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JudgeRightly
October 22nd, 2017, 08:18 AM
popsthebuilder

You claim that Paul's message/gospel is the same as Jesus', James', Peter's, et al's gospel, and that Paul's Gospel is only different when taken out of context.

Would you like to make any other points to begin this thread?

popsthebuilder
October 22nd, 2017, 08:21 AM
popsthebuilder

You claim that Paul's message/gospel is the same as Jesus', James', Peter's, et al's gospel, and that Paul's Gospel is only different when taken out of context.

Would you like to make any other points to begin this thread?Sure.

The gospel and will of GOD has been without change since before the formation of the worlds

Now, if you would; please show the differences you perceive, and I will, from those, show that they are indeed the same.

Thanks for starting this thread; I look forward to a leveled peaceable conversation.

Robert Pate
October 22nd, 2017, 08:26 AM
There is only one Gospel. It is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Jesus did not preach it. He left that up to the apostles.

JudgeRightly
October 22nd, 2017, 08:38 AM
Sure.

The gospel and will of GOD has been without change since before the formation of the worlds

Now, if you would; please show the differences you perceive, and I will, from those, show that they are indeed the same.

Thanks for starting this thread; I look forward to a leveled peaceable conversation.

Pops, would you agree that many of the conflicts that divide the Christian Church today, including baptism, eternal security, "faith" vs "works + faith", all have both sides of their arguments rooted in differing scriptures?

(For example, James 2:24 vs Romans 4:5, Romans 8:37-39 vs 2 Peter 2:20-21, etc.)

In other words, are you aware that there are apparent conflicts between different scripture verses within the Bible?

popsthebuilder
October 22nd, 2017, 08:41 AM
Pops, would you agree that many of the conflicts that divide the Christian Church today, including baptism, eternal security, "faith" vs "works + faith", all have both sides of their arguments rooted in differing scriptures?

(For example, James 2:24 vs Romans 4:5, Romans 8:37-39 vs 2 Peter 2:20-21, etc.)

In other words, are you aware that there are apparent conflicts between different scripture verses within the Bible?No... I do not believe that any sacred texts containing the word of GOD is contradictory. If it is then, to me, that is a sign that one part or the other is indeed opposed to the word of GOD, and as such, of a separate, different nature. Either that, or one is misunderstanding one or the other or both. GOD doesn't make mistakes; never has.

We are going to focus on the scriptures ascribed to Jesus, and St. Paul, right?

popsthebuilder
October 22nd, 2017, 08:48 AM
(If all power is given Christ which is the head of the church (congregation of faithful to GOD through Christ) then it stands to reason that those who are His are made holy by His work and will, and to His glory, though it be done through the vessel of the believer in which Christ dwells in and directs. Is all power synonymous with not enough power to even abide by one's own conscience?

Sorry; was just reading. It isn't the best to start my side of the argument, but it works while I await your own.)

Ephesians 1: 4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8. Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9. Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10. That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11. In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12. That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14. Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15. Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, 16. Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; 17. That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18. The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19. And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to usward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20. Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21. Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22. And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23. Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
(pretty sure those are ascribed to St. Paul.)

JudgeRightly
October 22nd, 2017, 08:50 AM
No... I do not believe that any sacred texts containing the word of GOD is contradictory.

I agree, there are no contradictions. My question, however, is not "are there contradictions," my question is "do some verses seem to contradict on the surface?"


If it is then, to me, that is a sign that one part or the other is indeed opposed to the word of GOD, and as such, of a separate, different nature.

Again, my question is not "do they contradict" but "does it seem like they contradict, at least on the surface.


We are going to focus on the scriptures ascribed to Jesus, and St. Paul, right?

We will focus on the Bible as a whole, including the words spoken by Jesus and Paul.

popsthebuilder
October 22nd, 2017, 08:52 AM
I agree, there are no contradictions. My question, however, is not "are there contradictions," my question is "do some verses seem to contradict on the surface?"



Again, my question is not "do they contradict" but "does it seem like they contradict, at least on the surface.



We will focus on the Bible as a whole, including the words spoken by Jesus and Paul.Yes then; I agree that to some, and, or, at first glance; some texts can seem to be contradictory in mans partial understanding and knowledge.

popsthebuilder
October 22nd, 2017, 09:01 AM
(we see here repeatedly that though the work of GOD, saith is with effect and that effect is the fruit of the Spirit, not of man. The same can easily and readily be found throughout all of scripture.)

Ephesians 2: 1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7. That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9. Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. 11. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12. That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13. But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16. And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17. And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21. In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22. In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

(I will wait for your response)

JudgeRightly
October 22nd, 2017, 09:06 AM
Yes then; I agree that to some, and, or, at first glance; some texts can seem to be contradictory in mans partial understanding and knowledge.
What about verses that blatantly contradict each other?

Such as these two?

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,not of works, lest anyone should boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians2:8-9&version=NKJV

Paul says "you have been saved through faith . . . not by works."

You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. - James 2:24 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James2:24&version=NKJV

James says "A man is justified (ie saved) by works."

