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beloved57
January 10th, 2010, 10:25 AM
Romans 1:6

Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

Under the New Covenant, not all men and women are the called of Jesus Christ. This called should not be confused with the called in Matt 22:14

14For many are called, but few are chosen.

There is a dispensational difference here, for under the Old Covenant Israel as a nation was called, and this is in reference to the nation as the context will tell, just read the passage leading up to that verse and that will be seen..

But in the NT post cross, the called are those that are the called of Jesus Christ, like Saul who became paul was called in Acts 9:1-6

So when writing His epistles and addressing them as the called, He has his personal experience to verify the calling he has in mind..

The called of Jesus Christ is not for all men, but for those men and women whom Jesus Christ was made sin for, and those whom His righteousness has been reckoned unto their account..

It is a distinct group of people, separated from all other peoples in the world..

It is a call that though it is to a distinct people, its inclusive of both jew and gentile per Rom 9:23-24

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

It is the call to whom the eternal inheritance belongeth Heb 9:15

15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Here are more scriptures pointing out this distinguished group, the called:

1 Cor 1:23-24,26-28

23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness

24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Notice " but unto them which are called" in contrast to the stumbling jews and the worldly wise greeks"

But God has chosen ones [ the called] in both groups..

26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

The called are the same here as the chosen..

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

The called: Rom 8:29-30

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Not all are of the called of Jesus Christ, but only those given to Him for His seed, and they in due time are called into fellowship with Him.. 1 Cor 1:1,2,9

1Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

This calling proceeds from the Faithfulness of God unto the chosen race, that seed whom Jesus died for..

Isa 53:10

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Squeaky
January 10th, 2010, 11:07 AM
WHO IS CALLED (HUMBLE)
Matt 11:25
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, "I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes.
1 Cor 1:26-28
26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;
28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,
Matt 22:2-14
2 "The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son,
3 "and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come.
4 "Again, he sent out other servants, saying, 'Tell those who are invited, "See, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattle are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the wedding."'
5 "But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his business.
6 "And the rest seized his servants, treated them spitefully, and killed them.
7 "But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 "Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy.
9 'Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.'
10 "So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests.
11 "But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment.
12 "So he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless.
13 "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."
Luke 14:12-24
12 Then He also said to him who invited Him, "When you give a dinner or a supper, do not ask your friends, your brothers, your relatives, nor rich neighbors, lest they also invite you back, and you be repaid.
13 "But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind.
14 "And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you; for you shall be repaid at the resurrection of the just."
15 Now when one of those who sat at the table with Him heard these things, he said to Him, "Blessed is he who shall eat bread in the kingdom of God!"
16 Then He said to him, "A certain man gave a great supper and invited many,
17 "and sent his servant at supper time to say to those who were invited, 'Come, for all things are now ready.'
18 "But they all with one accord began to make excuses. The first said to him, 'I have bought a piece of ground, and I must go and see it. I ask you to have me excused.'
19 "And another said, 'I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I am going to test them. I ask you to have me excused.'
20 "Still another said, 'I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.'
21 "So that servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house, being angry, said to his servant, 'Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in here the poor and the maimed and the lame and the blind.'
22 "And the servant said, 'Master, it is done as you commanded, and still there is room.'
23 "Then the master said to the servant, 'Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
24 'For I say to you that none of those men who were invited shall taste my supper.'"
Matt 15:13-14
13 But He answered and said, "Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted.
14 "Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch."
Rev 3:17-18
17 "Because you say, 'I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing'-- and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked--
18 "I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.
James 1:9-10
9 Let the lowly brother glory in his exaltation,
10 but the rich in his humiliation, because as a flower of the field he will pass away.
James 1:11
11 For no sooner has the sun risen with a burning heat than it withers the grass; its flower falls, and its beautiful appearance perishes. So the rich man also will fade away in his pursuits.
James 2:5-7
5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?
6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts?
7 Do they not blaspheme that noble name by which you are called?
Rom 11:29
29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Phil 3:12-17
12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.
13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead,
14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you.
16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.
17 Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern.
(NKJ)

XXX Its pretty obvious that God has only called the poor, weak, downtroddened. Then why are some rich people in the churches? They must have called themselves. Or some preachers were after their money, and the preacher called them.

Nick M
January 10th, 2010, 11:10 AM
When God called beloved, he hung up after finding out it was the wrong number.

Squeaky
January 10th, 2010, 01:45 PM
When God called beloved, he hung up after finding out it was the wrong number.

I Said
I'm sure glad your not Spirit led. Because then you would actually know what we are talking about.

Nick M
January 10th, 2010, 11:23 PM
I Said
I'm sure glad I'm an idiot.

:loser:

beloved57
February 24th, 2010, 12:21 AM
The efficacious call !


The call to the predestined or chosen ones, is a efficacious call from God that translates one out of darkness into the marvelous light..

1 Pet 2:9

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

This was not a mere opportunity, or something made available to mens choice or decision, but this was an actual call from heaven that translated or passed one from death to life..

Col 1:13

13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

The Translation and the efficacious call are the same thing

Jn 5:24

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


This call is actually regeneration or new birth whereby one is made a new creature in Christ..

So God actually calls one out of one realm [ darkness and the dominion of Satan] and calls them into another realm, [ The kingdom of His dear Son which is light]

beloved57
February 25th, 2010, 08:36 AM
The efficacious call is a call by God or Christ that produces instant obedience, for example Abraham in Gen 12:1-4

1Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

4So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

The writer of Hebrews says of this occurrence Heb 11:8

8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

This is because the efficacious call effects gospel obedience..

The efficacious call is Illustrated with Saul into Paul Acts 9:1-6

1And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

2And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

3And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

4And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

6And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Paul says this incident was His call from God, He was called by Gods Grace Gal 1:15

But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

It was the effectual working of His power Eph 3:7

Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

BTW, this is the True definition of The efficacious call to all the saints, its by the effectual working of Gods power..

Thats why Abraham obeyed also !

Again its seen in the calling of Zacchaeus Lk 19:1-9

1And Jesus entered and passed through Jericho.

2And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.

3And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature.

4And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way.

5And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.

6And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.

7And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.

8And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord: Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

9And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

You see that, His immediate obedience was typical of His Father Abraham, because He too was the recipient [ as all the spiritual seed of Abraham are] of a efficacious call of Grace..

The responding to this call is not left up to the freewill of men to either obey or not, to submit or not, but it [ the call] makes them willing in the day of His Power Ps 110:3


3Thy people [the seed of Abraham] shall be willing in the day of thy power,

That is their willingness is the effect of Gods power, Gods efficacious call..

Adoration
February 25th, 2010, 09:10 AM
romans 1:6

Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

Under the New Covenant, not all men and women are the called of Jesus christ.


Even though you distort the bible, and you deny God's love, mercy and justice, he still loves you.

Here's how we know you are wrong:

1 Tim 2:3,4
This is good, and pleases God our Savior,who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.


John 3:17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.


Ezekiel 18:32 "For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies," declares the Lord GOD. "Therefore, repent and live."

John 12:32
32But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself.”

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.


Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all. Rom. 5:18


For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all.
Rom 11:32

beloved57
February 25th, 2010, 09:19 AM
Even though you distort the bible, and you deny God's love, mercy and justice, he still loves you.

Here's how we know you are wrong:

1 Tim 2:3,4
This is good, and pleases God our Savior,who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.


John 3:17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.


Ezekiel 18:32 "For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies," declares the Lord GOD. "Therefore, repent and live."

John 12:32
32But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself.”

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.


Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all. Rom. 5:18


For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all.
Rom 11:32

All the NT references belong to the elect, and the OT Ezekiel belong to the nation of Israel..

And you reject the Truth..

Adoration
February 25th, 2010, 09:21 AM
All the NT references belong to the elect, and the OT Ezekiel belong to the nation of Israel..

And you reject the Truth..

Your lies about scripture are dangerous for your soul.

Read the bible and believe it. Don't decide what is says before you read it.

YOU will be judged for your actions.

Repent, pick up your cross, then follow Jesus.

beloved57
February 25th, 2010, 09:59 AM
ador:


Your lies about scripture are dangerous for your soul.

You are the one perverting scripture, and its Gods will that you do so.. I am glad I am not you..

Adoration
February 25th, 2010, 10:06 AM
ador:



You are the one perverting scripture, and its Gods will that you do so.. I am glad I am not you..




You are making a big mistake if you believe you are special and exempt from judgment.

ALL MEN will be judged. Pray for understanding.

beloved57
February 25th, 2010, 10:13 AM
ador:


You are making a big mistake if you believe you are special and exempt from judgment.

Who said anything about being exempt from Judgment ? All the elect are Judged in this world, in order not to be condemned with the non elect world in the day of Judgment..

1 cor 11:

32But when we [The called of the Lord see 1 cor 1] are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Your Judgment is yet to come..

Adoration
February 25th, 2010, 10:18 AM
ador:



Who said anything about being exempt from Judgment ? All the elect are Judged in this world, in order not to be condemned with the non elect world in the day of Judgment..

1 cor 11:

32But when we [The called of the Lord see 1 cor 1] are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.



..

Once again you quote scripture out of context in order to change the meaning.
The Truth:

28A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment. 32When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.


Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.


What comes first, reaping or sowing?

beloved57
February 25th, 2010, 08:32 PM
ador:


Once again you quote scripture out of context in order to change the meaning.
The Truth:

You reject the Truth and avoid it..

beloved57
March 6th, 2010, 10:30 AM
2 Tim 1:9

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

And Gal 1:15

But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

When elect sinners are called by Grace, or with a Holy calling there is in them a new nature with spiritual powers or abilities to hear, see, and understand spiritual things, of which the mere natural man cannot..

1 Cor 2:14

14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned..

Remember, the only fruitful hearer in the parable was the one who understood the word..because it was cast upon good ground Matt 13:23

23But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

In the effectual call they receive the spirit of adoption whereby the cry Abba Father, they are now capable of receiving spiritual instruction..however no spiritual instruction i.e believe or repent can be complied to without first having a new spiritual existence or being..and that is what the effectual call provides for the elect of God..

Squeaky
March 8th, 2010, 07:10 AM
2 tim 1:9

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

And gal 1:15

But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

When elect sinners are called by Grace, or with a Holy calling there is in them a new nature with spiritual powers or abilities to hear, see, and understand spiritual things, of which the mere natural man cannot..

1 cor 2:

14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned..

Remember, the only fruitful hearer in the parable was the one who understood the word..because it was cast upon good ground Matt 13:

23But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

In the effectual call they receive the spirit of adoption whereby the cry Abba Father, they are now capable of receiving spiritual instruction..however no spiritual instruction i.e believe or repent can be complied to without first having a new spiritual existence or being..and that is what the effectual call provides for the elect of God..

I said
Its not automatic. One has to grow in the Spirit. Some will be disqualified, some will fall short, some will fall from grace. One must grow, and go through the milk understanding, and then the meat understanding. And then come to the revelations of Jesus Christ that Paul spoke of.
GROW IN THE SPIRIT KNOWLEDGE

Heb 2:1
1 Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away.
Mark 4:24-25
24 Then He said to them, "Take heed what you hear. With the same measure you use, it will be measured to you; and to you who hear, more will be given.
25 "For whoever has, to him more will be given; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him."
Eph 3:16
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
1 Tim 4:15
15 Meditate on these things; give yourself entirely to them, that your progress may be evident to all.
Gal 2:14
14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?
Gal 2:13
13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.
Rom 1:18
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
Rev 3:15-16
15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot.
16 "So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
2 Tim 1:7
7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.
John 17:17-18
17 "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
18 "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
1 Cor 2:4-8
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory,
8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Rom 6:19
19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
Matt 4:4
4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'"
Matt 16:5-11
5 Now when His disciples had come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread.
6 Then Jesus said to them, "Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees."
7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, "It is because we have taken no bread."
8 But Jesus, being aware of it, said to them, "O you of little faith, why do you reason among yourselves because you have brought no bread?
9 "Do you not yet understand, or remember the five loaves of the five thousand and how many baskets you took up?
10 "Nor the seven loaves of the four thousand and how many large baskets you took up?
11 "How is it you do not understand that I did not speak to you concerning bread?-- but to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees."
Matt 16:12
12 Then they understood that He did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
1 Cor 1:20-21
20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
I Jn 1:10
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
I Jn 2:4
4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
John 7:18
18 "He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him.
John 3:34
34 "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.
John 3:31
31 "He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all.
John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
2 Cor 5:5
5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
John 12:48
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
Luke 10:16
16 "He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me."
Matt 24:11-13
11 "Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.
12 "And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.
13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
2 Tim 3:13-17
13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.
14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them,
15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
John 15:1-10
1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
3 "You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4 "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 "If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.
8 "By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.
9 "As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love.
10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
(NKJ)
xxx To grow in the Spirit(verses) is to have more verses written in your conscience(book of beliefs). This is why it says to study to show thyself approved. When you put verses in your book of beliefs, you will be tested on them verses. If you pass the test the verses will stay, if you fail the test satan will be allowed to take them verses out of your book of beliefs. This is why we need to hunger and thirst after righteousness. And read daily.

Matt 13:19
19 "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside.
(NKJ)

beloved57
March 8th, 2010, 10:50 AM
Gal 1:15

But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

This calling is also the same as drawing..i.e where we read Jn 6:44

44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The word for draw here is helkō:

metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

And Jesus uses it metaphorically to describe what the effectual call of God does and accomplishes within the Chosen..

Squeaky
March 8th, 2010, 07:40 PM
gal 1:15

But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

This calling is also the same as drawing..i.e where we read jn 6:

44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The word for draw here is helkō:

metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

And Jesus uses it metaphorically to describe what the effectual call of God does and accomplishes within the chosen..

I said
i noticed you mix some words together in your replies which leaves people a bit confuses. Do you know the difference between called and chosen????

beloved57
March 9th, 2010, 02:51 AM
So it is quite appropiate to say that, no man can come to Jesus christ unless inwardly called.. Its an inward hearing of the voice of God or voice of Jesus christ..

Squeaky
March 9th, 2010, 11:07 AM
So it is quite appropiate to say that, no man can come to Jesus christ unless inwardly called.. Its an inward hearing of the voice of God or voice of Jesus christ..


I said
You will never hear Gods voice or Jesus' voice to be called or chosen.
You will hear from your guardian angel carnal thoughts. Mostly it will be fear.

John 6:44
44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
(NKJ)

Luke 1:50
50 And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
(NKJ)

Matt 10:28
28 "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
(NKJ)

Luke 12:5
5 "But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!
(NKJ)

Now if God didnt call someone they will have other reasons for getting into scripture.

Matt 15:13-14
13 But He answered and said, "Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted.
14 "Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch."
(NKJ)

beloved57
April 19th, 2010, 08:53 AM
2 Tim 1:9-10

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

10But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel

He hath called us [ the elect] with a Holy calling, for why is it called a Holy Calling ? Because it comes from the Holy , Sovereign God Himself to a Holy set apart Gospel ready people ! It is Holy because it is efficient to secure the accomplishment of the purpose and grace of God Rom 8:29-30

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

A ineffectual call which fails to secure Gospel obedience to the Faith [Rom 16:26& Rom 15:18] must be defective and not Holy, nor perfect. God's Holy call exhibits His power, for He merely speaks the word and it stands fast, for He commands and it is done, He says, 'Let there be light, and there is Light.

2 Cor 4:6

6For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

beloved57
April 25th, 2010, 10:46 PM
That God calls only a remnant is intimated in Joel 2:32

32And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

cp Acts 2:38-39

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

These scriptures indicate that God does not call all to obtain eternal salvation, but only His elect, the spiritual seed of Abraham, out of both Jew and Gentile Rom 9:23-24

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

14400
April 25th, 2010, 11:25 PM
All the NT references belong to the elect, and the OT Ezekiel belong to the nation of Israel..

And you reject the Truth..



Beloved,

your despised compromiser would like for you to know that the whole of this thread from the topic you posted to the proofs that you painfully studied out is sufficient and faithful to the Lords DOCTRINE, so no worries...


HOWEVER, you still draw an assumption that EZEKIEL 36 pertains to NATIONAL ISRAEL, and somehow can be dismissed as irrelevant as a testimony and witness.

You are way off, and EZEKIEL 36 gives us a PERFECT EXAMPLE or ILLUSTRATION of the workings of SALVATION in an elect individuals life.

Till you further study it out and till you harmonize it completely with the entire Bible, reserve your wisdom and present GOD'S as you faithfully do most times.


.

14400
April 25th, 2010, 11:34 PM
That God calls only a remnant is intimated in Joel 2:

32And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

cp acts 2:

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

These scriptures indicate that God does not call all to obtain eternal salvation, but only His elect, the spiritual seed of Abraham, out of both Jew and Gentile rom 9:

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?



This proves perfectly;


MATTHEW 7:13-14

13.) Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14.) Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


We see God telling us that MANY go to DESTRUCTION in verse 13.

In VERSE 14 we see FEW are led unto LIFE.


The FEW represent a REMNANT.

HARMONY.


peace

beloved57
April 26th, 2010, 06:09 PM
14400:


HOWEVER, you still draw an assumption that EZEKIEL 36 pertains to NATIONAL ISRAEL

Where did I say that ? Please show me the post ?

14400
April 27th, 2010, 10:37 PM
All the NT references belong to the elect, and the OT Ezekiel belong to the nation of Israel..

And you reject the Truth..



When you said;

""""and the OT Ezekiel belong to the nation of Israel.."""


Ezekiel 36 as well as for all other scripture within the entire Bible remains relevant, and is NOT intended for a NATION nor TOWARDS any NATION.

The ENTIRE BIBLE is the WORD OF GOD, FROM HIS VERY MOUTH, and each word is intended for the elect unto edification and increased knowledge...TIME AND JUDGMENT.

The SPIRIT OF PROPHECY is every WORD in the entire BIBLE.



That was the point I was making.




peace

beloved57
April 27th, 2010, 11:06 PM
When you said;

""""and the OT Ezekiel belong to the nation of Israel.."""


Ezekiel 36 as well as for all other scripture within the entire Bible remains relevant, and is NOT intended for a NATION nor TOWARDS any NATION.

The ENTIRE BIBLE is the WORD OF GOD, FROM HIS VERY MOUTH, and each word is intended for the elect unto edification and increased knowledge...TIME AND JUDGMENT.

The SPIRIT OF PROPHECY is every WORD in the entire BIBLE.



That was the point I was making.




peace

If I said that, it was in the context of when in ezk we read things like this ezk 18:31

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

ezk 33:11

Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Those words are directed towards Israel Nationally under National Covenant, and death was National Covenant death, of which they eventually did suffer, but, God was not ready at that time for that National Covenant to expire, because her purpose, of being was not fully fulfilled until the Messiah was born.

That is why God said, I have no desire for the death of the wicked, meaning, He desired not the death of that nation at so early of a date, The Messiah must be born under that National Covenant under the Law.

beloved57
June 15th, 2010, 07:48 AM
Gal 1:

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

An aspect of salvation by grace is to be called by Grace, and as Paul here, all the election of grace [ though by nature children of wrath as others] have been separated from their mother's womb, and as Paul, eventually called by His Grace, His here would probably be the Lord Jesus Christ.

The conversion experience of Paul on the damascus road was recored for us [ the elect] as an example or pattern on how we are converted to Christ, called by His grace to believe on Jesus Christ.

1 Tim 1:

15This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

16Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.


Each and every elect vessel of mercy [ROM 9:23] has their Damascus road conversion call from Jesus Christ, though it may not be exactly as Paul's, it will be as effective.


The call of God in this respect actually converts the elect, causing the one called to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as He is set forth in the gospel Gal 1:

16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

This call to the elect, the call of grace actually reveals in them, the Lord Jesus Christ. This is a call sovereignly credited to the Spirit of God jn 16:

14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

He shall make known Christ to all those He calls by His Grace.

2 thess 2:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Notice, that this call is to the obtaining [possession] of the Glory of of our Lord Jesus Christ. Its a summons resulting in our obtaining experimentally of the Glory of our Lord. This initially of course produces conversion, which is to the praise of His glory [ eph 1:12]

One of the converting effects of this call to Glory is Trusting in Christ.

OMEGA
June 15th, 2010, 10:38 AM
Beloved57 said,



14For many are called, but few are chosen.

There is a dispensational difference here, for under the Old Covenant Israel as a nation was called, and this is in reference to the nation as the context will tell, just read the passage leading up to that verse and that will be seen..

But in the NT post cross, the called are those that are the called of Jesus christ, like saul who became paul was called in acts 9..

So when writing His epistles and addressing them as the called, He has his personal experience to verify the calling he has in mind..

The called of Jesus christ is not for all men, but for those men and women whom Jesus christ was made sin for, and those whom His righteousness has been reckoned unto their account..

It is a distinct group of people, seperated from all other peoples in the world..

It is a call that though it is to a distinct people, its inclusive of both jew and gentile per rom 9:

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

You are talking about me again aren't you ?

