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Poly
June 2nd, 2005, 10:04 AM
Although being a homo is disgusting, I had to vote for using the bible(something he claims not to believe in) to correct Christians. He's just like his father the devil who accuses the brethren.

Revelation 12:10
10Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

Wamba
June 2nd, 2005, 10:05 AM
Although being a homo is disgusting, I had to vote for using the bible(something he claims not to believe in) to correct Christians. He's just like his father the devil who accuses the brethren.

Revelation 12:10
10Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

Yeah, I'm with you. It's disgusting when he attempts to use the Bible.

Poly
June 2nd, 2005, 10:06 AM
Yeah, I'm with you. It's disgusting when he attempts to use the Bible.

I think my post came up before I had a chance to create the poll. Vote away! :D

Wamba
June 2nd, 2005, 10:08 AM
Oh, well other than the fact that he's a homo, it's disgusting that he tries to use the Bible... This poll should be multiple choice! ;)

Nineveh
June 2nd, 2005, 10:09 AM
Since I can't pick more than one, I'll have to go with #3...

Nineveh
June 2nd, 2005, 10:10 AM
Oh, well other than the fact that he's a homo, it's disgusting that he tries to use the Bible... This poll should be multiple choice! ;)


:ha:

... what Wamba said :)

Crow
June 2nd, 2005, 10:10 AM
3, with 4 a close second.

Poly
June 2nd, 2005, 10:11 AM
Oh, well other than the fact that he's a homo, it's disgusting that he tries to use the Bible... This poll should be multiple choice! ;)

I know. They're all very disgusting. I realize it simply may not be possible for some to make a choice.

Jeremiah85
June 2nd, 2005, 10:16 AM
#4, but #3 is just as disgusting to me.

ShadowMaid
June 2nd, 2005, 10:18 AM
I couldn't decide between 3 and 4, so I just picked 3.

beanieboy
June 2nd, 2005, 10:21 AM
I was under the impression that the bible tells christians how to live.

When the bible says to bless those that curse you, that isn't me making it up.

Namaste

Crow
June 2nd, 2005, 10:23 AM
I was under the impression that the bible tells christians how to live.

And I am under the impression that the Holy Spirit is our counsellor and other Christians are our teachers in correctly interpreting the scriptures and judging rightly, not you.

Justin (Wiccan)
June 2nd, 2005, 10:24 AM
Well, then, I guess I'm also disgusting under numbers 3 and 4.

Justin, have you noticed that Christians tend to respond differently to you than they do to beanieboy? :think:

Justin (Wiccan)
June 2nd, 2005, 10:27 AM
Justin, have you noticed that Christians tend to respond differently to you than they do to beanieboy? :think:

Either someone's been practicing really hard on their ventrilloquism, or they hit the wrong button. ;)

Wamba
June 2nd, 2005, 10:30 AM
I voted for 1.

The order of disgustingness is, 1,3,4,2

beanieboy
June 2nd, 2005, 10:31 AM
And I am under the impression that the Holy Spirit is our counsellor and other Christians are our teachers in correctly interpreting the scriptures and judging rightly, not you.

That's a good point. Thank you for the edification.

I will try to refrain in the future, and simply obey the ways of Buddhism.

fool
June 2nd, 2005, 10:36 AM
I don't see what the problem is with non believers using the bible as a quote source.
I'd think believers would be happy to know that someone is at least familier with it.
plus I think the Bible was written by men
and its' content was borrowed mostly from other sources
followers of Jesus and Yaweh don't have a monopoly on truth

beanieboy
June 2nd, 2005, 10:37 AM
It's because it holds people in accountability to their imperfection.

As for me, I will simply try to live by example, and as already stated, let christians instruct their own.

Crow
June 2nd, 2005, 10:44 AM
Either someone's been practicing really hard on their ventrilloquism, or they hit the wrong button. ;)

I apologize, Justin, I did hit the wrong button. :o

allsmiles
June 2nd, 2005, 10:44 AM
And I am under the impression that the Holy Spirit is our counsellor and other Christians are our teachers in correctly interpreting the scriptures and judging rightly, not you.

So BB was wrong when he said "bless those that curse you"? The bible doesn't say that? Or it does, but stops being true when an unbeliever uses it?

beanieboy
June 2nd, 2005, 10:49 AM
Buddhism says that one should bless those who curse you, and no matter who says it, it remains a very valid point. That is why I am Buddhist.

docrob57
June 2nd, 2005, 10:49 AM
I voted for 1.

The order of disgustingness is, 1,3,4,2

4,3,1,2

Justin (Wiccan)
June 2nd, 2005, 10:49 AM
I apologize, Justin, I did hit the wrong button. :o

No apologies necessary, dearheart ... I'm a mod on another forum, so I know how easy it is to do that. ;) "The part of Justin will be played this week by a dark-plumed avian." :chuckle:


Justin, have you noticed that Christians tend to respond differently to you than they do to beanieboy?

OK ... so why is that?

docrob57
June 2nd, 2005, 10:51 AM
No apologies necessary, dearheart ... I'm a mod on another forum, so I know how easy it is to do that. ;) "The part of Justin will be played this week by a dark-plumed avian." :chuckle:



OK ... so why is that?

I would have to say that it is because we see more hope in you. But maybe this should be a new thread and poll.

SUTG
June 2nd, 2005, 10:52 AM
I voted "He uses the bible"


Although I have nothing against Beanieboy, I find the Bible disgusting.

MrsDearDelmar
June 2nd, 2005, 10:58 AM
Justin, it's all about attitude!

Justin (Wiccan)
June 2nd, 2005, 11:01 AM
Hmmm.....

So, it's not the fact that a non-Christian cites scripture, it's the attitude by which they do so?

MrsDearDelmar
June 2nd, 2005, 11:03 AM
And whether or not they twist it to their liking. I know Christians who do this too and it makes me angry.

allsmiles
June 2nd, 2005, 11:03 AM
I think Justin's fine the way he is.

Balder
June 2nd, 2005, 11:06 AM
This whole poll and the "righteous" gathering it has drawn reminds me of something Biblical...

Like "brood of vipers."

fool
June 2nd, 2005, 11:16 AM
This whole poll and the "righteous" gathering it has drawn reminds me of something Biblical...

Like "brood of vipers."
I was thinking Hyenas

Carver
June 2nd, 2005, 11:19 AM
I picked 4 because that's really the only problem I have with BB.

As far as his being homosexual, he's living in sin if he is practicing it, but as he's not a Christian, it's not too much my concern which particular sins he does, but rather my concern is getting him to Christ so that Christ can take those sins away.

I haven't seen any evidence yet of him being a hypocrite, so I couldn't vote for that.

And as for 3, the times I've been held the most accountable in my own life were when I had numerous non-Christians who knew the Bible fairly well critiquing (sp?) my every move. So, not only am I allright with non-Christians using the Bible, I encourage it. It has been very helpful to me.

beanieboy
June 2nd, 2005, 11:19 AM
Buddhists believe that you can overcome evil with good, anger with gentleness, cruelty with kindness.

I guess we shall see as it gets put to the test, to see if this is a truth.

On Fire
June 2nd, 2005, 11:27 AM
He uses the bible (something he claims not to believe in) to tell Christians how they should live.

That makes him a hypocrite.

On Fire
June 2nd, 2005, 11:28 AM
Buddhists believe that you can overcome evil with good, anger with gentleness, cruelty with kindness.

I guess we shall see as it gets put to the test, to see if this is a truth.
Who is doing the testing?

beanieboy
June 2nd, 2005, 11:29 AM
I picked 4 because that's really the only problem I have with BB.



The vote is still out on that.
I can't say that I definitely do or don't need Christ.
I grew up Christian. I asked Jesus into my heart numerous times during my youth.

I left for various reasons, but I saw more of what Christ spoke of in Buddhists.

I see the whole thing as a path.

I'm unsure of what I think about a God that needs a human sacrifice to make everything ok again, and since Jesus asked people to follow him, and not to accept his pending death/resurrection, was forgiving sins before he was crucified, etc.

People's view of God have changed over the years, so it makes sense that I would question if we really understand it yet, but have come to the conclusion that you don't arrive at the truth, but are constantly learning something more.

I don't believe that God's love is conditional, and God only loves Christians. Otherwise, why would he send his son for everyone, for people that he didn't love? If God can love us while we were yet sinners, God loves us now, on our journey to find him.

I believe that it is God who is always trying to get our attention, not us needing to do anything to get his.

So, I'm still examing, still seeking.

I suppose one can find me disgusting for not arriving there if they wish. Even Thomas asked to see Jesus hands and side, and he was there in the flesh with him, so I don't think examining it, and meditating on it, is really something that disgusts God, and that is all that matters, really.

Carver
June 2nd, 2005, 11:30 AM
It's not hypocrisy to say to someone, "hey, you say you believe x, start acting like it." I am not a Buddhist, but if I thought BB was being a bad Buddhist, and I told him so, I would not be engaging in hypocrisy.

Justin (Wiccan)
June 2nd, 2005, 11:30 AM
He uses the bible (something he claims not to believe in) to tell Christians how they should live.

That makes him a hypocrite.

But as I said, I do the same thing. Yet people do not seem to find me "disgusting." Why do you think that is?

beanieboy
June 2nd, 2005, 11:31 AM
Who is doing the testing?

I am. I am testing the theory, the Buddhist belief that gentleness wins over harshness, kindness to cruelty, etc.

I thought that I was being clear.

On Fire
June 2nd, 2005, 11:32 AM
It's not hypocrisy to say to someone, "hey, you say you believe x, start acting like it." I am not a Buddhist, but if I thought BB was being a bad Buddhist, and I told him so, I would not be engaging in hypocrisy.
Beanie doesn't have the Holy Spirit dwelling in him. He is incapable of using God's word to judge. When he does so, he is merely blowing smoke. He has apparently blinded you.

Knight
June 2nd, 2005, 11:33 AM
But as I said, I do the same thing. Yet people do not seem to find me "disgusting." Why do you think that is?Maybe because.... you don't profess to have sex with other men? :think:

On Fire
June 2nd, 2005, 11:34 AM
But as I said, I do the same thing. Yet people do not seem to find me "disgusting." Why do you think that is?
Good question. I'm sorry to say that I have a feeling your day will come.

beanieboy
June 2nd, 2005, 11:34 AM
It's not hypocrisy to say to someone, "hey, you say you believe x, start acting like it." I am not a Buddhist, but if I thought BB was being a bad Buddhist, and I told him so, I would not be engaging in hypocrisy.

And if I am, and am capable of it, I would encourage you to do so, because I want to be more enlightened. Teachers of Buddhism often question their followers.

A student was once meditating. A teacher asked him what he was doing, and the student said, "I'm meditating to become enlightened." The teacher picked up a tile and began polishing it. Curious, the student said, "what are you doing?" The teacher said, "I'm polishing a tile to make it into a mirror."

The student understood.

That's what one should do for another, but I am happy to allow christian to help other christians.

Justin (Wiccan)
June 2nd, 2005, 11:36 AM
On Fire, your comment may be relevant...I'll substitute my name.


[Justin (Wiccan)] doesn't have the Holy Spirit swelling in him. He is incapable of using God's word to judge.

Would you define for me what you mean by "incapable?"

beanieboy
June 2nd, 2005, 11:36 AM
Beanie doesn't have the Holy Spirit dwelling in him. He is incapable of using God's word to judge. When he does so, he is merely blowing smoke. He has apparently blinded you.

Would it be fair to say that since you are not a Buddhist, you have no authority to instruct me how to live?

fool
June 2nd, 2005, 11:40 AM
He uses the bible (something he claims not to believe in) to tell Christians how they should live.

That makes him a hypocrite.
that dosen't make him a hypocrite
it makes you a hypocrite if you say you believe and then do your own thing any way
how is he supposed to point that out to you other than in your own mythological framework?

On Fire
June 2nd, 2005, 11:42 AM
On Fire, your comment may be relevant...I'll substitute my name.

Would you define for me what you mean by "incapable?"

While you can certainly quote the words in the Bible, you cannot understand them completely. God's Holy Spirit gives the believer a deeper understanding. Also, you have no authority to go along with your use of the words.

Carver
June 2nd, 2005, 11:44 AM
On Fire: Beanie doesn't have the Holy Spirit dwelling in him. He is incapable of using God's word to judge. When he does so, he is merely blowing smoke. He has apparently blinded you.
I do wear glasses, but I'm not blind yet, thank you very much. Anyway, even the most hyper-Calvinist I've ever met still had to incorporate the doctrine of 'general grace.' That is to say, even atheists, or other 'disgusting,' as many of you like to style them, non-Christians can say things that are in line with Scripture and God's will. This is because (according to my hyper-Calvinist friend) God still can work through their rather puppet like existence to do His will, even though He intends to toss them in the fire a little bit later.

On Fire
June 2nd, 2005, 11:47 AM
I do wear glasses, but I'm not blind yet, thank you very much. Anyway, even the most hyper-Calvinist I've ever met still had to incorporate the doctrine of 'general grace.' That is to say, even atheists, or other 'disgusting,' as many of you like to style them, non-Christians can say things that are in line with Scripture and God's will. This is because (according to my hyper-Calvinist friend) God still can work through their rather puppet like existence to do His will, even though He intends to toss them in the fire a little bit later.
Beanie may as well be quoting Dr. Seuss or Buddha.

Carver
June 2nd, 2005, 11:49 AM
One fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish???

Justin (Wiccan)
June 2nd, 2005, 11:49 AM
While you can certainly quote the words in the Bible, you cannot understand them completely. God's Holy Spirit gives the believer a deeper understanding.

Now I know where this doctrine comes from ... but let me ask you this. Let us say that, as a non-Christian, I argue that Christians should not commit adultery, and use the appropriate scriptures to make my argument, is my argument somehow invalid, because I lack that "deeper understanding?"


Also, you have no authority to go along with your use of the words.

Authority. Hmmm.... On Fire, I'm just not sure that your Bible ever has anything to say about that. This assertion may be a man-made doctrine.

But lest we get too far into an argument, when I cite Scripture in a discussion with Christians, I do not claim any "authority." As Christians are to follow Scripture, I allow the Scriptures to stand on their own authority.

fool
June 2nd, 2005, 11:50 AM
While you can certainly quote the words in the Bible, you cannot understand them completely. God's Holy Spirit gives the believer a deeper understanding. Also, you have no authority to go along with your use of the words.
so your claiming personal revealation by God of the true meaning of the words?
what if the meaning revealed to another believer is not the same?
does that mean God is wrong?
or are you and the other believer just a couple of kooks argueing about what your imaginary freind told you?

allsmiles
June 2nd, 2005, 11:50 AM
Why does the bible not apply to christians if an unbeliever quotes it? Why do words capable of being taken at face value like, love your neighbor, lose their meaning if an unbeliever quotes them? I don't understand this at all.

taoist
June 2nd, 2005, 11:52 AM
... under numbers 3 ...

Yeah, I'd noticed that as well and wondered why it didn't draw the standard response. It's actually one of the few rules I set for myself on this site, never to use bible quotations against christians, though I'm quite liberal with them in discussions with Pastor Bob taoist-brudder. Mostly, I've resisted temptation, compromising by using uncited paraphrases when no suitable alternative seemed appropriate. What seems to me to be the actual dividing line is your alignment with the pro-life community. For that, here, you'll be forgiven a host of sins, IMHO.

***
fool,
that dosen't make him a hypocrite

taoist,
I can't check you on that one, fool. Necessarily, adherents of a religious faith, especially those who fall into any kind of literal interpretationist school, feel a sense of propietarian loyalty to their holy scripture. Their use of it amongst themselves is meant to illustrate from a common base pre-agreed as infallible. To use it to correct the actions of a fellow believer is justified in that worldview, but when it's perceived as being used as a cudgel by one who doesn't respect its provenance, it's twisting the underlying assumptions used amongst believers in debate. And as such, can be properly perceived as hypocrisy.

