ECT NT words/terms must be defined by considering the whole NT

ZacharyB · Oct 21, 2015

Belief
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)
This is ridiculous unless you understand what the NT means by “believe”,
which is to truly believe in your heart, have faith in, trust, and obey.
(Evangelist T. L. Osborne was the first I know of who fully researched this out.)
If a person does these things … he/she truly is a believer in Christ and His words!
Many passages teach us that obedience is necessary for salvation.

Faith
Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
(Gal 3:6)
And “the just shall live by faith” (Gal 3:11) and “we might be justified by faith.”
(Gal 3:24)
Awesome, but there is more to faith than this!
“For in Christ Jesus (nothing) avails anything, but faith working through love.”
(Gal 5:6)

Grace
“For by grace you have been saved through faith … it is the gift of God” (Eph 2:8)
Terrific, but there is more to grace than this (it can be lost)!
Paul writes to Jewish Christians (males only!) who decided they needed to be circumcised:
“You have been estranged from Christ … you have fallen from grace.”(Gal 5:4)

Sons of God
“For you are all sons of God through faith in Jesus Christ.” (Gal 3:26)
Wonderful, but there is more to being sons/daughters than this!
“For as many as are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.” (Rom 8:14)

Righteousness
“… the righteousness from God, through faith in Jesus Christ,
to all who believe.” (Rom 3:22)
Super, except there is more to righteousness than this!
Many passages insist one’s righteousness must be maintained, but my personal favorite is:
"Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are
that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death,
or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)
A new one has just popped up, Praise God …
“For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.”
(Gal 5:5)
Yes, if you have faith, you may (through the Spirit) eagerly hope for righteousness!

Do you see from this very quick and small sampling that …
• ALL of the NT must be taken into account to understand what the words/terms mean.
• ALL of what the NT says about believers is conditional upon their co-operation with God.
So, perhaps you should turn off the TV and find out what the NT is really saying!

P.S. -- Just couldn’t resist practicing a hobby of mine, poetry:
Truly believe in your heart; have faith in Jesus, trust Him, and obey.
And your righteousness must be maintained and not thrown away.
(This one has not yet been copyrighted, so you may use it as often as you wish.)

1Way1Truth1Life · Oct 22, 2015

Yes. God brought me through such word studies on my own. There was always something that just didn't fit with the whole of the NT with how certain words were defined by certain men and their man made doctrines. So God had me do such word studies such as how you point out of taking the whole of the NT and not just one verse and word and making a whole doctrine out of just that without understanding what God was fully saying throughout His entire Word. Jesus is the logos/Reason/Logic of God not man. So God brought me to seek His Logic, His Reason and not man's. And then the whole NT and OT made sense.

Clete · Oct 22, 2015

ZacharyB said:
Belief
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)
This is ridiculous unless you understand what the NT means by “believe”,
which is to truly believe in your heart, have faith in, trust, and obey.
(Evangelist T. L. Osborne was the first I know of who fully researched this out.)
If a person does these things … he/she truly is a believer in Christ and His words!
Many passages teach us that obedience is necessary for salvation.

Faith
Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
(Gal 3:6)
And “the just shall live by faith” (Gal 3:11) and “we might be justified by faith.”
(Gal 3:24)
Awesome, but there is more to faith than this!
“For in Christ Jesus (nothing) avails anything, but faith working through love.”
(Gal 5:6)

Grace
“For by grace you have been saved through faith … it is the gift of God” (Eph 2:8)
Terrific, but there is more to grace than this (it can be lost)!
Paul writes to Jewish Christians (males only!) who decided they needed to be circumcised:
“You have been estranged from Christ … you have fallen from grace.”(Gal 5:4)

Sons of God
“For you are all sons of God through faith in Jesus Christ.” (Gal 3:26)
Wonderful, but there is more to being sons/daughters than this!
“For as many as are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.” (Rom 8:14)

Righteousness
“… the righteousness from God, through faith in Jesus Christ,
to all who believe.” (Rom 3:22)
Super, except there is more to righteousness than this!
Many passages insist one’s righteousness must be maintained, but my personal favorite is:
"Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are
that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death,
or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)
A new one has just popped up, Praise God …
“For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.”
(Gal 5:5)
Yes, if you have faith, you may (through the Spirit) eagerly hope for righteousness!