THAT'S ME THAT'S ME. :sheep::king::rapture:
======================

beloved57
June 15th, 2010, 10:40 AM
Calling must be distinct from regeneration or new birth, but they are closely associated in the economy of salvation. The Sovereign and gracious work of the Spirit in regeneration enables the called one to respond in Trust. The Spirit of God after regeneration operates upon the new man's will, not forcing him, because he is now a new creation with a will bent towards God and heavenly things, whereas prior to new birth, he is opposed to these holy and heavenly things and enslaved to sin and evil continually.

Gen 6:

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Folks, this is the real deal of everyone born naturally, even to this day. To deny this is pride and arrogance over the word of Truth. but also:

gen 8:

21And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

See, no change in mans nature after the flood.

Jer 13:

23Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

How can one Trust in the Holy Jesus that is accustomed to do evil ?

Jer 17:

9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Now is this the heart that Paul refers to in rom 10:

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Or is Paul speaking of this heart ? ezk 36:26

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Its no doubt in my mind today, that the heart Paul is referring to in rom 10:9 is the new heart given in ezk 36:26 it is given in regeneration.

Jn 1:

5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

jn 3:

19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Men by nature being darkness [ eph 5:8] loveth darkness, rather than Light, for this is true of every single human being born into this world, to include the elect.

So the regenerated person is made willing, in the day of Gods power [ ps 110:3] which is the inner working of the Spirit of God !

zech 4:6

Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

In todays religious world, God the Spirit is greatly dishonored, for the advancement of the damnable heresy of the freewill of man.

The Call addresses the conscious of the renewed man, those who have had their conscious purged by the blood of Christ per heb 9:

14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

And it is these [ those with purged conscious by the blood of Christ] that are called heb 9:

15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Katie
June 20th, 2010, 05:26 AM
This calling proceeds from the Faithfulness of God unto the chosen race, that seed whom Jesus died for..

isa 53:

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
[/INDENT]

Though this is certainly not the fault of Jesus, there is not much else more frustrating than to see floating out in the mindset of the world today the idea that Isaiah 53 is referring to only one man who was of Israel. There have been many more since his time on earth who have shined the light in the world, and yet, those ... even many having been murdered viciously their ownselves ... are ignored by most to rather worship one Jewish man as though he were a greek demigod worthy to be credited for all that the People had learned at the point of time he walked the earth, and even all that has been learned since his disappearance.

If he were alive to know what is being done to his own even in his name, no doubt ... he would speak out against this on behalf of his own people. Read Jeremiah 30 for the name given to the one whose description fits the above mentioned verse in Isaiah 53. That would be Israel, the People, in case it becomes to hard for you to admit that the People you have cursed are those blessed of God for their service to Him. =)

beloved57
December 15th, 2010, 10:36 AM
1 Cor 1:9

9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

Organized religion today has very little to say about God's Faithfulness, but it is His by His Faithfulness to Hos Son and to His seed that many are called into believing on the Lord Jesus Christ by way of being called unto the fellowship of Him.

The words " called unto fellowship" can be called into the fellowship of His Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

The word unto is the greek prep eis and primarily means:

into, unto, to, towards, for, among

Called into the sphere of fellowship with Jesus Christ.

Believers have been called into the Fellowship of His Son. This is mentioned here in 1 Jn 1:3

3That which we have seen and heard [B]declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Now to be called into the sphere of fellowship with the Lord Jesus Christ is to be called into believing in Him, for there can be no fellowship without believing in or Faith in Him..

This called unto or into the Fellowship of Christ is not a offer as those who teach a false gospel may say. They present it as a mere opportunity, and now its up to you to accept or respond to the call.

But scripture here is plain and to the point that some are called into a fellowship with Jesus Christ, by means of the Faithfulness of God the Father. This Fellowship includes Faith or believing in Christ..

Its a effectual call that takes one out of darkness into the marvelous light 1 Pet 2:9

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

beloved57
December 15th, 2010, 11:59 AM
Referencing back to the Faithfulness of God in 1 Cor 1:9 in calling some into Faith and Fellowship of the The Lord Jesus Christ, also this Faithfulness of God sanctifies the called wholly to present us blameless at the coming of the Lord.

1 Thess 5:23-24


23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

24Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Notice, Paul prays to the God of Peace for this blessing, the God of Peace is used in Heb 13:20

20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

And the blessing He beseeches God for, is that all those called may be preserved blameless until the coming of our Lord. This should be a great blessing for the saints who remain until the coming of the Lord as in 1 Thess 4:15

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

They have a promise that the God of Peace will preserve them blameless, their outward and inner man..

So in essence, 1 Cor 1:8-9

8Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

and 1 Thess 5:23-24

23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

24Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

These affirm the very same Truth, which entirely is depended upon the Faithfulness of God, and nothing else..

beloved57
December 20th, 2010, 04:29 AM
We have shown how 1 cor 1 9 denotes a call into Faith by way of a call unto Fellowship..

Another scripture that speaks to the same purpose is rom 8:

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Amen, the same them that He called, them He Justified, that is Justified by Faith..

Paul writes how that Abraham heard the Gospel, how that God would Justify the heathen through Faith Gal 3:

8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

rom 5:

1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:


The same greek prep ek is used, just one translated through faith and the other by Faith..

Nevertheless, the called in rom 8 30 come to Justification by or through Faith..

Paul uses both in same verse here rom 3:30

Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

But notice again its a work God shall do..

beloved57
December 21st, 2010, 08:41 AM
2 Tim 1:9


9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

This calling issues into saving Faith, trusting in Jesus Christ.. Its a Holy Calling too, from a Holy God to a Holy People, made so by being born of the Holy Spirit..

beloved57
January 27th, 2011, 09:35 AM
Modern day religionists have had it all wrong, they believe that the call goes out to everyone without exception in regards to getting saved, and then according to ones response, they get saved...

But, scripture does not teach that, what scripture affirms is that the saved or the ones being saved are the ones that God calls with the Gospel of their salvation.

They are being saved before being actually called into experiential salvation or conversion, because those Christ died for are saved already by Christ cross work, His blood.

The preaching of the cross is only the power of God unto those who are being saved 1 Cor 1:18


18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

The word saved here sozo is in the greek a present tense passive participle, meaning they are in a saved state, and they are being saved..and so it is to these that the preaching of the cross is the power of God, not to those who are in a state of perishing..

This same principle is the case in Rom 1:16


16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Its the power of God unto salvation [conversion] to everyone believing it..

That means believing the gospel is a evidence of being in a saved state..

The Gospel call to some brings about a conversion experience, so that we are being saved by the preaching of the gospel. Paul means that when He says this: 1 Cor 4:15

For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Its the verb gennao and means:

in a Jewish sense, of one who brings others over to his way of life, to convert someone

See, gospel regeneration is not here what I mean, but the gospel, to those already regenerated, brings that life to light..Thats conversion..

You see, a saving work by the Holy Ghost must precede the saving work of the gospel, and that work of the Holy Ghost that saves is described here by paul Titus 3:5


5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

This saving is in the past tense, a once and for all saving by one new birth, but the saving by the gospel is a continuous experience, because that new spiritual life will continue to feed of the word of Truth..

And before the saving work of the Holy Ghost is the saving work of Christ work on the cross, which is preceded by Being saved in the Eternal Purpose of the Godhead 2 Tim 1:9



9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

So it is these , those saved in God's own purpose in Christ, before the world began, who are called by the gospel...

beloved57
January 29th, 2011, 10:54 PM
Notice that it is written in Joel 2 :


30And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come.

32And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered or saved for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

It is written that whosoever [jew or gentile] shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved or delivered, and we see that their is a called remnant to be saved, and it is they [of jew or gentile] that call upon the name of the Lord.

beloved57
February 2nd, 2011, 11:42 AM
Not Many Called to be saved !


1 cor 1:24

But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.


26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

Now any honest heart can see that not all are called in this regard, or it would not make sense for paul to say not many wise men or not many mighty men and etc..

This is a particular calling for salvation experience for some..

This called has to do with being chosen as we can see in vs 27

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

In other words, the called in vs 26 are the chosen in vs 27

The chosen of God are called..

beloved57
February 3rd, 2011, 12:09 PM
Faith and Repentnace the result of the Call for the called !


Almighty God does not call in vain, for He has a purpose for His call to His chosen ones.

Both Repentance and Faith are the manifestations of God's call and Justification of the elect, they are fruits of His election. Faith and repentance are God ordained means through which the Purpose of God in Election is accomplished !

The effectual call results in or effects repentance, thats why Jesus said :

Matt 9:13

But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

He came to call sinners to repentance ! Not give them a opportunity or chance to repent, but He calls them[sensible sinners by the Holy Spirit] to repentance !

The word to in the verse is the greek preposition eis and denotes primarily " entrance into "

The call is continuous resulting in repentance..

Jesus actually called all those the Father gave Him into repentance..

beloved57
February 4th, 2011, 08:05 PM
Called according to Purpose !

rom 8:28

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

To them who are the called according to purpose !

The Purpose of God, when one who is elect is called, they are Justified by Faith, this is a conscious Justification before their own minds rom 8:

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


You see, there is no way around it for them called according to His Purpose, when He calls them, it issues into their Justification by Faith..

This is a call for them to the obtaining of the Glory of Our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 thess 2:

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

hence thats why it [Glory ] follows after Justified in rom 8 30. The called in rom 8 28, 30 are the same as the called in 2 thess 2 14..


In the 2 thess 2 14 verse, paul tells them that by the Gospel, they were called into the obtaining

Its the greek word peripoiesis :

a preserving, a preservation

2) possession, one's own property

3) an obtaining

Salvation in its completeness, the whole possession of it..
Thats what the called according to His Purpose are destined to, to be Glorified together with their Head and Saviour.
Also the idea of preserving is in the word, so the called according to the purpose of God, are preserved, unto Glory while they are in the midst of much tribulation..

beloved57
February 16th, 2011, 07:42 AM
There is a called according to election..paul writes about it in rom 9:

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

again vs

24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

These are the called according to His Purpose rom 8:

28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

What purpose ? rom 9 11 tells us The purpose of God according to election..

beloved57
March 5th, 2011, 08:54 AM
1 pet 2:


9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

This call, is effectual and it actually calls one out of Darkness ! Notice the small prep out of its the word ek in the greek and it means: out of, from, by, away from

So the meaning is that this call from God effectually brings one out of, from, away from darkness and ushers into the marvelous Light..

This is a call of a People that God calls out for Himself, in order that they may give Him Praise, and Glorify Him for being God, So God is actually Glorifying Himself in Creating a People for His own Glory, for that is what is meant in acts 15:

14Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

This is the call of the gentiles rom 9:

24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

These are a People of both jews and gentiles that He creates for His Glory and His Praise Isa 43:

7Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

beloved57
March 8th, 2011, 01:59 PM
The called are the same as those being saved 1 cor 1:

18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved[being saved] it is the power of God.

23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Notice paul says unto THEM that are called, because all are not called, but the one who are, are being saved..

beloved57
March 23rd, 2011, 04:43 AM
Romans 8:28-30

Rom 8:

28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


This calling is the beginning of the application of salvation that Christ accomplished for all the elect of God. This state of the application is by means of the Gospel call, this is when the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation to them believing Rom 1:16. Its a summons inwardly to the New Creation unto Faith in Christ. Some may argue that the effectual call is given together with regeneration, whereby the act of the Holy Spirit changes or gives a New Heart that will desire and cherish Christ, hence regeneration is what enables and causes the called one to believe in Christ; also granting them repentance from dead works or religion.

This is also when the called one receives conscious Justification [hence them called are Justified] of which they have with God through Jesus Christ. This is not when God legally Justifies them, but when they receive the comfort and fellowship of their Justification . For faith or believing can never be the Legal basis why God Justifies a believer, because the blood of the Lamb does that alone..

beloved57
July 10th, 2011, 08:30 AM
1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

The called here are a Chosen Generation or Seed or Offspring !

The word generation is the greek word genos:


kindred

a) offspring

b) family

c) stock, tribe, nation

1) i.e. nationality or descent from a particular people

d) the aggregate of many individuals of the same nature, kind, sort

The words Generation and Seed compliment one another here Ps 22:30

A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.


And this Offspring, Seed, Family is called out of darkness unto Marvelous Light. They are called into fellowship with Christ, the Light .

John 8:12

Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

And this Generation is called into the Fellowship with this Light as per 1 Cor 1:9

God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Jn 1:3

3That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Christ lightens all His Offspring or generation with His Light. Lk 2:30-32

30For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

31Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;

32A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

So this Call of 1 Pet 2:9 is the conversion work of Christ through His word of Truth and it turns all the Seed, no matter of ethnicity, from darkness to light Acts 26:18

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

beloved57
July 17th, 2011, 07:04 AM
Rom 8:28

28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Those whom God calls according to His Eternal Purpose in Christ, shall as a result of that call Love God !

How does one come to Love God ? We do not Love God by Nature. Its by Spiritual circumcision of the Heart. Deut 30:6

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Rom 2:28-29

28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

So those who are called according to God's Purpose are that promised seed of Deut 30:6 and they are given a New Heart by Covenant Promise Ezk 36:26

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Those called according to God's Purpose have been given a New Birth by the Spirit.

And all without exception are called according to God's Purpose in Christ , thats why Paul writes TO THEM that are called according to His Purpose !

beloved57
August 30th, 2011, 08:17 AM
2 Tim 1:9

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

The calling in time proceeded from and issues from a Call of God before time began. Yes, those who are called in time, were called and saved before time according to God's Purpose.

Also, why is this an Holy Calling ? Well of course it has to do with it being a Call from the Holy God, but it is also because its according to a Holy Purpose, an Holy Covenant Lk 1:72

72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;.

Its also an Holy Calling because it issued to an Holy People, a set apart people ! And who are they ? Its for everyone Christ died for, or gave Himself for. Heb 10:10

10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

And its a Holy Calling because it causes those called in time to be obedient to the Divine Purpose !

beloved57
September 24th, 2011, 09:10 AM
Rom 1:1-6

1Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

2(Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

4And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

5By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

6Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

There are some People in the world today who the scripture designates as the Called or the Called of Jesus Christ as Paul in verse 1 and believers in Rome in vs 6.

Also reference is made to this special group as the called in Romans 9:24

24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

And 1 Cor 1:24

24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Here Paul uses the definite Article " The Called" THEM that are The Called, this denotes a special group of People apart from all others. This is a specific foreknown and Chosen People, thats why Paul follows up His comment to the Called Corinthians in 1 Cor 1:24 with these comments in vs 26-28

26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

He joins together whom God hath called with whom God has Chosen, this fact should not be overlooked. Simply stated, the Called and the Chosen are the same group !

Those therefore who are the Called of Jesus Christ Rom 1:6 are God's Elect Rom 8:33, them who have been Sanctified by God the Father, Preserved in Jesus Christ, and Called Jude 1:1

the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

These are called effectually unto Faith through the Gospel 2 Thess 2:14

14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And those being called have already been Justified in God's sight Rom 8:30. The calling indicates they already are right with God and before God by the Imputed Merits of Christ, that is why they are called unto the obtaining of the Glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Interesting note on the word obtaining here, it is the greek word peripoiēsis and means:

a preserving, a preservation

2) possession, one's own property

3) an obtaining

They that are called by the Gospel are called into the possession of the Glory of Jesus Christ, to partake of it. It is their property, their Inheritance as pointed out in 1 Pet 1:4-5

4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

The called of Rom 1:1,6 are called to the obtaining or possession of Glory that is in Christ Jesus 2 Tim 2:10

10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Paul could have said Therefore I endure all things for the Called sakes , that they may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with Eternal Glory.

beloved57
September 26th, 2011, 11:01 AM
So the called are those who have been redeemed by the blood of Christ. 1 Pet 2:9

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Now if we recall, Peter said of these same people earlier in the letter 1 Pet 1:18-19

18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Redeemed means purchased by paying the ransom, to liberate, to cause to be released to one's self by payment of a ransom

Notice it says to cause to be release, not an offer to be released, but an actual release..

Also they are released from the penalty of their sins. Now there were chosen sinners called during the Ministries of the Apostles, and some would be called after their ministry but through their word Jn 17:20, up until the Second Coming of Christ, they will be called from death unto life, from unbelief to faith or belief in the Truth !

Up in 1 Pet 2:9 where they are said to be called out of darkness into light, that light is life as well out of darkness of death into the light of life Jn 8:12

Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

beloved57
September 30th, 2011, 10:23 PM
This being called is an Covenant Blessing and its solely by the Grace of God Gal 1:15

15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

Heb 9:15

15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament or covenant, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Many will oppose Gal 1:15 and say this refers to paul only, to be called by God's Grace, and not every believer, however that is not True, it belongs to all the called of God, just as paul identifies himself with the called of both jews and gentiles Rom 9:24

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Notice even us whom He hath called, both jew and gentile. Now is this call in Rom 9:24 the same as the one in Gal 1:15 ? It most certainly is, a call by the Grace of God. It is what some would call an irresistible call, be that what it may, that is what it is. It is received by every blood bought sinner. God the Holy Spirit is author of this call Acts 13:2

2As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

And it is an inward call, by His Power applying the word of God !

Again this call is an Covenant blessing, it is because of the Grace that was given to them in Christ Jesus [Their Covenant Head] before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

beloved57
October 1st, 2011, 07:08 AM
Now there is somewhat of a general call that is received by everyone who physically hears the Gospel, these hear only externally, which does not convert a sinner out of death unto life Jn 5:24

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

1 Pet 2:9

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness[which is death] into his marvellous light[which is life];

Lk 1:79

To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace. See Lk 2:32 also !

Now this outward call may lead to a reformation by the efforts of the flesh, I believe such a one is described by Christ as a stony ground hearer who receives the word with joy, however come to find out that they have no root in themselves Matt 13:20-21


20But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

No root in himself means not an inward call. A Call not by the Lord Jesus Christ Rom 1:6

Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

Also a inward call denotes that one was born of the Spirit when they heard the Gospel, the Spirit indicating ownership, and He seals the hearer Eph 1:13

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

beloved57
October 1st, 2011, 08:38 AM
You see the difference between the outward call which is heard with the physical ear by everyone at the physical sounding of the the Gospel preached, and the inward call which is heard with the spiritual blessed ear Matt 3:16

But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

The former only hears the preacher, it is words only they hear "For our gospel came not unto you in word only"

Whereas the latter hears the voice of Christ inwardly by regeneration Jn 10:16,27

16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

You see, those who hear Jesus voice via the preached word, they follow Him, its automatic !

Because the words that Christ speaks to them [His Chosen] they are Spirit and they are Life Jn 6:63 and they are spoken to spiritual babes by new birth.

beloved57
December 9th, 2011, 10:20 AM
1 Pet 2:9

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

This Divine Call is not just a " hey you over there" I got something for you, but it is an actual word of command, a translation from the power of darkness [death] into the Kingdom of Light or of God,s Dear Son Col 1:13

13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

It is when one is entering into the Kingdom of God Jn 3:3-5

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Now the word for call in 1 Pet 2:9 is the greek word kaleō and has more of the ideal of a summon ! Our english word summon means:



to call upon to do something specified.

2.
to call for the presence of, as by command, message, or signal; call.

3.
to call or notify to appear at a specified place, especially before a court: to summon a defendant.

4.
to authorize or order a gathering of; call together by authority, as for deliberation or action: to summon parliament.

5.
to call into action; rouse; call forth (often. followed by up ): to summon all one's courage.

Its an authoritative summons resulting in action.

Lets look a little closer at the word call, as stated it is the greek word kaleo, it is derived from the root word keleuō which means:

to command, to order

This call is Illustrated by Jesus by His authoritative call of Lazarus Jn 11:

43And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.

44And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

You see the results of this call of command ? Lazarus came forth. Jesus called him by name, which is also the meaning of kaleo:


to call

a) to call aloud, utter in a loud voice

b) to invite

2) to call i.e. to name, by name

a) to give a name to

1) to receive the name of, receive as a name

2) to give some name to one, call his name

b) to be called i.e. to bear a name or title (among men)

c) to salute one by name

Same word calleth is in Jn 10:3

3To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

This call, leads the called one out of death, as it is Illustrated by Lazarus Jn 11:44

44And he that was dead came forth,

This is what is meant by the Call out of darkness [death] See Lk 1:79 and into His marvelous light ! See Jn 8:12

Is this call for everyone without exception ? No, it is for a Chosen Generation 1 Pet 2:9

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

It is limited to God's Elect !

beloved57
April 15th, 2012, 10:47 PM
2 Tim 1:9

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,


The elect, God in time calls us, not according to our works [unconditionally], that means this call was not based upon God farseeing those called performing any acts, conditions, faith or believing, repenting and so on, but solely premised upon His Own Purpose and Grace !

beloved57
April 30th, 2012, 05:13 AM
Heb 3:1

1Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Those who partake of this Heavenly Calling, were the Holy Brethren, those set apart by the Divine Purpose and Born Again by the Holy Spirit of God ! One must be born from above [Heavenly] to hear and receive a Heavenly Calling !

Only those born from above are fit recipients of this Heavenly Calling. Jesus said Jn 3:3

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

born again here is the greek words gennaō and anothen

Which means To be born or to be begotten from above,
anew, over again,

of things which come from heaven or God

Born from Heaven above !

