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xfrodobagginsx
March 3rd, 2010, 10:48 PM
PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ THIS. IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU COULD EVER DO AND IT ONLY TAKES A FEW MINUTES.

ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN?

There are some things that you should know:

1. Realize that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior:

Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Ro 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

It all began with the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. God created them perfect, there was no death or sorrow. God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed God and as a result, sin entered into the world. The pain, which this world sees, is the result of sin.

2. Because of our sins, we die both spiritually and physically, but God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross:

Ro 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Ro 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. for us."

Every person who has ever lived is a sinner and is not righteous because we do bad things. A sin is a crime against God, just as if you steal something at the store, it is punishable by going to jail. It's the same thing with sin. Lying, stealing, sex before marriage, pride, hatred, ect. are all sins. Hell is a prison for those who commit crimes against God. That’s because you must be perfect in order to get to heaven. No matter how well you live your life from then on, you have already sinned, which will be punished if you are not pardoned. If you commit a crime, and then live as a good citizen you still will go to jail for the crime you committed. Right? Just as the President can pardon a crime so you won't go to jail, Jesus can pardon your sins so that you do not go to hell, and can go to heaven when you die. You won’t have to pay for your own sins because Jesus already did that for you. But if you reject the pardon that He offers, you will have to pay for your own sins by going to hell.

3. If you will confess Jesus Christ is the Lord, place your Faith in Him and Believe in your heart that He died and rose again for your sins, you will be saved (from hell).

Eph 2:8,9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Ro 10:9,10 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.."

You cannot get to heaven by being a good person, going to church, baptism or any other way other than by turning to Jesus, believing in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for your sins and placing your Faith in Him. While these are good things to do, some people believe that they will get to heaven, but the bible says that there is only one way to heaven and that is through trusting in what Jesus Christ did on the cross for you in faith.

Will you do that today? If you will, you can be 100% sure that you will go to heaven when you die.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS AND ROSE FROM THE DEAD FOR YOUR SINS? ARE YOU WILLING TO PLACE YOUR FAITH IN HIM FOR SALVATION?

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

4. If you want to accept Jesus free gift of salvation, or if you have any doubts about whether or not you are going to heaven, you could place your faith in Jesus Christ for salvation by praying a simple prayer:

”Dear Lord Jesus I believe that You are the Lord and believe in my heart that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead for my sins. I repent and turn to You, placing my Faith in You as Lord of my life, Please save me and I thank You for it, in Jesus holy name, Amen.”

If you have placed your faith in Jesus Christ and meant it with all of your heart, you are now a child of God and will go to heaven. Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing church and follow in baptism.

Cruciform
March 4th, 2010, 12:00 AM
...4.If you are willing to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior please humble yourself before God and pray this prayer to Him from your heart:

"Dear LORD JESUS, I believe that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead for my sins. I ask you to come into my heart and forgive me for my sins, save me, take me to be with You when I die. I now receive You as my Lord and Savior. Thank You for saving me. In Jesus holy name, Amen."

If you prayed that prayer to God, and meant it with all of your heart, you are now a child of God and will go to heaven when you die.
Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing church and follow in baptism.

The first part of your post (which is basically a repitition of the Four Spiritual Laws tract, the so-called "Romans Road") was at least partially informative. Point #4, however, begs the following question:

Where does the New Testament teach that by reciting a prayer---even if you "meant it with all of your heart"---you thereby "become a child of God and will go to heaven when you die"?
Indeed, this seems to run counter to what the Bible actually says about people becoming Christians in the New Testament. (Consider, for example, Peter's answer when asked what one must do to be saved in Acts 2:37-41.)


Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Stuu
March 4th, 2010, 01:25 AM
Every person who has ever lived is a sinner .
Speak for yourself!

Stuart

Persephone66
March 4th, 2010, 02:04 AM
Hate to be the one to break it to you, but when you die, that's it. It's over. Nothing after.

So make the most of your time here.

Ktoyou
March 4th, 2010, 02:08 AM
Hate to be the one to break it to you, but when you die, that's it. It's over. Nothing after.

So make the most of your time here.

That is what is going to happen to Casey, but not me:angel:

chair
March 4th, 2010, 03:23 AM
So much concern with death!

How about a thread "HOW TO LIVE YOUR LIFE IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE"? That's a healthier approach.

If there is an afterlife, one would hope that living your life well is the best way to have a shot at a decent afterlife as well. Yes, I know that you can quote verses from your "New" testament that show otherwise, but you are either misinterpreting the verses, or your book is plain wrong.

freelight
March 4th, 2010, 03:42 AM
Hate to be the one to break it to you, but when you die, that's it. It's over. Nothing after.


How do you know for sure?

The Afterlife (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36063)



So make the most of your time here.

This truth and wisdom is for all 'time',...thru-out eternity, as long as 'you' exist as a conscious entity, here or elsewhere.




pj

Chandler
March 4th, 2010, 04:16 AM
ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN?

I am 100% sure that I would not go to heaven if I died today. Rather, I would look forward to spending eternity on earth.

Jesus said the meek will inherit the earth (Matthew 5:5) quoting Psalms 37:10-11. And Psalms 37:29 adds: "and will dwell therein forever."

Robert Pate
March 4th, 2010, 10:20 AM
ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN?

There are some things that you should know:

1. Realize that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior:

Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Ro 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

This all began with the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. God created them perfect, there was no death or sorrow. God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed God and as a result, sin entered into the world. The pain which this world sees is the result of sin.

2. Because of our sins, we die both spiritually and physically, but God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross for you:

Ro 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Ro 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. for us."

Every person who has ever lived is a sinner and is not righteous because we do bad things. A sin is a crime against God, just as if you steal something at the store, it is punishable by going to jail. It's the same thing with sin. Even if we lie one time, the punishment is hell, which is a prison for those who commit crimes against God. No matter how well you live your life from then on, you have already committed a sin which will be punished if you are not pardoned. If you commit a crime, and then live as a good citizen you still will go to jail for the crime you committed. Right? Just as the president can pardon a crime so you won't go to jail, Jesus can pardon your sins so that you do not go to hell, and can go to heaven when you die.

3. If you will confess to Jesus Christ that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior, accept Him as Lord and Savior and believe in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead you will be saved.

Joh 1:12 “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name”

Ro 10:9,10 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.."

You cannot get to heaven by being a good person, going to church, baptism or any other way other than by turning to Jesus and asking Him to forgive you for your sins and save you. While these are good things to do, some people believe that they will get to heaven if they do these things, but the bible says that there is only one way to heaven and that is through receiving what Jesus Christ did on the cross for you.

Will you do that today? If you will, you can be 100% sure that you will go to heaven when you die.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS AND ROSE FROM THE DEAD FOR YOUR SINS?

ARE YOU WILLING TO TURN TO JESUS CHRIST FOR SALVATION?

4. If you are willing to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior please humble yourself before God and pray this prayer to Him from your heart:

"Dear LORD JESUS, I believe that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead for my sins. I ask you to come into my heart and forgive me for my sins, save me, take me to be with You when I die. I now receive You as my Lord and Savior. Thank You for saving me. In Jesus holy name, Amen."

If you prayed that prayer to God, and meant it with all of your heart, you are now a child of God and will go to heaven when you die.
Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing church and follow in baptism.


Inviting Jesus into your heart is not Christian. It is Roman Catholicism.

freelight
March 4th, 2010, 02:04 PM
Inviting Jesus into your heart is not Christian. It is Roman Catholicism.


Actually its more of a modern day protestant evangelical 'convention'.



pj

xfrodobagginsx
January 5th, 2011, 06:17 PM
Inviting Jesus into your heart is not Christian. It is Roman Catholicism.

No, it's bible and I am certainly not a Catholic. Most Catholics believe that it's either through their church, good deeds or praying to mary, ect. from what they have told me. The bible says that it's only though faith in Jesus Christ.

Cruciform
January 5th, 2011, 06:24 PM
Inviting Jesus into your heart is not Christian. It is Roman Catholicism.
"po-tay-to"/"po-tah-to"... :yawn:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Cruciform
January 5th, 2011, 06:27 PM
...Most Catholics believe that it's either through their church, good deeds or praying to mary, ect. from what they have told me.
Completely incorrect. :nono:


The bible says that it's only though faith in Jesus Christ.
Again, completely incorrect:

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/a126.htm



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Wretchedman
January 5th, 2011, 07:11 PM
I agree with some of what you are saying, but there are some holes in your statement. first off you never mention repentance... which is a key part in salvation. repenting means to ask for forgiveness and also turning from your sins becoming a new creation in Christ. All the things you did before you wont want to do them anymore.. second "accept Jesus" this phase has been misused a lot and you either need to explain it in a clear way or don't use it because it will confuse people.... Third as Cruciform rightly stated saying some "general prayer" is not Biblical and you should not ask people to recite one...

Ktoyou
January 5th, 2011, 07:24 PM
xfrodobagginsx,
I for one, do not believe you are 100% sure of what you believe, nor are you able to counsel others, most who you do not know.

Stuu
January 5th, 2011, 10:16 PM
Inviting Jesus into your heart is not Christian. It is Roman Catholicism.
Jesus invites himself in to search through your heart...


Revelation 2:23 ...all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.


...and your kidneys.

Stuart

Wretchedman
January 6th, 2011, 10:06 PM
Jesus invites himself in to search through your heart...


Revelation 2:23 ...all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.


...and your kidneys.

Stuart

You are right Jesus will come and dwell in our hearts if we repent and put our trust in Him.

But Robert is also right because we do not invite Him in to our hearts. We have to do what Jesus commands us to, then He of His own will dwells in our hearts. So there is no "invite" on our part because we can do nothing for our own salvation Jesus does it all..

xfrodobagginsx
January 7th, 2011, 11:16 AM
You are right Jesus will come and dwell in our hearts if we repent and put our trust in Him.

But Robert is also right because we do not invite Him in to our hearts. We have to do what Jesus commands us to, then He of His own will dwells in our hearts. So there is no "invite" on our part because we can do nothing for our own salvation Jesus does it all..

Yes if we ask Him into our heart we will be saved. The prayer does this:


Ro 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
.......For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."


Not everyone will be saved:

Joh 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Sheila B
January 7th, 2011, 11:26 AM
Inviting Jesus into your heart is not Christian. It is Roman Catholicism.

Oh my! TOL never ceases to amaze me. :chuckle:

freelight
January 7th, 2011, 12:02 PM
Oh my! TOL never ceases to amaze me. :chuckle:

Comical eh?...that a protestant 'custom' and 'improvization' would be attributed to the Mother Church. -the audacity! :crackup:

In general there is nothing inherently wrong or evil with asking sweet Jesus into your heart! By all means any sincere gesture and surrender to 'God' is acceptable to him, with a pure motive and right intent. God looks at the heart, the disposition of spirit. Whether He comes in of his own accord or you have anything to do with it, your 'co-operation' is always a part of the process :)



pj

Sheila B
January 7th, 2011, 02:20 PM
Comical eh?...that a protestant 'custom' and 'improvization' would be attributed to the Mother Church. -the audacity! :crackup:

:chuckle: ain't it grand?



In general there is nothing inherently wrong or evil with asking sweet Jesus into your heart! By all means any sincere gesture and surrender to 'God' is acceptable to him, with a pure motive and right intent. God looks at the heart, the disposition of spirit. Whether He comes in of his own accord or you have anything to do with it, your 'co-operation' is always a part of the process :)



pj
right

but it was a good laugh anyway!

freelight
January 7th, 2011, 02:36 PM
~*~*~

I find the thread-title a bit funny as well, as when one 'dies' they find themselves in that locality that their very soul-condition determines at that moment in time, so that in the 'transition' there is no getting anywhere but where you already are - now from that point in time onwards...you can get a handle on where you're at, and from there make 'psychic adjustments' about what you can do to change or re-orient your situation, direction, destiny, etc.




pj

Glenda
January 7th, 2011, 04:19 PM
Comical eh?...that a protestant 'custom' and 'improvization' would be attributed to the Mother Church. -the audacity! :crackup:

In general there is nothing inherently wrong or evil with asking sweet Jesus into your heart! By all means any sincere gesture and surrender to 'God' is acceptable to him, with a pure motive and right intent. God looks at the heart, the disposition of spirit. Whether He comes in of his own accord or you have anything to do with it, your 'co-operation' is always a part of the process :)



pj

Yep :) No forced entry :)
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

freelight
January 7th, 2011, 04:33 PM
Yep :) No forced entry :)
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Pretty clear eh. Its in the "hearing", and then the response-ability to call on 'God' in whose Presence is salvation.


pj

Wretchedman
January 7th, 2011, 11:18 PM
Yes if we ask Him into our heart we will be saved. The prayer does this:


Ro 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
.......For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."


Not everyone will be saved:

Joh 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."


We don't "ask Him into our heart" the verse you quote says nothing of the sort.. The verse says "confess" He is lord meaning He is already the lord you just have to recognize it. Then believe in your heart meaning you have to trust Him completely.. Confession does not mean prayer and it especially doesn't mean to say some general prayer for everyone.. All you have to do is recognize you are a sinner in need of a savior and repent meaning to "confess" and apologizes for your sins then turn from them and put your trust in Jesus.

If a prayer breaks out while your being saved then so be it. But I don't see anywhere in the Bible were it says to prayer for salvation. Actually if an unregenerate prays God wont hear it anyway.. John 9:31, Proverbs 28:9, Proverbs 1:27,28....

You can't pray for salvation you have to repent like Jesus said and put your trust in Him. Then you pray like no bodies business.. :)

xfrodobagginsx
January 14th, 2011, 09:45 PM
I will agree that you don't have to say that prayer to be saved, but you certainly can and will be saved if you pray that prayer to God from your heart and the prayer is biblical since it does cover everything that the bible requires for salvation.



Here is the prayer let's compare it with the scriptures:

"1)Dear LORD JESUS, I believe that YOU died on the Cross and Rose from the dead for my sins. 2)I ask you to come into my heart and forgive me for my sins, take me to heaven when I die. 3) I now receive You as my Lord and Savior. Thank You for saving me. In Jesus holy name, Amen."

Let's do check the scriptures.


1) Ro 10:9 Because if you confess the Lord Jesus...

The prayer does this

2) and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead,

The prayer does this if from the heart

3) you shall be saved.

The prayer does this

2) For with the heart one believes unto righteousness

If you say the prayer from your heart this will happen

and with the mouth one confesses unto salvation.

The prayer does this. You pray with your mouth.

Ro 10:13 For everyone, "whoever shall call on the name of the Lord will be saved."

The prayer does this so for you to say that it's not biblical is untrue. Praying for salvation is calling upon the name of the Lord.

xfrodobagginsx
January 17th, 2011, 09:56 PM
Please take the time to read this first post and pray that prayer at the bottom of it to God from your heart.

