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Tatie
April 29th, 2004, 09:08 AM
Is illness from the Devil, or can God make you sick?

Melody
April 29th, 2004, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by Tatie

Is illness from the Devil, or can God make you sick?

Because of the fall.

Sometimes it is because of our own neglect of our bodies. We all know that we need Proper nutrition, rest, exercise etc....

beanieboy
April 29th, 2004, 09:16 AM
I believe that illness is a blessing.

It is usually a sign that you aren't taking care of yourself.
If you are feeling lathargic, it is usually because your body isn't getting enough exercise, you aren't getting enough rest and sleep, or you are eating badly.

The body has it's own language. If you listen to it, it will tell you what you need to do.

Hopefully, when you get a cold, you will learn not to overextend yourself.

As for terminal illnesses, I think they simply happen.

smaller
April 29th, 2004, 09:20 AM
We are all bound in various ways with corruption, weakness, and humility...

It is no ones FAULT. God has PURPOSES in ALL THINGS.

It is right that those who are to inherit ETERNITY taste the things above.

1 Cor. 15, entire chapter.

An expression I once heard that is not too funny but kinda true...

Good health is just the slowest possible form of death...

go figure...

Tatie
April 29th, 2004, 09:20 AM
Many preach illness is spiritually based caused by demons due to sin.

Poly
April 29th, 2004, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by Tatie

Many preach illness is spiritually based caused by demons due to sin.

John 9:1-3
Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. 2And His disciples asked Him, saying, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
3Jesus answered, "Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him."

smaller
April 29th, 2004, 09:25 AM
Sin is OF THE DEVIL

ALL have sin

All have sinned

Sin is NOT PEOPLE nor is it OF PEOPLE, but OF THE DEVIL.

The place of occupancy of sin is the flesh of mankind. These "things" cannot be SEEN, yet Jesus talked to them and cast them out of people continually...

Yet all these peoples BODIES STILL DIED.

Our "hope" is for the Body that is NOT THEIR SUBJECTS. At this point we, like Paul, in our flesh serve the LAW OF SIN.

Our minds are quite another subject....

There is an interesting post on the subject of WHY MANkind cannot sin here in this forum:

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11376

Tatie
April 29th, 2004, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by Poly

John 9:1-3
Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. 2And His disciples asked Him, saying, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
3Jesus answered, "Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him."

This is the only verse that says that sickness is to glorify God when Jesus healed him. So I guess people get sick so they can healed so God can be glorified? And are all that way?

Exo 15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken, to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none, of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.

2Ch 21:18 And after all this the LORD smote him in his bowels with an incurable disease.

Ya'nar#1
April 29th, 2004, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by Tatie

This is the only verse that says that sickness is to glorify God when Jesus healed him. So I guess people get sick so they can healed so God can be glorified? And are all that way?

Exo 15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken, to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none, of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.

2Ch 21:18 And after all this the LORD smote him in his bowels with an incurable disease.


Dear Tatie,

Disease is a direct result of the malignancy of sin that is in the world. And sin is a result of disobedience, which was (and is) inspired by Satan.

God is not responsible for disease--even though some Bible texts read as though God "causes" disease. To say God causes disease is to say that God is responsible for promoting sin and death in the world.

He isn't.

What these texts are intending to say is this: God is not only our Creator, He is also our Protector and Sustainer. When He withdraws His protecting hand from us, because we have turned out backs on Him by living out of harmony with His will, then we become subject to the power of the devil, who will surely come in to harm us. And if the devil is not directly responsible, then simply the condition of sin in the earth is enough--without God's protection--to bring about disease. To cause immune systems to break down; to trigger receptor sites on our DNA, that in turn promote the growth of cancer cells.

Tatie, God is NOT responsible for your disease. It is true, that when we live in harmony with God's will in this world, that disease finds it more difficult to take root in us.

Jesus said to the man who had an infirmity 38 years who He had healed,

JOHN 5:14
"Behold, thou art made whole: SIN NO MORE, lest a worse thing come unto thee."

Disease is a result of sin in the world, and sometimes it is even a result of our own personal sin of not living a healthy life, in harmony with God's will. But God doesn't bring disease. As Jesus showed in His ministry, God brings HEALING.

We should be very careful not to attribute to God those things Satan are responsible for, simply because the Bible writers and interpreters chose their words poorly.

