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webby
April 12th, 2002, 12:09 PM
There is one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.

There is one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father.

Through Him all things were made. For us and for our salvation He came down from heaven: by the Holy Spirit He became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man.

For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered death and was buried.

On the third day He rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory.

With His saints He will judge the living and the dead. And His kingdom will have no end.

There is one Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father. With the Father and the Son He is worshipped.

He has spoken through the prophets and through the Scriptures.
God established the Body of Christ into which the Holy Spirit baptizes every new believer.

God offers salvation by grace through faith alone in the resurrected Christ.
The Bible records the true history of man including that God created the heavens and the earth and everything in them in six literal days; only eight people survived a global flood; through great wonders God delivered Israel from Egypt; the prophets, Christ, and the apostles performed many miraculous deeds.

The Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, in their original state, are the inspired Word of God. God legislated morality out of love for His creation.
Men who reject God will suffer eternal damnation.

Christ commands His followers to rebuke and to judge with righteous judgment and to forgive those who repent. One day God will resurrect the dead, punish the unbelievers, and reward those whom He has justified with the life of the world to come.
Amen.

Pilgrimagain
May 9th, 2002, 03:55 PM
This is the first time I have read through the staement. Thanks for posting it. I don't agree with it 100% particularly as it gets to the end but it is well written and succinct as a statement of faith should be.

Goose
July 18th, 2002, 10:55 PM
Cool

Yxboom
August 4th, 2002, 10:43 AM
There is one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father.
As freak would put it very God of very GOd ;)


I don't agree with it 100% particularly as it gets to the end
I have read it 3 times now and mind you I will be checking periodically to find something I don't agree with since it isn't showing up now.

Yxboom
August 4th, 2002, 10:45 AM
Do you know if this is the statement of faith of Denver Bible Church as well?

Pilgrimagain
November 7th, 2002, 10:47 PM
bump...because yx deserves an answer.

Yxboom
November 27th, 2002, 05:12 PM
;)

Knight
November 27th, 2002, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by Yxboom
Do you know if this is the statement of faith of Denver Bible Church as well? yes... it is.

Yxboom
November 27th, 2002, 05:23 PM
DBC is sweet no doubt :thumb:

Calvinist
November 27th, 2002, 05:53 PM
I don't like having "in the space of six literal days" in it. Not saying I don't agree...

Knight
November 27th, 2002, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by Yxboom
DBC is sweet no doubt :thumb: Indeed. :up:

Yxboom
November 27th, 2002, 06:20 PM
You mean no clarification on God's exhaustive foreknowledge?

Knight
November 27th, 2002, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by Pilgrimagain
I don't agree with it 100%. If ya did... we would have to change it!!!

(just kidding!! ;))

Dee Dee Warren
November 27th, 2002, 07:16 PM
Cool.....

Solly
January 17th, 2003, 10:53 AM
Is this binding in some way? Do we implicitly accept it by being part of TOL, like user agreements on software?

Knight
January 17th, 2003, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by Solly
Is this binding in some way? Do we implicitly accept it by being part of TOL, like user agreements on software? Uhhhhh........ no.

The statement of faith is for "you" to know what "WE" at TOL believe.

Turbo
July 26th, 2003, 02:34 PM
How do we know for sure what the Webmaster/Knight/DBC means by "in the space of six literal days?":think:

Maybe it's symbolic.

coffeeman
August 10th, 2003, 02:09 PM
If we agree with the statement ....do we get free software?

Crow
August 10th, 2003, 02:14 PM
If we do, Knight owes me some software....whoops--didn't catch the six literal days part when I originally wrote this. I have to admit some doubt there.

Lucky
October 26th, 2003, 01:11 AM
Originally posted by Knight
The statement of faith is for "you" to know what "WE" at TOL believe.
Being more specific, is the "WE" you are referring to the Administrators as listed here (http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showgroups.php?s=)?

Lucky
October 27th, 2003, 05:46 PM
*ahem* :D

Knight
October 27th, 2003, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by Lucky8
Being more specific, is the "WE" you are referring to the Administrators as listed here (http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showgroups.php?s=)? Pretty much.

Knight
May 2nd, 2005, 09:35 PM
bump

godrulz
May 2nd, 2005, 09:42 PM
Six literal days is not in most statements of faith, but it is a good idea. If we doubt the literal interpretation of Genesis, we might have to doubt John also. Six long ages is problematic in light of science, grammar, and Genesis chronology.

The statement sounds like a paraphrase or compilation of historic creeds.

Lovejoy
May 2nd, 2005, 09:43 PM
Alright, we get to post on a piece of TOL history. Cool.

SOTK
May 2nd, 2005, 09:46 PM
I am complete agreement with the TOL Statement of Faith! :thumb:

Lighthouse
May 3rd, 2005, 12:36 AM
It seems to me that Jews believe in six literal days, since they observe the seventh day sabbath.:think:

Frank Ernest
May 3rd, 2005, 06:41 AM
Statement of Faith at ToL. Cool!

Gonna keep a copy.

MrsDearDelmar
May 3rd, 2005, 07:03 AM
I agree with the six literal days as well!!!

MrsDearDelmar
May 3rd, 2005, 07:07 AM
Christ commands His followers to rebuke and to judge with righteous judgment and to forgive those who repent.

It's a shame that not too many people, Christians or others, don't believe this or follow it like we are commanded to.

Frank Ernest
May 4th, 2005, 04:34 AM
I agree with the six literal days as well!!!

2Peter 3:8: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Aimiel
May 4th, 2005, 06:40 AM
I believe every word, and also believe that (had He wanted to) He could have made everything in six tenths of a nanosecond, without breaking a sweat. I think He took His time because it was more believeable for us. I will also add, for those who don't believe this statement of faith: Repent!!! The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

godrulz
May 4th, 2005, 07:18 AM
2Peter 3:8: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Simile: a comparison using like or as. A thousand years in God's everlasting duration is the same amount of time as 1000 years earth time. This verse is not a literal proof text to say that creation occurred over 6000 years. In light of eternity, a thousand years is a blink for God. For a man, it is many lifetimes. God's perception is different since He has existed forever. It seems forever for us that He has not returned. For Him, it is a moment.

Ages of creation is problematic from a literal view of Genesis 1 (you need light, food, water, etc. quickly or things would die off; the Genesis chronology also contradicts evolutionary theory).

beanieboy
May 4th, 2005, 07:35 AM
I don't like having "in the space of six literal days" in it. Not saying I don't agree...

How was it six literal days if the sun wasn't created until the 3rd "day"?
Did God have a watch?

godrulz
May 4th, 2005, 10:11 AM
How was it six literal days if the sun wasn't created until the 3rd "day"?
Did God have a watch?

God experienced succession, duration, sequence from all eternity. The MEASURE of earthly time for US relates to the sun and moon. Technically, hours pass even before creation. The first, second, and third 24 hour period (same Hebrew word used in Exodus for days relating to Sabbath keeping) had creation activity. Just because the sun was created later, does not mean the first days were not 24 hours. The measure of time can be done in various ways. It does not have to be by the sun. Chronology and sequence happened, with or without the sun. After the sun and man were created, then at some point we formalized our measure of preexisting time. God is not timeless, but exeriences and endless duration of time.

MrsDearDelmar
May 4th, 2005, 11:10 AM
Simile: a comparison using like or as. A thousand years in God's everlasting duration is the same amount of time as 1000 years earth time. This verse is not a literal proof text to say that creation occurred over 6000 years. In light of eternity, a thousand years is a blink for God. For a man, it is many lifetimes. God's perception is different since He has existed forever. It seems forever for us that He has not returned. For Him, it is a moment.

Ages of creation is problematic from a literal view of Genesis 1 (you need light, food, water, etc. quickly or things would die off; the Genesis chronology also contradicts evolutionary theory).

Thank you very much!!!! You beat me to it! It's like how long a year seems to a five year old, and how short it seems to a 40 or 60 year old person! :)

Zakath
May 4th, 2005, 11:12 AM
I find two things interesting about the TOL Statment of Faith...

1. That they felt the need to use the Nicene Creed and omit the FILIOQUE.

2. That they felt the need to add their own "pet doctrines" to an historic creed.

Perhaps they felt the Church Fathers weren't closely enough aligned with the Almighty...

godrulz
May 4th, 2005, 08:14 PM
I find two things interesting about the TOL Statment of Faith...

1. That they felt the need to use the Nicene Creed and omit the FILIOQUE.

2. That they felt the need to add their own "pet doctrines" to an historic creed.

Perhaps they felt the Church Fathers weren't closely enough aligned with the Almighty...


Filoque and Barth: http://www.leithart.com/archives/001158.php

The TOL statement does mention the procession of the Spirit.

Which pet doctrines are you referring to? I did not see Open Theism or Enyart ideas in the list.

Knight
May 4th, 2005, 10:35 PM
Perhaps they felt the Church Fathers weren't closely enough aligned with the Almighty...In some ways yes and in other ways no.

Not even many of the characters in the Bible itself were aligned with God's will, what makes you think the early church fathers would be any different?

Knight
May 4th, 2005, 10:37 PM
Filoque and Barth: http://www.leithart.com/archives/001158.php

The TOL statement does mention the procession of the Spirit.

Which pet doctrines are you referring to? I did not see Open Theism or Enyart ideas in the list.We share the same statement of faith with Denver Bible Church.

godrulz
May 4th, 2005, 11:57 PM
We share the same statement of faith with Denver Bible Church.


Zakath seems to think there is some unusual ideas beyond the creeds. I did not find the statement unorthodox.

Frank Ernest
May 5th, 2005, 06:00 AM
Simile: a comparison using like or as. A thousand years in God's everlasting duration is the same amount of time as 1000 years earth time. This verse is not a literal proof text to say that creation occurred over 6000 years. In light of eternity, a thousand years is a blink for God. For a man, it is many lifetimes. God's perception is different since He has existed forever. It seems forever for us that He has not returned. For Him, it is a moment.

Ages of creation is problematic from a literal view of Genesis 1 (you need light, food, water, etc. quickly or things would die off; the Genesis chronology also contradicts evolutionary theory).
Peter says be not ignorant of a simile? :darwinsm:

Good one! :down:

Frank Ernest
May 5th, 2005, 06:02 AM
In some ways yes and in other ways no.

Not even many of the characters in the Bible itself were aligned with God's will, what makes you think the early church fathers would be any different?
BINGO!

Zakath
May 5th, 2005, 06:03 AM
We share the same statement of faith with Denver Bible Church.
No surprises there... :nono:

Zakath
May 5th, 2005, 06:04 AM
... I did not find the statement unorthodox.No surprises there either... ;)

Zakath
May 5th, 2005, 06:09 AM
The TOL statement does mention the procession of the Spirit.Yes, but not in the sense and wording commonly understood in Western Christianity.


Which pet doctrines are you referring to?Implied Biblical literalism, for one, placing them in the ranks of fundamentalism.

Particularly interesting is that they are so focused on confrontation, rebuking, and judgement that they feel the need to make such conduct an article of faith. :box:


I did not see Open Theism or Enyart ideas in the list.Based on debates I've seen at denominational general conferences, such beliefs seem alienate many Christians. Open Theism has actually been called a heresy in some circles. Since DBC is a small group trying to make a name for itself, it's better for them that they don't mention such beliefs publicly.

godrulz
May 5th, 2005, 07:36 AM
Peter says be not ignorant of a simile? :darwinsm:

Good one! :down:

No. He is reminding the readers that in light of eternity, a delay in the Second Coming is not a denial of its eventual fulfillment. A simile, allegory, parable, etc. can convey truth as much as a didactic passage. God is patient, and so must we be. Are you prepared to excise all figures of speech from the Bible to follow a wooden literalism into heresy? Are you prepared to put 1000 years into every mention of the word 'day' or 'day' into the verses about the millennium? Just as Proverbs 8 is a personification of wisdom (not Christological, didactic passage), so the words 'like and as' can trigger a simile for comparison. If you want to be literal, the Second Coming should take place exactly on a 1000 year reference. The Daniel Tribulation is 7000 years long instead of 7 years, etc. No good exegete makes a doctrine on time and eternity from this Petrine 'proof text'. What is your problem? Is sozo messing with you to be contrary over little things?

Knight
May 5th, 2005, 10:13 AM
No surprises there... :nono:And therefore what?

Is it wrong for my website to share the statement of faith of the church I attend?

