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ebenz47037
May 11th, 2004, 07:42 PM
From MichaelSavage.com (http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/index.html), there is a link to WorldNetDaily story about this and a link to the video of it. It is very disturbing stuff. So, now, when the libs in Washington and on the news complain about our use of force against the people who did this, what are we going to say?

Story (http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38449).

Video (http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/bergvideo.html).

ebenz47037
May 11th, 2004, 07:43 PM
Actually, he's got pictures from the video up now due to so many requests for the video.

Lucky
May 11th, 2004, 09:58 PM
Should we help people that don't want to be helped? :think:

ebenz47037
May 11th, 2004, 10:12 PM
Thing is, Lucky, that the men who killed this man did so because they wanted their comrades released from prison. In other words, they kidnapped these men, hoping that America would do something they say they never do: negotiate with terrorists. And, from what I've heard on the radio all day, these killers were not Iraqis. They were AlQuada.

Lucky
May 11th, 2004, 10:22 PM
Too bad Al Queda isn't a country...

ebenz47037
May 11th, 2004, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by Lucky

Too bad Al Queda isn't a country...

True enough. But, this had nothing to do with our troops being in Iraq. Al Queda influence the Spanish elections by bombing a train. I'm guessing that they hope to do the same with us.

I mean, if you were an enemy of the US, who would you rather have the president be? John Kerry or GWB?

Gerald
May 12th, 2004, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by ebenz47037
I mean, if you were an enemy of the US, who would you rather have the president be? John Kerry or GWB? Actually, another major terrorist attack on US soil would be a boon to the Bush Administration.

They could invoke Emergency Powers and never have to worry about elections again.

For no longer than the duration of the National Emergency, of course...:noid:

To the credit of the other posters on this thread, I haven't seen calls to "out-barbarian" the barbarians, to pay them back with interest.

But then, BillyBob hasn't posted to this thread yet...

cattyfan
May 12th, 2004, 09:44 AM
the perpetrators are saying this is in response to the pictures from the prisons.

let's compare: photos of someone naked with a dog leash and video of someone being beheaded.

somehow they don't seem comparable to me.

just another excuse for the terrorists to take another life.

ebenz47037
May 12th, 2004, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by cattyfan

the perpetrators are saying this is in response to the pictures from the prisons.

let's compare: photos of someone naked with a dog leash and video of someone being beheaded.

somehow they don't seem comparable to me.

just another excuse for the terrorists to take another life.

And, on the radio, they said that at least two of the soldiers mistreated the prisoners because they had heard that Jessica Lynch had been raped while she was a prisoner. They were "getting revenge."

On top of that, this whole thing started (to begin with) because Al Queda used passenger planes as weapons against our country. We went after Al Queda and then after Hussein.

I've noticed that none of the "alphabet" news channels have been showing pictures of those three men who were killed by the mob in Iraq or of the beheading. But, they're quick to put up the pictures of the "torture" that our own soldiers are committing. They (the news stations) also quit showing pictures of the planes crashing into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon.

I guess we're supposed to forget all of that and just blame our soldiers and government for everything. :think:

ebenz47037
May 12th, 2004, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by Gerald

Actually, another major terrorist attack on US soil would be a boon to the Bush Administration.

They could invoke Emergency Powers and never have to worry about elections again.

For no longer than the duration of the National Emergency, of course...:noid:

To the credit of the other posters on this thread, I haven't seen calls to "out-barbarian" the barbarians, to pay them back with interest.

But then, BillyBob hasn't posted to this thread yet...

I don't think we should "out-barbarian" the barbarians. But, I think we should just bomb them and get it over with. To hell with diplomacy. We've been a door mat long enough!

On Fire
May 12th, 2004, 10:31 AM
WARNING: still photos of beheading

http://pictures.albawaba.com/nickBerg.html

Gerald
May 12th, 2004, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by ebenz47037
I don't think we should "out-barbarian" the barbarians.
With you so far...

But, I think we should just bomb them and get it over with. To hell with diplomacy. We've been a door mat long enough! And then you apparently say the exact opposite. What's up with that?

Which "them" would you like to bomb? There's lots to choose from.

But remember, bombs cannot tell the difference between friend or foe, combatant or civilian.

ebenz47037
May 12th, 2004, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by Gerald

With you so far...
And then you apparently say the exact opposite. What's up with that?

Which "them" would you like to bomb? There's lots to choose from.

But remember, bombs cannot tell the difference between friend or foe, combatant or civilian.

:chuckle: I kind of thought I would throw you there. :chuckle: The thing is that we've been in there trying to help Iraq rebuild. And, they thank us by killing the people that are sent to help them? I honestly don't think that the UN could do any better than we can. After all, look at what happened while there were restrictions on Iraq. That is why the UN wouldn't supprt us in going into Iraq.

I just look at it this way. If you're trying to help a dog that's got his foot caught in a spring trap, and he keeps biting you everytime you try to release him, you're going to have to eventually either give up or kill him to put him out of his misery. We may have to step back and look at this that way.

Lucky
May 12th, 2004, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by ebenz47037

On top of that, this whole thing started (to begin with) because Al Queda used passenger planes as weapons against our country. We went after Al Queda and then after Hussein.
Since we couldn't then, and still haven't now, taken out Al Queda, we went after Hussein. Do you ever get the feeling he was, and still is, just a scapegoat?

ebenz47037
May 12th, 2004, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by Lucky

Since we couldn't then, and still haven't now, taken out Al Queda, we went after Hussein. Do you ever get the feeling he was, and still is, just a scapegoat?

Yeah. I thought he was a scapegoat when we first went into Iraq because I believed all the hoopla about there not being any weapons. He probably was a scapegoat then.

My opinion changed when I heard about his prisons and rape-torture rooms and the mass graves.

I'm one of those people who rarely, if ever trusts what the government tells me. So, when Bush said that Iraq was affiliated with Al Queda, I said, "Yeah, right! You just want to go after Hussein because he tried to have your daddy killed." But, after seeing everything I have on the news (and heard on the radio), I've changed my mind about him (Hussein).

I still don't necessarily believe that he had WMDs. But, a man who would torture his people that way should be removed from power. And, there are Iraqis who are happy about our removing him.

Gerald
May 12th, 2004, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by ebenz47037
I just look at it this way. If you're trying to help a dog that's got his foot caught in a spring trap, and he keeps biting you everytime you try to release him, you're going to have to eventually either give up or kill him to put him out of his misery. We may have to step back and look at this that way. So, do you think Iraq (the country, its people, the whole enchilada) is a mad dog caught in a trap?

ebenz47037
May 12th, 2004, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by Gerald

So, do you think Iraq (the country, its people, the whole enchilada) is a mad dog caught in a trap?

Well, do you think that if we let a few live that they would not feel resentment at the fact that, even though all we killed were the terrorists, we bombed their nation?

Are we just supposed to sit here and twiddle our thumbs while the terrorists attack us on our own soil? And, if we react by taking it to their home (which we did), are we supposed to ignore their atrocities while exaggerating our own? Are we supposed to discipline our soldiers that we sent over there for doing what would come naturally with almost anyone?

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 12:42 PM
war is ugly.
how is one to know who it is behind the masks?
would it be possible that it is not 'terrorists' at all?
why was that guy over there in the middle of a war zone trying to get his business started?
did Iraq bomb the USA?

ebenz47037
May 12th, 2004, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by CryTears

war is ugly.
how is one to know who it is behind the masks?
would it be possible that it is not 'terrorists' at all?
why was that guy over there in the middle of a war zone trying to get his business started?
did Iraq bomb the USA?

Cry, when the guy speaks with an Arabic accent and claims to be one of the leaders of Al Queda (I heard the tape on the radio. None of the news stations have said anything yet on television), are you just supposed to assume that it's a setup? I would think that anyone, no matter what his or her nationality that tries to terrorize any country by killing its people is a terrorist.

Who said anything about him being there to start up a business? Did you read the article I posted the link to? He went out there to help set the country back up on its feet.

From the above article:

Berg's mother explained he was in Iraq to help rebuild communication antennas.

"He had this idea that he could help rebuild the infrastructure," she told AP.