And how have you been feeling lately?

May God Bless!

--Ya'nar :Princess:

smaller
April 29th, 2004, 10:37 AM
Yanar your premise is absurd.

God Himself CONTROLS ALL THINGS. ALL THINGS serve Him. He is GLORIFIED in ALL THINGS because the end result is GREATER than anything we can in our current state imagine and HE IS ABLE AND GREATER to WIPE AWAY every tear from EVERY face.

Cyrus of Persia
April 29th, 2004, 11:35 AM
As we can see we cannot have unified picture about it from the Bible. While in some passages we can see that God is sending disease, from some others we can find that it's actually devil. So finally it's up to each other, and certain church how they believe about the matter.

Still we can pray for being healed. And even if we die being sick, we are still uncapable to see maybe it served some higher purpose. Or maybe not. But in the light of eternal life Eartly life is nothing anyway.

billwald
April 29th, 2004, 11:41 AM
Jesus only healed people when the event would make an interesting object lesson for the Bible?

Jesus could have healed everyone in the world, but he didn't.

smaller
April 29th, 2004, 01:04 PM
Too many "believers" think that this temporal life is ALL ABOUT US.

Jesus called this a WICKED and EVIL generation.

He and other writers speak of TRIALS and JUDGMENTS/VERDICTS and SENTENCES. There is A SUPREME JUDGE to reside over ALL of these matters.

There is much more going on in THIS TEMPORAL LIFE than what meets the casual eye.

Colossians 2
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Who are these POWERS AND PRINCIPALITIES???

Ephesians 3
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

So DO I KNOW how God will use THESE THINGS to PROVE HIS GLORY???

No I do not. It has only borne in me HOPE. If I could SEE that for which I HOPE FOR, then HOPE goes away. It is no longer any use.

But we know that what is to come for US ALL has not yet entered into our imaginations, and this is a GOOD thing.

Jesus Christ has LED CAPTIVITY (us) captive. He has TRIUMPHED OVER "them."

The time of revealing of what this IS has not yet come. The trial of this wicked and evil age continues until SIN BECOMES UTTERLY SINFUL. This is what SICKNESS is of. Sin's working in men, but it IS NOT MEN who do this work nor are MEN the reason for this happening to ANYONE.

God has PURPOSES in ALL THINGS and in the final analysis HE OVERCOMES by His Abounding Glory for US ALL.

Job 14:14
If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

1 Samuel 2:6
The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.

Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

Matthew 24:9
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

The ALL NATIONS that YOU are hated by are THE INVISIBLE NATIONS of SATAN and his messengers THAT CANNOT BE SEEN.

They detest ALL MEN because MEN have GOD'S GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE. They DO NOT.

These verses have always fascinated me because on the surface they do NOT MAKE SENSE:

Luke 21
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

How is it that one could be PUT TO DEATH yet not a HAIR ON YOUR HEAD PERISH???

ALL MEN RISE to their FATHER!

enjoy!

smaller

philosophizer
April 29th, 2004, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by Tatie

Is illness from the Devil, or can God make you sick?

I think it usually comes from little tiny things called germs. :vomit:

servent101
April 29th, 2004, 02:01 PM
Taitie
Is illness from the Devil, or can God make you sick?

People and the attitude they have is a major factor in the illnesses that we come in contact with - the immune system and it's ability to fight off disease is directly related with the attitudes that we carry around with us.

With Christ's Love

Servent101

theo_victis
April 29th, 2004, 03:02 PM
LOL that was what i was thinking!

Ecumenicist
April 29th, 2004, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by Tatie

Is illness from the Devil, or can God make you sick?

ITs from the Devil.

There's a Spiritual dimension to everything.

That which creates, builds up, loves, grows, is of God.

That which breaks down, hurts, kills, harms, is of Satan.

God doesn't make people sick, but God does allow it
to happen as part of the whole free will thing, which applies
not only to humanity but to the entire universe.

Hence, the devil is doing God's Will, which especially
frustrates him...
:devil:

Dave

Freak
April 29th, 2004, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by Poly

John 9:1-3
Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. 2And His disciples asked Him, saying, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
3Jesus answered, "Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him."

