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beloved57
July 3rd, 2017, 12:39 PM
Rom 9:8

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

First of all from this scripture we know the Children of the Promise and the Children of God are one and the same !

Secondly, the Children of the Promise and the Children of God are counted for the Seed !

What evidences who this Seed is ? Gal 4:28,29

Now we, brethren[Believers in Christ], as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him[Isaac] that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

The Children of Promise are those born after the Spirit ! That is by the Power of the Holy Spirit The New Birth, a Supernatural Birth apart from natural birth . All born again believers are the Seed, the Children of Promise !

Robert Pate
July 3rd, 2017, 01:07 PM
Rom 9:8

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

First of all from this scripture we know the Children of the Promise and the Children of God are one and the same !

Secondly, the Children of the Promise and the Children of God are counted for the Seed !

What evidences who this Seed is ? Gal 4:28,29

Now we, brethren[Believers in Christ], as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him[Isaac] that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

The Children of Promise are those born after the Spirit ! That is by the Power of the Holy Spirit The New Birth, a Supernatural Birth apart from natural birth . All born again believers are the Seed, the Children of Promise !


Which heresy school did you graduate from?

"For the promise is unto you and to your children and to all that are afar off, even to as many as the Lord or God shall call" Acts 2:39. And the Lord calls everyone, Hebrews 2:9.

Nanja
July 3rd, 2017, 03:16 PM
Rom 9:8

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

First of all from this scripture we know the Children of the Promise and the Children of God are one and the same !




Secondly, the Children of the Promise and the Children of God are counted for the Seed !

What evidences who this Seed is ? Gal 4:28,29

Now we, brethren[Believers in Christ], as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him[Isaac] that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

The Children of Promise are those born after the Spirit ! That is by the Power of the Holy Spirit The New Birth, a Supernatural Birth apart from natural birth . All born again believers are the Seed, the Children of Promise !


Amen, and those that never experience this Supernatural New Birth by the Power of the Holy Spirit, it bears evidence they were not Children of Promise, the Chosen Seed of Abraham, the Seed of Christ Gal. 3:16; Eph. 1:4.

Rom. 8:9b
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Epoisses
July 3rd, 2017, 03:45 PM
Rom 9:8

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

First of all from this scripture we know the Children of the Promise and the Children of God are one and the same !

Secondly, the Children of the Promise and the Children of God are counted for the Seed !

What evidences who this Seed is ? Gal 4:28,29

Now we, brethren[Believers in Christ], as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him[Isaac] that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

The Children of Promise are those born after the Spirit ! That is by the Power of the Holy Spirit The New Birth, a Supernatural Birth apart from natural birth . All born again believers are the Seed, the Children of Promise !

All men are born of the flesh or the fallen nature of Adam.

All men have been placed into the incarnated body of Christ.

Only those who are born of the Spirit receive the merits of Christ.

glorydaz
July 3rd, 2017, 04:08 PM
All men are born of the flesh or the fallen nature of Adam.

All men have been placed into the incarnated body of Christ.



Do you have any verses to support those claims?

Or are you forced to speculate such is true?

Epoisses
July 3rd, 2017, 05:29 PM
Do you have any verses to support those claims?

Or are you forced to speculate such is true?

All men and women are born of the flesh. This is self-evident and I don't see how it could be debated.

There are three possibilities with Christ:

A) He was a single solitary man which leaves us with no connection to him.

B) He was an incarnated God/man who lived, died and bore the sins of the elect or sheep only.

C) He was an incarnated God/man or the 2nd Adam who lived, died and bore the sins of the whole world.

Take your pick.

beloved57
July 3rd, 2017, 05:42 PM
Amen, and those that never experience this Supernatural New Birth by the Power of the Holy Spirit, it bears evidence they were not Children of Promise, the Chosen Seed of Abraham, the Seed of Christ Gal. 3:16; Eph. 1:4.

Rom. 8:9b
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Exactly!

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glorydaz
July 3rd, 2017, 05:50 PM
All men and women are born of the flesh. This is self-evident and I don't see how it could be debated.

It's the sin nature I was questioning. Jesus was born of the flesh. He had a human nature, as we do.


There are three possibilities with Christ:

A) He was a single solitary man which leaves us with no connection to him.

B) He was an incarnated God/man who lived, died and bore the sins of the elect or sheep only.

C) He was an incarnated God/man or the 2nd Adam who lived, died and bore the sins of the whole world.

Take your pick.

C of the three, but your statement, "All men have been placed into the incarnated body of Christ" is beyond that.

Epoisses
July 3rd, 2017, 06:06 PM
It's the sin nature I was questioning. Jesus was born of the flesh. He had a human nature, as we do.

C of the three, but your statement, "All men have been placed into the incarnated body of Christ" is beyond that.

The whole world was in the first man Adam in his DNA. They were not all physically present inside him.

When I say the whole world was in Christ it is the spiritual counter-part or the 2nd Adam.

glorydaz
July 3rd, 2017, 06:15 PM
The whole world was in the first man Adam in his DNA. They were not all physically present inside him.

When I say the whole world was in Christ it is the spiritual counter-part or the 2nd Adam.

Ah, the old sin is passed through the DNA story. Then Christ would have that same sin in Him. He was born of woman....born of the seed of David. It's amazing how many buy the original sin story about sin being passed down. :carryon:

Epoisses
July 3rd, 2017, 06:19 PM
Ah, the old sin is passed through the DNA story. Then Christ would have that same sin in Him. He was born of woman....born of the seed of David. It's amazing how many buy the original sin story about sin being passed down. :carryon:

Sin is passed down thru the DNA! You were born a sinner. You didn't become one after your first theft of a gumball at age 4 or you first lie to mommy and daddy.

glorydaz
July 3rd, 2017, 07:14 PM
Sin is passed down thru the DNA! You were born a sinner. You didn't become one after your first theft of a gumball at age 4 or you first lie to mommy and daddy.