That was from his mother.

Who cares if Iraq bombed the US? I don't anymore. When this first started, I thought it was unfair that we had invaded them. But, since finding out what Sadam Hussein did to his own people, I have changed my mind.

Knight
May 12th, 2004, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by CryTears

war is ugly.
how is one to know who it is behind the masks?
I am guessing you think they are Jews in disguise? :rolleyes:

ebenz47037
May 12th, 2004, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by CryTears

would it be possible that it is not 'terrorists' at all?


Cry, what is your definition of a terrorist?

Knight
May 12th, 2004, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by ebenz47037

Cry, what is your definition of a terrorist? LOL... :chuckle: Good point Nori.

ebenz47037
May 12th, 2004, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by Knight

I am guessing you think they are Jews in disguise? :rolleyes:

:darwinsm:

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by ebenz47037

Cry, when the guy speaks with an Arabic accent and claims to be one of the leaders of Al Queda (I heard the tape on the radio. None of the news stations have said anything yet on television), are you just supposed to assume that it's a setup? I would think that anyone, no matter what his or her nationality that tries to terrorize any country by killing its people is a terrorist.

Who said anything about him being there to start up a business? Did you read the article I posted the link to? He went out there to help set the country back up on its feet.

From the above article:


That was from his mother.

Who cares if Iraq bombed the US? I don't anymore. When this first started, I thought it was unfair that we had invaded them. But, since finding out what Sadam Hussein did to his own people, I have changed my mind.

oh I thought it was common knowledge he went there to start a business, no I didnt read the article, I guess they changed their minds to the reason he was there. Last night his family said it was to start a business and to make some money.
Anyone can speak in arabic accent or have it taped etc. With all that clothing on I was just wondering how anyone knew who the killers were.
We bombed Iraq first remember though because they had WMD.
which they didn't have. So I guess maybe the mothers of the children who were maimed and killed probably don't believe us that we are only wanting to help.

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Knight

I am guessing you think they are Jews in disguise? :rolleyes:

If they would take the masks off I would let you know. How can you tell who people are when they are all wrapped up like that?

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by ebenz47037

Cry, what is your definition of a terrorist?

Not my definition, it doesn't matter really.
but when people say terrorist groups and iraq they are assuming alquida or arabs.

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 01:19 PM
the old definition of terrorist was regarding Russians who opposed the government or groups opposing the government,
todays definition of terrorist is arabs.

Aimiel
May 12th, 2004, 01:19 PM
Or maybe someone in a mask, with a white Stetson.

ebenz47037
May 12th, 2004, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by CryTears

Not my definition, it doesn't matter really.
but when people say terrorist groups and iraq they are assuming alquida or arabs.

Cry, according to www.dictionary.com, the defintion of terrorist is:


ter·ror·ist ( P ) Pronunciation Key (trr-st)
n.

One that engages in acts or an act of terrorism.

adj.

Of or relating to terrorism.

terror·istic adj.

\Ter"ror*ist\, n. [F. terroriste.] One who governs by terrorism or intimidation; specifically, an agent or partisan of the revolutionary tribunal during the Reign of Terror in France. --Burke.


adj : characteristic of someone who employs terrorism (especially as a political weapon); "terrorist activity" n : a radical who employs terror as a political weapon

I didn't see anything in there about Al Queda or Arabs. Sorry, my definition of a terrorist is anyone (no matter where they're from) who uses terrorism or intimidation to control others. I have called our own government terrorists before. The word has nothing to do with their race or beliefs.

ebenz47037
May 12th, 2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by CryTears

the old definition of terrorist was regarding Russians who opposed the government or groups opposing the government,
todays definition of terrorist is arabs.

I didn't ask for the old definition or today's definition. I asked for your definition.

What, in your opinion, makes someone a terrorist?

Knight
May 12th, 2004, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by CryTears

If they would take the masks off I would let you know. How can you tell who people are when they are all wrapped up like that? Most people are smart enough to figure these things out.

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 02:20 PM
oh you have to be smart to see through the masks and clothing, oh okay, didn't know that. Thanks. So I guess they should hire smart people to do the scans at the airport and get rid of all those machines?

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by ebenz47037

Cry, what is your definition of a terrorist?

I don't have a definition of a terrorist. To me a criminal is a criminal.

Granite
May 12th, 2004, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by CryTears

I don't have a definition of a terrorist. To me a criminal is a criminal.

That's a joke.

You are not equal opportunity in lambasting Jews you consider terrorists as compared to Muslims who strap bombs to kids. To you one of them is far, far worse.

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by ebenz47037

Cry, according to www.dictionary.com, the defintion of terrorist is:



I didn't see anything in there about Al Queda or Arabs. Sorry, my definition of a terrorist is anyone (no matter where they're from) who uses terrorism or intimidation to control others. I have called our own government terrorists before. The word has nothing to do with their race or beliefs.

I agree with that ebenz but if you were to go out in the streets and ask joe publik what is the first word that comes to mind when they hear the word 'terrorist' it would be Islam or Arab or Muslim, that was my point.

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by granite1010

That's a joke.

You are not equal opportunity in lambasting Jews you consider terrorists as compared to Muslims who strap bombs to kids. To you one of them is far, far worse.

what? and same to you, but this thread is not about Jews, sorry.

Granite
May 12th, 2004, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by CryTears

what? and same to you, but this thread is not about Jews, sorry.

I noticed. It's about Islamic barbarians showing the fruits of their religion. Ain't it grand...

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 02:29 PM
If someone cuts someones head off they are killers.

does that clear it up for you granite?

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by granite1010

I noticed. It's about Islamic barbarians showing the fruits of their religion. Ain't it grand...

I rest my case. See the word Islam?
Now I guess when I get smarter I can see through clothing and condemn an entire religion.
I assume granite you know for a fact they were Islam behind all that clothing?

ebenz47037
May 12th, 2004, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by CryTears

I don't have a definition of a terrorist. To me a criminal is a criminal.

Cry, you're ridiculous! You cite crimes and make a big deal that the perps were Jewish. But, when someone cites crimes done by terrorists, you shout foul because you think we're being racist against Muslims (which isn't even a race. It's a religion!). You're the one who said, "Today's definition of a terrorist is an Arab."

Well, Tim McVeigh wasn't Arab and he was a terrorist.

Granite
May 12th, 2004, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by CryTears

I rest my case. See the word Islam?
Now I guess when I get smarter I can see through clothing and condemn an entire religion.
I assume granite you know for a fact they were Islam behind all that clothing?

Considering they were chanting "Allah is great" while butchering Mr. Berg, it's a pretty safe guess.

Free-Agent Smith
May 12th, 2004, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by CryTears

what? and same to you, but this thread is not about Jews, sorry. But you probably wish it was.

Free-Agent Smith
May 12th, 2004, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by CryTears

I rest my case. See the word Islam?
Now I guess when I get smarter I can see through clothing and condemn an entire religion.
I assume granite you know for a fact they were Islam behind all that clothing? And you know they weren't Islamic terrorists?

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 02:35 PM
no I didn't call anyone a racist.

I said this:


war is ugly.
how is one to know who it is behind the masks?
would it be possible that it is not 'terrorists' at all?
why was that guy over there in the middle of a war zone trying to get his business started?
did Iraq bomb the USA?

which I thought were legit questions. I agree with you ebenz on the definition of terrorist. I used the quotes because I shortened my explanation in regards to this situation. The assumption that the people in this video are Islamic terrorists.
I am simply questioning this assumption and stating how does anyone know that?

Free-Agent Smith
May 12th, 2004, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by granite1010

Considering they were chanting "Allah is great" while butchering Mr. Berg, it's a pretty safe guess. Granite, cry won't believe that. cry will think it is a set-up by the Jews.

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 02:36 PM
but granite is a racist, but that is beside the point.

ebenz47037
May 12th, 2004, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by CryTears

but granite is a racist, but that is beside the point.

:confused: How is granite a racist?

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by Agent Smith

Granite, cry won't believe that. cry will think it is a set-up by the Jews.

