PDA

View Full Version : Are the Demons Saved?



bob b
February 22nd, 2006, 11:32 AM
I have often heard it said that all one has to do to be saved is believe in Jesus Christ. There are even passages in scripture which seem to teach this

But there is also scripture which indicates that the Demons in Hell believe in Jesus Christ and yet seem to be condemned to be thrown into the lake of Fire.

What is going on here?

Could this be a misunderstanding that arose when translating the Greek into English?

:think:

SUTG
February 22nd, 2006, 11:40 AM
I have often heard it said that all one has to do to be saved is believe in Jesus Christ. There are even passages in scripture which seem to teach this

But there is also scripture which indicates that the Demons in Hell believe in Jesus Christ and yet seem to be condemned to be thrown into the lake of Fire.

What is going on here?

Maybe the demons were cast into hell for not believeing, and that caused them to believe - but it was too late. Sorta like everyone keeps saying is going to happen to us atheists on this board.

Lynn73
February 22nd, 2006, 11:54 AM
No the demons aren't saved. They may believe in the existence of God and Christ since they have firsthand knowledge that they do exist. But that's not the same as putting trust in Christ for salvation. They have a mental assent type of belief but not a heart and true trust belief.

2ephesians8
February 22nd, 2006, 12:06 PM
Yes, Bob b, I think there may be an issue with the word 'believe' . As Lynn73 was saying, mental assent and trust are different. Maybe it would have been better to say the demons 'know' and those who are saved 'trust'. Demons know Jesus Christ exists and is the way for men to be saved. They, however, are still in rebellion against God. As I understand it, there is no repentance available for these unclean, lawless, workers of inequity. Only men, created in the image of God, are offered the way of salvation.




Have you ever seen, heard or smelled a demon?

Wamba
February 22nd, 2006, 12:21 PM
It says in James
You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

There's a diffence between believing and being saved. So, of course they believe in God, but they rebelled against Him and wanted power for themselves. That's why they got kicked out of Heaven in the first place.

bob b
February 22nd, 2006, 01:31 PM
Yes, Bob b, I think there may be an issue with the word 'believe' . As Lynn73 was saying, mental assent and trust are different. Maybe it would have been better to say the demons 'know' and those who are saved 'trust'. Demons know Jesus Christ exists and is the way for men to be saved. They, however, are still in rebellion against God. As I understand it, there is no repentance available for these unclean, lawless, workers of inequity. Only men, created in the image of God, are offered the way of salvation.

I believe you have the answer (as does Wamba). Going through my concordance search on "believe" the word "entrust" is an alternate.


Have you ever seen, heard or smelled a demon?

I don't think so, but then again there was this one instance ... :think:

logos_x
February 22nd, 2006, 02:19 PM
I always took that verse to mean that demons tremble because of Christian authority over them. :think:

Shalom
February 22nd, 2006, 03:06 PM
Also...just because you believe in God that doesnt mean you will like Him.

Many beleive in God but they reject His ways therefore rejecting Him and their salvation.

Of course from my perspective as a God loving Christian I believe that if they really chose to know Him they wouldnt reject Him or His ways.

thelaqachisnext
February 22nd, 2006, 03:18 PM
It says in James

There's a diffence between believing and being saved. So, of course they believe in God, but they rebelled against Him and wanted power for themselves. That's why they got kicked out of Heaven in the first place.
The demons, which are those 'unclean, foul, spirits', were never in heaven in the first place.
Their father's were, according to Scripture; but they are born of the rebel angels of daughters of Adam and are condemned from the conception of them as unclean spirits. When they are disembodied by the death of their unclean flesh, they roam the earth, seeking to inhabit a body, doing evil, unless they are sent to the pit before their appointed time for worse deeds than just 'unlawfully' existing.

