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Christine
May 4th, 2004, 02:11 PM
Baptist activists: Pull kids out of school
Resolution urges members to reject government education



By Ron Strom
2004 WorldNetDaily.com

A resolution supporters hope will make it to the floor of the Southern Baptist Convention's annual meeting next month calls on the millions of members of the denomination to pull their kids out of government schools and either homeschool them or send them to Christian schools.

Introduced by a well-known leader of the SBC and a Baptist attorney, the resolution asks "all officers and members of the Southern Baptist Convention and the churches associated with it to remove their children from the government schools and see to it that they receive a thoroughly Christian education, for the glory of God, the good of Christ's church, and the strength of their own commitment to Jesus."


The authors use Scripture in the resolution to argue those Baptists who trust the public-school system with their children are being disobedient to God.

"Government schools are by their own confession humanistic and secular in their instruction, [and] the education offered by the government schools is officially Godless," the measure states.

Noting that "the millions of children in government schools spend seven hours a day, 180 days a year being taught that God is irrelevant to every area of life," the resolution says, "Many Christian children in government schools are converted to an anti-Christian worldview rather than evangelizing their schoolmates."

The measure is sponsored by T.C. Pinckney, a retired brigadier general who has been active in SBC leadership for several years, and Bruce N. Shortt, a homeschooing dad and attorney who holds advanced degrees from both Harvard and Stanford.

Shortt says the biggest problem he faces in pushing the resolution is that Christian parents are in denial about the dangers of government schools.

"At this point, there are many, many pastors and parents who need to be educated about our obligation to provide a Christian education to our children," Shortt told WND. "In time, most [SBC members] are going to understand better that the little red schoolhouse has really become the little white sepulcher, and it's a seething cauldron of spiritual, moral and academic pathologies."

Shortt says when he talks to parents, he frames the issue very quickly.

"The issue is this," he said, "the government schools are killing our children morally, spiritually and academically. The question we confront as Christian parents is, how dead do we want our children to be?"

He says he views the issue as one of "spiritual blindness," noting that roughly 85 percent of Christians send their children to government schools.

"If you had a congregation where 85 percent of the people had a drug problem or an adultery problem, you'd hear about it from the pulpit," he said, "and yet in most churches right now, this is an issue that's not discussed."

The activist says he considers sending children to government schools as "the grossest kind of sin," saying Christians don't want to be confronted with the issue because it would be inconvenient and financially challenging to kick the public-school habit.

Both Pinckney and Shortt are involved in a ministry called Exodus Mandate, which seeks to educate Christians about the nature of public schools and encourages them to take their children out of that environment.

The resolution went to the SBC Resolutions Committee on April 29. That panel typically makes recommendations to the full convention.

Shortt says he hopes to get an up-or-down vote on the floor of the convention in Indianapolis during the event, which is slated for the second week of June.

"Whether it's voted up or down this time is really not the issue," he said. "What we have to do is simply get a hearing for the issue and begin the debate."

Shortt says a "liberal element" got control of the SBC in the '60s and '70s, but that conservatives began taking control in the 1980s. He says the new leadership repaired what he called the "theological damage that was done to the SBC," and now he is working to repair the "cultural damage." Part of that mission includes exhorting members to educate their children in a Christian manner.

"Much of the SBC leadership understands this issue now," Shortt said. "Jack Graham, who is the current president, is very supportive of Christian education."

Part of Shortt's goal, he says, is to see more Baptist schools started around the country to which members could send their children.

"It's a big job," he comment, "because we have roughly 42,000 churches affiliated with the convention and only 650 schools."

Though some homschooling advocates also shun age-segregated Christian schools, which they don't see as much different from government schools, the resolution includes the option of sending children to private, Christian institutions.

"There are people who feel called to homeschool," Short said, "and I think it's a wonderful thing if they do. I also think there are some parents who for one reason or another believe that they can't [homeschool] or would prefer not to."

Both Pinckney and Shortt plan to be at the annual meeting of the convention next month to argue for their resolution.

Shortt predicts if 10-15 percent of children are pulled from government schools, the "$500 billion behemoth" will be delegitimized and will collapse financially both results he welcomes.

If the resolution were to pass, the attorney says, it would not only "send shockwaves through the Southern Baptist Convention," but other conservatives in other denominations would take up the issue and push similar measures.

Shortt says he hopes the resolution impresses on Christians the need "to focus on rescuing our children from Pharaoh's schools."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38322

cur_deus_homo
May 4th, 2004, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by Christine

Shortt says he hopes the resolution impresses on Christians the need "to focus on rescuing our children from Pharaoh's schools."
And then they wandered in the wilderness for 40 years and worshipped other gods. Poor choice of metaphor.

Christine
May 4th, 2004, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by cur_deus_homo

And then they wandered in the wilderness for 40 years and worshipped other gods. Poor choice of metaphor.
God gave your children to you, not to the Egyptians, or in modern day case, the government. Since God gave them to you, why don't you educate them instead of sending them off to someone who's values/beliefs might be different than yours?

cur_deus_homo
May 4th, 2004, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by Christine

God gave your children to you, not to the Egyptians, or in modern day case, the government. Since God gave them to you, why don't you educate them instead of sending them off to someone who's values/beliefs might be different than yours?
I once taught 7th grade English. I have many friends who teach Junior and Senior High School and other friends who teach children with severe learning and behavior disorders and still yet more friends who teach children, some of whom are completely deaf, blind, developmentally and cognitively challenged. All of these people teach in public schools, and all of them are strong, faithful Christians living out their Christian values in the public arena.

Public schools are a gift from God. The public has a responsibility to provide for the education of the children of our society, wether they have children or not. We might complain about the lousy condition of the roads, but the solution is not to say, "Hey, these roads are terrible, let's build our own roads that only those people whom we allow to can use them." No, we try hard to make the public system better than it is because it is for all people, regardless of race, creed, color, etc.

