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Jefferson
December 14th, 2002, 12:18 PM
Here is the transcript of the debate last night between Enyart and O'Reilly on the FOX news show, The O'Reilly Factor:

O'Reilly: This next story is very graphic and disturbing. Grady and Deborah Matchinck are on trial for abusing their teenage son. Mr.
Matchink is an L.A. county sherriff sargent. His wife, an L.A. elementary school principal. According to the D.A., they locked the then 14 year old boy out of the house at night, forcing
him to sleep on a dog mat. They also allegedly put dog droppings in his back-pack before he went to school. The child has been
removed from the home and the jury is now deliberating the fate of the Matchincks who could get 3 years in prison each. Joining us now from Denver is radio talk-show host pastor Bob Enyart. This is in my thinking I would convict. I would convict here because it's a pattern of sadism. One of the things is, the mother, Deborah Matchinck, took nude photos of the boy,
threatened to plaster them on the school walls if her son didn't change his behavior. This can't be alright with you pastor, can it?

Enyart: Well, why would you ask the question that way Mr. O'Reilly? Of course sexual harrasment, to threaten someone sexually, whether it's a wife, a girlfriend, or your own child (your going to post their pictures, naked pictures publicly) that's criminal. That's a serious threat and a criminal matter. Such a thing should be prosecuted. But what I think you should realize is that because there's a holy war in America against spanking, parents have lost control of their kids. Their kids are miserable and parents are pushed to try creative things
that don't work because the tried and true spanking does work.And when people argue and fight against spanking they don't realize it but they're hurting kids.

O'Reilly: Are you telliing me though that making your own child sleep outside on a dog mat is a creative way to discipline a child?

Enyart: I think it's absurd. But what I'm saying is if you're
part of the jihad against spanking then you're pushing parents into desparation where they don't know what to do to get their kids . . .

O'Reilly: I don't believe that for a second. I mean look, this guy's a police sargent. These are educated people. These aren't people who are drug addicted. Well, they may be but these are people who are professionals and they.

Enyart: But look at college professors and the kids that they raise. Kids today are miserable. ..

O'Reilly: Some

Enyart: They disrespect their parents. ..

O'Reilly: Some. Not all.

Enyart: No not all, of course.

O'Reilly: I don't hit anybody. I was a high school teacher
and I didn't loose control of any kids and I don't hit anybody. And believe me, nobody misbehaves in my presence.

Enyart: Mr. O'Reilley how many documentaries does there have to be of our public high schools where they bring cameras in
and it's like a zoo. In Denver we have girls practically having sex in the hallways.

O'Reilly: Yeah, it's because they don't hold kids accountable for their behavior. There's a difference between discipline and sadism.

Enyart: I agree.

O'Reilly: And I don't believe, look you believe spanking's
a cure-all, I don't. And let the audience decide. It's not a cure-all.

Enyart: Spanking works.

O'Reilly: In some cases it does. In some cases it's abusive.

Enyart: Excuse the pun but it works accross the board. ..

O'Reilly: No it doesn't.

Enyart: ...through generation after generation. You raise
healthy kids when you spank them. And you're part of the jihad.

O'Reilly: Pastor, you go to any prison in the United States
and you'll find that 90 percent of the violent felons have been beaten as children.

Enyart: You're wrong.

O'Reilly: It doesn't work.

Enyart: You're wrong.

O'Reilly: No I'm not. That's true. That's true. Get the
department of corrections report then pastor.

Enyart: You are wrong. There are parents who don't believe in spanking. They don't spank their kids and they fly off the handle because their kids are miserable.

O'Reilly: Hey pastor, get the Department of Corrections report on violent felons. Don't tell me I'm wrong. I'm right. That report says that 90 percent of violent felons in this country were physically beaten as children. Don't give me that "I'm wrong" business. I deal in facts, not hyperbole.

Enyart: Any study can be written by somebody with an axe to
grind. If the author is part of the jihad then they're going to tell you and you're going to believe.

O'Reilly: Alright, let's get back to these 2 people alright?

Enyart: Yeah.

O'Reilly: Now, you're on the jury. These things have been proven
beyond a reasonable doubt to you. What do you sentence these parents to?

