PDA

View Full Version : Receiving Jesus Christ as Your Lord and Savior



Robert Pate
July 13th, 2017, 09:39 AM
"But as many as received him (Jesus) to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe upon his name" John 1:12.

To receive Christ as your savior is to receive all that he is and all that he has done. The words "Accept" and "Receive" are closely related. When we receive Christ as our savior we also accept Christ as our savior. We accept what he has done to secure our salvation. Many of the Jews did not receive him.

"He came unto his own, and his own did not receive him" John 1:11.

But those that did receive him and believed upon him became the sons of God. There are sons of God and there are sons of the devil. Anyone that tells you that you cannot receive Christ as your savior is a son of the devil. All, everyone, "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13. Salvation is available to EVERYONE that does nothing more than call upon Christ to save them.

Salvation is a FREE GIFT from God. A gift cannot be imposed, earned or deserved. It can only be accepted or rejected.

"And THE GIFT by grace, which is by one man Jesus Christ has abounded unto many" Romans 5:15.

"But THE FREE GIFT is of many offenses unto justification" Romans 5:16.

"The GIFT of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ" Romans 5:17.

"Even so by the righteousness of one THE FREE GIFT came upon all men unto justification of life" Romans 5:18.

Some people are to proud to accept anything that is free. They want to earn what is offered to them. There is NOTHING that we can do to merit salvation. As it is freely offered, so it must be freely received.

Robert Pate
July 14th, 2017, 01:10 PM
Simple child like faith is what makes the Gospel ours. The Gospel is a very simple message that even a small child can understand. Jesus comes into the world to do for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. In our name and on our behalf he offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his holy law. In our name and on our behalf he atones for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. I don't know how it can be any simpler. Paul wrote,

"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ" 2 Corinthians 11:3.

Religion is complicated and hard to understand, but the Gospel is very simple and easy to understand.

jamie
July 14th, 2017, 03:28 PM
In our name and on our behalf he atones for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.


"And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:2-4)

Robert Pate
July 15th, 2017, 11:58 AM
"And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:2-4)

The Holy Spirit will help one to live a clean life and make them a witness for Christ and his Gospel.

jamie
July 15th, 2017, 12:52 PM
The Holy Spirit will help one to live a clean life and make them a witness for Christ and his Gospel.


What defines a clean life?

Is it the commandments as John said?

Robert Pate
July 15th, 2017, 02:32 PM
What defines a clean life?

Is it the commandments as John said?

Christians live their lives as though they were already perfect and complete in Christ, but knowing that they are not. We have, but we have not, Romans 8:22-27.

jamie
July 15th, 2017, 03:02 PM
Christians live their lives as though they were already perfect and complete in Christ, but knowing that they are not. We have, but we have not, Romans 8:22-27.


Do Christians sin? If so what defines sin?

Bright Raven
July 15th, 2017, 03:07 PM
Do Christians sin? If so what defines sin?

The act of violating God's will by transgressing His commandments.

jamie
July 15th, 2017, 03:13 PM
The act of violating God's will by transgressing His commandments.


I agree, but Pate says there are no laws for Christians to transgress.

This of course would mean there is no sin.

"for where there is no law there is no transgression." (Romans 8:15)

Bright Raven
July 15th, 2017, 03:16 PM
I agree, but Pate says there are no laws for Christians to transgress.

This of course would mean there is no sin.

"for where there is no law there is no transgression." (Romans 8:15)

Then He is wrong eh.

Robert Pate
July 15th, 2017, 05:24 PM
I agree, but Pate says there are no laws for Christians to transgress.

This of course would mean there is no sin.

"for where there is no law there is no transgression." (Romans 8:15)

God sees the Christian as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

The Christian sees himself and others as sinners.

patrick jane
July 15th, 2017, 06:01 PM
"And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:2-4)1 Timothy 4:10 KJV -:guitar::guitar:

jamie
July 15th, 2017, 06:06 PM
God sees the Christian as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.


What Bible version are you using that has the word "perfect" in Colossians 2:10?

Ktoyou
July 15th, 2017, 06:23 PM
It's a really good thing, but hard to let go of this world.

