The Mystery of Christ

haven't been here long, but i see much bickering. this thread will be some of the things we should discuss and spread. i type slow - this will take me all night. started @ 8:37 pm. first, we MUST RIGHTLY DIVIDE. if you don't like that term, try - using reason, the brain God gave us, logic, thought and meditation. CONTENT and CONTEXT. common sense. rightly divide. if you don't like the words mid-acts or dispensation, or Paul's Gospel, it is simply a revelation GIVEN TO Paul, from Jesus Christ AFTER the Crucifixion. there are MANY Mysteries in The Bible. ALL we need to know has been revealed.

i do not know everything, but here's what i know so far. keep in mind i'm not organized or prepared or wise, i just read and pray for understanding. i'll start by saying, Paul recieved a new Gospel. don't freak out. it's only good news. God knew the Law could not be kept as told in Deuteronomy chapter 29. an early indication of mystery is Deut 29:29 KJV - The secret things belong to The Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this Law. this was for Israel. also, in Deut-31:14 KJV predicts rebellion. Leviticus chapter 26 speaks of reward and punishment for Israel. if you only look in you concordance for "mystery" you won't necessarily find the Mystery of Christ.

i might jump around alot, no chronological order. just facts of The Bible. 1 Corinthians 4:1,2 KJV - Let a man so account of us, as the MINISTERS of Christ, and stewards of the Mystery of God. 2 - Moreover, it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful. Jesus, in His earthly ministry, was preaching to Jews. here, in Matthew he speaks of the future, after being asked why He speaks in parables. parables aren't intended to be simple. - Matthew 13:11 KJV - He answered and said unto them, "Because it is given unto YOU to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to THEM it is not given." 13 = Therefore I speak in to them in parables, because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 - "And in THEM is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not percieve." Collosians 2:2 KJV - That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all RICHES of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the Mystery of God, and of The Father, and of Christ. ALL of the Old Testament prophets communed with God, dreams,visions, revelations, inspiration and instruction, but ALL was revealed through Paul.

see, but it's not just mid-acts. Romans 11:11 KJV - I say then, have THEY stumbled that THEY should fall,but rather, through their fall, Salvation IS COME unto the gentiles. 12 - Now if the fall of THEM is the riches of the world, and the diminishing of THEM the RICHES of the gentiles; how much MORE THEIR Fulness ? 13 - For I speak to you gentiles, inasmuch as I am the Apostle of the gentiles, I magnify mine office. ( the riches spoken of are the Riches of being In Christ, not material riches.) Romans 11:25 KJV - For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this Mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits; that BLINDNESS, in part, IS HAPPENED to Israel, UNTIL the Fulness of the gentiles BE COME IN. Revelation 10:7 KJV - But in the days of the voice of the seventh Angel, when he shall begin to sound, the Mystery of God shall be FINISHED, as He hath declared to His servants the prophets.

Jesus repeatedly told Israel He Is the Messiah, He will leave, He will Return. They wanted an instant result. Jesus said there will be a delay. Ministry -Galations 1:11-16 KJV - (not of any man or Paul, but Jesus Christ.)1 Corinthians 2:2 KJV - For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and Him Crucified. 1 Corinthians 2:7 KJV - But we speak the Wisdom of God in a Mystery, EVEN THE HIDDEN WISDOM, which God ordained BEFORE the world, unto our glory. 8 - Which none of the princes of this world knew: for if they had known it, THEY would not have crucified The Lord of Glory. now Ephesians. yummy. see, the Mystery is Jesus Christ, CONCERNING The Gospel. Paul asks only for Prayer - Ephesians 6:19 KJV - And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that i may open my mouth boldly, to make KNOWN the Mystery of The Gospel. Ephesians 1-11 explains alot. Ephesians 1:9 KJV - having made known unto US,the Mystery of His Will, according to His good pleasure which He hath purposed in Himself. - 10 - That in the DISPENSATION of the Fulness of times He might gather together In One all things In Christ, both which are in Heaven, and which are on earth, even in Him. 11 - In whom also WE have obtained an IHERITANCE, being pre-destinated according to the purpose of Him who worketh ALL things after the counsel His Own Will.

