PDA

View Full Version : What Does it Mean to be Born Again?



Pages : [1] 2 3

Robert Pate
July 3rd, 2017, 11:01 AM
Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God" John 3:3.

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit" John 3:6.

Peter wrote, "Being born again, not of corruptible seed (Adam) but of incorruptible, BY THE WORD OF GOD, which lives and abides forever" 1 Peter 1:23

Being born again is about receiving the Holy Spirit. We are all born into the world as lost sinners and need to be born again by the word of God. The word of God is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Those that have been born again are those that have heard the Gospel and believe it. There is no other way to be born again. Catholics believe that they are born again by the works of the law. Do good works, obey the Catholic church and you will be born again. Calvinist believe that some how, at some time, God's zapps them with the Holy Spirit and they are born again. Both of these doctrines are false.

Paul wrote to the Galatians, "This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith?" (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

On the day of Pentecost when the Gospel first came into the world in the power of the Holy Spirit, thousands heard the Gospel, believed the Gospel and were born again, Acts 2:41. It was the preaching of the Gospel that gave birth to the New Testament church, Acts 2:41-47. The book of Acts is a book about how God in the power of the Holy Spirit is sending the "Good News" of his Son Jesus Christ into all of the world. The Holy Spirit transformed the lowly disciples into powerful preachers of the Gospel, Acts 4:13-22.

I was born again when I turned on the TV and heard these words, "But that thy blood was shed for thee". That is all that I heard. Billy Graham was giving the alter call. The Holy Spirit convicted me of my need for Christ and I became a Christian. That was 48 years ago, I have not been the same since. The change was that I became interested in spiritual things and less interested in things of the flesh. The transformation was slow but sure. The transformation is not what saved me, I was saved by the doing and the dying of Jesus Christ.

I have heard of people being born again by simply reading the Bible. A traveling salesman checked into a motel and found a Bible in the night stand that had been placed there by the Giddeons. He opened the Bible to the book of John and started reading it, just like me, the Holy Spirit convicted him of his need for Jesus Christ and he became a Christian. There are numerous accounts of people being saved in the New Testament. This is why Paul wrote...

So then faith comes by hearing and hearing BY THE WORD OF GOD (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

Truster
July 3rd, 2017, 11:11 AM
Knowledge of the need for salvation is not salvation.

Robert Pate
July 3rd, 2017, 11:17 AM
Knowledge of the need for salvation is not salvation.

Of course it is. You first have to believe that you are a sinner in need of a savior.

Truster
July 3rd, 2017, 11:25 AM
Of course it is. You first have to believe that you are a sinner in need of a savior.

Judas thought that.

Robert Pate
July 3rd, 2017, 01:20 PM
Judas thought that.

There is nothing in the Bible about the conversion of Judas. You like to make things up.

Truster
July 3rd, 2017, 01:28 PM
There is nothing in the Bible about the conversion of Judas. You like to make things up.

The fact that Judas was not converted is the fact I was expressing. Judas thought the same way as you, but it did him no good.

jsanford108
July 3rd, 2017, 01:35 PM
What Catholics actually believe:

Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1991: Justification is at the same time the acceptance of God's righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ. Righteousness (or "justice") here means the rectitude of divine love. With justification, faith, hope, and charity are poured into our hearts, and obedience to the divine will is granted us.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

jamie
July 3rd, 2017, 01:42 PM
What does it mean to be born again?

It means we have a spiritual body and a spiritual mother.

Spiritual bodies are non-material and therefore invisible.

Robert Pate
July 3rd, 2017, 02:03 PM
What Catholics actually believe:

Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1991: Justification is at the same time the acceptance of God's righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ. Righteousness (or "justice") here means the rectitude of divine love. With justification, faith, hope, and charity are poured into our hearts, and obedience to the divine will is granted us.


The big difference between Catholicism and Protestantism Is that Catholics believe that the virtues of Jesus Christ are infused into them, making them pleasing to God.

Protestants believe that the righteousness of Christ is imputed to them, but they don't have it yet. It is to their account.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

jsanford108
July 3rd, 2017, 02:22 PM
I know. I'd be speechless, too.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)

Nanja
July 3rd, 2017, 04:56 PM
Of course it is. You first have to believe that you are a sinner in need of a savior.

Before a person is Born of the Spirit, their own believing is nothing but a work of the flesh!

Rom. 8:5-8
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Nick M
July 3rd, 2017, 05:19 PM
Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God" John 3:3.

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit" John 3:6.

Peter wrote, "Being born again, not of corruptible seed (Adam) but of incorruptible, BY THE WORD OF GOD, which lives and abides forever" 1 Peter 1:23

Being born again is about receiving the Holy Spirit.

Not based on what you posted. We occupy a body of corruptible seed. We are not yet resurrected.

Nick M
July 3rd, 2017, 05:20 PM
Knowledge of the need for salvation is not salvation.

Oh, shut up. Alice go find some other little girl to play with, go dress up dolls or something.

Robert Pate
July 3rd, 2017, 09:17 PM
Not based on what you posted. We occupy a body of corruptible seed. We are not yet resurrected.

True, we are sinners saved by grace. We see ourselves and others as sinners.

However, God does not see us as sinners. He sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

This is the condition for giving us the Holy Spirit.

Robert Pate
July 3rd, 2017, 09:21 PM
Before a person is Born of the Spirit, their own believing is nothing but a work of the flesh!

Rom. 8:5-8
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Are you calling Jesus a Liar?

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, but have everlasting life" John 3:16.

Nick M
July 3rd, 2017, 09:37 PM
True, we are sinners saved by grace. We see ourselves and others as sinners.

However, God does not see us as sinners. He sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

This is the condition for giving us the Holy Spirit.

We are not born again, as told in John 3. The Lord Jesus Christ stated the standards. There is flesh, and there is Spirit. There is not a third choice. The standard he said is verse 8. Nobody does that, except the Lord Jesus Christ himself.

Nick M
July 3rd, 2017, 09:38 PM
Are you calling Jesus a Liar?



He is.

Truster
July 3rd, 2017, 10:34 PM
Oh, shut up. Alice go find some other little girl to play with, go dress up dolls or something.

You have some worrying images of little girls in your mind. You've even started giving them names.

Nick M
July 3rd, 2017, 10:43 PM
You have some worrying images of little girls in your mind. You've even started giving them names.

:chuckle:

Truster
July 3rd, 2017, 10:48 PM
:chuckle:

The inane laughter doesn't help, Old Nick.

Bard_the_Bowman
July 4th, 2017, 12:08 AM
What Catholics actually believe:

Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1991: Justification is at the same time the acceptance of God's righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ. Righteousness (or "justice") here means the rectitude of divine love. With justification, faith, hope, and charity are poured into our hearts, and obedience to the divine will is granted us.

Wait, what?? But Robert said Catholics believe they are born again by the "works of the law".

What a dilemma.

Whom to believe...Robert or the Church?

Nanja
July 4th, 2017, 05:46 AM
Are you calling Jesus a Liar?

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, but have everlasting life" John 3:16.


The word "world" used in John 3:16 is the word "kosmos" which simply means:

any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G2889&t=KJV


The World that God so Loved and gave His only begotten Son for is the World of His Church.

Eph. 5:25
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

John 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

God's Purpose for the World He gave His only begotten Son for is that they shall all be Saved.




But there is a world Christ did not give Himself for, neither does He pray for.

John 17:9
I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

1 Cor. 11:32
But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.


So also, there is condemned world that shall remain permanently under God's Wrath.

And it's because they are already condemned, that they shall not be given to believe on Christ!

John 3:18, 36
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Cross Reference
July 4th, 2017, 06:48 AM
Of course it is. You first have to believe that you are a sinner in need of a savior.

And you must make a choice, correct??

Cross Reference
July 4th, 2017, 06:51 AM
Before a person is Born of the Spirit, their own believing is nothing but a work of the flesh!

Rom. 8:5-8
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Which is more the reason why most church goers [professers of Jesus Christ] aren't born again.

Cross Reference
July 4th, 2017, 06:53 AM
True, we are sinners saved by grace.
.

Why, when we are called a saints? Should "saints" be given to sin?

Zeke
July 4th, 2017, 07:47 AM
Informant, thats your dear sweet moms role when she ignorantly sales you into dept slavery by signing the persona birth certificate. Until you figure that one out you are the walking dead. Zekes crazy man we are free as a franchise.
Thats why they made all those zombie movies to throw it in your face yet you are to blind to see it.

beloved57
July 4th, 2017, 08:18 AM
Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God" John 3:3.

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit" John 3:6.

Peter wrote, "Being born again, not of corruptible seed (Adam) but of incorruptible, BY THE WORD OF GOD, which lives and abides forever" 1 Peter 1:23

Being born again is about receiving the Holy Spirit. We are all born into the world as lost sinners and need to be born again by the word of God. The word of God is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Those that have been born again are those that have heard the Gospel and believe it. There is no other way to be born again. Catholics believe that they are born again by the works of the law. Do good works, obey the Catholic church and you will be born again. Calvinist believe that some how, at some time, God's zapps them with the Holy Spirit and they are born again. Both of these doctrines are false.

Paul wrote to the Galatians, "This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith?" (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

On the day of Pentecost when the Gospel first came into the world in the power of the Holy Spirit, thousands heard the Gospel, believed the Gospel and were born again, Acts 2:41. It was the preaching of the Gospel that gave birth to the New Testament church, Acts 2:41-47. The book of Acts is a book about how God in the power of the Holy Spirit is sending the "Good News" of his Son Jesus Christ into all of the world. The Holy Spirit transformed the lowly disciples into powerful preachers of the Gospel, Acts 4:13-22.

I was born again when I turned on the TV and heard these words, "But that thy blood was shed for thee". That is all that I heard. Billy Graham was giving the alter call. The Holy Spirit convicted me of my need for Christ and I became a Christian. That was 48 years ago, I have not been the same since. The change was that I became interested in spiritual things and less interested in things of the flesh. The transformation was slow but sure. The transformation is not what saved me, I was saved by the doing and the dying of Jesus Christ.

I have heard of people being born again by simply reading the Bible. A traveling salesman checked into a motel and found a Bible in the night stand that had been placed there by the Giddeons. He opened the Bible to the book of John and started reading it, just like me, the Holy Spirit convicted him of his need for Jesus Christ and he became a Christian. There are numerous accounts of people being saved in the New Testament. This is why Paul wrote...

So then faith comes by hearing and hearing BY THE WORD OF GOD (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

You dont believe the Gospel, you teach that sinners Christ died for are still lost ! How is that believing the Gospel !

Robert Pate
July 4th, 2017, 08:37 AM
We are not born again, as told in John 3. The Lord Jesus Christ stated the standards. There is flesh, and there is Spirit. There is not a third choice. The standard he said is verse 8. Nobody does that, except the Lord Jesus Christ himself.


The Christian is both a sinner and a saint at the same time.

We are born again by the Gospel, which is the word of God, 1 Peter 1:23.

Cross Reference
July 4th, 2017, 08:42 AM
The Christian is both a sinner and a saint at the same time.

We are born again by the Gospel, which is the word of God, 1 Peter 1:23.

We are born again "by the "Word" of God, which lives forever"! Born again from above! The same Word of God that inhabited the body of Jesus Christ: 1Pet1:23 KJV.

"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you". Romans 8:11 (KJV)

Learn something for a change.

Robert Pate
July 4th, 2017, 08:51 AM
We are born again "by the "Word" of God, which lives forever"! Born again from above! The same Word of God that inhabited the body of Jesus Christ: 1Pet1:23 KJV.

"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you". Romans 8:11 (KJV)

Learn something for a change.

You don't have anything new.

God's Truth
July 4th, 2017, 09:03 AM
Born again happens when we confess our sins to Jesus and repent of them, he then washes us clean and lives inside us and puts us in him. We then have a new life with no sins. We are born again.

