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Squeaky
November 14th, 2017, 03:26 PM
Being Rich Is A Sin

2 Cor 8:12-15
12 For if there is first a willing mind, it is accepted according to what one has, and not according to what he does not have.
13 For I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened;
14 but by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may supply their lack, that their abundance also may supply your lack-- that there may be equality.
15 As it is written, "He who gathered much had nothing left over, and he who gathered little had no lack."
1 Cor 16:2-4
2 On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.
3 And when I come, whomever you approve by your letters I will send to bear your gift to Jerusalem.
4 But if it is fitting that I go also, they will go with me.
3 Jn 1:2-8
2 Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers.
3 For I rejoiced greatly when brethren came and testified of the truth that is in you, just as you walk in the truth.
4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
5 Beloved, you do faithfully whatever you do for the brethren and for strangers,
6 who have borne witness of your love before the church. If you send them forward on their journey in a manner worthy of God, you will do well,
7 because they went forth for His name's sake, taking nothing from the Gentiles.
8 We therefore ought to receive such, that we may become fellow workers for the truth.
James 2:5-9
5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?
6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts?
7 Do they not blaspheme that noble name by which you are called?
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well;
9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
Rev 3:17-18
17 "Because you say, 'I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing'-- and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked--
18 "I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.
Matt 23:1-9
1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples,
2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3 "Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.
4 "For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5 "But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments.
6 "They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues,
7 "greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, 'Rabbi, Rabbi.'
8 "But you, do not be called 'Rabbi'; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren.
9 "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.
James 1:9-10
9 Let the lowly brother glory in his exaltation,
10 but the rich in his humiliation, because as a flower of the field he will pass away.
James 5:1-6
1 Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you!
2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten.
3 Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days.
4 Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth.
5 You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as in a day of slaughter.
6 You have condemned, you have murdered the just; he does not resist you.
1 Tim 6:10-12
10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11 But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness.
12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
(NKJ)

xxx You can only be rich in money by holding back from others what God has demanded you give.

Squeaky
November 14th, 2017, 03:28 PM
RICH IN FAITH

2 Cor 8:9
9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich.
2 Cor 6:4-10
4 But in all things we commend ourselves as ministers of God: in much patience, in tribulations, in needs, in distresses,
5 in stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labors, in sleeplessness, in fastings;
6 by purity, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Spirit, by sincere love,
7 by the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armor of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
8 by honor and dishonor, by evil report and good report; as deceivers, and yet true;
9 as unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and behold we live; as chastened, and yet not killed;
10 as sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.
James 2:5-7
5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?
6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts?
7 Do they not blaspheme that noble name by which you are called?
James 2:12
12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.
James 5:1-6
1 Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you!
2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten.
3 Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days.
4 Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth.
5 You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as in a day of slaughter.
6 You have condemned, you have murdered the just; he does not resist you.
Rev 3:17-19
17 "Because you say, 'I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing'-- and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked--
18 "I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.
19 "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.
3 Jn 1:2-8
2 Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers.
3 For I rejoiced greatly when brethren came and testified of the truth that is in you, just as you walk in the truth.
4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
5 Beloved, you do faithfully whatever you do for the brethren and for strangers,
6 who have borne witness of your love before the church. If you send them forward on their journey in a manner worthy of God, you will do well,
7 because they went forth for His name's sake, taking nothing from the Gentiles.
8 We therefore ought to receive such, that we may become fellow workers for the truth.
(NKJ)

oatmeal
November 14th, 2017, 05:58 PM
So where is the verse that says being rich is sin?

Most certainly being rich has its peculiar set of temptations bit so does being poor and so does being married and so does being a child

Squeaky
November 14th, 2017, 07:05 PM
lol Do you know what sin is? Anything not done in faith is sin. A rich person lacks one thing in order to have treasures in heaven.

Luke 18:22-23
22 So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
23 But when he heard this, he became very sorrowful, for he was very rich.
(NKJ)

Rom 14:23
23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.
(NKJ)

Squeaky
November 14th, 2017, 07:07 PM
So where is the verse that says being rich is sin?

Most certainly being rich has its peculiar set of temptations bit so does being poor and so does being married and so does being a child

I said
Lets have a little spiritual test. Do you see any sin in this statement?

1 Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you!
2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten.
3 Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days.
4 Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth.
5 You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as in a day of slaughter.
6 You have condemned, you have murdered the just; he does not resist you.

oatmeal
November 14th, 2017, 07:29 PM
I said
Lets have a little spiritual test. Do you see any sin in this statement?

1 Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you!
2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten.
3 Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days.
4 Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth.
5 You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as in a day of slaughter.
6 You have condemned, you have murdered the just; he does not resist you.

So you are saying that Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and Joseph and David and Solomon and Hezekiah and Jehosaphat and Joseph of Aramithea and Esther and Boaz and Job and other blessed and prosperous believers were sinning because they were rich?

Show me where Abraham sinned because he was rich.

And the others as well. Solomon when he walked with God was very blessed

WeberHome
November 14th, 2017, 08:21 PM
-
There will be far and away many more liars in hell than rich seeing as how nobody is 100% honest.

● Rev 21:8 . . All liars-- their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.

Squeaky
November 14th, 2017, 08:53 PM
So you are saying that Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and Joseph and David and Solomon and Hezekiah and Jehosaphat and Joseph of Aramithea and Esther and Boaz and Job and other blessed and prosperous believers were sinning because they were rich?

Show me where Abraham sinned because he was rich.

And the others as well. Solomon when he walked with God was very blessed

I said
lol Doesn't anyone read the bible anymore. Is a thief and a robber sinning?

John 10:7-8
7 Then Jesus said to them again, "Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
(NKJ)

Squeaky
November 14th, 2017, 08:55 PM
-
There will be far and away many more liars in hell than rich seeing as how nobody is 100% honest.

● Rev 21:8 . . All liars-- their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.



I said
Your wrong, Jesus was 100% honest.

Ktoyou
November 14th, 2017, 09:10 PM
being a lazy dumbo is just as much a sin. :Plain:

drbrumley
November 14th, 2017, 09:10 PM
So Squeaky, how much wealth is being rich?

Squeaky
November 14th, 2017, 09:52 PM
So Squeaky, how much wealth is being rich?

I said
lol That's new, and honest question. No sarcasm, no insults. Society sets the limit on a lot of things. Like what rich is, accountable age for children. The last I heard in 2000 was 150,000 dollars annual income. I know know today.

Squeaky
November 14th, 2017, 09:57 PM
Let me ask you all a question. Why do I get so much sarcasm, and insults when all I'm doing is showing you what the bible says? A real born again Christian either rebuts with scripture or moves on, or asks a question.

Judson50
November 14th, 2017, 09:57 PM
I think that’s a very short sighted view of the verses you quoted.

If God Chose to bless you with lots of money, then you should use it to bless others.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

drbrumley
November 14th, 2017, 10:05 PM
I said
lol That's new, and honest question. No sarcasm, no insults None intended...as is the following


Society sets the limit on a lot of things. Like what rich is, accountable age for children. The last I heard in 2000 was 150,000 dollars annual income. I know know today.

But you said "Being rich is a sin" did you not?

Question: Does God determine being rich a sin based on what society says? Because it seems that is what your saying....clarification please.

Squeaky
November 14th, 2017, 10:17 PM
None intended...as is the following



But you said "Being rich is a sin" did you not?

Question: Does God determine being rich a sin based on what society says? Because it seems that is what your saying....clarification please.

I said
Yes what society says is rich. Man has a measurement.

Squeaky
November 14th, 2017, 10:19 PM
I think that’s a very short sighted view of the verses you quoted.

If God Chose to bless you with lots of money, then you should use it to bless others.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

I said
That is true. And if you blessed others as much as you should. you wouldn't be rich anymore. You wouldn't have anything left over.

2 Cor 8:12-15
12 For if there is first a willing mind, it is accepted according to what one has, and not according to what he does not have.
13 For I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened;
14 but by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may supply their lack, that their abundance also may supply your lack-- that there may be equality.
15 As it is written, "He who gathered much had nothing left over, and he who gathered little had no lack."

ffreeloader
November 14th, 2017, 10:45 PM
Squeaky,

You seem to be making a big deal out of a few texts and ignoring everything else God has ever said on the subject.


Deuteronomy 28: 9 (sword:///Deuteronomy 28:9) The Lord will establish you as a people holy to himself, as he has sworn to you, if you keep the commandments of the Lord your God and walk in his ways. 10 (sword:///Deuteronomy 28:10) And all the peoples of the earth shall see that you are called by the name of the Lord, and they shall be afraid of you. 11 (sword:///Deuteronomy 28:11) And the Lord will make you abound in prosperity, in the fruit of your womb and in the fruit of your livestock and in the fruit of your ground, within the land that the Lord swore to your fathers to give you. 12 (sword:///Deuteronomy 28:12) The Lord will open to you his good treasury, the heavens, to give the rain to your land in its season and to bless all the work of your hands. And you shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow. 13 (sword:///Deuteronomy 28:13) And the Lord will make you the head and not the tail, and you shall only go up and not down, if you obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you today, being careful to do them,


IKings 3: 10 (sword:///I Kings 3:10) It pleased the Lord that Solomon had asked this. 11 (sword:///I Kings 3:11) And God said to him, “Because you have asked this, and have not asked for yourself long life or riches or the life of your enemies, but have asked for yourself understanding to discern what is right, 12 (sword:///I Kings 3:12) behold, I now do according to your word. Behold, I give you a wise and discerning mind, so that none like you has been before you and none like you shall arise after you. 13 (sword:///I Kings 3:13) I give you also what you have not asked, both riches and honor, so that no other king shall compare with you, all your days.


IKings 10: 14 (sword:///I Kings 10:14) Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was 666 talents of gold, 15 (sword:///I Kings 10:15) besides that which came from the explorers and from the business of the merchants, and from all the kings of the west and from the governors of the land. 16 (sword:///I Kings 10:16) King Solomon made 200 large shields of beaten gold; 600 shekels of gold went into each shield. 17 (sword:///I Kings 10:17) And he made 300 shields of beaten gold; three minas of gold went into each shield. And the king put them in the House of the Forest of Lebanon. 18 (sword:///I Kings 10:18) The king also made a great ivory throne and overlaid it with the finest gold. 19 (sword:///I Kings 10:19) The throne had six steps, and at the back of the throne was a calf's head, and on each side of the seat were armrests and two lions standing beside the armrests, 20 (sword:///I Kings 10:20) while twelve lions stood there, one on each end of a step on the six steps. The like of it was never made in any kingdom. 21 (sword:///I Kings 10:21) All King Solomon's drinking vessels were of gold, and all the vessels of the House of the Forest of Lebanon were of pure gold. None were of silver; silver was not considered as anything in the days of Solomon. 22 (sword:///I Kings 10:22) For the king had a fleet of ships of Tarshish at sea with the fleet of Hiram. Once every three years the fleet of ships of Tarshish used to come bringing gold, silver, ivory, apes, and peacocks.

Do you know what a talent of gold weighed? It was 250 lbs. Try multiplying 250 times 666 to see how many pounds that is. There are 14.5833 troy ounces in a pound of gold as precious metals are weighed by the troy ounce. The price of gold today is $1280/oz. That's the spot Monex price. What is Solomon's income in gold alone worth today? $3,107,999,289.60 That is only a portion of Solomon's income every year.

I'd say God made Solomon extremely wealthy. So, basically you're saying God is the author of sin. That He caused Solomon to sin because God said He would give Solomon wealth. God made that same promise to the enitire nation of Israel. See the quote from Deuteronomy 28 above. The nation of Israel was to be the head and not the tail. The were to never have to borrow, but would be lenders instead. And God said he would bless all the works of their hands.

Seems to me that God has a different opinion of wealth than you do. What the Bible says is wrong is the love of mammon(wealth). For the love of money is the root of all evil. ITimothy 6:10 Notice, it is the love of money, not the money itself that is evil.

WeberHome
November 14th, 2017, 10:49 PM
-

I said Your wrong, Jesus was 100% honest.

Note the language and grammar of the scripture below.

"There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one." (Rom 3:10-12)

You see, when an indictment is issued against the human race, Jesus is presumed the exception, viz: it isn't necessary to say so.

BTW: Next time be sure to spell "Your wrong" correctly. It should be in the from of a contraction; like this: You're wrong.

/

Squeaky
November 14th, 2017, 11:58 PM
-


Note the language and grammar of the scripture below.

"There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one." (Rom 3:10-12)

You see, when an indictment is issued against the human race, Jesus is presumed the exception, viz: it isn't necessary to say so.

BTW: Next time be sure to spell "Your wrong" correctly. It should be in the from of a contraction; like this: You're wrong.

/

I said
ROFLOL (in the from of a contraction)

WeberHome
November 15th, 2017, 08:01 AM
-

I said ROFLOL (in the from of a contraction)

ROFOL isn't a contraction; it's an acronym.

Webster's defines contraction as a shortening of a word, syllable, or word group by omission of a sound or letter; also: a form produced by such shortening. For example "They'll" is a contraction for "they will."

Contractions are typically (though not always) a short-cut combination of a noun/pronoun and a verb wherein the some of the lettering of the verb is replaced with an apostrophe.

Social networking is to blame for much of today's bad spelling. The constant use of its jargon is actually dumbing modern youngsters down to the point that it's not unusual for the iPhone generation to have difficulty filling out a legible job application; sometimes even college applications are a bit of a challenge for network brains.

Take it from a 73 year-old senior citizen who's been around the block a time or two: substandard language skills do not make a good impression; they make people look childish, stupid, uneducated, backward, incompetent, and incoherent. There's no real advantage to coming across as a clod. It might be cool to be a clod amongst your peers; but in the real world clods typically earn themselves mockery and disgust instead of respect.

"Let a man meet a bear robbed of her cubs, rather than a fool in his folly." (Prov 17:12)

/

Squeaky
November 15th, 2017, 08:44 AM
-


ROFOL isn't a contraction; it's an acronym.

Webster's defines contraction as a shortening of a word, syllable, or word group by omission of a sound or letter; also: a form produced by such shortening. For example "They'll" is a contraction for "they will."

Contractions are typically (though not always) a short-cut combination of a noun/pronoun and a verb wherein the some of the lettering of the verb is replaced with an apostrophe.

Social networking is to blame for much of today's bad spelling. The constant use of its jargon is actually dumbing modern youngsters down to the point that it's not unusual for the iPhone generation to have difficulty filling out a legible job application; sometimes even college applications are a bit of a challenge for network brains.