Please balance that with this:

On a Sabbath Jesus was teaching in one of the synagogues, and a woman was there who had been crippled by a spirit for eighteen years. She was bent over and could not straighten up at all. When Jesus saw her, he called her forward and said to her, "Woman, you are set free from your infirmity." Then he put his hands on her, and immediately she straightened up and praised God.

Sometimes demons do bring afflictions to ones body...refer to Luke 13.

BillyBob
April 29th, 2004, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Tatie

Is illness from the Devil, or can God make you sick?


I am sick of Liberals, so I guess illness comes from the Devil. :freak:

Tatie
April 29th, 2004, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by Freak

Please balance that with this:

On a Sabbath Jesus was teaching in one of the synagogues, and a woman was there who had been crippled by a spirit for eighteen years. She was bent over and could not straighten up at all. When Jesus saw her, he called her forward and said to her, "Woman, you are set free from your infirmity." Then he put his hands on her, and immediately she straightened up and praised God.

Sometimes demons do bring afflictions to ones body...refer to Luke 13.

Yes, this is very important. Jesus and the apostles casted out demons and healed the sick, now no one believes in demons causing ilnesses. Maybe that's why we don't get healed.

Freak
April 29th, 2004, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by Tatie

Yes, this is very important. Jesus and the apostles casted out demons and healed the sick, now no one believes in demons causing ilnesses. Maybe that's why we don't get healed. And the apostle Paul was afflicted by a demon and the Lord would not take it away...

To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness."

Tatie
April 29th, 2004, 07:39 PM
So sometimes the Lord doesn't take the demons away?

theo_victis
April 29th, 2004, 07:49 PM
sometimes God actually gives people evil spirits.... look at saul in 1 samuel... i believe it is in chapter 18. God gives saul an evil spirit.

smaller
April 29th, 2004, 10:01 PM
The path of each persons life is directed by God Himself. No one will be able to say to Him, WHY did you DO such and such to ME?

Each member of the human race has SPECIFIC PURPOSE designed by God and THEY WILL FULFILL whatever SPECIFIC PURPOSE God has placed before them.

Is the aborted baby shortchanged? The BLIND? The DISEASED?

No. Never.

The end of ALL OF THIS temporal life is the DEATH OF THE TEMPORAL BODY and ALL of it's ways are VANITY and SUBJECTIVITY.

...the JUDGMENT to come is for the WORKS OF SIN (sin is OF THE DEVIL) that were PERPETRATED in the TEMPORAL BODY of every person.

ALL the shortcomings of THIS LIFE will be SWALLOWED WHOLE BY ETERNAL LIFE. Death will be SWALLOWED UP in VICTORY. Death will have NO STING.

ALL the shortcomings in this life are NO PERSONS FAULT and there is NO PERSON TO BLAME, least of all YOURSELF.

The things we suffer in this life are not EVEN worthy to be compared to what awaits US ALL.

firechyld
April 30th, 2004, 12:02 AM
Intriguing...

So... if illness occurs because of sin, where did micro-organisms come from? Did "God" create them when he created all other life? Did they pop into existance when Eve bit the apple?

Yorzhik
April 30th, 2004, 12:48 AM
Sigh. God did not want us to suffer from broken bodies in the beginning, but we broke our relationship with Him in the garden, so now we are on our own (physically).

God, for the most part, from the garden on has let things run (and they go downhill, unfortunately). Even if you add up all the people that were healed via miracle, the number is statistically insignificant.

So, illness is, for all practical purposes, not from the devil, not from God, and simply the result of a bunch of chemical reactions (in a very loose way).

Sometimes a sickness is just a sickness.

OMEGA
April 30th, 2004, 12:55 AM
Is illness from the Devil, or can God make you sick?
-----------------------------------------------------

All sickness comes from Gerald and Billybob's bad Jokes .

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seriously though, most sickness are either from an airborne Virus

or from Food Poisoning caused by Insecticide, Animal Hormones

and Animal Medication or a lack of certain vitamins and minerals

in your diet.

God allows man to get sick to know his dependence on God for his

very life . Satan leads man to Polute his environment so that we

breathe foul air and drink poisoned water and thus destroy our

immune system and become ill .

firechyld
April 30th, 2004, 01:40 AM
Post #26 of 27
Sigh. God did not want us to suffer from broken bodies in the beginning, but we broke our relationship with Him in the garden, so now we are on our own (physically).