to me, that makes us heirs. we need to understand Paul's teaching. don't argue with me, argue with God and The Bible. The Mysteries ARE REVEALED, when we Rightly Divide. and make no mistake, Jesus Is God. there are many more scriptures proving that. i'm getting those together. Paul also WARNS us. Colossians 2:8 KVV - Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and NOT after Christ. - 9 - For In Him dwelleth the Fulness of The Godhead - BODILY. - 11 - IN WHOM ALSO ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ. ( and the rest of that chapter. everything. i can't type it all.) but, here's another gem Colossians 2:14 KJV - In whom we have redemption through His Blood, EVEN the forgiveness of sins. Colossians 1:15 KJV - Who Is the image of God, the firstborn of every creature. - 17 - And He Is Before All things, and by Him All things exist. ( Paul is talking about Jesus, btw ). Colossians 1:25 KJV - Whereof i am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given TO me FOR you, to Fulfil The Word of God. - 26 - EVEN the Mystery which hath BEEN HID from AGES and GENERATIONS, but NOW is made manifest to His saints: - 27 - To whom God would make KNOWN what is the RICHES of the Glory of this Mystery among the gentiles; which is Christ IN you, the Hope of Glory. - 28 - Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all Wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.

Paul WARNS: - Romans 16:17 KJV I beseech you brethren, mark them which CAUSE DIVISIONS and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned, and AVOID them. almost done, - 1 Corinthians 13:2 KJV - And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all Mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all Faith, so that I could remove mountains, and HAVE NOT CHARITY, I am NOTHING. 2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV - Therefore if ANY man Be In Christ, he is a NEW creature: Old things are passed away; behold all things are become NEW.

see, BEFORE Jesus came to Paul on the road to Damascus, until the Cross, we were under the law (circumcision). Why Paul ? besides the fact that God chose Paul, he was an expert in Jewish law and faith, a perfect example of God's Grace and The Gospel of Grace. Paul was faithful, prayed, very intelligent and a great writer. a Leader. ask God why Paul. basically, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were written under the OT law. they are the Gospel of Jesus' earthly ministry mostly. i stress mostly, not exclusively. i do not discount any part of The Bible.

there are roughly 5 or 6 main points to this thread (1) Christ Is not OF Israel. (2) The Mystery of Christ is REVEALED to Paul. (3) The Gospel of Christ Crucified and The Cross is NEW at that time. (4) One Body of Christ, neither Jew nor gentile, new Rulership. we will rule with Christ in Heavenly Places. (5) the RICHES of being IN CHRIST - only when we begin to understand Acts thru Revelation, especially Paul's Epistles and teachings, we KNOW WHO WE ARE IN CHRIST ! !

thanks for your time, sorry for any typos and spelling errors. sorry it all runs 2gether, i don't know how to start paragraphs on here and many other tricks yet. i hope this helps at least one person start to know what to look for. i know nothing really. i kid around alot here, but this is what i believe and study. not ONLY mid-acts, but ALL of The Bible. not only"Paul's Gospel", but God's, through Jesus Christ GIVEN TO PAUL. ANY perceived or imagined "contradictions" in The Bible can be solved or UN-contradicted IF we Rightly Divide. God Bless All ! ! ! - atrol:

There is no 'mystery', if you don't understand it, then you miss out on the whole heart of it.

Crowns&Laurels said:

There is no 'mystery', if you don't understand it, then you miss out on the whole heart of it.

Click to expand...

that's the point if you read it. ALL IS REVEALED. it's like a "need to know" basis. we have been told ALL we need to know so far. i'm just glad you already know. Praise God !

Thanks for your testimony, patrick jane!

You'll get the hang of the word processing tools. I might add that many Christians don't realize the origin of the Gentiles... certainly not Jesus' disciples who were not fluent in the Books of Moses early in their ministry (Acts 4:13, 20). Many folk assume Gentiles are simply non-Jews for the most part, respectfully. Paul (like Stephen) was quite fluent in the Books of Moses. I proffer Paul understood the Semites/Israelites were descendants of Sem/Shem, son of Noah. The Gentiles were the descendants of Japheth (Genesis 9:27, 10:2, 3, 4, Genesis 10:5 v. Genesis 10:5 KJV). The "isle of the Gentiles" is not a geographical indicator. Shem is in the lineage of Christ, not Japheth, directly. What I hear in Genesis 9:27 is that the descendants of Japheth ('father' of the Gentiles) were permitted to intermingle (procreate) with the descendants of Shem ('father' of the Semites). One might contrast this with Deuteronomy 7:1, 2, 3, Ezra 9:1, 2.

