ECT Ps 89: too much about Christ to be about David

Interplanner

Well-known member
Although I've never heard the great David's-throne enthusiasts use Ps 89, they could. They prefer other passages. But after seeing how the NT uses Ps 89, I may have found why they avoid it. It turns out it does not validate David as we know him, which is the point.

When you get to vs 19-29 you have a section where nearly every line has been used in the NT to be about Christ, from 'I will be his father' to 'he will be the first born of all creation.' Too much of this is about Christ to be about David. David did not ascend to heaven, says Acts 2, and did not make a sacrifice for our sins, so he does not get these accolades.

Which is why this psalm ends disappointed in God. I don't think the writer read his own vs 30+. If the sons of David sin, they will be devastated, but not the "David" of the Psalm. That "David" will never be treated that way. Because that is Christ, and the amazing thing about Christ, as we know from the NT is that he has has believers 'IN him' as a position for receiving blessings.

Lastly, we have a disappointed Psalm about David's throne in which the last verse is quoted by Rom 15. It shows us this psalm was about Christ all along. It is really about Christ's rejection, Christ being the scorn of neighbors, but finally his victory. This was further used in Rom 15 in v8 when Paul said Christ has confirmed/fulfilled the promises made to the patriarchs so that the nations could believe and enjoy Christian fellowship. This is where it was all going.

Not to a restored theocracy in Judea with a reincarnated David.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Either this is all new to you or you don't pay attention.

We use it quite frequently.




OK, on the use then, I kept seeing the Jer passage.



:chuckle:


What basis do you have for ignoring what the NT says? Actually, for ignoring what the psalm itself says. It does say the sons of David would be devasted, but not the "David."
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Although I've never heard the great David's-throne enthusiasts use Ps 89, they could.

I quote these words quite often:

"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant...Nevertheless my loving-kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David" (Ps.89:3,33-35).​

Are you saying that this is not referring to David at all but instead the Lord Jesus Christ?
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
What basis do you have for ignoring what the NT says? Actually, for ignoring what the psalm itself says. It does say the sons of David would be devasted, but not the "David."

I don't ignore it, but neither do I impose a foreign meaning on it.

Where do you get the impression that those of us who agree with Scripture regarding Israel's Messiah/Christ sitting on David's throne in the future, believe that David's greater Son would be 'devastated'? We have been defending the very opposite of that idea.

You are the one who believes that GOD has altered His promise to David....not us.

Psa 89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
Psa 89:35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
Psa 89:36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.


In harmony with the Prophets of Israel and with the Prophet David in particular, Peter declares the same.

Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.



Peter declares that GOD raised Jesus from the dead to sit on David's throne.
That's what the harmony of prophetic Scripture declares and...that is what we believe.

Acts 13 is not out of continuity with this exact same prophetic promise.

Your interpretation breaks the continuity and alters what GOD promised therefore your interpretation is wrong.
 

serpentdove

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"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant...Nevertheless my loving-kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David" (Ps.89:3,33-35).
David received an eternal covenant (2 Sam. 7:1–29).

See:

Ps 89
 
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Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Peter declares that GOD raised Jesus from the dead to sit on David's throne.

Yes, and let's not forget that David's throne is an earthly throne:

"Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father; and his kingdom was established greatly" (1 Ki. 2:12).​

The Lord Jesus will sit upon the earthly throne when He returns to earth, as witnessed by His own words here:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory"
(Mt.25:31).​

Since Interplanner has no place in his eschatology for these things happening he must somehow get rid of them by spiritualizing them away.
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Yes, and let's not forget that David's throne is an earthly throne:

"Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father; and his kingdom was established greatly" (1 Ki. 2:12).​

The Lord Jesus will sit upon the earthly throne when He returns to earth, as witnessed by His own words here:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory"
(Mt.25:31).​

Since Interplanner has no place in his eschatology for these things happening he must somehow get rid of them by spiritualizing them away.

Yes, I agree!
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Yes, and let's not forget that David's throne is an earthly throne:

"Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father; and his kingdom was established greatly" (1 Ki. 2:12).​

The Lord Jesus will sit upon the earthly throne when He returns to earth, as witnessed by His own words here:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory"
(Mt.25:31).​

Since Interplanner has no place in his eschatology for these things happening he must somehow get rid of them by spiritualizing them away.

