Real Science Friday Week: The Pre-Flood World

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Stripe

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RSF Week: The Pre-Flood World

This is the show from Wednesday March 16th, 2011.

SUMMARY:

* Conditions on the Pre-Flood Earth: A member of Fred William's forum at EvolutionFairytale.com wrote and asked Bob and Fred to discuss on air what the world would have been like before the global flood. So the guys talk about the:
- massive remnants of arctic circle forests
- remains of millions of mammoths in the arctic circle
- the earth's rapidly declining magnetic field
- the rich oxygen content in air bubbles trapped in ancient amber
- the canopy theory
- no thorns and thistles prior to Adam's fall
- the Earth later rolling on its axis.

* Earth's Roll on its Axis: This last item explains a lot. All that arctic circle life, in its forests, and its plant and animal life grew on a more temperate part of the Earth that later rolled northward to the arctic circle. This explains how there was enough light, liquid water, and warmth for that all that biomass to accumulate. And on this Real Science Friday show co-hosts Fred Williams and Bob Enyart make the first-ever RSF prediction!




* RSF Prediction #2 on Fossilized Mutations: When a systematic assessment of mutations in the fossil record is made (such as with teeth, skeletons, etc.), it will show far fewer mutations in the fossil record as compared to modern mutations. This will demonstrate the lower mutation load that flows naturally as predicted by creationists..

* Today's Continents vs. Yesterday: Nearly a mile of sedimentary depostis cover continents today, and they contain billions of dead things laid down by water all over the earth. How were things different before the global flood? Here are some examples.

* Oxygen Content: Secular scientists have found air bubbles in fossilized sap (amber) and the oxygen content is typically measured as much higher than it is today. Hyperbaric chambers today are used for growing plants and to treat human patients, indicating that this would be a healthier environment.

* Magnetic Field: Dr. Russell Humphreys from Los Angeles National Laboratories has shown that the magnetic field of the earth was once much stronger, which provided greater protection for life on earth from the radioactivity of the Sun. And with the magnetic field's rapid decay rate, when you reverse that decay by taking into account the current half-life of our magnetic field, the results provide evidence that the earth is not millions of years old.

* Mummified Arctic Forest and Frozen Mammoths: Scientists report the existence of an enormous forest of mummified trees in the arctic circle. Dozens of frozen mammoth discoveries along with massive tusk deposits indicate that millions of mammoths lived in what today is the arctic circle. They couldn't survive there today. Why not? They didn't have wool; they didn't have oil glands under their skin; they would loose too much warmth from their trunks; they require a hundred pounds of vegetation per day; and yet the arctic doesn't get enough sunlight for all that vegetation to grow; and in the winter time, surface water is frozen typically to three feet deep.

* Thorns and Thistles: Prior to the Fall, there were no thorns and thistles and so the Earth freely gave to man his sustenance. Yet God designed the Earth so that if men sinned, it would become much more difficult for men to earn a living. Why? As shown by so many rock stars, lottery winners, and celebrities, when we have so much material wealth that we don't need one another, it's often easier to break up then to work through our problems. So, as Barbara Streisand sang, "People who need people are the luckiest people in the world." And either than the fact that luck does not exist, this thought was one thing of value she contributed to mankind.

* Post-show Bonus Topic -- Painless Childbirth: Pain in childbirth is a result of sin. For as a result of Adam and Eve's sin, to the woman God said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; in pain you shall bring forth children..." (Gen. 3:16). After being created on the sixth day (Gen. 1:27), Adam sinned so quickly that his wife did not even have time to conceive a child before the Fall. However, if Eve had given birth before the Fall, she would not have experienced pain in childbirth. Why not? As a result of Lucifer tempting Eve, God then put enmity between him and mankind. And as a result of Eve's sin, God multiplied the length of time for human gestation. (He did this most likely by a factor of 1.5, from six months, six being the biblical number for man, to nine months, nine being a number for judgement.) Sin and death destroyed the perfection of the cosmos itself, for "the creation was subjected to futility" (Rom. 8:21) and as the Apostle Paul continued, "For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now" (Rom. 8:22). So after man's sin, the Earth became a hostile place to live. This would be especially true for tiny human newborns who would therefore have a terribly high mortality rate. So God designed Adam and Eve so that if they sinned, children would grow much larger in the womb (as compared to many other animals, and as compared to His original design). As God said to the woman, "I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; in pain you shall bring for children" (Gen. 3:16). For by a typical figure of speech, using the beginning of something to represent the whole, the term conception is a metaphor meaning gestation, in the same way that an author with three titles on the best-seller list doesn't have simply three "titles" on that list, but three books! By multiplying a woman's gestation, her baby would have a much greater chance of surviving in our hostile world, but this comes at the expense of mom's discomfort and pain.

Today’s Resource: Get a science DVD, book, or written, audio or video debate from us and this will help BEL continue to reach people with our Real Science Friday broadcasts! Have you browsed through our Science Department in the KGOV Store? Check out especially Walt Brown’s In the Beginning! You’ll also love Dr. Guillermo Gonzalez’ Privileged Planet (clip), and Illustra Media’s Unlocking the Mystery of Life (clip)! You can consider our BEL Science Pack; Bob Enyart’s Age of the Earth Debate; Bob's debate about Junk DNA with famous evolutionist Dr. Eugenie Scott; and the superb kids' radio programming, Jonathan Park: The Adventure Begins! And Bob strongly recommends that you subscribe to CMI’s tremendous Creation magazine and Ken Ham's Answers magazine!  Or to order call BEL at 1-800-8Enyart.

