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Robert Pate
July 16th, 2017, 10:58 AM
The Bible is a spiritual book that was written by men that were indwelt by the Holy Spirit. The trouble starts when people that are not indwelt with the Holy Spirit come on the Forum and try to figure out what the bible is saying through their own natural reasoning. They are not Christians, but they think that they are. A Christian is one that has come to Christ as a repentant sinner to be saved by him. He is not trusting in any kind of religion, doctrine or works to save him. He is trusting in Christ and in Christ alone to save him. It is to these that God imparts his Holy Spirit. All of the rest are in their natural state.

"Now we have received, not the Spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God: that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things we speak not in the words which man's wisdom teaches: comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, BECAUSE THEY ARE SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED" 1 Corinthians 2:12-14.

The Christian lives in two worlds, the world of the flesh and the world of the Spirit. He is both a sinner and a saint at the same time. He is in Adam and in Christ at the same time. He has the nature of Adam, who is a sinner and the nature of Christ who was without sin. These two natures are at odds with each other. Paul wrote about this in the seventh chapter of Romans.

""Now it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is in my flesh) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would do I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me" Romans 7:17-19.

What Paul is telling us here is that the Christian life is a struggle. The Spirit wants to do good, but the flesh wants to do evil. There is no solution to this problem, it will continue until death. During the 70's there were numerous seminars on how to overcome indwelling sin, but none of them worked.

THE SPIRITUAL ASPECT OF THE GOSPEL.

In the Gospel we are complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. The condition for receiving the Holy Spirit is that God must see you as perfect and complete in his Son Jesus Christ. Paul said,

"That I might be found in him, not having my own righteousness which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ; the righteousness which is of God by faith" Philippians 3:9.

The righteousness that is of God by faith, is the righteousness that is only by faith. In the New Testament faith in Jesus Christ counts for righteousness. Not works or obedience, just faith, Romans 4:5. We are justified by faith and by faith alone. If you add anything to faith it is no longer by faith alone. It is by faith alone because it is by Christ alone, Romans 3:26. We are saved and MADE righteous by the action of another, Jesus Christ. Jesus in our name and on our behalf offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his holy law, Matthew 5:18. It was his life that was lived for our justification.

That was not enough. Something had to be done about our sins and the sins of the whole world. If Jesus did not atone for every sin in the whole world then Jesus is not Lord. The reason that God accepted Jesus back into heaven is because all sin had been atoned for. God was well pleased with his Son Jesus Christ and seated him at his own right hand, a place of honor and respect and then made Jesus, "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been abolished, Colossians 2:15. It is only because all sin has been atoned for that we can be saved. So that now, those that do nothing more than call upon the name of the Lord can be saved, Romans 10:13.

fishrovmen
July 16th, 2017, 12:45 PM
Has your theology always been this bad, or has it gotten much worse?

Robert Pate
July 16th, 2017, 01:40 PM
Has your theology always been this bad, or has it gotten much worse?

There is nothing wrong with my theology because it is according to the Bible. Why is it that you never tell us what you believe? What is your theology? Can it be that you don't know what you believe?

fishrovmen
July 16th, 2017, 02:04 PM
There is nothing wrong with my theology because it is according to the Bible. Why is it that you never tell us what you believe? What is your theology? Can it be that you don't know what you believe?

Because you don't understand it and you habitually misrepresent and bear false witness about the things you don't understand.

Robert Pate
July 16th, 2017, 02:10 PM
Because you don't understand it and you habitually misrepresent and bear false witness about the things you don't understand.

That is your opinion which is not worth much because you have embraced Calvinism.

fishrovmen
July 16th, 2017, 02:12 PM
That is your opinion which is not worth much because you have embraced Calvinism.

