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DougE
January 6th, 2019, 02:23 PM
Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Some say that verse 6 above is saying that at one time, God saved people unto eternal life by their works, but now it is by grace. This is because the verse reads it is " no more of works", therefore, it used to be. I do not hold to this.

Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

In the verses above, the meaning of "no more of works" can be found. Paul is saying that Israel sought righteousness, not by faith, but by the works of the law. Romans 11:6 is saying, the election of grace is God's determination to save those that believe by faith; faith would be based on the propitiation of Jesus. Israel stumbled at the stumblingstone of Christ. The remnant attained righteousness by faith. This righteousness is by grace, not by works. The remnant did not attain righteousness by the works of the law.

Paul stated that all of Israel were not children of God by virture of being of the seed of Abraham; Israel is counted as being the children of God thru the promise God gave through Isaac.

Rebecca had two sons, Jacob and Esau, by Isaac; God elected to chose Jacob to make the covenant.

Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Election is God chosing how, and through whom, he will fulfill His purposes. God did not chose Jacob because he did good, and Esau did evil. The election of grace is not dependant on doing good or evil. The election is of grace. The election is not of works.

That is why Romans 11:6 says that it is "no more of works". The remnant attains righteousness by the election of grace. If the election is by grace, then it is no more of works. Grace has been chosen by God for righteousness. Works have been eliminated as a means of attaining righteousness.

comingfrom
January 6th, 2019, 05:43 PM
But if we are elected, then we will do His works?

And he that overcomes, and keeps My works unto the end,
to him will I give power over the nations:
Revelation 2:26

And, behold, I come quickly;
and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Revelation 22:12

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you always,
even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Matthew 28:20

Bless Jesus.

meshak
January 7th, 2019, 01:32 AM
But if we are elected, then we will do His works?

And he that overcomes, and keeps My works unto the end,
to him will I give power over the nations:
Revelation 2:26

And, behold, I come quickly;
and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Revelation 22:12

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you always,
even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Matthew 28:20

Bless Jesus.

they skip all simple word of Jesus teachings.

comingfrom
January 7th, 2019, 02:58 AM
Thank you, Meshak.

they skip all simple word of Jesus teachings.
Not all. :)

I had to do a lot of work [on me], before I could find Jesus.
I had to change my ways, stop swearing and drinking, and start reading the scripture and praying.
And scripture gave me so much to learn.
Like, What is holiness? And righteousness? that the Lord in scripture asks us to be.
It gave me a lot to work on.

And then, when the Lord came (Jesus comes), He opened my eyes to the first works.
Then the real work could begin.
And His commandments became my delight.
And His commandments are not grievous.

... to cut a long testimony short. :)
`Paul

God's Truth
January 7th, 2019, 03:53 AM
Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Some say that verse 6 above is saying that at one time, God saved people unto eternal life by their works, but now it is by grace. This is because the verse reads it is " no more of works", therefore, it used to be. I do not hold to this.

Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

In the verses above, the meaning of "no more of works" can be found. Paul is saying that Israel sought righteousness, not by faith, but by the works of the law. Romans 11:6 is saying, the election of grace is God's determination to save those that believe by faith; faith would be based on the propitiation of Jesus. Israel stumbled at the stumblingstone of Christ. The remnant attained righteousness by faith. This righteousness is by grace, not by works. The remnant did not attain righteousness by the works of the law.

Paul stated that all of Israel were not children of God by virture of being of the seed of Abraham; Israel is counted as being the children of God thru the promise God gave through Isaac.

Rebecca had two sons, Jacob and Esau, by Isaac; God elected to chose Jacob to make the covenant.

Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Election is God chosing how, and through whom, he will fulfill His purposes. God did not chose Jacob because he did good, and Esau did evil. The election of grace is not dependant on doing good or evil. The election is of grace. The election is not of works.

That is why Romans 11:6 says that it is "no more of works". The remnant attains righteousness by the election of grace. If the election is by grace, then it is no more of works. Grace has been chosen by God for righteousness. Works have been eliminated as a means of attaining righteousness.

Paul is saying no more of the works of the law that used to clean the people.

Now only faith that Jesus' blood cleans us of the sins we repent of doing.

We still have to obey Jesus; we just don't have to get circumcised and sacrifice animals.

Hawkins
January 7th, 2019, 11:01 AM
By the New Covenant, one will be judged by faith and faith alone on the judgment day. That's the point Paul was trying to make.

However, whether one's faith is the faith specified by the New Covenant can only be witnessed by the works. That's why faith without works is dead.

There are those whose deeds or works may not be well witnessed, including the handicapped or those died right after the conversion such as the thief on the cross. The judgment by Covenant is all up to Jesus. He can judge by what's in human hearts, thus He will give everyone a fair judgement even under the special circumstances that a person's deeds or works cannot be witnessed.

God's Truth
January 7th, 2019, 11:32 AM
Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone, see James.

We have to have faith and do something! Even the demons believe and do something. How much more are we than demons.

Even the thief did what we are told to do.

The thief on the cross humbled himself, feared God, believed in Jesus, admitted his sins, repented of his sins, confessed Jesus in front of others, and called on Jesus and showed that he will wait for the Lord.

comingfrom
January 7th, 2019, 03:30 PM
Thank you, DougE.


Paul is saying no more of the works of the law that used to clean the people.
I don't believe this.

I believe St Paul was saying to believe in Jesus, and to keep all God's words.
If your faith isn't in the word, then what is it in?
Carnal blood?


Now only faith that Jesus' blood cleans us of the sins we repent of doing.

Jesus is the word of God,
so the word is Jesus' flesh and blood.
God's word is what we must eat and drink, for life.


We still have to obey Jesus; we just don't have to get circumcised and sacrifice animals.
Again, Jesus the man was the word come in the flesh.
The living spirit Jesus is still God's word.

So circumcise your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
And bring your bullocks to the Lord, which you now bring before men.

If you can offer them up for us, why not offer them up to the Lord?

To the end that the children of Israel may bring their sacrifices, which they offer in the open field,
even that they may bring them unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation,
unto the Priest, and offer them for peace offerings unto the LORD.
Leviticus 17:5

God's Truth
January 7th, 2019, 06:00 PM
Thank you, DougE.


I don't believe this.

I believe St Paul was saying to believe in Jesus, and to keep all God's words.
If your faith isn't in the word, then what is it in?
Carnal blood?



Jesus is the word of God,
so the word is Jesus' flesh and blood.
God's word is what we must eat and drink, for life.


Again, Jesus the man was the word come in the flesh.
The living spirit Jesus is still God's word.

So circumcise your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
And bring your bullocks to the Lord, which you now bring before men.

If you can offer them up for us, why not offer them up to the Lord?

To the end that the children of Israel may bring their sacrifices, which they offer in the open field,
even that they may bring them unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation,
unto the Priest, and offer them for peace offerings unto the LORD.
Leviticus 17:5

You are wrong. We are not to sacrifice animals to God. Jesus is the Sacrificial Lamb of God once and for all.

P.S. I am not DougE.

DougE
January 7th, 2019, 06:03 PM
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Ephesians 1:7

We have forgiveness of all sin; not just sin we repent of.

We should repent of sin because we are dead in Christ, and should live unto Him; and because we have forgiveness.

clefty
January 7th, 2019, 07:44 PM
Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Some say that verse 6 above is saying that at one time, God saved people unto eternal life by their works, but now it is by grace. This is because the verse reads it is " no more of works", therefore, it used to be. I do not hold to this.

Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

In the verses above, the meaning of "no more of works" can be found. Paul is saying that Israel sought righteousness, not by faith, but by the works of the law. Romans 11:6 is saying, the election of grace is God's determination to save those that believe by faith; faith would be based on the propitiation of Jesus. Israel stumbled at the stumblingstone of Christ. The remnant attained righteousness by faith. This righteousness is by grace, not by works. The remnant did not attain righteousness by the works of the law.

Paul stated that all of Israel were not children of God by virture of being of the seed of Abraham; Israel is counted as being the children of God thru the promise God gave through Isaac.

Rebecca had two sons, Jacob and Esau, by Isaac; God elected to chose Jacob to make the covenant.

Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Election is God chosing how, and through whom, he will fulfill His purposes. God did not chose Jacob because he did good, and Esau did evil. The election of grace is not dependant on doing good or evil. The election is of grace. The election is not of works.

That is why Romans 11:6 says that it is "no more of works". The remnant attains righteousness by the election of grace. If the election is by grace, then it is no more of works. Grace has been chosen by God for righteousness. Works have been eliminated as a means of attaining righteousness.

Through out the OT it was never salvation by works...by FAITH...read Hebrews 11

The Hebrews were in fact saved not for what they did but for His covenant with their forefather Abraham...

They were saved by faith first...and THEN given the Law and works to do BECAUSE THEY WERE SAVED

That passover night they had faith first then obeyed a command to put blood on their doors...not one hebrew was asked if they were obedient to the laws they were not yet given...but by faith they were saved first and then given the laws...

If there are no more works or just works for special elect how come Acts 15 the crowding goyim were given 4 things to do in order to merely fellowship with the jews in the synagogue...

3 of these 4 were dietary laws already required of goyim even in the OT...

James concludes these goyim would then continue to hear the Law as Moses would continue to be read every Sabbath in every city...so these goyim would continue to hear what His people did...

And so the goyim were grafted INTO Israel and thus did as Israel does...JUST LIKE IN THE OT when it was ONE LAW for both native and goyim alike...in that church in the wilderness...

Faith first and then works...is not dead...If you love me...keep my commandments...

Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF Yahushua...

What faith did Yahushua have Buddhism? Muslim?...

comingfrom
January 7th, 2019, 09:22 PM
You are wrong. We are not to sacrifice animals to God. Jesus is the Sacrificial Lamb of God once and for all.

I never said to sacrifice animals to God.
But I believe we must offer our self up a suckling lamb (as Jesus did).
And we should bring Him our bullocks.

Else, how shall God impute His righteousness?

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit:
a broken and a contrite heart, O God, Thou wilt not despise.
Psalm 51:17

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God,
that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God,
which is your reasonable service.
Romans 12:1

As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
1 Peter 2:2-3

Praise Jesus.

God's Truth
January 7th, 2019, 09:30 PM
I never said to sacrifice animals to God.
But I believe we must offer our self up a suckling lamb (as Jesus did).
And we should bring Him our bullocks.

Else, how shall God impute His righteousness?

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit:
a broken and a contrite heart, O God, Thou wilt not despise.
Psalm 51:17

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God,
that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God,
which is your reasonable service.
Romans 12:1

As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
1 Peter 2:2-3

Praise Jesus.

You are the one who went against me for saying we don't have to clean ourselves by doing the old purification works of the law.

God's Truth
January 7th, 2019, 09:35 PM
Paul is saying no more of the works of the law that used to clean the people.


I don't believe this.


You said you don't believe it when I said Paul said no more works of the law that used to clean the people.

God's Truth
January 7th, 2019, 09:51 PM
Through out the OT it was never salvation by works...by FAITH...read Hebrews 11

The old law was NOT based on faith.

Galatians 3:12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, "The person who does these things will live by them."


The Hebrews were in fact saved not for what they did but for His covenant with their forefather Abraham...
Abraham had to get circumcised in the flesh.

The covenant that would be based on faith and not on circumcision was a promise for the future.




They were saved by faith first...and THEN given the Law and works to do BECAUSE THEY WERE SAVED

That passover night they had faith first then obeyed a command to put blood on their doors...not one hebrew was asked if they were obedient to the laws they were not yet given...but by faith they were saved first and then given the laws...

They all died in the desert and did NOT get to see the promised land because they did not obey.


Joshua 5:6 The Israelites had moved about in the wilderness forty years until all the men who were of military age when they left Egypt had died, since they had not obeyed the LORD. For the LORD had sworn to them that they would not see the land he had solemnly promised their ancestors to give us, a land flowing with milk and honey.



If there are no more works or just works for special elect how come Acts 15 the crowding goyim were given 4 things to do in order to merely fellowship with the jews in the synagogue...

3 of these 4 were dietary laws already required of goyim even in the OT...
Jesus told his disciples to do what the Pharisees and teachers of the law said because they sat in Moses seat. The temple was still standing and the Pharisees enforced the law.

Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples: 2“The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So practice and observe everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach





James concludes these goyim would then continue to hear the Law as Moses would continue to be read every Sabbath in every city...so these goyim would continue to hear what His people did...

And so the goyim were grafted INTO Israel and thus did as Israel does...JUST LIKE IN THE OT when it was ONE LAW for both native and goyim alike...in that church in the wilderness...

No uncircumcised person could go to the temple.





Faith first and then works...is not dead...If you love me...keep my commandments...
Faith alone is dead and is never the most important faith ever known, it is dead.

clefty
January 7th, 2019, 10:36 PM
The old law was NOT based on faith. right the faith was based on the law...have faith first and then the law to live that life of faith...


Galatians 3:12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, "The person who does these things will live by them." and who does them to live? Those who have the faith...duh



Abraham had to get circumcised in the flesh. he was chosen first and by faith ALLOWED himself to be circumcised...you really think circumcision SAVED? You are a judaizer indeed...that is exactly what they taught...how can something done to you on the 8th day SAVE YOU...is why we dont infant baptize...that is not a choice the infant makes but the parent for it...


The covenant that would be based on faith and not on circumcision was a promise for the future. future? they had faith they were of Abraham’s seed...thus signed into the covenant...and were saved from egypt




They all died in the desert and did NOT get to see the promised land they had faith and were saved from egypt...they LOST FAITH and disobeyed...NEVER WAS IT ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED...gotta keep faith ya dig?


because they did not obey. right and that because they did NOT have faith first so disobeyed...like Yahushua explained it’s not the swine meat going into the mouth that makes the man unclean but that already because he is already unclean inside he allows the swine meat to go into his mouth...got it?