I am worried that if Christians start to yank their kids out of public schools en masse they run the risk of ghettoizing their children and will in the end put dangerous blinders on them. The world is not "Christian." The US is not "Christian." The purpose of the Christian message is to bring hope to a dark and desparate world, not to bring comfort and safety to ourselves at the exclusion of others, nor is it to create a "Christian" state or system.

firechyld
May 4th, 2004, 06:56 PM
God gave your children to you, not to the Egyptians, or in modern day case, the government. Since God gave them to you, why don't you educate them instead of sending them off to someone who's values/beliefs might be different than yours?

Homeschooling is a lot rarer over here. There's a lot about it that I don't understand.

How do you deal with the fact that no parent is a trained teacher in every area? How does a parent who focussed on English and Humanities in high school and university give a teenager a decent grasp of advanced mathematics?

ShadowMaid
May 4th, 2004, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by firechyld

Homeschooling is a lot rarer over here. There's a lot about it that I don't understand.

How do you deal with the fact that no parent is a trained teacher in every area? How does a parent who focussed on English and Humanities in high school and university give a teenager a decent grasp of advanced mathematics?

The curriculum explains (or it should!) everything. If the student if having a problem, the parent can look at the book, and/or teachers guild, and walk them through it. If you buy a curriculum, it should have everything already inside of them. But certain curriculums have different things. You have to look for the curriculum that meets your standards.

ShadowMaid
May 4th, 2004, 07:14 PM
Hope that helped. :)

firechyld
May 4th, 2004, 07:22 PM
What if it's something like (we call it 4-Unit math... the super advanced stuff)... the kind of thing you need to understand to explain?

What about advanced physics? How do you make up for the fact that you don't have a science lab?

Art or music? Things that can't be learnt from books?

Sorry about all the questions... I went to an academically selective high school. While I adore my parents, and know that they're very intelligent, they couldn't have taught me everything i learnt at school.

Christine
May 4th, 2004, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by ShadowMaid

The curriculum explains (or it should!) everything. If the student if having a problem, the parent can look at the book, and/or teachers guild, and walk them through it. If you buy a curriculum, it should have everything already inside of them. But certain curriculums have different things. You have to look for the curriculum that meets your standards.
:thumb: That's why one curriculum isn't right for every family. Every one has to decide what is best for their needs.

ebenz47037
May 4th, 2004, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by firechyld

Homeschooling is a lot rarer over here. There's a lot about it that I don't understand.

How do you deal with the fact that no parent is a trained teacher in every area? How does a parent who focussed on English and Humanities in high school and university give a teenager a decent grasp of advanced mathematics?

I don't know about all other homeschooling parents. But, if I find something that I just can't teach, I hire a tutor to teach my daughter that subject. I've only had to do that once so far and that was when :jessilu: wanted to learn geology.

Christine
May 4th, 2004, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by firechyld

What if it's something like (we call it 4-Unit math... the super advanced stuff)... the kind of thing you need to understand to explain?
Well, with the math program I use (Saxon) you can buy CD-Roms that have a teacher on their explaining every single concept. This way, if you just don't "get it" it can be explained.


What about advanced physics? How do you make up for the fact that you don't have a science lab?
I might take advanced physics next year (either that or advanced biology, still trying to decide). The program I use only requires household items to be used for experiments. For there chemistry courses, you can buy the lab equipment.


Art or music? Things that can't be learnt from books?
Drawing an other skills similiar can. Music lessons could be taken outside the home, or video course.


Sorry about all the questions... I went to an academically selective high school. While I adore my parents, and know that they're very intelligent, they couldn't have taught me everything i learnt at school.
That's ok

Art Deco
May 4th, 2004, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by cur_deus_homo I am worried that if Christians start to yank their kids out of public schools en masse they run the risk of ghettoizing their children and will in the end put dangerous blinders on them. The world is not "Christian." The US is not "Christian." The purpose of the Christian message is to bring hope to a dark and desparate world, not to bring comfort and safety to ourselves at the exclusion of others, nor is it to create a "Christian" state or system.


I don't think you're worried at all. You should applaud the Southern Baptists for finally understanding the damage a Secular Humanist anti-God world view does to impressionable Christian young people. I think it's great. Kick public education to the curb. Let the Secular Humanists and their pagan friends pay for a pagan education. That's what they wanted...seperation of Church and State and all that...LOL. Let's give them seperation of Church and State.

Lucky
May 4th, 2004, 07:52 PM
Baptist activists: Pull kids out of school
Resolution urges members to reject government education
:BRAVO:

That's really great news. The Southern Baptist Convention is pretty much the largest non-Catholic denomination in America.

firechyld
May 4th, 2004, 07:54 PM
Do any of you support home schooling for non-religious reasons?

Living4Him
May 4th, 2004, 08:24 PM
I have four boys 10, 7, 3 1/2, and 2 years old. The older two are in a public school. So far from what I have seen in thier school is alot based on scripture to a limit. They have prayer and their rules are basicly on love thy neighbor. And they promote it freely. But the town I live in is small (but growing):( and I would say the mojarity is Christian. Our governor is a Christian and he speaks it freely. But I know a good thing can not last forever in these days. I would like to get some information on homeschooling as in what is needed and who to get in contact with.

Christine
May 4th, 2004, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by Living4Him

I have four boys 10, 7, 3 1/2, and 2 years old. The older two are in a public school. So far from what I have seen in thier school is alot based on scripture to a limit. They have prayer and their rules are basicly on love thy neighbor. And they promote it freely. But the town I live in is small (but growing):( and I would say the mojarity is Christian. Our governor is a Christian and he speaks it freely. But I know a good thing can not last forever in these days. I would like to get some information on homeschooling as in what is needed and who to get in contact with.
Congratulations for deciding to look into it. www.hslda.org can give you the leagal info, the laws in your state, what's required, etc. Also, www.triviumpursuit.com tells you about the classical homeschooling method. www.vegsource.com/homeschool is a good place to buy used materials.

