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Jacob
July 5th, 2017, 12:56 PM
Shalom.

There is one God, Yahveh.

Shalom.

Jacob

jamie
July 5th, 2017, 02:32 PM
There is one God, Yahveh.


What verse says Yahveh?

The name is a tradition of men, it is not scriptural.

But you're right, there is one God just like the U.S. has one Supreme Court.

Jacob
July 5th, 2017, 02:38 PM
What verse says Yahveh?

The name is a tradition of men, it is not scriptural.

But you're right, there is one God just like the U.S. has one Supreme Court.

Shalom. The Hebrew, from right to left, for the name of God is יהוה

This is a Yod, a Hey, a Vav, and a Hey. There are no vowels indicated for God's name in Hebrew. The pronunciation is a Hebrew pronunciation. Hebrew does not have any letters that are vowels. Vowels have been added to words other than the name of God. But you can pronounce God's name as Yahveh. This may be the correct pronunciation. It is God's name as I know it. It is how I pronounce God's name. HaShem means the name. Sometimes Adonai is substituted for God's name.

Shalom.

Jacob

jamie
July 5th, 2017, 02:50 PM
This is a Yod, a Hey, a Vav, and a Hey. There are no vowels indicated for God's name in Hebrew.


Yod Hey Vav Hey (YHVH) is not the same as Yahveh and it is not the same as Jehovah.

Jacob
July 5th, 2017, 03:00 PM
Yod Hey Vav Hey (YHVH) is not the same as Yahveh and it is not the same as Jehovah.Shalom.

If you are saying YaHVeH, okay. I wrote Yahveh. YHVH is Yod Hey Vav Hey. Hebrew is read from right to left.

God's name is

יהוה

This is, from right to left, the Hebrew letters (pronounced) Yod Hey Vav Hey, or in English, YHVH, from where we and I get Yahveh.

Shalom.

Jacob

jamie
July 5th, 2017, 03:11 PM
This is, from right to left, the Hebrew letters (pronounced) Yod Hey Vav Hey, or in English, YHVH, from where we and I get Yahveh.


And other people get Jehovah, neither is biblical.

Why don't you knock off the shalom stuff?

It's distracting.

Jacob
July 5th, 2017, 03:24 PM
And other people get Jehovah, neither is biblical.

Why don't you knock off the shalom stuff?

It's distracting.
Shalom.

Shalom means peace. I do not know how you think that I have offended you. God's name is Yahveh, which is Hebrew.

There is no J in Hebrew.

YHVH is the English letters for the Hebrew letters Yod Hey Vav Hey.

יהוה

Shalom.

Jacob

jamie
July 5th, 2017, 03:32 PM
There is no J in Hebrew.


Right, the J is an English substitute for Y.

If you prefer you may use Yehovah.

One's good as the other.

TrevorL
July 6th, 2017, 03:13 PM
Greetings Jamie,
Right, the J is an English substitute for Y.
If you prefer you may use Yehovah.
One's good as the other.Have you read Rotherham's introduction where he explains his use of Yahweh in his translation and suggests the use of Jehovah is inappropriate as it was first used incorrectly and because of a misunderstanding.

Kind regards
Trevor

jamie
July 6th, 2017, 05:27 PM
Greetings Jamie,Have you read Rotherham's introduction where he explains his use of Yahweh in his translation and suggests the use of Jehovah is inappropriate as it was first used incorrectly and because of a misunderstanding.


Neither is biblical.

TrevorL
July 6th, 2017, 11:44 PM
Greetings again Jamie,
Neither is biblical.This depends on what you define as Biblical. By my understanding of Biblical, Jehovah is not Biblical as it is suggested that it was first used in the Middle Ages. As far as the Bible is concerned Jehovah is used a few times in the KJV, but YHWH is usually translated as LORD. In Rotherham's translation he uses Yahweh throughout. What is your definition of "biblical"?

Kind regards
Trevor

jamie
July 7th, 2017, 08:54 AM
What is your definition of "biblical"?


I use English versions of the Bible supported by various Bible aids such as the Jewish Encyclopedia.