How do you reconcile those two verses?

popsthebuilder
October 22nd, 2017, 09:20 AM
What about verses that blatantly contradict each other?

Such as these two?

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,not of works, lest anyone should boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians2:8-9&version=NKJV

Paul says "you have been saved through faith . . . not by works."

You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. - James 2:24 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James2:24&version=NKJV

James says "A man is justified (ie saved) by works."

How do you reconcile those two verses?Simply and easily; works pleasing to GOD are not the works of man done for the sight of man, but are the product of effectual Faith. Change is preached in our gospel by the high priest directly; from one state, to another. I can attest to this and too verify it as it has happened in my sight, my the Grace of GOD. Would you have us believe for one second that St. Paul spoke another gospel; one of reverent indifference and utter lack of change?

What of all the verses that say we will be made righteous and holy and good and pleasing, and sons of GOD? Don't you know that good has no fellowship with evil?

popsthebuilder
October 22nd, 2017, 09:23 AM
Double post due to lag....deleted.

Sorry

beameup
October 22nd, 2017, 09:24 AM
The "Gospel of the Kingdom" had its beginning in the ministry of John the Baptist.
It called for "National Repentance" to prepare the way for the coming of Messiah
to set-up the Kingdom on earth (ie: Millennial Kingdom). Jesus ministry further
amplified the Law so that all Israel was in need of repentance. This
"Gospel of the Kingdom" will once again be preached in Israel, after the departure
of the "Church" (ie: Body of Christ), and also during the Tribulation, preparing
the way for the return of Messiah to the earth. Note in Acts 3 that Peter's
sermon continues with the theme of the Millennial Kingdom, using the phrases
"Restitution of All Things" and "Times of Refreshing" (Acts 3:19-21).

The "Gospel of Grace" was revealed to the Apostle Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles.

popsthebuilder
October 22nd, 2017, 09:34 AM
The "Gospel of the Kingdom" had its beginning in the ministry of John the Baptist.
It called for "National Repentance" to prepare the way for the coming of Messiah
to set-up the Kingdom on earth (ie: Millennial Kingdom). Jesus ministry further
amplified the Law so that all Israel was in need of repentance. This
"Gospel of the Kingdom" will once again be preached in Israel, after the departure
of the "Church" (ie: Body of Christ), and also during the Tribulation, preparing
the way for the return of Messiah to the earth. Note in Acts 3 that Peter's
sermon continues with the theme of the Millennial Kingdom, using the phrases
"Restitution of All Things" and "Times of Refreshing" (Acts 3:19-21).

The "Gospel of Grace" was revealed to the Apostle Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles.Throughout all time change (repentance) has been spoken of. Change from a blind sinner to a knowing saint. Is all power and being made holy the same as no effect and staying the same? Is there still a division between Israel and the gentile, or are they made as one now?

JudgeRightly
October 22nd, 2017, 09:35 AM
Simply and easily; works pleasing to GOD are not the works of man done for the sight of man, but are the product of effectual Faith.

You could interpret what James is saying to mean that, even though that's not what he's saying.

James is saying that works are required for salvation, along with faith. Paul is saying that it is only faith that saves, and that if you do works, those works are as debt (Rom. 4:4).

Let me ask you, is James preaching grace in his book? Or is he preaching law?


Change is preached in our gospel by the high priest directly; from one state, to another. I can attest to this and too verify it as it has happened in my sight, my the Grace of GOD.

Could you explain what you mean by "change"?


Would you have us believe for one second that St. Paul spoke another gospel; one of reverent indifference and utter lack of change?

Not another one, just a different one.


What of all the verses that say we will be made righteous and holy and good and pleasing, and sons of GOD?

Could you reference those please? (Just book, chapter, and verse, no need to quote the verses, I can look them up.)


Don't you know that good has no fellowship with evil?

Of course.

Jerry Shugart
October 22nd, 2017, 09:36 AM
There is only one Gospel.

What gospel were the Apostles preaching at Luke 9:6 at a time when they did not even know the Lord Jesus was going to die (Lk.18:33-34)?

It was the gospel of the kingdom (Lk.9:2) and the heart and soul of that gospel is the fact that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. And those who believed were born of God the moment when they believed (1 Jn.5:1-5; Jn.20:30-31).

The Jews who did not believe that He is indeed the Christ, the Son of God, would die in their sins, as witnessed by the words of Jesus Christ:


"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins" (Jn.8:23-24).

Jerry Shugart
October 22nd, 2017, 09:45 AM
James is saying that works are required for salvation, along with faith.

I guess James just forgot to mention "works" when he told us how a person is born of God:


"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (Jas.1:18).

What James said in the next chapter must be reconciled with what he said in the first chapter. And what he wrote in the first chapter matches exactly what Peter said as to how a person is born again:


"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).

popsthebuilder
October 22nd, 2017, 10:08 AM
[QUOTE=JudgeRightly;5117730]You could interpret what James is saying to mean that, even though that's not what he's saying.