Zakath
May 5th, 2005, 10:17 AM
And therefore what?

Is it wrong for my website to share the statement of faith of the church I attend?
I think linking your website's "theological views" so closely to that of any particular church suggests a level of control that you may or may not intend.

But "it's your party, you can cry if you want to..." ;)

Zakath
May 5th, 2005, 10:58 AM
Hey, I just received three negative reps in 10 minutes. All from this thread. I must have hit a nerve. :chuckle:

Granite
May 5th, 2005, 11:00 AM
Hey, I just received three negative reps in 10 minutes. All from this thread. I must have hit a nerve. :chuckle:

:chuckle:

Doesn't take long, does it.

Nothing too surprising in the statement of faith, pretty much biz as usual.

P.S. Just repped ya. We do what we can!

Zakath
May 5th, 2005, 11:06 AM
Make that 4 negatives and one positive. :thumb:

Nice to know I'm making a difference. :D

Poly
May 5th, 2005, 11:45 AM
I think linking your website's "theological views" so closely to that of any particular church suggests a level of control that you may or may not intend.

But "it's your party, you can cry if you want to..." ;)

Let me get this straight. He chooses to go to a church where he theologically agrees and then he's being controlled when he decides to tie in those views on his website? So what's he supposed to do, promote theological view that he doesn't agree with in order to show that he's not being controlled? :kookoo:

You're really graspin' there, Zakath.

Knight
May 5th, 2005, 12:05 PM
Hey, I just received three negative reps in 10 minutes. All from this thread. I must have hit a nerve. :chuckle:Maybe because you are an idiot?

Just a thought.

Knight
May 5th, 2005, 12:07 PM
I think linking your website's "theological views" so closely to that of any particular church suggests a level of control that you may or may not intend.Those ARE my theological views you knob!

Are you intentionally trying to be a brainless fool?

Zakath
May 5th, 2005, 12:10 PM
Let me get this straight. He chooses to go to a church where he theologically agrees and then he's being controlled when he decides to tie in those views on his website? So what's he supposed to do, promote theological view that he doesn't agree with in order to show that he's not being controlled?
Perhaps just not make such a big thing out of the correspondence between the two sets of views...

Zakath
May 5th, 2005, 12:11 PM
Those ARE my theological views you knob!Knob?

:chuckle:


Are you intentionally trying to be a brainless fool?Merely trying to keep you all company... :)

Zakath
May 5th, 2005, 12:12 PM
Maybe because you are an idiot?

Just a thought.
Maybe because I ticked some people off by poking at their guru, St. Bob the Broadcaster.

That's alright, I can handle the truth. The issue is, can you folks do so? :think:

Knight
May 5th, 2005, 12:13 PM
Perhaps just not make such a big thing out of the correspondence between the two sets of views..."Big thing"?????

I think that's the first time I have ever stated that the two statements are the same. And even then I don't think I made a "Big thing" out of it. But you really don't care about that do you?

You are more interested in being a flaming retard.

Knight
May 5th, 2005, 12:15 PM
Maybe because I ticked some people off by poking at their guru, St. Bob the Broadcaster. Or possibly because you are saying some incredibly stupid things on this thread.

Zakath
May 5th, 2005, 12:16 PM
"Big thing"?????

I think that's the first time I have ever stated that the two statements are the same. And even then I don't think I made a "Big thing" out of it. But you really don't care about that do you?Sure I do. I'm interested in what you think... and more importantly in getting you to think.


You are more interested in being a flaming retard.Sticks and stones, laddie. Sticks and stones... :chuckle:

Poly
May 5th, 2005, 12:18 PM
... and more importantly in getting you to think.



:darwinsm:

Zakath
May 5th, 2005, 12:18 PM
Now up to six negative reps!

Calling all Enyartians!

St. Bob's reputation is in danger from evil old Zakath.

Rally to the cause and eliminate Zak's rep points!

Time to mock and roll!

Knight
May 5th, 2005, 12:19 PM
:zakath: = :loser:

Zakath
May 5th, 2005, 12:19 PM
:darwinsm:Yes, Poly. I know that's an unbelievable stretch for some of you. But if you tried it, after the initial pain of activating unused neural paths, you might find it helpful. :thumb:

Zakath
May 5th, 2005, 12:20 PM
:zakath: = :loser:
Rendered you speechless, eh Tinman?

Zakath
May 5th, 2005, 12:22 PM
Up to eight negative reps...

Freak
May 5th, 2005, 03:02 PM
"
You are more interested in being a flaming retard. :zakath: + :skeptic: = :flamer: (Zakatheist)

Knight
May 5th, 2005, 03:05 PM
Up to eight negative reps...All deserved.

* general observations... *
Zakath today was not a good day for you. You said some really stupid things.
* /general observations... *

godrulz
May 5th, 2005, 04:09 PM
I think linking your website's "theological views" so closely to that of any particular church suggests a level of control that you may or may not intend.

But "it's your party, you can cry if you want to..." ;)

It is a fairly generic statement based on other similar statements. Why reinvent the wheel?

godrulz
May 5th, 2005, 04:15 PM
Up to eight negative reps...

I do not think people should use the rep system punitively. We should give some thought and save commendations and concerns for content.

Charity
September 5th, 2005, 01:19 AM
GREETINGS:
Can we look into the old testerment first concerning those who looked to the coming of the christ, that there souls may be saved, those who feared the lord and looked apon his name. Still going to dust and not yet receiving there promise. Luke :2 68 Blessed be the lord god of Isreal; for he has visited and redemed his people and has raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of David.
Books were opened and judgement made concerning those who beleived on his name This is an event that happened in period as Matthew :27.51 the graves open and many rise. this can only have taken place due to a Judgment.
Danial: 12 And many of them who slept in the dust of the earth awake some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting torment.
Very clear that this is not yet a period of perfection , people still needing to be made rightous One would asume perfection on a rising soul, maybe not so , as some rising heading to destruction .
1 Corinthians : paul starts with the comon beleif the cross all beleive that christ died and rose again three days later, he has there ears now then he includes this resurrection of life in conjuntion with the crucifixtion and rising again,
We all agree that christ should be the first man to rise from the dead, one problem how can some one that has not risen yet rise others from the dead,
lazerth and others Moses he has to be the first , even if you thougt they were sleeping still he is the firstfruits of them that slept; still first;;
( christ said I am the resurection of life )
I call this a veiled coming that sould be found only by his called and chosen .
1 theory= to extend to a future experiance, or
2 = to go back and rise him for those before, having not to pervert Gods grace to them and alow them perish ,
1 corinthians 15: 17&18 so if christ be not risen then neither are the dead .so before any dead apear he would have to be dead and back for god is not a lier . Concerning the elected one, whos soul will be made an offering to justfy many his soul will see his seed,
Reverlation 5 The Lamb opening the seals in the presance of god and hevenly hosts the REDEMED !!!!! praising him for he is worthy to open the seals,
5th seal they are still waiting for the rest of the 144000 to be completed having white robs given to them.
6th seal numbers complete
Reverlation:7:17The lamb feeds them now and leads them unto the living fountains of water:
Reverlation 22.17 And the spirit and the bride say, come and let him that heareth say And him that is athirst come. and whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. clear that the lamb before opening seals had completed in redeming souls, later in 6th seal he leads to the life giving water. .
MY Thoughts
The cleaner came : made a contract that he would clean our room so we shut the door and went and slept in another room waiting for his coming,
We grew old and told our children the cleaner is coming, they grew old and many generations passed in wait off the cleaner.
One day a child found the contract and read ,There are some here now that will not pass away before they see my coming, so the child ran out side past the garded door to the window and peered through, at that moment he had come for him .
The kingdom of god cometh not by observation:
Neither shall they say Lo here Lo there
for behold the kingdom of god is withinyou.
and he said to the disciples,
The days will come, when ye shall desire
to see one of the days of the son of man,
and ye shall not see it.
Having seen that the promise to the old testerment people was his coming,.as simple as it sounds some one cant leave unless they have come first
John 16 28 I come forth from the father , and am come into the world AGAIN, I leave the world and go to the father .
his deciples said unto him, Lo speakest no proverb.
Now are we sure that thou knowest all things,
and needest not that man should ask thee by this
We believe that thou camest forth from god.
Jesus answered them, Do ye NOW believe?
Other interesting verses He whom god rose from the dead man have taken and hung on a tree,
Though we preach God rose christ from the dead we are found to be false witness and our preaching is vain,
Dont tell anyone of the vison untill the son of man be risen from the dead AGAIN ,

Remember reverlations verses as they read the first Lamb praised for redeming those , second Lamb feeds and leads to the fountains of water, and those who will, will follow, god dosnt put things back to frount we do
Some coming verses may refure to a coming of relization. So he would not need to come as a theif , John 16 31
I have come to get that witch was lost, that one goes back,
We cant turn up at the wedding feast if we have the dates wrong and that is exactley what the Antichrists are all about,
Even confuse you as to clothing yourself ready.They only prevent his coming for you


2 Thess 2 and you perish not from lack of trying but lack of understanding..



Charity

Adam
September 5th, 2005, 01:31 PM
eh? :confused:

Charity
September 5th, 2005, 10:08 PM
eh? :confused:


I ask. . . Do we need to put Christ on the cross to make ourselves a resurection ? It would seem we could be joining those who say He is not the resurrection of life crucify Him.





Charity

Charity
September 8th, 2005, 03:07 PM
I ask. . . Do we need to put Christ on the cross to make ourselves a resurection ? It would seem we could be joining those who say He is not the resurrection of life crucify Him.





Charity
Mathew 27 .19
When he was set down on the judgement seat, his wife sent unto him, saying,
Have nothing to do with that just man;for i have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him.
But the cheif preiests and elders, PERSUADED the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.
The governor answered and said unto them, Whether of twain, will ye that I release unto you? They said, Barabbas.
Pilate said unto them,What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ?They all say unto him, Let him be crucified.
And the governor said, Why what evil hath he done?But they cried out more saying, Let him be crucified.
When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took Water, washed his hands before the multitude, saying I am inocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it,
Then answered the people , and said His blood be on us, and on our CHILDREN
Paul changed sides , so can we, understanding is to depart from evil.


Charity.

Frank Ernest
September 8th, 2005, 03:39 PM
I do not think people should use the rep system punitively. We should give some thought and save commendations and concerns for content.
:darwinsm: I see the UN Committee for Reputation Assignment Propriety (aka UNCRAP) has convened.

Aimiel
October 18th, 2005, 01:57 PM
Maybe we should have all members who wish to 'profess' Christianity take the TOL Statement of Faith seriously enough to agree with it. Anyone who doesn't shouldn't be allowed to pretend that they are Christian, at least on TOL.

koban
October 18th, 2005, 02:28 PM
How on earth would you enforce that?

Aimiel
October 18th, 2005, 02:35 PM
Simple, ask the Christians on TOL to report anyone whose profile proclaims, "Christian," who isn't posting threads which are in agreement with the doctrine stated in the Statement of Faith. If they don't retract their post, they'll have to be changed to something other than Christian, until they accpet the tenets of the Christian faith.

SOTK
October 18th, 2005, 02:43 PM
:think:

Crow
October 18th, 2005, 02:48 PM
Maybe we should have all members who wish to 'profess' Christianity take the TOL Statement of Faith seriously enough to agree with it. Anyone who doesn't shouldn't be allowed to pretend that they are Christian, at least on TOL.

So, do you think we should kick Old Earth Creationists off the Christian list?

kmoney
October 18th, 2005, 02:50 PM
Simple, ask the Christians on TOL to report anyone whose profile proclaims, "Christian," who isn't posting threads which are in agreement with the doctrine stated in the Statement of Faith. If they don't retract their post, they'll have to be changed to something other than Christian, until they accpet the tenets of the Christian faith.
Could they call themselves "Christian(other)"?
or do you want them to completely use another category?

Aimiel
October 18th, 2005, 02:53 PM
So, do you think we should kick Old Earth Creationists off the Christian list?If they don't line up, they're not enduring sound doctrine, they ought not to be allowed to claim the name of Jesus.

Aimiel
October 18th, 2005, 02:54 PM
Could they call themselves "Christian(other)"?
or do you want them to completely use another category?There's too many (Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Branch Davidians, etc.) who would abuse the Christian (other) category. I don't even think it belongs. Either you're Christian, or you've accepted un-sound doctrine as Christianity. That's what I think.