Do you see from this very quick and small sampling that …
• ALL of the NT must be taken into account to understand what the words/terms mean.
• ALL of what the NT says about believers is conditional upon their co-operation with God.
So, perhaps you should turn off the TV and find out what the NT is really saying!

P.S. -- Just couldn’t resist practicing a hobby of mine, poetry:
Truly believe in your heart; have faith in Jesus, trust Him, and obey.
And your righteousness must be maintained and not thrown away.
(This one has not yet been copyrighted, so you may use it as often as you wish.)

If it is your point that one must work to maintain righteousness and therefore one's salvation, you've gotten Paul's entire ministry upside down and backward. It is believing that is credited to you as righteousness. Believing what, you ask? That God became a man and died to pay your sin debt and that God raised Him from the dead. Paul states it explicitly...

Romans 4:4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

Romans 10: 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Resting in Him,
Clete

ZacharyB · Oct 22, 2015

Clete said:
If it is your point that
one must work to maintain righteousness and therefore one's salvation,
you've gotten Paul's entire ministry upside down and backward.

I guess you haven't seen all of the verses that teach the red.
But, the work you refer to actually refers to
co-operating with God the Holy Spirit.

Walking in the Spirit (with what that entails) is merely our reasonable service:
"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God,
that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God,
which is your reasonable service." (Romans 12:1)

There are many warnings to the churches that:
-- eternal life can be lost
-- eternal death can be gained
-- entering the kingdom of God can be denied
-- one's name in the Book of Life can be removed
-- etc.
But, somehow you haven't seen them!

Tambora · Oct 22, 2015

Clete said:
If it is your point that one must work to maintain righteousness and therefore one's salvation, you've gotten Paul's entire ministry upside down and backward. It is believing that is credited to you as righteousness. Believing what, you ask? That God became a man and died to pay your sin debt and that God raised Him from the dead. Paul states it explicitly...

Romans 4:4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

Romans 10: 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Resting in Him,
Clete

Indeed!
If one is relying on their own righteousness, they are relying on the wrong person.

Romans 5 KJV
(18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

HINT: That one ain't you.

ZacharyB · Oct 22, 2015

Tambora said:
If one is relying on their own righteousness, they are relying on the wrong person.

Co-operating with God the Holy Spirit is necessary for salvation.

This is NOT the doing of any works of the Law,
good works, good deeds, relying on oneself, etc.

It is merely obedience to Jesus' commandments,
which is what true belief, faith, and trust is all about.

"Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
(slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, or
(slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?
... so now present your members as slaves of
righteousness for (leading to) holiness." (Romans 6:16-19)

Jamie Gigliotti · Oct 22, 2015

1Way1Truth1Life said:
Yes. God brought me through such word studies on my own. There was always something that just didn't fit with the whole of the NT with how certain words were defined by certain men and their man made doctrines. So God had me do such word studies such as how you point out of taking the whole of the NT and not just one verse and word and making a whole doctrine out of just that without understanding what God was fully saying throughout His entire Word. Jesus is the logos/Reason/Logic of God not man. So God brought me to seek His Logic, His Reason and not man's. And then the whole NT and OT made sense.

The Holy Spirit is the guider of truth!

Jamie Gigliotti · Oct 22, 2015

ZacharyB said:
Belief
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)
This is ridiculous unless you understand what the NT means by “believe”,
which is to truly believe in your heart, have faith in, trust, and obey.
(Evangelist T. L. Osborne was the first I know of who fully researched this out.)
If a person does these things … he/she truly is a believer in Christ and His words!
Many passages teach us that obedience is necessary for salvation.