The descendants of Ham and Canaan (with slight exception for Canaan's descendants) were obviously not permitted to intermarry with the Shemites found in Deuteronomy 7:3 KJV, Ezra 9:1, 2. And, the descendants of Ham and Canaan (exception noted) who literally dogged out (pun not intended) the Gentiles (descendants of Japheth) as less than human not being in the direct lineage of Shem, progenitor of King David and Jesus. In other words... God had to choose between Shem and Japheth to be in the paternal lineage of Jesus... Japheth drew the short straw... and, the descendants of Ham and Canaan (exception noted) played the card that God didn't love the Gentiles.

That's the kind of knowledge I proffer Paul, fluent in the OT, understood to 'bring in' the Gentiles. The Gentiles were not sub-human as was taught by the synagogue of Satan, even today, who'd usurped authority to render OT.

Another point, but to differ... Jesus is not God to my rendering. Jesus Himself, illuminating his divinity in John 8 found in (John 8:12 KJV):

Jesus said He and His Father are TWO witnesses (John 8:17 KJV, John 8:18 KJV). Two witnesses testify two testimonies to the same event. Of the same 'substance', for the lack of a better word... but, two distinct entities, for the lack of a better word.

Jesus clearly indicated He was not his Father (John 8:19 KJV).

Jesus didn't send Himself (John 8:26 KJV).

Jesus didn't hear from Himself (John 8:26 KJV).

"They understood not that he spake to them of the Father" (John 8:27 KJV).

Jesus didn't teach Himself (John 8:28 KJV).

Jesus didn't please Himself (John 8:29 KJV).

Jesus didn't proceed and come forth from Himself (John 8:42 KJV).

Jesus didn't love Himself (John 10:17 KJV).

Jesus didn't receive a command from Himself to submit to crucifixion (John 10:17, 18).

It wasn't Jesus' will that He submit to crucifixion, it was His Father's will that His Son submit to crucifixion (Luke 22:42 KJV).

Two distinct entities, patrick jane. I'll leave the 'substance' of those 'entities' in the hands of those more abstract than I; but, two nonetheless. There's no mystery to the Twain, but the 'Substance' thereof is over my head.

Thanks again for your post, patrick jane

patrick jane said:

haven't . i know nothing really. i kid around alot here, but this is what i believe and study. not mid-acts, but ALL of The Bible. not "Paul's Gospel", but God's, through Jesus Christ. ANY percieved or imagined "contradictions" in The Bible can be solved or UN-contradicted IF we Rightly Divide. God Bless All ! ! ! - atrol:

Click to expand...

Hi and it began in Acts 9:6 !!

Rom 1:1 and 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 .

And Gal 1:15 !!

This is just the beginning or you will stay a BABE in Christ !!

We are always accused of just believing , ONLY what Paul reaches , as we believe 1 Cor 11:1 , for Paul is our apostle for the Gentiles !!

We believe all the bible as 2 Tim 3:16 says , and I really do not Kid around much !!

dan p

kayaker said:

Thanks for your testimony, patrick jane!

You'll get the hang of the word processing tools. I might add that many Christians don't realize the origin of the Gentiles... certainly not Jesus' disciples who were not fluent in the Books of Moses early in their ministry (Acts 4:13, 20). Many folk assume Gentiles are simply non-Jews for the most part, respectfully. Paul (like Stephen) was quite fluent in the Books of Moses. I proffer Paul understood the Semites/Israelites were descendants of Sem/Shem, son of Noah. The Gentiles were the descendants of Japheth (Genesis 9:27, 10:2, 3, 4, Genesis 10:5 v. Genesis 10:5 KJV). The "isle of the Gentiles" is not a geographical indicator. Shem is in the lineage of Christ, not Japheth, directly. What I hear in Genesis 9:27 is that the descendants of Japheth ('father' of the Gentiles) were permitted to intermingle (procreate) with the descendants of Shem ('father' of the Semites). One might contrast this with Deuteronomy 7:1, 2, 3, Ezra 9:1, 2.

The descendants of Ham and Canaan (with slight exception for Canaan's descendants) were obviously not permitted to intermarry with the Shemites found in Deuteronomy 7:3 KJV, Ezra 9:1, 2. And, the descendants of Ham and Canaan (exception noted) who literally dogged out (pun not intended) the Gentiles (descendants of Japheth) as less than human not being in the direct lineage of Shem, progenitor of King David and Jesus. In other words... God had to choose between Shem and Japheth to be in the paternal lineage of Jesus... Japheth drew the short straw... and, the descendants of Ham and Canaan (exception noted) played the card that God didn't love the Gentiles.

