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BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 03:33 PM
I thought about making this a poll, but I couldn't stop laughing at how cheesy that would be.

Simple question, was Jesus a Jew?????

I am involved in a discussion with a couple other people and there seems to be some question about whether or not Jesus was a Jew. I had never heard otherwise until today.

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 03:33 PM
I tried titling the thread 'Was Jesus a Jew' but the system refused me....:think:

Zimfan
October 17th, 2005, 03:34 PM
I tried titling the thread 'Was Jesus a Jew' but the system refused me....:think:

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BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 03:36 PM
It worked on the 'edit'! :banana:

Zimfan
October 17th, 2005, 03:36 PM
According to wikipedia a Jew is "a follower of the Jewish faith, a child of a Jewish mother, or someone of Jewish descent with a connection to Jewish culture or ethnicity." At the very least I think we can all agree that Jesus was of Jewish culture and ethnicity.

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 03:37 PM
Q: Was Jesus a Jew?

A: Ethnically? Yes. Religiously? No.

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 03:37 PM
According to wikipedia a Jew is "a follower of the Jewish faith, a child of a Jewish mother, or someone of Jewish descent with a connection to Jewish culture or ethnicity." At the very least I think we can all agree that Jesus was of Jewish culture and ethnicity.

He also practiced Judaism.

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 03:38 PM
Q: Was Jesus a Jew?

A: Ethnically? Yes. Religiously? No.

What religion did he practice?

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 03:38 PM
He also practiced Judaism.I am still waiting for your Biblical evidence of this.

What religion did he practice?He was - and is - the Founder of Christianity.

Knight
October 17th, 2005, 03:39 PM
Why would anyone think Jesus wasn't a Jew?

Usually when folks make that claim you find out later they are racists.

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 03:39 PM
Why would anyone think Jesus wasn't a Jew?

Usually when folks make that claim you find oiut later they are racists.I think we are speaking more along the lines of His religious views.

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 03:40 PM
Why would anyone think Jesus wasn't a Jew?

I don't know. :confused:



Usually when folks make that claim you find oiut later they are racists.

I doubt that is the case with Mr.5020.

justchristian
October 17th, 2005, 03:40 PM
I always thought it was a standard yes that Jesus was jewish, where is one supposed to get the idea he wasn't - esspecially if said one is a Christian?

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 03:41 PM
I doubt that is the case with Mr.5020.You are correct, and thank you. :up:

Knight
October 17th, 2005, 03:41 PM
Christians follow the risen Christ. Does Christ follow the risen Christ?

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 03:41 PM
He was - and is - the Founder of Christianity.

Jesus practiced Judaism. Paul is the 'founder' of Christianity.

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 03:42 PM
I always thought it was a standard yes that Jesus was jewish, where is one supposed to get the idea he wasn't - esspecially if said one is a Christian?Do you believe that Jesus practiced the religion of Judaism? And if so, do you know why you believe that?

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 03:42 PM
Jesus practiced Judaism. Paul is the 'founder' of Christianity.I am still waiting for just one Bible verse to prove anything that you are claiming.

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 03:43 PM
Christians follow the risen Christ. Does Christ follow the risen Christ?

Who did he follow before he had risen?

Knight
October 17th, 2005, 03:43 PM
Interesting... a Rabbi that isn't Jewish. :chuckle:

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 03:44 PM
Christians follow the risen Christ. Does Christ follow the risen Christ?:think:

I assume you're being rhetorical here, so I guess I won't answer.

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 03:44 PM
I am still waiting for just one Bible verse to prove anything that you are claiming.

I'm not going to start chasing Bible verses down, it is an historical fact that Jesus was a Jew. He even talked about non Jews as being dogs.

I'm still waiting for you to provide scripture which shows that Jesus was anything BUT a Jew.

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 03:45 PM
Interesting... a Rabbi that isn't Jewish. :chuckle:
Exactly!

Linkin217
October 17th, 2005, 03:46 PM
he was a jew becasue people called him rabbi
John 1:38 "Jesus looked around and saw them following. “What do you want?” he asked them.
They replied, “Rabbi” (which means Teacher), “where are you staying?”
so he would have been a teacher of the jewish faith

Lovejoy
October 17th, 2005, 03:46 PM
Is this sort of liking asking if Jesus was under the law? Cause then I get all confused.

Knight
October 17th, 2005, 03:47 PM
Jesus could have corrected the Samaritan woman when she said....

John 4:9 Then the woman of Samaria said to Him, “How is it that You, being a Jew, ask a drink from me, a Samaritan woman?” For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.

Knight
October 17th, 2005, 03:49 PM
This is one of those silly topics because all you need to do is read the gospels and you will be overwlemed with evidence that Jesus was a Jew.

It's like... where do I sart? :chuckle:

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 03:52 PM
I'm not going to start chasing Bible verses down, it is an historical fact that Jesus was a Jew. He even talked about non Jews as being dogs.

I'm still waiting for you to provide scripture which shows that Jesus was anything BUT a Jew.
Here...

Matthew 12:1-14 KJV

(1) At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were hungry, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
(2) But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
(3) But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was hungry, and they that were with him;
(4) How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests
(5) Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless
(6) But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
(7) But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
(8) For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
(9) And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:
(10) And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
(11) And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
(12) How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
(13) Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.
(14) Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.

Jesus was starting the "relationship is more important than rules" religion here.

Linkin217
October 17th, 2005, 03:53 PM
Jesus practiced Judaism. Paul is the 'founder' of Christianity.

