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Robert Pate
June 26th, 2017, 12:06 PM
This was taken from the parable about the strait gate and the broad way.

"Enter in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many there be which go that way. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads to life, and few there be that find it" Matthew 7:13,14.

What is the broad way that leads to destruction and the strait gate that leads to life?

The broad way is the way of religion. The way must be broad to accommodate the multitudes that have chosen to go that way. Religion is the way of man. It is man centered. Religion is man's effort to please a holy God by what he has done or by what he has become. "Many will say to me on that day (judgment day) Lord, Lord, didn't we..., Matthew 7:22. Lord, Lord, didn't I become a Calvinist? Lord, Lord, didn't I join the Catholic church? They thought that salvation was all about them and what they did or what they had become.

The strait gate is Jesus Christ and his Gospel. Few there be that find it, because few there be that seek it. Truth must be sought. It is only given to those that seek it and receive it. When the Gospel is heard and believed, God gives his Holy Spirit to those that hear and believe it, Galatians 3:2. The Holy Spirit is also known as the "Spirit of Truth" John 14:17. It is the work of the Spirit to magnify and glorify the work of Christ, John 16:13-15.

Truster
June 26th, 2017, 01:50 PM
"The strait gate is Jesus Christ and His gospel", complete and utter nonsense. You have never found the strait gate.

Ask Mr. Religion
June 26th, 2017, 01:51 PM
This was taken from the parable about the strait gate and the broad way.

"Enter in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many there be which go that way. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads to life, and few there be that find it" Matthew 7:13,14.

... Few there be that find it, because few there be that seek it...

An often used, but misunderstood and cast as a shibboleth for anyone who thinks he or she has some special knowledge that the rest of us better pay attention to; all contrary to Rev. 7:9, of course. :AMR:

We should avoid two errors: first, that all men shall be saved; second, that only few men will be saved. The preponderance of Scripture teaches the universal spread and acceptance of the Gospel at some point in history. Folks with this view appeal to Matt. 7:13, 14; 20:16; 22:14; Luke 13:23, 24. The passages in Matthew 7 and Luke 13 are parallel passages and already contain much of the answer in their contexts.

Matthew, moreso than Luke, emphasizes the wideness of the way to destruction; Luke mentions only the narrow, or strait, gate. This is a warning contrasting Christianity with other approaches to God. The word translated "broad" in Matthew 7:13 means "spacious" or "roomy" and carries with it the idea of living comfortably and without troubles. The words "narrow" and "wide," describing the gates are relative terms.

In other words, these only derive meaning in contrast to one another. There are two paths, and the two gates, or doors, standing at the head of each, the straight and narrow and the comfortable and wide. In Luke's account, he uses the same word for "gate," as John uses in 10:9 to give a metaphorical description of Jesus, "door." So, Jesus is contrasting salvation through him with other paths of salvation. It is through much tribulation we enter the kingdom of God (Acts 14:22).

There are two other contrasting terms used in these passages, "many" and "few." Again, these are relative terms and give no real information as to the actual number of those saved. In Luke's account (which is the chronological Gospel, see Luke 1:3 and forward, he writes "in order"), this question is raised immediately after we are told that Jesus taught that the kingdom of God would fill the earth. Yet, at the time Jesus spoke, the church was still a "little flock" (Luke 12:32) waiting to receive the kingdom. In Matthew, the warning has been placed in a block of teaching expressing the difficulty of being saved and the ease with which men deceive themselves in this matter. The warning is for men to avoid taking the path that attracts the most and easiest attention of men.

At the time that Jesus spoke these words, it was historically true that neither had most of mankind been saved nor would most of the Jews to whom he preached then be saved. However, it shall always remain true that the preaching of Christianity will be wider than its reception.

The passages in Matt. 20:16 and 22:14 both rely upon the previous teaching. However, in these passages, there is an explanation offered. "Many" are called but "few are "chosen." The difference between the many and the few is that between calling and election (no matter how you specifically view "election"). The call of the Gospel is always wider than its reception. Hence, the contrast.