* Special Editions of Real Science Friday:
- BEL's famous List of Not-So-Old Things
- Bob's debate with Christian Darwinist British author James Hannam
- PZ Myers blogs against Real Science Friday so we hit back with the PZ Trochlea Challenge
- Waiting for Darwin's Other Shoe: Science mag cover: Darwin Was Wrong on the Tree of Life
- Microbiologist in Studio: Creation Research Society Quarterly editor on new genetic findings
- Caterpillar Kills Atheism: describe how a bug could evolve to liquefy itself and then build itself into a flying creature
- And see the RSF Offer of $2,000 to get 16 letters of the alphabet in their correct places; $500 paid in 1998; $1,500 in 2010...

For our RSF Friends: in case you miss other BEL programs, here are some of the atheists Bob Enyart has debated:
- ABC's Reginald Finley, called The Infidel Guy, from ABC's Wife Swap program; 3-26-07;
- TheologyOnLine's psychologist Zakath in a 10-round moderated written online debate, also available in soft cover;
- John Henderson who wrote the book God.com 6-15-2006;
- Leading anti-creationist Eugenie Scott of the Nat'l Center for Science Education, exhumed 5-6-05;
- Michael Shermer, an editor with Scientific American and the Skeptic Society who in this famous 73-second excerpt on BEL denied that the sun is a light, illustrating that it's tough debating atheists when they're hesitant to admit to even the most obvious common ground. 8-28-03
 
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Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Did you know that before the flood the core of the Earth was cold?
 

Alate_One

Well-known member
Magnetite is number one.

So why don't Mars or Venus have a magnetic field if spinning magnetized iron is all you need?

And if the pre-flood earth had a much weaker magnetic field, all life on earth would have been constantly irradiated by cosmic rays, causing all kinds of damage to life.

And of course, what evidence do you have for any of this other than Stripe's favorite "Just so" stories?
 

fool

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
I'll play devils advocate.

So why don't Mars or Venus have a magnetic field if spinning magnetized iron is all you need?
They must not have enough?

And if the pre-flood earth had a much weaker magnetic field, all life on earth would have been constantly irradiated by cosmic rays, causing all kinds of damage to life.
Canopy theory
And of course, what evidence do you have for any of this other than Stripe's favorite "Just so" stories?
The Bible!
 

Alate_One

Well-known member
I'll play devils advocate.
Okay :)

They must not have enough?
Venus is almost identical in size to earth. And how does that explain the jovian planets (Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune) that are gas giants rather than rocky and filled with iron all having magnetic fields that are dipoles like earth?

The Bible!
The Bible says nothing about magnetic fields, vapor canopies or anything else along those lines.
 

Stripe

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So why don't Mars or Venus have a magnetic field if spinning magnetized iron is all you need?
They do. :plain:

How do magnetic field reversals work under that model?
Magnetic reversals don't happen. :)

how does that explain the jovian planets (Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune) that are gas giants rather than rocky and filled with iron all having magnetic fields that are dipoles like earth?
Magnetite is number one.
 

Alate_One

Well-known member
So when you said Mars and Venus don't have magnetic fields, you were wrong, right?
In the same sense that you were wrong saying magnetic reversals don't happen.

Mars' magnetic field is incredibly weak as to be almost nonexistent, Venus' is very different from earth's and also much weaker (~ 10-5 times that of Earth). The other planets I listed as well as earth (and the sun) have dipoles. The question is, what do all those celestial bodies have in common that gives them similar, and relatively stronger magnetic fields? It isn't magnetite . . .

They don't happen on Earth.
Except we have evidence they do . . . but of course Stripe sez so it must be so, right?
 

fool

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
The question is, what do all those celestial bodies have in common that gives them similar, and relatively stronger magnetic fields? It isn't magnetite . . .

Venus is almost identical in size to earth. And how does that explain the jovian planets (Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune) that are gas giants rather than rocky and filled with iron all having magnetic fields that are dipoles like earth?

So what do Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune have in common with the Earth that gives them a magnetoshere?
Is that the question?
I'm gonna guess........liquid cores?
 

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
In the same sense that you were wrong saying magnetic reversals don't happen.
Magnetic reversals don't happen (on Earth).

Mars and Venus don't have magnetospheres (on Earth).

Nah, doesn't work for me. I was right and you were wrong.

Mars' magnetic field is incredibly weak as to be almost nonexistent, Venus' is very different from earth's and also much weaker (~ 10-5 times that of Earth). The other planets I listed as well as earth (and the sun) have dipoles. The question is, what do all those celestial bodies have in common that gives them similar, and relatively stronger magnetic fields? It isn't magnetite . . .
Magnetic material. Of which magnetite is number one.

Unless you're hoping to have a magnetosphere without magnetic material. :chuckle:

So what do Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune have in common with the Earth that gives them a magnetoshere? Is that the question?
Close. You should qualify 'magnetosphere' with 'large'.
I'm gonna guess........liquid cores?
Actually it might be the solid core on Earth that is the source of our magnetism, but I reckon your answer is the best bet we have in response to your question.

Did you know our inner core rotates faster than the outer core?
 

Alate_One

Well-known member
Magnetic reversals don't happen (on Earth).

Mars and Venus don't have magnetospheres (on Earth).

Nah, doesn't work for me. I was right and you were wrong.
You took your stupid pills today didn't you?

Mars and Venus don't have magnetospheres (Like Earth's). :plain:


Magnetic material. Of which magnetite is number one.

Unless you're hoping to have a magnetosphere without magnetic material. :chuckle:
Gee, how do we know those other planets have magnetite? Let me guess cause they have magnetic fields? Can you say circular reasoning?
 
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