God, for the most part, from the garden on has let things run (and they go downhill, unfortunately). Even if you add up all the people that were healed via miracle, the number is statistically insignificant.

So, illness is, for all practical purposes, not from the devil, not from God, and simply the result of a bunch of chemical reactions (in a very loose way).

Sometimes a sickness is just a sickness.




Were there micro organisms in the garden?

Mr. 5020
April 30th, 2004, 01:44 AM
Originally posted by philosophizer

I think it usually comes from little tiny things called germs. :vomit:

I agree with Philo here. I think illnesses are not nearly as spiritual as we make them out to be.

There are exceptions, of course...

Melody
April 30th, 2004, 05:15 AM
Originally posted by Mr. 5020

I agree with Philo here. I think illnesses are not nearly as spiritual as we make them out to be.

There are exceptions, of course...

90 % of the people that are in hospitals are there because of drug(including alchohol) or tobacco abuse.

God created viruses and bacteria, but he also created a marvelous immune system. When we damage and abuse our bodies that immune system is compromised and most illnesses are caused by bacteria that we carry in our bodies all the time.

Our emotional state also has an effect on our immune system. Carrying anger and bitterness will have an effect on our health.
The scripture tells us that taking communion unworthily will lead to illness or death. Does that mean that there is a 'curse' on taking communion? No, it means that if you don't seek and give forgiveness as is instructed then guilt and bitterness will eat us alive.

Freak
April 30th, 2004, 05:22 AM
Originally posted by Tatie

So sometimes the Lord doesn't take the demons away? Sometimes He uses them, like in Paul's case.

Freak
April 30th, 2004, 05:25 AM
Originally posted by Yorzhik


Sometimes a sickness is just a sickness. I agree but sometimes it a demon...

On a Sabbath Jesus was teaching in one of the synagogues, and a woman was there who had been crippled by a spirit for eighteen years. She was bent over and could not straighten up at all. When Jesus saw her, he called her forward and said to her, "Woman, you are set free from your infirmity." Then he put his hands on her, and immediately she straightened up and praised God.

philosophizer
April 30th, 2004, 06:39 AM
Originally posted by firechyld

Intriguing...

So... if illness occurs because of sin, where did micro-organisms come from? Did "God" create them when he created all other life? Did they pop into existance when Eve bit the apple?


Considering that not all micro-organisms are harmful, it's possible that only beneficial micro-organisms existed prior to the fall. But through the course of all things afterward, some became harmful. After all, it is also believed that there were no carnivorous animals until after the flood.

Just a theory, though.

On Fire
April 30th, 2004, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by Melody

90 % of the people that are in hospitals are there because of drug(including alchohol) or tobacco abuse.

God created viruses and bacteria, but he also created a marvelous immune system. When we damage and abuse our bodies that immune system is compromised and most illnesses are caused by bacteria that we carry in our bodies all the time.

Our emotional state also has an effect on our immune system. Carrying anger and bitterness will have an effect on our health.
The scripture tells us that taking communion unworthily will lead to illness or death. Does that mean that there is a 'curse' on taking communion? No, it means that if you don't seek and give forgiveness as is instructed then guilt and bitterness will eat us alive.

Bravo!

smaller
April 30th, 2004, 07:42 AM
Most of you want to FIND BLAME.

Blame men

Blame God

Blame the devil

Blame the fall, etc.

Is it so hard to understand that ALL THINGS serve GOD and PUT BLAME AWAY?

BLAME is the evidence of the ACCUSER of OTHERS upon us that controls nearly ALL of us.

It is GOD who has put us under the YOKE OF BLAME but I do not BLAME HIM but TRUST that He is ABLE and knows what He is doing.

Tatie
April 30th, 2004, 08:27 AM
I am not looking for blame. I am looking for a cause, it can help me to deal with an illness. For example if all illness is from the devil due to sin, then I can confess all my sins and have the demons casted out. If it's from God, then I will have to endure and prepare for the funeral and say It's God's will. If it's "just an illness", then I will go the doctor and take anything he has to offfer.

What do you think this verse means:

2Ch 16:12 And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease was exceeding great: yet in his disease he sought not to the LORD, but to the physicians.

I am beginning to believe that all illness is spiritually caused.

Cyrus of Persia
April 30th, 2004, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by Tatie

If it's "just an illness", then I will go the doctor and take anything he has to offfer.