Because, Christ, whose seed they are sits above Eph 1:20

Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Col 3:1

If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

It is from this heavenly places where the Call of Heb 3:1 comes from, and it is to them that have been born again or anew from above, where Christ their Head and Progenitor sits on the Right Hand of God in heavenly places !

Sorry folks, but those of us who only have partaken of our physical birth, by nature, we cannot be fit recipients of this Heavenly Calling !

beloved57
June 10th, 2012, 09:39 PM
Isa 55:1,3

Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

The call is to everyone that thirsteth, they are called to partake of the Blessings of Salvation, the sure mercies of David

3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

But this seems to be a call to a very specific and definite character, the Thirsty, and this is not a natural thirst of the natural man, but a thirst of a spiritual nature, one which the natural man does not have , if he did, then it would be error for it to be written that none seeks after God Rom 3:11

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

This word seek has the idea of crave which is also thirsting. There is no thirst by nature for the True and Living God Ps 42:1-2

As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God.

2 My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

Oh, yes the natural man can be very religious and seek religion and reformation in the power of the flesh, but we fail to seek and desire after the True and Living God by nature. So this thirst of our text here in Isa 55 is evidence of one with spiritual life, the life of God implanted in the soul, a life that only the regenerated or new born babes , that are born of God. It is not even possible from a spiritual standpoint that any of us dead in sin to thirst after the Living God, it would be like a dead man thirsting for a drink from a cool water fountain ! It should also be noted that the Saviour gave a call to a special, particular characteristic Jn 7:37

In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

If the person is not thirsting spiritually, then Christ is not appealing to them ! Christ is calling those who have this disposition Matt 5:6

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

those who thirst for this Righteousness, The Living God's Righteousness are fit recipients for the word of Righteousness Heb 5:13

For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

The Call to experiential salvation is for those who are born again with spiritual desires and thirstings from a holy Principal of life implanted .

beloved57
January 21st, 2013, 06:06 AM
Acts 2:38-39

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

This scripture more than indicates that all men without exception are not included in this call, which is a call in reference to Salvation. Its says " as many as" which automatically denotes the exclusion of others for this call. Jesus uses those words here Jn 17:2

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Again exclusion of some are indicated, for all without exception were not given Him by the Father, because all the Father gives Him, comes to Him Jn 6:37

The word call here is the greek word proskaleō and means:


to call to

2) to call to one's self

3) to bid to come to one's self

4) metaph.

a) God is said to call to himself the Gentiles, aliens as they are from him, by inviting them, through the preaching of the gospel unto fellowship with himself in the Messiah's kingdom

b) Christ and the Holy Spirit are said to call to themselves those preachers of the gospel to whom they have decided to intrust a service having reference to the extension of the gospel

It basically means to call to oneself. God in this Call Acts 2:39 is calling some to Himself .

Its a Sovereign call to the called ones into or unto Fellowship 1 Cor 1:9

9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

This special call is given to both jew and gentile Rom 9:24

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

beloved57
April 27th, 2013, 05:37 PM
2 Pet 1:10

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:


I don't believe its a clearer scripture that joins Calling with Election. Thats who God Calls with the Gospel, the Elect of God 1 Thess 1:4-5

4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

Paul said to these same ones 2 Thess 2:14

Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

He called the Election of God as in 1 Thess 1:4

Also this call comes in power and in the Holy Ghost as Per Vs 5 and it comes to the Election of God.

Thats why to them its the Power of God Rom 1:16

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Its the Power of God when it comes in the power of the Spirit, then it brings about ones believing !

beloved57
April 29th, 2013, 02:13 PM
That its God's Elect that are Called in Time by the Gospel of God's Grace through Jesus Christ, according to God's Purpose as seen in Rom 8:28

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Now ask oneself, what Purpose ? Why its the purpose of Election Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

This Purpose along with Grace was given them in Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose [of election] and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Also they were Predestinated in the same purpose Rom 8:30

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called[by the Gospel],[B] them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

beloved57
April 30th, 2013, 04:20 AM
2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

This Holy calling is issued out only to Holy People, made so by the presence of the Holy Spirit in them. The Thrice Holy God does not issue a Holy Calling to an unholy people. This Holy call goes out to all those #1. Who were made Holy Legally by the Death of Christ or the Blood of Christ, and #2 they have been made Holy by the Spirit of God. The Spirit must first set them apart unto the Call 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel[word of Truth], to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And before all, they were made Holy by the Election of the Father. An Holy Call cannot and will not go out to the unregenerate or those who are merely in the flesh Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

beloved57
May 7th, 2013, 09:58 AM
Zech 10:8

8 I will hiss for them, and gather them; for I have redeemed them: and they shall increase as they have increased.

The word hiss in the original is whistle as to bring someone near. If we have a pet, perhaps a dog, if we want to bring or cause him to come to us, we whistle, and sure enough, if he knows our voice or whistle he comes to us !

In the context reference is to a remnant of the Elect Israel, and God is saying that He call or gather them to Him because He has redeemed them.

Isa 43:1

But now thus saith the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.

The call or hiss follows the fact of having been redeemed !

Luke 1:68

Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

And this People, based upon being redeemed, shall be called or gathered ! Jn 11:52

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

All the Children of God have been redeemed by Christ's Death/Blood, and so they must be called or hissed for by name !

Everyone Christ died for has been redeemed by His Blood 1 Pet 1:18-19

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:


, and in light of that they all are called or hissed for 1 Pet 2:9


9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

All whom the Blood of Christ redeems, must be called out of darkness, hissed into fellowship with God through Jesus Christ ! Gathered up !

beloved57
May 29th, 2013, 04:45 AM
Rom 8:28

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.


Those, and only those who are the called according to God's Purpose, will as a result Love God.

They are also the ones that John writes of here 1 Jn 4:19

We love him, because he first loved us.

And who Moses wrote of here Deut 30:6

And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Rom 2:29

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Rom 2:29 here is also describing those of Rom 8:28, who Love God, see how that's a match with Deut 30:6 ?

beloved57
July 2nd, 2013, 04:36 AM
2 Tim 1:9

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Now the Gospel, that is the Power of God unto Salvation is an Holy Gospel, from a Holy God, to a Holy People. If we are in a state of lostness, dead in sin, alienated from the life of God, then we are not called by God with an Holy Calling, as He that is called you is Holy, so be ye Holy also 1 Pet 1:15

But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

And man in a state of nature is experientially not Holy, but unholy.

The same applies to the heavenly call Heb 3:1

Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

This call is to a heavenly people, that is that have been born from above, those who have been blessed with spiritual blessings from heavenly places Eph 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

If we ourselves are not heavenly we will not partake of a Heavenly Call.

You see, when one is born again they are born from above [heaven] Jesus says Jn 3:3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, [B]Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

The word again is greek word anōthen:

from above, from a higher place

a) of things which come from heaven or God

To be born again is to be born from above where Christ sitteth on the Right Hand of God, and to be born from heaven.

Its a birth we receive from heaven Jn 3:27

27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

And that is who partakes of the Heavenly Calling Heb 3:1 and the Holy Calling, those who have been born from above, for they are then Holy experimentally.

beloved57
July 2nd, 2013, 04:30 PM
Rom 1:6

Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ

Paul says of the believers of Rome, Ye are also the Called of Jesus Christ, even as He was Rom 1:1

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

The only difference being, he was also called to be an Apostle and they were called to other works of service Rom 12:6-8

6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;

8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

But their call is just as important to the body as Paul's was. Paul makes that clear in 1 Cor 12:14-24

Now who are the Called of Jesus Christ ? They are the ones He died for, and so the Spirit calls them inwardly. All whom He calls He has Redeemed, the Spirit sanctifies them unto Faith in Him 2 Thess 2:13-14.

Only those who have been redeemed by His Blood, purchased by His Blood are called by God into Fellowship. We see this in Peter 1 Pet 1:18-19

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Then notice what He writes of them shortly after 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

The redeemed are effectually called out of darkness into the Marvelous Light, which includes the Light of the Gospel 2 Cor 4:4-6

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

This same principle of redeemed then called is taught here Isa 43:1

But now thus saith the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.

Zech 10:8

8 I will hiss for them, and gather them; for I have redeemed them: and they shall increase as they have increased.

That word hiss means to whistle, to bring near ! God brings near to Himself those redeemed by the Blood of Christ.

genuineoriginal
July 2nd, 2013, 06:45 PM
Romans 1:6

Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

Under the New Covenant, not all men and women are the called of Jesus Christ. This called should not be confused with the called in Matt 22:14

14For many are called, but few are chosen.

Both called are the same. You are trying to introduce confusion by separating them.

beloved57
July 3rd, 2013, 12:15 AM
genuine


Both called are the same.

No they are not.

genuineoriginal
July 3rd, 2013, 12:23 AM
No they are not.

Matthew 22
1 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

False Prophet
July 3rd, 2013, 12:40 PM
The harlot church is being called. It is being called by God to repent and forsake its evil. The day will come when God's throne of mercy turns to a throne of judgment. While the foolish virgins went out to get their oil, the wise virgins went in to meet the bridegroom and the door was shut. The foolish virgins said, "Lord open for us!"; and the Lord said, "I know you not!"
12Therefore thou shalt speak unto them this word: Thus saith Jehovah, the God of Israel, Every bottle shall be filled with wine: and they shall say unto thee, Do we not certainly know that every bottle shall be filled with wine? 13Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith Jehovah, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness. 14And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith Jehovah: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have compassion, that I should not destroy them. Jer 13
15Hear ye, and give ear; be not proud; for Jehovah hath spoken.
16Give glory to Jehovah your God, before he cause darkness, and before your feet stumble upon the dark mountains, and, while ye look for light, he turn it into the shadow of death, and make it gross darkness.
17But if ye will not hear it, my soul shall weep in secret for your pride; and mine eye shall weep sore, and run down with tears, because Jehovah's flock is taken captive.
18Say thou unto the king and to the queen-mother, Humble yourselves, sit down; for your headtires are come down, even the crown of your glory.

beloved57
July 3rd, 2013, 10:01 PM
Matthew 22
1 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Ok and ?

beloved57
July 3rd, 2013, 10:02 PM
The harlot church is being called.

No its not.

genuineoriginal
July 5th, 2013, 06:57 AM
Ok and ?

Jesus spoke many parables about the kingdom of heaven/kingdom of God.
The one I quoted says that many are called to enter the kingdom of heaven, but few of those that respond to the call are chosen.

beloved57
July 5th, 2013, 07:42 AM
Jesus spoke many parables about the kingdom of heaven/kingdom of God.
The one I quoted says that many are called to enter the kingdom of heaven, but few of those that respond to the call are chosen.

Ok, I have no problem with the parable you quoted. I do know you have evaded all my points in this thread.

genuineoriginal
July 5th, 2013, 07:54 AM
Ok, I have no problem with the parable you quoted.
You do have a problem with it, otherwise you would not have said this:


Romans 1:6

Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

Under the New Covenant, not all men and women are the called of Jesus Christ. This called should not be confused with the called in Matt 22:14

14For many are called, but few are chosen.
The called is the same in both places.

I do know you have evaded all my points in this thread.
Your point is that the calling is efficacious, which is why you have a problem with the parable that says it is not.

Calvinism puts the salvation before the calling, and ignores everything else.

Properly exegeted, the Bible shows that the calling is sent out first. Only those that answer the call will be chosen, but not all those that answer will be chosen because those that answer must also prepare themselves to be chosen.

beloved57
July 5th, 2013, 08:46 AM
The called is the same in both places.

No its not. In the first place in Matt 22, it pertains only to the jews of the nation of Israel.

In the second place Rom 1 it pertains to both jew and gentile Rom 9:24

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
.

You see all the jews in Israel, though they were all called to form the physical nation consisting of Abraham's Physical seed, not all of them were chosen. at Matt 22:14

14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Just like when Paul says of National Israel here Rom 11:7

7 What then? Israel [Nationally]hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election/ chosen[In Israel] hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Now I have explained this seveal times before, but you ignore it as you will this time or oppose and deny it.

Again, you just evaded the Truth of my post, then make a comment without no proof you studied the context or anything.

genuineoriginal
July 5th, 2013, 09:23 AM
No its not. In the first place in Matt 22, it pertains only to the jews of the nation of Israel.

It appears you didn't read the parable.

Matthew 22
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
This part is referring to the children of Israel. They were the servants that refused to obey, and their city was burned up in 70 CE.


Matthew 22
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
These are the Gentiles called to be in the kingdom.



Matthew 22
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
This guest is a Christian that answered the call, but refused to prepare himself for the kingdom.

beloved57
July 5th, 2013, 09:58 AM
This guest is a Christian that answered the call, but refused to prepare himself for the kingdom.

You have failed to prove your assumption, which is Matt 22:14 is speaking of the same as Rom 1:6.

Its Two different sets of People. Both calls are effectual, for God did call the physical nation into being for His Purpose, however not all of them were His Elect People, only a remnant.

But those called in Rom 1:6, the Called of Jesus Christ are all God's Elect Rom 8:28-33

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Two different reasons for their calls. One just for the physical advantages of being of that nation, the other to be conformed into the Image of Christ.

genuineoriginal
July 5th, 2013, 10:22 AM
Two different reasons for their calls. One just for the physical advantages of being of that nation, the other to be conformed into the Image of Christ.

Like I said, you didn't read the parable.

You also keep trying to put the choosing before the response to the call and the preparation needed to be chosen.
That is why you keep arguing yourself into a corner.

beloved57
July 5th, 2013, 12:01 PM
genuine


Like I said, you didn't read the parable.

I have read it plenty of times, but this thread is not about that Parable, but the Called of Jesus Christ.

I have showed you your error in assuming that the called in Matt 22:14 is the called of Rom 1, and you have yet to prove your point. Just quoting a Parable does not prove your aasumption, it just proves to me that you have evaded my previous points and that you don't understand that parable.

genuineoriginal
July 5th, 2013, 12:38 PM
genuine

I have read it plenty of times, but this thread is not about that Parable, but the Called of Jesus Christ.

I have showed you your error in assuming that the called in Matt 22:14 is the called of Rom 1,
The parable is about the called in Jesus Christ.
Your error is in your doctrine, which makes it necessary for you to claim they are not the same, even though they are.

beloved57
July 6th, 2013, 03:07 PM
All are not the called of Jesus Christ, only those who have been preserved by Him and then called Jude 1:1

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

They are them that are called here Rom 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Note, the Them that are called are also them that are Justified and they shall be Glorified.

None of them will be cast into outer darkness !

genuineoriginal
July 6th, 2013, 08:25 PM
Note, the Them that are called are also them that are Justified and they shall be Glorified.

None of them will be cast into outer darkness !
You are putting all your hope in a false doctrine that God chose first and then called those He chose.

The truth is that many are called, but few are chosen.

Only those that are obedient to the call will be chosen.

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall.

beloved57
July 7th, 2013, 01:35 AM
Only those that are obedient to the call will be chosen.
What scripture says that ?

beloved57
July 13th, 2013, 03:26 PM
Heb 9:15

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Why is this the call of an Heir ? The word inheritance is the greek word klēronomia d means:

an inheritance, property received (or to be received) by inheritance

2) what is given to one as a possession

a) the eternal blessedness of the consummated kingdom of God which is to be expected after the visible return of Christ

b) the share which an individual will have in that eternal blessedness

"a lot" (see A), properly "an inherited property, an inheritance." "It is always rendered inheritance in NT, but only in a few cases in the Gospels has it the meaning ordinarily attached to that word in English, i.e., that into possession of which the heir enters only on the death of an ancestor. The NT usage may be set out as follows:

one who receives by lot, an heir

a) an heir

This call here is not to all mankind in general, even though it goes out universally for the Calling of the Heirs of Salvation or Eternal Inheritance Heb 1:14

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?


Salvation is not an offer , nor is it made available for whosoever wants it. For it's only the Heirs of Abraham's Seed that are intended with this Call of the Gospel Rom 4:13-16

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Yes the Heirs, the Seed Vs13,16; For all Believers in Christ when it is all said and done, are all of the Seed of Abraham, God's Elect Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's,[Or Believers] then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Yes ministerially the Gospel is to be preached world wide without distinction because the ministers themselves do not know who the Heirs are who shall believe, however the Holy Spirit of Promise does know they are and He will by and through the Father and the Son effectually call to Faith the Heirs for whom it [Gospel] was intended Heb 9:15; 1 Cor 1:24

24 But unto them which are called[Heirs], both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Now we are careless in our understanding if we equate the command of Christ to carry the Gospel of Salvation out world wide, to mean that He is calling all without exception, when it is intended only for the Heirs who are scattered abroad throughout the world Jn 11:51-52

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God/heirs that were scattered abroad.

Do remember that the children of God and Heirs are the same people Rom 8:16-17

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

The Heirs are no other than the Sheep that Christ stated they should Hear His Voice Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

They hear His voice in the Gospel Call which is He calling them specifically by Name Jn 10:3

To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

That word calleth here is the same word called in Heb 9:15 the word kaleō:

to call

a) to call aloud, utter in a loud voice

b) to invite

2) to call i.e. to name, by name

a) to give a name to

That's because the Heirs of Heb 9:15 are the Sheep of Christ in Jn 10:3 and He is their Inheritance and Joint Heirs with Him Rom 8:17

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ[Their Shepherd]; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

beloved57
July 23rd, 2013, 11:43 AM
Who are them that Love God ?

Rom 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

First let it be understood that none of us by nature Love God, for this scripture applies to each of us by nature Rom 1:30

Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Its akin to being ungodly Rom 5:6

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

The word ungodly :

destitute of reverential awe towards God, condemning God, impious or contemning God .

Yes, this applies to all of US by Nature !

It matters not how men may boast and say they do by nature Love God, they don't, they may Love a god of their own understanding, but they don't Love the One True and Living God revealed in scripture.

Loving God is the effect of being given a spiritually circumcised Heart as Per Deut 30:6

6 And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

This is what Paul refers to here Rom 2:2

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

And in this place Phil 3:3

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Note: Paul here is writing to both jew and gentile believers. For instance, this would apply to the roman guard who became a believer with his household Acts 16.

But those who shall love God are stated; Those known of God 1 Cor 8:3

3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

Are not the Sheep Christ died for those God Knows and they shall know Him Per Jn 10::14

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

Those God Loves 1 Jn 4:19

19 We love him, because or since he first loved us.

Those God Loves will He cause to Love Him, by giving them His Spirit 2 Tim 1:7

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Rom 5:5

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

And they are the foreknown of God that Love God and those CALLED Rom 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Those who are the Called according to His Purpose, shall be the Ones who Love God, by a Work of Spiritual Circumcision in them because God first Loved them !

False Prophet
July 23rd, 2013, 11:50 AM
Jeremiah was called from the womb.
Now the word of Jehovah came unto me, saying,
5Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee; I have appointed thee a prophet unto the nations.
6Then said I, Ah, Lord Jehovah! behold, I know not how to speak; for I am a child.
7But Jehovah said unto me, Say not, I am a child; for to whomsoever I shall send thee thou shalt go, and whatsoever I shall command thee thou shalt speak.
8Be not afraid because of them; for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith Jehovah.
9Then Jehovah put forth his hand, and touched my mouth; and Jehovah said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth:
10see, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to pluck up and to break down and to destroy and to overthrow, to build and to plant. Jer 1

genuineoriginal
July 23rd, 2013, 07:32 PM
What scripture says that ?


Hebrews 5:9
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

beloved57
July 23rd, 2013, 07:35 PM
Hebrews 5:9
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

You must can't read, that scripture does not says:


Only those that are obedient to the call will be chosen.

genuineoriginal
July 23rd, 2013, 07:45 PM
You must can't read, that scripture does not says:
You think it says only the disobedient will be saved?

You really need to read what the Bible says about obedience and disobedience. It blows Calvinism out of the water.

beloved57
July 23rd, 2013, 08:15 PM
You think it says only the disobedient will be saved?

You really need to read what the Bible says about obedience and disobedience. It blows Calvinism out of the water.

I said that Heb 5:9 does not say


Only those that are obedient to the call will be chosen.

genuineoriginal
July 23rd, 2013, 10:43 PM
I said that Heb 5:9 does not say
So, you are saying that you can't read?

:yawn:

beloved57
July 24th, 2013, 06:10 AM
So, you are saying that you can't read?

:yawn:

I said that Heb 5:9 does not say

Only those that are obedient to the call will be chosen.

genuineoriginal
July 24th, 2013, 07:30 AM
I said that Heb 5:9 does not say

Only those that are obedient to the call will be chosen.
You appear to be claiming that the people that refuse to answer the call and the people that refuse to be obedient will be saved.
I suppose you also claim to be saved.

beloved57
July 24th, 2013, 07:58 AM
You appear to be claiming that the people that refuse to answer the call and the people that refuse to be obedient will be saved.
I suppose you also claim to be saved.

I said that Heb 5:9 does not say

Only those that are obedient to the call will be chosen.

God's Truth
July 24th, 2013, 11:35 AM
God calls those who do right.

All have a chance to come to God, but it is only those who do right that will hear the call and can be saved.

John 3:21 But the one who practices the truth comes to the light, so that it may be plainly evident that his deeds have been done in God.

beloved57
July 24th, 2013, 12:18 PM
gt


God calls those who do right.

What scripture says that ?