From another point of view, however, it's quite possible to pick the portions of their holy text one feels communicate spiritual truths, and use them in debate, as I do from time to time. But even there, it's uncomfortable for true believers who can't accept that their holy book can be seen as only partially relevant.

Granite
June 2nd, 2005, 11:53 AM
Why does the bible not apply to christians if an unbeliever quotes it? Why do words capable of being taken at face value like, love your neighbor, lose their meaning if an unbeliever quotes them? I don't understand this at all.

You have to be a member of the club to "properly" understand house rules.

fool
June 2nd, 2005, 11:56 AM
Why does the bible not apply to christians if an unbeliever quotes it? Why do words capable of being taken at face value like, love your neighbor, lose their meaning if an unbeliever quotes them? I don't understand this at all.
there is no understanding it cause it don't make sense

allsmiles
June 2nd, 2005, 11:58 AM
I understand the club aspect, but this idea of a "deeper understanding" is ludicrous to me. How can it possibly get any deeper? And what of interpretations of the meaning of books like the Revelation? Or Ezekiel? What good has this deeper understanding ever done christianity when all they have done is kill and fight each other for the past two thousand years?

I guess what I don't understand is how they've gotten away with this foolishness for so long when it's so obviously (from the outside looking in) BS.

On Fire
June 2nd, 2005, 12:02 PM
But lest we get too far into an argument, when I cite Scripture in a discussion with Christians, I do not claim any "authority." As Christians are to follow Scripture, I allow the Scriptures to stand on their own authority.
Which makes me wonder....why a Christian would debate scripture with you.

beanieboy
June 2nd, 2005, 12:03 PM
Which makes me wonder....why a Christian debate scripture with you.

Good point.
And why should a Christian use scripture against a non-believer?

On Fire
June 2nd, 2005, 12:04 PM
Good point.
And why should a Christian use scripture against a non-believer?
God and His word have authority over you.

beanieboy
June 2nd, 2005, 12:05 PM
God and His word have authority over you.

Not according to Buddhism.
You are aware that most Buddhists don't see the bible anything other than a book that Christians believe to be holy?
A non-believer won't believe in the bible, since they don't believe in Jesus/God/HS, so what is the point with quoting scripture to a nonbeliever?

You might as well quote Dr. Seuss.

fool
June 2nd, 2005, 12:07 PM
God and His word have authority over you.
sounds like it's somthing between him and God then
I don't see where On Fire fits in

Carver
June 2nd, 2005, 12:10 PM
God has authority over all, because He's God. But I'm having some trouble seeing how His word has authority over non-Christians. Maybe that's in Matthew chapter 32?

Justin (Wiccan)
June 2nd, 2005, 12:15 PM
Which makes me wonder....why a Christian would debate scripture with you.

Rather misses the point ... not to mention the question that I asked you: Let us say that, as a non-Christian, I argue that Christians should not commit adultery, and use the appropriate scriptures to make my argument, is my argument somehow invalid, because I lack that "deeper understanding?"

As this is not a Bible question, per se, you won't be debating scripture with me, so I'm confident you'll be able to answer easily.

Carver
June 2nd, 2005, 12:22 PM
It seems to me an easy-out to just flatly deny that non-Christians can ever make sense about Scripture. G.K. Chesterton once defined free speech as the idea "that truth is so much larger and stranger and more many-sided than we know of, that it is very much better at all costs to hear every one's account of it" It seems to me that free speech within a Biblical context can't be a bad thing. And while certain things will be said that are patently wrong and untrue, we might just be pleasantly surprised at some other things which might be said.

On Fire
June 2nd, 2005, 01:48 PM
Why does the bible not apply to christians if an unbeliever quotes it? Why do words capable of being taken at face value like, love your neighbor, lose their meaning if an unbeliever quotes them? I don't understand this at all.
The Bible applies to Christians always.

Beanie likes to misquote the Bible a lot and wants to believe only the parts that benefit him and his sinful deathstyle.

On Fire
June 2nd, 2005, 01:49 PM
Not according to Buddhism.
You are aware that most Buddhists don't see the bible anything other than a book that Christians believe to be holy?
A non-believer won't believe in the bible, since they don't believe in Jesus/God/HS, so what is the point with quoting scripture to a nonbeliever?

You might as well quote Dr. Seuss.
So why do you quote the Bible and demand to be treated accordingly?

On Fire
June 2nd, 2005, 01:50 PM
sounds like it's somthing between him and God then
I don't see where On Fire fits in
At the very point in time this thread was opened, fool.

On Fire
June 2nd, 2005, 01:52 PM
Rather misses the point ... not to mention the question that I asked you: Let us say that, as a non-Christian, I argue that Christians should not commit adultery, and use the appropriate scriptures to make my argument, is my argument somehow invalid, because I lack that "deeper understanding?"

As I said earlier, there's a big difference between making true statements and understanding God's word.

Justin (Wiccan)
June 2nd, 2005, 01:55 PM
As I said earlier, there's a big difference between making true statements and understanding God's word.

Hmmm. I must have missed that statement.

fool
June 2nd, 2005, 02:01 PM
so your claiming personal revealation by God of the true meaning of the words?
what if the meaning revealed to another believer is not the same?
does that mean God is wrong?
or are you and the other believer just a couple of kooks argueing about what your imaginary freind told you?

allsmiles
June 2nd, 2005, 02:04 PM
On Fire,

I think it's funny that your signature is a quote from a complete "pagan".

kmoney
June 2nd, 2005, 03:18 PM
What I think is disgusting is that "Chrsitians" are having this discussion.

fool
June 2nd, 2005, 03:35 PM
What I think is disgusting is that "Chrsitians" are having this discussion.
that statement is right on the kmoney

Justin (Wiccan)
June 2nd, 2005, 04:16 PM
Ouch! Get thee to a punnery, fool! :chuckle:

fool
June 2nd, 2005, 04:19 PM
Ouch! Get thee to a punnery, fool! :chuckle:
thanks

kmoney
June 2nd, 2005, 04:30 PM
that statement is right on the kmoney

nice one.... :)

Caille
June 2nd, 2005, 04:32 PM
I voted "He uses the bible"


Although I have nothing against Beanieboy, I find the Bible disgusting.




:darwinsm:


Just when I was about to pull the plug, I come across this. Thanks for the laughs guys.


play nice.

Chileice
June 2nd, 2005, 04:33 PM
I didn't vote because he doesn't disgust me. He intrigues me. I think he must have a screw loose to just come on here and be constantly derided and put up with it the way he does. Either he is a masochist or he is a paragon of the virtue of patience.

I think he is also a source of endless entertainment for the name-calling crowd. I mean, without Beanie, the number of threads was dropping off the charts. He must personally be responsible for the starting of at least 100 threads... 100 started by other people about him. Of course he has also added a large number... many of which became bash-beanie threads. So all in all I am intrigued. I don't know how he can seem to love the Bible so much without actually wanting to be a Christian. But it doesn't disgust me. I wonder why people find quoting the Bible disgusting? Maybe Beanie is closer to the kingdom than many give him credit for. Only the Spirit knows for sure.

temple2006
June 2nd, 2005, 09:32 PM
I find this kind of thread and poll to be disgusting.

fool
June 2nd, 2005, 10:00 PM
I didn't vote because he doesn't disgust me. He intrigues me. I think he must have a screw loose to just come on here and be constantly derided and put up with it the way he does. Either he is a masochist or he is a paragon of the virtue of patience.

I think he is also a source of endless entertainment for the name-calling crowd. I mean, without Beanie, the number of threads was dropping off the charts. He must personally be responsible for the starting of at least 100 threads... 100 started by other people about him. Of course he has also added a large number... many of which became bash-beanie threads. So all in all I am intrigued. I don't know how he can seem to love the Bible so much without actually wanting to be a Christian. But it doesn't disgust me. I wonder why people find quoting the Bible disgusting? Maybe Beanie is closer to the kingdom than many give him credit for. Only the Spirit knows for sure.
:BRAVO:

kmoney
June 2nd, 2005, 10:11 PM
I didn't vote because he doesn't disgust me. He intrigues me. I think he must have a screw loose to just come on here and be constantly derided and put up with it the way he does. Either he is a masochist or he is a paragon of the virtue of patience.

I think he is also a source of endless entertainment for the name-calling crowd. I mean, without Beanie, the number of threads was dropping off the charts. He must personally be responsible for the starting of at least 100 threads... 100 started by other people about him. Of course he has also added a large number... many of which became bash-beanie threads. So all in all I am intrigued. I don't know how he can seem to love the Bible so much without actually wanting to be a Christian. But it doesn't disgust me. I wonder why people find quoting the Bible disgusting? Maybe Beanie is closer to the kingdom than many give him credit for. Only the Spirit knows for sure.

Well said....

jeremiah
June 2nd, 2005, 10:42 PM
Why does the bible not apply to christians if an unbeliever quotes it? Why do words capable of being taken at face value like, love your neighbor, lose their meaning if an unbeliever quotes them? I don't understand this at all.

.........it is not simply because an unbeliever is quoting it, it is, if, and when, he misapplies it. It is because it is dreadfully obvious that he does not understand the simplest matters of the teaching and instructions of God. How therefore can he advise anyone on the weightier matters concerning, justice, and mercy, and love!
Love your neighbor, was misunderstood, by most, that is why Jesus had to give us the parable of the good Samaritin.
Neither the good Samaritin, nor the priests and Levites, nor the scribes and pharisees, misunderstood that homosexuality was wrong and forbidden by God.
Why would you take advice from a golfer who is 20 strokes worse than you. Why would you listen to him? Wouldn't you rather take advice from someone 20 strokes better than you?
Saying that you should love your neighbor, to a Christian, when you yourself are involving your neighbor in sin, is a far cry from the story of the Good Samaritin. Is it not?
Jesus said that Love God..... and love your neighbor, encompass the whole law, or teaching of God. Homosexuality is clearly outside that compass. He can't "preach" to us concerning Love, Can He?
Let me know if this makes any sense to you!

The Edge
June 2nd, 2005, 11:04 PM
Is this thread really productive or necessary? It does nothing for the edification of others.

firechyld
June 3rd, 2005, 12:29 AM
Nothing disgusts me about Beanie. I'm quite fond of him.

Justin (Wiccan)
June 3rd, 2005, 12:33 AM
I didn't vote because he doesn't disgust me. He intrigues me. I think he must have a screw loose to just come on here and be constantly derided and put up with it the way he does. Either he is a masochist or he is a paragon of the virtue of patience.

I think he is also a source of endless entertainment for the name-calling crowd. I mean, without Beanie, the number of threads was dropping off the charts. He must personally be responsible for the starting of at least 100 threads... 100 started by other people about him. Of course he has also added a large number... many of which became bash-beanie threads. So all in all I am intrigued. I don't know how he can seem to love the Bible so much without actually wanting to be a Christian. But it doesn't disgust me. I wonder why people find quoting the Bible disgusting? Maybe Beanie is closer to the kingdom than many give him credit for. Only the Spirit knows for sure.

Well said, Chileice. I've repped you to recently, so I couldn't do so for this ... but please consider yourself plus-repped.

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 07:23 AM
I didn't vote because he doesn't disgust me. He intrigues me. I think he must have a screw loose to just come on here and be constantly derided and put up with it the way he does. Either he is a masochist or he is a paragon of the virtue of patience.

I think he is also a source of endless entertainment for the name-calling crowd. I mean, without Beanie, the number of threads was dropping off the charts. He must personally be responsible for the starting of at least 100 threads... 100 started by other people about him. Of course he has also added a large number... many of which became bash-beanie threads. So all in all I am intrigued. I don't know how he can seem to love the Bible so much without actually wanting to be a Christian. But it doesn't disgust me. I wonder why people find quoting the Bible disgusting? Maybe Beanie is closer to the kingdom than many give him credit for. Only the Spirit knows for sure.

I think polls like this simply show people's true colors.
And our worst enemy is actually the one that makes us work out our patience, our kindness, our gentleness, who force us to love those who hate us, to return curse with blessing.
TOL has a number of odd ducks, ones who start threads about me. Never have I thought I would be such a target or thorn in the side of others. But I spend quite a bit of time going to biblegateway.com, and examining the bible. I have already been raised on it, so for the most part, I can defend myself when someone is obviously abusing it. I know verses, like, "Neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord," so people telling me that God hates me is simply Henny Penny telling me the sky is falling. I know in my heart that it isn't true, and being gay, I have seen a number of gays and lesbians told that, and

I was reading How to Quit Religion without Quitting God. The author makes a number of points that modern christianity can't defend. But one of the coolest things he said was, that Jesus' death on the cross conquered death, for all people. That is the Good News. There is no activation to salvation. It already is. He then said that churches look like upside down funnels, and we are all taught that we have to stand, kneel, sit, stand, kneel, sit, and do all of these things to get God's attention. But the truth is, that the funnel is upside down. God loves us now, and is trying to get our attention. And as I realized this, in my mind's eye, hundreds of presents began to float down from the sky. And I was filled with so much happiness. It was like the Creator and I both said, 'Eureka!!" Understanding God is a process, and I am still continueing to learn what the Creator has for me.

Anyway, I think that there are those on TOL that still need healing, still need instruction, and trying to live up to not telling christians how to live, I am going to resign to this mantra:

Don't show the path, be the map.

The Edge
June 3rd, 2005, 07:34 AM
I mean, seriously everyone, is it Christlike to start an entire thread solely to discuss everything you hate about someone and vote on it? If Jesus came back today, you should be ashamed of yourselves because I highly doubt He'd approve. That, is truely disgusting. Poly, you're more mature than to create a thread like this. You're a moderator of a Christian board. Be an example!

I'm disgusted this thread exists. It's an example of pure hatred that should not exist in a Christian community. You're off my buddy list. It's this kind of behavior that drives people away from Christ, not draws them toward him.

I went to another board. They have TOL refugees there and the mod said "They're too mean." She was right. Our reputation is out there and it's not so good.

I'm not trying to accuse here, but make us think; are we harvesting the fields or planting weeds?

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 07:44 AM
Nothing disgusts me about Beanie. I'm quite fond of him.

Aw, shucks. I'm speechless.

Where have you been hiding, Firechild??
Great to see you again.

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 07:46 AM
I wonder why people find quoting the Bible disgusting?

Satan can quote the Scriptures, that doesn't make him anything but satan.


Maybe Beanie is closer to the kingdom than many give him credit for. Only the Spirit knows for sure.

I wonder if I should quote Romans 1 yet once again to find out if you are right about beanie, Chileice. Well, perhaps this one part of the quote anyway...

"they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them"

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 07:50 AM
Anyway, I think that there are those on TOL that still need healing, still need instruction, and trying to live up to not telling christians how to live, I am going to resign to this mantra:

Don't show the path, be the map.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 08:01 AM
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

I certainly don't mean to be an example of how to reach God. I am no Jesus. But I can live by example of how I think one should behave - slow to anger, gentleness, kindness, blessing those who curse you. It is silly for me to say I am Buddhist, then go against Buddhist principles, and condemn others. The map of which I speak is congruent with what Paul suggests, and Jesus suggests in treating one another, and is what Buddhists believe. I make no promise of heaven, but simply live in such a manner as to allow my inner light to shine as best it can, to bring peace to a volatile world that we can learn to edify one another.

Poly
June 3rd, 2005, 08:09 AM
I mean, seriously everyone, is it Christlike to start an entire thread solely to discuss everything you hate about someone and vote on it?

When you are as pathetic as beanieboy, yes.
It's not everybody that gets a poll created on what's the most disgusting thing about them. But he really takes the cake on what it means to be pure scum in so many areas.