Nineveh
May 4th, 2004, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by Art Deco

I don't think you're worried at all. You should applaud the Southern Baptists for finally understanding the damage a Secular Humanist anti-God world view does to impressionable Christian young people. I think it's great. Kick public education to the curb. Let the Secular Humanists and their pagan friends pay for a pagan education. That's what they wanted...seperation of Church and State and all that...LOL. Let's give them seperation of Church and State.

I was just wondering what might happen if enough kids escaped federal pris...public school. Somehow I can't imagine the taxes being lowered. Perhaps they would use the left over funds from vacancies to ram through the "all day kindergarten" and/or "mandatory kindergarten" programs...

Oh yeah and .. GO! SBC!! :bannana: :jump: :BRAVO:

Poly
May 4th, 2004, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by Christine

Congratulations for deciding to look into it. www.hslda.org can give you the leagal info, the laws in your state, what's required, etc. Also, www.triviumpursuit.com tells you about the classical homeschooling method. www.vegsource.com/homeschool is a good place to buy used materials.
Christine, you're awesome! It's so great that you know to offer this kind of information and help when asked about homeschooling. :thumb:

Crow
May 4th, 2004, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by firechyld

What if it's something like (we call it 4-Unit math... the super advanced stuff)... the kind of thing you need to understand to explain?

What about advanced physics? How do you make up for the fact that you don't have a science lab?

Art or music? Things that can't be learnt from books?

Sorry about all the questions... I went to an academically selective high school. While I adore my parents, and know that they're very intelligent, they couldn't have taught me everything i learnt at school.

firechyld, the homeschoolers I know don't exist in a vaccum. They interact with other homeschoolers, and many teach each other's children, through face-to-face meetings, by phone, and on computer, in many instances.

Homeschool parents educate themselves as well as their kids because they have made a commitment to personally see that their kids are educated.

There are resources for kids in advanced areas. Many colleges in the US offer advanced placement classes. My sister's daughter took college algebra and physics at the age of 15. She was not homeschooled, but her abilities exceeded the ability of the local public school to adequately accomodate. This option is open to homeschoolers as well. My sister's daughter had earned a year and a half of college credit by the time she graduated from high school.

The homeschool kids I know as a whole are much better educated than the public school kids I know. I was in the top 10 percent of my public high school, and it wasn't because of the teachers, but because my father saw to it that HE educated me. Sure, I went to public school, but it was my father who taught me to read the encyclopedia before I even hit kindergarten, (and I'm dyslexic!) astronomy from the time I was 3, multiplication and division {with dried beans on the kitchen table) by the time I was 5, history long before it raised it's head in public school, geology (fossil digs from the age 4 on) and a host of other subjects.

Sure, I went to public school. In the 60's and early 70's homeschooling was not as practical is it is for parents today. And I did learn some things in public school. I learned how to bend glass with bunsen burners and make bongs and pipes in Chemsitry class. I learned that most of my peers were boorish and ill-behaved boors who never read Twain, or Voltaire, nor much of anything that wasn't required. And I learned all of the best places to hide out and skip classes because I was bored to death from going over material I had learned at home years before.

firechyld
May 5th, 2004, 12:04 AM
I was early educated as well... could read well before anyone else, skipped a few things, stuff like that. That's why I was sent to the selective school. Even then, I took English and Math a few years in advance.

I'm not meaning to put homeschooling down... if homeschooling circles weren't so Christo-centric, I'd consider it for any future mini-mes that appear. I'm just curious... like I said, it's a lot rarer here.

The NSW high school curiculum just underwent a massive change... the subjects being taught now didn't exist a few years back. How do you deal with things like that?

I understand the thing about getting a tutor for things you can't teach, but how do you establish what those things are?

ebenz47037
May 5th, 2004, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by Crow

firechyld, the homeschoolers I know don't exist in a vaccum. They interact with other homeschoolers, and many teach each other's children, through face-to-face meetings, by phone, and on computer, in many instances.

Homeschool parents educate themselves as well as their kids because they have made a commitment to personally see that their kids are educated.

There are resources for kids in advanced areas. Many colleges in the US offer advanced placement classes. My sister's daughter took college algebra and physics at the age of 15. She was not homeschooled, but her abilities exceeded the ability of the local public school to adequately accomodate. This option is open to homeschoolers as well. My sister's daughter had earned a year and a half of college credit by the time she graduated from high school.

The homeschool kids I know as a whole are much better educated than the public school kids I know. I was in the top 10 percent of my public high school, and it wasn't because of the teachers, but because my father saw to it that HE educated me. Sure, I went to public school, but it was my father who taught me to read the encyclopedia before I even hit kindergarten, (and I'm dyslexic!) astronomy from the time I was 3, multiplication and division {with dried beans on the kitchen table) by the time I was 5, history long before it raised it's head in public school, geology (fossil digs from the age 4 on) and a host of other subjects.

Sure, I went to public school. In the 60's and early 70's homeschooling was not as practical is it is for parents today. And I did learn some things in public school. I learned how to bend glass with bunsen burners and make bongs and pipes in Chemsitry class. I learned that most of my peers were boorish and ill-behaved boors who never read Twain, or Voltaire, nor much of anything that wasn't required. And I learned all of the best places to hide out and skip classes because I was bored to death from going over material I had learned at home years before.