The reason is because not all who hear the outward preaching are elect of God. The Greek literally reads, "many are called, but few are elect." Throughout most of history, the contrast between the "many" and the "few" has been numerically significant. Yet, the contrast is what we might express by the words "more" or "less." More people are called, or bidden, less people are chosen.

If you consider that there are more people alive today than throughout all of human history and, presumably, this will continue to be the case during the millennium, then, if most people living during the millennium are saved, most people in history will be too. One thousand years of ever increasing mankind numerically being brought to faith is layering of twenty generations of men, each larger than the previous, being redeemed. Thus, in heaven, the number of the elect is a number no man can number (cf. Rev. 7:9).

Even during the millennium, though the vast majority of men will be saved, the hearing of the Gospel will still be wider than the election of God. The difference is that during the millennium, though fewer will be elect than hear the Gospel, the number of the elect will be greatly increased so as to fill all the world. "The earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea" (i.e., everywhere).

More always hear than are saved. This is not, however, a concept that necessitates thinking the final number of the saved will be few. Less will be saved than heard the Gospel but, in the end, the overarching theme of Scripture is that Christ came to save the world not just a few scattered individuals. Just as all die in Adam, so all are made alive in Christ. Paul's point challenges credulity if he meant by "all" a number so significantly smaller than the number of people who ever shall exist that the mass of mankind is reprobate and counted for naught. It is clear the tree of humanity is to be pruned of its diseased branches but pruning does not entail cutting off the vast majority of the branches of a tree.

The divine intention is stated throughout Scripture to save innumerable multitudes. Christ did not die for each and every individual of mankind but He most certainly evidently died for a large enough portion of mankind that it could be considered the "all," "the whole world," "all men," etc. While it is true less will be saved than hear, or even profess the true religion, that does not mean the number of saved will be small or even smaller than the total number of the lost.

For example, it appears that no more than one third of the angels fell (Rev. 12:4 and following; it may be less, this may not refer to the whole). Should we suppose that God, who made man in his own image, and the Son of God, who took upon himself not the nature of angels but the seed of Abraham, should have purposed to redeem a lesser percentage (one-third) of men than angels were kept from apostasy? This seems to misrepresent the claim that God's redemption of men is more exalted than his upholding and confirming of the elect angels (1 Pet. 1:12 and forward).

AMR

Robert Pate
June 26th, 2017, 02:02 PM
An often used, but misunderstood and cast as a shibboleth for anyone who thinks he or she has some special knowledge that the rest of us better pay attention to; all contrary to Rev. 7:9, of course. :AMR:

We should avoid two errors: first, that all men shall be saved; second, that only few men will be saved. The preponderance of Scripture teaches the universal spread and acceptance of the Gospel at some point in history. Folks with this view appeal to Matt. 7:13, 14; 20:16; 22:14; Luke 13:23, 24. The passages in Matthew 7 and Luke 13 are parallel passages and already contain much of the answer in their contexts.

Matthew, moreso than Luke, emphasizes the wideness of the way to destruction; Luke mentions only the narrow, or strait, gate. This is a warning contrasting Christianity with other approaches to God. The word translated "broad" in Matthew 7:13 means "spacious" or "roomy" and carries with it the idea of living comfortably and without troubles. The words "narrow" and "wide," describing the gates are relative terms.

In other words, these only derive meaning in contrast to one another. There are two paths, and the two gates, or doors, standing at the head of each, the straight and narrow and the comfortable and wide. In Luke's account, he uses the same word for "gate," as John uses in 10:9 to give a metaphorical description of Jesus, "door." So, Jesus is contrasting salvation through him with other paths of salvation. It is through much tribulation we enter the kingdom of God (Acts 14:22).

There are two other contrasting terms used in these passages, "many" and "few." Again, these are relative terms and give no real information as to the actual number of those saved. In Luke's account (which is the chronological Gospel, see Luke 1:3 and forward, he writes "in order"), this question is raised immediately after we are told that Jesus taught that the kingdom of God would fill the earth. Yet, at the time Jesus spoke, the church was still a "little flock" (Luke 12:32) waiting to receive the kingdom. In Matthew, the warning has been placed in a block of teaching expressing the difficulty of being saved and the ease with which men deceive themselves in this matter. The warning is for men to avoid taking the path that attracts the most and easiest attention of men.