The Scriptures that we have provide abundant proof that, on this matter, that the book of Enoch is correct and rightly quoted in Scripture.
So, no; the demons believe that Jesus Christ is the Holy One (as they confess in the Word) who was to come, and are never saved, as the angels who fell believe -even Satan- and are never saved.
Believe with the heart and confess with the mouth that you trust Him to be and do what He promised and you will be saved, because with that confession comes the humbling of yourself to His Word and agreement with Him of your need.

The fallen angels and the nephillim born of them never had a promise to be saved by the blood of sprinkling, which is only for the 'Adam- kind' -'from the foundation of the world'.

It is not to angels that He gave aid, when He took upon Himself the garments of vengence (the human nature), by clothing Himself with the body prepared in the Womb of the virgin, in which body He is the Kinsman-Redeemer/Avenger of all in Adam (whosoever will).

2ephesians8
February 22nd, 2006, 06:06 PM
Fields of the Nephillim?

:shocked:

logos_x
February 22nd, 2006, 06:10 PM
Genesis 6

OlDove
February 22nd, 2006, 06:22 PM
The idea that we are fallen and need to pay for a sin, do children have that naturally in them? Or is that something we teach them and then they believe? It's always confused me because people who never knew they needed to be saved are saved according to most Christians, in that second chance deal after they're dead. If we are the fallen angels, maybe it's because of the rebellion within us. Isn't within us where the Kingdom of God is supposed to be. Could it be more a teaching that we need to suffer before we can understand?

2ephesians8
February 22nd, 2006, 06:53 PM
The idea that we are fallen and need to pay for a sin, do children have that naturally in them? Or is that something we teach them and then they believe?


1John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Do you think guilt, sorrow, saddness, pain etc. is taught?



[QOUTE=OlDove/] It's always confused me because people who never knew they needed to be saved are saved according to most Christians, in that second chance deal after they're dead. If we are the fallen angels, maybe it's because of the rebellion within us. Isn't within us where the Kingdom of God is supposed to be. Could it be more a teaching that we need to suffer before we can understand?[/QUOTE]
:confused:

kmoney
February 22nd, 2006, 06:59 PM
No the demons aren't saved. They may believe in the existence of God and Christ since they have firsthand knowledge that they do exist. But that's not the same as putting trust in Christ for salvation. They have a mental assent type of belief but not a heart and true trust belief.
I agree with this. :up:

OlDove
February 22nd, 2006, 07:07 PM
1John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Do you think guilt, sorrow, saddness, pain etc. is taught?
I think emotions are like instinct. We are born with all of them. It is what we grow in our garden. If we see thorns. They are thorns. "guilt, sorrow, saddness, pain" they are needed to learn what life is. Embrace these emotions. They help us learn why we do things. They are not like our EGO. Our ego stops our growth.

Apologist
February 22nd, 2006, 07:09 PM
The exact verse, i believe is: "You believe? Good. Even the demons hear the name of Jesus Christ and tremble."

Ie, merely believing is not enough. You must have faith and do good works.

Daniel50
February 22nd, 2006, 07:15 PM
If you understand the following verse
I Peter 4;18 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?


Where is the question of Demons are saved?

OlDove
February 22nd, 2006, 07:21 PM
If you understand the following verse
I Peter 4;18 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?


Where is the question of Demons are saved?
If we are demons. Is this hell? Did Hitler come back and get raped by Stalin as a young child? Then Stalin put to death in jail by someone? Did Hitler and Stalin come back as women in the Taliban?

OlDove
February 22nd, 2006, 07:23 PM
If you understand the following verse
I Peter 4;18 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?


Where is the question of Demons are saved?
righteous scarcely be saved

Dont be righteous?

kmoney
February 22nd, 2006, 07:25 PM
If we are demons. Is this hell? Did Hitler come back and get raped by Stalin as a young child? Then Stalin put to death in jail by someone? Did Hitler and Stalin come back as women in the Taliban?
We're demons?? :dizzy:

OlDove
February 22nd, 2006, 07:34 PM
We're demons?? :dizzy:
If we are not, are we saved?

kmoney
February 22nd, 2006, 07:37 PM
If we are not, are we saved?
We aren't demons.