If Jesus came back today, you should be ashamed of yourselves because I highly doubt He'd approve.
I know, I've been thinking about this. He'd probably wonder why I didn't add "He's a big whiner" to the poll.


That, is truely disgusting. Poly, you're more mature than to create a thread like this. You're a moderator of a Christian board. Be an example!
Oh shut up, you sorry wimp! What are you my mother? Quit talking down to me as if you're somebody who is in a position to do so. You don't know the first thing about Christian maturity. :loser:


I'm disgusted this thread exists.
Oh big surprise there!


You're off my buddy list.

Do you really think that highly of yourself that you must make a big announcement to somebody that you're taking them off your list as if this is really going to have some kind of impact on them? I think you need to come down off your high horse. I'm embarrassed I was ever on your list.


I went to another board. They have TOL refugees there and the mod said "They're too mean." She was right. Our reputation is out there and it's not so good.
You want to slam me, fine. But you've already been told yesterday by Turbo to quit whining about how this board is run. I'm giving you one last warning to quit complaining about TOL. We've not put up with this in the past from other members and we certainly won't put up with it from you.

We know our reputation is not so good at "other" sites. If "other" sites don't approve then we know we must be doing something right. And here's the most important part so listen closely....We couldn't give a rat's backside what certain "other" sites think anyway.

I'm not trying to accuse here

You are such a liar. How many times does this make now where you do something so obvious like acuse somebody else of something and then say that you're not doing it? I think you might have broken some kind of record around here. It must really suck to be you.

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 08:14 AM
I certainly don't mean to be an example of how to reach God.

And that's why when you quote the Bible, it makes at least 10 people ill. The Bible does tell us what we need to know to have a relationship with God, it wasn't written for pagans to find comfort in their sins, but to warn them.


I am no Jesus.

Nor do you know Him.


But I can live by example of how I think one should behave - slow to anger, gentleness, kindness, blessing those who curse you.

Well, I'm sorry to tell you this, but the example I have seen you set goes more along the lines of using the Bible to justify your perversion.


It is silly for me to say I am Buddhist, then go against Buddhist principles, and condemn others. The map of which I speak is congruent with what Paul suggests, and Jesus suggests in treating one another, and is what Buddhists believe.

Did you miss what Christ said? He said He is The Way. There is no room for your "path" in that statement.


I make no promise of heaven, but simply live in such a manner as to allow my inner light to shine as best it can, to bring peace to a volatile world that we can learn to edify one another.

Jesus does offer us Heaven.

But, let's see what the Bible says about your "light":

In him (Christ) was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

Turbo
June 3rd, 2005, 08:19 AM
I'm not trying to accuse here...Baloney alert! :Patrol:

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 08:25 AM
Say what you will.

I'm am not seeking Nineveh. I am seeking God. I am seeking enlightenment.
Much of your words and actions question whether you read your own text.
I rarely see the fruits of the spirit in you - just anger, lashing out. Condemnation.
Read Poly's response to Edge. Holy cats!

Doesn't sound like the joy of the Lord, nor the peace that passes all understanding.
It's just crabby, snide, arrogant. That is her choice.
I have no intention of taking up that practice.

Jesus warned his disciples about those who claimed to preach the way of God, but were wolves in sheeps clothing.

So, claim that I don't know God, never knew Jesus, don't know anything about the bible.
It's your opinion, and one that I hold with no value. I see no light of Christ in you.

Namaste

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 08:35 AM
Say what you will.

I'm am not seeking Nineveh. I am seeking God. I am seeking enlightenment.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."



Much of your words and actions question whether you read your own text.
I rarely see the fruits of the spirit in you - just anger, lashing out. Condemnation.
Read Poly's response to Edge. Holy cats!

Much like your accusing so many (un named) here of calling you a "faggot" to gain sympathy, this accusation is going to be tossed into the "beanie is over generalizing again" bin.


Doesn't sound like the joy of the Lord, nor the peace that passes all understanding.
It's just crabby, snide, arrogant. That is her choice.
I have no intention of taking up that practice.

No, I can see where your "seeking-misunderstanding-victimhood" is much more useful on your "path to enlightenemnt". After all, anything could be true, except that beanie really is a slave to his sin and needs Christ.


Jesus warned his disciples about those who claimed to preach the way of God, but were wolves in sheeps clothing.

And Poly points to who? Christ. And what did Christ say?

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."


So, claim that I don't know God, never knew Jesus, don't know anything about the bible.
It's your opinion, and one that I hold with no value. I see no light of Christ in you.

You can rail against what God says about you beanie, but that isn't going to change the Bible any.

Turbo
June 3rd, 2005, 08:35 AM
I am seeking God. No you're not. Just yesterday you admitted that you are not interested in finding Christ.

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 08:39 AM
No you're not. Just yesterday you admitted that you are not interested in finding Christ.

I said that the jury is out on that one.
I'm not sure what to make of Christ.
I can tell you that I have a relationship with the Creator, and it's stronger than when I was Christian. You can judge that for what it is, but it won't change it.

If the bible says that 'by your fruit you will know them", but their fruit is bitterness, arrogance, anger, snide words, etc., should I really be listening to them?

The bible warns of false teachers who claim to lead people to God.
I am following that advice.

Matthew 7:

15"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

16"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?

17"So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.

18"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.

19"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

20"So then, you will know them by their fruits.

21"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

I am choosing to take this warning against false prophets.
Nothing more.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 08:44 AM
This whole thread is disgusting. Dont you people have anyting better to do with your time then attack people whom you have never met? You should all be ashamed of your selves. You attack people who have done nothing to you other then exist and have a different world view as your selves. You all sicken me. Your intollorence, your bigotry, your hate. All of you make me sick to my very stomach. I am ashamed that at one time in my life I call my self a christian. Jesus weeps that you twist his words the way you do. You dont adhear to the words of your saviour. You take what you want and twist it to your own sick depraved minds.

The problem you have with beanieboy is that he understands the words of Jesus better then you do your selves, and when he gets you on a point it makes sick that a nonbeliever got you with your own words.

I would say that I pitty you all, but, I dont. The sad part about this post is that I will also come under unwarented attack, and all of you will be offened that I had the nerve to come to the aid of some one else.

Say your worst. I welcome it.

Granite
June 3rd, 2005, 08:45 AM
Careful what you wish for.

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 08:53 AM
This whole thread is disgusting. Dont you people have anyting better to do with your time then attack people whom you have never met?

Leading by example? Or just being a hypocrite?


You should all be ashamed of your selves.

I wonder if you are?


You attack people who have done nothing to you other then exist and have a different world view as your selves. You all sicken me. Your intollorence, your bigotry, your hate. All of you make me sick to my very stomach. I am ashamed that at one time in my life I call my self a christian. Jesus weeps that you twist his words the way you do. You dont adhear to the words of your saviour. You take what you want and twist it to your own sick depraved minds.

Wow, that was really judgemental of you.


The problem you have with beanieboy is that he understands the words of Jesus better then you do your selves, and when he gets you on a point it makes sick that a nonbeliever got you with your own words.

The Words of God say we need Christ. He doesn't misunderstand it, he just loves his sin more than God.


I would say that I pitty you all, but, I dont. The sad part about this post is that I will also come under unwarented attack, and all of you will be offened that I had the nerve to come to the aid of some one else.

Say your worst. I welcome it.

Unwarranted? You are being a complete hypocrite.

Attack? Is this how you view all replies you know won't agree with you?

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 08:55 AM
And the buddhist relies on the Words of a foreign God once again! Yep #3.

Thanks for justifying those 10 votes bean :)

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 08:58 AM
The fave on TOL is to talk about how Jesus offended, but he most offended the pharisees, the people seen as authorities on the OT, the instructors of the temple.

So, is it any wonder that when one quotes the bible that shows the speck in one's eye, they get offended? Is it any wonder that someone would actually encourage a non-believer to not quote the bible, even though it requires going to the bible to read it?

Is it really a wonder that people are offended by their own text?

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 08:59 AM
Leading by example? Or just being a hypocrite?

This part doesnt make much sense, what are you talking about, lets get back on what ever page we started on, and go from there.

I wonder if you are?

I have no reason to be sick with my self, the burden has been, and always will be on you, the christians to abide by christs teachings of loving your neighbor and all that.

Wow, that was really judgemental of you.

What part, me saying that your bigots? O'h, I'm sorry, did I miss something from the way this thread was going?

The Words of God say we need Christ. He doesn't misunderstand it, he just loves his sin more than God.

See, thats where your wrong. At least he is trying to better himself through what he believes instead of hiding behind it and using it for his own sick perposes.

Unwarranted? You are being a complete hypocrite.


Attack? Is this how you view all replies you know won't agree with you?


This part doesnt make much sense, what are you talking about, lets get back on what ever page we started on, and go from there.

I have no reason to be sick with my self, the burden has been, and always will be on you, the christians to abide by christs teachings of loving your neighbor and all that.

What part, me saying that your bigots? O'h, I'm sorry, did I miss something from the way this thread was going?

See, thats where your wrong. At least he is trying to better himself through what he believes instead of hiding behind it and using it for his own sick perposes.

How am I being a hypocrite? Explain

Is this how you treat every one who doesnt agree with you?

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 08:59 AM
The fave on TOL is to talk about how Jesus offended, but he most offended the pharisees, the people seen as authorities on the OT, the instructors of the temple.

So, is it any wonder that when one quotes the bible that shows the speck in one's eye, they get offended? Is it any wonder that someone would actually encourage a non-believer to not quote the bible, even though it requires going to the bible to read it? Is it really surprising that a poster was once offended that I blessed them when cursed at, by saying, May your God bless you, saying how dare I say such a thing, and that my prayers were unheard (meaning that God didn't bless him?)

Is it really a wonder that people are offended by their own text?

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 09:01 AM
And the buddhist relies on the Words of a foreign God once again! Yep #3.

Thanks for justifying those 10 votes bean :)


Are you saying that I shouldn't beware of false teachers?

Poly
June 3rd, 2005, 09:01 AM
Leading by example? Or just being a hypocrite?

I wonder if you are?

Wow, that was really judgemental of you.


Nineveh, you should have "Hypocrite smacker" as your user title.

Why does The Searcher "attack people who have done nothing to him other then exist and have a different world view as himself"?

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 09:02 AM
So, is it any wonder that when one quotes the bible that shows the speck in one's eye, they get offended?

No, only when the LOG is over looked in favor of going for someone ele's speck. Christ says don't do that, it's be a hypocrite. As in, "You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."


Is it really a wonder that people are offended by their own text?

I'm not offended by God's Word, bean, it's you trying to use it to justify your perversion that's offensive.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 09:02 AM
Sorry, kind of messed up my post, thats what happens when you pull an all nighter and go to work.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 09:03 AM
Nineveh, you should have "Hypocrite smacker" as your user title.

Why does The Searcher "attack people who have done nothing to him other then exist and have a different world view as himself"?


Sorry, but, just going with the whole "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" thats in your bible.

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 09:03 AM
Nineveh, you should have "Hypocrite smacker" as your user title.

:chuckle:


Why does The Searcher "attack people who have done nothing to him other then exist and have a different world view as himself"?

He wants an "unwarrented attack"?

Turbo
June 3rd, 2005, 09:05 AM
Are you saying that I shouldn't beware of false teachers?
According to you, Jesus IS a false teacher, right? I mean, the guy claimed to be God, and you don't believe him, do you? So why do claim to beware of false teachers based on this supposedly false teacher's advice?

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 09:05 AM
No, only when the LOG is over looked in favor of going for someone ele's speck. Christ says don't do that, it's be a hypocrite. As in, "You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

I'm not offended by God's Word, bean, it's you trying to use it to justify your perversion that's offensive.

I have done nothing but quote the bible.
And now, I am only quoting that the bible tells me to beware of false prophets, ones who don't show the fruit of the spirit. You don't.

So, do I listen to you, a fruitless false prophet, and disobey Christ's words?

Poly
June 3rd, 2005, 09:05 AM
Sorry, but, just going with the whole "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" thats in your bible.

So it's ok for you to attack others whom you don't know who simply have other points of view than yourself but not for anybody else. :doh:

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 09:08 AM
Are you saying that I shouldn't beware of false teachers?

You are a false teacher, bean. You use God's words to justify yourself instead of listening to them and what He is trying to say to you.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 09:09 AM
So it's ok for you to attack others whom you don't know who simply have other points of view than yourself but not for anybody else. :doh:


Thats not it at all. You attacked some one I happen to agree with most of the time. I defended him.

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 09:10 AM
According to you, Jesus IS a false teacher, right? I mean, the guy claimed to be God, and you don't believe him, do you? So why do claim to beware of false teachers based on this supposedly false teacher's advice?

Are you actually reading me posts?

I said that the jury was out on that.
I'm unsure what I think about Christ.

The bible says, seek, and you will find.
I'm seeking.

But Christ warned against false prophets that show no fruit of the spirit.
Checklist:
22But (C)the fruit of the Spirit is
love joy; peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

Now, whine all you want that I am twisting scripture, but this is what it says. They don't show it, so Christ instructs to beware of them.

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 09:10 AM
You are a false teacher, bean. You use God's words to justify yourself instead of listening to them and what He is trying to say to you.

Blind guide.

Poly
June 3rd, 2005, 09:15 AM
Thats not it at all. You attacked some one I happen to agree with most of the time. I defended him.

Are you so blinded that you don't even realize what it really means to be hypocritical? You can't go around claiming that others are wrong for attacking somebody they've never met and just because they have different points of view while you yourself are doing the very thing you're preaching against as you did here.


This whole thread is disgusting. Dont you people have anyting better to do with your time then attack people whom you have never met? You should all be ashamed of your selves. You attack people who have done nothing to you other then exist and have a different world view as your selves. You all sicken me. Your intollorence, your bigotry, your hate. All of you make me sick to my very stomach. I am ashamed that at one time in my life I call my self a christian. Jesus weeps that you twist his words the way you do. You dont adhear to the words of your saviour. You take what you want and twist it to your own sick depraved minds.

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 09:15 AM
I have done nothing but quote the bible.

To justify your perversion. That is the log you keep trying to look through while attempting to pick tiny little specks out of other's eyes. According to Christ, that makes you a hypocrite.


And now, I am only quoting that the bible tells me to beware of false prophets, ones who don't show the fruit of the spirit. You don't.

And how would you know? The spirit you worship and the One I worship are two totally different intities. How can I tell? Mine would have you live a full life dedicated to Him, while yours doesn't really care what you do, including contracting diseases and dying a slow death.


So, do I listen to you, a fruitless false prophet, and disobey Christ's words?

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Is it me or God I have asked you to listen to repeatedly?

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 09:17 AM
Blind guide.

And that makes an unrepentant homosexual idolitor what?

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 09:18 AM
Let me understand this:
The Searcher says that you shouldn't attack someone that you barely know.
I could explain what the bible says about making surface judgements, but I'll let it slide.

You, Poly, attack Searcher for judging you, saying that Searcher doesn't know you, but Searcher is judging your attack, you actions.

Searcher was making a judgement, which you approve of, but when you are judged, you whine.

Isn't that hypocracy, the thing that you are criticizing?

I have never seen you accept someone judging your behavior.

Karma, baby.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 09:18 AM
The problem I have is the justification of this thread. The way all of you make it okay to attack bean. The way you are able to say, well, he's a sinner, it doesnt matter, he's going to hell and I'm not. Thats what bothers me, and dont instult my intelligence by saying that it bothers you. Most of you revel in the fact that you believe that people like my self and bean would burn in hell for eternity.

On Fire
June 3rd, 2005, 09:19 AM
I said that the jury is out on that one.
I'm not sure what to make of Christ.
I can tell you that I have a relationship with the Creator, and it's stronger than when I was Christian.