It isn't a matter of believing it, it is a matter of how can you see behind the clothes?
knight explained to me that a person had to be smart to see behind the clothes, so that question is answered.
I am just not as smart as you all, and you all have xray vision that comes along with brains.

I suppose that al quida or the terrorists have uniforms?
I suppose during war it has never happened that members of the other side ever put on the others uniforms right?
it has never ever happened right?

Free-Agent Smith
May 12th, 2004, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by CryTears

but granite is a racist, but that is beside the point. Wow! I don't think anyone will notice you trying for a bad redirect.:freak:

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by ebenz47037

:confused: How is granite a racist?

You will have to examine his posts and decide that. It is very subtle but it is.

Free-Agent Smith
May 12th, 2004, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by CryTears
I am just not as smart as you all, .
I cropped your post for my humor.


And I think it reflects more of the truth than anything else you've said.

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by Agent Smith

Wow! I don't think anyone will notice you trying for a bad redirect.:freak:

No I was clarifying to ebenz so she would not think I was a liar, I said I didn't call anyone a racist but then I didn't include granite in that, I think he is a racist.
I was clarifying.

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by Agent Smith

I cropped your post for my humor.


And I think it reflects more of the truth than anything else you've said.

wow that was so smart of you. I wish I was as smart as all of you, I am so jealous.

ebenz47037
May 12th, 2004, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by CryTears

Smokescreen

Can't think of a decent example. Huh? Quit trying to take the focus off yourself, Cry.

Free-Agent Smith
May 12th, 2004, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by CryTears

wow that was so smart of you. I wish I was as smart as all of you, I am so jealous. I know :Nineveh:

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 02:47 PM
I am glad whoever it was behind the mask that cut the head off did not do so in vain.
If it was a stage or a redirect from the prison abuse, and no one believed it was islamic terrorist, it would have all been for nothing.

philosophizer
May 12th, 2004, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by CryTears

wow that was so smart of you. I wish I was as smart as all of you, I am so jealous.


We know. :chuckle:

philosophizer
May 12th, 2004, 02:47 PM
Wow! you guys are quick.

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by Agent Smith

I know :Nineveh: :thumb:

Granite
May 12th, 2004, 02:51 PM
Me a racist. That's almost funny.

And now cry's trying to say that the murderers who decapitated Mr. Berg were, of course, Evil Jews in Disguise.

This lady's got issues, folks.

philosophizer
May 12th, 2004, 02:52 PM
Cry, why are you so sure of an idea that is only your own speculation without any evidence?

ebenz47037
May 12th, 2004, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by CryTears

I am glad whoever it was behind the mask that cut the head off did not do so in vain.
If it was a stage or a redirect from the prison abuse, and no one believed it was islamic terrorist, it would have all been for nothing.

Cry,

Number one, you're the one who brought racism into this thread.

Number two, don't you think that if it was a stage or a redirect from the prison abuse that our news stations would have rushed to show it on television? I still haven't seen anything about it on t.v. at all.

TreMor
May 12th, 2004, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by AtheistsSuck

WARNING: still photos of beheading

http://pictures.albawaba.com/nickBerg.html Notice the timestamps. 11 hours between the time they grabbed him by the hair, and the actual killing. Half a day of torture not knowing when you're going to be killed.

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by granite1010

Me a racist. That's almost funny.

And now cry's trying to say that the murderers who decapitated Mr. Berg were, of course, Evil Jews in Disguise.

This lady's got issues, folks.

you do enjoy an audience dont you granite?
I said in response to the evil islams in wrap, that I dont know who they are because I cannot see through clothing.
I am sorry you cannot understand that concept.

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by philosophizer

Cry, why are you so sure of an idea that is only your own speculation without any evidence?

me? I said I cannot see through clothes to SPECULATE who it is and then everyone got mad at me.

Granite
May 12th, 2004, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by CryTears

you do enjoy an audience dont you granite?
I said in response to the evil islams in wrap, that I dont know who they are because I cannot see through clothing.
I am sorry you cannot understand that concept.

Islamic terrorists took credit for Berg's murder. I don't know how else to say this, cry, but: Muslims beheaded the man. Admit that and move on.

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by ebenz47037

Cry,

Number one, you're the one who brought racism into this thread.

Number two, don't you think that if it was a stage or a redirect from the prison abuse that our news stations would have rushed to show it on television? I still haven't seen anything about it on t.v. at all.

I was trying to tell you what I thought the word terrorist implies in this day is the only reason I brought up arab.

you must not have cable, that is all that is on my television set is this subject, I have the sound off.

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by granite1010

Islamic terrorists took credit for Berg's murder. I don't know how else to say this, cry, but: Muslims beheaded the man. Admit that and move on.

NO- people who said they were Islamic terrorists took credit for it,
and they were all wrapped up in clothes.

Granite
May 12th, 2004, 03:09 PM
Maybe if Muslims stopped shooting down airliners and cutting off heads they wouldn't have such a PR problem.:rolleyes:

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by TreMor

Notice the timestamps. 11 hours between the time they grabbed him by the hair, and the actual killing. Half a day of torture not knowing when you're going to be killed.

Is that you in the avatar? spooky.

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by granite1010

Maybe if Muslims stopped shooting down airliners and cutting off heads they wouldn't have such a PR problem.:rolleyes:

or if they owned the media they wouldnt either
I assume you can prove who was behind 9-11 as well? wow you must have the inside scoop.

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by TreMor

Notice the timestamps. 11 hours between the time they grabbed him by the hair, and the actual killing. Half a day of torture not knowing when you're going to be killed.

I dont quite get the time thing.

docpotato
May 12th, 2004, 03:36 PM
I don't know why anyone is surprised by this. After all wasn't it Donald Rumsfeld who said ""Freedom's untidy, and free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things."

So really, this is to be expected.

ebenz47037
May 12th, 2004, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by TreMor

Notice the timestamps. 11 hours between the time they grabbed him by the hair, and the actual killing. Half a day of torture not knowing when you're going to be killed.

Tremor, did you look at my link (http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/bergvideo.html)? The timestamps are consistent with the exception of the last one that's too blurry to read.

Gerald
May 12th, 2004, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by ebenz47037
Well, do you think that if we let a few live that they would not feel resentment at the fact that, even though all we killed were the terrorists, we bombed their nation?So, you're saying wipe them all out, every man, woman and child, and render every square mile of land unusable, in case somebody comes along a few decades later nursing a grudge and spoiling for a rematch?

One shudders to think how you would've fought the First World War; exterminating the Germans would certainly have prevented the second one...

Are we just supposed to sit here and twiddle our thumbs while the terrorists attack us on our own soil? And, if we react by taking it to their home (which we did), are we supposed to ignore their atrocities while exaggerating our own?If you're refering to 09/11/01, those terrorists were Saudis, almost to a man.

If retaliation was the goal, why are Mecca, Medina and Riyadh still standing?


Are we supposed to discipline our soldiers that we sent over there for doing what would come naturally with almost anyone?Yes, we are, because we are supposed to be better than that.

Am I to believe that, because of 09/11, you're saying this unprofessional behavior is justified?

If you have decided that anything goes, that any action, no matter how brutal, is justified because there's a war on, then don't be surprised if American GIs start getting subjected to even more creative methods of inflicting pain.

Or would you recommend that they be trained to kill themselves to avoid capture?

ebenz47037
May 12th, 2004, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by Gerald

So, you're saying wipe them all out, every man, woman and child, and render every square mile of land unusable, in case somebody comes along a few decades later nursing a grudge and spoiling for a rematch?

I know. I sound blood-thirsty. But, I'm tired of seeing our soldiers and citizens that are over there, trying to help rebuild Iraq, getting killed. And, I'm definitely tired of seeing our soldiers get torn apart here by our own media.


One shudders to think how you would've fought the First World War; exterminating the Germans would certainly have prevented the second one...
If you're refering to 09/11/01, those terrorists were Saudis, almost to a man.

Got to :chuckle: again, Gerald. A lot of the things this country's gone through lately would never have happened if we hadn't gone soft. What I'm seeing you say is funny because you're the one who's always talking about how Christians should stand up and be men and not be afraid to fight.


