THE CHURCH DID NOT START AT PENTECOST

DougE

Well-known member
2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

Jesus, after his resurrection, spoke unto the twelve apostles of the kingdom of God (Acts 1:3). The aspect of the kingdom of God Jesus spoke of was the kingdom of the Davidic covenant; the kingdom promised Israel to reign with Christ on earth (1 Chronicles 17:12 Luke 1:32). The apostles wanted to know if Jesus was about to restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6).

Jesus commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which was the Holy Ghost (Acts 1:5).

2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

The apostles, filled with the Holy Ghost, began to speak in tongues.

2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Speaking in tongues, as can clearly be seen in verse 6, is speaking in the hearers language. Also in verses 8 and 11, tongues involves the ability given the apostles to speak and be heard in a specific language, not of their own. It was a sign given them to substantiate their ministry.

Peter, standing with the eleven, spoke in the following verse:

2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Pentecost and the filling of the Holy Ghost was prophesied by Joel. This was a fulfillment of prophecy in Joel 2:28-32. This prophecy was directed to Israel, and those present were for the most part Jews.

2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

In the above verses it should be noted that Peter was not addressing the newly formed church, the Body of Christ, but rather, Israel only. Peter preached Jesus as Christ and his resurrection, the gospel of the Circumcision (Galatians 2:7). The resurrection of Jesus Christ would assure the fulfillment of the future promised kingdom on earth, in which, he was raised from the dead to sit on the throne of David. The Holy Spirit will cause Israel to keep his commandments and reign and rule with him over the nations, to be a light of salvation to the Gentiles (Ezekiel 36:24-28 Revelation 20:4 Matthew 5:14).

2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Peter, in the above verses, states that Jesus is both Lord and Christ. Jesus rose from the dead declaring that he is the Son of God (Romans 1:4).

In verse 38 below, Peter shows that Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, the Saviour of Israel, who alone can forgive the sins of the nation of Israel.

2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

Peter is only offering the above promises of remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost to repentant Israel and those Gentiles who would come to God thru Israel.

2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

The believers were baptized according to the commandment of the Davidic covenant announced by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:2); the cleansing for the remission of sins; the recognition of the name,authority, and the idenity of Jesus. They were added to them, the church of the Kingdom to come, not the body of Christ.

2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

They sold all they had and provided to all according to the commandment to Israel by Jesus in Matthew 13:46 and Matthew 19:21.

2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

They were in one accord as well. The church here is not the body of Christ. The church here are the believers in Christ who were promised entrance into the kingdom on earth. The kingdom which is postponed and interrupted by our Dispensation of Grace.
 

Zeke

Well-known member
2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

Jesus, after his resurrection, spoke unto the twelve apostles of the kingdom of God (Acts 1:3). The aspect of the kingdom of God Jesus spoke of was the kingdom of the Davidic covenant; the kingdom promised Israel to reign with Christ on earth (1 Chronicles 17:12 Luke 1:32). The apostles wanted to know if Jesus was about to restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6).

Jesus commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which was the Holy Ghost (Acts 1:5).

2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

The apostles, filled with the Holy Ghost, began to speak in tongues.

2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Speaking in tongues, as can clearly be seen in verse 6, is speaking in the hearers language. Also in verses 8 and 11, tongues involves the ability given the apostles to speak and be heard in a specific language, not of their own. It was a sign given them to substantiate their ministry.

Peter, standing with the eleven, spoke in the following verse:

2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Pentecost and the filling of the Holy Ghost was prophesied by Joel. This was a fulfillment of prophecy in Joel 2:28-32. This prophecy was directed to Israel, and those present were for the most part Jews.

2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

In the above verses it should be noted that Peter was not addressing the newly formed church, the Body of Christ, but rather, Israel only. Peter preached Jesus as Christ and his resurrection, the gospel of the Circumcision (Galatians 2:7). The resurrection of Jesus Christ would assure the fulfillment of the future promised kingdom on earth, in which, he was raised from the dead to sit on the throne of David. The Holy Spirit will cause Israel to keep his commandments and reign and rule with him over the nations, to be a light of salvation to the Gentiles (Ezekiel 36:24-28 Revelation 20:4 Matthew 5:14).