The word christian was originaly an insult before that came about were followers of Christ or diciples of Christ and Christianity is not as much of a religion as it is a relationship with, you guessed it Christ:bannana:

Knight
October 17th, 2005, 03:53 PM
Tonight's homework....

Find the following verse in the Bible....

And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

Then, determine if this was before, during or after Jesus earthly ministry.

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 03:53 PM
This is one of those silly topics because all you need to do is read the gospels and you will be overwlemed with evidence that Jesus was a Jew.

It's like... where do I sart? :chuckle:


That is exactly what I told Mr. 5020 when he asked for scriptural proof, I suggested the 4 Gospels. :doh:

Knight
October 17th, 2005, 03:55 PM
Here...

Jesus was starting the "relationship is more important than rules" religion here.Jesus wasn't changing anything!

The relationship was ALWAYS more important than the rules. Jesus spend a good amount of time trying to correct this error.

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 03:55 PM
Tonight's homework....

Find the following verse in the Bible....

And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.Acts 11:26

Then, determine if this was before, during or after Jesus earthly ministry.After.

Knight
October 17th, 2005, 03:55 PM
I suggested the 4 Gospels. :doh::chuckle:

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 03:55 PM
Jesus wasn't changing anything!

The relationship was ALWAYS more important than the rules. Jesus spend a good amount of time trying to correct this error.Against the wish of the leaders of Judaism.

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 03:56 PM
Tonight's homework....

Find the following verse in the Bible....

And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

Then, determine if this was before, during or after Jesus earthly ministry.

Sounds Pauline.

Looks like 5020 already got it.

Knight
October 17th, 2005, 03:57 PM
Mr. 5020 what do you think Jesus was?

Jesus, King of the what?

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 03:58 PM
Against the wish of the leaders of Judaism.

Of course, but the question is 'Why' did the Jewish leaders protest?

Knight
October 17th, 2005, 03:58 PM
Against the wish of the leaders of Judaism.The Pharisees were bad leaders. Jesus was correcting them.

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 03:59 PM
Mr. 5020 what do you think Jesus was?

Jesus, King of the what?King of the Jews.

Linkin217
October 17th, 2005, 03:59 PM
good thinking simmons

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 03:59 PM
The Pharisees were bad leaders. Jesus was correcting them.So, it would be safe to say that He was not practicing with them.

Knight
October 17th, 2005, 04:00 PM
good thinking simmonsHuh?

Oh and... your signature image is way too tall can you make it more subtle please?

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 04:01 PM
So, it would be safe to say that He was not practicing with them.

Jesus recognized that THEY were not praticing Judaism properly.

They had turned it into legalism and a business.

Knight
October 17th, 2005, 04:01 PM
So, it would be safe to say that He was not practicing with them.Yes.

The Phariees do not represent judaism, Jesus did.

You might say Jesus was the King of the Jews. :)

koban
October 17th, 2005, 04:01 PM
So, it would be safe to say that He was not practicing with them.



Whaddaya mean - like jammin' ? :jazz:

justchristian
October 17th, 2005, 04:01 PM
True Judaism was about the relationship with God and pointed to Christ, Jesus was a true Jew renoucing false Judaism (legalism, pharasees etc). Jesus not being a Jew is like someone not being a Christian in Midevil Europe because they did not believe what the Church claimed was Christianity yet had a relationship with Christ via the Holy Spirit.

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 04:02 PM
Yes.

The Phariees do not represent judaism, Jesus did.

You might say Jesus was the King of the Jews. :)

:up:

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 04:03 PM
Jesus recognized that THEY were not praticing Judaism properly.Oh, I see. So He was simply starting the Jewish Reformation, not a new religion entirely. I can agree with that. However, with that line of thinking we would have to say that all non-Messianic Jews are not practicing Judaism properly.

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 04:03 PM
Whaddaya mean - like jammin' ? :jazz:Yes. That is exactly what I mean. :)

Knight
October 17th, 2005, 04:04 PM
Oh, I see. So He was simply starting the Jewish Reformation, not a new religion entirely. I can agree with that. However, with that line of thinking we would have to say that all non-Messianic Jews are not practicing Judaism properly.Anyone (and everyone) who is practicing judaism now is in error.

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 04:05 PM
Anyone (and everyone) who is practicing judaism now is in error.So, would it be safe to say that Jesus started a new religion, nameless as it might have been at the time?

Linkin217
October 17th, 2005, 04:06 PM
that better (and that simmons comment its from this series i watch i say to any one who i agree with)

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 04:07 PM
So, would it be safe to say that Jesus started a new religion, nameless as it might have been at the time?

No.

justchristian
October 17th, 2005, 04:09 PM
So, would it be safe to say that Jesus started a new religion, nameless as it might have been at the time? I wouldnt say he started a new religion so much as he refocused the true but stray religion.

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 04:09 PM
No.So Jesus is still practicing Judaism, even though

Anyone (and everyone) who is practicing judaism now is in error.

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 04:10 PM
I wouldnt say he started a new religion so much as he refocused the true but stray religion.So Christians are really Jews, and Jews are really lost?

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 04:11 PM
So Jesus is still practicing Judaism, even though

You are deliberately mixing up the time line.

The question I posed at the begining of this thread was simple and straightforward: "Was Jesus a Jew?". The answer to that question is: "Yes, Jesus was a Jew".

Lovejoy
October 17th, 2005, 04:12 PM
So Christians are really Jews, and Jews are really lost?
I have always viewed the Cross as the source of change (so to speak).

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 04:13 PM
You are deliberately mixing up the time line.