OlDove
February 22nd, 2006, 07:42 PM
We aren't demons.
Then we are saved from not living in guilt by learning to forgive ourself from what we have not known was wrong?

kmoney
February 22nd, 2006, 07:46 PM
Then we are saved from not living in guilt by learning to forgive ourself from what we have not known was wrong?
:help:

OlDove
February 22nd, 2006, 07:50 PM
:help:
What are we saved from when we are saved?

kmoney
February 22nd, 2006, 07:52 PM
What are we saved from when we are saved?
Ourselves.

OlDove
February 22nd, 2006, 08:07 PM
Ourselves.
I agree with that. What is it in us that needs saving. Is it our illusion of dualism?

Light good, so shadow must be bad?

kmoney
February 22nd, 2006, 08:09 PM
I agree with that. What is it in us that needs saving. Is it our illusion of dualism?

Light good, so shadow must be bad?
Our sin.

OlDove
February 22nd, 2006, 08:15 PM
Our sin.
What sin has a child committed?

kmoney
February 22nd, 2006, 08:20 PM
What sin has a child committed?
Do you believe children go to hell if they die?

OlDove
February 22nd, 2006, 08:28 PM
Do you believe children go to hell if they die?
NO.

They are saved because mankind has not confused them.

Saved from what within ourself?

kmoney
February 22nd, 2006, 08:29 PM
NO.

They are saved because mankind has not confused them.

Saved from what within ourself?
So children save themselves?

OlDove
February 22nd, 2006, 08:30 PM
So children save themselves?
Does Jesus teach us to be as a child? Why?

kmoney
February 22nd, 2006, 08:31 PM
Does Jesus teach us to be as a child? Why?
Because they can save themselves?

:help:

OlDove
February 22nd, 2006, 08:37 PM
Because they can save themselves?

:help:
IMHO It is because God is more clear to them. They have not been told to be "THIS" or you are not saved. just like "you are not saved without the laws of the Rabbi's."

Is a clean glass of water dirty?

kmoney
February 22nd, 2006, 08:41 PM
IMHO It is because God is more clear to them. They have not been told to be "THIS" or you are not saved. just like "you are not saved without the laws of the Rabbi's."

Is a clean glass of water dirty?
Is the water dirty?

OlDove
February 22nd, 2006, 08:45 PM
Is the water dirty?
If it thinks it is. Is it dirty? or does it need to be saved from thinking its dirty?

kmoney
February 22nd, 2006, 08:46 PM
If it thinks it is. Is it dirty? or does it need to be saved from thinking its dirty?
Water can't think.

:help:

OlDove
February 22nd, 2006, 08:47 PM
Take a nice clean baby.
If it thinks it is. Is it dirty? or does it need to be saved from thinking its dirty?

kmoney
February 22nd, 2006, 08:48 PM
Take a nice clean baby.
If it thinks it is. Is it dirty? or does it need to be saved from thinking its dirty?
A doesn't have that kind of comprehension.

OlDove
February 22nd, 2006, 08:56 PM
A doesn't have that kind of comprehension.
Then is a child saved because of that? Why does Jesus say be as a child?

OlDove
February 22nd, 2006, 09:02 PM
Are demons what we create by our own teachings, or Gods teaching?

Show me a demon.

OlDove
February 22nd, 2006, 09:06 PM
Are we saved from captivity by captivity? Be a Christian or you are not saved, is that a trap?

OlDove
February 22nd, 2006, 09:08 PM
Please think of these questions. If I am not saved, I want to know why.

Tomorrow. Thank you for talking.

kmoney
February 22nd, 2006, 09:18 PM
Then is a child saved because of that? Why does Jesus say be as a child?
He doesn't say to be like children so we can't comprehend anything.

kmoney
February 22nd, 2006, 09:18 PM
Are we saved from captivity by captivity? Be a Christian or you are not saved, is that a trap?
I think you're laying a trap by saying that people from all religions are saved.

kmoney
February 22nd, 2006, 09:20 PM
Are demons what we create by our own teachings, or Gods teaching?