English uses many words without vowels, but YHVH was unnecessarily transliterated as LORD, not Yahweh.

I see YHVH as a standalone word like TV or Dr or Ms.

I understand that YHVH is a word referring to an inherently eternal person.

Neither humans nor angelic beings are inherently eternal.

TrevorL
July 8th, 2017, 01:35 AM
Greetings again Jamie,
I use English versions of the Bible supported by various Bible aids such as the Jewish Encyclopedia.
English uses many words without vowels, but YHVH was unnecessarily transliterated as LORD, not Yahweh.
I see YHVH as a standalone word like TV or Dr or Ms.
I understand that YHVH is a word referring to an inherently eternal person.
Neither humans nor angelic beings are inherently eternal.Yes I see it as important to recognise that the word YHVH occurs many times in the OT and different translations represent this in English in various ways. If you were in a meeting, and you were called upon to read out loud before a speaker gave an address, on say Isaiah 50 (as I was called upon two weeks ago), where the Divine Name occurs in Isaiah 50:1, 4, 5, 7 what would you read, and possibly bearing on this what translation would you use? Would you stop and spell out the letters Y - H - V - H on each occasion?

Kind regards
Trevor

jamie
July 8th, 2017, 07:36 AM
Greetings again Jamie, Yes I see it as important to recognise that the word YHVH occurs many times in the OT and different translations represent this in English in various ways. If you were in a meeting, and you were called upon to read out loud before a speaker gave an address, on say Isaiah 50 (as I was called upon two weeks ago), where the Divine Name occurs in Isaiah 50:1, 4, 5, 7 what would you read, and possibly bearing on this what translation would you use? Would you stop and spell out the letters Y - H - V - H on each occasion?


I would use the word Eternal.

TrevorL
July 8th, 2017, 04:00 PM
Greetings again Jamie,
I would use the word Eternal.But that is unBiblical. You are replacing the Word of God with your own assessment. If Jesus read Isaiah 50 at Nazareth in his earlier years would he have pronounced YHWH, even if his contemporaries had fallen into the bad habit of not pronouncing the Name?

Kind regards
Trevor

jamie
July 8th, 2017, 04:16 PM
Greetings again Jamie,But that is unBiblical. You are replacing the Word of God with your own assessment.


Eternal is what YHVH is referring to. Only God has eternal life.

TrevorL
July 8th, 2017, 06:09 PM
Greetings again Jamie,
Eternal is what YHVH is referring to. Only God has eternal life.He is all-powerful as well, and many other attributes, but He only has One Name and He chose to reveal His Name. But if that is what you like, then you are welcome to it. Another aspect is Isaiah 12:2 where we have Yah Yahweh. I suppose you could read Eternal, Eternal or Eter, Eternal.

Kind regards
Trevor

jamie
July 8th, 2017, 09:41 PM
Greetings again Jamie,He is all-powerful as well, and many other attributes, but He only has One Name and He chose to reveal His Name.


Since the Most High is not a Hebrew why would he have a Hebrew name such as Yahweh or one of the many variations?

TrevorL
July 9th, 2017, 12:39 AM
Greetings again jamie,
Since the Most High is not a Hebrew why would he have a Hebrew name such as Yahweh or one of the many variations?Are you denying that God revealed His Name to Moses? Possibly God chose His Name in Hebrew because He chose to reveal Himself to the nation of Israel who spoke Hebrew. Also He chose to reveal His Name and the meaning of His Name at the time when He would deliver Israel out of Egypt. The meaning of His Name is intimately connected with this deliverance as I have suggested in another thread.

In the NT the emphasis is not on the Hebrew Name of God, but the relationship between Jesus and God, and hence we see God the Father revealed, and we see our Lord Jesus Christ as the Son of God.

Kind regards
Trevor

jamie
July 9th, 2017, 07:01 AM
In the NT the emphasis is not on the Hebrew Name of God, but the relationship between Jesus and God, and hence we see God the Father revealed, and we see our Lord Jesus Christ as the Son of God.


What Hebrew name of God did Jesus use?

