Nuclear Iran Obama's Legacy

"Will Israel Strike by August?...

...Russia has just announced that it intends to allow the Iranian nuclear reactor facility located in Bushehr (near the Persian Gulf) to go live in August. This is an ominous development. Now Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu has a fateful decision to make. Will he order a preemptive military strike against all of Iran’s nuclear sites before August when the Bushehr site becomes “hot”? His mentor, Menachem Begin, ordered an Israeli air strike against Saddam Hussein’s Osirik nuclear reactor in Iraq before it went hot in 1981. Netanyahu wants the world to act with decisive unity to stop Iran from getting the Bomb. But that is increasingly unlikely. The Obama administration is no longer calling for “crippling sanctions,” and even if they were, it appears to be too late for sanctions to be effective. U.S. officials — including Defense Secretary Robert Gates — says Iran could have the Bomb by next year. German intelligence thinks it could be sooner. We need to pray for peace, but prepare for war..." Story. :Nineveh: Mt 24:6, 22, 2 Thess. 2:7, 8, Ob 7, Eze 38:3 more

How quickly will they use their nuke if they get it? .024 seconds or .073 seconds?

Knowing how insecure the Israeli's are, yeah I can see an attack before August.

Can't we all just get along?

fool said:

Can't we all just get along?

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When fear dominates who you are, then no there is no getting along.

Obama has dragged his feet on this for too long. Sanctions at this point will be meaningless - Iran will be able to weather a year or two of sanctions until it has its bomb. With help from Russia and China, it can hold out indefinitely against western sanctions.

Obama also can't justify invading yet another Muslim country at this point. The Iranians know this.

It seems like an Israeli strike is almost inevitable. What will the Iranian response to that be?
Missiles on Israel? Possible, but it will lead to even more Israeli attacks and might escalate in to a war if the US intervenes.
Terrorist attacks on American, Israeli and Jewish targets? probably.

So war and destruction are the end result of Obama's appeasement strategy. When will he realize the strategy doesn't work?

fool said:

Can't we all just get along?

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When one country has declared it wants to destroy another country, and does everything it can to acquire weapons that can destroy that other country, then the answer is no.

We can't afford to get along with such maniacs.

mighty_duck said:

Obama has dragged his feet on this for too long. Sanctions at this point will be meaningless - Iran will be able to weather a year or two of sanctions until it has its bomb. With help from Russia and China, it can hold out indefinitely against western sanctions.

Obama also can't justify invading yet another Muslim country at this point. The Iranians know this.

It seems like an Israeli strike is almost inevitable. What will the Iranian response to that be?
Missiles on Israel? Possible, but it will lead to even more Israeli attacks and might escalate in to a war if the US intervenes.
Terrorist attacks on American, Israeli and Jewish targets? probably.

So war and destruction are the end result of Obama's appeasement strategy. When will he realize the strategy doesn't work?

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What does Obama's strategy have to do with Israel attacking Iran? I surely hope Israel doesn't do anything hasty because I'm sure it will get us involved. :doh:

mighty_duck said:

When one country has declared it wants to destroy another country, and does everything it can to acquire weapons that can destroy that other country, then the answer is no.

We can't afford to get along with such maniacs.

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You assume Iran is trying to acquire weapons.
I also think that the whole "Iran wants to wipe Israel off the face of the map" thing is overblown and distorted.

drbrumley said:

When fear dominates who you are, then no there is no getting along.

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I say let the whole lot of those barbarians tear each other to shreds while the rest of the world munches popcorn and watches.

Israel has the capacity to nuke to the bedrock every other major city in the Middle East, and they've been itching to do exactly that for years.

Here's a golden opportunity for them to finally be Large and In Charge of that good-for-nothing cesspool.

kmoney said:

what does Obama's strategy have to do with Israel attacking Iran? I surely hope Israel doesn't do anything hasty because I'm sure it will get us involved. :doh:

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Obama's limp wristed handling of this has led to Iran trucking on at full speed with its nuclear program. If Israel will feel threatened (and it would be justified in feeling this way), it will attack. It can't afford to allow a nuclear Iran, even if there is fallout.

Better that than nuclear fallout. :think:

kmoney said:

You assume Iran is trying to acquire weapons.

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So you buy the story of multiple "peaceful" nuclear refining plans that he won't let inspectors near?

In that case, I've got some swamp land you will be very interested in!

kmoney said:

I also think that the whole "Iran wants to wipe Israel off the face of the map" thing is overblown and distorted.

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If he had said "Washington DC" instead of Jerusalem, it might have hit a nerve, and you would not be quite so generous with your interpretations.

At the risk of evoking Godwin, this is exactly the type of arguments Chamberlain used.

kmoney said:

The "wipe Israel off the map hoax

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That's a pretty old article. Things change in 3+ years.

On his official website, they claims:
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said here Monday that the Zionist Regime of Israel faces a deadend and will under God's grace be wiped off the map.

http://www.president.ir/en/?ArtID=10114

If there's one good thing we can say about Ahmadinejad's brand of crazy, is that it out in the open. Makes it harder for naive interpretations, but people still try.

mighty_duck said:

When one country has declared it wants to destroy another country, and does everything it can to acquire weapons that can destroy that other country, then the answer is no.

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Well, given that Israel possesses second strike capability, any attempt on the part of Iran to attack them with nuclear weapons would simply result in the nation of Iran ceasing to exist. Doesn't really strike me as a terribly realistic scenario.

mighty_duck said:

Obama's limp wristed handling of this has led to Iran trucking on at full speed with its nuclear program. If Israel will feel threatened (and it would be justified in feeling this way), it will attack. It can't afford to allow a nuclear Iran, even if there is fallout.

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What would you have Obama do?

And I'm not sure Israel should really feel that threatened. First, Israel probably is more powerful than Iran, even if they would acquire weapons. Second, the US and most of the Western powers would come to Israel's defense and fight Iran. Iran, even if they intend to build a nuclear arsenal, would be committing suicide in attacking Israel.

Better that than nuclear fallout. :think:

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Well, most things are better than nuclear fallout but I doubt the likelihood of it happening.

So you buy the story of multiple "peaceful" nuclear refining plans that he won't let inspectors near?

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I'm considering purchasing it. :think:

If he had said "Washington DC" instead of Jerusalem, it might have hit a nerve, and you would not be quite so generous with your interpretations.

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Perhaps.

At the risk of evoking Godwin, this is exactly the type of arguments Chamberlain used.

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Perhaps.

That's a pretty old article. Things change in 3+ years.

On his official website, they claims:
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said here Monday that the Zionist Regime of Israel faces a deadend and will under God's grace be wiped off the map.

http://www.president.ir/en/?ArtID=10114

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That article is subject to the same issues as before. Is "wiping off the map" the correct translation? And what does he mean by it? And what would he do to make it happen?

Wanting regime change + having a nuclear weapons != a-bombing that regime out of existence

If there's one good thing we can say about Ahmadinejad's brand of crazy, is that it out in the open. Makes it harder for naive interpretations, but people still try.

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Why are you whispering? :chuckle:

kmoney said:

What does Obama's strategy have to do with Israel attacking Iran? I surely hope Israel doesn't do anything hasty because I'm sure it will get us involved. :doh:

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"hasty"?
"hasty"?!
This has been brewing for years. Israel has been trying to get the international community to do something about this for years. The world has been dragging its feet for many years, and Israel has been pretty darn patient. There is nothing 'hasty' about Israel's behavior.

kmoney said:

Second, the US and most of the Western powers would come to Israel's defense and fight Iran.

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Considering that they couldn't even get their act together on sanctions, I highly doubt this. Besides which, there might not be an awful lot to come to the defense of. Israel is a very small country, and "a few" nuclear weapons would be the end of us.

chair said:

Israel is a very small country, and "a few" nuclear weapons would be the end of us.

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Then Israel should strike first.

It isn't like anybody's going to do more than half-heartedly gripe about it, given that the West always treats Israel with kid gloves.

I'm looking back to see how effective the Bush approach was at denying Iran nuclear capabilty. It appears that he was beating his chest with limp wrists.

As you can see, Bush was completely ineffective at dealing with the problem. Maybe Obama can do better. But given the situation Bush left him with, it's hard to see how he could do worse.

Gerald writes:
I say let the whole lot of those barbarians tear each other to shreds while the rest of the world munches popcorn and watches.

I beg your pardon. Religious fanaticism is not something barbarians care to get involved with.

WandererInFog said:

Well, given that Israel possesses second strike capability, any attempt on the part of Iran to attack them with nuclear weapons would simply result in the nation of Iran ceasing to exist. Doesn't really strike me as a terribly realistic scenario.

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Iran regularly supplies terrorist organizations in Lebanon, Gaza and the west bank. It isn't inconceivable for one of these terrorists to get a hold of nuclear weapons if Iran had them. And who does Israel strike back at in this scenario? Would it even matter?

These are people that gladly blow themselves up every day just so they can kill as many Jewish civilians as they can. Treating them as completely rational would be a mistake.

kmoney said:

What would you have Obama do?

And I'm not sure Israel should really feel that threatened. First, Israel probably is more powerful than Iran, even if they would acquire weapons. Second, the US and most of the Western powers would come to Israel's defense and fight Iran. Iran, even if they intend to build a nuclear arsenal, would be committing suicide in attacking Israel.

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Nuclear weapons make conventional weapon balances moot. Israel and Iran have too much space between them to fight a conventional war anyway.

If a terrorist organization gets a bomb from Iran, things will get very messy for everyone. It is our job to make sure that never happens.

kmoney said:

I'm considering purchasing it. :think:

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If you act now, I'll throw in an all they can eat alligator buffet. Operators are standing by!

kmoney said:

That article is subject to the same issues as before. Is "wiping off the map" the correct translation? And what does he mean by it? And what would he do to make it happen?

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Considering that it is the Iranians themselves who translated it, I would take it to mean what they say.
Israel would not be wise to wait and see if maybe Ahmedinejad was only being poetic when he tries to get nukes and threatens to wipe Israel off the map.

kmoney said:

Wanting regime change + having a nuclear weapons != a-bombing that regime out of existence

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It doesn't necessarily mean it, but it is a reasonable enough conclusion that will justify Israel taking preventative measures.

kmoney said:

Why are you whispering? :chuckle:

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Didn't I mention he's frickin crazy??
If he ever comes looking, I want to be able to claim that it was kmoney who was advocating bombing him.

Gerald said:

Then Israel should strike first.

It isn't like anybody's going to do more than half-heartedly gripe about it, given that the West always treats Israel with kid gloves.

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I'm sure the billion+ Muslims would have a thing or two to say about it.
And the nuclear fallout will certainly give us some very angry mutant Muslims.