As usual, you never fail to prove my point. ��

Robert Pate
July 16th, 2017, 03:22 PM
As usual, you never fail to prove my point. ��

Your point is that Calvinism is the way, the truth and the life and no one can come to the Father but by John Calvin.

fishrovmen
July 16th, 2017, 05:17 PM
Your point is that Calvinism is the way, the truth and the life and no one can come to the Father but by John Calvin.

Refer back to posts #4 and #6

Robert Pate
July 16th, 2017, 08:18 PM
Refer back to posts #4 and #6

Why don't you post a 2 or 3 hundred word article about what you believe, so that we can pick it apart?

Epoisses
July 16th, 2017, 08:47 PM
Calvinists are the theological philosophers of our day who speculate and postulate on things too high for them to know. The truth is that God is in control of everything but he controls no one meaning that God has a plan for every life but our own foolish decisions often send us down detours to our own pain and demise. God does not force himself on sinners like the blind Calvinist surmises. He presents his goodness and justice and forgiveness and those who come to the water of life are cured while those who turn up their noses die in their pride and arrogance.

Robert Pate
July 17th, 2017, 07:55 AM
Calvinists are the theological philosophers of our day who speculate and postulate on things too high for them to know. The truth is that God is in control of everything but he controls no one meaning that God has a plan for every life but our own foolish decisions often send us down detours to our own pain and demise. God does not force himself on sinners like the blind Calvinist surmises. He presents his goodness and justice and forgiveness and those who come to the water of life are cured while those who turn up their noses die in their pride and arrogance.

Right.

They can't believe the Gospel, so they look for another way to be saved and wind up with Calvinism.

jamie
July 17th, 2017, 08:08 AM
Right.

They can't believe the Gospel, so they look for another way to be saved and wind up with Calvinism.


Yes, they claim we have no part in salvation the same as you.

chrysostom
July 17th, 2017, 08:11 AM
Yes, they claim we have no part in salvation the same as you.

oh yes

Robert Pate
July 17th, 2017, 08:16 AM
oh yes

Salvation is available to those who do nothing more than call on Christ to save them. Unfortunately this is just to simple for some religious people, they want to participate in their own salvation by their works.

jamie
July 17th, 2017, 08:51 AM
Salvation is available to those who do nothing more than call on Christ to save them.


You missed a step.

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him" (John 6:44)

Unless the Father draws the person they can't get to Christ.

Robert Pate
July 19th, 2017, 12:20 PM
You missed a step.

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him" (John 6:44)

Unless the Father draws the person they can't get to Christ.

God is not unjust. The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ.

jamie
July 19th, 2017, 12:33 PM
God is not unjust. The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ.


You know better than that.

Robert Pate
July 20th, 2017, 09:50 AM
You know better than that.

"While it is said, Today if you hear his voice, harden not your heart, as in the provocation" Hebrews 3:15.

Have you hardened your heart and can no longer hear him?

beloved57
July 20th, 2017, 11:58 AM
God is not unjust. The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ.

False and invalid statement !

Robert Pate
July 20th, 2017, 01:50 PM
False and invalid statement !

For sure, you don't hear Spirit. You are a reprobate.

You have renounced Christ as your savior and are trusting in predestination.

beloved57
July 20th, 2017, 08:42 PM
For sure, you don't hear Spirit. You are a reprobate.

You have renounced Christ as your savior and are trusting in predestination.

You always make false and invalid statements !

Nanja
July 21st, 2017, 06:52 AM
You always make false and invalid statements !

Yep, just like his father John 8:44.

beloved57
July 21st, 2017, 07:13 AM
Yep, just like his father John 8:44.

Here is his lie:


God is not unjust. The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ.

Robert Pate
July 21st, 2017, 10:43 AM
Here is his lie:

You have hardened your heart and cannot hear the Spirit, Hebrews 3:15.

Nanja
July 21st, 2017, 02:14 PM
Here is his lie:


pate says:

God is not unjust. The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ.


You right, no scripture says that.

For all those outside of the Election of Grace, Jesus Christ is not their Saviour, and so they have been prepared for the second death Mat. 25:41; Rev. 21:8.

