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Knight
April 30th, 2004, 09:55 PM
Are there still any Christians that think you shouldn't judge?

novice
April 30th, 2004, 09:56 PM
:think:

cattyfan
April 30th, 2004, 10:06 PM
I'm all for judging in the appropriate fashion. pass the gavel....

Lovejoy
April 30th, 2004, 10:34 PM
Yikes! The connontations of that word have changed so dramatically. Frankly, judging does not get you very far, since we have no authority to back it. Christ will still enforce as He sees fit. I give accountability like no ones business, but where does that get me with those not of the Body? I like proverbs, correct a fool and make and enemy, correct a wise person and they will be wiser.

Anyway, I am not much for vitriol, but if I can help someone by correction, so be it. But if it is from bitterness in my heart, or generates bitterness, I am only hurt.

I guess I don't stand as judge, but will use discernment to decide if I need to act as one. I will follow up later with actual scriptural referrences. Got to get back to the books.

Jauchzer
April 30th, 2004, 10:38 PM
Unless a Christian is a hypocrite, he has a duty to judge.

How can a Christian accomplish anything if he cannot judge which acts are beneficial and which acts are wicked and destructive to him and others. How can he choose who will mentor and encourage his growth in his relationship with the Lord if he cannot judge which people are honest and wise, and which people are likely to lead others astray?

Those who cannot make good judgements cannot lead others.

I am powerless to assist someone to better himself if I am unable to judge that which is wrong in his life. And no non-judgemental nodding affirmative crying towel can assist me if I stray and need to be rebuked, no matter how "loving" they believe their craven behavior to be.

There is an inherent hypocrisyl in pretending that one does not judge. All cognizant individuals make judgements and comparisons. Some just decline to act upon them, and consider themselves to be more spiritual for their cowardace.

Knight
April 30th, 2004, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by Jauchzer

Unless a Christian is a hypocrite, he has a duty to judge.

How can a Christian accomplish anything if he cannot judge which acts are beneficial and which acts are wicked and destructive to him and others. How can he choose who will mentor and encourage his growth in his relationship with the Lord if he cannot judge which people are honest and wise, and which people are likely to lead others astray?

Those who cannot make good judgements cannot lead others.

I am powerless to assist someone to better himself if I am unable to judge that which is wrong in his life. And no non-judgemental nodding affirmative crying towel can assist me if I stray and need to be rebuked, no matter how "loving" they believe their craven behavior to be.

There is an inherent hypocrisyl in pretending that one does not judge. All cognizant individuals make judgements and comparisons. Some just decline to act upon them, and consider themselves to be more spiritual for their cowardace. Wow.... great post!

Knight
April 30th, 2004, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by Jauchzer

Unless a Christian is a hypocrite, he has a duty to judge.

How can a Christian accomplish anything if he cannot judge which acts are beneficial and which acts are wicked and destructive to him and others. How can he choose who will mentor and encourage his growth in his relationship with the Lord if he cannot judge which people are honest and wise, and which people are likely to lead others astray?

Those who cannot make good judgements cannot lead others.

I am powerless to assist someone to better himself if I am unable to judge that which is wrong in his life. And no non-judgemental nodding affirmative crying towel can assist me if I stray and need to be rebuked, no matter how "loving" they believe their craven behavior to be.

There is an inherent hypocrisyl in pretending that one does not judge. All cognizant individuals make judgements and comparisons. Some just decline to act upon them, and consider themselves to be more spiritual for their cowardace. :first: POTD (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14144)

Leo Volont
April 30th, 2004, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Are there still any Christians that think you shouldn't judge?

The Doctrine only states that we should first attain a level of Righteousness and Purity before we start heeping Judgment upon moral degenerates. It does not say that we should never judge, but only that we resolve our own issues first.

Of course, if your Doctrines encourage you to languish forever in your sinfulness, then you will never arrive at that point where you have the Moral Discernment to Judge. So much for being Protestant. But if you have taken the time and trouble to Morally Streamline your own life, then of course you would have risen to that Level of Wisdom and Know How that could help others get their raggedy affairs in order.

Crow
April 30th, 2004, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by Leo Volont

Of course, if your Doctrines encourage you to languish forever in your sinfulness, then you will never arrive at that point where you have the Moral Discernment to Judge. So much for being Protestant. But if you have taken the time and trouble to Morally Streamline your own life, then of course you would have risen to that Level of Wisdom and Know How that could help others get their raggedy affairs in order.

Where's my gavel?....ah, yes. Another diatribe unsupported by fact from Leo Volont. He's improving, though. Paul's name wasn't even mentioned.

OK, now where's cry?--I wanna hear the "Jews are responsible for everything that's wrong in the world" angle.
.

Lovejoy
April 30th, 2004, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by Jauchzer

Unless a Christian is a hypocrite, he has a duty to judge.

How can a Christian accomplish anything if he cannot judge which acts are beneficial and which acts are wicked and destructive to him and others. How can he choose who will mentor and encourage his growth in his relationship with the Lord if he cannot judge which people are honest and wise, and which people are likely to lead others astray?

