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jaybird
December 2nd, 2017, 09:54 PM
What is the benefit of believing it?
What is the benefit of not believing it?

meshak
December 2nd, 2017, 09:57 PM
good questions.

I cannot find any good or bad thing in it.

jaybird
December 2nd, 2017, 10:34 PM
good questions.

I cannot find any good or bad thing in it.

haha Meshak you really know how to stir up the controversy.

meshak
December 2nd, 2017, 10:38 PM
haha Meshak you really know how to stir up the controversy.


:)

Lon
December 2nd, 2017, 10:43 PM
What is the benefit of believing it?
I believe the benefit is to God. Men would have a different relationship between God and man, respectively (more on this next sentence). Others insist salvation is at stake. It makes the contention of primary and essential doctrine concern.


What is the benefit of not believing it?
I don't believe there is a benefit. It isn't honoring the Son 'just as' we honor the Father. John 5:23

I think the downside is that the Son is NOT honored just as the Father, but below Him and not with proper adoration and esteem.

Perhaps an Arian or Unitarian could answer. I see no benefit. It makes us more autonomous from God as far as I can see Colossians 1:17 John 15:5

glorydaz
December 2nd, 2017, 10:46 PM
I believe the benefit is to God. Men would have a different relationship between God and man, respectively (more on this next sentence).


I don't believe there is a benefit. It isn't honoring the Son 'just as' we honor the Father. John 5:23

I think the downside is that the Son is NOT honored just as the Father, but below Him and not with proper adoration and esteem.

Yep...this "lesser God" heresy is a result of refusing to acknowledge our God is Triune.

jaybird
December 2nd, 2017, 10:57 PM
I believe the benefit is to God. Men would have a different relationship between God and man, respectively (more on this next sentence). Others insist salvation is at stake. It makes the contention of primary and essential doctrine concern.


I don't believe there is a benefit. It isn't honoring the Son 'just as' we honor the Father. John 5:23

I think the downside is that the Son is NOT honored just as the Father, but below Him and not with proper adoration and esteem.

Perhaps an Arian or Unitarian could answer. I see no benefit. It makes us more autonomous from God as far as I can see Colossians 1:17 John 15:5

wouldnt that be the same for any of the Lords anointed? to rebel against the Lords anointed is to rebel against the Lord. like when those lions attacked those guys for calling Elijah names.

keypurr
December 2nd, 2017, 11:24 PM
What is the benefit of believing it?
What is the benefit of not believing it?
Only YHWH is the true God to think otherwise would be to break his commandments, God sent his son to teach us about himself.

The Trinity came from the pagans and enforced into the early church in the fourth century.

One must choose between what God tells us and what the early fathers did to please the pagan Emperor.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using TOL mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)

Lon
December 3rd, 2017, 12:38 AM
wouldnt that be the same for any of the Lords anointed? to rebel against the Lords anointed is to rebel against the Lord. like when those lions attacked those guys for calling Elijah names.
Well, you are tipping your hand as to where you adhere. Question: Would it be a grave error to be presumptuous? 1John 5:12 Matthew 7:21 says "I" never knew you, not "God" never knew you. Think about John 10:30. Even when Phillip asked 'show us the Father,' The Lord Jesus Christ asked 'how can you say show us the Father???" :doh: John 14:9 "Phillip, don't you know me????"

During incredibly important teaching, we need to be REALLY paying attention. I think God can save one who is inept, but to the one being lazy BUT having the ability to study and pay attention, that man/woman is being an unfaithful steward. Philippians 2:9-11 Such is WELL above any mere man. This is a 'oneness' as scripture says. John 17:21 Notice the prayer is that you and I, normal people, would be 'one' AS the Son and Father are one. Note two things: We will never be 'one' with the Father. Isaiah 55:8,9 Only Jesus can. It is an expression of what we see and mean by Triune. You and I can be on par with one another. Many wrongfully think 'we' will be on par with God. That was and is Satan's downfall. No scripture can possibly mean that. We all need to guard against Satan's errors and presumptions. Isaiah 14:14 If it is a sin for you and I and Satan and NOT for the Lord Jesus Christ, We MUST rethink what that means. Most Trinitarians do, by this token so I'm giving you reasons why. In this, the one that has the Son, then, really does have life. "Depart from me 'I' never knew you means we'd better get this particular right. In Our Lord, Savior and God. Titus 2:13 Titus HAS to be referring to the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior and God, btw. Isaiah 43:11