That feeling you have is you resting comfortably in your sin and ignoring the calling of Christ.

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 09:20 AM
And how would you know? The spirit you worship and the One I worship are two totally different intities. How can I tell? Mine would have you live a full life dedicated to Him, while yours doesn't really care what you do, including contracting diseases and dying a slow death.


The bible lists the fruits.
You display none.

It's fairly simple.

Namaste

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 09:26 AM
That feeling you have is you resting comfortably in your sin and ignoring the calling of Christ.

And you rest comfortably in threads like this?

You have done this to Christ.
You can justify that you did it because you care, because you love me, whatever.
It's the lie of a child.

Whenever you have done this to the least of these, you have done so unto me.

Rest comfortably in your sin.

Delmar
June 3rd, 2005, 09:26 AM
i am not that bothered by the hypocracy of non Christians, but it is fair to point it out.

On Fire
June 3rd, 2005, 09:27 AM
The bible lists the fruits.
You display none.

The Bible describes darkness. You are it.

"In him (Christ) was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it."

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 09:28 AM
This part doesnt make much sense, what are you talking about, lets get back on what ever page we started on, and go from there.

I have no reason to be sick with my self, the burden has been, and always will be on you, the christians to abide by christs teachings of loving your neighbor and all that.

Loving God first is the part most pagans like to miss. One can not love their neighbor by supporting their distructive "lifestyle". That's where you and I part company.


What part, me saying that your bigots? O'h, I'm sorry, did I miss something from the way this thread was going?

It makes me a bigot to want to see bean get out of homosexuality before it kills him? Or away from idols before their support of his deathstyle takes it's toll? To accept Christ instead of relying on his own self righteousness? Ok, label me a bigot then.


See, thats where your wrong. At least he is trying to better himself through what he believes instead of hiding behind it and using it for his own sick perposes.

And you are more than happy to help him "build a better homo". But in this we disagree, he uses the Words of God not to call people to Christ, but to misuse them to justify his own perversion.


How am I being a hypocrite? Explain

You judged people for judging. You were doing exactly what you were telling others not to do. So either this is a case of being a hypocrite or it's a "do as I say, not as I do" type thing.


Is this how you treat every one who doesnt agree with you?

How? By replying to them? Yes, most generally.

On Fire
June 3rd, 2005, 09:28 AM
And you rest comfortably in threads like this?

You have done this to Christ.
You can justify that you did it because you care, because you love me, whatever.
It's the lie of a child.

Whenever you have done this to the least of these, you have done so unto me.

Rest comfortably in your sin.
And when, may I ask, did you achieve perfection?

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 09:29 AM
Well, you can view my fruit, and call it darkness if you need to.
It doesn't change what is.

Namaste

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 09:30 AM
The bible lists the fruits.
You display none.

It's fairly simple.


And this from the unrepentant homosexual idolitor in rebellion to the very God who lists those fruits. Hmmm who should I trust? My God or the unrepentant homosexual idolitor....

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 09:33 AM
Do you show fruits of the Spirit?
Demonstrate how you show gentleness, joy, patience, kindness, etc.

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 09:36 AM
Well, you can view my fruit, and call it darkness if you need to.
It doesn't change what is.

No it doesn't, that's why you need to follow through with that thought and see that what you want to call "good fruit" is nothing more than wordly love comforting you in your sin, while Godly Love, and the fruits thereof will look mean and cruel to you because they call you out of the darkness you love so much.

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 09:37 AM
You are trying to validate your darkness, and I'm not buying.

Please demonstrate how you show the fruits of the spirit.
Please provide examples in your life, postings, etc.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 09:38 AM
Loving God first is the part most pagans like to miss. One can not love their neighbor by supporting their distructive "lifestyle". That's where you and I part company.



It makes me a bigot to want to see bean get out of homosexuality before it kills him? Or away from idols before their support of his deathstyle takes it's toll? To accept Christ instead of relying on his own self righteousness? Ok, label me a bigot then.



And you are more than happy to help him "build a better homo". But in this we disagree, he uses the Words of God not to call people to Christ, but to misuse them to justify his own perversion.



You judged people for judging. You were doing exactly what you were telling others not to do. So either this is a case of being a hypocrite or it's a "do as I say, not as I do" type thing.



How? By replying to them? Yes, most generally.


1# I dont see where your coming from. You think that because I dont worship your god I have no god. Thats not true. I have a god, he is very different then yours, he has my devotion. So, your wrong there. And Jesus took in all even in their perversions. You rather to cast out those who you dont like.

2#You dont want to convert him, you want to beat on him until he crys uncle and gives in. That is wrong.

3# I dont quite follow you on build a better homo, but it seems to me that christians are the only ones who really want to know about every one elses sex life. I just dont care, what happens in that area of your life is no ones business.

4# And as far as this goes, on this one, I'm following your example. The problem is, even if I had posted in a calm and ration tone, this is the response I would have gotten.

5# I ment with the anger and hate the comsumes all of you.

Granite
June 3rd, 2005, 09:40 AM
Do you show fruits of the Spirit?
Demonstrate how you show gentleness, joy, patience, kindness, etc.

In person, maybe...

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 09:41 AM
Do you show fruits of the Spirit?
Demonstrate how you show gentleness, joy, patience, kindness, etc.


How about you explain how comfort for your rebellion is Godly? How loving your sin more than God is Righteous? How an idolitor can even lay claim to the fruits of the Spirit of God who demands we honor Him?

You want to go off on a tangent about the fruits of the Spirit when in reality you don't have the Spirit or the natural outpouring (fruits) of that Spirit in your life. Stop using your neighbor for your own selfish desires, Love God First, with your whole being. Stop using the Word of God to justify your perversion, and realize your self righteousness doesn't get you into the presence of a God who abhores evil and rebellion.

cattyfan
June 3rd, 2005, 09:43 AM
I said that the jury is out on that one.
I'm not sure what to make of Christ.
I can tell you that I have a relationship with the Creator, and it's stronger than when I was Christian. You can judge that for what it is, but it won't change it.

If the bible says that 'by your fruit you will know them", but their fruit is bitterness, arrogance, anger, snide words, etc., should I really be listening to them?

The bible warns of false teachers who claim to lead people to God.
I am following that advice.

Matthew 7:

15"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

16"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?

17"So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.

18"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.

19"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

20"So then, you will know them by their fruits.

21"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

I am choosing to take this warning against false prophets.
Nothing more.



This is a quintessential example of what about beanieboy incites ire.

He wants to quote from the Book he doesn't believe in...but he only quotes the sections which are convenient for him. He opts to ignore any of the sections regarding his sin of choice and anything pertaining to rejecting that sin and repenting.

beanie....no one takes your posts regarding the Bible seriously.

Christians are not perfect...but we at least attempt to live by Christ's Words...all of them. Not just the parts we choose.

If you want to take the Bible as a whole, great. We look forward to your acceptance of Jesus and the rejection of the sin in which you currently wallow.

Until then, for you to pretend you believe the parts you want to use as a weapon is disingenuous and the height of hypocrisy.

And if, as you claim, you still have questions ("the jury's still out") on Jesus, there is still an entire forum specifically dedicated to attempting to enlighten you on the parts of God's expectations you claim remain murky.

Still praying for you....

:cattyfan:

Balder
June 3rd, 2005, 09:43 AM
To all of you here who have voiced your "disgust" and hatred for Beanieboy, and who have insulted him in different ways:

Are you completely sure that you are behaving as God would want you to behave? Do you feel completely justified in how you are treating him and "witnessing" to him? Do you have any doubt about whether God would support your approach? Are you confident that you have not made any mistakes in judgment, or stepped over the line of what the Bible tells you God would want?

In other words, do you feel that the ways you have treated Beanieboy would pass the test of righteousness to which you believe all should be subject?

I'm interested in something else, too. Do any of you see anything in Beanieboy that you would commend or which you respect?

docrob57
June 3rd, 2005, 09:47 AM
Ouch! Get thee to a punnery, fool! :chuckle:

I was wondering why you were calling someone a fool, since it ususally isn't your style. Then I saw that you were talking to Fool. :doh:

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 09:50 AM
1# I dont see where your coming from. You think that because I dont worship your god I have no god. Thats not true. I have a god, he is very different then yours, he has my devotion. So, your wrong there. And Jesus took in all even in their perversions. You rather to cast out those who you dont like.

I thought I used the term pagan.

God is going to cast folks into the lake of fire, not me.


2#You dont want to convert him, you want to beat on him until he crys uncle and gives in. That is wrong.

Your judgement is in error. Either that or you don't read my replies to bean very closely.


3# I dont quite follow you on build a better homo, but it seems to me that christians are the only ones who really want to know about every one elses sex life. I just dont care, what happens in that area of your life is no ones business.

I wonder how we all found out bean is a homo? Called Ms Cleo? Hardly, he's proud of his perversion. He doesn't keep it a secret.


4# And as far as this goes, on this one, I'm following your example. The problem is, even if I had posted in a calm and ration tone, this is the response I would have gotten.

Ok, firstly, you just admitted your post wasn't calm or rational. So you aren't following anyone's lead here on this thread as far as I have seen. And secondly, yes, I would have replied to your hypocrisy even if you had been calm and rational while being a hypocrite. If you don't think folks should be judgemental, then perhaps you should lead by example and stop being judgemental, then you won't be a hypocrite. Or the other option is to quit judging others for being judgemental.


5# I ment with the anger and hate the comsumes all of you.

Would you please cut and paste where you feel I have been angry or hateful to you?

Maybe your expectation of getting "attacked" has colored the way you are reading my replies?

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 09:51 AM
This is a quintessential example of what about beanieboy incites ire.

He wants to quote from the Book he doesn't believe in...but he only quotes the sections which are convenient for him. He opts to ignore any of the sections regarding his sin of choice and anything pertaining to rejecting that sin and repenting.

beanie....no one takes your posts regarding the Bible seriously.

Christians are not perfect...but we at least attempt to live by Christ's Words...all of them. Not just the parts we choose.

If you want to take the Bible as a whole, great. We look forward to your acceptance of Jesus and the rejection of the sin in which you currently wallow.

Until then, for you to pretend you believe the parts you want to use as a weapon is disingenuous and the height of hypocrisy.

And if, as you claim, you still have questions ("the jury's still out") on Jesus, there is still an entire forum specifically dedicated to attempting to enlighten you on the parts of God's expectations you claim remain murky.

Still praying for you....

:cattyfan:

Amen!

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 09:52 AM
How about you explain how comfort for your rebellion is Godly? How loving your sin more than God is Righteous? How an idolitor can even lay claim to the fruits of the Spirit of God who demands we honor Him?

You want to go off on a tangent about the fruits of the Spirit when in reality you don't have the Spirit or the natural outpouring (fruits) of that Spirit in your life. Stop using your neighbor for your own selfish desires, Love God First, with your whole being. Stop using the Word of God to justify your perversion, and realize your self righteousness doesn't get you into the presence of a God who abhores evil and rebellion.


Dont know about any one else, but that sounded like a pretty big rant right there. And last time I checked bean wasnt trying to use the scripture to justify him being a gay. He was using to show how you werent being good christians.

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 09:53 AM
Do any of you see anything in Beanieboy that you would commend or which you respect?

Which is what? The way he misuses the Bible to justify his perversion? Um... No. I don't see that as something worthy of respect.

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 09:57 AM
Dont know about any one else, but that sounded like a pretty big rant right there. And last time I checked bean wasnt trying to use the scripture to justify him being a gay. He was using to show how you werent being good christians.

How long have you been here?

bean has been around quite a while. So maybe this inaccruate judgement is based on you not reading all the threads and replies written to and from bean. Perhaps you should get acquainted with what's going on before making your judgements.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 09:58 AM
Show me when he uses it to justify his "perversion". all I want is for you to show me the post where he says this is how the bible justifies my being gay. Nothing to major.

Balder
June 3rd, 2005, 09:59 AM
Which is what? The way he misuses the Bible to justify his perversion? Um... No. I don't see that as something worthy of respect.

No, I know what you dislike. You've made that loud and clear on more than one occasion. I'm asking if there is anything about him -- or what comes through of him in his posts, really -- that you respect or of which you approve.

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 10:01 AM
Look, there is a Search at the top of the page. Use it to search for posts by beanieboy. Give a few 100 of them a read, then we will talk.

Other than that, I'm off to go shopping. When I get back, if you have done your homework, maybe we can pick this back up in a bit :)

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 10:01 AM
How long have you been here?

bean has been around quite a while. So maybe this inaccruate judgement is based on you not reading all the threads and replies written to and from bean. Perhaps you should get acquainted with what's going on before making your judgements.

You still didnt answer my question.

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 10:02 AM
How about you explain how comfort for your rebellion is Godly? How loving your sin more than God is Righteous? How an idolitor can even lay claim to the fruits of the Spirit of God who demands we honor Him?

You want to go off on a tangent about the fruits of the Spirit when in reality you don't have the Spirit or the natural outpouring (fruits) of that Spirit in your life. Stop using your neighbor for your own selfish desires, Love God First, with your whole being. Stop using the Word of God to justify your perversion, and realize your self righteousness doesn't get you into the presence of a God who abhores evil and rebellion.

I asked a simple question.

Can you demonstrate fruits of the spirit or not?

cattyfan
June 3rd, 2005, 10:06 AM
Show me when he uses it to justify his "perversion". all I want is for you to show me the post where he says this is how the bible justifies my being gay. Nothing to major.


It's not so much a justification (from my perspective.)

He keeps saying he wants Christians to follow what is in the Bible.

Well...okay. One of the things Christians are taught is if you see someone merrily dancing toward Hell, it's your duty to warn them that's where they're headed.

In rejecting Christ as the One True Way, beanie has started his stroll to a firey end.

In further rejecting Biblical teachings by following his inclination to sin, (homosexuality) he has shortened his walk to the lake of fire.

In pointing these things out, we are doing what the beanster asks: following the teachings of God.

But these, apparently, aren't the parts of the Bible he wants us to believe and act upon. He would prefer we ignore those (lengthy) sections in the Old and New Testaments, and instead give him a pass.

As I've stated countless times in discussions with him and others, Christians are not perfect. Most of us, however, try to avoid sin, and when we fail, we are repentant. beanie neither attempts to avoid it, nor does he even acknowledge he HAS sinned. And therein lies the crux of the dispute.


This is a discussion which has been going in circles since his arrival. May I suggest you do a search of his posts and get better acquainted with him?

Balder
June 3rd, 2005, 10:07 AM
Being evasive again, Nin?

I've read many of his posts. I definitely see things I respect. But we're not talking about my opinion of him. I'm asking you about yours, based upon what you've read. You don't have to answer it if you don't want, or you can just say "Yes" or "No" and leave it at that. My personal opinion isn't relevant to the question.

Peace,
B.

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 10:07 AM
This is a quintessential example of what about beanieboy incites ire.

He wants to quote from the Book he doesn't believe in...but he only quotes the sections which are convenient for him. He opts to ignore any of the sections regarding his sin of choice and anything pertaining to rejecting that sin and repenting.

beanie....no one takes your posts regarding the Bible seriously.

Christians are not perfect...but we at least attempt to live by Christ's Words...all of them. Not just the parts we choose.

If you want to take the Bible as a whole, great. We look forward to your acceptance of Jesus and the rejection of the sin in which you currently wallow.

Until then, for you to pretend you believe the parts you want to use as a weapon is disingenuous and the height of hypocrisy.

And if, as you claim, you still have questions ("the jury's still out") on Jesus, there is still an entire forum specifically dedicated to attempting to enlighten you on the parts of God's expectations you claim remain murky.

Still praying for you....

:cattyfan:


And what should I think of one who claims to be a Christian but doesn't demonstrate the fruits of the spirit, and is a false prophet? Ignore the warning of Jesus?

