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Poly
May 4th, 2004, 08:32 AM
There are some really mean people on this board. They don't care enough about unbelievers to warn them of the destruction that awaits them. They lie to them and lead them down the wrong path saying such things as "God loves everybody".

Psalm 5:5 "...Thou hatest all workers of iniquity"
Psalm 11:5 "The Lord trieth the righteous but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hates."

Another lie they tell is that "God hates the sin but loves the sinner".
Matthew 12:35 "A good man, out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things."
Matthew 15:11 "What comes out of the mouth defiles a man"

I often see people say that all sins are the same. But there are some sins that God really puts extra emphasis on in showing just how much he hates it such as when He refers to homosexuality as an abomination. (Leviticus 18:21-23)

It is clear that some sins are greater than others.

John 19:11 "Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin"

Luke 12: 46-48 "the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47And that servant who knew his master's will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more."

Many members appear to be loving but according to Romans 12:9, they are hypocrites.

Why would some people want to be so mean? I realize that a lot of the time it is done out of ignorance but some know that they should be more bold in speaking against wickedness but being liked by others and not offending is more important to them than truth. They want to be liked by believers as well as non-believers regardless of the fact that, according to Jesus, if you follow Him you will be hated.
Matthew 10:22 "And you will be hated by all men for my name's sake."

beanieboy
May 4th, 2004, 08:33 AM
Ok. I will change my ways.

Poly, you are so full of blinding self righteous hatred, that you are doing no good to anyone but exhaulting yourself.

Love ya.

ShadowMaid
May 4th, 2004, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by Poly

There are some really mean people on this board. They don't care enough about unbelievers to warn them of the destruction that awaits them. They lie to them and lead them down the wrong path saying such things as "God loves everybody".

Psalm 5:5 "...Thou hatest all workers of iniquity"
Psalm 11:5 "The Lord trieth the righteous but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hates."

Another lie they tell is that "God hates the sin but loves the sinner".
Matthew 12:35 "A good man, out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things."
Matthew 15:11 "What comes out of the mouth defiles a man"

I often see people say that all sins are the same. But there are some sins that God really puts extra emphasis on in showing just how much he hates it such as when He refers to homosexuality as an abomination. (Leviticus 18:21-23)

It is clear that some sins are greater than others.

John 19:11 "Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin"

Luke 12: 46-48 "the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47And that servant who knew his master's will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more."

Many members appear to be loving but according to Romans 12:9, they are hypocrites.

Why would some people want to be so mean? I realize that a lot of the time it is done out of ignorance but some know that they should be more bold in speaking against wickedness but being liked by others and not offending is more important to them than truth. They want to be liked by believers as well as non-believers regardless of the fact that, according to Jesus, if you follow Him you will be hated.
Matthew 10:22 "And you will be hated by all men for my name's sake."

:thumb:
Ya know Poly, that's what I've been taught.

Poly
May 4th, 2004, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

Ok. I will change my ways.

Poly, you are so full of blinding self righteous hatred, that you are doing no good to anyone but exhaulting yourself.

Love ya.
And those that continue to spit in the face of God until the day of judgment, we get to rejoice over when they get what's coming to them.

Psalm 58:10 "The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengence. He shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked."

Ecumenicist
May 4th, 2004, 08:41 AM
Its one thing to say "by sinning, you are hurting yourself, and God
loves you very much and doesn't want you to be hurting yourself or
others."

Its another to say "God is going to burn you in hell for all eternity if
you keep doing that."

That's a misrepresentation of who God is and why He cares about sin.

Dave

Poly
May 4th, 2004, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by Dave Miller


Its another to say "God is going to burn you in hell for all eternity if
you keep doing that."

That's a misrepresentation of who God is and why He cares about sin.

Dave

I know, Dave, your favorite verse is probably John 3:16, right? Too bad you don't have enough respect for God to read on a few more verses.

John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

philosophizer
May 4th, 2004, 08:47 AM
Meanies! :mad:

servent101
May 4th, 2004, 08:49 AM
Poly - beanieboy was concerned about you - and you spit in his face - and beanieboy knew the reply that you would give would be "gross" - yet he suffered at your hand willingly, trying to help you avoid the wrath that will come to you.

Beanieboy is more of a Christian influence where he is right now, not being a Christian than you will ever be, unless you come to your senses.

Seems the Lords words - Many will come to me on that day and say Lord, when did I see you hungry and thirsty - and the Lord replies - whatever you did to the least of my brethren - that you did unto me. These people are surprised the Lord knows them and is granting them eternal life - but as for people like you - you think you are going to the Lord, full of your piss and vinegar and are going to see people like beanieboy burn in hell - and enjoy it.... well I think you have lost it.

With Christ's Love

Servent101

adajos
May 4th, 2004, 08:55 AM
There are some really mean people on this board. They don't care enough about unbelievers to warn them of the destruction that awaits them. They lie to them and lead them down the wrong path saying such things as "God loves everybody"

Which is meaner---to warn people of their sin while still treating them as a valuable person to God, or to self-righteously use derogatory terms for them while pronouncing judgement incessantly?


Another lie they tell is that "God hates the sin but loves the sinner".
Matthew 12:35 "A good man, out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things."
Matthew 15:11 "What comes out of the mouth defiles a man"

So then why do you think Christ dined with and hung out with sinners all the time? Because He hated the sinner?

You can't just pick your "favorite" verses and jump to conclusions without considering all applicable scripture.


I often see people say that all sins are the same. But there are some sins that God really puts extra emphasis on in showing just how much he hates it such as when He refers to homosexuality as an abomination. (Leviticus 18:21-23)

It is clear that some sins are greater than others.

Some sins have more consequences than others. There may be some that God dislikes more than others. So what? Even the tiniest little sin is sufficient to make any one of us deserving of hell. So that means you, me, and homosexuals.


Why would some people want to be so mean? I realize that a lot of the time it is done out of ignorance but some know that they should be more bold in speaking against wickedness but being liked by others and not offending is more important to them than truth. They want to be liked by believers as well as non-believers regardless of the fact that, according to Jesus, if you follow Him you will be hated.
Matthew 10:22 "And you will be hated by all men for my name's sake."

Look, to the extent that brushing over and ignoring sin is not helping somebody I will agree. That is extremely harmful. It is important that sinners know they are sinning. This doesn't necessitate treating them like crap.

But the other side of that coin is not showing Christ's love to sinners because of being too busy calling them derogatory names and talking about how they make you want to vomit.

Christ associated with sinners. He didn't gloss over sin, but he loved them. The main people Christ reserved his harsh judgement for was the Pharisees who were hard-hearted, self-righteous, and should have known better than anyone else what would please God.

Ecumenicist
May 4th, 2004, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by Poly

I know, Dave, your favorite verse is probably John 3:16, right? Too bad you don't have enough respect for God to read on a few more verses.

John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Yes, condemned already. To not know God is to exist in
condemnation. Its not God's Will that we live in condemnation,
condemnation is the condition we exist in if we do not have
God in our lives.

I quote my favorite verse, God is love...

Dave

Poly
May 4th, 2004, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by adajos




So then why do you think Christ dined with and hung out with sinners all the time? Because He hated the sinner?


Because they were repentant. :doh:


You can't just pick your "favorite" verses and jump to conclusions without considering all applicable scripture.
You saying that I'm picking favorite verses and jumping to conclusions with them doesn't make it true. If you feel this way is it not more beneficial to explain how this is being done rather than just expecting people to believe this is the case simply because servent101 says so? Let's start here.


18"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

I take this verse to mean that those who do not believe in God are condemned. Please show how I am picking this verse and jumping to the conclusion I just gave.



The main people Christ reserved his harsh judgement for was the Pharisees who were hard-hearted, self-righteous, and should have known better than anyone else what would please God.

Christ reserved harsh judgement for all those who were unrepentant.

Matthew 10:34-36 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth. I came not to send peace but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be of his own household."

Lucky
May 4th, 2004, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

Ok. I will change my ways.

Poly, you are so full of blinding self righteous hatred, that you are doing no good to anyone but exhaulting yourself.

Love ya.
Does it really matter to you? It's not like you would actually change your ways if someone told you "God is love" and "God loves sinners." (Who would?) Excuses, excuses, excuses...

Poly
May 4th, 2004, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by Dave Miller

Its not God's Will that we live in condemnation,

I never said it was. It's man's.

condemnation is the condition we exist in if we do not have God in our lives.
Agreed.


I quote my favorite verse, God is love...
Big surprise there! :rolleyes:

JoyfulRook
May 4th, 2004, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by Dave Miller
I quote my favorite verse, God is love...

Dave

That's the same verse as "Judge not, and hate the sin, not the sinner." right? Book: 1 Cliche 1:1

beanieboy
May 4th, 2004, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by Lucky

Does it really matter to you? It's not like you would actually change your ways if someone told you "God is love" and "God loves sinners." (Who would?) Excuses, excuses, excuses...

Does it matter to you that Poly is a blinded, self righteous person that tries to do anything to be offensive, and in so, only exhaults herself?

Does it not bother you that christ told a parable about a pharisee in the temple saying, "I pray everyday, I tithe, I read scripture, and i'm so glad that I not like THAT sinner", and that christ said it was the latter (the repentent sinner) that he loved, and not the self righteous, self exhaulting follower and teacher of the law?

Do you not care about Poly's eternal fate?

Or are you happy to simply act like a Pharisee?

Poly
May 4th, 2004, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

Does it not bother you that christ told a parable about a pharisee in the temple saying, "I pray everyday, I tithe, I read scripture, and i'm so glad that I not like THAT sinner", and that christ said it was the latter (the repentent sinner) that he loved, and not the self righteous, self exhaulting follower and teacher of the law?


Quit insinuating things that are not true. I boast in nothing that I do. My righteousness is that of Christ alone. You may not like hearing the things that are said of God but that does not give you the right to say false things about those that warn you of the destruction that God says is awaiting you.

smaller
May 4th, 2004, 09:58 AM
What you present Poly is the CLASSIC CHRISTIAN VERSION of LOVE.

You yourself HAVE SIN and you WHINE TO OTHERS to BEHAVE OR YOU WILL BURN IN HELL FOREVER.

I call this simply YOU being a HYPOCRITE. You call it "love."

go figure.

When you have ERADICATED SIN from YOURSELF perhaps you would have a point but of course that has not happened yet so whatever...

In the meantime we see your (a)version of LOVE. This is the ABSOLUTE BEST you can come up with???

You say in effect YOU ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN ME BUT YOU, YOU, YOU will BURN BURN BURN forever in fire by God.

What a jerk you are Poly. I think any common domesticated animal has more LOVE than YOU.

smaller

beanieboy
May 4th, 2004, 10:09 AM
This is what you are asking for, isn't it Poly?
These kind of responses?

smaller
May 4th, 2004, 10:15 AM
the truth can be a little painful

Knight
May 4th, 2004, 10:19 AM
:chuckle: I like this thread Poly.

beanieboy
May 4th, 2004, 10:25 AM
Karma is a boomerang.

Poly
May 4th, 2004, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by smaller

What you present Poly is the CLASSIC CHRISTIAN VERSION of LOVE.

You yourself HAVE SIN and you WHINE TO OTHERS to BEHAVE OR YOU WILL BURN IN HELL FOREVER.


I call this simply YOU being a HYPOCRITE. You call it "love."
Ok, good for you. God says you are the hypocrite but I'm sure that matters nothing to you since you know better than He does.


When you have ERADICATED SIN from YOURSELF perhaps you would have a point but of course that has not happened yet so whatever... That's according to Tiny Tim. Christ on the other hand says that by accepting Him my sins are eradicated. Let's see, believe what Tiny says to be true or God? Sorry, gonna have to go with God on this.



In the meantime we see your (a)version of LOVE. This is the ABSOLUTE BEST you can come up with???
Well, since it comes straight from God, I'd have to give that one a big, emphatic YES!


You say in effect YOU ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN ME I did? :confused:

BUT YOU, YOU, YOU will BURN BURN BURN forever in fire by God.
Again, I, I, I am gonna have to go, go, go with God on this one. He says I won't.



What a jerk you are Poly. I think any common domesticated animal has more LOVE than YOU.
Why are you judging me, Tiny? I believe that you've been known to speak against this a time or two. Let's see, now that would make you a hypocrite, now wouldn't it?

smaller
May 4th, 2004, 10:38 AM
Ok, good for you. God says you are the hypocrite but I'm sure that matters nothing to you since you know better than He does.

I am not the one claiming God's Exclusive Love to myself though eh?

quote from smaller:
When you have ERADICATED SIN from YOURSELF perhaps you would have a point but of course that has not happened yet so whatever...


That's according to Tiny Tim.

Are you SINless Poly???


Christ on the other hand says that by accepting Him my sins are eradicated.

You are SINLESS then Poly??? Come on...just let the words cross your lips and your fingertips....


Let's see, believe what Tiny says to be true or God? Sorry, gonna have to go with God on this.

tapping, tapping....

quote from smaller:
In the meantime we see your (a)version of LOVE. This is the ABSOLUTE BEST you can come up with???


Well, since it comes straight from God, I'd have to give that one a big, emphatic YES!

Let me get this STRAIGHT now Poly. You are BOTH SINLESS and SPEAK DIRECTLY FROM GOD?

Is this correct?

quote from smaller:
You say in effect YOU ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN ME


I did?

Oh, that's right. YOU ARE SINless....I forgot...is forgetting a SIN?

quote from smaller:
BUT YOU, YOU, YOU will BURN BURN BURN forever in fire by God.


Again, I'm gonna have to go with God on this one. He says I won't.

Well of course. Why should God burn someone WHO IS SINLESS??? That's easy enough to figure out eh?

quote from smaller:
What a jerk you are Poly. I think any common domesticated animal has more LOVE than YOU.


Why are you judging me, Tiny?

Well it's just my TEMPORARY OPINION. I certainly cannot JUDGE YOU to burn in hell forever. This would be WAY BEYOND my authority because you see I HAVE SIN.


I believe that you've been known to speak against this a time or two. Let's see, now that would make you a hypocrite, now wouldn't it?

I guess opinions make hypocrites eh? Who do you think is worse?

-a hypocrite with a temporary opinion

-or one with permanent torture?

Did I mention that ring around your collar?

enjoy!

smaller

beanieboy
May 4th, 2004, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by Poly
Why are you judging me, Tiny? I believe that you've been known to speak against this a time or two. Let's see, now that would make you a hypocrite, now wouldn't it?


Waaahhh. Why are you judging me, Tiny?? Boohoo.

We are doing exactly what you called us to do, you big whiny crybaby.

Now, get off your high horse, you self exalting Pharisee.

Poly
May 4th, 2004, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

Waaahhh. Why are you judging me, Tiny?? Boohoo.



What I was doing is called "mocking" beanster. I realize with all the perverted disgusting acts you engage in, it causes your braincells to become dull but do try to keep up. :rolleyes:

smaller
May 4th, 2004, 10:45 AM
ah, words of wisdom from the SINLESS one....how refreshing....

billwald
May 4th, 2004, 10:46 AM
Dear Polly

How do you know that you are "elect?"

beanieboy
May 4th, 2004, 10:55 AM
Because Poly is mean to other people.
If the world hates you, know that even before you the world hated me.

The more hated you are, the closer you are to God.
Isn't that right, Poly?
Hitler is sitting on the right hand of God.
Or is it the left. I get those two mixed up

Servo
May 4th, 2004, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

Waaahhh. Why are you judging me, Tiny?? Boohoo.

We are doing exactly what you called us to do, you big whiny crybaby.

Now, get off your high horse, you self exalting Pharisee.

Because Poly is mean to other people.


Poly is mean.

b-boy is umm... nice?


Originally posted by beanieboy
The more hated you are, the closer you are to God.
Isn't that right, Poly?


1) The world hates God

2) Poly chooses to follow God

3) The world might end up hating Poly? Hmmm.....


Originally posted by beanieboy

Hitler is sitting on the right hand of God.
Or is it the left. I get those two mixed up

The world hated Hitler? He didn't have any followers? People didn't carry out his orders? Hitler wasn't ELECTED to office?

Hitler was on the left BTW....and not the left hand of GOD!

Clete
May 4th, 2004, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by Poly

There are some really mean people on this board. They don't care enough about unbelievers to warn them of the destruction that awaits them. They lie to them and lead them down the wrong path saying such things as "God loves everybody".

Psalm 5:5 "...Thou hatest all workers of iniquity"
Psalm 11:5 "The Lord trieth the righteous but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hates."

Another lie they tell is that "God hates the sin but loves the sinner".
Matthew 12:35 "A good man, out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things."
Matthew 15:11 "What comes out of the mouth defiles a man"

I often see people say that all sins are the same. But there are some sins that God really puts extra emphasis on in showing just how much he hates it such as when He refers to homosexuality as an abomination. (Leviticus 18:21-23)

It is clear that some sins are greater than others.

John 19:11 "Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin"

Luke 12: 46-48 "the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47And that servant who knew his master's will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more."

Many members appear to be loving but according to Romans 12:9, they are hypocrites.

Why would some people want to be so mean? I realize that a lot of the time it is done out of ignorance but some know that they should be more bold in speaking against wickedness but being liked by others and not offending is more important to them than truth. They want to be liked by believers as well as non-believers regardless of the fact that, according to Jesus, if you follow Him you will be hated.
Matthew 10:22 "And you will be hated by all men for my name's sake."

Absolutely brilliant post Poly and a great thread! :thumb:

I hope you have your seat belt on, when I posted Bob's "Nicer than God" article, I had people declaring themselves honorary homos, joining forces with Freak, and all sorts of other insane things. This subject really gets the wicked wound up like tops!

It's not a fun subject, but the message needs to be declared from the roof tops. It is an integral part of the Gospel.
God bless you!

Resting in Him,
Clete

philosophizer
May 4th, 2004, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

Karma is a boomerang.


Truth is a shotgun.

On Fire
May 4th, 2004, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by philosophizer

Truth is a shotgun. :chuckle:

On Fire
May 4th, 2004, 11:45 AM
Love is a battlefield.

beanieboy
May 4th, 2004, 11:57 AM
Many christians have a blood lust.
You are no better than murderers.
And I use a small c because I think you don't represent any of the teachings in that book.

Mean enough for ya?

philosophizer
May 4th, 2004, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by beanieboy

Many christians have a blood lust.
You are no better than murderers.
And I use a small c because I think you don't represent any of the teachings in that book.

Mean enough for ya?


Here's a simple truth:

If the teachings in "that book" are true, then a lot of people are in grave danger. And if that is true, then it would only be proper to warn them.

I'm not saying there is any one right way to do so. Some ways work on some people and not others.

But if you're, at least, thinking about what we're warning, then you'll have to either dismiss it or accept it.

If you dismiss it, then you're still in danger and we're gonna keep warning.

If you accept it, and still haven't changed course, then why? Simply for spite because you don't like our method?

Gerald
May 4th, 2004, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by Poly
There are some really mean people on this board. They don't care enough about unbelievers to warn them of the destruction that awaits them. They lie to them and lead them down the wrong path saying such things as "God loves everybody".Then there are folks like me, who actively work to move folks along that path, telling them things like "Gods, devils, miracles, it's all bunk!":devil:

Why would some people want to be so mean? I realize that a lot of the time it is done out of ignorance but some know that they should be more bold in speaking against wickedness...Talk is cheap. A good right hook is more effective.

A tire iron is even more effective.

Gerald
May 4th, 2004, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by beanieboy
Many christians have a blood lust.Izzat so? Where do they hang out?

I haven't run into a Christian yet who didn't scream "NOT IN THE FACE!!! NOT IN THE FACE!!!" when confronted with a real fight...

Lucky
May 4th, 2004, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by beanieboy

Does it matter to you that Poly is a blinded, self righteous person that tries to do anything to be offensive, and in so, only exhaults herself?
You lie like a dog. Read what she says...

Originally posted by Poly

My righteousness is that of Christ alone.
Unless you're blind, then you can clearly see she has just exalted Christ, not herself.

Does it not bother you that christ told a parable about a pharisee in the temple saying, "I pray everyday, I tithe, I read scripture, and i'm so glad that I not like THAT sinner", and that christ said it was the latter (the repentent sinner) that he loved, and not the self righteous, self exhaulting follower and teacher of the law?
Just look at your own words...

Christ said it was the latter (the repentent sinner) that he loved
Bingo! You got it. Now do you honestly believe that to be true?

beanieboy
May 4th, 2004, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by Gerald

Izzat so? Where do they hang out?

I haven't run into a Christian yet who didn't scream "NOT IN THE FACE!!! NOT IN THE FACE!!!" when confronted with a real fight...

I haven't seen many gay people wanting the government to execute christians.

beanieboy
May 4th, 2004, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Lucky
Bingo! You got it. Now do you honestly believe that to be true?

Do I think God loves the man who says, "I am a lonely sinner. Please have mercy on me, " more than the self righteous one who thinks they are better than others?

Yes.

Do you not agree that exhalting oneself is wrong, and to say, "I'm so glad I'm not like THAT person" makes you foul to God?

Gerald
May 4th, 2004, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by beanieboy
I haven't seen many gay people wanting the government to execute christians. That's because the government would take too long...:chuckle:

the Sibbie
May 4th, 2004, 12:30 PM
Great first post, Poly! :thumb:

There are many Christians and non-Christians on here that say God wants us to be always loving and tolerant of one another and never judging. But what do they say about loving God? If God hates evil and if we embrace it, is not our love toward God hypocritical? And guys like beanieboy can't understand why their lifestyle is such an offense to us.

Those of us who love God naturally desire to abhor evil. To be in true fellowship with God we would hate that which God hates. God hates wickedness and the people who act out that wickedness (i.e. people who have turned their back on God).

Another thing I realized is that in Romans 13:9 only summerizes the last five commandments into "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." But those are only the second half of the ten commandments. But what about the first half? Shouldn't loving God be the highest priority, before loving our neighbor? Moses reviews the Ten Commandments in Deuteronomy 5, then in Deuteronomy 6:5 Moses proclaims what could be considered the sum of all the Commandments "And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might."

Also we find in 1 John 2:15-17


Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
I believe "world" means the wicked people of the world. Especially since in 1 John 2:2, "world" represents a group of people instead of just the sin of the people.
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


Therefore servent101, beanieboy is not
Originally posted by servent101

...more of a Christian influence where he is right now, not being a Christian than you will ever be, unless you come to your senses.

servent101
May 4th, 2004, 12:34 PM
I vote sibbie and poly as the worst offenders of the Truth here on TOL.

The truth does hurt, I know.

With Christ's Love

Servent101

philosophizer
May 4th, 2004, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by beanieboy

Do I think God loves the man who says, "I am a lonely sinner. Please have mercy on me, " more than the self righteous one who thinks they are better than others?

Yes.

Do you not agree that exhalting oneself is wrong, and to say, "I'm so glad I'm not like THAT person" makes you foul to God?

You're kinda dancing the "meaningless dance" around the words. I'm glad I'm not a drunk. I'm glad I'm not a prostitute. I'm glad I'm not a murderer. I'm glad I'm not a rapist. None of that makes me foul to God. There's no reason why I shouldn't be glad not to be those things.