Robert Pate
July 4th, 2017, 09:09 AM
Born again happens when we confess our sins to Jesus and repent of them, he then washes us clean and lives inside us and puts us in him. We then have a new life with no sins. We are born again.

That is about as Catholic as it gets.

God's Truth
July 4th, 2017, 09:11 AM
That is about as Catholic as it gets.

No it isn't. You are just trying too hard to be insulting.

Born again is having a new life without sins because we are washed by Jesus and he lives in us in our new life, he makes our new life.

Robert Pate
July 4th, 2017, 09:20 AM
No it isn't. You are just trying too hard to be insulting.

Born again is having a new life without sins because we are washed by Jesus and he lives in us in our new life, he makes our new life.

The Catholics would welcome you with open arms.

Nick M
July 4th, 2017, 09:28 AM
The Christian is both a sinner and a saint at the same time.



No. We who have died have been freed from sin. We occupy a dead body that does no right, but we are not identified with it. And that is not about John 3:8 which states what somebody born of the Spirit is like.

God's Truth
July 4th, 2017, 09:32 AM
No. We who have died have been freed from sin. We occupy a dead body that does no right, but we are not identified with it. And that is not about John 3:8 which states what somebody born of the Spirit is like.

Are you saying you do no right?

God's Truth
July 4th, 2017, 09:34 AM
The Catholics would welcome you with open arms.

No they wouldn't, false teacher. You don't even know that Jesus' blood washes away our sins.

I go against the false teachings of the Catholics, just like I go against your false teachings.

Cross Reference
July 4th, 2017, 09:47 AM
No it isn't. You are just trying too hard to be insulting.

Born again is having a new life without sins because we are washed by Jesus and he lives in us in our new life, he makes our new life.


How many who are born again still sin?

jamie
July 4th, 2017, 10:32 AM
The Christian is both a sinner and a saint at the same time.


We are God's temple and he does not coexist with sin.

Robert Pate
July 4th, 2017, 10:44 AM
We are God's temple and he does not coexist with sin.

So, you think that you are without sin like GT?

Robert Pate
July 4th, 2017, 10:48 AM
How many who are born again still sin?

Everyone.

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" 1 John 1:8.

The worst kind of a sinner is one that thinks that he doesn't.

God's Truth
July 4th, 2017, 11:03 AM
Everyone.

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" 1 John 1:8.

The worst kind of a sinner is one that thinks that he doesn't.

That scripture is about being saved in the first place, because if you say you have no sin, it means you did not repent, and you must repent to be saved.

God's Truth
July 4th, 2017, 11:04 AM
So, you think that you are without sin like GT?

We have to work out our salvation with trembling and fear of doing wrong. We have to train ourselves. Why do you like to mock God's Word?

God's Truth
July 4th, 2017, 11:05 AM
How many who are born again still sin?

If anyone does sin, we have an advocate.

Cross Reference
July 4th, 2017, 11:37 AM
We have to work out our salvation with trembling and fear of doing wrong. We have to train ourselves. Why do you like to mock God's Word?

And one can't begin that until one is born again, correct?

Cross Reference
July 4th, 2017, 11:38 AM
Everyone.

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" 1 John 1:8.

The worst kind of a sinner is one that thinks that he doesn't.

Of course you are speaking only for yourself, correct?

Robert Pate
July 4th, 2017, 11:42 AM
Of course you are speaking only for yourself, correct?


The scripture speaks for its self. If the shoe fits, wear it.

jamie
July 4th, 2017, 11:48 AM
So, you think that you are without sin like GT?


Does sin cause condemnation?

Robert Pate
July 4th, 2017, 11:52 AM
Does sin cause condemnation?

A broken law is what brings condemnation.

Cross Reference
July 4th, 2017, 12:02 PM
A broken law is what brings condemnation.

And what law are you thinking of that Jesus did not fulfill, RP?

Robert Pate
July 4th, 2017, 12:40 PM
And what law are you thinking of that Jesus did not fulfill, RP?

Jesus fulfilled all of the law and he fulfilled it perfectly, Matthew 5:18.

jamie
July 4th, 2017, 12:42 PM
A broken law is what brings condemnation.


"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:1-2)

What is the Spirit's law?

Robert Pate
July 4th, 2017, 12:49 PM
"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:1-2)

What is the Spirit's law?

The law of the Spirit is the Gospel. In the Gospel we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30 and now stand before God as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

jamie
July 4th, 2017, 12:54 PM
The law of the Spirit is the Gospel. In the Gospel we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30 and now stand before God as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.


Is this the same gospel the OT church heard?

"For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them" (Hebrews 4:2)

The same gospel for the NT church as was preached to the OT church.

Is that what you mean?

Robert Pate
July 4th, 2017, 01:22 PM
Is this the same gospel the OT church heard?

"For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them" (Hebrews 4:2)

The same gospel for the NT church as was preached to the OT church.

Is that what you mean?

There is no Gospel in the Old Testament. The Gospel was revealed to the apostles on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2.

We don't know who the "Them" is in Hebrews 4:2.

God's Truth
July 4th, 2017, 01:40 PM
And one can't begin that until one is born again, correct?

You can begin that anytime, and when you need help, call on Jesus to help you.

No one is born again until they have been washed clean and received the Spirit of God.

God's Truth
July 4th, 2017, 01:43 PM
A broken law is what brings condemnation.

Colossians 3:23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.

Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart,you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

God's Truth
July 4th, 2017, 01:45 PM
"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:1-2)

What is the Spirit's law?

The Spirit's law is all the law, old and new.

Do you love others as you love yourself?

I don't think you do, but that is my humble opinion.

God's Truth
July 4th, 2017, 01:47 PM
The law of the Spirit is the Gospel. In the Gospel we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30 and now stand before God as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

The old law was Spiritual too.

You don't even know that Jesus' blood washes us.

You should stop trying to be a teacher and admit the things you say are against God.

God's Truth
July 4th, 2017, 01:49 PM
There is no Gospel in the Old Testament. The Gospel was revealed to the apostles on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2.

We don't know who the "Them" is in Hebrews 4:2.

It is pathetic what you say about God's Word.

Robert Pate
July 4th, 2017, 01:52 PM
The old law was Spiritual too.

You don't even know that Jesus' blood washes us.

You should stop trying to be a teacher and admit the things you say are against God.


Washing is symbolic for justification. You want to avoid the doctrine of justification because it refutes your holiness doctrine. It appears that you hate Paul and his epistles.

God's Truth
July 4th, 2017, 01:54 PM
Washing is symbolic for justification. You want to avoid the doctrine of justification because it refutes your holiness doctrine. It appears that you hate Paul and his epistles.

What kind of spirit do you have that keeps on as if it is right when it knows it is wrong?

lifeisgood
July 4th, 2017, 01:56 PM
There is no Gospel in the Old Testament. The Gospel was revealed to the apostles on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2.

We don't know who the "Them" is in Hebrews 4:2.

Oh, c'mon Robert Pate. The Gospel is displayed in shadow in the OT. That's why Paul said that the Bereans were smart dudes to check him out. Where do you think the Bereans go to check Paul out? To the NT that didn't exist yet?

Robert Pate
July 4th, 2017, 02:23 PM
Oh, c'mon Robert Pate. The Gospel is displayed in shadow in the OT. That's why Paul said that the Bereans were smart dudes to check him out. Where do you think the Bereans go to check Paul out? To the NT that didn't exist yet?

No one really understood what Jesus had accomplished in his life, death and resurrection until the day of Pentecost, Acts 2.

Cross Reference
July 4th, 2017, 03:17 PM
The scripture speaks for its self. If the shoe fits, wear it.

I agree but then that means yours are the wrong feet.

Robert Pate
July 4th, 2017, 03:42 PM
I agree but then that means yours are the wrong feet.

That is your opinion. You have nothing to back up your opinion.

jamie
July 4th, 2017, 05:29 PM
We don't know who the "Them" is in Hebrews 4:2.


"This is he who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the Angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai" (Acts 7:38)

This may well be over your head.

The OT church resisted God's Spirit.

"You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you." (Acts 7:51)

People were added to the church. (Acts 2:47)

jamie
July 4th, 2017, 05:32 PM
The Spirit's law is all the law, old and new.


The Spirit's law is the law the Spirit wrote with his own finger.

lifeisgood
July 4th, 2017, 09:43 PM
No one really understood what Jesus had accomplished in his life, death and resurrection until the day of Pentecost, Acts 2.

I wonder then, why did Paul commended the Bereans and not the Thessalonians.

Cross Reference
July 5th, 2017, 04:30 AM
No one really understood what Jesus had accomplished in his life, death and resurrection until the day of Pentecost, Acts 2.

You have more stuff with you than a Christmas turkey.

Cross Reference
July 5th, 2017, 04:31 AM
That is your opinion. You have nothing to back up your opinion.

Try me! Put up or shut up!

Cross Reference
July 5th, 2017, 04:37 AM
"This is he who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the Angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai" (Acts 7:38)

This may well be over your head.

The OT church resisted God's Spirit.

"You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you." (Acts 7:51)

People were added to the church. (Acts 2:47)

Good thinking here, Jamie. But then, it could be the church [Bride of Christ] as we understand it, began in John 20:22. Either way, I can receive it.

jamie
July 5th, 2017, 08:42 AM
Good thinking here, Jamie. But then, it could be the church [Bride of Christ] as we understand it, began in John 20:22. Either way, I can receive it.


"Then he remembered the days of old, Moses and his people, saying: 'Where is He who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of His flock? Where is He who put His Holy Spirit within them'" (Isaiah 63:11)

Moses was the original pastor of God's congregation to which people were added in the NT congregation.

The OT group was converted to the NT group.

"He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins." (Colossians 1:13)

The pronoun "us" refers to those redeemed by Jesus' blood with regard to the forgiveness of sins.

God's Truth
July 5th, 2017, 10:33 AM
Oh, c'mon Robert Pate. The Gospel is displayed in shadow in the OT. That's why Paul said that the Bereans were smart dudes to check him out. Where do you think the Bereans go to check Paul out? To the NT that didn't exist yet?

Robert Pate got it right that Calvinists are false, but he can't see his own flaws.

God's Truth
July 5th, 2017, 10:34 AM
I agree but then that means yours are the wrong feet.

You are a Calvinist/Lutheran, and a nowadays tongue speaker/prophesier.

You go against what God says.

God's Truth
July 5th, 2017, 10:35 AM
That is your opinion. You have nothing to back up your opinion.

You go against what is plainly written.

God's Truth
July 5th, 2017, 10:36 AM
The Spirit's law is the law the Spirit wrote with his own finger.

Contention is not good. Are you agreeing or not?

The Spirit's law is all the law, old and new.

Robert Pate
July 5th, 2017, 01:44 PM
You go against what is plainly written.

It is plainly written that your righteousness stinks.

God's Truth
July 5th, 2017, 04:00 PM
It is plainly written that your righteousness stinks.

That is what you say about God cleaning me.

Robert Pate
July 6th, 2017, 08:52 AM
That is what you say about God cleaning me.

You don't believe that you have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30.

If you did you would not be preoccupied with your holiness. We are called to REST in the Gospel. You are not resting, you are still trying to be good enough, Hebrews 4:10.

Ask Mr. Religion
July 6th, 2017, 08:59 AM
Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God" John 3:3.

More redundant posting that has been answered, yet ignored by you, Robert:

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?120598-Receiving-Christ-as-Your-Savior&p=4848714&viewfull=1#post4848714

AMR

Robert Pate
July 6th, 2017, 09:23 AM
More redundant posting that has been answered, yet ignored by you, Robert:

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?120598-Receiving-Christ-as-Your-Savior&p=4848714&viewfull=1#post4848714

AMR


Being born again is something that you do not understand. It is a subjective experience that happens when some one accepts the fact that they are a lost sinner and need to be saved. You have never been there.

jsanford108
July 6th, 2017, 09:26 AM
Being born again is something that you do not understand. It is a subjective experience that happens when some one accepts the fact that they are a lost sinner and need to be saved. You have never been there.