2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Peter, in the above verses, states that Jesus is both Lord and Christ. Jesus rose from the dead declaring that he is the Son of God (Romans 1:4).

In verse 38 below, Peter shows that Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, the Saviour of Israel, who alone can forgive the sins of the nation of Israel.

2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

Peter is only offering the above promises of remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost to repentant Israel and those Gentiles who would come to God thru Israel.

2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

The believers were baptized according to the commandment of the Davidic covenant announced by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:2); the cleansing for the remission of sins; the recognition of the name,authority, and the idenity of Jesus. They were added to them, the church of the Kingdom to come, not the body of Christ.

2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

They sold all they had and provided to all according to the commandment to Israel by Jesus in Matthew 13:46 and Matthew 19:21.

2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

They were in one accord as well. The church here is not the body of Christ. The church here are the believers in Christ who were promised entrance into the kingdom on earth. The kingdom which is postponed and interrupted by our Dispensation of Grace.
Luke 17:21, that is the none observable kingdom Luke 17:20, that has always existed John 18:36, and hid from carnal earthly minds that takes spiritual allegory literally, 1 Corinthians 3:16, 2 Corinthians 13:5, Acts 17:24, Hebrews 3:6, Colossians 1:27, Ezekiel 7:22
Paul leaves a hint in plain sight as to the OT being symbolic allegories Galatians 4:24, Psalms 78 reveals Israel history is a parable past down to each generation, a dark spiritual dream in the mind of God, awake is the battle cry Psalms 78:65, to Christ asleep in mans dark conscience, Ephesians 5:14, let the weak say I AM strong and boldly claim inheritance in God's kingdom that was set aside to become man Galatians 4:1. Proverbs 1:6,, 25:2, Ezekiel 17:2.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
[h=2]THE CHURCH DID NOT START AT PENTECOST[/h]
In the above verses it should be noted that Peter was not addressing the newly formed church, the Body of Christ, but rather, Israel only.
A church started at Pentecost

Saul\Paul persecuted that church

Act 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
Act 8:2 And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.
Act 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.

Saul\Paul destroyed that church

Gal 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

then Paul started a church ...
 

DougE

Well-known member
A church started at Pentecost

Saul\Paul persecuted that church

Act 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
Act 8:2 And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.
Act 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.

Saul\Paul destroyed that church

Gal 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

then Paul started a church ...

Hello
There are 3 churches.

The church in the wilderness which consisted of the assembly of Israel (Acts 7:38).

The church of God you cited in Galatians 1:13 that Paul persecuted. These were believers in Christ. Those who believed that Jesus was Messiah, the Son of God. They were looking for the promised kingdom on earth.

The body of Christ was revealed to Paul by Jesus. This is the present day church.
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
from gotquestions.org

The church began on the Day of Pentecost, fifty days after the Passover when Jesus died and rose again. The word translated “church” comes from two Greek words that together mean “called out from the world for God.” The word is used throughout the Bible to refer to all those who have been born again (John 3:3) through faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus (Romans 10:9–10). The word church, when used to reference all believers everywhere, is synonymous with the term Body of Christ (Ephesians 1:22–23; Colossians 1:18).

The word church first appears in Matthew 16 when Jesus tells Peter, “On this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.” (verse 18). The “rock” here is the statement Peter had made, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God” (verse 16). That truth about Jesus is the bedrock of the church that has flourished for over two thousand years. Everyone who makes that truth the foundation of his or her own life becomes a member of Jesus’ church (Acts 16:31).

Jesus’ words, “I will build my church,” were a foretelling of what was about to happen when He sent the Holy Spirit to indwell believers (John 15:26–27; 16:13). Jesus still had to undergo the cross and experience the resurrection. Although the disciples understood in part, the fulfillment of all Jesus had come to do had not yet been accomplished. After His resurrection Jesus would not allow His followers to begin the work He had given them, to make disciples of all nations (Matthew 28:19–20), until the Holy Spirit had come (Acts 1:4–5).