That's the kind of knowledge I proffer Paul, fluent in the OT, understood to 'bring in' the Gentiles. The Gentiles were not sub-human as was taught by the synagogue of Satan, even today, who'd usurped authority to render OT.

Another point, but to differ... Jesus is not God to my rendering. Jesus Himself, illuminating his divinity in John 8 found in (John 8:12 KJV):

Jesus said He and His Father are TWO witnesses (John 8:17 KJV, John 8:18 KJV). Two witnesses testify two testimonies to the same event. Of the same 'substance', for the lack of a better word... but, two distinct entities, for the lack of a better word.

Jesus clearly indicated He was not his Father (John 8:19 KJV).

Jesus didn't send Himself (John 8:26 KJV).

Jesus didn't hear from Himself (John 8:26 KJV).

"They understood not that he spake to them of the Father" (John 8:27 KJV).

Jesus didn't teach Himself (John 8:28 KJV).

Jesus didn't please Himself (John 8:29 KJV).

Jesus didn't proceed and come forth from Himself (John 8:42 KJV).

Jesus didn't love Himself (John 10:17 KJV).

Jesus didn't receive a command from Himself to submit to crucifixion (John 10:17, 18).

It wasn't Jesus' will that He submit to crucifixion, it was His Father's will that His Son submit to crucifixion (Luke 22:42 KJV).

Two distinct entities, patrick jane. I'll leave the 'substance' of those 'entities' in the hands of those more abstract than I; but, two nonetheless. There's no mystery to the Twain, but the 'Substance' thereof is over my head.

Thanks again for your post, patrick jane

Click to expand...

thank you Kayaker, i admit, i am not familiar enough with lineage and ancestry. i tend to fast forward to the NT, as probably alot people do. to be honest, i have studied and read the NT much more than OT. but i also read and study the OT. i'm going to compile scriptures that show God Is Jesus Incarnate. two entities yes. but ONE. here's one more i forgot in the OP - 1 Timothy 3:16 KJV - And without controversy GREAT IS THE MYSTERY of Godliness: God WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH, justified in The Spirit, seen of angels, preached UNTO the gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into Glory. along with John 1:1 KJV - In the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. - 2 - The same (Jesus) was in the Beginning with God. and John 8:56 KJV - your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day; and he saw it and was glad. - 57 - then said the Jews unto Him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast Thou seen Abraham ? - 58 - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. there are many more, but it is shown throughout The Bible. i know Jesus also says "if you have seen me you have seen The Father". - and also says " I am the image of the invisible God". i just think, if we try to separate God and Jesus as completely and totally separate, we diminish and LIMIT the Power and capabilities of God. we can't completely understand, but know that it's true. we have been told what we we need to know. ALL is Revealed in Revelation 10:7 KJV. but really, Justin Johnson of Grace Ambassadors explains this much better than me. thanks kayak for your response and kindness. see ya on the threads !

Forgive me... I'm putting in paragraphs and increasing the font size and bolded it (since it will be in the quote box) so that it will be easier (for me and maybe others) to read. No other changes were made. I hope that you find that this is acceptable.

patrick jane said:

haven't been here long, but i see much bickering. this thread will be some of the things we should discuss and spread. i type slow - this will take me all night. started @ 8:37 pm.

first, we MUST RIGHTLY DIVIDE. if you don't like that term, try - using reason, the brain God gave us, logic, thought and meditation. CONTENT and CONTEXT. common sense. rightly divide.

if you don't like the words mid-acts or dispensation, or Paul's Gospel, it is simply a revelation GIVEN TO Paul, from Jesus Christ AFTER the Crucifiction. there are MANY Mysteries in The Bible. all we need to know has been revealed. i do not know everything, but here's what i know so far. keep in mind i'm not organized or prepared or wise, i just read and pray for understanding. i'll start by saying, Paul recieved a new Gospel. don't freak out. it's only good news.