Lon
December 3rd, 2017, 12:46 AM
Only YHWH is the true God to think otherwise would be to break his commandments, God sent his son to teach us about himself. You made a 'logic' error here. It is an 'assumption.' YHWH means "God." You argue the Lord Jesus Christ is not YHWH as if He is a man, that He is constrained by flesh and our "Physical" three dimensional thinking. God is well beyond your and my incredibly finite thinking and theories. Whatever is 'impossible' for you isn't for God, Keypurr. Matthew 19:26


The Trinity came from the pagans and enforced into the early church in the fourth century.
Meh, says you. John 1:1; 20:28 say differently (among many scriptures all listed for your perusal in my non-debate thread. Read it. Your accusation is remiss.


One must choose between what God tells us and what the early fathers did to please the pagan Emperor.

Nope. Pure speculation and assertions of your guesses and imaginings. I've been all over the Church Fathers. Some had juvenile theologies, but that doesn't mean they remained there. You realize don't you, that a few of them didn't have access to the Gospel of John, for instance.

oatmeal
December 3rd, 2017, 01:50 AM
What is the benefit of believing it?
What is the benefit of not believing it?

If you do believe it you will be in the majority in this website and in Christendom in general. However truth is given by God not by popular vote.

If you do not believe in it, the benefits are many, possibly more than can be listed.

Not in any order:

1. God remains supreme as the one true God

2. Jesus Christ the son of God is the perfect example of what God designed humans to be capable of when they believe and love God our heavenly Father.

3. People would have the rightly divided word of truth instead of error and confusion.

4. Our redemption would be real instead of being based on false pretenses

That should be enough for now.

Although I stated in the beginning of this post that the list is in no particular order, I will state that the list is in the proper order.

After all, we are are to love God with all our heart and all our soul and with all our strength and with all our mind.

Knowing that Jesus the anointed is not "God the Son" but rather the son of God lets us distinguish who should be the recipient of our believing the first and great commandment.

Jesus Christ does not qualify to be the recipient the first and great commandment for he is not the Lord our God, but the son of the Lord our God.

Thus we give God only what is due to God only.

Jesus Christ is one of the neighbors who we love as we love ourselves.

Thus we keep our priorities straight without making an idol out of the son of God.

To elaborate on point 4, the Passover lamb was to be chosen out of the flock. God is not part of the flock. Jesus Christ as the prophet of whom Moses said, God would raise him up out from the brethren, God is not a brethren, God is God, our brothers are human, so Jesus is human, not God

So again illustrating the thinking mind can recognize that things or beings that are different are different, not the same.

Thus we please God for distinguishing between and believing God's testimony regarding himself, and regarding His son

Lazy afternoon
December 3rd, 2017, 02:35 AM
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

meshak
December 3rd, 2017, 08:30 AM
why do you guys argue so much about the doctrines?

so much so that you persecute fellow Jesus' servants because they don't agree with your doctrines.

So I guess it is nothing good come out of this doctrine becaseu of above reason.

Jesus says we know them by their fruit.

Jesus does not care how much you know or knowledge of the Scripture if we don't have the fruit of Spirit.

my two cents.

Squeaky
December 3rd, 2017, 08:45 AM
What is the benefit of believing it?
What is the benefit of not believing it?

I said
There is rules given to us to find the truth in the Word. Don't think beyond what is written, and don't add one thing to the verses or take one thing away from the verses. If one follows these rules of believing they will grow in knowledge.
If one does not follow these rules they will grow in deception. It is that simple. And trinity is no where in the whole bible.


1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)

jaybird
December 3rd, 2017, 08:53 AM
Well, you are tipping your hand as to where you adhere. Question: Would it be a grave error to be presumptuous? 1John 5:12 Matthew 7:21 says "I" never knew you, not "God" never knew you. Think about John 10:30. Even when Phillip asked 'show us the Father,' The Lord Jesus Christ asked 'how can you say show us the Father???" :doh: John 14:9 "Phillip, don't you know me????"