Show me a demon.
:devil:

Daniel50
February 22nd, 2006, 10:08 PM
:devil:

Who says this?

Satan or Demon is the Adversary of God's people?
The power of Demons over by the human body.
1.Dumbness.
2.Blindness.
3.Insanity.
4.Suicidal mania.
5.Physical deformities. etc.........

kmoney
February 22nd, 2006, 10:11 PM
Who says this?

Satan or Demon is the Adversary of God's people?
The power of Demons over by the human body.
1.Dumbness.
2.Blindness.
3.Insanity.
4.Suicidal mania.
5.Physical deformities. etc.........
Do you?

Daniel50
February 22nd, 2006, 10:17 PM
Do you?
What you mean? I didn't catch your point.......

kmoney
February 22nd, 2006, 10:18 PM
What you mean? I didn't catch your point.......
Do you think the things you listed are caused by demons?

Daniel50
February 22nd, 2006, 10:24 PM
[QUOTE]Do you think the things you listed are caused by demons?
Yes very much..............do you want scripture portions for that?

OlDove
February 22nd, 2006, 10:25 PM
He doesn't say to be like children so we can't comprehend anything.
There are many things children have that many adults do not. One is an imagination that is not bound by what people say cannot be. I think that is a most wonderful gift God gave all of us. To think with no dogmas. To have no idols of any kind. To not judge because of skin color or belief. To see friends until friends show how mean they can be, and that can make us mean. Then we forget how to forgive. Then we need to be saved.

But I'm guessing you're going to tell me I'm wrong. So please tell me, if you have said something on the next page already, I'm sorry I'm asking. If not, what does a child have? Why does Jesus say to be like a child?

immivik
February 22nd, 2006, 10:28 PM
Angels have had opportunity to know God in a unique way.
they are even further without excuse than we are. also being without a sin nature they
have added fault for rejecting God as thier authority. They knew Him personally from thier very beginning and yet one of them decided he wanted his friends to follow him and a slew of them did.

Only Adam and Eve were made with no sin nature, and in them the entire human race fell because they chose to go thier own way. We being born with a sin nature have no excuse for our sin yet in a way have lees control over the fact we are fallen since we are born in sin.

The angels were created with no sin, all of them. no sin nature. I beleive they had thier opportunity to chose whom they would follow. now thier choice cannot be retracted.

kmoney
February 22nd, 2006, 10:29 PM
[QUOTE]Do you think the things you listed are caused by demons?
Yes very much..............do you want scripture portions for that?
Certainly, if you have scriptures please post them. :up:

OlDove
February 22nd, 2006, 10:30 PM
:devil:
No my friend. That is a dancing banana, in a Satan costume. It is easier to see like this. Sync?
:drum:
***music playes*** bananas on stage***

:devil: :banana: :devil: :banana: :devil: :banana:


:devil: :banana: :devil: :banana: :devil: :banana:


:devil: :banana: :devil: :banana: :devil: :banana:

kmoney
February 22nd, 2006, 10:31 PM
There are many things children have that many adults do not. One is an imagination that is not bound by what people say cannot be. I think that is a most wonderful gift God gave all of us. To think with no dogmas. To have no idols of any kind. To not judge because of skin color or belief. To see friends until friends show how mean they can be, and that can make us mean. Then we forget how to forgive. Then we need to be saved.

But I'm guessing you're going to tell me I'm wrong. So please tell me, if you have said something on the next page already, I'm sorry I'm asking. If not, what does a child have? Why does Jesus say to be like a child?
A child has innocence that adults, or people of accountability, don't have.

We don't need to be saved because we forget how to forgive.
Being like a child can mean many things, I don't necessarily disagree with what you said being a child means. But I think you think that being "like a child" is what saves us. That I do disagree with.

OlDove
February 22nd, 2006, 10:35 PM
Who says this?

Satan or Demon is the Adversary of God's people?
The power of Demons over by the human body.
1.Dumbness.
2.Blindness.
3.Insanity.
4.Suicidal mania.
5.Physical deformities. etc.........