The verse does not mention an earthly throne, nor a throne of David.

LA
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
The verse does not mention an earthly throne, nor a throne of David.

LA

Nowhere does Scripture define David's throne as being anything other than his and his descendant's rule over the tribes in the land promised to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

2Sa 3:10 To translate the kingdom from the house of Saul, and to set up the throne of David over Israel and over Judah, from Dan even to Beersheba.


1Ki 1:17 And she said unto him, My lord, thou swarest by the LORD thy God unto thine handmaid, saying, Assuredly Solomon thy son shall reign after me, and he shall sit upon my throne.


1Ki 2:11 And the days that David reigned over Israel were forty years: seven years reigned he in Hebron, and thirty and three years reigned he in Jerusalem.
1Ki 2:12 Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father; and his kingdom was established greatly.

1Ki 2:45 And king Solomon shall be blessed, and the throne of David shall be established before the LORD for ever.



1Ki 9:5 Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man upon the throne of Israel.


Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.


Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.


GOD does not equivocate.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Nowhere does Scripture define David's throne as being anything other than his and his descendant's rule over the tribes in the land promised to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

2Sa 3:10 To translate the kingdom from the house of Saul, and to set up the throne of David over Israel and over Judah, from Dan even to Beersheba.


1Ki 1:17 And she said unto him, My lord, thou swarest by the LORD thy God unto thine handmaid, saying, Assuredly Solomon thy son shall reign after me, and he shall sit upon my throne.


1Ki 2:11 And the days that David reigned over Israel were forty years: seven years reigned he in Hebron, and thirty and three years reigned he in Jerusalem.
1Ki 2:12 Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father; and his kingdom was established greatly.

1Ki 2:45 And king Solomon shall be blessed, and the throne of David shall be established before the LORD for ever.



1Ki 9:5 Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man upon the throne of Israel.


Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.


Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.


GOD does not equivocate.

Peter straightened that out for you.

Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

So did Jesus--

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

LA
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Peter straightened that out for you.

Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

So did Jesus--

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

LA


Steko is only mistaken in that he has confined it to the land of Israel and the tribes. It is opened up to the whole world in the prophets, and Acts 15 quotes Amos 9 saying the belief that has started among the nations is the raised fallen tent of David.
 

Lazy afternoon

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Steko is only mistaken in that he has confined it to the land of Israel and the tribes. It is opened up to the whole world in the prophets, and Acts 15 quotes Amos 9 saying the belief that has started among the nations is the raised fallen tent of David.

Yes,

MAD thinks the tent of David is something of the coming millennium.

A simple read of Revelations shows otherwise.

Changing the beliefs of the blind without the Lord opening their eyes is not a good idea.

LA
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Steko is only mistaken in that he has confined it to the land of Israel and the tribes. It is opened up to the whole world in the prophets, and Acts 15 quotes Amos 9 saying the belief that has started among the nations is the raised fallen tent of David.

Evidently you did not notice that James placed the raising of the fallen tent of David in the future. At Acts 15:16 James quoted the prophecies of Amos. James quoted from the Greek version of the OT (the Septuigant), but with a slight modification. Here are the verses from the Septuigant :

"In that day will I raise up again the tabernacle of David that is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up...That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who does all these things" (Amos 9:11-12; Septuigant).​

James replaced the words "in that day" with the following words:

"After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things" (Acts 1516).​

James believed that this prophecy of Amos will not be fulfilled until after the Lord Jesus returns. And of course James was correct.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
MAD thinks the tent of David is something of the coming millennium.

As I just demonstrated in my last post to Interplanner, James believed that the raising up of David's tent would not happen until the Lord Jesus returns to the earth. And here the Lord Jesus spoke about His return to the earth and He says that it will be "then" when He begins to sit upon His throne:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).​

This will mark the beginning of the Millennium reign of the Lord Jesus and it will be then that the fallen tent of David will be raised up.

You have no place in your eschatology for the return of the Lord Jesus to sit upon His throne and reign so you must somehow get rid of the Lord's words at Matthew 25:31.
 

Danoh

New member
Evidently you did not notice that James placed the raising of the fallen tent of David in the future. At Acts 15:16 James quoted the prophecies of Amos. James quoted from the Greek version of the OT (the Septuigant), but with a slight modification. Here are the verses from the Septuigant :

"In that day will I raise up again the tabernacle of David that is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up...That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who does all these things" (Amos 9:11-12; Septuigant).​

James replaced the words "in that day" with the following words:

"After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things" (Acts 1516).​

James believed that this prophecy of Amos will not be fulfilled until after the Lord Jesus returns. And of course James was correct.

