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Robert Pate
July 6th, 2017, 12:46 PM
I asked Mr. Religion this question, but he didn't answer. Maybe some of the other Calvinist on the Forum can answer the question for him. It is a very simple question that deserves an honest answer. If Calvinist believe that God creates goats so that he can damn then to hell, then Calvinist must conclude that God is an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant.

Here is the problem with believing that about God, it is pure blasphemy. Not only is it blasphemy against God, it is also blasphemy against his Son and the Holy Spirit. There are some Calvinist on the Forum that believe Eve had sex with the serpent and created the goats. This is their way of getting around the problem of God creating goats and being unjust. The devil did it. Here is the problem with that, Satan does not have the power to create anything, much less goats.

How then does one become a goat? Goats are people that have rejected God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided by Jesus Christ, Romans 5:18. Some of the goats are Calvinist that are trying to enter into the sheepfold some other way than by the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Isn't it ironical that those who claim to be sheep are really goats? No one is born a goat. God never has and never will give life to people for the sole purpose of damning them to hell. They damn themselves to hell by rejecting Christ and his Gospel.

nikolai_42
July 6th, 2017, 01:01 PM
I asked Mr. Religion this question, but he didn't answer. Maybe some of the other Calvinist on the Forum can answer the question for him. It is a very simple question that deserves an honest answer. If Calvinist believe that God creates goats so that he can damn then to hell, then Calvinist must conclude that God is an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant.

Here is the problem with believing that about God, it is pure blasphemy. Not only is it blasphemy against God, it is also blasphemy against his Son and the Holy Spirit. There are some Calvinist on the Forum that believe Eve had sex with the serpent and created the goats. This is their way of getting around the problem of God creating goats and being unjust. The devil did it. Here is the problem with that, Satan does not have the power to create anything, much less goats.

How then does one become a goat? Goats are people that have rejected God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided by Jesus Christ, Romans 5:18. Some of the goats are Calvinist that are trying to enter into the sheepfold some other way than by the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Isn't it ironical that those who claim to be sheep are really goats? No one is born a goat. God never has and never will give life to people for the sole purpose of damning them to hell. They damn themselves to hell by rejecting Christ and his Gospel.

The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Proverbs 16:4

The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
Psalm 58:3

So do people come out of the womb neutral? Good? Bad? Or are some good? Neutral? Bad? If you believe that God only creates good people, then you must read it that the devil creates all the rest, right?

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
John 8:44

EDIT: You did specifically say that the devil doesn't create anything...so you need to address this scripture as well.

However, if everyone must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven, then how is it wrong to say that all those born of women are born into sin (and, naturally, are goats)?

Jacob
July 6th, 2017, 01:04 PM
Shalom.

What is being said here is crazy talk. God created goats, yes. And sheep, and lambs.

Shalom.

Jacob

Nang
July 6th, 2017, 01:19 PM
I asked Mr. Religion this question, but he didn't answer. Maybe some of the other Calvinist on the Forum can answer the question for him. It is a very simple question that deserves an honest answer. If Calvinist believe that God creates goats so that he can damn then to hell, then Calvinist must conclude that God is an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant.

Here is the problem with believing that about God, it is pure blasphemy. Not only is it blasphemy against God, it is also blasphemy against his Son and the Holy Spirit. There are some Calvinist on the Forum that believe Eve had sex with the serpent and created the goats. This is their way of getting around the problem of God creating goats and being unjust. The devil did it. Here is the problem with that, Satan does not have the power to create anything, much less goats.

How then does one become a goat? Goats are people that have rejected God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided by Jesus Christ, Romans 5:18. Some of the goats are Calvinist that are trying to enter into the sheepfold some other way than by the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Isn't it ironical that those who claim to be sheep are really goats? No one is born a goat. God never has and never will give life to people for the sole purpose of damning them to hell. They damn themselves to hell by rejecting Christ and his Gospel.

There is only one Creator of mankind, and "Does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use, and another for common use?" Romans 9:21

Nang
July 6th, 2017, 01:23 PM
The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Proverbs 16:4

The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
Psalm 58:3

So do people come out of the womb neutral? Good? Bad? Or are some good? Neutral? Bad? If you believe that God only creates good people, then you must read it that the devil creates all the rest, right?

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
John 8:44

EDIT: You did specifically say that the devil doesn't create anything...so you need to address this scripture as well.