If retaliation was the goal, why are Mecca, Medina and Riyadh still standing?

I said that a long time ago. Personally, I think they should make a glass parking lot out of the whole area.


Yes, we are, because we are supposed to be better than that.

Am I to believe that, because of 09/11, you're saying this unprofessional behavior is justified?

I'm just saying that you have to remember that they're going through hell over there. They're men and women (merely human with emotions and emotional responses to what they see). You can't expect them to detach their feelings from their bodies with what's going on out there.

Honestly, I know there's no excuse for what they've been doing to the prisoners. But, to me, what the prisoners have been facing is not torture. It's humiliation.


If you have decided that anything goes, that any action, no matter how brutal, is justified because there's a war on, then don't be surprised if American GIs start getting subjected to even more creative methods of inflicting pain.

That's what they said about the Vietnam War, too.


Or would you recommend that they be trained to kill themselves to avoid capture?

Either way, they're going to die if they get caught. Suicide, to me, is the coward's way out. But, they will face far worse than what they've been dishing out at the prison in Iraq if they get captured.

You have to remember that the majority of soldiers out there are kids, compared to you and me. They're away from home (some for the first time) and probably more than a little scared.

People do the same thing with anyone who's a "major player" in life: the president, their pastor, the soldiers fighting for us. They put them up on a pedestal and forget that, instead of being god-like, they're human. And, when the men fall, people get mad.

TreMor
May 12th, 2004, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by CryTears

Is that you in the avatar? spooky. No. It's Dr. Smith, as played by Jonathan Harris.

TreMor
May 12th, 2004, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by CryTears

I dont quite get the time thing. Look at pictures 3 and 4 on the page. In pic #3, they grab him by the head. The timestamp reads 2:44:10. Now on pic #4, they are killing him. the timestamp reads 13:45:47. 11 hours has transpired between the reading of the statement, the grabbing of his head, and his murder.

That means when he is first grabbed, they stopped and let 11 hours go by. I imagine those were looooooong and torturous 11 hours.

cattyfan
May 12th, 2004, 05:53 PM
I haven't seen this information on this thread yet; both Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl (another victim of the terrorists) were both Jewish. The prison photos are just the latest excuse to kill an (American) Jew.

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by TreMor

No. It's Dr. Smith, as played by Jonathan Harris.

hey yes indeed it is! He always gave me the creeps, some things don't change. LOL

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by TreMor

Look at pictures 3 and 4 on the page. In pic #3, they grab him by the head. The timestamp reads 2:44:10. Now on pic #4, they are killing him. the timestamp reads 13:45:47. 11 hours has transpired between the reading of the statement, the grabbing of his head, and his murder.

That means when he is first grabbed, they stopped and let 11 hours go by. I imagine those were looooooong and torturous 11 hours.

Somehow I am missing something. They are holding the head at 2:44. I am not understanding. If they grab him at 2:44 am? then kill him at 13:45, how are they holding the head at 2:44? Am I reading these in sequence.

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by cattyfan

I haven't seen this information on this thread yet; both Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl (another victim of the terrorists) were both Jewish. The prison photos are just the latest excuse to kill an (American) Jew.

That was the first thing I heard on television this morning.
I would guess a few Christians have died in Iraq?

cattyfan
May 12th, 2004, 06:13 PM
certainly Christians have died, too. My point was, the terrorists wanted to kill another Jew and simply used the photos as their latest excuse.

CryTears
May 12th, 2004, 06:30 PM
maybe.

TreMor
May 13th, 2004, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by CryTears

Somehow I am missing something. They are holding the head at 2:44. I am not understanding. If they grab him at 2:44 am? then kill him at 13:45, how are they holding the head at 2:44? Am I reading these in sequence. They probably do this over and over again, sort of like a dress rehearsal. Notice how calm Berg is. Perhaps this is the 10th or 50th time this has been re-enacted. Berg had been missing for awhile, and so this could have become a routine (probably the first few times he was terrified and scrambled away, or was generally unruly).

I think they selected the "best take" of the propagandizing, then reset everything and then went ahead with the murder. In every verision I've seen, there is the sound of scraming before they even grab him, and I think that may be an audio overlay. They drag him over to his side, and the image zooms in and goes fuzzy, then when it refocuses, the deed is being done.

It could have been many hours later that the head being held was hefted.

CryTears
May 13th, 2004, 07:32 AM
I see. They took the best of the pictures and pieced them together?
Something else is odd. The family stated the government would not let him go home, the government says that he was offered a ticket home and he would not go.

Aimiel
May 13th, 2004, 07:35 AM
I'm sure you'll tell us next that it's his own fault that he got beheaded, that he deserved it, and the guys who did it should get medals.

Aimiel
May 13th, 2004, 07:35 AM
Recognizing that a person or group of persons is inherently evil (as Islam and other false religions are) is not racism. It is common sense. Just because the majority of people in this world are not on the side of The Lord puts Christians in the minority. It doesn't make us 'wrong' or lessen our relationship with The Lord. If we expose the lies of a group of people who claim to be Christian, but are a cult, we're doing so to protect the Good Name of Jesus. If we expose the lies of Islam, it's racism? I don't think so.

CryTears
May 13th, 2004, 07:44 AM
What I said was, I am not ready to judge and condemn and blame people until proven guilty, it use to be an American thing.
I am simply too dumb to see through clothing to say they were Islam.
Because I asked how do people know they were Islam I was labeled a hater. Much like the people who hid slaves in the olden days were called ******lovers. They were hated, and punished for going against the popular hanging lynches, yet these same mind sets condemn Islam and hate all of them and tell me to go to the KKK site.
Of course, the true racists cheer with each bomb being dropped because they look at the Iraqi people as animals.
I suppose you have scripture that backs up the idea I am to label an entire group of people as evil? and to go kill them?
Yes it is racism Amiel. What else is it?
You might need to know this. A rabbi in Russia is trying to make it against the law to have 'sects'
If you listen close to granite, he will call different Christian religions "sects"
now think about it.

Gerald
May 13th, 2004, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by ebenz47037
I said that a long time ago. Personally, I think they should make a glass parking lot out of the whole area.Here's a deal for you: you can exterminate the Muslims, if you let me exterminate the Christians.

Then the whole world can get a good night's sleep for a change, instead of having to put up with the hew and cry of this or that believer in "invisible friends".

You can't expect them to detach their feelings from their bodies with what's going on out there.Oh, yes I can, because I've done it myself, and I'm not even a trained killer. So, don't talk to me about detachment.

Either way, they're going to die if they get caught. Suicide, to me, is the coward's way out.The coward's way out? Let's say you're in a combat zone and you're an officer, with information about unit strengths and locations around the area. The enemy has broken through the defensive line, and is sure to capture you. You have one bullet left in your sidearm.

The coward's way out?

Aimiel
May 13th, 2004, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by CryTears

Of course, the true racists cheer with each bomb being dropped because they look at the Iraqi people as animals. Yes, I believe you're right. I don't know any true racists, besides yourself.
I suppose you have scripture that backs up the idea I am to label an entire group of people as evil?I believe that you know how to read, and Bibles are readily available. You can look up The Truth for yourself. You need to get your head out of the Koran, anyway. You've become brainwashed.
and to go kill them?So, now you're putting words in my mouth?

CryTears
May 13th, 2004, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by Aimiel

Yes, I believe you're right. I don't know any true racists, besides yourself.I believe that you know how to read, and Bibles are readily available. You can look up The Truth for yourself. You need to get your head out of the Koran, anyway. You've become brainwashed.So, now you're putting words in my mouth?

I havn't condemned an entire race of people, you have.
I am not the one who wants to bomb Iraq, you do.
You don't have scripture to back up your claim.
Did Jesus come as a Muslim? no.
You are the racist.

Aimiel
May 13th, 2004, 08:19 AM
I don't see any race. Do you mean religion? Do you know that there is a difference? How much education have you had? How old are you? Did you drop out of school in Kindergarten? Did I say that we should bomb Iraq? I feel we should just pull out of there and let them destroy themselves. They deserve their fate. They are being nearly as ignorant as you are. What 'claim' are you referring to? Did I say Jesus was Muslim? Mohammed lived centuries after Jesus. Islam was invented by his 'pet' demon. I am not a racist. A realist, yes. I know and recognize the lies of the enemy of your soul, the devil, no matter what form he takes. He is in Islam. He is stronger in Islam than he is in Satanism. He is subtle, and those who are his pawns never suspect his presence.