If it is subjective, then it is not eternal. Only "objective" things are eternal.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)

Robert Pate
July 6th, 2017, 09:33 AM
If it is subjective, then it is not eternal. Only "objective" things are eternal.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)


Then why did Jesus tell Nick that he needed to be born again? John 3:7.

Ask Mr. Religion
July 6th, 2017, 09:54 AM
Then why did Jesus tell Nick that he needed to be born again? John 3:7.

This is why:
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?120598-Receiving-Christ-as-Your-Savior&p=4848714&viewfull=1#post4848714

Take up and read, Robert.

AMR

Robert Pate
July 6th, 2017, 10:05 AM
This is why:
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?120598-Receiving-Christ-as-Your-Savior&p=4848714&viewfull=1#post4848714

Take up and read, Robert.

AMR


The words of Jesus refute you. "That WHOSOEVER believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" John 3:15.

The call is to believe in Jesus. Nothing about being predestinated or being forced to believe in Jesus.

Ask Mr. Religion
July 6th, 2017, 10:18 AM
The words of Jesus refute you. "That WHOSOEVER believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" John 3:15.

The call is to believe in Jesus. Nothing about being predestinated or being forced to believe in Jesus.Nothing in my provided explanation of the passage in question speaks directly to predestination, Robert. The point of Our Lord's statement is to point out that no one can born themselves, as it is something God does. Our Lord is not telling Nicodemus to take personal responsibility and save himself. Man is born again, regenerated, from above. Afterwards, said man will take personal responsibility and believe, for in this regenerated state man will not not want to believe. Think about it and maybe it will come to you.

AMR

Robert Pate
July 6th, 2017, 10:41 AM
Nothing in my provided explanation of the passage in question speaks directly to predestination, Robert. The point of Our Lord's statement is to point out that no one can born themselves, as it is something God does. Our Lord is not telling Nicodemus to take personal responsibility and save himself. Man is born again, regenerated, from above. Afterwards, said man will take personal responsibility and believe, for in this regenerated state man will not not want to believe. Think about it and maybe it will come to you.

AMR


There is NOTHING in the New Testament about anyone receiving the Holy Spirit without hearing and believing the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.

jsanford108
July 6th, 2017, 11:18 AM
Then why did Jesus tell Nick that he needed to be born again? John 3:7.

Because he had to to receive eternal life. Still objective.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)

Cross Reference
July 6th, 2017, 11:42 AM
Because he had to to receive eternal life. Still objective.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)

Nicodemus was a righteous man. Had he died before the cross he would have gone to the abode of the righteous dead, Paradise, abraham's bosom to await Jesus to set him free.

Robert Pate
July 6th, 2017, 11:54 AM
Nicodemus was a righteous man. Had he died before the cross he would have gone to the abode of the righteous dead, Paradise, abraham's bosom to await Jesus to set him free.

There is no record that Nick responded to Jesus message of being born again, nor does it say that Nick believed on Jesus. John 3:12 indicates that Nick was an unbeliever.

God's Truth
July 7th, 2017, 09:13 AM
You don't believe that you have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30.

If you did you would not be preoccupied with your holiness. We are called to REST in the Gospel. You are not resting, you are still trying to be good enough, Hebrews 4:10.

You just proved you are a speaker of untruths.

Jesus justified, sanctified and redeemed me.

You are the one who preaches falseness and goes against God.

You said Jesus does not wash us.

LOL

[04-07, 08:18] Robert Pate: Jesus doesn't wash. He justifies by his life, death and resurrection.

[04-07, 08:13] God's Truth: The righteousness of Jesus means Jesus washed me.


Robert Pate wants to be a teacher, and a judge, but he is putting himself against God.

God's Truth
July 7th, 2017, 09:19 AM
Being born again is something that you do not understand. It is a subjective experience that happens when some one accepts the fact that they are a lost sinner and need to be saved. You have never been there.

[04-07, 08:18] Robert Pate: Jesus doesn't wash. He justifies by his life, death and resurrection.

[04-07, 08:13] God's Truth: The righteousness of Jesus means Jesus washed me.

God's Truth
July 7th, 2017, 09:24 AM
Nothing in my provided explanation of the passage in question speaks directly to predestination, Robert. The point of Our Lord's statement is to point out that no one can born themselves, as it is something God does. Our Lord is not telling Nicodemus to take personal responsibility and save himself. Man is born again, regenerated, from above. Afterwards, said man will take personal responsibility and believe, for in this regenerated state man will not not want to believe. Think about it and maybe it will come to you.

AMR

A person is born again when Jesus saves them by washing away all their sins that they repented of and then he himself lives in us.

That is being born again.

God's Truth
July 7th, 2017, 09:36 AM
Nicodemus was a righteous man. Had he died before the cross he would have gone to the abode of the righteous dead, Paradise, abraham's bosom to await Jesus to set him free.

Jesus said that those who confess him before men, he will also confess him before the angel of God. But whoever denies him will be denied.

Luke 12:8I tell you, everyone who confesses Me before men, the Son of Man will also confess him before the angels of God. 9But whoever denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God.

Jesus didn't like it that there were leaders and Pharisees who believed in him in secret.

God's Truth
July 7th, 2017, 10:07 AM
Remember, God's angels are going to bring the saved to Jesus.

Robert Pate
July 7th, 2017, 02:28 PM
Jesus said that those who confess him before men, he will also confess him before the angel of God. But whoever denies him will be denied.

Luke 12:8I tell you, everyone who confesses Me before men, the Son of Man will also confess him before the angels of God. 9But whoever denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God.

Jesus didn't like it that there were leaders and Pharisees who believed in him in secret.


To reject the Gospel and justification by faith is to reject Jesus.

jamie
July 7th, 2017, 03:01 PM
There is no record that Nick responded to Jesus message of being born again, nor does it say that Nick believed on Jesus. John 3:12 indicates that Nick was an unbeliever.

Nicodemus helped bury Jesus.

"And Nicodemus, who at first came to Jesus by night, also came, bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pounds. Then they took the body of Jesus and bound it in strips of linen with the spices, as the custom of the Jews is to bury." (John 19:39-40)

Robert Pate
July 7th, 2017, 03:23 PM
Nicodemus helped bury Jesus.

"And Nicodemus, who at first came to Jesus by night, also came, bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pounds. Then they took the body of Jesus and bound it in strips of linen with the spices, as the custom of the Jews is to bury." (John 19:39-40)

That's nice. But I would rather hear that Nick believed in Jesus. What was his response when the Jesus that he helped bury came out of the grave?

Cross Reference
July 7th, 2017, 05:38 PM
That's nice. But I would rather hear that Nick believed in Jesus. What was his response when the Jesus that he helped bury came out of the grave?

He rushed to tell keeper of the grave one of his favs was escaping.

God's Truth
July 7th, 2017, 05:54 PM
To reject the Gospel and justification by faith is to reject Jesus.

You reject what Jesus says.
And you are proud of it.

God's Truth
July 7th, 2017, 05:55 PM
Nicodemus helped bury Jesus.

"And Nicodemus, who at first came to Jesus by night, also came, bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pounds. Then they took the body of Jesus and bound it in strips of linen with the spices, as the custom of the Jews is to bury." (John 19:39-40)

Nicodemus did not acknowledge Jesus before men.

lifeisgood
July 7th, 2017, 06:47 PM
A person is born again when Jesus saves them by washing away all their sins that they repented of and then he himself lives in us.

That is being born again.

Oh, foolish, foolish woman. What happens with those sins you did not repented of?

Here you go again, gt, saying that the Lord ONLY washes away the sins YOU repent of, one more time declaring to Him that Him and his completed/finished work on the Cross of Calvary was not enough TO SAVE you and you, gt, must help Him and His already finished/completed work on the Cross of Calvary by repenting of some of your sins as you cannot remember all your sins, those of commission and those of omission.

How sad. How sad indeed.

God's Truth
July 7th, 2017, 07:53 PM
Oh, foolish, foolish woman. What happens with those sins you did not repented of?
Why wouldn't I repent of all my sins?




Here you go again, gt, saying that the Lord ONLY washes away the sins YOU repent of, one more time declaring to Him that Him and his completed/finished work on the Cross of Calvary was not enough TO SAVE you and you, gt, must help Him and His already finished/completed work on the Cross of Calvary by repenting of some of your sins as you cannot remember all your sins, those of commission and those of omission.

How sad. How sad indeed.

If you don't know your sins, then how are you not to repeat them?

Maybe someone is committing adultery but doesn't think it is adultery?

Are they forgiven?

I am not helping Jesus by obeying him.

I am doing right by obeying him.

lifeisgood
July 7th, 2017, 09:36 PM
Why wouldn't I repent of all my sins?



If you don't know your sins, then how are you not to repeat them?

Maybe someone is committing adultery but doesn't think it is adultery?

Are they forgiven?

I am not helping Jesus by obeying him.

I am doing right by obeying him.

No person can remember every single sin he/she has committed. Oh, I forget, you, gt, can remember every single sin you have ever committed, those of commission and also those of omission, and you have repented of EVERY SINGLE one of them just like you OBEY ALL of Jesus' commandment.

God's Truth
July 7th, 2017, 11:12 PM
No person can remember every single sin he/she has committed. Oh, I forget, you, gt, can remember every single sin you have ever committed, those of commission and also those of omission, and you have repented of EVERY SINGLE one of them just like you OBEY ALL of Jesus' commandment.

Repent of what you do know.

amber59
July 8th, 2017, 12:27 AM
Being rised with Reformed Doctrin I hate it when people try to pass off their version Calvinist theology as fact. And then think they are so smart because they can refute their own version. Mr Pate fake news comes to mind. I could waste time explaining the facts. But pretty sure the mindset is like cement mixed up and set.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

God's Truth
July 8th, 2017, 02:16 AM
Being rised with Reformed Doctrin I hate it when people try to pass off their version Calvinist theology as fact. And then think they are so smart because they can refute their own version. Mr Pate fake news comes to mind. I could waste time explaining the facts. But pretty sure the mindset is like cement mixed up and set.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

God doesn't save unbelievers. Calvinism teaches that God saves unbelievers. Why would you want to believe something that is not in the Bible?

oatmeal
July 8th, 2017, 08:17 AM
I John 3:1-2

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Evidently, the texts have the words, "and we are" after "God" in verse one, thus verse 1 would read,

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God and we are: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

We are born again of incorruptible seed.

Whose seed? God's seed, and that seed is Christ. We have Christ in us. Colossians 1:27

We are literally sons of God now and for all eternity, we are heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.

God is literally our Heavenly Father.

We are as much sons of God as Jesus Christ is the son of God.

He was conceived and born a son of God.

We are born again (anothen - born from above) sons of God after we were earthly born children of our earthly parents

lifeisgood
July 8th, 2017, 11:07 AM
Repent of what you do know.

And what do you, gt, do with the ones God consider to be sins and you do not know that you have sinned and did not confess the ones God consider to be sin? Another example of you, gt, taking the place of God saying, 'Oh, well, I repent of all the sins I know of, but I have no idea what to do about the sins God consider sin and I, gt, do not know that I am sinning.' Again presenting you and your flawed salvation to God and rejecting Him and what He did in your stead on the Cross of Calvary.

You will never be able to tell the Lord that you confessed ALL of your sins because you only confessed the ones you know you were sinning about because God is going to say to you, 'How about that one?' and 'do you see that one?' etc., ad infinintum.

What then, gt?

lifeisgood
July 8th, 2017, 11:10 AM
God doesn't save unbelievers. Calvinism teaches that God saves unbelievers. Why would you want to believe something that is not in the Bible?