Stuu
January 18th, 2011, 12:32 AM
Please take the time to read this first post and pray that prayer at the bottom of it to God from your heart.
...or your kidneys.

Stuart

freelight
January 18th, 2011, 04:18 AM
...or your kidneys.

Stuart

Each organ of the body is analogous to a spiritual meaning/function or significance, after all,....the body is the temple of the Spirit.


pj

oatmeal
January 18th, 2011, 04:53 AM
ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN?

There are some things that you should know:

1. Realize that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior:

Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Ro 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

This all began with the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. God created them perfect, there was no death or sorrow. God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed God and as a result, sin entered into the world. The pain which this world sees is the result of sin.

2. Because of our sins, we die both spiritually and physically, but God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross for you:

Ro 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Ro 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. for us."

Every person who has ever lived is a sinner and is not righteous because we do bad things. A sin is a crime against God, just as if you steal something at the store, it is punishable by going to jail. It's the same thing with sin. Even if we lie one time, the punishment is hell, which is a prison for those who commit crimes against God. No matter how well you live your life from then on, you have already committed a sin which will be punished if you are not pardoned. If you commit a crime, and then live as a good citizen you still will go to jail for the crime you committed. Right? Just as the president can pardon a crime so you won't go to jail, Jesus can pardon your sins so that you do not go to hell, and can go to heaven when you die.

3. If you will confess to Jesus Christ that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior, accept Him as Lord and Savior and believe in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead you will be saved.

Joh 1:12 “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name”

Ro 10:9,10 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.."

You cannot get to heaven by being a good person, going to church, baptism or any other way other than by turning to Jesus and asking Him to forgive you for your sins and save you. While these are good things to do, some people believe that they will get to heaven if they do these things, but the bible says that there is only one way to heaven and that is through receiving what Jesus Christ did on the cross for you.

Will you do that today? If you will, you can be 100% sure that you will go to heaven when you die.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS AND ROSE FROM THE DEAD FOR YOUR SINS?

ARE YOU WILLING TO TURN TO JESUS CHRIST FOR SALVATION?

4. If you are willing to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior please humble yourself before God and pray this prayer to Him from your heart:

"Dear LORD JESUS, I believe that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead for my sins. I ask you to come into my heart and forgive me for my sins, save me, take me to be with You when I die. I now receive You as my Lord and Savior. Thank You for saving me. In Jesus holy name, Amen."

If you prayed that prayer to God, and meant it with all of your heart, you are now a child of God and will go to heaven when you die.
Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing church and follow in baptism.

Yes, I am sure of that.

I did Romans 10:9-10.

I confessed with my mouth the lord Jesus and believed in my heart that God raised him from the dead.

And I have proof of that.

oatmeal.

freelight
January 18th, 2011, 03:55 PM
Yes, I am sure of that.

I did Romans 10:9-10.

I confessed with my mouth the lord Jesus and believed in my heart that God raised him from the dead.

And I have proof of that.

oatmeal.

A 'confession' and 'faith' may be a 'start' on the spiritual path, but the 'proof' comes via 'personal experience'.....your own 'resurrection' and 'ascension'.


pj

Stuu
January 19th, 2011, 05:07 AM
Each organ of the body is analogous to a spiritual meaning/function or significance, after all,....the body is the temple of the Spirit.


pj
Why does it say heart and kidneys in Revelation then?

Stuart

Delmar
January 19th, 2011, 05:39 AM
The fact is if you passed from unbelief to belief, you passed from death to life.

Jesus did all the work! Anybody disagree with that?

freelight
January 19th, 2011, 07:02 AM
Why does it say heart and kidneys in Revelation then?

Stuart


20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. -Rev. 2:20-23

Various 'translations' use the word 'mind' or 'reins' instead of 'kidney'...relating thoughts, desires, intentions, emotions of the soul.

"Reins", "Heart", "Mind" or "Emotions" (http://www.sovereignword.org/index.php/will-kinneys-king-james-bible-defense-articles/285-reins-heart-mind-or-emotions)?

Spiritual meaning of kidneys (http://www.biblemeanings.info/Words/Body/Kidney.htm)

Kidney correspondence (http://www.scienceofcorrespondences.com/kidneys.htm)


pj

xfrodobagginsx
January 26th, 2011, 11:12 PM
The fact is if you passed from unbelief to belief, you passed from death to life.

Jesus did all the work! Anybody disagree with that?

I agree. Jesus is the only way! Please accept Him and His free gift of eternal life. It doesn't cost anything.

xfrodobagginsx
February 23rd, 2011, 10:50 AM
You can have a GENUINE relationship with God. He will NEVER leave you nor forsake you. Please accept His offer of Salavation. You will never regret it.

xfrodobagginsx
February 28th, 2011, 09:56 PM
Jesus loves you all.

Nick Hallandale
February 28th, 2011, 10:19 PM
ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN?

There are some things that you should know:

1. Realize that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior:

Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

2. Because of our sins, we die both spiritually and physically, but God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross for you:

Ro 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Ro 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. for us."


Let me get this straight.
All men are sinners.
All men are condemned to death by God because they are sinners.
The wages of sin is death.
Jesus ransomed mankind from the death penalty of Divine Justice by dying for our sins.

How does this next Scripture fit into your theology?
Leviticus 27:29
No one doomed to death under the claim of divine justice, who is to be completely destroyed from among men, shall be ransomed from suffering the death penalty; he shall surely be put to death.

In light of this Scripture how could Jesus die for your sins? Remember Scripture cannot be broken.

xfrodobagginsx
March 22nd, 2011, 12:17 AM
You need to remember that we are no longer under the law. Jesus fulfilled the law, breaking the curse of the law. Because Jesus died and rose from the dead, we are under grace, therefore, we aren't under the law. Secondly, this verse is referring to physical death, not spiritual death, so the premise is wrong in the first place. Jesus came to lift the curse of Spiritual death. The curse of physical death won't be lifted until after the Judgment. By accepting Jesus you are accepting the pardon for your crimes against God (sins). Legally, you won't have to go to hell (prison) for your crimes. I'm not trying to judge you or anyone else. I am also a sinner and worthy of hell. However, I have accepted the pardon that Jesus offers all men, therefore, I won't have to pay the penalty of death (separation).

Death=Separation

Physical death-Separation from the body
Spiritual death-Separation from God

xfrodobagginsx
March 23rd, 2011, 10:46 PM
The fact is if you passed from unbelief to belief, you passed from death to life.

Jesus did all the work! Anybody disagree with that?

Nope! The prayer merely sums up what the bible says regarding salvation. I've never said that praying "a set prayer" was a requirement for salvation, but it is a good way to accept God's gift of salvation.

xfrodobagginsx
April 9th, 2011, 06:52 PM
Please take the time to read this first post and pray the prayer at the bottom of it to God from your heart if you haven't yet.

xfrodobagginsx
April 23rd, 2011, 08:38 PM
Tomorrow is Easter Sunday. Please attend a bible believing Church to celebrate the Resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.

xfrodobagginsx
April 26th, 2011, 09:42 PM
.....

jeremysdemo
April 27th, 2011, 05:58 AM
HOW TO GET TO HEAVEN

hmm...so it's all about what you can get out of it?...

so much for selfless worship....


keep shinin

jerm :cool:

xfrodobagginsx
April 29th, 2011, 10:10 PM
Jesus said:

Mr 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

You're response:

hmm...so it's all about what you can get out of it?...

so much for selfless worship....

You keep shinin' too good buddy boy o'l pal. :think:

jeremysdemo
April 30th, 2011, 06:22 AM
^^^good example^^^ it was all about what he could get out of it for the rich man.....:confused:

not sure that is an example of the type of motivation that I would want to follow :think:

keep shinin

jerm :cool:

patricius79
April 30th, 2011, 07:26 PM
You cannot get to heaven by being a good person, going to church, baptism or any other way other than by turning to Jesus and asking Him to forgive you for your sins and save you..
.

aren't we saved through being good through Jesus Christ?

xfrodobagginsx
May 7th, 2011, 09:32 AM
aren't we saved through being good through Jesus Christ?

No. Good deeds do not and cannot save you.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.

It says we are "created in Christ Jesus to good works" that means that Christians don't do good works so that they can be saved, Christians do good works because they are ALREADY saved.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


So then, how do we get saved?

By confessing to God that you are a sinner, that Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead, is the Literal Son of God and accept His gift of salvation, believing these things in your heart. You can do that by praying a simple prayer to God from your heart.

If you are willing to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior please humble yourself before God and pray this prayer to Him from your heart:

"Dear LORD JESUS, I believe that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead for my sins. I ask you to come into my heart and forgive me for my sins, save me, take me to be with You when I die. I now receive You as my Lord and Savior. Thank You for saving me. In Jesus holy name, Amen."

If you prayed that prayer to God, and meant it with all of your heart, you are now a child of God and will go to heaven when you die.

xfrodobagginsx
May 20th, 2011, 10:00 PM
.....

xfrodobagginsx
May 23rd, 2011, 08:37 PM
Ga 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

xfrodobagginsx
May 24th, 2011, 09:47 PM
Therefore, you cannot get to heaven by being a good person...

Gurucam
May 24th, 2011, 11:39 PM
ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN?

There are some things that you should know:

1. Realize that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior:

Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Ro 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

This all began with the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. God created them perfect, there was no death or sorrow. God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed God and as a result, sin entered into the world. The pain which this world sees is the result of sin.

2. Because of our sins, we die both spiritually and physically, but God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross for you:

Ro 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Ro 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. for us."

Every person who has ever lived is a sinner and is not righteous because we do bad things. A sin is a crime against God, just as if you steal something at the store, it is punishable by going to jail. It's the same thing with sin. Even if we lie one time, the punishment is hell, which is a prison for those who commit crimes against God. No matter how well you live your life from then on, you have already committed a sin which will be punished if you are not pardoned. If you commit a crime, and then live as a good citizen you still will go to jail for the crime you committed. Right? Just as the president can pardon a crime so you won't go to jail, Jesus can pardon your sins so that you do not go to hell, and can go to heaven when you die.

3. If you will confess to Jesus Christ that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior, accept Him as Lord and Savior and believe in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead you will be saved.

Joh 1:12 “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name”

Ro 10:9,10 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.."

You cannot get to heaven by being a good person, going to church, baptism or any other way other than by turning to Jesus and asking Him to forgive you for your sins and save you. While these are good things to do, some people believe that they will get to heaven if they do these things, but the bible says that there is only one way to heaven and that is through receiving what Jesus Christ did on the cross for you.

Will you do that today? If you will, you can be 100% sure that you will go to heaven when you die.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS AND ROSE FROM THE DEAD FOR YOUR SINS?

ARE YOU WILLING TO TURN TO JESUS CHRIST FOR SALVATION?

4. If you are willing to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior please humble yourself before God and pray this prayer to Him from your heart:

"Dear LORD JESUS, I believe that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead for my sins. I ask you to come into my heart and forgive me for my sins, save me, take me to be with You when I die. I now receive You as my Lord and Savior. Thank You for saving me. In Jesus holy name, Amen."

If you prayed that prayer to God, and meant it with all of your heart, you are now a child of God and will go to heaven when you die.
Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing church and follow in baptism.

Only children of God rise to be like angels in heaven when they die.

Children of God are led by the Spirit of Jesus which God sent into the hearts of those under the law.

Paul said, search your heart to know precisely what this Spirit has in mind for you to pray for, say and do and obey this unconditionally. You will become a child of God, i.e. one who is saved and delivered into heaven.

xfrodobagginsx
May 25th, 2011, 10:32 PM
Only children of God rise to be like angels in heaven when they die.

Children of God are led by the Spirit of Jesus which God sent into the hearts of those under the law.

Paul said, search your heart to know precisely what this Spirit has in mind for you to pray for, say and do and obey this unconditionally. You will become a child of God, i.e. one who is saved and delivered into heaven.


1) The children of God never become angels when they die.

2) Children of God are no longer under the law.

3) Paul said "If you will confess with your mouth, the Lord Jesus and will believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the mouth man believes unto righteousness and the mouth confession is made unto Salvation"

xfrodobagginsx
May 31st, 2011, 05:09 PM
Ro 1:16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

oatmeal
May 31st, 2011, 05:13 PM
ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN?

There are some things that you should know:

1. Realize that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior:

Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Ro 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

This all began with the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. God created them perfect, there was no death or sorrow. God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed God and as a result, sin entered into the world. The pain which this world sees is the result of sin.

2. Because of our sins, we die both spiritually and physically, but God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross for you:

Ro 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Ro 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. for us."

Every person who has ever lived is a sinner and is not righteous because we do bad things. A sin is a crime against God, just as if you steal something at the store, it is punishable by going to jail. It's the same thing with sin. Even if we lie one time, the punishment is hell, which is a prison for those who commit crimes against God. No matter how well you live your life from then on, you have already committed a sin which will be punished if you are not pardoned. If you commit a crime, and then live as a good citizen you still will go to jail for the crime you committed. Right? Just as the president can pardon a crime so you won't go to jail, Jesus can pardon your sins so that you do not go to hell, and can go to heaven when you die.

3. If you will confess to Jesus Christ that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior, accept Him as Lord and Savior and believe in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead you will be saved.

Joh 1:12 “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name”

Ro 10:9,10 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.."

You cannot get to heaven by being a good person, going to church, baptism or any other way other than by turning to Jesus and asking Him to forgive you for your sins and save you. While these are good things to do, some people believe that they will get to heaven if they do these things, but the bible says that there is only one way to heaven and that is through receiving what Jesus Christ did on the cross for you.

Will you do that today? If you will, you can be 100% sure that you will go to heaven when you die.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS AND ROSE FROM THE DEAD FOR YOUR SINS?

ARE YOU WILLING TO TURN TO JESUS CHRIST FOR SALVATION?

4. If you are willing to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior please humble yourself before God and pray this prayer to Him from your heart:

"Dear LORD JESUS, I believe that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead for my sins. I ask you to come into my heart and forgive me for my sins, save me, take me to be with You when I die. I now receive You as my Lord and Savior. Thank You for saving me. In Jesus holy name, Amen."

If you prayed that prayer to God, and meant it with all of your heart, you are now a child of God and will go to heaven when you die.
Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing church and follow in baptism.

X,

or they could Romans 10:9-10, realize that Romans 5:9 is true and can expect I Thessalonians 4:13-18 to absolutely be in their future.

oatmeal

xfrodobagginsx
June 2nd, 2011, 08:23 AM
Thanks.

jeremysdemo
June 2nd, 2011, 12:46 PM
Ga 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

of course righteousness didn't come by the law, those whom broke the law were not righteous.

people whom kept the law were not righteous by the law either, their virtue came by NOT breaking the law and being obedient to the Spirit of God, so the righteousness came from God, praise be.

keep shinin

jerm :cool:

freelight
June 2nd, 2011, 02:28 PM
~*~*~

Why wait to die to experience heaven?