Point is, the Pharisee was not repentant at all. He was saying that he's great and there's nothing wrong with him. He was a hypocrite. He saw no reason for personal repentance while seeing it as necessary in others. That's the point: hypocracy of unrepentance. Not disgust at sin.

beanieboy
May 4th, 2004, 12:38 PM
The Pharisees knew the law inside and out, and yet, Jesus took off his kid gloves with these people, saying that they traveled the world over to find converts, then made them twice as fit for hell as they were.

Why would Jesus say this to people who knew the law?

Because they did not know mercy, kindness, gentleness, or compassion.

I have never asked for anyone to be tolerant of me being gay.
I disagree that I am hated by God, but think what you will.

However, if you don't show kindness, mercy, gentleness, or any of the true fruits of the spirit, and have no love, you are just a loud clanging gong.

That's you, Sibbie. You are in love with your own ego, you act as if you have somehow earned salvation.

Still being mean enough, Poly? Are do you want me to turn it up?

Lucky
May 4th, 2004, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by beanieboy

Do you not agree that exhalting oneself is wrong, and to say, "I'm so glad I'm not like THAT person" makes you foul to God?
I agree, exalting oneself would be wrong. But I've yet to see anyone exalting themself.

smaller
May 4th, 2004, 12:47 PM
Let's examine Poly's TRUTH....

What happened to her anyway.

Where did the SINLESS one go???

Anyway THEIR version of THE TRUTH is that YOU MUST DECIDE to follow JESUS

OR

God (or possibly yourself) will TORTURE YOU ENDLESSLY IN FIRE.

Well, let's see:

If it is MY DECISION then that MAKES ME GOD right?

God apparently is ONLY ACTIVATED FOR ME upon MY DECISION, therefore I, I, I ACTIVATE God???

What kind of a GOD is that? I ACTIVATE GOD?

You mean this supposed GOD only BECOMES EFFECTIVE upon MY ACTS???

How ridiculous!

and then

IF

I DON"T ACTIVATE God,

then

God activates to BURN ME FOR ETERNITY???

For what? Failure TO ACTIVATE HIM????

What kind of NONSENSE religion is THAT????

enjoy!

smaller

the Sibbie
May 4th, 2004, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by philosophizer

That's the point: hypocracy of unrepentance. Not disgust at sin. Great point, philo! I truly wish others like servent101 and beanieboy could see that. :shake:

the Sibbie
May 4th, 2004, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by beanieboy

The Pharisees knew the law inside and out, and yet, Jesus took off his kid gloves with these people, saying that they traveled the world over to find converts, then made them twice as fit for hell as they were.

Why would Jesus say this to people who knew the law?

Because they did not know mercy, kindness, gentleness, or compassion.

I have never asked for anyone to be tolerant of me being gay.
I disagree that I am hated by God, but think what you will.

However, if you don't show kindness, mercy, gentleness, or any of the true fruits of the spirit, and have no love, you are just a loud clanging gong.

That's you, Sibbie. You are in love with your own ego, you act as if you have somehow earned salvation.

Still being mean enough, Poly? Are do you want me to turn it up? Beanie, sadly I'd have to say that you are the biggest hypocrite on here always trying to tell us what Jesus is like. Thanks, but I'd rather hear it straight from God's word, without your interpretations and your hack job of rightly dividing the truth. You make it sound as if you are desparate to be respected by God, yet you refuse to turn from that which He calls an abomination! Also, you try to use Scripture against those of us who warn you of your destructive folly, meanwhile you are a Buddhist who doesn't believe in Trinity and blame us of misrepresenting God.

If you are not going to obey God, it is better for you completely turn from Him than be lukewarm by misrepresenting Jesus Christ. Hot or Cold? Which is is gonna be?

If Poly and I are in any way misrepresenting the Truth, may God have mercy on our souls.

adajos
May 4th, 2004, 01:34 PM
Poly,


Because they were repentant.

That's right---Christ called them foul names from a distance while emphasizing how they made him want to puke and repeatedly told them they were damned until they repented, and once they repented then He dined with them. (Heavy Sarcasm)

C'mon now, that's bunk. You have any evidence to substantiate your claim that He only ever associated with sinners after they repented?


You saying that I'm picking favorite verses and jumping to conclusions with them doesn't make it true. If you feel this way is it not more beneficial to explain how this is being done rather than just expecting people to believe this is the case simply because servent101 says so? Let's start here.

18"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

I take this verse to mean that those who do not believe in God are condemned. Please show how I am picking this verse and jumping to the conclusion I just gave.

You are misunderstanding me. Probably I didn't make myself clear. I'm not a universalist.

The point I was trying to make was that you can't find a couple of isolated verses that describe God hating sinners and instantly conclude that thus we should be hateful and derogatory towards sinners.

For every such verse you can find, I can find a verse where Christ is loving towards sinners, while still letting them know the truth of their sin.


Luke 6
34And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. 35But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

So, is the Bible contradicting itself then about how we are to deal with sinners? No. I think the overall idea that should be understood is that there is a time and a place for loving sinners and a time and place for dealing with them harshly.

This is my problem with Enyarts' "Nicer Than God" stuff. He takes one aspect of Christ, the fact that He could be harsh in some circumstances, and extrapolates too much from that. He could also be kind to sinners. As a result you end up having people on this board feeling godly and righteous because they call a somebody else a disgusting queer who makes them want to puke. That's just wrong. And the worst thing is, they think that is being loving.


Christ reserved harsh judgement for all those who were unrepentant.

Matthew 10:34-36 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth. I came not to send peace but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be of his own household."

True. Unrepentant sinners go to hell. They are judged for their acts. I agree. We are judged and we as Christians can judge in a non-hypocritical fashion.

But judging should not be done in a purposefully abrasive, self-righteous fashion except perhaps in the very rarest of cirumstances. Nor should it be done cruelly. Cases in point:


What I was doing is called "mocking" beanster. I realize with all the perverted disgusting acts you engage in, it causes your braincells to become dull but do try to keep up.


And those that continue to spit in the face of God until the day of judgment, we get to rejoice over when they get what's coming to them.

The sad thing is, you seem to have twisted your definition of love so that you feel the above kinds of statements are loving and righteous.

I'm not saying we can't judge. I'm not saying we should excuse sin. We should tell people of their sin. But that's different than calling them names and trading insults with them.

I leave you with this:


1 Thessalonians 5
14And we urge you, brothers, warn those who are idle, encourage the timid, help the weak, be patient with everyone. 15Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always try to be kind to each other and to everyone else

By the way, Poly, do you tell overweight people who aren't repentant that you are disgusted by their vile and disgusting sinful acts of gluttony and that you can't wait until they are condemned to hell? Perhaps calling them "fatties" and "tubs of lard" will make them repent of their sins and come to Christ. Or do you reserve this sort of behavior only for the sins you pick and choose?

On Fire
May 4th, 2004, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by adajos
By the way, Poly, do you tell overweight people who aren't repentant that you are disgusted by their vile and disgusting sinful acts of gluttony and that you can't wait until they are condemned to hell? Perhaps calling them "fatties" and "tubs of lard" will make them repent of their sings and come to Christ. Or do you reserve this sort of behavior only for the sins you pick and choose?

Is the fat tub of lard posting lies on a weight watchers forum? Do they refuse to see that weighing 500lbs is nothealthy physically or spiritually? Do they call people who are successfully losing weight "healthy wannabes"?

adajos
May 4th, 2004, 01:42 PM
Lucky,


I agree, exalting oneself would be wrong. But I've yet to see anyone exalting themself.

How's this for such an instance of that by Poly on this thread:


And those that continue to spit in the face of God until the day of judgment, we get to rejoice over when they get what's coming to them.

Keeping in mind the defintion of exalt from dictionary.com:


ex·alt ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-zôlt)
tr.v. ex·alt·ed, ex·alt·ing, ex·alts
To raise in rank, character, or status; elevate

If she's not elevating herself over others with a sentence like that, I don't know what she's doing.

Whatever happened to the attitude "But for the grace of God, there go I"??

On Fire
May 4th, 2004, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by adajos
Whatever happened to the attitude "But for the grace of God, there go I"??

Stick around here long enough and you too will be able to discern the innocent seekers from the blasphemers.

adajos
May 4th, 2004, 01:47 PM
Is the fat tub of lard posting lies on a weight watchers forum? Do they refuse to see that weighing 500lbs is nothealthy physically or spiritually? Do they call people who are successfully losing weight "healthy wannabes"?

What's your point?

I'm not going to go back and forth with insulting one-line posts with you.

smaller
May 4th, 2004, 01:49 PM
In "supposed christianity" why are sinners always referred to as THEM and not THEMSELVES???

Nineveh
May 4th, 2004, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by Sibbie

Beanie, sadly I'd have to say that you are the biggest hypocrite on here always trying to tell us what Jesus is like. Thanks, but I'd rather hear it straight from God's word, without your interpretations and your hack job of rightly dividing the truth. You make it sound as if you are desparate to be loved by God, yet you refuse to turn from that which He calls an abomination! Also, you try to use Scripture against those of us who warn you of your destructive folly, meanwhile you are a Hindu who doesn't believe in Trinity and blame us of misrepresenting God.

If you are not going to obey God, it is better for you completely turn from Him than be lukewarm by misrepresenting Jesus Christ. Hot or Cold? Which is is gonna be?

If Poly and I are in any way misrepresenting the Truth, may God have mercy on our souls.

Thought this needed repeated...

Poly
May 4th, 2004, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by smaller

Let's examine Poly's TRUTH....

What happened to her anyway.

Where did the SINLESS one go???


Newsflash! I sometimes have more important things to do than to try and straighten you out such as take care of my family.

Stop implying that I've said something that I haven't.

Smaller, you said

Originally posted by smaller
When you have ERADICATED SIN from YOURSELF perhaps you would have a point but of course that has not happened yet so whatever...

To which I responded

Originally posted by Poly
Christ on the other hand says that by accepting Him my sins are eradicated.
I say this in accordance to the following:

Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Not by anything I've done but by believing on the only one worthy enough to be the sacrifice that is able to eradicate my sin, I am made righteous to God.


You mean this supposed GOD only BECOMES EFFECTIVE upon MY ACTS???
How ridiculous



Oh really? God seems to think otherwise. I'll go over this real slow like for ya.

Acts 16:31 "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, (this is the "MY ACTS" part you refered to) and you will be saved...."(and this is where "GOD BECOMES EFFECTIVE")
Let's go over this again.

Romans 10:9
"that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead,("MY ACTS") you will be saved.(GOD BECOMING EFFECTIVE)



IF

I DON"T ACTIVATE God,
then

God activates to BURN ME FOR ETERNITY???

"Activate God"? believe in God is a better way to put it.



enjoy!
The only thing one can enjoy about your posts is ripping them to shreds

On Fire
May 4th, 2004, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by adajos

What's your point?

I'm not going to go back and forth with insulting one-line posts with you.

Gotcha. If you can't stand the heat....

beanieboy
May 4th, 2004, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by Lucky

I agree, exalting oneself would be wrong. But I've yet to see anyone exalting themself.

Then you may be blind yourself.

Cyrus of Persia
May 4th, 2004, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by Gerald

Talk is cheap. A good right hook is more effective.

A tire iron is even more effective.

Good point. One Christian actually wanted to fight with me in real and wished me painful death just yesterday in those forums. So, yes, the best way is just to kill those who oppose your views :chuckle:

Chileice
May 4th, 2004, 01:56 PM
WOW!!!! I was wondering what to do for my upcoming birthday. Now I know!!! I'll invite Poly and Sozo and Beanie and Smaller all over for a love-in. Haven't had one of those since the late 60s. And then (just in case) I'll invite 10 of the city's finest (police officers) just in case the LOVE is just a little too hot to handle.

Hate disguised as love. And you wonder how the triunfal entry happened one week before the crucifixion. The next time I hear people tell me they are being loving by abusing someone verbally and psychologically I think I'll vomit. And I hope Poly's there to clean the vomit up.

beanieboy
May 4th, 2004, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by Sibbie

Great point, philo! I truly wish others like servent101 and beanieboy could see that. :shake:


I have yet to see you apologize or repent once for your arrogant offensive behavior, and you are a believer.

Go figur'.

smaller
May 4th, 2004, 02:00 PM
Greetings Poly, Activator of THE MOST HIGH GOD, O Sinless One....


Newsflash! I sometimes have more important things to do than to try and straighten out your stubborn and continuous pathetic way of thinking such as take care of my family.
Stop implying that I've said something that I haven't.

ha!

You DODGE with the best of 'em Poly!

I believe we have a NEW TERM....

SALVATION BY DODGING THE WORD....


Smaller, you said

quote:
Originally posted by smaller
When you have ERADICATED SIN from YOURSELF perhaps you would have a point but of course that has not happened yet so whatever...

To which I responded

quote:
Originally posted by Poly
Christ on the other hand says that by accepting Him my sins are eradicated.


I say this in accordance to the following:

Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Not by anything I've done but by believing on the only one worthy enough to be the sacrifice that is able to eradicate my sin, I am made righteous to God.

I see O SINLESS ONE....I see. You have ACTIVATED THE SECRET INGREDIENTS required to ERADICATE your SINS....

How proud you must be...how proud.

Is this what led John to write this?

"WE CANNOT SAY WE HAVE NO SIN or WE DECEIVE OURSELVES and THE TRUTH IS not in us."

I know SINLESS ONES hate this question.

btw, did you MARK YOUR CALENDAR on WHAT DATE and TIME you ERADICATED your SINS, you know, in case GOD NEEDS TO CHECK it out???

quote:
You mean this supposed GOD only BECOMES EFFECTIVE upon MY ACTS???
How ridiculous


Oh really? God seems to thing otherwise. I'll go over this real slow like for ya.

Acts 16:31 "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, (this is the "MY ACTS" part you refered to) and you will be saved...."(and this is where "GOD BECOMES EFFECTIVE")
Let's go over this again.

Romans 10:9
"that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead,("MY ACTS" you will be saved.(GOD BECOMING EFFECTIVE)

I see. Well God must be VERY ACTIVE in YOUR CASE. Was this a ONE TIME activation or an OFT REPEATED thing.

I guess since you DO NOT SIN and have had it ERADICATED this would be a moot point eh?

Was that SIN REMOVAL a surgical procedure??? Did you like, have to CHECK INTO a hospital or something?


quote from smaller:

IF

I DON"T ACTIVATE God,
then

God activates to BURN ME FOR ETERNITY???


"Activate God"? believe in God is a better way to put it.

That would be "believe in" like "believe in" the tooth fairy? Does this ACTIVATE the tooth fairy as well Mom?


The only thing one can enjoy about your posts is ripping them to shreds

Keep up the good work. It is quite ENTERTAINING....believe me. I feel so ripped...;) I think I have been violated!

enjoy!

smaller

Cyrus of Persia
May 4th, 2004, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by adajos

By the way, Poly, do you tell overweight people who aren't repentant that you are disgusted by their vile and disgusting sinful acts of gluttony and that you can't wait until they are condemned to hell? Perhaps calling them "fatties" and "tubs of lard" will make them repent of their sins and come to Christ. Or do you reserve this sort of behavior only for the sins you pick and choose?

Excellent point! :thumb:

beanieboy
May 4th, 2004, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by Chileice

WOW!!!! I was wondering what to do for my upcoming birthday. Now I know!!! I'll invite Poly and Sozo and Beanie and Smaller all over for a love-in. Haven't had one of those since the late 60s. And then (just in case) I'll invite 10 of the city's finest (police officers) just in case the LOVE is just a little too hot to handle.

Hate disguised as love. And you wonder how the triunfal entry happened one week before the crucifixion. The next time I hear people tell me they are being loving by abusing someone verbally and psychologically I think I'll vomit. And I hope Poly's there to clean the vomit up.

:thumb:

Poly
May 4th, 2004, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by servent101

I vote sibbie and poly as the worst offenders of the Truth here on TOL.

The truth does hurt, I know.

With Christ's Love

Servent101
Alright! Did ya see this sibbie? Oh and did you notice that servent accidentally put "offenders". We know that he/she must have meant to put "defenders" since we know that servent would never say anything bad or judge anybody.

Hey Sibbie, let's start a club! We could call it "W.H.A.K". "Women hating all corruption".
We certainly have enough on this board who need a good WHAK!!!

the Sibbie
May 4th, 2004, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by beanieboy

I have yet to see you apologize or repent once for your arrogant offensive behavior, and you are a believer.

Go figur'. :confused: How am I being arrogant? For wishing that you would repent and come to know Jesus as your Lord and Savior? My "behavior" is only offensive because Jesus is the "Rock of Offense". So I could apologize, but it would mean nothing, so I won't do it. :nono:

smaller
May 4th, 2004, 02:16 PM
Sibbie, have you and Poly BOTH activated GOD and became SINLESS?

Nineveh
May 4th, 2004, 02:28 PM
For crying out loud smaller, you are more concerned with judging Poly than with judging beanieboy's homoism. Even if you are right and no one goes to hell, the least you could do is try to get beanieboy out of his distructive deathstyle. Paul said: What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means!

Prioritize.

smaller
May 4th, 2004, 02:30 PM
Step on up to the SINLESS plate GRAnite...(sorry, I meant NINevah)

It seems to be a GROWING CLUB (pun intended)

smaller
May 4th, 2004, 02:33 PM
The salvation that God offers doesn't require any works on our part, except

you guys are SO funny....really....

philosophizer
May 4th, 2004, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Nineveh

For crying out loud smaller, you are more concerned with judging Poly than with judging beanieboy's homoism. Even if you are right and no one goes to hell, the least you could do is try to get beanieboy out of his distructive deathstyle. Paul said: What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means!

Prioritize.


Well said. :up:

Poly
May 4th, 2004, 02:34 PM
Smaller what does "believe in God" mean to you?

smaller
May 4th, 2004, 02:40 PM
Well, let'see. I guess I have to MAKE MYSELF sinless....

ACTIVATE the MOST HIGH GOD....

and, and...

oh yeah, LOVE MY NEIGHBORS AS MYSELF by telling them if they do not MAKE THEMSELVES SINLESS and ACTIVATE THE MOST HIGH GOD, then THEY WILL FRY LIKE AN ETERNAL WEINER on a SPIT.

Did I miss anything O Sinless God Activator???

beanieboy
May 4th, 2004, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by Nineveh

For crying out loud smaller, you are more concerned with judging Poly than with judging beanieboy's homoism. Even if you are right and no one goes to hell, the least you could do is try to get beanieboy out of his distructive deathstyle. Paul said: What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means!

Prioritize.

Wahhhhhh! Stop judging Powy. She wants to judge udder people but not to be judged. Wahhhhhh.

More, your highness?

the Sibbie
May 4th, 2004, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by Poly

Alright! Did ya see this sibbie? Oh and did you notice that servent accidentally put "offenders". We know that he/she must have meant to put "defenders" since we know that servent would never say anything bad or judge anybody.

Hey Sibbie, let's start a club! We could call it "W.H.A.K". "Women hating all corruption".
We certainly have enough on this board who need a good WHAK!!! :darwinsm: Sounds like a grand idea, Poly! :D

the Sibbie
May 4th, 2004, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by Nineveh

For crying out loud smaller, you are more concerned with judging Poly than with judging beanieboy's homoism. Even if you are right and no one goes to hell, the least you could do is try to get beanieboy out of his distructive deathstyle. Paul said: What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means!

Prioritize. I agree with philo! Great point Nineveh!:up:

beanieboy
May 4th, 2004, 02:42 PM
Gee, Poly, can I be an your self righteous unrepentant Christian club too??

Wahhhhhhhh!

Is this what you are wanting, Poly?

By the way, I you overweight?
Gluttonly, you know.
Want to know if I can start with the name calling...

Poly
May 4th, 2004, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by smaller

Well, let'see. I guess I have to MAKE MYSELF sinless....

ACTIVATE the MOST HIGH GOD....

and, and...

oh yeah, LOVE MY NEIGHBORS AS MYSELF by telling them if they do not MAKE THEMSELVES SINLESS and ACTIVATE THE MOST HIGH GOD, then THEY WILL FRY LIKE AN ETERNAL WEINER on a SPIT.



Are you that afraid to give a true answer to a reasonable question? Come on, what do YOU think it means to "believe in God"?

smaller
May 4th, 2004, 02:46 PM
Oh, I think the POINT is becoming quite clear Sibbie and Poly....O Sinless Activators of the Most High God...

this is really too much fun for FREE...

Can I set up a GATE somewhere to charge people to see the CHRISTIAN CLOWNS???

Poly
May 4th, 2004, 02:50 PM
Ok, smaller, you've totally lost it. I now remember why I rarely ever respond to anything you post. I prefer conversations with people having more than just a couple of braincells firing.

beanieboy
May 4th, 2004, 02:53 PM
:cry:

All you do is whine.
Geez, what a baby.

Mean enough, or do should I be getting more mean, cause I love you?

Aimiel
May 4th, 2004, 03:03 PM
The salvation that God offers doesn't require any works on our part, except an expression of our faith, which, too, is from Him, as is the salvation. We aren't any better than the lost, by virtue of being saved, merely chosen. It is The Lord Who finds us 'guiltless,' by virtue of reception of His Son's Blood, as the payment for our sin. We have paid our debt to sin (death) because Jesus died in our place, if we have faith in Him. That faith is not our own, but The Lord has given it to us. There is no one who can lay anything to the charge of one of God's elect, because He has wiped our account of that sin, and we don't owe on it anymore. He looks at us as if we have never sinned. Our friends (as well as ourselves) often have a hard time forgetting that 'sin nature' that used to be our taskmaster, but our enemies make it their full-time job trying to accuse us of sin and cause us to doubt our salvation. We try to cause them to step out of their lifestyle that leads to death and hell, by loving them enough to tell them the truth, even though they hate us enough to tell us lies to try to cause us to fall back to what we used to walk in. Lord have mercy on us all.

adajos
May 4th, 2004, 03:07 PM
I would like to see Poly, Sibbie, or Lucky respond to post 50 and 52 on this thread. They got lost in the flood of posts.

smaller
May 4th, 2004, 03:07 PM
well me being a SINFUL person who CAN'T activate The Most High God and who doesn't think LOVE=Save yourself from God or BURN FOREVER like you and Sibbie and MAYbe NINeah if she decides to join your CLUB are just not on YOUR level of communication???

Could this be the problem???

Chileice
May 4th, 2004, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by beanieboy

:cry:

All you do is whine.
Geez, what a baby.

Mean enough, or do should I be getting more mean, cause I love you?


Got a better idea:
I'm going to share some positive alternatives.

1. --Remeber God made every person that exists.:thumb:

Chileice
May 4th, 2004, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by Chileice

Got a better idea:
I'm going to share some positive alternatives.

1. --Remeber God made every person that exists.:thumb:


I ought to accept myself and my neighbour.

I am NOT the centre of the universe. The world would keep spinning without me:cool:

beanieboy
May 4th, 2004, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by Chileice

Got a better idea:
I'm going to share some positive alternatives.

1. --Remeber God made every person that exists.:thumb:

Whaoooooooooooooooooo.

Are you saying that Poly is wrong, and that one should, oh, I don't know, try to love their neighbor as themself?

The thread suggests that those people are mamby pamby christians hand holding people all the way to hell.

Are you saying that Poly's christian approach is (gasp) faulty?

(btw, totally agree with you. Then again, I'm a Buddhist and going to burn in hell, so...)

Chileice
May 4th, 2004, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by Chileice

I ought to accept myself and my neighbour.

