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beloved57
July 26th, 2009, 11:28 PM
Who Justifieth the Ungodly

Rom 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 5:6

For when we [The elect] were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

These verses tells us something about the elect ! First that by nature we are ungodly, children of wrath as others..Eph 2:3

3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Amen being children of wrath by nature as others is just another way of saying, that we were ungodly..

But one of the Great Gospel doctrines is described in Rom 4:5 is that God justifieth the ungodly..

Now , get this, The elect are Justified before God. by the obedience and righteousness of Jesus christ [Rom 5: 18-19] while we are dead in

tresspasses and sins, while we are by nature children of wrath even as others, and while by lifestyle, ungodly. While we the elect are in this very sinful condition, that we are Justified by Jesus christ blood and clothed in His imputed righteousness, even though we dont know it at the Time, but God knows it , because He is the one who did it..

Rom 8:33-34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

You see, most false teachers today think that Rom 8 :33 applies to post conversion, but it also applies to pre conversion, for God Justifieth the ungodly, before they are converted..

Thats why its of grace..Titus 3:7

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Its by grace because of the sinful condtion we are in by nature when we are Justified before God..
__________________

beloved57
August 16th, 2009, 08:45 AM
Justification by Faith

Justification by Faith is in two senses, First and foremost Its Justification by the Faith / Faithfulness of Jesus Christ. For its by this Faith alone how The elect obtain Justification before God, by the Blood and obedience of Jesus Christ, for all whom He died in their place and stead..

Rom 5:9,18-19

9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Note, being Now Justified by His blood, not our Faith + His blood, thats a false Gospel, but by His blood..to whom is this True of ? Not only the roman believers, but to all the election of grace of all time..Thats who Justified by His blood..

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men[of all time] to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men [of all time] unto justification of life.

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Again no mention of our Faith as a securing means of Justification unto Life or being made righteous, but solely the obedience and righteousness of One Jesus Christ..

This constitutes the Faith / faithfulness of Jesus Christ..Therefore its written The Faith of Jesus Christ:

Gal 2:16,20

16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

In Faithfulness Jesus christ Loved the elect and gave himself for them..


Then in a secondary sense and premised on the First and foremost, the elect sinner is Justified consciously, by the regenerating work of the Holy Ghost, because of their previous justification by the work of Christ, they now have that revealed to them by God the Holy Ghost through the Gospel..but be careful not to confuse the receiving experientially the status of Justification before God with the experiential aspect of conscience Justification by the work of the Holy Ghost upon and in the already Justified before God sinner.. 1 Cor 6:11

[B]11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Now, though the work of the Holy Ghost is extremely Important and needed for the enjoyment of the work of Christ in the elects behalf, His blessed work should never be on the same level or above the Justifying work of the Son of God upon the cross..to do so leads to heresy and anti Christ teaching.

For it was not the Work of the Holy Ghost to die in the place of elect sinners for 1 Cor 15:3

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

This scripture teaches Christ died for our [the elect] sins, but not a word about the Holy Ghost dying for the sins of the elect.

Isa 53:6

6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him [Jesus Christ] the iniquity of us all.

Here, the iniquities of the elect were laid upon him [Jesus Christ] and not the Holy Ghost..

Rom 5: 9 declares Having been Justified [declared righteous] by the blood of Jesus Christ, but not a word about being Justified by the work of the Holy Ghost blood..

Finally Jesus states that the Holy Ghost will not speak of Himself [ draw attention to Himself] but should Glorify Him..Jn 16:13-14

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine [My accomplishment], and shall shew it unto you.

He shall receive of the finished accomplished Justification of Gods elect through Jesus Christ and on their behalf, and shew [ reveal] it to them..


To confuse or mix the Two types of Justification, Legal and experiential[conscious] is fatal..and will not go unpunished..and only those not taught by our Covenant God is at peril..

Robert Pate
August 16th, 2009, 10:21 AM
Who Justifieth the Ungodly
rom 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 5:6

For when we [The elect] were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

These verses tells us something about the elect ! First that by nature we are ungodly, children of wrath as others..eph 2:

3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Amen being children of wrath by nature as others is just another way of saying, that we were ungodly..

But one of the Great Gospel doctrines is described in rom 4 5 is that God justifieth the ungodly..

Now , get this, The elect are Justified before God. by the obedience and righteousness of Jesus christ [rom 5 18, 19] while we are dead in

tresspasses and sins, while we are by nature children of wrath even as others, and while by lifestyle, ungodly. While we the elect are in this very sinful condition, that we are Justified by Jesus christ blood and clothed in His imputed righteousness, even though we dont know it at the Time, but God knows it , because He is the one who did it..

rom 8:

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

You see, most false teachers today think that rom 8 33 applies to post conversion, but it also applies to pre conversion, for God Justifieth the ungodly, before they are converted..

Thats why its of grace..Titus 3:

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Its by grace because of the sinful condtion we are in by nature when we are Justified before God..
__________________


Romans 4:3 the scripture just ahead of Romans 4:5 about how God justifies the ungodly, says "That Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness." This is how people are saved they believe. There is nothing here about anyone being elected except what you interject.

Romans 4:5, says, "But to him that worketh not, BUT BELIEVES ON HIM that justifies the ungodly, HIS FAITH IS COUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS." We believe on Christ to be saved, no one is predestinated or elected. There is no need for that.

beloved57
August 16th, 2009, 11:23 PM
Romans 4:3 the scripture just ahead of Romans 4:5 about how God justifies the ungodly, says "That Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness." This is how people are saved they believe. There is nothing here about anyone being elected except what you interject.

Romans 4:5, says, "But to him that worketh not, BUT BELIEVES ON HIM that justifies the ungodly, HIS FAITH IS COUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS." We believe on Christ to be saved, no one is predestinated or elected. There is no need for that.

Here you come with your Jesus christ hating self..what up fool ?

Stuu
August 19th, 2009, 03:55 AM
I am ungodly and I have no respect for your need for my justification.

Stuart

beloved57
August 19th, 2009, 11:14 PM
I am ungodly and I have no respect for your need for my justification.

Stuart

More than likely your of the seed of the devil on your way to the lake of fire..

Stuu
August 20th, 2009, 01:29 AM
More than likely your of the seed of the devil on your way to the lake of fire..
I think hell is reserved for those who cannot spell.

Stuart

Katie
August 21st, 2009, 03:53 PM
Who Justifieth the Ungodly
rom 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 5:6

For when we [The elect] were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

These verses tells us something about the elect ! First that by nature we are ungodly, children of wrath as others..eph 2:

3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Amen being children of wrath by nature as others is just another way of saying, that we were ungodly..

But one of the Great Gospel doctrines is described in rom 4 5 is that God justifieth the ungodly..

Now , get this, The elect are Justified before God. by the obedience and righteousness of Jesus christ [rom 5 18, 19] while we are dead in

tresspasses and sins, while we are by nature children of wrath even as others, and while by lifestyle, ungodly. While we the elect are in this very sinful condition, that we are Justified by Jesus christ blood and clothed in His imputed righteousness, even though we dont know it at the Time, but God knows it , because He is the one who did it..

rom 8:

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

You see, most false teachers today think that rom 8 33 applies to post conversion, but it also applies to pre conversion, for God Justifieth the ungodly, before they are converted..

Thats why its of grace..Titus 3:

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Its by grace because of the sinful condtion we are in by nature when we are Justified before God..
__________________

Justification is spoken of differently in the Tanakh than what you are trying to imply here.

Job 13:18

Even Jesus said that by your words shalt thou be justified and by them shalt thou be condemned.

He also said that wisdom is justified of all her children. You don't gain wisdom through perfection, ya know.

There are even places in your own NT, as well as the Tanakh, that says God is justified by the people...

I think you are quite confused. If you are dead in your sins, then how do you even know it? Ecclesiastes is clear that there is no knowledge, wisdom, device, nor work in death. So those who are in their sins, if they are dead, then they do not know they are sinning and you are condemning the wrong people rather than being merciful.

Perhaps that's why Jesus said, "But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless." He also said, "But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

Sacrifice obviously had nothing to do with what he was here for by his own admission.

Blood does not justify ... do you know anything of the lesson that David learned?

Obviously not .. then, can you at least admit that your doctrine in the NT is not founded at all in the Tanakh .. for you will not find what you are promoting within its context.

beloved57
December 13th, 2009, 02:11 AM
Rom 5:1

Being Justified by Faith !

What does this mean ? For many deceivers are out in the world and have so misapplied this verse to make it say something that it really does not say or mean, and that is that one is saved or Justified before God because of their Faith, meaning their act of believing, that their act of believing is the causative reason of their Justification before God ! Let me say without hesitation that this teaching is Antichrist in that its against the True basis of Justification, and that namely is the Lord Jesus Christ..against His accomplishment on the cross..Its the blood of Jesus christ and the grace of God that Justifies sinners, and i will prove this from scriptures. Also keep in mind, that Faith is a noun not a verb as in something we do, but its a substance.

Rom 5:1

1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Let me start off by saying, what Paul does not mean here, and that is, Paul is not teaching that one is Justified by or because [B]of their act of Faith, since #1, Faith is a noun in this verse..and if we use the verb believing, then we are saying that God Justified because of something I did, which was believe..Thats works..

And even more so, Paul cannot contradict his own teaching in other portions of Gods word as to the True source of Justification before God! First of all Paul teaches that the elect are Justified by the blood of Jesus Christ Rom 5:9a

9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Paul clearly teaches that Justification is by the blood of Jesus Christ..

UnprofitblServant
December 13th, 2009, 03:05 AM
Beloved57:You see, most false teachers today think that rom 8 33 applies to post conversion, but it also applies to pre conversion, for God Justifieth the ungodly, before they are converted..

I am about to commend you for a good post but then you contradicted yourself again with this statement.

Does God justify even before conversion? Even before they repent and believe in Jesus? You just said they were children of wrath,Eph.2:3 before conversion.

What is clear is that God effects justification(imputes the righteousness of Christ,etc,etc) after the regenerated soul exercises repentance and faith in Jesus.

God is angry with the wicked,Psa.7:11. He is at war with the ungodly. So real peace with God is realized in the life of the believer only after justification,Rom.5:1.

beloved57
December 14th, 2009, 02:37 PM
So Paul declares that the elect having been Justified by Christ blood, shall be delivered from the wrath to come..

2ndly, Paul teaches that by the righteous act of one [ Christ] Justification comes upon all men, that is, all men in Him at the time of His righteous act..observe Rom 5:18b

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

This reads in exact contrast with the results of the one who made offence [ Adam] resulting in Gods condemnation and Judgment..for each of the heads brought about a Divine Judicial verdict on all those whom they represented..By the righteousness or righteous act of Jesus Christ, meaning His death, the free gift of Justification of life came upon [ not was offered or made available] but came upon all men [ in Christ at the time , his seed, as Adam had a seed in him] unto Justification of life..

The Justification unto life by the right act of one, called down the free Gift of Justification of life..

Thats why Paul wrote earlier in Rom 3:24

24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

The redemption that is in Christ Jesus, again pointing to His redeeming blood and or death..

So we know Paul did not mean in Rom 5:1 that the elect are Justified by their act of believing or Faith, because it again contradicts Paul's overall teaching of this subject, and would make void the accomplishment of the redeeming death and blood of Jesus christ..and thats what satan and his messengers desire to do, to take the crown from Jesus head, and place it upon the head of man..

beloved57
December 14th, 2009, 07:28 PM
So, so far in exposing the False teaching that the elect are saved or Justified because of their act of Faith or believing..we see that contradicts other clear teaching of paul that #1, the elect are Justified by the blood of Jesus christ Rom 5:9

9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

That is when He bore their sins as prophesied Isa 53:11

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. [shed His blood]

2ndly we find that paul teaches that by the righteous act of one [ Jesus christ] Justification came upon all men..not offered, not made available, but Sovereignly came upon them..Rom 5:18


18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


Now show me in this verse where it says that Justification of life came upon all men because they had faith ?

Thirdly, Paul teaches in vs 19 of Romans 5:19 that by the obedience of one, many shall be made righteous ..

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Now where does it say that by their faith shall many be made righteous ? Paul says by the obedience of one many shall be made righteous..Now who is that one ?

UnprofitblServant
December 14th, 2009, 10:31 PM
So, so far in exposing the False teaching that the elect are saved or Justified because of their act of Faith or believing..we see that contradicts other clear teaching of paul that #1, the elect are Justified by the blood of Jesus christ rom 5:

9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

That is when He bore their sins as prophesied Isa 53:

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. [shed His blood]

2ndly we find that paul teaches that by the righteous act of one [ Jesus christ] Justification came upon all men..not offered, not made available, but Sovereignly came upon them..rom 5:


18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Now show me in this verse where it says that Justification of life came upon all men because they had faith ?

Thirdly, Paul teaches in vs 19 of romans 5 that by the obedience of one, many shall be made righteous ..

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Now where does it say that by their faith shall many be made righteous ? Paul says by the obedience of one many shall be made righteous..Now who is that one ?

I agree with you 100% that it is not the believer's act of exercising faith that justifies but the righteousness(Rom.3:22KJV), blood(Rom.5:9), grace(Titus3:7) and faith of Christ(Gal.2:16KJV,Gal..3:22,Php.3:9KJV) imputed to the believer.

But I disagree with your position that the imputation is applied pre-conversion. The Scripture is clear that imputation is after the regenerated soul exercises faith in Jesus, Rom.4:24,5:1, Gal.2:16.

beloved57
December 15th, 2009, 06:30 AM
unprof:


But I disagree with your position that the imputation is applied pre-conversion.

The imputation was before the word began, for it occured when their sins were imputed to Christ..

The sins of the elect were not imputed on christ at the cross, but thats when He was actually punished for them in the time state..but they were imoputed to Him when He was made a surety by the everlasting covenant.

heb 7:

22By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Hence Jesus was slain in Gods estimation before the world began rev 13:


8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Now that its established that the sins of the elect were imputed to christ before the world began, then that was their Justification, their righteousness..for Justification is nothing less than being declared righteous..

Faith is alloted to all them who have been made righteous by imputation..

to say that righteousness is applied after the excercise of Faith, is a false doctrine, and more than suggest that man is made righteous because of his actions, his exercise of faith..

beloved57
December 15th, 2009, 06:38 AM
Paul then goes on to write that the elect are Justified by Grace Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

And this is freely, without cause of us, Just being of the election of grace. Rom 3:24

24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

The word freely here is the greek word:

dōrean: which means:


freely, undeservedly and is translated without a cause as here:

Jn 15:25

[B]25But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.


Redemption is through His blood, of which His Grace operates towards the elect..

Eph 1:7

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

In light of these scriptures, we continue to expose the false teaching of the antichrist followers who would take the crown from Jesus head and place it upon their own..

UnprofitblServant
December 16th, 2009, 01:14 PM
unprof:



The imputation was before the word began, for it occured when their sins were imputed to Christ..

The sins of the elect were not imputed on christ at the cross, but thats when He was actually punished for them in the time state..but they were imoputed to Him when He was made a surety by the everlasting covenant.

heb 7:

22By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Hence Jesus was slain in Gods estimation before the world began rev 13:


8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Now that its established that the sins of the elect were imputed to christ before the world began, then that was their Justification, their righteousness..for Justification is nothing less than being declared righteous..

Faith is alloted to all them who have been made righteous by imputation..

Your scriptural proof do not strongly support your position.

You just fail to understand or distinguish God's work of decree and providence.
It is true that with God's decree and foreknowledge, all to Him is finished.
But to deny God's providential work, the actual execution of His plan, is a false teaching.

To say that justification was finished before the foundation of the world without the necessary requirement of faith and repentance means also that Jesus' actual work on the cross is unnecessary because He was slain from the foundation of the world.

With that position you have to delete many passages of Scripture to make your broken cistern hold water.


Beloved57:to say that righteousness is applied after the excercise of Faith, is a false doctrine, and more than suggest that man is made righteous because of his actions, his exercise of faith..

It is not man made righteousness because the exercise of faith is from God through the Holy Spirit's regenerating work.
Your position denies the Holy Spirit's role in the Triune God's wonderful work of salvation.

beloved57
January 26th, 2010, 10:34 PM
The False teachers of today have turned what is the evidence of Justification into a condition to get salvation or Justification..

When the fact of the matter is, the elect are Justified before they believe, which is understood if we consider Rom 4:5

5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Notice, but believeth on Him that Justifieth the Ungodly !

The scripture does not term any who are believers Ungodly, we have our names from post conversion, such as saints, living stones, babes in Christ, beloved, holy brethren and ect, but seeing here Paul writes that God Justifieth the Ungodly, then believers are Justified before believing..

You see their [ the elect] believing did not Justify them, but Christ Justified many by baring their sins Isa 53:11

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

He [ Jesus Christ] in taking away the sin of the elect made us righteous, and this was our Justification..

Jn 1:29

29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world

1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.


Rom 5:8

8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Christ death Justified us [ the elect] while we were sinners, ungodly..

This was before we believed, for I was Justified by Christ death in 33 ad, before I was manifested [ born] in 1957..

Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

reconciliation and Justification are of the same sort, acceptance with God in Favor, and yet this occurred while we were sinners, before we believed, how ? by the death of His Son..

UnprofitblServant
January 26th, 2010, 11:56 PM
The False teachers of today have turned what is the evidence of Justification into a condition to get salvation or Justification..

When the fact of the matter is, the elect are Justified before they believe, which is understood if we consider rom 4:

5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Notice, but believeth on Him that Justifieth the Ungodly !

The scripture does not term any who are believers Ungodly, we have our names from post conversion, such as saints, living stones, babes in Christ, beloved, holy brethren and ect, but seeing here Paul writes that God Justifieth the Ungodly, then believers are Justified before believing..

You see their [ the elect] believing did not Justify them, but Christ Justified many by baring their sins isa 53:

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

He [ Jesus Christ] in taking away the sin of the elect made us righteous, and this was our Justification..

Jn 1:

29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world

1 jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.


rom 5:

8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Christ death Justified us [ the elect] while we were sinners, ungodly..

This was before we believed, for I was Justified by Christ death in 33 ad, before I was manifested [ born] in 1957..

rom 5:

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

reconciliation and Justification are of the same sort, acceptance with God in Favor, and yet this occurred while we were sinners, before we believed, how ? by the death of His Son..

Why don't you continue reading:


Rom 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

The redemption work was finished by Christ but justification is made effective to an elect once he believes.

And you have to reconcile it with the rest of Scriptures:


Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

And many more....


These verses clearly states that faith precedes justification.
It is how God planned to carry out His salvation work,Eph.1:11,13.

You have to examine the context. If it is referring to the justifying work of Christ, yes it is finished but if it is referring to the justification of the believer or the imputation of righteousness of Christ on account of His finished work, it is after one exercises faith in Jesus.

Again, you fail to reconcile Scriptures.

beloved57
January 27th, 2010, 12:35 AM
unprof:


Why don't you continue reading:

I did, but nothing in the chapter contradicts the fact that the elect while ungodly were Justified by God through Jesus christ..

While the elect were enemies by nature, they were reconciled to God by the death of His Son..

rom 5:

10For if, when we were enemies [ungodly], we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

If you dont believe being reconciled to God is the same as being Justified, then you dont understand neither..

beloved57
May 12th, 2010, 08:34 PM
Justification before God is based upon solely the imputed righteousness of Christ, which righteousness is freely laid to the account of all the members of the body of Christ, of the sheepfold, of all whom Christ died. They [the elect] are before the Tribunal of God, declared righteous, Justified, based upon Christ obedience unto death Phil 2:8

8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Rom 5:19

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Now that the foundation has been laid, God builds upon that, and now it is time for Justification by Faith or before the consciousness of those who have been declared righteous by the imputed righteousness of Christ, that being done, we now have the imparted righteousness of Christ.

beloved57
May 12th, 2010, 10:57 PM
Justification by Faith or before the consciousness of those who have been declared righteous by the imputed righteousness of Christ, that being done, we now have the imparted righteousness of Christ.

And so we have for all who have had Christ righteousness imputed to them, they also will in regeneration have it imparted to them. This is why Paul says that Christ of God has been made unto us sanctification. 1 Cor 1:30

30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This is also called sanctification of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

And of course sanctification of the Spirit results in belief of the Truth !

All for whom Christ died will sometime in their life partake of the imparted righteousness of Christ from regeneration, for Christ as our Saviour pours Him[The Holy Ghost] out unto all He has redeemed through His death Titus 3:5-7

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


6Which he shed[ pour out] on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Please, note, If Jesus Christ is ones Saviour, He will ensure our regeneration and renewing vs 5.

The Holy Ghost is bound by the covenant of Grace or redemption to impart Christ righteousness to all for whom He did die, and it is through His Divine work [ the Holy Ghost] that the redeemed one can believe on Christ and experience Justification by Faith. Faith has been given by the Holy Ghost, as it is one of His fruits [ Gal 5:22] or evidences that He has given the chosen one to partake experientially of the life of their risen Saviour.

It is for this reason that the Faith the elect have to believe is called the faith of Christ, because He gives all those for whom He died, His own Faith [ Gal 2:20], through regeneration of the Holy Spirit, in order that all His members of His body shall believe in Him, we believe in Him because of imparted righteousness.

beloved57
June 22nd, 2010, 07:03 AM
This is pure grace, that God Justified the elect while ungodly. While they are by nature ungodly, and children of wrath as others, God Justified them based on the work of Christ. The elect as other men are by nature lawbreakers [sinners] and of course sin must be punished, because it is sin, and Gods Justice must punish sin because He is Just and must do justice.

Now if sin has been imputed to Jesus Christ [ for it had to if He died for the elects sins 1 Cor 15:3] and [ 2Cor 5:21], then Justice [ of God] must smite the Person and sin of the Person bearing it, which in the case of Gods elect, is Jesus Christ. [ Note: one did not have to be born to be of Gods elect or for Christ to have died for their sins 1 Cor 15:3]

Once Justice has been satisfied, it is satisfied completely for all those Christ died for, which are the elect. It Justice has been satisfied once and for all, for it is called eternal redemption [ Heb 9:12]

Gods elect have been set free by the redemption in Christ blood for them, for all eternity, no penalty for sin, the broken law in their lives can ever be exacted to them.

For that is the meaning of Christ sacred words It is finished, He obtained eternal redemption for all Gods elect for all time.


Gods Justice for the sins of the elect will never, never, strike again !

The words It is finished, in the greek are in the perfect tense, denoting the once and for all permanency of His sacrifice and its effects.

The God Man, the Lord Jesus Christ has made the Infinite sacrifice for the sins and persons of Gods elect, the world of the elect. Punishment for His elect maximized itself on Christ, and based upon this the elect are set free, Gods righteous character is declared in His being satisfied in His Sons Sacrifice and because of this, The Holy Father can declare [ by grace] and look upon an unholy elect sinner, as Justified before Him, and He himself remains Just in that declaration. Rom 4:5

5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

So there are by nature, unholy and ungodly men and women, who are Just and righteous in Gods sight because of Christ satisfaction, propitiation to God, for their sins.

Even the thief on the cross, from the day he was born, he was from God's perspective, because of the blood of Christ, Justified eternally. For God Justifies the Ungodly, for Christ sake.

beloved57
September 2nd, 2010, 10:58 AM
Rom 4:5

5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Oh what matter of grace is this, that Justifies the ungodly. Not that He Justifieth the repentant, or the believer, though those believing certainly have been Justified, but they were Justified by grace, before believing and while ungodly or while being enemies Just as they were reconciled to God, while being enemies, that is ungodly Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son,

The Truth is one cannot be reconciled to God without being declared Justified before God, being accepted into His Favor. Now we know that no condemned criminal can be accepted into Gods Favor, but thats exactly what reconciled means.

Its the greek word:


Katallasso and means:

to reconcile (those who are at variance)
[B]return to favour with, be reconciled to one
to receive one into favour
Now, no person can be living as God's enemy [by nature] and in His Favor at the same time, unless God has already received a ransom payment for their sins.

That would be The Blood of His Son, and so they would be Justified by His blood Rom 5:9, while they were still by nature Gods enemy ! While they were yet in their life and practice ungodly.

So, therefore, by The blood of Christ, shed for the many, that many, are Justified before God while Ungodly, and hence, God Justifies the Ungodly. before Faith, before any gospel obedience on their part.

beloved57
September 6th, 2010, 01:38 AM
Isa 53:11

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

By His Knowledge [ not by their knowledge] my righteous servant shall justify many, how and why ? For He shall bear their sins or iniquities.

Many in religion today deny this scripture truth of Justification of the many, solely premised on the death of Christ, His dying in their stead, bearing their sins. What they do is wrest the words " by His Knowledge" and impose upon them the meaning, that by and because of the Faith of the sinner, this causes or results in God Justifying the many, hence, swiping away the crown from Christ substitutionary death as being the cause, and placing it on the head of the sinner who is being Justified.

But this verse does not say by their Faith or knowledge of Him, will my righteous servant Justify many, but by His [singular] knowledge, His knowledge of them [ His Sheep] and His knowledge of His Fathers will, He shall Justify many, because He bore their sins. He could not have bore their sins if He did not know them as per Matt 7:23

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

He shall Justify many by His obedience unto death Rom 5:18-19


18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation;

even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Not by their obedience shall they be made righteous, but by His obedience, the obedience of one, shall many be made righteous, which is to be Justified as the previous vs 18 points out, Justification of life !

Hence His knowledge of His church members in 2010 and dying for them in 33 ad, by that death for them, they were made righteous, they were Justified, because then He bore their sins in His body on the Tree 1 Pet 2:24

24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness [or be made righteous as in Rom 5:19]: by whose stripes ye were healed.

To deny this, is denying the accomplishment of the blood of Christ before God in Justifying every soul that He died for.

Scripture clearly declares that we [the elect] were Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9

9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Who dares denies that those now in 2010, who belong to Christ, for whom He died, who denies their Justification before God by His blood in 33 ad ?

beloved57
September 6th, 2010, 12:18 PM
1 Cor 2:12-13

12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us [Gods chosen] of God.


13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth;comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Of all books in the history of the world, none save the scriptures are spiritual.

Sure, one does not have to be spiritual to read and even study the bible, but in order to understand it, to the least degree, one must be spiritual or have been given the Spirit which is of God.


The word comparing in 1 Cor 2:13 in the greek is the word:

Sugkrino and means:


to joint together fitly, compound, combine
to interpret
to compare

Its not until we have born of the spirit that we can interpret the scriptures and join together the pieces of truth to the over all puzzle.

With that said, when scripture can be spiritually harmonized and shed light, one part on another part, there is nothing unlawful about that; Now in regards to Rom 4:5 and 5:10


Rom 4:5

5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

There is something interchangeably true about both of these scriptures, and that is being reconciled to God by the death of His Son, while yet being an enemie [by nature] is the same as being Justified by God while being Ungodly.

For one [though this will be denied] cannot be reconciled to God without being Justified as well !

Rom 5:10 can very well read without violation or wresting truth Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were ungodly, we were justified before God, by the death of his Son, much more, being justified, we shall be saved by his life.

Rom 4:5 can read as well

5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that reconciled the enemies, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Even the elect, by nature, we are enemies of God, but He does not view us as His enemie, because of Christ death for us. Yes by our actions we are worthy of Him being our enemy, but He is not, but we hate him by nature.

So, even when we the elect, are ungodly, that is by nature at enmity with God, we are Justified before Him Legally , how ? By the Death of His Son.

And, this is what God given Faith comes to believe and realize !

beloved57
September 14th, 2010, 07:59 AM
The scriptures teaches 3 types of Justification, and confusing them can be to our eternal peril, may God grant those who are His elect a understanding.

First and foremost, there is Justification before God, which is totally and 100% the Work of Jesus Christ, and the accomplishment of Jesus Christ.

Rom 4:25

25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Rom 5:9

9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Rom 3:24

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Secondly, There is Justification before our consciousness, which is the work of the Holy Ghost per 1 Cor 6:11

[B]11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Rom 5:1

1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

And thirdly, there is Justification before men, by the believers own testimony [word and deed] James 2:23-25

23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.


24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

This act of hers, did not make her Justified before God, for that she already was by the imputed Justification of Christ, but it made her to appear Justified before men, especially those spys, and for us today who read of this testimony of scripture of her and this deed.

There will be also yet in the future, a Justification of all of Gods elect before the whole Universe in the day of Judgment.

Now, even though all the above Justifications are important and should be rejoiced in, the First one [Justification before God by Christ work] is the most important, to be wrong on that one , makes the others that are subsequent wrong as well !

beloved57
July 18th, 2011, 10:06 PM
Titus 3:7

7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

What Paul is saying, is that by Christ death, which was by the Grace of God Heb 2:9, those Christ died for were made Righteous or Justified Rom 5:19

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience [Death Heb 2:9] of one shall many be made righteous.

Now as a result of this, those ones He tasted death for shall be made experientially Heirs according to the Hope of Eternal life, which was promised them Titus 1:2

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Notice how Paul used the phrase Twice in this epistle " Hope of Eternal life" !

But because we are freely by the Grace of God Justified, made Righteous Legally, God must now through the application work of the Holy Spirit make us Heirs experientially.

Notice Paul says right after stating that we are Justified by His Grace " we should be made"according to the hope of Eternal life.

The word made is the greek word ginomai and means:


to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being

2) to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen

What this means, is that we should now receive New Life, to become a New Creation, a New Man as in Eph 4:24

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

This New Man is created ktizō:


to create

a) of God creating the worlds

b) to form, shape, i.e. to completely change or transform

And so thats what God does for all who are Legally Justified by the Grace of God, He makes them Heirs experimentally by giving them New Being, New Existence, a Existence that prepares them for Eternal Life in Glory..

We are made meet Col 1:12

12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

Eternal Life is an Inheritance, and its bequeathed upon all the Heirs of Promise, the Children of Promise.

So those freely Justified by Grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus Rom 3:24 which is to say His Blood Eph 1:7, they will be given a New Life corresponding to what they are, Heirs of the Kingdom , which is Eternal life..

beloved57
February 13th, 2012, 09:31 PM
Rom 4:4-5

4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

That those whom Christ died for are Justified before believing, which pleases God [Heb 11:6] is evident from the fact that God Justifieth the Ungodly ! The word Justify here is in the present tense, denoting He was or is Justifying the Ungodly, while they are or were The Ungodly. This is the same as when Paul taught that the elect were reconciled to God while yet enemies Rom 5:10 !