At the time that Jesus spoke these words, it was historically true that neither had most of mankind been saved nor would most of the Jews to whom he preached then be saved. However, it shall always remain true that the preaching of Christianity will be wider than its reception.

The passages in Matt. 20:16 and 22:14 both rely upon the previous teaching. However, in these passages, there is an explanation offered. "Many" are called but "few are "chosen." The difference between the many and the few is that between calling and election (no matter how you specifically view "election"). The call of the Gospel is always wider than its reception. Hence, the contrast.

The reason is because not all who hear the outward preaching are elect of God. The Greek literally reads, "many are called, but few are elect." Throughout most of history, the contrast between the "many" and the "few" has been numerically significant. Yet, the contrast is what we might express by the words "more" or "less." More people are called, or bidden, less people are chosen.

If you consider that there are more people alive today than throughout all of human history and, presumably, this will continue to be the case during the millennium, then, if most people living during the millennium are saved, most people in history will be too. One thousand years of ever increasing mankind numerically being brought to faith is layering of twenty generations of men, each larger than the previous, being redeemed. Thus, in heaven, the number of the elect is a number no man can number (cf. Rev. 7:9).

Even during the millennium, though the vast majority of men will be saved, the hearing of the Gospel will still be wider than the election of God. The difference is that during the millennium, though fewer will be elect than hear the Gospel, the number of the elect will be greatly increased so as to fill all the world. "The earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea" (i.e., everywhere).

More always hear than are saved. This is not, however, a concept that necessitates thinking the final number of the saved will be few. Less will be saved than heard the Gospel but, in the end, the overarching theme of Scripture is that Christ came to save the world not just a few scattered individuals. Just as all die in Adam, so all are made alive in Christ. Paul's point challenges credulity if he meant by "all" a number so significantly smaller than the number of people who ever shall exist that the mass of mankind is reprobate and counted for naught. It is clear the tree of humanity is to be pruned of its diseased branches but pruning does not entail cutting off the vast majority of the branches of a tree.

The divine intention is stated throughout Scripture to save innumerable multitudes. Christ did not die for each and every individual of mankind but He most certainly evidently died for a large enough portion of mankind that it could be considered the "all," "the whole world," "all men," etc. While it is true less will be saved than hear, or even profess the true religion, that does not mean the number of saved will be small or even smaller than the total number of the lost.

For example, it appears that no more than one third of the angels fell (Rev. 12:4 and following; it may be less, this may not refer to the whole). Should we suppose that God, who made man in his own image, and the Son of God, who took upon himself not the nature of angels but the seed of Abraham, should have purposed to redeem a lesser percentage (one-third) of men than angels were kept from apostasy? This seems to misrepresent the claim that God's redemption of men is more exalted than his upholding and confirming of the elect angels (1 Pet. 1:12 and forward).

AMR


What you believe is in conflict with the Gospel, justification by faith, the grace of God, that Jesus is the savior of the world, the Bible, and is in conflict with God himself.

Ask Mr. Religion
June 26th, 2017, 02:15 PM
What you believe is in conflict with the Gospel, justification by faith, the grace of God, that Jesus is the savior of the world, the Bible, and is in conflict with God himself.
Robert,

I see you have no real intention of discussing how your OP, juxtaposed with a more thorough analysis of the passage in question, makes any sense at all.

Just keep up your usual blogging of redundant "articles", Robert:

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?125442-How-2-Cor-5-19-teaches-limited-atonement-!&p=5036088&viewfull=1#post5036088

Why did you create the OP, yet another of your many new and regularly redundant threads?
To actually discuss your post?
To merely blog an article?
To call attention to yourself?
To feed your anti-all things opposed to your views hobby horse?
Do you see yourself as some sort of oracle?

:idunno:

AMR

Truster
June 26th, 2017, 03:02 PM
"The strait gate is Jesus Christ and His gospel", complete and utter nonsense. You have never found the strait gate.

