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northwye
July 14th, 2017, 08:36 PM
Matthew 24: 1-7, The Establishment of the Identity of Christ and The Destruction of the Temple

Matthew 24: 1-7 says "And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? 4. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places."

Christ did not answer the first question of his disciples, which was when would the temple be destroyed. But much of Matthew 24 is an answer to their second question, what will be the signs of his second appearing and of the end of the world.

Daniel 9: 26 also predicts the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.. "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

The Messiah is said to be cut off, which refers to his death on the Cross.and the implication is that Christ's death on the Cross comes before the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. The people ol the prince that are said to come and destroy the city and the sanctuary are the Roman army under Titus.

Christ appeared, carried out his ministry, and was put to death on the Cross while the temple and the Old Covenant system was still in place in order to establish his identity as the Messiah in explicit or specific Old Testament prophecy, including Isaiah 53: 3-5. "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.",.

Isaiah 53: 3-5 was fulfilled in detail as well as other prophecies such as Micah 5: 2, "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

The Genealogy given in Matthew 1: 1-16 is important in establishing that Jesus Christ in the physical was a descendant from Abraham and David.

Luke .3: 23-38 also gives us the genealogy of Jesus Christ, back to Adam. The existence of the Old Covenant at the time of Christ's birth, ministry and death on the Cross helped to establish the identity of the Messiah.

Then, in 70 A.D. the Old Covenant system, which had been in existence from the beginning of the Messianic era at the death of Christ on the Cross to 70 A.D was given a deadly wound, when Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed.

There may or may not have been genealogical records in the temple that were destroyed in 70 A.D.with the destruction of the temple.

The genealogy of Christ was not lost but is given in Matthew 24: 1-7 and in Luke 3: 23-38.

Genesis 49: 10 is fulfilled in the birth, ministry and death on the Cross of Christ. "The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be."

"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant, 4. Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah." Psalm 89: 3-4

The "seed" of David in Psalm 89: 4 is his spiritual seed, as is the promise of the seed from Abraham also being his spiritual seed,.

"Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham." Galatians 3: 6-7

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect" Galatians 3: 16-17

"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3: 26-29

That which begins in the flesh becomes that which is spiritual in Christ with him in them in the Messianic era.

"Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?" Isaiah 29: 16

Isaiah 29: 16 points to the remaking of Old Covenant Israel in Jeremiah 18: 4-6, "And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it. 5. Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 6. O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel."

"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ." I Peter 2: 5

As Old Covenant Israel, in the flesh, becomes a spiritual house in the new Covenant of Jesus Christ, so individuals with Christ in them change from being in mortal physical bodies to being in immortal spiritual bodies.

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." I Corinthians 15: 44

"And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." I Corinthians 15: 49-53.

Epoisses
July 15th, 2017, 09:45 AM
Daniel 9 is a prophecy for the reconstruction and restoration of Jerusalem and the temple in the last days not the days of Daniel. His book was sealed up until the time of the end which simply means that all his prophecies apply to the time of the end.

northwye
July 15th, 2017, 11:24 AM
"Daniel 9 is a prophecy for the reconstruction and restoration of Jerusalem and the temple in the last days not the days of Daniel. His book was sealed up until the time of the end which simply means that all his prophecies apply to the time of the end.":

This statement could be an attempt to create an argument over the meaning of Daniel 12:4 - which goes on and on - involving the dialectic game within dialogue. But is is best to avoid quarrels involving the dialectic game. There is nothing about Christian Zionism and its postulate that God will in the future return to a dispensation in which some or most parts of the Old Covenant will be restored in post number 1 above. Focusing on the idea that God will return to some kind of Old Covenant dispensation in the future brings one form of church theology into dominance over New Testament scripture cited in post number 1, that is, Paul's doctrine on faith.

On TOL that argument would be thought to be between dispensationalism or Christian Zionism and Reformed Theology and Covenant Theology. Again, what is said above does not get into either church theology.

Epoisses
July 15th, 2017, 05:01 PM
This statement could be an attempt to create an argument over the meaning of Daniel 12:4 - which goes on and on - involving the dialectic game within dialogue. But is is best to avoid quarrels involving the dialectic game. There is nothing about Christian Zionism and its postulate that God will in the future return to a dispensation in which some or most parts of the Old Covenant will be restored in post number 1 above. Focusing on the idea that God will return to some kind of Old Covenant dispensation in the future brings one form of church theology into dominance over New Testament scripture cited in post number 1, that is, Paul's doctrine on faith.

God is not the one who will return to the former dispensation, the antichrist is. The law of Moses will be the law of the whole world. Grace will be abolished and anyone who preaches the gospel will be put to death. All those mega-church pastors who preach grace today will disown it and bow at the feet of the antichrist. All churches will be closed down and only the synagogues that teach Torah will be allowed to operate. Think it sounds crazy?!? Wait till he gets here with his legions of fallen angels.

beameup
July 15th, 2017, 09:06 PM
God is not the one who will return to the former dispensation, the antichrist is. The law of Moses will be the law of the whole world. Grace will be abolished and anyone who preaches the gospel will be put to death. All those mega-church pastors who preach grace today will disown it and bow at the feet of the antichrist. All churches will be closed down and only the synagogues that teach Torah will be allowed to operate. Think it sounds crazy?!? Wait till he gets here with his legions of fallen angels.

No, I think it sounds unscriptural:
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. - 2 Thessalonians 2:12
Sounds like a whole lot of sinning going on in the Tribulation.

Epoisses
July 16th, 2017, 07:11 AM
No, I think it sounds unscriptural:
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. - 2 Thessalonians 2:12
Sounds like a whole lot of sinning going on in the Tribulation.

You just quoted the verse that defends everything I said. If the antichrist is sitting in a rebuilt Jewish temple claiming to be God he is not going to be telling everyone to believe in Christ and the gospel! He will say believe in me and keep the Law. Law-keeping is Satanic and anyone who has ever gone down that path knows exactly what I'm talking about.

beameup
July 16th, 2017, 07:24 AM
You just quoted the verse that defends everything I said. If the antichrist is sitting in a rebuilt Jewish temple claiming to be God he is not going to be telling everyone to believe in Christ and the gospel! He will say believe in me and keep the Law. Law-keeping is Satanic and anyone who has ever gone down that path knows exactly what I'm talking about.

Israel will already have a Temple and be 100% keeping the Law prior to the False-Messiah coming to power.
The one thing that Jews reject is that the Messiah will have supernatural powers and that he is somehow "divine".
When the False-Messiah is empowered by Satan, he will have supernatural powers AND he will proclaim himself DIVINE and demand WORSHIP.
This is anathema to Jews. This incident is known as the "Abomination which makes (the Temple) Desolate". It is akin to slaughtering a pig on the altar and putting up an image of Zeus (which happened under Antiochus Epiphanes).

Epoisses
July 16th, 2017, 07:36 AM
Israel will already have a Temple and be 100% keeping the Law prior to the False-Messiah coming to power.
The one thing that Jews reject is that the Messiah will have supernatural powers and that he is somehow "divine".
When the False-Messiah is empowered by Satan, he will have supernatural powers AND he will proclaim himself DIVINE and demand WORSHIP.
This is anathema to Jews. This incident is known as the "Abomination which makes (the Temple) Desolate". It is akin to slaughtering a pig on the altar and putting up an image of Zeus (which happened under Antiochus Epiphanes).

I'm a moderate or non-dispensational futurist. Please don't confuse my beliefs with the comic book dispy/rapture heresy you see on this forum.

beameup
July 16th, 2017, 07:59 AM
I'm a moderate or non-dispensational futurist. Please don't confuse my beliefs with the comic book dispy/rapture heresy you see on this forum.

Well it takes a "futuristic", almost sci-fi, mindset to see the possibilities for the future, when Satan and his horde of fallen angels are turned-loose to deceive all mankind. The world is just not prepared for an onslaught of supernatural beings appearing on earth. There certainly won't be anything "comic-book" about it.

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. - Mat 24:24

northwye
July 16th, 2017, 09:22 AM
I wonder what it is about the scriptures quoted in post number 1 that are not liked by the recent posters, who have changed the topic of this thread.

This may be one clue about why the scriptures quoted in post number one are not liked: "If the antichrist is sitting in a rebuilt Jewish temple claiming to be God he is not going to be telling everyone to believe in Christ and the gospel." II Thessalonians 2: 3-4 is being interpreted literally and made to say that the man of sin is to sit in the literal temple of God. What church theology interprets scripture in a consistently literal way?

In post number 1 many scriptures from the Gospel of Christ are quoted. Is this what is not liked?

Nang
July 16th, 2017, 11:55 AM
No, I think it sounds unscriptural:
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. - 2 Thessalonians 2:12
Sounds like a whole lot of sinning going on in the Tribulation.

I believe a large part of this "strong delusion" is Dispensationalism, that has been wrongly and widely adopted in recent history by religionists who oppose the Apostolic, NT, and orthodox Gospel message.

daqq
July 16th, 2017, 02:26 PM
Matthew 24: 1-7, The Establishment of the Identity of Christ and The Destruction of the Temple

Matthew 24: 1-7 says "And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? 4. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places."

Christ did not answer the first question of his disciples, which was when would the temple be destroyed. But much of Matthew 24 is an answer to their second question, what will be the signs of his second appearing and of the end of the world.

"See ye not all these things?" is not what he says to his disciples. Why would he ask them if they see the stones and building works which they themselves were already pointing out to him and trying to show him? Especially when you take the Mark companion passage into the context? That is like you walking up to your teacher in class and showing him some colorful and bright stones you dug up somewhere; but he looks at you and asks you if you see the stones you are trying to show him. In other words it is a ridiculous rendering which makes the Master look foolish and it is because carnal minded translators cannot comprehend or fathom the possibility that the signs given in the Olivet Discourse are supernal and spiritual in meaning, (and they apply to each and every disciple for all time in every epoch and era from the moment the signs were given, no exceptions to the rule: Elohim is no respecter of the persons of men, and these things actually work toward our better in "the End").

Matthew 24:2 W/H
2 ο δε αποκριθεις ειπεν αυτοις ου βλεπετε ταυτα παντα αμην λεγω υμιν ου μη αφεθη ωδε λιθος επι λιθον ος ου καταλυθησεται

The highlighted portion can be understood as a direct command to his disciples:

"ου βλεπετε ταυτα παντα" ~ "Take no heed to all these things", (Pay no attention).

If you see the above as a command then you may begin to see that the Master is setting the stage for the entire discourse and all the signs which he is about to give them. The command also tells you that he is not speaking about physical things like temple-buildings made with the hands of men, for he says, "Pay no attention to these things! In other words what he is about to say has nothing to do with the physical temple-building made with the hands of men.

Matthew 24-2
2 And Jesus said to them, Take no heed [Pay no attention] to all these things! Amen, I say to you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another that shall not be thrown down.

In this manner of reading the text he still foretells the destruction of the physical temple; but that is clearly not the focus of what follows if one comprehends the above understanding. Moreover this is precisely the way in which the same word in the same form, (βλεπετε), is rendered by most translations only two verses later:

Matthew 24:4 W/H
4 και αποκριθεις ο ιησους ειπεν αυτοις βλεπετε μη τις υμας πλανηση

Matthew 24:4 ASV
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man lead you astray.

Moreover, as for the first question, he does indeed answer the "when" in the final punch-line conclusion of the passage, just as any good teacher would do at the close of a lengthy sermon. Problem is that most "prophecy buffs" do not have the patience to read that far and will not accept it even when it is shown to them because of a pre-existing terminal condition called paradigm-mindset-dogma.

Matthew 26:1-2 ASV
1 And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these words, he said unto his disciples,
2 Ye know that after two days the passover cometh, and the Son of man is delivered up to be crucified.

Herein above is the "when", and it comes as the final punch-line statement at the full close of the Olivet Discourse in the Gospel of Matthew. And when the "powers of the heavens" were shaken, the four pillars of Exodus 26:31,32,33, the veil was rent in two in the midst: and the seven stars which were embroidered upon the veil fell to the earth, (for the veil represents the heavens and it had all things supernal in the heavens embroidered upon it with the exception of the twelve signs because they are living creatures). Isaiah 6:1-4 foreshadows and prophesies of this event because the author speaks of the "cubit posts", ("And the cubit-posts of the door were rocked at the voice of the one who cried, (one of the Seraphim), and the house was filled with smoke").

Epoisses
July 16th, 2017, 04:04 PM
I wonder what it is about the scriptures quoted in post number 1 that are not liked by the recent posters, who have changed the topic of this thread.

This may be one clue about why the scriptures quoted in post number one are not liked: "If the antichrist is sitting in a rebuilt Jewish temple claiming to be God he is not going to be telling everyone to believe in Christ and the gospel." II Thessalonians 2: 3-4 is being interpreted literally and made to say that the man of sin is to sit in the literal temple of God. What church theology interprets scripture in a consistently literal way?

In post number 1 many scriptures from the Gospel of Christ are quoted. Is this what is not liked?

We don't like your incessant preterist or historical approach to prophecy.

Prophecy = foretell the future not the past!

Epoisses
July 16th, 2017, 04:06 PM
Well it takes a "futuristic", almost sci-fi, mindset to see the possibilities for the future, when Satan and his horde of fallen angels are turned-loose to deceive all mankind. The world is just not prepared for an onslaught of supernatural beings appearing on earth. There certainly won't be anything "comic-book" about it.

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. - Mat 24:24

Revelation talks about a war in the skies between Satan and his angels and Michael and his angels. Satan did not have seven heads and ten horns in his fall from heaven ergo it's an end-time war.

beameup
July 16th, 2017, 08:03 PM
Revelation talks about a war in the skies between Satan and his angels and Michael and his angels. Satan did not have seven heads and ten horns in his fall from heaven ergo it's an end-time war.

"Time" doesn't exist in the dimensions in which God, Satan, and the angels currently exist. So, you have to "think outside the box" of SPACE-TIME in order to properly understand this part of Revelation.
That being said, Satan and his fallen angels will "arrive" in our space-time and materialize upon the earth. Most would say that the "timing" coincides with the harpazo ("rapture").
Think of it as an "alien invasion" and you won't be far off.

daqq
July 17th, 2017, 02:05 AM
We don't like your incessant preterist or historical approach to prophecy.

Prophecy = foretell the future not the past!

If you say there are any prophetic statements from the Apostolic writings which have never yet come to pass then it simply means that your version of the Messiah, (because of Matthew 24 and Mark 13), and your version of Paul, (because of passages like 1Cor 15:51-58, 1Thes 4:15-18, and 2Thes 2:1-12), and your version of the author of the Apocalypse do not comply with the Torah; and therefore your version of them all, including the Messiah, are false prophets whom we are not to heed or fear, (Deut 18:15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22). You are teaching and believing in a false Messiah who violates the Torah by way of your misunderstanding of spiritual things. The Gospel is to each in his or her own appointed times, times appointed of the Father, a day and hour which no one but the Father knows. To say that such things never happened to those to whom the authors wrote, (such as even those to whom Paul wrote), is a complete misunderstanding of holy and spiritual teachings in holy and spiritual writings. Do you suppose the Thessalonians were keeping a watchful eye on the literal physical temple in Jerusalem from almost a thousand miles away across the Mediterranean Sea? They did not have Wailing-Wall webcams, satellites, television, computers, ipads, iphones, telephones, or even electricity in those days. It is not that such things are not future, but that they happen to all true disciples of the Messiah in the times appointed of the Father, (when a child becomes a son, Gal 4:1-2), and they are therefore future as pertaining to you in your own appointed times; and truth be told, your apocalypse will not likely be televised. :chuckle:

Epoisses
July 17th, 2017, 07:42 AM
If you say there are any prophetic statements from the Apostolic writings which have never yet come to pass then it simply means that your version of the Messiah, (because of Matthew 24 and Mark 13), and your version of Paul, (because of passages like 1Cor 15:51-58, 1Thes 4:15-18, and 2Thes 2:1-12), and your version of the author of the Apocalypse do not comply with the Torah; and therefore your version of them all, including the Messiah, are false prophets whom we are not to heed or fear, (Deut 18:15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22). You are teaching and believing in a false Messiah who violates the Torah by way of your misunderstanding of spiritual things. The Gospel is to each in his or her own appointed times, times appointed of the Father, a day and hour which no one but the Father knows. To say that such things never happened to those to whom the authors wrote, (such as even those to whom Paul wrote), is a complete misunderstanding of holy and spiritual teachings in holy and spiritual writings. Do you suppose the Thessalonians were keeping a watchful eye on the literal physical temple in Jerusalem from almost a thousand miles away across the Mediterranean Sea? They did not have Wailing-Wall webcams, satellites, television, computers, ipads, iphones, telephones, or even electricity in those days. It is not that such things are not future, but that they happen to all true disciples of the Messiah in the times appointed of the Father, (when a child becomes a son, Gal 4:1-2), and they are therefore future as pertaining to you in your own appointed times; and truth be told, your apocalypse will not likely be televised. :chuckle:

I never said the 2nd coming could be predicted but Jesus himself said when all these things happen (end-time events) we will know his coming is near even at the doors.

The seven trumpets, two witnesses, little horn/man of sin, abomination of desolation, seven last plagues are all end-time events that precede the 2nd coming.

northwye
July 18th, 2017, 07:41 PM
"The seven trumpets, two witnesses, little horn/man of sin, abomination of desolation, seven last plagues are all end-time events that precede the 2nd coming."

II Thessalonians 2: 3-4 is about the the falling away, or apostasy. It makes use of metaphoric language, and requires a knowledge of Acts 7: 48, I Corinthians 3: 16-17 and I Corinthians 6: 19 to get right. Remember that there are several other prophecies about an apostasy, such as Luke 13: 18-21, I Timothy 4: 1. II Timothy 3: 5, 7-8, II Timothy 4: 3-4 and there are those prophecies about the false prophets, such as Matthew 24: 11, and II Peter 2: 1-3, which imply that there is an apostasy. The parable of the wheat and the tares of Matthew 13: 24-30 shows that there is to be tares as well as wheat, which, when combined with Luke 13: 21, saying that the leavening of the kingdom of God increases in time, can mean that the tares at some point will outnumber the wheat.

In Christian Zionist end time prophecy the falling away of II Thessalonians 2: 3-4 is always future and it happens only when the one man super anti-Christ of dispensationalism appears. In reality the falling away in our time can be seen to have started in the 19th century with several false doctrines, dispensationalism being one of them. I John says 2: 18 says there are many anti-Christs and I John 4:3 says there is a spirit of anti-Christ and when John wrote this he said that even now the spirit of anti-Christ is in the world.

Epoisses
July 19th, 2017, 07:37 PM
I agree that John Darby the father of modern dispensational Christianity began the falling away from truth that we see today. Before his time nearly all Christians believed in spiritual Israel while today only a handful do. But please do not confuse my beliefs with those of the Left Behind people. Many of the early church fathers were futurists who believed that Israel would come to prominence at the end where a future temple would be rebuilt at the command of the antichrist. These are basically my beliefs in a nutshell. You spiritualize away vast portions of apocalyptic prophecy which is just as bad as over literalizing everything like Darby. Most of prophecy is literal except for obviously symbolic portions like the beasts with heads and horns and the 144K as symbolic of God's elect in the last days.

Jacob
July 19th, 2017, 08:57 PM
Shalom.

I do not believe that the Old Covenant ended with the destruction of the Second Temple.

Shalom.

Jacob

daqq
July 19th, 2017, 09:12 PM
I agree that John Darby the father of modern dispensational Christianity began the falling away from truth that we see today. Before his time nearly all Christians believed in spiritual Israel while today only a handful do. But please do not confuse my beliefs with those of the Left Behind people. Many of the early church fathers were futurists who believed that Israel would come to prominence at the end where a future temple would be rebuilt at the command of the antichrist. These are basically my beliefs in a nutshell. You spiritualize away vast portions of apocalyptic prophecy which is just as bad as over literalizing everything like Darby. Most of prophecy is literal except for obviously symbolic portions like the beasts with heads and horns and the 144K as symbolic of God's elect in the last days.

And you call me a nut case because you could not understand how Elohim dealt with me and delivered me when my daughter passed away. You are the sicko, and as I said already, you deny the Messiah because you deny the full work accomplished in his ministry and at Golgotha; and you cannot understand any such things because you walk according to the carnal mind of the unregenerated carnal man. The real Gospel is foolishness to you and you prove it by the way you mock and ridicule those who actually believe the words that are written in the scripture.

Epoisses
July 19th, 2017, 09:26 PM
And you call me a nut case because you could not understand how Elohim dealt with me and delivered me when my daughter passed away. You are the sicko, and as I said already, you deny the Messiah because you deny the full work accomplished in his ministry and at Golgotha; and you cannot understand any such things because you walk according to the carnal mind of the unregenerated carnal man. The real Gospel is foolishness to you and you prove it by the way you mock and ridicule those who actually believe the words that are written in the scripture.

You couldn't even carry a conversation with me unless I used buzzwords like Torah and law. Go weep for the shipwreck of faith you've made and beg for mercy from God.

daqq
July 19th, 2017, 09:43 PM
You couldn't even carry a conversation with me unless I used buzzwords like Torah and law. Go weep for the shipwreck of faith you've made and beg for mercy from God.

It is going to be a joy dismantling all of your false doctrine.
And even that will be for your own good, O mighty one. :chuckle:

daqq
July 19th, 2017, 11:08 PM
You couldn't even carry a conversation with me unless I used buzzwords like Torah and law. Go weep for the shipwreck of faith you've made and beg for mercy from God.

And as also already said, and again, you deny the Word when you deny the Torah, as even Stephen tells you that the Torah contains the LIVING WORDS of the Father. The Torah is the Word of the Father and therefore the Son of Elohim. You cut yourself off from the very Root by way of your own heretical doctrine every time you deny the Torah which is the Word of the Father:

Acts 7:37-38
37 This is that Moses, who said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall God raise up unto you from among your brethren, like unto me.
38 This is he that was in the congregation in the desert with the Angel that spoke to him in the Mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received living Oracles to give unto us:

The Torah is λογια ζωντα, Living Words, Living Oracles, Living Sayings, (LOGOS).
When you say "the law is abolished" you blaspheme Messiah the Word himself.

Romans 3:1-2
1 What advantage then has the Yhudi? or what is the profit of circumcision?
2 Much every way: first of all, that they were entrusted with the Oracles of Elohim.

τα λογια του θεου ~ "the Logia-Oracles of Elohim" ~ the Torah

Hebrews 5:12-14
12 For when by reason of the time you ought to be teachers, you have need yet again that some one teach you the rudiments of the first principles of the Oracles of Elohim; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of solid food.
13 For every one that partakes of milk is without experience of the Word of Righteousness; for he is a babe.
14 But solid food is for fully grown men, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern good and evil.

των λογιων του θεου ~ "the Logion-Oracles of Elohim" ~ the Torah
λογου δικαιοσυνης ~ "the Logos-Word of Righteousness"

And by the context within Hebrews 5:12-13 quoted above:

των λογιων του θεου = λογου δικαιοσυνης = the Torah

1 Peter 4:11
11 If anyone speak, let him speak according to the Oracles of Elohim; if anyone ministers, let him minister as from the strength which Elohim supplies: that in all things Elohim may be glorified through Meshiah Yeshua, to whom is the glory and the dominion into the ages of the ages. Amen.

λογια θεου ~ "the Oracles of Elohim" ~ the Torah

You do not speak according to the Torah but rather speak only ever against HIM!

Lazy afternoon
July 19th, 2017, 11:13 PM
And you call me a nut case because you could not understand how Elohim dealt with me and delivered me when my daughter passed away. You are the sicko, and as I said already, you deny the Messiah because you deny the full work accomplished in his ministry and at Golgotha; and you cannot understand any such things because you walk according to the carnal mind of the unregenerated carnal man. The real Gospel is foolishness to you and you prove it by the way you mock and ridicule those who actually believe the words that are written in the scripture.

Your usual weak response.

LA

Lazy afternoon
July 19th, 2017, 11:14 PM
Shalom.

I do not believe that the Old Covenant ended with the destruction of the Second Temple.

Shalom.

Jacob

The old covenant of the law was ended at the cross.

LA

Lazy afternoon
July 19th, 2017, 11:17 PM
"The seven trumpets, two witnesses, little horn/man of sin, abomination of desolation, seven last plagues are all end-time events that precede the 2nd coming."

II Thessalonians 2: 3-4 is about the the falling away, or apostasy. It makes use of metaphoric language, and requires a knowledge of Acts 7: 48, I Corinthians 3: 16-17 and I Corinthians 6: 19 to get right. Remember that there are several other prophecies about an apostasy, such as Luke 13: 18-21, I Timothy 4: 1. II Timothy 3: 5, 7-8, II Timothy 4: 3-4 and there are those prophecies about the false prophets, such as Matthew 24: 11, and II Peter 2: 1-3, which imply that there is an apostasy. The parable of the wheat and the tares of Matthew 13: 24-30 shows that there is to be tares as well as wheat, which, when combined with Luke 13: 21, saying that the leavening of the kingdom of God increases in time, can mean that the tares at some point will outnumber the wheat.

In Christian Zionist end time prophecy the falling away of II Thessalonians 2: 3-4 is always future and it happens only when the one man super anti-Christ of dispensationalism appears. In reality the falling away in our time can be seen to have started in the 19th century with several false doctrines, dispensationalism being one of them. I John says 2: 18 says there are many anti-Christs and I John 4:3 says there is a spirit of anti-Christ and when John wrote this he said that even now the spirit of anti-Christ is in the world.

My understanding of the falling away is the removal of the true God from both church and state, in writing and mention.

daqq
July 19th, 2017, 11:41 PM
Your usual weak response.

LA

Lol, you are just hard-boiled over your own doctrine already having been demolished.
Vengeance is Mine, says YHWH. :)

daqq
July 19th, 2017, 11:41 PM
The old covenant of the law was ended at the cross.

LA

Ho-hum, so what, another Messiah denier . . .

Epoisses
July 20th, 2017, 07:04 AM
And as also already said, and again, you deny the Word when you deny the Torah, as even Stephen tells you that the Torah contains the LIVING WORDS of the Father. The Torah is the Word of the Father and therefore the Son of Elohim. You cut yourself off from the very Root by way of your own heretical doctrine every time you deny the Torah which is the Word of the Father:

Acts 7:37-38
37 This is that Moses, who said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall God raise up unto you from among your brethren, like unto me.
38 This is he that was in the congregation in the desert with the Angel that spoke to him in the Mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received living Oracles to give unto us:

The Torah is λογια ζωντα, Living Words, Living Oracles, Living Sayings, (LOGOS).
When you say "the law is abolished" you blaspheme Messiah the Word himself.

Romans 3:1-2
1 What advantage then has the Yhudi? or what is the profit of circumcision?
2 Much every way: first of all, that they were entrusted with the Oracles of Elohim.

τα λογια του θεου ~ "the Logia-Oracles of Elohim" ~ the Torah

Hebrews 5:12-14
12 For when by reason of the time you ought to be teachers, you have need yet again that some one teach you the rudiments of the first principles of the Oracles of Elohim; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of solid food.
13 For every one that partakes of milk is without experience of the Word of Righteousness; for he is a babe.
14 But solid food is for fully grown men, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern good and evil.

των λογιων του θεου ~ "the Logion-Oracles of Elohim" ~ the Torah
λογου δικαιοσυνης ~ "the Logos-Word of Righteousness"

And by the context within Hebrews 5:12-13 quoted above:

των λογιων του θεου = λογου δικαιοσυνης = the Torah

1 Peter 4:11
11 If anyone speak, let him speak according to the Oracles of Elohim; if anyone ministers, let him minister as from the strength which Elohim supplies: that in all things Elohim may be glorified through Meshiah Yeshua, to whom is the glory and the dominion into the ages of the ages. Amen.

λογια θεου ~ "the Oracles of Elohim" ~ the Torah

You do not speak according to the Torah but rather speak only ever against HIM!

The wizard's spells get weaker and weaker. Your days of hocus pocus are over.

daqq
July 20th, 2017, 09:35 AM
The wizard's spells get weaker and weaker. Your days of hocus pocus are over.

Again you blaspheme the Word whom I quoted. Have you no shame?
Nope, you are as naked as a serpent, O king.

Jacob
July 20th, 2017, 10:16 AM
The old covenant of the law was ended at the cross.

LA
Shalom.

No. You are incorrect. What do you mean by the old covenant of the law?

Shalom.

Jacob

northwye
July 20th, 2017, 10:26 AM
"My understanding of the falling away is the removal of the true God from both church and state, in writing and mention."

The apostasy is the replacement of the doctrines taught by Christ with another Gospel, which is false, while pretending to continue to follow the doctrines of Christ.

In Matthew 24 deceive is used in verses 4, 5, 11 and 24. You could call the apostasy also the age of deception. The false prophets, who deceive, are defined in Matthew 24: 5, "For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many." That is, many will claim they follow the Jesus Christ of scripture, but in their doctrines they will deceive many.

"And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold." Matthew 24: 11-12

Scripture defines the spirit of anti-Christ as being different from the false prophet. "Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3. And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."

Here is an important method by which the apostasy is brought about: "God cannot speak into the pre-flood, Tower of Babel, Sodom and Gomorrah, dialectic mind, even though it might quote scripture." From: Dean Gotcher https://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/brai...ic-gotcher.htm

"The dialectic is man thinking through his feelings. This is the reason God flooded the world and will judge the world again. "And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man." (Luke 17:26) " So says Gotcher.

Revelation 13: 11 says the second beast has two horns like a lamb, but speaks like a dragon. "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

A lamb has two horns? How does the dragon speak? In Genesis 3 the "serpent" "was more subtle than any beast in the field," and he used the dialectic on Eve, saying in effect lets talk about you eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. "Lets have a dialog." "And come to a consensus."

Satan used Dragon Speak on Eve in Genesis 3: 1-6 to fix her obedience to God: "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2. And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3. But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat."