Faith
Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
(Gal 3:6)
And “the just shall live by faith” (Gal 3:11) and “we might be justified by faith.”
(Gal 3:24)
Awesome, but there is more to faith than this!
“For in Christ Jesus (nothing) avails anything, but faith working through love.”
(Gal 5:6)

Grace
“For by grace you have been saved through faith … it is the gift of God” (Eph 2:8)
Terrific, but there is more to grace than this (it can be lost)!
Paul writes to Jewish Christians (males only!) who decided they needed to be circumcised:
“You have been estranged from Christ … you have fallen from grace.”(Gal 5:4)

Sons of God
“For you are all sons of God through faith in Jesus Christ.” (Gal 3:26)
Wonderful, but there is more to being sons/daughters than this!
“For as many as are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.” (Rom 8:14)

Righteousness
“… the righteousness from God, through faith in Jesus Christ,
to all who believe.” (Rom 3:22)
Super, except there is more to righteousness than this!
Many passages insist one’s righteousness must be maintained, but my personal favorite is:
"Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are
that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death,
or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)
A new one has just popped up, Praise God …
“For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.”
(Gal 5:5)
Yes, if you have faith, you may (through the Spirit) eagerly hope for righteousness!

Do you see from this very quick and small sampling that …
• ALL of the NT must be taken into account to understand what the words/terms mean.
• ALL of what the NT says about believers is conditional upon their co-operation with God.
So, perhaps you should turn off the TV and find out what the NT is really saying!

P.S. -- Just couldn’t resist practicing a hobby of mine, poetry:
Truly believe in your heart; have faith in Jesus, trust Him, and obey.
And your righteousness must be maintained and not thrown away.
(This one has not yet been copyrighted, so you may use it as often as you wish.)

There are no contradictions in the Gospel message.
"If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing." 1 Timothy 6:3-4

Paul doesn't hold back any punches.

False Prophet · Oct 22, 2015

Don't you think you should begin with the beginning of the book? example: Gen 1:1

Livelystone · Oct 22, 2015

1Way1Truth1Life said:
Yes. God brought me through such word studies on my own. There was always something that just didn't fit with the whole of the NT with how certain words were defined by certain men and their man made doctrines. So God had me do such word studies such as how you point out of taking the whole of the NT and not just one verse and word and making a whole doctrine out of just that without understanding what God was fully saying throughout His entire Word. Jesus is the logos/Reason/Logic of God not man. So God brought me to seek His Logic, His Reason and not man's. And then the whole NT and OT made sense.

It is good that you have broken from the man made doctrine of keeping everything in context.

However, I would encourage you to expand context to all of the Bible starting with Ge.1 and ending with Re.22

For that matter terms such as "rightly dividing the word", "no prophecy of scripture can be determined through private interpretation", "in the mouth of two or three witnesses every truth may be determined", etc etc (my paraphrase on these quotes but close enough to be recognized) are nothing more than the sum of OT laws given to Moses and other prophets for determining the truth being repeated in NT language

Here is a study I wrote years ago that is still ahead of its time with most of the church. However, with you already on the right path for how to gain Godly wisdom, it just may be the study that will help to open up the deepest kept secrets of the Bible

Blessings,

Doug

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76526

Tambora · Oct 22, 2015

ZacharyB said:
Co-operating with God the Holy Spirit is necessary for salvation.

You still don't get it.

Tambora said:
Indeed!
If one is relying on their own righteousness, they are relying on the wrong person.

Romans 5 KJV
(18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

HINT: That one ain't you.

Your cooperation is not included in the one.

It's by the righteousness of one, not two.

Ask Mr. Religion · Oct 22, 2015

ZacharyB said:
ALL of the NT must be taken into account to understand what the words/terms mean.

