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Caino
July 5th, 2010, 10:17 AM
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/Colter/imagejpg1_zpseeb78417.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/Colter/media/imagejpg1_zpseeb78417.jpg.html)


Welcome everyone to the thread,

This space is dedicated to sharing and discussion of the Urantia Papers, or what formally came to be known in the public domain as the Urantia Book (UB), a large comprehensive tome of 196 Papers given to our planet in the early part of the 20th century by a group of celestial personalities, serving as the 5th epochal revelation to our planet 'Urantia' (Earth). The revelators used the highest concepts of knowledge among the archives of humanity at that time within the schools of science, religion, history and philosophy, expanding our conceptual frame-work of the universe and the purpose of creation in time and eternity, particularly explaining the ascension-program and eternal progression of souls in their journey towards divine perfection.


_wf21UbsdJ4



The volume is divided in 4 parts (online study edition indexed here (http://urantia-book.org/newbook/index.html)) -

1. The Central and Superuniverses

2. The Local Universe

3. History of Urantia (planet Earth)

4. The Life and Teachings of Jesus

~*~*~

These introductions below explain much more for those interested in discussing –

The UB – an introduction (http://www.urantiabook-intro.org/)

An introduction to the UB for Conservative Christians (http://www.urantiabook.org/introductions/urantia_christian_introduction.htm)


Urantia Book Differences From Traditional Christian Beliefs (http://www.urantiabook.org/introductions/urantia-book-differences.htm)

Truthbook Intro. (http://truthbook.com/urantia-book/urantia-book-introduction)

3-Part Video Introduction to the Urantia Book (http://urantia-association.org/introductions-to-the-urantia-book/video-introduction/)

Urantia Foundation Intro. (http://www.urantia.org/urantia-book)

UB Websites Directory (http://ubwebsites.com/)


~*~*~

Open, explorative and insightful discussion is encouraged here concerning the cosmology, philosophy, theology revealed in the papers,...their concepts, ideals, values, meanings within the contextual frames provided, whether one sees this work as 'inspired', truly 'revelatory' (more or less) or as religious science fiction or a tapestry of amalgamated influences from various sources,...no matter,....respectful and civil dialogue is encouraged, for those interested in the many subjects covered in this work.

Thank You.


~*~*~

chrysostom
July 5th, 2010, 10:55 AM
I am really happy to see this thread

WizardofOz
July 5th, 2010, 01:35 PM
See Introduction to the Urantia Papers (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14004).

freelight
July 5th, 2010, 02:32 PM
~*~*~




See Introduction to the Urantia Papers (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14004).


(Sorry readers, this older thread is no longer extant)


:)


Yes, the discussion above is our 'charter-thread' on the Urantia Papers, and an excellent resource of commentary and research sites for this epochal revelation to our world.


UB Fellowship (http://urantiabook.org/index.html)



pj

Caino
July 5th, 2010, 03:50 PM
I am really happy to see this thread
:)

Caino
July 5th, 2010, 04:01 PM
I hope to post daily thoughts from the UB to stimulate dialog as we have entered a new era of enlightenment.

I am a life long student of the book and come from a family of UB readers.

Caino

Charity
July 5th, 2010, 04:19 PM
Will That be chicken or Ham, MUFFALATTA OLIVE SALAD SANDWICHES:

Aimiel
July 6th, 2010, 06:31 AM
Urantia? This is: "Earth." :kookoo:

Urantia = pure bunk.

Aimiel
July 6th, 2010, 08:26 AM
Since it is a false 'gospel' it is accursed:

Galatians 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

We know the source of things that are accursed: hell. Here's a great source of information on a Biblical evaluation of the Book of Urantia: http://ubhoax.org/

Caino
July 6th, 2010, 08:35 AM
"All too long has man thought of God as one like himself. God is not, never was, and never will be jealous of man or any other being in the universe of universes. Knowing that the Creator Son intended man to be the masterpiece of the planetary creation, to be the ruler of all the earth, the sight of his being dominated by his own baser passions, the spectacle of his bowing down before idols of wood, stone, gold, and selfish ambition — these sordid scenes stir God and his Sons to be jealous for man, but never of him."

Man tends to create God in mans own image, he assumes that God must have the same emotions and feelings that man himself has. But men and women fail to consider the limitations of their own finite existence. The children of God grow in experience, God remains a constant.

Caino

Caino
July 6th, 2010, 08:38 AM
Urantia? This is: "Earth." :kookoo:

Urantia = pure bunk.

Aimiel, have you read the Urantia Book? If so, do you recall what the "religious authorites" said about Jesus ans his revelation?


Caino

Aimiel
July 6th, 2010, 08:44 AM
I'm not religious or a religious authority, in any form. I'm Christian, and we're set free from religious trappings, such as the bondage of the New Age movement.

I have not read it. One doesn't have to read fiction to recognize that it is fiction; or to recognize the foolishness of someone who's been duped by it and other similar fiction. The light that is in the Urantia Book is darkness, that much is clear.

Caino
July 6th, 2010, 09:25 AM
I'm not religious or a religious authority, in any form. I'm Christian, and we're set free from religious trappings, such as the bondage of the New Age movement.

I have not read it. One doesn't have to read fiction to recognize that it is fiction; or to recognize the foolishness of someone who's been duped by it and other similar fiction. The light that is in the Urantia Book is darkness, that much is clear.

Being a Christian then surely you must be familiar with those who rejected Jesus out of hand? You have the same narrow and close minded attitude of those who rejected Christ (demonstrating that you would have been no different in his day) using the same approach.

It’s telling and even fascinating how people have absolute and unquestioned faith in debunking books about books that they have not read. Aimiel, true to form you're like so many so called christians who claim the master by association but demonstrate so little of the spirit of his teachings. Go back to sleep.



Caino

chrysostom
July 6th, 2010, 09:29 AM
Aimiel, true to form you're like so many so called christians who claim the master by association but demonstrate so little of the spirit of his teachings. Go back to sleep.



Caino

I don't think anyone other than you knows anyone like him

Aimiel
July 6th, 2010, 09:35 AM
Being a Christian then surely you must be familiar with those who rejected Jesus out of hand? Yes, your spirit is very familiar to me, no matter the disguise.
You have the same narrow and close minded attitude of those who rejected Christ (demonstrating that you would have been no different in his day) using the same approach. That's simply not the case, having accepted, rather than rejected His Spirit and His Words, unlike yourself.
It’s telling and even fascinating how people have absolute and unquestioned faith in debunking books about books that they have not read. What's fascinating is how when one rejects The Gospel, one will swallow anything. :chuckle:
Aimiel, true to form you're like so many so called christians who claim the master by association but demonstrate so little of the spirit of his teachings. Go back to sleep.His Spirit is more than teachings, He is alive, and lives in me. One cannot easily slumber when The Living God directs one's steps and keeps your paths well-lit. It's clear from your obvious hatred of Christians (those who believe Jesus) that He isn't your 'master' but your pet word to make you look like one of His own. If you knew Him, you'd recognize His sheep.

Nick_A
July 6th, 2010, 09:44 AM
The Urantia Book asserts that God is the "trinity of trinities."

I have not read it but familiar with it enough to suspect where a lot of its ideas came from including this accurate IMO expression of the relationship between God and Creation.

Aimiel
July 6th, 2010, 09:47 AM
From UBHoax.org's website:

"Although The UB purports to be a revelation authored by altruistic, supermortal celestial beings hailing from distant planets and alternate time dimensions (14:1.4-6), it is instead a literary hoax perpetuated by one or more humans amidst the bustling hubris of early-to-mid-twentieth-century Chicago, USA. Though its stated purpose is to "expand cosmic consciousness and enhance spiritual perception" (0:0.2), The UB's apparent intent is to mimic celestial endorsement of a supposedly "new" and "improved" religious construct which is decidedly rooted in archaic ideas that are clearly aberrant and/or heretical from a historical Christian perspective. The primary target for which the UB "authors" claim is in need of "improvement" in the arena of religious thought is none other than the Bible, with all its "misconceptions" regarding the nature of God, who Jesus was, the need for and means of salvation, etc. As with Christianity, Jesus is of central importance to The UB. More than one third of the page count in the book is devoted to a retelling of the life of Jesus by way of a complete overhaul of the four New Testament Gospels. However, the "Jesus" you will meet in The UB is not the same Jesus who, according to the Bible, willingly died on the cross to save you and me from our sins. Ironic though it may seem, The UB interacts with the Bible a great deal and devotes much attention to reinventing the meaning of many concepts and facts presented in Scripture, to the detriment of the very source it so heavily relies on as its primary source of inspiration!"

Sounds like what just about every other cult there is does, 'mold' language to make their message seem like the 'real' truth. :chuckle:

Caino
July 6th, 2010, 09:48 AM
Yes, your spirit is very familiar to me, no matter the disguise.That's simply not the case, having accepted, rather than rejected His Spirit and His Words, unlike yourself.What's fascinating is how when one rejects The Gospel, one will swallow anything. :chuckle:His Spirit is more than teachings, He is alive, and lives in me. One cannot easily slumber when The Living God directs one's steps and keeps your paths well-lit. It's clear from your obvious hatred of Christians (those who believe Jesus) that He isn't your 'master' but your pet word to make you look like one of His own. If you knew Him, you'd recognize His sheep.

By your own admission you have not read the Urantia Book, so you have no idea if the voice of the shepherd is within it. It’s therefore difficult to take you seriously; you’re not reachable or teachable. Any opinion you may have about the entire life of Christ contained within this latest revelation is someone else’s opinion and not your own. Isn’t there an inquisition or witch burning somewhere that you should be attending?


Caino

CabinetMaker
July 6th, 2010, 09:51 AM
By your own admission you have not read the Urantia Book, so you have no idea if the voice of the shepherd is within it. It’s therefore difficult to take you seriously; you’re not reachable or teachable. Any opinion you may have about the entire life of Christ contained within this latest revelation is someone else’s opinion and not your own. Isn’t there an inquisition or witch burning somewhere that you should be attending?


CainoI haven't read the book and probably won't unless you con convince me it is worth reading. So answer this question for me and we'll see what happens.

Haw was this latest revelation conveyed to mankind?

Caino
July 6th, 2010, 09:52 AM
From UBHoax.org's website:

"Although The UB purports to be a revelation authored by altruistic, supermortal celestial beings hailing from distant planets and alternate time dimensions (14:1.4-6), it is instead a literary hoax perpetuated by one or more humans amidst the bustling hubris of early-to-mid-twentieth-century Chicago, USA. Though its stated purpose is to "expand cosmic consciousness and enhance spiritual perception" (0:0.2), The UB's apparent intent is to mimic celestial endorsement of a supposedly "new" and "improved" religious construct which is decidedly rooted in archaic ideas that are clearly aberrant and/or heretical from a historical Christian perspective. The primary target for which the UB "authors" claim is in need of "improvement" in the arena of religious thought is none other than the Bible, with all its "misconceptions" regarding the nature of God, who Jesus was, the need for and means of salvation, etc. As with Christianity, Jesus is of central importance to The UB. More than one third of the page count in the book is devoted to a retelling of the life of Jesus by way of a complete overhaul of the four New Testament Gospels. However, the "Jesus" you will meet in The UB is not the same Jesus who, according to the Bible, willingly died on the cross to save you and me from our sins. Ironic though it may seem, The UB interacts with the Bible a great deal and devotes much attention to reinventing the meaning of many concepts and facts presented in Scripture, to the detriment of the very source it so heavily relies on as its primary source of inspiration!"

Sounds like what just about every other cult there is does, 'mold' language to make their message seem like the 'real' truth. :chuckle:

Spoken like the members of the Sanhedrin.

Caino

Aimiel
July 6th, 2010, 09:54 AM
Thank you; coming from you, I consider that a compliment. :e4e:

Caino
July 6th, 2010, 10:08 AM
I haven't read the book and probably won't unless you con convince me it is worth reading. So answer this question for me and we'll see what happens.

Haw was this latest revelation conveyed to mankind?

Hi CabnetMaker,

No one knows or fully understands the technique by which the Urantia Papers came through the "sleeping subject" or "contact personality" between the years 1911-34...then printed in 55'. Those involved in the transactions between these celestial beings, through an otherwise ordinary and uninterested individual and the Forum in Chicago Illinois, they say that if they disclosed all that went on we would still be just as baffled. The identity of the personality through who the celestials spoke was kept secret as they did not want any "Paul" like reverence for the individual. His identity went to the grave, its the material itself that should be judged.


From the book:

Part IV
The Life and Teachings of Jesus

This group of papers was sponsored by a commission of twelve Urantia Midwayers acting under the supervision of a Melchizedek Revelatory Director. The basis of this narrative was supplied by a secondary Midwayer who was onetime assigned to the superhuman watchcare of the Apostle Andrew.
=
=
=

Paper 121

THE TIMES OF MICHAEL'S BESTOWAL

ACTING UNDER THE supervision of a commission of twelve members of the United Brotherhood of Urantia Midwayers, conjointly sponsored by the presiding head of our order and the Melchizedek of record, I am the secondary midwayer of onetime attachment to the Apostle Andrew, and I am authorized to place on record the narrative of the life transactions of Jesus of Nazareth as they were observed by my order of earth creatures, and as they were subsequently partially recorded by the human subject of my temporal guardianship. Knowing how his Master so scrupulously avoided leaving written records behind him, Andrew steadfastly refused to multiply copies of his written narrative. A similar attitude on the part of the other apostles of Jesus greatly delayed the writing of the Gospels.

=
=
=

12 [Acknowledgment: In carrying out my commission to restate the teachings and retell the doings of Jesus of Nazareth, I have drawn freely upon all sources of record and planetary information. My ruling motive has been to prepare a record which will not only be enlightening to the generation of men now living, but which may also be helpful to all future generations. From the vast store of information made available to me, I have chosen that which is best suited to the accomplishment of this purpose. As far as possible I have derived my information from purely human sources. Only when such sources failed, have I resorted to those records which are superhuman. When ideas and concepts of Jesus' life and teachings have been acceptably expressed by a human mind, I invariably gave preference to such apparently human thought patterns. Although I have sought to adjust the verbal expression the better to conform to our concept of the real meaning and the true import of the Master's life and teachings, as far as possible, I have adhered to the actual human concept and thought pattern in all my narratives. I well know that those concepts which have had origin in the human mind will prove more acceptable and helpful to all other human minds. When unable to find the necessary concepts in the human records or in human expressions, I have next resorted to the memory resources of my own order of earth creatures, the midwayers. And when that secondary source of information proved inadequate, I have unhesitatingly resorted to the superplanetary sources of information.

121:8.13 The memoranda which I have collected, and from which I have prepared this narrative of the life and teachings of Jesus—aside from the memory of the record of the Apostle Andrew—embrace thought gems and superior concepts of Jesus' teachings assembled from more than two thousand human beings who have lived on earth from the days of Jesus down to the time of the inditing of these revelations, more correctly restatements. The revelatory permission has been utilized only when the human record and human concepts failed to supply an adequate thought pattern. My revelatory commission forbade me to resort to extrahuman sources of either information or expression until such a time as I could testify that I had failed in my efforts to find the required conceptual expression in purely human sources.

121:8.14 While I, with the collaboration of my eleven associate fellow midwayers and under the supervision of the Melchizedek of record, have portrayed this narrative in accordance with my concept of its effective arrangement and in response to my choice of immediate expression, nevertheless, the majority of the ideas and even some of the effective expressions which I have thus utilized had their origin in the minds of the men of many races who have lived on earth during the intervening generations, right on down to those who are still alive at the time of this undertaking. In many ways I have served more as a collector and editor than as an original narrator. I have unhesitatingly appropriated those ideas and concepts, preferably human, which would enable me to create the most effective portraiture of Jesus' life, and which would qualify me to restate his matchless teachings in the most strikingly helpful and universally uplifting phraseology. In behalf of the Brotherhood of the United Midwayers of Urantia, I most gratefully acknowledge our indebtedness to all sources of record and concept which have been hereinafter utilized in the further elaboration of our restatement of Jesus' life on earth.]


Caino

Aimiel
July 6th, 2010, 10:11 AM
By your own admission you have not read the Urantia Book, so you have no idea if the voice of the shepherd is within it. Oh, but I do. It can't be, since it contradicts The Holy Scriptures, it contains only demonic doctrine. It throws out virtually every single sound doctrine of Christianity. The Shepherd isn't in it ANYWHERE.
It’s therefore difficult to take you seriously; you’re not reachable or teachable. Pure presumption.
Any opinion you may have about the entire life of Christ contained within this latest revelation is someone else’s opinion and not your own. ibid
Isn’t there an inquisition or witch burning somewhere that you should be attending?I have to sharpen my pitchfork, first. I've got plenty of oil for my torch, though, unlike yourself. :nono:

Aimiel
July 6th, 2010, 10:28 AM
From UBHoax.org's website:

The identity of the channeler was kept secret for many years by the Urantia Foundation. In fact, the board of directors took a pledge of secrecy not to reveal the human author or its means of transmission. However, in 1991 Martin Gardner identified the channeler as Wilfred Custer Kellogg, son of Rev. Charles Leonidis Sobeski Kellogg, a Seventh-day Adventist minister from Vermont. Wilfred was a shirttail relative of W. K. Kellogg, founder of the Kellogg's Cornflake Company, and also happened to be William Sadler's brother-in-law (the men had married two sisters).

Wilfred moved to Illinois when he married, and he and his wife lived for a time with Dr. and Mrs. Sadler. He was one of the founding members of the Urantia Foundation, and his home was half a block from the present headquarters of the Foundation in Chicago. He died in 1956.

The Adventist background of both Kellogg and Sadler does explain a few things. For example, it's a point of Adventist doctrine that Jesus is really Michael the Archangel.[3] Martin Gardner pointed out some other interesting parallels with Adventism, notably how the name of an Adventist friend of Kellogg, G. W. Amadon, appears as an important figure of the Urantia papers. Gardner's articles were published in the SKEPTICAL INQUIRER, Spring 1991, with significant corrections in the Fall 1991 issue. The Urantia Foundation officially has "no comment" on this matter. -- SOURCE ARTICLE (http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=823&Itemid=10)

Aimiel
July 6th, 2010, 11:02 AM
Here's the introduction to another Urantia de-bunking website:

Introduction

The Urantia Book, Urantia Foundation, Urantia Fellowship, and the Urantia three concentric circle symbol above (Banner of Michael) represent a modern-day Arian/Gnostic cult. Urantia followers reject the tenets of orthodox Christianity (particularly canonicity) and thus cannot be considered "Christian" by any traditional definition.

Arian - Arianism was a movement in the early church that believed God the Father alone was God, and that Jesus was a created being - i.e., not the eternal Son of God. The teaching was attributed to Arius of Alexandria. It was declared heretical at the Council of Nicea in A.D. 325, and again at the Council of Constantinople in A.D. 381.

Gnostic - The English word "Gnostic" comes from the Greek word gnosis, which means "knowledge". Gnosticism is an ancient religion which, while altering its appearance down through history, always claims access to special or secret knowledge based on extra-biblical revelations. The Urantia Book is the extra-biblical "fifth epochal revelation," supposedly picking up where the Bible leaves off. Rightly considered a dangerous heresy, several New Testament epistles (Colossians and 1, 2, & 3 John) contain warnings against Gnosticism. -- SOURCE ARTICLE (http://withchrist.org/urantia.htm)

Clearly, the Urantia Book isn't Christianity or anything closely resembling it. God sent His Son to give us Truth, and Satan can't do anything but try to make those Truths Jesus brought us into lies.

Caino
July 6th, 2010, 11:27 AM
Oh, but I do. It can't be, since it contradicts The Holy Scriptures, it contains only demonic doctrine. It throws out virtually every single sound doctrine of Christianity. The Shepherd isn't in it ANYWHERE.

smile....the "holy scriptures?"

4. THE TALK WITH NATHANIEL

159:4.1 And then went Jesus over to Abila, where Nathaniel and his associates labored. Nathaniel was much bothered by some of Jesus' pronouncements which seemed to detract from the authority of the recognized Hebrew scriptures. Accordingly, on this night, after the usual period of questions and answers, Nathaniel took Jesus away from the others and asked: "Master, could you trust me to know the truth about the Scriptures? I observe that you teach us only a portion of the sacred writings—the best as I view it—and I infer that you reject the teachings of the rabbis to the effect that the words of the law are the very words of God, having been with God in heaven even before the times of Abraham and Moses. What is the truth about the Scriptures?" When Jesus heard the question of his bewildered apostle, he answered:

159:4.2 "Nathaniel, you have rightly judged; I do not regard the Scriptures as do the rabbis. I will talk with you about this matter on condition that you do not relate these things to your brethren, who are not all prepared to receive this teaching. The words of the law of Moses and the teachings of the Scriptures were not in existence before Abraham. Only in recent times have the Scriptures been gathered together as we now have them. While they contain the best of the higher thoughts and longings of the Jewish people, they also contain much that is far from being representative of the character and teachings of the Father in heaven; wherefore must I choose from among the better teachings those truths which are to be gleaned for the gospel of the kingdom.

159:4.3"These writings are the work of men, some of them holy men, others not so holy. The teachings of these books represent the views and extent of enlightenment of the times in which they had their origin. As a revelation of truth, the last are more dependable than the first. The Scriptures are faulty and altogether human in origin, but mistake not, they do constitute the best collection of religious wisdom and spiritual truth to be found in all the world at this time.

159:4.4"Many of these books were not written by the persons whose names they bear, but that in no way detracts from the value of the truths which they contain. If the story of Jonah should not be a fact, even if Jonah had never lived, still would the profound truth of this narrative, the love of God for Nineveh and the so-called heathen, be none the less precious in the eyes of all those who love their fellow men. The Scriptures are sacred because they present the thoughts and acts of men who were searching for God, and who in these writings left on record their highest concepts of righteousness, truth, and holiness. The Scriptures contain much that is true, very much, but in the light of your present teaching, you know that these writings also contain much that is misrepresentative of the Father in heaven, the loving God I have come to reveal to all the worlds.

159:4.5 "Nathaniel, never permit yourself for one moment to believe the Scripture records which tell you that the God of love directed your forefathers to go forth in battle to slay all their enemies—men, women, and children. Such records are the words of men, not very holy men, and they are not the word of God. The Scriptures always have, and always will, reflect the intellectual, moral, and spiritual status of those who create them. Have you not noted that the concepts of Yahweh grow in beauty and glory as the prophets make their records from Samuel to Isaiah? And you should remember that the Scriptures are intended for religious instruction and spiritual guidance. They are not the works of either historians or philosophers.

159:4.6"The thing most deplorable is not merely this erroneous idea of the absolute perfection of the Scripture record and the infallibility of its teachings, but rather the confusing misinterpretation of these sacred writings by the tradition-enslaved scribes and Pharisees at Jerusalem. And now will they employ both the doctrine of the inspiration of the Scriptures and their misinterpretations thereof in their determined effort to withstand these newer teachings of the gospel of the kingdom. Nathaniel, never forget, the Father does not limit the revelation of truth to any one generation or to any one people. Many earnest seekers after the truth have been, and will continue to be, confused and disheartened by these doctrines of the perfection of the Scriptures.

159:4.7"The authority of truth is the very spirit that indwells its living manifestations, and not the dead words of the less illuminated and supposedly inspired men of another generation. And even if these holy men of old lived inspired and spirit-filled lives, that does not mean that their words were similarly spiritually inspired. Today we make no record of the teachings of this gospel of the kingdom lest, when I have gone, you speedily become divided up into sundry groups of truth contenders as a result of the diversity of your interpretation of my teachings. For this generation it is best that we live these truths while we shun the making of records.

159:4.8"Mark you well my words, Nathaniel, nothing which human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible. Through the mind of man divine truth may indeed shine forth, but always of relative purity and partial divinity. The creature may crave infallibility, but only the Creators possess it.

159:4.9"But the greatest error of the teaching about the Scripture is the doctrine of their being sealed books of mystery and wisdom which only the wise minds of the nation dare to interpret. The revelations of divine truth are not sealed except by human ignorance, bigotry, and narrow-minded intolerance. The light of the Scriptures is only dimmed by prejudice and darkened by superstition. A false fear of sacredness has prevented religion from being safeguarded by common sense. The fear of the authority of the sacred writings of the past effectively prevents the honest souls of today from accepting the new light of the gospel, the light which these very God-knowing men of another generation so intensely longed to see.

159:4.10"But the saddest feature of all is the fact that some of the teachers of the sanctity of this traditionalism know this very truth. They more or less fully understand these limitations of Scripture, but they are moral cowards, intellectually dishonest. They know the truth regarding the sacred writings, but they prefer to withhold such disturbing facts from the people. And thus do they pervert and distort the Scriptures, making them the guide to slavish details of the daily life and an authority in things nonspiritual instead of appealing to the sacred writings as the repository of the moral wisdom, religious inspiration, and the spiritual teaching of the God-knowing men of other generations."
159:4.11 Nathaniel was enlightened, and shocked, by the Master's pronouncement. He long pondered this talk in the depths of his soul, but he told no man concerning this conference until after Jesus' ascension; and even then he feared to impart the full story of the Master's instruction.

Caino
July 6th, 2010, 11:33 AM
"Shame on those false religious teachers who would drag hungry souls back into the dim and distant past and there leave them! And so are these unfortunate persons doomed to become frightened by every new discovery, while they are discomfited by every new revelation of truth. The prophet who said, “He will be kept in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on God,” was not a mere intellectual believer in authoritative theology. This truth-knowing human had discovered God; he was not merely talking about God."


Caino

Aimiel
July 6th, 2010, 11:41 AM
"God saw fit to put what He wanted us to cling to regarding eternal life into His Word. All the rest are just cheap imitations." -- Aimiel

There is nothing 'new' under the sun.

Ecclesiastes 1:9
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

The Scriptures represent what we need to know, and The Lord has put His Seal upon His book of Revelation. Adding to It adds the plagues written in It unto yourself.

Aimiel
July 6th, 2010, 11:45 AM
smile....the "holy scriptures?"

(also, Caino copied and pasted many words spoken by some dude named: "NotJesus.")NotJesus is a liar. Jesus' Words are Truth. :duh:

Caino
July 6th, 2010, 12:03 PM
"God saw fit to put what He wanted us to cling to regarding eternal life into His Word. All the rest are just cheap imitations." -- Aimiel

There is nothing 'new' under the sun.

Ecclesiastes 1:9
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

The Scriptures represent what we need to know, and The Lord has put His Seal upon His book of Revelation. Adding to It adds the plagues written in It unto yourself.




139.4.13 John was in prison several times and was banished to the Isle of Patmos for a period of four years until another emperor came to power in Rome. Had not John been tactful and sagacious, he would undoubtedly have been killed as was his more outspoken brother James. As the years passed, John, together with James the Lord’s brother, learned to practice wise conciliation when they appeared before the civil magistrates. They found that a “soft answer turns away wrath.” They also learned to represent the church as a “spiritual brotherhood devoted to the social service of mankind” rather than as “the kingdom of heaven.” They taught loving service rather than ruling power — kingdom and king.


139.4.14 When in temporary exile on Patmos, John wrote the Book of Revelation, which you now have in greatly abridged and distorted form. This Book of Revelation contains the surviving fragments of a great revelation, large portions of which were lost, other portions of which were removed, subsequent to John’s writing. It is preserved in only fragmentary and adulterated form.
=
=
=


Words eventually became fetishes, more especially those which were regarded as God's words; in this way the sacred books of many religions have become fetishistic prisons incarcerating the spiritual imagination of man. Moses' very effort against fetishes became a supreme fetish; his commandment was later used to stultify art and to retard the enjoyment and adoration of the beautiful.

88:2.7 In olden times the fetish word of authority was a fear-inspiring doctrine, the most terrible of all tyrants which enslave men. A doctrinal fetish will lead mortal man to betray himself into the clutches of bigotry, fanaticism, superstition, intolerance, and the most atrocious of barbarous cruelties. Modern respect for wisdom and truth is but the recent escape from the fetish-making tendency up to the higher levels of thinking and reasoning. Concerning the accumulated fetish writings which various religionists hold as sacred books, it is not only believed that what is in the book is true, but also that every truth is contained in the book. If one of these sacred books happens to speak of the earth as being flat, then, for long generations, otherwise sane men and women will refuse to accept positive evidence that the planet is round.

88:2.8 The practice of opening one of these sacred books to let the eye chance upon a passage, the following of which may determine important life decisions or projects, is nothing more nor less than arrant fetishism. To take an oath on a "holy book" or to swear by some object of supreme veneration is a form of refined fetishism.

88:2.9 But it does represent real evolutionary progress to advance from the fetish fear of a savage chief's fingernail trimmings to the adoration of a superb collection of letters, laws, legends, allegories, myths, poems, and chronicles which, after all, reflect the winnowed moral wisdom of many centuries, at least up to the time and event of their being assembled as a "sacred book."

88:2.10 To become fetishes, words had to be considered inspired, and the invocation of supposed divinely inspired writings led directly to the establishment of the authority of the church, while the evolution of civil forms led to the fruition of the authority of the state.


Caino

freelight
July 6th, 2010, 12:10 PM
The Urantia Book asserts that God is the "trinity of trinities."

I have not read it but familiar with it enough to suspect where a lot of its ideas came from including this accurate IMO expression of the relationship between God and Creation.

We expound on the Paradise Trinity Here (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1996019&postcount=133). - also that thread remains our 'charter-thread' on the Papers. It remains for the open-minded and spiritually-discerning to consider the entire revelation and context in its greater cosmic vision and pertinence to mans social and spiritual evolution. It is 'epochal' in its significance, among a few of the other greater streams of light pouring into the planet for its ultimate ascension.



pj

Traditio
July 6th, 2010, 12:13 PM
Joe: "Are you telling me I should come out of the closet now, Mr. Ron?"

L. Ron Hoover: "No my son! You must go into the closet..."

Joe: "What?"

L. Ron Hoover: "...And you will have...heh....a lot of fun! That's where they all live, so if you want an appliance to love you, you'll have to go in there and get you one."

Joe: "Well, that seems simple enough..."

L. Ron Hoover: "Yes, but if you want a really good one, you'll have to learn a foreign language."

Joe: "Like German, for instance?"

L. Ron Hoover: "That's right. A lot of really cute ones come from over there..."

Quoted from "A Token of My Extreme" by Frank Zappa. :noid:

Aimiel
July 6th, 2010, 12:56 PM
139.4.13 John was in prison...For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Your quote holds no truth in it, and doesn't make a case for Urantia being the least bit revelatory. It's not light, dude, it's pure darkness.

Caino
July 6th, 2010, 01:09 PM
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Your quote holds no truth in it, and doesn't make a case for Urantia being the least bit revelatory. It's not light, dude, it's pure darkness.

Dude, like totally, you need to read up on the masters teaching. Its obvious that you have not read the UB nor the Bible.

NIV

Whoever Is Not Against Us Is for Us

Mark 9:40

38"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."

39"Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40for whoever is not against us is for us.

41I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.


Caino

Aimiel
July 6th, 2010, 01:17 PM
Its obvious that you have not read the UB nor the Bible. Whoever Is Not Against Us Is for UsThe UB is against Jesus, The Bible, God and Christians. Obviously, you're against Jesus and The Bible, if you believe that demonic doctrines in the UB have anything at all to do with God. :duh:

Nick_A
July 6th, 2010, 01:18 PM
We expound on the Paradise Trinity Here (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1996019&postcount=133). - also that thread remains our 'charter-thread' on the Papers. It remains for the open-minded and spiritually-discerning to consider the entire revelation and context in its greater cosmic vision and pertinence to mans social and spiritual evolution. It is 'epochal' in its significance, among a few of the other greater streams of light pouring into the planet for its ultimate ascension.



pj

98% of rat poison is good corn. It is that 2% that does the job. I believe I know where some of these ideas came from especially this idea of relative trinities and the cosmology being referred to but I prefer the good old fashioned explanation.

As you know whenever I read of channeling the warning lights go off for me. A lot of it sounds good but it is that 2% that nails you.

Every created thing in the universe is a "middle." A middle is what connects "As above, so below." From this perspective the above is also a middle for a higher trinity and the below is a middle for a lower trinity. The universe is a vertical cosmological structure united through lawful "middles."

Aimiel
July 6th, 2010, 01:26 PM
It remains for the open-minded and spiritually-discerning to...It's exactly them: those who are spiritually discerning, who are warning you about the darkness you're possessed by. Your 'teachings' are not light, but DARKNESS!!!

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

freelight
July 6th, 2010, 01:31 PM
98% of rat poison is good corn. It is that 2% that does the job. I believe I know where some of these ideas came from especially this idea of relative trinities and the cosmology being referred to but I prefer the good old fashioned explanation.

As you know whenever I read of channeling the warning lights go off for me. A lot of it sounds good but it is that 2% that nails you.

Every created thing in the universe is a "middle." A middle is what connects "As above, so below." From this perspective the above is also a middle for a higher trinity and the below is a middle for a lower trinity. The universe is a vertical cosmological structure united through lawful "middles."

In Love there is no fear. All inspired writing is 'channeled' and subject to inspection :) - 'God' uses human vessels, minds and vehicles to share light, knowledge, truth according to man's capacity during whatever dispensation.


Life is a learning adventure and we are not alone in the Universe,



pj

Aimiel
July 6th, 2010, 01:38 PM
In Love there is no fear. If you're not afraid of death, you'll most likely fall off the nearest cliff. Fear is a necessary part of life.
All inspired writing is 'channeled' and subject to inspection God doesn't use 'channeling' to reach anyone. Channeling is a tool of the enemy.
'God' uses human vessels, minds and vehicles to share light, knowledge, truth according to man's capacity during whatever dispensation.He does so with His Presence, and never with the presence of a stranger speaking through a human. It just isn't done. God has never called upon anyone to channel anyone else. He speaks through prophecy, by His Spirit; but doesn't speak using witchcraft.
Life is a learning adventure and we are not alone in the Universe,If you don't repent, you may just get an opportunity to find out how alone and lonely an eternity of suffering the torment of outer darkness can be. Repent!!!

freelight
July 6th, 2010, 01:55 PM
If you're not afraid of death, you'll most likely fall off the nearest cliff. Fear is a necessary part of life.God doesn't use 'channeling' to reach anyone. Channeling is a tool of the enemy.He does so with His Presence, and never with the presence of a stranger speaking through a human. It just isn't done. God has never called upon anyone to channel anyone else. He speaks through prophecy, by His Spirit; but doesn't speak using witchcraft.If you don't repent, you may just get an opportunity to find out how alone and lonely an eternity of suffering the torment of outer darkness can be. Repent!!!

These typical knee-jerk reactions are infantile, reflecting more ignorance and religious egotism. Nothing new under the sun. Such ignorance dies hard, but can be remedied thru intellectual honesty, unbiased research and continued education. - until then, its the same ole song on 'repeat'.

'Repenting' is having another mind or changing one's mind towards a better path or higher way of thinking and being,....which only an open inquiring mind and interested spirit can assume, since it is always looking to learn more and expand consciousness. However, when the mind is shut and clogged with religious beliefs and dogmas, it is harder to break thru to the light, but it can be done.


pj

Aimiel
July 6th, 2010, 02:07 PM
These typical knee-jerk reactions are infantile, reflecting more ignorance and religious egotism. Your own infantile egotistical reactions out of religious darkness is pathetic, and would be knee-slapping funny, if your soul weren't in the balance, found wanting.
Nothing new under the sun. Amen.
Such ignorance dies hard, but can be remedied thru intellectual honesty, unbiased research and continued education. - until then, its the same ole song on 'repeat'. Yes, you're simply repeating the same lie that was first told in Eden: "Hath God said..." over and over. It gets old.
'Repenting' is having another mind or changing one's mind towards a better path or higher way of thinking and being,....which only an open inquiring mind and interested spirit can assume, since it is always looking to learn more and expand consciousness. However, when the mind is shut and clogged with religious beliefs and dogmas, it is harder to break thru to the light, but it can be done.No, it can't, you only puff yourself up with your vain ramblings, pretending to understand and represent Truths from The Word of God. One can only truly repent when God grants repentance. It is His Gift. He seems to have withheld it from you, probably due to your preference for childish ignorance. It's only when you recognize that your own works will never save you, and only The Blood of The Lamb can cleanse away your sin that you will have repentance. Wallowing in the mire, like you're doing, only makes you dirtier.

freelight
July 6th, 2010, 02:27 PM
Your own infantile egotistical reactions out of religious darkness is pathetic, and would be knee-slapping funny, if your soul weren't in the balance, found wanting.Amen.Yes, you're simply repeating the same lie that was first told in Eden: "Hath God said..." over and over. It gets old.No, it can't, you only puff yourself up with your vain ramblings, pretending to understand and represent Truths from The Word of God. One can only truly repent when God grants repentance. It is His Gift. He seems to have withheld it from you, probably due to your preference for childish ignorance. It's only when you recognize that your own works will never save you, and only The Blood of The Lamb can cleanse away your sin that you will have repentance. Wallowing in the mire, like you're doing, only makes you dirtier.


Back to ignore.

In respect to Caino and the thread's purpose will standby for assistance, as well on the older Urantia thread,.... holding court :)

Its liberating to know that Infinite Intelligence is so much greater than anything we can think or imagine, yet He inspires our imagination to reach for the stars.


In-joy!




pj

Charity
July 6th, 2010, 06:44 PM
Dude, like totally, you need to read up on the masters teaching. Its obvious that you have not read the UB nor the Bible.

NIV

Whoever Is Not Against Us Is for Us

Mark 9:40

38"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."

39"Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40for whoever is not against us is for us.

41I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.


Caino

10 out OF ten!! C smile

"but"! still, I sit there very concerned about Benny an his jet,
last time he came down under he took THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS home. .sack of wedding rings jewels, anything That wasn't bolted down secure at the time he marvels the creatures right out of their interlect, poor believers. An No One stops HIM!. lawlessness IS respected as the universal authority. that same authority will knee jerk anything that rises above its angels in bushes, chariots heading to heaven, blood rivers, flat earth to flood.

OMEGA
July 6th, 2010, 07:08 PM
CAINO-SOUP said
[ Only when there is no 'human' source to draw from do the alleged superhuman authors resort to their own information, and sometimes it is unexpected and bizarre information indeed. ]

Hey Torontonian, don't be a SUCKER for the Demon Hype.
I have studied all there diatribe and it is all BUNK , a mixture of half truths and Lies. So don't get suckered in to there Demonistic psycho-babel.

Satan has deceived the Whole World up until Christ comes again to bring Truth.
=================================================

fzappa13
July 6th, 2010, 08:14 PM
Joe: "Are you telling me I should come out of the closet now, Mr. Ron?"

L. Ron Hoover: "No my son! You must go into the closet..."

Joe: "What?"

L. Ron Hoover: "...And you will have...heh....a lot of fun! That's where they all have, so if you want an appliance to love you, you'll have to go in there and get you one."

Joe: "Well, that seems simple enough..."

L. Ron Hoover: "Yes, but if you want a really good one, you'll have to learn a foreign language."

Joe: "Like German, for instance?"

L. Ron Hoover: "That's right. A lot of really cute ones come from over there..."

Quoted from "A Token of My Extreme" by Frank Zappa. :noid:

Well ... you know I couldn't let that one go without a salute ... FZ had a special place in his heart for L. Ron Hubbard and it saw him weaving him in and out of one of my personal favorites amongst his musical efforts, "Joe's Garage".

... now where is my Telefunkin U47 ... with leather ...?

Nick_A
July 6th, 2010, 08:41 PM
In Love there is no fear. All inspired writing is 'channeled' and subject to inspection :) - 'God' uses human vessels, minds and vehicles to share light, knowledge, truth according to man's capacity during whatever dispensation.


Life is a learning adventure and we are not alone in the Universe,



pj

The Ways ask us to raise our quality of consciusness for the sake of "understanding." Channeling is just the resuts of higher impressions on the lower part of our collective presence and since the lower cannot understand the higher, everything becomes distorted as it must.

The degree of harm a person can do to themselves practicing channeling is directly proportional to how seriously they take it.

The smartest thing you can do is run from whatever is the result of channeling. It appears oh so wonderful but it does bite and believe me, you don't want to be bitten.

Charity
July 7th, 2010, 12:38 AM
Channeling... the confused2.. are we seed for the body, or the body given to the seed?


Our Belief is the core of being, We see things as we are, We don't seem to see things as possible any other way. (sown)
Jhn 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. (channeling)

the worlds longest war! every one that seems to suport Jesus must have him on their team. All seed feels the depth of emotions, his "saving grace" that confirms as evidence to stand firm while distressed at the differing truths that have comforted others that they are now sugesting you are the one serving another father. basic, an all round offensive.

freelight
July 7th, 2010, 03:23 AM
~*~*~


DKbg9HZJQto


In-joy......


pj

Caino
July 7th, 2010, 06:08 AM
THE GIFT OF REVELATION

Revelation is evolutionary but always progressive. Down through the ages of a world's history, the revelations of religion are ever-expanding and successively more enlightening. It is the mission of revelation to sort and censor the successive religions of evolution. But if revelation is to exalt and upstep the religions of evolution, then must such divine visitations portray teachings which are not too far removed from the thought and reactions of the age in which they are presented. Thus must and does revelation always keep in touch with evolution. Always must the religion of revelation be limited by man's capacity of receptivity.

But regardless of apparent connection or derivation, the religions of revelation are always characterized by a belief in some Deity of final value and in some concept of the survival of personality identity after death.

Evolutionary religion is sentimental, not logical. It is man's reaction to belief in a hypothetical ghost-spirit world—the human belief-reflex, excited by the realization and fear of the unknown. Revelatory religion is propounded by the real spiritual world; it is the response of the superintellectual cosmos to the mortal hunger to believe in, and depend upon, the universal Deities. Evolutionary religion pictures the circuitous gropings of humanity in quest of truth; revelatory religion is that very truth.

There have been many events of religious revelation but only five of epochal significance. These were as follows:

[500,000 BC "The prince of this world" arrived.

200,000 BC The prince fell into sin lead by his superior, a local universe administrator Lucifer along with his assistent Satan. ]
Caino


The Dalamatian teachings. The true concept of the First Source and Center was first promulgated on Urantia by the one hundred corporeal members of Prince Caligastia's staff. This expanding revelation of Deity went on for more than three hundred thousand years until it was suddenly terminated by the planetary secession and the disruption of the teaching regime. Except for the work of Van, the influence of the Dalamatian revelation was practically lost to the whole world. Even the Nodites had forgotten this truth by the time of Adam's arrival. Of all who received the teachings of the one hundred, the red men held them longest, but the idea of the Great Spirit was but a hazy concept in Amerindian religion when contact with Christianity greatly clarified and strengthened it.

[37,924 years ago]

The Edenic teachings. Adam and Eve again portrayed the concept of the Father of all to the evolutionary peoples. The disruption of the first Eden halted the course of the Adamic revelation before it had ever fully started. But the aborted teachings of Adam were carried on by the Sethite priests, and some of these truths have never been entirely lost to the world. The entire trend of Levantine religious evolution was modified by the teachings of the Sethites. But by 2500 B.C. mankind had largely lost sight of the revelation sponsored in the days of Eden.

[3,983years ago]

Melchizedek of Salem. This emergency Son of Nebadon inaugurated the third revelation of truth on Urantia. The cardinal precepts of his teachings were trust and faith. He taught trust in the omnipotent beneficence of God and proclaimed that faith was the act by which men earned God's favor. His teachings gradually commingled with the beliefs and practices of various evolutionary religions and finally developed into those theologic systems present on Urantia at the opening of the first millennium after Christ.