God can make you or let you bee any of these. Every day the sun rises.

Peace folks.

OlDove
February 22nd, 2006, 10:43 PM
A child has innocence that adults, or people of accountability, don't have.
Should an adults accountability destroy our innocence?


We don't need to be saved because we forget how to forgive.
Grace right? But untill I learn Grace, I dont get it. But I do?


Being like a child can mean many things, I don't necessarily disagree with what you said being a child means. But I think you think that being "like a child" is what saves us. That I do disagree with.


Is it NOT the start?

Why does Jesus say be as a child?

immivik
February 22nd, 2006, 10:51 PM
as a child meaning, teachable, easily led by Him and trusting of Him, also; able to grow and
vulnerable to Him. All the charachteristics of a very small child who still needs to be cared for by an adult. we need to behave that way toward the Father . and the words Abba Father come to mind in that when a child calls out to thier daddy they call him by a sweet name for they trust thier father and are sure he will not snub them.

kmoney
February 22nd, 2006, 10:55 PM
Should an adults accountability destroy our innocence?
As soon as you sin you aren't innocent.


Grace right? But untill I learn Grace, I dont get it. But I do?
No.


Is it NOT the start?

Why does Jesus say be as a child?
How a child is to their parents.

2ephesians8
February 22nd, 2006, 11:02 PM
Angels have had opportunity to know God in a unique way.
They are even further without excuse than we are. Also being without a sin nature they
have added fault for rejecting God as thier authority. They knew Him personally from thier very beginning and yet one of them decided he wanted his friends to follow him and a slew of them did.

Only Adam and Eve were made with no sin nature, and in them the entire human race fell because they chose to go their own way. We, being born with a sin nature, have no excuse for our sin yet in a way have less control over the fact we are fallen since we are born in sin.

The angels were created with no sin, all of them. No sin nature. I beleive they had thier opportunity to chose whom they would follow. Now thier choice cannot be retracted.

:thumb:

This is right on. All people born of the race of Adam which would be.....ALL people, are born in sin therefore all die. I think it is sentimental and unscrpitural to think that children are not going to be judged. This is one of the many reasons abortion is so hanious.

Sometimes the truth hurts. It is my hope that children, the unborn and those who never heard would be given a opprotunity to chose at some point, but it is only a hope. All I know is that God's ways are not our ways, His thoughts are higher than my thoughts and His ways are higher than my ways. If my intellect could comprehend Him, I probably wouldn't need Him.

2ephesians8
February 22nd, 2006, 11:08 PM
What are we saved from when we are saved?


You, for starters.... :chuckle:


No, really, ETERNAL DEATH, also known as, SEPARATION FROM GOD FOR ALL ETERNITY.

Are you really asking this question in sincerity? Because if you don't know what it means to be saved, there is no way you can realistically claim to be a Christian.

OlDove
February 23rd, 2006, 04:06 PM
as a child meaning, teachable, easily led by Him and trusting of Him, also; able to grow and
vulnerable to Him. All the charachteristics of a very small child who still needs to be cared for by an adult. we need to behave that way toward the Father . and the words Abba Father come to mind in that when a child calls out to thier daddy they call him by a sweet name for they trust thier father and are sure he will not snub them.
I agree. trust in God is true faith. Inoccence that condemns nothing because it is only aware. It has not been told how limited it is.

OlDove
February 23rd, 2006, 04:10 PM
As soon as you sin you aren't innocent.


.
Children have soft skin. Just as a new wineskin?

Not made rigid damning people?

OlDove
February 23rd, 2006, 04:16 PM
You, for starters.... :chuckle:


No, really, ETERNAL DEATH, also known as, SEPARATION FROM GOD FOR ALL ETERNITY.

Are you really asking this question in sincerity? Because if you don't know what it means to be saved, there is no way you can realistically claim to be a Christian.
Then we are the demons?

Why are we seperated? What seperates us?