And you forget that while we were still enemies of God, He provided a way for our salvation and it has absolutely nothing to do with you, gt, for salvation is all, totally, completely of God. God does not need your help to save you, gt.

Robert Pate
July 8th, 2017, 11:56 AM
And you forget that while we were still enemies of God, He provided a way for our salvation and it has absolutely nothing to do with you, gt, for salvation if all, totally, completely of God. God does not need your help to save you, gt.

Right.

"And you that were sometimes alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now has HE RECONCILED" Colossians 1:21.

amber59
July 8th, 2017, 03:49 PM
God doesn't save unbelievers. Calvinism teaches that God saves unbelievers. Why would you want to believe something that is not in the Bible?
Huh

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

God's Truth
July 8th, 2017, 03:56 PM
Huh

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Calvinists say God saves the elect without their knowing and without their wanting. They say He saves them while they do not believe.

However, God does not save unbelievers. God saves believers.

amber59
July 8th, 2017, 03:56 PM
Huh

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

amber59
July 8th, 2017, 03:58 PM
Reformed all my life never heard that. Frankly it makes no sense.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

God's Truth
July 8th, 2017, 04:18 PM
Huh

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Go study some more and learn something before you try to debate.

God's Truth
July 8th, 2017, 04:19 PM
Reformed all my life never heard that. Frankly it makes no sense.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

You don't know enough about your own false doctrines.

Nang
July 8th, 2017, 04:24 PM
Reformed all my life never heard that. Frankly it makes no sense.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

As a Reformer, you will be misunderstood by all legalists on TOL, as well as all the anti-nomians.

But your brethren will hear you!

Welcome . . .

Nang

God's Truth
July 8th, 2017, 04:28 PM
As a Reformer, you will be misunderstood by all legalists on TOL, as well as all the anti-nomians.

But your brethren will hear you!

Welcome . . .

Nang

No such thing. Calvinists always say that in the beginning of debates, then they soon realize they were wrong.

Robert Pate
July 8th, 2017, 04:31 PM
You don't know enough about your own false doctrines.

You have no answer for Colossians 1:21, do you?

"And you that were sometimes alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now has he reconciled"

Another one of those difficult scriptures.

jsanford108
July 8th, 2017, 04:44 PM
The Catholics would welcome you with open arms.

We do love people. Unlike the Pate-ists.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)

Robert Pate
July 8th, 2017, 04:47 PM
We do love people. Unlike the Pate-ists.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)

Sure you do, especially the choir boys.

jamie
July 8th, 2017, 05:50 PM
Sure you do, especially the choir boys.


Sick. :vomit:

God's Truth
July 8th, 2017, 05:55 PM
You have no answer for Colossians 1:21, do you?

"And you that were sometimes alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now has he reconciled"

Another one of those difficult scriptures.

Gentiles did not obey the works of the law, i.e. circumcision and sacrifice of animals.

Gentiles did not atone for their sins, they were unclean.


Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

Ephesians 2:1
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,

Ephesians 2:5
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved.


Jesus saved the unclean enemies who were dead in their sins, he did not make them get circumcised before he would save them.

amber59
July 8th, 2017, 06:03 PM
Oh I know my doctrine well

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

jsanford108
July 8th, 2017, 06:13 PM
Sure you do, especially the choir boys.

What a hilarious joke. And one that has never been used before.

It is also ignorant of actual statistics.

Catholicism, sports a statistic of less than 2% sexual deviance. That is 2% in 2000 years.

Meanwhile, Protestants have a slightly higher total, around 2.1%. If you break that down per denomination, the percent is usually much higher. Some denominations sporting double digits in percentages of sexual deviance.

If you crunch those statistics, that means in 500 years (or less for most denominations) Protestant sexual deviance grew exponentially;
Surpassing Catholic statistics.

All of this research was conducted by GRACE (a group started by the Graham Foundation). Secular research shows even greater evidence of Protestant denominations having more sexual deviance.

Granted, this label of "sexual deviance" includes all aspects, such as molestation, assault, etc. For simple child molestation, Protestants have 3 times more occurrences. Once again, broken down into denominations, the percentages are even higher.

Therefore, it is easily concluded that your joke of "loving choir boys" is more applicable to Protestants than Catholics. But that is just facts. I know that is inconvenient for most Pate-ists, as they ignore facts in favor of falsehoods.

amber59
July 8th, 2017, 06:15 PM
Yes I know Nang just like reading the the ignorance people willing to put in writing. And watch how mean and ugly these wonderful Christian brothers can get.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Robert Pate
July 8th, 2017, 08:45 PM
Gentiles did not obey the works of the law, i.e. circumcision and sacrifice of animals.

Gentiles did not atone for their sins, they were unclean.


Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

Ephesians 2:1
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,

Ephesians 2:5
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved.


Jesus saved the unclean enemies who were dead in their sins, he did not make them get circumcised before he would save them.

Here is another one that you find disturbing.

"But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the UNGODLY, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

Nothing about obedience counting for righteousness, just faith.

God's Truth
July 8th, 2017, 10:22 PM
Here is another one that you find disturbing.

"But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the UNGODLY, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

Nothing about obedience counting for righteousness, just faith.

No, it is about not getting circumcised and sacrificing animals, etc.

Robert Pate
July 9th, 2017, 08:08 AM
No, it is about not getting circumcised and sacrificing animals, etc.

Its not about works or obedience either.

The truth of the matter is that you cannot live by faith alone. You have to perform or you do not think you are saved.

God's Truth
July 9th, 2017, 08:11 AM
Its not about works or obedience either.

The truth of the matter is that you cannot live by faith alone. You have to perform or you do not think you are saved.

Jesus didn't come to earth and die for us so that we no longer have to obey God. That is insanity.

God's Truth
July 9th, 2017, 08:14 AM
Robert Pate tries to put me down by saying I preach that we have to 'preform', as if we are a circus animal if we obey God.

Doing what Jesus did and preached is not to be insulted in such a way.

Robert Pate
July 9th, 2017, 08:18 AM
Jesus didn't come to earth and die for us so that we no longer have to obey God. That is insanity.

It is insane to you because you don't understand the Gospel. I don't have to do anything to be saved, simply because I have been justified by faith in the doing and the dying of Jesus. You on the other hand are trying to be good enough to be saved.

God's Truth
July 9th, 2017, 08:52 AM
It is insane to you because you don't understand the Gospel. I don't have to do anything to be saved, simply because I have been justified by faith in the doing and the dying of Jesus. You on the other hand are trying to be good enough to be saved.

No. It means we don't have to atone for our own sins because Jesus does it for us!

Robert Pate
July 9th, 2017, 11:19 AM
No. It means we don't have to atone for our own sins because Jesus does it for us!

It also means that we don't have to fulfill the law because Jesus fulfilled it for us, Matthew 5:18. God only accepts the righteousness of Christ.

jamie
July 9th, 2017, 11:33 AM
It also means that we don't have to fulfill the law because Jesus fulfilled it for us, Matthew 5:18.


"For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." (Matthew 5:18)

In the preceding verse Jesus also referred to the Prophets. Has all prophecy been fulfilled or is this just loose talk?

jamie
July 9th, 2017, 11:35 AM
God only accepts the righteousness of Christ.


It's a good thing the Spirit lives in us.

Do you not believe the Spirit is righteous?

Robert Pate
July 9th, 2017, 11:42 AM
It's a good thing the Spirit lives in us.

Do you not believe the Spirit is righteous?

The Holy Spirit does not make anyone righteous. The Holy Spirit is God's mark of ownership and is our comforter to help us get through life. All that posses the Holy Spirit are complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

Robert Pate
July 9th, 2017, 11:45 AM
"For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." (Matthew 5:18)

In the preceding verse Jesus also referred to the Prophets. Has all prophecy been fulfilled or is this just loose talk?

Everything has been fulfilled. We are awaiting the return of Jesus.

jamie
July 9th, 2017, 01:23 PM
The Holy Spirit does not make anyone righteous.


"Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous." (1 John 3:7)

Do you practice righteousness?

jamie
July 9th, 2017, 01:26 PM
Everything has been fulfilled. We are awaiting the return of Jesus.


Is Jesus' coming prophetic? Or do you like the JW's believe he is already here.

God's Truth
July 9th, 2017, 01:40 PM
The Holy Spirit does not make anyone righteous. The Holy Spirit is God's mark of ownership and is our comforter to help us get through life. All that posses the Holy Spirit are complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

You say the Holy Spirit does not make us righteous, when it is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God who cleans/washes us of the sins we repent of?!

Oh yeah, you said Jesus doesn't wash away our sins. LOL

God's Truth
July 9th, 2017, 01:41 PM
It also means that we don't have to fulfill the law because Jesus fulfilled it for us, Matthew 5:18. God only accepts the righteousness of Christ.

It means we do not have to ATONE ourselves because Jesus atones.

God's Truth
July 9th, 2017, 01:42 PM
Our obedience leads us to righteousness see Romans 6:16.

We are righteous because we obey the perfect law see Romans 2:13.

We do what is right; therefore, we are righteous see 1 John 3:12.

The righteous requirements of the law are fully met in me and all those saved, those who live according to the Spirit, See Romans 8:4.

Righteous acts see Revelation 19:8

We are to offer the parts of our body to Him as instruments of righteousness. Romans 6:13

We are under control of righteousness Romans 6:20

We are to live a righteous life James 1:20

Righteous for what we do James 2:21, 25

Robert Pate
July 9th, 2017, 02:28 PM
"Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous." (1 John 3:7)

Do you practice righteousness?

No one posses the righteousness of Christ. If you did you would be in heaven. you are not there are you?

Robert Pate
July 9th, 2017, 02:30 PM
Our obedience leads us to righteousness see Romans 6:16.

We are righteous because we obey the perfect law see Romans 2:13.

We do what is right; therefore, we are righteous see 1 John 3:12.

The righteous requirements of the law are fully met in me and all those saved, those who live according to the Spirit, See Romans 8:4.

Righteous acts see Revelation 19:8

We are to offer the parts of our body to Him as instruments of righteousness. Romans 6:13

We are under control of righteousness Romans 6:20

We are to live a righteous life James 1:20

Righteous for what we do James 2:21, 25

We are righteous only "In Christ" we are not there yet.

You make a liar out of Paul, John and Isaiah.

God's Truth
July 9th, 2017, 02:53 PM
We are righteous only "In Christ" we are not there yet.

You make a liar out of Paul, John and Isaiah.

We are not in Christ? The saved are not in Christ?!

You are so ignorant.

These scriptures prove that the saved are put IN CHRIST:

John 15:5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

Colossians 3:3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

1 Corinthians 6:17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.

John 6:56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.

Ephesians 2:6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

Colossians 3:1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

God's Truth
July 9th, 2017, 02:56 PM
No one posses the righteousness of Christ. If you did you would be in heaven. you are not there are you?

The saved are with Jesus in heaven.

Robert Pate
July 9th, 2017, 03:31 PM
The saved are with Jesus in heaven.

No one is in heaven yet. The resurrection has not happened yet, 1 Corinthians 15:52.

God's Truth
July 9th, 2017, 03:55 PM
No one is in heaven yet. The resurrection has not happened yet, 1 Corinthians 15:52.

You are so ignorant, for at the resurrection is when those who were in heaven will come up and be resurrected. lol
No one is going to live in heaven AFTER the resurrection.

Robert Pate
July 9th, 2017, 04:08 PM
You are so ignorant, for at the resurrection is when those who were in heaven will come up and be resurrected. lol
No one is going to live in heaven AFTER the resurrection.

You are Bible illiterate. You believe that the there are people in heaven that will come down to be resurrected. Where does it say that?

jamie
July 9th, 2017, 06:02 PM
No one posses the righteousness of Christ. If you did you would be in heaven. you are not there are you?