James is saying that works are required for salvation, along with faith. Paul is saying that it is only faith that saves, and that if you do works, those works are as debt (Rom. 4:4).

(works for the sight of man are debt to GOD)

Let me ask you, is James preaching grace in his book? Or is he preaching law?
(grace of course. Grace and faith are free gifts of the most precious worth; to cast them aside as if not given or worthless, to no effect is to not actually receive or believe.)



Could you explain what you mean by "change"?
(change from a heathen to a believer) there is a great difference.)


Not another one, just a different one.

(we know a different gospel is a sign of misdirection.)



Could you reference those please? (Just book, chapter, and verse, no need to quote the verses, I can look them up.)

(you are more versed than I; I will briefly give a few, but I will show them, and not only reference them, for the sake of any who find it too troublesome to seek out the truth themselves.)

Hebrews 6: 4. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5. And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6. If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8. But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. 9. But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. 10. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. 11. And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end: 12. That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

1 Timothy 1: 3. As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4. Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. 5. Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: 6. From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; 7. Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. 8. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9. Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10. For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11. According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust. 12. And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 13. Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 15. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 17. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. 18. This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare; 19. Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

Ephesians 3: 1. For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2. If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to youward: 3. How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4. Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5. Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6. That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7. Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8. Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9. And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10. To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11. According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 12. In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. 13. Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory. 14. For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15. Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16. That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17. That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18. May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19. And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. 20. Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21. Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Romans 5: 16. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21. That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6: 1. What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2. God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7. For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9. Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17. But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 19. I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 1: 24. But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 26. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27. But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 29. That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31. That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5: 1. For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3. If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5. Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6. Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 8. We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. 12. For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart. 13. For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause. 14. For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15. And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. 16. Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 17. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19. To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

(surely you can see from the verses above that we as believers are changed.)






(sorry for mixing your words with mine)

jamie
October 22nd, 2017, 11:33 AM
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,not of works, lest anyone should boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians2:8-9&version=NKJV

Paul says "you have been saved through faith . . . not by works."


Works prior to salvation do not save anyone.

Each person is saved by grace and then rewarded for their works.

"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works" (Ephesians 2:10)

Christ works through us for good works and we are rewarded for our compliance.

We are not saved by our works, rather we are created in Christ for his works.

jamie
October 22nd, 2017, 11:41 AM
The "Gospel of the Kingdom" had its beginning in the ministry of John the Baptist.
It called for "National Repentance" to prepare the way for the coming of Messiah
to set-up the Kingdom on earth (ie: Millennial Kingdom). Jesus ministry further
amplified the Law so that all Israel was in need of repentance. This
"Gospel of the Kingdom" will once again be preached in Israel, after the departure
of the "Church" (ie: Body of Christ), and also during the Tribulation, preparing
the way for the return of Messiah to the earth. Note in Acts 3 that Peter's
sermon continues with the theme of the Millennial Kingdom, using the phrases
"Restitution of All Things" and "Times of Refreshing" (Acts 3:19-21).

The "Gospel of Grace" was revealed to the Apostle Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles.


Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel.

Paul's message to the children of Israel was Christ's explanation of the OT scriptures.

Paul stayed on scripture, nothing added.

popsthebuilder
October 29th, 2017, 09:08 AM
2 Timothy 3: 1. This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3. Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4. Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5. Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7. Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. 10. But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11. Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12. Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15. And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17. That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

17. That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

God's Truth
October 29th, 2017, 10:03 AM
There is only one Gospel. It is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Jesus did not preach it. He left that up to the apostles.

I can hardly believe that you said Jesus did not teach it.

Jesus' words are Spirit and life.

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life.


Jesus taught how to get in him, how to be saved and have eternal life.

God's Truth
October 29th, 2017, 10:06 AM
Pops, would you agree that many of the conflicts that divide the Christian Church today, including baptism, eternal security, "faith" vs "works + faith", all have both sides of their arguments rooted in differing scriptures?

(For example, James 2:24 vs Romans 4:5, Romans 8:37-39 vs 2 Peter 2:20-21, etc.)

In other words, are you aware that there are apparent conflicts between different scripture verses within the Bible?

You are confused about what works do save and what works do not save.

The works of the law that used to clean are the ceremonial/purification works.

You don't understand that.

Those works no longer save, they do nothing now for what saves, he cleans the sins you repent of doing.

Faith that Jesus' blood is what cleans now.

That does not mean no one has to obey anything anymore that God says.

It means we don't have to get circumcised, observe special days and sacrifice animals.

God's Truth
October 29th, 2017, 10:17 AM
I agree, there are no contradictions. My question, however, is not "are there contradictions," my question is "do some verses seem to contradict on the surface?"



Again, my question is not "do they contradict" but "does it seem like they contradict, at least on the surface.



We will focus on the Bible as a whole, including the words spoken by Jesus and Paul.

You make contradictions to the Bible.

There is no other gospel.

There has always been only one way, and it is that we believe and obey God.

Satan didn't believe AND obey God, neither did the angels who followed him.

Adam and Eve did not believe AND obey God, neither did their son Cain.

All the people who were drowned did not believe and obey.