Now how can this be ? Because they are reconciled or Justified by Christ's Blood [ Rom 5:9] and or His Death [Rom 5:10] and this before they believe !

Those Christ died for, shed His Blood for are not Justified by their pleasing God, but by His Pleasing God in their behalf, for it is said of Him by the Father Matt 3:1

And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

God Justifies the Ungodly, in that those Christ died for, shed His blood for, which blood Justified them before God, nevertheless they shall still be born as ungodly sinners as anyone else, but the Blood of Christ has always Justified them. To deny this Truth, is to deny the Gospel !

Jukia
February 13th, 2012, 10:23 PM
I think hell is reserved for those who cannot spell.

Stuart

No. it is reserveth for those who cannot spelleth.

Did all the King James translators lisp???

beloved57
March 25th, 2012, 06:04 PM
God Justifieth the Ungodly Rom 4:5

5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Note, its not Justifying the Believer, but the ones Believing , believed on Him that is Justifying the Ungodly, meaning God Justifieth the Elect while they were in a state of Ungodliness, as they were reconciled to God while they were being enemies Rom 5:10, even while they were being by nature Children of wrath as others !

Abraham was in a state of ungodliness when God Justified him ! As all are Justified by Christ's Righteousness, Abraham, while Ungodly was shown His Righteousness in the coming seed, so He rejoiced to see His Day !

DaveDodo007
March 25th, 2012, 08:57 PM
Who Justifieth the Ungodly.

Nobody and nor do we need it. We have science, knowledge, evidence and reason on our side. Get back to us when your Jack and the beanstalk rubbish has anything to back it up. I'll be waiting:-)

beloved57
March 25th, 2012, 09:13 PM
Who Justifieth the Ungodly.

Nobody and nor do we need it. We have science, knowledge, evidence and reason on our side. Get back to us when your Jack and the beanstalk rubbish has anything to back it up. I'll be waiting:-)


See ya at the Judgment !:guitar:

DaveDodo007
March 25th, 2012, 09:21 PM
See ya at the Judgment !:guitar:

Which one? Christianity, Islam, various pagan beliefs, Hindu, Valhalla, Judaism, The happy hunting grounds or dreamtime. There are so many gods and so many beliefs it's hard to keep track. Still the beers are on me when we meet up in the afterlife.:banana:

beloved57
March 26th, 2012, 09:05 AM
d


Which one?

You find out when you get there !

beloved57
March 27th, 2012, 11:15 AM
Paul writes Rom 5:9

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

The Elect are Justified solely by the Blood of Christ, even before they are saved ! Paul states to the Church, being now Justified by His Blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. The we here is not just those he was then writing to, but includes all for whom the Blood of the Covenant was shed for, the many Matt 26:28, for they all were Justified by His Blood no matter what generation they would be born in, they shall be saved from wrath through Him ! All the Elect of God because of the Blood of Christ alone are saved from God's Wrath in this Life and the One to come. Those born children of wrath by nature, are even saved from God's Wrath, were others are said to have it abiding on them Jn 3:36

36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

God's wrath cannot be abiding on a Justified person, made so by Christ's Obedience Rom 5:19b, even though they are born enemies and unbelievers by Nature as Others !

beloved57
March 31st, 2012, 03:27 PM
Rom 4:6

6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

God imputes Righteousness without Works , that is previous acts from the sinner, without works. Works is the greek word ergon and means:

business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

Basically this means that this person or persons had Righteousness imputed unto them for not doing anything !

This includes heart Work by which we Believe Rom 10:10

10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This is so because Righteousness is imputed solely because of Christ's Obedience to Law and Justice on behalf of all He died in the stead of Rom 5:19

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

All for whom Christ died [The Many] have Righteousness imputed to them, even while they are " by nature, children of wrath as others" !

SeraphimsCherub
March 31st, 2012, 03:39 PM
"GOD Justifies the ungodly": this is the most remarkable verse in the Scriptures! The self-righteous man will scoff at this forever! For:Mat_9:12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
Mar_2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Luk_5:31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.

beloved57
March 31st, 2012, 07:46 PM
Who are the objects of God's Justification ?

I do not believe it can be made more plainer who they are Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.


It's the Elect of God, and them only !

beloved57
April 1st, 2012, 04:19 AM
All for whom Christ died scripture indicates that they are Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9

9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

The word Justified is the greek word dikaioō and means:


to render righteous or such he ought to be

2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

So everyone Christ died for is declared Righteous before God, and their deliverance from God's Wrath is ensured, that is from His retributive wrath for their sins. They by the Blood of Christ [alone] are freed from the Law of sin and Death, in that God in Justice can never punish them for their sins again for Christ's Sake. Even when one who is covered by the Blood of the lamb, is born into this world as a by nature, child of wrath as others, they are never and can never be under God's vindictive and punitive wrath, for that could only be if Christ had not already satisfied all of God's Law and Justice on their behalf by His Cross ! Consequently, every ungodly sinner that is born into this world, whom Christ died for Rom 5:6, shed His Blood for, are already Justified from all things, and stand before God clothed in the perfect Righteousness of Christ, solely by Grace Rom 3:24; Yes in themselves deserving as others wrath and condemnation, but because of Christ, they are born into this world, even as ungodly sinners, Heirs of Eternal Glory !

SeraphimsCherub
April 1st, 2012, 04:35 AM
All for whom Christ died scripture indicates that they are Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9

9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

The word Justified is the greek word dikaioō and means:


to render righteous or such he ought to be

2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

So everyone Christ died for is declared Righteous before God, and their deliverance from God's Wrath is ensured, that is from His retributive wrath for their sins. They by the Blood of Christ [alone] are freed from the Law of sin and Death, in that God in Justice can never punish them for their sins again for Christ's Sake. Even when one who is covered by the Blood of the lamb, is born into this world as a by nature, child of wrath as others, they are never and can never be under God's vindictive and punitive wrath, for that could only be if Christ had not already satisfied all of God's Law and Justice on their behalf by His Cross ! Consequently, every ungodly sinner that is born into this world, whom Christ died for Rom 5:6, shed His Blood for, are already Justified from all things, and stand before God clothed in the perfect Righteousness of Christ, solely by Grace Rom 3:24; Yes in themselves deserving as others wrath and condemnation, but because of Christ, they are born into this world, even as ungodly sinners, Heirs of Eternal Glory !

Amen bro! Beautifully put!

Charity
April 1st, 2012, 04:56 AM
something that is built should not be called a building, why would you need the blood an flesh of a living Man, whom just told the person before you, Go now your sins are forgiven...whats wrong with you that he needs to be cut off from the living to save you? Faith is made weak without question! Words are made powerless.

beloved57
April 1st, 2012, 01:25 PM
Amen bro! Beautifully put!

Do you understand what I am saying here ? Break down to me what you perceive me saying here please !

beloved57
April 1st, 2012, 01:27 PM
something that is built should not be called a building, why would you need the blood an flesh of a living Man, whom just told the person before you, Go now your sins are forgiven...whats wrong with you that he needs to be cut off from the living to save you? Faith is made weak without question! Words are made powerless.

Do you understand post 39 ?

SeraphimsCherub
April 1st, 2012, 02:28 PM
Do you understand what I am saying here ? Break down to me what you perceive me saying here please !

Yes my friend i can. I perceive that the point your making clear is that all of GOD'S people were chosen in Christ before the world even began! Christ was already our Guarantee to suffer for every single sin that each and every individual would commit, whom the Father gave to Christ before the foundation of the world this was already settled BY GOD. Being Predestined By The Determined WILL OF ALMIGHTY GOD! IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM NOT TO RECEIVE CHRIST AS THEIR SAVIOUR BY HIS SPIRIT IN TIME! FOR ALL OF GOD'S ELECT IS EXACTLY WHAT CHRIST'S WORK ON THE CROSS WAS,AND IS TO EFFECT! There are no loose ends with GOD! ALL HIS WORK,AND HIS PEOPLE ARE PERFECTLY CONNECTED TOGETHER IN ONE{CHRIST JESUS} BY THE SPIRIT/HIS SPIRIT/WHICH IS THE SPIRIT OF ALMIGHTY GOD!

beloved57
April 1st, 2012, 04:05 PM
sc


Yes my friend i can. I perceive that the point your making clear is that all of GOD'S people were chosen in Christ before the world even began!

Yes ! The Elect,not all men without exception !


Christ was already our Guarantee to suffer for every single sin that each and every individual would commit, whom the Father gave to Christ before the foundation of the world this was already settled BY GOD.

Yes, He was the Surety of God's People. He was bound by Covenant Engagement to be 100 % responsible for the law breaking of all God's Elect, in fact Their sins were not even charged to the Elect, but to Him before the world began ! 2 Cor 5:19


Being Predestined By The Determined WILL OF ALMIGHTY GOD! IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM NOT TO RECEIVE CHRIST AS THEIR SAVIOUR BY HIS SPIRIT IN TIME!

Yes, they had been ordained to eternal life, so they would believe Acts 13:48, 2 Thess 2:13


FOR ALL OF GOD'S ELECT IS EXACTLY WHAT CHRIST'S WORK ON THE CROSS WAS,AND IS TO EFFECT!

Yes !


There are no loose ends with GOD! ALL HIS WORK,AND HIS PEOPLE ARE PERFECTLY CONNECTED TOGETHER IN ONE{CHRIST JESUS} BY THE SPIRIT/HIS SPIRIT/WHICH IS THE SPIRIT OF ALMIGHTY GOD!

Sounds Good.

Charity
April 2nd, 2012, 01:37 AM
Do you understand post 39 ?

hey beloved. Its all a fancy way for the ruthless murderers to have people view their actions as good! Nobody would want a bar of it except they are forced into a corner an threatened with eternal damnation... desiring Blood would make no difference over sins then or now!

beloved57
April 10th, 2012, 04:27 PM
If God Justifieth the Ungodly, then it is reasonable to conclude that God did Justify them, all for whom Christ died, before they had yet been given saving Faith, and while they were ungodly enemies ! Rom 4:5

5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

The word ungodly here is the greek word asebēs and means:


destitute of reverential awe towards God, condemning God, impious

Everyone Christ died for and Justified by His Blood[Rom 4:25], are being born into the world ungodly, but they are already Justified by Christ's Blood, if Christ did die for them !

Thats why Paul preaches that we is Justified freely by Grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, meaning His Death ! Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

beloved57
April 21st, 2012, 06:29 PM
Justified before God before and apart from Faith !


That all for whom Christ died, shed His Blood for, gave Himself for, that they are all Justified before God by it [His Blood] even as the blessed resurrection so declares it Rom 4:25: That this is the case is collaborated by the Truth of Rom 5:19b

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

That by the one obedience [active and passive] of ONE MAN ALONE [Jesus Christ] many SHALL be made Righteous, or as the Prophet Isaiah says it, He shall Justify many Isa 53:11

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Some Translate like this

ESV Isa 53:11

Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see[a] and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous,
and he shall bear their iniquities.

So it is by the obedience of ONE, shall many be declared Righteous or Justified. Now this comes about by only the obedience of One, and not Two, which would be the case if Faith by the believer is being considered, in that, that is also obedience, as in the obedience of Faith Rom 16:26

26 but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring [B]about the obedience of faith—

Also Rom 10:16-17

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?”

17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

These makes it clear that Faith is an act of obedience to the Gospel. Those who say Faith is not an act of obedience, are LIARS,plain and simple.

But according to the Truth of Rom 5:19b, many shall be made righteous, and that not by the obedience of Two, but one ! To deny this, debate it, is nothing but rejection of the Gospel Truth !

http://www.baptistboard.com/images/curves/misc/progress.gif

DaveDodo007
April 22nd, 2012, 05:34 PM
Science justifies us.

beloved57
April 22nd, 2012, 07:12 PM
Science justifies us.

Will se ya at the Judgment mr science !

beloved57
April 22nd, 2012, 10:43 PM
That those Christ died for are Justified before they believe, made Righteous or Just Rom 5:19

by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

That word righteous is the greek word dikaios and is translated Just 33 times, for instance here Rom 1:16-17


17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

So Rom 5:19 could actually read:

by the obedience of one shall many be made Just

The obedience here is His Death, by His obedience unto death [Phil 2:8] shall many be made Just !

Now, all those who are Just [Justified] by His Obedience, shall live by Faith in the future.

So clearly, being made Just or Justified, precedes living by Faith. This is Justification before God before Faith !

Gal 3:11

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Heb 10:38

Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Hab 2:4

Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

beloved57
April 23rd, 2012, 04:08 PM
Justified by Grace ! Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Justification is a gracious act of God, because of the redemption in Christ's Blood Eph 1:7 !

That even when unworthy in ourselves, and ungodly Rom 5:6; Rom 4:5, God does freely acquit us, that is all for whom Christ died, of all Transgressions of His Law, and accepts us into His Favour and declares us Righteous, with a Righteousness that has been freely imputed to us, even while we ourselves are in unbelief !

This free and gracious Justification of All for whom Christ died, will in God's time, will be revealed to each of them for whom He died and Justified, so they shall live by Faith !

Faith being not a condition, but a means of revealing or making known that Justification, that already exists in God's Mind, that is already credited to ones account, because of Christ's redemptive blood.

beloved57
April 23rd, 2012, 08:12 PM
Faith being not a condition, but a means of revealing or making known that Justification, that already exists in God's Mind, that is already credited to ones account, because of Christ's redemptive blood.

Justification by Faith is how God has ordained that the Justified ones find out about and realize their Justification freely given to them by God through Jesus Christ ! This is why it is written, the Just or Justified shall live by Faith, hence everyone Christ died for and shed His Blood for, are Justified before God because of it [Rom 5:9] they must be given Faith, a Fruit of the Spirit of God, to embrace and receive consciously that Peace with God, which Christ's redemptive blood accomplished for them as God's Elect, and so is so called " The Faith of God's Elect"

Those who take Justification by Faith [ Rom 5:1] and declare it to be a condition of man, that he must meet, in order to God to Justify them, they PERVERT the Truth of Justification by Grace and Faith, and do preach a false and accursed Gospel. That Justification is received by Faith, as it is revealed to the Justified one, we most heartily agree, but to state that it is a condition in order to get Justified before God, we reject as criminal and Apostate !

beloved57
April 24th, 2012, 06:42 AM
Faith is not the causative reason for one's Justification before God unless we are strictly speaking of Christ's Faith or Faithfulness, but rather it is the sense, or perception, and evidence of ones Justification [ Heb 11:1] for it is Christ's Righteousness as imputed that only Justifies before God, and this is revealed from Faith to Faith to heaven born Faith ! Faith is a spiritual grace or fruit [Gal 5:22] and enabling produced by the Holy Spirit of God that gives the redeemed sinner eyes to see in Christ a imputed Righteousness, now having by Him also convicted of our own sinfulness by nature, we do turn from our own Righteousness, and succumb to the Righteousness we have had revealed to us by the Gospel, provided by Christ Rom 1:16-17, hence the Spirit of God bears witness with our spirit that we are indeed Justified and do have peace with God through Jesus Christ, and do become evidentially as well as declaratively Justified by the Spirit of God 1 Cor 6:11. Now Faith reveals to the Elect sinner, their state in Christ, and their free gift of Righteousness through Him Rom 5:17-18

17For if by one man's offense death reigned by one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by One, Jesus Christ.

18Therefore as by the offense of one, judgment to condemnation came upon all men, even so by the righteousness of One, the free gift unto justification of life came upon all men.

genuineoriginal
April 24th, 2012, 06:51 AM
Faith being not a condition, but a means of revealing or making known that Justification, that already exists in God's Mind, that is already credited to ones account, because of Christ's redemptive blood.

Justification by Faith is how God has ordained that the Justified ones find out about and realize their Justification freely given to them by God through Jesus Christ ! This is why it is written, the Just or Justified shall live by Faith, hence everyone Christ died for and shed His Blood for, are Justified before God because of it [Rom 5:9] they must be given Faith, a Fruit of the Spirit of God, to embrace and receive consciously that Peace with God, which Christ's redemptive blood accomplished for them as God's Elect, and so is so called " The Faith of God's Elect"

Those who take Justification by Faith [ Rom 5:1] and declare it to be a condition of man, that he must meet, in order to God to Justify them, they PERVERT the Truth of Justification by Grace and Faith, and do preach a false and accursed Gospel. That Justification is received by Faith, as it is revealed to the Justified one, we most heartily agree, but to state that it is a condition in order to get Justified before God, we reject as criminal and Apostate !
Then you don't know what the scriptures say.

Habakkuk 2:4 KJV
4Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Habakkuk 2:4 YLT
4Lo, a presumptuous one! Not upright is his soul within him, And the righteous by his stedfastness liveth.

beloved57
May 16th, 2012, 05:59 AM
God's Justification of His Elect is Twofold, it is first and foremost forensic and declarative of God's Mind, and then it is experimental or internal, fir then God causes the Justified to live like it by Faith, for the experimental comes by the New Birth. All those whom God Justifies judicially by the Blood of Christ and His Grace Alone per Rom 5:9;3:24 shall be Justified experimentally by the Spirit 1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

This scripture confirms a first Justification by Christ, His Blood, or in His Name, followed by the Justification the Spirit accomplishes, which is also because of Christ's Name or in recognition of His Work ! Hence God gives grace for the living according to their Judicial status. That is why it is imperative that all for whom Christ died, must be born again Rom 5:19b

so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous [experimentally by New Birth].

In addition to making Christ's obedience the sole basis of forensic Justification, it is also the sole basis for constitutive righteousness which is brought to pass by New Birth !

beloved57
May 16th, 2012, 09:55 PM
Titus 3:3

For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

Even though the Elect by Nature were disobedient, yet even then, Paul never classified them and neither were they ever " The children of disobedience" as per Eph 2:2

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

In the greek the children of disobedience reads "toiv uioiv thv apeiqeiav;:

The definite article makes it clear that these are a definite group of people, they are the vessels of wrath Paul writes on in Rom 9:22. In other words, the children of disobedience will always be the children of disobedience !

The Elect, even though by Nature are children of wrath as others, and walk according to the prince of the power of the air, yet they have already been accepted or Highly Favored in the Beloved Eph 1:6

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Yes, they have that status before God, by Grace, prior to their actual quickening in the Time state Eph 2:5

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

The difference, the Elect, because of Christ's obedience, they shall be made Righteous ! Rom 5:19 and this is done by their New Birth by the Spirit, which causes their obedience to the Truth 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Belief of the Truth and obedience are the same !

beloved57
June 2nd, 2012, 07:38 PM
Faith believes on Him that Justifieth the ungodly. That is God given faith receives the Divine Testimony that God Justified His People solely upon Christ's death per Rom 8:33-34, and not on account of any works or conditions performed by men, but while they were being ungodly and enemies in themselves, God was justifying them by the death of His Son ! Also God imputes righteousness to all for whom Christ died or was made sin for 2 Cor 5:21; Rom 5:19 without works, this is testified Rom 4:6

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Now without works means without believing, for believing is a work performed by the mind of man. The word works ergon means:

business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

So now if God imputes Righteousness because one did believe a testimony, then Rom 4:6 cannot be true ! If God justifies any sinner or accounts them righteous because of believing, then He is responding to good, virtuous dispositions within him the man, which cannot be if He is Justifying the Ungodly. Ungodly means:

destitute of reverential awe towards God, condemning God, impious

For Paul writes 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

And this fact of accomplishment s received by God given Faith !

beloved57
June 19th, 2012, 12:49 PM
Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Now who shall lay anything to the charge[Against] of God's Elect ? It is God that Justifieth [declares righteous]

Quite frankly here, the non charge by God regarding His Elect, is their Justification !

Nothing of the Elect's performance is regarded in the matter. Now who are those whom God will not lay charges against ? Quite frankly it is for all those Christ died, which reasonably means, the charges that should have been laid or charged against them, were laid or charged upon Him, leaving them Justified by God !

God did not lay iniquity upon them, but upon Him Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid[or charged or to strike] on him the iniquity of us all.

beloved57
July 10th, 2012, 06:45 AM
Justified by His Grace before the world began !

Rom 3:24

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Titus 3:7

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


This Grace by which God's Elect are Justified was given them in Him before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

So if Grace was given them so early, then Justification by that Grace was given to at the same date !

Also were they accepted in Him at that date ! Eph 1:4-6

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace [Given 2 Tim 1:9], wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

beloved57
July 11th, 2012, 08:40 AM
What man made religion does not know and understand, but at the same time that Christ was setup as the Surety of the Everlasting Covenant, the transgressions of all He represented, all the Father gave Him, they were charged to Him or imputed to Him, and so at that time they were discharged from all their guilt they would incur and declared Righteous or Justified !

beloved57
July 20th, 2012, 09:43 PM
When Paul teaches that one is Justified by Faith, Rom 5:1, he does not mean as the false teachers tell us, that one is Justified before God because of our act of faith or of believing, but that God given Faith embraces a Righteousness revealed to it, that was not our own Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein[The Gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Phil 3:9

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

The false teachers tells us that God counts their own faith as their Righteousness, which contradicts this very Truth !

beloved57
July 26th, 2012, 09:29 AM
The ungodly Elect are Justified by the blood of Christ alone before God's bar of Justice, before they know of it and embrace it by Faith, and so Rom 5:1 means that God given Faith has now embraced or received the fact of having been afore time Justified by Christ's Blood Rom 5:9 or His Grace Titus 3:7; 2 Tim 1:9; It is then Faith introduces us into the Grace that we stand Rom 5:2 in before God because of the Blood and Merits of Christ on our behalf !

The NASB is good here for Rom 5:2

through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.

However the Elect's whole unconverted life was spent under the Justifying blood of Christ, being preserved until being called Jude 1:1

Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Calling follows being preserved. Paul recognized his preservation until called also by grace Gal 1:15

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

You see, regardless if we realize it by faith or not, the Blood of Christ has paid the sin debt one owed to God's Law and Justice, that was incurred in Adam and in our own physical persons. You see it is the Blood of Christ that had the Justifying merit before God, not our act of believing it ! Our believing it is only God giving us our own comfort and assurance of it !

beloved57
August 2nd, 2012, 08:42 AM
In the Mind of God , a Person whom Christ died in behalf of is no more Justified after they believe, than they were before they believed, for God's Justification of one does not depend upon the act of man, which believing is, for if we believe not, He remains faithful [to the Covenant with His Son] and that is to Justify by His Blood, all for whom He died and Represented !

TruthSetsFree
August 2nd, 2012, 08:53 AM
Who Justifieth the Ungodly

Rom 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 5:6

For when we [The elect] were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

before God..
__________________

dont know what version of the Bible u use

but i have never read a version that said... "without strenth"

in any case... not sure what your point is??

everyone knows that is Christ who saves...

christians anyhow belive that..

didnt read the whole post because... didn't agree w/ the wording of the 1st part

but i thought maybe u could put it clearly what the point is?

beloved57
August 2nd, 2012, 12:35 PM
truth


dont know what version of the Bible u use

Rabbit trail !

beloved57
August 3rd, 2012, 04:42 AM
It is not Faith itself that Justifies the Elect, but God Himself Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

It is He that Imputes Righteousness unto them on behalf of Christ's Work for them, and that is what Faith has at it's view when God reveals this Righteousness Inputed by the Preaching of the Gospel to them Rom 1:16-17, so it is each child of Abraham will as Abraham did, have the Gospel Preached individually to them Gal 3:8

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

By the Spirit's application of it to their minds and hearts, and God given Faith will embrace it and embrace Him that did Justify, God or God through Christ Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

beloved57
August 4th, 2012, 04:17 PM
Rom 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

To be Justified by Faith we have Peace with God : But now Christ is Our Peace with God before We believe Eph 2:14 However ones Peace consciously or knowingly comes through our believing after it is revealed , by the Power of the Holy Spirit Rom 15:13

13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

beloved57
August 5th, 2012, 07:20 AM
Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Being rendered Righteous by His Blood. Now what Paul means is that God has imputed Righteousness to everyone Christ has died for, which also ensures they all will be saved from wrath [second death] through Him. No one Christ died shall ever see the Wrath of God ! 1 Thess 1:10

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

The Fact that Christ was raised from the dead after dying for all those He died for, that fact ensures they all shall be and even are delivered from the Wrath to come ! Rom 4:25 tells us all whom He died, that His resurrection in their behalf evidences their Justification Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

Thats why Paul says " Now being Justified by His Blood" because the resurrection proved that the Blood did just that ! Isa writes Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied:[B] by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

He Justified many because He bear their iniquties or shed His Blood !

The word Justify in Isa 53:11 is the hebrew word tsadaq and means:


to be just, be righteous

a) (Qal)

1) to have a just cause, be in the right

2) to be justified

3) to be just (of God)

4) to be just, be righteous (in conduct and character)

b) (Niphal) to be put or made right, be justified

c) (Piel) justify, make to appear righteous, make someone righteous

d) (Hiphil)

1) to do or bring justice (in administering law)

2) to declare righteous, justify

3) to justify, vindicate the cause of, save

4) to make righteous, turn to righteousness

e) (Hithpael) to justify oneself

So everyone He died for is declared Righteous, so Imputation has taken Place.

This declaration is before Faith or before we believe, for Christ's Blood was accepted by God In satisfaction for all the sins of everyone He died for over 2000 yrs ago, which means our Justification by Christ's Blood is at least that old !

beloved57
August 21st, 2012, 11:57 AM
Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we [The Elect] should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

This does refer back to Titus 1:1-2

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

In other words since all the Election of Grace has been Justified by Grace, it is only becoming that each one of them should be made experientially an Heir of Promise by New Birth. We are made meet as it is stated here Col 1:12-13

12 Giving thanks unto the Father not our freewill, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Also it is what is meant in 2 Cor 5:21 to be made the Righteousness of God. The word made here in 2 Cor 5:21 and Titus 3:7 is the greek word ginomai and means:


to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being

This speaks of becoming a New Creature, a New being or Birth or man in Christ !

Also Rom 5:19b

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Being Justified by Christ's Blood or Obedience, we shall be made experientially Righteous [By New Birth] Just as because of Adam's disobedience we were made experientially unrighteous or sinners or ungodly !

beloved57
August 31st, 2012, 09:34 PM
Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

This scripture is pretty plain, the sense of which tells us that God Justifies or is Justifying those who are in a state of the Ungodly. The word ungodly is the greek word Asebes and means:

destitute of reverential awe towards God, condemning God, impious

So in light of this, if we are Justified before God at all, it was before our believing, for scripture never calls a Believer Ungodly, so we would be Justified before we believe or are called believers as here Acts 5:14

And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women )

1 Tim 4:12

Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.


Yes, for as Reconciliation, we were reconciled to God , while yet being enemies or unbelievers, by the Death or Blood of God's Son Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So we were Justified Justified before God by the Death of God's Son, while being enemies or unbelievers, for how could we be one without the other ; that is Reconciled to God, before His Law and Justice, and yet not Justified before God"s Law and Justice by the same Death or Blood of Christ , while being enemies ?

For God doeth both Justifieth and Reconciles the Ungodly by the Blood of Christ, only false brethren deny this Truth !

beloved57
September 5th, 2012, 12:32 PM
The Elect of God does not receive a knowledge or spiritual comfort of their Justification before God before Faith, however all of them in spite of their knowledge of it, are free from any condemnation and eternal vengeance that belongs to their sins, even before they become believers, for they all were accepted in the Beloved, and declared Righteous by the Father, because non of their sins had been imputed to them ! Eph 1:4-6, and they were totally absolved of any Punishment due them before they believed as after they believed, because the Redemption price had already been paid for their remission, all their sins had been born 1 Pet 2:24, The Soul of Christ had been Offered for them Isa 53:10

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

So the Elect of God are born Children of wrath as others by nature, but with this difference, they are absolved from all obligation to do anything that gives to God the least satisfaction for their sins, this before he receives the knowledge of the remission of sins by Faith !

beloved57
September 6th, 2012, 06:21 PM
The scripture is pretty clear about the fact that those Christ died for, even while they are enemies, that is even while they are in hostile unbelief, they have nevertheless been reconciled / justified to God, by His Death; Now that being the case, it is inconsistent with reconciliation, for any for whom Christ died, that even while they are enemies in unbelief, to yet be under the God's wrath and condemnation as per Jn 3:18,36

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

That cannot apply to any Christ died for while in unbelief

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Thats impossible for the wrath of God to be abiding on anyone reconciled to God by the death of His Son, even while they believeth not !

beloved57
September 10th, 2012, 11:37 AM
One writer wrote and I quote:


Justification is an act of God's Sovereign pleasure constituting persons Righteous in the Righteousness of Another and eternally promising to the Lord Redeemer, a discharge to them upon his engagement to perform Covenant conditions perfectly for them. This sovereign Will and Compact of God that unalterably fixes the end, fixes the means conducing thereunto; and this is one of the principal means, that they should of themselves lose their own personal righteousness in Adam their Head, so that they might be alone completely Righteous in the Righteousness of the Redeemer. So far as they are to be understood to have a Representative being in their Everlasting Head, so far as considered in Him they were never otherwise than righteous. Richard Davis {Vindication of the Doctrine of Justification and Union before Faith, 1698.}

Now Two Points of note here. That is all the conditions for Justification before God, hath been fulfilled by Christ, for each Person He knew and died for Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many;[Why?] for he shall bear their iniquities.

It was also said of Old of Him to them I have given thee a Covenant unto the People/ Gentiles Isa 42:6-7

6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

This scripture passage informs us a Mystery, that some Gentiles were partakers of the Covenant's of Promise made to Israel Eph 2:11-12

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. Which Blood is that of the New Covenant Matt 26:28

Isa 42:6 is such Covenant Promise to Israel

Also this Covenant is the Everlasting Covenant, known in time as the New Covenant.

Secondly ,It should not be ignored that the blessed effects of the Covenant, which Christ fulfilled, that these effects are made good to the Heirs of the Covenant, not for their sakes primarily, but for the sake of Him who fulfilled all the conditions of the Covenant, on their behalf, Christ ! For instance, forgiveness of all their sins [Justification] is for HIS SAKE as stated here 1 Jn 2:12

12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

This is a bullet to the head to all conditionalist, who falsely teach one is forgiven upon conditions, such as faith or repentance, thats not Truth, they are forgiven for His Names Sake. More scripture to confirm this point Eph 4:32

32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

And since Christ is also God it reads Isa 43:25

25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

Thats remission of sins also. Sins can never be charged to anyone Christ died for as a matter of condemnation, that is why forgiveness of sins is also a branch of Justification !