Everyone's answer is to quickly point to homosexuality.

But should one avoid false prophets or not?
If Jesus says "by their fruits you shall know them", and the fruits are clearly laid out, should my inquiries for the validity of christianity pay attentiontop someone who only seems to demonstrate wrath, anger, haughtiness, and impatience?

Should listen to someone who exalts themself as being better than another?

cattyfan
June 3rd, 2005, 10:10 AM
And what should I think of one who claims to be a Christian but doesn't demonstrate the fruits of the spirit, and is a false prophet? Ignore the warning of Jesus?

Everyone's answer is to quickly point to homosexuality.

But should one avoid false prophets or not?
If Jesus says "by their fruits you shall know them", and the fruits are clearly laid out, should my inquiries for the validity of christianity pay attentiontop someone who only seems to demonstrate wrath, anger, haughtiness, and impatience?

Should listen to someone who exalts themself as being better than another?



You don't like Neneveh's approach...fine. There are plenty of others on this board who have made their replies tactful, polite, and gentle...and you've chosen to ignore them, as well.


From whom, and in what tone, does the message need to be delivered to get you to listen?

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 10:20 AM
Anyone who is working through the Holy Spirit, that shows the fruit of the Spirit.
One of those fruits is gentleness. Another is patience.

Tell me that God hates me, and that I am God's enemy. Why would I think, "I want to surrender to the enemy that hates me"? It's illogical.

I am told that God hates me, but God's love is unconditional - on the condition that I love God first.

I am told that although the bible quotes what the fruit of the spirit is, and to avoid those that do not have it, that those verses are somehow being twisted by me, although I have not taken them out of context.

When other christians rebuke those who seem to be going overboard in their tough love approach, they are attacked.

I am told that I should listen and obey the bible by people that claim to believe it and can't obey it themselves - and some who think that they are above forgiveness.

So, none of it makes sense.
It's false doctrine.

cattyfan
June 3rd, 2005, 10:27 AM
Anyone who is working through the Holy Spirit, that shows the fruit of the Spirit.
One of those fruits is gentleness. Another is patience.

Tell me that God hates me, and that I am God's enemy. Why would I think, "I want to surrender to the enemy that hates me"? It's illogical.

I am told that God hates me, but God's love is unconditional - on the condition that I love God first.

I am told that although the bible quotes what the fruit of the spirit is, and to avoid those that do not have it, that those verses are somehow being twisted by me, although I have not taken them out of context.

When other christians rebuke those who seem to be going overboard in their tough love approach, they are attacked.

I am told that I should listen and obey the bible by people that claim to believe it and can't obey it themselves - and some who think that they are above forgiveness.

So, none of it makes sense.
It's false doctrine.


A number of people have spoken to you while exhibiting the fruits of the spirit...but still your heart is hardened against God...is there any way the message of Christ could be delivered to you which you would find acceptable?

Then you say no matter from whom or how the message is delievered, you reject it as "false doctrine." So our discussions with you, regardless of tome, will never have an effect...then why do you participate?

You want Christians to follow God's Word, but, as I pointed out, when we do follow His Word, in its entirety, that also makes you unhappy.

What is it you're looking for? And what do you want from us? Please answer thse questions, not by saying what you think others are doing wrong, but by what actions and words would finally put this to rest.

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 10:37 AM
A number of people have spoken to you while exhibiting the fruits of the spirit...but still your heart is hardened against God...is there any way the message of Christ could be delivered to you which you would find acceptable?


Delivering it like Jesus. Jesus didn't say, "God hates you, and because you are an enemy of God, you are my enemy!" He said, "Behold, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me." No nastiness. No hautiness. No pressure to do it NOW! Remember the woman that washed Jesus' feet with her tears and hair? She came in AFTER Jesus spoke with her. He didn't sell God like a used car, and pressure sell her on it. He had patience. He let the HS do the work.



Then you say no matter from whom or how the message is delievered, you reject it as "false doctrine." So our discussions with you, regardless of tome, will never have an effect...then why do you participate?

Not everyone here is a false prophet.



You want Christians to follow God's Word, but, as I pointed out, when we do follow His Word, in its entirety, that also makes you unhappy.

In it's entirety? The fruits of the spirit are displayed all the time on TOL?
Yes, I would expect one to warn of the dangers of hell, but also to give water to their enemy. That is "in its entirety", and it is simply done from a worldly view of exchanging curse for curse.



What is it you're looking for? And what do you want from us? Please answer thse questions, not by saying what you think others are doing wrong, but by what actions and words would finally put this to rest.
I'm looking for Truth. If Christianity and Jesus and God and the HS are it, I will find it. Your text says as much. If it isn't, I won't arrive at that conclusion.

As ww was saying, she often lived a lie of believing that there was a God, when she wasn't sure if there was, but it calmed her fear of death. That is a painfully honest answer. I am simply looking over what I believe, weighing it, and taking it to God in prayer.

Poly tells me that God hates me.

Is that true, catty? Does God hate me? Or is that the biggest lie a person could tell another? And why would anyone ever want to come to a God that hates them?
Why would anyone want to become a member of the Mock Squad who has dedicated a thread to insult me, when even I don't do that?
Why would anyone want to become a christian when they are above rebuke even from other christians?

What would put this to rest? My relationship with God is between me and God. If people would stop making it between me and them, it would put it to rest. I am seeking God in my own way.
-I've been warned that I am going to hell.
-I've been told that this is the one true way. Several other religions have told me the same.

But it is in God's time, and mine. You are the planter, not the sun, not the seeds, not the rain. Stop yelling at the ground, "GROW! GROW! I planted you! Fine! Then rot in the ground for all I care!!!"

That's not what a farmer does.

Please answer my questions as I have answered yours.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 10:52 AM
It's not so much a justification (from my perspective.)

He keeps saying he wants Christians to follow what is in the Bible.

Well...okay. One of the things Christians are taught is if you see someone merrily dancing toward Hell, it's your duty to warn them that's where they're headed.

In rejecting Christ as the One True Way, beanie has started his stroll to a firey end.

In further rejecting Biblical teachings by following his inclination to sin, (homosexuality) he has shortened his walk to the lake of fire.

In pointing these things out, we are doing what the beanster asks: following the teachings of God.

But these, apparently, aren't the parts of the Bible he wants us to believe and act upon. He would prefer we ignore those (lengthy) sections in the Old and New Testaments, and instead give him a pass.

As I've stated countless times in discussions with him and others, Christians are not perfect. Most of us, however, try to avoid sin, and when we fail, we are repentant. beanie neither attempts to avoid it, nor does he even acknowledge he HAS sinned. And therein lies the crux of the dispute.


This is a discussion which has been going in circles since his arrival. May I suggest you do a search of his posts and get better acquainted with him?


So, by your own admission bean isnt trying to justify his being gay with the bible. He is mearly saying that hey, all of you could be better christians. And instead of stopping to examine your selves, you shout and yell, and call names. Much like children. Thats my point.

cattyfan
June 3rd, 2005, 10:56 AM
God hates sin. He wants us to try to avoid sin, and when we fail, repent. What in those words isn't clear?

God wants us to accept Him as the One True God. That, too, is pretty straight forward.

And the reason you have yet to accept either of those statements is because in doing so, you would also have to accept that you are a sinner.

I have never put myself above anyone here. I sin...it is the nature of humans to do so. I haven't mocked you. I haven't called you names. I have upon occasion lost my patience.

I have also attempted to forge a working dialogue with you...and I believe that meets the requirements you set forth. Yet I (and others) have had no effect on you.

I don't want to talk about how Poly or Nineveh or anyone else has approached you...or called you names....or said something nasty. For every person who has approached you with hostility in an attempt to get you to view sin realistically, there is a person who has tried in a gentle way to get you to turn from sin. They have all been equally ineffective.

You say you've read the Bible, and I believe you have a good working knowledge of the printed Word...but you haven't let those Words into your heart. That saddens me more than if you'd never read the Bible at all.

You've also stated you believe the Bible is "false doctrine." this says that no matter what is said to you or by whom that you will not believe the Word of God.

So again I ask you: what do you want specifically from the Christians on this board....not who on this board has hurt your feelings...not questions which have been answered ad nauseum...not grandiose statements which try to shade your quest as that of a martyr.

What do you want from the Christians on this board?

cattyfan
June 3rd, 2005, 10:57 AM
So, by your own admission bean isnt trying to justify his being gay with the bible. He is mearly saying that hey, all of you could be better christians. And instead of stopping to examine your selves, you shout and yell, and call names. Much like children. Thats my point.



I've never said he uses it to justify his sin...that's why the words "from my perspective" were included.

But apparently your reading comprehension is "much like a child's."

Turbo
June 3rd, 2005, 11:01 AM
Are you actually reading me posts?
Yes.

I said that the jury was out on that. That's not what you said yesterday.

I'm unsure what I think about Christ.Then why do you take claim to take his advice on anything? Seriously, if someone claims to be God, it would be wise to figure out whether that claim is true before looking to him for advice.

(Not that I believe you for a second when you say that you are trying to figure that out, or that you "follow his advice.")


The bible says, seek, and you will find.
I'm seeking. That's not what you said yesterday.


But Christ warned against false prophets that show no fruit of the spirit. And if Christ is not God, then he is a false prophet.


Checklist:
22But (C)the fruit of the Spirit is
love joy; peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

Now, whine all you want that I am twisting scripture, but this is what it says. They don't show it,Yes, they do.



"You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him. Leviticus 19:17

And as Nineveh said, your expectations (and your love of playing the victim) is coloring how you read our posts.


so Christ instructs to beware of them.Again, why should that matter to you?

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 11:03 AM
I've never said he uses it to justify his sin...that's why the words "from my perspective" were included.

But apparently your reading comprehension is "much like a child's."

Okay, so, like I said, by "your own adission", he doesnt use the bible to justifiy his "sin". From your own perspective, he doesnt use the bible to justify his "sin". Thank you. Glad you could understand where I was coming from and what I was saying. :BRAVO:

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 11:04 AM
I have never put myself above anyone here. I sin...it is the nature of humans to do so. I haven't mocked you. I haven't called you names. I have upon occasion lost my patience.

This is acceptable.It is human.



I have also attempted to forge a working dialogue with you...and I believe that meets the requirements you set forth. Yet I (and others) have had no effect on you.
You planted seeds. You have no idea that it took effect. If you don't think that it did, you have no faith in the HS. What you want it: "Gee, catty. You're right. I want to accept Jesus." This isn't about you. You are a planter of seeds, not the force that makes them grow. And just because I don't agree with you, you get frustrated. You have to expect that there are those that will disagree, even christians may disagree with you, and learn to deal with that.

I'm sorry that I don't believe everyone that tells me "this is the way. My book says so." But because of that, because I question and examine, it makes my convictions stronger.



I don't want to talk about how Poly or Nineveh or anyone else has approached you...or called you names....or said something nasty. For every person who has approached you with hostility in an attempt to get you to view sin realistically, there is a person who has tried in a gentle way to get you to turn from sin. They have all been equally ineffective.

That is my problem. You focus on me, are quick to say things about me, and sit silently while your brethren act in any way. Do you not believe that christians should correct one another, and therefore, disagree with the bible?



You say you've read the Bible, and I believe you have a good working knowledge of the printed Word...but you haven't let those Words into your heart. That saddens me more than if you'd never read the Bible at all.

You've also stated you believe the Bible is "false doctrine." this says that no matter what is said to you or by whom that you will not believe the Word of God.

So again I ask you: what do you want specifically from the Christians on this board....not who on this board has hurt your feelings...not questions which have been answered ad nauseum...not grandiose statements which try to shade your quest as that of a martyr.

What do you want from the Christians on this board?

I didn't say that the bible is false doctrine.

I'm saying that Poly is telling the unsaved that God hates them. That's false doctrine.
Poly is already rejoicing at me burning in hell, yet claims to love God. That's false doctrine.

And you do nothing.

cattyfan
June 3rd, 2005, 11:12 AM
Okay, so, like I said, by "your own adission", he doesnt use the bible to justifiy his "sin". From your own perspective, he doesnt use the bible to justify his "sin". Thank you. Glad you could understand where I was coming from and what I was saying. :BRAVO:


What I'm saying is your remark and argument were with someone other than me.

As for where you're "coming from," as nearly as I can tell, it's a position of ignorance, having not bothered to do as we've asked and get some background on the discussion before you attempt to participate.

When, as Nineveh suggested, you do your homework, we might start giving a little weight to your opinion. Until then, your comments aren't worth much.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 11:17 AM
That is what I like to call being called on the carpet.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 11:18 AM
What I'm saying is your remark and argument were with someone other than me.

As for where you're "coming from," as nearly as I can tell, it's a position of ignorance, having not bothered to do as we've asked and get some background on the discussion before you attempt to participate.

When, as Nineveh suggested, you do your homework, we might start giving a little weight to your opinion. Until then, your comments arent't worth much.


Who says I havent? Have you? Can you show me where and when bean did? No, you cant. So, untill then...

On Fire
June 3rd, 2005, 11:21 AM
I'm looking for Truth. If Christianity and Jesus and God and the HS are it, I will find it. Your text says as much. If it isn't, I won't arrive at that conclusion.

Many people stare truth in the face and don't recognize it.

cattyfan
June 3rd, 2005, 11:25 AM
You planted seeds. You have no idea that it took effect. If you don't think that it did, you have no faith in the HS. What you want it: "Gee, catty. You're right. I want to accept Jesus." This isn't about you. You are a planter of seeds, not the force that makes them grow. And just because I don't agree with you, you get frustrated. You have to expect that there are those that will disagree, even christians may disagree with you, and learn to deal with that.

You are correct. This isn't about me...it's about you and your claim you are looking for the Truth.



I'm sorry that I don't believe everyone that tells me "this is the way. My book says so." But because of that, because I question and examine, it makes my convictions stronger.

And you state here you have already rejected the Truth...even though you are still "questioning and examining."



That is my problem. You focus on me, are quick to say things about me, and sit silently while your brethren act in any way. Do you not believe that christians should correct one another, and therefore, disagree with the bible?

The focus is on you because that is where you placed it when saying you are on a quest for Truth. If it's your quest, pray tell where else should the focus be?

What have I said about you that is incorrect? And have I also repeatedly said that I also sin?

As for correcting others, you really aren't paying attention. I said I on other threads that I don't support the name-calling (and you have previously acknowledged that I have never participated in the name-calling.) You also have no way of knowing what gets said via PMs or on threads to which you have no access.

For the record, howeverr, I'll say again: I think calling someone vile names is out of line...a sin. Calling someone what they really are is not a sin.

And a heavy-handed, hob-nail boot approach isn't likely to win converts.




I didn't say that the bible is false doctrine.

I'm saying that Poly is telling the unsaved that God hates them. That's false doctrine.
Poly is already rejoicing at me burning in hell, yet claims to love God. That's false doctrine.

And you do nothing.


No one is rejoicing in the thought of anyone burning in Hell. Frankly the knowledge that some of the people I know (not just here, but in face-to-face life) are going to suffer eternal torment because of their rejection of Christ is something that quite literally keeps me up at night. I don't enjoy the idea that people who have the opportunity to know and love the Lord choose instead to sign on for an unending bath of pain.

Has it occurred to you Poly and others come on so strong because it bothers them, too....and they are desperate to keep that from happening?

I'll continue to pray (as I have been) that someone's words will help you to be open to the Holy Spirit...that somehow your heart will not remain hardened to God's Word.

That's really the only option I have left.

On Fire
June 3rd, 2005, 11:26 AM
Who says I havent? Have you? Can you show me where and when bean did? No, you cant. So, untill then...
Is that a chip on your shoulder or are you just happy to see me?

cattyfan
June 3rd, 2005, 11:27 AM
Is that a chip on your shoulder or are you just happy to see me?


he's kind of like having one of those nasty little yipping dogs nipping at your heels...no effect on anything, just annoying.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 11:36 AM
Is that a chip on your shoulder or are you just happy to see me?