CryTears
May 13th, 2004, 08:26 AM
"they deserve their fate" every single one of them? the babies and all? why? because of their "religion" so you are telling me those babies are following a "religion"
What happen to the tree and the fruit?
What evidence do you have that Islam is the anti christ?

and about this taping that I could not see through their clothes before condemming them?
the other answer was 'they speak arabic" see clip below.
I assume if Islam is the anti christ, the palestinians and Iraq should win the war right? The anti christ is to rule the world in the last days. The palestinians better get busy and get out from behind the fence and get to some food so they can start ruling the world.
LOL


May 10, 2004

The Israeli Torture Template
Rape, Feces and Urine-Dipped Cloth Sacks
By WAYNE MADSEN

With mounting evidence that a shadowy group of former Israeli Defense Force and General Security Service (Shin Bet) Arabic-speaking interrogators were hired by the Pentagon under a classified "carve out" sub-contract to brutally interrogate Iraqi prisoners at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison, one only needs to examine the record of abuse of Palestinian and Lebanese prisoners in Israel to understand what Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld meant, when referring to new, yet to be released photos and videos, he said, "if these images are released to the public, obviously its going to make matters worse."

According to a political appointee within the Bush administration and U.S. intelligence sources, the interrogators at Abu Ghraib included a number of Arabic-speaking Israelis who also helped U.S. interrogators develop the "R2I" (Resistance to Interrogation) techniques. Many of the torture methods were developed by the Israelis over many years of interrogating Arab prisoners on the occupied West Bank and in Israel itself.

Arabic-speaking Israelis

Aimiel
May 13th, 2004, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by CryTears

"they deserve their fate" every single one of them?If we pull out, and they (as implied) kill themselves because of their own foolishness? Yup, every single one.
the babies and all? why?Because their parents are too stupid and immature to create a peaceful government in their own land.
because of their "religion" so you are telling me those babies are following a "religion" They are subject to the false religion their parents practice.
What happen to the tree and the fruit? What are you referring to?

What evidence do you have that Islam is the anti christ?I didn't say that, but it does not agree with Christianity, in it's basic precepts or doctrine, so, by definition, it is anti-Christ.
I assume if Islam is the anti christ, the palestinians and Iraq should win the war right?Now you're not assuming, you're presuming. You've missed the fact that 'Anti-christ' will be a person. He will be possessed by Satan, himself. He will rule this earth. He is not a nation or a group of nations, but the EU appears (to me) to be the revived Roman Empire that John saw.

CryTears
May 13th, 2004, 08:51 AM
I see you are paying attention in Sunday School. :)
So there you go, the babies deserve it. See? I wasn't too dumb, it has nothing to do with religion after all does it? You are a racist.
The fruit and the tree? you do read your bible? and you are so much smarter than me you should not need a kindergardner to spell it out to you right?
Oh the anti christ is just one man? Oh he will be the pope? oh.
So he is attacking the Catholic church every day just to pretend he is not in charge. oh.
wow
you are so smart
I wish I was as smart as all you guys.
So how is Islam and the pope linking up? Oh.
they are both enemies of Israel.
oh I see.
okay
got it.
wow.

Aimiel
May 13th, 2004, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by CryTears

So there you go, the babies deserve it.Yes, babies deserve to have whatever their parents want to provide them with. If they kill them, or allow their political views to create anarchy in their country, because of their self-seeking foolishness, and they don't mind their children being killed in the process, they will have to answer to The Lord for their death, not me. I don't believe babies deserve to die. Their parents do, though. That makes the babies dead, not my willingness to sacrifice my son (in the US Navy) to free them from tyranny such as your type of ignorance provides to people. Not my desire to nuke all of the Muslims into the next ice age (carnal thought, not my heart's desire, or my goal).
See? I wasn't too dumb, it has nothing to do with religion after all does it?You are the only one that calls CryTears dumb. We are trying to reason with you, not make you feel or look stupid. Your ignorance is obvious, but that's another subject.
You are a racist.Race has nothing to do with it. I believe that there are many in Iraq who are Christians. There are also many who are secular. Iraq is a pretty secular country. There are, I'm sure, a small number of other religions that are popular there, as well. I am against false religions, and against ignorance, such as you display.
The fruit and the tree? you do read your bible? and you are so much smarter than me you should not need a kindergardner to spell it out to you right?There are 49 different results in Biblegateway.com for the search: "fruit + tree." You pick one, and I'll attempt to respond. You can find it [/QUOTE]here. (http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?SearchType=AND&language=english&version=KJV&searchpage=0&search=fruit+tree)
Oh the anti christ is just one man?Yes, he is. He is a spirit, he causes many to do his bidding, and he will possess one man, completely.

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
you are so smartThank you.
I wish I was as smart as all you guys.I don't think that it is stupidity or intelligence that you lack. It is merely ignorance that makes you hard to reason with, and brainwashing that keeps you on the side of the devil.

CryTears
May 13th, 2004, 09:32 AM
babies deserve to die because of their parents geographics? did you get that from scripture too? oh.
Every single one of those parents dont mind that their children die? oh.
They asked the USA to come there? oh I did not know that.
I am really learning from you amiel.
my ignorance caused tyranny in Iraq? oh sorry.
you don't wish them to die? yet you remain silent unless it is to say they deserve it? oh.
not your son? oh.
so other people should send their sons to fight this awful evil that you see in Islam?

there is but one anti christ? yet you say even now there are many? I am too dumb to catch that one.

So the Pope and Islam?? how did you say they were linked?

The tree and the fruit. A good tree does not produce bad fruit, nor does a bad tree produce good fruit. If each person is judged on their own fruits, their own labor, how then can you condemn an entire people?

If these are the last days, the anti christ should be taken hold of a few things, so what is it the anti christ is in charge of? anything? Where are his people? they should be getting to be the most powerful, so where are they?

So teach me amiel. so far I think I have it. I should tell my children all of Islam is evil, all Catholics, All Muslims. who else?
They should judge them all as one evil group and remain silent if they are killed by US bombs? and I should be able to find that in the scriptures right? Is it somewhere between love thy enemies and thou shalt not judge? or is it underneath not to covet thy neighbors land? or maybe it is next to thou shall not kill? or is it close to turn the other cheek?
I am too dumb to find it in the scripture.

his looks changed a bit eh? (http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/13/berg.friends/)

have you figured out yet why the guys family say the usa had him in custody and would not let him come home and the the usa said they did not but they offered him a ticket?
where did the orange jump suit come from?

Aimiel
May 13th, 2004, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by CryTears

babies deserve to die because of their parents geographics?Your reading comprehension needs some work.
there is but one anti christ? yet you say even now there are many? I am too dumb to catch that one.You've demonstrated that your understanding of the truths found in The Holy Scriptures is shallow, indeed.
So the Pope and Islam?? how did you say they were linked?I didn't. Did you? What are you talking about? Do you believe that if you post a noun, all by itself that this constitutes a sentence? You haven't said anything. What do you want to ask?
The tree and the fruit. A good tree does not produce bad fruit, nor does a bad tree produce good fruit. If each person is judged on their own fruits, their own labor, how then can you condemn an entire people?No, I condemn each and every false religion. They are created by men, and don't have any power or truth in them.
I should tell my children all of Islam is evil, all Catholics, All Muslims. who else?What does Catholicism have to do with Islam, or with our conversation. Are you sure you're in the right thread? What are you talking about? Please try to stay on the subject, or make some semblance of sense, at least.
have you figured out yet why the guys family say the usa had him in custody and would not let him come home and the the usa said they did not but they offered him a ticket?I figure that he thought that he had enough sense to stay out of terrorist hands, and then some Muslim fanatic, with visions of eternity in his head, because he was told in the Koran to cleanse his land of infidels, took things a bit too literally. If Iraq were under law, instead of the anarchy that Islam creates, he would still be alive today.