For as long as I can remember you've been banging on about free-will and man's ability the have faith in the gospel and Jesus. Now you are saying that the strait gate is Jesus and the gospel and it is so well hidden few there be that find it.

Twist your way out of this one Pate...

Robert Pate
June 26th, 2017, 03:48 PM
For as long as I can remember you've been banging on about free-will and man's ability the have faith in the gospel and Jesus. Now you are saying that the strait gate is Jesus and the gospel and it is so well hidden few there be that find it.

Twist your way out of this one Pate...

God is just, merciful and righteous in all of his dealings with fallen man. To believe otherwise is to pervert God's word.

As long as you believe that God saves some and damns the rest to hell, you will never find him who is the way, the truth and the life. John 14:6. What you have found is not the truth, but a false doctrine.

fishrovmen
June 26th, 2017, 03:52 PM
Why did you create the OP, yet another of your many new and regularly redundant threads?
To actually discuss your post?
To merely blog an article?
To call attention to yourself?
To feed your anti-all things opposed to your views hobby horse?
Do you see yourself as some sort of oracle?

:idunno:

AMR
Don't forget increasing post count, trying to get back to TOL legend status which is far more important than correcting his own heresies and unbiblical theories and ideas.

Truster
June 26th, 2017, 04:00 PM
God is just, merciful and righteous in all of his dealings with fallen man. To believe otherwise is to pervert God's word.

As long as you believe that God saves some and damns the rest to hell, you will never find him who is the way, the truth and the life. John 14:6. What you have found is not the truth, but a false doctrine.

Going around in circles again pate.

Why does Messiah make the strait gate difficult to find if all men have been redeemed and have access to eternal life by free-will?

Robert Pate
June 26th, 2017, 04:16 PM
Going around in circles again pate.

Why does Messiah make the strait gate difficult to find if all men have been redeemed and have access to eternal life by free-will?

Few there be that find it, because few there be that want it. What you want is religion, which is about you.

Robert Pate
June 26th, 2017, 04:19 PM
Don't forget increasing post count, trying to get back to TOL legend status which is far more important than correcting his own heresies and unbiblical theories and ideas.

Most of my threads are doing very well. There are some people on this Forum that are hungry for the truth.

Truster
June 26th, 2017, 04:23 PM
Few there be that find it, because few there be that want it. What you want is religion, which is about you.

Answer the question. Why, if all are redeemed, does Messiah hide the strait gate from so many? Why does He shed His precious blood for people He's hides the strait gate from?

Robert Pate
June 26th, 2017, 04:50 PM
Answer the question. Why, if all are redeemed does Messiah hide the strait gate from so many? Why does He shed His precious blood for people He's hides the strait gate from?

What makes you think that something is hid? Nothing is hid. There are churches and crosses everywhere. I don't know of anyone that does not believe that Jesus died on the cross for sins. Jesus told the disciples to go into all of the world and preach the Gospel to EVERYONE. The problem is that they hear, but they do not believe.

glorydaz
June 26th, 2017, 04:50 PM
Answer the question. Why, if all are redeemed does Messiah hide the strait gate from so many? Why does He shed His precious blood for people He's hides the strait gate from?

Messiah does NOT hide the strait gate. If you have a verse present it. :Popcorn:

Truster
June 26th, 2017, 04:54 PM
What makes you think that something is hid? Nothing is hid. There are churches and crosses everywhere. I don't know of anyone that does not believe that Jesus died on the cross for sins. Jesus told the disciples to go into all of the world and preach the Gospel to EVERYONE. The problem is that they hear but they do not believe.

"few there be that find it" means it is difficult to find and that in itself denotes hidden from sight/difficult to find, hidden away.

You say nothing is hid? Try 2 Corinthians 4:3 and you are perishing pate.

Zeke
June 26th, 2017, 05:44 PM
Yet the carnal mind (theology) thinks its on the narrow path but disregards 2Cor 3:6 and Luke 17:20-21 for this worlds elitist dogma.

Robert Pate
July 1st, 2017, 12:34 PM
"few there be that find it" means it is difficult to find and that in itself denotes hidden from sight/difficult to find, hidden away.