"He condemned sin in the flesh that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (Romans 8:3-4)

God's Truth
July 9th, 2017, 10:26 PM
You are Bible illiterate. You believe that the there are people in heaven that will come down to be resurrected. Where does it say that?

I will show you, but first show me where people go to heaven AFTER the resurrection!

You have a lot of nerve calling me Bible literate. You said Jesus doesn't wash us!

Robert Pate
July 10th, 2017, 09:10 AM
I will show you, but first show me where people go to heaven AFTER the resurrection!

You have a lot of nerve calling me Bible literate. You said Jesus doesn't wash us!

Washing is symbolic for justification. You want to avoid the doctrine of justification because it is about the Gospel that you hate.

God's Truth
July 10th, 2017, 09:51 AM
Washing is symbolic for justification. You want to avoid the doctrine of justification because it is about the Gospel that you hate.

I told YOU about the washing, and you denied it and went it against it. lol

You can't get out of it.

God's Truth
July 10th, 2017, 09:53 AM
Robert, you say so many things wrong.

Give up the teaching and start listening and learning, after you obey and repent.

You aren't going to get any knowledge and wisdom unless you repent.

God's Truth
July 10th, 2017, 09:59 AM
[04-07, 08:23] God's Truth: Jesus' blood washes us from sin, and you said it doesn't. You cannot get out of that falseness so easy.
[04-07, 08:22] Robert Pate: You don't have a clue as to what it means to be justified by faith.

[04-07, 08:20] God's Truth: 1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin.
[04-07, 08:20] God's Truth: I can hardly believe you said that.

[04-07, 08:18] Robert Pate: Jesus doesn't wash. He justifies by his life, death and resurrection.

[04-07, 08:13] God's Truth: The righteousness of Jesus means Jesus washed me.


Did you forget, Robert? You said Jesus does NOT wash us.

God's Truth
July 10th, 2017, 10:05 AM
Here are some more odd things from Robert Pate:



Its not about works or obedience either.

The truth of the matter is that you cannot live by faith alone. You have to perform or you do not think you are saved.


That is where Pate refers to obedience to God the same as a performer, like a circus animal.

Jesus says that he obeyed the Father and that is why he remains in the Father's love.

Here Pate says there is an evil time to obey!

Originally Posted by God's Truth
It is never evil to obey God.

Robert Pate: It is when you think that your obedience is going to save you.

Here is where RP says the Father is not the Savior:





God the Father is not the savior.

You sure say a lot of things that go against the Bible.

Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from me there is no savior.

Psalm 24:5 They will receive blessing from the Lord and vindication from God their Savior.

Isaiah 45:21 Declare what is to be, present it— let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, the Lord? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me.

...and MANY, MANY, more.

God's Truth
July 10th, 2017, 10:09 AM
Robert Pate,

Was it not you who said you used to go to street corners and preach to drug addicts to believe in Jesus?

You preach here that we do not have to obey to get saved.

You preach that to heroin addicts and you have only harmed them.

Bright Raven
July 10th, 2017, 01:26 PM
Robert Pate,

Was it not you who said you used to go to street corners and preach to drug addicts to believe in Jesus?

You preach here that we do not have to obey to get saved.

You preach that to heroin addicts and you have only harmed them.

Show him where it says so.

Robert Pate
July 10th, 2017, 01:38 PM
Robert Pate,

Was it not you who said you used to go to street corners and preach to drug addicts to believe in Jesus?

You preach here that we do not have to obey to get saved.

You preach that to heroin addicts and you have only harmed them.

I did street witnessing with "Christians in Action". You will never reach anyone for Christ with your holiness doctrine. If you are going to win people to Christ you have to identify with them. This is why Paul tried to be all things to all men that he might save some, 1 Corinthians 9:22.

Cross Reference
July 11th, 2017, 06:33 AM
I did street witnessing with "Christians in Action". You will never reach anyone for Christ with your holiness doctrine. If you are going to win people to Christ you have to identify with them. This is why Paul tried to be all things to all men that he might save some, 1 Corinthians 9:22.

Baloney! That is Satan talking, not Jesus OR Paul.

Robert Pate
July 11th, 2017, 06:56 AM
Baloney! That is Satan talking, not Jesus OR Paul.

Are you going to show them how holy you are?

Robert Pate
July 14th, 2017, 11:34 AM
Paul was not interested in convincing people that he was holy. Paul's objective was to preach the Gospel to all that would hear it. This is why he wrote,

"To the weak I became as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some and this I do for the Gospel's sake, that I might be a partaker thereof with you" 1 Corinthians 9:22, 23.

Cross Reference
July 14th, 2017, 01:44 PM
Paul was not interested in convincing people that he was holy. Paul's objective was to preach the Gospel to all that would hear it. This is why he wrote,

"To the weak I became as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some and this I do for the Gospel's sake, that I might be a partaker thereof with you" 1 Corinthians 9:22, 23.

Paul didn't preach that as the gospel but as a personal testimony. It was also addressed to his followers, one's which were already "born again" Pentecostals..

Cross Reference
July 14th, 2017, 01:47 PM
Are you going to show them how holy you are?

Paul didn't identify with anyone in their sin but in their struggles for satisfaction in life.

Robert Pate
July 14th, 2017, 01:59 PM
Paul didn't preach that as the gospel but as a personal testimony. It was also addressed to his followers, one's which were already "born again" Pentecostals..

Where does it say that they were Pentecostals? The Corinthian church was a troubled church, they were always glorying in their religious experiences, when they should have been glorying in the Lord, 2 Corinthians 10:17. Well, maybe they were Pentecostals.

Bright Raven
July 14th, 2017, 02:21 PM
John 3:3-8New American Standard Bible (NASB)

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus *said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Cross Reference
July 14th, 2017, 03:54 PM
[QUOTE]Where does it say that they were Pentecostals?

Where does it say you have understanding about anything Jesus Christ?


The Corinthian church was a troubled church, they were always glorying in their religious experiences, when they should have been glorying in the Lord, 2 Corinthians 10:17. Well, maybe they were Pentecostals.


The Corinitian church was Pentecostal. . .So what? That changed nothing He taught but brought adjustment to their thinking.

Paul was a Pentecostal. Everything he taught was based upon Pentecostal understanding.

cf Acts 19 and re Apollos: Acts 18:26.

Cross Reference
July 14th, 2017, 03:57 PM
John 3:3-8New American Standard Bible (NASB)

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus *said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Remember, Bright. Jesus was speaking concerning entering the Kingdom of God, NOT salvation. Nicodemus' question was with regard to understanding that and NOT his own salvation.

Bright Raven
July 14th, 2017, 04:01 PM
Remember, Bright. Jesus was speaking concerning entering the Kingdom of God, NOT salvation. Nicodemus' question was with regard to understanding that and NOT his own salvation.

What is salvation?

Cross Reference
July 14th, 2017, 05:31 PM
What is salvation?

Huh??

God's Truth
July 14th, 2017, 06:15 PM
I did street witnessing with "Christians in Action". You will never reach anyone for Christ with your holiness doctrine. If you are going to win people to Christ you have to identify with them. This is why Paul tried to be all things to all men that he might save some, 1 Corinthians 9:22.

Paul never taught that he was a sinner who did not obey.

1 Corinthians 9:27 But I roughly treat my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.

Tell me, do you tell them they have to stop sinning?

Matthew 23:15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

Potter's Clay
July 14th, 2017, 09:20 PM
You have a new nature. You know righteousness and as a result desire to do good works and believe in Jesus Christ.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

God's Truth
July 15th, 2017, 12:27 AM
Paul was not interested in convincing people that he was holy. Paul's objective was to preach the Gospel to all that would hear it. This is why he wrote,

"To the weak I became as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some and this I do for the Gospel's sake, that I might be a partaker thereof with you" 1 Corinthians 9:22, 23.

He still taught THE TRUTH.

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.


Tell us, did you preach that?

Robert Pate
July 15th, 2017, 11:54 AM
He still taught THE TRUTH.

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.


Tell us, did you preach that?


No, that is the law. Telling people to do something is law.

What you tell them is what God has done for them in Jesus Christ, the Gospel.

Cross Reference
July 15th, 2017, 12:09 PM
You have a new nature. You know righteousness and as a result desire to do good works and believe in Jesus Christ.

If one is born again that is what happens because of it. You can say some of God's own DNA was deposited in you which is the means be which He has access to your soul through your spirit as you learn to abandon your life to Him. . . which is what and why the written word "instructions" is all about.

God's Truth
July 15th, 2017, 12:42 PM
No, that is the law. Telling people to do something is law.

What you tell them is what God has done for them in Jesus Christ, the Gospel.

Are you kidding? I gave you scripture of Paul telling JEWS, GREEKS, and GENTILES the gospel.

Do you really want me to show you all the scriptures of Paul telling us what to do?!

Robert Pate
July 15th, 2017, 02:47 PM
Are you kidding? I gave you scripture of Paul telling JEWS, GREEKS, and GENTILES the gospel.

Do you really want me to show you all the scriptures of Paul telling us what to do?!

Paul taught the law as well as the Gospel. Both the law and the Gospel can convince one of sin. But the law does not justify, Romans 3:20. Only Jesus Christ can justify, Romans 3:26.

God's Truth
July 15th, 2017, 09:46 PM
Paul taught the law as well as the Gospel. Both the law and the Gospel can convince one of sin. But the law does not justify, Romans 3:20. Only Jesus Christ can justify, Romans 3:26.

So you are saying Paul taught the old law to Greeks and Gentiles?

Robert Pate
July 16th, 2017, 09:01 AM
So you are saying Paul taught the old law to Greeks and Gentiles?

Paul taught spiritual instructions, but the thrust of Paul's ministry was the preaching of the Gospel.

God's Truth
July 16th, 2017, 09:26 AM
Paul taught spiritual instructions, but the thrust of Paul's ministry was the preaching of the Gospel.

What?

Paul taught what we must do, and you preach against that.

God's Truth
July 16th, 2017, 09:29 AM
This thread is about being born again.

We are born again after repenting of our sins and having those sins washed away.

We are born again, meaning no sins just like having a new life without any sins.

Robert Pate
July 17th, 2017, 08:39 AM
What?

Paul taught what we must do, and you preach against that.

You don't believe the Gospel and justification by faith. Instead you want to believe that your works or obedience will justify. Big shock for you in the judgment.

God's Truth
July 17th, 2017, 10:39 AM
You don't believe the Gospel and justification by faith. Instead you want to believe that your works or obedience will justify. Big shock for you in the judgment.

Those who obey words of SPIRIT AND LIFE will not get shocked with shame before God.

You are without even sense that is common.

Robert Pate
July 19th, 2017, 12:35 PM
Those who obey words of SPIRIT AND LIFE will not get shocked with shame before God.

You are without even sense that is common.

The only thing that God acknowledges is faith. "Without faith it is impossible to please him". Works and obedience count for nothing.

God's Truth
July 19th, 2017, 11:12 PM
The only thing that God acknowledges is faith. "Without faith it is impossible to please him". Works and obedience count for nothing.

Faith without right action is dead.

There is no such thing as faith alone.

Robert Pate
July 20th, 2017, 09:21 AM
Faith without right action is dead.

There is no such thing as faith alone.

Of course there is. Salvation is by faith alone because it is by Christ alone.

Bright Raven
July 21st, 2017, 02:36 PM
Faith without right action is dead.

There is no such thing as faith alone.Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

God's Truth
July 21st, 2017, 10:46 PM
Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

So you think scripture pits itself against itself?

Faith without right action is dead.

The scripture you posted about not of works so no one can boast, it is about the purification works the Jews used to be able to boast about.

God's Truth
July 21st, 2017, 10:49 PM
Of course there is. Salvation is by faith alone because it is by Christ alone.

That is the mantra of your false teachers. Tell me the scripture that says exactly what you said.