Nick M
July 15th, 2017, 07:18 PM
Do Christians sin? If so what defines sin?

Those in Christ do not sin. They cannot sin, as there is no law for us to transgress.

jamie
July 15th, 2017, 08:46 PM
Those in Christ do not sin. They cannot sin, as there is no law for us to transgress.


Why do you say that?

Robert Pate
July 16th, 2017, 09:05 AM
Why do you say that?

Because its true. Christians are no longer under the law, nor are they subject to it. God sees those that have come to Christ as repentant sinners as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

jamie
July 16th, 2017, 10:33 AM
Christians are no longer under the law, nor are they subject to it.


"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments for this is man’s all.
For God will bring every work into judgment including every secret thing, whether good or evil." (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14)

Ask Mr. Religion
July 16th, 2017, 10:38 AM
Do Christians sin? If so what defines sin?
Sin is any want of conformity unto or transgression of the law of God, in the inward state and habit of the soul, as well as in the outward conduct of the life, whether by omission or commission. See 1 John 3:4; Romans 4:15; Romans 6:12-17; Romans 7:5-24.

What is Sin?

Sin is a Specific Kind of Evil

Not all evil is sin. We sometimes confuse sin with physical evil (injurious or calamitous). But we must speak of sin within the ethical sphere of moral good and evil. Even here we need more qualification.

Sin is a moral evil. The names used in Scripture for sin point to its moral character.

1. Chatta'th - an action that misses its mark, deviating from the right way
2. 'Avel and 'avon - a want of integrity and rectitude, a departure from the appointed path
3. Pesha - a revolt or a refusal of subjection to proper authority, a positive transgression of the law, and a breaking of the covenant
4. Resha' - a wicked and guilty departure from the law
5. 'Asham - unfaithfulness and treason,
8. Ma'al - vanity
9. 'Aven - perversion or distortion of nature (crookedness) by 'avah
10. New Testament words for sin - hamartia, adikia, parabasis, paraptoma, anomia, paranomia, and others - point us to the same ideas

From the above there can be no doubt about the ethical moral character of sin.

Sin is not a calamity that came upon man unsuspectingly, poisoning his life, and ruining his happiness. Sin is an evil path deliberately chosen by man to follow and which carries untold miseries with it.

Basically, sin is not something passive, such as a weakness, a fault, or an imperfection, for which man cannot be held responsible. Sin is an active opposition to God, and a deliberate transgression of His law, which constitutes guilt. Sin is the result of a free but evil choice of man. The teachings of the Scriptures plainly teach as such (see Gen. 3:1-6; Isaiah 48:8; Rom. 1:18-32; I John 3:4).

Sin Has an Absolute Character

The contrast between good and evil is absolute in the ethical sphere. No neutral condition exists between good and evil. There are degrees of good and evil, but no gradations between good and evil. Transitioning between one to the other is not quantitative, but qualitative. No good moral being becomes evil by merely diminishing his goodness, rather by turning to sin, thereby effecting a radical qualitative change. Sin is not some lesser degree of goodness. Sin is a positive evil. The Scriptures clearly teach us this, in that the person who does not love God (i.e., obeys God) is characterized as evil. There is no neutral ground. Man is either on the right or wrong side, see (Matthew 10:32,33; Matthew 12:30; Luke 11:23; James 2:10).

Sin Always has Relation to God and His Will

Sin is separation from, opposition to, hatred of, God, manifesting itself in a continual transgression of the law of God in thought, word, and action. Scripture shows that sin is contemplated in relation to God and His law, written on the tablets of the heart, or as given by Moses, see (Romans 1:32, Romans 2:12-14; Romans 4:15; James 2:9; I John 3:4).

Sin Includes Both Guilt and Pollution

Guilt is the state of deserving condemnation or of being liable to punishment for the violation of a law or a moral requirement. Guilt expresses the relation sin bears to justice or to penalty of law. Yet, guilt has a twofold meaning.
(1) Guilt may indicate an inherent quality of the sinner- his demerit or guiltiness, rendering the sinner worthy of punishment. Some refer to this as “potential guilt”, a permanent state, un-removeable by pardon.
(2) Guilt may also indicate the obligation to satisfy justice, to pay for the penalty of sin. Some have called this “actual guilt”. This “actual guilt” is the penal enactment of the lawgiver, who fixes the penalty of guilt. This “actual guilt” may be removed by personally satisfying the just demands of the law, or vicariously.