Take it from a 73 year-old senior citizen who's been around the block a time or two: substandard language skills do not make a good impression; they make people look childish, stupid, uneducated, backward, incompetent, and incoherent. There's no real advantage to coming across as a clod. It might be cool to be a clod amongst your peers; but in the real world clods typically earn themselves mockery and disgust instead of respect.

"Let a man meet a bear robbed of her cubs, rather than a fool in his folly." (Prov 17:12)

/

I said
lol I was laughing at your statement while correcting me on spelling. What is a "from" in this statement.

(in the from of a contraction)


Matt 23:24
24 "Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
(NKJ)

WeberHome
November 15th, 2017, 09:04 AM
-

What is a "from" in this statement. (in the from of a contraction)
"from" instead of "form" is what's known as a typo, which are normal errors made even by the best of writers. In contrast, social-network misspelled words are typically deliberate and habitual.

/

WeberHome
November 15th, 2017, 09:47 AM
-
● 1Cor 14:18-20 . . In the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue. Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults.

I would offer that passage as practical advice to Christians caught up in social networking. Leave your weird vocabulary at home so that when you converse with regular people at church, they won't need a special glossary and/or an urban dictionary to figure out what you're saying.

/

Squeaky
November 15th, 2017, 09:53 AM
-

"from" instead of "form" is what's known as a typo, which are normal errors made even by the best of writers. In contrast, social-network misspelled words are typically deliberate and habitual.

/

I said
lol I know even I do it some times. You can save your English lessons on me. I wouldn't know a verb from a spare tire.

Squeaky
November 15th, 2017, 09:59 AM
-
● 1Cor 14:18-20 . . In the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue. Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults.

I would offer that passage as practical advice to Christians caught up in social networking. Leave your weird vocabulary at home so that when you converse with intelligent people at church, they won't need a special glossary and/or an urban dictionary to figure out what you're saying.

/

I said
lol I don't think even Jesus would understand the intellectuals of today. Your missing the most important point. Our fancy language is a delusion to the language of the Holy Spirit. There were two trees in the garden of Eden. The tree of life, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

John 6:63
63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
(NKJ)

oatmeal
November 16th, 2017, 03:39 AM
lol Do you know what sin is? Anything not done in faith is sin. A rich person lacks one thing in order to have treasures in heaven.

Luke 18:22-23
22 So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
23 But when he heard this, he became very sorrowful, for he was very rich.
(NKJ)

Rom 14:23
23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.
(NKJ)

So where is the verse that says being rich is a sin?

Did Jesus tell all rich people to do that? or just him?

Did Jesus tell all people to wash in the pool of Shiloam or just that one person person who was born blind?

Did Jesus command to all people "Lazarus, come forth"?

oatmeal
November 16th, 2017, 03:48 AM
I said
lol Doesn't anyone read the bible anymore. Is a thief and a robber sinning?

John 10:7-8
7 Then Jesus said to them again, "Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
(NKJ)

Don't change the subject, we are talking about rich people.

Show me where Abraham's wealth was a sin against God!

Show me where Job's wealth was a sin to God! Job 1:3,8;2:3

God's opinion of Job was rather high, if you ask me.

Job 2:3 God still has the same judgment of Job as He had before he lost his wealth and children.

Job's problem is clearly stated in Job 3:25. You don't have to be rich to be fearful and afraid. that is common to all men until they overcome it by believing God.

So do you suggest that married people are sinful because they are married? After all only people can cheat against their spouse!

Are you suggesting that children are evil because they do not always obey their parents?

What sin did Joseph of Arimathea do? He was wealthy. He is the only one who initiated taking care of Jesus' body. Was that a sin?

oatmeal
November 16th, 2017, 03:51 AM
I Timothy 6:17

Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

Here God says He gives us all things RICHLY to enjoy!

Are you accusing God of giving to us richly so that they can sin?

meshak
November 16th, 2017, 05:35 AM
I Timothy 6:17

Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

Here God says He gives us all things RICHLY to enjoy!

Are you accusing God of giving to us richly so that they can sin?

Being rich is inconsiderate for the poor. Being rich is so against Jesus' principle of love. Jesus is for the whole world, not just for a few countries.

When we think about other country's poverty, we cannot stay rich. We can enjoy life without being rich.

There are too many things against being rich. It is not of Jesus.

Squeaky
November 16th, 2017, 08:14 AM
Don't change the subject, we are talking about rich people.

Show me where Abraham's wealth was a sin against God!

Show me where Job's wealth was a sin to God! Job 1:3,8;2:3

God's opinion of Job was rather high, if you ask me.

Job 2:3 God still has the same judgment of Job as He had before he lost his wealth and children.

Job's problem is clearly stated in Job 3:25. You don't have to be rich to be fearful and afraid. that is common to all men until they overcome it by believing God.

So do you suggest that married people are sinful because they are married? After all only people can cheat against their spouse!

Are you suggesting that children are evil because they do not always obey their parents?

What sin did Joseph of Arimathea do? He was wealthy. He is the only one who initiated taking care of Jesus' body. Was that a sin?

I said
lol In your greed to defend a sin you have fallen from grace. That is how the word is a double edged sword. Now you must keep the whole entire old testament law. Doesn't any of you read the Word.

Gal 5:1-4

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
(NKJ)

Squeaky
November 16th, 2017, 08:16 AM
I Timothy 6:17

Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

Here God says He gives us all things RICHLY to enjoy!

Are you accusing God of giving to us richly so that they can sin?

I said
Now your just rambling on like an idiot.

iouae
November 16th, 2017, 11:09 AM
It's not having money that is a sin. It is loving money. 1Ti 6:10

nikolai_42
November 16th, 2017, 11:22 AM
lol Do you know what sin is? Anything not done in faith is sin. A rich person lacks one thing in order to have treasures in heaven.

Luke 18:22-23
22 So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
23 But when he heard this, he became very sorrowful, for he was very rich.
(NKJ)

Rom 14:23
23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.
(NKJ)

So the rewards and blessings God gives are only given to you so you can give them away?

And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
Mark 10:29-30

The issue is not having wealth, the issue is trusting in wealth.

Squeaky
November 16th, 2017, 01:15 PM
So the rewards and blessings God gives are only given to you so you can give them away?

And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
Mark 10:29-30

The issue is not having wealth, the issue is trusting in wealth.

I said
Well by your own words. The reason people cant give it away is because they put to much trust and faith in money.
[Mat 19:23-24
23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24 "And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

nikolai_42
November 16th, 2017, 02:20 PM
I said
Well by your own words. The reason people cant give it away is because they put to much trust and faith in money.
[Mat 19:23-24
23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24 "And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Read the scripture I quoted again. They received because they gave away. They not only receive eternal life, but they receive material blessings in this life. This is not the prosperity gospel, but it is confirmation that the Lord blesses those who give...by giving back. And when He gives back on a large scale, is it a sin for the recipient not to immediately turn around and give that away? These are not people who trust in riches.

Squeaky
November 16th, 2017, 02:44 PM
Read the scripture I quoted again. They received because they gave away. They not only receive eternal life, but they receive material blessings in this life. This is not the prosperity gospel, but it is confirmation that the Lord blesses those who give...by giving back. And when He gives back on a large scale, is it a sin for the recipient not to immediately turn around and give that away? These are not people who trust in riches.

I said
If that were true they wouldn't be rich now would they.

ffreeloader
November 17th, 2017, 06:38 AM
Squeaky,

Let's look at the riches of someone God called a man after His own heart.


IChronicles 22: 14 (sword:///I Chronicles 22:14) Now, behold, in my trouble I have prepared for the house of the Lord an hundred thousand talents of gold, and a thousand thousand talents of silver; and of brass and iron without weight; for it is in abundance: timber also and stone have I prepared; and thou mayest add thereto.*n2 (http://theologyonline.com/passagestudy.jsp?action=showNote&type=n&value=1&module=KJV&passage=I Chronicles 22%3A14)

So, let's examine what was in David's savings account for the building of the temple.

A talent of gold weighed 250 lbs. A talent of silver weighed 125 lbs.

So, David's savings account for the building of the temple had 250,000 lbs of gold, and 125,000,000 lbs of silver. And the brass and iron that he had saved were without weight. Plus, there was timber and stone for structural use on the building. So what was the value of just to two precious metals that David had set aside for the building of the temple? I will use the same price for gold I used in figuring Solomon's yearly income.

In gold David had saved up, in today's dollars, $466,665,600,000 Do you see that number? Almost 1/2 a trillion dollars in gold alone.
The Monex spot price for silver as I'm writing this is $17.09/oz. So, that means David's savings account held $2,136,250,000 in silver alone. Two+ billion dollars worth of silver.

This means David's savings account for the building of the temple held $468,801,850,000 in gold and silver, and such vast quantities of brass and iron that there was no way to calculate their quantity. Plus there were vast quantities of quarried stone and timber. What was the total value of all of this? Who knows, but we can know it only added to the $468+ billion in gold and silver. I wonder how many billionaires in today's world have a total wealth that could equal David's one savings account? I doubt there are any. And all we know of David's wealth was what was recorded in this one savings account.

So, only one of David's savings accounts held almost 1/2 a trillion dollars in gold and silver, plus incalculable quantities of brass, iron, timber, and quarried stone. And God said David was a man after His own heart. How does that fit your ideas that riches are sin? If David's vast wealth was sin, then just why does God call him a man after His own heart for David would have had to have been one of the worst sinners of all time? By your lights you seem to think that David actually worked at sinning for he had to work to accumulate this type of wealth. Just how does that fit God's assessment of David?

Will you ignore this Biblical evidence against your theory too? I noticed you gave my last post a wide berth.

nikolai_42
November 17th, 2017, 08:03 AM
I said
If that were true they wouldn't be rich now would they.

They gave everything away to follow Christ. Their reward was eternal as well as temporal. And, like Job, received more back (temporally) than they had even before they were following Christ. It isn't a sin to be rich.

Squeaky
November 17th, 2017, 08:54 AM
Squeaky,

Let's look at the riches of someone God called a man after His own heart.



So, let's examine what was in David's savings account for the building of the temple.

A talent of gold weighed 250 lbs. A talent of silver weighed 125 lbs.

So, David's savings account for the building of the temple had 250,000 lbs of gold, and 125,000,000 lbs of silver. And the brass and iron that he had saved were without weight. Plus, there was timber and stone for structural use on the building. So what was the value of just to two precious metals that David had set aside for the building of the temple? I will use the same price for gold I used in figuring Solomon's yearly income.

In gold David had saved up, in today's dollars, $466,665,600,000 Do you see that number? Almost 1/2 a trillion dollars in gold alone.
The Monex spot price for silver as I'm writing this is $17.09/oz. So, that means David's savings account held $2,136,250,000 in silver alone. Two+ billion dollars worth of silver.

This means David's savings account for the building of the temple held $468,801,850,000 in gold and silver, and such vast quantities of brass and iron that there was no way to calculate their quantity. Plus there were vast quantities of quarried stone and timber. What was the total value of all of this? Who knows, but we can know it only added to the $468+ billion in gold and silver. I wonder how many billionaires in today's world have a total wealth that could equal David's one savings account? I doubt there are any. And all we know of David's wealth was what was recorded in this one savings account.

So, only one of David's savings accounts held almost 1/2 a trillion dollars in gold and silver, plus incalculable quantities of brass, iron, timber, and quarried stone. And God said David was a man after His own heart. How does that fit your ideas that riches are sin? If David's vast wealth was sin, then just why does God call him a man after His own heart for David would have had to have been one of the worst sinners of all time? By your lights you seem to think that David actually worked at sinning for he had to work to accumulate this type of wealth. Just how does that fit God's assessment of David?

Will you ignore this Biblical evidence against your theory too? I noticed you gave my last post a wide berth.

I said
lol Wide birth?? That isn't even near what I'm going to do with this one. Everything up until John the Baptist was the law. And anyone who attempts to be justified by the law has fallen from grace. And the only way to heaven is by grace through faith.


Luke 16:16
16 "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.
(NKJ)

Matt 11:12-13
12 "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.
13 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
(NKJ)

Gal 5:1-4
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
(NKJ)

Squeaky
November 17th, 2017, 08:59 AM
They gave everything away to follow Christ. Their reward was eternal as well as temporal. And, like Job, received more back (temporally) than they had even before they were following Christ. It isn't a sin to be rich.

I said
Like I said if they gave everything away for Christ they couldn't be rich anymore. Jesus told him, there is one thing that he lacked. Its easy for a rich man to say he can give it all away. But until he does it his words are not valid.

Matt 19:23-24
23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24 "And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
(NKJ)

Matt 19:20-22
20 The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?"
21 Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
(NKJ)

nikolai_42
November 17th, 2017, 09:01 AM
I said
Like I said if they gave everything away for Christ they couldn't be rich anymore. Jesus told him, there is one thing that he lacked. Its easy for a rich man to say he can give it all away. But until he does it his words are not valid.

Matt 19:23-24
23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24 "And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
(NKJ)

Matt 19:20-22
20 The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?"
21 Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
(NKJ)

And if that rich man does give it all away for the sake of Christ - and then gets it all (and more) back again? Is he sinning?

Squeaky
November 17th, 2017, 10:35 AM
And if that rich man does give it all away for the sake of Christ - and then gets it all (and more) back again? Is he sinning?

I said
That just means he has more to give away. If he ever stops and keeps it, he is sinning. You should understand it was never his to keep. It was only given so he could give it to whom God willed it. If someone stops stealing today. Is it ok to steal tomorrow?


I Jn 2:15-20
15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world-- the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life-- is not of the Father but is of the world.
17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.
(NKJ)

nikolai_42
November 17th, 2017, 10:40 AM
I said
That just means he has more to give away. If he ever stops and keeps it, he is sinning. You should understand it was never his to keep. It was only given so he could give it to whom God willed it.

Remember...you were the one who said that being rich (of itself) is a sin. This scripture, then, has God's gift to a person (for faithfulness) being of itself sinful.

Squeaky
November 17th, 2017, 11:47 AM
Remember...you were the one who said that being rich (of itself) is a sin. This scripture, then, has God's gift to a person (for faithfulness) being of itself sinful.