Bright Raven
July 22nd, 2017, 08:28 AM
So you think scripture pits itself against itself?

Faith without right action is dead.

The scripture you posted about not of works so no one can boast, it is about the purification works the Jews used to be able to boast about.

Wrong! Faith is the source of good works.

God's Truth
July 22nd, 2017, 09:29 AM
Wrong! Faith is the source of good works.

Faith without right action is dead. Faith with right action is alive.

Robert Pate
July 22nd, 2017, 10:01 AM
That is the mantra of your false teachers. Tell me the scripture that says exactly what you said.

Simply because salvation is by Christ alone, it must be by faith alone.

Bright Raven
July 22nd, 2017, 10:55 AM
Faith without right action is dead. Faith with right action is alive.

You must have faith to have good works.

God's Truth
July 22nd, 2017, 01:31 PM
You must have faith to have good works.

You must have living faith to be saved and to stay saved.

God's Truth
July 22nd, 2017, 01:33 PM
Simply because salvation is by Christ alone, it must be by faith alone.

Faith alone is dead.

Bright Raven
July 22nd, 2017, 01:42 PM
Faith alone is dead.

What I have been telling you is that good works are an outgrowth of Faith.

God's Truth
July 22nd, 2017, 01:44 PM
What I have been telling you is that good works are an outgrowth of Faith.

No. Faith alone is DEAD and cannot save anyone.

Bright Raven
July 22nd, 2017, 01:54 PM
No. Faith alone is DEAD and cannot save anyone.

Can't you comprehend the english language?

Ephesians 2:10 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Do you not SEE (OPEN YOU EYES) that it is by our salvation through faith alone that we are enabled to do Good works? The works come from our salvation in Christ.

CherubRam
July 22nd, 2017, 02:31 PM
No. Faith alone is DEAD and cannot save anyone.

Without faith in God how can a person be saved? If not for God's grace there would be no reason for faith, repentance, baptism, or works.

Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

God's Truth
July 23rd, 2017, 09:49 AM
Without faith in God how can a person be saved? If not for God's grace there would be no reason for faith, repentance, baptism, or works.

Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Faith by itself is dead and cannot save anyone.

James 2:14, 17, 20, 22, 24; 2 Peter 3:16, 17.

Robert Pate
July 23rd, 2017, 10:29 AM
Faith by itself is dead and cannot save anyone.

James 2:14, 17, 20, 22, 24; 2 Peter 3:16, 17.

Salvation is by Christ alone, faith alone. It was Jesus that fulfilled the law, Matthew 5:18. It was Jesus that atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. We now stand COMPLETE in him, Colossians 2:10. Your piety, good works, obedience cannot justify.

God's Truth
July 23rd, 2017, 09:39 PM
Salvation is by Christ alone, faith alone. It was Jesus that fulfilled the law, Matthew 5:18. It was Jesus that atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. We now stand COMPLETE in him, Colossians 2:10. Your piety, good works, obedience cannot justify.

It isn't shameful to obey Jesus. Obeying Jesus wasn't nailed to the cross. Where is your sense?

Robert Pate
July 24th, 2017, 06:11 AM
It isn't shameful to obey Jesus. Obeying Jesus wasn't nailed to the cross. Where is your sense?

It is shameful to believe that your righteousness counts for something. The only thing that counts for something is the righteousness of Christ, Romans 3:26.

God's Truth
July 24th, 2017, 07:34 AM
It is shameful to believe that your righteousness counts for something. The only thing that counts for something is the righteousness of Christ, Romans 3:26.

Stop evading the truth. It is not ever shameful to obey Jesus. Obeying Jesus will give you life.

As it is right now, you speak against this life.

Robert Pate
July 24th, 2017, 09:27 AM
Stop evading the truth. It is not ever shameful to obey Jesus. Obeying Jesus will give you life.

As it is right now, you speak against this life.


Your righteousness stinks like filthy rags, Isaiah 64:6.

God's Truth
July 24th, 2017, 02:46 PM
Your righteousness stinks like filthy rags, Isaiah 64:6.

Jesus is the Word of God. That means whatever Jesus says, his words are true from the Maker of everything.

Jesus' words are Spirit and life. Obeying those words will never harm you and do you wrong, as you claim; for you condemn me for saying Jesus tells us WHAT to DO to be saved.

As for the filthy rags scripture, it is only filthy when you don't have a right heart before God.

Robert Pate
July 24th, 2017, 02:55 PM
Jesus is the Word of God. That means whatever Jesus says, his words are true from the Maker of everything.

Jesus' words are Spirit and life. Obeying those words will never harm you and do you wrong, as you claim; for you condemn me for saying Jesus tells us WHAT to DO to be saved.

As for the filthy rags scripture, it is only filthy when you don't have a right heart before God.


Your righteousness still stinks like filthy rags, Isaiah 64:6.

heir
August 15th, 2017, 12:20 AM
What Does it Mean to be Born Again?Check Ezekiel 37 as born again (for Israel future) is resurrection.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Everyone who has ever been born is born of water. Israel must be born again, resurrected

Nicodemus was a "master of Israel". He should have known that being born again (born of the Spirit), that it was resurrection as in Ezekiel 37 (dry bones). Read about it.

John 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

And unless you are willing to claim that you can walk through walls, you are NOT born again

John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Jesus was "born again".

Luke 24:30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
Luke 24:31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
Luke 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
Luke 24:33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
Luke 24:34 Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
Luke 24:35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.
Luke 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luke 24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Luke 24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Believers today who are in Christ after trusting the Lord believing the word of truth (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) are a "new creature" NOT "born again"

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

God's Truth
August 15th, 2017, 12:33 AM
Your righteousness still stinks like filthy rags, Isaiah 64:6.

You were taught to misunderstand the filthy rag scripture.

How do you EVER get that obeying God is as a filthy rag?!

The Jews who had to do a righteous act of giving a sin offering, which included offering BLOOD, God did not like it that they would sin then give a sin offering and not really be sorry for their sins; that made the blood offering as a menstrual bloody rag offering. Not being truly sorry for the sin is what made the righteous act of sacrificing animals for their blood as a filthy rag.


Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

God's Truth
August 15th, 2017, 12:34 AM
Check Ezekiel 37 as born again (for Israel future) is resurrection.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Everyone who has ever been born is born of water. Israel must be born again, resurrected

Nicodemus was a "master of Israel". He should have known that being born again (born of the Spirit), that it was resurrection as in Ezekiel 37 (dry bones). Read about it.

John 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

And unless you are willing to claim that you can walk through walls, you are NOT born again

John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Jesus was "born again".

Luke 24:30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
Luke 24:31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
Luke 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
Luke 24:33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
Luke 24:34 Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
Luke 24:35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.
Luke 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luke 24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Luke 24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Believers today who are in Christ after trusting the Lord believing the word of truth (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) are a "new creature" NOT "born again"

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Being born again is when all your sins are washed away by Jesus. You then have a new life without sin, you are born again, new life, no sins.

Cross Reference
August 15th, 2017, 07:59 AM
To be born again means that God takes a measure of His DNA and places it in you.

jsanford108
August 16th, 2017, 02:16 PM
To be born again means that God takes a measure of His DNA and places it in you.

DNA? God takes "genetic material synthesized in the mitochondria" and places it "in you?"

I think I understood what you mean, but I would just caution use of such biological elements in discussions of spiritual realities.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)

Cross Reference
August 17th, 2017, 09:15 AM
DNA? God takes "genetic material synthesized in the mitochondria" and places it "in you?"

I think I understood what you mean, but I would just caution use of such biological elements in discussions of spiritual realities.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)

Why? Jesus walked on water. ;) Perhaps if I had written "Spiritual DNA"?

heir
August 17th, 2017, 09:46 AM
Being born again is when all your sins are washed away by Jesus. You then have a new life without sin, you are born again, new life, no sins.John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

That cannot be said of any of us!

God's Truth
August 17th, 2017, 09:51 AM
John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

That cannot be said of any of us!

How do you figure?

God's Truth
August 17th, 2017, 09:52 AM
Why? Jesus walked on water. ;) Perhaps if I had written "Spiritual DNA"?

DNA is of the flesh, is it not?

Cross Reference
August 19th, 2017, 08:24 AM
DNA is of the flesh, is it not?

I should have written: "Spirit DNA". Does that help?

Cross Reference
August 19th, 2017, 08:47 AM
It is only when we get hungry spiritually that we are able to receive the Holy Spirit to make effectual the gift of god’s salvation and this by impartation, the quickening life of Jesus Christ, which places God's "Spirit DNA" within and immediately It has placed within, it rises up to the above and we are lifted into the domain where Jesus lives.[John 3:5]. This transition however, can only be to a newborn to cultivate the vision of God. [cf Proverbs 29:18]. He knows that to live in the vision is to live in the reality of God with the actuality being the eventual result of his gracious gift, “so great salvation”. Therefore, it is incumbent upon us who claim his name that we learn how to reckon ourselves seated together in "heavenly places in Christ Jesus" by the manifold wisdom of God lived out from us;His "Spirit DNA" deposited in us [cf Ephesians 2:6; 3: 10 KJV]. Without the vision imported to us by the pursuit of our knowing the father [per John 17:3 KJV] the newborn of him are wasted. They are of non-effect in a world where many redeemed folk are looking for answers from God who have been told loves them. They are going hungry. Therefore, if God gives you something, seek Him further because as our relationship with God matures our allegiance to him becomes more acute that the challenge to our flesh is non-effect, our new birth [DNA] from above being the enablement, that in any challenge to our flesh, our old man, is victory over it most assured. Abandonment to God by the cross of Jesus Christ is the key that unlocks the door to His Throne.

Robert Pate
August 20th, 2017, 01:49 PM
It is only when we get hungry spiritually that we are able to receive the Holy Spirit to make effectual the gift of god’s salvation and this by impartation, the quickening life of Jesus Christ, which places God's "Spirit DNA" within and immediately It has placed within, it rises up to the above and we are lifted into the domain where Jesus lives.[John 3:5]. This transition however, can only be to a newborn to cultivate the vision of God. [cf Proverbs 29:18]. He knows that to live in the vision is to live in the reality of God with the actuality being the eventual result of his gracious gift, “so great salvation”. Therefore, it is incumbent upon us who claim his name that we learn how to reckon ourselves seated together in "heavenly places in Christ Jesus" by the manifold wisdom of God lived out from us;His "Spirit DNA" deposited in us [cf Ephesians 2:6; 3: 10 KJV]. Without the vision imported to us by the pursuit of our knowing the father [per John 17:3 KJV] the newborn of him are wasted. They are of non-effect in a world where many redeemed folk are looking for answers from God who have been told loves them. They are going hungry. Therefore, if God gives you something, seek Him further because as our relationship with God matures our allegiance to him becomes more acute that the challenge to our flesh is non-effect, our new birth [DNA] from above being the enablement, that in any challenge to our flesh, our old man, is victory over it most assured. Abandonment to God by the cross of Jesus Christ is the key that unlocks the door to His Throne.


Very good comments. If one is not born again they cannot understand the things of the Kingdom of God. There are many on the Forum that have not been born again and do not understand the things of God, they are in darkness and cannot be brought into the light. Only those that have been born again under stand the Gospel and justification by faith. Only those that have been born again can understand what it means to be complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

beloved57
August 20th, 2017, 02:00 PM
Very good comments. If one is not born again they cannot understand the things of the Kingdom of God. There are many on the Forum that have not been born again and do not understand the things of God, they are in darkness and cannot be brought into the light. Only those that have been born again under stand the Gospel and justification by faith. Only those that have been born again can understand what it means to be complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

Those who have been born again dont teach as you do that sinners Christ died for are still lost !