The book of Acts details the beginning of the church and its miraculous spread through the power of the Holy Spirit. Ten days after Jesus ascended back into heaven (Acts 1:9), the Holy Spirit was poured out upon 120 of Jesus’ followers who waited and prayed (Acts 1:15; 2:1–4). The same disciples who had quaked in fear of being identified with Jesus (Mark 14:30, 50) were suddenly empowered to boldly proclaim the gospel of the risen Messiah, validating their message with miraculous signs and wonders (Acts 2:4, 38–41; 3:6–7; 8:7). Thousands of Jews from all parts of the world were in Jerusalem for the Feast of Pentecost. They heard the gospel in their own languages (Acts 2:5–8), and many believed (Acts 2:41; 4:4). Those who were saved were baptized, adding daily to the church. When persecution broke out, the believers scattered, taking the gospel message with them, and the church spread like wildfire to all parts of the known earth (Acts 8:4; 11:19–21).

The start of the church involved Jews in Jerusalem, but the church soon spread to other people groups. The Samaritans were evangelized by Philip in Acts 8. In Acts 10, God gave Peter a vision that helped him understand that the message of salvation was not limited to the Jews but open to anyone who believed (Acts 10:34–35, 45). The salvation of the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:26–39) and the Italian centurion Cornelius (Acts 10) convinced the Jewish believers that God’s church was broader than they had imagined. The miraculous calling of Paul on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:1–19) set the stage for an even greater spread of the gospel to the Gentiles (Romans 15:16; 1 Timothy 2:7).

Jesus’ prophetic words to Peter before the crucifixion have proved true. Though persecution and “the gates of Hades” have fought against it, the church only grows stronger. Revelation 7:9 provides a glimpse of the church as God designed it to be: “After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb.” The church that Jesus began will continue until the day He comes for us (John 14:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16–17) and we are united with Him forever as His bride (Ephesians 5:27; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Revelation 19:7).
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
Hello
There are 3 churches.

The church in the wilderness which consisted of the assembly of Israel (Acts 7:38).

The church of God you cited in Galatians 1:13 that Paul persecuted. These were believers in Christ. Those who believed that Jesus was Messiah, the Son of God. They were looking for the promised kingdom on earth.

The body of Christ was revealed to Paul by Jesus. This is the present day church.

so the current church didn't start at Pentecost,
whats the difference between that church and our current church?
 

DougE

Well-known member
so the current church didn't start at Pentecost,
whats the difference between that church and our current church?

Hello
The church of God is in Christ. They believed that Jesus is Messiah and the Son of God. They are promised the land and an earthly kingdom along with the old testament saints such as Abraham (although the order of resurrections are different).

The body of Christ (the current church) believed the gospel of Christ as preached by Paul and have a position in the heavenly places of the kingdom of God.
 

turbosixx

New member
2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

Jesus, after his resurrection, spoke unto the twelve apostles of the kingdom of God (Acts 1:3). The aspect of the kingdom of God Jesus spoke of was the kingdom of the Davidic covenant; the kingdom promised Israel to reign with Christ on earth (1 Chronicles 17:12 Luke 1:32). The apostles wanted to know if Jesus was about to restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6).

Jesus commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which was the Holy Ghost (Acts 1:5).

2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

The apostles, filled with the Holy Ghost, began to speak in tongues.

2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Speaking in tongues, as can clearly be seen in verse 6, is speaking in the hearers language. Also in verses 8 and 11, tongues involves the ability given the apostles to speak and be heard in a specific language, not of their own. It was a sign given them to substantiate their ministry.

Peter, standing with the eleven, spoke in the following verse:

2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Pentecost and the filling of the Holy Ghost was prophesied by Joel. This was a fulfillment of prophecy in Joel 2:28-32. This prophecy was directed to Israel, and those present were for the most part Jews.

2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

In the above verses it should be noted that Peter was not addressing the newly formed church, the Body of Christ, but rather, Israel only. Peter preached Jesus as Christ and his resurrection, the gospel of the Circumcision (Galatians 2:7). The resurrection of Jesus Christ would assure the fulfillment of the future promised kingdom on earth, in which, he was raised from the dead to sit on the throne of David. The Holy Spirit will cause Israel to keep his commandments and reign and rule with him over the nations, to be a light of salvation to the Gentiles (Ezekiel 36:24-28 Revelation 20:4 Matthew 5:14).

2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Peter, in the above verses, states that Jesus is both Lord and Christ. Jesus rose from the dead declaring that he is the Son of God (Romans 1:4).

In verse 38 below, Peter shows that Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, the Saviour of Israel, who alone can forgive the sins of the nation of Israel.