Nope, and I'm not happy to see you at all.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 11:41 AM
he's kind of like having one of those nasty little yipping dogs nipping at your heels...no effect on anything, just annoying.


I find it funny that while I can put forth real questions, and ask you questions, and not a get a respons from it, you still find time to insult my demenor.

Fasinating.

On Fire
June 3rd, 2005, 11:42 AM
It's "poor", not "pore".

On Fire
June 3rd, 2005, 11:45 AM
I find it funny that while I can put forth real questions, and ask you questions, and not a get a respons from it, you still find time to insult my demenor.

Fasinating.
I'll try to answer your question if you'll restate it.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 11:46 AM
It's "poor", not "pore".


Thanks was wondering about that.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 11:49 AM
I'll try to answer your question if you'll restate it.


Okay. Hows this.

Could you please, show me the post where Bean, was trying to defend his personal life style with scripture.

If you can, I would like to see that post.

On Fire
June 3rd, 2005, 11:49 AM
Thanks was wondering about that.
:up:

On Fire
June 3rd, 2005, 11:58 AM
Okay. Hows this.

Could you please, show me the post where Bean, was trying to defend his personal life style with scripture.

If you can, I would like to see that post.
Wow...that's not so much a question as it is a request for research. Bean has over 4,000 posts. I've conversed with him on many occasions. In summary:

Bean is a homosexual.

Bean says he is a former Christian.

Bean does not agree with the Bible and Christians who tell him that homosexuality is an abomination in God's eyes.

Bean likely abandoned God when he was unable to reconcile his sinful deathstyle with Christ's calling.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 12:11 PM
Wow...that's not so much a questions as it is a request for research. Bean has over 4,000 posts. I've conversed with him on many occasions. In summary:

Bean is a homosexual.

Bean says he is a former Christian.

Bean does not agree with the Bible and Christians who tell him that homosexuality is an abomination in God's eyes.

Bean likely abandoned God when he was unable to reconcile his sinful deathstyle with Christ's calling.


Thank you that was very well thought out post.

Now, heres where I come in.

Yes, Bean is a homosexual. In your eyes thats evil, I'll give you that one. But in the eyes of the rest of the world, it is not evil, it is okay, its a persons own choice to do what they will in the bed room. In this day and age, its no ones place to tell any one what they do there. Maybe back in the "day" when christians could force people to do what they wanted, but, hey, thats what I like to call progress.

As far as Bean leaving the faith, he problably realized like, my self, and several others, that when you look at every thing that christians ask you not to believe in, it just doent make that much sense.

And like I said, its an abomination in your gods eyes, not in his own. People can believe in other gods then the chrisitan one. I sure wish some of you would start to get that.

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 12:13 PM
I asked a simple question.

Can you demonstrate fruits of the spirit or not?


You want to be able to recognize the fruits of the Spirit without the Spirit. I'm not sure darkeness can understand light, as John explained.

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 12:15 PM
I abandoned what I was taught when I saw people dying of AIDS, and the church offering condemnation, rather than compassion, and when I saw churches excluding gay people from churches specifically. I left after hearing a priest tell a troubled 15 yr old, who felt troubled by his same sex feelings, that he would be better dead than gay. I left because people like Poly told gay people that they were hated by God, and that is the biggest lie ever told.

I thought they were misled, and still do.

There are many who are now caring for those in hospices, but they seem to have come around after being led by others outside the church who understood how to treat one another.

And I wanted to find out what the leaders of the compassion believed.

And everything pointed to Buddhism. I see it as a stopping point, not a destination. I am to learn what I can from here, and I have learned a lot.

But I think that Christians have a lot of catching up to do with the heathens.

As for the biblical references, I simply state that theologians are split on what the bible says of the 6 or 7 passages, which is examined on www.whosoever.org.

Christians, in general, are strangely obsessed with homosexuality, and don't speak much of the fact that most heterosexual adults are sexually active.

Homosexuals are just an easier target.

I understand why one considers it a sin, and why one doesn't. Being Buddhist, I see nothing to justify, especially not with the Bible.

I simply look at it from a Buddhist point of view. Whom does it hurt? No one, so I think of it as a non-issue.

The curious thing is that while one will say that it is in the bible, I can point to hundreds of verses on something like drunkenness, and no one is protesting bars, or people drinking at weddings - which are supposed to be holy, or frat houses.

It is a lesser sin. But it makes you do things you regret, drunken driving has killed people.
But it is a sin no one pays attention to.

Nor saying, "Oh, my God, Jenny!! How are you" - taking the name of God in vain.

Yet, somehow, this "sin" of homosexuality - two people simply loving one another - counts.

If the bible is not taken seriously in its entirety by believers, then it is impossible for a non-believer to take any of it seriously.

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 12:15 PM
Being evasive again, Nin?

I've read many of his posts. I definitely see things I respect. But we're not talking about my opinion of him. I'm asking you about yours, based upon what you've read. You don't have to answer it if you don't want, or you can just say "Yes" or "No" and leave it at that. My personal opinion isn't relevant to the question.

Peace,
B.


Pehaps you missed the "no" part?

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 12:29 PM
You want to be able to recognize the fruits of the Spirit without the Spirit. I'm not sure darkeness can understand light, as John explained.


Darkness always comprehends light, you seem to be able to tell the two apart fairly well, in your eyes, we do the same in ours.

The sooner you learn that every single person on this planet has different perseptions then you, the better off you'll be.

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 12:34 PM
No one is rejoicing in the thought of anyone burning in Hell. Frankly the knowledge that some of the people I know (not just here, but in face-to-face life) are going to suffer eternal torment because of their rejection of Christ is something that quite literally keeps me up at night. I don't enjoy the idea that people who have the opportunity to know and love the Lord choose instead to sign on for an unending bath of pain.




You're my enemy because you are God's enemy. You spit in His face claiming not to need His Son. I take that kind of personal. And if I take it personal you better know that it doesn't hold a candle to how personal God takes it. And when you stand before Him and He says He wants nothing to do with you because you wanted nothing to do with His Son, I'm going to be rejoice seeing you get what you justly deserve


You seem to be mistaken, catty.

And you do what? Look the other way?
Don't want to risk your rep points?
Or do you rebuke your christian brethren.
Poly here does rejoice at my eternal torture.
Poly's not kept awake at night. She's excited about it, and looking forward to it.

Is that what you God is about?
Is this a good witness?
Do you like someone presenting God as a) hating me and b) rejoicing when I burn in hell?

Are you going to stand up for what you believe?

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 12:35 PM
Darkness always comprehends light,

Let's weigh your opinion against John the Baptist's:

In him (Christ) was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

Since I used to fall outside of the Light of men at one point in my life, I have to agree with John on this.


you seem to be able to tell the two apart fairly well, in your eyes, we do the same in ours.

Yes, I know. bean and you seem prone to calling light darkness and darkness light. I'm not shocked by this. There is a gulf between your ideas and God's.


The sooner you learn that every single person on this planet has different perseptions then you, the better off you'll be.

Perhaps the sooner you learn that some choose to follow a Just and Righteous God rather than their own opinions, the better off you will be :)

cattyfan
June 3rd, 2005, 12:37 PM
beanie...I'm still waiting.

I'll even make it easy for you. Complete the following sentence:

"I want the Christians on TOL to ____________________________________."

fill it in. Not "so-and-so calls me names." Not "but they said something before." Not "but I believe this now and here's something Buddha said."

The answer is what EXACTLY do you want the Christians on this forum to do. Nothing vague or general....and nothing about what we may or may not have failed at previously. And nothing quoted from the Bible, a book you don't believe in.

Tell us what YOU want...and what will keep us from having this same discussion next month.

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 12:39 PM
Let's weigh your opinion against John the Baptist's:

In him (Christ) was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.



Only Light understands light?

Why would light need more light?

Isn't the point of light to illuminate the darkness, thus, taking the darkness away?

But if only light understands light, then only the saved can understand Christ, so you have to be saved to accept Jesus, which seems rather redundant.

How do the unsaved (those in darkness) ever come to the idea that they need God (light) if they can't understand it?

Turbo
June 3rd, 2005, 12:42 PM
Okay. Hows this.

Could you please, show me the post where Bean, was trying to defend his personal life style with scripture.

If you can, I would like to see that post.Here's one thread:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=754246#postcount=48

Here is another:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=516868#post516868

Here are some more:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=496403#post496403 (be sure to read the his post following this one as well)

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=491090#post491090

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=739479#post739479

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 12:47 PM
beanie...I'm still waiting.

I'll even make it easy for you. Complete the following sentence:

"I want the Christians on TOL to ____________________________________."

fill it in. Not "so-and-so calls me names." Not "but they said something before." Not "but I believe this now and here's something Buddha said."

The answer is what EXACTLY do you want the Christians on this forum to do. Nothing vague or general....and nothing about what we may or may not have failed at previously. And nothing quoted from the Bible, a book you don't believe in.

Tell us what YOU want...and what will keep us from having this same discussion next month.

I have said this repeatedly.
I am trying to live only by example.
I am trying not to instruct Christians how to live.
You have asked me, so I can give examples to take or leave.

I want Christians on TOL to:
- call other christians on non-christian behavior, and respond accordingly when a brother rebukes you in love.
- understand that everyone comes to God in their own time, not someone else's.
- admit that there is a possiblity that they may be wrong, and be respectful that not everyone has the answers. Just because another christian doesn't agree doesn't make them an idiot. There is a possibility that you may be wrong.
- live by example.
- to love your enemies, as instructed.

But generally? To be a little more open. It's like people see the unsaved as the enemy, and attack them for coming through the door of the church.

As I said, take this with a grain of salt.

I don't want to instruct christians.
I am going to continue on the buddhist path, and live by example.
Continue to do what you will, reflect on what I said, do what you will.

Namaste

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 12:48 PM
Let's weigh your opinion against John the Baptist's:

In him (Christ) was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

Since I used to fall outside of the Light of men at one point in my life, I have to agree with John on this.



Yes, I know. bean and you seem prone to calling light darkness and darkness light. I'm not shocked by this. There is a gulf between your ideas and God's.



Perhaps the sooner you learn that some choose to follow a Just and Righteous God rather than their own opinions, the better off you will be :)

Like I said, its all about the personal views man. You believe what you want, and I will believe what I want. The difference is that I dont force what I believe down peoples throats.

I'm glad your not shocked. There is a gulf between my ideas and your gods ideas.

If it improves your life, thats great. You seem to think that because I'm not a christian I'm a horrible reprobate, this I am not.

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 12:49 PM
Only Light understands light?

Why would light need more light?

Maybe you should focus on the darkness not understanding Christ. You often use "misunderstanding" in your replies after all.


Isn't the point of light to illuminate the darkness, thus, taking the darkness away?

But if only light understands light, then only the saved can understand Christ, so you have to be saved to accept Jesus, which seems rather redundant.

Not really, first you have to understand when God talks about you being in darkness and stumbling around in your sin, He really is talking to you. Once you come to terms with where you actually stand with God you might be more open to accepting Him and His understandings over your own. But that's a big leap for you, I know, to be humble before a God that doesn't agree with you. And certainly much less comfy than a pagan idol that doesn't care one way or another.


How do the unsaved (those in darkness) ever come to the idea that they need God (light) if they can't understand it?

Speaking for myself, it came down to the place I could no longer tell God He was wrong about me because He put it all right in my face. I could at that point do like you and try to justify my sins yet one more time, or I could agree with this God who knew me to my very soul.

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 12:50 PM
Maybe you should focus on the darkness not understanding Christ. You often use "misunderstanding" in your replies after all.

Not really, first you have to understand when God talks about you being in darkness and stumbling around in your sin, He really is talking to you. Once you come to terms with where you actually stand with God you might be more open to accepting Him and His understandings over your own. But that's a big leap for you, I know, to be humble before a God that doesn't agree with you. And certainly much less comfy than a pagan idol that doesn't care one way or another.

Speaking for myself, it came down to the place I could no longer tell God He was wrong about me because He put it all right in my face. I could at that point do like you and try to justify my sins yet one more time, or I could agree with this God who knew me to my very soul.

Yet other christians question your tactics, and you ignore them, even when biblically supported. Why is that, Nineveh?

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 12:52 PM
Like I said, its all about the personal views man. You believe what you want, and I will believe what I want. The difference is that I dont force what I believe down peoples throats.

Then my advice to you is quit judging people by your standards while judging them for judging. Some one may take that as an example of your atempt to shove your opinions down other's throats :)


I'm glad your not shocked. There is a gulf between my ideas and your gods ideas.

Hey! We agree :)


If it improves your life, thats great. You seem to think that because I'm not a christian I'm a horrible reprobate, this I am not.

Actually, about the only thing I have really thought about you so far is that you jumped into this convo being a hypocrite.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 12:53 PM
Here's one thread:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=754246#postcount=48

Here is another:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=516868#post516868

Here are some more:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=496403#post496403 (be sure to read the his post following this one as well)

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=491090#post491090

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=739479#post739479


Okay, I can see where he was challenging it, yes. But when did he say the bible defended it?

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 12:54 PM
Yet other christians question your tactics, and you ignore them, even when biblically supported. Why is that, Nineveh?

Who?

The people who claim to follow Christ but are more than willing to hold your hand while you continue in your rebellion? I'm not going to comfort you and tickle your ears like your idol beanie, your works will be burned away and you will be left with nothing but what you love most, you.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 12:56 PM
Then my advice to you is quit judging people by your standards while judging them for judging. Some one may take that as an example of your atempt to shove your opinions down other's throats :)



Hey! We agree :)



Actually, about the only thing I have really thought about you so far is that you jumped into this convo being a hypocrite.


I would first ask you to take your own advice, by removing that board out of your eye before going after myself of Bean. The subtle difference is that your trying to force people to believe as you do, I'm just doing what every one else does and voice their oppinions.

As far as hypocrites goes, there are several here, I dont think I'm one of them.

Turbo
June 3rd, 2005, 01:00 PM
Okay, I can see where he was challenging it, yes. But when did he say the bible defended it?
He argues that the God of the Bible does not condemn it, or that if He does there's no way of knowing for sure because the Bible is so ambiguous on the matter, so Christians should give him a pass.

beanieboy doesn't even believe the Bible is God's word, so why is he afraid to acknowledge what it plainly states? It's weird, isn't it? Can you imagine any of the Christians here hanging out at a Muslim site and trying to cast doubt on Koran passages that condemn us?

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 01:00 PM
Who?

The people who claim to follow Christ but are more than willing to hold your hand while you continue in your rebellion? I'm not going to comfort you and tickle your ears like your idol beanie, your works will be burned away and you will be left with nothing but what you love most, you.


Thats pretty hateful. Doesnt it get tireing being that hateful all the time? Doesnt your soul just want a break once and while and be at peace. Rest every once and while. You must have a tone of negitive energy stored up to be that, well, mean.

I hope that one day you are not put through the forge Nineveh, I fear that your hate will cause you to harden and break.

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 01:02 PM
I would first ask you to take tyour own advice, by removing that board out of your eye before going after myself of Bean.

Sexual perversion? Idolitry? I practice neither. So, what plank?


The subtle difference is that your trying to force people to believe as you do, I'm just doing what every one else does and voice their oppinions.

Firstly, I can't force anyone to do anything. Secondly, you judge people for judging, that isn't merely an opinion, that's being a hypocrite. Like I said before, either A. continue judging and quit telling others not to or B. Stop judging.


As far as hypocrites goes, there are several here, I dont think I'm one of them.

Even when you judge others for judging? Wow... I dunno how much more clear of an example you would need to see something so blatant.