How can one get to somewhere that is already always present?


;)


pj

coulter4president
June 2nd, 2011, 03:56 PM
Hate to be the one to break it to you, but when you die, that's it. It's over. Nothing after.

So make the most of your time here.

Illogical...

if there is nothing after this, one mihgt as well end it all right now...

because who wants to deal with all this virtual Hell... taxes, ignorant people, sociopaths who use and abuse, wroking 9-5 at a job you dont alwys like... (or ever like)... spouses who cheat... etc.... etc...

There is a meaning to life whether everyone finds it or not...

We are here to learn things... and the main thing we should learn is GOD

becasue this world is anything BUT Him...

we would need Him for that reason alone...

Tyrathca
June 2nd, 2011, 06:09 PM
Illogical...

if there is nothing after this, one mihgt as well end it all right now... Because if its going to happen and be permanent anyway why the rush in hastening it?

If you are going to perpetual bliss in heaven though, why not rush toward it? Death is nothing to look forward to for an atheist but for Christian on the other hand it is.
because who wants to deal with all this virtual Hell... taxes, ignorant people, sociopaths who use and abuse, wroking 9-5 at a job you dont alwys like... (or ever like)... spouses who cheat... etc.... etc... The world is actually a rather nice place for many of us privileged few in first world countries. Many things to enjoy and be entertained by. Sure there are negatives but by ending everything prematurely you miss out on everything, including the good.

You have a very depressing view of life. Obviously not all of us share it.

jeneve
June 5th, 2011, 08:30 PM
I am 100% sure that I would not go to heaven if I died today. Rather, I would look forward to spending eternity on earth.

Jesus said the meek will inherit the earth (Matthew 5:5) quoting Psalms 37:10-11. And Psalms 37:29 adds: "and will dwell therein forever."

amen to this! humans do NOT go to heaven or hell when they die. they are dead until the resurrection. It is at this point that we will be judged

Cruciform
June 5th, 2011, 09:04 PM
amen to this! humans do NOT go to heaven or hell when they die. they are dead until the resurrection.
...or not:

Examination of Conditional Immortality, "Soul Sleep" and "Annihilationism" (http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/num10.htm)

Soul Sleep (http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/soulslp.html)



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

jeneve
June 5th, 2011, 09:08 PM
...or not:

Examination of Conditional Immortality, "Soul Sleep" and "Annihilationism" (http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/num10.htm)
"The Dead Know Nothing" (http://www.ratzlaf.com/2-8-02%20Gladson%20On%20Death.pdf)
The Bible Disproves Soul Sleep (http://web.globalserve.net/~bumblebee/ecclesia/soulsleep.htm)
Soul Sleep (http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/soulslp.html)

never said anything about soul sleep. learn to read please. and to expand on your thoughts without using links. explain yourself in YOUR words, not someone else's

Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Cruciform
June 5th, 2011, 09:17 PM
never said anything about soul sleep.
Close enough, theologically speaking.


learn to read please.
Learn the difference between an ad hominem barb and an actual argument.


...and to expand on your thoughts without using links. explain yourself in YOUR words, not someone else's.
Unfortunately, you don't possess the authority to dictate to other members of TOL the structure and content of their posts. Sorry for your confusion.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

jeneve
June 5th, 2011, 09:21 PM
Close enough, theologically speaking.


Learn the difference between an ad hominem barb and an actual argument.


Unfortunately, you don't possess the authority to dictate to other members of TOL the structure and content of their posts. Sorry for your confusion.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

no confusion here. except you dont seem to have the knowlegde to carry on a meaningful debate. let me know when you get better at it

Cruciform
June 5th, 2011, 09:29 PM
no confusion here. except you dont seem to have the knowlegde to carry on a meaningful debate. let me know when you get better at it
What "debate"? You posted your claims in Post #61 without any supporting documentary proof whatsoever. I simply responded in kind. (In fact, unlike yourself, I actually provided some source material.) And now here you are trying to back me off with nothing but emotive ad hominem rhetoric. Sorry, not impressed. As you wrote: let me know when you get better at it.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

jeneve
June 5th, 2011, 09:36 PM
What "debate"? You posted your claims in Post #61 without any supporting documentary proof whatsoever. I simply responded in kind. (In fact, unlike yourself, I actually provided some source material.) And now here you are trying to back me off with nothing but emotive ad hominem rhetoric. Sorry, not impressed. As you wrote: let me know when you get better at it.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

you provided sources not from the bible. therefore your points are invalid. not trying to get you to back off, just know a little more about the discussion.

The soul that sins shall DIE.
For the dead know nothing.
Who in the grave shall give you thanks?
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing.
For God so loved the world, that He sent His only begotten Son, that whosever believes in Him shall not PERISH, but shall have ETERNAL LIFE.

so you see, we do not go to heaven or hell, but are dead. Knowing nothing until the resurrection.

keypurr
June 5th, 2011, 10:00 PM
you provided sources not from the bible. therefore your points are invalid. not trying to get you to back off, just know a little more about the discussion.

The soul that sins shall DIE.
For the dead know nothing.
Who in the grave shall give you thanks?
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing.
For God so loved the world, that He sent His only begotten Son, that whosever believes in Him shall not PERISH, but shall have ETERNAL LIFE.

so you see, we do not go to heaven or hell, but are dead. Knowing nothing until the resurrection.

You have truth my friend. Most do not wish to accept that.

jeneve
June 5th, 2011, 10:04 PM
You have truth my friend. Most do not wish to accept that.

thank you :) :kiss:

Cruciform
June 5th, 2011, 10:05 PM
you provided sources not from the bible.
You provided neither. In any case, the sources I did provide are filled with biblical texts and arguments, so your excuse simply falls flat.


The soul that sins shall DIE.
For the dead know nothing.
Who in the grave shall give you thanks?
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing.
For God so loved the world, that He sent His only begotten Son, that whosever believes in Him shall not PERISH, but shall have ETERNAL LIFE.

so you see, we do not go to heaven or hell, but are dead. Knowing nothing until the resurrection.
Already answered in the material cited in my earlier post.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Cruciform
June 5th, 2011, 10:06 PM
You have truth my friend...
Post #62 above.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

jeneve
June 5th, 2011, 10:13 PM
You provided neither. In any case, the sources I did provide are filled with biblical texts and arguments, so your excuse simply falls flat.


Already answered in the material cited in my earlier post.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

the material isnt from the bible, you gave no direct quotes from it. so your excuse simply falls flat.

jeneve
June 5th, 2011, 10:19 PM
LOL. I just read your "story". it was so full of nonsense as to be laughable. Sorry, but God means EXACTLY what He says. no need to twist the words to fit your beliefs. maybe you should change your beliefs to fit what He says.

Cruciform
June 6th, 2011, 11:50 AM
the material isnt from the bible, you gave no direct quotes from it.
Hmm...how much "material" from the Bible and "direct quotations" did you provide in Post #61...? Exactly. In any case, as already observed, the material I cited is filled with biblical texts and arguments. Try again.

(If you have no substantive answer to the sources I cited, just say so.)



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Cruciform
June 6th, 2011, 11:55 AM
LOL. I just read your "story". it was so full of nonsense as to be laughable. Sorry, but God means EXACTLY what He says. no need to twist the words to fit your beliefs. maybe you should change your beliefs to fit what He says.

who are you talking to? (If you don't use the 'quote' button, no one knows who you're addressing.)
to what "story" are you referring, specifically...?




Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

jeneve
June 6th, 2011, 01:00 PM
who are you talking to? (If you don't use the 'quote' button, no one knows who you're addressing.)
to what "story" are you referring, specifically...?




Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

:duh: who else other than you would I be addressing? no one else here. and as to the story, I mean all that nonsense you tried to palm off as fact. You need to get your facts from the bible itself, not from some twisted version someone spoon feeds you.

keypurr
June 6th, 2011, 01:54 PM
:duh: who else other than you would I be addressing? no one else here. and as to the story, I mean all that nonsense you tried to palm off as fact. You need to get your facts from the bible itself, not from some twisted version someone spoon feeds you.

He falls for anything the church tells him,

keypurr
June 6th, 2011, 01:57 PM
thank you :) :kiss:

Oh, thank you. You made me feel young again.

Cruciform
June 6th, 2011, 03:12 PM
who else other than you would I be addressing?
Who would know? There are lots of people on this thread.


no one else here.
Have you even read this thread...?


...and as to the story, I mean all that nonsense you tried to palm off as fact.
Your wholly non-authoritative and non-binding opinion is noted.


You need to get your facts from the bible itself...
"...from the Bible" as authoritatively and bindingly interpreted by whom, exactly? By you, or by Christ's historic Church?


...not from some twisted version someone spoon feeds you.
Sorry, but I'll take the authoritative teachings of Christ's historic Church over your opinions and preferences any day.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Cruciform
June 6th, 2011, 03:17 PM
He falls for anything the church tells him,
...just like Christians did in the 1st-century Apostolic Period (Lk. 10:16; 1 Jn. 4:6). Where did you ever get the notion that believers are free to deny or reject the authoritative teachings of Christ's own historic Church? :confused:

(It's okay. keypurr's just frustrated that no one is falling for anything that keypurr tells them... :darwinsm: )



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

jeneve
June 6th, 2011, 05:26 PM
Who would know? There are lots of people on this thread.


Have you even read this thread...?


Your wholly non-authoritative and non-binding opinion is noted.


"...from the Bible" as authoritatively and bindingly interpreted by whom, exactly? By you, or by Christ's historic Church?


Sorry, but I'll take the authoritative teachings of Christ's historic Church over your opinions and preferences any day.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

seeing as to how my source comes directly from the bible, and yours doesn't, it really doesn't matter. My facts come from God. how about yours?:grave:

freelight
June 6th, 2011, 05:49 PM
...or not:

Examination of Conditional Immortality, "Soul Sleep" and "Annihilationism" (http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/num10.htm)

Soul Sleep (http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/soulslp.html)



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Hi Cruce and all,

We've taken on 'soul sleep' elsewhere, its a fascinating subject, the eschatology of the soul, etc. I may look for an older thread on this, for it deserves its own space to continue with. I usually reject the option of 'eternal conscious torment' , and explored 'annihilation' or 'universal salvation' as more tenable options within Christian theological perspectives,...but various dimensions and possibilities exist in each catagory.

Liberally I usually assume a more spiritualist view, that all souls as long as they are consciously alive, and have the capacity to change their minds (repent, change, transform themselves) can continue to prosper...that infinite Love is ever available to inspire and guide souls in eternal progress and fulfillment of purpose.


pj

Cruciform
June 6th, 2011, 09:45 PM
seeing as to how my source comes directly from the bible, and yours doesn't, it really doesn't matter.
Please re-post your supposed biblical "source" from Post #61, the initial post to which I responded. Thanks.


My facts come from God. how about yours?
Same. (Uh-ohhh...now what do you do?)



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

jeneve
June 6th, 2011, 09:53 PM
Please re-post your supposed biblical "source" from Post #61, the initial post to which I responded. Thanks.


Same. (Uh-ohhh...now what do you do?)



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

your posts do not come from God. they come from what someone else says. which is why you only posted sources, not verses. :dunce: and my verses are in post 67.

Cruciform
June 6th, 2011, 10:09 PM
your posts do not come from God. they come from what someone else says.
...just as yours come from what someone else has told you. (You didn't really imagine that you came up with your beliefs on your own, did you...? :confused: )


...and my verses are in post 67.
Mine are in Post #62.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

jeneve
June 6th, 2011, 10:15 PM
...just as yours come from what someone else has told you. (You didn't really imagine that you came up with your beliefs on your own, did you...? :confused: )


Mine are in Post #62.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

yes, I came up with my beliefs on my own. while it is true that I was told a certain thing, I always looked up the truth for myself, and didnt believe what I was told until it was proven in the bible to be true. I think for myself.

and your verses arent in any posts, just a source from someone else.

Cruciform
June 6th, 2011, 10:24 PM
yes, I came up with my beliefs on my own.
No you didn't, nor does anyone else in the world. You derive your ideas and beliefs from sources outside of yourself, just like everyone else. In other words, you must learn them. You choose how to put those ideas and beliefs together to form a belief system, but you must first get those ideas and beliefs from sources that exist outside of yourself. My statement therefore stands as posted.


...and your verses arent in any posts, just a source from someone else.
...sources which are filled with biblical texts and arguments. Sorry, but your excuse that I supposedly "didn't post any verses" is a straightforward falsehood. They're right there in the sources I cited. Whether or not you decide to take advantage of them is another matter entirely.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

AmarBadz
June 7th, 2011, 02:32 AM
Hate to be the one to break it to you, but when you die, that's it. It's over. Nothing after.

So make the most of your time here.


I just wonder, that is there after life!? Many claim there is heaven and hell but what is the truth about it. All this pictures about Jesus, have anyone ever seen Him and draw a perfect replica of His face.

jeneve
June 7th, 2011, 05:03 AM
No you didn't, nor does anyone else in the world. You derive your ideas and beliefs from sources outside of yourself, just like everyone else. In other words, you must learn them. You choose how to put those ideas and beliefs together to form a belief system, but you must first get those ideas and beliefs from sources that exist outside of yourself. My statement therefore stands as posted.


...sources which are filled with biblical texts and arguments. Sorry, but your excuse that I supposedly "didn't post any verses" is a straightforward falsehood. They're right there in the sources I cited. Whether or not you decide to take advantage of them is another matter entirely.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

I have been to many types of churches. Catholic, SDA, Jehovah Witnesses, Baptist, etc. and have been taught many different ways. So then I turned to the bible itself, and learned what it really says. The bible is the only source from which I draw my beliefs.

And I do not lie. I am here for truth, not games. You did NOT post any verses yourself. What you did was get material that someone else wrote and post it, rather than going to the bible and look up the verses for yourself and posting them. My statement therefore stands as posted.:think:

jeneve
June 7th, 2011, 05:06 AM
I just wonder, that is there after life!? Many claim there is heaven and hell but what is the truth about it. All this pictures about Jesus, have anyone ever seen Him and draw a perfect replica of His face.

no one has ever drawn a perfect replica of Christ. If they have, it has either been destroyed or lost. All the supposed pictures you see of "Christ" are either pictures of white men, or they have long hair. Christ was neither white nor did He have long hair, so the pictures are false.

Cruciform
June 7th, 2011, 12:04 PM
I have been to many types of churches. Catholic, SDA, Jehovah Witnesses, Baptist, etc...
Interesting. Half of the "churches" you list don't even qualify as Christian groups. This is telling.