I am NOT the centre of the universe. The world would keep spinning without me:cool:

It takes the totality of believers for us to understand the love, grace, mercy, justice and incredible infinitude of our heavenly Father.:Princess:

Chileice
May 4th, 2004, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by Chileice

It takes the totality of believers for us to understand the love, grace, mercy, justice and incredible infinitude of our heavenly Father.:Princess:

I need to take advantage of the knowledge that others have without taking advantage of them as people.

smaller
May 4th, 2004, 03:34 PM
I'm sorry AIMiel

I just couldn't get past the except the last time...



The salvation that God offers doesn't require any works on our part, except an expression of our faith, which, too, is from Him, as is the salvation.

You know AIMiel, this is the first HONEST statement I have seen you come up with. Very very good. Are you turning to Calvinism now?
[quote]
We aren't any better than the lost, by virtue of being saved, merely chosen.

Again very good. I am sorry for not seeing this sooner. There is HOPE for AIMiel.

You know I can't imagine beanieboy, being what he is and all, being CHOSEN by God to HEAR and UNDERSTAND, yet he has the greater predicament having been called from THAT position (no pun intended)

I don't think too many of his worldly compatriots would understand his calling but he has it nonetheless.

Do you think this CALLING upon him is to DAMN HIS FELLOW SINNERS to BURN IN HELL or to REPRESENT God's Love even to THEM?


It is The Lord Who finds us 'guiltless,' by virtue of reception of His Son's Blood, as the payment for our sin. We have paid our debt to sin (death) because Jesus died in our place, if we have faith in Him. That faith is not our own, but The Lord has given it to us. There is no one who can lay anything to the charge of one of God's elect, because He has wiped our account of that sin, and we don't owe on it anymore. He looks at us as if we have never sinned. Our friends (as well as ourselves) often have a hard time forgetting that 'sin nature' that used to be our taskmaster, but our enemies make it their full-time job trying to accuse us of sin and cause us to doubt our salvation. We try to cause them to step out of their lifestyle that leads to death and hell, by loving them enough to tell them the truth, even though they hate us enough to tell us lies to try to cause us to fall back to what we used to walk in. Lord have mercy on us all.

You see AIMiel, I do not think that I am better than anyone else. Paul called himself the CHIEF of SINNERS. He NEVER called himself SINless. He KNEW that SIN INDWELT HIM and that EVIL was still PRESENT WITH HIM EVEN after he came to KNOW CHRIST. Paul even had a MESSENGER of SATAN in his own flesh just to KEEP HIM WEAK.

You see it is WHEN WE ARE WEAK that we are STRONG.

Does SIN still occupy our flesh? Of course it does. Who are we kidding?

What does SIN have to do with THE LOVE OF GOD TO ALL PEOPLE???

Nothing. Absolutely NOTHING.

In FACT....

"where SIN ABOUNDS grace does MUCH MORE abound." (from Rom.)

No SIN will make the BLOOD OF CHRIST of NO EFFECT. Never has, never will.

Not only that but it is just PLAIN WRONG to use SIN as an excuse TO NOT LOVE another person as WHILE WE WERE YET ENEMIES, Christ died FOR US eh?

What makes us think Christ DID NOT DIE for His OTHER enemies??? Or does Christ ONLY LOVE His friends???

No. Christ LOVES even HIS enemies. He advises us to DO THAT as well.

Love is MORE than just saying to another person BELIEVE GOD and SAVE YOURSELF FROM HIM or BURN IN HELL forever. I simply REFUSE to believe that THIS IS LOVE. It is NOT! READ what LOVE IS in 1 Cor. 13 and you WILL NOT FIND THAT as a description.

It is ONLY THE LOVE OF GOD to us that LEADS US to LIVE a "better life." It is BETTER because of HIS LOVE to ALL

...and this GOD/AGAPE LOVE is not FICKLE changing JUDGMENTAL love like the love of Poly and Sibbie and NINevah...or yours or mine...

enjoy!

smaller

Chileice
May 4th, 2004, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Chileice

I need to take advantage of the knowledge that others have without taking advantage of them as people.

I can`t worry about the way others live their lives. I need to worry about how I live my life before God and others. I need to do what pleases God even if others disapprove.

Pretending is not the same as being.

Chileice
May 4th, 2004, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by Chileice

I can`t worry about the way others live their lives. I need to worry about how I live my life before God and others. I need to do what pleases God even if others disapprove.

Pretending is not the same as being.

If I work for the Lord without worrying about who will get the credit... the Lord will be glorified and will receive honour and glory and His kingdom (not mine) will grow.:jump:

Chileice
May 4th, 2004, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by Chileice

If I work for the Lord without worrying about who will get the credit... the Lord will be glorified and will receive honour and glory and His kingdom (not mine) will grow.:jump:

The Golden Rule applies as much to me as it does to Sibbie or Poly or Smaller or anyone else including the murderer up for parole.:think:

Chileice
May 4th, 2004, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by Chileice

The Golden Rule applies as much to me as it does to Sibbie or Poly or Smaller or anyone else including the murderer up for parole.:think:

Courtesy will open doors; Kindness will win me friends. Truth, spoken in LOVE, will help preserve them.

A real friend knows how to confront without attacking.

Don`t look to be offended, but don't look to offend. The world already has enough problems without inventing new ones.:cool:

Chileice
May 4th, 2004, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by Chileice

Courtesy will open doors; Kindness will win me friends. Truth, spoken in LOVE, will help preserve them.

A real friend knows how to confront without attacking.

Don`t look to be offended, but don't look to offend. The world already has enough problems without inventing new ones.:cool:

Ask forgiveness.

Forgive me for getting snarky earlier on this post. The environment got the best of me, but I am still responsible for my actions... so please forgive me.

And... Forgive (a hundred times if you have to)... just like your Saviour has to do for you.;)

Chileice
May 4th, 2004, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by Chileice

Ask forgiveness.

Forgive me for getting snarky earlier on this post. The environment got the best of me, but I am still responsible for my actions... so please forgive me.

And... Forgive (a hundred times if you have to)... just like your Saviour has to do for you.;)

Treat others with respect: their ideas, their beliefs, their opinions, their customs, their politics, their work and their family.

i.e. be nice:kiss:

Chileice
May 4th, 2004, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by Chileice

Treat others with respect: their ideas, their beliefs, their opinions, their customs, their politics, their work and their family.

i.e. be nice:kiss:

Recognize that you can`t possibly please everyone... but as far as it depends on YOU... be at peace with all men. I stole that from Paul.

Chileice
May 4th, 2004, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by Chileice

Recognize that you can`t possibly please everyone... but as far as it depends on YOU... be at peace with all men. I stole that from Paul.

Keep your accounts clear:

Don't borrow money you can't pay back,
Don't make promises you can't keep,
Don't make threats you aren't going to follow through with.:nono:

beanieboy
May 4th, 2004, 03:50 PM
Dude, take my bike helmet. They are going to pound you like mashed potatoes. The perverted "Nicer than God" is on it's way.

God killed people. Are you nicer than God? How many heathen have you killed?

That's basically the feel of it.

Jesus called people dogs and swine. So call fat chicks cows and wide load.

It's creepy.
All in the name of Go-wad.

beanieboy
May 4th, 2004, 03:51 PM
btw - very good suggestions.

ShadowMaid
May 4th, 2004, 03:56 PM
Woohooo!! :bannana:

I think Poly and Sibbie are heading to the top of my "Example List!" :bannana:

Chileice
May 4th, 2004, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by Chileice

Keep your accounts clear:

Don't borrow money you can't pay back,
Don't make promises you can't keep,
Don't make threats you aren't going to follow through with.:nono:


Life is faaaar tooo short to fill it with hatred.

A young boy, ten years old, lies on life support.

His brain is dead.

His parents wanted nothing to do with our Christianity, but he accepted Christ in front of our house when my wife shared with him about Jesus about a year ago. Last Sunday he was singing at church (we don't go to that church, we moved to another city) and his teacher said he was singing so loud and so happy to know Jesus.

Yesterday he had a cerebral hemmorage and the doctors did emergency surgery but now he is dead. When the pull the life support, we will drive four hours to the funeral and we will hug his mom and dad and shed tears with them and love them and cry with them. We will not tell them what evil sinners they are or tell them they are going to hell. We won't because we love them.

We WANT them to come to know the Saviour their boy is now with. Can you understand what I am trying to say? Does anyone get it? Had we cursed them or forsaken them we would have no opportunity to minister to them. Life is SOOOOOO short. Why spend it in hatred? I hope at least one person will go away from this thread with a new attitude. O God, I pray.

smaller
May 4th, 2004, 04:55 PM
Oh look! Another member of the SINLESS GOD ACTIVATOR club!

Lucky
May 4th, 2004, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by adajos

I would like to see Poly, Sibbie, or Lucky respond to post 50 and 52 on this thread. They got lost in the flood of posts.
I'll start working on the responses. :cattyfan:

Lucky
May 4th, 2004, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by adajos

By the way, Poly, do you tell overweight people who aren't repentant that you are disgusted by their vile and disgusting sinful acts of gluttony and that you can't wait until they are condemned to hell? Perhaps calling them "fatties" and "tubs of lard" will make them repent of their sins and come to Christ. Or do you reserve this sort of behavior only for the sins you pick and choose?
Adajos, I think your post (#50 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=516747#post516747)) is at least worthy of a response from who it was addressed to. I'm really not sure if I disagree that much to attack it dead on. Balance is good.

I'd especially like to see what Poly's response to the above excerpt will be.

Poly
May 4th, 2004, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by adajos

Poly,

That's right---Christ called them foul names from a distance while emphasizing how they made him want to puke and repeatedly told them they were damned until they repented, and once they repented then He dined with them. (Heavy Sarcasm)

C'mon now, that's bunk. You have any evidence to substantiate your claim that He only ever associated with sinners after they repented?

Did Zacheus continue to take more taxes than he should? No, he went around paying people what he owed and then some.

Jesus told Mary Magdelene to "Go and sin no more". Apparently it was important to Him that she repent. Was she repentant? Do you really think that one who isn't repentant, blatently continuing in her perversions, is going to have the audacity to sit at the feet of Jesus, washing them with her tears? Tears come with repentance.

Originally posted by adajos

By the way, Poly, do you tell overweight people who aren't repentant that you are disgusted by their vile and disgusting sinful acts of gluttony and that you can't wait until they are condemned to hell? Perhaps calling them "fatties" and "tubs of lard" will make them repent of their sins and come to Christ. Or do you reserve this sort of behavior only for the sins you pick and choose?
If one is a glutton, and has the kind of haughty and proud spirit toward God as most homos do, hating Him and responding in such a manner as "I don't care what God says about taking care of my body. I know better than He does. There's nothing wrong with being a glutton no matter what God says." then yes, this person needs to be shown that he is wrong and should repent of his attitude.
Are overweight people proud of this? Do they flaunt it in the face of God? No
The same, usually, cannot be said of a homosexual.

adajos
May 4th, 2004, 09:22 PM
Poly,


Did Zacheus continue to take more taxes than he should? No, he went around paying people what he owed and then some.

I don't remember Christ calling Zaccheus derogatory names prior to his repentance however. Or talking about how much he disgusted him.


Jesus told Mary Magdelene to "Go and sin no more". Apparently it was important to Him that she repent. Was she repentant? Do you really think that one who isn't repentant, blatently continuing in her perversions, is going to have the audacity to sit at the feet of Jesus, washing them with her tears? Tears come with repentance.

Of course repentance is important. What evidence have you that she already had repented and thus Christ treated her lovingly rather than that Christ treated her lovingly and then she repented? You can't know which it was.

What say you to this:


Matthew 9:9-12
9As Jesus went on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector's booth. "Follow me," he told him, and Matthew got up and followed him.
10While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew's house, many tax collectors and "sinners" came and ate with him and his disciples. 11When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"
12On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'[1] For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

So what evidence do you have from this passage that Matthew repented prior to Jesus dining with him at his house?

If Matthew and the tax collectors were already repentant, then they were no longer "sick and in need of a doctor" as Jesus described them.

You can try to explain away Christ's association with sinners all you want, but the fact of the matter is that He did, and they weren't always repentant prior to His association with them.


If one is a glutton, and has the kind of haughty and proud spirit toward God as most homos do, hating Him and responding in such a manner as "I don't care what God says about taking care of my body. I know better than He does. There's nothing wrong with being a glutton no matter what God says." then yes, this person needs to be shown that he is wrong and should repent of his attitude.
Are overweight people proud of this? Do they flaunt it in the face of God? No
The same, usually, cannot be said of a homosexual.

As Greg Boyd said in church this past Sunday, "All sin misses the mark". In other words, all sin is implictly an act of pride. You put yourself above God's rules. Gluttons are rebelling against God's rules as surely as homosexuals. Every time they bring their fork to their mouth they are rubbing their sin in God's face (to borrow your terminology, Poly).

So you're talking about arbitrary degrees of pridefulness between homosexuals and gluttons that is found nowhere in the Bible. Those random degrees of pridefulness that you have thought up doesn't give you the go-ahead to treat one group like filth and coddle the other group.

Just to let everyone know I'm not advocating treating gluttons or homosexuals like dirt. I'm demontrating absurdity by being absurd.

okinrus
May 4th, 2004, 11:38 PM
Poly, wickedness is loving sin, even reaching for sin; where as the term sinner can mean someone who sins but tries not to. The term "sitill in their sins" can apply to a sinner who is enslaved unwillingly into his own sins, while wickedness is willful cooperation with Evil. Note also that wickedness generally creeps upon those who are still in their sins through pride, and those who are still in their sins are in danger. But by being too harsh on homosexuals, you may be only further inducing other sins such as anger brought by feelings of inferiority and further separation from people who are within Christ.

Many homosexuals, I think, are not wicked but trapped by lust. Lust can be defeated by love, and the family, but expecting homosexuals to replace Lust with emptyness and hollow threats will be self-defeating.

Lighthouse
May 4th, 2004, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by Lucky

Does it really matter to you? It's not like you would actually change your ways if someone told you "God is love" and "God loves sinners." (Who would?) Excuses, excuses, excuses...
I told him. Guess what? He ignored me.

Lighthouse
May 4th, 2004, 11:59 PM
beanieboy-
You are not a repentant sinner. You have no room to talk. So, shut up!

Lighthouse
May 5th, 2004, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by Gerald

Izzat so? Where do they hang out?

I haven't run into a Christian yet who didn't scream "NOT IN THE FACE!!! NOT IN THE FACE!!!" when confronted with a real fight...
Maybe you shoud try running into me, sometime. If you're going to hit me, I don't care where you hit me, just as long as you understand you're going to get hit, too.

firechyld
May 5th, 2004, 12:13 AM
Oooh, the boys are being tough... :rolleyes:

Cyrus of Persia
May 5th, 2004, 04:59 AM
Originally posted by lighthouse

beanieboy-
You are not a repentant sinner. You have no room to talk. So, shut up!

Neither are you repentant sinner. Thanks for your confessions in those boards we read that you still struggle with your sins. So either shut up! or let the other sinners to speak too!

Nuff said!

philosophizer
May 5th, 2004, 06:54 AM
Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

Neither are you repentant sinner. Thanks for your confessions in those boards we read that you still struggle with your sins. So either shut up! or let the other sinners to speak too!

Nuff said!

There's a difference between struggling and not repenting.

philosophizer
May 5th, 2004, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by Poly
Jesus told Mary Magdelene to "Go and sin no more".

Whoa, careful Poly! It doesn't say anywhere that the woman in that chapter was Mary Magdelene.

Poly
May 5th, 2004, 06:59 AM
Originally posted by philosophizer

Whoa, careful Poly! It doesn't say anywhere that the woman in that chapter was Mary Magdelene.
oops! My bad! :thumb:

Ok, the "woman" :o :D

Nineveh
May 5th, 2004, 07:31 AM
If Poly is judging wrongly, she will answer to the same God beanieboy will. The difference is, she has the covering of Christ and can stand before the Mighty and Righteous God. Beanieboy has only his works to cover himself with. An unrepentant homosexual covered in his abominations vs a repentant follower of Christ, so tell me folks, which shoes would you rather be in on that day?

: tries on Poly's shoes:

What does beanieboy want? To be left alone in his sin at best, to shut up the Gospel at worst. What does Poly want? To see beanieboy look to Christ for his righteousness.

Righteousness:
1. acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin

Poly fits that definition, she has chosen Christ, who is the Only One who can impart righteousness to sinners and cleans them by His blood.

Definition 2. a : morally right or justifiable

This is where those who are still steeped in sin fall into the definition. They are often found twisting the Righteous Ways of God to fit their world view and "justify" their own sin by their own "moral standard".

So in reality, those who defy the Word of God in favor of their own justification for sin are the self righteous among us, while those who seek Jesus Christ are justified by Him alone.

There are only two options:
1. The Law convicts and shows a need for repentance.
2. The Law is twisted to avoid being convicted and negating the need to repent.

If you decide on option 2, you have chosen to live under the law you are breaking and will be judged by, you have chosen your own self righteousness. Nice? No, I can't see anything nice about it, but that is the reality.

CryTears
May 5th, 2004, 07:52 AM
Originally posted by Poly

There are some really mean people on this board. They don't care enough about unbelievers to warn them of the destruction that awaits them. They lie to them and lead them down the wrong path saying such things as "God loves everybody".

Psalm 5:5 "...Thou hatest all workers of iniquity"
Psalm 11:5 "The Lord trieth the righteous but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hates."

Another lie they tell is that "God hates the sin but loves the sinner".
Matthew 12:35 "A good man, out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things."
Matthew 15:11 "What comes out of the mouth defiles a man"

I often see people say that all sins are the same. But there are some sins that God really puts extra emphasis on in showing just how much he hates it such as when He refers to homosexuality as an abomination. (Leviticus 18:21-23)

It is clear that some sins are greater than others.

John 19:11 "Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin"

Luke 12: 46-48 "the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47And that servant who knew his master's will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more."

Many members appear to be loving but according to Romans 12:9, they are hypocrites.

Why would some people want to be so mean? I realize that a lot of the time it is done out of ignorance but some know that they should be more bold in speaking against wickedness but being liked by others and not offending is more important to them than truth. They want to be liked by believers as well as non-believers regardless of the fact that, according to Jesus, if you follow Him you will be hated.
Matthew 10:22 "And you will be hated by all men for my name's sake."

This post is similar to a big wide Spring Wind on a sunny day.
All the debris is carried away and the field is left with the pretty wheat. A spring cleaning, fresh.
Some people would give their kids milk money away just to be "nice".

smaller
May 5th, 2004, 07:53 AM
Greetings Nin


If Poly is judging wrongly, she will answer to the same God beanieboy will. The difference is, she has the covering of Christ and can stand before the Mighty and Righteous God. Beanieboy has only his works to cover himself with. An unrepentant homosexual covered in his abominations vs a repentant follower of Christ, so tell me folks, which shoes would you rather be in on that day?

Well of course. Poly is sinless. It is MUCH EASIER for her to STAND ON HER OWN righteousness eh?

Hating beaieboy is WHAT GOD COMMANDS right?


: tries on Poly's shoes:

How bout's joins Poly's SINLESS GOD ACTIVATORS CLUB?


What does beanieboy want? To be left alone in his sin at best, to shut up the Gospel at worst. What does Poly want? To see beanieboy look to Christ for his righteousness.

Well isn't that the TRUTH...


Righteousness:
1. acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin

Poly fits that definition, she has chosen Christ, who is the Only One who can impart righteousness to sinners and cleans them by His blood.

Why of COURSE. Poly has INITIATED and EFFECTUATED the SPIRIT of the LIVING GOD who of course without POLY'S HELP is COMPLETELY WORTHLESS.


Definition 2. a : morally right or justifiable

This is where those who are still steeped in sin fall into the definition. They are often found twisting the Righteous Ways of God to fit their world view and "justify" their own sin by their own "moral standard".

And we know that POLY's righteousness is FAR ABOVE that of any common homosexual.


So in reality, those who defy the Word of God in favor of their own justification for sin are the self righteous among us, while those who seek Jesus Christ are justified by Him alone.

Well of course. These later like YOU and POLY have been successful in TOTALLY ERADICATING your sins by YOUR ACTIVATING of the MOST HIGH God. This has resulted in your SINS being completely TAKEN AWAY, never to be heard from again.


There are only two options:
1. The Law convicts and shows a need for repentance.
2. The Law is twisted to avoid being convicted and negating the need to repent.

Well we know for a CERTAINTY that the SINLESS ONES are KEEPING THE LAW in every single jot and tittle. How proud you must be of your "achievements."


If you decide on option 2, you have chosen to live under the law you are breaking and will be judged by, you have chosen your own self righteousness. Nice? No, I can't see anything nice about it, but that is the reality.

Yes you HEATHEN. Activate God and BECOME SINLESS today. What is WRONG with you.

enjoy!

smaller

beanieboy
May 5th, 2004, 07:54 AM
It's rather interesting that I don't start threads about homosexuality. christians do. And then when I respond, I am attacked.

And you are surprised that I would respond?

It's a trap. It's dishonest, really. It's on countless threads, and from what I see on TOL, should make up at least 30% of the Bible.

But why stop by condemning homosexuals? Why not go threaten people going to temple? They don't acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God, the unrepentant sinners! Are people who are Muslim? Scream in their face. Very effective. And hindis? Tell them they are going to hell, and then add a couple of "well, y'are"s to it. Very effective. Stand outside of bars, and yell, "Drunkards! Unrepentant drunkards!" I'm sure it will make you feel superior.

Yesterday, I decided to try out the Poly method.
Be a jerk to people, mock them, respond with "Wahhhh, Baby want her bottle" to see how effective it was.

The result?
Poly got angry.
She stopped responding.
She got defensive.

So, the "being mean because I love you" approach can sometimes actually build more walls than bridges. And it isn't Christ-like.

Christ told the rich man to go and sell all he had and follow him. The man walked away sad. He had stuff to think about.
But Jesus didn't say, "Hey, do it or else!" He didn't say, "You make me vomit, you sack of poo!" He didn't say, "You are going to hell!"

He offered the choice, and backed off.

I can't imagine Jesus saying, "Hey, you skanky, unrepentant whore! Mind if I sit and eat with you?"

I can't imagine Jesus saying to someone, "You aren't going to change? Well, I've just eaten bread with you! Well, screw you, you pile of puke!"

Jesus was God, and yet, he humbled himself to the level of sinners.

It seemed to work much better than being a jerk for Jesus.

Your choice. Your karma.

Nineveh
May 5th, 2004, 08:03 AM
smaller,
Why do you justify beanieboy in a "lifestyle" that leads to disease and early death? Do you really hate him so much? Or does he matter to you at all?

smaller
May 5th, 2004, 08:09 AM
I am awaiting your confession of SINLESSness Nin. Before we can discuss it I must be assured that you are in fact SINLESS and a part of my group.

Nineveh
May 5th, 2004, 08:11 AM
And I am fruitlessly waitng for your reply smaller.

smaller
May 5th, 2004, 08:12 AM
Now Nin, you KNOW I am waiting for your declaration of FAITH that Jesus has cleansed YOU from EVERY sin.

Cyrus of Persia
May 5th, 2004, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by philosophizer

There's a difference between struggling and not repenting.

So tell me from what sins Beanieboy needs to repent, but is ignoring it?