You sure you didn't live in California? :chuckle: We weren't allowed to use the bunsen burners because someone used them to make bongs and pipes about five years before I was in Chemistry. :chuckle:

firechyld
May 5th, 2004, 12:15 AM
Kids used to make bongs in my art class. We got some pretty elaborate ones. As Dennis Leary once said:

"Marijuana doesn't lead to other drugs. It leads to f*ing carpentry!"

ebenz47037
May 5th, 2004, 12:44 AM
Okay. Firechyld, let me show the difference between public schools when I was a child and public schools when my daughter was old enough, in California.

In 1974, I started kindergarten already knowing how to read, write, and do basic math. I also knew my colors and how to count to one hundred. I had either taught myself or been taught by a babysitter all of this before I was four years old. And, I didn't start kindergarten until I was almost six.

In 1995, my daughter started kindergarten in a private school already knowing how to read at a fifth or sixth grade level, how to write in cursive (not printing) any word you gave her, and knowing how to multiply and divide. Although I place a very high emphasis on learning throughout life, I cannot take credit for any of this. My daughter taught herself all of this before she was four. And, she did not start kindergarten until she was almost six.

Now, when I was in school, the teachers looked at what I could do and adjusted my work accordingly. When something was too easy for me, they would give me something harder or assign me to help students that were having problems understanding the work. My entire school life was pretty much like this until I graduated high school.

My daughter's experience was completely different. She was not allowed to get harder work and was told to, "Sit down, shut up, and not bother anyone," by the teacher.

My husband and I talked to the principal about this and they switched her to another class. Things went a little better. Whenever my daughter finished her work, the teacher would give her a book to read (usually an encyclopedia). By the time she finished kindergarten, she had finished the entire set of Encyclopedia Britanica.

In first grade, I never heard a word from the teacher about my daughter doing anything wrong until the last two weeks of school. But, everyday, she would come home and tell me that the work was too easy and that the teacher made her read whenever she finished her work early. The last two weeks of the school year, her teacher started telling me that :jessilu: was having a problem focussing on things after she was finished with her work. :doh: What do you expect? She had read every book in the classroom and was bored to tears. I sat in on a class because the teacher would not quit complaining. What I saw cleared up the whole thing to me. :jessilu: finished her work for the entire day by the time she was in school for two hours. The teacher pulled out their reading book and started asking questions about the story they were assigned. :jessilu: raised her hand to answer every question and the teacher would turn her back on her and get the answer from another child. I asked the teacher about it and she said that she didn't believe that :jessilu: had really read the story so she wouldn't choose her. So, I borrowed the teacher's book to ask the same questions she had asked the class. :jessilu: answered every one of them correctly. The teacher shrugged her shoulders and walked out of the room. I went to the principal's office and withdrew my daughter from that school immediately. I was not going to allow my husband to pay what he was for a teacher to treat my daughter the way this one did.

We basically fooled around for the last two weeks of school and for the summer. Then, we decided to try public school for second grade. That lasted all of one month. By the end of the month, the teacher told me that I shouldn't have allowed my daughter to learn to read before she completed kindergarten and suggested that I homeschool her because public schools could not deal with children that intelligent.

That is why I started homeschooling. It's turned into a moral/religious thing over the years as I've seen schools wherever I've been get more and more violent and heard of kids getting more disrespectful to adults and to each other.

During that first year of homeschooling, I was scared to death. I did not think that I was qualified to teach my daughter. She wanted to learn things that I had never learned about in school. When she wanted to learn about geology (which I had never bothered learning about in my life), my husband and I hired a tutor for her. When she wanted to learn astronomy, I looked into online classes.

I can tell you now, that as far as what she has to have in order to get into a college, I can teach her pretty much everything. I took AP classes in high school and, believe it or not, I remember everything I learned. I pretty much have a photographic memory. I read encyclopedias to relax. I can teach her math from algebra to calculus and science from physical science to physics. I can teach her all four years of English and literature, history, and music. I can teach her Spanish because I pretty much grew up in a Spanish-speaking area. It's almost a second language to me. I can buy lab equipment and dissecting samples from a school supply dealer.

If I get stuck or she wants to learn something that I know absolutely nothing about, I will hire a tutor. Right now, she's talking about wanting to learn welding and auto repair. I am not mechanically inclined at all. But, I've already talked to a few mechanics and have three who are willing to take her on as an apprentice as soon as she turns fifteen (legal working age here). If she wants to learn more about art, there are art classes with the college or the YMCA. If she wants to go into a sport, I'll have to go through the county if possible. For physical education, she has horseback riding right now. We may go back into karate later.

Did I answer your questions? I don't know if these answers are good enough for you. But, they're all I have for you. You don't have to homeschool for religious reasons. God knows that's not why I started homeschooling. Homeschooled children, in my opinion, tend to be smarter and more respectful than public schooled children. They tend to be able to get along well with all age groups as opposed to the group they're stuck with for six hours a day, one hundred eighty days a year.

firechyld
May 5th, 2004, 01:00 AM
Thanks, Nori. That was really thorough. :)

It's all theoretical at the moment, since I have no immediate plans to breed. However, I have considered homeschooling... I'm hoping to get into faculty and research, so it might fit in well with my lifestyle. My main aversion was that most homeschoolers seem to homeschool because of religious reasons, and I wouldn't want to unintentionally force my child into a religious clique... especially one I don't adhere to!

I had similar problems to your daughter in primary school... high school was slightly better, but the damage had been done.

firechyld
May 5th, 2004, 01:03 AM
Does your daughter have many friends she hasn't met through homeschooling or church?

ebenz47037
May 5th, 2004, 01:07 AM
Originally posted by firechyld

Thanks, Nori. That was really thorough. :)

It's all theoretical at the moment, since I have no immediate plans to breed. However, I have considered homeschooling... I'm hoping to get into faculty and research, so it might fit in well with my lifestyle. My main aversion was that most homeschoolers seem to homeschool because of religious reasons, and I wouldn't want to unintentionally force my child into a religious clique... especially one I don't adhere to!