All have a chance to come to God

What scripture says that ?


But the one who practices the truth comes to the light, so that it may be plainly evident that his deeds have been done in God.

But who is it the practices Truth ? Surely its not anyone who has not been born again. Those in the flesh cannot please God, nor are they subject to the Lawof God.

Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Anyone not having been born again is in the flesh !

God's Truth
July 24th, 2013, 12:22 PM
gt



What scripture says that ?



What scripture says that ?

I have already given you scripture.

John 3:21 But the one who practices the truth comes to the light, so that it may be plainly evident that his deeds have been done in God.

1 Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

j4jesus09
July 24th, 2013, 06:05 PM
I have already given you scripture.

John 3:21 But the one who practices the truth comes to the light, so that it may be plainly evident that his deeds have been done in God.

1 Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

Do you think God planned your salvation?

God's Truth
July 24th, 2013, 07:25 PM
Do you think God planned your salvation?

God made the plan for salvation before the creation of the world.

God does not make us come to Him without our wanting and knowing.

You are a Calvinist.

You have been misled by false teachers.

Lazy afternoon
July 24th, 2013, 07:28 PM
Psa 50:23 Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright will I shew the salvation of God.

God's Truth
July 24th, 2013, 07:31 PM
Psa 50:23 Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright will I shew the salvation of God.

That is a good find, beautiful.

beloved57
July 24th, 2013, 09:39 PM
gt


I have already given you scripture.

John 3:21 But the one who practices the truth comes to the light, so that it may be plainly evident that his deeds have been done in God.

1 Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

Do you need glasses ?

Neither one of those verses says as you stated:


All have a chance to come to God

God's Truth
July 24th, 2013, 11:09 PM
gt



Do you need glasses ?

Neither one of those verses says as you stated:

The Word of God says Jesus is the Savior of ALL PEOPLE. All people can come to Jesus to be saved.

1 Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

beloved57
July 25th, 2013, 12:34 AM
The Word of God says Jesus is the Savior of ALL PEOPLE. All people can come to Jesus to be saved.

1 Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

Neither one of those verses says as you stated:




All have a chance to come to God

God's Truth
July 25th, 2013, 09:05 AM
Neither one of those verses says as you stated:

You deny God's Truth.

beloved57
July 25th, 2013, 09:20 AM
You deny God's Truth.

What scripture of truth says:




All have a chance to come to God

God's Truth
July 25th, 2013, 09:25 AM
What scripture of truth says:

1 Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

If you give up your false beliefs when you hear the truth, you will show that you are a child of God.

beloved57
July 25th, 2013, 10:00 AM
1 Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

If you give up your false beliefs when you hear the truth, you will show that you are a child of God.

I have no disagreement with 1 Tim 4:10. But where is the scripture that says as you stated:




All have a chance to come to God

j4jesus09
July 25th, 2013, 10:13 AM
God made the plan for salvation before the creation of the world.

God does not make us come to Him without our wanting and knowing.

You are a Calvinist.

You have been misled by false teachers.

No, He made it personally and wonderfully for you! He knew you in your mother's womb. He knew you before you existed. He planned for you to come to Him. He strategically set the road for just you. It's not a matter of God MAKING us come to Him it's His LOVE that draws us the true children of God. You look at humans according to the flesh but not according to the spirit in them. There is a sympathy in us for all men which there should be. BUT, we must not get caught up in the flesh. We want every single flesh to be saved but we know not every flesh is of God. So to think that God wants everyone to be saved would go against scripture. I know the bible says He is not willing that any should perish. I believe this is His children. Judas was ordained to betray Jesus before Judas even existed. Judas could not change His future no matter what. So much for freewill there. Everything is beautifully and wonderfully planned out for us and we must learn how to walk it. Amen.

God's Truth
July 25th, 2013, 10:53 AM
I have no disagreement with 1 Tim 4:10. But where is the scripture that says as you stated:

Since Jesus is the Savior of all men that means all can be saved.

j4jesus09
July 25th, 2013, 10:56 AM
Since Jesus is the Savior of all men that means all can be saved.

Who believes this? Do you think all truly believe Jesus is their saviour?

God's Truth
July 25th, 2013, 10:59 AM
No, He made it personally and wonderfully for you! He knew you in your mother's womb. He knew you before you existed. He planned for you to come to Him. He strategically set the road for just you. It's not a matter of God MAKING us come to Him it's His LOVE that draws us the true children of God. You look at humans according to the flesh but not according to the spirit in them. There is a sympathy in us for all men which there should be. BUT, we must not get caught up in the flesh. We want every single flesh to be saved but we know not every flesh is of God. So to think that God wants everyone to be saved would go against scripture.
Why would God plead with them to turn from their ways if they cannot choose to?

"But as for you who forsake the LORD and forget my holy mountain, who spread a table for Fortune and fill bowls of mixed wine for Destiny, I will destine you for the sword, and you will all bend down for the slaughter; for I called but you did not answer, I spoke but you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and chose what displeases me." Isaiah 65:11-12. Here God says about being forsaken and His holy mountain being forgot. Also, this passage tells us that God called the people, and the people did not answer; He spoke but the people did not listen.

Ezekiel 18:23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

Ezekiel 18:32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, O house of Israel?'

John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Romans 11:14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. How could Paul ever think that he could save some by arousing them to envy if God saves us by the Holy Spirit enabling us to believe?

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Following are more indisputable passages from the bible that show Calvinism is not biblical.

Acts 17 24"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. 25And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. 26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.' 29"Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill. 30In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead."

You see in Acts 17:27 God wants men to seek him, and that God is not far from "each one of us." In addition, see in 17:30 God commands "all people everywhere" to repent. Remember, Calvinists say not all men. Clearly, Calvinists beliefs are different from what God says. See also in 31, God has given proof to "all men."


I know the bible says He is not willing that any should perish. I believe this is His children.
You are going against the Word of God. Why would God’s children perish if they are predestined to be saved.


Judas was ordained to betray Jesus before Judas even existed. Judas could not change His future no matter what. So much for freewill there. Everything is beautifully and wonderfully planned out for us and we must learn how to walk it. Amen.
Judas was a thief before he betrayed Jesus. Judas could have changed, and he did but it was too late.

God's Truth
July 25th, 2013, 11:01 AM
Who believes this? Do you think all truly believe Jesus is their saviour?

Just because someone does not believe Jesus, it does not make what Jesus says not so!

j4jesus09
July 25th, 2013, 11:25 AM
Why would God plead with them to turn from their ways if they cannot choose to? Don't mistake having choices with God has planned your footsteps to the most intricate detail. I have a choice to do this or that, within God's plan for my life. My plan may not be the plan your on. It all leads to shaping us like Christ. We must not forget that sin is working against us since the beginning. Without God advising us to turn, would we? So that is the reason God tells us. He must tell us so we can turn. Since we all have sinned someone has to advise us to turn away. Those that are chosen unto God will respond. Those that are not will not.



"But as for you who forsake the LORD and forget my holy mountain, who spread a table for Fortune and fill bowls of mixed wine for Destiny, I will destine you for the sword, and you will all bend down for the slaughter; for I called but you did not answer, I spoke but you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and chose what displeases me." Isaiah 65:11-12. Here God says about being forsaken and His holy mountain being forgot. Also, this passage tells us that God called the people, and the people did not answer; He spoke but the people did not listen.

Right, this would be no different than us not listening to the Lord at one point in our lives. We can't say this tells us there whole life was doomed. We would all be in trouble. The thing is if God was to write a book on our lives right now we might be able to see some of the same things.




John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

We know that anyone that loves the world is an enemy of God. So, this scripture to me means more he came to save the earth because the earth is dark too because of sin. I could be wrong but it doesn't change that I'm in this world so He could be talking to us children of God who are in this world.



Romans 11:14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. How could Paul ever think that he could save some by arousing them to envy if God saves us by the Holy Spirit enabling us to believe?

Because it is through the work of the Holy Spirit which Paul had that they are aroused to envy or jealousy. Without the Holy Spirit Paul wouldn't have aroused anybody.



2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

He is patient with YOU. This is for the individual who loves God. Not someone who is not of God. Hitler or some of the worst in our history to me would not care about this verse. Now if God so decides to open up even the worst enemy, they can be saved too.


Following are more indisputable passages from the bible that show Calvinism is not biblical.


Acts 17 24"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. 25And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. 26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.' 29"Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill. 30In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead."

He determined the exact times and places but yet you don't think He determined your salvation personally just for you. Yes He did this so men would seek Him. What about woman? It doesn't say women. We know it means women too, but it doesn't say woman. Just like it doesn't say I don't mean all men, you have to understand the bible is for the CHILDREN OF GOD. OUR TRUTH IN A DARK WORLD.



You see in Acts 17:27 God wants men to seek him, and that God is not far from "each one of us." In addition, see in 17:30 God commands "all people everywhere" to repent. Remember, Calvinists say not all men. Clearly, Calvinists beliefs are different from what God says. See also in 31, God has given proof to "all men."

You are going against the Word of God. Why would God’s children perish if they are predestined to be saved.

Yes, God wants men to seek Him. Does He technically say women too? God commands us to love our enemies. If they are enemies then they don't love God. God wants all men to seek Him just like He wants us to love all people. That is the nature of God. We don't know who are the elect and who are not. We are commanded to preach the gospel so that those who are being saved will respond to the plan God set up before the foundation of the world. God will not allow His children to perish eternally. I never said if God predestined them to be saved that they would perish.

Judas was a thief before he betrayed Jesus. Judas could have changed, and he did but it was too late.[/QUOTE]

How could Judas have changed if scriptures some 1000 years before it happened promised he was going to betray Jesus and kill himself? And Judas did what, changed? How so?

j4jesus09
July 25th, 2013, 11:30 AM
Just because someone does not believe Jesus, it does not make what Jesus says not so!

So tell me can you go inside the heart and find out what makes a person believe. I know Jesus is the truth so what He says is truth. But you miss the promising fact here. How does a person BELIEVE? What is the source of believing? You see what I'm saying? There are slow people, there are intelligent people. What is the defining factor for one to believe? This where I tell you God is the factor for believing. I don't know how He did it, does it, or is doing it. It's all God working in us through us, before we existed He knew He would and He will perfect us. It's not against our will, He broke our so called will with His love. Yes, our will must be broken in order to receive Him. That is what God does through life circumstances is breaking down our sinful will against Him until we come to the place of surrender and we call on Him. I can tell you not everyone will come to this place because God planned it that way.

beloved57
July 25th, 2013, 12:02 PM
Since Jesus is the Savior of all men that means all can be saved.

That's not what 1 Tim 4:10 says. Neither does it say


All have a chance to come to God

God's Truth
July 25th, 2013, 12:20 PM
That's not what 1 Tim 4:10 says. Neither does it say

That scripture says it plainly and clearly. The devil has ensnared you.

j4jesus09
July 25th, 2013, 12:30 PM
That scripture says it plainly and clearly. The devil has ensnared you.

How do you know you're not ensnared? What makes you BELIEVE that someone else is?

beloved57
July 25th, 2013, 12:30 PM
That scripture says it plainly and clearly. The devil has ensnared you.

1 Tim 4:10 does not say:




Since Jesus is the Savior of all men that means all can be saved.

or


All have a chance to come to God

Those are things you say it says, but it doesn't. You are deceived !

lifeisgood
July 25th, 2013, 12:41 PM
There is and can never be free will and/or freedom of choice under the cult of predestination.

In the cult of predestination, God is presented as having pre-destined every single Life in the world for GOOD or for Evil; so this would make God guilty of being unjust, immoral, and full of hate against His own creation as He condemns many of His own creation to punishments for committing crimes they were ‘FORCED’ to commit because God Himself had ALREADY ‘predestined’ them to commit those crimes.

If that is true, then we have to consider that God has ‘predestined’ many of HIS OWN CREATION to HELLFIRE without any fault of their own, because He Himself created them to commit the crimes that He Himself created them to do.

I cannot accept the cult of predestination.

Now, for me, what is predestined is the Plan of Salvation, Jesus Christ and what He did.

If I am in Him and I am baptized into His Plan of Salvation that has been predestined, then I ‘became’ predestined because I am in Him, however, I was not predestined beforehand to be redeemed, and the rest of my family was predestined to Hellfire without any opportunity to come to Him because He Himself created them to go to Hell and He Himself created me to be redeemed by Him. That is not the God that I serve.

God's Truth
July 25th, 2013, 01:22 PM
How do you know you're not ensnared? What makes you BELIEVE that someone else is?


You teach what Calvin teaches.

I believe what the scriptures plainly and clearly say.

I want to help you see the truth to know Him better.

j4jesus09
July 25th, 2013, 01:39 PM
You teach what Calvin teaches.

I believe what the scriptures plainly and clearly say.

I want to help you see the truth to know Him better.

Appreciate that. Question, in Romans 9 when God said for this purpose He hardened Pharaoh's heart that HE might show His power to Israel. Where does the scripture said pharaoh had a choice to change?

lifeisgood
July 25th, 2013, 01:46 PM
Notice that in a very real sense, all four of the following statements are true: (1) God hardened Pharaoh’s heart; (2) Moses hardened Pharaoh’s heart; (3) the words that Moses spoke hardened Pharaoh’s heart; (4) Pharaoh hardened his own heart. All four of these observations are accurate, depicting the same truth from different perspectives. In this sense, God is responsible for everything in the Universe, i.e., He has provided the occasion, the circumstances, and the environment in which all things (including people) operate. But He is not guilty of wrong in so doing. From a quick look at a simple Hebrew idiom, it is clear that God did not unjustly or directly harden Pharaoh’s heart. God is no respecter of persons (Acts 10:34), He does not act unjustly (Psalms 33:5), and He has always allowed humans to exercise their free moral agency (Deuteronomy 30:19). God, however, does use the wrong, stubborn decisions committed by rebellious sinners to further His causes (Isaiah 10:5-11). In the case of Pharaoh’s hardened heart, God can be charged with no injustice, and the Bible can be charged with no contradiction. Humans were created with free moral agency and are culpable for their own actions.

http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=1205

j4jesus09
July 25th, 2013, 01:51 PM
Notice that in a very real sense, all four of the following statements are true: (1) God hardened Pharaoh’s heart; (2) Moses hardened Pharaoh’s heart; (3) the words that Moses spoke hardened Pharaoh’s heart; (4) Pharaoh hardened his own heart. All four of these observations are accurate, depicting the same truth from different perspectives. In this sense, God is responsible for everything in the Universe, i.e., He has provided the occasion, the circumstances, and the environment in which all things (including people) operate. But He is not guilty of wrong in so doing. From a quick look at a simple Hebrew idiom, it is clear that God did not unjustly or directly harden Pharaoh’s heart. God is no respecter of persons (Acts 10:34), He does not act unjustly (Psalms 33:5), and He has always allowed humans to exercise their free moral agency (Deuteronomy 30:19). God, however, does use the wrong, stubborn decisions committed by rebellious sinners to further His causes (Isaiah 10:5-11). In the case of Pharaoh’s hardened heart, God can be charged with no injustice, and the Bible can be charged with no contradiction. Humans were created with free moral agency and are culpable for their own actions.

http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=1205

Where does it say humans were created with free moral agency? Also, you leave that fact that there are evil humans. You act as if Goliath was a not child of the devil, Judas wasn't a child of the devil and many more. The word wicked is used of them. Evil. God's children were never called wicked. They may have done what was wicked in the Lord's eyes but they were not described as wicked. You seem to think because we see this skin of flesh and blood, they are just like us. Please answer though were does it sya we are free moral agencies?

lifeisgood
July 25th, 2013, 02:02 PM
You can read the rest: http://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.CGGWeekly/ID/437/Genesis-1-Free-Moral-Agency.htm

===

This is the eternal picture of man's moral life. God tells us what is right, but then allows us the freedom to determine what we will do. There is no evidence at all that God tricked Adam and Eve into sinning. He did not stack the deck against them, nor did He overpower them. They were free to choose either way. The same act of creation that creates the possibility of moral character also opens the door to sin. Does not God say to Cain in Genesis 4:7, "If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it."

The cause of man's plight is not ignorance of the right, but his own desire, which leads him to substitute his will for the will of God. This simple story illustrates why man's relationship with God has run afoul. By deliberate choice, man separates himself from God, who created him and gives him freedom to choose.

Nothing changes regarding the free-moral agency for the person called of God. When one is forgiven and receives God's Spirit, He does not overpower them. The right to choose freely remains, even as with Adam and Eve. To take away this privilege would truly make the individual a puppet on a string and destroy God's creation of him or her in His spiritual image. God is free to choose and so is man created in God's image. It is this freedom of choice that opens the door for man, through redemption and conversion, to be like God in character.

lifeisgood
July 25th, 2013, 02:14 PM
Also, you leave that fact that there are evil humans. You act as if Goliath was a not child of the devil, Judas wasn't a child of the devil and many more. The word wicked is used of them. Evil. God's children were never called wicked. They may have done what was wicked in the Lord's eyes but they were not described as wicked. You seem to think because we see this skin of flesh and blood, they are just like us. Please answer though were does it sya we are free moral agencies?

You must be answering someone else.

j4jesus09
July 25th, 2013, 02:23 PM
This is the eternal picture of man's moral life. God tells us what is right, but then allows us the freedom to determine what we will do.

Agreed, to a certain extent. How much freedom?



There is no evidence at all that God tricked Adam and Eve into sinning.

Where I highlighted is the problem. No need to go further.The enemy tricked them. So God is not responsible. The only choice presented to them was do NOT eat of the tree of good and evil. There was no other choice presented to them. Was there? No. The serpent came and presented a new CHOICE and they followed it like a lamb to the slaughter. I'm not reading that thread either. I asked you to tell me where the scriptures says just the way you told me we are free moral agencies. You cannot, because it does not exist. Blessings.



He did not stack the deck against them, nor did He overpower them. They were free to choose either way. The same act of creation that creates the possibility of moral character also opens the door to sin. Does not God say to Cain in Genesis 4:7, "If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it."

Is this not the truth? Do you think Cain knew that? Maybe Cain forgot. Maybe Cain didn't care. Maybe God reminded him. What caused Cain to be this way? That's the real question? We see obviously there was sin in Cain's heart. So, we see that God told him what was just and the issue in Cain's heart led him to the first murder.
Sorry, no point of free to do what I want here.



The cause of man's plight is not ignorance of the right, but his own desire, which leads him to substitute his will for the will of God. This simple story illustrates why man's relationship with God has run afoul. By deliberate choice, man separates himself from God, who created him and gives him freedom to choose.

I agree that we do make deliberate choices against God but disagree that we always truly know. Where does this desire come from to disobey God? What did we do to pop this desire up? Did we do it ourselves? Did I think up a desire on my own power to disobey God?


Nothing changes regarding the free-moral agency for the person called of God. When one is forgiven and receives God's Spirit, He does not overpower them. The right to choose freely remains, even as with Adam and Eve. To take away this privilege would truly make the individual a puppet on a string and destroy God's creation of him or her in His spiritual image. God is free to choose and so is man created in God's image. It is this freedom of choice that opens the door for man, through redemption and conversion, to be like God in character.

Sorry, this is what you like to believe. I believe it's because of the sinful flesh that wants to be in control. God does run your life either you believe it or you stay deceived. Blessings.

lifeisgood
July 25th, 2013, 04:39 PM
Agreed, to a certain extent. How much freedom?

The same as a father gives a son after admonishing him not to do something or he will be punished.


Where I highlighted is the problem. No need to go further.The enemy tricked them. So God is not responsible.

Agreed.


The only choice presented to them was do NOT eat of the tree of good and evil. There was no other choice presented to them. Was there? No.

What other choice was needed? If your dad tells you ‘do not do such and such or you will be punished,’ do you need him to tell you anything else?


The serpent came and presented a new CHOICE and they followed it like a lamb to the slaughter. I'm not reading that thread either.

Adam and Eve followed.
God did not force them to follow the other CHOICE.
They could have gone to their Creator and talk to Him about what was going on. They didn’t. Was that God’s fault? No!


I asked you to tell me where the scriptures says just the way you told me we are free moral agencies. You cannot, because it does not exist. Blessings.

God did and you chose to not accept that, and that you can do just like the rest of us. God will not force you to agree with Him. God says, 'do not murder.' Do need another choice?


Is this not the truth? Do you think Cain knew that? Maybe Cain forgot. Maybe Cain didn't care. Maybe God reminded him. What caused Cain to be this way? That's the real question? We see obviously there was sin in Cain's heart. So, we see that God told him what was just and the issue in Cain's heart led him to the first murder.

Absolutely, Cain knew what he was doing when he murdered his brother.


Sorry, no point of free to do what I want here.

Yes, what ‘you want.’


I agree that we do make deliberate choices against God but disagree that we always truly know.

Do you not always know when you do something wrong?
Does not your conscience bother you?


Where does this desire come from to disobey God?

From our dad, Adam, who knowingly did what he knew he should not have done and we are his children, therefore, have his same DNA.


What did we do to pop this desire up?

Nothing, daddy Adam gave it to us.


Did we do it ourselves?

Yes, we do it ourselves.


Did I think up a desire on my own power to disobey God?

It comes naturally; it is part of our nature; we don’t even have to think about it.