Homosexuality is not the question, because it lacks any socio-cultural ground in today's world. We can accept the fact that God condemned it in OT, because it violated the rule of fertility. With nowadays demographics we hardly can believe that God condemns it even today.

The only sin i know of is smoking. Beanieboy admitted it in another thread and said that he is struggling with that. I know what it means, because i have been smoking since age 7 until i got saved in age 16. And even afterwards there has been couple of gloomy years when i falled into the sin again. Thank God, i havent touched it for 12 months already.

But if you insist that being gay is still Beanieboy's sin, then we have no common ground for further discussion about it, because one of us thinks it's sin and another thinks not so.

Nineveh
May 5th, 2004, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by smaller

Now Nin, you KNOW I am waiting for your declaration of FAITH that Jesus has cleansed YOU from EVERY sin.

smaller, I am accustomed to your inability to answer simple questions. Let me help you. On philo's thread you claim to know God calls homoism an abomination. Paul asked: Do we continue in sin so grace might abound? His answer was no, we don't. I am sorry to see you offer beanieboy a false sense of security, not only in the afterlife, but right here on earth. If you know something is wrong according to God Himself, and you are aware it leads to an early death or disease, why on earth you would keep them in such a thing is beyond me. Unless of course you hate him or really just don't care.

smaller
May 5th, 2004, 08:20 AM
Yeah CoP, and MURDER is no longer a sin either. That has surely passed away from today's culture as a SIN right?

beanieboy
May 5th, 2004, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by Nineveh

If Poly is judging wrongly, she will answer to the same God beanieboy will. The difference is, she has the covering of Christ and can stand before the Mighty and Righteous God. Beanieboy has only his works to cover himself with. An unrepentant homosexual covered in his abominations vs a repentant follower of Christ, so tell me folks, which shoes would you rather be in on that day?

: tries on Poly's shoes:

What does beanieboy want? To be left alone in his sin at best, to shut up the Gospel at worst. What does Poly want? To see beanieboy look to Christ for his righteousness.


Poly wants me to be under her control.
She wants me to believe exactly as she does, and I don't, so she throws a temper tantrum like a 2 yr old, cause she can't have her way.

Then she handpicks verses to show how justified she is in preaching the vengence and hatred of God, while ignoring the rest.

You think God is going to be down with that?

I spend a lot of time in prayer. I prayed last night for Poly, for God to soften her heart. I prayed for God to take away the anger I had for Poly's hurtful behavior. Lately, something has been telling me to go to Africa to work with people with AIDS.

I read the Bible, but I interpret differently.
Jesus cursed the fig tree that bore no fruit.
He also chastised those who claimed to know him but did not feed him, clothe him, take care of him in sickness...

He talked a lot about what you are supposed to do.

So Poly can tell me I'm going to hell all she wants.
She isn't God, but acts like she is.

I understand this. I was there at one time too. I used to be very condemning of other people. It's human nature.

But now I am in a different place. If Satan has led me to look for insight in all religions, is leading me to Africa to help the sick, is leading me to daily prayer...

Well, then we are definitely worshipping different Gods.

Chileice
May 5th, 2004, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

It's rather interesting that I don't start threads about homosexuality. christians do. And then when I respond, I am attacked.

And you are surprised that I would respond?

It's a trap. It's dishonest, really. It's on countless threads, and from what I see on TOL, should make up at least 30% of the Bible.

But why stop by condemning homosexuals? Why not go threaten people going to temple? They don't acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God, the unrepentant sinners! Are people who are Muslim? Scream in their face. Very effective. And hindis? Tell them they are going to hell, and then add a couple of "well, y'are"s to it. Very effective. Stand outside of bars, and yell, "Drunkards! Unrepentant drunkards!" I'm sure it will make you feel superior.

Yesterday, I decided to try out the Poly method.
Be a jerk to people, mock them, respond with "Wahhhh, Baby want her bottle" to see how effective it was.

The result?
Poly got angry.
She stopped responding.
She got defensive.

So, the "being mean because I love you" approach can sometimes actually build more walls than bridges. And it isn't Christ-like.

Christ told the rich man to go and sell all he had and follow him. The man walked away sad. He had stuff to think about.
But Jesus didn't say, "Hey, do it or else!" He didn't say, "You make me vomit, you sack of poo!" He didn't say, "You are going to hell!"

He offered the choice, and backed off.

I can't imagine Jesus saying, "Hey, you skanky, unrepentant whore! Mind if I sit and eat with you?"

I can't imagine Jesus saying to someone, "You aren't going to change? Well, I've just eaten bread with you! Well, screw you, you pile of puke!"

Jesus was God, and yet, he humbled himself to the level of sinners.

It seemed to work much better than being a jerk for Jesus.

Your choice. Your karma.


Is it not a sad commentary that the most Christian of responses comes from one who claims to follow Buddha. As for Poly being covered by the blood of Jesus... is she? She sounds like an unrepentant sinner willfully abusing people in the name of the Lord. Will Jesus say "well done" or will he say, "away from me for I never knew you". Accepting Christ is not saying magic words. I think there are many who have said "Lord, Lord" and are lost.

The sin that Jesus most attacked was self-righteousness. He came to save sinners, not those who were "healthy" in their own eyes. I feel bad for Poly because I believe she is being deceived
by people who are leading her astray. I am sur that inside there are many good qualities that God wants to use, but that are hidden behind a mask of false bravado. I imagine she has many fears that need to be dealt with and it is easier to attack than to look to your own heart and ask God for help. I hope you do Poly. I hope that for Nineveh as well. I hope Beanie repents and opens his whole heart to Jesus and realizes His sacrifice was for him.

Although it shouldn't blow my mind, it does, that no one responded to my previous post on page 7. Folks, real life is lived out there in the real world with real people, not screaming obsenities and insults into cyber-space. Bye for now.

Nineveh
May 5th, 2004, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by smaller

Yeah CoP, and MURDER is no longer a sin either. That has surely passed away from today's culture as a SIN right?

I'm sorry you don't want to see beanieboy out of his perverse deathstyle, smaller. It's sad you won't even take a minute to tell him how God really feels about his acts. Your type of love could possibly lead to beanieboy getting diseases and costing him years off his life. That is a sort of love I want no part of. I don't want to see beanieboy become a statistic on the alter of perversity.

Nineveh
May 5th, 2004, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

Poly wants me to be under her control.
She wants me to believe exactly as she does, and I don't, so she throws a temper tantrum like a 2 yr old, cause she can't have her way.

I see Poly reaching out to a sick individual telling him about the Cure.


Then she handpicks verses to show how justified she is in preaching the vengence and hatred of God, while ignoring the rest.

You try to twist the Law into saying something other than God loaths your deathstyle. You are ignoring God's Law, not Poly.


I read the Bible, but I interpret differently.
Jesus cursed the fig tree that bore no fruit.
He also chastised those who claimed to know him but did not feed him, clothe him, take care of him in sickness...

And He also damns those not written in His Book of Life.


So Poly can tell me I'm going to hell all she wants.
She isn't God, but acts like she is.

She cares enough about you to warn you away from your perverseness and toward the Savior.


I understand this. I was there at one time too. I used to be very condemning of other people. It's human nature.

The difference being, righteous judgement using God's Law vs being merely "judgemental".


But now I am in a different place. If Satan has led me to look for insight in all religions, is leading me to Africa to help the sick, is leading me to daily prayer...

Well, then we are definitely worshipping different Gods.

I have no doubt about that.

My God wants you to repent and turn from your perversion. He sent His Son to pay the price for the sin you have commited against Him and others. If you reject Jesus, you reject Life.

beanieboy
May 5th, 2004, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by lighthouse

I told him. Guess what? He ignored me.


Originally posted by lighthouse

beanieboy-
You are not a repentant sinner. You have no room to talk. So, shut up!

A. I did respond, Einstein. I can't help it if you didn't see it.

B. First you say, "Guess I told him" because you believe that I didn't respond. Then you tell me to shut up because I am unrepentant.

Catch 22.

Your arrogance shows that you are unrepentant. Jesus never treated people like this. I can't help it if you miss those parts of the bible.

beanieboy
May 5th, 2004, 08:55 AM
Originally posted by Nineveh
I see Poly reaching out to a sick individual telling him about the Cure.
You try to twist the Law into saying something other than God loaths your deathstyle. You are ignoring God's Law, not Poly.
And He also damns those not written in His Book of Life.
She cares enough about you to warn you away from your perverseness and toward the Savior.
The difference being, righteous judgement using God's Law vs being merely "judgemental".
I have no doubt about that.
My God wants you to repent and turn from your perversion. He sent His Son to pay the price for the sin you have commited against Him and others. If you reject Jesus, you reject Life.

But it is my choice.
Your choice has left you angry, vendictive, self righteous, and self exhalting. And you never repent of it.

I don't want to be like that.
So I reject your religion.

On the one hand, you want me to believe in your blood thursty God, and repent.

Then have the government kill me.

Sorry. You are wacked out of your mind.

I don't listen to crazy Joe screaming on the corner that the End is Near.

beanieboy
May 5th, 2004, 09:01 AM
Originally posted by Nineveh

And I am fruitless

Much closer to the truth.

Nineveh
May 5th, 2004, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

But it is my choice.
Your choice has left you angry, vendictive, self righteous, and self exhalting. And you never repent of it.

Yes. It is your choice to reject Christ. Do you understand you will live forever without God?

Any righteousness I have has been imparted to me by Jesus Christ. I don't rely on myself or my works to attain righteousness. I leave the "self righteousness" up to those who are compelled to define their own morals to justify their unrepentant sins.


I don't want to be like that.
So I reject your religion.

I'm sorry you don't want to be saved :( You need to know, it's not "my religion" you are rejecting, any religion I may or may not have won't save you, only Christ can do that.


On the one hand, you want me to believe in your blood thursty God, and repent.

Then have the government kill me.

If this nation had kept sodomy against the law, I serously doubt you would be so willing to offer your life on the alter of sex as you are now. But once again, I will point out, homosexuals are the leading cause of homosexual death.

Nineveh
May 5th, 2004, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

Much closer to the truth.

Pretty "judgemental" there beanieboy, I thought you gave all that up ? You don't seem to be afraid to judge, it's a pity you are merely "judgemental" instead of being able to "judging rightly".

Nietzschean
May 5th, 2004, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by Poly

There are some really mean people on this board. They don't care enough about unbelievers to warn them of the destruction that awaits them. They lie to them and lead them down the wrong path saying such things as "God loves everybody".

As mean as I am, even I don't stoop that low. If you read this, God hates you. See how nice I am?

servent101
May 5th, 2004, 09:51 AM
Sibbie
quote:
Originally posted by philosophizer

That's the point: hypocracy of unrepentance. Not disgust at sin.

Great point, philo! I truly wish others like servent101 and beanieboy could see that.

Possibly we would both agree with this
as originally posted by adajos



So, is the Bible contradicting itself then about how we are to deal with sinners? No. I think the overall idea that should be understood is that there is a time and a place for loving sinners and a time and place for dealing with them harshly.

This is my problem with Enyarts' "Nicer Than God" stuff. He takes one aspect of Christ, the fact that He could be harsh in some circumstances, and extrapolates too much from that. He could also be kind to sinners. As a result you end up having people on this board feeling godly and righteous because they call a somebody else a disgusting queer who makes them want to puke. That's just wrong. And the worst thing is, they think that is being loving.


And to add - some people are able to do this - and it works, others try to do this and it only makes matters worse - where in the Bible do you read that all people need to do this - in real life a lot of people who try to call sinners to the mat, only make matters worse - and it is more difficult for people who can by a gift of the Spirit to call people to repentance.

Where is your concern for your effective use of your time, did you ever consider to take your nose out of the Bible and see if you are doing any good? - And possibly you are doing more harm? - but No it appears not so - you just bash people with the bible - (bible in one hand, club in the other and it is like a thrill to you - you people make me sick.

With Christ's Love

Servent101

beanieboy
May 5th, 2004, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by Nineveh

Yes. It is your choice to reject Christ. Do you understand you will live forever without God?

Any righteousness I have has been imparted to me by Jesus Christ.

Righteousness? I have yet to see it, you smug, arrogant jerk.

The way you are now, I want to live forever without you. That is why I reject your bloodthirsty God. Because of you. I don't want to spend eternity with people that act like they are holier than thou, then when called on it, claim that it is Jesus within them. I don't want to spend eternity that say hate is love, and love is hate. I don't want to spend eternity with people that want to kill off all gay people. If you represent God, I want nothing to do with him. How many times do I need to say this? It's you that I am rejecting.

You can explain that to God while I'm playing chess with Gandhi.

On Fire
May 5th, 2004, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy
You can explain that to God while I'm playing chess with Gandhi.

Gandhi doesn't play chess.

Nietzschean
May 5th, 2004, 10:03 AM
So far as I know he does.

On Fire
May 5th, 2004, 10:03 AM
No, he doesn't.

smaller
May 5th, 2004, 10:03 AM
Greetings Nin

This really is so much fun...;)


smaller, I am accustomed to your inability to answer simple questions.

But NIN, I am awaiting your CONFESSION OF SINLESSNESS for what? Several posts now. So COUGH up that hairball.


Let me help you. On philo's thread you claim to know God calls homoism an abomination. Paul asked: Do we continue in sin so grace might abound? His answer was no, we don't. I am sorry to see you offer beanieboy a false sense of security, not only in the afterlife, but right here on earth. If you know something is wrong according to God Himself, and you are aware it leads to an early death or disease, why on earth you would keep them in such a thing is beyond me. Unless of course you hate him or really just don't care.

But you SEE Nin, If God did not want HOMOSEXUALITY to EXIST it would not BE HERE. He could easily just snap His Fingers and MAKE IT disappear but He doesn't.

Beanieboy can no more do ANYTHING about what he happens to be bound with THAN YOU.

IN ADDITION if you think homosexuality is WORSE than hating someone to the EXTENT that you would CONDEMN THEM TO ETERNAL TORTURE for what JESUS DIED FOR then you are the sicker one here NIN, no matter how much MAKE UP you put on.

So you see Nin, I see you in a WORSE CONDITION and do not envy beanieboy being called by God FROM THAT POSITION. He surely has a greater burden to bear eh?

Those things that are done is beanieboys BODY are judged, sentenced, and awaiting punishment. Beanieboy and the DISOBEDIENCE that is with him ARE NOT THE SAME things.

I will not CALL HOMOSEXUALITY good or legal, nor DO I HAVE TO.

I am STILL OBLIGATED TO LOVE MY NEIGHBOR. You may be well advised to do so as well if you claim to be HIS DISCIPLE.

Now about that SINLESSNESS????


I'm sorry you don't want to see beanieboy out of his perverse deathstyle, smaller.

NIN, I don't control other peoples hearts or their lives. I do believe God has purposes with ALL people that will work out for THE GOOD of ALL. I am advised to love both my NEIGHBORs and my ENEMIES, not condemn them to burn in eternal fire. This latter portion is FAR from love and is THE GREATER SIN.


It's sad you won't even take a minute to tell him how God really feels about his acts.

You can take this to your SPIRITUAL BANK. God is MUCH MORE ANGRY with your ETERNAL JUDGMENT OF OTHERS than he will EVER BE with a homosexual or even a MURDERER.


Your type of love could possibly lead to beanieboy getting diseases and costing him years off his life. That is a sort of love I want no part of. I don't want to see beanieboy become a statistic on the alter of perversity.

And ETERNAL JUDGMENT OF OTHERS has seared your conscious to the point where you do NOT EVEN RECOGNIZE WHAT OR WHO LOVE REALLY IS.

You think GOD ONLY LOVES PERFECTION??? Then He LOVES only HIMSELF.

enjoy!

smaller

beanieboy
May 5th, 2004, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by Poly

There are some really mean people on this board. They don't care enough about unbelievers to warn them of the destruction that awaits them. They lie to them and lead them down the wrong path saying such things as "God loves everybody".

Doesn't the bible say, "for God so loved THE WORLD"?

According to Poly, whoever wrote this is a liar, and doesn't really care about unbelievers.

Nietzschean
May 5th, 2004, 10:05 AM
Powerful words man. I totally dig the groove.

On Fire
May 5th, 2004, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

Doesn't the bible say, "for God so loved THE WORLD"?


Hey, beanie, why don't you start a thread where we can post halves of stuff? Half a bible verse. Half truths. Stuff like that.

servent101
May 5th, 2004, 10:40 AM
beanieboy
Righteousness? I have yet to see it, you smug, arrogant jerk.

The way you are now, I want to live forever without you. That is why I reject your bloodthirsty God. Because of you. I don't want to spend eternity with people that act like they are holier than thou, then when called on it, claim that it is Jesus within them. I don't want to spend eternity that say hate is love, and love is hate. I don't want to spend eternity with people that want to kill off all gay people. If you represent God, I want nothing to do with him. How many times do I need to say this? It's you that I am rejecting.

I know how you feel - and see the result of these people's views all over the place - takes five months to deprogram the general population from the effects of these people - so that they can understand the "Good News" - it is a shame and a travesty - I wish these people would shut up - the best thing they could do for the Lord - but it is not only a psychosis - it is a physical addiction to adrenalin that they have to deal with - they are addicted to the adrenalin rush that accompanies such outlandish interpretations of the Scripture - they choose to be cantankerous to other people to get an adrenalin rush - and that gives them the energy to fuel the rest of the day's activities - without bashing someone every hour – their lives just suck.

With Christ's Love

Servent101

beanieboy
May 5th, 2004, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by Nineveh

Pretty "judgemental" there beanieboy, I thought you gave all that up ? You don't seem to be afraid to judge, it's a pity you are merely "judgemental" instead of being able to "judging rightly".

Why is it that anyone who is judgemental gets agree at being judged themself?

You are a hypocrite.

I welcome you to judge me as you see fit. It doesn't effect me. You aren't God.

Judging rightly? I imagine you being Simon, and when asked who loves his master more, the one forgiven a small debt, or the one forgiven a large debt, that you would argue, "Yeah, but she's a whore!"

You are a fool.
I make this judgement from reading many, many of your posts, and make a decision based on all that I have seen.
I think that you are blind.

beanieboy
May 5th, 2004, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by AtheistsSuck

Hey, beanie, why don't you start a thread where we can post halves of stuff? Half a bible verse. Half truths. Stuff like that.

Does it or does it not say that Jesus was sent because God loved everyone?

God didn't send Christ for the saved. He came for the sinners.

Or are you suggesting that God sent Christ only for those who already believed, and only loved the saved?
Kind of makes Christ's death pointless.

Swordsman
May 5th, 2004, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

Does it or does it not say that Jesus was sent because God loved everyone?

No it does not. "Everyone" is never mentioned as to whom God loves.


God didn't send Christ for the saved. He came for the sinners.

Christ came to redeem(or save) the elect. Yes, all of the elect are sinners.


Or are you suggesting that God sent Christ only for those who already believed, and only loved the saved?
Kind of makes Christ's death pointless.

Only for the elect. He did not die in vain for the non-elect.

Aimiel
May 5th, 2004, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by smaller

You know I can't imagine beanieboy, being what he is and all, being CHOSEN by God to HEAR and UNDERSTAND, yet he has the greater predicament having been called from THAT position (no pun intended)Your 'pun' shows that you are being self-righteous. Beanieboy might find salvation in The Lord. Jesus said that everyone that is not against Him is for Him. He may be working with Beanie, and you might be surprised by what He may yet become. Merely speaking about The Lord has already had effects upon Him that are eternal. The things that we do are important, which is the reason that I try to speak against the heresy that you spout. I have yet to see anyone else (professing Christ) to agree with you completely. Do you know of anyone who does?
Do you think this CALLING upon him is to DAMN HIS FELLOW SINNERS to BURN IN HELL or to REPRESENT God's Love even to THEM?It is appointed unto men, once, to die; but after this, the judgement. No one will get into Heaven on works. No one will get into Heaven because Jesus died upon the cross. Those who are related (only by adoption, since Jesus is The Only Begotton of The Father) to The Lord (Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost, men's relationship with Him) The Lord will be allowed into His Home. You don't let strangers into your home, even ones who might come to your door, saying, "I'm a good man, I've obeyed the Ten Commandments, let me in," do you? No. They have to be related to you, either by blood or by your friendship, however you define that. The same holds true for The Lord, except He demands perfection. Nothing that defiles will be allowed into Heaven, and no one who is lost will have The Blood of The Lamb applied to them, without having had faith in Him in this life.
You see AIMiel, I do not think that I am better than anyone else.That has been proven, time and again. You consider me and all those who believe the truth of salvation to be beneath you, and shouldn't try to deny it.
No SIN will make the BLOOD OF CHRIST of NO EFFECT. Never has, never will.It is the application (or lack thereof) that we differ over.
What makes us think Christ DID NOT DIE for His OTHER enemies??? Or does Christ ONLY LOVE His friends???I never said that. He died for them, but His Blood is not applied to their lives, unless they believe in Him.

Swordsman
May 5th, 2004, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by smaller
What makes us think Christ DID NOT DIE for His OTHER enemies??? Or does Christ ONLY LOVE His friends???

Originally posted by Aimiel
I never said that. He died for them, but His Blood is not applied to their lives, unless they believe in Him.

:think: So He died for those who would never believe in Him? Sounds to me like there is some atonement out there that just never gets applied. Or you could just look at it as He died in vain for those who wouldn't believe. Right?

So salvation is just a wild invitation to anyone and everyone?

beanieboy
May 5th, 2004, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by Swordsman

No it does not. "Everyone" is never mentioned as to whom God loves.
Christ came to redeem(or save) the elect. Yes, all of the elect are sinners.


In my version of the Bible, it says that Jesus came to heal the sick, not the well. It says that he leaves the flock to find the 1 lost sheep.

It doesn't say, "for God so loved the world* that whosoever* should believe in him..."

*world, as in, only the elect
*except for the sinners, which he would just as soon squash like a bug..."

Is that your interpretation?

Weird that God only loved the elect, yet Jesus made disciples out of people who were previously nonbelieving sinners.

Odd, huh? Too bad you didn't set him straight.

Kronus
May 5th, 2004, 11:53 AM
I understand, respect, and believe what you are saying, Poly.

I only have one question: how do you feel about Christians who on this site wish other people dead and state directly that their mother is promiscuous to put it lightly?

You know, the guy you travel an extra mile to justify on a regular basis.

What about his meanness?

Oh, yeah....open rebuke is better than secret love.

I thought so.

Swordsman
May 5th, 2004, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

In my version of the Bible, it says that Jesus came to heal the sick, not the well. It says that he leaves the flock to find the 1 lost sheep.

Keyword = sheep. Notice He looks for His sheep. Even though they may be away from the flock, they are still His sheep. They just haven't come into the fold yet. (i.e. the doctrine of election)


It doesn't say, "for God so loved the world* that whosoever* should believe in him..."

*world, as in, only the elect
*except for the sinners, which he would just as soon squash like a bug..."

Is that your interpretation?

Weird that God only loved the elect, yet Jesus made disciples out of people who were previously nonbelieving sinners.

