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mazakiparks
February 26th, 2009, 01:37 PM
Hello to you all.

Does everyone on here have to be a believer in the bible version of god. Will i be told to naff off if i say that i believe that we are all god, but are no more significant than plants or other animals.That we all belong to the same organism which is nature (GOD).:wave2:

Knight
February 26th, 2009, 01:39 PM
Hello to you all.

Does everyone on here have to be a believer in the bible version of god. Will i be told to naff off if i say that i believe that we are all god, but are no more significant than plants or other animals.That we all belong to the same organism which is nature (GOD).:wave2:
You can believe any wacky thing you want. We welcome all opinions here on TOL (just ask Granite and fool).

Just realize who's house you are at and you should be just fine.

Lyraluthuin
February 26th, 2009, 05:19 PM
Oooo, a pantheist.

*waits for the one-post-wonder to post in the theology fora*

mazakiparks
February 27th, 2009, 02:27 PM
Oooo, a pantheist.

*waits for the one-post-wonder to post in the theology fora*

Hmm.. i m not really sure what i am. Dont know if im really the same as John Tolands version.

Did he believe that maybe we are at odds with gods will. God/nature dictates that natural selection/culling is essential to an healthy earth. Too many of any one creature or one plant, then god/nature suffers.

I think maybe the people that are closest to god are the war mongerers. They are the people that help to cull the human race.

Having said that. God will get its way in the end. The human race will no doubt be cut down to size and then the earth will carry on business as usual.

chrysostom
February 27th, 2009, 02:34 PM
Hello to you all.

Does everyone on here have to be a believer in the bible version of god. Will i be told to naff off if i say that i believe that we are all god, but are no more significant than plants or other animals.That we all belong to the same organism which is nature (GOD).:wave2:

Why do you think we are no more significant than plants or animals?

chatmaggot
February 27th, 2009, 03:15 PM
Why do you think we are no more significant than plants or animals?

Two words:

Public School

chrysostom
February 27th, 2009, 03:23 PM
Two words:

Public School

do you send your plants and animals to public school?

assuranceagent
February 27th, 2009, 04:33 PM
Wait, did you say 'naff off' or 'laughed off'?

I thought I saw the former but then I read the rest of the sentence... :Plain:

Welcome to TOL, pansy. And by that I mean to imply your value, of course. :noid:






















;)

csuguy
February 27th, 2009, 07:29 PM
Welcome. That's a unique view point, haven't heard that before.

mazakiparks
February 28th, 2009, 06:34 AM
Why do you think we are no more significant than plants or animals?


Im afraid i have to answer that with a question.

Why do you, think we are. (more important).

If we all kick da bucket, and not one human exists. Do you think god will will say " Right . Thats it, no point in hanging out in this amazingly green, beautifull, wonderous place any more. No more humans..huh. Im off ".

This is just not going to happen.

Im not saying that god has no influence on us , or us on god. I pray. Although i only pray when i have a need for it. I only pray for other people... or even nature. ( prayers dont seem to work when i pray to benefit my self).

Stripe
February 28th, 2009, 10:33 AM
Hey, a newbie! :thumb:

Hi, newbie :wave:

mazakiparks
February 28th, 2009, 12:26 PM
hello to you all again. thanks for your replies.

Stripe
February 28th, 2009, 12:56 PM
So, Maza, don't be shy. Tell us a bit about yourself. Why are you from the UK? Does the number 51 hold any significance for you?

mazakiparks
February 28th, 2009, 03:29 PM
I is from the uk because thats where me flesh an blood was born.

51st state?

What would you like to know.

