Did Paul Follow God's Law as a Believer?

Ben Masada · Jan 12, 2016

Did Paul Follow God's Law as a Believer?

No! Absolutely not. He followed God's Law as a predator follows the victim: To destroy it. If you read Romans 7:9-25, the Law served only to bring death to him. (v.8) Without the Law, Paul could live in sin without any pain of conscience but after he read about the Law, sin revived and caused his life to become unbearable to live since to live meant death to him. (v.9)

Somehow, Paul knew that the Law is spiritual but, what could he do if he was carnal, sold under sin? (v.14) It seemed that Paul had got so accustomed to the way he used to live before that, after he found out from the Law that it was sinful, he started hating to have to live that way but he would do all the same. (v.15) Then he arrived to the conclusion of how sinful was to live that way but he could not change the sinful condition that dwelt in him. (v.17)

What had become an unbearable struggle for Paul was to love God's Law in his mind while serving the law of sin in his flesh. (v.22,23) Therefore, he considered himself a wretched man who could find no deliverance from the body of death that forced him to serve the Law of God in his mind only while serving sin in his flesh. (v. 24,25)

All the above is about the famous sinful thorn on the side of Paul. Do you have any idea what could it have been? I can't be more specific here than I have been, and tell you what every thing was about Paul but, one more thing I feel allowed to add. Paul had been born on the wrong time in History. Had he been born today, he would not have to live under such sinful repressed feelings which made his life so miserable.

RBBI · Jan 12, 2016

Paul is explaining the condition of ALL MEN after the fall and after the law came, in comparison to what came after. Sin is not just a verb, it's a noun also. It's a principality that cannot be overcome through the law alone, which is why the Spirit was poured out.

What he is saying is, that since he acquired the Spirit, he has become aware of this struggle within himself with this principality, and THAT IS the thorn in his flesh. He could not get it removed, because he was a man born out of season, privy to revelation * that was not to be fulfilled during his time in a physical body (*the redemption of the body Romans 8 speaks of).

Just as the blood only covered over sins until Yom Kippur came and removed them, so we in HaShem's timeline are waiting for the spiritual fulfillment of such. What you cannot perceive without His Spirit, is that everything that He gave our people is being spiritually fulfilled since then, according to His timeline. Peace

Bright Raven · Jan 12, 2016

The law is no longer necessary. There are the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles to include Paul by which we live today. The law is passed away.

OCTOBER23 · Jan 12, 2016

Ben Masada,

Neither can you change the Sinful Nature that dwells in you it seems.

Have you ever sinned and broken a Law ???????

Have you ever written things in an acting like a Predator yourself ???????

Hmmmmm, moishela babela.

patrick jane · Jan 12, 2016

another anti Christian thread from Ben

another anti Christian thread from Ben

Ben Masada said:
Did Paul Follow God's Law as a Believer?

No! Absolutely not. He followed God's Law as a predator follows the victim: To destroy it. If you read Romans 7:9-25, the Law served only to bring death to him. (v.8) Without the Law, Paul could live in sin without any pain of conscience but after he read about the Law, sin revived and caused his life to become unbearable to live since to live meant death to him. (v.9)

Somehow, Paul knew that the Law is spiritual but, what could he do if he was carnal, sold under sin? (v.14) It seemed that Paul had got so accustomed to the way he used to live before that, after he found out from the Law that it was sinful, he started hating to have to live that way but he would do all the same. (v.15) Then he arrived to the conclusion of how sinful was to live that way but he could not change the sinful condition that dwelt in him. (v.17)

What had become an unbearable struggle for Paul was to love God's Law in his mind while serving the law of sin in his flesh. (v.22,23) Therefore, he considered himself a wretched man who could find no deliverance from the body of death that forced him to serve the Law of God in his mind only while serving sin in his flesh. (v. 24,25)

All the above is about the famous sinful thorn on the side of Paul. Do you have any idea what could it have been? I can't be more specific here than I have been, and tell you what every thing was about Paul but, one more thing I feel allowed to add. Paul had been born on the wrong time in History. Had he been born today, he would not have to live under such sinful repressed feelings which made his life so miserable.

Paul was a devout Jew and did follow OT law. He showed it over and over again throughout his epistles. You are blind !

patrick jane · Jan 12, 2016

RBBI said:
Paul is explaining the condition of ALL MEN after the fall and after the law came, in comparison to what came after. Sin is not just a verb, it's a noun also. It's a principality that cannot be overcome through the law alone, which is why the Spirit was poured out.

What he is saying is, that since he acquired the Spirit, he has become aware of this struggle within himself with this principality, and THAT IS the thorn in his flesh. He could not get it removed, because he was a man born out of season, privy to revelation * that was not to be fulfilled during his time in a physical body (*the redemption of the body Romans 8 speaks of).