Odd, huh? Too bad you didn't set him straight.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
If election is true, then why does this verse state "whosoever believes" will be saved? The Bible says that faith is a gift from God (Rom. 12:3); that it is God who grants belief (Phil. 1:29); it is God who produces belief in a person (John 6:29); and only those appointed to eternal life by God are the ones who believe (Acts 13:48). Also, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Rom. 10:17). In order for someone to believe, they must hear the gospel of Jesus (1 Cor. 15:1-4) because the gospel is the power of God for salvation (Rom. 1:16). There is no other name under heaven besides Jesus by which anyone may be saved (Act 4:12). And, one must receive Jesus (John 1:12) in order to be saved.
Since these things are true, then how can the "whosoever" of John 3:16 apply to those who never heard the Word of God? There are multitudes who never heard the gospel at all, who never had the chance. Consider those who lived before the time of Christ. Yet they NEVER heard ANYTHING about Christianity, the atonement, the resurrection, the holy scriptures, or the gospel. It was never preached to them at all. How, then, can the "whosoever" apply to them when they have no chance of hearing the Word of God concerning Jesus and salvation? From what I know of scripture, they cannot.
Though Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient for all, it was not efficacious for all. Jesus only bore the sins of the elect. Support for this position is drawn from such scriptures as Matt. 26:28 where Jesus died for ‘many'; John 10:11, 15 which say that Jesus died for the sheep (not the goats, per Matt. 25:32-33).

beanieboy
May 5th, 2004, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by Aimiel
You don't let strangers into your home, even ones who might come to your door, saying, "I'm a good man, I've obeyed the Ten Commandments, let me in," do you? No.

Why do you think that Jesus said that at judgement, people will say, "When did I see you naked and clothe you?"

These people aren't doing it to get into heaven.
They do it because they are good.
It is its own reward.
And Jesus says that if you do these things, you are doing them for him.

I pray a lot, and often I pray for the opportunity to be used by God. When I see the opportunity, I thank God, not expect a paycheck.

And if at the end of it, I am sent to hell, so be it.
But that is not how God talks to me.
He sees me as me, and if anything, is nothing but encouraging.

beanieboy
May 5th, 2004, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by Swordsman

Keyword = sheep. Notice He looks for His sheep. Even though they may be away from the flock, they are still His sheep. They just haven't come into the fold yet. (i.e. the doctrine of election)



John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
If election is true, then why does this verse state "whosoever believes" will be saved? The Bible says that faith is a gift from God (Rom. 12:3); that it is God who grants belief (Phil. 1:29); it is God who produces belief in a person (John 6:29); and only those appointed to eternal life by God are the ones who believe (Acts 13:48). Also, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Rom. 10:17). In order for someone to believe, they must hear the gospel of Jesus (1 Cor. 15:1-4) because the gospel is the power of God for salvation (Rom. 1:16). There is no other name under heaven besides Jesus by which anyone may be saved (Act 4:12). And, one must receive Jesus (John 1:12) in order to be saved.
Since these things are true, then how can the "whosoever" of John 3:16 apply to those who never heard the Word of God? There are multitudes who never heard the gospel at all, who never had the chance. Consider those who lived before the time of Christ. Yet they NEVER heard ANYTHING about Christianity, the atonement, the resurrection, the holy scriptures, or the gospel. It was never preached to them at all. How, then, can the "whosoever" apply to them when they have no chance of hearing the Word of God concerning Jesus and salvation? From what I know of scripture, they cannot.
Though Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient for all, it was not efficacious for all. Jesus only bore the sins of the elect. Support for this position is drawn from such scriptures as Matt. 26:28 where Jesus died for ‘many'; John 10:11, 15 which say that Jesus died for the sheep (not the goats, per Matt. 25:32-33).

Lucky, lucky you.
Pharisee.

One who argues predestination calls God a liar, and is a lazy person.

Swordsman
May 5th, 2004, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by beanieboy

Lucky, lucky you.
Pharisee.

Now why do you need to stoop to name-calling?


One who argues predestination calls God a liar, and is a lazy person.

Sorry you feel that way. Perhaps one day you will take the time to read those references I gave you, get down on your knees and pray to God to speak to you the truth through His Word.

That is the only way anyone can come to the truth. Not by these debates on here. I do sincerely believe though that God can speak through His sheep and provide guidance in the Word. There are believers right here on this forum that use their God-given talents to exhort other believers.

Cyrus of Persia
May 5th, 2004, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by smaller

Yeah CoP, and MURDER is no longer a sin either. That has surely passed away from today's culture as a SIN right?

Even as you rised this matter as sarcasm, it's utterly stupid from you, Smaller. I hoped you are capable for deeper thinking as this. At least you expected it from your readers. Why do you fell short in understanding what somebody else says? Do you even TRY to understand? I tried to understand your points, and i think i was pretty succesful.

Try less sarcasm in future, less i dont see any reason why should i bother to understand your messages.

Chileice
May 5th, 2004, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by servent101

beanieboy

I know how you feel - and see the result of these people's views all over the place - takes five months to deprogram the general population from the effects of these people - so that they can understand the "Good News" - it is a shame and a travesty - I wish these people would shut up - the best thing they could do for the Lord - but it is not only a psychosis - it is a physical addiction to adrenalin that they have to deal with - they are addicted to the adrenalin rush that accompanies such outlandish interpretations of the Scripture - they choose to be cantankerous to other people to get an adrenalin rush - and that gives them the energy to fuel the rest of the day's activities - without bashing someone every hour – their lives just suck.

With Christ's Love

Servent101

YOU ARE RIGHT!!

It is an unhealthy addiction. I don't know why I couldn't see that before. It is an adrenaline rush that makes them feel better by stepping on others. Easier to bash than to look in the mirror.

smaller
May 5th, 2004, 12:54 PM
Greetings Swordsman


So He died for those who would never believe in Him? Sounds to me like there is some atonement out there that just never gets applied.

When you can get your theology past GOD SAVING THE ENEMIES OF THE GOSPEL in Romans 11:26-31 then you can come and trumpet about how God does not LOVE His enemies OK. None can overcome this FACT. God LOVES even His enemies. Jesus said SO. Paul said SO.

The fact that YOU DO NOT merely MARKS YOU as a resistor to this truth even though YOU THINK YOU STAND.


Or you could just look at it as He died in vain for those who wouldn't believe. Right?

My position is on the table of sharing.


So salvation is just a wild invitation to anyone and everyone?

"God IS the SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN, especially those who believe." 1 Tim. 4:10

What do I care if you do not see it?

smaller

beanieboy
May 5th, 2004, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by Swordsman

Now why do you need to stoop to name-calling?



Sorry you feel that way. Perhaps one day you will take the time to read those references I gave you, get down on your knees and pray to God to speak to you the truth through His Word.

That is the only way anyone can come to the truth. Not by these debates on here. I do sincerely believe though that God can speak through His sheep and provide guidance in the Word. There are believers right here on this forum that use their God-given talents to exhort other believers.

A Pharisee is what you are being, and this thread is played by Poly's rules. You are supposed to call people names, to show how much you love them.

As for predestination, what is the point of freewill?

And you still haven't explained why Jesus was getting disciples who were tax collectors, etc - the "sinners" who repented.

Hardly the predestined, already following God Elect, like you, your Excellency.

Cyrus of Persia
May 5th, 2004, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by beanieboy

In my version of the Bible, it says that Jesus came to heal the sick, not the well. It says that he leaves the flock to find the 1 lost sheep.

It doesn't say, "for God so loved the world* that whosoever* should believe in him..."

*world, as in, only the elect
*except for the sinners, which he would just as soon squash like a bug..."

Is that your interpretation?

Weird that God only loved the elect, yet Jesus made disciples out of people who were previously nonbelieving sinners.

Odd, huh? Too bad you didn't set him straight.

Nope, it's not his interpretation. It's the interpretation of the devil himself who told this nonsense to his father Calvin and it's followers.

God of OT who wanted to kill even few nations was not near as cruel as is God of Calvin, who says that majority will go to Hell without asking from them do they want to get saved, or not. They are just doomed to give "glory to God" :eek:

beanieboy
May 5th, 2004, 01:03 PM
More like, the Gory to God.

Have we learned nothing from history? :(

smaller
May 5th, 2004, 01:04 PM
Greetings CoP

At the risk of offending someone whom I personally like I cannot NOT call homosexuality a sin no more than NOT calling murder a sin. I am sorry that you deny God's Word in The Law on this matter.


Even as you rised this matter as sarcasm, it's utterly stupid from you, Smaller. I hoped you are capable for deeper thinking as this.

I believe that there is a spiritual application of THIS LAW against homosexuality as well as ALL The Law, but it is only for those who can accept The Law as it is written. One cannot move past this issue while denying the validity of homosexuality being a sin as well as murder is.


At least you expected it from your readers. Why do you fell short in understanding what somebody else says? Do you even TRY to understand? I tried to understand your points, and i think i was pretty succesful.

I am willing to say that you will have your point of intolerance as well CoP. So where is YOUR PERSONAL LINE??? I do not have to JUSTIFY homosexuality. I consider it something that God has certainly bound some to. I would also say that God even RAISES these enemies AGAINST THE CHURCH, so it is as much OUR FAULTS as any. I will look to myself before I will BLAME any for SIN.

YOU KNOW I do not see SIN INDWELLING and EVIL PRESENT to be the SAME AS Mankind. Sin, evil, and death are surely SLATED FOR DESTRUCTION. I have no need in being an ally of what will be DESTROYED, but what will PREVAIL and that is HIS LOVE TO ALL.


Try less sarcasm in future, less i dont see any reason why should i bother to understand your messages.

Now you know where I stand. Will you support the pedophile etc.???

There is no need for me to try to justify homosexuality to beanieboy. He is what he is. I did not create him. We all bear our respective crosses on the issues of sin and we will ALL DIE in the flesh because of sin AT THE HANDS OF SINNERS, just as JESUS did.

Even you will draw the line somewhere CoP??? I have no problem drawing THAT LINE where the O.T. Law was written, understanding of WHO it is written AGAINST and who it is FOR.

Unfortunately we are all ON THE SIDE that HAS SIN, so the homosexual and the angry are THE SAME TO ME. None can say they are IMMUNE from SIN in their FLESH. If they do they are simply LIARS.

What is kinda funny though is that this is used to DRAW OUT ALL THOSE WHO CLAIM THEY HAVE NO SIN, and in this we surely see the "wolves" who wear the clothes of SHEEP.

enjoy!

smaller

Swordsman
May 5th, 2004, 01:11 PM
John 13:34-35 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

We Christians are to be united in the body of Christ. We are to be living according to the words of Jesus.

The anti-Christians who misrepresent Christianity and who attack it and Christians do much to bring discord, division, and resentment. In so doing, they disobey the word of God.

Who is it who wants division in the body of Christ, God or the devil? If they bring discord and division, then are they working for God? How can they be?

Cyrus of Persia
May 5th, 2004, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by smaller

At the risk of offending someone whom I personally like I cannot NOT call homosexuality a sin no more than NOT calling murder a sin. I am sorry that you deny God's Word in The Law on this matter.


I know that for you sin is sin, and we can agree it upon what the Bible says: we have ALL sinned and we ALL deserve death no matter what sin we are involved.

But if you read my post more carefully i do see the Bible what contains God's eternal truths also as a book written in certain context and culture. Homosexuality IMHO was against God's command: Be fruitful and multiply. Onan has given us as an example of somebody who wasted his seed. And the Bible condemns his act. So does the Bible condemn homosexuality, because:

1) it misused the seed

2) as already seen wrong, because of #1 point, it became filthy that deserved death penalty under the Law just like having sex during menstruation was filthy and deserved death penalty under the Law

TODAY we live in the world of demographic explosion. Some countries are struggling trying to restrict births. We are not certain how long our Earth will survive as resources are limited. So i see no reason why homosexuality should be considered as sin today. The same goes for role of women what has changed IMHO too because of developments in medicine, technology, and due improvements in living conditions.

We were arguing one day about pure and unpure meats. You said that the Law never changes. I said that it was modified in NT. I think that both perspectives are true: Christ did not changed the Law, but interpreted it in essence. And the essence of the Law was God's Eternal Truth that is separated from cultural conditions. Unclean animal restrictions were the product of specific culture. So was homosexualism. NT condemns homosexualism as it condemns many more things in Letter of Romans. But NT has even not get rid of slavery support. The culture of slavery is still there.

NOW: if Jesus spoke the essence of the Law to His people, and uncovered it from some cultural robes, then WHY He cannot speak to us again today, because socio-cultural conditions are drastically changed from NT times? IT's very simple question: WHY?




Now you know where I stand. Will you support the pedophile etc.


Nope, as it usually goes against the will of child. Homosexuality when done in mutual agreement is not similar act.



Even you will draw the line somewhere CoP. I have no problem drawing THAT LINE where the O.T. Law was written, understanding of WHO it is written AGAINST and who it is FOR.


Yes, i do. There are some principles i use to judge every norms. One of those are double command given by Jesus and His own example.



[/QUOTE]

smaller
May 5th, 2004, 01:26 PM
Greetings AIMiel (what an appropriate name! an AIM meal)
quote from smaller:
You know I can't imagine beanieboy, being what he is and all, being CHOSEN by God to HEAR and UNDERSTAND, yet he has the greater predicament having been called from THAT position (no pun intended)


Your 'pun' shows that you are being self-righteous. Beanieboy might find salvation in The Lord. Jesus said that everyone that is not against Him is for Him. He may be working with Beanie, and you might be surprised by what He may yet become. Merely speaking about The Lord has already had effects upon Him that are eternal. The things that we do are important, which is the reason that I try to speak against the heresy that you spout. I have yet to see anyone else (professing Christ) to agree with you completely. Do you know of anyone who does?

If you bothered to read my posts AIMiel I do not condone homosexuality and if God happens to RELEASE beanieboy from it MORE POWER TO HIM. Obviously beanieboy cannot help but to be what HE THINKS he is. Can YOU?

I see you ETERNALLY DAMNING others to TORTURE. To me there is not even a REMOTE COMPARISON to YOUR sin and beanieboys. YOURS is much much worse. One cannot HATE anymore than this.

You damnation dudes have not figured this out yet because you are SO STEEPED INTO THIS DARKNESS. It has SEARED your consciousness past recognition OF LOVE to others.
quote from smaller:
Do you think this CALLING upon him is to DAMN HIS FELLOW SINNERS to BURN IN HELL or to REPRESENT God's Love even to THEM?


It is appointed unto men, once, to die; but after this, the judgement. No one will get into Heaven on works. No one will get into Heaven because Jesus died upon the cross.

Well if the second part of your SENTENCE is TRUE then none have ANY HOPE. Let me show HOW SIN IN YOU has DECEIVED YOU on this matter of the CROSS and HEAVEN.

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Now this was HIS WORK and HIS RECONCILIATION. If you want to DENY THIS or RESIST THIS then that is the SIN that God has PLACED YOU UNDER.


Those who are related (only by adoption, since Jesus is The Only Begotton of The Father) to The Lord (Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost, men's relationship with Him) The Lord will be allowed into His Home. You don't let strangers into your home, even ones who might come to your door, saying, "I'm a good man, I've obeyed the Ten Commandments, let me in," do you? No. They have to be related to you, either by blood or by your friendship, however you define that. The same holds true for The Lord, except He demands perfection. Nothing that defiles will be allowed into Heaven, and no one who is lost will have The Blood of The Lamb applied to them, without having had faith in Him in this life.

Now AIMiel, you know that I believe SIN INDWELLING and EVIL PRESENT with ALL people is not the SAME AS them. On this basis I understand who the STRANGER is that Jesus DOES NOT KNOW.

I do not mark ANY MAN as being these "strangers" but the MAN OF SIN and SIN IS OF THE DEVIL.

You no more ADOPT YOURSELF than anyone else. This would also be A WORK on your part. If you consider yourself ADOPTED then it is THE FATHER who adopts THE SON, not the other way around. Jesus told US that God was THE FATHER of US ALL.

quote from smaller:
You see AIMiel, I do not think that I am better than anyone else.


That has been proven, time and again. You consider me and all those who believe the truth of salvation to be beneath you, and shouldn't try to deny it.

I CONDEMN that OTHER STRANGER who OWNS YOUR FLESH AND YOUR MIND to the extent that IT damns OTHERS to be TORTURED.

I don't expect YOU to understand this.
quote from smaller:
No SIN will make the BLOOD OF CHRIST of NO EFFECT. Never has, never will.


It is the application (or lack thereof) that we differ over.

All things in heaven and earth are clear enough for me AIMiel. I am not willing to LIMIT The Blood of Jesus. I am surprised that you would step down to that so quickly.
quote from smaller:
What makes us think Christ DID NOT DIE for His OTHER enemies??? Or does Christ ONLY LOVE His friends???


I never said that. He died for them, but His Blood is not applied to their lives, unless they believe in Him.

No man can believe unless THE FATHER draws same. If The Father has not so drawn who am I to say what His Purpose is WITH THAT LIFE? As far as I am concerned THAT LIFE, like YOURS, will be used to judge THE SIN AND EVIL that dwell there and to SHOW GOD'S ETERNAL MERCY TO US IN A FIRST HAND WAY.

In this I see His Wisdom.

enjoy!

smaller

beanieboy
May 5th, 2004, 01:38 PM
Let me ask this.

Many heterosexuals, probably the majority, have premarital sex.
I was told that that was much more excusable, because it wasn't an abomination, and that the person would more than likely get married one day, and suddenly, being sexually active would be ok.

However, I know of few people who get married because they want to turn away from their premarital sex lifestyle, nor are they repentent.

So, hell train?

On Fire
May 5th, 2004, 01:41 PM
No repentance = hell train. Sin is sin.

smaller
May 5th, 2004, 01:46 PM
Greetings CoP


I know that for you sin is sin, and we can agree it upon what the Bible says: we have ALL sinned and we ALL deserve death no matter what sin we are involved.

I do not say ANY MAN is deserving of ETERNAL TORTURE. This is waaayyyyy beyond DIVINE JUSTICE and as James tells us MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUSTICE. ALL will receive ETERNAL MERCY and this will NOT WEAR OUT.


But if you read my post more carefully i do see the Bible what contains God's eternal truths also as a book written in certain context and culture. Homosexuality IMHO was against God's command: Be fruitful and multiply. Onan has given us as an example of somebody who wasted his seed. And the Bible condemns his act. So does the Bible condemn homosexuality, because:

1) it misused the seed

2) as already seen wrong, because of #1 point, it became filthy that deserved death penalty under the Law just like having sex during menstruation was filthy and deserved death penalty under the Law

The Law is INTOLERANT of ANYTHING BUT PERFECTION. Perfection however is NOT OF THE LAW. Strange isn't it?

God even hated people with skin blemishes. How petty is that? But HEY, PERFECTION has His Requirements.


TODAY we live in the world of demographic explosion. Some countries are struggling trying to restrict births. We are not certain how long our Earth will survive as resources are limited. So i see no reason why homosexuality should be considered as sin today.

God's Laws on these matters HAS NOT CHANGED nor WILL IT. Heaven and earth will pass away before ONE JOT OR TITTLE OF THE LAW WILL PASS AWAY. (Jesus)

The Law is NOT SUBJECT to change.


The same goes for role of women what has changed IMHO too because of developments in medicine, technology, and due improvements in living conditions.

We were arguing one day about pure and unpure meats. You said that the Law never changes. I said that it was modified in NT. I think that both perspectives are true: Christ did not changed the Law, but interpreted it in essence.

There is an application of the law that is AGAINST SIN IN THE FLESH and there is a SPIRITUAL APPLICATION in every law as well. They BOTH stand. It is US as BELIEVERS who have failed to DISCERN what The Law says to whom.

The Law is also written AGAINST those invisible powers that we WAR against. I do not see this as the SAME AS mankind. This is also why I CANNOT CHANGE IT.


And the essence of the Law was God's Eternal Truth that is separated from cultural conditions. Unclean animal restrictions were the product of specific culture. So was homosexualism. NT condemns homosexualism as it condemns many more things in Letter of Romans. But NT has even not get rid of slavery support. The culture of slavery is still there.

I think we can see that GOD EVEN COMMANDED to TAKE SLAVES. Do you think He was talking about MANkind? Those things that are written of to ISRAEL of THE FLESH were a SPIRITUAL EXAMPLE that is written for us upon whom has arrived the END OF THE AGE.

This can be a rather deep conversation, but you are looking in the RIGHT direction CoP. Just don't ask me to DENY THE LAW. This CANNOT be done. I cannot deny GOD'S WORD and IF I did it would not matter. It would simply mark me as a RESISTOR and I will not give the RESISTOR a toehold.


NOW: if Jesus spoke the essence of the Law to His people, and uncovered it from some cultural robes, then WHY He cannot speak to us again today, because socio-cultural conditions are drastically changed from NT times? IT's very simple question: WHY?

I do not think you would find Jesus patting the act of homosexuality on the back nor would Jesus condone murder or child molestation.

The Word set aside such things in preparation for DESTRUCTION but that time has not yet come. Sin indwelling and EVIL present with all is the GENERATION who has not yet passed who will see ALL THESE THINGS come to pass.

One will be taken (the Child of God) and one will be left (THE MAN OF SIN THAT IS PRESENT WITH ALL.)

It is upon this LATTER that WRATH will fall. I try not to get too close eh?

quote from smaller:
Now you know where I stand. Will you support the pedophile etc.


Nope, as it usually goes against the will of child. Homosexuality when done in mutual agreement is not similar act.'

The Law tells me otherwise. WE cannot DENY The Law and say we STAND with The Word. It cannot be done. The Law was made to CLEARLY REVEAL that such things are indeed WITH US all in various ways. To take away THE LIGHT that is IN THE LAW is not good nor is it wise.

quote from smaller:
Even you will draw the line somewhere CoP. I have no problem drawing THAT LINE where the O.T. Law was written, understanding of WHO it is written AGAINST and who it is FOR.


Yes, i do. There are some principles i use to judge every norms. One of those are double command given by Jesus and His own example.

I will respect The Word on this matter to what I have seen in it. I do not think you can fault me on the conclusions of any of this as I do not condemn ANY MAN for sin.

Yet in the same breath neither do I CONDONE the works of SIN AND EVIL or deny that ANY FLESH has it.

It is a FINE WALK. Who is equipped to be an aroma of life to life and death to death??? 2 Cor. 2:16

Paul showed us a BETTER WAY eh? What say you?

enjoy!

smaller

Cyrus of Persia
May 5th, 2004, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by smaller

I do not say ANY MAN is deserving of ETERNAL TORTURE. This is waaayyyyy beyond DIVINE JUSTICE and as James tells us MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUSTICE. ALL will receive ETERNAL MERCY and this will NOT WEAR OUT.


Where did i said anything about "eternal torture"? I just said what Rom 6:23 says: everyone has sinned and the wage of sin is DEATH. But it's God's gift that by salvation everyone can escape from death.




God's Laws on these matters HAS NOT CHANGED nor WILL IT. Heaven and earth will pass away before ONE JOT OR TITTLE OF THE LAW WILL PASS AWAY. (Jesus)

The Law is NOT SUBJECT to change.


OMG! :help:

How should i explain it to you then? You can ignore it thousands of times but God CLEARLY looks at pure and unpure animals DIFFERENTLY in NT than it was in OT Law. I cannot help it, but i read it plainly. And it shows me that something changed somewhere. :help:




There is an application of the law that is AGAINST SIN IN THE FLESH and there is a SPIRITUAL APPLICATION in every law as well. They BOTH stand. It is US as BELIEVERS who have failed to DISCERN what The Law says to whom.