Joshua 5:6 The Israelites had moved about in the wilderness forty years until all the men who were of military age when they left Egypt had died, since they had not obeyed the LORD. For the LORD had sworn to them that they would not see the land he had solemnly promised their ancestors to give us, a land flowing with milk and honey. yup obedience is works...faith compelled works...the roots give fruits...inspect the fruits know the roots...

Yup once saved ain’t no guarantee you are in buddy...persevere...overcome...hold fast...run the race...dont return to your vomit...stay true...keep the faith...retain the first love...




Jesus told his disciples to do what the Pharisees and teachers of the law said because they sat in Moses seat. The temple was still standing and the Pharisees enforced the law.

Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples: 2“The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So practice and observe everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach yup...if you love Him keep His commandments...it’s just not faith alone...faith and works is not dead...but following Him HIS WAY HIS WORKS...





No uncircumcised person could go to the temple. during that time the church was in the wilderness there wasnt even a temple...and only the priests could go into the tabernacle...and yet

“If an alien sojourns with you, or one who may be among you throughout your generations, and he wishes to make an offering by fire, as a soothing aroma to the LORD, JUST AS YOU DO SO SHALL HE DO” Numbers 15:14

Neat eh? Just think the church from the time of the wilderness was NEVER divided...ONE PEOPLE ONE LAW...by faith...still that way




Faith alone is dead and is never the most important faith ever known, it is dead.

That’s another gospel...different than the one Peter and Paul taught...which is faith IN HIM then works His Works...do this and live and NOW even after the first death..

comingfrom
January 7th, 2019, 10:36 PM
You are the one who went against me for saying we don't have to clean ourselves by doing the old purification works of the law.

I didn't go against you, I was defending myself from your statement,
which falsely implied I said to sacrifice animals.

I see that God's word says to do all the words of His law.

Gather the people together,
men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates,
that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God,
and observe to do all the words of this law:
Deuteronomy 31:12


Paul is saying no more of the works of the law that used to clean the people.
So many say.

That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing;
but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Ephesians 5:26-27


You said you don't believe it when I said Paul said no more works of the law that used to clean the people.
Many say Paul said this and that, so they end up not doing what Jesus said.
I chose to not go that way.

For circumcision verily profits, if thou keep the law:
but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
Romans 2:25

I don't want to be made unborn again. :)

God's Truth
January 7th, 2019, 11:33 PM
right the faith was based on the law...have faith first and then the law to live that life of faith...
No. There were Jews who had faith and Jews that did not have faith.
All the Jews had to do is the purification works of the law.


and who does them to live? Those who have the faith...duh

They did not all have faith. God said that He was going to make a new covenant based on faith. Don’t you know that before Jesus started his earthly ministry God cut off and hardened the Jews who did not already belong to him by faith?

God's Truth
January 7th, 2019, 11:42 PM
he was chosen first and by faith ALLOWED himself to be circumcised...you really think circumcision SAVED?
Obeying God is what saves.

Abraham believed and OBEYED God BEFORE the scripture speaking of Abraham's faith:

Genesis 12:1
Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you; 4 So Abram went, as the Lord had told him; and Lot went with him.

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.


And even after Abraham obeyed and had faith, his faith was TESTED.




You are a judaizer indeed...that is exactly what they taught...how can something done to you on the 8th day SAVE YOU...is why we dont infant baptize...that is not a choice the infant makes but the parent for it...

Why would you call me a judaizer when I say the purification works of the law doesn't save anymore? Why do you think that Moses’ wife circumcised their son?

God's Truth
January 8th, 2019, 12:13 AM
future? they had faith they were of Abraham’s seed...thus signed into the covenant...and were saved from Egypt

Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.


they had faith and were saved from egypt...they LOST FAITH and disobeyed...NEVER WAS IT ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED...gotta keep faith ya dig?
They didn’t have faith. They grumbled and complained.

Numbers 14:2 All the Israelites grumbled against Moses and Aaron, and the whole assembly said to them, "If only we had died in Egypt! Or in this wilderness!


right and that because they did NOT have faith first so disobeyed...like Yahushua explained it’s not the swine meat going into the mouth that makes the man unclean but that already because he is already unclean inside he allows the swine meat to go into his mouth...got it?
It is always about obeying God. It is about obeying God and whether He just says to not eat fruit from a certain tree, or to get circumcised, or to repent of your sins.

God's Truth
January 8th, 2019, 12:37 AM
yup obedience is works...faith compelled works...the roots give fruits...inspect the fruits know the roots...
You want to go against the scriptures that say the old law was not based on faith then so be it.



Yup once saved ain’t no guarantee you are in buddy...persevere...overcome...hold fast...run the race...dont return to your vomit...stay true...keep the faith...retain the first love...
Right; we have to keep obeying.



yup...if you love Him keep His commandments...it’s just not faith alone...faith and works is not dead...but following Him HIS WAY HIS WORKS...
Right; we have to have faith now, whereas the old law did not require it. All a person had to do in the old law was to do the purification works of the law and they would be made clean. God did not like that, but that is the way it was.



during that time the church was in the wilderness there wasnt even a temple...and only the priests could go into the tabernacle...and yet
The church in the wilderness, you say. Give the scripture.




“If an alien sojourns with you, or one who may be among you throughout your generations, and he wishes to make an offering by fire, as a soothing aroma to the LORD, JUST AS YOU DO SO SHALL HE DO” Numbers 15:14

Neat eh? Just think the church from the time of the wilderness was NEVER divided...ONE PEOPLE ONE LAW...by faith...still that way
The person had to get circumcised, and do various external washings, and adhere to a dietary law. That was the people cleaning themselves! Now no one has to clean themselves, they only have to have faith that Jesus’ shed blood on the cross cleans them.





That’s another gospel...different than the one Peter and Paul taught...which is faith IN HIM then works His Works...do this and live and NOW even after the first death..
No. Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone. Just believe the truth.

bibleverse2
January 8th, 2019, 12:43 AM
And, behold, I come quickly;
and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Revelation 22:12


Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

God's Truth
January 8th, 2019, 12:45 AM
I didn't go against you, I was defending myself from your statement,
which falsely implied I said to sacrifice animals.

I see that God's word says to do all the words of His law.

Gather the people together,
men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates,
that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God,
and observe to do all the words of this law:
Deuteronomy 31:12


So many say.

That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing;
but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Ephesians 5:26-27


Many say Paul said this and that, so they end up not doing what Jesus said.
I chose to not go that way.

For circumcision verily profits, if thou keep the law:
but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
Romans 2:25

I don't want to be made unborn again. :)

I gave that quote where you went against me for saying we don't have to do the purification works of the law anymore. The purification works of the law required circumcision of the flesh and sacrificing animals. You did go against me for it.

bibleverse2
January 8th, 2019, 01:02 AM
We still have to obey Jesus . . .

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

God's Truth
January 8th, 2019, 01:29 AM
Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

I am glad you agree.

bibleverse2
January 8th, 2019, 01:44 AM
I am glad you agree.

Yes, for:

Matthew 7:21 ¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

comingfrom
January 8th, 2019, 04:15 AM
I gave that quote where you went against me for saying we don't have to do the purification works of the law anymore. The purification works of the law required circumcision of the flesh and sacrificing animals. You did go against me for it.

I am not here to stand against the blood of my brother,
but I am here presenting my testimony, the blood which I received of Him.
Even as you do.

I believe, to do the law never required carnal interpretations of the commandments.
God is a spirit, and His law is spiritual, and so I interpret the commandments spiritually.
Circumcision is of the heart, and in spirit,
and the bullocks we are to offer unto God are our spirits.
That is how we cast out our devils, our false notions.

If we can offer our bull to one another,
can we not offer it unto the Lord?

And hear what He has to say, about the offerings we make for our fellows.
And about the offerings our fellows make for us.

Praise Lord.

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly;
and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter;
whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Romans 2:29

clefty
January 8th, 2019, 04:40 AM
No. There were Jews who had faith and Jews that did not have faith. the former obedient the latter less so...


All the Jews had to do is the purification works of the law. but not to be saved...they already were...now it was to learn MERCY rather than sacrifice...to learn to love AS HE LOVED THEM...how to remain a holy people sanctified and circumcised from the world...the purification rituals were to teach about what is holy and what is not...what is clean and what is not...about the calendar of Yah...that He is the creator who saved them...to exercise and practice faith...they ARE all shadows pointing to things to come... Paul writes...notice the present tense he uses not the past tense...and pointing still to things yet to be fulfilled...


They did not all have faith. God said that He was going to make a new covenant based on faith. ALL covenants are of faith...imagine if Adam and Eve had had enough faith...Noah had faith first was found blameless believed flood was coming then began to build...Abraham did nothing but believe and obey...


Don’t you know that before Jesus started his earthly ministry God cut off and hardened the Jews who did not already belong to him by faith? right and? Even Egyptians followed Him into the desert after watching Him defeat their gods...that was faith...and they were given the same law same blessing same promise

It remains faith first...not do works in order to be saved...

One doesnt marry to do what is lawful in order to fall in love...but because one is ALREADY IN LOVE they wish to do what is lawful and marry...

clefty
January 8th, 2019, 04:53 AM
Obeying God is what saves.

Abraham believed and OBEYED God BEFORE the scripture speaking of Abraham's faith:

Genesis 12:1
Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you; 4 So Abram went, as the Lord had told him; and Lot went with him.

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. you did notice how Abraham went when called?...BY FAITH...



And even after Abraham obeyed and had faith, his faith was TESTED. and he failed lying about Sarah...is why it is not ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED...it’s a lifetime race to run...a lifetime fight to fight...




Why would you call me a judaizer when I say the purification works of the law doesn't save anymore? Why do you think that Moses’ wife circumcised their son? Cuz she understood the faith came BEFORE the sign of that faith...circumcision represents the faith of the parents...now when the boy infant grows up he merely needs to accept who he is and WHOSE he is...and HONOR HIS PARENTS...

Judiazers taught new believers HAD to be saved by circumcision which was never taught...Judaizers demanded 1) that goyim HAD to be circumcised to travel with live with israel (and be saved from egypt) 2) that one HAD to be circumcised in order to be saved and not as a sign for being already saved...

They ascribed too much power to the act...that is idolatry...

Was meant to teach circumcision of the heart...a separateness from the world...mercy rather than sacrifice...

clefty
January 8th, 2019, 05:08 AM
Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. yes and already since Abraham’s time the gentiles were blesse by having His people amongst them...now the gentiles could see “For Yah so loved the world” not just His own but through them ALL...ALL should come worship...if they BELIEVED...that is had that faith...


They didn’t have faith. They grumbled and complained.

Numbers 14:2 All the Israelites grumbled against Moses and Aaron, and the whole assembly said to them, "If only we had died in Egypt! Or in this wilderness! they did more than Oy Vey! kvetching...they had faith in other gods in other ways of worship...not Him HIS WAY


It is always about obeying God. It is about obeying God and whether He just says to not eat fruit from a certain tree, or to get circumcised, or to repent of your sins.

Yes agreed and covered that already...all covenants are FAITH BASED...Adam DID NOTHING to be created...he was merely to have faith that he was created and by WHOM and then in gratitude obey the One having faith first...sadly he didnt have enough faith...

Remember it is NOT what enters the person that makes him unclean but that the person is ALREADY unclean inside that HE ALLOWS that which is unclean inside...

Lose the faith disobey...Who and to what extent you obey Him reveals the faith...you establish the law which reveals Him your faith in Him...is WHY we are to follow Him and DO AS HE DID...

Made in His image is more than just “look like Him”...but be like Him do as He did

Copy me as I copy Christ...by your fruits they know da roots...ya dig?

clefty
January 8th, 2019, 05:37 AM
You want to go against the scriptures that say the old law was not based on faith then so be it. THEY WERE GIVEN THE OLD LAW BECAUSE THEY HAD FAITH FIRST...saved from egypt without the law...they were NOW given the Law to reveal who they were...even the six day then rest sequence was demonstrated first with the manna and then the Sabbath was given...



Right; we have to keep obeying. yup...and now what? which? why? whose? How? are the questions to be answered...answers include: the commandments, all or some, to become saved or because we are, Yah’s or man’s, blood letting or with our lips having learned mercy through His sacrifice



Right; we have to have faith now, whereas the old law did not require it. it was given to those who had it...faith was lost it is true but those that have it WANT to obey


All a person had to do in the old law was to do the purification works of the law and they would be made clean. God did not like that, but that is the way it was. yes clean and NOT thrown out of camp but NOT SAVED ETERNALLY and NOT a good representative of Him...as they lost their first love...

Is why the jew only had advantage but they are not superior...the law did not save them...nor did it remove sin...read Hebrews...



The church in the wilderness, you say. Give the scripture. Acts 7:38...and even then it was ONE LAW one people of faith then obedience...




The person had to get circumcised, and do various external washings, and adhere to a dietary law. That was the people cleaning themselves! Now no one has to clean themselves, they only have to have faith that Jesus’ shed blood on the cross cleans them. both methods produced fruits by which His people are known...for their faith first then obedience...inspect the fruit know the root...faith with works is not dead

His blood cleans daily and for the rest of one’s life...if they have faith and obey...daily

Now daily all nations will be blessed by faithfulness and obedience...as you establish His law because of His love for you...and your love for Him...a love JUST AS HE LOVED YOU...so no sunday ham dinners thank you...



No. Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone. Just believe the truth.

It remains:

FAITH IN HIM then obey and do works HIS WORKS...do this and live and NOW WITH FAITH IN HIM even after the first death...

truth is in one who obeys Him because they know Yah...that is faith

Peter was clear Yah gives the Holy Spirit to the ones who obey...to build their faith and guide in the way they should obey...daily

meshak
January 8th, 2019, 06:04 AM
Many say Paul said this and that, so they end up not doing what Jesus said.
I chose to not go that way.

Exactly. well said.

God's Truth
January 8th, 2019, 12:37 PM
Yes, for:

Matthew 7:21 ¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Right on.

God's Truth
January 8th, 2019, 12:46 PM
I am not here to stand against the blood of my brother,
but I am here presenting my testimony, the blood which I received of Him.
Even as you do.

I believe, to do the law never required carnal interpretations of the commandments.

Of course, the people had to literally do things with their flesh bodies.
They really had to bring real animals.
They really had to get circumcised in the flesh.
They really had to do various external baths after menstrual cycles, and men's secretions, and just sitting where someone sat who had such things.
They really had a dietary law where they had to eat a certain diet and cook a certain way.



God is a spirit, and His law is spiritual, and so I interpret the commandments spiritually.
Circumcision is of the heart, and in spirit,
and the bullocks we are to offer unto God are our spirits.
That is how we cast out our devils, our false notions.
Denying that the people really had to do physical things is not the truth.
The New Covenant is about what is spiritual. The Old Testament was about earthy things.

God's Truth
January 8th, 2019, 01:05 PM
the former obedient the latter less so...
but not to be saved...they already were...now it was to learn MERCY rather than sacrifice...to learn to love AS HE LOVED THEM...how to remain a holy people sanctified and circumcised from the world...the purification rituals were to teach about what is holy and what is not...what is clean and what is not...about the calendar of Yah...that He is the creator who saved them...to exercise and practice faith...they ARE all shadows pointing to things to come... Paul writes...notice the present tense he uses not the past tense...and pointing still to things yet to be fulfilled...
The people in the covenant with God HAD TO get circumcised in the flesh or they could NOT be called a child of God.

They HAD TO ATONE for their own sins!

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood thatmaketh an atonement for the soul.


The Gentiles did not do the things required to be in the covenant with God, and they were called ‘unclean’ people and ‘without’ God’ and ‘separate from the promises’.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,


ALL covenants are of faith..
No they are not. A baby boy eight days old was in the covenant after being circumcised.



.imagine if Adam and Eve had had enough faith...Noah had faith first was found blameless believed flood was coming then began to build...
Noah had faith AND OBEDIENCE.
In Noah’s time there was not the Law yet of circumcision.
However, it is ALWAYS about FAITH AND OBEDENCE.
But the old law WAS NOT BASED ON FAITH.




Abraham did nothing but believe and obey...

right and? Even Egyptians followed Him into the desert after watching Him defeat their gods...that was faith...and they were given the same law same blessing same promise

It remains faith first...not do works in order to be saved...
If you don’t obey, then your faith is worthless, it is DEAD.


One doesnt marry to do what is lawful in order to fall in love...but because one is ALREADY IN LOVE they wish to do what is lawful and marry...
If a person isn’t doing right, then it is NOT love, no matter how much they tell the person they say they want to marry that they love them.

God's Truth
January 8th, 2019, 01:17 PM
you did notice how Abraham went when called?...BY FAITH...
That is more proof that faith must accompany obedience.



and he failed lying about Sarah...is why it is not ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED...it’s a lifetime race to run...a lifetime fight to fight...
That is NOT when Abraham’s faith was tested. Abraham’s faith was tested when God asked him to sacrifice his son. Abraham was going to do that.

As for Abraham lying about Sarah, he didn’t really lie because Sarah was his sister.
Once saved always saved is possible if the person obeys and then repents when a mistake is made.



Cuz she understood the faith came BEFORE the sign of that faith...circumcision represents the faith of the parents...now when the boy infant grows up he merely needs to accept who he is and WHOSE he is...and HONOR HIS PARENTS...
Moses HAD TO DO WHAT GOD SAID or death would have happened.
Some believe that God was going to kill Moses, and others believe that God was going to take the baby’s life. EITHER PERSON, it is about obeying God.



Judiazers taught new believers HAD to be saved by circumcision which was never taught...Judaizers demanded 1) that goyim HAD to be circumcised to travel with live with israel (and be saved from egypt) 2) that one HAD to be circumcised in order to be saved and not as a sign for being already saved...

They ascribed too much power to the act...that is idolatry...

Was meant to teach circumcision of the heart...a separateness from the world...mercy rather than sacrifice...

God SAID to get circumcised in the flesh, and it had to be done.

genuineoriginal
January 8th, 2019, 01:20 PM
Election is God chosing how, and through whom, he will fulfill His purposes. God did not chose Jacob because he did good, and Esau did evil. The election of grace is not dependant on doing good or evil. The election is of grace. The election is not of works.

That is why Romans 11:6 says that it is "no more of works". The remnant attains righteousness by the election of grace. If the election is by grace, then it is no more of works. Grace has been chosen by God for righteousness. Works have been eliminated as a means of attaining righteousness.

God's Grace is not given to the unfaithful.

Luke 16:10-13
10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
12 And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?
13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

DougE
January 8th, 2019, 03:04 PM
God's grace is given to dead sinners who can not save themselves;

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. Romans 5:6

Luke 10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
12 And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?
13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

These above verses were spoken to Israel in regard to the coming kingdom on earth, over which Christ would rule as King, and faithful Israel would be given authority to reign in positions of authority.

comingfrom
January 8th, 2019, 03:50 PM
Thank you, GT.


Of course, the people had to literally do things with their flesh bodies.

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God,
that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God,
which is your reasonable service.
Romans 12:1


They really had to bring real animals.

For I spake not unto your fathers,
nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt,
concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
But this thing commanded I them, saying,
Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be My people:
and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
Jeremiah 7:22-23


They really had to get circumcised in the flesh.

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart,
and the heart of thy seed,
to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul,
that thou mayest live.
Deuteronomy 30:6


They really had to do various external baths after menstrual cycles, and men's secretions, and just sitting where someone sat who had such things.

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:
for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Romans 8:7


They really had a dietary law where they had to eat a certain diet and cook a certain way.

Whoso eats My flesh, and drinks My blood, hath eternal life;
and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:54

Jesus kept all the law. He fulfilled it perfectly.
Did we see Him advocating circumcision of the flesh? Sacrificing animals? Stoning sinners? Keeping times?
No we don't.
So keep the commandments as He kept them, and not as the carnally minded interpret them.

If ye keep My commandments, ye shall abide in My love;
even as I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love.
John 15:10

woodeneye
January 8th, 2019, 04:00 PM
God's grace is given to dead sinners who can not save themselves;

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. Romans 5:6

Luke 10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
12 And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?
13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

These above verses were spoken to Israel in regard to the coming kingdom on earth, over which Christ would rule as King, and faithful Israel would be given authority to reign in positions of authority.How do these verses apply to the heading " No more works "?

Sent from my SM-J727P using Tapatalk

comingfrom
January 8th, 2019, 04:09 PM
Oops, nearly a missed a bit. Sorry.


Denying that the people really had to do physical things is not the truth.

Read in the law daily, walk while you have the light, and pray.
These are the physical things the Lord requires of us.

It is the spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing:
the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
John 6:63


The New Covenant is about what is spiritual. The Old Testament was about earthy things.

So many do say.
But I believe Jesus is the Lord, and He is the word of God,
and He gave us the Father's law by Moses' hand.

Ye shall do My judgments, and keep Mine ordinances, to walk therein:
I am the LORD your God.
Ye shall therefore keep My statutes, and My judgments:
which if a man do, he shall live in them:
I am the LORD.
Leviticus 18:4-5

Praise the Lord.

comingfrom
January 8th, 2019, 05:07 PM
Men say a lot of things. (Look at Clefty go.)
They come in Jesus' name and speak as if they are Christ Himself.
And they really want us off God's words in the Old Testament.
Why?

I look to what God says, and He is telling me something different.
Something completely different to what many say.
He says to keep His words. Abide in them. Do His commandments. And His judgments. For ever.
And they are not carnal commandments, as men interpret them.
They refuse to look for the spiritual meaning.

Turn you at My reproof:
behold, I will pour out My spirit unto you,
I will make known My words unto you.
Proverbs 1:23

By this we know that we love the children of God,
when we love God, and keep His commandments.
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments:
and His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:2-3

genuineoriginal
January 8th, 2019, 05:16 PM
God's grace is given to dead sinners who can not save themselves;
God gives Grace to the living that please Him, not to dead sinners who do not please Him.

comingfrom
January 8th, 2019, 06:11 PM
For the LORD God is a sun and shield:
the LORD will give grace and glory:
no good thing will He withhold from them that walk uprightly.
Psalm 84:11

john w
January 8th, 2019, 06:15 PM
Denying that the people really had to do physical things is not the truth.
The New Covenant is about what is spiritual. The Old Testament was about earthy things.

Made up, false dichotomy. The opposite of spiritual, is not "earthly," as you assert.

bibleverse2
January 9th, 2019, 12:47 AM
. . . we have to have faith now, whereas the old law did not require it.

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

God's Truth
January 9th, 2019, 12:51 AM
Made up, false dichotomy. The opposite of spiritual, is not "earthly," as you assert.

The Old Testament was about earthy man, and earthly things. See Romans 7:4-6.
The New Testament is about the spiritual. See John 6:63.

The Old Testament was prophecies about what was coming. See Romans 16:26.
The New Testament is prophecies fulfilled, and revelations revealed about the spiritual. See Ephesians 6:19.

God's Truth
January 9th, 2019, 12:54 AM
Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

That is right. The law is not of faith. The new law is: Romans 3:27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith.

God's Truth
January 9th, 2019, 01:10 AM
For I spake not unto your fathers,
nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt,
concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
But this thing commanded I them, saying,
Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be My people:
and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
Jeremiah 7:22-23

You do not understand those scriptures.

You know there are many scriptures that show you that God commanded the sacrifice of animals.

Listen more carefully to those scriptures you posted…

On the day God brought the people out of Egypt, that day God did not command burnt offerings and sacrifices. That day God did not, BUT He did later.

God is telling them that He did tell them that day to obey and then He would be their God.

God's Truth
January 9th, 2019, 01:25 AM
And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart,
and the heart of thy seed,
to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul,
that thou mayest live.
Deuteronomy 30:6

They really had to get circumcised in the flesh too.

Do you really want me to post the many scriptures where God commands it?



Jesus kept all the law. He fulfilled it perfectly.
Did we see Him advocating circumcision of the flesh? Sacrificing animals? Stoning sinners? Keeping times?
No we don't.
So keep the commandments as He kept them, and not as the carnally minded interpret them.
Do you know what a New Covenant is?
God commanded those things that you are saying didn’t happen.
You are standing in judgment and making false judgments.

comingfrom
January 9th, 2019, 01:37 AM
They really had to get circumcised in the flesh too.

Do you really want me to post the many scriptures where God commands it?
If you like.
You need to do it for yourself.
You word is just your word, until you back it with God's words.


Do you know what a New Covenant is?

When Jesus came He made His covenant with me.
And He wrote God's law in my heart and mind.


God commanded those things that you are saying didn’t happen.
You are standing in judgment and making false judgments.

I did quote scriptures to back up my statements.
How much scripture do you need?

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart,
and be no more stiffnecked.
Deuteronomy 10:16

God's Truth
January 9th, 2019, 01:45 AM
If you like.
You need to do it for yourself.
I know I am saying what the Bible says, so I do not need to post it.



You word is just your word, until you back it with God's words.

That is not true.

You post your own words and quote scripture and still go against God.





When Jesus came He made His covenant with me.
And He wrote God's law in my heart and mind.
You are not supposed to lie about the Old Testament and say God didn't command circumcision of the flesh and the sacrifice of animals, etc.




I did quote scriptures to back up my statements.
How much scripture do you need?

You deny what God says.



Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart,
and be no more stiffnecked.
Deuteronomy 10:16

That scripture does not say God did not command circumcision.

bibleverse2
January 9th, 2019, 01:54 AM
That scripture does not say God did not command circumcision.

Also:

Galatians 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

God's Truth
January 9th, 2019, 01:59 AM
Also:

Galatians 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

That was after Jesus died, rose, and ascended.

comingfrom
January 9th, 2019, 02:00 AM
You do not understand those scriptures.

Thank you.
Therefore I pray Jesus to know the meanings.


You know there are many scriptures that show you that God commanded the sacrifice of animals.

That's your bullock.
I brought all my bullocks unto the Lord, and no animals were harmed in the process.
I also offered myself up a suckling lamb. Again no animals were harmed.
I spilled the blood of many of my fellows' bullocks, which they offered me, and hoped I would eat.
Again no animals were harmed in the process.


Listen more carefully to those scriptures you posted…

You are the one who seems to have some contention with them,
so maybe it is you who needs to hear more closely.
Or pray the Holy Ghost explain it to you.

If you have any questions, I would be happy to address them for you.


On the day God brought the people out of Egypt, that day God did not command burnt offerings and sacrifices. That day God did not, BUT He did later.

You are talking about Moses' day.
God has never asked for animal sacrifice.
He doesn't need the flesh of bulls, or the blood of goats.


God is telling them that He did tell them that day to obey and then He would be their God.