Why dont you use this option no matter from where your illness comes? I dont think that God will be mad at you if you try to get healed one way, or another.

I see no one time where Jesus tells somebody who is looking for healing: "Go and live with your sickness, because it's what God is planning for you". He didnt healed all sick in Israel. But He never told to anybody either that he/she should bear his/her sickness and not to seek for healing.

smaller
April 30th, 2004, 08:56 AM
Greetings Tatie

I have been following your threads with interest for awhile now and understand (in a very small way) your situation.

I am not saying this will cure you, but in "christianity" there is a prevailing view that God will torture the majority of mankind for eternity.

This is the GREATEST SIN and the GREATEST HATRED that could EVER capture a persons heart.

SO seek your Divine Dr. on this matter if you want to "confess" and if nothing else you may experience GOD'S DIVINE LOVE to ALL people.

The Greatest Blessing ever bestowed, illness or no illness.

Light is meant to shine from darkness....

enjoy!

smaller

smaller
April 30th, 2004, 09:47 AM
?

Yorzhik
April 30th, 2004, 12:09 PM
In response to firechyld, my answer is the same as philo's:


Considering that not all micro-organisms are harmful, it's possible that only beneficial micro-organisms existed prior to the fall. But through the course of all things afterward, some became harmful. After all, it is also believed that there were no carnivorous animals until after the flood.

Just a theory, though.

Freak
April 30th, 2004, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by Yorzhik

In response to firechyld, my answer is the same as philo's: Do you think, at times, demons cause afflictions?

Lovejoy
April 30th, 2004, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by firechyld

Were there micro organisms in the garden?

Interesting....

I believe that their were. My image of both the garden and the future paradise is a place where everything lives in a heightened harmony, not the kill of be killed balance we have now. I think that there were no pathenogenic micros (which are a very small percetage of micros) back then, and I don't think they will be in the next earth either. Either that, or immunological functions were different.

I actually talked about this a little on a different eden/fall thread. The same things occured to me, such as: how did telomeres work in a perfect body, if there were no micros how did digestion function, etc.

Also, since homeostatic regulation functions pass through the same part of the brain as the limbic system, our emotions affect our health. Being in Gods constant presence and grace must of been a huge immunological advantage for Adam and Eve. (there is a little irony in the tone of that statement, I am not entirely crazy).

Lovejoy
April 30th, 2004, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by philosophizer

Considering that not all micro-organisms are harmful, it's possible that only beneficial micro-organisms existed prior to the fall. But through the course of all things afterward, some became harmful. After all, it is also believed that there were no carnivorous animals until after the flood.

Just a theory, though.

Agreed. However, since many pathenogenic bacteria are also healthy or normal bacteria (like E. coli), I think the Lord also had a different means of controlling their growth and adaptation (like maybe those things did not even happen). No Archaeans behave as pathogens, so they would have been fine.

Sadly, this all falls back on the arguments of whether or not entropy existed in Eden, etc, and gets really trite, really fast. Kinda fun, though.

Ecumenicist
April 30th, 2004, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Tatie

I am not looking for blame. I am looking for a cause, it can help me to deal with an illness. For example if all illness is from the devil due to sin, then I can confess all my sins and have the demons casted out. If it's from God, then I will have to endure and prepare for the funeral and say It's God's will. If it's "just an illness", then I will go the doctor and take anything he has to offfer.

What do you think this verse means:

2Ch 16:12 And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease was exceeding great: yet in his disease he sought not to the LORD, but to the physicians.

I am beginning to believe that all illness is spiritually caused.

Tatie,

Its not one or the other, physical or emotional or Spiritual. There
are multiple dimensions to sin and sickness.

The best approach to healing is to approach the whole problem
wholistically, with physicians, with prayer, with positive
attitude.

I highly highly recommend a book called "Healing and the Mind"
compiled / edited by Bill Moyers.

Dave

smaller
April 30th, 2004, 06:04 PM
As one who has been surrounded by death the last few years, sometimes it just does not matter one bit.

1 Corinthians 3:22
Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's;

We will all take what is OURS in this matter.