SOTK
October 18th, 2005, 02:58 PM
Do the moderators have to completely subscribe to the TOL statement of faith to become moderators?

kmoney
October 18th, 2005, 03:00 PM
There's too many (Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Branch Davidians, etc.) who would abuse the Christian (other) category. I don't even think it belongs. Either you're Christian, or you've accepted un-sound doctrine as Christianity. That's what I think.
While I think your idea is a potentially good one I'm not sure how it would work. If they don't just use the "other" part of Christian we'd have to have a bunch more names and even then some people just wouldn't fit any so we'd have to keep the "other" category. I guess from looking at the Statement of Faith the biggest problem would maybe be, like Crow brought up, old earth vs. new earth. Other than that most people probably don't deny things in it.

Crow
October 18th, 2005, 03:02 PM
If they don't line up, they're not enduring sound doctrine, they ought not to be allowed to claim the name of Jesus.
I'm OEC, Aimiel. So y'all make your case that I am not saved nor a Christian.

kmoney
October 18th, 2005, 03:03 PM
I'm OEC, Aimiel. So y'all make your case that I am not saved nor a Christian.
How old is "old"?

Greywolf
October 18th, 2005, 03:04 PM
If they don't line up, they're not enduring sound doctrine, they ought not to be allowed to claim the name of Jesus.

Maybe there could be a TOL Certified Christian™ option. :think:

SOTK
October 18th, 2005, 03:07 PM
I'm OEC, Aimiel. So y'all make your case that I am not saved nor a Christian.

I was once an OEC. Whether you are OEC or YEC is of no consequence. It's non-salvific. I don't think Aimiel was suggesting that it is.

You are definitely saved in my book (not that what I have to say even matters). :)

Crow
October 18th, 2005, 03:08 PM
How old is "old"?

As in way older than 6000 years.

And you know something? I'm saved by the grace which came from Him with my belief in Christ as my Savior, not in how I interpret the length of the days referred to in the Genesis account, nor in Aimiel's interpretation of what constitutes a Christian.

SOTK
October 18th, 2005, 03:12 PM
As in way older than 6000 years.

And you know something? I'm saved by the grace which came with my belief in Christ as my Savior, not in how I interpret the length of the days referred to in the Genesis account, nor in Aimiel's interpretation of what constitutes a Christian.

:up:

Yep, we are all saved by grace!

kmoney
October 18th, 2005, 03:16 PM
As in way older than 6000 years.

And you know something? I'm saved by the grace which came from Him with my belief in Christ as my Savior, not in how I interpret the length of the days referred to in the Genesis account, nor in Aimiel's interpretation of what constitutes a Christian.
I was not about to question your salvation. I was just asking a question....

Crow
October 18th, 2005, 03:23 PM
I was not about to question your salvation. I was just asking a question....

I understand. I just get kind hot when people start this kind of mess.

Christians are Christians by receiving grace by their faith in Christ as their Savior. And we all don't believe or interpret everything the same way. Agreeing with one another in every point of doctrine is not what makes us Christian or otherwise.

The webmaster stated the beliefs of the owners of this site. And I believe pretty much as they do, but I am OEC. It is possible for most Christians to disagree on some of the non-salvic issues and recognize each other as "real" Christians. Most.

koban
October 18th, 2005, 03:23 PM
Simple, ask the Christians on TOL to report anyone whose profile proclaims, "Christian," who isn't posting threads which are in agreement with the doctrine stated in the Statement of Faith. If they don't retract their post, they'll have to be changed to something other than Christian, until they accpet the tenets of the Christian faith.



Sounds like we could just call them TOLians and be done with it.

or Aimielians :think:

GuySmiley
October 18th, 2005, 04:00 PM
I'm OEC, Aimiel. So y'all make your case that I am not saved nor a Christian.
How old do you have to be to be an old earth creationist? I'm 35, but I still feel like a young creationist.

Crow
October 18th, 2005, 04:03 PM
:chuckle: I dunno. I'm 50, so I surely qualify.

Lovejoy
October 18th, 2005, 04:09 PM
How old do you have to be to be an old earth creationist? I'm 35, but I still feel like a young creationist.
As far as I am concerned, the universe is just over 32 years old, and anyone who says it is older than that (like those of you who, insanely, maintain that it is at least 35) are to be regarded with suspicion.

Crow
October 18th, 2005, 04:13 PM
Funny, Lovejoy.

OK, I appreciate the humor, folks, but let's not post any more of it in here. Knight would not want us (myself included) to spam this thread.

:crow:

Aimiel
October 18th, 2005, 04:35 PM
I'm OEC, Aimiel. So y'all make your case that I am not saved nor a Christian.I don't see that as an issue, neither do I see what you believe to be un-sound doctrine. I'm pretty much in the 'who cares' ballpark on that one. I believe what God said, although He never told us what (exactly) the terms 'without form and void' mean. It could mean that the earth was created, but not pressed into His 'cookie-cutter' yet, and we don't know how long before He began creation that it was 'void.'

Aimiel
October 18th, 2005, 04:36 PM
Maybe there could be a TOL Certified Christianô option. :think:Or, perhaps, Bona fide Believer, for someone who subscribes to the TOL Statement of Faith.

Aimiel
October 18th, 2005, 04:38 PM
I'm saved by the grace which came from Him with my belief in Christ as my Savior, not in how I interpret the length of the days referred to in the Genesis account, nor in Aimiel's interpretation of what constitutes a Christian.I'm not trying to say anyone isn't saved, merely want to allow those who don't have any glaring 'red flags' to be able to be designated as such.

Crow
October 18th, 2005, 04:49 PM
I'm not trying to say anyone isn't saved, merely want to allow those who don't have any glaring 'red flags' to be able to be designated as such.

So which of these categories would you OECs post under?

Mormon - Jehovah's Witness - Jewish - Muslim - Hindu - Buddhist - Agnostic - Atheist - Wiccan - Satanist - Pagan

SOTK
October 18th, 2005, 05:19 PM
Crow,

He already said that he doesn't see OECs as non-christians. I think you have misunderstood him from the beginning.

Charity
October 18th, 2005, 05:27 PM
Maybe we should have all members who wish to 'profess' Christianity take the TOL Statement of Faith seriously enough to agree with it. Anyone who doesn't shouldn't be allowed to pretend that they are Christian, at least on TOL.

SOTK
October 18th, 2005, 05:29 PM
I don't see that as an issue, neither do I see what you believe to be un-sound doctrine. I'm pretty much in the 'who cares' ballpark on that one. I believe what God said, although He never told us what (exactly) the terms 'without form and void' mean. It could mean that the earth was created, but not pressed into His 'cookie-cutter' yet, and we don't know how long before He began creation that it was 'void.'

Crow
October 18th, 2005, 05:34 PM
SOTK, the TOL statement of faith states that the God created everything in six literal days. Aimiel advocated using this standard for who can post as Christian or not. That would exclude many OEC.

I'm a OEC. I disagree with that, although I can understand and respect those who believe it.

But Aimiel should really understand what he is saying when he advocates restricting who can be called "Christian" to anything other than those who have accepted Christ as Savior and received His Grace.

Incidentally, the TOL statement of faith does not profess to be a litmus test for what is and is not Christian. It is stating the beliefs of the owners of this site.

Aimiel
October 18th, 2005, 05:59 PM
You pass my litmus test, by professing faith in Christ. Those who don't demonstrate any, and don't endure sound doctrine ought not to be allowed to. Mormons don't fit into the Christian category, any more than Satanists or those pagans who claim to be Christian but aren't; such as David2, who claims that Christ 'faked' His Death.

SOTK
October 18th, 2005, 06:53 PM
SOTK, the TOL statement of faith states that the God created everything in six literal days. Aimiel advocated using this standard for who can post as Christian or not. That would exclude many OEC.

But Aimiel should really understand what he is saying when he advocates restricting who can be called "Christian" to anything other than those who have accepted Christ as Savior and received His Grace.

Yes, I understand that one has to be careful when going down that road, however, I understand Aimiel's frustration with "wolves in sheep's clothing" around here. I also understood what he meant and what he was driving at.

I'm not stating I agree with Aimiel, but I do share his frustration.

You lost me when you posted this:


I'm a OEC. I disagree with that, although I can understand and respect those who believe it.

You are OEC but disagree with it?


Incidentally, the TOL statement of faith does not profess to be a litmus test for what is and is not Christian. It is stating the beliefs of the owners of this site.

I know that I do not think it professes to be a litmus test nor do I believe that Aimiel thinks it does.

julie21
October 18th, 2005, 09:03 PM
Isn't all that matters is when asked on that glorious day of the Lord, "What did you believe regarding my Son, Jesus?" that we answer "Believed on Him, totally and so acted accordingly."?
It may matter to some here what one believes re OEC v YEC and the matter of 'literal' days, but how does your view on that make you any less a Christian? Personally, I can't imagine Christ popping that particular question to us on His return.We know He created it all...and that is all that some Christians need to know. The 'basic fact' of His creating it as opposed to some imagined creation theory. We have the fundamental Truth of who He is in all His glory and that is the basic tenet we need to base being Christian on.
Thank goodness it is not a litmus test for being a true follower of Christ, but as Crow said, merely the stated belief [re the Earth creation length] of the owners of TOL.
"Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror ; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part ; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known."

Aimiel
October 18th, 2005, 10:08 PM
I'm fine with that, on THAT DAY. 'Till then, we ought to not allow someone who isn't Christian to proclaim that they are, in a bald-faced lie. That's all I'm saying. We appear to condone their actions, when we do.

CRASH
October 18th, 2005, 10:14 PM
I'm fine with that, on THAT DAY. 'Till then, we ought to not allow someone who isn't Christian to proclaim that they are, in a bald-faced lie. That's all I'm saying. We appear to condone their actions, when we do.

Just Hammer em when ya see em Aimiel and I'll do the same!

Crow
October 18th, 2005, 10:19 PM
Yes, I understand that one has to be careful when going down that road, however, I understand Aimiel's frustration with "wolves in sheep's clothing" around here. I also understood what he meant and what he was driving at.

I'm not stating I agree with Aimiel, but I do share his frustration.

You lost me when you posted this:



You are OEC but disagree with it?



I know that I do not think it professes to be a litmus test nor do I believe that Aimiel thinks it does.

I disagree with the YEC position. I believe that God chose to create the universe and life in a manner which spans much longer than the 6000 to 10,000 years over which most YEC Christians believe that these have existed.

I respect their position, but I disagree with it.

julie21
October 18th, 2005, 11:04 PM
Aimiel : I'm fine with that, on THAT DAY. 'Till then, we ought to not allow someone who isn't Christian to proclaim that they are, in a bald-faced lie. That's all I'm saying. We appear to condone their actions, when we do.
Amiel, I do not believe for one minute that this,"We appear to condone their actions, when we do" is so...if you read a post that does not have any of the Gospel truth within, or is a distortment of the Gospel in any shape or form, it will become evident from those who are truly in Christ posting replies howling it down and so will plainly show up the "wolves in sheep's clothing'" for what they truly are.
Do not forget that there will be a time when one comes who will proclaim to be a Christian and many will follow him...but if he posted on here, I am sure that he would be shown by those who are true followers of the Lord to be just what he is...a deceiver, no matter what he proclaims under his avatar.
In that same vein, I believe that the posting is the thing which shows what a person on TOL truly is, not what appears under their avatar.

Vaquero45
October 19th, 2005, 02:08 AM
I disagree with the YEC position. I believe that God chose to create the universe and life in a manner which spans much longer than the 6000 to 10,000 years over which most YEC Christians believe that these have existed.

I respect their position, but I disagree with it.

Crow, you probably have heard all this before, but... Have you read "In The Beginning" by Walt Brown?, (you really should if you haven't) and... Taking the Bible literally (as in "six days") just gives you a great sense of confidence.

Your friend no matter how you respond, :D Jeff

(did I mention I am a Young Earth'er?) :)

Delmar
October 19th, 2005, 05:51 AM
I'm fine with that, on THAT DAY. 'Till then, we ought to not allow someone who isn't Christian to proclaim that they are, in a bald-faced lie. That's all I'm saying. We appear to condone their actions, when we do. I would guess that on THAT DAY most of us will be surprised about a few things. Those of us that ended up inside Heaven will likely be glad to learn the truth about the extent of our error. Those in Hell.. not so much!

Aimiel
October 19th, 2005, 06:11 AM
It just bothers me that someone can proclaim Christ and then also proclaim that Jesus faked His own death, because there might be people who read such garbage and think that it might be valid.