I'm either uncapable to discern between the spiritual application and literal application of the Law, or you just try to imply your own interpretations to the Bible that MAY BE right, but may be not. Maybe you help me with some simple examples to see the difference between those two?



The Law is also written AGAINST those invisible powers that we WAR against. I do not see this as the SAME AS mankind.


I dont see it anywhere in the Bible. Can you help me to see?




I think we can see that GOD EVEN COMMANDED to TAKE SLAVES. Do you think He was talking about MANkind? Those things that are written of to ISRAEL of THE FLESH were a SPIRITUAL EXAMPLE that is written for us upon whom has arrived the END OF THE AGE.


Aha, now i see it again. You are implying spiritual interpretation to literal texts. It can be so, but it can also lead to false interpretations. In this case it doesnt help us much, because Jews followed the literal rule about slavery, so did they with homosexualism and eating meat.

I admit that Paul is using too many times allegory for OT, but i also see him sometimes losing the actual meaning due of his interpretation. For example 1 Cor 9:9.




The Word set aside such things in preparation for DESTRUCTION but that time has not yet come. Sin indwelling and EVIL present with all is the GENERATION who has not yet passed who will see ALL THESE THINGS come to pass.


Is eating the pork evil?



One will be taken (the Child of God) and one will be left (THE MAN OF SIN THAT IS PRESENT WITH ALL.)

It is upon this LATTER that WRATH will fall. I try not to get too close eh?


I see your point. But can it be that Jesus meant it literally and not spiritually?




The Law tells me otherwise. WE cannot DENY The Law and say we STAND with The Word. It cannot be done. The Law was made to CLEARLY REVEAL that such things are indeed WITH US all in various ways. To take away THE LIGHT that is IN THE LAW is not good nor is it wise.


I'm not denying the Law. What Law we are talking about anyway? God's Law? Levitical Law? Why do we not kill homos even today? Because of the spiritual meaning of the Law, or what?

beanieboy
May 5th, 2004, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by AtheistsSuck

No repentance = hell train. Sin is sin.

Number of posts devoted to non-repentant heterosexuals?
Hmm.

Haven't seen any.
Just a lot of Yahtzee.

Aimiel
May 5th, 2004, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by smaller

I see you ETERNALLY DAMNING others to TORTURE. To me there is not even a REMOTE COMPARISON to YOUR sin and beanieboys. YOURS is much much worse. One cannot HATE anymore than this. You don't see the self-righteous condemnation in that statement?
You damnation dudes have not figured this out yet because you are SO STEEPED INTO THIS DARKNESS. It has SEARED your consciousness past recognition OF LOVE to others.Quite the contrary, I used to hate people, and especially those that I thought of as 'worse' than me, as you have expressed. I thank God for delivering me from this, and many other sins. I used to not even be half as civil as you are (tongue firmly planted in cheek while typing), if you want to know the truth. I have repented of hatred, and will continue to do so. What about you?
If you consider yourself ADOPTED then it is THE FATHER who adopts THE SON, not the other way around. Jesus told US that God was THE FATHER of US ALL.He is, but only by creation (our ancestors, Grandpa Adam and Grandma Eve) and / or by adoption, to wit the redemption of our souls by faith in the shed blood of Jesus. If we don't believe in Jesus we don't have eternal life.
All things in heaven and earth are clear enough for me AIMiel.I'm glad that you know all you want to know. I am always (forever and ever) going to be learning.
I am not willing to LIMIT The Blood of Jesus.You do, you believe that He can only apply it to everyone, simply because you have 'reasoned' it to be so. Haven't you ever read where The Lord said, "Come, let US reason TOGETHER?" He wants to explain The Truth to you, but if you keep your mind closed like a big rusty bear trap, He's not going to pry it open. He's A Perfect Gentleman, and won't force anything on anyone; at least not until His Patience wears out. He has said that He won't always strive with men. One day He will say, "That's enough," and the trumpet shall sound, believers will be taken out of the way and the judgement will begin to fall.

Nineveh
May 5th, 2004, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by beanieboy

Righteousness? I have yet to see it, you smug, arrogant jerk.

I may be an arrogant jerk, but I am an arrogant jerk who wants to see you live a long healthy life.


The way you are now, I want to live forever without you. That is why I reject your bloodthirsty God. Because of you. I don't want to spend eternity with people that act like they are holier than thou, then when called on it, claim that it is Jesus within them. I don't want to spend eternity that say hate is love, and love is hate. I don't want to spend eternity with people that want to kill off all gay people. If you represent God, I want nothing to do with him. How many times do I need to say this? It's you that I am rejecting.

You can explain that to God while I'm playing chess with Gandhi.

I'm sorry beanieboy, your blood is on your own head where I am concerned. I loved you enough to tell you what God has to say about you. There is no chess in hell.


Why is it that anyone who is judgemental gets agree at being judged themself?

You are a hypocrite.

I never claimed to have given up the practice, you did. I'm not prone to being merely judgemental, judging by my own authority. I didn't make up the fact God loaths homosexuality, I'm merely relaying the message to you.


I welcome you to judge me as you see fit. It doesn't effect me. You aren't God.

No, I'm not God, nor did I ever claim to be. He still loaths homosexuality, though.


Judging rightly? I imagine you being Simon, and when asked who loves his master more, the one forgiven a small debt, or the one forgiven a large debt, that you would argue, "Yeah, but she's a whore!"

As you pointed out, I'm not God, I can't forgive you for your homosexuality, nor can I change your heart, but Jesus can. If he can change my life, He can change yours, too.


You are a fool.
I make this judgement from reading many, many of your posts, and make a decision based on all that I have seen.
I think that you are blind.

As you have already stated, the difference between my word view and yours is totally opposite. I do not see love as hate and hate as love, Jesus fixed me, and He can do the same for you.

Nineveh
May 5th, 2004, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by smaller
This really is so much fun...;)

Watching you keep the Gospel from beanieboy is fun? Watching you promote his perversity by battling on the side of an abomination is fun? Watching you hate this person to the point you would keep him in his sin is fun? I tend to believe I have seen the depths of true hatred for the first time on TOL in your post.

servent101 and Chileice feel the same as you smaller. It's much better to continue in sin so that grace might abound, never mind it may very well cost beanieboy his health and his life. Thanks, but I'd rather follow Paul's lead.

Cyrus of Persia
May 5th, 2004, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by Nineveh

Watching you keep the Gospel from beanieboy is fun? Watching you promote his perversity by battling on the side of an abomination is fun? Watching you hate this person to the point you would keep him in his sin is fun? I tend to believe I have seen the depths of true hatred for the first time on TOL in your post.


I think that Beanieboy is well home at Gospel message, so you dont need to worry about that. Also you dont need to worry that God is not taking care of him and of his life. Your human talk can add nothing to it.

So stop worrying and ask God to take care Beanieboy and.... yourself :)

Nineveh
May 5th, 2004, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

I think that Beanieboy is well home at Gospel message, so you dont need to worry about that. Also you dont need to worry that God is not taking care of him and of his life. Your human talk can add nothing to it.

So stop worrying and ask God to take care Beanieboy and.... yourself :)

I don't think beanieboy has the first clue that he is even sinning, so I'm not sure where you get the idea he understands what the Gospel is about.

Cyrus of Persia
May 5th, 2004, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by Nineveh

I don't think beanieboy has the first clue that he is even sinning, so I'm not sure where you get the idea he understands what the Gospel is about.

You havent read enough his posts, i see.

He has said that he was devout Christian once. He is born again, speaks in tongues, and i'm pretty sure he knows about Gospel, and different ideas what different Christians have toward homosexuality.

If you want to keep bashing him because of the habit, you have freedom of speech. But i dont think it profits either you, or Beanieboy.

smaller
May 5th, 2004, 06:02 PM
Greetins Nin


Watching you keep the Gospel from beanieboy is fun?

No, poking holes in your doctrines of devils is though.


Watching you promote his perversity by battling on the side of an abomination is fun?

Oh? Have I applauded ANY SIN including YOURS, that is IF YOU HAVE ANY eh? tap tap tap.....


Watching you hate this person to the point you would keep him in his sin is fun?

Oh? Am I the one CONDEMNING BEANIEboy to ETERNAL TORTURE? You really are TOO funny.


I tend to believe I have seen the depths of true hatred for the first time on TOL in your post.

My only hatred is to ETERNAL HATRED, but then that is the VERY THING that walks around IN YOU. go figure.


servent101 and Chileice feel the same as you smaller.

I don't think Cheileice did before but LOVE will get to everyone sooner or later eh?


It's much better to continue in sin so that grace might abound, never mind it may very well cost beanieboy his health and his life.

Ah, I am still awaiting for your CONFESSION OF SINLESSNESS.

You can't quite bring yourself to THAT LIE though can you NIN???


Thanks, but I'd rather follow Paul's lead.

I don't find Paul anywhere saying to PROCLAIM YOUR SINLESSNESS eh? He did find THE BETTER WAY though did he not? Do you know THE WAY Nin???

enjoy!

smaller

Nineveh
May 5th, 2004, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by smaller

No, poking holes in your doctrines of devils is though.

If you know homosexuality is something God loaths, then you must know it must be an act that is God-less. It appears it is you who would promote the docrine of homosexuality, a doctrine of devils.

Pritykity
May 5th, 2004, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by smaller [/b

Oh? Have I applauded ANY SIN including YOURS, that is IF YOU HAVE ANY eh? tap tap tap.....


Oh? Am I the one CONDEMNING BEANIEboy to ETERNAL TORTURE? You really are TOO funny.


My only hatred is to ETERNAL HATRED, but then that is the VERY THING that walks around IN YOU. go figure.

[b]Ah, I am still awaiting for your CONFESSION OF SINLESSNESS.

You can't quite bring yourself to THAT LIE though can you NIN???


I don't find Paul anywhere saying to PROCLAIM YOUR SINLESSNESS eh? He did find THE BETTER WAY though did he not? Do you know THE WAY Nin???

enjoy!

smaller

Smaller, I'm just wondering if there is a point to you capitalizing certain words sporatically throughout your sentences. If you're trying to emphasize them, why not just use italics. I, personally, find over-capitalization quite annoying.

smaller
May 5th, 2004, 07:05 PM
Greetings CoP


Where did i said anything about "eternal torture"? I just said what Rom 6:23 says: everyone has sinned and the wage of sin is DEATH. But it's God's gift that by salvation everyone can escape from death.

Mankind as God's Sons and Daughters were NEVER slated for death. It is not possible, nor are we "worthy" of death. Sin in us is, but IT is not the SAME AS us.

quote from smaller
God's Laws on these matters HAS NOT CHANGED nor WILL IT. Heaven and earth will pass away before ONE JOT OR TITTLE OF THE LAW WILL PASS AWAY. (Jesus)

The Law is NOT SUBJECT to change.


OMG!

How should i explain it to you then? You can ignore it thousands of times but God CLEARLY looks at pure and unpure animals DIFFERENTLY in NT than it was in OT Law. I cannot help it, but i read it plainly. And it shows me that something changed somewhere.

And again there is A SIN application to THE LAW because it is WRITTEN to the LAWLESS that dwell within us AND there is a SPIRITUAL APPLICATION that is FOR US.

SIN IS OF THE DEVIL. The LAW was always AGAINST THE LAWLESS and THEY will NEVER obey it.

quote from smaller:
There is an application of the law that is AGAINST SIN IN THE FLESH and there is a SPIRITUAL APPLICATION in every law as well. They BOTH stand. It is US as BELIEVERS who have failed to DISCERN what The Law says to whom.


I'm either uncapable to discern between the spiritual application and literal application of the Law, or you just try to imply your own interpretations to the Bible that MAY BE right, but may be not.

Ah, there is no doubt that homosexuality is a violation of the law and indicates SIN indwelling the flesh, but you know, WELCOME TO THE HUMAN RACE eh?


Maybe you help me with some simple examples to see the difference between those two?

The above description should be sufficient to convey what I see. There is certainly no harm to any in this position.

quote from smaller
The Law is also written AGAINST those invisible powers that we WAR against. I do not see this as the SAME AS mankind.


I dont see it anywhere in the Bible. Can you help me to see?

I have written extensively on SIN not being the SAME AS people. You might also see that THE LAW is written to the lawless (that which is in us.) I also believe this is shown in many ways throughout the the text in pairs. Adam and Eve (the inner man deceived), Cain and Abel, Jacob and Esau, Ephraim and Manasseh, etc. etc. It is quite overwhelming if you get ahold of it and fascinating as well.

So seeing in this understanding I will see EVERY person with the presence of EVIL with them and sin indwelling YET a CHILD OF GOD also resides there. This is how God has formed us.

Paul wrote about this quite well in 1 Cor. 15 where he said we are planted in corruption, weakness, and humility. I see sin indwelling and evil present with us as the GROUND OF DARKNESS that we are planted into in this earth. WE are the PLANTS, they are the DUNG upon our ROOTS to make us GROW UP to Him.

quote from smaller:
I think we can see that GOD EVEN COMMANDED to TAKE SLAVES. Do you think He was talking about MANkind? Those things that are written of to ISRAEL of THE FLESH were a SPIRITUAL EXAMPLE that is written for us upon whom has arrived the END OF THE AGE.



Aha, now i see it again. You are implying spiritual interpretation to literal texts. It can be so, but it can also lead to false interpretations. In this case it doesnt help us much, because Jews followed the literal rule about slavery, so did they with homosexualism and eating meat.

Well you brought up the SPLIT HOOF. Why was THAT MEAT clean? Do you see BOTH HALVES of the HOOF??? Or animals that chew the cud? There is a reason these are clean in the "spiritual sense."

As far as sin indwelling the flesh actually OBEYING THE LAW IN THE FLESH, it AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. The MORE you apply the LAW to SIN the MORE SINFUL IT GETS. This is also a PRINCIPAL.

That is why the LAW was given. To MAKE SIN aroused until it becomes UTTERLY SINFUL. Do you see this in our day? Of course you do. It is God's Preparation for THEIR JUDGMENT. The RAISING of the MYSTERY BABYLON just prior to THE END of this age.


I admit that Paul is using too many times allegory for OT, but i also see him sometimes losing the actual meaning due of his interpretation. For example 1 Cor 9:9.

Paul admonishes us who SEE to not become TRAPPED into NOT LOVING and not to be a BODY WHO IS USED BY SIN. I, like my Father, do not desire to be BOUND, but to be UNBOUND. To SIN in the flesh is to BE BOUND without a doubt. Love leads us away from those things. Trying to GAIN by the flesh following The Law will STIR UP sin and EMPOWER it. I love the correlations Paul gave on the law, even in 1 Cor. 9:9. Jesus did the SAME THING with the law. He said IF YOU THINK THAT DIVORCE IS BAD how about THINKING OF ADULTERY being ADULTERY! Now who puts the THOUGHTS OF ADULTERY into a man's head???

Again The Law is USED to REVEAL their presence within us and is WRITTEN against THEM.

quote from smaller
The Word set aside such things in preparation for DESTRUCTION but that time has not yet come. Sin indwelling and EVIL present with all is the GENERATION who has not yet passed who will see ALL THESE THINGS come to pass.


Is eating the pork evil?

Any breaking of the law is sin. I would add though that LOVING YOUR NEIGHBOR as YOURSELF IS A FULFILLMENT OF THE ENTIRE LAW AND PROPHETS IN US, so do you want to look at the FULFILLMENT of it? Sin indewelling me LOVES pork. What can I do about it? If I try under THE LAW to not eat pork I will only DESIRE it and eat it more. So it is with ALL the sin in us all. This will NOT CHANGE. Sin in us ALL is continually judged and condemned under the law, but in Love we fulfill it. What a dilema eh? The classic BODY OF DEATH cry from Paul.

All these people crying out to beanieboy to GIVE UP homosexuality under the law will only compel him the more. This is his particular enTRAPment with SIN. I do not desire to see him pushed even futher into the mire and will not condemn HIM as a person under the law, but will APPLY LOVE instead. This is how I would prefer to be treated as well.

quote from smaller:
One will be taken (the Child of God) and one will be left (THE MAN OF SIN THAT IS PRESENT WITH ALL.)

It is upon this LATTER that WRATH will fall. I try not to get too close eh?

quote from smaller
The Law tells me otherwise. WE cannot DENY The Law and say we STAND with The Word. It cannot be done. The Law was made to CLEARLY REVEAL that such things [as sin indwelling and evil present]are indeed WITH US all in various ways. To take away THE LIGHT that is IN THE LAW is not good nor is it wise.


I'm not denying the Law. What Law we are talking about anyway? God's Law? Levitical Law? Why do we not kill homos even today? Because of the spiritual meaning of the Law, or what?

All Law is written AGAINST lawlessness. It is THE SIN indwelling and EVIL PRESENT that is condemned. This is simply NOT the same as the person, neither must I condone SINS acts, rather EXPECT them to amplify under The Law.

This is what God has meant to happen. Why would I want to stop it?

It is GOD HIMSELF who controls the governments of mankind. It is He who will move to accomplish His Objectives. I desire only to love and to be unbound. That will happen soon enough for us all.

When you read that the SAINTS will JUDGE THE WORLD, what our role will be is TO JUDGE THE SIN that LIVED IN US ALL. This is the role of ALL His People and ALL are His People.

The entire record of humanity will be quite a condemnation against THESE THINGS and in this way NO LIFE will have been a waste.

enjoy!

smaller

smaller
May 5th, 2004, 07:06 PM
Read the BOLD part of my post to you NIN. Then come and tell me HOW PERFECT YOU ARE and how NEARLY EVERYONE ELSE is not.

lol

firechyld
May 5th, 2004, 07:19 PM
Poly, I'm going to give you the opportunity to prove that you aren't just an obnoxious bint.

I'm listening.

Has this "technique" of yours ever actually WORKED?

smaller
May 5th, 2004, 07:22 PM
Greetings AIMmeal

quote from smaller
I see you ETERNALLY DAMNING others to TORTURE. To me there is not even a REMOTE COMPARISON to YOUR sin and beanieboys. YOURS is much much worse. One cannot HATE anymore than this.


You don't see the self-righteous condemnation in that statement?

Ah, I certainly see you APPLAUDING YOURSELF from God's Judgment Seat. I hope He tosses you OUT OF IT soon.

quote from smaller:
You damnation dudes have not figured this out yet because you are SO STEEPED INTO THIS DARKNESS. It has SEARED your consciousness past recognition OF LOVE to others.


Quite the contrary, I used to hate people, and especially those that I thought of as 'worse' than me, as you have expressed. I thank God for delivering me from this, and many other sins. I used to not even be half as civil as you are (tongue firmly planted in cheek while typing), if you want to know the truth. I have repented of hatred, and will continue to do so. What about you?

You REPENTED of hatred WHILE CONDEMNING OTHERS TO BE TORTURED IN FIRE...

Tell it to The Judge AIMmeal. I certainly ain't buying that baloney.

quote from smaller:
If you consider yourself ADOPTED then it is THE FATHER who adopts THE SON, not the other way around. Jesus told US that God was THE FATHER of US ALL.


He is, but only by creation (our ancestors, Grandpa Adam and Grandma Eve) and / or by adoption, to wit the redemption of our souls by faith in the shed blood of Jesus. If we don't believe in Jesus we don't have eternal life.

And God BURNS ALL HIS OTHER CHILDREN IN FIRE. What is this God? Some kind of CHILD MOLESTER?

quote from smaller:
All things in heaven and earth are clear enough for me AIMiel.


I'm glad that you know all you want to know. I am always (forever and ever) going to be learning.

I see you have learned to LIMIT THE CROSS and SELECT via your LIST who's SINS ARE LAID ASIDE and who's are NOT eh?

quote from smaller:
I am not willing to LIMIT The Blood of Jesus.


You do, you believe that He can only apply it to everyone, simply because you have 'reasoned' it to be so.

I like how you COMPLETELY IGNORE the text I just provided saying you are a liar. ALL THINGS in HEAVEN AND EARTH were RECONCILED BY JESUS at the cross. You say SOME THINGS. So what? You are merely a GOD RESISTOR VOICE. He says ALL. You say SOME. Next.


Haven't you ever read where The Lord said, "Come, let US reason TOGETHER?"

Yeah, THOUGH YOUR SINS BE AS SCARLET YOU WILL BE WHITE AS SNOW, but NOT YOUR NEIGHBORS SINS. Is this how God reasons with you???


He wants to explain The Truth to you, but if you keep your mind closed like a big rusty bear trap, He's not going to pry it open.

I only see you BLOCKING UP THE GATES OF HEAVEN like ALL PHARISEES do Aimiel.


He's A Perfect Gentleman, and won't force anything on anyone; at least not until His Patience wears out.

Well, let's see. His MERCY ENDURES FOREVER or UNTIL AIMIEL says BURN EM ALL GOD! LOL


He has said that He won't always strive with men.

here is the FULL TEXT from Isaiah 57. Do you believe it???

"For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made. For the iniquity of his covetousness was I wroth, and smote him: I hid me, and was wroth, and he went on frowardly in the way of his heart. I have seen his ways, and will heal him: I will lead him also, and restore comforts unto him and to his mourners. 19 I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to him that is far off, and to him that is near, saith the Lord; and I will heal him."

NO, you don't believe this AT ALL. You say CALL DOWN FIRE UPON THEM LORD! TORTURE THEM ALL LORD!


One day He will say, "That's enough," and the trumpet shall sound, believers will be taken out of the way and the judgement will begin to fall.

And you will count yourself among the LUCKY and the majority of MANKIND as the TORTURED.

What do I care if you are BLINDed to God's Love. God will judge this IN YOU as well. He has chosen to LET DAMNATION LIVE IN YOU for JUDGMENT. You give WORD EXERCISE to my fingers and my heart.

Thank you.

enjoy!

smaller

LightSon
May 5th, 2004, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by firechyld

... I'm going to give you the opportunity to prove that you aren't just an obnoxious bint.
...

I had to lookup "bint". It sure didn't sound like a compliment. :(

Bint appears to be an Aussie word, right? It means "woman or girl " and purports to be offensive, but I can't readily see the negative connotation. Any subtleties in the meaning that you could share? If I use the word, I need to know what I am implying.

firechyld
May 5th, 2004, 07:34 PM
Hrmmm. It tends to be used to mean "silly girl" or "woman who is acting in a ridiculous fashion". I'm not sure of the actual origins of the word.

Are you familiar with "biddy"? I think they have the same connotations.

Cyrus of Persia
May 6th, 2004, 05:36 AM
Originally posted by smaller

Mankind as God's Sons and Daughters were NEVER slated for death. It is not possible, nor are we "worthy" of death. Sin in us is, but IT is not the SAME AS us.


You are implying spiritual meaning to it, probably. I would like to take the Bible literally here. And there are the passages that show that who is sinning is worthy of death:

For example: Rom 1:32; 5:12, 17-18; 6:23. I understand that you want to explain away the concept of eternal torture, but you do it by implying spiritual meaning to those passages, that can be taken also literally and not falsely if done so. You divide person and sin. The bible sees literally person quilty of sin. Those are not divided. If i sin, it makes me dirty. The dirt and me and not separated, but we belong together.



And again there is A SIN application to THE LAW because it is WRITTEN to the LAWLESS that dwell within us AND there is a SPIRITUAL APPLICATION that is FOR US.