The question I posed at the begining of this thread was simple and straightforward: "Was Jesus a Jew?". The answer to that question is: "Yes, Jesus was a Jew".It wasn't deliberate. I wasn't on the same page you were.

I suppose we were measuring it by different standards. I was looking at it from the standard of the Jewish leaders, and by their standard He was not a Jew. You were looking at it by what God wanted the Jewish religion to be.

Knight
October 17th, 2005, 04:13 PM
So, would it be safe to say that Jesus started a new religion, nameless as it might have been at the time?No... Jesus was upholding the same religion that God gave to Abraham.

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 04:14 PM
I have always viewed the Cross as the source of change (so to speak).The change of what? Jesus' religion?

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 04:14 PM
No... Jesus was upholding the same religion that God gave to Abraham.I think we are on the same page now.

I suppose we were measuring it by different standards. I was looking at it from the standard of the Jewish leaders, and by their standard He was not a Jew. You were looking at it by what God wanted the Jewish religion to be.

Knight
October 17th, 2005, 04:15 PM
Mr. 5020 why do you think the Pharisees were good examples of Judaism?

Where are you getting that?

Knight
October 17th, 2005, 04:15 PM
I think we are on the same page now.:up:

Knight
October 17th, 2005, 04:15 PM
Does anyone know who was the first member of the Body of Christ?

justchristian
October 17th, 2005, 04:18 PM
Adam?

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 04:19 PM
Mr. 5020 why do you think the Pharisees were good examples of Judaism?

Where are you getting that?I didn't think they were good examples, per se. I was just assuming they were the standard that we were measuring with.

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 04:20 PM
Does anyone know who was the first member of the Body of Christ?I am completely guessing.

Stephen.

Knight
October 17th, 2005, 04:20 PM
Adam?Nope.

As far as I know Adam is in hell, did Adam ever find a way to redeem himself?

Now we are really going off topic! :D

Knight
October 17th, 2005, 04:21 PM
I am completely guessing.

Stephen.Pretty good guess, but no.

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 04:21 PM
Nope.

As far as I know Adam is in hell, did Adam ever find a way to redeem himself?

Now we are really going off topic! :DIndeed.

But, as far as you know isn't much, since we really have no idea.

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 04:22 PM
Pretty good guess, but no.What about....

Oh! Oh!

Abraham?

Lovejoy
October 17th, 2005, 04:24 PM
What about....

Oh! Oh!

Abraham?
That would have been my guess.

ItIsWritten
October 17th, 2005, 04:26 PM
Jesus.

Knight
October 17th, 2005, 04:26 PM
What about....

Oh! Oh!

Abraham?Nope.

Emo
October 17th, 2005, 04:27 PM
Paul

kmoney
October 17th, 2005, 04:27 PM
Paul?

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 04:29 PM
Jesus.The first member of the Body of Jesus was Jesus?

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 04:30 PM
Does anyone know who was the first member of the Body of Christ?The bread at the Last Supper. :D

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 04:30 PM
I suppose we were measuring it by different standards. I was looking at it from the standard of the Jewish leaders, and by their standard He was not a Jew.

When the Jewish leaders petitioned Pilate about punishing Jesus, did they not refer to Jewish law as the basis of their complaint?

ItIsWritten
October 17th, 2005, 04:30 PM
The first member of the Body of Jesus was Jesus?
"firstborn from the dead" + "head of the body"

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead;

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 04:31 PM
When the Jewish leaders petitioned Pilate about punishing Jesus, did they not refer to Jewish law as the basis of their complaint?Yes, but I can't say I'm sure what your point is.

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 04:32 PM
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead;Woah-dang! Well done.

I don't know if that's the right answer, but you get an "A" for effort.

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 04:33 PM
Yes, but I can't say I'm sure what your point is.

My point is that if they did not recognize Jesus as a Jew they would have had no case.

Knight
October 17th, 2005, 04:33 PM
For those that answered "Paul" can you prove it? :D

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 04:34 PM
My point is that if they did not recognize Jesus as a Jew they would have had no case.Hmm...interesting point. Not sure that I don't think they were speaking of ethnicity, but I'll look into it.

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 04:35 PM
For those that answered "Paul" can you prove it? :D
The Apostle Paul, by his own words in I Timothy 1:15-16 was the first member of the Church, the Body of Christ.
1 Timothy 1:15 KJV
(15) This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Not sure I agree with this interpretation, but there you go.

Knight
October 17th, 2005, 04:36 PM
"firstborn from the dead" + "head of the body"

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead;Good answer but Jesus is the head of the Body (the leader or head so to speak) I was asking who was the first member of that Body. Jesus by definition couldn't be a member of His own body of believers for He is what is being believed upon.

justchristian
October 17th, 2005, 04:37 PM
Body of Christ means in relationship with God right? Just because Adam is no longer part of the body doesnt mean he wasnt the first member in the Garden. Or are people before the coming of Christ excluded from the the body? If not, and Adam did not choose his relationship with God then Noah perhaps?

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 04:37 PM
Hmm...interesting point. Not sure that I don't think they were speaking of ethnicity, but I'll look into it.

One more thing.

Do you think there was any differentiation back then between an ethnic Jew and a religious Jew?

This is more of an historical question, but there may be some posters here who have some knowledge about this topic. I do not claim such knowledge, but I have a hunch that they were one in the same.

Emo
October 17th, 2005, 04:37 PM
For those that answered "Paul" can you prove it? :D

Sure, one must simply begin at Acts 9.

kmoney
October 17th, 2005, 04:38 PM
Act 9:14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Act 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 04:38 PM
One more thing.

Do you think there was any differentiation back then between an ethnic Jew and a religious Jew?