2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

Peter is only offering the above promises of remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost to repentant Israel and those Gentiles who would come to God thru Israel.

2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

The believers were baptized according to the commandment of the Davidic covenant announced by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:2); the cleansing for the remission of sins; the recognition of the name,authority, and the idenity of Jesus. They were added to them, the church of the Kingdom to come, not the body of Christ.

2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

They sold all they had and provided to all according to the commandment to Israel by Jesus in Matthew 13:46 and Matthew 19:21.

2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

They were in one accord as well. The church here is not the body of Christ. The church here are the believers in Christ who were promised entrance into the kingdom on earth. The kingdom which is postponed and interrupted by our Dispensation of Grace.

When/where did the church first start?
 

turbosixx

New member
Saul\Paul persecuted that church

Paul referred to the church he persecuted as the Way.
Acts 9:2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.

When Paul was making his defense before the Jews he said he persecuted this Way. The Way he was on trial for. He was now on the other side being persecuted by the Jews.
Acts 22:4 I persecuted this Way to the death, binding and delivering to prison both men and women,

Before Felix Paul says he worships God according to the Way.
Acts 24:14 But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets,

Paul was persecuting the body of Christ.
Acts 9:5 And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.
 
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DougE

Well-known member
When/where did the church first start?

Hello
There are 3 churches
The church in the wilderness which is the assembly of Israel Acts 7:38
The church of God which Paul persecuted and was comprised of believers in Christ who believed on Jesus as Messiah, Son of God.
The church, the body of Christ was revealed by Christ to Paul after his conversion in Acts 9.
 

turbosixx

New member
Hello
There are 3 churches
The church in the wilderness which is the assembly of Israel Acts 7:38
The church of God which Paul persecuted and was comprised of believers in Christ who believed on Jesus as Messiah, Son of God.
The church, the body of Christ was revealed by Christ to Paul after his conversion in Acts 9.

When was this church established?
Matt. 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Do you not believe this?
believers in Christ who believed on Jesus as Messiah, Son of God
 

Idolater

"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Peter isn't that rock. Jesus is. The Church is built upon Christ.
The Catholic Church also believes /teaches that St. Peter's confession in Matthew 16:16 KJV is the rock also. It still doesn't negate that Peter's the rock, in fact named the rock, by the Lord the Rock John 1:42 KJV.
 

turbosixx

New member
The Catholic Church also believes /teaches that St. Peter's confession in Matthew 16:16 KJV is the rock also. It still doesn't negate that Peter's the rock, in fact named the rock, by the Lord the Rock John 1:42 KJV.

Yes, Peter's statement that Jesus is the Christ is the rock. Jesus purchased the church with His blood, Acts 20:28. I suggest to you Peter is not the rock. If you look at the Greek text, it's petra feminine. A man's name is masculine, Petros, so it could not be Peter.
 

Idolater

"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Yes, Peter's statement that Jesus is the Christ is the rock.
And Christ is the Rock, and Peter (lit. "rock") is the rock also.
I suggest to you Peter is not the rock.
I have zero reason to believe that Peter (lit. "rock") is not the rock.
If you look at the Greek text, it's petra feminine. A man's name is masculine, Petros, so it could not be Peter.
I have zero reason to think that the conversation between Peter and Christ recorded in Matthew 16 occurred in Greek. In Aramaic, there is no gender conflict between 'kepa' /'keppa' /'kepha' /"cephas" (Gr.) referring to Peter, and to a rock.

When a conversation that occurred in Aramaic is translated into a language like Greek where the Greek word for 'rock' is feminine, and the same word is given to a man (Peter) as his regnal name, then it is only reasonable to change the gender of the feminine word to masculine.

And additionally, all history reports that the whole Church always believed, until the 1500s, that Matthew 16:18 KJV referred to Peter being the rock upon which the Lord would build His Church. I have zero reason to think that the whole Church got it wrong from the Apostolic era onward, for 15 centuries, and it took a cluster of Protestant rebels to set the record straight.
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
From Gotquestions.org

The church began on the Day of Pentecost, fifty days after the Passover when Jesus died and rose again. The word translated “church” comes from two Greek words that together mean “called out from the world for God.” The word is used throughout the Bible to refer to all those who have been born again (John 3:3) through faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus (Romans 10:9–10). The word church, when used to reference all believers everywhere, is synonymous with the term Body of Christ (Ephesians 1:22–23; Colossians 1:18).