Your conclusion that James changed the wording is off.

You see this...

Acts 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

James used the word "prophets" which is plural.

In other words, he was basing his assertion on more than one prophet.

Thus, his "After this" is in connection with what another Prophet had also said about that.

Take a look at what Hosea had said about Israel's latter days.

Specifically, the first word in verse 5, but here is the entire chapter for scope and context, which; not surprisingly; agrees with Paul's citing of Hosea in his Romans 9 assertion that God is not through with Israel, rather, that He is doing something else first "As he saith ALSO in Osee..."

Anyway, take a look at the first word in verse 5, below - it is why James mentioned "prophets" plural.

Hosea 3:1 Then said the LORD unto me, Go yet, love a woman beloved of her friend, yet an adulteress, according to the love of the LORD toward the children of Israel, who look to other gods, and love flagons of wine. 3:2 So I bought her to me for fifteen pieces of silver, and for an homer of barley, and an half homer of barley: 3:3 And I said unto her, Thou shalt abide for me many days; thou shalt not play the harlot, and thou shalt not be for another man: so will I also be for thee. 3:4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim: 3:5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.

While I'm at it, here is Paul in...

Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Hosea had ALSO prophesied a time when God had spoken of a delay in His plans for Israel during their disobedience, while He did something else first.

Thus, that He was once more delaying His plans as to Israel during Israel's disobedience in Paul's day, was not unheard of; was not out of line with God's practices in the past.

In this, Romans 9:25 is not about Romans 9:24, rather, it is the same thought as verses 22 & 23.

Hosea had also prophesied a delay, in his day, not a cancellation, which is what the following is actually talking about.

9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. 9:29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha. 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Thus, in agreement with you Jerry, James is not only asserting his understanding that Israel's promise has been delayed once more, but that...

"Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world" Acts 15:18.

They've been thrown off by the change Paul has laid out the details of to them about, but have decided to trust that God knows what He is doing.

As had been their response in the following, as well.

Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Mid-Acts Dispensationalism - what a wonderful set of Bible based principles for understanding the Scripture!
 
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Interplanner

Well-known member
Evidently you did not notice that James placed the raising of the fallen tent of David in the future. At Acts 15:16 James quoted the prophecies of Amos. James quoted from the Greek version of the OT (the Septuigant), but with a slight modification. Here are the verses from the Septuigant :

"In that day will I raise up again the tabernacle of David that is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up...That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who does all these things" (Amos 9:11-12; Septuigant).​

James replaced the words "in that day" with the following words:

"After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things" (Acts 1516).​

James believed that this prophecy of Amos will not be fulfilled until after the Lord Jesus returns. And of course James was correct.



Except that you are incorrect. You did not demonstrate what you think you did. You have futuritis. Everything you read about 'the future' in the NT is read as if it was OUR future. No, that verse was about Amos' future. 'After (the decline of Israel in exilic judgement), I will return and rebuild the fallen tent...'

For crying out loud, Jerry, they were solving the question of the Gentiles inclusion, not 2500 years in the futre, but RIGHT THEN!!!
 

Danoh

New member
Except that you are incorrect. You did not demonstrate what you think you did. You have futuritis. Everything you read about 'the future' in the NT is read as if it was OUR future. No, that verse was about Amos' future. 'After (the decline of Israel in exilic judgement), I will return and rebuild the fallen tent...'

For crying out loud, Jerry, they were solving the question of the Gentiles inclusion, not 2500 years in the futre, but RIGHT THEN!!!

No, imbecile - they are asserting that what God was now doing among the Gentiles before He carries out His Prophesied plan and purpose among the Gentiles through Israel's once more delayed rise, is not a violation of said Prophesied but now delayed plan and purpose because it follows said delayed plan's same principle of a work among the Gentiles.

That is a VERY Pauline attribute.

Their understanding of the above was "now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit" through Paul.

The Spirit confirming Paul's assertions and ministry through signs following - duh - uh.

Acts 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them. 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:

It is why the signs are mentioned...

Romans 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 15:17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. 15:18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation: 15:21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
 
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