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Squeaky
December 5th, 2017, 10:00 PM
The Origin of Gods Word.

Gods Word originated from God the Father. It had to be given to Jesus by the Father.

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(NKJ)

Gods Word did NOT originate from Jesus. Jesus got the Word from God the Father.


John 12:48-50
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
(NKJ)

Gods Word did NOT originate from the Holy Spirit. Jesus got the Word from God the Father, and the Holy Spirit only quotes what Jesus said.


John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
(NKJ)

The Holy Spirit is NOT allowed to speak to us any other way.


John 16:13-14
13 "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.
(NKJ)

This is where the Godhead came from. All three are rooted and grounded in the Word of God. All three only speak Gods Word. But only one of them is God. That would be the Father.

We are trying to deal with the Word of God in the very same way that Jesus dealt with the Word. He is our example. It didnt make Jesus God, and it isnt going to make us God.


John 17:1-3

1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)

1 Cor 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

Bright Raven
December 5th, 2017, 10:27 PM
The Word was in the beginning

John 1:1 King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

glorydaz
December 5th, 2017, 11:03 PM
The Word was in the beginning

John 1:1 King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,

patrick jane
December 5th, 2017, 11:10 PM
Squeaky, I'm surprised in all of your revelations from the Holy Spirit you get, that He hasn't told you about the Trinity.

dahelmang
December 5th, 2017, 11:53 PM
The Origin of Gods Word.

Gods Word originated from God the Father. It had to be given to Jesus by the Father.

John 1:1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(NKJ)

Gods Word did NOT originate from Jesus. Jesus got the Word from God the Father.


John 12:48-50
48"He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49"For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50"And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
(NKJ)

Gods Word did NOT originate from the Holy Spirit. Jesus got the Word from God the Father, and the Holy Spirit only quotes what Jesus said.


John 14:26
26"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
(NKJ)

The Holy Spirit is NOT allowed to speak to us any other way.


John 16:13-14
13"However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
14"He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.
(NKJ)

This is where the Godhead came from. All three are rooted and grounded in the Word of God. All three only speak Gods Word. But only one of them is God. That would be the Father.

We are trying to deal with the Word of God in the very same way that Jesus dealt with the Word. He is our example. It didnt make Jesus God, and it isnt going to make us God.


John 17:1-3

1Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2"as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3"And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

John 20:17
17Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)

1 Cor 8:5-6
5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
6yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)They are different in function, but one in essence. That is why Jesus says "I and the Father are one" John 10:30

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Squeaky
December 6th, 2017, 03:50 AM
The Word was in the beginning

John 1:1 King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

I said
I agree, the Word was with God even before Jesus was created. God used the Word to create Jesus.

Col 1:15
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(NKJ)

Squeaky
December 6th, 2017, 03:52 AM
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,

I said
John 1-14
I said
look at the word (made) in KJV. You have (became) in your version. Now look at some of the definitions--be divided, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled,. The flesh ended control and the Word took control. Became is a much better word. It wasnt a part of the original flesh but "became" part of the flesh. Most of the time when the Word is talking about the flesh it is talking about your emotions and feelings. And when it says to crucify your flesh with its emotions and feelings. Its talking about taking back control from them. And giving the control to the Word of God. The verses. If you can do that the Word becomes your flesh. Jesus gave total control to the Word of God.


John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
(NKJ)

John 1:14
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
(KJV)

1096 ginomai (ghin'-om-ahee);

a prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb; to cause to be ("gen"- erate), i.e. (reflexively) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (literal, figurative, intensive, etc.):

KJV-- arise, be assembled, be (-come, -fall, -haveself), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, X soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought.

xxxNow look at the last part of the verse. What is the glory of God that is full of grace and truth-His Word, spoke Word.

the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

xxxNow how did we receive that grace and truth?

John 1:17
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
(NKJ)

xxxNow how did Jesus get the Word?

2 Cor 5:18-19
18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
(NKJ)

John 12:48-50
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
(NKJ)

xxxIts obvious once you understand how John 1-1 was originally worded.

The KJV was taken from all these versions. The 1611 KJV was the one who added "He" in place of "IT". The He was added to give the Word authority. God is neither male nor female and we call Him a "He". The Holy Spirit is neither male nor female and we call Him a "He". He is a Spiritual title of authority. And the KJV wanted to give the Word(verses) the same title of authority. It was never meant to say that Jesus is the Word. The Word came through Jesus. And the Word can control flesh or become flesh.