See what stuff you've picked up from Calvin and the Catholics.....total depravity.

According to you and them, man does have an excuse. God says man is without excuse.

Epoisses
July 3rd, 2017, 08:49 PM
See what stuff you've picked up from Calvin and the Catholics.....total depravity.

According to you and them, man does have an excuse. God says man is without excuse.

The very first step on the path of righteousness is seeing yourself as a sinner who has never done one good thing. That's not Calvinism it's Christianity.

glorydaz
July 3rd, 2017, 09:53 PM
The very first step on the path of righteousness is seeing yourself as a sinner who has never done one good thing. That's not Calvinism it's Christianity.

Children are not sinners until they choose evil over good. If you believe in man's inability and depravity, that's Calvinism. Too bad so many people can't see that. :sigh:

You have to ignore a lot of verses to not see there are innocents....sin is not passed down through man's DNA. We are fearfully and wonderfully made...thus we are without excuse just as God says we are. That we inevitably choose evil in this evil world of sin doesn't mean we inherited Adam's sin. Many a false doctrine has come from that idea.


Psalm 139:14
I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.


Isaiah 7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

Matthew 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Epoisses
July 4th, 2017, 06:45 AM
Children are not sinners until they choose evil over good. If you believe in man's inability and depravity, that's Calvinism. Too bad so many people can't see that. :sigh:

You have to ignore a lot of verses to not see there are innocents....sin is not passed down through man's DNA. We are fearfully and wonderfully made...thus we are without excuse just as God says we are. That we inevitably choose evil in this evil world of sin doesn't mean we inherited Adam's sin. Many a false doctrine has come from that idea.


Psalm 139:14
I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.


Isaiah 7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

Matthew 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Children are born sinners but they are covered by the faith of believing parents until they reach an age of accountability which in Jewish minds was 12.

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Acts 16:31

beloved57
July 4th, 2017, 07:21 AM
Which heresy school did you graduate from?

"For the promise is unto you and to your children and to all that are afar off, even to as many as the Lord or God shall call" Acts 2:39. And the Lord calls everyone, Hebrews 2:9.

Evasion and Rabbit trail. Do you want to discuss the OP points ?

beloved57
July 4th, 2017, 07:49 AM
The Children of Promise come into being both physically and spiritually as a result of Gods Promise and Power as it was with Isaac, so Paul tells believers this Gal 4:28

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Now did Isaac become a Child of Promise by exercising his own freewill decision ? Did God give Isaac an option to chose or reject an offer to become a child of promise ?

No, of course not. Lets look at the circumstances of the birth of Isaac. We read Gen 18:9-10,14

9 And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent.
10 And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.

Thats a Promise right there, Sarah shall have a Son !

14 Is any thing too hard for the Lord? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.

Before that Gen 17:19

And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

God had already given this Child of Promise his name before he was born "thou shalt call his name Isaac"



You see God never consulted the will of Isaac on whether or not he wanted to be a Child of Promise. Neither did God consult his parents will on whether or not Isaach could be a child of promise, so Jesus says of them born of or after the Spirit this Jn 1:13

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Now all believers are born after the manner of how Isaach was, Children of Promise. Even the believers physical birth was determined by God in order to bring about their Spiritual Birth and subsequent Faith. Believers dont become so because of their own freewill, but because of Gods Power and Will in creating Children of Promise for Abraham. God promised Abraham a numerous Spiritual seed after the manner of Isaac, Children of Promise to be born after the Spirit Gen 17:2-5


2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.


Now Believers In Christ are a result of Gods Promise here !

glorydaz
July 4th, 2017, 02:38 PM
Children are born sinners but they are covered by the faith of believing parents until they reach an age of accountability which in Jewish minds was 12.

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Acts 16:31

This is exactly the kind of speculation that leads to so many false doctrines. :nono:

oatmeal
July 4th, 2017, 02:53 PM
Rom 9:8

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

First of all from this scripture we know the Children of the Promise and the Children of God are one and the same !

Secondly, the Children of the Promise and the Children of God are counted for the Seed !

What evidences who this Seed is ? Gal 4:28,29

Now we, brethren[Believers in Christ], as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him[Isaac] that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

The Children of Promise are those born after the Spirit ! That is by the Power of the Holy Spirit The New Birth, a Supernatural Birth apart from natural birth . All born again believers are the Seed, the Children of Promise !

Yes, that is right!

Epoisses
July 4th, 2017, 07:21 PM
This is exactly the kind of speculation that leads to so many false doctrines. :nono:

No the sad truth of dispensational arminianism is that they cannot even admit they are sinners. Jesus came into the world to save sinners not righteous people! The apostle Paul said he was the chief of sinners and are you better than him? The sweet little innocent baby who never hurt anyone is a child of sin and unless his parents place him under grace by their faith in Christ he will grow up and become assimilated into the world.

glorydaz
July 4th, 2017, 07:51 PM
No the sad truth of dispensational arminianism is that they cannot even admit they are sinners. Jesus came into the world to save sinners not righteous people! The apostle Paul said he was the chief of sinners and are you better than him? The sweet little innocent baby who never hurt anyone is a child of sin and unless his parents place him under grace by their faith in Christ he will grow up and become assimilated into the world.

If Paul was the chiefest of sinners, as you seem to understand that text, then I'm a monkey's uncle. If you think your children are saved because you are, and your unsaved neighbor's children are damned, then you believe God is a respecter of persons. Children are not responsible for the sins of their fathers, and we are all saved individually.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that some cannot admit they WERE sinners. Check the tense....such were some of you. Do you hang onto the the title of sinner because you reject Christ's work on the cross, or what?