Nah, you again try to explain spiritually what can be taken literally. We are lawless if we sin against law, not that "lawless that dwell WITHIN us".



SIN IS OF THE DEVIL. The LAW was always AGAINST THE LAWLESS and THEY will NEVER obey it.


Nor can they. I take lawless as people, not the principle what lives within us. Christ dealt with the problem, and as WE were uncapable to obey to Law to full extent, Christ did it for US and payed the prize. The Law was fulfilled in HIM.




Ah, there is no doubt that homosexuality is a violation of the law

What Law? If you refer to Mosaic Law, then yes. But again, you assume it spiritually, while i take it more literally.




Any breaking of the law is sin.


Aha. But WHY does Jesus calls every meat clean (even pork), so does the author of Acts, and Paul? Why do they not call it sin, nor breaking the Law anymore?




All Law is written AGAINST lawlessness.


You didnt answered the question. What Law are you referring to? Mosaic Law? Any other besides it? The world is full of laws, so be more specific. There is no such thing as "all law".




It is THE SIN indwelling and EVIL PRESENT that is condemned. This is simply NOT the same as the person, neither must I condone SINS acts, rather EXPECT them to amplify under The Law.


Aha. So i beat my wife in anger and should not feel quilty after that, because it was sin within me what did that? Nah, PEOPLE (everyone of us) is quilty of sin according to the Bible, and will be judged. But Christ take our judgement upon Himself when dying for our sins. This is the thing that saves our butts.

I cannot agree with your spiritual interpretation of the topic. I find more reasons why to take the Bible literally in those things.

smaller
May 6th, 2004, 07:23 AM
Greetings CoP


You are implying spiritual meaning to it, probably. I would like to take the Bible literally here. And there are the passages that show that who is sinning is worthy of death:

You cannot sin. Sin indwelling and evil present with your flesh sins.


For example: Rom 1:32; 5:12, 17-18; 6:23. I understand that you want to explain away the concept of eternal torture,

I do not deny eternal torture NOR do I explain it away. It was always meant for the devil and his messengers.


but you do it by implying spiritual meaning to those passages,

The passages are written AGAINST sin indwelling and evil present. The spiritual meaning is not against mankind.


that can be taken also literally and not falsely if done so. You divide person and sin.

Bravo. I think you are at least getting it.


The bible sees literally person quilty of sin. Those are not divided.

This is only how you are allowed to see it. Jesus saw these things dwelling in people and spoke to them continually and cast them out. He ALWAYS separated SIN from PEOPLE. That is why ALL SINS including blasphemy will NOT be held against people and it was JESUS who said so. What more do you want?


If i sin, it makes me dirty. The dirt and me and not separated, but we belong together.

Listen, I'm not going to listen to your grovel. The Truth is written on this matter and your imaginations where you are led astray by SIN INDWELLING and EVIL PRESENT is OF THE DEVIL. Your "thoughts" are subject to being LED ASTRAY and manipulated by THESE THINGS.

It is THE LAW that both reveals the presence of these things and STIRS THEM UP.

quote from smaller
And again there is A SIN application to THE LAW because it is WRITTEN to the LAWLESS that dwell within us AND there is a SPIRITUAL APPLICATION that is FOR US.


Nah, you again try to explain spiritually what can be taken literally. We are lawless if we sin against law, not that "lawless that dwell WITHIN us".

And you are trying to JUSTIFY HOMOSEXUALITY. Sorry, this cannot be done using God's Word. Sorry.


Nor can they. (obey the law) I take lawless as people, not the principle what lives within us. Christ dealt with the problem, and as WE were uncapable to obey to Law to full extent, Christ did it for US and payed the prize. The Law was fulfilled in HIM.

If that were the case The Law is passed BUT that is not what Jesus said either nor did Paul nor did John. The Law Stands and it CAN AND IS fulfilled IN US BY US.

I understand that this little guantlet is difficult to run but The Word is consistent in these matters. It is people who are subject to the BLINDNESS to The Word and made to not understand.

quote from smaller
Ah, there is no doubt that homosexuality is a violation of the law


What Law? If you refer to Mosaic Law, then yes. But again, you assume it spiritually, while i take it more literally.

I am not going to take the time to cite you the MULTIPLE TEXTS that show homosexuality A SIN. If you have not got that far on the subject you are over your head anyway.

quote from smaller
Any breaking of the law is sin.


Aha. But WHY does Jesus calls every meat clean (even pork), so does the author of Acts, and Paul? Why do they not call it sin, nor breaking the Law anymore? Breaking of The Law is NEVER justified by any of the writers.

When a person eats pork sin indwelling them SINs in the flesh. When a man thinks of having another mans woman HE SINS IN THE FLESH.

quote from smaller
All Law is written AGAINST lawlessness.


You didnt answered the question. What Law are you referring to? Mosaic Law? Any other besides it? The world is full of laws, so be more specific. There is no such thing as "all law".

I understand The Law is a little overwhelming as a topic.

quote from smaller
It is THE SIN indwelling and EVIL PRESENT that is condemned. This is simply NOT the same as the person, neither must I condone SINS acts, rather EXPECT them to amplify under The Law.


Aha. So i beat my wife in anger and should not feel quilty after that, because it was sin within me what did that? Nah,

Did I say SIN WAS EXCUSED or JUSTIFIED. Never.

People who's flesh has sinned will pay the price in the flesh. They will all ASSUREDLY DIE because of these violations present with us ALL. This is the ULTIMATE PRICE that MANkind will pay.


PEOPLE (everyone of us) is quilty of sin according to the Bible, and will be judged. But Christ take our judgement upon Himself when dying for our sins. This is the thing that saves our butts.

When a person dies they are separated from their sins. (Romans 6:7)

Jesus Christ NEVER gave SIN any OK nor did He LET SIN OFF THE HOOK. He CONDEMNED SIN IN SINFUL FLESH. Romans 8:3


I cannot agree with your spiritual interpretation of the topic. I find more reasons why to take the Bible literally in those things.

I write what I see. Whether you see it is irrelevant. Truth Leads.

ALL SIN IN THE FLESH IS CONDEMNED yet GOD LOVES ALL OF MANKIND. It is GOD Himself who has BOUND US to DISOBEDIENCE so that ALL will receive MERCY. Romans 11:32

enjoy!

smaller

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 07:30 AM
Originally posted by smaller

Read the BOLD part of my post to you NIN. Then come and tell me HOW PERFECT YOU ARE and how NEARLY EVERYONE ELSE is not.

lol

How Godly is homosexuality? How healthy is it? Why do you promote it?

smaller
May 6th, 2004, 07:41 AM
Hello. Is english your first language???

DO YOU HAVE SIN????

Why do you AVOID this simple question???? Why must this be posted 15 times for you to DODGE???

I really dislike people who do not ENGAGE but AVOID. This shows THE DECEPTION you walk in.

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 07:50 AM
Hello, do you understand english? Able to follow along with a simple point? Why do you want to see beanieboy continue in a deathstyle you know God hates and may cost him his health and life? This is the THIRD TIME I've asked, so quit whining, you are getting as you give.

smaller
May 6th, 2004, 07:58 AM
Can you find a SINGLE PLACE where I have CONDONED HOMOSEXUALITY? Why do you attempt to accuse me of such?

Can you find a SINGLE PLACE where you have answered a SIMPLE QUESTION?

Are you SINLESS little Ms. Condemnation of others???

Cyrus of Persia
May 6th, 2004, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by smaller

You cannot sin. Sin indwelling and evil present with your flesh sins.


Rom 3:23: "since ALL HAVE sinned and fall short of the glory of God". It talks about HUMANS who are sinning, not about the sin within us that is sinning.




I do not deny eternal torture NOR do I explain it away. It was always meant for the devil and his messengers.


Ok.




The passages are written AGAINST sin indwelling and evil present. The spiritual meaning is not against mankind.


The literal is.



Bravo. I think you are at least getting it.


But it doesnt mean that i agree with that.



This is only how you are allowed to see it. Jesus saw these things dwelling in people and spoke to them continually and cast them out. He ALWAYS separated SIN from PEOPLE. That is why ALL SINS including blasphemy will NOT be held against people and it was JESUS who said so. What more do you want?


When Jesus said "go and sin no more", He was not talking with Sin indwelling in person, but with person himself.



Listen, I'm not going to listen to your grovel. The Truth is written on this matter and your imaginations where you are led astray by SIN INDWELLING and EVIL PRESENT is OF THE DEVIL. Your "thoughts" are subject to being LED ASTRAY and manipulated by THESE THINGS.


And you think that your spiritual interpretation of the topic is not the fruit of your own thoughts?



And you are trying to JUSTIFY HOMOSEXUALITY. Sorry, this cannot be done using God's Word. Sorry.


Not with the Bible, yes. But as we see changes in NT understanding about The Law (of course if we are able to see them), then we are made to quess: did the changes ended with closed NT canon, or is God speaking us in new way even today?




If that were the case The Law is passed BUT that is not what Jesus said either nor did Paul nor did John. The Law Stands and it CAN AND IS fulfilled IN US BY US.


Jesus clarified the Law. Paul said: "For Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified" (Rom 10:4) and "So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian" (Gal 3:24-25).




I am not going to take the time to cite you the MULTIPLE TEXTS that show homosexuality A SIN. If you have not got that far on the subject you are over your head anyway.


Have i said ANYWHERE that homosexuality was not sin in biblical times?

But i did NOT asked about homosexuality here. I asked to what LAW are you referring all the time. Why dont you answer to it finally?

And: "I understand The Law is a little overwhelming as a topic" is not the answer, because it could happen that we are talking about different laws unless you explain yourself.



When a person eats pork sin indwelling them SINs in the flesh.

Are you blind? Can't you see that eating pork is not SIN in NT. How do you explain THAT?



Did I say SIN WAS EXCUSED or JUSTIFIED. Never.

People who's flesh has sinned will pay the price in the flesh. They will all ASSUREDLY DIE because of these violations present with us ALL. This is the ULTIMATE PRICE that MANkind will pay.


When i talk that death is the penalty of sin, i talk about the same thing, and still you opposed to this idea and said that sin within us is paying the penalty. It's all about language, while the essence seems to be same.



When a person dies they are separated from their sins. (Romans 6:7)


If you read this verse in context you see that it is not talking about our physical death, but our death with Christ. As He died in cross, so did we. As He was rised from the dead, so were we. We are identified with His death and resurrection.




I write what I see. Whether you see it is irrelevant. Truth Leads.


And you say that you are one of those absolutists, who think that they own the truth and those who oppose their ideas are wrong? IF so, then you arent better than any fundy and it's useless to waste our time on this matter, because you are so right in your own eyes.



ALL SIN IN THE FLESH IS CONDEMNED yet GOD LOVES ALL OF MANKIND. It is GOD Himself who has BOUND US to DISOBEDIENCE so that ALL will receive MERCY. Romans 11:32


So are condemned ALL humans, because ALL have sinned, but God loves us even if we are sinners. That's why He payed the prize in the Cross so we all might recieve mercy.

beanieboy
May 6th, 2004, 08:04 AM
Originally posted by Nineveh

I may be an arrogant jerk, but I am an arrogant jerk who wants to see you live a long healthy life.


Don't you want the government to execute me after a speedy trial?
Even if I said, "Ok, suddenly I'm attracted to women", according to you, I should still be executed, because I have committed some archaic sin in Leviticus.
So, now you are an unrepentant liar as well.

And you call for no one to be executed for working on the Sabbath (which is Saturday, by the way.)
So, you don't really even believe in the Bible.
Just parts.

beanieboy
May 6th, 2004, 08:09 AM
Originally posted by Nineveh

Hello, do you understand english? Able to follow along with a simple point? Why do you want to see beanieboy continue in a deathstyle you know God hates and may cost him his health and life? This is the THIRD TIME I've asked, so quit whining, you are getting as you give.

Nineveh, you see me as first needing to be heterosexual, and THEN being christian.

In fact, if I never become christian, that's ok, because being heterosexual is much, much more important.

"Yeah, God. I denied Jesus - But LOOK! I'm a card carrying hetero!"

"Oooooooh! That's a horse of a different color. Come on in!"

You are an ignorant boob that wouldn't know God if he asked you for change.

(Wow, Poly. This approach is making sooooo many people open up and listen. Golly.)

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 08:12 AM
Originally posted by smaller

Can you find a SINGLE PLACE where I have CONDONED HOMOSEXUALITY? Why do you attempt to accuse me of such?

You are right now, not once have you bothered to tell beanieboy what God really thinks of his life.


Are you SINLESS little Ms. Condemnation of others???

Thank God I met the Law before I met you, or else I would still be in my sin, unsaved, and a stranger to Christ. I have been humbled, washed and forgiven. You?

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

Nineveh, you see me as first needing to be heterosexual, and THEN being christian.

No, first you need to understand you are in violation of God's Law, because of that you deserve death. If you don't like the fact the God looks at you that way, repent, and turn to Christ. He can help you deal with the rest.


In fact, if I never become christian,

There is still hope, you are still alive.

beanieboy
May 6th, 2004, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by Nineveh
You are right now, not once have you bothered to tell beanieboy what Gos really thinks of his life.


Nineveh, you blind guide.

I got it. You think God hates me and pukes at my life.
You want me to leave some imagined "lifestyle", and then kill me.

I got it. I think you are a hate filled, unloving person that is probably more in need of God than I am.

I will pray for your hardened heart, and ask God to have mercy on your soul.

beanieboy
May 6th, 2004, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by Nineveh
There is still hope, you are still alive.
Do you or do you not want the death of all homosexuals?

You are a vile liar.

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

Do you or do you not want the death of all homosexuals?

You are a vile liar.

I would support recrimalizing homosexuality, yes. It's a crime. It was for a very long time.

Tell me beanieboy, if it were a crime punishable by death, would you be doing it? Why do you see the governement putting a limit on homosexuality as such an evil thing, but your own lifestyle costs hundreds of thousands of lives, but that's ok?

*Thanks for pointing out I mispelled God :)

Cyrus of Persia
May 6th, 2004, 08:23 AM
I'm dissapointed that Nin is not replying to some interesting questions Beanieboy asked. Like how about those who violate Sabbath? I would appreciate if Nin would reply to it.

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 08:25 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

I got it. You think God hates me and pukes at my life.

God loaths you.


I got it. I think you are a hate filled, unloving person that is probably more in need of God than I am.

Ok, so I'm a hate filled unloving person, but I'm a hate filled unloving person that wants to see you saved from the deathstyle you are in, and saved for eternity.


I will pray for your hardened heart, and ask God to have mercy on your soul.

Pagan gods don't like me either :)

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 08:25 AM
Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

I'm dissapointed that Nin is not replying to some interesting questions Beanieboy asked. Like how about those who violate Sabbath? I would appreciate if Nin would reply to it.

Make a thread on it.

Poly
May 6th, 2004, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

It's rather interesting that I don't start threads about homosexuality. christians do. And then when I respond, I am attacked.
It's a trap. It's dishonest, really. It's on countless threads, and from what I see on TOL, should make up at least 30% of the Bible.

And you are surprised that I would respond?
Who said anybody was surprised that you responded? And you are not attacked because you respond it's what you have to say that is attacked. You know, stuff like, "I'm a good enough person for God to love me on that alone. I don't need His Son or the Sacrifice He made." Or when you use the bible to justify what you have to say and yet you, yourself, don't believe in it. Or how about when you're thinking that God is perfectly fine with homosexuals though He calls them an abomination. Yes, blatent absurdities like that should be addressed.


Originally posted by beanieboy

But why stop by condemning homosexuals? Why not go threaten people going to temple? They don't acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God, the unrepentant sinners! Are people who are Muslim? Scream in their face. Very effective. And hindis? Tell them they are going to hell, and then add a couple of "well, y'are"s to it. Very effective. Stand outside of bars, and yell, "Drunkards! Unrepentant drunkards!" I'm sure it will make you feel superior.

Where to you get the idea the only homos should be addressed? ALL who have not accepted Christ, should be addressed. You should have spent enough time on TOL by now to see that. And there are different means by which somebody should be addressed. If one is an unbeliever and yet has questions over salvation and is asking them sincerely, then he should be given sincere answers and encouraged to accept Christ so that he doesn't live an eternity apart from God. Then there are ones like you who have been given more than your fair share of sincere answers. I've seen people on here encouraging you to accept Christ and turn from your sin and they are nice about it. Does this work? Have you accepted Christ? No. You continue to mock Him, thinking that God can love you and you have no need of a sacrifice to cover that filth you live in. Those that mock God in the bible are themselves mocked as well.
I would NOT allow somebody to get away with saying lies about my Earthly father and drag his name through the dirt. I would confront them, bigtime! What makes you think I'm going to do anything less concerning a Father who loves me more than any Earthly father could and sacrificed His Son for me?


Originally posted by beanieboy
Yesterday, I decided to try out the Poly method.
Be a jerk to people, mock them, respond with "Wahhhh, Baby want her bottle" to see how effective it was.

The result?
Poly got angry. "Got" angry and defensive? beanie, I've been nothing but angry and defensive with you for your homosexuality and thinking you know better than God. And as far as "stopped responding", puhleeze! Run from you? Apparently you and smaller are arrogant enough to think that worlds revolve around you but they don't. I have children and a household that I must run and they come first. Even as we speak I should be studying up on a Geometry lesson I'm giving my boys today but what can I say, I love truthsmacking.


Originally posted by beanieboy

Poly wants me to be under her control.
She wants me to believe exactly as she does, and I don't, so she throws a temper tantrum like a 2 yr old, cause she can't have her way.
Are you really that dense or so desperate to make your case that you must lie? Poly wants you to quit thinking that you know better than God and realize how perverted and disgusting your lifestyle is and that a sacrifice is needed to cover that filth. Christ is that sacrifice but you reject Him and choose not to accept Him. How arrogant is that?


Originally posted by beanieboy

Doesn't the bible say, "for God so loved THE WORLD"?

According to Poly, whoever wrote this is a liar, and doesn't really care about unbelievers.
Why don't you read all of the verse? Yes, God so loved the world. He had pity on it because there was no way that "it" could save itself. It was a world deserving of death for it's wickedness, so what does he do? Read on!

"...that he sent His only begotton Son". You like this verse so much yet you seem to think nothing of this great act of sending "His only begotton Son". That's HUGE! Keep reading, "...that whosoever believes on Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life." So, beanie, do you "believe on Him"? No. So, since that is the condition here, you are not part of the whosoever so you perish. Is it because Poly says so? Nope, here it is in black and white. GOD says so.


Originally posted by Chileice
The sin that Jesus most attacked was self-righteousness. He came to save sinners, not those who were "healthy" in their own eyes. I feel bad for Poly because I believe she is being deceived
by people who are leading her astray.
Just who is self-righteous here, Chileice? Have you ever seen one post that I've submitted, saying that my righteousness comes from anything I have done to earn it? NO, and you never will! I have claimed nothing but Christ alone and His sacrifice for my righteousness. On the other hand, beanieboy claims that he does not need Christ. He thinks that he can be "good enough" for God to accept Him apart from Christ. I'd say that is pretty much a slap in the face to God, wouldn't you? I seem to recall the Pharisees thinking that they didn't need Christ as well and that their works would make them good enough. Yes, Christ came to attack self-righteousness. So what makes beanieboy exempt from this?

beanieboy
May 6th, 2004, 08:30 AM
I'm done.

I decided to participate in this thread, and show Poly how awful it is to take off the kid gloves, and start name calling, mocking with everything by saying, Wahhhhh, boohoooooo.

It accomplishes nothing, and if anything, makes the person even more resistent.

There is a story about a competition between the sun and the wind to see who could take a man's coat off. The wind blew hard, and the harder he blew, the tighter the man wrapped it around his body.
Exhausted, he told the sun to try, and the sun simply came out, and shown down on the man, who became hot, and took off his coat.

There is a moral to be learned there.

But I was eating in my favorite Vietnamese Pho restaurant, and saw this book about the Kaballah of The Lord's Prayer. I thought it odd, so I read it. And it said, "Holy be thy name" was about the chakra related to the mouth, about holiness, and purity.
Jesus said, when condemned for not washing his hands before eating, that dirt passes through the body, but that which comes out of the mouth, when it is vile, and evil, and spiteful, and harmful, dirties the soul - and does not pass through.

I feel that, while I may believe these things - that one may be a blind, arrogant boob, or a liar, or what have you, that the more I used these words, the more I was filled with rage, and the more resentment I had toward these people. At times, even when I knew it was wrong, I would think of the thread of "Man kills christian girl" and think "well, there's a step in the right direction." I was filled with anger. I was filled with anger at people, even wanting the deathsquad christians to be killed themselves. In short, it was a cancer that started turning me into one of them.

So, I'm done.

As for anyone else, you have free will.
Listen to my words, and take them or leave them.
It's your soul, and your decision.

It seems that this spiteful way of conversing not only is futile in helping others to turn to God, but also seems to destroy and muddy your own soul, and turn you away from God yourself.

Namaste.

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 08:35 AM
Since he heard the sound of the trumpet but did not take warning, his blood will be on his own head. If he had taken warning, he would have saved himself.

smaller
May 6th, 2004, 08:35 AM
Greetings CoP

Credit to you for persistence.


Rom 3:23: "since ALL HAVE sinned and fall short of the glory of God". It talks about HUMANS who are sinning, not about the sin within us that is sinning.

I understand that you cannot see the difference between MANkind and what MANkind is bound with. Romans 7:17, 20-21 is A GOOD LOOK. Paul NEVER called himself SIN but identified SIN INDWELLING as NOT HIM.

NOW when you can MAKE PAUL say HE WAS SIN INDWELLING then you will have your first point. It cannot be done.

Secondly IF YOU INSIST that you are THE SINNER then you should read 1 John 3:6 and then tell me IF YOU KNOW GOD. John should STOP YOU IN YOUR TRACKS.

You have your assignment Agent Cyrus.

quote from smaller
I do not deny eternal torture NOR do I explain it away. It was always meant for the devil and his messengers.

The passages are written AGAINST sin indwelling and evil present. The spiritual meaning is not against mankind.


The literal is.

Thank you. You are getting better at this.


But it doesnt mean that i agree with that.

It doesn't matter if it is the truth.

quote from smaller
This is only how you are allowed to see it. Jesus saw these things dwelling in people and spoke to them continually and cast them out. He ALWAYS separated SIN from PEOPLE. That is why ALL SINS including blasphemy will NOT be held against people and it was JESUS who said so. What more do you want?


When Jesus said "go and sin no more", He was not talking with Sin indwelling in person, but with person himself.

In the LIGHT of His Word we are allowed to SEE SIN and WAR with it. The Victory is gained IN HIS LOVE TO ALL first to ourselves, and then to others. There is no other reason to follow Jesus apart from His Love to ALL. His Love is ALL that has mattered. All that matters. All that ever will matter. God IS Love.

quote from smaller
Listen, I'm not going to listen to your grovel. The Truth is written on this matter and your imaginations where you are led astray by SIN INDWELLING and EVIL PRESENT is OF THE DEVIL. Your "thoughts" are subject to being LED ASTRAY and manipulated by THESE THINGS.


And you think that your spiritual interpretation of the topic is not the fruit of your own thoughts?