God knew the Law could not be kept as told in Deuteronomy chapter 29. an early indication of mystery is Deut 29:29 - The secret things belong to The Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this Law. this was for Israel. also, in Deut-31:14 predicts rebellion. Leviticus chapter 26 speaks of reward and punishment for Israel. if you only look in you concordance for "mystery" you won't necessarily find the Mystery of Christ.

i might jump around alot, no chronological order. just facts of The Bible. 1 Corinthians 4:1,2 - Let a man so account of us, as the MINISTERS of Christ, and stewards of the Mystery of God. 2 - Moreover, it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

Jesus, in His earthly ministry, was preaching to Jews. here, in Matthew he speaks of the future, after being asked why He speaks in parables. parables aren't intended to be simple. - Matthew 13:11 - He answered and said unto them, "Because it is given unto YOU to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to THEM it is not given." 13 = Therefore I speak in to them in parables, because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 - "And in THEM is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not percieve." Collosians 2:2 - That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all RICHES of the full assurance of understanding, to the aknowledgement of the Mystery of God, and of The Father, and of Christ.

ALL of the Old Testament prophets communed wih God, dreams,visions, revelaitions, inspiration and instruction, but ALL was revealed through Paul. see, but it's not just mid-acts. Romans 11:11 - I say then, have THEY stumbled that THEY should fall,bt rather, through their fall, Salvation IS COME unto the gentiles. 12 - Now if the fall of THEM is the riches of the world, and the diminishing of THEM the RICHES of the gentiles; how much MORE THEIR Fulness ? 13 - For I speak to you gentiles, inasmuch as I am the Apostle of the gentiles, I magnify mine office. ( the riches spoken of are the Riches of being In Christ, not material riches.) Romans 11:25 - For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this Mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits; that BLINDNESS, in part, IS HAPPENED to Israel, UNTIL the Fulness of the gentiles BE COME IN. Revelation 10:7 - But in the days of the voice of the seventh Angel, when he shall begin to sound, the Mystery of God shall be FINISHED, as He hath declared to His servants the prophets.

Jesus repeatedly told Israel He Is the Messiah, He will leave, He will Return. They wanted an instant result. Jesus said there will be a delay. Ministry -Galations 1:11-15 - (ot of any man or Paul, but Jesus Christ.)1 Corinthians 2:2 - For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and Him Crucified. 1 Corinthians 2:7 - But we speak the Wisdom of God in a Mystery, EVEN THE HIDDEN WISDOM, which God ordained BEFORE the world, unto our glory. 8 - Which none of the princes of this world knew: for if they had known it, THEY would not have crucified The Lord of Glory. now Ephesians. yummy. see, the Mystery is Jesus Christ, CONCERNING The Gospel. Paul asks only for Prayer - Ephesians 6:19 - And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that i may open my mouth boldly, to make KNOWN the Mystery of The Gospel. Ephesians 1-11 explains alot. Ephesians 1:9 - having made known unto US,the Mystery of His Will, according to His good pleasure which He hath purposed in Himself. - 10 - That in the DISPENSATION of the Fulness of times He might gather together In One all things In Christ, both which are in Heaven, and which are on earth, even in Him. 11 - In whom also WE have obtained an IHERITANCE, being pre-destinated according to the purpose of Him who worketh ALL things after the counsel His Own Will. to me, that makes us heirs. we need to understand Paul's teaching.

don't argue with me, argue with God and The Bible. The Mysteries ARE REVEALED, when we Rightly Divide. and make no mistake, Jesus Is God. there are many more scriptures proving that. i'm getting those together. Paul also WARNS us. Colossians 2:8 - Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and NOT after Christ. - 9 - For In Him dwelleth the Fulness of The Godhead - BODILY. - 11 - IN WHOM ALSO ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ. ( and the rest of that chapter. everything. i can't type it all.) but, here's another gem Colossians 2:14 - In whom we have redemption through His Blood, EVEN the forgiveness of sins. Colossians 1:15 - Who Is the image of God, the firstborn of every creature. - 17 - And He Is Before All things, and by Him All things exist. ( Paul is talking about Jesus, btw ). Colossians 1:25 - Whereof i am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given TO me FOR you, to Fulfil The Word of God. - 26 - EVEN the Mystery which hath BEEN HID from AGES and GENERATIONS, but NOW is made manifest to His saints: - 27 - To whom God would make KNOWN what is the RICHES of the Glory of this Mystery among the gentiles; which is Christ IN you, the Hope of Glory. - 28 - Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all Wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.

