When does one become part of the body of Christ?

Samie

New member
Both Calvinists and Arminians believe that people are born in sin, hence, born NOT part of the body of Christ.

I believe people are born ALREADY part of the body of Christ, by God's grace.

But if NOT, as Calvinists and Arminians teach, then what must one do to become part of the body of Christ? If one has to do SOMETHING first - like believe, accept, repent - before he can become part of the body of Christ, then that's salvation by works.

Both Calvinists and Arminians have a lot of explaining to do. Please just dwell on the issue. No ad hominems, please.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
then that's salvation by works.

Salvation by works is not the same thing as works after salvation.

"For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels and then He will reward each according to his works." (Matthew 16:27)
 

Samie

New member
Salvation by works is not the same thing as works after salvation.

"For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels and then He will reward each according to his works." (Matthew 16:27)
Agree.

Do you likewise believe as I do that one is part of the body of Christ first before he can do any work?
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Both Calvinists and Arminians believe that people are born in sin, hence, born NOT part of the body of Christ.

I believe people are born ALREADY part of the body of Christ, by God's grace.

But if NOT, as Calvinists and Arminians teach, then what must one do to become part of the body of Christ? If one has to do SOMETHING first - like believe, accept, repent - before he can become part of the body of Christ, then that's salvation by works.

Both Calvinists and Arminians have a lot of explaining to do. Please just dwell on the issue. No ad hominems, please.
Believing is not a work
 

Samie

New member
If believing is not work, then, if a man believes, he does nothing. Conversely, if a man does nothing, then, he is believing. Therefore, to do NOTHING is believing. I don't think so.

To believe is to exercise faith. It is an act, hence, work.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Both Calvinists and Arminians believe that people are born in sin, hence, born NOT part of the body of Christ.

I believe people are born ALREADY part of the body of Christ, by God's grace.

But if NOT, as Calvinists and Arminians teach, then what must one do to become part of the body of Christ? If one has to do SOMETHING first - like believe, accept, repent - before he can become part of the body of Christ, then that's salvation by works.

Both Calvinists and Arminians have a lot of explaining to do. Please just dwell on the issue. No ad hominems, please.

We become a member in particular in the body of Christ when receive the gift of salvation.

We do this by meeting the two requirements of Romans 10:9-10
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
You were physically born into your earthly family.

You must be born again, I Peter 1:23, spiritually to be part of the family of God.
 

Epoisses

New member
Both Calvinists and Arminians believe that people are born in sin, hence, born NOT part of the body of Christ.

I believe people are born ALREADY part of the body of Christ, by God's grace.

But if NOT, as Calvinists and Arminians teach, then what must one do to become part of the body of Christ? If one has to do SOMETHING first - like believe, accept, repent - before he can become part of the body of Christ, then that's salvation by works.

Both Calvinists and Arminians have a lot of explaining to do. Please just dwell on the issue. No ad hominems, please.

People are only born as part of the body of Christ if they are born to believing parents. This is why Jesus' parents were carefully chosen and prepared before his birth. This is why John the Baptist' parents were carefully chosen and prepared before his birth. Children who are born to unbelieving parents are not born part of the body of Christ. This may sound harsh but it is just the way it is. There are verses that speak of this with the faith of the head of the household covering the entire family - Acts. 11:14; 16:31.
 

Samie

New member
We become a member in particular in the body of Christ when receive the gift of salvation.

We do this by meeting the two requirements of Romans 10:9-10
"Receiving" & "meeting the requirements" are human works, hence your explanation results to salvation by works.

KJV Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

KJV 2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began
 

Samie

New member
People are only born as part of the body of Christ if they are born to believing parents.
In that case, all are born already part of the body of Christ, because we all descended from Adam & Eve who were created in the image of God.

If it is argued that Adam sinned and was separated from God, then all his descendants are born NOT part of the Body of Christ. And we are back to square one: When does one become part of the body of Christ, without falling prey to salvation by works?
 

Epoisses

New member
In that case, all are born already part of the body of Christ, because we all descended from Adam & Eve who were created in the image of God.

If it is argued that Adam sinned and was separated from God, then all his descendants are born NOT part of the Body of Christ. And we are back to square one: When does one become part of the body of Christ, without falling prey to salvation by works?

People are not born part of the body of Christ unless their parents put them under grace from birth which rarely happens in our day. For most lost sinners they do not become part of the body of Christ until conversion which is the act of God not man. We don't have the power to convert ourselves which is like Nicodemus saying how can a man enter a second time into his mother's womb.
 

Samie

New member
People are not born part of the body of Christ unless their parents put them under grace from birth which rarely happens in our day. For most lost sinners they do not become part of the body of Christ until conversion which is the act of God not man. We don't have the power to convert ourselves which is like Nicodemus saying how can a man enter a second time into his mother's womb.
For God Who wants all men saved (1 Tim 2:3, 4) to convert man, what must man do?
 