Yes thes are true questions.

OlDove
February 23rd, 2006, 05:25 PM
tyrciyht

OlDove
February 23rd, 2006, 07:08 PM
Ok I admit it. That was just to bump the thread and I didn't have time to think of a word. I don't have time to hang around tonight so G-nite ToL. After I bump this thread one more time.

God, or if I may use the term 'more', or even higher power, a child is born with a tremendous imagination of what it can be. The only way it learns if something is hot is by touching it. So yes in the physical world, there are hot things. Just like there are hard things and soft things. Just like there is the ability to imagine more than the average Jewish person was being told about by their high priests. Ever watch the SpongeBob episode where Patrick and SpongeBob are sitting in a box? Using their imagination, they are having the time of their life. They are expressing grace and the joy of life. That is why when Sqiudward gets in the box, it does not work for him. I see many good intelligent people here who know this. And I know if asked, each would say they got there in a A Way, that is a way. And there is in your imagination in your dreams. In the very land adults are told does not exist. Go into that land in total surrender. Just as a young child is at total surrender. You can fight all the demons you want in this land. If you lose, you don't die, you just wake up. Trust me I have woken up many nights out of dreams, dead tired from the battles within. It became a spiritual warfare to protect the name Jesus. No Wiccan spirit, Native American spirit, no Hindu, Muslim, etc spirit ever had a chance against me. I was lightening fast and could block anything. The second I went to strike, my arms turned to stiff rubber that would barely move. When I surrendered to the spirits I met, and understood they were friends trying to help, that's when I found satan is only a banana in a costume. Go with no fear into your imagination and you will learn wonders. Be a child. Blessings to all and to all a G-nite.

2ephesians8
February 23rd, 2006, 07:44 PM
Ok I admit it. That was just to bump the thread and I didn't have time to think of a word. I don't have time to hang around tonight so G-nite ToL. After I bump this thread one more time.

God, or if I may use the term 'more', or even higher power, a child is born with a tremendous imagination of what it can be. The only way it learns if something is hot is by touching it. So yes in the physical world, there are hot things. Just like there are hard things and soft things. Just like there is the ability to imagine more than the average Jewish person was being told about by their high priests. Ever watch the SpongeBob episode where Patrick and SpongeBob are sitting in a box? Using their imagination, they are having the time of their life. They are expressing grace and the joy of life. That is why when Sqiudward gets in the box, it does not work for him. I see many good intelligent people here who know this. And I know if asked, each would say they got there in a A Way, that is a way. And there is in your imagination in your dreams. In the very land adults are told does not exist. Go into that land in total surrender. Just as a young child is at total surrender. You can fight all the demons you want in this land. If you lose, you don't die, you just wake up. Trust me I have woken up many nights out of dreams, dead tired from the battles within. It became a spiritual warfare to protect the name Jesus. No Wiccan spirit, Native American spirit, no Hindu, Muslim, etc spirit ever had a chance against me. I was lightening fast and could block anything. The second I went to strike, my arms turned to stiff rubber that would barely move. When I surrendered to the spirits I met, and understood they were friends trying to help, that's when I found satan is only a banana in a costume. Go with no fear into your imagination and you will learn wonders. Be a child. Blessings to all and to all a G-nite.

That whole Spong-Bob theology thing was ....well..wierd, however...that whole surrender to the spirits thing is what your problem is. I have been involved in Spiritualism. I know what it is all about. It is a phoney religion in that it is not the way to God. It is a distraction and is Demon centered. If you have any knowledge of scripture, you will know that Satanic spirits masquerade as spirits of light and workers of righteousness, but if they will not aknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord and came in the flesh they are not of God. God specifically forbids communicating with the spirit world. I think this is because he knows how gullible we are to these begiling spirits. They seduce us away from the truth, in a kind of frog in slowly heated water kind of way. Pretty soon the water is boiling and the frog is dead. You real need to stop mixing eastern philosophy and religion with Jesus Christ. As well as Frued and Nickleodean.