Zakath
October 19th, 2005, 07:05 AM
It just bothers me that someone can proclaim Christ and then also proclaim that Jesus faked His own death, because there might be people who read such garbage and think that it might be valid.
"Proclaiming Christ" doesn't exempt humans from exercising their free will to propose and discuss ideas you consider outrageous, does it?

Aimiel
October 19th, 2005, 07:33 AM
When they proclaim that they believe in Jesus out of one side of their mouth and then call Him a liar out of the other, it merely proves who they believe and who they don't.

julie21
October 19th, 2005, 07:39 AM
It just bothers me that someone can proclaim Christ and then also proclaim that Jesus faked His own death, because there might be people who read such garbage and think that it might be valid.
But you and I lots of others are here to show them the falsehood of that, aren't we?
As believers,we are called upon to make the truth known to others and where someone is proclaiming such an untruth as that mentioned, then that is what you do.
I really believe that someone, even a non-Christian, reading a post such as the one you refer to, would have to have some idea of the true nature of the person who posted it, and see it for the garbage that it is.

koban
October 19th, 2005, 07:44 AM
It just bothers me that someone can proclaim Christ and then also proclaim that Jesus faked His own death, because there might be people who read such garbage and think that it might be valid.


Aimiel - if you're referring to this post:http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=906366&postcount=73
consider that he may have been trying to make a point without claiming that Jesus faked his death.

Or he may have been talking about tuna. :think:

Hard to tell with this one. :chuckle:

Aimiel
October 19th, 2005, 07:46 AM
Let's hope so. It really rubs me the wrong way though. Then you post to them, and they ignore the truth, that Jesus said that He was dead, and is alive forevermore. It's just that they make Him out to be a liar.

koban
October 19th, 2005, 07:48 AM
If they ignore the truth, on their own heads.

If they try to make him out to be a liar, who's going to listen to them? Muslims?

Aimiel
October 19th, 2005, 07:51 AM
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Zakath
October 19th, 2005, 07:54 AM
When they proclaim that they believe in Jesus out of one side of their mouth and then call Him a liar out of the other, it merely proves who they believe and who they don't.
It sounds more like you're reading many of your own ideas into someone else's proclamation of faith and are then affronted or disappointed when it turns out that they don't believe as you thought they did.

This demonstrates the importance of clarifying what someone else actually means when they use jargon.

Aimiel
October 19th, 2005, 08:00 AM
You're right. Someone claiming to be a psychologist, even someone with a degree, isn't necessarily a 'real' psychologist; they might just be using the jargon. I'll keep that in mind.

Zakath
October 19th, 2005, 08:05 AM
You're right.You're welcome. ;)


Someone claiming to be a psychologist, even someone with a degree, isn't necessarily a 'real' psychologist; they might just be using the jargon. I'll keep that in mind.Not thinking of anyone in particular are we? :rolleyes:

But your metaphor isn't quite apt since being a psychologist the result of years of study and passing written and oral exams by a board of practicing psychologists.

Of course for religious beliefs, there is no such confirmation. Even your deity doesn't seem to be able to tell you who is and who isn't one of his followers... hence your difficulty. :rolleyes:

Aimiel
October 19th, 2005, 08:39 AM
Christians who endure years of study, passing written, oral and spiritual exams, the latter being given by The Lord, Himself, are confirmed in many ways and by many different 'bodies' and institutions; and are often dismissed as 'whacko' by practicing psychologists as having a 'heaven's reward' fallacy fixation. The idea being to undermine and to minimize Truth, experienced by those Christians. Our diety is capable of doing a lot more than even those who know Him personally have given Him credit for. He's the one Who allows any and every opposition to Him to exist, without any complaints; and still hasn't been proven wrong once. Your diety isn't capable of telling you anything, because it doesn't exist. Hence your frustration.

godrulz
October 19th, 2005, 08:46 AM
I thought Zak was long gone and retired from TOL :jazz:

Zakath
October 19th, 2005, 09:55 AM
I thought Zak was long gone and retired from TOL :jazz:
What ever gave you that idea? :confused:

Not that some folks wouldn't like for that to be true... ;)

Knight
October 19th, 2005, 10:12 AM
I thought Zak was long gone and retired from TOL :jazz:Zakath has quit TOL about 9 times now.

He loves us so much he just cant stay away. :D

godrulz
October 19th, 2005, 10:28 AM
Zakath has quit TOL about 9 times now.

He loves us so much he just cant stay away. :D


Probably part of his addictive or obsessive-compulsive personality.

Zak: I got the idea from you when you waved goodbye into the sunset many moons ago. Perhaps your feline nature will make this the last if you have had 9 reincarnations.

Zakath
October 19th, 2005, 10:34 AM
Probably part of his addictive or obsessive-compulsive personality.:think: Perhaps. Or perhaps I actually think I am doing some good here, at least according to the emails I receive occasionally.


Zak: I got the idea from you when you waved goodbye into the sunset many moons ago. Ahh, well. I didn't take an oath never to post here again and I'm not immutable like some deities, so I guess I'll chalk it up to changing my mind. :)


Perhaps your feline nature will make this the last if you have had 9 reincarnations.Says the poster with a lion as their avatar. :chuckle:

Zakath
October 19th, 2005, 10:35 AM
Zakath has quit TOL about 9 times now.Has it been that many?!

:think:

Hey! You can't count going on vacation... :nono:


He loves us so much he just cant stay away. :DMust be the charming personalities of the staff. :D

Charity
October 19th, 2005, 05:15 PM
If they don't line up, they're not enduring sound doctrine, they ought not to be allowed to claim the name of Jesus.
HI Aimiel
The lawless man feels that God has lost control down here,
that he would feel that he needed to sit on his throne,
The lawless man often is found to beleive in his heart that God dosnt care and with no fear he stands among the people condeming and judging who is Christs and who isint his.
But God knows who each one is, and who is following Christ
That when they should come across such evil that the earthquake will not move there foundations
He alows such people to exist so we may press on to firm foundations,
each one would need to move the lawless man out of the way so Christ may come and lead you.

For while he stands in the way preaching what sounds right you stand to perish from lack of understanding.
I say fear God with all your heart that you maynot be lead to the slaughter house,

Lawless men are caught in an understanding that they have no movement from,
they are void of any other understanding, condemed and set for this time and age.
They envy all that have ears to understand anything contrary to their understanding,
having been left now to burn within, in reward for there works.

Aimiel
October 19th, 2005, 08:57 PM
I hear ya' Charity...

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Charity
October 20th, 2005, 12:39 AM
I hear ya' Charity...

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
No problem Aimiel
Christ was ordained of God to be the judge of the quick and dead

And his kingdom is here,

so I guess reprove, rebuke, exhort, with all long suffering

I donít consider that condemning and harshness without love to people is the work of an evangelist
And I donít consider their reaction back, as endured afflictions

As people who use the scripture in vain to puff themselves up, and murder the innocent,
Donít be fooled the lawless man will be bold enough to use Gods word to maintain control,
And he will say he is rebuking.


charity

koban
October 20th, 2005, 01:01 AM
I would guess that on THAT DAY most of us will be surprised about a few things. Those of us that ended up inside Heaven will likely be glad to learn the truth about the extent of our error. Those in Hell.. not so much!



"the extent of our error" - Outstanding deardelmar!!

I know that I am still struggling with the walk. Who among us can claim perfection?

only One.

Charity
October 20th, 2005, 01:48 AM
"the extent of our error" - Outstanding deardelmar!!

I know that I am still struggling with the walk. Who among us can claim perfection?

only One.
Hi koban


Paul prays for us in .........Ephesians 3; 14, 21

charity

Knight
January 19th, 2006, 08:44 PM
Might be a good time to bump or Statement of Faith.

Knight
January 19th, 2006, 08:44 PM
There is one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.

There is one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father.

Through Him all things were made. For us and for our salvation He came down from heaven: by the Holy Spirit He became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man.

For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered death and was buried.

On the third day He rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory.

With His saints He will judge the living and the dead. And His kingdom will have no end.

There is one Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father. With the Father and the Son He is worshipped.

He has spoken through the prophets and through the Scriptures.
God established the Body of Christ into which the Holy Spirit baptizes every new believer.

God offers salvation by grace through faith alone in the resurrected Christ.
The Bible records the true history of man including that God created the heavens and the earth and everything in them in six literal days; only eight people survived a global flood; through great wonders God delivered Israel from Egypt; the prophets, Christ, and the apostles performed many miraculous deeds.

The Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, in their original state, are the inspired Word of God. God legislated morality out of love for His creation.
Men who reject God will suffer eternal damnation.

Christ commands His followers to rebuke and to judge with righteous judgment and to forgive those who repent. One day God will resurrect the dead, punish the unbelievers, and reward those whom He has justified with the life of the world to come.
Amen.

Catatumba
March 20th, 2006, 07:43 PM
I guess it will fly alone..
It does have a couple of tricky parts or staments.
1."...true God from true God, of One Being with the Father."
2."...and His Kingdom will have no end."
Am I supposed to know what begoten means???

Lighthouse
March 20th, 2006, 08:23 PM
Am I supposed to know what begoten means???
I would hope so.

nanonator
August 23rd, 2007, 04:09 PM
nothing like resurrecting an old thread, is there? BUT ......... seeing as how Knight referred me to it [I was looking for something really cooking around here :)] I figured, what the heck, so here goes ;)

actually, I wanted to zero in on a part of the statement of faith of TOL that was not addressed on this thread, but I also know it's been debated to death and probably on TOL, especially by KJVO advocates - and I just wanted to make a quick comment.

I really like the statement of faith overall. It was actually a relief considering what I have run into as far as the over all "christian" idea of what is Biblical truth ;) [it seems my second "career" in apologetic research has been reading statements of faith by the truck load :help: ]

the statement is this: "The Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, in their original state, are the inspired Word of God." My thoughts are aimed at the phrase "in their original state". which would imply "only" when they were actually spoken by God as given by the Holy Spirit to the original author/writer.

please consider this. The OT was originally written in proto canaanite, hebrew, aramaic. We have no originals, so it seems a bit contradictive to say that we "only" believe that inspiration would be the "originals" when no one knows what that would be.

There is the statement in Psalm 12:7 made by God that He would preserve His Word forever. This is reiterated in the OT by Isaiah, and in the NT by Peter [I am aware of the controversy surrounding the psalm text]. Obviously, trust and faith in God's ability to do this is mandatory.

Inspired means to move, be guided by, influenced by the Divine [per Webster's]. As the word inspire does not appear in the Bible, we are stuck with that definition. I am aware of "God-breathed" per 2 Tim 3:16, which can be incorporated into the definition.

As Paul noted, the Word of God is understood by the spiritual man, not by the natural man. If we do not believe that the Bible is inspired, as we hold it in our hands, then we do not have the very Words of God and we are all deceived. Even though the Word has been mistranslated, errors abound, modern translations skewed and tilted, the basic fact is that one can be saved by reading the Gospel in the Bible - that makes it "inspired" by the thought and intent of God. It is a Living Word that transcends actual words and speaks to the spiritual man.

Yes, it would affect how one develops spiritually and theologically due to bias of translators or paraphrasers [some of the versions are downright demonic], but if God is Omniscient and Infinite, and we have a hunger and a love for God's Truth, He will lead us righteously. This means we have a duty to check out the translation we are using. Far too many christians are content to allow men with unclean hands to mess with the Word so it's "easier to understand". As someone I know once said - you mess with God's Word, He messes with your mind ;)

did I open up a can of worms? :doh:

Anoetos
October 13th, 2007, 06:21 PM
Interesting that you combine an Eastern Orthdodox version of the creed with specifically Protestant soteriological tags...

WizardofOz
November 19th, 2007, 09:28 PM
We share the same statement of faith with Denver Bible Church.

Is Bob Enyart the author of the "TOL Statement of Faith"? (http://www.denverbiblechurch.org/faith.html)

He sounds like an interesting fella.

Aimiel
October 7th, 2008, 09:10 AM
There is one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.

There is one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father.

Through Him all things were made. For us and for our salvation He came down from heaven: by the Holy Spirit He became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man.

For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered death and was buried.

On the third day He rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory.

With His saints He will judge the living and the dead. And His kingdom will have no end.

There is one Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father. With the Father and the Son He is worshipped.

He has spoken through the prophets and through the Scriptures.
God established the Body of Christ into which the Holy Spirit baptizes every new believer.