You say nothing is hid? Try 2 Corinthians 4:3 and you are perishing pate.


The Gospel is hid to those that are lost because they will not come to the light, John 3:19-21. God has done all that he can do for the salvation of fallen man. The ball is now in humanities court.

CherubRam
July 1st, 2017, 01:03 PM
Messiah does NOT hide the strait gate. If you have a verse present it. :Popcorn:

It is too bad that Trinitarians ignore the foot notes of study bibles.

CherubRam
July 1st, 2017, 01:05 PM
Lies are broad and all encompassing, and the truth is narrowly defined.

CherubRam
July 1st, 2017, 01:08 PM
The bible does not say the Sabbath was given to the Jews, it says the Sabbath was given to mankind.

CherubRam
July 1st, 2017, 01:12 PM
The name "Jesus" is a recent invention. Their is no one in heaven by that name. The Messiah's name is Yahshua. God's name is Yahwah. The e vowel was introduced into Hebrew in the 2nd century AD.

CherubRam
July 1st, 2017, 01:19 PM
The Hebrew word "sheol" always means "grave." It never means "Hell." Hell is a Pagan concept introduced into Christianity by the Catholics.

Hell is the serpent doctrine of life immortal in a place of eternal torture.

Genesis 3:4
“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.

CherubRam
July 1st, 2017, 01:22 PM
Easter is a Pagan goddess.

CherubRam
July 1st, 2017, 01:24 PM
The Pagan's worshiped Satan on Sunday as a being of light.

CherubRam
July 1st, 2017, 01:26 PM
The word "cross" is not biblical. Christ was hung on a stake. A cross is also a Pagan symbol.

jamie
July 1st, 2017, 01:50 PM
The word "cross" is not biblical. Christ was hung on a stake. A cross is also a Pagan symbol.


What was the letter tav in early Hebrew?

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/alphabet_chart.html

jamie
July 1st, 2017, 02:00 PM
The name "Jesus" is a recent invention. Their is no one in heaven by that name. The Messiah's name is Yahshua. God's name is Yahwah. The e vowel was introduced into Hebrew in the 2nd century AD.


There is no solid proof that the NT was written in Hebrew. Some people claim it was written in Greek as was the Septuagint.

Jesus is an English word transliterated from the Greek iesous.

I use an English version of the NT which uses the name Jesus. It works for me.

Robert Pate
July 1st, 2017, 02:24 PM
The Hebrew word "sheol" always means "grave." It never means "Hell." Hell is a Pagan concept introduced into Christianity by the Catholics.

Hell is the serpent doctrine of life immortal in a place of eternal torture.

Genesis 3:4
“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.


Where is the place where there weeping and gnashing of teeth, Matthew 8:12.

Lazy afternoon
July 1st, 2017, 05:06 PM
Where is the place where there weeping and gnashing of teeth, Matthew 8:12.

Some time for the wicked before the lake of fire.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell (grave) delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

LA

Lazy afternoon
July 1st, 2017, 05:13 PM
There is no solid proof that the NT was written in Hebrew. Some people claim it was written in Greek as was the Septuagint.

Jesus is an English word transliterated from the Greek iesous.

I use an English version of the NT which uses the name Jesus. It works for me.

True--

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mat 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Mat 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
Mat 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Jesus is the same name as is interpreted Joshua, and it means salvation.

Jesus answers to that name, but if one prefers Yashua then English speaking people do not know who is being spoken of.

LA

oatmeal
July 1st, 2017, 05:24 PM
This was taken from the parable about the strait gate and the broad way.

"Enter in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many there be which go that way. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads to life, and few there be that find it" Matthew 7:13,14.

What is the broad way that leads to destruction and the strait gate that leads to life?

The broad way is the way of religion. The way must be broad to accommodate the multitudes that have chosen to go that way. Religion is the way of man. It is man centered. Religion is man's effort to please a holy God by what he has done or by what he has become. "Many will say to me on that day (judgment day) Lord, Lord, didn't we..., Matthew 7:22. Lord, Lord, didn't I become a Calvinist? Lord, Lord, didn't I join the Catholic church? They thought that salvation was all about them and what they did or what they had become.

