Does Jay have time for God?

Nathon Detroit

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Jay, the title of this thread is a bit silly please don't be offended.

Jay has asserted (in another thread) that God must be outside of time.

I would like Jay to answer these two questions....

1. Is knowing the future (because He saw it) the only possible way God could predict the future?

2. Does all prophecy in the Bible come to pass as prophesied?
 

Jay Santos

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Knight said:
Jay, the title of this thread is a bit silly please don't be offended.

Jay has asserted (in another thread) that God must be outside of time.

I would like Jay to answer these two questions....

1. Is knowing the future (because He saw it) the only possible way God could predict the future?

2. Does all prophecy in the Bible come to pass as prophesied?

1. I suppose not, I could look at a cracked serpentine belt in the hood of my car and give a pretty good guess as to if and when it will break. I could even estimate where abouts on a road trip my car would stall. In that sense, yes if God can see things coming together he could predict the future instead of 'see' it. But, some prophesy seems to be a little more than just foresight. The book of Revelation appeard to John as a vision. But I don't know.

2. That's a GREAT question. I don't really know, because usually if somthing doesn't come to pass, it's not considered prophesy or it hasn't happend yet. It was my understanding that EVERY messianic prophesy has been fufilled by Jesus Christ and is recorded in the New Testament. Also Jesus made some prophesies about the temple that were not fufilled in the New Testament, but in the history books. I don't know of anything that He said would happen that didn't. Do you have some examples?
 

Nathon Detroit

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Jay Santos said:
1. I suppose not, I could look at a cracked serpentine belt in the hood of my car and give a pretty good guess as to if and when it will break. I could even estimate where abouts on a road trip my car would stall. In that sense, yes if God can see things coming together he could predict the future instead of 'see' it. But, some prophesy seems to be a little more than just foresight. The book of Revelation appeard to John as a vision. But I don't know.
Good points but your leaving out a very important way to predict future events.

God can (and does) bring things to pass!

God could say.... The Tribulation will start tomorrow and who could stop Him? He wouldn't need to be outside of time to bring something to pass.

2. That's a GREAT question. I don't really know, because usually if somthing doesn't come to pass, it's not considered prophesy or it hasn't happend yet. It was my understanding that EVERY messianic prophesy has been fufilled by Jesus Christ and is recorded in the New Testament. Also Jesus made some prophesies about the temple that were not fufilled in the New Testament, but in the history books. I don't know of anything that He said would happen that didn't. Do you have some examples?
All sorts of prophecy in the Bible does not come to pass as prophesied or does not come to pass at all!

Which of course destroys entirely the notion that God is outside of time.

Is it because God was wrong??? NO! It's because God is interacting with us IN TIME. God tells us that something is going to happen because we have been good but then He has the right to retract His offer when we disobey. God changes to interact with freewill beings.

God explains this concept extremely clear....

Jeremiah 18:7 “The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 “if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 “And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 “if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.

That passage in Jeremiah is a key to grasping the entire story of the Bible!

God is a living God, a God that can react and change depending on the obedience or disobedience of His creation.

God told Nineveh that in 40 days they would be destroyed....

Jonah 3:1 Now the word of the LORD came to Jonah the second time, saying, 2 “Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and preach to it the message that I tell you.” 3 So Jonah arose and went to Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceedingly great city, a three-day journey in extent. 4 And Jonah began to enter the city on the first day’s walk. Then he cried out and said, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!”

A clear prophetic statement from God! 40 days and Nineveh will be overthrown.

How will Nineveh react???

Jonah 3:5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest to the least of them. 6 Then word came to the king of Nineveh; and he arose from his throne and laid aside his robe, covered himself with sackcloth and sat in ashes. 7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published throughout Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; do not let them eat, or drink water. 8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to God; yes, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands. 9 Who can tell if God will turn and relent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish?​

Nineveh repented! What will happen next? Will God destroy Nineveh to maintain the accuracy of His prophecy?

Jonah 3:10 Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it.

God relented of the disaster and voided out the prophecy based on man's repentance. What an awesome God we have!

Also notice the phrase....."Then God saw their works..." Then God saw their works, He saw their works IN TIME, after they repented and before He relented. God is a rational God that is in time, in the ever passing moment.
 
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Jay Santos

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Knight said:
Good points but your leaving out a very important way to predict future events.

God can (and does) bring things to pass!

God could say.... The Tribulation will start tomorrow and who could stop Him? He wouldn't need to be outside of time to bring something to pass.

All sorts of prophecy in the Bible does not come to pass as prophesied or does not come to pass at all!

Which of course destroys entirely the notion that God is outside of time.

Is it because God was wrong??? NO! It's because God is interacting with us IN TIME. God tells us that something is going to happen because we have been good but then He has the right to retract His offer when we disobey. God changes to interact with freewill beings.

God explains this concept extremely clear....

Jeremiah 18:7 “The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 “if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 “And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 “if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.

That passage in Jeremiah is a key to grasping the entire story of the Bible!

God is a living God, a God that can react and change depending on the obedience or disobedience of His creation.

God told Nineveh that in 40 days they would be destroyed....

Jonah 3:1 Now the word of the LORD came to Jonah the second time, saying, 2 “Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and preach to it the message that I tell you.” 3 So Jonah arose and went to Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceedingly great city, a three-day journey in extent. 4 And Jonah began to enter the city on the first day’s walk. Then he cried out and said, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!”

A clear prophetic statement from God! 40 days and Nineveh will be overthrown.

How will Nineveh react???

Jonah 3:5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest to the least of them. 6 Then word came to the king of Nineveh; and he arose from his throne and laid aside his robe, covered himself with sackcloth and sat in ashes. 7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published throughout Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; do not let them eat, or drink water. 8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to God; yes, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands. 9 Who can tell if God will turn and relent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish?​

Nineveh repented! What will happen next? Will God destroy Nineveh to maintain the accuracy of His prophecy?

Jonah 3:10 Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it.

God relented of the disaster and voided out the prophecy based on man's repentance. What an awesome God we have!

Also notice the phrase....."Then God saw their works..." Then God saw their works, He saw their works IN TIME, after they repented and before He relented. God is a rational God that is in time, in the ever passing moment.

Really good points, brother. I'll think about all that. :)
 
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