CryTears
May 13th, 2004, 09:54 AM
Now you're not assuming, you're presuming. You've missed the fact that 'Anti-christ' will be a person. He will be possessed by Satan, himself. He will rule this earth. He is not a nation or a group of nations, but the EU appears (to me) to be the revived Roman Empire that John saw.

Okay so you are saying it will NOT be the Pope? right?
So are these the last days or are they not?
If they are then we should be seeing some power somewhere.
Where is the power?
How is he going to rule the world? Will he have a television station to get his message across? So probably Islam needs to up their media rather than these little home video's? or will the Anti Christ write big messages across the sky for the world to see?
How will I hear him to be under his rule? Will he send me an email? Better be getting Osama a lap top:devil:

Or will I wake up one day and hear a big voice in the sky "CRY THIS IS THE ANTI CHRIST< I CAME TO RULE YOU< AND TRICK YOU"?
So the EU who is against war could be the anti christ? oh okay yep that is tricky! wow you are so insightful.
Okay
So we are not to judge people by their fruits? but by their religion? oh, Jesus lied then? I see.

And the reason Bergs familys story differs from the USA governments story is that Islam is evil? now that takes some thinking, I am too dumb to think that one through.

Aimiel
May 13th, 2004, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by CryTears

Okay so you are saying it will NOT be the Pope? right?No, that's possible. I believe it might also be a Rabbi who is also an Imam, preacher, Bhuddist monk and Satanic priest.
So are these the last days or are they not?I think that you know the answer to that.
How is he going to rule the world?With a rod of iron.
Will he have a television station to get his message across?I believe that he will single-handedly control all media, and that he will be able to spy on any individual on this planet, anywhere, at any time, with the click of a mouse.
How will I hear him to be under his rule?You'll find out. You'll be under his law, which will be hard and fast.
Or will I wake up one day and hear a big voice in the sky "CRY THIS IS THE ANTI CHRIST< I CAME TO RULE YOU< AND TRICK YOU"?Satan doesn't work like that, and neither will his pawn. He will look to the entire world like the greatest hero who ever lived. He will destroy many with peace.
So the EU who is against war could be the anti christ?Wow, look at that. You answered my prediction (John's actually, I quoted from the book of Revelation.
So we are not to judge people by their fruits? but by their religion?What is the fruit of false religion? Idolatry. Duhh.

CryTears
May 13th, 2004, 10:24 AM
okay, I am getting it.

It could be a Rabbi? So that means you are more to be tricked than me right?
If these are the last days, Satan should be getting ahold of the media? So is this clip part of some big media mongrel? or who is it that owns the media?

He will spy on every person? So should he be developing a chip?
who is doing that right now?

the EU is in the bible? wow.

Okay got you, anyone who is in a false religion is evil?
so the part that Jesus said not to be highminded because you yourself did not believe once, that was a lie?

If these are the last days, we should be seeing some power.
where is it?

Duder
May 13th, 2004, 10:25 AM
Ebenz -
I mean, if you were an enemy of the US, who would you rather have the president be? John Kerry or GWB?

Think it through carefully. The goal of a terrorist is to provoke the enemy into shooting himself in the foot.

CryTears
May 13th, 2004, 10:31 AM
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0513/dailyUpdate.html

ebenz47037
May 13th, 2004, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by Duder

Ebenz -

Think it through carefully. The goal of a terrorist is to provoke the enemy into shooting himself in the foot.

I know. And, I also know that the Al Queda bombing of that train in Madrid caused the people to vote a very liberal President (or is it Prime Minister) into office. Spain's now pulling their support of the US in Iraq away.

I think (after watching and hearing John Kerry speak) that if he is elected, that this country would be in a world of trouble. Now, that doesn't mean I'm going to vote for Bush. But, I believe that the terrorists would rather have Kerry in office than Bush. I think Kerry would be more likely to cave to their demands.

ebenz47037
May 13th, 2004, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by CryTears

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0513/dailyUpdate.html (http://)

Cry, your url's no good. And, now, I see why. I'm going to edit it for you.

CryTears
May 13th, 2004, 11:08 AM
:cry:

christian science monitor url.

CryTears
May 13th, 2004, 11:09 AM
amiel, just curious are you from Japan?


Yoshitada Konoike, state minister in charge of deregulation zones and disaster management, said Friday the parents of the 12-year-old youth suspected of slaying a 4-year-old boy in Nagasaki should be dragged through the streets and beheaded.

"It is better to have the parents decapitated for punishment after dragging them around town," said Konoike...

Konoike's remarks drew a barrage of criticism, but he refused to apologize.

Aimiel
May 13th, 2004, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by CryTears

the EU is in the bible? wow.And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

(Currently, the EU is comprised of ten nations.)

ebenz47037
May 13th, 2004, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by CryTears

:cry:

christian science monitor url.

That's all right. I fixed it. When you put a URL, put it between the [ url ] and [ /url ] brackets, not the [ url=http:// ] and [ /url ] Brackets.

CryTears
May 13th, 2004, 11:20 AM
Thanks Ebenz.
I will try!

CryTears
May 13th, 2004, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by Aimiel

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

(Currently, the EU is comprised of ten nations.)

I think you have been watching too much John Hagee.
So because the EU has ten nations you plugged that into that passage?
So everyone on earth should be worshipping the EU right now? Or when does that start?
And the USA? Is it afraid to go to war with the EU?
The Eu is against the Saints?
I am thinking the USA is the dragon. Plug that in and see what you get.

Aimiel
May 13th, 2004, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by CryTears

I think you have been watching too much John Hagee.He's good, but I don't watch his programs. I did, years ago, before he was popular. I've studied many authors' views of the apocolypse, and developed my own theories, and been corrected on more than a few of those. I am never 'too smart' to learn something new. And you?
So because the EU has ten nations you plugged that into that passage?Sorry, but there's far more that points to them than you've realized. For one thing, their headquarters is in Rome, Italy. Sound familiar? The Bible speaks of a beast that was alive, which came out of hell. Could that be Anti-christ? I believe that it will be someone who claims to be a re-incarnation of Nero. That's my theory.
So everyone on earth should be worshipping the EU right now? Or when does that start?You don't get it. This guy will be in charge of the earth, and everyone whose name is not written in Jesus' Book of Life is going to accept him, marvel at him and worship him. Those who don't will be beheadded.
And the USA? Is it afraid to go to war with the EU?Having been in the US Navy, I can tell you that the US of A is afraid of no one, and I don't even think that if the whole rest of the world were against us that we would lose (not that Israel, Canada or Mexico are making plans, but I don't see too many of their troops over there in Iraq. We certainly have the firepower to back up that claim, as well as the anti-ballistic missile weapons to protect ourselves from the global threat. I don't think that Russia should be counted out, since they have not changed their goal (world domination) only their tactics.
I am thinking the USA is the dragon. Plug that in and see what you get. One mixed up puppy: YOU. That's what my calculator comes up with, each time you post. You think that because you have been brainwashed to think that. Aren't they proud of you, one of their star puppets, er, I mean pupils.

CryTears
May 13th, 2004, 02:03 PM
I am certainly too stupid to learn your theory. That we agree on.
Rome? So how does Rome fit into your bible passage? Are all the world leaders secretly gathering in Rome?
You might want to check on how many trips the world leaders are making to Israel:D
A beast that was alive? and came back? and that led you to Rome? How is that?
So all of a sudden all those Saints and Statues and the worshipping of Christ? That is about to stop? Are they going to throw all those Saints in the sea?
How much media does Rome own? How did you get Nero plugged into your plan?
I thought the bible says those who believe in Jesus will be beheaded toward the end days. So is Rome Jesus hating now?

So far here are your facts:

EU has ten nations.

Do you have any other facts?
Or just your delusions?
So when are we all going to start worshipping Rome? Is that going to start pretty soon?

