ECT The resurrection... specifically, the rapture.

Jacob

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Is the resurrection the same as the rapture?

There is also mention of a first resurrection.

There is a resurrection of the righteous and of the wicked.

Is there a later resurrection.

Specifically, in looking at the rapture, my question is:

Do the dead in Christ rise immediately prior to those alive in Christ meaning Him in the air?

Some believe when they die if they are a Christian they go straight to heaven. Is there any scriptural support for this?

Has Christ already or will Christ ever reign upon the earth?

Will believers or believing Jews reign with Him, or is our reign only likened unto Christ's in heaven which we know of already (perhaps this is already the case since He was seated or in fact is seated or at the right hand of God in heaven)?
 

Jacob

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1 Corinthians 15:51 NASB - Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,

1 Corinthians 15:52 NASB - in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:53 NASB - For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:54 NASB - But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.
 

Jacob

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1 Thessalonians 4:16 NASB - For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 NASB - Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
 

fzappa13

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Not trying to tell you your business but I think you have four or five threads crowded into one here.
 

Jacob

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Not trying to tell you your business but I think you have four or five threads crowded into one here.
I highlighted the specific question, and the verses are how I know or what is relevant to that question. The other questions are the backdrop and all (excuse me, what) I know to the point I am bringing up or asking about.
 
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fzappa13

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I highlighted the specific question, and the verses are how I know or what is relevant to that question. The other questions are the backdrop and all (excuse me, what) I know to the point I am bringing up or asking about.

If I understand what you have said correctly then you have this worked out to your satisfaction already and your question is, at best, rhetorical.
 

Livelystone

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The odds of a physical removal of believers off of the earth in anything remotely resembling current rapture/left behind scenarios are considerably greater than the man in the moon being real.
 

Jacob

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If I understand what you have said correctly then you have this worked out to your satisfaction already and your question is, at best, rhetorical.
That is not the case. The other questions I put forward should indicate this to you.
 

Jacob

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The odds of a physical removal of believers off of the earth in anything remotely resembling current rapture/left behind scenarios are considerably greater than the man in the moon being real.
Can you level with me on the subject?
 

fzappa13

Well-known member

Do the dead in Christ rise immediately prior to those alive in Christ meaning Him in the air?

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.


Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 20: 1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 

Livelystone

New member
Can you level with me on the subject?

God's entire plan is for man on earth to become in the image and after the likeness of "us" who is the sevenfold spirit of God as listed in Isa.11:2.

Adam started out this way but within a few verses ended up only being in the image of God who is Spirit with a Soul the same as man is spirit with a soul (albeit man's spirit and soul is contained within a physical body while God's is not)

Adam's sin was no surprise to God and this was all part of God's master plan for evil to take on sin that got it condemned to death allowing those who overcome as Jesus overcame to live eternally without evil because it already died the sentence it was given way back in the garden some 6000 biblical years ago

Jesus is the alfa (beginning) and the omega (end).......... He is a brother from a different mother of Adam (mankind) and is both the image and likeness of how mankind will eventually (the end) become on earth that will be when His original commandment will be fulfilled

Meanwhile, for any doctrine to teach the taking of the only persons off of the earth whom have been given the power to become sons of God is contrary to God's entire purpose of having these sons manifested by Him for the purpose of glorifying Him through offering up the kingdoms of the world, (currently under satan's authority) is not only totally absurd, it is contrary to God Plan and spoken Word that will never return void (not fulfilled) 1Cor.15:22-28 KJV

I can go on and on about how the nonsense of the rapture is Satan's most successful coup pulled off on the church

I could explain how the taking of Zion (Isa.4:5 KJV) is the spiritual prophecy of those meeting with the Lord in the clouds whom the rapture is an allegory of.

I could point out how seven times the Bible say's "My Lord said to my Lord, sit here at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool".......... it does not say seven times "except for when I send you most of the way back to take off of the earth the only persons there who can overcome your enemies and bring them back here".

I could point out how Jesus taught us to pray for the kingdom of heaven to come to earth and not the other way around as taught by the church's doctrine of the rapture

I could go on forever with reasons to throw the teaching of the rapture right back where it came from.......... satan's mouth spoken through the tail of the dragon that is the false prophets of the modern day clergy who teach this cursed lie to sheep too stupid to look and see for themselves what our Father has offered for those who truly love Him.