Town Heretic
February 28th, 2009, 03:37 PM
Hello to you all.
Hiya maz :wave2:


Does everyone on here have to be a believer in the bible version of god.
No. Some around here aren't even completely convinced that THEY exist...and, to be fair, neither are some of us. :think:

Will i be told to naff off if i say that i believe that we are all god, but are no more significant than plants or other animals.
Of course not, though a number of us will probably ask uncomfortable questions like, "how can you live with yourself believing as you do?" Do you have any idea how many organisms you are personally responsible for ending in any given, selfish day of your life? :shocked:

And a couple around here might suggest you're a mass murderer, by you own admission.

But first they'll more than likely just say hi and how are you, things like that...:Plain:

Ktoyou
February 28th, 2009, 04:11 PM
Hi,
I would rather have someone who thinks along pantheist lines and writes poorly, than a newbie with a big swollen head;)
So welcome. :chew:

I had a friend once who was a reformed Druid, they are allowed to pray to bushes.:ha:

mazakiparks
February 28th, 2009, 04:42 PM
Hiya maz :wave2:


No. Some around here aren't even completely convinced that THEY exist...and, to be fair, neither are some of us. :think:

Of course not, though a number of us will probably ask uncomfortable questions like, "how can you live with yourself believing as you do?" Do you have any idea how many organisms you are personally responsible for ending in any given, selfish day of your life? :shocked:

And a couple around here might suggest you're a mass murderer, by you own admission.

But first they'll more than likely just say hi and how are you, things like that...:Plain:

Hmm, thats an interesting thought. I suppose i am a mass murderer. I like to think of it as keeping the balance. Yin and yang stylie..


Hi,
I would rather have someone who thinks along pantheist lines and writes poorly, than a newbie with a big swollen head;)
So welcome. :chew:

Me writing i suppose is how i speak when im fooling about...innit...like. Im whats called a working class brummy.In otherwords , a person born in the city of Birmingham.

I had a friend once who was a reformed Druid, they are allowed to pray to bushes.:ha:

Im no druid. I still go to church. Churches are obviously fine places to pay respect to God. I would be happy to worship in a mosque as well.
But The church of England is what my anglo saxon brain is happiest with.

I do believe in Christ, although i dont think he was any more the son of god than you or me. But deffo, he had more insight than the average dude of his time.

Stripe
February 28th, 2009, 11:59 PM
I is from the uk because thats where me flesh an blood was born.

51st state?

What would you like to know.

Have you ever been to the West Indies?

zon3d
March 7th, 2009, 11:06 PM
Welcome. :)

John Mortimer
March 8th, 2009, 02:41 AM
Hi :)


Will i be told to naff off if i say that i believe that we are all god,


I agree we are all God... but there is a lot more to say about that.



but are no more significant than plants or other animals.


I agree with this only in the sense that all that is, is One in God.
However, we occupy a significantly higher state of consciousness than plants or animals.



That we all belong to the same organism which is nature (GOD).:wave2:

Nature is indeed essentially God, (the Mother aspect of God) but God is more than nature. All creation whatsoever - including all conceivable forms - can be represented symbolically as the Divine Feminine.

God is also above and beyond nature and the world of forms, (this can be described symbolically as the Divine Masculine... the Father aspect of Divinity), and therefore we are also, in essence, above and beyond nature. That is how we are able to be self-aware and investigate nature as we do.

God is pure Being.
In creation God is Being more.

Love

John

mazakiparks
March 8th, 2009, 08:50 AM
Hi :)



I agree we are all God... but there is a lot more to say about that.



I agree with this only in the sense that all that is, is One in God.
However, we occupy a significantly higher state of consciousness than plants or animals.

Yes i agree that we do have a different state of conciusness. But higher?.. Ive no idea. I believe that if i pray, my prayers are answered.
But the fact is we dont know what contectionother animals or plants have with god. A wild animal will kill and be killed and as a result become part of a healthy circle of life. Maybe that makes them more in tune with god.

Nature is indeed essentially God, (the Mother aspect of God) but God is more than nature. All creation whatsoever - including all conceivable forms - can be represented symbolically as the Divine Feminine.