We always have to believe AND, AND...AND obey.

Faith alone is dead and does not save anyone.

Paul did not come and do away with God as we know Him.

Paul is misunderstood because he is speaking of no works, meaning no ceremonial works.

Peter says the unstable and unlearned think that Paul was saying only believe and not obey; then, Peter warns us to obey.

James says the foolish think that we only have to have faith and not obey.

See all of Chapter 3 in 2 Peter. After Peter says the unstable and unlearned misunderstand Paul, as saying we only have to believe---Peter WARNS us to OBEY.

See James 2:14, 17, 20, 22, and 24.

James says people are foolish for thinking we only have to believe. He says faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.

Again, people misunderstand Paul, they think he is saying to just have faith without obedience and then miraculous things will happen to you. NONSENSE.

Paul is speaking about the ceremonial works no longer saving.

The ceremonial works were the works that the people had to do for over 1,600 years, but when Jesus came, he did the cleaning and justification.

We still have to OBEY, we just don't have to get circumcised.

God's Truth
October 29th, 2017, 10:27 AM
The old ceremonial/purification works said that people must be cut off and or put to death for not doing the ceremonial/purification works.

However, Jesus cleans us now and the sins committed in the past does not mean one must be cut off and or put to death when they sinned certain sins. Jesus taught that anyone who repents to him of their sins can be forgiven.

We find mercy and forgiveness in the NEW LAW/NEW COVENANT that Jesus preached! Unlike what Robert Pate preaches when he says Jesus didn't preach the new gospel. AND, UNLIKE what all the faith alone people say, for they say Jesus did NOT come with grace. How can they say such a thing? Jesus forgave people without the shedding of blood of an animal. Jesus forgave people without them having to do a special external washing. Jesus didn't say people should be stoned to death. What are you doing? Why are you preaching against Jesus?

Why are you going against Jesus and fighting the truth?

turbosixx
October 29th, 2017, 04:07 PM
James is saying that works are required for salvation, along with faith. Paul is saying that it is only faith that saves, and that if you do works, those works are as debt (Rom. 4:4).


I would suggest to you that Paul and James are talking about two different types of works. The key is the works Paul is talking about.

God's Truth
October 29th, 2017, 05:26 PM
If someone wants to be saved, and they hear from a faith alone preacher that all they have to do is believe and do nothing else, then that person can get a false feeling of salvation.

This kind of saving must be accompanied with a 'talking oneself into' faith and assurance.

Just believe, just believe, surrender to it, just believe and do nothing, it doesn't have to do with anything you do except believe....that kind of preaching doesn't cut it for those who really want to KNOW God.

There are those who are told to just believe and they do and that is all they got.

It is hard to explain it to those who are satisfied with that type of gospel because they do not seem to understand at all the intimate power deep within when they do what Jesus says. The faith alone believers need others, many others, to keep their spirits up and in the faith alone doctrine.

The BIBLE tells us that the only way to KNOW GOD is to obey Him.

If faith alone believers do obey some things Paul preaches after their faith alone, they still go against the teachings of Jesus when he walked the earth being for EVERYONE. So I don't know how a faith alone preacher can feel right about themselves when they do that. How can anyone go against the Spirit and life given in the words taught by Jesus?

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life.

So then, faith alone also preaches against Jesus teachings, even if they claim they have much faith, even when they claim they are obedient to God after their claimed salvation.

This is my deep beliefs about it and welcome a discussion.

glorydaz
October 29th, 2017, 07:21 PM
I can hardly believe that you said Jesus did not teach it.

Jesus taught how to get in him, how to be saved and have eternal life.


You are confused about what works do save and what works do not save.

You don't understand that.



You make contradictions to the Bible.

We always have to believe AND, AND...AND obey.

Faith alone is dead and does not save anyone.



James says people are foolish for thinking we only have to believe. He says faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.

Again, people misunderstand Paul, they think he is saying to just have faith without obedience and then miraculous things will happen to you. NONSENSE.




If someone wants to be saved, and they hear from a faith alone preacher that all they have to do is believe and do nothing else, then that person can get a false feeling of salvation.


This is my deep beliefs about it and welcome a discussion.

The :troll: has arrived. Will anyone get a word in edgewise now?

Inquiring minds want to know. :think:

God's Truth
October 29th, 2017, 07:25 PM
The :troll: has arrived. Will anyone get a word in edgewise now?

Inquiring minds want to know. :think:

I am glad to see that you are copying and posting things that I have said.

jsanford108
October 29th, 2017, 07:33 PM
I think that this is a very good and civil discussion, pops and Judge.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

JudgeRightly
October 29th, 2017, 10:11 PM
I apologize for my absence in this thread as of late. On top of the fact that I have been busy with work, my phone has stopped sending me notifications (yet again) about new posts to threads I am subscribed to, this being one of them.

I will respond, though it may be a few more days before I can sit down and reply. I ask only for your patience and understanding. Thanks.

popsthebuilder
October 30th, 2017, 06:13 AM
I apologize for my absence in this thread as of late. On top of the fact that I have been busy with work, my phone has stopped sending me notifications (yet again) about new posts to threads I am subscribed to, this being one of them.