Some will deny that sin includes guilt, but this contradicts the Scriptures, see (Matthew 6:12; Romans 3:19; Romans 5:18; Ephesians 2:3).

Every sinner is subject to inherent corruption—pollution. Without guilt pollution is not conceivable. But, guilt included in a penal relationship (see (2) above) is conceivable without immediate pollution, but this guilt is always followed by pollution. Adam’s progeny share Adam’s guilt, and are born with a corrupt (polluted) nature. The Scriptures teach the pollution of sin, see (Job 14:4; Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 7:15-20; Romans 8:5-8; Ephesians 4:17-19).

The Seat of Sin is the Heart

Using the psychology of the Scriptures, the central “organ” of the soul is the “heart” (not the blood pump), from which are the issues of life. Sin resides here and not in any one faculty of the soul. From the heart of the soul spread its influence to the intellect, the will, the affections, to the entire man, including man’s body. In this sinful state, the whole person is the object of God’s displeasure.

In some ways it can be said that the will of man is the origination of sin, but the will of man does not indicate an actual volition as much as the will of man indicates the volitional nature of man. In other words, underlying the actual volition when sin entered the world was the tendency of the heart. These views are representative of the Scriptures, see, (Proverbs 4:23; Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 15:19,20; Luke 6:45; Hebrews 3:12).

Sin is Not Exclusively Overt Actions

Indeed, sin not only consists of overt acts, but also sinful habits and in the sinful condition of the soul. They are related to one another as follows:

1. The sinful disposition of the soul is the basis of the sinful habits, and these manifest themselves in sinful deeds. It can also be truthfully said that repeated sinful acts lead to sinful habits.
2. Sinful acts and dispositions of man are explained by a corrupt nature. The verses cited immediately above clearly substantiate this, for they prove that the state or condition of man is thoroughly sinful.
3. And if we ask if the thoughts and affections of the “natural man”, referred to as "flesh" in the Scriptures, should be held to be constituting sin, we answer “yes” by pointing to verses such as: Matthew 5:22,28; Romans 7:7; Galatians 5:17,24.

In summary, we say that sin may be defined as lack of conformity to the moral law of God, either in act, disposition, or state. See (1 John 3:4; Romans 4:15; Romans 6:12-17; Romans 7:5-24).

From the above definition of sin is should be clear that Christians sin every day. We are no longer under the law (do this and live) of God as relates to how we are saved, which is now by grace and faith alone, but our Lord's summary of the two tables of the law (duty to God and duty to our neighbor) has not been abrogated (Matthew 22:36-40).

The true believer will give ample evidence of their desire to do their duty (live and do this) as prescribed by Our Lord. These are the fruits which give evidence that the believer possesses what he or she professes. Of course the believer is not yet perfected, so the believer will stumble and throw himself at the foot of the Cross in sincere repentance, seeking forgiveness, which will be granted.

AMR

jamie
July 16th, 2017, 10:45 AM
It's a long post so I didn't read it all, but it seems like a good post.

It sounds like you disagree with Pate's contention that there is no written guidance for Christians.

If so, I agree.

Pate says Christians cannot sin since they are under no law.

Robert Pate
July 16th, 2017, 01:54 PM
It's a long post so I didn't read it all, but it seems like a good post.

It sounds like you disagree with Pate's contention that there is no written guidance for Christians.

If so, I agree.

Pate says Christians cannot sin since they are under no law.


You have the freedom to believe what you want to.

Sin is the transgression of God's Holy Law. Anything that is evil is against God's law and is sinful.

In the Gospel Jesus fulfills the law and then abolishes it, Ephesians 2:15. He did that for us so that we would not be under it or subject to it, Colossians 2:15.

Where there is no law there is no judgment. To be under the law is to be under condemnation.

Mr. Religion's post is long and confusing, just like his religion.

jamie
July 16th, 2017, 02:36 PM
Where there is no law there is no judgment.


Jesus doesn't judge those who reject him law or not.