Daniel50
February 23rd, 2006, 08:04 PM
Romans 8;38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

thelaqachisnext
February 23rd, 2006, 11:39 PM
:thumb:

This is right on. All people born of the race of Adam which would be.....ALL people, are born in sin therefore all die. I think it is sentimental and unscrpitural to think that children are not going to be judged. This is one of the many reasons abortion is so hanious.

Sometimes the truth hurts. It is my hope that children, the unborn and those who never heard would be given a opprotunity to chose at some point, but it is only a hope. All I know is that God's ways are not our ways, His thoughts are higher than my thoughts and His ways are higher than my ways. If my intellect could comprehend Him, I probably wouldn't need Him.
I don't have time to do a Bible study for you to show you that all babies 'conceived' as seed of Adam who die before they are aware of right or wrong are covered by the once for all blood of sprinkling on the true Mercy Seat [which True Mercy Seat is the New Creation human body of the LORD Jesus Christ, who is YHWH of hosts, second Person, come in the New Creation human being body forever as our Kinsman-Redeemer/Avenger] but I would like to point you in the direction of a personal Bible Study on the oracles by giving you some thoughts to pursue in a Bible study for yourself, to study up on and follow through with, about the Mercy Seat; and the promise to Adam and all his seed, of the Redeemer who would crush the head [the authority of death and corruption] of the serpent; the Firstborn, and adoption in Him by being first cleansed by that blood of sprinkling.

Calvinism is not biblical in doctrine and has permeated the Church with poison of the serpent, but a return to learning the first principles of the oracles commited to the Jews, only, that teach the truth of Salvation for all in Adam [whosoever will] brings freedom and joy, peace and rest.

First: the oracles teach the plan of salvation by the cleansing of our being by the blood of sprinkling, the adoption, washing, and clothing of our being to make us acceptable to be glorified and a dwelling place for the Father's glory, as Adam was first created to be, and in that restoration to be made priests and kings to minister to YHWH and rule this regenerated creation in Him, the Firstborn, 'come in human flesh'.

Second: the Book of Life was written, already, from the creation of the world, and in that book, each and every single person who was to ever be conceived in Adam was already written and planned as to their bodily parts and the days they would live.

All in Adam were to have been sons of God, dwelling places for the Father's Presence of glory, singly and corporately [as the 'house', called 'Adam'], and in the fall of our firstborn, we fell from that glory which is the state of being called the first death, for which reason we must suffer physical death so that we will not be cursed to live forever, without remedy of being redeemed, in these cursed clay vessels that are of the defiled clay. Physical death is given so that we may be born again in body, if we will be born again in Spirit.

Those who will not be born again in Spirit will live forever in their own resurrected bodies 'in Adam', and be cast aways in the lake of fire forever, which is called the second death of separation forever from the glory and from the Light that now lights every man that comes into the world, in hopes that they may seek Him.

Only those in Adam who are blotted out of the Book of Life for unrepentent sin and blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be cast aways in the lake of fire; and to be blotted out, they must come to an age of accountability and resist the Holy Spirit, personally, who calls each one to know the LORD and leads all on who seek Him who first seeks them.

Babies who have been murdered before they can choose are covered by the blood of sprinkling, and their bodies are of Adam and therefore of Adam's curse, therefore they are also redeemed by the once for all blood of sprinkling, which blood was accepted for our cleansing as a corporate being, called 'Adam' and therefore they will be resurrected, regenerated in body, and also glorified with the presence of the Father's glory. getting one's name blotted out by conscious choice is the only way to be damned, and those who cannot consciously, knowingly, willfully, reject and blaspheme cannot be condemned as they would not have been condemned if the firstborn, from whom we are multiplied, had not fallen.

Also, all in Adam were seed in His loins, just as Levi was seed in Abraham's loins, and therefore paid tithes to Melche, in Abraham; even so; all in Adam were promised the Redeemer in Genesis 3:15, who would crush the authority [the head] of the serpent.
Each and every seed in Adam heard the declaration and therefore heard the promise, of the Redeemer, the Seed of the woman, brother to Adam and therefore Redeemer-Kinsman who had the power, and the will, to ransom the family and ransom the kingdom lost.