I will respond, though it may be a few more days before I can sit down and reply. I ask only for your patience and understanding. Thanks.We will continue by the will and time of GOD.

practicing patience never hurt anyone.

popsthebuilder
October 30th, 2017, 12:28 PM
1 Peter 2: 24. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Bright Raven
October 30th, 2017, 02:29 PM
Galatians 1:11-12New International Version (NIV)

Paul Called by God
11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

God's Truth
October 31st, 2017, 07:18 AM
Galatians 1:11-12New International Version (NIV)

Paul Called by God
11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

All apostles were taught by Jesus.

Right Divider
October 31st, 2017, 08:03 AM
All apostles were taught by Jesus.
But ONE received NEW information that was NOT made known before. Peter acknowledged this in 2nd Peter 3:15-16


2Pet 3:15-16 (AKJV/PCE)

(3:15) And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (3:16) As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

NOTE CAREFULLY (since you usually don't) that Peter says "according to the wisdom given to HIM" and not US.

Bright Raven
October 31st, 2017, 10:46 AM
All apostles were taught by Jesus.That is not what the thread title implies and is why I quoted the verse.

God's Truth
October 31st, 2017, 10:59 AM
But ONE received NEW information that was NOT made known before. Peter acknowledged this in 2nd Peter 3:15-16


2Pet 3:15-16 (AKJV/PCE)

(3:15) And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (3:16) As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

NOTE CAREFULLY (since you usually don't) that Peter says "according to the wisdom given to HIM" and not US.

Peter said that because he was not there with Paul and Peter ALREADY HAD THE WISDOM.

steko
October 31st, 2017, 11:03 AM
Peter said that because he was not there with Paul and Peter ALREADY HAD THE WISDOM.

From what point and onward did Peter have all the facts?

Right Divider
October 31st, 2017, 11:04 AM
Peter said that because he was not there with Paul and Peter ALREADY HAD THE WISDOM.
Always twisting the scripture to fit your need to pervert it.

God's Truth
October 31st, 2017, 11:39 AM
From what point and onward did Peter have all the facts?

Peter was taught the truth while Jesus walked the earth, and after Jesus ascended.

Right Divider
October 31st, 2017, 11:53 AM
Peter was taught the truth while Jesus walked the earth, and after Jesus ascended.
More vague speculations on your part.

When did the RISEN and ASCENDED LORD Jesus Christ contact Peter?

popsthebuilder
October 31st, 2017, 07:03 PM
But ONE received NEW information that was NOT made known before. Peter acknowledged this in 2nd Peter 3:15-16


2Pet 3:15-16 (AKJV/PCE)

(3:15) And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (3:16) As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

NOTE CAREFULLY (since you usually don't) that Peter says "according to the wisdom given to HIM" and not US.Note the repetition of the word "also" within those verses.

popsthebuilder
October 31st, 2017, 07:06 PM
From what point and onward did Peter have all the facts?When did St. Paul claim complete and utter wisdom, knowledge, and understanding?

God's Truth
October 31st, 2017, 07:13 PM
More vague speculations on your part.

When did the RISEN and ASCENDED LORD Jesus Christ contact Peter?

Jesus taught Peter when he walked the earth, and then he taught him after he died and rose again.

I can hardly believe you don't know that.

Pretty creepy and strange for you to think Peter had no idea about Paul coming in the future and teaching ANOTHER gospel to EVERYONE.

popsthebuilder
October 31st, 2017, 09:05 PM
1 Timothy 5: 25. Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid. -



(this is the end of the discussion as far as I am concerned. Within context it is even better.)

(I look forward to anyone's rebuttal.

peace)

glorydaz
October 31st, 2017, 09:40 PM
Peter said that because he was not there with Paul and Peter ALREADY HAD THE WISDOM.

Made up. Stop trying to make the Bible say what you assume it says.

glorydaz
October 31st, 2017, 09:49 PM
Jesus taught Peter when he walked the earth, and then he taught him after he died and rose again.

I can hardly believe you don't know that.

Pretty creepy and strange for you to think Peter had no idea about Paul coming in the future and teaching ANOTHER gospel to EVERYONE.

Pretty "creepy and strange" for you not to notice how Peter was in the dark about Paul's Gospel.


Gal. 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

steko
October 31st, 2017, 10:56 PM
When did St. Paul claim complete and utter wisdom, knowledge, and understanding?

He didn't, but that's beside the point.

God's Truth
October 31st, 2017, 11:01 PM
Pretty "creepy and strange" for you not to notice how Peter was in the dark about Paul's Gospel.


Gal. 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

How do you EVER get that he was in the dark about it?

Unbelievable.

Paul says that Peter used to eat with Gentiles and now because he is afraid of the Jews he does not anymore.

In following the old law, the Jews could not associate with Gentiles because they were unclean people, they were not circumcised, they did not do the purification/ceremonial works.