Your point is moot.

Robert Pate
July 16th, 2017, 03:16 PM
Jesus doesn't judge those who reject him law or not.

Your point is moot.

Those that have rejected God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided by Jesus Christ are lost.

glorydaz
July 16th, 2017, 04:10 PM
Jesus doesn't judge those who reject him law or not.

Your point is moot.

Really? :readthis:


2 Corinthians 5:9-11
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

jamie
July 16th, 2017, 05:26 PM
Really? :readthis:


:readthis: "And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world." (John 12:47)

So what happens to those who don't believe. Pate says they're lost, but he didn't say for long.

Do you agree with Pate?

glorydaz
July 16th, 2017, 06:01 PM
:readthis: "And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world." (John 12:47)

So what happens to those who don't believe. Pate says they're lost, but he didn't say for long.

Do you agree with Pate?

I'm talking about context. When you quote that one verse, which speaks of one particular thing, you ignore a hundred others that speak of something else.

Jesus was talking about His purpose for His coming....which was to die on the cross.


John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

John 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

All of Scripture speaks of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. He tells us, Himself, that those who believe in Him will have eternal life and those who do not will be condemned. I certainly can't disagree with Pate on that.

jamie
July 16th, 2017, 07:43 PM
He tells us, Himself, that those who believe in Him will have eternal life and those who do not will be condemned.


Condemned for how long?

Jesus judges believers when he needs to, but that is not ideal. He prefers we judge ourselves.

The saints will judge unbelievers on his behalf.

Robert Pate
July 16th, 2017, 08:11 PM
Condemned for how long?

Jesus judges believers when he needs to, but that is not ideal. He prefers we judge ourselves.

The saints will judge unbelievers on his behalf.

They will be condemned to hell for all of eternity. Wake up. That was God's only begotten son dying on the cross for your sins. Do you think that you can ignore that?

glorydaz
July 16th, 2017, 09:06 PM
Condemned for how long?

Jesus judges believers when he needs to, but that is not ideal. He prefers we judge ourselves.

The saints will judge unbelievers on his behalf.

I can see you refused to believe the verses I gave you, and continue to trust in your own hopes.

You do understand that you only have this one lifetime in which to decide, don't you?


Heb. 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

jamie
July 16th, 2017, 09:30 PM
Heb. 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:


Right, we cannot be judged until after we die.

What do you believe is the penalty for sin?

Did God tell Adam that if he sinned he would live forever?

glorydaz
July 16th, 2017, 09:53 PM
Right, we cannot be judged until after we die.

What do you believe is the penalty for sin?

Did God tell Adam that if he sinned he would live forever?

The wages of sin is death.....but the gift of God is eternal life...through Jesus Christ our Lord.

It's pretty simple, isn't it? Why the need of speculation?

Nick M
July 17th, 2017, 06:30 AM
Why do you say that?

Because Paul told us.

jamie
July 17th, 2017, 07:30 AM
The wages of sin is death.....but the gift of God is eternal life...through Jesus Christ our Lord.

It's pretty simple, isn't it? Why the need of speculation?


For the next question. Does death free a person from their sins?

This is very simple, but seems to confuse many people.

Robert Pate
July 17th, 2017, 07:44 AM
For the next question. Does death free a person from their sins?

This is very simple, but seems to confuse many people.

No, many will die in their sins and will go into the judgment in their sins and be condemned.

jamie
July 17th, 2017, 07:46 AM
Because Paul told us.


Paul was not lawless.

He said, "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:2)

The Spirit's law freed him from a another law.

jamie
July 17th, 2017, 07:50 AM
No, many will die in their sins and will go into the judgment in their sins and be condemned.


Wrong.

"For he who has died has been freed from sin." (Romans 6:7)

Robert Pate
July 17th, 2017, 08:28 AM
Wrong.

"For he who has died has been freed from sin." (Romans 6:7)

So, you are going to trust in that? "It is appointed unto man to die and after that the judgement" Hebrews 9:27.

jamie
July 17th, 2017, 02:49 PM
So, you are going to trust in that? "It is appointed unto man to die and after that the judgement" Hebrews 9:27.