The strait gate is Jesus Christ and his Gospel. Few there be that find it, because few there be that seek it. Truth must be sought. It is only given to those that seek it and receive it. When the Gospel is heard and believed, God gives his Holy Spirit to those that hear and believe it, Galatians 3:2. The Holy Spirit is also known as the "Spirit of Truth" John 14:17. It is the work of the Spirit to magnify and glorify the work of Christ, John 16:13-15.

You are onto something.

Jesus Christ is the way to the Father.

John 14:6

He did not stray from doing his Father's will

He set the example for us to follow.

Getting born again/saved is the way for those in this age of grace.

There are only two requirements to receive the gift of salvation but they are very specific. Romans 10:9

Romans 10:9 says nothing about "accepting Jesus as your savior"

We are to confess with our mouth the lord Jesus, not the savior Jesus.

We are to believe that God raised him from the dead.

That is narrow, that is specific.

jamie
July 1st, 2017, 05:41 PM
Jesus answers to that name, but if one prefers Yashua then English speaking people do not know who is being spoken of.


Yes, I suspect that when Paul spoke to Greek assemblies he spoke Greek so the congregation could follow along with their Greek bibles.

CherubRam
July 1st, 2017, 08:29 PM
Where is the place where there weeping and gnashing of teeth, Matthew 8:12.
The weeping and gnashing of teeth will be at the end of the Judgement on earth.

CherubRam
July 1st, 2017, 08:35 PM
What was the letter tav in early Hebrew?

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/alphabet_chart.html

The Hebrew (letter/word) TAV means "mark." The Greek TAU means T.

CherubRam
July 1st, 2017, 08:38 PM
There is no solid proof that the NT was written in Hebrew. Some people claim it was written in Greek as was the Septuagint.

Jesus is an English word transliterated from the Greek iesous.

I use an English version of the NT which uses the name Jesus. It works for me.
The New Testament was written in different languages, Hebrew being one.

Jesus: The English form "Jesus" was not seen nor spoken until AFTER the year 1525...
when Sir William Tyndale -A Protestant Reformer from Oxford, England - INVENTED IT!

jamie
July 1st, 2017, 09:50 PM
The Hebrew (letter/word) TAV means "mark." The Greek TAU means T.


The early Hebrew was crossed sticks.

jamie
July 1st, 2017, 10:00 PM
Jesus: The English form "Jesus" was not seen nor spoken until AFTER the year 1525...
when Sir William Tyndale -A Protestant Reformer from Oxford, England - INVENTED IT!


Yes, the word Jesus was a good transliteration of the Greek.

I tend to think Paul spoke Greek to Greeks, Iesous Christos.

Robert Pate
July 2nd, 2017, 10:01 AM
The New Testament was written in different languages, Hebrew being one.

Jesus: The English form "Jesus" was not seen nor spoken until AFTER the year 1525...
when Sir William Tyndale -A Protestant Reformer from Oxford, England - INVENTED IT!

The common name is Jesus. When you use any other name, people will not understand what you are talking about.

CherubRam
July 2nd, 2017, 04:46 PM
The common name is Jesus. When you use any other name, people will not understand what you are talking about.

You are asking me to believe that you and others do not know the different names Christ is called.

Robert Pate
July 2nd, 2017, 05:22 PM
You are asking me to believe that you and others do not know the different names Christ is called.

What I am saying is that if you use any other name than Jesus, people will not know what you are talking about. His biblical name is Jesus. That is what you should use.

CherubRam
July 2nd, 2017, 07:41 PM
What I am saying is that if you use any other name than Jesus, people will not know what you are talking about. His biblical name is Jesus. That is what you should use.

Why not use his real name "Yahshua?"

jsanford108
July 2nd, 2017, 08:52 PM
I have to agree with Pate here for a simple reason. Once one begins to interchange terms/names, it goes down an unstable path. Not saying it is always dangerous, but often, such cases lead to a divergence from Scripture. For instance, the JW's do this. Mormons do this.