This should stop the mouth's of those false teachers who conditions forgiveness or Justification before God on the sake of mens performances, such as Faith or Repentance!

beloved57
September 17th, 2012, 11:15 AM
There is a big difference in Justification before God by the Death of Christ, and Justification before our conscious by the Gift of Faith given in the New Birth. Yes even conscious Justification which brings purification and peace of heart or mind, however receiving those blessings are not Justification itself, that fact is purely and solely accomplished by the Work of Christ, His Blood, which took away our sins, before the Law and Justice of God ! His Blood cleanses us from all sin, whether we believe it or not or know it or not, that fact still remains and is credited solely to the Blood of Christ ! Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Notice Justification while being saved is future !

SeraphimsCherub
September 17th, 2012, 11:42 AM
Is the most AMAZING verse in all of SCRIPTURE! One that makes the self-righteous cringe,and nash with their teeth about! They can't bear the thought that their most holy works,and deeds by which they seek the praises of men,and to be seen of them. So that they may glory in their self-made GOLDEN IMAGE,and PRETTY VIRTUE! Which are like filthy rotten rags in the eye's of GOD!


Blessings...
SC

beloved57
September 19th, 2012, 05:22 AM
Justification by faith is God's declaring personally to a person, in their consciousness, that by Christ, His Blood, they are made just, they are forgiven of all their sins, have no condemnation in Christ, so that the person perceives and lays hold of this Divine declaration by Holy Spirit given Faith. Faith or believing in Christ is not an act man performs as an condition in order to their Justification before God, for that automatically defaults to Justification by my works, and not by faith in its proper sense. Therefore faith is the primary instrument by which God declares or makes known to the Justified, that he or she is Justified, so faith is the substance of things hoped for , the reality of things [spiritual] not seen.

SeraphimsCherub
September 19th, 2012, 05:40 AM
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Here we can see that it is the Divine Faith "of" JESUS,which gives us the power to "believe" "in" JESUS.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

beloved57
September 19th, 2012, 07:22 AM
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Here we can see that it is the Divine Faith "of" JESUS,which gives us the power to "believe" "in" JESUS.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.


Heb 12:2

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;

beloved57
September 19th, 2012, 10:52 AM
Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Thats Right, Christ's Resurrection equals our Justification if He died for our offences !

That all those for whom Christ died, being that all their offenses were imputed to His account, so that for them He was delivered to death, so it was, that when He was raised again, it was for or because of their Justification, that is to say, that His Resurrection was a declaration of His and their Justification before God. It does not say that He rose again for the future purpose of their Justification, but because of, for that reason, was He raised again, because of their [The Ones He died for] Justification ! If Christ had not risen, faith would be vain, because those He died for would yet still be in their sins, unjustified before God.

Those who teach that Christ's Death alone does not satisfy God's Law and Justice for their Justification before God, but a subsequent work of the Spirit is needed or any type of application of it is needed to the ones Justified by Christ's Blood, they are liars and Antichrist ! Thats taking away from the Accomplishment of Christ's Blood alone !

beloved57
October 20th, 2012, 02:54 PM
When one is Justified by Faith in time, it is when God has made known to them the Mystery of His Will or Decree of their Eternal Justification, it is then they are being made consciously aware of God's Justifying sentence, that was from Eternity due to His Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11 and that Eternal Compact or Agreement in the Everlasting Covenant between the Father and Son, the Spirit bearing witness, for God makes the Covenant known to Spiritual Faith 2 Sam 23:5

Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.

Ps 25:14

14 The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

So being Justified by Faith in Time is nothing less than being made known to us our Eternal Interest in God's Eternal Covenant with His Son, and our interest in the Blood of the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20, and this was before being revealed to us a Mystery of God's Will Eph 1:7-9

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Thats Justification by Faith !

beloved57
October 22nd, 2012, 05:07 PM
Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Justification by or at the resurrection of Jesus Christ, those who are most ignorant of the accomplishment of Christ's Death, that it did in fact Justify those He died for, they are guilty of denying the very witness of the Resurrection of Christ ! Let me explain, The Life and Death of Christ has fulfilled God's Law in its entirety, all of its Holy Requirements, Obedience to all of its precepts, and even Death for its Transgression, so all for whom He died is Justified by His Death ! Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Now what does knowledge here mean in context of the subject of the verse ? Many believe that it refers to the knowledge of the one being Justified by Christ's Death, their Faith ! Even though I can see that, yet the verse says by His Knowledge, that is by the Knowledge of the Righteous Servant shall He Justify many ! This Knowledge must be connected somehow to His Death. The word for knowledge here is the Hebrew Word da`ath and means:


knowledge

a) knowledge, perception, skill

b) discernment, understanding, wisdom

This word is derived from the Hebrew Word yada which means:


to know by experience

So its by His experience with Death or by His Tasting of Death Heb 2:9

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

The word taste here is the greek word geuomai and means:


to taste, to try the flavour of

2) to taste

a) i.e. perceive the flavour of, partake of, enjoy

b) to feel, make trial of, experience

3) to take food, eat, to take nourishment, eat

So by His Experiencing Death, experiencing its flavor, by it He Justified many, because He bare their sin, again pointing to His Death !

GWT He will see and be satisfied because of his suffering. My righteous servant will acquit many people because of what he has learned [through suffering]. He will carry their sins as a burden.

This Translation compares to what the Writer of Hebrews Wrote here Heb 5:8

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

The word learned here means:

to learn, be apprised

a) to increase one's knowledge, to be increased in knowledge

b) to hear, be informed

c) to learn by use and practice

1) to be in the habit of, accustomed to

So, Isa 53:11 is a clear proclamation that the Death of Christ alone, made those whom sins He bare Justified before God !

And so their Justification here is not their Justification by Faith, which will occur at a later time,because the promise is " The Just [or Justified] shall live by Faith.

Now that we know from scripture that we were Justified by His Death, that is what His Resurrection Proves Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences [ He bare our Sins Isa 53:11], and was raised again for [B]our justification.

The Resurrection of Christ is God's Testimony public ally that those Christ died for, bare their sins, that they were Justified, and faith shall later receive the Testimony of God !

So to say that one for whom Christ died was not solely Justified before God by Christ's Death, is to Call God a Liar and the Resurrection a Liar !

beloved57
October 27th, 2012, 07:14 PM
Rom 8:30

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Those here in this context that God calls, its an effectual call, and all those thus called are Justified, no exceptions, this Justification that follows the call in time is making known Justification by the revealing of imputed Righteousness by the Gospel Rom 1:16-17, its when the called receives by faith a consciousness of the imputed obedience and satisfaction of Christ unto them as their Righteousness. They now receive and rest on Christ and His Righteousness revealed, by Faith, which faith they have not of themselves, this faith is also the Gift of God, Phil 1:29, Yes this faith accompanies Salvation Heb 6:9

9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

beloved57
October 29th, 2012, 03:30 PM
Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

The fact of the matter is this, ones believing [active] is the fruit of God's Justifying. Lets look at Acts 13:38-39

38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

In Vs 39 lets understand, Now all that by Him [ His Cross Work] all that believe, which in the greek is a present active participle, which means "is believing" they are in a present state of believing [ see also Jn 3:16 believe there in greek] are Justified, which word is present passive indicative which means: are being Justified, So everyone believing is Justified, by this here Paul gives us the results of being Justified, for a person cannot be Justified by his faith which is active, while Justification before God is passive, so conclusion, mans active Faith or believing is the fruit of or result of being Justified ! God was Justifying them while Ungodly, not while they were believing. For when one is believing, he is not being ungodly but pleasing God !

beloved57
October 31st, 2012, 09:51 PM
Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Paul here means non imputation as in Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute or sin or lay sin to his charge.

Rom 8:33 says that one is Justified !

Now if God justifies the elect legally because of non imputation of sin, and Justification also means to be declared righteous; then it stands to reason that at the same hour of non imputation, there was imputation of Christ's Righteousness, since God must first see us as Righteous legally in order to declare us Righteous legally, which Righteousness is not our own Rom 4:6-8 !

For Christ's Righteousness is ever before God's Law and Justice on behalf of The chosen ones; and this Righteousness is objective Righteousness, for its based entirely from without the Elect, they are not even born again, its solely based upon the Perfect Work of Christ !

Note: Christ's Righteousness became the Elects Righteousness by imputation when their sins became His by imputation !

beloved57
November 7th, 2012, 08:25 AM
What is application of Justification ?

Many today, false teachers, hath willfully mistaken Justification before God from ones sins by non imputation, and instead they were imputed to Christ, for non imputation automatically means imputation to Christ 2 Cor 5:19-21


19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Now when we come to believe by faith that our sins were laid upon Christ, its not the same time as when our sins were laid upon Him. For God before we believed, had already imputed our sins on Christ, first He did in His Eternal Purpose Rev 13:8


8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain [In God's Purpose] from the foundation of the world.

Now if Christ was slain in God's Purpose from the foundation of the world, then it was that He was slain for the sins of those sins that had been imputed to Him from the foundation of the world ! Also see 1 Pet 1:20

Secondly, in time at the Cross of Christ when the Father did forsake Him because of our sins imputed.

Now faith is that which embraces the Truth of the Gospel of ones Salvation, if indeed it is God given Faith. The word of Truth informs us of a past transaction of imputation 2 Cor 5:19-21 which faith embraces, faith looks to things already a reality in the Mind of God and the Purpose of God, of when the transaction took place, whether in the compact agreement in the everlasting covenant and or at the actual in time event at the Cross when the Father for the first time forsook His Son for sin imputed;

It was then that God hath done His act of imputing our sin to Christ; However it is not until in time, and in our own personal temporal history, by the Grace of God, do we believe after having revealed to us, this eternal transaction Ps 25:14, which at believing has been made manifest, and becomes the application of the blessing to our consciousness and brings us experimental peace, knowing that God has been made peace with us by the Blood of His Cross ! Col 1:20

And, having made peace[for us] through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

beloved57
November 8th, 2012, 12:31 AM
The matter of the Elects Justification before God, it had nothing to do with anything they did, and to say or imply otherwise is a false gospel ! Now Paul did demonstrate how the elect or those Christ died for [ the same] are Justified or declared Righteous by a comparing of Adam and Jesus Christ, that is Adam's disobedience and Christ's obedience i.e Phil 2:8; Heb 5:8 ,now lets read Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so[likewise] by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Now Paul teaches here in this verse and in this context that Adam's disobedience was the cause of the elect sinning, that very sin of Adam being charged or imputed to the Elect as they were in Union with him, and that also without any personal or actual sin of their own or their own volition or freewill, but yet in God's Reckoning the Elect became sinners !

Now the word so a adverb houtō(s) which means = in this manner, thus, so

The obedience of Christ [alone] in offering himself [Heb 10:10,14] a sacrifice [ 1 Cor 5:7] for their sins, and so by doing, giving satisfaction to God's law and Justice against their sins, in obedience to God's will and command Jn 10:17-18


17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Now it [ Christ's obedient Offering alone] became the cause of Righteousness imputed to them, as they were in Union with Christ, without any personal obedience of theirs, such as faith, repentance added to it, and by that, the Elect are made Righteous and Justified in God's Reckoning !

Now any teaching on this matter of the Elects Justification before God, that fails to adhere to this rule Paul hath demonstrated via Adam and Christ Headship, it is a false teaching ! To add an act of obedience by the person made Righteous or Justified, is a false teaching and condemned by God !

beloved57
November 9th, 2012, 04:51 PM
Experimental Justification !

Experimental Justification is by Faith, of which is the application and execution of God's Eternal Decree from Everlasting, yes even the Everlasting Covenant. It is the effect of one's Eternal Justification [That which was made in Christ, foundationed upon the Covenant made between the Father and the Son, which was Immanent in God]

Along with that was also in God's Eternal Purpose the decree to give evidence and to declare in the consciousness of the Elect, their Justification. This aspect would be performed by the Holy Spirit's Work, He being sent to Justify them in Time in the Name of the Lord 1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

And so by the Work of the Spirit God does work faith in all the Eternally Justified, so causing them to believe in Jesus, and then its evidenced to themselves that they are Justified, and this is experimental Justification by Faith Rom 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

beloved57
November 14th, 2012, 03:50 PM
All the persons that are Justified before God and His Justice solely by the death and or blood of Christ Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Rom 5:9

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Each of them as an evidence of that, shall be Justified by faith before their own consciousness Rom 5:1, and so bringeth to pass the old saying of truth, the Just [made so by Christ's obedience unto death] shall live by faith Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Now, the Justification by faith is not Justification before God, but its the fruit and effect of already having been made Righteous by the blood of Christ Rom 5:19b. Justification by faith is the fruit of one's New Birth, however Justification before God is the fruit and result of the blood of Christ and the imputation of His Righteousness, and the Non Imputation of their condemnation and sin.

Non of God's elect could have been Justified by faith, without #1 Justification before God based solely and entirely upon Christ's Blood, and #2 The New Birth, for without an spiritual birth, their is no fruit of faith that pleases God Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

beloved57
November 20th, 2012, 02:45 PM
That the Elect, those Christ died for are Justified before God before they believe, this is True in that they are redeemed before they believe, and they are redeemed solely by the Blood of Christ.

Rev 5:9

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

1 Pet 1:18-19

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Eph 1:7

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Col 1:14

In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Heb 9:12

Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Now scripture says this in Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Those Christ died for were redeemed from the curse of the law, How ? By Being made a Curse for them, by His Death on the Tree 1 Pet 2:24a

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree,

Nothing the redeemed did redeemed them, but only what Christ did !

Now Paul says here Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Thats saying that they were Justified by His Death because it Redeemed them from the Curse of the Law !

They were Justified by Redemption !

In fact, the Gospel Call goes out to only those that have been Redeemed Notice Isa 44:22

I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions,or forgiveness and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

In other words, their subjective returning to Him, Or Reconciliation Subjectively is premised on already having been redeemed and already having been forgiven of their Transgressions !

beloved57
November 24th, 2012, 07:10 PM
In order to ever be Justified by Faith in time, there must have been a Pre existing Union with Christ before Faith in order to faith, in fact this Union needed to exist with Christ ever before He could die for our sins: For the scripture doeth indicate that those Justified by Christ's Righteousness and Obedience, twas due to the fact that they had a Oneness with Him as His Body, a legal Oneness and a Mystical Oneness, and by this Mystical Union or Oneness, all for whom He died were members of His Body of which He is the Saviour of Eph 5:23,30

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body.

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Also they were members of His Flesh and Blood [Mystically] Heb 2:14

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

This in that it was them that He specifically Identified with in Flesh and Blood !

They are the Body of Christ 1 Cor 12:12

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

And that [His Body] even before they become believers, which is indicated that He is the Saviour of The Body Eph 5:23 and also here Col 1:24

24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

Paul here even though writing believers in Colosse at the time, did remind them of His present afflictions he must endure, for the Gospel's Sake in reaching with the Gospel the unconverted portion of Christ's Body, that is the Church; for this is very similar to his words to Timothy 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's or His Body's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

For it is only in view of this Union Christ had with His Mystical Body that their sins could legally be charged to Him, simply because they are the sins of His Body, and so God is Just in not imputing the Body's sins unto them 2 Cor 5:19, because He hath charged them to their Head! And also the Head's Righteousness is also freely imputed to His Body. Now as His Mystical Body, we are crucified with Him Gal 2:20, are dead with Him Rom 6:8 are risen with Him Eph 2:6, and we are Newly Created in Him Eph 2:10; However none of this can be our reality and experience except it be through that Eternal Mystical Union we had in Christ before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us[His Body the Church] in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

beloved57
December 5th, 2012, 05:57 PM
Any and everyone Christ died for [which was not for all without exception] must be by God Justified ! Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Now this is True because Christ by His Redemptive Blood has paid for their sins, and by this has fulfilled God's Law and Justice and Holy demands upon them. For in His Death of the Cross, it is written this Col 2:14

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Now listen, all legal guilt by our law breaking and sin has been blotted out of the record books as these here were not Rev 20:12

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

All that could ever be written against them for their guilt and condemnation and to occasion God's Wrath, was taken out of the Way, having been nailed to the Cross of Christ; and so because God is just, He must justify freely [free from sin], all for whom Christ died, and that solely upon the basis of redemption in His Blood, and not for their faith or works or repentance !

beloved57
December 6th, 2012, 08:34 PM
Lk 1:77

To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Remission of sin, which is also forgiveness of sins, is an aspect of Justification, and remission of sin is not granted upon ones believing or act of faith or act of repentance, but it is accomplished for all whom Christ died, based upon His Blood Satisfaction, which is testified to by the Holy Ghost in Two Places Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

And Heb 10:14-18

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Now understand this, the perfection spoken of in Vs 14, it does include the forgiveness of all our sins, which also means Justification from all things as Per Acts 13:39


39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

And the word for ever back in Heb 10:14, doeth ensure Justification or forgiveness or remission of all sin the sin of us, past, present and future; and this was all accomplished by the single offering of Christ !

beloved57
December 7th, 2012, 03:07 PM
Now this remission of sin or Justification from all things is witnessed to by the Holy Ghost, and it shows from he time that Christ died on the Cross, when He confirmed the New Covenant for Many Dan 9:24,27

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins[Remission of sins], and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament [covenant], which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Now that God had Justified or freed from sin all for whom Christ died Rom 6:7, and that He will in no wise remember them any more Heb 8:12; 10:17

And this Remission / Justification from sin had no assistance or cooperation fro those Covenant Beneficiaries, but solely upon the Gift of Christ's Sacrifice !

beloved57
December 11th, 2012, 07:52 PM
What Religionists do not know or believe about Justification, that it is a legal Judicial act by the Sovereign Grace of God, for and of those Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world. A legal declaring of them being acquitted from all legal guilt and transgressions of God's Law, and the deserved condemnation, this solely premised upon the vicarious Death of Christ, whereby all their law breaking guilt and condemnation was sovereignly charged to Christ, or imputed to Him, hence leaving them fully discharged, For all of God's law demands against them were fully satisfied, declaring also to them a perfect righteousness Heb 10:14, they have been cleared of all sin, and given a Righteousness based solely on the Merits of Christ Righteousness to the Law,as He [for them] kept it perfectly, in word, thought and deed, while living upon this Earth as a Man !

beloved57
December 12th, 2012, 05:57 PM
All for whom Christ died are Justified before God through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus ! Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

This free Justification had by His Grace nothing to do with anything the Justified ones did !

beloved57
December 13th, 2012, 09:41 AM
One must be in a Justified stated before the Gospel is sent to them, and a saved state before they can believe it ! Otherwise they are in a condemned state and cannot believe Jn 3:18

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because[or proof being] he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Everyone therefore that does believe, is Justified from all things Acts 13:39

39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

In other words, everyone believing is already Justified or not condemned, for that is what believing gives evidence of !

Justification is first of all a remission of sins or the forgiveness of sins, a discharge of guilt procured solely by the death or blood of Christ for all whom He died Matt 26:28.

Now also with this discharge is the entitlement to life and eternal Glory, both of these aspects of Justification are effected solely by the Death of Christ, the Testator of the Covenant Matt 26:28 and Heb 9:15-17

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

beloved57
December 18th, 2012, 10:46 PM
Many of the enemies of the Gospel of God's Grace Acts 20:24

24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

They reject that True believers were Justified by Grace apart from their obedience of faith, citing erroneously as a proof text Rom 5:1; However what they willfully fail to realize and understand is that by citing one verse on what Paul wrote on Justification does not negate or make void what He wrote about it in another place, which was those Justified were Justified by Grace Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

These causes of Justification had nothing to do with anyone's Faith except Jesus Christ's !

beloved57
December 19th, 2012, 05:24 AM
This Justification by Grace is solely on the exclusive right of God, that is it is done with respect to the Justified ones freely, without cause in and from them, undeservedly, and graciously, nothing in us or done by us good or bad. This brings us to the next consideration of being Justified by Grace, which is that Grace given us in Christ Jesus before the World Began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Now how does one become to be in Christ Jesus before the World Began in the First Place ? Well it was not because of something or anything they did or did not do, but God God's gracious choice of them Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

God chose for Himself those whom were chosen in the Beloved, which is also called the Election of Grace Rom 11:5

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Hence : "according to the election of Grace" here in Rom 11:5 is the same as "according as He hath chosen us in Him" in Eph 1:4

And to all chosen, Grace was given and by this Grace they were Justified Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

This is also Justification before the World began by Grace since it was given us at that time 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

This scripture alone validates as an Gospel of God's Grace truth Acts 20:24 Justification by Grace before the World began !

beloved57
December 19th, 2012, 08:21 AM
In Light of these things, Justification by Grace given us in Christ Jesus before the World began 2 Tim 1:9, One may therefore ask the question, why the need to be Justified by Grace before the World began, when no sin had been yet committed, nor had entered into the World to be Justified from ?

The answer is quite simple, this World from the jump was Created for an Redemptive Purpose in the Eternal Purpose of Christ Eph 3:9-11

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Col 1:14-18

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Vs 14 tells why !

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

And so the Elect Chosen in Christ before the foundation, and given Grace in Him at that same date, were Pre Justified from the sin and condemnation they would incur from #1 Adam their Natural Head from Natural Creation, and #2 from the sins against God's law they personally would multiply in their own selves, being born sinners. Paul alludes to this spiritual Truth here Rom 5:15-16

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

This free gift of Grace here in Vs 15 is the same free gift of Grace given them in Christ Jesus before the World began, and so this Grace cancels out their first trespass in Adam and their many trespasses that they shall accumulate in their own physical lives in the flesh !

beloved57
December 19th, 2012, 10:32 AM
Some may still argue, then why the Death of Christ ? Answer, because the Grace given them before the world began, was founded upon a Covenant agreement between the Father and the Son, that their sin, He [The Son] would come into the World and shed His Blood for their sin, and so its for His Blood of the Everlasting Covenant, and so that from that date, they were Justified by His Grace through the Redemption [in due time] that is in Christ Jesus, through faith in His Blood, not merely the Justified one's faith, but more importantly, God's Faith in His Son's Blood. What meaneth this statement ? Why would God have Faith in His Son's Blood ? Because it meant that the Father was well pleased and satisfied with the Covenant agreement, whereby in the fulness of time,His Son would become incarnate and shed His Blood for the sins of the Sheep, God had Faith in His own prearranged plan and Covenant agreement, not to overlook that He had Faith in His own Son's Faithfulness to fulfill His Covenant Engagement to shed His Blood, so God was able to deal mercifully even with the elect that sinned before the Cross , looking forward to His Justice against them also to be satisfied by His Son's Blood. This means that all the believers from OT and NT times were given Justification by Grace before the world began, based upon the redemption that is in Christ Jesus !

beloved57
December 27th, 2012, 07:30 AM
Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for [because of] our offences, and was raised again for [because of] our justification.

And since Christ's Resurrection was for or because of our Justification [believers] as a result of Him dying because of our sins , it also means that His Resurrection declares all for whom He died for their offenses Righteous; So it is Two things that the Resurrection of Christ declares

#1 That all for whom Christ died have been acquitted before God's Law and Justice of all their offenses, and # 2 that they stand before God's Law declared Righteous. This we know from the meaning of the word Justification in the verse, its the greek word dikaiōsis and means:


the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him

2) abjuring to be righteous, justification


Yes, this is what the Resurrection of Christ declares for all whom offences He was delivered !

And this is True of them all before they become Believers, but is why they must become believers, nevertheless it is True while they themselves, prior to New Birth and Conversion, are enemies and in Unbelief, its by the Grace of God !

beloved57
January 17th, 2013, 08:47 AM
Rom 3:26

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


Now in the original this verse reads in stead of " him which believeth in Jesus" it reads " him that is of the faith of Jesus"

The DRB bible translates it:

Through the forbearance of God, for the shewing of his justice in this time; that he himself may be just, and the justifier of him, who is of the faith of Jesus Christ.



Now God is Just and the Justifier of him that believeth in Jesus ! And why is that ?

This is why ! Because God had reckoned them one [In Union] and because of that He imputed their sins and guilt of law breaking, upon Him.

Now if we did not have a Union with Him when He was upon the Tree, God could not have been Just or pleased to lay upon Him the iniquity of us all Isa 53:6.For that would have been like punishing the innocent for the crimes of the guilty in our jurisprudence.

It would be like knowingly sending a innocent man to the gallows for murders of one who is yet guilty of the crimes. Yet because God viewed Christ and His Body [ the guilty church] as one as in the One Head and it's members, now then is the Justice of God manifest.

God is Just, even though Christ Himself personally never did any wrong, but yet those united to Him in a Legal bond a binding union did do the wrong. When Christ died for His People, He had already became bone and bone and flesh of flesh

Eph 5:29-30

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

So, He is Legally the Saviour of His Body Eph 5:23

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body.

Now if Christ died for us without there being a Union with us, there is no Justice for us in His Death, and no need for Faith in His Blood ! Neither could our guilt and condemnation against God's Law be removed before His law and Justice !

beloved57
February 4th, 2013, 06:23 PM
1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

That those Jesus died for were Justified by His Death alone, meaning their Justification before God, its taught in this very verse, in that by His Blood alone they were Justified Rom 5:9 in the name of the Lord !

When something is done in the name of the Lord, He receives all the Glory and Credit for doing it. This Justification had nothing to do with what the one being Justified did. No, not their believing or repenting, but it had only to do with what Jesus Christ accomplished on their behalf, in His Name, His Person and Work,and therefore His Resurrection does testify that all for whom He bare their sins, that in Him, in His Name [Person] they are declared Justified Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and[He] was raised again for our justification

Hence Justified in the Name of the Lord !

beloved57
February 9th, 2013, 06:25 PM
Those in modern day false religion do deny that there is a Justification of those Christ died for apart from their God given Faith, of which the scripture does teach. One of the teachings of scripture to a declarative Justification before God is that of non imputation of sin. If God does not charge a people with sin, then He by that Justifieth them Per Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

The reason for the inquiry who shall lay any charges against God's Elect is to bring notice to the fact that God has not ! Why ? Because of non imputation of sin. Lets look at Rom 4:8

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

This applies to everyone Christ died for, because He was imputed with their sins, and so they are not ! Because of that, they acquitted from all sin, by non imputation.

This blessed man or men are Justified / Blessed because God will not count their sins against them in a way of condemnation now or in the Judgment. This also applies to a whole World of Blessed men and women 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

John Gill comment:


not imputing their trespasses. This was what he resolved upon from all eternity, that inasmuch as Christ was become the surety and substitute of his people, he would not impute their sins to them, or look for satisfaction for them from them; but would reckon and place them to the account of their surety, and expect satisfaction from him; and accordingly he did, and accordingly he had it. And this will, not to impute sin to his people, or not to punish for it, which existed in God from everlasting, is no other than a justification of them; for to whom the Lord does not impute sin, he imputes righteousness, and such are properly justified.

And so the World of 2 Cor 5:19 because of non imputation of sin is Justified by God Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Note: Those Persons reconciled to God by the Death of His Son, even while they are being enemies or unbelievers, God does not count their sins against them while they are being enemies 2 Cor 5:19 !

beloved57
February 9th, 2013, 08:22 PM
Secondly, there is a Declarative Justification before God, apart from one's God given Faith, not only by Non Imputation of their sins, but also by Imputation of their sins to Christ Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

That word laid means to cause to fall upon Him,to meet upon Him or to strike the mark !

Thats why the World Christ died for did not have its sins imputed to it 2 Cor 5:19; Rom 4:8 because their sins, trespasses, offense's, iniquities were caused to meet on Christ.

God the Father determined before the foundation of the World, not to charge, impute their sins and condemnation to them, but to lay them on Christ instead.

So the reason is once again answered as to why God did not charge His Elect Rom 8:33 and look at Rom 8:34a

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Because it was for Christ to die for their sins instead. He died for them because He was charged with them instead of them, so He bare their sins Isa 53:11-12

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

The word bare in Vs 11 is the hebrew word cabal

to bear, bear a load, drag oneself along

a) (Qal) to bear (a load)

b) (Pual) laden (participle)

c) (Hithpael) to make oneself a burden, drag oneself along

He received the penalties that the ones He died for deserved !

But notice the results of baring their sins, He made them to be accounted Righteous or He Justified many, and this Justification is based solely upon His baring their sins that were imputed to Him !

ESV Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities.

So God declares Righteous or Justified those whom sins were imputed to Christ for Him to bare in their stead !

beloved57
February 9th, 2013, 10:17 PM
And thirdly, We know that His Death alone Justified them apart from their God given Faith because of the declaration of the resurrection, for since He died not for His own sins and offenses, but as the Representative of those He died for, He rose as that same Representative, and as He was declared acquitted or Justified for His Faithfulness unto death, His death not being for Himself, but for those he died in the stead of, then it was they which were discharged, acquitted and Justified, as declared by His Resurrection. Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

YLT 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised up [B]because of our being declared righteous.