...and have been taught many different ways. So then I turned to the bible itself, and learned what it really says. The bible is the only source from which I draw my beliefs.
Yes, you turned to the Bible, which you then proceeded to interpret through the lens of your preferred Protestant doctrinal sources. This is true whether you're aware of having done so or not. An individual brings all that he's experienced, all that he's read, heard, or seen, all of the sermons, articles, or conversations that he's encountered---all of these sources of information---to the task of interpreting the Bible. Bottom line: The Bible is not interpreted in a vacuum.

This is why tens-of-thousands of Protestant sects can "turn to the Bible" just like you, and yet come up with scores of different and competing interpretations of the very same texts. It all depends upon which doctrinal traditions are chosen and permitted to inform one's interpretations.


You did NOT post any verses yourself. What you did was get material that someone else wrote and post it, rather than going to the bible and look up the verses for yourself and posting them.
What substantive difference does it make, since they're exactly the same verses? I posted two sources that accurately reflect my own point of view, and those sources contain the biblical texts that I would have offered had I written the articles myself. You'd do better to stop whining and simply read the material that was posted. But you'd rather quibble childishly over irrelevancies. Hmm...wonder why that is... :think:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

freelight
June 7th, 2011, 01:37 PM
~*~*~

So far seems like a lot of childish bickering not even germane to the subject here. These egoic obsessions really just go in circles. Soul-sleep is an interesting subject. Remember though that apart from some true inner knowing within your own being, about 'God', 'reality', 'existence'.....all there are....are points of view. Assuming these points of 'belief', 'dogma', 'opinion' are actual truths....is senseless, although they may be probable or logically concluded. They are still 'relative perspectives'. One does not have to strain their religious ego by defending them, - just viewpoints....remember that :)

The truth of existence is unviersally consisent and real NOW....as this Life that is now Being. This Being and Consciousness that I AM is already eternally whole. - one can throw ontop of this all manner of theological assmuption, indoctrination, images, concepts, etc....but the one reality that I Am remains. I can love and live from reality...because it is my true nature, and the true nature of all. It is Love itself.

The same laws of this eternal Presence, however an individual mind modifies such in space or time...remains universally consistent. Therefore, your experience of 'heaven' or 'hell' will be appropriated according to the receptivity or obscuration of your 'mind' to the presence of 'God'. - in this dimension or any world beyond. Heaven is at hand, NOW. One can see this ...or not see this. The One Presence can never be absesnt from ItSelf...since it is already all.

pj

jeneve
June 7th, 2011, 07:29 PM
Interesting. Half of the "churches" you list don't even qualify as Christian groups. This is telling.


Yes, you turned to the Bible, which you then proceeded to interpret through the lens of your preferred Protestant doctrinal sources. This is true whether you're aware of having done so or not. An individual brings all that he's experienced, all that he's read, heard, or seen, all of the sermons, articles, or conversations that he's encountered---all of these sources of information---to the task of interpreting the Bible. Bottom line: The Bible is not interpreted in a vacuum.

This is why tens-of-thousands of Protestant sects can "turn to the Bible" just like you, and yet come up with scores of different and competing interpretations of the very same texts. It all depends upon which doctrinal traditions are chosen and permitted to inform one's interpretations.


What substantive difference does it make, since they're exactly the same verses? I posted two sources that accurately reflect my own point of view, and those sources contain the biblical texts that I would have offered had I written the articles myself. You'd do better to stop whining and simply read the material that was posted. But you'd rather quibble childishly over irrelevancies. Hmm...wonder why that is... :think:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

I guess one of those groups that dont qualify as Christian is Catholic, so you are right on that.

The fact that you decide to call me Protestant simply shows how ignorant and blind you really are. Go do your whining somewhere else.

Cruciform
June 7th, 2011, 10:22 PM
I guess one of those groups that dont qualify as Christian is Catholic, so you are right on that.
Try again. :nono:


The fact that you decide to call me Protestant simply shows how ignorant and blind you really are.
"Protestant," as in "anti-Catholic." The shoe fits, so you'll just have to wear it.


Go do your whining somewhere else.
No surprise that you now resort to nothing but ad hominem rhetoric, since you clearly have no genuine argument---let alone refutation---to offer in answer to my statements. Moving on...



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

jeneve
June 8th, 2011, 06:43 AM
Try again. :nono:


"Protestant," as in "anti-Catholic." The shoe fits, so you'll just have to wear it.


No surprise that you now resort to nothing but ad hominem rhetoric, since you clearly have no genuine argument---let alone refutation---to offer in answer to my statements. Moving on...



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

no refutation to what statements? you haven't made any. You just let others do the talking for you. And being Catholic is as far from being a Christian as you can get. No need to try again.

Cruciform
June 8th, 2011, 12:18 PM
no refutation to what statements? you haven't made any. You just let others do the talking for you.
The statements in Post #91, for example, genius. Try to keep up.


And being Catholic is as far from being a Christian as you can get.
So, then, your claim is that there were no Christians until the 16th-century Protestant reformation, is that it? Brilliant. :darwinsm:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

jeneve
June 8th, 2011, 09:11 PM
The statements in Post #91, for example, genius. Try to keep up.


So, then, your claim is that there were no Christians until the 16th-century Protestant reformation, is that it? Brilliant. :darwinsm:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Oh yes, there were Christians before then. My claim is they weren't Catholic, and never have been. :p

And in post 91, that's just you posting what someone else says.

keypurr
June 8th, 2011, 10:06 PM
[FONT="Georgia"]
[FONT="Georgia"]So, then, your claim is that there were no Christians until the 16th-century Protestant reformation, is that it? Brilliant. :darwinsm:


Yes there were many Christians but your church tried to kill them all. Lucky they did not attane their goal. The TRUE church will never be wiped out. But the RCC will.
Babylon is falling, get out or her before it is to late.

Cruciform
June 8th, 2011, 10:44 PM
Oh yes, there were Christians before then. My claim is they weren't Catholic, and never have been.
Sorry, but it's back to Church History 101 for you.


And in post 91, that's just you posting what someone else says.
...and with which I agree completely.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Cruciform
June 8th, 2011, 10:46 PM
Yes there were many Christians but your church tried to kill them all. Lucky they did not attane their goal. The TRUE church will never be wiped out. But the RCC will. Babylon is falling, get out or her before it is to late.
>sigh<... Post #99 applies to you as well.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

jeneve
June 9th, 2011, 07:04 AM
Yes there were many Christians but your church tried to kill them all. Lucky they did not attane their goal. The TRUE church will never be wiped out. But the RCC will.
Babylon is falling, get out or her before it is to late.

very good Keypurr. And the beast rears its ugly head... Too bad many dont realize this is gonna happen again. Very soon. :execute:

pqmomba8
June 9th, 2011, 07:31 AM
Ummmmmm, you guys do know that Heaven (and Hell) is a man made (imagined) place, right? Come on, that many adults can't be that gullible......sheeeeeeesh

Cruciform
June 9th, 2011, 12:47 PM
very good Keypurr. And the beast rears its ugly head... Too bad many dont realize this is gonna happen again. Very soon.
...AND we're back to Post #99. :doh:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

jeneve
June 9th, 2011, 08:56 PM
...AND we're back to Post #99. :doh:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

here we go round the mulberry bush.. your post 99 says and means nothing :loser:

jeneve
June 9th, 2011, 08:56 PM
Ummmmmm, you guys do know that Heaven (and Hell) is a man made (imagined) place, right? Come on, that many adults can't be that gullible......sheeeeeeesh

you got that right..:thumb:

Cruciform
June 9th, 2011, 11:05 PM
here we go round the mulberry bush.. your post 99 says and means nothing.
Sure thing, friend. Whatever you say. I think I've humored you long enough. Take care, now.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

jeneve
June 10th, 2011, 04:25 AM
Sure thing, friend. Whatever you say. I think I've humored you long enough. Take care, now.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

well at least you can see the light finally. Try not to get burned! :rip:

Cruciform
June 10th, 2011, 12:50 PM
well at least you can see the light finally. Try not to get burned!
'kay... Buh-buy, now...



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

xfrodobagginsx
June 23rd, 2011, 10:21 PM
of course righteousness didn't come by the law, those whom broke the law were not righteous.

people whom kept the law were not righteous by the law either, their virtue came by NOT breaking the law and being obedient to the Spirit of God, so the righteousness came from God, praise be.

keep shinin

jerm :cool:

Again, you've missed the point. The Righeousness came by Christ dying on the cross and placing faith in Him and what He did. It's HIS righteousness that saves those who place their faith in Him NOT your own righteousness.

You keep shinin' too!

xfrodobagginsx
June 23rd, 2011, 10:22 PM
amen to this! humans do NOT go to heaven or hell when they die. they are dead until the resurrection. It is at this point that we will be judged

That may be what your cult teaches, but that's not according to the bible.

xfrodobagginsx
June 23rd, 2011, 10:27 PM
I guess one of those groups that dont qualify as Christian is Catholic, so you are right on that.

The fact that you decide to call me Protestant simply shows how ignorant and blind you really are. Go do your whining somewhere else.

Jehovah's Witness doesn't qualify as Christian either.

jeneve
June 25th, 2011, 06:56 AM
That may be what your cult teaches, but that's not according to the bible.

says who? you and YOUR cult?

jeneve
June 25th, 2011, 06:57 AM
Jehovah's Witness doesn't qualify as Christian either.

in case you didn't notice, I'm not a JW. get your facts straight before you talk

xfrodobagginsx
June 29th, 2011, 09:15 AM
says who? you and YOUR cult?

Says the bible, God's word. I'm not in a cult. Those who deny the Deity is Christ are a cult and not recognized by mainstream Chrisians as such.

jeneve
June 29th, 2011, 01:50 PM
Says the bible, God's word. I'm not in a cult. Those who deny the Deity is Christ are a cult and not recognized by mainstream Chrisians as such.

I never denied the deity of Christ. Nice try but you fail. :p

xfrodobagginsx
July 12th, 2011, 09:17 PM
I never denied the deity of Christ. Nice try but you fail. :p

Do you:

1) Believe that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh and equal with the Father?

2) Believe that the Holy Spirit is God and equal with the Father and the Son?

3) Believe in Heaven and Hell being real places?

4) Believe that the only way to be saved is through accepting what Jesus Christ did for you on the cross to pay for your sins and that it's not by being good, being baptized, going to church or anything other than trusting in what Jesus did for you and believing that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for your sins?

xfrodobagginsx
August 22nd, 2011, 09:38 AM
Please take the time to read this first post and pray that prayer at the bottom of it to God with a humble heart if you haven't yet.

xfrodobagginsx
November 2nd, 2011, 09:19 PM
....

`Love.
November 2nd, 2011, 10:58 PM
I'm so happy someone finally figured out the secrets of life and was nice enough to post them in a self-serving thread! :chuckle: Care to share some of God's lasagna recipes?

xfrodobagginsx
November 9th, 2011, 09:34 AM
Nope. Just His message of Salvation. It's not hard to figure out if you read His word for yourself.

xfrodobagginsx
February 29th, 2012, 09:50 AM
Please take the time to read this first post and pray that prayer at the bottom of it to God from your heart. Accept His free gift of savation. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

xfrodobagginsx
March 1st, 2012, 07:51 PM
....

DaveDodo007
March 2nd, 2012, 04:44 PM
xfrodobagginsx:

How on earth are you going to get into Valhalla believing rubbish like that?;)

xfrodobagginsx
March 3rd, 2012, 10:34 PM
Please take this seriously. Just read the post.

xfrodobagginsx
March 5th, 2012, 06:08 PM
Please let me know if you pray that prayer and ask Jesus Christ into your life.

xfrodobagginsx
March 8th, 2012, 08:43 PM
xfrodobagginsx:

How on earth are you going to get into Valhalla believing rubbish like that?;)

Come on now, please take this seriously.

xfrodobagginsx
September 13th, 2012, 07:47 AM
Please read this first post.

xfrodobagginsx
September 14th, 2012, 07:03 AM
Watch the entire video and there is no doubt dinosaurs walked with men. You may want to skip to about 30 minutes into it. That's when he gets into the hard evidence. Don't watch 10 minutes of it and say "that doesn't prove anything" Skip to about 30 minutes into it and then listen.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2528412371399195162&ei=M0rGSqSEI4W0qwLWve3rBg&q=hovind+dinosaurs+lived+with+men&hl=en#

lifeisgood
September 14th, 2012, 07:33 AM
Hate to be the one to break it to you, but when you die, that's it. It's over. Nothing after.

Could you provide proof of such assertion?


So make the most of your time here.

Let's not forget Luke 12.

lifeisgood
September 14th, 2012, 07:43 AM
The first part of your post (which is basically a repitition of the Four Spiritual Laws tract, the so-called "Romans Road") was at least partially informative. Point #4, however, begs the following question:

Where does the New Testament teach that by reciting a prayer---even if you "meant it with all of your heart"---you thereby "become a child of God and will go to heaven when you die"?
Indeed, this seems to run counter to what the Bible actually says about people becoming Christians in the New Testament. (Consider, for example, Peter's answer when asked what one must do to be saved in Acts 2:37-41.)


Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved" (Rom 10:9)

That for me is reciting a prayer. I will recite that prayer for you: "I, lifeisgood, confess with my mouth that Jesus is Lord, and [I, lifeisgood] believe in my heart that God raised him from the dead." And because of God's promise in His Word, I am saved.

Saying words, save NO one. BELIEVING the recited words of the prayer, saves ALL who recite the prayer because they BELIEVED ALREADY.

You can accept what the Word of God states or you can reject that.

xfrodobagginsx
September 18th, 2012, 07:24 AM
Although you don't have to say the prayer to be saved, it is a way of expressing your belief that Jesus Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead for your sins and that you accept that gift as payment for your sins and that you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.

xfrodobagginsx
September 20th, 2012, 08:09 AM
Did Jesus have a Wife? No. What about the recent Document found that says that he had a wife? It wasn't even written until 400 years AFTER Jesus and the Eyewitnesses lived. It Contradicts the Actual Eyewitness Testimonies of the Bible. It's
a hoax. Nothing More. Who knows better? The Eyewitnesses who were Actually There or Someone who didn't live until 400 years later and wasn't even there? Just another attack on Christianity. Do you see Christians going around killing people because of it? Nope.

xfrodobagginsx
September 25th, 2012, 03:58 PM
Please read this first post and pray that prayer at the bottom of it to God from your heart.

xfrodobagginsx
September 28th, 2012, 07:01 PM
Please read this first post and pray that prayer to God from your heart.

xfrodobagginsx
September 29th, 2012, 09:13 PM
"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved" (Rom 10:9)

That for me is reciting a prayer. I will recite that prayer for you: "I, lifeisgood, confess with my mouth that Jesus is Lord, and [I, lifeisgood] believe in my heart that God raised him from the dead." And because of God's promise in His Word, I am saved.