In John 8 the Pharisees used the dialectic - or Dragon Speak - to argue in opposition to the absolute Truth. Here the Absolute Truth was Christ standing before them. But their arguments did not change Christ's position. He said in John 8: 44 that the Pharisees were "... of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth."

The dialectic depends on establishing a dialogue and argues in direct opposition to a position,which for Hegel is called the thesis. The opposition to the thesis is the anti-thesis. The thesis is the doctrines of Christ and the anti-thesis is the false doctrines meant to overthrow and replace the doctrines of Christ, one at a time perhaps.

There is a text in the New Testament which, in the Greek, mentions the anti-thesis, which is part of the early Greek philosophy of the dialectic. This is I Timothy 6: 20-21.

The key part in Greek says "και αντιθεσεις της ψευδωνυμου γνωσεως,or "and anti-thesis of falsely called knowledge."

αντιθεσεις, or anti-thesis, is a technical term in the early Greek philosophy of the διαλεκτική, or dialectic, before the time of Christ.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic

"Dialectic (also dialectics and the dialectical method), from Ancient Greek διαλεκτική, is a method of argument.....The word dialectic originated in ancient Greece, and was made popular by Plato in the Socratic dialogues."

"In classical philosophy, dialectic (Greek: διαλεκτική) is a form of reasoning based upon dialogue of arguments and counter-arguments, advocating propositions (theses) and counter-propositions (antitheses)."

"Aristotle said that it was the pre-Socratic philosopher Zeno of Elea who invented dialectic, of which the dialogues of Plato are the examples of the Socratic dialectical method."

The dialectic is a form of deception and the Marxist version of the Hegelian dialectic has been developed into a belief and attitude change procedure, which also infiltrated the major institutions,including the churches, in the 20th century.

In Marxism the dialectic is used to overthrow absolute Truth and absolute Morality.

Versions of the dialectic have been used by he false prophets to weaken and eventually overthrow what in II Timothy 4: 3 is called sound doctrine.

The dialectic operates within dialogue and becomes a kind of game of arguments and counter-arguments within a quarrel which goes on a while. In being lured into this dialectic game the person who begins by defending the thesis - the doctrines of Christ - can be led to lose some or much of his love of the truth and faith. In this way sound doctrine can be replaced by false doctrine.

Zeke
July 20th, 2017, 10:37 AM
Traditions long institutionalized do not easily bend to correction of principles basically vital to their existence.

daqq
July 20th, 2017, 10:59 AM
Shalom.

No. You are incorrect. What do you mean by the old covenant of the law?

Shalom.

Jacob

The Master confirms the covenant to the many, according to how it is written in Dan 9:27, and he does so at the "Last Supper", (with the first cup mentioned, which is the cup spoken about in Matthew and Mark). That means that according to the false doctrine of Lazy afternoon the very same covenant(s) only lasted about a day. However there are at least two cups mentioned and both of them are referenced in Luke 22:17 and Luke 22:20. It is only the second cup mentioned which is called the "New Covenant", (Luke 22:20), and it is not for "the many" but privately for the disciples, ("for you", he says, again Luke 22:20). The reason why is because if one refuses to drink of the first cup of the covenant(s), "for many", then the same will NEVER get to drink of the second cup of the Renewed Covenant because it is personal, private, and individual: to each in his or her own appointed times.

First Cup:

Matthew 26:27-28 ASV
27 And he took a cup, and gave thanks, and gave to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many unto remission of sins.

First Cup:

Mark 14:23-24 ASV
23 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave to them: and they all drank of it.
24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.

First Cup:

Luke 22:17-20 ASV
17 And he received a cup, and when he had given thanks, he said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
18 for I say unto you, I shall not drink from henceforth of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and gave to them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Second Cup:

Luke22:20 ASV
20 And the cup in like manner after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood, even that which is poured out for you.

And this is not to say that there were only two cups but simply the only two cups mentioned in these passages. In the Textus Receptus and Byzantine text types, in the Matthew and Mark passages quoted above herein, they have erroneously inserted kainos, (new-renewed), next to the word for covenant or testament, so as to afford themselves something they do not have and will never understand so long as they continue to believe the error. In Matthew and Mark the Master only confirms "the covenant to/for the many", (Dan 9:27a). So when all these supposed prophecy scholars talk about an "antichrist covenant with the many" and a "covenant with death", (based on an erroneous understanding of Isa 28:14-18), in their wildly speculative future fulfillment antichrist world empire global holocaust prophecy teachings full of buffoonery, they blaspheme the work of Messiah whom they claim to know, love, worship, and serve.

Jacob
July 20th, 2017, 11:13 AM
The Master confirms the covenant to the many, according to how it is written in Dan 9:27, and he does so at the "Last Supper", (with the first cup mentioned, which is the cup spoken about in Matthew and Mark). That means that according to the false doctrine of Lazy afternoon the very same covenant(s) only lasted about a day. However there are at least two cups mentioned and both of them are referenced in Luke 22:17 and Luke 22:20. It is only the second cup mentioned which is called the "New Covenant", (Luke 22:20), and it is not for "the many" but privately for the disciples, ("for you", he says, again Luke 22:20). The reason why is because if one refuses to drink of the first cup of the covenant(s), "for many", then the same will NEVER get to drink of the second cup of the Renewed Covenant because it is personal, private, and individual: to each in his or her own appointed times.

First Cup:

Matthew 26:27-28 ASV
27 And he took a cup, and gave thanks, and gave to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many unto remission of sins.

First Cup:

Mark 14:23-24 ASV
23 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave to them: and they all drank of it.
24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.

First Cup:

Luke 22:17-20 ASV
17 And he received a cup, and when he had given thanks, he said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
18 for I say unto you, I shall not drink from henceforth of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and gave to them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Second Cup:

Luke22:20 ASV
20 And the cup in like manner after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood, even that which is poured out for you.

And this is not to say that there were only two cups but simply the only two cups mentioned in these passages. In the Textus Receptus and Byzantine text types, in the Matthew and Mark passages quoted above herein, they have erroneously inserted kainos, (new-renewed), next to the word for covenant or testament, so as to afford themselves something they do not have and will never understand so long as they continue to believe the error. In Matthew and Mark the Master only confirms "the covenant to/for the many", (Dan 9:27a). So when all these supposed prophecy scholars talk about an "antichrist covenant with the many" and a "covenant with death", (based on an erroneous understanding of Isa 28:14-18), in their wildly speculative future fulfillment antichrist world empire global holocaust prophecy teachings full of buffoonery, they blaspheme the work of Messiah whom they claim to know, love, worship, and serve.
Shalom.

No. I disagree with your post.

Shalom.

Jacob

daqq
July 20th, 2017, 11:26 AM
Shalom.

No. I disagree with your post.

Shalom.

Jacob

Shalom

No, you disagree with the scripture.

Zeke
July 20th, 2017, 11:29 AM
All previous Messianic characters, or Sun-gods, were only typal dramatizations of mans inner life, under the form of a representative history. The Christ were simply ideal figures held up before men to provide them with an inspiring picture of their own attainable perfection. Unbelievable as it may appear, it is a fact of history that with the lapse of time and the decay of philosophical culture, the more ignorant came to take these dramatic heroes for actually living persons.

Jacob
July 20th, 2017, 11:30 AM
Shalom

No, you disagree with the scripture.

Shalom.

Not if you are reading it correctly.

Shalom.

Jacob

daqq
July 20th, 2017, 11:57 AM
Shalom.

Not if you are reading it correctly.

Shalom.

Jacob

The Greek is even more specific than what I quoted from the ASV, so perhaps you should be more specific in your responses when you say, "No, I disagree with your post", because you essentially disagreed with my entire post in the way you worded your response. However my entire post was predicated on what the scripture says; which scripture passages I posted. When you make such "decrees" you make it look as if you imagine yourself as some Sage or Rabbi "affirming or denying with a word", (and you are no such thing though you appear to have suggested elsewhere that you fancy yourself a Rabbi in training).

Jacob
July 20th, 2017, 01:02 PM
The Greek is even more specific than what I quoted from the ASV, so perhaps you should be more specific in your responses when you say, "No, I disagree with your post", because you essentially disagreed with my entire post in the way you worded your response. However my entire post was predicated on what the scripture says; which scripture passages I posted. When you make such "decrees" you make it look as if you imagine yourself as some Sage or Rabbi "affirming or denying with a word", (and you are no such thing though you appear to have suggested elsewhere that you fancy yourself a Rabbi in training).
Shalom.

I do not disagree with scripture ever. Only sometimes with how people use scripture. I am not making a decree. My Rabbi did talk with me about becoming a Rabbi and gave me an assignment. I read, study, observe, keep, and teach Torah, as a Jew of Israel being a proselyte and a convert. I do not know Greek.

Shalom.

Jacob

Lazy afternoon
July 20th, 2017, 05:47 PM
The Master confirms the covenant to the many, according to how it is written in Dan 9:27, and he does so at the "Last Supper", (with the first cup mentioned, which is the cup spoken about in Matthew and Mark). That means that according to the false doctrine of Lazy afternoon the very same covenant(s) only lasted about a day.

Huh?

According to you, the shed blood of Jesus Christ inaugurated NO covenant,

and you say was completely unnecessary that any may be able to eat of His flesh and drink of His blood, as you claim to do.

LA

Lazy afternoon
July 20th, 2017, 05:51 PM
Northwye,

If you use the quote button I will be notified and not miss your replies.

LA

daqq
July 20th, 2017, 06:15 PM
Huh?

According to you, the shed blood of Jesus Christ inaugurated NO covenant,

and you say was completely unnecessary that any may be able to eat of His flesh and drink of His blood, as you claim to do.

LA

All the faithful are made to drink into one Spirit, and to partake of one Bread: the Bread of Life, for the Testimony of Messiah is Spirit and Life, as he says, (1Cor 10:16,17, 1Cor 12:13, John 6:48-58, John 6:63). Where is your literal physical blood for you to drink? You will never obtain it. Where is your literal physical flesh of Messiah to eat? You will never obtain it, yet you demand that as your atonement, but according to your carnal minded understanding you cannot keep the commandments of Messiah which will never pass away. In fact, if indeed he returned in glorified resurrected flesh tomorrow you would be required to eat his glorified flesh because he plainly says that the heavens and the earth will pass away but his words shall not pass away. Do you not think that perhaps you might be misunderstanding his words? Could it be that perhaps he made such bold and offensive statements so that everyone would know that he did not mean them literally and physically? You cannot serve the Master with one foot in the carnal and physical things. Your conflict will never be resolved so long as you ignore the words of Paul and continue walking according to the flesh in your understanding. Paul likewise warns you in many places of the consequences of your carnal man paradigm-mindset, (Rom 8:4-12,13, Gal 6:7,8, 2Cor 5:14,15,16,17, [and 2Cor 5:17 is quoting from Rev 21:4c-5a]).

Epoisses
July 20th, 2017, 07:53 PM
All the faithful are made to drink into one Spirit, and to partake of one Bread: the Bread of Life, for the Testimony of Messiah is Spirit and Life, as he says, (1Cor 10:16,17, 1Cor 12:13, John 6:48-58, John 6:63). Where is your literal physical blood for you to drink? You will never obtain it. Where is your literal physical flesh of Messiah to eat? You will never obtain it, yet you demand that as your atonement, but according to your carnal minded understanding you cannot keep the commandments of Messiah which will never pass away. In fact, if indeed he returned in glorified resurrected flesh tomorrow you would be required to eat his glorified flesh because he plainly says that the heavens and the earth will pass away but his words shall not pass away. Do you not think that perhaps you might be misunderstanding his words? Could it be that perhaps he made such bold and offensive statements so that everyone would know that he did not mean them literally and physically? You cannot serve the Master with one foot in the carnal and physical things. Your conflict will never be resolved so long as you ignore the words of Paul and continue walking according to the flesh in your understanding. Paul likewise warns you in many places of the consequences of your carnal man paradigm-mindset, (Rom 8:4-12,13, Gal 6:7,8, 2Cor 5:14,15,16,17, [and 2Cor 5:17 is quoting from Rev 21:4c-5a]).

The wizard mocks the shed blood of Christ because he is cutoff from it! When someone is lost and cutoff from grace they don't turn into axe murderers. They go into an endless loop of self-justification where they preach Torah over and over and over. The vast majority of people in the world are lost unbelievers and for the most part they live moral and respectable lives.

Lazy afternoon
July 21st, 2017, 12:52 AM
The wizard mocks the shed blood of Christ because he is cutoff from it! When someone is lost and cutoff from grace they don't turn into axe murderers. They go into an endless loop of self-justification where they preach Torah over and over and over. The vast majority of people in the world are lost unbelievers and for the most part they live moral and respectable lives.

Daqq will say almost anything to avoid confessing the shed blood of Christ, as the only means by which men are reconciled to God by faith in.

LA

Epoisses
July 21st, 2017, 07:38 AM
I wish they would beam Daqq back up to the mother ship. He's such a pest!

Interplanner
July 22nd, 2017, 07:47 PM
The "seed" of David in Psalm 89: 4 is his spiritual seed, as is the promise of the seed from Abraham also being his spiritual seed,.

North: in these cases and Christ there is a physical descendant that is traceable to the period in which they lived. But after that, it is their faith that matters. A person who has their faith can enjoy the fact that they had that physical descendancy at one point, but it does not matter downstream. Now the connection is by faith.

Interplanner
July 22nd, 2017, 07:49 PM
The first question "When will these things be?" is answered. I don't know why you said the first was not.

Interplanner
July 22nd, 2017, 07:51 PM
Daniel 9 is a prophecy for the reconstruction and restoration of Jerusalem and the temple in the last days not the days of Daniel. His book was sealed up until the time of the end which simply means that all his prophecies apply to the time of the end.




I don't see the restoration anywhere, but they do apply to the end of time (Heb 9:27) and that was the generation of Christ, from the Gospel event to the destruction.

Dan 9's prayer is FOR restoration, but ends with the pulverization of the city and sanctuary. He is to accept that the accomplishments of Christ for justification from sin are the restoration.

daqq
July 22nd, 2017, 08:05 PM
The wizard mocks the shed blood of Christ because he is cutoff from it! When someone is lost and cutoff from grace they don't turn into axe murderers. They go into an endless loop of self-justification where they preach Torah over and over and over. The vast majority of people in the world are lost unbelievers and for the most part they live moral and respectable lives.

Nope, all those passages I quoted are not wizardry but simply what the scripture says. You only falsely accuse those passages of being wizardry because you yourself are a word-sorcerer who subverts the scripture toward your own means and ends. It will do you no good in the end but rather only seal your fate.

daqq
July 22nd, 2017, 08:09 PM
Daqq will say almost anything to avoid confessing the shed blood of Christ, as the only means by which men are reconciled to God by faith in.

LA

You cannot handle being forced to confess to what the scripture actually says because you too are word-sorcerer who subverts the scripture to your own means and ends. For the same reason you closed your own call out thread about atonement when you saw that you have no answers for the scripture passages which refute you to your face. :)

daqq
July 22nd, 2017, 08:41 PM
Daqq will say almost anything to avoid confessing the shed blood of Christ, as the only means by which men are reconciled to God by faith in.

LA


I wish they would beam Daqq back up to the mother ship. He's such a pest!

Both of you detest the truth and that is really the only thing either of you have against me; and it is because I have posted scriptures that refute both of your doctrines, and you clearly have and had no responses to those passages. You both detest the truth because it interferes with your own private word-sorcering elixirs. This is true because both of you have been shown scripture passages which you openly reject and refuse to allow into your own privately held doctrines. Therefore the both of you are thieves who are stealing from the Word so as to concoct your own potions of doctrines which exclude the portions of the Word you do not wish to accept as true. And if you do not wish to be exposed by the light of scripture then stop making false accusations about me which force me to defend what I know from the scripture.

Lazy afternoon
July 23rd, 2017, 04:59 AM
Both of you detest the truth and that is really the only thing either of you have against me; and it is because I have posted scriptures that refute both of your doctrines, and you clearly have and had no responses to those passages. You both detest the truth because it interferes with your own private word-sorcering elixirs. This is true because both of you have been shown scripture passages which you openly reject and refuse to allow into your own privately held doctrines. Therefore the both of you are thieves who are stealing from the Word so as to concoct your own potions of doctrines which exclude the portions of the Word you do not wish to accept as true. And if you do not wish to be exposed by the light of scripture then stop making false accusations about me which force me to defend what I know from the scripture.

You have a habit of lying, in order to try to cover up that you deny the blood of Christ which atoned for believers sin, which you still have.

LA

Lazy afternoon
July 23rd, 2017, 05:02 AM
You cannot handle being forced to confess to what the scripture actually says because you too are word-sorcerer who subverts the scripture to your own means and ends. For the same reason you closed your own call out thread about atonement when you saw that you have no answers for the scripture passages which refute you to your face. :)

More lies from an unsaved man.

I closed the thread because Freelight was using it to post videos denying the blood of Christ, which supported Judaism which you agreed with.

LA

daqq
July 23rd, 2017, 12:49 PM
You have a habit of lying, in order to try to cover up that you deny the blood of Christ which atoned for believers sin, which you still have.

LA


More lies from an unsaved man.

I closed the thread because Freelight was using it to post videos denying the blood of Christ, which supported Judaism which you agreed with.

LA

Then why are you not burning down my own thread on atonement? What are you afraid of? I have no doubt that if you could actually defend your position you would have already burned down my thread with all of your scripture quotes and commentary. You are the liar and that has already been shown over and over again. Last time you made that accusation I asked you to prove it and of course you could do no such thing. What I have said about you is the truth because I know by experience from the unfortunate verbal exchanges with you here in this forum board. You are not capable of defending what you believe because you exclude the passages you do not wish to accept into your doctrine. You cannot find the truth because you think you already have it while rejecting certain portions of the Word and refusing to force yourself to solve the apparent surface contradictions and discrepancies, which are not contradictions at all, but rather put there intentionally so as to make you work and seek for the kingdom of Elohim, and so as to find out if truly indeed you love Elohim, and His Word, and diligently seek His kingdom. But you apparently are not willing to do those things, so instead you violate, attack, and molest those who do, just as your pal Epoisses the molester of the children of Elohim. Do you think you and Epoisses are never going to have to answer for continually molesting the children of Elohim? :chuckle:

Epoisses
July 23rd, 2017, 01:48 PM
I don't see the restoration anywhere, but they do apply to the end of time (Heb 9:27) and that was the generation of Christ, from the Gospel event to the destruction.

Dan 9's prayer is FOR restoration, but ends with the pulverization of the city and sanctuary. He is to accept that the accomplishments of Christ for justification from sin are the restoration.

When you look at Dan. 9, the Olivet discourse and 2Thess. 2 together it makes is obvious that there will be a rebuilt physical temple in the last days.

daqq
July 23rd, 2017, 01:52 PM
More lies from an unsaved man.

I closed the thread because Freelight was using it to post videos denying the blood of Christ, which supported Judaism which you agreed with.

LA

By the way, that was your own call-out thread leveled against freelight and as far as I can tell he has a right to defend his beliefs including posting videos. Have you never posted a video? Ah, yes, you have threads with nothing more than a video in the OP to make your point for the thread. You therefore bear witness against yourself that you are both a hypocrite and a coward because you yourself post videos; and when you posted a call-out thread, naming names and accusations in the OP, you then closed the thread like a coward and would not allow the one you called out to defend himself.

Epoisses
July 23rd, 2017, 01:53 PM
More lies from an unsaved man.

I closed the thread because Freelight was using it to post videos denying the blood of Christ, which supported Judaism which you agreed with.

LA

He's cutoff from grace by his own self-deception. Now he has visions of UFOs and aliens and preaches Torah over and over and over. God allows him to post here as a warning to others.

Epoisses
July 23rd, 2017, 01:54 PM
By the way, that was your own call-out thread leveled against freelight and as far as I can tell he has a right to defend his beliefs including posting videos. Have you never posted a video? Ah, yes, you have threads with nothing more than a video in the OP to make your point for the thread. You therefore bear witness against yourself that you are both a hypocrite and a coward because you yourself post videos; and when you posted a call-out thread, naming names and accusations in the OP, you then closed the thread like a coward and would not allow the one you called out to defend himself.

The jig is up for Daqq the deceiver. Your lies are old and no one believes them anymore.

daqq
July 23rd, 2017, 02:01 PM
When you look at Dan. 9, the Olivet discourse and 2Thess. 2 together it makes is obvious that there will be a rebuilt physical temple in the last days.

No it does not make any sense at all.


Ah, yes of course, and the Thessalonians were supposed to be watching for "the man of sin to be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped, so that he as God sits in the temple of God shewing himself that he is God." And of course, according to your literal-physical material world minded theory, the Thessalonians were supposed to be watching for this to happen in the literal physical temple-building made with hands of men, in the literal physical city of Jerusalem of below, from more than 800 miles away across the Aegean and Mediterranean Sea; without TV, satellites, cell phones, computers, the internet, a telescope, a pair of binoculars, or even electricity! Meanwhile they were right there in the heart of Yavan! (Greece, or as the KJV says in Daniel 8:21, "Grecia", lol).


https://ed18c523-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/elaiasindex/seven-churches.GIF


And of course, according to you Paul lied because it never happened for any of them because it was not an individual event, so they had to wait for your "final generation" to come along. Too bad they could not live two thousand years to see what you might get to see! :chuckle:


And this was a reply to you already herein:



If you say there are any prophetic statements from the Apostolic writings which have never yet come to pass then it simply means that your version of the Messiah, (because of Matthew 24 and Mark 13), and your version of Paul, (because of passages like 1Cor 15:51-58, 1Thes 4:15-18, and 2Thes 2:1-12), and your version of the author of the Apocalypse do not comply with the Torah; and therefore your version of them all, including the Messiah, are false prophets whom we are not to heed or fear, (Deut 18:15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22). You are teaching and believing in a false Messiah who violates the Torah by way of your misunderstanding of spiritual things. The Gospel is to each in his or her own appointed times, times appointed of the Father, a day and hour which no one but the Father knows. To say that such things never happened to those to whom the authors wrote, (such as even those to whom Paul wrote), is a complete misunderstanding of holy and spiritual teachings in holy and spiritual writings. Do you suppose the Thessalonians were keeping a watchful eye on the literal physical temple in Jerusalem from almost a thousand miles away across the Mediterranean Sea? They did not have Wailing-Wall webcams, satellites, television, computers, ipads, iphones, telephones, or even electricity in those days. It is not that such things are not future, but that they happen to all true disciples of the Messiah in the times appointed of the Father, (when a child becomes a son, Gal 4:1-2), and they are therefore future as pertaining to you in your own appointed times; and truth be told, your apocalypse will not likely be televised. :chuckle:

Epoisses
July 23rd, 2017, 02:02 PM
UFOs and aliens make the most sense to Daqq the deceiver!

Nang
July 23rd, 2017, 02:04 PM
When you look at Dan. 9, the Olivet discourse and 2Thess. 2 together it makes is obvious that there will be a rebuilt physical temple in the last days.

aaargh . . . :nono:

When the Lord returns, there will be no more days as we know them, for all is going to be destroyed with fire. No more city of Jerusalem. No land left upon which to rebuild anything. See II Peter 3:10-12

daqq
July 23rd, 2017, 02:08 PM
UFOs and aliens make the most sense to Daqq the deceiver!

That is a flat-out lie and misrepresentation of what I believe. You are nothing more than a sleazy politician who repeats the same lie over and over again hoping it will stick. In the kingdom of Elohim it is murder to lie about someone because murders proceed from the heart and come forth from the mouth just as the Master says and teaches; and therefore John says, whosoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life dwelling in him. You again bear witness against yourself that you are a wolf in a sheepskin because I already told that I know those things you accuse me of believing are evil, (UFO'S, blah, blah, blah). You are the one who was seeking them out in your own thread, and as I said to you there, perhaps you should go immerse yourself in the Urantia thread if you want to commune with "aliens", (lol). You even said you wanted to learn how to fire one of their laser cannons: how is it that you know more about them than I do, wolfie?

Epoisses
July 23rd, 2017, 02:09 PM
aaargh . . . :nono:

When the Lord returns, there will be no more days as we know them, for all is going to be destroyed with fire. No more city of Jerusalem. No land left upon which to rebuild anything. See II Peter 3:10-12

Half of the people on this forum advocate Law or Torah worship in some form so yes the antichrist will physically make an appearance, order the restoration of Jerusalem and the temple and then force the entire world back under the Law of Moses. It's coming whether you hide your head in the sand or not. Jerusalem will become the capital of the entire world at the very end aka Babylon the Great!

daqq
July 23rd, 2017, 02:14 PM
UFOs and aliens make the most sense to Daqq the deceiver!


Half of the people on this forum advocate Law or Torah worship in some form so yes the antichrist will physically make an appearance, order the restoration of Jerusalem and the temple and then force the entire world back under the Law of Moses. It's coming whether you hide your head in the sand or not.

Why do you pay no attention to what was just said to you, (again)?
Your flesh-minded interpretation is calling Paul a liar.

If you say there are any prophetic statements from the Apostolic writings which have never yet come to pass then it simply means that your version of the Messiah, (because of Matthew 24 and Mark 13), and your version of Paul, (because of passages like 1Cor 15:51-58, 1Thes 4:15-18, and 2Thes 2:1-12), and your version of the author of the Apocalypse do not comply with the Torah; and therefore your version of them all, including the Messiah, are false prophets whom we are not to heed or fear, (Deut 18:15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22). You are teaching and believing in a false Messiah who violates the Torah by way of your misunderstanding of spiritual things. The Gospel is to each in his or her own appointed times, times appointed of the Father, a day and hour which no one but the Father knows. To say that such things never happened to those to whom the authors wrote, (such as even those to whom Paul wrote), is a complete misunderstanding of holy and spiritual teachings in holy and spiritual writings. Do you suppose the Thessalonians were keeping a watchful eye on the literal physical temple in Jerusalem from almost a thousand miles away across the Mediterranean Sea? They did not have Wailing-Wall webcams, satellites, television, computers, ipads, iphones, telephones, or even electricity in those days. It is not that such things are not future, but that they happen to all true disciples of the Messiah in the times appointed of the Father, (when a child becomes a son, Gal 4:1-2), and they are therefore future as pertaining to you in your own appointed times; and truth be told, your apocalypse will not likely be televised.

Ah, yes of course, and the Thessalonians were supposed to be watching for "the man of sin to be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped, so that he as God sits in the temple of God shewing himself that he is God." And of course, according to your literal-physical material world minded theory, the Thessalonians were supposed to be watching for this to happen in the literal physical temple-building made with hands of men, in the literal physical city of Jerusalem of below, from more than 800 miles away across the Aegean and Mediterranean Sea; without TV, satellites, cell phones, computers, the internet, a telescope, a pair of binoculars, or even electricity! Meanwhile they were right there in the heart of Yavan! (Greece, or as the KJV says in Daniel 8:21, "Grecia", lol).


https://ed18c523-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/elaiasindex/seven-churches.GIF


And of course, according to you Paul lied because it never happened for any of them because it was not an individual event, so they had to wait for your "final generation" to come along. Too bad they could not live two thousand years to see what you might get to see!

Epoisses
July 23rd, 2017, 02:15 PM
Why do you pay no attention to what was just said to you, (again)?

If you say there are any prophetic statements from the Apostolic writings which have never yet come to pass then it simply means that your version of the Messiah, (because of Matthew 24 and Mark 13), and your version of Paul, (because of passages like 1Cor 15:51-58, 1Thes 4:15-18, and 2Thes 2:1-12), and your version of the author of the Apocalypse do not comply with the Torah; and therefore your version of them all, including the Messiah, are false prophets whom we are not to heed or fear, (Deut 18:15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22). You are teaching and believing in a false Messiah who violates the Torah by way of your misunderstanding of spiritual things. The Gospel is to each in his or her own appointed times, times appointed of the Father, a day and hour which no one but the Father knows. To say that such things never happened to those to whom the authors wrote, (such as even those to whom Paul wrote), is a complete misunderstanding of holy and spiritual teachings in holy and spiritual writings. Do you suppose the Thessalonians were keeping a watchful eye on the literal physical temple in Jerusalem from almost a thousand miles away across the Mediterranean Sea? They did not have Wailing-Wall webcams, satellites, television, computers, ipads, iphones, telephones, or even electricity in those days. It is not that such things are not future, but that they happen to all true disciples of the Messiah in the times appointed of the Father, (when a child becomes a son, Gal 4:1-2), and they are therefore future as pertaining to you in your own appointed times; and truth be told, your apocalypse will not likely be televised.

Ah, yes of course, and the Thessalonians were supposed to be watching for "the man of sin to be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped, so that he as God sits in the temple of God shewing himself that he is God." And of course, according to your literal-physical material world minded theory, the Thessalonians were supposed to be watching for this to happen in the literal physical temple-building made with hands of men, in the literal physical city of Jerusalem of below, from more than 800 miles away across the Aegean and Mediterranean Sea; without TV, satellites, cell phones, computers, the internet, a telescope, a pair of binoculars, or even electricity! Meanwhile they were right there in the heart of Yavan! (Greece, or as the KJV says in Daniel 8:21, "Grecia", lol).


https://ed18c523-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/elaiasindex/seven-churches.GIF


And of course, according to you Paul lied because it never happened for any of them because it was not an individual event, so they had to wait for your "final generation" to come along. Too bad they could not live two thousand years to see what you might get to see!