I have provided WORD positions only. This is not something I have magically come up with. It was this way from the beginning.

quote from smaller
And you are trying to JUSTIFY HOMOSEXUALITY. Sorry, this cannot be done using God's Word. Sorry.


Not with the Bible, yes.

Again BRAVO.

Now if you want to stray from The Word on this subject that is your prerogative. I have no interest in what MEN think.


But as we see changes in NT understanding about The Law (of course if we are able to see them), then we are made to quess: did the changes ended with closed NT canon, or is God speaking us in new way even today?

That is what think YOU SEE. Nowhere is BREAKING THE LAW EVER condoned in the N.T. ever. Better men then you have tried to make this case BECAUSE THEY CANNOT PERFORM UNDER IT so they DENY IT.

This is a FALSE WAY and a DEAD END.

quote from smaller
If that were the case The Law is passed BUT that is not what Jesus said either nor did Paul nor did John. The Law Stands and it CAN AND IS fulfilled IN US BY US.


Jesus clarified the Law. Paul said: "For Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified" (Rom 10:4) and "So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian" (Gal 3:24-25).

Ah ha. But you see SIN INDWELLING US and EVIL PRESENT with us REMAINS under the law. If you do not believe this try murdering someone and SEE HOW FREE FROM THE LAW you really are.

quote from smaller
I am not going to take the time to cite you the MULTIPLE TEXTS that show homosexuality A SIN. If you have not got that far on the subject you are over your head anyway.


Have i said ANYWHERE that homosexuality was not sin in biblical times?

If you want to make your case APART FROM THE WORD then you are making a POSITION OF THE WORLD.

I am not interested in such things. What do I care of trying to CONTROL SIN. The MORE the LAW is applied to it THE STRONGER IT GETS and THE MORE IT MULTIPLIES.

And APART FROM THE LAW it grows as well. Satan does have children and WEEDS REPRODUCE as well eh???


But i did NOT asked about homosexuality here. I asked to what LAW are you referring all the time. Why dont you answer to it finally?

Do your own word search on it. Biblegateway.com

Just plug in MEN LIE and you'll find it. Then you can name the law whatever you want. I am not interested in slicing and dicing the law with you. Ceremonial, Levitical, Noahide, whatever.

Jesus called these things THE LAW and THE PROPHETS and that they ALL SPOKE OF HIM.


And: "I understand The Law is a little overwhelming as a topic" is not the answer, because it could happen that we are talking about different laws unless you explain yourself.

You cannot make ANY of God's Word go away so IF your track here is to say that THE LEVITICAL LAWS are ONLY FOR THE FLESH OF ISRAEL you are wasting your time.

It is ALL GOD'S WORD and AS SUCH IT ALL STANDS as current for today as it was when it was delivered and it WILL STAND IN THE FUTURE as well.

quote from smaller
When a person eats pork sin indwelling them SINs in the flesh.


Are you blind? Can't you see that eating pork is not SIN in NT. How do you explain THAT?

IF ANY MAN falsely alters God's Laws they are in ERROR. If you think that PETERS SHEET denies the law it does not. If you think that because the Apostles did not REQUIRE THE LAW to be followed by the gentiles THIS DOES NOT SET ASIDE THE LAW either.

The Law stands exactly as written.


When i talk that death is the penalty of sin, i talk about the same thing, and still you opposed to this idea and said that sin within us is paying the penalty. It's all about language, while the essence seems to be same.

What you are saying is that for your TEMPORAL CRIME you should pay AN ETERNAL PENALTY? I say this type of measure is A FALSE measure.

Sin, evil, and death will be eternally PUNISHED/ANNIHILATED. It was GOD HIMSELF who created ALL THINGS. When He is finished USING THESE THINGS they will be set aside. They are not of the Eternal nor are they FIT to EXIST in ETERNITY as ETERNITY.

quote from smaller
When a person dies they are separated from their sins. (Romans 6:7)


If you read this verse in context you see that it is not talking about our physical death, but our death with Christ.

This is an accounted or reckoned position while we are still in the flesh, but it is a reality of the flesh as well. He was talking about PHYSICAL DEATH. The SAME PHYSICAL DEATH that JESUS suffered.


As He died in cross, so did we. As He was rised from the dead, so were we. We are identified with His death and resurrection.

Exactly the point, but you see nowhere is the threat of SINNING in the believer (or anyone else) REMOVED while we are still attached to OUR MORTAL BODIES.


And you say that you are one of those absolutists, who think that they own the truth and those who oppose their ideas are wrong?

I understand you are looking for the FLAWS in this position. You have made your attempts to DENY the law. You have made your attempts to DENY THE WORD. You have made your attempts to MAKE HOMOSEXUALITY not be a SIN. In the end you will ACCUSE me of being various things for whatever reason. I am only interested in what THE WORD has to say about all these things.


IF so, then you arent better than any fundy and it's useless to waste our time on this matter, because you are so right in your own eyes.

Are you going to condemn me to burn forever now CoP??? I see God's Wisdom in these matters. What is that to you?

quote from smaller
ALL SIN IN THE FLESH IS CONDEMNED yet GOD LOVES ALL OF MANKIND. It is GOD Himself who has BOUND US to DISOBEDIENCE so that ALL will receive MERCY. Romans 11:32


So are condemned ALL humans, because ALL have sinned, but God loves us even if we are sinners. That's why He payed the prize in the Cross so we all might recieve mercy.

God BOUND men TO disobedience. You want to BLUR these lines. I do not have to. I see ALL PEOPLE as GOD'S CHILDREN and as such THEY ARE PERFECT, even while they are BEING PERFECTED by this exercise of TEMPORAL LIFE bound with our ENEMIES. Longsuffering is not a short lesson.

enjoy!

smaller

smaller
May 6th, 2004, 08:40 AM
Greetings NIN

Originally posted by smaller
Can you find a SINGLE PLACE where I have CONDONED HOMOSEXUALITY? Why do you attempt to accuse me of such?


You are right now, not once have you bothered to tell beanieboy what God really thinks of his life.

God HAS CONDEMNED ALL SIN, including YOURS. I do NOT condone homosexuality NOR promote it. YOUR false attempt to SMEAR me on this just shows you as a typical pharisee.

Some people sins (like beanieboys) come before him. Some follow after, but sooner or later ALL is revealed. You think yourself FREE FROM SIN??? Then you are SORELY DECEIVED.

quote from smaller
Are you SINLESS little Ms. Condemnation of others???


Thank God I met the Law before I met you, or else I would still be in my sin, unsaved, and a stranger to Christ. I have been humbled, washed and forgiven. You?

I believe what John wrote was TRUTH. We cannot say WE HAVE NO SIN.

I will not FOLLOW YOU in your DECEPTION of YOURSELF.

If you think your are SINLESS then your are DECEIVED. It might make you "feel clean and sqeaky" but it is NOT THE TRUTH.

Also, in your ETERNAL DAMNATION OF YOUR FELLOWs of MANKIND I see you SINNING GREATER than beanieboy so your CLEANLINESS/SINLESSNESS is belied by YOUR ACTIONS.

enjoy!

smaller

servent101
May 6th, 2004, 08:41 AM
Poly
And there are different means by which somebody should be addressed. If one is an unbeliever and yet has questions over salvation and is asking them sincerely, then he should be given sincere answers and encouraged to accept Christ so that he doesn't live an eternity apart from God. Then there are ones like you who have been given more than your fair share of sincere answers. I've seen people on here encouraging you to accept Christ and turn from your sin and they are nice about it. Does this work? Have you accepted Christ? No. You continue to mock Him, thinking that God can love you and you have no need of a sacrifice to cover that filth you live in. Those that mock God in the bible are themselves mocked as well.

When will you get it through your thick skull that it is your version of the Good News that is in error - it is you who have rejected Christ, and it is you who thinks that being belligerent towards people and bringing reprisals to yourself is an indication that you are a follower of Jesus... Jesus was offensive - and if you read your Bible you will find that Jesus was most offensive to people like you!

I am writing this for the benefit of beanieboy - it would take about six months of deprogramming yourself Poly to be able to see clearly what is actually in the Bible - you are so full of piss and vinegar, you may need a lifetime of being an atheist to clear the slate so your mind could properly digest Spiritual Truth - I give up on you, but with God all things are possible - do you ever notice that some people who post here say that once they were of the same mindset as you - but by the help of a very special person they pulled out of their misconceptions - It is a long haul for you to get back to the surface - I will remember you in prayer.

With Christ's Love

Servent101

beanieboy
May 6th, 2004, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by Nineveh

Since he heard the sound of the trumpet but did not take warning, his blood will be on his own head. If he had taken warning, he would have saved himself.

And some of the seeds feel on hard ground, and did not grow, and were eaten by birds...

You may want to do some introspection, my friend.

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by smaller

God HAS CONDEMNED ALL SIN, including YOURS.

The Law lead me to that conclusion, not you. You are too busy telling folks they don't need to repent. You are busy telling Poly and others to hush about this fact. I was convicted by the Law, not "tolerant" Christians.


I do NOT condone homosexuality NOR promote it. YOUR false attempt to SMEAR me on this just shows you as a typical pharisee.

Why on earth are you telling me?! Tell beanieboy! Better yet, leave you out of it and tell him what God says.


Some people sins (like beanieboys) come before him. Some follow after, but sooner or later ALL is revealed. You think yourself FREE FROM SIN??? Then you are SORELY DECEIVED.

I'll follow Paul's example, "should we continue in sin so that grace might abound? No." Unfortunatly though, beanieboy chooses to be outside of even God's grace by denying Christ.

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

And some of the seeds feel on hard ground, and did not grow, and were eaten by birds...

I tend to think the Gospel falling on your heart is exacly as you just described.

beanieboy
May 6th, 2004, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by Nineveh

I tend to think the Gospel falling on your heart is exacly as you just described.

Thank you for your concern.
I will pray and meditate on it, and ask God to show me Truth.

May the Spirit be with you.

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 08:58 AM
beanieboy,

May the True and Righteous Creator God send you His Spirit to lead you into all Truth. I hope you will meditate on His Words He had written down that speak directly to you.

smaller
May 6th, 2004, 08:59 AM
NIN

ARE YOU SINLESS?

At least Poly and Sibbie were civilized enough to ANSWER.

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 09:01 AM
smaller,
I'm sorry you can't read my replies or understand them.

beanieboy
May 6th, 2004, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by Nineveh
Why on earth are you telling me?! Tell beanieboy! Better yet, leave you out of it and tell him what God says.


I believe he is trying to take a speck out of your eye.
He is trying to edify you.

But instead, you point to me.
I've made it clear, I deny Jesus, I deny your version of God, etc.
But yesterday, I thanked my version of God for the sweet smell of lilacs, and for the warm summer breeze on my face, as ww had, and I was so happy just being with God.

Now, while, in your opinion, I'm taking a subway to hell, can you also not see that it is possible that you have some imperfection, if only a slight one, that may make you a better tool for God to use?

Don't walk away from criticism, or try to assuage guilt by pointing to another. Take it or leave it, but listen to it at the very least.

God may be speaking to you.

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

I believe he is trying to take a speck out of your eye.

I tend to think it's smaller with the plank of homosexuality in his eye. As for me, I haven't that speck to remove, so I am able to see clearly.

beanieboy
May 6th, 2004, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by Nineveh

beanieboy,

May the True and Righteous Creator God send you His Spirit to lead you into all Truth. I hope you will meditate on His Words He had written down that speak directly to you.

Leviticus?
That's your favorite one to use with me?

Sure. I'll will meditate on Leviticus, and the call for the death penalty.

Is that the cruxt of your beliefs? The most important part of the Bible?

Or should I be meditating on some other passage?

smaller
May 6th, 2004, 09:05 AM
Nin

You just CANNOT BRING YOURSELF to say it.

It is a YES OR NO question

NOT A DODGE BALL GAME

Poly and Sibbie said YES.

What do you say...???

(28th time asked OF NIN, still no response)

beanieboy
May 6th, 2004, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by Nineveh

I tend to think it's smaller with the plank of homosexuality in his eye. As for me, I haven't that speck to remove, so I am able to see clearly.

So, you have reached perfection?

Congratulations.

May the True Spirit be with you as well.

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

Leviticus?

And Romans, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Colossians... God has a lot to say to you. I hope you are willing to listen.

smaller
May 6th, 2004, 09:13 AM
No, I want to see her WRITE IT.

She will not because she CANNOT.

She just prances around the question as if she does not know the language.

go figure...

beanieboy
May 6th, 2004, 09:14 AM
That's funny. You've never talked about these things.
The part of Romans about being given over to one's lust, maybe.

So, christianity, from your point of view, seems to be solely based on sexual behavior.

At least when you talk to me.

I asked you a question, and got no response.
You have achieved perfection?

You don't even have a speck in your eye?

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

That's funny. You've never talked about these things.
The part of Romans about being given over to one's lust, maybe.

So, christianity, from your point of view, seems to be solely based on sexual behavior.

At least when you talk to me.

I asked you a question, and got no response.
You have achieved perfection?

You don't even have a speck in your eye?

Those are the verses that speak to you and your sin. Others spoke to me and mine.

smaller, I hope this will answer your question for the millionth time...

No, I'm not perfect, I'm human like everyone else. But yes, I have been forgiven. My righteousness doen't come from me anymore, it comes from Christ. If I stumble, I get back up, I don't look for excuses to stay down. Paul tells us we will see stuggles against the flesh, it's at these times, when those sins I had commited try to reclaim me that I am in most need of exersizing my faith and seeking my strength from God, not trying to find a way to justify following my flesh, or condoning others to follow.

beanieboy
May 6th, 2004, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by Nineveh
No, I'm not perfect, I'm human like everyone else. But yes, I have been forgiven.

Then why do you resist when someone tries to help you by pointing out something where you may need improvement?

How can you say, "Beanie, you need to change" when you can't receive any critique yourself from a fellow christian?

A little silly, isn't it?

(Yes, this is a much better approach. I already feel better towards everyone. :) )

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

Then why do you resist when someone tries to help you by pointing out something where you may need improvement?

smallers intention is not improvement of those who spread the Gospel. If it were more Christians here at TOL might heed him.


How can you say, "Beanie, you need to change" when you can't receive any critique yourself from a fellow christian?

smaller has told me before we have different G/gods. I tend to believe him.

Has smaller shown any love to you at all by explaining your works are not acceptable to God?

smaller
May 6th, 2004, 09:40 AM
Newsflash!

Ninevah CONFESSES that SHE HAS SIN.

bravo. At least you have not fallen into the deception that Poly and Sibbie have stumbled in.

Why then are you pounding on beanieboy?

When you are sinless then you can tell him that HE is CONDEMNED by the LAW and YOU are justified by it.

Love COVERS a multitude of SINS.

Telling someone they are a SINNER under the law only serves to AMPLIFY that SIN.

ALL are sinners UNDER THE MICROSCOPE of The Law.

SIN indwelling US ALL is clearly revealed.

YOU do not RID YOURSELF of it by YOUR WORKS.

You cannot ERADICATE sin indwelling the flesh REGARDLESS OF THE ACTS OF SIN that you see.

Does this CONDONE beanieboys ACT OF HOMOSEXUALITY?

Never!

Does this CONDONE your SINS, whether SEEN or NOT?

Never!

The ONLY THING THAT COUNTS is FAITH WORKING THROUGH LOVE.

The LAW is NOT OF FAITH, so when you want to APPLY IT to POINT OUT SIN IN ANOTHER you merely CONDEMN yourself in the processs as YOU ALSO have fallen there AND WILL CONTINUE TO FALL THERE.

In addition it is A GREATER SIN to CONDEMN SOMEONE to burn in torture forever for THE SAME THINGS THAT ARE IN YOU.

As such you are MORE THE SLAVE OF SIN. You walk in CONDEMNATION OF OTHERS and HOLD SINS against others even though YOU are not exempt.

This is a FALSE MEASURE and under the LAW God HATES false measures eh?

enjoy!

smaller

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by smaller

Ninevah CONFESSES that SHE HAS SIN.

In reality, Nineveh has already confessed her sins and been washed in the blood of the Lamb. You?

beanieboy
May 6th, 2004, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by Nineveh

smallers intention is not improvement of those who spread the Gospel. If it were more Christians here at TOL might heed him.
smaller has told me before we have different G/gods. I tend to believe him.
Has smaller shown any love to you at all by explaining your works are not acceptable to God?

Now you are pointing to smaller.

Can you not see that?
You won't listen to anyone, because you see your self as perfect, or at the very least, that no one could ever point out an imperfection to you.

You may want to think about that and pray about that.

smaller
May 6th, 2004, 09:48 AM
Greetings Nin

Let's examine your position AGAIN.

When you did your ACT of confession DID YOU THEN BECOME sinless?

and let's not post 28 times to get a yes or no OK?

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

Now you are pointing to smaller.

Wasn't that what you were refering to? Smaller trying to "edify"? Sort of dishonest of you to claim I am trying to change the subject when replying to your comments.


You won't listen to anyone, because you see your self as perfect, or at the very least, that no one could ever point out an imperfection to you.

I am not compelled to follow the teachings of those who confess a different god. Especially when the preaching goes against the teaching of God himself.

Has smaller ever told you, you don't have to pay the price for your works?

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by smaller

Greetings Nin

Let's examine your position AGAIN.

When you did your ACT of confession DID YOU THEN BECOME sinless?

and let's not post 28 times to get a yes or no OK?

Smaller, I will be judged by the Righteousness of Christ. You?

Again, I'll ask, why have you not addressed beanieboy once on this thread about his acts you know God loaths? Is it because you are apathetic and really don't care if he dies at a younger age or gets a disease?

beanieboy
May 6th, 2004, 09:51 AM
Btw, CoP, for example, has said that he thinks homosexuality is a sin.

But I don't feel hated by him. I feel like he sees me as a person, so I listen to him.

You, Nin, only see me as a homo. Many people want me to be executed, and call me faggot, and make little puke icons, or pictures of people shooting gay people, then call that "love."
I shouldn't feel hatred. I shouldn't feel threatened. I shouldn't feel fear.

Oh, it's not THEM that would kill me, it the "government."

I call that lying. I call that false love.

And can you really love God by behaving this way?

smaller
May 6th, 2004, 09:52 AM
Awww NIN...you just couldn't do it could you?

here we go again...

You really could improve your communications skills Nin.

DID YOU BECOME SINLESS upon your CONFESSION of being a SINNER or confession of SINNING???

YES/NO?

beanieboy
May 6th, 2004, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by Nineveh
Has smaller ever told you, you don't have to pay the price for your works?

Nin, is that going to change anything?

I got it. You think homosexuality is wrong.

I'm not Christian.

And I think you have screwed up priorities.

Brag all you want about how you are going to be welcomed into God's loving arms because you are forgiven, but I think you are really in love with your own false ego.

You can't even listen to anyone else, or say, "Hmnm, I don't know if I agree with you, but I will think on that."

You point to me. "Why attack me? Beanie's the homo."
Then I ask you to listen.
You point the finger at smaller.

And yet, I'm supposed to listen to you?

Come on. Think about it.

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

Btw, CoP, for example, has said that he thinks homosexuality is a sin.

But I don't feel hated by him. I feel like he sees me as a person, so I listen to him.

You, Nin, only see me as a homo. Many people want me to be executed, and call me faggot, and make little puke icons, or pictures of people shooting gay people, then call that "love."
I shouldn't feel hatred. I shouldn't feel threatened. I shouldn't feel fear.

Oh, it's not THEM that would kill me, it the "government."

I call that lying. I call that false love.

And can you really love God by behaving this way?

I know what God has to say to you. If I actually hated you, I would want to see you dead. Of course you can argue my position of recriminalization, but even then, your are arguing God's ideas. And once again I would point out to you homos are murdering each other by the hundreds of thousands, when it was against the law, not even a fraction of that were ever executed by authorities. A law would be far more compasionate to homos than homos are to each other.

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 09:59 AM
smaller,
I have answered your questions on many threads many times. Your turn:
Why have you not addressed beanieboy once on this thread about his acts you know God loaths? Is it because you are apathetic and really don't care if he dies at a younger age or gets a disease?

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

Nin, is that going to change anything?

Your blood wouldn't be on his head, at the very least.


I got it. You think homosexuality is wrong.

I know God says it is wrong.


I'm not Christian.

There is hope.


And I think you have screwed up priorities.

Such is the gulf between us.

smaller
May 6th, 2004, 10:04 AM
Greetings NIN

No, you have not.

You admit on the one hand that YOU ARE NOT PERFECT.

This does NOT ANSWSER whether you HAVE SIN or HAVE SINNED. It is merely OBFUSCATION on your part.

And you think that THE BLOOD OF CHRIST condones YOUR SIN?

You are VERY WRONG.

enjoy!

smaller

Cyrus of Persia
May 6th, 2004, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by Nineveh

Make a thread on it.

HERE is the tread for it!

This thread is for pointing out that Christians do bad if they dont point out sins of others, so they could repent.

Breaking the Sabbath is as sin as is homosexuality according to the Law.

So i wait your reply here.

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by smaller

Greetings NIN

No, you have not.

You admit on the one hand that YOU ARE NOT PERFECT.

This does NOT ANSWSER whether you HAVE SIN or HAVE SINNED. It is merely OBFUSCATION on your part.

And you think that THE BLOOD OF CHRIST condones YOUR SIN?

You are VERY WRONG.

enjoy!

smaller

Perhaps that is because you still don't understand the Gospel.

Nice sidestep to my question, though.

beanieboy
May 6th, 2004, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by Nineveh

I know what God has to say to you. If I actually hated you, I would want to see you dead. Of course you can argue my position of recriminalization, but even then, your are arguing God's ideas. And once again I would point out to you homos are murdering each other by the hundreds of thousands, when it was against the law, not even a fraction of that were ever executed by authorities. A law would be far more compasionate to homos than homos are to each other.

I see. You don't want me dead.
God wants me dead.

When are you going stop?

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

HERE is the tread for it!

This thread is for pointing out that Christians do bad if they dont point out sins of others, so they could repent.

Breaking the Sabbath is as sin as is homosexuality according to the Law.

So i wait your reply here.

The Sabbath was a sign for Isreal. The NT explains some hold one day as holy some hold all days the same. The NT goes on to support the OT in God's thoughts about sexual immorality.

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

I see. You don't want me dead.
God wants me dead.

When are you going stop?

God sent Jesus so you don't have to die for your works. Do you know you are sinning in the eyes of God?

I guess I'll stop when you stop replying, repent, or die from some disease. : shrugs:

beanieboy
May 6th, 2004, 10:18 AM
God sent Jesus so I don't have to die for my works.

But you want the government to kill me.

That makes sense to you?

With all due respect, I think you are sinning in the eyes of God as well. If we can still, after being Christian, ask for forgiveness, Jesus still sees our sin.

Yet, you won't listen.

You won't even think about it, or pray about it.

Hm.

Nineveh
May 6th, 2004, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy

God sent Jesus so I don't have to die for my works.

But you want the government to kill me.

That makes sense to you?

If it were a crime punishable by death, would you consider accepting the lifestyle?


With all due respect, I think you are sinning in the eyes of God as well. If we can still, after being Christian, ask for forgiveness, Jesus still sees our sin.

To be rather blunt, I don't really care what a pagan's god may think or not about what God has called me to do. I left my idols long ago for what they were, silent on sin.

So, back to my question, do you know you are sinning in the eyes of God?