He also said

Thou hast not brought Me the small cattle of thy burnt offerings;
neither hast thou honoured Me with thy sacrifices.
I have not caused thee to serve with an offering,
nor wearied thee with incense.
Isaiah 43:23

People have no trouble bringing their bull before their brethren,
and killing the beasts their brother's offer up.
These are your bullocks, that you are hoping I will eat.
These are the same bullocks you need to bring to Jesus.
Then He will tell you if I am misinterpreting, or if you are misinterpreting.
Yes?

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit:
a broken and a contrite heart, O God, Thou wilt not despise.
Do good in Thy good pleasure unto Zion:
build Thou the walls of Jerusalem.
Then shalt Thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness,
with burnt offering and whole burnt offering:
then shall they offer bullocks upon Thine altar.
Psalm 50:17-19

Bless Jesus.

God's Truth
January 9th, 2019, 02:05 AM
Thank you.
Therefore I pray Jesus to know the meanings.



That's your bullock.
I brought all my bullocks unto the Lord, and no animals were harmed in the process.
I also offered myself up a suckling lamb. Again no animals were harmed.
I spilled the blood of many of my fellows' bullocks, which they offered me, and hoped I would eat.
Again no animals were harmed in the process.



You are the one who seems to have some contention with them,
so maybe it is you who needs to hear more closely.
Or pray the Holy Ghost explain it to you.

If you have any questions, I would be happy to address them for you.



You are talking about Moses' day.
God has never asked for animal sacrifice.
He doesn't need the flesh of bulls, or the blood of goats.



He also said

Thou hast not brought Me the small cattle of thy burnt offerings;
neither hast thou honoured Me with thy sacrifices.
I have not caused thee to serve with an offering,
nor wearied thee with incense.
Isaiah 43:23

People have no trouble bringing their bull before their brethren,
and killing the beasts their brother's offer up.
These are your bullocks, that you are hoping I will eat.
These are the same bullocks you need to bring to Jesus.
Then He will tell you if I am misinterpreting, or if you are misinterpreting.
Yes?

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit:
a broken and a contrite heart, O God, Thou wilt not despise.
Do good in Thy good pleasure unto Zion:
build Thou the walls of Jerusalem.
Then shalt Thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness,
with burnt offering and whole burnt offering:
then shall they offer bullocks upon Thine altar.
Psalm 50:17-19

Bless Jesus.

You are just copying and pasting what you already said.

You chose to go against the Bible then that is on you.

comingfrom
January 9th, 2019, 02:16 AM
This was a key verse for me, when I was trying to discover what the bullocks are,
that we are commanded to offer up.

If the place which the LORD thy God has chosen to put His name there be too far from thee,
then thou shalt kill of thy herd and of thy flock, which the LORD has given thee,
as I have commanded thee,
and thou shalt eat in thy gates whatsoever thy soul lusts after.
Deuteronomy 12:21

It hit me like a bomb.
I already have a herd and flocks?

This was further confirmed for me.

Be thou diligent to know the state of thy flocks, and look well to thy herds.
Proverbs 27:23

With these two verses it soon became easy for me to identify my bullocks,
and then I was able to start bringing them to the gate of the tabernacle of the Lord.
I offer them up here for your consideration,
since they helped me understand and fulfil those commandments.

Praise Lord.

clefty
January 9th, 2019, 08:08 AM
The people in the covenant with God HAD TO get circumcised in the flesh or they could NOT be called a child of God.

They HAD TO ATONE for their own sins!

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood thatmaketh an atonement for the soul.

They HAD to like you HAVE to put gas in your car...what a burden right?

Your rebelliousness knows no end...being saved means WANTING to do something as “Thy Law is a delight”...imagine the joy of being called His People...

but for you its oy vey! we HAVE to do this? AND this? And THIS too?



The Gentiles did not do the things required to be in the covenant with God, and they were called ‘unclean’ people and ‘without’ God’ and ‘separate from the promises’.

Yours keep forgetting Israel was ALWAYS about ALL people and His house a house of prayer for ALL NATIONS...

Leviticus 19:34
The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the LORD your God.

Exodus 12:49
"The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you."

Leviticus 24:22
'There shall be one standard for you; it shall be for the stranger as well as the native, for I am the LORD your God.'"

Numbers 9:14
'If an alien sojourns among you and observes the Passover to the LORD, according to the statute of the Passover and according to its ordinance, so he shall do; you shall have one statute, both for the alien and for the native of the land.'"

Numbers 15:14
'If an alien sojourns with you, or one who may be among you throughout your generations, and he wishes to make an offering by fire, as a soothing aroma to the LORD, just as you do so he shall do.

Numbers 15:15
'As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the alien who sojourns with you, a perpetual statute throughout your generations; as you are, so shall the alien be before the LORD.

Numbers 15:16
'There is to be one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you.'"

Numbers 15:29
'You shall have one law for him who does anything unintentionally, for him who is native among the sons of Israel and for the alien who sojourns among them.

Deuteronomy 1:16
"Then I charged your judges at that time, saying, 'Hear the cases between your fellow countrymen, and judge righteously between a man and his fellow countryman, or the alien who is with him.

Deuteronomy 24:14
"You shall not oppress a hired servant who is poor and needy, whether he is one of your countrymen or one of your aliens who is in your land in your towns.

Leviticus 18:26
'But as for you, you are to keep My statutes and My judgments and shall not do any of these abominations, neither the native, nor the alien who sojourns among you

Exodus 12:19
'Seven days there shall be no leaven found in your houses; for whoever eats what is leavened, that person shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he is an alien or a native of the land.

Exodus 20:10
but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.

Deuteronomy 5:14
but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.

Leviticus 16:29
"This shall be a permanent statute for you: in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall humble your souls and not do any work, whether the native, or the alien who sojourns among you;

Leviticus 17:8
"Then you shall say to them, 'Any man from the house of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, who offers a burnt offering or sacrifice,

Leviticus 17:10
'And any man from the house of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, who eats any blood, I will set My face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people.

Leviticus 22:18
"Speak to Aaron and to his sons and to all the sons of Israel and say to them, 'Any man of the house of Israel or of the aliens in Israel who presents his offering, whether it is any of their votive or any of their freewill offerings, which they present to the LORD for a burnt offering--

Leviticus 17:13
"So when any man from the sons of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, in hunting catches a beast or a bird which may be eaten, he shall pour out its blood and cover it with earth.

Leviticus 24:16
'Moreover, the one who blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall certainly stone him. The alien as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.

Numbers 15:26
'So all the congregation of the sons of Israel will be forgiven, with the alien who sojourns among them, for it happened to all the people through error.

Numbers 35:15
'These six cities shall be for refuge for the sons of Israel, and for the alien and for the sojourner among them; that anyone who kills a person unintentionally may flee there.

Joshua 20:9
These were the appointed cities for all the sons of Israel and for the stranger who sojourns among them, that whoever kills any person unintentionally may flee there, and not die by the hand of the avenger of blood until he stands before the congregation.

Numbers 19:10
'The one who gathers the ashes of the heifer shall wash his clothes and be unclean until evening; and it shall be a perpetual statute to the sons of Israel and to the alien who sojourns among them.

These texts are why jews rejected Yahushua KILLED HIM EVEN...because He reminded them Israel was about faith and obedience BY ANYONE...WHOSOEVER BELIEVES...because Yah SO LOVED THE WORLD...

And it makes people MAD that Israel is NOT a special genetic bloodline but of promise...from ABOVE

ALWAYS WAS SPIRITUAL as Sarah’s bloodline was DONE she was barren...but YAH made Issac...YAH changed Jacob’s name to ISRAEL...

YAH determines Who His people are...not man his traditions of might and power

Yup Israel always just spiritual and not genes and for all Nations makes people really MAD


Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, yup the wall between jew and goy was well established but IN HIM it was destroyed...is why let no one judge goyim for KEEPING the sabbaths et al...which ARE a shadow of things STILL TO COME...



No they are not. A baby boy eight days old was in the covenant after being circumcised.

Yes BY HIS PARENTS FAITH...that baby boy grew in faith because he understood who he was...and WANTS to remains so and by DOING the Law...Israel was always of promise and faith to that promise by works...



Noah had faith AND OBEDIENCE.
In Noah’s time there was not the Law yet of circumcision.
However, it is ALWAYS about FAITH AND OBEDENCE.
But the old law WAS NOT BASED ON FAITH. LOL they were saved BEFORE they even received the Law...they WANTED to keep it because they were saved...well they said they did LOL...and believed they were of Abraham...

That covenant was because of the one given to Abraham...you believe he was your father you obey...as he did...

You think Abraham would reject a command? Make void a law through faith? CERTAINLY NOT!



If you don’t obey, then your faith is worthless, it is DEAD. duh...you just cherry pick what you obey...the rest are not for you...

Like getting an owner’s manual with your new car and randomly removing its pages...”nope not for me”


If a person isn’t doing right, then it is NOT love, no matter how much they tell the person they say they want to marry that they love them.

Doing right is exactly the point of the law...it goes from HAVE TO to WANT TO..I mean someone has to pay you to clean their kitchen yes?...but your own kitchen you don’t HAVE TO right? I mean it’s your kitchen...you should WANT TO...

But your rebelliousness and hatred of the Law is quite profound...cleanliness is next to Godliness I heard

clefty
January 9th, 2019, 08:34 AM
That is more proof that faith must accompany obedience. I don’t need more evidence...I know faith triggers obedience...gratitude for what was done FOR me propels my desire to DO...and things which please Him...what He asked me to do...if I love Him...at least try...

Your aversion to works is like getting married but living like you are single...”but I said I love you...that is enough right?”...or wanting to play tennis “but I dont wanna keep ALL the rules”...or wanting to drive the car “but...waaaaaa too many rules”...good luck with that...



That is NOT when Abraham’s faith was tested. Abraham’s faith was tested when God asked him to sacrifice his son. Abraham was going to do that. RIGHT and if we are of his seed we would OBEY as he did...by faith then obedience and come to know and believe and OBEY Him...the Seed...just as He loved us...


As for Abraham lying about Sarah, he didn’t really lie because Sarah was his sister. he didnt tell the truth that he was married to her...that is deception...would have gotten him killed if Yah had not intervened...Abraham was like we are tested BECAUSE we have faith...


Once saved always saved is possible if the person obeys and then repents when a mistake is made. NOT how it is understood...once saved claims even all future sins are forgiven...one is under grace as law is abolished all already is forgiven one can never fall from grace...or come into need of repentance...

His Law for His people who delight in it makes some others so MAD they claim it dont apply to them...


Moses HAD TO DO WHAT GOD SAID or death would have happened.
Some believe that God was going to kill Moses, and others believe that God was going to take the baby’s life. EITHER PERSON, it is about obeying God. Moses was still chosen BEFORE he was circumcised...

Interesting read:

http://www.crivoice.org/biblestudy/exodus/bbex7.html




God SAID to get circumcised in the flesh, and it had to be done. yup...people get tattoos and body modification still today to BELONG to a certain chosen cool

And yet circumcision never SAVED anyone...

And you miss that judaizers were claiming it did...THAT was the issue in Acts 15...

James concluded that 4 things already required of believing goyim in the OT (3 of which prove the kosher laws applied still) would still be required of goyim to fellowship and crowd the synagogues every Sabbath as Moses was being read to them in every city on every Sabbath...so see? Just like in the OT...Sabbath rest was to the Native and the stranger within your gates...made for man not just jews...

And Israel remains as it was when it was a church in the wilderness...

john w
January 9th, 2019, 09:44 AM
The Old Testament was about earthy man, and earthly things. See Romans 7:4-6.

Another idiotic post, as she posts the above, which is quite irrelevant to her providing scriptural proof that "earthly" is the opposite of "spiritual"

Slower: The opposite of spiritual, is not "earthly," as you assert.

And no, both the OT and NT are about "earthly man/things." False dichotomy.



The New Testament is about the spiritual. See John 6:63.

The NT, OT, are about both the spiritual, and "earthly"-Genesis-Revelation.

The opposite of spiritual, is not "earthly," as you assert.





The Old Testament was prophecies about what was coming. See Romans 16:26.

Quite irrelevant to your argument.




The New Testament is prophecies fulfilled, and revelations revealed about the spiritual. See Ephesians 6:19.

Quite irrelevant to your argument, as the NT is about "earthly," and spiritual, as is the OT.


You: "Jesus" was born on earth-that is "earthly," not spiritual.


You're a clown, in a parade of clowns.

DougE
January 9th, 2019, 10:04 AM
They don't I was replying to this comment pasted below

God's Grace is not given to the unfaithful.

Luke 16:10-13
10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
12 And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?
13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Danoh
January 9th, 2019, 10:12 AM
Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Some say that verse 6 above is saying that at one time, God saved people unto eternal life by their works, but now it is by grace. This is because the verse reads it is " no more of works", therefore, it used to be. I do not hold to this.

Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

In the verses above, the meaning of "no more of works" can be found. Paul is saying that Israel sought righteousness, not by faith, but by the works of the law. Romans 11:6 is saying, the election of grace is God's determination to save those that believe by faith; faith would be based on the propitiation of Jesus. Israel stumbled at the stumblingstone of Christ. The remnant attained righteousness by faith. This righteousness is by grace, not by works. The remnant did not attain righteousness by the works of the law.

Paul stated that all of Israel were not children of God by virture of being of the seed of Abraham; Israel is counted as being the children of God thru the promise God gave through Isaac.

Rebecca had two sons, Jacob and Esau, by Isaac; God elected to chose Jacob to make the covenant.

Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Election is God chosing how, and through whom, he will fulfill His purposes. God did not chose Jacob because he did good, and Esau did evil. The election of grace is not dependant on doing good or evil. The election is of grace. The election is not of works.

That is why Romans 11:6 says that it is "no more of works". The remnant attains righteousness by the election of grace. If the election is by grace, then it is no more of works. Grace has been chosen by God for righteousness. Works have been eliminated as a means of attaining righteousness.

Kind of...

Paul begins his narrative on the idea that it appears that because Israel failed to work that righteousness which was of the law, God was now through with them.

Paul then counters that.

He then adds that, actually, God's plan and purpose for Israel was/is no more of works than works is of grace - for the two are mutually exclusive - that God's plan and purpose for, and through Israel has always been an election of, or based on, His grace.

As in....

Exodus 32:11 And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand? 32:12 Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people. 32:13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever. 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

As events like those had been meant to illustrate, their Election is of Grace - is because that is what He had determined their Election would be of - of His grace - given both His intent for Himself, and what that had served to remind Israel of.

That He alone is their LORD and His determined plan and purpose is HIS doing.

Ezekiel 36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Which makes a complete mockery of the "God is through with Israel" crowd, for it was never about Israel's will, but about His determined will, alone.

Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Acts 17: 11, 12.

God's Truth
January 9th, 2019, 01:15 PM
Another idiotic post, as she posts the above, which is quite irrelevant to her providing scriptural proof that "earthly" is the opposite of "spiritual"

Slower: The opposite of spiritual, is not "earthly," as you assert.

And no, both the OT and NT are about "earthly man/things." False dichotomy.


The NT, OT, are about both the spiritual, and "earthly"-Genesis-Revelation.

The opposite of spiritual, is not "earthly," as you assert.



Quite irrelevant to your argument.



Quite irrelevant to your argument, as the NT is about "earthly," and spiritual, as is the OT.


You: "Jesus" was born on earth-that is "earthly," not spiritual.


You're a clown, in a parade of clowns.

You haven't disproved anything I said. Try again.

john w
January 9th, 2019, 01:24 PM
You haven't disproved anything I said. Try again.

Slower: The opposite of spiritual, is not "earthly," as you assert.

God's Truth
January 9th, 2019, 01:24 PM
They HAD to like you HAVE to put gas in your car...what a burden right?

Your rebelliousness knows no end...being saved means WANTING to do something as “Thy Law is a delight”...imagine the joy of being called His People...

but for you its oy vey! we HAVE to do this? AND this? And THIS too?




Yours keep forgetting Israel was ALWAYS about ALL people and His house a house of prayer for ALL NATIONS...

Leviticus 19:34
The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the LORD your God.

Exodus 12:49
"The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you."

Leviticus 24:22
'There shall be one standard for you; it shall be for the stranger as well as the native, for I am the LORD your God.'"

Numbers 9:14
'If an alien sojourns among you and observes the Passover to the LORD, according to the statute of the Passover and according to its ordinance, so he shall do; you shall have one statute, both for the alien and for the native of the land.'"

Numbers 15:14
'If an alien sojourns with you, or one who may be among you throughout your generations, and he wishes to make an offering by fire, as a soothing aroma to the LORD, just as you do so he shall do.

Numbers 15:15
'As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the alien who sojourns with you, a perpetual statute throughout your generations; as you are, so shall the alien be before the LORD.

Numbers 15:16
'There is to be one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you.'"

Numbers 15:29
'You shall have one law for him who does anything unintentionally, for him who is native among the sons of Israel and for the alien who sojourns among them.

Deuteronomy 1:16
"Then I charged your judges at that time, saying, 'Hear the cases between your fellow countrymen, and judge righteously between a man and his fellow countryman, or the alien who is with him.

Deuteronomy 24:14
"You shall not oppress a hired servant who is poor and needy, whether he is one of your countrymen or one of your aliens who is in your land in your towns.

Leviticus 18:26
'But as for you, you are to keep My statutes and My judgments and shall not do any of these abominations, neither the native, nor the alien who sojourns among you

Exodus 12:19
'Seven days there shall be no leaven found in your houses; for whoever eats what is leavened, that person shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he is an alien or a native of the land.

Exodus 20:10
but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.

Deuteronomy 5:14
but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.

Leviticus 16:29
"This shall be a permanent statute for you: in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall humble your souls and not do any work, whether the native, or the alien who sojourns among you;

Leviticus 17:8
"Then you shall say to them, 'Any man from the house of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, who offers a burnt offering or sacrifice,

Leviticus 17:10
'And any man from the house of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, who eats any blood, I will set My face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people.

Leviticus 22:18
"Speak to Aaron and to his sons and to all the sons of Israel and say to them, 'Any man of the house of Israel or of the aliens in Israel who presents his offering, whether it is any of their votive or any of their freewill offerings, which they present to the LORD for a burnt offering--

Leviticus 17:13
"So when any man from the sons of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, in hunting catches a beast or a bird which may be eaten, he shall pour out its blood and cover it with earth.

Leviticus 24:16
'Moreover, the one who blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall certainly stone him. The alien as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.

Numbers 15:26
'So all the congregation of the sons of Israel will be forgiven, with the alien who sojourns among them, for it happened to all the people through error.

Numbers 35:15
'These six cities shall be for refuge for the sons of Israel, and for the alien and for the sojourner among them; that anyone who kills a person unintentionally may flee there.

Joshua 20:9
These were the appointed cities for all the sons of Israel and for the stranger who sojourns among them, that whoever kills any person unintentionally may flee there, and not die by the hand of the avenger of blood until he stands before the congregation.

Numbers 19:10
'The one who gathers the ashes of the heifer shall wash his clothes and be unclean until evening; and it shall be a perpetual statute to the sons of Israel and to the alien who sojourns among them.

These texts are why jews rejected Yahushua KILLED HIM EVEN...because He reminded them Israel was about faith and obedience BY ANYONE...WHOSOEVER BELIEVES...because Yah SO LOVED THE WORLD...

And it makes people MAD that Israel is NOT a special genetic bloodline but of promise...from ABOVE

ALWAYS WAS SPIRITUAL as Sarah’s bloodline was DONE she was barren...but YAH made Issac...YAH changed Jacob’s name to ISRAEL...

YAH determines Who His people are...not man his traditions of might and power

Yup Israel always just spiritual and not genes and for all Nations makes people really MAD

yup the wall between jew and goy was well established but IN HIM it was destroyed...is why let no one judge goyim for KEEPING the sabbaths et al...which ARE a shadow of things STILL TO COME...




Yes BY HIS PARENTS FAITH...that baby boy grew in faith because he understood who he was...and WANTS to remains so and by DOING the Law...Israel was always of promise and faith to that promise by works...


LOL they were saved BEFORE they even received the Law...they WANTED to keep it because they were saved...well they said they did LOL...and believed they were of Abraham...

That covenant was because of the one given to Abraham...you believe he was your father you obey...as he did...

You think Abraham would reject a command? Make void a law through faith? CERTAINLY NOT!


duh...you just cherry pick what you obey...the rest are not for you...

Like getting an owner’s manual with your new car and randomly removing its pages...”nope not for me”



Doing right is exactly the point of the law...it goes from HAVE TO to WANT TO..I mean someone has to pay you to clean their kitchen yes?...but your own kitchen you don’t HAVE TO right? I mean it’s your kitchen...you should WANT TO...

But your rebelliousness and hatred of the Law is quite profound...cleanliness is next to Godliness I heard

The people in the covenant with God HAD TO get circumcised in the flesh or they could NOT be called a child of God.

They HAD TO ATONE for their own sins!

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood thatmaketh an atonement for the soul.

God's Truth
January 9th, 2019, 01:25 PM
Slower: The opposite of spiritual, is not "earthly," as you assert.

You haven't disproved anything I said. Try again.

john w
January 9th, 2019, 01:28 PM
You haven't disproved anything I said. Try again.

You haven't said anything, except that you, on record, assert that the birth, death, and resurrection are not spiritual, demon. Get sober, again,demon.

God's Truth
January 9th, 2019, 01:47 PM
You haven't said anything, except that you, on record, assert that the birth, death, and resurrection are not spiritual, demon. Get sober, again,demon.

No such thing what you say.

john w
January 9th, 2019, 01:56 PM
No such thing what you say.

You assert that "earthly" is not spiritual, loser. Thus, with that made up slop, false dichotomy, all the literal events, people, places, history, in both the OT and NT are not "spiritual."


You're insane, intoxicated, or 4 years old, and your baby sitter is typing for you-no other option.

clefty
January 9th, 2019, 02:14 PM
The people in the covenant with God HAD TO get circumcised in the flesh or they could NOT be called a child of God. you keep missing it...

They WANTED TO...those people in the covenant WANTED TO...even today people get tattoos and body piercings and other modification because they WANT TO...since they see themselves as a chosen cool


They HAD TO ATONE for their own sins! again they WANTED to...Hebrews 9-10 make quite clear all these sacrifices did NOT remove sin...but showed a symbolic restoration the real literal permanent is through and by Him...and still to come


Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood thatmaketh an atonement for the soul. yes He knows His own crave a symbol or ceremony or ritual by which they are comforted and secured as His...what GRACE these symbolic works...

His people WANT TO...they delight in His Law

All others are rebellious and stiffnecked and rejecting HIM HIS WAY...preferring their own traditions or rationale NOT TO OBEY

His yoke is easy His burden is light...except for those stiffnecked

comingfrom
January 9th, 2019, 02:53 PM
The people in the covenant with God HAD TO get circumcised in the flesh or they could NOT be called a child of God.

Thank you, God's Truth.
They had to to avoid the condemnation of men like yourself who say this.

Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead,
nor print any marks upon you:
I am the LORD.
Leviticus 19:28

If God had wanted us without foreskins or clitoris He would have made us that way.


They HAD TO ATONE for their own sins!

They had to make an acceptable offering to God, for Him to atone them.
As it is today.
It is still the same for Christians.
We still have to make the sinners' prayer and offer up our life to Jesus.
Didn't we?

And only the people who do this with a sincere heart are redeemed.
If they do this only with their lips, or with secret sinful desire in the heart,
their offering will not be accepted.
Is it?


Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood thatmaketh an atonement for the soul.

Here we see the blood of atonement spoken about long before our Lord Jesus appeared in the flesh.
And here the Lord speaks of our day of atonement.

Also
on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement:
it shall be an holy convocation unto you;
and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement,
to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
Leviticus 23:27-28

Praise God.

God's Truth
January 9th, 2019, 08:20 PM
Thank you, God's Truth.
They had to to avoid the condemnation of men like yourself who say this.

Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead,
nor print any marks upon you:
I am the LORD.
Leviticus 19:28

If God had wanted us without foreskins or clitoris He would have made us that way.



They had to make an acceptable offering to God, for Him to atone them.
As it is today.
It is still the same for Christians.
We still have to make the sinners' prayer and offer up our life to Jesus.
Didn't we?

And only the people who do this with a sincere heart are redeemed.
If they do this only with their lips, or with secret sinful desire in the heart,
their offering will not be accepted.
Is it?



Here we see the blood of atonement spoken about long before our Lord Jesus appeared in the flesh.
And here the Lord speaks of our day of atonement.

Also
on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement:
it shall be an holy convocation unto you;
and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement,
to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
Leviticus 23:27-28

Praise God.

I see Meshak likes this mess you posted.

God's Truth
January 9th, 2019, 08:21 PM
You assert that "earthly" is not spiritual, loser. Thus, with that made up slop, false dichotomy, all the literal events, people, places, history, in both the OT and NT are not "spiritual."


You're insane, intoxicated, or 4 years old, and your baby sitter is typing for you-no other option.

They thought Jesus was insane too. So thank you.

God's Truth
January 9th, 2019, 08:36 PM
you keep missing it...

They WANTED TO...those people in the covenant WANTED TO...even today people get tattoos and body piercings and other modification because they WANT TO...since they see themselves as a chosen cool
How do you ever get that I miss anything? If they wanted to be a child of God they had to get circumcised in the flesh.
When Moses wasn’t going to circumcise his son, God was going to kill Moses.



again they WANTED to...Hebrews 9-10 make quite clear all these sacrifices did NOT remove sin...but showed a symbolic restoration the real literal permanent is through and by Him...and still to come
What you are saying has nothing to do with what we are talking about.


yes He knows His own crave a symbol or ceremony or ritual by which they are comforted and secured as His...what GRACE these symbolic works...
God commanded the purification works.

steko
January 9th, 2019, 09:03 PM
They thought Jesus was insane too. So thank you.

GT's logic:

1) People thought that Jesus was insane.

2) The people were wrong.

3) Therefore, when people think that other people are insane, they are always wrong.

musterion
January 9th, 2019, 09:10 PM
The troll is comparing itself to Christ.

clefty
January 9th, 2019, 09:17 PM
How do you ever get that I miss anything? cuz you make it seem like they HAD TO as if was a chore or a burden or something they didnt want to do...well ok without love that might be true...

But for those NOT stiffnecked the laws were their delight...


If they wanted to be a child of God they had to get circumcised in the flesh. it can be written that if they wanted to be a child of God they circumcised in the flesh...but being a child of God doesnt quarantee salvation...many are chosen and fail...what the judiazers were claiming was that the goyim HAD to be circumcised in order to be saved...that was never taught in the OT...


When Moses wasn’t going to circumcise his son, God was going to kill Moses. Moses wasnt refusing circumcision as Yah didnt even instruct Him...but remembering that he wasnt Yah moved against him...his wife did what she had to...