The New Testament Jesus' blood cleans all and circumcision of the flesh is worthless.

glorydaz
October 31st, 2017, 11:12 PM
How do you EVER get that he was in the dark about it?

Unbelievable.

Paul says that Peter used to eat with Gentiles and now because he is afraid of the Jews he does not anymore.

In following the old law, the Jews could not associate with Gentiles because they were unclean people, they were not circumcised, they did not do the purification/ceremonial works.

The New Testament Jesus' blood cleans all and circumcision of the flesh is worthless.

I can't believe you can't understand what Paul is saying.


Gal. 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. 14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

But, I don't know why I'm surprised. You always read what you want to into whatever is written.

God's Truth
October 31st, 2017, 11:14 PM
I can't believe you can't understand what Paul is saying.


Gal. 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. 14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

But, I don't know why I'm surprised. You always read what you want to into whatever is written.

Peter knew the good news, the one and only gospel that saves! Just read what Paul says, he says Peter knows!

Peter knows that even though they were born Jews, only Jesus' blood justifies and not the purification works.

Galatians 2:14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter wbefore them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, 7why do you compel Gentiles to live as 8Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not 9justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.


DID YOU READ THAT?

That is the gospel and Paul says the Jews know it.

glorydaz
October 31st, 2017, 11:21 PM
How do you EVER get that he was in the dark about it?

Unbelievable.

Paul says that Peter used to eat with Gentiles and now because he is afraid of the Jews he does not anymore.

In following the old law, the Jews could not associate with Gentiles because they were unclean people, they were not circumcised, they did not do the purification/ceremonial works.

The New Testament Jesus' blood cleans all and circumcision of the flesh is worthless.

Peter obviously did not understand that his hypocrisy frustrated the GRACE OF GOD. Paul was still having to school him on this issue of salvation by grace.


Gal. 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Which, I might add, you need some schooling on yourself. :chuckle:

God's Truth
October 31st, 2017, 11:24 PM
Peter obviously did not understand that his hypocrisy frustrated the GRACE OF GOD. Paul was still having to school him on this issue of salvation by grace.


Gal. 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Which, I might add, you need some schooling on yourself. :chuckle:

Peter was afraid that the Jews would have him imprisoned, beat, and killed.

There was another time he was afraid of the Jews, it was when he denied Jesus three times.

You are so wrong when you preach the Apostle to the Lamb did not know the one and only gospel that saves.

Chuckle all you want, but it is the Truth that you are doing that to.

glorydaz
October 31st, 2017, 11:50 PM
Peter was afraid that the Jews would have him imprisoned, beat, and killed.

There was another time he was afraid of the Jews, it was when he denied Jesus three times.

You are so wrong when you preach the Apostle to the Lamb did not know the one and only gospel that saves.

Chuckle all you want, but it is the Truth that you are doing that to.

What did Paul mean by this...."why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Of course there isn't the smallest chance YOU could ever be wrong about something. :chuckle:

God's Truth
October 31st, 2017, 11:54 PM
What did Paul mean by this...."why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Of course there isn't the smallest chance YOU could ever be wrong about something. :chuckle:

He WAS AFRAID OF THE JEWS so he ACTED out of LINE with the GOSPEL.

glorydaz
November 1st, 2017, 12:16 AM
He WAS AFRAID OF THE JEWS so he ACTED out of LINE with the GOSPEL.

You didn't answer my question. I'm waiting.....

"why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

God's Truth
November 1st, 2017, 12:20 AM
You didn't answer my question. I'm waiting.....

"why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Because he was AFRAID of the Jews who believed and enforced the old law.

glorydaz
November 1st, 2017, 12:24 AM
Because he was AFRAID of the Jews who believed and enforced the old law.

That doesn't explain Paul's rebuke of Peter, "why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?"

God's Truth
November 1st, 2017, 12:31 AM
That doesn't explain Paul's rebuke of Peter, "why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?"

Of course it explains it, and Paul even says it.

glorydaz
November 1st, 2017, 12:40 AM
Of course it explains it, and Paul even says it.

If you can't even address the scripture you're given, there is not point in posting to you at all.

Answer the question or sit down, and prove you're just a fool with a thirst for attention.

God's Truth
November 1st, 2017, 12:42 AM
If you can't even address the scripture you're given, there is not point in posting to you at all.

Answer the question or sit down, and prove you're just a fool with a thirst for attention.

Spam.

glorydaz
November 1st, 2017, 12:56 AM
Spam.

Can't answer, can ya? :rotfl:

God's Truth
November 1st, 2017, 01:00 AM
Can't answer, can ya? :rotfl:

Paul says the Jews know a man is justified by faith in Jesus. Paul says that after he says Peter was acting out of line with the truth. The truth is only one gospel saves. Peter was afraid of the Jews because they would have him killed, so he acted out of line with the truth.

Paul stopped preaching circumcision and that is why he was getting put in jail and beat.

Galatians 5:11 Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished.

popsthebuilder
November 1st, 2017, 05:46 AM
He didn't, but that's beside the point.How is that beside the point? Where you not comparing St. Peter to St. Paul?