Tyndale 1534:
Joh 1:1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God. 2 The same was in the beginnynge with God. 3 All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made. 4 In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men

Bishops 1568:
Joh 1:1 In the begynnyng was the worde, & the worde was with God: and that worde was God. 2 The same was in the begynnyng with God. 3 All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made. 4 In it was lyfe, and the lyfe was the lyght of men,

Geneva 1587:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. 2 This same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made. 4 In it was life, and that life was the light of men.

And now our modern Concordant Literal Version:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word. " 2 This was in the beginning toward God. 3 All came into being through it, and apart from it not even one thing came into being which has come into being." 4 In it was life, and the life was the light of men."

Squeaky
December 6th, 2017, 03:56 AM
Squeaky, I'm surprised in all of your revelations from the Holy Spirit you get, that He hasn't told you about the Trinity.

I said
lol How could He? When He only quotes verses, and the word trinity isn't in the bible any where. He did show me the only three in one god in the bible.

Rev 20:2
2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
(NKJ)

Squeaky
December 6th, 2017, 04:01 AM
They are different in function, but one in essence. That is why Jesus says "I and the Father are one" John 10:30

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I said
Jesus also prayed that we are one in essence with them in the same way. Do you think that being one makes you God?

John 17:22
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
(NKJ)

dahelmang
December 6th, 2017, 04:33 AM
I said
Jesus also prayed that we are one in essence with them in the same way. Do you think that being one makes you God?

John 17:22
22"And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
(NKJ)Interesting. I had not considered that.
What is the alternative then? Who else could have existed before creation? What do you make of Philippians 2:6-11?

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dahelmang
December 6th, 2017, 04:37 AM
I said
Jesus also prayed that we are one in essence with them in the same way. Do you think that being one makes you God?

John 17:22
22"And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
(NKJ)I should also point out Jesus is not praying that we would be one with God, but with each other.

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Squeaky
December 6th, 2017, 08:43 AM
Interesting. I had not considered that.
What is the alternative then? Who else could have existed before creation? What do you make of Philippians 2:6-11?

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I said
God was in Jesus. Jesus knew it. Jesus submitted to all that God told Him.

2 Cor 5:19-20
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God.
(NKJ)

John 14:10
10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
(NKJ)

dahelmang
December 6th, 2017, 09:04 AM
I said
God was in Jesus. Jesus knew it. Jesus submitted to all that God told Him.

2 Cor 5:19-20
19that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God.
(NKJ)

John 14:10
10"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
(NKJ)That is not inconsistent with the Trinity. Jesus and the Father are one, as they have always been. What is your point?

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meshak
December 6th, 2017, 09:33 AM
That is not inconsistent with the Trinity. Jesus and the Father are one, as they have always been. What is your point?

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Of course they are one.

No one dispute that.

That does not mean they make one God.

They are one in unity.

You added your own doctrine.

dahelmang
December 6th, 2017, 09:35 AM
Of course they are one.

No one dispute that.

That does not mean they make one God.

You added your own doctrine.Why doesn't it mean they are one God? Who else is one with God in the Bible?

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meshak
December 6th, 2017, 09:37 AM
Why doesn't it mean they are one God? Who else is one with God in the Bible?

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Because Jesus says it clearly that He cannot do anything on His own.

You dismiss inconvenient verses to make up your own doctrine.

meshak
December 6th, 2017, 09:39 AM
Squeaky, I will leave if you don't want me to contribute to this thread.

Squeaky
December 6th, 2017, 09:47 AM
That is not inconsistent with the Trinity. Jesus and the Father are one, as they have always been. What is your point?

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I said
Jesus and God are one in agreement. Jesus prays that we are one with them, in agreement. Read the OP the Word originated from God. The Word had to be given to Jesus. It didn't originate from Jesus.

Squeaky
December 6th, 2017, 09:53 AM
Why doesn't it mean they are one God? Who else is one with God in the Bible?

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I said
Jesus prays that we are one with them. To be one with God isn't going to make us God. Just like it didn't make Jesus into God.

John 17:22
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
(NKJ)

dahelmang
December 6th, 2017, 10:54 AM
I said
Jesus prays that we are one with them. To be one with God isn't going to make us God. Just like it didn't make Jesus into God.

John 17:22
22"And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
(NKJ)Right after He says that though, He says God loved Him before the creation of the world. How could this be if Jesus is not eternal like the Father?
“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.
John 17:24 NIV

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dahelmang
December 6th, 2017, 10:55 AM
I said
Jesus and God are one in agreement. Jesus prays that we are one with them, in agreement. Read the OP the Word originated from God. The Word had to be given to Jesus. It didn't originate from Jesus.The word that John refers to is Jesus. When Jesus talks about the word He doesn't mean the same thing.