However, if everyone must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven, then how is it wrong to say that all those born of women are born into sin (and, naturally, are goats)?

The devil is not a creator. He is the father of lying spirits and he holds depraved men in bondage through their fear of death, but Satan never had the power to create.

Robert Pate
July 6th, 2017, 02:07 PM
It is true that all men are born sinners, but it is not true that all men are created without hope and are eternally doomed to damnation. To say or to believe that is to blasphemy God and to hold the truth in unrighteousness.

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men WHO HOLD THE TRUTH IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them: for God has showed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen that are made, even his eternal power and God head: so they are without excuse" Romans 1:18-20.

So, when you wind up in hell, don't blame God. YOU ARE WITHOUT AN EXCUSE.

daqq
July 6th, 2017, 02:15 PM
I asked Mr. Religion this question, but he didn't answer. Maybe some of the other Calvinist on the Forum can answer the question for him. It is a very simple question that deserves an honest answer. If Calvinist believe that God creates goats so that he can damn then to hell, then Calvinist must conclude that God is an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant.

Here is the problem with believing that about God, it is pure blasphemy. Not only is it blasphemy against God, it is also blasphemy against his Son and the Holy Spirit. There are some Calvinist on the Forum that believe Eve had sex with the serpent and created the goats. This is their way of getting around the problem of God creating goats and being unjust. The devil did it. Here is the problem with that, Satan does not have the power to create anything, much less goats.

How then does one become a goat? Goats are people that have rejected God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided by Jesus Christ, Romans 5:18. Some of the goats are Calvinist that are trying to enter into the sheepfold some other way than by the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Isn't it ironical that those who claim to be sheep are really goats? No one is born a goat. God never has and never will give life to people for the sole purpose of damning them to hell. They damn themselves to hell by rejecting Christ and his Gospel.


It is true that all men are born sinners, but it is not true that all men are created without hope and are eternally doomed to damnation. To say or to believe that is to blasphemy God and to hold the truth in unrighteousness.

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men WHO HOLD THE TRUTH IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them: for God has showed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen that are made, even his eternal power and God head: so they are without excuse" Romans 1:18-20.

So, when you wind up in hell, don't blame God. YOU ARE WITHOUT AN EXCUSE.

You are making the same mistake Calvinists and Reformers seem to always make: goats are used in the parables of the Master as merely symbolism for devils and demons, (the same as the "tares" among the wheat). The scripture likewise admonishes us not to call any man unclean, (Acts 10:28, and if it is good enough for Peter should it not be good enough for us?). People are not demons, devils, or goats, and therefore people are not cast into literal eternal conscious torment in a literal everlasting fiery hell. The Master likewise tells you that aionion fire is prepared for the Devil and his messengers or angels, (and thus it is symbolic for sins being sent away forever).

Robert Pate
July 6th, 2017, 02:27 PM
You are making the same mistake Calvinists and Reformers seem to always make: goats are used in the parables of the Master as merely symbolism for devils and demons, (the same as the "tares" among the wheat). The scripture likewise admonishes us not to call any man unclean, (Acts 10:28, and if it is good enough for Peter should it not be good enough for us?). People are not demons, devils, or goats, and therefore people are not cast into literal eternal conscious torment in a literal everlasting fiery hell. The Master likewise tells you that aionion fire is prepared for the Devil and his messengers or angels, (and thus it is symbolic for sins being sent away forever).

The reason that Peter said that we should not call any man common or unclean, Acts 10:28, is because Jesus died on the cross for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. There is not one soul on this planet that Jesus did not shed his blood for. Salvation has been provided for everyone, but not everyone wants it.

daqq
July 6th, 2017, 03:11 PM
The reason that Peter said that we should not call any man common or unclean, Acts 10:28, is because Jesus died on the cross for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. There is not one soul on this planet that Jesus did not shed his blood for. Salvation has been provided for everyone, but not everyone wants it.

That does not make them "goats" destined for "everlasting hell fire", (which is prepared for "the Devil and his angels"). Also, when the unclean spirit, (the goat in this allegorical symbolism), is cast out of a man, he traverses through dry-arid desert places seeking rest: and finding none, he says to himself, "I will return to my house from where I came out". And when he comes, he finds it swept and garnished, (with new idols). Then he goes and associates in league with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter therein, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse off than the first, (cf. Luke 11:24-26), for every man is likened to a house in the doctrine, parables, and teachings of the Master. Therefore the Master says, Watch! (Mark 13:37), O porter of the door of your house, (Mark 13:34).