Paul WARNS: - Romans 16:17 I beseech you brethren, mark them which CAUSE DIVISIONS and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned, and AVOID them. almost done, - 1Corinthians 13:2 - And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all Mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all Faith, so that I could remove mountains, and HAVE NOT CHARITY, I am NOTHING. 2 Corinthians 5:17 - Therefore if ANY man Be In Christ, he is a NEW creature: Old things are passed away; behold all things are become NEW.

see, BEFORE Jesus came to Paul on the road to Damascus, we were under the law (circumcision). Why Paul ? besides the fct that God chose Paul, he was an expert in Jewish law and faith, a perfect example of God's Grace and The Gospel of Grace. Paul was faithful, prayed, very intelligent and a great writer. a Leader. ask God why Paul. basically, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were written under the OT law. they are the Gospel of Jesus' earthly ministry mostly. i stress mostly, not exclusively. i do not discount any part of The Bible. there are roughly 5 or 6 main points to this thread (1) Christ Is not OF Israel. (2) The Mystery of Christ is REVEALED to Paul. (3) The Gospel of Christ Crucified and The Cross is NEW at that time. (4) One Body of Christ, neither Jew nor gentile, new Rulership. we will rule with Christ in Heavenly Places. (5) the RICHES of being IN CHRIST - when we begin to understand Acts thru Revelation, especially Paul's Epistles and teachings, we KNOW WHO WE ARE IN CHRIST ! !

thanks for your time, sorry for any typos and spelling errors. sorry it all runs 2gether, i don't know how to start pragraphs on here and many other tricks yet. i hope this helps at least one person start to know what to look for. i know nothing really. i kid around alot here, but this is what i believe and study. not mid-acts, but ALL of The Bible. not "Paul's Gospel", but God's, through Jesus Christ. ANY percieved or imagined "contradictions" in The Bible can be solved or UN-contradicted IF we Rightly Divide.

God Bless All ! ! ! - atrol:

Click to expand...

And God Bless you, Patrick Jane.

Excellent post. Though, I was almost concerned there for a bit thinking that you might be a MADist.

About making paragraphs, just hit the enter key (twice I think) and it creates paragraphs.

Yes, twice.

patrick jane said:

In the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Click to expand...

The word wasn't Jesus, he had not been born yet.

The word was made flesh in 5 BCE, not in the beginning.

Levolor said:

And God Bless you, Patrick Jane.

Excellent post. Though, I was almost concerned there for a bit thinking that you might be a MADist.

About making paragraphs, just hit the enter key (twice I think) and it creates paragraphs.

Yes, twice.

Click to expand...

thank you, i love it. thanks for the tips. i will play with it, i always plan to bu put it off. i'll just start a mock post and play with the tools without posting it. no, i don't see the HUGE emphasis on mid-acts alone. i do believe in rightly dividing and the dispensation. Paul's writings are special and he was chosen by God. very much is revealed through Paul, but i can't put him on a pedestal. Paul himself did not want that. i notice alot of spelling errors, but i couldn't seem to fix them on the OP. when i tried, it got worse, so i had to leave the errors. even within a couple scriptures, i mis-typed and couldn't go back to fix it. i could go to the mistake but when i tried to backspace, or spacebar, add the right letters, it would do the wrong thing. anyway i'll get better. thanks again, God Bless us all - atrol:

patrick jane said:

thank you, i love it. thanks for the tips. i will play with it, i always plan to bu put it off. i'll just start a mock post and play with the tools without posting it. no, i don't see the HUGE emphasis on mid-acts alone. i do believe in rightly dividing and the dispensation. Paul's writings are special and he was chosen by God. very much is revealed through Paul, but i can't put him on a pedestal. Paul himself did not want that. i notice alot of spelling errors, but i couldn't seem to fix them on the OP. when i tried, it got worse, so i had to leave the errors. even within a couple scriptures, i mis-typed and couldn't go back to fix it. i could go to the mistake but when i tried to backspace, or spacebar, add the right letters, it would do the wrong thing. anyway i'll get better. thanks again, God Bless us all - atrol:

Click to expand...

You're welcome. And yes, God Bless us all.

Yes, you will get better at all the functions.

patrick jane said:

...make no mistake, Jesus Is God.


there are many more scriptures proving that.

Click to expand...

One wonders where it is written because there are hundreds of fool-proof texts like Jn 17:3 or Jn 20:17 stating clearly that the Father is the only true/one/our God.