Enyart: Whatever is criminal. For example threatening to put naked pictures of a family member up, doing that is criminal so therefore if you look at the principle . . .

O'Reilly: What do you sentence them to?

Enyart: Well you sentence them . . . if you threaten someone
with sexual harrasment they should be flogged. That's what should happen to them.

O'Reilly: Flogged. I don't think that's an option in California.

Enyart: Well you know what? About 90 percent of Americans support flogging. It's a lot more effective.

O'Reilly: Alright I'm getting . . . there's a theme here.

Enyart: Yeah, there's a theme.

O'Reilly: I'm getting the physical hurting theme here.

Enyart: Here's the theme. There's a difference between right
and wrong and liberals who are against spanking, against the death penalty, pro homosexual, pro evolution. ..

O'Reilly: And we're gonna flog 'em all. Alright pastor we've got to let you go because we've got more flogging to do here. Thanks very much.

Dee Dee Warren
December 14th, 2002, 12:25 PM
That is CLASSIC!!!! Thank you for posting that Jefferson.. I wish I could have seen it.

Knight
December 14th, 2002, 12:41 PM
O'Reilly, is such dork.

Yxboom
December 14th, 2002, 01:03 PM
Wasn't there a caller recently who was insistant that O'Reilly was conservative. Appears Enyart outs another liberal from the conservative closet.

Pilgrimagain
December 14th, 2002, 01:28 PM
There was another thread on here baout that evening in regards to spanking. I think Enyart is correct at least in that spanking can be a good thing and used correctly is very effective.

Of course he himself needs to learn a little about the line between spanking and beating if reports are true.

Yxboom
December 14th, 2002, 01:31 PM
A baseball bat (a hockey stick in Knight's case)= Beating

A switch or paddle = Spanking

Pilgrimagain
December 14th, 2002, 01:35 PM
Depends on how you use the paddle or switch. I've seen kids bloody and unable to move after a good licking by a switch or paddle.

And you should have ssen the passle my mom used on my brother. Man on on such a b ig kid as him was getting hit by that veritable bread board not a beating!

cirisme
December 14th, 2002, 01:36 PM
I can't stand O'Reilly. :rolleyes:

Yxboom
December 14th, 2002, 01:40 PM
Without being overly anal regarding it my point remained that there is a clear distinction between beating a child and spanking him. A butt bruised v. a black eye are not to be confused.

Pilgrimagain
December 14th, 2002, 01:44 PM
Yes, you are quite right on that one. And any fool could see the difference.

I also note that there is a difference in attitude that need sto be seen as well. I mean, no one should hit our of anger. Rather, controled spanking is for punishment, not release of emotion.

Yxboom
December 14th, 2002, 01:54 PM
My father was anti-spanking and my mother used to hit out of anger all the time due to the fact that she was a little chinese woman with 3 very large boys. Brooms, tires, you name it. She had no control and they knew it. Often cops came to our home because there was just no other resolution.

I became saved, learned God's way of rearing children and my family as a contrast on the other hand, my wife has never in any instance needed to lash out in anger. Spankings are administered by me and always in a calm manner where we have a few minutes in reflection and resolution for it not to be repeated. We have a minute in prayer and the spanking is then administered. In a few minutes following there are apologies reconcilition and forgiveness. Due to the manner in which we discipline our children are extremely cordial and are not brats to begin with therefore the need for a spanking is far and few in between and the need for lashing out illogical. It just doesn't happen. Therefore there is peace and love and the 20-30 minutes of broken fellowship in the process of discipline pays its dividends in the weeks, months and quite possibly years of love and unity.

cirisme
December 14th, 2002, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by Yxboom

I became saved, learned God's way of rearing children and my family as a contrast on the other hand, my wife has never in any instance needed to lash out in anger. Spankings are administered by me and always in a calm manner where we have a few minutes in reflection and resolution for it not to be repeated. We have a minute in prayer and the spanking is then administered. In a few minutes following there are apologies reconcilition and forgiveness. Due to the manner in which we discipline our children are extremely cordial and are not brats to begin with therefore the need for a spanking is far and few in between and the need for lashing out illogical. It just doesn't happen. Therefore there is peace and love and the 20-30 minutes of broken fellowship in the process of discipline pays its dividends in the weeks, months and quite possibly years of love and unity.