[2,017years ago]

Jesus of Nazareth. Christ Michael presented for the fourth time to Urantia the concept of God as the Universal Father, and this teaching has generally persisted ever since. The essence of his teaching was love and service, the loving worship which a creature son voluntarily gives in recognition of, and response to, the loving ministry of God his Father; the freewill service which such creature sons bestow upon their brethren in the joyous realization that in this service they are likewise serving God the Father.

[1911-34...printed 55']

The Urantia Papers. The papers, of which this is one, constitute the most recent presentation of truth to the mortals of Urantia. These papers differ from all previous revelations, for they are not the work of a single universe personality but a composite presentation by many beings. But no revelation short of the attainment of the Universal Father can ever be complete. All other celestial ministrations are no more than partial, transient, and practically adapted to local conditions in time and space. While such admissions as this may possibly detract from the immediate force and authority of all revelations, the time has arrived on Urantia when it is advisable to make such frank statements, even at the risk of weakening the future influence and authority of this, the most recent of the revelations of truth to the mortal races of Urantia.


Caino

Aimiel
July 7th, 2010, 06:13 AM
Its liberating to know that Infinite Intelligence is so much greater than anything we can think or imagine, yet He inspires our imagination to reach for the stars.It's even more liberating to know The One Who knows everything personally, and to be freed from sin. :thumb:

Caino
July 7th, 2010, 06:18 AM
10 out OF ten!! C smile

"but"! still, I sit there very concerned about Benny an his jet,
last time he came down under he took THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS home. .sack of wedding rings jewels, anything That wasn't bolted down secure at the time he marvels the creatures right out of their interlect, poor believers. An No One stops HIM!. lawlessness IS respected as the universal authority. that same authority will knee jerk anything that rises above its angels in bushes, chariots heading to heaven, blood rivers, flat earth to flood.

If "Benny" was forbidden to peddle his goods then more might be lost as they would suspect fraud by the very authorities tasked to obstruct his freedom to make a fool of himself! Lucifer was allowed to rebel, Gods wisdom will eventually prove why.

Caino

Aimiel
July 7th, 2010, 06:18 AM
THE GIFT OF REVELATION

Revelation is evolutionary but always progressive.God has revealed His Son, Who makes it possible to have a relationship with God again, which lasts forever. The UB is false teaching and poison for your mind, designed to lull you to sleep on your way to hell. God wants you to wake up and turn around 180° and start heading for Heaven. He reveals His Truth to everyone (all who will listen).

Charity
July 7th, 2010, 07:15 AM
If "Benny" was forbidden to peddle his goods then more might be lost as they would suspect fraud by the very authorities tasked to obstruct his freedom to make a fool of himself! Lucifer was allowed to rebel, Gods wisdom will eventually prove why.

Caino



SMILE
"The greatest remedy for anger is delay." or anger is a cause for delay? Lucifers will eventually prove why God is wise?

Caino
July 7th, 2010, 10:20 AM
SMILE
"The greatest remedy for anger is delay." or anger is a cause for delay? Lucifers will eventually prove why God is wise?

"The very fact that an evil-doing creature can actually choose to do wrong—commit sin—establishes the fact of free-willness and fully justifies any length delay in the execution of justice provided the extended mercy might conduce to repentance and rehabilitation."

If Benny knows he's a fraud then our loving and merciful God will afford him time to repent.


Caino

OMEGA
July 7th, 2010, 10:45 AM
CAINO-WORMS :singer:

YOU ARE IN THE DEPTHS OF SATAN THE DECEIVER:devil:


Re 2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira,

as many as have not this doctrine,

and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak;:devil:

I will put upon you none other burden.
==============================

Caino
July 7th, 2010, 11:46 AM
CAINO-WORMS :singer:

YOU ARE IN THE DEPTHS OF SATAN THE DECEIVER:devil:


Re 2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira,

as many as have not this doctrine,

and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak;:devil:

I will put upon you none other burden.
==============================

Satan is a cigar butt! He's gone; he was defeated by Christ and even then had not the power to invade the sanctity of men and women lest they were mentally unstable to begin with.

No, today people blame their own selfish hearts, their own instincts gone awry; they blame this imaginary devil figure for their own behavior.

OMEGA, put away the Halloween costume, stop trying to scare little children with all the crap taught by false preachers (who have nothing better to teach other then fear of an imaginary Hell), men who are very sick inside and attracted to the ego feeding position of a so called "preacher".



Caino

Aimiel
July 7th, 2010, 11:52 AM
Just another version of the first lie, "Hath God said...?" You're just like your father, Caino. :devil:

Aimiel
July 7th, 2010, 12:16 PM
While I can't endorse the obvious plagiarism that the title of this thread holds; I can't help but agree with the sentiment: the Great Urantia Revelation is dead. :thumb:

Hal Lindsay's book, "The Late Great Planet Earth," holds far more truth than any Urantia book ever has, but that's not saying much for Hal, since a one-sentence paragraph has the capacity for holding more truth than UB.

Caino
July 7th, 2010, 12:35 PM
"But the spies did not have long to wait for their opportunity to accuse Jesus and his associates of Sabbath breaking. As the company passed along the narrow road, the waving wheat, which was just then ripening, was near at hand on either side, and some of the apostles, being hungry, plucked the ripe grain and ate it. It was customary for travelers to help themselves to grain as they passed along the road, and therefore no thought of wrongdoing was attached to such conduct. But the spies seized upon this as a pretext for assailing Jesus. When they saw Andrew rub the grain in his hand, they went up to him and said: "Do you not know that it is unlawful to pluck and rub the grain on the Sabbath day?" And Andrew answered: "But we are hungry and rub only sufficient for our needs; and since when did it become sinful to eat grain on the Sabbath day?" But the Pharisees answered: "You do no wrong in eating, but you do break the law in plucking and rubbing out the grain between your hands; surely your Master would not approve of such acts." Then said Andrew: "But if it is not wrong to eat the grain, surely the rubbing out between our hands is hardly more work than the chewing of the grain, which you allow; wherefore do you quibble over such trifles?" When Andrew intimated that they were quibblers, they were indignant, and rushing back to where Jesus walked along, talking to Matthew, they protested, saying: "Behold, Teacher, your apostles do that which is unlawful on the Sabbath day; they pluck, rub, and eat the grain. We are sure you will command them to cease." And then said Jesus to the accusers: "You are indeed zealous for the law, and you do well to remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy; but did you never read in the Scripture that, one day when David was hungry, he and they who were with him entered the house of God and ate the showbread, which it was not lawful for anyone to eat save the priests? and David also gave this bread to those who were with him. And have you not read in our law that it is lawful to do many needful things on the Sabbath day? And shall I not, before the day is finished, see you eat that which you have brought along for the needs of this day? My good men, you do well to be zealous for the Sabbath, but you would do better to guard the health and well-being of your fellows. I declare that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. And if you are here present with us to watch my words, then will I openly proclaim that the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath."

The Pharisees were astonished and confounded by his words of discernment and wisdom. For the remainder of the day they kept by themselves and dared not ask any more questions. " UB


Caino

freelight
July 7th, 2010, 12:37 PM
YOU ARE IN THE DEPTHS OF SATAN THE DECEIVER:devil:




You are apparently quite 'ignorant' of the content, vision, purpose and context of the Urantia Papers. Such ignorance is unnecessary, especially when ample has been provided for one to do their own research and reading of the Papers themselves. Educate yourself.

The Urantia Book Fellowship (http://urantiabook.org/index.html)

UB related websites (http://www.ubwebsites.com/)



pj

Aimiel
July 7th, 2010, 12:47 PM
You are apparently quite 'ignorant' of the content, vision, purpose and context of the Urantia Papers. Such ignorance is unnecessary, especially when ample has been provided for one to do their own research and reading of the Papers themselves. Educate yourself.Anyone who simply reads The Bible through once could be far better educated than yourself.

2 Timothy 4:1-4

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Your 'education' is only in the realm of fables. You're walking in complete darkness, and calling it: "Light." :duh:

Seriously, you should be reading Squeaky's threads. No one takes him seriously, because he's invented all types of new imaginary doctrine based on his 'revelations' from God. They're all pure fiction; but you could follow him, along with all your other false religions. They're all fictitious. What difference does it make? :idunno:

Nick_A
July 7th, 2010, 12:50 PM
You are apparently quite 'ignorant' of the content, vision, purpose and context of the Urantia Papers. Such ignorance is unnecessary, especially when ample has been provided for one to do their own research and reading of the Papers themselves. Educate yourself.

The Urantia Book Fellowship (http://urantiabook.org/index.html)

UB related websites (http://www.ubwebsites.com/)



pj

Rudolph Steiner would disagree with you. Though I'm not an Anthropoligist, Steiner often makes a lot of sense.

He divided Satan into Lucifer and Ahriman. Where Lucifer pulls man into imagination, Ahriman pulls Man into materialism. The Christ influence is the reality between them that balances Man's quality of being allowing man to reach his "being" potential.

From what I know of UB it is Luciferic like a lot of New Age thought. In other words, though it has truth in it, its attraction just increases man's imagination at the expense of Man's potential for consciousness which begins with the recognition of man's nothingness as the "wretched man."

freelight
July 7th, 2010, 01:37 PM
From what I know of UB it is Luciferic like a lot of New Age thought.

Perhaps you would need to read the Papers themselves to get a better understanding instead of presuming.

The 'Lucifer Rebellion' is explained in great detail actually, the psychology involved and the great restorative work towards man unfolding his true potential. The entire revelation has the premise of man's progressive evolutionary ascent towards divine perfect as the Master instructed - "be ye perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect (thru love)".


In other words, though it has truth in it, its attraction just increases man's imagination at the expense of Man's potential for consciousness which begins with the recognition of man's nothingness as the "wretched man."

The Papers speak for themselves, plus ample extensions of Jesus teachings paraphrased and expanded in Part 4.

Concepts of self-pity and loathing as a "wrethed man", engrossed from teachings of 'original sin', depravity, etc. do not necessarily elevate or uplift the consciousness of man, but further degrade him when these concepts are further complicated by ignorant theology.
Also, the Papers do not accept the primitive ideas of 'vicarious atonement' or 'redemption thru the shedding of blood' to merit God's loving favor, since the Father is Love itself, providing salvation for all who will do His will, and enter into that grace-provision by faith and progressive knowledge.

Atonement without blood (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42351)





pj

Caino
July 7th, 2010, 01:44 PM
Jesus was Liberal and quite "new age" for his time.

The people who sought to stop Jesus and thought they had killed him and his message made the same satanic accusations.

NIV

22Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. 23All the people were astonished and said, "Could this be the Son of David?"

24But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub,[d] the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."

25Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Caino

Traditio
July 7th, 2010, 01:54 PM
At FZ: Every time I come across a weird, crazy belief like the above, I always think of that particular song. :noid:

Aimiel
July 7th, 2010, 01:56 PM
Jesus was Liberal and quite "new age" for his time.Indeed, He was, but your so-called New Age movement, and especially the Urantia Book, are incredibly OLD AGE. They're the same lie that was told in the garden at Eden, re-decorated. "Hath God said..." doesn't work today any more than it did then... it's still a lie.
The people who sought to stop Jesus and thought they had killed him and his message made the same satanic accusations.But the souce of Jesus' Words was Heaven, unlike the UB, which contradicts The Words The Lord spoke. Trying to get you to realize that demons brought us the UB by the witchcraft of Mr. Kellogg. Hello. :wave2:

Nick_A
July 7th, 2010, 01:56 PM
Perhaps you would need to read the Papers themselves to get a better understanding instead of presuming.

The 'Lucifer Rebellion' is explained in great detail actually, the psychology involved and the great restorative work towards man unfolding his true potential. The entire revelation has the premise of man's progressive evolutionary ascent towards divine perfect as the Master instructed - "be ye perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect (thru love)".



The Papers speak for themselves, plus ample extensions of Jesus teachings paraphrased and expanded in Part 4.

Concepts of self-pity and loathing as a "wrethed man", engrossed from teachings of 'original sin', depravity, etc. do not necessarily elevate or uplift the consciousness of man, but further degrade him when these concepts are further complicated by ignorant theology.
Also, the Papers do not accept the primitive ideas of 'vicarious atonement' or 'redemption thru the shedding of blood' to merit God's loving favor, since the Father is Love itself, providing salvation for all who will do His will, and enter into that grace-provision by faith and progressive knowledge.

Atonement without blood (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42351)





pj

Recognition of oneself as the "wretched man" is neither a reflection of self loathing or self pity but just the experiential recognition of the human condition within oneself.

If a person wants to play piano because they are attracted to the music, they don't hate themselves because they can't play but rather accept the fact that they cannot and begin to practice.

Where a person can hear that they cnnot play, we lack the consciousness necessary to reveal both the human condition and human potential

"Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace

We lack the inner unity to participate in Man's calling for conscious evolution and the conscious attention to develop it so instead prefer imagination.

Traditio
July 7th, 2010, 01:57 PM
If a person wants to play piano because they are attracted to the music...

Bad word choice. :eek:

freelight
July 7th, 2010, 02:30 PM
~*~*~

WyKSE9ZdtCc

UBtheNEWS (http://www.ubthenews.com/) keeps up on correlating science and latest discoveries confirming aspects of the revelation as they appear in time. The UB's cosmology is primarily one of 'theistic evolution' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution).



pj

Aimiel
July 7th, 2010, 02:31 PM
Theistic evolution. :rotfl:

fzappa13
July 7th, 2010, 08:45 PM
At FZ: Every time I come across a weird, crazy belief like the above, I always think of that particular song. :noid:

... and well you should ... that was the point and purpose of the song. I mean, have you studied Scientology?

:dizzy:

Memento Mori
July 8th, 2010, 02:12 AM
... and well you should ... that was the point and purpose of the song. I mean, have you studied Scientology?

:dizzy:

Is he broke, dead, and brainwashed? If not then he hasn't "studied" Scientology. But for the sake of hilarity:

T7EEOMbBIO8

Charity
July 8th, 2010, 02:32 AM
"sanguine" Adam!...

Here in Aussie apples are seasonal
Feb March April & May,
leaving the rest of the year free from temptation!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTACNNs3b5U&feature=player_embedded

Caino
July 8th, 2010, 06:51 AM
Hi Charity,

Pack a small snack and take some time to consider the UB explanation for how and why the convoluted Genesis account remains as the so called "word of God".

The creation story in Genesis, fact and fiction.


Adam and Eve, a material son and daughter arrived on our previously populated, evolved planet roughly 40,000 years ago.

* The beast was already present and had already embraced evil, he worked against Gods plan for Adam and Eve.

* Adam and Eve were full grown, educated in Gods mandate and spoke the same language as the Beast.

* Proof that the earth was previously populated can be found in Genesis itself; Cain finds a wife in the "land of Nod" (Nodidtes) as well as a city. Cain is also given a mark (spiritual rebirth) "lest anyone who find him kill him"

Caino


74.8.9 The Hebrews had no written language in general usage for a long time after they reached Palestine. They learned the use of an alphabet from the neighboring Philistines, who were political refugees from the higher civilization of Crete. The Hebrews did little writing until about 900 B.C., and having no written language until such a late date, they had several different stories of creation in circulation, but after the Babylonian captivity they inclined more toward accepting a modified Mesopotamian version.

8. THE LEGEND OF CREATION

74:8.1 The story of the creation of Urantia in six days was based on the tradition that Adam and Eve had spent just six days in their initial survey of the Garden. This circumstance lent almost sacred sanction to the time period of the week, which had been originally introduced by the Dalamatians. Adam's spending six days inspecting the Garden and formulating preliminary plans for organization was not prearranged; it was worked out from day to day. The choosing of the seventh day for worship was wholly incidental to the facts herewith narrated.

74:8.2 The legend of the making of the world in six days was an afterthought, in fact, more than thirty thousand years afterwards. One feature of the narrative, the sudden appearance of the sun and moon, may have taken origin in the traditions of the onetime sudden emergence of the world from a dense space cloud of minute matter which had long obscured both sun and moon.

74:8.3 The story of creating Eve out of Adam's rib is a confused condensation of the Adamic arrival and the celestial surgery connected with the interchange of living substances associated with the coming of the corporeal staff of the Planetary Prince more than four hundred and fifty thousand years previously.

74:8.4 The majority of the world's peoples have been influenced by the tradition that Adam and Eve had physical forms created for them upon their arrival on Urantia. The belief in man's having been created from clay was well-nigh universal in the Eastern Hemisphere; this tradition can be traced from the Philippine Islands around the world to Africa. And many groups accepted this story of man's clay origin by some form of special creation in the place of the earlier beliefs in progressive creation—evolution.

74:8.5 Away from the influences of Dalamatia and Eden, mankind tended toward the belief in the gradual ascent of the human race. The fact of evolution is not a modern discovery; the ancients understood the slow and evolutionary character of human progress. The early Greeks had clear ideas of this despite their proximity to Mesopotamia. Although the various races of earth became sadly mixed up in their notions of evolution, nevertheless, many of the primitive tribes believed and taught that they were the descendants of various animals. Primitive peoples made a practice of selecting for their "totems" the animals of their supposed ancestry. Certain North American Indian tribes believed they originated from beavers and coyotes. Certain African tribes teach that they are descended from the hyena, a Malay tribe from the lemur, a New Guinea group from the parrot.

74:8.6 The Babylonians, because of immediate contact with the remnants of the civilization of the Adamites, enlarged and embellished the story of man's creation; they taught that he had descended directly from the gods. They held to an aristocratic origin for the race which was incompatible with even the doctrine of creation out of clay.

74:8.7 The Old Testament account of creation dates from long after the time of Moses; he never taught the Hebrews such a distorted story. But he did present a simple and condensed narrative of creation to the Israelite, hoping thereby to augment his appeal to worship the Creator, the Universal Father, whom he called the Lord God of Israel.

74:8.8 In his early teachings, Moses very wisely did not attempt to go back of Adam's time, and since Moses was the supreme teacher of the Hebrews, the stories of Adam became intimately associated with those of creation. That the earlier traditions recognized pre-Adamic civilization is clearly shown by the fact that later editors, intending to eradicate all reference to human affairs before Adam's time, neglected to remove the telltale reference to Cain's emigration to the "land of Nod," where he took himself a wife.

74:8.9 The Hebrews had no written language in general usage for a long time after they reached Palestine. They learned the use of an alphabet from the neighboring Philistines, who were political refugees from the higher civilization of Crete. The Hebrews did little writing until about 900 B.C., and having no written language until such a late date, they had several different stories of creation in circulation, but after the Babylonian captivity they inclined more toward accepting a modified Mesopotamian version.

74:8.10 Jewish tradition became crystallized about Moses, and because he endeavored to trace the lineage of Abraham back to Adam, the Jews assumed that Adam was the first of all mankind. Yahweh was the creator, and since Adam was supposed to be the first man, he must have made the world just prior to making Adam. And then the tradition of Adam's six days got woven into the story, with the result that almost a thousand years after Moses' sojourn on earth the tradition of creation in six days was written out and subsequently credited to him.

74:8.11 When the Jewish priests returned to Jerusalem, they had already completed the writing of their narrative of the beginning of things. Soon they made claims that this recital was a recently discovered story of creation written by Moses. But the contemporary Hebrews of around 500 B.C. did not consider these writings to be divine revelations; they looked upon them much as later peoples regard mythological narratives.

74:8.12 This spurious document, reputed to be the teachings of Moses, was brought to the attention of Ptolemy, the Greek king of Egypt, who had it translated into Greek by a commission of seventy scholars for his new library at Alexandria. And so this account found its place among those writings which subsequently became a part of the later collections of the "sacred scriptures" of the Hebrew and Christian religions. And through identification with these theological systems, such concepts for a long time profoundly influenced the philosophy of many Occidental peoples.

74:8.13 The Christian teachers perpetuated the belief in the fiat creation of the human race, and all this led directly to the formation of the hypothesis of a onetime golden age of utopian bliss and the theory of the fall of man or superman which accounted for the nonutopian condition of society. These outlooks on life and man's place in the universe were at best discouraging since they were predicated upon a belief in retrogression rather than progression, as well as implying a vengeful Deity, who had vented wrath upon the human race in retribution for the errors of certain onetime planetary administrators.

74:8.14 The "golden age" is a myth, but Eden was a fact, and the Garden civilization was actually overthrown. Adam and Eve carried on in the Garden for one hundred and seventeen years when, through the impatience of Eve and the errors of judgment of Adam, they presumed to turn aside from the ordained way, speedily bringing disaster upon themselves and ruinous retardation upon the developmental progression of all Urantia.



74.8.11 When the Jewish priests returned to Jerusalem, they had already completed the writing of their narrative of the beginning of things. Soon they made claims that this recital was a recently discovered story of creation written by Moses. But the contemporary Hebrews of around 500 B.C. did not consider these writings to be divine revelations; they looked upon them much as later peoples regard mythological narratives.
Urantia Book

Caino
July 8th, 2010, 07:55 AM
Freelight, good stuff dude!


C

freelight
July 8th, 2010, 01:31 PM
74.8.11 When the Jewish priests returned to Jerusalem, they had already completed the writing of their narrative of the beginning of things. Soon they made claims that this recital was a recently discovered story of creation written by Moses. But the contemporary Hebrews of around 500 B.C. did not consider these writings to be divine revelations; they looked upon them much as later peoples regard mythological narratives.
Urantia Book


Genesis is a wonderful book, and even if the creation account is a mythological narrative, hidden truths and insights can be found in such analogies. The celestials who gave us the Urantia Papers draw from their knowledge-record of things, but what is most important with the scriptures of our major religious traditions is the spiritual truth they contain within their given dispensations.

If anyone is serious about reading the Papers, begin with the foreward and Paper 1 (Part 1) on the nature of God (most essential) and the central and superuniverses...this will prepare the student with a precursory knowledge/background to proceed with the rest.


Personality

Two noteworthy subjects the Papers expound upon is the 'personality' of 'God', and/or 'personality' itself, in its constitution and complexity. I consider the personal aspects of 'God'(among his more transpersonal aspects) Here (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56080).... with Ben Masada's 'jewish' viewpoint. The Papers brings special significance to 'personality' and its eternal survival.

The Universal Father (http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p001.htm) (see especially last 3 sections on 'personality')


Thought Adjuster

Another important teaching is about the 'Thought Adjuster' (or 'mystery monitor', 'Father-fragment)..which is actually a fragment of 'God' within the mind/soul of man, a pre-personal spirit-essence which is a gift of the Father to the evolving mortals of time. As the soul progresses in its development in doing the will of God... the soul and the 'thought adjuster' fuse (become one) ensuring the soul's eternal survival into the ages to come. We have a fragment of infinity/eternity within us! - much is expounded on this inner 'spirit-pilot' if you will, but much is also mysterious.

Origin and nature of Thought Adjusters (http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p107.htm)

~*~*~

The future is always bright, for the plan and purpose of the Universal Father carries its momentum undergirding all creation and its directives...even with the temporay delays of free will choice,...the ultimacy of 'God' prevails.


In Spiritus,



pj

Caino
July 9th, 2010, 04:52 AM
"On this visit occurred one of those periodic outbreaks of rebellion against tradition—the expression of resentment for those ceremonial practices which Jesus deemed misrepresentative of his Father in heaven. Not knowing Jesus was coming, Lazarus had arranged to celebrate the Passover with friends in an adjoining village down the Jericho road. Jesus now proposed that they celebrate the feast where they were, at Lazarus's house. "But," said Lazarus, "we have no paschal lamb." And then Jesus entered upon a prolonged and convincing dissertation to the effect that the Father in heaven was not truly concerned with such childlike and meaningless rituals. After solemn and fervent prayer they rose, and Jesus said: "Let the childlike and darkened minds of my people serve their God as Moses directed; it is better that they do, but let us who have seen the light of life no longer approach our Father by the darkness of death. Let us be free in the knowledge of the truth of our Father's eternal love."


Caino

Aimiel
July 9th, 2010, 06:23 AM
Your UB is completely false and blasphemous. It's really disturbing, how evil this work of fiction is. :nono:

Charity
July 9th, 2010, 07:32 AM
....... its good to do things when you think of them, thAT is the reason why you thought of it now an then.
Amissiel; have you heard of a church without a sky, without the firmament created, that dosn't divide darkness from light?

Charity
July 9th, 2010, 07:54 AM
There's always two sides to every 2 sides of a story, I consider that the book as sincerely engelangs, but do you think celestial beings all tell the truth? Avoiding convictions, prolong time, sayeth then, I don't remeber a thing or how.

Charity
July 9th, 2010, 07:59 AM
ii c

smile

freelight
July 9th, 2010, 08:20 AM
There's always two sides to every 2 sides of a story, I consider that the book as sincerely engelangs, but do you think celestial beings all tell the truth? Avoiding convictions, prolong time, sayeth then, I don't remeber a thing or how.

'Evaluations' are determinations of value. Regarding writings of a religious, philosophic or scientific nature, all things bear investigating. Everything in the UB is open for inspection, just like any other 'book' or 'bible' of like subject matter. Consider 'content' and 'context'.

From the Foreward (http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p000.htm), by a Divine Counselor -

"We are fully cognizant of the difficulties of our assignment; we recognize the impossibility of fully translating the language of the concepts of divinity and eternity into the symbols of the language of the finite concepts of the mortal mind. But we know that there dwells within the human mind a fragment of God, and that there sojourns with the human soul the Spirit of Truth ; and we further know that these spirit forces conspire to enable material man to grasp the reality of spiritual values and to comprehend the philosophy of universe meanings. But even more certainly we know that these spirits of the Divine Presence are able to assist man in the spiritual appropriation of all truth contributory to the enhancement of the ever-progressing reality of personal religious experience—God-consciousness."

- UB


pj

Charity
July 9th, 2010, 08:41 AM
We are aware that in the beging; Angels raced off from heaven' down to the earth while it is was not; within their calling for service. perhaps they Take themselves a body? but realy, should have waited for their turn in a vessle? the mind needs the soul to fully comprehend an project a message?

where is the end? where we disclose the begining of?

Charity
July 9th, 2010, 08:50 AM
'Evaluations' are determinations of value. Regarding writings of a religious, philosophic or scientific nature, all things bear investigating. Everything in the UB is open for inspection, just like any other 'book' or 'bible' of like subject matter. Consider 'content' and 'context'.

From the Foreward (http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p000.htm), by a Divine Counselor -

"We are fully cognizant of the difficulties of our assignment; we recognize the impossibility of fully translating the language of the concepts of divinity and eternity into the symbols of the language of the finite concepts of the mortal mind. But we know that there dwells within the human mind a fragment of God, and that there sojourns with the human soul the Spirit of Truth ; and we further know that these spirit forces conspire to enable material man to grasp the reality of spiritual values and to comprehend the philosophy of universe meanings. But even more certainly we know that these spirits of the Divine Presence are able to assist man in the spiritual appropriation of all truth contributory to the enhancement of the ever-progressing reality of personal religious experience—God-consciousness."

- UB




pj

Nobble mission, an very much to be observed. in the relms of needing attention.

thank you

Nick_A
July 9th, 2010, 08:57 AM
Genesis is a wonderful book, and even if the creation account is a mythological narrative, hidden truths and insights can be found in such analogies. The celestials who gave us the Urantia Papers draw from their knowledge-record of things, but what is most important with the scriptures of our major religious traditions is the spiritual truth they contain within their given dispensations.

If anyone is serious about reading the Papers, begin with the foreward and Paper 1 (Part 1) on the nature of God (most essential) and the central and superuniverses...this will prepare the student with a precursory knowledge/background to proceed with the rest.


Personality

Two noteworthy subjects the Papers expound upon is the 'personality' of 'God', and/or 'personality' itself, in its constitution and complexity. I consider the personal aspects of 'God'(among his more transpersonal aspects) Here (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56080).... with Ben Masada's 'jewish' viewpoint. The Papers brings special significance to 'personality' and its eternal survival.

The Universal Father (http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p001.htm) (see especially last 3 sections on 'personality')


Thought Adjuster

Another important teaching is about the 'Thought Adjuster' (or 'mystery monitor', 'Father-fragment)..which is actually a fragment of 'God' within the mind/soul of man, a pre-personal spirit-essence which is a gift of the Father to the evolving mortals of time. As the soul progresses in its development in doing the will of God... the soul and the 'thought adjuster' fuse (become one) ensuring the soul's eternal survival into the ages to come. We have a fragment of infinity/eternity within us! - much is expounded on this inner 'spirit-pilot' if you will, but much is also mysterious.

Origin and nature of Thought Adjusters (http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p107.htm)

~*~*~

The future is always bright, for the plan and purpose of the Universal Father carries its momentum undergirding all creation and its directives...even with the temporay delays of free will choice,...the ultimacy of 'God' prevails.


In Spiritus,



pj

Thought Adjuster


Another important teaching is about the 'Thought Adjuster' (or 'mystery monitor', 'Father-fragment)..which is actually a fragment of 'God' within the mind/soul of man, a pre-personal spirit-essence which is a gift of the Father to the evolving mortals of time. As the soul progresses in its development in doing the will of God... the soul and the 'thought adjuster' fuse (become one) ensuring the soul's eternal survival into the ages to come. We have a fragment of infinity/eternity within us! - much is expounded on this inner 'spirit-pilot' if you will, but much is also mysterious.


Krishnamurti said in a talk:

You may remember the story of how the devil and a friend of his were walking down the street, when they saw ahead of them a man stoop down and pick up something from the ground, look at it, and put it away in his pocket. The friend said to the devil, "What did that man pick up?" "He picked up a piece of Truth," said the devil. "That is a very bad business for you, then," said his friend. "Oh, not at all," the devil replied, "I am going to let him organize it."

Ronald Reagan said:

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help." Ronald Reagan

Be veeerrry wary of thought adjustors. IMO people inwardly drawn to human "being" potential are better off with Simone's approach.

"We can only know one thing about God - that he is what we are not. Our wretchedness alone is an image of this. The more we contemplate it, the more we contemplate him." Simone Weil

Aimiel
July 9th, 2010, 08:58 AM
Those of us who can discern good from evil recognize the UB as completely evil.

Hebrews 5:14
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Charity
July 9th, 2010, 08:58 AM
smile ii

connect 2, bridge open.

Charity
July 9th, 2010, 09:03 AM
Those of us who can discern good from evil recognize the UB as completely evil.

Hebrews 5:14
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


Its life, all good, the perfect are destroyed by delay along with the wicked.

Aimiel
July 9th, 2010, 09:08 AM
Is English your first language?

Charity
July 9th, 2010, 09:26 AM
an is that as good as you can do? we did hear you the first time you said it.

O Mighty dump truck!!

freelight
July 9th, 2010, 03:29 PM
Krishnamurti said in a talk:

You may remember the story of how the devil and a friend of his were walking down the street, when they saw ahead of them a man stoop down and pick up something from the ground, look at it, and put it away in his pocket. The friend said to the devil, "What did that man pick up?" "He picked up a piece of Truth," said the devil. "That is a very bad business for you, then," said his friend. "Oh, not at all," the devil replied, "I am going to let him organize it."

J Krishnamurti was quite an inspiration in my earlier years. The story illustrates the dangers in organization of religion that is detrimental to true spiritual health and freedom. Not sure how this relates to the Urantia Papers, as there is no organized religion or authority structure(Church) that uses the UB as a 'bible', besides individuals and small communities (seasonal confrences/meetings) who are UB readers and enthusiasts.



Be veeerrry wary of thought adjustors. IMO people inwardly drawn to human "being" potential are better off with Simone's approach.

"We can only know one thing about God - that he is what we are not. Our wretchedness alone is an image of this. The more we contemplate it, the more we contemplate him." Simone Weil

Being aware of the role and presence of the Thought Adjuster (the presence of eternal/infinite God) in the human mind is nothing to fear, but advantageous to know of, on many levels.

Recognizing the 'evil' or what is 'wrong' in oneself is a part of the process of the soul's journey towards enlightenment, salvation, liberation, call it what you like. Light(knowledge) does expose the darkness(ignorance/egoity) in us, as we discern what is 'real' from what is 'unreal', abiding in the substance of the former.



pj

OMEGA
July 9th, 2010, 05:10 PM
Its like Lighthead said , we must overcome the evil within our minds that came from
the spirit of Satan in the Garden of Eden.
-----------------------------------------
"We are starlight we are golden and
We've got to get back to the Garden."



NIBIRU AND PLANET X ARE NEXT IN

THIS EPISODE OF BUCK ROGERS

IN THE 21st CENTURY.

Caino
July 9th, 2010, 07:06 PM
Its like Lighthead said , we must overcome the evil within our minds that came from
the spirit of Satan in the Garden of Eden.
-----------------------------------------
"We are starlight we are golden and
We've got to get back to the Garden."



NIBIRU AND PLANET X ARE NEXT IN

THIS EPISODE OF BUCK ROGERS

IN THE 21st CENTURY.

The beast was already evil, had already sined, then went after Eve. Evil and sin comes from the human heart, we cant blame the devil or anyone else for our own choices.


Caino

Nick_A
July 9th, 2010, 07:53 PM
J Krishnamurti was quite an inspiration in my earlier years. The story illustrates the dangers in organization of religion that is detrimental to true spiritual health and freedom. Not sure how this relates to the Urantia Papers, as there is no organized religion or authority structure(Church) that uses the UB as a 'bible', besides individuals and small communities (seasonal confrences/meetings) who are UB readers and enthusiasts.




Being aware of the role and presence of the Thought Adjuster (the presence of eternal/infinite God) in the human mind is nothing to fear, but advantageous to know of, on many levels.

Recognizing the 'evil' or what is 'wrong' in oneself is a part of the process of the soul's journey towards enlightenment, salvation, liberation, call it what you like. Light(knowledge) does expose the darkness(ignorance/egoity) in us, as we discern what is 'real' from what is 'unreal', abiding in the substance of the former.



pj

Freelight, we don't need thought adjustors. We need the courage to witness ourselves with impartial conscious attention. Then the truth of the human condition becomes obvious opening the means for freedom from it, to leave our attachments to plato's cave and opening to Man's objective conscious potential.


(3) Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

Krishnamurti is also referring to our own inner world. We pick up a piece of the truth and distort it through our own egotism. That is why for me the only legit paths are the ones that begin with Man's nothingness. It doesn't sell but is of great value for those that have the need and courage to look inside for the sake of the truth.

Charity
July 9th, 2010, 09:01 PM
The east to west path is very worn,
north to south... a woman, Mother of all Nations, made a beast the fathers of all lier's, who could not have been; without her authority an help divine.

thoughts
was the beast mean't to become a father?
of corse the beast is not going to be tempting the man Adam in this case; he can't sin in the least.
he can't have the children.' underline motive' there is no Justice in the judgement woman are easly tempted. there wasn't a competition. only incentive.
Owned woman chose t give their seed away, or forced, an therefor hardy owned!! taken as such. accused an controled as the orginal sinners.



indulge an carry on with their family argumenst. I think the movies are a great revlation.

Charity
July 9th, 2010, 09:43 PM
Then AS IT SEEMS

you can slowly bake different cookies in one oven, while many ovens quickly cook multitudes of one type of cookie.

Caino
July 10th, 2010, 05:45 AM
Then AS IT SEEMS

you can slowly bake different cookies in one oven, while many ovens quickly cook multitudes of one type of cookie.

Yummmmmm< cookies, never mind theology.......:cow:



C

Charity
July 10th, 2010, 06:15 AM
I use nothing but the best ingredients.
Smiles

Caino
July 10th, 2010, 08:10 AM
THE RELIGION OF JESUS

"Some day a reformation in the Christian church may strike deep enough to get back to the unadulterated religious teachings of Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith. You may preach a religion about Jesus, but, perforce, you must live the religion of Jesus. In the enthusiasm of Pentecost, Peter unintentionally inaugurated a new religion, the religion of the risen and glorified Christ. The Apostle Paul later on transformed this new gospel into Christianity, a religion embodying his own theologic views and portraying his own personal experience with the Jesus of the Damascus road. The gospel of the kingdom is founded on the personal religious experience of the Jesus of Galilee; Christianity is founded almost exclusively on the personal religious experience of the Apostle Paul. Almost the whole of the New Testamentis devoted, not to the portrayal of the significant and inspiring religious life of Jesus, but to a discussion of Paul's religious experience and to a portrayal of his personal religious convictions. The only notable exceptions to this statement, aside from certain parts of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, are the Book of Hebrews and the Epistle of James. Even Peter, in his writing, only once reverted to the personal religious life of his Master. The New Testament is a superb Christian document, but it is only meagerly Jesusonian......"

*Peter unintentionally inaugurated a new religion

*Even Peter, in his writing, only once reverted to the personal religious life of his Master.

*the religion of the risen and glorified Christ


[The religion of Jesus taught for the three years prior to his death could not have been centered around his death as a sacrifice, even the apostles did not know where he was going when he allowed himself to be rejected and killed by religion for the purpose of experiencing the final act of all that we are asked to experience, death. The gospel of the kingdom could not have been the gospel about the risen Christ]

NIV
John 13:36
Simon Peter asked him, "Lord, where are you going?" Jesus replied, "Where I am going, you cannot follow now, but you will follow later."

Jesus' death could not have been the central core of his teaching all across the land for Peter does not even know Jesus is leaving.

Caino



http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1448#U196_2_1

Aimiel
July 10th, 2010, 09:26 AM
Obviously, His death could not be revealed to anyone, including His disciples.

Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Jesus' Blood is the only way that our sins can be cleansed.

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Caino
July 11th, 2010, 06:47 AM
THE FATHER'S NAME

Of all the names by which God the Father is known throughout the universes, those which designate him as the First Source and the Universe Center are most often encountered. The First Father is known by various names in different universes and in different sectors of the same universe. The names which the creature assigns to the Creator are much dependent on the creature's concept of the Creator. The First Source and Universe Center has never revealed himself by name, only by nature. If we believe that we are the children of this Creator, it is only natural that we should eventually call him Father. But this is the name of our own choosing, and it grows out of the recognition of our personal relationship with the First Source and Center.

The Universal Father never imposes any form of arbitrary recognition, formal worship, or slavish service upon the intelligent will creatures of the universes. The evolutionary inhabitants of the worlds of time and space must of themselves—in their own hearts—recognize, love, and voluntarily worship him. The Creator refuses to coerce or compel the submission of the spiritual free wills of his material creatures. The affectionate dedication of the human will to the doing of the Father's will is man's choicest gift to God; in fact, such a consecration of creature will constitutes man's only possible gift of true value to the Paradise Father. In God, man lives, moves, and has his being; there is nothing which man can give to God except this choosing to abide by the Father's will, and such decisions, effected by the intelligent will creatures of the universes, constitute the reality of that true worship which is so satisfying to the love-dominated nature of the Creator Father.

When you have once become truly God-conscious, after you really discover the majestic Creator and begin to experience the realization of the indwelling presence of the divine controller, then, in accordance with your enlightenment and in accordance with the manner and method by which the divine Sons reveal God, you will find a name for the Universal Father which will be adequately expressive of your concept of the First Great Source and Center. And so, on different worlds and in various universes, the Creator becomes known by numerous appellations,.........

[In my own experience it took considerable time and effort to get the old picture or “God concept” out of my head, the grumpy old guy with the long beard, robe, sitting on a throne.]

Caino

http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1001

Charity
July 11th, 2010, 07:28 AM
Obviously, His death could not be revealed to anyone, including His disciples.

Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Jesus' Blood is the only way that our sins can be cleansed.

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Moses would be proud of your sacrfice for your sins. are you really convinced sacrifice is way more sensible than hearing the words "go now your sins are forgiven".


Jer 11:19 But I [was] like a lamb [or] an ox [that] is brought to the slaughter; and I knew not that they had devised devices against me, [saying], Let us destroy the tree with the fruit thereof, and let us cut him off from the land of the living, that his name may be no more remembered.


Motive' here comeS the sacrifice' boy, rott to nobody new.
Jhn 1:29 ¶ The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.



An He SAID....Go Now your sins are forgiven
Mt 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mat 9:5 For whether is easier, to say, [Thy] sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
Mar 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mar 2:9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, [Thy] sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
Luk 5:20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee. Luk 5:23 Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk?
Luk 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, [the same] loveth little.
Luk 7:48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

Caino
July 11th, 2010, 08:12 AM
The meaning of it all..........


"The enlightened worlds all recognize and worship the Universal Father, the eternal maker and infinite upholder of all creation. The will creatures of universe upon universe have embarked upon the long, long Paradise journey, the fascinating struggle of the eternal adventure of attaining God the Father. The transcendent goal of the children of time is to find the eternal God, to comprehend the divine nature, to recognize the Universal Father. God-knowing creatures have only one supreme ambition, just one consuming desire, and that is to become, as they are in their spheres, like him as he is in his Paradise perfection of personality and in his universal sphere of righteous supremacy. From the Universal Father who inhabits eternity there has gone forth the supreme mandate, “Be you perfect, even as I am perfect.” In love and mercy the messengers of Paradise have carried this divine exhortation down through the ages and out through the universes, even to such lowly animal-origin creatures as the human races of Urantia.

This magnificent and universal injunction to strive for the attainment of the perfection of divinity is the first duty, and should be the highest ambition, of all the struggling creature creation of the God of perfection. This possibility of the attainment of divine perfection is the final and certain destiny of all man’s eternal spiritual progress.

Urantia mortals can hardly hope to be perfect in the infinite sense, but it is entirely possible for human beings, starting out as they do on this planet, to attain the supernal and divine goal which the infinite God has set for mortal man; and when they do achieve this destiny, they will, in all that pertains to self-realization and mind attainment, be just as replete in their sphere of divine perfection as God himself is in his sphere of infinity and eternity. Such perfection may not be universal in the material sense, unlimited in intellectual grasp, or final in spiritual experience, but it is final and complete in all finite aspects of divinity of will, perfection of personality motivation, and God-consciousness."



Caino

Aimiel
July 11th, 2010, 09:08 AM
Moses would be proud of your sacrfice for your sins. Jesus' sacrifice, not mine. His Blood is the only way sins can be cleansed. Without His Blood, you're hopeless. You have no life in you, because you don't have His Spirit. You have that of a stranger.

Charity
July 11th, 2010, 04:55 PM
Jesus' sacrifice, not mine. His Blood is the only way sins can be cleansed. Without His Blood, you're hopeless. You have no life in you, because you don't have His Spirit. You have that of a stranger.

I would not agree to kill the man Jesus, I would not want to have any part in his murder!I would not want to feed my children the blood of a sacrifice, I would rather enjoy him, an what he has been given to deliver, an I would allow him to heal as many people as possible for as long as possible, an rejoice, an I could remain patient with A hope an faith that when he passed up the ghost in his old age' "peace' that he would should rise from the grave with out fuss.

freelight
July 12th, 2010, 12:01 AM
I would not agree to kill the man Jesus, I would not want to have any part in his murder!I would not want to feed my children the blood of a sacrifice, I would rather enjoy him, an what he has been given to deliver, an I would allow him to heal as many people as possible for as long as possible, an rejoice, an I could remain patient with A hope an faith that when he passed up the ghost in his old age' "peace' that he would should rise from the grave with out fuss.

This addresses the ancient primitive belief that only 'blood' could appease or satisfy the Gods. From the Papers we read -

The barbarous idea of appeasing an angry God, of propitiating an offended Lord, of winning the favor of Deity through sacrifices and penance and even by the shedding of blood, represents a religion wholly puerile and primitive, a philosophy unworthy of an enlightened age of science and truth. Such beliefs are utterly repulsive to the celestial beings and the divine rulers who serve and reign in the universes. It is an affront to God to believe, hold, or teach that innocent blood must be shed in order to win his favor or to divert the fictitious divine wrath.