Aren’t you telling lies instead of quoting texts stating that Jesus is God? Isn’t because such texts would contradict those fool-proof texts?

delete

patrick jane said:

thank you Kayaker, i admit, i am not familiar enough with lineage and ancestry. i tend to fast forward to the NT, as probably alot people do. to be honest, i have studied and read the NT much more than OT. but i also read and study the OT. i'm going to compile scriptures that show God Is Jesus Incarnate. two entities yes. but ONE. here's one more i forgot in the OP - Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy GREAT IS THE MYSTERY of Godliness: God WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH, justified in The Spirit, seen of angels, preached UNTO the gentiles, believed on in the world, recieved up into Glory. along with John 1:1 - In the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. - 2 - The same (Jesus) was in the Beginning with God. and John 8:56 - your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day; and he saw it and was glad. - 57 - then said the Jews unto Him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast Thou seen Abraham ? - 58 - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. thereare many more, but it is shown throughout The Bible. i know Jesus also says "if you have seen me you have seen The Father". - and also says " I am the image of the invisible God". i just think, if we try to seperate God and Jesus as completely and totally seperate, we diminish and LIMIT the Power and capabilities of God. we can't completely understand, but know that it's true. we have been told what we we need to know. ALL is Revealed in Revelation 10:7. but really, Justin Johnson of Grace Ambassadors explains this much better. thanks kayak for your response and kindness. see ya on the threads !

Click to expand...

Glad you're back, patrick jane!

Understanding Genesis is significant to understanding the NT. Few study the ancestries... booooring. But, quite fascinating. Here's one aspect of 'One' that likely escapes the masses: Jesus' arrival generation was prophesied in Genesis 4:24 KJV by the executioner of Cain (Genesis 4:23 KJV). "Seventy and sevenfold" (77) generations is unveiled beginning in Luke 3:38 KJV counting with God is generation #1, Adam generation #2, Seth #3..., and so forth. Jesus is the 77th 'fold' from God. God in the beginning, Jesus in the end, 77 generations inclusively, and there's your 'One'. Jesus wasn't prophesied as the 76th from Adam, yet He was the second Adam.

Those who didn't understand Jesus was referring to His Father (a distinctly different 'entity') were those who instigated the crucifixion. They were the Shelanite descendants of Judah (prophesied progenitor of Messiah) and his Canaanite wife. Jesus was the descendant of Judah and his daughter-in-law, Tamar via their eldest twin son, Pharez. Pharez is found in the lineage of King David and Jesus.

All that being said, patrick jane... those who instituted the crucifixion didn't see the distinction (John 8:27 KJV). I do not perceive the distinction as diminishing power... I see it more as synergism! And, TWO witnesses are pretty powerful testifying to the truth of Jesus' divinity. There's nothing sophisticated about my prior post, friend. I suspect those who subscribe to the notion Jesus and God are the same 'entity' get caught up in some kind of Scriptural abyss, with all due respect.

On the flip side of that coin... it is highly unlikely you will run into anyone who can unveil those two divine testimonies of those two witnesses Jesus spoke of in John 8. That's a mystery I suppose. I suggest giving more focus on those two 'mysterious' testimonies alluding to the two 'entities'... When one can do this... I'll be glad to have further conversation on the subject. When one cannot discern the two testimonies... it's like playing a battle of "truth" with a one-armed opponent (John 8:32 KJV), respectfully.

I bid you peace, friend...

kayaker

patrick jane said:

...i'm going to compile scriptures that show God Is Jesus Incarnate.

Click to expand...

You better study the OT prophecy like 2Sam 7:12 declared fulfilled by Peter in Ac 2:30 and Paul in Ac 13:23 instead of "compiling scriptures" seemingly supporting your theology.

kayaker said:

Glad you're back, patrick jane!

Understanding Genesis is significant to understanding the NT. Few study the ancestries... booooring. But, quite fascinating. Here's one aspect of 'One' that likely escapes the masses: Jesus' arrival generation was prophesied in Genesis 4:24 KJV by the executioner of Cain (Genesis 4:23 KJV). "Seventy and sevenfold" (77) generations is unveiled beginning in Luke 3:38 KJV counting with God is generation #1, Adam generation #2, Seth #3..., and so forth. Jesus is the 77th 'fold' from God. God in the beginning, Jesus in the end, 77 generations inclusively, and there's your 'One'. Jesus wasn't prophesied as the 76th from Adam, yet He was the second Adam.

Those who didn't understand Jesus was referring to His Father (a distinctly different 'entity') were those who instigated the crucifixion. They were the Shelanite descendants of Judah (prophesied progenitor of Messiah) and his Canaanite wife. Jesus was the descendant of Judah and his daughter-in-law, Tamar via their eldest twin son, Pharez. Pharez is found in the lineage of King David and Jesus.