That's a great process.

I'll have to remember that when I have kids. :thumb:

Pilgrimagain
December 14th, 2002, 04:51 PM
Hey Boom I think that is an awesome example of just how it should be done! The aspect of prayer added into the mix is exactly what people should be doing. I also like that you talk about reconciliation and forgiveness at the end of the process. Sounds like you are doing a great job!

Yxboom
December 14th, 2002, 05:03 PM
Thanks but had I not been saved and brought to an understanding of Godly child rearing I imagine my children would be pretty messed up. Our children are the inheretance from God and we give Him the credit.

Pilgrimagain
December 14th, 2002, 06:37 PM
Well said and amen.

ebenz47037
December 14th, 2002, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by Yxboom
Thanks but had I not been saved and brought to an understanding of Godly child rearing I imagine my children would be pretty messed up. Our children are the inheretance from God and we give Him the credit.

I know exactly what you're saying here. And, I agree. I had a messed up childhood as well. Without God, I would have been dead by the time I was twenty. And, with God, I am doing (IMHO) a pretty good job raising my daughter.

la rubia
December 14th, 2002, 07:25 PM
I saw Enyart last night on O'Reilly... Bill O'Reilly is such a weiner.

GraceInMe
December 14th, 2002, 07:36 PM
I have so much respect for Enyart.......Not to many people in the Christian community would stick up for what is right like he does. He goes through a lot of ridicule for it too. He is my modern day hero.

cirisme
December 15th, 2002, 10:10 AM
Bill O'Reilly is such a weiner.

:crackup: Hehehe, I agree. :thumb:

Ryokan
December 15th, 2002, 08:46 PM
I've turned out very well, as have my siblings, and we where never spanked. Grounded an awful lot, but not spanked.
And Enyart's as bad as O'Reilly.

GraceInMe
December 15th, 2002, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by Ryokan
I've turned out very well, as have my siblings, and we where never spanked. Grounded an awful lot, but not spanked.
And Enyart's as bad as O'Reilly.

I don't think anyone here is saying all kids need to be spanked to be good, I never got one. My brother on the other hand got a lot of them. Kids are all different, but if they need a spanking they should get one. This country should not tell us we can't spank.

rjnnycdisc
December 15th, 2002, 09:51 PM
Moderator Note: Edited for stupidity

Ryokan
December 16th, 2002, 07:07 AM
Because there is a school of thought that says kids are evil and couldn't be motivated to do the right thing without the fear of pain. I think there is probably a better way, but I am not going to tell people to raise their kids unless they are causing more harm than spanking. And flogging is a really dumb idea. Enyart must be off his nut. Its cruel and unusual punishment, and leaves scars.

Alukard
December 16th, 2002, 07:25 AM
Don't confuse the facts here,O'Reilly is not a fundamentalist convervative like Enyart, but he is considered by most an economic and political conservative. Just because he and Enyart but heads over spanking and flogging doesn't make O'Reilly any less conservative. That said, he is still wrong on many other issues I've heard him speak about, but granted I still like a lot of the things he has to say!

Jefferson
December 16th, 2002, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by Ryokan
And flogging is a really dumb idea. Enyart must be off his nut. Its cruel and unusual punishment, and leaves scars.
And locking human beings up like animals is NOT cruel and unusual punishment? A flogging only takes a minute and then the criminal goes home where his wife is not deprived of her husband, where his kids are not deprived of their father, where he is (hopefully) gainfully employed, etc.

You would rather have him be sodomized in prison for 6 months? You're kidding, right?

Ryokan
December 16th, 2002, 10:27 AM
I'd rather have someone who does that from their child imprisoned, and the child put in foster care. We should not become monsters because others are. And Prison leaves not visible marks usually. And I'd rather see no-one sodomized jefferson.

Jefferson
December 16th, 2002, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by Ryokan
We should not become monsters because others are.
My parents spanked me and they are far from "monsters." A calm, loving parental spanking is not the same thing as a frenzied, hateful beating. You don't see a difference between the two?