Saying words, save NO one. BELIEVING the recited words of the prayer, saves ALL who recite the prayer because they BELIEVED ALREADY.

You can accept what the Word of God states or you can reject that.

It sounds like it doesn't it.

xfrodobagginsx
October 3rd, 2012, 11:28 AM
.....

PureX
October 3rd, 2012, 11:30 AM
Well first, you get a really tall ladder ....

xfrodobagginsx
November 11th, 2012, 08:00 PM
How can a ladder reach a spiritual place? Is this a spiritual ladder? ;)

jeremysdemo
November 12th, 2012, 09:02 AM
it's Jacob's. :)

keep shinin

jerm :cool:

xfrodobagginsx
August 8th, 2014, 09:52 PM
Please take the time to read this first post.

OCTOBER23
August 8th, 2014, 10:26 PM
since we contain a lot of IRON in our bodies , I personally think that Everyone who is born is being recorded daily by god and he is just a program on God's Hardrive.

Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Ben Masada
August 14th, 2014, 05:00 AM
According to Jesus in Luke 16:29-31 all you have to do is to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. You have all the right in the world to disagree with me but it is written in your own NT.

Ben Masada
August 14th, 2014, 05:05 AM
How can a ladder reach a spiritual place? Is this a spiritual ladder? ;)

No, it is a dream. Every thing is possible in a dream, even for a cow to fly.

Ben Masada
August 14th, 2014, 05:09 AM
How can a ladder reach a spiritual place? Is this a spiritual ladder? ;)

No, it was a dream. Every thing is possible in a dream even for a cow to fly.

xfrodobagginsx
September 10th, 2014, 09:40 AM
According to Jesus in Luke 16:29-31 all you have to do is to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. You have all the right in the world to disagree with me but it is written in your own NT.

Jesus was talking to the Jews at that time who were still under the Mosaic law. Once Christ rose from the dead and the Jews rejected their Messiah, the Gospel of Grace was given to Paul by Christ to give to the Gentiles.



Ro 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

xfrodobagginsx
September 12th, 2014, 09:07 PM
According to Jesus in Luke 16:29-31 all you have to do is to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. You have all the right in the world to disagree with me but it is written in your own NT.

We are no longer under Moses's law. We are under grace.

Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Ro 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

xfrodobagginsx
September 19th, 2014, 08:35 PM
Wow! It's been a while since I've been here. It's good to be back.

Totton Linnet
September 20th, 2014, 04:04 AM
Whosoever shall call upon the Lord shall be saved...xfrodo uses his message as a means to bring the reader of it to the point of calling upon the Lord. As for for inviting the Lord Jesus into our hearts....well it may not suit my doctrinal viewpoint but the Lord Jesus must in SOME way come to dwell in us.

The indwelling Christ is the essence of salvation and eternal life.

There is enough gospel truth in xfrodo's message that will save a humble enquirer, the Lord working with him.

beloved57
September 20th, 2014, 04:15 AM
Whosoever shall call upon the Lord shall be saved...xfrodo uses his message as a means to bring the reader of it to the point of calling upon the Lord. As for for inviting the Lord Jesus into our hearts....well it may not suit my doctrinal viewpoint but the Lord Jesus must in SOME way come to dwell in us.

The indwelling Christ is the essence of salvation and eternal life.

There is enough gospel truth in xfrodo's message that will save a humble enquirer, the Lord working with him.

The Op is nothing but salvation by works, by what a man does, a apostate message altogether !

xfrodobagginsx
September 24th, 2014, 10:14 PM
Not true. Salvation is by grace through faith in Christ alone, believing that He died and rose again for our sins. I am the OP and I don't believe that works saves.

xfrodobagginsx
September 25th, 2014, 09:48 PM
The Op is nothing but salvation by works, by what a man does, a apostate message altogether !

Not true. Salvation is by grace through faith in Christ alone, believing that He died and rose again for our sins. I am the OP and I don't believe that works saves.

beloved57
September 28th, 2014, 12:53 AM
Not true. Salvation is by grace through faith in Christ alone, believing that He died and rose again for our sins. I am the OP and I don't believe that works saves.

Sure you do ! Do you believe that a person Christ died for is saved from the penalty of their sins when they are unbelievers and rejecting God , based solely on Christ death alone ? Yes or No !

Grosnick Marowbe
September 28th, 2014, 12:56 AM
Not true. Salvation is by grace through faith in Christ alone, believing that He died and rose again for our sins. I am the OP and I don't believe that works saves.

Don't listen to B57 he's a "Hyper-Calvinist" He's also
very pretentious and tells posters, "See ya at the judgment"
a lot! He's a clown by any other name!

xfrodobagginsx
September 30th, 2014, 09:00 PM
Plate Techtonics in the bible:

Pr 9:1 ¶ Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:

1Sa 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them.


Ps 75:3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.

Continental drift?

Job 9:6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.

Plate Techtonics:

The theory states that Earth's outermost layer, the lithosphere, is broken into 7 large, rigid pieces called plates: the African, North American, South American, Eurasian, Australian, Antarctic, and Pacific plates. Several minor plates also exist, including the Arabian, Nazca, and Philippines plates.

The plates are all moving in different directions and at different speeds (from 2 cm to 10 cm per year--about the speed at which your fingernails grow) in relationship to each other. The plates are moving around like cars in a demolition derby, which means they sometimes crash together, pull apart, or sideswipe each other. The place where the two plates meet is called a plate boundary. Boundaries have different names depending on how the two plates are moving in relationship to each other

crashing: Convergent Boundaries,
pulling apart: Divergent Boundaries,
or sideswiping: Transform Boundaries
With respect to plate boundaries is your home located in the middle of, or near the boundary of a plate? What does this mean for you tectonically?

xfrodobagginsx
September 30th, 2014, 09:03 PM
Don't listen to B57 he's a "Hyper-Calvinist" He's also
very pretentious and tells posters, "See ya at the judgment"
a lot! He's a clown by any other name!

He seems to think he can judge the salvation of those who disagree with him. He's telling me that I believe that salvation is by works, when that is a lie. A person is saved by placing their faith in Jesus Christ, believing that He died and rose again for their sins. That's what the bible says.

Ktoyou
September 30th, 2014, 09:14 PM
ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN?



Yes!

xfrodobagginsx
October 1st, 2014, 08:59 PM
Baptism does NOT save.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

This verse doesn't say that baptism saves. Look at the explanation of the verse. That which is born of flesh is flesh (water represents fleshly birth, the mother's womb contains water), that which is born of Spirit is spirit (Spiritual birth)

Mr 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. {for: or, unto}

Lu 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

As far as baptism saving you, it is the baptism of repentence that saves, not water baptism. The baptism is an outward showing of what happens when you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior. It is NOT salvation, nor is it part of it. It is a believer's act of obedience.

Mr 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
(KJV)

Look at this verse. At first glance it appears as though baptism saves. But it says "He that believeth not shall be damned." He is not damned for not being baptized.

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
(KJV)

The baptism being talked about is a good concience toward God not water baptism. It says "not the putting away of the filth of the flesh" but what? "a good conscience toward God"

Here are verses regarding Salvation:

Ac 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Where is baptism mentioned here for Salvation?

1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. {words: or, speech}
(KJV)

What did it just say?

Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Where is baptism mentioned here?

Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Where is baptism mentioned here?

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

It says it is by grace through faith, not baptism.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(KJV)

It says whosoever believeth in Him. Where is baptism meantioned here?

If baptism were necessary for salvation surely it would have been mentioned in these important passages.

You cannot possess the Holy Ghost unless you are saved right?

Ac 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

They were already saved and possessed the Holy Ghost and they had not been baptized yet.

Ga 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Where is baptism mentioned here?

Mr 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

I believe that some of those verses that you believe are talking about water baptism are actually talking about being baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Ro 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Baptism is not mentioned here.

Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

The Door is Jesus Christ. We enter in by accepting Him.

Re 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

We open the door by receiving Him, what He did on the cross for us to pay for our sins. Baptism is an act of obedience. It is a public profession of faith.

Lu 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

This theif couldn't be baptized and Jesus Christ told him what? Today thou shalt be with me in paradise. Because He asked Jesus to save him. He received what Jesus did for Him.

Ac 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

What was the requirement for Him to be baptized? He has to believe. Baptism is for believer's only. Believer's are already Saved.

1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

If believing means that you know that you have eternal life, where is baptism mentioned here?

It is very clear that baptism is NOT for salvation but an act of obedience. It is an ordinaince just as communion is.

xfrodobagginsx
October 3rd, 2014, 11:04 PM
Please read this first post.

xfrodobagginsx
October 10th, 2014, 06:42 PM
Yes!

:jump:

xfrodobagginsx
October 11th, 2014, 08:33 PM
......

jeremysdemo
October 12th, 2014, 09:15 AM
good to see you again froto,

it seems like just yesterday were were at Cygnus,,,remember those atheist?

they knew more about the Bible than you did...but your heart seems to be in the right place!

xfrodobagginsx
October 14th, 2014, 02:34 PM
Jesus Christ IS God

There are some religions out there that believe and teach that Jesus Christ is not God. Some teach that He is a god, but not thee God. I am going to demonstrate through the word of God that He is God and created all things.

Jesus’s name “Immanuel” LITERALLY means “God with us”

Mt 1:23 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "God with us."

Isa 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.

He always existed (from everlasting):

Mic 5:2 (NKJV) "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, [Though] you are little among the thousands of Judah, [Yet] out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth [are] from of old, From everlasting."

This prophecy is of Christ's first comming. His Goings forth have been from everlasting because Christ Jesus is God.

Jesus Christ is one with the Father. He is God.

Joh 14:8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are one God:

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

Jesus declares Himself to be the great I AM of the Old Testiment. I AM is God's Name

Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

I am IS God. There is only one God. That God has three parts.

Ex 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

His Disciple/Apostle Peter Admits that Jesus knows “All things” (Only God knows all things)

Joh 21:17 He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?" Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, "Do you love Me?" And he said to Him, "Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You." Jesus said to him, "Feed My sheep.

In Him Dwells all of the fullness of the Godhead Bodily:

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. {rudiments: or, elements} {make a prey: or, seduce you, or, lead you astray} For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: {his...: Gr. the Son of his love}
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. {in...: or, among all} 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;


God's plurality is found in Genesis

Ge 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

His Disciple/Apostle Thomas Confessed Him to be God and Jesus did NOT rebuke Him for it:

Joh 20:27 Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing."And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

This verse demonstrates how God has multiple aspects. He said Let “US” make man in “OUR” image. He didn’t say, let me make man in My image, He said let US make man is OUR image.

His Apostle/Disciple John declares Christ Jesus to be God:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

His Apostle/Disciple John declares that the world was made by Him (Jesus Christ)

Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

All things were made by Him and He was in the beginning with God (Father)

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

There are MANY places where He is worshipped and Jesus NEVER tells them not to worship Him, NOT once. Only God is to be worshipped, because Jesus IS God, Jesus IS worshipped:

Mt 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. {presented: or, offered}
Mt 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
Mt 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.
Mt 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Mt 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Mt 18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. {worshipped him: or, besought him}
Mt 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
Mt 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
Mr 5:6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
Mr 15:19 And they smote him on the head with a reed, and did spit upon him, and bowing their knees worshipped him.
Lu 24:52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:
Joh 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
Ac 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
Re 5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

Scripture refers to Him as the Lord, Jesus Christ. The phrase "The Lord" is unique only to God:

Here are a few mentioning "The Lord Your God"

De 5:6 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. {bondage: Heb. servants}

De 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

De 5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

De 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.


Here are many calling Him Jesus Christ, The Lord.

Ac 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

Ac 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Ac 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Ac 28:31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

Ro 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Ro 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Ro 15:30 Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

1Co 1:3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Co 16:22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

2Co 1:2 Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

2Co 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. <<The second [epistle to the Corinthians was written from Philippi, a city of Macedonia, by Titus and Lucas.]>>

Eph 1:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Eph 6:23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Php 1:2 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Php 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: {conversation...: or, we live or conduct ourselves as citizens of heaven, or, for obtaining heaven}

Col 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Th 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.


Conclusion: Jesus Christ is God. Not a God but the God of the bible. God has three parts. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. All are equal, yet the Son is submissive to the Father and the Holy Spirit is submissive to the Son. Jesus Christ was an EXAMPLE for us. He died on the cross for our sins so that we could go to heaven and be forgiven of our sins. He shed His blood for us.

xfrodobagginsx
October 14th, 2014, 02:35 PM
good to see you again froto,

it seems like just yesterday were were at Cygnus,,,remember those atheist?

they knew more about the Bible than you did...but your heart seems to be in the right place!

No, they didn't know more about the Bible than I did, they knew more about the Bible than YOU did. I was never at Cygnus forums, but I will gladly go there and debate and share the true gospel.

Keep Shinin'

xfrodobagginsx
October 15th, 2014, 07:20 PM
I went to that site and am now debating. You should go there and chime in.

Ben Masada
October 16th, 2014, 03:02 PM
Not true. Salvation is by grace through faith in Christ alone, believing that He died and rose again for our sins. I am the OP and I don't believe that works saves.

Do you mean that, by obeying the Law, you won't be saved from your troubles? If that's what you mean, let's test your statement. If you believe that salvation from your troubles does not come from obeying the Law but only by believing that Jesus died and rose again, commit a crime, on purpose or by mistake, it does not matter and try to tell the Judge in Court that you believe that Jesus died and rose again to see if the Judge will let you go scot-free. Then and only then you will understand what obedience to the Law brings to you.

xfrodobagginsx
October 16th, 2014, 07:40 PM
Do you mean that, by obeying the Law, you won't be saved from your troubles? If that's what you mean, let's test your statement. If you believe that salvation from your troubles does not come from obeying the Law but only by believing that Jesus died and rose again, commit a crime, on purpose or by mistake, it does not matter and try to tell the Judge in Court that you believe that Jesus died and rose again to see if the Judge will let you go scot-free. Then and only then you will understand what obedience to the Law brings to you.

Are you talking about the Law of Moses or are you talking about Obeying the Law of the United States?

xfrodobagginsx
October 22nd, 2014, 12:57 PM
???

xfrodobagginsx
October 24th, 2014, 09:16 PM
Jesus fulfilled hundreds of prophecies, He healed the sick, He made the blind to see, He made the lame to walk, He walked on water, He turned water into wine, He raised the dead, He predicted His own death, burial and resurrection, then He died and rose again. By doing so, He proved that He is God in the flesh.