The Hebrews believed that "without the shedding of blood there could be no remission of sin." They had not found deliverance from the old and pagan idea that the Gods could not be appeased except by the sight of blood, though Moses did make a distinct advance when he forbade human sacrifices and substituted therefor, in the primitive minds of his childlike Bedouin followers, the ceremonial sacrifice of animals.

The bestowal of a Paradise Son on your world was inherent in the situation of closing a planetary age; it was inescapable, and it was not made necessary for the purpose of winning the favor of God. This bestowal also happened to be the final personal act of a Creator Son in the long adventure of earning the experiential sovereignty of his universe. What a travesty upon the infinite character of God! this teaching that his fatherly heart in all its austere coldness and hardness was so untouched by the misfortunes and sorrows of his creatures that his tender mercies were not forthcoming until he saw his blameless Son bleeding and dying upon the cross of Calvary!

-Erroneous ideas of God (http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p004.htm) (4:5, last section)

While the blood atonement concept has many dimensions to it, the idea that this was one of Jesus main reasons for incarnating here is strongly rejected. The Papers reveal Jesus as our Creator-Son (Christ-Michael) who incarnated to experience life here....as a mortal of the realm, ..whereby he would triumph and establish his sovereignty over this local universe(his creation), and so he did, proclaiming the gospel of the Fatherhood of God and brotherhood of man, appearing to his disciples many times in his morontia form, finally ascending on high as sovereign lord. (more on the morontia-form can be found in this thread here (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40856)).



pj

Charity
July 12th, 2010, 02:11 AM
Thank you Caino, an Freelight ;)

Caino
July 12th, 2010, 06:13 AM
"The Universal Father is the secret of the reality of personality, the bestowal of personality, and the destiny of personality. The Eternal Son is the absolute personality, the secret of spiritual energy, morontia spirits, and perfected spirits. The Conjoint Actor is the spirit-mind personality, the source of intelligence, reason, and the universal mind. But the Isle of Paradise is nonpersonal and extraspiritual, being the essence of the universal body, the source and center of physical matter, and the absolute master pattern of universal material reality.

These qualities of universal reality are manifest in Urantian human experience on the following levels:


Body. The material or physical organism of man. The living electrochemical mechanism of animal nature and origin.

Mind. The thinking, perceiving, and feeling mechanism of the human organism. The total conscious and unconscious experience. The intelligence associated with the emotional life reaching upward through worship and wisdom to the spirit level.

Spirit. The divine spirit that indwells the mind of man—the Thought Adjuster. This immortal spirit is prepersonal—not a personality, though destined to become a part of the personality of the surviving mortal creature.

Soul. The soul of man is an experiential acquirement. As a mortal creature chooses to "do the will of the Father in heaven," so the indwelling spirit becomes the father of a new reality in human experience. The mortal and material mind is the mother of this same emerging reality. The substance of this new reality is neither material nor spiritual—it is morontial. This is the emerging and immortal soul which is destined to survive mortal death and begin the Paradise ascension.

Personality. The personality of mortal man is neither body, mind, nor spirit; neither is it the soul. Personality is the one changeless reality in an otherwise ever-changing creature experience; and it unifies all other associated factors of individuality. The personality is the unique bestowal which the Universal Father makes upon the living and associated energies of matter, mind, and spirit, and which survives with the survival of the morontial soul.

Morontia is a term designating a vast level intervening between the material and the spiritual. It may designate personal or impersonal realities, living or nonliving energies. The warp of morontia is spiritual; its woof is physical." UB

Caino

Aimiel
July 12th, 2010, 07:08 AM
I would not agree to kill the man Jesus, I would not want to have any part in his murder!I would not want to feed my children the blood of a sacrifice, I would rather enjoy him, an what he has been given to deliver, an I would allow him to heal as many people as possible for as long as possible, an rejoice, an I could remain patient with A hope an faith that when he passed up the ghost in his old age' "peace' that he would should rise from the grave with out fuss.He would not have died, had He not been put to death. He allowed Himself to be killed, to pay for our sins with His Own Blood. If you don't eat His Flesh and drink His Blood, you have no life in you.

John 6:53
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Charity
July 12th, 2010, 07:16 AM
He would not have died, had He not been put to death. He allowed Himself to be killed, to pay for our sins with His Own Blood. If you don't eat His Flesh and drink His Blood, you have no life in you.

John 6:53
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

id rather have a meat pie John!!!!!

Charity
July 12th, 2010, 07:45 AM
"The Universal Father is the secret of the reality of personality, the bestowal of personality, and the destiny of personality. The Eternal Son is the absolute personality, the secret of spiritual energy, morontia spirits, and perfected spirits. The Conjoint Actor is the spirit-mind personality, the source of intelligence, reason, and the universal mind. But the Isle of Paradise is nonpersonal and extraspiritual, being the essence of the universal body, the source and center of physical matter, and the absolute master pattern of universal material reality.

These qualities of universal reality are manifest in Urantian human experience on the following levels:


Body. The material or physical organism of man. The living electrochemical mechanism of animal nature and origin.

Mind. The thinking, perceiving, and feeling mechanism of the human organism. The total conscious and unconscious experience. The intelligence associated with the emotional life reaching upward through worship and wisdom to the spirit level.

Spirit. The divine spirit that indwells the mind of man—the Thought Adjuster. This immortal spirit is prepersonal—not a personality, though destined to become a part of the personality of the surviving mortal creature.

Soul. The soul of man is an experiential acquirement. As a mortal creature chooses to "do the will of the Father in heaven," so the indwelling spirit becomes the father of a new reality in human experience. The mortal and material mind is the mother of this same emerging reality. The substance of this new reality is neither material nor spiritual—it is morontial. This is the emerging and immortal soul which is destined to survive mortal death and begin the Paradise ascension.

Personality. The personality of mortal man is neither body, mind, nor spirit; neither is it the soul. Personality is the one changeless reality in an otherwise ever-changing creature experience; and it unifies all other associated factors of individuality. The personality is the unique bestowal which the Universal Father makes upon the living and associated energies of matter, mind, and spirit, and which survives with the survival of the morontial soul.

Morontia is a term designating a vast level intervening between the material and the spiritual. It may designate personal or impersonal realities, living or nonliving energies. The warp of morontia is spiritual; its woof is physical." UB

Caino

Thank you Caino

.....prophsey said to come from the lips of a Jesus whom was sent into the world to condemn this generation?

who is this that has lived an perished, who was an is, any also shall come? Mat 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon [is] here.


...is there any Thing in the UB?

Caino
July 12th, 2010, 08:09 AM
John 14

Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


HEB

10:34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.



THE FIRST MANSION WORLD

47:3.1 On the mansion worlds the resurrected mortal survivors resume their lives just where they left off when overtaken by death. When you go from Urantia to the first mansion world, you will notice considerable change, but if you had come from a more normal and progressive sphere of time, you would hardly notice the difference except for the fact that you were in possession of a different body; the tabernacle of flesh and blood has been left behind on the world of nativity.

47:3.2 The very center of all activities on the first mansion world is the resurrection hall, the enormous temple of personality assembly. This gigantic structure consists of the central rendezvous of the seraphic destiny guardians, the Thought Adjusters, and the archangels of the resurrection. The Life Carriers also function with these celestial beings in the resurrection of the dead.

47:3.3 The mortal-mind transcripts and the active creature-memory patterns as transformed from the material levels to the spiritual are the individual possession of the detached Thought Adjusters; these spiritized factors of mind, memory, and creature personality are forever a part of such Adjusters. The creature mind-matrix and the passive potentials of identity are present in the morontia soul intrusted to the keeping of the seraphic destiny guardians. And it is the reuniting of the morontia-soul trust of the seraphim and the spirit-mind trust of the Adjuster that reassembles creature personality and constitutes resurrection of a sleeping survivor.



47:3.4 If a transitory personality of mortal origin should never be thus reassembled, the spirit elements of the nonsurviving mortal creature would forever continue as an integral part of the individual experiential endowment of the onetime indwelling Adjuster.

47:3.5 From the Temple of New Life there extend seven radial wings, the resurrection halls of the mortal races. Each of these structures is devoted to the assembly of one of the seven races of time. There are one hundred thousand personal resurrection chambers in each of these seven wings terminating in the circular class assembly halls, which serve as the awakening chambers for as many as one million individuals. These halls are surrounded by the personality assembly chambers of the blended races of the normal post-Adamic worlds. Regardless of the technique which may be employed on the individual worlds of time in connection with special or dispensational resurrections, the real and conscious reassembly of actual and complete personality takes place in the resurrection halls of mansonia number one. Throughout all eternity you will recall the profound memory impressions of your first witnessing of these resurrection mornings.

47:3.6 From the resurrection halls you proceed to the Melchizedek sector, where you are assigned permanent residence. Then you enter upon ten days of personal liberty. You are free to explore the immediate vicinity of your new home and to familiarize yourself with the program which lies immediately ahead. You also have time to gratify your desire to consult the registry and call upon your loved ones and other earth friends who may have preceded you to these worlds. At the end of your ten-day period of leisure you begin the second step in the Paradise journey, for the mansion worlds are actual training spheres, not merely detention planets.

47:3.7 On mansion world number one (or another in case of advanced status) you will resume your intellectual training and spiritual development at the exact level whereon they were interrupted by death. Between the time of planetary death or translation and resurrection on the mansion world, mortal man gains absolutely nothing aside from experiencing the fact of survival. You begin over there right where you leave off down here.

47:3.8 Almost the entire experience of mansion world number one pertains to deficiency ministry. Survivors arriving on this first of the detention spheres present so many and such varied defects of creature character and deficiencies of mortal experience that the major activities of the realm are occupied with the correction and cure of these manifold legacies of the life in the flesh on the material evolutionary worlds of time and space.

47:3.9 The sojourn on mansion world number one is designed to develop mortal survivors at least up to the status of the post-Adamic dispensation on the normal evolutionary worlds. Spiritually, of course, the mansion world students are far in advance of such a state of mere human development.

47:3.10 If you are not to be detained on mansion world number one, at the end of ten days you will enter the translation sleep and proceed to world number two, and every ten days thereafter you will thus advance until you arrive on the world of your assignment.

47:3.11 The center of the seven major circles of the first mansion world administration is occupied by the temple of the Morontia Companions, the personal guides assigned to ascending mortals. These companions are the offspring of the local universe Mother Spirit, and there are several million of them on the morontia worlds of Satania. Aside from those assigned as group companions, you will have much to do with the interpreters and translators, the building custodians, and the excursion supervisors. And all of these companions are most co-operative with those who have to do with developing your personality factors of mind and spirit within the morontia body.

47:3.12 As you start out on the first mansion world, one Morontia Companion is assigned to each company of one thousand ascending mortals, but you will encounter larger numbers as you progress through the seven mansion spheres. These beautiful and versatile beings are companionable associates and charming guides. They are free to accompany individuals or selected groups to any of the transition-culture spheres, including their satellite worlds. They are the excursion guides and leisure associates of all ascending mortals. They often accompany survivor groups on periodic visits to Jerusem, and on any day you are there, you can go to the registry sector of the system capital and meet ascending mortals from all seven of the mansion worlds since they freely journey back and forth between their residential abodes and the system headquarters."


Caino

Aimiel
July 12th, 2010, 08:13 AM
Without eating Jesus' Flesh or drinking His Blood, all the mansions you can imagine won't do you any good, since you have no life in you.

Caino
July 12th, 2010, 08:20 AM
Thank you Caino

.....prophsey said to come from the lips of a Jesus whom was sent into the world to condemn this generation?

who is this that has lived an perished, who was an is, any also shall come? Mat 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon [is] here.


...is there any Thing in the UB?

Not really, the only possible exception is the mortal mother of Jessu "Mary" being thought of like a queen:

"Mary had not been so joyous in years. She journeyed to Cana in the spirit of the queen mother on the way to witness the coronation of her son. Not since he was thirteen years old had Jesus' family and friends seen him so carefree and happy, so thoughtful and understanding of the wishes and desires of his associates, so touchingly sympathetic. And so they all whispered among themselves, in small groups, wondering what was going to happen. What would this strange person do next? How would he usher in the glory of the coming kingdom? And they were all thrilled with the thought that they were to be present to see the revelation of the might and power of Israel's God."

Caino
July 12th, 2010, 02:28 PM
THE MIND ARENA OF CHOICE

111:1.1 Though the work of Adjusters is spiritual in nature, they must, perforce, do all their work upon an intellectual foundation. Mind is the human soil from which the spirit Monitor must evolve the morontia soul with the co-operation of the indwelt personality.

111:1.2 There is a cosmic unity in the several mind levels of the universe of universes. Intellectual selves have their origin in the cosmic mind much as nebulae take origin in the cosmic energies of universe space. On the human (hence personal) level of intellectual selves the potential of spirit evolution becomes dominant, with the assent of the mortal mind, because of the spiritual endowments of the human personality together with the creative presence of an entity-point of absolute value in such human selves. But such a spirit dominance of the material mind is conditioned upon two experiences: This mind must have evolved up through the ministry of the seven adjutant mind-spirits, and the material (personal) self must choose to co-operate with the indwelling Adjuster in creating and fostering the morontia self, the evolutionary and potentially immortal soul.

111:1.3 Material mind is the arena in which human personalities live, are self-conscious, make decisions, choose God or forsake him, eternalize or destroy themselves.

111:1.4 Material evolution has provided you a life machine, your body; the Father himself has endowed you with the purest spirit reality known in the universe, your Thought Adjuster. But into your hands, subject to your own decisions, has been given mind, and it is by mind that you live or die. It is within this mind and with this mind that you make those moral decisions which enable you to achieve Adjusterlikeness, and that is Godlikeness.

111:1.5 Mortal mind is a temporary intellect system loaned to human beings for use during a material lifetime, and as they use this mind, they are either accepting or rejecting the potential of eternal existence. Mind is about all you have of universe reality that is subject to your will, and the soul—the morontia self—will faithfully portray the harvest of the temporal decisions which the mortal self is making. Human consciousness rests gently upon the electrochemical mechanism below and delicately touches the spirit-morontia energy system above. Of neither of these two systems is the human being ever completely conscious in his mortal life; therefore must he work in mind, of which he is conscious. And it is not so much what mind comprehends as what mind desires to comprehend that insures survival; it is not so much what mind is like as what mind is striving to be like that constitutes spirit identification. It is not so much that man is conscious of God as that man yearns for God that results in universe ascension. What you are today is not so important as what you are becoming day by day and in eternity.

111:1.6 Mind is the cosmic instrument on which the human will can play the discords of destruction, or upon which this same human will can bring forth the exquisite melodies of God identification and consequent eternal survival. The Adjuster bestowed upon man is, in the last analysis, impervious to evil and incapable of sin, but mortal mind can actually be twisted, distorted, and rendered evil and ugly by the sinful machinations of a perverse and self-seeking human will. Likewise can this mind be made noble, beautiful, true, and good—actually great—in accordance with the spirit-illuminated will of a God-knowing human being.

111:1.7 Evolutionary mind is only fully stable and dependable when manifesting itself upon the two extremes of cosmic intellectuality—the wholly mechanized and the entirely spiritualized. Between the intellectual extremes of pure mechanical control and true spirit nature there intervenes that enormous group of evolving and ascending minds whose stability and tranquillity are dependent upon personality choice and spirit identification.

111:1.8 But man does not passively, slavishly, surrender his will to the Adjuster. Rather does he actively, positively, and co-operatively choose to follow the Adjuster's leading when and as such leading consciously differs from the desires and impulses of the natural mortal mind. The Adjusters manipulate but never dominate man's mind against his will; to the Adjusters the human will is supreme. And they so regard and respect it while they strive to achieve the spiritual goals of thought adjustment and character transformation in the almost limitless arena of the evolving human intellect.

111:1.9 Mind is your ship, the Adjuster is your pilot, the human will is captain. The master of the mortal vessel should have the wisdom to trust the divine pilot to guide the ascending soul into the morontia harbors of eternal survival. Only by selfishness, slothfulness, and sinfulness can the will of man reject the guidance of such a loving pilot and eventually wreck the mortal career upon the evil shoals of rejected mercy and upon the rocks of embraced sin. With your consent, this faithful pilot will safely carry you across the barriers of time and the handicaps of space to the very source of the divine mind and on beyond, even to the Paradise Father of Adjusters.


Caino

CabinetMaker
July 12th, 2010, 02:48 PM
THE MIND ARENA OF CHOICE

111:1.1 Though the work of Adjusters is spiritual in nature, they must, perforce, do all their work upon an intellectual foundation. Mind is the human soil from which the spirit Monitor must evolve the morontia soul with the co-operation of the indwelt personality.

111:1.2 There is a cosmic unity in the several mind levels of the universe of universes. Intellectual selves have their origin in the cosmic mind much as nebulae take origin in the cosmic energies of universe space. On the human (hence personal) level of intellectual selves the potential of spirit evolution becomes dominant, with the assent of the mortal mind, because of the spiritual endowments of the human personality together with the creative presence of an entity-point of absolute value in such human selves. But such a spirit dominance of the material mind is conditioned upon two experiences: This mind must have evolved up through the ministry of the seven adjutant mind-spirits, and the material (personal) self must choose to co-operate with the indwelling Adjuster in creating and fostering the morontia self, the evolutionary and potentially immortal soul.

111:1.3 Material mind is the arena in which human personalities live, are self-conscious, make decisions, choose God or forsake him, eternalize or destroy themselves.

111:1.4 Material evolution has provided you a life machine, your body; the Father himself has endowed you with the purest spirit reality known in the universe, your Thought Adjuster. But into your hands, subject to your own decisions, has been given mind, and it is by mind that you live or die. It is within this mind and with this mind that you make those moral decisions which enable you to achieve Adjusterlikeness, and that is Godlikeness.

111:1.5 Mortal mind is a temporary intellect system loaned to human beings for use during a material lifetime, and as they use this mind, they are either accepting or rejecting the potential of eternal existence. Mind is about all you have of universe reality that is subject to your will, and the soul—the morontia self—will faithfully portray the harvest of the temporal decisions which the mortal self is making. Human consciousness rests gently upon the electrochemical mechanism below and delicately touches the spirit-morontia energy system above. Of neither of these two systems is the human being ever completely conscious in his mortal life; therefore must he work in mind, of which he is conscious. And it is not so much what mind comprehends as what mind desires to comprehend that insures survival; it is not so much what mind is like as what mind is striving to be like that constitutes spirit identification. It is not so much that man is conscious of God as that man yearns for God that results in universe ascension. What you are today is not so important as what you are becoming day by day and in eternity.

111:1.6 Mind is the cosmic instrument on which the human will can play the discords of destruction, or upon which this same human will can bring forth the exquisite melodies of God identification and consequent eternal survival. The Adjuster bestowed upon man is, in the last analysis, impervious to evil and incapable of sin, but mortal mind can actually be twisted, distorted, and rendered evil and ugly by the sinful machinations of a perverse and self-seeking human will. Likewise can this mind be made noble, beautiful, true, and good—actually great—in accordance with the spirit-illuminated will of a God-knowing human being.

111:1.7 Evolutionary mind is only fully stable and dependable when manifesting itself upon the two extremes of cosmic intellectuality—the wholly mechanized and the entirely spiritualized. Between the intellectual extremes of pure mechanical control and true spirit nature there intervenes that enormous group of evolving and ascending minds whose stability and tranquillity are dependent upon personality choice and spirit identification.

111:1.8 But man does not passively, slavishly, surrender his will to the Adjuster. Rather does he actively, positively, and co-operatively choose to follow the Adjuster's leading when and as such leading consciously differs from the desires and impulses of the natural mortal mind. The Adjusters manipulate but never dominate man's mind against his will; to the Adjusters the human will is supreme. And they so regard and respect it while they strive to achieve the spiritual goals of thought adjustment and character transformation in the almost limitless arena of the evolving human intellect.

111:1.9 Mind is your ship, the Adjuster is your pilot, the human will is captain. The master of the mortal vessel should have the wisdom to trust the divine pilot to guide the ascending soul into the morontia harbors of eternal survival. Only by selfishness, slothfulness, and sinfulness can the will of man reject the guidance of such a loving pilot and eventually wreck the mortal career upon the evil shoals of rejected mercy and upon the rocks of embraced sin. With your consent, this faithful pilot will safely carry you across the barriers of time and the handicaps of space to the very source of the divine mind and on beyond, even to the Paradise Father of Adjusters.


Caino
I read this but I think I need several doses of medical marijuana before it will make sense!

Aimiel
July 12th, 2010, 02:50 PM
I read this but I think I need several doses of medical marijuana before it will make sense!:chuckle:

Charity
July 12th, 2010, 06:47 PM
I read this but I think I need several doses of medical marijuana before it will make sense!

Oh probabley would recomend that while your drunk CB.

freelight
July 12th, 2010, 10:25 PM
I read this but I think I need several doses of medical marijuana before it will make sense!

Hi CM,

Note that what Caino shared was from Paper 111, thats quite a ways into the entire Revelation. This is why I recommend beginning at the start with the Foreward and Paper 1(The Universal Father).

Begin here - Urantia Book Online (http://urantiabook.org/newbook/index.html)

You can listen to the 'audio version'(as a link) above each chapter-section as you read along to enhance your learning. The Foreward covers a synopsis of the entire cosmology and common terminologies, preparing one for what later Papers expound in greater detail. Reading at least the first 10 - 12 papers is fundamental to understanding the Nature of 'God' and greater cosmic overlay and structure of the Universe of universes, from which the great evolutionary plan and destiny of life unfolds into eternity. One learns terms, meanings, values and context as he continues his reading. Its over 2,000 pages of info. so very extensively detailed.

This is all covered in our 'Intro to the Urantia Papers' thread already, for those interested. - plus Papers 1 - 5 are copied there as well. After the preliminary readings,...one can read portions that interest one, but having knowledge of the terms in context of the cosmology and philosophical consistency of the tome is essential. One can also jump right into Part 4 on the life and teachings of Jesus, but having a knowledge/understanding of terms and cosmological context will enable one to understand who Jesus is and his bestowal-mission to our planet, according to the revelators. The fundamental religious truths, ethics and principles of classical/traditional theology are shared by the revelators...the essence of truth, goodness, beauty, love. These shine thru to the glory of God, the integrity of Spirit, sharing the 'gospel of the kingdom' in its greater cosmic significance, revealing Jesus in a new light, his role, personhood, humanity/divinity, the order of Sons he is a member of (Creator-Sons), etc. One has to do the reading/research for themselves to 'get an education' so to speak.

There is an 'order' to things..............




pj

Yazichestvo
July 12th, 2010, 11:08 PM
I read this but I think I need several doses of medical marijuana before it will make sense!

I doubt that would improve your understanding in any way.

Freelight, I see you seem to speak well of these papers, and that makes me interested. However, this whole thing has the scent of newness on it, and as you can imagine of someone as theologically old-fashioned as myself, I'm skeptical religions that just pop up after millienia of ignorance.

freelight
July 13th, 2010, 12:51 AM
Freelight, I see you seem to speak well of these papers, and that makes me interested. However, this whole thing has the scent of newness on it, and as you can imagine of someone as theologically old-fashioned as myself, I'm skeptical religions that just pop up after millienia of ignorance.


Hi Yaz,

The UB is an epochal revelation of significance, among others in this dispensation - it uses the knowledge-base of humanity at that time from the field of religion, science and philosophy(1930's) and expands upon it, appropriate to what the revelators deemed adequate for what man had the capacity to receive and benefit from. - such is the nature of an "epochal revelation". The Urantia Papers are the 5th epochal revelation to the planet. Man receives more knowledge commensurate with his evolution.

One has adequate info. to work with in our charter thread Here (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14004). Read that entire thread and this one, make use of the resources, do the reading....and we can discuss in the context of 'creative dialogue', which is what this space is for,....exploring, researching, discovering, engaging.

Gods relationship to the individual

5:0.1 (http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p005.htm) If the finite mind of man is unable to comprehend how so great and so majestic a God as the Universal Father can descend from his eternal abode in infinite perfection to fraternize with the individual human creature, then must such a finite intellect rest assurance of divine fellowship upon the truth of the fact that an actual fragment of the living God resides within the intellect of every normal-minded and morally conscious Urantia mortal. The indwelling Thought Adjusters are a part of the eternal Deity of the Paradise Father. Man does not have to go farther than his own inner experience of the soul' s contemplation of this spiritual-reality presence to find God and attempt communion with him.

~*~*~

As we've shared already, the presence of the Thought Adjuster is essential to the evolving personality of man within his soul-complex....the inter-relations of the mortal with the divine spirit.




pj

John Mortimer
July 13th, 2010, 02:08 AM
Hi Paul :)



The UB is an epochal revelation of significance, among others in this dispensation - it uses the knowledge-base of humanity at that time from the field of religion, science and philosophy(1930's) and expands upon it, appropriate to what the revelators deemed adequate for what man had the capacity to receive and benefit from.


Which does indicate that the UB is now out-of-date.
One thing that I find perplexing about the UB structure is how self-referential it is in terms of its overarching paradigm. That paradigm may well reflect the consciousness of the 1930s - 1950s more than it does the consciousness of its initiators.

Having said that - even today, the entire release provides a new way to approach the philosophy of ultimate concern, the religious experience and, (especially), Jesus; a precious gift indeed for those who have become disenchanted with, (and even fearful of), the churches after lifetimes of bondage to the ecclesiastical systems.




Gods relationship to the individual

5:0.1 (http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p005.htm) If the finite mind of man is unable to comprehend how so great and so majestic a God as the Universal Father can descend from his eternal abode in infinite perfection to fraternize with the individual human creature, then must such a finite intellect rest assurance of divine fellowship upon the truth of the fact that an actual fragment of the living God resides within the intellect of every normal-minded and morally conscious Urantia mortal. The indwelling Thought Adjusters are a part of the eternal Deity of the Paradise Father. Man does not have to go farther than his own inner experience of the soul' s contemplation of this spiritual-reality presence to find God and attempt communion with him.

~*~*~

As we've shared already, the presence of the Thought Adjuster is essential to the evolving personality of man within his soul-complex....the inter-relations of the mortal with the divine spirit.




pj



Yes, this is one place where we find a simultaneous similarity and divergence from the current Ascended Master schools teachings.

The Thought Adjuster of the UB is very much akin to the Christ Self of the AM schools a-la 1930s-1990s. In this paradigm, the Thought Adjuster/Christ Self enables a spiritually evolving personality to align itself with the Logos and thence to come into oneness with the I AM Presence, this being consummated in the ascension.

The new paradigm sees the Thought Adjuster/Christ Self as fulfilling an angelic role, allowing an inner frame of reference for the embodied conscious self... a frame of reference that makes the existence of a higher reality undeniable. The conscious self has identified itself as a limited mortal being but the Thought Adjuster/Christ Self acts as a catalyst for the conscious self to regain gnosis of its essential nature beyond the world of form. The I AM Presence then is indeed an evolving creation within the higher vibrations of the world of form - divine yet finite from the perspective of the world of form. The Conscious Self - the "Conscious You" as Mother Mary named this concept in 2004 through Kim Michaels - is the infinite extension of God Being beyond form yet focused for the I AM Presence and thence for the embodied soul.

Caino
July 13th, 2010, 05:26 AM
I doubt that would improve your understanding in any way.

Freelight, I see you seem to speak well of these papers, and that makes me interested. However, this whole thing has the scent of newness on it, and as you can imagine of someone as theologically old-fashioned as myself, I'm skeptical religions that just pop up after millienia of ignorance.

This is a common phenomenon, the idea that revelation or religious foundation could only have happened during the span of the Biblical ages, that our only reference point is the past age, that all things "new" must be filtered through "the past" to validate or not it's worth. That is precisely why the Bible is a layer cake of revelation and subsequent redaction, a convoluted story taken in its entirety.

God is everywhere and every when.

Caino

Aimiel
July 13th, 2010, 06:23 AM
God won't violate His Word. When He reveals anything new, it will line up with and bring revelation to His Word. The UB does neither.

Caino
July 13th, 2010, 07:43 AM
"But religious leaders are making a great mistake when they try to call modern man to spiritual battle with the trumpet blasts of the Middle Ages. Religion must provide itself with new and up-to-date slogans. Neither democracy nor any other political panacea will take the place of spiritual progress. False religions may represent an evasion of reality, but Jesus in his gospel introduced mortal man to the very entrance upon an eternal reality of spiritual progression."


195.10.11 Christianity is seriously confronted with the doom embodied in one of its own slogans: “A house divided against itself cannot stand.” The non-Christian world will hardly capitulate to a sect-divided Christendom. The living Jesus is the only hope of a possible unification of Christianity. The true church — the Jesus brotherhood — is invisible, spiritual, and is characterized by unity, not necessarily by uniformity. Uniformity is the earmark of the physical world of mechanistic nature. Spiritual unity is the fruit of faith union with the living Jesus. The visible church should refuse longer to handicap the progress of the invisible and spiritual brotherhood of the kingdom of God. And this brotherhood is destined to become a living organism in contrast to an institutionalized social organization. It may well utilize such social organizations, but it must not be supplanted by them.


Caino

Caino
July 13th, 2010, 07:46 AM
Hi CM,

Note that what Caino shared was from Paper 111, thats quite a ways into the entire Revelation. This is why I recommend beginning at the start with the Foreward and Paper 1(The Universal Father).

Begin here - Urantia Book Online (http://urantiabook.org/newbook/index.html)

You can listen to the 'audio version'(as a link) above each chapter-section as you read along to enhance your learning. The Foreward covers a synopsis of the entire cosmology and common terminologies, preparing one for what later Papers expound in greater detail. Reading at least the first 10 - 12 papers is fundamental to understanding the Nature of 'God' and greater cosmic overlay and structure of the Universe of universes, from which the great evolutionary plan and destiny of life unfolds into eternity. One learns terms, meanings, values and context as he continues his reading. Its over 2,000 pages of info. so very extensively detailed.

This is all covered in our 'Intro to the Urantia Papers' thread already, for those interested. - plus Papers 1 - 5 are copied there as well. After the preliminary readings,...one can read portions that interest one, but having knowledge of the terms in context of the cosmology and philosophical consistency of the tome is essential. One can also jump right into Part 4 on the life and teachings of Jesus, but having a knowledge/understanding of terms and cosmological context will enable one to understand who Jesus is and his bestowal-mission to our planet, according to the revelators. The fundamental religious truths, ethics and principles of classical/traditional theology are shared by the revelators...the essence of truth, goodness, beauty, love. These shine thru to the glory of God, the integrity of Spirit, sharing the 'gospel of the kingdom' in its greater cosmic significance, revealing Jesus in a new light, his role, personhood, humanity/divinity, the order of Sons he is a member of (Creator-Sons), etc. One has to do the reading/research for themselves to 'get an education' so to speak.

There is an 'order' to things..............




pj

"But a cult — a symbolism of rituals, slogans, or goals — will not function if it is too complex. And there must be the demand for devotion, the response of loyalty. Every effective religion unerringly develops a worthy symbolism, and its devotees would do well to prevent the crystallization of such a ritual into cramping, deforming, and stifling stereotyped ceremonials which can only handicap and retard all social, moral, and spiritual progress. No cult can survive if it retards moral growth and fails to foster spiritual progress. The cult is the skeletal structure around which grows the living and dynamic body of personal spiritual experience — true religion."


Caino

Aimiel
July 13th, 2010, 08:01 AM
I Corinthians 4:20
For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

freelight
July 13th, 2010, 12:21 PM
"But religious leaders are making a great mistake when they try to call modern man to spiritual battle with the trumpet blasts of the Middle Ages. Religion must provide itself with new and up-to-date slogans. Neither democracy nor any other political panacea will take the place of spiritual progress. False religions may represent an evasion of reality, but Jesus in his gospel introduced mortal man to the very entrance upon an eternal reality of spiritual progression."

Spiritual progress is key :)



195.10.11 Christianity is seriously confronted with the doom embodied in one of its own slogans: “A house divided against itself cannot stand.” The non-Christian world will hardly capitulate to a sect-divided Christendom. The living Jesus is the only hope of a possible unification of Christianity. The true church — the Jesus brotherhood — is invisible, spiritual, and is characterized by unity, not necessarily by uniformity. Uniformity is the earmark of the physical world of mechanistic nature. Spiritual unity is the fruit of faith union with the living Jesus. The visible church should refuse longer to handicap the progress of the invisible and spiritual brotherhood of the kingdom of God. And this brotherhood is destined to become a living organism in contrast to an institutionalized social organization. It may well utilize such social organizations, but it must not be supplanted by them.


Spiritual unity, communion and fellowship is essential, while 'structure' and 'organization' are to serve these ends being open to change and reformation as the Spirit leads.




pj

freelight
July 13th, 2010, 01:01 PM
Hi Paul :)



Which does indicate that the UB is now out-of-date.



Hi John. Most of the planets religious texts and 'scripture' are way older than the UB. One could take the term 'out of date' as meaning 'obsolete', - I'm sure you didnt mean it that way,...as all inspired writings are to be taken for their meaning, value, integrity, spiritual worth, etc.

The UB is considered the latest and current 'epochal revelation' to this planet. It appears epochal revelations come around at least every few millennia(Jesus bestowal-mission being the last one) so this one is still comparatively 'fresh' (given 80 years ago)-

92:4.9 The Urantia Papers. The papers, of which this is one, constitute the most recent presentation of truth to the mortals of Urantia. These papers differ from all previous revelations, for they are not the work of a single universe personality but a composite presentation by many beings. But no revelation short of the attainment of the Universal Father can ever be complete. All other celestial ministrations are no more than partial, transient, and practically adapted to local conditions in time and space. While such admissions as this may possibly detract from the immediate force and authority of all revelations, the time has arrived on Urantia when it is advisable to make such frank statements, even at the risk of weakening the future influence and authority of this, the most recent of the revelations of truth to the mortal races of Urantia.



One thing that I find perplexing about the UB structure is how self-referential it is in terms of its overarching paradigm. That paradigm may well reflect the consciousness of the 1930s - 1950s more than it does the consciousness of its initiators.

Its an interesting tome indeed! The revelators used the knowledge of mankind and its terms at that time, only bringing in new concepts or words if necessary in their presentation. (see Foreword). In any case, once one 'gets' the basic terms, structure and cosmology they can integrate the greater picture of evolutionary progress and details of the path of eternal progression relative to the soul's journey. - while the UB has its own peculiar nuances and nomenclature, its universal knowledge is consonant with human experience in every all fields of knowledge.


Having said that - even today, the entire release provides a new way to approach the philosophy of ultimate concern, the religious experience and, (especially), Jesus; a precious gift indeed for those who have become disenchanted with, (and even fearful of), the churches after lifetimes of bondage to the ecclesiastical systems.

Indeed.




Yes, this is one place where we find a simultaneous similarity and divergence from the current Ascended Master schools teachings.

The Thought Adjuster of the UB is very much akin to the Christ Self of the AM schools a-la 1930s-1990s. In this paradigm, the Thought Adjuster/Christ Self enables a spiritually evolving personality to align itself with the Logos and thence to come into oneness with the I AM Presence, this being consummated in the ascension.

The new paradigm sees the Thought Adjuster/Christ Self as fulfilling an angelic role, allowing an inner frame of reference for the embodied conscious self... a frame of reference that makes the existence of a higher reality undeniable. The conscious self has identified itself as a limited mortal being but the Thought Adjuster/Christ Self acts as a catalyst for the conscious self to regain gnosis of its essential nature beyond the world of form. The I AM Presence then is indeed an evolving creation within the higher vibrations of the world of form - divine yet finite from the perspective of the world of form. The Conscious Self - the "Conscious You" as Mother Mary named this concept in 2004 through Kim Michaels - is the infinite extension of God Being beyond form yet focused for the I AM Presence and thence for the embodied soul.


:) - just different schools using different terms, language-symbols and sometimes varying meanings within relationships and context...yet all these are ever relating. Wonderful isnt it?



pj

Caino
July 14th, 2010, 10:03 AM
dup post. sorry

Caino
July 14th, 2010, 10:10 AM
What became of the twelve apostles?

http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1391#U139_2_15

1) Andrew, the first chosen:

When the later persecutions finally scattered the apostles from Jerusalem, Andrew journeyed through Armenia, Asia Minor, and Macedonia and, after bringing many thousands into the kingdom, was finally apprehended and crucified in Patrae in Achaia. It was two full days before this robust man expired on the cross, and throughout these tragic hours he continued effectively to proclaim the glad tidings of the salvation of the kingdom of heaven.

2) Simon Peter:

When Simon joined the apostles, he was thirty years of age. He was married, had three children, and lived at Bethsaida, near Capernaum. His brother, Andrew, and his wife's mother lived with him. Both Peter and Andrew were fisher partners of the sons of Zebedee.

14 Peter's wife was a very able woman. For years she labored acceptably as a member of the women's corps, and when Peter was driven out of Jerusalem, she accompanied him upon all his journeys to the churches as well as on all his missionary excursions. And the day her illustrious husband yielded up his life, she was thrown to the wild beasts in the arena at Rome.

139:2.15 And so this man Peter, an intimate of Jesus, one of the inner circle, went forth from Jerusalem proclaiming the glad tidings of the kingdom with power and glory until the fullness of his ministry had been accomplished; and he regarded himself as the recipient of high honors when his captors informed him that he must die as his Master had died— on the cross. And thus was Simon Peter crucified in Rome.

3) James Zebedee:

1 James, the older of the two apostle sons of Zebedee, whom Jesus nicknamed "sons of thunder," was thirty years old when he became an apostle. He was married, had four children, and lived near his parents in the outskirts of Capernaum, Bethsaida. He was a fisherman, plying his calling in company with his younger brother John and in association with Andrew and Simon. James and his brother John enjoyed the advantage of having known Jesus longer than any of the other apostles.

James lived his life to the full, and when the end came, he bore himself with such grace and fortitude that even his accuser and informer, who attended his trial and execution, was so touched that he rushed away from the scene of James's death to join himself to the disciples of Jesus.

4) John Zebedee:

When he became an apostle, John was twenty-four years old and was the youngest of the twelve. He was unmarried and lived with his parents at Bethsaida; he was a fisherman and worked with his brother James in partnership with Andrew and Peter. Both before and after becoming an apostle, John functioned as the personal agent of Jesus in dealing with the Master's family, and he continued to bear this responsibility as long as Mary the mother of Jesus lived.

.11 This son of Zebedee was very closely associated with Peter in the early activities of the Christian movement, becoming one of the chief supporters of the Jerusalem church. He was the right-hand support of Peter on the day of Pentecost.

139:4.12 Several years after the martyrdom of James, John married his brother's widow. The last twenty years of his life he was cared for by a loving granddaughter.

139:4.13 John was in prison several times and was banished to the Isle of Patmos for a period of four years until another emperor came to power in Rome. Had not John been tactful and sagacious, he would undoubtedly have been killed as was his more outspoken brother James. As the years passed, John, together with James the Lord's brother, learned to practice wise conciliation when they appeared before the civil magistrates. They found that a "soft answer turns away wrath." They also learned to represent the church as a "spiritual brotherhood devoted to the social service of mankind" rather than as "the kingdom of heaven." They taught loving service rather than ruling power— kingdom and king.

139:4.14 When in temporary exile on Patmos, John wrote the Book of Revelation, which you now have in greatly abridged and distorted form. This Book of Revelation contains the surviving fragments of a great revelation, large portions of which were lost, other portions of which were removed, subsequent to John's writing. It is preserved in only fragmentary and adulterated form.

139:4.15 John traveled much, labored incessantly, and after becoming bishop of the Asia churches, settled down at Ephesus. He directed his associate, Nathan, in the writing of the so-called "Gospel according to John," at Ephesus, when he was ninety-nine years old. Of all the twelve apostles, John Zebedee eventually became the outstanding theologian. He died a natural death at Ephesus in A.D. 103 when he was one hundred and one years of age.

5) Philip the Curious:

Philip was the fifth apostle to be chosen, being called when Jesus and his first four apostles were on their way from John's rendezvous on the Jordan to Cana of Galilee. Since he lived at Bethsaida, Philip had for some time known of Jesus, but it had not occurred to him that Jesus was a really great man until that day in the Jordan valley when he said, "Follow me." Philip was also somewhat influenced by the fact that Andrew, Peter, James, and John had accepted Jesus as the Deliverer.

139:5.10 Philip went on through the trying times of the Master's death, participated in the reorganization of the twelve, and was the first to go forth to win souls for the kingdom outside of the immediate Jewish ranks, being most successful in his work for the Samaritans and in all his subsequent labors in behalf of the gospel.

139:5.11 Philip's wife, who was an efficient member of the women's corps, became actively associated with her husband in his evangelistic work after their flight from the Jerusalem persecutions. His wife was a fearless woman. She stood at the foot of Philip's cross encouraging him to proclaim the glad tidings even to his murderers, and when his strength failed, she began the recital of the story of salvation by faith in Jesus and was silenced only when the irate Jews rushed upon her and stoned her to death. Their eldest daughter, Leah, continued their work, later on becoming the renowned prophetess of Hierapolis.

139:5.12 Philip, the onetime steward of the twelve, was a mighty man in the kingdom, winning souls wherever he went; and he was finally crucified for his faith and buried at Hierapolis.

6) Honest Nathanial:

139:6.1 Nathaniel, the sixth and last of the apostles to be chosen by the Master himself, was brought to Jesus by his friend Philip. He had been associated in several business enterprises with Philip and, with him, was on the way down to see John the Baptist when they encountered Jesus.

139:6.2 When Nathaniel joined the apostles, he was twenty-five years old and was the next to the youngest of the group. He was the youngest of a family of seven, was unmarried, and the only support of aged and infirm parents, with whom he lived at Cana; his brothers and sister were either married or deceased, and none lived there. Nathaniel and Judas Iscariot were the two best educated men among the twelve. Nathaniel had thought to become a merchant.

139:6.9 Nathaniel's father (Bartholomew) died shortly after Pentecost, after which this apostle went into Mesopotamia and India proclaiming the glad tidings of the kingdom and baptizing believers. His brethren never knew what became of their onetime philosopher, poet, and humorist. But he also was a great man in the kingdom and did much to spread his Master's teachings, even though he did not participate in the organization of the subsequent Christian church. Nathaniel died in India.

7) Mattew Levi:

1 Matthew, the seventh apostle, was chosen by Andrew. Matthew belonged to a family of tax gatherers, or publicans, but was himself a customs collector in Capernaum, where he lived. He was thirty-one years old and married and had four children. He was a man of moderate wealth, the only one of any means belonging to the apostolic corps. He was a good business man, a good social mixer, and was gifted with the ability to make friends and to get along smoothly with a great variety of people.

When these persecutions caused the believers to forsake Jerusalem, Matthew journeyed north, preaching the gospel of the kingdom and baptizing believers. He was lost to the knowledge of his former apostolic associates, but on he went, preaching and baptizing, through Syria, Cappadocia, Galatia, Bithynia, and Thrace. And it was in Thrace, at Lysimachia, that certain unbelieving Jews conspired with the Roman soldiers to encompass his death. And this regenerated publican died triumphant in the faith of a salvation he had so surely learned from the teachings of the Master during his recent sojourn on earth.

8) Thomas Didymus:
1 Thomas was the eighth apostle, and he was chosen by Philip. In later times he has become known as "doubting Thomas," but his fellow apostles hardly looked upon him as a chronic doubter. True, his was a logical, skeptical type of mind, but he had a form of courageous loyalty which forbade those who knew him intimately to regard him as a trifling skeptic.