I said
lol Your really struggling to justify being rich. Gods gift for faithfulness will never be riches in money. God has so many better ways and better gifts to give for faithfulness. Peace of mind, eternal life. Your statement is full of guile.

nikolai_42
November 17th, 2017, 12:17 PM
I said
lol Your really struggling to justify being rich. Gods gift for faithfulness will never be riches in money. God has so many better ways and better gifts to give for faithfulness. Peace of mind, eternal life. Your statement is full of guile.

Well...no. I'm not. When the mind is set on the things of the earth, those things hold a man captive. So for someone who is set on the things of earth - even if he goes and sells all he has, if his heart is unchanged then it does him no good.

When God gives man a gift, it is certainly possible He will require it of him later (Abraham and Isaac immediately come to mind) but the one who can say that the gift itself (whether money or whatever) is sinful is missing the point.

Squeaky
November 17th, 2017, 02:53 PM
Well...no. I'm not. When the mind is set on the things of the earth, those things hold a man captive. So for someone who is set on the things of earth - even if he goes and sells all he has, if his heart is unchanged then it does him no good.

When God gives man a gift, it is certainly possible He will require it of him later (Abraham and Isaac immediately come to mind) but the one who can say that the gift itself (whether money or whatever) is sinful is missing the point.

I said
Well I'm waiting to here that point. I haven't heard it yet. The thing is all you have to do is go show me which of them verses are wrong.

Grip Docility
November 17th, 2017, 09:37 PM
People who have this interpretation tend to help relieve others of their financial abundance.

iouae
November 17th, 2017, 10:04 PM
I said
Like I said if they gave everything away for Christ they couldn't be rich anymore. Jesus told him, there is one thing that he lacked. Its easy for a rich man to say he can give it all away. But until he does it his words are not valid.

I believe that Christ told the rich young man to give all away and follow Him because Christ was calling this man to be a replacement apostle, since Christ knew Judas would betray Him. All other apostles left their stuff behind.

Thus I do not consider selling everything as a command to all Christians in general. The Gospels say Christ looked on this man and loved him, before He called him. Few are recorded as "loved".

Mar 10:21
Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Christians should give. But they should also enjoy what they have, without guilt.

Squeaky
November 18th, 2017, 08:41 AM
People who have this interpretation tend to help relieve others of their financial abundance.

I said
Well everyone has an opinion, but an opinion is deceiving.

Rom 12:16
16 Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.
(NKJ)

Squeaky
November 18th, 2017, 08:47 AM
I believe that Christ told the rich young man to give all away and follow Him because Christ was calling this man to be a replacement apostle, since Christ knew Judas would betray Him. All other apostles left their stuff behind.

Thus I do not consider selling everything as a command to all Christians in general. The Gospels say Christ looked on this man and loved him, before He called him. Few are recorded as "loved".

Mar 10:21
Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Christians should give. But they should also enjoy what they have, without guilt.

I said
Jesus loved His enemies. And it is obvious that one cant follow Jesus if they are rich. No matter how many other things they do right. God chose the poor to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom......


James 2:5-7
5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?
6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts?
7 Do they not blaspheme that noble name by which you are called?
(NKJ)

iouae
November 18th, 2017, 07:14 PM
I said
Jesus loved His enemies. And it is obvious that one cant follow Jesus if they are rich. No matter how many other things they do right. God chose the poor to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom......


James 2:5-7
5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?
6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts?
7 Do they not blaspheme that noble name by which you are called?
(NKJ)
Can one own a house and be saved?

Peter, Lazarus, Levi, Simon the taner, even Jesus owned houses.

Today if one owns a house, that house is worth a million. So as home owners and therefore millionaires, can one be saved?

meshak
November 18th, 2017, 07:29 PM
Can one own a house and be saved?

Peter, Lazarus, Levi, Simon the taner, even Jesus owned houses.

Today if one owns a house, that house is worth a million. So as home owners and therefore millionaires, can one be saved?

Jesus said "Son of man has no place to sleep."

True or False
November 18th, 2017, 08:21 PM
Being Rich Is A Sin

2 Cor 8:12-15
12 For if there is first a willing mind, it is accepted according to what one has, and not according to what he does not have.
13 For I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened;
14 but by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may supply their lack, that their abundance also may supply your lack-- that there may be equality.
15 As it is written, "He who gathered much had nothing left over, and he who gathered little had no lack."
1 Cor 16:2-4
2 On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.
3 And when I come, whomever you approve by your letters I will send to bear your gift to Jerusalem.
4 But if it is fitting that I go also, they will go with me.
3 Jn 1:2-8
2 Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers.
3 For I rejoiced greatly when brethren came and testified of the truth that is in you, just as you walk in the truth.
4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
5 Beloved, you do faithfully whatever you do for the brethren and for strangers,
6 who have borne witness of your love before the church. If you send them forward on their journey in a manner worthy of God, you will do well,
7 because they went forth for His name's sake, taking nothing from the Gentiles.
8 We therefore ought to receive such, that we may become fellow workers for the truth.
James 2:5-9
5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?
6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts?
7 Do they not blaspheme that noble name by which you are called?
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well;
9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
Rev 3:17-18
17 "Because you say, 'I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing'-- and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked--
18 "I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.
Matt 23:1-9
1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples,
2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3 "Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.
4 "For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5 "But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments.
6 "They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues,
7 "greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, 'Rabbi, Rabbi.'
8 "But you, do not be called 'Rabbi'; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren.
9 "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.
James 1:9-10
9 Let the lowly brother glory in his exaltation,
10 but the rich in his humiliation, because as a flower of the field he will pass away.
James 5:1-6
1 Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you!
2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten.
3 Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days.
4 Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth.
5 You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as in a day of slaughter.
6 You have condemned, you have murdered the just; he does not resist you.
1 Tim 6:10-12
10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11 But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness.
12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
(NKJ)

xxx You can only be rich in money by holding back from others what God has demanded you give.
The amount of money you possess determines how rich are you.

True or false?

iouae
November 18th, 2017, 11:47 PM
Jesus said "Son of man has no place to sleep."

Because He was on the road so much.

Here is a case where He was at his home.

Mar 2:1

And again he entered into Capernaum after some days; and it was noised that he was in the house

It was His house, the tiles of which they broke to let down the sick of palsy.

meshak
November 19th, 2017, 05:00 AM
Because He was on the road so much.

Here is a case where He was at his home.

Mar 2:1

And again he entered into Capernaum after some days; and it was noised that he was in the house

It was His house, the tiles of which they broke to let down the sick of palsy.

It was the house, not saying it was His house.


Your interpretation is convenient for your advantage.

oatmeal
November 19th, 2017, 05:29 AM
I said
lol Doesn't anyone read the bible anymore. Is a thief and a robber sinning?

John 10:7-8
7 Then Jesus said to them again, "Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
(NKJ)

Don't change the subject. where does it say that Abraham sinned because he was rich?

All men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

Including poor people, since III John 2 says "I wish above all things that you prosper and be in health" you could build a case that poor people and sick people are sinning because they are poor and sick! I don't you would try because that argument would fall flat on it just like being rich is a sin argument

oatmeal
November 19th, 2017, 05:32 AM
Being rich is inconsiderate for the poor. Being rich is so against Jesus' principle of love. Jesus is for the whole world, not just for a few countries.

When we think about other country's poverty, we cannot stay rich. We can enjoy life without being rich.

There are too many things against being rich. It is not of Jesus.

then being poor is inconsiderate to the rich for then the rich are made to feel guilty for working hard and smart and being successful. God wants us to prosper and be in health, even as our soul prospers. III John 2, therefore the argument could be made that sick and poor people are likewise sinners!

Do you really want to go there?

For that matter, since Philippians 4:19 states that God shall supply all your need, then those people who receive government handouts, (the government is not God, maybe you noticed) are sinners because they are idolizing government over God!

meshak
November 19th, 2017, 06:21 AM
Being rich is so negatively quoted in NT including Jesus' own ward.

ffreeloader
November 19th, 2017, 09:56 AM
I said
lol Wide birth?? That isn't even near what I'm going to do with this one. Everything up until John the Baptist was the law. And anyone who attempts to be justified by the law has fallen from grace. And the only way to heaven is by grace through faith.


Luke 16:16
16 "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.
(NKJ)

Matt 11:12-13
12 "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.
13 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
(NKJ)

Gal 5:1-4
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
(NKJ)

Squeaky,

I will respond to you by asking you a question. Did Jesus ever lie?

patrick jane
November 19th, 2017, 10:02 AM
Being rich is so negatively quoted in NT including Jesus' own ward.The maternity ward?

iouae
November 19th, 2017, 11:17 AM
It was the house, not saying it was His house.


Your interpretation is convenient for your advantage.

Jesus lived in Capernahum with his brothers, sisters and Mary, His mother.

Essentially the passage is saying that Jesus was back home.

Here, Jesus was back home and the crowd had filled Jesus own house such that Mary and Christs brothers and sisters could not get into their very own home. That is why they stood without and called for Christ. They are standing outside their very own home and cannot get into their very own house, for the crowd.

Mat 12:46

While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Mat 12:47
Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
Mat 12:48

But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
Mat 12:49
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

And whether one has a house or riches is of ZERO consequence. It is the love of possessions which is the problem. One could be Bill Gates, or Warren Buffet and still be a Christian in good standing.

iouae
November 20th, 2017, 01:39 PM
It was the house, not saying it was His house.


Your interpretation is convenient for your advantage.

Peter had a house

Mat 8:14
And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.

meshak
November 20th, 2017, 06:51 PM
Peter had a house

Mat 8:14
And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.

I know he did.

we are talking about Jesus.

iouae
November 20th, 2017, 09:43 PM
I know he did.

we are talking about Jesus.

I already dealt with Jesus' house. Jesus was in "THE house" in His home town. "The" is definite article for a specific house. What is your theory of which specific house it was? Its not any old house, otherwise the indefinite article "a" would have been used.

Now I ask you to deal with Peter's house.

jaybird
November 20th, 2017, 11:05 PM
being a lazy dumbo is just as much a sin. :Plain:

i confess to committing this sin many times.

meshak
November 21st, 2017, 03:53 AM
I already dealt with Jesus' house. Jesus was in "THE house" in His home town. "The" is definite article for a specific house. What is your theory of which specific house it was? Its not any old house, otherwise the indefinite article "a" would have been used.

Now I ask you to deal with Peter's house.

It is clear that Jesus is opposed to rich people in over all. You cannot stay wealthy if you love Jesus.

JudgeRightly
November 21st, 2017, 06:25 AM
It is clear that Jesus is opposed to rich people in over all. You cannot stay wealthy if you love Jesus.

Does everything belong to God?

iouae
November 21st, 2017, 10:02 AM
It is clear that Jesus is opposed to rich people in over all. You cannot stay wealthy if you love Jesus.

There are plenty of scriptures to the effect that wealth can be a problem.
Mat 19:24
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Rev 3:17
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

etc.

Wealth CAN be a problem.

But it is more the attitude to wealth that is a problem

Mar 4:19
And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

1Ti 6:10
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

It is not a given that being rich, per se, is a sin. Nor can one say "You cannot stay wealthy if you love Jesus." Nothing is that simple. Many very rich folks like Abraham, David, Job will be in the kingdom. They were not preoccupied with wealth. They loved the Lord much more than wealth. It is possible today for Christians in the Western world, who tend to be very wealthy, to have a healthy attitude towards wealth, and to be able to be Christians and rich.

There is coming a time when Christians may have to choose between wealth or serving God, when the mark of the Beast is enforced. The Antichrist will try to enforce obedience to false religion by cutting off the Christian's access to banking if they refuse to submit to him. That does not pertain now.

meshak
November 21st, 2017, 12:44 PM
There are plenty of scriptures to the effect that wealth can be a problem.
Mat 19:24
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Rev 3:17
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

etc.

Wealth CAN be a problem.

But it is more the attitude to wealth that is a problem

Mar 4:19
And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

1Ti 6:10
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

It is not a given that being rich, per se, is a sin. Nor can one say "You cannot stay wealthy if you love Jesus." Nothing is that simple. Many very rich folks like Abraham, David, Job will be in the kingdom. They were not preoccupied with wealth. They loved the Lord much more than wealth. It is possible today for Christians in the Western world, who tend to be very wealthy, to have a healthy attitude towards wealth, and to be able to be Christians and rich.

There is coming a time when Christians may have to choose between wealth or serving God, when the mark of the Beast is enforced. The Antichrist will try to enforce obedience to false religion by cutting off the Christian's access to banking if they refuse to submit to him. That does not pertain now.

Why are you so defensive of wealthy?

JudgeRightly
November 21st, 2017, 01:19 PM
Why are you so defensive of wealthy?
Does everything belong to God, Meshak?

Squeaky
November 24th, 2017, 03:19 PM
Can one own a house and be saved?

Peter, Lazarus, Levi, Simon the taner, even Jesus owned houses.

Today if one owns a house, that house is worth a million. So as home owners and therefore millionaires, can one be saved?

I said
I hope everyone had a great thanksgiven. I did.

Squeaky
November 24th, 2017, 04:00 PM
You all can twist and manipulate and use all the guile you can conjure up and it doesn't mean nothing. If you want to prove me wrong your going to have to do it with scripture. Just go to the OP and show me which of them verses is wrong or not true. You got deceived outside scripture, not your arguing with me outside of scripture. When A True Christian isn't even allowed to think outside of scripture.

[1Co 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
[Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

JudgeRightly
November 24th, 2017, 04:19 PM
You all can twist and manipulate and use all the guile you can conjure up and it doesn't mean nothing. If you want to prove me wrong your going to have to do it with scripture. Just go to the OP and show me which of them verses is wrong or not true. You got deceived outside scripture, not your arguing with me outside of scripture. When A True Christian isn't even allowed to think outside of scripture.

[1Co 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
[Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

Squeaky, since Meshak doesn't have the guts to answer, does everything belong to God?

Squeaky
November 24th, 2017, 05:47 PM
Squeaky, since Meshak doesn't have the guts to answer, does everything belong to God?

I said
lol Is this one of them trick questions. We know that everything belongs to God.
I hope this question doesn't have any guile in it.

JudgeRightly
November 24th, 2017, 06:44 PM
I said
lol Is this one of them trick questions. We know that everything belongs to God.
I hope this question doesn't have any guile in it.
No, not a trick question, and I'm glad you answered with a straightforward answer, thank you for that. Not many people whom I have discussions with on here can answer simple questions like that with answers like yours.

Ok, so, we both agree that everything belongs to God.

Here's my next question, with follow-up:

Since everything belongs to God, doesn't that make Him rich? And if so, would it not be hypocritical of God to demand that we give away our wealth, while he remain rich?

meshak
November 24th, 2017, 07:06 PM
Hey JR,

You are on ignore.