God offers salvation by grace through faith alone in the resurrected Christ.
The Bible records the true history of man including that God created the heavens and the earth and everything in them in six literal days; only eight people survived a global flood; through great wonders God delivered Israel from Egypt; the prophets, Christ, and the apostles performed many miraculous deeds.

The Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, in their original state, are the inspired Word of God. God legislated morality out of love for His creation.
Men who reject God will suffer eternal damnation.

Christ commands His followers to rebuke and to judge with righteous judgment and to forgive those who repent. One day God will resurrect the dead, punish the unbelievers, and reward those whom He has justified with the life of the world to come.
Amen.Amen!!! :thumb:

Knight
October 7th, 2008, 10:18 AM
You just said you are opposed to this in another thread. That you learned it here in fact.

Denial of OSAS is works based salvation.Nick, Nick... not every thread is a challenge thread. Let Aimiel give us an "Amen". :)

Aimiel
October 7th, 2008, 10:37 AM
I didn't see OSAS described in the statement of faith. Is it in there? If it is I missed it. :idunno:

godrulz
October 7th, 2008, 11:58 AM
You just said you are opposed to this in another thread. That you learned it here in fact.

Denial of OSAS is works based salvation.

This is a lame Calvinistic understanding. If you read Arminius, you would not be saying this. We are saved by grace through faith, the kind of faith that is ongoing, not punctiliar, continuing, not ceasing. There is no mention of saved by works or continuing in works, so it is a non-sequitur to say denying OSAS is works salvation (your accusation would be true if we claimed that we are saved by works vs faith and continued works vs continued faith...big difference since faith is NOT a work nor is continued faith).

The issue is conditional vs unconditional salvation/security (you see a conditional element or you would be a universalist). Both Calvinists and Arminians are in the grace by faith camp (justification), yet differ on perseverance of the saints, another issue that is not identical to justification (glorification...not uncond., causal chain).

The issue determinism vs free will, not faith vs works (evangelicals should all reject works for justification and perseverance).

Try being more sophisticated and less simplistic in your theological acumen.

The majority of Open Theists (you one?) also reject OSAS because of free will theism. You are being inconsistent to adopt it.

Oh, and synergism vs monergism (Calvinistic) is the other issue.

Knight
October 7th, 2008, 12:01 PM
No arguing in this thread. Please stop, or infractions will follow.

godrulz
October 7th, 2008, 12:07 PM
No arguing in this thread. Please stop, or infractions will follow.


What are the parameters for this thread? Can we interact with the statement of faith (pro/con)? What is the line between discussion/debate and 'arguing'?

What can we talk about relevant to the thread without infractions?:help:

asrpcp.org
October 7th, 2008, 06:27 PM
Well written and well said.

BiffSquared
October 13th, 2008, 06:30 AM
What are the parameters for this thread?
What can we talk about relevant to the thread without infractions?:help:

Count Iblis
November 15th, 2008, 08:41 PM
On the third day He rose again in accordance with the Scriptures;

Where does the OT say that this would happen?

Tangible
February 3rd, 2010, 12:08 PM
Pretty good SoF. I'll take mine with a side order of filioque, please.

Jacob
March 27th, 2010, 08:11 PM
John 16 28 I come forth from the father , and am come into the world AGAIN, I leave the world and go to the father .John 16:28 "I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; I am leaving the world again and going to the Father."
his deciples said unto him, Lo speakest no proverb.
Now are we sure that thou knowest all things,
and needest not that man should ask thee by this
We believe that thou camest forth from god.
Jesus answered them, Do ye NOW believe?
Other interesting verses He whom god rose from the dead man have taken and hung on a tree,
Though we preach God rose christ from the dead we are found to be false witness and our preaching is vain,
Dont tell anyone of the vison untill the son of man be risen from the dead AGAIN ,Matthew 17:9 As they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, "Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man has risen from the dead."

Sherman
November 27th, 2010, 05:29 PM
I love this statement! Amen! :up:

Nick M
November 27th, 2010, 05:44 PM
Where does the OT say that this would happen?

That he will die for our sins? Really? You can read Matthew 27, or skip straight to Psalm 22.

Or for easy refrence, see Turbo's post called "Reason to Believe".

steko
November 27th, 2010, 05:44 PM
I love this statement! Amen! :up:

I like it too and I agree with it!

Sherman
November 27th, 2010, 05:45 PM
It sums up what I believe. I am liking this site even more.

steko
November 27th, 2010, 05:49 PM
It sums up what I believe. I am liking this site even more.

I had read it when I first came here, but had forgotten about it.
Thanks, Inzl Kett, for digging it up!

Esquilax
February 9th, 2011, 10:25 PM
Maybe we should have all members who wish to 'profess' Christianity take the TOL Statement of Faith seriously enough to agree with it. Anyone who doesn't shouldn't be allowed to pretend that they are Christian, at least on TOL.## Bad idea. Bits of it are "difficult", like the creation in six days: because another understanding of the chapter is that the days are not there to say how long the work of creation took, but that they are a literary device of the Priestly author to emphasise the importance of the Sabbath. They are not a diary, but a piece of theology.

The second theory isn't disbelief in what Genesis 1 says as Scripture - it's still belief in what that part of Scripture is saying; it is belief with a content different from the "obvious" meaning of the content of Gen.1

One can therefore be Christian, & not accept everything in the TOL :)

Note to Mod: if the above or any of it counts as argument (for the purposes of: the site ? the thread ? whatever-it-may-be): please edit/delete/take other action, as per post 151. Thank you.

Esquilax
February 9th, 2011, 10:36 PM
So, do you think we should kick Old Earth Creationists off the Christian list?

Question - does "Christian" mean "Evangelical Christian" ? The TOL does not exclude those who are not Evangelicals; but the proposal made by the OP might have that effect :think: For those who are not Evangelicals, this question is not exactly idle.

Nick M
February 17th, 2011, 08:01 AM
that they are a literary device of the Priestly author to emphasise the importance of the Sabbath. They are not a diary, but a piece of theology.


Can you explain how that would work? You know, the evening and the morning were the first day? And Exodus 20 stating explicitly the earth was made in six days, so you shall work six days and then rest? Loop that 7th day rest with how the day isn't a day for us.

Bright Raven
August 5th, 2011, 10:21 PM
Glad to see the website's Statement of Faith. As such, it is not open to debate. :thumb:

Krsto
August 5th, 2011, 11:55 PM
Glad to see the website's Statement of Faith. As such, it is not open to debate. :thumb:

At least not on this thread . . . :)

Charity
October 25th, 2011, 04:04 PM
God must have done IT?
ask to many answer's; in a world where answers are such good questions

verily verily..John said Jesus said...no God said that..no the Bible said it...no Moses was first he commanded it!!...an then Paul said...an peter ended up...an John droped simon into the less respector bin for doubt, an peter ran around frantic....an John wanted Jesus to zap everyone behind them Like elijah Did for a power rush...an charitys post disappared ..:think:

MrDeets
October 25th, 2011, 04:09 PM
God must have done IT?
ask to many answer's; in a world where answers are such good questions

verily verily..John said Jesus said...no God said that..no the Bible said it...no Moses was first he commanded it!!...an then Paul said...an peter ended up...an John droped simon into the less respector bin for doubt, an peter ran around frantic....an John wanted Jesus to zap everyone behind them Like elijah Did for a power rush...an charitys post disappared ..:think:

Take it to another thread. Please.

Charity
October 25th, 2011, 04:43 PM
Take it to another thread. Please.

lol, ii sir! thats fair enough. but I dont think that will help, one post is enough, an then its time to get over it. smile

MrDeets
October 25th, 2011, 04:46 PM
lol, ii sir! thats fair enough. but I dont think that will help, one post is enough, an then its time to get over it. smile

Thank you. :e4e:

LadyGreenEyes
February 5th, 2012, 02:37 AM
Not completely clear on the meaning here - does this acknowledge of deny the deity of Christ? The Trinity of God?

Sherman
February 5th, 2012, 08:52 AM
Oh the owner of this site is definitely trinitarian and believes Jesus is God. No worries there.

LadyGreenEyes
February 8th, 2012, 01:29 AM
Oh the owner of this site is definitely trinitarian and believes Jesus is God. No worries there.

Gathered that since then! Really enjoying the site. God brought me here, so there is a reason (or reasons!).

Demon Buster
March 5th, 2012, 04:19 AM
Amen

Charity
March 5th, 2012, 04:57 PM
Trinitarians wholy stand on the gospel of John in which the mystery of God is... Jesus being God himself is boldly preached.

This creates a total deluded disregard for his Life mission of the son of man

The sooner people look at the trial of Jesus an admit the abusive over control to secure power an all authority, Roman ruling
If Israel and Judah had have harkened to..
My Son Take a stick, draw a line, join the tribes as one. then they would have been mighty enough to force receive the inheritance back by Simply following an instructions. Divide an conquer! As A Nation divided among itself it will fall by not rising to dealing with the main oppressor! an then moving on to dealing with its own Nation governing affairs with out a roman trinity to respect. the faith had to undergo legal company changes.



I cant believe people wish to remain ignorant about what human nature was an is capable of deluding into a right.

So If you prefer to to say that all is well, an what happen is true, you are true, because it is true, but for others what happen went wrong, an what happen changed the true, of what should have been true today because they did not illimate an clarify the force of the third party that believed then an now that God gave it to them that they should rule the jewish inheritance for their glory.....

Vaquero45
March 6th, 2012, 12:13 AM
Trinitarians wholy stand on the gospel of John in which the mystery of God is... Jesus being God himself is boldly preached.

This creates a total deluded disregard for his Life mission of the son of man

The sooner people look at the trial of Jesus an admit the abusive over control to secure power an all authority, Roman ruling
If Israel and Judah had have harkened to..
My Son Take a stick, draw a line, join the tribes as one. then they would have been mighty enough to force receive the inheritance back by Simply following an instructions. Divide an conquer! As A Nation divided among itself it will fall by not rising to dealing with the main oppressor! an then moving on to dealing with its own Nation governing affairs with out a roman trinity to respect. the faith had to undergo legal company changes.



I cant believe people wish to remain ignorant about what human nature was an is capable of deluding into a right.

So If you prefer to to say that all is well, an what happen is true, you are true, because it is true, but for others what happen went wrong, an what happen changed the true, of what should have been true today because they did not illimate an clarify the force of the third party that believed then an now that God gave it to them that they should rule the jewish inheritance for their glory.....

Thanks Tonto, you heap good medicine.

Strefanash
May 12th, 2012, 04:05 PM
The creed posted in the OP is all very well.

It is a reasonable account of what we SHOULD believe.

But I know too much of the lurking filth in the imagination, the inner nature of sin, sins of the mind, mark you, to hold that these things we necessarily DO believe.

Which is why i don't like creeds. They repress honesty behind propositional truth, thus hindering repentance, not the contrary

Iconodule
September 13th, 2012, 11:40 AM
Do you all realize that this is basically the Nicene-Constantinopolitan creed with some stuff tacked on at the end? Interestingly they cut out the part about the Church.

Lighthouse
September 13th, 2012, 09:44 PM
Do you all realize that this is basically the Nicene-Constantinopolitan creed with some stuff tacked on at the end? Interestingly they cut out the part about the Church.
No, I didn't notice that at all.:rolleyes:

Hrothgar_Odinnsson
August 8th, 2013, 05:29 AM
There is one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.

There is one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father.

Through Him all things were made. For us and for our salvation He came down from heaven: by the Holy Spirit He became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man.

For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered death and was buried.

On the third day He rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory.

With His saints He will judge the living and the dead. And His kingdom will have no end.

There is one Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father. With the Father and the Son He is worshipped.

He has spoken through the prophets and through the Scriptures.
God established the Body of Christ into which the Holy Spirit baptizes every new believer.

God offers salvation by grace through faith alone in the resurrected Christ.
The Bible records the true history of man including that God created the heavens and the earth and everything in them in six literal days; only eight people survived a global flood; through great wonders God delivered Israel from Egypt; the prophets, Christ, and the apostles performed many miraculous deeds.

The Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, in their original state, are the inspired Word of God. God legislated morality out of love for His creation.
Men who reject God will suffer eternal damnation.

Christ commands His followers to rebuke and to judge with righteous judgment and to forgive those who repent. One day God will resurrect the dead, punish the unbelievers, and reward those whom He has justified with the life of the world to come.
Amen.