....speak of the devil

daqq
July 23rd, 2017, 02:55 PM
....speak of the devil

You do so on a continual basis because you do not believe the scripture which has been posted to you on a continual basis. Ho Anomos sits in your temple claiming to be God Almighty, exalting himself above everything that is called God, showing himself and you that he is God, like an angel of light, two horns like a precious lamb but speaking like a dragon in all of the evil words and deeds which proceed from your heart and exit from your mouth and fingertips as you write, and no doubt the tree and vine is known by its fruit. You should have believed Paul when he warned you that you are the temple of Elohim; you should have believe John the Elder when he warned you to test and try the spirits to see whether or not they be of Elohim. And yet your master tells you that the Torah is abolished, and you therefore are utterly lawless by your own confessions herein, and you believe your master simply because he told you his name is Jesus. You should have checked with the real Jesus by way of his Testimony in the Gospel accounts. And now what will you do? for as I said to you already several times, the boil in your forehead is already festering: and how will you overcome now that you are utterly defiled? For even Paul warns you that anyone who defiles the temple of Elohim, Elohim will destroy that evil one. You will need to cut off your right hand, just as the real Master says to do in the Gospel accounts, and you will need to loose your defiled head and rancid mind, and perhaps then, if you overcome, you will be able to put on the mind of Messiah as Paul likewise tells you to do. Make no mistake, O child of Lawlessness and Torahlessness, Elohim will not be mocked: you will either do what the scripture demands or you will go away with your false Assyrian Vine into destruction. These things I know from my own experience, as detailed in my testimony, which you keep mocking. Your apocalypse will not be televised. :chuckle:

daqq
July 23rd, 2017, 03:10 PM
1 Corinthians 6:19-20
19 What? know you not that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have from Elohim? and you are not your own?
20 For you were bought with a price: therefore glorify Elohim in your body.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17
16 Know you not that you are the temple of Elohim, and that the Spirit of Elohim dwells in you?
17 If anyone shall defile the temple of Elohim, the same shall Elohim destroy: for the temple of Elohim is holy, which temple you are.

Matthew 15:18-20
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Poor, poor, utterly defiled, lawless, Epoisses, what shall he do? :chuckle:

Lazy afternoon
July 23rd, 2017, 05:47 PM
aaargh . . . :nono:

When the Lord returns, there will be no more days as we know them, for all is going to be destroyed with fire. No more city of Jerusalem. No land left upon which to rebuild anything. See II Peter 3:10-12

Incorrect.

Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Zec 12:4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.

(judahs horses)

Zec 12:5 And the governors (only believers in Christ)
of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of (Heavenly)Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
Zec 12:6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
Zec 12:7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem (the resurrected saints)do not magnify themselves against Judah.
Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.(the resurrected saints of the Heavenly Jerusalem)

Lazy afternoon
July 23rd, 2017, 05:57 PM
You do so on a continual basis because you do not believe the scripture which has been posted to you on a continual basis. Ho Anomos sits in your temple claiming to be God Almighty, exalting himself above everything that is called God, showing himself and you that he is God, like an angel of light, two horns like a precious lamb but speaking like a dragon in all of the evil words and deeds which proceed from your heart and exit from your mouth and fingertips as you write, and no doubt the tree and vine is known by its fruit. You should have believed Paul when he warned you that you are the temple of Elohim; you should have believe John the Elder when he warned you to test and try the spirits to see whether or not they be of Elohim. And yet your master tells you that the Torah is abolished, and you therefore are utterly lawless by your own confessions herein, and you believe your master simply because he told you his name is Jesus. You should have checked with the real Jesus by way of his Testimony in the Gospel accounts. And now what will you do? for as I said to you already several times, the boil in your forehead is already festering: and how will you overcome now that you are utterly defiled? For even Paul warns you that anyone who defiles the temple of Elohim, Elohim will destroy that evil one. You will need to cut off your right hand, just as the real Master says to do in the Gospel accounts, and you will need to loose your defiled head and rancid mind, and perhaps then, if you overcome, you will be able to put on the mind of Messiah as Paul likewise tells you to do. Make no mistake, O child of Lawlessness and Torahlessness, Elohim will not be mocked: you will either do what the scripture demands or you will go away with your false Assyrian Vine into destruction. These things I know from my own experience, as detailed in my testimony, which you keep mocking. Your apocalypse will not be televised. :chuckle:

You sit yourself in Gods temple telling everyone you are God.

You commit the same thing you claim of others.

You are as yet under the spell of anti-Christ.

All your words men nothing when you will not acknowledge the shed blood of Christ for the atonement of sin.

LA

daqq
July 23rd, 2017, 06:21 PM
You sit yourself in Gods temple telling everyone you are God.

You commit the same thing you claim of others.

You are as yet under the spell of anti-Christ.

All your words men nothing when you will not acknowledge the shed blood of Christ for the atonement of sin.

LA

More false accusations: prove what you say.

This is from right here in this thread:


The Master confirms the covenant to the many, according to how it is written in Dan 9:27, and he does so at the "Last Supper", (with the first cup mentioned, which is the cup spoken about in Matthew and Mark). That means that according to the false doctrine of Lazy afternoon the very same covenant(s) only lasted about a day. However there are at least two cups mentioned and both of them are referenced in Luke 22:17 and Luke 22:20. It is only the second cup mentioned which is called the "New Covenant", (Luke 22:20), and it is not for "the many" but privately for the disciples, ("for you", he says, again Luke 22:20). The reason why is because if one refuses to drink of the first cup of the covenant(s), "for many", then the same will NEVER get to drink of the second cup of the Renewed Covenant because it is personal, private, and individual: to each in his or her own appointed times.

First Cup:

Matthew 26:27-28 ASV
27 And he took a cup, and gave thanks, and gave to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many unto remission of sins.

First Cup:

Mark 14:23-24 ASV
23 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave to them: and they all drank of it.
24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.

First Cup:

Luke 22:17-20 ASV
17 And he received a cup, and when he had given thanks, he said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
18 for I say unto you, I shall not drink from henceforth of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and gave to them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Second Cup:

Luke22:20 ASV
20 And the cup in like manner after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood, even that which is poured out for you.

And this is not to say that there were only two cups but simply the only two cups mentioned in these passages. In the Textus Receptus and Byzantine text types, in the Matthew and Mark passages quoted above herein, they have erroneously inserted kainos, (new-renewed), next to the word for covenant or testament, so as to afford themselves something they do not have and will never understand so long as they continue to believe the error. In Matthew and Mark the Master only confirms "the covenant to/for the many", (Dan 9:27a). So when all these supposed prophecy scholars talk about an "antichrist covenant with the many" and a "covenant with death", (based on an erroneous understanding of Isa 28:14-18), in their wildly speculative future fulfillment antichrist world empire global holocaust prophecy teachings full of buffoonery, they blaspheme the work of Messiah whom they claim to know, love, worship, and serve.

Again, you are a liar, and you deny by your false doctrine what the Master tells you right here in these passages quoted above; for he speaks of his true blood, "the pure blood of the grape", (as it is written in the Torah of Moses), and that is because he is the True Vine, (as it is written in the Gospel of John). Your vine, your nourishment, your teacher is the Assyrian who loves the flesh and all things carnal of the carnal eyes and mind of the natural man. You are a theoretical cannibal because you do not believe the Testimony of the Messiah in the Gospel accounts. Prove me wrong, and while you are at it, prove what you say about me with scripture to back up what you say: otherwise I know you are only lying once again.

Matthew 26:27-28 ASV
27 And he took a cup, and gave thanks, and gave to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many unto remission of sins.

Mark 14:23-24 ASV
23 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave to them: and they all drank of it.
24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.

Luke 22:17-18 ASV
17 And he received a cup, and when he had given thanks, he said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
18 for I say unto you, I shall not drink from henceforth of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

Interplanner
July 23rd, 2017, 06:38 PM
The post at the top by Epoisses doesn't realize that the Dan 9 vision ends in the 1st century, that the Thess re-expression of it was about the same thing and those parts of Mt 24, Mk 13 and Lk 21 that are about that generation; all those are about the same thing. It was about the Jewish revolt of the 6th decade that ruined the country.

freelight
July 23rd, 2017, 07:26 PM
He's cutoff from grace by his own self-deception. Now he has visions of UFOs and aliens and preaches Torah over and over and over. God allows him to post here as a warning to others.

Nice try, - no visions of UFO or aliens (never claimed them), and I don't preach 'Torah' at all (except what the Torah itself claims, some of which is of questionable origin, just like your NT),...and am having second thoughts about the 'god' of the OT as it is, in my current studies in Marcionism.

'God' certainly does allow me to be 'free' to write my own gospel and live my own myth (we gnostics have always had this liberty). As far as my 'theology' goes, my commentaries speak for themselves; I'm ever evolving, engaging creative dialogue,....life is a never ending journey of expanding consciousness.

I'm just as ready to question my own 'concepts' of 'God' as anyone elses.

Unfortunately, some think they can put 'God' in a box, but all they have are their own visions, images and ideas about 'God', which is not always the same as being cognizant of the living spirit-reality of Deity itself, within their own being. But that's another story ;).......

freelight
July 23rd, 2017, 07:27 PM
UFOs and aliens make the most sense to Daqq the deceiver!

Did you forget to take your meds again?

Its sad if you're following the bandwagon of the likes of Grosnick Marowbe, who spouts a lot about UFO's and little green men, and has little knowledge of what he speaks about concerning that volume of 119 Papers which make up The Urantia Book. My correction and rebuttal of his UFO/Alien claims still holds here (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?103005-BROTHERHOOD-OF-THE-URANTIA-FANATICS!&p=3981569&viewfull=1#post3981569).

The study of Ufology and alien races associated with such visitations to our planet includes a vaster field of research in at least the last century, while records of celestial beings (angels, sons of God) giving messages to mankind is in a category all its own, such as the Bible or UB. The claims of any religious message, spiritual teaching or epochal revelation is to be evaluated by the very content, meaning and value of the message itself, therefore let the reader decide what is true or false therein, while ever being open to 'progressive revelation'.

I do have a thread more along the lines of contemporary UFO research and Exopolitics here (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?44284-The-Disclosure-Project&highlight=) :thumb:

daqq
July 23rd, 2017, 07:33 PM
The post at the top by Epoisses doesn't realize that the Dan 9 vision ends in the 1st century, that the Thess re-expression of it was about the same thing and those parts of Mt 24, Mk 13 and Lk 21 that are about that generation; all those are about the same thing. It was about the Jewish revolt of the 6th decade that ruined the country.

According to your understanding was Paul mistaken in what he wrote to the Thessalonians, in places such as 2Thes 1:4-10 and 2Thes 2:1-12, or did those things he wrote come to pass for them in their appointed times? Moreover was the Master himself mistaken in what he spoke in Matthew 24 and Mark 13? "And what I say unto you, I say unto all, WATCH!" (Mark 13:37).

freelight
July 23rd, 2017, 07:43 PM
More false accusations: prove what you say.

This is from right here in this thread:



Again, you are a liar, and you deny by your false doctrine what the Master tells you right here in these passages quoted above; for he speaks of his true blood, "the pure blood of the grape", (as it is written in the Torah of Moses), and that is because he is the True Vine, (as it is written in the Gospel of John). Your vine, your nourishment, your teacher is the Assyrian who loves the flesh and all things carnal of the carnal eyes and mind of the natural man. You are a theoretical cannibal because you do not believe the Testimony of the Messiah in the Gospel accounts. Prove me wrong, and while you are at it, prove what you say about me with scripture to back up what you say: otherwise I know you are only lying once again.

Matthew 26:27-28 ASV
27 And he took a cup, and gave thanks, and gave to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many unto remission of sins.

Mark 14:23-24 ASV
23 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave to them: and they all drank of it.
24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.

Luke 22:17-18 ASV
17 And he received a cup, and when he had given thanks, he said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
18 for I say unto you, I shall not drink from henceforth of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.


Indeed, there is no reason to suppose or impose that the Eucharist was a ceremony depicting a penal substitutionary blood sacrifice, as the 'blood' and 'flesh' are symbolic of the fruit of the vine, and the 'bread' of life that comes down from heaven, the regenerating spirit of Life itself, the SPIRIT. I share more on this in the 'blood atonement according to freelight' (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?123355-Atonement-without-blood-according-to-Freelight&highlight=) thread, that LA started some time ago, then CLOSED before I could respond with more commentary. The life Jesus offers comes thru the tokens of the symbol of nature (blood of grapes, the vine, grain, bread, water, the sun, the spirit, etc.)...and transcends old barbaric concepts such as 'penal substitutionary' blood atonement. Just as the fruit of the vine (harvested from the fields) and the 'bread' gives our physical bodies nourishment and life,...so does the manna from heaven, who comes in the form of the Messiah,...give us spiritual nourishment.

keypurr
July 23rd, 2017, 07:59 PM
I wish they would beam Daqq back up to the mother ship. He's such a pest!

We need more pests like him here.
He brings truth to the forum.


Sent from my iPad using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)

daqq
July 23rd, 2017, 08:12 PM
We need more pests like him here.
He brings truth to the forum.

Sent from my iPad using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)

Thanks, my pesky true believer friend! :)


Indeed, there is no reason to suppose or impose that the Eucharist was a ceremony depicting a penal substitutionary blood sacrifice, as the 'blood' and 'flesh' are symbolic of the fruit of the vine, and the 'bread' of life that comes down from heaven, the regenerating spirit of Life itself, the SPIRIT. I share more on this in the 'blood atonement according to freelight' (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?123355-Atonement-without-blood-according-to-Freelight&highlight=) thread, that LA started some time ago, then CLOSED before I could respond with more commentary. The life Jesus offers comes thru the tokens of the symbol of nature (blood of grapes, the vine, grain, bread, water, the sun, the spirit, etc.)...and transcends old barbaric concepts such as 'penal substitutionary' blood atonement. Just as the fruit of the vine (harvested from the fields) and the 'bread' gives our physical bodies nourishment and life,...so does the manna from heaven, who comes in the form of the Messiah,...give us spiritual nourishment.

:thumb:

Amen, and the nourishment is ultimately The Word, which is The Testimony of Messiah, which according to the allegories and teachings of his apostles is tantamount and equivalent to his blood because he paid for his Testimony with his own life, (which has been explained to LA both in that closed thread and in several other places). That is why the passages I quoted do not say, "Shall be poured out", or, "Is about to be poured out", no, but rather, "Is being poured out", because it concerns his holy Testimony which is SPIRIT and LIFE. Those who do not wish to DO and WALK his Testimony apparently find it easier to pretend they are drinking human blood or "God-Man" blood, (aka Catholicism and transubstantiation).

Epoisses
July 23rd, 2017, 08:24 PM
Did you forget to take your meds again?

Its sad if you're following the bandwagon of the likes of Grosnick Marowbe, who spouts a lot about UFO's and little green men, and has little knowledge of what he speaks about concerning that volume of 119 Papers which make up The Urantia Book. My correction and rebuttal of his UFO/Alien claims still holds here (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?103005-BROTHERHOOD-OF-THE-URANTIA-FANATICS!&p=3981569&viewfull=1#post3981569).

The study of Ufology and alien races associated with such visitations to our planet includes a vaster field of research in at least the last century, while records of celestial beings (angels, sons of God) giving messages to mankind is in a category all its own, such as the Bible or UB. The claims of any religious message, spiritual teaching or epochal revelation is to be evaluated by the very content, meaning and value of the message itself, therefore let the reader decide what is true or false therein, while ever being open to 'progressive revelation'.

I do have a thread more along the lines of contemporary UFO research and Exopolitics here (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?44284-The-Disclosure-Project&highlight=) :thumb:

Freelight, I consider your posts to be those of someone who is genuinely seeking for truth. But I must inform you that the alien/UFO propaganda that is currently being fed to the world is demonic built around the heresy of evolution. Everything that God creates is beautiful and perfect so there are no bug-eyed greys or reptilians except in the realm of the demonic. This caricature is meant to lower the conceptions of man to the basest of levels. The actual truth of the matter is that the universe is populated by perfect men and women with perfect bodies who never fell into sin like we did. They look down on us as poor and pathetic because we are.

daqq
July 23rd, 2017, 08:30 PM
Freelight, I consider your posts to be those of someone who is genuinely seeking for truth. But I must inform you that the alien/UFO propaganda that is currently being fed to the world is demonic built around the heresy of evolution. Everything that God creates is beautiful and perfect so there are no bug-eyed greys or reptilians except in the realm of the demonic. This caricature is meant to lower the conceptions of man to the basest of levels. The actual truth of the matter is that the universe is populated by perfect men and women with perfect bodies who never fell into sin like we did. They look down on us as poor and pathetic because we are.

Nope, that absolutely cannot be what you believe because that is almost the same as what I believe; and you have seen it in my testimony which you have been continually mocking. I do not believe you: your testimony is a joke because either way you are lying. How can you believe the same thing I do and yet continually lie the way you have been lying? You have posted links to my testimony, (when I never asked for any such thing and never sent you there in the first place), so anyone can now go and see that you are lying one way or the other. I suppose that is what you get for blaspheming the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of my heavenly Father.

freelight
July 23rd, 2017, 08:31 PM
Freelight, I consider your posts to be those of someone who is genuinely seeking for truth. But I must inform you that the alien/UFO propaganda that is currently being fed to the world is demonic built around the heresy of evolution. Everything that God creates is beautiful and perfect so there are no bug-eyed greys or reptilians except in the realm of the demonic. This caricature is meant to lower the conceptions of man to the basest of levels. The actual truth of the matter is that the universe is populated by perfect men and women with perfect bodies who never fell into sin like we did. They look down on us as poor and pathetic because we are.

It may be well to discuss these subjects on the threads dedicated to them, since it seems we have many preconceptions and presuppositions going on regarding these matters. As far as 'seeking' anything, I don't know,....I'm always asking, seeking and knocking as Jesus encourages, since only those who do so...LEARN anything. Research in life is on-going, since conditional existence itself is subject to change, evolution, eternal progression, transformation.

As far as life on other planets goes, I gather there are beings of varying degrees of evolution and advancement, both spiritually and with technology. I don't see any logic or reason to conclude otherwise, or evidence that suggests otherwise.

Epoisses
July 23rd, 2017, 08:37 PM
Nope, that absolutely cannot be what you believe because that is almost the same as what I believe; and you have seen it in my testimony which you have been continually mocking. I do not believe you: your testimony is a joke because either way you are lying. How can you believe the same thing I do and yet continually lie the way you have been lying? You have posted links to my testimony, (when I never asked for any such thing and never sent you there in the first place), so anyone can now go and see that you are lying one way or the other. I suppose that is what you get for blaspheming the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of my heavenly Father.

You're so annoying.

freelight
July 23rd, 2017, 08:48 PM
Thanks, my pesky true believer friend! :)



:thumb:

Amen, and the nourishment is ultimately The Word, which is The Testimony of Messiah, which according to the allegories and teachings of his apostles is tantamount and equivalent to his blood because he paid for his Testimony with his own life, (which has been explained to LA both in that closed thread and in several other places). That is why the passages I quoted do not say, "Shall be poured out", or, "Is about to be poured out", no, but rather, "Is being poured out", because it concerns his holy Testimony which is SPIRIT and LIFE. Those who do not wish to DO and WALK his Testimony apparently find it easier to pretend they are drinking human blood or "God-Man" blood, (aka Catholicism and transubstantiation).

The penal substitutionary death model of 'blood-atonement' is especially backwards and illogical to true spiritual intelligence, since divine LOVE does not demand bloodshed, but only requires a re-turning to truth, love, integrity, ....a true 'repentance'. This has always been the calling of the prophets, and always will be, since 'repentance' is key to soul-transformation (changing one's mind, thoughts, directives, motives, intentions). Love does no harm, neither does it DEMAND the death of another to 'atone' for sins, since the soul must atone for its own sins by repentance, reparation, and all it can do to make amends thru restitution, while all is ultimately absolved by 'forgiveness'.

Epoisses
July 23rd, 2017, 08:55 PM
Another truth that has been twisted to the extreme is that Adam and Eve and the angels were giants compared to people today. It is estimated that Adam and Eve were upwards of 16 to 18 feet tall which is three times larger than people today. I have been studying creation science for 20 years and the earth prior to the flood had a canopy that enabled people, animals and plant life to grow like nothing we see today. So at the beginning of time man was perfect and since then our ages have shortened and our height and stature has shrunken as well. Basically the exact opposite of evolutionary teaching.

daqq
July 23rd, 2017, 09:00 PM
The penal substitutionary death model of 'blood-atonement' is especially backwards and illogical to true spiritual intelligence, since divine LOVE does not demand bloodshed, but only requires a re-turning to truth, love, integrity, ....a true 'repentance'. This has always been the calling of the prophets, and always will be, since 'repentance' is key to soul-transformation (changing one's mind, thoughts, directives, motives, intentions). Love does no harm, neither does it DEMAND the death of another to 'atone' for sins, since the soul must atone for its own sins by repentance, reparation, and all it can do to make amends thru restitution, while all is ultimately absolved by 'forgiveness'.

Very true, and those things are found in the Torah and even all of the Tanach, and therefore I hope you do not go down that dualism trail with Marcion, (I saw those comments), for he was a true Gnostic dualist; not that he did not believe in the "Old Testament God", he did, but instead taught that the "Old Testament God" was evil, (the "Demiurge"). I fear for you friend, that direction will remove any foundation you have left for anything you believe. The Torah is spiritual even as Paul says; it has to do with cutting off sin and evil, (not literal physical human beings or people). :)

Epoisses
July 23rd, 2017, 09:02 PM
Very true, and those things are found in the Torah and even all of the Tanach, and therefore I hope you do not go down that dualism trail with Marcion, (I saw those comments), for he was a true Gnostic dualist; not that he did not believe in the "Old Testament God", he did, but instead taught that the "Old Testament God" was evil, (the "Demiurge"). I fear for you friend, that direction will remove any foundation you have left for anything you believe. The Torah is spiritual even as Paul says; it has to do with cutting off sin and evil, (not literal physical human beings or people). :)

The Torah is abolished for believers who live by faith.

daqq
July 23rd, 2017, 09:03 PM
You're so annoying.

Your mistake is in thinking that because I have visions and dreams in my testimony that my doctrine is based on those things: it is not, and that is why I have no need to use any of that here. All of my arguments are based in the scripture which I post; which you have foolishly called the doctrines of devils.

Interplanner
July 23rd, 2017, 09:04 PM
Another truth that has been twisted to the extreme is that Adam and Eve and the angels were giants compared to people today. It is estimated that Adam and Eve were upwards of 16 to 18 feet tall which is three times larger than people today. I have been studying creation science for 20 years and the earth prior to the flood had a canopy that enabled people, animals and plant life to grow like nothing we see today. So at the beginning of time man was perfect and since then our ages have shortened and our height and stature has shrunken as well. Basically the exact opposite of evolutionary teaching.





Thanks for the note on giantism (too bad it is not in an evolution thread) but...if I'm not mistaken, your first line says the opposite of the rest of the paragraph. Twisted? You mean denied, I think.

Epoisses
July 23rd, 2017, 09:07 PM
Thanks for the note on giantism (too bad it is not in an evolution thread) but...if I'm not mistaken, your first line says the opposite of the rest of the paragraph. Twisted? You mean denied, I think.

One of my favorite creation scientists is Dr. Carl Baugh who has since retired but still runs the Creation Evidence museum in Glen Rose, Texas.

http://www.creationevidence.org/

freelight
July 23rd, 2017, 09:13 PM
Very true, and those things are found in the Torah and even all of the Tanach, and therefore I hope you do not go down that dualism trail with Marcion, (I saw those comments), for he was a true Gnostic dualist; not that he did not believe in the "Old Testament God", he did, but instead taught that the "Old Testament God" was evil, (the "Demiurge"). I fear for you friend, that direction will remove any foundation you have left for anything you believe. The Torah is spiritual even as Paul says; it has to do with cutting off sin and evil, (not literal physical human beings or people). :)

Marcion is a wonderful character,...just researching his view as a vital part of early Christian theological developments,...and you might know....I'm very eclectic and a 'gnostic' at heart, meaning I value 'gnosis' as being the key to any religious experience, because it is only that which you come to 'know' by personal experience that has any meaning or value! - my former studies in Gnosticism in general are known to veterans here, in former threads such as 'Gnostic Cosmology', and lets not forget our extant thread 'The Gospel of Thomas', which we are still doing commentary on ;)

While in the Marcion vein of things, and being philosophically quite LIBERAL,...you should come to know freelight sails on his own wings,...but its the spirit behind the wind that counts ;) - YES, I do have reservations for some of the portrayals of 'yhwh' in the OT, some quite cruel and merciless, so that many may have been justified to assume the God and Father of Jesus was NOT the 'yhwh' of the OT, so just exploring this POSSIBILITY. My Unitarian musings previously have of course been more in line with your view that YHWH is the 'Heavenly Father' of all,...but putting that on the shelf for a while, while never of course denying that absolute REALITY itself, being what is, since no matter what I believe about IT, it will always BE anyways :) - I'm on a new evolutionary tier,...so enjoying a 'new view' from there.

Interplanner
July 23rd, 2017, 09:23 PM
There is a setting aside of the ritual or ceremonial law now that Christ and the Spirit have come but not core standards and morals. This has nothing to do with gnosticism.

At the center of Messianic teaching is that 'by His (Messiah's) experience, he will justify many.'--Is. 53. So what we really need to know and being talking about is his event, and what justification from sins is. Again, in this sense, the historic Christian faith is not a matter of private, secret knowledge among some adepts.

daqq
July 23rd, 2017, 09:25 PM
The Torah is abolished for believers who live by faith.

Romans 7:25 The Scriptures (2009)
25 Thanks to Elohim, through יהושע Messiah our Master! So then, with the mind I myself truly serve the Torah of Elohim, [which is Horeb and of above] but with the flesh the torah of sin [which is Sinai and of below].

Lol, you cannot even cut off sin from within your members because you abolished the "tools" necessary to do the will of Elohim. And if you do not do the will of Elohim you cannot be sanctified, and you cannot receive the Promise according to the scripture, (Heb 10:36 KJV, 1Thes 4:3).

1 Thessalonians 4:1-8 KJV
1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

Hebrews 10:35-39 KJV
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

You are not so "saved" as you imagine in the machinations of your vain imagination; for you have not yet been tested so as to see whether or not you are worthy of becoming a son of the kingdom. You are just a babe, a suckling, still milking on the Word from Jerusalem of above, the mother covenant of us all, Oh, wait, you have abolished your own mother! LOL, you curse your own covenant-mother! Do you not believe in allegories even when Paul explicitly tells you that he speaks of an allegory? Yes, Jerusalem of above is our mother-COVENANT, and yet you say the "old covenant" is abolished. You do not even have the milk to suckle on: the only option left for you is the sickle of the Reaper. No wonder you are walking dead and about to be pruned from the Vine. And if you want any ideas as to how it all might go down for you, well, I already told you in my testimony! LOL, and yet you scoffed! But who will laugh last? All the holy ones will know whether or not you overcame in your day and hour, O mighty one, or whether you end up the twice dead rotting carcass of a reprobate-castaway fish, (for the kingdom of the heavens is like a net). In the "afterglow days" perhaps you will consider it perfectly; but it will not be a fire to be warmed by. :chuckle:

Lazy afternoon
July 24th, 2017, 12:54 AM
Thanks, my pesky true believer friend! :)



:thumb:

Amen, and the nourishment is ultimately The Word, which is The Testimony of Messiah, which according to the allegories and teachings of his apostles is tantamount and equivalent to his blood because he paid for his Testimony with his own life, (which has been explained to LA both in that closed thread and in several other places). That is why the passages I quoted do not say, "Shall be poured out", or, "Is about to be poured out", no, but rather, "Is being poured out", because it concerns his holy Testimony which is SPIRIT and LIFE. Those who do not wish to DO and WALK his Testimony apparently find it easier to pretend they are drinking human blood or "God-Man" blood, (aka Catholicism and transubstantiation).

Stupidity.

Christ's blood was shed to atone for the sins of men.

Jesus paid the price which no man could.

We who are saved, acknowledge the sacrifice of Christ on our behalf.

LA

Lazy afternoon
July 24th, 2017, 01:00 AM
[COLOR=#000080]

You are not so "saved" as you imagine in the machinations of your vain imagination; for you have not yet been tested so as to see whether or not you are worthy of becoming a son of the kingdom. You are just a babe, a suckling, still milking on the Word from Jerusalem of above, the mother covenant of us all, Oh, wait, you have abolished your own mother! LOL, you curse your own covenant-mother! Do you not believe in allegories even when Paul explicitly tells you that he speaks of an allegory? Yes, Jerusalem of above is our mother-COVENANT, and yet you say the "old covenant" is abolished. You do not even have the milk to suckle on: the only option left for you is the sickle of the Reaper. No wonder you are walking dead and about to be pruned from the Vine. And if you want any ideas as to how it all might go down for you, well, I already told you in my testimony! LOL, and yet you scoffed! But who will laugh last? All the holy ones will know whether or not you overcame in your day and hour, O mighty one, or whether you end up the twice dead rotting carcass of a reprobate-castaway fish, (for the kingdom of the heavens is like a net). In the "afterglow days" perhaps you will consider it perfectly; but it will not be a fire to be warmed by. :chuckle:

Daqq does not believe Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the Torah.

He wants it that the old covenant of law is still in effect and not abolished.

Daqq thinks He can eat and drink of the torah while denying the atoning work of the blood of Christ.

We can tell that he is well practiced in defending his heresy after years of denying Christ in Christian forums.

LA

daqq
July 24th, 2017, 01:48 AM
Stupidity.

Christ's blood was shed to atone for the sins of men.

Jesus paid the price which no man could.

We who are saved, acknowledge the sacrifice of Christ on our behalf.

LA


Daqq does not believe Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the Torah.

He wants it that the old covenant of law is still in effect and not abolished.

Daqq thinks He can eat and drink of the torah while denying the atoning work of the blood of Christ.

We can tell that he is well practiced in defending his heresy after years of denying Christ in Christian forums.