This Justification of those Christ died for, had nothing to do with them believing, repenting, or doing anything; In fact its True of them even while they are being enemies in unbelief ! To deny this, is to deny the Gospel of Grace, Salvation by Grace !

beloved57
February 10th, 2013, 04:40 AM
Now God given Faith, given in the New Birth, for Faith that Pleases God is not found in the natural man, to it is revealed their declared Justification by the Gospel sent to them Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God[Our Justification] revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The word Righteousness and the Word Just are basically the same word in the original both derived from the word dikaios:

righteous, observing divine laws

a) in a wide sense, upright, righteous, virtuous, keeping the commands of God

1) of those who seem to themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves in their virtues, whether real or imagined

2) innocent, faultless, guiltless

3) used of him whose way of thinking, feeling, and acting is wholly conformed to the will of God, and who therefore needs no rectification in the heart or life

a) only Christ truly

4) approved of or acceptable of God

b) in a narrower sense, rendering to each his due and that in a judicial sense, passing just judgment on others, whether expressed in words or shown by the manner of dealing with them

The Knowledge of their Righteousness / Justification before God is revealed to them by the Gospel, and that this was an Matter of fact outside of themselves, and hence they now believe the Truth of it which is the Gospel of their Salvation Eph 1:13. The Gospel in the matter of Salvation is not sent to people to put them in a position to perform a duty or an act to get saved, but its to reveal or make known the Good News of what Christ has accomplished and Established on ones behalf; Because Christ was delivered up unto Death and Divine Justice in their stead and for their transgressions, and when the Law released Him, it was a notification of their discharge; and the Spirit enlightens all those Christ died for of their Justification by Christ's Righteousness charged to them, and so it comes to past that the Just shall live by Faith. The Spirit takes of Christ's [ What He accomplished via His Death / Blood for them]and shows it to them or reveals it to them in or by the Gospel; and it is then God given Faith receives, embraces, appropriates this REVELATION as their Justification and Righteousness before God, and now before their own purged conscience. Heb 9:14

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

beloved57
February 10th, 2013, 03:36 PM
Acts 13:39

And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

The Nature of the Justification that Christ gives to all for whom He died, all the Elect of God or His Body the Church, its Justification from all things which means:

They are Justified from their Transgression in Adam their Natural Head Rom 5:12

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

They are Justified from all actual Transgressions they begin t commit from the womb, before conversion and also after conversion.

They are Justified from all their present impurities in the flesh, Yes they are Justified in the court of God's Justice and Righteousness against anything anyone can bring against them even as a legitimate charge !


Illustrated by Joshua the High Priest who had on filthy garments ! Zech 3:1-4

And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.

4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

All for whom Christ died, the Israel of God, He has taken away their Iniquities from before the Justice of God !

beloved57
March 22nd, 2013, 08:22 AM
All for whom Christ died, are by His Death/Blood Alone, Justified before God from all sin, this can be concluded also by Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

What sins ? These sins that were charged to Him 1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Now the sins of all for whom He died, He hath purged them away. That word purged means:

a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

Now actually, by Imputation, the Guilt of the sins of those Christ died for, is gone, done away with by the Offering of Christ.

All for whom He died therefore are Justified from all guilt of their sins !

It has been purged out of the sight of God and His Law, hence they are Justified, and none of these can ever die in their sins Jn 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

This also means that those Christ has died for and purged away their guilt before God, will not always remain Unbelievers, for only those whom Christ did not die for shall continue in Unbelief and consequently die in their sins or will be found in them at His Coming !

This purging of their sins was done by Himself, not by anything they for whom He died for did or done !

beloved57
March 27th, 2013, 06:03 AM
Though it is hotly denied by religionists, all those Christ died for are Justified before God solely on Christ's Death Merits, while they in and of themselves are sinners, ungodly, and enemies in their minds towards Him. They are while enemies forgiven of all Transgressions against God's Law, free from any curse of the law Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law[HOW], being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

That's how they are redeemed from the curse of the Law, not by believing, not by repenting, not by anything they did at all, but by Him being made a curse for them, meaning His Death !

So through His Death, they are , even while ungodly in themselves, Justified before God's law as through they never sinned. This Justification is made evident by Christ's Resurrection from the dead Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences[transgressions, iniquities], and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

All this while they in themselves are being Ungodly ! The Natural Man cannot comprehend this Grace !

beloved57
March 29th, 2013, 02:52 PM
Justified by His Blood ! Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood[Knowing it by Faith], we shall be saved from wrath through him.

This is one verse the adversaries of Truth cannot deny, even though they do, which is that those Christ died for are Justified by His Blood or by His Death, and that while they have no faith. For Christ's Blood that Justified them was shed for them before they had being in themselves, but being the foreknown of God; And what was His Blood shed for or because of ? Why for their sins 1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

And He died for their sins before they had a actual being, so they were Justified before God from all their sins before they had an actual being, and so Justified by His Blood. It does not matter how this Truth is opposed, for the Resurrection of Christ from the dead, after dying for their sins, evidences or confirmed their Justification before God , by His Blood or Death Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

YLT who was delivered up because of our offences, and was raised up because of our being declared righteous.

That's an excellent Translation and agrees with OT scripture Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

ESV Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities.

This is Justification by His Blood Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Understand this, one for whom Christ died for in 33 ad, was Justified by His Blood then, though they may not have yet been given Faith to know it or realize it until 1958, when they believed. Their act of believing did not change what was already done and evidenced by Christ's Resurrection, their Justification by the Blood in 33 ad, and to say otherwise is to lie against the Truth, to bear false witness.

beloved57
April 5th, 2013, 09:15 AM
That one or those whom Christ died, that by His Death alone [apart from any act of the one died for] they are declared Justified before God before they believe, or even before they physically exist, this is true because by His Blood alone they were Redeemed, and through this very Redemption they were freely Justified . Eph 1:7

7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Rom 3:24-25

24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,

That word freely in Vs 24 is the greek word dōrean and means:

freely, undeservedly

The word is translated without cause here Jn 15:25

But [this cometh to pass], that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

Also the word undeserved gives the connotation that instead of deserving, we actually were in a state that deserved God's displeasure and wrath at the time He declared us Justified, we were blamable and unbefitting, reprehensible.

That's why Paul says that He Justifieth the Ungodly Rom 4:5

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

Now Faith in His Blood is a by product or outcome of Redemption through His Blood and the Faith is the means by which God reveals the Justification to the redeemed one !

beloved57
April 6th, 2013, 07:17 PM
Rom 4:8

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

All those whom God does not Charge with sin or impute with sin , are Justified from sin, freed from sin because their sins were charged to Christ, and Paul writes in Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

So Non Imputation of sin, non Charge of it equals Justification, or God Justifieth. The word Justifieth above is the greek word dikaioō:

to render righteous or such he ought to be

2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

So, God's non imputation or not charging of one is also His Declaring them Righteous or Just !

David writes Ps 32:2

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

The Hebrew word for imputeth is chashab :

to think, plan, esteem, calculate, invent, make a judgment, imagine, count

a) (Qal)

1) to think, account

2) to plan, devise, mean

3) to charge, impute, reckon

4) to esteem, value, regard


2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord chargeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile. That means he is Righteous, to have no guile in his spirit speaks of the new birth !

Now Paul under New Covenant Teaching quotes David here Rom 4:7-8, and so this describes a Justified man, because by non imputation also equates to forgiveness of sins, yes all their lawless deeds, which is Justification.

With forgiveness comes vindication:

to clear, as from an accusation, imputation, suspicion, or the like

to afford justification for; justify

Now none of this is contingent upon anything the forgiven ones has done or believed.

You see forgiveness of sins is no different from Justification, its just another aspect or feature of it; One is not forgiven by the Blood without being at the same time Justified by it or vice versa, and non imputation of sins equals forgiveness of it, and that's why God does not charge those with it for whom Christ died because He was charged their iniquities and as the Prophet say: Isa 53:5

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

beloved57
April 26th, 2013, 04:30 PM
Justification and Sanctification !

Both these Blessings are Joined together, for Justification gives purpose and cause for Sanctification [ A work of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13]; that is all whom God declares righteous because of the one obedience of Christ for the many Rom 5:19, that is to say by His Death or Blood, they must also be made experientially Righteous by New Birth or Sanctification of the Spirit. All whom Christ's obedience declares righteous Isa 53:11

Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see[a] and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
[B]make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities. ESV

They all must be by the Spirit Sanctified, which Jesus meant by His words here Jn 17:17-20

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

The Spirit's Work of 2 Thess 2:13 is the answer to this request !

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That request in Vs 17 was not for just the disciples !

Sanctification of the Spirit is based upon what Christ did Vs 19 Sanctified Himself by means of Death !

That Sanctification follows Justification is what Paul also meant here Col 1:12-14

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

In other words, since we have redemption through His Blood, Justification, He makes us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in Light, thats experiential Sanctification by the Spirit ! Justification makes it right for us to be brought into a righteous state !

beloved57
May 30th, 2013, 11:43 PM
Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

1 Tim 3:16

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Christ's Resurrection was an evidence of the vindication of all those He died for, For Paul writes above in 1 Tim 3:16, that He [Christ] was vindicated or justified in the Spirit.

It was for the imputed offences of all that He died for. For when He died, He had been by God's Law and Justice, charged with all the crimes and iniquities of them He died for, The Lord Laid them on Him Isa 53:6

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

And this He had agreed to in the engagements of the Everlasting Covenant, and so He was condemned for them, and because of them, and not for Himself.He was their Head and Surety and Representative, and He suffered the condemnation of death on their account, and when He arose, He was Justified in the Spirit and by the Spirit, Vindicated from all the crimes, sins and offenses charged to Him, placed on His Account n God's lethal Justice,and so all those He died for were also Justified in Him as their Living, Risen Head, for remember He rose as the Shepherd or Head of the Sheep Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

The word shepherd is the greek word poimēn and means:

a herdsman, esp. a shepherd

a) in the parable, he to whose care and control others have committed themselves, and whose precepts they follow

2) metaph.

a) the presiding officer, manager, director, of any assembly: so of Christ the Head of the church

1) of the overseers of the Christian assemblies

2) of kings and princes

Yes, as risen Shepherd, He was the Risen Head of the Church, His Body, so if the Head is Raised in Vindication of the sins of His Body, then the body members are Vindicated as well, or the Sheep !

Hence they were crucified with Him, so they arose with Him, and were Justified together with Him, and so should be the Testimony of His Gospel Rom 4:25.

There is no Preaching the Gospel, The death, burial, and resurrection of Christ without highlighting at some time the Justification of those whose offenses He was delivered because of, for if we shun this, deny this, we become false witnesses of the Gospel. If Christ had not risen, the verdict would have n, those He died for are yet in their sins, and condemned by God for them, His Law and Justice unsatisfied !

beloved57
June 13th, 2013, 06:50 AM
Before anyone Christ died for believes , or comes to Faith, they are Justified before God for Two reasons. First because of non imputation of sin, no charges by God has been imputed to them. 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation

The AMP 19 It was God [personally present] in Christ, reconciling and restoring the world to favor with Himself, not counting up and holding against [men] their trespasses [but cancelling them], and committing to us the message of reconciliation (of the restoration to favor).

The EXB 19 [L For] God was in Christ, ·making peace between the world and [reconciling the world to] himself. In Christ, God did not ·hold the world guilty of its sins [L count their trespasses against them]. And he ·gave [committed/entrusted to] us this message of ·peace [reconciliation].

This World Paul points out, God did not hold it guilty of its sins. That's Non Imputation and its Justification.

Also Rom 4:8

Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. Well, this applies to that World in 2 Cor 5:19, its a Blessed World because God will not charge or impute its sins unto them of that World. That's Justification.

NIVUK Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.’

For the sins of that world in 2 Cor 5:19 and the persons of Rom 4:8 those sins of theirs was not charged to them because they were laid to Christ's Charge, and they were set free or Justified from them.

Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

There is no clearer verse that indicates that those whom God does not charge, impute with Sin is His Justifying of them. And none whom Christ died for are charged with their sins by God !

God the Law giver, does not hold them accountable for their sins even though they are in themselves very sinful, nevertheless He Justifies them. But why ? The second phrase of Vs 34 informs why Vs 34

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

That's right, because of the death of Christ. In order for Christ to die, sins must be charged to Him to die for 1 Cor 15:3, and the sins of those charged to Him to die for, were not charged to the ones that He died for, and that is God Justifying them, and condemning Him in their stead. Paul writes Rom 8:3

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

That is God condemned Christ for the sins of those that were laid to His Body 1 Pet 2:24

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Hence, He in Divine Justice purposed to condemn them in Christ, He Justified them. This was before they believed.

beloved57
June 13th, 2013, 07:43 AM
The First reason for Justification before God before believing has been given, because of non imputation of sin.

Now the Second Reason is because of Imputation of Christ's Righteousness. Rom 4:6-7

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

All for whom Christ died, by His Death for them alone, it makes them Righteous.

This is seen the Prophecy of Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

AMP 11 He shall see [the fruit] of the travail of His soul and be satisfied; by His knowledge of Himself [which He possesses and imparts to others] shall My righteous One,[B] My Servant, justify many and make many righteous (upright and in right standing with God), for He shall bear their iniquities and their guilt [with the consequences, says the Lord].

ESV Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous,
and he shall bear their iniquities.


Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by [U]the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

AMP 19 For just as by one man’s disobedience (failing to hear, heedlessness, and carelessness) the many were constituted sinners, so by one Man’s obedience the many will be constituted righteous (made acceptable to God, brought into right standing with Him).

That's Justification. All this was accounted before they believed, had nothing to do with their personal belief, in fact, it was true while they were enemies, and it is the reason why they do believe after God reveals it to them by the Gospel of their Salvation, they are then persuaded of its fact or reality.

beloved57
June 16th, 2013, 04:03 AM
Rom 6:7

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

The word freed here is the greek word dikaioō:

to render righteous or such he ought to be

2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

Its also translated 37 times as the word justify.

So those who died in Christ and be dead are justified from all sin.

Paul says of those Christ died for 2 Cor 5:14

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

That's because of their union with Christ when He died for them, then by that Union [Legal Union and Representative Union] they all died when He died and became freed or Justified from sin.

This also proves from scripture that those Christ died for, are by His Death alone, justified from sin, so Justified before God.

They do not die or be dead because of their Faith or Believing, nothing they do, but solely based upon their Legal Union with Christ when He died.

beloved57
June 23rd, 2013, 03:05 PM
Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

That the Obedience of Christ alone, His Righteousness here consist in both His Active and Passive Obedience, and for all whom He represented when He died, the sentence of Justification was passed, Justification of Life. It came upon them, apart from their faith, their repentance, or anything they did.

The word Justification is the greek word dikaiósis:


acquittal, justifying, justification, a process of absolution.

Absolution means:

a freeing from blame or guilt; release from consequences, obligations, or penalties.

Just as by adam's one act or offence, it resulted in condemnation of all men he represented, that was apart from their own act of disobedience personally, so it is with Christ's One act of Righteousness results in Justification of Life for all He represented apart from their own acts of obedience.

This scripture teaches Justification for all whom Christ died before their obedience of Faith.

beloved57
July 4th, 2013, 10:21 AM
Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

This is a truth that the natural mind of man cannot receive as Per 1 Cor 2:14, that those Christ died for are by His Blood, Justified while being ungodly, as their Father Abraham was.

Yes, as was Abraham, they while in a state of nature, and being ungodly, and being enemies in their minds, they are also at the same time in a state of Justification.

Yes being Justified solely by His Grace by the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus their Surety Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

They are Justified by Grace while they are in sin and corruption; this is because even then Christ has been made unto them by God 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

30 But it is from Him that you have your life in Christ Jesus, Whom God made our Wisdom from God, [revealed to us a knowledge of the divine plan of salvation previously hidden, manifesting itself as] our Righteousness [thus making us upright and putting us in right standing with God], and our Consecration [making us pure and holy], and our Redemption [providing our ransom from eternal penalty for sin].


That Redemption spoken of in Rom 3:24 that is the basis of Justification by Grace. And that Righteousness that also Justifies them.

For God imputes Righteousness on all for whom Christ was made sin for 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

That word made here is the same verb Paul uses in 1 Cor 1:30 the word gínomai So He was made unto them Righteousness even while they are in a ungodly state.

This establishes the fact of the truth that those He died for or was made sin for are Justified or Righteous before Faith or believing by them.

For God to be Just He could only Justify them that are ungodly in themselves as He views them Righteous in and by Christ because of Ex 23:7

Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.

Hence, His Justification of the Ungodly is based upon Imputed Righteousness not their own.

beloved57
July 4th, 2013, 11:13 AM
There has been sufficient scripture set forth to prove the premise of Justification before God for those Christ died before Faith or Believing Rom 3:24 as stated earlier and Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

Here its too plain that Christ's Resurrection gives evidence of the Justification of those whose sins He was delivered for, some of them not yet even born into the world as sinners, but nevertheless, if Christ was delivered for their offences, His Resurrection declares their Justification !

Also Rom 5:9; Titus 3:7. But now for those of us who deny it and insist that faith or believing is of necessity before one Christ died for is Justified before Him from all sin and condemnation, then We are guilty of thinking that Christ's Blood He shed, alone did not have sufficient merit with God to Justify them. That Christ's Blood needed the added assistance of man's act of faith or believing before God Justified them. So his faith gave the blood of Christ added Value and incentive for God to Justify them, that did Christ's Blood alone:

This treats the Blood of Christ with contempt, for it means that except mans faith is acted, the blood accomplished nothing as to God Justifying a sinner Christ died for.

Again Rom 4:5 makes it clear, the object of the believers Faith is on,He that is Justifying the ungodly, and if they are being ungodly, they were being unbelievers and even enemies, and God who is Justifying them on the basis of Christ's Blood, as such is justifying them as ungodly and unbelievers, hence He is Justifying them before personal Faith, which Faith evidences their Justification by Christ; So when they do believe, they are believing that they were or had already been Justified by Christ's Blood when or while they were ungodly, for that's what they believe and was persuaded of through the Gospel !

beloved57
July 4th, 2013, 09:47 PM
What is Justification by Faith ?

Justification by Faith is that conscious Justification, a Spiritual Knowledge of it,now in the sight of God. This Knowledge is conveyed to the Spiritually renewed mind by the Gospel as it reveals to their God Given Faith the Righteousness of God that has been Imputed to them Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

God gives His People knowledge of Salvation [ Justification, Forgiveness, Redemption] Lk 1:77

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

And that's where Justification by Faith commences, when that Knowledge is Given of our Salvation. See Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

The Spirit then enlightens our renewed understanding as we see Christ has given full satisfaction for our sins, having been made sin for us or Christ die for our sins 1 Cor 15:3

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

That Christ died for our sins, is the same as " being made sin for us "

beloved57
July 9th, 2013, 05:08 PM
When does those Christ died for have remission of sins before God's Law and Justice ? Yes its before they believe or have Faith. Remission of sins is secured for all whom Christ died by the Blood of Christ, and that alone. Matt 26:28

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Christ's blood shed gives the many " remission of sins' !

Heb 9:22

And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

That word remission also is translated forgiveness . Its the greek word aphesis and means:

release from bondage or imprisonment

2) forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty

Also deliverance and liberty.

The Justification aspect of it is remission of the penalty of ones sins.

Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

They had remission or forgiveness of sins through His Blood and according to the Riches Grace. This had nothing to do with what they did.

Now forgiveness = Acquittal = Vindication= Justification !

This forgiveness is letting the subject go from the guilt of their sins as though the had not committed anything.

Now when Jesus rose from the dead for those He died for it was said to be because of their Justification Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Now the word for Justification is the greek word dikaiōsis:

the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him

That's the Forgiveness aspect of Justification, those Christ died for and because of His Blood,has freed them from Guilt Legally before God, and that's their Justification before God, apart from anything they said or did or even knew about in their dead state.

One Gospel writer wrote by the name of John Johnson:


Remission of Sins: Remission of Sins is to be considered judicially; as it is a legal acquittance in the court of God’s justice; or the judicial sentence, whereby the sinner is pronounced righteous, his person justified, his sins remitted, and himself acquitted from all indictment, charge, guilt or condemnation in the sight of God a consequence of the full atonement, and ample satisfaction made by the blood of Christ.

Hence because of this Remission of sins should be preached in His Name ! Lk 24:47

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

He has already accomplished the Remission of their sins or their Justification, and its to be preached to them in the power of the Holy Spirit.

Now to deny this Truth is to deny the Blood of Christ and its accomplishment on behalf of the Many Matt 26:28 !

beloved57
July 9th, 2013, 09:57 PM
All for whom Christ died, they have been forgiven of all sins, none are even imputed to them by God. 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

This[Non Imputation] is joined with forgiveness Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.2 Cor 5:19

Since this is True, they are free from the penalty of sin which is death.For death is the wages for sin imputed or charged. Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

But if God does not impute sin Rom 4:8 upon a person or persons, then they are released from that penalty of death. Where no penalty of sin death exists, life must be granted, hence Justification of Life Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

All men whom Christ died for, released them from penalty of Death, do have Eternal Life charged to them. Jn 10:27-28

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

That word give as in give eternal life, it is the greek word didōmi which means to:

to give

2) to give something to someone

a) of one's own accord to give one something, to his advantage

1) to bestow a gift

Remember Eternal Life is a Gift given through Jesus Christ Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The Gift is bestowed or given because through Jesus Christ death, they are forgiven of all sins, none can be imputed to them Rom 4:8

So Eternal Life is bestowed or given. The word bestowed means to impart . This Gift of Eternal Life is given or bestowed or imparted by New Birth from out of the dead Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

That word quickened means :

to make one alive together,to produce alive, begat or bear living young

2) to cause to live, make alive, give life

And that Life given in quickening is Eternal Life from Jesus Christ ! That's because of Justification of life and Remission of sins through His Blood alone !

beloved57
July 16th, 2013, 02:51 PM
Why are all for whom Christ died Justified before God prior to their believing the Gospel ? Yes, Justified solely upon the merits of Christ death alone ! One of the reasons is because of the forgiveness of sins. All for whom He died are forgiven of their sins, purged away they have been.

Ps 65:3

Iniquities prevail against me: as for our transgressions, thou shalt purge them away.

Ps 79:9

Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of thy name: and deliver us, and purge away our sins, for thy name's sake.

Christ is the answer to this Great Blessing of Salvation Heb 1:3

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

You see that ? He Himself purged our sins, and afterward sat down on the Right Hand of God. This applies to everyone Christ died for, without them doing or believing a thing.

Now this word purged in Heb 1:3 is the greek word katharismos:


cleansing, purifying, purification, literal, ceremonial, or moral; met: expiation.

a cleansing, purification, a ritual purgation or washing

a) of the washing of the Jews before and after their meals

b) of levitical purification of women after childbirth

c) a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

In the Heb 1:3 verse it means c) a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

So this purging or purification made by Christ through His Blood is purged from the guilt and the penalty of our sins if He died for us.

Yes, Christ's Blood alone discharged us from Guilt and the Penalty of Sin.

In case we did not know, Salvation is freedom from the guilt of sin, at least an aspect of it. Our English word Salvation means:


the act of saving or protecting from harm, risk, loss, destruction, etc.

2.
the state of being saved or protected from harm, risk, etc.

3.
a source, cause, or means of being saved or protected from harm, risk, etc.

4.
Theology . deliverance from the power and penalty of sin; redemption.

And everyone Christ died for are delivered from the penalty of sin !

This purging from sin Heb 1:3 is a purging from the guilt and penalty of sin = Forgiveness through His Blood is another way of saying it or defining it Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

This word forgiveness means:

forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty

That's right, those who are forgiven of their sins, the penalty gone, then they stand before God as though they never sinned, because of Christ. They are guiltless and sinless before God's Law and Justice, and that constitutes Justification before God without them believing, but solely by Christ's Death alone !

The satisfaction that Christ's Blood provided to God's Law and Justice for the sins of those He died for, makes it as all of their sins, trespasses, offenses, iniquities, You name it, Christ's Blood makes it so they No Longer exist against God's Law, Justification !

Our English word Justification in theology means:

the act of God whereby humankind is made or accounted just, or free from guilt or penalty of sin.

However, all Human Kind is Justified before God and free from guilt and penalty of sin. Many shall die in their sins Jn 8:24 !

beloved57
July 16th, 2013, 05:53 PM
Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

This is True, but not of all who are ungodly, but only for those ungodly ones Christ died for the Elect.

Rom 5:6

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

And this is True of the Ungodly that Christ died for, that they were Justified while being Ungodly, because they were Justified by Christ's Blood Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Yes by nature the Elect they are just like other men, ungodly law breakers, guilty sinners,but they are made just solely by the obedience / blood of Christ Rom 5:19b

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

So basically Rom 5:9 and Vs 19b teach the same thing, Justification / made Righteous solely by the obedience / blood of Christ !

By His Death alone, those He died for, have been cleared of all charges, acquitted of all accusations the Law could charge them with, hence free from all Divine Condemnation Rom 8:33-34, and all this while being Ungodly, sinners, and enemies !

beloved57
July 16th, 2013, 09:45 PM
Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Its this Truth, not Justification by Faith alone, but Justification by Grace alone that is the foundation of the Gospel Preaching. Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

That word freely means undeservedly,and not until this Truth is testified to faithfully, no Gospel of God's Grace has been preached and believed.

Yes being freely Justified by His Election of Grace Rom 11:5-7, apart from anything done by the sinner, not his faith, repentance, accepting a gift, nothing done or determined by man !

beloved57
July 17th, 2013, 05:22 AM
The Lord Jesus Christ in His Resurrection from the dead declares those He died for Justified before they themselves believe. Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

25 Who was betrayed and put to death because of our misdeeds and was raised to secure our justification (our acquittal), [making our account balance and absolving us from all guilt before God].AMP

25 Jesus was ·given to die [handed/delivered over; 8:32] ·for [because of] our ·sins [violations; transgressions], and he was raised from the dead ·to make us right with God [for our justification; or to confirm our justification].EXB

Now the Lord Jesus Christ as the Head of His Church which is comprised of both OT and NT Believers, the Seed of Abraham Gal 3:29, He was made to be sin for them, or was delivered for their offences, and punished for them to complete satisfaction of Divine Justice, then as He arose from the dead, it [The Resurrection] declared them Justified and it is finished and accomplished for them. He Himself was Justified from all sin [That had been laid upon Him] and so they as His Body, He as their Head, were also Justified in Him Isa 45:25

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.


But with the Lord’s help, the ·people [descendants; offspring; seed] of Israel
will be ·found to be good [justified; vindicated; or victorious],
and they will ·praise [boast/glory in] him.EXB


Isa 45:25

In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified,.... All the spiritual Israel of God, whether Jews or Gentiles; all the spiritual seed and offspring of Christ, to whom he stands in the relation of the, everlasting Father and federal Head; these being given to him, and being in him, are justified in him from all things; and these, all and everyone, shall be brought to see their need of his righteousness, and look to him for it, and receive it from him by faith; and be manifestatively justified in their own consciences, as they will be openly at the bar of God, before angels and men, hereafter. The Targum is,

""in" or by the Word of the Lord all the seed of Israel shall be justified:'

and shall glory; in Christ, as the Lord their righteousness; not in themselves, in their own righteousness, holiness, wisdom, and strength, but in this, that Christ is made to them wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption, 1 Corinthians 1:30.
John Gill

beloved57
July 22nd, 2013, 01:11 PM
All for whom Christ died are Justified before God by His Death alone, because by His death for them, His blood shed for them,which is the same as His death for them, it makes them Holy, and if Holy, then Justified, and this is true because of this Truth Heb 13:12

Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered [died] without the gate.

This word sanctify means :

to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow

2) to separate from profane things and dedicate to God

a) consecrate things to God

b) dedicate people to God

3) to purify

a) to cleanse externally

b) to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin

c) to purify internally by renewing of the soul

Notice ALSO that His Death ensures their renewing of the soul, which is this Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

But the writer of Hebrews here in Heb 13:12 means:

"the expiation of the guilt of sin, which Christ has fully took away; complete pardon being procured, and a perfect righteousness brought in:"

All for whom He died are freed/Justified from sin by His Body Rom 6:7

7 For he that is dead [with Christ] is freed from sin.

This word freed means:

to render righteous or such he ought to be

2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

All for whom Christ died is dead . In fact, in the greek it reads " having died"

That occurred [having died] when He died for all 2 Cor 5:14

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

The greek reads " then all died"

2 Cor 5:14

14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died;

Its the same principle, as when adam died, all for whom He represented died, and so all for whom Christ represented, when He died, they died.

And this being the case, they are freed or Justified from sin. That is what His Resurrection declares of all for whom offences He died Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

So Rom 4:25 here and Rom 6:7 teach the same thing, Justification before God from all sin by Christ's Death alone !

This also is the same as was prophesied to occur based upon His Covenant Death Lk 1:74-75

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

Also Heb 10:10 confirms that Christ's Death alone Sanctified forever, all those He was delivered in behalf of !

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow

2) to separate from profane things and dedicate to God

a) consecrate things to God

b) dedicate people to God

3) to purify

a) to cleanse externally

b) to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin

c) to purify internally by renewing of the soul

beloved57
July 25th, 2013, 11:18 PM
Justified before believing.

That those who Christ died for are Justified before God before believing in Him is seen here in Paul's words Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

That Justifieth the ungodly is in the present tense, they are in a state of ungodliness, also the definite article precedes the ungodly, so its the whole of the elect, all whom Christ died for, being Justified by His death while they are being ungodly or in a lost state.

And its no where in scripture where the believer in Christ is stated to be the ungodly or in a ungodly state.

Oh Yes they are noted as being ungodly before they believe as when it is said that Christ died for the Ungodly before they believed Rom 5:6

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

It was Christ's Death itself, that Justified them, while they were ungodly in themselves, because He bare their sins Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

And after that [bearing their sins] He was raised from the dead, which Resurrection declared He and them because of it, Justified before God, Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Hence, His dying for the Ungodly Rom 5:6, the resurrection says that dying for them declared them Justified in Him that bare their sins; And ones act of believing had nothing to do with God raising Christ from the dead, Justifying Him from bearing our sins.

beloved57
July 26th, 2013, 07:44 AM
Hence, His dying for the Ungodly Rom 5:6, the resurrection says that dying for them declared them Justified in Him that bare their sins; And ones act of believing had nothing to do with God raising Christ from the dead, Justifying Him from bearing our sins.

Also we know that those Christ died for are Justified before they believe, by His Death alone, because they are at the same time, by Christ's death alone, reconciled to God even while they themselves by nature are enemies. Rom 5:10 ! The word enemies is the greek word"echthros" opposing (God) in the mind, as in Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and [B]enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

At that time believers were unbelievers, however even then as unbelievers they were reconciled to God. That word reconciled katallassō means return to favour with, be reconciled to one

c) to receive one into favour

So understand, because of Christ's Death for those He died for, even while they are in a state of opposing God in their minds with and by wicked works, they have been by God, because of Christ's Death for them, received into His Divine Favour, He is 100% placated in regards to them. He is on a friendly relations with them while they oppose Him and are being unbelievers. How can such then not also be Justified while they are being Ungodly ? They are in the Favor of God !

That word favour means:

to prefer; treat with partiality: The father favored his younger son.