Those who cannot make good judgements cannot lead others.

I am powerless to assist someone to better himself if I am unable to judge that which is wrong in his life. And no non-judgemental nodding affirmative crying towel can assist me if I stray and need to be rebuked, no matter how "loving" they believe their craven behavior to be.

There is an inherent hypocrisyl in pretending that one does not judge. All cognizant individuals make judgements and comparisons. Some just decline to act upon them, and consider themselves to be more spiritual for their cowardace.

You are right, but you are talking about discernment. Judgement (in the spiritual sense) is the right to bestow condemnation or salvation. Christ is not going to stand before people and split hairs, He is going to let them in or send them away, forever. We cannot decide that.
Discernment also allows us to decide when it is appropriate to act on correction, or offer assistance. I know a young Christian woman who came to Christ after being convicted by the loving behavior of an older women. She took care of her after the young women made herself terribly ill with drugs. No condemnation, no hellfire. Just love. She used discernment.
Last, discernment tells us when to turn the eye on ourselves. When are we out of hand (even with the condemnation thing).

By no means do I imply that you are wrong. I agree with you, for the most part. We just have to remember that heaven and hell are not ours to take or give. We do have a right and responsibility to help people on the way, with correction or praise, though. We also have to be smart and loving in how we apply them. Christ is clear that people will hate us, and He is also clear that we are not to give people reason to hate us, if you get my meaning.

Leo Volont
April 30th, 2004, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by Crow

Where's my gavel?....ah, yes. Another diatribe unsupported by fact from Leo Volont. He's improving, though. Paul's name wasn't even mentioned.

OK, now where's cry?--I wanna hear the "Jews are responsible for everything that's wrong in the world" angle.
.

You always have something to complain about. You are complaining that you find nothing to complain about.

Crow
April 30th, 2004, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by Leo Volont

You always have something to complain about. You are complaining that you find nothing to complain about.

I'm not complaining, I'm :think: :crackup: :darwinsm:.

Knight
May 1st, 2004, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by Lovejoy

You are right, but you are talking about discernment. Judgement (in the spiritual sense) is the right to bestow condemnation or salvation. This thread is in regard to judgements in general.

The kind of judgements that Christians have been fooled into thinking they shouldn't make.

Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? - 1Corinthians 6:2

Cyrus of Persia
May 1st, 2004, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by Knight

This thread is in regard to judgements in general.

The kind of judgements that Christians have been fooled into thinking they shouldn't make.

Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? - 1Corinthians 6:2

This passage has been awfully misused. It talks about some conflict over matters that are usually solved in courts. So Paul is pointing out: are they not able to solve such problems among themselves, so they need to go and mock themselves in secular courts.

You cannot base any saying: "You have this sin and you have that sin so you go to hell" into this passage. Maybe some other passage, but not this one.

Poly
May 1st, 2004, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

You cannot base any saying: "You have this sin and you have that sin so you go to hell" into this passage. Maybe some other passage, but not this one.
No, you've got it wrong there. It should read "You have this sin and you have that sin and since you have not accepted Christ who is the sacrifice to cover those sins once and for all, then you will go to hell." You make it sound as if when one says he judges he is meaning that he holds the authority to send someone to hell. The decision has already been made by God. We're simply relaying the message. You cannot know a persons status with God without first judging whether or not they have accepted Christ. If we care about people we should warn them that God is the one who has already made up His mind about their destination if they do not believe in Him.

John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

the Sibbie
May 1st, 2004, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by Leo Volont

The Doctrine only states that we should first attain a level of Righteousness and Purity before we start heeping Judgment upon moral degenerates. It does not say that we should never judge, but only that we resolve our own issues first.

Of course, if your Doctrines encourage you to languish forever in your sinfulness, then you will never arrive at that point where you have the Moral Discernment to Judge. So much for being Protestant. But if you have taken the time and trouble to Morally Streamline your own life, then of course you would have risen to that Level of Wisdom and Know How that could help others get their raggedy affairs in order. Leo, just out of curiosity, is there anyone from this forum that you think is worthy to judge your actions if you stumble?

Cyrus of Persia
May 1st, 2004, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Poly

No, you've got it wrong there. It should read "You have this sin and you have that sin and since you have not accepted Christ who is the sacrifice to cover those sins once and for all, then you will go to hell." You make it sound as if when one says he judges he is meaning that he holds the authority to send someone to hell. The decision has already been made by God. We're simply relaying the message. You cannot know a persons status with God without first judging whether or not they have accepted Christ. If we care about people we should warn them that God is the one who has already made up His mind about their destination if they do not believe in Him.

John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Nah, it was not the point. I didnt even bothered to think is this sentence correct, or not. The point what i wanted to make is that you cannot make such judgements based on this passage.

smaller
May 1st, 2004, 03:23 PM
No, you've got it wrong there. It should read "You have this sin and you have that sin and since you have not accepted Christ who is the sacrifice to cover those sins once and for all, then you will go to hell." You make it sound as if when one says he judges he is meaning that he holds the authority to send someone to hell. The decision has already been made by God. We're simply relaying the message. You cannot know a persons status with God without first judging whether or not they have accepted Christ. If we care about people we should warn them that God is the one who has already made up His mind about their destination if they do not believe in Him.