LA

How can you still not understand that calling people stupid, and piling on more accusations, doesn't prove anything except that you think kicking dust into the air will hide your lack of ability to answer? Get back to me when you have incorporated the following statements into your doctrine and you can adequately explain how and why they are true:

John 1:18a ASV
18a No man hath seen God at any time;

1 John 4:12a ASV
12a No man hath beheld God at any time:

Lazy afternoon
July 24th, 2017, 08:21 PM
The penal substitutionary death model of 'blood-atonement' is especially backwards and illogical to true spiritual intelligence, since divine LOVE does not demand bloodshed, but only requires a re-turning to truth, love, integrity, ....a true 'repentance'. This has always been the calling of the prophets, and always will be, since 'repentance' is key to soul-transformation (changing one's mind, thoughts, directives, motives, intentions). Love does no harm, neither does it DEMAND the death of another to 'atone' for sins, since the soul must atone for its own sins by repentance, reparation, and all it can do to make amends thru restitution, while all is ultimately absolved by 'forgiveness'.

Heresy.

LA

daqq
July 24th, 2017, 08:51 PM
Daqq will say almost anything to avoid confessing the shed blood of Christ, as the only means by which men are reconciled to God by faith in.

LA
You cannot handle being forced to confess to what the scripture actually says because you too are word-sorcerer who subverts the scripture to your own means and ends. For the same reason you closed your own call out thread about atonement when you saw that you have no answers for the scripture passages which refute you to your face. :)


Then why are you not burning down my own thread on atonement? What are you afraid of? I have no doubt that if you could actually defend your position you would have already burned down my thread with all of your scripture quotes and commentary. You are the liar and that has already been shown over and over again. Last time you made that accusation I asked you to prove it and of course you could do no such thing. What I have said about you is the truth because I know by experience from the unfortunate verbal exchanges with you here in this forum board. You are not capable of defending what you believe because you exclude the passages you do not wish to accept into your doctrine. You cannot find the truth because you think you already have it while rejecting certain portions of the Word and refusing to force yourself to solve the apparent surface contradictions and discrepancies, which are not contradictions at all, but rather put there intentionally so as to make you work and seek for the kingdom of Elohim, and so as to find out if truly indeed you love Elohim, and His Word, and diligently seek His kingdom. But you apparently are not willing to do those things, so instead you violate, attack, and molest those who do, just as your pal Epoisses the molester of the children of Elohim. Do you think you and Epoisses are never going to have to answer for continually molesting the children of Elohim? :chuckle:


By the way, that was your own call-out thread leveled against @freelight (http://theologyonline.com/member.php?u=1746) and as far as I can tell he has a right to defend his beliefs including posting videos. Have you never posted a video? Ah, yes, you have threads with nothing more than a video in the OP to make your point for the thread. You therefore bear witness against yourself that you are both a hypocrite and a coward because you yourself post videos; and when you posted a call-out thread, naming names and accusations in the OP, you then closed the thread like a coward and would not allow the one you called out to defend himself.

Exactly as I said, LA the coward and hypocrite, for she opened the thread back up for less than twenty four hours, and having returned, and having seen all of the argument that was posted from the scripture, what does she do? Instead of even attempting any answers whatsoever she closes the thread again.
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?123355-Atonement-without-blood-according-to-Freelight/page8

And now, LA, since it is perfectly obvious that you have not even a shred of evidence to support any of your carnal understanding, and since you are incapable of putting up, please do shut up, and desist from all of your false witnessing and lying about myself and the position which I hold from within the confines of the scripture. You do not have any clue what the scripture teaches and therefore it is you who does not have Messiah as he is perfectly portrayed in the Gospel accounts, in all of his TESTIMONY, which you yourself reject.

freelight
July 25th, 2017, 12:52 AM
Heresy.

LA

There are other more rational and sane atonement-models, which I'm also continuing to share in your thread on my 'beliefs' thereon,....and will continue to share more video presentations. There are also non-canonical texts, spirit messages and channeled teachings which also share a rejection of the 'penal substitutionary atonement model' (made popular by Anslem in 11th century). However, the most common atonement-concept in the first millennium of church history was more along the lines of the classic 'Christus Victor' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christus_Victor)understanding within the 'ransom-theory' paradigm, where Jesus death, burial and resurrection liberate man from the influence and power of sin, death, hell and satan, to which man became entangled by his own tendency towards sin. Many are returning back to these original views and having issues with 'penal substitution view' as being immoral, unjust, illogical, etc.

It would help anyone to study the entire field of 'atonement' within church history, its doctrinal developments. - just as there is variety and different views and insights into the definition and function of 'atonement', we each will choose that model that best fits our understanding at any time, continuing to research and learn, and if a genuine truth-seeker...remain open to progressive revelation.

Penal Substition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_substitution)

daqq
July 25th, 2017, 01:42 AM
There are other more rational and sane atonement-models, which I'm also continuing to share in your thread on my 'beliefs' thereon,....and will continue to share more video presentations. There are also non-canonical texts, spirit messages and channeled teachings which also share a rejection of the 'penal substitutionary atonement model' (made popular by Anslem in 11th century). However, the most common atonement-concept in the first millennium of church history was more along the lines of the classic 'Christus Victor' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christus_Victor)understanding within the 'ransom-theory' paradigm, where Jesus death, burial and resurrection liberate man from the influence and power of sin, death, hell and satan, to which man became entangled by his own tendency towards sin. Many are returning back to these original views and having issues with 'penal substitution view' as being immoral, unjust, illogical, etc.

It would help anyone to study the entire field of 'atonement' within church history, its doctrinal developments. - just as there is variety and different views and insights into the definition and function of 'atonement', we each will choose that model that best fits our understanding at any time, continuing to research and learn, and if a genuine truth-seeker...remain open to progressive revelation.

Penal Substition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_substitution)

LA closed that thread again, (see my previous post above herein).

freelight
July 25th, 2017, 03:48 PM
LA closed that thread again, (see my previous post above herein).

That's because we've made a rational, scholarly and logical attempt to bring a more holistic, comprehensive understanding of 'atonement' to the fore, which does NOT require a strict penal substitutionary concept, which is a more later development in church doctrine. 'Atonement' itself is a wonderful and multi-dimensional subject, which can include various facets and features, so that it cannot really be limited to any one narrow dogmatic representation.

Besides the 'Christus Victor' view there is also the 'Moral influence' or 'Example' theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_influence_theory_of_atonement), which sees the atonement as exemplary,...for the Messiah still calls us to walk in the path of righteousness (right doing), to FOLLOW after his example. - all other atonement concepts are theoretical,....while true religion calls for a practical application of the model, into real life experience. Jesus did emphasize DOING the Father's will. Jesus did NOT do it all for us,...He came to SHOW and LEAD the way as well.

daqq
July 25th, 2017, 05:25 PM
That's because we've made a rational, scholarly and logical attempt to bring a more holistic, comprehensive understanding of 'atonement' to the fore, which does NOT require a strict penal substitutionary concept, which is a more later development in church doctrine. 'Atonement' itself is a wonderful and multi-dimensional subject, which can include various facets and features, so that it cannot really be limited to any one narrow dogmatic representation.

Besides the 'Christus Victor' view there is also the 'Moral influence' or 'Example' theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_influence_theory_of_atonement), which sees the atonement as exemplary,...for the Messiah still calls us to walk in the path of righteousness (right doing), to FOLLOW after his example. - all other atonement concepts are theoretical,....while true religion calls for a practical application of the model, into real life experience. Jesus did emphasize DOING the Father's will. Jesus did NOT do it all for us,...He came to SHOW and LEAD the way as well.

"Penal substitution" portrays the Father as an angry vengeful ogre. The Master expounds forgiveness in the "Lord's Prayer", in Matthew 6:8-15, and confirms that teaching again in the parable of Matthew 18:21-35.

Matthew 6:8-15 ASV
8 Be not therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Matthew 18:32-35 ASV
32 Then his lord called him unto him, and saith to him, Thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou besoughtest me:
33 shouldest not thou also have had mercy on thy fellow-servant, even as I had mercy on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due.
35 So shall also my heavenly Father do unto you, if ye forgive not every one his brother from your hearts.

It is as simple as that, no if's, and's, or but's about it, if you want to be forgiven by your heavenly Father then you must forgive others their trespasses against you, period. And this is "the Law of Liberty" which the epistle of James speaks about:

James 2:12-13 ASV
12 So speak ye, and so do, as men that are to be judged by a law of liberty.
13 For judgment is without mercy to him that hath showed no mercy: mercy glorieth against judgment.

Mercy triumphs over judgment because to the one who has shown mercy, mercy shall be shown, but to the one who has shown no mercy, no mercy shall be shown, period. This therefore is indeed the "Law of Liberty" because even when we stumble, (as we immerse into the Torah, see the preceding passage in the James reference), we are forgiven when we make mistakes in understanding the Torah of Elohim, that is, so long as we are forgiving toward others. We therefore have no fear of making an honest mistake when learning the Torah which is the Teaching of the Father. He is not some angry ogre who will exact revenge for every misstep as modern Christianity has portrayed Him, (mainly due to their deep-seated and hidden hatred for the Torah). According to the Master himself, in the "Lord's Prayer" passage quoted above, we are forgiven when we ask; not because some blood was shed, but because we forgive others their trespasses against us. This is the liberty and freedom we have in Messiah and it translates into the ability to walk the Torah in the spiritual way in which it was intended without fear of retribution when we stumble in our learning. The fear has been removed: but for those who judge and do not forgive, (against the clear Testimony of the Messiah), they are already under the law for doing what they do, and they should fear, especially when they run around judging others in forums such as this pretending to have something they clearly do not have.

Lazy afternoon
July 26th, 2017, 12:35 AM
Guys,

Still working your way to Heaven I see.

No amount of self improvement will get you there without recognizing and appreciating what it cost Jesus at the cross of calvary.

If He has not shown you that then it is impossible for you to be saved.

It is more than likely that you can not face your own spiritual death in being crucified with Him.

It is like a bride to be who in counting the cost to her own life in becoming a wife, turns back and devises some excuse to cover her shame.

She loves herself more than Christ.

Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.


LA

daqq
July 26th, 2017, 01:02 AM
Guys,

Still working your way to Heaven I see.

No amount of self improvement will get you there without recognizing and appreciating what it cost Jesus at the cross of calvary.

If He has not shown you that then it is impossible for you to be saved.

It is more than likely that you can not face your own spiritual death in being crucified with Him.

It is like a bride to be who in counting the cost to her own life in becoming a wife, turns back and devises some excuse to cover her shame.

She loves herself more than Christ.

Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.


LA

Quoting scripture without any understanding of what it means, as you do, is meaningless and pointless. Jerusalem of above is our mother-covenant. That means the daughter of Jerusalem is the allegorical new covenant. The Master already has "the bride" when he enters into Jerusalem on "Palm Sunday", just as the Gospel of Matthew states, (for the prophecy of Zec 9:9 was fulfilled in that occasion). Likewise Yohanan the Immerser tells you that the Master had the bride given to him from the heavens, from above, (John 3:27-36). You are not a bride except in your own vain imagination because you do not understand the scripture even though these things also have already been explained to you before, (and I see no reason to go over it all again in depth with you in this thread). He was not ashamed to call those willing to become sanctified his BRETHREN, not his bride. You therefore must become a son; and therefore I suggest, again, that you stop seeing everything through the eyes and mind of the flesh and carnal outward man. As for being crucified with Messiah you cannot do it because you do not understand or believe his parables which show you how to do it, (which Paul often expounds though most are not even aware).

Lazy afternoon
July 26th, 2017, 01:11 AM
As for being crucified with Messiah you cannot do it because you do not understand or believe his parables which show you how to do it, (which Paul often expounds though most are not even aware).

As the reader can see, you are trying to do something yourself which Christ has done for the saved, by effecting the atonement on His cross.

not yours.

Keep working in unbelief.

LA

daqq
July 26th, 2017, 01:35 AM
As the reader can see, you are trying to do something yourself which Christ has done for the saved, by effecting the atonement on His cross.

not yours.

Keep working in unbelief.

LA

As the reader can see, LA has no clue what being crucified with Messiah means, and neither does she understand his parables and teachings: for he nowhere tells anyone that he is going to cut off their right hand, or foot, or pluck out their evil eye for them. For the same reason LA cannot contain her lying tongue which is kindled by the fire of Gehenna according to Yaakob. :chuckle:

Lazy afternoon
July 26th, 2017, 04:02 PM
As the reader can see, LA has no clue what being crucified with Messiah means, and neither does she understand his parables and teachings: for he nowhere tells anyone that he is going to cut off their right hand, or foot, or pluck out their evil eye for them. For the same reason LA cannot contain her lying tongue which is kindled by the fire of Gehenna according to Yaakob. :chuckle:

Jesus was instructing the believers who were justified by Jesus blood.

You are not.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

LA

daqq
July 26th, 2017, 05:24 PM
Jesus was instructing the believers who were justified by Jesus blood.

You are not.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

LA

Again you are just making your own judgment and tossing in a false accusation based on your own faulty judgment, which means your accusation is a lie, because I have already explained much of my atonement beliefs to you from the scripture. I have never denied the atonement of Messiah, not even the atonement of his blood, but I have proven to you from the scripture what his blood is and you do not believe it. That is not my problem but it does not make me a denier of the atonement of Messiah. However, since you deny the Testimony of Messiah that has been quoted to you many times over, and especially in your own thread on atonement, you therefore trample the blood of Messiah which is his Testimony which is the Spirit of Grace. You also trample his blood every time you falsely judge me and then lie about me even after I have explained my position to you with and from the scripture many times; for the Messiah plainly tells you not to judge, lest you be judged. Your unbelief has blinded you and that is proven and shown by your refusal to answer what has already been presented already here in this thread, and by your cowardly shutting down your own call out thread so that you do not have to answer your own accusations therein, or answer to the scripture that is posted therein. Your accusations are already proven long ago to be lies. You only seek to justify yourself and your beliefs at my expense: for you deny that "Jesus was God" before Calvary and say that he was 100% man. Therefore you need his blood to be understood the way your carnal mind demands. You are a theoretical cannibal teaching theoretical cannibalism. God is not a man. No one has seen or beheld God at any time.

Epoisses
July 26th, 2017, 06:16 PM
Guys,

Still working your way to Heaven I see.

No amount of self improvement will get you there without recognizing and appreciating what it cost Jesus at the cross of calvary.

If He has not shown you that then it is impossible for you to be saved.

It is more than likely that you can not face your own spiritual death in being crucified with Him.

It is like a bride to be who in counting the cost to her own life in becoming a wife, turns back and devises some excuse to cover her shame.

She loves herself more than Christ.

Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.


LA

Amen. Daqq is the ultimate self-improvement Tony Robbins guru and so are most pastors nowadays.

daqq
July 26th, 2017, 08:40 PM
Amen. Daqq is the ultimate self-improvement Tony Robbins guru and so are most pastors nowadays.

The Testimony of the Messiah whom you claim to know and worship is what delivers you and makes you pleasing to the Father, but you have to be willing to live, walk, and abide in that holy Testimony, which means to take up your own stake and crucify the old man of the flesh mindset: and if not, then you are not his because you do not have his Testimony-Word abiding in you, and you then are nothing more than a fraudulent "namer and claimer" pretending to know the Messiah, one who claims to be something they do not even truly understand what it means to be. It is as simple as that, and you, like LA, have denied the Testimony of the Messiah on many occasions already, and you also blasphemed my heavenly Father by saying I believe and teach doctrines of devils when I said what I said from the scripture with scripture.

freelight
July 26th, 2017, 08:41 PM
Amen. Daqq is the ultimate self-improvement Tony Robbins guru and so are most pastors nowadays.

Faith without works is dead.

Jesus said those who DO the will of God shall enter into the kingdom.

A tree is known by its fruit.

daqq
July 26th, 2017, 08:55 PM
Faith without works is dead.

Jesus said those who DO the will of God shall enter into the kingdom.

A tree is known by its fruit.

Amen, and the scripture tells us what is "the will of Elohim", and that is to cut off sin from ourselves and our own "members", the "members of our own households", which accusers of the brethren refuse to do because when they accuse, and especially falsely, they show that they themselves are being convicted of their evil deeds by what others have said from the scripture. And without doing the will of Elohim one can neither become sanctified nor receive the Promise:

Hebrews 10:35-39 KJV
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

1 Thessalonians 4:1-8 KJV
1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

They despise Elohim in their very own words, deeds, and false accusations right here before all, boasting themselves to already have been "saved" while not having any clue what that really even means because their preachers and teachers, which they have heaped to themselves and their itching ears, have lied to them.

Epoisses
July 26th, 2017, 08:56 PM
Faith without works is dead.

Jesus said those who DO the will of God shall enter into the kingdom.

A tree is known by its fruit.

Works without faith are dead and those are all that Daqq the alien has!

Epoisses
July 26th, 2017, 08:58 PM
Amen, and the scripture tells us what is "the will of Elohim", and that is to cut off sin from ourselves and our own "members", the "members of our own households", which accusers of the brethren refuse to do because when they accuse, and especially falsely, they show that they themselves are being convicted of their evil deeds by what others have said from the scripture. And without doing the will of Elohim one can neither become sanctified nor receive the Promise:

Hebrews 10:35-39 KJV
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

1 Thessalonians 4:1-8 KJV
1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

They despise Elohim in their very own words, deeds, and false accusations right here before all, boasting themselves to already have been "saved" while not having any clue what that really even means because their preachers and teachers, which they have heaped to themselves and their itching ears, have lied to them.

Daqq is cutoff from grace and everyone knows it except him!

Epoisses
July 26th, 2017, 08:59 PM
People like Daqq always derail a perfectly good thread. At least Northwye can communicate coherently.

daqq
July 26th, 2017, 09:01 PM
Daqq is cutoff from grace and everyone knows it except him!

Again, the Testimony of the Messiah is the Spirit of Grace, Heb 10:29, and you trample his Testimony and therefore you trample his blood and the Spirit of Grace.

daqq
July 26th, 2017, 09:07 PM
People like Daqq always derail a perfectly good thread. At least Northwye can communicate coherently.

Nope, false accusers such as you and LA are always the ones who derail threads because you make the conversation into personal assaults by way of your judging others in opposition to the Testimony of the Messiah whom you claim to know and worship. If you claim he is God, and you claim to worship him, then why do you not believe and do what he says? Why do you continually trample his Testimony which is the Spirit of Grace? He plainly tells you that his WORDS are SPIRIT and LIFE: so why do you not heed the words of the one whom you claim to worship as God? The only legitimate answer is that you are a fraud claiming to be something you are not and claiming to know and understand things which you have no clue about, for as Freelight said when he quoted scripture: the tree is known by its fruit, and your fruit is evil.

Epoisses
July 26th, 2017, 09:10 PM
This thread is about the temple Daqq, can't you read?

freelight
July 26th, 2017, 09:10 PM
Amen, and the scripture tells us what is "the will of Elohim", and that is to cut off sin from ourselves and our own "members", the "members of our own households", which accusers of the brethren refuse to do because when they accuse, and especially falsely, they show that they themselves are being convicted of their evil deeds by what others have said from the scripture. And without doing the will of Elohim one can neither become sanctified nor receive the Promise:

Hebrews 10:35-39 KJV
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

1 Thessalonians 4:1-8 KJV
1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

They despise Elohim in their very own words, deeds, and false accusations right here before all, boasting themselves to already have been "saved" while not having any clue what that really even means because their preachers and teachers, which they have heaped to themselves and their itching ears, have lied to them.

Its sad that some think God does everything for them....for that would negate self-responsibility, free will and learning (which includes 'earning'). It would be satans delight to maintain such a belief system....by which the soul sabotages itself.

Epoisses
July 26th, 2017, 09:15 PM
Its sad that some think God does everything for them....for that would negate self-responsibility, free will and learning (which includes 'earning'). It would be satans delight to maintain such a belief system....by which the soul sabotages itself.

Earning is what the world teaches, Freelight. Christianity is not the same! Work hard and make something of yourself, Freelight. You don't need Christ just believe in yourself. Ever hear those lies before?

daqq
July 26th, 2017, 09:19 PM
This thread is about the temple Daqq, can't you read?

And you are the temple of Elohim; can you not read? Go back and see what I was speaking about when you and LA started making false accusations and judgements: I was on-topic, but you trample the Testimony of Messiah in your own temple, not truly believing that you are the temple of Elohim. And why? because you imagine yourself as the master of your own temple, and no one, not even the scripture, is going to tell you how to live your life and what to do with and in your private little sanctuary-temple. You therefore do not even truly believe Paul when he tells you that you are purchased with a price and are no more your own; for if indeed you truly believed that, you would not be doing what you are doing here, blaspheming, mocking and ridiculing others, and bearing false witness against one who has been quoting the scripture you claim to know and love. When you spew out evil speaking, blasphemies, murders, and death, you reveal what is truly in your own heart, for whatsoever comes forth from the mouth proceeds from the heart, and the tree is known by its fruit. You defile the temple of Elohim.

Epoisses
July 26th, 2017, 09:22 PM
No, it's about the destruction of a physical temple in 70AD. You still can't read!

daqq
July 26th, 2017, 09:24 PM
Its sad that some think God does everything for them....for that would negate self-responsibility, free will and learning (which includes 'earning'). It would be satans delight to maintain such a belief system....by which the soul sabotages itself.

That is so true I quote it to bump it up to the new page; and that is exactly what their doctrine does, sabotage themselves, while they imagine that it releases them and makes them free, (free from things they do not want to do, like cutting off sin, so as to become pleasing to the Father).

freelight
July 26th, 2017, 09:24 PM
The principle of 'earning' is taught and honored in the scriptures.

daqq
July 26th, 2017, 09:25 PM
No, it's about the destruction of a physical temple in 70AD. You still can't read!

So get back on-topic then and stop casting false accusations and bearing false witness.

Epoisses
July 26th, 2017, 09:26 PM
The principle of 'earning' is taught and honored in the scriptures.

So get to work then and earn it. Follow your faith and conscience, God honors that.

Epoisses
July 26th, 2017, 09:28 PM
So get back on-topic then and stop casting false accusations and bearing false witness.

Get back on your UFO and fly to never, never land.

freelight
July 26th, 2017, 09:31 PM
So get to work then and earn it then. Follow your faith and conscience, God honors that.

I aspire towards right-doing and right-living, as my conscience and God so wills it. God has also given the opportunity of earning, whereby one's actions are rewarded....most certainly.

freelight
July 26th, 2017, 09:35 PM
Get back on your UFO and fly to never, never land.

daqq as far as I know has not expressed a belief in ufos silly so why this?

Epoisses
July 26th, 2017, 09:36 PM
I aspire towards right-doing and right-living, as my conscience and God so wills it. God has also given the opportunity of earning, whereby one's actions are rewarded....most certainly.

God only rewards one thing Freelight! He rewards those who have Christ formed within. No Christ means no reward no matter how much right-doing and right-living you perform. Pretty much everyone nowadays tries to live right and do right and even eat right!

daqq
July 26th, 2017, 09:53 PM
No, it's about the destruction of a physical temple in 70AD. You still can't read!


So get back on-topic then and stop casting false accusations and bearing false witness.


Get back on your UFO and fly to never, never land.

Everyone can see that you are not even capable of speaking about the topic, and are rather only here to level accusations, ridicule, mock, and disrupt the thread. How can you not know that those who level constant accusations and judgments against others are generally the most guilty of exactly what they accuse others of doing or being?

Lazy afternoon
July 27th, 2017, 06:05 PM
Again, the Testimony of the Messiah is the Spirit of Grace, Heb 10:29, and you trample his Testimony and therefore you trample his blood and the Spirit of Grace.

There we have it.

You try to remove the atoning work of the blood of Christ, by claiming it refers to the Testimony.

You can not live off the tree of life without first acknowledging the price Christ paid to redeem you.

Your error is obvious to the saved.

Your views are the very teachings which the unsaved Judaisers hold to, who are the very ones polluting the sanctuary of strength today.


LA

Epoisses
July 27th, 2017, 07:33 PM
There we have it.

You try to remove the atoning work of the blood of Christ, by claiming it refers to the Testimony.

You can not live off the tree of life without first acknowledging the price Christ paid to redeem you.

Your error is obvious to the saved.

Your views are the very teachings which the unsaved Judaisers hold to, who are the very ones polluting the sanctuary of strength today.


LA

I've debated law keepers for 20 years and if there is one thing that I have learned you can't be weak and always have to defend the truth of the gospel. But you won't convert them by argument because they don't believe so your words are just foolishness to them. Only the Holy Spirit can break the spell over their minds and only one out of a thousand will ever be converted. But that one who is converted will have the faith of the apostle Paul.

Zeke
July 27th, 2017, 08:01 PM
The "seed" of David in Psalm 89: 4 is his spiritual seed, as is the promise of the seed from Abraham also being his spiritual seed,.

North: in these cases and Christ there is a physical descendant that is traceable to the period in which they lived. But after that, it is their faith that matters. A person who has their faith can enjoy the fact that they had that physical descendancy at one point, but it does not matter downstream. Now the connection is by faith.

Not really, even scholars from Israel say the Exodus can't be substantiated, so the rest of the historic claims of flesh and blood genealogies are not historic people but states of conscience every divine seed must incarnate and experience before the need to incarnate is fulfilled. The Divine wears all masks from task master to loving Father which we are part of.

daqq
July 27th, 2017, 11:22 PM
There we have it.

You try to remove the atoning work of the blood of Christ, by claiming it refers to the Testimony.

You can not live off the tree of life without first acknowledging the price Christ paid to redeem you.

Your error is obvious to the saved.

Your views are the very teachings which the unsaved Judaisers hold to, who are the very ones polluting the sanctuary of strength today.


LA


I've debated law keepers for 20 years and if there is one thing that I have learned you can't be weak and always have to defend the truth of the gospel. But you won't convert them by argument because they don't believe so your words are just foolishness to them. Only the Holy Spirit can break the spell over their minds and only one out of a thousand will ever be converted. But that one who is converted will have the faith of the apostle Paul.

Both of you are Messiah deniers because you deny his holy Testimony and trample it with your false doctrines which you exalt over his words. That has already been proven, and especially to LA in her own thread, already linked herein, which LA opened up for less than twenty-four hours after it was mentioned herein, and then immediately closed it again after having returned the next day and having seen all of the scripture posted therein which utterly refutes her false atonement theory based in the flesh mindset which even Paul condemns. Keep walking according to the flesh mindset and according to the carnal man, who walks according to his belly just as the serpent was cursed to do from the beginning, and just as Paul says, you will die.

daqq
July 27th, 2017, 11:27 PM
I aspire towards right-doing and right-living, as my conscience and God so wills it. God has also given the opportunity of earning, whereby one's actions are rewarded....most certainly.

And the rewards are great in the kingdom of Elohim; but when you bring forth things both new and old from your treasury, in a place such as this full of offspring of vipers, they gnash their teeth for all the sour grapes they have been eating, for their teeth are already set on edge. :chuckle:

Epoisses
July 28th, 2017, 06:54 AM
Both of you are Messiah deniers because you deny his holy Testimony and trample it with your false doctrines which you exalt over his words. That has already been proven, and especially to LA in her own thread, already linked herein, which LA opened up for less than twenty-four hours after it was mentioned herein, and then immediately closed it again after having returned the next day and having seen all of the scripture posted therein which utterly refutes her false atonement theory based in the flesh mindset which even Paul condemns. Keep walking according to the flesh mindset and according to the carnal man, who walks according to his belly just as the serpent was cursed to do from the beginning, and just as Paul says, you will die.

Maybe he doesn't want to wade thru your trash posts - I don't blame him. Torah advocates should have their own forum. They don't believe the gospel so why even come here - just to spread dissension.

daqq
July 28th, 2017, 07:47 AM
Maybe he doesn't want to wade thru your trash posts - I don't blame him. Torah advocates should have their own forum. They don't believe the gospel so why even come here - just to spread dissension.

Nope, you and yours are the ones who spread dissension every time you deny the Testimony of the Messiah whom you claim to know, love, and even worship:

Matthew 5:16-22 HNV
16 Even so, let your light shine before men; that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
17 "Don't think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill.
18 For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the Torah, until all things are accomplished.
19 Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least mitzvot, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Perushim, there is no way you will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
21 "You have heard that it was said to the ancient ones, 'You shall not murder;' and 'Whoever shall murder shall be in danger of the judgment.'
22 But I tell you, that everyone who is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment; and whoever shall say to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing!' shall be in danger of the council; and whoever shall say, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of the fire of Gehinnom.

You have trampled just about all of these statements just in your conversations with me in the past week or so; and you do not even care, for you have invented your own imaginary replacement "kingdom of heaven", which does not include the Testimony of the Messiah, and actually consists of nothing more than lawless machinations based on your misinterpretations of the writings of Paul. Look in the mirror: it is you who are not what you claim, and it is you who are the Messiah denier because you apparently do not even believe that his words and statements in the Gospel accounts apply to yourself. Your righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees and Scribes, and that means it must come from inside of you, and therefore it must BE inside of you: why therefore do you only spew death and evil speaking all the day long? Why do you continually tell lies about others? knowing that you are bearing false witness even after they have told you that what you are accusing them of saying or believing is not true?

PS ~ Besides all that, this is the RELIGION board, and you already have the ECT board which is more strictly set aside for "Exclusive Christian Theology", (but seems to be overrun with MADist theology, lol). You are so lost you do not even realize what board you are posting in. Moreover freedom of speech is one of the founding principles of this nation. You are so lost you do not even know what country you are in. Are you a Canadian? or a French Fry? What is that creepy dessert in your avatar? Cheese Cake? or is it just some creepy looking cheese you are fond of?

Right Divider
July 28th, 2017, 09:56 AM
I believe a large part of this "strong delusion" is Dispensationalism, that has been wrongly and widely adopted in recent history by religionists who oppose the Apostolic, NT, and orthodox Gospel message.
Poor confused Nang falsely accuses believers. Shame on you Nang.