139:8.2 When Thomas joined the apostles, he was twenty-nine years old, was married, and had four children. Formerly he had been a carpenter and stone mason, but latterly he had become a fisherman and resided at Tarichea, situated on the west bank of the Jordan where it flows out of the Sea of Galilee, and he was regarded as the leading citizen of this little village. He had little education, but he possessed a keen, reasoning mind and was the son of excellent parents, who lived at Tiberias. Thomas had the one truly analytical mind of the twelve; he was the real scientist of the apostolic group.

Thomas had a trying time during the days of the trial and crucifixion. He was for a season in the depths of despair, but he rallied his courage, stuck to the apostles, and was present with them to welcome Jesus on the Sea of Galilee. For a while he succumbed to his doubting depression but eventually rallied his faith and courage. He gave wise counsel to the apostles after Pentecost and, when persecution scattered the believers, went to Cyprus, Crete, the North African coast, and Sicily, preaching the glad tidings of the kingdom and baptizing believers. And Thomas continued preaching and baptizing until he was apprehended by the agents of the Roman government and was put to death in Malta. Just a few weeks before his death he had begun the writing of the life and teachings of Jesus.

9 and 10. JAMES AND JUDAS ALPHEUS

James and Judas the sons of Alpheus, the twin fishermen living near Kheresa, were the ninth and tenth apostles and were chosen by James and John Zebedee. They were twenty-six years old and married, James having three children, Judas two.

139:9.2 There is not much to be said about these two commonplace fisherfolk. They loved their Master and Jesus loved them, but they never interrupted his discourses with questions. They understood very little about the philosophical discussions or the theological debates of their fellow apostles, but they rejoiced to find themselves numbered among such a group of mighty men. These two men were almost identical in personal appearance, mental characteristics, and extent of spiritual perception. What may be said of one should be recorded of the other.

The twins served faithfully until the end, until the dark days of trial, crucifixion, and despair. They never lost their heart faith in Jesus, and (save John) they were the first to believe in his resurrection. But they could not comprehend the establishment of the kingdom. Soon after their Master was crucified, they returned to their families and nets; their work was done. They had not the ability to go on in the more complex battles of the kingdom. But they lived and died conscious of having been honored and blessed with four years of close and personal association with a Son of God, the sovereign maker of a universe.

11) Simon the Zealot:

11.1 Simon Zelotes, the eleventh apostle, was chosen by Simon Peter. He was an able man of good ancestry and lived with his family at Capernaum. He was twenty-eight years old when he became attached to the apostles. He was a fiery agitator and was also a man who spoke much without thinking. He had been a merchant in Capernaum before he turned his entire attention to the patriotic organization of the Zealots.

12) Judas Iscariot:

139:12.1 Judas Iscariot, the twelfth apostle, was chosen by Nathaniel. He was born in Kerioth, a small town in southern Judea. When he was a lad, his parents moved to Jericho, where he lived and had been employed in his father's various business enterprises until he became interested in the preaching and work of John the Baptist. Judas's parents were Sadducees, and when their son joined John's disciples, they disowned him.

Judas was an only son of unwise parents. When very young, he was pampered and petted; he was a spoiled child. As he grew up, he had exaggerated ideas about his self-importance. He was a poor loser. He had loose and distorted ideas about fairness; he was given to the indulgence of hate and suspicion. He was an expert at misinterpretation of the words and acts of his friends. All through his life Judas had cultivated the habit of getting even with those whom he fancied had mistreated him. His sense of values and loyalties was defective.

139:12.7 To Jesus, Judas was a faith adventure. From the beginning the Master fully understood the weakness of this apostle and well knew the dangers of admitting him to fellowship. But it is the nature of the Sons of God to give every created being a full and equal chance for salvation and survival. Jesus wanted not only the mortals of this world but the onlookers of innumerable other worlds to know that, when doubts exist as to the sincerity and wholeheartedness of a creature's devotion to the kingdom, it is the invariable practice of the Judges of men fully to receive the doubtful candidate. The door of eternal life is wide open to all; "whosoever will may come"; there are no restrictions or qualifications save the faith of the one who comes.

139:12.8 This is just the reason why Jesus permitted Judas to go on to the very end, always doing everything possible to transform and save this weak and confused apostle. But when light is not honestly received and lived up to, it tends to become darkness within the soul. Judas grew intellectually regarding Jesus' teachings about the kingdom, but he did not make progress in the acquirement of spiritual character as did the other apostles. He failed to make satisfactory personal progress in spiritual experience.

139:12.9 Judas became increasingly a brooder over personal disappointment, and finally he became a victim of resentment. His feelings had been many times hurt, and he grew abnormally suspicious of his best friends, even of the Master. Presently he became obsessed with the idea of getting even, anything to avenge himself, yes, even betrayal of his associates and his Master.

139:12.10 But these wicked and dangerous ideas did not take definite shape until the day when a grateful woman broke an expensive box of incense at Jesus' feet. This seemed wasteful to Judas, and when his public protest was so sweepingly disallowed by Jesus right there in the hearing of all, it was too much. That event determined the mobilization of all the accumulated hate, hurt, malice, prejudice, jealousy, and revenge of a lifetime, and he made up his mind to get even with he knew not whom; but he crystallized all the evil of his nature upon the one innocent person in all the sordid drama of his unfortunate life just because Jesus happened to be the chief actor in the episode which marked his passing from the progressive kingdom of light into that self-chosen domain of darkness.

139:12.11 The Master many times, both privately and publicly, had warned Judas that he was slipping, but divine warnings are usually useless in dealing with embittered human nature. Jesus did everything possible, consistent with man's moral freedom, to prevent Judas's choosing to go the wrong way. The great test finally came. The son of resentment failed; he yielded to the sour and sordid dictates of a proud and vengeful mind of exaggerated self-importance and swiftly plunged on down into confusion, despair, and depravity.

139:12.12 Judas then entered into the base and shameful intrigue to betray his Lord and Master and quickly carried the nefarious scheme into effect. During the outworking of his anger-conceived plans of traitorous betrayal, he experienced moments of regret and shame, and in these lucid intervals he faint-heartedly conceived, as a defense in his own mind, the idea that Jesus might possibly exert his power and deliver himself at the last moment.

139:12.13 When the sordid and sinful business was all over, this renegade mortal, who thought lightly of selling his friend for thirty pieces of silver to satisfy his long-nursed craving for revenge, rushed out and committed the final act in the drama of fleeing from the realities of mortal existence— suicide.

139:12.14 The eleven apostles were horrified, stunned. Jesus regarded the betrayer only with pity. The worlds have found it difficult to forgive Judas, and his name has become eschewed throughout a far-flung universe.
-

Aimiel
July 14th, 2010, 10:29 AM
Dude,

TOL is NOT for cut-n-paste. We're supposed to post relevant stuff (long posts are frowned upon) and then make personal observations / comments. Copy and paste is too impersonal.

OK?

:thumb:

Caino
July 14th, 2010, 11:07 AM
Dude,

TOL is NOT for cut-n-paste. We're supposed to post relevant stuff (long posts are frowned upon) and then make personal observations / comments. Copy and paste is too impersonal.

OK?

*NO! As a rule people who are to lazy to read a page already having their mind made up before they read and should not participate in a forum that requires reading!!!!! (was that to long?)

* You always say the same robotic stuff anyway so perhaps you should make up a rule for brain washed, intolerant robots who have an automated response.

* It wouldn’t matter if the post is long or short, your mind is sealed so don’t read the thread or comment that would solve "your problem".




Caino

Aimiel
July 14th, 2010, 11:13 AM
Solve what problem? :chuckle:

I'm not close-minded, but my mind is focused on Truth, not imaginary gods and false nonsense or demonic doctrine from someone in a trance.

John Mortimer
July 14th, 2010, 11:36 AM
Hi John. Most of the planets religious texts and 'scripture' are way older than the UB. One could take the term 'out of date' as meaning 'obsolete', - I'm sure you didnt mean it that way,...as all inspired writings are to be taken for their meaning, value, integrity, spiritual worth, etc.


Well, it depends upon the level of the receiving consciousness. There are many aspects of the various old testament revelations that are indeed obsolete due to the fact that the collective consciousness of this planet has risen considerably since the times of those revelations. The same can be said of the New Testament in fact.



The UB is considered the latest and current 'epochal revelation' to this planet.

...only by those who decide to accept the claim made for the UB by the UB.



It appears epochal revelations come around at least every few millennia(Jesus bestowal-mission being the last one) so this one is still comparatively 'fresh' (given 80 years ago)-

Well that is an assertion - but it's not one that I personally accept.

Also, there is an enormous difference between Jesus' ministry 2,000 years ago and the UB. Jesus came to be a living, breathing demonstration of the Logos in embodiment; he did not encourage his followers to go around with a body of teaching in detailed written form.
Even the New Testament, which emerged from the event of Jesus the Christ by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is hardly a detailed and systematic textbook like the UB.




Its an interesting tome indeed! The revelators used the knowledge of mankind and its terms at that time, only bringing in new concepts or words if necessary in their presentation. (see Foreword).


Yes, and this is something that we see in the NT also. There were many new concepts that were introduced that required certain words to be used in a radically new way.

A really striking example in the UB is the introduction of the word, "Absonite".



In any case, once one 'gets' the basic terms, structure and cosmology they can integrate the greater picture of evolutionary progress and details of the path of eternal progression relative to the soul's journey. - while the UB has its own peculiar nuances and nomenclature........

It goes way beyond peculiar nuances and nomenclature, though, Paul. There is a vast and very intricate structure to the whole thing which is completely new.



.......its universal knowledge is consonant with human experience in every all fields of knowledge.

That's a decision each individual has to make. I don't think I could endorse its universal knowledge claim, (for that is what it is), as consonant with all of my particular human experience.




:) - just different schools using different terms, language-symbols and sometimes varying meanings within relationships and context...yet all these are ever relating. Wonderful isnt it?


There is indeed a great deal of interrelation between the substance of the Ascended Master Schools and the UB. However I would add a word of caution here... neither system of thought is infallible and there are very real differences in substance. It is easy to get caught up in the positive resonances of congruence and begin to create a belief that different schools are really saying the same thing at the end of the day. The flip side, of course, is to focus on the differences and then end up in a dualistic frame of mind, being convinced that on this-or-that point the UB is true and the AM schools in error or vice versa.

I think the UB is an astonishing work in and of itself, and I think there are many people who would derive huge benefit from it. As with anything else it is vital to take what you can from it and then move on to higher understandings and deeper self mastery.

Caino
July 14th, 2010, 11:59 AM
......."not imaginary gods and false nonsense or demonic doctrine from someone in a trance"......... or a carpenter from Nazareth. Can anything good come out of Nazareth?:confused:





Caino

Aimiel
July 14th, 2010, 12:36 PM
Jesus was born in Bethlehem. :duh:

freelight
July 14th, 2010, 12:59 PM
I think the UB is an astonishing work in and of itself, and I think there are many people who would derive huge benefit from it. As with anything else it is vital to take what you can from it and then move on to higher understandings and deeper self mastery.

:)

Bingo.

Each ray of light gives new reflections on the diamond as a whole. I may revive my ET Theology thread and add a video or two on the Law of One (http://www.llresearch.org/publications/pub_the_law_of_one_book_1.aspx) sessions with Carla L. Rueckert... another great current in our more modern times. The Wingmakers (http://www.wingmakers.com/) material is also a great correlary to the UB, in cosmology and philosophy.

Cosmic blessings!



pj

Caino
July 14th, 2010, 01:05 PM
oops, I forgot to include what happened to Simon:

139:11.9 The Master had many talks with Simon, but he never fully succeeded in making an internationalist out of this ardent Jewish nationalist. Jesus often told Simon that it was proper to want to see the social, economic, and political orders improved, but he would always add: "That is not the business of the kingdom of heaven. We must be dedicated to the doing of the Father's will. Our business is to be ambassadors of a spiritual government on high, and we must not immediately concern ourselves with aught but the representation of the will and character of the divine Father who stands at the head of the government whose credentials we bear." It was all difficult for Simon to comprehend, but gradually he began to grasp something of the meaning of the Master's teaching.

139:11.10 After the dispersion because of the Jerusalem persecutions, Simon went into temporary retirement. He was literally crushed. As a nationalist patriot he had surrendered in deference to Jesus' teachings; now all was lost. He was in despair, but in a few years he rallied his hopes and went forth to proclaim the gospel of the kingdom.

139:11.11 He went to Alexandria and, after working up the Nile, penetrated into the heart of Africa, everywhere preaching the gospel of Jesus and baptizing believers. Thus he labored until he was an old man and feeble. And he died and was buried in the heart of Africa.


Caino

freelight
July 14th, 2010, 01:33 PM
oops, I forgot to include what happened to Simon:

139:11.9 The Master had many talks with Simon, but he never fully succeeded in making an internationalist out of this ardent Jewish nationalist. Jesus often told Simon that it was proper to want to see the social, economic, and political orders improved, but he would always add: "That is not the business of the kingdom of heaven. We must be dedicated to the doing of the Father's will. Our business is to be ambassadors of a spiritual government on high, and we must not immediately concern ourselves with aught but the representation of the will and character of the divine Father who stands at the head of the government whose credentials we bear." It was all difficult for Simon to comprehend, but gradually he began to grasp something of the meaning of the Master's teaching.

139:11.10 After the dispersion because of the Jerusalem persecutions, Simon went into temporary retirement. He was literally crushed. As a nationalist patriot he had surrendered in deference to Jesus' teachings; now all was lost. He was in despair, but in a few years he rallied his hopes and went forth to proclaim the gospel of the kingdom.

139:11.11 He went to Alexandria and, after working up the Nile, penetrated into the heart of Africa, everywhere preaching the gospel of Jesus and baptizing believers. Thus he labored until he was an old man and feeble. And he died and was buried in the heart of Africa.


Caino

We assume you mean 'Simon the Zealot' and not 'Simon Peter'.

In any case as our recent threads on Peter continue,....one of our threads is about Peter never going to Rome or never being buried in Rome,...however the UB seems to agree that Peter was at least crucified in Rome. - this could be because the revelators had access to the accepted tradition of this? Or can we trust their 'approval' of this as 'actual fact'? There is controversy if some bones found in Rome are actually Peters or not. (the papers mention nothing of where Peter was buried however).

The Catholic claim of the keys of the kingdom being given exclusively to Peter has been contested elsewhere. In your readings, do you find Jesus giving any particular apostle a special 'anointing of leadership' or 'keys of power' in regards to the kingdom or that would give Peter any special status?



pj

Caino
July 14th, 2010, 01:53 PM
We assume you mean 'Simon the Zealot' and not 'Simon Peter'.

In any case as our recent threads on Peter continue,....one of our threads is about Peter never going to Rome or never being buried in Rome,...however the UB seems to agree that Peter was at least crucified in Rome. - this could be because the revelators had access to the accepted tradition of this? Or can we trust their 'approval' of this as 'actual fact'? There is controversy if some bones found in Rome are actually Peters or not. (the papers mention nothing of where Peter was buried however).

The Catholic claim of the keys of the kingdom being given exclusively to Peter has been contested elsewhere. In your readings, do you find Jesus giving any particular apostle a special 'anointing of leadership' or 'keys of power' in regards to the kingdom or that would give Peter any special status?



pj

Hi Freelight,

As it turns out I answered this same issue on a Peter thread eirlier today:

.....It's because the Rock wasn’t Peter, the rock was the faith based fact and statement by Jesus that the identity of the Jesus as the Son of God was revealed by God the Father. That was the faith based foundation which Jesus referred to as "The Rock", the faith upon which the spiritual kingdom was built. When the account of this scene was written about years later it became confused, besides, Paul ended up being far more influential.

On another occasion Jesus said "the kingdom of heaven is within you". He didn’t say the RCC is within you.

We have an issue of context as to what Jesus was referring to. Read the Biblical account then the UB account and decide for yourself.

NIV

13When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"

14 They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."

15"But what about you?" he asked. "[COLOR="Red"]Who do you (all the apostles) say I am?"

16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,[b] the Son of the living God."

17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter,[c] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[d] will not overcome it.[e] 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[f] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[g] loosed in heaven." 20Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.
"This rock" does not so much refer to Peter as the faith based fact that God the Father revealed the identity.

*..."give you the keys to the kingdom" is in context to the body of belivers who by faith enter the kingdom, not just Peter.


* Peter was indeed crucified in Rome and his wife thrown to the wild beast in the Roman arena (that is according to the Urantia revelation of which I am a student).

* It is my fervent belief and a matter of rather obvious historical account that Jesus has fostered the Christian church as the best exponent of his life work. But this does not mean that the physical, social institution is perfect or always open to the leading of Christ.

* The fellowship of believers in God is really an invisible brotherhood, not necessarily bricks and mortar or human authority, rather God ruleing in the hearts of faithful men and women.


UB account:

4.4 After they had partaken of their meal and were engaged in discussing plans for the forthcoming tour of the Decapolis, Jesus suddenly looked up into their faces and said: "Now that a full day has passed since you assented to Simon Peter's declaration regarding the identity of the Son of Man, I would ask if you still hold to your decision?" On hearing this, the twelve stood upon their feet, and Simon Peter, stepping a few paces forward toward Jesus, said: "Yes, Master, we do. We believe that you are the Son of the living God." And Peter sat down with his brethren.

157:4.5 Jesus, still standing, then said to the twelve: "You are my chosen ambassadors, but I know that, in the circumstances, you could not entertain this belief as a result of mere human knowledge. This is a revelation of the spirit of my Father to your inmost souls. And when, therefore, you make this confession by the insight of the spirit of my Father which dwells within you, I am led to declare that upon this foundation will I build the brotherhood of the kingdom of heaven. Upon this rock of spiritual reality will I build the living temple of spiritual fellowship in the eternal realities of my Father's kingdom. All the forces of evil and the hosts of sin shall not prevail against this human fraternity of the divine spirit. And while my Father's spirit shall ever be the divine guide and mentor of all who enter the bonds of this spirit fellowship, to you and your successors I now deliver the keys of the outward kingdom—the authority over things temporal—the social and economic features of this association of men and women as fellows of the kingdom." And again he charged them, for the time being, that they should tell no man that he was the Son of God.

157:4.6 Jesus was beginning to have faith in the loyalty and integrity of his apostles. The Master conceived that a faith which could stand what his chosen representatives had recently passed through would undoubtedly endure the fiery trials which were just ahead and emerge from the apparent wreckage of all their hopes into the new light of a new dispensation and thereby be able to go forth to enlighten a world sitting in darkness. On this day the Master began to believe in the faith of his apostles, save one.

157:4.7 And ever since that day this same Jesus has been building that living temple upon that same eternal foundation of his divine sonship, and those who thereby become self-conscious sons of God are the human stones which constitute this living temple of sonship erecting to the glory and honor of the wisdom and love of the eternal Father of spirits.



Caino

freelight
July 14th, 2010, 02:48 PM
UB account:

4.4 After they had partaken of their meal and were engaged in discussing plans for the forthcoming tour of the Decapolis, Jesus suddenly looked up into their faces and said: "Now that a full day has passed since you assented to Simon Peter's declaration regarding the identity of the Son of Man, I would ask if you still hold to your decision?" On hearing this, the twelve stood upon their feet, and Simon Peter, stepping a few paces forward toward Jesus, said: "Yes, Master, we do. We believe that you are the Son of the living God." And Peter sat down with his brethren.

157:4.5 Jesus, still standing, then said to the twelve: "You are my chosen ambassadors, but I know that, in the circumstances, you could not entertain this belief as a result of mere human knowledge. This is a revelation of the spirit of my Father to your inmost souls. And when, therefore, you make this confession by the insight of the spirit of my Father which dwells within you, I am led to declare that upon this foundation will I build the brotherhood of the kingdom of heaven. Upon this rock of spiritual reality will I build the living temple of spiritual fellowship in the eternal realities of my Father's kingdom. All the forces of evil and the hosts of sin shall not prevail against this human fraternity of the divine spirit. And while my Father's spirit shall ever be the divine guide and mentor of all who enter the bonds of this spirit fellowship, to you and your successors I now deliver the keys of the outward kingdom—the authority over things temporal—the social and economic features of this association of men and women as fellows of the kingdom." And again he charged them, for the time being, that they should tell no man that he was the Son of God.



:thumb:

Jesus gives us the keys to both the 'inner' and 'outer' kingdom, for in truth they are 'One', reflecting each other in 'substance' and 'form'...where all is an expression of Spirit.



pj

Aimiel
July 14th, 2010, 03:23 PM
You guys don't receive ANYTHING from The Lord, that's a FACT.

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Following false gods, but expecting to receive wisdom (or anything for that matter) from The Lord is pure foolishness.

Caino
July 15th, 2010, 10:59 AM
The age and creation of our "local universe"


THE ANDRONOVER NEBULA

57:1.1 Urantia is of origin in your sun, and your sun is one of the multifarious offspring of the Andronover nebula, which was onetime organized as a component part of the physical power and material matter of the local universe of Nebadon. And this great nebula itself took origin in the universal force-charge of space in the superuniverse of Orvonton, long, long ago.

57:1.2 At the time of the beginning of this recital, the Primary Master Force Organizers of Paradise had long been in full control of the space-energies which were later organized as the Andronover nebula.

57:1.3 987,000,000,000 years ago associate force organizer and then acting inspector number 811,307 of the Orvonton series, traveling out from Uversa, reported to the Ancients of Days that space conditions were favorable for the initiation of materialization phenomena in a certain sector of the, then, easterly segment of Orvonton.

57:1.4 900,000,000,000 years ago, the Uversa archives testify, there was recorded a permit issued by the Uversa Council of Equilibrium to the superuniverse government authorizing the dispatch of a force organizer and staff to the region previously designated by inspector number 811,307. The Orvonton authorities commissioned the original discoverer of this potential universe to execute the mandate of the Ancients of Days calling for the organization of a new material creation.

57:1.5 The recording of this permit signifies that the force organizer and staff had already departed from Uversa on the long journey to that easterly space sector where they were subsequently to engage in those protracted activities which would terminate in the emergence of a new physical creation in Orvonton.

57:1.6 875,000,000,000 years ago the enormous Andronover nebula number 876,926 was duly initiated. Only the presence of the force organizer and the liaison staff was required to inaugurate the energy whirl which eventually grew into this vast cyclone of space. Subsequent to the initiation of such nebular revolutions, the living force organizers simply withdraw at right angles to the plane of the revolutionary disk, and from that time forward, the inherent qualities of energy insure the progressive and orderly evolution of such a new physical system.

57:1.7 At about this time the narrative shifts to the functioning of the personalities of the superuniverse. In reality the story has its proper beginning at this point—at just about the time the Paradise force organizers are preparing to withdraw, having made the space-energy conditions ready for the action of the power directors and physical controllers of the superuniverse of Orvonton.


http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1304#U57_1_1




Caino

freelight
July 15th, 2010, 07:47 PM
The age and creation of our "local universe"



THE ANDRONOVER NEBULA

57:1.1 Urantia is of origin in your sun, and your sun is one of the multifarious offspring of the Andronover nebula, which was onetime organized as a component part of the physical power and material matter of the local universe of Nebadon. And this great nebula itself took origin in the universal force-charge of space in the superuniverse of Orvonton, long, long ago.

57:1.2 At the time of the beginning of this recital, the Primary Master Force Organizers of Paradise had long been in full control of the space-energies which were later organized as the Andronover nebula.

57:1.3 987,000,000,000 years ago associate force organizer and then acting inspector number 811,307 of the Orvonton series, traveling out from Uversa, reported to the Ancients of Days that space conditions were favorable for the initiation of materialization phenomena in a certain sector of the, then, easterly segment of Orvonton.

57:1.4 900,000,000,000 years ago, the Uversa archives testify, there was recorded a permit issued by the Uversa Council of Equilibrium to the superuniverse government authorizing the dispatch of a force organizer and staff to the region previously designated by inspector number 811,307. The Orvonton authorities commissioned the original discoverer of this potential universe to execute the mandate of the Ancients of Days calling for the organization of a new material creation.

57:1.5 The recording of this permit signifies that the force organizer and staff had already departed from Uversa on the long journey to that easterly space sector where they were subsequently to engage in those protracted activities which would terminate in the emergence of a new physical creation in Orvonton.

57:1.6 875,000,000,000 years ago the enormous Andronover nebula number 876,926 was duly initiated. Only the presence of the force organizer and the liaison staff was required to inaugurate the energy whirl which eventually grew into this vast cyclone of space. Subsequent to the initiation of such nebular revolutions, the living force organizers simply withdraw at right angles to the plane of the revolutionary disk, and from that time forward, the inherent qualities of energy insure the progressive and orderly evolution of such a new physical system.

57:1.7 At about this time the narrative shifts to the functioning of the personalities of the superuniverse. In reality the story has its proper beginning at this point—at just about the time the Paradise force organizers are preparing to withdraw, having made the space-energy conditions ready for the action of the power directors and physical controllers of the superuniverse of Orvonton.


xhttp://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1304#U57_4_5


Caino


It is wonderful the various orders of cosmic beings and angelic ministers that the Papers describe who serve in their special ways within 'creation'....and those who assist evolving mortals progressing in their 'ascension'. Each ascending mortal has at least one guardian angel.



pj

freelight
July 15th, 2010, 08:10 PM
~*~*~


wtQHsxHvYHg


Video brought to you by SquareCircles (http://www.squarecircles.com/), another great Urantian Resource with critical studies on the Papers. (Its only 6 minutes to view and read, presenting the basic route of the soul towards its Paradise Home, union with the Universal Father).





pj

Caino
July 16th, 2010, 08:41 AM
Thanks Freelight, good stuff.


C

Caino
July 16th, 2010, 08:50 AM
THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN





SATURDAY AFTERNOON, March 11, Jesus preached his last sermon at Pella. This was among the notable addresses of his public ministry, embracing a full and complete discussion of the kingdom of heaven. He was aware of the confusion which existed in the minds of his apostles and disciples regarding the meaning and significance of the terms "kingdom of heaven" and "kingdom of God," which he used as interchangeable designations of his bestowal mission. Although the very term kingdom of heaven should have been enough to separate what it stood for from all connection with earthly kingdoms and temporal governments, it was not. The idea of a temporal king was too deep-rooted in the Jewish mind thus to be dislodged in a single generation. Therefore Jesus did not at first openly oppose this long-nourished concept of the kingdom.

170:0.2 This Sabbath afternoon the Master sought to clarify the teaching about the kingdom of heaven; he discussed the subject from every viewpoint and endeavored to make clear the many different senses in which the term had been used. In this narrative we will amplify the address by adding numerous statements made by Jesus on previous occasions and by including some remarks made only to the apostles during the evening discussions of this same day. We will also make certain comments dealing with the subsequent outworking of the kingdom idea as it is related to the later Christian church.



1. CONCEPTS OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN

170:1.1 In connection with the recital of Jesus' sermon it should be noted that throughout the Hebrew scriptures there was a dual concept of the kingdom of heaven. The prophets presented the kingdom of God as:
170:1.2 1. A present reality; and as
170:1.3 2. A future hope—when the kingdom would be realized in fullness upon the appearance of the Messiah. This is the kingdom concept which John the Baptist taught.

170:1.4 From the very first Jesus and the apostles taught both of these concepts. There were two other ideas of the kingdom which should be borne in mind:
170:1.5 3. The later Jewish concept of a world-wide and transcendental kingdom of supernatural origin and miraculous inauguration.
170:1.6 4. The Persian teachings portraying the establishment of a divine kingdom as the achievement of the triumph of good over evil at the end of the world.

170:1.7 Just before the advent of Jesus on earth, the Jews combined and confused all of these ideas of the kingdom into their apocalyptic concept of the Messiah's coming to establish the age of the Jewish triumph, the eternal age of God's supreme rule on earth, the new world, the era in which all mankind would worship Yahweh. In choosing to utilize this concept of the kingdom of heaven, Jesus elected to appropriate the most vital and culminating heritage of both the Jewish and Persian religions.

170:1.8 The kingdom of heaven, as it has been understood and misunderstood down through the centuries of the Christian era, embraced four distinct groups of ideas:
1. The concept of the Jews.
2. The concept of the Persians.
3. The personal-experience concept of Jesus— "the kingdom of heaven within you."
4. The composite and confused concepts which the founders and promulgators of Christianity have sought to impress upon the world.

170:1.9 At different times and in varying circumstances it appears that Jesus may have presented numerous concepts of the "kingdom" in his public teachings, but to his apostles he always taught the kingdom as embracing man's personal experience in relation to his fellows on earth and to the Father in heaven. Concerning the kingdom, his last word always was, "The kingdom is within you."

170:1.10 Centuries of confusion regarding the meaning of the term "kingdom of heaven" have been due to three factors:
1. The confusion occasioned by observing the idea of the "kingdom" as it passed through the various progressive phases of its recasting by Jesus and his apostles.
2. The confusion which was inevitably associated with the transplantation of early Christianity from a Jewish to a gentile soil.
3. The confusion which was inherent in the fact that Christianity became a religion which was organized about the central idea of Jesus' person; the gospel of the kingdom became more and more a religion about him......

http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1422


Caino

Yazichestvo
July 18th, 2010, 10:42 PM
The video talking about the gradual ascent toward the central universe is tickling my "parallel finding" senses. I'm reminded of Mithraism and Gnosticism.

"Certain Christians, having misunderstood the words of Plato, loudly boast of a ’super-celestial’ God thus ascending beyond the heaven of the Jews. These things are obscurely hinted at in the accounts of the Persians, and especially in the mysteries of Mithras, which are celebrated amongst them. For in the latter there is a representation of the two heavenly revolutions,—of the movement, viz., of the fixed stars, and of that which take place among the planets, and of the passage of the soul through these. The representation is of the following nature: There is a ladder with lofty gates, and on the top of it an eighth gate. The first gate consists of lead, the second of tin, the third of copper, the fourth of iron, the fifth of a mixture of metals, the sixth of silver, and the seventh of gold."
- Celsus, True Doctrine

Porphyry describes the Mithraic mysteries in a similar way, speaking of ascension through the stars by seven degrees of initiation (Raven, bridegroom, soldier, lion, persian, sun-runner, and father.) and even goes back to Pythagoras' notion that the milky way was the abode of souls, and the place they descended to Earth from. Of course, it was much earlier, so they based it on a primitive notion of seven nearby heavenly bodies.

Caino
July 19th, 2010, 07:14 AM
The Pastoral Stage



Prepastoral society was one of sex co-operation, but the spread of animal husbandry reduced women to the depths of social slavery. In earlier times it was man's duty to secure the animal food, woman's business to provide the vegetable edibles. Therefore, when man entered the pastoral era of his existence, woman's dignity fell greatly. She must still toil to produce the vegetable necessities of life, whereas the man need only go to his herds to provide an abundance of animal food. Man thus became relatively independent of woman; throughout the entire pastoral age woman's status steadily declined. By the close of this era she had become scarcely more than a human animal, consigned to work and to bear human offspring, much as the animals of the herd were expected to labor and bring forth young. The men of the pastoral ages had great love for their cattle; all the more pity they could not have developed a deeper affection for their wives.


THE WOMEN’S EVANGELISTIC CORPS

"Of all the daring things which Jesus did in connection with his earth career, the most amazing was his sudden announcement on the evening of January 16: “On the morrow we will set apart ten women for the ministering work of the kingdom.” At the beginning of the two weeks’ period during which the apostles and the evangelists were to be absent from Bethsaida on their furlough, Jesus requested David to summon his parents back to their home and to dispatch messengers calling to Bethsaida ten devout women who had served in the administration of the former encampment and the tented infirmary. These women had all listened to the instruction given the young evangelists, but it had never occurred to either themselves or their teachers that Jesus would dare to commission women to teach the gospel of the kingdom and minister to the sick. These ten women selected and commissioned by Jesus were: Susanna, the daughter of the former chazan of the Nazareth synagogue; Joanna, the wife of Chuza, the steward of Herod Antipas; Elizabeth, the daughter of a wealthy Jew of Tiberias and Sepphoris; Martha, the elder sister of Andrew and Peter; Rachel, the sister-in-law of Jude, the Master’s brother in the flesh; Nasanta, the daughter of Elman, the Syrian physician; Milcha, a cousin of the Apostle Thomas; Ruth, the eldest daughter of Matthew Levi; Celta, the daughter of a Roman centurion; and Agaman, a widow of Damascus. Subsequently, Jesus added two other women to this group — Mary Magdalene and Rebecca, the daughter of Joseph of Arimathea."


"It was most astounding in that day, when women were not even allowed on the main floor of the synagogue (being confined to the women’s gallery), to behold them being recognized as authorized teachers of the new gospel of the kingdom. The charge which Jesus gave these ten women as he set them apart for gospel teaching and ministry was the emancipation proclamation which set free all women and for all time; no more was man to look upon woman as his spiritual inferior. This was a decided shock to even the twelve apostles. Notwithstanding they had many times heard the Master say that “in the kingdom of heaven there is neither rich nor poor, free nor bond, male nor female, all are equally the sons and daughters of God,” they were literally stunned when he proposed formally to commission these ten women as religious teachers and even to permit their traveling about with them. The whole country was stirred up by this proceeding, the enemies of Jesus making great capital out of this move, but everywhere the women believers in the good news stood stanchly behind their chosen sisters and voiced no uncertain approval of this tardy acknowledgment of woman’s place in religious work. And this liberation of women, giving them due recognition, was practiced by the apostles immediately after the Master’s departure, albeit they fell back to the olden customs in subsequent generations. Throughout the early days of the Christian church women teachers and ministers were called deaconesses and were accorded general recognition. But Paul, despite the fact that he conceded all this in theory, never really incorporated it into his own attitude and personally found it difficult to carry out in practice."




Caino

Stuu
July 19th, 2010, 07:37 AM
Tell us more about these masters of the universe that live on planet Uvula.

Did they invent gravity before Newton did?

Stuart

Caino
July 19th, 2010, 08:29 AM
Tell us more about these masters of the universe that live on planet Uvula.

Did they invent gravity before Newton did?

Stuart

"The gravity forces of the material universes are convergent in the gravity center of nether Paradise."

......maybe you meant to say that Newton "discovered" gravity?

Hi Stuu,

Lets compare the two concepts, the general dim view of life by atheist:

"Once apon a time, there was a really dence heavy little ball (which invented itself?), this ball exploded, the univese was formed, life happened, it means nothing, we all die"!

The End

....is all personality or mind controled by gravity (which Newton invented)?


8. MATTER, MIND, AND SPIRIT

12:8.1 "God is spirit," but Paradise is not. The material universe is always the arena wherein take place all spiritual activities; spirit beings and spirit ascenders live and work on physical spheres of material reality.

12:8.2 The bestowal of cosmic force, the domain of cosmic gravity, is the function of the Isle of Paradise. All original force-energy proceeds from Paradise, and the matter for the making of untold universes now circulates throughout the master universe in the form of a supergravity presence which constitutes the force-charge of pervaded space.

12:8.3 Whatever the transformations of force in the outlying universes, having gone out from Paradise, it journeys on subject to the never-ending, ever-present, unfailing pull of the eternal Isle, obediently and inherently swinging on forever around the eternal space paths of the universes. Physical energy is the one reality which is true and steadfast in its obedience to universal law. Only in the realms of creature volition has there been deviation from the divine paths and the original plans. Power and energy are the universal evidences of the stability, constancy, and eternity of the central Isle of Paradise.

12:8.4 The bestowal of spirit and the spiritualization of personalities, the domain of spiritual gravity, is the realm of the Eternal Son. And this spirit gravity of the Son, ever drawing all spiritual realities to himself, is just as real and absolute as is the all-powerful material grasp of the Isle of Paradise. But material-minded man is naturally more familiar with the material manifestations of a physical nature than with the equally real and mighty operations of a spiritual nature which are discerned only by the spiritual insight of the soul.

12:8.5 As the mind of any personality in the universe becomes more spiritual—Godlike—it becomes less responsive to material gravity. Reality, measured by physical-gravity response, is the antithesis of reality as determined by quality of spirit content. Physical-gravity action is a quantitative determiner of nonspirit energy; spiritual-gravity action is the qualitative measure of the living energy of divinity.

12:8.6 What Paradise is to the physical creation, and what the Eternal Son is to the spiritual universe, the Conjoint Actor is to the realms of mind—the intelligent universe of material, morontial, and spiritual beings and personalities.

12:8.7 The Conjoint Actor reacts to both material and spiritual realities and therefore inherently becomes the universal minister to all intelligent beings, beings who may represent a union of both the material and spiritual phases of creation. The endowment of intelligence, the ministry to the material and the spiritual in the phenomenon of mind, is the exclusive domain of the Conjoint Actor, who thus becomes the partner of the spiritual mind, the essence of the morontia mind, and the substance of the material mind of the evolutionary creatures of time.

12:8.8 Mind is the technique whereby spirit realities become experiential to creature personalities. And in the last analysis the unifying possibilities of even human mind, the ability to co-ordinate things, ideas, and values, is supermaterial.

12:8.9 Though it is hardly possible for the mortal mind to comprehend the seven levels of relative cosmic reality, the human intellect should be able to grasp much of the meaning of three functioning levels of finite reality:

12:8.10 1. Matter. Organized energy which is subject to linear gravity except as it is modified by motion and conditioned by mind.

12:8.11 2. Mind. Organized consciousness which is not wholly subject to material gravity, and which becomes truly liberated when modified by spirit.

12:8.12 3. Spirit. The highest personal reality. True spirit is not subject to physical gravity but eventually becomes the motivating influence of all evolving energy systems of personality dignity.

12:8.13 The goal of existence of all personalities is spirit; material manifestations are relative, and the cosmic mind intervenes between these universal opposites. The bestowal of mind and the ministration of spirit are the work of the associate persons of Deity, the Infinite Spirit and the Eternal Son. Total Deity reality is not mind but spirit-mind—mind-spirit unified by personality. Nevertheless the absolutes of both the spirit and the thing converge in the person of the Universal Father.

12:8.14 On Paradise the three energies, physical, mindal, and spiritual, are co-ordinate. In the evolutionary cosmos energy-matter is dominant except in personality, where spirit, through the mediation of mind, is striving for the mastery. Spirit is the fundamental reality of the personality experience of all creatures because God is spirit. Spirit is unchanging, and therefore, in all personality relations, it transcends both mind and matter, which are experiential variables of progressive attainment.

12:8.15 In cosmic evolution matter becomes a philosophic shadow cast by mind in the presence of spirit luminosity of divine enlightenment, but this does not invalidate the reality of matter-energy. Mind, matter, and spirit are equally real, but they are not of equal value to personality in the attainment of divinity. Consciousness of divinity is a progressive spiritual experience.

12:8.16 The brighter the shining of the spiritualized personality (the Father in the universe, the fragment of potential spirit personality in the individual creature), the greater the shadow cast by the intervening mind upon its material investment. In time, man's body is just as real as mind or spirit, but in death, both mind (identity) and spirit survive while the body does not. A cosmic reality can be nonexistent in personality experience. And so your Greek figure of speech—the material as the shadow of the more real spirit substance—does have a philosophic significance.



...I like the UB explanation better.



Caino

Caino
July 20th, 2010, 10:52 AM
Adam and Eve, who were they, where did they come from, and where are they now?

ADAM AND EVE


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


ADAM AND EVE arrived on Urantia, from the year A.D. 1934, 37,848 years ago. It was in midseason when the Garden was in the height of bloom that they arrived. At high noon and unannounced, the two seraphic transports, accompanied by the Jerusem personnel intrusted with the transportation of the biologic uplifters to Urantia, settled slowly to the surface of the revolving planet in the vicinity of the temple of the Universal Father. All the work of rematerializing the bodies of Adam and Eve was carried on within the precincts of this newly created shrine. And from the time of their arrival ten days passed before they were re-created in dual human form for presentation as the world's new rulers. They regained consciousness simultaneously. The Material Sons and Daughters always serve together. It is the essence of their service at all times and in all places never to be separated. They are designed to work in pairs; seldom do they function alone.



1. ADAM AND EVE ON JERUSEM

74:1.1 The Planetary Adam and Eve of Urantia were members of the senior corps of Material Sons on Jerusem, being jointly number 14,311. They belonged to the third physical series and were a little more than eight feet in height.

74:1.2 At the time Adam was chosen to come to Urantia, he was employed, with his mate, in the trial-and-testing physical laboratories of Jerusem. For more than fifteen thousand years they had been directors of the division of experimental energy as applied to the modification of living forms. Long before this they had been teachers in the citizenship schools for new arrivals on Jerusem. And all this should be borne in mind in connection with the narration of their subsequent conduct on Urantia.

74:1.3 When the proclamation was issued calling for volunteers for the mission of Adamic adventure on Urantia, the entire senior corps of Material Sons and Daughters volunteered. The Melchizedek examiners, with the approval of Lanaforge and the Most Highs of Edentia, finally selected the Adam and Eve who subsequently came to function as the biologic uplifters of Urantia.

74:1.4 Adam and Eve had remained loyal to Michael during the Lucifer rebellion; nevertheless, the pair were called before the System Sovereign and his entire cabinet for examination and instruction. The details of Urantia affairs were fully presented; they were exhaustively instructed as to the plans to be pursued in accepting the responsibilities of rulership on such a strife-torn world. They were put under joint oaths of allegiance to the Most Highs of Edentia and to Michael of Salvington. And they were duly advised to regard themselves as subject to the Urantia corps of Melchizedek receivers until that governing body should see fit to relinquish rule on the world of their assignment.

74:1.5 This Jerusem pair left behind them on the capital of Satania and elsewhere, one hundred offspring—fifty sons and fifty daughters—magnificent creatures who had escaped the pitfalls of progression, and who were all in commission as faithful stewards of universe trust at the time of their parents' departure for Urantia. And they were all present in the beautiful temple of the Material Sons attendant upon the farewell exercises associated with the last ceremonies of the bestowal acceptance. These children accompanied their parents to the dematerialization headquarters of their order and were the last to bid them farewell and divine speed as they fell asleep in the personality lapse of consciousness which precedes the preparation for seraphic transport. The children spent some time together at the family rendezvous rejoicing that their parents were soon to become the visible heads, in reality the sole rulers, of planet 606 in the system of Satania.

74:1.6 And thus did Adam and Eve leave Jerusem amidst the acclaim and well-wishing of its citizens. They went forth to their new responsibilities adequately equipped and fully instructed concerning every duty and danger to be encountered on Urantia.....


http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1321#U74_0_1



Caino

Stuu
July 21st, 2010, 04:34 AM
I didn't ask about all those idiots. I asked about the people of Uvula. Did they inherit the 7th dimension and laid the foundations for their invention of gravity or not??

Stuart

Caino
July 21st, 2010, 06:55 AM
I didn't ask about all those idiots. I asked about the people of Uvula. Did they inherit the 7th dimension and laid the foundations for their invention of gravity or not??

Stuart

The "Uvula" is just behind the border of the soft palate, it's not a planet in the UB that I know of.

It’s "the meek" that shall inherit the earth as faith and righteousness will eventually prevail in the ages to come. Your pessimistic doctrines will be all but forgotten.:bang:

But God does exist on 7 different levels of reality, is that what you’re referring to?

It really is nice to hear from you again, you’re a good guy at heart; your EGO is just too over developed.

What you need is an Opterectomy. That’s an operation you can have when ones optical never is connected to the rectal nerve, giving one a shitty outlook on life.