Ok. A short sampling:

Isaiah 43:1-3, Jeremiah 32:40, John 3:16, John 3:36, John 5:24, John 6:35-40, John 6:47, John 6:51, John 10:27-30, John 11:25, John 14:21, John 15:1-11, John 17:12, John 17:15, Romans 8:29-30, Romans 8:35-39, Ephesians 1:5, Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 2:10 God's workmanship, Ephesians 4:30, Hebrews 5:11-6:12, Philippians 1:6, Philippians 2:12-13, Philippians 3:12-15, 1 Corinthians 1:8 , 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, 2 Timothy 1:12, 2 Timothy 4:18, 1 Peter 1:3-5, 1 Peter 1:23, 1 Peter 5:10, 2 Peter 2:10, 1 John 2:19, 1 John 2:25, 1 John 3:9, 1 John 5:13, 1 John 5:18, Jude 24-25.

Conclusion:
Since God is the Author and Finisher of our faith, man cannot fall away from eternal salvation. Once a man has been born-again he cannot be unborn-again. Furthermore, the children of God will definitely manifest evidences of their salvation by means of good works. The believer shall, by the grace of God and without exception, ultimately persevere in righteousness. The eternal security of the believer in the Lord Jesus Christ is demonstrated by the persevering faith and righteousness wrought by the grace of God in His little begotten ones.

Q.E.D.

AMR

Clete · Oct 22, 2015

Tambora said:
You still don't get it.

Your cooperation is not included in the one.

It's by the righteousness of one, not two.

This is exactly right!

There is nothing for me to do. It is finished. I AM righteous, in Christ and cannot be otherwise no matter what. I did not accomplish my righteousness and am utterly incapable of undoing it because it is not my righteousness to begin with. For I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

HOW CAN A DEAD MAN COOPERATE WITH ANYTHING?

"To ‘hope to be better’ [hence acceptable] is to fail to see yourself in Christ only.

"To be disappointed with yourself, is to have believed in yourself.

"To be discouraged is unbelief,—as to God’s purpose and plan of blessing for you.

"To be proud, is to be blind! For we have no standing before God, in ourselves.

"The lack of Divine blessing, therefore, comes from unbelief, and not from failure of devotion…

"To preach devotion first, and blessing second, is to reverse God’s order, and preach law, not grace. The Law made man’s blessing depend on devotion; Grace confers undeserved, unconditional blessing: our devotion may follow, but does not always do so,—in proper measure."

Have we been afraid to really believe God? Have some even been afraid to allow others to really believe Him? We must never forget that "God’s ways are not always man’s ways. To some men constant peril is the only spur to action, and many religions and psychologies are dependent on fear to keep their disciples in line. Fear, too, has a place in Christianity, but God has higher and more effective motivations than fear, and one of these is love. Often fear after a while produces only numbness, but love thrives on love. To promise a man the certainty of his destiny may seem, on the human level, like playing with fire; but this leaves God out of the picture. Those who have the deepest appreciation of grace do not continue in sin. Moreover, fear produces the obedience of slaves; love engenders the obedience of sons" (J. W. Sanderson, Jr.) - Principles of Spiritual Growth By Miles J. Stanford.

Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

Resting in Him,
Clete

Lazy afternoon · Oct 22, 2015

Faith is a relationship between two persons.

Christ is seeking the co-operation of another person with Him.

If the surrender of our will to His, in ongoing events is not required then that is not the truth.

Even Jesus was still submitting His will to God not long before His crucifixion.

Why would we think it unnecessary for us to do the same, considering that we are advised to walk in his steps.

Maybe some do not realize that the spirit of anti-Christ is the spirit we see in Judas who believed, had a part in the ministry, but did not surrender his heart to the words of Christ.

None are exempt from having to lay down our lives as Christ did His, in order to overcome and be in the first resurrection.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

LA

1Way1Truth1Life · Oct 23, 2015

Jamie Gigliotti said:
The Holy Spirit is the guider of truth!