This is more of an historical question, but there may be some posters here who have some knowledge about this topic. I do not claim such knowledge, but I have a hunch that they were one in the same.I'm honestly not sure, but to say that 100% of people born into a Jewish family practiced Judaism seems implausible.

Knight
October 17th, 2005, 04:39 PM
Not sure I agree with this interpretation, but there you go.Very good! You win the booby prize. :D

1Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.

The "chief" in verse 15 literally means first.

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 04:42 PM
Very good! You win the booby prize. :D

1Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.

The "chief" in verse 15 literally means first.I guess I only win half, because I did not guess Paul. I guessed Stephen, Abraham, and the bread at the Last Supper (which I still think is the correct answer). :D

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 04:43 PM
I'm honestly not sure, but to say that 100% of people born into a Jewish family practiced Judaism seems implausible.

Not to me....not 2000 years ago. We know that Jesus practiced, of course. My limited understanding of that time period is that Jews would cast out people from the community for various reasons. Being cast out was certainly unsafe for an individual, that alone would be reason enough to practice the religion.

But we are drifting from the topic a bit. I have one more example that Jesus was acknowledged as a Jew by the Jewish leadership: Jesus was allowed into the Temple.

Knight
October 17th, 2005, 04:44 PM
I guess I only win half, because I did not guess Paul. I guessed Stephen, Abraham, and the bread at the Last Supper (which I still think is the correct answer). :DTrue but you did come up with the proof text. :up:

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 04:46 PM
Not to me....not 2000 years ago. We know that Jesus practiced, of course. My limited understanding of that time period is that Jews would cast out people from the community for various reasons. Being cast out was certainly unsafe for an individual, that alone would be reason enough to practice the religion.

But we are drifting from the topic a bit. I have one more example that Jesus was acknowledged as a Jew by the Jewish leadership: Jesus was allowed into the Temple.From what I understand, any Jew (ethnically) was allowed in the temple.

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 04:48 PM
True but you did come up with the proof text. :up:But what about the bread???

Matthew 26:26 KJV
(26) And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

justchristian
October 17th, 2005, 04:49 PM
1Timothy 1:15 is refering to Paul counting himself worst among sinners not the first among sinners to be saved.

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 04:51 PM
1Timothy 1:15 is refering to Paul counting himself worst among sinners not the first among sinners to be saved.That's what I thought as well, but, in context, verse 16 seems to close the deal.

justchristian
October 17th, 2005, 04:55 PM
15Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. 16But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life. ???

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 04:56 PM
???Different version?


1 Timothy 1:15-16 KJV
(15) This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
(16) Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 04:59 PM
I guess the topic has shifted........


Does anyone know who was the first member of the Body of Christ?

How exactly is the 'Body' defined?

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 05:03 PM
I guess the topic has shifted........



How exactly is the 'Body' defined?The Bible says that all Christians are members of the Body of Christ.


1 Corinthians 12:12-27 KJV
(12) For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
(13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(14) For the body is not one member, but many.
(15) If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
(16) And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
(17) If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
(18) But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
(19) And if they were all one member, where were the body?
(20) But now are they many members, yet but one body.
(21) And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
(22) Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
(23) And those members of the body, which we think to be less honorable, upon these we bestow more abundant honor; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
(24) For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honor to that part which lacked:
(25) That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
(26) And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honored, all the members rejoice with it.
(27) Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 05:05 PM
When did the 'Body of Christ' originate?

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 05:06 PM
When did the 'Body of Christ' originate?As we have talked about in this thread, with Paul.

justchristian
October 17th, 2005, 05:06 PM
Different version?
1 Timothy 1:15-16 KJV
(15) This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
(16) Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

"first" in verse 16 and "chief" in 15 are same greek meaning


1) first in time or place
a) in any succession of things or persons

2) first in rank
a) influence, honour
b) chief
c) principal

3) first, at the first

NIV and NLT translate as worst. I think the overall context and logic would suggest that he is refering to first in place (worst to be saved) not first in time (first to be saved).

ItIsWritten
October 17th, 2005, 05:07 PM
verse 16 seems to close the deal
FYI - 1Ti 1:16
Howbeit 235 for this 5124 cause 1223 I obtained mercy 1653 , that 2443 in 1722 me 1698 first 4413

Greek for 4413 - protos {pro'-tos}
[contracted superlative of 4253 (see below)]
Part of Speech - adj
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) first in time or place
a) in any succession of things or persons
2) first in rank
a) influence, honour
b) chief
c) principal
3) first, at the first

Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 104
AV - first 84, chief 9, first day 2, former 2, misc 7; 104

---
Greek for 4253 - pro {pro}
Part of Speech prep
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) before

Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 48
AV - before 44, above 2, above ... ago 1, or ever 1; 48

-----

Moreover, the purpose clause needs to harmonize with one's understanding of the verse.

The purpose clause here being: "might show all longsuffering
for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting."

[might shew forth 1731 all 3956 longsuffering 3115, for 4314 a pattern 5296 to them which should hereafter 3195 believe 4100 on 1909 him 846 to 1519 life 2222 everlasting 166]

But enought said on this. Just food for thought.

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 05:07 PM
As we have talked about in this thread, with Paul.

So what were the disciples?

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 05:08 PM
"first" in verse 16 and "chief" in 15 are same greek meaning

1) first in time or place
a) in any succession of things or persons

2) first in rank
a) influence, honour
b) chief
c) principal

3) first, at the firstYour very first definition is first in time or place. So, how would Paul not have been the first?