Why not stick to what is plainly written, versus going and finding various alternate, though accurate (at least, initially), names and labels? If you wish to utilize Greek, Hebrew, or Latin nomenclature in discussions, in order to educate or illustrate a point, that is great; but why not quote what is written, then provide clarification?

I just find such replacing and interchanging trivial and petty. And as stated before, it leads to a more lenient tendency for other interchanging scenarios.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

CherubRam
July 2nd, 2017, 09:40 PM
I have to agree with Pate here for a simple reason. Once one begins to interchange terms/names, it goes down an unstable path. Not saying it is always dangerous, but often, such cases lead to a divergence from Scripture. For instance, the JW's do this. Mormons do this.

Why not stick to what is plainly written, versus going and finding various alternate, though accurate (at least, initially), names and labels? If you wish to utilize Greek, Hebrew, or Latin nomenclature in discussions, in order to educate or illustrate a point, that is great; but why not quote what is written, then provide clarification?

I just find such replacing and interchanging trivial and petty. And as stated before, it leads to a more lenient tendency for other interchanging scenarios.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

The name Jesus is not in the original bible text.

jsanford108
July 3rd, 2017, 08:12 AM
The name Jesus is not in the original bible text.

Neither is the word "love" or "mercy," since they are English words. You missed the point.

If you speak English, utilize the English translations. It doesn't make one look any more intellectual when they start replacing names in a simple quote. For example,
"Jesus wept." Vs "Y'shua wept."

I can utilize Greek, Latin, Hebrew, or Aramic to make my point, but my initial quote does not profit from interchanging terms/names.

CherubRam
July 3rd, 2017, 09:21 AM
Neither is the word "love" or "mercy," since they are English words. You missed the point.

If you speak English, utilize the English translations. It doesn't make one look any more intellectual when they start replacing names in a simple quote. For example,
"Jesus wept." Vs "Y'shua wept."

I can utilize Greek, Latin, Hebrew, or Aramic to make my point, but my initial quote does not profit from interchanging terms/names.

Love and mercy are in the original text of the bible, the translation Jesus is not. Christ name in English is Yahshua. The name "Jesus" is alien to scriptures and English.

jamie
July 3rd, 2017, 12:05 PM
The name Jesus is not in the original bible text.


Since the NT was not written in Hebrew neither is Yahshua.

His biblical name is Iesous not Yahshua.

In English versions Iesous is translated Jesus.

jamie
July 3rd, 2017, 12:07 PM
The name "Jesus" is alien to scriptures and English.


So is Yahshua and its many variations.

God's Truth
July 3rd, 2017, 12:12 PM
This was taken from the parable about the strait gate and the broad way.

"Enter in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many there be which go that way. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads to life, and few there be that find it" Matthew 7:13,14.

What is the broad way that leads to destruction and the strait gate that leads to life?

The broad way is the way of religion. The way must be broad to accommodate the multitudes that have chosen to go that way. Religion is the way of man. It is man centered. Religion is man's effort to please a holy God by what he has done or by what he has become. "Many will say to me on that day (judgment day) Lord, Lord, didn't we..., Matthew 7:22. Lord, Lord, didn't I become a Calvinist? Lord, Lord, didn't I join the Catholic church? They thought that salvation was all about them and what they did or what they had become.

The strait gate is Jesus Christ and his Gospel. Few there be that find it, because few there be that seek it. Truth must be sought. It is only given to those that seek it and receive it. When the Gospel is heard and believed, God gives his Holy Spirit to those that hear and believe it, Galatians 3:2. The Holy Spirit is also known as the "Spirit of Truth" John 14:17. It is the work of the Spirit to magnify and glorify the work of Christ, John 16:13-15.

You can't find it unless you obey the Way.

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way...

Robert Pate
July 3rd, 2017, 01:13 PM
You can't find it unless you obey the Way.

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way...

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, no one can come to the father but by him, John 14:6.

I guess that leaves you out, because you think that it is by your obedience.

jsanford108
July 3rd, 2017, 01:29 PM
Love and mercy are in the original text of the bible, the translation Jesus is not. Christ name in English is Yahshua. The name "Jesus" is alien to scriptures and English.