God because of Christ, treats those Christ died for with partiality, with preferential treatment, because others whom Christ did not die for, while they are in unbelief and being enemies, they are already condemned Jn 3:18 and His wrath is abiding on them Jn 3:36 and such have not been received into the favour of God by Christ's Death.

All for whom Christ died were Justified before God with Christ, their Shepherd when He rose from the dead with God being at peace with Him for us Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Yes, when Christ was brought again from the dead after having died for His Sheep Jn 10:15, God was at peace with Him and His Sheep whom He died for, Hence " The God of Peace" Because He is at peace and reconciled to His Sheep by the Death and blood of their Shepherd.

We know this denotes His and their Justification because of Rom 4:25

25 Who[The Shepherd] was delivered for our[The Sheep's] offences, and was raised again for our[The Sheep's] justification.

Hence they [the Sheep] were Justified before they believed.

Now Paul stated the Justification of the Elect or Sheep by God based upon Two premiss:

Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

#1 premise " It is Christ that died " So His Death and #2 He is risen again !

Christ dying and who was raised [ because of our Justification] and this is the basis of His Present intercession !

False Prophet
July 26th, 2013, 08:24 AM
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. Ro 6
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under law, but under grace? God forbid.
But if, while we sought to be justified in Christ, we ourselves also were found sinners, is Christ a minister of sin? God forbid. 18For if I build up again those things which I destroyed, I prove myself a transgressor. Gal 3

beloved57
July 31st, 2013, 10:04 AM
Many of the opponents of the Truth of Justification before God before Faith or believing, they appeal to such scriptures that indicate that one is Justified by Faith or through Faith similar to Rom 3:30

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

or Rom 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

However as those scriptures are True, those who believe are Justified by Faith, yet no matter how true that may be, it does not contradict nor deny Justification before God, based on the merits of Christ alone, before Faith or before believing. They are mere different aspects of the same Justification to be considered and believed; The Fact of the matter is this, before one can be Justified by Faith which is Justification being declared as True to us by the Gospel, Justification before God had to have existed before that declaration can be given to God given Faith.

Yes, believers are Justified by Faith Rom 5:1 since their Justification has been revealed to them and they now embrace it consciously, but their receiving it consciously is not the Act of God Justifying them before His Mind.

If a King legally acquits a prisoner on Tuesday, and the prisoner receives the good news of the acquittal that following Friday, his receiving it had no bearing on what occurred on Tuesday, he just received the good news of it in his own mind and heart later on that Friday ! Upon his receiving that good news, he becomes acquitted by Faith, he believes in or rests in the message of the good news brought to him by the Kings messenger !

beloved57
August 1st, 2013, 11:00 PM
Those who are Justified before Faith before God, based upon The Divine Purpose which includes the blood of Christ in covenant, slain from the foundation Rev 13:8, foreknown before the world began 1 Pet 1:20, based on the blood of the everlasting covenant Heb 13:20. They all shall be Justified by Faith in time at their call by the Gospel Rom 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Its at this Call they do receive a sense and knowledge of it [Justification], they now know themselves Justified in their consciousness to be Justified before God through Spirit wrought Faith 1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

For Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22, and men do not have it [Justifying Faith] by Nature; and men by nature [even the elect] have no way of knowing of such a spiritual blessing as Justification before God until they capacitated by the fruit of Faith from the Spirit, and only to those is the Gospel sent to reveal this Justification / Righteousness to Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

This Righteousness revealed to Faith is the basis of their Justification before God.

So its only proper in the arrangement of Salvation in the Dine Purpose, that those Justified before Faith, are Justified by Faith or through Faith knowingly and consciously. For what comfort or peace can come from it [Justification before God] if its never made known to the one who is. For Justification by Faith is the beginning of the assurance of Faith Heb 10:22

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Without Justification by Faith there would be no Joy and Peace in Believing Rom 15:13

Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

beloved57
August 11th, 2013, 05:43 PM
The World here 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The World of 2 Cor 5:19 is a Justified World ! Now why is this True ? Because they must be already, [in the reckoning of God] declared Righteous or Just in order for God not to impute or charge sin upon them, For God will not in no wise clear the guilty Ex 34:7

Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

Now that word clear is the hebrew word naqah and means:

) to be empty, be clear, be pure, be free, be innocent, be desolate, be cut off

a) (Qal) to be empty, be clean, be pure

b) (Niphal)

1) to be cleaned out, be purged out

2) to be clean, be free from guilt, be innocent

3) to be free, be exempt from punishment

4) to be free, be exempt from obligation

c) (Piel)

1) to hold innocent, acquit

2) to leave unpunished

It also means acquit as here Job 10:14; Nahum 1:3

3 The Lord is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the Lord hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.

But non imputation of sin is acquittal . The Non Imputation of Trespasses = the forgiveness of them Col 2:13

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Yes, those are the same trespasses that God did not lay to their charge 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So those God does not charge with sin, cannot be in His estimation guilty of sin, but on the contrary He must see them as Righteous. In other words, non imputation of sin presupposes Imputation of Righteousness,and so its demonstrated here in the Gospel of Romans 4:6-8

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Thats what 2 Cor 5:19 is about, men of that world to whom the Lord will not impute sin or trespasses.

Here it is clearly stated, God accounting one Righteous apart from works [anything they did] is the foundation for His forgiveness and pardon of sin, and He will not impute it or charge it against them legally.

They are not imputed because they are forgiven, because they were afore Righteous.

Now how is this ? Its because they were chosen in Jesus Christ the Righteous before the foundation Eph 1:4

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

See 1 Jn 2:1 !


They already before the foundation had Christ's Righteousness imputed or charged to them, being in Him by Election.

So their trespasses in time beginning in Adam and also their own, were not charged to them, not imputed to them. It began with Adam Rom 5:15

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

That word offence in the original is the very same word for trespass and the same word in Col 2:13 were all trespasses have been forgiven ! That includes the very first one in Adam, it was not charged or imputed to them legally, being in Christ already !

In Election God put them in Christ 1 Cor 1:30

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

And being in Him, God already made Him unto them Righteousness !

So it is, the Elect World in Christ, that sinned or trespassed in Adam, God does not impute their trespasses unto them. Thats why Paul says right before 2 Cor 5:19,He writes this 2 Cor 5:17

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Being in Christ began for them before the foundation Eph 1:4 and Grace was given them in Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Rom 5:21

That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Grace reigned to the Elect because of Christ's Righteousness, which was also Imputed to them in Him by Election !

With that in Mind, we know that #1 The world in 2 Cor 5:19 cannot possible be all mankind without exception, and #2, Believers are Justified or declared Righteous before God before they believe, in fact before they are even born sinners.

beloved57
August 12th, 2013, 09:36 PM
Justified by Grace !

That those Christ died for, are Justified before God, by His redeeming death alone, apart from their faith , their believing, or any Gospel obedience whatsover, and while they are still being ungodly Rom 4:5, it is confirmed by this Truth right here Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through[on the account of] the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

NOG:

24 They receive God’s approval freely by an act of his kindness through the price Christ Yeshua paid to set us free from sin.

Basically what this means, God accepts all those Christ died for as Righteous, a Gracious Gift, simply on the basis of Christ Paying the ransom.

That's being Justified by Grace, a Free Gift, not offered, not made available, but a Divine Reckoning in the Mind of God for us Rom 8:31-34

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

God does not lay any charge against them for whom Christ paid the ransom for, and that's Justification for them freely because of the Redemption in Christ Jesus !

The redemption is His Blood payment, as a result of His Offering Himself in their stead and behalf, to satisfy God's Law and Justice against all their sins they sinned against His Law. God has nothing to charge them with, they are totally forgiven through His Blood Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Remission of sins is the result of the shedding of the blood ! Remission means:

a sending away, a letting go, a release, pardon, complete forgiveness.

It s a setting free of sin, a Justification, being made free from sin as in Rom 6:7

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

That word freed[dikaioō] means :

to render righteous or such he ought to be

2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

It can read:

for he that hath died is justified from sin.

7 For someone who has died has been cleared from sin.

They died in the Head, the Lord Jesus Christ. They died in Him Representativley in the same way they died representatively in Adam Rom 5:12

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

All for whom Christ died, they died with Him, Paul concludes that here 2 Cor 5:14

For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:or

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that one died for all, therefore all died;ASV

So that's why Paul writes Rom 6:7

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Having died [with Christ] they have been Justified from sin !

Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

This is actually the same thing Paul writes in Rom 3:24, except He emphasizes forgiveness of sins for Justification or being Justified by His Grace through Redemption.

Eph 1:7 Jesus Christ has given his blood [died] to make us free. He has forgiven us for our wrong ways. We have been put right with God freely because of his great kindness.WEB

Now this Justification by Grace has absolutely nothing to do with anything the benefactors did, thought or said, in fact in regards to them it [Justification] was without cause and it was undeserved It is solely based upon Christ's Death/ Blood shed for them.

That's why Paul says later that Christ was raised again for our Justification Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

25 Who was betrayed and put to death because of our misdeeds and was raised to secure our justification (our acquittal), [making our account balance and absolving us from all guilt before God].

Why ? Because of the redemption through His Blood ! So being Justified by His Grace freely through redemption, is not the same as being Justified by Faith, unless we do mean by faith, Christ's Faithfulness in shedding His Blood !

Charity
August 13th, 2013, 01:20 AM
Its Muslim. Your signing a contract to Crake a deal with god.

Justice by grace dose not = a ransomed life....extreme Muslims barter...



People should stop trying to force feed people to except bazaar equations. The Muslims live it..they do it, take life, for their god...an for a privileged position in heaven. a king leader from the other side is a honour! Christians don't seem to recognise the different spirits in the bible...

beloved57
August 13th, 2013, 05:43 AM
Its Muslim. Your signing a contract to Crake a deal with god.

Justice by grace dose not = a ransomed life....extreme Muslims barter...



People should stop trying to force feed people to except bazaar equations. The Muslims live it..they do it, take life, for their god...an for a privileged position in heaven. a king leader from the other side is a honour! Christians don't seem to recognise the different spirits in the bible...

Do you understand the points in post 137

Charity
August 13th, 2013, 07:22 AM
Do you understand the points in post 137

I understand very well! But my soul doesn't agree.

Jesus wasn't really a planed sacrifice. if the romans want to think he caused his crcifing by attempting a revolution...then I'm sure he realised he was going to be killed, an would tell his close friends his time was short....anyone of any importance that try's to correct a corrupt government would fear that.. An more lightly is, that the government will not want to be seen as destroyers. Of corse he crashed his own car into the tree. Insight of the blame.

He tried to rise an rule, an save the people from ruthless taxing exploiting faith in God... Just like Vatican City shows no spiritually, just rituals.
It's still merely same to day.
Evolved perhaps a little. that is...when forced to.
Just when it looks like they might lose ground.
They weren't going to move over an make way for Jesus... Even if the jewish wanted him to be king...An to top it off the Jewish nations is hated from both ways...they had no power an still don't. Can you beat Obama? An that's will be your fault.

But if one jew said kill him..then the whole nation would be accused..
Haven't you heard that....Americans are this an that..sayeth the German that meet one in the street...life is perthtic at times. :)

beloved57
August 13th, 2013, 07:44 AM
charity


I understand very well!

Ok, then prove it. Please rehearse wach point with me. I will be waiting.

beloved57
August 27th, 2013, 04:55 PM
Justified before believing and why ? Its so because, its by means of the act of another, that other is Christ Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Now why are those Christ died for Justified or made Righteous before God before they believe ? Its because they were prior to condemned by the act of Adam, acting as their head and representative, and so when he sinned in that capacity [as their Head /Representative], God imputed condemnation upon all men that he did represent Rom 5:18a, for they [the all men] did not at that time have an actual existence, and so its not an act of theirs [personally] that resulted in the passing of Judgment of condemnation upon them.

Now it is true that the condemnation incurred as per Rom 5:18a by the sin of Adam does become sensibly realized when by the Spirit we are convinced of sin [sinnership], however we were condemned prior to being made sensible to it, by the act of another Adam ; AND so likewise, it is true that the Justification given us in Christ Our Head and Representative, is revealed to God given Faith, however we were Justified by the act of another [Christ] before the sensible realization of it is given though Faith !

Now Adam was a figure/type of Him that was to come [Christ] who came also in a Covenant Head/ Representative Capacity, and scripture tells us that by His act or doing or obedience [Vs 18], that all those He represented, the Judgment and sentence of God passed upon them because of it, is that they are made or declared Righteous and given Justification of life, and this as with the figure Adam, even before they He represented had any being or physical existence, Rom 5:18-19.

beloved57
September 2nd, 2013, 05:06 AM
That Christ's Blood alone, Death alone Justified everyone for whom He died, all those whom offences were charged to Him; For that Truth is taught here Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our [those He died for] offences, and was raised again for[because of][those He died for] our justification.

It's seen as well here Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; [B]even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

The words came upon are the prep εἰς which means:

into, in, unto, to, upon, towards, for, among.

1519 eis (a preposition) – properly, into (unto) – literally, "motion into which" implying penetration ("unto," "union") to a particular purpose or result.

It means toward the result of a specified purpose. The purposed result of the offence of the one adam was Judgment unto condemnation, and the purposed result of the righteousness of Christ [in His Life and Death] is Justification of Life.

Yes, the one act of righteousness here in Rom 5:18 is synonymous with that being delivered up for our trespasses in Rom 4:25; and the resulted Justification of Life in Rom 5:18 is synonymous to that Justification declared in Rom 4:25 evidenced by Christ's Resurrection !

In both instances the stated results were apart from any acts from the recipients of the actions by each one who acted, Adam and Christ in their behalf.

No act of Faith or believing was needed for the result of Justification of Life !

beloved57
September 4th, 2013, 11:00 PM
Rom 6:7

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

7 for he that hath died is justified from sin.

That those Christ died for are Justified solely by His Death is seen here in the above scriptures.

He who hath died or is dead is freed from sin. that word freed is the greek word dikaioó:

I make righteous, defend the cause of, plead for the righteousness (innocence) of, acquit, justify; hence: I regard as righteous.

This is because by Christ's death alone they have been cleared of all charges by the Lord, cleared of all charges (punishment) related to their sins. Moreover, they are justified !

Now this is true of all for whom Christ died, simply because, all for whom He died, God reckons it as if they died, because He died in the place and in their behalf, when He died for their sins 1 Cor 15:3 or when He was delivered for their offences Rom 4:25.

By Him being their Head and Substitute, when He died, so did they as far as the reckoning of Divine Law and Justice is concerned; Just like when they were in Adam, when he died they died,however when they died in adam that death brought to them condemnation, but the death they died in Christ when He died for them, that death brought about their Justification Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

This is basically what Rom 6:7 is saying. So it is by His Death alone apart from anything they do, they are Justified before God. They are freed[Justified] from sin !

beloved57
October 4th, 2013, 10:47 PM
Remission of sins is an aspect of Justification, and can even be called Justification, as it pertains to being justified from all the legal consequences of our sins, for this is what Paul means by it here Acts 13:39

And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Some Translations have the right Ideal here:

39 And that through Him everyone who believes [who acknowledges Jesus as his Savior and devotes himself to Him] is absolved (cleared and freed) from every charge from which he could not be justified and freed by the Law of Moses and given right standing with God.AMP

and in Him every believer is absolved from all offences, from which you could not be absolved under the Law of Moses.WNT

To absolve means:

to free from guilt or blame or their consequences: The court absolved her of guilt in his death.
2.
to set free or release, as from some duty, obligation, or responsibility (usually followed by from ): to be absolved from one's oath.
3.
to grant pardon for.
4.
Ecclesiastical .
a.
to grant or pronounce remission of sins to.
b.
to remit (a sin) by absolution.
c.
to declare (censure, as excommunication) removed.

Being Justified from all things as Per Acts 13:39 means being Justified from all the consequences of ones sins, and it means things the law of Moses in it's Leviticus priesthood with its animal sacrifices could not do ! See Heb Chp 7-10 ; And this Justification of remission of sins is solely accomplished on the death/ blood of Christ Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Heb 9:22

22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Now that Justification here in Acts 13:39 pertains to the forgiveness of sins is seen from what is said in Vs 38

38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

Forgiveness of sins is the negative side of Justification, but does have a positive effect, it gives the forgiven reconciliation to God even while they are enemies Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Reconciliation is because of forgiveness, which is Justification ! This Truth also confirms Justification before Faith !

beloved57
October 10th, 2013, 11:00 PM
All for whom Christ died are Justified before Faith because they have been perfected forever before Faith ! Even though work mongers and those who reject Salvation by Grace through Faith alone, or Justification by Grace alone apart from believing Faith. Its True nevertheless because all for whom Christ died, or by His Offering alone, have been made perfect before God, and so perfectly Righteous. Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering[His Death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Which is all whom He died for Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering[Death] of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Heb 10:14

14 For by a single offering He has forever completely cleansed and perfected those who are consecrated and made holy.AMP

14 By his one sacrifice he has forever set free from sin Justifed from the people he brings to God.CEV


Hebrews 10:14 (NLV) | In Context | Whole Chapter
14 And by one gift He has made perfect forever all those who are being set apart for God-like living.

Now, this Perfection of Righteousness, Justification is something that naturally those Christ died for cannot see [it's invisible], nor feel, nor logically reason, its not known nor understood to any of the natural faculties or senses; The Knowledge of it comes by Faith and the Power of God.

Now it does not matter how many scriptures one can round up against this Truth, the Fact still remains, those that Christ hath died for, by that Death / Offering, hath been perfected forever! And this while they are yet sinners and ungodly in themselves by nature.

beloved57
October 20th, 2013, 08:00 AM
Justification before God is strictly by the Blood of Christ ! Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

This scripture is crystal clear on Justification by the Blood of Christ, and yes this is before the Justified ones believe on Christ.

This Justification by blood is based solely on the redemption that is in His Blood Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

24 [All] are justified and made upright and in right standing with God, freely and gratuitously by His grace (His unmerited favor and mercy), through the redemption which is [provided] in Christ Jesus,

The word freely in Rom 3:24 is the greek word dōrean and means:

I.freely, undeservedly

It also is translated and means:

for nought, without a cause.

So the Justification before God secured and applied to their accounts, is not based upon anything they did. If we make Faith/Believing a condition for it, we deny the Truth, as simple as that.

Its by the Redemption that is in His Blood, because attached with it is Forgiveness of sins Eph 1:7

7 In whom[By His Death] we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

This is all according to God's Grace. Justification is the result of the forgiveness of sins too, which is the result of the redemptive blood payment [ransom] to the Law and Justice of God, for all whom He died.

Redemption therefore is Justification through the Blood of Christ. Redemption is what Christ accomplished for the offences of those He died, and Forgiveness, Justification have been applied to their account. Now it has not yet been applied sensibly to them until they receive the notion of it by God given Faith, but before Faith the factuality of it has been applied in the courtroom of Heaven !

beloved57
October 20th, 2013, 05:09 PM
Rom 3:26

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Those would be His People whom He came to save as Per Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Jesus and His People are the same here in Matt 1:21 and those in Rom 3:26

The Lord Jesus Christ has paid the whole of the sin debt, both in righteous living, and the sin penalty for the broken law, for all whom He died, and in this He has fulfilled for them all of God's Righteous requirements due to God from man !

And this done, Christ's Faithfulness to God's Law on their behalf, God is Just [Having all His Justice satisfied for them] in Justifying those believing.

That is, their believing is evidence, that God hath concluded them without Fault before His Perfect Law and Justice based on Christ's Faithfulness or Obedience. Rom 5:19

19 For just as by one man’s disobedience (failing to hear, heedlessness, and carelessness) the many were constituted sinners, so by one Man’s obedience the many will be constituted righteous (made acceptable to God, brought into right standing with Him).

beloved57
October 21st, 2013, 10:59 AM
Remission of sins is Justification ! 2

Remission of sins or forgiveness of sins = Justification before God because , Christ's Blood does such a thorough job of cleansing us [Those He died for] from all sin, once and for all, that God absolves them of all sin and guilt that to Him, it is as they have never sinned, so God declares them Righteous.

Now this occurred in the Court of Heaven and had nothing to do with anything the Justified ones did, or will do, it had only to do with what Christ did for them and in their behalf, while they know nothing of it.

So all men Christ died for are Justified before God from all sin while they are unbelievers. Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

beloved57
October 21st, 2013, 11:37 AM
You see, because of what Jesus Christ has done for those He died for, God is Just in Justifying them from all unrighteousness against His Most Holy Law; For the only thing that makes any of us sinners before God is transgression of the Law. 1 Jn 3:4

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Paul writes 1 Cor 15:56

The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

In other words, God's right to condemn any for sin, is because His Law is the standard and it is violated by transgression. That word transgress means violate law !

But now, Christ hath dealt with all of our violations of God's Law, so that God sees none against us anymore !

This is solely because of Christ's Satisfaction made to the Father for us ! Now this Satisfaction having been made solely by Christ's Blood, God in Equity and Righteousness and Justice must and does pronounce all for whom Christ died Justified ! They are discharged of any debts whatsoever against God's Law.

Listen, when a Creditor has been paid, He must be true and just to dismiss the the debts of all the debtors that owed Him ! If He dies not, then He Himself becomes unjust !

We know that He accepted the payment of all the debts of all those Christ died for, because , He raised Him from the dead ! Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences [debts], and was raised again for[because of] our justification [acquittal].

All for whom Christ died and satisfied God's Law in behalf of, whom God declares Righteous because of it, in due time have this Truth revealed to them to believe in the Gospel Rom 1:16-17 and so He is :

The justifier of him which believeth in Jesus ! Their believing in Jesus by the Gospel revelation is evidence that God Justified them based solely upon His Satisfaction provided by His Blood to Him !

beloved57
November 15th, 2013, 01:00 AM
All for whom Christ died are by that Justified before God, by His Death, and this is so because all for whom He died hath been reconciled to God by His Death Rom 5:10, and that while they themselves are yet being enemies Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now notice this Truth:

when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son

Paul saying of believers, that when they were enemies /unbelievers. In fact the word enemies means [echthros]:

A.used of men as at enmity with God by their sin
i.
opposing (God) in the mind

Now He is saying, while believers were unbelievers and in their minds opposing God, at enmity with Him, that while they were in that state by nature as others, that nevertheless they were reconciled to God by the death of His Son.

Reconciled here means :

A.
to reconcile (those who are at variance)

B.
return to favour with, be reconciled to one

C.
to receive one into favour

This means that they are in a state of having been approved of God !. This is true of them even though in reality they are opposing Him in their mind by their sin of unbelief !

Now for this to be so,it means that the Merits of Christ's Death have been applied Legally to them. That means its recognized by God's Law to be so !

This is True and based upon the Redemption in His Blood or by His Death Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

The redemption is the :

I.a releasing effected by payment of ransom
A.
Redemption, deliverance

B.
Liberation procured by the payment of a ransom

The releasing means:

act of absolving; a freeing from blame or guilt; release from consequences, obligations, or penalties.

It means total forgiveness of all sins, not liable to any punishment or consequences of sins, and made Just before God as though never sinned in Adam or in themselves !

And so Reconciliation to God is not possible without redemption here described. So those for whom Christ died for, just as they are reconciled to God while enemies by His Death / Blood, SO LIKEWISE the same ones are Justified and free from all guilt of sin, and consequences of sin, while Enemies, by the Death of His Son, and since this is True of them as Enemies then it is as they are Unbelievers !

This is a Gospel of Kingdom Truth !

beloved57
November 15th, 2013, 11:18 PM
Those Jesus Christ died for are by his death alone, which is also called his obedience Rom 5:19, doeth make or declare them Righteous/Justified before God Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous !

For one cannot be made or declared righteous without being Justified, for what is Justification but to be declared righteous. That is stated in Vs 18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

That word justification dikaiōsis:

I.
the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him

II.
abjuring to be righteous, justification Its the same word for Righteous in Vs 19 !

Now it is not their faith that makes any of this true before God, neither does faith cause the existence of ones Justification before God [excepts for Christ's faithful obedience] for it has been beforehand, but Christ by His Spirit and Gospel does make it known to us Our Righteousness and Justification, along with our forgiveness of sins, hence they were Justified by Christ before they come to believe it, hence faith is the means of how we receive the knowledge of our Justification as stared Lk 1:77

77 To give knowledge of salvation/Justification unto his people by the remission of their sins,

and from this comes comfort and conscience Peace through believing. Rom 15:13

Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

beloved57
November 25th, 2013, 09:12 PM
That those Christ died for are Justified solely by His death, apart from any obedience from them He died for, is a Truth taught in scripture and is part of the Gospel of God which Paul Preached Rom 1:1. One such scripture is Rom 5:19, this verse teaches that by the obedience of ONE, that One being Jesus Christ, That Obedience being His Death Phil 2:8;Heb 2:9, that many shall be made Righteous [ That's Saved] Now what is Plainer than that ? To be declared Righteous is Justification and it is Salvation which is effected solely by Christ's Obedience which is His Death.

Now the OT counterpart of the same Gospel Truth is here Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

They are being Justified or accounted Righteous here as a result of His Knowledge and Bearing their sins, which is the same as His Obedience of One in Rom 5:19b

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Now some will say that it says in Isa 53:11, by His Knowledge shall my Righteous Servant Justify many, but that matters not, nor does it detract from the plain stated truth, for its not by the sinners knowledge that He shall Justify many, but by His Own Knowledge He shall do it. Now since this verse is the OT counterpart to Rom 5:19, His Knowledge in Isa 53:11 is His experiential knowledge in that by the things He suffered, He Learned Obedience Heb 5:8

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

The word learned here is the greek word manthanō:

I.to learn, be apprised
A.
to increase one's knowledge, to be increased in knowledge

B.
to hear, be informed

C.
to learn by use and practice
i.
to be in the habit of, accustomed to

Also the word for obedience here in Heb 5:8 is the same one in Rom 5:19.

What He learned was Knowledge. His being acquainted with grief was learned knowledge as Per Isa 53:3

He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

The word acquainted, the Hebrew yada is the root word for Knowledge in Isa 53:11 and it does mean to know by experience.

Now all this goes to show the Gospel Truth, that by His Death alone, all those He died for are accounted Righteous before God's Law and Justice, BEFORE THEY BELIEVE ! In fact before they are born sinners. To deny this is to deny the Gospel of God, it deny's the Death of Christ, which leaves one without any other hope of Salvation !

beloved57
December 3rd, 2013, 12:27 PM
Ones Justification before God, if indeed Christ died for them, does not depend on their believing it, apprehending it by Faith, nor receiving it by Faith, in fact they do not even have to know about it at all, and in fact they don't until its revealed to them. The Only thing their Justification before God depended on was this Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

His Knowledge of them, which is foreknowledge and His Suffering Obedience, and He bearing their iniquities, and that's it. By those Two Things they are Justified before God, or as the ESV reads:


Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous,
and he shall bear their iniquities.

Because of that, their Justification, their being declared Righteous is a done deal eternally. Now, in God's Time, those that its a done deal for, shall have it made known to them by the Gospel, theen they shall apprehend that fact by Faith Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Rom 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

That's what True Justification by Faith means, that ones already done and accomplished Eternal Justification by Christ's Obedience for them, is revealed to them in the Gospel. Rom 1:16-17 !

However they were still eternally Justified before they apprehended it by God given Faith.

beloved57
December 4th, 2013, 06:56 AM
To say a person is Justified before God by their believing, or because of their believing, is a flat out denial that one is Justifed by Christ; For there is a difference in what Christ did, and what the person does; Now if we acknowledge that our believing was a assent to the Truth of our Justification before God being already a accomplished fact and a done deal solely by Christ's Blood As Per Rom 5:9, then believing is just a good work and evidence of our Justification before God. For it is written Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Justification before God is the thing not seen by the physical Eye, but it must exist before Faith is the Evidence of it !

Ones now having evidence of it , is not what caused it to exist before God as a fact, prior to receiving evidence of it.

Truster
December 4th, 2013, 08:10 AM
You say sinners are reconciled to God have you personal proof of this or is it a doctrine you like? Because unless the doctrine of reconciliation in the part of the Holy Spirit applying redemption there is just the killing letter and no work of the Spirit.
In this a man has not been shown his sin, has not suffered under law nor felt the enmity of the Father against his carnal thoughts of the flesh. That man is just a Bible student and not a very good one at that.

Application of redemption!

beloved57
December 4th, 2013, 08:13 AM
You say sinners are reconciled to God have you personal proof of this or is it a doctrine you like? Because unless the doctrine of reconciliation in the part of the Holy Spirit applying redemption there is just the killing letter and no work of the Spirit.
In this a man has not been shown his sin, has not suffered under law nor felt the enmity of the Father against his carnal thoughts of the flesh. That man is just a Bible student and not a very good one at that.

Application of redemption!

Shut up you reprobate !

beloved57
December 6th, 2013, 08:03 AM
Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

The guilt of sin is removed by Justification, becasuse its the declaring of one Not Guilty. When Jesus Christ sat down at the Right Hand of the Majesty on High, it was after completing for those He died for, the purging or purification of their sins. This word purged is the greek word katharismos and means:

cleansing, purification, a ritual purgation or washing
A.
of the washing of the Jews before and after their meals

B.
of levitical purification of women after childbirth

C.
a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ


Its a cleansing from the Guilt of our sins, by the Sacrifice of Himself on our behalf, if He died for us.

And this means that those He did die for have no guilt of sin before God's Eye of Justice, they are without sin's guilt before Him, and therefore they are faultless, unblameable before Him , Yes Justified. That's why it says this Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of][B] our justification.

When He was Raised, it was living proof that Purification of our sins before God's Law and Justice, the guilt removed for them, was successful, and consequently they are Justified from the penalty and guilt of them.

This is not accomplished by their believing, but by what Christ did, and then rested from.

Those Christ died for are born into this world as depraved inners, ungodly as can be, yet, because of Christ's Purging their sins and now sitting down next to the Majesty on High, They are Justified, and Unblameable before God. Now I know the religionist cannot receive this Good News, But God's Elect shall receive it by God Given Faith from the New Birth !

beloved57
December 24th, 2013, 08:28 AM
Lk 24:47

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Jesus says that in His Name, Repentance and Remission of sins should be preached to all nations.

This is because there are men and women in all nations for whom Christ secured for them that great blessing. How did He do that ? Matt 26:28

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


Its because His Blood was shed for them, and through that Blood, the Blood of the New Covenant, the have Remission of sins.