NIV and NLT translate as worst. I think the overall context and logic would suggest that he is refering to first in place (worst to be saved) not first in time (first to be saved).You'll notice that my quote says KJV next to it.

justchristian
October 17th, 2005, 05:09 PM
So? The KJV is a poor translation.

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 05:09 PM
So what were the disciples?Like I said, I don't necessarily agree with Knight's interpreation of 1 Timothy 1:15-16, so maybe he should answer that one.

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 05:09 PM
So? The KJV is a poor translation.Ok, oh Great Linguist. :bow:

Which translation doest thou biddest me to use?

justchristian
October 17th, 2005, 05:10 PM
Any just check the greek:) I always do.

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 05:11 PM
Any just check the greek:) I always do.What if Strong's Concordance is a poor translation? Then you're in trouble.

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 05:12 PM
This is a topic I have often wondered about.

As you read in my post earlier, I credit Paul with the 'invention' of 'Christianity' but what were the followers of Christ considered as before Paul came around?

Also, what is the significance of the 'Body'?

Was the thief on the cross a member?

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 05:14 PM
This is a topic I have often wondered about.

As you read in my post earlier, I credit Paul with the 'invention' of 'Christianity' but what were the followers of Christ considered as before Paul came around?

Also, what is the significance of the 'Body'?

Was the thief on the cross a member?Ask :knight:!! (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12147&highlight=knight)

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 05:16 PM
Where the heck did he go? He walks in, hijacks my thread and then leaves me hanging! :sozo2:

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 05:19 PM
Where the heck did he go? He walks in, hijacks my thread and then leaves me hanging! :sozo2::chuckle:

Lovejoy
October 17th, 2005, 05:20 PM
Where the heck did he go? He walks in, hijacks my thread and then leaves me hanging! :sozo2:
So, I am confused. Was Jesus a Jew, the head of Paul's body, or a piece of bread?

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 05:21 PM
So, I am confused. Was Jesus a Jew, the head of Paul's body, or a piece of bread?A piece of bread!

kmoney
October 17th, 2005, 05:21 PM
So, I am confused. Was Jesus a Jew, the head of Paul's body, or a piece of bread?
I think it's clear that He's all 3 :)
The trinity of Christ

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 05:21 PM
I think it's clear that He's all 3 :)
The trinity of Christ:chuckle:

Lovejoy
October 17th, 2005, 05:25 PM
I think it's clear that He's all 3 :)
The trinity of Christ
That is clearly a heresy. No aspect of the Trinity should be an integral part of sandwich making.

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 05:26 PM
That is clearly a heresy. No aspect of the Trinity should be an integral part of sandwich making.:shocked:

Dare you blaspheme the holy sandwich end (the unpardonable sin)?

kmoney
October 17th, 2005, 05:27 PM
That is clearly a heresy. No aspect of the Trinity should be an integral part of sandwich making.
Even if the sandwich has Mother Mary on it?
http://news.com.com/2061-10786_3-5455245.html

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 05:28 PM
Even if the sandwich has Mother Mary on it?
http://news.com.com/2061-10786_3-5455245.html:darwinsm:

Lovejoy
October 17th, 2005, 05:28 PM
:shocked:

Dare you blaspheme the holy sandwich end (the unpardonable sin)?
I challenge your doctrine, as my new theology is low carb.

Mr. 5020
October 17th, 2005, 05:29 PM
I challenge your doctrine, as my new theology is low carb.He becomes a sandwich to the smart people, and a wrap to the low-carb people. He becomes all things to all people, that all may be saved.

Lovejoy
October 17th, 2005, 05:31 PM
Even if the sandwich has Mother Mary on it?
http://news.com.com/2061-10786_3-5455245.html
:chuckle: Far be from me to challenge a grilled cheese that can help you roll an eight the hard way.

Lovejoy
October 17th, 2005, 05:32 PM
He becomes a sandwich to the smart people, and a wrap to the low-carb people. He becomes all things to all people, that all may be saved.
But what really matters if we will have a body fat below 8% at the rapture! I want to be ripped when he returns.

kmoney
October 17th, 2005, 05:34 PM
But what really matters if we will have a body fat below 8% at the rapture! I want to be ripped when he returns.
:rotfl:

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 05:47 PM
If anybody ever deserved to have one of his threads hijacked, I guess it would be me........[I've certainly hijacked my share over the years]

You guys! :chuckle:

Lovejoy
October 17th, 2005, 06:01 PM
If anybody ever deserved to have one of his threads hijacked, I guess it would be me........[I've certainly hijacked my share over the years]

You guys! :chuckle:
Well, you know, we were just trying to keep the thread at the top of the active page until Knight came back to answer your questions. If he can find them now, that is.

noguru
October 17th, 2005, 06:03 PM
Does anyone know who was the first member of the Body of Christ?

Logically it would be John The Bapstist. He was the first to realize who Jesus really was. I offer Mathew chapter 3 as evidence of this. Since the new covenant that was brought to us by Jesus, was to correct all the corruption that had befallen Judaism. And John the Bapstist was the first to recognize the issue and see Jesus as the messiah who was to atone for this corruption that the Jews could not escape. He was also the first to use the Jewish custom of a spiritually cleansing bath as a represenation of immersion in the Holy Ghost. Two very important differences between Judaism and Christianity

Agape4Robin
October 17th, 2005, 06:08 PM
Logically it would be John The Bapstiste. He was the first to realize who Jesus really was. I offer Mathew chapter 3 as evidence of this. Since the new covenant that was brought to us by Jesus, was to correct all the corruption that had befallen Judaism. And John the Bapstist was the first to recognize the issue and see Jesus as the messiah who was to atone for this corruption that the Jews could not escape. He was also the first to use the Jewish costume of a spiritually cleansing bath as a represenation of immersion in the Holy Ghost. Two very important differences between Judaism and Christianity:doh: Wish I'd thought of that!