The word church first appears in Matthew 16 when Jesus tells Peter, “On this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.” (verse 18). The “rock” here is the statement Peter had made, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God” (verse 16). That truth about Jesus is the bedrock of the church that has flourished for over two thousand years. Everyone who makes that truth the foundation of his or her own life becomes a member of Jesus’ church (Acts 16:31).

Jesus’ words, “I will build my church,” were a foretelling of what was about to happen when He sent the Holy Spirit to indwell believers (John 15:26–27; 16:13). Jesus still had to undergo the cross and experience the resurrection. Although the disciples understood in part, the fulfillment of all Jesus had come to do had not yet been accomplished. After His resurrection Jesus would not allow His followers to begin the work He had given them, to make disciples of all nations (Matthew 28:19–20), until the Holy Spirit had come (Acts 1:4–5).

The book of Acts details the beginning of the church and its miraculous spread through the power of the Holy Spirit. Ten days after Jesus ascended back into heaven (Acts 1:9), the Holy Spirit was poured out upon 120 of Jesus’ followers who waited and prayed (Acts 1:15; 2:1–4). The same disciples who had quaked in fear of being identified with Jesus (Mark 14:30, 50) were suddenly empowered to boldly proclaim the gospel of the risen Messiah, validating their message with miraculous signs and wonders (Acts 2:4, 38–41; 3:6–7; 8:7). Thousands of Jews from all parts of the world were in Jerusalem for the Feast of Pentecost. They heard the gospel in their own languages (Acts 2:5–8), and many believed (Acts 2:41; 4:4). Those who were saved were baptized, adding daily to the church. When persecution broke out, the believers scattered, taking the gospel message with them, and the church spread like wildfire to all parts of the known earth (Acts 8:4; 11:19–21).

The start of the church involved Jews in Jerusalem, but the church soon spread to other people groups. The Samaritans were evangelized by Philip in Acts 8. In Acts 10, God gave Peter a vision that helped him understand that the message of salvation was not limited to the Jews but open to anyone who believed (Acts 10:34–35, 45). The salvation of the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:26–39) and the Italian centurion Cornelius (Acts 10) convinced the Jewish believers that God’s church was broader than they had imagined. The miraculous calling of Paul on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:1–19) set the stage for an even greater spread of the gospel to the Gentiles (Romans 15:16; 1 Timothy 2:7).

Jesus’ prophetic words to Peter before the crucifixion have proved true. Though persecution and “the gates of Hades” have fought against it, the church only grows stronger. Revelation 7:9 provides a glimpse of the church as God designed it to be: “After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb.” The church that Jesus began will continue until the day He comes for us (John 14:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16–17) and we are united with Him forever as His bride (Ephesians 5:27; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Revelation 19:7).
 

DougE

Well-known member
From Gotquestions.org

The church began on the Day of Pentecost, fifty days after the Passover when Jesus died and rose again. The word translated “church” comes from two Greek words that together mean “called out from the world for God.” The word is used throughout the Bible to refer to all those who have been born again (John 3:3) through faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus (Romans 10:9–10). The word church, when used to reference all believers everywhere, is synonymous with the term Body of Christ (Ephesians 1:22–23; Colossians 1:18).

The word church first appears in Matthew 16 when Jesus tells Peter, “On this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.” (verse 18). The “rock” here is the statement Peter had made, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God” (verse 16). That truth about Jesus is the bedrock of the church that has flourished for over two thousand years. Everyone who makes that truth the foundation of his or her own life becomes a member of Jesus’ church (Acts 16:31).

Jesus’ words, “I will build my church,” were a foretelling of what was about to happen when He sent the Holy Spirit to indwell believers (John 15:26–27; 16:13). Jesus still had to undergo the cross and experience the resurrection. Although the disciples understood in part, the fulfillment of all Jesus had come to do had not yet been accomplished. After His resurrection Jesus would not allow His followers to begin the work He had given them, to make disciples of all nations (Matthew 28:19–20), until the Holy Spirit had come (Acts 1:4–5).