I could go on and on and on, however, if people do not learn how to discern for themselves the clean from the unclean, I am wasting my time.
 
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Jacob

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The other questions you put forward are maybe not so directly related as you think and address subjects that are maybe related but separate, I think.
It is the results of the teaching I have received, my personal investigation into scripture, and the theological position of questioning or questions from which I ask this particular question. They contain within them the reasons why I ask and what needs to be unraveled if I am to receive an answer. That is how I see it. I'm basically saying I need help and I am not hiding anything.
 

Jacob

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God's entire plan is for man on earth to become in the image and after the likeness of "us" who is the sevenfold spirit of God as listed in Isa.11:2.

Adam started out this way but within a few verses ended up only being in the image of God who is Spirit with a Soul the same as man is spirit with a soul (albeit man's spirit and soul is contained within a physical body while God's is not)

Adam's sin was no surprise to God and this was all part of God's master plan for evil to take on sin that got it condemned to death allowing those who overcome as Jesus overcame to live eternally without evil because it already died the sentence it was given way back in the garden some 6000 biblical years ago

Jesus is the alfa (beginning) and the omega (end).......... He is a brother from a different mother of Adam (mankind) and is both the image and likeness of how mankind will eventually (the end) become on earth that will be when His original commandment will be fulfilled

Meanwhile, for any doctrine to teach the taking of the only persons off of the earth whom have been given the power to become sons of God is contrary to God's entire purpose of having these sons manifested by Him for the purpose of glorifying Him through offering up the kingdoms of the world, (currently under satan's authority) is not only totally absurd, it is contrary to God Plan and spoken Word that will never return void (not fulfilled) 1Cor.15:22-28 KJV

I can go on and on about how the nonsense of the rapture is Satan's most successful coup pulled off on the church

I could explain how the taking of Zion (Isa.4:5 KJV) is the spiritual prophecy of those meeting with the Lord in the clouds whom the rapture is an allegory of.

I could point out how seven times the Bible say's "My Lord said to my Lord, sit here at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool".......... it does not say seven times "except for when I send you most of the way back to take off of the earth the only persons there who can overcome your enemies and bring them back here".

I could point out how Jesus taught us to pray for the kingdom of heaven to come to earth and not the other way around as taught by the church's doctrine of the rapture

I could go on forever with reasons to throw the teaching of the rapture right back where it came from.......... satan's mouth spoken through the tail of the dragon that is the false prophets of the modern day clergy who teach this cursed lie to sheep too stupid to look and see for themselves what our Father has offered for those who truly love Him.

I could go on and on and on, however, if people do not learn how to discern for themselves the clean from the unclean, I am wasting my time.
I don't know what you are talking about. I need simple scripture.
 

Jacob

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Banned
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.


Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 20: 1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
How does this answer the question?
 

Livelystone

New member
I don't know what you are talking about. I need simple scripture.

So pray tell, what is the problem within the simplicity of the scriptures and explanations I have given you?

If what I took the time to write to you does not make sense, (if you took it to heart and to God) then you need to seek much harder from above.......... maybe fasting is in order for you, I said the latter because I heard in my spirit it would help you.

Otherwise, and despite how much I would like to I cannot help you no matter how much you seek for it.
 

Jacob

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So pray tell, what is the problem within the simplicity of the scriptures and explanations I have given you?

If what I took the time to write to you does not make sense, (if you took it to heart and to God) then you need to seek much harder from above.......... maybe fasting is in order for you, I said the latter because I heard in my spirit it would help you.

Otherwise, and despite how much I would like to I cannot help you no matter how much you seek for it.
I do not need to submit to you in regard for fasting just because you point out that I didn't understand what you said.

Thank you for trying. I wish you could help. I know I need help with this. I would need even more help understanding what you wrote.
 

Livelystone

New member
I do not need to submit to you in regard for fasting just because you point out that I didn't understand what you said.

Thank you for trying. I wish you could help. I know I need help with this. I would need even more help understanding what you wrote.

For sure my reply was nothing about submitting to me but stressing yourself into needing the mercy of God to answer what you are asking of Him............... otherwise why fast????????????????????????

Unfortunately I am afraid this too is not understandable to you

I wish you the best
 
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