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 06:37 PM
Well, you know, we were just trying to keep the thread at the top of the active page until Knight came back to answer your questions. If he can find them now, that is.

:eek:

Turbo
October 17th, 2005, 06:47 PM
NIV and NLT translate as worst.
At first I thought you had written, "NIV and NLT translate the worst." And I was going to say, Amen!

Lovejoy
October 17th, 2005, 07:01 PM
At first I thought you had written, "NIV and NLT translate the worst." And I was going to say, Amen!
Ha! That was what I thought when I first saw it! :chuckle:

God_Is_Truth
October 17th, 2005, 07:02 PM
Ha! That was what I thought when I first saw it! :chuckle:

well i'm glad i wasn't alone on this either :D

Agape4Robin
October 17th, 2005, 07:15 PM
Care to join the "question thread?" where we explore this concept of Jesus's jewishness? :think:

Letsargue
October 17th, 2005, 08:58 PM
Care to join the "question thread?" where we explore this concept of Jesus's jewishness? :think:

---Luke 1:5---“A certain priest named Zacharias, and the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her and her name was Elisabeth”
---Luke 1:36 –The Angel said to Mary, “Behold thy –COUSIN- Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son”, (John the Baptist).
---Zacharias and his wife Elisabeth were both Levites, of the tribe of Levi. Elisabeth was even descended from Aaron the first High Priest, the brother of Moses. Being cousins, that makes Mary also descended from Aaron, and a Levite ‘virgin’. THAT MEANS Christ was born a Levite of a Levite woman. Joseph, who was a Jew, and had nothing to do with Christ’s birth, therefore Christ was born a Levite descended from Aaron, and is the High Priest, and King of the Jews.
*
-------------Paul---
*

Crow
October 17th, 2005, 08:59 PM
Hey! Look who just joined the party!

:Letsargu:

Jujubee
October 17th, 2005, 09:19 PM
so hey is Jesus a Jew

BillyBob
October 17th, 2005, 09:32 PM
---Luke 1:5---“A certain priest named Zacharias, and the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her and her name was Elisabeth”
---Luke 1:36 –The Angel said to Mary, “Behold thy –COUSIN- Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son”, (John the Baptist).
---Zacharias and his wife Elisabeth were both Levites, of the tribe of Levi. Elisabeth was even descended from Aaron the first High Priest, the brother of Moses. Being cousins, that makes Mary also descended from Aaron, and a Levite ‘virgin’. THAT MEANS Christ was born a Levite of a Levite woman. Joseph, who was a Jew, and had nothing to do with Christ’s birth, therefore Christ was born a Levite descended from Aaron, and is the High Priest, and King of the Jews.
*
-------------Paul---
*

*
-------------:BillyBob:---
*

kmoney
October 17th, 2005, 09:40 PM
:Letsargu:

God_Is_Truth
October 17th, 2005, 09:47 PM
so hey is Jesus a Jew

nothing presented has convinced me otherwise.

stunrut
October 18th, 2005, 03:48 AM
Good heavens, what have I started?

Frank Ernest
October 18th, 2005, 04:55 AM
Jesus was a descendant of both David and Aaron. Therefore, he was of the tribes of both Judah (king) and Levi (priest).

I do not see a problem here.

Letsargue
October 18th, 2005, 05:25 AM
Jesus was a descendant of both David and Aaron. Therefore, he was of the tribes of both Judah (king) and Levi (priest).

I do not see a problem here.

---Luke3:23—“And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph”,
---Two things, Jesus began to be when he was baptized of John, the baptism of repentance. JESUS did not need to repent. --- He was about 30 years old, but what was important is, Jesus 'began to be the 'son of Joseph' at baptism. Jesus was baptized into the family of the Jews. That's the only way Jesus could be of the Jews after that, Jesus was baptized into the family of the Jews, and we are baptized into Jesus after he was anointed King of the Jews, making Jesus the CHRIST, and died.
*
------------Paul---
*

One Eyed Jack
October 18th, 2005, 05:40 AM
Maybe I'm confused, but how can the Jewish Messiah and King of the Jews not be a Jew?

koban
October 18th, 2005, 05:44 AM
You're confused? Think how Letsargue must feel!

Granite
October 18th, 2005, 06:24 AM
Just my two cents, but he did go to the temple and seemed to attend synagogue. Even early Christians went to synagogue. I would think it's not unreasonable to assume Jesus was a practicing Jew.

ItIsWritten
October 18th, 2005, 07:03 AM
Jesus was a descendant of both David and Aaron. Therefore, he was of the tribes of both Judah (king) and Levi (priest).
Not!

Mat 1:1-3 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat...

Since Phares didn't have to earthly fathers, that leaves out Aaron/Levi - END OF DEBATE!

But wait, there's more...

Luk 3:33-34 ...which was [the son] of Phares, which was [the son] of Juda, which was [the son] of Jacob, which was [the son] of Isaac, which was [the son] of Abraham...

You get TWO, that's TWO, New Testament records that confirm Phares descended from Juda -- not Levi

(Thus your Arron/Levi assertion is patently unscriptural!)

But wait! There's still more!

If you'll read your Bible today, we have the following gift especailly for you!

Hbr 7:14 - -

"For evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda... ([I]Juda... JUDA... {echo effect here})...

of which tribe Moses spake nothing (Nothing! Nothing! {echo effect here}) concerning priesthood."