And who shall live when El does this? :chuckle:

Robert Pate
July 6th, 2017, 03:59 PM
That does not make them "goats" destined for "everlasting hell fire", (which is prepared for "the Devil and his angels"). Also, when the unclean spirit, (the goat in this allegorical symbolism), is cast out of a man, he traverses through dry-arid desert places seeking rest: and finding none, he says to himself, "I will return to my house from where I came out". And when he comes, he finds it swept and garnished, (with new idols). Then he goes and associates in league with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter therein, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse off than the first, (cf. Luke 11:24-26), for every man is likened to a house in the doctrine, parables, and teachings of the Master. Therefore the Master says, Watch! (Mark 13:37), O porter of the door of your house, (Mark 13:34).

And who shall live when El does this? :chuckle:


There are only two eternal places, one is heaven, the other is hell. All that are trusting in Christ as their savior are promised eternal life in heaven. Those that reject the free gift of salvation provided by Jesus Christ will be damned to hell. This is what the Bible teaches. The sheep are those that are saved. The lost are goats.

daqq
July 6th, 2017, 04:15 PM
There are only two eternal places, one is heaven, the other is hell. All that are trusting in Christ as their savior are promised eternal life in heaven. Those that reject the free gift of salvation provided by Jesus Christ will be damned to hell. This is what the Bible teaches. The sheep are those that are saved. The lost are goats.

Again, not actually provable by the scripture because you are taking allegories and parables and forcing them into literal realities. Even the parable of the rich man and Lazarus does not end the way it seems most assume that it does, (because of the chapter break put in the wrong place). Lazarus is one of the "little ones" and therefore one cannot understand the parable until he or she understands who are the "little ones" in the doctrine of the Master, (for he came "to save that which was lost", and literal children are not lost). You are mixing human beings with goats and tares in your doctrine.

Robert Pate
July 6th, 2017, 04:46 PM
Again, not actually provable by the scripture because you are taking allegories and parables and forcing them into literal realities. Even the parable of the rich man and Lazarus does not end the way it seems most assume that it does, (because of the chapter break put in the wrong place). Lazarus is one of the "little ones" and therefore one cannot understand the parable until he or she understands who are the "little ones" in the doctrine of the Master, (for he came "to save that which was lost", and literal children are not lost). You are mixing human beings with goats and tares in your doctrine.

Everyone is born lost until they are born again by the word of God, which is the Gospel, 1 Peter 1:23.

The Bible clearly portraits people as sheep or goats. What are you talking about?

jamie
July 6th, 2017, 06:03 PM
The Bible clearly portraits people as sheep or goats.


Goats were used for atonement.

daqq
July 6th, 2017, 06:10 PM
Everyone is born lost until they are born again by the word of God, which is the Gospel, 1 Peter 1:23.

The Bible clearly portraits people as sheep or goats. What are you talking about?

So you say that children are born lost.
Now you sound like a Calvinist-reformer . . . :chuckle:

Jonahdog
July 6th, 2017, 06:21 PM
Shalom.

What is being said here is crazy talk. God created goats, yes. And sheep, and lambs.

Shalom.

Jacob
No, goats evolved.

KingdomRose
July 6th, 2017, 07:02 PM
I asked Mr. Religion this question, but he didn't answer. Maybe some of the other Calvinist on the Forum can answer the question for him. It is a very simple question that deserves an honest answer. If Calvinist believe that God creates goats so that he can damn then to hell, then Calvinist must conclude that God is an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant.

Here is the problem with believing that about God, it is pure blasphemy. Not only is it blasphemy against God, it is also blasphemy against his Son and the Holy Spirit. There are some Calvinist on the Forum that believe Eve had sex with the serpent and created the goats. This is their way of getting around the problem of God creating goats and being unjust. The devil did it. Here is the problem with that, Satan does not have the power to create anything, much less goats.

How then does one become a goat? Goats are people that have rejected God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided by Jesus Christ, Romans 5:18. Some of the goats are Calvinist that are trying to enter into the sheepfold some other way than by the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Isn't it ironical that those who claim to be sheep are really goats? No one is born a goat. God never has and never will give life to people for the sole purpose of damning them to hell. They damn themselves to hell by rejecting Christ and his Gospel.