During incredibly important teaching, we need to be REALLY paying attention. I think God can save one who is inept, but to the one being lazy BUT having the ability to study and pay attention, that man/woman is being an unfaithful steward. Philippians 2:9-11 Such is WELL above any mere man. This is a 'oneness' as scripture says. John 17:21 Notice the prayer is that you and I, normal people, would be 'one' AS the Son and Father are one. Note two things: We will never be 'one' with the Father. Isaiah 55:8,9 Only Jesus can. It is an expression of what we see and mean by Triune. You and I can be on par with one another. Many wrongfully think 'we' will be on par with God. That was and is Satan's downfall. No scripture can possibly mean that. We all need to guard against Satan's errors and presumptions. Isaiah 14:14 If it is a sin for you and I and Satan and NOT for the Lord Jesus Christ, We MUST rethink what that means. Most Trinitarians do, by this token so I'm giving you reasons why. In this, the one that has the Son, then, really does have life. "Depart from me 'I' never knew you means we'd better get this particular right. In Our Lord, Savior and God. Titus 2:13 Titus HAS to be referring to the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior and God, btw. Isaiah 43:11

im not a big believer in the trinity so there you are. i try not to be anti trin, im not going to tell you your going to hell for believing it, or not a Christian, unlike what i have been called.
IMO honoring the Son would be accepting He was the Christ, accepting His authority given to Him by the Father.

oatmeal
December 3rd, 2017, 09:37 AM
If you do believe it you will be in the majority in this website and in Christendom in general. However truth is given by God not by popular vote.

If you do not believe in it, the benefits are many, possibly more than can be listed.

Not in any order:

1. God remains supreme as the one true God

2. Jesus Christ the son of God is the perfect example of what God designed humans to be capable of when they believe and love God our heavenly Father.

3. People would have the rightly divided word of truth instead of error and confusion.

4. Our redemption would be real instead of being based on false pretenses

That should be enough for now.

Although I stated in the beginning of this post that the list is in no particular order, I will state that the list is in the proper order.

After all, we are are to love God with all our heart and all our soul and with all our strength and with all our mind.

Knowing that Jesus the anointed is not "God the Son" but rather the son of God lets us distinguish who should be the recipient of our believing the first and great commandment.

Jesus Christ does not qualify to be the recipient the first and great commandment for he is not the Lord our God, but the son of the Lord our God.

Thus we give God only what is due to God only.

Jesus Christ is one of the neighbors who we love as we love ourselves.

Thus we keep our priorities straight without making an idol out of the son of God.

To elaborate on point 4, the Passover lamb was to be chosen out of the flock. God is not part of the flock. Jesus Christ as the prophet of whom Moses said, God would raise him up out from the brethren, God is not a brethren, God is God, our brothers are human, so Jesus is human, not God

So again illustrating the thinking mind can recognize that things or beings that are different are different, not the same.

Thus we please God for distinguishing between and believing God's testimony regarding himself, and regarding His son

Jesus Christ being human only destroys the fallacy that God's design for man as weak and inept, ie, commonly stated as "mere man" is exactly that, a fallacy.

After all, After God was done with his works in Genesis 1 including man and woman, He said it was all what?

a. mere, weak and inept

b. good, even very good.

God's design for man is very good.

Part of that very good is the giving of free will, ie, the ability to make decisions and to act upon them, which of course is a two sided coin.

Man can choose to do good by believing, obeying and loving God or do the weak, inept and mere by not believing, obeying and loving God.

We, most often see the weak and inept but we have many witnesses of God being pleased with the actions of believers as in Hebrews 11 where God points out some the them and what they did that pleased God.

Jesus Christ could have been a mere man, but he chose to believe, obey and love God first and foremost with all his heart and all his soul and with all his strength and with all his mind.

meshak
December 3rd, 2017, 09:37 AM
im not a big believer in the trinity so there you are. i try not to be anti trin, im not going to tell you your going to hell for believing it, or not a Christian, unlike what i have been called.
IMO honoring the Son would be accepting He was the Christ, accepting His authority given to Him by the Father.

Yes, it is that simple.

too many of us make simple gospel so complicated.

so sad.

Lon
December 3rd, 2017, 06:02 PM
IMO honoring the Son would be accepting He was the Christ, accepting His authority given to Him by the Father.
Right, but opinions aren't facts or truth. Let me ask you to reread my post, meditate upon the scriptures and weigh the warnings therein.