Epoisses
July 28th, 2017, 01:29 PM
Nope, you and yours are the ones who spread dissension every time you deny the Testimony of the Messiah whom you claim to know, love, and even worship:

Matthew 5:16-22 HNV
16 Even so, let your light shine before men; that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
17 "Don't think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill.
18 For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the Torah, until all things are accomplished.
19 Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least mitzvot, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Perushim, there is no way you will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
21 "You have heard that it was said to the ancient ones, 'You shall not murder;' and 'Whoever shall murder shall be in danger of the judgment.'
22 But I tell you, that everyone who is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment; and whoever shall say to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing!' shall be in danger of the council; and whoever shall say, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of the fire of Gehinnom.

You have trampled just about all of these statements just in your conversations with me in the past week or so; and you do not even care, for you have invented your own imaginary replacement "kingdom of heaven", which does not include the Testimony of the Messiah, and actually consists of nothing more than lawless machinations based on your misinterpretations of the writings of Paul. Look in the mirror: it is you who are not what you claim, and it is you who are the Messiah denier because you apparently do not even believe that his words and statements in the Gospel accounts apply to yourself. Your righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees and Scribes, and that means it must come from inside of you, and therefore it must BE inside of you: why therefore do you only spew death and evil speaking all the day long? Why do you continually tell lies about others? knowing that you are bearing false witness even after they have told you that what you are accusing them of saying or believing is not true?

PS ~ Besides all that, this is the RELIGION board, and you already have the ECT board which is more strictly set aside for "Exclusive Christian Theology", (but seems to be overrun with MADist theology, lol). You are so lost you do not even realize what board you are posting in. Moreover freedom of speech is one of the founding principles of this nation. You are so lost you do not even know what country you are in. Are you a Canadian? or a French Fry? What is that creepy dessert in your avatar? Cheese Cake? or is it just some creepy looking cheese you are fond of?

I think I angered the Diva!

Epoisses
July 28th, 2017, 01:31 PM
Poor confused Nang falsely accuses believers. Shame on you Nang.

Nang is right for once, Dispensationalism is the scourge of Christianity. They are single handedly responsible for turning Christians into Messianic Jews like Daqq the deceiver.

Right Divider
July 28th, 2017, 01:32 PM
Nang is right for once, Dispensationalism is the scourge of Christianity. They are single handedly responsible for turning Christians into Messianic Jews like Daqq the deceiver.
More false accusations. Shame on you liars.

Epoisses
July 28th, 2017, 01:40 PM
More false accusations. Shame on you liars.

Hide your head in the sand and pretend everything is OK. The worst lies are the ones handed down so you grow up believing them and don't even know why.

Right Divider
July 28th, 2017, 01:47 PM
Hide your head in the sand and pretend everything is OK. The worst lies are the ones handed down so you grow up believing them and don't even know why.
Hogwash through and through.

Dispensationalists simply accept what God is dispensing at any point in history.

Keep up with your FALSE accusations Mr. "Christian".

Epoisses
July 28th, 2017, 04:07 PM
Hogwash through and through.

Dispensationalists simply accept what God is dispensing at any point in history.

Keep up with your FALSE accusations Mr. "Christian".

You people will condemn Calvin, White, Smith, Russell and the likes as false prophets but never have the guts to admit that Darby is at the very top of that list. Your beliefs don't come from the bible they come from him where every mention of Israel is always ethnic and of the flesh. Israel of the Spirit or the Israel of God are designations for born-again believers who have circumcised hearts. You have to have the Holy Spirit be a member of the house of God.

Lazy afternoon
July 28th, 2017, 05:16 PM
Both of you are Messiah deniers because you deny his holy Testimony and trample it with your false doctrines which you exalt over his words. That has already been proven, and especially to LA in her own thread, already linked herein, which LA opened up for less than twenty-four hours after it was mentioned herein, and then immediately closed it again after having returned the next day and having seen all of the scripture posted therein which utterly refutes her false atonement theory based in the flesh mindset which even Paul condemns. Keep walking according to the flesh mindset and according to the carnal man, who walks according to his belly just as the serpent was cursed to do from the beginning, and just as Paul says, you will die.

You never proved the Cross of Christ was not necessary to atone for sin.

You replaced it with your own ideas.

LA

daqq
July 28th, 2017, 08:17 PM
Nang is right for once, Dispensationalism is the scourge of Christianity. They are single handedly responsible for turning Christians into Messianic Jews like Daqq the deceiver.

You are just as much a Dispy as those you rail against. The following is true, which was posted to you in this thread, and you have nothing to say against it because you know it is true: and this by the way is actually where you decided to derail the thread, because you have no answer for it and it shows your theories to be utterly carnal minded and misguided:



http://theologyonline.com/images/metro/blue/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Epoisses http://theologyonline.com/images/metro/blue/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?p=5069032#post5069032)
Half of the people on this forum advocate Law or Torah worship in some form so yes the antichrist will physically make an appearance, order the restoration of Jerusalem and the temple and then force the entire world back under the Law of Moses. It's coming whether you hide your head in the sand or not.


Why do you pay no attention to what was just said to you, (again)?
Your flesh-minded interpretation is calling Paul a liar.

If you say there are any prophetic statements from the Apostolic writings which have never yet come to pass then it simply means that your version of the Messiah, (because of Matthew 24 and Mark 13), and your version of Paul, (because of passages like 1Cor 15:51-58, 1Thes 4:15-18, and 2Thes 2:1-12), and your version of the author of the Apocalypse do not comply with the Torah; and therefore your version of them all, including the Messiah, are false prophets whom we are not to heed or fear, (Deut 18:15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22). You are teaching and believing in a false Messiah who violates the Torah by way of your misunderstanding of spiritual things. The Gospel is to each in his or her own appointed times, times appointed of the Father, a day and hour which no one but the Father knows. To say that such things never happened to those to whom the authors wrote, (such as even those to whom Paul wrote), is a complete misunderstanding of holy and spiritual teachings in holy and spiritual writings. Do you suppose the Thessalonians were keeping a watchful eye on the literal physical temple in Jerusalem from almost a thousand miles away across the Mediterranean Sea? They did not have Wailing-Wall webcams, satellites, television, computers, ipads, iphones, telephones, or even electricity in those days. It is not that such things are not future, but that they happen to all true disciples of the Messiah in the times appointed of the Father, (when a child becomes a son, Gal 4:1-2), and they are therefore future as pertaining to you in your own appointed times; and truth be told, your apocalypse will not likely be televised.

Ah, yes of course, and the Thessalonians were supposed to be watching for "the man of sin to be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped, so that he as God sits in the temple of God shewing himself that he is God." And of course, according to your literal-physical material world minded theory, the Thessalonians were supposed to be watching for this to happen in the literal physical temple-building made with hands of men, in the literal physical city of Jerusalem of below, from more than 800 miles away across the Aegean and Mediterranean Sea; without TV, satellites, cell phones, computers, the internet, a telescope, a pair of binoculars, or even electricity! Meanwhile they were right there in the heart of Yavan! (Greece, or as the KJV says in Daniel 8:21, "Grecia", lol).


https://ed18c523-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/elaiasindex/seven-churches.GIF


And of course, according to you Paul lied because it never happened for any of them because it was not an individual event, so they had to wait for your "final generation" to come along. Too bad they could not live two thousand years to see what you might get to see!

daqq
July 28th, 2017, 08:23 PM
You never proved the Cross of Christ was not necessary to atone for sin.

You replaced it with your own ideas.

LA

Iggy, not worth entertaining, start another thread if you desire to prove what you say. Oh yeah, wait, you already did that, and then you closed it like a coward in the face of all the scripture that refutes you to your face! :rotfl:

Epoisses
July 28th, 2017, 08:52 PM
You are just as much a Dispy as those you rail against. The following is true, which was posted to you in this thread, and you have nothing to say against it because you know it is true: and this by the way is actually where you decided to derail the thread, because you have no answer for it and it shows your theories to be utterly carnal minded and misguided:

How am I a Dispy when I advocate an Israel of God or a spiritual Israel? That's the highest sin on their side of the fence.

daqq
July 28th, 2017, 09:18 PM
How am I a Dispy when I advocate an Israel of God or a spiritual Israel? That's the highest sin on their side of the fence.

From your own thread in your own words where you rail against Dispensationalism and then proceed to expound your own corrupt and perverted view of extreme Dispensationalism, which I will place in bold red highlighting:


Antichrist - devil / specialty - false messiah / spell power - 100
Man of sin - little horn / specialty - high priest / spell power - 75
Pope - emperor class wizard / specialty - works, Mary / spell power - 50
Talmud - emperor class wizard / specialty - fairy tales / spell power - 40
John Calvin - senator class wizard / specialty - false election / spell power - 30
Jacob Arminius - senator class wizard / specialty - free will / spell power - 20
Ellen White - master sorceress / specialty - Sabbath, visions / spell power - 10
John Darby - master wizard / specialty - Israel, prophecy / spell power - 10
Joseph Smith - master wizard / specialty - visions, polygamy / spell power - 9
Charles Russell- master wizard / specialty - Nephilim, prophecy / spell power - 9
Pat Robertson - wizard / specialty - Dispy clan, Israel / spell power - 8
John Hagee - wizard / specialty - Dispy clan, prophecy / spell power - 8
Tim Lahaye - wizard / specialty - fictional prophecy / spell power - 8
L Ron Hubbard - wizard / specialty - fictional prophecy / spell power - 8
Chair - warlock / specialty - Torah / spell power - 7
Daqq - necromancer / specialty - UFOs, visions / spell power - 6
Jamie - sr. apprentice / specialty - Torah for gentiles / spell power - 5
Zeke - jr. apprentice / specialty - Dispy clan, prophecy / spell power - 4
Keypurr - jr. apprentice / specialty - Sabbath clan, prophecy / spell power - 4
CherubRam - rookie / specialty - Sabbath, prophecy / spell power - 2
Jacob - rookie / specialty - Torah for gentiles / spell power - 1

The two top dogs have been added to the list: Antichrist and his right hand man of sin. The antichrist is Satan himself who will appear at the end as the conquering king the Jews have been waiting their whole existence for. He will conquer the world with his fallen angels and then command that Israel and Jerusalem be exalted above all the nations of earth. He will rebuild the temple and then choose from the Jewish people a high priest to officiate over it's blasphemous services. This high priest or man of sin or little horn from Daniel will be given unlimited power and all those who refuse to keep the law and give up the gospel will be put to death. The antichrist will also use the final pope to rule the Gentiles. So there will be three rulers in the end-time: Antichrist as the false messiah or false christ / Man of sin or the high priest of the tribulation temple / Final Pope as the false prophet of the Gentiles.

Do you even know what Dispensationalism is? You are railing against it while teaching pure Dispensationalism which you yourself stole from the Dispensationalists. And that appears to be what you do in just about everything you say and do, O hypocrite Perushiin, (666), judge. :chuckle:

And that is because you see the kingdom of Elohim as physical, and outside of yourself, in direct opposition to the Testimony of the Messiah in Luke 17:20,21, Matthew 24:23,24,25,26,27, and Mark 13:21,22,23, for the kingdom of Elohim does not come with the ocular-visual observation of your eyes of the flesh, for the kingdom of Elohim is within you: neither shall they say, "Look, there it is over there!", or "Look, here it is over here!"

You therefore reject the Testimony of the Messiah once again, but another has come in his own name, and him you have received into your house because you did not test the spirits by the Word and Testimony of the Messiah whom you claim to know and even worship.

Epoisses
July 28th, 2017, 09:22 PM
From your own thread in your own words where you rail against Dispensationalism and then proceed to expound your own corrupt and perverted view of extreme Dispensationalism, which I will place in bold red highlighting:

Dispensationalists reject spiritual Israel you brain-dead moron!

daqq
July 28th, 2017, 09:47 PM
Dispensationalists reject spiritual Israel you brain-dead moron!

There you go again disrespecting the Testimony of the one you claim to be Almighty God whom you supposedly claim to worship. You take the name of the Father in vain when you speak against the Testimony of the Master as you do; for when you disrespect the Testimony of the Messiah and trample it, you trample his very blood, because it is the Spirit of Grace which is the Testimony, and he plainly tells you that his words are SPIRIT and LIFE, (this is the very same thing LA, Nang, and the like-minded such as yourself cannot grasp, and why you all keep blaspheming the Messiah with your deeds and words). And when you claim the name of Messiah, and claim to represent the Almighty Father, and then proceed to go about disrespecting the Testimony of His Son in the Gospel accounts, calling another believer a "brain-dead moron", (which is no different from "raca" or "fool", which is moros in Matthew 5:22, and exactly where "moron" comes from), you blatantly and openly take the name of the Father in vain because you disrespect and trample the Word, His Son.

Matthew 5:22 KJV
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, [G3474 μωρός] shall be in danger of hell fire.

G3474 μωρός moros (mō-ros') adj.
1. dull-witted, foolish, mentally slow (as if shut up), i.e. heedless.
2. (apparently) absurd.
[probably from the base of G3466]
KJV: fool(-ish, X -ishness)

You are a blasphemer and denier of the Testimony of Messiah: and every time you trample his holy Testimony, you, like LA and Nang, trample his blood, and trample the Spirit of Grace, (and since Nang is running around thanking LA for her blasphemies it is apparent that Nang also agrees that it is good to trample the Spirit of Grace so as to try to silence perceived enemies on an internet forum board where no one actually knows anyone else they argue with, lol, what a bunch of hypocrites and imposters).

daqq
July 28th, 2017, 10:46 PM
Dispensationalists reject spiritual Israel you brain-dead moron!

Your following comments are pure hardcore fundamentalist literal-physical futurist DISPENSATIONALIST teachings whether you know it or not, or whether you are willing to admit it or not. The typical Zionist may or may not agree with you about whether the "Antichrist" will be Jewish or not; but aside from that, everything else you have said, all of the basic principles and understanding, comes straight from hardcore Dispensationalist, literalist, futurist, one-time-only, prophetic fulfillment teachings; even straight out of "The Late Great Planet Earth" written by the modern father of, (the rebirth of), Dispensationalism, Hal Lindsey.


http://theologyonline.com/images/metro/blue/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Epoisses http://theologyonline.com/images/metro/blue/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?p=5071909#post5071909)

Antichrist and his right hand man of sin. The antichrist is Satan himself who will appear at the end as the conquering king the Jews have been waiting their whole existence for. He will conquer the world with his fallen angels and then command that Israel and Jerusalem be exalted above all the nations of earth. He will rebuild the temple and then choose from the Jewish people a high priest to officiate over it's blasphemous services. This high priest or man of sin or little horn from Daniel will be given unlimited power and all those who refuse to keep the law and give up the gospel will be put to death. The antichrist will also use the final pope to rule the Gentiles. So there will be three rulers in the end-time: Antichrist as the false messiah or false christ / Man of sin or the high priest of the tribulation temple / Final Pope as the false prophet of the Gentiles.


Lol, and you especially gave yourself away by the words, "the tribulation temple" . . . :chuckle:

Lazy afternoon
July 28th, 2017, 11:42 PM
Iggy, not worth entertaining, start another thread if you desire to prove what you say. Oh yeah, wait, you already did that, and then you closed it like a coward in the face of all the scripture that refutes you to your face! :rotfl:

You will say almost anything to avoid confessing the blood of Christ is necessary to atone for sin.

LA

daqq
July 29th, 2017, 12:08 AM
You will say almost anything to avoid confessing the blood of Christ is necessary to atone for sin.

LA

That is nothing more than another lie. Why can you not understand what I say?

The blood of Messiah is necessary to atone for sin. You must have it within and without, and this testimony goes all the way back to the Ark of Noah which was pitched within and without with red pitch-tar, (which is of course symbolism), and Moses uses the same words to describe those things which are also used for atonement later in the Torah. The same is true of the ark of bulrushes which Moses himself was placed in when his mother set him in the Nile: it was pitched with bitumen and pitch. This atonement-covering process and teaching runs through the scripture, which is yet even more, over and above what was already posted in your closed thread, which you fail to incorporate in your false atonement theory. If therefore you do not have the Word within you, then you are not his, and you have no atonement because you do not have and hold the Testimony of the Messiah in uprightness and truth. The Testimony is everything, including the blood of Messiah, which is the Spirit of Grace, for just as he plainly tells you: his Testimony is SPIRIT and LIFE.

Why can you not grasp or fathom such things? It is because you do not have the Logos-Reasoning of the Word of the Father within you. And therefore you do not have true atonement because you allocate the POWER of the Testimony to the physical natural blood of a human being which you imagine covers your sins inside and out. If the physical natural blood of animals cannot cover and atone for your sins according to the scripture then what makes you think that the physical natural blood of a human being can make that difference? especially when you actually have no way to apply that physical natural human blood because it is long gone and nowhere to be found? You have doomed yourself by your own carnal interpretations of carnal logic. You are a theoretical cannibal teaching theoretical cannibalism and telling lies about me because I do not accept your understanding which according to your own theory is physical natural human blood, covering you inside and out, and supposedly atoning for your sins. You are a heathen of heathens because you refuse to heed the warning of Paul and walk according to the SPIRIT.

PS ~ And why do you continue to disrupt this thread with these off-topic things when you have your own thread on this topic which you yourself CLOSED?

Lazy afternoon
July 29th, 2017, 04:31 PM
That is nothing more than another lie. Why can you not understand what I say?

The blood of Messiah is necessary to atone for sin. You must have it within and without, and this testimony goes all the way back to the Ark of Noah which was pitched within and without with red pitch-tar, (which is of course symbolism), and Moses uses the same words to describe those things which are also used for atonement later in the Torah. The same is true of the ark of bulrushes which Moses himself was placed in when his mother set him in the Nile: it was pitched with bitumen and pitch. This atonement-covering process and teaching runs through the scripture, which is yet even more, over and above what was already posted in your closed thread, which you fail to incorporate in your false atonement theory. If therefore you do not have the Word within you, then you are not his, and you have no atonement because you do not have and hold the Testimony of the Messiah in uprightness and truth. The Testimony is everything, including the blood of Messiah, which is the Spirit of Grace, for just as he plainly tells you: his Testimony is SPIRIT and LIFE.

Why can you not grasp or fathom such things? It is because you do not have the Logos-Reasoning of the Word of the Father within you. And therefore you do not have true atonement because you allocate the POWER of the Testimony to the physical natural blood of a human being which you imagine covers your sins inside and out. If the physical natural blood of animals cannot cover and atone for your sins according to the scripture then what makes you think that the physical natural blood of a human being can make that difference? especially when you actually have no way to apply that physical natural human blood because it is long gone and nowhere to be found? You have doomed yourself by your own carnal interpretations of carnal logic. You are a theoretical cannibal teaching theoretical cannibalism and telling lies about me because I do not accept your understanding which according to your own theory is physical natural human blood, covering you inside and out, and supposedly atoning for your sins. You are a heathen of heathens because you refuse to heed the warning of Paul and walk according to the SPIRIT.

PS ~ And why do you continue to disrupt this thread with these off-topic things when you have your own thread on this topic which you yourself CLOSED?

No.

The blood of Christ has atoned for sin, quite apart from His Testimony.

Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son,

much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


You say so many lies about me and what I believe that I doubt you even listen to Christ at all.

LA

Epoisses
July 29th, 2017, 06:57 PM
Lol, and you especially gave yourself away by the words, "the tribulation temple" . . . :chuckle:

I am a non-dispensational or moderate futurist. There are different flavors of prophetic interpretation but I wouldn't expect a blunt instrument like you to know that.

Epoisses
July 29th, 2017, 06:59 PM
No.

The blood of Christ has atoned for sin, quite apart from His Testimony.

Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son,

much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


You say so many lies about me and what I believe that I doubt you even listen to Christ at all.

LA

His sole purpose is to push Torah for Gentiles. He's an enemy of the gospel and a foot soldier of the devil.

daqq
July 29th, 2017, 10:35 PM
No.

The blood of Christ has atoned for sin, quite apart from His Testimony.

Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son,

much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


You say so many lies about me and what I believe that I doubt you even listen to Christ at all.

LA

You do not read that in the context of all the passages quoted in your own closed cowardly thread. Therefore you fail. So again, why are you disrupting this thread when you have your own thread on this whole topic? It is because you are nothing more than a harasser, and you are so inflamed with fury, anger, vengeance, and self-pride, that you do not care what the topic is here but only care about exacting revenge because your doctrine has been refuted by the scripture. I am not compelled to explain it all over again and again to you because the answers will remain the same; and you have already rejected what the scripture says in favor of your own paradigm-mindest-ego-god of the flesh man nature.

daqq
July 29th, 2017, 10:53 PM
His sole purpose is to push Torah for Gentiles. He's an enemy of the gospel and a foot soldier of the devil.

Another lie. I quote from the Gospel accounts and the Apostolic writings all the time and you reject those words all the time because you do not believe the scripture. I believe all of it from Genesis to the Apocalypse and use all of it in my doctrine and understanding. In fact, as I have said many times, the Torah cannot be understood without the holy Testimony of the Messiah. Even Paul tells you that the goal is not to abolish the Torah but to understand it in the light of the Testimony of the Master. And because you do not even believe Paul, but have rather made up your own private phony version of the Gospel, you have blinded yourself to the true understanding of the Torah out of your hatred for the Word of Elohim. And the veil that is over your heart, mind, and eyes, when you read the Torah, will not be removed until your heart turns back toward the Father and you begin to immerse yourself in the Testimony of the Messiah, for as even Paul tells you, that veil over your heart, mind, and eyes, when you read the Torah, can only be removed IN Messiah. Your rejection of the LIVING ORACLES of Elohim, which is what Stephen calls the Torah in his testimony in Acts 7, is a rejection of the Living Word whom you claim to know, love, and even worship. You have essentially abolished the Son of Elohim in your heretical doctrine, for Testimony is Spirit, just as the Master tells you that his words are SPIRIT and LIFE, and the Torah is the Testimony of the Father, (through His Son, through Moses), and therefore that Testimony in the Torah is the Father's Son: the same whom you imagine to be abolished, but you only succeed in abolishing him from your own heart and the machinations of the vain imagination of your mind. Your doctrine is utterly false and full of lies. You say out of one side of your mouth that you worship the Son of Elohim as God Almighty, and yet, at the same time you unwittingly and buffoonerously say out of the other side of your mouth that the Son of Elohim is abolished, not even knowing what you say when you say it. You are as blind as a bumbling blood-sucking vampire bat with a twenty-foot wingspan: "Holde sssssteeel, I vant to suck your bluuud!" :chuckle:

Lazy afternoon
July 31st, 2017, 12:49 AM
Another lie. I quote from the Gospel accounts and the Apostolic writings all the time and you reject those words all the time because you do not believe the scripture. I believe all of it from Genesis to the Apocalypse and use all of it in my doctrine and understanding. In fact, as I have said many times, the Torah cannot be understood without the holy Testimony of the Messiah. Even Paul tells you that the goal is not to abolish the Torah but to understand it in the light of the Testimony of the Master. And because you do not even believe Paul, but have rather made up your own private phony version of the Gospel, you have blinded yourself to the true understanding of the Torah out of your hatred for the Word of Elohim. And the veil that is over your heart, mind, and eyes, when you read the Torah, will not be removed until your heart turns back toward the Father and you begin to immerse yourself in the Testimony of the Messiah, for as even Paul tells you, that veil over your heart, mind, and eyes, when you read the Torah, can only be removed IN Messiah. Your rejection of the LIVING ORACLES of Elohim, which is what Stephen calls the Torah in his testimony in Acts 7, is a rejection of the Living Word whom you claim to know, love, and even worship. You have essentially abolished the Son of Elohim in your heretical doctrine, for Testimony is Spirit, just as the Master tells you that his words are SPIRIT and LIFE, and the Torah is the Testimony of the Father, (through His Son, through Moses), and therefore that Testimony in the Torah is the Father's Son: the same whom you imagine to be abolished, but you only succeed in abolishing him from your own heart and the machinations of the vain imagination of your mind. Your doctrine is utterly false and full of lies. You say out of one side of your mouth that you worship the Son of Elohim as God Almighty, and yet, at the same time you unwittingly and buffoonerously say out of the other side of your mouth that the Son of Elohim is abolished, not even knowing what you say when you say it. You are as blind as a bumbling blood-sucking vampire bat with a twenty-foot wingspan: "Holde sssssteeel, I vant to suck your bluuud!" :chuckle:

Even if your doctrine was correct, your lies about others bars you from the Kingdom of God.

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

You can not even begin to eat of the tree of life without confessing the atonement made by the blood of Christ.

LA

daqq
July 31st, 2017, 05:48 AM
Even if your doctrine was correct, your lies about others bars you from the Kingdom of God.

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

You can not even begin to eat of the tree of life without confessing the atonement made by the blood of Christ.

LA

Lol, I know what that passage speaks about while you have no clue. That passage speaks of the "little ones" of which even Lazarus is also one, (again, see the closing punch line statement of the Lazarus parable in Luke 17:1-2, for it is a companion passage with what you have quoted). If only you had paid attention in some of the discussions we have had you would have know who the little ones are by now; but because you walk according to the carnal minded man you remain blind to supernal things in the Testimony of the Messiah. The little ones are likewise the lost sheep of the house of Israel, as has been explained many times.

And again, the tree is known by its fruit, and the evidence is clear in your own thread which you opened back up for less than twenty four hours and immediately closed as soon as you came back because you cannot answer to all the scripture, and logos-reasoning derived from it, which was posted in your own thread concerning the topic of atonement. Anyone who wants to know the truth and see your fruit can go here:

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?123355-Atonement-without-blood-according-to-Freelight/page8

You are exactly as has already been said; a coward who closed your own call out thread after seeing all the evidence from the scripture being posted against your false belief system. And now, instead of discussing this topic in your own call out thread, where all of the evidence from the scripture is already posted, you are roaming around lurking in the shadows of other threads, such as this one, waiting for opportunities to throw stones at your perceived enemy.

As for what you have quoted in your ignorance:

Matthew 18:6-12
6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

Luke 16:19-31 ~ Luke 17:1-2
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
01 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
02 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

The parable does not end just because you see a chapter break in your favorite modern faulty English translation: no, but the whole punch line statement to the parable is found in Luke 17:1-2, and Lazarus is therefore one of the "little ones" because the whole parable concerns Lazarus and the rich man.

Matthew 12:46-50
46 While he was yet speaking to the multitudes, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, seeking to speak to him.
47 And one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, seeking to speak to thee.
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 And he stretched forth his hand towards his disciples, and said, Behold, my mother and my brethren!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father who is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.

And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said:

https://ed18c523-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/elaiasindex/yeshua-says/rt-hand.png

Behold, my mother and my brethren!


And there shall be five in one house parted asunder-divided, (Luke 12:51-53).

https://ed18c523-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/elaiasindex/yeshua-says/three-against-two.png

Three against two, and two against three, (Luke 12:52).
Five on the right, and five on the left, like ten little virgins . . . :chuckle:
And when the Son of Man comes he will separate the sheep from the goats . . . :chuckle: :chuckle:

:sheep:

Right Divider
July 31st, 2017, 09:03 AM
You people will condemn Calvin, White, Smith, Russell and the likes as false prophets but never have the guts to admit that Darby is at the very top of that list. Your beliefs don't come from the bible they come from him where every mention of Israel is always ethnic and of the flesh. Israel of the Spirit or the Israel of God are designations for born-again believers who have circumcised hearts. You have to have the Holy Spirit be a member of the house of God.
Continued hogwash.

Lazy afternoon
July 31st, 2017, 08:11 PM
Lol, I know what that passage speaks about while you have no clue. That passage speaks of the "little ones" of which even Lazarus is also one, (again, see the closing punch line statement of the Lazarus parable in Luke 17:1-2, for it is a companion passage with what you have quoted). If only you had paid attention in some of the discussions we have had you would have know who the little ones are by now; but because you walk according to the carnal minded man you remain blind to supernal things in the Testimony of the Messiah. The little ones are likewise the lost sheep of the house of Israel, as has been explained many times.

And again, the tree is known by its fruit, and the evidence is clear in your own thread which you opened back up for less than twenty four hours and immediately closed as soon as you came back because you cannot answer to all the scripture, and logos-reasoning derived from it, which was posted in your own thread concerning the topic of atonement. Anyone who wants to know the truth and see your fruit can go here:

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?123355-Atonement-without-blood-according-to-Freelight/page8

You are exactly as has already been said; a coward who closed your own call out thread after seeing all the evidence from the scripture being posted against your false belief system. And now, instead of discussing this topic in your own call out thread, where all of the evidence from the scripture is already posted, you are roaming around lurking in the shadows of other threads, such as this one, waiting for opportunities to throw stones at your perceived enemy.

As for what you have quoted in your ignorance:

Matthew 18:6-12
6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

Luke 16:19-31 ~ Luke 17:1-2
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
01 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
02 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

The parable does not end just because you see a chapter break in your favorite modern faulty English translation: no, but the whole punch line statement to the parable is found in Luke 17:1-2, and Lazarus is therefore one of the "little ones" because the whole parable concerns Lazarus and the rich man.

Matthew 12:46-50
46 While he was yet speaking to the multitudes, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, seeking to speak to him.
47 And one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, seeking to speak to thee.
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 And he stretched forth his hand towards his disciples, and said, Behold, my mother and my brethren!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father who is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.

And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said:

https://ed18c523-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/elaiasindex/yeshua-says/rt-hand.png

Behold, my mother and my brethren!


And there shall be five in one house parted asunder-divided, (Luke 12:51-53).

https://ed18c523-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/elaiasindex/yeshua-says/three-against-two.png

Three against two, and two against three, (Luke 12:52).
Five on the right, and five on the left, like ten little virgins . . . :chuckle:
And when the Son of Man comes he will separate the sheep from the goats . . . :chuckle: :chuckle:

:sheep:

You are still in your sins.

LA

Epoisses
July 31st, 2017, 08:18 PM
You are still in your sins.

LA

Yep. And his posts are so long because he thinks the more words he uses the more righteous he is.

Epoisses
July 31st, 2017, 08:20 PM
Continued hogwash.

Truth hurts and the damage is already done. Dispensational Christians will be the first to bow to the beast.

Lazy afternoon
August 1st, 2017, 12:31 AM
Truth hurts and the damage is already done. Dispensational Christians will be the first to bow to the beast.