Sorry, this is what you like to believe. I believe it's because of the sinful flesh that wants to be in control.

Yes, the sinful flesh wants to be in control and where is that sinful flesh? We come with it.


God does run your life either you believe it or you stay deceived. Blessings.

If God ran my life, I would never, ever, go against Him.
I would be perfect as Jesus Christ was perfect.
I would never, ever commit a sinful act.

However, because God does NOT run my life, I am always having to go back to Him and ask Him to forgive me for my bad deeds. The closer I get to Him, the more my conscience tells me BEFORE I put both feet inside mouth. The choice to listen to my conscience, which is God’s voice, belongs to me.

j4jesus09
July 25th, 2013, 05:36 PM
The same as a father gives a son after admonishing him not to do something or he will be punished.

So it's limited freedom. Not freewill or freedom of choices. you may be in love with the thought you can do whatever, but go ahead try it. You can't because God hasn't created you that way.





What other choice was needed? If your dad tells you ‘do not do such and such or you will be punished,’ do you need him to tell you anything else?

Ummm yes. God tells us things over and over just as we do our sons until they get the understanding.


Adam and Eve followed.
God did not force them to follow the other CHOICE.
They could have gone to their Creator and talk to Him about what was going on. They didn’t. Was that God’s fault? No!

Yes, they followed because they were deceived. Why didn't they go to their creator?



God did and you chose to not accept that, and that you can do just like the rest of us. God will not force you to agree with Him. God says, 'do not murder.' Do need another choice?

Romans 9:19 says Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Where do you get the notion God does not force us to agree with Him from scripture? Because God doesn't physically reach down and shake us. Do you think God doesn't get our attention spiritually? Do you think God won't shake our lives up with circumstances to get our attention? Would you call that's forceful or God trying to show you His love and you need for Him?





Do you not always know when you do something wrong?
Does not your conscience bother you?

You don't always understand. That is what God wants us to have, is understanding. With your getting, get wisdom.



Nothing, daddy Adam gave it to us.



Yes, we do it ourselves.



It comes naturally; it is part of our nature; we don’t even have to think about it.



Yes, the sinful flesh wants to be in control and where is that sinful flesh? We come with it.




If God ran my life, I would never, ever, go against Him.
I would be perfect as Jesus Christ was perfect.
I would never, ever commit a sinful act.

God does run your life. You aren't like Jesus Christ because you were born of a sinful nature. Jesus wasn't. He had the mind like God's which is what we are growing into.


However, because God does NOT run my life, I am always having to go back to Him and ask Him to forgive me for my bad deeds. The closer I get to Him, the more my conscience tells me BEFORE I put both feet inside mouth. The choice to listen to my conscience, which is God’s voice, belongs to me.

So as a man thinks, so is he. If you don't think God runs your life you are mistaken. Jesus was born of God. We can't compare to Jesus. He just wants you to develop the mind of Christ and overcome sins through the power of the Holy Spirit. That's the key. God said the heart of the king is in His hands to turn wherever He chooses, you certainly aren't in the status of a king or high authority. So if He can turn a kings heart He can certainly turn yours.

lifeisgood
July 25th, 2013, 06:13 PM
So it's limited freedom. Not freewill or freedom of choices. you may be in love with the thought you can do whatever, but go ahead try it. You can't because God hasn't created you that way.

I do not look at it as limited freedom when my dad tells me not to do something he knows it is harmful to me. My total freedom comes because I do obey him.


Ummm yes. God tells us things over and over just as we do our sons until they get the understanding.

Yes. However, sometimes we as children go our own way and we get in trouble.


Yes, they followed because they were deceived. Why didn't they go to their creator?

Eve was deceived; Adam knew what was going to happen.

Adam and Eve were created as adults, not as children. They had full mental capacity, they had the ability to have meaningful conversation with God and the ability to understand what was being conveyed.

They chose not to do that.


Romans 9:19 says Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Where do you get the notion God does not force us to agree with Him from scripture? Because God doesn't physically reach down and shake us. Do you think God doesn't get our attention spiritually? Do you think God won't shake our lives up with circumstances to get our attention? Would you call that's forceful or God trying to show you His love and you need for Him?

I would say that when God uses my circumstances to wake me up to Him, He is showing me His love for me. However, I have never felt Him grabbing me by the neck and ‘forcing’ me ever.


You don't always understand. That is what God wants us to have, is understanding. With your getting, get wisdom.

Yes, God wants us to understand. That is why He repeats Himself so many times in His Word.


God does run your life.

Can’t agree with you on this one. God never tells me when to eat, when to sleep, which friends to choose, which career to choose, etc., etc.


You aren't like Jesus Christ because you were born of a sinful nature. Jesus wasn't. He had the mind like God's which is what we are growing into.

Agreed.


So as a man thinks, so is he. If you don't think God runs your life you are mistaken.

If God ran my life, my life would be perfect, because God is perfect. He would not permit me to make a mistake, as He is perfect. As I am not perfect, my life is not perfect, and I do make mistakes, I came to the conclusion that God does not run my life.


Jesus was born of God. We can't compare to Jesus. He just wants you to develop the mind of Christ and overcome sins through the power of the Holy Spirit. That's the key.

Agreed.


God said the heart of the king is in His hands to turn wherever He chooses, you certainly aren't in the status of a king or high authority. So if He can turn a kings heart He can certainly turn yours.

Absolutely He can turn my heart, but He has never forced me to change my heart. He wants His children to be in agreement with Him.

Do you ever ‘force’ your children to do what you want them to do? No!
You ask, you explain, you chastise, you cajole, you push, you pull, etc., but do you ‘force’ them?

My God ask, explain, chastise, cajole me, push me, pulls me, but He never ‘forces’ me. He is patient with me until I understand and agree with Him and turn from my evil ways, however, he never ‘forces’ me to do what I do not want to.

Also, He will not stop me from going through the consequences of going against what He wants from me.

j4jesus09
July 26th, 2013, 10:42 AM
I do not look at it as limited freedom when my dad tells me not to do something he knows it is harmful to me. My total freedom comes because I do obey him.

Amen, liberty in Christ.




Yes. However, sometimes we as children go our own way and we get in trouble.

Agreed.



Eve was deceived; Adam knew what was going to happen.

Adam and Eve were created as adults, not as children. They had full mental capacity, they had the ability to have meaningful conversation with God and the ability to understand what was being conveyed.

They chose not to do that.

How do you know Adam comprehended what was going to happen? Why did they choose not to?



I would say that when God uses my circumstances to wake me up to Him, He is showing me His love for me. However, I have never felt Him grabbing me by the neck and ‘forcing’ me ever.

Love is a force. He forces you with His love to get right. I thank God for that. Force is not a negative as we always tend to look at it today.



Yes, God wants us to understand. That is why He repeats Himself so many times in His Word.

yep



Can’t agree with you on this one. God never tells me when to eat, when to sleep, which friends to choose, which career to choose, etc., etc..

He doesn't tell you He just orders your footsteps. Basically He directed your mind to wherever it is that you choose to eat, sleep, etc.






If God ran my life, my life would be perfect, because God is perfect. He would not permit me to make a mistake, as He is perfect. As I am not perfect, my life is not perfect, and I do make mistakes, I came to the conclusion that God does not run my life.

Your life is perfect in Christ. God can still run your life and permit you to make a mistake. We can't be perfect because of our fallen nature. If you came to the conclusion that God does not run your life, then I suggest you start letting Him run your life.



Agreed.




Absolutely He can turn my heart, but He has never forced me to change my heart. He wants His children to be in agreement with Him.

God say HE turns the kings heart WHEREVER HE CHOOSES. Where did you get out of that scripture He won't force you. It didn't say as long as the king is in agreement.


Do you ever ‘force’ your children to do what you want them to do? No!
You ask, you explain, you chastise, you cajole, you push, you pull, etc., but do you ‘force’ them?

Yes of course with love though. If I feel like it will hurt my child, you are dang right I will force them. They will come to understand later. I have a 8,7,7,and 3 year old. And sometimes it's needed.

Proverbs 23:13 Do not withhold correction from a child,
For if you beat him with a rod, he will not die.



My God ask, explain, chastise, cajole me, push me, pulls me, but He never ‘forces’ me. He is patient with me until I understand and agree with Him and turn from my evil ways, however, he never ‘forces’ me to do what I do not want to. Also, He will not stop me from going through the consequences of going against what He wants from me.

If God does all these things to you what makes you think He is not forcing you in a gentle loving and kind manner. God can force you through ways unimaginable. The problem is you think force is strictly about dogmatic, punch you in the mouth, you better get right. He might do that to if you need it. You should read the story of Balaam and the donkey. Since you think God doesn't force. What did the angel of the Lord do. Had his sword drawn. God caused the donkey to kick throw Balaam off and had the donkey talk. God runs it all. We would be mindful to focus and believe that.

lifeisgood
July 31st, 2013, 10:15 PM
How do you know Adam comprehended what was going to happen?

If the Bible tells me that Adam was not deceived (1 Timothy 2:14), that means that he did comprehend what was going to happen. He chose to rebel against God's instructions because of his free will.


Why did they choose not to?

They were created with free will and they used it.


Love is a force. He forces you with His love to get right. I thank God for that. Force is not a negative as we always tend to look at it today.

Yes, love is a force. However, love does not force.


He doesn't tell you He just orders your footsteps. Basically He directed your mind to wherever it is that you choose to eat, sleep, etc.

I do not agree. It this is true, then He would have created me as a robot.


Your life is perfect in Christ. God can still run your life and permit you to make a mistake. We can't be perfect because of our fallen nature. If you came to the conclusion that God does not run your life, then I suggest you start letting Him run your life.

I do not believe God wants to run my life. I believe He wants me to want to follow Him.


God say HE turns the kings heart WHEREVER HE CHOOSES. Where did you get out of that scripture He won't force you. It didn't say as long as the king is in agreement.

God can do anything He wants, however, I do not believe God, even though He turns the king’s heart, that He does the turning by force.


Yes of course with love though. If I feel like it will hurt my child, you are dang right I will force them. They will come to understand later. I have a 8,7,7,and 3 year old. And sometimes it's needed.

Proverbs 23:13 Do not withhold correction from a child,
For if you beat him with a rod, he will not die.

You can probably ‘force’ your child to do something in a particular moment, but when you are not looking? Then what? His/her free will kicks in. Hopefully, they will believe your instructions and choose to follow them.


If God does all these things to you what makes you think He is not forcing you in a gentle loving and kind manner. God can force you through ways unimaginable. The problem is you think force is strictly about dogmatic, punch you in the mouth, you better get right. He might do that to if you need it. You should read the story of Balaam and the donkey. Since you think God doesn't force. What did the angel of the Lord do. Had his sword drawn. God caused the donkey to kick throw Balaam off and had the donkey talk. God runs it all. We would be mindful to focus and believe that.

If God runs it all, there would not have been a need for Jesus Christ to die on the Cross of Calvary, and we know that He did die on the Cross.

If God runs it all, then there will not be one person in Hell; however, the Bible says otherwise.

If God runs it all, then every single person in the world will be in Heaven; however, we know that is not so.

There is the ‘free will’ God created human beings with that accounts for that rebellion against what God wants and no amount of ‘forcing’ is going to make a person get out of that rebellion, IMO.

Christian Liberty
August 1st, 2013, 10:05 AM
Predestination appears like everywhere in the Bible.

I avoided believing it for a long time but I don't understand how I did that...

lifeisgood
August 1st, 2013, 04:27 PM
Predestination appears like everywhere in the Bible.

I avoided believing it for a long time but I don't understand how I did that...

What is predestined is the Plan of Salvation, not the person.

If you are in the predestined Plan of Salvation, then you have become predestined because you are in Christ.

God would be unjust if he sent part of His Own Creation to Hell with no fault of their own, wouldn't you say?

beloved57
September 4th, 2013, 02:57 AM
Rev 17:14

14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

All whom God chose in Christ before the foundation as per Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Now each of them chosen in Christ before the foundation, shall in time, sometime during their earthly pilgrimage or existence, before physical death claims them [therefore preserved/kept Jude 1:1], they shall be called to be saints 1 Cor 1:2,24

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Jude 1:1

Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

They are called to be saints by the Gospel and the Spirit, and at that call they are converted and made Faithful, they shall faithfully follow Christ.

That word faithful in Rev 17:14 is the word pistos and means:

"faithful, to be trusted, reliable

in the Active sense means "believing, trusting;"

It basically denotes they shall live by Faith permanently, always trusting and relying upon the promises of God in Christ.

The key to this blessedness is once having been chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4. It does not matter who, when or where, if Chosen in Him before the foundation, they shall become faithful or believers, and that constantly and permanently.

beloved57
September 4th, 2013, 07:03 AM
There is only one call when it comes to Salvation, but that one Call serves two distinct purposes, one for Salvation [In the case of the Elect] and in this case it [The Call] is accompanied with the Working of the Spirit, bringing the Gospel Called Elect into the belief of the Truth or to the obedience of Faith. 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Yes, the Call of the Gospel here Vs 14 issues into belief of the Truth Vs 13 !

However this same Gospel call that issues into belief of the Truth to the Chosen, it is to the non elect a stumbling block, not a call to faith, but to accountability in believing the Testimony of the Gospel of God.

God is not calling them[non elect] to Gospel obedience, He is not interested in them obeying the Gospel simply because He made them the children of disobedience Eph 2:2; In the greek it reads the sons of the disobedience denoting by the definite article that they are specifically a group marked out for disobedience, like what Peter mentions here 1 Pet 2:8

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

God does not appoint people to disobedience and then change His Mind and Call them to obedience !

That word appointed means destined to be ! Now they, the children of disobedience are all those who contrary to the Chosen to Salvation, are appointed to wrath 1 Thess 5:9

For God hath not appointed us to wrath[as some He did], but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

The word appointed here is the same as in 1 Pet 2:8. God is not interested in any obedience to those He purposed to disobedience, for that would be contrary to His Divine Purpose for them, for He has appointed them to wrath, and that they shall not obey the Gospel and be saved as Per 2 Thess 2:9-12

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

God's will for them is to always believe a lie, what is false, which He Himself sends them strong delusion to believe, no matter how much the do hear the Truth. But unto them God hath Chosen from the Beginning [of the World] to Salvation, they are contrary to those not chosen, they are called by the Gospel to belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Thats the contrast between the Elect and non elect within the Gospel Call, one it is for their Salvation and the other for their accountability and condemnation !

beloved57
September 4th, 2013, 09:27 AM
Now Election or being Chosen by God in Christ before the foundation is the ground of our calling by the Gospel Eph 1:4,13, but we cannot know of our Election of God until we are called, Thats why Paul writes here 1 Thess 1:4-5

4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

So Paul knows they were chosen by their reception of the Gospel.

Peter writes 2 Pet 1:10

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Because He knows that the Elect are Called Acts 2:39

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Which call is amongst both jews and gentiles Rom 9:24

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

So calling that results in belief of the Truth, that call gives evidence of our Election of God, so Peter says to them make your calling and election sure; Calling occurs in time, but Election before time, and those who believe, are caused to be Faithful.

beloved57
September 12th, 2013, 12:32 AM
Acts 2:39,47

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Not all men are called of the Lord to be saved ! Thats why Peter wisely says under the guidance of the Spirit here " even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

For this particular Call is only for a remnant out of mankind, as is stated here Joel 2:32

32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.

What remnant is meant here ? First it means this remnant Rom 11:5

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

A remnant according to the Election of Grace from amongst the jews, the physical seed of Abraham, BUT also it applies equally to a remnant according to the Election of Grace from amongst non jews, Gentiles who are of Abraham's Spiritual Seed Acts 15:14-18

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Remember Paul's writing to the Church at Corinth which included Gentiles, He called them the Called 1 Cor 1:22-24

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

In the greek its the called , with the definite article, so its only one specific called people !

The called here is from amongst the jews and the greeks /gentiles ! Its stated here also in Rom 9:23-24

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

This call is not to all mankind in general and all without exception, but is restricted to the Remnant according to Election of Grace from amongst the jews and the Gentiles.

This Call is under the New Covenant administration of the Gospel.

Now one last point needs to looked at and understood in regards to the Called here Matt 22:14

14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

The Call here is under the Old Covenant administration, and it regards mainly to the Physical Nation of Israel, which was a called out assembly, a Church Acts 7:38

This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

The word church here is the greek word ekklésia:

an assembly, congregation, church; the Church, the whole body of Christian believers

And its made up of Two Greek words ek or ex which means:

from out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards

And the word kaleó which means:

I call, summon, invite, (b) I call, name.

So Israel National were the called out ones.

And that is the Many that were called, but within that Nation, only few belonged to the Chosen of God or His Elect, those Chosen to Salvation through Christ.

Remember the called out assembly from egypt and through the red sea under Moses ? It was Many, a large multitude, but only a few of them were Chosen of God to Salvation, and its always been like that throughout OT history of Israel the Nation. Remember Elijah's day ? Paul refers to it here Rom 11:2-5

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

During Isaiah time Isa 1:9

9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

That means few were chosen in Israel. So the matt 22:14 passage means many jews were called into assembly, but few belonged to the Chosen Remnant, the Election of Grace !

beloved57
February 24th, 2014, 07:48 AM
Rom 1:1-7

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

God has a special called people, special to Him above all other People in the World, we know them in the scripture as God's Own Elect, but also they are known in scripture as " the called of Jesus Christ" for they are as Paul was here called by Grace Gal 1:15

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

Also, note : Those who are eventually called by God's Grace, had a Covenant Relationship with God through Christ from their Mothers Womb as the writer of Psalms states here Ps 22:10

10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

Now this Grace whereby they are Called by, it was given to them in Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

*** with the call of the Apostle on the road to Damascus, and effectual call of Grace is issued to all the Elect of God, The Vessels of Mercy, in fact its given to all who are the Called of Jesus Christ, the Head of His Body the Church , as was Paul Rom 1:1

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Now understand, even though all the Called of Jesus Christ are not called to the role of an Apostle as was Paul, they nevertheless were called and set in the Body as an gifted member as was Paul and the other Apostles 1 Cor 12:27-28

27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

All of Christ's members of His Body are equally important to Him,even though some may have more prominent roles, for example, the baby toe is just as important as the arm, though the arm plays a much prominent part in the function of the Body !

So when the lesser role members are called, they are called just as effectually and set into their role in the Body as were the Apostles. In Vs 28 the word set is used , its the greek word Tithemi and means:

to make (or set) for one's self or for one's use

to set, fix establish to set forth
to establish, ordain

It means appointed for Jesus Christ's Use, it means Chosen. Remember It was said of Paul here Acts 9:15

But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

That's how it is with every member of Christ's Body, but the difference being all the Members of His Body were not chosen to the same Role of an Apostle as Paul was here !

Now with this said, what is often overlooked and neglected is the fact the Paul makes it clear that the Roman believers had also been the recipient of the same kind of effectual call as he himself had been, when he writes in Rom 1:6

6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

They are in fact as described here Isa 48:12

12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

Later Paul says of both jew and gentile believers including himself Rom 9:23-24

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

The Us here stands for the Called of Jesus Christ , Paul was called just like the ordinary believer was, Just to a higher role as an Apostle , for he was no more an Vessel of Mercy as they were, for all of God's Vessels of Mercy are very Special to Him !

God's Truth
February 24th, 2014, 08:35 AM
Appreciate that. Question, in Romans 9 when God said for this purpose He hardened Pharaoh's heart that HE might show His power to Israel. Where does the scripture said pharaoh had a choice to change?

If Pharaoh were born without the capability of choosing God, as Calvinists claim, then why would God need to harden a heart that could not believe anyway?

beloved57
February 24th, 2014, 12:39 PM
Now Paul was not Called more effectually than any other of the Called of Jesus Christ are called, it was merely more dramatic of a call and of course it put him in a different role[In His Body] than most, that of an Apostle ! This call as Paul's was, was according to the Sovereign Will of God in Christ 1 Cor 1:1

Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

Others were called to be: helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

The Call appoints different administrations, but the same Lord.

That word administrations is the greek word Diakonia and primarily means:

service, ministering, esp. of those who execute the commands of others
of those who by the command of God proclaim and promote religion among men

All for whom Christ died are redeemed to a spiritual service/ministry or role of some type Rom 12:4-8

4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;

8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

Even before Called in time to service, the Called of Jesus Christ, they were in the Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus [sanctified] before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

And Jude 1:1

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

These verses point that Out ! So this Called is pecuiliar only to God's Elect among mankind and not mankid in general !

Now of course some objectors will ask about Matt 20:16

16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

Matt 22:14

14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Yes, those verses make reference to being called, many being called, versus few being chosen, but those verses are not speaking about the Called of Jesus Christ, the Called in both of these refer to national Israel, its an national covenant call and its historical development of which only a few were ever chosen, a remnant according to the Election of Grace, So those who are called in those portion of scripture, are not the Called of Jesus Christ !