From what point and onward did Peter have all the facts?

God's Truth
November 1st, 2017, 08:08 AM
How is that beside the point? Where you not comparing St. Peter to St. Paul?

From what point and onward did Peter have all the facts?

They don't even understand the simple truth that Peter knew the same one and only gospel of faith in Jesus to justify and save, but that Peter was afraid of the Jews who rejected Jesus as the fulfillment of the old law. It destroys madists' doctrines. This is an important topic about Peter knowing the one and only gospel. It is the thread topic and it can destroy false doctrines from madists.

God's Truth
November 1st, 2017, 08:11 AM
How is that beside the point? Where you not comparing St. Peter to St. Paul?

From what point and onward did Peter have all the facts?

Peter and Paul had everything they, and we needed for eternal life.

The apostles from the New Testament received all the truth we need to guide us to eternal life. All we need to guide us to eternal life is written down in the Scriptures: John 16:13; 2 Peter 1:3; Acts 20:20, 27; Matthew 28:20; I Corinthians 14:37; 2 Timothy 3:16, 17.

Right Divider
November 1st, 2017, 08:37 AM
Jesus taught Peter when he walked the earth, and then he taught him after he died and rose again.

I can hardly believe you don't know that.

I can hardly beleive that you don't know that Jesus was teaching them the gospel of the kingdom during BOTH of those times and NOT the gospel of the grace of God later given to Paul.

Once AGAIN, when did the RISEN and ASCENDED LORD Jesus Christ contact Peter?


Pretty creepy and strange for you to think Peter had no idea about Paul coming in the future and teaching ANOTHER gospel to EVERYONE.
Pretty creepy and strange that you do not understand the manifold wisdom of God.

God's Truth
November 1st, 2017, 08:58 AM
I can hardly beleive that you don't know that Jesus was teaching them the gospel of the kingdom during BOTH of those times and NOT the gospel of the grace of God later given to Paul.

Once AGAIN, when did the RISEN and ASCENDED LORD Jesus Christ contact Peter?


Pretty creepy and strange that you do not understand the manifold wisdom of God.

Jesus IS the good news. Jesus is full of grace and came with grace. Jesus taught the guidelines for the New Covenant, the New Testament.

Right Divider
November 1st, 2017, 09:15 AM
Jesus IS the good news.

Jesus has more than one good news.


Jesus is full of grace and came with grace. Jesus taught the guidelines for the New Covenant, the New Testament.
More unbiblical babbling.

God's Truth
November 1st, 2017, 09:19 AM
Jesus has more than one good news.


More unbiblical babbling.

Those are scriptures and I have given them all to you before.

popsthebuilder
November 1st, 2017, 10:08 AM
Peter and Paul had everything they, and we needed for eternal life.

The apostles from the New Testament received all the truth we need to guide us to eternal life. All we need to guide us to eternal life is written down in the Scriptures: John 16:13; 2 Peter 1:3; Acts 20:20, 27; Matthew 28:20; I Corinthians 14:37; 2 Timothy 3:16, 17.A further more complete truth is spoken of.

There is only One gospel. This has always been the case.

To believe is to live according to what one believes.

It's that simple, and singular in message; if one actually believes in the Way and abides by the Spirit then they aren't a hypocrite or an infidel, but are made like sons of GOD.

popsthebuilder
November 1st, 2017, 12:14 PM
2 Corinthians 6: 16. And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

2 Corinthians 7: 1. Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2. Receive us; we have wronged no man, we have corrupted no man, we have defrauded no man. 10. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. 15. And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him. 16. I rejoice therefore that I have confidence in you in all things.

God's Truth
November 1st, 2017, 05:46 PM
A further more complete truth is spoken of.

There is only One gospel. This has always been the case.

To believe is to live according to what one believes.

It's that simple, and singular in message; if one actually believes in the Way and abides by the Spirit then they aren't a hypocrite or an infidel, but are made like sons of GOD.

It has always been about believing and obeying God since the beginning of time.

What we have to do since Jesus is believe and obey Jesus' teachings.

The faith alone crowd claim Jesus told Paul to teach another gospel of believe but don't obey to get saved.

Who but the devil would be behind such a grand scheme as condemning someone for obeying anything that Jesus taught? The madists and many other denominations like theirs go against me and call me condemned because I obeyed Jesus to get saved and because I preach obedience.

God's Truth
November 2nd, 2017, 01:12 AM
If Paul taught a different gospel than the one Jesus preached, then why did Paul preach the Old Testament so much to the Gentiles?

See 2 Corinthians 2:16, Numbers 15:3.

Romans 1:17, Habakkuk 2:4.

There are approximately 106 scriptures where Paul quotes the OLD TESTAMENT TO GENTILES, and maybe more.

These madists have said repeatedly that it is not to us.

Not to us?!

It is to us since Jesus grafted the Gentiles in.

Paul speaks the Old Testament to GENTILES.

God's Truth
November 2nd, 2017, 01:29 AM
I still have not heard from any madist on what it is that people misunderstand about Paul.