Caino

Caino
July 21st, 2010, 01:12 PM
More scientific validation of the Urantia revelation.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/jul/07/first-humans-britain-stone-tools

July 7, 2010

“First humans arrived in Britain 250,000 years earlier than thought The discovery of flint tools near the Eastern shores of England, indicate a superiors race of humans”

“A spectacular haul of ancient flint tools has been recovered from a beach in Norfolk, pushing back the date of the first known human occupation of Britain by up to 250,000 years.
While digging along the north-east coast of East Anglia near the village of Happisburgh, archaeologists discovered 78 pieces of razor-sharp flint shaped into primitive cutting and piercing tools.

The stone tools were unearthed from sediments that are thought to have been laid down either 840,000 or 950,000 years ago, making them the oldest human artefacts ever found in Britain…The early settlers would have walked into Britain across an ancient land bridge that once divided the North Sea from the Atlantic and connected the country to what is now mainland Europe. The first humans probably arrived during a warm interglacial period, but may have retreated as temperatures plummeted in subsequent ice ages.”

“…Analysis of ancient vegetation and pollen in the sediments has revealed that the climate was warm but cooling towards an ice age, which points to two possible times in history, around 840,000 years ago, or 950,000 years ago. Both dates are consistent with the fossilised remains of animals recovered from the same site.”


What did the Urantia Book say about the Foxhall people somwhere between 1911-34????????

http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1311#U64_2_5


THE FOXHALL PEOPLES

64:2.1 900,000 years ago the arts of Andon and Fonta and the culture of Onagar were vanishing from the face of the earth; culture, religion, and even flintworking were at their lowest ebb.

64:2.2 These were the times when large numbers of inferior mongrel groups were arriving in England from southern France. These tribes were so largely mixed with the forest apelike creatures that they were scarcely human. They had no religion but were crude flintworkers and possessed sufficient intelligence to kindle fire.

64:2.3 They were followed in Europe by a somewhat superior and prolific people, whose descendants soon spread over the entire continent from the ice in the north to the Alps and Mediterranean in the south. These tribes are the so-called Heidleberg race.

64:2.4 During this long period of cultural decadence the Foxhall peoples of England and the Badonan tribes northwest of India continued to hold on to some of the traditions of Andon and certain remnants of the culture of Onagar.

64:2.5 The Foxhall peoples were farthest west and succeeded in retaining much of the Andonic culture; they also preserved their knowledge of flintworking, which they transmitted to their descendants, the ancient ancestors of the Eskimos

64:2.6 Though the remains of the Foxhall peoples were the last to be discovered in England, these Andonites were really the first human beings to live in those regions. At that time the land bridge still connected France with England; and since most of the early settlements of the Andon descendants were located along the rivers and seashores of that early day, they are now under the waters of the English Channel and the North Sea. but some three or four are still above water on the English coast.

64:2.7 Many of the more intelligent and spiritual of the Foxhall peoples maintained their racial superiority and perpetuated their primitive religious customs. And these people, as they were later admixed with subsequent stocks, journeyed on west from England after a later ice visitation and have survived as the present-day Eskimos.


Its ok Stuu, I feel your pain!!! Do you think that one day you could resign from the debating society, open up your friggen mind and have a civil conversation with me? I’m not associated with this book because I’m some stupid brain washed religious idiot!




Caino

Caino
July 23rd, 2010, 06:15 AM
Scientific validation of the timeline for Adam and Eve’s genetic upgrades into our gene pool.



UB the News web site
http://www.ubthenews.com/index.htm


Adam and Eve Summary

[Updated 10/3/09]

"For the most part, The Urantia Book’s story about Adam and Eve differs considerably from the one found in the Old Testament. However, both accounts have three things in common: 1) a specific couple, living a long time ago in the Mesopotamia region, had a significant impact on humanity, 2) this couple behaved in a way that caused a big problem, and 3) the behavior problem precipitated the need to leave their original location.

According to The Urantia Book, which was published in 1955, the first human beings (roughly corresponding to Homo erectus) evolved about 1,000,000 years ago. It also recounts that almost 38,000 years ago Adam and Eve introduced some genetic upgrades into our gene pool, which enhanced brain function and resistance to disease (roughly corresponding with Homo sapiens sapiens). The authors extensively recount the development of the civilization that Adam and Eve started and how their descendants migrated around the world and mixed with other races. The Urantia Book provides specific information regarding time periods, places, degree of admixture with other races, and the impact on language and other aspects of culture.

Starting in 2004 numerous reports started to be published relating to portions of the Y chromosome and the Microcephalin gene. The Microcephalin gene play a critical role in the growth of the brain. The research results closely correlate with what The Urantia Book says about the spread of the genetic and cultural contributions of Adam and Eve. The research into Microcephalin indicates that new genetic material was introduced into the Microcephalin gene about 37,000 years ago and that the rest of the Microcephalin gene was approximately 990,000 years old. None of the obvious explanations for how new material might have been introduced fit well with the results of the research. It then spread into most of the human population quite rapidly, excepting sub-Saharan Africa. Similarly, Y chromosome related studies also document how some types of mutations or other changes occurred around 40,000 years ago, originating in the Mesopotamia region, and spreading quickly into most of humanity, excepting sub-Saharan Africa.

Follow up research comparing the spread of the introduction of new addition to the Microcephalin gene with the use of nontonal languages also showed a strong positive correlation. These correlations also track well with the migrations of Adam and Eve’s descendants. Bruce Lahn, from the Howard Hughes Medical Institute at the University of Chicago and the lead researcher responsible for the studies on the Microcephalin gene, is no longer working in this area, having become discouraged because the research results and their interpretation further enflamed what is already such a controversial issue. See Eugenics, Race, and The Urantia Book for a comprehensive review of The Urantia Book’s statements on this subject. Support for The Urantia Book’s story about Adam and Eve is also documented in the Garden of Eden Report and the Gobekli Tepe Report."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gods will for Adam and Eve:

"The Adamic progeny never amalgamate with the inferior strains of the evolutionary races. Neither is it the divine plan for the Planetary Adam or Eve to mate, personally, with the evolutionary peoples. This race-improvement project is the task of their progeny. But the offspring of the Material Son and Daughter are mobilized for generations before the racial-amalgamation ministry is inaugurated." UB


THE TEMPTATION OF EVE

75:3.1 Adam had just finished his first one hundred years on earth when Serapatatia, upon the death of his father, came to the leadership of the western or Syrian confederation of the Nodite tribes. Serapatatia was a brown-tinted man, a brilliant descendant of the onetime chief of the Dalamatia commission on health mated with one of the master female minds of the blue race of those distant days. All down through the ages this line had held authority and wielded a great influence among the western Nodite tribes.

75:3.2 Serapatatia had made several visits to the Garden and had become deeply impressed with the righteousness of Adam's cause. And shortly after assuming the leadership of the Syrian Nodites, he announced his intention of establishing an affiliation with the work of Adam and Eve in the Garden. The majority of his people joined him in this program, and Adam was cheered by the news that the most powerful and the most intelligent of all the neighboring tribes had swung over almost bodily to the support of the program for world improvement; it was decidedly heartening. And shortly after this great event, Serapatatia and his new staff were entertained by Adam and Eve in their own home.

75:3.3 Serapatatia became one of the most able and efficient of all of Adam's lieutenants. He was entirely honest and thoroughly sincere in all of his activities; he was never conscious, even later on, that he was being used as a circumstantial tool of the wily Caligastia.

75:3.4 Presently, Serapatatia became the associate chairman of the Edenic commission on tribal relations, and many plans were laid for the more vigorous prosecution of the work of winning the remote tribes to the cause of the Garden.

75:3.5 He held many conferences with Adam and Eve—especially with Eve—and they talked over many plans for improving their methods. One day, during a talk with Eve, it occurred to Serapatatia that it would be very helpful if, while awaiting the recruiting of large numbers of the violet race, something could be done in the meantime immediately to advance the needy waiting tribes. Serapatatia contended that, if the Nodites, as the most progressive and co-operative race, could have a leader born to them of part origin in the violet stock, it would constitute a powerful tie binding these peoples more closely to the Garden. And all of this was soberly and honestly considered to be for the good of the world since this child, to be reared and educated in the Garden, would exert a great influence for good over his father's people.

75:3.6 It should again be emphasized that Serapatatia was altogether honest and wholly sincere in all that he proposed. He never once suspected that he was playing into the hands of Caligastia and Daligastia. Serapatatia was entirely loyal to the plan of building up a strong reserve of the violet race before attempting the world-wide upstepping of the confused peoples of Urantia. But this would require hundreds of years to consummate, and he was impatient; he wanted to see some immediate results—something in his own lifetime. He made it clear to Eve that Adam was oftentimes discouraged by the little that had been accomplished toward uplifting the world.

75:3.7 For more than five years these plans were secretly matured. At last they had developed to the point where Eve consented to have a secret conference with Cano, the most brilliant mind and active leader of the near-by colony of friendly Nodites. Cano was very sympathetic with the Adamic regime; in fact, he was the sincere spiritual leader of those neighboring Nodites who favored friendly relations with the Garden.

75:3.8 The fateful meeting occurred during the twilight hours of the autumn evening, not far from the home of Adam. Eve had never before met the beautiful and enthusiastic Cano—and he was a magnificent specimen of the survival of the superior physique and outstanding intellect of his remote progenitors of the Prince's staff. And Cano also thoroughly believed in the righteousness of the Serapatatia project. (Outside of the Garden, multiple mating was a common practice.)

75:3.9 Influenced by flattery, enthusiasm, and great personal persuasion, Eve then and there consented to embark upon the much-discussed enterprise, to add her own little scheme of world saving to the larger and more far-reaching divine plan. Before she quite realized what was transpiring, the fatal step had been taken. It was done.

GEN 3

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it.




Caino

Stuu
July 23rd, 2010, 07:02 AM
So it is the Anthill people in charge. What dimension do they occupy? Do they have friggen minds, or just ordinary ones?

Stuart

Caino
July 23rd, 2010, 08:19 AM
So it is the Anthill people in charge. What dimension do they occupy? Do they have friggen minds, or just ordinary ones?

Stuart

Stuu, you’re not a serious seeker of truth or facts, not a real scientist at all. Your pessimistic world view is just as faith based as positive believers. Your afraid of anything that might disrupt your faith based theory.


Caino

Caino
July 25th, 2010, 06:26 AM
"If this were a mechanistic universe, if the First Great Source and Center were only a force and not also a personality, if all creation were a vast aggregation of physical matter dominated by precise laws characterized by unvarying energy actions, then might perfection obtain, even despite the incompleteness of universe status. There would be no disagreement; there would be no friction. But in our evolving universe of relative perfection and imperfection we rejoice that disagreement and misunderstanding are possible, for thereby is evidenced the fact and the act of personality in the universe. And if our creation is an existence dominated by personality, then can you be assured of the possibilities of personality survival, advancement, and achievement; we can be confident of personality growth, experience, and adventure. What a glorious universe, in that it is personal and progressive, not merely mechanical or even passively perfect!" UB



Caino

freelight
July 25th, 2010, 11:06 AM
"If this were a mechanistic universe, if the First Great Source and Center were only a force and not also a personality, if all creation were a vast aggregation of physical matter dominated by precise laws characterized by unvarying energy actions, then might perfection obtain, even despite the incompleteness of universe status. There would be no disagreement; there would be no friction. But in our evolving universe of relative perfection and imperfection we rejoice that disagreement and misunderstanding are possible, for thereby is evidenced the fact and the act of personality in the universe. And if our creation is an existence dominated by personality, then can you be assured of the possibilities of personality survival, advancement, and achievement; we can be confident of personality growth, experience, and adventure. What a glorious universe, in that it is personal and progressive, not merely mechanical or even passively perfect!" UB



Caino


Yes, 'personality' is a most 'wonderful' component intrinsic to an evolving soul, as long as it continues as a sentient being, actualizing its potential and purpose of existence. It is wonderful to contemplate the dynamics and innovation of 'personality' as it develops within a surviving soul, its various properties and unique identification, making a particular individual unlike any other in the universe.

The very first Paper (1) reveals the significance of 'personality'.

Paper 1 (http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p001.htm), The Universal Father (especially last 3 chapters)



Awesome stuff :)



pj

Stuu
July 27th, 2010, 05:46 AM
Stuu, you’re not a serious seeker of truth or facts, not a real scientist at all. Your pessimistic world view is just as faith based as positive believers. Your afraid of anything that might disrupt your faith based theory.


Caino
Well if you can't tell me about the Friggin Minded people, or the Uvulains of the seventh dimension, or the Anthill people, then you only have to say that you don't know. There's no shame in that.

Stuart

Caino
July 27th, 2010, 01:12 PM
Well if you can't tell me about the Friggin Minded people, or the Uvulains of the seventh dimension, or the Anthill people, then you only have to say that you don't know. There's no shame in that.

Stuart

Smile....I confess, I dont know those people.


C

Caino
July 27th, 2010, 01:16 PM
Abraham issues



AFTER MELCHIZEDEK'S DEPARTURE

93:9.1 It was a great trial for Abraham when Melchizedek so suddenly disappeared. Although he had fully warned his followers that he must sometime go as he had come, they were not reconciled to the loss of their wonderful leader. The great organization built up at Salem nearly disappeared, though the traditions of these days were what Moses built upon when he led the Hebrew slaves out of Egypt.

93:9.2 The loss of Melchizedek produced a sadness in the heart of Abraham that he never fully overcame. Hebron he had abandoned when he gave up the ambition of building a material kingdom; and now, upon the loss of his associate in the building of the spiritual kingdom, he departed from Salem, going south to live near his interests at Gerar.

93:9.3 Abraham became fearful and timid immediately after the disappearance of Melchizedek. He withheld his identity upon arrival at Gerar, so that Abimelech appropriated his wife. (Shortly after his marriage to Sarah, Abraham one night had overheard a plot to murder him in order to get his brilliant wife. This dread became a terror to the otherwise brave and daring leader; all his life he feared that someone would kill him secretly in order to get Sarah. And this explains why, on three separate occasions, this brave man exhibited real cowardice.)

93:9.4 But Abraham was not long to be deterred in his mission as the successor of Melchizedek. Soon he made converts among the Philistines and of Abimelech's people, made a treaty with them, and, in turn, became contaminated with many of their superstitions, particularly with their practice of sacrificing first-born sons. Thus did Abraham again become a great leader in Palestine. He was held in reverence by all groups and honored by all kings. He was the spiritual leader of all the surrounding tribes, and his influence continued for some time after his death. During the closing years of his life he once more returned to Hebron, the scene of his earlier activities and the place where he had worked in association with Melchizedek. Abraham's last act was to send trusty servants to the city of his brother, Nahor, on the border of Mesopotamia, to secure a woman of his own people as a wife for his son Isaac. It had long been the custom of Abraham's people to marry their cousins. And Abraham died confident in that faith in God which he had learned from Melchizedek in the vanished schools of Salem.

93:9.5 It was hard for the next generation to comprehend the story of Melchizedek; within five hundred years many regarded the whole narrative as a myth. Isaac held fairly well to the teachings of his father and nourished the gospel of the Salem colony, but it was harder for Jacob to grasp the significance of these traditions. Joseph was a firm believer in Melchizedek and was, largely because of this, regarded by his brothers as a dreamer. Joseph's honor in Egypt was chiefly due to the memory of his great-grandfather Abraham. Joseph was offered military command of the Egyptian armies, but being such a firm believer in the traditions of Melchizedek and the later teachings of Abraham and Isaac, he elected to serve as a civil administrator, believing that he could thus better labor for the advancement of the kingdom of heaven.

93:9.6 The teaching of Melchizedek was full and replete, but the records of these days seemed impossible and fantastic to the later Hebrew priests, although many had some understanding of these transactions, at least up to the times of the en masse editing of the Old Testament records in Babylon.

93:9.7 What the Old Testament records describe as conversations between Abraham and God were in reality conferences between Abraham and Melchizedek. Later scribes regarded the term Melchizedek as synonymous with God. The record of so many contacts of Abraham and Sarah with "the angel of the Lord" refers to their numerous visits with Melchizedek.

93:9.8 The Hebrew narratives of Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph are far more reliable than those about Abraham, although they also contain many diversions from the facts, alterations made intentionally and unintentionally at the time of the compilation of these records by the Hebrew priests during the Babylonian captivity. Keturah was not a wife of Abraham; like Hagar, she was merely a concubine. All of Abraham's property went to Isaac, the son of Sarah, the status wife. Abraham was not so old as the records indicate, and his wife was much younger. These ages were deliberately altered in order to provide for the subsequent alleged miraculous birth of Isaac.

93:9.9 The national ego of the Jews was tremendously depressed by the Babylonian captivity. In their reaction against national inferiority they swung to the other extreme of national and racial egotism, in which they distorted and perverted their traditions with the view of exalting themselves above all races as the chosen people of God; and hence they carefully edited all their records for the purpose of raising Abraham and their other national leaders high up above all other persons, not excepting Melchizedek himself. The Hebrew scribes therefore destroyed every record of these momentous times which they could find, preserving only the narrative of the meeting of Abraham and Melchizedek after the battle of Siddim, which they deemed reflected great honor upon Abraham.

93:9.10 And thus, in losing sight of Melchizedek, they also lost sight of the teaching of this emergency Son regarding the spiritual mission of the promised bestowal Son; lost sight of the nature of this mission so fully and completely that very few of their progeny were able or willing to recognize and receive Michael when he appeared on earth and in the flesh as Machiventa had foretold.

93:9.11 But one of the writers of the Book of Hebrews understood the mission of Melchizedek, for it is written: "This Melchizedek, priest of the Most High, was also king of peace; without father, without mother, without pedigree, having neither beginning of days nor end of life but made like a Son of God, he abides a priest continually." This writer designated Melchizedek as a type of the later bestowal of Michael, affirming that Jesus was "a minister forever on the order of Melchizedek." While this comparison was not altogether fortunate, it was literally true that Christ did receive provisional title to Urantia "upon the orders of the twelve Melchizedek receivers" on duty at the time of his world bestowal.



Caino

Caino
July 28th, 2010, 05:36 AM
SACRED AND PROFANE HISTORY

97:8.1 "The custom of looking upon the record of the experiences of the Hebrews as sacred history and upon the transactions of the rest of the world as profane history is responsible for much of the confusion existing in the human mind as to the interpretation of history. And this difficulty arises because there is no secular history of the Jews. After the priests of the Babylonians exile had prepared their new record of God's supposedly miraculous dealings with the Hebrews, the sacred history of Israel as portrayed in the Old Testament, they carefully and completely destroyed the existing records of Hebrew affairs—such books as "The Doings of the Kings of Israel" and "The Doings of the Kings of Judah," together with several other more or less accurate records of Hebrew history.

97:8.2 In order to understand how the devastating pressure and the inescapable coercion of secular history so terrorized the captive and alien-ruled Jews that they attempted the complete rewriting and recasting of their history, we should briefly survey the record of their perplexing national experience. It must be remembered that the Jews failed to evolve an adequate nontheologic philosophy of life. They struggled with their original and Egyptian concept of divine rewards for righteousness coupled with dire punishments for sin. The drama of Job was something of a protest against this erroneous philosophy. The frank pessimism of Ecclesiastes was a worldly wise reaction to these overoptimistic beliefs in Providence.

97:8.3 But five hundred years of the overlordship of alien rulers was too much for even the patient and long-suffering Jews. The prophets and priests began to cry: "How long, O Lord, how long?" As the honest Jew searched the Scriptures, his confusion became worse confounded. An olden seer promised that God would protect and deliver his "chosen people." Amos had threatened that God would abandon Israel unless they re-established their standards of national righteousness. The scribe of Deuteronomy had portrayed the Great Choice—as between the good and the evil, the blessing and the curse. Isaiah the first had preached a beneficent king-deliverer. Jeremiah had proclaimed an era of inner righteousness—the covenant written on the tablets of the heart. The second Isaiah talked about salvation by sacrifice and redemption. Ezekiel proclaimed deliverance through the service of devotion, and Ezra promised prosperity by adherence to the law. But in spite of all this they lingered on in bondage, and deliverance was deferred. Then Daniel presented the drama of the impending "crisis"—the smiting of the great image and the immediate establishment of the everlasting reign of righteousness, the Messianic kingdom.

97:8.4 And all of this false hope led to such a degree of racial disappointment and frustration that the leaders of the Jews were so confused they failed to recognize and accept the mission and ministry of a divine Son of Paradise when he presently came to them in the likeness of mortal flesh—incarnated as the Son of Man.

97:8.5 All modern religions have seriously blundered in the attempt to put a miraculous interpretation on certain epochs of human history. While it is true that God has many times thrust a Father's hand of providential intervention into the stream of human affairs, it is a mistake to regard theologic dogmas and religious superstition as a supernatural sedimentation appearing by miraculous action in this stream of human history. The fact that the "Most Highs rule in the kingdoms of men" does not convert secular history into so-called sacred history.

97:8.6 New Testament authors and later Christian writers further complicated the distortion of Hebrew history by their well-meant attempts to transcendentalize the Jewish prophets. Thus has Hebrew history been disastrously exploited by both Jewish and Christian writers. Secular Hebrew history has been thoroughly dogmatized. It has been converted into a fiction of sacred history and has become inextricably bound up with the moral concepts and religious teachings of the so-called Christian nations.

97:8.7 A brief recital of the high points in Hebrew history will illustrate how the facts of the record were so altered in Babylon by the Jewish priests as to turn the everyday secular history of their people into a fictitious and sacred history."


CONT>

Caino
July 28th, 2010, 05:38 AM
HEBREW HISTORY

97:9.1 There never were twelve tribes of the Israelite—only three or four tribes settled in Palestine. The Hebrew nation came into being as the result of the union of the so-called Israelites and the Canaanites. "And the children of Israel dwelt among the Canaanites. And they took their daughters to be their wives and gave their daughters to the sons of the Canaanites." The Hebrews never drove the Canaanites out of Palestine, notwithstanding that the priests' record of these things unhesitatingly declared that they did.

97:9.2 The Israelitish consciousness took origin in the hill country of Ephraim; the later Jewish consciousness originated in the southern clan of Judah. The Jews (Judahites) always sought to defame and blacken the record of the northern Israelite (Ephraimites).

97:9.3 Pretentious Hebrew history begins with Saul's rallying the northern clans to withstand an attack by the Ammonites upon their fellow tribesmen—the Gileadites—east of the Jordan. With an army of a little more than three thousand he defeated the enemy, and it was this exploit that led the hill tribes to make him king. When the exiled priests rewrote this story, they raised Saul's army to 330,000 and added "Judah" to the list of tribes participating in the battle.

97:9.4 Immediately following the defeat of the Ammonites, Saul was made king by popular election by his troops. No priest or prophet participated in this affair. But the priests later on put it in the record that Saul was crowned king by the prophet Samuel in accordance with divine directions. This they did in order to establish a "divine line of descent" for David's Judahite kingship.

97:9.5 The greatest of all distortions of Jewish history had to do with David. After Saul's victory over the Ammonites (which he ascribed to Yahweh) the Philistines became alarmed and began attacks on the northern clans. David and Saul never could agree. David with six hundred men entered into a Philistine alliance and marched up the coast to Esdraelon. At Gath the Philistines ordered David off the field; they feared he might go over to Saul. David retired; the Philistines attacked and defeated Saul. They could not have done this had David been loyal to Israel. David's army was a polyglot assortment of malcontents, being for the most part made up of social misfits and fugitives from justice.

97:9.6 Saul's tragic defeat at Gilboa by the Philistines brought Yahweh to a low point among the gods in the eyes of the surrounding Canaanites. Ordinarily, Saul's defeat would have been ascribed to apostasy from Yahweh, but this time the Judahite editors attributed it to ritual errors. They required the tradition of Saul and Samuel as a background for the kingship of David.

97:9.7 David with his small army made his headquarters at the non-Hebrew city of Hebron. Presently his compatriots proclaimed him king of the new kingdom of Judah. Judah was made up mostly of non-Hebrew elements—Kenites, Calebites, Jebusites, and other Canaanites. They were nomads—herders—and so were devoted to the Hebrew idea of land ownership. They held the ideologies of the desert clans.

97:9.8 The difference between sacred and profane history is well illustrated by the two differing stories concerning making David king as they are found in the Old Testament. A part of the secular story of how his immediate followers (his army) made him king was inadvertently left in the record by the priests who subsequently prepared the lengthy and prosaic account of the sacred history wherein is depicted how the prophet Samuel, by divine direction, selected David from among his brethren and proceeded formally and by elaborate and solemn ceremonies to anoint him king over the Hebrews and then to proclaim him Saul's successor.

97:9.9 So many times did the priests, after preparing their fictitious narratives of God's miraculous dealings with Israel, fail fully to delete the plain and matter-of-fact statements which already rested in the records.

97:9.10 David sought to build himself up politically by first marrying Saul's daughter, then the widow of Nabal the rich Edomite, and then the daughter of Talmai, the king of Geshur. He took six wives from the women of Jebus, not to mention Bathsheba, the wife of the Hittite.

97:9.11 And it was by such methods and out of such people that David built up the fiction of a divine kingdom of Judah as the successor of the heritage and traditions of the vanishing northern kingdom of Ephraimite Israel. David's cosmopolitan tribe of Judah was more gentile than Jewish; nevertheless the oppressed elders of Ephraim came down and "anointed him king of Israel." After a military threat, David then made a compact with the Jebusites and established his capital of the united kingdom at Jebus (Jerusalem), which was a strong-walled city midway between Judah and Israel. The Philistines were aroused and soon attacked David. After a fierce battle they were defeated, and once more Yahweh was established as "The Lord God of Hosts."

97:9.12 But Yahweh must, perforce, share some of this glory with the Canaanite gods, for the bulk of David's army was non-Hebrew. And so there appears in your record (overlooked by the Judahite editors) this telltale statement: "Yahweh has broken my enemies before me. Therefore he called the name of the place Baal-Perazim." And they did this because eighty per cent of David's soldiers were Baalites.

97:9.13 David explained Saul's defeat at Gilboa by pointing out that Saul had attacked a Canaanite city, Gibeon, whose people had a peace treaty with the Ephraimites. Because of this, Yahweh forsook him. Even in Saul's time David had defended the Canaanite city of Keilah against the Philistines, and then he located his capital in a Canaanite city. In keeping with the policy of compromise with the Canaanites, David turned seven of Saul's descendants over to the Gibeonites to be hanged.

97:9.14 After the defeat of the Philistines, David gained possession of the "ark of Yahweh," brought it to Jerusalem, and made the worship of Yahweh official for his kingdom. He next laid heavy tribute on the neighboring tribes—the Edomites, Moabites, Ammonites, and Syrians.

97:9.15 David's corrupt political machine began to get personal possession of land in the north in violation of the Hebrew mores and presently gained control of the caravan tariffs formerly collected by the Philistines. And then came a series of atrocities climaxed by the murder of Uriah. All judicial appeals were adjudicated at Jerusalem; no longer could "the elders" mete out justice. No wonder rebellion broke out. Today, Absalom might be called a demagogue; his mother was a Canaanite. There were a half dozen contenders for the throne besides the son of Bathsheba—Solomon.

97:9.16 After David's death Solomon purged the political machine of all northern influences but continued all of the tyranny and taxation of his father's regime. Solomon bankrupted the nation by his lavish court and by his elaborate building program: There was the house of Lebanon, the palace of Pharaoh's daughter, the temple of Yahweh, the king's palace, and the restoration of the walls of many cities. Solomon created a vast Hebrew navy, operated by Syrian sailors and trading with all the world. His harem numbered almost one thousand.

97:9.17 By this time Yahweh's temple at Shiloh was discredited, and all the worship of the nation was centered at Jebus in the gorgeous royal chapel. The northern kingdom returned more to the worship of Elohim. They enjoyed the favor of the Pharaohs, who later enslaved Judah, putting the southern kingdom under tribute.

97:9.18 There were ups and downs—wars between Israel and Judah. After four years of civil war and three dynasties, Israel fell under the rule of city despots who began to trade in land. Even King Omri attempted to buy Shemer's estate. But the end drew on apace when Shalmaneser III decided to control the Mediterranean coast. King Ahab of Ephraim gathered ten other groups and resisted at Karkar; the battle was a draw. The Assyrian was stopped but the allies were decimated. This great fight is not even mentioned in the Old Testament.

97:9.19 New trouble started when King Ahab tried to buy land from Naboth. His Phoenician wife forged Ahab's name to papers directing that Naboth's land be confiscated on the charge that he had blasphemed the names of "Elohim and the king." He and his sons were promptly executed. The vigorous Elijah appeared on the scene denouncing Ahab for the murder of the Naboths. Thus Elijah, one of the greatest of the prophets, began his teaching as a defender of the old land mores as against the land-selling attitude of the Baalim, against the attempt of the cities to dominate the country. But the reform did not succeed until the country landlord Jehu joined forces with the gypsy chieftain Jehonadab to destroy the prophets (real estate agents) of Baal at Samaria.

97:9.20 New life appeared as Jehoash and his son Jeroboam delivered Israel from its enemies. But by this time there ruled in Samaria a gangster-nobility whose depredations rivaled those of the Davidic dynasty of olden days. State and church went along hand in hand. The attempt to suppress freedom of speech led Elijah, Amos, and Hosea to begin their secret writing, and this was the real beginning of the Jewish and Christian Bibles.

97:9.21 But the northern kingdom did not vanish from history until the king of Israel conspired with the king of Egypt and refused to pay further tribute to Assyria. Then began the three years' siege followed by the total dispersion of the northern kingdom. Ephraim (Israel) thus vanished. Judah—the Jews, the "remnant of Israel"—had begun the concentration of land in the hands of the few, as Isaiah said, "Adding house to house and field to field." Presently there was in Jerusalem a temple of Baal alongside the temple of Yahweh. This reign of terror was ended by a monotheistic revolt led by the boy king Joash, who crusaded for Yahweh for thirty-five years.

97:9.22 The next king, Amaziah, had trouble with the revolting tax-paying Edomites and their neighbors. After a signal victory he turned to attack his northern neighbors and was just as signally defeated. Then the rural folk revolted; they assassinated the king and put his sixteen-year-old son on the throne. This was Azariah, called Uzziah by Isaiah. After Uzziah, things went from bad to worse, and Judah existed for a hundred years by paying tribute to the kings of Assyria. Isaiah the first told them that Jerusalem, being the city of Yahweh, would never fall. But Jeremiah did not hesitate to proclaim its downfall.

97:9.23 The real undoing of Judah was effected by a corrupt and rich ring of politicians operating under the rule of a boy king, Manasseh. The changing economy favored the return of the worship of Baal, whose private land dealings were against the ideology of Yahweh. The fall of Assyria and the ascendancy of Egypt brought deliverance to Judah for a time, and the country folk took over. Under Josiah they destroyed the Jerusalem ring of corrupt politicians.

97:9.24 But this era came to a tragic end when Josiah presumed to go out to intercept Necho's mighty army as it moved up the coast from Egypt for the aid of Assyria against Babylon. He was wiped out, and Judah went under tribute to Egypt. The Baal political party returned to power in Jerusalem, and thus began the real Egyptian bondage. Then ensued a period in which the Baalim politicians controlled both the courts and the priesthood. Baal worship was an economic and social system dealing with property rights as well as having to do with soil fertility.

97:9.25 With the overthrow of Necho by Nebuchadnezzar, Judah fell under the rule of Babylon and was given ten years of grace, but soon rebelled. When Nebuchadnezzar came against them, the Judahites started social reforms, such as releasing slaves, to influence Yahweh. When the Babylonian army temporarily withdrew, the Hebrews rejoiced that their magic of reform had delivered them. It was during this period that Jeremiah told them of the impending doom, and presently Nebuchadnezzar returned.

97:9.26 And so the end of Judah came suddenly. The city was destroyed, and the people were carried away into Babylon. The Yahweh-Baal struggle ended with the captivity. And the captivity shocked the remnant of Israel into monotheism.

97:9.27 In Babylon the Jews arrived at the conclusion that they could not exist as a small group in Palestine, having their own peculiar social and economic customs, and that, if their ideologies were to prevail, they must convert the gentiles. Thus originated their new concept of destiny—the idea that the Jews must become the chosen servants of Yahweh. The Jewish religion of the Old Testament really evolved in Babylon during the captivity.

97:9.28 The doctrine of immortality also took form at Babylon. The Jews had thought that the idea of the future life detracted from the emphasis of their gospel of social justice. Now for the first time theology displaced sociology and economics. Religion was taking shape as a system of human thought and conduct more and more to be separated from politics, sociology, and economics.

97:9.29 And so does the truth about the Jewish people disclose that much which has been regarded as sacred history turns out to be little more than the chronicle of ordinary profane history. Judaism was the soil out of which Christianity grew, but the Jews were not a miraculous people." UB 1955


Caino

Aimiel
July 28th, 2010, 06:07 AM
Legitimate Religion or Satan-inspired* Cult??

The Urantia can be classified as a cult largely due to their ex-biblical revelation and the fact that according to their teachings, the Lord Jesus Christ is considered a created spirit being, rather than the preexistent, second person of the Trinity, God the Son. The New Testament is full of warning concerning those who deny that Jesus Christ was God manifest in the flesh (e.g. 1 John 2:18-27, 2 John 7-11).

Like other cults, they engage in various semantic games in an effort to cloak and hide this fact. Their position is similar to the beliefs of Mormonism, Jehovah Witnesses, Christian Scientists, New Agers and others. The following direct quotes from the Urantia Book substantiate the fact:

The Eternal Son is the Original and only-begotten Son of God. He is God the Son, the Second Person of Deity and the associate creator of all things. p. 73.

As they function in the superuniverse of Orvonton, the Sons of God are classified under three general heads: 1) the descending Sons of God; 2) the ascending Sons of God; and the trinitized Sons of God. p. 223.

All descending Sons of God have high and divine origins. p. 223.

Of the numerous orders of descending Sons, seven will be depicted in these narratives. Those Sons who come forth from the Deities on the central Isle of Light and Life are called the Paradise Sons of God and embrace the following three orders: 1) Creator Sons--the Michaels; 2) Magisterial Sons--the Avonals; and 3) Trinity Teacher Sons--the Daynals. p. 223.

When a Son of the Eternal Son appeared on Urantia, those who fraternized with this divine being in human form alluded to him as "He who was from the beginning, whom we have heard, whom we have seen with our eyes, whom we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, even the Word of life." p.74. (The quote is from 1 John 1:1).

On your world, but not in your system of inhabited spheres, this Original Son has been confused with a co-ordinate Creator Son, Michael of Nebadon (Jesus of Nazareth), who bestowed himself upon the mortal races of Urantia. p. 74.

And from this prebestowal charge of Immanuel to the universe ruler who subsequently became Jesus of Nazareth (Christ Michael) on Urantia... p. 1325. (emphasis in bold mine).

Thus, for the Urantia cultist who sees 'descending orders of spirit beings', the Lord Jesus Christ is lower down this chain of created beings. Similar to the teachings of the Cambridge, Massachusetts based Scientology sub-cult "The Process" or the "Church of the Final Judgment," the Urantia Book views Satan and Jesus Christ as feuding angelic brothers. This can be documented in Paper #53 entitled, The Lucifer Rebellion.

* - "For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light." 2 Corinthians 11:13,14. -- SOURCE ARTICLE (http://withchrist.org/urantia.htm)

Aimiel
July 28th, 2010, 06:08 AM
Who Wrote the URANTIA Book?

The Urantia Book's clear mark of "demonic" authorship is its total lack of understanding regarding the Christian doctrine of sin or salvation. Judaism and Christianity are continuously portrayed as "primitive" religions practiced by "primitive men." The biblical concept of progressive revelation is exchanged for an evolutionary theory which is used to explain most religious differences. Of course, the Urantia religionists considers themselves at the top of this spiritual evolutionary chain. While the book quotes and paraphrases several portions of the Bible, distortions of key biblical truths are found throughout. For example, Paper #89, Sin, Sacrifice, and Atonement states:

As the savage mind evolved to that point where it envisaged both good and bad spirits, and when the taboo received the solemn sanction of evolving religion, the stage was all set for the appearance of the new conception of sin. p. 975

The concepts of substitutionary atonement and propitiation with blood are viewed by the Urantia as grotesque and grossly primitive.

Primitive man believed that something special must be done to win the favor of the gods; only advanced civilization recognizes a consistently even-tempered and benevolent God. p.974

Similar to other cults who deny the inherited consequences upon humanity of Adam and Eve's transgression, the gospel according to the Urantia speaks of:

the Fatherhood of God and the universal brotherhood of all men. p. 1085

and

God...who dwells, by his spirit, in every sincere human soul. p. 1453.

There are conflicting stories ["various histories"] regarding the origin of the Urantia Papers. According to long-time faithful, Ernest Moyer (author of a book on the group's beginnings entitled THE BIRTH OF A DIVINE REVELATION--The Mechanical Origin of the Urantia Papers), information similar to that found in the Urantia Book was communicated by various "spirit beings" using a male individual ("contact person") while that person slept (a.k.a. Sleeping Subject "SS"). This communication was but a preparatory exercise. Beginning 1905-11 and over a 20+ year period, divine "revelations" were hand-recorded by a Dr. William S. Sadler, a noted Chicago physician and psychiatrist. Dr. Sadler had extensive and close ties to the heretical Seventh Day Adventist sect/cult. Sadler is said to have engaged in conversations with "spirit visitors" as the SS functioned as an automatistic portal to a spiritual dimension. In Sadler's own words, SS was "sort of a clearing house for the coming and going of alleged extra-planetary personalities" i.e. angelic [demonic] beings. However, Sadler would later deny that these conversations were the source for what would later become the Papers. Moyer elaborately documents Sadler's ultimate claim--that the "final Papers appeared miraculously...out of thin air." "The actual Revelation by invisible divine agents was accomplished by placing the writing miraculously on paper in groups, or sets. The form was in handwriting which was then physically transcribed by Emma Christensen (Christy), a trained secretary and member of Sadler's family, into typewritten form. After proof reading for accuracy the original papers disappeared equally miraculously." See General Statement and A [not so] Brief Account. In another account, SS, in response to numerous written questions, is said to have delivered the Papers to Dr. Sadler. See THE URANTIA BOOK: A Brief Description and Its Secret Author Discovered, by Eric Pement, 1992.

Due to the extraordinary volume of detailed and complex information, it is difficult to conclude that the Urantia Book was the product of one or more inflated imaginations. While that is not out of the realm of possibility, a more plausible explanation is some form of genuine demonic influence. Similar to the claim for the Book of Mormon, divine revelation did not cease with the 66 canonical books of the Old and New Testaments. However, the Mormon product pales by comparison to the encyclopedic detail and complexity of the Urantia Book. The fact that the Urantia Book agrees with the Bible in certain areas confirms the fact that the author (human or demonic) had some level of understanding regarding spiritual themes. Further, while select statements found in the Urantia Book are not necessarily contradictory to the Bible, a number of critical topics are diametrically in disagreement with sound, orthodox Christian teaching. -- SOURCE ARTICLE (http://withchrist.org/urantia.htm)

Caino
July 28th, 2010, 08:31 AM
Legitimate Religion or Satan-inspired* Cult??

The Urantia can be classified as a cult largely due to their ex-biblical revelation and the fact that according to their teachings, the Lord Jesus Christ is considered a created spirit being, rather than the preexistent, second person of the Trinity, God the Son. The New Testament is full of warning concerning those who deny that Jesus Christ was God manifest in the flesh (e.g. 1 John 2:18-27, 2 John 7-11).

* Jesus didn’t say he was God the Father manifest in the flesh, he said he was "the Son of God" Divine yes, but he wasn’t the Father himself, rather Jesus was unified with the Father.


........pointless to go on, Aimiel is a typical pig headed Christian who is just as stubborn and self righteous as the people who killed Jesus.




Caino

Aimiel
July 28th, 2010, 08:46 AM
It is far better than being a pig-headed moron headed for hell in a handbasket, who believes the writings of a demon-possessed lunatic. :chuckle:

Caino
July 28th, 2010, 09:15 AM
It is far better than being a pig-headed moron headed for hell in a handbasket, who believes the writings of a demon-possessed lunatic. :chuckle:

Your heart is full of bigoted hate, intolerance and fear. There is nothing in your Satan obsessed writing that suggest you are with Christ.

..........and how was it that those demons went into the pigs but then the demons drowned?


Caino

Aimiel
July 28th, 2010, 09:32 AM
Your heart is full of bigoted hate, intolerance and fear. Your presumptions are obvious to eveyrone but yourself.
There is nothing in your Satan obsessed writing that suggest you are with Christ.You don't know Christ, then... you know a demon, who has substituted himself for The Lord, who calls himself: "Christ Spirit." It's a lying spirit. The Urantia Book has NO Truth in it. :duh:
...and how was it that those demons went into the pigs but then the demons drowned?Because they're self-defeating, just as you are. You're aligned with demonic doctrine and error, just as demons are. They aren't simply evil, they were deceived by Lucifer, just as you are. They believe the lie, just like you do: "You shall not surely die." Truth is: you shall die, and take part in the second death, which is hell; except you repent. Christ taught that, whether you believe that He did or not. It's recorded in The Holy Bible. Your denial of it doesn't make it go away.

Caino
July 28th, 2010, 11:16 AM
Your presumptions are obvious to eveyrone but yourself.You don't know Christ, then... you know a demon, who has substituted himself for The Lord, who calls himself: "Christ Spirit." It's a lying spirit. The Urantia Book has NO Truth in it. :duh:Because they're self-defeating, just as you are. You're aligned with demonic doctrine and error, just as demons are. They aren't simply evil, they were deceived by Lucifer, just as you are. They believe the lie, just like you do: "You shall not surely die." Truth is: you shall die, and take part in the second death, which is hell; except you repent. Christ taught that, whether you believe that He did or not. It's recorded in The Holy Bible. Your denial of it doesn't make it go away.

Aimeil, you need to get psychological help, religion has damaged you. You’re hiding your real problems behind your obsession with religion and the deep need to attempt to control others.


C

Aimiel
July 28th, 2010, 11:40 AM
Aimeil, you need to get psychological help, religion has damaged you. I don't believe in or partak of religion.
You’re hiding your real problems behind your obsession with religion and the deep need to attempt to control others.I don't have any problems, nor do I allow repression or manipulation to effect myself, or others for that matter (if I can help it, and often I can). You could be set free from the manipulation of the evil spirits that are stuck on you like glue, though; if you like. But that would require repentance, which is probably the LAST thing you'd submit to.

The Graphite
July 28th, 2010, 11:59 AM
....Your world, Urantia, is one of many similar inhabited planets which comprise the local universe ofNebadon. This universe, together with similar creations, makes up the superuniverse of Orvonton, from whose capital, Uversa, our commission hails. Orvonton is one of the seven evolutionary superuniverses of time and space which circle the never-beginning, never-ending creation of divine perfection—the central universe of Havona. At the heart of this eternal and central universe is the stationary Isle of Paradise, the geographic center of infinity and the dwelling place of the eternal God.

The seven evolving superuniverses in association with the central and divine universe, we commonly refer to as the grand universe; these are the now organized and inhabited creations. They are all a part of the master universe, which also embraces the uninhabited but mobilizing universes of outer space.

Caino
Wow.

First, who's going to direct the movie? James Cameron? I hope not Michael Bay. I think Zach Snyder might do a good job...

Second, the enlightened aliens won't be blue, will they? We already saw that. Pick a new color.

Third, will it be in 3-D? 'Cuz, 3-D is awesome, dude.

