to punish the elect for the penalty of their sins, their law breaking in time, in Adam and themselves the penalty thereof was to be charged to Christ, hence their justification from all sin before the creation !

1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily[Christ] was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

He was foreordained before the foundation to be their redeeming Surety by His Blood ! Even then they were Justified by His Blood, which would be shed in time !

beloved57
August 14th, 2018, 07:08 AM
Justified by Eternal Purpose in Christ before creation

Thats why it can be said of the elect of God which cant be said of the non elect vessels of wrath 1 Thess 5:9-10

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,


10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

God could not have appointed them to wrath, that would have been contrary to the eternal purpose in Christ before creation, wherein Christ was already slain for their sins and Justified by His Blood.

Hence those Christ died for are not appointed to wrath as others !

Nanja
August 18th, 2018, 05:30 PM
Justified by Eternal Purpose in Christ before creation

Thats why it can be said of the elect of God which cant be said of the non elect vessels of wrath 1 Thess 5:9-10

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,


10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

God could not have appointed them to wrath, that would have been contrary to the eternal purpose in Christ before creation, wherein Christ was already slain for their sins and Justified by His Blood.

Hence those Christ died for are not appointed to wrath as others !




Amen to both parts !

God's Elect are His Vessels of Mercy Rom. 9:23, and were always completely exonerated, freed from all sin, even before being Created.

That is, in the Mind and Purpose and Decree of God, all the sins the Elect would commit in time were imputed to Christ the Lamb Rev. 13:8, and His Righteousness imputed to them: Decreed not guilty before God !

Psalm 32:1-2

1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Therefore, there never was a time when God's Elect were not Justified by the Blood of the Lamb according to God's Law and Justice:

The Lamb of God being slain in their behalf according to the Eternal Purpose of God before the foundation Eph. 3:11.

Rom. 5:9-10

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

1 Pet. 1:20
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

beloved57
August 18th, 2018, 10:46 PM
Gods Elect are Justified from everlasting simply as Gods Elect Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth

How long have they been God's Elect or Chosen? Since before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

beloved57
August 19th, 2018, 04:24 AM
And of course Justification from everlasting means without question Justification before faith, and while being ungodly Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

This scripture proves that God justified some while being ungodly !

Nanja
August 19th, 2018, 06:04 AM
Gods Elect are Justified from everlasting simply as Gods Elect Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth

How long have they been God's Elect or Chosen? Since before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:


Amen, God's Elect can never be called into account for any sin they have ever committed simply because none was ever laid to their charge, but was imputed to Christ their Surety Heb.7:22, and His Righteousness imputed to them before the world began, that's how long they have been Justified !

2 Tim. 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Nanja
August 19th, 2018, 06:10 AM
And of course Justification from everlasting means without question Justification before faith, and while being ungodly Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

This scripture proves that God justified some while being ungodly !



Absolutely, completely reconciled to God while being His enemies and believers !


Rom. 5:19

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

beloved57
September 1st, 2018, 08:52 AM
2 Tim 1:9

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Not only are the Elect of God Justified before God before the world began, by His Purpose and Grace, so are they saved before the world began by the same Purpose and Grace. Notice Paul wrote "who saved us, then called us"

Nanja
September 3rd, 2018, 06:22 AM
2 Tim 1:9

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Not only are the Elect of God Justified before God before the world began, by His Purpose and Grace, so are they saved before the world began by the same Purpose and Grace. Notice Paul wrote "who saved us, then called us"



Amen ! In the Mind and Purpose of God, Christ was set up as Surety Heb. 7:22 in the Everlasting Covenant of Grace, for all the Elect of God He had Chosen In Union with Christ to be holy and without blame before Him in Love, to have remission of sins and an Eternal Inheritance Eph. 1:4-11; the same ones which were Chosen to Salvation and Belief of the Truth 2 Thes. 2:13.

Prov. 8:22-23

22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

Ps. 84:11

For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.


Therefore, they were Justified from all sin before the World began: That is Eternally Saved before their Calling in time, and before their Faith that shall be given them in time when they are Born of the Spirit Gal. 5:22.

beloved57
September 3rd, 2018, 06:26 AM
nanja


That is Eternally Saved before their Calling in time, and before their Faith that shall be given them in time when they are Born of the Spirit Gal. 5:22 (https://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Gal.%205.22).

Amen, Bless you Sister !

Robert Pate
September 3rd, 2018, 07:06 AM
Ps 103:17

17But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

I do not think it will be argued that Justification by Faith is a very great mercy to experience in this life. This mercy was not just random or by chance , or by freewill, but was established as a sure mercy from everlasting. God, the everlasting God, Preached the gospel of Justification to Abraham centuries ago Gal 3:8

8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

which is referring to Gen 12:3

3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

But now what was the previous bases for this Mercy ? I believe it was the everlasting Covenant which is what Ps 103:17 is referring to, as the Mercy from everlasting.

I believe Jesus coming in the incarnation was a effect of that Covenant and why He is called the promised mercy.

Lk 1:67-73,77,78

67And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,


77To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

78Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us, !

So Christ coming to die for His People is the fruition of the everlasting covenant. His coming was an act of mercy, in that He would give himself, his soul an offering for sin, for the transgressions of God's People.



Justification is not something that just happens.

Before Abraham was justified he had to believe God. "Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness" Romans 4:3.

Abraham believed that God was going to provide him with a savior. In the Old Testament they were justified by faith in God's promise. Today we are justified the same way, BY FAITH.

beloved57
September 3rd, 2018, 07:19 AM
Justification is not something that just happens.

Before Abraham was justified he had to believe God. "Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness" Romans 4:3.

Abraham believed that God was going to provide him with a savior. In the Old Testament they were justified by faith in God's promise. Today we are justified the same way, BY FAITH.

I showed you the truth, and you have ignored it and started a rabbit trail !

Robert Pate
September 3rd, 2018, 07:44 AM
I showed you the truth, and you have ignored it and started a rabbit trail !


You don't have the truth.

The Bible plainly teaches that Abraham was justified by faith, Romans 4:3.

You reject God's word and replace it with John Calvins word.

beloved57
September 3rd, 2018, 07:48 AM
You don't have the truth.

The Bible plainly teaches that Abraham was justified by faith, Romans 4:3.

You reject God's word and replace it with John Calvins word.Continuing in your evasion and rabbit trail as usual

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

beloved57
November 21st, 2018, 01:17 PM
Justified before the foundation of the world because God hath chosen us [The elect] in Him as early Eph 1:3-4

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

And due to that, God made them accepted in Him as early Eph 1:6

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.


Which grace was given us in the beloved before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

And so if accepted in Him that early, then we were Justified in the beloved as early !

Nanja
November 21st, 2018, 04:40 PM
Justified before the foundation of the world because God hath chosen us [The elect] in Him as early Eph 1:3-4

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

And due to that, God made them accepted in Him as early Eph 1:6

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.


Which grace was given us in the beloved before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

And so if accepted in Him that early, then we were Justified in the beloved as early !


Amen Brother, the elect were Justified by God's Grace from Everlasting through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus Rom. 3:24.

For in God's Eternal Purpose Eph. 3:11 Christ was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world Rev. 13:8.