Yes because the pope is engineering the great con now and the dispys are joining the whore in droves.

Many will worship the beast.

(the beast is not the whore thou)

LA

daqq
August 1st, 2017, 04:26 AM
Yep. And his posts are so long because he thinks the more words he uses the more righteous he is.


You are still in your sins.

LA

Lol, it has already been proven that both of you are living in reverso-world. Just about everything that the carnal man believes is the exact opposite of the Spirit. The tragic thing is that the carnal minded man cannot see his own erroneous buffoonery. Neither of you have any physical blood to wash away your sins, neither do you have physical blood and physical bodily flesh of the Messiah to eat and drink, and even if you did it would be cannibalism and surely a profane violation of the law; yet you both demand that the blood of the Messiah must be physical. You therefore bear witness against yourselves that you have no blood atonement covering for your own sins because you maintain that the blood of atonement is natural, physical, and only that. And at the same time you openly and brazenly trample the Testimony of the Messiah, which I have shown you by the scripture is the spiritual equivalent of his blood, and, according to the author of Hebrews, is the Spirit of Grace. Moreover, also at the same time, Paul states, (according to a disputed passage), that the congregation was purchased by "the blood of Elohim", and no doubt you both believe that passage and use it in your doctrines, but also at the same time the scripture from the NT alone says in two places that no one has seen or beheld Elohim at any time. If no one has seen or beheld Elohim at any time then how can the blood of the non-corporeal Elohim be physical? as you both claim in your carnal atonement doctrines?

Boiyoiyoiyoiyoing . . . whah, whah, whah . . . You lose!

Thank you for playing the game of life or death.
If you would like to try again please insert another soul.
If you do not have another soul to give: sorry for your carnal luck. :chuckle:

Epoisses
August 1st, 2017, 06:21 AM
Those who are still in their sins will always vehemently protest that they are not still in their sins.

northwye
August 1st, 2017, 06:54 AM
"Truth hurts and the damage is already done. Dispensational Christians will be the first to bow to the beast."

Revelation 19: 20 says "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

What is meant by the beast in Revelation 19: 20. The literalist dispensationalists would say it is one man, their super one man anti-Christ, who is to make his appearance in the future, but I John 2: 18 and I John 4: 3 say instead that "there are now many anti-Christs" and "this is that spirit of anti-Christ."

The spirit of anti-Christ is here right now and has been around since the time John wrote.

Look in a good concordance for beast, There are two different beasts in Revelation 13. The first beast can be identified as government or world empire, from Revelation 13: 1-3, and the second beast, starting in Revelation 13: 11 is the deceptive false prophet, but Matthew 24: 11 says there are many false prophets. So the false prophet taken in Revelation 19: 20 is metaphoric for many false prophets and so is the beast there who is said to be taken. The beast - the second beast in Revelation 13: 11-18 - is also the false prophet.

And so the dispensationalists - because several of their doctrines do not agree with scripture - have already bowed to the beast.

Epoisses
August 1st, 2017, 08:13 AM
The beast with seven heads and ten horns is point blank identified as Satan or the dragon in Revelation, pretty hard to miss. The heads are demonic powers and the horns are earthly powers.

And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads....And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Rev. 12:3,9

I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: Rev. 17:7,8 - Satan is cast back into the bottomless pit during the 1000 years so he is the angel of the bottomless pit (Rev. 9:11).

Right Divider
August 1st, 2017, 08:59 AM
Truth hurts and the damage is already done. Dispensational Christians will be the first to bow to the beast.
You are another poser claiming to be a "Christian".

Otherwise you would not be the compulsive, obsessive liar that you are.

Epoisses
August 1st, 2017, 01:14 PM
You are another poser claiming to be a "Christian".

Otherwise you would not be the compulsive, obsessive liar that you are.

Be gone, Troll! Grown folks is talkin'

Right Divider
August 1st, 2017, 01:55 PM
Be gone, Troll! Grown folks is talkin'
You should be arrested for attempted humor.

Lazy afternoon
August 1st, 2017, 04:55 PM
Lol, it has already been proven that both of you are living in reverso-world. Just about everything that the carnal man believes is the exact opposite of the Spirit. The tragic thing is that the carnal minded man cannot see his own erroneous buffoonery. Neither of you have any physical blood to wash away your sins, neither do you have physical blood and physical bodily flesh of the Messiah to eat and drink, and even if you did it would be cannibalism and surely a profane violation of the law; yet you both demand that the blood of the Messiah must be physical. You therefore bear witness against yourselves that you have no blood atonement covering for your own sins because you maintain that the blood of atonement is natural, physical, and only that. And at the same time you openly and brazenly trample the Testimony of the Messiah, which I have shown you by the scripture is the spiritual equivalent of his blood, and, according to the author of Hebrews, is the Spirit of Grace. Moreover, also at the same time, Paul states, (according to a disputed passage), that the congregation was purchased by "the blood of Elohim", and no doubt you both believe that passage and use it in your doctrines, but also at the same time the scripture from the NT alone says in two places that no one has seen or beheld Elohim at any time. If no one has seen or beheld Elohim at any time then how can the blood of the non-corporeal Elohim be physical? as you both claim in your carnal atonement doctrines?
:

We don't.

You use that false claim to deny the atoning work of Christ at the cross.

LA

daqq
August 1st, 2017, 05:11 PM
We don't.

You use that false claim to deny the atoning work of Christ at the cross.

LA

Again with the same inane responses? I do not deny what you accuse me of: please prove your accusation. I have rather already laid out much of my position, and used quite a bit of my time do so, IN YOUR OWN THREAD, which you have locked like a coward so that you do not have to answer to the scripture. :rotfl:

Epoisses
August 1st, 2017, 08:47 PM
Again with the same inane responses? I do not deny what you accuse me of: please prove your accusation. I have rather already laid out much of my position, and used quite a bit of my time do so, IN YOUR OWN THREAD, which you have locked like a coward so that you do not have to answer to the scripture. :rotfl:

No proof necessary, gospel rejector! You've been blotted out from the book of Christ. Daqq, deceived from birth and an agent of the enemy. The devil deceived you and your preaching his gospel now.

Epoisses
August 1st, 2017, 08:48 PM
You should be arrested for attempted humor.

I'm trying to have a conversation with someone of intelligence and it keeps getting derailed.

daqq
August 1st, 2017, 09:24 PM
No proof necessary, gospel rejector! You've been blotted out from the book of Christ. Daqq, deceived from birth and an agent of the enemy. The devil deceived you and your preaching his gospel now.

Why do the frauds and imposters always end up admitting in one way or another that they imagine themselves to be God? One can only conclude that they must indeed truly believe in the machinations of their vain imaginations that they are God. What's next? Are you one of the two witnesses too? seeing how someone is calling down fire from your heavens in your vain imagination? Or is that one not you who gives you the authority and almighty power to judge the heathen in your glorious and righteous fiery judgments which are no doubt all extrapolated from the Torah and Prophets which you openly reject? And if he is not you then who is he that keeps speaking through you and for you? You might want to take a breather and ask yourself if indeed you really are who you think two of you are, (he is lying to you in chamber, behold, you will see in that day when you finally do take the time to go to chamber in chamber, you should have heeded the warning of scripture and tested the spirits). :chuckle:

Lazy afternoon
August 1st, 2017, 11:11 PM
Why do the frauds and imposters always end up admitting in one way or another that they imagine themselves to be God? One can only conclude that they must indeed truly believe in the machinations of their vain imaginations that they are God. What's next? Are you one of the two witnesses too? seeing how someone is calling down fire from your heavens in your vain imagination? Or is that one not you who gives you the authority and almighty power to judge the heathen in your glorious and righteous fiery judgments which are no doubt all extrapolated from the Torah and Prophets which you openly reject? And if he is not you then who is he that keeps speaking through you and for you? You might want to take a breather and ask yourself if indeed you really are who you think two of you are, (he is lying to you in chamber, behold, you will see in that day when you finally do take the time to go to chamber in chamber, you should have heeded the warning of scripture and tested the spirits). :chuckle:

you describe yourself exactly.

LA

Lazy afternoon
August 1st, 2017, 11:15 PM
Again with the same inane responses? I do not deny what you accuse me of: please prove your accusation. I have rather already laid out much of my position, and used quite a bit of my time do so, IN YOUR OWN THREAD, which you have locked like a coward so that you do not have to answer to the scripture. :rotfl:

You proved you agree with the Judaizers and speak as they do.

LA

freelight
August 1st, 2017, 11:53 PM
You are still in your sins.

LA


Well, thats a "catch phrase" sported by some using Paul's writings, 'theoritcal' at best, by only an assumed positional place "in Christ" which is spiritual and subjective.

Dont forget, that while in the 'flesh' you are still subject to imperfection, weakness, temptation, and all that is heir to the flesh, unless you by the Spirit deaden these carnal proclivities and live wholly in love. Also, they who say they have no sin, LIE, and the truth is not in them (See John), so from a Pauline perspective you're only 'posturing' his gospel-spin to pamper you own glorified position "in Christ" which is supposedly above 'sin'. His descriptions are granted....but STILL, while you can claim utter perfection in the Spirit, as long as you are in this corruptible body, you engage that same 'war' Paul described, to which even he could not win except in his surrender to some concept of Christ's victory, somehow applied to himself.

The sacrifice of Jesus soul as a love-offering and the Resurrection of Jesus can teach more than just what Paul shared about it from 'his persective'(and whats later been contrived therefrom), since what he taught was only 'according to his gospel' and what he believed or assumed from 'opinion' or revelation. In the greater context,....unless you are wholly perfect in thought, word and deed, you cannot claim to be 'perfect' unless you are at any moment wholly aligned and inspired by LOVE ONLY, in which there is no fear, neither any lack or sin. So, "you are still in your sins" is but a 'suppositional slogan' among other universal propositions that must be considered in the greater context of things.

On that note my former commentary on 'blood atonement' here (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?123355-Atonement-without-blood-according-to-Freelight&highlight=) holds, and NOTHING substitutes or compensates for one's personal sins or karma, but their own making of amends and making atonement for their own sins by reparation and repentance. No amount of blood of animals or even god-men, while having some potency to the believer by 'faith', can abrigate the self-responsibility of each soul, to REPENT by their own choice as wooed by the Spirit to be restored to 'right-doing', to be absolved by surrender to love's will, which alone makes whole, and makes peace.

freelight
August 2nd, 2017, 12:08 AM
You proved you agree with the Judaizers and speak as they do.

LA

Dont forget, the Jesus you adore and worship, was a JEW. The original 12 apostles (leaving Paul out for now, an engima to himself), were bonafide traditional orthodox monotheistic Jews, and they kept to most of the Jewish law and customs AFTER Jesus left the original community, whereby by James the Just, the brother of Jesus, along with Peter and John became the pillars thereof. James, a premium example of a 'Judiazer', was placed as the leader of Jesus followers in Jerusalem. So, the term 'judaizers', as a 'slur' of some kind, is doing no good towards Jesus and his original apostles, and was a derogatory label assumed LATER by gentile christians more in league with Paul's hand crafted gospel which catered to their own non-jewish sentiments. The 'rock in a hard place' was later trying to be true to Jesus' Jewishness in the gospel accounts by making allowance for his Jewishness (lump in the whole OT also in your new christian bible), so there was a compromise of sorts with Paul's letters, convoluting various terms and concepts whereby only thru some 'mystical union' in Christ,....Jews and Gentiles somehow merged into one. Of course...the plot from there thickens.

Also part of the puzzle many christians dont bother to research beyond whats been prepacked for them, is the history of the first at least 3 centuries of Early Christianity, and the cultural/religous influx, crossbreeding and development of doctrine that arose during those times, later to be fossilized and organized into the growing 'formal catholic church' and her offspring. What we have today as 'Christianity' is probably very different from what the first 2 centuries of early Christian communities were like, as they continued to evolve and be fashioned thereby.

Epoisses
August 2nd, 2017, 06:15 AM
I had hopes for Freelight being a seeker of truth but alas the world of sin has snuffed out his candle. He's another one who needs beamed back up to the mother ship.

Epoisses
August 2nd, 2017, 06:18 AM
Why do the frauds and imposters always end up admitting in one way or another that they imagine themselves to be God? One can only conclude that they must indeed truly believe in the machinations of their vain imaginations that they are God. What's next? Are you one of the two witnesses too? seeing how someone is calling down fire from your heavens in your vain imagination? Or is that one not you who gives you the authority and almighty power to judge the heathen in your glorious and righteous fiery judgments which are no doubt all extrapolated from the Torah and Prophets which you openly reject? And if he is not you then who is he that keeps speaking through you and for you? You might want to take a breather and ask yourself if indeed you really are who you think two of you are, (he is lying to you in chamber, behold, you will see in that day when you finally do take the time to go to chamber in chamber, you should have heeded the warning of scripture and tested the spirits). :chuckle:

Save me works of my hands, save me! My good deeds wrought by Torah are my savior.

daqq
August 2nd, 2017, 08:17 AM
No proof necessary, gospel rejector! You've been blotted out from the book of Christ. Daqq, deceived from birth and an agent of the enemy. The devil deceived you and your preaching his gospel now.
Why do the frauds and imposters always end up admitting in one way or another that they imagine themselves to be God? One can only conclude that they must indeed truly believe in the machinations of their vain imaginations that they are God. What's next? Are you one of the two witnesses too? seeing how someone is calling down fire from your heavens in your vain imagination? Or is that one not you who gives you the authority and almighty power to judge the heathen in your glorious and righteous fiery judgments which are no doubt all extrapolated from the Torah and Prophets which you openly reject? And if he is not you then who is he that keeps speaking through you and for you? You might want to take a breather and ask yourself if indeed you really are who you think two of you are, (he is lying to you in chamber, behold, you will see in that day when you finally do take the time to go to chamber in chamber, you should have heeded the warning of scripture and tested the spirits). :chuckle:



Why do the frauds and imposters always end up admitting in one way or another that they imagine themselves to be God? One can only conclude that they must indeed truly believe in the machinations of their vain imaginations that they are God. What's next? Are you one of the two witnesses too? seeing how someone is calling down fire from your heavens in your vain imagination? Or is that one not you who gives you the authority and almighty power to judge the heathen in your glorious and righteous fiery judgments which are no doubt all extrapolated from the Torah and Prophets which you openly reject? And if he is not you then who is he that keeps speaking through you and for you? You might want to take a breather and ask yourself if indeed you really are who you think two of you are, (he is lying to you in chamber, behold, you will see in that day when you finally do take the time to go to chamber in chamber, you should have heeded the warning of scripture and tested the spirits). :chuckle:
you describe yourself exactly.
LA

You show the world that you have no reading comprehension whatsoever because you ignore context so as to make up your own false realities. I am not the one calling down fire and judging others as being "blotted out from the book of life", "deceived from birth", and lost and going to hell. Have I said any of those things about you or anyone else? In this thread it has been you yourself and your accomplice Epoisses who are instead judging me in such ways and attacking any and every way you can imagine to do, while the truth is that neither of you actually have any genuine cause for what you are doing, other than that the Word quoted here and everywhere else has offended you and your doctrine by refuting the both of you to your faces. You simply refuse to bow to the Word, and you want to forcibly silence the messenger with verbal assault and character assassination for posting the Word whom you do not believe; and this lawless wickedness you yourself continue to do after I have asked you many times to either put up or shut up, and leave me alone, and stop derailing the thread, and to stop harassing me with the same inane accusations that are meaningless because you refuse to open your own thread where I already posted much evidence for you: and it is clear to everyone except the two of you that I have already said to you, over and over again herein, if you want to discuss your atonement theories you have you own atonement thread already, which you yourself have locked and are afraid to open back up. So both you and Epoisses are hating without genuine cause, for you clearly hate brethren who post the scripture to you and the Word that refutes your bogus theories; and whosoever hates a brother is considered a murderer in the kingdom of Elohim, and we know that no murderer has life aionion dwelling in him.

daqq
August 2nd, 2017, 09:12 AM
You proved you agree with the Judaizers and speak as they do.

LA

You misapply Gal 2:14, (which is about the only place you can extrapolate the word "Judaize"), because you do not understand the scripture when you read it, and because your favorite translations have perverted the scripture, while you yourself have not done your own work so as to understand the Word. You reveal a terrible lack of love for the Word in that you have more love for yourself and your dogma than you do for what the Word actually says.

daqq
August 2nd, 2017, 10:08 AM
Save me works of my hands, save me! My good deeds wrought by Torah are my savior.


No proof necessary, gospel rejector! You've been blotted out from the book of Christ. Daqq, deceived from birth and an agent of the enemy. The devil deceived you and your preaching his gospel now.

The reason you should utterly avoid saying such evil and blasphemous things to anyone, (and especially someone online whom you have never actually met and clearly do not know), is because when you say them to one who is truly born from above you blaspheme the Father who has called them from the womb of the morning. For we are commanded in John 3:4-5 to go back into the womb of our mother, (covenant), which is Yerushalem of above and the Tabernacle according to Paul, and Isaiah, whom Paul also quotes in that passage, (Gal 4:22-27, and v.27 is a quote from Isa 54:1, which speaks of the Tabernacle in the very next line, Isa 54:2), just as Nikodemos was admonished to do in the response from the Master to this very question of going back into the womb of his mother, (John 3:4-5). You therefore reveal in your railing accusations, evil speaking, and blasphemies, that you have no clue what it truly means to be born from above, and that is because you neither understand nor believe the Testimony of the Messiah whom you falsely claim to know and even worship as God Almighty.


Daqq, deceived from birth and an agent of the enemy. The devil deceived you and your preaching his gospel now.

And when it pleased Elohim, He separated me from the womb of my mother-covenant Yerushalem of above, and called me by His grace, to reveal His Son in me. Behold, if anyone be in Messiah, the same is a new creation-creature: old things are passed away, behold, all things are become new. And from a babe have I known the holy scripture: for one is not "born from above" in the moment he or she first "believes", no, but rather the teaching of the Master is that one must first go back into the mother-covenant and Tabernacle of Yerushalem of above, and RELEARN everything, and then patiently wait for the Most High to call them forth from the womb of their mother-covenant in new life: just as even Nikodemos the Archon Teacher of Yisrael was required to do, and did, because he clearly loved the Master, (John 19:39), and just as also Saul-Paul likewise had to do, and did, (Gal 1:15), and likewise Timothy, (2Tim 3:15), and likewise haNavi Yeshayah, (Isa 49:1, 44:2, 44:24-25, 66:8-9), and likewise haNavi Yirmeyahu, (Jer 1:5), and the same it is with all the faithful in Messiah, (Isa 44:2, Isa 44:24-25, Isa 66:8-9).

You therefore open your lion-like mouth in blasphemy against Elohim, to blaspheme His name, and His Tabernacle: those tabernacling in the heavens, (Rev 13:6). And if you and your fellow blasphemers do not shut your lion-like mouths, (Mat 15:18-19, Dan 4:16, Dan 7:4, Rev 13:2), then the Angel of the Most High will come soon enough and shut your lion-like mouths for you, (Dan 6:22, 2Tim 4:17-18, Heb 11:32-33), and that is not because of me or for my sake, (for your judgment is empty, worthless, and meaningless in the house which the Master has set me in charge over), but because you yourselves blaspheme the Father, and His Tabernacle, those who are tabernacling in the heavens and in the heavenly places in Messiah: for the Father will indeed confirm the Word of His servants, as the scripture says, but those who do not know Him, and blaspheme His name, and His Tabernacle, shall die in their sins.

Lazy afternoon
August 2nd, 2017, 04:33 PM
You therefore open your lion-like mouth in blasphemy against Elohim, to blaspheme His name, and His Tabernacle: those tabernacling in the heavens, (Rev 13:6). And if you and your fellow blasphemers do not shut your lion-like mouths, (Mat 15:18-19, Dan 4:16, Dan 7:4, Rev 13:2), then the Angel of the Most High will come soon enough and shut your lion-like mouths for you, (Dan 6:22, 2Tim 4:17-18, Heb 11:32-33), and that is not because of me or for my sake, (for your judgment is empty, worthless, and meaningless in the house which the Master has set me in charge over), but because you yourselves blaspheme the Father, and His Tabernacle, those who are tabernacling in the heavens and in the heavenly places in Messiah: for the Father will indeed confirm the Word of His servants, as the scripture says, but those who do not know Him, and blaspheme His name, and His Tabernacle, shall die in their sins.

False Christ.

daqq
August 2nd, 2017, 06:09 PM
False Christ.

Again you expose yourself and reveal that you have no clue what you speak of:

Matthew 23:10 W/H
10 μηδε κληθητε καθηγηται οτι καθηγητης υμων εστιν εις ο χριστος

The Christos is The Guide, (καθηγητης). I do not claim to be your guide or the guide of anyone else. That one is he who searches the hearts and reins and minds. He is like a still small voice in the heart and mind, no matter which one he happens to be, the true, or the false: and yours appears to be the one who tells you it is okay to ignore the commandments of the real Christos found written in the Gospel accounts. Yours appears to be the one who tells you that you are right, and everyone else is wrong, even when you contradict the scripture and the Testimony of the real Christos. Yours appears to be the one who tells you that you do not really need scripture or the words of the Christos to support or substantiate what you believe, and say, and do, just so long as you listen to him and let him guide your thought processes and actions. Yours appears to be the one who tells you it is okay to go ahead and spew hatred even though the real Christos forbids such deeds in the name of the Father. Yours also appears to be the one who hates to be exposed for what he is: and perhaps that is why he tells you to do what you do when he is being exposed. And you appear to do what he tells you to do because he apparently tells you that he is a good shepherd: and because you do not care to check what he says against the scripture and the Testimony of the real Christos written in the Gospel accounts, yours apparently teaches you that it is okay to commit blasphemies and speak murders which the real Christos would never lead you or guide you to do. And what you do is indeed accounted as murderous according to multiple scripture passages which have already been quoted to you: but you do not care because he apparently tells you that he forgives you for the blasphemies and murders proceeding from your heart, and coming forth out of your mouth and fingertips in what you speak and write.

Epoisses
August 2nd, 2017, 06:12 PM
Hey Daqq,

Your law message is like telling the cancer patient that his disease is incurable and he's going to die.

The gospel message tells that same patient this his disease is 100% curable and he will live forever.

Which message is the good news? Even a moron like Daqq can figure this one out.

daqq
August 2nd, 2017, 06:18 PM
Hey Daqq,

Your law message is like telling the cancer patient that his disease is incurable and he's going to die.

The gospel message tells that same patient this his disease is 100% curable and he will live forever.

Which message is the good news? Even a moron like Daqq can figure this one out.

:readthis:


Once upon an appointed time there were two sisters, twins, and they had both developed a lump in the same place. So they went to the Doctor, and after having done his diagnostics on them, the Doctor said to them, Both of you have cancer, and this is urgent: both of you need to go immediately under the knife so this plague can be removed. And the twins looked at each other, and looking back at the Physician, they answered at the same time, saying, We are free of all such things, and are no more under the knife, for we have been set free from all things concerning knives and death. Then the Physician, scratching his head, looked down at their charts, and answered them both, saying, Having looked at both of your charts, I must say, neither of you have ever been under the knife according to what is recorded in your charts. And again, this is urgent, the cancer must be removed before it begins to spread and ends up killing both of you. I know the knife can be fearful but it is the only option if you want to live. So there was a pause, and silence, as the two looked at each other once more for confirmation one from another; and the one turns to the Physician, and says, Okay Doc, I know that you know what you are doing, and your track record is perfect, so I trust you; I will place my life in your hands and go under the knife. But the other drew back in fear, saying, I will wait to see what happens with my sister. So the next day the one enters the hospital and puts herself and her life into the hands of the Physician to undergo the knife. But during the procedure she actually ended up dying, that is, for about three and a half minutes she was clinically dead, but the Surgeon and his team of seven revived her. And she recovered, and after about three and a half days she left the hospital, on her own two feet; and she made a full recovery being made completely whole, and cancer free. But meanwhile the other, having seen what had happened to her sister, refused to go under the knife; not trusting the Great Physician. And within six months that one died of her plagues. And she is not coming back because she refused to put her trust in the Physician and allow herself go under the knife to remove her plagues. So they both died but the one who faithfully trusted, and put her life into the hands of the Great Physician; she now lives, though she died.

"Under the Knife" = "Under the Law" :Shimei:

:sheep:

Epoisses
August 2nd, 2017, 06:22 PM
The dumbest and stupidest analogy I have ever read in my life and of course it came from Daqq! He has no good news, everybody dies.

daqq
August 2nd, 2017, 06:31 PM
The dumbest and stupidest analogy I have ever read in my life and of course it came from Daqq! He has no good news, everybody dies.

Only the way in which Messiah teaches me and that is the most important way because it complies with the New Covenant. You can either do so his Way, or you can go on with your big bad self, and die your own physical way like most.

Jeremiah 31:29-31 KJV
29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Sorry for your left-handed luck but the Words of the Father are not abolished.
Your soul must die for your sins and that is clearly in the New Covenant.
Messiah teaches you how to do it but you do not believe him.

Epoisses
August 2nd, 2017, 06:36 PM
Christians should leave the Old Testament alone and Daqq is living proof. Now it does serve a function in a historical context but when Christians dabble with the law they get sucked into the works righteousness and never come back. It's sorcery and black magic and it seduces millions. Come and work your way to heaven, everybody's doing it.

Lazy afternoon
August 3rd, 2017, 01:12 AM
Christians should leave the Old Testament alone and Daqq is living proof. Now it does serve a function in a historical context but when Christians dabble with the law they get sucked into the works righteousness and never come back. It's sorcery and black magic and it seduces millions. Come and work your way to heaven, everybody's doing it.


Do you really read Daggs ravings?

LA

Epoisses
August 3rd, 2017, 06:15 AM
Do you really read Daggs ravings?

LA

I just skim thru. It's too painful to read every word.

Right Divider
August 3rd, 2017, 07:17 AM
Christians should leave the Old Testament alone and Daqq is living proof. Now it does serve a function in a historical context but when Christians dabble with the law they get sucked into the works righteousness and never come back. It's sorcery and black magic and it seduces millions. Come and work your way to heaven, everybody's doing it.
There is far more in the old testament than just the law.

Epoisses
August 3rd, 2017, 06:10 PM
There is far more in the old testament than just the law.

Dispensational Christians are Messianic Jews today so any grace message they preach is polluted. They will be written off as a 'total loss' in the last days.

Right Divider
August 3rd, 2017, 07:42 PM
Dispensational Christians are Messianic Jews today so any grace message they preach is polluted. They will be written off as a 'total loss' in the last days.
You're opinions are misinformed garbage.

Epoisses
August 3rd, 2017, 08:22 PM
You're opinions are misinformed garbage.

Go stand with Israel because she'll never stand for you, slave.

Right Divider
August 4th, 2017, 08:08 AM
Go stand with Israel because she'll never stand for you, slave.
Once again you prove to be a misinformed idiot.

Epoisses
August 4th, 2017, 01:52 PM
Once again you prove to be a misinformed idiot.

Everyone who disagrees with you and your agenda is misinformed aren't they? Hagar is calling her children home and it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

freelight
August 4th, 2017, 03:15 PM
Christians should leave the Old Testament alone and Daqq is living proof. Now it does serve a function in a historical context but when Christians dabble with the law they get sucked into the works righteousness and never come back. It's sorcery and black magic and it seduces millions. Come and work your way to heaven, everybody's doing it.

Then why dont you just CUT OUT the OT from your pre-scribed and interpolated 'Bible' and be done with it? For heaven's sake. Would that make you a happy camper? :) - unfortunately, since Jesus and Paul quote from it, and still in some places support and uphold the Jewish 'canon' plus certain fundamentals and customs (although Paul's spin is more controversial depending on 'interpretation'), you're stuck with it. We would remind you as well that types, shadows, allegorical truths, archetypes and certain universal laws (principles) are found in the OT (further expounded in the kaballah and other texts), so you going FULLY anti-Torah doesnt cut it,....some parts are more or less expendable and open to 'interpretation', but its not all 'sorcery' or 'black magic',....modern day Christianity has its own share of 'voodoo theology' and 'microwave salvation theories' as it goes, so dont even start :)

Things get more convoluted with the presumed rebuilding of the temple when animal sacrifice will return in full fervor, to wet Yahweh's appetite apparently, but such looks more like the zeal of the 'Temple Institute' and zealous Jews to keep the Nation alive and well, messianic expectations intact, with all the bells and whistles. - however I see such animal cruely unacceptable, and the fact still remains that the blood of any animal or man for that matter can cleanse anyone from their sins, apart from their own reparation and repentance.

Finally, if you take the teachings of Jesus himself (assuming some of the words can be trusted)....he did not come to DO AWAY with the Law,....but to FULFILL it! - all older covenants and revelation hold, but are further illumined, refined and perfected in the new covenent dispensation, and since there is 'progressive revelation'....MORE shall be revealed. However, as you may agree, in the Messiah, ALL is fulfilled and in Him we are perfected, BUT we still must do our part in 'covenant-relationship' and 'faith' (which includes works which prove the authenticity of our faith) to partner with 'God' to see and enter into his kingdom. Furthermore,...a man STILL sows what he reaps, and this law of action/consequence (cause/effect, seed/harvest) is a universal law,...elsewhere we refer to it generically as 'karma' (we've treated this subject here (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?116739-Christianity-vs-karma)).

daqq
August 4th, 2017, 04:26 PM
Then why dont you just CUT OUT the OT from your pre-scribed and interpolated 'Bible' and be done with it? For heaven's sake. Would that make you a happy camper? :) - unfortunately, since Jesus and Paul quote from it, and still in some places support and uphold the Jewish 'canon' plus certain fundamentals and customs (although Paul's spin is more controversial depending on 'interpretation'), you're stuck with it. We would remind you as well that types, shadows, allegorical truths, archetypes and certain universal laws (principles) are found in the OT (further expounded in the kaballah and other texts), so you going FULLY anti-Torah doesnt cut it,....some parts are more or less expendable and open to 'interpretation', but its not all 'sorcery' or 'black magic',....modern day Christianity has its own share of 'voodoo theology' and 'microwave salvation theories' as it goes, so dont even start :)

Things get more convoluted with the presumed rebuilding of the temple when animal sacrifice will return in full fervor, to wet Yahweh's appetite apparently, but such looks more like the zeal of the 'Temple Institute' and zealous Jews to keep the Nation alive and well, messianic expectations intact, with all the bells and whistles. - however I see such animal cruely unacceptable, and the fact still remains that the blood of any animal or man for that matter can cleanse anyone from their sins, apart from their own reparation and repentance.