Yes! Too many teach and practice the world's ways of looking to man as the guider of truth instead. That way just didn't make sense to me as it is contrary to what God says and what God says is the Way. It's powerless. And too many will only give lip service to the Holy Spirit being the guider, but in practice will go to man's way as the guider. That didn't make sense to me either. Just as powerless.

1Way1Truth1Life · Oct 23, 2015

Livelystone said:
It is good that you have broken from the man made doctrine of keeping everything in context.

However, I would encourage you to expand context to all of the Bible starting with Ge.1 and ending with Re.22

For that matter terms such as "rightly dividing the word", "no prophecy of scripture can be determined through private interpretation", "in the mouth of two or three witnesses every truth may be determined", etc etc (my paraphrase on these quotes but close enough to be recognized) are nothing more than the sum of OT laws given to Moses and other prophets for determining the truth being repeated in NT language

Here is a study I wrote years ago that is still ahead of its time with most of the church. However, with you already on the right path for how to gain Godly wisdom, it just may be the study that will help to open up the deepest kept secrets of the Bible

Blessings,

Doug

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76526

You make a lot of inflamitory presumptions and ignoring of things i said. And I will not even bother responding to those inflamitory presumptions as they are not worth it. But I will clarify a little what I was saying. My last sentence was how the OT and NT made sense IE that i read and study the entire BiBle. The word studies have been in Koine Greek as well as Hebrew in the NT as well as the OT as well as of course in English. I have done a few years of Koine Greek study and own several copies of Koine Greeks Bibles. When I was referencing the NT in my post I was not meaning I only study/studied the NT, rather was refering to scripture of the NT and New Covenant of Jesus Christ explained in the NT, IE. the Gospel. I also made mention of using the entire Bible for understanding of what God was saying, not just pulling one scripture of the NT out of context and making doctrine out of it that doesn't line up with the entire Word of God.

Livelystone · Oct 23, 2015

1Way1Truth1Life said:
You make a lot of inflamitory presumptions and ignoring of things i said. And I will not even bother responding to those inflamitory presumptions as they are not worth it. But I will clarify a little what I was saying. My last sentence was how the OT and NT made sense IE that i read and study the entire BiBle. The word studies have been in Koine Greek as well as Hebrew in the NT as well as the OT as well as of course in English. I have done a few years of Koine Greek study and own several copies of Koine Greeks Bibles. When I was referencing the NT in my post I was not meaning I only study/studied the NT, rather was refering to scripture of the NT and New Covenant of Jesus Christ explained in the NT, IE. the Gospel. I also made mention of using the entire Bible for understanding of what God was saying, not just pulling one scripture of the NT out of context and making doctrine out of it that doesn't line up with the entire Word of God.

To bad you took that as in insult, especially since you do not have the first clue about how to apply the laws for determining the truth and for clean food given to Moses to prove or disprove all doctrines taught in the church today.

1Way1Truth1Life · Oct 23, 2015

Livelystone said:
To bad you took that as in insult, especially since you do not have the first clue about how to apply the laws for determining the truth and for clean food given to Moses to prove or disprove all doctrines taught in the church today.

More inflamitory presumptions. Nice.

Livelystone · Oct 23, 2015

1Way1Truth1Life said:
More inflamitory presumptions. Nice.

Maybe I need to take a sensitivity course for how not to give credit to where there is some hope............ had I known you carry everything on your shoulder I would have given thought to sugar coating and saying pretty please

The fact that you have broken from the devils lair of keeping everything in context seemed to me you might be ready to go where very few have.

Time will tell

ZacharyB · Oct 23, 2015

Ask Mr. Religion said:
Since God is the Author and Finisher of our faith, man cannot fall away from eternal salvation.

Then, it will be no problem for you to explain why there are
so many verses warning of what you say is impossible.
We're waiting.
Of course, I hope you are correct.
Will you be going the rewards route?

ECT NT words/terms must be defined by considering the whole NT

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