Heberews 7:14.

Again that's, H E B E R E W S seven-fourteen!

Read NOW!

[End of argument. You loose. God wins.]

Granite
October 18th, 2005, 07:10 AM
I think somebody needs to take a chill out pill...

ItIsWritten
October 18th, 2005, 07:15 AM
Sorry. I didn't realize that a sense of humor would offend and violate the "chill" ordinance.

Granite
October 18th, 2005, 07:17 AM
Interestingly enough, "humor" is generally understood to mean something, ah, humorous.

ItIsWritten
October 18th, 2005, 07:19 AM
And you're the judge. So obviously my attempt failed misserably.

Guess I won't quit my job and become a comic.

BillyBob
October 18th, 2005, 07:20 AM
Good thinking.

ItIsWritten
October 18th, 2005, 07:31 AM
Out of the mouth of two witnesses...

So I'll try this again (sans mock-TV-ad format).


Jesus was a descendant of both David and Aaron. Therefore, he was of the tribes of both Judah (king) and Levi (priest).
Not according to scripture:

Mat 1:1-3 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat...

Luk 3:33-34 ...which was [the son] of Phares, which was [the son] of Juda, which was [the son] of Jacob, which was [the son] of Isaac, which was [the son] of Abraham...

Since Phares didn't have to earthly fathers, that leaves out Aaron/Levi.

Furthermore, according to Hbr 7:14 - "our Lord sprang out of Juda, of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood."

Letsargue
October 18th, 2005, 02:17 PM
Maybe I'm confused, but how can the Jewish Messiah and King of the Jews not be a Jew?


---I didn't say Christ was not a Jew, I said Christ became the son of Joseph a Jew, when he was baptized, makeing Christ a Jew at Baptism, and not before. that what the scriptures said.
*
------------Paul---
*

koban
October 18th, 2005, 02:56 PM
Not!

Mat 1:1-3 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat...

Since Phares didn't have to earthly fathers, that leaves out Aaron/Levi - END OF DEBATE!

But wait, there's more...

Luk 3:33-34 ...which was [the son] of Phares, which was [the son] of Juda, which was [the son] of Jacob, which was [the son] of Isaac, which was [the son] of Abraham...

You get TWO, that's TWO, New Testament records that confirm Phares descended from Juda -- not Levi

(Thus your Arron/Levi assertion is patently unscriptural!)

But wait! There's still more!

If you'll read your Bible today, we have the following gift especailly for you!

Hbr 7:14 - -

"For evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda... ([I]Juda... JUDA... {echo effect here})...

of which tribe Moses spake nothing (Nothing! Nothing! {echo effect here}) concerning priesthood."

Heberews 7:14.

Again that's, H E B E R E W S seven-fourteen!

Read NOW!

[End of argument. You loose. God wins.]


I hope you had as much fun writing that as I did reading it! :thumb:

Welcome to TOL!

koban
October 18th, 2005, 03:00 PM
---I didn't say Christ was not a Jew, I said Christ became the son of Joseph a Jew, when he was baptized, makeing Christ a Jew at Baptism, and not before. that what the scriptures said.
*
------------Paul---
*


Are you claiming that Jesus was not raised in the Jewish faith as a child?

seekinganswers
October 18th, 2005, 11:04 PM
Let's see...

He was born of a Jewish mother and to a Jewish Father.

He was circumcised on the eighth day.

He was dedicated in the temple after the time of purification.

He learned from the Rabbis and teachers of the synagogues and temples.

He went to the festival of the passover every year with his parents (and into his adulthood with his disciples).

Throughout his life he went to Synagogue on the Sabbath (which was describe as his "custom" later on in his life).

He became a Rabbi (which is the Jewish word for a teacher of the law).

When Jesus teaches his disciples he instructs them often in Torah.

Jesus takes up the title "Messiah" and "Christ," both terms that were used for the "annointed one," and were particular to the King of the Jews.

Jesus lives in Palestine among Jews his entire life (even his twelve apostles are Jews).

Jesus takes 12 apostle, falling in line with the tradition of Israel (where twelve tribes were the whole of Israel).

Jesus had the rights of a Jew in the Roman empire.

Jesus was put to death on a cross (which would only have been allowed for one who was not a citizen of Rome).

Do I need to continue? Asking if Jesus is a Jew is like asking whether the sky is blue. Jesus comes in fulfillment of the law and the prophets. What else could he be other than a Jew?

Peace,
Michael

koban
October 18th, 2005, 11:21 PM
Let's see...

He was born of a Jewish mother and to a Jewish Father.

He was circumcised on the eighth day.

He was dedicated in the temple after the time of purification.

He learned from the Rabbis and teachers of the synagogues and temples.

He went to the festival of the passover every year with his parents (and into his adulthood with his disciples).

Throughout his life he went to Synagogue on the Sabbath (which was describe as his "custom" later on in his life).

He became a Rabbi (which is the Jewish word for a teacher of the law).

When Jesus teaches his disciples he instructs them often in Torah.

Jesus takes up the title "Messiah" and "Christ," both terms that were used for the "annointed one," and were particular to the King of the Jews.

Jesus lives in Palestine among Jews his entire life (even his twelve apostles are Jews).

Jesus takes 12 apostle, falling in line with the tradition of Israel (where twelve tribes were the whole of Israel).

Jesus had the rights of a Jew in the Roman empire.

Jesus was put to death on a cross (which would only have been allowed for one who was not a citizen of Rome).