Samie

New member
IF, as alleged by both Calvinists and Arminians, people are born NOT part of the body of Christ, and it is God Who converts man who can do NOTHING unless first made part of the body of Christ, PLUGGED IN to Him Who is the ONLY source of power, under what circumstance will God initiate the conversion process?

If God, Who does not play favorites converts one, what would prevent our God of agape, Who wants all men saved, from converting all?

If these questions remain inadequately addressed via Scripture, then, the doctrine that people are born in sin is not scriptural and must be rejected.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
"Receiving" & "meeting the requirements" are human works, hence your explanation results to salvation by works.

KJV Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

KJV 2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began
Hardly.

If you believe that God is the author of scripture, then you might want to take your objection with him not me
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
"Receiving" & "meeting the requirements" are human works, hence your explanation results to salvation by works.

KJV Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

KJV 2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

Your own scripture quote shows your error and inability to properly divide the Word of truth.

Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Faith and belief are not works.
 

ttruscott

Well-known member
Both Calvinists and Arminians believe that people are born in sin, hence, born NOT part of the body of Christ.

I believe people are born ALREADY part of the body of Christ, by God's grace.

But if NOT, as Calvinists and Arminians teach, then what must one do to become part of the body of Christ? If one has to do SOMETHING first - like believe, accept, repent - before he can become part of the body of Christ, then that's salvation by works.

Both Calvinists and Arminians have a lot of explaining to do. Please just dwell on the issue. No ad hominems, please.

This fits quite well with the conversation we are already having... I'll try to keep it short, a summary only.

This explanation is of our Pre-Conception Existence theology, the idea that everyone created in YHWH'S image was created at the same time (before the creation of the physical universe) in Sheol with a free will. By our free will we separated ourselves into three broad groups (some minor inter-group differences ignored for brevity):

1. Those who accepted, by their free will, YHWH's claims to be our creator GOD and wanted to come under HIS promise of election to heaven by the salvation found in HIS Son for salvation from any and all sins. GOD received them with HIS election promise, making them people of HIS kingdom and HIS Bride. Since YHWH had offered no proof at this time, they chose by faith, an unproven hope in HIM.

2. Those who totally rejected HIS claims to be our GOD and rejected HIS promises of election and salvation as the lies of a false god. By removing themselves from HIS promise they ensured their evil natures were eternal and they are all condemned to hell already. Since GOD has not proven HIS deity yet, they made this decison on faith, believing without proof that HE was a lying false god.

3. And then some few of those who accepted HIS deity and were chosen to be HIS elect, rebelled against HIS call for the elect to come out from among the demonic reprobate so they could be judged claiming the judgement was too harsh for their sin of unbelief, it was too rushed, not giving them time to repent and too unloving for the GOD who is love, etc etc putting their own feelings above GOD's judgment in idolatry of the demonic tares.

These sinful good seed, aka, the people of the kingdom, are sent to earth to live with their lovers and friends they put above YHWH until they realize the ultimate disvalue of sin and the fact that the reprobate will never, indeed, can never repent.

So, what must one do to become part of the body of Christ?? One must have chosen by their free will to put their faith in YHWH's claims to be their creator GOD and asked to come under HIS promise of election and salvation. Since YHWH never proved HIS claims before the elect made this decision, they made it on faith, trusting HE was telling us the truth and hoping without proof that HIS Son would indeed be their saviour if they should ever fall into sin. By faith you are saved by coming into Christ and by faith your are saved from your sin by returning to Christ if you should ever chose to go astray into evil.
 

Samie

New member
So, what must one do to become part of the body of Christ?? One must have chosen by their free will to put their faith in YHWH's claims to be their creator GOD and asked to come under HIS promise of election and salvation. Since YHWH never proved HIS claims before the elect made this decision, they made it on faith, trusting HE was telling us the truth and hoping without proof that HIS Son would indeed be their saviour if they should ever fall into sin. By faith you are saved by coming into Christ and by faith your are saved from your sin by returning to Christ if you should ever chose to go astray into evil.
Scripture tells us that Christ is the ONLY Source of power (1 Cor 1:24), hence UNLESS one is plugged in to Him, he is powerless; in Christ's own words he can do NOTHING (John 15:5).

But in your post you said that "to become part of the body of Christ, one must have chosen by their free will to put their faith in YHWH". So while yet not plugged in to Him, where would one get the power to choose and to put their faith in YHWH so they can become part of the body of Christ?
 

Samie

New member
You can't do anything Samie, that's the whole lesson of conversion.
Are you saying, that man is converted by doing nothing?

If not, then at what point in man's life will God, Who wants all men saved (1 Tim 2:3, 4), initiate the conversion process?
 
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