Aimiel
July 28th, 2010, 12:02 PM
They already did it, and called it: "The Chronicles of Riddick"... it was about the UB multi-verse cult preacher, whom Riddick killed at the end of the movie. :chuckle:

freelight
July 28th, 2010, 12:15 PM
93:9.11 But one of the writers of the Book of Hebrews understood the mission of Melchizedek, for it is written: "This Melchizedek, priest of the Most High, was also king of peace; without father, without mother, without pedigree, having neither beginning of days nor end of life but made like a Son of God, he abides a priest continually." This writer designated Melchizedek as a type of the later bestowal of Michael, affirming that Jesus was "a minister forever on the order of Melchizedek." While this comparison was not altogether fortunate, it was literally true that Christ did receive provisional title to Urantia "upon the orders of the twelve Melchizedek receivers" on duty at the time of his world bestowal.




Yes, the Papers speak much about Melchizedeks ministry in our planet's history, whose early role influenced most all religious streams onwards. The Order of Melchizedek is deeply embedded into the consciousness of Man, as a divine Son, a most high priesthood. Those of this order are ever engaged in divine service upholding peace and righteousness accentuating the values of 'faith' and 'trust'.

Machiventa Melchizedek (http://www.the-gift-of-revelation.com/melchizedek.html)




pj

Caino
July 28th, 2010, 12:39 PM
Machiventa Melchizedek

Hi Freelight,

The dead sea schrolls paint Melchizedek in an interesting light.



11Q13 2:2-10

2:2 And concerning what scripture says, “In [this] year of Jubilee [you shall return, every one of you, to your property” (Leviticus 25:13) and what is also written, “And this]

3 is the [ma]nner of [the remission:] every creditor shall remit the claim that is held [against a neighbor, not exacting it of a neighbor who is a member of the community, because God’s] remission [has been proclaimed” (Deuteronomy 15:2). ]

4 [The interpretation] is that it applies [to the L]ast Days and concerns the captives, just as [Isaiah said: “To proclaim the Jubilee to the captives” (Isaiah 61:1). … just] as

5 […] and from the inheritance of Melchizedek, f[or … Melchize]dek, who

6 will return them to what is rightfully theirs. He will proclaim to them the Jubilee, thereby releasing th[em from the debt of a]ll their sins. [He shall pro]claim this decree

7 in the fir[s]t [wee]k of the Jubilee period that foll[ows nine j]ubilee periods. Then the “D[ay of Atone]ment” shall follow af[ter] the [te]nth [ju]bilee period,

8 when he shall atone for all the Sons of [Light] and the peopl[e who are pre]destined to Mel[chi]zedek. […] upo[n the]m […] For

9 this is the time decreed for “the year of Melchiz[edek]’s favor” (Isaiah 61:2, modified), [and] by his might he w[i]ll judge God’s holy ones and so establish a righteous ki[n]gdom, as it is written

10 about him in the Songs of David, “A godlike being has taken his place in the council of God; in the midst of the divine beings he holds judgment” (Psalm 82:1).




11Q13 2:2-10

2:2 And concerning what scripture says, “In [this] year of Jubilee [you shall return, every one of you, to your property” (Leviticus 25:13) and what is also written, “And this]

3 is the [ma]nner of [the remission:] every creditor shall remit the claim that is held [against a neighbor, not exacting it of a neighbor who is a member of the community, because God’s] remission [has been proclaimed” (Deuteronomy 15:2). ]

4 [The interpretation] is that it applies [to the L]ast Days and concerns the captives, just as [Isaiah said: “To proclaim the Jubilee to the captives” (Isaiah 61:1). … just] as

5 […] and from the inheritance of Melchizedek, f[or … Melchize]dek, who

6 will return them to what is rightfully theirs. He will proclaim to them the Jubilee, thereby releasing th[em from the debt of a]ll their sins. [He shall pro]claim this decree

7 in the fir[s]t [wee]k of the Jubilee period that foll[ows nine j]ubilee periods. Then the “D[ay of Atone]ment” shall follow af[ter] the [te]nth [ju]bilee period,

8 when he shall atone for all the Sons of [Light] and the peopl[e who are pre]destined to Mel[chi]zedek. […] upo[n the]m […] For

9 this is the time decreed for “the year of Melchiz[edek]’s favor” (Isaiah 61:2, modified), [and] by his might he w[i]ll judge God’s holy ones and so establish a righteous ki[n]gdom, as it is written

10 about him in the Songs of David, “A godlike being has taken his place in the council of God; in the midst of the divine beings he holds judgment” (Psalm 82:1).

Caino
July 29th, 2010, 07:45 AM
The earth belongs to the living, not to the dead.

Thomas Jefferson


The moment a person forms a theory, his imagination sees in every object only the traits which favor that theory.

Thomas Jefferson

But friendship is precious, not only in the shade, but in the sunshine of life, and thanks to a benevolent arrangement the greater part of life is sunshine.

Thomas Jefferson

Difference of opinion is advantageous in religion. The several sects perform the office of a Censor - over each other.

Thomas Jefferson


Caino

Aimiel
July 29th, 2010, 08:20 AM
Referring to irksome New England federalists, Jefferson declared that "they are marked, like the Jews, with such a perversity of character, as to constitute, from that circumstance, the natural division of our parties. "

He was a presuming moron, when it comes to areas of faith, just as you are.

Caino
July 29th, 2010, 10:21 AM
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend.

Thomas Jefferson

It is in our lives and not our words that our religion must be read.

Thomas Jefferson


Resort is had to ridicule only when reason is against us.

Thomas Jefferson


Caino

Caino
July 30th, 2010, 05:51 AM
Did Jesus really walk on water?


SIMON PETER'S NIGHT VISION

152:4.1 The apostles, without their Master—sent off by themselves—entered the boat and in silence began to row toward Bethsaida on the western shore of the lake. None of the twelve was so crushed and downcast as Simon Peter. Hardly a word was spoken; they were all thinking of the Master alone in the hills. Had he forsaken them? He had never before sent them all away and refused to go with them. What could all this mean?

152:4.2 Darkness descended upon them, for there had arisen a strong and contrary wind which made progress almost impossible. As the hours of darkness and hard rowing passed, Peter grew weary and fell into a deep sleep of exhaustion. Andrew and James put him to rest on the cushioned seat in the stern of the boat. While the other apostles toiled against the wind and the waves, Peter dreamed a dream; he saw a vision of Jesus coming to them walking on the sea. When the Master seemed to walk on by the boat, Peter cried out, "Save us, Master, save us." And those who were in the rear of the boat heard him say some of these words. As this apparition of the night season continued in Peter's mind, he dreamed that he heard Jesus say: "Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid." This was like the balm of Gilead to Peter's disturbed soul; it soothed his troubled spirit, so that (in his dream) he cried out to the Master: "Lord, if it really is you, bid me come and walk with you on the water." And when Peter started to walk upon the water, the boisterous waves frightened him, and as he was about to sink, he cried out, "Lord, save me!" And many of the twelve heard him utter this cry. Then Peter dreamed that Jesus came to the rescue and, stretching forth his hand, took hold and lifted him up, saying: "O, you of little faith, wherefore did you doubt?"

152:4.3 In connection with the latter part of his dream Peter arose from the seat whereon he slept and actually stepped overboard and into the water. And he awakened from his dream as Andrew, James, and John reached down and pulled him out of the sea.

152:4.4 To Peter this experience was always real. He sincerely believed that Jesus came to them that night. He only partially convinced John Mark, which explains why Mark left a portion of the story out of his narrative. Luke, the physician, who made careful search into these matters, concluded that the episode was a vision of Peter's and therefore refused to give place to this story in the preparation of his narrative.


Caino

Caino
July 31st, 2010, 07:25 AM
How did demons drown?????



THE KHERESA LUNATIC

151:6.1 Although most of the near-by eastern shore of the lake sloped up gently to the highlands beyond, at this particular spot there was a steep hillside, the shore in some places dropping sheer down into the lake. Pointing up to the side of the near-by hill, Jesus said: "Let us go up on this hillside for our breakfast and under some of the shelters rest and talk."

151:6.2 This entire hillside was covered with caverns which had been hewn out of the rock. Many of these niches were ancient sepulchres. About halfway up the hillside on a small, relatively level spot was the cemetery of the little village of Kheresa. As Jesus and his associates passed near this burial ground, a lunatic who lived in these hillside caverns rushed up to them. This demented man was well known about these parts, having onetime been bound with fetters and chains and confined in one of the grottoes. Long since he had broken his shackles and now roamed at will among the tombs and abandoned sepulchres.

151:6.3 This man, whose name was Amos, was afflicted with a periodic form of insanity. There were considerable spells when he would find some clothing and deport himself fairly well among his fellows. During one of these lucid intervals he had gone over to Bethsaida, where he heard the preaching of Jesus and the apostles, and at that time had become a halfhearted believer in the gospel of the kingdom. But soon a stormy phase of his trouble appeared, and he fled to the tombs, where he moaned, cried out aloud, and so conducted himself as to terrorize all who chanced to meet him.

151:6.4 When Amos recognized Jesus, he fell down at his feet and exclaimed: "I know you, Jesus, but I am possessed of many devils, and I beseech that you will not torment me." This man truly believed that his periodic mental affliction was due to the fact that, at such times, evil or unclean spirits entered into him and dominated his mind and body. His troubles were mostly emotional—his brain was not grossly diseased.

151:6.5 Jesus, looking down upon the man crouching like an animal at his feet, reached down and, taking him by the hand, stood him up and said to him: "Amos, you are not possessed of a devil; you have already heard the good news that you are a son of God. I command you to come out of this spell." And when Amos heard Jesus speak these words, there occurred such a transformation in his intellect that he was immediately restored to his right mind and the normal control of his emotions. By this time a considerable crowd had assembled from the near-by village, and these people, augmented by the swine herders from the highland above them, were astonished to see the lunatic sitting with Jesus and his followers, in possession of his right mind and freely conversing with them.

151:6.6 As the swine herders rushed into the village to spread the news of the taming of the lunatic, the dogs charged upon a small and untended herd of about thirty swine and drove most of them over a precipice into the sea. And it was this incidental occurrence, in connection with the presence of Jesus and the supposed miraculous curing of the lunatic, that gave origin to the legend that Jesus had cured Amos by casting a legion of devils out of him, and that these devils had entered into the herd of swine, causing them forthwith to rush headlong to their destruction in the sea below. Before the day was over, this episode was published abroad by the swine tenders, and the whole village believed it. Amos most certainly believed this story; he saw the swine tumbling over the brow of the hill shortly after his troubled mind had quieted down, and he always believed that they carried with them the very evil spirits which had so long tormented and afflicted him. And this had a good deal to do with the permanency of his cure. It is equally true that all of Jesus' apostles (save Thomas) believed that the episode of the swine was directly connected with the cure of Amos.

151:6.7 Jesus did not obtain the rest he was looking for. Most of that day he was thronged by those who came in response to the word that Amos had been cured, and who were attracted by the story that the demons had gone out of the lunatic into the herd of swine. And so, after only one night of rest, early Tuesday morning Jesus and his friends were awakened by a delegation of these swine-raising gentiles who had come to urge that he depart from their midst. Said their spokesman to Peter and Andrew: "Fishermen of Galilee, depart from us and take your prophet with you. We know he is a holy man, but the gods of our country do not know him, and we stand in danger of losing many swine. The fear of you has descended upon us, so that we pray you to go hence." And when Jesus heard them, he said to Andrew, "Let us return to our place."

151:6.8 As they were about to depart, Amos besought Jesus to permit him to go back with them, but the Master would not consent. Said Jesus to Amos: "Forget not that you are a son of God. Return to your own people and show them what great things God has done for you." And Amos went about publishing that Jesus had cast a legion of devils out of his troubled soul, and that these evil spirits had entered into a herd of swine, driving them to quick destruction. And he did not stop until he had gone into all the cities of the Decapolis, declaring what great things Jesus had done for him.



Caino

Caino
August 1st, 2010, 05:47 AM
....."But, after all, who is my mother and who are my brothers?"

Probably one of the more confusing and misunderstood episodes in the Christian narrative about Jesus and his apparent rudeness towards his mother and family on one particular occasion.

Caino



JESUS' FAMILY ARRIVES

154:6.1 It was about eight o'clock on this Sunday morning when five members of Jesus' earth family arrived on the scene in response to the urgent summons of Jude's sister-in-law. Of all his family in the flesh, only one, Ruth, believed wholeheartedly and continuously in the divinity of his mission on earth. Jude and James, and even Joseph, still retained much of their faith in Jesus, but they had permitted pride to interfere with their better judgment and real spiritual inclinations. Mary was likewise torn between love and fear, between mother love and family pride. Though she was harassed by doubts, she could never quite forget the visit of Gabriel ere Jesus was born. The Pharisees had been laboring to persuade Mary that Jesus was beside himself, demented. They urged her to go with her sons and seek to dissuade him from further efforts at public teaching. They assured Mary that soon Jesus' health would break, and that only dishonor and disgrace could come upon the entire family as a result of allowing him to go on. And so, when the word came from Jude's sister-in-law, all five of them started at once for Zebedee's house, having been together at Mary's home, where they had met with the Pharisees the evening before. They had talked with the Jerusalem leaders long into the night, and all were more or less convinced that Jesus was acting strangely, that he had acted strangely for some time. While Ruth could not explain all of his conduct, she insisted that he had always treated his family fairly and refused to agree to the program of trying to dissuade him from further work.

154:6.2 On the way to Zebedee's house they talked these things over and agreed among themselves to try to persuade Jesus to come home with them, for, said Mary: "I know I could influence my son if he would only come home and listen to me." James and Jude had heard rumors concerning the plans to arrest Jesus and take him to Jerusalem for trial. They also feared for their own safety. As long as Jesus was a popular figure in the public eye, his family allowed matters to drift along, but now that the people of Capernaum and the leaders at Jerusalem had suddenly turned against him, they began keenly to feel the pressure of the supposed disgrace of their embarrassing position.

154:6.3 They had expected to meet Jesus, take him aside, and urge him to go home with them. They had thought to assure him that they would forget his neglect of them—they would forgive and forget—if he would only give up the foolishness of trying to preach a new religion which could bring only trouble to himself and dishonor upon his family. To all of this Ruth would say only: "I will tell my brother that I think he is a man of God, and that I hope he would be willing to die before he would allow these wicked Pharisees to stop his preaching." Joseph promised to keep Ruth quiet while the others labored with Jesus.

154:6.4 When they reached the Zebedee house, Jesus was in the very midst of delivering his parting address to the disciples. They sought to gain entrance to the house, but it was crowded to overflowing. Finally they established themselves on the back porch and had word passed in to Jesus, from person to person, so that it finally was whispered to him by Simon Peter, who interrupted his talking for the purpose, and who said: "Behold, your mother and your brothers are outside, and they are very anxious to speak with you." Now it did not occur to his mother how important was the giving of this parting message to his followers, neither did she know that his address was likely to be terminated any moment by the arrival of his apprehenders. She really thought, after so long an apparent estrangement, in view of the fact that she and his brothers had shown the grace actually to come to him, that Jesus would cease speaking and come to them the moment he received word they were waiting.

154:6.5 It was just another of those instances in which his earth family could not comprehend that he must be about his Father's business. And so Mary and his brothers were deeply hurt when, notwithstanding that he paused in his speaking to receive the message, instead of his rushing out to greet them, they heard his musical voice speak with increased volume: "Say to my mother and my brothers that they should have no fear for me. The Father who sent me into the world will not forsake me; neither shall any harm come upon my family. Bid them be of good courage and put their trust in the Father of the kingdom. But, after all, who is my mother and who are my brothers?" And stretching forth his hands toward all of his disciples assembled in the room, he said: "I have no mother; I have no brothers. Behold my mother and behold my brethren! For whosoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, the same is my mother, my brother, and my sister."

154:6.6 And when Mary heard these words, she collapsed in Jude's arms. They carried her out in the garden to revive her while Jesus spoke the concluding words of his parting message. He would then have gone out to confer with his mother and his brothers, but a messenger arrived in haste from Tiberias bringing word that the officers of the Sanhedrin were on their way with authority to arrest Jesus and carry him to Jerusalem. Andrew received this message and, interrupting Jesus, told it to him.

154:6.7 Andrew did not recall that David had posted some twenty-five sentinels about the Zebedee house, and that no one could take them by surprise; so he asked Jesus what should be done. The Master stood there in silence while his mother, having heard the words, "I have no mother," was recovering from the shock in the garden. It was at just this time that a woman in the room stood up and exclaimed, "Blessed is the womb that bore you and blessed are the breasts that nursed you." Jesus turned aside a moment from his conversation with Andrew to answer this woman by saying, "No, rather is the one blessed who hears the word of God and dares to obey it."

154:6.8 Mary and Jesus' brothers thought that Jesus did not understand them, that he had lost interest in them, little realizing that it was they who failed to understand Jesus. Jesus fully understood how difficult it is for men to break with their past. He knew how human beings are swayed by the preacher's eloquence, and how the conscience responds to emotional appeal as the mind does to logic and reason, but he also knew how far more difficult it is to persuade men to disown the past.

154:6.9 It is forever true that all who may think they are misunderstood or not appreciated have in Jesus a sympathizing friend and an understanding counselor. He had warned his apostles that a man's foes may be they of his own household, but he had hardly realized how near this prediction would come to apply to his own experience. Jesus did not forsake his earth family to do his Father's work—they forsook him. Later on, after the Master's death and resurrection, when James became connected with the early Christian movement, he suffered immeasurably as a result of his failure to enjoy this earlier association with Jesus and his disciples.

154:6.10 In passing through these events, Jesus chose to be guided by the limited knowledge of his human mind. He desired to undergo the experience with his associates as a mere man. And it was in the human mind of Jesus to see his family before he left. He did not wish to stop in the midst of his discourse and thus render their first meeting after so long a separation such a public affair. He had intended to finish his address and then have a visit with them before leaving, but this plan was thwarted by the conspiracy of events which immediately followed.

154:6.11 The haste of their flight was augmented by the arrival of a party of David's messengers at the rear entrance of the Zebedee home. The commotion produced by these men frightened the apostles into thinking that these new arrivals might be their apprehenders, and in fear of immediate arrest, they hastened through the front entrance to the waiting boat. And all of this explains why Jesus did not see his family waiting on the back porch.

154:6.12 But he did say to David Zebedee as he entered the boat in hasty flight: "Tell my mother and my brothers that I appreciate their coming, and that I intended to see them. Admonish them to find no offense in me but rather to seek for a knowledge of the will of God and for grace and courage to do that will."

Urantia Book


Caino

Caino
August 2nd, 2010, 05:15 AM
Journey through the Universe - Urantia Book

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CkbbohKDoY&fmt=22






Caino

freelight
August 2nd, 2010, 11:19 PM
~*~*~

While sharing on the 'Divine Feminine' in other threads....the Papers present the wonderful ministry of the 'Local Universe Mother Spirit' (http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p034.htm)...who accompanies and assists the Creator-Son as the 'Divine Minister'. The beautiful collobaration of such divine personalities in organizing and sustaining the worlds, inspires awe and interest...to know our own place in the cosmic scheme of things, and those higher powers ever guiding.......



pj

Stuu
August 3rd, 2010, 02:39 AM
...zzzzzz

Said freelight as he drifted into a slumber brought on by the sheer tedium of Caino's screeds of pure nonsense.

Stuart

Caino
August 3rd, 2010, 05:24 AM
~*~*~

While sharing on the 'Divine Feminine' in other threads....the Papers present the wonderful ministry of the 'Local Universe Mother Spirit' (http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p034.htm)...who accompanies and assists the Creator-Son as the 'Divine Minister'. The beautiful collobaration of such divine personalities in organizing and sustaining the worlds, inspires awe and interest...to know our own place in the cosmic scheme of things, and those higher powers ever guiding.......



pj

Thanks freelight, its refreshing to consider the presence of the Divine Feminine. Religious people tend to think in tones of a male God, it's kinda hard to get that erroneous concept out of the brain!


Caino

Caino
August 3rd, 2010, 05:27 AM
...zzzzzz

Said freelight as he drifted into a slumber brought on by the sheer tedium of Caino's screeds of pure nonsense.

Stuart

LOL!......I do appreciate a clever sense of humor.


Caino

Caino
August 3rd, 2010, 09:05 AM
There were two trees mentioned in the garden of Eden, what was the second? We now know.


The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "
=
=
=

The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side [e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.



THE TREE OF LIFE

73:6.1 In the center of the Garden temple Van planted the long-guarded tree of life, whose leaves were for the "healing of the nations," and whose fruit had so long sustained him on earth. Van well knew that Adam and Eve would also be dependent on this gift of Edentia for their life maintenance after they once appeared on Urantia in material form.

73:6.2 The Material Sons on the system capitals do not require the tree of life for sustenance. Only in the planetary repersonalization are they dependent on this adjunct to physical immortality.

73:6.3 The "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" may be a figure of speech, a symbolic designation covering a multitude of human experiences, but the "tree of life" was not a myth; it was real and for a long time was present on Urantia. When the Most Highs of Edentia approved the commission of Caligastia as Planetary Prince of Urantia and those of the one hundred Jerusem citizens as his administrative staff, they sent to the planet, by the Melchizedek, a shrub of Edentia, and this plant grew to be the tree of life on Urantia. This form of nonintelligent life is native to the constellation headquarters spheres, being also found on the headquarters worlds of the local and superuniverses as well as on the Havona spheres, but not on the system capitals.

73:6.4 This superplant stored up certain space-energies which were antidotal to the age-producing elements of animal existence. The fruit of the tree of life was like a superchemical storage battery, mysteriously releasing the life-extension force of the universe when eaten. This form of sustenance was wholly useless to the ordinary evolutionary beings on Urantia, but specifically it was serviceable to the one hundred materialized members of Caligastia's staff and to the one hundred modified Andonites who had contributed of their life plasm to the Prince's staff, and who, in return, were made possessors of that complement of life which made it possible for them to utilize the fruit of the tree of life for an indefinite extension of their otherwise mortal existence.

73:6.5 During the days of the Prince's rule the tree was growing from the earth in the central and circular courtyard of the Father's temple. Upon the outbreak of the rebellion it was regrown from the central core by Van and his associates in their temporary camp. This Edentia shrub was subsequently taken to their highland retreat, where it served both Van and Amadon for more than one hundred and fifty thousand years.

73:6.6 When Van and his associates made ready the Garden for Adam and Eve, they transplanted the Edentia tree to the Garden of Eden, where, once again, it grew in a central, circular courtyard of another temple to the Father. And Adam and Eve periodically partook of its fruit for the maintenance of their dual form of physical life.

73:6.7 When the plans of the Material Son went astray, Adam and his family were not permitted to carry the core of the tree away from the Garden. When the Nodites invaded Eden, they were told that they would become as "gods if they partook of the fruit of the tree." Much to their surprise they found it unguarded. They ate freely of the fruit for years, but it did nothing for them; they were all material mortals of the realm; they lacked that endowment which acted as a complement to the fruit of the tree. They became enraged at their inability to benefit from the tree of life, and in connection with one of their internal wars, the temple and the tree were both destroyed by fire; only the stone wall stood until the Garden was subsequently submerged. This was the second temple of the Father to perish.

73:6.8 And now must all flesh on Urantia take the natural course of life and death. Adam, Eve, their children, and their children's children, together with their associates, all perished in the course of time, thus becoming subject to the ascension scheme of the local universe wherein mansion world resurrection follows material death.


Caino

taikoo
August 3rd, 2010, 09:10 AM
How did demons drown?????



THE KHERESA LUNATIC

151:6.1 Although most of the near-by eastern shore of the lake sloped up gently to the highlands beyond, at this particular spot there was a steep hillside, the shore in some places dropping sheer down into the lake. Pointing up to the side of the near-by hill, Jesus said: "Let us go up on this hillside for our breakfast and under some of the shelters rest and talk."

151:6.2 This entire hillside was covered with caverns which had been hewn out of the rock. Many of these niches were ancient sepulchres. About halfway up the hillside on a small, relatively level spot was the cemetery of the little village of Kheresa. As Jesus and his associates passed near this burial ground, a lunatic who lived in these hillside caverns rushed up to them. This demented man was well known about these parts, having onetime been bound with fetters and chains and confined in one of the grottoes. Long since he had broken his shackles and now roamed at will among the tombs and abandoned sepulchres.

151:6.3 This man, whose name was Amos, was afflicted with a periodic form of insanity. There were considerable spells when he would find some clothing and deport himself fairly well among his fellows. During one of these lucid intervals he had gone over to Bethsaida, where he heard the preaching of Jesus and the apostles, and at that time had become a halfhearted believer in the gospel of the kingdom. But soon a stormy phase of his trouble appeared, and he fled to the tombs, where he moaned, cried out aloud, and so conducted himself as to terrorize all who chanced to meet him.

151:6.4 When Amos recognized Jesus, he fell down at his feet and exclaimed: "I know you, Jesus, but I am possessed of many devils, and I beseech that you will not torment me." This man truly believed that his periodic mental affliction was due to the fact that, at such times, evil or unclean spirits entered into him and dominated his mind and body. His troubles were mostly emotional—his brain was not grossly diseased.

151:6.5 Jesus, looking down upon the man crouching like an animal at his feet, reached down and, taking him by the hand, stood him up and said to him: "Amos, you are not possessed of a devil; you have already heard the good news that you are a son of God. I command you to come out of this spell." And when Amos heard Jesus speak these words, there occurred such a transformation in his intellect that he was immediately restored to his right mind and the normal control of his emotions. By this time a considerable crowd had assembled from the near-by village, and these people, augmented by the swine herders from the highland above them, were astonished to see the lunatic sitting with Jesus and his followers, in possession of his right mind and freely conversing with them.

151:6.6 As the swine herders rushed into the village to spread the news of the taming of the lunatic, the dogs charged upon a small and untended herd of about thirty swine and drove most of them over a precipice into the sea. And it was this incidental occurrence, in connection with the presence of Jesus and the supposed miraculous curing of the lunatic, that gave origin to the legend that Jesus had cured Amos by casting a legion of devils out of him, and that these devils had entered into the herd of swine, causing them forthwith to rush headlong to their destruction in the sea below. Before the day was over, this episode was published abroad by the swine tenders, and the whole village believed it. Amos most certainly believed this story; he saw the swine tumbling over the brow of the hill shortly after his troubled mind had quieted down, and he always believed that they carried with them the very evil spirits which had so long tormented and afflicted him. And this had a good deal to do with the permanency of his cure. It is equally true that all of Jesus' apostles (save Thomas) believed that the episode of the swine was directly connected with the cure of Amos.

151:6.7 Jesus did not obtain the rest he was looking for. Most of that day he was thronged by those who came in response to the word that Amos had been cured, and who were attracted by the story that the demons had gone out of the lunatic into the herd of swine. And so, after only one night of rest, early Tuesday morning Jesus and his friends were awakened by a delegation of these swine-raising gentiles who had come to urge that he depart from their midst. Said their spokesman to Peter and Andrew: "Fishermen of Galilee, depart from us and take your prophet with you. We know he is a holy man, but the gods of our country do not know him, and we stand in danger of losing many swine. The fear of you has descended upon us, so that we pray you to go hence." And when Jesus heard them, he said to Andrew, "Let us return to our place."

151:6.8 As they were about to depart, Amos besought Jesus to permit him to go back with them, but the Master would not consent. Said Jesus to Amos: "Forget not that you are a son of God. Return to your own people and show them what great things God has done for you." And Amos went about publishing that Jesus had cast a legion of devils out of his troubled soul, and that these evil spirits had entered into a herd of swine, driving them to quick destruction. And he did not stop until he had gone into all the cities of the Decapolis, declaring what great things Jesus had done for him.



Caino


so who paid for the pigs? willful destruction of property is a crime.

Caino
August 3rd, 2010, 10:37 AM
The swine herders own dogs chased the pigs into the sea. I suppose if they had business interruption insurance they could file a claim......but then again, who herds pigs?



Caino

Stuu
August 3rd, 2010, 11:07 PM
so who paid for the pigs? willful destruction of property is a crime.
Don't you pay attention to ANYTHING?? This is very important stuff and I am disappointed to see you trivialising it.

The pigs belonged to the Uvula people of the Seventh Dimension. In the time of the first great realisation of the Deity-trinitized Sons there was a lawsuit that determined the liability for the value of the pigs.

Sheesh, do try to keep up.

Stuart

Caino
August 4th, 2010, 07:13 AM
Stuu provided a good segway to today’s topic of "humor", its role, genetic origin and importance in our emotional well being.



THE REVERSION DIRECTORS

48:4.1 Joyful mirth and the smile-equivalent are as universal as music. There is a morontial and a spiritual equivalent of mirth and laughter. The ascendant life is about equally divided between work and play—freedom from assignment.

48:4.2 Celestial relaxation and superhuman humor are quite different from their human analogues, but we all actually indulge in a form of both; and they really accomplish for us, in our state, just about what ideal humor is able to do for you on Urantia. The Morontia Companions are skillful play sponsors, and they are most ably supported by the reversion directors.

48:4.3 You would probably best understand the work of the reversion directors if they were likened to the higher types of humorists on Urantia, though that would be an exceedingly crude and somewhat unfortunate way in which to try to convey an idea of the function of these directors of change and relaxation, these ministers of the exalted humor of the morontia and spirit realms.

48:4.4 In discussing spirit humor, first let me tell you what it is not. Spirit jest is never tinged with the accentuation of the misfortunes of the weak and erring. Neither is it ever blasphemous of the righteousness and glory of divinity. Our humor embraces three general levels of appreciation:

48:4.5 1. Reminiscent jests. Quips growing out of the memories of past episodes in one's experience of combat, struggle, and sometimes fearfulness, and ofttimes foolish and childish anxiety. To us, this phase of humor derives from the deep-seated and abiding ability to draw upon the past for memory material with which pleasantly to flavor and otherwise lighten the heavy loads of the present.

48:4.6 2. Current humor. The senselessness of much that so often causes us serious concern, the joy at discovering the unimportance of much of our serious personal anxiety. We are most appreciative of this phase of humor when we are best able to discount the anxieties of the present in favor of the certainties of the future.

48:4.7 3. Prophetic joy. It will perhaps be difficult for mortals to envisage this phase of humor, but we do get a peculiar satisfaction out of the assurance "that all things work together for good"—for spirits and morontians as well as for mortals. This aspect of celestial humor grows out of our faith in the loving overcare of our superiors and in the divine stability of our Supreme Directors.

48:4.8 But the reversion directors of the realms are not concerned exclusively with depicting the high humor of the various orders of intelligent beings; they are also occupied with the leadership of diversion, spiritual recreation and morontia entertainment. And in this connection they have the hearty co-operation of the celestial artisans.

48:4.9 The reversion directors themselves are not a created group; they are a recruited corps embracing beings ranging from the Havona natives down through the messenger hosts of space and the ministering spirits of time to the morontia progressors from the evolutionary worlds. All are volunteers, giving themselves to the work of assisting their fellows in the achievement of thought change and mind rest, for such attitudes are most helpful in recuperating depleted energies.

48:4.10 When partially exhausted by the efforts of attainment, and while awaiting the reception of new energy charges, there is agreeable pleasure in living over again the enactments of other days and ages. The early experiences of the race or the order are restful to reminisce. And that is exactly why these artists are called reversion directors—they assist in reverting the memory to a former state of development or to a less experienced status of being.

48:4.11 All beings enjoy this sort of reversion except those who are inherent Creators, hence automatic self-rejuvenators, and certain highly specialized types of creatures, such as the power centers and the physical controllers, who are always and eternally thoroughly businesslike in all their reactions. These periodic releases from the tension of functional duty are a regular part of life on all worlds throughout the universe of universes but not on the Isle of Paradise. Beings indigenous to the central abode are incapable of depletion and are not, therefore, subject to re-energizing. And with such beings of eternal Paradise perfection there can be no such reversion to evolutionary experiences.

48:4.12 Most of us have come up through lower stages of existence or through progressive levels of our orders, and it is refreshing and in a measure amusing to look back upon certain episodes of our early experience. There is a restfulness in the contemplation of that which is old to one's order, and which lingers as a memory possession of the mind. The future signifies struggle and advancement; it bespeaks work, effort, and achievement; but the past savors of things already mastered and achieved; contemplation of the past permits of relaxation and such a carefree review as to provoke spirit mirth and a morontia state of mind verging on merriment.

48:4.13 Even mortal humor becomes most hearty when it depicts episodes affecting those just a little beneath one's present developmental state, or when it portrays one's supposed superiors falling victim to the experiences which are commonly associated with supposed inferiors. You of Urantia have allowed much that is at once vulgar and unkind to become confused with your humor, but on the whole, you are to be congratulated on a comparatively keen sense of humor. Some of your races have a rich vein of it and are greatly helped in their earthly careers thereby. Apparently you received much in the way of humor from your Adamic inheritance, much more than was secured of either music or art.

48:4.14 All Satania, during times of play, those times when its inhabitants refreshingly resurrect the memories of a lower stage of existence, is edified by the pleasant humor of a corps of reversion directors from Urantia. The sense of celestial humor we have with us always, even when engaged in the most difficult of assignments. It helps to avoid an overdevelopment of the notion of one's self-importance. But we do not give rein to it freely, as you might say, "have fun," except when we are in recess from the serious assignments of our respective orders.

48:4.15 When we are tempted to magnify our self-importance, if we stop to contemplate the infinity of the greatness and grandeur of our Makers, our own self-glorification becomes sublimely ridiculous, even verging on the humorous. One of the functions of humor is to help all of us take ourselves less seriously. Humor is the divine antidote for exaltation of ego.

48:4.16 The need for the relaxation and diversion of humor is greatest in those orders of ascendant beings who are subjected to sustained stress in their upward struggles. The two extremes of life have little need for humorous diversions. Primitive men have no capacity therefor, and beings of Paradise perfection have no need thereof. The hosts of Havona are naturally a joyous and exhilarating assemblage of supremely happy personalities. On Paradise the quality of worship obviates the necessity for reversion activities. But among those who start their careers far below the goal of Paradise perfection, there is a large place for the ministry of the reversion directors.

48:4.17 The higher the mortal species, the greater the stress and the greater the capacity for humor as well as the necessity for it. In the spirit world the opposite is true: The higher we ascend, the less the need for the diversions of reversion experiences. But proceeding down the scale of spirit life from Paradise to the seraphic hosts, there is an increasing need for the mission of mirth and the ministry of merriment. Those beings who most need the refreshment of periodic reversion to the intellectual status of previous experiences are the higher types of the human species, the morontians, angels, and the Material Sons, together with all similar types of personality.

48:4.18 Humor should function as an automatic safety valve to prevent the building up of excessive pressures due to the monotony of sustained and serious self-contemplation in association with the intense struggle for developmental progress and noble achievement. Humor also functions to lessen the shock of the unexpected impact of fact or of truth, rigid unyielding fact and flexible ever-living truth. The mortal personality, never sure as to which will next be encountered, through humor swiftly grasps—sees the point and achieves insight—the unexpected nature of the situation be it fact or be it truth.

48:4.19 While the humor of Urantia is exceedingly crude and most inartistic, it does serve a valuable purpose both as a health insurance and as a liberator of emotional pressure, thus preventing injurious nervous tension and overserious self-contemplation. Humor and play—relaxation—are never reactions of progressive exertion; always are they the echoes of a backward glance, a reminiscence of the past. Even on Urantia and as you now are, you always find it rejuvenating when for a short time you can suspend the exertions of the newer and higher intellectual efforts and revert to the more simple engagements of your ancestors.

48:4.20 The principles of Urantian play life are philosophically sound and continue to apply on up through your ascending life, through the circuits of Havona to the eternal shores of Paradise. As ascendant beings you are in possession of personal memories of all former and lower existences, and without such identity memories of the past there would be no basis for the humor of the present, either mortal laughter or morontia mirth. It is this recalling of past experiences that provides the basis for present diversion and amusement. And so you will enjoy the celestial equivalents of your earthly humor all the way up through your long morontia, and then increasingly spiritual, careers. And that part of God (the Adjuster) which becomes an eternal part of the personality of an ascendant mortal contributes the overtones of divinity to the joyous expressions, even spiritual laughter, of the ascending creatures of time and space.



Caino

freelight
August 4th, 2010, 05:20 PM
Thanks freelight, its refreshing to consider the presence of the Divine Feminine. Religious people tend to think in tones of a male God, it's kinda hard to get that erroneous concept out of the brain!


Caino


Some call our local universe Mother, Nebadonia (after the name of our local universe, Nebadon)

From the TM arcives/glossary (http://www.tmarchives.com/glossary.php#N) -

Mother Spirit

Known by various names and titles: Nebadonia, Divine Minister, Universe Mother Spirit of Salvington, Creative Daughter Spirit, Consort of Michael of Nebadon. Created by the Third Source and Center, she and Michael preside over Nebadon as Divine Parents over all the sons and daughters of their creation. Her presence pervades all of Nebadon at all times; she never leaves Nebadon, whereas Michael does make journeys to the superuniverse headquarters worlds, as well as to Paradise. [UB, Paper 33, sec. 3] [p. 368]

Nebadonia

Universe Mother Spirit of Nebadon, the local Universe Representative of the Third Person of the Trinity. Creative Daughter Spirit of the local universe of Nebadon, Universe Mother Spirit of Salvington, Divine Minister; consort and spiritual companion of Michael; known affectionately throughout Nebadon as AMother.@ She was created by the Third Person of the Trinity, the Conjoint Actor, also called the Holy Spirit. Personalities created by her alone are most numerous. She is the Creator of the seraphic beings within Nebadon, and the bestower of mind as a representative of the Conjoint Actor, as well as her personal influence as the presence of Holy Spirit. She provides the Aspark of life@ that animates all life, creatures and plants, on all worlds of Nebadon. [UB, Paper 34] [p. 374]

The 'Teaching Mission (http://www.lightandlife.com/new/teaching_mission/default.htm)(TM)' is a movement of additional divine revelations and messages given thru 'messengers' continuing the germ of the Urantia Book teachings...with sustaining guidance and divine/human cooperation. Some accept the continued 'transmissions' of the celestials thru human vessels, while other UB readers see these messages more as 'channeling' and do not accept them as necessarily 'authentic'(or necessary), since the Urantia Papers come into being thru a unique process unlike what is typically known as 'channeling', as is sufficient unto itself.

Critical article here (http://www.freeurantia.org/channeling.htm).




pj

Caino
August 5th, 2010, 08:25 AM
Some call our local universe Mother, Nebadonia (after the name of our local universe, Nebadon)

From the TM arcives/glossary (http://www.tmarchives.com/glossary.php#N) -

Mother Spirit

Known by various names and titles: Nebadonia, Divine Minister, Universe Mother Spirit of Salvington, Creative Daughter Spirit, Consort of Michael of Nebadon. Created by the Third Source and Center, she and Michael preside over Nebadon as Divine Parents over all the sons and daughters of their creation. Her presence pervades all of Nebadon at all times; she never leaves Nebadon, whereas Michael does make journeys to the superuniverse headquarters worlds, as well as to Paradise. [UB, Paper 33, sec. 3] [p. 368]

Nebadonia

Universe Mother Spirit of Nebadon, the local Universe Representative of the Third Person of the Trinity. Creative Daughter Spirit of the local universe of Nebadon, Universe Mother Spirit of Salvington, Divine Minister; consort and spiritual companion of Michael; known affectionately throughout Nebadon as AMother.@ She was created by the Third Person of the Trinity, the Conjoint Actor, also called the Holy Spirit. Personalities created by her alone are most numerous. She is the Creator of the seraphic beings within Nebadon, and the bestower of mind as a representative of the Conjoint Actor, as well as her personal influence as the presence of Holy Spirit. She provides the Aspark of life@ that animates all life, creatures and plants, on all worlds of Nebadon. [UB, Paper 34] [p. 374]

The 'Teaching Mission (http://www.lightandlife.com/new/teaching_mission/default.htm)(TM)' is a movement of additional divine revelations and messages given thru 'messengers' continuing the germ of the Urantia Book teachings...with sustaining guidance and divine/human cooperation. Some accept the continued 'transmissions' of the celestials thru human vessels, while other UB readers see these messages more as 'channeling' and do not accept them as necessarily 'authentic'(or necessary), since the Urantia Papers come into being thru a unique process unlike what is typically known as 'channeling', as is sufficient unto itself.

Critical article here (http://www.freeurantia.org/channeling.htm).




pj

Thanks free.

Caino

Caino
August 6th, 2010, 07:15 AM
The Urantia Book

Paper 119

THE BESTOWALS OF CHRIST MICHAEL

http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1371


THE FIRST BESTOWAL

It was a solemn occasion on Salvington almost one billion years ago when the assembled directors and chiefs of the universe of Nebadon heard Michael announce that his elder brother, Immanuel, would presently assume authority in Nebadon while he (Michael) would be absent on an unexplained mission. No other announcement was made about this transaction except that the farewell broadcast to the Constellation Fathers, among other instructions, said: "And for this period I place you under the care and keeping of Immanuel while I go to do the bidding of my Paradise Father."

After sending this farewell broadcast, Michael appeared on the dispatching field of Salvington, just as on many previous occasions when preparing for departure to Uversa or Paradise except that he came alone. He concluded his statement of departure with these words: "I leave you but for a short season. Many of you, I know, would go with me, but whither I go you cannot come. That which I am about to do, you cannot do. I go to do the will of the Paradise Deities, and when I have finished my mission and have acquired this experience, I will return to my place among you." And having thus spoken, Michael of Nebadon vanished from the sight of all those assembled and did not reappear for twenty years of standard time. In all Salvington, only the Divine Minister and Immanuel knew what was taking place, and the Union of Days shared his secret only with the chief executive of the universe, Gabriel, the Bright and Morning Star.

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THE SEVENTH AND FINAL BESTOWAL

For tens of thousands of years we all looked forward to the seventh and final bestowal of Michael. Gabriel had taught us that this terminal bestowal would be made in the likeness of mortal flesh, but we were wholly ignorant of the time, place, and manner of this culminating adventure.

The public announcement that Michael had selected Urantia (earth) as the theater for his final bestowal was made shortly after we learned about the default of Adam and Eve. And thus, for more than thirty-five thousand years, your world occupied a very conspicuous place in the councils of the entire universe. There was no secrecy (aside from the incarnation mystery) connected with any step in the Urantia bestowal. From first to last, up to the final and triumphant return of Michael to Salvington as supreme Universe Sovereign, there was the fullest universe publicity of all that transpired on your small but highly honored world.

While we believed that this would be the method, we never knew, until the time of the event itself, that Michael would appear on earth as a helpless infant of the realm. Theretofore had he always appeared as a fully developed individual of the personality group of the bestowal selection, and it was a thrilling announcement which was broadcast from Salvington telling that the babe of Bethlehem had been born on Urantia.

We then not only realized that our Creator and friend was taking the most precarious step in all his career, apparently risking his position and authority on this bestowal as a helpless infant, but we also understood that his experience in this final and mortal bestowal would eternally enthrone him as the undisputed and supreme sovereign of the universe of Nebadon. For a third of a century of earth time all eyes in all parts of this local universe were focused on Urantia. All intelligences realized that the last bestowal was in progress, and as we had long known of the Lucifer rebellion in Satania and of the Caligastia disaffection on Urantia, we well understood the intensity of the struggle which would ensue when our ruler condescended to incarnate on Urantia in the humble form and likeness of mortal flesh.

Joshua ben Joseph, the Jewish baby, was conceived and was born into the world just as all other babies before and since except that this particular baby was the incarnation of Michael of Nebadon, a divine Son of Paradise and the creator of all this local universe of things and beings. And this mystery of the incarnation of Deity within the human form of Jesus, otherwise of natural origin on the world, will forever remain unsolved. Even in eternity you will never know the technique and method of the incarnation of the Creator in the form and likeness of his creatures. That is the secret of Sonarington, and such mysteries are the exclusive possession of those divine Sons who have passed through the bestowal experience.