Now what does this mean ? The word remission is the greek word aphesis and means:


I.release from bondage or imprisonment

II.forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty

As you can see it means forgiveness or pardon of sins. Its translated forgiveness 6 times in the NT to include here Eph 1:7


In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

That redemption through His Blood points back to Matt 26:28, the Blood of the New Covenant or Testament for many !

Now this Remission of sins here by the blood of Christ is first and foremost to be considered judicially or it is a Judicial or Legal act of God, an acquittal before the Court of God's Law and Justice . It means a setting free from the charge of an offense by verdict, sentence, or other legal process

Also the persons so acquitted are to be announced Vindicated or Justified ! Their persons are declared Justified, their sins forgiven, and acquitted from all charges Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

The clear implication is that God has acquitted them, who else can lay any charge against them, because God has Acquitted or Justified them !

God has acquitted and Vindicated from all condemnation, and guilt all for whom Christ has died Rom 8:34

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

His dying being also the shedding of His Blood Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

This Blood has made in the Sight of God for them[The Many] a plenteous Satisfaction to His Law and Justice !

And Christ did it for them in His Name, because He did it as their Surety Representative, all He Suffered of the Law and Justice of God, was on their behalf and in their place !

So this Remission of sins has legally, and judicially laid to their account, even when they themselves know nothing of it, and even while they are dead in trespasses and sins, and unbelief !

beloved57
January 8th, 2014, 10:41 AM
Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

NT counterpart Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The Isa 53:11 also reads as:

11 He shall see [the fruit] of the travail of His soul and be satisfied; by His knowledge of Himself [which He possesses and imparts to others] shall My [uncompromisingly] righteous One, My Servant, justify many and make many righteous (upright and in right standing with God), for He shall bear their iniquities and their guilt [with the consequences, says the Lord].AMP


Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous,
and he shall bear their iniquities. ESV

Now it appears from this scripture Isa 53:11 that all for whom Christ died, which is to bear their iniquities, resulted in them being Justified or accounted Righteous.

However, punishment of sin in and of itself makes no one Righteous, yet it does pay their sin debt to God's Justice, but in order to be declared Righteous as well, God must indeed view us as Righteous, hence we conclude that all for whom He died also had Christ's Righteousness Imputed to them, charged to them, that is His Active Obedience to all of God's Commandments, His Holy Law in Mind, Heart, Soul and Strength !

beloved57
January 22nd, 2014, 07:37 AM
Justification an act of God's Grace Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

in that He Remits or does not impute the sins of the elect, the Church, His Sheep upon them and accepts them as Righteous :


Being treated as if righteous; that is, being regarded and treated as if they had kept the Law. Barnes Notes

Not in themselves are they considered Righteous, but in His Sight by Redemption through Christ and Imputed Righteousness, which however in time will be received by them by God given Faith from New Birth.

This Justification is Threefold, #1 Its in Eternity or from Eternity, in that Christ before the world began, was made a Surety for all those Chosen in Him, His Seed, He therefore by Surety pledge took their trespasses [to be committed in time] upon Himself.

The Surety principle is here stated Prov 6:1

My son, if thou be surety for thy friend, if thou hast stricken thy hand with a stranger,

Christ in this case engaged Himself before the foundation, to pay the debt incurred by His Friends unto God's Law and Justice. Heb 7:22

22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

We believe that this Testament is the one stated here Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant or testament,

We believe its mentioned here by the Apostle Paul 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The first occurrence of this non imputation was in Christ's Eternal Suretyship in the Everlasting Covenant , where He pledged to shed His Blood for their law violations !

This was an Eternal Pledge with the Father, by which He did transfer the trespasses of His Own Elect from them to His Son, and Hence the Father did reckon the sins of His Chosen upon His Son from Eternity, and by this Eternal act, their sins against His Law were Eternally discharged against them, but not from their Surety. They the Elect Sons of God were His [ Christ their Surety] delight before the World was Created Prov 8:31

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

According to this Suretyship of the blood of the Everlasting Covenant, Christ was the Lamb slain from the foundation, yes even foreordained, this being reckoned upon in the Eternal Divine Counsels. The Father was always well pleased with His Son, even before the Cross occurred in time, and so even the OT Church of believers were Justified by it [His Blood] even before it was actually shed in time See Heb 7:22; Isa 53:6; 2 Cor 5:21 ; Eph 1:4; 2 Tim 1:9; Rev 13:8; 1 Pet 1:20 !

beloved57
January 24th, 2014, 08:41 AM
#2 Those whom Christ was made sin for, by imputation, having their sins charged to Him as their Surety, they as He was for them, Justified at His Resurrection, or we can say at their Resurrection with Him ! This is True because of the testimony Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, [B]and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

Folks this scripture alone should silence all opposers to the Truth of Justification before God of those Christ died for before Faith ! The testimony of the Truth is right here !

When Jesus Christ was vindicated by the Resurrection from the dead, it was not as a private person for himself, but for those whose offences he was delivered for , those of His Body the Church See Eph 5:25 !

Paul goes into some detail about this relationship in Rom 5:12ff, and then he writes in Rom 6:4

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

That's because they were also raised up together with Him by the Glory of the Father by Union with Him, so again Christ was not raised up as an private individual, but as a federal head representative, OT Prophecy predicted this Union of Christ and His members in Union at His Resurrection Isa 26:19

Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Now just as Christ was delivered up for their offences, and not his personally, so likewise, His resurrection from the dead as proof of His being Justified, was not for His own personal Justification, but of those whom's offences He was delivered for !

Again, this condemns all who teach that man must exercise faith in Christ to be Justified from all sin before God's Law and Justice, for that is just not so , and it detracts from the death of Christ's accomplishment and calls the Resurrection of Him a Lie !

beloved57
January 24th, 2014, 10:43 AM
#3 Now those who are Justified by Christ's death, verified by His resurrection from the dead Rom 4:25,

They have at least one more Justification to expeience , that is in their consciousness, that verdict must be passed in their persons, this is done in the New Birth and the Spirit's witness, and hence by Faith we receive the witness of the Spirit in our consciousness Rom 8:16

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

That means Faith has been given for this witness to be carried out Gal 3:26

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

By this they are enabled to receive the Joy and Peace of Believing Rom 15:13

Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

That's because the Power of the Spirit produces the Faith, in fact Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

God given Faith is instrumental in conveyance of the Spiritual Knowledge of Justification in our hears and minds , but never is it the cause of our Justification before God !

beloved57
January 31st, 2014, 12:21 AM
Rom 3:26

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

That He might be Just and the Justifier of him which is believing on Jesus !

Now one of the meanings of this verse is that all who come to be believers in Jesus, its because God's Law and Justice has been satisfied for them by Jesus, that one who came to save His People from their sins Matt 1:21; and so they become believers because what Christ did for them is made known to them by the Spirit, for the Spirit takes what is Christ's accomplishment for them, and shows it to them Jn 16:14

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.[The Church]

Since Christ has died for them, and satisified God's Law and Justice, paid their sin debt in full, they are given the right and privilege of believing on Him Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

And of course those who do not believe on Jesus for Salvation, its simply because they were not of His Sheep which He died for Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Non sheep do not have that privilege given to them Matt 13:11

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Once again, those for whom Christ died, He for them only satisfied God's Law and Justice in His Sufferings and Death , which all the wrath due to their sins, and also fulfilling its Righteousness, so Faith is given to them through the Righteousness of God and their Saviour Jesus Christ 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

All who come to believe on Jesus was because they were Justified before God by His Death and Imputed Righteousness !

beloved57
January 31st, 2014, 07:39 AM
All for whom Christ died, are by that fact alone, Justified before God, and because of it ; and so is the meaning of these most blessed words Rom 8:32-34

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

The obvious point here is that the non charges on God's Elect is solely based upon the Fact that Christ died, that He was delivered up and this constituted the phrase " It is God that Justifieth "

Now, if God delivered Christ up to die for us as per Vs 32, then we are delivered and Justified; and Christ having been delivered up for our offences as Per Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Then who shall lay anything to our Charge ? The implication is that God certainly doesn't ! For it is God that Justifieth ! The things the Apostle stated in Vs 32 of Rom 8 is what Gods Justifying is based upon in Vs 33 and then its clearly stated in the top of Vs 34 " It is Christ that died"

And then it is the Resurrection that gives evidential proof of the same Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

In other words, if God did not raise up Christ from the dead after He was delivered up for our sins, then we would have been condemned ! However, because He did raise up Christ after He died for the sins of those He died for, it means that those ones are Justified before Him; For that is what the resurrection signifies and proclaims ! The Justification of those He died in behalf of, and so He makes Intercession for them whom His Death Justified Rom 8:34

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again [For our Justifcation], who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Jesus Christ died in order that God might Jusify us, He was made a curse for us by dying Gal 3:13 and now God in Divine Justice acquits us , from the curse of the Law, which is Eternal Damnation Matt 25:41

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Nanja
January 31st, 2014, 08:18 AM
All for whom Christ died, are by that fact alone, Justified before God, and because of it ; and so is the meaning of these most blessed words Rom 8:32-34

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

The obvious point here is that the non charges on God's Elect is solely based upon the Fact that Christ died, that He was delivered up and this constituted the phrase " It is God that Justifieth "

Now, if God delivered Christ up to die for us as per Vs 32, then we are delivered and Justified; and Christ having been delivered up for our offences as Per Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Then who shall lay anything to our Charge ? The implication is that God certainly doesn't ! For it is God that Justifieth ! The things the Apostle stated in Vs 32 of Rom 8 is what Gods Justifying is based upon in Vs 33 and then its clearly stated in the top of Vs 34 " It is Christ that died"

And then it is the Resurrection that gives evidential proof of the same Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

In other words, if God did not raise up Christ from the dead after He was delivered up for our sins, then we would have been condemned ! However, because He did raise up Christ after He died for the sins of those He died for, it means that those ones are Justified before Him; For that is what the resurrection signifies and proclaims ! The Justification of those He died in behalf of, and so He makes Intercession for them whom His Death Justified Rom 8:34

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again [For our Justifcation], who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Jesus Christ died in order that God might Jusify us, He was made a curse for us by dying Gal 3:13 and now God in Divine Justice acquits us , from the curse of the Law, which is Eternal Damnation Matt 25:41

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


Thank God for the blood of Christ!

For it was His obedience that resulted in His Sheep becoming righteous;
this is what His death alone accomplished for them (Rom. 5:19).

~~~~~

beloved57
January 31st, 2014, 08:23 AM
nanja

Thank God for the blood of Christ!


For it was His obedience that resulted in His Sheep becoming righteous;
this is what His death alone accomplished for them (Rom. 5:19).

Praise Him !

beloved57
February 2nd, 2014, 03:21 AM
Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

All those whom Christ died for are not only reconciled to God " by His Death alone" while they are enemies/ungodly Per Rom 5:10, but also as informed by this present text Rom 4:5, they are being justified while in a state of ungodliness ! We know that they are being Justified while being ungodly because in the original Justifying is in the present tense and ungody has the definite article before it, denoting that He is justifying those who are the ungodly. That word ungodly is asebés:

impious, ungodly, wicked,
lack of reverence ("without due respect"), i.e. failing to honor what is sacred

destitute of reverential awe toward God, contemning God, impious: Romans 4:5; Romans 5:6;

These words define what the justified ones are by nature in themselves while they are being Justified by God !

So basically, what we have here, those Christ died for are in a state of free Justification before God, while they are in a ugodly state in themselves by nature. In themselves ungodly, before God because of Christ Justified. The word justifieth is the greek word Dikaioo:

render righteous or such he ought to be
to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

It also is translated being freed as in Acts 13:39

and by him every one that believes is freed from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses.

So while being ungodly in themselves, they are freed from being pronounced ungodly by the Judgment of God, and instead Righteous are they !

Now they are not just freed from this Judgment of being ungodly before God just for the sake of it, but because while being ungodly, they have Christ's Righteousness imputed to them, for Righteousness is imputed them without works Rom 4:6

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Without works, works being :

/érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose).

So its imputed without any action of theirs, any desire of theirs, because they are in a state of ungodliness !

You see, God is Just in Justifying the elect while in a state of ungodliness, corruption and sin, for the sake of Christ's Righteousness He hath made unto them 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This is a truth that false religionists will not be able to receive, for its foolishness to them !

beloved57
February 3rd, 2014, 08:15 AM
Rom 4:5 is one of the many scriptures that teach the Gospel doctrine of Justification before God prior to faith or believing Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

In this scripture its carefully indicated that the object of the believers Faith is God who Justifieth the ungodly or is justifying [present tense] the ungodly, now if being ungodly when Justifying them, then they were unbelieving; and yet He is Justifying them as such ! Because He that Justifies the ungodly justifies the unbeliever , the enemy, He is justifying them before their act of Faith or obedience to the Faith, which Faith evidences their Justification already in Christ !

beloved57
February 17th, 2014, 04:21 PM
It must be careful on how we understand Justification before God legally by the Obedience/Death of Christ, and Justification by ones work/s whenever we have Justification applied to us by the New Birth, or given heart circumcision, whereby we participate, partake in a conversion experience, whereby we do act Repentance and Faith toward God and The Lord Jesus Christ.

If we however deny Justification before God legally [in the court of heaven] even while we are ungodly Rom 4:5 and enemies Rom 5:10, and unbelievers and do not hold to being Justified legally before God solely on the meritorious blood of Christ, and only what He did for us, and not yet what He does in us, then again we deny the Legal Grace aspect of Justification soley by Christ's Death and trust to what we do after having had Justification applied inwardly by the Holy Spirit. To trust in the Spirit's Work in us, for Justification before God legally, overthrows and comes into competition with the Lord Jesus Christ's Work for Us, and that alone being the basis for ones Justification before God; Thus subtle heresy is what has deceived many who claim Justification before God by Faith alone, not realizing they are still teaching a work based Justification before God, based upon what a man does as a result of a inward work in them.

Last thing, its very important, Once we tend to base Justification before God on a inward or inherent qualification, be it natural or Spiritual, we are guilty of turning to Justification by our works, and deny Justification before God solely upon the Work of Christ, which the Resurrection of Christ does testify unto Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

But once we look inherently even be it our graces from Spiritual New Birth, and say in our heart, for this God Justified me, we deny the Legal Justification of the Cross, and so deny the Cross altogether !

beloved57
March 2nd, 2014, 03:53 PM
Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.


34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.


All for whom Christ died are Justified because :

#1 He died for them, and so Justified solely by His Blood Rom 5:9


9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

#2 Because He rose because of their Justification Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, [B]and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

#3 Because He sits on the Right Hand of God, and so they are also in Him Eph 2:6

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

4 th He maketh Intercession for them, which doeth ensure their Justification by Faith, through the Spirit's Work in Them 1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Now everyone Christ died for has an interest in His Resurrection as well Per Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences,[B] and was raised again for [because of] our justification.

and everyone who has an Interest in His Resurrection, have a interest in His Intercession for them at the Right Hand of God, who are already Justified Persons, and how do we know this ? Because all who had in a Interest in His Resurrection were Justified, since since He was raised up again for or because of their Justification Rom 4:25, Hence Christ intercession / advocacy is limited to the Justified Persons sitting with Him in Heavenly Places Eph 2:6

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

beloved57
March 26th, 2014, 10:16 PM
Are those that Jesus Christ died for, Justified from all sin before God's Law and Justice prior to any Gospel Obedience they shall render, such as Faith and Repentance ? Yes by all means they are, or how else can it be declared that God Justifieth the Ungodly Rom 4:4-6

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Gospel Obedience to the Truth is Godliness Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Now if God Justifieth the Ungodly, then it cannot be after an act of Godliness ! And if it be not of works so that it can be of Grace, then it cannot be of any condition that was imposed upon the one being Justified !

Also if they [The Justified ones] are believing on Him [Rom 8:33] that is Justifying the Ungodly, then the verdict of Justification is being passed upon them while being Ungodly; Hence how can Faith, Repentance, or any Gospel ordinance or obedience be a condition to Justification before God , when its based upon Christ's Finished Work for them ?

Then once again, men that Christ died for are Justified before God apart from Faith or any obedience from them.

They are being Justified while nothing is in them but ungodliness and enmity against God , even as they are reconciled to God while being enemies, by the Death of His Son Rom 5:10, now if we are not Justified before God before we act obedience of Faith or Repentance, then we were not Justified as being Ungodly, but as Godly and Obedience, which would contradict Rom 4:5, where its plainly stated that God Justified the Ungodly !

Nanja
March 27th, 2014, 07:44 AM
beloved


Now if God Justifieth the Ungodly, then it cannot be after an act of Godliness ! And if it be not of works so that it can be of Grace, then it cannot be of any condition that was imposed upon the one being Justified !

Also if they [The Justified ones] are believing on Him [Rom 8:33] that is Justifying the Ungodly, then the verdict of Justification is being passed upon them while being Ungodly; Hence how can Faith, Repentance, or any Gospel ordinance or obedience be a condition to Justification before God , when its based upon Christ's Finished Work for them ?

Then once again, men that Christ died for are Justified before God apart from Faith or any obedience from them.

They are being Justified while nothing is in them but ungodliness and enmity against God , even as they are reconciled to God while being enemies, by the Death of His Son Rom 5:10, now if we are not Justified before God before we act obedience of Faith or Repentance, then we were not Justified as being Ungodly, but as Godly and Obedience, which would contradict Rom 4:5, where its plainly stated that God Justified the Ungodly !



Amen!

Any action a person may perform to justify himself before God, such as accepting, believing, receiving or obeying;
he is actually attempting to make payment for his own sins; working out his own debt (Rom. 4:4).

However, the believing on Christ that one does as a result of His Justifying of them, is a Sovereign Work of God (Heb 10:39)
which He gives/grants to him (Rom. 5:15; Eph. 2:8; Phil. 1:29), it is the evidence that they were Justified by Christ's death for them; and these are the chosen and predestined ones elected to Salvation Christ prayed for, "which shall believe on me through their word" (John 17:20).

~~~~~

beloved57
March 27th, 2014, 07:49 AM
nanja


However, the believing on Christ that one does as a result of His Justifying of them, is a Sovereign Work of God (Heb 10:39)
which He gives/grants to him (Rom. 5:15; Eph. 2:8; Phil. 1:29), it is the evidence that they were Justified by Christ's death for them; and these are the chosen and predestined ones elected to Salvation Christ prayed for, "which shall believe on me through their word" (John 17:20).

Yes indeed !

beloved57
April 20th, 2014, 04:13 AM
Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

This verse actually teaches the Gospel of God's Grace, and it speaks of Justification before God simply premised on Grace , because of or for the sake of the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus, meaning His Death, His Tasting Death by the Grace of God Heb 2:9, each man He tasted death for , they are freely Justified thereby, and this Justification is apart from any Gospel obedience of their own, be it faith obedience, or repentance obedience, for if it had anything to do with any act of their own, then it was not freely done by God.

That word freely is the greek word dórean and means:

as a free gift, without payment, freely, something freely done (as gratis), i.e. without "cause"; unearned (undeserved); freely given (without cost) hence not done out of mere obligation or compulsion.

See Faith and Repentance are obligations, God commands Repentance Acts 17:30

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Commanding means its an obligation, its a compulsion to be adhered to, complied with !

So If God Justified any based upon a compliance to His Command, then it was not done freely by His Grace as stated in the text Rom 3:24, simple as that !

beloved57
April 20th, 2014, 02:59 PM
This Justification in Rom 3:24 God does bestow or impute or charge to, or reckon to, all for whom Christ died, and this without any demand whatsover on their persons, but solely on the Gift Imputed through the Work of Christ, or the Redemption that is in Him Rom 5:18b

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon[By Imputation or Reckoning] all men unto justification of life.

Also Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

This being made Righteous is by imputation of what Christ has done, its charged to the Elect's Sinner Account, and God reckons him or her, because of or through Christ, as if they had done everything that the Law of God requires, so in actuality they are these Rom 2:13

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Thats because that Obedience that Christ rendered to God's Law, all that was required of the Law of God Matt 22:37-40

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


This has been charged to everyone Christ died for, as a Free Gift, even while they are unbelievers and enemies ! Thats because its all of Grace they have been freely Justified !

beloved57
April 22nd, 2014, 04:38 AM
Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Even so by the Righteousness OF ONE NOT TWO, BUT ONE, the Free Gift CAME UPON, not made available, not offered to, BUT CAME UPON all men to JUSTIFICATION OF LIFE !

Now we know the false antichrist followers tell us that this means all men without exception have Justification of Life, but thats a lie, the verse does not say that and surely cannot begin to mean that, those who believe that are wifully ignorant to what Justification of Life means, and what is meant by it coming upon all for whom it did come upon !

First the words came upon are not in the orginal but are translated from the preposition eis which means:

eis (a preposition) – properly, into (unto) – literally, "motion into which" implying penetration ("unto," "union") to a particular purpose or result.

It denotes a result, that being the result of either, as in the case of the one offence of Adam the result being " judgment came upon all men to condemnation"

Folk that was the result and purpose of God in effect, and it had nothing to do with the all men to whom Judgment and Condemnation came upon doing anything, or not doing anything, their individual acts or non acts are irrelevant !

Now with the same line of reasoning Justification of Life came upon all men as a result of The Righteousness of ONE Jesus Christ, and it likewise had nothing to do with the all men to whom Justifcation came upon, their individual acts or non acts are not relevant to the result !

Now the result of the former , that is what came upon them was Judgment to condemnation :

And the result of the Latter, that is what came upon them was Justification of Life, which means:

acquittal, justifying, justification, a process of absolution.

the act of pronouncing righteous, acquittal

And this acquital, pronouncing Righteous brings with it an added benefit which is Life !

Now, for Rom 5:18 to be taught as meaning all men without exception have come upon them Justification of Life, by the One Act of Righteousness of Jesus Christ is to say all men without exception are before God acquitted of all guilt and pronounced by Him as Righteous !

And we know that is not True because that would lead to the false teaching of Universalism and it would deny the fact that scripture teaches that some men are condemned already Jn 3:18 and are under God's Wrath Jn 3:36 with the promise of not seeing Life ! Which contradicts having had Justification of Life come opon them as those in Rom 5:18 did because of the Righteousness of One !

beloved57
April 22nd, 2014, 07:46 AM
This Justification of Life through the Lord Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the Divine Promise to Israel, God's Elect Isa 45:25

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

The all men that Justification of Life came upon in Rom 5:18 are the All Men that constitute all the Seed of Israel [Christ] the Seed of Abraham Gal 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

There can be no Justification of Life unto anyone apart from the Divine Promise of Isa 45:25, if it is, its outside of the Lord Jesus Christ and therefore worthless !

Some may argue and say that Isa 45:25 is speaking only of ethnic jews, but its not, its speaking of both ethnic jews and ethnic Gentiles who are the Israel of God. See the Mystery has always been that elect Gentiles are also Israel, an Israel that has nothing to do with ethnicity ! It only had to be that they all belonged to a certain Seed , and not a physical seed !

beloved57
April 27th, 2014, 05:45 PM
Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Folks we do not believe in Justification by Faith unless we understand that we were Justified first by God while in a ungodly and faithless state !

The statement "him that justifieth the ungodly" is true only if He does Justify them while being Ungodly, being ungodly as in the present tense, while presently being in a state of Ungodliness. The scripture proves that God's Elect, those Christ died for Rom 8:33-34, that while in an active state of ungodliness, that at the same time they were in a state of passive Justification of Life Rom 5:18b

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

The reason for this is because all for whom He died, has had a Robe of Righteousness imputed to them, Fod God hath made Him be unto them 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

And again, this while we are being in ourselves ungodly and enemies Rom 5:10, and such scripture as these establish the fact that God's Elect whom Christ died are Justified before God prior, anterior to Faith !

beloved57
April 28th, 2014, 05:44 AM
If Justified before Faith, we are [if Christ died for us] Justified before our existence ! Now if scripture gives evidence of God's Elect being Justified before God before their Faith and even while being ungodly, being premised solely on the imputed righteousness of their Surety, then its very plausible, as a consequence of that same Imputed Righteousness that the Elect are Justified in the Sight of God before their actual [in time] existence, lest we conclude that the Surety Righteousness of Christ did not have that type of Merit and Excellence and transcendence in and of itself to Justify, but that it did need ones act of Faith to give it that Virtue !

beloved57
April 28th, 2014, 09:11 AM
Many in false organized religion, or even unorganized religion, people who claim to be Christian, but are not really, never believing the Gospel, many of them will say that God does not save unbelievers, but that is a bold face lie, where is the scripture that states that ? If that were true, then all men would be lost and without hope, because all men by nature are lost and imprisoned in unbelief Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

All are by nature lost in the sphere of unbelief !

But yet Thanks be to God, that He does save / Justify unbelievers, ungodly people Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Now the object of Faith here is God who is justifying the UNGODLY, and as such, they are unbelievers, and God who Justifies them as such, as ungodly, then unbelievers, that is before faith antecedently to the act of believing, which act is an evidence of their already Justification in Christ, for He rose and was Justified on their account Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[on account of] our offences, and was raised again for[on account of] our justification.

Simply meaning, if those on whose account He died for were not thereby Justified before God's Law and Justice before Him, then He would not have been risen from the dead ! And all believers that He died for are first unbelievers , so they were Justified while being unbelievers, the Resurrection proves it !

beloved57
May 4th, 2014, 03:24 PM
1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Now what exactly does it mean to be Justified soely in the Name of the Lord ?

I will tell you now, it does not mean to be Justified by Faith ! What it does mean is that they were Justified solely in the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ, in all that He is and has done, apart from anything they themselves have done; Remember Romans 5:19b

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Yes, its the same word for Justified in 1 Cor 6:11, for they are both talking about the same thing, to be made Righteous solely by His One Obedience is the exact equivalen to being Justified in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ !

According to Rom 5:19b all for whom He died [His Obedience unto death] shall be made Righteous how ? Again by His One Obedience, which again is the same as being Justified in His Name; Also as He is their Head and Represenative, what He accomplikshed in His Name, they accomplished together with Him; His Justification was actually and fully theirs Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Thats what it means to be Justified in His Name or in the Name of the Lord, In His Person and Work on Our Behalf,If He indeed lived and died and rose for Us !

beloved57
May 4th, 2014, 08:31 PM
In no wise is Justification the act of man, nor associated with any act of man, it does not depend on nor is it conditioned upon mans faith or believing or even his knowledge of it, for it is solely an Immanent Act of God as Judge, and its date in the Mind of God is Eternal, for He hath judged the case of His own Elect before the foundation of the World, as He hath chosen them in Him at that early date Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

And then and there was their [the chosen] sins reckoned upon Him, the Lamb slain from the foundation Rev 13:8; Isa 53:6, and because of this, God will never impute their sins upon them Ps 32:1-2

1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

The World of 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The world of 2 Cor 5:19 is an Eternally Justified world, no question about it,and none of its citizens shall ever have any sin charged to them, for God will not impute sin to them BECAUSE , He has already imputed their sins to Christ, and by that they are Truly blessed; and because of His Suretyship, it was necessary for Him to fulfill the prophecy of Dan 9:24

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness/Justification, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

He was to bear the sins of the elect, to finish transgression, make an end to sins [of the elect], to make reconciliation for iniquity [for the people Heb 2:17]

Dan 9:24 is the Gospel Truth in a Nutshell, of the Work of Christ and what it should accomplish for the People !

beloved57
May 7th, 2014, 03:44 AM
Rom 5:16

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

Justification here is stated as a Free Gift in light of our many offences, and it comes through the Person and work of Jesus Christ or His Blood for His Church, His Sheep.

For them, He shed His Blood to satisfy the sentence of the Law against them, The Law which they had broken, its punishment was Justly executed upon Him, as the Head of the Church, not for all men without exception ! This is being Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

The word for Justify here means acquitted , the greek word dikaioó:

I make righteous, defend the cause of, plead for the righteousness (innocence) of, acquit, justify; hence: I regard as righteous.

That word acquit means:

to relieve from a charge of fault or crime; declare not guilty:

Once the Lord Jesus Christ tasted death for all whom He died as Per Heb 1:9, it is stated this Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

That word purged is the word katharismos and it denotes among other things :

a cleansing from the guilt of sins

Thats an acquittal from them, which is Justification !

When Christ died for the sins of the Church, all for whom He died, by that alone, they were actually Justified Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Yes, the Free Gift here is that which is also referred to in Rom 5:16

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

Its Justification, or Acquittal from the guilt of sins they have committed. This is a Free Gift by Imputation to their Account because of Christ's Blood which cleansed them ! Heb 1:3 !

Back to Rom 5:18, the sentence of condemnation and death actually came upon the elect in Adam, their Federal and Natural Head, while they were yet not born, but when Adam sinned, they inherited being sinners and the corresponding nature and death !

But when Christ, the Second Adam on their behalf fulfilled the Law of God, and cleansed them from their sins by His Blood, they were actually Justified thereby, simply because the sentence of God was actually inflicted upon Him on their stead, hence all their sins were put away, as in Daniel its written Dan 9:24

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

As David knew Ps 103 :12

12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.= Justification !

By His Obedience for them, the law was Satisfied in FULL, and to confirm it, He was raised for their Justification or because of it Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Which confirms the Truth that they were Justifed by His Blood alone Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified/acquitted by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

So, Justification of this sort is not the result or consequences of ones faith, as an act of the creature, but soley a consequence of the Death of Christ, or His Blood, and God as Judge, adjudged all for whom Christ died unto Life, hence Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Its a Free Gift given by imputation without faith Rom 5:16

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

Nanja
May 7th, 2014, 08:06 AM
beloved

When Christ died for the sins of the Church, all for whom He died, by that alone, they were actually Justified Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


beloved

So, Justification of this sort is not the result or consequences of ones faith, as an act of the creature, but soley a consequence of the Death of Christ, or His Blood, and God as Judge, adjudged all for whom Christ died unto Life, hence Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Its a Free Gift given by imputation without faith Rom 5:16

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.


Thank you for pointing to these truths.

The Bible teaches that Faith is the fruit and gift of salvation
(Eph. 2:8; Gal. 5:22 KJV), not a tool one uses to get it.