Chalk up another one for LIMITED ATONEMENT from their god who is nearly a complete failure....

Romans 14:
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

John 7:24
-judge righteous judgment.

An example you ask???

Who do YOU see on the LEFT???

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Nowhere are there PEOPLE listed as DEPARTING TO THE FLAMES yet men in THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS...do several things with these verses....

# 1, they OVERlook that it represents WORKS BASED salvation...a ridiculous notion...giving another person a CUP OF WATER does not logically equate to ETERNAL SALVATION....(though if you believed it was this easy I would not argue with you)

# 2, they CONTINUALLY will JUDGE THEMSELVES as righteous in these endevours and CONDEMN others to FIRE...

This type of judgment is BLIND PHARISITICAL JUDGMENT....

Yet we KNOW what SIN IS and WHO HAS IT eh???

AAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLL

Christians (like Poly) think that somehow THEY RID THEMSELVES of SIN by their ACT(ing) and that OTHERS SINS are retained. They don't blink an eyelash to LIMIT THE WORK OF GOD IN CHRIST....

Now that is truly p-a-t-h-e-t-i-c.

See how the JUDGment works?

enjoy!

smaller

Lovejoy
May 1st, 2004, 04:48 PM
First of all, that verse of Corinthians of specifically in regards to brothers within the church. I will agree with that, and double. My brothers get away with nothing around me, and expect the same in return. As to the world, we are not promised any authority over it until after Jesus comes back.

Once again, I am not disagreeing with you. I have met (nominal) christians who used the "we don't judge" thing to protect their lusts for things of the world (even things as stupid as tarot cards and astrology). Disciplice we must have, accountability we need, but arrogant presumption of righteousness is condemning. We have nothing that those of the world don't have, except through Jesus. It is by Grace that we are saved, and that is a mercy. If we had to stand on our actions, we would be as doomed as the rest. Nothing we can do will raise us above that. There are those of the world who are more generous, more kind, and more forgiving. All atributes of Christ. All they lack is Him. If we get them to accept Him, then the Holy Spirit and human accountability will take care of the rest.

Where does judgement (as in the authority to make a binding decision, as the Greek of the word implies) come in?

Poly
May 1st, 2004, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by smaller
# 1, they OVERlook that it represents WORKS BASED salvation...a ridiculous notion...giving another person a CUP OF WATER does not logically equate to ETERNAL SALVATION....(though if you believed it was this easy I would not argue with you)

# 2, they CONTINUALLY will JUDGE THEMSELVES as righteous in these endevours and CONDEMN others to FIRE...

This type of judgment is BLIND PHARISITICAL JUDGMENT....

Yet we KNOW what SIN IS and WHO HAS IT eh???

AAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLL

Christians (like Poly) think that somehow THEY RID THEMSELVES of SIN by their ACT(ing) and that OTHERS SINS are retained. They don't blink an eyelash to LIMIT THE WORK OF GOD IN CHRIST....



Smaller deserves the TOL award for Poster who BLABS the most but has YET to say ANYTHING THAT MAKES SENSE.

enjoy :rolleyes:

smaller
May 1st, 2004, 06:34 PM
Poly, the only apparent thing is your lack of reading comprehension skills, but of course when you are locked into the ETERNAL JUDGMENT OF OTHERS you become extremely BLIND.

Poly
May 1st, 2004, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by smaller

Poly, the only apparent thing is your lack of reading comprehension skills, but of course when you are locked into the ETERNAL JUDGMENT OF OTHERS you become extremely BLIND.
YEAH, ok, TINY TIM, whatever YOU say. :yawn:

GodismyJudge
May 2nd, 2004, 12:17 AM
Please read carefully,

I tend to believe along these lines-

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isaiah 28:10


Ultimately, God Requires of each and every one of us, that we should judge.
Righteously

Jesus said...

John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

We know that...

1 Corinthians 6:2-3
2 ...the saints shall judge the world....the world shall be judged by you.... are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

3 ...we shall judge angels.... how much more things that pertain to this life?


(I like this translation...)

John 7:24 (Young's Literal Translation)
24 judge not according to appearance, but the righteous judgement, judge.'
(Or, Be Judgeing the righteous judgement!)

God has Judged, that we (mankind) should always, at all times, judge all things, Righteously.

1 Corinthians 2:15
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things...


According to His Righteous Judgement(s)!!!.

(IE: after Him; Subject to Him and in agreement with Him.)

Amos 3:3
3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?


( Which is IS "doing Righteousness", (1 John 3:7)

It is His Righteousness, formed IN US, By His Abiding Word and by His Indwelling Spirit )

2 Corinthians 3:18
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass (Mirror) [which is the Word of God -see James 1:23-25] the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Ephesians 5:1-2..
1 Therefore,be ye imitators of God, as beloved children, (Judge as He Judges and walk as He walked)
2 and walk in love, even as Christ loved us, and delivered himself up for us, an offering and sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling savour.