I'll pray as you do so. We are trying to follow Him, not follow our own ideas and opinions. I agree with Modalists/Oneness Pentecostals on about half of their theology, and I agree with Arians/Unitarians on about half of their theology, to the extent that both are expressly and pedantically given in scripture. The Modalists are right, there is ONLY one God. Unitarians are right: The Lord Jesus Christ is not the Father, and in the flesh, has a God. John 1:1 conflates what would be simple for an Arian/Unitarian however (as do John 8:58 and 20:28) "was God" AND was somehow 'with God' at the same time. I can't be beside myself, you can't be beside yourself. Somehow, God can. Again, if we are to honor the Son, we'd have to give Him His exact due. "Just as the Father" means 'exactly as.' If you really understand that scripture, it HAS to be an equation, an equatedness on par. There is no way 'just as' can mean anything else. Again, prayerfully submitted, that we'd both truly honor the Son. -Lon

jaybird
December 3rd, 2017, 06:22 PM
Right, but opinions aren't facts or truth. Let me ask you to reread my post, meditate upon the scriptures and weigh the warnings therein.

I'll pray as you do so. We are trying to follow Him, not follow our own ideas and opinions. I agree with Modalists/Oneness Pentecostals on about half of their theology, and I agree with Arians/Unitarians on about half of their theology, to the extent that both are expressly and pedantically given in scripture. The Modalists are right, there is ONLY one God. Unitarians are right: The Lord Jesus Christ is not the Father, and in the flesh, has a God. John 1:1 conflates what would be simple for an Arian/Unitarian however (as do John 8:58 and 20:28) "was God" AND was somehow 'with God' at the same time. I can't be beside myself, you can't be beside yourself. Somehow, God can. Again, if we are to honor the Son, we'd have to give Him His exact due. "Just as the Father" means 'exactly as.' If you really understand that scripture, it HAS to be an equation, an equatedness on par. There is no way 'just as' can mean anything else. Again, prayerfully submitted, that we'd both truly honor the Son. -Lon

my opinion is not the final authority for sure, but if i cant trust the spirit to lead me to an opinion then i am left with following a group to make an opinion rather than the spirit.

if a trinitarian and unitarian both die and go to heaven, and both reached their opinions because they were seeking the Father just as Jesus taught, i dont think they are going to be judged that harshly if one made a mistake in his theology.

Lon
December 3rd, 2017, 06:44 PM
if a trinitarian and unitarian both die and go to heaven, and both reached their opinions because they were seeking the Father just as Jesus taught, i dont think they are going to be judged that harshly if one made a mistake in his theology.
Jeremiah 29:13 Seeking Him fervently, is how we'd find Him. 1John 5:12 Matthew 7:23

We should read more (and more) opinionate less. We need to know the Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:2 John 5:23

jamie
December 3rd, 2017, 06:54 PM
Jesus said there is one true God.

Scripture says Jesus is his servant.

"The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus" (Acts 3:13)

Ask Mr. Religion
December 3rd, 2017, 08:00 PM
What is the benefit of believing it?
What is the benefit of not believing it?

The practical benefits (versus theological and soteriological) of the Trinity are numerous.

For me, a brief sentence or so answer would be:
A practical view of the Trinity impacts the way we worship, pray, relate to (or love) others, and how we are to deal with suffering.

No doubt someone on the pastor's search committee would then ask for some elaboration, given how a brief sentence or so would only tease the need for more elaboration.

Hence...

If we think about a Father, we necessarily think about a Son. Sons resemble their fathers, so God the Son resembles God the Father. God the Father possesses the divine essence, so God the Son must possess the divine essence. But God the Son is not God the Father. God the Father is not God the Son. Here then is where a practical view of the Trinity can teach us that there must be distinctions between the Persons of the Trinity: what each Person does, how each Person relates to the others, and so forth.

Accordingly, once we begin thinking about any one of the divine Persons, we immediately realize that two other Persons must exist as well. Scripture often describes the Son as the Word of God, and the Spirit as the Breath of God. If there is a Word (God the Son), then there must be a Speaker (God the Father). Likewise, if there is a Speaker (God the Father) there must also be a Word (God the Son). Yet there must also be a Breath (God the Holy Spirit), Who carries forth the Word that the Speaker says.