Nanja
February 24th, 2014, 04:09 PM
Rom 1:1-7

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

God has a special called people, special to Him above all other People in the World, we know them in the scripture as God's Own Elect, but also they are known in scripture as " the called of Jesus Christ" for they are as Paul was here called by Grace Gal 1:15

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

Also, note : Those who are eventually called by God's Grace, had a Covenant Relationship with God through Christ from their Mothers Womb as the writer of Psalms states here Ps 22:10

10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

Now this Grace whereby they are Called by, it was given to them in Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

*** with the call of the Apostle on the road to Damascus, and effectual call of Grace is issued to all the Elect of God, The Vessels of Mercy, in fact its given to all who are the Called of Jesus Christ, the Head of His Body the Church , as was Paul Rom 1:1

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Now understand, even though all the Called of Jesus Christ are not called to the role of an Apostle as was Paul, they nevertheless were called and set in the Body as an gifted member as was Paul and the other Apostles 1 Cor 12:27-28

27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

All of Christ's members of His Body are equally important to Him,even though some may have more prominent roles, for example, the baby toe is just as important as the arm, though the arm plays a much prominent part in the function of the Body !

So when the lesser role members are called, they are called just as effectually and set into their role in the Body as were the Apostles. In Vs 28 the word set is used , its the greek word Tithemi and means:

to make (or set) for one's self or for one's use

to set, fix establish to set forth
to establish, ordain

It means appointed for Jesus Christ's Use, it means Chosen. Remember It was said of Paul here Acts 9:15

But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

That's how it is with every member of Christ's Body, but the difference being all the Members of His Body were not chosen to the same Role of an Apostle as Paul was here !

Now with this said, what is often overlooked and neglected is the fact the Paul makes it clear that the Roman believers had also been the recipient of the same kind of effectual call as he himself had been, when he writes in Rom 1:6

6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

They are in fact as described here Isa 48:12

12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

Later Paul says of both jew and gentile believers including himself Rom 9:23-24

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

The Us here stands for the Called of Jesus Christ , Paul was called just like the ordinary believer was, Just to a higher role as an Apostle , for he was no more an Vessel of Mercy as they were, for all of God's Vessels of Mercy are very Special to Him !



Amen, this is so true. God calls and draws each one of them according to His Divine Purpose, and each
of them has their own Damascus Road conversion experience. All of these chosen vessels of mercy are
Christ's treasured, special possession because He purchased them with His own Blood!

~~~~~

beloved57
February 24th, 2014, 05:40 PM
Amen, this is so true. God calls and draws each one of them according to His Divine Purpose, and each
of them has their own Damascus Road conversion experience. All of these chosen vessels of mercy are
Christ's treasured, special possession because He purchased them with His own Blood!

~~~~~

Amen !

beloved57
February 25th, 2014, 08:20 AM
The called of Jesus Christ is an effectual call and a irresistible call which does effect, bring into fruition the Purpose of God, its a Call by God's Purpose that effects it in time like here in the Call of Paul's Ministry Eph 3:7

7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

I want to highlight something here in this verse, Paul says he was made a minister or servant. The word made here is the greek word Ginomai and its a Creation word which means:


to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen of events

to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage of men appearing in public

to be made, finished of miracles, to be performed, wrought

to become, be made

So this being made a Servant / Minister is a Creation of God's Power and Grace and Spirit, and this is not something that mans freewill has anything to do with, for man has no part in what God purposed to make or Create by the Effectual working of His Power !

This verse Eph 3:7 is describing the mechanics of his being called by the Grace of God as stated here Gal 1:15

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

And all the Called of Jesus Christ [members of His Body] shall experience that same effectual working of His Power [the effectual call] , thus being made willing in the DAY OF HIS POWER as forecasted here Ps 110:3

3 Thy people [The Church] shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

Paul was made willing in the Day of Christ's Power towards Acts 9:6

6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

See how inn the day of Christ's Power he was made willing ? Now where was Christ at the Time ? Was He not in the place spoken of here in the Psalm 110:1-3

The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

2 The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

Christ was then when He called Paul by His Irrestible Power at the Right Hand of the Majesty on High ! Heb 1:3

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

That's the Day of His Power, remember He told His called disciples Matt 28:18

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

That's the Power exercised upon all whom are the Called of Jesus Christ !

beloved57
February 25th, 2014, 11:55 PM
This being called of Jesus Christ, is not according to our works [anything done by us] 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

This is a huge truth that needs to be reemphasized, that the Call of Grace in Time by the Eternal Spirit of God, in behalf of Christ, is brought about and effected, not by our works, or making a decision , or by the mythical freewill of ours, nor because of any act of ours, but according to God's Own Purpose and Grace given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, a call also grounded in God's Purpose of Eternal Election Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

beloved57
February 26th, 2014, 11:53 PM
Other names for that specific and special call of Jesus Christ are #1 The High Calling of which Christ apprehends the called one Phil 3:14

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Vs 12 says :

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

The word Katalambano and means:

to lay hold of to lay hold of so as to make one's own, to obtain, attain to, to make one's own, to take into one's self, appropriate

of Christ by his holy power and influence laying hold of the human mind and will, in order to prompt and govern it

That's the end result of that Call !

Its an Heavenly Calling Heb 3:1

Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Its an Holy Calling 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

beloved57
May 19th, 2014, 05:09 PM
Rom 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Now who are exactly the Called according to His Purpose ? Tat would be the Elect of God, for they are called according to God's Purpose of Election Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

Its also grounded in God's Purpose and Grace 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Which is the Purpose of the Election of Grace Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the[Purpose]of election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Now understand something, all men are not recipients of this Call, not objects of it.

There is a calling that is strictly limited to the Called as Per 1 Cor 1:23-24

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

In the greek its "τοῖς κλητοῖς " the definite article identifes them as a distinct group apart from all others, they are even the Called the Chosen here 1 Cor 1:26-28

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

So there is a Called which has been Chosen !

beloved57
May 19th, 2014, 05:35 PM
Now many adversaries like to appeal to Matt 20:16; 22:14, which scriptures indicate that many are called but few chosen, hence making a difference between the Called and the Chosen ! This is True in these cases, but we deny that the called in those Two verses are the Called of Rom 8:28 ! We believe the called but not chosen in Matt 20:16; 22:14 refers to the Many of national israel, Abraham's natural , physical descendants, his children of the flesh Rom 9:8 but not of the promise ! Paul shows the difference here Rom 11:7

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election or chosen hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

The Many here was Called National Israel, but the Chosen or Election was the few !

Now the Election of Rom 11:7 would be the same ones in Rom 9:11 which are according to God's Purpose of Election being called ! Which would be the same ones out of the jews that belonged to the Called of Rom 8:28 called according to His Purpose; which He also foreknew Rom 8:28-29

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

And of course those He foreknew were His People Rom 11:2

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

The foreknew are the chosen here in Matt 20:16; 22:14. I took the time to explain that the Called in the Epistles as regard Salvation are also the Chosen or Elect, whereas in the Matthew verses it means only to the called physical descendants of Abraham that formulated the physical nation, but not of the elect of that nation !

So Rom 8:28 is restricted to the Called according to the Purpose of God's Election Rom 9:11 !

tomlapalm
May 20th, 2014, 12:28 PM
you are placing the wrong meaning on the sequence.

exolain the different meanings for

calling
forewknowing

predestine

conformed

justified

glorified

beloved57
May 20th, 2014, 01:12 PM
you are placing the wrong meaning on the sequence.

exolain the different meanings for

calling
forewknowing

predestine

conformed

justified

glorified

Now many adversaries like to appeal to Matt 20:16; 22:14, which scriptures indicate that many are called but few chosen, hence making a difference between the Called and the Chosen ! This is True in these cases, but we deny that the called in those Two verses are the Called of Rom 8:28 ! We believe the called but not chosen in Matt 20:16; 22:14 refers to the Many of national israel, Abraham's natural , physical descendants, his children of the flesh Rom 9:8 but not of the promise ! Paul shows the difference here Rom 11:7

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election or chosen hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

The Many here was Called National Israel, but the Chosen or Election was the few !

Now the Election of Rom 11:7 would be the same ones in Rom 9:11 which are according to God's Purpose of Election being called ! Which would be the same ones out of the jews that belonged to the Called of Rom 8:28 called according to His Purpose; which He also foreknew Rom 8:28-29

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

And of course those He foreknew were His People Rom 11:2

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

The foreknew are the chosen here in Matt 20:16; 22:14. I took the time to explain that the Called in the Epistles as regard Salvation are also the Chosen or Elect, whereas in the Matthew verses it means only to the called physical descendants of Abraham that formulated the physical nation, but not of the elect of that nation !

So Rom 8:28 is restricted to the Called according to the Purpose of God's Election Rom 9:11 !


Posted from the TOL App!

God's Truth
May 20th, 2014, 01:37 PM
If Pharaoh were born without the capability of choosing God, as Calvinists claim, then why would God need to harden a heart that could not believe anyway?

Any Calvinists want to answer this?

beloved57
May 20th, 2014, 02:59 PM
Any Calvinists want to answer this?

For His Purpose !

God's Truth
May 20th, 2014, 03:24 PM
For His Purpose !

You did not answer the question.

WHY did God have need to harden someone who cannot believe and obey anyway without the enabling of God?

Why did God have to harden Pharaoh, if Pharaoh could not believe and obey God anyway?

beloved57
May 20th, 2014, 03:48 PM
gt


Why did God have to harden Pharaoh, if Pharaoh could not believe and obey God anyway?


For His Purpose !

beloved57
June 1st, 2014, 05:10 PM
There is a selected group among mankind that are the Called or the Called of Jesus Christ, Paul calls them " Us whome He hath called" Rom 9:24

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Now these are special in that they are sanctified before they are called by the Gospel 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Sanctification of the Spirit goes before the call of the Gospel, and in fact prepares for it !

Another scripture to this purport Jude 1:1

Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

And these sanctified ones who are called, by that caling they are manifested as the Elect of God, so Peter writes of a calling and election 2 Pet 1:10

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

This also lends credence to the Fact that its the Elect who are called by the Gospel !

beloved57
June 2nd, 2014, 03:35 AM
The Call of the Gospel is not to lost souls, but to souls that have been saved, and because they have been saved or are being saved, that is why they are called 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Notice Paul wrote who Saved us, then and Called us with an Holy Calling ! The Gospel does not call lost and unholy sinners to Faith and fellowship in Christ !

One is not called in order to get saved, but one is Called because they have been saved and are being saved.

When the Gospel is preached to the called 1 Cor 1:23-24

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

In the greek its to them the called, with the definite article, distinguishing them from the rest of mankind,

when they are being Called, they are being saved Vs 18 1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

So the ones being saved here in Vs 18 are synomonous to the ones being Called in Vs 24, they're the being saved and being called !

In Vs 18 they are being Saved by the Gospel as the Power of God See also Rom 1:16 !

They are being saved and called out of darkness into the Marvelous Light of the Gospel 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light [of the Gospel];

They are called out of the darkness of false religion and gospels, into the light of the saving knowledge of the Gospel !

Note: A saving knowledge of Salvation is to be informed of ones Salvation Lk 1:77 !

Thats a Saving also, that is to be sovereignly called out of the darkness and error of Antichrist religion Rev 18:4 into the Glorious Light of the Gospel of Jesus Christ !

Grosnick Marowbe
June 2nd, 2014, 06:43 AM
When can we expect B57 to create a thread about, how God
creates ALL sin, and evil? After all, that's what he says he
believes!

beloved57
June 2nd, 2014, 06:45 AM
When can we expect B57 to create a thread about, how God
creates ALL sin, and evil? After all, that's what he says he
believes!

Did you understand post 156 above and the points I made ? Review it and discuss the points !

Grosnick Marowbe
June 2nd, 2014, 06:48 AM
Did you understand post 156 above and the points I made ? Review it and discuss the points !

Your "points" always have a "hyper-Calvinist slant!" What's
the use?

Nanja
June 2nd, 2014, 06:55 AM
The Call of the Gospel is not to lost souls, but to souls that have been saved, and because they have been saved or are being saved, that is why they are called 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Notice Paul wrote who Saved us, then and Called us with an Holy Calling ! The Gospel does not call lost and unholy sinners to Faith and fellowship in Christ !

One is not called in order to get saved, but one is Called because they have been saved and are being saved.

When the Gospel is preached to the called 1 Cor 1:23-24

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

In the greek its to them the called, with the definite article, distinguishing them from the rest of mankind,

when they are being Called, they are being saved Vs 18 1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

So the ones being saved here in Vs 18 are synomonous to the ones being Called in Vs 24, they're the being saved and being called !

In Vs 18 they are being Saved by the Gospel as the Power of God See also Rom 1:16 !

They are being saved and called out of darkness into the Marvelous Light of the Gospel 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light [of the Gospel];

They are called out of the darkness of false religion and gospels, into the light of the saving knowledge of the Gospel !

Note: A saving knowledge of Salvation is to be informed of ones Salvation Lk 1:77 !

Thats a Saving also, that is to be sovereignly called out of the darkness and error of Antichrist religion Rev 18:4 into the Glorious Light of the Gospel of Jesus Christ !

Amen!

False religions erroneously teach that the call of the Gospel goes out to all of mankind. But, on the contrary,
it is "an holy calling" 2 Tim. 1:9 KJV to those who are called, chosen and predestinated to become saved:

Rom 8:28-30 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God,
to them who are the called according to his purpose. v.29 For whom he did foreknow,
he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn
among many brethren. v.30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called:
and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

According as God has Purposed, these will be ministered to with the Gospel of their Salvation Eph. 1:13 KJV.

~~~~~

Grosnick Marowbe
June 2nd, 2014, 06:58 AM
Amen!

False religions erroneously teach that the call of the Gospel goes out to all of mankind.

Yet, another "Calvinist" heard from!

beloved57
June 2nd, 2014, 07:02 AM
Your "points" always have a "hyper-Calvinist slant!" What's
the use?

See ya at the Judgment then !

beloved57
June 2nd, 2014, 07:07 AM
nanja




False religions erroneously teach that the call of the Gospel goes out to all of mankind. But, on the contrary,
it is "an holy calling" 2 Tim. 1:9 KJV to those who are called, chosen and predestinated to become saved:


Yes its an Holy Calling unto a Holy People. The Call of the Gospel to the saved is for fellowship with Christ 1 Cor 1:9

9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

And Christ does not fellowship with darkness and unrighteousness ! 2 Cor 6:14

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Nanja
June 2nd, 2014, 02:05 PM
beloved

Yes its an Holy Calling unto a Holy People. The Call of the Gospel to the saved is for fellowship with Christ 1 Cor 1:9

9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

And Christ does not fellowship with darkness and unrighteousness ! 2 Cor 6:14

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?


Yes. That proves that the Call of the Gospel is to those who are already Born of the Spirit.
For one that is still in the flesh cannot have fellowship with Christ who is spiritual John 3:6 KJV.

~~~~~

beloved57
June 2nd, 2014, 02:18 PM
nanja


Yes. That proves that the Call of the Gospel is to those who are already Born of the Spirit.

Of a Truth Jn 18:37

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.


For one that is still in the flesh cannot have fellowship with Christ who is spiritual John 3:6 KJV.

Thats right !

beloved57
August 31st, 2014, 04:32 AM
Rom 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

The Called here are those whom are the Vessels of Mercy in Rom 9:23-24

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

And of course the Vessels of Mercy are within God's Purpose of Election Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

So thats who are the Called according to God's Purpose in Rom 8:28, The Elect, or the Vessels of Mercy, and none else !

Nanja
August 31st, 2014, 06:19 AM
Rom 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

The Called here are those whom are the Vessels of Mercy in Rom 9:23-24

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

And of course the Vessels of Mercy are within God's Purpose of Election Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

So thats who are the Called according to God's Purpose in Rom 8:28, The Elect, or the Vessels of Mercy, and none else !



True. And I believe the Called in Rom. 8:28 are the same ones given to Christ as His Seed
Psalm 22:30 KJV; John 17:2 KJV; the same as the Election of Grace Rom 11:5; Eph. 1:4; Acts 13:48!

~~~~~

beloved57
August 31st, 2014, 06:53 AM
True. And I believe the Called in Rom. 8:28 are the same ones given to Christ as His Seed
Psalm 22:30 KJV; John 17:2 KJV; the same as the Election of Grace Rom 11:5; Eph. 1:4; Acts 13:48!

~~~~~

Yes indeed !

Posted from the TOL App!

beloved57
September 12th, 2014, 10:30 PM
Jn 10:3-4

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

This Call is strictly for the Sheep of Christ,His Own Sheep, which He laid down His Life for Jn 10:11,15

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

These His Own Sheep do Hear His Voice, because of Jn 18:37

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

They are of the Truth, which speaks of New Birth, they are born out the Word of God 1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

If we are born out of the Truth, then and only then do we Hear the Truths Voice Jn 14:6

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Now this is a Call to His Sheep that are spiritually prepared to hear it, and His Own Sheep not only of the jews, but His Own Sheep out of the Gentiles as well, Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

They shall hear His Voice just as it was stated of them in Jn 10:3-4

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

Many deceivers tell us that these other Sheep of Jn 10:16 is still speaking of jews, but thats a lie, its Gentiles. There is a Sheep call unto the Gentiles and they shall hear His Voice. Thats what Paul means here Acts 28:28
Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

And also here Rom 9:24

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

That word called kaleō is the same word John used here Jn 10:3

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

Again, A Special call to follow Jesus that is only for His Own Sheep, whether jew or Gentile !

lifeisgood
September 13th, 2014, 07:41 AM
True. And I believe the Called in Rom. 8:28 are the same ones given to Christ as His Seed
Psalm 22:30 KJV; John 17:2 KJV; the same as the Election of Grace Rom 11:5; Eph. 1:4; Acts 13:48!

~~~~~

No one has ever been able to tell me how a person know he/she is one of the called.

Grosnick Marowbe
September 13th, 2014, 07:43 AM
No one has ever been able to tell me how a person know he/she is one of the called.

Good point!

Nanja
September 13th, 2014, 07:44 AM
Jn 10:3-4

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

This Call is strictly for the Sheep of Christ,His Own Sheep, which He laid down His Life for Jn 10:11,15

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

These His Own Sheep do Hear His Voice, because of Jn 18:37

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

They are of the Truth, which speaks of New Birth, they are born out the Word of God 1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

If we are born out of the Truth, then and only then do we Hear the Truths Voice Jn 14:6

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Now this is a Call to His Sheep that are spiritually prepared to hear it, and His Own Sheep not only of the jews, but His Own Sheep out of the Gentiles as well, Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

They shall hear His Voice just as it was stated of them in Jn 10:3-4

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

Many deceivers tell us that these other Sheep of Jn 10:16 is still speaking of jews, but thats a lie, its Gentiles. There is a Sheep call unto the Gentiles and they shall hear His Voice. Thats what Paul means here Acts 28:28
Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

And also here Rom 9:24

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

That word called kaleō is the same word John used here Jn 10:3

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

Again, A Special call to follow Jesus that is only for His Own Sheep, whether jew or Gentile !



All Christ's Sheep comprise the Israel He gave His Life for, Jew or Gentile.

Is. 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation:
ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

And they all know and hear His Voice ☺

For Salvation has nothing to do with ethnicity, 1 Cor. 1:24
but has everything to do with individuals God elected to Salvation
from all the ends of the earth Is. 45:22-25 KJV; a remnant Saved by Grace,
also described as the Election of Grace Rom. 11:5; whom God elected
before He created the earth Acts 15:14-18, Eph. 1:4-7: 2 Tim. 1:9.
These are the Sheep who were redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb
1 Pet. 1:18-20: Who is The Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb. 13:20.

~~~~~

Grosnick Marowbe
September 13th, 2014, 07:45 AM
B57 has a partner in crime! That would be, Nanja!

beloved57
September 23rd, 2014, 02:21 PM
Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

Rom 9:7

Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

Its a sure Call of the Seed ! Did you know that those who are God's Elect according to His Purpose of Election in Christ, that they receive a specfic and particular calling from God ?

Thats what Paul means by Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

Its a Call according to God's Purpose [of Election] Rom 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did
them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

The Call of the purpose of Election is also identified again in the context of Rom 9 here Rom 9:23-24

Even us, whom he hath called[of the vessels of Mercy], not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

beloved57
September 23rd, 2014, 11:24 PM
The Call of the Election as God's Purpose is taught in the scripture, for one here Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

Yet this something Jesus taught earlier in His Ministry regarding His Sheep and their Call by Him, for Christ's Sheep and God's Elect are the very same people.