I had similar problems to your daughter in primary school... high school was slightly better, but the damage had been done.

You're welcome. :) As you can tell, this subject is near and dear to me. There is a newsgroup with google groups (used to be with deja) called misc.education.home-school.misc. The people on that list are from all walks of life and pretty much all religious backgrounds (wiccan, atheist, Christian, etc). If you have any questions about homeschooling, I'm sure you'll be able to get help there if I can't help you out.

firechyld
May 5th, 2004, 01:08 AM
I think I'll leave the actual research until I'm at lease planning to have a child, but you've put the seed in my head. :)

ebenz47037
May 5th, 2004, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by firechyld

Does your daughter have many friends she hasn't met through homeschooling or church?

Oh my! Yes. She's got friends that she met when I taught Spanish at a private school here. And, she meets kids at the library. And, there are all of our neighbors' kids. :) She rides horses at one of my neighbors' house. He likes to have the kids and their parents come over on the weekends (this is the neighbor who supplies us with fresh venison every winter). :chuckle: We live around the corner from a Girl Scout camp. So, every summer, she meets a new bunch of girls that go camping there. The Girl Scout leaders usually ask her to teach the girls how to hunt crawdads or something similar. Our dogs help her make friends as well. We have three collies. And, out here, everyone loves collies. So, people will stop as they're driving down our road to ask about them. :)

Then, there are also the girls that she's met from TOL. ;)

ebenz47037
May 5th, 2004, 01:17 AM
Originally posted by firechyld

I think I'll leave the actual research until I'm at lease planning to have a child, but you've put the seed in my head. :)

I love homeschooling my daughter! I've seen how so many girls the same age "hate" their mothers. :jessilu: and I are much closer. And, the one-on-one teacher/student ration is better in my opinion.

Art Deco
May 5th, 2004, 05:59 AM
Originally posted by Nineveh

I was just wondering what might happen if enough kids escaped federal pris...public school. Somehow I can't imagine the taxes being lowered. Perhaps they would use the left over funds from vacancies to ram through the "all day kindergarten" and/or "mandatory kindergarten" programs...

Oh yeah and .. GO! SBC!! :bannana: :jump: :BRAVO:


Nineveh, I sense the rustle of the "wind of change." God may be about answering prayers. 2 Chronicles 7:14 "If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


Public Education has been the delivery system for the poison of Secular Humanism for over 100 years. Look around and see the result, moral perversity and social chaos.

Nineveh
May 5th, 2004, 06:46 AM
Originally posted by Art Deco

Nineveh, I sense the rustle of the "wind of change." God may be about answering prayers. 2 Chronicles 7:14 "If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

If TOL had a vote today, you would be my first choice in the "eternally optimisitc" catagory :) I hope the trend to break kids out of fed school continues, but here in Indiana, the more kids that flee the fed, the more "in debt" they seem to be and the more kindergarten programs they seem to want.


Public Education has been the delivery system for the poison of Secular Humanism for over 100 years. Look around and see the result, moral perversity and social chaos.

Amen.

Christine
May 5th, 2004, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by Poly

Christine, you're awesome! It's so great that you know to offer this kind of information and help when asked about homeschooling. :thumb:
Thanks :Poly: here are some more sites. www.abeka.com publishes homeschooling curriculum for all 12 grades plus kindergarten and pre-school. They also offer correspondence programs. http://www.highschoolscience.com/ publishes high school, junior high, and even some elementary science books. (I use this one and think it's great). http://www.bju.edu/index also publishes homeschool curriculum and textbooks, but I think they offer more electives than Abeka (I've never used BJU, but others on TOL have). www.sonlight.com is really neat, you use children's book as the reading and history texts. www.christianbook.com sells homeschooling materials, some at discount prices.

Living4Him
May 5th, 2004, 07:34 AM
Originally posted by Christine

Congratulations for deciding to look into it. www.hslda.org can give you the leagal info, the laws in your state, what's required, etc. Also, www.triviumpursuit.com tells you about the classical homeschooling method. www.vegsource.com/homeschool is a good place to buy used materials.

Thanks so much! I will copy this and look into it soon. I have thought about this for a few years but now that this report from the Southern Baptist has come out I am thinking about it more. I will be praying about it. Thanks again!

Nineveh
May 5th, 2004, 07:43 AM
( I can vouch for ABeka, their DVD curriculum is awsome :) )

Christine
May 5th, 2004, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by Nineveh

( I can vouch for ABeka, their DVD curriculum is awsome :) )
I use Abeka textbooks for history and English (grammar, spelling, and literature). :)

Christine
May 5th, 2004, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by Living4Him

Thanks so much! I will copy this and look into it soon. I have thought about this for a few years but now that this report from the Southern Baptist has come out I am thinking about it more. I will be praying about it. Thanks again!
Don't forget my second post, which had even more links.

avatar382
May 5th, 2004, 08:34 AM
My ex-roomate in college was homeschooled. One of the smartest, most educated guys I ever knew. Both of his parents were highly educated, the father had advanced degrees in math and literature (the guy was a playwright) and the mother had a degree in English and education. He finished his high school curriculum super early and went to college at the age of 16.

My own parents didn't have the means to homeschool me or to send me to a private school, so I got a public education. Not that that's a bad thing - my public school had tons of opportinties - I joined the track, badminton and swim teams, math, science, english, and national honor societies, attended national competitions in TSA (technology student association) and took and passed 10 AP classes, good for 30 college credits (a full year!)