Finally, if you take the teachings of Jesus himself (assuming some of the words can be trusted)....he did not come to DO AWAY with the Law,....but to FULFILL it! - all older covenants and revelation hold, but are further illumined, refined and perfected in the new covenent dispensation, and since there is 'progressive revelation'....MORE shall be revealed. However, as you may agree, in the Messiah, ALL is fulfilled and in Him we are perfected, BUT we still must do our part in 'covenant-relationship' and 'faith' (which includes works which prove the authenticity of our faith) to partner with 'God' to see and enter into his kingdom. Furthermore,...a man STILL sows what he reaps, and this law of action/consequence (cause/effect, seed/harvest) is a universal law,...elsewhere we refer to it generically as 'karma' (we've treated this subject here (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?116739-Christianity-vs-karma)).

Just another modern day Marcionite with a more fancy pair of invisible modern theological scissors. He will not actually literally cut out what he hates because it would expose him for a true heretic-divider. That is the real problem here: getting exposed for what they are, by their own words, deeds, and actions, which reveal that they do not really know the Messiah whom they claim to know, love, and worship as "God Almighty in the flesh". One cannot know the Messiah while at the same time neither knowing nor understanding his Testimony. It is unwise to make such a claim because the truth will always come out in what proceeds from the heart and comes forth from their mouths, fingertips, keypads, and keyboards. This becomes even more exaggerated when they run into someone who actually does know the scripture and the Testimony of the Messiah. What they actually know is a very basic set of Trinitarian principles taught be men, which are already widely known by just about everyone, which they have taken and then altered to suit their own fanciful versions of what they desire to believe so as to justify themselves. Most of what they claim is not found in the scripture; for when you ask for the evidence, they either rip a passage out of its context, or quote something which they themselves actually have no clue about what it says or means by the full context and the wider context of the rest of holy writ. :)

Epoisses
August 4th, 2017, 04:27 PM
Then why dont you just CUT OUT the OT from your pre-scribed and interpolated 'Bible' and be done with it? For heaven's sake. Would that make you a happy camper? :) - unfortunately, since Jesus and Paul quote from it, and still in some places support and uphold the Jewish 'canon' plus certain fundamentals and customs (although Paul's spin is more controversial depending on 'interpretation'), you're stuck with it. We would remind you as well that types, shadows, allegorical truths, archetypes and certain universal laws (principles) are found in the OT (further expounded in the kaballah and other texts), so you going FULLY anti-Torah doesnt cut it,....some parts are more or less expendable and open to 'interpretation', but its not all 'sorcery' or 'black magic',....modern day Christianity has its own share of 'voodoo theology' and 'microwave salvation theories' as it goes, so dont even start :)

The Old Testament with its rudimentary laws and requirements is akin to the playground of the kindergarten class. The New Testament gives believers the freedom to live lives that are not bound to hard and fast rules that can never be broken. Essentially God is treating us like grown ups and allowing us to make our own decisions good or bad. Those who advocate Torah are forcing the grown ups back to the kindergarten play ground and taking away their freedom. Now can freedom be abused? Yes it can but it is still light years better than the alternative of big brother making all my decisions for me.

Epoisses
August 4th, 2017, 04:30 PM
Just another modern day Marcionite with a more fancy pair of invisible modern theological scissors. He will not actually literally cut out what he hates because it would expose him for a true heretic-divider. That is the real problem here: getting exposed for what they are, by their own words, deeds, and actions, which reveal that they do not really know the Messiah whom they claim to know, love, and worship as "God Almighty in the flesh". One cannot know the Messiah while at the same time neither knowing nor understanding his Testimony. It is unwise to make such a claim because the truth will always come out in what proceeds from the heart and comes forth from their mouths, fingertips, keypads, and keyboards. This becomes even more exaggerated when they run into someone who actually does know the scripture and the Testimony of the Messiah. What they actually know is a very basic set of Trinitarian principles taught be men, which are already widely known by just about everyone, which they have taken and then altered to suit their own fanciful versions of what they desire to believe so as to justify themselves. Most of what they claim is not found in the scripture; for when you ask for the evidence, they either rip a passage out of its context, or quote something which they themselves actually have no clue about what it says or means by the full context and the wider context of the rest of holy writ. :)

Daqq of course loves the playground because he is too weak to exist without his rules that make him feel so big and righteous but he is only 5 years old so what does he know.

daqq
August 4th, 2017, 05:06 PM
Daqq of course loves the playground because he is too weak to exist without his rules that make him feel so big and righteous but he is only 5 years old so what does he know.

See that Freelight? Epoisses confirms everything I just said, which he just quoted and responded to, for the Master plainly says that Moses wrote of him, and no doubt Moses prophesied; but Epoisses needs to belittle Moses the Prophet and man of Elohim because the version of the Messiah which Epoisses has invented does not exist anywhere in the Torah or the Prophets, and Epoisses knows it, because Epoisses can in no way understand the Torah when he reads it: for just as Paul says, there is a veil over the heart, eyes, and mind, when Epoisses reads the primary covenant, and that veil cannot be lifted until the heart turns back toward the Father and such a one immerses in the Testimony of the true Messiah, IN whom, (meaning IN his Testimony), the veil is taken away. Unless one desires to do the will of the Father he cannot know or understand the doctrine, (John 7:15,16,17). The purpose even according to Paul is not to "abolish" the primary covenant but to have the veil removed IN Messiah, (by way of his Testimony which expounds the Torah and Prophets), so that we may truly come to understand and walk in the full Word of the Father in love, light, life, and peace, that is, in the Prince of Peace, Sar Shalom, Meshiah the Word. What we have here is a babe in the body of a man, still suckling on the milk of the Word, pointing his fingers at others and calling them names like five year olds, (lol, again he accuses others of exactly what he is and does, for he projects himself onto others, just as that kind always do), and opens his mouth in condemnation of things he has no clue about. :)

Lazy afternoon
August 4th, 2017, 05:36 PM
By Freelight from the Karma thread--


Why does someone need the 'terror of the Lord'? Karma works of its own lawful accord and compensation. Even if you personalize Deity, or hold a concept of a "personal God",....you still reap what you sow, don't you? Arent souls judged and compensated according to their works? Passages in the Bible do claim this. - because its a fact or lawful principle, that thoughts, words, deeds produce corresponding results.

That is law, without confessing the need for Christ.

If Freelight or Daqq were Christians then they would know the interventions of Christ in their lives to save them from the consequences of their sins.

Instead of becoming new creations through the blood of Christ, both Freelight and daqq are trying to accomplish it by their works, which will never end, nor be accomplished.

LA

daqq
August 4th, 2017, 08:15 PM
By Freelight from the Karma thread--



That is law, without confessing the need for Christ.

If Freelight or Daqq were Christians then they would know the interventions of Christ in their lives to save them from the consequences of their sins.

Instead of becoming new creations through the blood of Christ, both Freelight and daqq are trying to accomplish it by their works, which will never end, nor be accomplished.

LA

You have no clue what you speak of, and neither does your friend Epoisses who has even read my testimony and mocked and scoffed at it, even though it is clear enough that it was how the Master dealt with me and delivered me during the times after the loss of my daughter. I do indeed know the terror of the Lord, (and there are some things, terrible things, which I have never shared with anyone nor posted online anywhere), and those of us who know what that statement from Paul actually means do indeed persuade men, and we do so by way of the scripture as interpreted through the Testimony of the Messiah whose words you trample and reject in your own privately held opinions and dogmas. My doctrine is not my own. You judge the Messiah just about every time you open your mouth and begin to spew your hatred at those who believe and do his Testimony. And you are the hypocrite because you confess a need for physical blood, (which you have no access to), while denying the need for the Testimony of the Messiah, (which you do have access to), because his Testimony does not comply with your dogma.

Lazy afternoon
August 4th, 2017, 08:32 PM
You have no clue what you speak of, and neither does your friend Epoisses who has even read my testimony and mocked and scoffed at it, even though it is clear enough that it was how the Master dealt with me and delivered me during the times after the loss of my daughter. I do indeed know the terror of the Lord, (and there are some things, terrible things, which I have never shared with anyone nor posted online anywhere), and those of us who know what that statement from Paul actually means do indeed persuade men, and we do so by way of the scripture as interpreted through the Testimony of the Messiah whose words you trample and reject in your own privately held opinions and dogmas. My doctrine is not my own. You judge the Messiah just about every time you open your mouth and begin to spew your hatred at those who believe and do his Testimony. And you are the hypocrite because you confess a need for physical blood, (which you have no access to), while denying the need for the Testimony of the Messiah, (which you do have access to), because his Testimony does not comply with your dogma.

Yet you have no problem telling lies about me.

The physical blood of Christ was shed as the atonement for sin.

You claim it was not sufficient to cover the sins of all men.

Men do not go to hell because they sin alone but because they reject the testimony God has given of His Son.

You reject His testimony and claim mans reconciliation to God required no blood atonement, thus you are not reconciled.

(which is why your lying about other people does not bother your conscience.)

LA

daqq
August 4th, 2017, 08:44 PM
Yet you have no problem telling lies about me.

The physical blood of Christ was shed as the atonement for sin.

You claim it was not sufficient to cover the sins of all men.

Men do not go to hell because they sin alone but because they reject the testimony God has given of His Son.

You reject His testimony and claim mans reconciliation to God required no blood atonement, thus you are not reconciled.

(which is why your lying about other people does not bother your conscience.)

LA

You lie again. Please provide the evidence where I have ever said any such thing. Again, put up or shut up, and actually, stop being a coward and open back up your own thread on this very topic, where I have posted a mountain of evidence against your false position, and go put up your argument there where it belongs.

freelight
August 5th, 2017, 02:52 AM
By Freelight from the Karma thread--



That is law, without confessing the need for Christ.

If Freelight or Daqq were Christians then they would know the interventions of Christ in their lives to save them from the consequences of their sins.

Instead of becoming new creations through the blood of Christ, both Freelight and daqq are trying to accomplish it by their works, which will never end, nor be accomplished.

LA

Yes,.....I stand by all my former observations on 'karma'.....and so many other conscious individuals who recognize that 'karma' simply means 'actions' and their consequences, the law of seedtime and harvest, sowing and reaping, described in the scritpures, in many different religious traditions and the universal experience of all men, a universal life-principle. Its not rocket-science, but practical life observation and a law of nature,...."God (law) is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that also he reaps"....and that 'measure for measure'. We've been over this in our 'karma' thread, and the very fact of 'karma', is the determiner of all mans conditions and destiny, since every 'seed' (though, word, action) produces an EFFECT. Fact of life, even though such 'actions' may be further modified by various factors in 'process'.

Concerning Christ's intervention, that depends on what 'theology' you adopt or gospel-version you accept, but grace is of course given freely to all, and it is by grace that any and all are 'saved' of course,...but one's cooperation with that grace is essential which is realized and lived out in 'covenant', a co-operative process, a synergestic union. Man's respons-ability is essential in the equation of life or death, whatever ultimate ends are arrived at by man's choices.

Any are welcome to read your 'challenge thread' (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?123355-Atonement-without-blood-according-to-Freelight&highlight=) on my conceptual understanding of 'blood atonement', and you're welcome to re-open that thread if you like, since more could be said about it. Inner change/transformation comes about thru repentance, surrender to Spirit, the re-turn to 'God', and that is the sacrifice of one's own body and soul at the altar of Spirit, of which the outward rituals of religious ceremony are only symbols. You surrender your own 'self' as a living sacrifice, and this is your reasonable service, because it is the only sacrifice that God really accepts, when done in spirit and truth, which is true worship.

MichaelCadry
August 5th, 2017, 03:42 AM
Dear freelight,

I know what you are saying, but you must also have a relationship with Jesus Christ. Jesus said, "No man comes to the Father, except by Me." Words to that effect. That means, God, the Father. That means that you cannot attain access to God except by Jesus' assistance and know Him and what He's about.

With Love, In Christ,

Michael

:angel: :cloud9: :angel:

daqq
August 5th, 2017, 11:56 AM
Dear freelight,

I know what you are saying, but you must also have a relationship with Jesus Christ. Jesus said, "No man comes to the Father, except by Me." Words to that effect. That means, God, the Father. That means that you cannot attain access to God except by Jesus' assistance and know Him and what He's about.

With Love, In Christ,

Michael

:angel: :cloud9: :angel:

And how do we establish the identity of the Messiah? How do we know who he is?
How do you know for sure that you know him and not some fraud taught by men? :)

freelight
August 5th, 2017, 05:01 PM
And how do we establish the identity of the Messiah? How do we know who he is?
How do you know for sure that you know him and not some fraud taught by men? :)


Well,...thats the million dollar question. Perhaps it deserves its own thread? I treat and interpret the 'Messiah' and 'Christ' archetype mostly by analogy, allegory, metaphysical meaning, figuratively speaking, no matter what can be deduced or assumed historically...its all subjectively interpreted. Everything is.

On a strictly objective basis, one cannot even prove 'God' exists :) (man will add his own meanings, terms, definitions, qualifiers to such a proposition).

People have done fine thru the centuries treating Jesus as a mythological figure, or giving him not much thought at all,...what happened to these precious souls when they passed the mortal veil? Only God knows,...and I have no problem leaving them in God's hands, without my judgment or religious assumptions.

freelight
August 5th, 2017, 05:32 PM
Dear freelight,

I know what you are saying, but you must also have a relationship with Jesus Christ. Jesus said, "No man comes to the Father, except by Me." Words to that effect. That means, God, the Father. That means that you cannot attain access to God except by Jesus' assistance and know Him and what He's about.

With Love, In Christ,

Michael

:angel: :cloud9: :angel:

Well brownie points for some philosophical understanding there, and getting to see some of the direction where I was going :) - its good to just leave it there sometimes, without adding anything.

I'm well aware of John 14:6, and its only in Johns writing where Jesus says anything to that effect, to be percise. One can take John's writings even in their own more spiritual/gnostic context, and have that be its own unique teaching in fact, beyond the other synoptic gospels. Its a pretty cool 'spiritualized' text :) (dont forget some scholars recognize its been 'redacted' more or less).

Jesus was so identified with his connection to Spirit, his relationship to the Father, that he could say that in the presence of his disciples, for that way, truth and life he was referring to,...was EMBODIED, represented and expressed thru and in his very person. Now to objectify this 'way' or to wholly 'personify' it, is subject to interpretation,...but while Jesus was teaching his 'word', it always pointed to the Invisible Father, who as Pure Deity....ALONE was God, who Alone is Life, Truth, Reality, Spirit, Light, etc. Jesus always ushered one's worship to the FATHER ALONE, as the One Infinite Omnipresent Spirit, which by clear relational observation, showed that he was NOT God Almighty, for no man, even if he is a divine eon, luminary, demi-god, archon, angel or of some higher rank son of God. No matter what metaphysical spin you put on it, a 'son' is always a 'son'. But perhaps I digress.

Beyond the religious tradition and standard protocol within Evangelical Christianity on how one is "saved",...the teaching of Jesus can stand on their own, without the usual 'spin' given to them by nominal readers of scripture or pop-theology adherents. I like to take take a multi-dimensional approach. In all of this, what is often misinterpreted is that I deny Jesus his due, or his own exclusive place as the only 'Mediator'. Well, I dont think I ever have,...some just want to pigeonhole me down to accept their 'trans-script',...however, I'm having fun writing my own :) - and 'God' gives me the liberty to do it. Oh such vanity for me to think such a thing! lol. Is that a "sin"? maybe its time to think whether your 'theology' is really in tune with 'reality'...or just wishful thinking or an proposed mind-control program held together by some sector in the collective consciousness?

Now I'm sure we're ready for a most juicy response and perhaps outcry to freelight's verging on the precipice of 'intentional blasphemy' (eye roll) - oh, that could get me banned again, but honey...get over it. Just having fun here for you religionists baptized in lemon juice ;) - let loose a bit. Shake a leg.

Questioning your belief-system or 'assumptions' is a good thing. Sometimes its good to drop all words, ideas and concepts, and just let Life BE. Most mystics of almost every religious tradition have found liberation in some way by doing just that. In the meantime, nothing wrong with systematic theology, doctrinal concepts, dogmas/creeds, beliefs, assumptions....thats fine...just dont get caught in the web of illusion, thinking its real.

Epoisses
August 5th, 2017, 05:39 PM
And how do we establish the identity of the Messiah? How do we know who he is?
How do you know for sure that you know him and not some fraud taught by men? :)

If you haven't figured that out by now then just go home! hint, hint it's not Buddha.

daqq
August 5th, 2017, 05:43 PM
If you haven't figured that out by now then just go home! hint, hint it's not Buddha.

And you have it figured out? Lol, do you not claim to be a "spiritual Israelite"? No true "spiritual Israelite" would trample the Testimony of the Messiah and claim that the Torah has been abolished. That is nothing more than a thief and a robber climbing up into the sheep-pen by some other way.

Epoisses
August 5th, 2017, 05:50 PM
And you have it figured out? Lol, do you not claim to be a "spiritual Israelite"? No true "spiritual Israelite" would trample the Testimony of the Messiah and claim that the Torah has been abolished. That is nothing more than a thief and a robber climbing up into the sheep-pen by some other way.

This idiot hasn't figured out who the Messiah is! Just go away NOOB!

daqq
August 5th, 2017, 06:15 PM
This idiot hasn't figured out who the Messiah is! Just go away NOOB!

I know who he is and what the Torah says about him:

Deuteronomy 18:17-22 KJV
17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

All of this refutes your beliefs and mindset to your face, and it has already been shown to you, for you say that there are many things which your version of the Messiah foretold that have not yet come to pass even now after nearly two thousand years. We are therefore neither to heed nor fear your version of the Messiah because your version is a false Messiah whose words have never come to pass. The same goes for your version of Paul, and your version of the Apocalypse, and what it truly therefore means is not that Messiah, or Paul, or the author of the Apocalypse are wrong, no, but rather, it means that you are the one who is wrong and terribly deceived by your flesh paradigm-ego-god. And by the way your Lazy afternoon friend serves the same fleshmonger-paradigm-ego-god. :crackup:

Interplanner
August 5th, 2017, 07:39 PM
Christ said he was the sacrifice for sins for the whole world. He also said that the city and temple of israel would be destroyed in that generation and it was. I'm not quite sure what is important past that.

he didn't validate the externality of the law, ceremonies, diet, rituals. He did uphold the core. Paul says the Gospel validates the law because the laws convicting decrees render everyone hopeless in debt. He does not validate the law as a way to perform all that is needed for justification, to the disappointment of Judaizers.

daqq
August 5th, 2017, 08:25 PM
Christ said he was the sacrifice for sins for the whole world. He also said that the city and temple of israel would be destroyed in that generation and it was. I'm not quite sure what is important past that.

he didn't validate the externality of the law, ceremonies, diet, rituals. He did uphold the core. Paul says the Gospel validates the law because the laws convicting decrees render everyone hopeless in debt. He does not validate the law as a way to perform all that is needed for justification, to the disappointment of Judaizers.

False premise, go back to page one and look at Reply#12 (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?126059-Establishment-of-the-Identity-of-Christ-and-The-Destruction-of-the-Temple&p=5064610&viewfull=1#post5064610) because, if your premise is correct, then all of the prophetic statements of Matthew 24 and Mark 13 speak of physical and natural things, and therefore all should have been fulfilled in 70AD, (that same generation), but they were not. Thus, you being a partial Preterist, can only get around that fact by making up some reason why it was not all fulfilled in 70AD, perhaps by saying that he must have "not fully known" or must have "left the door open" when he said that "no one knows the day or the hour". In other words your version of the Messiah is also disqualified by the Deut 18:17-22 passage quoted above because according to your belief system, (which is a historical construct, much like the literalist Dispensationist Futurists, while your 70AD timing is the only real difference), not everything which was foretold in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 came to pass in the generation specified, (according to your own understanding).

Prophecy is not a "one-time historical fulfillment" because the Word of Elohim is Living: prophetic scripture is rather to each in his or her own appointed times, and thus, the Testimony happens over, and over, and over again, in the lives of the faithful, (when a child or babe becomes a son, just as Paul strongly implies in Gal 4:1,2). The words of the Messiah are SPIRIT, and they are LIFE, they do not pass away after a one-time historical fulfillment as the carnal physical minded man imagines. All of the signs given by the Master for his disciples are supernal and internal, (for the kingdom of Elohim is within you). It is not a global world-wide apocalypse where a full third of mankind will be annihilated and you will sit back and watch it on TV or the internet, lol, (as the physical historical carnal minded understanding of Rev 9:13,14,15 would demand), but rather it is personal and individual, just as is all of the Gospel, to each in his or her own appointed times, and your apocalypse will not likely be televised, (pray that it is not). :chuckle:

Epoisses
August 5th, 2017, 09:01 PM
Christ said he was the sacrifice for sins for the whole world. He also said that the city and temple of israel would be destroyed in that generation and it was. I'm not quite sure what is important past that.he didn't validate the externality of the law, ceremonies, diet, rituals. He did uphold the core. Paul says the Gospel validates the law because the laws convicting decrees render everyone hopeless

in debt. He does not validate the law as a way to perform all that is needed for justification, to the disappointment of Judaizers.

Daqq is an uber Judaizer like most Christians today. The Law was supposed to convince them of their sin and inability to ever keep it but they never learned the lesson.

daqq
August 5th, 2017, 09:19 PM
Daqq is an uber Judaizer like most Christians today. The Law was supposed to convince them of there sin and inability to ever keep it but they never learned the lesson.

False again. Torah of Elohim is Horeb, and of above, Torah of the mind, (Romans 7, Galatians 4). Torah of Sinai is Torah of sin, (and death), and to be used against the flesh to put to death or to put to sleep your own "unruly members" of your own household, ("Mortify your members which are upon the earth", and, "Mortify the deeds of the body"). Paul gratuitously explains these things to you in his writings but you even deny the words of Paul in your doctrine when they do not fit in with your false gospel theory. Nowhere does Paul tell you to abolish the Torah from your heart and mind as you do. He plainly tells you that the veil over your heart, mind, and eyes, when you read the primary covenant, will not be removed until your heart turns toward the Father, (and you fully immerse in the Testimony of the Messiah), for that veil can only be removed "IN Messiah", meaning IN his Testimony, for his Testimony found in the Gospel accounts expounds the Torah, the Prophets, and the Writings, even all things necessary to understand any true holy writ. Your lack of understanding any such things only reveals that you have not immersed in the all important Testimony of the Master found in the Gospel accounts. And the more time you waste on books from men, while ignoring the Testimony of the Messiah, the more deceived you will become: and it takes a whole lot more time to actually digest the Testimony of Messiah before the Son of Man can even come to open your eyes and give you the keys to it all, (if indeed you overcome in your hour of trial). If you do not ingest that holy food then you will never digest it either: and it will never become part of you. The Sower sows the Seed. The Seed is the Word. The Son must be formed in you for you to one day be delivered. Saying hail Mary's or prefabricated perfectly worded magical sinners prayers are of no good to you if you refuse to eat what the Master has already set before you.

MichaelCadry
August 6th, 2017, 05:40 AM
And how do we establish the identity of the Messiah? How do we know who he is?
How do you know for sure that you know him and not some fraud taught by men? :)


Dear daqq,

You shall know Jesus by learning His teachings and searching Him out. From ALL that He said, you shall know Him. Take care that you are not deceived. Also, you shall know Him by His returning in the sky / heaven back to Earth in the same way He left the Earth, in the sight of His disciples. That will be a sure clue. I don't know what else to tell you but, when I think of another way to know Him for sure, I will post it here for your benefit. I'm really tired right now, as it is 4:30 a.m. and I need to get to bed. The very best to you, freelight!! You know that I am in your corner and praying that you make it to heaven.

God's Blessings In Your Quest For Him And His Son,

Michael

daqq
August 6th, 2017, 12:25 PM
Dear daqq,

You shall know Jesus by learning His teachings and searching Him out. From ALL that He said, you shall know Him. Take care that you are not deceived.

:thumb: Amen!


Also, you shall know Him by His returning in the sky

:doh:

MichaelCadry
August 7th, 2017, 01:20 AM
:thumb: Amen!



:doh:


Dear daqq,

Didn't like that one, eh? I know you follow freelight's Urantia Book posts.

Michael

daqq
August 7th, 2017, 01:56 AM
Dear daqq,

Didn't like that one, eh? I know you follow freelight's Urantia Book posts.

Michael

No, I do not follow anything about Urantia. You would do well to check yourself for lying spirits; they can "creep in unawares", just as the scripture warns you, and especially with a false prophet tail of the dragon such as Epishesh roaming around breathing out lies in every breath. If you consume too much of that poison you will find yourself cast down like a star out of the heavens; swept away by the tail of a lying dragon. :)

MichaelCadry
August 7th, 2017, 02:29 AM
No, I do not follow anything about Urantia. You would do well to check yourself for lying spirits; they can "creep in unawares", just as the scripture warns you, and especially with a false prophet tail of the dragon such as Epishesh roaming around breathing out lies in every breath. If you consume too much of that poison you will find yourself cast down like a star out of the heavens; swept away by the tail of a lying dragon. :)


Dear daqq,

Oh, my mistake. The first time I learned of your name, you were visiting freelight's Urantia post. A number of times. I guess that I am mistaken. I'm sorry! Please forgive me.

May God Be With You,

Michael

daqq
August 7th, 2017, 02:56 AM
Dear daqq,

Oh, my mistake. The first time I learned of your name, you were visiting freelight's Urantia post. A number of times. I guess that I am mistaken. I'm sorry! Please forgive me.

May God Be With You,

Michael

:thumb:

I have only been there once or maybe it was several times in one or two days, (especially if there was a video involved and I did not watch all of it at the same time), and that is as far as I remember; for it was quite a while back, and it was after Freelight had asked me to look at a post of his therein, (which if I remember correctly was actually a post about atonement or something else that he placed in that thread), and that was the only reason I went there. I do not believe in the Urantia stuff, not because I have read or heard much of any of it, (because I have not), but because I do not agree with the whole premise to begin with.

MichaelCadry
August 8th, 2017, 02:49 AM
:thumb:

I have only been there once or maybe it was several times in one or two days, (especially if there was a video involved and I did not watch all of it at the same time), and that is as far as I remember; for it was quite a while back, and it was after Freelight had asked me to look at a post of his therein, (which if I remember correctly was actually a post about atonement or something else that he placed in that thread), and that was the only reason I went there. I do not believe in the Urantia stuff, not because I have read or heard much of any of it, (because I have not), but because I do not agree with the whole premise to begin with.


Dear daqq,

Well, that is the best news I've heard in a long time!! I'm so glad you weren't swayed or misled by his Urantia Book or Urantia Pages. You made my day, actually!! Thanks Tons!!

May God Be With You Always,

Michael

Zeke
August 8th, 2017, 07:32 AM
Well,...thats the million dollar question. Perhaps it deserves its own thread? I treat and interpret the 'Messiah' and 'Christ' archetype mostly by analogy, allegory, metaphysical meaning, figuratively speaking, no matter what can be deduced or assumed historically...its all subjectively interpreted. Everything is.

On a strictly objective basis, one cannot even prove 'God' exists :) (man will add his own meanings, terms, definitions, qualifiers to such a proposition).

People have done fine thru the centuries treating Jesus as a mythological figure, or giving him not much thought at all,...what happened to these precious souls when they passed the mortal veil? Only God knows,...and I have no problem leaving them in God's hands, without my judgment or religious assumptions.

The whole dream is acted out by the same conscience wearing the masks of diversity, the I AM in the only way mantra of the fundamental wing of christian thought is rudimentary understanding we all get entrapped by but some never transcend that base level of teaching in this incarnation, doesn't mean they are less than anyone else just hypnotized into thinking they are a person, Jew, Gentile, Male, Female, in need of salvation when its a dualistic (synthetic/actor) programing dictating their every thought, Jesus/Messiah/name a Saviour ect...being temporal pacifiers until one is weaned from that master slave relationship with who? I AM which has no beginning or end, does I AM need of a saviour! really??? only in the movies Dorthy.

I hear MT Sinai thundering and Quacking, lightning striking all about me, and feel the devil dragons hot breath and the swish of that dreadful tail fanning the eternal flames of hell, it does get hot in Kansas. But whats behind curtain number one it's a little kitten roaring like lion.

freelight
August 12th, 2017, 01:48 AM
:thumb:

I have only been there once or maybe it was several times in one or two days, (especially if there was a video involved and I did not watch all of it at the same time), and that is as far as I remember; for it was quite a while back, and it was after Freelight had asked me to look at a post of his therein, (which if I remember correctly was actually a post about atonement or something else that he placed in that thread), and that was the only reason I went there. I do not believe in the Urantia stuff, not because I have read or heard much of any of it, (because I have not), but because I do not agree with the whole premise to begin with.

Yes, in my commentaries on 'blood atonement' I shared some UB passages on the subject, pertinent to the discussion. There are also other religious writings that REJECT a substitionary blood atonement concept, on ethic and principle alone, since such CANNOT really atone, change or transform a person, beyond their own personal repentance, reparation and re-TURNING to 'God'.