So I don't reply to any of your posts including questions.

You are too ignorant of Jesus' word or teachings.

JudgeRightly
November 24th, 2017, 08:30 PM
Hey JR,

You are on ignore.


So I don't reply to any of your posts including questions.

You are too ignorant of Jesus' word or teachings.

You have me on ignore because responding to my challenges of your beliefs would force you to push yourself to an understanding of the Bible that's deeper than what you believe, and that makes you uncomfortable for some reason.

You should get off this site, for good even. I've never seen you add anything beneficial to any thread, at least, nothing but your opinions. Worse is that you reject significant portions of the Bible because they don't fall in line with the Doctrine of Meshak.

Meshak, if your beliefs are correct, then you should be able to defend them, as Peter says:

And who is he who will harm you if you become followers of what is good?But even if you should suffer for righteousness’ sake, you are blessed. “And do not be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled.”But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed.For it is better, if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil. - 1 Peter 3:13-17 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Peter3:13-17&version=NKJV

Expected response from Meshak:

1. Silence
2. "Good day"

Squeaky
November 24th, 2017, 09:45 PM
No, not a trick question, and I'm glad you answered with a straightforward answer, thank you for that. Not many people whom I have discussions with on here can answer simple questions like that with answers like yours.

Ok, so, we both agree that everything belongs to God.

Here's my next question, with follow-up:

Since everything belongs to God, doesn't that make Him rich? And if so, would it not be hypocritical of God to demand that we give away our wealth, while he remain rich?

I said
lolol That is one stupid question. For one its stupid to put your self on the same level with God. That is logic straight from the devil. Our only hope of eternal life in heaven is to prove we can obey Every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

[Mat 4:4
4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.' "

marhig
November 24th, 2017, 10:34 PM
No, not a trick question, and I'm glad you answered with a straightforward answer, thank you for that. Not many people whom I have discussions with on here can answer simple questions like that with answers like yours.

Ok, so, we both agree that everything belongs to God.

Here's my next question, with follow-up:

Since everything belongs to God, doesn't that make Him rich? And if so, would it not be hypocritical of God to demand that we give away our wealth, while he remain rich?That's nonsense, the wealth of this world is nothing to do with God, true wealth in God is being blessed with the Holy Spirit.

God gives us what we need. Man's greed gives us what we want, and satan tempts is in our weaknesses.

Getting by is one thing, but excessive wealth and building up in the world isn't of God. This world and ways of it, belongs to the Prince of it, Jesus said this world had nothing in him. And that he is not of this world, and he said that those who belonged to him were not of this world either.

So if he and those who belong to him are not of this world, and if satan is the Prince of this world, then this world is not what those who belong to God get overly involved in, and I mean the ways of it and the building up in it. Our hearts should be in God and Christ and living by the will of God and wanting to please him, not our flesh and being over indulgent in the world

marhig
November 24th, 2017, 10:40 PM
Jesus lived in Capernahum with his brothers, sisters and Mary, His mother.

Essentially the passage is saying that Jesus was back home.

Here, Jesus was back home and the crowd had filled Jesus own house such that Mary and Christs brothers and sisters could not get into their very own home. That is why they stood without and called for Christ. They are standing outside their very own home and cannot get into their very own house, for the crowd.

Mat 12:46

While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Mat 12:47
Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
Mat 12:48

But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
Mat 12:49
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

And whether one has a house or riches is of ZERO consequence. It is the love of possessions which is the problem. One could be Bill Gates, or Warren Buffet and still be a Christian in good standing.You reckon? Wouldn't you think that you couldn't hold on to all that money if Christ was in the heart, don't you think that he would be prompting us to help, and give to all those around us if we have plenty.

Wouldn't you say that it's having a love of money to build up excess wealth in the bank when there are people in need everywhere?

iouae
November 24th, 2017, 11:11 PM
Why are you so defensive of wealthy?

Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Christianity just got rid of all the class distinctions, and here we are trying to make a new one.

In Christ there is neither rich nor poor....

Some people/Christians need to be wealthy. Some need to be filthy rich.
In modern society, if you want to make a factory, say a cellphone factory, one has to be rich to install all the processes and robots to make that phone. Henry Ford needed wealth to make his first factory.

Many of the wealthy give the most.

I have nothing against the rich who use that wealth to have factories, which employ people etc.
I have everything against the rich who just have money in the bank or stock exchange, where that wealth is just serving them. But its none of my business. The government needs to take/tax their wealth and redistribute it, not us citizens.

In general I feel its wrong to be covetous of what the rich have. I don't even watch those TV shows which glamorise the ultra-rich lifestyle, because it's so obscene. Also, the rich are not happier than you or I, with all their expensive skiing holidays, and boats.

God would rain down from the sky gold and $$ but most of us cannot handle it. It would just make us need Him less. That is the only trap of wealth. God wants us to be needy, so we don't fill that God-shaped hole in our souls with distractions, like money.

But having money is fine for the few who can handle it without it spoiling them. And many in the Bible handled wealth just fine.

marhig
November 24th, 2017, 11:15 PM
Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Christianity just got rid of all the class distinctions, and here we are trying to make a new one.

In Christ there is neither rich nor poor....

Some people/Christians need to be wealthy. Some need to be filthy rich.
In modern society, if you want to make a factory, say a cellphone factory, one has to be rich to install all the processes and robots to make that phone. Henry Ford needed wealth to make his first factory.

Many of the wealthy give the most.

I have nothing against the rich who use that wealth to have factories, which employ people etc.
I have everything against the rich who just have money in the bank or stock exchange, where that wealth is just serving them. But its none of my business. The government needs to take/tax their wealth and redistribute it, not us citizens.

In general I feel its wrong to be covetous of what the rich have. I don't even watch those TV shows which glamorise the ultra-rich lifestyle, because it's so obscene. Also, the rich are not happier than you or I, with all their expensive skiing holidays, and boats.

God would rain down from the sky gold and $$ but most of us cannot handle it. It would just make us need Him less. That is the only trap of wealth. God wants us to be needy, so we don't fill that God-shaped hole in our souls with distractions, like money.

But having money is fine for the few who can handle it without it spoiling them. And many in the Bible handled wealth just fine.Why would anyone need to be filthy rich?

iouae
November 24th, 2017, 11:25 PM
Why would anyone need to be filthy rich?

To make a factory, or Trump Tower, to employ people.

Wealth is irrelevant to the true believer. Wealth is just a number of zeroes in the bank after a $1.

2003cobra
November 24th, 2017, 11:26 PM
It is clear that Jesus is opposed to rich people in over all. You cannot stay wealthy if you love Jesus.

The Old Testament is filled with examples of wealthy people who loved God.

And the early church had wealthy members, as is evident from 1 Timothy 6;
As for those who in the present age are rich, command them not to be haughty, or to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but rather on God who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. 18 They are to do good, to be rich in good works, generous, and ready to share, 19 thus storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of the life that really is life.

They are told to be generous.

I have heard it said that God is continually looking for people to bless with wealth that they might bless others.

Sometimes I think people complaining about the wealth of other believers may simply be envious.

iouae
November 24th, 2017, 11:33 PM
The Old Testament is filled with examples of wealthy people who loved God.

And the early church had wealthy members, as is evident from 1 Timothy 6;
As for those who in the present age are rich, command them not to be haughty, or to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but rather on God who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. 18 They are to do good, to be rich in good works, generous, and ready to share, 19 thus storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of the life that really is life.

They are told to be generous.

I have heard it said that God is continually looking for people to bless with wealth that they might bless others.

Sometimes I think people complaining about the wealth of other believers may simply be envious.

Amen!

Ktoyou
November 24th, 2017, 11:37 PM
To make a factory, or Trump Tower, to employ people.

Wealth is irrelevant to the true believer. Wealth is just a number of zeroes in the bank after a $1.

Baloney! You would be happier the more zeros were added to a check to you with more zeros.

You think you are just too sweet.:p

marhig
November 24th, 2017, 11:39 PM
To make a factory, or Trump Tower, to employ people.

Wealth is irrelevant to the true believer. Wealth is just a number of zeroes in the bank after a $1.Yes wealth should be irrelevant to the true believer, it should mean nothing to us, we should be concentrating on living by the will of God and laying down our life for others, to bring the life of Christ to them. Not the wealth of this world

Matthew 16

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Matthew 6

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. (Wealth/flesh)

marhig
November 24th, 2017, 11:41 PM
The Old Testament is filled with examples of wealthy people who loved God.

And the early church had wealthy members, as is evident from 1 Timothy 6;
As for those who in the present age are rich, command them not to be haughty, or to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but rather on God who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. 18 They are to do good, to be rich in good works, generous, and ready to share, 19 thus storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of the life that really is life.

They are told to be generous.

I have heard it said that God is continually looking for people to bless with wealth that they might bless others.

Sometimes I think people complaining about the wealth of other believers may simply be envious.What about in the new testament once Jesus has showed us the way?

And why on earth would those born of God be envious of wealth? They have more wealth than anything of this world, because they have been blessed with the Holy Spirit which is priceless!

iouae
November 24th, 2017, 11:47 PM
Matthew 6

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. (Wealth/flesh)

Some wealthy folks spend less time thinking about wealth than some poor folks do, wondering where the rent money for the month is going to come from.

Wealth must never be one's master.
Neither must alcohol.
Neither must any addiction, including gambling.
Neither must a demanding spouse.
Neither must... there are a list of 1050 do's and dont's I could go through from the NT.

If wealth is your master, then you need to quit it.
Many folks can handle a drink of alcohol just fine, including Christ. They don't need to quit it.
Some folks cannot touch a drop of alcohol, without it becoming their master. They need to never touch a drop.

marhig
November 24th, 2017, 11:58 PM
Some wealthy folks spend less time thinking about wealth than some poor folks do, wondering where the rent money for the month is going to come from.

Wealth must never be one's master.
Neither must alcohol.
Neither must any addiction, including gambling.
Neither must a demanding spouse.
Neither must... there are a list of 1050 do's and dont's I could go through from the NT.

If wealth is your master, then you need to quit it.
Many folks can handle a drink of alcohol just fine, including Christ. They don't need to quit it.
Some folks cannot touch a drop of alcohol, without it becoming their master. They need to never touch a drop.They don't need to think about wealth if they have it all, and the poor need to keep a roof over their heads and feed their children.

And I've noticed that many of those who are wealthy think about money a lot and many think how they can make more and more. But that's not my point. My point is that those born of God shouldn't be thinking of excessive wealth, money and this world shouldn't bother us, we should thank God that he's giving us a roof food and clothes and be content with what we have. Our true wealth is knowing the living God.

I believe that once we are born of God, any excess should be used to help others, not piled up high in bank accounts. And I would find it hard to have massive amounts of money in the bank whilst there are people in need everywhere. God should be pricking our hearts to see the need in others daily. So how can we hold on to wealth when so many need help?

Jesus wasn't like that, he had no care for wealth and the things of this world, and neither should those who belong to him.

iouae
November 25th, 2017, 12:24 AM
They don't need to think about wealth if they have it all, and the poor need to keep a roof over their heads and feed their children.

And I've noticed that many of those who are wealthy think about money a lot and many think how they can make more and more. But that's not my point. My point is that those born of God shouldn't be thinking of excessive wealth, money and this world shouldn't bother us, we should thank God that he's giving us a roof food and clothes and be content with what we have. Our true wealth is knowing the living God.

I believe that once we are born of God, any excess should be used to help others, not piled up high in bank accounts. And I would find it hard to have massive amounts of money in the bank whilst there are people in need everywhere. God should be pricking our hearts to see the need in others daily. So how can we hold on to wealth when so many need help?

Jesus wasn't like that, he had no care for wealth and the things of this world, and neither should those who belong to him.

2003Cobra explained this well.

"The Old Testament is filled with examples of wealthy people who loved God.

And the early church had wealthy members, as is evident from 1 Timothy 6;
As for those who in the present age are rich, command them not to be haughty, or to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but rather on God who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. 18 They are to do good, to be rich in good works, generous, and ready to share, 19 thus storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of the life that really is life.

They are told to be generous.

I have heard it said that God is continually looking for people to bless with wealth that they might bless others.

Sometimes I think people complaining about the wealth of other believers may simply be envious."

Just like some Christians can live unmarried and some cannot, so some Christians can give away their pension, while most cannot, and should not.

iouae
November 25th, 2017, 12:34 AM
When Christ told the rich young man/ruler to go, sell all and come, follow me, that was not a general instruction to every Christian, for all time (which some mistakenly believe).

It is a specific instruction to a specific person, for a specific reason.

That reason, I speculate, is as follows.

Christ was calling apostles to leave all (forever) to come and physically follow Him around, and thereafter, to go into all the earth preaching the Gospel. Possessions would have been like a ball and chain to them.

Christ looked upon this man and loved him - not often said by Christ.
This was a special person. Christ was calling him to apostleship, but he shrank back to trust in OT law keeping which rather favoured wealth, because under the OC, wealth was a sign of God's favour.

Thus this man lost a chance to replace Judas, and this young man's crown went to Matthias (Acts 1:26).

Squeaky
November 25th, 2017, 03:26 AM
To make a factory, or Trump Tower, to employ people.

Wealth is irrelevant to the true believer. Wealth is just a number of zeroes in the bank after a $1.

I SAID
Even you should see that the only reasoning you can come up with is carnal. You cant find any justification in scripture to support your wild imagination. But remember the words in the new testament.
All that carnal manipulation is going to take your name out of the book of life.

[Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

Squeaky
November 25th, 2017, 03:33 AM
They don't need to think about wealth if they have it all, and the poor need to keep a roof over their heads and feed their children.

And I've noticed that many of those who are wealthy think about money a lot and many think how they can make more and more. But that's not my point. My point is that those born of God shouldn't be thinking of excessive wealth, money and this world shouldn't bother us, we should thank God that he's giving us a roof food and clothes and be content with what we have. Our true wealth is knowing the living God.

I believe that once we are born of God, any excess should be used to help others, not piled up high in bank accounts. And I would find it hard to have massive amounts of money in the bank whilst there are people in need everywhere. God should be pricking our hearts to see the need in others daily. So how can we hold on to wealth when so many need help?

Jesus wasn't like that, he had no care for wealth and the things of this world, and neither should those who belong to him.

I said
Jesus became poor just to make the poor rich in faith.

[Jas 2:5
5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world [to be] rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?

[2Co 8:9
9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich.
[Eph 1:7
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

meshak
November 25th, 2017, 06:02 AM
The Old Testament is filled with examples of wealthy people

Why do you use OT to discern what is right or wrong as Jesus' follower?

God gave Jesus authority to show us example to be in His kingdom.

Why do you disregard Him?

2003cobra
November 25th, 2017, 08:10 AM
What about in the new testament once Jesus has showed us the way?

And why on earth would those born of God be envious of wealth? They have more wealth than anything of this world, because they have been blessed with the Holy Spirit which is priceless!

For your first question, I quoted 1 Timothy 6, which was written after the ascension of Jesus.

On the second question: Christians still have a sin nature. They aren’t always perfect. Some do get envious. It is wonderful if you never sin, but that is not the case for all of us.

2003cobra
November 25th, 2017, 08:14 AM
Yes wealth should be irrelevant to the true believer, it should mean nothing to us, we should be concentrating on living by the will of God and laying down our life for others, to bring the life of Christ to them. Not the wealth of this world...

On the contrary, I am a believer and wealth gives me a way to do good work for the kingdom of God. Jesus told us to feed the hungry, to cloth the naked, to help the oppressed. Wealth provides a means to serve God, which makes it important for righteous reasons.

2003cobra
November 25th, 2017, 08:17 AM
Why do you use OT to discern what is right or wrong as Jesus' follower?

God gave Jesus authority to show us example to be in His kingdom.

Why do you disregard Him?

The OT does provide guidance. Jesus read and quoted the OT scriptures. I don’t disregard that, do you?

And I don’t disregard Him, and the New Testament doesn’t tell people wealth is sin. It says the wealthy should be generous. If I may ask, are you generous?

meshak
November 25th, 2017, 08:23 AM
The OT does provide guidance. Jesus read and quoted the OT scriptures. I don’t disregard that, do you?

Many of you use OT to justify your disobedience.

Jesus teaches responsibility to His followers and many of your disregard them by using the OT.

2003cobra
November 25th, 2017, 08:29 AM
Many of you use OT to justify your disobedience.

Jesus teaches responsibility to His followers and many of your disregard them by using the OT.

There is only one of me, not many.

To what types of disobedience are you making reference? I am curious and would appreciate an answer.

Do you consider being wealthy disobedience? You must if you think it is a sin.

meshak
November 25th, 2017, 08:36 AM
There is only one of me, not many.

To what types of disobedience are you making reference? I am curious and would appreciate an answer.

Do you consider being wealthy disobedience? You must if you think it is a sin.

I am stating overall traits of the churches.

You are just one of them.

2003cobra
November 25th, 2017, 08:59 AM
I am stating overall traits of the churches.

You are just one of them.

I am not a church. I am an individual follower of Jesus Christ.

What types of disobedience justified by the OT were you referring to?

Is having wealth one of the disobedient acts you meant? What are others?

Squeaky
November 25th, 2017, 09:01 AM
On the contrary, I am a believer and wealth gives me a way to do good work for the kingdom of God. Jesus told us to feed the hungry, to cloth the naked, to help the oppressed. Wealth provides a means to serve God, which makes it important for righteous reasons.

I said
Have you given as much as you are suppose to?

[2Co 8:11-15
11 but now you also must complete the doing [of it]; that as [there was] a readiness to desire [it], so [there] also [may be] a completion out of what [you] have.
12 For if there is first a willing mind, [it is] accepted according to what one has, [and] not according to what he does not have.
13 For [I do] not [mean] that others should be eased and you burdened;
14 but by an equality, [that] now at this time your abundance [may supply] their lack, that their abundance also may [supply] your lack--that there may be equality.
15 As it is written, "He who [gathered] much had nothing left over, and he who [gathered] little had no lack."

Look at the poor and how much they give. And what Jesus says about them.

[Luk 21:1-4
1 And He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury,
2 and He saw also a certain poor widow putting in two mites.
3 So He said, "Truly I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all;
4 "for all these out of their abundance have put in offerings for God, but she out of her poverty put in all the livelihood that she had."

meshak
November 25th, 2017, 09:12 AM
I am not a church. I am an individual follower of Jesus Christ.

What types of disobedience justified by the OT were you referring to?

Is having wealth one of the disobedient acts you meant? What are others?

I think I explained my point clearly.

good day.

Squeaky
November 25th, 2017, 09:12 AM
Righteousness is not determined by how much money you give. Righteousness is determined by what percentage you give from what you have. Do you give until you have nothing left over.

15 As it is written, "He who [gathered] much had nothing left over, and he who [gathered] little had no lack."

iouae
November 25th, 2017, 10:29 AM
Righteousness is not determined by how much money you give. Righteousness is determined by what percentage you give from what you have. Do you give until you have nothing left over.

15 As it is written, "He who [gathered] much had nothing left over, and he who [gathered] little had no lack."

Squeaky do you still have two coats, or two pairs of shoes, or two shirts, or two pairs of underpants?

If you have then you are breaking the following scripture, and you have much to repent of.

Luk 3:11
He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise

marhig
November 25th, 2017, 10:40 AM
I said
Jesus became poor just to make the poor rich in faith.

[Jas 2:5
5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world [to be] rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?

[2Co 8:9
9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich.
[Eph 1:7
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His graceThe richness of Christ's isn't the wealth of this world, he refused everything satan had to offer and forsook the flesh to do the will of God. The riches that Christ Jesus brought us is the word of God through the Spirit to save us from the world and heal us, that's the riches that Christ gives us not worldly wealth.

marhig
November 25th, 2017, 10:45 AM
For your first question, I quoted 1 Timothy 6, which was written after the ascension of Jesus.

On the second question: Christians still have a sin nature. They aren’t always perfect. Some do get envious. It is wonderful if you never sin, but that is not the case for all of us.I do sin, I'm not perfect, I just hope that I don't wilfully sin because I know that it comes back on me if I do, we are to turn from sin, and if I realise that I have sinned, I go to God and say sorry. And if Christ is in our heart, then it is possible to overcome the works of the flesh and the ways of the world by the power of the Spirit, because he who is in those born of God is stronger than he who is of the world.

marhig
November 25th, 2017, 10:55 AM
On the contrary, I am a believer and wealth gives me a way to do good work for the kingdom of God. Jesus told us to feed the hungry, to cloth the naked, to help the oppressed. Wealth provides a means to serve God, which makes it important for righteous reasons.Wealth is not of God, wealth is of the world

As I said, those born of God should find it very hard to have any wealth whilst there are poor in the world. It's easy to give out of plenty, it's harder to give out of very little, but I believe that if we belong to Christ, that's exactly what we will do, and we will share whatever we have, even if it's our last, when see the need.

marhig
November 25th, 2017, 10:59 AM
The OT does provide guidance. Jesus read and quoted the OT scriptures. I don’t disregard that, do you?

And I don’t disregard Him, and the New Testament doesn’t tell people wealth is sin. It says the wealthy should be generous. If I may ask, are you generous?Meshak is right, the old testament is brought up to suit and it is dismissed when it doesn't suit. Jesus showed us the way, and he turned away from building up in this world, and that includes wealth as riches. He is our perfect example to follow.

It's not money that's the root of all evil, it's the love of it. But I believe that if we have tons of money in the bank, whilst there are people in need, and we can't give it out and let go of it, then we love money.

lifeisgood
November 25th, 2017, 11:10 AM
Being rich is inconsiderate for the poor.

Verse, please.


Being rich is so against Jesus' principle of love.

Verse where Jesus says that love has to do with being rich or not?


Jesus is for the whole world, not just for a few countries.

Correct.


When we think about other country's poverty, we cannot stay rich. We can enjoy life without being rich.

Not what Jesus said at all. Jesus said that we will always have poor people. (Matthew 26)


There are too many things against being rich. It is not of Jesus.

So, now you are accusing God of making Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Salomon, etc., etc., to sin.

Squeaky
November 25th, 2017, 11:11 AM
Squeaky do you still have two coats, or two pairs of shoes, or two shirts, or two pairs of underpants?

If you have then you are breaking the following scripture, and you have much to repent of.

Luk 3:11
He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise

I said
lol You must be careful with gross exaggerations. And bearing false witness. They will condemn you. I would have to say I don't find underpants in here anywhere. I think your missing the context. At one time or another I have given all that away. Except for the underpants. Do you really think I should repent because I haven't given away my used underpants??????


Luke 3:8-14
8 "Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.
9 "And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."
10 So the people asked him, saying, "What shall we do then?"
11 He answered and said to them, "He who has two tunics, let him give to him who has none; and he who has food, let him do likewise."
12 Then tax collectors also came to be baptized, and said to him, "Teacher, what shall we do?"
13 And he said to them, "Collect no more than what is appointed for you."
14 Likewise the soldiers asked him, saying, "And what shall we do?" So he said to them, "Do not intimidate anyone or accuse falsely, and be content with your wages."
(NKJ)

Matt 23:24-25
24 "Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
25 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.
(NKJ)

Squeaky
November 25th, 2017, 11:12 AM
The richness of Christ's isn't the wealth of this world, he refused everything satan had to offer and forsook the flesh to do the will of God. The riches that Christ Jesus brought us is the word of God through the Spirit to save us from the world and heal us, that's the riches that Christ gives us not worldly wealth.

I said
Bless you.

Squeaky
November 25th, 2017, 11:15 AM
Verse, please.



Verse where Jesus says that love has to do with being rich or not?



Correct.



Not what Jesus said at all. Jesus said that we will always have poor people. (Matthew 26)



So, now you are accusing God of making Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Salomon, etc., etc., to sin.

I said

James 2:1-9

1 My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality.
2 For if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes,
3 and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, "You sit here in a good place," and say to the poor man, "You stand there," or, "Sit here at my footstool,"
4 have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?
5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?
6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts?
7 Do they not blaspheme that noble name by which you are called?
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well;
9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
(NKJ)

marhig
November 25th, 2017, 12:01 PM
1 Timothy 6

But godliness with contentment is great gain.

For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out

And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses

Squeaky
November 25th, 2017, 12:05 PM
1 Timothy 6

And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses

I said
Very good.

iouae
November 25th, 2017, 02:30 PM
Do you really think I should repent because I haven't given away my used underpants??????


Luke 3:8-14

10 So the people asked him, saying, "What shall we do then?"
11 He answered and said to them, "He who has two tunics, let him give to him who has none; and he who has food, let him do likewise."
(NKJ)


I think you should feel terrible because you have eaten today but others have not.

My real question is - At what point should a Christian feel guilty that they have not given away enough?

Is it when the TV evangelist guilts you into giving to him?

Is it when the last person on earth is clothed and fed?

Is it when the last person on earth has heard the Gospel?

Or is it when no person is naked and hungry around you? For me it is the latter.

Squeaky
November 25th, 2017, 02:36 PM
I was wondering if you people that are arguing with all them scripture have a special number of times God has to say something before you believe it. The new testament is the word of faith. I think the problem is you people (some of you) don't know what sin is.

[Rom 14:23
23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because [he does] not [eat] from faith; for whatever [is] not from faith is sin.

[Jas 4:17
17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do [it], to him it is sin.
[1Jo 5:17
17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not [leading] to death.
[Jas 1:15
15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
[1Jo 1:8
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[1Jo 3:4
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

iouae
November 25th, 2017, 03:18 PM
I was wondering if you people that are arguing with all them scripture have a special number of times God has to say something before you believe it. The new testament is the word of faith.

Well use some of that NT faith to believe that it is not the $$ in your account when Christ returns which will qualify you, or disqualify you.

Squeaky
November 25th, 2017, 05:42 PM
Well use some of that NT faith to believe that it is not the $$ in your account when Christ returns which will qualify you, or disqualify you.

I said
Your really going to be disappointed on judgment day. Because it is a big deal with God. He calls them fool's. For God to call them fool's is the same thing as evil.

[Luk 12:16-20
16 Then He spoke a parable to them, saying: "The ground of a certain rich man yielded plentifully.
17 "And he thought within himself, saying, 'What shall I do, since I have no room to store my crops?'
18 "So he said, 'I will do this: I will pull down my barns and build greater, and there I will store all my crops and my goods.
19 'And I will say to my soul, "Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years; take your ease; eat, drink, [and] be merry." '
20 "But God said to him, 'Fool! This night your soul will be required of you; then whose will those things be which you have provided?'

2003cobra
November 25th, 2017, 10:26 PM
I do sin, I'm not perfect, I just hope that I don't wilfully sin because I know that it comes back on me if I do, we are to turn from sin, and if I realise that I have sinned, I go to God and say sorry. And if Christ is in our heart, then it is possible to overcome the works of the flesh and the ways of the world by the power of the Spirit, because he who is in those born of God is stronger than he who is of the world.
We agree, and praise the Lord together.

iouae
November 25th, 2017, 11:51 PM
I said
Your really going to be disappointed on judgment day. Because it is a big deal with God. He calls them fool's. For God to call them fool's is the same thing as evil.

[Luk 12:16-20
16 Then He spoke a parable to them, saying: "The ground of a certain rich man yielded plentifully.
17 "And he thought within himself, saying, 'What shall I do, since I have no room to store my crops?'
18 "So he said, 'I will do this: I will pull down my barns and build greater, and there I will store all my crops and my goods.
19 'And I will say to my soul, "Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years; take your ease; eat, drink, [and] be merry." '
20 "But God said to him, 'Fool! This night your soul will be required of you; then whose will those things be which you have provided?'

Squeaky, I presume that you are not a hypocrite, and have done these things, and given away all. How does it feel not knowing where tomorrows meal is coming from? Are you relying on some other Christian sharing their second last day's food with you?

Squeaky
November 26th, 2017, 03:02 AM
Squeaky, I presume that you are not a hypocrite, and have done these things, and given away all. How does it feel not knowing where tomorrows meal is coming from? Are you relying on some other Christian sharing their second last day's food with you?

I said
lol You really have a wild imagination full of self deception. Full of gross exaggerations. A born again Christian doesn't have all them tormenting emotions that you have. I have crucified all my emotions.

Gal 5:24-26
24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
(NKJ)

marhig
November 26th, 2017, 03:15 AM
I think you should feel terrible because you have eaten today but others have not.

My real question is - At what point should a Christian feel guilty that they have not given away enough?

Is it when the TV evangelist guilts you into giving to him?

Is it when the last person on earth is clothed and fed?

Is it when the last person on earth has heard the Gospel?

Or is it when no person is naked and hungry around you? For me it is the latter.

It's when we pass no person whom we meet or see that needs help, in anyway, we are to help them if we can, and it's bringing the word of God to whomsoever will listen, it's feeding and clothing, covering them inside with the spiritual food by breaking the bread and giving them natural food and clothing, naturally and spiritually, it's doing the will and works of God as Jesus did. We are never to be wary of giving, and we should always be ready and looking to help and bring the word of God to others, these things go hand in hand, if we are born of God, then Christ within should be changing our heart to be more like his, by the power of the Spirit. So it would be very hard to hold onto tons of money if we have a heart that is more like that of Christ, because he should be pricking us to help and see the need and not pass by.

There are homeless people here, I would bring them all home if I could but they are drug addicts and I have grandchildren here all the time so I can't. But if I had money, it would be gone on them, I couldn't have that in the bank and leave them outside. I said in our house meeting the other night that I wish we could try and get somewhere for them to stay. But one thing I can't do, I can't just pass them, God pricks my heart every time I see them. Even if it's just to give food and drink.

This is one area where I'm not doing enough, yet I'm not sure what to do, I hope and pray that God shows us all (who are willing) the need of others daily so that we can be given the chance to help. Our neighbour is whomsoever we meet on that day, and all those around us, and we should help when God shows us that they need help, whoever they are, and whatever they've done. Even if they've offended us, I believe the we are still to help them when they need help and go to God to ask for the strength and help to do these things. Because these are the works of God, and as he is changing our hearts, then we should help and care for others more.

iouae
November 26th, 2017, 05:59 AM
It's when we pass no person whom we meet or see that needs help, in anyway, we are to help them if we can, and it's bringing the word of God to whomsoever will listen, it's feeding and clothing, covering them inside with the spiritual food by breaking the bread and giving them natural food and clothing, naturally and spiritually, it's doing the will and works of God as Jesus did. We are never to be wary of giving, and we should always be ready and looking to help and bring the word of God to others, these things go hand in hand, if we are born of God, then Christ within should be changing our heart to be more like his, by the power of the Spirit. So it would be very hard to hold onto tons of money if we have a heart that is more like that of Christ, because he should be pricking us to help and see the need and not pass by.

There are homeless people here, I would bring them all home if I could but they are drug addicts and I have grandchildren here all the time so I can't. But if I had money, it would be gone on them, I couldn't have that in the bank and leave them outside. I said in our house meeting the other night that I wish we could try and get somewhere for them to stay. But one thing I can't do, I can't just pass them, God pricks my heart every time I see them. Even if it's just to give food and drink.

This is one area where I'm not doing enough, yet I'm not sure what to do, I hope and pray that God shows us all (who are willing) the need of others daily so that we can be given the chance to help. Our neighbour is whomsoever we meet on that day, and all those around us, and we should help when God shows us that they need help, whoever they are, and whatever they've done. Even if they've offended us, I believe the we are still to help them when they need help and go to God to ask for the strength and help to do these things. Because these are the works of God, and as he is changing our hearts, then we should help and care for others more.

I love your attitude Marhig.

But Squeaky says that being rich is a sin. You sound like you own a home. It's probably paid off. It's probably worth a million. I want to know from Squeaky whether your being rich is a sin.

I want to know from Squeaky whether every Christian homeowner, who's home is close to paid off, is, by default, a sinner.

I am trying to find out from Squeaky how poor one needs to be, to not be sinning.

Squeaky
November 26th, 2017, 07:22 AM
I love your attitude Marhig.

But Squeaky says that being rich is a sin. You sound like you own a home. It's probably paid off. It's probably worth a million. I want to know from Squeaky whether your being rich is a sin.

I want to know from Squeaky whether every Christian homeowner, who's home is close to paid off, is, by default, a sinner.

I am trying to find out from Squeaky how poor one needs to be, to not be sinning.

I said
I told you what I new about it. That society establishes what is rich. In the late 20th century they said that 120000 dollars annually was rich. In the early 21st they said 150000 annually was rich. I cant believe your ignorance on this. If a person made 160000 dollars a year, and they gave 10001 dollars to the poor . That would put them under being rich.

meshak
November 26th, 2017, 07:49 AM
American's standard for being rich is way off, IMO.

I am considered poor by their standards but I don't believe I am poor financially.

I believe I should be giving more to the poor.

I possess more than I need to live comfortably and enjoy my life.

I am relying on God's grace and mercy for my unfaithfulness.

Squeaky
November 26th, 2017, 08:11 AM
American's standard for being rich is way off, IMO.

I am considered poor by their standards but I don't believe I am poor financially.

I believe I should be giving more to the poor.

I possess more than I need to live comfortably and enjoy my life.

I am relying on God's grace and mercy for my unfaithfulness.

I said
That is why God gave us repentance. Now how many times a day can we repent and be forgiven?


Luke 17:3-4
3 "Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
4 "And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, 'I repent,' you shall forgive him."
(NKJ)

Matt 6:14-15
14 "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 "But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
(NKJ)

Mark 4:24-25
24 Then He said to them, "Take heed what you hear. With the same measure you use, it will be measured to you; and to you who hear, more will be given.
25 "For whoever has, to him more will be given; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him."
(NKJ)

meshak
November 26th, 2017, 09:35 AM
Jesus does not take light of neglecting the poor and needy.

So doing so is sin.

It is more serious if we try to make excuses of our neglecting them.

It is not right making excuses just because we don't like what He commands.

We are watering down His teachings by making excuses.

Squeaky
November 26th, 2017, 09:57 AM
Jesus does not take light of neglecting the poor and needy.

So doing so is sin.

It is more serious if we try to make excuses of our neglecting them.

It is not right making excuses just because we don't like what He commands.

We are watering down His teachings by making excuses.

I said
Your right He doesn't like excuses. But He does give us commands. On who to help. If we can hear the Holy Spirit and follow Him. With some whether poor or rich the Holy Spirit will guile us with

[Mat 7:6
6 "Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
[Phl 3:2
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation!
[Rev 22:15
15 But outside [are] dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

There are variables that you can only follow if you are walking after the Holy Spirit.

[Jas 1:25
25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues [in it], and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

[1Co 5:11
11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.
[1Co 8:7
7 However, [there is] not in everyone that knowledge; for some, with consciousness of the idol, until now eat [it] as a thing offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled.

marhig
November 26th, 2017, 12:25 PM
I love your attitude Marhig.

But Squeaky says that being rich is a sin. You sound like you own a home. It's probably paid off. It's probably worth a million. I want to know from Squeaky whether your being rich is a sin.

I want to know from Squeaky whether every Christian homeowner, who's home is close to paid off, is, by default, a sinner.

I am trying to find out from Squeaky how poor one needs to be, to not be sinning.


I love your attitude Marhig.

But Squeaky says that being rich is a sin. You sound like you own a home. It's probably paid off. It's probably worth a million. I want to know from Squeaky whether your being rich is a sin.

I want to know from Squeaky whether every Christian homeowner, who's home is close to paid off, is, by default, a sinner.

I am trying to find out from Squeaky how poor one needs to be, to not be sinning.

Blimey do i sound rich? I'm not, and I don't own my own home. I live in social housing, I don't know what it's called in America or elsewhere, but here its called a housing association house (council house) here in the UK, And I'm far from wealthy, we are blessed to have enough to get by each month, I don't have much left very often, but we have food, water, a roof over our heads and we can pay our bills with the wages we have coming in, and that's a blessing. I'm content with what I have. And I'm rich compared with many others, just to get by each day is a blessing from God, and I am rich in knowing God, I'm truly blessed that he even looked at me. Money means nothing compared to the riches that God blesses us with. And I'm rich in love [emoji4] and I have a big family around me. So I might not be naturally wealthy, but I'm wealthy in many other ways.

Also I think of Jesus, he came poor so that he could talk to, and help the poor. I don't think many of the poor would listen if he was wealthy and told them how to live whilst he himself lived in a palace and wasn't in the same situation as them. And i believe that he was also testing those who are wealthy and poor to see if they would accept a poor man preaching the gospel and believe in him.

He was able to help the poor because he was among them, so I'm quite happy where I am. As I said God has changed my heart so I'm not worried about having lots of money, I'm just grateful to get by, and I feel for those with even less, it must be very hard for them. But I believe that if I see the need, and I can help, then I should. Naturally and spiritually.

James 2

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Squeaky
November 26th, 2017, 01:18 PM
Blimey do i sound rich? I'm not, and I don't own my own home. I live in social housing, I don't know what it's called in America or elsewhere, but here its called a housing association house (council house) here in the UK, And I'm far from wealthy, we are blessed to have enough to get by each month, I don't have much left very often, but we have food, water, a roof over our heads and we can pay our bills with the wages we have coming in, and that's a blessing. I'm content with what I have. And I'm rich compared with many others, just to get by each day is a blessing from God, and I am rich in knowing God, I'm truly blessed that he even looked at me. Money means nothing compared to the riches that God blesses us with. And I'm rich in love [emoji4] and I have a big family around me. So I might not be naturally wealthy, but I'm wealthy in many other ways.

Also I think of Jesus, he came poor so that he could talk to, and help the poor. I don't think many of the poor would listen if he was wealthy and told them how to live whilst he himself lived in a palace and wasn't in the same situation as them. And i believe that he was also testing those who are wealthy and poor to see if they would accept a poor man preaching the gospel and believe in him.

He was able to help the poor because he was among them, so I'm quite happy where I am. As I said God has changed my heart so I'm not worried about having lots of money, I'm just grateful to get by, and I feel for those with even less, it must be very hard for them. But I believe that if I see the need, and I can help, then I should. Naturally and spiritually.

James 2

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

I said
You are truly blessed in your testimony.


Matt 7:13-14
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 "Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
(NKJ)

John 6:63
63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
(NKJ)

John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
(NKJ)

2 Cor 5:5
5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
(NKJ)

The rich will never know the joy and power of God until they become as little children to the Word.

Matt 18:3-4
3 and said, "Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
4 "Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
(NKJ)

iouae
November 26th, 2017, 01:29 PM
And I'm rich compared with many others, just to get by each day is a blessing from God, and I am rich in knowing God, I'm truly blessed that he even looked at me. Money means nothing compared to the riches that God blesses us with. And I'm rich in love [emoji4] and I have a big family around me. So I might not be naturally wealthy, but I'm wealthy in many other ways.

As I said God has changed my heart so I'm not worried about having lots of money, I'm just grateful to get by, and I feel for those with even less, it must be very hard for them. But I believe that if I see the need, and I can help, then I should. Naturally and spiritually.


Marhig, thanks for that. I praise your attitude towards wealth, and its relative importance to happiness.

And your desire to help others is an example to all of us.

We are told in 1Ti 6:8
And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

You seem to live this, and I try to do so too.

Where possible I try to give the poor food and clothes and stuff I don't need. Where possible I try not to give money, no matter the sob story, because I don't want to feed any addiction. But, there are times where one only has money to give when someone asks and one is away from home. Even then I prefer to go into a shop and buy them a loaf of bread and something to go on that, rather than give money.

If one is on the lookout for needs, sometimes one can give a pen to the person delivering a parcel to your door who has lost his. Or the delivery person may comment on how nice the spinach growing outside looks, and one can give him some fertiliser. I have done this, and had the same delivery person tell me months later how much better his plants are looking. And in supermarkets, just making smalltalk and being friendly to the cashier can make her day.

Many folks do not give money a second thought. I really believe Christ was like that. If someone poured expensive ointment on Him, he respected the love behind that action, not the money. Christ gave all the time, but it was the word and healing, very seldom money. Christ's lack of concern about money should be a pattern for us today.

Squeaky
November 26th, 2017, 03:31 PM
Jesus was very specific in what He said. He told the rich man there was still one thing he lacked. See all that he had and give it to the poor. Then and only then could the man come and follow Jesus.


[Luk 18:22
22 So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."

Squeaky
November 26th, 2017, 03:35 PM
Jesus had to give it all up to fulfill His ministry. So to follow Jesus we must do the same thing to follow Him. So that we might be rich in faith, as He was.

[2Co 8:9
9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich.

marhig
November 27th, 2017, 03:05 AM
Marhig, thanks for that. I praise your attitude towards wealth, and its relative importance to happiness.

And your desire to help others is an example to all of us.

We are told in 1Ti 6:8
And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

You seem to live this, and I try to do so too.

Where possible I try to give the poor food and clothes and stuff I don't need. Where possible I try not to give money, no matter the sob story, because I don't want to feed any addiction. But, there are times where one only has money to give when someone asks and one is away from home. Even then I prefer to go into a shop and buy them a loaf of bread and something to go on that, rather than give money.

If one is on the lookout for needs, sometimes one can give a pen to the person delivering a parcel to your door who has lost his. Or the delivery person may comment on how nice the spinach growing outside looks, and one can give him some fertiliser. I have done this, and had the same delivery person tell me months later how much better his plants are looking. And in supermarkets, just making smalltalk and being friendly to the cashier can make her day.

Many folks do not give money a second thought. I really believe Christ was like that. If someone poured expensive ointment on Him, he respected the love behind that action, not the money. Christ gave all the time, but it was the word and healing, very seldom money. Christ's lack of concern about money should be a pattern for us today.Yes it's not always money, it can be giving someone your time, or just speaking to someone who's lonely. The need can be many things. But I try to bring God into it and show that without him we wouldn't do those things. Well I know that without God I'd be far more selfish. I've seen what I can be like, my grandmother spoilt me, she didn't give me lots of things, but she did give in a lot if I threw a wobbler, she'd always wanted a girl and had 3 boys, i was her first granddaughter, and I'd have a fit as a child if I didn't get what I wanted. Luckily my mum was strong and she wasn't having any of it. I can imagine that I'd be incredibly selfish and I wouldn't notice much outside myself and my life if God hadn't blessed me and changed my heart.

But I believe that if we can't share what we have, and even be willing to let anything go for God and Christ's sake, then we have to listen to Jesus again and look at his life, because he let everything go, this world had nothing in him and nothing of it had a hold on his heart. His heart was all for God. And those who belong to him are not of this world either, so the things of this world shouldn't have a hold on us to the point that we can't let them go, and we should be able to let go when we see the need around us. That's how I believe anyway.

God's love and his strength and guidance is the only thing that I don't want to lose, and I know that I have to remain his goodness for him to remain with me, for God will not let his son see corruption, and he won't let him remain in a corrupt heart. We are to turn from sin and live by the will of God, and Christ through the Spirit will help us to overcome the world.

Squeaky
November 27th, 2017, 06:56 AM
Yes it's not always money, it can be giving someone your time, or just speaking to someone who's lonely. The need can be many things. But I try to bring God into it and show that without him we wouldn't do those things. Well I know that without God I'd be far more selfish. I've seen what I can be like, my grandmother spoilt me, she didn't give me lots of things, but she did give in a lot if I threw a wobbler, she'd always wanted a girl and had 3 boys, i was her first granddaughter, and I'd have a fit as a child if I didn't get what I wanted. Luckily my mum was strong and she wasn't having any of it. I can imagine that I'd be incredibly selfish and I wouldn't notice much outside myself and my life if God hadn't blessed me and changed my heart.

But I believe that if we can't share what we have, and even be willing to let anything go for God and Christ's sake, then we have to listen to Jesus again and look at his life, because he let everything go, this world had nothing in him and nothing of it had a hold on his heart. His heart was all for God. And those who belong to him are not of this world either, so the things of this world shouldn't have a hold on us to the point that we can't let them go, and we should be able to let go when we see the need around us. That's how I believe anyway.

God's love and his strength and guidance is the only thing that I don't want to lose, and I know that I have to remain his goodness for him to remain with me, for God will not let his son see corruption, and he won't let him remain in a corrupt heart. We are to turn from sin and live by the will of God, and Christ through the Spirit will help us to overcome the world.

I said

I Jn 2:12-17
12 I write to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for His name's sake.
13 I write to you, fathers, because you have known Him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you have overcome the wicked one. I write to you, little children, because you have known the Father.
14 I have written to you, fathers, because you have known Him who is from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the wicked one.
15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world-- the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life-- is not of the Father but is of the world.
17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
(NKJ)

Squeaky
November 27th, 2017, 01:58 PM
Look around you at all the sins that society justifies. Rich has always been right up there with the big ones.


1 Tim 6:10-11
10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11 But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness.
(NKJ)

iouae
November 28th, 2017, 12:58 AM
Look around you at all the sins that society justifies. Rich has always been right up there with the big ones.


If you are right, give me a dollar amount of capital that one can own without sinning.

meshak
November 28th, 2017, 02:21 AM
If you are right, give me a dollar amount of capital that one can own without sinning.

this is so lame, friend.

James36
November 28th, 2017, 03:22 AM
My view is that it's not all that clear because it doesn't condemn Earthly riches outright rather it's just stating that the more you have, the easier it is to lose sight of what is truly important. So i agree, rich people will find it more difficult to keep their focus on God, but it's not saying "Therefore, you should not be rich". Mark 10:25 says- It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God. The question here is if you have wealth, could you give it all away if God asked you too? If your answer is no, you should consider the place which wealth has in your life.

Squeaky
November 28th, 2017, 03:44 AM
If you are right, give me a dollar amount of capital that one can own without sinning.

I said
Society has labled rich around 150,000 dollars a year.

iouae
November 28th, 2017, 04:15 AM
I said
Society has labled rich around 150,000 dollars a year.

Fantastic news. I am safe from that sin.

meshak
November 28th, 2017, 05:32 AM
I said
Society has labled rich around 150,000 dollars a year.

that's way too high for Jesus' standard.

JudgeRightly
November 28th, 2017, 06:13 AM
that's way too high for Jesus' standard.

What should the punishment be for those who earn more than that per year?

Squeaky
November 28th, 2017, 07:35 AM
that's way too high for Jesus' standard.

I said
God has allowed man to set the standard for a few things. Like accountable age for children.

Squeaky
November 28th, 2017, 07:37 AM
What should the punishment be for those who earn more than that per year?

I said
Its not if they earn it but if they give it all away to the poor. And stay under that number.

JudgeRightly
November 28th, 2017, 07:40 AM
I said
Its not if they earn it but if they give it all away to the poor. And stay under that number.
Allow me to rephrase.

What should be the punishment for those who do not give away their wealth?

Squeaky
November 28th, 2017, 07:41 AM
Allow me to rephrase.

What should be the punishment for those who do not give away their wealth?

I said
We will know on judgment day.

JudgeRightly
November 28th, 2017, 07:47 AM
I said
We will know on judgment day.
Let me ask you this, Squeaky.

What if, instead of giving that wealth away, the rich person can use that money to employ poor people more effectively, and then make a profit from it, and then can grow his business?

What then?

Squeaky
November 28th, 2017, 08:14 AM
Let me ask you this, Squeaky.

What if, instead of giving that wealth away, the rich person can use that money to employ poor people more effectively, and then make a profit from it, and then can grow his business?

What then?

I said
Well you would have to ask yourself. Is that what God said to do? Or is your greed taking advantage of Gods goodness?

Squeaky
November 28th, 2017, 08:17 AM
God Does Not Accept Excuses. Only Obedience or repentance.

Rom 15:17-18
17 Therefore I have reason to glory in Christ Jesus in the things which pertain to God.
18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ has not accomplished through me, in word and deed, to make the Gentiles obedient--
2 Cor 2:8-9
8 Therefore I urge you to reaffirm your love to him.
9 For to this end I also wrote, that I might put you to the test, whether you are obedient in all things.
Phil 2:8-12
8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
1 Pet 1:13-17
13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance;
15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
16 because it is written, "Be holy, for I am holy."
17 And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear;
Rom 1:20-22
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
John 15:21-22
21 "But all these things they will do to you for My name's sake, because they do not know Him who sent Me.
22 "If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin.
(NKJ)

xxx God didnt create excuses, man did. God only accepts obedience or repentance. No excuses.

JudgeRightly
November 28th, 2017, 08:25 AM
I said
Well you would have to ask yourself. Is that what God said to do? Or is your greed taking advantage of Gods goodness?

Squeaky, how well can a poor man do Galatians 5:13?

How well can a rich man?

If a Christians becomes rich, would his desires tend towards Galatians 5:13 or away from that, considering that his fruits would be Galatians 5:22-23, considering verse 24?

Squeaky
November 28th, 2017, 09:51 AM
Squeaky, how well can a poor man do Galatians 5:13?

How well can a rich man?

If a Christians becomes rich, would his desires tend towards Galatians 5:13 or away from that, considering that his fruits would be Galatians 5:22-23, considering verse 24?

I said
lol You have danced around it and skirted it but you avoid it. If a rich man was giving as much as God required he wouldn't be rich anymore. If he gives but remains rich he is greedy and robbing the poor.

JudgeRightly
November 28th, 2017, 10:14 AM
I said
lol You have danced around it and skirted it but you avoid it. If a rich man was giving as much as God required he wouldn't be rich anymore. If he gives but remains rich he is greedy and robbing the poor.

But if he's poor, how can he employ others?

Is not providing a workplace for others serving them? and in turn, are they not serving him, and in turn, is he then not able to serve his customers better?

Is that not what Galatians 5:13 says, to serve one another? That's how an economy works, Squeaky, by man serving his fellow man.

A rich man can employ more people than a poor man can, can he not?

I'm trying to get you to think this issue through, Squeaky, instead of just repeating your beliefs over and over again.

If a business owner gave everything away in service to the Lord, he would have to lay off every single one of his employees, because he wouldn't be able to pay them anymore. How is that serving his fellow man?

Squeaky
November 28th, 2017, 10:20 AM
But if he's poor, how can he employ others?

Is not providing a workplace for others serving them? and in turn, are they not serving him, and in turn, is he then not able to serve his customers better?

Is that not what Galatians 5:13 says, to serve one another? That's how an economy works, Squeaky, by man serving his fellow man.

A rich man can employ more people than a poor man can, can he not?

I'm trying to get you to think this issue through, Squeaky, instead of just repeating your beliefs over and over again.

If a business owner gave everything away in service to the Lord, he would have to lay off every single one of his employees, because he wouldn't be able to pay them anymore. How is that serving his fellow man?

I said
That is all logic from the devil. If he was paying his employees what he is suppose to? Again he wouldn't be rich. His riches would be given to the employees.


James 5:1-6
1 Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you!
2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten.
3 Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days.
4 Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth.
5 You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as in a day of slaughter.
6 You have condemned, you have murdered the just; he does not resist you.
(NKJ)


If he is getting a big profit, he could also cut down on the price and show a little compassion on his customers.

JudgeRightly
November 28th, 2017, 09:22 PM
I said
That is all logic from the devil.

It's really not...


If he was paying his employees what he is suppose to?

Yes, if the business owner was paying his employees fair wage, being mindful of his income and expenses like any businessman worth his salt. If he was treating his employees right.


Again he wouldn't be rich. His riches would be given to the employees.

Are you sure, if he was doing everything right, his business would grow. He would be making more than he was spending, including paying his employees. He would eventually be able to hire more employees, and grow his business even more, and be able to serve more customers, provide a better product. He would be fulfilling Galatians 5:13.

For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. - Galatians 5:13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians5:13&version=NKJV


James 5:1-6
1Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you!
2Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten.
3Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days.
4Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth.
5You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as in a day of slaughter.
6You have condemned, you have murdered the just; he does not resist you.
(NKJ)

If he is getting a big profit, he could also cut down on the price and show a little compassion on his customers.

Squeaky, have you ever noticed what is said in verse 4 and verse 6?

Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. - James 5:4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James5:4&version=NKJV

Now, I'm not sure about your Bible, but the New King James Version has section titles, which briefly describe what the section of text in that chapter is about. While it obviously is not part of Scripture, it can give us a bit of context to what is being said.

Verses 1-6 are titled, "Rich Oppressors will be Judged."

Rich oppressors... Hmmm. That sounds like a specific group of those who are rich, and not just a blanket grouping of all rich people. But again, the title is not found in scripture, but is just something added by the compilers of the Bible version to make it easier to understand what is being said....

Verse 4 says that the laborers' wages were held back fraudulently. James, when simply reading through the section, seems to be condemning those who are oppressing their laborers (or to use another word, their employees) through fraud.

Verse 6 says that the righteous are being slaughtered because they are resisting. James is condemning this type of oppressor as well.

Also, as a side note, I don't see anywhere in that passage where it says that the riches just be given away... Do you have a verse that says that a rich Christian must give away his wealth instead of using it for good?

JudgeRightly
November 28th, 2017, 09:25 PM
If he is getting a big profit, he could also cut down on the price and show a little compassion on his customers.

What if his prices are already the cheapest items of that type being made? He can't make his product free, or he wouldn't make any money at all and his company would fail.

Squeaky
November 28th, 2017, 10:25 PM
It's really not...



Yes, if the business owner was paying his employees fair wage, being mindful of his income and expenses like any businessman worth his salt. If he was treating his employees right.



Are you sure, if he was doing everything right, his business would grow. He would be making more than he was spending, including paying his employees. He would eventually be able to hire more employees, and grow his business even more, and be able to serve more customers, provide a better product. He would be fulfilling Galatians 5:13.

For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. - Galatians 5:13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians5:13&version=NKJV



Squeaky, have you ever noticed what is said in verse 4 and verse 6?

Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. - James 5:4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James5:4&version=NKJV

Now, I'm not sure about your Bible, but the New King James Version has section titles, which briefly describe what the section of text in that chapter is about. While it obviously is not part of Scripture, it can give us a bit of context to what is being said.

Verses 1-6 are titled, "Rich Oppressors will be Judged."

Rich oppressors... Hmmm. That sounds like a specific group of those who are rich, and not just a blanket grouping of all rich people. But again, the title is not found in scripture, but is just something added by the compilers of the Bible version to make it easier to understand what is being said....

Verse 4 says that the laborers' wages were held back fraudulently. James, when simply reading through the section, seems to be condemning those who are oppressing their laborers (or to use another word, their employees) through fraud.

Verse 6 says that the righteous are being slaughtered because they are resisting. James is condemning this type of oppressor as well.

Also, as a side note, I don't see anywhere in that passage where it says that the riches just be given away... Do you have a verse that says that a rich Christian must give away his wealth instead of using it for good?

I said
A Christian is mindful of Gods Word. And if his business grows why cant the employees wages grow. What ever it takes to keep his self from falling under the rich curse. When he gets off into the rich curse he becomes a Rich oppressor

marhig
November 28th, 2017, 11:33 PM
https://www.facebook.com/bestthings.us/videos/512063339167479/

This video touched me, this shows us what we can be like, hopefully we won't ever be like this to others and remember that Jesus came as a poor man. And we should always love one another. And care for those in need not just those we love, because God loves all of us, every single one of us. And if we love him, we will love others too, regardless of who they are or whether they are rich or poor. And the love of God and life of Christ in our hearts should be changing our hearts to care more and be more like Jesus.

(I've started a thread with this too squeaky, hope it was ok to post it here) :)

Squeaky
November 29th, 2017, 01:38 AM
https://www.facebook.com/bestthings.us/videos/512063339167479/

This video touched me, this shows us what we can be like, hopefully we won't ever be like this to others and remember that Jesus came as a poor man. And we should always love one another. And care for those in need not just those we love, because God loves all of us, every single one of us. And if we love him, we will love others too, regardless of who they are or whether they are rich or poor. And the love of God and life of Christ in our hearts should be changing our hearts to care more and be more like Jesus.

(I've started a thread with this too squeaky, hope it was ok to post it here) :)

I said
Yes its ok.

JudgeRightly
November 29th, 2017, 09:43 AM
I said
A Christian is mindful of Gods Word. And if his business grows why cant the employees wages grow.

Nothing wrong with that.


What ever it takes to keep himself from falling under the rich curse. When he gets off into the rich curse he becomes a Rich oppressor

So as long as he's not oppressing his employees, it's ok for him to be rich?

CabinetMaker
November 29th, 2017, 09:46 AM
Poor King Solomon. God must not have loved him very much.

CabinetMaker
November 29th, 2017, 09:51 AM
I said
lol That's new, and honest question. No sarcasm, no insults. Society sets the limit on a lot of things. Like what rich is, accountable age for children. The last I heard in 2000 was 150,000 dollars annual income. I know know today.
This seems a rather arbitrary number. I live in the U.S. and make something close to that number. I am struggling to get my two daughters through college. If I lived in some other part of the world, I could darn near live like a king on my income.

Having wealth is not a sin. There is no commandment that says, 'Thou shalt not be wealthy." I think the question becomes one of what you do with that wealth. Greed is considered on of the 7 deadly sins, the whole two masters thing. Wealth for the sake of wealth = greed. Wealth used to to help others = loving your neighbor.

Squeaky
November 29th, 2017, 10:25 AM
Nothing wrong with that.



So as long as he's not oppressing his employees, it's ok for him to be rich?

I said
lol Your really not listening. Rich is a sin. Anything he can do to stay under the rich title is ok. God gives us a lot of stuff to give to others. That is called prospering. But no matter how much we prosper we should give it away to stay under the title of rich. Or we are walking in sin.

Squeaky
November 29th, 2017, 10:29 AM
Poor King Solomon. God must not have loved him very much.

I said
lol Don't forget if anyone in the old testament would have found the truth. Jesus wouldn't have had to come. And what did Jesus say about the old testament?

[Jhn 10:8-9
8 "All who [ever] came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

JudgeRightly
November 29th, 2017, 11:22 AM
I said
lol Your really not listening. Rich is a sin.

The Bible does not say that.

If it does, could you please provide the verse or verses that say such?


Anything he can do to stay under the rich title is ok.

So he can't make a profit off his successful business, and improve his standard of living?


God gives us a lot of stuff to give to others.

What about a wife and children? If a man has many children, should he start giving them away, so that he doesn't have too many?


That is called prospering.

Prosper: succeed in material terms; be financially successful.


But no matter how much we prosper we should give it away to stay under the title of rich. Or we are walking in sin.

The Bible does not tell us Christians to give everything away.

CabinetMaker
November 29th, 2017, 11:27 AM
I said
lol Don't forget if anyone in the old testament would have found the truth. Jesus wouldn't have had to come. And what did Jesus say about the old testament?

[Jhn 10:8-9
8 "All who [ever] came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
But God was pleased with Solomon, so much so that God gave Solomon his wealth.

1 Kings 3: 9 So give your servant a discerning heart to govern your people and to distinguish between right and wrong. For who is able to govern this great people of yours?” 10 The Lord was pleased that Solomon had asked for this. 11 So God said to him, “Since you have asked for this and not for long life or wealth for yourself, nor have asked for the death of your enemies but for discernment in administering justice, 12 I will do what you have asked. I will give you a wise and discerning heart, so that there will never have been anyone like you, nor will there ever be. 13 Moreover, I will give you what you have not asked for—both wealth and honor—so that in your lifetime you will have no equal among kings. 14 And if you walk in obedience to me and keep my decrees and commands as David your father did, I will give you a long life.”

Hawkins
November 29th, 2017, 11:43 AM
But God was pleased with Solomon, so much so that God gave Solomon his wealth.


That's why the Jews have an set aside set of Law (Mosaic Law). In the past, we only know of those living among us as our legitimate neighbors. Watching a neighbor dying but without lending a helping hand could possibly be a murderous act in terms of the conscience made available to the gentiles.

Today, we all know that children in African are dying of hunger. Unlike ancient humans, modern humans can reach that status of children in Africa. They can well be our neighbors. It is possible that it's us who lost the correct conscience. Jesus said that the Jews can have multiple wives under Mosaic Law as a result of hardening of hearts. Similar, our original conscience (Law of gentiles) may consider that watching the dying of neighbors is a sin.

We have all our money to spend with all the food in excess while "watching" with consent that children in Africa are dying of hunger, we are sinning as murderers though we no longer perceive our conscience correctly.

I actually speculate that Satan will accuse everyone as a murderer this way on the Judgment Day, his accusation has no effect on Christians though.

Revelation 12:10 (NIV2011)
10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.

CabinetMaker
November 29th, 2017, 11:55 AM
That's why the Jews have an set aside set of Law (Mosaic Law). In the past, we only know of those living among us as our legitimate neighbors. Watching a neighbor dying but without lending a helping hand could possibly be a murderous act in terms of the conscience made available to the gentiles.

Today, we all know that children in African are dying of hunger. Unlike ancient humans, modern humans can reach that status of children in Africa. They can well be our neighbors. It is possible that it's us who lost the correct conscience. Jesus said that the Jews can have multiple wives under Mosaic Law as a result of hardening of hearts. Similar, our original conscience (Law of gentiles) may consider that watching the dying of neighbors is a sin.

We have all our money to spend with all the food in excess while "watching" with consent that children in Africa are dying of hunger, we are sinning as murderers though we no longer perceive our conscience correctly.

I actually speculate that Satan will accuse everyone as a murderer this way on the Judgment Day, his accusation has no effect on Christians though.

Revelation 12:10 (NIV2011)
10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.

While its true that many are dying in Africa, it is equally true that many of your neighbors right here are home are in dire straights. We need to look much closer to home sometimes and help those neighbors as well.

Hawkins
November 29th, 2017, 12:08 PM
While its true that many are dying in Africa, it is equally true that many of your neighbors right here are home are in dire straights. We need to look much closer to home sometimes and help those neighbors as well.

You are right. However in my opinion, all Christians have a new mission to achieve. Saving the souls are far more important. We are all in such a mission of saving human souls.

If one's body is not saved, he dies his first death. If one's soul is not saved, he dies his second death.

SabathMoon
November 29th, 2017, 12:12 PM
The bible says being rich lazy and inhospitable is a sin?

Squeaky
November 29th, 2017, 12:25 PM
The Bible does not say that.

If it does, could you please provide the verse or verses that say such?



So he can't make a profit off his successful business, and improve his standard of living?



What about a wife and children? If a man has many children, should he start giving them away, so that he doesn't have too many?



Prosper: succeed in material terms; be financially successful.



The Bible does not tell us Christians to give everything away.

I said
lol Your just rambling now. And yes it does say it.

[Mat 19:21-24
21 Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24 "And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Squeaky
November 29th, 2017, 12:32 PM
But God was pleased with Solomon, so much so that God gave Solomon his wealth.

1 Kings 3: 9 So give your servant a discerning heart to govern your people and to distinguish between right and wrong. For who is able to govern this great people of yours?” 10 The Lord was pleased that Solomon had asked for this. 11 So God said to him, “Since you have asked for this and not for long life or wealth for yourself, nor have asked for the death of your enemies but for discernment in administering justice, 12 I will do what you have asked. I will give you a wise and discerning heart, so that there will never have been anyone like you, nor will there ever be. 13 Moreover, I will give you what you have not asked for—both wealth and honor—so that in your lifetime you will have no equal among kings. 14 And if you walk in obedience to me and keep my decrees and commands as David your father did, I will give you a long life.”

I said
And the new testament says Jesus changed the law, annulled the commandments, and made the old testament obsolete. And if you don't abide in the new testament you don't have the right God.

[2Jo 1:7-11
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ [as] coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but [that] we may receive a full reward.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.

And if you keep anything in the old testament that Jesus hasn't brought over to the new testament. You have fallen from grace and are subject to the whole old testament.

[Gal 5:1-4
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who [attempt to] be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Squeaky
November 29th, 2017, 12:34 PM
The bible says being rich lazy and inhospitable is a sin?

I said
I'm finding not everyone knows that yet.

JudgeRightly
November 29th, 2017, 04:00 PM
I said
lol Your just rambling now. And yes it does say it.

[Mat 19:21-24
21 Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24 "And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

I figured you might bring that up.

Here, I'll even give you another verse that says to sell all one has.

Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ”And he said, “All these things I have kept from my youth.”So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” - Luke 18:18-22 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke18:18-22&version=NKJV

Here's the catch though. NEITHER of those passages, yours nor mine, answer my challenge.

Squeaky, did you not notice that I said "Christians"?

I meant Christians.
Not the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Try again. (Hint, try using Paul's epistles, as he's the one who wrote mostly to Christians.)

JudgeRightly
November 29th, 2017, 04:01 PM
But God was pleased with Solomon, so much so that God gave Solomon his wealth.

1 Kings 3: 9 So give your servant a discerning heart to govern your people and to distinguish between right and wrong. For who is able to govern this great people of yours?” 10 The Lord was pleased that Solomon had asked for this. 11 So God said to him, “Since you have asked for this and not for long life or wealth for yourself, nor have asked for the death of your enemies but for discernment in administering justice, 12 I will do what you have asked. I will give you a wise and discerning heart, so that there will never have been anyone like you, nor will there ever be. 13 Moreover, I will give you what you have not asked for—both wealth and honor—so that in your lifetime you will have no equal among kings. 14 And if you walk in obedience to me and keep my decrees and commands as David your father did, I will give you a long life.”
Then according to the Doctrine of Squeaky, Solomon should have given it all away, to remain unrich.

CabinetMaker
November 29th, 2017, 04:06 PM
Then according to the Doctrine of Squeaky, Solomon should have given it all away, to remain unrich.

Since God does not change, I don't see how Squeaky can conclude anything else.

JudgeRightly
November 29th, 2017, 04:15 PM
Since God does not change,

He does, but that's a topic for another time.


I don't see how Squeaky can conclude anything else.

So then why didn't Solomon?

CabinetMaker
November 29th, 2017, 04:20 PM
He does, but that's a topic for another time.I don't believe God changes, I believe that how He interacts with His creation does change. But we can leave that for another day, another thread.




So then why didn't Solomon?

My guess, Squeakey's analysis is incorrect.

JudgeRightly
November 29th, 2017, 04:35 PM
I don't believe God changes, I believe that how He interacts with His creation does change. But we can leave that for another day, another thread.





My guess, Squeakey's analysis is incorrect.
So then you would agree that being rich is not inherently a sin?

CabinetMaker
November 29th, 2017, 04:42 PM
So then you would agree that being rich is not inherently a sin?

I agree. That does not mean that being rich is not fraught with peril. It is easier, after all, to fit a camel through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to go to heaven.

iouae
November 29th, 2017, 05:01 PM
When God instituted the Old Covenant (OC) I think He had Deut 28 in mind.

God would choose a nation and show His favour to them by blessing them with wealth. Read all the material blessings which God promises for obedience in Deut 28.

Gentile nations, seeing this display of God's blessing, would, like the Queen of Sheba, come to see and worship the God of Israel. Wealth is one thing which REALLY impresses the carnal, pagan mind.

Trouble is...
God also promised to curse Israel for disobedience.

Israel was never obedient long enough for it to set a good example to the surrounding nations. Even Solomon started to go wrong towards the end of his reign.

Thus, the OC failed to achieve its purpose. God would not bless a rebellious and disobedient nation, so there were few periods in OC history that God could use Israel as the poster-nation of prosperity.

There was a definite association in the Jewish mind between blessing and prosperity.

This all changed with the New Covenant (NC).

God abandoned the idea of a one to one relationship between His favour and prosperity.
God went out of His way to kill the idea that a blessed Christian is a wealthy Christian.

I am not agreeing with Squeaky by saying this. Wealth is not, nor ever has been a sin.

But under the new covenant, all apostles, and Christ, were poor. The leading lights of the NC were not wealthy. God was going to demonstrate blessing without wealth. The fruit of the Spirit was going to be...
Gal 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,...

Many Christians would die in the arena, mauled by beasts, having all their property confiscated. There was no more blessed Christian than this.

Wealth, per se, has never been the issue. I think it's wonderful when a Christian is wealthy and employs others, paying them a good wage. I think it's wonderful when Christians have enough for themselves that they have extra to give away. I think this sets a wonderful example. But notice under the NC one is not even allowed to advertise the fact that you are a generous person.
Mat 6:2
Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

It is the fruit of the spirit, not their wealth which sets Christians apart. After all, there are many rich atheists.

Squeaky
November 29th, 2017, 05:17 PM
I figured you might bring that up.

Here, I'll even give you another verse that says to sell all one has.

Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ”And he said, “All these things I have kept from my youth.”So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” - Luke 18:18-22 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke18:18-22&version=NKJV

Here's the catch though. NEITHER of those passages, yours nor mine, answer my challenge.

Squeaky, did you not notice that I said "Christians"?

I meant Christians.
Not the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Try again. (Hint, try using Paul's epistles, as he's the one who wrote mostly to Christians.)

I said
lol Your rambling again.

Squeaky
November 29th, 2017, 05:19 PM
But God was pleased with Solomon, so much so that God gave Solomon his wealth.

1 Kings 3: 9 So give your servant a discerning heart to govern your people and to distinguish between right and wrong. For who is able to govern this great people of yours?” 10 The Lord was pleased that Solomon had asked for this. 11 So God said to him, “Since you have asked for this and not for long life or wealth for yourself, nor have asked for the death of your enemies but for discernment in administering justice, 12 I will do what you have asked. I will give you a wise and discerning heart, so that there will never have been anyone like you, nor will there ever be. 13 Moreover, I will give you what you have not asked for—both wealth and honor—so that in your lifetime you will have no equal among kings. 14 And if you walk in obedience to me and keep my decrees and commands as David your father did, I will give you a long life.”

I said
You don't seem to have a grip on the new testament. Its a new set of laws, and new commandments, and the old testament is obsolete. And if you try to be justified by the old testament you will fall from grace.

Squeaky
November 29th, 2017, 05:22 PM
I don't believe God changes, I believe that how He interacts with His creation does change. But we can leave that for another day, another thread.


I said
lol As long as your just guessing. No harm done.


My guess, Squeakey's analysis is incorrect.

Squeaky
December 2nd, 2017, 10:38 AM
Consolation

[Luk 6:24-26
24 "But woe to you who are rich, For you have received your consolation.
25 Woe to you who are full, For you shall hunger. Woe to you who laugh now, For you shall mourn and weep.
26 Woe to you when all men speak well of you, For so did their fathers to the false prophets.
[2Co 1:5-11
5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also abounds through Christ.
6 Now if we are afflicted, [it is] for your consolation and salvation, which is effective for enduring the same sufferings which we also suffer. Or if we are comforted, [it is] for your consolation and salvation.
7 And our hope for you [is] steadfast, because we know that as you are partakers of the sufferings, so also [you will partake] of the consolation.
8 For we do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, of our trouble which came to us in Asia: that we were burdened beyond measure, above strength, so that we despaired even of life.
9 Yes, we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves but in God who raises the dead,
10 who delivered us from so great a death, and does deliver us; in whom we trust that He will still deliver [us],
11 you also helping together in prayer for us, that thanks may be given by many persons on our behalf for the gift [granted] to us through many.
[Heb 6:17-20
17 Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed [it] by an oath,
18 that by two immutable things, in which it [is] impossible for God to lie, we might have strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before [us].
19 This [hope] we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the [Presence] behind the veil,
20 where the forerunner has entered for us, [even] Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.


3874 paraklesis (par-ak'-lay-sis);

from 3870; imploration, hortation, solace:

KJV-- comfort, consolation, exhortation, intreaty.