Just as the blood only covered over sins until Yom Kippur came and removed them, so we in HaShem's timeline are waiting for the spiritual fulfillment of such. What you cannot perceive without His Spirit, is that everything that He gave our people is being spiritually fulfilled since then, according to His timeline. Peace

Paul spoke of the sinful nature of man and that Christ is the end of the law.

Romans 10:4 KJV -

glorydaz · Jan 12, 2016

Ben Masada said:
Did Paul Follow God's Law as a Believer?

No! Absolutely not. He followed God's Law as a predator follows the victim: To destroy it. If you read Romans 7:9-25, the Law served only to bring death to him. (v.8) Without the Law, Paul could live in sin without any pain of conscience but after he read about the Law, sin revived and caused his life to become unbearable to live since to live meant death to him. (v.9)

Somehow, Paul knew that the Law is spiritual but, what could he do if he was carnal, sold under sin? (v.14) It seemed that Paul had got so accustomed to the way he used to live before that, after he found out from the Law that it was sinful, he started hating to have to live that way but he would do all the same. (v.15) Then he arrived to the conclusion of how sinful was to live that way but he could not change the sinful condition that dwelt in him. (v.17)

What had become an unbearable struggle for Paul was to love God's Law in his mind while serving the law of sin in his flesh. (v.22,23) Therefore, he considered himself a wretched man who could find no deliverance from the body of death that forced him to serve the Law of God in his mind only while serving sin in his flesh. (v. 24,25)

All the above is about the famous sinful thorn on the side of Paul. Do you have any idea what could it have been? I can't be more specific here than I have been, and tell you what every thing was about Paul but, one more thing I feel allowed to add. Paul had been born on the wrong time in History. Had he been born today, he would not have to live under such sinful repressed feelings which made his life so miserable.

There was no "unbearable struggle for Paul"....who could do all things through Christ who strengthened him.

The "wretched man" was Paul under the law. The law was NEVER meant to justify, sanctify, or give life, as the Jews believed it could.

Once he discovered that it was the law that gave sin it's power, he found God's grace could do "what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh..." Thanks be to God, that "the Law of the Spirit of LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS, has made us free from the Law of Sin and Death."

Ben Masada · Jan 13, 2016

Bright Raven said:
The law is no longer necessary. There are the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles to include Paul by which we live today. The law is passed away.

Now, you are implying that Jesus was a liar when he said in Mat. 5:18 that till heaven and earth pass away, not a single commandment of the Law will pass away. Heaven and earth are still around. Jesus has proved he was right and not the way you have implied.

Ben Masada · Jan 13, 2016

OCTOBER23 said:
Ben Masada,

Neither can you change the Sinful Nature that dwells in you it seems.

Have you ever sinned and broken a Law ???????

Have you ever written things in an acting like a Predator yourself ???????

Hmmmmm, moishela babela.

Yes, but the Lord in his mercy has provided us with the chance to set things right with Him so that our sins from scarlet red become as white as snow. (Isaiah 1:18,19)

Ben Masada · Jan 13, 2016

patrick jane said:
Paul was a devout Jew and did follow OT law. He showed it over and over again throughout his epistles. You are blind !

And you perhaps have been born already blind. Paul declared that he had been released from the Law. (Rom. 7:6) He even lied against Jesus when this said that he had not come to abolish the Law and Paul said that the Law was abolished on the cross. (Ephes. 2:15) More so when Paul said that Jesus was the end of the Law. (Rom. 10:4) Still more when Paul would preach against circumcision by teaching even the Jewish parents themselves to stop circumcising their children. (Acts 21:21) There are many more but, that's enough!

Ben Masada · Jan 13, 2016

glorydaz said:
There was no "unbearable struggle for Paul"....who could do all things through Christ who strengthened him.

The "wretched man" was Paul under the law. The law was NEVER meant to justify, sanctify, or give life, as the Jews believed it could.

Once he discovered that it was the law that gave sin it's power, he found God's grace could do "what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh..." Thanks be to God, that "the Law of the Spirit of LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS, has made us free from the Law of Sin and Death."

God's Law was not a Law of sin and death but a Law as a results of God's grace so that we may live in society and not under the law of the jungle.

Read Psalm 119. The Law is what gives life to man. Then, you contest that Paul could do all things in Christ. I saw when I read Rom. 7:25. He could even serve two masters: God's Law in his mind only while serving sin in his flesh. That's the climax of hypocrisy.

Ben Masada · Jan 13, 2016

glorydaz said:
There was no "unbearable struggle for Paul"....who could do all things through Christ who strengthened him.

The "wretched man" was Paul under the law. The law was NEVER meant to justify, sanctify, or give life, as the Jews believed it could.

Once he discovered that it was the law that gave sin it's power, he found God's grace could do "what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh..." Thanks be to God, that "the Law of the Spirit of LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS, has made us free from the Law of Sin and Death."