What you are saying has nothing to do with what we are talking about. sure it does...all this was about Mercy rather than sacrifice anyway...no sacrice made them perfect it was all symbolic of what HE ACTUALLY CAN DO...

Saved by Him we dont have to do the Law...we WANT TO...


God commanded the purification works. right...given works so that their faith could be practiced and exercised...

You dont think Adam would have done them if faithful? Or Abraham who by faith was obedient?

If you love...is IF YOU WANT TO...as I have loved you...JUST AS...

God's Truth
January 9th, 2019, 10:23 PM
cuz you make it seem like they HAD TO as if was a chore or a burden or something they didnt want to do...well ok without love that might be true...
But for those NOT stiffnecked the laws were their delight...

I am glad that you can see what I mean.



it can be written that if they wanted to be a child of God they circumcised in the flesh...but being a child of God doesnt quarantee salvation...many are chosen and fail...what the judiazers were claiming was that the goyim HAD to be circumcised in order to be saved...that was never taught in the OT...
The Gentiles were excluded and without God because they didn’t do the purification works of the law and come under the covenant.



Moses wasnt refusing circumcision as Yah didnt even instruct Him...but remembering that he wasnt Yah moved against him...his wife did what she had to...
Moses’ son was the one who needed to be circumcised.



sure it does...all this was about Mercy rather than sacrifice anyway...no sacrice made them perfect it was all symbolic of what HE ACTUALLY CAN DO...
The purification works of the law were a shadow of Jesus, a teaching tool about Jesus. The people were bad and needed the law.
God did not like it though that the people would give sin offerings, but not really be sorry. God said that He would make a new covenant one day.


Saved by Him we dont have to do the Law...we WANT TO...
We have to obey the new law if we want to be saved.

right...given works so that their faith could be practiced and exercised...
The old law was not based on faith. It was based on the people cleaning themselves.


You dont think Adam would have done them if faithful? Or Abraham who by faith was obedient?

If you love...is IF YOU WANT TO...as I have loved you...JUST AS...
There are so many people who don’t feel as if they really know God or feel they are loved by God. Many believe that they are saved just by believing, yet they are sinners as always. People need to know that they have to do what Jesus says to do to get chosen to be saved.

bibleverse2
January 10th, 2019, 12:16 AM
. . . they had to get circumcised in the flesh.

Leviticus 12:3 And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

God's Truth
January 10th, 2019, 01:20 AM
Leviticus 12:3 And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

Right on. It is strange how it can be denied by others.

comingfrom
January 10th, 2019, 05:56 AM
An eight day sabbath?
And, what foreskin?

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart,
and be no more stiffnecked.
Deuteronomy 10:16

Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart,
ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem:
lest My fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it,
because of the evil of your doings.
Jeremiah 4:4

Don't cut boys' willies.
Circumcise your heart to receive the word,
in the eighth day after you are born again.

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you:
and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Ezekiel 36:26

john w
January 10th, 2019, 10:56 AM
They thought Jesus was insane too. So thank you.

You assert that "earthly" is not spiritual, loser. Thus, with that made up slop, false dichotomy, all the literal events, people, places, history, in both the OT and NT are not "spiritual."


You're insane, intoxicated, or 4 years old, and your baby sitter is typing for you-no other option.

God's Truth
January 10th, 2019, 05:05 PM
You assert that "earthly" is not spiritual, loser. Thus, with that made up slop, false dichotomy, all the literal events, people, places, history, in both the OT and NT are not "spiritual."


You're insane, intoxicated, or 4 years old, and your baby sitter is typing for you-no other option.


The Old Testament was about earthy man, and earthly things. See Romans 7:4-6.
The New Testament is about the spiritual. See John 6:63.
The Old Testament was prophecies about what was coming. See Romans 16:26.
The New Testament is prophecies fulfilled, and revelations revealed about the spiritual. See Ephesians 6:19.

The land promised in the Old Testament was fulfilled, it was was about earthy land; but it was also promised about a heavenly country.

Hebrews 11:16 Instead, they were longing for a better country--a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

We learn about the heavenly country IN THE NEW TESTAMENT.

The Old Testament was about cutting the flesh for circumcision.

The New Testament is about circumcising your heart, which is spiritual.

The old Testament was a matter of eating and drinking and taking baths.

The New Testament is not.

Hebrews 9:10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings--external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

john w
January 10th, 2019, 05:09 PM
The Old Testament was about earthy man, and earthly things. See Romans 7:4-6.
The New Testament is about the spiritual. See John 6:63.
The Old Testament was prophecies about what was coming. See Romans 16:26.
The New Testament is prophecies fulfilled, and revelations revealed about the spiritual. See Ephesians 6:19.

The land promised in the Old Testament was fulfilled, it was was about earthy land; but it was also promised about a heavenly country.

Hebrews 11:16 Instead, they were longing for a better country--a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

We learn about the heavenly country IN THE NEW TESTAMENT.

The Old Testament was about cutting the flesh for circumcision.

The New Testament is about circumcising your heart, which is spiritual.

The old Testament was a matter of eating and drinking and taking baths.

The New Testament is not.

Hebrews 9:10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings--external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

You assert, on record, that your "Jesus" was not spiritual.


The opposite of spiritual, is not earthly, moron, despite you slurring that, after your last Scotch on the rocks.

God's Truth
January 10th, 2019, 05:11 PM
You assert, on record, that your "Jesus" was not spiritual.


The opposite of spiritual, is not earthly, moron, despite you slurring that, after your last Scotch on the rocks.

Kuck koo kuck koo

john w
January 10th, 2019, 05:12 PM
Kuck koo kuck koo

Scotch #6.

clefty
January 10th, 2019, 07:49 PM
I am glad that you can see what I mean. I not only see your rebellion against His way I feel the burden it is for you...

But for His people it is a light yoke and easy burden...a delight even...We WANT to do it...kinda like when two lovers meet and wish to please each other and do things the other requests or would like...

How about you? Do you remember your first love? Why did you leave your first love? When you wanted to please Him for what He did for you...not for Him to do more for you...



The Gentiles were excluded and without God because they didn’t do the purification works of the law and come under the covenant. excluded from what? The Sabbath? They were actually written into the law itself...it was for strangers and animals even...as it was ONE law for native and stranger alike...all throughout the time the church was in the wilderness...



Moses’ son was the one who needed to be circumcised. right but not to be saved...how can something done to an infant SAVE IT...we dont even baptize infants for that reason...



The purification works of the law were a shadow of Jesus, a teaching tool about Jesus. wrong...Paul wrote they ARE a shadow of good to come...notice present tense...


The people were bad and needed the law. people are no longer bad? No need for law?


God did not like it though that the people would give sin offerings, but not really be sorry. God said that He would make a new covenant one day. yes the fault was with the people NOT the covenant its laws...Heb 9,10 discuss how sin remained as these SHADOWS are symbolic and cant do away with sin...ONLY HE CAN


We have to obey the new law if we want to be saved. we HAVE TO? Wow...how about we want to BECAUSE WE ALREADY ARE SAVED...

Do you clean your house to earn it? Or do you clean it because it already is yours?



The old law was not based on faith. It was based on the people cleaning themselves. WRONG...it was always FAITH first and the WORKS...people kept cleaning themselves because they wished to be KEPT CLEAN after HAVING BEEN MADE CLEAN...they were SAVED and cleaned before even given the LAW...the irony...


There are so many people who don’t feel as if they really know God or feel they are loved by God. because they dont WANT do the work to get to know Him HIS WAYS...


Many believe that they are saved just by believing, yet they are sinners as always. right...even Paul admitted to doing THAT WHICH HE HATED...it is a long race a long WAY...but doing HIS works gives us discipline and practice and builds character and develops nature and leads to better understanding as to HIM HIS WAYS and love for us...and thus our gratitude...and desire to PLEASE HIM with HIS WORKS...powerful self contained circuit of faith works love there that is...


People need to know that they have to do what Jesus says to do to get chosen to be saved. NOT TO GET CHOSEN BUT BECAUSE WE WERE CHOSEN...duh...same as it ALWAYS WAS...Adam had faith should have obeyed...Noah had faith began to build...by FAITH Abraham obeyed all things...chosen Moses obeyed...well almost...on and on it goes...

Yup there is much to do...if you love Me...keep my commandments...love each other AS I LOVED YOU

In fact James made it clear 4 things were initially required of goyim for them to hear Moses taught in every city on every Sabbath...

Then they did the rest as they heard even more about the One resurrected...and for them...

God's Truth
January 11th, 2019, 12:08 AM
I not only see your rebellion against His way I feel the burden it is for you...

But for His people it is a light yoke and easy burden...a delight even...We WANT to do it...kinda like when two lovers meet and wish to please each other and do things the other requests or would like...

How about you? Do you remember your first love? Why did you leave your first love? When you wanted to please Him for what He did for you...not for Him to do more for you...


excluded from what? The Sabbath? They were actually written into the law itself...it was for strangers and animals even...as it was ONE law for native and stranger alike...all throughout the time the church was in the wilderness...


right but not to be saved...how can something done to an infant SAVE IT...we dont even baptize infants for that reason...


wrong...Paul wrote they ARE a shadow of good to come...notice present tense...

people are no longer bad? No need for law?

yes the fault was with the people NOT the covenant its laws...Heb 9,10 discuss how sin remained as these SHADOWS are symbolic and cant do away with sin...ONLY HE CAN

we HAVE TO? Wow...how about we want to BECAUSE WE ALREADY ARE SAVED...

Do you clean your house to earn it? Or do you clean it because it already is yours?


WRONG...it was always FAITH first and the WORKS...people kept cleaning themselves because they wished to be KEPT CLEAN after HAVING BEEN MADE CLEAN...they were SAVED and cleaned before even given the LAW...the irony...

because they dont WANT do the work to get to know Him HIS WAYS...

right...even Paul admitted to doing THAT WHICH HE HATED...it is a long race a long WAY...but doing HIS works gives us discipline and practice and builds character and develops nature and leads to better understanding as to HIM HIS WAYS and love for us...and thus our gratitude...and desire to PLEASE HIM with HIS WORKS...powerful self contained circuit of faith works love there that is...

NOT TO GET CHOSEN BUT BECAUSE WE WERE CHOSEN...duh...same as it ALWAYS WAS...Adam had faith should have obeyed...Noah had faith began to build...by FAITH Abraham obeyed all things...chosen Moses obeyed...well almost...on and on it goes...

Yup there is much to do...if you love Me...keep my commandments...love each other AS I LOVED YOU

In fact James made it clear 4 things were initially required of goyim for them to hear Moses taught in every city on every Sabbath...

Then they did the rest as they heard even more about the One resurrected...and for them...

We have to obey God to get saved, and to stay saved.

God says to repent of your sins and believe.

That is what we have to do to get saved.

clefty
January 11th, 2019, 02:39 AM
We have to obey God to get saved, and to stay saved.

God says to repent of your sins and believe.

That is what we have to do to get saved.

We have to have faith to obey...and stay obedient...He gives us His Spirit to do so...if His Father has called us

So do you obey 10/10ths of the law or 9/10ths? Which automatically becomes 8/10ths as you steal worship from Him if you don’t do all 10...7/10ths since you lie to rationalize the change was done...6/10ths because now you claim you worship Him but it’s with a false/idolatrous worship...5/10ths as this false god you now worship is ok with less than 10/10 worship...

4/10ths because now you are adulterating a faith relationship...3/10ths as you dishonor your Fsther His heirarchy...2/10ths cuz ya prolly covet the ease with which the rest of the pagan world can worship and wish to do the same...and finally you kill the Spirit...so well you ain’t obedient at all taking His name for nothing having nothing to show for it...

comingfrom
January 11th, 2019, 03:19 AM
We have to have faith to obey...and stay obedient...He gives us His Spirit to do so...if His Father has called us

Are you now saying one can do all the commandments?


So do you obey 10/10ths of the law or 9/10ths? Which automatically becomes 8/10ths as you steal worship from Him if you don’t do all 10...7/10ths since you lie to rationalize the change was done...6/10ths because now you claim you worship Him but it’s with a false/idolatrous worship...5/10ths as this false god you now worship is ok with less than 10/10 worship...

Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people,
according as ye have not kept My ways, but have been partial in the law.
Have we not all one father?
has not one God created us?
why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother,
by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
Malachi 2:9-10

The Lord chastens us, if we step one foot outside of His commandments. Yes?
So there is no wondering if you are doing right or not in the Lord.
Sometimes it took me a little while to figure out which law I was transgressing,
but it never takes long because the Holy Ghost leads you to the answer.
Or maybe it is because I am looking for my transgressions, and reproof.

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten:
be zealous therefore, and repent.
Revelation 3:19

To those who forsake the law, and hide from it, it is impossible to do.
To them the law shall always be a source of confusion, and a curse.
But you got to expect that if you never study or practice it.
And only hearken to them that hate it and excuse themself from it.

Thank God the law is highly praise in scripture, even above God's name.
Else all the enchantments of those that hate God might have had all men off of it.
Praise God.

I will worship toward Thy holy temple,
and praise Thy name for Thy lovingkindness and for Thy truth:
for Thou hast magnified Thy word above all Thy name.
Psalm 138:2

The LORD is well pleased for His righteousness' sake;
He will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
Isaiah 42:21

comingfrom
January 11th, 2019, 03:28 AM
Sorry Clefty, and GT,
it was GT who told me "can't do the commandments".
I got a bit confused as to who I was talking to.
I'm not used to who is who here yet.