So they are prevented from receiving the things of the Spirit of God 1 Cor. 2:14. Their minds have been blinded by satan 2 Cor. 4:3-4.

Robert Pate
July 21st, 2017, 08:33 PM
pate says:



You right, no scripture says that.

For all those outside of the Election of Grace, Jesus Christ is not their Saviour, and so they have been prepared for the second death Mat. 25:41; Rev. 21:8.

So they are prevented from receiving the things of the Spirit of God 1 Cor. 2:14. Their minds have been blinded by satan 2 Cor. 4:3-4.

"Today if you will hear his voice, harden not your heart" Hebrews 3:15.

"Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if any man hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him" Revelation 3:20.

You have closed the door to Christ and have opened the door to John Calvin.

Nanja
July 22nd, 2017, 05:15 AM
"Today if you will hear his voice, harden not your heart" Hebrews 3:15.

Unless a person is Born of God, he's incapable of Hearing God's Voice / Words.


John 8:43, 47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.




"Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if any man hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him" Revelation 3:20.

Again, the spiritually dead can't hear His Voice which is Spiritual.

It's only Christ's Sheep abiding In Him, that hear His Voice.

John 10:14, 27

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Robert Pate
July 22nd, 2017, 07:56 AM
Unless a person is Born of God, he's incapable of Hearing God's Voice / Words.


John 8:43, 47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.



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Again, the spiritually dead can't hear His Voice which is Spiritual.

It's only Christ's Sheep abiding In Him, that hear His Voice.

John 10:14, 27

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


All that were saved in the New Testament were saved because thay heard and believed the Gospel.

God does not just zapp people with the Holy Spirit. You must hear and believe, if you did that you would not need Calvinism.

"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" which is the Gospel, Romans 10:17.

Nanja
July 22nd, 2017, 02:42 PM
All that were saved in the New Testament were saved because thay heard and believed the Gospel.

God does not just zapp people with the Holy Spirit. You must hear and believe, if you did that you would not need Calvinism.

"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" which is the Gospel, Romans 10:17.


Nanja

Unless a person is Born of God, he's incapable of Hearing God's Voice / Words.


John 8:43, 47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.


All God's Elect shall at some point in their lifetime be Born of the Spirit John 3:6; not by anything they do, but New Birth is received passively by the Power of God!

Rom. 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Robert Pate
July 22nd, 2017, 03:11 PM
Nanja



All God's Elect shall at some point in their lifetime be Born of the Spirit John 3:6; not by anything they do, but New Birth is received passively by the Power of God!

Rom. 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

You have been deceived by Satan into believing that you have been predestinated. If you were one of the elect you would honor Jesus by believing that he is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. And then to make things worse you believe that God damns people to hell for no reason before they are born. You do not have faith in God, nor do you have faith in Christ. I don't know why you think that you are a Christian.

Nanja
July 22nd, 2017, 03:33 PM
You have been deceived by Satan into believing that you have been predestinated. If you were one of the elect you would honor Jesus by believing that he is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. And then to make things worse you believe that God damns people to hell for no reason before they are born. You do not have faith in God, nor do you have faith in Christ. I don't know why you think that you are a Christian.

Your false witness, and hatred and denigration of the Truth of scripture over the years, bears witness to your spiritual blindness by satan.

2 Cor. 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Robert Pate
July 22nd, 2017, 03:40 PM
Your false witness, and hatred and denigration of the Truth of scripture over the years, bears witness to your spiritual blindness by satan.

2 Cor. 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

You condemn yourself with the scriptures that you quote.

You don't believe the Gospel. You don't believe that Jesus is the savior of the world. You deliberately call John a liar. How in the world do you think that you are a Christian?

Nanja
July 22nd, 2017, 05:00 PM
You condemn yourself with the scriptures that you quote.

You don't believe the Gospel. You don't believe that Jesus is the savior of the world. You deliberately call John a liar. How in the world do you think that you are a Christian?