Everyone except Jesus has sinned. The penalty given for sin is death. Once the penalty is paid it's gone.

glorydaz
July 17th, 2017, 03:48 PM
For the next question. Does death free a person from their sins?

This is very simple, but seems to confuse many people.

They die in their sins. That's why they must receive the gift of God which is eternal life (before they die in their sins).

glorydaz
July 17th, 2017, 03:50 PM
Wrong.

"For he who has died has been freed from sin." (Romans 6:7)

This is an example of why it's important to know the difference between physical death, death to sin, and spiritual death. You just can't seem to get any of these verses to agree, can you? :chuckle:

glorydaz
July 17th, 2017, 03:54 PM
Paul was not lawless.

He said, "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:2)

The Spirit's law freed him from a another law.

Now you have to understand the difference between laws. You just changed the law of the Spirit of LIFE in Christ Jesus to the "Spirit's law". That isn't the way to get to the bottom of these matters, Jamie.

Nick M
July 17th, 2017, 04:37 PM
Paul was not lawless.



Strawman. Come back when you want to address the point about not being under the law. Lawless refers to actions, not a state of being.

jamie
July 17th, 2017, 07:02 PM
Now you have to understand the difference between laws. You just changed the law of the Spirit of LIFE in Christ Jesus to the "Spirit's law". That isn't the way to get to the bottom of these matters, Jamie.


Are you saying the law of the Spirit is not the Spirit's law?

Yes, Jesus lived by the law of the Spirit. The Spirit is our Father.

The Father expects us to conform to his law.

jamie
July 17th, 2017, 07:04 PM
They die in their sins.


After they die have they then paid for their sins?

glorydaz
July 17th, 2017, 07:50 PM
Are you saying the law of the Spirit is not the Spirit's law?

Yes, Jesus lived by the law of the Spirit. The Spirit is our Father.

The Father expects us to conform to his law.

Well, you can certainly think whatever you like, but you'll have to do some serious scripture twisting to make it work out for you. As you've clearly done already here in this thread. :chew:

glorydaz
July 17th, 2017, 07:52 PM
After they die have they then paid for their sins?

Does a serial killer who dies in the electric chair pay for his sins? You might want to check with the loved ones of those he killed before you answer that question.


Did you realize that being punished is not the same as paying off a debt? Does the debt suddenly get paid when a person is punished?

patrick jane
July 17th, 2017, 07:53 PM
For the next question. Does death free a person from their sins?

This is very simple, but seems to confuse many people.Questions - from jamie

jamie
July 17th, 2017, 08:07 PM
Well, you can certainly think whatever you like, but you'll have to do some serious scripture twisting to make it work out for you. As you've clearly done already here in this thread. :chew:


Do you know the law of the Spirit? Can you recite it?

jamie
July 17th, 2017, 08:12 PM
Does a serial killer who dies in the electric chair pay for his sins? You might want to check with the loved ones of those he killed before you answer that question.


So when the serial killer dies are his sins wiped out? Does the killer have a clean slate?

glorydaz
July 17th, 2017, 08:57 PM
Do you know the law of the Spirit? Can you recite it?

There is nothing to recite. Paul is talking about LIFE IN CHRIST.

The law of sin and death is when you sin, you die.

The law of the Spirit of LIFE in Christ is when you believe, you have LIFE.

It's like the law of gravity. It's a fact....not something you can recite.

glorydaz
July 17th, 2017, 09:07 PM
So when the serial killer dies are his sins wiped out? Does the killer have a clean slate?


So, you missed the point, right?

Robert Pate
July 20th, 2017, 09:56 AM
So when the serial killer dies are his sins wiped out? Does the killer have a clean slate?

"It is appointed unto man to die and after that the judgment" Hebrews 9:27.

jamie
July 20th, 2017, 11:57 AM
"It is appointed unto man to die and after that the judgment" Hebrews 9:27.


And after death he was paid the penalty for sin and now he is free of sin.

"No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed."

(Isaiah 65:20)

Robert Pate
July 20th, 2017, 01:58 PM
And after death he was paid the penalty for sin and now he is free of sin.

"No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed."

(Isaiah 65:20)

That scripture is about the new heaven and the new earth that is in the future.