Ephesians 5:8-14 Amplified Bible

8 For once you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord; walk as children of Light [lead the lives of those native-born to the Light].
9 For the fruit (the effect, the product) of the Light or [1] the Spirit [consists] in every form of kindly goodness, uprightness of heart, and trueness of life.
10 And try to learn what is pleasing to the Lord [let your lives be constant proofs of what is most acceptable to Him].
11 Take no part in and have no fellowship with the fruitless deeds and enterprises of darkness, but instead [let your lives be so in contrast as to] expose and reprove and convict them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of or mention the things that [such people] practice in secret.
13 But when anything is exposed and reproved by the light, it is made visible and clear; and where everything is visible and clear there is light.

John 3:19-20
19 And this is the judgement, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

(Walking in the Love of God would be walking as Christ walked, his very Presence in us exposing the darkness)

John 3:21
21 But he that [i]doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Ephesians 5:14
14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

In closing,

Isaiah 28:5-6
5 In that day shall the LORD of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people,
6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.

And

Isaiah 28:5-6
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little;





I started on this last night and got pulled over on to this thread, (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14141) Which I believe can be used as an Scriptural example of walking in Love and Judging Righteously according to the Word of God.
----------------------------------

smaller,

I would use the same scriptural argument I posted here (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=514798#post514798) in addressing many of your unscripturally harsh and judgemental attitudes towards the bretheren.
----------------------------------

Philippians 2:3
Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory;...



GodismyJudge

smaller
May 2nd, 2004, 06:08 AM
Greetings GIMG

There is quite a HUGE difference between judging someone who MANipulates people BLANTANTLY and FALSELY for C-A-S-H and judging someone's ETERNAL DESTINY. Can you say BALANCE?

I am readily willing to admit and acknowledge that the "Copelands" will be separated from their respective "wolves" when they die.

In the meantime how anyone can STOMACH that stuff is beyond me, but HEY, been there, DONE THAT too. My personal favorite (about 20 years ago) was Kenneth Hagin so I am rather (pukingly) familiar with the jargon.

As for "good teachings" I will also acknowledge that they "scratch the surface" from time to time. No one at the helm of any "group" is without their "talents" eh? If they had NONE then NONE would "listen."

Pity the forces of HELL if we all LOVED and our more DYNAMIC people spoke TRUTH rather than MOOLAH, but hey, this isn't how God set it up. I am more apt to listen to the guy at the bottom of the barrel for my doctrines than the ones at the apparent TOP. It is in WEAKNESS where His Strength prevails.

The observation of COMPARATIVE JUDGMENT is more important.

NO MAN on the face of this earth is FIT to HANDle God's Word and THEN trumpet about determining OTHER PEOPLE'S ETERNAL DESTINIES to the extent of continual and perpetual TORTURE.

This is a SICK SICK SICK position that the so called "church" has FALLEN into and EVIDENCE of Satan's WORKING within US, and I include MYSELF as a ONCE BLINDED practitioner and I am SO SORRY for my BLINDNESS in this matter.

God is GREATER than ANY EVIL that ANY MAN will EVER DO. There is NO SIN that will EVER PREVAIL over the physical death of JESUS CHRIST on the CROSS.

enjoy!

smaller

Leo Volont
May 2nd, 2004, 06:23 AM
Originally posted by Sibbie

Leo, just out of curiosity, is there anyone from this forum that you think is worthy to judge your actions if you stumble?

Not on this page.

But I am watched over.

Just the other night in a dream I was given advice by a Lady of the Sisterhood of the Immaculate Heart -- in Heaven they have the Strangest and Most Beautiful Religious Habits.

For Decades now, whenever I need a new Direction, the Prophet Elijah comes and tells me so.

So what can anybody here tell me? Some posters have potential. But nobody here is very advanced.

I've sat before Gurus and Major Religious Leaders. No one here is going to impress me unless they've been holding way back up till now.

smaller
May 2nd, 2004, 07:29 AM
what is that stink???

Oh, OK.

Lovejoy
May 2nd, 2004, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by GodismyJudge

Please read carefully,

I tend to believe along these lines-

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isaiah 28:10


Ultimately, God Requires of each and every one of us, that we should judge.
Righteously

Jesus said...

John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

We know that...

1 Corinthians 6:2-3
2 ...the saints shall judge the world....the world shall be judged by you.... are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

3 ...we shall judge angels.... how much more things that pertain to this life?


(I like this translation...)

John 7:24 (Young's Literal Translation)
24 judge not according to appearance, but the righteous judgement, judge.'
(Or, Be Judgeing the righteous judgement!)

God has Judged, that we (mankind) should always, at all times, judge all things, Righteously.

1 Corinthians 2:15
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things...


According to His Righteous Judgement(s)!!!.

(IE: after Him; Subject to Him and in agreement with Him.)

Amos 3:3
3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?