All that being said, patrick jane... those who instituted the crucifixion didn't see the distinction (John 8:27 KJV). I do not perceive the distinction as diminishing power... I see it more as synergism! And, TWO witnesses are pretty powerful testifying to the truth of Jesus' divinity. There's nothing sophisticated about my prior post, friend. I suspect those who subscribe to the notion Jesus and God are the same 'entity' get caught up in some kind of Scriptural abyss, with all due respect.

On the flip side of that coin... it is highly unlikely you will run into anyone who can unveil those two divine testimonies of those two witnesses Jesus spoke of in John 8. That's a mystery I suppose. I suggest giving more focus on those two 'mysterious' testimonies alluding to the two 'entities'... When one can do this... I'll be glad to have further conversation on the subject. When one cannot discern the two testimonies... it's like playing a battle of "truth" with a one-armed opponent (John 8:32 KJV), respectfully.

I bid you peace, friend...

kayaker

Click to expand...

I agree with both groups. They who say Jesus is God and those who say Jesus is not God. It's why you won't find me in the debates on whether He is or not. How can I see them both ways you ask, perhaps? Well... Jesus is not God because He didn't pray to Himself, yet Jesus is God because He got so much of Himself out of the way that all that was left of Him was God.

Levolor said:

I agree with both groups. They who say Jesus is God and those who say Jesus is not God. It's why you won't find me in the debates on whether He is or not. How can I see them both ways you ask, perhaps? Well... Jesus is not God because He didn't pray to Himself, yet Jesus is God because He got so much of Himself out of the way that all that was left of Him was God.

Click to expand...

Jesus is not God to my rendering... I've stated my case. There are too many unveiled truths in our Bible to exhaust my time with such. The endless argument is substantially a diversion to notions yet discovered... Seldom do those debates result in anyone's 'conversion'... shaking off a misconception, and replacing it with deeper truth and meaning.

As we totally agree... Jesus was not from this world, and He was severely misunderstood. By analogy... Jesus would be like an alien from another world who could speak our language... and, we think we fully grasp the depth of His knowledge? Like a snapshot of a wedding ceremony... just a glimpse... a Blessed glimpse, indeed!

kayaker

patrick jane said:

2 - The same (Jesus) was in the Beginning with God.

Click to expand...

Who authorised you to add this word (Jesus) to God's word?

Where you got it from that the word "logos" equates Jesus despite texts like Ac 10:36 or Re 20:4?

Are you aware that Jesus and the NT writers almost always quoted prophets?

Do you know which "word" John referred to?

Try Isa 55:11, Ac 33:6 + 9 (confirmed in Heb 11:3 where the word rhema means utterance; never Jesus) then 2Sam 7:12.

Levolor said:

I agree with both groups. They who say Jesus is God and those who say Jesus is not God. It's why you won't find me in the debates on whether He is or not. How can I see them both ways you ask, perhaps? Well... Jesus is not God because He didn't pray to Himself, yet Jesus is God because He got so much of Himself out of the way that all that was left of Him was God.

Click to expand...

Let's see what God says about this:

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
Isa 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


So what makes you tell your story?

kayaker said:

Jesus is not God to my rendering...

Click to expand...

I was steadfast with this for some time. Push come to shove this too would be my bottom line, but it has become difficult for me to say what is not God: Jeremiah 23:24 and Acts 17:28.

But then comes the problem of reconciling 1 John 1:5 about there being no darkness in God and looking around at this world. Not a problem for me any longer, but would be to those who haven't a reason.

I've stated my case.

Click to expand...

And I still love you.

There are too many unveiled truths in our Bible to exhaust my time with such. The endless argument is substantially a diversion to notions yet discovered... Seldom do those debates result in anyone's 'conversion'... shaking off a misconception, and replacing it with deeper truth and meaning.

Click to expand...

Indeed.

Though, what might be interesting to discuss is the difference between being in Christ and that of Christ being in you. Romans 8:10-17

As we totally agree... Jesus was not from this world, and He was severely misunderstood. By analogy... Jesus would be like an alien from another world who could speak our language... and, we think we fully grasp the depth of His knowledge? Like a snapshot of a wedding ceremony... just a glimpse... a Blessed glimpse, indeed!

kayaker

Click to expand...

Amen.

It's interesting, at least to me, that we humans and our discoveries generally concern that which is small and smaller in size... as seen and discovered by microscopes and telescopes, but when the spiritual man receives revelation that which is seen and discovered becomes larger and larger.

And so the unveiling is... a larger and larger view comes.