Cross Reference
August 20th, 2017, 02:58 PM
Very good comments. If one is not born again they cannot understand the things of the Kingdom of God. There are many on the Forum that have not been born again and do not understand the things of God, they are in darkness and cannot be brought into the light. Only those that have been born again under stand the Gospel and justification by faith. Only those that have been born again can understand what it means to be complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

I am glad you took the time to read all that, however, I re-read it as well and saw much that needed to re-written. I hope you take the time to do a re-read for clarities sake. Here goes:


After a re-read of what I wrote I discovered much grammar to be corrected. In correcting I discovered much was also difficult to understand that I revised it for clarities sakes, I hope. My bad. [gammar still bad no doubt]


It is only when we get hungry spiritually that we are able to receive the Holy Spirit to make effectual the gift of God’s two pronged salvation and this by imputation, the quickening life of Jesus Christ, which places God's "Spirit DNA" within and immediately It has placed within, it rises up to the above and we are lifted into the domain where Jesus lives. [John 3:5 KJV]. This transition however, can only be for a newborn to cultivate by the imparted vision by the Holy Spirit. [cf Proverbs 29:18 KJV]. He knows that to live in the vision is to live in the reality of God with the actuality being the eventual result of his gracious gift, “so great salvation” per John 17:3.. Therefore, it is incumbent upon us who claim his name that upon our death and resurrection in Him, we learn how to reckon ourselves seated together in "heavenly places in Him" with the manifold wisdom of God lived out from us as a result, another impartation by His "Spirit DNA" enabling us to ‘see’ the more of John3;3,5 KJV; [cf Eph 2:6; 3:10 KJV].

Without the vision imparted to us, the result of the pursuit of our knowing the father, the newborn of him are wasted. They are of non-effect in the kingdom of God for a world in need of rectification where many of the redeemed are looking for answers from God; those whom they have been told loves them. They are going hungry.

Therefore, if God gives us something, we should seek Him further for its perfection in us because as our relationship with Him matures our allegiance to him becomes more acute that the challenge to our flesh becomes ineffectual, our new birth [DNA] from above being the enablement and sealant to God himself, that any challenge to our flesh [the Eve in us], our old man, our victory over it is most assured. Abandonment to God by the cross of Jesus Christ is the key that unlocks the door to the Throne of God..

Robert Pate
August 20th, 2017, 04:31 PM
I am glad you took the time to read all that, however, I re-read it as well and saw much that needed to re-written. I hope you take the time to do a re-read for clarities sake. Here goes:


After a re-read of what I wrote I discovered much grammar to be corrected. In correcting I discovered much was also difficult to understand that I revised it for clarities sakes, I hope. My bad. [gammar still bad no doubt]


It is only when we get hungry spiritually that we are able to receive the Holy Spirit to make effectual the gift of God’s two pronged salvation and this by imputation, the quickening life of Jesus Christ, which places God's "Spirit DNA" within and immediately It has placed within, it rises up to the above and we are lifted into the domain where Jesus lives. [John 3:5 KJV]. This transition however, can only be for a newborn to cultivate by the imparted vision by the Holy Spirit. [cf Proverbs 29:18 KJV]. He knows that to live in the vision is to live in the reality of God with the actuality being the eventual result of his gracious gift, “so great salvation” per John 17:3.. Therefore, it is incumbent upon us who claim his name that upon our death and resurrection in Him, we learn how to reckon ourselves seated together in "heavenly places in Him" with the manifold wisdom of God lived out from us as a result, another impartation by His "Spirit DNA" enabling us to ‘see’ the more of John3;3,5 KJV; [cf Eph 2:6; 3:10 KJV].

Without the vision imparted to us, the result of the pursuit of our knowing the father, the newborn of him are wasted. They are of non-effect in the kingdom of God for a world in need of rectification where many of the redeemed are looking for answers from God; those whom they have been told loves them. They are going hungry.

Therefore, if God gives us something, we should seek Him further for its perfection in us because as our relationship with Him matures our allegiance to him becomes more acute that the challenge to our flesh becomes ineffectual, our new birth [DNA] from above being the enablement and sealant to God himself, that any challenge to our flesh [the Eve in us], our old man, our victory over it is most assured. Abandonment to God by the cross of Jesus Christ is the key that unlocks the door to the Throne of God..


All that Jesus is and all that Jesus has done is ours by simple child like faith. We receive all that there is when we first come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved by him. God does not have first or second class Christians. We are all complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

Cross Reference
August 21st, 2017, 07:35 AM
All that Jesus is and all that Jesus has done is ours by simple child like faith. We receive all that there is when we first come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved by him. God does not have first or second class Christians. We are all complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

Sez you when this is how the scriptures have it:

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. . . . And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." 1 John 2:1,3-6(KJV)
How 'bout commenting on that passage?

And here is the reason why:

"But as many [Babies] as received him, He gave power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name" [B]John 1:12 (KJV)

"For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons [NOT babies as you are given believe] unto glory , to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, Hebrews 2:10-11 (KJV)

If Jesus learned by suffering, why would you suppose we are not given to do the same with Him as our example in the how of it all?

Robert Pate
August 21st, 2017, 12:41 PM
Sez you when this is how the scriptures have it:

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. . . . And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." 1 John 2:1,3-6(KJV)
How 'bout commenting on that passage?

And here is the reason why:

"But as many [Babies] as received him, He gave power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name" [B]John 1:12 (KJV)

"For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons [NOT babies as you are given believe] unto glory , to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, Hebrews 2:10-11 (KJV)

If Jesus learned by suffering, why would you suppose we are not given to do the same with Him as our example in the how of it all?

There is only one baptism into Christ. We are all equal in Christ. We have all been made to drink of one spirit, 1 Corinthians, 12:12-26.

There are many babes in Christ, but none are any better or have more of the Spirit than others. This was a major problem in the Corinthian church. many were puffed up thinking that they were more righteous or spiritual than others. It is better known as spiritual arrogance. The Galatians had the same problem, Paul referred to them as super saints. I call it the Spirit of Phariasaism. It is alive and well in most organized churches.

Cross Reference
August 21st, 2017, 02:55 PM
There is only one baptism into Christ. We are all equal in Christ. We have all been made to drink of one spirit, 1 Corinthians, 12:12-26.
And is ony baptism BY Jesus Christ. That makes (2)

There are many babes in Christ,
I would hope I am having a discussion with one
but none are any better or have more of the Spirit than others.
Then why would Paul, the Pentecostal he was, have said: "Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way". 1 Corinthians 12:29-31 (KJV)

This was a major problem in the Corinthian church. many were puffed up thinking that they were more righteous or spiritual than others.
So you believe you know why, eh? And you would have had their church burned to the ground, I suppose?

It is better known as spiritual arrogance.
Better known by whom, Robert?

The Galatians had the same problem, Paul referred to them as super saints.I call it the Spirit of Phariasaism. It is alive and well in most organized churches.
I feel quite sure you would, Robert. Now who is revealing himself to be more arrogant than any you have accused?

Are you a Pentecostal, Robert? Have you been Spirit baptized as Jesus was? If not, how is it you feel qualified to speak of what He received before He began His ministry and commanding His disciples to follow suit before beginning theirs?

Robert Pate
August 21st, 2017, 04:26 PM
Then why would Paul, the Pentecostal he was, have said: "Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way". 1 Corinthians 12:29-31 (KJV)

So you believe you know why, eh? And you would have had their church burned to the ground, I suppose?

Better known by whom, Robert?

I feel quite sure you would, Robert. Now who is revealing himself to be more arrogant than any you have accused?

Are you a Pentecostal, Robert? Have you been Spirit baptized as Jesus was? If not, how is it you feel qualified to speak of what He received before He began His ministry and commanding His disciples to follow suit before beginning theirs?

All that come to Jesus Christ are baptized into Christ by one Spirit, They have been signed and sealed by the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13.

There is NOTHING that can separate them for the love of God that is in Jesus Christ, Romans 8:32-39.

To say that some are more spiritual or more saved than others is anti-Gospel. Jesus has provided salvation for everyone, not just someone.

All that do nothing more that to call on Christ to save them will be saved, Romans 10:13. All that profess with their mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in their heart that God has raised him from the dead will be saved, Romans 10:8:10.

Be careful who you exclude from the Kingdom of God. You may find that the prostitutes and the thieves will go in ahead of you,

Cross Reference
August 22nd, 2017, 07:08 AM
[QUOTE]All that come to Jesus Christ are baptized into Christ by one Spirit, They have been signed and sealed by the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13.

By you reconing, impossible.


There is NOTHING that can separate them for the love of God that is in Jesus Christ, Romans 8:32-39.

There are many "IF's" by Paul you are ignoring which make it all conditional.


To say that some are more spiritual or more saved than others is anti-Gospel. Jesus has provided salvation for everyone, not just someone.

But then it is not all about escaping hell, is it or maybe you don't know?


All that do nothing more that to call on Christ to save them will be saved, Romans 10:13. All that profess with their mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in their heart that God has raised him from the dead will be saved, Romans 10:8:10.

Yep. However, it all is predicated upon their sincerity, isn't it?



Be careful who you exclude from the Kingdom of God. You may find that the prostitutes and the thieves will go in ahead of you,

And you becareful to handle the word of God accurately and completely, leaving out nothing that might come against your faith in faith.

Robert Pate
August 22nd, 2017, 08:52 AM
[QUOTE=Robert Pate;5086460]

By you reconing, impossible.



There are many "IF's" by Paul you are ignoring which make it all conditional.



But then it is not all about escaping hell, is it or maybe you don't know?



Yep. However, it all is predicated upon their sincerity, isn't it?




And you becareful to handle the word of God accurately and completely, leaving out nothing that might come against your faith in faith.


We are not called to have "Faith in Faith". We are only called to have faith in Christ and his Gospel. I can tell that you are very religious. Your religion is subjective, it is all about you and your religion. Instead of being preoccupied with Christ and his Gospel, you are preoccupied with your Christian life. Which Paul said is sinful, 1 Timothy 1:15.

I am going to be doing a thread on this in the near future, the title will be "The Gospel and Christian Arrogance".

Cross Reference
August 22nd, 2017, 10:25 AM
[QUOTE=Cross Reference;5086826]


[QUOTE]We are not called to have "Faith in Faith".

So true. So why do you persist?


We are only called to have faith in Christ and his Gospel.

The Gospel according to who? Which doctrine? Calvin maybe?


I can tell that you are very religious.

I am not very religious in the sense you think. I am however, very relious about this you seem to have a problem with: ". . . this is life eternal, that they might "know" you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou have sent." John 17:3 (KJV)


Your religion is subjective, it is all about you and your religion. Instead of being preoccupied with Christ and his Gospel, you are preoccupied with your Christian life. Which Paul said is sinful, 1 Timothy 1:15.

What is subjective about John 17:3?? I just cited my ambition using John 17:3. Like I said, you seem to have a problem with anyone having an intimate relationship with God, preferring to mis-interpret its significance to a sinners prayer. Why do you want to do that? ANSWER: Pride! And you say I am "subjective". Go figure.



I am going to be doing a thread on this in the near future, the title will be "The Gospel and Christian Arrogance".

The arrogance part you are fully equipped. . . nothing else.

Robert Pate
August 22nd, 2017, 04:23 PM
[QUOTE=Robert Pate;5086876][QUOTE=Cross Reference;5086826]




So true. So why do you persist?



The Gospel according to who? Which doctrine? Calvin maybe?



I am not very religious in the sense you think. I am however, very relious about this you seem to have a problem with: ". . . this is life eternal, that they might "know" you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou have sent." John 17:3 (KJV)



What is subjective about John 17:3?? I just cited my ambition using John 17:3. Like I said, you seem to have a problem with anyone having an intimate relationship with God, preferring to mis-interpret its significance to a sinners prayer. Why do you want to do that? ANSWER: Pride! And you say I am "subjective". Go figure.




The arrogance part you are fully equipped. . . nothing else.