( Which is IS "doing Righteousness", (1 John 3:7)

It is His Righteousness, formed IN US, By His Abiding Word and by His Indwelling Spirit )

2 Corinthians 3:18
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass (Mirror) [which is the Word of God -see James 1:23-25] the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Ephesians 5:1-2..
1 Therefore,be ye imitators of God, as beloved children, (Judge as He Judges and walk as He walked)
2 and walk in love, even as Christ loved us, and delivered himself up for us, an offering and sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling savour.

Ephesians 5:8-14 Amplified Bible

8 For once you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord; walk as children of Light [lead the lives of those native-born to the Light].
9 For the fruit (the effect, the product) of the Light or [1] the Spirit [consists] in every form of kindly goodness, uprightness of heart, and trueness of life.
10 And try to learn what is pleasing to the Lord [let your lives be constant proofs of what is most acceptable to Him].
11 Take no part in and have no fellowship with the fruitless deeds and enterprises of darkness, but instead [let your lives be so in contrast as to] expose and reprove and convict them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of or mention the things that [such people] practice in secret.
13 But when anything is exposed and reproved by the light, it is made visible and clear; and where everything is visible and clear there is light.

John 3:19-20
19 And this is the judgement, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

(Walking in the Love of God would be walking as Christ walked, his very Presence in us exposing the darkness)

John 3:21
21 But he that [i]doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Ephesians 5:14
14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

In closing,

Isaiah 28:5-6
5 In that day shall the LORD of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people,
6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.

And

Isaiah 28:5-6
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little;





I started on this last night and got pulled over on to this thread, (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14141) Which I believe can be used as an Scriptural example of walking in Love and Judging Righteously according to the Word of God.
----------------------------------

smaller,

I would use the same scriptural argument I posted here (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=514798#post514798) in addressing many of your unscripturally harsh and judgemental attitudes towards the bretheren.
----------------------------------

Philippians 2:3
Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory;...



GodismyJudge

If your post is to imply that much of the power in righteous judgement comes in simply our living righteously, than I agree. I think that my above post (in which the young lady is convicted by the love shown her by the christian women) is in agreement with your statement. I have heard of men and women that so walked in the spirit, that a glance from them could convict the hardest of hearts. And that from the power of the lives they led. Criticism is our weakest tool, I think, for conviction.

Living4Him
May 2nd, 2004, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by Lovejoy

I have heard of men and women that so walked in the spirit, that a glance from them could convict the hardest of hearts. And that from the power of the lives they led. Criticism is our weakest tool, I think, for conviction.


I agree!!


Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Lovejoy
May 2nd, 2004, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by Living4Him

I agree!!


Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

An apt citation of scripture, thank you! I think that this is at the heart of our obediance.

GodismyJudge
May 3rd, 2004, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by Lovejoy

I have heard of men and women that so walked in the spirit, that a glance from them could convict the hardest of hearts. And that from the power of the lives they led. Criticism is our weakest tool, I think, for conviction.


Indeed,

Smith Wigglesworth was said to be one such man of God.
It is also said that he was in the habit of taking Communion first thing every morning.

1Corinthians 11:23-32

23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.


John 3:21
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn(Lit. Judge) the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned:(Lit. Judged) but he that believeth not is condemned(Lit. Judged) already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1 John 3:5-7
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous


Amos 3:3
Can two walk together, except they be agreed?


John 15:4-7

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

1 John 2:27-29

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

smaller
May 3rd, 2004, 08:18 AM
Did we hit a softspot with you GIMG on the Copelands?

How do you judge the UNBELIEVER GIMG?

Ecumenicist
May 3rd, 2004, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Are there still any Christians that think you shouldn't judge?

(In my best Arnold Horschak voice: )

Oh me, me, me, I do, I do!

There's a difference between judging and discerning. We are
called to discern for ourselves, not to judge others.

"Judge not..." has to mean something. We can rationalize it
away, but we can do that with any Scripture, so how can
scripture hold any meaning at all?

Dave

p.s. my own rationalizing disclaimer, this doesn't include
government court systems. Governments are called to
protect their citizens through laws and enforcement of
those laws.

beanieboy
May 3rd, 2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by Knight

Are there still any Christians that think you shouldn't judge?

What has been explained to me is that you can judge (condemn) another if you don't do the same thing.

However, the passage says to remove the plank from your eye before removing the speck from another.

Is a plank and a speck the same thing? If they are not the same thing, how can one come to the conclusion that it is talking about two people committing the same sin?

You can build a floor with a few planks.
Can you build a floor with a few specks of sawdust?

It seems to be saying, "remove the greater thing from yourself before splitting hairs over someone else."

Rolf Ernst
May 3rd, 2004, 03:25 PM
Good post, Knight. "Judge not that you be not judged." is a prohibition against criticising others over matters upon which people have liberty of conscience; that is, the Scripture does not forbid it or else, it may be the placing of blame on someone when their guilt has not been confirmed by two or three witnesses.

Our right to judge is based on our knowledge of Scripture's precepts. In these cases, even though we may personally denounce a prctice or doctrine, the judgement is not really ours. We are just delivering the message of God's judgement on such matters, and we should do so without either fear or apology.