The book of Acts details the beginning of the church and its miraculous spread through the power of the Holy Spirit. Ten days after Jesus ascended back into heaven (Acts 1:9), the Holy Spirit was poured out upon 120 of Jesus’ followers who waited and prayed (Acts 1:15; 2:1–4). The same disciples who had quaked in fear of being identified with Jesus (Mark 14:30, 50) were suddenly empowered to boldly proclaim the gospel of the risen Messiah, validating their message with miraculous signs and wonders (Acts 2:4, 38–41; 3:6–7; 8:7). Thousands of Jews from all parts of the world were in Jerusalem for the Feast of Pentecost. They heard the gospel in their own languages (Acts 2:5–8), and many believed (Acts 2:41; 4:4). Those who were saved were baptized, adding daily to the church. When persecution broke out, the believers scattered, taking the gospel message with them, and the church spread like wildfire to all parts of the known earth (Acts 8:4; 11:19–21).

The start of the church involved Jews in Jerusalem, but the church soon spread to other people groups. The Samaritans were evangelized by Philip in Acts 8. In Acts 10, God gave Peter a vision that helped him understand that the message of salvation was not limited to the Jews but open to anyone who believed (Acts 10:34–35, 45). The salvation of the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:26–39) and the Italian centurion Cornelius (Acts 10) convinced the Jewish believers that God’s church was broader than they had imagined. The miraculous calling of Paul on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:1–19) set the stage for an even greater spread of the gospel to the Gentiles (Romans 15:16; 1 Timothy 2:7).

Jesus’ prophetic words to Peter before the crucifixion have proved true. Though persecution and “the gates of Hades” have fought against it, the church only grows stronger. Revelation 7:9 provides a glimpse of the church as God designed it to be: “After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb.” The church that Jesus began will continue until the day He comes for us (John 14:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16–17) and we are united with Him forever as His bride (Ephesians 5:27; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Revelation 19:7).

Hello
There are 3 churches.

The first is the church in the wilderness, the assembly of Israel under Moses (Acts 7:38).

The second is the church of God which was comprised of those in Christ who believed on his name, that he is Messiah, the Son of God (John 20:31). Paul persecuted this church (Galatians 1:13).

The third is the body of Christ only revealed in Paul's epistles which he received by revelation of Christ (Galatians 1:12).
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
Paul referred to the church he persecuted as the Way.
Acts 9:2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.

When Paul was making his defense before the Jews he said he persecuted this Way. The Way he was on trial for. He was now on the other side being persecuted by the Jews.
Acts 22:4 I persecuted this Way to the death, binding and delivering to prison both men and women,

Before Felix Paul says he worships God according to the Way.
Acts 24:14 But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets,

Paul was persecuting the body of Christ.
Acts 9:5 And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.

Jer 18:9 And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it,
Jer 18:10 and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had intended to do to it.

Luk 13:7 And he said to the vinedresser, 'Look, for three years now I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and I find none. Cut it down. Why should it use up the ground?'
Luk 13:8 And he answered him, 'Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and put on manure.
Luk 13:9 Then if it should bear fruit next year, well and good; but if not, you can cut it down.'"

Gal 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

did all the Jews turn to Jesus?
or were the Jews cut off Luk 13:9 ?
Rom 11:15,25
did Jesus turn to the gentiles ?

Gal_2:7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised

different branches different church same root.
 

turbosixx

New member
I have zero reason to think that the conversation between Peter and Christ recorded in Matthew 16 occurred in Greek.
The conversation might not have been in Greek but the conversation and the writing of that conversation were years apart. A conservative estimate would be 17 years.

When a conversation that occurred in Aramaic is translated into a language like Greek where the Greek word for 'rock' is feminine, and the same word is given to a man (Peter) as his regnal name, then it is only reasonable to change the gender of the feminine word to masculine.
Who do you believe wrote the NT, HS or man?

Let's suppose Peter is the rock. Is this the kind of rock you want Christ's church to be built on?

74 Then he began to invoke a curse on himself and to swear, “I do not know the man.” And immediately the rooster crowed. 75 And Peter remembered the saying of Jesus, “Before the rooster crows, you will deny me three times.” And he went out and wept bitterly.
NOT A ROCK

11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.
NOT A ROCK

I have zero reason to think that the whole Church got it wrong from the Apostolic era onward, for 15 centuries,
Would you say the church is perfect or has deviated from the truth?
 
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