Of course God doesn't create goats! That idea IS blasphemous. His purpose for creating humans in the first place was so that He could have relationships with other beings that would care for Him as much as He cared for them.....a reciprocal interchange. What purpose at all would He have for creating people who would be hateful for their entire existence? You are right---no one is born a goat. They are responsible for their own destruction.

Jacob
July 6th, 2017, 08:05 PM
No, goats evolved.Shalom.

No. Incorrect.

Shalom.

Jacob

Jonahdog
July 6th, 2017, 08:09 PM
Shalom.

No. Incorrect.

Shalom.

Jacob

You need to study more for the next quiz

Jacob
July 6th, 2017, 08:34 PM
You need to study more for the next quiz

Shalom.

God does not grade me down for saying that goats have not evolved. Since there is no such thing as evolution. God did not create any animal by evolution. Evolution is not true. Animals do not evolve.

Shalom.

Jacob

Jonahdog
July 7th, 2017, 03:34 AM
Shalom.

God does not grade me down for saying that goats have not evolved. Since there is no such thing as evolution. God did not create any animal by evolution. Evolution is not true. Animals do not evolve.

Shalom.

Jacob
You are misguided, on a # of levels.

Truster
July 7th, 2017, 03:37 AM
~Calvinism IS the Gospel, everything else is convenient fiction~

Which simply goes to prove you have no idea what the evangelism (gospel) is nor have you experienced the power therein. Your understanding of the evangelism is speculative and therefore tentative.

Truster
July 7th, 2017, 04:08 AM
:blabla:

Calvin led the Reformation.

Do you understand that?

He led

the historical

Reformation.

You're the one that is confused, hombre :thumb:

You should do a study on the history of the ecclesia. You have made an idol of a man.

Truster
July 7th, 2017, 04:18 AM
The Catholics did that, and you uber right wing morons made idols of yourselves just like the liberals you speak against.

None of you hold a stake in reality, it's really about what serves your interests.

You should do a study on ~waking up~ and realizing how full of crap you all are :wave2:

I have no part whatsoever in the people you speak of. You could never, in your wildest dreams, imagine the part I have and therefore represent.

Truster
July 7th, 2017, 04:26 AM
You have 'Other' listed, I automatically see that as 'pagan', and for a very simple reason- even though Protestants and Catholics are divided, they have both carried orthodox notions which, if you lack, aren't even by definition a Christian :Plain:

So good with that; I don't care about your shady ideology

You do not hold a love of the truth but you do love of the traditions, creeds, confessions and ideologies of men. You have not been converted and you despise the truth.

Truster
July 7th, 2017, 04:40 AM
So your a Madist- you deny things like gentile baptism and whatnot?

:doh:

Tradition is something God has ordained since Moses, it didn't stop with Christ. Jesus simply taught us to be wary of the one's that were vain- that would be many of the things the Roman church instituted in the centuries that followed; but certainly nothing of the Calvinist, Protestant tradition.

Like everyone else of your ilk you seek labels, because you don't have the evangelism in power and so the label becomes all important. Anyone not wearing the Calvin label is an anathema in your sight, but not in the sight of Elohim.

Truster
July 7th, 2017, 05:09 AM
God's name is mentioned in the Bible only as the writers interpreted Him. 'Yahweh' is literally the sound you make when you breath- Elohim isn't even a singular noun, it is the Heavenly Beings collectively; you want to separate yourself from Christianity just like the Messianic Jews, you see, who can't stand to have anything to do with us because they are too damn absorbed in their own self worth.

Using alternative language isn't going to save you here :)

You think what you think because you have been judicially blinded and with every other denominational goat you are in the broad way.

There is nothing that you have to say that I want to hear. There is nothing I have to say that you can hear.

Sherman
July 7th, 2017, 10:34 AM
God's name is mentioned in the Bible only as the writers interpreted Him. 'Yahweh' is literally the sound you make when you breath- Elohim isn't even a singular noun, it is the Heavenly Beings collectively; you want to separate yourself from Christianity just like the Messianic Jews, you see, who can't stand to have anything to do with us because they are too damn absorbed in their own self worth.

Using alternative language isn't going to save you here :)


Hih Cherub IV
l
l
l
l
V
:nuke:

Jacob
July 7th, 2017, 11:17 AM
You are misguided, on a # of levels.Shalom.

I am not on any levels. Salvation does not work like that. I am a Jew, and I believe Yeshua to be the Messiah. It is in Him that we have salvation, the forgiveness of sins. In Him we have the free gift of eternal life.