God bless you both.

clefty
January 11th, 2019, 04:37 AM
Are you now saying one can do all the commandments? sure...maybe not all the time but we should WANT to try...He of course forgives us when we repent knowing when we failed...in fact sacrifices in the OT were for sins they didnt even know they did...or didn’t do...

We should be like a little kid trying on his Father’s shoes...”Look at me I am daddy!”





The Lord chastens us, if we step one foot outside of His commandments. Yes? sure but we WANT to keep trying and growing closer to Him HIS WAY...and He gives us the comfort and courage and ability...and soon we are sinning less...but not sinless...accept covered IN HIM...is WHY we WANT to try


So there is no wondering if you are doing right or not in the Lord. exactly...what grace to be given exact instruction as to what we are to do...to please Him...like a well trained dog is happy...like a young lover is pleased to know what the other desires...first love


Sometimes it took me a little while to figure out which law I was transgressing,
but it never takes long because the Holy Ghost leads you to the answer.
Or maybe it is because I am looking for my transgressions, and reproof. yes He will lead...responsible for a little you will be given more...and be blessed...and live

I dont murder anyone so I sleep good at night...simple...still working on not getting mad for no real reason though...lol
I dont steal...no one is after me...
I dont commit adultery...my relationships with everyone are improved
I keep Sabbaths (actually it keeps me)and am rested and refreshed with its full day rest...and worship

Etc...sure I fail and but then ask forgiveness...even Paul admitted doing that which he hated...but keep HATING it and you will do it less...ha...the Spirit will help

no batter hits 1000% ya dig? Just keep swinging...

Yes He chastens and rebukes but because we are in a LOVE relationship...with a purpose...RESTORATION...and COMPLETELY

Remember we are to REPRESENT HIM...Paul says we establish Law...we are to the world what He is...as His disciples we should mirror and reflect Him HIS WAYS and exactly...that we are made in His Image is beyond what we look like but what we DO...

What most people forget is that the 10 commandments are actually descriptions as to what life is like where “I AM”

Where “I AM” there is no murdering, stealing, lying, adultery, coveting...as where He is there is NO NEED to

Where “I AM” there is no other god, no images/idols, His Name is used, Sabbath is kept, hierarchy honored

And if we wish to live happily there with Him...well we should WANT to get used to it here...and be happy with it...because it will be ON EARTH as it is in heaven...

Imagine if there was no sin...well that is how we were created to live...it’s our factory settings...our default...so we should WANT to get used to that...DO THIS AND LIVE...and NOW IN HIM...forever...





To those who forsake the law, and hide from it, it is impossible to do.
To them the law shall always be a source of confusion, and a curse.
But you got to expect that if you never study or practice it.
And only hearken to them that hate it and excuse themself from it. yup like a child who HATES when the parents come home BECAUSE he didn’t do the chores...or how EVERYBODY slows down coming over the hill to see a cop car parked there...lol


Thank God the law is highly praise in scripture, even above God's name. yes it is a delight...

Else all the enchantments of those that hate God might have had all men off of it. yes indeed...now we know Whom and HOW and WHEN we may serve to LIVE and NOW forever...our purpose is clear as to why we were created...

Nothing better knowing you can please the one you love...and how to do so...


Praise God. yes indeed HalleluYah...

Knowing what He expects and that He helps us achieve it...benefits not only this life but assures us IN HIM DOING HIS WAY of the next...

The Law is like an owners manual...we dont read and do it in order to earn the car...we read and do it BECAUSE we already own the car...and in this case it was given to us and now wish to take care of it and maximize its use...

His yoke is easy His burden is light...if you love Him...

clefty
January 11th, 2019, 04:48 AM
Sorry Clefty, and GT,
it was GT who told me "can't do the commandments".
I got a bit confused as to who I was talking to.
I'm not used to who is who here yet.

God bless you both.

Ha...yup lots of confusing misdirection in here...most of it following a jewish false witness that He changed the law or fulfilled it or abolished it some other way...

Or somehow it doesnt apply to everyone...

But it all ends with “Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith of Yahushua”

In fact His last red letters words are “behold I am coming quickly and My reward is with Me to give to EVERY ONE according to his work...I have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the CHURCHES...Surely I am coming quickly”

Those that LOVE HIM and JUST AS He loved us...love His Law...and know the works He will reward...and seek His soon return...not fearful but as longing for their first love....

Oh and may Yah continue to bless you too...

comingfrom
January 11th, 2019, 03:10 PM
Thank you, Clefty.

You surprise me.


sure...maybe not all the time but we should WANT to try...He of course forgives us when we repent knowing when we failed...in fact sacrifices in the OT were for sins they didnt even know they did...or didn’t do...

Yes, we make offerings to learn how we transgress.


We should be like a little kid trying on his Father’s shoes...”Look at me I am daddy!”

It is enough for me trying on Jesus' sandals. :)
God asks me to be a man, and no longer be a god.


sure but we WANT to keep trying and growing closer to Him HIS WAY...and He gives us the comfort and courage and ability...and soon we are sinning less...but not sinless...accept covered IN HIM...is WHY we WANT to try

Your word is refreshing to me.
Most here are preaching to not try. Telling us we're deceived if we do try.


exactly...what grace to be given exact instruction as to what we are to do...to please Him...like a well trained dog is happy...like a young lover is pleased to know what the other desires...first love

Yes, like puppy love. Describes my love for the word.


yes He will lead...responsible for a little you will be given more...and be blessed...and live
Amen.


I dont murder anyone so I sleep good at night...simple...still working on not getting mad for no real reason though...lol

I haven't felt so much as annoyed for over a decade now.
Anger is a dim memory, where once I was an angry man.


I dont steal...no one is after me...
I dont commit adultery...my relationships with everyone are improved
I keep Sabbaths (actually it keeps me)and am rested and refreshed with its full day rest...and worship

I make three day sabbaths, in the wilderness, to sacrifice as God commands me.
But in the early days I had to make some eight day sabbaths.


Etc...sure I fail and but then ask forgiveness...even Paul admitted doing that which he hated...but keep HATING it and you will do it less...ha...the Spirit will help

no batter hits 1000% ya dig? Just keep swinging...

Sometimes I make a sabbath and He doesn't come.
Sometimes I can't shake off my thoughts, and concerns for the world.


Yes He chastens and rebukes but because we are in a LOVE relationship...with a purpose...RESTORATION...and COMPLETELY

By His stripes I was healed.
He gives me a good tongue lashing when I do wrong.


Remember we are to REPRESENT HIM...Paul says we establish Law...we are to the world what He is...as His disciples we should mirror and reflect Him HIS WAYS and exactly...that we are made in His Image is beyond what we look like but what we DO...

God is the word, and we are a word (constant stream of thought).
By keeping His saying we conform our word, our self, to His word.


What most people forget is that the 10 commandments are actually descriptions as to what life is like where “I AM”

Where “I AM” there is no murdering, stealing, lying, adultery, coveting...as where He is there is NO NEED to

Where “I AM” there is no other god, no images/idols, His Name is used, Sabbath is kept, hierarchy honored

And if we wish to live happily there with Him...well we should WANT to get used to it here...and be happy with it...because it will be ON EARTH as it is in heaven...

That all our days may be as heaven on earth,
come out of tribulation.


Imagine if there was no sin...well that is how we were created to live...it’s our factory settings...our default...so we should WANT to get used to that...DO THIS AND LIVE...and NOW IN HIM...forever...

Yes. But we were all brought up in Egypt, and our fathers before us,
and the sins passed on to the children to the children all these generations.
Which is why sin has snowballed to what we see in the world today,
with so few, if any, sin free.


yup like a child who HATES when the parents come home BECAUSE he didn’t do the chores...or how EVERYBODY slows down coming over the hill to see a cop car parked there...lol

Like Adam and Eve hiding among the trees in the garden, and covering themselves with fig leaves.



yes it is a delight...
yes indeed...now we know Whom and HOW and WHEN we may serve to LIVE and NOW forever...our purpose is clear as to why we were created...

Nothing better knowing you can please the one you love...and how to do so...

We are come to fulfil the law.


yes indeed HalleluYah...

Knowing what He expects and that He helps us achieve it...benefits not only this life but assures us IN HIM DOING HIS WAY of the next...

The Law is like an owners manual...we dont read and do it in order to earn the car...we read and do it BECAUSE we already own the car...and in this case it was given to us and now wish to take care of it and maximize its use...

His yoke is easy His burden is light...if you love Him...

Amen, and thank you.
Your words are like music to my ears.


Ha...yup lots of confusing misdirection in here...most of it following a jewish false witness that He changed the law or fulfilled it or abolished it some other way...

Or somehow it doesnt apply to everyone...

I supposed that was a Gentile viewpoint.


But it all ends with “Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith of Yahushua”

In fact His last red letters words are “behold I am coming quickly and My reward is with Me to give to EVERY ONE according to his work...I have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the CHURCHES...Surely I am coming quickly”

Every eye has seen Him.
He was coming to us since we were in diapers.


Those that LOVE HIM and JUST AS He loved us...love His Law...and know the works He will reward...and seek His soon return...not fearful but as longing for their first love....

We cannot know how God wants us to love, without knowing His law.
We cannot understand how Jesus loved us, without knowing God's law.
So we have to know the law, in order to love one another as Jesus loved us.
For Jesus loved us by fulfilling the Father's commandments.


Oh and may Yah continue to bless you too...

Thank you, Clefty.
Blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord.
`Paul

meshak
January 11th, 2019, 10:53 PM
Thank you, Clefty.

You surprise me.



Yes, we make offerings to learn how we transgress.



It is enough for me trying on Jesus' sandals. :)
God asks me to be a man, and no longer be a god.



Your word is refreshing to me.
Most here are preaching to not try. Telling us we're deceived if we do try.



Yes, like puppy love. Describes my love for the word.


Amen.



I haven't felt so much as annoyed for over a decade now.
Anger is a dim memory, where once I was an angry man.



I make three day sabbaths, in the wilderness, to sacrifice as God commands me.
But in the early days I had to make some eight day sabbaths.



Sometimes I make a sabbath and He doesn't come.
Sometimes I can't shake off my thoughts, and concerns for the world.



By His stripes I was healed.
He gives me a good tongue lashing when I do wrong.



God is the word, and we are a word (constant stream of thought).
By keeping His saying we conform our word, our self, to His word.



That all our days may be as heaven on earth,
come out of tribulation.



Yes. But we were all brought up in Egypt, and our fathers before us,
and the sins passed on to the children to the children all these generations.
Which is why sin has snowballed to what we see in the world today,
with so few, if any, sin free.



Like Adam and Eve hiding among the trees in the garden, and covering themselves with fig leaves.




We are come to fulfil the law.



Amen, and thank you.
Your words are like music to my ears.



I supposed that was a Gentile viewpoint.



Every eye has seen Him.
He was coming to us since we were in diapers.



We cannot know how God wants us to love, without knowing His law.
We cannot understand how Jesus loved us, without knowing God's law.
So we have to know the law, in order to love one another as Jesus loved us.
For Jesus loved us by fulfilling the Father's commandments.



Thank you, Clefty.
Blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord.
`Paulcommingfrom,

do you observe Saturday worship?

bibleverse2
January 12th, 2019, 01:17 AM
meshak said in post #95:

do you observe Saturday worship?


Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

comingfrom
January 12th, 2019, 01:25 AM
commingfrom,

do you observe Saturday worship?

Thank you Meshak.
No.
I believe the sabbaths are when we proclaim them.
A sabbath lasts at least 3 days, so to make it weekly is a bit hard.

These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations,
which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
Leviticus 23:3

Three times thou shalt keep a feast unto Me in the year.
...
Three times in the year all thy males shall appear before the Lord GOD.
Exodus 23:14 & 17

meshak
January 12th, 2019, 07:54 AM
Thank you Meshak.
No.
I believe the sabbaths are when we proclaim them.
A sabbath lasts at least 3 days, so to make it weekly is a bit hard.

These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations,
which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
Leviticus 23:3

Three times thou shalt keep a feast unto Me in the year.
...
Three times in the year all thy males shall appear before the Lord GOD.
Exodus 23:14 & 17

Here goes your friend, clefty. He is a SDA.

SDA is also trinity believers.

God's Truth
January 12th, 2019, 02:02 PM
Sorry Clefty, and GT,
it was GT who told me "can't do the commandments".
I got a bit confused as to who I was talking to.
I'm not used to who is who here yet.

God bless you both.

Can't do what commandments?!

God's Truth
January 12th, 2019, 02:24 PM
We have to have faith to obey...and stay obedient...He gives us His Spirit to do so...if His Father has called us
No one receives the Spirit unless they first believe and obey.

God's Truth
January 12th, 2019, 02:28 PM
Ha...yup lots of confusing misdirection in here...most of it following a jewish false witness that He changed the law or fulfilled it or abolished it some other way...


There was a change to that old law, see Hebrews 7:12.

clefty
January 12th, 2019, 02:50 PM
Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Romans 14 NO WHERE is about Sabbaths...but which days to fast on...the entire chapter is about food and diet...and fasting...some jews chose Tuesday Thursday some chose mon wed...

Not one mention of Sabbath...the chapter begins with “accept the one whose faith is weak without quarreling over disputeable things”...Sabbath was never a disputable matter...

clefty
January 12th, 2019, 02:53 PM
Thank you Meshak.
No.
I believe the sabbaths are when we proclaim them.
A sabbath lasts at least 3 days, so to make it weekly is a bit hard.

These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations,
which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
Leviticus 23:3

Three times thou shalt keep a feast unto Me in the year.
...
Three times in the year all thy males shall appear before the Lord GOD.
Exodus 23:14 & 17

Oh good grief...including Friday nights is babylon enough...now its three days long?