What you pulled out of the bible stated the dragon was powerful and everyone was afraid to make war with him.
Then you said the EU was the anti christ.
So if everyone is afraid of the dragon, then the usa had to be afraid to make war with the EU
but when I ask you this, you tell me how powerful the dragon is.
Interesting you told me how powerful the USA is.
so when I tell you to plug the USA in your formula as the dragon, you respond that I am a sick puppy and brainwashed.
Maybe you can help me.
If we are in the last days, which you say we are,
the anti christ should be gainng power.
If it is the EU then the USA should be afraid of them.
or the USA is the dragon giving the beast his power, so who is our best allie?
your formula has holes in it.
makes me hungry for some swiss cheese.:devil:

Granite
May 13th, 2004, 02:07 PM
Aimiel, not to sidetrack the thread, but not all Christians believe in pre-trib eschatology and even pre-tribbers wouldn't agree that the EU is definitely mentioned in scripture.

CryTears
May 13th, 2004, 02:26 PM
here granite, want a piece of swiss cheese? dip it in the Italian maranara, fabulous!
go ahead, use your fingers, you know what they say......
while in Rome........

Aimiel
May 13th, 2004, 02:52 PM
The righteous have nothing to fear from Satan, or his prince.

Granite,

Yes, I know. That is why I mentioned that these are my 'theories.' The Truth is not yet fully revealed, of what Revelation, or even Daniel really means. When God reveals That Truth, we will all know. We study these things because The Truth is Who we need to get to know better, no matter who we are or what we believe.

Thanks.

Granite
May 13th, 2004, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by Aimiel

The righteous have nothing to fear from Satan, or his prince.

Granite,

Yes, I know. That is why I mentioned that these are my 'theories.' The Truth is not yet fully revealed, of what Revelation, or even Daniel really means. When God reveals That Truth, we will all know. We study these things because The Truth is Who we need to get to know better, no matter who we are or what we believe.

Thanks.

True. I just dislike it (nothing personal) when people treat pre-trib theories as fact, and assume that the majority of Christians buy into it.

CryTears
May 13th, 2004, 03:11 PM
see sexism?
when I didn't buy it I was called everything but a white woman.
give my cheese back -granite.
eww- never mind you bit on it.

wanna sip my Italian coffee?

Herod Agrippa did he behead someone?

Aimiel
May 13th, 2004, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by granite1010

I just dislike it (nothing personal) when people treat pre-trib theories as fact, and assume that the majority of Christians buy into it. Oh, I don't place any faith in number of followers. If I did, I'd be following the devil, Allah. I don't mind that someone disagrees with me, that's the only way that both of us can learn what we think we already know is incomplete knowledge. I don't think that God will reveal 'all' until His Body is complete.

CryTears
May 13th, 2004, 03:17 PM
Then they brought the head of Ish-bosheth to David at Hebron and said to the king, "Behold, the head of Ish-bosheth the son of Saul, your enemy, who sought your life; thus the LORD has given my lord the king vengeance this day on Saul and his descendants."


who were these guys?

CryTears
May 13th, 2004, 03:23 PM
Then the woman wisely came to all the people. And they cut off the head of Sheba the son of Bichri and threw it to Joab. So he blew the trumpet, and they were dispersed from the city, each to his tent. Joab also returned to the king at Jerusalem.

philosophizer
May 13th, 2004, 05:14 PM
Wow, Cry, you're right! The Hebrews are the only people who ever did beheadings. :doh:

CryTears
May 14th, 2004, 07:32 AM
No I didn't say that. Don't put words in my mouth, Lord knows I have enough words.:)
I said "who were these people"
There are people who live by the Old Testament and think the New Testament is evil.
If one is going to live by the book, and bring out quotes of the OT and live by it, are they picking and choosing which phrases they want to live by?
The other point is that something is inherit evil in genetics of a whole tribe of people because five beheaded someone, then when did this gene work itself out?

Who is John Israel?

Granite
May 14th, 2004, 07:50 AM
This is silly even by cry's standards...

CryTears
May 14th, 2004, 07:57 AM
what specifically is silly about it?

On Fire
May 14th, 2004, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by CryTears

what specifically is silly about it?

EVERY SINGLE WORD YOU POST IS SILLY.

You're a nut case.

CryTears
May 14th, 2004, 08:02 AM
Originally posted by AtheistsSuck

EVERY SINGLE WORD YOU POST IS SILLY.

You're a nut case.

that was very specific:doh:

please deprogram

On Fire
May 14th, 2004, 08:06 AM
Need a dictionary?

CryTears
May 14th, 2004, 08:13 AM
no, do you need an individual thought? or you like to hang out with the lynching gang? do you all have your white sheets on?

On Fire
May 14th, 2004, 08:15 AM
Say something rational. Please.

CryTears
May 14th, 2004, 08:22 AM
okay
you are a member of a good ole lynching party.
a black man touched a white woman, c'mon fellows lets go lynch the whole bunch
white woman "Yes I think it was him, it was dark"
Lynching party "string him up boys" "string them all up":BillyBob:

Granite
May 14th, 2004, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by CryTears

okay
you are a member of a good ole lynching party.
a black man touched a white woman, c'mon fellows lets go lynch the whole bunch
white woman "Yes I think it was him, it was dark"
Lynching party "string him up boys" "string them all up":BillyBob:

This is a joke. Cry, of all people, trying to whine and make herself a minority...get over yourself lady.

On Fire
May 14th, 2004, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by granite1010

This is a joke. Cry, of all people, trying to whine and make herself a minority...get over yourself lady.

Lady? That was generous of you! :D

CryTears
May 14th, 2004, 08:42 AM
Originally posted by granite1010

This is a joke. Cry, of all people, trying to whine and make herself a minority...get over yourself lady.


poor granite hates to see himself in the light of day. :granite: :granite: :granite: :granite: :granite:


granite handing out ropes behind closed doors.

CryTears
May 14th, 2004, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by AtheistsSuck

Lady? That was generous of you! :D


"You're not much of a bargain, ya know. You're conceited and thoughtless and messy."

On Fire
May 14th, 2004, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by CryTears

"You're not much of a bargain, ya know. You're conceited and thoughtless and messy."

Who are you quoting?

CryTears
May 14th, 2004, 10:21 AM
guess (http://classicfilm.about.com/library/sounds/betterdays.wav)

ebenz47037
May 14th, 2004, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by CryTears

no, do you need an individual thought? or you like to hang out with the lynching gang? do you all have your white sheets on?

No. I'm washing them for the meeting tonight.

BillyBob
May 14th, 2004, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by Gerald

Actually, another major terrorist attack on US soil would be a boon to the Bush Administration.

They could invoke Emergency Powers and never have to worry about elections again.

For no longer than the duration of the National Emergency, of course...:noid:

To the credit of the other posters on this thread, I haven't seen calls to "out-barbarian" the barbarians, to pay them back with interest.

But then, BillyBob hasn't posted to this thread yet...

Yeah, computer problems....:mad:

I bought a new gun today as a direct result of the beheading of Berg. I hope I will not have the need to use it, but I am at my end with this whole muslim thing. If it's gonna come down to 'us or them', I'm ready to kill as many of them as I can.

I've had it with the smarmy liberals who want to appease terrorists with the hopes that they will go away if we are nice enough to them. The only solution to this problem is to kill as many of them as we can....and then kill the rest.

::This message was approved by BillyBob::

CryTears
May 15th, 2004, 06:06 AM
Originally posted by ebenz47037

No. I'm washing them for the meeting tonight.

oh you must be den mother? read bepop's post above.

CryTears
May 15th, 2004, 06:15 AM
Originally posted by BillyBob

Yeah, computer problems....:mad:

I bought a new gun today as a direct result of the beheading of Berg. I hope I will not have the need to use it, but I am at my end with this whole muslim thing. If it's gonna come down to 'us or them', I'm ready to kill as many of them as I can.

I've had it with the smarmy liberals who want to appease terrorists with the hopes that they will go away if we are nice enough to them. The only solution to this problem is to kill as many of them as we can....and then kill the rest.

::This message was approved by BillyBob::

are you going to Iraq? or will you kill the ones who live here?
Just make sure you get what you want.
My husband was mistaken for a 'towel head' right after 9-11. Which was very odd. Shows people's ignorance.
When he turned his pick-up truck around and blocked them, and walked over to their window with his fire eyes and gritted teeth and asked them "what?" The two beop's said 'nothing, never mind, sorry.'
They almost got a good ole fashion whoopin'.