Complete and utter nonsense.

Firstly, there are several hundred God/desses. Not just one. Monotheism is relatively new and can trace its origins to Zoroastrianism which first popped up in Persia.

Man has no need for salvation. Man is not inherently evil or flawed. Man simply is.

Jesus of Nazareth was never crucified, but rather a man closely resembling him was. Jesus took his pregnant wife Mary and fled to Gaul (the recently found pottery with his name on it in France). He was aided by the Roman authorities because the only thing he had done wrong is what today would be described as "criminal mischief". Since the Roman Governor could find not fault in the man, and yet the jews still wanted him dead, he aided his escape from the area.

As a historical document the bible is riddled with holes. In fact, it has more holes than swiss cheese. Lets take the first book for instance. In genesis after cain kills able he takes his wife and went to live in the land of Nod. Here is one of the first holes... Who is Cains wife? I suspect Cain ran off with Adam's first wife Lilith. Next, lets look into the life of your supposed savior. The first time we seethe Nazarene he is an infant, we then do not see him again until he is 12 in the temple. After which we don't see him again until he is 30. Now if you look in the gospel according to St. Thomas (which is not in the modern krisjan cannon thanks to the Council of Nicaea) we see Jesus as a 5 year old child. In one of the stories we see that Jesus is playing with another little boy. He apparently got angry with the boy he was playing with and shoved him off the roof of the house. When questioned Jesus claims he did no such thing and brought the boy back to life, who then proceeded to claim that he slipped off the roof.

There is no place of eternal damnation. No compassionate god would ever destroy one of his creations just because they didn't agree on philosophy. Nor will anyone be punished for having one belief and not another.

I am both a Henotheist and a Hard Polytheist. I believe that all gods recorded throughout history exist, however I hold on to the Gods of my ancestors.

May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

Psalmist
August 8th, 2013, 05:43 AM
Complete and utter nonsense.

Firstly, there are several hundred God/desses. Not just one. Monotheism is relatively new and can trace its origins to Zoroastrianism which first popped up in Persia.

Man has no need for salvation. Man is not inherently evil or flawed. Man simply is.

Jesus of Nazareth was never crucified, but rather a man closely resembling him was. Jesus took his pregnant wife Mary and fled to Gaul (the recently found pottery with his name on it in France). He was aided by the Roman authorities because the only thing he had done wrong is what today would be described as "criminal mischief". Since the Roman Governor could find not fault in the man, and yet the jews still wanted him dead, he aided his escape from the area.

As a historical document the bible is riddled with holes. In fact, it has more holes than swiss cheese. Lets take the first book for instance. In genesis after cain kills able he takes his wife and went to live in the land of Nod. Here is one of the first holes... Who is Cains wife? I suspect Cain ran off with Adam's first wife Lilith. Next, lets look into the life of your supposed savior. The first time we seethe Nazarene he is an infant, we then do not see him again until he is 12 in the temple. After which we don't see him again until he is 30. Now if you look in the gospel according to St. Thomas (which is not in the modern krisjan cannon thanks to the Council of Nicaea) we see Jesus as a 5 year old child. In one of the stories we see that Jesus is playing with another little boy. He apparently got angry with the boy he was playing with and shoved him off the roof of the house. When questioned Jesus claims he did no such thing and brought the boy back to life, who then proceeded to claim that he slipped off the roof.

There is no place of eternal damnation. No compassionate god would ever destroy one of his creations just because they didn't agree on philosophy. Nor will anyone be punished for having one belief and not another.

I am both a Henotheist and a Hard Polytheist. I believe that all gods recorded throughout history exist, however I hold on to the Gods of my ancestors.

May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

I take it that you are not a John 14:6 believing, Romans 10:8-13 confessing born again/redeemed/washed in the blood of the lamb Christian.

Hrothgar_Odinnsson
August 8th, 2013, 05:46 AM
I take it that you are not a John 14:6 believing, Romans 10:8-13 confessing born again/redeemed/washed in the blood of the lamb Christian.


Great insight Captain Obvious! What gave it away?

No I left the krisjan faith nearly 10 years ago

May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

Chris_J
August 8th, 2013, 06:02 AM
Great insight Captain Obvious! What gave it away?

No I left the krisjan faith nearly 10 years ago

May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

Why would you come into another's house only to say their system of belief was nonsense, says more about you for sure, and your 10 year absence has really improved your disposition.

Hrothgar_Odinnsson
August 8th, 2013, 06:04 AM
Why would you come into another's house only to say their system of belief was nonsense, says more about you for sure, and your 10 year absence has really improved your disposition.

I do believe that Theology is the belief in/ or the study of the divine. this is not a strictly krisjan notion. now if this was started by krisjans than the erred in naming the forum.


May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

Grosnick Marowbe
August 8th, 2013, 06:08 AM
For whom the ban tolls, it tolls for thee H odin!!

Hrothgar_Odinnsson
August 8th, 2013, 06:10 AM
That't the problem with you krisjans. You cant stand talking to someone of a different faith. You will just walk away or try to ban them on forums and facebook pages etc. No one says you have to like me, but you do have to respect me.


May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

Grosnick Marowbe
August 8th, 2013, 06:14 AM
That't the problem with you krisjans. You cant stand talking to someone of a different faith. You will just walk away or try to ban them on forums and facebook pages etc. No one says you have to like me, but you do have to respect me.


May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

No! You don't have to be respected!! Respect is earned, it's not a given!!

Hrothgar_Odinnsson
August 8th, 2013, 06:17 AM
No! You don't have to be respected!! Respect is earned, it's not a given!!

lol. You have a lot to learn young grasshopper. Fine disrespect me. I don't care. I came here for theological discussions. Not to stoop to the level of a child.


May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

Grosnick Marowbe
August 8th, 2013, 06:20 AM
lol. You have a lot to learn young grasshopper. Fine disrespect me. I don't care. I came here for theological discussions. Not to stoop to the level of a child.


May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

You're a, "Grasshopper screaming at a skyscraper!"

Hrothgar_Odinnsson
August 8th, 2013, 06:21 AM
Ok you make absolutely no sense. Would you care to rephrase that so someone other than yourself can understand what the is supposed to mean?


May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

Grosnick Marowbe
August 8th, 2013, 06:24 AM
Ok you make absolutely no sense. Would you care to rephrase that so someone other than yourself can understand what the is supposed to mean?


May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

They don't like blasphemy around here! So, that's one rule you'll
probably break, real soon!

Hrothgar_Odinnsson
August 8th, 2013, 06:26 AM
Show me a rule that says speaking against kristindomr (christianity) is not allowed.


May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

Grosnick Marowbe
August 8th, 2013, 06:31 AM
Show me a rule that says speaking against kristindomr (christianity) is not allowed.


May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

Just be careful you don't commit blasphemy!!

Hrothgar_Odinnsson
August 8th, 2013, 06:33 AM
the word your looking for is blaspheme. "Just be careful you don't BLASPHEME".

Just because I don't believe in your god and his "son" doesnt mean I am blaspheming them. I just disagree with that religion and everything it stands for.

May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

Grosnick Marowbe
August 8th, 2013, 06:36 AM
the word your looking for is blaspheme. "Just be careful you don't BLASPHEME".

Just because I don't believe in your god and his "son" doesnt mean I am blaspheming them. I just disagree with that religion and everything it stands for.

May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

You'll have to walk a fine line!

Grosnick Marowbe
August 8th, 2013, 06:38 AM
the word your looking for is blaspheme. "Just be careful you don't BLASPHEME".

Just because I don't believe in your god and his "son" doesnt mean I am blaspheming them. I just disagree with that religion and everything it stands for.

May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

My spelling was fine, by the way! Check it out!

Hrothgar_Odinnsson
August 8th, 2013, 06:38 AM
You might want to sit back and consider some of the evidence against your system of belief. You may learn something.


May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

Grosnick Marowbe
August 8th, 2013, 06:39 AM
Learn to spell my Viking friend!

Hrothgar_Odinnsson
August 8th, 2013, 06:39 AM
My spelling was fine, by the way! Check it out!

um no it was not. you didnt use the correct tense of the word. hence the corrrection.



May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

Chris_J
August 8th, 2013, 06:40 AM
That't the problem with you krisjans. You cant stand talking to someone of a different faith. You will just walk away or try to ban them on forums and facebook pages etc. No one says you have to like me, but you do have to respect me.


May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred
I'm sorry, you're not unique, definitely not on TOL. You may have wanted to be scary Nordic man with ominous Thor and Odin references, or intimidate with unfriendly remarks, it's been seen in probably every Christian forum, usually results in a ban, not to avoid debate, more so boredom.

If you want to discuss an issue, start a thread or chime in on an existing topic, don't bash the TOL SoF, this is dumb.

Grosnick Marowbe
August 8th, 2013, 06:40 AM
You might want to sit back and consider some of the evidence against your system of belief. You may learn something.


May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

You're only in your twenties, it's a time of foolishness for you! Someday, you may even grow up!!

Grosnick Marowbe
August 8th, 2013, 06:42 AM
I'm sorry, you're not unique, definitely not on TOL. You may have wanted to be scary Nordic man with ominous Thor and Odin references, or intimidate with unfriendly remarks, it's been seen in probably every Christian forum, usually results in a ban, not to avoid debate, more so boredom.

If you want to discuss an issue, start a thread or chime in on an existing topic, don't bash the TOL SoF, this is dumb.

Good advise!

Grosnick Marowbe
August 8th, 2013, 06:45 AM
You'll be in the red soon enough my little viking friend!!

Hrothgar_Odinnsson
August 8th, 2013, 06:47 AM
I'm sorry, you're not unique, definitely not on TOL. You may have wanted to be scary Nordic man with ominous Thor and Odin references, or intimidate with unfriendly remarks, it's been seen in probably every Christian forum, usually results in a ban, not to avoid debate, more so boredom.

If you want to discuss an issue, start a thread or chime in on an existing topic, don't bash the TOL SoF, this is dumb.

I am discussing an issue. The issue of your SoF. I am not bashing it but showing you evidence why your system of belief is wrong. And like I said earlier that's you krisjans not wanting to have an actual theological discussion. you would rather ignore/ban the person who has a different belief than you.

I am not trying to be a scary viking. I am what I am. None of what I say is said to be threatening or to incite fear in anyone. Just because my Gods are a race of warriors doesn't mean we are trying to kill everyone we see.


May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

Grosnick Marowbe
August 8th, 2013, 06:48 AM
um no it was not. you didnt use the correct tense of the word. hence the corrrection.



May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

I stand corrected! However, your aggressive manner (right out of the gate) will put you in hot water, right away! But, at least we'll have some fun with you!!

Hrothgar_Odinnsson
August 8th, 2013, 06:49 AM
first off im in my late 20s second I have the knowledge of my forefathers. I am not an immature child. I am a mature, rational, logical man who happens to follow the Norse Tradition. Kristindomr could not give me what I needed spiritually and Asatru could. It's as simple as that

May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

Grosnick Marowbe
August 8th, 2013, 06:49 AM
I am discussing an issue. The issue of your SoF. I am not bashing it but showing you evidence why your system of belief is wrong. And like I said earlier that's you krisjans not wanting to have an actual theological discussion. you would rather ignore/ban the person who has a different belief than you.

I am not trying to be a scary viking. I am what I am. None of what I say is said to be threatening or to incite fear in anyone. Just because my Gods are a race of warriors doesn't mean we are trying to kill everyone we see.


May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

Entertain some more!!

Hrothgar_Odinnsson
August 8th, 2013, 06:51 AM
How about stop being childish and have an actual theological discussion.


May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

Grosnick Marowbe
August 8th, 2013, 06:51 AM
first off im in my late 20s second I have the knowledge of my forefathers. I am not an immature child. I am a mature, rational, logical man who happens to follow the Norse Tradition. Kristindomr could not give me what I needed spiritually and Asatru could. It's as simple as that

May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

You meant to say, you're simple minded!! Just correcting your self-observation!! Hope you don't mind??

Hrothgar_Odinnsson
August 8th, 2013, 06:59 AM
see this is exactly what I am talking about. You krisjans always have to do this. We pagan are simple minded? Why? Because we revere nature? Because we see the divine as plural? or is it just because that's all you can come up with to use against us when we don't swallow your religion hook, line, and sinker?