A practical view of the doctrine of the Trinity gives direction to our prayers, by reminding us that our prayers are founded upon the Trinitarian view of grace—access to God the Father that is freely ours by the God the Holy Spirit in the name of God the Son.

A practical doctrine of the Trinity teaches us to approach God in humility, as adopted children, purely by His grace. The doctrine of the Trinity also teaches us the true meaning of love, because it shows us the humility and sacrificial nature of God at work.

The doctrine of the Trinity drives us to the Cross, where the cross itself only makes sense to a Trinitarian eye. On the cross, an innocent Son is not being punished by an impassive Father for others' sins. The cross is a reminder to believers that they should not be surprised when (not if) they suffer. When we reflect on the achievement made actual by the suffering of God the Son, we gain perspective about our own suffering, enabling us to see that to suffer for God the Son is to suffer with God the Son. And when we are in the midst of despair and suffering, this knowledge is immensely practical.

Further,

The doctrine of the Trinity describes the name of our God, who is unlike any of the other pretenders to the throne.

The doctine of the Trinity names our God. This trinitarian name reminds the Christian of what the Father has done for me by the Son and does in me by the Holy Spirit.

In particular, understanding a little about the Trinity will encourage and help us to grow more like Jesus and to love one another.

But this raises a question: if the Father and Son both possess all the divine attributes, what is the difference between them? The answer is simple: they are distinguished by the relationship between them.

As to the practical benefits of not believing the Trinity, there are none. Those that vehemently deny (http://theologyonline.com/poll.php?pollid=1395&do=showresults) this essential of the faith have no claim to the label Christian. To deny this is to deny Our Lord Himself at one's eternal peril.

AMR

jaybird
December 3rd, 2017, 09:09 PM
Jeremiah 29:13 Seeking Him fervently, is how we'd find Him. 1John 5:12 Matthew 7:23

We should read more (and more) opinionate less. We need to know the Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:2 John 5:23

when Yeshua teaches things such as we have to become like children to enter the kingdom, not everyone comes to the same conclusion of what Jesus is teaching. the conclusion i have i call an opinion.

i personally believe i should read less and do more. the pharisee leaders were very well read, but their actions were garbage, Jesus wqas very critical of this. do what they teach, dont do what they do.

Squeaky
December 3rd, 2017, 09:29 PM
when Yeshua teaches things such as we have to become like children to enter the kingdom, not everyone comes to the same conclusion of what Jesus is teaching. the conclusion i have i call an opinion.

i personally believe i should read less and do more. the pharisee leaders were very well read, but their actions were garbage, Jesus wqas very critical of this. do what they teach, dont do what they do.

I said
You could always just believe Jesus. Jesus said the Father is the only true God.

John 17:1-3

1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

Or you could believe Paul. When Paul said "yet for us there is one God the Father.

1 Cor 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

meshak
December 3rd, 2017, 09:31 PM
Why you guys do not respect His word?

Jesus says we know them by their fruit.

Why is that so hard to understand?

meshak
December 3rd, 2017, 09:33 PM
What did Trinitarians do using the doctrine of trinity?

meshak
December 3rd, 2017, 09:35 PM
Trinitarians did exactly what Pharisees did; persecuting the spiritual enemy.

That is their fruit.

Lon
December 3rd, 2017, 09:47 PM
when Yeshua teaches things such as we have to become like children to enter the kingdom, not everyone comes to the same conclusion of what Jesus is teaching. the conclusion i have i call an opinion.

i personally believe i should read less and do more. the pharisee leaders were very well read, but their actions were garbage, Jesus wqas very critical of this. do what they teach, dont do what they do.
There, you said it: Do what they 'teach.' You have to 'know.' James, who focusses on works, also says, it is like one who reads scripture and doesn't do it as compared to a man who looks into a mirror. Both of them are gazing at something. Jesus told us that what comes out of us makes us clean or unclean. So, here is my thought: Do a LOT to know Him and you cannot help, but be like Him. We are like those we spend the most time with. The best way to do that with our Savior is reading His word faithfully.

jaybird
December 3rd, 2017, 10:02 PM
Jesus says we know them by their fruit.