CryTears
May 15th, 2004, 06:16 AM
Yeah, computer problems....


hackers? LOL

BillyBob
May 15th, 2004, 07:30 AM
Originally posted by CryTears

are you going to Iraq? or will you kill the ones who live here?

I'll kill the ones here.



Just make sure you get what you want.

How courteous of you.



My husband

:noway: You have a husband???? :noway: [He's not one of your goats, is he......]


Or is he a Jew?! :shocked:




was mistaken for a 'towel head' right after 9-11.

Well, Jews and Arabs do look alike.



Which was very odd. Shows people's ignorance.

No kidding. A yarmulke looks nothing like a towel!
Oy!




When he turned his pick-up truck around and blocked them,

I didn't know that Jews drove pick-ups. :think:


and walked over to their window with his fire eyes and gritted teeth and asked them

::Jackie Mason Voice::
"What, you gotta ghefilta fish stuck in your throat? I'll take you two matzos and smash you mishkas like the grapes in my favorite Moghen David wine! Oy!"
::Jackie Mason Voice::

The two beop's said 'nothing, never mind, sorry.'
They almost got a good ole fashion Jewish @$$whoopin'.

Oy!

SOTK
May 15th, 2004, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by BillyBob
::This message was approved by BillyBob::

:darwinsm:

CryTears
May 15th, 2004, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by BillyBob

I'll kill the ones here.



How courteous of you.



:noway: You have a husband???? :noway: [He's not one of your goats, is he......]


Or is he a Jew?! :shocked:





Well, Jews and Arabs do look alike.




No kidding. A yarmulke looks nothing like a towel!
Oy!




I didn't know that Jews drove pick-ups. :think:



Oy!

yes he is jewish, he doesnt know how I feel. :crackup: shhhh don't tell him!
It is his mother that chews with her mouth full and pushes herself to the front of the food bars! Disgusting!:chew:

explains why I do all the WORK around here!

CryTears
May 15th, 2004, 08:03 AM
here is another secret shhhhhh

He thinks I am studying to convert and that is why I spend so much time on the computer. He watches the kids while I study.
:bannana:

BillyBob
May 15th, 2004, 08:06 AM
You have kids?? :noway:

[Oh, that's what little goats are called, I get it.]

CryTears
May 15th, 2004, 08:09 AM
yeah they are nazjews.

CryTears
May 15th, 2004, 10:18 AM
I wonder if this is the same Michael Berg?


The Clueless Left

In his rebuttal to Michael Graham’s Oct. 3 column, “Give Peace a Chance?,” Michael Berg argues that an international court is the appropriate vehicle for bringing the perpetrators of the Sept. 11 attacks to justice.

Right. While many United Nations member countries agree that the bombings are a crime against humanity, as a group they would certainly want to assure a “fair” trial. Since there just aren’t that many democracies with a developed sense of the rule of law around to conduct a fair trial, an ad hoc international tribunal could well include judges drawn from Somalia, Sudan, Iraq and Cuba. Given the track record of United States U.N. lately, bin Laden and crew might end up with a plea bargain: guilty to three counts of littering.

Mr. Berg writes that “by killing people in Asia, the United States government will further jeopardize the safety of American civilians.” He misses the point that if we kill or capture those behind the killing, we’ll end the killing. This endeavor will take some time, but will in fact be a lot easier than the Cold War.

In those days it was the West against the Commies. It was hard to convince the left and the stupid that Commies were as bad as they really were, and thus harder to mobilize world opinion - until 1989, when the walls started falling down. Today we’ve started a battle against secretive mass murderers of innocents. Most of the world was shocked at the Sept. 11 brutality. If we can keep that horror before the world, we should be able to methodically bring terrorists to justice, one way or another. Besides, the many countries that have been paying blackmail to terrorists now have a way out. Even many on the left see merit in that.

Except for Mr. Berg, who’s figured out what alternative measures would keep Americans just as safe. Unfortunately, his ideas would end up putting the rest of us in the same kind of cave that will serve as Mr. Bin Laden’s final resting place. For example, he suggests that we can eliminate terrorist threats against nuclear generating facilities by phasing out the nukes. That’s a fine idea that we can apply to refineries, manufacturing plants of all types, and natural gas and oil pipelines. Get rid of ‘em and, voila, you get rid of the threat and start a new life in the Stone Age, no?

But what really gets my dander up is Mr. Berg’s reference to Israel as equivalent to South Africa during apartheid. The truth is that the average Palestinian who’s an Israeli citizen has more freedom that one who lives in a PLO-controlled area. Arafat, whose gang has killed off any Palestinian moderates they could find, would not accept the generous terms that the last Israeli prime minister offered a year ago for the simple reason that the PLO wants to eliminate the state of Israel. Israel has elections, the PLO does not. This is not a difficult concept to grasp, but seems beyond the grasp of Mr. Berg and his ilk. Why the left perpetuates such slander against the only democracy in the area is beyond me.

Mike Cakora
Columbia

Sound Off archives

Aimiel
May 26th, 2004, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by CryTears

I wonder if this is the same Michael Berg?


The Clueless Left

In his rebuttal to Michael Graham’s Oct. 3 column, “Give Peace a Chance?,” Michael Berg argues that an international court is the appropriate vehicle for bringing the perpetrators of the Sept. 11 attacks to justice.

Right. While many United Nations member countries agree that the bombings are a crime against humanity, as a group they would certainly want to assure a “fair” trial. Since there just aren’t that many democracies with a developed sense of the rule of law around to conduct a fair trial, an ad hoc international tribunal could well include judges drawn from Somalia, Sudan, Iraq and Cuba. Given the track record of United States U.N. lately, bin Laden and crew might end up with a plea bargain: guilty to three counts of littering.

Mr. Berg writes that “by killing people in Asia, the United States government will further jeopardize the safety of American civilians.” He misses the point that if we kill or capture those behind the killing, we’ll end the killing. This endeavor will take some time, but will in fact be a lot easier than the Cold War.

In those days it was the West against the Commies. It was hard to convince the left and the stupid that Commies were as bad as they really were, and thus harder to mobilize world opinion - until 1989, when the walls started falling down. Today we’ve started a battle against secretive mass murderers of innocents. Most of the world was shocked at the Sept. 11 brutality. If we can keep that horror before the world, we should be able to methodically bring terrorists to justice, one way or another. Besides, the many countries that have been paying blackmail to terrorists now have a way out. Even many on the left see merit in that.

Except for Mr. Berg, who’s figured out what alternative measures would keep Americans just as safe. Unfortunately, his ideas would end up putting the rest of us in the same kind of cave that will serve as Mr. Bin Laden’s final resting place. For example, he suggests that we can eliminate terrorist threats against nuclear generating facilities by phasing out the nukes. That’s a fine idea that we can apply to refineries, manufacturing plants of all types, and natural gas and oil pipelines. Get rid of ‘em and, voila, you get rid of the threat and start a new life in the Stone Age, no?

But what really gets my dander up is Mr. Berg’s reference to Israel as equivalent to South Africa during apartheid. The truth is that the average Palestinian who’s an Israeli citizen has more freedom that one who lives in a PLO-controlled area. Arafat, whose gang has killed off any Palestinian moderates they could find, would not accept the generous terms that the last Israeli prime minister offered a year ago for the simple reason that the PLO wants to eliminate the state of Israel. Israel has elections, the PLO does not. This is not a difficult concept to grasp, but seems beyond the grasp of Mr. Berg and his ilk. Why the left perpetuates such slander against the only democracy in the area is beyond me.

Mike Cakora
Columbia

Sound Off archives

I, for one, never thought I would say this, but, here goes:

CryTears,

That was a nice post. I agree with the sentiment, and enjoyed reading it. Too bad that you didn't write it, but it was very well-thought-out and well-put. Succinct and sweet. Can I ask you why you labelled it, "Clueless Left?"

CryTears
May 26th, 2004, 02:14 PM
:noid: