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Jacob
November 11th, 2017, 08:57 PM
Shalom.

Today is Rishon, 8-23.

I just wanted to start this thread to say that you should believe in God!

Shalom.

Jacob

Jacob
November 13th, 2017, 02:28 PM
What are your thoughts about belief in God? Do you believe in God? You should believe in God.

Jacob
November 14th, 2017, 06:29 PM
We all should believe in God. Believe in God! Do you believe in God? You should! You should believe in God!

Tigger 2
November 15th, 2017, 12:23 AM
It depends on what God you believe in. Is your God a trinity? Is it the Father and the Son? Or is it what scripture tells us that YHWH alone is God. YHWH in English is traditionally translated as Jehovah. More recently Yahweh is the name some scholars prefer.

However, if you are a KJVonlyist, you have to believe that His name is Jehovah - Ps. 83:18, KJV.

Tigger 2
November 15th, 2017, 12:29 AM
That should have been Psalm 83:18.

Is there any way to edit one's posts?

Jacob
November 15th, 2017, 12:36 AM
It depends on what God you believe in. Is your God a trinity? Is it the Father and the Son? Or is it what scripture tells us that YHWH alone is God. YHWH in English is traditionally translated as Jehovah. More recently Yahweh is the name some scholars prefer.

However, if you are a KJVonlyist, you have to believe that His name is Jehovah - Ps. 83:16, KJV.
That should have been Psalm 83:18.

Is there any way to edit one's posts?
Shalom.

Do you know the Shema?

Shema Yisrael Yahveh Eloheinu Yahveh Echad.

Translated this is

Hear Israel Yahveh our God Yahveh is one.

A person can edit their posts on this site after they have made a certain number of posts, I believe.

Shalom.

Jacob

Tigger 2
November 15th, 2017, 12:56 AM
Thanks Jacob, I look forward to editing out all my bloopers.

Of course, the Shema is the keynote for the Jews (and real Christians).

Is. 37:16 is also notable: "O Jehovah of hosts, the God of Israel, that sittest above the cherubim, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth. - ASV.

And Is 64:8, "But now, O Jehovah, thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand." - ASV.

Jacob
November 15th, 2017, 01:04 AM
Thanks Jacob, I look forward to editing out all my bloopers.

Of course, the Shema is the keynote for the Jews (and real Christians).

Is. 37:16 is also notable: "O Jehovah of hosts, the God of Israel, that sittest above the cherubim, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth. - ASV.

And Is 64:8, "But now, O Jehovah, thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand." - ASV.

I am a Jew. I accept the TaNaKh and Matthew through Revelation. I accept Yeshua as the Messiah. Our Messiah. God's Messiah.

iamaberean
November 16th, 2017, 04:35 AM
Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Joh 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
Joh 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Jacob
November 16th, 2017, 12:08 PM
Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Joh 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
Joh 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
I am glad that you shared this here.

Tigger 2
November 16th, 2017, 10:14 PM
Jacob,

I notice that you use vav rather than waw. So where you would write YHVH, I would write YHWH. It's my understanding that waw is the earlier use, and vav is modern Hebrew. Is this your understanding?

Jacob
November 16th, 2017, 10:22 PM
Jacob,

I notice that you use vav rather than waw. So where you would write YHVH, I would write YHWH. It's my understanding that waw is the earlier use, and vav is modern Hebrew. Is this your understanding?
Shalom.

No. And someone told me the Waw or YHWH is Aramaic. Are you asking if the vav received its name in the recovery of Hebrew? I do not know that either. The vav has a v sound.

Shalom.

Jacob

Tigger 2
November 16th, 2017, 11:38 PM
"There is no real question that in Biblical times the ו was pronounced as W (as in west). .... But the shift to the V pronunciation has a clear analogy. In classical times, Latin V was pronounced like English W. The word for "I saw" was vidi pronounced as widi, not as vidi. But as time passed, pronunciation changed, so that in Ecclesiastical Latin it is now pronounced as vidi." - A Modern Grammar for Biblical Hebrew, by Duane A. Garrett.

"Most scholars agree that the ancient pronunciation of the letter was more like a 'W' and less like the 'V' that it currently represents in the Modern Hebrew language." - BIBLICAL ANTHROPOLOGY: Etymology of the Vav

Jacob
November 17th, 2017, 01:36 PM
"There is no real question that in Biblical times the ו was pronounced as W (as in west). .... But the shift to the V pronunciation has a clear analogy. In classical times, Latin V was pronounced like English W. The word for "I saw" was vidi pronounced as widi, not as vidi. But as time passed, pronunciation changed, so that in Ecclesiastical Latin it is now pronounced as vidi." - A Modern Grammar for Biblical Hebrew, by Duane A. Garrett.

"Most scholars agree that the ancient pronunciation of the letter was more like a 'W' and less like the 'V' that it currently represents in the Modern Hebrew language." - BIBLICAL ANTHROPOLOGY: Etymology of the Vav
When I read the Torah it is a Vav.