GodismyJudge
May 4th, 2004, 02:04 AM
Originally posted by smaller

Did we hit a softspot with you GIMG on the Copelands?

How do you judge the UNBELIEVER GIMG?

1. Not at all, I just thought that I would let the dust settle a little- so to speak.

This was my primary posting spot and the topic of Judging (Righteously) was, and is my main intent, in both threads.

2. I don't judge the unbeliever.

The Scriptures plainly state that....

1 Corinthians 5:12-13

12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.


Jesus Himself said..

John 5:30
30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just;(Righteous) because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 12:42-48

46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.


John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn(Lit. Judge) the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned:(Lit. Judged) but he that believeth not is condemned(Lit. Judged) already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

(Amplified)
18 He who believes in Him [who clings to, trusts in, relies on Him] is not judged [he who trusts in Him never comes up for judgment; for him there is no rejection, no condemnation--he incurs no damnation]; but he who does not believe (cleave to, rely on, trust in Him) is judged already [he has already been convicted and has already received his sentence] because he has not believed in and trusted in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [He is condemned for refusing to let his trust rest in Christ's name.]

John 12:31
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Can you say, whos' your...

"Abba, Father"

*************************

Back to the thread...

Further Scriptures to Consider

Psalm 25:9-10

9 The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way.

10 All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.

12 What man is he that feareth the LORD? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.

John 5:30
30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just;(Righteous) because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Meekness


Psalm 37:30-31

30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.
31 The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.

James 1:25-26
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, ]and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed
.
26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

Also 2 I left out from my last post.

1 John 2:29
29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1 John 3:10
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.


Doing Righteousness
Judging Righteously

Galatians 5:18
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Romans 8:2-4
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God (did) (by) sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned ( judged, deprived it of it's power) sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.[i]

Psalm 23
1 The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

1 John 4:18
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

smaller
May 4th, 2004, 11:05 AM
Greetings GOD IS MY JUDGE


2. I don't judge the unbeliever.

The Scriptures plainly state that....

1 Corinthians 5:12-13

12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Jesus Himself said..

John 5:30
30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just;(Righteous) because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 12:42-48

46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn(Lit. Judge) the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned:(Lit. Judged) but he that believeth not is condemned(Lit. Judged) already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

(Amplified)
18 He who believes in Him [who clings to, trusts in, relies on Him] is not judged [he who trusts in Him never comes up for judgment; for him there is no rejection, no condemnation--he incurs no damnation]; but he who does not believe (cleave to, rely on, trust in Him) is judged already [he has already been convicted and has already received his sentence] because he has not believed in and trusted in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [He is condemned for refusing to let his trust rest in Christ's name.]

John 12:31
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Can you say, whos' your...

"Abba, Father"

You have posted some texts but GIVEN NO CONCLUSIONS.

Perhaps we can restate or CLARIFY "your" understanding.

YOU don't judge the UNBELIEVER but "YOU SAY" that GOD DOES???

IS this correct???


Further Scriptures to Consider

Psalm 25:9-10

9 The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way.

10 All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.

12 What man is he that feareth the LORD? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.

John 5:30
30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just;(Righteous) because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Meekness

Psalm 37:30-31

30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.
31 The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.

James 1:25-26
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, ]and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed
.
26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

Also 2 I left out from my last post.

1 John 2:29
29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1 John 3:10
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Doing Righteousness
Judging Righteously

Galatians 5:18
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Romans 8:2-4
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God (did) (by) sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned ( judged, deprived it of it's power) sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Psalm 23
1 The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

1 John 4:18
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

5 [i]Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Well OBVIOUSLY none of us are going to DISPUTE the validity of the TEXT.

What have you CONCLUDED from these WORDS is always THE REAL QUESTION though eh?

enjoy!

smaller

philosophizer
May 4th, 2004, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by beanieboy
Is a plank and a speck the same thing? If they are not the same thing, how can one come to the conclusion that it is talking about two people committing the same sin?

Both people have wood in their eye.

YahuShuan
January 30th, 2008, 03:41 PM
Unless a Christian is a hypocrite, he has a duty to judge.

How can a Christian accomplish anything if he cannot judge which acts are beneficial and which acts are wicked and destructive to him and others. How can he choose who will mentor and encourage his growth in his relationship with the Lord if he cannot judge which people are honest and wise, and which people are likely to lead others astray?

Those who cannot make good judgements cannot lead others.

I am powerless to assist someone to better himself if I am unable to judge that which is wrong in his life. And no non-judgemental nodding affirmative crying towel can assist me if I stray and need to be rebuked, no matter how "loving" they believe their craven behavior to be.

There is an inherent hypocrisyl in pretending that one does not judge. All cognizant individuals make judgements and comparisons. Some just decline to act upon them, and consider themselves to be more spiritual for their cowardace.

I agree, well said. And here, a gift...the oil that can not be given is the hunger and thirst for righteousness.

Yah bless.