"Jesus" is the English translation.

[The proper name Jesus /ˈdʒiːzəs/ used in the English language, originates from the Latin form of the Greek name Ἰησοῦς (Iēsous), a rendition of the Hebrew Yeshua (ישוע), also having the variants Joshua or Jeshua.] -Source: Encyclopedia Briticana, 2008


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Truster
July 3rd, 2017, 01:30 PM
"Jesus" is the English translation.

[The proper name Jesus /ˈdʒiːzəs/ used in the English language, originates from the Latin form of the Greek name Ἰησοῦς (Iēsous), a rendition of the Hebrew Yeshua (ישוע), also having the variants Joshua or Jeshua.] -Source: Encyclopedia Briticana, 2008


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You go to a secular encyclopedia for spiritual insight?

jsanford108
July 3rd, 2017, 01:38 PM
You go to a secular encyclopedia for spiritual insight?

Vocabulary is not something taught in Scripture, is it? I didn't think so.

Truster
July 3rd, 2017, 01:44 PM
Vocabulary is not something taught in Scripture, is it? I didn't think so.

Are you really that stupid?

fishrovmen
July 3rd, 2017, 03:56 PM
There are some people on this Forum that are hungry for the truth.

And all you have is fast food..how sad

CherubRam
July 3rd, 2017, 06:46 PM
"Jesus" is the English translation.

[The proper name Jesus /ˈdʒiːzəs/ used in the English language, originates from the Latin form of the Greek name Ἰησοῦς (Iēsous), a rendition of the Hebrew Yeshua (ישוע), also having the variants Joshua or Jeshua.] -Source: Encyclopedia Briticana, 2008


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Because Hebrews dropped their 'ayins', to keep from saying God's name, hence we have "y'shua." Also spelled Yeshua, for which we have in Greek, "Iēsous" and "Isus." These are corruptions of the names that begin with "Yah."

By not pronouncing his name correctly this piece of scripture would go unnoticed.

Exodus 23:21
Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him.
Yah / wah and Yah / Shua

John 17:11
I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.
Yah / Shua

Isaiah 52:6
Therefore my people will know my name; therefore in that day they will know that it is I who foretold it. Yes, it is I.”
Yahwah foretold it.

Proverbs 30:4
Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Whose hands have gathered up the wind? Who has wrapped up the waters in a cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is the name of his son? Surely you know!
Yahshua is Yahwah's son.

John 10
36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?
Yahshua said he is a god.

I do not hold to the tradition of Jews and Christians deforming or mispronouncing God's name. It has been a long standing tradition for Jews and Christians to mislead people in knowing God's name.

But because the Galileans always dropped their 'ayins', hence "y'shu. Meaning "may his name be blotted out" (from the scroll of life). According to a Jewish proverb, the worst death is eternal anonymity, for which in the Talmud many Jewish people use as an acronym meaning “may his name be blotted out”.

The name "Jesus" is an insult to Christ, that is why I do not like to use it.

God's Truth
July 3rd, 2017, 07:29 PM
Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, no one can come to the father but by him, John 14:6.

I guess that leaves you out, because you think that it is by your obedience.

You come to the Father by Jesus---by doing what Jesus says.

Robert Pate
July 3rd, 2017, 09:09 PM
You come to the Father by Jesus---by doing what Jesus says.

Jesus says that you are a sinner in need of a savior.

jamie
July 3rd, 2017, 09:31 PM
John 17:11
I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.


The word "name" refers to his authority no matter what you call him.

To call on the name of the Lord is to call on his authority.

There is no other authority for salvation.

patrick jane
July 3rd, 2017, 09:42 PM
The word "name" refers to his authority no matter what you call him.

To call on the name of the Lord is to call on his authority.

There is no other authority for salvation.Few there be, jamie

jamie
July 3rd, 2017, 09:46 PM
Few there be, jamie


Yes, not many are needed for the kingdom.

Many are called to come, but most are weeded out.

Robert Pate
July 4th, 2017, 09:16 AM
Yes, not many are needed for the kingdom.

Many are called to come, but most are weeded out.

No one is excluded. They exclude themselves.