I believe that any act of the creature in God's Work of Salvation
would render it a work, and then not solely by His Grace (Rom. 11:6).
And His saving Grace is discriminate, not for all men without exception,
but only for a tiny remnant, His Election of Grace: His Church.
That is the world Christ gave His Life for; the world of His Church (Eph. 5:25).

~~~~~

beloved57
May 7th, 2014, 09:25 AM
nanja


I believe that any act of the creature in God's Work of Salvation
would render it a work, and then not solely by His Grace (Rom. 11:6).
And His saving Grace is discriminate, not for all men without exception,
but only for a tiny remnant, His Election of Grace: His Church.
That is the world Christ gave His Life for; the world of His Church (Eph. 5:25).


Amen that is absolutely true !

beloved57
May 7th, 2014, 11:14 PM
Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Now the blessing Justification of life is a blessing given to all for whom Christ died, its God acting in the capacity of Judge, adjudging all for whom He died to Life, because all the sins of theirs has been charged to Christ; also because of that, Its True Num 23:21

21 He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the Lord his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them.

This is the equivalent of Ps 32:1-2

1Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.



2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

No where God does not impute sin, then obviously He does not impute death, but Life, for it is because of the wages of sin that we had death Rom 6:23a, but now all for whom Christ died, their sentence of death must be remitted, because their wage of sin was charged to Christ, of which God did execute His wrath and Justice upon Him for them, and as a result, Justification of Life is now owed to them ! God is under Covenant obligation to His Son to give them Life. Thats why Jesus says in Jn 3:7

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The word must, the verb dei :

I.it is necessary, there is need of, it behooves, is right and proper

Its only right and proper that all for whom Christ died and satisfied God's Law and Justice for, and that remitted the penalty of death for sin, its right and proper that they be given a New Life by New Birth !

Because Christ has died for their sins, death which is the penalty of sin, must be removed, which also means, Unbelief a symptom and consequence of death, caused by sin, must also be removed, The Spirit does both, He gives both Life and Faith to all for whom Christ died; also Justification does declare Righteous . The word for Justification in Rom 5:18 is the greek word dikaiōsis and means this:

I.
the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him

II.
abjuring to be righteous, justification

And this being made Righteous Rom 5:19b is revealed to Faith, to evidence to the Born Again Soul, so Faith is but the evidence to the soul of its Justification of Life !

Nanja
May 9th, 2014, 07:05 AM
Justification by Faith #2

Justification by Faith is in two senses, First and foremost Its Justification by the Faith / Faithfulness of Jesus Christ. For its by this Faith alone how The elect obtain Justification before God, by the Blood and obedience of Jesus Christ, for all whom He died in their place and stead..

Rom 5:9,18-19

9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Note, being Now Justified by His blood, not our Faith + His blood, thats a false Gospel, but by His blood..to whom is this True of ? Not only the roman believers, but to all the election of grace of all time..Thats who Justified by His blood..

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men[of all time] to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men [of all time] unto justification of life.

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Again no mention of our Faith as a securing means of Justification unto Life or being made righteous, but solely the obedience and righteousness of One Jesus Christ..

This constitutes the Faith / faithfulness of Jesus Christ..Therefore its written The Faith of Jesus Christ:

Gal 2:16,20

16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

In Faithfulness Jesus christ Loved the elect and gave himself for them..


Then in a secondary sense and premised on the First and foremost, the elect sinner is Justified consciously, by the regenerating work of the Holy Ghost, because of their previous justification by the work of Christ, they now have that revealed to them by God the Holy Ghost through the Gospel..but be careful not to confuse the receiving experientially the status of Justification before God with the experiential aspect of conscience Justification by the work of the Holy Ghost upon and in the already Justified before God sinner.. 1 Cor 6:11

[B]11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Now, though the work of the Holy Ghost is extremely Important and needed for the enjoyment of the work of Christ in the elects behalf, His blessed work should never be on the same level or above the Justifying work of the Son of God upon the cross..to do so leads to heresy and anti Christ teaching.

For it was not the Work of the Holy Ghost to die in the place of elect sinners for 1 Cor 15:3

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

This scripture teaches Christ died for our [the elect] sins, but not a word about the Holy Ghost dying for the sins of the elect.

Isa 53:6

6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him [Jesus Christ] the iniquity of us all.

Here, the iniquities of the elect were laid upon him [Jesus Christ] and not the Holy Ghost..

Rom 5: 9 declares Having been Justified [declared righteous] by the blood of Jesus Christ, but not a word about being Justified by the work of the Holy Ghost blood..

Finally Jesus states that the Holy Ghost will not speak of Himself [ draw attention to Himself] but should Glorify Him..Jn 16:13-14

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine [My accomplishment], and shall shew it unto you.

He shall receive of the finished accomplished Justification of Gods elect through Jesus Christ and on their behalf, and shew [ reveal] it to them..


To confuse or mix the Two types of Justification, Legal and experiential[conscious] is fatal..and will not go unpunished..and only those not taught by our Covenant God is at peril..


Excellent, edifying study! TY ☺

~~~~~

beloved57
May 9th, 2014, 07:56 AM
Excellent, edifying study! TY ☺

~~~~~

Its a blessing that God has opened up your understanding to receive His Truth !

beloved57
May 9th, 2014, 08:07 AM
Faith, or believing, the act of the creature [old or new] adds nothing to Justification before God, that fact was accomplished solely by Christ's Blood, however it does give Joy and Comforth in the Knowledge of the fact, Paul's meaning here Rom 15:13

Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

Note: Believing is through the Power of the Holy Ghost !

Yet Justification is a Divine Fact before we believe it, Faith causes us to believe the Fact of our free Justification, as it is made known in the Gospel Rom 1:17. Justification is our Righteousness, and is made known to the Spiritual eye of Faith, and so the Gospel is also called the word of Faith Rom 10:8,17 !

beloved57
May 10th, 2014, 02:59 PM
The OT Prophets/ Saints were Justified by Faith Righteousness [Righteousness revealed to Faith] just as the NT Apostles and Saints were Rom 3:21-22

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

This is that Faith Righteousness that most of the entire nation of israel did not have as per Rom 9:30-32

30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Now this Righteousness is witnessed to in the Law and the Prophets Rom 3:21,22

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

And it was foundationed in Christ Vs 22

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

That proves that the OT Saints had Faith in Christ's blood !

It was witnessed by who in the OT ? By Abraham Gen 15:6

6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness. God showed him Christ's day Jn 8:56

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Even before Abraham, Noah,for it is written of him Heb 11:7

7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

And before him Abel Heb 11:4

4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

This Righteousness as it is in the NT Rom 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

beloved57
May 13th, 2014, 04:11 PM
Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Now Justification by His Blood means at least these two things #1 They for whom He shed His Blood and Justified, they have been made Righteous ! The word Justified here in this verse is dikaioō and means:

I.
to render righteous or such he ought to be

II.
to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

III.
to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

All for whom He shed His Blood are by that declared Righteous, pronounced righteous !

And its not a result of faith or believing, but in His Blood ! It could read Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified in his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

The Justification is within the sphere of the Blood, not because of an act of the creature !

Its by the blood, that satisfied Law and Justice !

#2 They for whom The blood was shed for and Justified thereby are saved from wrath, because they are delivered from the penalty of sin ! All for whom Christ died are Justified in His Blood and have been delivered from the wrath to come as Per 1 Thess 1:10

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

See when He was raised from the dead after having died for THEIR OFFENCES, that Resurrection gave Evidecnce of all for whom He died, SHED HIS BLOOD for, it was evidence of their Justification from all their offences Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our[B] offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

So they have been delivered from the wrath that others are not delivered from for their offecnes as Eph 5:6

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

What things ? These things Eph 5:3-5

3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Those Christ died for, shed His blood for, have been saved by the blood, from wrath , which is against those things, and a lot more, this list is by no means exhaustive, but neverthess, all for whom Christ shed His Blood for, in His Blood they are delivered from the wrath to come !

beloved57
May 14th, 2014, 06:03 AM
Rom 3:24-25

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

The remission of sins that are past refers to Justification of the OT Saints, for they were Justified by His Blood before it was shed in time at Calvary, and they by the Spirit of God was given Faith inHis Blood for the remission of sins "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood"

Te OT Saints anticipated the coming of Christ to shed His Blood and satisfy God's Law and Justice, and so hence they had a proper understanding of the OT types and shadows by which God set Him forth to the eye of Faith. Thats what Jacob meant here Gen 49:10

The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

Thats what is meant here also Jn 11:50-52

50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

The Old Testament Saints, their sins too were to be remitted by the Blood here Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Both OT Saints and NT Saints found remission of sins in the Blood of Christ, and I believe that was what Jesus spoke with Moses and Elijah here Lk 9:29-31

29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

His decease would accomplish remission of sins ! That word accomplish is used in this context where remission of sins is to be preached Lk 24:44-47

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled/accomplished, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

So the OT Saints Like Moses and Elijah were Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9, and they were also declared Righteous by His Blood, Remember Abel Heb 11:4

4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Abel had been given Faith in the Blood of Christ, his offering reflected that and it showed he was Justified or Righteous because of it !

The word Justified in Rom 5:9 is the greek word dikaioō:

I.
to render righteous or such he ought to be

II.
to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

III.
to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

I make righteous, defend the cause of, plead for the righteousness (innocence) of, acquit, justify; hence: I regard as righteous.

All the OT Saints as well as NT Saints have been acquitted from all charges, guilt and punishment, penalty for their sins through and solely through the Blood of Christ

And none of this had anything to do with their act of faith, but all the credit must go to the Blood and Him who shed it !

beloved57
June 5th, 2014, 04:45 AM
1 Cor 15:17

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

If the resurrection of Christ didnt mean that those He died for are Justified from all their sins, then there would not have been any truth of Justification for Faith to receive and embrace, and faith would have been worthless, but the resurrection of Christ was a public exoneration that all those He died for are clear, of any accusation; free from guilt or blame before the Justice of God ! Rom 4:25

Who was delivered for our offences, [B]and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

The word Justification here is the greek word dikaiōsis and means:

I.
the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him

II.
abjuring to be righteous, justification

Thats why for anyone Christ died for and was raised in behalf of, for anyone to die in their sins and unbelief, God is guilty of injustice and punishing eternally a Righteous person free from guilt and supposedly acceptable to Him !

At His resurrection it was a deliverance from out of the prison of death, declaring that by His death He hath received full satisfaction or propitiation, for all those sins and offences that Christ as Surety Shepherd haid charged to Him, meaning all the sins of the Elect or His Sheep, for remember He rose from the dead as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

So it is only reasonable to conclude that He died as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Jn 10:11,15 ! So it was their sins that He was delivered for Rom 4:25;8:32 ! The resurrection of Christ means the Justification of all for whom He died !

beloved57
June 5th, 2014, 05:11 AM
Also Christ's resurrection as the Head of the Sheep Heb 13:20 was a portentous, and judicial act, whereby God the Father as the Supreme Judge did Justify His Son and those Chosen in Him [The Sheep] Him from all their sins laid upon Him or imputed, and them from their own sins, His Resurrection was an actual Justification for all whom He died as their Surety Head, not for any of His own sins personally was He vindicated, but for those sins and transgressions charged to Him by the Father,specifically those of His Sheep !

beloved57
June 5th, 2014, 05:53 AM
All for whom Christ died for, are by that death /blood alone Justified Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Or Him having been delivered for our offences Rom 4:25 ! This also means that they had to be also at the same time Righteous, simply because God could not justify any sinner without a perfect righteousness, which Perfect righteousness resides outside of the ungodly sinner; Nothing in the sinner or performed by the sinner constitutes this Perfect Righteousness the Justified sinner must have in order to be Justified, its soley and 100 % by the Obedience of Jesus Christ Rom 5:19b

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The word righteous here and justified in Rom 5:9 are the same word in the original !

beloved57
June 5th, 2014, 07:34 AM
Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

The words came upon means: happened as a result, meets on one, received on one !

Is Justification of life here for all those Christ died for ? More importantly does it apply to them before they exist, before they are believers ? The answer is yes indeed, no question about it, for the teaching here of Paul and the context demand it; For if the Justification of Life comes upon the Elect in the same manner as condemnation came upon them in Adam, as it is shown in this verse as well as throughout this Chapter 5 of Romans, then it is most reasonable and agreeable to sound judgment to conclude that Justification of Life was imputed, reckoned upon all the Elect before they had a physical being or existence, and even moreso, before they believed on Him.

Now this is true and evident that the sin of adam that called upon them condemnation, was before they had a being, or an existence, for Paul writes in the same Chapter and context Rom 5:12

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon or came upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Passed upon here means :"passed through unto all men so no one could escape its power "

Now here Paul is teaching by Divine Inspiration how and when sin entered into the world, and by that states Death passed upon all men ! Thats because, before they had any being, in him or in his loins all his seed had with him sinned even before they had being or existence !

Nanja
June 5th, 2014, 07:41 AM
Also Christ's resurrection as the Head of the Sheep Heb 13:20 was a portentous, and judicial act, whereby God the Father as the Supreme Judge did Justify His Son and those Chosen in Him [The Sheep] Him from all their sins laid upon Him or imputed, and them from their own sins, His Resurrection was an actual Justification for all whom He died as their Surety Head, not for any of His own sins personally was He vindicated, but for those sins and transgressions charged to Him by the Father,specifically those of His Sheep !

All the elect were in union with Christ before the foundation Eph. 1:4 KJV,
so because His obedience was perfect, His Righteousness was imputed to them also.
And this is true before any of them come to believe!

~~~~~

beloved57
June 5th, 2014, 07:47 AM
nanja


All the elect were in union with Christ before the foundation Eph. 1:4 KJV,

Yes that was an Legal Union established right there !


so because His obedience was perfect, His Righteousness was imputed to them also.

Yes, even before His Obedience took place in time, for with God all things are an present to Him !


And this is true before any of them come to believe!

yes, and even before they existed, save in the Mind and Purpose of God !

Nanja
June 5th, 2014, 07:50 AM
nanja



Yes that was an Legal Union established right there !



Yes, even before His Obedience took place in time, for with God all things are an present to Him !



yes, and even before they existed, save in the Mind and Purpose of God !


TY! Amen to all your points. ☺

~~~~~

beloved57
June 5th, 2014, 09:21 AM
Now here Paul is teaching by Divine Inspiration how and when sin entered into the world , and by that states Death passed upon all men Rom 5:12 ! Thats because, before they had any being, in him or in his loins all his seed had with him sinned even before they had being or existence !

Now this same biblical principle is taught when the writer of Hebrews stated that Levi paid tithes in Abraham because he was yet in his loins Heb 7:9-10

9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Many don't know it but Christ is the Everlasting Father of His Seed Isa 9:6

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Now the words payed tithes in Vs 9 is in the indicative mood and perfect tense, The indicative mood means:


a statement of fact or an actual occurrence from the writer's or speaker's perspective

And so those in Adam sinned in him when he sinned and were constituted sinners, before they had a physical being or existence, and before they acted sin from their own sin nature, because of God's Sovereign prerogative of Imputation !

So in Christ, the Elect Seed in Him, those chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4, were constituted Righteous or received Justification of Life, by His Obedience or by His Righteousness of One Rom 5:18, it also being imputed to them by God's Sovereign prerogative before they had any being or existence, and before they did any act of obedience, before they believed !

So to reject that those Christ died for have received Justification of Life before they existed or believed, you must reject the entire biblical testimony of Rom 5 !

Nanja
June 6th, 2014, 06:51 AM
beloved

Many don't know it but Christ is the Everlasting Father of His Seed Isa 9:6

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name

shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.




O Yes! Jesus Christ is Jehovah, The Eternal God and Saviour of His People!

Mat. 1:21-23 KJV And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS:
for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be
fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child,
and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us

.

Isaiah 62:12 LITV And they shall call them, The Holy People, the Redeemed of Jehovah.
And to you it shall be called, Sought Out, A City Not Forsaken.

Isaiah 43:11 LITV I, I am Jehovah; and there is no Savior besides Me.

Isaiah 45:15 LITV Truly, You are a God who hides Himself, O God of Israel, the Savior.

Isaiah 48:17 LITV So says Jehovah, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel,
I am Jehovah your God, who teaches you to profit, who leads you in the way you should go.

Isaiah 41:4 LITV Who has planned and done it, calling forth the generations from the beginning?
I Jehovah am the first and the last; I am He.

Rev. 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.


beloved

So in Christ, the Elect Seed in Him, those chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4, were constituted

Righteous or received Justification of Life, by His Obedience or by His Righteousness of One Rom 5:18, it also

being imputed to them by God's Sovereign prerogative before they had any being or existence, and before they did

any act of obedience, before they believed !


Amen!

~~~~~

beloved57
June 6th, 2014, 07:39 AM
beloved



O Yes! Jesus Christ is Jehovah, The Eternal God and Saviour of His People!

Mat. 1:21-23 KJV And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS:
for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be
fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child,
and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us

.

Isaiah 62:12 LITV And they shall call them, The Holy People, the Redeemed of Jehovah.
And to you it shall be called, Sought Out, A City Not Forsaken.

Isaiah 43:11 LITV I, I am Jehovah; and there is no Savior besides Me.

Isaiah 45:15 LITV Truly, You are a God who hides Himself, O God of Israel, the Savior.

Isaiah 48:17 LITV So says Jehovah, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel,
I am Jehovah your God, who teaches you to profit, who leads you in the way you should go.

Isaiah 41:4 LITV Who has planned and done it, calling forth the generations from the beginning?
I Jehovah am the first and the last; I am He.

Rev. 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.


beloved


Amen!

~~~~~

Those things cannot be received by the natural man !

beloved57
June 6th, 2014, 09:31 AM
We are said to be Justified by Faith in that, not because Faith effects ones Justification, but because it is effected /generated into the ones already yet Justified by Christ's Blood Rom 5:9,19 and its the result of the Sanctifying Work and Power of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Nanja
June 6th, 2014, 03:04 PM
We are said to be Justified by Faith in that, not because Faith effects ones Justification, but because it is effected /generated into the ones already yet Justified by Christ's Blood Rom 5:9,19 and its the result of the Sanctifying Work and Power of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:


Amen! The Just (Justified) shall live by Faith Rom. 1:17 KJV.
And as they grow in Grace 2 Peter 3:18 KJV, their Faith in Him grows much also (from faith to faith):
It's a revealing to them of who they are in Christ, as they grow in the knowledge of Him.
And many blessings follow!

1 John 5:20 KJV And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding,
that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ.
This is the true God, and eternal life.

~~~~~

beloved57
June 6th, 2014, 03:09 PM
Yes, our progressive Sanctification is that we grow in understanding just how complete and perfect it is because of His offering Heb 10:10-14 !

Posted from the TOL App!

Nanja
June 6th, 2014, 03:33 PM
Yes, our progressive Sanctification is that we grow in understanding just how complete and perfect it is because of His offering Heb 10:10-14 !

Posted from the TOL App!


That's for sure!

~~~~~

beloved57
June 15th, 2014, 02:50 AM
The Justification that all men have who Christ died for, and that without them doing anything, they have it even while they are His Enemies Rom 5:10, it consists in forgiveness of sins Eph 1:7, which does correlate with non imputation of sin Rom 4:7-8, whereby the sins forgiven are never charged to their account against them, it also denotes God accepting them into His Divine Favor as being Just, Righteous, and accepts them as if they have never sinned; and again this is before they believe or obey the Gospel !

Nanja
June 15th, 2014, 06:40 AM
The Justification that all men have who Christ died for, and that without them doing anything, they have it even while they are His Enemies Rom 5:10, it consists in forgiveness of sins Eph 1:7, which does correlate with non imputation of sin Rom 4:7-8, whereby the sins forgiven are never charged to their account against them, it also denotes God accepting them into His Divine Favor as being Just, Righteous, and accepts them as if they have never sinned; and again this is before they believe or obey the Gospel !


Amen! They are the ones given to Christ by the Father John 6:37 KJV,
and have been made Righteous passively, before the foundation of the world 2 Tim. 1:9 KJV
through the work of Christ Jesus their Surety and Covenant Head.

Col. 1:12-14 KJV Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet
to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us
from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins

Christ is the Everlasting Father of His Seed!

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder:
and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

~~~~~

beloved57
June 15th, 2014, 06:43 AM
Amen! They are the ones given to Christ by the Father John 6:37 KJV,
and have been made Righteous passively, before the foundation of the world 2 Tim. 1:9 KJV
through the work of Christ Jesus their Surety and Covenant Head.

Col. 1:12-14 KJV Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet
to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us
from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins

Christ is the Everlasting Father of His Seed!

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder:
and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

~~~~~

Amen, God has blessed you to believe and receive these truths !

Posted from the TOL App!

Nanja
June 15th, 2014, 06:56 AM
Amen, God has blessed you to believe and receive these truths !

Posted from the TOL App!

He has; and you also!

"I will praise thee, O LORD, with my whole heart; I will shew forth all thy marvellous works." Psalm 9:1 KJV

~~~~~

beloved57
June 16th, 2014, 07:15 AM
Everyone Christ died for is by His death/blood alone Justified in the sight of God Rom 5:9,19 even though they are not yet Justified by Faith. You see one whom Christ died for does not need to be Justified by Faith in order to be Justified before God or in His sight, for to be Justified by faith is only to benefit the Justifed one in knowing of his or her Justification before God, for it is only a necessary consequence of having been Justified before God by the sole obedience of Christ Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Here made Righteous and Justification are the same !

beloved57
June 16th, 2014, 08:40 AM
What is, for those Christ died for, what is the time of their Justification before God ?

For those Christ died for, they are Justified before God, when God see's and accepts Christ's blood for the full satisfaction of all their sins against His Law and Justice; for that ransom blood shed for them did set them free from the curse of the Law Gal 3:13 and did purge them from al guilt of their sins Heb 1:3 and presents them for Christ's blood sake, blameless, unreprovable in His sight Col 1:21-22

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

And these results are are solely done by HIMSELF Heb 1:3, through the body of His Flesh,

No other causes of collaboration were needed or used to bring about these blessed and merciful results !

beloved57
June 16th, 2014, 11:30 AM
Before those Christ died for ever believe a thing, and while they are by nature children of wrath Eph 2:3 Yet in the Knowledge of God, those for whom He died were Justified before God, when within Himself He had already determined not to impute sin unto them, that it should be imputed to Christ and that He should die for their sins, and so it is revealed in the word of reconciliation 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ [In the Eternal Purpose Eph 3:11], reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

By this, God in His Mind had determined ages and ages ago, from everlasting, to inflict Eternal Vengeance and Justice for their sins on Christ, but not only that, He correlatively determined to accept them as Righteous, having bestowed upon them or clothed them with the Righteousness of His Son, so is the implication of 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

All these known Transactions where known and affirmed in the Mind of God from before the foundation Acts 15:18

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Ps 33:11

11 The counsel of the Lord standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.

Would not these things be considered the Thoughts [intentions, purposes, designs] of His Heart ? When would have these thoughts originated in the Mind of the Eternal One ?

Isa 14:24

The Lord of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:

beloved57
June 16th, 2014, 03:44 PM
Justification is simply by the will of God; some things are so simply because its the Will of God to be so; Paul wrote at times 2 Cor 1:1

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

Eph 1:1

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Col 1:1

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,

2 Tim 1:1

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

And since we know that it is God who Justifieth Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Then those whom He Justifieth are so according to His Will; Now in this Will of God, it has been from before the world began, and His Will not to punish the Elect for their sins, this must be because in His Eternal Purpose in Christ, He was appointed by the Will of God to die for their sins from before the foundation 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

The fact that He was foreordained before the foundation, makes manifest God's Will before the foundation !

Christ according to the will of God in the Eternal Purpose was slain already for their sins Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

By His will He redeemed them from the curse of the Law Gal 3:13 and from its punishment.

By this decretive will alone, those Christ should die for are in the Mind and Will of God Justified from all punishment and wrath 1 Thess 1:10 due to their sins, beginning in adam their natural federal head;

God's absolute will not to punish them Christ in time would die for, is the essence of Him Justifying them in His Own Mind; This is True because that which was in God's Mind to secure the Elect from His Wrath, in that they were discharged from their sins and punishment due, can rightly be called Justification before God !

beloved57
June 18th, 2014, 11:03 PM
Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Justification by the blood of Christ, has secured from Divine wrath, all for whom Christ died. This security from the wrath of God has nothing to do with mans faith, or repentance, but it is solely an accomplisment of the Blood of Christ; All for He died have been delivered from the wrath to come at the day of Judgment 1 Thess 1:10

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Job 21:30

30 That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

Rev 6:17

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Rev 11:18

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Back up in 1 Thess 1:10 it reads with the definite article" The Wrath" its the Last Day of wrath commencing Judgement Day ! All for whom Christ died has been delivered from this wrath !

beloved57
June 23rd, 2014, 04:28 PM
Isa 45:25

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

Justification in Christ the LORD was only promised to one particular people, Israel or the Seed of Israel !

These verses all apply to the Seed of Israel !

Rom 3:24

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus [The Lord]:

Rom 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Rom 5:9

Much more then, being now justified by his blood[The Lord], we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Rom 8:30

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

This is the Seed of Israel. Paul calls them a Seed here Rom 4:16

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

What Seed ? What Promise ? This Seed and Promise Isa 45:25

In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

beloved57
June 25th, 2014, 10:25 PM
When scripture states that believers are Justified by Faith or made Righteous by Faith, it does not mean that their act of faith/ believing made them Justified and or Righteous, or that the act itself is their Righteousness , however it doeth mean that the object of our Faith, Namely Christ, hath Justified us and made us Righteous. You see, God hath made Christ unto us Righteousness 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

So therefore faith in its act cannot at the same time be our Righteousness Rom 4:5,9

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

In fact, The Gospel reveals or makes known our Righteousness to our Faith Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Now that Righteousness of God in Vs 17 that is revealed to Faith, is that same Righteousness of God for those of us Christ was made sin for in 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

So its an contradiction to understand Faith as an act of ours, to be reckoned as our Righteousness and or Justification, but rather as it persuades us that the object of our Faith, whom is Christ, has been made unto us Righteousness / Justification 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

beloved57
June 26th, 2014, 07:58 AM
Again,

When scripture states that believers are Justified by Faith or made Righteous by Faith, it does not mean that their act of faith/ believing made them Justified and or Righteous, or that the act itself is their Righteousness , however it doeth mean that the object of our Faith, Namely Christ, hath Justified us and made us Righteous.

You see, if Faith be not taken to mean its object being our Righteousness instead of our act of it being our Righteousness as the antichrist followers sayeth it means, then the very grounds for contrasting Justification by Faith from Justification by our works is eliminated and comes to nought, and even Paul has contradicted himself along with the scripture, in that Faith / believing is an act of ours, and no less a work we do !

So Faith looks at the object which is our Righteousness, that being the results of the Person and Work of Christ on our behalf, having satisfied for us all of God's Law and Justice and having had His Righteousness laid to our charge , these facts being revealed in the Gospel of our Salvation Rom 1:16-17; Eph 1:13 !

beloved57
June 30th, 2014, 04:05 AM
Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

The word freely here, the greek word dōrean:

I.freely, undeservedly,without a cause, or without a reason, or without a consideration, without an condition !

Those Christ died for are Justified freely and without any conditions on their part. Now if we say that man is required to believe [something he does] to act faith, or any other type of gospel obedience to be Justified before God, then that nullifies being Justified freely by God's Grace, on the sole condition of Christ's redemptive work. Once we admit faith or something else of any gospel obedience we do, then we have just made Justification a matter of debt owed us , and hath forfieted any claims to Justification freely by Grace, it has now become something due unto us because we met a precondition of some sort, so then it is no longer a matter of Justification freely by Grace !

beloved57
June 30th, 2014, 04:19 AM
Those who teach that they are Justified before God, based on their act of faith, obedience or some kind of condition performed, they are in essence claiming more responsibility for their Justification than God had, for according to their reasoning, all that God did through Christ still left them in a unjustified state, but what they did in performing the condition and as an supplement, is what actually Justified them before God !

beloved57
June 30th, 2014, 11:13 AM
Col 2:13

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

This scripture speaks to Justification before faith or believing ! All for whom Christ died, dying for their sins /offences that had been charged unto Him, Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

The word trespasses and offences are the same word from the original paraptōma:

I.
to fall beside or near something

II.
a lapse or deviation from truth and uprightness
A.
a sin, misdeed

So to be included is the orginal trespass in Adam, as Man in him was made upright Ecc 7:29

29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man['adam ] upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

That it includes Adam's sin also is seen here Rom 5:15

But not as the offence , so also is the free gift. For if [B]through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

And so He died as their Surety and Represenative, and when He arose, He rose as the same, as their Surety and represenative, so much so that its said / written that they arose with Him, or they were quickened together with Him ! Peter wrote of His resurrection 1 Pet 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Its a quickening, and the same word is used in Col 2:13 just with the prep syn which means " with"

So when He was quickened from the dead as our Surety Head, those He represented were quickened together from the dead with Him , and so in Rom 4:25 it is stated clearly that He was quicken / raised for /because of their Justification !

Now the word Justification, the greek word dikaiōsis means:

I.
the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him

II.
abjuring to be righteous, justification

Which is an equivalent to forgiven Col 2:13 ! Rom 4:25 can say as well this:

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again because we have been forgiven of those offences !

So Christ's being risen from the dead is an evidence and proof positive of that, and the death that was due to our sins Rom 6:23, has been put away, abolished, and so constituting the forgiveness of our sins; so the resurrection of Christ is evidence that all for whom He died are forgiven/ Justified before they believe ! To deny this is to deny the very evidence of the resurrection, which is unbelief ! No one can be a believer and deny the resurrection and what it evidences as the accomplishment of Christ's death !

beloved57
August 14th, 2014, 09:21 AM
That those Christ died for dont have to believe, obey, or repent, in fact do anything in order to be Justified from all sin and pronounced Righteous before God, that Truth is seen in Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

And was raised again for or because of our Justification. Who are the Our here ? The Our is all for whom He was delivered for their or because of their offences !

Now in the text they are said to be Justified when Christ rose for their Justification ! Now did He raise for my Justifcation before I believed ? Wonder if one that comes to believe on Him did so in 1981, did Christ raise from the dead for their Justifcation before 1981 ? Of course He did ! Now the word Justification here is the greek word dikaiósis and means:

acquittal, justifying, justification, a process of absolution.

emphasizing Christ's full payment of the debt for sin which liberates the believer[or the one Christ died for] from all divine condemnation.