May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

Grosnick Marowbe
August 8th, 2013, 07:11 AM
see this is exactly what I am talking about. You krisjans always have to do this. We pagan are simple minded? Why? Because we revere nature? Because we see the divine as plural? or is it just because that's all you can come up with to use against us when we don't swallow your religion hook, line, and sinker?


May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

I perceive you're a whiner, as well! Not a good sign! Vikings are supposed to be rough and ready for battle! You on the other
hand, seem relatively weak and soft!

Psalmist
August 8th, 2013, 07:25 AM
I take it that you are not a John 14:6 believing, Romans 10:8-13 confessing born again/redeemed/washed in the blood of the lamb Christian.


Great insight Captain Obvious! What gave it away?

No I left the krisjan faith nearly 10 years ago

May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

The great insightful Captain Obvious here...

What gave it away? That Odin baloney.

My wisdom: Proverbs 3:5-6
My protection: Psalm 121:1-8
My fertility: is in the hands my Creator, the I AM, God himself
My Keeper: Psalm 23:1-6, Hebrews 13:5, Hebrews 13:8, is the King of Kings, the Lord of Glory, Jesus Christ, the living son of the living God

Hrothgar_Odinnsson, my you find peace as you would have it, the path you are leads to destuction, what you believe and follow I believe makes you a "Psycho Ceramic" - "Crack Pot"

Thomas the Psalmist: Psalmist I can't believe you posted this.
Psalmist: Thomas the Psalmist, I know, but I did.

It's "Think before click" time ... Here goes ... :geek: Click, send, post, posted.........

Lighthouse
August 8th, 2013, 07:51 AM
Complete and utter nonsense.

Firstly, there are several hundred God/desses. Not just one. Monotheism is relatively new and can trace its origins to Zoroastrianism which first popped up in Persia.

Man has no need for salvation. Man is not inherently evil or flawed. Man simply is.

Jesus of Nazareth was never crucified, but rather a man closely resembling him was. Jesus took his pregnant wife Mary and fled to Gaul (the recently found pottery with his name on it in France). He was aided by the Roman authorities because the only thing he had done wrong is what today would be described as "criminal mischief". Since the Roman Governor could find not fault in the man, and yet the jews still wanted him dead, he aided his escape from the area.

As a historical document the bible is riddled with holes. In fact, it has more holes than swiss cheese. Lets take the first book for instance. In genesis after cain kills able he takes his wife and went to live in the land of Nod. Here is one of the first holes... Who is Cains wife? I suspect Cain ran off with Adam's first wife Lilith. Next, lets look into the life of your supposed savior. The first time we seethe Nazarene he is an infant, we then do not see him again until he is 12 in the temple. After which we don't see him again until he is 30. Now if you look in the gospel according to St. Thomas (which is not in the modern krisjan cannon thanks to the Council of Nicaea) we see Jesus as a 5 year old child. In one of the stories we see that Jesus is playing with another little boy. He apparently got angry with the boy he was playing with and shoved him off the roof of the house. When questioned Jesus claims he did no such thing and brought the boy back to life, who then proceeded to claim that he slipped off the roof.

There is no place of eternal damnation. No compassionate god would ever destroy one of his creations just because they didn't agree on philosophy. Nor will anyone be punished for having one belief and not another.

I am both a Henotheist and a Hard Polytheist. I believe that all gods recorded throughout history exist, however I hold on to the Gods of my ancestors.


Where is your evidence that any of this is true?
You should capitalize personal pronouns, such as the names of countries, religious or ethnic groups and people. Also, Cain's brother was Abel, not "able." Just trying to be helpful.



I do believe that Theology is the belief in/ or the study of the divine. this is not a strictly krisjan notion. now if this was started by krisjans than the erred in naming the forum.
There was no error in the naming of the forum as the intent of the Christian who began this forum was to encourage debate over all theology. But it is still a Christian forum, in that it is run by Christians and biased toward Christianity.


That't the problem with you krisjans. You cant stand talking to someone of a different faith. You will just walk away or try to ban them on forums and facebook pages etc. No one says you have to like me, but you do have to respect me.
You will not be banned as long as you follow the rules.

However, some of your statements are blasphemous against Christianity because you stated them as fact and not just as something you believe.


I am discussing an issue. The issue of your SoF. I am not bashing it but showing you evidence why your system of belief is wrong. And like I said earlier that's you krisjans not wanting to have an actual theological discussion. you would rather ignore/ban the person who has a different belief than you.
Can you back this up regarding TOL?


May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred
You can set up a signature line for this, so you don't have to type it out every time you post. And so people don't have to delete it with every post of yours they quote when they respond to you.

Chris_J
August 8th, 2013, 08:12 AM
I am discussing an issue. The issue of your SoF. I am not bashing it but showing you evidence why your system of belief is wrong. And like I said earlier that's you krisjans not wanting to have an actual theological discussion. you would rather ignore/ban the person who has a different belief than you.

I am not trying to be a scary viking. I am what I am. None of what I say is said to be threatening or to incite fear in anyone. Just because my Gods are a race of warriors doesn't mean we are trying to kill everyone we see.

OK, fair enough.

My point is, this is a post from an admin, for users to read and understand, not necessarily agree with, definitely not to start a debate about, at least not HERE. This is like arguing outside a restaurant about the hours of operation or the no shoes, no shirt, no service sign. Either go in and order or find another place to eat, why are you outside screaming at the signage. If you have something to say, start a thread or chime in on an existing discussion, quit sweating the SoF, you don't have to believe it.

CabinetMaker
August 8th, 2013, 09:00 AM
I am discussing an issue. The issue of your SoF. I am not bashing it but showing you evidence why your system of belief is wrong. And like I said earlier that's you krisjans not wanting to have an actual theological discussion. you would rather ignore/ban the person who has a different belief than you.

I am not trying to be a scary viking. I am what I am. None of what I say is said to be threatening or to incite fear in anyone. Just because my Gods are a race of warriors doesn't mean we are trying to kill everyone we see.


May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred
When will you start presenting your evidence? So far, I see some assertions, but no evidence.

Knight
August 8th, 2013, 10:14 AM
May Odin give you wisdom
Maybe you were busy that day?

Krsto
August 8th, 2013, 10:49 AM
see this is exactly what I am talking about. You krisjans always have to do this. We pagan are simple minded? Why? Because we revere nature? Because we see the divine as plural? or is it just because that's all you can come up with to use against us when we don't swallow your religion hook, line, and sinker?


May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

Oh cool, a Viking. Are you in any Led Zeppelin songs?

Quincy
August 8th, 2013, 12:37 PM
Someone here has a subscription to HBO, :chuckle: .

godrulz
August 8th, 2013, 01:25 PM
Divine revelation is monotheism. Polytheism is pagan. Who is this nut?

Grosnick Marowbe
August 8th, 2013, 01:33 PM
Divine revelation is monotheism. Polytheism is pagan. Who is this nut?

A viking in search of a ship to sink!!

Krsto
August 8th, 2013, 01:42 PM
A viking in search of a ship to sink!!

Godrulz need not worry then. His ship sank before it ever left the dock. :chuckle:

Hrothgar_Odinnsson
August 8th, 2013, 01:51 PM
I perceive you're a whiner, as well! Not a good sign! Vikings are supposed to be rough and ready for battle! You on the other
hand, seem relatively weak and soft!

None of that was "whiny"



The great insightful Captain Obvious here...

What gave it away? That Odin baloney.

My wisdom: Proverbs 3:5-6
My protection: Psalm 121:1-8
My fertility: is in the hands my Creator, the I AM, God himself
My Keeper: Psalm 23:1-6, Hebrews 13:5, Hebrews 13:8, is the King of Kings, the Lord of Glory, Jesus Christ, the living son of the living God

Hrothgar_Odinnsson, my you find peace as you would have it, the path you are leads to destuction, what you believe and follow I believe makes you a "Psycho Ceramic" - "Crack Pot"

Thomas the Psalmist: Psalmist I can't believe you posted this.
Psalmist: Thomas the Psalmist, I know, but I did.

It's "Think before click" time ... Here goes ... :geek: Click, send, post, posted.........

Ok here you go spouting biblical nonsense. First off the bible was written by man, not a god. Man tends to color whatever he does with his own thoughts and feelings.

Odin is no more baloney that is jesus. Just because you have been brainwashed to only call on jesus the white does not mean that other gods dont exist.

I ween that I hung on the windy tree
Hung there for nights full nine
with spear I was wounded and offered was I
To Odin, myself to myself
On the tree that none may ever know
What root beneath it runs

None made me happy with loaf nor horn
And there below I looked
I took up the runes, shrieking I took them
And forthwith back fell I




The path that I am on leads not to destruction but to Valhalla. Where I can do battle against my friends by day and feast at Odin's table by night, whilst I prepare for Ragnarok.

You krisjans are so lazy you didnt even give your god a name. I am that I am. What nonsense is this?

Why does my faith make me a crack pot? I see my Gods everyday. I feel the Gods each day. I feel the warmth of Sunna when she rises every day. I see the clouds that Frigga daily spins on her weave. I see the fecundity of the Earth, the gift of Frey and Freyja. I see the Bifrost, after the rains, which themselves are a gift of Thor.




see this is exactly what I am talking about. You krisjans always have to do this. We pagan are simple minded? Why? Because we revere nature? Because we see the divine as plural? or is it just because that's all you can come up with to use against us when we don't swallow your religion hook, line, and sinker?


May Odin give you wisdom
May Thor protect you
May Freyr/Freyja give you fertility and
May the ever watchful Heimdall alert you to any dangers headed your way

Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred



Where is your evidence that any of this is true?
You should capitalize personal pronouns, such as the names of countries, religious or ethnic groups and people. Also, Cain's brother was Abel, not "able." Just trying to be helpful.



There was no error in the naming of the forum as the intent of the Christian who began this forum was to encourage debate over all theology. But it is still a Christian forum, in that it is run by Christians and biased toward Christianity.


You will not be banned as long as you follow the rules.

However, some of your statements are blasphemous against Christianity because you stated them as fact and not just as something you believe.


Can you back this up regarding TOL?


You can set up a signature line for this, so you don't have to type it out every time you post. And so people don't have to delete it with every post of yours they quote when they respond to you.


The only evidence you have of your faith is a book you claim is divine, ye was written by men. I have stories of the Gods that were passed down throughout the ages. We have no "bible". We have what has been passed down, we have Sagas and Eddas that show us how to live our lives. We live by our virtues and morals. We strive to be like our Gods.


I should capitalize things. I don't always do that especially not after a 14 hour day of work. Same reason I don't really care how the names of the people in the bible are spelled.


In which case, you should not get your feelings hurt when someone who is a non krisjan comes here and voices their opinions. While this forum may be biased towards the krisjan faith, it might do you some good to have someone who is not krisjan on here to debate/discuss things with you.

There are many things which I will state as fact, yet you will not believe them because they are not part of your current cannon. There are several books of your bible that were purposely left out because they would reveal that not every book jives with the rest. Such as the books of Thomas, Jesus, Judas, and Mary.

You guys tend to make things up as you go not only that but you have a track record of killing those who oppose you. (i.e. the Crusades, the Witch hunts etc)

I know I can set up a signature. And I am not typing it. Copy and paste is fantastic. I prefer to make you delete it while copying my posts.



OK, fair enough.

My point is, this is a post from an admin, for users to read and understand, not necessarily agree with, definitely not to start a debate about, at least not HERE. This is like arguing outside a restaurant about the hours of operation or the no shoes, no shirt, no service sign. Either go in and order or find another place to eat, why are you outside screaming at the signage. If you have something to say, start a thread or chime in on an existing discussion, quit sweating the SoF, you don't have to believe it.
Exactly to read and understand. I don't understand how you people can understand what is basically one of the youngest religions in the world. It was literally made up 1,980 (give or take) years ago. I did chime in. That's why we are having this discussion. I am not "sweating the SoF"


When will you start presenting your evidence? So far, I see some assertions, but no evidence.

I have shown plenty of evidence. Seems that you just have not read everything I have posted.


Someone here has a subscription to HBO, :chuckle: .

Wtf are you babbling about?


Godzrule Wtf are you trying to say? Polytheism is far older than monotheism as I have pointed out in a previous post.


My ship is afloat and water tight.

CabinetMaker
August 8th, 2013, 01:55 PM
I have shown plenty of evidence. Seems that you just have not read everything I have posted.

You've posted a cute little story that has been handed down to you, you haven't posted any evidence.