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 01:08 PM
Thats pretty hateful. Doesnt it get tireing being that hateful all the time? Doesnt your soul just want a break once and while and be at peace. Rest every once and while. You must have a tone of negitive energy stored up to be that, well, mean.

I hope that one day you are not put through the forge Nineveh, I fear that your hate will cause you to harden and break.

Here's another example of the gulf between you and God.

You think it's loving to comfort a homo in his sin and rebellion. I find that rather hate filled myself.

Turbo
June 3rd, 2005, 01:12 PM
Thats pretty hateful. It's pretty truthful and direct.
Doesnt it get tireing being that hateful all the time? Doesnt your soul just want a break once and while and be at peace. Rest every once and while. You must have a tone of negitive energy stored up to be that, well, mean.

I hope that one day you are not put through the forge Nineveh, I fear that your hate will cause you to harden and break.
Have you ever read any books from the #1 bestseller of all time, the Bible? If so, which ones?

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 01:27 PM
He argues that the God of the Bible does not condemn it, or that if He does there's no way of knowing for sure because the Bible is so ambiguous on the matter, so Christians should give him a pass.

beanieboy doesn't even believe the Bible is God's word, so why is he afraid to acknowledge what it plainly states? It's weird, isn't it? Can you imagine any of the Christians here hanging out at a Muslim site and trying to cast doubt on Koran passages that condemn us?

Thats just the thing though, I dont think he is asking for a pass, he has no need to justify himself in your eyes, or any one elses. How about if a muslim came here? How would you recive him?

Balder
June 3rd, 2005, 01:29 PM
Pehaps you missed the "no" part?

No, I didn't miss the "no" part. I read it in the context of your sentence, which was this:

"Which is what? The way he misuses the Bible to justify his perversion? Um... No. I don't see that as something worthy of respect."

It seems to me as if your "No" is a refutation of that one act which you attribute to him. It is not a direct yes or no to the question which I asked.

I find your slippery language use frustrating, Nin, but also fascinating. I harbor a suspicion that you have a soft spot under there somewhere, after all, and you have to move around in this way to avoid revealing it...

Take your time.

Peace,

B.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 01:30 PM
It's pretty truthful and direct.
Have you ever read any books from the #1 bestseller of all time, the Bible? If so, which ones?


All of them funny enough, but when you dont believe them they carry very little weight, I still find that there are good points in them, like the proverbs and the pslams.

I take the bible as a good story book told to children scaring them believing in an all powerful god that will send them to hell for the slightest infraction.

And like I've been saying its truthful from your point of view. Its a good thing the rational world doesnt listen to you guys.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 01:34 PM
Here's another example of the gulf between you and God.

You think it's loving to comfort a homo in his sin and rebellion. I find that rather hate filled myself.


Thats just the difference. You would rather be ruled by hate then kindness. Although, you see kindness in brow beating your fellow man, so. I guess for you kindness is relitive.

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 01:35 PM
No, I didn't miss the "no" part. I read it in the context of your sentence, which was this:

"Which is what? The way he misuses the Bible to justify his perversion? Um... No. I don't see that as something worthy of respect."

It seems to me as if your "No" is a refutation of that one act which you attribute to him. It is not a direct yes or no to the question which I asked.

And what other "acts" would you have me judge here on TOL? How he dresses? Your question had to do with if anyone finds something respectful about the guy. I can only go by what I've seen of him here on TOL. That's what I've seen, that's why I answered as I did, to save you the trouble in asking "why" if I had given a brief "no" answer.


I find your slippery language use frustrating, Nin, but also fascinating. I harbor a suspicion that you have a soft spot under there somewhere, after all, and you have to move around in this way to avoid revealing it...

How very judgemental of you :)

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 01:39 PM
And what other "acts" would you have me judge here on TOL? How he dresses? Your question had to do with if anyone finds something respectful about the guy. I can only go by what I've seen of him here on TOL. That's what I've seen, that's why I answered as I did, to save you the trouble in asking "why" if I had given a brief "no" answer.



How very judgemental of you :)


You cant respect him for being an intelligent? For clearly making his points? You cant show him mutal respect as a human being? Come on. I dont agree with your points but I still respect you as an intelligent person, a person who backed me to a wall and forced me to defend my self, I can respect that. But then again, I have honor, and for those who dont have any honor, there can be no respect.

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 01:40 PM
Thats just the difference. You would rather be ruled by hate then kindness.

Once upon a time I labled love as watching people wallow in sin, now I see Love as trying to get people out of it. To you, who still sees love as watching others wallow in sin, is it really kindness and love to see a homosexual put himself at risk for a list of diseases merely for a fleeting pleasure?


Although, you see kindness in brow beating your fellow man, so. I guess for you kindness is relitive.

Really? I've "browbeat" someone?

Or is that what you call correcting a homo in his misuse of the Bible? Or perhaps that's how you see trying to point out to someone that judging for judging is hypocricy? Or is it you just over generalize on a regular basis?

fool
June 3rd, 2005, 01:44 PM
Is Beanieboy the only gay guy here?
are you really gay Beanie?

Turbo
June 3rd, 2005, 01:48 PM
All of them funny enough...
If that's the case then what Nineveh said in her "hateful" post should have sounded very familiar. What she said was no more hateful that what Jesus, the apostles, and the phophets said.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 01:49 PM
Once upon a time I labled love as watching people wallow in sin, now I see Love as trying to get people out of it. To you, who still sees love as watching others wallow in sin, is it really kindness and love to see a homosexual put himself at risk for a list of diseases merely for a fleeting pleasure?



Really? I've "browbeat" someone?

Or is that what you call correcting a homo in his misuse of the Bible? Or perhaps that's how you see trying to point out to someone that judging for judging is hypocricy? Or is it you just over generalize on a regular basis?


No, thats deffinatly brow beating right there. The problem is you dont want to admit the fact that maybe he makes good point every once and while. You would rather sit there with you arms crossed and shake your head not wanting to admit that he might be right every now and then. I've admited on several points where I've been wrong. Hey, you were right earlier, I was being judgmental, and I was wrong, I'm sorry. I humbly ask for forgivness. If you can grant it that is.

If I have over generalized, well, I only follow the example of the christians here.

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 01:49 PM
You cant respect him for being an intelligent? For clearly making his points?

I haven't seen it yet.


You cant show him mutal respect as a human being?

What you call respect is making him feel comfortable in his deathstyle. Tell me, will you go visit if he winds up in a hospice? Will you be there championing his cause while he lay dying from a disease he could have avoided? How about on Judgement Day? Will you be the one to stand between God and bean's pride?


Come on. I dont agree with your points but I still respect you as an intelligent person, a person who backed me to a wall and forced me to defend my self, I can respect that. But then again, I have honor, and for those who dont have any honor, there can be no respect.

If lying to bean is what it takes to earn your respect, I'll pass.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 01:54 PM
I haven't seen it yet.



What you call respect is making him feel comfortable in his deathstyle. Tell me, will you go visit if he winds up in a hospice? Will you be there championing his cause while he lay dying from a disease he could have avoided? How about on Judgement Day? Will you be the one to stand between God and bean's pride?



If lying to bean is what it takes to earn your respect, I'll pass.


Would you be there Nin? Would you be there as a comforter or as one trying to get one last soul before he goes? Would you do that only to try and farther your place in heaven? Or would you be there to say, its alright, it will be over soon. I think you would be there to try and get one more soul.

If that did happen and I was able yes, I would do my best to try and give comfort to a dying soul. But, I wouldnt be sad, Bean has done his best to earn his was to another life. With in forty nine days he would be rencarnated and be back doing what he does best. Bugging you people.

Balder
June 3rd, 2005, 01:56 PM
Nineveh,


And what other "acts" would you have me judge here on TOL? How he dresses? Your question had to do with if anyone finds something respectful about the guy. I can only go by what I've seen of him here on TOL. That's what I've seen, that's why I answered as I did, to save you the trouble in asking "why" if I had given a brief "no" answer.

Well, Beanie's posts consist of and reflect more than you and others have focused on, which is why I asked. I wondered if people were only seeing what they didn't like, though, and were having trouble seeing Beanie as being "more" than those particular qualities which offended them.


How very judgemental of you :)

And my judgment may be in error here. But I hope not... ;)

If you use the search key and read my 1000s of posts, I don't think you will find any from me that criticise the exercise of discriminating wisdom or the making of moral judgments. It's not having a moral position that I am questioning here.

Peace,
B.

Turbo
June 3rd, 2005, 01:57 PM
Thats just the thing though, I dont think he is asking for a pass...Then you haven't been following his posts as we have.

How about if a muslim came here? How would you recive him?It depends. Surely any muslim who came here would find out in a hurry that he is headed toward hell and he needs to accept that Jesus Christ is God and that he died for our sins and was raised from the dead according to the scriptures.

Would he get the kind of attention beanieboy gets (and seeks)? That depends. If he turned a blind eye to the biblical passages that clearly claim that Jesus is God and that salvation is available only through Him, while copying and pasting other passages and claiming to follow them, all while playing the victim when people tell him the truth, then he would likely be treated just as beanieboy is.

cattyfan
June 3rd, 2005, 01:57 PM
I have said this repeatedly.
I am trying to live only by example.
I am trying not to instruct Christians how to live.
You have asked me, so I can give examples to take or leave.

I want Christians on TOL to:
- call other christians on non-christian behavior, and respond accordingly when a brother rebukes you in love.
- understand that everyone comes to God in their own time, not someone else's.


I have done these two...



- admit that there is a possiblity that they may be wrong, and be respectful that not everyone has the answers. Just because another christian doesn't agree doesn't make them an idiot. There is a possibility that you may be wrong.


To do this is to deny Christ as our Lord and Savior. Show me someone who decides there may be other answers, and I'll rightly call them an unbeliever. Part of the definition of a Christian is complete faith in Christ...we don't hedge our bets.



- live by example.
- to love your enemies, as instructed.



And again, I strive to do both of these.




But generally? To be a little more open. It's like people see the unsaved as the enemy, and attack them for coming through the door of the church.

As I said, take this with a grain of salt.

I don't want to instruct christians.
I am going to continue on the buddhist path, and live by example.
Continue to do what you will, reflect on what I said, do what you will.

Namaste

by continuing to follow the Buddhist path, your example is that of an unbeliever...and that is an example I will never follow.


In a post the other day you made it clear part of the purpose of TOL is discussion and debate. Unfortunately the nature of debating conflicting opinions is occasionally contentious.

You know this is a site heavily trafficked by Christians, and you are smart enough to know Christians won't rally 'round the gay guy.

If you can't handle the heat to your "convictions" perhaps this isn't the place for you.

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 01:59 PM
beanie...I'm still waiting.

I'll even make it easy for you. Complete the following sentence:

"I want the Christians on TOL to ____________________________________."

fill it in. Not "so-and-so calls me names." Not "but they said something before." Not "but I believe this now and here's something Buddha said."

The answer is what EXACTLY do you want the Christians on this forum to do. Nothing vague or general....and nothing about what we may or may not have failed at previously. And nothing quoted from the Bible, a book you don't believe in.

Tell us what YOU want...and what will keep us from having this same discussion next month.

I've rethought this, catty.

I think the most I will say is "I want Christians on TOL to: have a nice day.

It's not really my place or business to critique christians.
And when they get frustrated that I haven't become christian, there is little that I can do about it, because neither do I answer to them.

But, you can seek the bible and your God, and seek his counsel on how your are acting, and if it is pleasing to you.

It's really not my place, and I encourage you to remind me of this.

So, a better question is:
how would you respond to the phrase:
I want christians on TOL to_______________________
?

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 02:00 PM
No, thats deffinatly brow beating right there.

browbeating: To intimidate or subjugate by an overbearing manner or domineering speech; bully.

hmmm... let's see....


This whole thread is disgusting. Dont you people have anyting better to do with your time then attack people whom you have never met? You should all be ashamed of your selves. You attack people who have done nothing to you other then exist and have a different world view as your selves. You all sicken me. Your intollorence, your bigotry, your hate. All of you make me sick to my very stomach. I am ashamed that at one time in my life I call my self a christian. Jesus weeps that you twist his words the way you do. You dont adhear to the words of your saviour. You take what you want and twist it to your own sick depraved minds.

The problem you have with beanieboy is that he understands the words of Jesus better then you do your selves, and when he gets you on a point it makes sick that a nonbeliever got you with your own words.

I would say that I pitty you all, but, I dont. The sad part about this post is that I will also come under unwarented attack, and all of you will be offened that I had the nerve to come to the aid of some one else.

Say your worst. I welcome it.

Are you being a hypocrite again? Or did you just use the word "browbeat" without looking up what it actually means?



The problem is you dont want to admit the fact that maybe he makes good point every once and while.

And could you possibly ever believe he is wrong? I doubt it, you agree with him too much.


You would rather sit there with you arms crossed and shake your head not wanting to admit that he might be right every now and then.

According to God, he isn't. Wether he is right according to you really doesn't matter.


I've admited on several points where I've been wrong. Hey, you were right earlier, I was being judgmental, and I was wrong, I'm sorry. I humbly ask for forgivness. If you can grant it that is.

Are you sorry for being judgemental or for being a hypocrite about being judgemental?

I can forgive you as far as your inaccruate judgements against me.


If I have over generalized, well, I only follow the example of the christians here.

Um, no... no one has overgeneralized beanies misuse of Scriptures, nor his being a homo, nor his being an idolitor. So this rests soley with you.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 02:02 PM
Then you haven't been following his posts as we have.
It depends. Surely any muslim who came here would find out in a hurry that he is headed toward hell and he needs to accept that Jesus Christ is God and that he died for our sins and was raised from the dead according to the scriptures.

Would he get the kind of attention beanieboy gets (and seeks)? That depends. If he turned a blind eye to the biblical passages that clearly claim that Jesus is God and that salvation is available only through Him, while copying and pasting other passages and claiming to follow them, all while playing the victim when people tell him the truth, then he would likely be treated just as beanieboy is.


Turbo, as I read your post i could help but let out a sigh of disbelief. Do you know nothing of Islam? Do you not know that muslims revear Jesus as a great prophet? Do you not know that most muslims follow the Ten commandments? Do you not know any of this? How about Jews? Are they also going to hell? They follow the Ten commandments and believe in God. Are they going to hell too?

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 02:03 PM
Would you be there Nin?

I'm here now trying to get him to avoid it all.


Would you be there as a comforter or as one trying to get one last soul before he goes? Would you do that only to try and farther your place in heaven? Or would you be there to say, its alright, it will be over soon. I think you would be there to try and get one more soul.

I'm jealous for his soul now, not right before it's almost too late.


If that did happen and I was able yes, I would do my best to try and give comfort to a dying soul. But, I wouldnt be sad, Bean has done his best to earn his was to another life. With in forty nine days he would be rencarnated and be back doing what he does best. Bugging you people.

Hardly, it's appointed for men to die then be judged. He has earned an eternity with what he loves most so far. You should fear for him.

fool
June 3rd, 2005, 02:05 PM
he's an idolitor?
how?

Granite
June 3rd, 2005, 02:05 PM
I think it's funny that Christians act so concerned about the heathen unwashed. I mean, you'd probably get more accomplished witnessing in person as opposed to berating someone hundreds of miles away on a bulletin board.

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 02:09 PM
Well, Beanie's posts consist of and reflect more than you and others have focused on, which is why I asked.

Loads of introspection is hardly "insight". Heck, getting beanie to talk about his fave thing isn't very hard, you know.


I wondered if people were only seeing what they didn't like, though, and were having trouble seeing Beanie as being "more" than those particular qualities which offended them.

Which is what when it's boiled right down? A homosexual idolitor. Has he offered any insights other than those? No, not really.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 02:12 PM
browbeating: To intimidate or subjugate by an overbearing manner or domineering speech; bully.

hmmm... let's see....