Now the Sheep of Christ are called by Him in the Purpose of Election Jn 10:3-4

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

This call of His own Sheep results in their hearing His Voice and their following Him. Its also called " the putting them forth "

Thats what the Effectual Call does, it puts the Sheep forth ! The words put forth are the greek ekballō and means:


I.to cast out, drive out, to send out
A.
with notion of violence
i.
to drive out (cast out)

ii.
to cast out
a.
of the world, i.e. be deprived of the power and influence he exercises in the world

b.
a thing: excrement from the belly into the sink


iii.
to expel a person from a society: to banish from a family

iv.
to compel one to depart; to bid one depart, in stern though not violent language

v.
so employed that the rapid motion of the one going is transferred to the one sending forth
a.
to command or cause one to depart in haste


vi.
to draw out with force, tear out

vii.
with implication of force overcoming opposite force
a.
to cause a thing to move straight on its intended goal


viii.
to reject with contempt, to cast off or away


B.
without the notion of violence
i.
to draw out, extract, one thing inserted in another

ii.
to bring out of, to draw or bring forth

iii.
to except, to leave out, i.e. not receive

iv.
to lead one forth or away somewhere with a force which he cannot resist


Again this is a Effectual and Irresistible Call to follow Christ issued out to His Own Sheep, the Elect of God. This is also being Illustrated what today men call Irresistible Grace of the hated TULIP Doctrines of Grace !

beloved57
September 24th, 2014, 12:00 AM
The Call of Christ's Sheep, wherein He calls them by name, having written their names in His Lambs Book of Life, His Call makes them follow Him, and again this Call is specifically for His Own Sheep, or God's Elect, for they're the same. Now by this Call they are given ears to Hear His Voice Jn 10:3

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. Cp with Jn 18:37

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Again this is a Call to His Own Sheep, which is not limited to only some of the jews, but it calls by name His Own Sheep of the Gentiles Jn 10:16

16 And other [of the Gentile Nations] sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice [when He calls them by name]; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

This is exactly the same as when Paul writes of them which are Vessels of Mercy, not only of the jews but also of the Gentiles Rom 9:23-24

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

And again this Call is that of God's Purpose of Election Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

beloved57
December 5th, 2014, 11:12 PM
Rom 8:30

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

All who are the Called are the Justified. In our text above, those whom God has called He justified, and its not even up for debate, hence if they have been called according to God's Purpose Rom 8:28

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Now these are Justified, yes even before they believe, for they had to be called before they could believe, that is called by the Gospel 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Also Sanctification of the Spirit preceded the Call of the Gospel and the Belief of the Truth !

Those who are Called by the Gospel have been already Justified, made Righteous by the Obedience of Christ, meaning His Death Rom 5:19 !

patrick jane
December 5th, 2014, 11:34 PM
beloved, do you think we could all be called, but the world around us happens, some of the called may be stuck in bad situations, not able to ris:Popcorn:e to their calling ?

beloved57
December 6th, 2014, 04:47 AM
pj


beloved, do you think we could all be called,

See post 177 and rehearse the points I made with me ! Thanks !

Nanja
December 6th, 2014, 06:41 AM
Rom 8:30

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

All who are the Called are the Justified. In our text above, those whom God has called He justified, and its not even up for debate, hence if they have been called according to God's Purpose Rom 8:28

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Now these are Justified, yes even before they believe, for they had to be called before they could believe, that is called by the Gospel 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Also Sanctification of the Spirit preceded the Call of the Gospel and the Belief of the Truth !

Those who are Called by the Gospel have been already Justified, made Righteous by the Obedience of Christ, meaning His Death Rom 5:19 !


Yes, Indeed!

The Called are Justified, made Righteous, by the Death of Christ alone on their behalf.
They were Sanctified, set apart to be holy in the Purpose of God,
before the foundation of the world by their Election in Christ Eph 1:4-5.
So, in time then, they shall believe the Truth: The evidence of being Called.

~~~~~

beloved57
December 6th, 2014, 07:48 AM
Yes, Indeed!

The Called are Justified, made Righteous, by the Death of Christ alone on their behalf.
They were Sanctified, set apart to be holy in the Purpose of God,
before the foundation of the world by their Election in Christ Eph 1:4-5.
So, in time then, they shall believe the Truth: The evidence of being Called.

~~~~~

Absolutely correct, you are becoming skilled in the word of righteousness Heb 5:13 !

Nanja
December 6th, 2014, 08:45 AM
Absolutely correct, you are becoming skilled in the word of righteousness Heb 5:13 !

TY...Glory to God!

~~~~~

beloved57
December 6th, 2014, 08:47 AM
TY...Glory to God!

~~~~~

Amen !

beloved57
January 21st, 2015, 09:46 AM
There are some who disdain the Gospel Truth of Predestination, but its to their Eternal peril ! The Called of God, Called by the Gospel, is limited to the predestinated, when it comes to Salvation, observe Rom 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

2 Thess 2:14

Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

They are called to obtain the Glory of Christ which is the same as being Glorified in Rom 8:30

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

So thats how valuable Predestination is in the Salvation of God's Elect, If not already Predestinated, there is no Gospel reason to be called nor Justified, and finally Glorified !

beloved57
February 23rd, 2015, 03:39 PM
2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

One of the Blessed Truths of the Gospel / Salvation economy, in that its commonly believed by the ignorant and unlearned, that one is first called by the Gospel, and then they need to make a decision to either accept the calling and get saved or remain in a lost state, its up to them; But that is far from the Truth, its a outright lie, the Truth is, first one is saved then called to believe the Gospel, even the Gospel of their Salvation Eph 1:13 !

The text above states that we were saved, then followed by Called. Paul here gives the proper order within the Purpose of God, God saved us then Called us with an Holy Calling, for God does not summons or call unholy and unsaved men with a Holy Callng, thats blasphemous. When God calls us by the Gospel it is inorder that we have Fellowship with His the Lord Jesus Christ 1 Cor 1:9

9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

And " for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? "

Paul again makes this order plain in 1 Cor 1:18,23-24

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Now here Paul contrasts to whom the Preaching of the Cross [The Gospel] is foolishness to, and who it is being the Power of God to, now to them that are perishing [in a lost state presently See 2 Cor 4:3] But to them or us who are saved/being saved, it is the Power of God;

and then later down in Vs 23-24 Paul contrasts to whom Preaching Christ is a stumbling and foolishness to, with those to whom its the Power and Wisdom of God.

So now in Vs 18 they are called the saved, but here in Vs 24 they are being called the Called.

So being saved is the foundation of being Called. To the saved, quickened, the Call of the Gospel is both internal and effectual, and it begats activity from the New quickened life implanted, James 1:18,21


18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

That word engrafted means rooted so that it may developed, its the opposite of the ones Jesus says this of Lk 8:13

They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

The Call of the Gospel is only going to be Good News to them that have been saved by a New Birth from above, to such the Holy Spirit has spiritually prepared the regenerated heart for a fruitful and understanding reception of the Gospel Truth Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

The Good Ground is the Saved Heart !

Bright Raven
February 23rd, 2015, 03:53 PM
Sort of like Squeaky with a follower.

OCTOBER23
February 23rd, 2015, 04:01 PM
TODAY IN CANADA MANY ARE COLD AND A FEW ARE FROZEN.

I AM ONE OF THE CALLED.

beloved57
February 24th, 2015, 04:24 AM
2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

In the scheme of God's Eternal Purpose, Believers, were Saved in that Purpose; Then were they called in Time by the Gospel. In order to be called by the Gospel as it pertaineth to ones Salvation, we must be already reckoned among the Saved !

This is even more confirmed by the fact that the Gospel is to the saved, the Gospel of their Salvation Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard[The Call of] the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

They were in possession[your] of Salvation at the Time of the Call they heard !

So believers were saved eternally by the Purpose of God and experimentally by the Spirit of God before they were Called by the Gospel !

beloved57
February 24th, 2015, 05:22 PM
In the scheme of our Salvation, the Call of God in Time is pursuant in the accomplishment of God's Predestination concerning us Rom 8:30

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified,

Hence if we are of the Election of Grace we shall be Called according to His Purpose and Grace Rom 8:28

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

OCTOBER23
February 24th, 2015, 05:26 PM
NANJAH said,

The Called are Justified, made Righteous, by the Death of Christ alone on their behalf.

They were Sanctified, set apart to be holy in the Purpose of God,

before the foundation of the world by their Election in Christ Eph 1:4-5.

So, in time then, they shall believe the Truth: The evidence of being Called.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I disagree.

God purposed to CALL a group of people.

Many are Called but few are chosen .

Not everyone that God Calls will continue in the Faith.

beloved57
February 25th, 2015, 08:58 AM
Now the Salvation the Elect experience in Time , by the Sanctifying Work of the Spirit and Belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13,14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Joined or followed by with the Call of the Gospel Vs 14

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Note: The Sanctifying Work of the Spirit preceded the Call of the Gospel !

This experience was in accordance to Grace Given them in Christ Jesus before the World Began 2 Tim 1:9,

So this experience is an aspect of communicated Spiritual Blessings according as they were Chosen in Him [Christ their Head] before the foundation Eph 1:3-4

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Thats why they all receive a Heavenly Call as a result being blessed with all Spiritual Blessings in Heavenly places in Christ,

Heb 3:1

Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Its that Call of Grace like Pauls was Gal 1:15

But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

beloved57
February 25th, 2015, 09:00 AM
NANJAH said,

The Called are Justified, made Righteous, by the Death of Christ alone on their behalf.

They were Sanctified, set apart to be holy in the Purpose of God,

before the foundation of the world by their Election in Christ Eph 1:4-5.

So, in time then, they shall believe the Truth: The evidence of being Called.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I disagree.

God purposed to CALL a group of people.

Many are Called but few are chosen .

Not everyone that God Calls will continue in the Faith.

Invalid comment !

beloved57
February 27th, 2015, 05:59 AM
Jude 1:1

Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

The blessing of this verse if we have spiritual eyes and ears, it informs us that the elect of God, those chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4, that while they were enemies and in a state of nature, children of wrath Eph 2:3, that nevertheless they are in Jesus Christ, and are even then being providentially guarded by the power of God, through many seen and unseen dangers that may have deprived them of physical life, this would include any bodily diseaes or bad health issues, in order that they may receive their Calling from God of the Gospel, to the obtaining of the Glory of the Lord Jesus Christ 2 Thess 2:14

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

John Gill comments on Jude 1:1 preserved and called:


and preserved in Jesus Christ; those who are sanctified, or set apart by God the Father in election, are in Christ, for they are chosen in him; they have a place in his heart, and they are put into his hands, and are in him, and united to him as members to an head, and were represented by him in the covenant of grace; and being in him, they are preserved by him, and that before they are called, as well as after; wherefore this character is put before that of being called, though the Syriac version puts that in the first place: there is a secret preservation of them in Christ before calling, from condemnation and the second death; they were not preserved from falling in Adam, with the rest of mankind, nor from the corruption of human nature, nor from actual sins and transgressions; yet, notwithstanding these, were so preserved that the law could not execute the sentence of condemnation on them, nor sin damn them, nor Satan, who led them captive, hale them to prison; and after calling, they are preserved not from indwelling sin, nor from the temptations of Satan, nor from doubts and fears and unbelief, nor from slips and falls into sin; but from the tyranny and dominion of sin, from being devoured by Satan, and from a total and final falling away; they are preserved in the love of God, and of Christ; in the covenant of grace; in a state of justification and adoption; and in the paths of truth, faith, and holiness; and are preserved safe to the heavenly kingdom and glory: their other character follows,

and called; not merely externally by the ministry of the word, but internally by the Spirit and grace of God; so that this is to be understood of a special and effectual call, whereby souls are called out of darkness into light, and from bondage to liberty; and from a dependence on themselves to the grace and righteousness of Christ; and from society with the men of the world to fellowship with him; and to eternal glory, so as to have faith and hope concerning it,


And by the fact they are in Jesus Christ before they are Called by the Gospel, Likewise they are not condemned by God before they are Called by the Gospel simply because there is no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus Rom 8:1

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

False Prophet
February 27th, 2015, 09:15 AM
Many are called, but few are chosen.

beloved57
February 27th, 2015, 10:42 AM
Many are called, but few are chosen.

Post 193, did you understand the points I made ?

Nanja
February 27th, 2015, 04:49 PM
Jude 1:1

Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

The blessing of this verse if we have spiritual eyes and ears, it informs us that the elect of God, those chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4, that while they were enemies and in a state of nature, children of wrath Eph 2:3, that nevertheless they are in Jesus Christ, and are even then being providentially guarded by the power of God, through many seen and unseen dangers that may have deprived them of physical life, this would include any bodily diseaes or bad health issues, in order that they may receive their Calling from God of the Gospel, to the obtaining of the Glory of the Lord Jesus Christ 2 Thess 2:14

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel,

to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.


"Providentially guarded by the power of God". So true! I can personally attest to that fact,
when looking back as far as I can remember, and seeing how God provided, and is to this day,
providing protection in so many situations; and how all the events and people brought into my life
were, and are, perfectly arranged according to His Will and Purpose.

We serve an Awesome God!




Excellent comments below: underlining and highlighting are mine:


John Gill comments on Jude 1:1 preserved and called:

and preserved in Jesus Christ; those who are sanctified, or set apart by God the Father in election, are in Christ, for they are chosen in him; they have a place in his heart, and they are put into his hands, and are in him, and united to him as members to an head, and were represented by him in the covenant of grace; and being in him, they are preserved by him, and that before they are called, as well as after; wherefore this character is put before that of being called, though the Syriac version puts that in the first place: there is a secret preservation of them in Christ before calling, from condemnation and the second death; they were not preserved from falling in Adam, with the rest of mankind, nor from the corruption of human nature, nor from actual sins and transgressions; yet, notwithstanding these, were so preserved that the law could not execute the sentence of condemnation on them, nor sin damn them, nor Satan, who led them captive, hale them to prison; and after calling, they are preserved not from indwelling sin, nor from the temptations of Satan, nor from doubts and fears and unbelief, nor from slips and falls into sin; but from the tyranny and dominion of sin, from being devoured by Satan, and from a total and final falling away; they are preserved in the love of God, and of Christ; in the covenant of grace; in a state of justification and adoption; and in the paths of truth, faith, and holiness; and are preserved safe to the heavenly kingdom and glory: their other character follows,

and called; not merely externally by the ministry of the word, but internally by the Spirit and grace of God; so that this is to be understood of a special and effectual call, whereby souls are called out of darkness into light, and from bondage to liberty; and from a dependence on themselves to the grace and righteousness of Christ; and from society with the men of the world to fellowship with him; and to eternal glory, so as to have faith and hope concerning it,




And by the fact they are in Jesus Christ before they are Called by the Gospel, Likewise they are not condemned by God before they are Called by the Gospel simply because there is no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus Rom 8:1

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


His Elect walk after the Spirit, because they have been given His Spirit Gal. 4:6; Eph. 1:13
("sealing" denotes they belong to Him: His Sons!)


Yes, and these are the same ones spoken of in:

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me,
hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

They cannot come under condemnation because they were already eternally sanctified /set apart
when they were chosen/elected in Christ by The Father and given to Christ to be His Bride John 17:6;
His Church that He gave His Life for Eph. 5:25.

~~~~~

beloved57
February 27th, 2015, 05:37 PM
"Providentially guarded by the power of God". So true! I can personally attest to that fact,
when looking back as far as I can remember, and seeing how God provided, and is to this day,
providing protection in so many situations; and how all the events and people brought into my life
were, and are, perfectly arranged according to His Will and Purpose.

We serve an Awesome God!




Excellent comments below: underlining and highlighting are mine:







His Elect walk after the Spirit, because they have been given His Spirit Gal. 4:6; Eph. 1:13
("sealing" denotes they belong to Him: His Sons!)


Yes, and these are the same ones spoken of in:

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me,
hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

They cannot come under condemnation because they were already eternally sanctified /set apart
when they were chosen/elected in Christ by The Father and given to Christ to be His Bride John 17:6;
His Church that He gave His Life for Eph. 5:25.

~~~~~

Amen Sister!

beloved57
June 12th, 2015, 12:02 PM
One of the the sure blessings as a result/effect of Christ's redemptive death for His Sheep, its that they shall partake of a Spiritual Calling of the Holy Ghost, an internal calling wherein they hear the voice of their once crucified and now risen Saviour Shepherd, lets not forget that Christ rose as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

And so thats why the Call goes out to the Sheep ! Here is proof that He issues the special call to His Sheep and they hear His call and follow Him Jn 10:3-4

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

A couple of things here about this call to His Sheep, Its an effectual irresistable call, for its stated in Vs 3 that "He leadeth them out"; and this has some reference to calling them out of, or leading them out of darkness 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

The word called here is the same exact word for call in Jn 10:3

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

Lets not forget that Peter refers to them He wrote to as Sheep 1 Pet 2:25

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

So its the Sheep again being referred to in 1 Pet 2:9 who were called out of darkness !

Now also in Jn 10:4 to show the efficasiousness of this Call it says that " He putteth forth His own Sheep" What does this mean ? Its the greek words ek balē:

I throw (cast, put) out; I banish; I bring forth, produce.

to compel one to depart

to command or cause one to depart in haste

with the implication of force overcoming opposing force; to cause a thing to move straight on to its intended goal:

The world, flesh and devil are opposing forces the Sheep must overcome to come out of darkness !

Its that Call where Jesus calls His People/Sheep effectively out of false doctrine and religion Rev 18:4

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Gods People and Sheep are the same Ps 100:3

Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

This is a call that cannot be resisted Mk 1:12

12 And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness.

Hence all for whom Christ died, His Sheep Jn 10:11,15 shall partake of this effectual call of the Holy Ghost !

Saved.One.by.Grace
June 12th, 2015, 12:21 PM
Romans 1:6

Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

Under the New Covenant, not all men and women are the called of Jesus Christ. This called should not be confused with the called in Matt 22:14

14For many are called, but few are chosen.

There is a dispensational difference here, for under the Old Covenant Israel as a nation was called, and this is in reference to the nation as the context will tell, just read the passage leading up to that verse and that will be seen..

But in the NT post cross, the called are those that are the called of Jesus Christ, like Saul who became paul was called in Acts 9:1-6

So when writing His epistles and addressing them as the called, He has his personal experience to verify the calling he has in mind..

The called of Jesus Christ is not for all men, but for those men and women whom Jesus Christ was made sin for, and those whom His righteousness has been reckoned unto their account..

It is a distinct group of people, separated from all other peoples in the world..

It is a call that though it is to a distinct people, its inclusive of both jew and gentile per Rom 9:23-24

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

It is the call to whom the eternal inheritance belongeth Heb 9:15

15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Here are more scriptures pointing out this distinguished group, the called:

1 Cor 1:23-24,26-28

23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness

24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Notice " but unto them which are called" in contrast to the stumbling jews and the worldly wise greeks"

But God has chosen ones [ the called] in both groups..

26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

The called are the same here as the chosen..

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

The called: Rom 8:29-30

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Not all are of the called of Jesus Christ, but only those given to Him for His seed, and they in due time are called into fellowship with Him.. 1 Cor 1:1,2,9

1Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

This calling proceeds from the Faithfulness of God unto the chosen race, that seed whom Jesus died for..

Isa 53:10

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.


Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers (http://biblehub.com/commentaries/ellicott/matthew/22.htm)

(14) Many are called.—(See Note on Matthew 20:16 (http://biblehub.com/matthew/20-16.htm).) The “calling” answers, both verbally and in substance, to the “bidding” or invitation of the parable. The “chosen” are those who both accept the invitation and comply with its condition; those who, in the one parable, work in the vineyard, and in the other, array themselves with the wedding garment of holiness. The “choice,” as far as the parable is concerned, appears as dependent upon the answer given to the calling. The further truth of an election “according to the foreknowledge of God the Father” (1Peter 1:2 (http://biblehub.com/1_peter/1-2.htm)) is not here within view, but it follows necessarily on the assumption of that foreknowledge. The “choice,” which in the parable comes as the close of all, must be thought of as having been present to the mind of the All-knowing from all eternity. No one can fix time limits for the thoughts of God, and say that at such a time a purpose came into His mind as it comes into the minds of men. We are compelled in such matters to use anthropomorphic language, but we should remember, as we do so, its necessary limitations.

Without His grace and mercy, we could not choose Him. Because He first chose us, before we chose Him.

1 John 4:19 we -- we love Him, because He -- He first loved us; [YLT]

beloved57
June 12th, 2015, 12:46 PM
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers (http://biblehub.com/commentaries/ellicott/matthew/22.htm)

(14) Many are called.—(See Note on Matthew 20:16 (http://biblehub.com/matthew/20-16.htm).) The “calling” answers, both verbally and in substance, to the “bidding” or invitation of the parable. The “chosen” are those who both accept the invitation and comply with its condition; those who, in the one parable, work in the vineyard, and in the other, array themselves with the wedding garment of holiness. The “choice,” as far as the parable is concerned, appears as dependent upon the answer given to the calling. The further truth of an election “according to the foreknowledge of God the Father” (1Peter 1:2 (http://biblehub.com/1_peter/1-2.htm)) is not here within view, but it follows necessarily on the assumption of that foreknowledge. The “choice,” which in the parable comes as the close of all, must be thought of as having been present to the mind of the All-knowing from all eternity. No one can fix time limits for the thoughts of God, and say that at such a time a purpose came into His mind as it comes into the minds of men. We are compelled in such matters to use anthropomorphic language, but we should remember, as we do so, its necessary limitations.

Without His grace and mercy, we could not choose Him. Because He first chose us, before we chose Him.

1 John 4:19 we -- we love Him, because He -- He first loved us; [YLT]

Did you understand the points i made in the post you quoted?

Saved.One.by.Grace
June 12th, 2015, 01:31 PM
Did you understand the points i made in the post you quoted?

I believe I did. God called the nation of Israel, but few individuals are chosen (or elected). Just as Christians are called, Jews and Gentiles, alike, but only those chosen (elected) by God are saved. We are saved by His grace, not by who we are or what we do.