Like anything else, public school is what you make of it. There are plenty of opportunites for the motivated to get ahead and advance themselves, as there are plenty of opportunities for the apathetic/lost to dig themselves ever deeper into a hole. Much like the real world.

cur_deus_homo
May 5th, 2004, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by Art Deco

You should applaud the Southern Baptists for finally understanding the damage a Secular Humanist anti-God world view does to impressionable Christian young people.
Any damage done is the responsibility of Christian parents who want to shelter their children from the real world, which is not Christian, and it is also their responsibility because many Christian parents do a horrible job discipling their children and training them in the ways of righteousness, including members of the SBC.

If we Christians were truly raising strong, mature Christian children, grounded in faith in Jesus, we wouldn't have to worry about the Secular Humanist Devil corrupting our children as you suggest. Christians would be influencing the public arena in positive ways instead of claiming that some kind of retreat to the ghetto of the "church" is the solution. Such a retreat is anti-Christ and anti-Great Commission.

JoyfulRook
May 5th, 2004, 11:54 AM
Go Baptist Pastor! :bannana: :clap:

JoyfulRook
May 5th, 2004, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by cur_deus_homo

Any damage done is the responsibility of Christian parents who want to shelter their children from the real world, which is not Christian, and it is also their responsibility because many Christian parents do a horrible job discipling their children and training them in the ways of righteousness, including members of the SBC.

If we Christians were truly raising strong, mature Christian children, grounded in faith in Jesus, we wouldn't have to worry about the Secular Humanist Devil corrupting our children as you suggest. Christians would be influencing the public arena in positive ways instead of claiming that some kind of retreat to the ghetto of the "church" is the solution. Such a retreat is anti-Christ and anti-Great Commission.
So you if living in Israel during the Biblical times, you would send your kids to the Philistine school down the road? Smart. :chuckle: BTW: The Great Commission was for Israel, not the Body.

ebenz47037
May 5th, 2004, 01:25 PM
cdh, I don't homeschool because of the secular humanist education my daughter would get if she were in public school. Read post number 23 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=517297#post517297) in this thread to see my reasons for homeschooling. It started out having absolutely nothing to do with my religion.


Originally posted by cur_deus_homo

Any damage done is the responsibility of Christian parents who want to shelter their children from the real world, which is not Christian, and it is also their responsibility because many Christian parents do a horrible job discipling their children and training them in the ways of righteousness, including members of the SBC.

Yes. And, the responsibility for the damage that occurs because of the children being in public school falls on the parents who choose to send them there. Parents, in general, are in trouble nowadays. Leave off religion for a minute. The government now tells us that we cannot physically discipline our children. When I was growing up, I knew that if I did something wrong, I would have to face my parents and more than likely get a spanking. Now, kids don't have to worry about that because the schools are teaching them, "If anyone, including your parents, ever hits you, call the police." That doesn't sound right to me. I have never beaten my daughter. But, I have spanked her for doing what she knew was wrong.

Training our children in the ways of righteousness includes teaching them that there are consequences for making the decision to do something that they know is wrong. In today's society, it is almost possible to teach our children that.


If we Christians were truly raising strong, mature Christian children, grounded in faith in Jesus, we wouldn't have to worry about the Secular Humanist Devil corrupting our children as you suggest. Christians would be influencing the public arena in positive ways instead of claiming that some kind of retreat to the ghetto of the "church" is the solution. Such a retreat is anti-Christ and anti-Great Commission.

That's true for a lot of people. But, it's not true for everyone. The week after I decided to homeschool my daughter, her teacher's ex-husband came to the school with a gun and held the class hostage because he wanted his wife to come back to him. I didn't live in a huge city where you expect to see people bring guns to school. That event there, told me that I had made the right decision for my daughter, even though I made the decision based solely on our academic situation. About a year or so ago, my sister sent me a newspaper article about the high school my daughter would have attended next year if I had stayed in California and decided to continue with public school. Fifteen percent of the female students were pregnant, two percent of the students had one STD or another, forty-three percent of the senior class could not pass a reading proficiency test, and four female teachers had been raped by students. Does that sound like a place where Christian parents should put their children? Should I place my daughter's education in the hands of people who cannot teach children to read in seventeen years? Should I place my daughter's safety in the hands of people who cannot protect their own employees?

I say no. My daughter is not isolated from the world. And, neither is any homeschooled child that I've ever met. From my own experience, homeschooled children tend to be better prepared for real life after their education. I say that homeschooled children are better off because their parents take an active role in their everyday lives and make sure that they are safe.

Gerald
May 5th, 2004, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by ebenz47037
When I was growing up, I knew that if I did something wrong, I would have to face my parents and more than likely get a spanking.Lucky you.

For me, it was bruised ribs, or a piece of kitchenware hurtling toward my skull...

On Fire
May 5th, 2004, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by Gerald

Lucky you.

For me, it was bruised ribs, or a piece of kitchenware hurtling toward my skull...

This is the breakthrough I've been waiting for. Explains a lot.

Gerald
May 5th, 2004, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by AtheistsSuck
This is the breakthrough I've been waiting for. Explains a lot. Indeed?

How about sharing some of your insight?

Lighthouse
May 6th, 2004, 01:26 AM
Somebody has to evangelize the public schools. Who's going to do it? I did, while I was there.

CryTears
May 6th, 2004, 04:42 AM
Originally posted by Gerald

Lucky you.

For me, it was bruised ribs, or a piece of kitchenware hurtling toward my skull...


are you just kidding Gerald? Was your mom that much of a witch?
or are you serious?
That brings up one problem with homeschooled children. If they had abusive parents they would not have the 8 hour reprieve of school. :cry:

CryTears
May 6th, 2004, 04:45 AM
Bravo to the Souther Baptists!

Until people pull their children out of school and the schools go bankcrupt then will they get the message.