In this case, one must repent or atone for their own sins, and how could it be otherwise?,....the OT is very clear on this matter, despite later 'Christian' innovations and assumptions of 'atonement' developed or assumed later. We've already gone thru this in former commentaries, such as this call out thread here (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?123355-Atonement-without-blood-according-to-Freelight), of which I'm very clear of my views thereon. The issue of 'blood' is wholly symbolic/figurative, its analogy pertaining to issues of soul and spirit. Transformation begins with the mind (psyche) and is consummated or sealed by the Spirit, both working together, for to be spiritually minded is life and peace, as only the Spirit is life. Therefore religion or 'religious experience' is wholly subjective, which affects the whole person and produces the fruits (activity) or 'true religion', since faith without works is DEAD. We could go on....but this is the gist of it.

freelight
August 12th, 2017, 01:59 AM
Dear daqq,

Well, that is the best news I've heard in a long time!! I'm so glad you weren't swayed or misled by his Urantia Book or Urantia Pages. You made my day, actually!! Thanks Tons!!

May God Be With You Always,

Michael

Hi MC,

My response to PPS here (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?67763-The-Late-Great-Urantia-Revelation&p=5080020&viewfull=1#post5080020), applies to you or any reader as well. Dont mistake religious bigotry against one religious book while heralding your own preferred 'book' (even deeming it 'infallible') to be the mark of reality, since the UB or any other religious book valued by religionists may be just as good, if not better than the one you put on a pedestal.

In the light of 'God', all is outshined and illuminated in God's LIGHT, and if anything resonates with such a vibration of goodness, truth and beauty...its source is 'God', and I challenge you to disprove it otherwise. But I wont belabor too much on that point except by creative dialogue to engage your own expansion of consciousness to intuit for yourself, the omnipresence of Spirit, which pervades and enlivens all.

MichaelCadry
August 12th, 2017, 02:40 AM
Hi MC,

My response to PPS here (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?67763-The-Late-Great-Urantia-Revelation&p=5080020&viewfull=1#post5080020), applies to you or any reader as well. Dont mistake religious bigotry against one religious book while heralding your own preferred 'book' (even deeming it 'infallible') to be the mark of reality, since the UB or any other religious book valued by religionists may be just as good, if not better than the one you put on a pedestal.

In the light of 'God', all is outshined and illuminated in God's LIGHT, and if anything resonates with such a vibration of goodness, truth and beauty...its source is 'God', and I challenge you to disprove it otherwise. But I wont belabor too much on that point except by creative dialogue to engage your own expansion of consciousness to intuit for yourself, the omnipresence of Spirit, which pervades and enlivens all.


Dear freelight,

I don't buy your act for a minute. You've been claiming you believe in Jesus' salvation ever since you were questioned if you believe in Jesus. If your book is so great, why hasn't God led millions of people to it, like He has our Bible??? God doesn't lead anyone to your Urantia Book except maybe the people who are screwed up by it. Heaven is full of angels and servants, and saints, not aliens, freelight. And don't tell me that Urantia Pages consider angels aliens. I know you might try that one. There are no aliens, but man does not know it yet. It is a new ploy of Satan, just as he talked the Greeks and Romans to start believing in myths, and Gods; Perseus, Achilles, Medusa. Satan also talked them into believing in flying chariots, just like he does now with flying saucers. Face it, you are full of it, regardless of your fancy words. There is but One God. I understand what all your words say and they are just garbage talk. You think I don't know English and what your words don't say so eloquently, like the Koran which does the same thing, all beautiful words and lies, to confuse people??

I'm Sorry For You, Serve God And Jesus, And How About The Holy Ghost??,

Michael

Epoisses
August 12th, 2017, 07:29 AM
Flaming chariots are real! So are flaming horses and flaming swords. Flaming swords are similar to light sabers but where as a light saber has a long and narrow blade, the flaming sword is angular and jagged like a lightning bolt. The spiritual realm is full of flamers!

freelight
August 13th, 2017, 12:45 AM
Dear freelight,

I don't buy your act for a minute. You've been claiming you believe in Jesus' salvation ever since you were questioned if you believe in Jesus.

Hi MC :)

I've been sharing my theology since 2003 here, and enjoying my evolution in God-consciousness.



If your book is so great, why hasn't God led millions of people to it, like He has our Bible??? God doesn't lead anyone to your Urantia Book except maybe the people who are screwed up by it.

The UB, a religious book among many other religious books, is not "my" book. Many religious books are in my spiritual library,...some are more interesting or inspired than others,...therefore they serve their purposes within different contexts in religious studies, but if they do not support the evolution of the soul and its eternal survival, progress and ascension, their value is more or less questionable. Those interested in the UB can be educated in the thread created for that purpose here (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?67763-The-Late-Great-Urantia-Revelation) :) - One is free under the universal law of 'free will' to do as they please, researching to discover what is true for themselves. Isn't that awesome?

Dont forget,...this isnt a preschool game of whose religious book is better than the others,....and popularity of a book or beliefs about it do not necessarily prove its authenticity, since many fictional works and other literature are best-sellers as well.


Heaven is full of angels and servants, and saints, not aliens, freelight. And don't tell me that Urantia Pages consider angels aliens. I know you might try that one. There are no aliens, but man does not know it yet.

You're under the false impression and mistaken assumption of 'aliens' and such associated with the UB, which some former critics of the UB have fallen prey to as well, which I've addressed FULLY such as in this post here (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?103005-BROTHERHOOD-OF-THE-URANTIA-FANATICS!&p=3981569&viewfull=1#post3981569) and elsewhere. We would recommend a proper edcuation before assuming false information. The UB presents a most wonderful hierarchy of cosmic beings, sons of God and and angelic orders, detailing their ministries and various activities in the cosmos. These beings would not be called 'aliens' but heavenly ministers, celestial personalities and so on. A proper reading of the chapters on these subjects would have informed you about that ;)


It is a new ploy of Satan, just as he talked the Greeks and Romans to start believing in myths, and Gods; Perseus, Achilles, Medusa. Satan also talked them into believing in flying chariots, just like he does now with flying saucers.

Well,...if you want to cover the 'chariots of the gods' and 'flying ships' motif,...these pictures are not necessarily ploys of 'Satan', but clearly described in scriptures as being 'God-sent' and 'empowered',....such as the 'wheels within wheels', strange metallic-like shining objects, strange angelic winged like hover crafts and so on. A UFO-Bible connection can certainly be made, but these connections are not necessarily 'satanic', but this is a subject really outside of the Urantia Book, since the UB has nothing to do with UFO's or 'aliens' as portrayed or understood in modern day pop culture or even in modern day UFOlogy. I have a thread more along these lines under the title 'The Disclosure Project.


Face it, you are full of it, regardless of your fancy words.

I'm enjoying the journey, are you?


There is but One God.

I've never assumed otherwise, as there is Only One Infinite Father-Mother SOURCE from which all things and beings spring. The Universal Father is presented as the First Source and Center of all reality, the generator of all creation,...and indeed.....Deity is ever ONE. - from this infinite center and radiance, all dimensions of existence have their being,...involving and evolving. Such is the nature of Creation, what Creation is about. I've covered this formerly in your thread on the subject here (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?94434-Creation-vs-Evolution&p=3601324&viewfull=1#post3601324);)


I understand what all your words say and they are just garbage talk. You think I don't know English and what your words don't say so eloquently, like the Koran which does the same thing, all beautiful words and lies, to confuse people??

All is available for any truth-seeker to research, explore and discover for themselves. From such investigations, one can determine what has true meaning and value for them.



I'm Sorry For You, Serve God And Jesus, And How About The Holy Ghost??,


I'm just fine,...and Jesus and the Holy Ghost are pretty awesome too. I dont recall ever not respecting the Lord Jesus but recognizing his many different roles, titles, vocations, archetypal offices, ministrations and so on,...I dont put Jesus in a little religious 'box' neither do I PRETEND To know Jesus totally, perfectly or fully, but can by the Spirit know enough to see all that he represents in substance and form, and then have the Spirit RELATE such knowledge to me, but even that, is always subject to progressive revelation.

MichaelCadry
August 13th, 2017, 04:46 AM
Hi MC :)

I've been sharing my theology since 2003 here, and enjoying my evolution in God-consciousness.




The UB, a religious book among many other religious books, is not "my" book. Many religious books are in my spiritual library,...some are more interesting or inspired than others,...therefore they serve their purposes within different contexts in religious studies, but if they do not support the evolution of the soul and its eternal survival, progress and ascension, their value is more or less questionable. Those interested in the UB can be educated in the thread created for that purpose here (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?67763-The-Late-Great-Urantia-Revelation) :) - One is free under the universal law of 'free will' to do as they please, researching to discover what is true for themselves. Isn't that awesome?

Dont forget,...this isnt a preschool game of whose religious book is better than the others,....and popularity of a book or beliefs about it do not necessarily prove its authenticity, since many fictional works and other literature are best-sellers as well.



You're under the false impression and mistaken assumption of 'aliens' and such associated with the UB, which some former critics of the UB have fallen prey to as well, which I've addressed FULLY such as in this post here (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?103005-BROTHERHOOD-OF-THE-URANTIA-FANATICS!&p=3981569&viewfull=1#post3981569) and elsewhere. We would recommend a proper edcuation before assuming false information. The UB presents a most wonderful hierarchy of cosmic beings, sons of God and and angelic orders, detailing their ministries and various activities in the cosmos. These beings would not be called 'aliens' but heavenly ministers, celestial personalities and so on. A proper reading of the chapters on these subjects would have informed you about that ;)



Well,...if you want to cover the 'chariots of the gods' and 'flying ships' motif,...these pictures are not necessarily ploys of 'Satan', but clearly described in scriptures as being 'God-sent' and 'empowered',....such as the 'wheels within wheels', strange metallic-like shining objects, strange angelic winged like hover crafts and so on. A UFO-Bible connection can certainly be made, but these connections are not necessarily 'satanic', but this is a subject really outside of the Urantia Book, since the UB has nothing to do with UFO's or 'aliens' as portrayed or understood in modern day pop culture or even in modern day UFOlogy. I have a thread more along these lines under the title 'The Disclosure Project.



I'm enjoying the journey, are you?



I've never assumed otherwise, as there is Only One Infinite Father-Mother SOURCE from which all things and beings spring. The Universal Father is presented as the First Source and Center of all reality, the generator of all creation,...and indeed.....Deity is ever ONE. - from this infinite center and radiance, all dimensions of existence have their being,...involving and evolving. Such is the nature of Creation, what Creation is about. I've covered this formerly in your thread on the subject here (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?94434-Creation-vs-Evolution&p=3601324&viewfull=1#post3601324);)



All is available for any truth-seeker to research, explore and discover for themselves. From such investigations, one can determine what has true meaning and value for them.




I'm just fine,...and Jesus and the Holy Ghost are pretty awesome too. I dont recall ever not respecting the Lord Jesus but recognizing his many different roles, titles, vocations, archetypal offices, ministrations and so on,...I dont put Jesus in a little religious 'box' neither do I PRETEND To know Jesus totally, perfectly or fully, but can by the Spirit know enough to see all that he represents in substance and form, and then have the Spirit RELATE such knowledge to me, but even that, is always subject to progressive revelation.


Dear freelight,

You are a nut-case. God does not call His angels "cosmic beings." Your jive talk is for the birds. You do not know Jesus well enough to know about Salvation, or to have a personal relationship with Him. Also, you say a UFO-Bible connection could certainly be made, which goes against what the Lord taught me. The 'wheels within wheels' mentioned in Ezekiel was not a UFO.

Listen, I'm tired of your malarkey. I could destroy your words, but I'd rather not bother it with my time, to be honest. Instead I tell you that you lack a real relationship with Jesus and God, and you depict them in error. God is a He, not a she. And your 'the Spirit' does not depict the Holy Ghost. It is a separate entity that you've never been visited by. You reap what you sow, freelight. I've told you to get your act together, but you just don't seem to care, so I'll let you sit where you are, with no further wasting of my time with you. Get your act together and seek Jesus and God, not in your way, but instead, in Christ's way. Learn from your Christian brothers and sisters. All of your fancy talk doesn't get you there, freelight. I've told you before. You do what you want. I'm outta here. Goodbye!!

I Tried, You Don't Seem To Want To,

Michael

freelight
August 15th, 2017, 12:25 AM
Dear freelight,

You are a nut-case. God does not call His angels "cosmic beings." Your jive talk is for the birds. You do not know Jesus well enough to know about Salvation, or to have a personal relationship with Him. Also, you say a UFO-Bible connection could certainly be made, which goes against what the Lord taught me. The 'wheels within wheels' mentioned in Ezekiel was not a UFO.

My former observations hold. Among a hierarchy of ministers, there does appear to be such great beings, forces or realities that even transcend 'personality' so that we might refer to them as great 'cosmic beings' or 'forces', and the UB does describe such wonderful powers or 'force-centers' that are 'intelligent', but these beings are hard to classify under the normal more humanoid or angelic classes or orders of being. Hence the term. I have no problem in using the term 'cosmic', since I nuance it with my own vision of life, since infinity surely includes the entire COSMOS and more.

There certainly are clear UFO and Bible connections, but that would be for another thread, and I havent claimed to know or assume what those UFO's or flying vehicles are, but that these flying objects are described in the scriptures, and are recognized thru-out human civilization, in one form or another as to indicate some heavenly visitations or transportation vessels. This would be a matter of further research. The Bible itself has nothing against such a concept of there being flying craft or vehicles of some kind being used by intelligent entities for whatever reason, as it appears such visions of clouds, chariots, horses, fire, shiny objects, and so on...are depicted in archaic terms, but later have their 'nuance' changed while translated in other languages.

Far beyond a theory of angels using special transport vehicles, or some aspect of their own bodies being the flying vessels, there is ALSO nothing in the bible that teaches against there being other inhabited worlds(planets) in this universe, or in the galaxies beyond this local universe, and such higher advanced civilizations could have transport vehicles (space ships of various kinds) that they use for interstellar travel. These beings from other inhabited worlds may or may not be associated with the more spiritual angelic beings noted elsewhere.



Listen, I'm tired of your malarkey. I could destroy your words, but I'd rather not bother it with my time, to be honest. Instead I tell you that you lack a real relationship with Jesus and God, and you depict them in error. God is a He, not a she. And your 'the Spirit' does not depict the Holy Ghost. It is a separate entity that you've never been visited by. You reap what you sow, freelight. I've told you to get your act together, but you just don't seem to care, so I'll let you sit where you are, with no further wasting of my time with you. Get your act together and seek Jesus and God, not in your way, but instead, in Christ's way. Learn from your Christian brothers and sisters. All of your fancy talk doesn't get you there, freelight. I've told you before. You do what you want. I'm outta here. Goodbye!!

I Tried, You Don't Seem To Want To,

:thumb:

Its all good,...life is about learning. Exploration, research, discovery, then further adventures into the unknown,...this is what life is about. We only have a fraction of knowledge within The INFINITE,....but are nonetheless individual expressions of that One Infinity.

Epoisses
August 15th, 2017, 06:28 PM
Dear freelight,

You are a nut-case. God does not call His angels "cosmic beings." Your jive talk is for the birds. You do not know Jesus well enough to know about Salvation, or to have a personal relationship with Him. Also, you say a UFO-Bible connection could certainly be made, which goes against what the Lord taught me. The 'wheels within wheels' mentioned in Ezekiel was not a UFO.

Listen, I'm tired of your malarkey. I could destroy your words, but I'd rather not bother it with my time, to be honest. Instead I tell you that you lack a real relationship with Jesus and God, and you depict them in error. God is a He, not a she. And your 'the Spirit' does not depict the Holy Ghost. It is a separate entity that you've never been visited by. You reap what you sow, freelight. I've told you to get your act together, but you just don't seem to care, so I'll let you sit where you are, with no further wasting of my time with you. Get your act together and seek Jesus and God, not in your way, but instead, in Christ's way. Learn from your Christian brothers and sisters. All of your fancy talk doesn't get you there, freelight. I've told you before. You do what you want. I'm outta here. Goodbye!!

I Tried, You Don't Seem To Want To,

Michael

How was Elijah taken back up into heaven - in a UFO or in a flaming chariot pulled by flaming horses?

And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. 2Kings 2:11

And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha. 2Kings 6:17

freelight
August 15th, 2017, 06:57 PM
How was Elijah taken back up into heaven - in a UFO or in a flaming chariot pulled by flaming horses?

And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. 2Kings 2:11

And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha. 2Kings 6:17

As I may have noted earlier, this subject deserves its own thread, since terms used in ancient times, could be referring to transport vehicles of some kind, even if these are material or spiritual in nature, or of some other subsistency. Also note the star of Bethlehem,...it did not function as a 'star' does, but more like a flying craft of some kind, either driven or remotely controlled.

Beyond UFO conspiracy theories or 'ancient alien concepts', there is something of interest here, concerning the terms used that could be referring to UFOs in the scriptures. Those poo-pooing the subject might one day be amazed to consider that maybe their 'angels' or 'gods'(elohim) might be just an advanced race of off-world beings whom were esteemed as 'God' or 'god's (again, elohim). Any one of these 'god's could have revealed himself as 'YHWH' and made that name for himself, claiming to be the exclusive or only 'Creator'. Now granted these 'gods' may be actual representatives of the Most High God of all (The Universal Father), or they could be subtle imposters or fallen co-creators (archons, demiurge, eons, etc.) who've infiltrated some inhabited planets,...many possibilities COULD exist in this scenario. In any case,...it would not hurt to bravely question your own concept or belief in 'God/god'...because the 'elohim' of the hebrews was not only 'echad' but 'plural' too,...without bringing the 'Trinity' into this! :)

Anyways, food for thought :) - if time and renewed interest grants....I may dovetail this into a new thread. Will keep it on the back shelf for now.

Epoisses
August 15th, 2017, 08:53 PM
There are also ships of fire called the 'ships of Chittim' from Numbers and Daniel that more closely represent the craft or UFO style ships we are used to hearing about. Whenever the fire of God was called down by Elijah and on Sodom and Gomorrah it quite possibly could have come from one of these ships that was parked overhead. God has cool things that rival the best Sci-Fi movies and most people don't realize it.

For the ships of Chittim shall come against him...And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over Dan. 11:30,40. The whirlwind was mentioned when Elijah was taken up in the chariots and horses of fire.

freelight
August 18th, 2017, 12:29 AM
There are also ships of fire called the 'ships of Chittim' from Numbers and Daniel that more closely represent the craft or UFO style ships we are used to hearing about. Whenever the fire of God was called down by Elijah and on Sodom and Gomorrah it quite possibly could have come from one of these ships that was parked overhead. God has cool things that rival the best Sci-Fi movies and most people don't realize it.

For the ships of Chittim shall come against him...And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over Dan. 11:30,40. The whirlwind was mentioned when Elijah was taken up in the chariots and horses of fire.


Hi Epoisses,

I did some research on 'Chittim' which brought some interesting correlaries more with Rome/Greece, and possibly some ties with China, but not any particularly with 'space ship' vehicles, but perhaps naval ships. I'll keep researching this, but am aware of course of better examples of possible space vehicles in the visions of Ezekiel and others, then we have the 'pillar of cloud by day and fire by night', which could have been a craft of some kind, the star of Bethlehem and other instances, such as chariots of fire, clouds, metallic like objects, lights, etc.

Another thing is the high probability that we are NOT the only inhabited world in this local universe, LET ALONE the infiniverse! (the Grand Universe that may contain MILLIONS of smaller local universes, and outer space regions beyond...)

Epoisses
August 18th, 2017, 07:04 AM
Hi Epoisses,

I did some research on 'Chittim' which brought some interesting correlaries more with Rome/Greece, and possibly some ties with China, but not any particularly with 'space ship' vehicles, but perhaps naval ships. I'll keep researching this, but am aware of course of better examples of possible space vehicles in the visions of Ezekiel and others, then we have the 'pillar of cloud by day and fire by night', which could have been a craft of some kind, the star of Bethlehem and other instances, such as chariots of fire, clouds, metallic like objects, lights, etc.

Another thing is the high probability that we are NOT the only inhabited world in this local universe, LET ALONE the infiniverse! (the Grand Universe that may contain MILLIONS of smaller local universes, and outer space regions beyond...)

Many astute and impeccable theologians relegate that battles of Daniel 11 to the dust bins of history because they fight with horses, chariots, swords and seemingly water-born ships. But when we realize that the angels both good and bad still use these modes of transport, the battles and wars of Daniel 11 take on a whole new meaning and show that the end-times will rival the best Sci-Fi movies of all time. Satan's army will appear with flaming horses, chariots and ships. Michael's army will appear with flaming horses, chariots and ships. And then the war in heaven (atmosphere) will take place and make all human warfare look like playtime.

Zeke
August 18th, 2017, 04:27 PM
Yet the real LORD isn't in the thunder and lightning of the observable world that most christian's have their focus on, the kingdom of heaven is always at hand for those astute enough to leave the fear porn theology behind.

Epoisses
August 18th, 2017, 08:45 PM
Yet the real LORD isn't in the thunder and lightning of the observable world that most christian's have their focus on, the kingdom of heaven is always at hand for those astute enough to leave the fear porn theology behind.

you're incompetent to handle the word of God.

Zeke
August 18th, 2017, 09:09 PM
you're incompetent to handle the word of God.

You're x, "IAM" triple X.
https://youtu.be/9FnO3igOkOk

Epoisses
August 19th, 2017, 08:30 PM
You're x, "IAM" triple X.
https://youtu.be/9FnO3igOkOk

Are you Vin Diesel or Ice Cube?

Elia
August 20th, 2017, 03:35 AM
Daniel 9: 26 also predicts the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.. "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

The Messiah is said to be cut off,


Bs"d

Wrong. Daniel says A messiah will be cut off, and not THE messiah.

Big difference.

For the finer details look here: https://sites.google.com/site/777mountzion/daniel9


Isaiah 53: 3-5 was fulfilled in detail as well

Isaiah 53 speaks about the people of ISRAEL, and not about the messiah.

For the finer details look here: http://Isaiah53.notlong.com


as other prophecies such as Micah 5: 2, "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

Micah 5 is NOT fulfilled, for the finer details see here in the beginning of chapter three "Messianic prophecies": http://MountZion.notlong.com

And the origins in Micah 5 being from "everlasting" is a mistranslation:

Micah 5:2
New American Standard Bible "But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity."

Holman Christian Standard Bible " Bethlehem Ephrathah, you are small among the clans of Judah; One will come from you to be ruler over Israel for Me. His origin is from antiquity, from eternity.

New Life Version "His coming was planned long ago, from the beginning."

Darby Translation "whose goings forth are from of old, from the days of eternity."

American Standard Version "whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting."

All versions of the King James: "whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

Amplified Bible "Whose goings forth have been from of old, from ancient days (eternity).


All the above translation say the origins of the messiah are from "everlasting" or from "eternity", hereby implying that the messiah is God.
The Hebrew words here translated with "from everlasting" or "days of eternity" are "yamei olaam", which means literally "ancient days".
Many Bible translations translate it like that, only the above hold on to "days of eternity", or something with the same implications, because they want to push the wrong Christian idea that the messiah is God himself.

However, also the above translations know how to correctly translate the words "yamei olaam". We see that for instance in Micah 7:14, were the same expression "yamei olaam" is used. See here how the above translate it there:

Holman Christian Standard Bible " Let them graze in Bashan and Gilead as in ancient times."

New Life Version "Let them eat in Bashan and Gilead as in days long ago."

Darby Translation "let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old. "

American Standard Version "let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old."

King James: "let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old."

New American Standard Bible "Let them feed in Bashan and Gilead As in the days of old."

Amplified Bible "they shall feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old."




Another place where the expression "yamei olaam" is used, is in Isaiah 63:11

Holman Christian Standard Bible " Then He remembered the days of the past, [the days] of Moses [and] his people."

New Life Version "Then His people remembered the days long ago, the days of Moses."

Darby Translation "But he remembered the days of old, Moses [and] his people:"

American Standard Version "Then he remembered the days of old, Moses and his people,"

King James: "Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people,"

New American Standard Bible "Then His people remembered the days of old, of Moses"

Amplified Bible "Then His people [seriously] remembered the days of old, of Moses and his people"




Another place where the expression "yamei olaam" is used is Amos 9:11

Holman Christian Standard Bible "In that day I will restore the fallen booth of David: I will repair its gaps,
restore its ruins, and rebuild it as in the days of old,"

New Life Version "In that day I will build again the tent of David that fell down. Yes, I will build it again from the stones that fell down. I will set it up again as it used to be."

Darby Translation "and I will raise up its ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:"

American Standard Version "and I will raise up its ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old;"

King James: "and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:"

Amplified Bible "and I will raise up its ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old,"

New American Standard Bible "I will also raise up its ruins And rebuild it as in the days of old;"



Another place where the expression "yamei olaam" is used is in Malachi 3:4

Holman Christian Standard Bible "And the offerings of Judah and Jerusalem will please the LORD as in days of old and years gone by"

New Life Version "Then the gifts of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the Lord, as they were in the past."

Darby Translation "Then shall the oblation of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto J-e-h-o-v-a-h, as in the days of old, and as in former years."

American Standard Version "Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto J-e-h-o-v-a-h, as in the days of old, and as in ancient years. "

King James: "Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years."

Amplified Bible "hen will the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasing to the Lord as in the days of old and as in ancient years."

New American Standard Bible ""Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the LORD as in the days of old and as in former years."

It should be clear by now for everybody that the expression "yamei olaam" has no bearing on "days of eternity" whatsoever.
It is always translated correct, except there where Christianity wants to push it's dogma of a divine messiah. There the translations are corrupted in order to squeeze in JC.


The Genealogy given in Matthew 1: 1-16 is important in establishing that Jesus Christ in the physical was a descendant from Abraham and David.

Luke .3: 23-38 also gives us the genealogy of Jesus Christ, back to Adam. The existence of the Old Covenant at the time of Christ's birth, ministry and death on the Cross helped to establish the identity of the Messiah.

Well, you have a bit of a problem there, because the genealogies from Matthew and Luke are totally different.


Then, in 70 A.D. the Old Covenant system, which had been in existence from the beginning of the Messianic era at the death of Christ on the Cross to 70 A.D was given a deadly wound, when Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed.

The Temple was destroyed before that, and Judaism recovered quite well from that deadly blow.


Genesis 49: 10 is fulfilled in the birth, ministry and death on the Cross of Christ. "The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be."

From my page on which I speak about the so called "messianic prophecies", https://sites.google.com/site/777mountzion/324x0 a small excerpt about Genesis 49:

Here is an interesting verse that provides the Baptist with five messianic prophecies:

Gen. 49:10...The time of His coming...Lu. 2:1-7; Gal. 4:4
Gen. 49:10.......The Seed of Judah.......Lu. 3:33
Gen. 49:10......Called Shiloh or One Sent......Jn. 17:3
Gen. 49:10...To come before Judah lost identity...Jn. 11:47-52
Gen. 49:10...To Him shall the obedience of the people be...Jn. 10:16

This is refreshing in the sense that this verse does speak about the messiah. By the way, the “recycling” of verses that the Baptists are doing, is one reason why they make it to 324. Here is one verse which, according to the Baptist counting, stands for five messianic prophecies. Other verses account for as many as eight prophecies. But even with this technique they are forced to add verses which have no bearing on the messiah whatsoever, as shown before.

Genesis 49:10 “ The scepter shall not depart from Judah, not a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh comes; and to Him shall be the obedience of the people.”

Christianity sees here “the time of his coming”. The time period in which this prophecy will be fulfilled is clearly given here in Genesis 49. Look in verse 1; “And Jacob called his sons and said, "Gather together, that I may tell you what shall befall you in the last days:” Jacob was telling his sons what would befall them in the end of days. (end of days according to Youngs literal, and in this case correct, translation)

2000 years ago we were obviously not in the last days or end of days. Therefore the messiah could not have come then. Some Christians use the term “the scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet until Shilo comes” to prove that the messiah must have come before Judah lost the kingship with the destruction of the second Temple. However, they forget that the first Jewish king, Shaul, was from the tribe of Benjamin. They forget that during the Babylonian exile after the destruction of the first Temple there was no Jewish king; long before JC the scepter was lost for Judah. So that Christian theory doesn’t make any sense.

He must be from the seed of Judah. Right. The messiah will be a descendent of King David. King David was a descendent of Judah. Judah was a descendent of Israel. (Jacob) Israel was a descendent of Isaac. Isaac was a descendent of Abraham. So the messiah is going to be a descendent of all of these. Also him descending from all of the above is brought by the Baptists as messianic prophecies fulfilled by JC. But there is an enormous problem here: JC was NOT a descendent of King David, and therefore automatically disqualified from being the messiah. Whether or not somebody is a descendant from the tribe of Judah, or from King David, goes through the male line. Therefore the NT gives two totally different, contradicting genealogies, proving that Joseph, the husband of Mary, was a descendent of King David. See Matthew 1 and Luke 3. But even if you believe one of those genealogies, they are useless, because they give the genealogy of Joseph, who was NOT the father of JC. The holy ghost is supposed to be the father of JC. So unless anybody wants to say that the holy ghost was a descendent of King David, JC was not in the male line a descendent of David, and is therefore disqualified from being the messiah.

Called Shiloh or One Sent. Shilo does not mean “the one sent”. Out goes this “messianic prophecy”.

To come before Judah lost identity. In that case he should have come before the destruction of the first Temple. Then already Judah lost its autonomy and was exiled to a foreign country.

To Him shall the obedience of the people be. Are you being obeyed when you are nailed to a cross? Did any nation ever obey him? Does the world now obey him? Also this is an unfulfilled prophecy.


"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant, 4. Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah." Psalm 89: 3-4

The "seed" of David in Psalm 89: 4 is his spiritual seed, as is the promise of the seed from Abraham also being his spiritual seed,.

No, it speaks about physical seed, not spiritual seed.


"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one,

The singular word "seed" is in the Hebrew Bible MANY times used for multiple descendants, for instance: "And I will make your seed (singular) as the stars of heaven;" Gen 26:4

So you cannot draw any conclusions from the fact that the word "seed" is singular.