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Squeaky
December 6th, 2017, 11:12 AM
Right after He says that though, He says God loved Him before the creation of the world. How could this be if Jesus is not eternal like the Father?
“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.
John 17:24 NIV

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I said
God was alone, so He created Jesus to have someone to love. Then God created everything else for Jesus. So Jesus would have someone to love.

Col 1:15
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(NKJ)

When you see where God created everything through Jesus. The word through means "reason for".

dahelmang
December 7th, 2017, 02:20 AM
I said
God was alone, so He created Jesus to have someone to love. Then God created everything else for Jesus. So Jesus would have someone to love.

Col 1:15
15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(NKJ)

When you see where God created everything through Jesus. The word through means "reason for".It says He was firstborn over all creation. That is His position. It does not mean He was created. If Jesus had been created He would not have claimed to be God. Yet this He did several times. For example:
But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?” “I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
Mark 14:61*-‬62 NIV
Now we Christians may not immediately understand "Son of Man" and "coming on the clouds of heaven", but it was at this point the High Priest decided Jesus had blasphemed. To understand why we look at the only other place in Scripture that these phrases are used:
“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
Daniel 7:13*-‬14 NIV
If Jesus is given authority, glory, sovereign power, and worship, how can He be less than God?

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meshak
December 7th, 2017, 04:24 AM
It says He was firstborn over all creation. That is His position. It does not mean He was created. If Jesus had been created He would not have claimed to be God. Yet this He did several times. For example:
But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?” “I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

I won't go into all your excuses but Jesus did not say "I am God". This is your own added supposition.

dahelmang
December 7th, 2017, 06:10 AM
I won't go into all your excuses but Jesus did not say "I am God". This is your own added supposition.How plainly does He have to state it for you to understand? That's why they killed Him. It was plain enough for the Jews tonunderstand. He was worshipped and did not stop people from worshipping Him, as any angel or the Apostles would have done. He said He is the alpha and the omega, the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven. He is called Emmanuel, God with us. If He were less than God, this would be blasphemy, the very thing the Jews accused Him of.

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meshak
December 7th, 2017, 06:54 AM
How plainly does He have to state it for you to understand? That's why they killed Him.

They don't have to have legit reason to kill Him.

They don't care about the truth.

dahelmang
December 7th, 2017, 08:05 AM
They don't have to have legit reason to kill Him.

They don't care about the truth.You're right, they don't have to have a legitimate reason to kill Him. But He corrected them on so many things, why wouldn't He correct them on a supposed misunderstanding? Did He want them to believe He was claiming to be God, but didn't want us to believe the same thing? Why? And why didn't He correct Thomas when he called Jesus "My Lord and my God"? If Jesus wasn't God, this was blasphemy as well.
I just don't understand how you came to this conclusion.

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meshak
December 7th, 2017, 09:24 AM
You're right, they don't have to have a legitimate reason to kill Him. But He corrected them on so many things,


Did He corrected them saying He is God? nope.

Your reasoning is so laim.

dahelmang
December 7th, 2017, 09:49 AM
Did He corrected them saying He is God? nope.

Your reasoning is so laim.As opposed to your lack of argument? Why are your trolling me?

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meshak
December 7th, 2017, 10:29 AM
As opposed to your lack of argument? Why are your trolling me?

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I am trolling?

How?

Squeaky
December 9th, 2017, 01:14 PM
That is not inconsistent with the Trinity. Jesus and the Father are one, as they have always been. What is your point?

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I said
Your wrong. If God was in Jesus that means Jesus was not God. If God could leave Jesus that would mean that Jesus is not God. And God left Jesus to die on the cross.

Mark 15:34
34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" which is translated, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"
(NKJ)

dahelmang
December 9th, 2017, 04:43 PM
I said
Your wrong. If God was in Jesus that means Jesus was not God. If God could leave Jesus that would mean that Jesus is not God. And God left Jesus to die on the cross.

Mark 15:34
34And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" which is translated, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"
(NKJ)That is a mysterious event, but your logic is faulty. Those ideas do not connect.
Besides, Jesus has been called God since the Old Testament:
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:6 NIV
And don't forget the name Emmanuel means God with us, which is exactly what Jesus was.
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
Isaiah 7:14 NIV

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