OCTOBER23
October 24th, 2014, 09:26 PM
INTERESTING MISQUOTES

I CAN DO NOTHING OF MYSELF

Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,

The Son can do nothing of himself,

Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing:

jeremysdemo
November 2nd, 2014, 10:09 AM
good to see you again froto,

it seems like just yesterday were were at Cygnus,,,remember those atheist?

they knew more about the Bible than you did...but your heart seems to be in the right place!No, they didn't know more about the Bible than I did, they knew more about the Bible than YOU did. I was never at Cygnus forums, but I will gladly go there and debate and share the true gospel.

Keep Shinin'

you don't remember then, that forum has been down for 5 years now.

that is where I first met you tho!

haha,,,you remember my keep shinin tho! lol

it's the little things some times. :cloud9:

jeremysdemo
November 2nd, 2014, 10:10 AM
Jesus fulfilled hundreds of prophecies, He healed the sick, He made the blind to see, He made the lame to walk, He walked on water, He turned water into wine, He raised the dead, He predicted His own death, burial and resurrection, then He died and rose again. By doing so, He proved that He is God in the flesh.

those are your empirical proofs?

ever heard of Enoch or Elisha?

jeremysdemo
November 2nd, 2014, 10:17 AM
No, they didn't know more about the Bible than I did, they knew more about the Bible than YOU did.

yeah I know! that is why I was there in the first place to study! lol

coptic MarkA....Schøyen collection, good times good times. :)

hey if you see him around say high to Peter Kirby for me!

xfrodobagginsx
November 3rd, 2014, 01:38 PM
you don't remember then, that forum has been down for 5 years now.

that is where I first met you tho!

haha,,,you remember my keep shinin tho! lol

it's the little things some times. :cloud9:

The keep shinin' was from this thread. Scroll back a few pages.

xfrodobagginsx
November 3rd, 2014, 01:39 PM
Jesus Christ IS God

There are some religions out there that believe and teach that Jesus Christ is not God. Some teach that He is a god, but not thee God. I am going to demonstrate through the word of God that He is God and created all things.

Jesus’s name “Immanuel” LITERALLY means “God with us”

Mt 1:23 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "God with us."

Isa 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.

He always existed (from everlasting):

Mic 5:2 (NKJV) "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, [Though] you are little among the thousands of Judah, [Yet] out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth [are] from of old, From everlasting."

This prophecy is of Christ's first comming. His Goings forth have been from everlasting because Christ Jesus is God.

Jesus Christ is one with the Father. He is God.

Joh 14:8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are one God:

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

Jesus declares Himself to be the great I AM of the Old Testiment. I AM is God's Name

Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

I am IS God. There is only one God. That God has three parts.

Ex 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

His Disciple/Apostle Peter Admits that Jesus knows “All things” (Only God knows all things)

Joh 21:17 He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?" Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, "Do you love Me?" And he said to Him, "Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You." Jesus said to him, "Feed My sheep.

In Him Dwells all of the fullness of the Godhead Bodily:

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. {rudiments: or, elements} {make a prey: or, seduce you, or, lead you astray} For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: {his...: Gr. the Son of his love}
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. {in...: or, among all} 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;


God's plurality is found in Genesis

Ge 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

His Disciple/Apostle Thomas Confessed Him to be God and Jesus did NOT rebuke Him for it:

Joh 20:27 Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing."And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

This verse demonstrates how God has multiple aspects. He said Let “US” make man in “OUR” image. He didn’t say, let me make man in My image, He said let US make man is OUR image.

His Apostle/Disciple John declares Christ Jesus to be God:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

His Apostle/Disciple John declares that the world was made by Him (Jesus Christ)

Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

All things were made by Him and He was in the beginning with God (Father)

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

There are MANY places where He is worshipped and Jesus NEVER tells them not to worship Him, NOT once. Only God is to be worshipped, because Jesus IS God, Jesus IS worshipped:

Mt 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. {presented: or, offered}
Mt 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
Mt 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.
Mt 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Mt 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Mt 18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. {worshipped him: or, besought him}
Mt 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
Mt 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
Mr 5:6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
Mr 15:19 And they smote him on the head with a reed, and did spit upon him, and bowing their knees worshipped him.
Lu 24:52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:
Joh 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
Ac 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
Re 5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

Scripture refers to Him as the Lord, Jesus Christ. The phrase "The Lord" is unique only to God:

Here are a few mentioning "The Lord Your God"

De 5:6 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. {bondage: Heb. servants}

De 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

De 5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

De 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.


Here are many calling Him Jesus Christ, The Lord.

Ac 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

Ac 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Ac 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Ac 28:31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

Ro 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Ro 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Ro 15:30 Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

1Co 1:3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Co 16:22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

2Co 1:2 Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

2Co 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. <<The second [epistle to the Corinthians was written from Philippi, a city of Macedonia, by Titus and Lucas.]>>

Eph 1:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Eph 6:23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Php 1:2 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Php 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: {conversation...: or, we live or conduct ourselves as citizens of heaven, or, for obtaining heaven}

Col 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Th 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.


Conclusion: Jesus Christ is God. Not a God but the God of the bible. God has three parts. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. All are equal, yet the Son is submissive to the Father and the Holy Spirit is submissive to the Son. Jesus Christ was an EXAMPLE for us. He died on the cross for our sins so that we could go to heaven and be forgiven of our sins. He shed His blood for us.

xfrodobagginsx
November 5th, 2014, 04:09 PM
Please read this first post...

Sharikov
November 5th, 2014, 04:39 PM
Will you do that today? If you will, you can be 100% sure that you will go to heaven when you die.

Well, no, you will be 100% sure that you will go to heaven if your understanding of Christianity is true. I say this as a Christian who largely agrees with your understanding. But the reality is that I do not "know" that this understanding of Christianity is correct, or even that Christianity is correct at all. I don't feel the need to "whistle past the graveyard" by insisting that I know things that no one can possibly know. After long experience, observation and study, my intuition tells me that Christianity is true, or at least the closest to the truth of the available options. So I live my life as though Christianity were true, while accepting that it may not be. I may "know in my heart" that Christianity is true, but this is not what we typically mean by "knowing" and is not likely to carry much weight with anyone else. The "heart knowledge" will unfold for each individual after he or she has turned to Jesus and the Holy Spirit has begun His work.

xfrodobagginsx
November 7th, 2014, 10:56 PM
Well, no, you will be 100% sure that you will go to heaven if your understanding of Christianity is true. I say this as a Christian who largely agrees with your understanding. But the reality is that I do not "know" that this understanding of Christianity is correct, or even that Christianity is correct at all. I don't feel the need to "whistle past the graveyard" by insisting that I know things that no one can possibly know. After long experience, observation and study, my intuition tells me that Christianity is true, or at least the closest to the truth of the available options. So I live my life as though Christianity were true, while accepting that it may not be. I may "know in my heart" that Christianity is true, but this is not what we typically mean by "knowing" and is not likely to carry much weight with anyone else. The "heart knowledge" will unfold for each individual after he or she has turned to Jesus and the Holy Spirit has begun His work.

Well, If you truly have a relationship with Jesus Christ, then you can Know that you have eternal life.

1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

steko
November 7th, 2014, 11:02 PM
OP: HOW TO GET TO HEAVEN WHEN YOU DIE

One best get to heaven now.

If you're dead......it's too late.

Timotheos
November 7th, 2014, 11:26 PM
ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN?

I have a higher goal than that. My goal is to never die. What must I do to inherit eternal life?

jamie
November 8th, 2014, 07:55 AM
Jesus said the meek will inherit the earth so why would anyone want to go to heaven?


And I saw a new heaven and a new earth for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Ben Masada
November 8th, 2014, 03:38 PM
One best get to heaven now.

If you're dead......it's too late.

Do you wanna know some thing Steko? I do agree with that one. Jesus himself implied that the kingdom of heaven is akin to a peaceful state of mind we are all urged to welcome into our own selves. (Luke 17:21) So, if we don't get into it now, once dead it will be too late.

xfrodobagginsx
November 11th, 2014, 08:48 PM
Christians Do go to heaven:
Mr 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
(KJV)
Php 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.
People in heaven:
Re 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
(KJV)
Jesus Christ is going to rule and reign on the earth. The believers will be with Him on the earth at that time. Right now believer's go to heaven to be with the Lord Jesus Christ because that is where He is.

xfrodobagginsx
November 12th, 2014, 11:53 AM
Try this link to a guy who has been to hell and back. I posted it before, but the link was messed up. Just watch it. It's very interesting.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4136610474021109864&q=nde&total=2606&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=8

Please watch this then read this first post.

xfrodobagginsx
November 16th, 2014, 10:11 PM
This message needs to be pinned.

xfrodobagginsx
November 19th, 2014, 03:50 PM
Try this link to a guy who has been to hell and back. I posted it before, but the link was messed up. Just watch it. It's very interesting.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4136610474021109864&q=nde&total=2606&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=8

Please watch this then read this first post.

Please watch this then read this first post.

OCTOBER23
November 19th, 2014, 04:09 PM
I think that we are all being Recorded on a Big Spiritual Computer

and we will be copied into a spirit body later.
--------------------------------------------------

gimme a beer.

xfrodobagginsx
November 23rd, 2014, 02:20 PM
Please read this first post if you haven't yet.

aikido7
November 23rd, 2014, 02:36 PM
ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN?

There are some things that you should know:

1. Realize that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior:

Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Ro 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

This all began with the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. God created them perfect, there was no death or sorrow. God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed God and as a result, sin entered into the world. The pain which this world sees is the result of sin.

2. Because of our sins, we die both spiritually and physically, but God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross for you:

Ro 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Ro 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. for us."

Every person who has ever lived is a sinner and is not righteous because we do bad things. A sin is a crime against God, just as if you steal something at the store, it is punishable by going to jail. It's the same thing with sin. Even if we lie one time, the punishment is hell, which is a prison for those who commit crimes against God. That’s because you must be perfect in order to get to heaven. No matter how well you live your life from then on, you have already committed a sin which will be punished if you are not pardoned. If you commit a crime, and then live as a good citizen you still will go to jail for the crime you committed. Right? Just as the president can pardon a crime so you won't go to jail, Jesus can pardon your sins so that you do not go to hell, and can go to heaven when you die.

3. If you will Admit to Jesus Christ that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior, Believe in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead and Accept Him as your Lord and Savior and you will be forgiven and taken to heaven to be with Him when you die.

Joh 1:12 “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name”

Ro 10:9,10 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.."

You cannot get to heaven by being a good person, going to church, baptism or any other way other than by turning to Jesus, believing in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for your sins and placing your trust in Him. While these are good things to do, some people believe that they will get to heaven if they do these things, but the bible says that there is only one way to heaven and that is through receiving what Jesus Christ did on the cross for you.

Will you do that today? If you will, you can be 100% sure that you will go to heaven when you die.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS AND ROSE FROM THE DEAD FOR YOUR SINS?

ARE YOU WILLING TO TURN TO JESUS CHRIST FOR SALVATION?

4. If you are willing to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and believe it with all of your heart, you could pray something like this to God from your heart:

"Dear Lord Jesus, I believe that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead for my sins. I ask you to come into my heart and forgive me for my sins, save me, take me to be with You when I die. I now receive You as my Lord and Savior. Thank You for saving me. In Jesus holy name, Amen."

If you have placed your faith in Jesus Christ and meant it with all of your heart, you are now a child of God and will go to heaven.

Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing church and follow in baptism.Sorry to be so blunt, but Jesus of Nazareth was concerned about life on earth in the here and now. He said little about Heaven (Matthew substituted "Kingdom of Heaven" for "Kingdom of God" because first-century Jews were not to utter the sacred name of God out loud).

For Jesus, heaven was in good shape and could take care of itself. The historical figure of Jesus said the kingdom will come "here on EARTH as it is in heaven."

xfrodobagginsx
November 24th, 2014, 04:04 PM
Sorry to be so blunt, but Jesus of Nazareth was concerned about life on earth in the here and now. He said little about Heaven (Matthew substituted "Kingdom of Heaven" for "Kingdom of God" because first-century Jews were not to utter the sacred name of God out loud).

For Jesus, heaven was in good shape and could take care of itself. The historical figure of Jesus said the kingdom will come "here on EARTH as it is in heaven."

Jesus was concerned with saving sinner's from hell. He came to die on the cross and rise from the dead so that anyone who places their faith in Him would be saved. The Kingdom of Heaven is referring to those who belong in His Kingdom. The Kingdom of God refers to the physical place that it will happen. One day heaven will come down to the earth.

xfrodobagginsx
November 26th, 2014, 07:16 PM
Please take the time to read this first post.

aikido7
November 27th, 2014, 10:07 PM
ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN?

There are some things that you should know:

1. Realize that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior:

Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Ro 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

This all began with the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. God created them perfect, there was no death or sorrow. God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed God and as a result, sin entered into the world. The pain which this world sees is the result of sin.

2. Because of our sins, we die both spiritually and physically, but God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross for you:

Ro 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Ro 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. for us."

Every person who has ever lived is a sinner and is not righteous because we do bad things. A sin is a crime against God, just as if you steal something at the store, it is punishable by going to jail. It's the same thing with sin. Even if we lie one time, the punishment is hell, which is a prison for those who commit crimes against God. That’s because you must be perfect in order to get to heaven. No matter how well you live your life from then on, you have already committed a sin which will be punished if you are not pardoned. If you commit a crime, and then live as a good citizen you still will go to jail for the crime you committed. Right? Just as the president can pardon a crime so you won't go to jail, Jesus can pardon your sins so that you do not go to hell, and can go to heaven when you die.

3. If you will Admit to Jesus Christ that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior, Believe in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead and Accept Him as your Lord and Savior and you will be forgiven and taken to heaven to be with Him when you die.

Joh 1:12 “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name”

Ro 10:9,10 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.."

You cannot get to heaven by being a good person, going to church, baptism or any other way other than by turning to Jesus, believing in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for your sins and placing your trust in Him. While these are good things to do, some people believe that they will get to heaven if they do these things, but the bible says that there is only one way to heaven and that is through receiving what Jesus Christ did on the cross for you.

Will you do that today? If you will, you can be 100% sure that you will go to heaven when you die.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS AND ROSE FROM THE DEAD FOR YOUR SINS?

ARE YOU WILLING TO TURN TO JESUS CHRIST FOR SALVATION?

4. If you are willing to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and believe it with all of your heart, you could pray something like this to God from your heart:

"Dear Lord Jesus, I believe that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead for my sins. I ask you to come into my heart and forgive me for my sins, save me, take me to be with You when I die. I now receive You as my Lord and Savior. Thank You for saving me. In Jesus holy name, Amen."

If you have placed your faith in Jesus Christ and meant it with all of your heart, you are now a child of God and will go to heaven.

Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing church and follow in baptism.How about "How to Pick Up One's Cross and Follow Jesus Before You Die"?

Gurucam
November 28th, 2014, 02:19 AM
ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN?

There are some things that you should know:

1. Realize that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior:

Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Ro 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

This all began with the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. God created them perfect, there was no death or sorrow. God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed God and as a result, sin entered into the world. The pain which this world sees is the result of sin.

2. Because of our sins, we die both spiritually and physically, but God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross for you:

Ro 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Ro 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. for us."

Every person who has ever lived is a sinner and is not righteous because we do bad things. A sin is a crime against God, just as if you steal something at the store, it is punishable by going to jail. It's the same thing with sin. Even if we lie one time, the punishment is hell, which is a prison for those who commit crimes against God. That’s because you must be perfect in order to get to heaven. No matter how well you live your life from then on, you have already committed a sin which will be punished if you are not pardoned. If you commit a crime, and then live as a good citizen you still will go to jail for the crime you committed. Right? Just as the president can pardon a crime so you won't go to jail, Jesus can pardon your sins so that you do not go to hell, and can go to heaven when you die.

3. If you will Admit to Jesus Christ that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior, Believe in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead and Accept Him as your Lord and Savior and you will be forgiven and taken to heaven to be with Him when you die.

Joh 1:12 “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name”

Ro 10:9,10 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.."

You cannot get to heaven by being a good person, going to church, baptism or any other way other than by turning to Jesus, believing in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for your sins and placing your trust in Him. While these are good things to do, some people believe that they will get to heaven if they do these things, but the bible says that there is only one way to heaven and that is through receiving what Jesus Christ did on the cross for you.

Will you do that today? If you will, you can be 100% sure that you will go to heaven when you die.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS AND ROSE FROM THE DEAD FOR YOUR SINS?

ARE YOU WILLING TO TURN TO JESUS CHRIST FOR SALVATION?

4. If you are willing to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and believe it with all of your heart, you could pray something like this to God from your heart:

"Dear Lord Jesus, I believe that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead for my sins. I ask you to come into my heart and forgive me for my sins, save me, take me to be with You when I die. I now receive You as my Lord and Savior. Thank You for saving me. In Jesus holy name, Amen."

If you have placed your faith in Jesus Christ and meant it with all of your heart, you are now a child of God and will go to heaven.

Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing church and follow in baptism.

There is only one path to heaven click the arrow:


click the small arrow here for a related and very relevant post

patrick jane
November 28th, 2014, 02:22 AM
There is only one path to heaven click the arrow:

AMEN ! i always feel good reading that and applying it in my life - thank you

Gurucam
November 28th, 2014, 06:45 AM
AMEN ! i always feel good reading that and applying it in my life - thank you

It is precisely what Jesus has instructed.

Hope you mean what you said.

oatmeal
November 28th, 2014, 06:49 AM
A 'confession' and 'faith' may be a 'start' on the spiritual path, but the 'proof' comes via 'personal experience'.....your own 'resurrection' and 'ascension'.


pj

Getting saved by doing Romans 10:9-10 is the start.

Then and only then are we capable of doing anything spiritually worthwhile.

Note the sequence in Ephesians 2:8-10, first the gift of salvation, then works.

oatmeal
November 28th, 2014, 06:50 AM
You can have a GENUINE relationship with God. He will NEVER leave you nor forsake you. Please accept His offer of Salavation. You will never regret it.

You have the order of events wrong, but you offer a nice summation of the truths

oatmeal
November 28th, 2014, 06:54 AM
Therefore, you cannot get to heaven by being a good person...

That is correct.

No one gets to heaven by their own works, but simply accepting the works done by God in Christ. II Corinthians 5:19

We accept those works by doing Romans 10:9-10

Gurucam
November 28th, 2014, 06:57 AM
How about "How to Pick Up One's Cross and Follow Jesus Before You Die"?

Following Jesus, to be a Christian means, following Jesus in His regenerated Spirit.

Following Jesus does not mean following the tenants and laws which Jesus delivered in physically spoken words while he walked on earth in a physical body.

It means achieving communion with Jesus in His regenerated Spirit, as Paul did, then in order to actually follow Jesus you must be led into all of your works by precisely what this Spirit of Jesus has in mind for you to pray for, say and do, as discerned intuitively and directly through your own heart or spirit.

Under this system you are in righteousness of God that is without the law. This means that you have God given freedom, liberty and justification to transgress all social, moral and religious ideals and laws (including the Ten Commandments) and not get sin but instead be glorified by God.

Being led by Jesus means obeying precisely what this Spirit of Jesus has in mind for you to pray for say and do even if you have to transgress the Ten Commandments and all other such social, moral and religious ideals and laws.

Any other idea or view is absolutely wrong and a corruption of the KJV N.T. and the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus left just two options. chose one:

Jesus left two instructions to two different sets/kinds of people:

He instructed

1.) that the dead be left to bury their dead (the dead are people who are not yet 'born again', they cannot be and are not, called to be Christians)

2.) that those who are called to be Christians, follow Him in His regenerated Spirit.
Jesus is not the only one in spirit heaven.

aikido7
November 28th, 2014, 04:47 PM
I could care less. Jesus was concerned with this life, not the next. Heaven was in good shape and could take care of itself. The earth is where the problems are.

"...thy Kingdom come ON EARTH as it is in Heaven..."

aikido7
November 28th, 2014, 05:04 PM
[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]

Following Jesus, to be a Christian means, following Jesus in His regenerated Spirit. I have yet to see Christianity involves "following Jesus in His regenerated spirit in the New Testament


Following Jesus does not mean following the tenants and laws which Jesus delivered in physically spoken words while he walked on earth in a physical body. It seems to me you are following a "belief-based" faith instead of an "action-based" orientation. I think the richness and challenges of Christianity are negated when all it takes for a person to be "Christian" entails giving one's assent to a list of ancient, first-century beliefs and concepts.


It means achieving communion with Jesus in His regenerated Spirit, as Paul did, then in order to actually follow Jesus you must be led into all of your works by precisely what this Spirit of Jesus has in mind for you to pray for, say and do, as discerned intuitively and directly through your own heart or spirit.Yes, you are correct that Paul was focused on the crucifixion and resurrection (he said Jesus was born of a woman and he seems ignorant of the empty tomb tradition in the gospels. Of course, his letters are the earliest evidence of Christian writing in the New Testament. He also did not accept a bodily resurrection, focusing instead on a "glorified body."


Under this system you are in righteousness of God that is without the law. This means that you have God given freedom, liberty and justification to transgress all social, moral and religious ideals and laws (including the Ten Commandments) and not get sin but instead be glorified by God.It looks like you are overlaying a theological framework over Scripture. As far as being "glorified" I have not seen that literal and specific term advocated or mentioned by Jesus. But I could be wrong.

Jesus seems to have been squarely against much of what had been the normative Judaism in his day. This is the reason the elite priestly class was made uncomfortable by this Galilean upstart. Jesus advocated an unmediated relationship with God. The barrier of the Temple curtain was torn in two when Jesus died. The worship and encountering of the divine was available to ALL of humankind.


Imagine no religion. I wonder if you can.


Being led by Jesus means obeying precisely what this Spirit of Jesus has in mind for you to pray for say and do even if you have to transgress the Ten Commandments and all other such social, moral and religious ideals and laws.

Noted. But I do not share your personal theology here.


Any other idea or view is absolutely wrong and a corruption of the KJV N.T. and the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ.I am sorry you feel that way. I am afraid such a stance will naturally lead to bigotry and even violence.

When you think you have the truth and those who don't are wrong or evil, if they are all gone then you clearly hold "the truth as you see it." It is then not a large leap to conclude that if all the evil people were destroyed, then all the good people that have the truth would live forever in peace.

xfrodobagginsx
December 1st, 2014, 06:34 PM
You have the order of events wrong, but you offer a nice summation of the truths

Then give me the order of events...

Daniel1611
December 1st, 2014, 07:09 PM
Under this system you are in righteousness of God that is without the law. This means that you have God given freedom, liberty and justification to transgress all social, moral and religious ideals and laws (including the Ten Commandments) and not get sin but instead be glorified by God.

Being led by Jesus means obeying precisely what this Spirit of Jesus has in mind for you to pray for say and do even if you have to transgress the Ten Commandments and all other such social, moral and religious ideals and laws.

Any other idea or view is absolutely wrong and a corruption of the KJV N.T. and the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. [/box]

Are you seriously suggesting that people are not under the commandments of God? Whoever sins willfully tramples the Son of God underfoot. I'm not saying following the commandments is required for salvation, but if we don't follow them, we will be punished by God on this earth. THAT is what the Bible says.

xfrodobagginsx
December 2nd, 2014, 08:32 PM
Are you seriously suggesting that people are not under the commandments of God? Whoever sins willfully tramples the Son of God underfoot. I'm not saying following the commandments is required for salvation, but if we don't follow them, we will be punished by God on this earth. THAT is what the Bible says.

The Ten Commandments are Technically part of the Mosaic Law, which No, we are not under the Mosaic Law any longer. With that said, All of the Commandments were reiterated in the New Testament, except the Sabbath Day, therefore, we are to obey them, except the Sabbath Day, but not for Salvation, but rather BECAUSE we are already saved.

Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Ro 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 14:34 ¶ Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Ga 4:21 ¶ Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Ga 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

xfrodobagginsx
December 2nd, 2014, 08:35 PM
Eph 5:3 ¶ But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Ro 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; {to retain: or, to acknowledge} {a reprobate...: or, a mind void of judgment or, an unapproving mind}
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: {without natural...: or unsociable}
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them

meshak
December 2nd, 2014, 08:39 PM
ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN?

You don't have to worry about hell if you are striving to be like Jesus and strive to follow all of His teachings and commands.

Christianity is all about following Jesus' teachings, nothing else.

beloved57
December 3rd, 2014, 01:32 AM
You don't have to worry about hell if you are striving to be like Jesus and strive to follow all of His teachings and commands.

Christianity is all about following Jesus' teachings, nothing else.

For those Christ died for, they don't have to worry about hell because by His death /obedience alone they are made righteous Rom 5:19 ! That means they are going to heaven as the righteous Matt 13:43 !

meshak
December 3rd, 2014, 02:30 AM
For those Christ died for, they don't have to worry about hell because by His death /obedience alone they are made righteous Rom 5:19 ! That means they are going to heaven as the righteous Matt 13:43 !

You add your own worldly and out of context to your reasoning.

I pity you.

aikido7
December 3rd, 2014, 08:46 AM
How to pick up one's cross and follow Jesus while you live....

xfrodobagginsx
December 4th, 2014, 08:09 PM
You don't have to worry about hell if you are striving to be like Jesus and strive to follow all of His teachings and commands.

Christianity is all about following Jesus' teachings, nothing else.

Nope.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

It's by faith in the Finshed work of Jesus Christ on your behalf:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God; 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

xfrodobagginsx
December 6th, 2014, 05:03 PM
Please take the time to read this first post if you haven't yet.

xfrodobagginsx
December 8th, 2014, 08:09 PM
How to pick up one's cross and follow Jesus while you live....

Yes start by reading this first post and inviting Him into your life...then after you are born again and on your way to heaven, follow in baptism and attend a Bible believing church, read the Bible, pray, ect. Not so that you can be saved, but because you are already saved.

Daniel1611
December 8th, 2014, 08:20 PM
Yes start by reading this first post and inviting Him into your life...then after you are born again and on your way to heaven, follow in baptism and attend a Bible believing church, read the Bible, pray, ect. Not so that you can be saved, but because you are already saved.

Amen. As soon as you believe on Christ, you are passed from death to life. Before you do anything, you are already saved if you believe on Christ. Then get baptized and clean up your life because God said to. People can't seem to accept that believing on Christ alone is what saved you. They still think they have to do other things to be saved. In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, we are passed from death to life as soon as we believe on Christ.

xfrodobagginsx
December 10th, 2014, 10:28 PM
Very True. Thanks for the support!

Ben Masada
December 12th, 2014, 02:59 PM
The answer to the above question is by allowing heaven into ourselves while we live. (Luke 17:21)

xfrodobagginsx
December 14th, 2014, 10:17 PM
No, no, no! It's by accepting Jesus Christ into our lives.

xfrodobagginsx
December 18th, 2014, 09:55 PM
......

xfrodobagginsx
December 29th, 2014, 06:10 PM
Please take the time to read this first post if you haven't yet.

xfrodobagginsx
January 5th, 2015, 07:05 PM
Amen. As soon as you believe on Christ, you are passed from death to life. Before you do anything, you are already saved if you believe on Christ. Then get baptized and clean up your life because God said to. People can't seem to accept that believing on Christ alone is what saved you. They still think they have to do other things to be saved. In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, we are passed from death to life as soon as we believe on Christ.

Praise God!

xfrodobagginsx
January 7th, 2015, 10:47 PM
Please take the time to read this first post if you haven't yet.

aikido7
January 8th, 2015, 05:56 PM
Yes start by reading this first post and inviting Him into your life...then after you are born again and on your way to heaven, follow in baptism and attend a Bible believing church, read the Bible, pray, ect. Not so that you can be saved, but because you are already saved.

I believe in grace. I believe we are saved by grace according to Jesus.
But if you are talking about a set of requirements to receive the grace of salvation, you are talking about something, but it sure isn't grace

xfrodobagginsx
January 12th, 2015, 09:35 PM
Aikido7, I believe in receiving Grace by exercising our FAITH in Christ Jesus for Salvation as the Bible says to do.

aikido7
January 13th, 2015, 04:01 PM
Aikido7, I believe in receiving Grace by exercising our FAITH in Christ Jesus for Salvation as the Bible says to do.God's grace, according to Jesus, is freely offered to all without conditions. If grace is to be offered with a set or list of theological requirements, it is something besides grace.

Jesus said in Matthew that "God makes his sun to shine on the good and the evil ALIKE and sends his rain to fall on BOTH the righteous and the unrighteous."

Elsewhere he also asked "Who made me a judge?"

He taught the Kingdom of God in parables. He did not use propositional theology.

xfrodobagginsx
January 18th, 2015, 09:02 PM
Are you a Universalist? The Bible clearly says that salvation only is appropriated to those who actually Believe the Gospel.

xfrodobagginsx
January 19th, 2015, 10:04 PM
There is only one way to heaven and it's through Jesus Christ.

patrick jane
January 19th, 2015, 10:21 PM
aaahh, foget abot et ! you're both saved !

patrick jane
January 19th, 2015, 10:32 PM
Yes start by reading this first post and inviting Him into your life...then after you are born again and on your way to heaven, follow in baptism and attend a Bible believing church, read the Bible, pray, ect. Not so that you can be saved, but because you are already saved.

hi frodo. great posts. pretty soon you'll be ready for the big time ! MAD, Jesus Is God, Paul, and other hotly debated threads. i read all the Tolkein books in 7th grade, 82. way before the movies. Bilbo is my favorite. and Gandalf. look forward to seeing you ! God Bless ! ! !