Gerald
May 6th, 2004, 05:19 AM
Originally posted by CryTears
are you just kidding Gerald? Was your mom that much of a witch?
or are you serious?I joke about many things, but that is not one of them.

CryTears
May 6th, 2004, 05:31 AM
Lets start a "Joan Crawford Moms" thread. I want to talk about the subject.

Christine
May 6th, 2004, 06:52 AM
Originally posted by lighthouse

Somebody has to evangelize the public schools. Who's going to do it? I did, while I was there.
Why do the public schools need evanglelized? And even if they did (which I doubt) why should it be the job of inexperienced children?

Art Deco
May 6th, 2004, 07:03 AM
Originally posted by cur_deus_homo

Any damage done is the responsibility of Christian parents who want to shelter their children from the real world, which is not Christian, and it is also their responsibility because many Christian parents do a horrible job discipling their children and training them in the ways of righteousness, including members of the SBC.

If we Christians were truly raising strong, mature Christian children, grounded in faith in Jesus, we wouldn't have to worry about the Secular Humanist Devil corrupting our children as you suggest. Christians would be influencing the public arena in positive ways instead of claiming that some kind of retreat to the ghetto of the "church" is the solution. Such a retreat is anti-Christ and anti-Great Commission.


There is much truth to what you say, however, far from retreating to the shelter of the Church as you suggest, I see this "Christian Education Resolution" by the SBC as a call to arms and frontal attack on the purveyor of Secular Humanism, (Public Schools).

This may be the vanguard of a new spiritual revival. God does answer prayers.

Gerald
May 6th, 2004, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by Art Deco
This may be the vanguard of a new spiritual revival. God does answer prayers. Well, I know some people's prayers haven't been answered, because I'm still drawing breath...:chuckle:

ebenz47037
May 6th, 2004, 07:19 AM
Originally posted by CryTears

Lets start a "Joan Crawford Moms" thread. I want to talk about the subject.

Do it yourself. It's a subject I don't like to talk about.

CryTears
May 6th, 2004, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by ebenz47037

Do it yourself. It's a subject I don't like to talk about.

I was talking to Gerald. Not you. Did I accidently post on your post?

ebenz47037
May 6th, 2004, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by CryTears

I was talking to Gerald. Not you. Did I accidently post on your post?

No. Sorry. I had just got up when I posted that. And, I had a bad night. I didn't sleep much. And, what little bit I did sleep was full of nightmares.

CryTears
May 6th, 2004, 08:11 AM
:thumb:

I did that the other day, LUCKILY I have forgotten what the nightmare was.

ebenz47037
May 6th, 2004, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by CryTears

:thumb:

I did that the other day, LUCKILY I have forgotten what the nightmare was.

My nightmares tend to be either about my daughter or about my childhood.

Gerald
May 6th, 2004, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by ebenz47037
My nightmares tend to be either about my daughter or about my childhood. I never remember my dreams; I've occasionally wondered if I dream at all.

I figure I must, because everybody else does...

And, regarding Joan Crawford-oids, I think I shall opt out of that discussion.

ebenz47037
May 6th, 2004, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by Gerald

And, regarding Joan Crawford-oids, I think I shall opt out of that discussion.

Don't blame you one bit.

cur_deus_homo
May 6th, 2004, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by Dread Helm

So you if living in Israel during the Biblical times, you would send your kids to the Philistine school down the road?
What an anachronism!

BTW: The Great Commission was for Israel, not the Body.
So, as a gentile believer I am not commissioned by Jesus at the end of Matthew's gospel to preach the Gospel to all the nations? :think:

cur_deus_homo
May 6th, 2004, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by Art Deco

There is much truth to what you say, however, far from retreating to the shelter of the Church as you suggest, I see this "Christian Education Resolution" by the SBC as a call to arms and frontal attack on the purveyor of Secular Humanism, (Public Schools).
Eh? How is a withdrawl a frontal attack?

Chileice
May 6th, 2004, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by cur_deus_homo

Eh? How is a withdrawl a frontal attack?

The same way hate is love, you know, simple:doh:

cur_deus_homo
May 6th, 2004, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by ebenz47037

I say that homeschooled children are better off because their parents take an active role in their everyday lives and make sure that they are safe.
Exactly: "because their parents take an active role in their everyday lives..." That's the difference.

Thanks for sharing your situation. I agree with much of what you said. You made a personal decision that was right for you because of some very special and tragic circumstances.

My problem with the SBC resolution is that if followed through to its logical conclusion it will lead to segregation, though along secular lines this time instead of racial lines. My worry is not that millions of homeschoolers will arise from any mass migration from public schools. My worry is that we will create an even more classist system than we already have. And such classism is not harmonious with the Christian ideals of meeting social needs.

JoyfulRook
May 6th, 2004, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by lighthouse

Somebody has to evangelize the public schools. Who's going to do it? I did, while I was there. THat must be why you turned out so liberal. :rolleyes:

ec_money
May 6th, 2004, 07:31 PM
Wow, for once I agree with the Southern Baptists. I believe that the scriptures make the responsible ruling of one's household a condition for leadership, so I think they are right to demand that Southern Baptist leaders give their kids a specifically Christian education.

Gerald
May 7th, 2004, 06:33 AM
Originally posted by ec_money
Wow, for once I agree with the Southern Baptists. I believe that the scriptures make the responsible ruling of one's household a condition for leadership, so I think they are right to demand that Southern Baptist leaders give their kids a specifically Christian education. Then it better be specifically Biblical, in every respect. Creationism, pi equals 3, the sky is a solid dome, etc.

Christine
May 7th, 2004, 09:45 AM
I agree with the SBC, but I think they compromised to much. They shouldn't have allowed Christian schools. Homeschooling should be the only option.

Living4Him
May 7th, 2004, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by Christine

I agree with the SBC, but I think they compromised to much. They shouldn't have allowed Christian schools. Homeschooling should be the only option.