I know what it is, people misunderstand Paul and think he is saying to have faith and do nothing.

Peter warns us against that.

See all of 2 Peter 3.

Zeke
November 2nd, 2017, 09:22 AM
Galatians 3:8 is the same good news Paul was shown to teach concerning the spirit that never changes concerning the kingdom within man wrongly applied to history Galatians 4:24, 2 Cor 3:6 instead of the temple made without hands 1Cor 3:16 awakened through inner revelation Galatians 1:12, John 1:13, Luke 17:20-21 a task the letter never could do when taken literally as we see among those who search them for life become dead men walking in the trap of time fearing a dead letter god made in their image Galatians 4:25 the kingdom is always at hand now! but the first born of the flesh Matt 11:11 keeps searching outside for something not observable to flesh and blood Matt 11:3, Acts 17:24, Colossians 1:27, but few really except that eternal light they came into this world with John 1:9 blinded by the search of die/dead vision Isaiah 51:17 that lord is your mind 1John 4:18, mid acts preaches the inward mystery yet denies it with a time stamped kingdom coming in the allegorical future missing the message John 5:39 that is ever present to all when the stories become one inward path John 5:40, not future event in this world that Christ/spirit taught wasn't of this OUTWARD world.

Right Divider
November 2nd, 2017, 07:27 PM
I still have not heard from any madist on what it is that people misunderstand about Paul.

I know what it is, people misunderstand Paul and think he is saying to have faith and do nothing.

Peter warns us against that.

See all of 2 Peter 3.
I know that this will be impossible for you to understand, but I will post it for the benefit of others.

2Pet 3:1 (AKJV/PCE)

(3:1) This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

This is Peters second epistle to YOU. Who is the YOU? That's pretty simple:

1Pet 1:1 (AKJV/PCE)

(1:1) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, [B]to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,


Peter is writing to the STRANGERS scattered throughout GENTILE lands. These are the SAME people that James writes to:

Jas 1:1 (AKJV/PCE)

(1:1) James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.


Since Peter and James are part of the TWELVE apostles that will judge the TWELVE tribes of Israel, it's easy to understand the nature of their DOCTRINE. It's NOT the same DOCTRINE that the RISEN and ASCENDED LORD Jesus Christ appeared and gave to the apostle of the gentiles, Paul.

It's all really easy to understand; but you don't.

God's Truth
November 2nd, 2017, 07:29 PM
I know that this will be impossible for you to understand, but I will post it for the benefit of others.


2Pet 3:1 (AKJV/PCE)

(3:1) This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

This is Peters second epistle to YOU. Who is the YOU? That's pretty simple:


1Pet 1:1 (AKJV/PCE)

(1:1) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, [B]to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,


Peter is writing to the STRANGERS scattered throughout GENTILES lands. These are the SAME people that James writes to:


Jas 1:1 (AKJV/PCE)

(1:1) James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.


Since Peter and James are part of the TWELVE apostles that will judge the TWELVE tribes of Israel, it's easy to understand the nature of their DOCTRINE. It's NOT the same DOCTRINE that the RISEN and ASCENDED LORD Jesus Christ appeared and gave to the apostle of the gentiles, Paul.

It's all really easy to understand; but you don't.

Peter spoke and wrote to the Jews, but it is for all.

Why do you limit Jesus God's Word?

Right Divider
November 2nd, 2017, 07:31 PM
Peter spoke and wrote to the Jews, but it is for all.

Why do you limit Jesus God's Word?
I don't... I simply understand it the way that it is written. Unfortunately it's beyond your comprehension.

God's Truth
November 2nd, 2017, 07:35 PM
I don't... I simply understand it the way that it is written. Unfortunately it's beyond your comprehension.

Nonsense.

Peter wrote the same gospel as Paul did but Peter wrote it initially to the Jews.

If you and I were given the same message and told that you should give it to your family and I to mine---does that make it two different gospels? No, absolutely not.

Could I or another one of my family members then read and learn and obey what you wrote? Of course.

God's Truth
November 2nd, 2017, 07:38 PM
So much false beliefs and teachings. So sad that people will not listen to reason.

Right Divider
November 2nd, 2017, 07:39 PM
Nonsense.

Peter wrote the same gospel as Paul did but Peter wrote it initially to the Jews.

If you and I were given the same message and told that you should give it to your family and I to mine---does that make it two different gospels? No, absolutely not.

Could I or another one of my family members then read and learn and obey what you wrote? Of course.
:baby:

God's Truth
November 2nd, 2017, 07:42 PM
:baby:

You can't be reasoned with. God tells us that is what happens with many.

Right Divider
November 2nd, 2017, 07:56 PM
You can't be reasoned with. God tells us that is what happens with many.
Nay poser... you are the unreasoning one.

God's Truth
November 5th, 2017, 01:26 PM
Nay poser... you are the unreasoning one.

You are the one who can't be reasoned with. You say that is not to us that there too is not for us. The Bible says it is all to us.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.


Let me know when you can start be reasoned with all scripture.