Shalom.

Jacob

Jacob
July 7th, 2017, 11:23 AM
An MJ :think:

Should Gentiles be Baptized?

(there is a right and wrong answer)

Shalom.

What is an MJ?

Shalom.

Jacob

glassjester
July 7th, 2017, 12:37 PM
No, goats evolved.

Ug... he wasn't talking about literal goats.

He's talking about humans that are damned.

amber59
July 7th, 2017, 12:53 PM
Lordís Day 4Q & A 9

Q.*But doesnít God do us an injustice
by requiring in his law
what we are unable to do?

A.*No, God created human beings with the ability to keep the law.1
They, however, provoked by the devil,2

in willful disobedience,3
robbed themselves and all their descendants of these gifts.4

1*Gen. 1:31;*Eph. 4:24
2*Gen. 3:13;*John 8:44
3*Gen. 3:6
4*Rom. 5:12, 18, 19



Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Robert Pate
July 7th, 2017, 02:17 PM
It is impossible to keep the law. The law is the very nature and character of God. To keep the law you would have to be Jesus Christ. Jesus kept the law for us, then abolished it, Colossians 2:15. Christians are not under the law, nor are they subject to it. To be under the law is to be under condemnation. There are two purposes of the law.

1. The law reveals the nature and character of God. He is holy beyond human comprehension.
2. The law reveals the sinfulness of man. It convicts sinners of the fact that they don't measure up to God's standards.

That's it, there are no other purposes of the law.

jamie
July 7th, 2017, 03:18 PM
That's it, there are no other purposes of the law.


There is one more, God's blessing with regard to eternal life.

"Blessed are those who do His commandments that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter through the gates into the city." (Revelation 22:14)

Robert Pate
July 7th, 2017, 03:31 PM
There is one more, God's blessing with regard to eternal life.

"Blessed are those who do His commandments that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter through the gates into the city." (Revelation 22:14)

When we accept Christ as our savior God sees us as complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. As far as God is concerned we have kept all of the commandments and are perfect and complete "In Christ".

jamie
July 7th, 2017, 06:09 PM
When we accept Christ as our savior God sees us as complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. As far as God is concerned we have kept all of the commandments and are perfect and complete "In Christ".


Delusion.

Jonahdog
July 7th, 2017, 07:44 PM
Ug... he wasn't talking about literal goats.

He's talking about humans that are damned.

Oh, sorry, but they evolved as well.

glassjester
July 7th, 2017, 08:00 PM
Oh, sorry, but they evolved as well.

Yep.

Epoisses
July 7th, 2017, 09:01 PM
There is one more, God's blessing with regard to eternal life.

"Blessed are those who do His commandments that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter through the gates into the city." (Revelation 22:14)

Doing God's commandments is realizing you are a sinner and can never keep any commandment!

Jamie fails.

ttruscott
July 8th, 2017, 12:37 AM
GOD did not create anyone righteous or evil. Everyone created in HIS image was created ingenuously innocent with a free will and with the equal ability and opportunity to chose to be righteous in HIS sight or eternally evil. All evil was our creation by our free will since GOD is light in whom there is no darkness at all...HE is love in whom there is no wickedness at all so no evil or wickedness can come out from HIM.

Goats are self created as goats when they, by their free will, rejected the gospel they heard in Sheol, pre-earth, as mentioned in Colossians 1:23...if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed* to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant. which proclamation has not been fulfilled on earth.

That is why they're doomed already when they are sown into the world, Jn 3:18.

*The tense of the verb proclaimed suggests an action finished in the past but then ongoing, repeated, to the present.

Robert Pate
July 8th, 2017, 01:44 PM
Delusion.

It is a delusion to you, but for me it is a reality.

jamie
July 8th, 2017, 02:09 PM
It is a delusion to you, but for me it is a reality.


I don't doubt it.

You said, "As far as God is concerned we have kept all of the commandments"

If we have kept all the commandments that negates any further judgment of our actions.

What a stupid comment.

Robert Pate
July 8th, 2017, 02:18 PM
I don't doubt it.

You said, "As far as God is concerned we have kept all of the commandments"

If we have kept all the commandments that negates any further judgment of our actions.

What a stupid comment.


That is because the Gospel is stupid to you. You can't understand it, nor can you believe it, 1 Corinthians 2:14. You are about as natural as they come.