The origin of the word dikaiósis is the word dikaioó:

the act of pronouncing righteous, acquittal

So the word carries both meanings, acquittal and the pronouncing of Righteous.

So all for whom He died and rose again for are both acquitted and pronounced Righteous before God, before they believe a thing, or even before they even know about it, it will be a Gospel revelation to them Rom 1:16-17. However, it was a fact before the Gospel revelation, and so their coming to believe it had absolutely nothing to do with it, for the fact were a reality[before God because of Christ] before they were even born sinners ! This is a Truth the antichrist followers cannot receive !

beloved57
August 19th, 2014, 06:27 AM
Even though false religionists dont believe it, wont accept it, nevertheless it must be preached, but only those who have been Justifed, by the Merites of Christ's blood shed for them, do and can believe ! The reason why the masses of people dont believe and will not believe on Christ, its simply this ,They cannot because they were never of His Sheep Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

So they cannot believe Jn 12:37-39

37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not

38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

God gives only them Christ actually died for the ability to believe on Him, for His sake Phil 1:29, those only for whom He suffered and died, and by that, did satisfy all His Law and Justice FOR THEM ! All for whom He died He made them declared Righteous Rom 5:18-19

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

And to them this Righteousness and Justification of Life is revealed to God given Faith Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Understand, The Gospel makes known to them that Christ died for, the results of His death, Righteousness to them and or Justification of Life, For they had been freely Justified by His Grace through the Redemption [its efficacious value] that is ni Christ Jesus Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

beloved57
August 19th, 2014, 01:46 PM
Again, the point being made here is that only those already Justified believe as an evidence of the fact !

Now the word Justified in Rom 3:24

Being justified freely [without conditions by us] by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Its the greek word dikaioō:

I.
to render righteous or such he ought to be

II.
to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

III.
to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

As we can see, one of its fundamental meanings is to render Righteous, to regard as Righteous, so its very appropriate to translate the verse as follows Rom 3:24

Being made Righteous freely by his grace through dia [B]the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Yes, by that fact alone, not because of their Faith, or Repentance, or Calling on the Name of the Lord, but solely and completely by His Blood. Now understand, all such ones, shall have their Free Gift of Righteousness and acquittal made known to them, or revealed to them, by a Powerful persuasion of the Gospel as the Power of God in the Hand of the Spirit, by this powerful persuasion they do believe, and so it is, all that come to believe by the Power of the Gospel, had been Justifed from all things, and of course all who never come to believe by Spiritual persuasion, its simply because they were not of the Sheepfold Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

And so they never had the Right to believe, nor the ability Jn 12:37-39

37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:

38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

And they were never Justified from all things !

beloved57
August 22nd, 2014, 11:13 PM
Anyone Christ died for is a Justified person, because through Christ Christ's death for him or her, they have been discharged, acquitted of all guilt and sin before God's Law and Justice, Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Listen, all for whom He died, He purged their sins and then sat down at the Right Hand of the Majesty on High, God !

The word purged is the greek word katharismos and it does mean:

C.a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

They have been cleansed from the penalty and guilt of their sins, they have been made clean. They have been discharged , declared not guilty, and neither shall any charges ever be laid to their account, they are these Rom 4:8

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

No, not now, not never, being that Christ has taken away the guilt and penalty of it forever !

beloved57
September 16th, 2014, 02:08 AM
Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

One of the most popular and damnable heresies in false antichrist religion is that Faith, which pleases God Heb 11:6 is a condition for man to do, to act before God does Justify him; BUT thats a lie against the Truth and against God's Grace, the fact is, those for whom Christ died are Justified /made righteous by that single act of His alone Rom 5:19 and that while they are in themselves still being ungodly, even enemies Rom 5:10 !

Justifying the ungodly is in the present tense and ungody is preceded by the definite article :

τῷ δὲ μὴ ἐργαζομένῳ πιστεύοντι δὲ ἐπὶ τὸν δικαιοῦντα τὸν ἀσεβῆ λογίζεται ἡ πίστις αὐτοῦ εἰς δικαιοσύνην

This means they were being counted as Justified/made Righteous while they were the ungodly ! That word ungodly means :

I.destitute of reverential awe towards God, condemning God, impious

Remember earlier Paul wrote of the state of the natural man by nature Rom 3:18

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Yes, while those whom Christ died are in that ungodly state, they are being Justified, hence , God hath because of Christ Justified the ungodly !

You see one cannot act faith in Christ, which act pleases God, and that be the cause of God Justifying them, when one is Justified while being ungodly, and a ungodly person cannot and does not please God with one single act of theirs !

That thought in fact is negated at the very start with Paul's statement "But to him that worketh not" which can be rendered also "But to the one not yet acting"

This again denotes being Justified without any act of theirs being done or considered !

beloved57
September 16th, 2014, 02:43 AM
It would be totally contrary to Justifciation by Grace Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Neither would it be freely, if it Justification, if its conditioned upon faith, for then it would make that a condition which is also required by the Law, for it is written Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Who can deny that Jesus here specifically Identifies Faith as one of the weightier matters of the Law ? And that its something done !

So for those of you that teach Justification before God by mans faith, you are teaching Justification by doing one of the weightier matters of the Law and there is no escaping that conclusion, and so must be in contradiction of Rom 3:20

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin , as well as contradicting Justification by Grace !

beloved57
September 19th, 2014, 10:38 PM
Those Christ died for are forgiven of sins before they believe, and while they are enemies, and the reason for this blessedness Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

The reason for this blessedness is that aforetime, God had laid or caused to meet their sins upon Christ Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

And by this Divine Act of imputation, all those persons whom sins, iniquties had been laid upon Him, they received from God the Judge of all men, acquittal and discharge from them, or they were Justified from them ! Now when did this happen ? When did God lay their sins upon Him ? Well if we look at our text Isa 53:6, the deed was done in the past tense, though His coming to die was yet future from the time of the writing, for it was the Eternal Purpose of God that made the act eternally accomplished, so much so that He was slain from the foundation Rev 13:8 ! Slain for what ? For the sins laid upon upon Him Isa 53:6 !

beloved57
October 10th, 2014, 01:07 PM
Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Whomever the Us all here is, whose iniquties were laid [caused to light upon] on Him [Christ], hence by that Nothing can be charged to them, they are absolutely acquitted/absolved :

to free from guilt or blame or their consequences:

The y are Justified from all the consequences of their sins, which unbelief is an consequence See Rom 11:32 !

This their acquittal is also confirmed from Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

That word purged means:

C.a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

Thats acquittal from the guilt of sin :

the fact or state of having committed an offense, crime, violation, or wrong, especially against moral or penal law; culpability:

Now this came about by nothing else but the Death of Christ BY HIMSELF !

No, those He died for do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners, the Truth of it remains a Sacred Fact !

Nothing can be laid to their Charge, not even from God , because by Christ's Death, God is the One that Justified them , cleanse them from the guilt of sin Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

That is all for whom He died and rose again have been by God Justified, acquitted because He laid their iniquties upon Him. Paul also calls it their offences Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

25 Who was betrayed and put to death because of our misdeeds and was raised to secure our justification (our acquittal), [making our account balance and absolving us from all guilt before God].AMP

beloved57
October 10th, 2014, 02:24 PM
Those of Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Listen, none of the Us all here, the same Us all in Rom 8:32-33

He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Nothing can be Laid to their charge, which are God's Elect.

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

That word charged is the greek word egkaleō and means to accuse, to call into account.

Now to accuse or charge someone with something is to be able to legally and legitimately find fault, wrongdoing , transgression.

For instance, if in light of Christ having the Elect's iniquity laid upon Him, if they after that could stilll be charged with unbelief, then as unbelievers Rom 8:33 cannot apply to them, and if that is so, Isa 53:6 cannot apply neither, because unbelief is a iniquity, a wrongdoing, a wicked evil doing, this we know by Heb 3:12

12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Unbelief is morally and ethically wrong ! Its iniquity a violation of right or duty; wicked act; sin.

Now if Unbelief is Evil, its iniquitous, and if it was not layed on Christ as Per Isa 53:6

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Then all of those of Isa 53:6, the Us all, did not have all their iniquties layed upon Him, which makes a False Gospel to proclaim, and it makes the evil of unbelief a charge that can be laid upon them in Isa 53:6 and also Rom 8:32-33, which would destroy their credibility !

beloved57
October 13th, 2014, 02:40 PM
Now if Unbelief is Evil, its iniquitous, and if it was not layed on Christ as Per Isa 53:6

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Then all of those of Isa 53:6, the Us all, did not have all their iniquties layed upon Him, which makes a False Gospel to proclaim, and it makes the evil of unbelief a charge that can be laid upon them in Isa 53:6 and also Rom 8:32-33, which would destroy their credibility !

Also, If Unbelief was not laid to the charge of Christ when the the Lord Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

That word iniquity avon :

I.perversity, depravity, iniquity, guilt or punishment of iniquity
A.
iniquity

B.
guilt of iniquity, guilt (as great), guilt (of condition)

C.
consequence of or punishment for iniquity

That word peversity means:


willfully determined or disposed to go counter to what is expected or desired; contrary.

2.
characterized by or proceeding from such a determination or disposition:
"a perverse mood."

3.
wayward or cantankerous.

4.
persistent or obstinate in what is wrong.

5.
turned away from or rejecting what is right, good, or proper; wicked or corrupt.

Thats actually what happened in Adam, man went into perversity,he turned away as in Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Which constitutes Unbelief. Now if Unbelief was not laid upon Christ as an Iniquity, that means the very first sin of Adam Christ did not die for, again the very first sin was an Act of Apostacy.

Peter quotes this verse here 1 Pet 2:25

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Gone astray planaō :


I.
to cause to stray, to lead astray, lead aside from the right way
A.
to go astray, wander, roam about


II.
metaph.
A.
to lead away from the truth, to lead into error, to deceive

B.
to be led into error

C.
to be led aside from the path of virtue, to go astray, sin

D.
to sever or fall away from the truth
i.
of heretics


E.
to be led away into error and sin


And the Unbelief of Heb 3:12

12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.


This is basically the sin that Eve committed, being led astray by the devil into unbelief See 2 Cor 11:3 !

Now if Laying our iniquties on Christ did not include the initial sin of unbelief, then Christ did not die for it, and it can be Justly charged to God's Elect that He did die for, and it made Adams sin unpardonable by the death of Christ, which contradicts the teachings of Paul here Rom 5:15-17



15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ )

Finally, If Christ's Death did not deal with unbelief, then that means that the one sin He did not die for, man must overcome it by his freewill and secure his own Salvation, something he did and not what Christ did, since as its falsely taught, Christ did not die for it !

beloved57
October 14th, 2014, 04:42 AM
Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

The words " laid on Him " are interesting, the word lay paga:

to meet, encounter, reach

fall,cause to light upon

John Gill on this verse writes and I agree with


and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all; that is, God the Father, against whom we have sinned, from whom we have turned, and whose justice must be satisfied; he has laid on Christ, his own Son, the sins of all his elect ones; which are as it were collected together, and made one bundle and burden of, and therefore expressed in the singular number, "iniquity", and laid on Christ, and were bore by him, even all the sins of all God's elect; a heavy burden this! which none but the mighty God could bear; this was typified by laying of hands, and laying of sins upon the sacrifice, and putting the iniquities of Israel upon the head of the scapegoat, by whom they were bore, and carried away. The words may be rendered, "he made to meet upon him the iniquity of us all" (r); the elect of God, as they live in every part of the world, their sins are represented as coming from all quarters, east, west, north, and south; and as meeting in Christ, as they did, when he suffered as their representative on the cross: or "he made to rush, or fall upon him the iniquity of us all" (s); our sins, like a large and mighty army, beset him around, and fell upon him in a hostile manner, and were the cause of his death; by which means the law and justice of God had full satisfaction, and our recovery from ruin and destruction is procured, which otherwise must have been the consequence of turning to our own ways; so the ancient Jews understood this of the Messiah

Yet I want to know when did God first lay the iniquities of those Christ died for upon Him ?

Also when God did it, who became Legally liable for those iniquities ?

Liable means responsible,accountable !

Were those whom the iniquties belonged to now be responsible for them after God laid them upon Christ for them ? Can they ever be called into account for them ? See Rom 8:33-34 !

Well understand this, to lay iniquity upon Christ is solely a work of God, who would argue this ? And what does the scripture teach about God's Works ? Acts 15:18

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

This work of laying our iniquties upon Christ is no exception ! In fact in the Purpose of God which is Eternal, Those iniquties had already been laid on Christ, or else how could it be written by Peter this 1 Pet 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Clearly this states that the redeeming Blood of Christ was foreordained before the foundation,

Also John writes Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Slain for what ? Why for our iniquities ! At the Least we know that God had already determined who was liable for the iniquties of those whom in the time state He would be slain for Acts 2:23

Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

I Think we have established at least when Christ became accountable for the iniquities that were laid on Him, it was from the foundation of the world or before the foundation of the world 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Now since Christ became Liable for them that Early, they are also Discharged from them that Early !

Discharged means :

to relieve of a charge or load; unload:

to relieve of obligation, responsibility

They were not any Longer responsible or accountable for their iniquties, because God had made Christ accountable for them.

Thats why Paul could preach of those to whom it applies 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

That world in 2 Cor 5:19 is a unbelieving world that is discharged of all its iniquities and transgressions, or trespasses against God.

That fact alone should keep any honest heart from concluding that the World in 2 Cor 5:19 is all individuals without exception, since we know many shall die in their sins Jn 8:24 which is impossible if they have been discharged from them !

If they were Laid on Christ, then they were discharged of them, simple as that ! And God will not impute sin unto them ever Rom 4:8

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

If He ever did, He becomes mutable !

beloved57
October 17th, 2014, 11:06 PM
Those whom God laid their iniquities upon Christ, not only did He lay their punishment unto Him, but the very iniquties themselves, by imputation Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

This was such a thorough laying on, so that it was said that He was made Sin 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

He became the sinner, but by Imputation, and now because of this, no matter what, those sinners stand acquitted and absolved of all sin and unrighteousness before God ! And this is before they believe and while they are yet being ungodly, because it had nothing to do with what they did or did not do, but solely upon what Christ has done for them !

Nanja
October 18th, 2014, 08:07 AM
Those whom God laid their iniquities upon Christ, not only did He lay their punishment unto Him, but the very iniquties themselves, by imputation Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

This was such a thorough laying on, so that it was said that He was made Sin 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

He became the sinner, but by Imputation, and now because of this, no matter what, those sinners stand acquitted and absolved of all sin and unrighteousness before God ! And this is before they believe and while they are yet being ungodly, because it had nothing to do with what they did or did not do, but solely upon what Christ has done for them !




Yes. Christ promised to give His Sheep eternal life John 10:28, making His soul
an offering for sin for them Is. 53:10. They are the many He made righteous Rom. 5:19.

Even though these Elect ones are ungodly and by nature children of wrath as others Eph. 2:3, Rom. 5:6
yet because they were the Chosen Seed in Christ Eph. 1:4; 2 Tim. 1:9, His workmanship, created in Him Eph 2:10;
they have been exonerated through His death. And all by the riches of His Grace Eph. 1:7; Eph 2:8-9.
Not by even the slightest human effort at all !

~~~~~

beloved57
October 18th, 2014, 08:10 AM
Yes. Christ promised to give His Sheep eternal life John 10:28, making His soul
an offering for sin for them Is. 53:10. They are the many He made righteous Rom. 5:19.

Even though these Elect ones are ungodly and by nature children of wrath as others Eph. 2:3, Rom. 5:6
yet because they were the Chosen Seed in Christ Eph. 1:4; 2 Tim. 1:9, His workmanship, created in Him Eph 2:10;
they have been exonerated through His death. And all by the riches of His Grace Eph. 1:7; Eph 2:8-9.
Not by even the slightest human effort at all !

~~~~~

Amen, may we continue to rejoice in Truth !

Nanja
October 18th, 2014, 08:16 AM
Amen, may we continue to rejoice in Truth !


And what a Great Blessing it is to do so!

~~~~~

beloved57
October 18th, 2014, 10:52 AM
And what a Great Blessing it is to do so!

~~~~~

You can see that God has few of us, probably more of us in non American countries that doesn't speak English !

Nanja
October 18th, 2014, 02:10 PM
You can see that God has few of us, probably more of us in non American countries that doesn't speak English !


Yeah, it seems that there is only a very small remnant of the Election living on
Earth during this time, and that God has purposefully scattered them very well.

~~~~~

beloved57
October 18th, 2014, 02:52 PM
Yeah, it seems that there is only a very small remnant of the Election living on
Earth during this time, and that God has purposefully scattered them very well.

~~~~~

Amen !

beloved57
November 2nd, 2014, 04:19 PM
Justified by His Death apart from our believing it and the Resurrection of Christ from the dead after having died for our sins proves it ! One of the biggect lies in antichrist false religion, it is the distortion of the Blessed Gospel Doctrine of Justification by Faith, not because its not true, but because the distorters of this Truth deceitfully neglect that there is a Justification of the sinners Christ died for before they are Justified by Faith, and has nothing to do with their faith or believing it; which Justification also imutes to them Righteousness,as it is stated here Rom 4:6

Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Imputeth Righteousness without works ! That word works is the greek word ergon and means:


I.business, employment, that which any one is occupied

A.that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking



II.any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind


III.an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

So this Righteousness was imputed to them without any act, deed, thing done by them, not even with their mind !

In fact this Righteousness is charged to the account of every sinner Christ died for Rom 5:8 before they are born into this world a sinner as well as before they repent and believe the Gospel; This is to say that this Righteousness / Justification had been applied to their account and persons even while they are in reality and actively being sinners, ungodly, and enemies ; and the reason why we know this to be True is because when Christ was raised from the dead, after having been delivered to death for their their sins laid to His charge, upon rising from the dead , it was because God reckoned THEM Justified before Him, Which scripture testifies to here Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

The AMP reads :

25 Who was betrayed and put to death because of our misdeeds and was raised to secure our justification (our acquittal), [making our account balance and absolving us from all guilt before God].

The NASB reads:

25 He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.

beloved57
November 3rd, 2014, 04:04 AM
Yes He was raised again because of their Justification, in other words, His Justifcation from their sins and death on their behalf was theirs, since it was their wage of death and sins He died for in the first place, so why would not His Justifcation be theirs also , and so the Spirit of Prophecy regarding Christ says Isa 50:4-9

4 The Lord God hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned.

5 The Lord God hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back.

6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.

7 For the Lord God will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed.

8 He is near that justifieth me; who will contend with me? let us stand together: who is mine adversary? let him come near to me.

9 Behold, the Lord God will help me; who is he that shall condemn me? lo, they all shall wax old as a garment; the moth shall eat them up.

John Gill says of Vs 8-9:


He is near that justifieth me,.... His Father was "near" him in his whole state of humiliation; he left him not alone; he was at his right hand, and therefore he was not moved; and "justified" him from all the calumnies of his enemies, or the false charges they brought against him, and from all the sins of his people that were upon him; these he took upon him, and bore them, and made satisfaction for them, upon which he was acquitted; and which is evident by his resurrection from the dead, by his ascension to heaven, and session at the right hand of God; and by the gifts of the Spirit, extraordinary and ordinary, he received for men, and gave unto them; see 1 Timothy 3:16.

Who will contend with me? being thus acquitted; will the law and justice of God litigate the point with him? they are both satisfied; will Satan dispute the matter with him? he is foiled, conquered, and destroyed; or will the wicked Jews enter the argument with him? wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.


Yes Christ was raised again because of their Justification ! If we read Rom 4:25 in the NASB its:

25 He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.

Yes, thats why He was raised, because those for whom sins He was delivered had been acquitted of them, and that forever !

The YLT is enlightening as well :

25 who was delivered up because of our offences, and was raised up because of our being declared righteous.

Thats basically what Paul writes again here Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

That word made as in made righteous is the greek word kathistēmi and does mean :

C.to set down as, constitute, to declare, show to be

So in line with Rom 4:25, Rom 5:19 can read:

19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of One shall many be declared righteous.

Now, this proves that without a shadow of doubt, that Christ's Resurrection from the dead is proof positive that God reckons all those He died for as Righteous, Acquitted from all sin. His Resurrection proves they are not in their sins as stated here if His resurrection would not have occured 1 Cor 15:17

And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

See God given Faith believes that because of Christ's death, and resurrection, those He died for are not in their sins,His death having satisfied God's Law and Justice for them, but if they were not acquitted by His Death, and He did not raise from the dead, Faith has no promise to rely upon ! But the Truth of their acquittal was before their Faith to believe it was !

beloved57
November 3rd, 2014, 05:44 AM
The word Justification here in Rom 4:25 is the greek word dikaiōsis and means:


I.the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him


II.abjuring to be righteous, justification

It denotes the acquittal of all for whom Christ died, and abjuring or declaring them to be Righteous !

Its the same word used here too Rom 5:18

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification G1347 of life.

The All men here receive as a Free Gift of Justification of Life, and they did nothing but be sinners and rebellious, its a Gift bestowed upon them simply because of the Righteousness of ONE, The Life Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ !

By them being free from guilt, they have been released from all Divine Punishment. None of these in 2 Pet 2:9

The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Not one of them can be one for whom Christ died, it would be impossible, for that would overthrow the Throne of Truth !

All for whom He died have been abjured Righteous, Just, and it has been solely on the success of Christ's Death, and by that alone application of it has been made to their persons and account, even though its not yet known or realized by them.

Now finally, if we deny this Justification before Faith, We also deny the death of Christ for sin before ones Faith, and His resurrection from the dead before ones Faith, which is a terrible delusion to be found in, and at this point in world history, more than likely a fatal one !

Nanja
November 4th, 2014, 09:14 AM
The word Justification here in Rom 4:25 is the greek word dikaiōsis and means:


I.the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him


II.abjuring to be righteous, justification

It denotes the acquittal of all for whom Christ died, and abjuring or declaring them to be Righteous !

Its the same word used here too Rom 5:18

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification G1347 of life.

The All men here receive as a Free Gift of Justification of Life, and they did nothing but be sinners and rebellious, its a Gift bestowed upon them simply because of the Righteousness of ONE, The Life Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ !

By them being free from guilt, they have been released from all Divine Punishment. None of these in 2 Pet 2:9

The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Not one of them can be one for whom Christ died, it would be impossible, for that would overthrow the Throne of Truth !

All for whom He died have been abjured Righteous, Just, and it has been solely on the success of Christ's Death, and by that alone application of it has been made to their persons and account, even though its not yet known or realized by them.

Now finally, if we deny this Justification before Faith, We also deny the death of Christ for sin before ones Faith, and His resurrection from the dead before ones Faith, which is a terrible delusion to be found in, and at this point in world history, more than likely a fatal one !


TY for an excellent 3 part study on "Justified by His Death apart from our believing it".
May our Lord continue to shower you with His Blessings! ☺


These posts should dispel forever the lie that Christ died for all men without exception.
For scripture is clear that God has reserved an ungodly remnant which have no remission of their sins,
to be punished. It was His Will to deliberately create them that way, to be His vessels of wrath Rom. 9:22.

To deny this Justification before Faith, is the pride of man; his attempt to usurp the Sovereign Will of God
by some action or performance on his own part to acquire salvation.

Yes, I believe that we are so close to Judgment Day right now, that if one is currently under this delusion
that is most-likely where he or she will remain.

~~~~~

beloved57
November 4th, 2014, 09:47 AM
TY for an excellent 3 part study on "Justified by His Death apart from our believing it".
May our Lord continue to shower you with His Blessings! ☺


These posts should dispel forever the lie that Christ died for all men without exception.
For scripture is clear that God has reserved an ungodly remnant which have no remission of their sins,
to be punished. It was His Will to deliberately create them that way, to be His vessels of wrath Rom. 9:22.

To deny this Justification before Faith, is the pride of man; his attempt to usurp the Sovereign Will of God
by some action or performance on his own part to acquire salvation.

Yes, I believe that we are so close to Judgment Day right now, that if one is currently under this delusion
that is most-likely where he or she will remain.

~~~~~

Amen !

beloved57
November 16th, 2014, 03:39 AM
Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for/because of our justification.

Paul here reveals a profound Truth to believers that very few have the Grace to believe, and thats, all for whom Christ hath been delivered for or because of their sins, upon His Resurrection, the Free Gift of Justification has been applied to them, hence every sinner born into this world as His enemy, as a child of wrath by nature as others Eph 2:3, yet Christ has died for them and risen again for their Justification, they are born into this world discharged from every Sin, Transgression, Trespass, Offence they will ever commit in this world in their flesh through Adam; Their discharge has been APPLIED the milimeter second they enter this world by nature a child of wrath Eph 2:3, their Justification from all things is Just as Valid as Long as Christ Resurrection from the dead is Valid, which is forever, for it is written of Him following His Resurrection for them Rom 6:9

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

Understand, He being raised from the dead dieth no more, so they [whom He was raised for their Justification] can never be charged with any sins that brings forth death Rom 6:23, not even for sins they shall commit as children of wrath by nature as others !

Now this does not mean that they are in the flesh immune to feeling sinful, or confession of sin, for David was a Man who was Justified from all sin by non imputation, but did at times feel and confess his sinfulness Ps 32:1-5


Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

3 When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long.

4 For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.

5[B] I acknowledge my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.

However even with that, he and all for whom Christ died are Justified from and acquiited from any and all penalties of it, even from the penalty of unbelief, because ones unbelief and ignorance does not affect or reverse their Justification evidenced by His Resurrection, for its a valid immutable fact while they are unbelieves and enemies and ignorant to the fact of their Justification.

The Testimony of their acquittal by or because of Christ's Resurrection isny changed one iota because of ther unbelief, simply because their Justification is God's Faithfulness to His Son for His Work, not their faith, though it was His Work on their behalf ! The Mercy of Justification is showed to Christ, by applying it to His sinful Seed Ps 89:27-36


27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.

28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.

29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.

30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;

31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;

32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.

34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.

36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.

beloved57
December 2nd, 2014, 03:30 AM
Rom 3:28

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Rom 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Gal 2:16

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

To be Justified by Faith BEFORE GOD cannot mean and does not mean that a person is Justified BEFORE GOD by their own act of human faith or act of believing, simply because that would equate to being Justified by keeping the Law or by works man does !

Thats because Faith is a doing of the Law Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Faith is a weightier matter of the LAW that ought to have been DONE ! Thats a work, there is no escaping that !

The word done here , the greek word ποιέω (poieō) means works :

Matt 7:22

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done G4160 many wonderful works?

Matt 23:5

But all their works they do G4160 for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

So yes, ones own faith is works or doing the law, something required to have been done !

Now with this in mine, the only biblical and scriptural way for a person to be Justified by Faith apart from the deeds of the Law as in Rom 3:28

Therefore we conclude that [B]a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Is when Faith equates/is regards to Christ's Faith / Faithfulness ! See if it be our Faith, then our Law keeping Justified us before God, but if it is His Faith/Faithfulness, then that is what Justified us before God, take your pick , for it cannot be both ! Either the sinners Law Keeping Justified us before God, or the Saviours Law keeping Justified us before God, because Faith is a work of the Law Matt 23:23 !

beloved57
December 7th, 2014, 02:58 PM
Justification is the result of imputation, meaning that all for whom Christ died, since their sins had been charged /imputed to Him, or as The Prophet writes Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord has made to light upon Him the guilt and iniquity of us all.AMP

And as a result that is their Justification before God; However the result or fruit of that Justification is New Birth, Regeneration, or Quickening, to be Made Alive by the Spirit, which is an application/communication of that Resurrected Life we have in our Head, Christ making us alive based upon the Justification we have through His Blood, for Life is in the Blood, so Life is communicated to them on the basis of His Blood and Righteousness, which satisfied Law and Justice !

Nanja
December 7th, 2014, 06:42 PM
Justification is the result of imputation, meaning that all for whom Christ died, since their sins had been charged /imputed to Him, or as The Prophet writes Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord has made to light upon Him the guilt and iniquity of us all.AMP


All the Elect Sheep's sins were imputed to their Great Shepherd, Christ their Head and Surety:
The Lamb Slain, even before the foundation of the world Rev. 13:8 in the Purpose of God 2 Tim. 1:9.
His death alone for them John 10:11, 15, plus nothing, made them Righteous / Justified before God's
Law and Justice Rom. 5:19, because they were in Union with Him also before the foundation of the world Eph. 1:4-5.



And as a result that is their Justification before God; However the result or fruit of that Justification is New Birth, Regeneration, or Quickening, to be Made Alive by the Spirit, which is an application/communication of that Resurrected Life we have in our Head, Christ making us alive based upon the Justification we have through His Blood, for Life is in the Blood, so Life is communicated to them on the basis of His Blood and Righteousness, which satisfied Law and Justice !


Amen!

It's a revealing of the Righteousness of Christ imputed to those He died for.
They are given a profound Trust, a Spiritual communication and revealing
of the Work of Christ on their behalf, that they have complete forgiveness of sins
and reside in the Grace and Mercy of God everlastingly: a confirmation in their renewed mind that
they are a Son of God Gal. 4:6! This kind of faith is the fruit and a gift of the Spirit Gal. 5:22; Eph. 2:8.
Only then, as a result, are they able to deeply Love God as He commands:

Mat. 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God
with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

~~~~~

beloved57
December 8th, 2014, 01:49 AM
All the Elect Sheep's sins were imputed to their Great Shepherd, Christ their Head and Surety:
The Lamb Slain, even before the foundation of the world Rev. 13:8 in the Purpose of God 2 Tim. 1:9.
His death alone for them John 10:11, 15, plus nothing, made them Righteous / Justified before God's
Law and Justice Rom. 5:19, because they were in Union with Him also before the foundation of the world Eph. 1:4-5.





Amen!

It's a revealing of the Righteousness of Christ imputed to those He died for.
They are given a profound Trust, a Spiritual communication and revealing
of the Work of Christ on their behalf, that they have complete forgiveness of sins
and reside in the Grace and Mercy of God everlastingly: a confirmation in their renewed mind that
they are a Son of God Gal. 4:6! This kind of faith is the fruit and a gift of the Spirit Gal. 5:22; Eph. 2:8.
Only then, as a result, are they able to deeply Love God as He commands:

Mat. 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God
with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

~~~~~

Amen !