Ben Masada
January 20th, 2015, 02:59 PM
Are you a Universalist? The Bible clearly says that salvation only is appropriated to those who actually Believe the Gospel.

Not according to Thomas Aquinas in the "Summa Theologica." He said that one must be a Catholic in order to achieve salvation.

aikido7
January 20th, 2015, 07:07 PM
It should be "How to Pick Up One's Cross and Follow Jesus When We Are Still Around."

I think we need to get free of this "belief-based, Heaven/Hell" conservative faith and start focusing on "action-based" Christianity.

Jesus came to preach the Kingdom of God on Earth "as it is in Heaven." He taught in parables and said nothing in the way of propositional theology used by today's believers.

Heaven is just fine and can manage things quite well as it is.
Earth is where the problems are, as Jesus well knew.

aikido7
January 20th, 2015, 07:10 PM
Aikido7, I believe in receiving Grace by exercising our FAITH in Christ Jesus for Salvation as the Bible says to do.If grace has anything to do with a set of requirements, it is no longer grace.

It becomes a secular notion that has nothing to do with God's love or Jesus's preaching. We always want to "get" something and feel we have to "do" something to get it. It is hard for us to realize a God who--in Jesus's words--"...makes his sun to shine on both the evil AND the good and sends his rain to fall on the righteous and the unrighteous ALIKE."

I think we can easily see the passion and character of the God that Jesus knew. He did not "believe" in God--He KNEW him intimately.

xfrodobagginsx
January 27th, 2015, 03:29 PM
The problem is that that's not what the Bible says. It says salvation is by grace through what? F A I T H So obviously, God doesn't consider Exercising F A I T H in Him to be a work. I think He is referring to physical works, not where we place our heart and mind.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Every person who has ever lived is a sinner and is not righteous because we do bad things. A sin is a crime against God, just as if you steal something at the store, it is punishable by going to jail. It's the same thing with sin. Even if we lie one time, the punishment is hell, which is a prison for those who commit crimes against God. That’s because you must be perfect in order to get to heaven. No matter how well you live your life from then on, you have already committed a sin which will be punished if you are not pardoned. If you commit a crime, and then live as a good citizen you still will go to jail for the crime you committed. Right? Just as the president can pardon a crime so you won't go to jail, Jesus can pardon your sins so that you do not go to hell, and can go to heaven when you die

Ben Masada
January 27th, 2015, 03:39 PM
Are you a Universalist? The Bible clearly says that salvation only is appropriated to those who actually Believe the Gospel.

That's not what Thomas Aquinas said in the "Summa Theologica." He said that to achieve salvation you must belong in the Catholic Church. What about that?

Ben Masada
January 27th, 2015, 03:43 PM
No, no, no! It's by accepting Jesus Christ into our lives.

Who said so, Paul? That's according to the gospel of Paul. According to the gospel of Jesus, salvation comes from the Jews. (John 4:22)

xfrodobagginsx
February 3rd, 2015, 05:02 PM
hi frodo. great posts. pretty soon you'll be ready for the big time ! MAD, Jesus Is God, Paul, and other hotly debated threads. i read all the Tolkein books in 7th grade, 82. way before the movies. Bilbo is my favorite. and Gandalf. look forward to seeing you ! God Bless ! ! !

You graduated in 1987? I Graduated in 1989. I have poked my head in some of those, but this thread is my passion. Take care!

xfrodobagginsx
February 3rd, 2015, 05:06 PM
Who said so, Paul? That's according to the gospel of Paul. According to the gospel of Jesus, salvation comes from the Jews. (John 4:22)

Jesus preached to the Jews who were still under the Law, NOT the Gentiles.

Mt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Paul's Gospel of Grace was given to Him by the Ascended Lord Jesus Christ and is for the Gentiles.

Ro 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:


Secondly, the Direct Disciples of Jesus APPROVED of Paul's Message and Writings and accepted them as from the Lord. You should too. Unless you know more than they.

aikido7
February 3rd, 2015, 05:20 PM
The problem is that that's not what the Bible says. It says salvation is by grace through what? F A I T H So obviously, God doesn't consider Exercising F A I T H in Him to be a work. I think He is referring to physical works, not where we place our heart and mind.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Every person who has ever lived is a sinner and is not righteous because we do bad things. A sin is a crime against God, just as if you steal something at the store, it is punishable by going to jail. It's the same thing with sin. Even if we lie one time, the punishment is hell, which is a prison for those who commit crimes against God. That’s because you must be perfect in order to get to heaven. No matter how well you live your life from then on, you have already committed a sin which will be punished if you are not pardoned. If you commit a crime, and then live as a good citizen you still will go to jail for the crime you committed. Right? Just as the president can pardon a crime so you won't go to jail, Jesus can pardon your sins so that you do not go to hell, and can go to heaven when you die

Your personal beliefs, interpretation and theology are welcome. Your post definitely helps enlarge the "pool of meaning" in this discussion.

My own faith is all about trying to separate the unique voiceprint of Jesus from the theology, interpretations, legends and metaphors.

LUKE 7:50, 18:24 and numerous other sayings of Jesus...

"Your FAITH has SAVED you."
"Your FAITH has MADE YOU WELL."

etc., etc. etc.

meshak
February 3rd, 2015, 06:28 PM
It should be "How to Pick Up One's Cross and Follow Jesus When We Are Still Around."

I think we need to get free of this "belief-based, Heaven/Hell" conservative faith and start focusing on "action-based" Christianity.

Jesus came to preach the Kingdom of God on Earth "as it is in Heaven." He taught in parables and said nothing in the way of propositional theology used by today's believers.

Heaven is just fine and can manage things quite well as it is.
Earth is where the problems are, as Jesus well knew.

Amen!

meshak
February 3rd, 2015, 06:32 PM
If grace has anything to do with a set of requirements, it is no longer grace.

Grace is salvation that what God grant us if we are faithful to Jesus.

Salvation is all about Jesus and His teachings. Everything revolve around being faithful to Jesus.

xfrodobagginsx
February 5th, 2015, 08:51 PM
Salvation is all about BELIEVING Jesus and who He really is, that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for your sins and accept His pardon for your sins. If you do, then following Him should come naturally, as you desire to seek and serve Him, not so that you can be saved, but because you are already saved.

xfrodobagginsx
February 6th, 2015, 09:59 PM
hi frodo. great posts. pretty soon you'll be ready for the big time ! MAD, Jesus Is God, Paul, and other hotly debated threads. i read all the Tolkein books in 7th grade, 82. way before the movies. Bilbo is my favorite. and Gandalf. look forward to seeing you ! God Bless ! ! !

The Big Time? You mean the movies? Lol I do love the Lord of the Rings, which is why I use this Alias when witnessing, however, I have actually been using the Aliases before the Movies. I grew up with the Cartoons and always loved them as well.

Ben Masada
February 7th, 2015, 04:17 PM
Salvation is all about BELIEVING Jesus and who He really is, that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for your sins and accept His pardon for your sins. If you do, then following Him should come naturally, as you desire to seek and serve Him, not so that you can be saved, but because you are already saved.

From what you are already saved, from sins? There has never been a man upon earth to have done only good and never sinned. That's in Eccles. 7:20. Even Jesus who was a man upon earth for 33 years of his life was not without sin if you believe Mat. 23:13-33 as he broke the Golden Rule more than several times.

Salvation is about obeying the Law. Do that and I guarantee you to be saved of all troubles.

The best way to follow a religious leader is by keeping his Faith which in the case of Jesus was Judaism. (Rev. 14:12)

Ben Masada
February 7th, 2015, 04:37 PM
[quote]Jesus preached to the Jews who were still under the Law, NOT the Gentiles.

Jesus himself was under the Law. (Mat. 5:17-19; Luke 16:29-31)


Mt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Nevertheless, he said that the Jews are the light unto the Gentiles. (Mat. 5:14)


Paul's Gospel of Grace was given to Him by the Ascended Lord Jesus Christ and is for the Gentiles.

So, when did he go to the Gentiles? All his life was in the synagogues of the Jews since his first station in Damascus and until his last one in Rome. (Acts 9:1,2 an 28:17)


Ro 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office.

Why was not Peter informed that he was no longer the apostle to the Gentiles? (Acts 15:7)


Secondly, the Direct Disciples of Jesus APPROVED of Paul's Message and Writings and accepted them as from the Lord. You should too. Unless you know more than they.

Who said so, Paul? I can't believe that! The disciples must have been trying to get rid of him so that he left Jerusalem to prevent another havoc like the first one Paul caused the first time he visited the city.

xfrodobagginsx
February 10th, 2015, 09:34 PM
Paul is the one responsible for the Gentiles getting the Gospel and Peter DID approve of it. This Link Is a Wealth of Information on it. It will give you all of the answers that you seek. http://www.matthewmcgee.org/2gospels.html

Peter Supports Paul's Gospel and admits that Grace is hard for him (as a Jew) to Understand:

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

xfrodobagginsx
February 12th, 2015, 08:03 PM
Please take the time to read this first post if you haven't yet.

xfrodobagginsx
February 18th, 2015, 08:44 PM
.......

Ben Masada
February 21st, 2015, 04:48 PM
Paul is the one responsible for the Gentiles getting the Gospel and Peter DID approve of it. This Link Is a Wealth of Information on it. It will give you all of the answers that you seek. http://www.matthewmcgee.org/2gospels.html

Peter Supports Paul's Gospel and admits that Grace is hard for him (as a Jew) to Understand:

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Peter never wrote those two Letters. Evidence of what I am saying, you will find in 2 Cor. 1:19, I Thess. 1:1 and II Thess. 2:1 after reading I Peter 5:12. Silvanus was the scribe of Paul, not Peter's. Paul would never allow his scribe to get dictation from Peter a Jew of the circumcision. Paul would preach to the Jews to stop circumcising their children. (Acts 21:21)

xfrodobagginsx
February 24th, 2015, 03:01 PM
Peter most certainly did write those two letters. Most Scholars would disagree with what you are saying. Merely mentioning the name of Silvanus doesn't prove your point. Paul preached to the Gentiles not the Jews. So, the who argument about him preaching to the Jews to stop circumcising their children is false. The Jews were under that gospel of the Kingdom, Paul preached to the gentiles who were under the gospel of grace.

Ben Masada
February 25th, 2015, 02:53 PM
Peter most certainly did write those two letters. Most Scholars would disagree with what you are saying. Merely mentioning the name of Silvanus doesn't prove your point. Paul preached to the Gentiles not the Jews. So, the who argument about him preaching to the Jews to stop circumcising their children is false. The Jews were under that gospel of the Kingdom, Paul preached to the gentiles who were under the gospel of grace.

As I can see, you have no interest in understanding what you read even in your own NT. Even the Catholic Church responsible for the NAB testimonies in a preface to those letters attributed to Peter that they were written around 90-95 ACE when Peter had been dead since 67 ACE by execution in Rome under Nero government. And again, Paul would never permit his scribe to take dictation from an apostle of the circumcision which was Peter. Besides, Luke talks about Peter having been a peasant-like illiterate man. Such people don't write books. (Acts 4:13)

xfrodobagginsx
February 26th, 2015, 09:43 PM
It's not ACE, it's A.D. The Scholars would disagree with you. The First NT book was written around the 50s A.D. and The last book of the Bible, Revelation, was written in 90 A.D. You sound like a Liberal. You probably don't even believe what's inside the Bible either. Is Jesus Christ God in the flesh? Yes or No?

Ben Masada
February 27th, 2015, 02:56 PM
It's not ACE, it's A.D. The Scholars would disagree with you. The First NT book was written around the 50s A.D. and The last book of the Bible, Revelation, was written in 90 A.D. You sound like a Liberal. You probably don't even believe what's inside the Bible either. Is Jesus Christ God in the flesh? Yes or No?

Of course not! Jesus was a Jew whose Faith was Judaism. Judaism does not adopt the Greek myth of the demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman. This idea that Jesus was god is a Hellenist doctrine adopted by Christianity.

aikido7
February 27th, 2015, 03:00 PM
ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN?

There are some things that you should know:

1. Realize that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior:

Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Ro 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

This all began with the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. God created them perfect, there was no death or sorrow. God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed God and as a result, sin entered into the world. The pain which this world sees is the result of sin.

2. Because of our sins, we die both spiritually and physically, but God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross for you:

Ro 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Ro 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. for us."

Every person who has ever lived is a sinner and is not righteous because we do bad things. A sin is a crime against God, just as if you steal something at the store, it is punishable by going to jail. It's the same thing with sin. Even if we lie one time, the punishment is hell, which is a prison for those who commit crimes against God. That’s because you must be perfect in order to get to heaven. No matter how well you live your life from then on, you have already committed a sin which will be punished if you are not pardoned. If you commit a crime, and then live as a good citizen you still will go to jail for the crime you committed. Right? Just as the president can pardon a crime so you won't go to jail, Jesus can pardon your sins so that you do not go to hell, and can go to heaven when you die.

3. If you will Admit to Jesus Christ that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior, Believe in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead and Accept Him as your Lord and Savior and you will be forgiven and taken to heaven to be with Him when you die.

Joh 1:12 “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name”

Ro 10:9,10 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.."

You cannot get to heaven by being a good person, going to church, baptism or any other way other than by turning to Jesus, believing in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for your sins and placing your trust in Him. While these are good things to do, some people believe that they will get to heaven if they do these things, but the bible says that there is only one way to heaven and that is through receiving what Jesus Christ did on the cross for you.

Will you do that today? If you will, you can be 100% sure that you will go to heaven when you die.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS AND ROSE FROM THE DEAD FOR YOUR SINS?

ARE YOU WILLING TO TURN TO JESUS CHRIST FOR SALVATION?

4. If you are willing to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and believe it with all of your heart, you could pray something like this to God from your heart:

"Dear Lord Jesus, I believe that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead for my sins. I ask you to come into my heart and forgive me for my sins, save me, take me to be with You when I die. I now receive You as my Lord and Savior. Thank You for saving me. In Jesus holy name, Amen."

If you have placed your faith in Jesus Christ and meant it with all of your heart, you are now a child of God and will go to heaven.

Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing church and follow in baptism.Before he died, my dad said that when you die it will either be the most profound and amazing journey we will ever take or it will be absolutely nothing.

I no longer am fixated on Heaven or getting there. Jesus preached a Kingdom of God ON EARTH as it is in Heaven. It's the world where the problems are. Heaven is fine and can take care of itself.