OMEGA
April 30th, 2004, 10:29 PM
Our Loving God gave us Responsibility for our bodies

and we should take care of them by a good multivitamin

and not eating PORK, Lobster, Clams , Catfish etc. which cause

sickness in the body. Too many people eat food which God did

not intend for them to eat. God cares for us and wants us to be

healthy . That is why God gave those food restrictions

to the Israelites.

Yorzhik
May 1st, 2004, 02:29 AM
I'd say that might be a common conclusion, but God did not create these rules in a vacuum. We should understand the details of the restrictions and act accordingly.

Cyrus of Persia
May 1st, 2004, 07:14 AM
Originally posted by OMEGA

Our Loving God gave us Responsibility for our bodies

and we should take care of them by a good multivitamin

and not eating PORK, Lobster, Clams , Catfish etc. which cause

sickness in the body. Too many people eat food which God did

not intend for them to eat. God cares for us and wants us to be

healthy . That is why God gave those food restrictions

to the Israelites.

God called ALL meat pure in NT. If you say that eating pork causes sicness, but eating cow does not, then at first you should compare those 2 groups (pork-eaters and cow-eaters) and look who is less sick. I dont think that Adventists are less sick that other Christians. What helps them to live healthier life is that they use to be more focused on healthy eating (eat more vegetables, drink more water, etc) than other Christians IMO.

Ya'nar#1
May 1st, 2004, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by theo_victis

sometimes God actually gives people evil spirits.... look at saul in 1 samuel... i believe it is in chapter 18. God gives saul an evil spirit.

theo, hello again!

Let's think about this.

Did God "give" King Saul an evil spirit, as scripture says? Or did God simply remove his protective hand from Saul, allowing the devil to do what he does best?

Sometimes faith means NOT believing scripture. The exact wording of scripture is not divinely inspired. Prophets receive divine inspiration, not in words, but in images, and impressions made on their minds (non-visual). Then they put into words those things they see. And their words depend to a big extent on their education and experience.

So, how do you KNOW whether you can trust the words contained in scripture? Well, one way is this: ask yourself, how well do you know God? If you love and completely trust God, and have faith that only good comes from God, as witnessed in the life of Jesus, who did no "evil," and who came here to "show us the Father," --then to hear that God sent Saul an "evil spirit" should make you doubt scripture.

Question: Does this idea that God did "evil" stand up against the vast store of information contained in the Bible? Does it make sense, in light of the fact that Jesus did no evil on earth, and that He came here to show us our Father in heaven?

A WORD ABOUT PROPHETS

If prophets received words from God, then all the Bible would sound the same. It would all be written in one voice. But it isn't! Clearly, those things Moses wrote are vastly different than Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Daniel. Not to mention Paul and James in the NT.

I don't believe God is capable of doing evil. Whatever small amount of scripture we dredge up that suggests this is probably do more to unfortunate translations of the original text. Either way, however, I believe in my heart that I "know" God. Therefore, I love and trust Him above all else--even scripture, when it doesn't jive with who I believe God is.

May God Bless!

--Ya'nar :Princess:

smaller
May 1st, 2004, 10:30 AM
Sometimes faith means NOT believing scripture. The exact wording of scripture is not divinely inspired.

I'm sorry but this is about the dumbest statement I have seen posted outside of Leo.

Tatie
May 1st, 2004, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by Dave Miller

Tatie,

Its not one or the other, physical or emotional or Spiritual. There
are multiple dimensions to sin and sickness.

The best approach to healing is to approach the whole problem
wholistically, with physicians, with prayer, with positive
attitude.

I highly highly recommend a book called "Healing and the Mind"
compiled / edited by Bill Moyers.

Dave

Thank you, I will look at it. I read a lot about body-mind connection and none of them mentioned spirit. I don't want the mind to heal me, I want God to heal me. Am I wrong?

Cyrus of Persia
May 1st, 2004, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by smaller

I'm sorry but this is about the dumbest statement I have seen posted outside of Leo.

Are you into verbal inspiration thingie?

smaller
May 1st, 2004, 02:42 PM
If I did not think that God Himself spoke directly THROUGH the writers who SAY "thus saith The Lord" I would not be interested in it's presentations.

...and yes it is ignorant to adhere to the text and then say NOT TO FOLLOW IT by "faith."

Cyrus of Persia
May 1st, 2004, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by smaller

If I did not think that God Himself spoke directly THROUGH the writers who SAY "thus saith The Lord" I would not be interested in it's presentations.