That would be in a perfect world, I think. I am thinking of homeschooling my children. I have only done a little research and its going to cost alot of money, to us, that right now we do not have. Having four children and only one income has made us very limited but I do know that if this is the will of God for my children then He will provide. But not everyone in this world can afford to do these things or they are not in a good position to do this. So I guess I am saying that I disagree with you about the SBC compromising. I believe they are looking at the whole of the church and considering a fair balance.:)

Christine
May 7th, 2004, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by Living4Him

That would be in a perfect world, I think. I am thinking of homeschooling my children. I have only done a little research and its going to cost alot of money, to us, that right now we do not have. Having four children and only one income has made us very limited but I do know that if this is the will of God for my children then He will provide. But not everyone in this world can afford to do these things or they are not in a good position to do this. So I guess I am saying that I disagree with you about the SBC compromising. I believe they are looking at the whole of the church and considering a fair balance.:)
Did you check out www.vegsource.com/homeschool ? You can buy lots of used stuff there. Also, I sell used materials. You can save a bundle buying used.

ebenz47037
May 7th, 2004, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by Living4Him

That would be in a perfect world, I think. I am thinking of homeschooling my children. I have only done a little research and its going to cost alot of money, to us, that right now we do not have. Having four children and only one income has made us very limited but I do know that if this is the will of God for my children then He will provide. But not everyone in this world can afford to do these things or they are not in a good position to do this. So I guess I am saying that I disagree with you about the SBC compromising. I believe they are looking at the whole of the church and considering a fair balance.:)

Feel free to PM or e-mail me if you need any advice and/or help. I made a lot of my curriculum for the first half of our homeschooling life. I'm more than willing to help you out if you need it.

firechyld
May 9th, 2004, 07:14 PM
I agree with the SBC, but I think they compromised to much. They shouldn't have allowed Christian schools. Homeschooling should be the only option.


I understand that it's not what you aspire to, doll, but some families simply cannot afford to homeschool. It may cost less compared to school fees, but a homeschooling family is usually a single income family.

Some of us have to work to support our families.

Christine
May 9th, 2004, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by firechyld

I understand that it's not what you aspire to, doll, but some families simply cannot afford to homeschool. It may cost less compared to school fees, but a homeschooling family is usually a single income family.

Some of us have to work to support our families.
I understand where your coming from, but I firmly believe that anyone who wants to homeschool can/will find a way. FYI, my family is a single income "below poverty level" family. But, we still find a way to homeschool.

firechyld
May 9th, 2004, 08:25 PM
I understand where your coming from, but I firmly believe that anyone who wants to homeschool can/will find a way. FYI, my family is a single income "below poverty level" family. But, we still find a way to homeschool.


I agree with you... but I still think other options should exist and should be accepted.

Lucky
May 9th, 2004, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by Christine

FYI, my family is a single income "below poverty level" family. But, we still find a way to homeschool.
Unfortunately, many of the Southern Baptist Church members that I know would not be willing to give up their two salaries along with the comfy-cozy, middle-class lifestyle. Even the pastor at "First Baptist" in a nearby town makes more than $75,000 a year. So I'm sure you can understand why this resolution includes private schools. If it was homeschool only, it wouldn't stand a chance. But this way, at least it's a step in the right direction.

firechyld
May 9th, 2004, 08:53 PM
Two salaries is automatically cozy now???

Maybe in the US... over here a double income family can still sit below the poverty line.

Lucky
May 9th, 2004, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by firechyld

Two salaries is automatically cozy now???
That's not what I said! :p

Art Deco
May 10th, 2004, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by cur_deus_homo

Eh? How is a withdrawl a frontal attack?


Why continue to provide Christian children for Secular Indoctrination in the public schools? Let the bind lead the blind. Sending Christian children to public schools is like trench warfare in WWI, deadly and futile.

Art Deco
May 10th, 2004, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by cur_deus_homo My problem with the SBC resolution is that if followed through to its logical conclusion it will lead to segregation, though along secular lines this time instead of racial lines. My worry is not that millions of homeschoolers will arise from any mass migration from public schools. My worry is that we will create an even more classist system than we already have. And such classism is not harmonious with the Christian ideals of meeting social needs.


C_D_H, the nation is already polarized "secular" vs. "theists." The Secular Humanist Democrat Party represents all the anti-God factions in this nation. The Republican Party has been by default, a home for religionists.

Fewer Christians to be gradually "brainwashed" into Godless secular humanists, would reduce the polarization and restore morality to its proper place in the culture.

Living4Him
May 10th, 2004, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by Christine

Did you check out www.vegsource.com/homeschool ? You can buy lots of used stuff there. Also, I sell used materials. You can save a bundle buying used.

Yes, I did look at that site for a few mins. Not sure yet where everything is or what I should be looking at. But I will probably look over it alot more. I just found out today from our school board that they lease out all materials needed. But with 3(maybe 4) younger boys I believe I would perfer to buy them. And used is most likely the way I will go.

Living4Him
May 10th, 2004, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by ebenz47037

Feel free to PM or e-mail me if you need any advice and/or help. I made a lot of my curriculum for the first half of our homeschooling life. I'm more than willing to help you out if you need it.

Thanks Ebenz! I will greatfully keep that in mind. I probably will need it! :)

ebenz47037
May 10th, 2004, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by Living4Him

Thanks Ebenz! I will greatfully keep that in mind. I probably will need it! :)

Glad to help! Just ask and, if I'm online, I will do what I can for you. I've designed a year's curriculum for my daughter at a time. And, I helped a couple of online buddies design curriculum for their preschool, kindergarten, fourth grade, and seventh grade aged children. What I do isn't perfect for everyone, but it worked for me. And, it worked for my friends.