At one time I was just like you. I thought that it was all about me. This is what is taught in the organized church. They want to keep you under the law and blinded to the Gospel so that you will continue to give them your money.

I am still recovering from my surgery and on pain medication. I will come up with my article in a day or two.

Nanja
August 22nd, 2017, 06:09 PM
[QUOTE=Cross Reference;5086960][QUOTE=Robert Pate;5086876]


At one time I was just like you. I thought that it was all about me.


Yet that's exactly what you do, preaching a false gospel of works, something a person is required to do or perform in order to get himself saved... such as believing, receiving, calling upon the name of the Lord, etc.

However, the Apostle Paul preached that Salvation is according to the Power of God:


2 Tim. 1:8-9

8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began


So being Saved has nothing to do with our works, but it was God who Legally Saved His Elect from the penalty and condemnation of sin and its consequences Rom. 4:8.


But the natural man, such as yourself can't receive the True Gospel of God's Grace even though the scriptures consistently bear its Testimony, simply because you are unable to grasp that those Christ Saved were reconciled to God while being His enenies!

So you see, being Saved wasn't by anything they did or didn't do, but because they were already Saved while they were being God's enemies Rom. 5:10.


That's the Gospel of the Power of God!


1 Cor. 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


The prerequisite to Believing the Truth of God's Word is to be Chosen 2 Thes. 2:13 and in time being Born of the Spirit!


Rom. 8:8-9

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.

Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Cross Reference
August 23rd, 2017, 05:27 AM
[QUOTE=Cross Reference;5086960][QUOTE=Robert Pate;5086876]


At one time I was just like you. I thought that it was all about me.

I have NEVER thought it to be about me in the sense you are trying to make it be. Quit trying.

How 'bout instead reply to what I write and do it like someone who reads his Bible for understanding instead one who searches it for rebuttal quotes for personal advantage? Your opinion that has been shot full of holes and you not seeing them is astounding!

Cross Reference
August 23rd, 2017, 05:35 AM
[QUOTE=Robert Pate;5087160]
Yet that's exactly what you do, preaching a false gospel of works, something a person is required to do or perform in order to get himself saved... such as believing, receiving, calling upon the name of the Lord, etc.


However, the Apostle Paul preached that Salvation is according to the Power of God:


Nanja, Have you ever read the account of the passover in Exo 12? What were God's instructions for?

How 'bout posting the account with your annotations [opinion] explaining it all? Can you do that? Will you do that?

Nanja
August 23rd, 2017, 06:18 AM
[QUOTE=Nanja;5087236]



Nanja, Have you ever read the account of the passover in Exo 12? What were God's instructions for?

How 'bout posting the account with your annotations [opinion] explaining it all? Can you do that? Will you do that?


I quoted Pate, not you.

Discuss the scriptures in my post to Pate:



Yet that's exactly what you do, preaching a false gospel of works, something a person is required to do or perform in order to get himself saved... such as believing, receiving, calling upon the name of the Lord, etc.

However, the Apostle Paul preached that Salvation is according to the Power of God:


2 Tim. 1:8-9

8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began


So being Saved has nothing to do with our works, but it was God who Legally Saved His Elect from the penalty and condemnation of sin and its consequences Rom. 4:8.


But the natural man, such as yourself can't receive the True Gospel of God's Grace even though the scriptures consistently bear its Testimony, simply because you are unable to grasp that those Christ Saved were reconciled to God while being His enenies!

So you see, being Saved wasn't by anything they did or didn't do, but because they were already Saved while they were being God's enemies Rom. 5:10.


That's the Gospel of the Power of God!


1 Cor. 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


The prerequisite to Believing the Truth of God's Word is to be Chosen 2 Thes. 2:13 and in time being Born of the Spirit!


Rom. 8:8-9

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.

Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Cross Reference
August 23rd, 2017, 06:43 AM
[QUOTE=Cross Reference;5087379]


I quoted Pate, not you.

Discuss the scriptures in my post to Pate:

I read your scripture to him which is the reason for my inquiry. If you can't or choose not to, I will understand.

Nanja
August 23rd, 2017, 06:52 AM
[QUOTE=Nanja;5087396]

I read your scripture to him which is the reason for my inquiry. If you can't or choose not to, I will understand.


Apparently, you care not to discuss the scriptures in my post to Pate.

Not surprised, though.

Nanja
August 23rd, 2017, 06:54 AM
Cross Reference


I read your scripture to him which is the reason for my inquiry. If you can't or choose not to, I will understand.


Apparently, you care not to discuss the scriptures in my post to Pate.

Not surprised, though.

Cross Reference
August 23rd, 2017, 07:04 AM
Cross Reference



Apparently, you care not to discuss the scriptures in my post to Pate.

Not surprised, though.

Who wants to discuss cherry picked verses that are on their own and at best, incomplete. Of course you will never admit that which makes discussions with you virtually impossible. That is why I asked for your "opinion" re the "passover". I thought that would be something you couldn't screw up. My bad.

God's Truth
August 23rd, 2017, 09:43 AM
At one time I was just like you. I thought that it was all about me. This is what is taught in the organized church. They want to keep you under the law and blinded to the Gospel so that you will continue to give them your money.


If it is not about us individually, then tell me who is going to go to the lake of fire for you, if that is where you end up?

God's Truth
August 23rd, 2017, 10:09 AM
Yet that's exactly what you do, preaching a false gospel of works,

It is never ever wrong to obey God; in fact, if you don't obey Him you won't get saved.




something a person is required to do or perform in order to get himself saved... such as believing, receiving, calling upon the name of the Lord, etc.

Jesus saves us all on his own, and he tells us he saves those who believe and obey him.

Calvinists don't know why God saves those He saves.

Faith only doctrine is also false, it fails to admit that believing is obeying Jesus. The faith only crowd says that doing anything else Jesus says will make you condemned for a works salvation.

Both Calvinists and faith only teachers misunderstand the scriptures and they distort the truth.

Is it reasonable to teach we cannot believe and obey? No, it is not.

Paul was speaking about the works of the law no longer saving.

That means it no longer saves to clean oneself by doing the ceremonial works, for FAITH alone cleans us. That does NOT mean we do not have to do anything else that Jesus says to do, it merely means you do not have to do all the purification/ceremonial works.




However, the Apostle Paul preached that Salvation is according to the Power of God:


2 Tim. 1:8-9

8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began


So being Saved has nothing to do with our works, but it was God who Legally Saved His Elect from the penalty and condemnation of sin and its consequences Rom. 4:8.

Again, Paul is speaking about the ceremonial works of the law.

The Jews were called God's people because they did the ceremonial works, they cleaned themselves just to be able to go to the tent and later the temple, just to worship God, just to be where His Spirit was.

But since Jesus' shed blood on the cross, faith in his blood cleans us and circumcision no longer does; and, we become the temple.



But the natural man, such as yourself can't receive the True Gospel of God's Grace even though the scriptures consistently bear its Testimony, simply because you are unable to grasp that those Christ Saved were reconciled to God while being His enenies!

The scripture about a natural man can't receive the truth is because a natural man means a man who ONLY wants to please his flesh.
Someone who only wants to please their flesh does not want to hear about repenting of sins and giving up those pleasing things for God.



So you see, being Saved wasn't by anything they did or didn't do, but because they were already Saved while they were being God's enemies Rom. 5:10.

Then why not everyone saved?

You don't understand the scriptures about being saved while enemies. Paul is explaining to the Gentiles that God did not make them get circumcised first before He would save them. The Gentiles were enemies to God because they would not do the ceremonial work of circumcision.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,



That's the Gospel of the Power of God!


1 Cor. 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


The prerequisite to Believing the Truth of God's Word is to be Chosen 2 Thes. 2:13 and in time being Born of the Spirit!

God does NOT save unbelievers and those who hate Him. We are not saved before we are saved.




Rom. 8:8-9

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.

Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Those of the flesh is about those who only want to please their flesh. Not everyone only wants to please their flesh.

Cross Reference
August 23rd, 2017, 11:38 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Nanja

View Post
So you see, being Saved wasn't by anything they did or didn't do, but because they were already Saved while they were being God's enemies Rom. 5:10.

By that you are saying the Israelites didn't have to "do" God's instructions which was to mark their door lintels with blood. Interesting.

Robert Pate
August 23rd, 2017, 01:13 PM
If it is not about us individually, then tell me who is going to go to the lake of fire for you, if that is where you end up?

Before the foundation of the world God knew that you would need a savior. This is why he that knew no sin, agreed to come to this dark planet and become sin for you, so that you could become the righteousness of God in him, 2 Corinthians 5:21. In Jesus Christ you have been sanctified, justified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30 and now stand before God as perfect and complete in him, Colossians 2:10. This is God's great FREE GIFT of salvation that is available to all that do nothing more than call upon his name, Colossians 2:10.

Nanja
August 23rd, 2017, 03:06 PM
Cross Reference


By that you are saying the Israelites didn't have to "do" God's instructions which was to mark their door lintels with blood. Interesting.


A person's own act of obedience to God is not what Saves him.

But the Many Christ died for John 17:2 / Shed His Blood for Rom. 5:9 are made Righteous by His Perfect Obedience on their behalf.

Rom. 5:19b
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.


Rom. 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Robert Pate
August 23rd, 2017, 04:25 PM
Cross Reference




A person's own act of obedience to God is not what Saves him.

But the Many Christ died for John 17:2 / Shed His Blood for Rom. 5:9 are made Righteous by His Perfect Obedience on their behalf.

Rom. 5:19b
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.


Rom. 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

The Bible repeatedly presents salvation as a FREE GIFT for God. This means that salvation cannot be earned, deserved or imposed. A gift can only be received or rejected. Nanja cannot accept this biblical truth. She wants to believe that God imposes salvation and that he only imposes it on some, which would make God unjust. Calvinism is self defeating. It is NOT possible to believe that God is unjust and be saved. By her own words she is condemned.

Nanja
August 23rd, 2017, 05:13 PM
The Bible repeatedly presents salvation as a FREE GIFT for God.


Salvation is not a free gift for God; but a free from God to all His Elect!

And Salvation cannot be received by any person's own works of the flesh he does with his imaginary freewill.

That's strictly unbiblical Gal. 2:16; Rom. 8:8!


But Salvation is Given to all God's Elect because they are the only portion of humanity He has Chosen In Union with Christ to have remission / forgiveness of sins according to the riches of His Grace Eph. 1:4-7!


Rom 4:6-8

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


Now I know you are unable to comprehend these Truths John 8:47!

1 Cor 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Cross Reference
August 24th, 2017, 06:37 AM
Salvation is not a free gift for God; but a free from God to all His Elect!

And Salvation cannot be received by any person's own works of the flesh he does with his imaginary freewill.

Then the first passover could never have happened! Wake UP!

Robert Pate
August 24th, 2017, 06:57 AM
Salvation is not a free gift for God; but a free from God to all His Elect!

And Salvation cannot be received by any person's own works of the flesh he does with his imaginary freewill.

That's strictly unbiblical Gal. 2:16; Rom. 8:8!


But Salvation is Given to all God's Elect because they are the only portion of humanity He has Chosen In Union with Christ to have remission / forgiveness of sins according to the riches of His Grace Eph. 1:4-7!


Rom 4:6-8

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


Now I know you are unable to comprehend these Truths John 8:47!

1 Cor 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


There are serious consequences to believing that God is unjust. The doctrine of predestination is a declaration that God is unjust. You cannot believe that God predestinates souls that have not even been born to hell and not believe that God is unjust.

All through the Old Testament and into the New Testament we are taught that salvation is by grace through faith. This means that we believe that God is righteous and that we can trust in him believe in him. It is not humanly possible to love and trust in the God of Calvinism. The God of Calvinism is an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant that delight in sending people to hell. You have already condemned yourself to hell because of what you believe in him.