Ryokan
December 16th, 2002, 12:31 PM
obviously, spankings is a legitimate parenting practice. I don't think its the best one in all(or most) case, but its fair and I am not going to tell people they shouldn't do it, especially since I don't have kids. You must see the difference between spanking and flogging, jefferson

Jefferson
December 16th, 2002, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by Ryokan
You must see the difference between spanking and flogging, jefferson
Of course I do. It's just that anti-spanking zealots - in referring to spanking - will say things like, "you should never "hit" a child." Well, no kidding. There is a difference between hitting and spanking.

Ryokan
December 16th, 2002, 01:00 PM
I see the difference to, so the issue is .....

bnnyc1955
December 16th, 2002, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Ryokan
obviously, spankings is a legitimate parenting practice. I don't think its the best one in all(or most) case, but its fair and I am not going to tell people they shouldn't do it, especially since I don't have kids. You must see the difference between spanking and flogging, jefferson

Enyart's reference to "flogging" was, I think, referring to punishment for adults, not children I think (see Jefferson's discourse on the top). Adults are older and tougher so need to be brought down a peg more severely (assuming they can physically take the punishment). Even in Singapore, there are age limits to who is caned (under age 50).

Gerald
December 16th, 2002, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by Jefferson

A calm, loving parental spanking is not the same thing as a frenzied, hateful beating.

I received the second on a pretty regular basis, Jefferson, and I think I turned out reasonably well...

It instilled in me the notion that it is unnecessary to raise one's hand to a fellow human being...

...except to cause permanent damage...

It is also the primary reason I do not and will not have children.

Poly
December 16th, 2002, 01:21 PM
Don't confuse the facts here,O'Reilly is not a fundamentalist convervative like Enyart, but he is considered by most an economic and political conservative. Just because he and Enyart but heads over spanking and flogging doesn't make O'Reilly any less conservative. That said, he is still wrong on many other issues I've heard him speak about, but granted I still like a lot of the things he has to say!

Name one issue such as abortion that O'Reilly doesn't agree with the Liberals on?

Ryokan
December 16th, 2002, 02:17 PM
taxes. national defense. welfare. affirmative action.

Pilgrimagain
December 16th, 2002, 04:23 PM
There you have it.

GraceInMe
December 16th, 2002, 04:30 PM
So if someone is 80% liberal and 20% conservative, explain again how that makes them conservative?

Poly
December 16th, 2002, 04:36 PM
Name one issue such as abortion that O'Reilly doesn't agree with the Liberals on?

Ok my bad for trying to show what kind of an evil man he is by asking such a dumb question. On huge issues such as abortion, gay rights and the death penalty he unfortunately agrees with liberals.

4 A.M. Prayer
December 16th, 2002, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by GraceInMe
So if someone is 80% liberal and 20% conservative, explain again how that makes them conservative?

But the problem with so many "Enyart-ites" is how can you misguided seemingly hateful souls (some, not all) who post here think that if someone is 80% conservative and 20% liberal (or whatever percentage that Shadowgov deems unacceptable), explain how that makes them liberal?

I'm pro-spank by the way (I got the belt, the paddle, the hand, the spatula, etc...) but I'm thinking many on the "right" here would want parents to have some sort of carte blanche when it comes to a degree of "discipline".

Hey folks; how about a moratorium on this "left"/"right", "liberal"/"conservative" lingo and just discuss the issues and doctrines. I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears.

Jefferson
December 16th, 2002, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by 4 A.M. Prayer
But the problem with so many "Enyart-ites" is how can you misguided seemingly hateful souls (some, not all) who post here think that if someone is 80% conservative and 20% liberal (or whatever percentage that Shadowgov deems unacceptable), explain how that makes them liberal?
You have it backwards. GraceInMe said, "So if someone is 80% liberal and 20% conservative, explain again how that makes them conservative?"

naima
December 17th, 2002, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by Jefferson

You have it backwards. GraceInMe said, "So if someone is 80% liberal and 20% conservative, explain again how that makes them conservative?"

I think 4 AM was saying that many posters here think it impossible to basically be a somewhat conservative Christian yet still hold to a few liberal beliefs, that many Enyart-ites think you a liberal if you are 80% conservative and 20% liberal.

Ryokan
December 17th, 2002, 09:45 AM
O'Reilley is of the right, just not the religious right. The r.r. just thinks they are the only conservatives around, and that everyone else is an evil liberal.