YahuShuan
January 30th, 2008, 03:51 PM
And now some questions...Is there one among you, who is without sin? Let him cast the stones. And to lay it down further, I ask...Are there any "righteous judges" who would lay claims to the very title of "Christos" once they knew what it meant?

Question #3...Is ANY falsehood "of the Truth"?

Pick up your stones until you get it "right" yourselves". Let only His Words proceed from your mouths, and live up to those Words. Then, the stones you throw would be righteous stones indeed. And they will be truly written upon your hearts, your hearts will be close to Him, and you will "see" to "worship in Spirit and in Truth", together.

If you don't know what it means, then SEEK, you will find, but it IS up to you to "test the spirits to see if they are of Yahuweh", so you must ASK HIM, then you truly "find". There are flaws all around, the spirit of delusion, in EVERYTHING. But HE has sent One who will teach you, and truly, you have no need for another.

If you don't choose the Teacher that Yahuweh sent, you are choosing another! May Yahuweh forbid.

TheFallenAngel
January 30th, 2008, 04:41 PM
There is a difference between judging a man's actions and judging a man. A Christian should wisely judge actions. He can not however judge the hearts of men with accuracy, God alone has access to the heart. People can only make assumptions about the state of someone elses heart and salvation or lack of it. Assumptions are sometimes right and often wrong. Yet some on here continue to judge the hearts of men.

Even if you do decide to take on God's role and start judging people (not their actions) . . . judging does not mean name calling, insulting and looking down your nose at people. This seems to be what many so called Christians here think judging means.

Lighthouse
January 30th, 2008, 05:17 PM
There is a difference between judging a man's actions and judging a man. A Christian should wisely judge actions. He can not however judge the hearts of men with accuracy, God alone has access to the heart. People can only make assumptions about the state of someone elses heart and salvation or lack of it. Assumptions are sometimes right and often wrong. Yet some on here continue to judge the hearts of men.

Even if you do decide to take on God's role and start judging people (not their actions) . . . judging does not mean name calling, insulting and looking down your nose at people. This seems to be what many so called Christians here think judging means.
Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
-Matthew 12:34

A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.
-Luke 6:45

TheFallenAngel
January 30th, 2008, 10:31 PM
Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
-Matthew 12:34

A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.
-Luke 6:45

These scriptures really could work against you. Be careful what you quote.

chrysostom
January 31st, 2008, 02:49 AM
We are just members of the jury and not the judge

YahuShuan
January 31st, 2008, 06:58 AM
There is a difference between judging a man's actions and judging a man. A Christian should wisely judge actions. He can not however judge the hearts of men with accuracy, God alone has access to the heart. People can only make assumptions about the state of someone elses heart and salvation or lack of it. Assumptions are sometimes right and often wrong. Yet some on here continue to judge the hearts of men.

Even if you do decide to take on God's role and start judging people (not their actions) . . . judging does not mean name calling, insulting and looking down your nose at people. This seems to be what many so called Christians here think judging means.

KJVR...Mat 10:11-16 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence. And when ye come into a house, salute it. And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city. Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

The Scriptures...Mat 10:11-16 ďAnd into whatever city or village you enter, ask who is worthy in it, and stay there until you leave. And as you enter into a house, greet it. And if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. And whoever does not receive you nor hear your words, when you leave that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. Truly, I say to you, it shall be more bearable for the land of Seḏom and Amorah in the day of judgment than for that city! See, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.

You seem to be correct, I don't see any name calling or looking down the nose at people...I do see judgment rendered and disciples moving on. No need to hang out and put folks down, they will have enough to deal with when the time has come. And wasting time on those who do not hear keeps the truth from those who would hear it:) I also see that there is a decision to be made by the bearer of the Good News, whether the house be worthy or not...is that "snubbing"? Or is it making a good judgment?

Seems it is up to the disciple to ask, and determine, whether the house is worthy or not. But then again, "disciple" means "taught one", and if they have not been taught to OBEY SCRIPTURE instead of men, then they have no business being a "disciple" for they have yet to be "taught". We determine whether the house is worthy or not, by their reception and response...FRUIT. If they hear and accept the words we bring from above, then they are worthy, if they refuse, they are NOT. Simply deducted.

Mrsdaniels
January 31st, 2008, 07:03 AM
Are there still any Christians that think you shouldn't judge?

Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.:kiss:

aharvey
January 31st, 2008, 08:10 AM
Are there still any Christians that think you shouldn't judge?

Well, yeah, from what I can tell, pretty much all of them think I shouldn't judge. But most of them jealousy claim that right for themselves, and in many cases apparently the nastier the better.

Part of the problem comes from misuse of the word itself. The English word "judge" can mean such different things as evaluate, estimate, or condemn. I don't know what word or words from the original texts have been translated to "judge," but I'm skeptical that the original word had the same range of meanings. But the "judge-mental" crowd uses this to their advantage by denouncing as hypocrites anyone who so much as evaluates as being inappropriate (aha! judging!) nasty insults and personal attacks, er, judging by other Christians. As I've noted before, it's not at all clear to me that the biblical concept of judging equals either forming an opinion or personal-attacking and insulting.