Certain wise men of earth knew of Michael's impending arrival. Through the contacts of one world with another, these wise men of spiritual insight learned of the forthcoming bestowal of Michael on Urantia. And the seraphim did, through the midway creatures, make announcement to a group of Chaldean priests whose leader was Ardnon. These men of God visited the newborn child. The only supernatural event associated with the birth of Jesus was this announcement to Ardnon and his associates by the seraphim of former attachment to Adam and Eve in the first garden.

Jesus' human parents were average people of their day and generation, and this incarnated Son of God was thus born of woman and was reared in the ordinary manner of the children of that race and age.



Caino

Caino
August 8th, 2010, 09:15 AM
The Urantia Book

Paper 188
The Time of the Tomb


(2012.1) 188:0.1 THE day and a half that Jesus’ mortal body lay in the tomb of Joseph, the period between his death on the cross and his resurrection, is a chapter in the earth career of Michael which is little known to us. We can narrate the burial of the Son of Man and put in this record the events associated with his resurrection, but we cannot supply much information of an authentic nature about what really transpired during this epoch of about thirty-six hours, from three o’clock Friday afternoon to three o’clock Sunday morning. This period in the Master’s career began shortly before he was taken down from the cross by the Roman soldiers. He hung upon the cross about one hour after his death. He would have been taken down sooner but for the delay in dispatching the two brigands.

(2012.2) 188:0.2 The rulers of the Jews had planned to have Jesus’ body thrown in the open burial pits of Gehenna, south of the city; it was the custom thus to dispose of the victims of crucifixion. If this plan had been followed, the body of the Master would have been exposed to the wild beasts.

(2012.3) 188:0.3 In the meantime, Joseph of Arimathea, accompanied by Nicodemus, had gone to Pilate and asked that the body of Jesus be turned over to them for proper burial. It was not uncommon for friends of crucified persons to offer bribes to the Roman authorities for the privilege of gaining possession of such bodies. Joseph went before Pilate with a large sum of money, in case it became necessary to pay for permission to remove Jesus’ body to a private burial tomb. But Pilate would not take money for this. When he heard the request, he quickly signed the order which authorized Joseph to proceed to Golgotha and take immediate and full possession of the Master’s body. In the meantime, the sandstorm having considerably abated, a group of Jews representing the Sanhedrin had gone out to Golgotha for the purpose of making sure that Jesus’ body accompanied those of the brigands to the open public burial pits.

1. The Burial of Jesus

(2012.4) 188:1.1 When Joseph and Nicodemus arrived at Golgotha, they found the soldiers taking Jesus down from the cross and the representatives of the Sanhedrin standing by to see that none of Jesus’ followers prevented his body from going to the criminal burial pits. When Joseph presented Pilate’s order for the Master’s body to the centurion, the Jews raised a tumult and clamored for its possession. In their raving they sought violently to take possession of the body, and when they did this, the centurion ordered four of his soldiers to his side, and with drawn swords they stood astride the Master’s body as it lay there on the ground. The centurion ordered the other soldiers to leave the two thieves while they drove back this angry mob of infuriated Jews. When order had been restored, the centurion read the permit from Pilate to the Jews and, stepping aside, said to Joseph: “This body is yours to do with as you see fit. I and my soldiers will stand by to see that no man interferes.”

(2013.1) 188:1.2 A crucified person could not be buried in a Jewish cemetery; there was a strict law against such a procedure. Joseph and Nicodemus knew this law, and on the way out to Golgotha they had decided to bury Jesus in Joseph’s new family tomb, hewn out of solid rock, located a short distance north of Golgotha and across the road leading to Samaria. No one had ever lain in this tomb, and they thought it appropriate that the Master should rest there. Joseph really believed that Jesus would rise from the dead, but Nicodemus was very doubtful. These former members of the Sanhedrin had kept their faith in Jesus more or less of a secret, although their fellow Sanhedrists had long suspected them, even before they withdrew from the council. From now on they were the most outspoken disciples of Jesus in all Jerusalem.

(2013.2) 188:1.3 At about half past four o’clock the burial procession of Jesus of Nazareth started from Golgotha for Joseph’s tomb across the way. The body was wrapped in a linen sheet as the four men carried it, followed by the faithful women watchers from Galilee. The mortals who bore the material body of Jesus to the tomb were: Joseph, Nicodemus, John, and the Roman centurion.

(2013.3) 188:1.4 They carried the body into the tomb, a chamber about ten feet square, where they hurriedly prepared it for burial. The Jews did not really bury their dead; they actually embalmed them. Joseph and Nicodemus had brought with them large quantities of myrrh and aloes, and they now wrapped the body with bandages saturated with these solutions. When the embalming was completed, they tied a napkin about the face, wrapped the body in a linen sheet, and reverently placed it on a shelf in the tomb.

(2013.4) 188:1.5 After placing the body in the tomb, the centurion signaled for his soldiers to help roll the doorstone up before the entrance to the tomb. The soldiers then departed for Gehenna with the bodies of the thieves while the others returned to Jerusalem, in sorrow, to observe the Passover feast according to the laws of Moses.

(2013.5) 188:1.6 There was considerable hurry and haste about the burial of Jesus because this was preparation day and the Sabbath was drawing on apace. The men hurried back to the city, but the women lingered near the tomb until it was very dark.

(2013.6) 188:1.7 While all this was going on, the women were hiding near at hand so that they saw it all and observed where the Master had been laid. They thus secreted themselves because it was not permissible for women to associate with men at such a time. These women did not think Jesus had been properly prepared for burial, and they agreed among themselves to go back to the home of Joseph, rest over the Sabbath, make ready spices and ointments, and return on Sunday morning properly to prepare the Master’s body for the death rest. The women who thus tarried by the tomb on this Friday evening were: Mary Magdalene, Mary the wife of Clopas, Martha another sister of Jesus’ mother, and Rebecca of Sepphoris.

(2013.7) 188:1.8 Aside from David Zebedee and Joseph of Arimathea, very few of Jesus’ disciples really believed or understood that he was due to arise from the tomb on the third day.

2. Safeguarding the Tomb

(2014.1) 188:2.1 If Jesus’ followers were unmindful of his promise to rise from the grave on the third day, his enemies were not. The chief priests, Pharisees, and Sadducees recalled that they had received reports of his saying he would rise from the dead.

(2014.2) 188:2.2 This Friday night, after the Passover supper, about midnight a group of the Jewish leaders gathered at the home of Caiaphas, where they discussed their fears concerning the Master’s assertions that he would rise from the dead on the third day. This meeting ended with the appointment of a committee of Sanhedrists who were to visit Pilate early the next day, bearing the official request of the Sanhedrin that a Roman guard be stationed before Jesus’ tomb to prevent his friends from tampering with it. Said the spokesman of this committee to Pilate: “Sir, we remember that this deceiver, Jesus of Nazareth, said, while he was yet alive, ‘After three days I will rise again.’ We have, therefore, come before you to request that you issue such orders as will make the sepulchre secure against his followers, at least until after the third day. We greatly fear lest his disciples come and steal him away by night and then proclaim to the people that he has risen from the dead. If we should permit this to happen, this mistake would be far worse than to have allowed him to live.”

(2014.3) 188:2.3 When Pilate heard this request of the Sanhedrists, he said: “I will give you a guard of ten soldiers. Go your way and make the tomb secure.” They went back to the temple, secured ten of their own guards, and then marched out to Joseph’s tomb with these ten Jewish guards and ten Roman soldiers, even on this Sabbath morning, to set them as watchmen before the tomb. These men rolled yet another stone before the tomb and set the seal of Pilate on and around these stones, lest they be disturbed without their knowledge. And these twenty men remained on watch up to the hour of the resurrection, the Jews carrying them their food and drink.

3. During the Sabbath Day

(2014.4) 188:3.1 Throughout this Sabbath day the disciples and the apostles remained in hiding, while all Jerusalem discussed the death of Jesus on the cross. There were almost one and one-half million Jews present in Jerusalem at this time, hailing from all parts of the Roman Empire and from Mesopotamia. This was the beginning of the Passover week, and all these pilgrims would be in the city to learn of the resurrection of Jesus and to carry the report back to their homes.

(2014.5) 188:3.2 Late Saturday night, John Mark summoned the eleven apostles secretly to come to the home of his father, where, just before midnight, they all assembled in the same upper chamber where they had partaken of the Last Supper with their Master two nights previously.

(2014.6) 188:3.3 Mary the mother of Jesus, with Ruth and Jude, returned to Bethany to join their family this Saturday evening just before sunset. David Zebedee remained at the home of Nicodemus, where he had arranged for his messengers to assemble early Sunday morning. The women of Galilee, who prepared spices for the further embalming of Jesus’ body, tarried at the home of Joseph of Arimathea.

(2014.7) 188:3.4 We are not able fully to explain just what happened to Jesus of Nazareth during this period of a day and a half when he was supposed to be resting in Joseph’s new tomb. Apparently he died the same natural death on the cross as would any other mortal in the same circumstances. We heard him say, “Father, into your hands I commend my spirit.” We do not fully understand the meaning of such a statement inasmuch as his Thought Adjuster had long since been personalized and so maintained an existence apart from Jesus’ mortal being. The Master’s Personalized Adjuster could in no sense be affected by his physical death on the cross. That which Jesus put in the Father’s hands for the time being must have been the spirit counterpart of the Adjuster’s early work in spiritizing the mortal mind so as to provide for the transfer of the transcript of the human experience to the mansion worlds. There must have been some spiritual reality in the experience of Jesus which was analogous to the spirit nature, or soul, of the faith-growing mortals of the spheres. But this is merely our opinion — we do not really know what Jesus commended to his Father.

(2015.1) 188:3.5 We know that the physical form of the Master rested there in Joseph’s tomb until about three o’clock Sunday morning, but we are wholly uncertain regarding the status of the personality of Jesus during that period of thirty-six hours. We have sometimes dared to explain these things to ourselves somewhat as follows:

(2015.2) 188:3.6 1. The Creator consciousness of Michael must have been at large and wholly free from its associated mortal mind of the physical incarnation.

(2015.3) 188:3.7 2. The former Thought Adjuster of Jesus we know to have been present on earth during this period and in personal command of the assembled celestial hosts.

(2015.4) 188:3.8 3. The acquired spirit identity of the man of Nazareth which was built up during his lifetime in the flesh, first, by the direct efforts of his Thought Adjuster, and later, by his own perfect adjustment between the physical necessities and the spiritual requirements of the ideal mortal existence, as it was effected by his never-ceasing choice of the Father’s will, must have been consigned to the custody of the Paradise Father. Whether or not this spirit reality returned to become a part of the resurrected personality, we do not know, but we believe it did. But there are those in the universe who hold that this soul-identity of Jesus now reposes in the “bosom of the Father,” to be subsequently released for leadership of the Nebadon Corps of the Finality in their undisclosed destiny in connection with the uncreated universes of the unorganized realms of outer space.

(2015.5) 188:3.9 4. We think the human or mortal consciousness of Jesus slept during these thirty-six hours. We have reason to believe that the human Jesus knew nothing of what transpired in the universe during this period. To the mortal consciousness there appeared no lapse of time; the resurrection of life followed the sleep of death as of the same instant.

(2015.6) 188:3.10 And this is about all we can place on record regarding the status of Jesus during this period of the tomb. There are a number of correlated facts to which we can allude, although we are hardly competent to undertake their interpretation.

(2015.7) 188:3.11 In the vast court of the resurrection halls of the first mansion world of Satania, there may now be observed a magnificent material-morontia structure known as the “Michael Memorial,” now bearing the seal of Gabriel. This memorial was created shortly after Michael departed from this world, and it bears this inscription: “In commemoration of the mortal transit of Jesus of Nazareth on Urantia.”

(2016.1) 188:3.12 There are records extant which show that during this period the supreme council of Salvington, numbering one hundred, held an executive meeting on Urantia under the presidency of Gabriel. There are also records showing that the Ancients of Days of Uversa communicated with Michael regarding the status of the universe of Nebadon during this time.

(2016.2) 188:3.13 We know that at least one message passed between Michael and Immanuel on Salvington while the Master’s body lay in the tomb.

(2016.3) 188:3.14 There is good reason for believing that some personality sat in the seat of Caligastia in the system council of the Planetary Princes on Jerusem which convened while the body of Jesus rested in the tomb.

(2016.4) 188:3.15 The records of Edentia indicate that the Constellation Father of Norlatiadek was on Urantia, and that he received instructions from Michael during this time of the tomb.

(2016.5) 188:3.16 And there is much other evidence which suggests that not all of the personality of Jesus was asleep and unconscious during this time of apparent physical death.


Caino

chrysostom
August 8th, 2010, 09:18 AM
does the Urantia book have the same problems you find with the Bible?

Caino
August 8th, 2010, 09:54 AM
does the Urantia book have the same problems you find with the Bible?

No, but its not the word of God (all inspired or written by God) it's a composite work written by a number of celestial beings. I have taken the time to select from the UB itself statements which answer your question. Please take the time to read what I have provided.
Caino

'Mankind should understand that we who participate in the revelation of truth are very rigorously limited by the instructions of our superiors. We are not at liberty to anticipate the scientific discoveries of a thousand years. Revelators must act in accordance with the instructions which form a part of the revelation mandate. We see no way of overcoming this difficulty, either now or at any future time. We full well know that, while the historic facts and religious truths of this series of revelatory presentations will stand on the records of the ages to come, within a few short years many of our statements regarding the physical sciences will stand in need of revision in consequence of additional scientific developments and new discoveries. These new developments we even now foresee, but we are forbidden to include such humanly undiscovered facts in the revelatory records. Let it be made clear that revelations are not necessarily inspired. The cosmology of these revelations is not inspired. It is limited by our permission for the co-ordination and sorting of present-day knowledge. While divine or spiritual insight is a gift, human wisdom must evolve.


There have been many events of religious revelation but only five of epochal significance. These were as follows:

(1007.5) 92:4.5 1. The Dalamatian teachings. 500,000 BC The true concept of the First Source and Center was first promulgated on Urantia by the one hundred corporeal members of Prince Caligastia’s staff. This expanding revelation of Deity went on for more than three hundred thousand years until it was suddenly terminated by the planetary secession and the disruption of the teaching regime. Except for the work of Van, the influence of the Dalamatian revelation was practically lost to the whole world. Even the Nodites had forgotten this truth by the time of Adam’s arrival. Of all who received the teachings of the one hundred, the red men held them longest, but the idea of the Great Spirit was but a hazy concept in Amerindian religion when contact with Christianity greatly clarified and strengthened it.

(1007.6) 92:4.6 2. The Edenic teachings. 39,000 BC Adam and Eve again portrayed the concept of the Father of all to the evolutionary peoples. The disruption of the first Eden halted the course of the Adamic revelation before it had ever fully started. But the aborted teachings of Adam were carried on by the Sethite priests, and some of these truths have never been entirely lost to the world. The entire trend of Levantine religious evolution was modified by the teachings of the Sethites. But by 2500 B.C. mankind had largely lost sight of the revelation sponsored in the days of Eden.

(1007.7) 92:4.7 3. Melchizedek of Salem. 3,500 BC This emergency Son of Nebadon inaugurated the third revelation of truth on Urantia. The cardinal precepts of his teachings were trust and faith. He taught trust in the omnipotent beneficence of God and proclaimed that faith was the act by which men earned God’s favor. His teachings gradually commingled with the beliefs and practices of various evolutionary religions and finally developed into those theologic systems present on Urantia at the opening of the first millennium after Christ.

(1008.1) 92:4.8 4. Jesus of Nazareth. Christ Michael presented for the fourth time to Urantia the concept of God as the Universal Father, and this teaching has generally persisted ever since. The essence of his teaching was love and service, the loving worship which a creature son voluntarily gives in recognition of, and response to, the loving ministry of God his Father; the freewill service which such creature sons bestow upon their brethren in the joyous realization that in this service they are likewise serving God the Father.

(1008.2) 92:4.9 5. The Urantia Papers. The papers, of which this is one, constitute the most recent presentation of truth to the mortals of Urantia. These papers differ from all previous revelations, for they are not the work of a single universe personality but a composite presentation by many beings. But no revelation short of the attainment of the Universal Father can ever be complete. All other celestial ministrations are no more than partial, transient, and practically adapted to local conditions in time and space. While such admissions as this may possibly detract from the immediate force and authority of all revelations, the time has arrived on Urantia when it is advisable to make such frank statements, even at the risk of weakening the future influence and authority of this, the most recent of the revelations of truth to the mortal races of Urantia.

Caino

chrysostom
August 8th, 2010, 09:58 AM
is Jesus God?

Caino
August 8th, 2010, 10:08 AM
is Jesus God?

Jesus (Christ Michael) is the Son of God, a creator Son. He is unified with the Father. Yes, to all intents and purposes, Jesus is God to us.

We must go through the Son to know the Father.

Caino

chrysostom
August 8th, 2010, 10:13 AM
Jesus (Christ Michael) is the Son of God, a creator Son. He is unified with the Father. Yes, to all intents and purposes, Jesus is God to us.

We must go through the Son to know the Father.

Caino

is Jesus the only Son of God?

Caino
August 8th, 2010, 10:43 AM
is Jesus the only Son of God?

Difficult to answer without a long explanation but I will vastly simplify.

* Christ Michael is our creator brother, he created our particular universe place and the life which inhabits it. The UB teaches that there are 10,000,000 inhabited worlds under Michaels creatorship, administration and sovereign rule.

Under the rule of our creator son is a series of descending sons with varying degrees of divinity, such as Lucifer, Satan and the "Prince of this world". These deposed and discredited sons of God violated their sacred trust, rebelled against the rule of the Father in the person of the son and lead a disastrous rebellion against the rule of Michael. "there was war in heaven"....an ideological war.

Jesus or Christ Michael was called the only begotten son because each creator son is a unique personification.

There are many other creator sons who have their own co-creations and their own worlds. The UB teaches that we live in a VAST universe containing 7 trillion inhabited worlds.

Note:

In the UB the Trinity is the creator of the creator sons. Jesus therefore was not the second person of the Trinity, he is a son of or creation of the Trinity.

There are many other divine beings, all unified with the Father.


Caino

freelight
August 8th, 2010, 01:19 PM
Note:

In the UB the Trinity is the creator of the creator sons. Jesus therefore was not the second person of the Trinity, he is a son of or creation of the Trinity.

There are many other divine beings, all unified with the Father.


Caino

This is an important distinction which the Papers reveal, for Jesus is not the 'Eternal Son' within the Original Trinity, but of the descending order of Creator Sons(known as 'Michaels') emenating from the One Eternal Son of The Trinity of trinities. Jesus being a 'Creator Son' is our local universe 'Father' as far as our relationship to him as Creator, father, brother, friend, Sovereign Lord, Universe Prince...is concerned (Jesus has many titles). Remember though, that behind Jesus in the divine Heirarchy, is ever the Supreme Trinity, who is original and ancestral to all that exists, including the higher deity sons of God who descend in order from the purest light of divinity.

Of course those interested can read the Papers for themselves to learn more. We've shared recommendations on where to start. The choice is yours.


Intro. to the Urantia Papers (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14004).


pj

freelight
August 8th, 2010, 01:30 PM
The Urantia Book

Paper 119

THE BESTOWALS OF CHRIST MICHAEL

http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1371




The Creator Sons go thru 7 incarnational bestowals as experiencing life in mortal form (among various planets of their creation) before gaining their sovereign rulership over their universe. The Papers honor and teach the divine mystery of the Incarnation and uphold both the divinity and humanity of Jesus, yet from its own greater cosmic perspective and significance. Yes, Jesus is 'God' to us, and rightly so...as far as we are concerned in this local universe creation, ...although his divinity is also re-presenting those divine powers and personality that are ancestral to him in the divine personalities of the Supreme Trinity. The Papers give one a 'bigger picture'.


Adjusting scope...........



pj

Caino
August 8th, 2010, 02:04 PM
Thanks freelight,

Your explanation is an excellent portrayal of the teachings of the papers. I must confess that at times i feel less then enthusiastic about trying to explain these things as Christians without fail reject the notion that Jesus is not the second person of the Trinity.

It marked a tremendous millstone when former Jewish monotheist converted to Christianity and were willing to say "ok, there's one God and ONE Son"! We cant handle any more revelations about other unified Gods or sons.

Caino

Caino
August 9th, 2010, 07:12 AM
"Always keep in mind: true religion is to know God as your Father and man as your brother. Religion is not a slavish belief in threats of punishment or magical promises of future mystical rewards."UB



Caino

ThePresbyteers
August 9th, 2010, 08:58 AM
How does the Urantia Book describe the term, Qi?

Stuu
August 9th, 2010, 09:44 AM
Game show hosted by Stephen Fry. It deals in reality, not fantasy stories mixed up with plagiarised pre-1950 science.

Stuart

Caino
August 9th, 2010, 10:07 AM
Game show hosted by Stephen Fry. It deals in reality, not fantasy stories mixed up with plagiarised pre-1950 science.

Stuart

The Urantia Book made scientific statements pre 1950 which were at odds with the science at that time. Some of those statements have now been proven true, facts which could not have been known or were not yet proven at the time.

The UB has not plagiarized anything, rather, Stuu is grasping at straws, swatting at gnats but swallowing camels.

There has never, ever, anywhere on this earth, been ONE case brought against Urantia Foundation by any author or their descendants concerning plagiarism. In many cases, the parallel sentences or paragraphs used by the celestials were edited to give the correct meaning intended.

Source material:

http://squarecircles.com/urantiabooksourcestudies/index.htm


UB:


ACKNOWLEDGMENT


0:12.10 In formulating the succeeding presentations having to do with the portrayal of the character of the Universal Father and the nature of his Paradise associates, together with an attempted description of the perfect central universe and the encircling seven superuniverses, we are to be guided by the mandate of the superuniverse rulers which directs that we shall, in all our efforts to reveal truth and co-ordinate essential knowledge, give preference to the highest existing human concepts pertaining to the subjects to be presented. We may resort to pure revelation only when the concept of presentation has had no adequate previous expression by the human mind.

0:12.11 Successive planetary revelations of divine truth invariably embrace the highest existing concepts of spiritual values as a part of the new and enhanced co-ordination of planetary knowledge. Accordingly, in making these presentations about God and his universe associates, we have selected as the basis of these papers more than one thousand human concepts representing the highest and most advanced planetary knowledge of spiritual values and universe meanings. Wherein these human concepts, assembled from the God-knowing mortals of the past and the present, are inadequate to portray the truth as we are directed to reveal it, we will unhesitatingly supplement them, for this purpose drawing upon our own superior knowledge of the reality and divinity of the Paradise Deities and their transcendent residential universe.

0:12.12 We are fully cognizant of the difficulties of our assignment; we recognize the impossibility of fully translating the language of the concepts of divinity and eternity into the symbols of the language of the finite concepts of the mortal mind. But we know that there dwells within the human mind a fragment of God, and that there sojourns with the human soul the Spirit of Truth; and we further know that these spirit forces conspire to enable material man to grasp the reality of spiritual values and to comprehend the philosophy of universe meanings. But even more certainly we know that these spirits of the Divine Presence are able to assist man in the spiritual appropriation of all truth contributory to the enhancement of the ever-progressing reality of personal religious experience—God-consciousness.

0:12.13 [Indited by an Orvonton Divine Counselor, chief of the corps of superuniverse personalities assigned to portray on Urantia the truth concerning the Paradise Deities and the universe of universes.]


Caino

freelight
August 9th, 2010, 10:20 AM
Game show hosted by Stephen Fry. It deals in reality, not fantasy stories mixed up with plagiarised pre-1950 science.

Stuart

We've addressed the plagarism issue HERE (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2168168&postcount=275).

Matthew Block has done much research in discovering the human sources of knowledge that the revelators used in addition to adding new insight and revelation where appropriate.

Some human sources for the Urantia Book (http://www.squarecircles.com/urantiabooksourcestudies/1992sources/sourcesoftheurantiabook.htm)

As the revelators admit, some human sources were used naturally as such being part of the present body of planetary knowledge at that time. However, much of what is shared in the UB is new or original. Most who appreciate the UB and recognize these matters(and other controversies) will dismiss your aspersions. :p



pj

Caino
August 9th, 2010, 10:35 AM
Thanks for your input freelight. We may also point out the reasoning for the revelators use of our linguistic forms, they speak a far different language then we do, were they to have used their own language structure then much would have been lost. They stated that they dramatically dumbed down the new concepts presented but went on to say that they had faith in the spirit which indwells man to be able to form the thoughts, meanings and values which they were attempting to communicate to us.


C

freelight
August 9th, 2010, 02:56 PM
Thanks for your input freelight. We may also point out the reasoning for the revelators use of our linguistic forms, they speak a far different language then we do, were they to have used their own language structure then much would have been lost. They stated that they dramatically dumbed down the new concepts presented but went on to say that they had faith in the spirit which indwells man to be able to form the thoughts, meanings and values which they were attempting to communicate to us.


C


:)

I think its peculiar that so many appear to feel 'safe' or 'secure' by vesting themselves in a certain denomination, theology, cult-ure, mentality, 'ism'...which bars them from being open to freely investigate other perspectives, schools, viewpoints....in the spirit of discovery, exploration and intention to learn more, expand consciousness.

As Paul agrees, "examine(test) all things, hold fast to that which is good". Many religious writings of various traditions and cultures yield positive teachings, spiritual wisdom, and intellectual insights...profitable on varying levels of application and context. The Papers are wonderful in and of themselves, within their own philosophical and cosmic-context, which of course is interpreted within that 'context' of the Revelation as a whole (epochal perspective/significance). I enjoy gleaning certain portions or refer back to see what the Papers say about a certain subject, just as I draw from other writings as well. The Universe discloses its own nature, directives, potentials and possibilities, which come to us thru the natural course of 'evolution' as well as special dispensations of 'revelation'.


To the Bright and Morning Star,



pj

Stuu
August 10th, 2010, 01:22 AM
What a cozy mutual admiration society this is. You insult intelligent people everywhere by countering valid accusations of plagiarism with fatuous quotes attributed to imaginary beings. Are you both four years old??

The science it did get right it stole without credit to the scientists who did the actual work, and the much of it is just plain wrong because the science of the 1950s is not necessarily current. Obviously.

I suggest the two of you grow at least one conscience between you and stop spewing your lame nonsense over the one area of human endeavour that has benefited you the most of any.

Or else give back your car keys and antibiotics.

Stuart

ThePresbyteers
August 10th, 2010, 05:59 AM
How does the Urantia Book describe the term, Qi?
?

Caino
August 10th, 2010, 07:43 AM
What a cozy mutual admiration society this is. You insult intelligent people everywhere by countering valid accusations of plagiarism with fatuous quotes attributed to imaginary beings. Are you both four years old??

The science it did get right it stole without credit to the scientists who did the actual work, and the much of it is just plain wrong because the science of the 1950s is not necessarily current. Obviously.

I suggest the two of you grow at least one conscience between you and stop spewing you're lame nonsense over the one area of human endeavour that has benefited you the most of any.

Or else give back your car keys and antibiotics.

Stuart

Stu,

I've provided a long sampling of the source parallels. Anyone with any intellectual honesty can see that there is no more plagiarism then one writing a book report on a book they read; similar terms and word groupings would be expected. That’s not plagiarism. And if you feel that it is then be the first to bring a law suit. No one else has.

Several examples of scientific validation have been given to you but your to angry and proud to concede.



Caino

Caino
August 10th, 2010, 07:50 AM
?

Qi as "the holy spirit"


THE PRESENCE OF GOD

8:5.1 "The outstanding attribute of the Infinite Spirit is omnipresence. Throughout all the universe of universes there is everywhere present this all-pervading spirit, which is so akin to the presence of a universal and divine mind. Both the Second Person and the Third Person of Deity are represented on all worlds by their ever-present spirits.

8:5.2 The Father is infinite and is therefore limited only by volition. In the bestowal of Adjusters and in the encircuitment of personality, the Father acts alone, but in the contact of spirit forces with intelligent beings, he utilizes the spirits and personalities of the Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit. He is at will spiritually present equally with the Son or with the Conjoint Actor; he is present with the Son and in the Spirit. The Father is most certainly everywhere present, and we discern his presence by and through any and all of these diverse but associated forces, influences, and presences.

8:5.3 In your sacred writings the term Spirit of God seems to be used interchangeably to designate both the Infinite Spirit on Paradise and the Creative Spirit of your local universe. The Holy Spirit is the spiritual circuit of this Creative Daughter of the Paradise Infinite Spirit. The Holy Spirit is a circuit indigenous to each local universe and is confined to the spiritual realm of that creation; but the Infinite Spirit is omnipresent.

8:5.4 There are many spiritual influences, and they are all as one. Even the work of the Thought Adjusters, though independent of all other influences, unvaryingly coincides with the spirit ministry of the combined influences of the Infinite Spirit and a local universe Mother Spirit. As these spiritual presences operate in the lives of Urantians, they cannot be segregated. In your minds and upon your souls they function as one spirit, notwithstanding their diverse origins. And as this united spiritual ministration is experienced, it becomes to you the influence of the Supreme, "who is ever able to keep you from failing and to present you blameless before your Father on high."

8:5.5 Ever remember that the Infinite Spirit is the Conjoint Actor; both the Father and the Son are functioning in and through him; he is present not only as himself but also as the Father and as the Son and as the Father-Son. In recognition of this and for many additional reasons the spirit presence of the Infinite Spirit is often referred to as "the spirit of God."

8:5.6 It would also be consistent to refer to the liaison of all spiritual ministry as the spirit of God, for such a liaison is truly the union of the spirits of God the Father, God the Son, God the Spirit, and God the Sevenfold—even the spirit of God the Supreme".



Caino

Caino
August 10th, 2010, 11:49 AM
The Urantia Book

Paper 62

THE DAWN RACES OF EARLY MAN

ABOUT ONE MILLION years ago the immediate ancestors of mankind made their appearance by three successive and sudden mutations stemming from early stock of the lemur type of placental mammal. The dominant factors of these early lemurs were derived from the western or later American group of the evolving life plasm. But before establishing the direct line of human ancestry, this strain was reinforced by contributions from the central life implantation evolved in Africa. The eastern life group contributed little or nothing to the actual production of the human species.



1. THE EARLY LEMUR TYPES

62:1.1 The early lemurs concerned in the ancestry of the human species were not directly related to the pre-existent tribes of gibbons and apes then living in Eurasia and northern Africa, whose progeny have survived to the present time. Neither were they the offspring of the modern type of lemur, though springing from an ancestor common to both but long since extinct.

62:1.2 While these early lemurs evolved in the Western Hemisphere, the establishment of the direct mammalian ancestry of mankind took place in southwestern Asia, in the original area of the central life implantation but on the borders of the eastern regions. Several million years ago the North American type lemurs had migrated westward over the Bering land bridge and had slowly made their way southwestward along the Asiatic coast. These migrating tribes finally reached the salubrious region lying between the then expanded Mediterranean Sea and the elevating mountainous regions of the Indian peninsula. In these lands to the west of India they united with other and favorable strains, thus establishing the ancestry of the human race.

62:1.3 With the passing of time the seacoast of India southwest of the mountains gradually submerged, completely isolating the life of this region. There was no avenue of approach to, or escape from, this Mesopotamian or Persian peninsula except to the north, and that was repeatedly cut off by the southern invasions of the glaciers. And it was in this then almost paradisiacal area, and from the superior descendants of this lemur type of mammal, that there sprang two great groups, the simian tribes of modern times and the present-day human species.

http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1309#U62_0_1



Caino

Stuu
August 11th, 2010, 04:01 AM
Stu,

I've provided a long sampling of the source parallels. Anyone with any intellectual honesty can see that there is no more plagiarism then one writing a book report on a book they read; similar terms and word groupings would be expected. That’s not plagiarism. And if you feel that it is then be the first to bring a law suit. No one else has.

Several examples of scientific validation have been given to you but your to angry and proud to concede.



Caino
Show me one example from your arrogant and thieving book where an established scientific principle is attributed to the scientist who discovered or developed it. Just to get you started, I can tell you that the names of the three most significant contributors of the past two centuries in each of physics, chemistry and biology, Einstein, Rutherford and Darwin, do not appear anywhere in it.

It arrogantly and thievingly fails to attribute their their brilliant work to them, and insults the risks they took in the pursuit of knowledge that benefits us all.

That reflects poorly on the character of every person who quotes it.

Shall I lift paragraphs from your posts and attribute them to the Sesame Street Cookie Monster?

Stuart

Caino
August 11th, 2010, 06:59 AM
Show me one example from your arrogant and thieving book where an established scientific principle is attributed to the scientist who discovered or developed it. Just to get you started, I can tell you that the names of the three most significant contributors of the past two centuries in each of physics, chemistry and biology, Einstein, Rutherford and Darwin, do not appear anywhere in it.

It arrogantly and thievingly fails to attribute their their brilliant work to them, and insults the risks they took in the pursuit of knowledge that benefits us all.

That reflects poorly on the character of every person who quotes it.

Shall I lift paragraphs from your posts and attribute them to the Sesame Street Cookie Monster?

Stuart
The authority behind the UB created the principles that these great men you cite merely discovered. You talk as if they invented them and due homage should be paid. Maybe they should appropriately credit God for that which already existed and they merely observe????

What about the late "discoveries" which were already reveled in the UB but science is only now realizing? Urantia Foundation does not demand credit for those things.

The science in the UB is in some cases totally different then currently accepted norms.



"Einstein denied several times that black holes could form. In 1939 he published a paper that argues that a star collapsing would spin faster and faster, spinning at the speed of light with infinite energy well before the point where it is about to collapse into a black hole. This paper received no citations, and the conclusions are well understood to be wrong. Einstein’s argument itself is inconclusive, since he only shows that stable spinning objects have to spin faster and faster to stay stable before the point where they collapse. But it is well understood today (and was understood well by some even then) that collapse cannot happen through stationary states the way Einstein imagined. Nevertheless, the extent to which the models of black holes in classical general relativity correspond to physical reality remains unclear, and in particular the implications of the central singularity implicit in these models are still not understood. Efforts to conclusively prove the existence of event horizons have still not been successful, and most scientists acknowledge that no such proof is even possible"

The Forum at Dr. Saddlers studied dark islands and dark gravity bodies in the 20’s and 30’s, long before Einstein even had a chance to deny them.....which he was subsequently proven wrong!!!!!!!!

"The dark Islands of Space. These are the dead suns and other large aggregations of matter devoid of light and heat. The dark islands are sometimes enormous in mass and exert a powerful influence in universe equilibrium and energy manipulation. The density of some of these large masses is well-nigh unbelievable. And this great concentration of mass enables these dark islands to function as powerful balance wheels, holding large neighboring systems in effective leash. They hold the gravity balance of power in many constellations; many physical systems which would otherwise speedily dive to destruction in near-by suns are held securely in the gravity grasp of these guardian dark islands. It is because of this function that we can locate them accurately. We have measured the gravity pull of the luminous bodies, and we can therefore calculate the exact size and location of the dark islands of space which so effectively function to hold a given system steady in its course."
=
=
=
"On the outskirts of this vast central universe, far out beyond the seventh belt of Havona worlds, there swirl an unbelievable number of enormous dark gravity bodies. These multitudinous dark masses are quite unlike other space bodies in many particulars; even in form they are very different. These dark gravity bodies neither reflect nor absorb light; they are nonreactive to physical-energy light, and they so completely encircle and enshroud Havona as to hide it from the view of even near-by inhabited universes of time and space."



The UB expands on evolution far beyond Darwins theories.

Scientific validation can be found here:

http://www.ubthenews.com/index.htm


Caino

Caino
August 11th, 2010, 07:15 AM
PARADISE FORCES AND ENERGIES

http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1289

42:1.1 The foundation of the universe is material, but the essence of life is spirit. The Father of spirits is also the ancestor of universes; the eternal Father of the Original Son is also the eternity-source of the original pattern, the Isle of Paradise.

42:1.2 Matter—energy—for they are but diverse manifestations of the same cosmic reality, as a universe phenomenon is inherent in the Universal Father. "In him all things consist." Matter may appear to manifest inherent energy and to exhibit self-contained powers, but the lines of gravity involved in the energies concerned in all these physical phenomena are derived from, and are dependent on, Paradise, The ultimaton, the first measurable form of energy, has Paradise as its nucleus.

42:1.3 There is innate in matter and present in universal space a form of energy not known on Urantia. When this discovery is finally made, then will physicists feel that they have solved, almost at least, the mystery of matter. And so will they have approached one step nearer the Creator; so will they have mastered one more phase of the divine technique; but in no sense will they have found God, neither will they have established the existence of matter or the operation of natural laws apart from the cosmic technique of Paradise and the motivating purpose of the Universal Father.

42:1.4 Subsequent to even still greater progress and further discoveries, after Urantia has advanced immeasurably in comparison with present knowledge, though you should gain control of the energy revolutions of the electrical units of matter to the extent of modifying their physical manifestations—even after all such possible progress, forever will scientists be powerless to create one atom of matter or to originate one flash of energy or ever to add to matter that which we call life.

42:1.5 The creation of energy and the bestowal of life are the prerogatives of the Universal Father and his associate Creator personalities. The river of energy and life is a continuous outpouring from the Deities, the universal and united stream of Paradise force going forth to all space. This divine energy pervades all creation. The force organizers initiate those changes and institute those modifications of space-force which eventuate in energy; the power directors transmute energy into matter; thus the material worlds are born. The Life Carriers initiate those processes in dead matter which we call life, material life. The Morontia Power Supervisors likewise perform throughout the transition realms between the material and the spiritual worlds. The higher spirit Creators inaugurate similar processes in divine forms of energy, and there ensue the higher spirit forms of intelligent life.

42:1.6 Energy proceeds from Paradise, fashioned after the divine order. Energy—pure energy—partakes of the nature of the divine organization; it is fashioned after the similitude of the three Gods embraced in one, as they function at the headquarters of the universe of universes. And all force is circuited in Paradise, comes from the Paradise Presences and returns thereto, and is in essence a manifestation of the uncaused Cause—the Universal Father; and without the Father would not anything exist that does exist.

42:1.7 Force derived from self-existent Deity is in itself ever existent. Force-energy is imperishable, indestructible; these manifestations of the Infinite may be subject to unlimited transmutation, endless transformation, and eternal metamorphosis; but in no sense or degree, not even to the slightest imaginable extent, could they or ever shall they suffer extinction. But energy, though springing from the Infinite, is not infinitely manifest; there are outer limits to the presently conceived master universe.

42:1.8 Energy is eternal but not infinite; it ever responds to the all-embracing grasp of Infinity. Forever force and energy go on; having gone out from Paradise, they must return thereto, even if age upon age be required for the completion of the ordained circuit. That which is of Paradise Deity origin can have only a Paradise destination or a Deity destiny.

42:1.9 And all this confirms our belief in a circular, somewhat limited, but orderly and far-flung universe of universes. If this were not true, then evidence of energy depletion at some point would sooner or later appear. All laws, organizations, administration, and the testimony of universe explorers—everything points to the existence of an infinite God but, as yet, a finite universe, a circularity of endless existence, well-nigh limitless but, nevertheless, finite in contrast with infinity.

Stuu
August 11th, 2010, 08:13 AM
42:1.2 Matter—energy—for they are but diverse manifestations of the same cosmic reality,
A principle FIRST described by Einstein, not by your fatuous book. Since Einstein got there first, he is due credit. Your book stole this after Einstein yet does not acknowledge his work. It matters not a blind difference what imaginary creatures or anonymous authors you claim were thinking about this earlier on, that is all completely irrelevant. The basic principles of intellectual rights say your book has stolen it.


scientists be powerless to create one atom of matter or to originate one flash of energy or ever to add to matter that which we call life.
Getting more and more out of date by the month.


Force-energy is imperishable, indestructible;
Is that force? Or is it energy? Or is it force times energy?

Energy equals force times distance.


From those nine paragraphs you posted I selected the three items that are demonstrably of relevance to the real world. Your book has failed to credit the first publisher of the principle of mass-energy equivalence and on the other two counts either has it wrong, or will have it wrong in the foreseeable future. What will you do when life is completely created without using parts of existing cells, which has virtually already been done? Will you edit this steaming tome of theft or just leave in that wrong bit?

Of course if it is all badly-written science fiction then you just have to say. Shame none of the preachers from this book can man up and say it is all invention that steals science and weaves it into a fictional narrative.

The parts of your post I deleted constitute some of the dullest fantasy prose posted on TOL. Why not learn about real, properly credited science? It, and the real stories behind it are far more engaging.

Stuart

Stuu
August 11th, 2010, 08:17 AM
The UB expands on evolution far beyond Darwins theories.
How, exactly?

Stuart

Caino
August 11th, 2010, 09:11 AM
.....this is a case where the UB actually avoided agreeing with widly accepted but wrong science at the time:


Mercury’s Rotation

Mercury’s Rotation Summary
[Updated 2/8/07]

"The Urantia Book states that tidal friction causes the axial rotation of heavenly bodies to slow to a stop (relative to the body around which they revolve) and cites Mercury and the moon as examples. It has long been well established that the rotation of the moon has stopped, and it was also believed at the time of publication (1955) that Mercury's rotation had ceased. Though the widely held belief at the time of The Urantia Book's publication was that Mercury had stopped rotating, when The Urantia Book addressed the subject of tidal friction slowing orbiting bodies to a stop, it did not state that Mercury had stopped and only portrayed the moon as a body that had stopped rotating due to tidal friction. In 1965 we learned that Mercury does have a slow rotation. The Urantia Book avoided the trap of agreeing with science that was wrong, but widely accepted, at the time of its publication.




http://www.ubthenews.com/topics/mercury.htm


Caino

Caino
August 11th, 2010, 09:20 AM
Stuu? Really, my ole sparring foe, if you could bring yourself to open your mind and take an honest view of the UB you could gain an entirely new perspective on spirituality, on God.

I recall the time when I ate crow because I had misstated something from the UB. A little reciprocation could help.

Here is yet another case of "How the heck could they have guessed this??????"




Inner Ionosphere


Inner Ionosphere Summary



"In discussing earth's atmosphere, The Urantia Book states the following, "The lower five or six miles of the earth's atmosphere is the troposphere; this is the region of winds and air currents which provide weather phenomena. Above this region is the inner ionosphere and next above is the stratosphere." Urantia Book enthusiasts and critics alike have long considered this statement[U] to be a mistake because the longstanding understanding of the earth's atmosphere has been that the ionosphere exists above the stratosphere.

However, in the late 1980's and early 1990's, over thirty years after The Urantia Book's publication, observation of "blue jets" were conclusively documented and accepted as an atmospheric condition. Notwithstanding that this phenomenon is still not well understood, what has been learned about blue jets indicates that there must be an ionospheric layer below the stratosphere. Blue jets form above thunderclouds and often reach a height of about 25 miles above sea level. The long-recognized ionosphere, which exists above the stratosphere, begins at around 30 miles above sea level.

Calculations based on videos taken of blue jets, as well as other associated research, indicate that the ionic condition necessary to create their luminescent quality could not have its source in the thunderclouds over which they occur."



Caino

Caino
August 11th, 2010, 10:58 AM
Telegraph.uk.com


Blue eyes result of ancient genetic 'mutation'

By Roger Highfield, Science Editor
Published: 7:27AM GMT 30 Jan 2008.....................


Uantia Book 1955:



ORIGIN OF THE COLORED RACES

64:5.1 500,000 years ago the Badonan tribes of the northwestern highlands of India became involved in another great racial struggle. For more than one hundred years this relentless warfare raged, and when the long fight was finished, only about one hundred families were left. But these survivors were the most intelligent and desirable of all the then living descendants of Andon and Fonta.