Maybe my word choice is a little different than yours but I didn't have any problem with what you wrote here. Do I need to read it a few more times? That's not sarcasm, that's just the way my brain functions nowadays. I have trouble with long posts maintaining the conceptional points conveyed and how they fit together.

beloved57
June 12th, 2015, 02:51 PM
I believe I did. God called the nation of Israel, but few individuals are chosen (or elected). Just as Christians are called, Jews and Gentiles, alike, but only those chosen (elected) by God are saved. We are saved by His grace, not by who we are or what we do.

Maybe my word choice is a little different than yours but I didn't have any problem with what you wrote here. Do I need to read it a few more times? That's not sarcasm, that's just the way my brain functions nowadays. I have trouble with long posts maintaining the conceptional points conveyed and how they fit together.

Review my points back to me!

beloved57
October 7th, 2015, 11:35 PM
A very popular verse in religious circles is this one, even though not many believe or understand it Rom 8:28

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

These are Gods Elect, His Chosen , written of a few verses later Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

And they by the Gospel and the Spirit are called according to Gods Purpose of Election, in fact its the same Call referred to later in the same epistle here Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

These are Called according to Gods purpose of Election, not of works, but of His that Calleth,

And later still its the same Election of Grace Rom 11:5-7

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Which Grace and Purpose had been given them in Christ Jesus [their Surety/Mediator] before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

So the Called according to purpose here corresponds with the Calling and Purpose of Rom 8:28;9:11 and its the Purpose of God in Election. This Call does not go out to them outside of Gods Purpose of Election in Christ !

beloved57
December 16th, 2015, 07:39 AM
This Call is in accordance to Gods Grace and Purpose given the Elect of God in Christ Jesus before the World Began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

This Call is an Effectual Call, in that it actually Calls the Called ones out of Darkness into His Marvellous Light as Per 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Notice the transition the Call effects #1 Out of Darkness and #2 into His Marvellous Light, which Light is the Gospel 2 Cor 4:4-6

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ[by the Gospel].

In the Call according to Gods Purpose, which is also the same Call in Rom 8:28, the Called ones shall be Called into the Light of the Gospel, out of the realm of darkness into the Light, a conversion is here meant !

No, all men without exception are recipients of this Call, only those according to Gods Purpose Rom 8:28;2 Tim 1:9 !

Nanja
December 16th, 2015, 09:08 AM
This Call is in accordance to Gods Grace and Purpose given the Elect of God in Christ Jesus before the World Began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

This Call is an Effectual Call, in that it actually Calls the Called ones out of Darkness into His Marvellous Light as Per 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Notice the transition the Call effects #1 Out of Darkness and #2 into His Marvellous Light, which Light is the Gospel 2 Cor 4:4-6

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, [B]hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

In the Call according to Gods Purpose, which is also the same Call in Rom 8:28, the Called ones shall be Called into the Light of the Gospel, out of the realm of darkness into the Light, a conversion is here meant !

No, all men without exception are recipients of this Call, only those according to Gods Purpose Rom 8:28;2 Tim 1:9 !



Amen to this Edifying 2-part study! ☺

This Great Call according to God's Purpose, to His Election of Grace,
results in the utmost intimate relationship with Christ Jesus,
for those who were Chosen in Union with Him, their Surety / Mediator
before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9! And because they are God's Sons
and Heirs with Him Rom. 8:17, He sends the Spirit of His Son into their hearts Gal. 4:6-7!

~~~~~

beloved57
December 16th, 2015, 08:19 PM
Amen to this Edifying 2-part study! ☺

This Great Call according to God's Purpose, to His Election of Grace,
results in the utmost intimate relationship with Christ Jesus,
for those who were Chosen in Union with Him, their Surety / Mediator
before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9! And because they are God's Sons
and Heirs with Him Rom. 8:17, He sends the Spirit of His Son into their hearts Gal. 4:6-7!

~~~~~

Amen!

bsmitts
December 17th, 2015, 01:27 AM
The efficacious call !

[INDENT]The call to the predestined or chosen ones, is a efficacious call from God

A call for the predestined? Wont they eventually just come around on their own?

lifeisgood
December 17th, 2015, 09:54 AM
The efficacious call !


The call to the predestined or chosen ones, is a efficacious call from God that translates one out of darkness into the marvelous light.

If they are already predestined, as your gospel preach, they do not need to be called.

The fact that there is a need for a call from God, and that that call from God is an efficacious call, declares unequivocally that no one has been predestined; otherwise, God would not have to make a call.

What is PREDESTINED is God's plan.

beloved57
December 17th, 2015, 10:48 AM
A call for the predestined? Wont they eventually just come around on their own?

Did you read the post and understand the points I made ?

beloved57
December 17th, 2015, 10:49 AM
If they are already predestined, as your gospel preach, they do not need to be called.

The fact that there is a need for a call from God, and that that call from God is an efficacious call, declares unequivocally that no one has been predestined; otherwise, God would not have to make a call.

What is PREDESTINED is God's plan.

Did you read the post and understand the points I made ?

lifeisgood
December 17th, 2015, 05:17 PM
Did you read the post and understand the points I made ?

Yes, I did read your post.

And, no, people are NOT predestined.
What is PREDESTINED is God's plan.

Nanja
December 17th, 2015, 06:11 PM
Yes, I did read your post.

And, no, people are NOT predestined.
What is PREDESTINED is God's plan.


Wrong!

His People He came to Save Mat. 1:21, the Election of Grace Rom 11:5, were Predestinated
to the Adoption of Children, Eph. 1:4-5 to an Eternal Inheritance Eph. 1:11, Eternal Life !

~~~~~

lifeisgood
December 17th, 2015, 10:21 PM
Wrong!

His People He came to Save Mat. 1:21, the Election of Grace Rom 11:5, were Predestinated
to the Adoption of Children, Eph. 1:4-5 to an Eternal Inheritance Eph. 1:11, Eternal Life !

~~~~~

And, no people are NOT predestined.
What is PREDESTINED is God's plan.

beloved57
December 17th, 2015, 10:29 PM
lifeisgood


Yes, I did read your post.

Good, then please explain how I made my points with scripture !

Nanja
December 18th, 2015, 05:45 AM
And, no people are NOT predestined.
What is PREDESTINED is God's plan.


All of humanity were not predestinated to the Adoption of Children and an Eternal Inheritiance, Eternal Life
as those in Eph. 1:3-11, but only the Election of Grace Rom. 11:5, Chosen in Christ before time began 2 Tim. 1:9.

~~~~~

beloved57
December 18th, 2015, 08:09 AM
All of humanity were not predestinated to the Adoption of Children and an Eternal Inheritiance, Eternal Life
as those in Eph. 1:3-11, but only the Election of Grace Rom. 11:5, Chosen in Christ before time began 2 Tim. 1:9.

~~~~~

You can see that person doesnt believe the scriptures !

Grosnick Marowbe
December 18th, 2015, 08:16 AM
Yes, I did read your post.

And, no, people are NOT predestined.
What is PREDESTINED is God's plan.

Right!

Grosnick Marowbe
December 18th, 2015, 08:17 AM
You can see that person doesnt believe the scriptures !

We can see you don't know what you're talking about.

Grosnick Marowbe
December 18th, 2015, 08:18 AM
All of humanity were not predestinated to the Adoption of Children and an Eternal Inheritiance, Eternal Life
as those in Eph. 1:3-11, but only the Election of Grace Rom. 11:5, Chosen in Christ before time began 2 Tim. 1:9.

~~~~~

How do you know you're chosen?

Truster
December 18th, 2015, 08:25 AM
Romans 1:6

Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

Under the New Covenant, not all men and women are the called of Jesus Christ. This called should not be confused with the called in Matt 22:14

14For many are called, but few are chosen.

There is a dispensational difference here, for under the Old Covenant Israel as a nation was called, and this is in reference to the nation as the context will tell, just read the passage leading up to that verse and that will be seen..

But in the NT post cross, the called are those that are the called of Jesus Christ, like Saul who became paul was called in Acts 9:1-6

So when writing His epistles and addressing them as the called, He has his personal experience to verify the calling he has in mind..

The called of Jesus Christ is not for all men, but for those men and women whom Jesus Christ was made sin for, and those whom His righteousness has been reckoned unto their account..

It is a distinct group of people, separated from all other peoples in the world..

It is a call that though it is to a distinct people, its inclusive of both jew and gentile per Rom 9:23-24

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

It is the call to whom the eternal inheritance belongeth Heb 9:15

15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Here are more scriptures pointing out this distinguished group, the called:

1 Cor 1:23-24,26-28

23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness

24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Notice " but unto them which are called" in contrast to the stumbling jews and the worldly wise greeks"

But God has chosen ones [ the called] in both groups..

26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

The called are the same here as the chosen..

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

The called: Rom 8:29-30

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Not all are of the called of Jesus Christ, but only those given to Him for His seed, and they in due time are called into fellowship with Him.. 1 Cor 1:1,2,9

1Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

This calling proceeds from the Faithfulness of God unto the chosen race, that seed whom Jesus died for..

Isa 53:10

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.


I find it strange that you bang on about being called, but you refuse to give an account of conversion. I suppose you were called to Calvinism and not salvation. That your hope is in a doctrine and not the experience of the doctrine.

beloved57
December 18th, 2015, 08:38 AM
I find it strange that you bang on about being called, but you refuse to give an account of conversion. I suppose you were called to Calvinism and not salvation. That your hope is in a doctrine and not the experience of the doctrine.


Did you read and understand the points made in the post you quoted ?

Truster
December 18th, 2015, 08:44 AM
Did you read and understand the points made in the post you quoted ?

What is about give a testimony of your conversion that gives you so much difficulty and causes you to squirm like a serpent.

beloved57
December 18th, 2015, 09:14 AM
What is about give a testimony of your conversion that gives you so much difficulty and causes you to squirm like a serpent.

Evasion and Rabbit trail ! If you dont care to debate the points I made in this thread, then just stay away !

Truster
December 18th, 2015, 10:05 AM
Evasion and Rabbit trail ! If you dont care to debate the points I made in this thread, then just stay away !

As I said this is my annual request for you to give a testimony of salvation. You don't have one.

see you next year.

lifeisgood
December 18th, 2015, 10:46 AM
lifeisgood


Good, then please explain how I made my points with scripture !

When you answer Tambora's question:
Do you tell your children when you put them to bed that God loves them?

Or

do you tell them that they might be ones that were born only so God could send them to hell and there isn't a darn thing they can do about it?


You will know that what is predestined is NOT people.
What is PREDESTINED is God's plan.

lifeisgood
December 18th, 2015, 10:48 AM
All of humanity were not predestinated to the Adoption of Children and an Eternal Inheritiance, Eternal Life
as those in Eph. 1:3-11, but only the Election of Grace Rom. 11:5, Chosen in Christ before time began 2 Tim. 1:9.

~~~~~

People have NEVER been predestined.
What is PREDESTINED is God's plan.

lifeisgood
December 18th, 2015, 10:50 AM
How do you know you're chosen?

You will never receive an answer to this.
I've asked others.
Still waiting for their answer on how they know they are chosen and someone else is not.

Nanja
December 18th, 2015, 02:28 PM
You can see that person doesnt believe the scriptures !


Right, it's the spiritual blindness spoken of in 2 Cor. 4:3-4 KJV; Eph. 4:18.

~~~~~

bsmitts
December 19th, 2015, 11:05 PM
I have a simple question for Beloved. Well, maybe it's simple. I'm not being sarcastic asking this question just so you know, but how do you, Beloved, know that you are, as you say, chosen? Just curious.

beloved57
December 19th, 2015, 11:25 PM
I have a simple question for Beloved. Well, maybe it's simple. I'm not being sarcastic asking this question just so you know, but how do you, Beloved, know that you are, as you say, chosen? Just curious.

Im not here to discuss me, do you want to discuss any of the post topics here in this thread ? Yes or No ?

beloved57
June 22nd, 2016, 11:56 PM
The Call of Salvation !

There's a Call of God associated with or accompanies Salvation, its particular to the Chosen of God. Paul writes about it in at least a couple places in his epistles, the first we will notice is in 1 Cor 1:9,18-24, 26,28

9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 but we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 but unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble,are called: 27 but God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 and base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

This call in vs 24 comes to the specifically called with power, as in this Call Christ is not only the wisdom of God, but also the Power of God, for Christ's Power in the Person of the Holy Spirit is active in this call, to them that are called and chosen Vs 27-28. The word chosen in Vs 27-28 is the same word found in Eph 1:4

4 according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This choosing is an deliberate act of God with Salvation as His end for the called.

Nanja
June 24th, 2016, 06:59 AM
The Call of Salvation !

There's a Call of God associated with or accompanies Salvation, its particular to the Chosen of God. Paul writes about it in at least a couple places in his epistles, the first we will notice is in 1 Cor 1:9,18-24, 26,28

9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 but we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 but unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble,are called: 27 but God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 and base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

This call in vs 24 comes to the specifically called with power, as in this Call Christ is not only the wisdom of God, but also the Power of God, for Christ's Power in the Person of the Holy Spirit is active in this call, to them that are called and chosen Vs 27-28. The word chosen in Vs 27-28 is the same word found in Eph 1:4

4 according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This choosing is an deliberate act of God with Salvation as His end for the called.


This is so True, because those that were Chosen of God in Christ Jesus by the Father according to His Eternal Purpose Eph. 1:4-11; 3:11, and Called to Salvation are the same ones that were Called to be Saints, Sanctified in Christ Jesus 1 Cor. 1:2 from Everlasting Jer. 1:5 by their Surety's Offering of Himself on their behalf Heb. 10:9-10 !

~~~~~

beloved57
June 24th, 2016, 07:05 AM
This is so True, because those that were Chosen of God in Christ Jesus by the Father according to His Eternal Purpose Eph. 1:4-11; 3:11, and Called to Salvation are the same ones that were Called to be Saints, Sanctified in Christ Jesus 1 Cor. 1:2 from Everlasting Jer. 1:5 by their Surety's Offering of Himself on their behalf Heb. 10:9-10 !

~~~~~
Yes indeed!

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beloved57
June 24th, 2016, 02:52 PM
The Call of Salvation !2

The second place Paul writes in about a call associated with Salvation is 2 Thess 2:13-14

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This calling which is the call of the Gospel through the Apostles vs 14 is preceded by the Sanctifying Work of the Spirit vs 13, so this clearly indicates a Gospel call to them that have been Spiritually set apart by God the Holy Spirit, and this call is unto Salvation and belief of the Truth. This call is not to the Spiritually unsanctified portion of mankind.

God's Truth
June 24th, 2016, 02:54 PM
I have a simple question for Beloved. Well, maybe it's simple. I'm not being sarcastic asking this question just so you know, but how do you, Beloved, know that you are, as you say, chosen? Just curious.
He knows because he believes John Calvin. lol

Nanja
June 25th, 2016, 05:47 AM
The Call of Salvation !2

The second place Paul writes in about a call associated with Salvation is 2 Thess 2:13-14

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This calling which is the call of the Gospel through the Apostles vs 14 is preceded by the Sanctifying Work of the Spirit vs 13, so this clearly indicates a Gospel call to them that have been Spiritually set apart by God the Holy Spirit, and this call is unto Salvation and belief of the Truth. This call is not to the Spiritually unsanctified portion of mankind.


True, that's the non-elect portion, which were not chosen to Salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the Truth, so the Truth is deliberately hid from them 2 Cor. 4:3 because they are not chosen beneficiaries of the Covenant of Grace as those spoken of in Ps. 89:3, 28.

~~~~~

beloved57
June 25th, 2016, 07:25 AM
True, that's the non-elect portion, which were not chosen to Salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the Truth, so the Truth is deliberately hid from them 2 Cor. 4:3 because they are not chosen beneficiaries of the Covenant of Grace as those spoken of in Ps. 89:3, 28.

~~~~~
Amen!

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beloved57
June 25th, 2016, 03:36 PM
The Called and Saved are the same !


The Gospel call doesnt go out to them that are lost and dead in sin. This is because they that are lost are blinded by the god of this world, satan, so that they believe not, hence the result is the Gospel is being hid from them by the Judgment of God 2 Cor 4:3-4

3But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Now scripture teaches that there is a Call to the saved, so that " them that are called " and " them that are saved" are the same ones. This is seen in the context of 1 Cor 1:18-24

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 but we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 but unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

In Vs 18 the Gospel is the Power of God unto us which are saved, or being saved as the greek would have it, because saved here is a present tense participle passive/middle, because conversion is taking place.

The preaching of the cross /gospel it is the Power of God [Rom 1:16], and later in Vs 23-24, the preaching of the cross is "unto them which are called" Christ the Power of God and Wisdom of God. The saved in Vs 18 and the Called in Vs 24 are the exact same ones, and its to them of which the preaching of Gospel is the Converting Power of God !

beloved57
December 9th, 2016, 11:32 AM
Who receives the Call of the Gospel?

Folks, all without exception are called by the Gospel. No, only some people are. Paul indicates that in 1Cor 1 when he writes of the called 1Cor 1:24


But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

In the original its them the called, with the definite article before Called, which denotes a definite people being called.

The Gospel call is to the quickened elect or chosen of God; or them who have been spiritually set apart by the Holy Spirit, as described in 2 Thessalonians 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Who was called by the Apostles Gospel here? Why those he just said were , the chosen beloved of the Lord,and them to be sanctified by the Spirit. The Gospel call is not to the lost unregenerated soul, non elect.

Nanja
December 10th, 2016, 03:34 PM
Who receives the Call of the Gospel?

Folks, all without exception are called by the Gospel. No, only some people are. Paul indicates that in 1Cor 1 when he writes of the called 1Cor 1:24


But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

In the original its them the called, with the definite article before Called, which denotes a definite people being called.

The Gospel call is to the quickened elect or chosen of God; or them who have been spiritually set apart by the Holy Spirit, as described in 2 Thessalonians 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Who was called by the Apostles Gospel here? Why those he just said were , the chosen beloved of the Lord,and them to be sanctified by the Spirit. The Gospel call is not to the lost unregenerated soul, non elect.


The non elect are locked out of the Gospel call because the Truth shall remain hidden from them who are permanently lost and blinded by satan 2 Cor. 4:3-4.

But Faith / Believing the True Gospel of God's Electing Grace, is a fruit of the Spirit given in the New Birth, Gal. 5:22, and bears evidence of being Chosen of God and in a Saved state.

beloved57
December 11th, 2016, 10:56 AM
Those who have been regenerated by the Spirit of God, that renewing Paul speaks of here Titus 3:5

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

There renewed mind are spiritually enlightened so that they become receptive to the truth of God's word.

Much like Lydia Acts 16:14

And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

beloved57
February 24th, 2017, 12:29 PM
Saved first, then called!

I know this statement goes against the thinking of the carnal religionists, but nevertheless it is truth. Those who are called by Grace in time have been saved by the Purpose of God before the world began 2Tim1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Salvation by Grace in the Purpose of God is before calling in time.

The called according to Gods Purpose Rom 8:28
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Nanja
February 25th, 2017, 08:06 AM
Saved first, then called!

I know this statement goes against the thinking of the carnal religionists, but nevertheless it is truth. Those who are called by Grace in time have been saved by the Purpose of God before the world began 2Tim1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Salvation by Grace in the Purpose of God is before calling in time.

The called according to Gods Purpose Rom 8:28
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.


Yes, It is Truth Indeed!

At the point in Eternity when they were chosen and predestinated Eph. 1:4-5 in their Covenant Head and Surety Christ Jesus Heb. 7:22 by the Father to be His Adopted Children, the Elect were already Saved or Justified by God in Him who was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world Rev. 13:8, by non-imputation of sin Is. 53:6; Rom. 4:7-8 .

Therefore, they were Saved first, according to God's Eternal Purpose, before the World began 2 Tim. 1:9.

So then, even before they sin in Time, the Election of Grace were already legally Saved from the penalty of sin, abjured to be Righteous in God's sight in their Surety by His Blood Work on their behalf.

Rom. 5:9-10

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

God's Truth
February 26th, 2017, 02:00 PM
ALL are called and ALL are drawn, except many resist!

Acts 7:51 "You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

beloved57
March 1st, 2017, 12:50 PM
ALL are called and ALL are drawn, except many resist!

Acts 7:51 "You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

False teaching.

God's Truth
March 1st, 2017, 01:00 PM
False teaching.

Prove it, accuser.

beloved57
March 1st, 2017, 01:15 PM
Prove it, accuser.
You proved it already by saying something that scripture doesn't say.

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God's Truth
March 1st, 2017, 02:10 PM
Prove it.

What did I say scripture says and what does scripture say.

beloved57
March 1st, 2017, 02:37 PM
Prove it.

What did I say scripture says and what does scripture say.

Read it for yourself. You saw what I quoted you saying when I made that statement. If you cant keep up with what you post, that's your own fault !

beloved57
March 7th, 2017, 11:59 AM
The Marriage of the Kings Son

Matt 22:1-14

And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,

2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Now notice something here. The King asked one of the attendees this question Vs 11-12

And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

And please notice how that guest responded, he became speechless!

Now I wonder why the guest didn't simply reply, I'm here because I was called and invited ?