Please show your work...thanks...

clefty
January 12th, 2019, 02:55 PM
Here goes your friend, clefty. He is a SDA.

SDA is also trinity believers.

SDA’s did not start out as trinitariens is why the rest of christendom thought them a cult...

They gradually embraced it to get along...

They also don’t observe festival days

Or use proper names...racist anti semites...LOL...never gets old...

clefty
January 12th, 2019, 02:57 PM
No one receives the Spirit unless they first believe and obey.

Unless the Father draws him...

But yes faith compels works...

However you dont get to pick and choose what you obey...

meshak
January 12th, 2019, 03:01 PM
SDA’s did not start out as trinitariens is why the rest of christendom thought them a cult...

They gradually embraced it to get along...

They also don’t observe festival days

Or use proper names...racist anti semites...LOL...never gets old...

It is so sad that they went down to the world's level. They were pacifists too.

Pastor Bachelor do not embrace OSAS, but he gives high honor to John Calvin. I don't get it.

clefty
January 12th, 2019, 03:03 PM
There was a change to that old law, see Hebrews 7:12.


Yes cuz when you transfer the law from one administration to another you obviously have to transfer the law...

Or like when you change owners of property you have to transfer that property yes?

Here read...resting today too tired to type it all out for you

https://hoshanarabbah.org/blog/2013/08/22/hebrews-712/

Read and come to healing...Sabbath remains for good works...see? nothing’s changed...

God's Truth
January 12th, 2019, 03:43 PM
Yes cuz when you transfer the law from one administration to another you obviously have to transfer the law...

Or like when you change owners of property you have to transfer that property yes?

Here read...resting today too tired to type it all out for you

https://hoshanarabbah.org/blog/2013/08/22/hebrews-712/

Read and come to healing...Sabbath remains for good works...see? nothing’s changed...

You don't speak the truth.
There was a change to that old Law.

Stop adding and subtracting to God's Word. It is more dangerous of a thing to do than you think it is.

God's Truth
January 12th, 2019, 03:47 PM
Unless the Father draws him...
You don't understand that scripture. That scripture is explaining why some believed in Jesus when he was on earth and why other Jews didn't. It is because those Jews who didn't understand were cut off and hardened until Jesus was crucified.



But yes faith compels works...
You have to obey TO GET SAVED and you have to obey to stay saved.


However you dont get to pick and choose what you obey...
You have to believe and obey everything Jesus says. He will save you when he accepts you.

clefty
January 12th, 2019, 03:52 PM
You don't speak the truth.
There was a change to that old Law.

Stop adding and subtracting to God's Word. It is more dangerous of a thing to do than you think it is.

Please describe what changed from when He taught and lived the new covenant way and died signing it and sealing it with His death...you do accept that no changes are allowed to a sealed document last will and testament after the testator is dead yes?

So that change you speak of specifically to the Sabbath has to happen while Yahushua was still alive...before He was killed to sign and seal THAT NEW CHANGE into the new covenant...

So please show TOL where that change you claim took place...

Until you do let it be known that Luke was NOT lying when he wrote it was jewish FALSE WITNESS that claims as you did...namely that Yahushua changed the customs and laws...again if that were true and Stephen and Paul preached that then that accusation would be TRUE WITNESS...you do know how it works in court yes?

NO WITNESS was brought forth during the trial of Paul with evidence such as an epistle he wrote for instance or an eye witness retelling of his teaching it...that proved these jewish accusations...THEREFORE LUKE WAS CORRECT IN THAT THE CLAIM YOU AND THE JEWS MAKE THAT HE CHANGED THE LAW IS FALSE

Sorry my cap button got stuck...but please read it as slowly as I typed it to make sure you get it...got it?

clefty
January 12th, 2019, 04:05 PM
You don't understand that scripture. That scripture is explaining why some believed in Jesus when he was on earth and why other Jews didn't. It is because those Jews who didn't understand were cut off and hardened until Jesus was crucified.


You have to obey TO GET SAVED and you have to obey to stay saved.

You have to believe and obey everything Jesus says. He will save you when he accepts you.

You dont even obey everything Jesus says...

9/10ths maybe but then you steal worship from Him 8/10ths cuz you bare false witness of Him 7/10ths you take His name for no good 6/10ths you dishonor the heirarchy 5/10ths falsify Him and making a counterfeit 4/10ths 3/10ths killing the Spirit’s vibe 2/10ths and I guess just adulterating on His love 1/10th

Well good on you ...you unraveled the whole thing...

Proud of yourself?

comingfrom
January 12th, 2019, 07:44 PM
Can't do what commandments?!
My apologies if I didn't remember exactly what you wrote.

Remember ye the law of Moses My servant,
which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel,
with the statutes and judgments.
Malachi 4:4


No one receives the Spirit unless they first believe and obey.

And we have to know His law, to obey it.

Turn you at My reproof:
behold, I will pour out My spirit unto you,
I will make known My words unto you.
Proverbs 1:23


There was a change to that old law, see Hebrews 7:12.

Which commandment was changed? and to what?

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass,
one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:18

Far as I can tell, heaven and earth still exist.
Thank God.

comingfrom
January 12th, 2019, 07:53 PM
Oh good grief...including Friday nights is babylon enough...now its three days long?
LOL. So I won't babble on, I'll just show you the scripture.

We will go three days' journey into the wilderness,
and sacrifice to the LORD our God, as He shall command us.
Exodus 8:27



Please show your work...thanks...

And ye shall do no work in that same day:
for it is a day of atonement,
to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
Leviticus 23:28

comingfrom
January 12th, 2019, 08:06 PM
You don't speak the truth.
There was a change to that old Law.

Stop adding and subtracting to God's Word. It is more dangerous of a thing to do than you think it is.

Again, can you tell us specifically,
which commandment changed, and what it was changed to?
Since I am a debtor to keep the whole law, I need to know,
if what you say is true.

Bearing what you said in mind, of course.

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it,
that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Deuteronomy 4:2

What thing soever I command you, observe to do it:
thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
Deuteronomy 12:32

clefty
January 12th, 2019, 08:42 PM
LOL. So I won't babble on, I'll just show you the scripture.

We will go three days' journey into the wilderness,
and sacrifice to the LORD our God, as He shall command us.
Exodus 8:27


Why? Why did they need to use three days to celebrate?

“And Moses said, “It is not right to do so, for we would be sacrificing athe abomination of the Egyptians to the Lord our God. If we sacrifice the abomination of the Egyptians before their eyes, then will they not stone us?”

You do realize taking a group as large as they were would take one day in...do the sacrifice and one day back yes?

I mean they did have to go far enough as to not provoke the Egyptians for killing their god...





And ye shall do no work in that same day:
for it is a day of atonement,
to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
Leviticus 23:28

Yes because it was not a weekly Sabbath but came on the 10 day of the seventh month...as a yearly “your sabbath” vs weekly “My Sabbath”...and it began its afflicting the evening of the 9th...

Still a 24 hour two day event...

comingfrom
January 13th, 2019, 01:53 AM
Thank you, Clefty.


Why? Why did they need to use three days to celebrate?

“And Moses said, “It is not right to do so, for we would be sacrificing athe abomination of the Egyptians to the Lord our God. If we sacrifice the abomination of the Egyptians before their eyes, then will they not stone us?”

You do realize taking a group as large as they were would take one day in...do the sacrifice and one day back yes?

I mean they did have to go far enough as to not provoke the Egyptians for killing their god...



Come, and let us return unto the LORD:
for He hath torn, and He will heal us;
He hath smitten, and He will bind us up.
After two days will He revive us:
in the third day He will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight.
Hosea 6:1-2


Yes because it was not a weekly Sabbath but came on the 10 day of the seventh month...as a yearly “your sabbath” vs weekly “My Sabbath”...and it began its afflicting the evening of the 9th...

Still a 24 hour two day event...

Concerning the feasts of the LORD,
which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations,
even these are My feasts.
Six days shall work be done:
but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation;
ye shall do no work therein:
it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
These are the feasts of the LORD,
even holy convocations,
which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
Leviticus 23:2-4

A day to the Lord could be as a thousand years to us,
but I suggest we not leave it that long before we proclaim our next sabbath.
If you are tired of the world, or of life, and if you feel overcome,
then I suggest you need a rest, and some refreshment from the Lord.

In the New Testament, making a sabbath is called praying.
So pretty much all Christians make sabbaths / sacrifice to the Lord / offer themself up, one way or another,
unfortunately not many are bothering to check in the law, to see how God said to do it. And their ears are inclined to their fellows.

Ye shall do no servile work therein:
but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
Leviticus 23:25

clefty
January 13th, 2019, 03:57 AM
Thank you, Clefty.
Thank Yah...all this was from Him by His design...not our own ok?



Come, and let us return unto the LORD:
for He hath torn, and He will heal us;
He hath smitten, and He will bind us up.
After two days will He revive us:
in the third day He will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight.
Hosea 6:1-2 don’t see the Sabbath connection...maybe His arrest trial death burial and resurrection...maybe...ok no that was three days three nights like with Jonah...but is your sabbath 3 in 1 days or 2 in one?



Concerning the feasts of the LORD,
which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations,
even these are My feasts.
Six days shall work be done:
but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation;
ye shall do no work therein:
it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
These are the feasts of the LORD,
even holy convocations,
which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
Leviticus 23:2-4 yes familiar with this...nothing there about 2 days


A day to the Lord could be as a thousand years to us,
but I suggest we not leave it that long before we proclaim our next sabbath. right especially since it is repeated that they occur after six days...

If you are tired of the world, or of life, and if you feel overcome,
then I suggest you need a rest, and some refreshment from the Lord. ok yup thanks do that...


In the New Testament, making a sabbath is called praying. so the disciples were walking through the field while praying...or all that healing was done while prayning? Pharisees all bent out of shape over His disturbing their prayers...not sure I understand this “making a asabbth is called praying” pray without ceasing yes...some here claim everyday sabbaths...but well dont see it scripture yet...


So pretty much all Christians make sabbaths / sacrifice to the Lord / offer themself up, one way or another,
unfortunately not many are bothering to check in the law, to see how God said to do it. And their ears are inclined to their fellows. ok well I haven’t been shown your ways either...even by you...


Ye shall do no servile work therein:
but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
Leviticus 23:25

Yes this one is the day of trumpets 1st day of 7th month...and 10 days to prepare before day of atONEment

So ok then...this your 2 day sabbath thingy...I need more evidence from scripture...but thanks...

halleluYah may He lead...

comingfrom
January 13th, 2019, 03:47 PM
Thank you, Clefty.

I enjoy your posts.


Thank Yah...all this was from Him by His design...not our own ok?
All what?

Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day,
every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes.
For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to the inheritance,
which the LORD your God gives you.
Deuteronomy 12:8-9


don’t see the Sabbath connection...maybe His arrest trial death burial and resurrection...maybe...ok no that was three days three nights like with Jonah...but is your sabbath 3 in 1 days or 2 in one?

And they said, The God of the Hebrews has met with us:
let us go, we pray thee, three days' journey into the desert,
and sacrifice unto the LORD our God;
lest He fall upon us with pestilence, or with the sword.
Exodus 5:3


yes familiar with this...nothing there about 2 days

Pass through the host, and command the people, saying, Prepare you victuals;
for within three days ye shall pass over this Jordan, to go in to possess the land,
which the LORD your God gives you to possess it.
Joshua 1:11


right especially since it is repeated that they occur after six days...
ok yup thanks do that...

And she said unto them,
Get you to the mountain, lest the pursuers meet you;
and hide yourselves there three days, until the pursuers be returned:
and afterward may ye go your way.
Joshua 2:16


so the disciples were walking through the field while praying...or all that healing was done while prayning? Pharisees all bent out of shape over His disturbing their prayers...not sure I understand this “making a asabbth is called praying” pray without ceasing yes...some here claim everyday sabbaths...but well dont see it scripture yet...

When you offered yourself, your life, to Jesus,
did you come to Him like a bull? or did you come to Him like a suckling lamb?

He shall purify himself with it on the third day, and on the seventh day he shall be clean:
but if he purify not himself the third day, then the seventh day he shall not be clean.
Numbers 19:12



ok well I haven’t been shown your ways either...even by you...

And on the third day
eleven bullocks, two rams, fourteen lambs of the first year without blemish;
Numbers 29:20


Yes this one is the day of trumpets 1st day of 7th month...and 10 days to prepare before day of atONEment

Three times thou shalt keep a feast unto Me in the year.
Exodus 23:14


So ok then...this your 2 day sabbath thingy...I need more evidence from scripture...but thanks...

And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day
according to the scriptures:
1 Corinthians 15:4


halleluYah may He lead...

Amen Jonathan.

And David said unto Jonathan,
Behold, to morrow is the new moon,
and I should not fail to sit with the King at meat:
but let me go, that I may hide myself in the field unto the third day at even.
1 Samuel 20:5

comingfrom
January 13th, 2019, 04:09 PM
P.S. in regard to the months.


Yes this one is the day of trumpets 1st day of 7th month...and 10 days to prepare before day of atONEment

The months counted my duration into the feasts of weeks.
I didn't realize it at the time.
I didn't note when I started doing that commandment, and I wasn't counting the time, but looking back, I believe everything in Lev 23 occurred precisely to the day as the Lord said there.

genuineoriginal
January 14th, 2019, 05:44 PM
A sabbath lasts at least 3 days, so to make it weekly is a bit hard.
Could you explain how the seventh day of the seven day week can last at least 3 days?