But, again, those folks who most jealously defend their right to condemn you and deny your right to observe them are also most noisily certain that their biblical interpretations are The Only Right One, so whatta ya gonna do?

OMEGA
January 31st, 2008, 09:04 AM
There are different meanings for Judge.
-----------------------------------------------
Mt 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mt 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Lu 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
Lu 12:14 And he said unto him, Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you?
Lu 12:57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?

De 1:16 And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.
Pr 31:9 Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.

Nick M
January 31st, 2008, 09:33 AM
Smaller deserves the TOL award for Poster who BLABS the most but has YET to say ANYTHING THAT MAKES SENSE.

enjoy :rolleyes:

Freelight is off the deep end with concrete shoes himself.

edit: I guess I can't leave letsargue, squeaky, or beloved57 of the alien abduction list.


We are just members of the jury and not the judge

I see your metaphor, and it is not far off at all. I do not pretend to be the rock of offense. We just want to let them know it doesn't have to be this way.

Lighthouse
January 31st, 2008, 11:47 AM
We are just members of the jury and not the judge
When did God ever support the idea of juries?


Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?
-1 Corinthians 6:2-3

freelight
January 31st, 2008, 12:35 PM
****


There is only one True Judge of all, and that is God Alone for only He is All-wise, All-loving, All-just. If one is truly led by the Spirit he is governed by wisdom in all and any judgments, and will be guided in their appropriations. One walking in the Light is centered in integrity and inspired by Love. When any 'human' deems it upon themself to play 'God' or assume and mete out 'judgments' that are not wholly true, distorted, tainted by personal prefrence/ego/bias/ignorance (basically the whole lot of lower carnal misgivings)...he will suffer the karmic backlash of the law of reflectivity, - the same measure of his judgments will judge him. This is why utmost carefulness ought to be had in 'judging' anything or anyone. (both in ones thoughts and words).


paul

Caille
January 31st, 2008, 12:56 PM
Well, yeah, from what I can tell, pretty much all of them think I shouldn't judge.

LOL - good one!



But the "judge-mental" crowd uses this to their advantage by denouncing as hypocrites anyone who so much as evaluates as being inappropriate (aha! judging!) nasty insults and personal attacks, er, judging by other Christians. As I've noted before, it's not at all clear to me that the biblical concept of judging equals either forming an opinion or personal-attacking and insulting.


You're referring to immature "Christians", of many ages. For an example of what a mature Christian sounds like, read LoveJoy's posts at the beginning of this thread and compare it to the squabbling raucousness of other "Christians" on this board.

TheFallenAngel
February 1st, 2008, 10:15 PM
When did God ever support the idea of juries?


Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?
-1 Corinthians 6:2-3

Above scripture says "judge the smallest matter", it does not say the smallest individuals. It's about judging actions and things not people.

The above scripture also said that the saints will judge the world. This does not point to judging individuals but judging the condition/state/order of the world. The world world refers to The underlying qualities which animate the world. - I Cor. 2:12 - the spirit of the world - I Cor. 3:19 - the wisdom of the world - I Cor. 7:31 - the way of the world - Titus 2:12 - the lusts of the world - II Pet. 1:4 - the corruption that is in the world - II Pet. 2:20 -the defilement of the world - I Jn. 2:15 - the things that are in the world

So again - we are not talking about judging individuals - not talking about judging the hearts of men. We are talking about judging things, situations, deeds, sins, actions, morality and order.

:Poly:

Quasar1011
February 2nd, 2008, 01:31 PM
We shall judge angels? Righteous angels seemingly need no judge. But fallen angels?

Deuteronomy 19:15
One witness is not enough to convict a man accused of any crime or offense he may have committed. A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.

Matthew 18:16
"But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'"

2nd Corinthians 13:1
This will be my third visit to you. "Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses."

It appears, perhaps, that God will not send any demons to their eternal destiny, without first calling 2 or 3 saints against them as witnesses. You mean that demon that's been bugging me, I get to testify against him at his trial? :banana:

Lighthouse
February 2nd, 2008, 03:02 PM
Above scripture says "judge the smallest matter", it does not say the smallest individuals. It's about judging actions and things not people.

The above scripture also said that the saints will judge the world. This does not point to judging individuals but judging the condition/state/order of the world. The world world refers to The underlying qualities which animate the world. - I Cor. 2:12 - the spirit of the world - I Cor. 3:19 - the wisdom of the world - I Cor. 7:31 - the way of the world - Titus 2:12 - the lusts of the world - II Pet. 1:4 - the corruption that is in the world - II Pet. 2:20 -the defilement of the world - I Jn. 2:15 - the things that are in the world

So again - we are not talking about judging individuals - not talking about judging the hearts of men. We are talking about judging things, situations, deeds, sins, actions, morality and order.

:Poly:

If we are worthy to judge the smallest matters we are worthy to judge larger matters. And if we are worthy to judge the largest matters, we are worthy to judge people, and their hearts. We judge their hearts by the words they speak.

Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
-Matthew 12:34

A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.
-Luke 6:45