this is one of my favorite teachings.

the Cathars were a group of Christians that lived in France in the middle ages, they loved Jesus, fed the hungry, helped the sick, they were even happy to live side by side with roman Christians, thats good fruit in my opinion, but they had different theology and therefore a crusade was ordered against them.

jaybird
December 3rd, 2017, 10:06 PM
There, you said it: Do what they 'teach.' You have to 'know.' James, who focusses on works, also says, it is like one who reads scripture and doesn't do it as compared to a man who looks into a mirror. Both of them are gazing at something. Jesus told us that what comes out of us makes us clean or unclean. So, here is my thought: Do a LOT to know Him and you cannot help, but be like Him. We are like those we spend the most time with. The best way to do that with our Savior is reading His word faithfully.

i agree, let our actions speak for us, let the example of Christ define our actions.

meshak
December 3rd, 2017, 10:51 PM
You have to 'know.' James, who focusses on works,

Fruit is works.

meshak
December 3rd, 2017, 11:07 PM
James says faith without works is dead.

And his word harmonize with Jesus' word of "we know them by their fruit".

meshak
December 3rd, 2017, 11:10 PM
Fruit of spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness and self control.

This is the most noble word of Paul which Jesus' core teaching.

Bright Raven
December 4th, 2017, 06:02 PM
I said
You could always just believe Jesus. Jesus said the Father is the only true God.

John 17:1-3

1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

Or you could believe Paul. When Paul said "yet for us there is one God the Father.

1 Cor 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

You need to add verses 5-6

John 17:4-5 New International Version (NIV)

4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Reconcile 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 with Colossians 1:15-20.

Lazy afternoon
December 4th, 2017, 06:11 PM
You need to add verses 5-6

John 17:4-5 New International Version (NIV)

4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Reconcile 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 with Colossians 1:15-20.

The promise was in Gods heart before the world began.

1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

LA

genuineoriginal
December 4th, 2017, 06:26 PM
Benefit of trinity
What is the benefit of believing it?
You can handle the cognitive dissonance that happens when considering whether God would give a man so much power and authority that he becomes second to God Himself.

What is the benefit of not believing it?
You can base your beliefs on what the Bible actually says instead of trying to find isolated verses to use to make the Bible to fit your beliefs.

jaybird
December 4th, 2017, 10:15 PM
one of the benefits i see in not believing it, a believer can pray and worship the same as Yeshua did.

Squeaky
December 5th, 2017, 10:22 AM
You need to add verses 5-6

John 17:4-5 New International Version (NIV)

4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Reconcile 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 with Colossians 1:15-20.

I said
lol Who is Jesus praying to ? The very same Father that He was praying to in John 17-1,3
The very same Father that Jesus called "the only True God"

John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

Who gave Jesus the work to do on earth. Who is Jesus answering to. God doesn't answer to anyone. And no one gives God work to do. It has always amazed me how you can miss that simple connection.

You can read one verse or 4 verses they all say the same thing. Verse 4 No other God but one. Verse 6 yet for us there is only one God the Father.

1 Cor 8:3-6
3 But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him.
4 Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one.
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

Squeaky
December 5th, 2017, 10:27 AM
one of the benefits i see in not believing it, a believer can pray and worship the same as Yeshua did.

I said

Matt 20:23
23 So He said to them, "You will indeed drink My cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with; but to sit on My right hand and on My left is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it is prepared by My Father."
(NKJ)

THE DEITY OF SATAN

xxxThe devil is a deity.

4567 Satanas (sat-an-as');

of Aramaic origin corresponding to 4566 (with the definite affix); the accuser, i.e. the devil:

KJV-- Satan.

1140 daimonion (dahee-mon'-ee-on);

neuter of a derivative of 1142; a daemonic being; by extension a deity:

KJV-- devil, god.

The only three in one trinity god in the bible is the dragon, devil, satan.

2316 theos (theh'-os);

of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with 3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very:

KJV-- X exceeding, God, god [-ly, -ward].


2 Cor 11:14-15
14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
(NKJ)

II Th 2:4
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
(NKJ)

xxx There is only one three in one god in the whole bible. Satan is useing the trinity to mock the living God.

Rev 20:2
2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
(NKJ)