TrevorL
July 10th, 2017, 12:57 AM
Greetings again jamie,
What Hebrew name of God did Jesus use?When Jesus read from the Isaiah scroll he would have read the Hebrew Name for God, Yahweh in whatever form or pronunciation that was common in his day. He read from Isaiah 61:1-2 and this is recorded in the following:
Luke 4:16-19 (KJV): 16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

But as I said before, in the NT the emphasis is not on the Hebrew Name of God, but the relationship between Jesus and God, and hence we see God the Father revealed, and we see Jesus the Son of God. Jesus taught the disciples to pray “Our Father”, and on one occasion when he alluded to and quoted Psalm 8, he did not use “Yahweh”, but used “Father”. The following is Jesus’ succinct and beautiful summary of Psalm 8:1-3:
Matthew 11:25 (KJV): At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Psalm 8:1-3 (KJV) 1 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens. 2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger. 3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

With the failure of the Jews, and the Gospel now going out to the Gentiles, the word “Father” is used, and in all the different countries where the Gospel would reach this word is readily translatable, not needing to understand the Hebrew “Yahweh”. When considered properly “Father” is similar in concept to Yahweh which means “He will be or become”, He will bring to the birth not just the nation of Israel under Moses, but he will have sons and daughters, who start off as babes and sucklings in faith and trust and praise, through the Firstborn of his New Creation, the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ.

In the near future when Christ returns and a significant remnant of natural Israel is converted then the concept that they and also the surrounding nations will know that God is Yahweh will again be understood, as witnessed by many OT prophecies.

Kind regards
Trevor

jamie
July 10th, 2017, 08:24 AM
When Jesus read from the Isaiah scroll he would have read the Hebrew Name for God


Is it possible Jesus knew the correct pronunciation for the Hebrew version of the person he referred to as our Father?

Is it possible Jesus knew our Father was not Hebrew and that our Father did not descend from Abraham?

Paul asked, "Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles?" (Romans 3:29)

Is it possible Paul knew our Father was not from Abraham and must be referred to by a Hebrew name?

Is it possible the Sacred Names theory is just a diversion, a trick of the Adversary, haSatan?

TrevorL
July 10th, 2017, 04:26 PM
Greetings again jamie,
Is it possible Jesus knew the correct pronunciation for the Hebrew version of the person he referred to as our Father?Yes, and I suggest that at that time the Name was well known and generally used, especially when reading from the Hebrew scrolls.
Is it possible Jesus knew our Father was not Hebrew and that our Father did not descend from Abraham? I consider this as a nonsense question. God chose to reveal His Name in Hebrew.
Paul asked, "Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles?" (Romans 3:29) The OT Scriptures were first written in Hebrew because of God’s principal dealing with Israel. When the time came for the gospel to be spread more fully to the Gentiles after the resurrection the NT Scriptures were written in Greek and translated into other languages and to prepare for this Jesus revealed God as His Father and asked us to pray “Our Father”.
Is it possible Paul knew our Father was not from Abraham and must be referred to by a Hebrew name? Again I consider this as a nonsense question. It is acceptable to refer to God as Yahweh, and it is acceptable to read YHVH as Yahweh when reading say Isaiah 50.
Is it possible the Sacred Names theory is just a diversion, a trick of the Adversary, haSatan?I am not sure of what you are referring to, but again I consider that this as a nonsense suggestion. There is no diversion if we seek to understand God's revelation of His Name.

In conclusion, because of this discussion I decided to reread Rotherham’s introduction, and made a summary of this to help fix the ideas he suggested, and I recommend reading this introduction. Also when I had a closer look at the Hebrew of the 5 occurrences of Yahweh in Isaiah 50, the first and the last has different vowel points to that of the second, third and fourth. This confirms that the Massorites added these vowel points from Adonai and Elohim to prompt the reader to not pronounce the Name, but to substitute these titles when reading. This also disproves the suggestion that Jehovah is the correct spelling and pronunciation as this spelling only agrees with the first and last occurrence of YHVH in Isaiah 50.

Kind regards
Trevor