You aren't capable of knowing what I Believe because you are spiritually dead.

Robert Pate
July 22nd, 2017, 05:02 PM
You aren't capable of knowing what I Believe because you are spiritually dead.

The fact remains that you believe God is a tyrant and that his Son Jesus Christ is a failure.

That is NOT saving faith.

Nanja
July 22nd, 2017, 05:08 PM
The fact remains that you believe God is a tyrant and that his Son Jesus Christ is a failure.


You are a liar just like your father John 8:44.

Robert Pate
July 22nd, 2017, 06:14 PM
You are a liar just like your father John 8:44.

You and B57 need to call on Christ to save you, Romans 10:13.

Nanja
July 22nd, 2017, 07:25 PM
You and B57 need to call on Christ to save you, Romans 10:13.

We were Saved before we ever called on Christ 2 Tim. 1:9!

Epoisses
July 22nd, 2017, 07:27 PM
We were Saved before we ever called on Christ 2 Tim. 1:9!

The whole world was saved 'in Christ' before the foundation of the world. The fountain of grace was opened in the garden of Eden or Adam would have been cut down by the wrath of God the moment he sinned.

Nanja
July 22nd, 2017, 07:41 PM
The whole world was saved 'in Christ' before the foundation of the world. The fountain of grace was opened in the garden of Eden or Adam would have been cut down by the wrath of God the moment he sinned.


The whole world of the Elect was Saved.

But the world of John 3:18, 36 was condemned already!

beloved57
July 22nd, 2017, 09:44 PM
The fact remains that you believe God is a tyrant and that his Son Jesus Christ is a failure.

That is NOT saving faith.
You believe that Christ death was a failure because you teach that sinners Christ died for are still lost!

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Robert Pate
July 23rd, 2017, 10:52 AM
You believe that Christ death was a failure because you teach that sinners Christ died for are still lost!

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All of the sins of the world have been atoned for, so that, "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

Those like yourself that are to proud to call on the name of the Lord will perish.

Robert Pate
July 23rd, 2017, 10:55 AM
We were Saved before we ever called on Christ 2 Tim. 1:9!

Why don't you admit it? You can't call on Christ to save you, you are to proud.

Ask Mr. Religion
July 23rd, 2017, 11:30 AM
All of the sins of the world have been atoned for..
No, Robert. The pactum salutis (https://www.monergism.com/topics/covenant-theology/covenant-redemption) could very well have accomplished what you claim, but we know from Scripture that the atonement was designed contrary to your view: hypothetical universalism (http://www.samstorms.com/enjoying-god-blog/post/hypothetical-universalism-and-the-theology-of-moise-amyraut).

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?126170-How-the-Gospel-Works&p=5068917&viewfull=1#post5068917

AMR

patrick jane
July 23rd, 2017, 11:34 AM
We were Saved before we ever called on Christ 2 Tim. 1:9!Yep, us means everybody, all men

beloved57
July 23rd, 2017, 11:39 AM
All of the sins of the world have been atoned for, so that, "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

Those like yourself that are to proud to call on the name of the Lord will perish.
False teaching. You teach that sinners Christ died for are still lost!

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Robert Pate
July 23rd, 2017, 11:41 AM
No, Robert. The pactum salutis (https://www.monergism.com/topics/covenant-theology/covenant-redemption) could very well have accomplished what you claim, but we know from Scripture that the atonement was designed contrary to your view: hypothetical universalism (http://www.samstorms.com/enjoying-god-blog/post/hypothetical-universalism-and-the-theology-of-moise-amyraut).

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?126170-How-the-Gospel-Works&p=5068917&viewfull=1#post5068917

AMR


There is a big problem in believing in a limited atonement. For one, it means that Jesus is a failure. For two, it means that Jesus is not Lord. For three, it means that those who embrace such a doctrine are lost, John 8:24.