...and yes it is ignorant to adhere to the text and then say NOT TO FOLLOW IT by "faith."

Not all the Bible writers are writing in style "thus saith The Lord". What about them?

How do you explain that there are different ancient manuscripts where in one some words are changed, or missing compared to other?

Ecumenicist
May 1st, 2004, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by Tatie

Thank you, I will look at it. I read a lot about body-mind connection and none of them mentioned spirit. I don't want the mind to heal me, I want God to heal me. Am I wrong?

No, you're not wrong. Again there's a duality to everything.
Secularists will read it and say that the mind has the ability
to convince itself to heal. Spiritual people read it and say
"yeah, well duh, its the Holy Spirit." Either way the book
is about prayer and meditation and the connections with
healing...

Dave

Tatie
May 1st, 2004, 04:04 PM
The Spirit is not the mind. It controls the mind. So why not deal with the Spirit and it would take care of the mind and body? But if you say it's about prayer, I will read it.

smaller
May 1st, 2004, 04:44 PM
Peace CoP



Not all the Bible writers are writing in style "thus saith The Lord". What about them?

Not meaning to sidetrack the thread, but other writers words take their place on the scale by being LESS THAN God or Christ's direct Words. Paul never made any THUS SAYS THE LORD quotes. He did recount how the Lord spoke to him and directed him and taught him. He bore the "signs" of an Apostle which means he spoke with confirmed authority, but Paul himself admittedly spoke in part and from darkness. God's direct Words bear no PART or DARKNESS positions.


How do you explain that there are different ancient manuscripts where in one some words are changed, or missing compared to other?

You can travel to Israel today and SEE the actual handwriting of ISAIAH. I do not see the "accepted text" as much "variable" except in recent re-writes where there is obvious corruption and slanting.

I also accept other texts such as some psuedopigrapha as containing some God's Direct quotes but because of various factors they are counted out. Using the Priority System keeps one on track...God and Christ's Word's above ALL ELSE, then every other man's words including yours and mine in their proper place.

enjoy!

smaller

Ya'nar#1
May 1st, 2004, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by smaller

I'm sorry but this is about the dumbest statement I have seen posted outside of Leo.


Obviously you didn't bother to read what I meant by this. It is unfortunate that you always seem to be looking for something to criticise, without being willing to FIRST read my explanation.

OMEGA
May 1st, 2004, 08:59 PM
Yanar,

That is Smaller's Mission in Life not to understand your posts.

Is it any wonder that in trying to Represent God's Word,

Smaller fails to follow Paul's Adomonition in how to Relate

to others

ICor 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,)that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
23 And this I do for the gospelís sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

smaller
May 2nd, 2004, 08:05 AM
let's see...yanar says

"Do not believe The Word by faith????"

hmmmm????

Nope, it's still a stupid remark. I don't care how much word you throw at it.

OMEGA
May 2nd, 2004, 11:11 AM
Ah, now Smaller is not speaking in Parables anymore

and speaketh plainly. Now we do understand what he is saying.

Soon he may be going up into the Clouds.

smaller
May 2nd, 2004, 11:46 AM
We ALL will my friend, and such stooopidity will be left behind for judgment...

OMEGA
May 5th, 2004, 01:37 AM
Are you Referring to your Previous Post ?



Keep looking up .

and one Day you will see me in the Clouds.

yeshuaslavejeff
May 3rd, 2010, 02:43 PM
Our Loving God gave us Responsibility for our bodies

and we should take care of them by a good multivitamin

and not eating PORK, Lobster, Clams , Catfish etc. which cause

sickness in the body. Too many people eat food which God did

not intend for them to eat. God cares for us and wants us to be

healthy . That is why God gave those food restrictions

to the Israelites.


and now,
the us government will pay farmers to grow the poison crops
which have already killed the bees and most likely the butterflies
and more than they will ever admit.....

but
the us government will not pay farmers to grow good healthy food...

and
the us government (voted in officials)
will not allow the us industry to make fuel and plastic from plants,
which it was possible to do in the 1930s and 1940s
(so much so, that NOT ONE OIL WELL WAS ACTUALLY NEEDED - NOT ONE BARREL OF OIL WAS NEEDED FROM ANY WHERE !!!)
no
instead
billions upon billions upon billions are spent on ..... and on and on....