Indeed, Paul considered himself a wretched man because he found out with the Law that the way he used to live was sinful. He wanted to quit but he found impossible as he had grown up a Hellenist where to live the way he used to was sinful but, he had become used to and could not stop. The life of a Hellenist was completely amoral. Not according to the laws among the Jews. Now, as a Jew with knowledge of the Law, Paul wanted to change and he could not. Hence, he considered himself a wretched man. That's all in Rom. 7:8-25.

heir · Jan 13, 2016

Ben Masada said:
Did Paul Follow God's Law as a Believer?

Paul followed the law before getting saved!

Philippians 3:4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

Philippians 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Philippians 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Philippians 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

Philippians 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

The gospel Paul received is the righteousness of God without the law:

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

...

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

..As you can read and see above the righteousness of God is revealed in the gospel of Christ and the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe. It's time you trust the Lord believing IT!

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

achduke · Jan 13, 2016

heir said:
Paul followed the law before getting saved!

Philippians 3:4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

Philippians 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Philippians 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Philippians 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

Philippians 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

The gospel Paul received is the righteousness of God without the law:

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

...

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

..As you can read and see above the righteousness of God is revealed in the gospel of Christ and the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe. It's time you trust the Lord believing IT!

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Paul followed the Law of the Pharisees perfectly, not the Law of God.

Ben Masada · Jan 13, 2016

heir said:
Paul followed the law before getting saved!

The gospel Paul received is the righteousness of God without the law:

As you can read and see above the righteousness of God is revealed in the gospel of Christ and the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe. It's time you trust the Lord believing IT!.

Paul could never be saved as long as he served two masters: God in his mind and sin in his flesh. (Rom. 7:25; Mat. 6:24)

The Lord would never grant His Righteousness to an outlaw.

The gospel of Jesus was the gospel of righteousness aka the Law. The Law and the Prophets as we have in Mat. 5:17-19.

patrick jane · Jan 13, 2016

Ben Masada said:
And you perhaps have been born already blind. Paul declared that he had been released from the Law. (Rom. 7:6) He even lied against Jesus when this said that he had not come to abolish the Law and Paul said that the Law was abolished on the cross. (Ephes. 2:15) More so when Paul said that Jesus was the end of the Law. (Rom. 10:4) Still more when Paul would preach against circumcision by teaching even the Jewish parents themselves to stop circumcising their children. (Acts 21:21) There are many more but, that's enough!

Nope. Paul was fine, he's pretty cool :rapture:

Ben Masada · Jan 13, 2016

patrick jane said:
Nope. Paul was fine, he's pretty cool :rapture:

Why, because he was the founder of your church? (Acts 11:26) He was a Hellenist who served two masters: God in his mind and sin in his flesh. (Rom. 7:25) Regardless of what Jesus had said that no one can serve two masters. (Mat. 6:24).

heir · Jan 13, 2016

Ben Masada said:
Paul could never be saved as long as he served two masters: God in his mind and sin in his flesh. (Rom. 7:25; Mat. 6:24)

Actually, he could not have been forgiven in that world (when the Lord walked the earth) neither in the world to come as he was a blasphemer against the Holy Ghost (Matthew 12:31-32 KJV). That is, unless God was going to use him first, as a pattern to them which should thereafter ("hereafter") believe on Him to life everlasting and that's exactly what we see (1 Timothy 1:16 KJV)! We are not in the time past or ages to come, but the "but now" where the righteousness of God without the law is manifested (Romans 3:21 KJV), even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe (Romans 3:22 KJV)! This is how Paul can say:

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

john w · Jan 13, 2016

Ben Masada said:
All the above is about the famous sinful thorn on the side of Paul. Do you have any idea what could it have been? I can't be more specific here than I have been, and tell you what every thing was about Paul but, one more thing I feel allowed to add. Paul had been born on the wrong time in History. Had he been born today, he would not have to live under such sinful repressed feelings which made his life so miserable.

This is a reference to people who opposed Paul's message, as "thorn in the flesh" was a common figure of speech at the time, akin to today's "a pain in the neck."

"But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell." Numbers 33:55 KJV

Notice "those."

"Know for a certainty that the LORD your God will no more drive out any of these nations from before you; but they shall be snares and traps unto you, and scourges in your sides, and thorns in your eyes, until ye perish from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you." Joshua 23:13 KJV

Notice "they."

"Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you." Judges 2:3 KJV

Notice "they."

Survey this great book.

glorydaz · Jan 13, 2016

john w said:
This is a reference to people who opposed Paul's message, as "thorn in the flesh" was a common figure of speech at the time, akin to today's "a pain in the neck."

"But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell." Numbers 33:55 KJV

Notice "those."

"Know for a certainty that the LORD your God will no more drive out any of these nations from before you; but they shall be snares and traps unto you, and scourges in your sides, and thorns in your eyes, until ye perish from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you." Joshua 23:13 KJV

Notice "they."

"Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you." Judges 2:3 KJV

Notice "they."

Survey this great book.

Truth. :first:

Did Paul Follow God's Law as a Believer?

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