The Jews were chosen to teach the truths of the Redemption in the oracles commited to them, though they did not understand the message, and rejected the Messiah as a nation, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in [to the full harvest as sons of God in the regenerated bodies as priests and kings, in the 'Firstborn'], and learning the truths taught in the signs and symbols, types and shadows, is the only way to understand the plan of redemption, for all 'in Adam' -whosoever will.

Jesus Christ is the Kinsman-Redeemer, who 'marries' -by adoption- all seed in Adam to 'raise up' the sons for glory who were to have been born as godly seed, living sons of God, through Eve, who was called the 'mother of all living' but who never had one single living son of God after the fall of the 'firstborn' 'in Adam', our first father.


Demons who are sons of fallen angels and daughters of Adam were never written in the Book of Life, to come into being in Adam, and have no part in the atonement offered by the YHWH in flesh for His kinsmen -all in Adam, His 'brother' according to the 'created human flesh'.

Genesis 1:26-28
Genesis 3:15
Genesis 5:2
Psalm 8
Psalm 115:16
Malachi 2:15
Luke 3:38
Isaiah 49
Revelation 3:12
Exodus 32:33
Hebrews 5:12
Romans 3:2

All in Adam are chosen to be In Christ, the New Man, and all who choose Him who first chose them are 'made alive' as sons of God, in His image, and all babies and all mental babies who are not able to be accountable, mentally, for their deeds done in the body are covered by His blood of sprinkling on His own body; and the proof is that the LORD split the veil in the temple the moment that blood was accepted which was sprinkled on that body, while it hung on the cross [the true altar of sacrifice] after He departed it, having finished the work He came to do by tasting death on that cross for all 'in Adam' -"every Adam"- of the separation from the Father's presence.

Study the oracles, in the law it is taught that all are covered and none will die the second death for the first father's transgression, but only for their own conscious choices made in their own bodies while they lived in them.

We each get our time of testing in our bodies, if we live to be accountable, and those who are cast aways have no one to blame, not even father Adam, for in the day the secrets of all hearts are openly revealed it will be shown that each and every one was born in that Light that drew them on to know the LORD, and they either personally rejected that light -even if they never knew His name- and so were never given more light to be accountable and more harshly judged for, in the mercy of God, or they sought to know and were drawn on to know His name so they could call upon Him for salvation, and therefore were redeemed by the blood.

I have lots of Scriptures to show these things are so, but if you do your own research, beginning with the oracles, you will know for yourself that the mercy of God is abundant, and freely He has chosen to redeem all in Adam -only those who purposely reject or blaspheme will suffer the vengence of eternal damnation. And rejecting or neglecting that Light gets one a place in the lake of fire with the devil, his angels, and all blasphemers against the Holy Spirit.

Judgment in the everlasting fire, which is the outer darkness and where the blackness of darkness is forever, without remedy, is given according to the deeds done in the body, that one is accountable for. Some have a lower place and more torment there than others, the Word teaches, for judgment is according to the Light one had and acted against.

kmoney
February 23rd, 2006, 11:40 PM
Children have soft skin. Just as a new wineskin?

Not made rigid damning people?
The new wineskins are children?? :think:

Who's damning people?

kmoney
February 23rd, 2006, 11:41 PM
tyrciyht
:think: I think this makes more sense to me than most of your other posts.

;)

OlDove
February 24th, 2006, 02:59 PM
Romans 8;38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Thank you.

There are no demons but what we make them. See no demons.

OlDove
February 24th, 2006, 03:02 PM
The new wineskins are children?? :think:

Who's damning people?
Be like a new wine skin.

If you say only a Christian is saved. you have an illusion of the old in you.

OlDove
February 24th, 2006, 03:03 PM
:think: I think this makes more sense to me than most of your other posts.

;)
I try. :)