64:5.2 And now, among these highland Badonites there was a new and strange occurrence. A man and woman living in the northeastern part of the then inhabited highland region began suddenly to produce a family of unusually intelligent children. This was the Sangik family, the ancestors of all of the six colored races of Urantia.

64:5.3 These Sangik children, nineteen in number, were not only intelligent above their fellows, but their skins manifested a unique tendency to turn various colors upon exposure to sunlight. Among these nineteen children were five red, two orange, four yellow, two green, four blue, and two indigo. These colors became more pronounced as the children grew older, and when these youths later mated with their fellow tribesmen, all of their offspring tended toward the skin color of the Sangik parent.

64:5.4 And now I interrupt the chronological narrative, after calling attention to the arrival of the Planetary Prince at about this time, while we separately consider the six Sangik races of Urantia.

---------------------------------------------------------------------


74:0.1 Adam and Eve arrived on Urantia [Earth], from the year A.D. 1934, 37,848 years ago.

76:4.1 Adam and Eve were the founders of the violet race of men . . . Adam and his offspring had blue eyes, and the violet peoples were characterized by fair complexions and light hair color--yellow, red, and brown.

63:4.1 Primitive man—the Andonites—had black eyes and a swarthy complexion, something of a cross between yellow and red.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Eye, Skin, and Hair Color Supporting Links


Select quotes from this article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/3323607/Blue-eyes-result-of-ancient-genetic-mutation.html

“Originally, we all had brown eyes”, said Prof Hans Eiberg from the University of Copenhagen, who led the team.


Blue eye colour most likely originated from the near east area or northwest part of the Black Sea region, where the great agriculture migration to the northern part of Europe took place in the Neolithic periods about six–10,000 years ago.


“That is my best guess,” he said. “It could be the northern part of Afghanistan.”


NOTE:"THE ANDITES OF TURKESTAN ANDITE EXPANSION IN THE ORIENT ASIA is the homeland of the human race. It was on a southern peninsula of this continent that Andon and Fonta were born; in the highlands of what is now Afghanistan, their descendant Badonan founded a primitive center of culture that persisted for over one-half million years. Here at this eastern focus of the human race the Sangik peoples differentiated from the Andonic stock, and Asia was their first home, their first hunting ground, their first battlefield. Southwestern Asia witnessed the successive civilizations of Dalamatians, Nodites, Adamites, and Andites, and from these regions the potentials of modern civilization spread to the world."UB 1955



The mutation affected a gene called OCA2 and “literally 'turned off' the ability to produce brown eyes”, he says.


OCA2 is involved in the production of melanin, the pigment that gives colour to hair, eyes and skin."

Select quotes from this article:

http://www.lifescientist.com.au/article/181144/genetic_interactions_determine_hair_skin_colour

"OCA2 is the major gene for blue eyes, but we can get different hues of blue, depending on what other alleles it is interacting with - OCA2 accounts for around 74 per cent of the effect.

"OCA4 and NCAX5 turn out to have major population-based differences in allele frequencies. They appear to be major genes associated with skin colour."

"The low level of variation within the European haplotypes harbouring the OCA4 and NCKX5 alleles points to strong selection pressure for lighter skin colour - and increased vitamin D synthesis - in European populations around 30,000 years ago."

Full journal article from Copenhagen

http://www.springerlink.com/content/2045q6234h66p744/fulltext.html






Eye, Skin, and Hair Color Additional Links
http://www.livescience.com/health/080131-blue-eyes.html blue eyed people all came from one common ancestor, but 10K years ago, especially in northern europe
http://www.biotechnews.com.au/index.php/id;1529171603 hair color at 40K

http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/2008/201/1 researcher says link to one source is unexpected; some researchers do not speculate about when it occurred

http://www.imb.uq.edu.au/index.html?id=11690 more detailed scientific study

http://www.ajhg.org/AJHG/abstract/S0002-9297(07)00040-7 abstract of scientific report

http://www.mytravelguide.com/g/maps/Black-Sea-map.gif map of Black Sea

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/02/blue-eyes-a-res.html good little summary of early ’08 material

http://www.north-by-north-east.com/articles/04_04_1.asp Hmong are said to have had and continue to have a good amount of blonde hair, non assimilating


Caino

Caino
August 11th, 2010, 11:16 AM
How, exactly?

Stuart

The UB explains where life was made, where it was implanted on the original single continent, then the long evolutionary history with many interesting statements such as why the dinosaurs vanished (science hasn’t figure it out yet, we already know). etc.

Anyhow, if you want more imfo then read the papers yourself. I feel you just want to argue and do not sincerely want to learn anything. You lack an open mind.


Caino

Caino
August 11th, 2010, 11:42 AM
Ocean Origin (preliminary information)

Review

Addtional Links

Corroborations are coming to the attention of UBtheNEWS far faster than we can prepare reports. To help people better appreciate this aspect of the project and to be of service to those who would like to participate in the development of these reports, preliminary information is being provided. Information in the various preliminary reports is posted at different stages of completion, depending on how work on reports was prioritized and then reprioritized. Please get in touch if you have additional information that is relevant to the preparation of one these upcoming reports.



See Dr. Chris Halvorson's History of Life article (its only a couple pages long) for an appreciation of how and why Urantia Book dates for ancient times are different that radiometric dating. UBtheNEWS is working with Dr. Halvorson on a new paper, written for those unfamiliar with The Urantia Book, that will more directly and fully address this issue in relationship to UBtheNEWS reports.

Notwithstanding the 4:1 ratio between radiometric dating and Urantia Book dates for the planets early history, corroborations are developing nonetheless. Sometimes this occurs when the sequential order of ancient events becomes more aligned with The Urantia Book. And in some instances, like this one concerning the location of oldest rock exposure on the face of the earth, new discoveries support other types of assertions about planetary history.

The relevant passage comes from Paper 57: The Origin of Urantia, Section 8: Crustal Stabilization, The Age of Earthquakes, The World Ocean, and The First Continent:





57:8.3 The real geologic history of Urantia begins with the cooling of the earth's crust sufficiently to cause the formation of the first ocean. Water-vapor condensation on the cooling surface of the earth, once begun, continued until it was virtually complete. By the end of this period the ocean was world-wide, covering the entire planet to an average depth of over one mile. The tides were then in play much as they are now observed, but this primitive ocean was not salty; it was practically a fresh-water covering for the world. In those days, most of the chlorine was combined with various metals, but there was enough, in union with hydrogen, to render this water faintly acid.

57:8.4 At the opening of this faraway era, Urantia should be envisaged as a water-bound planet. Later on, deeper and hence denser lava flows came out upon the bottom of the present Pacific ocean, and this part of the water-covered surface became considerably depressed. The first continental land mass emerged from the world ocean in compensatory adjustment of the equilibrium of the gradually thickening earth's crust.

57:8.5 950,000,000 years ago Urantia presents the picture of one great continent of land and one large body of water, the Pacific ocean. Volcanoes are still widespread and earthquakes are both frequent and severe. Meteors continue to bombard the earth, but they are diminishing in both frequency and size. The atmosphere is clearing up, but the amount of carbon dioxide continues large. The earth's crust is gradually stabilizing.



Ocean Origin Related Links
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadean

Study of zircons has found that liquid water must have existed as long ago as 4400 Ma, very soon after the formation of the Earth.[5][6][7] This requires the presence of an atmosphere. The Cool Early Earth theory covers a range from about 4400 Ma to 4000 Ma.
A September 2008 study of zircons found that Australian Hadean rock holds minerals that point to the existence of plate tectonics as early as 4 billion years ago.[8] If this holds true, the previous beliefs about the Hadean period are far from correct.




Caino

Caino
August 11th, 2010, 01:38 PM
Gobekli Tepe

http://www.ubthenews.com/topics/Gobekli_Tepe.htm




Gobekli Tepe Summary

Prepared by Halbert, Claire Miller, and Andrew Myers with special thanks to Donna Whelan

[3/10/10]

"In 1994, almost forty years after The Urantia Book’s 1955 publication, excavations began at the Gobekli Tepe archaeological site in Turkey. This site has produced over 50 Stonehenge-type rock carvings and other artifacts, some of which date back to at least 12,000 years ago. A full excavation to the bottom of the site has not yet occurred. The artifacts are especially inconsistent with prevailing theories about the development of civilization. Every place else in the world where ancient civilizations have built structures with enormous stones, there is also evidence that they were settled communities that practiced herding and farming. Prevailing theories about this region suggest that around 11,000 years ago, primitive man was just beginning to evolve from being a hunter-gatherer to a herder-farmer.

However, the discoveries at Gobekli Tepe are altogether consistent with The Urantia Book’s assertion that a well-developed herder-farmer civilization existed in this area, during this time period, and for more than 10,000 years previously. Additionally, there is strong evidence indicating that the site was intentionally buried about 8,000 years ago. This peculiar aspect of the Gobekli Tepe site, while difficult for archaeologists to explain, perfectly parallels The Urantia Book’s assertion that, at around this time, inferior and more barbaric tribes drove out this more peaceful and advanced, but declining, civilization.".......



Caino

One Truth
August 11th, 2010, 02:33 PM
Show me one example from your arrogant and thieving book where an established scientific principle is attributed to the scientist who discovered or developed it. Just to get you started, I can tell you that the names of the three most significant contributors of the past two centuries in each of physics, chemistry and biology, Einstein, Rutherford and Darwin, do not appear anywhere in it.

It arrogantly and thievingly fails to attribute their their brilliant work to them, and insults the risks they took in the pursuit of knowledge that benefits us all.

That reflects poorly on the character of every person who quotes it.

Shall I lift paragraphs from your posts and attribute them to the Sesame Street Cookie Monster?

Stuart

Stuart

The Revelators of The Urantia Papers were not in the business of exalting the ego of the humans who may have been involved in any "discoveries" or "developments" of any scientific, psychological or social endeavors. Doing so would have drawn the attention away from the Truth as they so skillfully and amazingly drew together those "discoveries" that mankind was already involved in, bringing to light (to conscious awareness) those truths regarding the cosmos and the origins of mankind. Their revelation of the origin of man is quite different than Darwin's and they expound upon the "theory" of relativity. It was not that they were plagiarizing nor giving credit where "credit was due", because surely the "credit" must go to the Creator not the discoverer. I am sure Darwin and especially Einstein would be appalled at being given "credit" for anything that had to do with something that was not theirs to have credit for. Darwin did not "create" evolution, he only uncovered some truths regarding it. Einstein did not "create" relativity, he only made the discovery of it and other physics related matters.

Einstein was probably the least egotistical human alive in his position of knowledge.

Anyway, your anger and animosity towards The Urantia Papers is very interesting. Have you ever actually read the entire book?

One Truth
August 11th, 2010, 03:30 PM
I'm not religious or a religious authority, in any form. I'm Christian, and we're set free from religious trappings, such as the bondage of the New Age movement.

I have not read it. One doesn't have to read fiction to recognize that it is fiction; or to recognize the foolishness of someone who's been duped by it and other similar fiction. The light that is in the Urantia Book is darkness, that much is clear.

This is a typical response and a very sad and very revealing one. It reminds me of the way I was; very narrow-minded, in deep bondage to a religion (Christianity) and most of it's trappings, very judgmental, without any openess to the Truth (although I thought I was the keeper of the "real" Truth - the Bible), blocking every attempt of the indwelling Spirit to bring me into a higher truth, one in which I would be set free from all religions and a truth which would lead me into true religion -- the religion of the spirit -- the religion of Jesus.

It has been difficult in some ways to allow the Spirit of Truth to clean out my pre-conceived ideas about God, Jesus, revelation, myself, and the Bible and all it's doctrinal teachings, but the more I surender to the Spirit of Truth, the freer I am and the closer to God I am. How do I know it is the Spirit of Truth and not some evil spirit? Because I belong to my Father and trust Him not to give me a scorpion when I have asked for fish. I seek Truth. Jesus said He is the Truth. I trust Him.

I have been a student of The Urantia Book for several years. I found the Book about 30 years ago and also considered it to be "heresy", demonic, and New Age. When I finally actually read it, I found that it answered my question, "there has to be more", which I had felt for years that there has to be more than Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Heaven, Hell, Salvation, the Bible and the Golden Rule.

When I found these Papers, I began to be set free from a bondage that is so sinister, so unconscious, so incredibly deep that most people do not recognize it until they are set free from it.

Why do I think I am not being deceived by The Urantia Book? Because, I recognize and experience God in a way that sets me free from fear. People who believe in hell and the "Lake of Fire" and the eternal punishment of God are living in fear. I know, I was there once. I no longer "fear" that my Father will send me to Hell. I no longer "fear" that if I don't believe the Atonement doctrine that God will send me to a burning hell to be tormented forever and ever. Why would I worship a God I am afraid of? That is a primitive and very unconscious concept of God.

2:4.2 God is inherently kind, naturally compassionate, and everlastingly merciful. And never is it necessary that any influence be brought to bear upon the Father to call forth his loving-kindness. The creature's need is wholly sufficient to insure the full flow of the Father's tender mercies and his saving grace. Since God knows all about his children, it is easy for him to forgive. The better man understands his neighbor, the easier it will be to forgive him, even to love him.

2:4.3 Only the discernment of infinite wisdom enables a righteous God to minister justice and mercy at the same time and in any given universe situation. The heavenly Father is never torn by conflicting attitudes towards his universe children; God is never a victim of attitudinal antagonisms. God's all-knowingness unfailingly directs his free will in the choosing of that universe conduct which perfectly, simultaneously, and equally satisfies the demands of all his divine attributes and the infinite qualities of his eternal nature.

2:4.4 Mercy is the natural and inevitable offspring of goodness and love. The good nature of a loving Father could not possibly withhold the wise ministry of mercy to each member of every group of his universe children. Eternal justice and divine mercy together constitute what in human experience would be called fairness.
I do pray that people who feel fear and who so desperately feel the need to defend these fear-based doctrines will soon awaken to the consciousness of Truth and find that the Father is indeed loving and all-forgiving and is interested in manifesting Himself to us, NOW. We do not have to wait.

freelight
August 11th, 2010, 04:38 PM
This is a typical response and a very sad and very revealing one. It reminds me of the way I was; very narrow-minded, in deep bondage to a religion (Christianity) and most of it's trappings, very judgmental, without any openess to the Truth (although I thought I was the keeper of the "real" Truth - the Bible), blocking every attempt of the indwelling Spirit to bring me into a higher truth, one in which I would be set free from all religions and a truth which would lead me into true religion -- the religion of the spirit -- the religion of Jesus.



Indeed,..... in 'God' there is no fear, but only the qualities of love, expansion, light, joy, bliss, progress, creativity, innovation, Life ever evolving.

Spirit is Life. Spirit is here, now, in its omnipresence, all-radiant.


Be not discouraged; human evolution is still in progress, and the revelation of God to the world, in and through Jesus, shall not fail. - UB, 196:3.30


One Love,



pj

ThePresbyteers
August 11th, 2010, 05:47 PM
. . .People who believe in hell and the "Lake of Fire" and the eternal punishment of God are living in fear.. . .
No Hell as stated in the Bible?

Stuu
August 12th, 2010, 03:25 AM
OneTruth


The Revelators of The Urantia Papers were not in the business of exalting the ego of the humans who may have been involved in any "discoveries" or "developments" of any scientific, psychological or social endeavors.
Maybe a lawsuit would have changed their minds.


Doing so would have drawn the attention away from the Truth as they so skillfully and amazingly drew together those "discoveries" that mankind was already involved in,
Science as it is conventionally done doesn’t seem to suffer for acclaiming the achievements of researchers. When you say involved in, you mean discovered for themselves without reference to a book that had not even yet been written, but all the same subsequently failed to credit the work.


bringing to light (to conscious awareness) those truths regarding the cosmos and the origins of mankind.
They arrived late. It had already been done by real geniuses with real names.


Their revelation of the origin of man is quite different than Darwin's and they expound upon the "theory" of relativity.
Do they. How completely irrelevant.


It was not that they were plagiarizing nor giving credit where "credit was due", because surely the "credit" must go to the Creator not the discoverer.
Why surely? What creator?


I am sure Darwin and especially Einstein would be appalled at being given "credit" for anything that had to do with something that was not theirs to have credit for.
I am sure they would have too.


Darwin did not "create" evolution, he only uncovered some truths regarding it. Einstein did not "create" relativity, he only made the discovery of it and other physics related matters.
Darwin created the theory that explained the fact of evolution. Einstein created the mathematical descriptions that gave shape to his concept. They both made brilliantly successful models of the things they studied, and that is what we celebrate.


Einstein was probably the least egotistical human alive in his position of knowledge.
So what? We were not asking Einstein to brag, just asking others to acknowledge his work rather than steal it and claim it for their religious mythology. If Einstein had been aware that his work was been stolen by religious nutcases I am sure that would have riled him more than others insisting he take credit for his work. He did fight hard for his ideas within the scientific community. The anonymous stealing cowards responsible for ripping off great scientists and coating that work it in their own odious fairy tale are worthless oiks. They had no love for the things they despoiled.


Anyway, your anger and animosity towards The Urantia Papers is very interesting. Have you ever actually read the entire book?
I am not angry at a book. I am simply pointing out that it is immoral to steal work without due credit. You claiming it is all down to your Imaginary Friends is a joke. Would you say it with a straight face? Is your delusion that strong? I’m not sure if I have read the whole book yet. I wouldn’t be surprised if I have. The problem I have is staying awake while reading it.

Stuart

Stuu
August 12th, 2010, 04:18 AM
Stuu? Really, my ole sparring foe, if you could bring yourself to open your mind and take an honest view of the UB you could gain an entirely new perspective on spirituality, on God.

I recall the time when I ate crow because I had misstated something from the UB. A little reciprocation could help.

Here is yet another case of "How the heck could they have guessed this??????"




Inner Ionosphere


Inner Ionosphere Summary



"In discussing earth's atmosphere, The Urantia Book states the following, "The lower five or six miles of the earth's atmosphere is the troposphere; this is the region of winds and air currents which provide weather phenomena. Above this region is the inner ionosphere and next above is the stratosphere." Urantia Book enthusiasts and critics alike have long considered this statement[U] to be a mistake because the longstanding understanding of the earth's atmosphere has been that the ionosphere exists above the stratosphere.

However, in the late 1980's and early 1990's, over thirty years after The Urantia Book's publication, observation of "blue jets" were conclusively documented and accepted as an atmospheric condition. Notwithstanding that this phenomenon is still not well understood, what has been learned about blue jets indicates that there must be an ionospheric layer below the stratosphere. Blue jets form above thunderclouds and often reach a height of about 25 miles above sea level. The long-recognized ionosphere, which exists above the stratosphere, begins at around 30 miles above sea level.

Calculations based on videos taken of blue jets, as well as other associated research, indicate that the ionic condition necessary to create their luminescent quality could not have its source in the thunderclouds over which they occur."



Caino
You could just as validly call the lowest 10km of the atmosphere the "inner ionosphere", or indeed any layer you wanted, because ionising events happen at any altitude.

What a load of tryhard nonsense.

Stuart

Caino
August 12th, 2010, 05:45 AM
Stuu,

I still don’t see why your making such a big deal over the UB's discussion of science (that which was already known) as common knowledge. The acknowledgement at the beginning of the book plainly says that they will use some of our knowledge and English language. So they effectively do give credit. If the UB is a fraud the authors still are not claiming to have made these discoveries themselves.

Maybe your reaction is over stated in order to avoid considering the other content of the papers?


ACKNOWLEDGMENT

In formulating the succeeding presentations having to do with the portrayal of the character of the Universal Father and the nature of his Paradise associates, together with an attempted description of the perfect central universe and the encircling seven superuniverses, we are to be guided by the mandate of the superuniverse rulers which directs that we shall, in all our efforts to reveal truth and co-ordinate essential knowledge, give preference to the highest existing human concepts pertaining to the subjects to be presented. We may resort to pure revelation only when the concept of presentation has had no adequate previous expression by the human mind.

Successive planetary revelations of divine truth invariably embrace the highest existing concepts of spiritual values as a part of the new and enhanced co-ordination of planetary knowledge. Accordingly, in making these presentations about God and his universe associates, we have selected as the basis of these papers more than one thousand human concepts representing the highest and most advanced planetary knowledge of spiritual values and universe meanings. Wherein these human concepts, assembled from the God-knowing mortals of the past and the present, are inadequate to portray the truth as we are directed to reveal it, we will unhesitatingly supplement them, for this purpose drawing upon our own superior knowledge of the reality and divinity of the Paradise Deities and their transcendent residential universe.

We are fully cognizant of the difficulties of our assignment; we recognize the impossibility of fully translating the language of the concepts of divinity and eternity into the symbols of the language of the finite concepts of the mortal mind. But we know that there dwells within the human mind a fragment of God, and that there sojourns with the human soul the Spirit of Truth; and we further know that these spirit forces conspire to enable material man to grasp the reality of spiritual values and to comprehend the philosophy of universe meanings. But even more certainly we know that these spirits of the Divine Presence are able to assist man in the spiritual appropriation of all truth contributory to the enhancement of the ever-progressing reality of personal religious experience—God-consciousness.

[Indited by an Orvonton Divine Counselor, chief of the corps of superuniverse personalities assigned to portray on Urantia the truth concerning the Paradise Deities and the universe of universes.]

Caino

Caino
August 12th, 2010, 06:14 AM
No Hell as stated in the Bible?

No Hell, just life or death, life eternal or extinction of being.

Caino

Caino
August 12th, 2010, 07:00 AM
"When once you grasp the idea of God as a true and loving Father, the only concept which Jesus ever taught, you must forthwith, in all consistency, utterly abandon all those primitive notions about God as an offended monarch, a stern and all-powerful ruler whose chief delight is to detect his subjects in wrongdoing and to see that they are adequately punished, unless some being almost equal to himself should volunteer to suffer for them, to die as a substitute and in their stead. The whole idea of ransom and atonement is incompatible with the concept of God as it was taught and exemplified by Jesus of Nazareth. The infinite love of God is not secondary to anything in the divine nature."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Apostle Paul, in his efforts to bring the teachings of Jesus to the favorable notice of certain groups in his day, wrote many letters of instruction and admonition. Other teachers of Jesus' gospel did likewise, but none of them realized that some of these writings would subsequently be brought together by those who would set them forth as the embodiment of the teachings of Jesus. And so, while so-called Christianity does contain more of the Master's gospel than any other religion, it does also contain much that Jesus did not teach. Aside from the incorporation of many teachings from the Persian mysteries and much of the Greek philosophy into early Christianity, two great mistakes were made:


The effort to connect the gospel teaching directly onto the Jewish theology, as illustrated by the Christian doctrines of the atonement—the teaching that Jesus was the sacrificed Son who would satisfy the Father's stern justice and appease the divine wrath. These teachings originated in a praiseworthy effort to make the gospel of the kingdom more acceptable to disbelieving Jews. Though these efforts failed as far as winning the Jews was concerned, they did not fail to confuse and alienate many honest souls in all subsequent generations.

The second great blunder of the Master's early followers, and one which all subsequent generations have persisted in perpetuating, was to organize the Christian teaching so completely about the person of Jesus. This overemphasis of the personality of Jesus in the theology of Christianity has worked to obscure his teachings, and all of this has made it increasingly difficult for Jews, Mohammedans, Hindus, and other Eastern religionists to accept the teachings of Jesus. We would not belittle the place of the person of Jesus in a religion which might bear his name, but we would not permit such consideration to eclipse his inspired life or to supplant his saving message: the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man.

The teachers of the religion of Jesus should approach other religions with the recognition of the truths which are held in common (many of which come directly or indirectly from Jesus' message) while they refrain from placing so much emphasis on the differences." UB



Caino

ThePresbyteers
August 12th, 2010, 07:54 AM
No Hell, just life or death, life eternal or extinction of being.

Caino
Even the author of "Conversations with God" said Hitler is in heaven. I had to read on. I guess everyone is going to heaven, good or bad but what happens after judgment day? Is there a split or a division of certain groups?

ThePresbyteers
August 12th, 2010, 07:56 AM
Even the Taoist state there's no hell or Heaven of some sort:
" The perfect Dao is without difficulty, save that it avoids picking and choosing. Only when you stop liking and disliking will all be clearly understood. A split hair's difference, and heaven and earth are set apart! If you want to get the plain truth, be not concerned with right and wrong. The conflict between right and wrong is the sickness of the mind."

ThePresbyteers
August 12th, 2010, 07:58 AM
How does Urantia fit in the Gnostics philosophies?

One Truth
August 12th, 2010, 10:09 AM
OneTruth
I am not angry at a book. I am simply pointing out that it is immoral to steal work without due credit. You claiming it is all down to your Imaginary Friends is a joke. Would you say it with a straight face? Is your delusion that strong? I’m not sure if I have read the whole book yet. I wouldn’t be surprised if I have. The problem I have is staying awake while reading it.

Stuart

Stuart, your anger is so deep you cannot recognize it for what it is. Your animosity (which means: ill will or resentment tending toward active hostility : an antagonistic attitude) is quite obvious in your statements and arguments.

I have not read your profile, but I am interested in knowing if you are one who believes the Bible to be the inherent, infallible Word of God? I once did.

When I started saying "there has to be more", I did not just drop my very strong and deeply ingrained belief about the Bible. It took years of seeking and allowing the Spirit of Truth to unveil certain truths that helped me to let go of that belief -- mostly because I WAS AFRAID TO.

No one is asking you or anyone to let go of your convictions, but you must allow the Spirit of Truth to open your heart and mind to truths that may not be found in the Bible; truths that may be found in other writings, such as The Urantia Book.

I find it sad when I find a forum (any forum) that is trying to rip this Book apart and trying to make it "of the devil", "evil", "from the pits of hell" and other fearful descriptions, especially by someone who has never read it, because there is so much wonderful truth, beauty and goodness in its pages that I (and thousands of others) can hardly put it down, much like when I first read the Bible and couldn't get enough, couldn't lay it down. The difference is, I don't have to approach someone with the fear of going to hell if they don't believe certain doctrines of the Bible, when I talk with someone about The Urantia Book. I don't have to feel a "sick" feeling of "losing a soul" if I can't convince them of the truth found in this Book. Christians have so much right, but are so unconscious, so deep in fearful bondage, that they cannot see it. Once they see it, they always say "Oh my God, how could I have been so narrow-minded?"

My question to you is: Why would you want to serve, worship, be loyal to a God who would torment you forever if you did not confess that Jesus is "Lord"?

Aimiel
August 12th, 2010, 10:35 AM
Stuart, your anger is so deep you cannot recognize it for what it is. Your animosity is quite obvious in your statements and arguments.That's OK, his anger is almost as evident as your self-righteousness.
I have not read your profile, but I am interested in knowing if you are one who believes the Bible to be the inherent, infallible Word of God? I once did. I doubt it. If you believed, you'd still know that The Truth is greater than lies.
When I started saying "there has to be more", I did not just drop my very strong and deeply ingrained belief about the Bible. It took years of seeking and allowing the Spirit of Truth to unveil certain truths that helped me to let go of that belief -- mostly because I WAS AFRAID TO.The Spirit of Truth is nowhere near you.
No one is asking you or anyone to let go of your convictions, but you must allow the Spirit of Truth to open your heart and mind to truths that may not be found in the Bible; truths that may be found in other writings, such as The Urantia Book.God does NOT use demonic trances to dictate His Word. It's how the Koran was written as well as the Urantia nonsense.
I find it sad when I find a forum (any forum) that is trying to rip this Book apart and trying to make it "of the devil", "evil", "from the pits of hell" and other fearful descriptions, especially by someone who has never read it, because there is so much wonderful truth, beauty and goodness in its pages that I (and thousands of others) can hardly put it down, much like when I first read the Bible and couldn't get enough, couldn't lay it down. That compulsion itself is from the same place as the book: hell.
The difference is, I don't have to approach someone with the fear of going to hell if they don't believe certain doctrines of the Bible, when I talk with someone about The Urantia Book. Pretending something is truth doesn't make it true.
I don't have to feel a "sick" feeling of "losing a soul" if I can't convince them of the truth found in this Book. Of course not: your conscience has been seared with a hot iron. That's why you can still call yourself 'Christian' and yet fight against Christ every day.
Christians have so much right, but are so unconscious, so deep in fearful bondage, that they cannot see it. Once they see it, they always say "Oh my God, how could I have been so narrow-minded?"Not only do some of us have 'so much right' but most of us are also conscious of wolves such as yourself, trying to sneak in wearing sheepskins. :chuckle:
My question to you is: Why would you want to serve, worship, be loyal to a God who would torment you forever if you did not confess that Jesus is "Lord"? Who said that? Is that what you were taught? It isn't God that sends anyone to hell, but the sins that the sinner has committed. Only those washed in Jesus' Blood can be clean. Look down. It's what you're trampling upon.

freelight
August 12th, 2010, 12:12 PM
How does Urantia fit in the Gnostics philosophies?

Its actually more aligned to classical/traditional theology, but more of a pure spiritualist orientation, with a greater cosmic perspective, since its cosmology is expanded by celestial personalities having a bigger picture of 'life evolution', and the upward evolutionary path of ascending mortals in the Father's Plan.

It is not 'Gnostic' per se as in traditional gnostic teaching(1-3rd centuries), but is 'spiritualist', holding the continued guidance and fellowship of the Spirit in its various ministry-functions and personalities that work in liaison with the Infinite Spirit. I would catagorize devotees of its philosophy as 'cosmic spiritualists' heralding the 'Fatherhood of God and brotherhood of man', the essence of Jesus gospel, shared amply in its Part 4 (http://urantiabook.org/newbook/index.html). You can judge the teachings of Jesus in this record from the transcripts yourself. ;)

Like anything, if interested educate yourself, read it yourself, from the beginning, Foreward, Part 1,...get the basics of the cosmology down,...see if any parts 'inbetween' interest you, and move on to Part 4 on Jesus life and teachings. However, familiarizing yourself with the entire tome is best, but getting the basics down is essential to understand the universal vision of an unending, ever-expanding, progressing universe and eternal future for all, who actively choose to co-operate and do the will of the Father (the divine motive, the inspiring impulse and momentum of life itself). Its yours for the choosing!

Freedom of choice for individual souls is honored by divine Providence in so far as its been given its sphere of sovereignty (however limited to the individual)...to choose life or death(extinction). Eternal survival and potential is latent in all souls....given equal opportunity, - God is no respector of persons, but loves each unique individual(personality) and provides all to support and ensure their fulfillment and joy, if they so choose. (but we wont get too deep into the 'free will' issue right now, but to say this theology holds individuals have the power to choose life or death, of which the latter is 'final', the disintegration of that individual soul-unit(personality-potential), a forfeiture of survival. However nothing of value is lost of memory, experience, meanings and values translated within that life-stream, for all is integrated back into 'God', and the surviving Thought-Adjuster, and continues in the over-all evolving experience of 'God the Supreme' who encompasses the totality of all space/time evolution of the expanding universe. - the Papers go far more into this.)

It could be said to be 'gnostic' in nature in general as valuing the 'knowledge' of 'God' within the soul and following the leadership of the 'divine pilot-light' within. This is that actual fragment of 'God' that indwells the human mind of normal mind capacity, and stays with the individual as long as they continue their life journey and destiny, ultimately fusing with that soul for an eternal partnership into infinity!
Knowledge carries us forward, for such is essential,.....God is LIGHT.




pj

Caino
August 12th, 2010, 12:18 PM
Even the author of "Conversations with God" said Hitler is in heaven. I had to read on. I guess everyone is going to heaven, good or bad but what happens after judgment day? Is there a split or a division of certain groups?

Hi The Presbyteers,

I'm a card carrying Presbyterian btw.

The UB teaches that once a person totally, completely and without question rejects salvation then there simply is no place for them to go in an increasingly spiritual universe. Any "good" that they were becomes a component part of the self realization of God the Supreme Being, "like a drop of water falling back into the ocean". Their personality or identity is obliterated, they are taken off the universe roles, "it is as if they never existed".

Lucifer and his cohorts that did not accept redemption will be executed if they have not been already. The UB teaches that Lucifer and his assistant Satan were interned on a detention world at the time of Christ on earth. Their place will be found no more.

"Now, mistake not, my Father will ever respond to the faintest flicker of faith. He takes note of the physical and superstitious emotions of the primitive man. And with those honest but fearful souls whose faith is so weak that it amounts to little more than an intellectual conformity to a passive attitude of assent to religions of authority, the Father is ever alert to honor and foster even all such feeble attempts to reach out for him. But you who have been called out of darkness into the light are expected to believe with a whole heart; your faith shall dominate the combined attitudes of body, mind, and spirit." Jesus of the UB


Caino


THE PHENOMENON OF DEATH

112:3.1 Urantians generally recognize only one kind of death, the physical cessation of life energies; but concerning personality survival there are really three kinds:


112:3.2 1. Spiritual (soul) death. If and when mortal man has finally rejected survival, when he has been pronounced spiritually insolvent, morontially bankrupt, in the conjoint opinion of the Adjuster and the surviving seraphim, when such co-ordinate advice has been recorded on Uversa, and after the Censors and their reflective associates have verified these findings, thereupon do the rulers of Orvonton order the immediate release of the indwelling Monitor. But this release of the Adjuster in no way affects the duties of the personal or group seraphim concerned with that Adjuster-abandoned individual. This kind of death is final in its significance irrespective of the temporary continuation of the living energies of the physical and mind mechanisms. From the cosmic standpoint the mortal is already dead; the continuing life merely indicates the persistence of the material momentum of cosmic energies.

112:3.3 2. Intellectual (mind) death. When the vital circuits of higher adjutant ministry are disrupted through the aberrations of intellect or because of the partial destruction of the mechanism of the brain, and if these conditions pass a certain critical point of irreparability, the indwelling Adjuster is immediately released to depart for Divinington. On the universe records a mortal personality is considered to have met with death whenever the essential mind circuits of human will-action have been destroyed. And again, this is death, irrespective of the continuing function of the living mechanism of the physical body. The body minus the volitional mind is no longer human, but according to the prior choosing of the human will, the soul of such an individual may survive.

112:3.4 3. Physical (body and mind) death. When death overtakes a human being, the Adjuster remains in the citadel of the mind until it ceases to function as an intelligent mechanism, about the time that the measurable brain energies cease their rhythmic vital pulsations. Following this dissolution the Adjuster takes leave of the vanishing mind, just as unceremoniously as entry was made years before, and proceeds to Divinington by way of Uversa.

112:3.5 After death the material body returns to the elemental world from which it was derived, but two nonmaterial factors of surviving personality persist: The pre-existent Thought Adjuster, with the memory transcription of the mortal career, proceeds to Divinington; and there also remains, in the custody of the destiny guardian, the immortal morontia soul of the deceased human. These phases and forms of soul, these once kinetic but now static formulas of identity, are essential to repersonalization on the morontia worlds; and it is the reunion of the Adjuster and the soul that reassembles the surviving personality, that reconsciousizes you at the time of the morontia awakening.

112:3.6 For those who do not have personal seraphic guardians, the group custodians faithfully and efficiently perform the same service of identity safekeeping and personality resurrection. The seraphim are indispensable to the reassembly of personality.

112:3.7 Upon death the Thought Adjuster temporarily loses personality, but not identity; the human subject temporarily loses identity, but not personality; on the mansion worlds both reunite in eternal manifestation. Never does a departed Thought Adjuster return to earth as the being of former indwelling; never is personality manifested without the human will; and never does a dis-Adjustered human being after death manifest active identity or in any manner establish communication with the living beings of earth. Such dis-Adjustered souls are wholly and absolutely unconscious during the long or short sleep of death. There can be no exhibition of any sort of personality or ability to engage in communications with other personalities until after completion of survival. Those who go to the mansion worlds are not permitted to send messages back to their loved ones. It is the policy throughout the universes to forbid such communication during the period of a current dispensation." UB

One Truth
August 12th, 2010, 03:33 PM
140:4.4 "You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and be led to glorify your Father who is in heaven."

140:4.5 While light dispels darkness, it can also be so "blinding" as to confuse and frustrate. We are admonished to let our light so shine that our fellows will be guided into new and godly paths of enhanced living. Our light should so shine as not to attract attention to self. Even one's vocation can be utilized as an effective "reflector" for the dissemination of this light of life.

140:4.6 Strong characters are not derived from not doing wrong but rather from actually doing right. Unselfishness is the badge of human greatness. The highest levels of self-realization are attained by worship and service. The happy and effective person is motivated, not by fear of wrongdoing, but by love of right doing.

140:4.7 "By their fruits you shall know them." Personality is basically changeless; that which changes -- grows -- is the moral character. The major error of modern religions is negativism. The tree which bears no fruit is "hewn down and cast into the fire." Moral worth cannot be derived from mere repression -- obeying the injunction "Thou shalt not." Fear and shame are unworthy motivations for religious living. Religion is valid only when it reveals the fatherhood of God and enhances the brotherhood of men.
Aimiel said:

Who said that? Is that what you were taught? It isn't God that sends anyone to hell, but the sins that the sinner has committed. Only those washed in Jesus' Blood can be clean. Look down. It's what you're trampling upon.


Luke 12:3 Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.
4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

This is not speaking of "sin". Besides, if, according to the Bible, Jesus "took away the sin of the world", the whole world, then it cannot be "sin" that casts you into hell. But I will not "argue" the concept of being "cast into hell" anymore than this: Although, Jesus may have "shed His blood" (given his life) for my salvation, but it was certainly not to appease an angry God. This belief came from the Mithraic religion:


98:5.3 The Mithraic cult portrayed a militant god taking origin in a great rock, engaging in valiant exploits, and causing water to gush forth from a rock struck with his arrows. There was a flood from which one man escaped in a specially built boat and a last supper which Mithras celebrated with the sun-god before he ascended into the heavens. This sun-god, or Sol Invictus, was a degeneration of the Ahura-Mazda deity concept of Zoroastrianism. Mithras was conceived as the surviving champion of the sun-god in his struggle with the god of darkness. And in recognition of his slaying the mythical sacred bull, Mithras was made immortal, being exalted to the station of intercessor for the human race among the gods on high.

98:5.4 The adherents of this cult worshiped in caves and other secret places, chanting hymns, mumbling magic, eating the flesh of the sacrificial animals, and drinking the blood. Three times a day they worshiped, with special weekly ceremonials on the day of the sun-god and with the most elaborate observance of all on the annual festival of Mithras, December twenty-fifth. It was believed that the partaking of the sacrament ensured eternal life, the immediate passing, after death, to the bosom of Mithras, there to tarry in bliss until the judgment day. On the judgment day the Mithraic keys of heaven would unlock the gates of Paradise for the reception of the faithful; whereupon all the unbaptized of the living and the dead would be annihilated upon the return of Mithras to earth. It was taught that, when a man died, he went before Mithras for judgment, and that at the end of the world Mithras would summon all the dead from their graves to face the last judgment. The wicked would be destroyed by fire, and the righteous would reign with Mithras forever.
Sound familiar? This is not The Urantia Book's revelation. Read Wikipedia or any other reference material concerning these doctrines and where they originated, many long before Jesus arrived and long before Christianity was ever formed.

I used to say: yeah, but those were just "shadows" of the "real thing". Unfortunately, that is not true. Having one's conscience "seared" means that they are no longer open to the Truth. If you are saying the only Truth is to be found in the Bible and the doctrines of man throughout Christianity, then I guess my "conscience has been seared". But, since the Bible does not contain ALL Truth, I am certain, again, that my Father, which is your Father as well, will not give me a rock when I have asked for bread.




The Spirit of Truth is nowhere near you.


Then I would be the only being on the face of the planet to be in such a position as since the Day of Pentecost the Spirit of Truth was poured out upon ALL flesh and still remains this day.



God does NOT use demonic trances to dictate His Word.


Now on that we would agree. I would like to know what the process was for the Old Testament Prophets to have received the Word of God? How did they receive those prophecies?

Aimiel, I would adjure you to read The Urantia Book in its entirety before you continue to belittle it or call it a bunch of lies. Give the Spirit of Truth a chance to reveal something "new" to you. Be open. When you close your mind you only make it more difficult to move forward spiritually.

Namaste

Caino
August 13th, 2010, 06:26 AM
Hi One Truth, Its nice to have you on board, I'm enjoying your excellent input. Keep it up. :wave:

Caino

Caino
August 13th, 2010, 06:40 AM
The Urantia Book

Paper 11

THE ETERNAL ISLE OF PARADISE


"God dwells, has dwelt, and everlastingly will dwell in this same central and eternal abode. We have always found him there and always will. The Universal Father is cosmically focalized, spiritually personalized, and geographically resident at this center of the universe of universes".

http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1256


Caino

Stuu
August 13th, 2010, 07:33 AM
One Truth (although not the one you used to have, presumably: this is your second Truth now)


Stuart, your anger is so deep you cannot recognize it for what it is. Your animosity (which means: ill will or resentment tending toward active hostility : an antagonistic attitude) is quite obvious in your statements and arguments.
Thank you for your pop-psychological analysis of me, which is only true about the animosity part. It is animosity to those who tell lies. Do you think that is unreasonable?


I have not read your profile, but I am interested in knowing if you are one who believes the Bible to be the inherent, infallible Word of God? I once did.
The Judeo-christian scriptures are historical fiction.


When I started saying "there has to be more", I did not just drop my very strong and deeply ingrained belief about the Bible. It took years of seeking and allowing the Spirit of Truth to unveil certain truths that helped me to let go of that belief -- mostly because I WAS AFRAID TO.
So then you listened to a different set of voices in your head.


No one is asking you or anyone to let go of your convictions, but you must allow the Spirit of Truth to open your heart and mind to truths that may not be found in the Bible; truths that may be found in other writings, such as The Urantia Book.
You must ask the Roman god Jupiter to reveal His truth to you. Open your heart to him.


I find it sad when I find a forum (any forum) that is trying to rip this Book apart and trying to make it "of the devil", "evil", "from the pits of hell" and other fearful descriptions,
I know, silly isn’t it. All I think is that it is plagiarism of the basest kind.


especially by someone who has never read it,
Yes. Now I reflect on it, I remember sitting down to read it about three years ago. I skim-read most of it, the only challenge in which is getting through it while staying awake, as I recall.


because there is so much wonderful truth, beauty and goodness in its pages that I (and thousands of others) can hardly put it down,
It is make believe fantasy that mocks hard-working geniuses by stealing their ideas without credit. A proportion of the science is wrong, that which it contains but has been disproved since 1955. It is a nonsense to put science into aspic, and worse to do that and try and defend the nonsense as correct on some absurd technicality, like the ionosphere thing.


much like when I first read the Bible and couldn't get enough, couldn't lay it down.
That explains your admiration for this pile of rot then.


The difference is, I don't have to approach someone with the fear of going to hell if they don't believe certain doctrines of the Bible,
You never did have to do that. It was only ever in your head.


when I talk with someone about The Urantia Book. I don't have to feel a "sick" feeling of "losing a soul" if I can't convince them of the truth found in this Book.
What you should feel sick to your stomach about is the fact that it rips off the people who have made such a positive difference to the way you live your life, in a practical sense every day.


Christians have so much right, but are so unconscious, so deep in fearful bondage, that they cannot see it. Once they see it, they always say "Oh my God, how could I have been so narrow-minded?"
What do they have right, do you think? What is special about them?


My question to you is: Why would you want to serve, worship, be loyal to a God who would torment you forever if you did not confess that Jesus is "Lord"?
A very good question. Why worship such a monster?

Come to think of it, why worship any Imaginary Friend?

Stuart