Do I need to continue? Asking if Jesus is a Jew is like asking whether the sky is blue. Jesus comes in fulfillment of the law and the prophets. What else could he be other than a Jew?

Peace,
Michael


Well - there you have it!

He couldn't have been a Jew!! :hammer: :dizzy:

stunrut
October 19th, 2005, 11:33 AM
Let's see...

He was born of a Jewish mother and to a Jewish Father.

He was circumcised on the eighth day.

He was dedicated in the temple after the time of purification.

He learned from the Rabbis and teachers of the synagogues and temples.

He went to the festival of the passover every year with his parents (and into his adulthood with his disciples).

Throughout his life he went to Synagogue on the Sabbath (which was describe as his "custom" later on in his life).

He became a Rabbi (which is the Jewish word for a teacher of the law).

When Jesus teaches his disciples he instructs them often in Torah.

Jesus takes up the title "Messiah" and "Christ," both terms that were used for the "annointed one," and were particular to the King of the Jews.

Jesus lives in Palestine among Jews his entire life (even his twelve apostles are Jews).

Jesus takes 12 apostle, falling in line with the tradition of Israel (where twelve tribes were the whole of Israel).

Jesus had the rights of a Jew in the Roman empire.

Jesus was put to death on a cross (which would only have been allowed for one who was not a citizen of Rome).

Do I need to continue? Asking if Jesus is a Jew is like asking whether the sky is blue. Jesus comes in fulfillment of the law and the prophets. What else could he be other than a Jew?

Peace,
Michael

Well said. Thank you.

ItIsWritten
October 20th, 2005, 07:47 AM
I am involved in a discussion with a couple other people and there seems to be some question about whether or not Jesus was a Jew.
BB, You titled this thread "Was Jesus a Jew?" so it would seem that these "other people" have raised what you see as a reasonable question. You say "seems to be some question about whether or not Jesus was a Jew" but I haven't found where you've said what is the basis of any such question is. (If I missed where you said this I'm sorry.) So how about letting us know what issue(s) these people have raised that led you to post this question.

BillyBob
October 20th, 2005, 07:50 AM
This discussion started in another thread as a side issue so I started this thread to discuss the Jewishness of Jesus directly.

koban
October 20th, 2005, 07:52 AM
Besides, "Are People Who Question Whether Jesus Was A Jew Totally Insane, Or Just Temporarily, Due To Glue Sniffing" wouldn't have fit on the Active Threads screen. :D

Sealeaf
October 20th, 2005, 08:05 AM
As Koban suggested this is a question for fruitcakes. Who thinks Jesus was not a Jew ? What do they think He was if not a Jew? What kind of ax are they trying to grind?

BillyBob
October 20th, 2005, 08:08 AM
Besides, "Are People Who Question Whether Jesus Was A Jew Totally Insane, Or Just Temporarily, Due To Glue Sniffing" wouldn't have fit on the Active Threads screen. :D

No. But it would have gotten LA's attention! :dizzy:

ItIsWritten
October 20th, 2005, 08:10 AM
This discussion started in another thread as a side issue so I started this thread to discuss the Jewishness of Jesus directly.
Fine. But I'm still wondering what was/is the supposed basis upon which the quesiton is based. Surely you didn't think that it was an entirely basisless and foolish question or you would not have started this thread, so something must have caught your eye. I'd be interested to know what was. Was there some point of tension in the scritures that they pointed to or did these "other people" cite any verses as prompting them to suggest this?

BillyBob
October 20th, 2005, 08:13 AM
Here is where it all started....

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23450

Sealeaf
October 20th, 2005, 08:53 AM
Ok. I understand that Jesus was Jewish. I also understand that the Jewish don't believe in the second coming of Jesus. So, since the second coming of Christ what does that make him now? Is he still Jewish? It would appear that the poster believes the second coming has already happened. I hope he is wrong about that because I don't think it would be a good thing to have missed.
His question assumes that inorder for Jesus to be a "Jew" He would have to believe what present day Jews believe. He never was a present day Jew. In any case Judeism is more heritage based than belief based. Modern Jews consider themselves Jews if their mother was Jewish. The Bible clearly showes that in Jesus's day the father's heritage was atleast equally important. Modern Jewish thought and culture have changed a great deal since then. it is still Jewish thought and culture.
This argument is a bit like saying that George Washington was not an American, because he owned slaves and owning slaves is illegal in America.
"Fruitcake" is a bit strong but clearly logic is an unknown county to the poster.

koban
October 20th, 2005, 09:02 AM
We've been going through quite a bit of glue around here lately.

ItIsWritten
October 20th, 2005, 09:13 AM
Here is where it all started....http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23450
Rather then send us fishing, any chance you remember even one of the reasons they raised?

Granite
October 20th, 2005, 10:46 AM
As Koban suggested this is a question for fruitcakes. Who thinks Jesus was not a Jew ? What do they think He was if not a Jew? What kind of ax are they trying to grind?

I've said this before, but this entire discussion strikes me as a moot point.

BillyBob
October 20th, 2005, 11:21 AM
Rather then send us fishing, any chance you remember even one of the reasons they raised?

Fishing? Did you bother clicking the link, it's all right there in the first two pages of short posts?

Why rely on my recolection when you can read it for yourself? :confused:

Delmar
October 20th, 2005, 11:36 AM
Against the wish of the leaders of Judaism.
Jesus Christ was the leader of Judaism since it's beggining.

Delmar
October 20th, 2005, 11:37 AM
oops

Knight
October 20th, 2005, 11:54 AM
Deja Vu

Granite
October 20th, 2005, 11:58 AM
Didn't you just say that?