God is also above and beyond nature and the world of forms, (this can be described symbolically as the Divine Masculine... the Father aspect of Divinity), and therefore we are also, in essence, above and beyond nature. That is how we are able to be self-aware and investigate nature as we do.

I have no idea of masculine or femine. For me , god is simply god.
I dont see how any one can know that we are above and beyond nature. Self awareness is just an aspect of the human animals that we are.

God is pure Being.
In creation God is Being more.

Love

John


I still struggle with the god thing. I def have a faith and i believe in god. I just really have no idea about the reality of god. I just have theories. These theories just seem like logic. Although logic may have nothing to do with it.

John Mortimer
March 8th, 2009, 10:18 AM
Hi Maz,

You say, "I have no idea of masculine or feminine. For me , god is simply god."

Sure... the reason I brought the symbols of Divine masculine & feminine into this was to help emphasize the fact that I don't personally hold the mental image we tend to have in the West of "God" as an external and separate, (and exclusively masculine), being like a glorified Zeus.

You go on to say,

"I dont see how any one can know that we are above and beyond nature. Self awareness is just an aspect of the human animals that we are."

Well, each one of us realises, "I am - I exist". We can wonder how nature "works" and investigate it in scientific, philosophical, religious and other ways. We have a need to be creative in all sorts of ways. We as a spieces do not simply adapt to our environment but actively seek to change our environment to make our lives easier or happier.

All of this indicates a quantum leap beyond animals.
Please don't misunderstand me - we have an animal dimension to our existence; and indeed we have a purely biological and mineralogical, (or inorganic), dimension to our existence. These lower dimensions of our being are truly wonderful and continue to yield entire worlds of wonder to our inquiries. But to the extent that we are aware that we can see ourselves as observers and investigators of nature we are above and beyond nature.

It could be argued in response... "If that is so then does the fact that we seek to observe and investigate God in Theology, Philosophy and Religion mean that we are above and beyond God?!"

And that would be a very important question. The answer is that we are above and beyond the "god" that can be captured by mental images and logical concepts... that "god" is nothing but an illusion. The Real God is that in Whom we, "...live and move and have our being", as St Paul says in the Bible.

Maz, I realise my vocabulary and conceptualisation here may seem very fancy and abstract but that's honsetly not down to me trying to appear impressive in some way. The fact is that the questions and ideas you have put forward - if taken seriously, (and I DO take them seriously) - push the barriers of language. The issues are that profound.

Stripe
March 8th, 2009, 11:17 AM
God is very logical. Sounds like you're not .. :)

John Mortimer
March 8th, 2009, 11:23 AM
God is very logical. Sounds like you're not .. :)


God is the source of logic and therefore cannot be captured, (i.e. completely described or understood), by logic.

That is pefectly logical.

mazakiparks
March 8th, 2009, 11:44 AM
Hi Maz,

You say, "I have no idea of masculine or feminine. For me , god is simply god."

Sure... the reason I brought the symbols of Divine masculine & feminine into this was to help emphasize the fact that I don't personally hold the mental image we tend to have in the West of "God" as an external and separate, (and exclusively masculine), being like a glorified Zeus.

You go on to say,

"I dont see how any one can know that we are above and beyond nature. Self awareness is just an aspect of the human animals that we are."

Well, each one of us realises, "I am - I exist". We can wonder how nature "works" and investigate it in scientific, philosophical, religious and other ways. We have a need to be creative in all sorts of ways. We as a spieces do not simply adapt to our environment but actively seek to change our environment to make our lives easier or happier.

All of this indicates a quantum leap beyond animals.
Please don't misunderstand me - we have an animal dimension to our existence; and indeed we have a purely biological and mineralogical, (or inorganic), dimension to our existence. These lower dimensions of our being are truly wonderful and continue to yield entire worlds of wonder to our inquiries. But to the extent that we are aware that we can see ourselves as observers and investigators of nature we are above and beyond nature.