Hrothgar_Odinnsson
August 8th, 2013, 02:11 PM
I have posted evidence. maybe you should read all of my posts.
What cute little story have I posted? Either you don't read everything or you are so blind you cannot see the evidence I posted.
But just so you have a feeling of accomplishment try this truth on for size.

Fact: your god cannot destroy his only adversary. Fact: your devil is allowed to have free reign over Earth, causing much disorder. Fact: your god created your devil knowing full well exactly what he would do. Conclusion: either your god is impotent or evil


You've posted a cute little story that has been handed down to you, you haven't posted any evidence.

Vaquero45
August 8th, 2013, 02:30 PM
No one says you have to like me, but you do have to respect me.


Hrothgar Odinsson
Fire and Ice Kindred

Nope, you earn that here.


Wtf are you babbling about?


Godzrule Wtf are you trying to say?

This isn't helping.

I think viking stuff is interesting tho', my middle name (Regner) is after Ragnar Lothbrock. (sp?)
My dad's mom's family was Danish.

Knight
August 8th, 2013, 02:33 PM
I'm half Viking.

I make a mean lefse.

Vaquero45
August 8th, 2013, 02:37 PM
I'm half Viking.

I make a mean lefse.

That should get you into Valhalla, no? I think you're set! :up:

Oh! I also used to make good mead, and mead ale :) Haven't done it in quite a while.

CabinetMaker
August 8th, 2013, 02:45 PM
I have posted evidence. maybe you should read all of my posts.
What cute little story have I posted? Either you don't read everything or you are so blind you cannot see the evidence I posted.
But just so you have a feeling of accomplishment try this truth on for size.What you posted was not evidence. Its a story.


Fact: your god cannot destroy his only adversary. This is not a fact. God is fully capable of utterly destroying any adversary. He does not do so for His own purposes.

Fact: your devil is allowed to have free reign over Earth, causing much disorder.The devil doesn't do that, men who choose to follow the devil do that. Men have a choice to make, love God or not. If we were all to choose God all the disorder would end.

Fact: your god created your devil knowing full well exactly what he would do.God did not create the devil, God created Angels of which Lucifer was one. As with all of God's creation, God gave the angels free will. Lucifer grew prideful and fell from grace.

Conclusion: either your god is impotent or evilSince your facts are not actually facts but mere assertions of your opinion, the conclusion does not logically follow when the actual facts are used. God is neither impotent nor evil. He is sovereign and He has a plan and a purpose.

Hrothgar_Odinnsson
August 8th, 2013, 02:47 PM
Ragnarok Lothbrok is a fictional character. I am named after King Hrothgar the Dragon Slayer.
I make my own mead too. It's what I sacrifice to the Gods until I can get some animals to raise for that purpose.

Krsto
August 8th, 2013, 02:54 PM
I'm half Viking.

I make a mean lefse.

At Pacific Lutheran U. we should have been the Vikings except WWU already had the name so we were the Lutes. What's a Lute? Hell if I know, but our game cheer was quite unique:


Lutefisk, Lutefisk, Lefse, Lefse, We're the mighty Lutherans, Yah sure, ya betcha.

Hrothgar_Odinnsson
August 8th, 2013, 02:57 PM
What you posted was not evidence. Its a story.

This is not a fact. God is fully capable of utterly destroying any adversary. He does not do so for His own purposes.
The devil doesn't do that, men who choose to follow the devil do that. Men have a choice to make, love God or not. If we were all to choose God all the disorder would end.
God did not create the devil, God created Angels of which Lucifer was one. As with all of God's creation, God gave the angels free will. Lucifer grew prideful and fell from grace.
Since your facts are not actually facts but mere assertions of your opinion, the conclusion does not logically follow when the actual facts are used. God is neither impotent nor evil. He is sovereign and He has a plan and a purpose.

What I posted isn't a work of fiction.

Then if your god can destroy the devil and chooses not to that would make him at least partly evil. He must enjoy the suffering of man.
Your god is not for everyone. Not everyone can believe the stories that your mythology has to offer.
Those are facts and not assertions of my opinion. Your god created evil therefore he cannot be all good. Your god also gave man an extremely curious nature, and they punished the "first" man and woman for being curious. By placing a tree which has a "forbidden fruit" (which is more likely to be a pomegranate since we are talking Mesopotamia) in a place that was accessible to the "first" humans and knowing that they were curious creatures, he set them up for failure. That is like you telling your three year old not to touch the fire because its hot. Then because he was curious and touched the fire you decided to spank him. Man is curious by nature and when told not to do something the first thing they do is to do what they were told not to.

Grosnick Marowbe
August 8th, 2013, 03:03 PM
Ragnarok Lothbrok is a fictional character. I am named after King Hrothgar the Dragon Slayer.
I make my own mead too. It's what I sacrifice to the Gods until I can get some animals to raise for that purpose.

How many dragons have you slain in the past 24 hours?? Now, don't exaggerate or you'll lose ALL credibility!!

Hrothgar_Odinnsson
August 8th, 2013, 03:13 PM
Like I said NAMED AFTER KING HROTHGAR THE DRAGON SLAYER!

PAY ATTENTION: I never said that I was a dragon slayer.

Krsto
August 8th, 2013, 03:19 PM
Like I said NAMED AFTER KING HROTHGAR THE DRAGON SLAYER!

PAY ATTENTION: I never said that I was a dragon slayer.

We like our Vikings to be at least valiant, if not epic. We might lose interest in you shortly.

Grosnick Marowbe
August 8th, 2013, 03:28 PM
We like our Vikings to be at least valiant, if not epic. We might lose interest in you shortly.

At least, he could be upfront about how many dragons he's slain?

Mountainman91
August 8th, 2013, 08:16 PM
It smells like a creed, and then changes it. For example, the last bit about the Holy Spirit baptizing people into the body of Christ reeks of sacramentarianism. Ick. :p

Lighthouse
August 8th, 2013, 08:41 PM
When will you start presenting your evidence? So far, I see some assertions, but no evidence.
Assertions and conjecture. It's all he has.


The only evidence you have of your faith is a book you claim is divine, ye was written by men.
Remember that thing I said about straw men in your other thread? That's what you're doing here.

You have no evidence that I even believe the Bible to be the inspired word of God, let alone that I believe it to be the only evidence of said God.

In the interest of honesty I'll admit you are correct on the first part, but very mistaken on the latter.


I have stories of the Gods that were passed down throughout the ages. We have no "bible". We have what has been passed down, we have Sagas and Eddas that show us how to live our lives. We live by our virtues and morals. We strive to be like our Gods.
So you have fables?

Do you believe in Snow White and the Big Bad Wolf too? If you ever pray to Little Red Riding Hood get her number for me.


I should capitalize things. I don't always do that especially not after a 14 hour day of work. Same reason I don't really care how the names of the people in the bible are spelled.
It isn't about the Bible; it's about the English language and communication. If you want others to know what you mean and about whom you speak you should spell their names correctly.

Abel isn't just a name in the Bible, either. There are people today with those names. Kurt Sutter didn't name Jax Teller's son Abel, on Sons of Anarchy, just because it was in the Bible.


In which case, you should not get your feelings hurt when someone who is a non krisjan comes here and voices their opinions. While this forum may be biased towards the krisjan faith, it might do you some good to have someone who is not krisjan on here to debate/discuss things with you.
You're going to have to try harder if you want to hurt my feelings. Thought you're not actually going to be able to do it.


There are many things which I will state as fact, yet you will not believe them because they are not part of your current cannon*. There are several books of your bible that were purposely left out because they would reveal that not every book jives with the rest. Such as the books of Thomas, Jesus, Judas, and Mary.
Then show them to me.

Either put up or shut up. If you can't offer any evidence of your conjecture then you have no argument and should be laughed out of the proverbial court.

*c-a-n-o-n


You guys tend to make things up as you go not only that but you have a track record of killing those who oppose you. (i.e. the Crusades, the Witch hunts etc)
If your argument is with Catholics then take it up with them; I'm not one.


I know I can set up a signature. And I am not typing it. Copy and paste is fantastic. I prefer to make you delete it while copying my posts.
Then I'll leave it.


Wtf are you babbling about?


Godzrule Wtf are you trying to say?
Implied profanity is against the rules. Maybe you should read them.


What I posted isn't a work of fiction.
Then prove it.


Then if your god can destroy the devil and chooses not to that would make him at least partly evil. He must enjoy the suffering of man.
Satan is not responsible for the suffering of man. Destroying him would make no difference. Satan is responsible for no evil except his own.


Not everyone can believe the stories that your mythology has to offer.
Says the man who believes in pure mythology.


Those are facts and not assertions of my opinion.
Then back them up with evidence.


Your god created evil therefore he cannot be all good.
What evil did God create?


Your god also gave man an extremely curious nature, and they punished the "first" man and woman for being curious.
Yeah, that's exactly what happened.:rolleyes:

You're a moron, kid.


By placing a tree which has a "forbidden fruit" (which is more likely to be a pomegranate since we are talking Mesopotamia) in a place that was accessible to the "first" humans and knowing that they were curious creatures, he set them up for failure.
Or maybe He decided to give them a rule and from there declared the tree forbidden rather than placing it as a forbidden tree from the outset.


That is like you telling your three year old not to touch the fire because its hot. Then because he was curious and touched the fire you decided to spank him.
Yup. Exactly like that. And this just further cements my conviction that you're an idiot. When your children disobey you you discipline them.


Man is curious by nature and when told not to do something the first thing they do is to do what they were told not to.
So what? Is man incapable of overcoming their base desires? Are we slaves to our instinctual desires and thus no higher than the animals?

You are an imbecile.

Paulos
August 8th, 2013, 09:44 PM
Fact: your god cannot destroy his only adversary. Fact: your devil is allowed to have free reign over Earth, causing much disorder. Fact: your god created your devil knowing full well exactly what he would do. Conclusion: either your god is impotent or evil

"We have met the enemy and he is us."

Paulos
August 8th, 2013, 10:09 PM
Firstly, there are several hundred God/desses. Not just one.


1 Corinthians 8:5-6
For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.


Monotheism is relatively new and can trace its origins to Zoroastrianism which first popped up in Persia.

Indications of monotheism can be found as far back as 4,000 or more years ago in the Vedas of India (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheism#Hinduism).

The Egyptian pharaoh Akhenaten was a monotheist:


In Year 9 (1344/1342 BCE), Akhenaten strengthened the Atenist regime, declaring the Aten to be not merely the supreme god, but the only god, a universal deity, and forbidding worship of all others, including the veneration of idols, even privately in people's homesóan arena the Egyptian state had previously not touched in religious terms. Aten was addressed by Akhenaten in prayers, such as the Great Hymn to the Aten: "O Sole God beside whom there is none". The Egyptian people were to worship Akhenaten; only Akhenaten and Nefertiti could worship Aten.

-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheism#Atenism

Krsto
August 9th, 2013, 12:14 AM
At least, he could be upfront about how many dragons he's slain?

I wouldn't think false modesty would be a Viking thing so I'm willing to take him at his word for it. Which means he's a boring Viking. :down:

Next Viking please.

Grosnick Marowbe
August 9th, 2013, 12:19 AM
I wouldn't think false modesty would be a Viking thing so I'm willing to take him at his word for it. Which means he's a boring Viking. :down:

Next Viking please.

I'll bet he hasn't even burned and piledged a single village!!

Krsto
August 9th, 2013, 12:24 AM
I'll bet he hasn't even burned and piledged a single village!!

Yeah Son of Odinn. What about that?

Grosnick Marowbe
August 9th, 2013, 12:26 AM
Yeah Son of Odinn. What about that?

This is a, watered down viking for certain!

Charity
August 9th, 2013, 03:54 AM
I'm half Viking.

I make a mean lefse.

What's this! Medieval TOL month?

My family name translates to Anglo saxon. I'm in...a looking for royal loot!

chrysostom
August 9th, 2013, 03:57 AM
good night charity

Charity
August 9th, 2013, 04:17 AM
Good night chrys :)

Lighthouse
August 9th, 2013, 09:06 PM
I think he ran away, guys. Too much of a wimp to stand up for and defend his beliefs.

rocketman
August 9th, 2013, 09:27 PM
I think he ran away, guys. Too much of a wimp to stand up for and defend his beliefs.

Maybe he is just changing his bong water...

Lighthouse
August 9th, 2013, 09:34 PM
Maybe he is just changing his bong water...
I bet it's shaped like Mjolnir.