Are you being a hypocrite again? Or did you just use the word "browbeat" without looking up what it actually means?




And could you possibly ever believe he is wrong? I doubt it, you agree with him too much.



According to God, he isn't. Wether he is right according to you really doesn't matter.



Are you sorry for being judgemental or for being a hypocrite about being judgemental?

I can forgive you as far as your inaccruate judgements against me.



Um, no... no one has overgeneralized beanies misuse of Scriptures, nor his being a homo, nor his being an idolitor. So this rests soley with you.


You see Nin, there is no talking to people like you. I offer up an appology and you throw it back in my face. I admit that I was wrong, humbly, and you cant even admit that some one other then a christian might be right.

I said that earlier I didnt pitty you, but, now I really do. I feel bad that some one who is obviously very smart could be so closedminded. If I thought I would help I might continue to accknowledge you. But, there is no talking to you, even rationaly, because you are irrational even on the smallest of subjects.

You have my pitty. Even though in your next post you will most undoubtably say how much you distain every thing I've said and that you dont need my pitty. But, hey, I guess I will have to stoo answering a fool acording to her folly.

Granite
June 3rd, 2005, 02:14 PM
Just a question, and not sure if anyone'll know...

Can you name a single country in, say, the 20th century that enacted anti-homosexual laws and ordinances? And if so, could you examine the effects of these laws?

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 02:16 PM
Sure, Germany, in the nineteen thirties, they round up Jews and homosexuals and every one else they could, put them into camps and killed them by the millions. They also exterminated the old, the sick, the feable minded, all those that need help and care were killed by the millions to make way for the master race.

Granite
June 3rd, 2005, 02:18 PM
Sure, Germany, in the nineteen thirties, they round up Jews and homosexuals and every one else they could, put them into camps and killed them by the millions. They also exterminated the old, the sick, the feable minded, all those that need help and care were killed by the millions to make way for the master race.

...with the exception of the Nazis. That's too easy.

I'm honestly just curious if there was any nation in the 20th century that enacted anti-homosexual laws, or really ENFORCED the laws they had on the books. If so, what was the effectiveness of said laws.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 02:19 PM
Okay, Po Pot, Chairmen Mao, the list is endless.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 02:20 PM
Hey, Turbo, still waiting for an answer on my post.

Granite
June 3rd, 2005, 02:22 PM
Okay, Po Pot, Chairmen Mao, the list is endless.

I'm not sure that the Maoists or Khmer Rouge persecuted homosexuals specifically.

The reason I'm asking is, I don't know if there's any historical precedent for this anti-gay backlash in America. In past societies where homosexuality was accepted I'm not aware of real opposition to granting them "rights" or what have you.

Balder
June 3rd, 2005, 02:22 PM
Which is what when it's boiled right down?

I guess what you are able to see will depend on your "reduction" process.

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 02:28 PM
You see Nin, there is no talking to people like you. I offer up an appology and you throw it back in my face.

No, I didn't, I accepted it as far as I could. I wanted to know what you were apologizing for, surely it wasn't for being judgemental.


I admit that I was wrong, humbly, and you cant even admit that some one other then a christian might be right.

Perhaps you misunderstood what I was asking. If you were apologizing for being judgemental, how can I forgive you for that? I wasn't holding it against you to begin with. About the only thing I could hold against you was when you judged me inaccurately. So if that really wasn't what your were sorry for doing, my forgiveness won't be worth a whole lot now will it?


I said that earlier I didnt pitty you, but, now I really do. I feel bad that some one who is obviously very smart could be so closedminded. If I thought I would help I might continue to accknowledge you. But, there is no talking to you, even rationaly, because you are irrational even on the smallest of subjects.

Once again, if lying to beanieboy, or you, is what earns your respect or sympathy (like I want any) or your acknowledgement, I don't want it.

Gee, and all I wanted to know was what you were apologizing for....


You have my pitty.

Great! Wonder how much I can get for it on eBay :)


Even though in your next post you will most undoubtably say how much you distain every thing I've said and that you dont need my pitty. But, hey, I guess I will have to stoo answering a fool acording to her folly.

Well, guess I can chalk this last paragraph up to another of your unrealized hopes. Much like your fist assement of the tone in the replies you expected to get.....

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 02:30 PM
I guess what you are able to see will depend on your "reduction" process.

And I realize wordy posts impress you.

beanieboy
June 3rd, 2005, 02:30 PM
Just a question, and not sure if anyone'll know...

Can you name a single country in, say, the 20th century that enacted anti-homosexual laws and ordinances? And if so, could you examine the effects of these laws?

Afghanistan, Iran and Saudia Arabia.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 02:34 PM
No, I didn't, I accepted it as far as I could. I wanted to know what you were apologizing for, surely it wasn't for being judgemental.



Perhaps you misunderstood what I was asking. If you were apologizing for being judgemental, how can I forgive you for that? I wasn't holding it against you to begin with. About the only thing I could hold against you was when you judged me inaccurately. So if that really wasn't what your were sorry for doing, my forgiveness won't be worth a whole lot now will it?



Once again, if lying to beanieboy, or you, is what earns your respect or sympathy (like I want any) or your acknowledgement, I don't [i]want[i] it.

Gee, and all I wanted to know was what you were apologizing for....



Great! Wonder how much I can get for it on eBay :)



Well, guess I can chalk this last paragraph up to another of your unrealized hopes. Much like your fist assement of the tone in the replies you expected to get.....


I was appologizing for the whole lot, but you cant just exept that. You would rather be sarcastic. Sorry for the troubles Nin. But when you feel that you can have a rational conversation and not resort to petty insults and name calling, let me know, till then, good luck and may the gods and goddess bless you in your comings and goings.

Balder
June 3rd, 2005, 02:35 PM
Not typically, Nin. If I am impressed by wordy posts, it's based on what the words convey and not their quantity.

Turbo
June 3rd, 2005, 03:05 PM
Turbo... Do you not know that muslims revear Jesus as a great prophet?So? They reject that He is God become flesh, that he died for our sins (they teach that Jesus wasn't even crucifed, that Judas Iscariot was crucified in his place), and naturally they reject his resurrection.
Do you not know that most muslims follow the Ten commandments? They may try, but that won't save them. They are still sinners who need the Savior.
How about Jews? Are they also going to hell?The ones that reject Christ are.


He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18



They follow the Ten commandments



for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23

The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 1 Corinthians 15:56

but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone [Christ]. Romans 9:31-32




and believe in God. To reject Christ is to reject God.

Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you--Moses, in whom you trust. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. John 5:45-46

You said you've read the Bible? This is pretty basic stuff.

temple2006
June 3rd, 2005, 03:15 PM
quote:
beanie....no one takes your posts regarding the Bible seriously.

I do.

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 03:16 PM
So? They reject that He is God become flesh, that he died for our sins (they teach that Jesus wasn't even crucifed, that Judas Iscariot was crucified in his place), and naturally they reject his resurrection.They may try, but that won't save them. They are still sinners who need the Savior. The ones that reject Christ are.


He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18






for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23

The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 1 Corinthians 15:56

but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone [Christ]. Romans 9:31-32



To reject Christ is to reject God.

Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you--Moses, in whom you trust. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. John 5:45-46

You said you've read the Bible? This is pretty basic stuff.


So, according to you, every Jew who believes in God, follows the Ten Commandments and lives a rightious life is going to hell. That is what your saying right?

So, for thousands of years, they had it right, they were Gods chosen people, they were in for life, and now, because christians say that the messiah has come and gone, and they didnt buy it for very plausible reasons, they are now going to hell. That is what your saying right?

Have you ever asked a Jew why they dont believe Jesus was the son of god? You'll get a very interesting response.

Then again, I wouldnt expect you to do that.

kmoney
June 3rd, 2005, 03:38 PM
This goes out to all the Christians posting in this post...Do any of you actually think that this thread, that talking about what thing you hate most about someone is Christlike?

Balder asked basically the same question but I haven't seen anyone address it.

Is it wrong to rebuke someone in sin? No.
Is it wrong to rebuke someone who is misquoting the bible? No
Is it wrong to rebuke someone who is using scripture to justify sinful behavior? No.

What I think IS wrong is the way in which it is being done in this thread and many others on this forum. Like I said before, I think it is disgusting that Christians have this thread, and seem to justify it. I have heard Christians say that people get offended too easily, that may be true and I agree with that for the most part, but what is going here is indefensible. I will not and can not say that you don't truly care about beanieboy's (and others like him on this forum) salvation and whether or not he is going to hell because I have no idea what is in your heart, but I will say this: Your actions say you don't. Do you realize that you are giving NOTHING for the unsaved to look at you and want to be like you. I understand that as Christians we are not to look for man's approval, but God's, but I ask you this: Do you think God looks at this thread and others like it with approval? Do you think He is glad that you are rebuking a sinner? or do you think he is sad that the "Christians" on this site aren't showing his love and that people are using certain events in his life (calling the pharisees vipers, calling the phoneocian woman a dog) to justify their outright hatred?

Some of you may argue that Beanieboy has consistently not repented of his sin and consistently misused the bible, therefore it's justified to rebuke him so strongly, but I say it's still not. In fact, I say that what you say to beanieboy is beyond rebuke and is straightout degradation. What did Jesus tell the apostles to do if they weren't welcomed or if people didn't repent at a city or house? They were supposed to leave and shake the dust of their sandals as they left. For those who believe that threads like this are justified because you think beanieboy has not repented, I would ask you to think about this. Did Jesus tell the disciples to talk about how much they hate the people? No. They are to move on and go to the next town.

If you ignore this post I will ask one thing, Can anyone who calls themself a Christian justify this thread? I think not.

Beanieboy has confronted people about not seeing fruit of the spirit in you because of what you say to him, you generally just avoid the question by moving towards the fact that he is a homosexual and therefore is in sin and isn't a Christian and can't use scripture or try to confront you about something. Well I am a Christian and I am asking you the same thing....Do you think the fruit of the spirit are evidenced in you and your actions and your words?

and one last thing, for anyone who thinks that I approve of his homosexuality and seek to justify it I am in no way doing that. I believe homosexuality is a sin just like you all.

Kevin

TheSearcher
June 3rd, 2005, 03:54 PM
This goes out to all the Christians posting in this post...Do any of you actually think that this thread, that talking about what thing you hate most about someone is Christlike?

Balder asked basically the same question but I haven't seen anyone address it.

Is it wrong to rebuke someone in sin? No.
Is it wrong to rebuke someone who is misquoting the bible? No
Is it wrong to rebuke someone who is using scripture to justify sinful behavior? No.

What I think IS wrong is the way in which it is being done in this thread and many others on this forum. Like I said before, I think it is disgusting that Christians have this thread, and seem to justify it. I have heard Christians say that people get offended too easily, that may be true and I agree with that for the most part, but what is going here is indefensible. I will not and can not say that you don't truly care about beanieboy's (and others like him on this forum) salvation and whether or not he is going to hell because I have no idea what is in your heart, but I will say this: Your actions say you don't. Do you realize that you are giving NOTHING for the unsaved to look at you and want to be like you. I understand that as Christians we are not to look for man's approval, but God's, but I ask you this: Do you think God looks at this thread and others like it with approval? Do you think He is glad that you are rebuking a sinner? or do you think he is sad that the "Christians" on this site aren't showing his love and that people are using certain events in his life (calling the pharisees vipers, calling the phoneocian woman a dog) to justify their outright hatred?

Some of you may argue that Beanieboy has consistently not repented of his sin and consistently misused the bible, therefore it's justified to rebuke him so strongly, but I say it's still not. In fact, I say that what you say to beanieboy is beyond rebuke and is straightout degradation. What did Jesus tell the apostles to do if they weren't welcomed or if people didn't repent at a city or house? They were supposed to leave and shake the dust of their sandals as they left. For those who believe that threads like this are justified because you think beanieboy has not repented, I would ask you to think about this. Did Jesus tell the disciples to talk about how much they hate the people? No. They are to move on and go to the next town.

If you ignore this post I will ask one thing, Can anyone who calls themself a Christian justify this thread? I think not.

Beanieboy has confronted people about not seeing fruit of the spirit in you because of what you say to him, you generally just avoid the question by moving towards the fact that he is a homosexual and therefore is in sin and isn't a Christian and can't use scripture or try to confront you about something. Well I am a Christian and I am asking you the same thing....Do you think the fruit of the spirit are evidenced in you and your actions and your words?

and one last thing, for anyone who thinks that I approve of his homosexuality and seek to justify it I am in no way doing that. I believe homosexuality is a sin just like you all.

Kevin


Wow, I didnt think it possible, but, hey, that was very well writen and I would like to thank you.

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 04:41 PM
Is it wrong to rebuke someone in sin? No.
Is it wrong to rebuke someone who is misquoting the bible? No
Is it wrong to rebuke someone who is using scripture to justify sinful behavior? No.

What I think IS wrong is the way in which it is being done in this thread and many others on this forum.


Ok, I look forward to seeing how you are called to witness to beanieboy :)

kmoney
June 3rd, 2005, 05:04 PM
Wow, I didnt think it possible, but, hey, that was very well writen and I would like to thank you.

Thank you.

kmoney
June 3rd, 2005, 05:06 PM
Ok, I look forward to seeing how you are called to witness to beanieboy :)

Nineveh,

I didn't say that I was called to specifically witness to beanieboy. Also, personally I don't think of online forums as a very conducive way to minister to someone, but I'm sure it's possible.

and was your post intended to be sarcastic? Because that's what I assumed.

Kevin

Nineveh
June 3rd, 2005, 05:18 PM
Nineveh,

I didn't say that I was called to specifically witness to beanieboy. Also, personally I don't think of online forums as a very conducive way to minister to someone, but I'm sure it's possible.

and was your post intended to be sarcastic? Because that's what I assumed.

You know what "as$-u-me" means right? :)

No, I am serious. While you seem to have judged and found fault with every person on this thread (at TOL?) who has tried to witness to beanieboy, perhaps you would edify us all as to the "proper" way. Especially on these points:

Is it wrong to rebuke someone in sin? No.
Is it wrong to rebuke someone who is misquoting the bible? No
Is it wrong to rebuke someone who is using scripture to justify sinful behavior? No.

kmoney
June 3rd, 2005, 05:39 PM
You know what "as$-u-me" means right? :)

No, I am serious. While you seem to have judged and found fault with every person on this thread (at TOL?) who has tried to witness to beanieboy, perhaps you would edify us all as to the "proper" way. Especially on these points:

Is it wrong to rebuke someone in sin? No.
Is it wrong to rebuke someone who is misquoting the bible? No
Is it wrong to rebuke someone who is using scripture to justify sinful behavior? No.

Nineveh,

I have no doubt that people did try to witness to beanieboy in ways other than what I am "finding fault" in. I apologize for not recognizing that more. Though, I feel I did address it at least a little when I said that some people may feel that threads like this are justifiable because he has continually not repented. I acknowledge that probably many people in this forum, including some that I have "judged" in this thread, have tried to witness to beanieboy in a loving and patient way and that is great(no sarcasm), BUT I take nothing back from what I said concerning this thread and other posts similar to it.

You tell me to "edify" you all by showing you the proper way to witness to beanieboy. I did not mean to come off as arrogant and like I know the perfect and Godly way to witness to people, in general and in those points. There is no singular "proper" way to witness to someone, but it shouldn't take too much to realize that threads like this are completely wrong and are not productive at all.

Kevin

Mr. 5020
June 3rd, 2005, 05:41 PM
This goes out to all the Christians posting in this post...
You're the only one posting in that post.

kmoney
June 3rd, 2005, 05:42 PM
You're the only one posting in that post.

haha, you are very correct. I meant to say "thread"......