It could be argued in response... "If that is so then does the fact that we seek to observe and investigate God in Theology, Philosophy and Religion mean that we are above and beyond God?!"

And that would be a very important question. The answer is that we are above and beyond the "god" that can be captured by mental images and logical concepts... that "god" is nothing but an illusion. The Real God is that in Whom we, "...live and move and have our being", as St Paul says in the Bible.

Maz, I realise my vocabulary and conceptualisation here may seem very fancy and abstract but that's honsetly not down to me trying to appear impressive in some way. The fact is that the questions and ideas you have put forward - if taken seriously, (and I DO take them seriously) - push the barriers of language. The issues are that profound.

Dont worry about the words John. I dont take you as bombast.
Im an uneducated working class fellow. I speak in the manner im acustomed. A bombast wouldnt usually take the subject any where productive.

In terms of intelligence, of course we are way beyond any other creature on our planet, that we know of (although i see no reason why many other forms intelligent species exist beyond our abillities to percieve them). But this doesnt put us any closer to god , any more important to god or have a better understanding of god.

Comprehention or understanding of god my well be beyond our comprehention or understanding. This is where other animals may be a step or two ahead of us ( i may be talking cobblers there).

chatmaggot
March 8th, 2009, 12:09 PM
I agree we are all God... but there is a lot more to say about that.


:hammer:

John Mortimer
March 8th, 2009, 01:50 PM
In terms of intelligence, of course we are way beyond any other creature on our planet, that we know of (although i see no reason why many other forms intelligent species exist beyond our abillities to percieve them).


Agreed!



But this doesnt put us any closer to god ,


Agreed



any more important to god


Agreed



or have a better understanding of god.


We surely have a higher consciousness of God though?
Would you not say so?
Raising consciousness, expanding awareness, is all part and parcel of what it means to be truly "alive", I would personally say.



Comprehention or understanding of god my well be beyond our comprehention or understanding.


But again, that view conceives "god" as being something "out there".... which God is, BUT God is not just "out there" - God is us, "in there", also.
This is why God can never be an object. God is always more than any conception of God. That does not mean there is not a wealth of useful information about God in nature, science, theology, the arts etc etc BUT it does mean that the in-form-ation is simply that which can produce "forms". God is expressed in forms, (even in mental images of "God"), but is also beyond all form since God is the source of all form.

Edit:
"The sun is God" is a correct, though limited, statement - because God is All that Is and the sun is part of all that is.
"God is the sun" would be a technically idolatorous statement - because God is always more than any object of thought.

Interestingly, the bible declares that God is Love and God is Light and these are not idolatrous statements.

mazakiparks
March 9th, 2009, 12:23 PM
:hammer:


Yes mate i do have time to think. Ive worked hard for a living before , i really aint in to it any more.
:thumb::thumb:

mazakiparks
March 9th, 2009, 12:26 PM
Agreed!





Agreed



Agreed



We surely have a higher consciousness of God though?
Would you not say so?
Raising consciousness, expanding awareness, is all part and parcel of what it means to be truly "alive", I would personally say.



But again, that view conceives "god" as being something "out there".... which God is, BUT God is not just "out there" - God is us, "in there", also.
This is why God can never be an object. God is always more than any conception of God. That does not mean there is not a wealth of useful information about God in nature, science, theology, the arts etc etc BUT it does mean that the in-form-ation is simply that which can produce "forms". God is expressed in forms, (even in mental images of "God"), but is also beyond all form since God is the source of all form.

Edit:
"The sun is God" is a correct, though limited, statement - because God is All that Is and the sun is part of all that is.
"God is the sun" would be a technically idolatorous statement - because God is always more than any object of thought.

Interestingly, the bible declares that God is Love and God is Light and these are not idolatrous statements.



Hi john. Im going to come back to this thread. Ive got some Rampage Jackson to watch on UFC 96......Yin and Yang.