Tigger 2
November 17th, 2017, 03:10 PM
When I read the Torah it is a Vav.

That is certainly your prerogative. But the fact remains that those who originally wrote it pronounced it 'Waw.'

Jacob
November 17th, 2017, 03:21 PM
That is certainly your prerogative. But the fact remains that those who originally wrote it pronounced it 'Waw.'
I do not know that to be the case.

Jacob
November 17th, 2017, 03:50 PM
That there is a Vav in modern Hebrew does not mean that there is and was no Vav in the Torah.

Tigger 2
November 17th, 2017, 09:34 PM
"Most Semitic scholars transliterate waw as a 'w' or a 'u', depending on school and pronunciation. Vav and the use of V, did not originate till later. ....

"In Biblical Hebrew, Samaritan Hebrew Waw was a W/U. Greek did not have a V, neither did Akkadian, Arabic or Ethiopic, Waw is W. An old Persian syllabary, in cuneiform, has a wa and a wi, but no v's, yet later Persian did." - http://www.lebtahor.com/Hebrew/waw.htm

"WAW (ו):
(Redirected from VAV.)
"Sixth letter of the Hebrew alphabet. The name possibly means 'nail' or 'hook,' and the shape of the letter in the Phenician alphabet bears some resemblance to a hook. 'Waw' is a labial spirant, identical in sound with the English 'w.' When preceded by the labial vowel 'u,' it blends with it ('uw'), the result being a long u-sound; and when an a-vowel precedes it, the two form the diphthong 'au,' which in Hebrew has passed into 'o.' At the beginning of a word (a position it rarely has in Hebrew) "waw" retains its consonantal value, except when followed by פ, נ, מ, or a letter with simple 'shewa.' As the first letter of verb-stems it has been replaced in Hebrew almost everywhere by 'yod.' As a numeral (in the later period) 'waw' has the value of 6." - "The unedited full-text of the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia"


"Most scholars agree that the ancient pronunciation of the letter was more like a 'W' and less like the 'V' that it currently represents in the Modern Hebrew language. This assertion has a lot of support if we simply look around at modern use in other Semitic languages. In Arabic, for example, there is only the 'W' sound, as the 'V' sound does not exist. Among certain Jewish pronunciations, the original still holds true, as Yemenite Jews to this day pronounce the Vav as a 'W' in specific cases." - http://www.hebrewtoday.com/content/hebrew-alphabet-letter-vav-%D7%95

And yet, I don't see a problem with using the modern transliteration. We have enough real problems with more important points of translation of Biblical words and transliteration of Biblical names.

Jacob
November 20th, 2017, 01:00 AM
"Most Semitic scholars transliterate waw as a 'w' or a 'u', depending on school and pronunciation. Vav and the use of V, did not originate till later. ....

"In Biblical Hebrew, Samaritan Hebrew Waw was a W/U. Greek did not have a V, neither did Akkadian, Arabic or Ethiopic, Waw is W. An old Persian syllabary, in cuneiform, has a wa and a wi, but no v's, yet later Persian did." - http://www.lebtahor.com/Hebrew/waw.htm

"WAW (ו):
(Redirected from VAV.)
"Sixth letter of the Hebrew alphabet. The name possibly means 'nail' or 'hook,' and the shape of the letter in the Phenician alphabet bears some resemblance to a hook. 'Waw' is a labial spirant, identical in sound with the English 'w.' When preceded by the labial vowel 'u,' it blends with it ('uw'), the result being a long u-sound; and when an a-vowel precedes it, the two form the diphthong 'au,' which in Hebrew has passed into 'o.' At the beginning of a word (a position it rarely has in Hebrew) "waw" retains its consonantal value, except when followed by פ, נ, מ, or a letter with simple 'shewa.' As the first letter of verb-stems it has been replaced in Hebrew almost everywhere by 'yod.' As a numeral (in the later period) 'waw' has the value of 6." - "The unedited full-text of the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia"


"Most scholars agree that the ancient pronunciation of the letter was more like a 'W' and less like the 'V' that it currently represents in the Modern Hebrew language. This assertion has a lot of support if we simply look around at modern use in other Semitic languages. In Arabic, for example, there is only the 'W' sound, as the 'V' sound does not exist. Among certain Jewish pronunciations, the original still holds true, as Yemenite Jews to this day pronounce the Vav as a 'W' in specific cases." - http://www.hebrewtoday.com/content/hebrew-alphabet-letter-vav-%D7%95

And yet, I don't see a problem with using the modern transliteration. We have enough real problems with more important points of translation of Biblical words and transliteration of Biblical names.

Shalom.

The Vav has a 'V' sound.

Here is God's name, beginning with Hebrew. Next the Hebrew letters. English letters. And the pronunciation in English, meaning using English letters we can pronounce the name of God as it is in the Hebrew.

יהוה
Yod Hey Vav Hey
YHVH
Yahveh